Aubrey Marcus (Part 1)

00:00Joe Rogan Experience. When to get started. This podcast has been very interesting for a number of reasons. It's been a weird little ride. Unexpected, we never thought we were going to do this. This totally came out of nowhere, just me and Brian just fucking around. but one of the best parts about it has been the ability to get all these people together, to get all these cool dudes that we're friends with and really spend a lot of time with them much more time than we would have spent with them talking about shit if we didn't have a podcast you know like Brian Callen I mean we've really gotten deep into who Duncan is, man I know Duncan so much more over this last year it went from like going to a comedy club and saying hi to somebody like, oh, how was your week to actually digging into this person for two to three hours?

01:02Yeah, finding out their thoughts on everything, politics, religion, life and death. And Chris is one of the more interesting cats that we met along the way. And he's responsible for getting us together with the Fleshlight. That was the first group, the first person ever that offered to sponsor us. you know and uh and he's also um you know he's an interesting dude and he's uh I'm glad that we met you're you're you're um you're a unique character and a real one you're a real one there's a lot of people out there pretending to be guys like you but they're not really you know what I'm saying like uh you're you're just um I'm just very happy we met I'm very happy we're friends and this uh this latest experience that you have gone on is one of the reasons why I really I really dig you um he's the real jail he's the real deal he got up and he

01:57flew to fucking peru and uh he went to the jungle with those root-eating motherfuckers and how did you sleep in camps what did you yeah it was little huts open how many days were you down there for I was in uh in the jungle for six and then out in the mountains for another six or seven now he got so fucked up on this ayahuasca that he changed his name I died joe I had to come back something else He used to be Chris, and now he's Aubrey. Or you murdered somebody, and you're running from the law. I'm running from the Peruvian authorities. I'm fascinated, I'm perplexed, I'm horrified, I'm all of the above. So let's get into it. So how did you find out about this place? For those who don't know what ayahuasca is, ayahuasca is the orally active version of the most potent psychedelic drug known to man, which is dimethyltryptamine. And dimethyltryptamine is produced by the human body.

02:55They don't understand why, but they believe that it's produced during heavy REM sleep and during periods of extreme stress. They don't know what it is. They don't know what its real true function is, but they do know that it is the most incredible hallucination-creating, visionary, psychedelic experience known to man. It's a mind-boggling, incredible experience. But it's not orally active because it's in so many different plants that if you got it orally from eating it, man, people would go on DMT trips all the time. Because it's in all sorts of different grasses and plants and usually in a combinatory state with a bunch of other, you know, whether they're active or non-psychoactive ingredients. Like some plants actually contain 5-methoxy-dimethyltryptamine, which is another form of DMT that's just as – actually more powerful but unique and different than the regular DMT experience.

03:59But we're getting off track. What ayahuasca is is the shamans of South America figured out – and no one knows how long ago they figured this out, whether it's 1,000 years, 10,000 years. It's all guesswork because there's no written history of it. They figured out how to combine. The reason why it's not orally active is your stomach produces something called monoamine oxidase, and that breaks down dimethyltryptamine in the oral form. So once it gets to your stomach, like marijuana, when you eat it, it would get into your bloodstream. Well, it can't because the monoamine oxidase crushes it. So what they figured out how to do is take the root of one plant, the leaves of one plant, and the vine of another plant. And they don't even grow near each other. They're on completely other parts of the jungle. And there's over 100,000 different types of plants in the jungle.

04:53So the fact that they figured out how to do this, and thousands of years ago, and when you ask them, who knows if they're telling you the truth. But what they say is that the plants taught them how to do this. Now, they look at you like you're a big dummy when you ask them. You're like, how did you find that out? And they're like, they told us, dummy. It's like that matter of fact when you're talking to the real deal down there. It's not like they come up with an elaborate story. They just look at you like, well, obviously, they told us. How do you think? Do you think we just guessed? Come on. They told you. Well, you know what? I mean, that seems to be an actual possibility that to me is more likely than they figured it out through trial and error. Well, the combination there, I don't know. I'm not a math type of guy.

05:37It also could be evidence of an ancient civilization that figured out plant pharmacology thousands and thousands of years before. I'm sure there's a lot of medicines that are putting two different things that have nothing to do with each other together. Sure. There's one particular one called curare, which they use. And if they don't do it exactly the right way, it's a deadly toxic poison. But the way that they're able to do it, you know, is just pretty miraculous that a bunch of people haven't died. So there's plenty of examples of that. What is curare? Is it a medicine? I think that's a medicine, right? I think it's the way that they prepare it. I always thought that that was some shit that they would put on poison darts and shoot at people. Maybe I have that. I don't know because I'm only going from like Tarzan movies. Maybe that is the poison dart thing. Do you know how to spell it?

06:30It's C-U-R-A-R-E. C-U-R-A-R-E. Yeah, there's something with the preparation, I think, of it where if they did it wrong, a common name for various arrow poisons. Okay, so that's arrow poison. Originating in South America. Well, I guess if you do it right, it kills people. Maybe with the boiling of fumes or something like that. The point is, it's amazing that these people figured out long before we were ever driving cars or sending emails, they figured out how to combine these two plants and make an orally active version of dimethyltryptamine that, in the words of the shaman, connects you to the spirit world. And the idea is that there is a world that is all around us all the time, but we just cannot tune into it. And it is a world of souls. And it is a world of the afterlife.

07:25And it is a world of non-embodied entities that are, to the experiencer, to the subjective person that's having this experience, they are as real, if not more real, than this life itself. I was there, brother. I saw it. I mean, I was in it. And it was completely indisputable for me. And that was what was so life-changing about it. What was indisputable? Tell us what happened. You go down there. You had to write a whole thing to get in there. What happened there? So it's kind of a school of shamans that have been studying and training and going to classes and things, led by a master shaman who's found out the best in South America, learned from them for 30 years, and is now trying to teach people here in the U.S. about it. So in order to get into this, this is kind of like the master class here. This is the finishing course, going down and taking the medicine down in the Amazon.

08:14So in order to get admitted, I had to write, you know, write a letter and they reviewed it and, you know, did whatever they do to kind of approve me to go along. But eventually I was. So did you have to go through any stages besides writing the letter? This is the master class. This was it was kind of. Yeah, this is like the this is like the ultimate field trip at the end of the at the end of the school, you know, where you actually really get to. Do you have on you what you wrote? I could get it in my email. I would love to read it. in all of its cheesy glory. Because I know it has to be. You probably put some emotional shit in there. Like, I lost my cat. No, that's not the kind of shit you put in there, man. You talk spiritual warrior journey type poetry shit. You talk about your intent. So what did you say? In the letter, basically just said about my intent

09:02to explore these realms of consciousness and why I wanted to do it. I wanted to go there, learn, grow, and bring something back. And that was really the gist of it. And they sent it back to you with a gold star? Yeah, they gave me their thumbs up. There's your Willie Walker golden ticket to meet the spirit world. That's it. Okay, so you get there. You fly in. So fly in. Do you take a van out to the camp? How do you get to the people? Well, we fly and then we take another flight out to a place called Puerto Maldonado. And one of these planes? It was actually a decent-sized plane. I've gone on a lot worse. Was it a propeller? No, no, I had a real jet. Oh, it was a jet. Okay. But then we take a canoe, a two-hour canoe. I mean, we arrived at Puerto Molina. That's where I didn't tell you to go fuck yourself. It's like a real third-world country.

09:47I mean, it's just you smell feces and fish and smiling happy people, but it's like dust and diesel fume. It's one of those places, that two-hour canoe just into the middle of nowhere. You're on the Amazon. Amazon, the Madre de Dios River. Jesus fucking Christ. Isn't it crazy? I've been watching a lot of that Jeremy Wade's River Monsters, so I'm just looking at this muddy brown water, thinking of these eels that burrow through people's flesh and sawfish and all those things that he's pulled out of there. But, yeah, three hours up is two and a half or so up the river to this place. It was just this eco-lodge running on generators out in the middle of the jungle. And generators that are fueled by, is it biodiesel? Like how do they just get it from a source? Do you have a truck come by and deliver it? Well, a big ship. The ship comes up the river.

10:32Do you keep the generators on for a certain amount of time? Yeah, about three hours. Three hours at a time? Yeah, three hours a day. So they have no refrigerators? No, not good ones, I guess. But the food was great, so I didn't really probe too deeply. Maybe they keep the kitchen part on Generation More, but the lights and everything like that, we got about two and a half hours a day. Wow. So at nighttime, it's just dark as fuck. Yeah, and right when you'd start the ceremony, that's when the lights would kick and just boom. And then with the canopies above, I mean, it's just cave black. Now, do they have to worry about jaguars? They do. But the jaguars is a very sacred animal to them. So if it eats you, it's cool. Right. Right. Well, they believe that that's what happens to us when we die anyway. Because you ain't sacred to them, man. I'll tell you that. No.

11:15They have a totally different fucking game plan they're playing with. Totally. Totally different rule book. Yeah, but there was jaguar tracks while we were there in some of the places we were hiking. God damn, son. Jaguars are like mountain lions on steroids. Yeah. Just ninja. Ninja mountain lions. They're killers, man. They're scary as fuck. Yeah. Okay, so you get to this camp. You're two hours on a canoe. And do you speak this language? What language do they speak? They speak Spanish. Do you speak Spanish? Un poquito. Un poquito. So did you bring, like, Rosetta Stone with you? Or did you just have a guide? No, you know, I just kind of, I don't know. I mean, just tried to get by. It actually got a little bit tougher when I was trying to speak about things that are not commonplace, like with the maestro, the head shaman. I mean, trying to communicate with him. He's a maestro?

11:59They call him a maestro? Maestro or Don Orlando, Maestro Orlando. was the guy I worked with. Maestro is an interesting name. Yeah. Because, you know, you think of someone from a band. To them, they're master of the plants, is what they call us. So is that Spanish? Maestro is master? Master of the plants. Vegetalistas. Vegetalistas, right? Yeah. And isn't that one of the names for the... There's two different churches, I believe, in North America that have won, through the Supreme Court, the ability to take ayahuasca in a ceremonial Christian religion. One, it's that name. The church is Santo Daime and the other one is the Vegetalista. Yes. Something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're in like New Mexico or something like that. So you're down there in the jungle, okay? You get to the camp. Do you say hi? Let's fucking do this. Well, yes.

12:48We show up and there was like a general orientation. They feed us. Are they speaking to you in English? Both, English and Spanish. So this is organized. It's organized, yeah. There was like 50 of us going down there. Really? Yeah, it was a big troop. Man, see, that would trip me out, like getting blasted with a bunch of weirdos that I didn't know. It was interesting. They were all super good-natured, but this is not the crew that I would bring on board like a seaworthy vessel if I was going to cross the ocean. A lot of broken people, right? I think they started that way, and this was an answer for a lot of people. But, you know, genuinely good people. I was impressed to see that they weren't a lot of these super kind of fraudulent, pseudo-spiritual, like, I'm so connected. You know, they were like really good people.

13:30Like they were out to help you, but they weren't the saltiest crew, I would say. That element of insincerity is really one of the biggest problems with human beings. And in a sense, a lot of people, whatever you become anything, you got to fake it before you make it. You know, like I've had this conversation with my friends about comics that are comics that are just starting out. And like, you know, that's not a fucking comic. Look at these fucking terrible. Like, God damn, man, if you saw me a week into my act, you'd want to kill me too. I was a faker. I was a faker until I became a comic. But there's something about the spiritual thing. It's like faking spirituality is one of the grossest things. It is. It's even grosser than faking being a rock star. If you're in fucking high school and you're wearing black nail polish and you're growing your hair long,

14:17you decide to fake like you're a rock star until you become a rock star. You know what I mean? Well, because faking to be a rock star actually helps you to be a rock star. Faking to be spiritual actually prevents you from being spiritual. So it's the opposite. it that is an interesting way to see it yeah it um spirituality has so much to do with true humility exactly and not worrying about your fucking image and the the real issue with fake spiritual fake spirituality is that it's all about the image it's all about projecting this artificial piety this artificial you know sense of you know it's like it's like vegans that get real uppity with you about killing animals. It's like what they're really doing is they're taking a moral high ground. They're taking a ground. They're taking, whether it's a Christian ground or a spiritual ground, they're pretending to be above you. Yeah.

15:09You know, and they'll do this with this spirituality or they'll... I think now that I've gone down there, I think anybody we encounter like that should just have to prove it. Just drink a full cup of ayahuasca. We were in... Let's see what happens. We were in 24-hour fitness and I was with Eddie Bravo back when he was in his most ferocious... There was a time when Eddie Bravo would just try to hit on every pretty girl he could run into. The Falcon Days. Could not not hit on him. In that long history. Bad motherfucker. He was being successful. So he was knocking him out of the park. He was enjoying it. But anyway, the point is we're at a gym, and we're lifting weights, and this girl had this cute little body, and she's talking to him. And Eddie is like, so what's up? Where are you from? Blah, blah, blah. And she was like, oh, I'm from out of state.

15:54and I'm really not that happy with California. She was like, real uppity. And he's like, what's up? Like, what's the matter? She goes, well, you know what? There's just a lack of spirituality here. And I don't think that the men are very godlike. That's what she actually said. She actually said they're not very godlike. And we were like, and I was like right there with him. I was like, is that godlike? Like, I don't want to start making fun of her because he's trying to get laid. So I'm being cool and I back off. And I'm like, what the fuck? I'm a god. And then we're over working out. And he goes, she didn't say godlike? The men are not godlike? You know, I guess what she was saying was like, you know, living by the word of God. Anyway, long story short, a week later, we're at the Spearmint Rhino Strip Club in Van Nuys, California. Who takes the stage right in front of us but godlike?

16:44Are you serious? Godlike in the all-nudes strip club with her hot little body. We're looking right at her little asshole. and she looks at us and the fucking poor girl, she remembered us from the gym and she remembered that that was the day that she had probably chosen to try out this new persona. You know, crazy strippers. One day they're super religious and one day they're fucking spiritual. The next day they're, you know, going to be a yoga teacher. You know, they're fucking lost. That's why they're stripping. It wasn't God-like, like perfect body, face, everything like that? Like not religious-wise? No, no, no. She was talking about... No, she was... No, no, no, no, no, no. Clearly, she was talking about spirituality first. She said men aren't spiritual. And then she said they're not very godlike. She was talking about that people aren't spiritual in California

17:26and that she's from a place where people are, you know, much more, you know, in tune with the way of God. But it was hilarious. The strip club's in Nevada, in Nebraska. That's where he finds the strip club. She's fucking not even in a regular strip club. This shit is hardcore. This is pussies and assholes in your face. And she's, you know, quivering her butt and doing that thing when they shake their butt up and down. I'm like, yeah. But it's just godlike. Anyway, that's fake spiritual. So you're in the jungle. There's no fake spiritual people. It's all genuine seekers. I wouldn't say no, but it's like a very high percentage of really. Any hot chicks out there? No. No, not really. There was some that took care of themselves. Actually, I was able to go with my mother on this trip. You went with your mother? Wow. Which was fucking sweet. God damn. That is so cool. Wow. For two days.

18:15A whole new world for her. You must have a really good mom. My mom's dope. She was a semifinalist in Wimbledon, pro athlete. Wow. Traveled the world. No shit. Yeah, for sure. Wow, that's amazing. Your mom's a fucking shit. Yeah. My mom would get annoying after a couple days in Peru, I could tell. Yeah, my mom would be tough action. My mom, somewhere along the line, has become a five-year-old. I have to explain everything to her. Mom, that's fake. It is? Yeah, that's a commercial. What? She'll send me things. Can you believe this? No, I can't because it's not real. It's Bruce Lee playing ping pong with Nunchucks. It's like, have you seen this? Yeah. I don't think I'd be down with going into the spirit world with her. I could never imagine. Unless we were in a bus going off a cliff and I had no choice. Then we're taking that trip together until then. So you get down there with your mom.

19:07You're on a canoe. Did you have to talk her into this or was she totally down? No, she was into it. She was fired up. So I think she was looking for – she doesn't really have any strong kind of set beliefs, but she's like a rabbit explorer. She loves new adventures and things like that. So she knew I was into it, and she's like, yeah, I'd love to do that. Was she ever religious at all? No, not really. No, but she's just open to things, but she doesn't really form her own paradigm necessarily. She knows enough to discard the bullshit monotheistic paradigm. She's like, all right, that's not true. But she hasn't really gone the other way to say, all right, what else can I construct? Now, before she did this ayahuasca trip, did she have any psychedelic experiences? Like a bad acid trip back in college or something like that. So nothing. Nothing pretty much. Did you talk her into this?

19:54Yeah, a little bit. A little bit. She was a bit nervous about that aspect. How old's your mom? 60-ish, I should probably say. This is so mad. So crazy. But she was, you know, they do a really good job when you get down there of explaining. Every one of the shamans we met, kind of jumping ahead in the story a bit, but explaining how it's 100% medicine. Like all of them are like, this is medicine. You don't do this for fun. You do this to cleanse your body, to cleanse your organs. You purge it and it shows you things, you know, and there's a wisdom to it. It's 100% medicine. And they get really offended when you call it a drug. You know, to them it's the medicine. It's the master medicine. Like you said, it's the medicine that they believe has helped them find all other medicines in the jungle. You know, they take the ayahuasca, they go in and that's how they find their other cures.

20:38And all of these shamans, these vegetalistas, ayahuasca is just one part of it. But to them, that's their master sacred medicine. Ayahuasca is so badass that they don't give a fuck about mushrooms. Shamans are like, mushrooms, what are you playing with that shit for? That's true. What are you playing with that shit for? Yeah, you're going to see some crazy Aztec symbols. And you don't need to put that down and have a drink of this. Yeah. But you know what they do say? They say, you know, you can't always get ayahuasca. So they recommend that. Mushrooms when you can get ayahuasca. Yeah, every two months. They're like, every two months, you better do something. And if you got mushrooms, great. Really? They say every two months you should do something. That's what they say. Because they say you need to hit that reset button, reconnect with the earth mother, and that kind of.

21:19Which to them is just a representation of the yin side, that kind of nature side. Wow. Let's move to Peru. I've had some DMT experiences that were so intense, I took years off. I was just like, whoa, I need to think about this. But DMT, the orally active version, is much slower. and more gradual and you can kind of tune in and out of it you can get in the meditative state when it's full blown or as it's slipping away you can get right back in there if you relax and tune into it it's if you're a warrior but if you're a warrior but if it's crap if you're a warrior if you're cracked it's gonna fucking destroy you like there was yeah I'll get into that in the story but you know so you have to know who you are you do before you start fucking with this stuff it's heavy they call it the vine of death you know that's vine of the souls right vine of the souls or vine of death

22:07yeah you know okay so so first night do they give you a little baby dose and see if everybody no so here's so here's how they go you know we get in we get assigned a roommate I ended up with a lucky one roommate yeah we got extra to have your own tent not on this one they didn't have the room I'll be like listen bro yeah I'll give you 50 coconuts just give me my own fucking tent Yeah, for sure. For sure. I'm that guy. Yeah, so he was cool. He was an old Israeli tank commander. Are there no sweets here? He was an old Israeli guy? He was an old Israeli tank commander. Really? Like Romanian water polo star. Okay, I might pay to be hanging out with that guy. Yeah, the only other guy that was like, I was like, God, I got lucky. Like, this was fucking sweet. He was a cool dude. I'm still in touch with him. Oh, wow.

22:50But me and him were the most different out of everybody else in the whole group. Everybody else was definitely, you know, not, as I said, not the saltiest bunch you'd want to bring up. Wow. Okay, so do they slowly let you dip your feet in the water? So here it is. You go in, and they announce the three shamans. They've flown in the three best shamans in Peru, basically, from different camps, different parts of the jungle. One is local to where they're at. So it's like a battle of the DJs. Yes, exactly. And you choose which one you want to work with. So they announced the first one, a long lineage of what he's done. And he kind of integrates some of the Christian saints with some of the ayahuasca work, works with the masculine aspects, has a big bio of all he's accomplished. So like, all right, whatever, but I'm not really going to be into the kind of mixing of the Christian ideals.

23:34So wait for the second guy. He has his own psychology clinic in the jungle and he's helped build this hospital and blah, blah, blah. Another big, long thing. And he sings these sweet songs. And then they get to the third guy and the third guy, they say, only say he's the most traditional and the most terrifying. He calls upon the spirit of the dragon. And that's it. That's all they said. And I was like, that's my guy. That's my guy. That's the one. That's all they said about him? That's all they said about him. See, less is more, people. It's a Clint Eastwood approach to shamanism. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so is this the first night that you get there? This is the first night. So they got you right into it? Right into it. Wow. Okay, so day one. Day one. You pull up in a canoe. What time do you actually get to the camp? Is it noon? About 3.30. 3.30 in the afternoon?

24:17Do you eat first or no eating? We ate right then at 3.30, but then that's it. No dinner because the ceremony starts at 8.30. Okay, so they recommend five hours, that's it, to purge your system? I thought they would ask for 12. This one, they didn't. But the food that they're serving is like jungle food. It's like light, it's clean, it's all grown out there. What do you eat? What kind of food? A lot of vegetables, a lot of quinoa. They had some fresh free-range chicken and a lot of tilapia type of fish, things like that, like really kind of light. And they're catching everything themselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. So you eat, you sit around and just wait for the party to begin? Yeah, I got to know my roommate and kind of wait for it, and then they talk about it a little bit, and then you have a few minutes to kind of gather yourself and get ready for the plunge.

25:04And they've been brewing it all day. These guys brought it from their homes, so they brewed it in their homes. So you don't get to watch them brew? No, I mean, they have to boil it, you know, boil one, boil the other, mix it. But each maestro has their own secret, perfect recipe that they've learned from generations. I would want to see them cook it because after the movie Altered States, that was one of the trippiest parts when the guy was cooking up the shit. I want to see him cook it. You can't just pull it out of a fucking Tupperware container for me, man. I want to see you cook it. Actually, there's a video I posted on my blog kind of midway down on warriorpoet.us that has actually the maestro that I work with, and it shows some pictures of them boiling it with the big sticks. And it has like a big cast iron pot. Yeah, big pots.

25:44Two different pots brewing side by side, one with the leaf, I think, and one with the vine. And it takes a long-ass time, right? Yeah, it's not quick. It takes like 10 hours or something to make? Not quick. Okay, so they sit you down. How do they determine the dosage? Well, it's an eyeball test from the shaman. So we walk in. I have by far the fewest people with our group because people were scared of the dragon. Nice. So I had like 10 people. So we're going to a small hut in the secluded part of the jungle. So a long walk. my uh my fearless compatriots were kind of laughing and joking around and I I felt confident but I was very calm I knew I was going into some pretty intense work you know so um we get it we get in there and then you know they do some of the opening ceremony type of stuff and he has one candle and

26:28boom the generator hits caved up so all of us are faced like spokes of a wheel towards the center of the room and we all have a puke bucket kind of near us because you know most people purge during this process it's part of the healing process and then uh he calls us up one by one kind of looks you know looks at you assesses and then pours a coconut pours the ayahuasca in like a polished coconut husk and uh and you drink and it is it is thick and bitter and just tastes like earth and like fire like it's it's tough I mean it's it's tough to go down I mean it's very thick and did Did everyone drink it? Did anybody? Everyone did. Once you're in the ceremony, you've got to drink. No observers. No peeping toms on the action there. Does the shaman get in as well? He does. But he drinks kind of steadily throughout the thing. He doesn't, you know, he's kind of always drinking and always,

27:23because that's how he creates his, you know, his world that he's doing. So by creating his world, he's not just concocting the formula. He's also beating a drum and blowing tobacco smoke. What is he doing? 30 minutes, it was just silence in there. Then he starts what's called his Icaros. The Icaros are his songs. The songs that was taught to him by his grandfather. They trace it back grandfather to father. What does it sound like? Man, I couldn't do it. Duncan Trussell rolling down and do it. Let's pull one up. Can we pull one up or can we play audio? Yeah. What should I search for? It starts with... Icaros. How do you spell Icaros? I-C-A-R-O-S. Ayahuasca Icaros. Yeah. You know how to spell ayahuasca? A-Y-A-H-U-A-S-C-A. Yeah, I want to hear some of that shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, hold on a second. Get one of those and we'll play it on the background while he's talking.

28:22It'll be trippy as fuck. So this cat has his own separate Icaros and the other two gentlemen have their own. Yeah. And they have female shamans as well, right? Not here. They do, but not the ayahuasqueros and the vegetalistas. It's kind of a very paternalistic, you know, kind of heritage. But it's not completely a male-dominated thing. No, not at all. It's not like priests, right? No, no. Women can be shaman. And, you know, it's very, I mean, they worship higher than anything as the earth mother. So it just happens to seem that the men were the maestros in this case. There's female shamans for sure. They call them doñas maestras. And there was actually one in the group, but she wasn't an ayahuasquero. necessarily she was just a more general shaman but she was she was smart too and she was strong you got something there dude what are you doing would that be it

29:14oh let's hear it there's too many instruments in there obviously but they use just like a whistle in their voice it's like did you uh look up icaros that's just ayahuasca right put it that press you know enter right Copy that shit. And then write Icarus. I see. Yeah, that'll get you. A-R-O-S. Is that it? I see A-R-O-S? I see A-R-O-S, yeah. Let me hear some craziness. What? This is fucking... John Tesh presents the Peru... Live from Peru. John Tesh. Kenny G playing back. Maybe it was Icarus over that shitty music. Yeah, here's another one. Sounds more like it. That's legit. That bitch is in the jungle right now. That's any gross. My guy didn't sound like that. He was a lot more masculine. Yeah, that's it. So he only has, his tools are, he has his breath, which he uses more than anything. and then he has a kind of a branch with a bunch of leaves that he uses as sort of like a rattle.

30:36And those are his tools in his voice, in his whistling. And he also has some cinnamon sticks, which he chews at the end, but I'll get to that. This is tripping me out. It's been putting me back in. This is perfect. Good, good, good. I like it. I'm getting back there. You're going to change your name back to Chris. You're going to change your name. Okay, so how long does it take after you drink it? About 45 minutes, you start to feel people rustling, 30 to 45 minutes. It's hard. I mean, it's cave dark. You don't have a perfect perception of time. But 30 to 45 minutes, people start to rustle. It starts to activate. How big is this town? It's hot. Probably 20 foot in diameter. So it's tight, tight quarters for 10 people. So it starts going, and you start to get that energetic activation, same as you do on mushrooms or something, where you know something's about to happen.

31:22Your closed-eyed visuals start to splash with color and light and things like that. Your stomach starts to gurgle a little bit. So that was happening, and he started his Icarus. It starts slowly, kind of like it is now, whistling and building, building. And then in about an hour, you hear the first person just retch, like, rawr! And it's not like just a gentle bulimic-style vomit. This is like years of rot just pouring out of every organ that they have. And they're half yelling, half puking when they do it. And he's like, rawr! So it's not just the medicine coming up. There's like a sacrifice or an expelling. Yeah, you feel like squeezing bile and things out of your organs. I didn't puke until the second paradigm shifting session, but it either goes out, you vomit, or it finds another mode of evacuation. But you can feel it working on your inside. So a lot of people shit themselves too?

32:20Is that what you're saying? It wouldn't be, yeah. Do they get out of the tent or do they just shit themselves right there in the tent? Did you poop on the Israeli guy? He was in a different session, actually, that time, so I wasn't there. But anyway, so the first people start to purge. Okay. And then pretty soon after that. You smell farts. Yeah. It was just chaos erupted in the room. Like all my companions. Like one of the ladies just turned into a blithering child. Like, help me, help me, help me. Another person started pretending that he could sing the Egros, but it was like a kid that thinks he knows the words to a song. So he was like two beats off, and it was awful. and then another lady completely lost her internal monologue and this culminated throughout the night and her finally saying I can't tell if I shit my pants or if I didn't shit my pants like over and

33:07over again and I was like oh my god you know I mean this is so people I mean people who weren't ready cracked you know bad I mean that wasn't that's not the experience you're supposed to get you're supposed to keep it to yourself follow did it interfere with your thoughts though almost throw you off did a little bit I think I would start freaking out but it was it was too bad it annoying it was right so that part that part was rough in this first in this first session and then you know right as I'm starting to get you know get some serious visions lady next to me and I like shuddered and she puked all over my socks so they pitch black and I'm peeling off the wet chunky wool from my feet and put them inside and just curl back up on my mat no way to clean it it's fucking pitch black in the middle of ceremony starting to trip balls so that was that was the

33:52start of it. And it's kind of signatory for the way the rest of the night went because it was intense and dark. And, you know, what started happening is snakes started coming in through the jungle. I had visions of snakes and they would look at me and then immediately start savagely like going inside my body and like eating my organs, eating my throat, like going down my throat and eating their way out and like exploding through my body. And I know enough from psychedelic experience is to just witness and allow and just let it happen you know because if you try and fight it you're fucked you're fucked you can't that is the the number one reason why people have bad trips yeah they try to control the experience but did you think these snakes were real or did you know they were kind of like oh this one I was I was cool with this at this point and then it switched

34:39what yeah you're cool with this thing blasting I kind of knew I kind of knew that the vine and death was going to take me there I had a feeling okay well explain these snakes do they look like real snakes or do you know you really like that's a fucking real snake I'm actually getting eaten by a jungle snake right now no they were more like um they were a bit ephemeral you know they would change too much in color and the way that they would come was not necessarily slithering on the ground they were coming from the air and they all had top hats on what did they look like a lot of them a lot of them were were kind of white they were they looked actually more like boas or kind or like anacondas not not as much like domestic snakes that we'd find out here but they had that kind of jungle pattern but they would you know the colors were off they were not they were either

35:19too colorful or they're white they weren't like jungle colors but they were that shape and that size of these things um so that like you're tuning into it but not totally correctly like as if you're on a station and the colors are all off and the fucking the cop outfit is white instead of blue It's like skin is blue instead of white. Yeah, exactly. So that was going on. And then after I got used to that, then it switched. And I kept sliding down these binds of thorns that were just ripping me up to pieces again. All of these images were just total destruction of the flesh. And are you feeling anything while this is happening? You're kind of a passive observer of your body. So are you seeing it in a third person? Are you outside of your body? Yeah, about two feet outside of your body as you're watching this happen to you. So you're like looking down on it?

36:13Yeah, kind of like up here on your shoulder a bit. And just destruction. Destruction. And I remember thinking to myself, because I was naked when this was happening, I was like, why did I have to be naked in this thing? But that's just the way it was. It was just me, naked, flesh, just getting torn, sliding down his mind. And what are you seeing? Are you seeing blood and injuries? Yeah, you do. You see it all. I mean, just liquid pouring out of your body. It's just complete destruction of the physical form. And then from there, insects would burrow into my body and explode. And spiders and things would go. And really, that was not so bad, actually. That was kind of the good part. But what ayahuasca will do is it will find your own weaknesses and then use them to fuck with you. It's like when you're at the final level of a video game, and it's like, no, you must fight yourself.

37:03That's what it felt like. So it started preying on my own fears. And I heard a voice telling me exactly what I was scared of, which is, you know, some some illness. My family's had some lymphoma issues or something like that. So it basically said, you're going to die of cancer. You know, say your goodbyes. You're fucking done. You got it now. It's bad. You know, and it was telling me that. And that actually started to shake me a little bit, you know, because I've never had it work against work myself, work against me in that kind of magnitude. You know, I've had visions of things before that were dark and I always worked through and, you know, I ended up feeling good. But that was a more challenging experience.

37:39And then at a certain point, you know, I had to just apply the same philosophy and say, you know what, if this is the end, I'm going to have a fucking hell of a six months, you know, and I'm going to do everything I can and enjoy my life. And and then, boom, that ended. And then finally, at that point, I was able to get a sense of peace. and I felt myself getting sucked back down into the earth. Kind of like in the, the only thing I can describe is that movie Avatar. You know, when the little fibers grow up around the body and it like connects it back down to the earth. I felt this deep relaxation just like right back down into the earth. And then, you know, that was kind of the end. That was the climax of this first experience for me. Did you get a sense that it was a purposeful trip? That the reason why it takes you on this destruction of your body

38:27and the snakes and everything like that, is it supposed to scare the fuck out of you to break you down? It's supposed to. It's a death-rebirth motif, really, is what it is. And, you know, that was the idea of the medicine in the night. Each night the medicine had a theme. And the first night it was anaconda medicine, snake medicine, which is shedding your skin in one piece. So like a snake does, a snake sheds his skin all in one piece. This was about shedding everything that you don't need, your fears, your weaknesses, all of that. And that's why you explore it. And I think part of the intent of what the shaman was doing, which meanwhile, by the way, is Icaros were growing in intensity. And it was like the room was swirling with a voice. Does he have a CD, like a mixtape? I would love to see that. He has a YouTube video. I bought some. I bought some Icaros online once.

39:10And I listened to it for five minutes. I wasn't high enough. And I shut it off. Yeah. He has a website? He does. He does. He has a YouTube video. Does he have a website? What's his website? Oh, man. I couldn't tell. It's in Spanish, you know, so I can't recall it off the top of my head. Maestro Orlando Chuhandama. How do I spell the last name? C-U-H-U, sorry. C-H-U. J-A-N. J-A-N. D-A-M-A. And it's also, Brian, if you bring it up on my blog, you can probably get the direct link. Discovery of the Eight Dimension. Yeah, that's me. That's me. That is you. Yeah. Is this a video that you made? That was a video I made. I'll tell you about that. That was my second trip. Oh, this is while you were in there? Oh, dude, you have video? Yeah. Okay, go to Warrior Poet US on YouTube and check out this video. That's hilarious. You're the number one hit on this guy's name.

40:05It's you in the tent tripping your balls off. Yeah, this is the second session. You look terrified. It takes me a while to get into it. Don't jump to that video until I get to the part of the story. Let's not play that video. I want to hear all this shit. So, yeah, so that first experience. So after he comes by, the shaman comes by. He asks me, you know, como estas? I say, you know, I managed to muster something like bien muerto. I told him I was dead and good and dead. And he just laughed and kind of that was, I think, when we, you know, he started to kind of give me a little bit of respect because the rest of the room was just crushed. You know, but I was crushed, too. But at least, you know, I was able to sit up and kind of deal with it a little bit. So he brings me over to where he's at, and he starts chewing up some cinnamon.

40:58And it's the final closing ceremony, the cleansing ritual. And he has me open the back of my shirt, and he goes, shoo, with the cinnamon. And the instant he did that, it was like I was on a bungee cord. And this is six hours after I'd taken it. The peak of my trip was completely done. And I just went straight up and right into this world of just pure energetic vibration that I had no idea how to decode. It was something completely foreign to anything I've ever seen. What did he do with the cinnamon? So he chews it up. He's like cinnamon sticks, dried cinnamon. Right. And then he blows his breath. He goes, and forms like a little sonic missile thing. And he points it at different parts of your, different parts of your, like the back of your neck, top of your head. So he did it four times. And each time he did it, I had like 10 seconds swimming in this world

41:47that just I had no possible chance to decode. and it was unbelievable. I was like, what the hell is this? Where am I? How do I understand it? What does it mean? You know, like the YouTube video. But it was wild on that closing part of the ceremony. So what did it mean? You can't decode it. Can you describe it? It was like a geometrical city of light and vibration. But it was like looking at, imagine if you didn't know anything about computer code and you looked at the matrix, right? And all you saw were ones and zeros. Right now we know, oh, that's computer code. It's source code. It was like that kind of information was coming to me. But I just, you know, I didn't know. Well, that sounds like the DMT trip. Yeah. So you have a flash. You have a DMT flash. So like in deep into another. I mean, he's blowing cinnamon on you and that's what causes that? Yeah.

42:33I don't know if the cinnamon is just to make his breath pleasant and it's his intent or whether it actually has some part of it. Or it's to distract you while some guy has a needle in the back of your neck that's just jamming it. Before he lobotomizes it. No, but it was, you know, whatever he did in that closing part of it, I felt like it opened a breach in something else, a different place. For 10 seconds. For 10 seconds, then sucked back. As soon as that was over, I was right back. You know, it wouldn't last. Okay, so this is day one. Day one. So then do you get up in the morning? Do you go to bed? Go to bed, yeah. Do you wash off? Do you puke? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I went, you know, took care of everything in the dark of my hut. In the dark? Yeah, cold and dark, yeah. There's no light at all? No light at all.

43:15candles now we're using our phones and flashlights and do you have a charger for your phone um three hours a day you can charge it for three hours a day yeah so you're using but you don't get any service so it's just a flashlight a little flashlight expensive iphone flashlight all right so you wash yourself off yeah crash out and can you sleep I did yeah are you fucking freaking out while you're sleeping or you slept good I felt pretty good you know after that final thing where I was able to relax and felt sucked back into the earth, I felt good. I felt like I'd learned the de-importance of the physical realm. Now the next day at breakfast, did people apologize for throwing up on each other? Yeah, some people were still pretty shook. The people in my group were pretty shook. A lot of them didn't go back. Some of them didn't do it again the whole trip. Really? Yeah.

44:02I mean, they fought it. They fought the whole time. And if you fight the whole time, you never release from it. You don't work through it. It's like you get brought to the heat of the battle, and then you just ignore it and shut your eyes, and it goes away, but it sticks with you. And that's one thing, a caution for doing any kind of psychedelic work is you've got to work through it. So for her, it was a very – she just had very repetitive visions. I was surprised that it didn't take her deeper, but she was working with some of the lighter doses and the lighter shamans. and they could tell that she was, the way that they dose you is pretty smart usually. They try and dose you to what they think you can handle. But she was great. It seems to me that just jumping right into an ayahuasca trip without any previous psychedelic experience

44:49is like taking no martial arts classes and fighting in the UFC. It just seems ridiculous. Wouldn't you want to build your way up slowly, smoke some salvia, eat a brownie, slowly dip your legs into the river that is the psychedelic experience? Because the ayahuasca experience and the DMT experience is supposed to be the two most powerful that you can ever have back-to-back. One being a bit more on the spiritual side, the ayahuasca, that it's supposedly because it's longer and not as intense that it sort of connects you in a way that you can interpret better than the DMT flash. The DMT flash a lot of times is so mind-bogglingly alien that there's no words for it. You come back with a lot of confusion. There's some message in it somewhere, but it takes a while to decode. I talk to them about smoking DMT as well, and I'll get to that when I get –

45:41I kind of have to set up kind of the paradigm first, and then I'll tell you what they said about smoking DMT versus taking ayahuasca. So did you go right back in the second day? Second day, no. Second day, I just rested, wrote in my journal, made sure to kind of digest what I'd gone through. It's very energetically taxing, but I felt fucking great. Like I felt reborn, like energetic. I slept five hours, and I was just pumped. Like I got a good workout in and I felt more alive than I have been in a long time. It was rad. Like I felt my body felt great. My mind felt great. My spirit felt great. I felt like I learned some valuable lessons about, you know, the D importance of the physical realm. And I feel like I conquered some deep fears about cancer and shit that was going on. Like it was it. Like I'm not worried about that anymore. Like it took me there to overcome it.

46:27And, you know, really that first night for me was, you know, I call it my death. It was like the old parts of me that night died. You know, anything weak was killed off by the ayahuasca. But it's funny you said that, you know, the UFC analogy I wrote in my blog. It was like it was like I was kind of with a bunch of karate black belts. And, you know, they took ayahuasca and just got punched in the face. What the hell is going on here? You know, they didn't really you know, they had the training, but it's different when you're in a street fight. You know, and that's that's kind of what it was. I didn't have the training, but I've been in a few brawls in my day. So I think that that ends up being a bit more important as far as being able to handle the experience.

47:08But then, you know, at another point, the second night, I wish I did have some of their training because I got an opportunity to do some cool shit, but I just didn't know what to do. So what happened? So that's the second session. I go up to them. This is the third day. Slightly more comfortable room. The people who from the first session, a lot of them ducked out, you know, but there was new people who like wanted a strong. experience so his legend started to spread in the camp so we had a few more people probably 15 um and I went up to him beforehand and I said you know maestro I said uh medicina fuerte like emphasize fuerte like I wanted a strong dose and he looks at me and he smiled and he remembered that I handled the last one pretty well so when it was my turn to go up he fills the cup to the brim

47:48like to the brim and uh you know I look at it and set my intent my intent was to see how far I could go. Like I wanted to go back to that place he showed me at the end of the session. And I wanted to experience joy and happiness and that side of life, the opposite side, and just see where it could take me. And that was really my goal in doing that. And I picked up some tips from some of the other shamans about how to set kind of your own spiritual armor and kind of prevent things from interfering and taking you off your intent. So I was like, I felt well equipped, drank the full cup, three gulps, pretty brutal again. And then, then it starts. And it starts, you know kind of similarly as usual um you know an hour in visions things that I remember you know kind of like a psychic most psychedelic trips are like ah I gotta remember that that's a good lesson

48:34you know take little gems from the visions you see things like that uh at some point some eels came out of the water and they started coming after me and it was much like the snakes and I looked at the eels and uh I you know was able to kind of mentally stop them with the armor which is a trick you know opening your witter kocha it's called um and I was like ah sweet they stopped and I was like what's up Eels like this is not the day for killing me and I just told them that and they like looked at me and they're like yeah okay I'll believe you and just bounced and I was like sweet like I'm not gonna die today like that's awesome so they leave and what does it leave you with so then where are you yeah so then from there then from there things um things got that's when things got started to get crazy like immediately the sensation of my head just peeling off the top

49:22of my head happens and joe I've been in fucking a lot of situations and done some shit nothing nothing nothing could compare to how this felt it felt like every cell and neuron in my brain was completely synced in perfect alignment and glowing radioactive and I had no top of my head on it was like wow wow I mean it was unreal as foreign to me as any sensation and it was a physical sensation it wasn't a mental sensation I could physically feel my brain like alive from back from my brain stem all the way to the frontal lobe like every part of it was full and I was like oh shit like something's happening here like this is new like this is a new ball game right what happened from then so from then um right after that happened um you know I started to feel really fucking good like really good and and I was looking around the room and people were vomiting

50:16and lots of you know chaos had started around the room but I felt it all as like a kind of like just a cleanse you know like I had a different perspective on it so each one would bring me more like happiness until finally it reached this ecstatic state which was about 10 minutes of just pure straight ecstasy like every cell of my body felt better than it ever had before it was like the exact reason why we were given physical forms was to experience some kind of pleasure like this The only thing I compare it to, and every time I make this analogy, people ask if I nutted my pants, which I didn't. But it felt like that moment of orgasm stretched for like five minutes, ten minutes. Like I didn't know whether to yell. It was like so crazy, intensely bodily good to feel that. And then, you know, so I experienced that, and that was rad.

51:05I was like, you know, that would have been enough right there. But then it just continued to build. And so what happened next is this giant organic flotilla of like snakes and feathers comes, kind of like an organic mothership comes. And it hovers over my head. And this is full open-eyed visuals, right? How big is this? Oh, man. It was probably 30 yards, 40 yards big. 30 yards. Yeah, it was big. It was a massive. It's feathers and snakes? Feathers and snakes, and it's living. It's like a living mothership, right? and it starts sucking black smoke out of my body and I see it coming out. I was like, oh, well, I guess I didn't need that. I was like, okay, take it. You know, like, cool. And it didn't have any physical sensation, but I could see it coming out of my body. It came out of my throat, came out of my head, came out of different parts.

51:57I guess you could correspond them to the chakras where they were coming out. But just peeling out of my body, I was like, whoa, that's pretty cool. And then it just floats off when the smoke started to die off. and then right on its heels another mothership comes and this mothership is metallic and it has all kinds of crazy cryptic writing on it like stargate sgi type of writing that's the only thing I can compare your eyes are open when you're seeing this yeah fully and how does it look real can you see through it does it look like an illusion no you can't see through it you couldn't I couldn't see anything else really honestly I it was it was black around it I my memory of it is that I could just see that and that was it. I think if I tried to focus back on my own reality, I could see some shit in the room. But then that's all I could see. It was black and it was a ship.

52:47And that was the only thing I was focused on. So it looked like an alien spacecraft. Independence Day style. Fully, yeah, exactly. Very much like that. Very much like a ship. Not quite that big. And there's writing on it? Something. It wasn't just smooth. You know what I mean? It wasn't like a smooth thing. It was either writing or a very cool design. I don't know. I mean, I had no hope to read it or anything. But so then it and then it starts shooting this light at me. And this was one of the craziest things. Like, as soon as the light comes, I like lift my head up like this, and open open, like put the put my tongue on the roof of my mouth. And the light starts coming in underneath my tongue. And I don't know why I did I have no fucking clue why I did that. But I did it. And that's what I needed to do. And I was just started

53:31doing it I was like breathing in this light it was like I was getting uploaded some kind of information again no physical sensation but I'm just you know just breathing in you know breathing in this white light that's being uploaded into me and then I was like whoa this is fucking crazy you know and I couldn't believe that I knew that that was what I was supposed to do and but I just did it and then then the light stops boom retracts ship goes away and then that at that point everything just blew out like I saw the room again and then the room just goes blows out into infinity and just complete infinity around me now there's a couple things in infinity there's the shaman who's like jutted out on a precipice who's going pretty hard with his icaros now um and then there's like some terraforma what was his handling oh man if you listen to his video

54:24He sings it a little bit, but I wish I could get you some. But it's... Are there words or is it just noises? Sometimes there is. Some it's like... You know, sometimes they'll sing some things like that. So that's kind of a flavor. Obviously, I have a terrible voice. He didn't have a great voice either, but it was powerful. You know what I mean? It's not like he was a singer. right it was just coming out and he was shaking his you know shaking his leaves but he's jutted up on this precipice and that was at three o'clock in my line of vision nine o'clock there's some kind of terraforma and kind of universal stars and but it was like boom like everything everything else was completely gone everything else I could see kind of vague outlines in white light you just got a software update yeah for sure but this is the fucking this is another crazy factor I would

55:19turn my head to the left, you know, turn my head 90 degrees. And still the shaman's at three o'clock, the terraform is at nine o'clock. It did not matter which way I turned my head, I could lie down, I could go left, I could go right, didn't matter. My vision was stuck in the same spot. It's like any movements I made in the third dimension had absolutely no impact of what I was seeing in the eighth dimension. Like I guess if I wanted to look around in that dimension, the wise of the eighth. All right, so I'll get to that. Sorry about that. But that's that's that was what I encountered. That's, that's the paradigm they used at the end of it. They call, you know, they call where I was at that point, the eighth dimension. And the reason why is, that's the penultimate dimension. That's the last one before the ninth, which is

56:04oneness with all creation, which is just, you know, unification with, with all life, all creation that ever was, that ever will be pure solidarity with, with, with God, with the universe, whatever you want. Is that supposed to be what you're hitting when he blows the cinnamon smoke on you? No. So that was actually the seventh dimension is what they were going. But to go back to where I was there, I'll explain the paradigm as they see it. They give you a map of each dimension? They do afterwards. Tourist guards? Afterwards. So yeah, so at that point, no visions were coming. Nothing was happening to me at all. And I was completely lucid. So I was like, all right, what can I do? And I was thinking like, well, what would I want to do? I was like, well, I got a friend who got in a car wreck. I was like,

56:45I wonder how he's doing and he's in Atlanta and so I was like I wonder how he's doing boom I see him and he's in like a bar or a restaurant I'm like oh snap like he just came immediately it didn't have to travel like I could see him right there and he's laughing talking with friends I was like well it looks like he's okay but I wonder if he really is and I was able to like look in his body and I see this like bad energetic something like this black part of in his rib cage and I was like oh that's that's no good and I was like I wonder if I can get rid of that and I was like, and I focused on pushing like white, the golden light into his body. And I was like, fills his body and pushes this little missile out of his ribs. And I was like, oh shit. Like, I don't know if that actually helped him, but that was pretty rad that I was able to do it. You know, I didn't know.

57:30Did you ever call him up afterwards? I couldn't call. There's no, there's no cell phone, but I talked to him later. Yeah. I talked to him later. He doesn't remember like the exact moment, but he said right around then, yeah, he started feeling way better, you know? So, um what was wrong with him before that I just you know he had a bad impact got t-boned with some lady coming off the off the freeway hit the steering wheel hit his head so he felt better out of nowhere did you ask him hey man you ever been in a bar and then all of a sudden you feel better or did you say hey I did some freaky voodoo on you did you put the power of suggestion in his mind I mean you sadly the next time I talked to him I was fucking hammered so I think we just got right into it. It wasn't like I... You got to dance around that one. I know. Find out the real

58:14evidence. I know. So next time, next time I'll do that. But we, you know, he just breezed into town and I was like, yo, I'm just back from Peru. But anyway, so I didn't get the proper scientific explanation, but some loose correlation with how it worked. Okay. But more concrete, you know, evidence on myself. I was like, all right, well, if I do that to him, what about myself? and I started scanning my body with my with my hands in my mind and it was like a car mechanic looking at the car like I was completely detached from it I was like oh that's pretty good like I did a pretty good job here like that's not bad like this vessel's pretty good and I was just giving it like a 10-point inspection and you know my glands that have always been swollen I was like ah there's something not quite right there so I like went and I like physically like started pulling

58:58out of out of my glands I was like well maybe I can pull what's bad out of there and I felt like I did and I felt like it stuck to my fingers and I'm like shaking my fingers like ah get it off I didn't know how to get it off so I like shake it and some of it falls off and then I put it in the ground and some of it like drips off and I was like oh it's still not working so I had a water then and I poured it on my fingers and that seemed to work um you know who knows who knows about that but since then I haven't gotten like my glands have not been swollen at all and I've gotten like Epstein-Barr virus that always like has them a little bit swollen but not even a bit since then So I don't know. Now, thank God you weren't just ripping your face off at that time, by the way. I was so lucid, man. I was so lucid, like anything I thought of. And then I was like, well, what about business?

59:43Yeah, but listen to what you just said. You said, I was so lucid, but I was pulling my glands out. Yeah, I was ripping my glands out. Rubbing it off of the dirt. It's weird, right? Shooting lung missiles out of your friend. When you hear stuff like this, when you hear yourself say it, whose phone is that? Someone's got their phone right next to the thing. Anyway, you hear that shit, that feedback? That's a phone next to something. Anyway, when you hear yourself saying this, and you hear yourself describing it, surely part of you must think how preposterous and ridiculous this must sound to a skeptical person. Sure. Like, you know, a skeptical, no-nonsense, sort of a fucking Goldwater Republican listening to this faggot shit. Yeah. You know, you listen to this ridiculous nonsense, these fucking pussy kids. You want to find yourself, huh? Yeah. You want to find yourself? Yeah, yeah.

60:31go off to the fucking jungle and take drugs that's how you find yourself I mean you must think this is like the main thing that people would criticize if they would hear about people trying to find themselves with drugs yeah this fucking idiot thinks he's pulling cancer out of his glands yeah you know it sounds crazy but if you can control your mind if you are what your mind believes it is then if he thinks he's he's cleaning out his body, his brain will think he's cleaning out his body and it might actually have something to it, you know, like positive thinking. Or it's actually happening. I mean, either way, I mean, I was there and I have to report it on it. Right. You know, I feel like that's my, that's my mission to come back. And I feel like it's one of the reasons why it happened to me. So I could talk about it and, you know, talk to you guys and get, get it out there. But

61:22the next thing I did was, um, was I looked at my business and very lucidly looked at all my marketing channels and different things. Thought about AlphaBrain, thought about the different things, thought about, you know, very, very conservative Republican type thinking about my life and my business. And I saw some channels that I was working hard to produce. And I was like, there's no resources there. And I could physically visualize, you know, where there was pools and these tubes that were feeding like a giant machine. I was like, well, I'm trying to build this tube to this pool of resources, but there's nothing there. Like, I got to cut that one off. I was like, this one is good, but it's blocked. They've got to change that, change the marketing, change something on that. Or think about this formula or that, and I could visualize it perfectly. And right now, business is going great.

62:10So you saw it in metaphors. You saw it in a different sense than you saw it as here's a product, here's the marketing. Instead of that, you saw it as almost like energy. Yeah, just something. It was like feeding a machine, like gas, fuel. energy. Now do you have any idea did you talk to like the other people were they also doing the same things or were other people like dude I saw dancing bears. Now I know why your microphone is so much louder than everybody else's. You suck on that thing dude. You get up in here like this back off a little. Everybody else is talking like this. So was other people like just like seeing dancing bears and they're like you know. A lot of people yeah aquariums they were seeing their own demons or spirits or different things. Did you guys have shared visions? No. No shared visions. You know, that's one of the things that when they first discovered it, they,

63:00they, when they started bringing it back to the Western world, they tried to call it telepathine because, because of shared experiences, but because of the rules of scientific rules of nomenclature, because they isolated the compound as harming already, one of the compounds, they, they went with that because it was the first description of it, but they were going to call telepathine because of the shared experiences but you didn't have any of that there were some like husband and wife couples in different huts that did that were witnessing one would just witness the other's entire experience and be like they would try and talk to each other about it and be like yeah I know I saw the whole thing so that happened but as far as like the group in my setting it seemed to be more closely linked to um family you know family ties or relationship romantic

63:47ties, things like that, not necessarily what. So the shared experiences are with people that already have a relationship. That's what seemed to be happening in this trip. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. You're already tuned in together. You're already, well, you know, there's that feeling always when you're in a relationship that you become a part of that person. You know, I mean, I think every deep, intense relationship that I've ever had, you feel like it's more than just two people hanging out together. Somehow or another, you connect on some, I don't want to say spiritual energy, some sort of intangible level, which is why breaking up is so painful. Yeah. Because a part of you is literally missing. You cannot feel whole. You can't sleep. You can't eat. You don't feel right because some of you is missing.

64:30So that would kind of make sense that those are the type of people that would have a shared experience because they literally have their souls are somehow or another connected. They have some sort of an inexorable bond. And that's what played itself out. So you didn't have any experiences with your mom? Your mom only did it once? No, she did it three times. She did it three times? She did it three times. Did she do it with you with the dragon? She was actually in that room that time. And she said she didn't see what I saw. I mean, it wasn't.