JRE MMA Show #73 with Jean Jacques Machado

00:03boom and we're live Jean-Jacques Joe Hogan pull this up pull this up like it's a been in quite some time but we made it yeah we made it we made it happen people still to this day all my friends call me Joe Hogan because you I don't know man Joe Hogan that's a funny Brazilian thing you know the Portuguese translation of R's to H's I think I think when we speak English you have to use your tongue in a way that in Portuguese we are just flat out but you use Rio you don't say heel right do you say heel no real real how does that work somehow that it's in Portuguese the first two letters are the strongest one in the world but but Hickson and hoist and say Hickson right it's but it's not Rickson but it's Rio yes how's that work I don't know when it becomes to a name is different than when you say a city name oh really yes oh it's funny real it's more something for them

01:02and when you say personal it becomes a little I don't know Hickson so people it's an H but it can be an R like a sound with objects and things yes or just places I'm think more places in and it's funny because in each region in Brazil is a different accent really oh that makes sense kind of like America yes each place like what country is that because it sounds very different oh but it's a beautiful language Portuguese has like especially Brazilian Portuguese has like a sing-songy like a flow to it it's the bossa nova carnaval yeah but it's that the way you guys talk it's cool it sounds good you know it's more almost like singing yeah how many Americans have like put on a fake Brazilian accent once they started really getting into jiu-jitsu must be man I think I think in a way when jiu-jitsu establish their flag outside Brazil it make funny it's funny in a way that people our goal is to make

02:09that area become more Brazilian than any other place it's not that we're trying to speak more English but we'll make the English become more Portuguese and almost every student that I have maybe probably because my accent they start listening and speaking very similar the way we do yeah in every jiu-jitsu school yeah well that's uh you used to see that in taekwondo too guys would have like fake Korean accents and in each school the instructor has a different accent and different vocabulary which even extended more it becomes like another language in the jiu-jitsu community so jiu-jitsu is huge in Rio but what other parts of Brazil that is it's very strange if you stop and think about the history of martial arts which is something that's always been very fascinating to me jiu-jitsu is the most fascinating because until 1993 it very few people understood how potent Brazilian jiu-jitsu was

03:05when when I start understand jiu-jitsu and became on the teenager time jiu-jitsu was basically in Brazil has that amazing era of my uncle Helio and Carson the whole first generation of the family which Brazil was all over jiu-jitsu was all over Brazil as a teenager remember that jiu-jitsu was basically established in a very wealth area in Rio de Janeiro only that's basically you have all the schools used to call Gracie schools by the neighborhood you have a Gracie Umaytai you have a Gracie Copacabana you have a then future Gracie Barra but everything was almost Gracie school everywhere and it was wealthy people only in the welfare of Rio Wow then slowly because keep in mind we used to have one maybe two tournaments sport of jiu-jitsu a year that's it we always practice jiu-jitsu mainly at that time for self-defense we want to get ready for protect ourself we never had much chances to try

04:13in a tournament because there's no tournament every train we do was based in defend yourself what year did tournaments start coming about by the beginning of the 90s I think the jiu-jitsu tournament start catching up more there's a crazy video of your brother Hegan and uh Hickson competing at a tournament once it was the biggest tournament of the year 300 competitors oh that's crazy that was that was the biggest one that's the biggest one 300 people wow now the thousands and thousands now the big ones is like 5,000 people yeah now when this happened uh what year was this with your brother I think was in the 80s not sure which year was something I don't think today looking back is something that um I didn't like personally because there was no need for that we everybody's to train together and later on I find out there was

05:14behind the scenes people involved with the organization they wanted something more of the tournament and they end up making something like that happen oh so you mean because Hegan and Hickson had trained together having them compete against each other was not a good idea oh no Hickson was teaching us right he's our instructor why do you think they wanted to have him compete against Hegan it wasn't even this happened on the day of the event was no planning of having that fight or anything they just made that happen there and today I realized that the promoter of the tournament the sponsor uh was talking to someone involved the promotion hey man I'll give you more money if you make something like that happen in our time if my instructor tells me I wanted to go and do that I don't even question I just go and do it

06:04right that's the way we were in you know in the whole family and uh our instructor said I gotta go and do this even though I don't like it it's wrong I should not do it we'll do it so what would be wrong about it would be that you were all training partners and in fact Hickson was your instructor so for one of you to go up against Hickson it's just I will give you a in the in the 90s early 90s we have a sample wrestling tournament in uh San Diego and when we moved to America was no jiu-jitsu event at all and we are in search of something similar that we can do to keep the edge and we went to some judo tournaments we went to wrestling tournaments not knowing the rules of anything and we end up in a sample wrestling tournament sambo for people don't know is a Russian martial art they wear their judo

06:54jacket but they wear wrestling shoes and shorts it's kind of a mix of both uh different rules I still don't know exactly the rules but here we are and myself and now we go there and I saw Hickson in that event and when comes towards the final match was me and him on the final and back that time where we have some conflict inside the family things that uh I'll keep that in four four walls yeah but uh we were not the relationship wasn't as well as should be then when the referee called me it's like well I'm not gonna fight my instructor my my coach my my hero my idol no I'm and I told the ref no I'm not fighting and even Hickson's like look at me and I I think in a good way he knew I would not ever compete against him but at the same time he he realized that um I would never turn myself against him right I will fight for him for the rest of my life and and period and I think was the point that um

07:56I was able to engage back our family things together after this date and showing him that it's all my respect and I would fight for him never against him well there was a time where people were trying to use the Gracie name and um many people were opening up schools that weren't necessarily really that that wasn't their birth name Gracie whereas you guys went a different direction and used the Machado name and the Machado name became enormous too so there was like from what I remember in the 90s when I first started training with you there was I started out at Hickson's place and I only uh trained there one time and then I went from Hickson's place to Carlson's place just because it was closer I didn't know any better I thought Gracie is Gracie oh Carlson Gracie Hickson Gracie I didn't know anything and I was a white belt and I was like oh another Gracie oh this

08:46is like 10 minutes closer to my house I'll just go that's how it used to be in Brazil in there in the 80s is all Gracie schools but then when that place went under Carlson lost that place it was on Hawthorne that was when Vitor Belfort made his UFC debut in 1997 and that place went under I started training with you and when I started training with you it was like 97 ish right somewhere around there 98 somewhere around there what was I think was right before Fear Factor no that was a few years before yeah a few years before because Fear Factor was 2001 news radio's time yes I was still on news radio when I was training with you but I remember there was like a call oh you're Machado now I'm like what are you talking about I was like I didn't understand like oh there's like Machados and then there's like two

09:29different like the factions the thing that happened at that time was this my mother older sister she's married to Carlos Gracie senior that mean he had seven wives holla his last wife was my mom's sister and that's we grew up with the family we don't have the same last name but I feel like I am and all my brothers the same thing we represent the Grace family the best way we can forever you know and every day you have a big family have cousins that you relate better than others but it's still a family you know and back at that time two of my brothers were teaching at the Gracie school in Carson with Higgins and Carlos and I think by that time Chuck Norris was no longer training with Horian at the Gracie school there not sure what happened and he stopped training then one day some of the some Chuck Norris show up at our house at our garage we used to teach in our garage in

10:40Dondo Beach and we opened the door suddenly look it's like man that guy looks like Chuck Norris then this channel was with him oh this is Chuck Norris and we look like what and he brought him to train he did training a few years back at the Gracie school and blah blah blah and it's a long story then he started training for us and when he started training for us we become very good friends it was amazing like something right away he invited us to his house he's a great guy man amazing person start hanging out and by that time I remember he used to make a movie one movie a year he worked for six months make a movie and he has six months off when we met him he was six months off literally he trains every day but when he trained he doesn't go home we have lunch he hangs out go to a movie then suddenly become good friends then one day he after a few months after training for us he invited us to the

11:35valley where he used to live in and see him and said look I have surprise for you guys then he took us to a shopping center right on Ventura Boulevard and uh he shows uh have a gift for you guys and he shows uh one of the unities mats ready it's like a school then he said look this is for you guys that's your school wow then we look at him like well Ventura Boulevard right on the street he said check we don't think we can afford that he said no don't worry that's my building you guys don't have to pay anything i just want to make sure i don't have to drive the 101 and 405 you guys drive that's a hell of a drive that redondo drive and he gave this school to us wow then it's like what can i tell more about this guy that's amazing and that's why we have this school in the valley because he used to live in ensino the school was in ensino then we start

12:29coming here then here we are joe hogan tarzana can buy for our school yeah that's amazing wow what a great guy but the point on that conversation was that um our school when we opened our school is to call carlos grace jiu-jitsu because of our uncle because when we came in we have the grace school and i remember uh the family's big and everybody has your side of story everybody's saying something about your uncle your cousin and we want to make sure that this side of him that we were representing in a way was carlos side then um a lot of people when we did the grand opening chuck noise were with us doing the self-defense and demonstration in the grand opening of the school and that was on sunday on monday we're not even ready for the amount of people that show up at our school and we have a small place with the amount of people but a lot of people start calling the other school asking where our

13:31school were because we're not even on the the book yeah we are not even on that and people calling the other schools hey do you know where the other school is and that created a little situation back then and we got some uh calls from other cousins and they say hey you guys cannot use the name then for the first time leaving using the name of our family we realized like what why not because you don't have the last name you can't use it then for us we grew up fighting for the family doing everything for the family we still do nothing change but then their suggestion was yeah you can call machado why you call the gracie name my family was this because of horian yes was horian was a lawyer and so he was the one who kind of copyrighted it and wanted to make he was like trying to sue carlson at one point but do you know the crazy thing was this we have one of the students and and as we

14:29learned jiu-jitsu the most important thing for me as an instructor was everybody can learn how to fight right how can you translate what you learn on the mat to implement on your personal life that's how we learned jiu-jitsu the impact that jiu-jitsu has on you to succeed outside the academy i know you can fight but can you fight on your life outside then it's a different ballgame it's a lot bigger and a lot harder and we have a lot of students that came to us when we have our garage time that changed their life and coincidentally one of the students happens to be son of the biggest lawyer in california and we have no idea because we end up getting sued by one side of the family then we have no money we turn to the students say guys i'm sorry we're gonna have to leave so you thought you're gonna close down the

15:21school oh yeah then we have this guy which his father was very grateful to us show up say look i'm this hot shot lawyer i can represent you guys like what i'm going to pay now you guys already i owe you because my son was saved by you guys and who's your son and his son was 21st for quite some time became very good to change his life around he was a drug addict now he's a one of the best yoga instructors out there a jiu-jitsu addict there we go and change his life and that lawyer protected us made sure that we stay here fine protect and and that was on the past today for all our families we have our difference back then and it's less now oh it's it's nothing well there's enough for everybody now i think everybody realizes in the beginning jiu-jitsu was so new and so powerful and that gracie name was so huge do you remember when vitor they used to call him vitor gracie yes they would call him

16:15victor for some reason it was victor v-i-k-t-o-r and then it became vitor like i was there when they were calling him victor gracie man do you know the amazing thing and i is a fighter and uh in my generation brazil everybody wants to be part of the family of course everybody wants to feel that you and that big circle because it's so much history and it's the name i think in august august 12th at your birthday right august 11th august 11th they're gonna have a statue of a carlson gracie being in copacabana and rib i mean a lot of recognitions happen now but jiu-jitsu and especially the grace jiu-jitsu because anyone that does jiu-jitsu today you're doing grace jiu-jitsu somehow yes maybe second generation third generation student off this guy who his instructor was a student off i mean i think everybody should be and they are grateful for what their family's done i mean yes the fan it's the

17:11most important family in the history of martial arts by a long shot man it changed the world changed the world changed the world changed the world changed my world i remember when the ufc came out and i watched it and i had been a striker my whole life and um i had done a little wrestling in high school but no jiu-jitsu no submissions no nothing and i watched hoist gracie just run through everybody and i felt i felt so vulnerable i was like oh no i don't know any i don't know any of this what the fuck this is how i was watching him take guys down and just strangle them like shit and these guys were killers they were stand-up killers and hoist was just dominating everybody and i mean when i was in arizona remember the first one they show on the pay-per-view and uh i was in denver right the first ufc and i was teaching a seminar and i think back those days the guy paid me a thousand dollars for

18:02the weekend and and i was watching a group of guys and they were not even sure and i put them on the table say hey who wants to make a bet that the skinny little guy like look like a doctor is gonna win everything and everybody like no no that guy okay put the money down nobody put the money down and here we are because we knew what jiu-jitsu is we knew the jiu-jitsu works and i think jiu-jitsu brought a lot of reality into the martial arts world oh yeah we made a lot of enemies that today are our friends because we showed something that people refuse to learn until they have no other choice they have no other choice now no yeah man we have ufc the biggest fighting show in the world where they come from came from horian there we go came from the streets in brazil to to the world and horian gracie who we all owe a huge debt to he wanted to prove the

18:59effectiveness of gracie jiu-jitsu so he established the ultimate fighting championship and that's where it came from it came from that guy's imagination and his desire to spread the word of his family that's what you need to do for people make you believe yeah imagine if you did not believe in what he has and what he learned yeah we'll be none of us will be here talking today yeah we're probably still doing something else and maybe not as happy as we are today no it's it's amazing man the whole story is it's hard for people to understand too that have never practiced it how fun it is you know it's it's and it means so and it makes your mind a better thing i was telling some of the students jujitsu is a health way for you to be bullying by someone you're in a school environment and you have the high belts playing with the white belts yes day in day out the white belts come in it's

19:53literally been bullying in a health way because it's in our safe environment well it's not bullying where you're not getting picked on but you're getting manhandled then the thing is they get smashed daily they come back for next class yes next class until soon they're going to be able to do the same thing yes and that little step they do they realize like well i'm being picked by someone now i stand by myself and i'm able to and he turned the table around it's a very healthy way to be picked up smash every day that if you stay there stick there you're going to use that you're going to reverse that you get choked pretty soon you're going to be choking someone you're going to unbar someone and it's a walking up in the stairs and that's how we grew up we go to the schools we get beat up like by the older cousins and oh man i don't think that's for me but then we come back one more time

20:46yeah come back one more time then 40 years later you're still coming back for one more time well it teaches you not just resilience but how important it is to just keep showing up and it's uh it's fun the whole thing you get choked to go home like how that guy choked me yeah i thought i knew how to defend that how did he made me turn in the way that he get the choke then it's intrigued then you keep in and back in the 80s we have no videos we have to try to memorize and see how this actually happened right is it was a lot more challenging because you have to try to remake it right not sure if that's what actually happened to you but the amazing thing in i remember a lot of times i'm looking around the mats i have all my brothers all my cousins it's no way someone in this room will never have will not have the answer for the question that you have

21:46right and you have so many different views that is impossible for you not to learn and not get good in jiu-jitsu yeah you have so many amazing fighters out there knowing more than you know then i remember every time i ask something to the technique i get five different answers yeah and i use the one that works for me well that's what's interesting right is that everyone has a different approach that jiu-jitsu is almost like uh the way people talk it's like having conversations people use different words and different styles and and and and the amazing thing is let's see we train and i do well with you then you train with that guy you do well with that guy in the theory i should be doing well with that guy no maybe his game does not fit with my game i might have a lot of difficult against him which i shouldn't right but it's the match-up game it's very interesting it's nothing that

22:43is guaranteed oh that guy's gonna right no it's not right maybe my game is used yours but not to his well that was the most amazing thing about hickson right because hickson was the one guy that everyone said was the best when i grew up and i have to say um it's a privilege to watch for me have some guys from carson school there was amazing fighters used to watch them and i remember one of them uh casio cardoso for me was phenomenal we have definitely hoyler for his size his weight most accomplished phenomenal all the great season competition the most accomplished what this guy did with his size against opponents if people look like that no way and yes it is a way yeah and definitely as you go in heavier i have my brother higgin which was an amazing fighter too and evidently for me my time was hickson it's like you have the era of hickson you know a lot of unbelievable fighters but

23:50you're you're in the wrong decade you know could be you but he was right there right you could have been number you're number two under hickson you could have been number one under anybody else in the amazing thing you feel like a chameleon he can he can kind of make any game you train with him he can pretend to be you fighting me or anybody it's amazing that aspect especially on the teaching process what was so good about him he used to go to our school we have 30 of the best guys all all higher belts and he tells you okay choose how you want to start and you choose okay he's not gonna get out he gets out and he gets you in the position you ask him to start with everyone i think the most the best thing that he has on his game that i'm on my view and today understand that was his defense no way to get him you let your mom take his back do whatever you want you can't get him he used to

24:48start like guys take his back with a rear naked choke fully locked in black belts go ahead start from here and then defend get out and get you there yeah crazy then messes your mind up like hey wait a minute yeah how can he get out and he gets me here can get out you know and i think the amazing thing with his confidence and belief on that it makes amazing well he was unusual in that he was really into physical fitness as well like yoga really into yoga become incredibly flexible and strong and really into breathing he he had a amazing control of his body as well as the knowledge of jiu-jitsu man he brought a lot of elements to jiu-jitsu yeah that i don't think people realize how important it was because people say oh i knew that no you did not he brought in the breathing aspect the the gymnastica that makes you come closer to the nature habitat yeah gymnastica natural is what

25:49we're talking about it's a style of who who invented that was the man who invented orlando cunny and it was a brazilian thing as well brazilian guy he's still alive in his 80s and you look at him like how can he do or still do that really and the whole idea is move your body like the animals right to bring back to us the animal instinct that we end up losing by the generations you see some of that now with uh ido portal and a lot of these guys are training martial artists in these movement like movement classes and movement styles and a lot of that is very similar to gymnastica natural amazing but the biggest difference i think was the concept that he used the approach that he used wasn't as just mechanical the way it is it was something that sometimes on the exercise you you change the direction of your movements it's not certain kata you have to do one two three four now

26:47he goes one two jumping for ten go back to six you flow and hickson brought that into jiu-jitsu and i remember train he goes hey get there keep keep moving keep moving don't stop moving keep keep the flow of the technique you're gonna get it and he brought that movement into jiu-jitsu which for me made a huge difference in the way i fight how did you fight before that um we learned the technique we do the drills and uh it's more like you pause and wait for somebody to pause in this position when he came in i understand that is you learn how to start guiding people to where you want them to go i'm training few i want you to go to my left there's no other way for you to go to my right i learned how to mold my body in a way the only direction you will have to go is on my left i know that but you don't right there we go i'm one step ahead then when you go to my left you're

27:47going to put your left hand on the ground instead of your right hand i know that too then i'm two steps ahead of you i mean when you're trying to defend something you're already two steps behind because the defense is always shorter than the offense you stretch your arm for me to get your arm i have to put my hands and swing my leg for you just bring one back right it's always short it's quicker that's why when you have one or two steps ahead you don't have the time to defend right you're blocking off the defense i'm already too far ahead for you to defend right and that's what i learned with those movements that he brought into jiu-jitsu you start learning how to guide and mold yourself to make you go to that direction who was a challenge to him in the early days because there was a lot of great guys right we have a lot of great guys and it's funny sometimes i

28:37see you go to the internet and see some of the fights and you notice that a lot of guys they they can kind of hang out for until five minutes after five minutes and great athletes they just done right because of that movement he keep going constantly keep that rhythm people were not able to keep up with him right and he's not lifting weights and the body builder no he's and we learn how important for human is to be in contact with nature would you imagine yourself not going for hiking some days in the morning that mean we need that we need that energy yeah we need to walk without shoes we need to be near the mountains the water that's something that make us healthy and stronger and that's why you see we used to go a lot up in the mountains and waterfalls and out of the city to trying to get that in a halfway animal instinct that we have yeah we're there listen

29:31to the birds listen to in the middle oh maybe it's a coyote there are people that on the city they go in the mountains they're gonna get eaten eaten by a mountain lion not even hear the mountain lion but if you're walking there quite often you understand that you develop and still have that oh i heard something there we're losing more of that as jujitsu we're trying to bring people into that environment which is something that make you better off regardless be more aware of yourself exactly yeah more primal and also that's the struggle of jujitsu is so much different than what most people experience on a daily basis where you're literally trying to stop someone from choking you and it's a friend like a good friend like you you love them like a brother yeah but they're trying to choke the shit out of you

30:23and you're trying to stop them and the amazing thing you're trying to stop and you don't get mad at him not at all you say thank you man slap hands and then i say how'd you get me like oh you forgot this like oh god here we go is that is is the amazing thing one student said something like do you know why jujitsu people are so friendly because they hug each other all the time and i don't know how to think you're right there's something to that yeah well there's so much physical contact that that is true there's something to that but i think it's the the eye contact that they're talking to each other and um in that exchange of information it's also humbling which i think people need i think people have a distorted perception of what they can do in this life and i think sometimes you need to understand this is where you are and when one of the beautiful things about the ranking system of

31:13jujitsu is you know when you give someone a purple belt you you say hey this is real you're ready for this i've seen you i watch you i know you know 100 where they are they're ready to get a purple belt and then it's this feeling like okay the all this showing up day after day drilling after drilling coming in when i don't want to is this paying off and i've reached a new place it sounds like i want to promote someone's a flashback they go back like whoa yeah they realize all this time that i bring in a very good way suffering going to this it worth i'm right here right now feeling much better when you gave me my purple belt i remember thinking that was probably one of the happiest moments of my life because to me a purple belt was like a blue belt was like you just kept showing up you kept

32:01showing up you kept showing up now you got a blue belt but a purple belt was like you could get a black belt you just have to keep going you're in the top of the mountain as a purple belt you're right there with the with all the top guys there's no way down there's just up you're right there with all of them that was during the fear factor days i was more happy about getting that purple belt than i was about getting fear factor i had to mention something because uh i get a lot of message from people like oh man is joe hogan good and joe hogan jiu-jitsu is good i said man come to my school anytime joe hogan shows up and he's he's back now training it's not about his power man he doesn't care he wrestles everybody anybody and i see him twist the people around there in the school and he's one and this is

32:49this is real he's one of the hardest students training partners that i have and i think one of the last time i wrestled him in my malibu school i think we trained maybe for half an hour something like that i was there for i don't know 20 minutes just trying to sweep joe and joe was right there i finished the training man my legs are sore and i don't i don't remember if i did sweep him or not to just stop training after half an hour and i want people to understand it's anybody that i want to train i would never and i refuse i never give a belt to anybody unless they deserve the belt and when i say deserve is i don't defer people from more famous less famous thought no it's everybody in jiu-jitsu world is the same you have to walk in the same road as everybody because that's the only way you actually going to learn jiu-jitsu for real yes and i don't remember you say no to anybody

33:46training get hurt a lot of times but don't care show up and my neck is here my knees there and training and you out there that you listen he's one the strongest excuse my language motherfuckers i have in my school training jiu-jitsu with and that's why i'm here i'm pushing him to get back and i'm gonna show up now that i know where he is i'm gonna show up here what's up joe where's your is as soon as i heal this fucking that is amazing and i want people to know that's uh is the real deal another thing that people don't know is when he was back in the fear factor time he had one idea to one of the challenge for the people would be training fighting a cage with me in that case doing jiu-jitsu and then i realized joe you don't need me you go there and do it you you're gonna mangle everybody there you don't need anybody to do that

34:40he he we end up not happening and uh they decided that it was too dangerous to do a person versus a person they thought that there was too many legal implications exactly meanwhile they have people ride a fucking bull it didn't make any sense but so the the challenge was they were gonna have to start with you on the ground like in your guard or with you mounting them we're gonna figure out what it was and whoever survived the longest you know like the the one person you don't need me you can use joe joe's gonna do the same thing and gonna twist whatever needs to do he has all the tools for that that was funny thing at the point was you you can do it there was no need for me to do it how do you how how are you still fairly injury free after all these years because what's interesting about you is you know you've been doing jiu-jitsu forever but you can still roll and and train with

35:34people a lot of other guys after a certain amount of time they really can't roll anymore they develop all these back problems back problems in particular um neck problems i learned i mean more you learn jiu-jitsu less chance you have to get hurt and my point is i'm i'm always under control i'm always controlling my opponent and i know how to avoid certain situations before the situation actually happened because a lot of times people go for the kill but not concerned about them getting killed sometimes they expose themselves right to be in a bad position and they have to learn sometimes you do an arm bar and somebody and somebody put all the weight on your neck and i see people insisting in getting there no you go back give up keep the control then you do it again right but not insisting some bad positions and every day it has to do how well do you eat how well do you sleep do you exercise

36:30i mean a lot of the things are involved but exercise you mean like lift weights lift weights and run you know and swim you have so many things that you can do and people say oh no everybody's gonna die one day sure we can die tomorrow but i want to make sure that time i'm alive i'm healthy right and i don't see myself going to jiu-jitsu school teaching and not training but even hickson can't train anymore oh now he's back training he's rolling yes he's really now when did he start rolling again i saw one of his students they trained uh last week just for an hour wow he had an injury and you got to understand a lot of real bad back problem right yes the back and hip a lot of things and a lot of those things happen more not with jiu-jitsu with some of the mma fights you got to understand back those days with no no protection at all and right no rules throw each

37:17out of the ring and uh that was something yeah very very challenging no weight class yeah i mean he showed up as a young age fighting some monsters over there that's like man i don't know how he did it but he did it you know showing up and zulu when he was 18. the zulu is insane but it was strong was more from that time the next jiu-jitsu jiu-jitsu never got hurt in jiu-jitsu poor neck or nothing then he's back training man i would love it jiu-jitsu is amazing man i don't see myself with eight years old not be able to train didn't you you got a cortisone shot recently i yeah i'm not sure what happened and my knee bugs me and i go there have a little meniscus tear i'm still training have a certain position that uh it's not comfortable uh i have the cortisone shot and so far so good not bothering you anymore not bothering me you have a center positions that but the physical therapy that

38:16i'm doing is being very helpful what kind of stuff are you doing and lift the weights and um every day on a bike doing things that make your legs stronger bike's great oh bike is amazing it's so good for the needs no impact i mean yeah i i think we have everything we need and if i if i don't have i can learn how to do it but man jiu-jitsu is a it's a lifestyle in general yes yeah it is and the p it's it's almost like um it's not just a lot it's like a philosophy too because there's a lot of people that they learn how to deal with life through the struggle of jiu-jitsu because the struggle of training is so much harder than most of the struggles that you face in your daily life it makes you more accustomed to dealing with uncomfortable positions i will tell you a funny story that what jiu-jitsu does for you i my my older daughter had some uh health issues like at two o'clock in the

39:08morning something like that and uh called the doctor and said look i gotta go and get this inhaler something at the pharmacy man i was wearing my pajamas driving crazy to the pharmacy and as i'm walking in have a guy walking out and bumping his shoulder mine and hey son of a d is f you and man two turning them on you wanna fight go home go to your wife dude then the guy i'm gonna wait for you then he's outside i go get the medication i put this stuff in say man get the guy outside he's no longer there several months later the same guy show up in my school and i did not recognize him but he keeps staring at me and i approach hey how are you have you trained jiu-jitsu before he's like do you remember me did you train here before no i bump into you in the pharmacy and he goes like thank you for not hurting me

40:05and i goes like man what happened to you oh my father passed away a day before i was so depressed so the point for me was with jiu-jitsu i can walk away for something like that and i feel sorry for the guy yeah i'm not concerned oh i'm afraid of him no i'm not afraid it's just the fact that i'm saving him to get hurt right today he's one of my best friends he's my lawyer wow my dear friend he's been training jiu-jitsu for since that time almost has 20 years wow but i remember that day walking in and the guy bumping to me i want to fight wow and it's like man i walk away no no no you're too strong for me man go home and relax that's the difference too between jiu-jitsu and kickboxing because the kickboxing you you can only hurt somebody you can't really like hold on to him and go hey hey you ever see it was already hurt man you ever see the video yeah right he was already

41:00emotionally right you ever see the video of matt sarah uh matt sarah uh was in uh an altercation with some drunk guy in a in a bar or a restaurant or something i think i saw that and matt just took the guy down mounted him and he's just holding on to his wrist and he's like calm down calm down and the employers are like trying to figure out what to do he's like he's fine he's fine calm down but you know matt didn't hurt him he just held on to him and and basically just mounted him and grabbed a hold of his wrist and was controlling him and man when we say jiu-jitsu is a gentle word yeah we mean that yes jiu-jitsu will give you the choice to choose to hurt someone or not yeah and i think more you're trying to realize that that person has something already going on in their life right and we choose not to yeah i mean we grew up in our time and that's funny with teenagers and no jiu-jitsu

41:55tournaments then we go like how are we gonna test ourself and back in the 80s in brazil we have some fun time we go to a nightclub and fight breaks through and here we are practicing our jiu-jitsu but not hurting anybody and not because we choose or somebody provoke no we get people coming towards us because we're always little guys we're never the biggest guys in the place then we just make sure like man we take them down hold choke somebody out but no scratch and on the end those people become students of our school right all those little kids can do that to us right and that's one way that's funny in the 80s that jiu-jitsu became even bigger with some of the altercation on the street we convince the person that we just fought we just choked to come and become our student because you didn't hurt them then like yeah they end up coming and learn that they feel humiliated but

42:50at least they they feel thankful that you didn't injure them uh for sure yeah you know in in a fight man that i think jiu-jitsu gives you that sense of control yes that you have you have that choice this is the way i always explain to people i say if i'm in a street fight with someone and they're swinging if it's strong person there's a strong person they're good athlete they have strong arms and they're throwing punches at me if i get hit i'm in trouble no matter who you are if you get hit you're in trouble most likely i won't get hit if i know how to how to fight and i keep my hands up and i move right but if i get a hold of you you're not doing anything to me like there's a difference between like someone who's untrained and someone's trained like if a jiu-jitsu black belt grabs a person and gets actually gets control of them there's no lucky you're not going to luckily submit me

43:38you know it's not going to happen but you can luckily you could hit someone it can happen in a street fight if someone has a little bit of speed and they have power and there's a strong person they can hit you it's much more dangerous and that's the only and we always want to train it was the only opportunity our opponent has is before we close the distance right that's the danger zone and if you think for a second a lot of things that we do on the ground in jiu-jitsu you just bring those two people up in the close distance it's the same thing and a lot of people today they don't do the same they try to fight standing when they hold different than when you're on the ground the way you move your legs the way play guard it's the same thing when you're standing work on the people's body as a hook as a sweep to make somebody fall and uh and we learn that when we get close to someone

44:28we make the size not be affected as much as could if you have a distance do you think that there was a transitionary period where a lot of jiu-jitsu guys were having a hard time because they were they didn't know how to take people down and then the wrestlers were learning how to keep them at distance they were learning to take down defense in and yes and and that's the very challenging thing and but if i'm fighting a wrestler what are the chances that he's going to take me down it's higher than me actually taking him down right and most of the things that we do in the jiu-jitsu and what we see in the sports jiu-jitsu today we're not going to use in a real fight most of jiu-jitsu is in the tournaments we're not going to use that in a fight that's the difference from that generation of the 80s to the generations

45:20from the 90s until up today it's two different kinds of uh jiu-jitsu one is a sport which is very beautiful a lot of people they do amazing techniques but the rules of the sport had the tendency to take to another direction and when you have the jiu-jitsu as the 80s we practice using a lot of leverage with the arms patience and when we play guard in the 80s it's different than we play today today you have a lot of geese wrapping around everything the gi became a weapon right in our time the gi was never a weapon they give us like almost like a paper right we use a lot the neck a lot the elbow well that's what helped you when you transition to no gi right well definitely and also because you were born with no fingers on your left hand man was no for me until today is no difference right i play exactly the same in both right no difference at all but you were all over hooks and under hooks and and

46:17grips around the body and whereas the guys who transitioned to mma and their all game relied on grabbing collars and sleeves those guys had a harder time for sure yeah a lot of guys that's why a lot of guys are trying to come in they might be good in their top games but when they go on their back yes they are kind of a little lost until they understand how to play the game yeah that's why it's so impressive when you see a big guy who also has a great back a little great off his back like fabrizio verdun i think if you notice if i'm on the bottom of someone and i'm flat i'm a target right i have to change the angle if i don't change the angle i'm gonna get ground and pound right like we've been seen a lot yes you see some oh this is a black belt in jiu-jitsu then you go like oh it's flat it just gets flat on his back that mean all my weight now is affecting you i'm dropping you you have to

47:13learn that your legs should be in angle this way i'm not able to hit you there your legs are on the way and that's one thing that very few guys do it or you close the distance or you change the angle but it can be look at him trying to go hold his neck he's gonna hit you hard well eddie figured out a brilliant thing with rubber guard when with a brilliant thing with mission control and how to control from the back of the neck he closes the distance yes yes closes the distance he changed a lot of people's games what what uh some people don't want to recognize but they have to is the idea that he had and i remember him coming up and trying some of the techniques and people oh this is crazy i said no man keep going this is you're gonna get somewhere yeah i don't think not everybody can do that because you have to be a little bit flexible

48:06but once you learn how to do it you save your life yeah how many guys that when they get a hold of their foot and keep that close there's no gap or room for the person on top to hit you and as you're trying to move too much your arm suddenly is stuck yep and there we go yeah it closes the distance you can't be playing when my arms are free because i'm gonna ground and pound you especially the heavy guys man right hit once or twice that's it mm-hmm yeah he figured out some very unique ways to use his legs and you notice that you close the distance or he changed the angle close the distance change the angle whoever's on top you don't have space or you don't have the angle you're always in a weird position when they get a hold of your head and the leg the way he does it's interesting to see the evolution of jujitsu from 1993 ufc style to 2019 too there's so many new techniques there's so many

49:01new approaches but there's some guys like hodger gracie for instance who just use the basics honed to razor sharp edge you don't see a lot of crazy baron bolo chokes or wild things from a guy those a lot of the like real rock solid traditional techniques guys he the simple works all the time yes whichever simple works all the time yeah anything jujitsu that require more than three steps you need to train a lot but even hickson right like hickson style was the just it wasn't anything that no one knew how to do it's just he knew how to do it better than anyone there we go he's he's the way he moved yes you can't find him right and once you find him he gets out and get you he goes around your back it's it was amazing man triangles arm bars rear naked chokes normal stuff normal things that everybody knows how to do

49:57you get to his guard you know you're gonna fall on your back yes simple as that oh i'm his guy i'm gonna fall on his back oh he's gonna sweep me yeah oh i'm not gonna sweep oh he's gonna unbar me i mean it's not much where you can feel safe and today you see a lot of the jujitsu you have you need something called transition you go for number one beginning the position transition then you have the submission today they jump from number one beginning to the submission is no transition the transition now has become muscle they have to overpower never seen so many injuries today in the jujitsu competition really so many injuries shoulder knee foot elbow like my god what do you think it's from because it it's no you're missing a lot of sometimes the finesse to get there they have to muscle well that's one of

50:53the reason why i wanted to talk to you about your longevity because you are the best guy that i know of in terms of like you you're i mean you have a little knee injury a little meniscus but that's it i've known you forever you've never had like a major surgery you never had like a major problem and everybody i know gets hurt everybody i mean again it's the way you train the way you control the fight i think people gotta understand is i'd rather get you once but i get you well than trying to get you 20 times sometimes people trying to go after each other and the injury will happen right because they're clashing exactly yeah if i have somebody come very tense to me i don't play tense back right i try to relax more you relax more i'm going to be able to achieve against you i remember when you competed against dean lister and he was about 250 000 pounds team was so big he was so big man but

51:50you were able to there was one of the very big frustration for me on that event because i remember i was um training to be my weight class below 170 and that year we have uh with marcelo garcia we have some good names good guys to fight and i was training a lot for that and i think uh week and a half before the event um arona was supposed to fight dean lister but back in those days i think his contract with pride did not allow him to fight because their concern is an injury happened and he's going to be be missing the pride fight then they come a week and a half to offer me that fight and uh and i end up taking that fight but i don't think i i train specific and focus to fight dean and i think the fight was uh honest for me dean it was a monster but it wasn't a good fight there was not much happening on the

52:50fight it was mostly he was concerned to move right and i was i felt the difference on the i was so light yeah and i i did not train if anybody heavy because i was fighting the 170 i was just trying if people that weight class and lower to get this speed to be ready for those guys then here yeah a week and a half i don't think i was feeling ready for fight somebody this big my strategy i have no strategy back then okay let's let's try to move but he was very smart not moving much i have evident to be worried about him grab a hug got a hold of my foot and i think it was 20 minutes not much happened on the fight and uh and for me was i was frustrated not be ready for a fight like that because i was training to fight in the lower class i was so ready and i regret not doing that would be amazing but for all the reason end up moving up and no problem well when you did do

53:48abu dhabi the first time i think it was a wake-up call for a lot of people that you know because of you being born with no fingers in your hand and your approach to jiu-jitsu being so overhook and underhook powered you know you you transition so smoothly into no gi whereas a lot of guys from your era they would go and transition into no gi and they really they're missing so many tools because they're so used to grabbing the gi you know i remember when i got a call to go in 99 and um they said the rules would be 10 minutes five minutes first five nothing counts right then after five whatever the rules were i don't even know today what the rules were anyways what counts or not count but then i realized man the first five minutes not counts that's that's go right so if people don't know what we're saying here abu dhabi is a very strange rule set so for the 10 minute round the first

54:47five minutes of it there's no points it doesn't matter what happens if someone takes you back if you get mounted you get into a triangle but you escape there's no points then i just go bring the guy to the ground pull guard right away and let's go right and i think was surprised for a lot of people because right from the bat i keep going all the way and um again with the transition that i for me i have no transitions the same game no gi right and i feel at home yes that's what i do every day right and i felt a lot of guys not sure how to behave but on my mind the first five minutes nothing counts it doesn't doesn't matter if he mounts me take my back or do anything nothing it's realistic the whole idea is to make people actually go after each other right but when i get there i see people waiting standing five minutes walking around waiting for the five minutes waiting for the five

55:38minutes so they get a takedown and then win on on one point yeah opposite but usually to is yeah and i said hell no let's let's go to the ground see if he's better grappling than me good if he's not good because i'm but it was a wake-up call for a lot of people because they got to see you who did who did you fight in that first year you fought sakurai right i yeah i fought uh who was a big time mma fighter at the time sakurai kauno i think they were well known in the very well known mma world over there also known as being really good grapplers so it was very eye-opening for people to see you run through them if i'm not wrong with the first loss for sakurai his first loss what was fine i think for me was it's my world and let's see if you're a better grappler good if you're not there we go good for me yeah yeah it was fun and i think was was very good for me to all the adcc i was able to

56:31be among the best three guys and that was um for me it was a great accomplishment being able to to stay up on the top of the game and fighting the lighter guys the heavier guys i was in special no-gi which was something that it takes for a lot of people some kind of adjustment because they they born in the gi world basing their game on the gi and they have actually some hard time too and a lot of them even gave up like oh forget it now in the early days of jiu-jitsu there was a lot of no-gi guys on the luto livre side right there was a for people don't understand there's a big rivalry in rio between jiu-jitsu and luto livre um a lot a lot of times you have people that come to our school and they don't fit in they and they walk away and if i understood back those days those guys were some of these people that they don't did not fit into the jiu-jitsu

57:38schools and they end up creating their own no-gi school but you gotta understand that in the 80s our generation in rio de janeiro summertime man it's 110 115 extremely humid and we did a lot of trainings we trained the gi and after the gi session take the top of the gi out and here we go we train nogi since we are white belts we've been doing that because the intent were learning how to get out of a headlock how to be on the bottom somebody trying to slap you what do you do and that was our training that generation that's why almost everyone from the 80s is still up to date teaching and making a great school all the jet that generation still the longevity of them being doing jiu-jitsu still out there a lot of guys that i see now especially if the social media they're all teaching they're all doing

58:36very well a lot of them too big some of them still in good shape and teaching but at that generation i think is uh for me was a golden golden generation because they're still out there and the people that come from that generation their students they develop such a good jiu-jitsu roots is there still loot deliver any anywhere i think they still have there but it's not a rivalry anymore right no i don't think today past that time and i think that the rivalry was a need for our generation to establish jiu-jitsu as a very effective art and i think some of the mma events that happened was the fight that should that should be happening on the streets then we're able to bring that into make into an arena this way only the two guys will be fighting not innocent people get hurt on the street and i think what is what people don't realize is a lot of those fights could be happening right on a nightclub or

59:34some people even get killed now let's bring that fight into the arena only you two guys nobody else gonna get hurt and that's why a lot of those events happen no money no prize money not just for pride there's some videos of some of them that still exist you know just for pride there's no money involved who did hickson fight on the beach who was that hickson fight hugo duarte that's right hugo duarte went up to fight in pride he fought tank abbott right man he fought some different people and i remember that day was so funny because um you have a point on the beach in rio that is it's where most of the jiu-jitsu where the pretty girls were and all the guys would go in there session on the beach very famous people and then everybody go in that session and i'm we keep here that hugo challenge hickson hugo challenge hickson hugo challenge hickson

60:28here he is right here there we go smacked him in the face then and hickson was like no he didn't say anything and i'm right there's some walking right there and uh light shorts there my mission were hickson look up look at me and say hey watch my back where were you i'm the one okay i'm off the screen now right on on my left you're gonna see me standing there then oh he came right if i get up i can show you so what year is this what year is this man sometime in the 80s and do you know who's filming that we have uh hi and gracie he was sitting uh someone's shoulders with a camera crazy to try to see oh no man i was getting so many bodies i was getting i was getting punched in the head on the back just because i was watching hickson's but everybody didn't jump in no no no what we did was we made a circle arms to arms and uh and hickson's the one with the green shorts right green stripe yes

61:33and he had a long hair that day which the guy grabbed his hair it doesn't look like his hair is that long oh no he he's a ponytail there really yeah i have i knew he had a ponytail from a lot of oh see now you see hickson mounting him oh no he he's he got tired of punching the guy we felt and so my mission him punching him yeah there we go and the guy tapped and stop please stop and we have he has a group of guys with him we want to make sure that nobody jump on his back wow it's and but the thing is we we have this and don't get me wrong i'm not telling people to go and do that but in that time in that generation a lot of those fights that happened in the street was a need for jiu-jitsu to be established the way should be and was better than two guys fighting there then that fight ended up in the bar gang club a gang fight people shooting each other right and i

62:29remember hickson said we we get together in uh our first original gracie bar high school there and some members of other jiu-jitsu schools they said look guys uh he's gonna go there i'm gonna make a circle only him and the guy fight nobody else fights you understand that because if everybody fights then somebody's gonna get really hurt because you're not going to be able to control anything we just made a big circle we hold hands regardless of what happened we will not interfere it's hickson and that guy and that's it but want to make sure nobody jumps in then i remember he say you gotta watch my back and i go like okay i gotta watch his act don't do nothing gotta watch my back and here we are i'm always behind him and uh getting punched getting kicked from other people but the crazy thing was that happened and hickson on his mind said look i'm gonna go there slap him

63:21on the face and he's gonna run then we're like okay he goes there slap that guy and the guy did not run then we go oh shit here we go game on then we hold each other and i think it was uh this happened on saturday um tuesday night ugo went to hickson school with uh a lot of people they are all carrying weapons hickson wasn't there and they call he shows up in shorts and he quickly just slapped google around somebody called the police later on and they even shoot the ceiling um ar-15 whatever just boom and they left but then was hickson just smashed him quick because it was on the cement not on the sand um but that again happened in a way for us as a pride to prove the point is jujitsu is the best style of martial arts uh we keep going strong and hugo was a luto livre guy who was a luto livre guy respected real strong one of the best guys still today and they

64:27had a grappling style it just wasn't as comprehensive back there they they were doing a lot of foot locks already yeah yeah the ones that are doing a lot of foot locks no get a lot of heel hooks yeah and they have some quality fighters among of them definitely eugenio tadeo eugenio tadeo and they have i end up fighting one of the guys from there and uh one of the abu dhabi is there but as the time goes by i think people get older can understand and i don't think today has any conflict or any bad feelings and they must have adopted a lot of the jujitsu techniques too everything was jujitsu yeah you should take the gear right today i'm training grappling okay what is the definition of grappling you're on the ground fighting then it's jujitsu what do you think about this new trend that you're seeing like you saw it

65:17particularly coming out of john donahur and dean lister with the leg locks like leg locks are so big in in jujitsu competition now when when we learn jujitsu and still today we would not learn anything related to legs until we get our blue belt the main reason behind this were to be able to let you develop guard without concern anything just learn how to move your hips in sweeps and hooks foot lock is something very effective but if i show you right away i might be stopping some of the evolution of your game or the other person that you train with that he can learn which will make even better his foot lock right that's why we hold back until people get up one year two into jujitsu to learn leg locks but today we have the nogi everybody's such in a hurry that a lot of nogi schools the first thing people wants to learn hey i want to learn hill hook and jiu-jitsu with gi i want to learn arm bar

66:23right they know gi wants to go straight to the leg the gi people want to go straight to the arm but i think particularly because of the the success of these leg lockers against high level competition no it's effective it's amazing i think it's a portion of the game you know and uh and you you will see the development of people that will have defending that which also will force guys to pass also beyond the legs only but definitely they work it's a very dangerous let people wrap their legs around your leg hook you there i mean not everybody can get out of that and if you don't tap you're going to get your knee ripped apart for sure and that's the real problem with leg locks is that so many guys wind up with pretty devastating knee injuries in the 80s the the the decision not to have hill hooks in jujitsu was for safety we do we did practice but the competition does not allow you got to understand

67:23in the 80s if you have a knee problem your career is over right there's no surgery that really would fix it correctly right today is different yeah you understand it's the evolution of the medical side make possible for you to put a brand new knee over there yeah but still to this day meniscus tears and cartilage tears those are still huge i mean without stem cells it's very very difficult to fix those unless you get the meniscus like i had part of my meniscus removed in my left knee and then you see them i mean you want to train for longevity and you gotta understand too is uh i think some of those things should be kind of almost creating a pro league into the jujitsu world because a lot of people they get hurt before even they learn what jujitsu is that's why my only concern is the danger of all those hill hooks leg locks because if you get somebody who knows

68:20he might tap or he might roll to the right side even though a lot of guys still get hurt yeah but if you hold somebody who doesn't have much experience in one of those traps it's for sure injury they roll the wrong way and rip it apart themselves even if you don't squeeze it's because they don't know what to do right yeah and my that's my view of as an instructor today on my school said no you're not ready for legs yet right oh i go to the nogi don't go to the nogi tournament yet you have to learn first you understand for your own safety and also i want them to develop guard because when we get tired we pull guard when you get tired you lie down to sleep you don't sleep standing you sleep when you lie down and jujitsu is the same thing you get tired you're gonna pull guard and that's one of the ways i

69:11see some of my students in the tournament they get tired he's a top guy suddenly start pulling guard because i mean he's tired he's already wants and that's why you have to have a good guard just to survive and rest to be able to continue were you surprised though that this nogi leg lock game started taking off the way it did i think because of the success you have so many guys doing extremely well and some of the guys that come from the nogi originally doing so well now some of the guys that come from the gi world doing nogi they've been finding some challenges to adjust to that leg i think in a way you have two ways that simplify because if you get somebody in a foot lock or leg lock there we go and at the same time you complicate because you see a lot of scramble now and a lot of injuries yeah because every day i understand people don't want to tap then it's a position that you

70:11something's gonna get hurt yeah but i'm uh is that development and evolution of the the grappling world and i think it's amazing it's sooner or later somebody's gonna find ways to protect better and better and better and better that will force people to move on well you've seen that i think now with a lot of the leg lock guys against each other they're kind of stalemate and you see them winning by rear and they could choke or arm bar again yeah they're not using their leg locks against each other right they realize like man he knows as much as i do now i need more than that yeah they're using them to sweep or they're using them to set up other things they're trying to exploit other holes like maybe they concentrate too much on leg lock so then they they're open to arm bars or chokes i remember when when i learned in

70:58the beginning we have foot lock as the last resource let's see i'm fighting the guy and i man i'm not able to submit him i'm gonna footlock him that's how we used to have in the 80s yeah like a hail mary footlock is okay this is my deadly weapon if everything that i do is not working i'm gonna footlock him today is the opposite my first shot is footlock him all the way it's not working i'm gonna choke him yeah you see so few footlocks in mma it's interesting right you see like so few figure four footlocks because the danger also for you to get hit right yeah then sometimes when you do the footlock your face your arms are both around the leg you can get a knock you're not defending yourself exactly what do you think about combat jiu-jitsu eddie's new invention man i think it's a way for people to step up to

71:51reality and understand and some guys make a decision do you know what i might be able to go and do mma too but that's a real world yeah if you fight somebody that's exactly what's gonna happen right and making people more aware of okay my jiu-jitsu for jiu-jitsu sport only is not gonna work that well for this kind of a jiu-jitsu i have now to be aware of more of my real fights yeah and i think it will help more the evolution of that sport of jiu-jitsu to transition to mma for people who don't know what combat jiu-jitsu is eddie bravo invented a way where you do jiu-jitsu with slaps on the ground and uh you you would think it's just oh it's just a slap but no a palm strike really i mean you really can hit someone very very hard with your palms i mean i can do that with my hand on the table and it doesn't hurt my hand at all but

72:44if i did that with my knuckles it would really hurt so they're there they can smack the shit out of each other we we still do that after we train jiu-jitsu is to call in portuguese taparia it's like a slap it you out after the train no shirts yes and we used to train like that in brazil oh really yes to be ready again we have no tournaments right i mean after the train let's see and we stand in front of each other and open hands and there we go slap each other make sure you don't get slapped on the face but on the end the train you have marks all over your body and you still shake your brother's hand they love you but you're all over mess are you still uh do you still lift weights yes i do how often do you do that two days a week two days a week but i but i like to run a lot i like outdoors yeah i run three four days a week yeah usually what are you running trails i did try my house now

73:40it's too hot i don't know unless you go early in the morning yeah i go pretty eight in the morning very hot even eight in the morning it was it was hot this morning when i went boy it's very hot right now but i like it there i think i i want to challenge my body always to bring the best off the resistance because i i i i think i don't like to go and run the same street over and over again somehow your body already got just to that right i'm always trying to find different trails yes this way is like in a fight you know change is up and down the whole time yeah and but it's something to the jiu-jitsu is my excuse to do all of this right i want to go and do better all my students are getting harder how can i switch that to make not that hard right i gotta do a little bit more harder than i was doing now how do you mix up your weight lifting training with your jiu-jitsu

74:35training do you do it in the morning and then train at night or do you do it after you train right now i'm doing before teaching to the train my intention is when i show up to the academy i'm already tired physically so that when you do train you can be relaxed and just this way my challenge is because i'm physically tired i make the level of my students higher because they have a lot of energy and they're good too it makes more challenge for myself to train with them because i don't have okay i'm my energy now i have to purely use the techniques the jiu-jitsu the techniques has must be on time i intentionally do that get that tired to make a good training for me and that's what i've been doing i show up and they don't know and hey let's go and train then uh i can't tell that man i should rest before training this guy today

75:33i don't know if he's getting that good and too tired everything's at the same time next week i'm not going to do that again so when you do it uh twice a week how do you mix it up like what kind of training you're doing i work uh one one day legs i lower up a body and this not a day up a body that's it always yes yeah so it's just to make you stronger just to keep the joints healthy and evidently feel the muscles i think it's important for it's like prevent injuries yes that's the main thing yeah and i've been using a lot the iron neck stuff remember the guy from the iron neck he sent it to me that equipment i'm using that it's amazing that i've been using that yeah it is i recommend any jujitsu guys oh for jujitsu guys it's a must go and get it man it's strong incredible well you said something to me once i'll never forget it go never trust your neck

76:22i still do not with all the strong and once you get to the to the neck you have to be very aware of start seeing little flashes after that gets dark oh yeah yeah there you go yeah oh i'm dizzy no you're about to go out my friend don't trust your neck never trust your neck yeah but it's uh at least that you could train it safely now with the iron neck there was always a bunch of different ways where people trained that were questionable like there's a lot of people that don't believe in neck bridges they said it's actually kind of dangerous man our neck is if you see the the spine it's so sensitive you got to be careful when you work your neck in jujitsu we don't use our head on the ground right base our body never and i think that our neck is again is the maintenance of having your neck or well around because that spinning thing that you do man you work every angle of your neck

77:18yeah and i do a very simple exercise i have this i touch into a bar and go forward and turn sideways very smooth movement do you do the ray charles very very very slow you have that bungee that keeps more or less tension yes yeah turn it sideways i love that machine or that that piece of training it was a great addition to all the exercise thanks to the guys because it's really really helpful yeah i recommend it to everybody it's just and for fighters that get hit in the head it's so important to have a strong neck to resist the impact it's the same thing we build up muscles around this way the muscles take the first hit right just like you're talking about building strength around your joints by lifting weights exactly the same thing exactly so are you doing like basic stuff like curls and dips and very basic

78:11different than the time that you're training for competition which is in heavy a lot of explosions and right this way just trying to maintain and everything else i do in jujitsu some days i train pushing more some days i pushing less some days i just training defense some days i training okay i gotta finish everybody today or i gotta mount everybody today you kind of make your training a goal for your training this way you're always excited to do it right you know and not having the same thing every day no i select okay today i'm gonna sweep everybody then i pull guard and keep playing guys my goal is sweep and some guys are very hard to sweep another day i just want to mount i can only finish people from the mount and i mean you you kind of make different goals and i think that keeps you and again my students there it usually is fun come on sure it's fun you never know what's going to

79:05happen right it's always a challenge your goals like oh man then you realize i should sleep two hours extra i'm tired now for sure if you really want to find out where your body's at go train oh man why i'm so sore i don't know and jujitsu will test you in every level um now what about nutrition i grew up did you follow the greasy diet i grew up doing the greasy diet with my uncle carlos could you explain that basically man the diet would be the foods that you combine right some foods when you make their combination you're not gonna get what you're expecting from the food and that's how we learn i eat a lot of fruits lots i i don't drink juices anywhere i make my own juice that's the only way you can have a proof that is actual fresh fresh and juice right and if you then very rarely i eat meat um fish and chicken

80:05and turkey more often than red meat i don't remember last time it's been a while but it's basically fruits is my i love it papaya in the morning cream cheese and honey uh late at night sometimes watermelon juice and tapioca i don't know if people know what tapioca is sure yeah tapioca pudding yeah not the pudding you make looks like a tortilla you make that in a pan and it's really healthy yeah i was sure you're making it in a pan yeah it's it's like a powder it's like a root and they shred the roots and uh and you you put in a in a pan and as the pan gets hit it looks like a tortilla in the end then you put a cream cheese and it's thousand times healthier than any kind of bread you eat in your life i mean things that are good for your body but basically fruits are my my my main thing well you're always burning

81:02off so much energy that's the other thing is jujitsu burns off so much energy and evidently the lifestyle you have you you burn more than you eat you're gonna keep your weight for i wait the same thing for in the past 10 years the same weight go up two pounds go down two pounds go up three pounds go down five pounds do you take any supplements i take uh i take maca turmeric powder mix and all those juice that i make as a more like preventive things and evidently learn sometimes i'm gonna train harder tomorrow i'm gonna eat some carbs today the carbs will become a lot of energy tomorrow my training and you basically little things that you learn but for me the main thing is to stay healthy right there we go i don't remember last time i was sick no really i don't remember last time wow people have headaches why you have a headache you have many ways of having a headache you're not

81:56drinking enough water or you need too much sugar i mean something that you're consuming right now gives you headache now what about uh post-workout recovery do you use sauna or ice bath or anything anything like that man uh the sound is a must yeah i mean i love it i see you put a lot of things it's a must so good it's so much and your body's always pure and clean i love my apps on south jacuzzi sit there for i don't know an hour and just forget about life yeah feels brand new after let me have a lot of things that you should do as to keep the longevity of us be able to do what we want to do and that stay healthy it's the main thing is stay hiking stay close to nature breathe trying to breathe a good air it's pretty hard in la but yeah you go up in the mountains man you feel like oh it's even on your mind you already changed the

82:54whole thing of uh and that's basically stay healthy like how can i teach or tell my student to do something if i'm not doing right it's like you go to the gym you have two different coaches one that looks healthy and the one that is it's pretty big which one you're gonna pick right the one that knows how to get the way he is yeah when you see guys that start letting themselves go and getting big and fat and it's like it's very disappointing yes it is i give a hard time to a lot of people that i know friends that let it go as a man yeah it's not what you say it's what you've been doing yeah you know don't do this then you're doing right i mean what kind of uh tomorrow by an example yeah people get tired they get lazy uh yes but man you you chose the wrong job to be lazy yeah you know you're a martial

83:48artist you can't be lazy as a martial artist right now do something to sit on the desk and don't do nothing then that's i understand but uh you're doing a martial arts and you get lazy no you can't you become in a way an example for a lot of people and that's why you make people do what you do yeah there's no it's it's not an option it's not an option to become not at all and as soon as i see someone who is doing that who becomes lazy and becomes fat i just i it's unfortunate you know it's unfortunate you're making a mistake i try i try to understand and sometimes i i don't i said look man again you chose the wrong line of work yeah i mean you're telling me that you don't like what you do because if you like what you do you're not going to be the way you are right now and it's uh jiu-jitsu is not working for you now which should be working right now more than ever well that's one of the

84:43great things about you my brothers you've always been a great example and you've always been a person who leads by example by the way the things you say but more importantly by the things you do uh for sure and i know that a lot of and uh i think we learned through the years that what you say and what you do will affect a lot of people out there and especially now in the social media get so many great inputs for people that i have no idea who they are like oh thank you for this thank you for that thank you for you to put a good quote out there i think those little things uh are have an impact in hours in a lot of people and uh i can't forget that and man i love what i do i never had a job do you have a work and now i try jiu-jitsu and the amazing things they give me money to do jiu-jitsu they pay me to do this like i can't be thank you then you know never had it you

85:41you have a great life you make friends every day yeah you know you make friends every day and you kind of are able now to help people just with something that you say sometimes i have a higher belt students or even lower belt students that show up for training and i learned that with one story my uncle told me he he uncle carlos he he used to live there and uh and uh back in those days he observes a lot of things and uh he has a it was a time in brazil have a lot of cockfighters and he has his regular rooster then he said man i'm gonna make money if it's his rooster i said okay and i'm gonna see how long the rooster actually fights and when i noticed the time how long he fights every time he's fighting i'm gonna get the real the cockfighter he start moving him out and the rooster think he's winning and he's been doing that for a while then he realized the rooster can only stay in a fight

86:49for two minutes after two minutes he run then he goes to arena and challenge anybody there with his rooster he's not made for a fight to fight anyone there for one minute and they bet the money and for one minute the rooster get beat up but fought for one minute did not run then one minute up he got his rooster hey give me the no let it fight i said no i said one minute the point was i have guys that come to my school and they're not having a good day and i can tell that by looking to their face and i'm start training with them and i let them give me a hard time and i go like man what's wrong with you today you kick my butt today and i can see the change that made in that person and i use that to train a lot of my students i'll give one example our friend eddie when he was before he fights hoiler when he called me in he wasn't in the best of his game and i

87:50know he's could be an amazing on the beginning i prohibit anybody to give him a hard time or anything as he started building up then towards the end i said man kick his butt he was so good and confident after a few months nobody could even get close to do nothing to him said man you're ready you're ready for a fight but on the beginning this was my way to work out his psychological to build him up he wasn't in the best shape he wasn't training said no you can't train if you're students everybody does what you do you're gonna fight somebody who doesn't do what you do you're gonna train with people that do what the other guy do right and here we are in three months we made him a monster and he did what he did in his fight we're using the same idea of my uncle telling me a story to make you start believing and towards the end i thought i got man get him nobody could get even

88:46clothes isn't it funny how much of it is psychological because when you are tired but you start doing well all of a sudden you have energy it's all in your mind and one of the things uh i try to remember who said that in uh we grew up in the fighting world i was seeing samurai bushido in the war and have a lot of good quotes and one of them was uh whenever you think you're tired your opponent is dead i always remember that until today i remember a yellow belt one of my cousins told me that man when you're tired your opponent is dead that keeps you going your opponent is dead he's dead he's he's way more tired than you are that's the time you have to push instead of trying to conserve no now push but what if you're tired and he's not this is this is the mindset then jujitsu gives you the tools but makes you never give up you can be tired we are going to be tired in a fight that's for sure

89:46but you're not going to give up how important do you think it is to do additional conditioning other than just taking classes if you want to go and participate in a an event in a tournament training the jujitsu training today you're going to do well if you want to win the tournament then you have to do more you have to to work out you have to do your physical because that always involves with your mindset a lot of people they get nervous because they feel they're not ready do you ever think that you'll have uh a jujitsu school that also has weights and cardio equipment and things like that and maybe even classes to help supplement jujitsu training i think it'll be a dream school for sure because a lot of people do not realize how beneficial that would be for them in general right not only for jujitsu because

90:44i keep telling people and always put them in their minds for them to get better and believe in themselves but when they do those things are challenged themselves if you challenge yourself every day you're going to bring the best of you every day if you do the same thing every day you already know what's going to happen whenever you challenge yourself you're going to bring something better and better you're going to grow more inside you're going to start believing so much more the capability that you have that would be a dream school i don't know any school that has like a real comprehensive gym strength conditioning gym attached to a jujitsu school jujitsu school i don't know any martial art mma places do mma places yeah like all those big gyms yeah but a lot of things like uh sometimes someone may ask me and my thought about was this when you go to mma gym and i think

91:33today they're specific for mma they mean they train enough grappling for mma they train enough punching for mma which is amazing but it's like you're going to a hospital you go there you have a general doctor but if you need a specialist you gotta go to the school that is specific for that purpose right striking or jujitsu even though now the biggest ones gyms out there they have the best instructors of anything all together right like american top team right they have yeah ricardo laborio i mean they have the best grappling coach you could have the wrestling but not all the schools are like that right that's a rare one but it's it's very challenged because of sometimes the ego among the instructors sure who the fight is going to listen to right you get a lot of jujitsu fighters and start training with a striking coach and the striking coach has them convinced that they're a

92:30striker and i think the biggest challenge for the mma guys is when is the right time for me to transition from standing to the ground right the ground to standing and that's the ones that find the right momentum to do that they're the ones that are winning and i know my uncle hillius said man sooner or later they're gonna get your number i mean that's the mma world very hard for you to retire without and when is the right time to retire right yeah it's hard to figure out for many many fighters no it's a lot of the things maybe money issues or maybe i don't want to give up being famous or maybe it's a lot of things involved i should retire like no well we've been around for a long time and we've seen a lot of fighters fight long past where they should have retired that's when they can get hurt really bad yeah and you see that's when the the injury can be resting be with him for a very long

93:31time yeah is it does it bother you when you see that like particularly like older fighters getting knocked out man for me i think the people surround them should be saying hey yeah enough is enough you know and um i hope all of them and i think the way it is today is everyone is able to make good for their life with enough money that they can live well not all of them unfortunately that's why they have to keep fighting as much as they can but it's a very challenge i think is i'll have to understand it's a short career you don't have 20 years fighting you have to understand is my body can take this much but after a certain point man then you can get hurt really bad um just so everybody knows on the wall the studio right there that's john jock machado's coral belt right there on that wall in the studio

94:24it's permanently you gave me that i only made honor i only made 10 of those one of them's right there my brother i know i gotta be for a special person joe hogan man it's awesome well uh thank you for everything man thank you for teaching me jiu-jitsu thank you for being such a great leader and a role model and uh just thanks for being here brother i really appreciate you well super joe thank you for having me here and uh now i can people don't keep asking hey why don't you go to see your hug and you i see you all the time and i think it's a great pleasure for me to be here amazing to see the transformation and i think in the mixed martial arts world in the martial arts world how important was to have someone like you that knows what you're talking about because i remember the first few days of ufc uh please ufc understand joe hogan was much bigger than ufc and i think ufc

95:20reached out to a point like that to have someone like you pushing and you have so many people that loves you that follows you and uh ufc was is your the voice of ufc you know and uh don't get me wrong those guys out there but uh when you're talking and you have all those main fights there is very different than when you see the other guys talking about because i know the involvement that you have in the martial arts and the knowledge that you have and it's really good to be here i mean in all this past 20 years see the amazing journey to follow you see you're getting bigger and bigger and uh be able to to see that from the beginning is amazing well thank you and i promise i'll be training soon as soon as his knee feels better i'll be back um and uh in tarzana that's your main school the malibu one unfortunately was affected by the fires but jay is now teaching somewhere else in the

96:11valley right where's he teaching i think we we have a lot of affiliation schools around here we have a one in chats world we have one in that's where jay is right jay bezos he goes he goes there on fridays yeah it's the kings i'll have the one in combat sports yes yeah and your gym the uh machado jiu-jitsu academy is in tarzana and uh you could find it online yeah we've been there for 27 years and now we're probably going to be moving around the area for something that we need more space unfortunately and fortunate the same fortunately then now we're blowing up wait until after this podcast uh we see yeah that's gonna be even more fucking crazy anything that comes out of jay hoge gets a lot bigger for sure well listen uh you have the best fucking school i've ever been to in the world and uh it's a beautiful environment it's a brotherhood and a sisterhood and that's one of the

97:02best things about it is how how much it is like family over there it's like everyone who trains with you it has the utmost respect for you and the way you are and the way you treat people it rubs off on everybody you really genuinely do make people a better person thank you sir now i'll see you back soon on the mat all right my brother thank you thank you bye everybody