JRE MMA Show #55 with Kelly Pavlik

00:01three two youngstown in the house how are you brother good how you doing thanks for doing this man i appreciate it no thanks for having me on i appreciate it you're out here um working with danny garcia no mikey garcia mikey garcia and garcia camp um also i came out you know a couple of things uh as we mentioned earlier a buddy of mine markle mike had thrown some ideas around and kind of just taking a week out here in california to you know keep moving it's nice right yeah yeah it was nice in uh ohio believe it or not and then uh this morning they woke up to like three inches of snow so i'm out here enjoying and they got the snow well the thing about la is no one's from here so everybody grew up in a place like youngstown or something like that like you were saying you're running into a bunch of youngstown people out here tony hinchcliffe got super excited to see you absolutely

00:54you know that's what's worried about that i'm excited to see him and he's excited to see me and it's uh it was really cool um you know i've heard of tony and i knew of tony you know before and everything and then uh to finally be able to meet him and somebody from youngstown that's doing you know great things it was kind of cool so yeah no it was cool hanging out with you when we were in columbus too that was a fun time i was that was good eating stew yeah what was the name of that place again you guys picked it i believe i think it was italian market i think whose joint was that is that it was your friend's friend of a friend matt brown's friend right i don't remember the name matthew mortal yes another good guy yeah i know he's he's a scary dude such a savage i gotta tell you a funny story with him we're at my gym and he came and did a seminar at my gym and uh it was i have

01:39just a fitness gym right now there and he was going over and he was showing people when he kind of came in and i was showing like a little punch and a hook and he started doing the the elbow off the hook now i'm a pretty big guy now since i retired and um you know i'm working on losing the weight but he hit me with that elbow on my arm and it just hurt and it was slow motion he wasn't throwing it hard i'm going to if this son of a really wanted to turn that over i wouldn't want to get hit by it yeah elbows are awful bones are awful it's like it always weirds me out that the ufc uh has little padding on the gloves but there's no padding in your shins no padding on your elbows no padding on your knees it's a terrible way to take a beating it is and people get into the brutality of it unfortunately not because i boxed i think box is more brutal the only reason is

02:29because if you get dropped in boxing you got 10 seconds to get up your brain could be rattled in the first round and you could get dropped four more times in that fight you got 36 minutes to fight and unfortunately in mma yeah they're hitting you with the knees the elbows and if you go down they usually stop to fight yeah rightfully so because somebody could come down with an atomic knee drop and you know that's not legal yeah i know but i'm just saying it's uh or anything can happen in it so when you were fighting uh mma wasn't as big as it is now but did you ever think about doing it no and be honest what you know um but i was always interested in it i was i was always interested in the martial arts um actually that's how i got into boxing was a young kid taking taekwondo and and uh i don't know that's how you pronounce it but yeah okay and um you know i got into it it was to

03:19me it was kind of like boring i'm a young kid you know i was full of piss of vinegar and i wanted to actually get in and do something i played other sports but uh you know then after i retired a little bit um i kind of strayed away from everything in a fight game and um i started getting interested in jiu jitsu and stuff like that and how old are you when you're retired 30 30. that's young yeah still i'm pretty young how old are you now 36 yeah you're still in the range yeah you know it's effective range oh that's why i've been uh working out and i know i kind of slowed down on the power lifting a lot and been doing getting flexible again so you haven't had a fight in six years do you ever get the itch that's why i'm saying you're getting the itch right now yeah really yeah i've been um well another reason why i came out and was talking with mark and everything but

04:14you know i don't want to leave nobody ever on either you know right this is something you just think i'm i'm really thinking about it and i'm working out losing the weight but at the same time there's a lot of process behind that too i would have to sit down with the family um just go over a lot of things you know are you doing any boxing these days i've been working out just hitting the bag pads and stuff like that right um you know i'm still lifting but nothing you're jacked dude look at the size of your arms i know i was you can't find middleweights on no then cruiserweight is that the nice area right now that's the range yeah anybody but you sick and uh i'm not fighting that that guy's scary as yeah and i don't you know the thing is everybody i did i mentioned this a couple weeks ago and the first thing that came out about it was he needs the money

05:00so i can't win for losing um you know what i mean like because there's other things right now that we're talking about actually been in contact believe it or not with dancing with the stars and uh oh jesus so i'm i'm having fun with it now i guess don't make no jokes i'd rather take a fight i'd rather fight you sick believe me dancing for the stars is hard work man talks talks of it yeah which mark my buddy mark's doing i've had a couple friends that have been on that yeah and he said it's brutally hard work it is the original ortiz it was a fighter been on it yeah so that's where it's going why i don't want people also the rumor mill starting that he's broke he needs the money because it's absolutely not the case um so you retired healthy yeah you retired young and you set some money away but you still look you were a world champion for a reason you know you had to to become a

05:53real world champion you have to have some crazy drive some competitive fire inside you so there is you know a lot of people don't understand any combat sport combats combat i'm uh not pat myself on the back i don't know if it's even good to say but you know combat world champion athletes and fighters mentality-wise you're always going to have that mentality you know right and my only reason why i'm even throwing this around and i guess that's the right term to use because if nothing comes up i don't want to backlash on that either because i'm still only 36. and i'm at that point where i got that small window still you know where i'm not 40 right i'm not 38 and uh you know i've been healthy for you know four and a half years and and i've been working out and what made you sound to go powerlifting exactly right i was tired think about it i was so damn skinny if i turned

06:57sideways and stuck my tongue out i look like a zipper you know what i mean um and being six foot two a hundred make it having to make 160 pounds even between fights you still had to maintain you know your weight and i got tired of that uh what was your walking around weight i'd walk around about 173 that's not that bad no that's not and mma that's real light yeah and you know and then but as i got older yeah i started getting a little more difficult to you know keep that and i started getting up to like 175 you know almost 180 so now you're looking at a and i'm still skinny at that point so now you're looking at having to lose 20 more pounds again to get down at that age and it came to a point um which caused a lot of issues for me in one fight with the martinez fight and uh after that we had to jump up hmm yeah that point of diminishing returns right when you're just cutting too much

07:48weight yeah when you fought jermaine taylor that was 160 right yes yeah dude that was one fight where i remember getting angry at larry merchant was larry merchant's call in the fight i'm like he's not he wasn't recognizing that you were tuning him up and you were hurting him and you it got like he was he was commenting on it almost like it was a trend that he expected to see rather than what was actually happening there was a lot of things about that fight i loved them guys because believe it or not in my opinion that was a great fight and i've seen that they had that fight in the top 10 middleweight uh one of the top 10 middleweight fights of all time and that's kind of a cool thing but also you know some of that commentating though really made that fight especially at the end in my opinion made that fight kind of what it was also you know besides the fact of me getting dropped

08:34and everything but um i didn't agree with the judging of it you know because i still had me ahead i went back and watched it i'm not one of those egotistical people either like i like to really break down what happened in that fight and i and if i lost the round i would say i lost a round you know i was hard on myself with that i watched that fight now probably 10 times and i don't see where they had jermaine winning you know yeah i gave him one round and plus the 10 8 so that's a total of three rounds and uh i don't see how that happened well you know i mean we've had this conversation a hundred times in this podcast but judging and boxing and judging in mma judging is just terrible yeah it's just terrible it's one it's sad it doesn't make any sense there's so many experts out there there's so many really reliable people that you can call on that would do a great job of

09:22of figuring out what's going on in a fight and for whatever reason they don't get those jobs i think they got to start doing something soon in boxing with that yeah they have to figure something out with the judging see the charlo fight yes yeah yeah there's a handful of people i had the argument with that actually thought charlotte lost um i didn't think that he looked as good as he could have in that fight yeah but i thought he won the fight you know um 116 112. but i don't know what system they could try to break down for that or try to get to actually start making some of them fights fair but boxing is doing fantastic the past two years i mean the numbers are crazy you've seen what the zone did with canelo and yeah so it's it's their just the attention's at the sport and the popularity of it's coming back but what could eventually hurt it again is things like the the judging of the

10:14fights the outcomes well there's certain ones where you you want to like you want a criminal investigation like uh tim bradley manny pacquiao that was one where after that was up i was like i was looking at the tv i was looking to the side i was looking away i was like what the did i just see what just happened here that fight right there i actually had to walk away with my head down i that that was probably one of the worst robberies that i've ever seen it was a horrible robbery i searched to give tim bradley two rounds i gave him one i was trying to give him rounds to kind of like say how where did you get this at in other words and i couldn't do it yeah i love tim bradley too by the way awesome guy awesome awesome fighter too i mean he's just all heart i mean that guy's he's amazing but that just was a bad decision and you know i think there was a there

11:08was a lady that was responsible for two really bad decisions bird yeah was it her was it was another one too there was a natalie bird she does mma too i want to say uh yeah letterman's daughter maybe well there was no there was another lady who uh retired from doing it after that decision it was like a big controversy people were that her her score was so off people were thinking she got paid off there's so many anymore though it's hard to keep up with it yeah well the thing is and people that are cynical or skeptical do you know how much money is being bet on fights especially a manny pacquiao fight there's so much money and if someone like pacquiao is a prohibited favorite headed into tin bradley fight i mean who knows it could be four to one five to one six to one somebody rolls up with a nice brown baggy fill with hundreds hey look who we got in here

11:58here's thirty thousand dollars i think you have to report i think there's yeah there's more behind why that happens too it has to be that's always been the idea that there's no bribery going on anymore it's crazy i don't want to say it but i think i have yeah i think i have an idea you know i think it comes down to who's putting the show on and who's who's in the pocket well teddy atlas was explaining it too when he was on the podcast one of the things that he was saying was that they take these people out to dinner like like they're all in cahoots and friendly with each other and if there's a certain result that the promoter would like to see these judges will lean towards that if they have a good relationship with that promoter you said it for me yeah that's what it did look teddy laid it out and um i don't know yeah it's bad because again boxing's really coming back it is and

12:49the fights you got three or four weight classes right now that's so interesting but the bad part about it is you don't get interested in it or you don't get as excited anymore because you're afraid of the outcome of the fight yeah you know i wasn't terribly upset at the wilder fury decision i wasn't terribly upset i thought i thought you know what i think tyson fury did enough to win but when i look at it i like when i like when they score damage damage means a lot to me when i look at that fight when when wilder heard him he hurt him twice and he hurt him real bad i mean i think that's worth a lot and i think he was always threatening so i felt like i don't know if i would agree with a draw i think it was a close decision win for tyson fewer but i didn't hate it i didn't hate it because i think i'd like to see them fight again absolutely i mean it was one of them fights where yes

13:47you're 100 right that it could end in a draw and i think everybody would be kind of satisfied with that yeah um unfortunately with the accountant knockdown which i was so frustrated with the the comments and you know i had to stay away from the social media and the boxing groups and and things like that because oh just you know the some of the um opinions of people asked the way to put it uh oh that that was a long count and this and that there's been thousands of fights in the last 10 years and i've very sort of heard anybody complain about account you know that that fight um they don't do a 10-second count in boxing they go by the referee's count right and for another thing where uh wilder kind of hurt himself referee tells you in the locker room before the fight and he explains it to you go to your neutral corner if you come out of your neutral corner i will stop the count

14:39you mean you know that so the first thing i used to do when i dropped somebody is i ran my ass to that neutral corner you know so that referee could start counting um i didn't see any issue with the the knockdown i even recorded it on my phone and if you did go by the 10 second count tyson fury still beat it really yes i have it you know i'd have to go through and find it um i thought i saw it on uh instagram or one it was i think it was on wilder's instagram where he had it where the count starts right when fury drops i counted so it was his back almost right before his back hits the ground until where he got up and again that's only a 10-second count without a referee even coming over to it you know okay um but you know as far as the the fight itself i gave i gave wilder obviously the two knockdowns that's automatically four rounds but i thought and i gave him one other

15:30round after that i thought tyson ferry controlled the action you know i had controlled the momentum of the fight on the flip side of it i think that walter actually could have made that an easier fight too you know wilder actually has a hard time with his control he don't know how to really work to the body i don't want to put it on a trainer i don't know what the issue is with that but he neglected that body a lot throughout the fight and i just thought that's why tyson won most of those rounds you know he just controlled the action the pace and was kind of able to do what he wanted to and i think that if walter went back with his trainer and watched the tape of that fight they're going to see a lot of opportunities that were missed in that fight well you know what's crazy about wilder is how little time he's actually been boxing i mean it's really stunning

16:12when he was on here he told us that he made the olympic team a year and a half into work learning boxing yeah and he won a bronze medal in the heavyweight division though you could kind of get away with that too yeah you can you know most of your heavy for well back then also we're big guys who came up usually most of them were football players or something like that and they kind of just got into the sport and still even to this day you're talking about maybe three heavy weights that really could throw down um as where some of the other guys are just big sloppy guys that come in right you know so what do we got now you got luis ortiz you got fury wilder joshua who else joseph parker yeah parker you know i think right now parker's one of the guys that could actually still upset anybody in heavyweight division yeah especially with that style that he has yeah um

17:01so it's getting interesting again though it is it's it's certainly well i think with wilder and fury that was one of the more interesting heavyweight title fights in a long time and and wilder's so it's so weird he's so different he weighs 209 pounds he's skinny as a rail he hits you looks like you got hit in the face with a missile i mean it's crazy because that is a missile he's firing crazy power that guy yeah it is and i try to explain to people on that too you don't have to be a big guy yeah you know it's all about the leverage how you torque uh where you how you generate that power and you know he's just one of them guys that that's one of the things where you either have it yeah you got in the cradle or you don't and that's another one you try to explain even like in baseball you're either a home run hitter or you're not you know you could work on a little bit

17:49and maybe knock one or two more home runs out or knock a guy or two out more but if you don't have you're not going to unless you really go back over and find the time and patience to reprogram that fighter and change the whole style yeah it feels like one punch knockout power you either have or you don't yeah and but the the guys who can put it on you and stop you like julio cesar chavez never had really that one punch knockout power but he a lot of people up and he had that body shot too he didn't need a knockout punch to the head dude he was so perfect when he was in his prime the way he would fight was constant bobbing weaving moving in and then once he put that pace on you it was just constant damage constant punches the volume the volume the accuracy and the fact that he never got tired he would just keep that pace up and you would see guys just start to

18:41wilt just backing up all the time just wilt under that pressure yep then that's that that body attack that he had how he invested into that body from the early rounds people carry those punches you know they carry that into the fifth and sixth round and yeah it was brutal you know i couldn't imagine uh fighting i fought some tough guys but i was glad you know being a tall guy nobody ever went to the body like that against me i would have hated that it's a rough way to make a living bro there is chavez in his prime god damn he was good whoo he was so good i mean it's just constant movement too constant cutting angles and the pressure another one like him was duran too that's roger mayweather right yes yeah black mamba yeah people forgot about roger he just systematically broke you down chavez yeah very tactical and and textbook and that make many mistakes he wasn't flashy

19:38he wasn't overly fast he wasn't overly powerful but he just broke you down the right way through the right punches yeah he that's what that's the best way to put it through the right punches he was just relentless and he was constantly moving forward constant pressure god damn he was good yup and you know uh oh greg halgen oh remember that when greg haugen said he fought a bunch of tijuana taxi drivers and he beat the out of greg yeah there's those left hooks to the body it was just like tough taxi drivers young fighters man you want to like emulate a guy who just fought with perfect technique this is the guy well you know that comes down to another thing that i was breaking down i actually i touched on it on my show a lot and a lot of people get mixed up and confused on the fact of footwork with people and some of the guys that had the best footwork in boxing were not flashy

20:28guys with the footwork or even like mikey garcia now or like a bernard hopkins is another one but you had guys pernell whitaker i know i'm gonna probably get beat up on this he he he had decent footwork what i mean by that is because yeah he make you miss but pernell whitaker a lot of times put himself out of range by moving like that you know he'd make that move or he'd do it too much and then he wasn't there to counter so what good did it do you get guys like chavez or duran or guys like mikey garcia now they take that one little step inches and angles they take that one step in their right in position for that punch they take the opposite step to suffocate your punch you know and throw you off they spin you around you know that's where footwork comes in and chavez was great at that yeah um he was always in range he was always in range he was never never

21:18running away and yeah yeah and his like you know the guy who does it the best today about cutting angles and being right in front of you and can't him is lomachenko lomachenko stands right in front of you and then he's not yeah and then he's over here and then he's punching you in the face tj dillashaw who's a ufc bantamweight champion said he's barred with him and he said the first round was like you know lumachenko is just feeling them up just figuring them out and you know he's like wow i'm kind of hanging in there with this guy and then his dad yelled something in russian and then the second round lomachenko's just dancing around him stepping to the side touching them that was the only round they put on youtube too you know what i mean um yeah i've seen that you know the thing with lomachenko is this uh and i tell people also like floyd mayweather

22:07was is unbelievable defensive fighter but floyd was really good on drawing you in you know and kind of countering off that his defense and his reflexes were amazing but he kind of lured you in a little bit made you miss made you make a mistake and then he would counter you yeah lomachenko on the other hand is a guy you could throw a punch and that punch could be in midair and he's spinning and he's already behind you yeah it's uh the athleticism is astonishing i have not seen it granted can he lose absolutely it's boxing and if you get one of them rugged guys that are just going to come in and say you know what screw it i'm going to i'm just going to get hit but i'm going to hit him that may be a type of fighter that beats lomachenko well who was it that was the mexican guy who beat him uh in one of his first fights oh uh solis uh celito right right right

22:59yeah that was the kind of fight that he fought yeah just dirty got on top of him but you gotta understand on that point too that was lomachenko's second pro fight yeah and against a real veteran a guy who's been there and done it and seen it and that's the argument and it's hard to explain again and that was another argument on these uh that i get a little frustrated reading the second pro fight usually in boxing though it goes like the first year you're up four or six second year maybe you start getting up to eight but you get a good amount of fights under your belt before you start getting into the 10 rounds and 12 rounds okay you're talking about a kick coming out of the amateurs fighting three three minute rounds or four two minute rounds depending on whatever tournament or international tournament it is and he's going right into a 12-round fight i know my myself coming up and the

23:52process that top rank brought me up which was a great process too they had they picked the fights and they made sure the fights that they picked for me were the correct fights and they groomed me the right way you know by rounds and everything else and i know just jumping from six to eight the difference in that you know let alone being a kid and you're going into your second pro fight and you're fighting a 12-round fight so if he lost that fight which he came back and he made it a really close fight i would have to tip my hat to him just on the fact that he was able to go 12 rounds yeah you know people take a lot away from from that fighter what he accomplished is something that not many can do well it's crazy i mean he had a second pro title at what how many fights in yeah the second fight was for the world title that he won the world title in his third pro fight yeah that's insane and

24:41then but he's had more than one per world title right mm-hmm yes he's won i think three different weight classes right but his second one was something insane some insanely short see pull up his record yeah i believe if i'm right i look this up what's up this is his first fight was for the international featherweight title that was against toledo ramirez he said he lost against toledo for the vacant wbo featherweight title oh okay so the other what was the first title uh international featherweight title wbo yeah that's not a real that's not like a world title this they have a bunch of weird titles right like international title continental title here you're insulting me i had the video i had to do you were the world champion but you had all of it you were unified well it should have been by all rights but taylor vacated too oh that's right yes but you know that's why

25:31i get mad and that's another big argument in boxing how you break that down between the lineage the lineal and uh unanimous you know i had to bring the wbo scroll scrub cc as well so what was his uh okay so his second world title was when retained retained one okay one two three four five six fights in he's in a second he's um he that's when he he he wins his second title six fights in he wins the junior lightweight title that's insane yeah the international okay that wasn't the first one wasn't a world title fight it was the right but the second one was the wbo world title fight 11 fights in he wins his third world title what in the i believe now there was at one point it was seven world champions and just that short period of fights i believe it's around eight now eight world championships fought in just that short period uh three different weight classes

26:31i think when you fought with gandhi out you really got a chance to see how he handles a real world class you know cuban amateur system trained top of the food chain boxer and he just put it to that dude that was the fight that actually really sold me on lumberjack oh yeah because i thought for a fact that that was going to be a chess match because of the boxing ability from rigandaal their styles were very similar yeah and i thought that you know i was like it's going to be a boring fight for the first like four rounds which i still don't like because i like watching that type of fights you know and um i see i go in there and i'm expecting this fight you know the amateur background of both guys the how talented the guys are in a skill level of both guys and then next thing i know i'm two or three rounds into it and i'm going he's playing with rigandel yeah playing with him i'm going hell

27:26that's the fight that really sold me on lomachenko that he's that good my man vinnie pasienza called that not vinnie passions of the boxer vinnie paz the rapper this guy jedi mind tricks he called it he was taking he was taking bets on instagram he called it that early too yes he was taking bets on instagram if you think you regandio has anything for him he's like he's finding the dms he goes let's bet yep i uh i i took lomachenko in that fight but i thought it was going to be a close fight a really close fight and i thought lomachenko was going to pull ahead in the later rounds you know and win that fight so that's why it really surprised me you know well it was a stunning display of talent he's such a weird guy too because uh his background you know the story where his father took him out of boxing and made him do traditional russian dancing for several years

28:16and just made him learn that for footwork it seems like his dad was just a mastermind architect of a champion yeah you probably know more on this than i would didn't he also have a martial art background i heard he definitely can do martial arts techniques i've seen it but i don't know what i thought he had a martial arts background maybe yeah i don't know that makes sense he's uh his footwork though is so extraordinary and if that really is that dancing background like learning the the footwork and the the way he he's so agile with the stepping of his feet it's like i think a lot of people are going to learn and mirror that yeah his training regimen is pretty brutal also i got a buddy uh roger romo um a good friend of mine he's actually he was working for a little while there up until the last fight he was a strength and conditioning coach what cecilia

29:04flores who was mine when i was in oxnard training and they said it was just crazy that the hours that he puts in how he trains how hard he trains and some of the drills that he does you know i'm looking at them and going i could use these not for me but i could use them for some of the athletes that i got now yeah he's um he's definitely something special and you know you get those guys and it's just it's kind of a shame that he's a little too small for terence crawford you know i mean i really would love to see those two fight but it seems like crawford's just a little bit too heavy for him i agree but that's a you know that's another touchy subject uh because i kind of agree with you but i also go back because i'm always trying to really break down and and nitpick i look at guys like manny pacquiao who was who came from i believe 112 or something like that and went up

29:54all the way to junior middleweight which is crazy yeah he's small shorter than lomachenko yeah and other in his calves i don't think anything else is much bigger than lomachenko on his body and he was able to do it what the is going on with his calves i don't know it's like he's keeping hams in them i don't know what he does i you know i wish i knew the secret to that because i could use it so get that secret to jon jones this article says that his mother was actually martial or still is a martial artist oh interesting yeah gymnastic martial artist well it makes sense boxer yeah man footwork the way he does it is just it's something to watch man it's just the the the ability to to move and also to anticipate the other fighter's movements it's like especially earlier in his career it's like he was fighting guys that just they seemed so crude in comparison to his

30:44approach yeah you know what's even more crazy about it is being the opponent because usually you go into a fight and you break down film and you're going over to film and you've got a good idea of what he does right what he does wrong and and what you might want have to do lomachenko is hard to pick up where he's gonna go he'd be different angles so you can't you can't go well you know what after he throws the the right hand he likes to move over to the left because he does it one time and then the next time he's totally somewhere opposite yeah you know what i mean and yeah the angles it's really almost impossible to break film down on them you know like this last fight with this pedrozo everybody's going that was the blueprint no no no it wasn't you know he uh and they're saying it was a closer fight than you know people expected i go why because he finally got hit with more

31:29than 11 punches in a fight oh that's him uh doing some a i believe i guess yeah trained it when he was a younger greco-roman yeah yeah he's he's slamming kids that's right well you know what man i believe in cross-training and i think that there's certainly some skills that would make you better at different martial arts and uh i feel like if you have the ability to wrestle guys and and move guys bodies around like that you would get from something like i just feel like as a an elite boxer having that extra strength that extra ability to move your core that way i think that would be beneficial yeah i mean the thing is no world-class boxer has the time to also be doing judo and also be doing wrestling you just don't have the time nope and being in combat sports even i know that as far as i'm not involved in mma but i know that you know these guys they have to perfect

32:24three or four as much time in a short period of time you know i imagine i think matt was telling me you would know more like sometimes it's two days of one two days of the next um trying to fit that in yeah it's hard you cannot especially in boxing the sweet science where it's just hands but you got people that's all you do all day long right that's why i say it's so unfair when an mma guy goes in and fights at mayweather because mayweather he perfected that yeah and you got to use just that style of boxing it's going to be almost impossible to beat a boxer a world champion boxer did you watch the new year's fight that thing that he did with attention yeah yeah a lot of people think that was a fixed fight i think that was 120 pound fighter fighting the best ever yeah i mean it's just this it wasn't a fixed fight i don't know why people think it's a fixed fight that guy

33:14fights at 126 pounds i think yeah i think that's his weight class and you could definitely tell the size just like i could actually tell the size difference though when mcgregor fought yeah floyd you know i think uh both of floyd's legs equaled one of mcgregor's yeah but yeah with that tension um that fight the first knockdown was legit yeah and i think my personal opinion would happen it wasn't fixed you know or fake i believe that he got hit with that right hand and seen that how strong and how the defensive skills that uh mayweather had and i think he said you know what this could be a long ass night and then the next couple punches he just kind of like went down because he's seen what could happen he knew which way that fight was going really yeah that's what you think i do the first knock down let's go let's play that fight see if you can find the fight and play

33:59it i feel like the first one clipped him on the temple he hit him with a left hook on the temple hit him with a right hand but then hit him with a left hook the right hand uh and then he hit him afterwards as well as he's going down but i think that left hand to the temple is what did the real damage and then um then there was a big right hand afterwards that dropped him i just think he was out of his league exactly way out of his league not that he took a dive but almost to the point of like he knew that that fight was not going any way the way that he thought it was and he looks he was so smiley and relaxed it was kind of funny you know he just sort of walked the dude down he had a big old smile and said he's like look at him smiling when was the last time he saw sp and he's so much bigger right yeah he's fighting like it's a joke like look at him he's so much bigger than this kid

34:46what's really funny is if they let this kid kick he would floyd up yeah if they let him kiss floyd may look so dominant i didn't even know on that part but then again that kid his kicks that kid would have kicked floyd's legs out from under him in seconds oh you went too far there see he he got up right there boom see he hit him with the left hook and he stumbled and then he hit him with the right hand behind it and i just think he's too little he's just a he's a very small guy and for him i mean and floyd's not a big guy this kid is tiny i mean i think he's fought as light as 121 pounds and i think sometimes he fights at like 126. yeah i mean i think he can see right there right there sometimes in a fight a lot of times in a fight the whole issue is you get hit with that and you're fighting and somebody taps you with a certain punch your brain you'll be

35:37surprised how fast it works you know and all the things that go through that mind right here boom yes that was yep and i think at that that moment right there he just knew going in you could feel just when somebody hit you on the arm or the shoulder you know how how much power they have and uh yeah i think he was trying to after that he knew that was going to be a long night so crazy they paid him 9 million for this that must be nice yeah i mean there was a lot of people i've seen going uh he deserves to give some of these prospects uh a chance now you know he should be fighting these guys instead of doing this these guys ain't boxers blah blah blah and my take on that also is the man went 40 49-15-0 he fought almost everybody in the sport even if you want to say that they were pastor prime some of them may have been a little bit he still went in there and dominated

36:31them and beat them yeah this guy in my opinion if he wanted to fight defensive backs from the nfl he has all the right in the world i don't think that he owes the sport anything i think actually it's the other way around the amount of money that he has brought to the sport the attention that he brought to it so if he wants to go around and do these science shows let him you know i mean what do you want to do fight prospects till he's 51 years old i couldn't agree more i couldn't agree more it's crazy the idea that they want to see him sacrificed yeah they want to see him get beat that's what they want they want to see him finally fight someone who's younger and faster and hungrier who's more active and what will happen is that he will lose and i think mayweather's smarter than that you know he wants to go out and keep that his status and and and the the record that he built up and that

37:17resume that he has and go out like that you know well they're talking about him fighting khabib nurmagomedov who's the ufc 155 pound champion but could be he's not really a boxer i just want to say it but boxing rules yeah oh he that would be a same thing yeah khabib is a take down ground type yeah exactly it would be the same kind of fight as the conor fight the only difference is i don't think khabib would get as tired as conor would yeah i don't i don't think uh he's he's definitely got better endurance i think one of the only few in in there right now that would be a good fight would be one of the diaz brothers as far as striking that would be interesting but they would he would box their face off i still think that he would win that but i'm just saying as far as you know stand up and letting the hands go i think those are one of the one of the two

38:01better ones in the mma yeah i mean that guy's he's got all the right in the world to just keep fighting freak shows just have fun man you know white weather the only thing is you know father time shows up you know he's getting to that age where you might get one of them guys and yeah so i mean if he's having fun do it but if you go and get beat by one of them guys that could change the whole outlook of a career well it's interesting how guys who are really good defensively they're not just really good longer because they have such good technique but also they've taken less damage during their career so that they're more durable as they get older as well like you definitely saw that with bernard like bernard up into the joe smith fight i mean joe smith was the first guy to really put it on him like that and knock him out of the ring and it was hard to see it was hard to see that they they

38:48had that ring set up too where he fell and landed on his head like jesus christ you know i don't know if there was so much to ring i just think it was an awkward way that he went out of them ropes in the way because he got hurt by that punch yeah so and the legs buckled and when the legs buckled like that they could put him in that awkward position for him to slide out you know his ass was headed out and then he got clipped again and went right through but i mean it just sucks that there's nothing to protect the fighters if if they fall out like that there's no padding there's no no tables no nothing nothing to break your fall no one there for you just gotta hope one of the ringside judges or or uh commentators are there to that's crazy and you got guys that are 80 years old yeah trying to push a 200 pound man back in the ring yeah they're not going to get clipped like that and wind up

39:34somebody falling on them um but bernard was able to keep his skill very late in life i mean deep into his 40s almost to 50 years old was still world class which is really crazy that is um you got a handful of guys out there that could do that and to be honest you know but he kept himself in good shape in between fights yeah and he did what he was supposed to do and some guys you know you get some guys out there uh good friend of mine my trainer robert garcia retired at 29. um a youngstown guy mancini retired young and came back a couple years later but it was only for one fight um who did mancini come back against greg halgen oh that's right right that's right i forgot about that fight yep and uh some of them you know some guys they go in and do it and it's fun and then it becomes a career in job and and financial security you know the way a lot of fighters look at it and then you

40:28get some guys like floyd manny pacquiao bernard hopkins who just loved the sport you know that much that that's they don't know anything else outside of it so what was it like fighting bernard who you know and i don't know if this is the state stage i want to fighting bernard was it was uh totally different than what i expected would you expect i expect him to be tricky and sneaky and then just uh very crafty and and obviously experienced you know i did jump up two weight classes to take that fight and um but at the same time that was not 80 kelly pavlick and this is true and this is documented um i have it in my phone and i was going to actually bring that out but that fight i sparred you know three times for that maybe four the fourth time was with our embrace and then i went into it and i never said anything because i'm the type person i don't want to have people

41:31think that i was making excuses i love bernard i think he's a one of the greatest of all time greatest middleweights but that was not that night you know i came down we had what's wrong what was wrong i had bronchitis i was sick i was running a temp actually in the locker room we had to go through with the commission um we almost took the inhaler for it then we found out through the commission that you cannot take that because it's steroid so we had to go to the nasal um or not nasal the pill oral pill we had in the locker room i don't know if you ever heard of a guy thomas houser he writes he used to write from new york times he does a lot of big boxing books he was in there and hauser don't uh he's not one side with anybody he's writes what he knows what he sees and that's the truth and um he was in there when the commission came in they were going through my prescription you know

42:23they were taking the temperature giving me the exam and that's what happened it was a lethargic fight with with uh of all people what was wrong with your arm you had you had yeah burst burst attack person bursitis in your elbow yeah and you know that came into an issue and we spar you know like i said it was a handful it might have been more than three or four but it wasn't a lot because usually in training camp you do it three days a week for about eight week camp for about six six and a half weeks and it was because of your elbow that you couldn't spar yeah you know because you didn't want to keep hitting it then i didn't like just the way i am i didn't like having a brace on it or nothing um so that was an issue and there was a lot of things that sometimes if you could go back and you wish you could do it over again but there was a lot of other um things

43:08going on why we didn't postpone the fight first of all it sold out and uh the youngstown people bought all the tickets um we had the issue with the paul williams fight you know that fell through so i ca i just came off fighting gary lockett who was really not a well-known name a household name so if i would have postponed that fight the backlash on that would have been bad really bad and you know sort of it was more the ego thing that i think and worried about what everybody was going to think taking nothing away at all from that's where i wanted to tap into taking nothing away from bernard hopkins unfortunately against a guy like bernard hopkins i had to have that happen to me is what sucks and he was a tremendous fighter i mean he did things in her a lot of times i seen him making moves and i knew what he was doing and i just couldn't pull the trigger on it

44:04um and he was fast and he was strong and then there was times that he just did some crafty things also that you know got to me and and his bodywork and that fight slowed me down a lot but it was just one of them fights where i could honestly say that that was not a 80 percent kelly powder and i could be honest to say if i was 100 i don't know if i would have won that fight and i'll be honest about it i'm not going to be the guy that's that comes here and says well if i was 100 i would have knocked him out no it's bernard hopkins you know um when you think about your legacy and you think about looking back at your your career those kind of fights where you had to take it when you were compromised um how do those factor in to do those with your head yeah not in a real bad way right but enough where you like if i was a hundred percent yeah you know i got invited to

44:52the international boxing hall of fame over the summer and it was cool as hell and to be there and you start seeing the inductees and everything and i start you start breaking down your career like am i am i able to qualify for this you know and is so and so going to get pissed off who didn't get in because i got in and i look at it and i break it down a couple ways i say 40 and 2 with 34 knockouts is a hell of a record you know i held the belts for over three years um i beat a handful of guys that were legit when i beat them and then i then i look at the fight though i fought bernard hopkins and i got my ass whipped in that fight and there's no other way of putting it you know it's the truth so how much did that damage you know uh people remembering that nobody looks at the fact of the two-way class jump and they're coming back down and defending against a very game antonio rubio

45:45and then of course the the martinez fight which a lot of people and it was documented and and on hbo with the commentators you know the weight issue in that fight but what was the weight issue in that fight oh just so how we had to get down that was my last fight at middleweight you know trying to cut the weight i was 29 at the time and another great fighter that happened it was tough with the weight um i really can't use that as an excuse though because i don't know but you know i know i was doing good in the ninth round i did hit a wall a lot of people tried to use the cut and i think even without the cut the same result would have happened though you know he would have boxed my ears off the last four rounds it was just one of them things that there's nothing you could do so when i when i sum up my career i look at those fights and i and i know personally

46:30that it could have been different but at the same time i'm very happy and content with the way my career went you know i was 42 my last four f i won my last four fights you know before i retire so i went out winning um and and i was done with the sport i truly was and so i i think right now i'm i'm kind of content and happy with my career of course i think anybody says could have been better and i wish it was better yeah maybe a little bit but i'm not going to ever beat myself up over it well it's just one of those things where you when when you look back and you think of all the great things that you did accomplish then you realize that you're retired at 30. yeah so much so much room there you know 30s so young you're in your athletic prime i think they say 32 for a professional fighter they consider most athletic primes at 32. it was but you know i look back on

47:24again you know the 42 fights that's a lot of fights yeah um plus i started when i was nine i had a little over 100 amateur fights there there was a lot with that i mean for a while there well before i retired i was throwing it around you know retiring i was one of them guys i just i liked it and i loved it but i also sometimes got tired of it right now i'm a very simple guy and and uh i don't i don't care about the glam or the fame or or any of that i truly don't you know like even now with my my podcast and what i'm doing with some of these other adventures is because i got bored and i want to have fun right you know what i mean and keep myself busy and um i've been fortunate to to have what i have to be able to do all this on my own you know and go out there and be around everybody but yeah so when i was fighting you know there's a lot of rumors around of the retirement this

48:19that and i think the final icing on the cake was we were supposed to fight andre ward and that's when andre ward ended up getting a shoulder surgery and that fight fell through and i've been out in california training or an or a trainer for almost a year which most fighters leave at the beginning of their career you know when they don't have a family when they're not making the money that's their opportunity to try and go make money not when you're 12 years into it you know and so i went out there and that kind of took a little bit from here as far as the sport even though i loved it and it was great training with uh robert garcia i learned so much that i didn't think i could learn at that state point in my career and when that andre ward fight fell through um i was i was done i mean i was i rolled over i never forget i rolled over told my wife i said i think i'm done

49:09and she goes what are you talking about and i said i think i'm retiring and she started crying of tears of joy because she wanted me to be done even before that she don't know the sport or right what what prime age is or not and uh i hung him up and and you know over the years as we talked earlier hearing her i would get the itch you know and that could have been just going to the gym and hitting or doing a round on the pads but i i just never wanted to keep doing it you know my health believe it or not is more important than than anything else well that is something that every fighter has to consider like when have they fought too much yeah how do you make that decision when your heart when you lose it in here in that heart a little bit it's a horrible hobby to have especially at that high of a level yeah you know because you're not fighting guys that are getting off work at three

50:00o'clock and you know you're fighting guys that are legit athletes and skilled professionals at fighting and um it's dangerous unfortunately we've seen and know when we were talking about this uh with me getting the itch earlier there's a lot of things i take in consideration like i'm i'm really into it and i'm really debating on it and i'm hitting the gym work in boxing did i see things like this a donna stevenson situation yeah you know and those are the things where i say i got to sit back and talk to explain to people what happened he just he got hit it was a good fight he's been fighting for years now one of the most uh feared fighters also in boxing and he fought the guy we were talking about earlier yeah uh i can't pronounce his name um i don't want to chop it up pull up that the russian gentleman's name we yeah there's a way to say it it's uh that better be but

50:56i see them all donna stevenson these russian cats have some crazy ass names man they do i know it's hard you know me being a guy involved in a sport and and talking about it all the time too how hard it is for me yeah to get it down there's so many badass russians these days okay it's g yeah it's g v o z d y k but it's vosdick you don't pronounce the g vozdick he's a beast two men he's a beast so in that fight again adonis davidson is a brutal puncher devastating knockout puncher he's been fighting all these years now also and this is the part that's definitely 41 right yeah 41 yes and that's another situation or you know factor factor where you might want to say hey i'm done right you know even before this happened unfortunately had to get to this point but uh he's in there and it's a fairly decent fight from what i was watching and next thing you know he he goes down

51:57fights over and he dropped fosnek at some point in the fight he did yeah and he uh next thing you know he ends up in a coma you know fighting for his life the sport you never know that's the scary thing about it you know you could get injured two weeks before the fight and sparring and have a little bleed that you would never know you know no signs of it and then the next thing you're you're in a coma yeah you did well i know that that really up roy jones jr when jerry mcclellan who was his arch rival you know this was the guy that they thought one day he was gonna fight when mcclellan was killing it at light heavyweight roy was 168 pound champion and then you know to see mcclellan now you know people who don't remember man mcclellan was a destroyer he was so god damn scary and so good and he hit so hard and he was the guy that you know he's a cronk fighter you

52:50know in the vein of tommy hearns and all those other great croc fighters and people looked at him like man one day that's going to be the fight him and roy jones jr was almost like it was inevitable yeah it was like canelo and triple g or something i know because everybody does the fantasy matchups and they ask me if i pavlick versus michelle and i'm going what are you guys trying to do to me i don't want that fight you know what i mean because he did hit that hard he was a brutal guy yeah and then to see him when he fought nigel ben same situation laps into that coma we don't know how adonis stevenson is going to come out of this but you know a lot of times when a guy does have a traumatic brain injury like that like they're never the same again yep that's what i'm saying it could have happened that could have been something two weeks earlier that was never

53:32detected you know or signs of it so it's scary it is um so you take that into consideration but you also have that itch yeah you know and again i i'm 36 um is it something that again it's going to be a process of sitting down and discussing you know what he's going to see would you say you're like 60 considering fighting again uh maybe a little more right now i know um wait do you ever like go back and watch like highlight reels and then you start shadow boxing and getting itchy and really start thinking about it and it's weird because i'm in my gym and there's people lifting weights and i'm in the back i got a couple bags back there and i'm you start hearing the bags popping and everybody they're not used to seeing it so everybody gets curious and they come back and you see them like peeking around the corner and watching me hit the bag and then i get a little

54:23embarrassed i'm like all right you know what i'm just gonna i'm gonna chill with it right now so yeah it's uh it's fun it is um it's a thought again and we'll see but a lot of that plays in my my mind because the one thing is it becomes very selfish too at a point i got two young kids at home you know that's going to be 13 and 10. um they're involved in sports and a lot of activities they love me being around for it and it don't take me half in a fight of usic right for something to happen right you know what i mean um but we'll we'll toss it around and we'll see how that goes yeah that's um that's a big consideration a lot of things to factor in on that well especially because you are busy now and so what made you decide to do a podcast actually i was excited when i heard you were doing that i was like all right yeah i was getting to the podcast world

55:16i am i'm looking you know i hear some of these guys uh commentating and i say i think i could do that yeah you could do that after listening and the podcast we're kind of throwing around um i had like i said i got a handful of investments going on and i i pick and choose on what i want to do and the podcast started off uh hey let's have fun let's throw this podcast on we'll get some cheap equipment we know um got a lot of followers on social media so we'll do like the social media live and then we'll also hook it to the youtube and we're doing it and it started off for a little while there um but no advertisement it was kind of lonely you know you know yeah just just you know you know if you feel like i'm talking to a mic and nobody's there right um and then it started taking it it's doing fairly well right now how many downloads you get man right now well the social media is

56:05the biggest we end up hitting it reaches out after the first episode you got 2 000 uh people reached and maybe like 400 views and then as the days go on and the shares go on you start seeing it reaches out to over like 20 some thousand people and then you see you know like uh 8 000 views so and that's on social media youtube is the one i'm working for you know really trying to push and right now sometimes we get up 113 views on there and and sometimes i don't even want to mention how many views are on it uh so again it's a process with that also i know that i'm starting to learn that um it's about consistency that's the most important thing but i get out to these fights and people know it you know who i who don't comment on the show because we do it where it's it's live the format of it is to have everybody involved because they like that they get asked questions and we're pretty much

56:57faces on the phone reading the questions and answering it and i think they like that it actually is kind of funny because we'll get some great guests on there we had tj dillashaw we had mikey garcia terence crawford on i think you could have i think you could bring back joe lewis and put them on there and people don't care about that they want their their questions answered you know through the social media or through youtube and they kind of don't interact with the the guests that you have on so it's weird um i think the format i like the format of it but at the same time i wish people would be more involved with the guests that we have on but for the most part it's fun it's different that kind of format is well boxing fans in particular well all i should say just combat sports fans in particular they love to comment on things love to get in on it i mean uh whenever there's

57:45a big fight i mean the social media just lights up both with boxing and with mma they love the and the the ability to go back and forth with a guy like you and get your questions answered and stuff like that it's got to be huge yep and we tap and we've had matt brown on so we tap into the ufc i personally don't want to because i don't want to make nobody mad i don't know enough i watch it and i'm not going to make anybody mad i'm saying that some of the fans you know i watch it i enjoy it but my now the co-host james dominguez he's really big into that you know and he was the one that actually introduced me to matt brown and um so he knows so on that show that's where we worked you know hand in hand together like he's able to do more of the questions and i think it's fun when boxers don't know about mma and they ask wonky questions yeah that's how i feel with you know vice

58:31versa i'm sure man i'm sure like when you when a big fight goes down and um you uh do you watch it and stream live we do uh well we tried we actually tried on that that's a great idea for someone like you that we do a thing called the fight companion we do it all the time where there's a ufc fight we'll put it up on that screen we'll have a bunch of guys in here and we'll watch the fights and talk while the fights are going on and people play it alongside the commentary so it's like they're watching the fights with us yeah that's an idea thank you it's a great idea yeah it absolutely is and that's the whole thing we're just looking for a different plus if you if you go into the comments and start you know having people ask questions like who do you think won that round then you go this is why you know i think triple g won the round this is why canelo lost the round or this is why you

59:21could make an argument that canelo won it that that kind of stuff for that kind of interaction stuff for a dozen the fans love that they love it yep yeah they love that and that's that's what we're you know looking at different ideas too because you never stop learning you can stop you know expanding and doing things like that so it's good you know we get places we get to these big fights and and uh people notice the show you know hey i love your show even if they don't they're saying that to me you know um yeah it was uh if they know they said yeah it's very uh that's keen insight right yeah you know and it was cool actually what was that the first triple g canelo fight you know when i retired i again stayed away from boxing i went to that uh i went there and i was all about promoting my podcast and uh it was kind of cool i walked in there and everybody went crazy in the media room

60:12and i thought i was fighting again after after five years of being retired i thought i was fighting i mean they were just asking and i was trying to squeeze stuff in and tell them what i was doing and then it was cool also because bernard hopkins was there you know and i was just i was already a year into the power lift and i was still about 2 30 and he came up and gave me a big hug and you know it was awesome to be able to after a fight and being able to go in there with him to see how nice he was and how humble he was after that you know he could have been cocky right right he could have walked past me and i said hi or recognized me at all and he was just really uh brought me in so that's cool yeah what did he say to you after the fight did you tell you need to box like a black guy i think he did you know after that fight he could have told me everything he

61:00wanted in the road he could sat down for an hour with me and i wouldn't remember what he said um i was you know everybody's seen the fight so yeah i needed not to say much more on that but uh yeah yeah a little bit of it because my trainer was there it was you know keep your head up you're a hell of a fighter you know and you know i'm experienced and go back go back to the drawing board don't get too down on this and come back strong he goes you're a champ and that was what he's yeah i remember something where he said that you needed to learn how to a black yeah i didn't hear that i truly didn't you know and maybe he might have said that an interview after with somebody and that's what people thought right i know he didn't say it in the fight right yeah yeah that was uh that was a uh it was you know one of his best performances i mean he had so many great

61:44performances late in his career the tito trinidad fight in particular because nobody nobody thought he was going to win that fight that was he was a big underdog in that fight trinidad was the up-and-coming rising puerto rican superstar i was everybody up and bernard put on a show i thought you know i actually had hopkins in that fight though because he was just bigger you know the big guy middleweight uh trinidad is moving up and uh you know there was a lot of good middleweights i didn't think trinidad was going to be i think trinidad was a amazing fighter but i think his great days were at uh 147. yeah i agree yeah i was um i mean he was a big puncher though i mean he was a big puncher even up into light heavyweight i mean he'd been into middleweight middleweight but he was his style was almost tailor made for bernard bernard was so so clever and such a good counter fighter and so good

62:32defensively he didn't really open up he didn't leave many openings that goes back to the footwork that we were talking about he you noticed when he fought that fight even when he fought me but trinidad and other guys when they go to throw a punch you take that one step in and kind of suffocate the punch especially if it was a straight right hand or then he would take that step and he would over throw that overhand right and catch you with it so he was really good at just putting that foot not moving around much putting in the right spot to hit you and counter you um and he did that trinidad was probably one of the best technically sound fighters ever if you actually watch him you know the way through his punches he never made mistakes on that part of it but i think he needed a little bit more change it up a little different with bernard hopkins in order

63:16to have even made that fight kind of close one of the most ridiculous trinidad fights ever remember when you fought ricardo mayorga in mayorga let him punch him in the face yeah he just put his hands down go go ahead and trinidad tee'd off yeah i think he hit him with two left hooks on the chin margaret was crazy he was so crazy that was a crazy dude who smoked cigarettes in between rounds and i don't even know if i could believe that i don't know if that was a show and he did that when the cameras were on because he was able to go a handful of rounds without getting tired yeah now i know if you smoke a cigarette man that's gonna take the wind out of you yeah but you know i know fighters that smoke yeah yeah joe schilling who's a world-class kickboxer top of the food chain world champion kickboxer smoke cigarettes well crazy yeah i chewed most microwaves that's different

64:01though right it is you know nicotine restricts the oxygen and the blood and it's not good for uh boxers or or anybody lifting weights nicotine does like regular like chewing tobacco restaurants oh yeah it restricts the oxygen in the blood i didn't know that yeah but it's but can you pull it up just make sure it's a stimulant though you know it's actually like for your brain people say the a lot of folks i actually bought some i never tried it but i bought some nicotine gum to try to see if i would write on it like if it would help me writing like because it apparently works as a nootropic as a cognitive enhancer nicotine is actually an effective cognitive enhancer i didn't know that maybe how much you take of it the quantity yeah i don't know i mean i don't i didn't know that it uh it affects your because it's a stimulant i didn't know that it uh restricts the oxygen your

64:47blood that's pretty yeah from what i from what i heard and chew actually more so than cigarettes because of the uh amount of nicotine and how it hits it gets into the stream faster but to me it was never i didn't chew the day of the fight right and i believe after so many hours six to eight or ten hours um it's out so but either or it didn't affect me that stuff so nasty because i was able to run you know three miles in 19 minutes 19 some minutes and five miles and 30 minutes and and uh i was and i was chewing and so it never really affected me um well maybe it did but just you were in such good shape barely no smoking on your other hand lungs filling them with that it is horrible and uh but after i retired and the itch wasn't there for like a year i i wanted to give the gums a break and i decided well you know what i'll smoke and i quit smoking shortly you

65:38started smoking cigarettes after you retired yeah jesus christ oh i don't want to start someone else the starts at 30. i was switching out because it was nicotine here it is smoke tobacco smokeless tobacco and health risks the amount of nicotine in the bloodstream after using smokeless tobacco may be higher than that of a cigarette smoker okay what does it say about oxygen though that's where it was going the this puts it all together the nicotine basically is taking the place of the oxygen i think is what the other there's another it's a less scientific paper but nicotine stays in the bloodstream longer with smokes tobacco than cigarettes oral tobacco 28 calories it causes heart disease yeah okay it's not a safe alternative folks that's what it's saying all right yeah we're literally really bad for you but you started smoking cigarettes yeah was this not because you were smoking when

66:35you drinking kind of guy is that what it was no it was because i wanted i like the nicotine oh and i chewed you know and uh i wanted to give the gums a break the lips would break and i smoke so i waited and have to chew and uh doing the lifting and powerlifting i went over and i think i got seven squats and i couldn't breathe jesus and i said you know what this is a shame how long have you been smoking for i was only eight months or several months that's long enough on it you know and uh yeah i said you know what because i had no plans coming back to the ring i didn't so i was done and uh yeah i got to seven seven reps into the squat and i was like you know this is sad i was a former you know world-class athlete so i i was done right after that day but the cigarette is back well good for you yeah i'm sad you started it up i'm glad you figured out to let it go yes you that's a

67:30that's a weird choice though at 30. yeah you know so cause you're talking about this nicotine you know that's what a lot of people do when they try to quit uh the chewing they they go over to the smoke and don't they just go to the gum usually you could do that too but some people just like it um yeah i don't know well it does it does juice you up tony hinchcliffe smokes cigarettes he doesn't anymore but he used to and a couple of times i took a cigarette from him and smoked it before i went on stage and he's like dude you're going to get he was worried about me you're going to get her i'm like i'm not going to get hooked yeah i'm just going to smoke this one cigarette i'm not going to go buy a pack but people are so scared of it yeah well i see why though yeah you know especially again you know as i'm mentioning i'm over here i used to be able to do

68:13all that and then i do seven reps on a squat and i'm having a hard time breathing and uh i i racked it now granted squats are hard though i mean you're gonna yeah if you depending on the weight and how many reps you're doing it's a different type of exercise but you know i was done after that so you had a drinking thing for a while too huh yeah that's that's one that uh that gets a lot of fighters yeah it does um but it's one that you know on that that that it takes me off and it don't it ticks you off yeah how so a lot of it was ran through the hometown you know and the troubles that i that i got in with it um tmz stuff like that you know the incidents that happened were petty small and if it was it wasn't in youngstown it would have never made news stuff that kind of happens like what kind of no bb guns yeah i shot a kid we were playing around i was taking

69:19care of them and this is the truth of the story taking care of them i was putting a a big lake in my backyard and uh i got the country boy i mean i went out and rented two excavators and some bobcats and started putting a the pond in this uh this guy i was helping out he knows how to run the excavators so i he needed work he had no money i was taking care of him and his kids over at the house he's he's working so long story short after about five days i come home and he's in the pond or lake just in his underwear playing around i grabbed the bb gun i'm joking around with him you know because we were shooting targets for a couple days in between working i shoot them in the uh on the arm 42 years old they're 41 years old at the time too so i wasn't a kid he gets out he's like ah you shot me and and uh he's crying about it and everything else and next thing you know

70:16he he's cool though he gets out he's it's on facebook and he's giggling laughing about it and he stays at my house that night his kids come over i'm feeding them we're having cookouts the next day and little things that i don't know that i'm glad that i'm not involved in no more or i don't put myself in that situation so he stays for two days after that at my house and uh his uncle comes there who worked for the sheriff the local sheriff's department and goes hey is uh so-and-so here and i said yeah he was i haven't seen him though and he goes okay hey listen he goes kelly i'm coming here to tell you so that way the news the media everything else don't come he has a warrant out for his arrest and tell him you know if he comes back call us so he leaves i go walking through the house and he comes brian comes down the steps and i was like dude you gotta get the

71:12hell out of here i was like i didn't know anything of this you having a warrant blah blah blah he goes over and passes out on my couch i call his uncle hey you want him he's here so he finds out he ends up running out of the house and and they catch him you know that night or whatever they they take him in he does two months in the county jail gets out takes his uniform off walks over to the sheriff's depart the sheriff's department impresses charges on you yes for shooting with a bb gun yes and a buddy of mine who was there when it happened was videoing it his girlfriend's laughing in the background you know when it happened that was it was just a video of it happening he sold it to tmz and next thing you know i end up getting served or whatnot my attorney calls me also and says hey go down turn yourself in you know it's a federal assault charge jesus yeah because of federal assault

72:14yes yeah and uh that was it and again it was all over money it was a drawn out case um supposed to have been beat and it turned to that over a bb gun with a guy and he said it was an assault so i always be trying to get from you he got nine grand and it was supposed to when he filed the civil suit a couple months into this the criminal charges were supposed to be dropped at that point because prosecutor and everybody knew that it was all about money so they were going to drop the criminal charge they never did and uh it goes back in youngstown you know i was out in the public eye and some of the people they had it out they they have for people to understand how big star you are in youngstown i mean i remember at the time i remember reading stories seeing news clips i mean youngstown's not a big place and other than ray boom boom mancini's not a whole lot of like

73:09really famous people especially fighters that come out of youngstown but you were a giant celebrity in that town yeah and that was kind of my my bat on that that's where i take the the fault well it's probably hard for you to recognize you're not even 30 years old yeah all this is going on yeah and it's true and i'm not looking for that as an excuse you know when i say it but it is true i looked i looked at myself as everybody else right i think that was the issue you hadn't recognized yet that you're in some weird place where you have to watch what you're doing i felt like if i go to the bar and somebody goes boy kelly powek's been here three days he's a lush my argument was i got every right to be here just like you do matter of fact i have more of a right you know i'm retired i've got my money put away you're probably drinking your you know weekly pay away that was my

73:58mind um thought process thought process of that and it was probably wasn't right you know because it comes down to is you are a big fish in a little pond and it's a small city and i i think that by being out there i brought a lot on myself because of that it is what it is unfortunately as an athlete you you can't do that and um so that happened over a period of time and the word got around in a lot of anger you know you had some jealous i'm angry some who just didn't like me well also just so much fun for them to gossip yeah exactly because what else is really not beating up youngstown i love it it may be who i am but if you really look up youngstown there's not there ain't a lot to talk about besides the fact that we do put out the most nfl players per capita really oh absolutely young sound does why is that you think i don't know it's averages there's some some badass dudes

74:54from from youngstown and it is i i don't know why i mean even the boxing part of it if you truly break down five world champs from such a small city in 36 years as it came out who are the other world champs besides ray boomer arroyo actually held the title in the same weight class around the same exact time that mancini did you had jeff lampkin greg richardson and then you had a handful of other guys like roland cummings and fighters out there that were making noise out of youngstown a guy ken signarani who fought chavez and camacho out of youngstown but um being it being being there like that it brought a lot of attention and people who wanted wanted you know and there was a lot of angry people was it weird growing up there and then becoming a famous guy there yeah it is because again you know you don't people tell you hey would you get to that level when you win

75:50the world title shit's gonna change man and you're going yeah yeah yeah okay you think you know right like you're going yeah i got what you're saying and then it happens and you win it and it's so true when they say overnight like you're not you no more you know like you're you can't be yourself no more it's uh everything changes and it comes down to the person even though if you don't want to change and you like living your life the way you did two days ago unfortunately you can't you know and it's it's uh hard and it's something that you got to learn how to deal with yeah and that that wasn't my choice though you know what i mean by that my choice wasn't to go out and act like a jackaloon my choice was kind of just be me though right and uh you just did what you wanted to do i did and then it just became a big issue because you were a famous guy yes and the another issue on top of that

76:46came to was where i could actually take the blame for this and and i honestly can a lot of it came down to and everybody's different al so i'm not i'm speaking for myself i i trained my ass off when i trained you know i was a six seven hours a day type guy and that's what got me to throw as many punches as i did around you know and i was in great shape for every fight i sacrificed a lot of things i gave up a lot you know even starting from high school you know being in the amateurs and just turning pro right out of high school i missed a lot of things my mentality was when you know i had time i was gonna i was gonna live i was gonna live like my friends who were 19 20 21 24 and that was the process of it um i do believe though at a point especially after i retired that i it got a little a little out of hand absolutely you know and i'm not going to be the person to sit there and

77:44say it didn't you know right it did i'm not naive enough to say that well you know better than anybody but the rumors were always that you were drinking a lot but and that was affecting your career it may have to some point i don't think it did people say use the fact that hopkins beat me and that was this that was the reason and that's why i retired so young and it wasn't it truly wasn't um maybe some of the stuff i was doing especially as i got older in between fights to drinking i think that that could have that may have hurt a little bit i don't think it was enough to make any significant changes in my career to be honest with you um but you know who knows with that if i didn't we'll never know um again but i lived up and do i got anything to regret about it no do you still live in youngstown yeah on the outside in the suburbs you know is it i mean

78:36it's got to be strange to have grown up there been a child there and then become an internationally famous world champion boxer and celebrity and still stay there yeah it's the world changes and you're still kelly pavlick and i think after i retired that's where some of the mistakes i've come to where i should have gotten out maybe come out here to california or go to it come on out kelly yeah right i don't yeah we're working on it plenty of room yeah i just had that last night with with my uh manager uh mark he was so what are they talking about you doing out here can you say he's throwing around ideas also again we were talking about what we have talked about earlier with the fight coming back uh we talked about the dancing with the stars things that's some ideas he's looking into also sponsorships um you know again mark is um got a lot of connects he's in that industry boxing's in an

79:33interesting place right now and i'm really i was really bummed out that uh hbo canceled their boxing series i mean after how many years 40 43 years something crazy like that i mean they put on some of the all-time great classic fights and you know i think jim lampley one of the best commentators of all time i loved hearing roy jones jr do it and andre ward and you know i just max kellerman was amazing i just can't believe that it's over i mean i don't know i guess it wasn't profitable for them or they just decided to get out of the business i really don't understand it i don't believe that it's going to be gone for long from hbo yeah for some reason i think you noticed uh lampley still has the fight game on there and they're doing that um i heard rumors of maybe rory jones taking it over or buying it out or somebody buying yeah um the big issue i think where that what

80:28happens into the hbo and showtime is doing very well right now yeah and i don't know if yeah and i'm not sure if they'll ever fall into the situation that hbo did but you have these apps coming out now espn plus uh the zone dazn and again like what they just had that signing with canelo how big that was the richest athlete you know the biggest cause like 650 million dollars or something oh i thought it was 3.65 and that was like there was something canelo's how much money or something i think it was 365 million but there's also per you know incentives and everything else with that so 365 yeah and there's a six in there that's a lot of money yes it is for i think 11 fights or whatever it was crazy and um so again that that's where these people are coming to this espn plus they get they can watch these fights now yeah on these for 7.99 9.99 uh the zone has the ufc or mma fight or

81:25i think it's bellator fights whatever on there it is nice that espn's putting on a lot of fights now exactly and they also now have a deal with the ufc so uh into 2019 now the first ufc event is going to be january 19th which is tj dillashaw versus henry cejudo for the flyweight title and they're they're really putting on some great fights on espn it's just exciting just to see mma being recognized by espn but it's exciting to see espn put like lomachenko fights on exactly because espn used to be kind of more so the prospects yeah you know the friday night fights were the up and coming guys and they were they were putting out on that was great for for the prospects i think they need to actually keep doing that maybe on a different night but now they're putting the lomachenkos and they're putting the world-class fighters on is terence crawford's last fight on espn i believe

82:09it was you know that's awesome that's awesome yeah so that and that app that espn plus like i'm saying so there's more accessibility to that and people would rather pay that than order to 69 or 89 or 100 pay-per-view fund right seven bucks a month is nice it is yeah absolutely i mean with the ufc the ufc has uh ufc fight pass and you know they have events just constantly yeah same sort of deal and that's great for that it is because the easier route you know outlet for it yeah and you can watch on your phone on a train exactly it's like the the world's changing and now also i love the fact you could stream it from your phone right to your television if you've got a smart tv you can watch it exactly yeah you know i was even thinking about that at my gym uh because i i know how it is with business and ordering pay-per-view fights there was actually a funny story about

82:58that in youngstown with that too um where everybody thought it was my fault but uh yeah you could get that i could have 40 people there on a big fight night ufc fight night or or a boxing fight night and i could just put that phone right up to the smart tv and we could watch it on there instead of paying don't say this don't say this right now they're going to come get you oh yeah you're not going to do that this is all hypothetical this will never happen you're not going to do that right i thought it was legal okay that might be legal yeah well the ufc's gone after people in the past for illegally streaming things and then showing them on television oh well i thought if you had the app i don't know i don't know how to be honest i think it's when you're showing it on in a business because i know what i was talking about earlier with the youngstown thing that

83:43happened it was kind of funny was um they were getting the fights they had pay-per-view fights and they were some of the businesses were illegally getting it and they all got fined you know they were fines going around and people were actually coming to me like i had something to do with it they were like i can't believe you could do that you should have to pay us like three thousand dollars for the fine that we got well yeah and i'm going you yes i i started giggling i'm going last thing on my mind was was i was worried about was who who was ordering fights in youngstown yeah when i'm here in you know atlantic city or vegas right now fighting uh getting ready trying to make weight and doing the interviews in the press uh conference and everything else what kind of says that you should have yeah they kind of came out and one actually my brother was doing uh

84:30going to get um ads for the program from places and they're like i'm not giving i'm not putting that and he cost me three thousand dollars you know no you cost you yeah you pirate i i hate my ds and i'm sure and i'm not just using that with the youngstown that would probably would have happened anywhere in a small small area so well you know illegal streaming if they don't do something about it man uh it would run rampant i just don't know what the thing to do that's correct is you know i've seen some outrageous finds i don't know you know and as you as we just have what happened earlier we don't know what's what's legal and what's not either anymore with all the different uh internet stuff and and apps that you have with the smart tvs with tvs yeah yeah i mean or you know can you stream it on your phone and have a bunch of people look over your shoulder yeah how

85:18does that work or if you have a smart tv yeah like if you have it on your phone and then like 20 of your friends come over and they're behind you yeah and you say hey man everybody give me a dollar yeah you get in trouble for that how does that work or that could be a great idea it's not not the worst idea but yeah how does that work because with apple tv anything you're watching you can watch a youtube video and you just stream it to that tv with a you know a quick swipe and a press bam yeah yeah i think the move for them is to make it easily accessible like wwe was the first one to figure that out right they they figured out how to they you get like a monthly subscription and you get to watch all the events and then the ufc did that with fight pass and espn plus doing this and wwe knows how to make the money yeah we could all see for sure um you know i think what's also great is

86:11somebody's inside station you know local stations and inside putting these fights on also like they used to do back in the day you know the abc fights yeah and uh how was the scene yeah all that you know and doing that again you know why why wouldn't you it's great for the sport and you know that's how you get people involved back in it you know it's almost like almost every other generation or or every other decade there's that group of fighters that come out you know like ali frazier guys like that then you had like the tyson holyfield reddick bow but also at that time it was easy and it was accessible to to watch all the time yeah now you know it's not and even the apps which is i think is great you get a lot of guys in their 40s and 50s who don't want to have to watch an app on your tv so i think if they start bringing back just a little more variety of uh shows or something

87:06well it seems like uh especially with boxing right now the talent level is extremely high i mean it is with mma as well but i mean with boxing it seems to be on an upswing and it also seems like people are really interested in some of these big rivalries like triple g and uh canelo that was two amazing fights i thought the first one was a robbery i thought that uh triple g won the first one but they don't fight again really yeah why's that because uh when you get a guy that hits as hard as triple g does and you get a guy that's as good as canelo you know and they're in there even though they're not getting dropped and they're not getting knocked out some type of fights take a lot out of you they really do and they shirt a lot in those two fights and we don't know even right now if the next fight or the fight after that canelo starts showing some of the effects from

87:55those first two fights you think so yeah you get a guy that hits two guys that hit that hard and they're in their fighting like that eventually it does drain you a little bit and that will catch up i think a third fight will shorten the career of canelo i'm not going to say triple g because triple g is my age now and i i have a feeling that his might be getting short here pretty soon anyways just due to age but canelo i mean that that's those are brutal fights they were brutal fights did you think that um some people thought that triple g won the second fight as well i thought it was much closer fight than the first fight but did you think that canelo or triple g i think canelo showed some improvement but it's also possible that triple g might have slowed down a little bit i think so um you know the first fight i had at 9-3 for triple g that's how i say that sounds about right

88:42yeah i gave the first three rounds to canelo and then i had it every round after for triple g this fight i thought uh canelo won close fight and if you gave it to triple g i wouldn't have screened robert right i think teddy was saying that he thought the triple g won but um i felt like well it's a pretty close fight pretty close fight but certainly canelo showed much improvement he did and he fought a better fight the first half of the fight i gave canelo a lot of rounds because i thought he controlled the fight with the body shots everybody thought triple g was controlling it with the jab but the reason why triple g wasn't using his size and strength was because it was using his jab was because of the body shots that canelo was landing i mean they were brutal and uh i just thought canelo dictated the pace of those first couple rounds um i thought he won enough of the early

89:30rounds and obviously triple g won the late the second most of the second half of the fight but i thought it was a little too late you know and i had canelo up by a round or two yeah um it's it's just one those are those are two fighters that really sort of epitomize uh what people like to see when they like to see like these classic rivalries right like a guy like triple g who's just forward pressure constant throwing bombs knockout puncher a guy like canelo who's just one of those classic mexican fighters that has incredible heart wants to fight the best of the best like really like really takes it into the first fight yeah yeah stay on the ropes with triple g and let him let him use that power to beat your organs then yeah one of those types you know i a center i'm going i'm not one to talk i i kind of like getting in and getting involved myself with guys especially like miranda who

90:25i personally believe hit harder than uh triple g really but yeah and i was a guider but that was my strategy as were canelo that was i really wasn't a great strategy you know i didn't lay on the ropes and let miranda do you think he just didn't know what to expect until he was in there with triple g it could have been because everything changed like i think mike tyson said it you know everybody's got a game plan until they get hit uh he might have got touched like i said even with the uh tension in that mayweather fight and the whole brain might have just started going a thousand miles an hour trying to figure out okay like this ain't gonna probably work tonight with this guy because he's a lot stronger than i expected and he was just trying to maybe tire him out the only issue is now you're when you're on the ropes like that and you're getting hit by a guy that hits that hard in the

91:10delts in the elbow in the forearms and and to the body and then you're you're tightening up and you're tensing up really hard you're cutting the oxygen off to the blood it tires you out quicker and it wears you down you know more than what he was doing in the middle of the ring by a pump shot and and counter punching and he could have dictated how fast he wanted you know how much you wanted to punch how hard he wanted to punch yeah we certainly made some big improvements in that second fight yeah do you um you you really don't want to see them fight a third time i i truly don't i mean if it happens i'm going to watch it you know but they're gonna fight right i mean canelo's obviously gonna fight some people and triple g is obviously gonna continue fighting you know again i don't know how long triple g is gonna fight because as you mentioned and i agree with you um i

91:54think he's starting to his age is showing up a little bit with him well i mean he he got avoided by a lot of people and we you know when he had a pay-per-view a couple years back that only got 150 000 buys and i remember thinking that is a damn shame it is it's a damn shame that people don't realize that this is absolutely one of the best fighters ever i was surprised by that too because i think he's a lot more popular than what those numbers show i didn't get it i don't understand i mean i don't maybe it's because they didn't think the fight was competitive maybe i mean maybe i don't know what it was but it just it seemed like i i just think personally myself there's a lot of fights out there for canelo he just went up to uh 168. yeah i'm not a big fan of that you know do you think he's too small for cigarettes i do especially if you get him with the

92:43right fighter i truly do believe that you know everybody how tall is easy five ten yeah five nine five ten um but you know with boxing or like football when you see the height you always gotta take an inch and a half off too so how do they lie yeah i mean listed six three i'm right under six two by like that much so it's kind of like the football program in high school right right but um canelo i think that there's guys out there staying at 68 is kind of dangerous i think he's right now talented enough to keep good fights out there yeah but it's a little dangerous in my opinion do you think that 68 could cause problems for him you got even the guys like zerto benavidez those are dangerous fights just them two guys right there i would have to take not so much overall skill wise just size and and being at that weight and you know um there you got guys coming down like bevol

93:33from 175 to 168. i think that his better days are going to be at 160. you know do you think he does he have a hard time making 60 or do you just have an opportunity to fight 68 any time i think it's the trophies yeah you know and i don't blame him for that either he had the right fight to go up to 168 so get another weight division under his belt yeah he was tuning that dude up and i think that would be what three no he's a three weight class champ yeah and uh so that looks good on paper when you retire yeah well it does i would have done it if i could have you know if there if there was the right fights out there but when he fought mayweather mayweather made him cut down to what 52 was it something like that i think they were out of catch weight around that yeah um that fight was to me well it was a good learning experience for him to be in there with a guy who's as slick as

94:21floyd is but also a good learning experience you're not supposed to suck that much weight out of your body just he didn't have the fire you know even though you have uh 24 hours or however long it is to try to rehydrate that's never enough time to recoup yeah it's not so your your thing is you're just hoping your opponents going through the same thing that you are you know that's what it comes down to what i do like about boxing that is missing in mma is more weight classes i really think that and that's one of the things that people have a problem with in boxing they think there's too many weight classes i don't agree with that i think if anything there's too many world champions i think it's ridiculous that in any organization that one guy could be a wbc world champion the other guy could be a wa there's an ibf there's a wbo i mean like that's crazy it's crazy to have that

95:07many world champions it should be a world champion but how do you decide what organization is the real sanctioning body well you just need one sanctioning body yeah i don't know how you would do that either because it's all money you know they're all so corrupt yeah it's all money and it's hard to do that i i see your point on that a little bit and then i also look at like you got so many guys that are so good yeah and boxing is a short window so like how long can you stay undefeated until you finally get that chance to fight the top guy the top dog and anything can happen in boxing too you know uh i kind of like maybe knocking down a three but i think when you have the different weight classes now you got four people just say one person has each belt you got four world champs now you're looking at these four guys and you can start taking these price

95:57prospects and start saying this would be an interesting fight with this guy and this guy and then i i do believe that they should make make happen one undisputed champ yeah i believe so too i think that should happen in every weight class yep they should have a fight off or a box off and the four champions or you know maybe that way keep the prospects in line and have the four champions fight off do you know who's the undisputed champion and then your prospects get your shot you know it just seems weird to have more than one world champion you're either the world champ it's like how many guys won the super bowl this year how many teams yeah one one it should be one yeah you can't have multiple world champ like when anthony joshua was walking around as a heavyweight champion but also deontay wilder is walking around as a heavyweight champion like what what is this is

96:44are you the heavyweight champion or are you the champion of an organization that falls into like what kind of again we were talking about earlier with the jermaine taylor thing when he vacated the belts okay yeah in my mind you won the unified time unified or universal or recognizable the ring middleweight title because where does the lineal begin when does it not and i had to bring title right so usually in most cases the ring title is undisputed or or millennial uh champ just so in other words the champ of that weight class right you know and something for the most part you know who is the champion of a weight class um well ring magazine's title is almost as valuable as anybody else it is that's one and that's the one that i really showcase when i show people my nice my uh case you know what's so classic too with like this the stripes and the i think rocky really did a lot for that

97:30belt too yeah i mean yeah that's true yeah yeah yeah well it's a classy looking belt you know and everybody else got the big ones with the leather and the strap like the ring magazine's a nice one yep i wanted the belts you know i didn't want to pay to sanction the fees for all four of the belts but i wanted to i still wanted the ibf in the wba and um be able to put in the trophy case but unfortunately a lot of the fights fell through when you were coming up um when you were a kid and you were watching boxing were you a hagler fan i was a haggler fan but you know that's another one that's actually weird with me even having guys like mancini and aurora from youngstown and guys like that never really had this one person that i was like or a poster in my bedroom you know like the de delivery or something you never had one guy that like you emulated or you were really little i emulated

98:19everybody and i think that's what helped me get as far as i did in my career i mean even when i was 16 i could watch a nine-year-old's barn and see him do something cool and hit a guy and i'm like damn you know i'm gonna try that that actually might work i i followed it and i was just a big fan of the sport overall of course i had guys i like like gotti because of his style coming up and de la hoya sugar ray leonard in my opinion is probably one of the best fighters pound for pound of all time oh yeah um and it's arguable i mean if somebody says mayweather i'm not gonna he's one of the best for sure yeah i'm not gonna say you're stupid for having a number one it's a great debate um but yeah so i followed it more as a fan you know and i watched and i took from this person i took from that person we had as i mentioned we had some prospects in the uh amateurs coming up

99:04that train in the same gym and that would kind of copy their style you know coming up so i was always trying to keep learning like i have been doing and working out now um i find different things that work you know what don't work and uh that's what i did as far as boxing i just watched guys a hair and there i would copy for like two days de la hoya style you know he'd be here with the hands up and picking them off with their hands i go and sparring i didn't try it in the fight i did it in sparring and i would copy his style a little bit to see how it works or how i could add it to my arsenal so yeah i was just asking about hager because he's sort of the quintessential middleweight champion you know there's like a few guys that you look back in the day and you look at you know who were just iconic middleweight champions and your guys in your late 40s and 50s

99:49okay they'll argue with you that he was the best middleweight of all time he certainly was one of them yeah and you'll have you'll have your guys that you know have hopkins um so that's one of that's what i'm saying like even the heavyweights you got your olders oh joe or uh muhammad ali was the best then you have your guys in the early 40s tell you that to mike tyson so it's kind of like whoever grew up on that yeah me personally you got to get past that because again that becomes biased and everybody's going to kind of go with what they grew up with um but there was a lot of greats sure well people sleep on lennox lewis you know when you talk about the greats all-time great heavyweight boxers like how the do you not include lennox lewis discussion the size the power yeah how do you not put evander holyfield you do you know guys that beat the tyson the

100:34crazy uh riddick bow yeah i mean it was way smaller than richard i was like heavyweights crazy yeah crazy era yeah it was the 90s right those are the ones when you say heavyweight division those were the fighters you know but it's how long ago was that now quite a long time yeah 30-something years and uh so it don't come around enough well what i'm hoping is more emerging talent in the heavyweight division will sort of take a little bit of this spotlight that you're seeing now that's going on fury and wilder and joshua and i'd like to send you know and a little bit of ortiz i'd like to see more guys get in the mix there and and have it be like it used to be back then where there are a bunch of like really exciting contenders yeah you look forward to these big fights because right now there's like four guys five six guys at most that are gonna fight each other exactly and you know

101:23hopefully what it does is it gets these other bigger bigger guys these athletic athletes and and uh skilled athletes and hopefully it brings them into the boxing again did i remember did i remember this is david tula making a comeback i hope not seriously how old is he he got to be mid-40s dude he was 46. maybe he's not did i make that up that he's making a comeback i'm looking he was a mom you know unfortunately in the heavyweight division he probably could get away with that at 46. he might be able to he was a goddamn monster yeah well he was short he was he was a hard guy to fight he was one of them guys low to the ground thick big legs uh no neck brutal power yeah big left hook yeah yeah he's one of the guys you didn't want to fight even if you were at lennox lewis's height remember when he knocked out john ruiz yeah like it was brutal yeah no he was an animal

102:21man and he could take a shot too remember when he fought uh ika bayabuchi he was the only guy to go the distance with the baabuchi that was another big he was a scary yeah and did what did he he went to jail for like sexual assault or something crazy like that he was in jail for a long time we were just talking about another guy that kind of reminded me of them samuel peters another yeah he was my height actually i trained with him a little bit out top ranks jim um when we were fighting he was actually a really cool guy you know and he was a big fan of mine too so it was kind of neat to be able to share it out with him and you know talk with him before he started training that's cool that's cool ebay i think i want to say that he's getting out soon he was in jail for a long time and apparently there was some article that i read a couple of years back that

103:10he was planning on making a comeback when he gets released but again he's deep into his 40s as well yeah and it's hard to make a comeback and no matter if it's heavyweight or not at that level you know after being out i tell people all the time with even young kids that are 21 and 22. when sometimes these promoters freeze their contract or there's a dispute going on and they sit out two years sometimes they may not ever come back fully from that yeah you know what i mean it's true especially at that high of a level you know in boxing didn't mikey garcia have a contract that he did in a long time yeah and i was concerned about that when he came back you know i was i was concerned about how much damage that time off could have done how long was his contract i think it was two years he didn't have over two years for a top-level fighter like him that's a disastrous it is and you know but

103:57mikey on the other hand he's a genius in the ring and he just he has that going for him you know and uh he also could fight yeah you know as he's been doing this since he was so young and being in a family i think the kid came out to boom with boxing gloves on so there's so many good fights to be made right now it's just uh it's a really exciting time it's just a really really exciting time which is and you know another reason why i'm bummed out that hbo got out of the game yeah i would like to see hbo come back i mean you know there's talks of it and uh i think it would be great for the sport again if it came back as big as it did now don't get me wrong towards the end it was kind of hard to watch with some of the fights they had on in my opinion you know they just weren't interesting they weren't big fights um you know and do you think that was a funding thing like

104:45they didn't have enough of a budget that or i think they knew longer that they were they were on the way out yeah and saved the money you know um i don't know how many subscriptions they lost from that i i don't know if it hurt or what but that's why i say after keeping the fight game open and they're showing that i see you coming back especially if showtime stays with the boxing and doing as big as they are in the box office with the the numbers i see hbo i think it would have to come back well i think with things like netflix and amazon prime they're they're making these television shows now that are so popular that it's and they they're such high budget but you get things like game of thrones it costs so much money to make but so many people watch it i think they're concentrating on those kind of things because they're so profitable and i don't think it's the networks anymore

105:34they got to worry about shutting down too with all these other zulu and amazon and netflix being out you know i think some of the eventually some of the cable companies are going to have to worry yeah no i'm sure yeah it seems like you know it's we're entering into a new uh era of entertainment yeah technology and the advancement of it you know again these apps people i think that espn plus had over 7 million some subscribers when it came out because of the boxing and everything else and yeah that that the zone does the us or you know fights on there and and uh boxing so you're going to have these coming out and people are going to get into it and it's changing it's changing a lot well they're doing uh bellator fights they're doing a lot of fights on the zone right yeah yeah it's um it's a it's very exciting time have you thought about you you were saying talking a little bit about

106:24commentary have you thought about doing commentary yeah i have have you ever done any of it no no no but i would like to you know honestly i i would uh i not knocking anybody i may not be the best talker in the world either but i listen to some of the guys on there and i'm like i think i could do that you know um listen i know you could do it you definitely do it um but it's to me it adds a certain element when a real world-class fighter is breaking down situations because you're getting to see it from their perspective of how they would approach it in it's not just a guy who's a boxing expert it's a guy who did it who did it yeah a guy who was a world champion like andre ward like when andre ward's on i love that guy as a commentator yeah so paulie is good too paulie's andre and paulie's is one of my favorites he's excellent damn that talks good yeah for all the times he's been hit

107:14well yeah you know what he moves his head a little bit he said a lot yeah he's as smart as man yeah he is he's uh in all aspects of life you know he's he's doing well for himself and uh he does the right things so paulie he's a great person i like him he's a good buddy of mine and uh yeah it is you know i think when the fans like to watch and see you know they want to hear from the historian or the guy that's a the other commentator who just knows the sport and who can speak well they like karen their side of it yes but i think at some certain times during a fight they like to hear from the fighter like hey what the hell is going through that guy's mind he just got smashed you know with that right hand or you got hit with a good body shot why does this keep happening again why is why is he doing this what's going on what the fighter you think should be set

107:59in the corner you know they're in between rounds so i think it's important to have a guy that's been there done it as a commentator andre ward is another interesting guy because he's also young and also world champion undefeated and just decided you know what i'm good see ya he is he is uh right now actually it's funny and i'm gonna have to talk about it a little bit we were i was covering the fight the lomachenko per draw as a fight and he comes up to me and out of nowhere and he's like hey he's like damn you're getting big and he's smiling shakes my hand and he walks down to you know cover the fight and i'm sitting there and looking watching the fights and then i'm getting ready to head out after you know the fight's about over and he comes walking up and he goes hey if they offered you 10 million dollars would you make a comeback i'm like i couldn't find a reason why i wouldn't

108:50um i don't know and he he smiled and he walked away and i was going i'm scratching my head i'm going i wonder why you know why he would ask me a question like that yeah i've seen recently that he's looking out at certain fighters as a possible comeback oh so he's thinking about doing it again yeah yeah he is that itch it said no it's real yeah it's real itchy i just don't think you're ever gonna find anything that's gonna recreate the highs of like when you knocked out jermaine taylor how the could you recreate that high you can't you can't that combination when you pinned him in the corner and put him away and then you walk away and you realize that you won holy and that don't even kick and that's all going 100 miles an hour you're up on that i see the pictures of that pull that up with the hands in the air and i see all the people and you know that's just it was so fast and

109:44you know it took me a while before i could even though i walked out of my house and i had him up you know on the side this was before i still live with my parents at the time and i i did too and i had him up at the house and i'd be leaving to go to the gym or something i look over at the belts and i'm i keep going wow you know what those are mine but it never really kicked in until like a little while later like those are my belts yeah like that i did that that i'm i'm the world champion not only i got one but i got three of them when you were lying in bed that night you probably had to be going am i in a dream that's what it felt like here it is what a fight this was god damn this was a fight this was one of my all-time favorite middleweight championship fights for sure and jermaine taylor man he was a bad he wasn't and again you know a lot of people talked about the

110:36handful of fights before that and the tough you know with smaller guys but he was a bronze medalist who beat you know the man bernard hopkins there it is doom it's a combination when you put him away too phenomenal man phenomenal this right here what you walked away that was all blur i just put my hands up yep man i mean what that feeling like trying to describe that like what is going through your head everything possible for him not to get back up i know it sounds funny when people say that but that's the truth you know my big thing was if i got somebody hurt get them out because boxing is dangerous right you know and anything can happen if they can get back up they have a chance at knocking you out or beating you so but when it was over like what does that feel like it's it's hard to explain it it really is you're just you're you're on cloud nine you just nothing i could

111:30bring you down you know you're uh you went from being a dopamine is through the roof to being a world champion to being a huge superstar in boxing yeah and it's hard to grasp at once and it takes time and unfortunately sometimes you get it when it's too late you know what i mean you really grasp it and it's just one of them things that's you know even i was talking with a guy last night and he brought up he was uh originally from south korea he was talking about he goes there all the time big business guy and he says uh they actually studied my fight down earlier something on how you could get knocked down this is more of you know in your field of it up your alley how you get knocked down and what gets a guy to get back up and recover the recovery the endurance to pretty much have your brains rattled but be able to come back that strong browns later

112:24and knock somebody out you know yeah and for me the simple answer is you know of course training hard you know making sure i'm in shape but i guess what he's trying to figure out is like what's what's the the brain wave the mindset why is that what's the um drive that gets you to do that what is the endurance of the muscles and you know that's pretty deep thinking and a little past i think there's a lot there there's a lot and there's no one first of all every combination that you get hit with is different you know some some combinations you're just not going to get up from and some of them you you're on the border can you get up can you not get up how bad do you want it maybe you think about your daughter maybe you think about your mom yeah and you just get this burst of adrenaline you're like this i'm getting up and the referee gives you the count you

113:09just fight smart keep your hands up and keep moving the next thing you know that cardio kicks in and then you're back like look at tyson fury that's that's the way i looked at it that's like the simple way of looking at it tyson fury against wilder by all rights dutch fight should have been done he lands that right hand and then that left hook and you see tyson fury go down like he got hit in the head with an asteroid yeah boom he's just flat on his back you're like holy he knocked him out in the 12th round and then everybody thought he did the undertaker yeah you know the way he sat up i seen all the like memes and gifts of him uh sitting up and like they showed the undertaker doing it with that right there i think a little different from mine i personally believe that he wasn't hurt that bad really i believe that he got dropped and that was legit but he was laying there taking the

113:56eight nine seconds you know to recover and he got up i don't think he was out because there's no real way to be out that cold i don't know get up and get up and the hand of jesus yeah right now the hand of jesus came down upon him man let's watch that knock down pull up that knock down yep um i feel like that was one of the most dead as far as you were talking about that as far as like what's going through your head it's crazy because when i got knocked down it was more of an equilibrium shot but i could hear my legs were gone but i could hear certain people in the stands and i knew what was going on and the first thing that was in my head was and you worked way too hard to go out like this so it is that drive yeah here it is right here what's crazy is that wilder look at this boom i mean come on man this dude he's i just hurt he's hurt something happened jesus came down upon him

114:56that's why that's why i'm saying i think i don't know maybe he was hurt i mean he went down he went down pretty bad he went talking incredible and then his ability to recover yeah and the fact that he's not the best in shape guy either you don't think so well i mean he kept moving for 12 rounds yeah he did do that but to be able to get up that quick well how is he not the best in shape guy i mean to be a six foot yeah that's a crazy knock down and then wilder does this he's a great shape for for a heavy weight you could put it that way i see what you're saying yeah well no heavy weight is ever going to be in the same kind of shape that say uh welterweight's going to be in just because you're carrying around so much bodyweight but i'm saying from the point of getting up that quick yeah after being dropped and and not to be stumbling and and falling over it's true i mean he

115:44just came back and that's why i'm thinking more so like yeah he got hurt and i'm probably wrong on this but i'm saying like yeah he got hurt and he's landing he's going let me just let's watch it here here comes that missile and then this one i mean come on son timber that's that is some crazy they said he hit his head but he did not yeah if people say he had his but his head bounced off the mat it never bounced off the mat um he he kept his head up as he was going back which lets you know that he was conscious but doom and boom i mean he got rocked but i wish they would have had an overview because you could tell by the eyes also right right whether or not they're rolled back in his head or to the side cardio is significant if you're in great cardio shape you recover quicker you know there's there's a bunch of different factors in why you recover quicker your mindset

116:41has to play a factor right how bad you want it that's what i'm saying i mean no doubt he was hurt from that punch and he went down i'm just thinking for that period of time was he laying her also saying i'm gonna take the full eight nine to get up or like you said did a did a hand come down upon him and rose from the dead he's just a tough man and a good guy too super smart guys funny yeah i mean what a character and now when you were training and you were doing your your strength and conditioning did you were you like an old school method guy or did you use heart rate monitors and all the new school methods no i was i i like the uh functional strength training i did a lot of that what kind of stuff i do uh sledgehammer and entire uh matt brown uh has a great uh he's got uh what is matt's company give his his company a plug i think it's uh immortal something strength and conditioning but

117:36he's got a great bunch of uh um he's got sledge hammers but with a rounded head so you don't have to swing it around and uh immortal combat equipment immortal combat equipment he's got a great sled too these stack weights on and uh he left a lot of that stuff out there this grip yeah the war wagon a lot of uh different uh grip strength uh apparatus things like balls that you uh do chin ups for those those balls on the far left you do uh chin ups grip and those things yeah he's got some great pull-ups uh dips uh pushing pushing uh trucks um man what else did we get into i guess i would go to this place called ironman warehouse and it was kind of a nice setup there too and it was more for like the the gym owner i love him to death and he's crazy he truly is and he's about 48 now and he can still run he runs with the matter of fact that uh my role title fight against taylor at the boardwalk

118:31everybody kept talking about there's like 4 000 people talking about this crazy guy running on a beach what i think the log was like 120 pounds just running non-stop yeah real christian guy you know into it and he does all that yeah he runs all the piece races with that um phenomenal shape well you had a place down and a lot of it was the functional strength training you know i do pull-ups on fire hoses and for the gripping and everything else that that's what i like doing that was you know i wasn't building muscle but i was getting strong as hell and i was getting also a lot of cardio work involved in that but for the most part it was the uh the the shrink there he is yeah running around with a log on here he is this running around with a log that can't be good for your knees i wonder how he's walking right now like right now i see guys do screw screw screwy like that i go okay you can

119:26do that right now but let me see what you look like in six months let me call you back i'm gonna call you doing it for a long time i don't know though how he does it but uh that's so much weight on your joints to be running with a 120 pound log on your shoulder he's a freaking nature i mean that what does that show the ninja warrior or whatever yeah i truly believe that he could go into that and do very well in that i mean he at the at the ironman warehouse he had the little balls and he swings from each one up there uh he takes the 45 pound plates and he throws them up in the air and catches them back coming down just crazy things like that and that's where i went to train after the miranda fight i was doing all that on my own for the miranda fight and then after the miranda he had told me he goes i got this place down here come down try it out and i was doing all that crazy stuff

120:14man and it worked yeah and again it was strong the only thing that i wish i could have went back with that now as time goes on and i'm training some athletes at my gym is we have this machine called a virtamax piece of equipment and it's amazing i mean it truly is you could emulate um more so with than you can with the bands what you're doing if you're a football player you know you're going to come off vertimax see if you find that right there for wrestlers is it are these bands like electric elastic buttons but as okay as no there are straps okay with the rubber band your tension's usually gone at the beginning and then you have to get to a certain point to get it as where this has resistance all the way through oh it is a pulley system and you can set the tension on it on the back part you can pull out and make it a little harder attention but it's unbelievable and so when you go back

121:11down there's tension all the way through from beginning to end that's right fast twitch muscle and um a lot of wrestlers are using it ooh i like that so i wish i had that because a lot adding that in with the functional strength training could have definitely made uh me a lot better i think it could for a lot of athletes that seems like you could do everything with that thing yep that's amazing well they have the raptor also which is very good it's the same concept as that but you put it up on the fence and you can run out farther and do different things on the raptor also with that thing could you do like shoulder exercises and stuff with it as well you just have to prop it up i've been screwing around with it at my gym and i found ways to do flies really on on putting a little um balance uh boards i put that down on it and i get the straps where you can do

121:57flies with it yeah shoulder exercise core you know especially with the raptor you can walk out with that what is the raptor it goes on the wall you can it's more for like travel see if you find that thing so you could put it on the fence at a baseball field and you can swing you can even do a golf there it is right there yeah vertimax raptor ah wow look at the golf swing and can you adjust the tension yes there's this on the back so you'll pull it they have little black spots that uh tell you you know it goes up to three three spots so that seems like that would be great for punching power as well it is and the thing is you don't want too much tension with that right you know i try to explain i got some people that work with the guys at my gym on it and they train them more like an endurance thing and i tell them you're defeating the purpose you know there's a place and time for strength

122:44and endurance especially a boxer a guy's running in the morning he's hitting pads at the gym yeah i really think that should be focused on the explosion don't go to your until you're tired i want every rep every movement to have explosion roy jones jr yeah yeah that's amazing so you just uh it's just enough resistance so that everything that you do just gets if you put too much resistance then you're not going to be able to really fire off the fast twitch right right right now the only thing i see also that could hurt people is they do the whole workout with that now what happens you eventually get tired and fatigued and then all your motion is slow so now you fall in the habit of that you know i like to work them on it for about 15-20 minutes um take them off and then have them do the same exercises with it after with no no resistance and then just keep it that

123:33day just with the the fast twitch muscle the small muscle training and then the next day we go into strength you know or endurance so are you training guys i'm right now on this gym and i have a yeah and i have one box what is the name of your jim my gym is called my am i jim so we had we had to change the eye because i've already had my gym my gym yeah and it's not so it's me jim yeah me jim it's me jim come on down to be jim ladder we're in spanish my yeah or in italian yeah no we got uh i'm doing that with them right now um it's fun working with their strength and conditioning you know i am also going to be doing a boxing gym at the end of the summer hopefully um it's going to happen it's just a matter of time now when you were training and you were fighting um did you have a specific schedule of when you would do strength and conditioning and how many days a week you would run how

124:22many days a week you would do like physical exercises yeah you know and that's another thing you all as i've said earlier too you always keep learning you know i wasn't it worked for me for what i did when i was fighting and i would totally have changed it now knowing the stuff that i know and you know being involved in it researching and um you know we used to run monday tuesday wednesday three miles and then take thursday off and then friday and saturday and then we do on top of that i would go to do my strength and conditioning training and then i'll be at the boxing gym that's a lot yeah that's a lot on the body too and um you know as we're like when i went to california we did monday wednesday friday running and it was only two and a half three miles and then those days in between we did the strength and uh conditioning training um so i didn't have a preference on that

125:11i didn't care um the only thing i did say is i didn't want to run early in the morning why is that because i didn't get going i wasn't one of those guys in the morning and it happens to people you know like if i wouldn't ran too early i would end up being feeling like the rest of the day really yeah you know i like just dragging ass as where when i went around at like 9 30 in the morning i got my best running i killed it and then i felt great the rest of the day what how much sleep would you make sure you had that was a tough one i got about seven to eight hours yeah they they say you need eight and you really should try to get 10 when you're a professional athlete i took my sundays off and and i rested all day sunday and i kind of ate you know a good amount of carbs and kind of what i wanted to on sundays you know depending on where the weight was out

125:59and how far out we were from the fight but um i don't i really don't believe in the um theory of you gotta wake your guy up at four in the morning and make him run i don't if i was training guys i want my guy to run out whatever i'm gonna get the best run out of them that's the time i want him to run um he'll adapt and especially after he keeps fighting he'll adapt this more mind over body um but i think the gym is non-negotiable at three o'clock i i like to train and if i was training guys my gym hours would be between three and seven why do you like late afternoons because it gets you closer to the fight night you know especially closer to a flight i would like actually for my guys to train about eight o'clock at night nine o'clock yeah you know depending on what they have and going on in a personal life so you have like a clock so your body has like a

126:46time that it knows it's going to work yeah and i didn't do that what did you do i i sparred at you know four or three but if i'm talking about me being a trainer i would like that for my fighters so what you've learned from your career you just apply it yeah the only thing i would really take from it would be the running in the morning you know if my guy wanted to said hey coach i'd rather run after the gym tonight and i knew that that was going to make a difference in a minute on his models okay run at night because i want him to get the best run possible right you know that's the most important so did you run for speed did you do sprints did you do long distance running like what kind of running did you do i did do sprints we added i wish we could have done more but you know i was big with the uh steps too and we have upstairs yeah youngstown state university in yongsan they got one

127:34side that's pretty big it is steep you know and it goes up and i would do that probably about three times a camp firm believer you got to watch how many times you do that throughout the camp because it builds muscle especially running that high you know doing the steps and then when you start cutting the weight and you got to get down it's going to be hard to to lose that extra pound which could make a big difference come fight night so for a six eight week camp you would only run it three times about three times yeah and then i had sprints on the hills and i did regular sprints because the regular sprints is firing that fast twitch muscle and it's also hitting a big muscle and it's building the legs and strength um distance was was important but still another big one to me is the pad work you know the training at the gym i'm not a big fan of bag work anybody

128:16hitting the punching bag how come because uh you learn how to manipulate the bag and you learn how to uh trick your your trainer and everybody else i could go hit a bag right now and probably do 10 rounds on it you know just because i know how hard to punch it's hard to tell as to where when you're hitting pads i know i heard my guy's punching and i'm giving him the combos and the numbers so he has nothing to do you have to concentrate on what you want him to do and he's not throwing the punches that he wants right you know i mean so it's it's easier i mean it's harder than hitting the bag um i think that's a big part of the training you know what i would do with the guys and and it makes a big difference overall um did you do like a lot of drills in terms in terms of like uh movement drills or movement drills with combinations like how did not not at home either you know i didn't when i

129:07trained in uh youngstown no no i learned a lot of that you know when i went to california from garcia yeah yeah so that was that one of the reasons why you what you were saying like man it was amazing that i could learn so yeah because you know i was cocky i'm going yeah what's the they're gonna show me after 12 years of being pro he's an awesome trainer yeah you know i was cocky what i'm like i got all these fights and i was you know great amateur what more can you show me and i went out there and i learned you know you can't be taught and uh taking nothing away from you know jack and my trainer at home i mean that guy he got me ready though like if you're fighting i was in shape you know he was like a drill sergeant on that and you know another little thing on that but the running you know cement i think now i would have my guys run on grass track you know if it's boring i

129:55don't care if you're bored running you know you're gonna run around the track it's easier on the joints and uh less demand on the body but uh so overall i mean there's a lot that's why i like it that's why i like being involved right now with the strength and conditioning gym because i'm working with people getting them healthy helping them out and eventually i could add a lot of this to my my fighters you know yeah there's a long education when it comes to physical fitness the long education understanding how much is too much when's the right time to do things and that's one of the reasons why i was asking you like how did you decide if you were going to do three times over the course of a a training camp you're going to run those stairs how did you decide that was that a strength and conditioning coach that decided that no that was just because yes because i

130:38didn't want the muscle i knew you could put some weight yeah come time when when you're starting to dry out yeah you're going to wish that you kind of didn't but i always was afraid in the back you know i was a second guess of my my conditioning so i always wanted to be strong you know right again that the stuff like that that wasn't out yet you know we had the bands and we do so many exercises on that i never researched much at that time either i was in great shape and i was strong as a mule but there was other things like being athletic i started eventually towards the end doing some cross training you said you're a big fan of that yeah i absolutely am also i think becoming a great athlete overall there's nothing wrong with that and it's fun it breaks up the monotony of the same training regimen all the time do you remember when they didn't want you to lift

131:24weights they didn't want boxers to lift weights like before mackie shillstone uh before he worked with um uh michael spanx when he when he moved up to heavyweight fought larry holmes i mean remember people were saying like you they don't want boxers to lift weights that it's going to tighten you up and slow you down like that was that was the thought process behind it and then from him and then in particular holyfield when holyfield went from cruiserweight to heavyweight and he put on a lot of mass that was mackie shillstone too right yeah yeah i mean that that just changed the game jamie that's your guy but i don't want to make him have to keep searching things he loves it they actually have if you could put in um uh kelly pelvic workout workouts uh training we had a guy too with the weight i did do weight lifting when you were when i was fighting yeah but and i do agree

132:15with the weight lifting and i don't agree with it i don't think you should go heavy with the weightlifting if you're going to get your strength i absolutely um look how thin you are man training slim bastard yeah tr put uh training with rock at rockies or something like that that was california yeah there you go that second one um yeah i see the light weight yeah but we would do hundreds and hundreds of reps just endurance yeah burn just burning when you look at yourself without all the tattoos do you go huh look at all that blank canvas look at those arms but you look at those arms now you're probably embarrassed those gigantic tree trunks you're packing now oh yeah but those things kick ass those things will your head up they would yeah exactly i don't know if i have to snap on it now like i had then but um yeah so the weights stuff like that i totally agree with because it is great

133:07for muscle endurance and if you're going to get the strength i go back to the functional training for that i don't think a boxer or a combat might be a little different with ufc guy mma fighters because of the wrestling the wrestling and everything else and that will come down to having somebody that really knows like i said you never stop learning in it um but for me with my guys yeah endurance training like that that's great and you could even switch that in with some functional um endurance training too you know one thing we used to iron man a standard get a heavy chain and the arms locked out for the front delts and turn it turn it you know for the endurance do for a period of time so there's just a lot of things that you could add in and i think you know everybody goes well you don't over train them and that's another thing like the body it's really hard to over train

133:52i mean you the only way you could really over train is if you're not getting the right nutrition and you're not getting the right rest yeah you know um or if you push too hard you don't give yourself enough recovery time and you you push it too close to a fight yeah you see that's too long and you don't get enough rest period in between that's a big one the too long a camp um you know tim sylvia or not tim sylvia tim kennedy who's a uh big uh who's for one time at one point he retired now but he was one of the top middleweight contenders he went through two camps in a row because one of his fights got cancelled rolled right into his head camp and then fought and then had no endurance in his fight you could kind of tell that he was drained he just it was just too long like seven six or seven months of really being in camp something along those lines and

134:35probably in the in the lines of some word the nutritionist it could come down on a person like that is he getting enough you know of the sources he's also cutting a lot of weight exactly so you know dehydration everything else um yeah it's and it's hard i mean you've got to find if you're going to bring somebody in i was fortunate my dad you know we kind of kicked ass on that we had a little sign brought you know broken down to a science and uh we made weight good and we were strong um did you monitor your heart rate ever no never just felt how you felt yeah you know like did you write down like how what different kinds of exercises you were doing and workouts or did you play it you played it all by heart yeah and i still do that i still put that in my even uh weightlifting really yeah i feel like when you write down you limit yourself how so because if i go and i

135:25see guys all the time not knocking at everybody but i see them come in with a little notepad yeah and they have what they got and i see them go over and do literally only four sets on the bench and they write down what they did and then they go over and do some dumbbells or same with the squats i feel you're limiting yourself i mean you didn't work that muscle to you know failure and you should most of the time because if not that becomes maintaining you're not breaking down the muscle fibers you know and afford it to recoup i feel you know when you go and lift i'm not saying every exact time you have to kill it but when i go in i want to do either a little bit heavier or more reps than i did last time you know what i mean for me to get to the point where i want to get and it has worked for me um i i do i feel like when you write down the only time i do write things

136:12down is if i'm doing a chart i'll go through that chart and then when i finish with it i finish out with so many reps in that same percentile of my pr you know what i mean and i'll go down now then i have a speed day an endurance day with it and that's when i rep out and i do sometimes up to 300 reps you know on the body part and speed and endurance and then before i even do that i work on say if this bench or squats i get the bands and i have my guys do no more than six reps and it all got to be explosion because that helps in powerlifting for that one rep max you know the explosion off so it comes down you know and that's my theory on it a lot of people you know do it and then you got guys who do write down though do you think there's any benefit in the kind of lifting that you're doing now for a boxer i think right now if you have the time yeah it could help if you're atomic in

137:04between yeah if you had time to get that big or get that strong for maybe two months of heavy but i'd also think that you need a good period of time of no heavy lifting to recover before you start really boxing so your body's going to be used to it muscle memory you know you'll still be you're not going to lose all that strength because you're not just stopping the power lifting you're not doing anything you know it seems like a real guessing game or at least experiment i wouldn't try it if i was active and i had active fighter but yeah i would like to see somebody try that eventually one day you never know they're always coming out with something or they're always debunking some other you know uh you have to do this and my favorite thing is where i get in about the training when people say you can't do this two days a week you can't bench or squat look at your guys in jail

137:51all they do every day yeah if i lift weights and eat shitty food and they don't have the supplements that we have you know they can't take a protein powder drink in bcas so and and they're not small they're huge they're jacked they're lifting every day yeah so i don't know well are you from familiar with uh pavel totsolini yes wasn't the guy also with the uh kettlebells yeah yeah he's um he's got some interesting thoughts about um about strength training in particular because he's one of those guys he believes you should do more rest in between reps uh less reps and you should do it more often so instead of like one brutal workout a week where you break your body down and you walk like you're getting in the ass by a rhino for two days instead of that you you work out with less repetitions don't go to failure but do it two or three times a week you get more

138:49repetitions overall over the end of the week but you'll you'll be able to recover better and you never get that full breakdown but your body gets just as strong or stronger i've seen that and i actually i was reading on that and i was going to put that in you know put that into my program and i read a lot of them i see like uh simmons with west side um they got some great ideas and that's when it comes to lifting weights and powerlifting there's only so much so somebody's got it from somebody you know what i mean like west side they were big with the russian olympic team and everything else there's only so much you could do there's only so many programs you could do where you're not tapping in and copying off this person's um i think adding that in there's nothing wrong with that either now now changing it up after a while and shocking that body i think that actually helps you get

139:33stronger you know and changing the program a little bit but um you know if that works i don't know and that's something i may try one day because i'm doing powerlifting but powerlifting ain't going to be my vacation home in hawaii you're just doing the powerlifting for a group yeah for fun it was you know it was something that was fun and uh i got guys who i got involved with a buddy of mine actually a coach on you know certain days of the week we work on the heavy lonnie atkins he's great he's a like six seven time world champion power lift and drug free you know um federations like raw and uh wnpf and that's what i'm in because i feel like you know i'm not knocking the other people that use the steroids and stuff but for me i like going a natural route and you know it's funner especially if you think about fighting again because if you do you don't want to

140:24up your endocrine system well that's where i really turned against it also is because of the boxing yeah you know what i mean um i i don't want to make anybody too mad but when people use it i feel like you're taking away and then i do feel like it's cheating i tell people in the gym my gym you know there's certain people internet that do it and they try to come over and tell people how to work out and it's kind of like listen you're working out is totally different than this guy's and what you do to get big is totally different all because of that that reason yeah it is it truly is especially powerlifting exactly and i got guys right now that are freaks of nature that do it and you could tell that they're not on it because if they are then they have a long talk with their dealer um you know what i mean one of those type things but i i like doing it because

141:09for me it's it's not cheating you know and also i like the fact of like when i hit a plateau i look it's more fun for me to go through and research things and look at like how do i get out of that and what's what's good nutrition that helps naturally raise this or raise that you know what i mean and different workout routines like the boardwork chains you know add that all in so that's where it comes fun for me also yeah do you do um do you get your blood work done or anything like that i did get a blood panel last last year and just last year yeah that's it yeah you don't get like normal ones regular ones kind of afraid though man i am going i'm getting to that age you know i don't want that coming back it's like bad you don't want to know yeah you know hell if i start feeling it then i'll go but um no but you should too i i recommend it to everybody and every

141:58athlete you know they should and eventually my time is to go back soon also yeah i think it's a really important thing i think everybody should do it on a regular basis i really do just i know you don't want to know about anything bad but you do no but you do have to if there really was something funky going on and you know you went to the doctor and the doctor's like kelly these these numbers are bad this is we got to we got to do some more exactly work more tests and see what the happening yeah especially with all these different diets that people are getting on i'm seeing horrific things i had a brother-in-law from you know a certain diet that keto diet you know what happened to him fatty liver uh this that's because he's not you don't drink yeah keto diet that's what i'm hearing well you really look at it i mean you're eating the fat all that fat it's something that's good for you

142:42yeah but if that's how your body got to burn you know and your organs got to the what happens with people where it does get dangerous is first of all that with if you have certain uh certain genes uh certain people it's just not the best diet for and it's it's a lot of trial and error to find out but it's also if you engage in a high fat contact content diet but you also have high carbohydrate which is where a lot of people cheat and up that's not good that's that's not good for you like you you got to get your body into ketosis into ketosis yeah if you don't get your body into ketosis and you're taking this high level of fat in the car high level carbs it's not it's just not a good cause and what it also is you know what i do on it if you come off of it you can't just indulge into the carbs either right don't you slowly work that back into that your

143:28body always knows how to process carbs it's more difficult to get your body fat adapted but once your body does get fat adapted what i found is i'm not on a ketogenic diet right now but when i've been on it i can get back in it pretty quick but it takes a while like the first time i did it it took a solid two weeks before i felt normal okay for two weeks i was dragging ass it was hard to stick through like i didn't want to stick through it i just wanted to i'm like i'm just gonna have a apple and a bowl of pasta and blow this diet off but if you get through it then you feel your body switch over when you feel your body switch over what happens is you have more even energy throughout the day less tired no crash in the middle of the day but i do have to say it took a long time before my workouts felt like i could have the same intensity i would die off quicker and that's how i

144:21look at even some of those um what do you call it intermittent dieting's too intimidating fasting yeah fasting yeah like the uh when you're drying out and you're not eating in that period i wouldn't recommend working out at that time power lifting or uh strength training yeah i think that's a different kind of animal yeah because now you're getting tearing down the muscles everything else yeah maybe some cardio wouldn't hurt listen i'm not that's why i'm saying i'm not knocking all of them and i my brother-in-law you know the doctor told him they think that's what it was from now granted that could be because he messed up on a diet somewhere along the line you know i'm eating uh i had a doctor that a buddy also that got fatty liver from eating too much of the meat again that could have been grass-fed or steroid type meat makes it vodka who knows what the yeah yeah

145:09i don't even know if but if that does cause a diet i'm sure it does yeah and me personally i'm not knocking any of it because here pretty soon i got to try some myself you know what i mean um i got to start losing weight again well did you start eating like crazy because of the power lifting yeah those guys eat like savages and now they're also coming out too like where you could eat right and lose weight and still be strong you know um me yeah i started eating like that and then it really i'll tell you where it gets me so i was never a real big sweet sweet tooth eater uh i use a piece of cake or a candy bar here and there i'd have like total throughout the day one count of pop i'd drink a half a can in the morning or an afternoon then at night pop for people who didn't grow up in ohio in ohio oh yeah that brought soda okay coca-cola pepsi you know sorry you a pop guy

146:02columbus man yeah there you go ohio in the house yes and uh that's right yeah we talked about that and that that's what i would do so it wasn't that bad but it was still enough sugar that's a lot of sugar yeah and and then i i was starting the one meat i was doing a two twenty pound weight class that was 232 and my guy was like you ain't gonna make it in six days to get down to 220. and that kind of like i get i chuckled at that because i had to make 160 before so i got all this fat sitting on me you're gonna tell me i can't lose that in six days uh bet and this is for a power lifting yeah so i got down with that and i was doing it i watched what i i didn't even do hardly any cardio for that and i still got down fairly easy to 220. then now where i'm falling into this bad habit is i'll have like a piece of cheesecake sitting in the refrigerator okay i know

146:53and i love cheesecake and that's true that's one of my favorites it's a good one and it would be two cans of pop left right and my whole thing is i can't start i can't start watching because i don't want to say diet i start saying i'm watching what i eat and i go i can't do that so that's gone i can't have that i know but it's weird i'm telling you i can't i can't start it until it's gone but you can't throw it away okay i can't throw it away and i'm why can't you throw it away because it's only one piece left and i don't want to do that so and then the next thing i know my sister-in-law who who's a hell of a baker she makes something for the kids or makes me a homemade cheesecake and the next thing i know i'm back into the same thing again now let me tell you something else that that uh contributes to this i think all the years of fighting and having to watch my weight

147:41and especially for me to get down to 160 and even when i was fighting at 47 in the amateurs my life was pretty much running and it was a job you know it was time somebody was there i just couldn't go run i had to run it so fast and i was being timed for it and distance i had to watch what i was eating i had people over me watching what i was eating and when i retired i was like this man i'm free right you know what i mean and i i sometimes put that in the back of my head i shouldn't but i put in the back of my head like man you deserve this man screw it you did that all these years like but now it's coming to the point too like you are getting a little older you look a little bit like other than your arms like you're going to have to start hitting the treadmill you know what i mean it's one of those type things where you just cut the sugar out yeah and it

148:26works and i don't want to hear people say that they can't lose weight now that will only work for a certain period of time until that like levels out then you guys that's when you start tweaking the calorie intake and right but you can lose a lot of weight if you just cut out the sugar yeah you can yeah so that's why i mean i don't want to hear people say it's hard so i'm eventually you know i said when i get home from this trip because like last night i went out with my buddy and we ate uh pizzas and stuff like that so you know i don't have the access to healthy food right now right while you're on the road yes there's plenty of places in l.a you can eat healthy i know they're how dare you how dare you say you can't eat healthy here that's the mindset man i know yeah the mindset but that's you know the thing about a lot of great fighters is they're very impulsive too yeah it's just

149:11that it it mentality that sometimes carries over to eating look at a lot of your retired fighters yeah i think i mean they blow up again i keep saying i'm not like bragging or anything but here i'm fairly decent you know what i mean i think at least you enjoy working out i think some guys they got to a point where they worked out so hard for camps that when it's over they don't want to do yeah they're just like i'm done it's over no desire no drive well that's why cardio is very rare for me right now and uh you know i used to say this too all the time after a fight i have probably two three weeks off and i there's a place called mill creek park and a lot of people go to run and exercise and stuff like that and there's a main street that goes past the park and you see people riding the bike and running i'll never forget my wife actually started laughing i just got

150:02done with a fight and we're driving past mill creek park and these people are out running and i go what idiots like who gets up and go runs you know um and that chances are that's hilarious chances are i if i didn't have to do it like that i didn't have somebody hounding me or over me while i was running chances are i would actually like running and i would like doing cardio and adding that into my my training but because it was a job for all the mirrors from nine years old to 30 years old it was like screw this man i don't want to run you know the only way you'll get me to run is if there's a fire or a big-ass dog behind me you know that's the only way that uh or if i want to run to the buffet table but i know some people do it every day but yeah you know every day before work and they put in five six miles every day and you know in this reality you have to yeah you got to

150:48anymore if you unless you want to be out of shape and miserable i think it's great to actually start working out and even for me i'm lifting weights and it's fun and it's considered exercising but and now with what i'm thinking of doing and everything else i got to start getting into that you know um hitting the bag and everything's fun and i'm hitting the pads and that's cardio i mean that should that's just really cardio and now but if you're really thinking about fighting and you're you said more than 60 right yeah 80 i would say between around 70 to 80. that's a lot that is that is but again and i'm strongly going to say this um there's a lot of that goes behind a lot more to think about also you know so i don't want because what i don't want is in six months when i say you know what no i don't want the backlash for it right he's up again and he you know

151:42that's the way it goes it does but you gotta not read that i know but that's unfortunately it really is you read comments you know i try not to and you catch them and you get them i try not to use it seems like the boxing world in particular has a lot of haters but you know what it's nothing like football like if a fighter loses i was i was watching barstool sports barstool sports instagram they got some guy leaving a football game screaming and yelling i'm like this guy is what i think about when i think of like douched out like sports fans this guy screaming about somebody not being able to make a kick you know what i'm yeah talking about going crazy it's so funny i love i love it i love it i love hearing the when i was playing football when i was in high school when you're watching these big games and you'll see it on social or i'll be at a buddy's house and

152:35i see yeah but i would have made that get that out of here right people love saying stupid like that like how many times has anybody given you boxing advice oh i have people that don't know the difference between a left hook and a fishing hook i swear to god they don't and why didn't you just hit him because you should have got up and hit him this tmz material no but i mean like like they're saying to you why didn't why didn't you just hit him i don't know you know i seen that episode that was the funniest i i think it was on one of your episodes but uh charlie murphy and they were doing the mike tyson and like a de la hoya um situation that happened like the guy said he could beat up de la hoya and that's true i wish i could happen on a regular basis you know like call people out on it when you're in front of somebody right yeah how many times i hear people say like i could i could

153:21have beat him and it's like why is he sitting on like 25 million dollars and you're over here uh picking up ups shipments you know what i mean like there's a difference for a reason nobody's knocking what you do but you shouldn't knock what he's doing well you're delusional you are people are delusional for whatever reason especially when it comes to sports and fighting in particular people just say some unbelievably delusional i don't know why and i truly don't and i don't understand it and i'd never get into the argument long enough to even ask the question well when was the last time you went on somebody else's page and commented on i i i can't tell you yeah because you're a world champion yeah and i don't that's another reason hey listen you know that's funny too because how many of them i want to right right how many of the threads might involve me because you know again

154:09and the reason why i have to stay up on it is because that's part of my podcast right you know we're through to social media so i have to and these boxing groups and even on our own fight uh or punchline uh boxing group you see that the the comments and i'm just going i'm like i can't really answer that though because i look corny as if i answer that one right you know it's hard and it's frustrating it really is yeah well the the the interesting world that we live in today i mean it's a great time to communicate with people it's amazing but it's also a great time for douche bags to communicate to you it is dangerous time actually though yeah but i think it's cool that you're doing this podcast thing and uh i i think it's awesome and i really do hope you do commentary as far as you fighting hey man if you fight i'll watch but if you don't fight i'll be happy too i'll

154:56definitely keep you in the loop tell me let me know i will definitely keep you in a loop come back on if you do announce something something's happening i will do it let us know and tell people how to get a hold of your podcast how can they get it my podcast is the punchline.live that's the easiest way to get to it or on youtube also you go to punchline with kelly pavlik and james dominguez and we're on also on uh social media on tuesdays at seven o'clock uh eastern time so those are the easy ways is it on itunes as well no no no and that's uh where we're trying to go that on itunes jesus christ hey listen i'm learning um yeah but yeah punchline.live and then you know you go to youtube the punch line with kelly pavlik and james dominguez and uh that's the way to get to it well thanks for doing this brother hey thanks for watching man my pleasure i truly joe

155:48it was awesome man i appreciate it man fun times kelly pavlik ladies and gentlemen that was two hours