Alex & Allyson Grey

00:02and we're live you don't have headphones I don't over there oh there you go Alex and Al and gray hello how are you guys great Joe I think you got to turn that sucker around and see that one there you go nope oh my goodness this is Joey Diaz part two remember when Joey Diaz couldn't figure out the headphones welcome folks what's going on we are in the middle of uh building anthon I've I've heard yeah that's the rumor the thing that you got us uh kicked off on really the last time that we uh spoke to you we were doing a Kickstarter campaign to build antheon it was like three years ago and we're in the middle of another one because we started building it and we need a little more money to finish the interior now we've got a three-story 12,00 000 squ foot building with a new roof and incredible uh spaces to exhibit Visionary art so it's it's there and I guess it's just a matter of time uh

01:13about finishing it uh the more money we get the quicker we'll be able to finish it are there images of it right now currently in in construction that people can view oh look at that Jamie on whoa that's amazing where did you get that looks like really old brick that's cool look brick 1882 was built in we we we're saving the carriage house from 1882 so explain the process so it started out as a Carriage House yep and you save part of it yes we surrounded it wow oh so you surrounded it with art it's inside the building whoa Jamie scroll back up hold on don't go anywhere get back up to the top one that you yeah look at that wow that's that's just one room on the third floor that's where the sacred mirrors are going there's three floors yeah we're going to put criss cross kind of scaff uh lattice across the Angels um let's see on my Instagram I suppose there's a more recent feed of

02:14the uh interior now we've got a couple of the actual Angels there were 10 angels in the previous um Chapel installation there in the New York City and I always wanted to he went to the wrong Alex Gray went to some we're we're yeah yeah that's relevant isn't it it is it is well let's see so there's a space there's one of the Angels over there that's a uh yeah wow this this is the planned Corner one of the uh angels of the Four Corners that uh the direction of the building that we're kind of recycling the carriage house has the corners of the buildings pointing in the cardinal directions so I thought that a feature of them there will be angels of the north south east west and part of the whole thing is getting the four quadrants together on top of the building there's a steeple head that is basically a four-faced being that that uh is the people of the four uh

03:25directions coming together in Visionary Oneness so it's as a building it's a big basically godhead and um is that a real image of the actual outside of the building with an angel on it no that's that's up yeah that's the computer uh model that was made by one of the Disney animators uh Ryan toddle he's a guy that is responsible uh for running the uh one of the digital animation teams that did zootopia and Frozen he's an amazing uh modeler go back to that Jimmy look at this outside of this building that might be the coolest looking building on the planet Earth go up a little bit and you'll see uh one of the coolest things about the video that uh is in there is that it shows a kind of spin around of the uh building itself that was done by these amazing um there's the that's from the front so you've got a kind of evolutionary thing going going on on the

04:31sides oh yeah and then it gets to the uh the front door which is Adam and Eve uh creating a better world so it kind of brings together those mythologies of uh those narratives of uh development can you can you zoom in on the Adam and Eve Jamie is it a as Zoom as it is gu is that a caducus in in the middle of them let's see actually down below uh way down below there's a um there there you get to see oh wow so you really did the caducus and then sort of replicated the DNA which a lot of people believe was what the caduceus was based on in the first place right mhm it's all growing out of some mushrooms there at the base Alex did the drawing wow and then it was sculpted in teak W full size 4 by8 foot doors there's two of them and then we had it scanned we got a grant to have it scanned and then it'll be on the door in metal so it'll be cast in metal The Originals will be on view inside cuz

05:39they're made of teak they're so precious W so it's what kind of metals it going to be cast in bronze I'm hoping oo wow that is so cool yeah and so what is going on with the evolution think so the Evol there's the the lower hominids they become Homo erectus and then and what is that child like thing with the arms up in the air well I wanted to uh thanks for noticing that um on the end of this paintbrush which is kind of flying up and indicating a kind of upward uh trajectory uh there's a drip coming off of it and it the drip also looks like an eyeball the center of the eyeball is the Earth and uh there's a skeleton a child and the person who's fully grown woman and man on either side and they each are reaching for the planet now the question is who's going to get the ball basically the skeleton or the human yeah will will we be handing this to the Next

06:51Generation or are we just going to blow it so the skeleton sort of represents death yeah it represents the end of the line for the human species for anybody's not I didn't even introduce your page the Instagram page is what is it is it great c m this is uh build anon.com this is the um uh Kickstarter then how long has it been going on for now let's say about 20 days we're halfway there we have a 40-day campaign we're about three times where we were last we did this uh campaign the same length the same days three years years ago in 2013 and we're three times ahead of where we were and we we we actually um well we did 60% of our goal the last time so we're we're you know we're challenging ourselves to even higher what I meant was uh how long has it been under construction how longr it's been uh since September of uh 20 15 okay so year year or so yeah year

07:58and a bit m um so what is the ultimate end date where you believe this all be constructed well it really depends on the money that we raised to do the exterior the interior we're going to have done by 2017 um and we're aiming at the um winter uh of 2017 it should be doable you know everybody tell us this is the interior will'll open the exhibition and then we'll see you know knows I mean there's there's indications that you know like you don't know how money money is going to come in this campaign is only to finish the exhibition interiorly and then uh you know if we still which I think we will need to raise another $1.5 million to do the sculptural exterior which is done by uh 3D printout it's a 3D printout 20 ft High by 8 by8 and what is the substance it's made of well it'll be finished in uh glass reinforced cast concrete but you print out the foam then

09:05you make the mold you make a fiberglass mold there's about a couple dozen molds that will be needed to do the sculptures and there's a place right across the river from us 30 minutes away that does this so well that's convenient oh yeah we were thinking coming to California there are places that do it out here but uh we found a place so close and they're doing the Brooklyn Academy of Music and some of the big buildings in the city has anybody done anything even remotely like this well you'll see theme parks where things are but the glass reinforced cast concrete will make it enduring you know like it it'll be if they don't knock it down with a wrecking ball it'll be there in a thousand years that's this the building itself is a tomb I mean it's it's it's made to be uh enduring that's our mission so the mission is to have this thing survive you the mission is to build an enduring

10:04Sanctuary a Visionary art to uplift a global Community that's our actual mission do you guys have a caretaker when you pass have you already thought of like when you move on to the next Dimension who's going to take over this thing it's a church so it became a church in 2008 and so the church a church is generally uh run by the its board and the staff that works there but you know the board of directors are the people that own the church we actually live there but our house that we built there will be belong to the church everything we're doing there will belong to the church it's a 40 acre compound basically in the Hudson Valley and uh that's that's where it's happening there's 21 people working there now wow I trust you guys with the church I know I don't trust a whole lot of people in the church I go yeah they're not gonna they're not gonna get crazy but

10:59what I would worry about if I was establishing a church is not me I would worry about what people are going to distort the message afterwards oh yeah that's always the real issue the real issue is whenever you have something that you're going to call a church or a religion or you have a sacred area where you take it very very seriously you're going to have at least one person who has an elevated profile you know there's going to be one person or people who run this thing that other people going to look at like they're different than us they are elevated they are the people that are in charge of this and when people have that feeling that they feel like they're the elevated one God that gets tricky it's so slippery it's so hard for people to manage here's one of the ways that we try to avoid it cuz we never claim to be enlightened ourselves you know we're

11:50artist that's why I trust you yeah well we're we're we're creative artists and like a lot of artists we feel like when we're really doing our thing that there's a spiritual element of that that your creativity and spirituality somehow seem like they're very strongly connected there isn't any mythology about it know if we're basically emanations of a cosmos that's creative then we're little embodiments of Creative Energy and that Creative Energy can be used for the positive the negative in how you and it comes from the way that you view the world how you're going to take that and so as an emanation of Creative Energy an artist is just a you know like an obvious symbol of that and and uh so we see that throughout history that all the religions whether they agreed or disagreed all used creative expression to get their message out and and so it's one of the things that unites all the

13:03different wisdom traditions and unites a lot of other stuff that's out that would consider itself outside of religion as well I feel that creativity itself is the original kind of religious impulse that it's the way of knowing oneself the way of knowing god it's a it's a means of worship I mean we look at the the cave art and you say you know they weren't talking about sects or something or disagreeing necessarily as like religious kind of ideas and things like that they were making a mark of meaning and left behind something that was meaningful to their tribe and I think that that's still what we're trying to do and you know I I think religion cuz it scares the out of really intelligent people uh for good reason because it's such a mess in the world and created such a mess and so much divisiveness something that's supposed to be about love that's caused you know so much heartache and

14:15damage and so and what I think is that when I told my friend uh Robert Jesse um from the Council on spiritual practices well I'm spiritual but I'm not religious you know he saying well you know Alex we can't let the fundamentalists own the word religion religion is too important a word and what we need are courageous experiments in religion that could uh help us to get to the other side of the bell curve The evolutionary Edge is there an evolving Edge for religion could we get post secular in the world can we imagine a world where people of most of the people of the world have taken a sacrament of one kind or another and have realized that there's an infinite intelligence at the basis of the cosmos that they are a you know an expression of and that and that life is a Divine um display a spectacle you know that that God's gone to a lot of trouble to create

15:36and uh so you know from the perspective of uh today what you know because Toby when he was writing about civilizations talked about you know every civilization needs a spiritual core and as a planetary civilization you can't have one religion dominate it's impossible it's just not it's not possible and so how do you unite a world uh spiritually well my candidate is create the creative arts you know that all the world cultures have some means of creative expression we get to know that culture uh through their music through their you know painting sculpture various kinds of things and that's how we uh uh get to know each other and see our connections MH you know and so as a potential you know something that's been used by all world religions you know and something that as a de facto for the people who don't believe in God anymore many of them still believe that artists

16:55are trying to do something authentic and truthful to their to their inner being isn't the word religion fairly loaded though and isn't what's important the idea behind what you're trying to do right the idea is you're trying to make this sacred place you're trying to make this amazing place where people can go and see expression and see you know the the the purity of your Creative Vision what why why connect that to a loaded word I because it's as uh Jesse said in my book I think it's it's too easy um to run away from that it's uh it you know how a a bad neighborhood gets you know and it's just like oh my God there's only criminals who live here MH and then some artists show up you know and they start having their Studios and various things like that that and sooner or later a really beat up neighborhood will start to have some Vitality cuz Cafe moves in Creative

18:08Creative Energy starts to infiltrate into destructive energy what I'm saying is if the artists would move back into the world of religion we might clean up the neighborhood a little you know and make it U more habitable for people to want to look at their relationship with Spirit through even the lens of religion but why why religion though cuz religion is associated in most people's minds with deities Rel religion is associated in most people's minds with ancient Traditions ancient Traditions that often times stifle your behavior tell you what to do control you and offer horrendous consequences for not complying that's what a lot of people think of when they think of the word religion so but you have this thing but but let me get to this real quick you have this thing this beautiful thing like why even put a name to it why why label it and when you're

19:07labeling it you're connecting it with all these other religions that are so problematic and you're going to have to explain your way out of that why do that instead of just have this amazing Center um because I feel that we're intimately connected with whatever that religious impulse and if you look at the what is the primary religious experience that is a mystical experience religio to reconnect to connect up to link back is that what the word mean yes to relink to reconnect to what the self to God the self and God so that that's the actual origin of the word religion religio is is it a Latin word uh and French French and it's to reconnect so the idea being that the the religion or these churches were set up so that people could reconnect with God so they go about their day they they were filled with troubles and strife and all sorts of stress and they can go back to the

20:12church and they can reconnect with God through religion if if you go to Egypt or you go to uh India you just came back from Venice you go to some of these gorgeous Cathedrals that are a thousand years old you go to these pilgrim AG places and there is tremendous power because a lot of people invested a lot of love energy into a center and they built a shrine to whatever they believed that Spirit to be and that is part of a long tradition of a connectedness with a you know their lens into the infinite you know whatever religion you're looking through iconic an ionic yes they a hell of a lot of trouble when you get to the secondary uh religious uh you know experience which is everything else that you think about religion the primary religious experience every religion started with a mystical experience and people are having those on acid every day now you know and so

21:28what do you disconnect from that whole tradition where people were connecting to the infinite before you say this has nothing to do with that you know or do you say hey religion's up but what if we reimagine it what if we reimagine God you know and can't can't we do it and say this has a lot of a lot going for it this quest for the infinite absolute mystery that's at the core of our being and the core of the cosmos this quest to know that it leads to science it leads to Art it's the it's the quest to know the truth about the nature of reality and so that Quest is another reason why I think that if you harness that to creativity just artists artists hate Dogma you you can't have a dogmatic I I mean are artists always disagree and you're always going to have new Vantage points you're always going to have one evolving uh point of view that's part of the trouble of religion is that they get

22:41you know this is the right way and it's only like this we're not going to look beyond our the boundaries of what you know people made up long ago as the way it's supposed to be in another century when you know we didn't know any of the stuff that we know now so that does make sense so any good religion ought to their view of reality at least science ought to be incorporated into it so you couldn't have a truthful religion without science so are are you planning on writing something out like the tenants of this religion the ethics of this religion we have that we actually have liturgy in order to become a church you have to submit liturgy to the IRS and the uh State Attorney General and then we had to I'm unfamiliar with that word what's that word liturgy liturgy like a like a document like uh you know like stuff that you use on a regular basis in in your ceremonies so you have

23:41to have that in order to be recognized by you don't have to but but it's kind of it's part of the IRS uh requirement and do you have a liturgy do you have ly okay so you can say no I guess yeah you probably you could probably apply and maybe you know it's all in your head relax it's it's like a a guy has to look over what you're doing and really question it and see if you've thought it out and stuff like that so Alex published art Psalms which was a poetry book and you've seen art Psalms so that was really subed oh good that was submitted as our as cosm litery perfect um well that's that's where it gets really fascinating is the tax exempt status of religion um religion is so odd in that way that worshiping and being in a place where you worship even if it's very clear that there's a lot of profit being made you don't have to pay taxes on that yeah I I

24:37just want to tell you this little just a touch of the history of why we became a church because it wasn't really ever Our intention to become a church all the way from the beginning when we 1985 when we visioned the temple simultaneously Alex and I on our first MDMA uh Journey lying on the bed we both came out of it having Vision the circular uh building you know Temple 1985 we had recently moved to New York together you guys were doing MDMA back in 1985 legal the same time Praise Jesus but but we both saw this Temple and we knew that this was sort of like our our our joint Mission this was the thing we were going to do together you know Alex we met an art school so Alex always had his art and I had my art we shared a studio but this was something we were going to do together so um we never thought we would become a church to you know but here we were building

25:34this sacred site and then all through our life together you know we uh started visiting sacred sites like we just came from St Marks in Venice and we see Shard Cathedral and you know we go there with groups of people and you know like go in pilgrimage to these sacred Beauty beautiful art places but anyway uh the way we became a church was um a friend of ours who started serious satellite Network actually she's Martine rothblat but she she loves uh the work that uh she loves Alex's work she's a collector she loves the work we're doing CM with the community and all this and she said you know you're doing everything the churches do you're doing weddings baby blessings and memorials you have you have a prayer book you know basically Arts you're doing everything the churches do and you're not getting any of the benefits of what churches get business is thinking no she's so smart

26:30really and she paid a lawyer she is the one that funded our granted us you know getting together with our with our guy who who went we went through the process with us it took a good long time you have to basically write a lot of essays and then they give you more essays and it was maybe three times through essays and you write them all and then you submit the Liturgy and eventually just at the moment we were moving to the country it was like the same minute the church status just magically came in after four years it was like all like coming together you know so as it is though we have 40 acres and then we had to fight with our town over you know every Church in our town and there's every there's a mosques and Buddhists you know stupas and you know lots of Catholic and every kind of protestant and they were not paying real estate tax and we have this 40 acres and they were

27:24raising our taxes 15% every year Meanwhile we're not making any money Alex and I are volunteers at CM by the way and so we' make nothing we just give it away and the whole place we're giving away it belongs to the community and the community is everybody who's spiritual and creative but it tends to have a lot of psychedeli people who feel like they've they've experienced the Divine and they want a place to go ahead and talk about it they wanted this in the city when we were in Manhattan for 5 years it was just a place where you could go and talk about this cuz it's legal to talk about it and we would always have security and make sure there wasn't you know anything being passed around because we can't get into trouble cuz we're like really legitimate we're doing this in a legitimate way we have to took us four years to get our permits to do this building hold on a second you you had

28:18security to make sure that people didn't pass drugs around well we can't have anything visible what you do that is private is your own business if if you can behave yourself we don't we we watch out for you and we we make nice understand I understand that but you had you had a bunch of people actually watching people to make sure that we always have security they're gentle Giants we call them gentle Giants you have to have security when you're having we have hundreds we have thousands well like some of our full moons are from hundreds to a thousand people we have large uh you know groups of people what do you mean by four Moon well that's what what happened was a shaman told us that uh we we we had this whole idea of this Temple we wanted to build but where's your community you know building a temple is the work of a community he said so we're going to start full moon

29:08ceremonies in your home in Brooklyn so we did we started in January of 2003 164 consecutive full moons ago we started them in our Loft in Brooklyn and then we went to we got a place in Manhattan 12,000 Square ft we did it for 5 years then we found this per permanent location in uh wer New York it's in the Hudson Valley like 65 miles from the city you can get there on the train but we found this lovely old Retreat Center all kind of imploding and you know and we've been you know working on it one building at a time the carriage house which is turning into entheon the first temple of visionary art that we really came there to build is building four actually we have a 10-bedroom Victorian guest house and a u office and our studio so we have you know we have six buildings to work on and we're on building four but uh anyway that's this is like a little Retreat Center that

30:08we're leaving to our community our spiritual creative Cosmonaut Community it's fascinating that Martine was involved in it because she's also involved in artificial intelligence I interviewed her for the Sci-Fi show that I did did you yeah and she has this robot version of her wife beina yeah and 48 or whatever there there well she started a church she and Bea started a church it's called the term Movement we need to start a church you should the the Church of good church of rology Joey Diaz already has a church we should just join his yeah right Joey Diaz has the Church of What's Happening Now cool oh there's some great churches out there really I just think it's why should these Catholics get it all you know what I mean definitely shouldn't get it no no I think after you uh involved in like the 100th child molestation oh you probably should take probably take it away and that's that's

31:08like a super conservative number that's horrible people isn't that crazy that isn't religion religion doesn't uphold that that's just awful people yes but awful people all throughout that one religion I mean there's got to be some sort of a connection with suppression suppression of sexuality suppression of ideology forcing people people to behave in a certain way and these blowbacks and the also the fear I mean I I was raised Catholic and I went to Catholic school when I was a young kid and I remember I didn't go to kindergarten I just went right into first grade and I remember the fear the constant fear that they injected in you this this idea of what religion is it was great for me because it it just queered me off religion so young so early off I was like oh okay well this is all nonsense was before that when I was young my parents were getting divorced and when my parents

32:00were splitting up um I was really scared I was really nervous and I was young and there was a lot of violence going around there was a lot of yelling and screaming and I needed something and so I remember when I was little I was always talking about God and it was just like well there's got to be if all these people around me are out of their mind and everyone's crazy there's got to be God so I was actually excited to go to Catholic school I was excited to go to church I thought of it as well Me Maybe these people that uh these relatives and these family members that I live with are all crazy but there's going to be a place that I can go where I'm going to be able to be loved and it's going to be calm and God has rules and everyone's going to follow them and then I went there and I was like oh good lord no pun intended good Lord this place is worse I was like these people out of

32:50their minds and my my parents were going to put me in there for second grade and I literally told them I'd run away from home I was like I'm going to to find my way out of this I'm like I'm not doing this and I was seven you know I was like this is not happening yeah well you had already become rational at seven yeah you knew what was right what was not you knew what was you had a detector that was always acutely attuned well that's one good thing about growing up in um a really up household is that like you you you're you have a constant sense of danger cuz you're around Danger the time so you don't get to sleep cuddly you don't get to like rest calm and you you you have an acute awareness of all the possibilities wow so I mean ultimately that was a great thing for me I can I can really see how that it heightened your ability to also to always uh maintain a

33:50mindfulness that's that's over everything it's what probably allows you to do so many things it's also there's you know there's a always a balance between mindfulness and paranoia you don't want to be that guy that carries a gun to the bathroom you know there's I know a lot of people that have surpassed this uh awareness and gone into this like acute paranoia I have this statement that I've been saying a lot lately but I think it's important to bring up I don't think human beings are designed to take in the bad news of s billion people I just don't think I think the numbers that we deal with on a daily basis with all the different stories of the world they are too much for us to handle it's not how you're supposed to deal with what's going on your in your community with uh a watchful eye on the rest of the world you shouldn't be deeply engrossed in all the most disgusting

34:41aspects of the rest of the world 24 hours a day and I think that's one of the real problematic issues of our time with social media and with uh the news that people have this distorted sense of what the world is they think this world is just filled with violence and horror no the world is fine it just occasionally has violence and horror there's just so many people and the world is so big that if you look at all those people and this giant globe that we're on then you can kind of get a sense that the sky is falling but you know but if you go outside right now in Woodland Hills it's beautiful birds are chirping bad news it's it's always the worst thing happening in every area sometimes it's not but it's so rare it's like occasionally they give you some good food when they're feeding you poison you're about to die they slip you a piece of fruit yes they do it's just I just don't think it's

35:38good for us I I don't think it is and I think that's the same thing with someone who grows up in a bad environment I think you could you could get a distorted perception of what the world is and think that that the bad environment that you're currently in is the entire world and it can shape your perceptions and your interactions and therefore shape how you react to other people people and shape your actual reality you know it's one of the things that I've truly tried to impart upon people that I've learned is that I believe that how you treat people and your interactions with people literally change your reality and this is from mistakes that I've made and this is from positive um decisions that I've made because I think that when you look at life in a positive way and you try to treat people kind and you try to be nice to people and you try to move forward

36:26with that the people that interact with they will get that they will most likely respond more kindly to you and the world changes the world literally changes in front of you it's billiard balls you know of of kind acts you know that could be sending waves a smile could actually prevent somebody from committing suicide if that's all it takes maybe you should just go ahead and end it smile well what what kept you from commit look I heard from you know some from some kids who are like really desperate am I going to jump or am I not and some stranger looked at me and smiled yeah that's and that stopped me from doing it what stopped you Alex what stopped me acid sto me from from killing myself you know cuz for me I wondered whether God exists just like your question when you were seven you were hoping that there was something that was not uh you know that there was a center of

37:34Peace somewhere I guess now I don't know that I would ever call God a center of Peace you know I would say that that's one aspect of the entire you know meat storm of being alive I love that word meat storm what a great expression the meat storm you should make a t-shirt it just says meat storm I that's a great band that be a radical band Hudson Valley Meat storm yeah that's right we have a grinder attached to an industrial fan folks I wouldn't think about it that way I was thinking about a bunch of people just jumping around getting crazy there you go yeah me storm so what a great word well I thought of that when I saw the last judgment but Michelangelo speaking of Catholics so you got to look at the the good things like like even though probably some really terrible stuff happened in those howed Halls in the Vatican but again really awesome art was

38:43there yeah amazing to go there have you ever seen the sis Chapel no I'm actually going there this summer we spent an entire day from 9 until 5: we got there at the front of the line and got in got got a seat we ran all the way R all the way there you got to run all the way through the Vatican we've been there well to get to no you don't want to to the yeah you do why do you want to run well we wanted to get CH in theine Chapel oh so you got to take it and then get there in time when it kicks in and then you we were there all day from 9: to 5:00 drawing we just sat we got a seat and we were just drawing all day and our focus it was just unbelievable and the drawings came out really amazing too and uh some of them but we had been to Vatican before I have to say so when you go to the Vatican for the first time you have to walk through so you can see all the amazingness on

39:34the way there because the cine Chapel is at the end of the tour you know you go out there and then afterwards you come back so so you you know on the way you want to take a look but we had already done that so we were like made a decision this was our day to draw man you know so I got it you know that I just that was all I wanted to see anyway so everything else is just a blur and then you get to the cinee chapel and it is quite fascinating that you're looking at the work of someone who lived hundreds of years ago 500 years ago amazing and he didn't like everything that cathol Catholics did by the way he nobody does well he didn't but he did like being Catholic okay he he really did he wrote about it and was very eloquent and he loved being Catholic but he didn't like the pope telling him to paint the 16 Chapel for instance look at that God look at how long did it take

40:28for him to do that I don't know years and years the last judgment is the one that was I guess I've always called my favorite painting of all time that's the meat storm um God it's like you know and there were no clothed um uh figures on that they Michelangelo was still alive when they got um a what they called the a he was a he was a good Fresco painter but he became basically Michelangelo's breaches painter you know he was always thought of as the one who added you know clothing and drapery over the genitalia that that Michelangelo had painted he love the body and he uh made what I would call an anthropocosmic much about the nobility uh and connected with the Greek idealist tradition the Greek idealist tradition is a psychedelic tradition from the neoplatonic and the platonic you know Socrates and all the rest so uh that wave was just getting uh he he was there

41:50when they dug up the Lao you know that Greek sculpture with the snakes and and the uh crazy stuff that it really deeply influenced him I just wanted to say that the purity of the religion place where it it it's really true you know like that beautiful you know what what it actually means at the at the core at the heart core of any religion is expressed through the art of that religion so you know the other stuff is crap you know what I mean with the way people act towards each other and stuff that's their own deficits and their own obstacles coming out you know all over the place even the popes that have been horrible and allowed you know uh you know child molestation to perpetrate those people are sick people that has no they don't represent the purity of the religion which ises but what is that what is the purity of the religion and doesn't it vary depending upon the individual and why

42:46does it why does that purity of the religion that what we seeing is the purity of one man's expression his his view his beautiful view of the world that we're so fortunate to be able to still look at 500 years later what does that have to do with Catholicism I think that because he was part of uh that tradition and he was marrying the ideas of uh the Greek ideal and the uh and the neoplatonic uh which was all about universality you know it was really more about they as much as were saying you know know all religions are connected and are basically talking about the the one spirit that moves through all of us you can call it creative spirit I I'd prefer to call it something like that rather than uh some of the names that get so heavily uh weighted but I'm comfortable with the word God to me God means just ultimate mystery yeah we discussed this a couple times on

43:53previous podcast how weighted that word is one the things that I think is amazing about the 16th chapel when you're looking at the two fingers touching when you're looking at all these beautiful images is those images they become what people think of when they think of God and they think of religion those images they it almost like it takes a form on yeah and in taking on that form it gives you a structure to house the ideas and the ideals of these religions like in seeing something A visual representation it it becomes a real thing I an idea that's an idea that becomes embodied by that art I grew up in the Jewish tradition which is a non-iconic tradition and you you know this is the Christian tradition really is a is a story of a person they were born they taught they they healed they died they Rose and in the Jewish tradition there's it's non-embodied so I

44:58you know I resonated with that when I first saw God in LSD and it was really not a person's face at all but I recognize that this is what people were talking about when they're talking about God which is this energy that's you know interconnects everything you know it's like the force more than a face so but that was my experience of God and I and and and in that experience when I was 20 I recognized this is what people are talking about when they say God it's not physical it's yeah energetic and what I'm just saying is that in this guy creating these iconic Works yes he gives it a structure he gives it like a scaffolding and in that scaffolding of these beautiful paintings you can kind of like form your own categories and have your own like chapters in your mind that exist that it's it's almost like makes those things real whether or not they ever were real whether or not there

45:56ever were angels on clouds it's almost inconsequential because the the result of it is kind of the same if you believe that it's real if you believe this is where religion gets so squirely I know because are you saying that Adam and Eve were the only two people in the world and everybody came from them no absolutely not are you saying that there was a snake and he told Eve to no no no no no no no no but if you operate your life as if those things were reality and if you operate your life life under the ideals that are transcribed and described in these beautiful paintings it will become a real past in the sense that it will have a real meaning to you it gets real weird in that way and that's where I thinkir art in general and your art is particularly important because the things that you paint you can actually see I've seen a lot of the things that you paint maybe not

46:55specifically but but one of the things that I remember uh when I was first introduced to some of your art I I I saw I forget which one it was I forget what I've seen so many of your pieces but I I remember going oh this guy's seen it like 100% you've been there like I when I thought of tryptamine experiences and I saw your art I was like oh this guy he he nailed it I mean some people have come kind of close they've kind of but even though what you're showing it doesn't exist in a itic form in the tryptamine dimension like there's no way you can take a a you know you take your phone and you take a screenshot and you don't you want to when you're in there don't you want to press that button and say got to save that no that's too good no can I just press the movie how can I capture this well the problem also is it changes every fraction of a second exactly the the the beautiful thing

47:48about the trip toine experiences is that whatever visual you're experiencing right now will morph into something else and it was one of the most important lessons that I ever learned while tripping was um in a DMT experience I had a bunch of negative thoughts I don't remember what they were about but I remember the visions that I was having turned dark and like like a dark green and black and twisted like they were contorted and compressed like a A visual representation of negative thinking and then I realized that these whatever these things are with entities thoughts whatever they were trying to express to me the actual negative consequences of thinking like that that it showed me in a visual form and then I relaxed and thought positive and it literally bloomed in front of me like a flower and then changed into this wildly beautiful geometric pattern that was like dancing

48:51in front of me and I realized like at that moment like I'm I I I realized to I said I have to remember this I have to remember this and I have to figure out how to express this because this is an incredible realization that it's not this like abstract idea that oh you think negative and negative things happen you think positive no you're literally manifesting energy you're manifesting a certain kind of energy with negative thinking that's one of the reasons why we like getting away from negative people when someone's like really negative and complaining and whining just like oh Jesus I got to get out of here like you really feel feel like they're going to suck me into their Vortex I've got to I've got to escape yeah there's there is um let's see you could think of it like an amoeba around your physical body a cloud of um pulsating thought forms and uh as you're imagining uh you know

49:52a the beautiful Elements of Life and things it's it seems to be in a kind of order and uh and maybe kind of wafting upward it these are like uh the the spiritual positive uh kind of Frameworks sometimes that you're seeing life through when you're tripping you know and seeing the connections between things lines forming and things like that the the more kind of organic geometries that that show up you see this intelligence of life and the uh the the light of divine intelligence that came through for Allison like uh in this language it it seems to be weaving things together and when you're in touch with that infinite uh light that seems to be the source uh then that is you can keep it upwardly moving and very evolutionarily Co cosmically consciously uh moving forward forward and when then you're thinking regretful thoughts or thinking negative thoughts and anger and

51:05things like that there's a constriction that goes on in your heart I think and kind of shuts things down and that kind of like you were saying twisting in and curling in and and darkening and and things are Are all uh things that when you're journeying you see them manifest literally in your the flow of your the theater of your imagination and so I think you really beautifully described that uh just in that I was totally there I think it's a disease of Consciousness I think it's very similar to catching a cold that you know uh you don't see the cold you don't see a disease you don't see it but it affects you and I think there's an analogy to be made about diseases of Consciousness that you can get locked into these terrible ways of looking at the world and I think that's one of the most important things about what you're trying to do in terms of building a community that if you can

52:04build a community and build uh like a conscious ideology that that is sort of uh prescribed to people and establish a a very positive and loving environment you can spread that like you can spread a disease you know or I mean for no better word a Seeds of Love or Whatever whatever you would call it I mean you could do it the wrong way you know you could do it what the Nazis did and do what genas con did and do it some horrible people throughout history have done they're similar things in a lot of ways because they're diseases of ideas they diseases of Consciousness or you could do it the right way or a good way or a beneficial way or positive way and it seems like throughout history we almost have to see those negative ones to learn the consequences of of letting these things happen I mean it's one of the reasons why Germany won't let in the scientologists they're like hey we've

53:05seen what happens when Cults take over okay we've got a deep history with up group thinking so let's just not let you guys in right and it's what we were talking about before the podcast we were talking about Trump and what's going on in this country right now and I was saying that I think it's probably a good idea to to have this moment where we realize like oh we really have to pay attention like we we can't just sit back and not participate anymore because look what's happened it's a mockery the whole system is like been exposed by this one guy as being a joke and it's always been a joke it's just been a joke that we've accepted you know we were talking about Hillary and all the criminal investigations that she's under and that somehow or another this one person who we know is insincere is a better option than this other person who we know is a jerk off like where's the right and

54:01where's the wrong we I don't know there barely been an election where that isn't true I thought Obama was a pretty clear choice and there was a lot of celebrating afterwards but of course then he disappointed people like he predicted he would at his inauguration he said I'm I'm not going to make everybody happy and you're not going to always be happy with me he he he predicted that and he came through with that but I remember all the elections of my life it was like h you know I mean I always voted for the least worst person you know what I mean I mean I think Al Gore was was was up there he was really good and I you know and I and I like he actually won yeah and he actually won you know that's where the uh the coup took place right there where Corporate America took over yeah it really did I mean that's well it's also where the the system that we're voting under is

54:53exposed like they're still using pieces of paper and then also so the did you ever see hacking democracy the HBO HBO documentary on the diebold systems oh oh my God T Alex's brother was a vice president there us to work there he left there before they uh before they were making voting machines whoa yeah they have actually changed their name after that documentary is that right yeah well they they established a voting machine where you can I I recommend everybody watch hacking democracy I think it was from I want to say 200 seven or something like that but it was a documentary where they exposed that these voting machines not only can they be manipulated they were designed to be manipulated they were designed to have a thirdparty entrance like a third party could enter into data and it's just Madness that those machines are how our election got decided and you know they've since then

55:52cleaned it up in in some way but still it's a dirty system yeah doesn't it seem like we could actually have some encryption uh that each voter could vote online exactly and do it in a minute sure and uh and we'd know here's a perfect example banking everyone Banks online who who doesn't Bank online who doesn't buy things online credit card transactions people like whoa it gets hacked how often how often how many people how what percentage of it is it enough to shift an election I would say it's probably not I would say it's not I would say if you could make banking secure you can make voting secure right and the phone they couldn't even get into that guy's phone you know they you can do this and so they should do it well representative government is not necessary anymore we can communicate instantaneously with people all throughout the world we're not talking

56:45about sending a raven you know this isn't you know the 1300s this is this is an interesting time and we're not taking advantage of the resources that are available to us as far as representing the actual people but I think there's also a problem with that too is there's a lot of people that are just completely uneducated uninterested slovenly lazy people we have to energize those people we have to reinvigorate their ideas of participation and of community and you have to say like look you can't just sit on your couch and eat Twinkies and watch Beverly Hills housewives you can't do that anymore because if you do you're not allowed to complain about the world being up because you're a part of the world being up and I think until we can energize people until we can give people this sense that they actually can participate and it is just a bunch of human beings that are trying

57:37to figure out the right and the wrong way to do things I think there's a lot of that going on right now I think there's this EB and flow of social media and positive aspects of it and negative aspects of it but ultimately I think a lot of that is just us learning to navigate the landscape this new landscape this digital interconnected landscape that's unprecedented in human history unprecedented we don't I don't think we can understand it because we're a part of it I mean I think we can sort of we're talking about it right but I don't think if we look back in history and they a thousand years from now look at this day the way we're looking at Michelangelo or Leonardo da Vinci or genghiskhan or anyone you look back and you go wow what a crazy time that's nothing compared to today today is the craziest time ever the emergence of artificial intelligence the emergence of

58:26a very bizarre method of communication where you can instantaneously reach people on the entire planet where data is shared like that amongst hundreds of millions of people instantly it's a new world it's a crazy new world it's a birth it is literally like a birth it's like a an an organism coming out of an egg and poking its head out and right now the shells being chipped and the head's popping up but this thing going to emerge and it's going to fly well tar D shardan talked about the neosphere you know about the thinking layer of uh the Earth you know and that's really what enabled I mean you talked about it in the mid mid 20th century and uh so this thinking layer uh thinking atmosphere that's around the earth now through satellites through all of the uh interactive technology that we're currently speaking on you know is a new body for the uh soul of humanity you

59:34know this is now uh what we're what we're working on now is the Theos spere you know that's what we've got to tap and access now we have uh connectedness with each other yeah now as a symbol that should really clue us into something important if we look at other n nature systems like uh the mycelial intelligence that weaves the woods together and that weaves our entire soil and makes it alive really uh these are spores uh connected by fibers and that's what we are well if you can't explain what what's going on in the Pacific Northwest in regards to that like how enormous the actual individual organism of my connection is in the Pacific Northwest it's essentially like someone described it it might have been McKenna as like a thousand gray whales like that's how big this organism is and it's essentially one interconnected mushroom yeah like whoa yeah exactly the

60:42biggest being on Earth the biggest being on Earth is a mushroom exactly well it's the oldest beings as well you know we're more like mushrooms than any other plant yes yes they they actually breathe in oxygen and breathe out carbon dioxide like people you know I've been incredibly fascinated over the last few months with plant intelligence and with plant communication and calculations and this idea that plants have some sort of a Consciousness and one of the things that I've been tripping out about is acacia trees where if a an animal eats them and the wind carries the scent of the acacia tree being consumed the bushes and trees down wind smell it and become bitter so that it discourages predation and animals were starving the downwind animals were starving because they wouldn't eat the bushes from the trees that had taken the scent of the trees that were up north I mean it's

61:43Madness they're literally sending out a signal to the other plants hey hit the alarm we're getting eaten oh God they're communicating with each other absolutely it's the underground and overground uh network of plant intelligence so I think of basically the festival culture as being mushrooms that are growing out of the underground intelligence like Graves and stuff like that exactly those are the little fruiting body not Coachella though right no I don't know what kind of a mushroom sou Southwest they don't even baby burning man we're going to be a burning man this summer I just want to tell everybody out there come and be a part of the Dr Broner foam Dome camp and get yourself sprayed with foam and see us paint our mural so Dr Brer that soap we're going to be in the maps Broner Camp the ma Maps is the multi-disciplinary association for psychedelic studies many of us know and

62:43they have the Zeno where people go when they need some help and then there's also what wait a minute what's that mean the Zeno that's where you know the Rangers when they go around and they find people who are having a bad time they go to the Zeno when they they take care of them they're they're they're helped they call it the Zeno oh yeah we we have a Zeno at km it's well it's a it's for people place for meditating and to chill out to get away from the frenetic energy and just have a place of peace is this it this is the Zeno from oh you know that smells like feet it's really beautiful and it it sounds strange but it's made out of wood and uh bamboo and car board so how do they construct that out in the middle of the they bring it in pieces and and put it up it like they do everything else there wow how long does it take to put that together people come in like a week

63:36or two ahead of time depending on how complex your you're put together is but we did a dome in 2006 with maps and um Matt Atwood who did the infrastructure and uh it was called The anthon Village and it was entheon Village for years Alex named it so now we have entheon growing in in cm but it used to be uh at at Burning Man but anyway it's did do you go no I don't go you I can't be around that many hippies it's all kinds of people but it is the freest place on Earth it's certainly infested with hippies though let's be honest with ourselves well no infested with people who are using sacraments I I want to take objection for a moment and speak for the hippies uh because because I think that this is like one of the last places where it's okay you know like it's no longer okay to say or queer okay or you know to unless you're that that right you know so if you're a hippie maybe you

64:38could call another hippie a dirty hippie yeah but I'm kind of a hippie okay are you yeah conly I'm nice to people always giving out hugs I'm I'm essentially a weird version of a hippie hippie but I don't fit into the mold because I'm also a cage fighting commentator there you go I like the diversity and and you know the Bernie man used to have the uh genital portrait St studio and the uh genital portrait studio we po Thunderdome Thunder you would love Thunderdome say this like I should know you should shooting range drive by shooting range guns you shoot guns bur kind they have open bars there and they're giving it all away the thing about Bernie man is it's a gift economy so it's an experiment in gift economy you're not once you get in and it costs something to get in of course but once you get in it's like you know you don't take your wallet out you can't pay for

65:31anything and there's no bartering it's only gifting and people give it away are you guys fighting with sticks yeah there's the Thunder bashing each other they're like Nerf sticks they don't really hurt each other but they but they knock them they try to knock them off of their perch there alth the they're swinging on those ropes in that Dome it's a dome frame anyway it there's all kinds there's 880,000 people there it's the best biggest most amazing environment it's like being on the moon it's like not it's like being nowhere else on Earth you have to always carry your ma your dust mask and your goggles and your hair covering and your camel back it's so drying that you have to be drinking like a g couple gallons a day you know just to you know there's no insects there there is not a blade of any kind of Life there it's like walking on the moon seriously except you can

66:24breathe but you have to have a face me cuz the dust storms just come up at every moment it's has anyone done a documentary on it oh many over the years you're there there's dudes sticking cameras in your face isn't that sort of no you have to have permission everything is very regulated now and I understand they're buying land so I'm hoping they'll have some because they've been you know they'll have some infrastructure way you said that like somebody offered you a a beautiful cake they're buying land well buying land is good for our community we should own our own places of of Attraction because that is the way you gain transformational power power to transform you basically have land a place you build that infrastructure this culture W look at how this the way it's structured isn't that beautiful that's really cool it really is beautiful the center part is called the PLA and it's

67:20about 9 ft across from from endend to end like the big circle the biggest miles n miles feet 9 ft N9 miles across and you can walk the whole way a lot of people have art cars that's nine miles well from from edge to edge that's incredible Outer Edge it's Mammoth 60,000 people it's good run Jamie 60 to 80 and it's Inc and everybody takes care of each other you have to have your own food you you got to come in there with water food and everything and you're not allowed to pour or drop anything on the ground if you if you have and they have full showers de Broner Camp is you know you get foamed you know they have a big foam Dome so but you got to collect all that water right and they collect them in these great big uh graywater tankers and take them away and bring in fresh water it's like they're practicing setting up a village in in in like of the Apocalypse I'm telling you this is the

68:17practice refug ready yeah these people can go in in a week or two I mean the government I mean the Army went in there to study this cuz they can do this in a couple of weeks they put it all together wow so it's very much apocalyptic uh preparation you would I think you would get a great benefit uh from seeing it and I think I get material out of it you could you should come be with our camp you know what is it what what done does it it is the it is the week that leads to Labor Day weekend so I don't know that's like the first weekend of it's the first Monday the first Monday of September is Labor Day okay so it's the weekend uh before the Monday of Labor Day and they have the temple burn is on Saturday night I mean it's Sunday night and the man is burned on Saturday night so when the man is burned you know 100 800,000 no 80,000 people come together

69:12to see it it's like everybody comes in a big circle around the man where's the man there he is I think I'd be like I got to get the out of and you know what they have a thousand fire Spinners around the man you have to you have to audition to be a fire spinner around the man but they have about a thousand of them and they're they're spinning whips my friend Joe they're spinning swords and Po and and all kinds of hula hoops are are on fire it's the most amazing thing and you go there on your art car you're not allowed to go in the ply at all unless your car is approved as an art car that means it has to be show some art cars art cars art cars are incredible they've got big ships like roll along the pla you know they have gigantic three story structures that move so they have to kind of be enhancing the environment they do and they have to be art look at

70:05that thing they have to be art and the reason why they even do them at all in one big way is so that you can get on the top of them so that you can see over everybody else when you go to see the man and you can see all these fire Spinners that are all around this you want to be up high J go back to the dinosaur your party your party is up there it's all you got your own DJ seriously this this car has got it own DJ the Mayan Warrior the Mayan Warrior Alex painted it and we're going to be on the Mayan Warrior this year so you take this thing back with you how does that work yes they people pay year round to park these things in in gatch you know and outside gach is the non town it's like this town that grew up around Bernie man they have like one store you know it's like you drive into this moonlike Planet this this place is where wallboard is made okay so if you peeled

71:01off the paper that's what the pla is like and it's like a skin you're not allowed to drop Peanut shells or anything on the ground and you have to collect everything so it's extremely Eco and you you learn about saving water you can't believe how much you try to you know save water I love the mine that's beautiful your art car is beautiful what did you what did you use to illuminate it with there he is there's the all the painting is Alex just C click on one stick on it stop flipping around just go to one well that will show The Mask painting area that I did what and they put neon all over the course yeah how do you power that thing like what they do it they do it they all do it they all have to have light on it you can't even have a bicycle on the plier without LEDs on but what is what is Illuminating this I mean this is for people who okay for people listening alone this thing is

71:54filled with with beautiful lights and um this the flower of life is in one of them and what are the other ones the the blue ones above the flower of life there's more flower of life more flower of life but also notice that there's a second story and if you scroll down a little bit you'll see there's a third story see those people up there that's royalty those are the DJs and the royalty up there royalty I'm just joking but really it's like you know the people who own the M Warrior are up there and they're best friends Oh I thought it was yours our friends oh no no painted it it was a commission yeah oh so somebody own they brought it they listen to this they brought it from Mexico City on its own trailer they drove it from Mexico City to km I would have thought there was a tro horse F Mexicans I'm serious if I was in Border the border patrol i' would

72:43be like everybody out get out of well it was all enclosed in this Trail I was enclosed in the trail oh yeah definitely Enos don't worry we looked there's no Mexicans in here sneaking across the border and Warrior Alex's collectors are probably you know the most you know the most well meaning you know they have the most means of all Mexicans I would say what are those uh Stacks the stack things there two stacks yeah looks like Cinder those are speakers oh Jesus Christ you're going to go it's a disco you're all going to go deaf you bring your own DJ baby what if the movie what if the music's annoying what kind of music are you playing oh only only cool for sure we got party see these are people that produce our events in Mexico City and they sponsor us going down there and doing you know like four events for a visit and we've done it a few times so they'll do a workshop they'll do a day

73:38lecture you know they'll do a and then they'll do an evening event and the evening event is an electronic dance music party at a big at a big place you know and we're on stage painting so these are producers but they produce for bigger names than us I mean way bigger but we do our our thing down there so you've got a bunch of bikes behind it as well is that what that is or is that people parking their bikes that's parking their you know they come up they hey can we come up and have a ride and so you need a you need a bike too though you got to have one of these and a bike some people have motor well they have to have a a well I don't know when people find you out there though don't they give you ear beatings don't they find you and then go Alex your goles no your goggles your mask your hair covering you are completely in don't you want to be open why do you

74:27want to hide well we go in and we we we paint our mural that's when we see people that's our station you can always come and find us at the foam Dome at our 32ft mural that we'll be painting for the whole the idea of wandering around with a gas mask on and goggles and headdress in the middle of a gyps and Forest it's amazing it sounds so ridiculous look at this guy that guy's got they they dress up that guy owes rent for sure some these people are extremely wealthy look at Broner few these people no tons this very this is the I would say the highest End Festival I've ever been to that guy's definitely broke guaranteed are you kidding me you know how much that costume cost you must be joking ex saved up all year now he's empty look at that guy it looks like the alien that they found when the movie Alien the guy that's uh in the chair totally guy from Google comes to this

75:19guy the guy from Google who's that young people the children of the inventors you know you sound like a spokesperson for this I love it now I don't go every year either we've only been this will be our fifth time Jamie go back to that one the girl that's got that blue one above there the blue light one that seems like some industrial strength gas mask type you don't have to have a gas mask you have to have a particle mask it's dust you have to have goles goggles you have to have goggles yeah you get you get kind of swim swim goggles I sense Your Enthusiasm I appreciate it but that place oh well I have had a good time there we went there when Zena was 14 it was the first time we went we were invited every time we've gone somebody's brought us I'm your daughter Zena's our daughter she lives in Hollywood SMI she was she was 14 and we were there Will Smith goes to burning man go a a lot of

76:13freaks who use it like uh Mecca you go once it's a Haj know if you're a freak so oh definit well you don't go to the Haj every year we've been five times s like this is a great idea in a shitty spot and this could be recreated somewhere habitable how about that no it's perfect in so many way here's the reason it's these are it's an art festival and so they make a sculpture and they put it on the bare ground it's like going into a white Gallery you know it's like going into a like a white out and then you put an object there and frankly you've got a lot of space around it so so you can really look at amazing sculpture it's about seeing the the art so so you know it's not for everybody in I think that it's an extraordinary uh outgrowth of psychedelic Visionary culture I'm totally joking around obviously when I'm mocking it but that's my nature now look

77:15at this Alex look at this guy seen fire before and you know we we were we we have a sculpture at km that was on the ply it's a two-story sculpture at km and we're we're getting another one people they don't know what to do with them afterwards they want some place to put them well km has 40 acres so we're going to end up with probably more so they're going to ship burning man sculptures we do that oh you going they give it to us we we pay for the that's amazing now who is that and it probably lights up at that's incredible and you go out there and you just visit all these sculptures it's nine miles of sculpture you just go you ride your bike from sculpture to sculpture and many of them most of them are interactive so you can go inside of them them you can climb up in them they sometimes they have swings and a lot of them have fire coming out that's incredible you can light things on fire

78:02there that's what makes it so exciting too any this is the Belgian the Belgian waffle here's Kate R that's Kate R we have a Kate rodenbush sculpture at cos what Kate rodenbush she does uh laser cut cold rolled steel sculptures that are that are interative like they're pods you sit in them they're they're real comfy they're cozy W this is amazing yeah we're looking at for people are listening we're looking at about Mars One Look at Mars One sculptures on the for people that are listening we're looking at this this geometric object that's circular but it's got squared edges what would you call that what is that x what what what is that a sacred geometric form and these guys are why you doing in mean accent from they're they're from San Francisco we know these guys um and this whatever this geometric form are they the ones making my chandelier they're making my

78:59chandeliers for for entheon I'm going to have chandeliers uh that that where light where they turn and the light sh falls on people it's environmental what is it it's called Jamie Fest 300 a sneak peek at the coolest art coming to Burning Man look at that let's not um so you can see this uh online if you go Google it it's really stunning this image okay so there's a magazine that has a bunch of these images oh God that's amazing that's cool almost worth going yeah maybe if you bring a big tour bus yeah well we bring an RV you won you don't want to come Joe without an RV you want to come with an RV tell me I was ready to hike are you kidding no we don't Camp how long does it take to get out there how where is it let's see tens of thousands of people do Camp hours from here where is it it's a Black Rock City out in uh it's about an hour from Reno it's in Nevada it's in Nevada yeah

79:57it's probably got a lot of nuclear energy out there right know where do those tests you ever see that um the animated gif it's like a little movie of all the nuclear tests that they've done in Nevada might explain a lot yeah explain a lot about what's going on out there hundreds of them just they did this thing from like 19 40 whatever it was the time where they detonated the first atomic bomb to present it's the bottom of a sea that once was it's made of crushed shell and you know it feels like sand but if you walk on it you won't be able to use your feet in the middle of the winter it's what I'm saying is it lasts the out of your feet yeah you won't be able to use your feet in the middle of the winter they're cracking they're cracking even in the middle of the winter I did it once I'm just telling you it it it it I had to walk back from the man to our

80:53camp without any shoes cuz I lost my shoes and I walked back through and it feels like sand at first but then it's like knives like little tiny little knives they're like shells it's like crushed crushed shells and it messed up your feet and all winter I was dealing with cracked feet happy ply of feet burning see you have to wear boots and really cover up H and it gets to be like 110° in the day and 40° at night sounds like you're trying to keep me off I know know trying to keep me off the p well we're building a place at km that is going to house some of the sculptures and have little sculptural areas so and we have these small Gatherings by comparison to that they'll never be huge like that they'll but hundreds of people will gather so it can still feel kind of tribal and Community oriented but you know a lot of the same music is enjoyed we always have fire Circle and we always

81:51have fire spinning we actually teach fire spinning at cos yeah and we have wor about that getting out of hand like fire all that fire spinning around there those people are the most cautious and we also have a relationship with the fire department there in our town we have a sheriff on property uh at the at each event where there are uh you know large numbers of people and so we you know Safety First you know but there's ways of doing it so when do you anticipate this entire thing the entire cosm we should tell everybody that means Chapel of sacred mirrors that's what cosm stands for and when do you anticipate that being fully operational and in action well right now it it is open we're open like four days a week so that people we have a uh ongoing stream of people who just are visitors and there are uh small art exhibits that are on dis spite now we're working on anthon

82:53that's where the grand exhibit will be housed and the exhibit that we had on display for 5 years in the city that is not currently on display the sacred mirrors are not there but they will be in the new space and so the new space as we said we're thinking will open sometime in 2017 probably toward the end of the year and then uh the as as we can we will build the outside of it you know the the sculpture it's just a matter of how many years it's going to take it's going to probably take a few years you could win the power bowl Lotto yeah and then you be able to do massive donations can come in all these things much more likely to get donations I think all these things can happen I mean the kickstarter thing look Joe you were really helpful to us when the last time we did the uh podcast there was definitely a Rogan bump that happened to the uh Kickstarter that took us uh to a

83:52new level good news is that there's probably like how many more million people listening now like how many years ago was it that you guys came on last 2013 so that was we were getting probably like 4 million downloads a month probably triple that now I'd say at least from what it was three years ago at least triple and then with the YouTube yeah plus YouTube yeah so it's probably like so we're in the neighborhood of 30 million downloads a month well thank you for joining us in being a temple Builder joining us Temple Builder you're helping us build this implicating me in something um I think that there's going to be a lot of people that are excited about it I think what the idea behind it is beautiful the idea that you guys are leaving it for the community and building it for the community is beautiful and uh that's one of the best Arguments for religion that I've ever

84:42heard and best Arguments for having a religion be tax exempt that I've ever heard I mean you guys are literally doing it for other people you're doing it for everybody it's awesome and you know your artwork is I'm just a huge fan of what you do and I just think that uh the design itself is literally like I said probably the coolest building on the planet and it's a real I mean what you're doing is essentially an extension of the great works of all these you know when you're talking about the 16th chapel or if you're talking about the Egyptian pyramids or any of these sacred sites that exist all throughout the world you're doing a modern version of that and it's it's amazing it's really really cool Alex's 50 greatest works I think will be on view there and there their original form not CH Clays but the actual paintings that Alex stroked with his own hand and some of them have

85:31become really iconic to people there are a lot of people out there that have Alex's posters and t-shirts and oh I have a bunch and G Clays and everything but to see The Originals that's a study for other artists what is a clay that's like the prints that a lot of people have the limited edition prints that they have of of paintings that wonderful labor intensive art is is made I've never heard that word heard that word it's a print limited edition said I've read it I just I thought it was like gley or something yeah well you know the the other thing about anthon is that it's going to display the work of the international Visionary art movement and uh these are I mean if you liked my stuff you should see some of the young people that are making art out of their Journeys now they're you know they're evolving Beyond you know my work and uh also I I think they're building an

86:26encyclopedia of these dimensions of Altered States that people can say it was something like that well it's very specific in that if you go back before the 1960s and you look at the art it really didn't represent the trips it it just didn't um and you look at it now there's a giant body of art that represents these psychedelic trips that really didn't exist before so in in a lot of ways it is a quiet new chapter in the world of art that one day I think people are going to look back on and once we realize the Ridiculousness of the prohibition on drugs especially on psychedelic drugs non-toxic um nonprotic as far as like Health repercussions and you wonder like what what was it about our restrictive society that put this sweeping comprehensive ban on psychedelic substances in 1970 and what were the ramifications what was you know what were the consequences of society so you

87:26know there was no organic there was no Eco there was no Eco careers there was there was no um you know Save the Planet talk climate change we never heard about that growing up well there was there was people that were talking about it and there were cly certainly people that were Recycling and composting and doing things along those lines and trying to leave a smaller footprint back then aware of it but as far as a gigantic glueable conscious movement and also the urgency that's that's attached to it today where people are stepping back and they're looking at Islands disappearing and you know they're looking at the rising sea levels and they go whoa whoaaaaa this is real this is actually happening inside of our lifetime there's there's a lot going on that I think we are we're we're in the middle of and I think uh this Visionary art that that is going on right now we we're sort of in

88:19the middle of that I think as we look back on it or as people past us look back on on they're going to say this is a very specific ERA this was an ERA like if you go back and uh look at religious history and you look at the um the enlightenment you look at the the various styles of art that's connected to religion or cultural change you know you see these big shifts I think the Visionary art of psychedelics is a big shift and it's huge I I think that it's the it's showing that the big news today is the sacramental uh sort of reformation you know that there's a uh Return of the sacrament to the West it's been demonized and hidden for thousands of years now it's back and you're not going to get rid of it now it's here because we need it there's nothing that's going to turn Consciousness around toward a sacred planet that wants to save itself from self-destruction like psychedelics

89:27there is no greater prescription uh for soul medicine than uh this is the stuff that is curing all of the traumatic stress of of the Vets you know and marijuana is part uh is leading the way in the medicinals and opening the door literally for the sacred drugs the return of the Sacred drugs now we don't even have a context uh established in in America but it's beginning you know the udv church won their right to use the sacrament the uh Native American church has peyote there is legal uh precedent for religious use already yeah as there has been throughout history except for the last couple thousand years well in in this country as you were talking about with MDMA I mean just really the last few decades yeah and um five methoxy dimethyl tripto I bought that stuff online yeah like in uh 2001 or something like that you could just order it from some chemical company they sent

90:32you a bottle of it you get the whole world High I remember that yeah it was great times it yes it was and uh somehow we've got to find a way to incorporate these sacraments well I think they're being Incorporated and I think one of the things that you said that you just sort of glossed over but it's incredibly important is that marijuana is the door opener marijuana is the guy that you let into the party that has the magic dust and he went and he blew it on everybody because once that gets in and especially edible marijuana because edible marijuana is a psychedelic drug and many people don't know it and that's one of the reasons why when people eat brownies or something they'll say oh my God someone lace the brownie no that's what it is that that is the most potent form of marijuana is the edible form of marijuana and it is very Visionary especially in high doses it's incredibly

91:20introspective acid-like in a lot of ways you know you you get a perspective that is life changing and shifting and it's one of those directional shifts where even if it's a small degree of change over the course of the rest of your life that small degree of change could equal a very large shift in the direction that you're going as you continue down your path that slight turn to the right will make a huge difference five years from now 10 years from now I think marijuana becoming legal in Colorado and we us seeing not not just the positive benefits in terms of the community you're looking at people that are making way more money than they've ever made before you're looking at housing prices real estate prices going up people having a a new sense of community where they're like oh there's others like us it's like a magnet for freaks and they've all flown into Colorado and set

92:17up shop there it's fascinating I did a show there a couple months ago at the Bellco theater and it was a amazing it was like this place has changed in a year I recorded my last comedy special um about two years ago two years in August in Colorado and then I did the most recent one about 6 months ago in Colorado the most recent uh spe uh show that I did there and I could feel the shift when you're driving down the street you see the difference there's pot everywhere there's people are smiling the lowest incidents of drunk driving they've ever recorded lowest incidents of violent crime everything is dropping suicide rates half yes and money the money that the state is making is insane they literally have a surplus of taxes it's an attractor they've made more money from taxes from marijuana than they did from alcohol for the first time ever no one's ever done that and

93:11you've got this Happy community and now Seattle has entered into the mix now Washington DC's entered into the mix in November California's going to vote on it and I guarantee it's going to go through you think oh yes of course it is well so just try to send a little blessing New York way okay because New York is so far behind I'm so ashamed of us come on we got to move that direction and our people will just love it so much I think that just the the ideologies that are were in place that stopped it they're they're eroding the people are too old they're too out of touch they don't understand the the mindset of the young people and they've really underestimated the power of this movement they they this is a wave and you can't suppress it anymore you can't it's a movement of people that are upwardly spiraling okay they're people that are healthy beautiful positive ecological Save the

94:05Planet educated more thinking people it's such an attractor yes and so everybody wants to be part they wonder what's what is that and it can have a power it's what we were talking about earlier when we were talking about plant intelligence there is an intelligence in marijuana an absolute undoubted intelligence and it exists I think in all plants it exists in funguses as well not not all plants uh are mirroring systems inside of uh the human body like cannabis since it was the probably the original or one of the original C cultivated plants I think that Humanity over the Millennia worked out a symbiotic relationship with this plant and so we have the endoc canabo system yeah and then the uh and I would say that probably many of our health deficiencies are because we're not getting our cannabis uh THC deficiencies and uh no well look the the AMA in the

95:0830s went to uh Congress and said please don't make cannabis illegal it's in half of our medicine you know for 87 years it's been part of the American pharmacopia please allow us to continue to use it no it was struck down and so it's been repressed uh since then and a lot of it has just been pure racism actually that's the cause of it well that was what those recent papers were released about the Nixon Administration it's one of the way ways they demonized the black Rights Movement civil rights movement and also the anti-war movement is they attacked marijuana and they attacked psychedelic drugs and that was the reason why they passed that sweeping legislation in the first place AB was just to be able to have a reason to arrest those people they knew they could attack the communities and in attacking those communities the best way to do it was to go after the drugs Nixon hated

96:02them and Nixon was a a traitor to America Nixon uh was probably am with bush one of the worst we've ever experienced and through his hatred and Venom we have the drug war that now for over 40 years we've just been laboring under the boot of a fascist traitor that once resigned from office he was he was he was you know impeached really but I wanted to say go back to what you were saying about fungus because people sometimes ask what does l what is LSD what does it you know what does it look like what is it and I wanted to mention that uh recently there's microscopic you know images of well what it is is it's fungus growing on rye so there's these microscopic images that you can call up and look at that see the LSD it looks like a field of little tiny mushrooms that's all just microscopic well you remember the U the the Revelation that they had a few few years back when they

97:09were trying to figure out what caused the Salem witch trials and one of the leading theories was that they had had a late Frost and at the late Frost had caused these funguses to grow on bread Urgot to grow on bread yeah and that when that happened these people were experiencing very acid-like effects from eating bread and they started freaking out and blaming people for it and thinking that they were being possessed and it was a whole wave of paranoia that came from that it's unbelievably fascinating when you think about it that way it really is it's um actually the uh to be cured from ergotism um this uh uh Bishop uh Flo Bear right he gu and he was responsible for sh Cathedral like a thousand years ago basically prayed to Mary and said if you'll cure me of this ergotism uh which is very dangerous you know but it leads to many Visions I will build you the most beautiful Temple ever

98:10built you know and so he was cured and he did Found A Shard cathedral but uh as a result so that's one of the cool things about ergotism and Urgot but the coolest thing is definitely LSD uh and Hoffman's ability to stabilize that uh yeah uh and then so basically the coolest thing about the psychedelics to me is that they uh in the and the science that has been done as the Good Friday experiment and ran Griffith's work and that has basically given us the best evidence for the existence of God because 65% of uh people who take psilocybin in a safe set and setting and they're spiritually inclined will have a full-blown mystical experience that's now science it's proven so a majority of people who take uh a psychedelic basically in a positive setting and they don't you know they're not uh pre skitso themselves you know not a borderline personality if you're

99:13stable U PR skitso yeah that's important to put out you know because I think that a lot of people think that psychedelics are for everybody but unfortunately there's some folks amongst us that have a very difficult time with just regular stable sobriety and mental issues you know but I think in the end they're going to with science with medicine and science I think what's going to be found out is that uh these psychedelics are going to cure schizophrenia I really think that when they when they use it properly because that's what the science is doing now they're experimenting with all kinds of with schizophrenics what what science is been I'm not sure if there's any studies with schizophrenics but I I because it mirrors schizophrenia it may be um I don't know I think that research will be done uh related to all kinds of um uh psychological illness and um but anyway

100:06it's curing so many things it can cure uh cluster headaches and the studies are you know like Harvard Yale Johns Hopkins all the big all the big universities that can that Maps can get funding for they're funding all that research well Maps is really fascinating and amazing and what they've done is just add a an actual intellectual perspective on psychedelic drugs and undeniably researched really well documented perspective that's so important I I mean I when I had um my first experiences with um with maps I I remember thinking like thank God there's someone like this out there some someone like doblin out there Rick doblin who has taken the super intelligent approach to recognizing what these substances are and what are the positive benefits are and how can you get these things slowly but surely through the legal system and that's what they're doing now with MDMA that's what

101:02they're doing now with these studies that they're doing on uh Soldiers with post-traumatic stress disorder and all sorts of other people too police officers anybody rape victims yeah violence victims exact um I think that's it's so important it's just it's these are really beneficial things that we're being denied and we're being denied by people haven't experienced them which is the most ironic aspect of it it's like something having penicillin but they won't let you try it yeah because you know they don't use it themselves no and we know that uh such things as ibigan exist there is a way to interrupt opioid uh addiction and the addiction process this is a a potential cure for uh the many millions of people who are currently opiate addicted I gain therapy has been uh working out miraculous results for people it helps them turn around their lives and uh to uh stop

102:03kneading the junk in two to three days yeah yeah it's it's a one treatment it's literally miraculous we know it exists it's uh you know the Department of Defense ought to be using it for our poor vets that have returned from an unrighteous battle the whole cause of their suicidal Behavior I believe is because they were told to go by into an unrighteous battle it was a war waged on lies and only to create basically to kick a kick a hornet's nest you know to keep a endless war going it's working pretty good well post-traumatic strep sorder what's really fascinating about it is um that there's this reaction to stress to intense stress traumatic situations and that your body has this this almost this intense anticipation of a constant Battle of constant stress and that that can be interrupted and that this is this really no other method I me you can go to therapy all your life and slowly

103:12perhaps slowly erode the memories of this and give yourself some psychological tools to manage these experiences but as far as like something that can sort of stop it in its tracks there's never been anything that's demonstrated that has the power of psychedelics the post-traumatic stress disorder studies are showing that 85% of vets that have it and are otherwise untreatable are are having success after one treatment and Maps got a a grant to do a second and third trial that means the people the 15% who didn't uh you know really feel relief from postraumatic stress disorder get a second turn and a third turn so it's it's amazing uh many are it's not just the substance but it's the psychological uh therapy uh relationship it's also the reset the reset the control alt delete for the mind the the resetting of the Consciousness that I think so many of us

104:10operate on momentum we we operate on the momentum of our past and that's all we know and it's sort of the the the we we we're connected to that momentum like a safety blanket like we we believe that momentum equals the future and then there it's very difficult to get out of those grooves that are so deeply carved in our Consciousness that's right and almost nothing does it but MDMA will allow you to get that distance and um for you and in order for you to uh transform out of a phase you know the psychologist basically say that you have to be able to look at your subjective state from an OB you know another objective uh observation on that subjective State and so that's literally what's happening with the uh uh MDMA you're distanced from it you can look at your behavior or your uh what happened to you in with more dispassion you can have compassion on the yourself you know

105:16and uh start to forgive everyone involved and it's it's a miraculous uh and lifechanging which then leads to new neural growth uh in both psilocybin and uh MDMA they've been charting that uh there is new neural Pathways uh not only does it just feel it that way but it literally is that way it is changing your mind it's changing your brain wow and your mind all right folks the kickstarter tell people Jamie put that stuff up on the screen show people how to get to it and if you could give out the url.com build anon.com e n t h e o n.com build anthon 923 backers look at this folks U 122,000 626,000 is already pledged bam yeah it's coming days go wonderful art great rewards and we will put this up on Twitter today and we'll put it up on Facebook book today and we'll let everybody know what's up you guys are awesome too appreciate you very much all right ladies and

106:32gentlemen we'll be back tomorrow with Alison Rosen take care see you soon byebye