The Price of Obsession Nobody Talks About - Zach Braff
嘉宾：Zach Braff
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as somebody that's basically a philistine and has seen maybe two or three theater shows in his entire life. >> Yeah. >> Of a career of being a spectator and obviously a person who kind of understands the art form as well. What are the ones that stand out to you as oh this is that was really really special? Well, I'll tell you lay Rob which is which which which is a probably a very common answer for people. I was like 13
years old and I had never really been moved to tears by art before. I had never seen something as as a young person so beautiful in my life. I was so moved by the music. I was so moved by the the stage craft. I was the story was thrilling. So that was a really seminal moment in my young life. You know, my dad had been bringing me to see all the play. Yeah. I lived in North Jersey. So my dad would bring me in, you know, it
took 45 minutes and we he loved theater. He he got me into it. So he would bring me to see all these plays. A lot of them were sillies. A lot would go over my head. Um, but I loved it. And then lay mis Rob was the first one where I was at the right age to to feel emotion to have tears streaming down my face. And that's when I was like, what is this? This art form is is something that is so powerful. And so then I went on to see
like so many productions that both both musicals and dramas and comedies where there was just so much joy for me in seeing it happen live and having it be different every single time. and the shared experience with people around you who are also swiping a tear or laughing. Uh that that's just something really magical when it's great. When it's great, it's just so fun. >> What about when it's bad? >> When it's bad, it's really bad. And uh
you know, I never leave an intermission just because I' I've I'm an actor myself and I feel too bad to do that. Um uh yeah, it can be it can be it can be horrible. Mhm. >> But um I try, you know, I do I do I do filter what I'm not I'm not going to see things totally blind. >> Not going in blind. >> I don't go in totally blind. No, that would be that would be that I'd be lying if I said I was just going to any random
show. I I definitely go to what I've heard my friends uh say, "You got to check this out." >> I've heard that you wanted to be a doctor at one point. >> When I was in high school, there was a program in my high school with the the town had a volunteer rescue squad. Um, I guess uh that that's just the way it works in some towns. Um, in New Jersey at least, I can only speak to that is that the town has a volunteer rescue
squad of people who are EMTs who who donate their time and there's an ambulance service on serious calls. The paramedics come in a separate ambulance from the hospital. Um, and they had a program for kids that were 17 and up to volunteer and get trained and go on calls. And I went on many calls. um with the ambulance service and you know you're mostly doing the grunt work. You're you're carrying gear, you're
moving the stretchers, uh you're you're taking blood pressures, but it was thrilling and uh I think there was a moment there where I thought, "Wow, what a what an exciting career path to be." And not that I could necessarily stand the education to become a real doctor um ironically, but um but maybe a paramedic or maybe um something in the something in the field. >> And um >> and then I just never really excelled at
the classes that you know, biology and chemistry and and all the things that you need to be really great at. I I just didn't have the interest or the skill. >> The fun bits were fun, but the technical got in the way. >> Adrenaline was fun and coming to the rescue was fun. And um uh I loved all that. I loved I loved coming to the rescue. I loved um the adrenaline of it. Um and and feeling like you helped
people and and you felt really good. Also, there was a volunteer aspect of it that I'm sorry that that was important part of it, too. I was I felt great that I was doing all of this and volunteering. In service. Yes. Interesting. You get the three emergency services, right? You've got ambulance, fire, police. There's an issue going on. The ambulance turns up. Everybody's grateful. There's an issue going on. The
fire service turns up. Everybody's grateful and turned on. The police turn up. People get a little bit suspicious. Unless you're the very person that needs it, everyone immediately gets on watch. And I always think I always feel bad for police officers. They're doing a thing. They're still doing a service. And in many ways, they're in the line of fire. They're dealing with much more kinetic situations. I guess fire firefighters,
too. And also I'm sure but you think [ __ ] like police officers are really you know they're being shouted at and there's all of this potential stuff and they're looking over the shoulders and and no that that must be hard. It must be hard to be a police officer when you look at your fellow you know of the three branches that you could have gone down in emergency services like people sort of clap and applaud and there's a
lot more heroism around that and the public perception I think of police officers has had a rough run for the last decade or so. >> Absolutely. And there's a lot more nuance to that profession than fire and and ambulance. >> Stop fire, get cat out of tree or keep person alive as opposed to do one of like 50,000 million things here. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um but there was a burglary, a home invasion on my street uh this week and
uh it's scary. I was certainly happy that they were they were there. home invasion, like a robbery while >> there broke in the house and and uh held this woman and and and and stole her jewelry and were in no rush to get out of there. It was scary. >> That's gnarly. >> Yeah, it was gnarly. >> Yeah. I um It's an interesting one thinking about what jobs you would do if you weren't doing what you did. I was
thinking about this the other day. Have you obviously you maybe didn't have the chops to do the >> I didn't have the I didn't have the interest in in in uh in in school enough to go to get into medical school or the SAT scores or the or the grades or I mean you really have to love school. Um I love design. I you know I think I'm really into uh architecture and design and I think that kind of overlaps with
what I do as a director because you're hiring and collaborating with extremely talented crafts people who are the best at what they do and you're saying I have this rough idea will you help me execute it and then you put together this team of insanely talented in the case of film cinematographers and production designers and costume designers and actors and everyone comes together and they help you execute. And uh and and
and to me, if I if I wasn't allowed to work in entertainment for some reason, that's something that really lights me up because I I I do love um architecture and design. >> Who's someone on a film set or on a on a production that makes a massive difference that most people from outside of the industry don't even consider? the cinematographer, I mean, I think is the is the number one uh collaborative
person the director has. That is his his or her right-hand person. >> What's that role for people that don't understand? For people that don't know, um, the way that this everything is photographed, the the the lens choice, the way just for example, this interview is being lit was lit by a talented cinematographer who chose where to put these three lights and and how does how what lenses he was going to put on the
cameras and how in post-production it was going to be colored. So much of that makes a difference. I would imagine a lot of layman uh think that that's all the director. the director is sort of the conductor of the orchestra. >> If the crew is the orchestra, the director is the conductor of the orchestra. And if the first violinist is, let's say, the most important person in the orchestra, uh, I would say that's
the cinematographer. And the director is there going, I can't play the violin like that. I can't play the bassoon like that. You guys are the best at what you do. My job is to go a little more of this, a little more, a little less of that. And um and yeah, the other position that I'm sure most people not in the business uh I'm sure most people in the business don't know anything about is the first ad who is the first assistant director
who's running the whole set. um in theater parliament that's kind of like the stage manager but you know the director is in charge of overseeing the creative aspects of of what we're making but someone is marshalling this often times enormous crew and all the background and all the actors all around and the and the head of that department is the first assistant director and that's a very stressful job. They um they
stereotypically die young because it's so stressful. >> No way. >> Yeah. >> They're trading the lifespan for good production. are they always laugh about it. They're always like, you know, we they always they always have a they always laugh and go, you know, when we stereotypically die young. Um, but it's very stressful job. It's hard to it's hard to do. >> They're the people that make sure it doesn't go into overtime.
>> Yeah. They're managing how much time you have. So when you make a schedule for we shoot scrubs, for example, in in 5 days and so they're >> How many episodes in 5 days? >> We shoot one episode in 5 days. >> Right. And so they always always even back in the day. Yeah. Five days. >> Wow. Okay. It's um it's kind of crazy. Um the new streaming comedies have the ones that I direct have um have sort of moved to 6 and 1/2 days, which is a
lot, which you think only is a day and a half more, but it's a huge difference in terms of executing it in a in a relatively sane way. We're talking about a half hour of television. uh doing it in five days is especially a show like Scrubs that has these uh surreal set pieces and uh you know the fantasies and >> lots of moving parts >> lots of moving parts like camera being a character and also not to mention that
you know 60 to 100 background every day. M >> so it's it's a lot to um to it's a big cruise ship to to to to move around and um the the first AD is in charge of making that schedule and um telling you like hey we're sort of [ __ ] for time. You got you got to move on. >> Yeah. Well, so that means that there's some scene that you aren't quite happy with and you're like dude this you it's done like you're done with the scene.
Well, you as the director are the are the ultimate uh decision maker and am I going to spend more time on this and then say, "Fuck that next scene. I'll do that. I'm I was I had a lot I good ideas about how I was going to shoot it. I'm going to shoot it way more simply now because this isn't working yet." >> You're you're the one who's in charge of of the day. The time has been allotted for that day for for just to do these
scenes. You have to do those scenes. >> Yep. Of course, occasionally you have to punt one, but for the most part, you have to do that. And um it's you're constantly watching the time and going, "Okay, fuck." And what we do is we the you I get a special call sheet that only certain people have, the producers and the ad. And that has little times written into all of the schedule because you don't want everyone knowing that
you're behind or you're ahead. It's not good for for it's not a good leadership thing. I I don't believe it's best that you just uh >> you do your job, I'll tell you when to move. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> Yeah. How's it feel to be back in an old production? >> I love it. It's a it's a a whole new responsibility for me because I I I did this show as a as a young man. I was very green. Um I learned so much doing it. And now
I'm back in a leadership executive producer role being the boss. And the guy who taught me everything I know is is not really there. And he um is there to advise me on the phone and he's there to get involved when there's a fire that needs putting out, but I'm back now in a in a in a capacity as as the leader and uh and it's a whole lot more stressful than just showing up and being funny. is that talk to me about the the
challenge of going from I just need to show up and do my lines to I need to show up and do everything and do my lines. >> It's extraordinarily stressful. Um did you want that? Did you not just want to go back and have fun? That wasn't going to work. Um so Bill Lawrence created the show and Bill it's it was his sort of oneperson vision. You know it was a very specific vision. The reason it worked so much it was it was
so unique. It was comedy. It was drama. It had surreal fantasies. Uh it had the the the setting of a hospital which has infinite possibilities for for comedy and drama. These seven main characters that audiences really fell in love with and and followed them for for eight and a half years. Um but Bill has many shows happening right now. So as much as everyone wanted Scrubs to come back, including Bill, he couldn't he certainly
couldn't be writing it and micromanaging it. So, who would do that? Um, there's someone who runs the writer room and is the head writer. Uh, her name is Aim Batra. She was a writer on the original Scrubs. Um, but the writer room is here in LA. We shoot the show in Vancouver. So, who is going to be overseeing Scrubs up there, the production of it all? Um, I had I had partners, um, several producing partners who helped
me, but I I know the show better than anybody. The truth, the truth. I know the show better than anyone. I direct the show. Um, and I and and my mentor was the guy. I mean, I'm I'm the one The funny thing is, I keep saying this is that the pilot of this New Scrubs is about JD coming back because Dr. Cox says, "You should come back." um we should get the band back together. You should come back and make a
difference. And and and and uh and JD acquieses and says, "Yes, I'm I'm I'm here. I can't wait to work with you." And then his mentor goes, "Oh, you misunderstood. I'm not going to be here. You're in charge." >> That's the pilot of the reboot, the revival. >> And we were up there shooting and it's literally what happened. I had had this impression even though Bill had said like, "Hey, I'm I'm running like three
other shows. I can't." And I also there's also just some stuff with you know it's a it's a Disney property he has a Warner Brothers deal. He can't be there complexity. So but I didn't really I truly didn't have the epiphany until we were shooting when I went this is literally the show we're making. He's the one who called me and said let's get everyone back together. This will be so fun. And now we're
literally shooting the pilot and it's so intense and so hard and we're really trying to nail this for the fans. And he's like oh and by the way I think he may have misunderstood like I'm not going to I'm not going to be there. this is you, you got this. >> And uh so I I did have to step up in a way that I hadn't foreseen. Um and it was very stressful, but when the pilot was cut, it was it changed everything. Everyone was like, "Oh, this
could be really good." The studio, the the network, Bill himself, everyone kind of >> Did it feel like a passing of the torch when he got the the pat on the shoulder from dad finally after all of these years? Absolutely. Cuz he's not huge with the compliments. >> He wrote me a Christmas card this year that was basically like the nicest thing he's ever said to me. And then it ended with, "I hope this will last for at
least a year." [laughter] Nostalgia is a pretty powerful force. >> Yeah. >> How do you make sure it's um serving the show instead of just trapping it? >> I think we were very aware of what are all the pitfalls of these revival, reboots, and revival. Malcolm in the Middle's comeback too. >> Yeah. I didn't never watch that show, but it's had I as I as I understand it been very well received for people that
that that show was important to >> um for our purposes. I was very I I I I sort of did research on what are the common pitfalls of this and one of them is just trying to milk nostalgia because you're never going to build a new audience by going remember this, remember that. Oh, wasn't it funny? just doing call back jokes >> that gets exhausting and also it doesn't interest a new uh base of the audience. You're just
having people that um were dieh hard fans of the original show which isn't enough to really sustain an audience for a modern day show that's in ABC prime time and streaming on Hulu the next day. >> You have to find you have to find a way to build the audience. And also Scrubs was very big around the world. So there's a lot of people that are going to that be interested, but they're not not going to hold their interest um with
just nostalgia bait. >> So the challenge is how do you thread that needle of um finding the tone again and but also bringing in new characters and new scenarios and new people. We're 50 years old now. We were we were the kids. The show was I just kind of you think this is funny. I had this epiphany just recently, but we were talking about ideas for season two. The show was about three interns. That's what the old show was about. Now
the show was about three attendings, three senior doctors. The it's a teaching hospital, so it's always going to be about have interns in it and about and about teaching and mentorship and friendship. But um the show the focus of the show isn't interns any anymore. The focus of the show is the teachers. Most people don't realize how much being dehydrated impacts their performance. Which is why for the last 5 years I've started pretty
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Did it make you see your experience from the past in a different way? Kind of fascinated at the opportunity to go back, anything that's been formative for anybody, any experience. Somebody goes to to university and uh they have a time there and they look back after a decade and they wish they' done things differently or they see things that passed them by or that they didn't pay attention to or they paid too much
attention to. And a lot of the time, you know, if only it's the if only like coach had put me in, I would have won the high school game and then my NFL contract. Ra varying degrees of different things. >> I um I wonder if >> after a long time, 9 years of shooting it originally >> to then a break to then I'm back again now different role if it makes you see that experience previously in a different light or if it allowed you to
close some loops and uh it made me grateful for how much I learned. I mean I was I wanted to make movies. I wanted to make TV. I wanted to be a director. I went to film school. I got out of film school. I was working as a production assistant and and waiting tables and auditioning or doing all the things I could to have as many, you know, um irons in the fire as possible. And then I got scrubs and I was so excited
because every def every week there's a different director. And it to me it was like grad school. I got to watch all of these great comedy directors do their thing and they all had different styles. and they have to work within the within the lexicon of the show. But they all had different techniques and styles and ways of doing things. And initially I was just so excited to absorb um their their their wisdom.
>> Your speedrunning production film school basically. >> Exactly. And with at a at a pro level being the star of the show >> and everyone else going to their dressing rooms, me hanging out on set being like, "Oh, what are you doing? That's so cool." And them going, "Oh, the reason I'm doing this is because of this." And so that was amazing. I think after a while if when I look back I go I I I I I started taking it for granted. I
I see some of my I you know Donald Fasison my co-starter we did a rewatch podcast of the show. That was one of the >> ultimately I think it was one of the catalysts for this revival and we were very candid. We we we watched it and and and didn't hold back when we thought we sucked or an episode sucked or we were overacting. And so I think when when I when I looked back at it, I thought, "Wow, I at a
certain point, I don't think I was as good and and I think I was overacting." And I think I I see where the wheels kind of fell off the bus. >> And so now I'm very aware of now that I'm the in charge, keeping everyone uh uh at a certain quality, especially myself. >> Did you ever feel constrained by being so well known for one role? Obviously, there's a >> Yeah. a curse of success in in some degrees. people get typ cast, but
what was some of the things that were enabled and some of the things that were limited by doing that? It's what everybody wants. I want to be really well known, have a wonderful production, and then at the same time, there's a >> there's some side dishes that come along with >> that happens to almost everyone that's lucky enough lucky enough, blessed enough to to have a breakout hit. Um, and it's very, if you look at the cases
in history, it's it's rare that those people get a whole new array of of opportunities. Um, Brian Cranston is an a perfect example of someone who did did Malcolm the Middle and was was that guy >> until he was the next guy >> until he and until Breaking Bad. that was passed on by, as I understand, the lore was passed on by like every network and and uh until I think AMC uh made it and Brian Cranston was
reborn. But they um that happens, of course, because people fall in love with with this beloved character and they don't see you as as another thing. >> You can't hardly complain because you were one of the extraordinarily lucky people who got a an opportunity like like that. But you do, I'm sure every But you can't help but bemoone like a I wish I could I wish I could be taken seriously as something else. I I was
lucky that I had my directing career that I really wanted to pursue. So my own movies and make my own stuff. Um but in the last couple years, um I've been finally getting a couple of parts that are outside the box of of JD. Something actually through Bill again, who's been my my biggest champion. He gave me a small part on u Bad Monkey, his show with Vince Fong, and I was only in a couple episodes, but the part was
so different, and I got so much positive feedback for it, and it it it it really gave me a new found um confidence in my own ability that I had sort of gone like maybe I am just, you know, a comic, maybe I am just a sort of JD kind of guy. I mean, I knew I had more >> colors in me, but I the response to that little arc on Bad Monkey gave me >> confidence and in a in a way. And then I went and did this indep independent
movie that just got into Tbeca where I'm 180 degrees from anything I've ever done playing the the this narcotics cop um who lost his daughter. It's a true story. And um so that movie is called Clean Hands and it's going to be at Tbeca uh to the Tbeca Film Festival this this summer. But so yeah, I would love to do more and more of that. Um, but I can't complain. I've had I've been so lucky. >> It's interesting. I I wonder how many
people get what you had, which is a kind of almost like a kind of Stockholm syndrome for your own success. So sometimes people get successful for doing a thing. Other people don't want to have to update their worldview about that person. So they don't like it when they deviate. I think we see this in our personal lives. Somebody is the party guy or the party girl and then I'm focusing on my health and it's like h this is I I I have to
change who I think you are. I used to be and like it can sometimes cause a little bit of obviously people that are in your life that are wanting the best for you are very happy that you're making this positive lifestyle change. But maybe people who don't want to make that change too their their behavior gets thrown into harsh contrast. Yeah. But the pressure from the outside, what's interesting about what you said was that
you started to see yourself potentially in that uh through the looking glass thing like well maybe I am maybe I am just that like maybe that is like you know lots of other people seem to like me in that and [ __ ] am I ever going to have a better hit than that thing before and I wonder whether it's the same thing with people who just want to change their lives. somebody wants to go from being that thing. It's like, well,
absolutely. >> Everyone else is telling me that I like I was the fun like party girl or whatever and now I'm like I'm just a mom and and I'm that's not as exciting or whatever. Maybe people don't >> maybe I'm not made for this as opposed to No, that it's their it's their problem. It's that person's issue to try and update their view of you evolving and changing person. By the way, that is true in both acting and in life that if
you change who you're being, the people around you have to change who they're being. If I'm in a scene with you and I'm all of a sudden decide to do a take where I'm [ __ ] screaming at you and yelling your face, if you're even a halfway decent actor, you're going to react differently in the scene. in life if I totally change my life and I'm not drinking anymore and I'm not going out late and I'm um going to the
gym and and you as my friend are going to shift your way of being around me because you have no choice. >> Uh we can we can both in acting and in life shift uh uh choose to shift who we're we're being and then people can't help but react differently to us. >> Yeah. Uh Joe Hudson, personal growth wizard, talks about how if you show up in a different way, the other person's patterns can only usually exist in his estimation for about five
to seven interactions. >> Oh wow. >> So there is a a typical way that you and your partner fight, right? They get to play the victim and you get to play the bully. They get to play the bully and you get to play the savior. Uh whatever the accepted trade is. I'm going to complain to you and you're going to feel agrieved or you're going to tell me what it is that I need to do and I'm going to appease you. Whatever it is, there's a
kind of exchange. There's a dance. There's a dance move, right? >> Tennis, it's like I'm going to hit the ball over there. You're going to >> you're going to hit it back in a particular way. And then if that happens, especially after, and the reason that he said this was after um going and doing something like the Hoffman process or internal family systems or uh groundbreakers, which is his equivalent, a weekend retreat, or
you you make a really big change in your life, perhaps it's over a short period of time or a longer period of time. But if this first exchange occurs, the person serves the ball across the net. If you don't hit it back, after between five and seven times of that not happening, the other person can't keep doing their pattern. They just simp I mean, I'm sure that there's some degree of sociopathy that you're able to get to
where you just you just do your thing. >> Oh, there's enough crazy people out there that will just [ __ ] plow through your your nice evolved, you know, renaissance patterns. But um yeah that you if you show up in a different way and I've tried to test this and it really does seem to be like scarily true. There's a a line Nal Ravakans got where he says um we think that we can change other people but we can't. We
think we can't change ourselves but we can. And the changing of other people the easiest way to do that I think in terms of behavior change is not by telling them what to do. It's just by doing something differently yourself >> and sticking to it. >> Yes. Yes. Because if you then fall back into they go, "Ah, I see." >> Right? >> It's kind of like It's kind of like training your dog. Uh if you don't, as
my Jersey said, dog, if you don't um the second, if you're creating training your dog, the second they're crying and you let them out, you're [ __ ] You [ __ ] it up. You know, uh hold the line. You have to hold the line. And in terms of uh my experience, I didn't know that someone had sort of quantified it to five to seven times. That's interesting. But um if you're going to shift your patterns and shift your way of being, you have to
hold the line. You have to you have to not let the dog out of the crate and and no matter no matter how hard they're crying because uh >> uh because then then then you've then those people aren't going to shift their way of being back with you. >> Yes. Yes. >> What have been the patterns that have been the I'm pretty fascinated by things that are double-edged swords. Most times, uh, someone's greatest strengths are the
light side of something that's kind of dark. That, um, Ed Ryan Garcia, WBC worldweight champion, and he's obsessive, incredibly obsessive, and that's caused him at some points in his career to drink a lot and party an awful lot and to struggle to get away from it. Uh, it's also caused him to be an absolutely like microscopically focused athlete. who would spend told me this story about how when he was a kid,
he had a fight in the ring with some guy and this guy kept on catching him with a particular shot and Ryan went home and he just spent two hours in his bedroom thinking about why was he what was he doing? Why was he catching me with that shot? What was he doing? What was he doing? What was he doing? Then he went downstairs and told his dad. He's like, "Tell the kid come back tomorrow." He's like, "You you sure you just got beat up
pretty bad?" Like that that didn't look like a good experience. He's like, "Bring him back tomorrow." And what he realized was that there was the guy was stepping and then jabbing and that offbeat was throwing Ryan off. And he was like, "Okay, so when he does this thing, I'm going to step and then I'm going to hit him with." And sure enough, the the whole game was over because he'd spent 2 hours replaying this fight in
his head cuz he couldn't not do it. >> Yeah. But that same skill of the obsession, of the attention to detail, of the hypervigilance also gave him the challenges of overbearing, problems with his relationships, problems with his kids, problems with substances, like very very out there, anxious, sort of like on edge thing. I'm interested in Mine's similar without the beating the [ __ ] out of anybody. [laughter]
>> No, I I I have OCD and I I I had it bad as a kid. I was I was one of those kids who had obsessive tapping and you do this math in your head as a child where or I should say I did where I you know it could be a doorork knob or it could be this water bottle and you say oh I have to I have to touch this a certain amount of times or uh something bad could happen to my family >> and then even as a young person I said
that's crazy of course but just to be safe it's kind of like a superstition adults can relate. >> Pascal's wager, the obsessives wager. >> Yeah. Is that what it's called? >> You know what Pascal's wager is? Basically, that um I don't know whether God is real or not, but the cost of not believing in God is hell and the potential benefit of believing in God is heaven. >> Okay, now imagine that in a uh
8-year-old's mind going, I'm wagering, I don't want my family to be harmed. >> Not sure if it's going to do anything, but I might as well. My brain is telling me that something bad could happen to my family if I don't hit this six times correctly. I know that's crazy, but for safety, for everybody's safety, I should do it. >> We'll do it again for safety. Yeah. Yeah. >> And that becomes, you know, I I I had it
pretty I had it bad, but you know, lots of adults and children have it uh way worse. But I got I I I was diagnosed with with that. And it made me an anxious. Um, my father had a real uh uh uh temper and um and that was scary. And I think I was um he was also he also had a lovely side and introduced me to the arts and um and uh and and could be and was hilarious. He introduced me to humor. But he did
have quite a temper that uh I think put me for the rest of my life on on edge of when something bad was going to happen, when he would randomly explode. >> Mhm. >> And [clears throat] uh that certainly affected my whole childhood and and and I I I still feel it as an adult just a sort of resting anxious state. M now that has been great for for uh for me in terms of writing and and comedy. It's but it's amazing that I I sometimes I I
find it crazy that I can operate at this in in these very anxious leadership positions [laughter] where so much is on the line and and there's always a problem and there's um I I I am so grateful that I've figured out how to um just still step into the ring and and and and do the really hard things like >> despite not feeling like it. >> Yeah. despite like, gosh, I this is going to be hard and I'm going to
experience panic and discomfort and anxiety and adrenaline surges that aren't necessarily normal for for the level of the problem. >> Yeah. >> I mean, an OCD anxious person will often have an adrenaline surge that is like you just almost got into a car accident and that's what leads some people to panic attacks. That's sort of like the needle going into red and staying in red and then there's a panic attack. Um
but but all of that has contributed to I think uh humor and and um and uh and and being in my head a lot and and maybe some good some decent writing that that's that's come out of that, you know, >> an attention to detail, right? >> Definitely obsessive attention to detail. >> Correct. And I what I was trying to think about >> me sitting there on on scrubs at 2 in the morning for an insert shot of a
phone that there's no reason I should be there for. these people can handle it, but I do not want to get to the editorial editorial and see that that's not the frame I pictured of the phone. That's that's that's definitely obsessive, but um it it I I it's how I make stuff. Most people have no idea where their testosterone levels sit. But what if I told you there was a solution? Something that identifies low tea faster than a
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>> as potentially before they've even yeah playing you know anxiety is all about uncertainty >> I'm uncertain about how the future might unfold so if I can think about all of the different ways ways that it might unfold. I will know all of the different potential catastrophes. You're not you're not usually anxious about all of the ways it might go right. Anxious about all of the ways that it might go
wrong. >> Yeah. >> And if I can, >> but as a filmmaker who can't fall asleep at night staring at the ceiling obsessing about the big scene you have tomorrow, it's not healthy, but it for for mind and body, but it is helpful in that I've probably foreseen everything that could possibly go wrong. >> Yep. Yeah. So, you're prepared. And I've got texts going out at 2:00 in the morning being like, "Did you guys da da
da d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d and and you know, everyone's asleep, but I'm start going like, >> you did order the blah blah, right?" You know, like I mean it's the dude it's the same for me. It's the same for me with this show. Um that noticing Dr. Jordan B. Peterson should have a full stop after the B and I just want to make sure that it's okay. Okay. And did
we check that we have we got the release form that's signed for the thing that's the thing. So what I'm thinking is lots of people who have that malady strength >> uh end up in situations where they they can be very successful. So my favorite example of this is to a degree uh Eddie Hall. So he's world's strongest man 2017 2018 British dude 6'3. By the time that he won, it's on the winner's podium and
he puts this trophy in the air and he says, "Nana, this one's for you." His grandma died recently and he's sort of won this title and he retires there. His first title and he retires. Well, he's worked his life to get there. He says, "If I hadn't retired at that point, I would be dead, divorced, with no relationship to my kids." He was 400 lb at 6'3 on so many peeds that his blood pressure was so far off the charts that
forget hypertension, this was like galactic tension. and he was working so hard with his training that him and his wife the relationship was just completely shot. >> Uh and his kid didn't see him. So everything was falling apart. >> And I think about that and I go, well, the level of obsession and attention to detail that led him to be the best in the world >> also had these side effects that came along with it. physiological ones that
were second order side effects, but the first order side effects of just not paying that much attention to my wife, not paying that much attention to my child, not nurturing my relationships, not thinking about the peace inside of my own brain. And as far as I can see, the people that are really successful at lots of things, not everything, but at lots of things, are paying an unreasonable level of attention to
detail. M >> that is where the I'm trying to net down what is the what's the like corn that's being grown out of this thing for you across your career. It's like an unreasonable level of attention to detail. Sounds like that in my own performance in what's going to go on and what might happen tomorrow and what did happen today and the lesson I need to learn and why is that why are you >> why have we decided cuz I don't
understand why you brought that fill lighter. Oh, it's for the bounce off the wall. >> Right. >> Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? And yeah, that unreasonable level of attention to detail has allowed you to do all these great things. >> Yes. >> And when people look at the outcome that they want, I would love to be on a show that gets run for gazillion gillion seasons and lasts for nine years and
then comes back and it gets to do the thing. I would like to I would I would go, okay, >> this stuff does come along for the ride, too. Yeah. You are also going to not only be awake at 2, >> but then it's also going to bleed over into your personal life as well. >> Yeah. >> You know, you can't switch it up. You can't say, "Oh, I I want you to be obsessive and ruminative in this domain and not be well, my relationships." No,
no, no, no. That's a totally different I should be a different person. I should jack and hide, Batman and Bruce Wayne. Um, I'm kind I'm kind of fascinated by that sphere of question, the price that people pay in order to have the strengths that they've got. I don't know how pe people do do this with big families. Uh, I don't know how they do it. Um, uh, I don't have a family. I don't have children.
>> I don't have a currently even have a partner. Uh I uh you know I I we when you're doing what I do, you often will have to go away for long periods of time. So I uh I I would love to have that stuff. But that's probably for me personally. Other people are very good at managing it and figuring it out. Obviously in Hollywood there's plenty of people with wives and husbands and families. I I um have yet to have that happen. Um so I
think personally for me one of the costs has been just obsessively um being career focused >> and um it it it being um the most important thing to me. The thing I love the most, the thing I get the most gratification out of is is creating. And um I think that the cost has probably been >> um giving watering the the the seeds of of of having um a family and a relationship. M how much of that's been a conscious choice? You I'm I know that
I'm going to pay this price potentially and I'm going to continue to focus on the career. >> It's not been a conscious choice. It's just been it, you know, um I do think I if I had put the level of attention and intention and focus into um having a relationship in a family that I put into my career, uh that I'd I'd have a different kingdom. Well, I Well, I just have a different [laughter] I'd be like uh Jacob in the Bible, but I
I I um I have um I I I I think it's safe to say I just kind of went all in on um I mean, I've had some wonderful relationships, but I I I have been through for the last 25 years completely career focused. And when I'm not making something, I'm writing something. or when I'm not writing something, I'm trying to collaborate with someone, I I I I am the most happy when I'm making stuff. >> Um, so when I'm not I don't idle well. I
don't I don't um I don't sit, you know, on a beach and uh and and and just stare at the ocean. Well, maybe for like a week. >> Yeah. I think about um people talk about developing a good work ethic, but very rarely do people talk about developing a good rest ethic. I would like that. If you got that book, I'll read it. I'm afraid not. Um I mean, look, dude, this is I I get I'm this is part of my neurosis, but I go I actually get
anxious when I know I'm going to have a long time off. >> Yeah. >> Does work feel like safety to you? >> I just feel like I'm most myself. most in my element when I'm collaborating and creating >> and uh and when I'm not I um I don't feel fully fulfilled u even when I'm writing my own stuff which is spending a lot of time alone with the computer I'm not I don't enjoy it on the collaboration >> there's no collaboration it's lonesome
it's depressing cuz some days are I'm sure you write you know some days you're just like I suck I suck and then the next day you read it and you're like actually that's not I woke I had a better night's sleep. I um I remember this this comment when I first started doing live stuff. So I just finished this live tour around Australia and and New Zealand and Bali and it was so so sick. And um when I first started doing live 3 years
ago uh someone commented with a piece of advice and they said when I'm on stage I always have two voices that are equally loud in my head. One makes me Apollo and the other makes me Sisphus. One says you're amazing and you can keep going and the other says you suck. You should quit immediately. And I just think it's so funny that when you have different elements of the same performance, right? Uh in in order to say a thing, you need
to write the thing first, unless you're going to add a little bit. And and that means that some days you sit down to write and you're like, I [ __ ] blow as a writer. And other days you sit down to write and you're like, I'm great as a writer. But at each different juncture, someone that tends to be a little bit more self-critical, someone that's got this predisposition toward hypervigilance going to be like, "That
could be better. It could always be better." Yeah. >> And that tends itself toward a kind of ingratitude like micro in ungratefulness each different time because you can always see. I mean, I love that shot of the phone. It was great. Oh, if we just had another half hour, if we we've been able to get that next 120D in and we'd just been able to, you know, adapt it a little bit more. And um but this is what
pushes somebody to be unreasonably detail- oriented and to get to a level of quality that is so beyond and the market and status and and and money and a claim. By design, there can only be one winner at an awards ceremony. There can only be one best anything, right, at a time. the market rewards someone that is going to continue to push and push. I don't know how people enter this business without having the mentality
that they're going to go all in at it. Because what I tell young people who I see starting out is like, okay, but make sure you're you're going to go 100% of what you have because every in this town, every single person around you, not every single person, there's hundreds of thousands of people here that are that are going to work really, really, really hard >> and they're going to have your lunch if
you don't. >> Absolutely. If you're going to audition and you don't have it memorized and you didn't work on it as hard as you possibly could and work with your friends or work with a coach or or in this case there's so much self taping, uh, get a good lighting setup and a good camera and and a nice backdrop and and you're just phoning it in. Do you know how many [ __ ] people are going all out for that same part?
>> It's basically pointless. >> You are wasting everyone's time, especially yours. Um, it's crazy uh when you come across people that are that are trying. I mean, I I only know this profession, but it's crazy when you come across people that are doing it halfass. It's like, what are you there just you're going to get blown out of the water. It was very much a winner takes all thing with only one person can play the role, right?
>> Only one person can be this particular the [ __ ] AC, right, that's on set. There's only one, maybe there's not actually, but there's only one number one AC, right? Well, three cameras. Three. >> Okay. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? >> There's only one a camera first AC. >> There we go. Thank you. Yeah, you could continue to go up the stack. Um, typically there's only one person for
each big thing, right? And you go, well, if that means that I'm not prepared to go all in on that one or think about it in a personal standpoint, um, you're going to go out dating, that person, unless you go polyamory, that person is only going to be in a relationship with one person. And if you are not showing up in the best possible way, being attentive, thinking about them, replying in an orderly manner,
doing stuff, being thoughtful, >> somebody that's just a bit more thoughtful or a bit more chill, like even the thoughtfulness of like I I probably text them a bit much today, like I should I I can chill out for a little bit. The hormones are the [ __ ] neurochemicals are kicking in. Um, >> you will be beaten. Yeah. Right. There will be somebody that's prepared to be more thoughtful. So whatever the
optimal strategy is with regards to effort, if you're not prepared to give it everything, the person that will just gets out ahead and that means that you've lost. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. And this is um a career path that uh is so much luck, but I often think of it as like it's all a complete lottery. I think if you're really really preposterously good-looking, you have a lot of lottery tickets.
>> And if you're a really [ __ ] talented actor, you have a lot of lottery tickets. If you're both, you have a [ __ ] ton of lottery tickets. But it's still a complete lottery because I know plenty of people that are wonderful actors and you don't know who they are. >> And I and plenty of people that are beautiful and good actors and you don't know who they are. M it's it's very very challenging uh uh career and I'm very
very present to to being lucky. >> Yeah. How many people have you seen across your career that you just you can't believe that they never made it? >> Plenty. >> Wow. >> Plenty. I can I I I can I um I have a couple people that come right to my mind uh who I'm like why have why is their number not come up yet? that person is gorgeous and has blue eyes and is one of the best actors I know. Um, you know, they might get work here and
there, >> but they're not a household name. They're not they're not not a lead on a show. >> Um, just go watch New York Theater. I mean, you'll see some of the best acting and in London, of course, you'll see some of the best acting you'll ever see in [clears throat] your lifetime. And some of those people don't can't or have yet to convert that to uh to TV or film. Did you know your gut controls your energy, your recovery, how
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back guarantee by going to the link in the description below or heading to live momentous.com/modernwisdism and using the code modern wisdom a checkout. How do you think people should reckon with the cuz that's a kind of uncertainty that's almost outside of your control, right? That you can't make somebody give you a chance at something. You can stack the deck in your favor as much as possible. But can understand why people become
bitter or jaded or resentful. >> Absolutely. If you're giving 100% and you're still not it's it's of course you're going to get jaded. It's it's there's no no one owes you anything in here. And and and I have to remind myself that too when I don't get stuff, you know. I I I still read for things when I'm when I'm when it's competitive and I want it. And uh you know I had a I had I had a [ __ ] I auditioned for
something that had a huge monologue. It was like a two-page monologue and just like I'm saying cuz I I look at a lot of audition tapes from the other side of the table if if I'm not you know how many people are going to memorize the [ __ ] out of this monologue and crush it. Why am I even going to waste the time if you're not going to do it? So for like a week I worked on memorizing this monologue.
>> I was walking the dog memor working on the monologue. I was [ __ ] doing the dishes looking over at the monologue. >> And I went in there, I blade a tape down and I crushed it. I was so proud of it. >> Didn't even get a call back. [laughter] Didn't even didn't even get a hey, good job. >> [ __ ] you, dude. >> And uh show came out and I saw the guy do it and I went, >> I was so much [ __ ] better than that
in my egotistical mind. But um but you know, I didn't I didn't get it. But I [ __ ] brought it. I brought 100%. Um, that doesn't mean you're going to get everything. Um, they didn't they didn't want me. They wanted him. Yeah. I wonder whether this is one of the reasons that people have such a This is interesting. I think the number one desired job of young kids is YouTuber and number two is influencer.
>> Oh god. Is that true? >> Horrendous. Yeah. Um, kids, if you're out there, you you don't want this smoke. I'm telling you, the sheer amount of screen time alone will kill you. Um, but I wonder whether one of the reasons that people like that, I'm aware kids don't necessarily know what they're getting themselves in for. One of the reasons that maybe older people might like the idea of it is that there's kind
of no rejection in the world of you can become not popular, but no one's telling you that you don't get to do the thing. >> You mean as a YouTuber influencer? >> Yeah. Yeah. If you're creating just a soloreneur or a small unit and you're the guy that's in front of the camera or whatever, like it's your thing. You can do it as much as you want. You can send an unlimited number of two-page monologues and put them on the internet
and you are the star >> even if that wouldn't have been picked up by somebody else and no one. It's a permissionless world. >> That's interesting. There's clearly um uh people weighing in on whether it works or not by how many views it's getting after a certain amount of time. >> Yeah. But that's not that's a sort of a soft rejection. >> Correct. Yes. Exactly. That's exactly what I'm thinking. >> Yeah. It's so interesting because we
didn't have that growing up as a thing. >> Mhm. >> It wasn't a position. Well, think about uh some people on YouTube now are even doing sketch shows in some of you full productions like Shane Gillis, Gillian Keeves >> this thing before >> he's now doing tires. >> Uh that's that was him just [ __ ] about like you don't need there's no there's a much smaller tighter thing. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> Absolutely. And uh I think there's a lot
of people making a great living being whatever their niche YouTube thing is. I go down the rabbit hole on these people and I I >> I I I've got some people that I just love to watch and I'm not even like I've been going down the rabbit hole on like these RV RVs or you know >> like van life people. >> Yeah. The recreational vehicle people that are >> giving tours of their vans. It's not a life I would ever lead. Although I'd
love to go camping in RV. I would never I I don't want to live full-time in RV. But I'm fascinated by these the algorithm has been sending me these people giving tours of their RVs. I love it. >> What have I been looking at recently? There's a a guy that plays a role- playinging 1800's British war game, like a a third person shooter war game, online thing, but he dresses in a full kind of colonial era
British soldier outfit in his house while he's doing it and he's got a monle on and he's got a huge [ __ ] trumpet and as he's doing the live streaming he blows the trumpet. He's like, "COME ON, BOYS. Don't need to be shy. Let's get them." And he blows this. I don't know what his neighbors think the [ __ ] is going on. So, like, I got into him. What else have I been getting into? >> You know what I'm really into now?
>> What? >> They have these [ __ ] videos of like the greatest hits of when detectives get people in the room like like to to to finally admit that they did it. psychopath finally realizes that he's not that the detective knows what's going on or whatever the >> or like guy who murdered all these people finally comes clean and the detect like and if someone's cut the video they've got a narrator like now
detective dumbarm will finally confront him with the and you see their techniques cuz you know they have the camera up in the ceiling and and all these they little by little they move in tighter and tighter to the guy that's one of the techniques I've learned you know they get closer and closer >> and uh you know they do good cop bad cop they bring and they switch into a woman, like all these techniques. And
>> you know, if you watched it for hours, it'd be so boring. But they've edited it down to like the most insane. >> It's like [ __ ] Red Zone. It's like or strike zone or whatever it's called in American Red. It's um American football when the football's live on a Saturday. It's only games that are in the final 10 yards >> and it just cuts between that. It's a highlight reel of the interrogation. >> This is that for interrogation. But they
cut like a specific case down to the like 30 well the story of the progression of I didn't do it to okay I did it to 30 minutes >> and it's and it's fascinating. Oh man, the algorithm knows I like that. I I I do want to do something with that just creatively. I've been talking to a a director about >> I'm really interested. I I loved adolescence that you know that show with the wonders and everything
>> with with I love that show because I thought it was so brilliant even outside of the incredible craftsmanship of making it as as as a as a wer but I I really am interested in in that that world of the detective work and the performance of of uh getting someone who's done something horrific to to finally admit it. I think that's so interesting. >> I I would be very interested. I can't think. I was trying to think in my mind
of a TV show where the detectives personal cost of hyper vigilance has been played out recently and I can't quite think of one and the reason that comes to mind I had a conversation with a guy called Emil Lavine and he wrote the book attached kind of broke attachment theory into the world I think it's the bestselling attachment book and he's just written written a new one called secure which is and
revisitation and evolution on the previous one. One of the studies that he taught me about was they bring uh people into a lab who have had their attachment styles assessed in advance and there's some anxious people in the room, there's some avoidant people in the room, then some secure people in the room and partway through the conversation might be one of those ones where they don't know whether it's started or not yet.
there might be in the waiting room or whatever and a computer that's in this office or whatever that they're sat in computer over the far side just gently starts wafting smoke out of it as if it's there's some sort of computer fire that's about to occur and he said that the anxious people are the first ones to notice but the avoidant people are the first ones out the door >> and what he was thinking about cuz he
spent all of this time talking about what this is what it's like to be an avoidant or a dismissive avoidant or a a a anxious person or a secure person and much of what you're talking about unless you're talking about secure attachment is here are the problems here are the challenges that you need to face here is how to overcome them. He's like well what about the advantages cuz that they there have to be advantages because this
has been selected for right evolutionarily this has been selected for so you have a degree of hypervigilance >> in the anxious people that's allowed them to pay attention to something that everybody else might not have noticed. The avoidant people are much quicker to make a decision. You know, the anxious, oh, should we leave? >> Is it going to upset someone? I'm not too avoidant person's like just wy
coyoted out the door. Yeah. >> And um >> what that led him to explain to me was >> if you were someone that's an EMT uh or if you were a uh a SWAT guy, um people who are avoidantly attached are able to partition off part of their brain. like I don't need those emotions right now. I don't need you rumination. I don't need you worry. I don't need you whatever. I got a job to do or I just don't want to engage. And the ability to
I just don't want to engage also means that there's a person bleeding on the side of the street and I just need to do my job. I need to be a professional here. >> That's the avoidant person. >> Correct. Yes. Their ability to partition off little bits. Uh but they wouldn't pay the same level of attention. So, if you were to cast, let's say, a cop show in this manner, you would expect most of the guys that are the kinetic door
kickers to be avoidantly attached. And you would expect most of the detectives that are paying an awful lot of attention to be anxiously attached cuz they're going to be >> Interesting. I noticed that the killer's shoe was untied on one side. I wonder what the That's how he That's how he choked. Whatever the [ __ ] like that. And what would be fascinating to me would be uh looking at somebody from the
role of a detective who has this unbelievable I mean you've seen this with Sherlock Holmes to a degree Benedict Cumberbatch's replaying of that kind of he is this unreasonably attention to detail guy in his professional life that can't switch it off in his private life. But I think seeing what you are praised for in public you pay for in private, >> how could that show up inside of a a crime detective thing? I think would be
really cool. You got something that's so pro-social and lorded bringing baddies to to heal and you know catching the catching the crims. >> Yeah. >> But then also you've got what's the what's the same talent causing on the other side and how is this person paying for it? That would be fun. >> That's interesting. I I you know, you see aspects of the detective work in the in the interrogation room in in you
know, almost every detective cop show or movie. Um, but I I I I'm I'm curious. I mean, this is just a side note, something I'm I'm curious about to develop for the for for some project in the future is really focusing on all these techniques they they are employing. sometimes they're they're bad techniques that they shouldn't be doing. They're manipulative and they get false confessions and all that kind of stuff. Um, but I I it's I
haven't seen anything that's really focused on their different strategies for I think it's interesting. >> What are the What are some of the coolest strategies that come to mind? cuz I remember seeing >> one thing I just rip watched recently where this guy wasn't even speaking and he was just just silent and um they these two guys were being aggressive and they were like we know we we got we know we know what you did. We
got and they did have a lot of evidence that it was him. They just needed him to say it. And um they they they said let's give the female detective a a try. And she came in and she went 180° different. She was like are you cold? sweetheart, let me get you a let me get you a uh a blanket. She got him a blanket. She goes, "You hungry." And he kind of nodded and she got him food and she kind of just sat next to
him and and little by little he started opening up to her. And it was, you know, that's a that's a subtle thing, but uh you know, there and then of and then he eventually um confessed and uh it was all of all them strategizing for how to get him to I don't know. I just think that that all the stuff those guys are guys and gals are taught is is and employed is really interesting to me. >> That would be fascinating. One thing
that they all do without fail is move closer and closer and closer as the person is getting uh closer to confessing. They they they move their physical position. >> Do they say why? >> Um I think it's just like uh intimacy and and and um closeness and um >> I don't know that's that's what's been studied to work on people. maybe create a sense of uh inescapableness too that as this person is opening up a bit more
they're they're backed into a corner they're backed into a corner >> I'm sure I don't really know fully know the psychology of it >> but you would have a three consultant criminology >> oh I would fully research it I >> but it would be [ __ ] sick because now you know all of this stuff which would just be fun to know >> yeah well you could employ it in your real life where were you last night >> ne negotiate a cheaper espresso over the
the counter because you got in close and tried to touch someone on the arm twice. >> Yeah. >> The you saw adolescence, right? >> I did. >> So that third episode with the with the psyching in the >> Yeah. >> I mean that was just that's an example where it was done just brilliantly uh of her being she's she's not a detective, she's a psychologist, I believe. And uh but their dynamic uh and the kid is such
an extraordinary they're both extraordinary actors. But that was an example of a fictional account of why I thought that was so brilliant. just it's all dialogue, all brilliant acting, just focused on uh peeling away the layers. I'd love to see something like that. Uh more of something. I'm personally interested in something like that. >> [ __ ] What was that thing with Kit Harrington in it? Uh the first episode,
it was on Netflix and then they did a French version and um the whole thing is set inside of one of these. So, there's been something like this made. >> Well, tell me cuz I'll watch it tonight. >> I'm gonna Dude, it [ __ ] rules. Kit Harrington detective confession series. Let's see if I can get it. A [ __ ] criminal called Criminal. It's on Netflix. >> Thank you. >> And there's two seasons now. And um it's
>> one ticket sold, >> dude. It [ __ ] rules. So the whole thing is set there. I don't think they ever leave the floor that this is on. They sometimes go outside for a [ __ ] coffee and then come back in. Um, but yeah, that was that was really really cool. I'm um I'm interested in what you think about you. The network TV is supposed to be dead thing. >> Yeah, Scrubs revival pulls in like 11 million.
>> It did really well >> people within the first 5 days. >> Yeah, they were wrong. >> What do you think that says about where audiences really are? I do think they um are still, you know, there's there's a lot of metrics now for for um for television, both broadcast and streaming. The first is the live viewing. That means you watched it when it was live. Then they're very interested in what the live viewing plus
3 days uh was. How many people uh DVRred either DVRred it and watched it within 3 days or a stream uh it was on the streaming platform, they watched within 3 days. And then the next metric they're most interested in is plus 7 days. How many people streamed it or watched the DVR they did of it uh within 7 days. So all of those numbers are very important uh to the modern day streamers and networks. Um
the numbers of people watching broadcast are completely a tiny fraction of what they were back when Scrubs was on television and you know the shows like Friends were getting numbers like you can't believe. Um um I mean I I I I don't have the stats in front of me but like the MASH finale uh was like you know a a large percentage of Earth was watching it you know. >> Yeah. Um that's just gone in terms of a
live thing other than the Super Bowl, you know, and I'm sure certain soccer uh games. Yep. >> Um it's just not a thing anymore. >> Olympics opening ceremony, >> whatever they are. We all know what they are. They're usually sports. Um um the final thing. >> Um but the the numbers still are there on broadcast TV for uh for for certain shows. people do want to not survivor. Survivors huge um you know there are comedies uh you know
uh uh like Scrubs and Abbott and uh and for example that uh are are doing really meaningful numbers because people do still watch broadcast. There are plenty of people that that uh they they skew older y >> um obviously a younger demographic is going to stream. They don't know. They don't know broadcasts. They didn't grow up with it. >> I wouldn't be able to watch it. I don't think I have a device in my house
>> that would be able to access live TV. >> Well, you could really put rabbit ears on your TV. >> Go old school. >> Yeah, you can. But the crazy thing about broadcast is it's in the air. It's It's free. >> Snag it. Yeah. Here's the cold open. No. Uh it's uh it's being broadcast to antennas that you could just put an antenna on your TV. And there's plenty of people, believe it or not, that still are are watching uh that, you know, the
broadcast um uh channels only. They don't have they, you know, of course, uh an older audience. Um so, um but all of those pockets of the pie, all of those slices of the pie are are are meaningful and important. So, there's the broadcast uh slice and then there's the then there's the streaming plus three plus seven. Those are those are all people we want to uh to watch the show. A funny interesting that's happened thing an
interesting thing that's [ __ ] take three. An interesting thing that's happened is that a giant really meaningful number of people went oh [ __ ] I never watched this show and went back and started the series. >> Oh cool. And and uh that's really cool because although it's gonna be a minute before their numbers affect the new show because they're gonna they have eight and a half long they got eight and a
half seasons to watch it. >> Yeah, it's a big run. >> But um but that's really cool too because plenty of people said to themselves, "Oh, I'm interested in this but I never watched it so I should probably start at the beginning." Um, so that's been cool too because the one thing that's fun about the revival is if if you're liking it and you're responding to it like it seems a lot of people are and you like these characters
and you never watched the show, well, guess what? There's eight years of how they became who they are. Uh, which is which is >> it's basically a massive prequel, but it wasn't. This is the sequel, but you've watched the sequel first, so go back and watch the the >> which if you love it is so cool. I would love that. Um, it's kind of like, you know, House of Dragons, Game of Thrones. That's exactly what I was thinking.
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is a night of a night of the kingdoms, the novela about Duncan and Egg, which is the new Game of Thrones thing. >> Oh, I didn't watch it. Was it good? >> No. [laughter] Such a shame. I'm such a massive Game of Thrones fan. I really liked House of Dragon. >> I I thought that was [ __ ] wonderful. >> But nothing can beat that first season of Game of Thrones. That was just like it was >> I'm not into that genre at all.
>> At all. >> You don't need to be. >> And they got me, >> dude. >> They got everybody. >> I mean, I was at uni. No, I wasn't. I wasn't at uni, but I was still in Newcastle when it was happening. And um the volume of extras that they needed with British accents in and around Ireland or able to access Ireland um was so [ __ ] high that basically anyone I knew with a beard was being tapped up. Were you Were you uh
>> I wasn't a beardy man at the time unfortunately. Um but we had we had a friend who had kind of long hair. It looked sort of warlocky and uh and he went and was he an extra in one of the scenes for the things. It's like we just need people that are in the [ __ ] British Isles to come and >> also it's cool because like they don't make TV on that scale that much >> um these days and as someone who loves
production and loves uh film making the seeing I mean it became so fun to watch the behind the scenes after the show one of the best parts >> because it was like wow how did you do that and I loved that aspect of it too just to watch you know big big productions >> a movie being done once a week a movie being released once And they remember the what's the one the the big battle uh where he's where Kid
Harrington surrounded we're really talking about a lot of Kid Harrington today but where he's surrounded the Battle of the Bastards I think it was called or whatever. Yeah. Your guys are nodding. >> That was just one of the most incredibly done episodes of television ever. And and then then then you had the fun if you're into this stuff of watching how the [ __ ] did they do that? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's uh one of my
favorite things when that was coming out. I would watch the episode and then there's a channel called Emergency Awesome and he does uh breakdowns of [ __ ] everything. The guy's like been doing it for quite a while. It's a huge channel and he would explain exactly what was going on in the episode and it kind of gazumped. I found out that uh spoiler alert that Jon Snow was a Targaryen like a full season before it
it happened on the show because he'd realized oh this flashback is with [ __ ] Ned Stark and did this thing helping helping you get out of context that you wouldn't necessarily be >> he's reading he's like the Sherlock Holmes of watching series and um >> oh he does it on a lot of shows >> he does it for [ __ ] all sorts yeah pretty much every big series that's coming out he seems to be other fantasy
come sci-fi genre. Um, but one of the things that was fun there was he basically, and I realized this with Game of Thrones in particular, he was using the Czechov's gun thing as a real hack for what was going to happen in in future episodes. So, >> there was basically nothing that happened after season three, especially season 4 in Game of Thrones, that was superfluous. Nothing. even though it was big and
quite unwieldy, there was never a pumpkin reference that was done that wouldn't pay off at some point in future. And he would always be able to say, "I know what's going to happen next week. This is what's going to go on because we just seen this thing happen." You might have noticed that they brought up that she wasn't talking much recently and that's because I was like, "This guy's >> it's better to watch it after."
>> I know. I know. But I got and I did kind of ruin the series for myself. I did kind of ruin it, but I got so much joy out of, >> you know, an hour, hour and a bit of the episode, then the 20 10 minute, 20 minute of the behind the scenes, then the next day I'd go and watch Emergency Awesome. That would be another hour. And I was like, "Oh, dude, I'm getting like [ __ ] triple my triple my money." I
don't watch trailers if I know I'm going to go see a movie. >> There's a lot that's revealed now. Yeah. I I if I'm excited, like I just went and saw the the Ryan Gosling movie, uh uh Project Hail Mary, which I everyone was talking about. And I was excited and I thought to myself, I'm not even going to watch the trailer cuz I I want to go have a great experience, >> not know what to expect. >> I mean, I know it's an astronaut movie.
I don't want to know anything else. >> Yeah. >> And uh that's how I that's how I am with most u when I know I'm going to go to the theater, I don't watch the trailer. >> That's fun. I once got um Neie got ejected from Harry Potter and the Cursed Child. Uh so me, this was uh February 2022. in Manhattan and I went with Douglas Murray, Jordan Peterson, Michaela Peterson, Tammy Peterson, a couple of their friends and it was when uh COVID
masks were still mandatory >> and we were all sat in a line. I'd moved to America 2 days before, so I was still I just go this crazy crazy. It's so big. All of the people some of them are fat, some of them are beautiful. It's crazy. And then we got to downtown Manhattan. and we go to the show and everyone's supposed to have masks on, but you're allowed to you can move the mask to one side if you taking a drink. And
obviously everyone's having refreshments, doing stuff like that. And um maybe somebody had taken there was a sugarin at the fact that Jordan and Douglas who were you rightcoded were this the theater or something like that with the the manager s and the staff something somebody was scrutinizing the amount of time that it was taking Tammy to pull her mask down to take a sip of water to then put the mask back up and had come over and
mentioned or maybe she'd like taken it off and taken a drink or whatever come over brought that up during the show and um then I don't think the response had been super cordial. It had been like okay like whatever you say and then it happened again and then someone stood at the end of our row and basically was sort of like on mask watching them and I could hear I was sat next to Douglas and I could hear Douglas doing breathing
exercises trying to keep himself calm. He's going [snorts] >> what an anxious my anxiety is creeping up because the thought of watching a play like that. Yeah. Well, I'm watching this while you're watching me. Anyway, the interval, the halftime interval, walked down. I can't wait to watch this. So, sure enough, I go through and I see uh Jordan and Douglas talking to the the manager lady, venue manager, and uh I
hear Jordan doing um so what do you mean by mask exactly? And what do you mean my sip exactly? And uh sure enough, this lady was really really pushing the limit uh of this. And we um I think we we were able to stay I think we stayed until the end but in a disgruntled way. And that was I was like I've been in I've been in America 3 days and this place is like it's just so much more uh people are so much more prepared to call out the
things that they don't on both sides. You know in the UK the manager would have apologized and the person that had done it would have they would have both apologized to each other >> at the same time. Everyone was so on edge you know. >> Yeah that was that was an interesting one. It's unreal man. I'm really happy for you. It's cool to see someone go full circle and and really love what they do. You're awesome.
>> Thank you. I I I really love your your show and I love uh when I I catch uh lots of inspiring uh advice from your from your uh Instagram clips. So, I really appreciate what you do. >> Heck yeah. I appreciate you, man. Good luck. Let's keep in touch. >> Yeah, appreciate. Goodbye, everyone. >> Congratulations. You made it to the end of a full podcast episode. You are not so Tik Tok brain that you've completely
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