嘉宾系列 | Matt Walker 博士：用睡眠提升学习、创造力与记忆

Andrew Huberman：欢迎收听 Huberman Lab 嘉宾系列。在这个系列中，我会与专家嘉宾讨论科学以及基于科学的日常生活工具。我是 Andrew Huberman，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学与眼科学教授。本期是六集睡眠系列的第四集，嘉宾是睡眠专家 Matthew Walker 博士。今天我们讨论睡眠与学习，以及睡眠和特定睡眠阶段对创造力与记忆的影响；还会讨论相对于不同学习时段，应该在什么时候睡、睡多久，以及小睡在巩固待学习信息中的作用。我们会介绍睡眠与认知学习、运动学习相关的科学和实践方案，也会解释睡眠编码记忆的机制。和本系列前几集一样，本期既介绍睡眠生物学，也介绍可以用来改善学习、记忆和创造力的实用方案。开始前我想强调，这档播客与我在斯坦福的教学和研究工作彼此独立，但它体现了我向大众免费提供科学及科学相关工具信息的愿望。秉持这一目标，我要感谢本期赞助商。第一家是 Helix Sleep，它根据个人睡眠需求定制床垫和枕头。睡眠显然是心理健康、身体健康和表现的基础；睡得足、睡得好时，生活中的一切都会顺利很多，而睡眠质量不足时，一切都会更困难。获得好睡眠的关键之一是选择合适的床垫，但每个人对最佳床垫的需求略有不同。Helix 设计了一个约两分钟的问卷，会询问你仰睡、侧睡还是俯睡，以及夜间容易觉得热还是冷；如果你不知道，也可以直接填写。访问 Helix 网站完成问卷后，系统会为你匹配合适的床垫。对我来说，匹配结果是 Dusk（D-U-S-K）床垫，它不太硬也不太软，我睡在 Helix 上比用过的其他床垫都好。如果你想升级床垫，可以访问 helixsleep.com/huberman，完成两分钟问卷，获得最多 350 美元的床垫折扣和两个免费枕头。再次提醒，是 helixsleep.com/huberman。今天的节目也由 Whoop 赞助。Whoop 是一款追踪日常活动和睡眠的健身穿戴设备，还会提供实时反馈，帮助你调整训练和睡眠时间以改善表现。我参与 Whoop 科学顾问委员会的工作，帮助推进其释放人体表现潜力的使命。作为 Whoop 用户，我亲身体验过它在睡眠追踪、监测其他生理指标以及反馈大脑和身体指标方面的益处，这些信息能告诉我应该或不应该进行多大强度的训练，也能指出日常生活中可以通过方案调整的地方，其中一些方案就在 Whoop 应用内。许多人都希望改善睡眠、建立更好的习惯或关注整体健康，Whoop 可以提供个性化数据、建议和指导。除了是世界上较准确的睡眠追踪器之一，Whoop 还能帮助你更快、更充分地从体育锻炼和其他压力中恢复，从而更有效地训练并睡得更好。如果想尝试 Whoop，访问 join.whoop.com/huberman，首月免费。今天的节目还由 Waking Up 赞助。Waking Up 是冥想应用，提供数百种引导式冥想、正念训练、瑜伽休息术课程等。我三十多年前开始冥想，当时关于冥想的科学证据还不多；如今已有大量有力证据表明，每日冥想可以改善情绪、专注和警觉性，降低压力，改善睡眠和整体健康。我和许多人都注意到，冥想能很好地缓冲压力，但我们往往恰恰在压力最大时放弃练习。Waking Up 提供不同长度的冥想来解决这一问题：有 30 到 60 分钟的较长课程，也有 10 分钟、5 分钟甚至 1 分钟的短课程，而且这些短课程也有证据支持。因此，无论多忙、多有压力，都能抽时间练习。多种冥想、瑜伽休息术和非睡眠深度休息方案也让练习保持新鲜，不容易厌倦。我每天会使用 Waking Up 做 5 到 10 分钟冥想或一次类似瑜伽休息术的非睡眠深度休息。如果漏掉一天，我会尝试在第二天把 NSDR、瑜伽休息术或冥想的时间加倍。瑜伽休息术和 NSDR 几乎可以在一天中的任何时间进行，用来恢复精神和身体活力。前一晚睡得不够时，我有时会早上醒来后先做一次；半夜醒来、难以再次入睡时，也可以做。有时它们能让你重新睡着，即使不能，也会比翻来覆去、担心自己睡不着时感觉更精神。因此，NSDR 和瑜伽休息术既能恢复精神与身体活力，也可能补回原本错过的睡眠。如果你想尝试 Waking Up，访问 wakingup.com/huberman，可获得 30 天免费试用。再次提醒，是 wakingup.com/huberman。下面进入我与 Matthew Walker 博士的谈话。Walker 博士。

Matthew Walker 博士：Huberman 博士。

Andrew Huberman：欢迎回来。我们已经讨论了很多内容。在本系列第一集中，你概述了睡眠，并介绍了一些可以执行的睡眠行动；第二集中，你更详细地讲了如何理解睡眠，从而对光线、温度和睡眠时间作出非常具体的决定，还介绍了一些深入的进阶工具——

Matthew Walker 博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman：……或者说我们称之为方案。第三集讨论了咖啡因和小睡，以及人们如何通过白天增加睡眠来大幅提升警觉性。今天我们要讨论睡眠、学习和记忆，还有一个我知道所有人都很感兴趣的话题：创造力。

Matthew Walker 博士：确实如此。能再次来到节目是无比愉快的，谢谢你的邀请。

Andrew Huberman：是的，当然。如今大多数人都理解睡眠与学习之间存在某种关系，但我们还是应该稍微拉远视角，明确这种关系究竟是什么。很多人都有这样的经验：接触了新的认知材料或身体技能，却无法马上学会；过了几天，突然就“ voilà ”，技能似乎已经被嵌入了。

Matthew Walker 博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman：在这种情况下并不明显的一点是，睡眠也许正是让学习过程得以发生的关键事件。你如何理解睡眠与学习、记忆之间的关系？

Matthew Walker 博士：我认为可以把它概括为三个不同阶段，或者说三类益处。第一，学习前需要睡眠，让大脑做好准备，最初印刻并铺设记忆痕迹。然后，学习后也需要睡眠，把这些刚形成的记忆保存下来并固定在大脑中，避免遗忘。第三，睡眠会把新学到的记忆与大脑中已经储存的大量信息目录碰撞起来，更新信息系统的“iOS”，这样第二天回来时，你就更有能力理解世界如何运作。换句话说，知识是学习事实，而智慧是把事实放在一起后理解它们意味着什么。这就是第三类益处。它为什么有用？因为它能带来创造性的洞见。我们可以逐一深入这三类，因为背后的数据非常有趣。很多人主观上感觉睡眠在某种程度上有助于记忆，但它究竟以什么方式帮助记忆？你在这里做的不只是介绍方案，还会解释这些方案背后的概念性机制，也就是它们为什么有效，我很愿意深入细节。

Andrew Huberman：好，那就从学习前睡眠这件事谈起，也就是在大脑中建立一个——

Matthew Walker 博士：嗯。

Andrew Huberman：……最适合学习的环境。从神经化学和神经回路层面看，这涉及什么？有什么证据表明，在接触新材料之前增加一点睡眠，或者只是保证充足睡眠——

Matthew Walker 博士：是的。

Andrew Huberman：……会带来好处？

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah, I love that word, that 最佳 milieu, and it beautifully describes what we've found. We started off asking a very simple 问题 at my 睡眠 center, is pulling the all-nighter a wise idea? So we took a group of perfectly 健康的, smart individuals, and we assigned them to one of two experimental groups, a 睡眠 group and a 睡眠剥夺 group. And both of those groups went through those two 不同 方案, and then the next day 之后 睡眠 or 之后 no 睡眠, we put them inside of a 大脑 scanner, and we had them try and learn a whole list of new facts as we were taking snapshots of 大脑 activity. And then we tested them to see how 有效 that 学习 had been. When we looked at the group that had had a full 夜间 of 睡眠, they had incredibly efficient 学习 capacity. So in other words, they had learned and imprinted that 信息 initially very well. When we looked at the 睡眠剥夺 group, not so much. In fact, there was a 40% deficit in the ability of the 大脑 to make new 记忆 without 睡眠. And we've used lots of 不同 types. We've replicated that now. We've had visual 信息. We've had textbook-like 信息. And the range is somewhere between 20% to 40%. I find that, by the way, striking, and we can come back to this based on what we are seeing in our educational systems right now. There is this paucity of 睡眠 因为 of this model of early school start times, and I'll explain exactly what's happened there and what we've been doing to try to change that. But coming back to those two groups, the 睡眠 group and the 睡眠剥夺 group, what was going on, as you said, inside of the 大脑 that would help us 理解 why they couldn't learn or at least couldn't learn effectively? And the structure that we focused on is one you've spoken about 之前 called the hippocampus And you have one on the left side and the right side of your 大脑. It looks like a long cigar that runs down the left and right side of your 大脑. And 人们 listening can think of the hippocampus almost like the informational inbox of your 大脑. 它是 very good at receiving new 记忆 files and then holding onto them. And when we looked at that structure and its activity 期间 学习 in the 睡眠 group, they had wonderful, powerful activation of the hippocampus, as if it was gobbling up all of that new 信息 into the inbox. When we looked at the 睡眠剥夺 group, however, we couldn't find any significant signal whatsoever. So it was almost as though 睡眠剥夺 had shut down the 记忆 inbox, and any new incoming files, they were just being bounced. You couldn't effectively commit new experiences to 记忆. And then subsequent 研究 that were not done by us, but looking at animal models, they were looking at how able the synapses are in that 记忆 structure, the hippocampus, how capable those synapses are for building new connections. And the synapses are just those connections between neurons, and we think that part of the way that we make 记忆 is by strengthening the connection in the 记忆 circuit itself. And what they found was that when they restricted the 睡眠 of these rats or the mice, that part of the 大脑 became very stubborn. It just wouldn't form those new synaptic connections. 它是 something that we call synaptic plasticity. So we started to 理解 this was the bad that happened when you take 睡眠 away. But let's come back to that control group that I said got a full 夜间 of 睡眠. Exactly what is it about 睡眠 when you do get it that seems to support and promote your 学习 ability? So we decided to do another 不同 研究. Instead of manipulating 睡眠 by dialing it down, we instead tried to dial it up by way of a 白天 小睡. And again, we took two groups, and we had them initially learn, again, a huge amount of factual 信息. They learned it over and over and over again. And then we brought them back six 小时 later at 6:00 PM, and now we had them learn a whole new set of 信息. And 之后 each one of those fresh, novel 学习 sessions, we tested them to see how 有效 that 学习 had been again. One of those groups spent that six 小时 of time awake, doing just relaxing activities. The other group was able to obtain a 90-minute 小睡, and we used that 90-minute 小睡 to allow them to go through a full sort of average cycle to get some non-REM and to get some REM. And what was interesting is that when we tested the group that remained awake later that following day, their 学习 capacity had declined. But in the 小睡 group, it seemed to restore the 大脑's capacity to learn, and you didn't get that decline in 记忆. In fact, if anything, you got a little boost. And the difference between those two is about 20%, which is quite a nice 益处.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Yeah, not trivial.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Not trivial at all. And then we said, okay, well, if 睡眠 is doing something, what is it about that 睡眠? So we unpacked the physiology of 睡眠 and the 不同 stages of 睡眠 that we discussed in the first episode. And what we found was that it was the non-快速眼动 睡眠, or the non-REM 睡眠, and particularly those 睡眠 spindles, those short bursts of electrical activity that we have discussed 之前, that seemed to predict how restored and refreshed your 学习 ability was. And the best way that I've been thinking about this in terms of 睡眠 restoring or refreshing your 编码 ability, and 它是 a crass analogy, and I don't mean to make a direct 大脑-to-computer analogy, but think of that hippocampus almost like a USB stick.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Mm-hmm.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： That's very good 期间 the day at going around and grabbing new files, but it has a limited storage capacity. And what 睡眠 was doing seemed to be shifting those 记忆 from the USB stick of your hippocampus over up to the cortex, which you can think of almost like your hard drive, a much bigger storage capacity. And by way of doing that, when you woke up 之后 the 小睡 or 之后 a full 夜间 of 睡眠, you had this cleared out USB stick. So what could you do? You could go around and start acquiring all these new files again. So that started to teach us a little bit about why 睡眠 之前 学习 is critical, but also mechanistically how 睡眠 is doing this remarkable work of 记忆 restoration. We then wanted to say, well, can we translate this out into the real world? And I think there are two regions that we've moved this work out into. One is education, one is medicine and Alzheimer's disease. But the education piece was very interesting. In the United States, I think the last time I checked, the average school start time is somewhere around 7:30, 7:45.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Sounds about right.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： And if you think about that for 7:30 school start times, school buses will begin leaving around 5:30, 5:45 in the 早晨.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Mm-hmm.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： That means that some kids are having to wake up at 5:00 AM, maybe even earlier. This is lunacy when you think about it. And there's a great 研究 in Edna, I hope 我 pronouncing that correct, Edna, which is a small suburb, or it sits in a small suburb outside of Minneapolis in Minnesota. And they shifted their school start times from 7:25 to 8:30 in the 早晨. And then they wanted to ask what is the consequence of that on the academic 表现 of their students. And the metric that they used in these teenagers that they were focusing on was something called the SAT score, which is a score I had to learn when I first came to the United States. Is a critical assessment test that will largely determine which university you go to. And they did an analysis, which was clever. They focused on the top 10% performing students, which you could argue those are the ones that are closest to the ceiling 表现 and the hardest to expect any 益处 from 睡眠. So in the year 之前 they made the time change, the average score of those top 10% performing students was 1,288, which turns out to be a pretty good SAT score. The following year 之后 they made the time change, the average score for that top 10% was 1,500. That difference is non-trivial, and it will change exactly where those individuals will go to university in terms of the tier of the university and likely change the trajectory of their lives-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Amazing

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： ... as a consequence. Now, some 人们 have argued that data, in terms of its source and its reliability may not have necessarily been accurate, but now we've got very consistent data. When you start school times later, academic grades improve, psychological and psychiatric problems decrease, truancy rates decrease. But something else happened in that story of later school start times that we didn't expect, which was that the life expectancy of students increased. And you think, "Well, hang on a second. How do you determine that?" The number one cause of death in teenagers 16 to 18 is actually not suicide. Turns out to be second. 它是 road traffic accidents. And here, 睡眠 matters enormously. There was another great 例子 from Teton County in Wyoming, and they shifted their school start times from I think it was 7:35 in the 早晨 to 8:55. And the only thing more remarkable than the extra one 小时 of 睡眠 those kids reported getting was the drop in car accidents. That following year, there was a 70% reduction in car crashes in that age range of 16 to 18.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： What time are they getting out of school?

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Well, they will probably be ejected out of school, that's another interesting part, by the way, maybe around 4:30. And 人们 have said, "Well, look, all of this idea of later school start times, it means that 它是 going to cost us more 因为 you've got to change the school bus 系统," and they've argued pushback against that. And I would say probably two things. First, I know 它是 difficult, and 我 not saying 它是 an easy problem to do. 它是 a complex problem. And 我 sympathetic to that, but I think we've put 人们 on the Moon, and so I suspect that we can also solve the problem of early school start times. The other component of that is what are we doing as educators? If our goal as educators is truly to educate and not risk lives in the 过程, then we are failing our children in a most spectacular manner with this incessant model of early school start times. And if you look at the data, 它是 very clear. When 睡眠 is abundant, minds flourish, and when 它是 not, they don't. And so that's the reason why myself and a whole group of 睡眠 scientists, we started to try to create a movement for later school start times, and we got this bill passed, firstly in California, and we got it on the governor's desk at the time. It was Governor Brown. And unfortunately, he didn't sign it into law. Then when the organization changed and Governor Newsom came in as governor of California, we got the bill back on his desk, and he did sign it. And then, the next state to go was New York. They started to put in legislation for recommendations for later school start times. I think Florida is about to fall as well in that regard. So there's gradual movement happening, but 它是 hard-fought, and 它是 problematic. I still think that 它是 impossible to deny that data. It was an interesting thing. I 记住 when I was a professor back at Harvard, we were doing this work on 睡眠 and 学习. And it was sort of published in these sort of kindly, I don't know how we did it, but in nice journals. And they said, "Okay, based on the media traction, would you write an editorial for the Harvard newspaper?" Which was called "The Harvard Crimson." And I said, "I'd love to." So at first I thought, 我 just going to write a straight piece about 睡眠 and 记忆 and why 它是 重要. Then I realized, no, there's a better opportunity 因为 teaching there, and you know this as well as I do, there is this bizarre 系统 where we teach for an entire semester, and then we end load the semester full of exams in this stressful two-week period. And what do you think is going to happen? They're not going to 睡眠, especially at a time when they're trying to cram 信息. So-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Right, especially in college where you don't actually have the material four weeks 之前, so there's not really the option to learn it in advance.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： No.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Everything about university to me was about getting a bunch of 信息 and needing to incorporate it very quickly and then move to the next item.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Right. Next item. And then all of a sudden, there's this cataclysmic moment at the end of the semester, and you are supposed to regurgitate this by cramming everything into your 大脑-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Right

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： ... in this sleepless two-week period. So rather than saying, look, the students need to change their behavior, they need to 理解 this is a problem, 它是 not their fault I said, "它是 us as educators and administrators, we have created a 系统 that forces them to undergo deliberate 睡眠剥夺, and we are educating them amnesic quite literally."

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Mm-hmm.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： So I put this editorial out. It received a rather Baltic, if not Arctic, response, and that was the last editorial I was ever invited to write for the newspaper. But you've got to say your piece.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Well, so but 我 curious why there's resistance to shifting to later school times and to improving the conditions for 学习 if the goal is to learn. Tradition dies hard.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Mm.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Maybe that's why. I think there's also the idea, certainly in the medical profession, that while when I was doing my training, we would pull all-nighters all the time. And so the idea then is that 它是 just part of the self-directed hazing 过程 that is getting a degree, that you're going to be doing a lot of all-nighters and cramming and things of that sort. Is that why you think motivates the resistance to change?

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： I think so. I think you've hit all the points. I think zeitgeists die one generation at a time, and we see that resistance certainly there, too. I also think that when you come back to later school start times, they have suggested that there is this cost when they tally it up. But you made a point, which is when do they get out of school? And let's say 它是 around 4:30. One of the interesting analyses that was published, and we latched onto this, that is this strange bewitching 小时 when kids get out of school, but often their parents are not home to work. And if you look at the teenage crime rate and you look at when those crimes are committed, 它是 usually in that bewitching 小时 之后 they get out of school, but they don't have a home or parents yet to go to that 它是 filled. But by pushing school start times later, they get out later, they go home, and if you were to even half that debt that those crimes cause, you would easily pay for the education 系统. So 它是 very interesting. I think that also notion of, well, we went through it and here I am, so you can go through it, too, is very prevalent in medicine. This is another good 例子. We and mostly colleagues of mine, such as Charles Czeisler at Harvard, have really done a great job at cataloging exactly why we need to abandon this resident program, which has a fascinating history, by the way, which is young residents should be working 30-小时 shifts, often without any 睡眠 whatsoever. And when you look at that data, residents who are working a 30-小时 shift are going to be almost 460% more likely to make diagnostic errors in the intensive care unit. If you have a surgeon and you're getting elective surgery who's had less than six 小时 of 睡眠 in the previous 24, they are almost 70% more likely to cause a surgical error, which could result in nontrivial consequences. And then the irony is that when young residents, 之后 a 30-小时 shift, get back into their car at the end of the shift and drive home, there is 168% increased risk that they get into a car accident and then end up back in the ER from where they just came, but now as a patient rather than a physician. And you think, what are we doing? Charles Czeisler, I think, has described they provided this 证据 to the council, and at first, I think the idea was, look, our minds are made up. Don't confuse me with the data. And when you appeal on the empathetic basis, but it wasn't well-received. So then if you go back and you say, "No, 我 going to give you a 不同 argument. If you look at the cost of malpractice caused by insufficient 睡眠," and if you get the administrators into the room, all of a sudden, the schedules change. So then based on that data, there was a policy that you couldn't work any longer than, I think it was a 16-小时 continuous shift. The problem was that they only said that that was apparent for the first-year residents and not the remaining years. And the 问题 was, well, why? They said, "Well, the data that you showed us, you only collected in first-year residents." As if something magical is going to happen when you become a second-year resident and you don this Teflon coat of immunity against 睡眠剥夺.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Well, if anything, it would compound and get worse. So it seems to me that there's zero 问题 that getting adequate 睡眠 is good for 学习. But when 它是 high risk, high consequences scenarios or even high consequence scenarios, like a medical situation-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... it just seems like it should almost come down to legal liability.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： I'd like to take a brief break and acknowledge our sponsor, AG1. AG1 is a vitamin mineral probiotic drink that also contains adaptogens and is designed to meet all of your foundational nutritional needs. By now, 我 sure you've all heard me say that I've been taking AG1 since 2012, and indeed, that is true. Now, of course, I do consume regular whole foods every day. I strive to get those foods mostly from unprocessed or minimally processed sources. However, I do find it hard to get 足够 servings of fruits and vegetables each day. So with AG1, I ensure that I get 足够 of the vitamins, minerals, prebiotic fiber, and other things typically found in fruits or vegetables, and of course, I still make sure to eat fruits and vegetables. And in that way, provide a sort of insurance that 我 getting 足够 of what I need. In addition, the adaptogens and other micronutrients in AG1 really help buffer against stress and ensure that the cells and organs and tissues of my body are getting the things they need. 人们 often ask me that if they were going to take just one supplement, what that supplement should be, and I always 回答 AG1. If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim a special offer. You'll get five free travel packs plus a year's supply of vitamin D3K2. Again, that's drinkag1.com/huberman. So are the errors of 睡眠剥夺 in these scenarios, both in students and in medical professionals, are they due to errors in 记忆 per se? 因为 you can imagine all sorts of errors. So with a surgeon, they cut the wrong thing or they cut-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Right

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... too far, the margin on the surgical site is too big, et cetera. But since we're talking about 学习 and 记忆 and its relationship to 睡眠, is it that 人们 are forgetting what they did? Are they forgetting what they didn't do? Or is it a deficit in motor 技能, or all of the above?

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： 它是 all of the above plus, which is that 学习 and 记忆 or recollection of both what you did or what you need to do or what you should do based on your training is going to be compromised 因为 your 回忆 of that 信息, it turns out, is also compromised.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Got it.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： But 它是 also decision-making, too, that what we know is that your frontal lobe is especially sensitive to a lack of 睡眠, and 它是 that frontal lobe that really takes complex situations, distills them down, and comes up with the correct output scenario of decisions that you need to make. Not so much when you're 睡眠 deprived.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： So how should I establish the proper neural milieu for 学习 by sleeping prior? In an ideal world, I get an excellent 夜间's 睡眠 for every day of my life leading up to a bout of 学习. And here 我 referring to a bout of 学习 as being exposed to new material. But life happens.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： So if I know that tomorrow 我 going to take a class in something or 我 going to need to perform a 技能 that 它是 a pretty nascent 技能 for me, I only learned it recently, what should I do the 夜间 之前?

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： I would say think about what you can get in terms of your 睡眠 under current conditions and 理解 that staying awake and forgoing 睡眠 is not the right equation that you may think. In other words, think of 睡眠 that 夜间 as an investment in tomorrow rather than a cost opportunity of now or today. That would be the message, I think, for 学习 and 记忆. Some 人们 will say logically and rationally, "Well, but if I stay awake, I can at least be 学习 and going over that material for many more 小时, so doesn't that compensate for me going to bed? Let's say I haven't learned it well 足够, well, surely I should just 专注 and stay awake, 因为 at least then I can just go over the material time and time and time again. Doesn't that offset the deficit?" And to a degree it does. We did that 研究. But what was really interesting is that the next day, were you able to at least learn and 回忆 some of that 信息 to a degree? Yes, you were. And the more that you kept going over it, the better you performed, even when you were not getting sufficient 睡眠. But then we did something interesting. We then brought them back, and we haven't published this data. I should do. We brought them back a month later, and then we tested them again. And what you find is that the group that slept was far better able to have retained and 记住 that 信息, whereas the group that did not 睡眠 as much, they performed much more similar to the group that got a full 夜间 of 睡眠 the next day. But when you test them a month later, almost none of that material is residing in their 大脑 anymore.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Got it. So this is the cramming effect.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： That's right.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Right. And one knows this from teaching university courses or if they've crammed, that you can learn a bunch of material, but then you regurgitate it for the exam, and then 它是 gone.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： So 它是 almost like it just never passes from short-term to 长期记忆, essentially.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： That's correct.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Okay.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： And that seems to be, in some ways, that's a beautiful description of then what happens next in the 睡眠 过程. 它是 not just about 睡眠 之前 学习. You then have to 睡眠 之后 学习 to do exactly what you just described.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： So I have a class in the 早晨, or 我 going to learn something new the next day 下午. My goal presumably should be to maximize the amount of 睡眠 I get and to be on the same 睡眠 schedule. So this gets back to QQRT that was presented in the first episode, quantity, 质量, regularity, and timing. And 人们 should refer to that.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Nothing wrong with your 记忆, by the way.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Well, I don't know about that. But the QQRT formula was described in the first episode. Let's come up with what I think is a fairly common scenario. So I like to go to bed early, between 8:00 and 9:00 PM. I discovered this recently, thanks to conversations with you. This is clearly what works best for me. I kind of always intuited it, but it clearly is what works best. If I go to bed at 10:00, I probably want to wake up sometime around, I don't know, 6:00 AM or 6:30. And if I go to bed any later than 10:30, I start running into problems. I don't feel good the next day, even if I get sufficient 小时 of 睡眠. So this is the importance of regularity and timing, keeping things more or less locked to that 8:30 to 9:30 to bedtime for me, 4:30 to 5:30 wakeup time. That's me. Just by way of 例子. In an ideal world, 因此, I would stick to that schedule, wake up the next day and Go do my 学习 or my 表现 of something that I had learned. Someone else might have the chronotype where going to bed at 11:00 PM and waking up at 7:30 AM is their preferred schedule. However, often 因为 of travel, 因为 of courses, 因为 of life circumstances, the 夜间 之前 something critical that we need to learn or to perform some critical task, 身体的 or cognitive, the 睡眠 the 夜间 之前 is disrupted in some way, either by virtue of timing or quantity, and then, of course, by extension, regularity. So is there anything that we can do heading into a bout of 学习, meaning the 夜间 preceding that bout of 学习, that can kind of provide a buffer or set us up for the best possible 学习 scenario if we're not able to stick to our perfect schedule?

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： I think there may be two things. There's been a little bit of work that's been done to suggest that 咖啡因 may actually enhance the hippocampus, this 记忆 编码 structure, and boost its ability to 编码. Now, what they haven't yet done is the 研究 where you 睡眠 deprive someone, then you give them 咖啡因 the next day, and then you have them try to learn and ask, can 咖啡因, by way of its effect on the hippocampus, rescue and restore what would otherwise be an 编码 deficit? Now, that is entirely possible, and I think 它是 a fascinating 问题. By how much? We don't know. But if it doesn't, 它是 equally likely that the hippocampus, by way of being 睡眠 deprived, is not receptive to the 益处 of 咖啡因 under conditions of 睡眠剥夺. And I told you in the rat 研究, when those rats were deprived, the hippocampus once again became stubborn in its ability to form new synapses, and it may be that 它是 equally stubborn to receive the normal 益处 of 咖啡因 when you are 睡眠 rested. But I would love to do that 研究. The second is to then say, well, if I have the choice of when 我 going to be 学习 期间 the day, let's say that you've had a bad 夜间 of 睡眠, or you just had a short 夜间 of 睡眠, non-negotiable, couldn't do anything about it, and the next day I've got to cram in some 信息. I would say think about your chronotype and think about when you are at your best operating temperature. So your scenario, let's say going to bed at 9:00, waking up at 4:30, 5:00, your peak is probably going to be maybe 10, 11 o'clock in the 早晨, where your biology and your 昼夜节律 is on its almost crescendo peak. At that point, we know for 昼夜节律 influences on 学习, and this is independent of 睡眠 influences on 学习, that's where things are better. Now, for me, you actually described me, which is 我 a kind of an 11:00 to 7:30 type 人. For me, 它是 probably going to be much closer to about midday or 1:00 PM, where I feel at my operating peak, both for 身体的 表现 and also 心理的 表现. So if you've got the choice and you are underslept, there's nothing you can do about the 睡眠 that you've lost the 夜间 之前, but at least recognize that your 昼夜节律 is going to come to your rescue and help offset that as long as you time your 学习 to that known peak of your 昼夜节律. Does that help a little bit?

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Yes, that makes good sense. So the idea gets us back to something you described in previous episodes, which is that you have this 睡眠压力 due to the buildup of the molecule adenosine, which the longer we're awake, the more adenosine in our nervous 系统, which makes us sleepy. But separate from that, there's this 昼夜节律, circadia, about 24-小时 rhythm, that causes fairly dramatic shifts in wakefulness and sleepiness independent of the adenosine signal. Now, sometimes the two signals overlap, so that late in the 晚上, for instance, we have a lot of adenosine, we've been up all day, and our 昼夜节律 is such that our 警觉性 is starting to diminish, so they're aligned. And in the early part of the day, assuming everything is normal, the adenosine levels are low 因为 we slept well the 夜间 之前, and our 昼夜节律 is on the upswing, so to speak, and we are alert. So if I 理解 correctly, the goal is to, of course, maximize the 质量, quantity, regularity, and timing of 睡眠, QQRT, but that in the absence of the ability to really anchor any one of those things to 10 out of 10, A+ 表现, if one knows that, okay, typically around between 10:00 AM and noon is when 我 at my sharpest, that would be the time to be exposed to new material or ideally take an exam if one can control that sort of thing. And then perhaps in the 下午, there's another opportunity 之后 the postprandial dip.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： That's right.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： But 之前 the postprandial dip, sometime between 1:00 and 4:00 PM, usually lasting about an 小时 to 90 分钟. This is a natural dip in energy. But then 之后 that, there's another opportunity to learn. Sure, there'll be a lot of adenosine in one's 系统 因为 you've been up a long time, but the 昼夜节律 系统 is on its sort of upswing again-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： 它是 coming back, yeah

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... 之前 the downswing that occurs in the 晚上. Is that right?

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： That's right.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： So you can cut-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： So you've got two opportunities.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Sure.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： And by the way, 它是 strange you were to ask, if you look at the 昼夜节律, right 之前 bedtime, there is this sort of strange little blip, this peak that folks back at Harvard have discovered. And you think, well, why would my 昼夜节律 系统, which needs to really ratchet down for us to get to 睡眠 well, why would it have this little jag upwards in the 晚上 小时 right 之前 we need to 睡眠, and it then drops precipitously?

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Right.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Makes no sense until you think about evolution, 因为 之后 foraging for food 期间 the day, what you need Is this final spurt to get you home safely to your nest or to your home.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Yeah. To batten down the hatches.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Exactly.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Yeah.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： So there is this beautiful little built-in 昼夜节律 upswing to say, "Okay, I know you're returning to home. This is probably a time when there's some maybe potential threat to you. 我 going to just boost your 警觉性 very quickly so you travel home safely. Good to go? Great. And now I start my downswing."

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： I think this is a really 重要 thing for 人们 to know about. 我 familiar with the data, although just in top contour. But the idea here, as I 理解 it, is that many 人们 will feel like, okay, around 6:00 PM, 6:30, they're getting sleepy, 7:30, 8:00 PM, and then they want to get to bed at 10:30, and suddenly, for them, based on their chronotype, around 9:00 PM, they're wide awake.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Second wind.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Right. The second wind, and they're like, "Oh, no. I need to 睡眠 tonight." Now, maybe 它是 the case that they would be better off going to bed far earlier and waking up earlier the next 早晨. But in many cases, 它是 just that transient 45- to 70-minute window of increased 警觉性.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： That's right.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： This kind of uptick in the 昼夜节律 警觉性 系统. So to speak.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah. This too shall pass.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Yeah. Right.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： And then also just set yourself up for success, and we discussed a little bit about the methods of really ratcheting things down, dimming down the lights, having a to bed alarm. These types of things will just gradually back you off, and 之后 that second wind comes, give you the greatest ability to decline physiologically, which then permits this beautiful thing called 睡眠 to come in its place.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Well, speaking of 睡眠 post-学习-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Mm-hmm

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... what is the role of 睡眠 that follows a bout of 学习? And here again, we want to define 学习 as the exposure to novel 信息 that one is trying to 编码, either cognitive 信息, motor 信息, or a combination of the two. And I say that 因为 学习, AKA neuroplasticity, has many 不同 stages. 它是 a 过程-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Mm-hmm

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... not an event. But so let's say that earlier in the day, I took a dance class, Lord knows I need one, or-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： You and I both

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... or a musical lesson, or was exposed to some interesting 信息, who knows? Maybe on a podcast, and I was trying to engage in that 信息 and pay 注意力. And then that 夜间, I plan to 睡眠, or perhaps wanted to take a 小睡 之后 this bout of 学习. How close to the 学习 episode about, as 我 calling it, does the 睡眠 have to arrive in order for 睡眠-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Mm

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... to maximize the amount of 学习 that occurs?

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： 它是 a very good 问题, which is, what would happen if I were to be 学习 信息 and 我 listening to this odd British gentleman, should I then immediately dive into bed so that I maximize the retention of that 信息? And the 回答 is no. Don't worry. And I'll come back to why not to worry. But to your point, not only do you need 睡眠 之前 学习, as we've been 讨论, but there is something unique and equally necessary of, and causely necessary, I should say, for 睡眠 之后 学习. But it does something 不同. 睡眠 之前 学习 gets your 大脑 ready to lay down those new 记忆痕迹. 之后 you've imprinted them into the 大脑, 睡眠 之后 学习 then takes those freshly minted 记忆, and then it strengthens them. Essentially, 它是 almost like 睡眠 will hit the save button on those new 记忆 so that you don't 遗忘. So in other words, 睡眠 is future-proofing that 信息 within your 大脑 so that you don't 遗忘. And then the 问题, and we've been able to, and we and many others have replicated this. In fact, 它是 nothing new. If you look at the literature on this 睡眠 之后 学习 gig, it goes back as best we can tell to 1929, although I'll argue with that in a second. But two researchers, Jenkins and Dallenbach, did a landmark 研究. They had participants learn a whole bunch of nonsense syllables, and they had them learn them over and over and over again, and gradually they got better. And then they started to test them across an eight-小时 period. They tested them two 小时 later, four 小时 later, six 小时 later, and eight 小时 later. The only difference is that in one of those testing sessions, that two 小时, four 小时, six 小时, eight 小时 was across a waking day. In the other, they had them learn that 信息 to near perfection 之前 睡眠, just as they did in the waking group, but now they woke them up 之后 two 小时 and tested them, 之后 four 小时 and tested them, 之后 six 小时, and then again when they woke up in the 早晨, eight 小时 later. And what they found is that in those 人们 who stayed awake 之后 学习, there was essentially just catastrophic forgetting. The amount of 信息 two 小时, four 小时, six 小时, eight 小时 later just declined dramatically. But when they repeated that in the same individuals 之后 学习 things to the same degree, two 小时, four 小时 later, 记忆 was starting to decline, but 之后 about two and a half, three 小时 of being asleep, all of a sudden, 睡眠 had fixated those 记忆, almost like an animal that's been trapped in amber and set in amber like a fossil. And then those 记忆 just would not decay any further, and you retained them. What was stunning about that 研究 is it has been replicated time and time again. That's not the surprising part. The surprising part is that in that 研究, they tested a vast number of subjects. In fact, a sum total- Of two participants. But what's stunning is that that finding has gone and been replicated time and time again. So that demonstrated to us that there's something special about 睡眠 that is concretizing, almost literally taking things and setting it in concrete. And then the 问题 became, again, mechanistically, how? How is it? And 它是 重要 to 理解 机制 因为 it has ramifications for diseases and medicine. How is 睡眠 doing this fantastic saving of 记忆? And we now have at least two non-mutually exclusive 机制. So in other words, both seem to occur. The first is what we call 记忆 translocation. 睡眠, and particularly what we found for fact-based 记忆, and I should note by the way that this story of 睡眠 之后 学习 is a two-part, or it runs in two 不同 narratives. One is 睡眠 之后 学习 for fact-based 记忆, what we describe as declarative 记忆, and you've done a fantastic previous episode on 工作记忆, and you describe all of these 不同 types of 记忆. So one storyline has been 睡眠 之后 学习 for fact-based 记忆, but the other, which is equally interesting, is 睡眠 for non-declarative or procedural 技能 记忆. In other words, what we think of as motor 记忆. But I'll come back to motor 记忆 in a second. What we then found for this 睡眠 and textbook-like 记忆 is that there are two 机制, the first translocation. And here what we found is that 它是 deep non-REM 睡眠 for fact-based 记忆, and 它是 those big, slow, powerful brainwaves that we spoke about in the first episode, combined with those 睡眠 spindles that ride on top of them almost like a surfer on a huge amplitude wave. And 它是 the combination of those two brainwaves that acts like a file transfer 机制, and it moves and shifts 记忆 from a short-term vulnerable reservoir, the hippocampus, to the more permanent long-term storage site, the cortex in the 大脑, and 因此 protecting them and making them safe. So that's one 机制, is the shifting of 记忆 around the 大脑 and through 不同 storage sites from short term to long term. The second, I think, is perhaps even more fascinating. 它是 called 记忆 replay. And this was discovered back in probably 1990s. Bruce McNaughton at the University of Arizona, working with a young Matt Walker, who's Matt Wilson at MIT now. They were looking at rats, and they were looking at how rats learn a maze. And they had these electrodes in these hippocampal 大脑 regions, these 记忆-related regions that we've been 讨论. And they were listening to the individual firing patterns of those 记忆 cells in the hippocampus as they were running around the maze. And sure 足够, as they ran around the maze, statistically you would build up what looked like the signature pattern of 学习. So think about those neurons, that they each had a special tone to them. And as the rat is running around the maze, you can hear the signature of 学习. Ba ba ba ba, ba ba ba bum, ba ba ba bum, ba ba ba bum. And it just went over and over again. But then they did something clever. When the rats went to 睡眠 之后 学习, they kept listening. What did they hear? They didn't just hear noise. They heard that same 记忆 signature replayed. However, it wasn't replayed at the same speed. It was replayed somewhere between 10 to 20 times faster. So now all of a sudden, instead of hearing ba ba ba bum, ba ba ba bum, you heard just going over and over again. And what we've learned is that this replay of 记忆 for that type of 信息. Now, for rats, that's their version essentially of that spatial navigation is their version of fact-based 记忆, and I won't go into detail, but-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Yeah, 因为 navigating novel environments is especially 重要 for all species, but rodents to know where they cached food, where escapes are, and things of that sort.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah. Perhaps even more so than us humans, that locational 记忆 is necessary.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： And nowadays there's Google Maps and Uber and things of that sort, but in the old days, as it were, I 回忆 the London taxi drivers were considered the world heavyweight champions of 记忆. And there were some decent 大脑 imaging 研究 of their hippocampi, and indeed they have amazing spatial 记忆 of the city of London. Now that's probably changed 因为 of Google Maps. There's no need to rely on internal 记忆 stores when you have-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： No, you can drive these rideshare apps. But for London taxi drivers, they still have to go through, in some ways, 它是 almost like a hazing. 它是 called The 知识. And if you are visiting London, you will see these strange guys who are going around on mopeds, and they just have this huge kind of map in front of them. And they are doing The 知识, which is that they are 学习 exquisitely the entire roadmap of London. And what they found in those 研究 was that the size of the hippocampus, this 记忆 structure related to fact-based 记忆 and also spatial 记忆, was significantly larger in cab drivers than it was in matched controls. Now you could say, well, this is a self-selecting 过程 that 人们 who already have large hippocampi, as we would say, they're just going to be the 人们 who can do The 知识 well and pass as it were. But what they also found was that a correlation, the longer that you've been doing The 知识 and being a taxi driver, the bigger and bigger your hippocampus. So 它是 time on task. So coming back to the rats and this spatial 学习, 它是 almost as though 睡眠 之后 学习 is taking that 记忆 trace and 它是 like etching into a glass surface. You just go over that 记忆 circuit over and over again, and you're strengthening that 记忆 circuit. What was also fascinating, however, 我 telling you that 它是 期间 non-REM 睡眠 that you do all of this 记忆 replay, and certainly what we found is that for textbook 记忆, 它是 deep non-REM 睡眠. That's the 重要 stage of 睡眠. But Matt Wilson published at MIT an interesting 研究 looking at REM 睡眠. What happens to the 记忆 trace in REM 睡眠? And REM 睡眠, which we know is associated with dreaming, there the 记忆 replay didn't slow back down to normal waking speed. It slowed down even further to 0.5 times relative to waking speed. So the waking speed versus the dreaming speed in dreaming, sort of in REM 睡眠, I should say, 因为 we don't know if rats dream or not, but in REM 睡眠, things had slowed down by essentially 50%. And this comes back to our conversation in a previous episode that we had about time, and you and I were 讨论 how there's this strange phenomenon where you are woken up by your alarm and you're in a dream, and you have a snooze button that lasts five 分钟. You hit the snooze button, you go back to 睡眠, and you feel as though you've been dreaming for, I don't know, 10 分钟, 15 分钟, but 它是 been five 分钟 in the real world, but time has slowed down. Time has dilated. 它是 almost like a concertina that's stretched out. And all of a sudden, we were finding in, or Matt Wilson, 因为 we don't do animal 研究, was finding that this replay was slowed down by 50%. So I always wonder whether or not there is neuronal 证据 that helps us explain why dreams seem to pack more time, despite being in real-world time a shorter amount. Absolutely fascinating.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Yeah, I have to imagine that rats dream and dogs dream and other animals dream. Why wouldn't they? If all the components of REM 睡眠 that are expressed in humans appear in these animals and vice versa, you imagine it almost has to be the case.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： It does, and I think there is some interesting supportive 证据 that you can argue. There is a 睡眠 disorder that we understood in humans first called 快速眼动 disorder or REM 睡眠 behavioral disorder. And in the first episode, we said that one of the fascinating features of REM 睡眠, which is when we principally dream, is that your 大脑, and specifically your 大脑 stem, paralyzes your body so that your mind can dream safely. So you're shut down into this motor paralysis incarceration, rightly so. But what also happens is that as we get older, and it seems to be particularly more so in men than in women, but it can be both, once we get past our 50s, there is a higher likelihood that that 机制 starts to degrade, and you can start to act out your dreams. Now, this is not sleepwalking or 睡眠 talking. That actually comes from deep non-REM 睡眠. And there, what happens is that there is a trigger, an awakening, either a 大脑 response, almost like a stress response, that wakes the 大脑 up, and you're in the deeper stages of 睡眠, and you are trying to get forced back up to wakefulness, back to that analogy of going from the basement to the penthouse. And instead, you just get locked into this mixed state of consciousness. And as a consequence, you start to enact very rote, basic behaviors. You'll go over to the refrigerator, open the door, close the door, pick up a glass, put it to your mouth, put it back down. And if you wake someone up, which you shouldn't necessarily do unless there's harm, and ask them, "What was going through your mind just a few 分钟 ago?" They'll say, "Nothing." And the reason is 因为 it wasn't coming from dream 睡眠, it was from deep non-REM 睡眠.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： I see.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： However, there is a very 不同 condition that sometimes 人们 will mix up as the very same thing, which is REM 睡眠 behavioral disorder, and there you're acting out your dreams. It can be quite violent. Some 人们 have enacted violence on their partner-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Mm-hmm

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： ... and woken up and been absolutely devastated. I bring this up, however, 因为 human beings are not the only species that suffers from REM 睡眠 behavioral disorder. Dogs suffer from this as well. And when you see it and you can 理解, 它是 very clear, you have electrodes on the head, they go into this REM 睡眠 state, and all of a sudden they come out of the paralysis, and they start enacting what very much looks like a behavior of wakefulness. 它是 quite complex. And at that point, you look at that and you say, "Okay, 我 sorry, but that looks very much like dreaming." Now, we can't, of course, ask dogs the 问题, "What was going through your mind?"

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： You can ask them.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： But-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： But they're not going to 回答.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： But yeah, you can ask them, but it turns out that the response is-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： 我 just kidding. Forgive me

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： ... less than. 它是 just a look to say, "Give me a treat." But in science, sometimes if it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, walks like a duck, maybe 它是 a duck.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： What about this phenomenon, which I've experienced 之前, of being asleep, presumably in 快速眼动 睡眠, and being completely paralyzed, but then waking up and 我 still in paralysis, but 我 not asleep. And-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Mm-hmm

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... this was a long time ago, probably the 10th grade, which for me, I was what, 15 years old. 我 48 now. And it was at a party that I fell asleep on the couch, and goodness, I don't believe in underage drinking, but there's a possibility that I might've been inebriated. I was-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Just a possibility

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... kids, parents, I actively dissuade ... young 人们 from drinking and many older 人们 from drinking. But, yeah, I started drinking far too young. But I 记住 I drank the 夜间 之前, I got drunk the 夜间 之前. Again, something 我 not suggesting or proud of. I woke up and I was wide awake, gosh, I 记住 this so well, and I was paralyzed. I could not move, and it was terrifying.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Was it-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： And then all of a sudden, boom, I could jolt myself awake, and I was like, "Oh my goodness." And it must have been an invasion of that atonia, that 睡眠-induced paralysis into the waking state.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： So I can explain this and this is the perfect prototypical situation when we see this. What you're describing to me is something that many 人们 listening will have experienced, called REM 睡眠 paralysis. And 它是 not necessarily a problem or a sign of a condition that you need to be worried about, although if 它是 happening frequently, we can think about that. What normally happens when we wake up out of REM 睡眠, and REM 睡眠, as we spoke about in the first episode, dominates the second half of the 夜间, and particularly the last quarter of the 夜间. As you're coming out of REM 睡眠 and waking up out of REM 睡眠, which you've got a 50% chance perhaps, 因为 the other state that you're in is stage two, light non-REM. As you're coming out of REM 睡眠, you're regaining consciousness to the external world, and then normally in lockstep with that, perfect lockstep, if not a little 之前, your 大脑 is realizing this, and 它是 releasing you from the paralysis. And we all wake up and we don't even think about it. I just wake up and I lean over, I turn off the alarm, and I get out of bed. Everything's fine. Every now and again, however, the waking up and consciousness reengaging occurs. However, the 大脑 does not release you from the REM 睡眠 paralysis. So at that point, 它是 almost like a locked-in body phenomenon, and 它是 very frightening 因为 you begin to be aware of your surroundings, but you cannot make any voluntary movements. 因为 I told you that the voluntary skeletal muscle 系统 is impaired by the atonia, the absence of muscle. You're involuntary, you're still breathing and all of that, but your eyelids turn out to be part of your voluntary muscle set. So you can't lift up your eyelids, and then normally what happens is that 它是 associated with a strong sense of often an intruder, it seems to be, if you're doing it sort of in bed by yourself at home. Now, your context was a little 不同. And it turns out that if you look at these descriptions of 睡眠 paralysis where you can't wake up, you can't shout out, you can't move, you have this sense of another presence or another being in the room, it adequately explains most, if not all, alien abduction stories. 因为 when was the last time you saw a news article or on the news that someone said, "Okay, today it was very clear that Jimmy in Wisconsin, in the middle of the day, was abducted by aliens, and everyone saw it." You're at the meeting table and whoosh, what happened? That was Jimmy, he just got whisked off by an alien. It doesn't happen that way. 它是 normally that you're in bed at 夜间, 它是 the early 早晨 小时 just 之前 you're waking up. These aliens came into the room, they injected something into you, they paralyzed you. You couldn't shout, you couldn't move. 它是 simply REM 睡眠 paralysis. Now, when do we see that? There are ways, and not ways, 因为 these are not 方案 that we advise. There are circumstances where the probability of that increases. And I've experienced this, too. When you are 睡眠-deprived or you are highly stressed, the likelihood that you will 经验 these REM 睡眠 paralysis events upon awakening is increased. And for me, it was happening when I was a young PhD student, and I was studying 睡眠, and then I would be awake all 夜间 因为 I'd be monitoring the patients and looking at their 睡眠.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： The irony of 睡眠 研究.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Exactly. That you have to deprive yourself of the very thing that you are trying to 研究 which, by the way, gives you some amazing insights for 实验-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Sure

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： ... that I've had as a consequence. Not that I would advise that as the way. And we'll come on to why that's not wise when we speak about 创造力. But we were doing these 研究, and then I would go home, and then I would take a short period of 睡眠, maybe just two and a half 小时 of 睡眠, and then I would wake up. I didn't want to 因为 I was ready to go deep into 睡眠, but I would wake up, and then I would force myself to be awake throughout the day and try to get to bed at a reasonable time, 因为 if I slept all day, what's going to happen? 我 just going to be awake all the next 夜间, and 我 going to be out of my rhythm. But what's interesting is that when I would wake up then, I would be waking up maybe at 10:00 a.m. in the 早晨, 11:00. And at that point, if you're sleeping with someone like my phase, you are in a very REM 睡眠 desiring state, that 它是 in those last 早晨 小时 and into the early 早晨 小时 when your 大脑 wants to devour off the menu of 睡眠阶段 this thing called REM in vast quantities. So I was 睡眠-deprived, point number one. Second, I was going into a very REM 睡眠 rich phase. In other words, higher likelihood of paralysis, and that occurred to me. Your description is also prototypical. You've been drinking the 夜间 之前, went out to the party. We spoke about in one of our previous episodes that one of the problems with alcohol is that 它是 very good at blocking your REM 睡眠. So you'd been absent of REM 睡眠 the prior 夜间. You built up what we call a REM 睡眠 debt. And when you slept, all of a sudden what your 大脑 wanted more, 因为 it at least got some 睡眠, and there you're going to get mostly your 深度睡眠, the debt on the sheets of your balance account for 睡眠 was not so great for deep non-REM But you were very much in debt with REM. So what happened, as soon as you conked out on the couch, whoosh, you were probably straight into REM 睡眠. And then when you woke up, you had this mismatch in timing between consciousness and the release of paralysis. What did you 经验? REM 睡眠 paralysis.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Love it. I mean, hate it.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yes.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： I did not enjoy it, but I love your description 因为 it makes so very clear what happened. And for those that have had the 经验, it can be mildly stressful to terrifying. So thank you for providing the therapy that is 知识, and so that 人们 don't stress it too much. But we still dissuade 人们 from consuming alcohol prior to 睡眠.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Correct.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： I want to take a brief break and acknowledge our sponsor, InsideTracker. InsideTracker is a personalized nutrition platform that analyzes data from your blood and DNA to help you better 理解 your body and help you reach your 健康 goals. Now, I've long been a believer in getting regular blood work done, for the simple reason that many of the factors that impact your immediate and long-term 健康 can only be analyzed from a 质量 blood test. The problem with a lot of blood tests out there, however, is that you get 信息 back about metabolic factors, hormones, et cetera, but you don't know what to do with that 信息. With InsideTracker, they make it very easy to 理解 your results, and they also point you to 具体 directives that you can follow in the realm of nutrition, exercise, supplementation, even prescription drugs that can help bring the levels back into the ranges that are 最佳 for you. InsideTracker also offers InsideTracker Pro, which enables coaches and 健康 professionals to provide premium and personalized services by leveraging InsideTracker's analysis and recommendations with their clients. If you'd like to try InsideTracker, you can go to insidetracker.com/huberman to get 20% off any of InsideTracker's plans. Again, that's insidetracker.com/huberman. Okay, so we've been 讨论 complete paralysis, and of course, that's the inability to move.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Mm-hmm.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Let's 谈论 about the ability to move, meaning 运动学习. What is the relationship between 睡眠 and 学习 身体的 技能, either coordination of motor movement or, who knows, maybe increased power output or endurance? And if you would, could you comment on whether or not there are 具体 phases of 睡眠 that are specifically linked to 运动学习?

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah, great 问题. So what we've spoken about so far is that you need 睡眠 之后 学习 for that textbook-like 记忆, and that is one category of 记忆 that resides within your 大脑. There's another type of 记忆 that you've spoken about which many of us don't realize is 记忆, and that's what we call non-declarative or procedural 技能 记忆. So if I were to ask you, "Okay, Andrew, last 夜间 for dinner or yesterday for lunch, do you 记住 what it was that you had to eat?" And my guess is that you could probably tell me. So do you 回忆 what some of that food was?

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： My diet's pretty boring. In the sense I tend to eat more or less the same thing every day, although 我 open to being flexible. Yesterday for lunch, I had two grass-fed hamburger patties, maybe a little bit of rice, a sliced cucumber, some tomatoes, and 因为 我 a drive-by blueberry eater, there were some blueberries out on the counter, and I had several large fistfuls of those. And then I washed it down with some water and a half mug, just like this, of some cold brew sugar-free yerba mate.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： And I can confirm, folks, I was there at the incident, and that's exactly what he had. But did everyone who is watching or listening just realize what happened in this room today? Something that Einstein suggested would never be possible, that Andrew just traveled back in time. That using this incredible gift of 记忆, you folded time, almost like a concertina compressing it, and you raced back within milliseconds. You were shaking your head, yes, I know what I had. And you raced back into that catalog of all of your previous lunches. You found the correct manila folder for that 具体 lunch, all of the details, and out it popped. That is a spectacularly complex computational 过程 that your 大脑's 记忆 系统 accomplished within milliseconds. 它是 stunning what we have as this gift of 记忆. But as I said, there's another type of 记忆. So if I were to ask you, "Okay, how do you ride a bike?" 它是 very difficult. There is no textbook for here is how to ride a bike. The way that you do it when you're a child is that you are taught how to learn how to ride a bike by being on it. So if I were to say, 因为 我 a longtime cyclist, how do I take a right turn with my bicycle? The obvious suggestion would be, well, you turn the handlebars. If you turn the handlebars at 30 miles an 小时 trying to go around a right bend, you're going to crash very quickly. What, in fact, you do is you alter the steering angle just a little, but you lean, and that is what we call non-declarative, meaning you can't declare to me what it is that you know. You just have to show me through action and behavior. This is 技能 学习, and we use it for things like sports, surgical procedures, flying planes. There are so many, musical 表现 as well, so many aspects. So we wanted to then say, well, 睡眠 is helpful 之后 学习 for fact-based 记忆, but what about this other type of 记忆? And in truth, I didn't come up with the idea. It was given to me back in the, gosh, 我 aging myself, in the early 2000s. I was back in the UK, and I gave a lecture for the decade of the 大脑, which it was back then. And at the end of the course, I'd spoken a little bit about 睡眠 and this informational processing, but no 证据 for motor 技能 记忆. And this gentleman, lovely gentleman, old gentleman with a sort of a white beard. I 记住 his tweed jacket, this green hue. It was beautiful. And he came up to me at the end, and he said, "Look, 我 a musician. 我 a pianist." And I was fascinated by what you said about 睡眠. Sometimes I'll sit down and 我 学习 a new piece, and I just don't seem to be able to get it, and I practice, practice, and practice into the 晚上, and then I just stop. And then I come back the next day and I sit down at the piano, and I can just play. Do you think that's 睡眠? And of course, at that moment, my mind starts just Rolodexing with ideas and 我 thinking, gosh, there's the next 10 years of my work and grants. And so I sort of said, look, I think 它是 a fascinating hypothesis. It could also be that you're just maybe a little bit tired in the 晚上. But 它是 entirely possible. I don't know of any 证据 yet that supports that.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： I suppose the alternative hypothesis that there's simply a certain amount of time that needs to elapse 之后 experiencing something new that one wants to learn. The trigger for 学习 is, I don't know, some biochemical/neural signal that's like a wave front, and it takes a while for that wave to go ashore, which is 学习. And that independent of how much 睡眠 one gets or the 质量 of 睡眠, that the 学习 could occur. I suppose that's one idea.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： No, that's in fact precisely the central hypothesis that we then set out to test, which is that maybe 它是 practice, then some time that helps you create that perfect motor routine. That's one hypothesis, but let's split that apart. Maybe 它是 time, but time spent awake, or is it time, but time spent asleep? So we designed a 研究 to disambiguate between those two. Both groups learned a motor 技能 task, and 它是 very much like 学习 a piano, and you learn a sequence of movements, let's just say 4-1-3-2-4. And we have you type that out over and over again for periods of 30 seconds, and then you rest for 30 seconds, and then you do it again. You do 12 of those trials. And sure 足够, practice seemed to get you better, and you were 学习, and your 学习 curve went up. And then we brought those participants back 12 小时 later, and we retested them on that same motor 记忆. Half of those participants spent that 12 小时 awake. The others had a 夜间 of 睡眠 in between, an eight-小时 夜间 of 睡眠. When we brought the 人们 who had learned in the 早晨 and tested in the 晚上 without 睡眠, they had retained that 记忆. They were no worse. They were just no better. But in the 人们 who had slept, what was stunning was that they had improved their 表现 output speed by 20%, and they'd improved their accuracy by almost 37%.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Wow.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： So, in other words, it wasn't time that you needed to produce perfection. It was time with 睡眠. In other words, you've often heard the statement, practice makes perfect, but we violated that edict. It wasn't practice that makes perfect. 它是 practice with a 夜间 of 睡眠 that makes or leads to perfection. In other words, 之后 学习, your 大脑 continues to improve in the absence of any further practice. However, that 学习 occurs exclusively 期间 periods of offline 睡眠 and not across equivalent time periods while you're awake. Now, what was interesting in the group that remained awake across those 12 小时, we then actually brought them back 之后 a further 12 小时, but now 之后 a 夜间 of 睡眠, and they showed that beautiful 益处.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： So the 睡眠 that can, let's say, enhance, although I think what we're really talking about here that consolidates 运动学习-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... can arrive the 夜间 之后, meaning one finishes, let's say, 学习 at, I don't know, 11:00 a.m., and then they 睡眠 later that 夜间 or the following 夜间, and in both instances, that 睡眠 can enhance or, let's say, 巩固 the 运动学习 that occurred.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： That's right. So it was to your 问题, actually, that we discussed earlier, and I 回忆 now I didn't 回答 it, which is that the things that you learn throughout the day, you don't have to worry about 学习 them really close to bedtime so that they're available and accessible for this 睡眠-dependent work of 睡眠 之后 学习. It seems to be that the human 大脑, and we've plotted this, we've looked at what point does the 大脑 sort of fail in terms of its ability to place on hold, sort of on the runway, ready to take off into the 巩固 phase. And it seems to be about 16 小时-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Mm-hmm

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： ... that you can hold on to those freshly formed 记忆 for about 16 小时, and then you get the chance to 睡眠 and 巩固 them. So if you learn at 11:00 in the 早晨 or if you learn at 7:00 p.m. in the 晚上, don't worry about that. Those 记忆 are still going to be gathered together in the beautiful receptive arms of 睡眠 and then knitted up and enhanced when it comes to procedural 记忆. And by the way, that's a key difference to those two types of 记忆. 睡眠 will take fact-based 记忆 and simply save them so that you don't 遗忘. It doesn't necessarily boost them anymore. It just simply prevents you from forgetting, which is what would happen otherwise across a waking day.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Ah, key point. 它是 not enhancement, 它是 巩固 of, or essentially, the way I might think about it is the new 信息 is put into a potential 记忆 bank, and that 信息 is either flushed or maintained depending on whether or not you get 睡眠.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： That's right. In-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： There's no enhancement. Enhancement would be supernormal levels of 记忆 if you 睡眠.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： And that's the case for textbook-like 记忆. In other words, 睡眠 comes in and it stems the blood flow of forgetting from the 记忆 wound, as it were, to get I don't know why I came up with... That's a terrible analogy, but I think you-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： No, I like it. I guess we might say hemorrhage, right? Like 它是-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yes.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Okay.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： So 睡眠 comes in and prevents that from happening. But with motor 记忆, it is enhancement. 它是 that when you're awake across the day, you don't get any worse, which is what happens with fact textbook 记忆. You hold that 表现, but then 睡眠 comes in and it boosts you even further. You get a nice 益处 without doing anything further. So then the 问题 became, to your point, if 睡眠 is doing that, if 它是 not practice that makes perfect, but practice with 睡眠, what is it about the 睡眠? So we looked at their 睡眠 physiology, and what we found were two interesting components. First, it seemed to be related to that lighter form of stage two non-REM 睡眠. I told you that textbook 记忆 requires deep non-REM 睡眠阶段 three and four, casting back to episode one. Motor 记忆, more dependent on stage two, and those beautiful spindles that are the hallmark of beginning your stage two. The more of those that you had, the greater the 记忆 益处 the next day. We then wanted to say, well, is this effect simply something to do with the nighttime? 因为 that's the other hypothesis. 它是 not really about 睡眠, 它是 just something about nighttime-ness, 因为 in all of the 研究 I described so far, they're all happening at 夜间, and at 夜间 they were sleeping. So is it really nighttime or is it specifically 睡眠? So now we did a 小睡 研究 with motor 技能 学习. We repeated that, and sure 足够, even though that time period was across the day, not 期间 夜间-ness, they showed this beautiful motor 技能 益处 if they napped versus if they did not. And then in that 小睡 研究, I was telling you that they were 学习 the sequence with the right non-dominant hand, and we selected all right-handers to make it equal. And they were typing 4-1-3-2-4, 4-1-3-2-4. And that right hand, as well you know, is controlled by the left motor cortex. So in the 小睡 研究 when we recorded their 睡眠, we used very high density EEG, so lots and lots of sensors on top of the head, so we could map with high fidelity resolution the surface of the 大脑 or the surface of the scalp and infer what's going on in the 大脑. And what was interesting is that, yes, those 睡眠 spindles, the more of them that you had in the 小睡, the better your motor 技能 学习 was. But there seemed to be a lateralized effect such that the 睡眠 spindle activity on the right side of the 大脑, which controls the left hand, which was not working, that showed no spindle increase in activity. However, on the right-hand activity that invoked activation in the left motor cortex, that left motor cortex, and specifically the hand region, showed a local increase in spindle activity. And subsequent work and work prior to ours had demonstrated that 它是 not 睡眠 physiology globally. 它是 almost as though your 睡眠 physiology responds to the mapping of the 记忆 in the 大脑. Wherever the 记忆 is, that's where 睡眠, when you go to 睡眠, sort of starts massaging the cortex so that you get that plasticity. 它是 almost like a good masseuse. You sort of sit down, they say, "Where are your problem points?" And you say, "它是 here and here." And so they don't give you a general massage. They go to work on the regions that have been working hardest, that require greatest 注意力. 睡眠 does that.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： That's amazing and reminds me of some of this work that was done, I think in the late '90s, early 2000s. Richard Morris and colleagues over in, I think he was in Edinburgh, talked about synaptic tagging. This notion that animals or humans perform or learn some new motor 技能, maybe navigation of a novel environment, maybe a motor 技能 of the 4-1-2-3-4 that you described, keys on a piano or something like that. And then it was acknowledged that the changes in the connections between neurons don't occur immediately, which meant that there had to be some sort of tag or label to the synapses that marked them for 巩固 later for plasticity, long-term potentiation, things of that sort. The names don't really matter. I think later it became clear based on Marcus Frank's work and others that indeed 期间 睡眠, the hard rewiring of the nervous 系统 occurs, plasticity occurs. But what you're saying is that there's a high degree of specificity, meaning the 具体 circuits that were active and required for the 学习 are the 具体 circuits that are modified, which on the face of it one could say, well, of course. But what that means is that 期间 睡眠, the neurons of the 大脑 are able to chemically or electrically or both signal like, this is where there needs to be some modifications done. And then like a 夜间 crew, the 大脑 self-induces its own changes, which is remarkable.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： It really is.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： 它是 really remarkable.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： 它是 almost as though there are red flags that are planted in the territories that have undergone 学习-dependent plasticity, and they are calling out almost like hungry mouths that are in plasticity famine for the feast relief that comes by way of 睡眠.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Do we know what the factors are that are released in 睡眠 that allow that to occur? Or 我 guessing there are many. 人们 love to 谈论 about 大脑-derived neurotrophic factor, BDNF, which is a very interesting molecule, but 它是 probably just one of a panoply of molecules that are 重要.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： We don't know necessarily the 神经化学 processes, although some 人们 have manipulated plasticity and then blocked it with 不同 types of NMDA, which is a certain type of receptor in the 大脑 for excitatory activity, which is the underlying basis of 大脑 plasticity. So that certainly is dependent, but what's interesting about the 睡眠 spindles, I said in the first episode that they burst somewhere between about 12 to 15 times per second. Brr, brr, brr If you apply that type of stimulation to a particular neuronal circuit within the 大脑, that seems to be one of the, and 它是 not the only, but one of the ideal sort of sweet spot tickling of neurons that forces them to say, "Ooh, I think I should strengthen this circuit."

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Mm-hmm.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： So 它是 almost as though these 睡眠 spindles are ideally designed at the frequency, at the sort of tickling 层面 of neurons to stimulate exactly what we think is the underlying basis of strengthening a 记忆, which is at the 层面 of the neurons, the strengthening of synapses.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： So interesting, 因为 we hear this fire together, wire together, high frequency transmission between neurons is what creates plasticity, but this is literally a replay of previously, meaning earlier that day or the previous day, as you pointed out, activity in the given circuit being replayed, not unlike the work that you talked about earlier, the fast replay of neurons in the hippocampus. But here 它是 not necessarily just in the hippocampus, it can be in the neocortex or other structures, that then builds up the vigor with which that circuit can function in the 白天, AKA 学习. 它是 super interesting. You mentioned that this is occurring largely in stage two of 睡眠-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... not in 快速眼动 睡眠. Is this business of stage two being the main period of 睡眠 in which 运动学习 occurs unique to 运动学习? In other words, cognitive 信息 surely can get wired into the 大脑 at 夜间, but is that largely associated just with 快速眼动 睡眠? What this would suggest, in other words, is that the earlier stages of 睡眠 one and two, and heading into three and four, serves a 具体 purpose, which is 巩固 of motor 技能 and 运动学习 from the previous one or two days.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： It does seem to be that stage two. Stage one is, we now think of more of a transitional stage, but we will speak perhaps when we 讨论 the idea of 创造力, that it also may have a 记忆 function, that very light first step of 睡眠. Stage two is certainly related to motor 技能. In fact, stage two is fascinating. We used to think of it as just the stage that you had to go into to get to 深度睡眠, and the stage that you had to go back through to get up to REM 睡眠.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Mm-hmm.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Never made any sense to me. Why? 因为 stage two non-REM 睡眠 is about 40% to 50% of your 夜间. Why would you spend 40% to 50% of your time asleep when 它是 just simply a gate to get to something better? You would spend more time in the something that's better stages. So we started to find functions, and stage two is distributed throughout the 夜间, but those 睡眠 spindles in stage two are not evenly distributed throughout the 夜间. You get some of them in the first quarter, more of them in the second quarter of 睡眠, certainly more in the third quarter, but you get a lot more of those 睡眠 spindles in the last quarter of the 夜间. And in fact, when we looked at the overnight 研究, where we had 人们 learn in the 晚上, tested the next day, we recorded their 睡眠 in between. Yes, 睡眠 spindles predicted, and stage two predicted how much better they were the next day, but it was especially stage two in the last quarter of the 夜间. Let's say 我 going to bed at, just for argument's sake, for ease, midnight, and 我 waking up at 8:00. 它是 in that sort of 6:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. range when I, if I was going to 睡眠 at that time, would be getting my stage two. And I find that interesting 因为 it is the time of 夜间 that we all feel 它是 okay to cut short to get a jump start on the day. 它是 this modern life erosion of our 睡眠 time, and what these findings would suggest is that you are short-changing your 大脑 of some significant motor 记忆 表现, especially those classic Olympic coaches that have their athletes training until 8:00 in the 晚上, and then they're in bed by sort of 10:00 or 11:00, but they have them waking up at 5:00, back on the athletic field at 6:00. But they would gain some additional motor 记忆 益处 if you just let them 睡眠 a little bit longer.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： I 回忆 there was a 研究 done at Stanford, relatively small 研究, but interesting nonetheless 因为 I think it was the basketball team that was- ... asked to spend, I think, an additional two 小时 in bed.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： 它是 a 睡眠 extension 研究.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Yeah. And they were even told that they could do other things in bed besides 睡眠. There might have been some specifications of things they should not do in bed 期间 that time. But at least by self-report, some of the students said that they slept a bit more, or they relaxed a bit more in bed. And indeed, when compared to the control group, there was a significant improvement in their, I 遗忘 if it was three throw, free throw percentage, excuse me, or other metrics of basketball 表现.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah, it was the point-scoring 表现. It was the speed up and down the court, and it was a great 研究 done by Cheri Maher at Stanford University. And she's done epic work with athletes to sort of replicate those findings. And the athlete story is interesting. Some 人们 may be saying, "Well, didn't you just make a hop, skip, and a jump from four, one, three, two, four to inferring complex motor 技能?" I thought about that, so we did a new series of 研究 where we-- This is control. That's the nice thing about the sort of typing on a sequence. You can really measure that 表现 with high sort of accuracy. But we then switched it to a bimanual task, much more like 学习 to play a piano. And you were 学习 sequences that were 12, 14 items in length, and you had to learn them over and over. And we had a hypothesis Would 睡眠 fail at the task when motor 技能 表现 became much more complex, or would it be 不同? And what we found was that the more and more complex the motor 技能 became, the greater and the greater the 益处 of 睡眠 by way of that 巩固 effect. And then I started to hear something, 因为 I would often be in the room as these participants were 学习 the sequence, and then as they were testing. And my ears started to hear something that I couldn't quite believe to begin with. They would start to learn these motor sequences, but they would seem to have these pauses, and 它是 what we call chunking in motor 技能 记忆. So instead of 41324, 41324, they would do 41324, 41324. And I would have them be using the same keyboard, and I got to know the sound of the keyboard, so I could hear it. 41324, 41324. And then when they came back the next day, yes, they were performing faster, but they weren't just doing 41324, 41324. They were simply doing 41324, 41324. There was no gap at all. So we went into the individual responses, individual motor sort of finger responses. And sure 足够, 之前 睡眠, there were these very clear problem points, almost these pain points in the motor 记忆 sequence. But then when we came back 之后 a 夜间 of 睡眠 and looked at their data, it wasn't as though 睡眠 simply grabbed the motor 技能 记忆 sort of profile and lifted everything up. 睡眠 was selectively going 之后 those pain points and improving them. And that, to me, was interesting 因为 that's the goal of a good athlete. It is automaticity. You don't want to be thinking about it. At some point, you go from a very conscious act of deliberately trying to 记住 what you should be doing, to then not thinking about it at all. 它是 only automaticity that gives you that ability not to think, and it operates below the 层面 of consciousness.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Super interesting. And here we're talking about 具体 changes in the 大脑, in terms of neural activity, et cetera, that occur 期间 睡眠 when we've been exposed to or engaged in a particular novel for us motor 技能. And you see these spindles in stage two, et cetera. But does it work the other way as well? Meaning, does the 过程 of trying to learn a new motor 技能 enhance certain components of 睡眠 or maybe even one's ability to 睡眠?

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Mm-hmm.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Years ago, I heard that practicing unilateral leg movements, this is perhaps a crazy idea, but it makes sense in the context of what we're talking about. Practicing unilateral leg movements, things like everyone's familiar with squats and deadlifts and things of that sort, but there are some one-legged movements.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Like a pistol squat, right?

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Like a pistol squat, that's pretty hard. If one can do them, 我 always impressed. Bulgarian split squats, foot up on the bench and then squatting down with a dumbbell, things like that, or just unilateral movements that require a lot of 心理的 注意力 to the 表现 of that movement. Could be in the gym, but it could be something else as well. You think about a dancer trying to learn how to organize their steps, where they have to pay careful 注意力 to right versus left foot, right? They always say 人们 who can't dance have two right feet or two left feet.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： By the way, for those listening, Andrew's looking at me right now when you're saying two right feet.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： No, no, no.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： And rightfully so.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： No, I have no 知识 of your-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Who you've been speaking to

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... dancing ability or challenges.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Absence thereof.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： As I 回忆, there may have been some very preliminary data about changes in the amount of certain 睡眠阶段 according to whether or not someone had tried to learn a 技能, in this case, unilateral limb 表现 the previous day. So in other words, if one wants to improve their 睡眠, would the attempt to learn a new motor 技能 be one avenue to improve one's 睡眠?

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： 它是 interesting. If you look at some of the data, 它是 a little bit mixed in terms of motor 技能 学习, but there are some 研究 demonstrating that 它是 true for textbook-like 记忆, and there's a 研究, gosh, done many years ago, again, by the great German group of Jan Born. And they simply asked the 问题, if you were to just not be 学习 very deliberately and intensively through a textbook-like set of 信息, and then we just measure your 睡眠 to get a baseline, and then we force you to have a very long, very intensive 学习 session of these facts, and then we measure your 睡眠 again, is there any difference relative to the non-intensive 学习 day versus the intensive 学习 day? And indeed, what they found was that there was an increase in their deep non-REM 睡眠, in their deep slow wave 睡眠. And again, we think 它是 almost, we describe it as a homeostatic response, which is just a fancy way of saying that when the 大脑 is driven to undergo a demand, then 睡眠 will respond to try to accommodate that demand. And so I would say that there are probably many other things, and we discussed this in episode two in terms of, A, how to optimize your 睡眠, that probably carry a bigger bang for your buck in terms of optimizing and enhancing your 睡眠. But is there any 证据 to suggest that that's the case? There does seem to be some 证据 in the literature, yeah.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： So interesting. I certainly know the 经验 of trying to learn a lot of 信息 and then feeling like my 睡眠 is that much deeper. Although I've also experienced the challenges in, quote-unquote, turning my 大脑 off when I've been trying-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... to learn something, and then 它是 late in the 晚上. 遗忘 the 咖啡因 component. Just the 信息 is spooling in my head, maybe some A pre-test anxiety, that kind of thing. So I think that the tools and 方案 that you offered so generously in episodes one, two, and three are especially 重要 under those conditions. 学习 how to really taper off one's 层面 of thinking and planning and arousal in the 晚上, really bring things down so that one can access that 睡眠. One only wishes that the more we did 期间 the day- ... the easier it would be to 睡眠.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： I think to some extent that's true, but there's some conditions in which doing more, thinking about more, and I guess that's sort of the irony, right? I interrupted myself, but on purpose, that wouldn't it be wonderful if-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： I love the outro

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... the amount and ease of 睡眠 was directly proportional to how much we needed to 睡眠. That's one of the-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... tricks in this whole business.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Fickle 系统 sometimes.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Right. Sometimes when we really need 睡眠, we're dealing with something psychologically challenging, or we need to learn something, we have an exam, that often can be when 它是 most difficult to 睡眠.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Gets right in the way of what we need most. Although, coming back to your point, I think 身体的 activity does seem to be one of those things that is very good, and 我 remiss to have not included it in the optimization or the unconventional tips. There is a very good robust literature now demonstrating that if you are physically active 期间 the day, you can boost the 质量 of your 睡眠, particularly your 深度睡眠 at 夜间. There are some subtle differences in terms of whether you're doing aerobic versus anaerobic, so let's say versus doing a spin bike class for an 小时 versus lifting resistance, or doing resistance training for an 小时 or strength training. There's subtle differences, but net that overall the big picture view is that when you perform exercise, you drive a response from enhanced 睡眠, particularly 深度睡眠 at 夜间. And I think many 人们 have had that 经验. You've been out on a long hike, maybe a 10, 12-mile hike, or you've just been working in the garden doing really sort of long landscaping work throughout the day, six or seven 小时, and you just come in and you go to bed that 夜间 and you just know that this is going to be the most royal 夜间 of 睡眠 that you could... You know it ahead of time, sort of ear hole to elbow. And that 证据 is now very clear. The one interesting thing if you dig into that data, though, you can drive increases in 深度睡眠 by way of exercise. It does seem to come at a little bit of cost to REM 睡眠. Exercise may throttle back some of your REM 睡眠. Now, don't fear that. It may just simply be that every 夜间, and we know this, my 睡眠 and my stages of 睡眠 are going to be much 不同 to yours in how they are structured and how they play out. But even within me, the same individual, Matt, my 睡眠阶段 vary from one 夜间 to the next, to the next. Some of that is idiosyncratic. Others reasons depend on what I've been doing 期间 the day. And so it may be that we don't need to get concerned about that modest reduction in REM due to exercise-enhanced non-REM, 因为 它是 simply that when you've gone through that form of activity as a human being 期间 the day, what you need is that type of 睡眠 more so than perhaps REM 睡眠. And 因此, the next 夜间, things calibrate back down. Let's say I wasn't as active, I just sort of went to work 期间 the day, and 我 back to baseline again. So I don't get too concerned about that, but I just want to bring it up. 它是 there in the literature.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Yeah, I think 它是 a very interesting point, and one just has to trust that nature knows best in modifying the percentage of 不同 睡眠阶段 according to our 白天 activity. Again, highlighting the key relationship. I mean, the closely tethered relationship between 白天 activity and 睡眠, and vice versa.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Correct. Yeah, and 它是 a reciprocal loop 因为 what we found is that exercise 期间 the day can enhance 睡眠 at 夜间. But also what we found is that 睡眠 at 夜间 enhances your athletic 表现 the following day, and 我 not just talking about motor 技能 记忆 upstairs in the 大脑. 我 talking about 身体的 activity in the body. And if you limit 睡眠 to, let's say, less than six 小时, the data demonstrates that your peak muscle 表现 is decreased, your peak vertical jump height decreases, your time to exhaustion decreases. In some 研究, it was up to 30%. So if you're training for a 10K marathon, but you don't get 足够 睡眠 the 夜间 之前, you're done by 7:00. We also know that it decreases, perhaps more than almost any of those, and 它是 striking, the 大脑's motivation to exercise at all. So in fact, many 人们 may be able to get close to their peak muscle strength when they are underslept. Chances are they're probably never going to get the chance to express that 因为 their motivation to exercise just drops off, and I think many 人们 will resonate that you had a bad 夜间 of 睡眠, I just don't want to go to the gym the next day. The final part of that is injury risk. There is a significantly elevated injury risk. And if you ask most athletes, "Okay, what am I particularly concerned about? Is it my 表现 or if I had some kind of injury that knocks me out for the rest of the season?" And so I've had the fortunate chance to work with many professional teams of 不同 kinds, and gradually they are realizing what I've sort of long said, and 它是 a crass statement, but I think 睡眠 is probably the greatest legal 表现-enhancing drug that most athletes are not abusing 足够.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： I could not agree more. I feel like every time I say 睡眠 is the bedrock of 心理健康, 身体健康, and 表现, 它是 sometimes perceived as just kind of like, "Oh, yeah, 睡眠. We need to 睡眠." But there's no 问题 that the positive effects of getting Excellent 睡眠 on a consistent basis far outweigh and perform any kind of supplement or even 表现-enhancing drug. In fact, most supplements and 表现-enhancing drugs that can indeed improve 表现 of various kinds seem to only function, or function best, certainly, on a backdrop of excellent 睡眠.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： And I should say that I think you've done a brilliant job of being very explicit about the fact that you need to get all of the basics in place, and then 它是 great to think about fine-tweaking with optimization of things like supplementation and all of these other things. And I think sometimes that message has been maybe a little bit more mixed in the social media environment, that we often don't think about the basics, and we go straight to supplementation, where you would say, gosh, there's actually a log order of magnitude 益处 that's on the table if only you were to do some of the basic things that your grandmother would probably tell you. Eat right, get your stress sorted out, do some 身体的 activity, and make sure that you get some 睡眠. Do those things and you're very far along. Now there's more opportunity on the table for fine-tuning, as you've elegantly discussed. But I think I just want to acknowledge that I think you've done a really great job of being balanced in that message. And I hope 人们 in the general sphere can appreciate how hard that is to do. 它是 not an easy thing when you are talking about supplementation, 因为 at first it sounds as though, gosh, all of the speak, and you describe great data, means that it is the holy grail of enhanced human beings. But you're always careful to say this 之后 the foundation. And I can give a very good 例子 with 睡眠. Let's say that you're trying to manage your weight and lose weight, and you're dieting, but you're not getting sufficient 睡眠. What we've discovered is that, yes, you will lose weight when you're dieting, even though you're not getting 足够 睡眠. The problem is that almost 60% of the weight that you lose will come from lean muscle mass and not fat. In other words, when you are underslept and dieting, you keep what you're trying to lose, which is the fat, and you lose what you wish to keep, which is the muscle. So your body does something very interesting in its removal of 不同 types of energy stores in your body when you are not slept. It becomes very stingy with fat, and it will not give it up when you are 睡眠-deprived, which is very interesting. Why would that be, by the way?

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Muscle's such a metabolically demanding tissue. By not sleeping well, you're sending signals that there really isn't the capacity to take care of what you already have, much less increase the size of the engine.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： That's exactly right. And then think about fat, which is, in terms of its energy unit 益处, it has at least perhaps twice the caloric value that protein does. So if you are underslept, that is a warning sign to any evolutionary species past that things are dire. So whatever 我 going to do, this is break glass in case of emergency situation. And if you're not getting 足够 calories, 我 going to hold onto the thing that has the highest caloric value right until the end, which is fat, and 我 going to give away the stuff that doesn't have as much caloric 益处 因为 I am in a caloric deficit right now. Now, of course, that's strange 因为 the 人 trying to lose weight perhaps is rightfully trying to lose weight based on them being somewhat overweight. But that's the biology that we think explains why that's the case. 它是 not just a strange phenomenon. 它是 a very logical one.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Yeah, it is a logical one. And thanks for the support around my constant voicing and revoicing of the pillars of 健康 that you mentioned, exercise. Well, I put it in the order of 睡眠 as the most 重要 pillar, and then one could argue about the order of the others, but in no 具体 order. Light, which dovetails with 睡眠. But nutrition, movement, exercise, social connection, stress modulation, these kinds of things.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah, the speed with which that comes out of your mouth tells you how many times you've said it, and you've said it over and over. 它是 wonderful.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Oh, well, thank you. 它是 interesting 因为 they are the basics, but they are basics that need to be re-upped every 24 小时, and so often I feel like we all need to be reminded every 24 小时. One of the most common questions I get is what should I take? If I had a dollar for every time somebody said, "What should I take?" I'd keep podcasting, but I'd be a gazillionaire. But my response is always the same, which is, how's your 睡眠? The first 问题 I say is how's your 睡眠? And then they think 我 going to suggest a 睡眠 supplement, but I want to know whether or not 人们 are sleeping well on a consistent basis, and that opens up a whole set of discussions, and then inevitably we 遗忘 about the what one should take conversation. I think 它是 the rare individual who's sleeping very well every 夜间 of their life. There are such individuals, and then the what should I take conversation makes sense in a certain context.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yes.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： There's something I wanted to just return to for a moment 之前 I move on to the next topic, which is you mentioned all the significant deficits that occur in motor 表现 when one has not slept that well the 夜间 之前. Grip strength, vertical jump, motivation, et cetera. We're not here to deliver anything except the facts to 人们 at Wade & Weale. We're certainly not here to soften the blow of reality. But there are a good number of 人们 that will have, say, a 身体的 表现, like a race. They're training for a half marathon, or they have a big game the next day, or they have some 表现 event the next day. And by virtue of butterflies, anxiety, travel ... an alarm going off in a hotel in the middle of the 夜间, I've had that 经验, et cetera, that they may not get the best 夜间's 睡眠 the 夜间 之前. And obviously, there are going to be ramifications of that. But 我 reminded of a 研究 that was done by Ali Khrom's lab at Stanford, where 人们 wear 睡眠 trackers, and they actually knew how much and how well or poorly they slept the 夜间 之前. I don't know how detailed the analysis was, but it was Stanford 睡眠 Center, so presumably it was reasonably detailed. And then the next day, with that 知识 in hand, either lied to the 人们 or told them the truth about how well they had slept the 夜间 之前 or poorly. For instance, if someone had got eight 小时 of great 睡眠 the 夜间 之前, they might have told them, "Hey, you got eight 小时 of great 睡眠 the 夜间 之前." Or they might've been in a condition where they said, "Hey, you know what? Your 睡眠 last 夜间 wasn't that great."

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Or if somebody got five 小时 of 睡眠, they might have said, "Hey, you got eight 小时 of great 睡眠." So there was a lot of lying involved in this 研究.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： But basically what they observed is that 表现 in, I think it was motor 技能 表现, but it might have been cognitive, but that's not the issue here. The point is that much of our 表现 can be dependent on our subjective 理解 of how well or poorly we slept the 夜间 之前. In other words, there can be belief effects.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： That's right.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： So this is one of the concerns about placing too much emphasis on the one poor 夜间's 睡眠.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： And obviously, 人们 should be mindful of injury, as you pointed out, but if someone has a big race or a big event the next day and they just don't 睡眠 well-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... I think that we have to be careful that the mere 知识 that they're not going to perform as well, 因为 that's what the data say, can potentially be offset by the Ali Khrom 研究, which is if they believe like, hey, a lot of it is about what they believe about their own 睡眠 to be, which just tells you that 表现 can, and motivation presumably-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah, exactly

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... can override some of the physiology. And again, you can't rescue what you can't rescue.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： No, and I think 它是 a very good point 因为 it comes back to our discussion about the placebo effect in some ways, which is this is mind over matter.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Mm-hmm.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： And that your biological state. So one of the things I do when 我 working with professional athletes and we're doing 睡眠 tracking, often 我 working with a coach, and I will say 期间 that period where they're on the road, and now they've got seven games to play in the playoffs. Let's keep tracking their 睡眠, and let's you and I make sure that we're trying to optimize this athlete 因为 they've given consent, they want to have their 睡眠 as good as possible, and they want us to help them do that. But I say at that point, we will simply look at the data 夜间 之后 夜间, and then we can describe the data that they've been having at the end of the week 之后 they've finished the series. 因为 for exactly that reason, if you start giving them feedback, we don't want to erode confidence. And with 睡眠 trackers, there is such a thing called orthosomnia, and 它是 now a described situation. Orthosomnia, in medicine, words mean something. So ortho, 人们 will be familiar with in medicine, orthopedics, orthodontics. 它是 about getting things straight. Orthopedics, getting your bone straight. Orthodontics, getting your teeth straight. Orthosomnia is about trying to get your 睡眠 straight and being so worried about that, that it compromises your 睡眠. Now, we don't know exactly what proportion of 人们, it may be less than 10%, who use 睡眠 trackers. But I would say that to anyone listening, if you are tracking your 睡眠 with a tracker and you're experiencing this 睡眠-related anxiety, do one of two things. First, take my recommendation, which is that only on, let's say, a Sunday 下午, do you open up the app and check your data, so that way you can still be measuring your 睡眠, which is very helpful. But you don't have to get the anxiety 早晨 之后 早晨. The other is that if you are truly starting to get a very negative 经验, take it off, put it in the drawer, and just get your 睡眠 confidence back using some of the suggestions that we had in the optimization episode, and only then return to using that tracker. What's also interesting, it relates to what you were saying about beliefs and intention. They did another great 研究 where they looked at this cortisol rise in the 早晨 that you and I have discussed on this series many times, which starts to happen sort of just 之前 you're waking up and really rises into the 早晨. What they did was they brought participants into the laboratory, and they had them go to 睡眠 at around 11:00 at 夜间. And then in one group, they said, "We're going to wake you up at 7:00 AM in the 早晨." The other group, they said, "We're going to wake you up at 5:00 AM in the 早晨." Well, it turns out that both of those groups were woken up at 7:00 AM. But what was bizarre is that in the group that was told they were going to wake up at 5:00 AM, their cortisol release started to rise around 5:00 AM. In other words, just the 知识 之前 睡眠 that you're going to be woken up at 5:00 AM changed the non-conscious 大脑's release of a stock standard prototypical hormonal release 机制. And that comes right back to this idea that we were speaking about with time, that consciously we have lost time perception when we're sleeping, but non-consciously, it seems as though the 大脑 is still knowing what's going on 因为 for that early 早晨 flight, you wake up two 分钟 之前 your alarm. Well, perhaps the reason why is that you've learned that you have to wake up at that time, and you've changed your cortisol response, which would normally, 因为 you don't wake up for an early 早晨 flight every day, would normally not come for two 小时, but 它是 arriving earlier It just blew me away. I couldn't believe that the 大脑, non-consciously, could change a hormonal profile simply based on me telling you what time you were going to wake up the next 早晨.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Spectacular. And really, as you pointed out, really speaks to the fact that 期间 睡眠, there is a lot of processing going on, subconscious, unconscious cognitive processing. And we know this in the form of dreams, a topic that we'll 谈论 about in a subsequent episode of this series. But okay, so you've shared with us the clear value of getting the best possible 夜间's 睡眠 之前 what I call a bout of 学习.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： You also shared with us the clear value of getting 睡眠 之后 being exposed to some new 信息, AKA a bout of 学习, and you've explained to us the key relationship between 睡眠 and 运动学习, 学习 of new motor 技能. What are some other aspects of 大脑 and cognition for which 睡眠 exerts a significant positive effect?

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： So those, for a while, were the first two things that we really thought 睡眠 was doing for 学习 and 记忆, 睡眠 之前 学习 to make those 记忆, 睡眠 之后 学习 to 巩固 them and hit the save button. But then data started to emerge, and we started to look at this too, that 睡眠 was much more intelligent than we ever imagined when it comes to 信息 processing. 睡眠 doesn't simply just strengthen individual 记忆 like isolate islands unconnected. 睡眠 之后 学习 is almost a form of informational alchemy, that 睡眠 will take these new 记忆, and it will start to interconnect them and cross-link them with the new 信息 that you've learned, 因为 usually, 信息 that you're 学习 期间 the day is interconnected, and 睡眠 was building those connections between new 记忆. But also, it was integrating them into the back catalog of all of your past autobiographical 记忆 systems so that you woke up the next day, and you had a revised mind-wide web of associations. And a good 例子 of this, we did a 研究, gosh, very early on, where we asked the 问题, which stage of 睡眠 then is 重要 for this type of, I almost think of it as a very strange analogy, but almost like group therapy for 记忆. That at the end of the day, every new 记忆 gets a name badge, and 睡眠 gathers in all of these 记忆 into the same room, and it forces you, however, to speak to the 人们 not at the front of the room that you think you've got the most obvious connection with. It forces you to speak to the 人们 all the way at the back of the room that you don't think you've got really any connection with at all. But it turns out that you do, 因为 睡眠 doesn't simply build associations and connections. It does. It seems to bias the 大脑 towards building the most non-obvious distant associations. 它是 almost like a Google search gone wrong that 期间 the waking day, our 记忆, our 大脑 are still associative in how they can build links and connections. That's like page one of the Google search. So let's say that I type in Andrew Huberman, and the first page I get, the first hit is the Huberman Lab website. Great. But if I go to page 20, 它是 about a field hockey game in Utah and I think, "Hang on a second. What's Andrew doing?"

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Maybe you didn't know.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： But yeah, I know exactly.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： I don't think I've ever played field hockey.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Little did I know.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： I've been to Utah. 它是 a beautiful state.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Oh, 它是 beautiful.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Yeah.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： But if I look, I can actually see that there is a very distant, non-obvious association. I can 理解 why 它是 there. That's what 睡眠 seems to be over-indexing for in this associational framework. So then we ask, well, what is it about 睡眠? So we had participants perform anagram-solving tasks, and anagrams are simply these words that the letters are all jumbled up, and you have to kind of stare at them or work through them, and all of a sudden, you start to see which word it really is, 因为 at first, 它是 all jumbled up, and it makes no sense. But we didn't teach them it 之前 睡眠 and 之后 睡眠. We did something 不同. We woke them up out of 不同 stages of 睡眠. Why? Well, when you come out of 不同 stages of 睡眠, there is still some degree of the biology of that 睡眠 state that lingers in your 大脑, almost like vapors coming off the stage of 睡眠 that you've just exited, and it only lasts for about two 分钟 or so. But what was nice is that this anagram test you could do within two 分钟. So we would wake them up out of 不同 stages of 睡眠, and then we'd have them quickly do these anagrams. And I told you that for fact-based 记忆, that 睡眠 之后 学习 was 重要 to strengthen the individual 记忆, and it was particularly non-快速眼动 睡眠 that was doing that strengthening of the individual facts. Now what we found is that the association 创造力 益处 of 睡眠 was very 不同. That cross-linking 益处 came by way, it seemed, of REM 睡眠. 因为 when we woke them up out of REM 睡眠 compared to non-REM 睡眠, they were 30% more capable of solving these anagrams. And when we looked at how they were solving them, it was interesting. Coming out of non-REM 睡眠, it was very sort of analogical. It was very what we think of as very sort of convergent, very focused way of trying to logically solve the problem. But with REM 睡眠, it was much more divergent fluid intelligence. It was almost they were just standing back and waiting for it, and then boop, it just popped out in front of them. All the letters kind of reorganized and clicked into place. And then there was a subsequent 研究 that did something 不同. It looked specifically at creative insight, and it was a lovely 研究. And they performed something called the numeric number reduction test, which is one of those tests that psychologists love to administer and participants hate to perform. And here's what happens. You're shown a whole string of numbers, and you are given a certain set of rules, and you have to work through those number problems and come out with a final end 回答. And you're told that you're going to be judged simply on how many correct final end answers that you get. And you work through hundreds of these problems. What they don't tell you in the instructions, however, is that there is a hidden rule here embedded in that all of those sequences, all of the sequences are 不同 that you have to solve, but there is one common rule that binds them all together, which is that the second part, sort of the second component of the solution, so you're working through, let's say 它是 a 10-digit string number, and you have to apply these rules to the first number, then carry it through to the second number, and then to the third number. And the second partial number that you produce in this string of calculations to get to the final end 回答, it turns out to be always the same end 回答. So in other words, if you clue on to this hidden rule, all you have to do is work up to the first, let's say, 10% of every problem. You can just shortcut the rest of it, and you just write down the number 因为 you are told that the only thing we're going to judge you on is the end 回答. So they trained participants on these sort of numeric number reduction trials, and then they brought them back 之后 12 小时 of being awake, and no one seemed to have that light bulb moment of the sort of, "Okay, I get it." But then they did the same thing. They trained them, but now they trained them in the 晚上. They gave them a full eight 小时 of 睡眠. They came back the next 早晨, and there was a threefold increase in creative insight problem-solving ability. In other words, 人们 were coming back with that aha moment of the gig is up, I've got it, I know what you guys are trying to do, and 我 going to show you. Then they did something clever. They said, back to our 问题 of motor 技能 学习, well, is that really 睡眠 or is it just 昼夜节律? That 它是 just something about going through the 夜间 that gives you this kind of doo lally creative 益处. So they took another group. They taught them the 信息 in the 晚上, and they tested them the next 早晨, just like the 睡眠 group, but they kept them up all 夜间. So they went through nighttime NERS for that time period, and they showed no 益处 in the problem-solving.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Yeah, my 经验 is that 睡眠剥夺 leads to all sorts of ideas about how one is coming up with novel ideas and solutions, all of which completely suck 之后 two good nights 睡眠. But most of the time, it seems that 睡眠剥夺, intoxication of any kind, it gives one the impression that you're coming up with novel solutions, but really they're just novel.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah. That data is very clear that there was this misnomer that if I sort of go through the 夜间 and work sort of through into the 早晨, 我 just much more creative when 我 睡眠-deprived, and 它是 been tested and 它是 the opposite. Quite the opposite, in fact. What I also find interesting, though, about this 睡眠 and 创造力 log, it was always there in the literature that there are innumerable anecdotes of 人们 having 睡眠-inspired insight. 它是 almost as though when you wake up the next 早晨, having had that revised set of web connections in your 大脑, you can divine solutions to previously impenetrable problems. And there's a great 例子, I think, Dmitri Mendeleev, who at the time was trying to 回答 one of the most epic questions in human history. How do all of the known elements in the universe fit together in some logical order? And he was failing. He just could not. And he was so obsessed with this problem, he created playing cards with all of the 不同 elements of the universe and their atomic weights and their electron. And he would go on these long train rides, and he would just shuffle the cards, and he would deal the cards on the table 因为 he was just desperate to try to see what the pattern was. He was shuffling and shuffling and shuffling. And then the story goes, and 它是 written that one 夜间 he fell asleep and he dreamt, and he could start to see all of the cards just dancing around in front of his eyes, and then they snap together in this logical grid based on the atomic weight and the 不同 electron properties. And he wrote it down on the back of an envelope, which still exists to this date.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Really?

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah. And you can see it. And that was the initial basis for what we call the periodic table of elements.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Amazing.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： And it revolutionized human history. And 它是 not just in science. There's great 科学的 人们 who have won Nobel Prizes for 理解 neural transmission, Otto Loewi.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Well, and maybe 它是 worth rattling off a few brief examples 因为 they're so spectacular. Einstein was known for taking naps in the middle of the day, multiple times throughout the day in order to come up with novel solutions. I think the discovery of some of the organic-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： The benzene ring?

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： The benzene ring came to, 我 forgetting his name now.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： August Kekulé.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： In a dream. Thank you. There are numerous examples of fundamental 科学的 discoveries, that is 创造性洞见 That were anchored to real-world 实验 and theory, pure theory as well, that came to 人们 in their dreams. So what's interesting, though, is that there seems to be some sort of hydraulic pressure created by the waking or within wakefulness attempt to figure something out. So all of these 人们, to be very clear, didn't just 睡眠 to come up with solutions. They put a lot of hydraulic pressure-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Mm

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... feeding a lot of 信息, thinking about a problem in a structured or unstructured way, taking walks, focusing on their other demands of the day. But then when they went to 睡眠, clearly that 信息 was still being worked with-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... in 重要 ways. And then you were going to mention some examples from the arts, I think.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah, there's some great... I was born and raised in Liverpool, in England, and of course, famous for The Beatles and for Liverpool Football Club, and Everton as well, but 我 a Liverpool supporter. However, Paul McCartney has gone on record very clearly to say that two songs that were probably some of the most successful songs, "Yesterday" and "Let It Be," both came to him by way of dream-inspired insight. There's a lovely description, I think, in his biography. He was filming, it was either "Help!" or "A Hard Day's 夜间" down in London with the rest of The Beatles, and he was staying in a rental in Wimpole Street in London, and he was staying on the third floor. And in his bedroom, fortunately, there was a piano on the opposite side of the room. And he describes how he woke up one 早晨 with this beautiful melody by way of it was a string quartet that was playing it, and it was the melody for "Yesterday." And he went straight over to the piano, and he started playing it. And he said it was just so sumptuous, and he couldn't 记住 where he had heard it. And then 之后 a while, he remembered, "I haven't heard it anywhere 之前. It came to me by way of 睡眠." Same thing with "Let It Be." Obviously, Mother Mary comes to me singing songs or singing words of 智慧, let it be. And there's often been a suggestion that that has religious overtones in terms of Mother Mary. It actually is not. 它是 his mother, Mary McCartney . And he was having a hard time struggling with the fame of The Beatles at that moment. And one 夜间 he slept, and his mother, Mary, came to him and just said, "Relax. 它是 going to be okay. Stay true to yourself. Continue doing what you're doing. Just let it be." And he woke up, and he wrote the song.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： I love that story. And there's some actionable takeaways here that if I may, I just wanted to mention. A previous guest on this episode, in fact, he's been on the podcast twice, is the great Rick Rubin, right?

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Oh, I've listened to those.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Yeah. One of the most-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Absolute gem

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... legendary music producers of all time. And the second episode that we did with Rick, he gets heavily into some of his 方案, for lack of a better way to describe them. And one of the things that Rick does is when he wakes up in the 早晨, he makes it a point to, he takes walks, he gets sunshine, he hydrates, he does all of those things, but to try and make the transition between 睡眠 and wakefulness to be rather gradual. Almost to allow some of the components of 睡眠 to kind of bleed into the 早晨 and then allow wakefulness to come about. And in his case, he's able to push some of the more linear processing and procedural things to later in the day.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Mm-hmm.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： And I've spent a lot of time with Rick. 我 fortunate to be close friends with Rick, and I can tell you that he also spends a fair amount of time sitting or lying down, typically very still with his eyes closed, just thinking or allowing thoughts to emerge as part of his creative 过程. Now, he's certainly not the only one to do this, but he's a notable 例子. But what's the takeaway here? Should everyone be lying with their eyes closed when they first wake up? Perhaps, but there's some potential dos.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Mm.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： But I think there's a really strong don't. If one subscribes to the idea that 期间 睡眠, there is substantial reorganization of neural circuitry, AKA 学习, but also expansion of creative opportunity, as you've clearly pointed out, and there are data to support that statement, then it stands to reason that upon waking, there's a key opportunity to capture some of that 信息 that is now in your mind that was created the 夜间 之前. But that if you immediately look at your phone, that you eclipse that 过程 with sensory input from somebody else's ideas- ... and what's going on in the world. And 它是 not to say that looking at your phone first thing in the 早晨 is a cardinal sin or a violation of any kind of neural circuit requirement. But I, in an attempt to try and capture some of the 学习 and 创造力 that occurs 期间 睡眠, have tried for a while now to not look at my phone for at least the first 30 分钟 之后 waking. 它是 very challenging to do-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： It is, yeah

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... for most everybody. But rather to let some of the ideas from 睡眠 percolate up, and I will often go be making a 早晨 cup of tea or something, and then go running to my office to write something down that suddenly springs to mind.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Mm-hmm.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： And then I'll 记住 that this was something that came to me in a dream the 夜间 之前. None of which as significant as the benzene ring or the periodic table or the kind of works that Rick has produced. But I think that we need to be cautious about not short-circuiting these 创造性洞见 that no doubt can come to us in 睡眠.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： I think 它是 very well worth just even for your own 心理健康, firstly, not to just wake up and start your reception of the world, but to do some, as we've mentioned, reflection on what you've just experienced by way of sleeping. And it doesn't necessarily have to be that you're trying to 回忆 your dreams. Just sit with whatever your thoughts are Think about the day ahead, think about the days prior, and there is some 益处. And the creative 益处 there, you mentioned Einstein. Another one that is often mentioned to me is Edison, Thomas Edison, the inventor. And Edison was claimed to be a short sleeper. 人们 will say, "Well, he was a brilliant inventor, but he said that he didn't 睡眠 very much." Turns out that Edison was a habitual napper 期间 the day, and I've got lots of pictures of him 小睡 on his workbench in his studio, him 小睡 in the garden.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： I love it.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： And 它是-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Well, I took a 45-minute 小睡 today.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Yeah.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： And it was, he-- And what was-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： And 我 no Edison-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Well, I-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... but I subscribe to his 方案. Yeah.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： But he understood the creative brilliance of 睡眠, to your point about writing things down, and he used it ruthlessly as a tool. And here's what he would do. 它是 genius. He would take a pair of steel ball bearings in his right hand, and he would sit in his office on a reclining chair with a rest for his arm, and then he would put a pad of paper and a pen next to him, and then he would gradually start to relax off. But what he'd done was he'd used a metal saucepan and turned it upside down and placed it underneath the armrest. And as he was drifting off into that state, into that sort of liminal state, so he didn't go too far into 睡眠, what would happen is that his muscle tone would gradually relax. He would release the steel ball bearings. They would crash on the saucepan, wake him up, and then he would start to write down all of the ideas that he was having from that liminal state.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Oh, you said saucepan.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Saucepan. Sorry.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： That's why it w- no, no, that's okay. But very-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Bad accent

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... so it made a clanging sound-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： A crashing. So it was a metal saucepan underneath.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Got it.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Or a water pail.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Yeah

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： ... whatever it was, and it would crash there, wake him up, and then he would write down these ideas.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： So interesting.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： And in fact, if you look at his house, which is preserved, historical, you can walk around, and he had 小睡 cots installed in his house, so he could go into 不同 rooms and take naps in these little cots.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Oh, listen, I-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： For his genius. But 它是-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Oh, sorry

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： ... brilliant, isn't it? Absolutely.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： It is brilliant. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt, but it was out of enthusiasm. I don't want to give too much detailed 信息 about Rick's working environment, but yeah, let's just say there are a lot of places to lie down-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Mm

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... and access these states of mind. And it looks like somebody just lying there with their eyes closed, but there's an extremely active mind in there. Obviously, look at the productive output- ... of Rick's career. 它是 truly something to behold.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： 它是 a phenomenon.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Behold in capital, bold, underlined, highlighted letters. But 它是 so clear to me, based on all the examples you gave, the ones that we're kind of batting back and forth now, and I think there's a book, the title is something like "Winston Churchill's 小睡" or something like that, that my dad is always talking-- My dad's a theoretical physicist, always talks about 小睡 is so key to one's ability to come up with novel solutions. I guess that 小睡 frequently throughout the day perhaps violates some of the tenets that you described in the episode on 小睡 and 咖啡因, episode three.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： But we put this, I think you were great-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： But we put it in context

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： ... 因为 we put in guardrails-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Yeah

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： ... and we put in the 方案 to say-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Yeah

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： ... okay, naps under certain circumstances are no bad thing at all. And if you're going to do it, here are the suggested guidelines as to exactly how you optimize naps with a 方案. But I think 它是 very worthwhile to just appreciate exactly how complex 睡眠 is in terms of what 它是 doing for 信息 processing. And if you were to ask me, look, what's the take-home of this final section, I think 它是 no one has ever told you, "Andrew, you really need to stay awake on a problem." They've told you that you should 睡眠-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： No, many times

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： ... on a problem.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Like, go to 睡眠.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah, 睡眠 on a problem.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Yeah.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： And what's interesting is that in every language that I've inquired about to date, from English to Swahili, that phrase, sleeping on a problem, or something like it, very much exists. I think the Spanish someone was telling me is, translated is, you have a conversation with your pillow, which I thought was lovely. What I also was struck by a fellow who was French said, "You in England, you say you 睡眠 on a problem. Well, the French translation is much closer to you 睡眠 with a problem." And I thought that says-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： How French.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： ... so much about the romantic difference between-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Yes

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： ... the beautiful French and the English. You 睡眠 on a problem versus you 睡眠 with a problem.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Yes, I agree. I think not only does it have more romantic notions, but I like it 因为 there's a symbiotic aspect to sleeping with the problem. There's kind of a meshing with the challenge in a way that isn't as combative.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Like this thing that's weighing on you, you go to 睡眠, but then you're supposed to wake up and feel like you've solved it, like eureka, right?

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah, you push down on it rather than 它是 a collaboration with 睡眠 rather than a demand-

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Yeah

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： ... from it. But I also think 它是, I make that notion about language translation and maybe a slight joke, but what it also tells me is this, that that phenomenon of 睡眠-dependent 创造力 transcends cultural boundaries. It is common across the globe. 它是 a universal phenomenon. Why? Well, 因为 睡眠 is a universal phenomenon, not just even in humans, but in almost every species that we've studied carefully to date.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Mm-hmm. As you described the French ... notion of sleeping with a problem, I think the image that comes to mind is that perhaps the idea is if you're going to 睡眠 with a problem, that you should be the big spoon and they should be the little spoon. As opposed to the problem being the big spoon and you're kind of wrapped in the problem.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Right.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Maybe the problem needs to mesh with you, but maybe 我 taking this imagery-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： No, I love it

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... a little too far. 之前 we close out this discussion about 睡眠 and 创造力, I can't help but bring up a set of questions around a 不同 non-睡眠 方案 that in many ways seems to mimic 睡眠 in that for some individuals throughout history, in particular the great physicist Richard Feynman-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Mm-hmm

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... another habitual napper-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... by the way.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： An absolute idol of mine.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Wrote about and spoke about his fondness for these flotation tanks that contain a temperature of water that is fairly neutral, so one doesn't recognize the difference between body temperature and the surrounding water. And there's a certain amount of salt, salinity in the water that allows one to float at a kind of a depth within the water that one loses their sense of proprioceptive awareness, as you described-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yep

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... earlier in this series, a key component of falling asleep. And he talked about how under those conditions in the flotation tank, there was a kind of an untethering of one's notions of space and time that were very 睡眠-like, and that that was one of his go-tos for creative solutions. 人们 talked about walks as a go-to for creative solutions. In the shower, 人们 seem to come up with creative solutions. States of mind and activities where 它是 only somewhat goal-directed.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Mm-hmm.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： But basically, the idea is to just lose track of one's body positioning and let the mind go, so to speak. And for that matter, psychedelics have on occasion been attributed as at least one of the sources of creative solutions.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： I raise these ideas 理解 that each one of those could be a podcast unto itself. But it seems to me that 睡眠, and in particular dream 睡眠, is nature's way of creating-

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Mm-hmm

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： ... these states of untethering our rigid, linear 理解 of what relates to what, and it provides this near magical mixing of things learned the day 之前, and that's the essence of 创造力. And humans have been trying to tap into the creative 过程 through all these other portals for a long time with expensive technologies. But 它是 becoming very clear to me that the technology already exists. And that it costs absolutely nothing, and that it has tremendous 健康 益处 in addition to its 益处 for 创造力, and that technology is this brilliant technology of 睡眠.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： Yeah, and dreaming. 它是 a stunning state.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Matt, thank you so much for today's discussion about 睡眠, 记忆, 学习, and 创造力. We are now four episodes into this series on 睡眠. First episode we discussed, rather you taught us about 睡眠 and the biology of 睡眠, as well as some actionable takeaways. So actually, I would say some 重要 guidelines for getting one's 睡眠 correct. And then in the second episode, you went much further into 方案, both basic and advanced, for getting one's 睡眠 right, maybe even optimized. And in the third episode, you taught us about naps and 咖啡因. And today you've taken us on a beautiful exploration of the relationship between 睡眠 and 学习. What's more interesting than neuroplasticity and 学习? 之后 all, humans are unique in our ability to learn so many things throughout the lifespan. 它是 one of the things that distinguishes us from the other species on the planet, the very, very long window, perhaps lifelong window for the opportunity to learn, and of course, 创造力 and novel solutions to challenging problems in the world, but also great works of art and music, et cetera. I think we can fairly say, based on what you've taught us today, that 睡眠 has been not only the bedrock of 心理健康, 身体健康, and 表现 since the beginning of time and still now, but also has been one of the fundamental drivers of human evolution 因为 of all the 创造性洞见 that have occurred and all the 学习 that's occurred in 睡眠 that's then been transformed into real-world technologies. Indeed, 它是 much of the way that we have the blessing of being right here right now.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： If that's the flag that you're raising, I will salute it. Five ways till Tuesday. Very much, yes.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Well, I'll salute that flag right with you, and also point to the exciting fact that the next episode, episode five in this series, you're going to teach us about the really tight relationship between 睡眠 and emotional processing and emotionality, and I can't think of a more interesting topic to get into, especially at this point in the series, and I look forward to that discussion with emotional enthusiasm.

本段中文整理：Matthew Walker 博士： I can't wait. If folks are interested in trying to modulate their 心理健康, I think that next discussion should be very helpful with regard to 睡眠. I hope so at least.

本段中文整理：Andrew Huberman： Thank you for joining me for today's episode with Dr. Matthew Walker. To learn more about Dr. Walker's 研究 and to learn more about his book and his social media handles, please see the links in our show note captions. If you're 学习 from and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel. That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us. In addition, please subscribe to the podcast on both Spotify and Apple. And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review. Please also check out the sponsors at the beginning and throughout today's episode. That's the best way to support this podcast. If you have any questions for me or comments about the podcast or topics or guests that you'd like me to feature on the Huberman Lab podcast, please put those in the comments section on YouTube. I do read all the comments. On many episodes of the Huberman Lab podcast, we 讨论 supplements. While supplements aren't necessary for everybody, many 人们 derive tremendous 益处 from them for things like improving 睡眠, for hormone support, and for 专注. To learn more about the supplements discussed on the Huberman Lab podcast, go to Live Momentous, spelled O-U-S. That's livemomentous.com/huberman. If you're not already following me on social media, 我 hubermanlab on all social media platforms. So that's Instagram, X, LinkedIn, Facebook, and Threads. And on all those platforms, I 讨论 science and science-related tools, some of which overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab podcast, but much of which is distinct from the content covered on the Huberman Lab podcast. So again, 它是 hubermanlab on all social media platforms. If you haven't already subscribed to our Neural Network Newsletter, our Neural Network Newsletter is a zero-cost newsletter that provides podcast summaries as well as 方案 in the form of brief one to three-page PDFs that cover everything from neuroplasticity and 学习 to 睡眠, to deliberate cold exposure and deliberate heat exposure. We have a foundational fitness 方案 and much more, all of which, again, is completely zero cost. You simply go to hubermanlab.com, go to the Menu tab, scroll down to Newsletter, and by supplying your email, you can subscribe. I want to point out that we do not share your email with anybody. Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion all about 睡眠 with Dr. Matthew Walker. And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.