Tom Segura: The Science and Craft of Comedy and Creativity

The conversation establishes the segment through concrete observations and working habits. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science based tools for everyday life. [MUSIC PLAYING] I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Tom Segura. Tom Segura is a renowned comedian, writer, and director. During today's episode, we explore the neuroscience and psychology behind comedy, and we explore the creative process more generally. Tom shares his approach to capturing and developing ideas into narratives that are at once funny and thought provoking. We discuss the interplay between daily-life observations and larger cultural dynamics when developing comedy routines. We spend a fair bit of time discussing the neurobiological basis of humor, and what data and brain lesion patients have taught us about why we find certain ideas novel, funny, or exciting. We also talk about how this relates to the activation of reward circuits in the brain, and the seemingly automatic way that things are either funny or not funny to people, suggesting that humor is like taste or smell. You really can't negotiate what works for you or what doesn't. We also discuss emotional contagion and how skilled performers like Tom become masters at reading, shifting, and dancing with the collective energy of crowds, whether in small comedy clubs or large arena shows. So if you're a creative or you're curious about human psychology, or if you simply love to laugh, you'll come away from today's episode having learned a ton of useful information about the creative process and human nature. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, this episode does include sponsors. These details show the creative process as a sequence of noticing, selecting and testing material rather than a single moment of inspiration.

The middle of this segment connects the personal example to a broader account of comedy and performance. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Yeah. Like two-mile races were OK. TOM SEGURA: I just did 5K. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Oh, yeah? TOM SEGURA: Two days ago. Yeah. ANDREW HUBERMAN: How'd that go? TOM SEGURA: I hated that, I knew I had to do it, and so I just made myself-- I was like, you got to do it, so it's going to suck. ANDREW HUBERMAN: You trained for it? The evidence remains situated in the speakers’ experience, so it illustrates a mechanism without pretending to be a controlled experiment or a universal rule.

The later discussion adds a practical or social consequence to the same theme. TOM SEGURA: Yeah. ANDREW HUBERMAN: So I don't know the exact distance, but it was not unusual when I was in graduate school to head out on a Sunday morning, just hydrated caffeine and do 10, 12 miles. TOM SEGURA: Wow. ANDREW HUBERMAN: But now it's probably more like 6, 8. TOM SEGURA: OK. ANDREW HUBERMAN: 6 to 8. TOM SEGURA: But also with a weighted vest? A useful limitation is that audience response, memory and cultural context can change what a joke means; the episode therefore leaves room for individual and situational variation.

The conversation establishes the segment through concrete observations and working habits. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Sometimes with a-- I use a vest. They're not a sponsor, which is fun to always mention things that aren't a sponsor too, because I love this weight vest. It's called OMORPHO, and it fits pretty snug. It's not like one of these ones that looks like you're a suicide bomber or a cop or something. TOM SEGURA: Yeah. ANDREW HUBERMAN: It sits really close to the body. It zips up. And it's got these heavy ball bearings in it. So it's only about 10 to 12 pounds. TOM SEGURA: Yeah. ANDREW HUBERMAN: So it's not like a super heavy weight vest. But it's enough that when you take that weight vest off on a-- run, you feel like a God. TOM SEGURA: I will say that as much as I say I hate running, the fact that I made myself keep doing-- I was doing daily runs, almost like five days a week, just of getting used to the mileage, obviously, it becomes easier. And then you go like, OK, I can do this. But yeah, I think I get a lot of mental anxiety about the running. These details show the creative process as a sequence of noticing, selecting and testing material rather than a single moment of inspiration.

The middle of this segment connects the personal example to a broader account of comedy and performance. But there's this phenomenon where when you move the large musculature of the body, so a resistance training workout, a run, probably any workout where you're doing some big movements or you're working hard in that workout, it triggers the release of adrenaline at levels that wake up your body, make it more willing to move. TOM SEGURA: Yes. ANDREW HUBERMAN: So people who don't have energy to exercise-- exercise gives your body energy by way of adrenaline. And then that adrenaline acts on this nerve called the vagus nerve, which communicates to the areas of your brain that release dopamine and something called norepinephrine. It basically wakes your brain up also. So that morning workout that you're describing, wakes up your brain and body for something like six hours by changing the neurochemical state of your body and your brain. And so it's not a surprise that when you work out before a long day, that long day goes better. TOM SEGURA: Yeah. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Whereas if you hit the work of the day fresh, you're generating the adrenaline drink from all that stuff. This is when people feel a bit more anxious. They feel a bit more irritable, they feel a bit more tired. So this whole concept of exercise gives you energy. That's how it gives you energy. It's not caloric energy. You still need to fuel, et cetera, but you're talking about neurochemical energy. It fundamentally changes the way you show up to everything else. The evidence remains situated in the speakers’ experience, so it illustrates a mechanism without pretending to be a controlled experiment or a universal rule.

The later discussion adds a practical or social consequence to the same theme. ANDREW HUBERMAN: What's your typical process of capturing ideas? Do you voice memo into the phone? Do you write things down? TOM SEGURA: I've done pretty much every version of it; voice notes while high. Sometimes you listen to them later and you're like, holy shit. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Are you a cannabis user? TOM SEGURA: I mean, sometimes. I'm not like a heavy user, but a lot of times at night if you take something and you go to sleep-- you're trying to go to sleep, your brain's like, nah, I got ideas. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Is that right? TOM SEGURA: Oh, yeah. ANDREW HUBERMAN: I haven't done cannabis in a long time ago. A useful limitation is that audience response, memory and cultural context can change what a joke means; the episode therefore leaves room for individual and situational variation.