Dr. Rhonda Patrick

00:00look at him poor he overworked joast check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Jo my day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day by request of Dr Ronda Patrick you wanted to have that music so there you go now that's how we do it for you we do it from here on out how about that because of you we'll do it from here on out music's kind of like you know there's something about it that just makes you feel good it gets a little dopamine or something I don't know little something something has there ever been a study on what exactly music does to the mind like an inspirational song when you're on a treadmill that makes you keep going doesn't it though yeah oh man it makes all the difference for me yeah all the difference I don't know I don't know if they've done that exact study but I'm sure there's been studies that have been done looking at how music affects the brain yeah I just don't know yeah

00:50there's something going on it's 100% right I mean when you when a song that it has to be it has to work with you oh yeah you know what if it's a song that what's your song like Flash Dance what I feel it I that's good I really like jam I like jamming out to the stones I really like the Rolling Stones yeah and I also like it when it's like you know maybe some ACDC like on like I want to I need some motivation to like push past that yeah that's what I listen to in the T in the U cryogenic chamber I listen to Back in Black because it just seems like a good song for that dude this morning I after I did a workout I I did a cold shower um and I was like singing in the cold shower because it was so cold but it was like me singing and I was like yeah no R and Ne my brain loves it yeah yeah and like Dan was like trying to record it for not like video but like audio he was

01:45like trying to record it for Snapchat but he failed miserably and um but I stayed in for 5 minutes and the singing was like yeah it helped me push past that this is cold as so you did it just for the norrine just for the did I say that right yes you did thank you I did I did it I did that plus I I tried doing like high-intensity workouts so I was trying to Sprint faster than I usually do so I like to do a lot of aerobic I do aerobic and I like to mix it up with some resistance training for different reasons in the same day um I usually do mix it up um but not always it depends it depends I like to I like you know sometimes I'll start off with a run and I don't I don't do like long long runs it's like 2 miles you know enough to like get some um brain Drive neurotropic Factor growing which is a growth factor that helps you grow new neurons that's been shown to happen with

02:40more of aerobic type of exercise but then the high-intensity interval training like sprinting or I'll do body body weight squats or I'll do push-ups or you know these backward types of push-ups that whatever is going to like you know get me doing that high-intensity sort of thing where you're you're actually producing lactate um because your body is using glucose since you can't get oxygen to your muscles quick enough for how quick you're like you know applying Force and and putting this Eric energetic demand um you use glucose and you don't use it inside the mitochondria meaning you don't you don't need oxygen so you do it without oxygen and you make lactate as a b byproduct well lactate has been shown to like increase dramatically a lactic update into the into the brain increases dramatically upon um that type of exercise and it's lactate that's fueling

03:31norepinephrine release so like you're making more lactate to make more norepinephrine in your brain so and norepinephrine is um it has an immediate effect of U making the connections between your neurons stronger so that you remember things better um and so that you learn better and you remember better it's called long-term potentiation so I was like I need my brain to work today I'm going to do that stuff yeah whereas the the arobic type of exercise has more of a a long-term effect because you're making more neurons uh but those those neurons take two weeks to mature so like the aerobic training that I did those effects will come two weeks from now or I'm I have more neurons but I you know so the immediate effect of the lactate and making more no NE is happening right now because right now the connections between my neurons are stronger so and plus it also makes you feel good um it

04:22uh that's crazy there's a physical effect like that there's a physical effect of your brain actually functioning better like there's a direct mechanism involved and your brain functioning better because of exercise oh it's so I have been so obsessed with this lately like this and I know that I've like probably we've talked about this before and I talk people probably get sick of me talking about it but this concept of stressing your body stressing exercise most people think exercise is good because the exercise itself is good no the exercise exercise itself is not good it's actually very stressful on your body um what's good is the stress response the body we've got a hardwired genetic program that is conserved in Plants insects bacteria um you know primates humans you know we're we're all we all have this response to stress and that response is to try to survive I

05:22need to you know I need to stay alive pass on my jeans obviously the stress response is much stronger um younger when you're young younger or the earlier in life because your body knows you have you're not old enough you know to reproduce for whatever you know hormones and things like that that're not being produced but um so the stress response which is like exercise causes stress thermal stress like heat cold and then there's all these like compounds in plants that are uh stressful to us that can induce this but it's almost like the brain is preparing for the next time it's going to encounter stress it's like okay this is war I got to gather up the troops I got to get this Army we got to assemble this Army because that stress is going to happen again I got to be ready for war so it kind of makes sense that you're you you're going to have a very profound

06:10and positive effect in your brain and also in other parts of the body I'm you know the exercise itself um it's funny because a lot of people do it to lose weight or to mostly to lose weight or you know become sexually attractive muscle mass which has other very important physiological you know effect but people do it because they want to look good um and honestly a lot of there there are a lot of people that say well exercise doesn't really play an important role in losing weights nutrition you know what they're right but exercise has a very important role and that role is to to cause your body stress so that you activate all these really good and awesome genes that are helping you deal with stress and guess what stress is happening right now every time you breathe in oxygen you're making stress you're you're generating byproducts um that are very dangerous so

07:03so exercise is good it's definitely good I just get freaked out when people that are really smart don't get into exercise and I just I always feel like that's just they have a blind spot you know there's there's a blind spot where they don't want to discipline themselves to to actually do the work they they just find it Troublesome or maybe they connect it with jocks or people that were when they were in school you know there's there sometimes there's that connection yeah they probably don't realize the the anti anxiety effects yeah they have I mean it's some of the the anti- I really also do it because I've got some kind of like hyperactive um stress respon like stress hypo hypothalamus pituitary axis where you know I'm I'm prone to be like is it there's a tiger there's a lion I'm like you know it's always kind of like I'm I'm ready I'm ready to fight you know

07:52something's coming to get me sometimes when I'm really stressed I'll get night terrors so like I'll wake up screaming scare the crap out of to um Jesus really not it used to be a lot like when I was in graduate school and I was really really stressed I would wake up and I would just I'd scream I thought there was like someone coming to get me and you know some there was times where I actually injured myself too was like I flew across the room because because I thought that there was someone coming to get me so so that like more than once oh yeah yeah I like hurt my wrist I hurt like my like some tendon back here I broke a mirror Jesus yeah is this like once a month once a week well nowadays it's like almost non-existent I would say it happens once every maybe four months but there was a time not too long ago like three years ago where I was doing it at least a

08:51couple times a week once once a week for sure that's so weird I I've always Associated people that are like really paranoid about fear about danger rather with intelligence because it's like if you actually pay attention to the world around you you realize how vulnerable you are and you how many random things can happen random accidents bizarre occurrences run into the wrong people the wrong place at the wrong time you know and we're so easily damaged I'll take that as a compliment but I actually do uh uh I think there you know there's definitely something it's it's kind of an OCD Loop sometimes and I and I'll get that were it just and it's so bad like you just get going you know I think I even even talked about on the podcast before like there was a time when I was scared to drive like and even now I I I drive but I feel most comfortable driving in a

09:42place that I'm very familiar with but if I start to let my brain think about it it's like driving's scary yeah well it should be if you look around all these people that are texting too so few people are giving 100% of their attention to the road these days there's so much going on yeah self-driving cars I'm actually looking forward to that but well they have them now yeah I mean well they're not they're not ubiquitous they're not they're not you know people aren't using them well my friend has one and no he he drives with it it's the new Tesla you press two buttons on it and it literally drives in the highway it turns on the yep yep he sits back he doesn't even put his hands on the wheel he's like it's the craziest you've ever seen in your life Tom Papa Tom Papa has it too I thought it was just there were the new Teslas were only allowing to let you park I didn't

10:29they drive on high the newest versions of them drive on the highway I have two friends that have them and you press I guess there's a button a navigation button you punch in the information and then you press it twice and this sucker will drive you to where you need to go that's pretty cool yeah it doesn't work on shitty old roads though like Tom Papa was talking about Laurel Canyon because Laurel Canyon's got kind of like it it goes by computer sensors that are detecting the lines based on the cameras that the car has so the car has these external cameras they they see the lines and then they they adjust accordingly but when the lines are really wonky like if if you're going over Laurel Canyon I don't think I have it's really shitty um the road's kind of bumpy a lot of potholes and the the lines are really blurry they're worn out so on that like a road like that on roads like that yeah

11:18I'm sure you have but on a really good road it works great mhm like it just drives I'm I'm dude I'm I can't wait I'm in sign me up yeah but I want everyone else to be in cuz I'm actually afraid of everyone else that's even like coming into la like we you know driving La I don't know people here are crazy drivers yeah I've saw like people swerving I mean just constantly swerving I I don't know if people are just really aggressive because there's so many people and you have to I don't know that's ex I've noticed it well there was a study there's an episode a Radio Lab about this they did a study on volume of people in cities and and what effect the volume of people has on uh how many syllables per minute they say and how many steps per minute they take and there's a direct correlation worldwide between higher populations and like you can literally guess if you if you set up

12:13a camera on a street and you record all the people walking by and you get you know a good number of people and you calculate how fast they're walking and then you record them talking just from those two pieces of data you can tell how many people are in the city like you know let's see if I can guess so if there's more people in the city do you walk faster and talk less no you walk faster and you talk faster oh you talk faster you talk faster and you walk faster both of those things but there's the direct correlation so they're talking they're looking at the speed of how you talk not how frequent you talk exactly okay exactly how fast you talk how quickly you walk because I feel like the faster you walk the more you're like I got to go go go go go the less likely you're going to stop and talk to someone you know what I mean so it's kind of like but it's just like you know hey man

12:58I got to go you know yeah where you going H dude we got to go downtown there's a lot of going on see you bye yeah you know this that whereas if you go to the middle of rural Tennessee well hello well you what's your name Dr Ronda well very nice to meet you Dr Ronda what kind of doctor are you I guess that could be why uh there's sort of a uh stereotype that people in the South are a little friendlier maybe they just maybe that's why there's less people they have more time you know more time I know I get in this Loop where it's like I'm so busy I know you're super busy where it's just like dude I don't have time I got to go I got just I got I'm trying to get out of that yeah it's I think it's a good balance you need a balance you know there's you you need that drive that motivation it's good to like you're obviously doing something productive that's contributing to society you

13:46you're fulfilling you feel like you're fulfilling something um but also then dude life just goes like it goes quick quick it goes quick and you know I'm almost 50 I'm 48 I'll be 49 and August and then like this is like my body works great now but for how long you know nobody's body works great at 70 it just doesn't they're all shitty they're all ah everybody's like holding their back and their knees hurt when you hit 80 who's an athlete at 80 who's doing cartwheels at 80 and and and you know and doing 20 chin-ups in a row it's just not happening you know I used to Surf with a guy um back when I was in college who was he was a surgeon he was doctor we called him Doc and uh he was pushing 90 I don't remember like 88 89 or he you know we rounded up and it was like he's 90 but he was out there surfing catching waves now I'm sure he wasn't like competing um but I I do

14:44think that the more physically fit you are and the more you know throughout your life and the better you eat these things are all going to affect the way you age they're all going to affect you know how much pain you're in you know all that stuff and obviously losing mus muscle mass is a big thing you know starting in mid middle starting at 40 humans start to lose like5 to 1% or something like that a muscle mess per year uh just without without doing anything that makes sense yeah I think that that's probably one of the more difficult things to gain as you get older so if you can maintain it you know you're way better off because if you just if you're out of shape your whole life and then all a sudden you're pushing 60 and you're like you know what I need to get to the gym well it's so hard to make game it's so hard to to do you know any sort of like real

15:32resistance training on a regular basis and you're going to be so sore it's going to be so hard to build a base this is going to be a much more difficult route it's difficult now and you know that resistance training I it's something I don't know a lot about this but it's it's a topic that I'm interested in you know because I'm convinced that maintaining muscle mass uh is very important as you age and specifically I think that the type the type two type of muscle fibers that you're that you do get when you're doing more resistance training those are the kind of fast twitch I think those actually play a role in like stability like being able to like quickly you know if you like lose your balance or which is important as you start to get older and you become more frail and falling down and breaking your hip can that can take you out like that's a big problem

16:18like well that's another thing that bone density gets increased by muscle resistance training weight training anything squats deadlifts things along those lines that has a pretty profound effect on bone density there's a there's a hormone that's actually released I think from muscle tissue called irisin that is released when you're doing resistance training and uh possibly also during aerobic I'm not sure but it does it plays a role in in helping maintain your your bone density as well as osteocalcin osteocalcin is released osteocalcin then gets into your bloodstream and it pulls calcium out of your bloodstream brings it back to the Bone so you know the thing is is that most of the calcium that we store in our body is in our bone or you know teeth and bonees some muscle but um calcium plays a very important role in the bloodstream as well so anytime we're not

17:08getting enough calcium and I think something like 38% of the US population doesn't get enough calcium like so there's there's a huge you know percentage of the population doesn't get enough calcium um whenever you don't get enough your body actually pulls it out of the bone and brings it to bloodstream so that it can play an important role in um endothelial cells and making sure they don't get too stiff and stuff osteoporosis comes in yeah because as you age if you imagine a lifetime of chronic you know calcium quote unquote inadequacy so you're you're never you're never getting enough of the calcium um every day eventually that's going to start to build up and you're going to keep pulling it out of your bone you're going to keep pulling it out of bone you know there's there's a couple of things that regulate that that's one just you know obviously just not getting enough

17:51calcium so you keep pulling it out of your bone and the other thing is not getting enough of the so doing doing the types of um exercises that you need to do to you know make sure you're releasing these hormones that are bringing calcium to the bone that are you know doing that um and also certain dietary factors can play a role in that so making sure that you're you're getting enough vitamin K so vitamin K1 is found in green plants it plays a role in blood coag coagulation when you have enough of it for that blood coagulation then some vitamin K stays around the bloodstream and activates ostocalcium and other genes that are able to pull the calcium to the Bone uh vitamin K two never really goes to the liver and that's um something that's found in fermented sort of uh bacteria make it so like you can find vitamin K2 in the western diet like cheeses blue cheeses

18:41fermented cheeses have a higher amount there's some in organ meat like Liber um but NATO fermented soybeans are the highest fermented soybeans Nat is that yeah they've got like if you're comparing like cheese or even organ meat to natto looking at K2 levels there's no comparison Nat's got a huge amount I've never even heard of that stuff it's pretty big in the Health Community um it's also high in something else called spermine which um is able to clear away damaged cells in your body and it's called through a process called autophagy so we're always getting damaged cells and anytime we have a cell that's damaged damaged cells occur um you know just just from normal metabolism but as our tar start to get shorter um the tar always take the hit so tar are those tiny caps on the end of your chromosomes and they always are like sacrificing themselves because they

19:38don't want your DNA to get the damage because if your DNA get gets the damage it could lead to cancer so they um take the hit and as they start to get shorter it accelerates their shortening because they already get shorter each year then what happens is the cell becomes what's called ccent and what that means is a cell just sits around in your bloodstream or in your kidney or your liver or whatever organ we're talking about and it's not really alive so it's not met metabolic but it doesn't like go away it's not dead so what it does it just sits there and it starts to secrete um pro-inflammatory cyto kindes which then activate nearby immune cells to like fire away nasty chemicals damage more cells so what happens is you start to damage nearby cells you can think about like have you ever noticed like when you get a gray hair so gray hair you'll get ccent um melanocytes which

20:25are the the cells that produce the pigment you'll get one that's ccent so it's just kind of sitting there and it so causes a hair follicle or hair to become gray and then all the other C hair cells around nearby you always get them like near each other and part of that has to do with the fact that the ccent mocy in this case which is you know in the hair follicle is secreting all this nasty stuff that then damages other nearby um hair cells wow that's fascinating so oh so anyways back to the spermine the spermine actually clears away way it it it activates this whole genetic system we have in our body called autophagy which is like self-eating so we start to like eat the cell and like clear it away and recently like within the last like month a study came out where um scientists actually engineered mice uh using crisper technology to clear away all the every

21:18time they had a senescent cell you and I are getting senescent cells right now like right now sorry Jamie it's happening it's like it's happening all the time um but but the these researchers did This brilliant experiment where they designed um they were like okay a ccent cell has a certain marker on it and so they then said okay when this marker gets expressed I want you to like have the you know have the these immune cells go and clear it away and eat it and so every time there was a ccent cell the immune system cleared it out and the mice ended up living 30% longer than their normal lifespan pretty cool wow so autophagy it's called it's pretty cool and there are other things that actually increase it um veratrol R Resveratrol from it's it's a one of those plant compounds that's this has been a recent Obsession of mine but plants make like natural insecticides and you know for millions

22:14of years plants have been figuring out a way to like wart off insects and fungus and you know cuz they they also want to stay alive just like we do and they they don't actually make enough of this like these chemicals to kill the insect it's kind of like just go away so they often affect their nervous system um and just kind of make them go away but what's really cool is that these compounds and plants and there are so many different ones actually have a hormetic effect on us so that hormetic effect being in small doses it activates our whole stress response pathway like exercise does and so um batol is actually made in grape skins and also blueberries make to a much less degree but it's made to W off fungus and uh Resveratrol has been shown at least if in in a in a high dose like, milligrams a day to clear away it activates it actually activates this whole genetic

23:10pathway that gets activated when you're fasting fasting is another type of hormetic stress so when you're fasting you you cause damaged cells to um you know clear away you also basically start to turn on all these genes that help you deal with stress because your body's like oh my God I can't I don't have food I you know I need to deal with this so you activate all these really good you know genetic Pathways where you're making more antioxidants you're making more anti-inflammatories you're making more brain cells you're preparing um just everything good um so ratol kind of is thought of a like a mimetic of fasting in a way because it activates like one of these Pathways that gets activated and it changes gene expression I've been very skeptical of the Resveratrol literature for quite some time um back in 2003 or so when it was uh first first kind of came into the

23:59Aging world I was very skeptical of it mostly because a lot of the studies that have been done in animals where they feed animals res veratrol they feed them such large amounts that are just like not relevant to humans so I was like well so what you know but the more I've been reading about it recently The more I've become a little more convinced that there actually may be something to to this rral it's activating this pathway called ct1 which is globally changing gene expression it's epigenetics it's it's it's activating all these good things and deactivating bad things and so um there's really it's really interesting there was a study that was published not long ago a couple years ago that was done in monkeys where monkeys were given a high sugar diet and high sugar plus high fat which is a bad combo and they gave them Resveratrol you know either gave them Resveratrol or

24:48didn't and the monkeys that did not get Resveratrol um their arteries were like really stiff that caused their arteries to stiff by like 40% but the ratol Resveratrol completely like neg that so I was like wow maybe I should start looking into the r veratrol again cuz it's a little it's a little interesting but um there's so many other plant there's a book that was written by an Indian scientist called plant an anti-feedant and it's a very dry I mean it's a textbook so it's not like something people like read like for it's a textbook really but what he what it does what he does in this book there's like over 900 different chemical compounds in like a variet of plants he's a a plant specialist so that's his specialty and he categorizes like over 900 of these compounds where these these compounds are you know potentially going to induce a hormon response and so I

25:42know several scientists are actually using some of these compounds that are at least listed in this book to study their effects like in mice and eventually in humans but like some of them like um plumen plumen in black walnuts and it's been it actually causes a slight stress in our brain and um it has been shown in mice to protect against es schic stroke because it's like it activates all these good things that protects against esic stroke um there's another one called galantamine which is in Snowdrop flowers gamine uh is it also stressful in the brain like I said these these plant compounds are designed to Target insect nervous system so it's no surprise they're affecting you know the nervous system of of mammals um in fact in this case humans as well galantamine increases acetylcholine production in the brain and um acetylcholine plays a role in learning and memory and it's actually

26:36given to Alzheimer's patients galantamine to help them you know remember things to help them with their to improve their memory but it's it's it's just one of those natural insecticides acetylcholine is a neut Tropic a lot of people take acetylcholine just from memory well the thing I like about the getting it from um getting it from getting it from a hormetic type of response versus like let's say someone designed a drug to um to activate the acetal choline receptor is that you always have these like biological feedback mechanisms when you're when you start to activate a receptor in the brain pharmacologically your brain your brain knows your brain's like oh I'm getting a lot of this stuff that I don't usually get a lot of I'm going to stop making as much of the receptor the receptor is what's necessary to have the physiological response so your is like

27:27oh I'm just going to stop making as much of this receptor but then what happens is if you don't give it that signal if you don't take that drug then you've got less of that receptor and so you're going to have massive like withdrawal it's going to be like crazy because now whatever acetyl choline you do make it's not going to have much of an effect because there's less of that receptor there to actually bind to it whereas when you have something like galantamine something that's um hormetic inducer what's happening is you're actually you're not actually doing anything to acetylcholine neurons or to to uh the the receptor or anything directly it's slightly it's slightly toxic and part of the way your brain deals with the type of stress that it induces is it goes oh this is the kind of stress I need to make I need to steal coling for this for whatever reason whatever you know these plants

28:20are doing different things for whatever reason the galantamine is like the one that says okay acetylcholine so your body is it's a response to something kind of like triggering it you know and so you're not going to have that feedback mechanism where it's like so if you take it in a pharmacological form or far pharmaceutical form yeah I'm just saying a lot of you know I mean the classic example would be uh opioids right opioid painkillers so when you're taking an opioid painkiller what's happening is there's a couple of different opioid receptors in the brain and the opioid painkiller is kind of like a more morphine derivative which is sort of like endorphin it binds to something called the MU opioid receptor which is what endorphins bind to and that's endorphins make you feel good that's also part of the reason why you exercise why you you know you're you're

29:10wanting that endorphin release um what happens when you start to like make a drug like morphine derivative type of drug that goes and directly activates that receptor binds to it is that receptor the MU opioid receptor you start to make less of it and that's been shown when you when you give morphine drugs you downregulate you make less of The receptors so now what happens is when you don't have that opioid drug you know let's say you you had you know this much receptor you start taking the drug right and now your receptor's going down here right and so now if you don't have the drug you're down here and so any endorphin you make isn't going to do much you're like oh man I need more of that and you know so you keep having just to get back up to Baseline just to get back up to normal which is why you can have addiction addiction can be very common with those types of painkillers

29:54because of the effect on the receptor new opioid receptor so that's you know that's one of the problems and interestingly enough there's another type of opioid receptor called the Capa opioid receptor which um I've I think I've discussed with you before on one of the podcasts because uh cap opioid receptor is sort of the opposite of the MU opioid receptor because it actually um when you make something in your body called dorphin it it's responsible for a dysphoric feeling whereas mu opioids euphoric you feel good dysphoric feeling is the Capa opioid you make dorphin because uh it cools your body so when you're hot when you're when you exercise when you elevate your core body when you sweat that's that's a good sign when you're sweating you're making dorphin when you sit in the sauna you're making dorphin and you know when you're working out hard enough that you're sweating

30:47you're physically you're uncomfortable right you're like damn it sucks you feel uncomfortable and the same goes when you're sitting in a in a hot sauna and you're you're sweating you're getting really hot man you're just like this you feel dysphoric like that's that's what's happening is dorphin is binding to the cap opioid receptor well the really cool thing about this whole pathway again comes coming back to feedback your biology is so smart it always like figures out a way um when you start to act when you start to activate that cap opioid receptor your body's like whoa I'm getting a lot of this bad stuff I need to like make more of these good receptors because I got too much of this dysphoric so it actually causes more causes your body to make more mu opioid receptors and it makes them sensitive so then the next time you release endorphin you know you work out boom it feels even

31:36better and it lasts you know so that's part of the reason why um I know that there's certain drugs that are used to treat um opioid addiction uh activate the capoid receptor pathway exercise some people use sauna I I don't think they understand the mechanism but so because anything that's going to help you with dorphin because people that are taking opoids opioids opioid painkillers their mu opioid receptors are already like down down down you you want it back up and dorphin activating that cap opioid receptor will do that it's been shown in multiple studies you know so kind of went on a little rant there but it's there's a few things I wanted to ask you but I didn't want to stop you um the first one go back to Resveratrol and black walnuts and all these different things do these things work synergistically or do they cancel each other out or is there any problems in

32:29combining them yeah great that's just like you know so the question is synergestic would mean can you can you then H combine two things and have an even more powerful response well the thing is is that because these compounds are are targeting different Pathways um they're you're you're going to have some overlap which will have a synergestic effect but you're also going to have a diverse there's going to be diversity so you know you're going to have the plumen in the black walnuts the glamin and then you get your appenine from celery you know appenine causes your brain to make more neural um neurons neural stem cells um you get the Resveratrol which is like clearing away damaged cells it's also anti-inflammatory and then you go and eat your kale and broccoli that makes something called isothiocyanates isothiocyanates are um very poent anti-cancer so they actually change

33:25genes they they change we have gen in our body that are able to convert a procarcinogen into a carcinogen and um ISO isoo stop that from happening and we also have genes in our body that can deactivate anything that could potentially become a carcinogen that we're exposed to all sorts of stuff like every day so activating those genes is like super awesome in fact it's been shown in mice if you like if you give mice a really high dose of isosine and then you inoculate them you inject them with tumor cells they will not form tumors whereas the mice that are injected yes and there's another study that was done in humans and men men that took around they ate uh 250 gram of broccoli or brussel sprouts so isoi Oates are in the cruciferous family of vegetables so kale broccoli cabbage brussle Sprouts bok choy cauliflower cauliflower yeah all that stuff Brasa those are all they all have iates in

34:21them um actually the iso Oates are formed they're stored in something the pl called G glycosylates and in order to release the isothiocyanic you're eating the raw broccoli broccoli Sprouts have have seven times more because they're a young plant young again comes back to that when you're younger the stress response is more potent because nature wants you to survive so broccoli Sprouts isets are made to wart off you know creatures from eating them so the younger the plant is the more they make of it and so and so broccoli Sprouts I used to actually Sprout them um have you ever tried broccoli Sprouts before I have yeah they're pretty pungent like I've never made them though it's really easy like you you can order some seeds on Amazon um and then get like this like this mesh bag and you put the seeds in and then you wet the bag and you just keep wetting it every day and after about 5

35:38days you'll have broccoli Sprouts so really good on salads um not so good in smoothie I used to put them in my smoothie and it's like it makes me want to barf like it's so gross I mean it's really good for you but it's just like it's so better but then again you know at that when I was doing I I've gone through so many different i' make different smoothies all the time my smoothies are disgusting oh my God if you ever ate my smoothies you'd probably barf you have no idea I have done like broccoli Sprouts mustard greens garlic and then you know carrots and other but that but that right there like the have you ever tried mustard greens I have had mustard greens I've never tried in a smoothie it's burn it'll be like you you'll think you're drinking Hot Chili Peppers why put giant chunks of Ginger and four cloves of garlic four large cloves of garlic four four dude that is

36:25crazy so garlic all right let's finish the isoset but that it all have has to do with these hortic hold that in the back of my mind I still have another question on top of that keep going go go go dude I'm this is my recent obsession is the plant these plant insecticides I really think we don't even know what's in these plants but like you know these isoo men that ate 20 250 grams of it they actually in their urine you can there's a biomarker of um a compound that in inactivates like a certain carcinogen that could be potential carcinogen and they increase that by 10% meaning that they're like doing good stuff basically you know the iso Oates are really good for the brain too it makes something called a type of isoi is sulfurane which is in the broccoli Sprouts it's been shown to like help with autism I mean it because it's it it induces a stress response in the brain and your brain

37:14does all this good stuff um and then there's like appenine in the celery there's uh garlic the alosine alosine is in garlic and alosine is in order to activate alosine you have to um chop or Blend or chew garlic so if you just throw alosine itself is not um sensitive to heat but if you don't if you don't chop up the garlic the enzymes in the garlic alisin ases won won't get activated and and won't release the Allison so if you try to swallow a whole clove is that what you mean if you swallow a whole clove or some people cook with whole cloves they don't chop them uhhuh so if you want to if you're cooking with garlic chop the garlic and let it sit for like 5 to 10 minutes before putting it in the heat really like let it sit out like on a cutting board exactly that because that you'll get the you'll harvest the more most allisin from it Allison's another one of

38:08these plant natural plant insecticides so it it accentuates as time goes on um so it just takes a little while for the enzyme to release it so it takes a few minutes the enzyme releases it even though this plant was picked like maybe a week ago or a month ago or whatever the hell you have to break this the walls of the garlic for the alisin get released but more of it releases over time that seems so strange no it's not that more of it releases it's just that you're you have to give it time to like for the enzymes to like get activated and release it it doesn't take that long I mean honestly if you were to wait like 5 minutes you'd be fine probably but I'm just on the cautious side you know I like to wait like 5 or 10 minutes but yeah so you if you just if you just chop the garlic and immediately it's the enzymes have to get activated and then they chop it up and then the Allison's

38:54released so that just that takes a couple of minutes odd to me that there's a process once it's been picked and it's sitting there it's obviously not alive anymore you know it's sitting in like a little bowl yeah but the enzyme's not active until you break the Garlic's been picked but it's in like a clove thing right you have to open it out you have to get it out of the clove and cut the the cell wall to activate these enzymes when I don't feel good I chew a whole clove of garlic too I used to do that yeah it's supposed to be good for you right it is it's it's antimicrobial they have very very potent antimicrobial activities it kills a wide variety of bacteria talked about that Mera case that you had and I I re relay that to everybody cuz my friend Denny had a really bad case of Mera and I told him about your your situation he had it actually after you had been on the

39:37podcast the last time and I um I told him that his photo insane he's got a photo that I put on my Instagram page of his knee I mean his his knee got within like a couple of days it went from being like mildly infected like what's going on to he was in the hospital for weeks oh wow massive you know IW antibiotics theal aw I told him about what you had done with grap seed extract was it was that first of all I I should probably clarify I'm not exactly sure it was MRSA because it wasn't actually cultured I assume it was cuz it came back like three times but so I probably staff one way or another it was staff yeah and so I I took a very I was taking garlic pills like every hour G pred extract every hour I I tend to is that good enough is the Garlic extract from a pill so yeah the question is um there's there's aged garlic and then there's um just regular garlic Peels and then

40:36there's fresh garlic um it it all depends so some some of the garlic that is aged has alisin in it but it doesn't have other mercans in it there's other mercaptans that are doing other things um what is mer Capitan mer Capitan it's a it's it's another byproduct of these plant you know insecticides and rapitan are um first they they bind Mercury very well so they like will will bind Mercury and like help you excrete it so they bind Mercury that's in your system and you excrete it and they also um they they uh do something in your brain so they can actually cross over the blood brain barrier get into your brain and they're potent antioxidant in the cell membrane which is it's kind of technical but it's hard to find antioxidants that are in the cell membrane itself most of the time they're soluble in the cell so it's actually um very good for your brain um but so I was taking the garlic

41:31oil garlic oil would have it should have both both of those and I was also rubbing it on my sore topically so I was rubbing it on there and taking an Orly grap grapefruit seed extract I was taking G GLE Boba because that was also shown to be um to kill uh different staffle caua strains and vitamin C and I was taking this stuff like every hour wow every hour just overloading your system yeah like garlic was it was like massive garlic um but the the the garlic itself you know it's antimicrobial but also there was a study that was recently published men that had like atherosclerosis they were given 2.4 grams of garlic a day and it actually slowed the accumulation of plaques in their arteries by like 80% because Allison is a very potent anti-inflammatory and it helps um the endothelial cells helps produce inflammation in the endothelial cells it's good it's really good so

42:32Allison it it just goes on and on I don't even know there's so many different compounds but these are just ones we know of you know they're just it's they're doing really really positive and potent things curcumin's one that I've been obsessed with we can talk about that later I take a lot of curcumin I take that every day um I have been obsessed with this certain form of it this formulation of it so I know we've talked about this this before on the podcast but cumin there's a couple of problems with the bioavailability of it first is that like your stomach acid and your intestines like you just it can't get past that very well so it doesn't actually get absorbed and whatever does get absorbed it's like immediately cleared because your body's like uh toxic no go away um so taking taking curcumin which is in turmeric right it's in the the turmeric plant um that

43:23is you can be taking it but not getting a lot it's not doing a lot so so um there's this new formulation I don't know how new it is it's new to my mind nond uh where they take the curcumin and it's put in a phytosome which is sort of like a liposome um but it's a little different so liposomes contain a chemical compound like in the middle of it so they have like a a phospholipid kind of complex that contains the compound and it it's supposed to increase bioavailability because it gets past the intestinal system and also it it can just fuse with your cell membrane and just deliver the contents to the cell so it can bypass Transporters and all this other stuff phytosomes are very similar they also have this phosph like this phospholipid complex in this case they use phosph tial choline but it also like disperses the compound throughout and supposedly it like is supposed to be more

44:16bioavailable I don't know if that's really true um but I have been reading some published studies using this certain formulation of curcumin in the in a phyto Zone which is phospholine and the formulation has got a patin name it's called mariva but you know if there is cumin in a in a liposome it's probably working the same way I I I just doubt that dispersing the molecules like within the the actual liposome makes that big of a difference it's it's more about getting past so what this does is it gets you past the absorption issue and it also gets past it because it fuses with the cells quickly it gets past um um some of the other you know getting rid of it quickly issue but I've been taking it like I've been taking um at least a gram a day gram a day of it and uh what got me really hooked on it was a couple of studies that came out clinical studies that were done well

45:12first there was one that showed um people that were like running downhill like exercise some sort of running downhill that caused delayed onset muscle soreness to happen so whatever it was about the running downhill pounding deceleration is running downhill is rough it's actually easier to run uphill on your body sometimes than running downhill is I don't know about your brain though yeah your brain's like ah like no I'm done yeah yeah um but it's it was shown to reduce the um the delayed onset muscle soreness by like twofold taking one gram a one gram twice a day isn't that kind of subjective though when you say like reducing soreness it's so hard to gauge it is absolutely that absolutely is subjective and same with the other there's another publication where people were given there's a not there's a more quantif Quantified publication but um this was

46:04that was done in people that had like osteoarthritis arthritis they were given one gr um I think it was just one gram a day not two grams I think it was one gram a day and it it actually reduced uh their inflammatory markers by like 68% it reduced their symptoms of course but also there it increased their Mobility so they check their Mobility increase their Mobility like fourfold so they're actually moving more wow you know and so that's but it's it the reason maybe because of the infl anti-inflammation properties curcumin is very very potent anti-inflammatory way more you know it acts very different than like typical anti-inflammatories do um but there was a study done in mice where mice were given like a very high dose of not this formulation just regular curcumin they're given like 100 migr per kilogram body weight which is like insane it's like eight eight grams for 180 lb Meal

46:59which is a lot I mean it's a lot of curcumin that's what does that look like in your hand big pile probably yeah right like a c ball yeah I mean I did see cuz I was kind of concerned about toxicity I did see one study that was done on people that had cancer they were given eight grams of curcumin a day for 3 weeks and there was no side effects I don't know it's a lot it's a lot uh I personally think the phosph tile coing complex is a better approach and there's only one proprietary formulation of that I think there's an mariva and there's another one someone recently shared with me long longeva so would you recommend the standardized stuff that you get at a regular vitamin store or no I think I I actually think the fos pedal coing complex is um is superior because of the bioavailability issues and because it is you know fusing with your cell membrane

47:58and getting just the biology all makes sense plus there's actual studies showing that it works and you know there was another study so this mouse study where they gave him eight grams um what the whole point of the study was was they injured the mice they like they they did some sort of force it's so up they put force it was so messed up now you have no idea how many mice I've killed like in my my my scientific career I don't do it anymore I used to I killed hundreds of mice in grad say this online the vegans will come it's for medicine I would Harvest that I would K they don't care you're a speciesist it was so awful Joe like the awful part about this is like so I used to go and and kill mice to get their organs so I would get their livers which is one reason why have a hard time cooking liver cuz I'm like oh erodent liver oh no cuz the consistency is like

48:46the same as beef liver um I get their liers and thymus and spleens but what the sad part was is that I'd gas them so I'd CO2 them and uh as I was doing this like every day it was like fine and give me some ice I'm going to guess and you know I just I didn't care I mean I was one of those I don't know what you call it but the thing that monsters well here's the scary thing first of all when I first started doing it it was really hard and I felt really really bad like tears like I was sad I was I was like I can't do this like you're you're not going to get your PhD I'm like okay I'll do it I'll do it you so I it was hard for me at first I totally got used to it where it was like nothing like I didn't even think twice I just take a handful of them put them in the little box and I'd gas them I mean it was I know God so up it is but and here's the other like like scary

49:36part is that then I would have long periods of time I'm a very empathetic person though people it's like I really am just that'd have long periods of time when I didn't kill the mice and then I'd have to go back there so like months would go by and then I have to go back and do it and all of a sudden I was like I can't do this and I couldn't watch them they'd start like breathing you know and trying to gasp for air and I just felt awful and so I'm just glad I don't do that anymore I moved on to humans take the blood you take their blood but they it's better for them that way it's better yeah you're helping them so you know the the Mouse stuff man it was there was you like when you have to do something and you know I was Medical Science I was doing cancer research I wasn't just like doing it for fun but it was definitely um a strange feeling to like feel that desensitize sensitize or

50:26I'm like whoa wait I've been doing this for like four years why am I all of a sudden caring about this again just took a little break yeah because I was doing other experiments that didn't require that I had to kill kill mice and get their liver but so would you recommend taking regular cumin that you get from uh a regular vitamin store do you think there's some benefit in it yeah absolutely some but it's just not as much you're just not going to get as much because first of all you're not going to absorb as much of it and second of all you're gonna you know clear it away quickly um but what is there a better formula of Resveratrol I know Resveratrol supposedly there's some of it in wine which they were trying to correlate with the Positive health benefits of drinking glass of wine a day but as far as I understand it's a small amount yeah so a 5 o glass of wine has

51:17about 2 milligrams of veratrol which if you're talking oh the the study I talked about in monkeys they were given like 480 milligrams oh that's you know you're not going to like monkey you're not going to yeah for a monkey and you're not going to like so you're not going to like have that same effect and like I said the the thousand milligrams was for the clearing away the autophagy clearing away damaged cells but you know these are these are little chem these are these are chemical compounds that are triggering something in our body and whether it's 2 milligrams or 400 milligrams it's doing a little bit of something and so you know I wouldn't just throw my nose up I mean you're not going to like live 30% longer because of it because you drink wine you know but it's still you're still getting some you know right so there's something to that there is there is something but it's not

52:02what Cher say he was drinking a a box of wine he drank a box of wine a night which they think is like eight bottles how did he not like die of alcohol you know some people have like a weird they have a A variation in their Gene where they're able to actually convert the alcohol to acetone and acetate which is Ketone so they actually get benefits from it's really interesting really yeah whoa yeah I don't have tell he'll uses an ex to keep drinking well clearly he's got something if he can drink that much wine and not yeah when he was telling it to us he was like chalking it off like it was no big deal and we're all like wait what what the like a whole box like even Brian was like a box even Brian a box of wine yeah a box of wine like a box of wine is for like a large family gathering you know alcohol in in high high doses like that it's not good you can yeah no you're going to start

52:55killing neurons you're it's yeah it's it's not good you shouldn't do the binge where you're taking so much of it but having a 5 oz glass of wine with you know 2 milligrams of Resveratrol may not be as bad and it's probably there's probably some health benefit as well to this the mood altering shift of the relaxing of having a glass of wine I I've always felt like that's that's something that we shouldn't really uh look past like having a drink relaxes you and just whatever negative B negative impact that alcohol has on your liver or the toxicity isn't it kind of balanced out at least on in low doses by the positive benefit that you get from it being a social lubricant relaxing you things along those lines it makes sense to me I mean there there are so many different conflicting studies out there with alcohol that's good for it's bad it's good you know and and I think it

53:49has a lot to do with genetics and just binge or what else you're eating and just all these other things but yeah if if someone drinks drinks a glass of wine let's say they're like wound up all the time it's like we were talking about this before the podcast but they're always like the Lion's coming to get me you know it's like you know the Lion's coming to get me I got to run I got to fight off this Beast I mean that's the stress response right that's the you're activating your sympathetic nervous system but you know which is good if you're actually out in Africa and there's a line but if you're not having that active all the time is actually it it it prevents some of the like feedback loops that happen in your brain so when you have chronic stress like that then you start to um you start to keep making usually when you're make when you make a stress hormone your body's like oh I

54:34made this that's enough it shuts it off so that stop that goes away so you no longer shut it off and it just keeps going and that can cause you to either be super anxious where you're like lines there all the time or the opposite end of the spectrum where you're like totally um you just don't care about anything uh you know and and you can be like depressed where it's like nothing excites you you know you just you're indifferent so having a glass of wine if that like chills you out and like you're not so you know I I think that seems like you know okay if you're having a glass of wine to to chill out and yeah it seems like chilling out's good right but exercise would probably be a better way to do it yeah what about the is there any benefit to stressing your body through alcohol like as you were talking about these pesticides that plants produce they stress your body you have

55:21this response from exercise things along those lines is there a resp like when I was young I was really dumb I thought that smoking cigarettes might have a good effect on your lungs because it's like lifting weights for your lungs CU your lungs would be like ah I got to process this stuff and it would make your lung stronger like wasn't that I think that was like what doctors believed like yeah well at one point in time I mean I know that was in that movie The Aviator the Lan DiCaprio movie seen that good no no no that's not the one I'm thinking about I'm thinking of uh the one where he was uh if you can no no no where he played um um the that that ran the FBI the guy who wore dresses Hoover yeah J Edgar Hoover when he played Jay Edgar Hoover when he was young leard DiCaprio uh in the scene was with his mom and his mom was telling him you know that you're frail you should

56:20listen to the doctor and smoke cigarettes like that was a thing that they used to doctors to prescribe cigarettes to people to like increase their Vitality well I don't know about I mean I don't know what their explanation was but nicotine yeah nicotine I don't I know you want to I don't want to interrupt but there is one thing that absolutely does happen from smoking cigarettes that does benefit a certain population of people because when you when you put nicotine in your body um it it totally normalizes something called sensory gating which is what your brain does sensory gating is your brain brain filtering out all this other information information that's happening all the time like Jamie's sitting over there he's doing God knows what but I don't care I'm not paying attention because I'm talking to you you know there's noises out here there's smells so it's

57:08like your brain is able to focus in and not like keep all these inputs coming at once well there are people that have you know problems in sensory gating and it's genetically related it's also there's certain dietary factors that can play a role where they cannot do that and so they're getting all this input all the time from everywhere so if they like walk into a room with like a bunch of people they flip out it's like because just they can hear all the conversation it's all coming in at once and it's like sensory overload so a cigarette can negate that nicotine negates it for 15 minutes which is why some people probably are chronically smoking because after 15 minutes man they got to get that hit again or you know it's coming a lot of people that are um schizophrenic have a sensory gating issue and so a lot of schizophrenic actually I I think I'm this is me totally just throwing this

57:54out there I think that's likely why a lot of schizophrenics are chain smokers because they're self-medicating that makes sense but I don't know I'm just that's that's my we're talking about nicotine though you're not talking about the actual Act of smoking cigarette talk about because you could take that in other forms and nicotine is prescribed isn't prescribed to certain heart patients like it doesn't have some sort of a benefit I don't know on heart function I don't know I feel like it does I feel like there's some sort of a medicinal benefit to nicotine itself obviously not in a cigarette form see if you can find that health benefits of nicotine yeah but um my my dumb idea was that it was like it would stress out your lungs it would make your lungs stronger definitely stress them out yeah but is there any benefit like that with alcohol like is there any like stressing

58:37out your body from drinking is there any robustness that would be a side effect of that so here's the thing with anything that's hormetic so anything that is uh the dose is very important you know when you have something that is stressful on the body if you were to be running if you were to run all the time all day every day and you didn't recover you die you know if you to if you were to sit in the sauna or cold or you know so if you were to take like 2 kilograms of bok choy you you know you'd have some problems it's too much the things that are hormetic 2 kogs of bok choy would you up there's pound of bok choy you know how much 2 kilogram is kilogram that's a lot of bok choy yeah what does that look like a lot well a kilogram is 1.2 lbs is that what it is I don't know Jamie Google I think it's 1.2 lb if I correctly so 2 kilog 2 kilogram says it's about a box a box of

59:40a whole box a box Choice box of what like a big box yeah but that's a that's not a real measurement I don't know what a box Bo size of this room that doesn't make any sense I but what is a kilogram a kilogram is 1.2 pounds right or 2.2 PBS yeah is it 2.2 yeah 2.22 2.2 PBS per so 4 kilograms 8 point what is that 8.89 pounds of bok choy what is just Google that what does that look like yeah Google four kilogram of just kilograms to pounds four kilograms of pounds people in Europe are like you idiot you don't even know the metric system you don't even know what the rest of the world uses this is my response is that Google for things like that 8.8 yeah it wasn't hard to get even with my stupid brain so that will kill you no it won't kill you but it might give you goer goer yeah like like it could because um what is goer it it could basically cause hypothyroid whoa yeah really yes that's

60:44crazy well the thing about the isoo sinat which are in bok choy is that they're anti-cancer they're good when you're when you're getting when you're eating your kale and not I'm talking you know two kilograms again it took two that's a lot massive amount it's massive nobody in their right mind would ever eat that much kale or broccoli or whatever bok choy a day but if you did the thing is is that isocit can compete with iodine transport into the thyroid and so if all you're eating all day every day is bok choy guess what your iodine is not going to be getting into your thyroid and so you can have some thyroid problems you need that just overwhelming the amount and this is and this is with anything hormetic I I am going to answer your question but the the the point that I'm trying to make is that a lot of these compounds that are hormetic fasting exercise you know doing cold stress heat

61:36stress these plant insecticides you need the the key is the dose so like you don't want to over you don't want to have a huge huge dose of it you know and with the plants it's really hard to get a huge dose but with exercise you know I'm not I'm not sure that running 50 mil is actually that good it's pretty that's pretty stressful yeah so you know you get the point well with alcohol it has been shown uh that in small doses it can have a slight hormetic effect in small doses well it depends like I don't know if these Studies have been done in humans yet like Irish coffee but like probably like you know like a like a small glass of wine there is a slightly hormetic effect now now keep in mind there are other things that can regulate that you know people are different we all have different you know genes and so for example I cannot recover from a large dose of alcohol like Dan can

62:32because my I have a certain G variation in a gene that does not uh repair damage from to neurons very well you know so there are other things to keep in mind but yes that has been shown in small doses at least in animal models like flies worms um that small doses of alcohol can actually have a hormetic effect and that's with any the class to actually Define a chemic IAL compound as hormetic the the the in science the the definition is like there's this there's a U-shaped curved so when you have just enough of it you get a positive effect but when you go over that threshold you start to have a negative effect and that's that's with that's what stress this when we're talking about Good stress we're talking about we're not talking about exercising all day every day we're talking about exercising you know getting you know pushing past and getting some of that well that's a huge

63:23issue with martial artist with the fighters because they always feel like if they do more they will have more endurance and they'll be able to perform better inside the Octagon or inside the ring or what whatever they're wrestling mat whatever they're competing on and it becomes a real issue with people because overtraining is a a giant factor in in preparation because they get to the point where their body can't recover from the work that it's done and their mind and their their actual their mental toughness and their discipline has actually ruined them CU they've they've gone too far they start getting chronic injuries it's a big issue right you know so there's that Tipping Point we have to realize like what is the right amount of work for and the right amount of recovery versus people who they feel like well if you just push yourself further your body will respond if you

64:11push there's there's a lot of people that have had that attitude that if you can just it'll be hard you might feel overtrained in the beginning but your body will compensate your body will eventually upregulate and get get ready for this increased workload that you've been demanding on it yeah prepare for war well I mean there's some truth to that you know you you do want to push yourself and your body will you will have a strong stress response but you have to recover you can't you can't you can't if you the dose is very important so if you push yourself Beyond it's just like you're not going to have a recovery period like you're not going to be able to isn't it important then to build your base over a long period of time then because you would build your endurance slowly where you slowly increase the base you make sure that your recovery is consistent and then just keep doing it and

64:58monitoring it over a long period of time then once you have a very high base then really ramp it up and then go through like a long-term training camp that makes sense yeah yeah nobody does that though that makes sense I mean that would that makes logically that makes sense and and and even for some of these these uh plant you know compounds too like in that ratol study in the monkeys the the first year those monkeys were actually given us a smaller dose they were given 80 milligrams for the first year and then the second year they were given 480 Mig very interesting right they started and and back to your R veritol like I don't I don't know like I have to there's so many compound there's so many Brands out there that are just utter crap they have like filler and you know you think you're getting eonia but you're not you're getting some some kind of you know magnesium steroid or

65:45something so um I'm I'm interested in the r verol I'm interested in a lot of these other plant compounds I like to get it's one of the reasons why I like to eat a wide variety of plant you know celery parsley you know there's oh there's stuff in like apple peels and in green tomatoes so ursolic acids in apple skin and tomato deine and green tomatoes they actually inhibit a gene in your skeletal muscle called atf4 that Gene actually starts it prevents protein synthesis from happening so it stops your muscle cell from making proteins so inhibiting that means more protein synthesis and that's been shown in mice like if they're given really high dose like 27% orsolic acid and 05% tomato de they can grows increase their muscle growth by 30% wa over what they would do if they didn't have it that's insane 30% but they were giving them a huge dose huge but still that's amazing 30% is

66:35like that's you know steroids can't do that yeah well there's these These are now out in the market as as far you know far neutraceuticals I guess you call them muscle Builders yeah they're all into it but you know but you can eat I like to eat apples I like to I like to make um actually I don't make it I buy it already made but it's to tomao Sauce have you ever tried that yeah it's like really good on eggs and put them on eggs and um every time I'm I'm eating it I'm like ah muscles muscles how bizarre um is is veritol something you should take with food empty stomach how should you take that I don't you know because I've been so skeptical of the field for so long I've not supplemented with it I mean I did for a little while um I'm looking back into it just because now I'm interest now I'm very interested I I there's there's also someone pointed out

67:26to me because I um I did a post on this and they said that Resveratrol was shown to negate some of the high-intensity interval training gains or something I didn't read the study I don't know exactly what that means but um Resveratrol has been shown to actually cause U mitochondrial biogenesis and shift muscle fibers to type one which are more endurance the thing is that Rital is not like an antioxidant it's not like taking vitamin E the difference between taking an antioxidant or even taking like ibuprofen like if you these studies Studies have been done where they've shown that taking like ibuprofen or taking supplemental vitamin E you know after a workout or while you're working out can blunt some of the positive benefits from it and the reason is because when you exercise you are you know you're causing stress like I we talked talked about you're causing

68:18inflammation you're causing you know reactive oxygen species to um form and this is very important for the stress response that's that's why you have a positive effect but if you're taking something like vitamin E vitamin E actually like it's like a sponge it like goes around and like stops he's like oh here's a reactive oxygen specie or an inflammatory and it just stops it you know it socks it up um and and nides you know they they they stop the inflammatory mediators from being produced Resveratrol curcumin you know these plant insecticides they don't work that way they actually are stressful themselves and so they activate you know these anti-inflammatory genes antioxidant genes all this good stuff so it's very different you know than than taking um an an an antioxidant or an anti-inflammatory anlam those those Ides are they're not really good news in my

69:11opinion they're they've been shown to like increase heart heart attack and been shown nides nides yeah there's an FDA warning label on every ibuprofen bottle and that you can buy in theet Market it's that bad for you so well it's non-steroidal anti-inflammatory right that's what ibuprofen is ibuprofen yeah the thing the thing with some of these um it depends on the type of of um enade but with with ibuprofen and other ones so ibuprofen targets the way it's an anti-inflammatory is it it targets one of these enzymes called Cox 2 and stops Cox 2 makes um inflam it makes lucrin and excuse me Trump thromboxanes which cause platelets to aggregate they also cause inflammation it makes this other chemical that's involved in pain so when you stop that enzyme from doing that then you're going to have less inflammation you're going to have and inflammation causes pain

70:08right so so you're going to have an anti- pain relieving you're going to have a pain relieving effect the problem is is that when you inhibit again we get back to biology and feedback loops and you know our our biology we've even though this enzyme Cox 2 causes inflammation it's also an anti-inflammatory at the same time Cox 2 also is important for making sure platelets don't um aggregate too much so at the same time it's doing something that's making them aggate it's also like okay let's keep this in check let's make sure it doesn't go overboard and it also makes something else um that's important for relaxing smooth uh smooth the smooth uh muscle cells in your blood vessels um and also it releases nitric oxide so when you block that enzyme you're blocking the inflammation blocking pain but then the um the the smooth muscle cells become stiff and you make less

71:01nitrogen oxide so which is important to relax blood vessels and that can be bad if you are um stiffening your vessels a lot and you have plaques the plaques can then you know kind of come off and get clogged I have a friend who takes that every morning he runs a lot he runs a lot and he takes it every morning and he'll take it before he runs so he probably oh that's not first of all I'll send you the study where it blunted the gains from exercise like it really is I'm talking to you Cameron hannes get off that yeah I mean women I so there was like eight different clinical trials that were done and and this is what made the FDA put a warning label on all ibuprofen bottles is because chronic use increased the risk of stroke and heart attack twofold and the and the mechan there was a study that was published a few months ago um that was done in animals that showed the

71:48mechanism so it showed exactly what was wrong with inhibiting Cox 2 um I've been very concerned because I know that like almost every female that I know takes it like once a month they'll take it you know once a month is still issue for menr uh if you're chronically taking it every month you're taking it for a week one week out of every month and you're taking it every month so really it should be reserved for a pretty significant injury where you're in real pain and you need in my opinion look I don't know maybe taking it one week out of them I don't it's chronic use and this was this was done in in you know there's eight different clinical studies chronic use to me chronic use is taking it every month so once a month would be I mean it so if you get so drunk that you're up and you're hung over and wrecked once a month that's chronic use then people take that for hangover yeah

72:38I no if you're if you're if you're getting wrecked if you're if you're drinking a lot of alcohol once a month would you consider that chronic use once a month see most people wouldn't most people think chronic use is like every weekend no so once a month is enough that you don't have enough time to recover from the damage is that what you're saying I think that once a month if you are going overboard like that to me um I I and you know I don't really have any evidence that once a month in fact I know there have been some studies that have to look into that I would think that going out and binge drinking once a month is probably not the best thing you know you can handle it more when you're younger um but especially as you get older our our capacities to handle that type of stress are decreased right you know so to me especially as you're getting older you prob not you're

73:24probably doing more damage by doing that what I was getting at would you be as concerned with someone taking ibuprofen once a month as you would be someone binge drinking once a month I'm I am concerned about ibuprofen um but but I don't know I don't I don't know actually I've never heard anybody talk about negative effects of ibuprofen yeah ibuprofen um The Selective Cox 2 Inhibitors are even worse which are I don't know the brand names for them Cox ibuprofen targets Cox too but but it also targets Cox one so it's not as bad as the selective Cox 2 only Inhibitors but um this was big news it's like you know the fact that the even the the FDA even finally was like wait a minute something's going on here we got to at least put a warning label on these IBU proof invol when did they start doing that um probably like eight months ago seven or eight months ago wow that's

74:18very recent when you consider the amount of time that people have been taking IBU Pro yes and I've been very concerned about my I actually got my mom this um this mariva here it is FDA drug study F wow this July uh strengthens warning that nonaspirin non-steroidal anti-inflammatory uh can cause heart attacks or Strokes you're so you're so used to saying things like nides most people are like what the I had thanks for reminding me no worries um the US Food and Drug Administration is strengthening existing label warnings uh that non-aspirin non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs increase the chance of heart attack or stroke wow based on our comprehensive review of safety information we are requiring updates to drug labels of all prescription nonoral andin now that says prescription oh that says prescription but if you but ibuprofen is ibuprofen so if you take a regular pill that has 200

75:13milligrams you buy a prescription it's 800 milligrams I always take four so four is 800 anyway so if you take four Advils it's the same as a prescription non anti-inflammatory if I ever take it which I rarely do I always just I'm a dummy I always just go for the full dose dude I've been so I got my mom I'm cons it's it seems to be a a big problem for women because like I said um they take it for menstrual pain so they're they're prone to like rely on that and like every woman I know relies on it like for it's like you know what a little bit of pain is okay and you actually like I haven't had I haven't taken ibuprofen except with the exception of like if I have if there's some like surgery or something where I'm like you they're required to take it but I haven't taken it um in 6 years like I avoid it and I just I deal with pain you know menstrual pain but and other pain I just like I just

76:07don't it's not it's not that big of a deal you start to get used to it um but I got my mom this this mariva this uh curcumin phosphaline complex and I told her I was like take four of these a day which is two grams because she's got arthritis and all sorts of chronic pain and I have to it's hard for her I'm trying to like get her on the right diet and all that but compliance is an issue but if she starts to notice some changes with something easy then it's like oh I do see this kind of working you know so that's kind of my goal but she said it's been helping with her with her pain and also um she's not like she's more mobile and stuff so just from The Kuman I'm I'm actually like I'm thinking the it's the it's this the so there was a study did I did I did I talk about the study that was done that compared it to ibuprofen so there was this clinical study that

76:52compared people that took uh the mariva curcumin in the phosphaline complex um they took two grams a day and it was comparable the anti-pain relief was comparable to um 800 milligrams of ibuprofen or 1,000 milligrams of Acom Menin acetam Menin can be bad for the liver can cause liver toxicity that's pretty awesome that it was comparable yes and comparable as far as the results through subjective um like what was the how how did they measure it I don't remember was it inflammatory markers or was it like a subjective I I don't think so I don't think but other other ones have me measured inflammatory markers with that curcumin fosle coling but I don't think this spe particular study did I think it was subjective but they didn't know what they were getting it was control it was like double blind control so they were they're getting something um so it's just a matter of like them on a 1 to 10

77:45how much relief did you get that kind of thing I I don't know I have to look back at the study I don't remember it's it's most likely subjective though it's most hard time believing you don't remember anything you have so much stored up in your brain it comes flying out like where do you have room for like friends names and birthdays and stuff is it even Google Calendar um the other question that I wanted to make sure that I uh asked you because we talked about this through email was um I know that you've done a a lot of work on the benefits of sauna and the heat shock proteins from sauna and I was asking you because I I recently not recently but over the last year I really got heavily into hot yoga and I'm like I I wonder if that's what's going on here because I leave these classes and I swear to God a asteroid could hit my car and I'd be like well I guess

78:32I don't have a car anymore satam Namaste like you you get so chilled out from doing that that there's some there's there's something going on that's akin to some sort of a drug response yeah it's I think I I think I I talked about this before because when you're hot when you're work when you're doing hot yoga you're releasing dorphin the reason you release dorphin is cuz it cools the body and your body's like when you're when you're heating the body your body tries to cool itself when you're cooling the body the body tries to Heats itself right so it's so this is what's happening when you're doing when you're doing the hot yoga you're making dorphin dorphin so while you're doing it it's kind of like physically uncomfortable you're holding these poses and you're like ah you know it's hot but when you get out because of the whole effect on the MU opioid receptor you have more of

79:18them that endorphin That You released or that endorphin you're going to release an hour later when you see your kids or whatever good thing happens man it's going to be like awesome it's going to feel really good no it's incredible it's incredible that's what I that's what got me into the sauna in the first place when I was in graduate school cuz I was you me waking up once a week and screaming and like flying across the room punching mirrors and I mean I literally broke I broke a mirror with like my butt wow and I was injured dude I was injured for like wait a minute where was the mirror it was like one of those mirrors that you like buy at Target and it's like you can like a full body mirror to see like oh so you jumped out of the bed and like threw yourself at it well we had it like against the wall but it like wasn't hung on the wall so it was like leaning you know cuz

80:02cheap and whatever just busy whatever it does it's serving a function I can see myself so I like it was kind of close to the bed so I like flew off the bed and like hit the mirror like with my butt and broke it and I was injured for like it was like two months I couldn't run I couldn't do I couldn't do squats I couldn't I was like if I didn't have C from the mirror is that what you're saying by no I like muscle something tendon I don't know I don't know I have no idea what I did all from sleep all from anxiety yes wow that's so crazy but you can see why like when I discovered the sauna I was like wow this is because I would go I would go to the sauna I lived across the street from the YMCA and so the YMCA has a sauna and I would wake up in the morning and I'd go work out or do the SAA both you know so um I'd go and I sit in the sauna for like 30 to 45 minutes I mean I was

80:57pushing it I was so miserable was hot and and there were times where I would like stay in there for 45 minutes I'm not recommending people do this I'm just telling you like what I've experienced and I get out for 5 minutes and then I go back in you know so I was like I just pushed it and I would go into the lab and it didn't matter who was stressing me out he was telling me what to do what or if my experiments were failing and I was like oh my God 6 months of work down the drain you know like I didn't care I was like oh okay I'll have to start over I'll have to rethink this like wow it was so I was like that's when I looked and I was like something's going on yeah something's going on I got to figure it out I want to know and that's when I like started just going into the brain effects on the sauna everyone always focuses on the detoxification and all that I was like dude something's

81:42happening in my brain I don't know why I'm saying dude all the time it's like a nervous thing I'm dude dude do you not usually do that um not really not all the time I'll say dude but not like like not like you're overdoing today I'm over dting you're wired You're Fired Up um so do you think that a similar effect is happening when you're doing hot yoga even though it's not as hot as uh the sauna it's 90 minutes at 104 degrees and you're doing physical activity you're straining anything that's causing you to sweat is going to cause you to release dorphin because you're you're o You're overheating right that's the way your your sweat is supposed to help you cool so you're also releasing dinor there hasn't been a study on hot yoga I get this question a lot there hasn't been a study on Steam rooms there hasn't been a study well there hasn't there's been a couple of studies on hot baths or

82:34jacuzzi but not looking at the brain looking at other things um personally if you just think about the mechanisms I think that it's very likely and if you're going to if you're pushing yourself to sweat if you feel uncomfortable then you're you're you're doing the right thing you're releasing dorphin you're getting the heat Chuck proteins you're getting all that good good stuff so yeah it makes sense yeah yeah so it's and it is very addicting it's also part of the reason why exercise can become addicting people always always think attribute it to the Endorphin release um I actually think it has a lot to do also with the dorphin the pain you experience the discomfort you experience is very important uh because you're actually then having that respon that hormetic you can almost think of as a hormetic response um because the discomfort is what's causing

83:21you to make more of the MU oid receptors that you're more sensitive to the Endorphin you're more sensitive to that um Feelgood stuff it's funny because that's one of the main things that people try to avoid in life is discomfort that is probably if you if you looked at especially lazy people you look at the primary thing they're trying to avoid they're trying to avoid discomfort yep yep like this this morning I woke up and I was like I have to go to the gym I have to go and I have to like I got to like push it and I was running I was doing sprinting on the treadmill usually I I uh I usually Sprint like the last end of my run but I was just sprinting and I was like so I was doing it I was like oh this sucks this sucks but I have to do it because I'm my brain is going to help me the dorphin and also the norepinephrine the norepinephrine which is um You release when you exercise

84:12release a lot of it in the cold I took a cold shower too cold shower was like uh pretty good as well cuz the the cold also norepinephrine you release nor norepinephrine when you're exposed to cold because um norepinephrine causes baso dilation and so when you have baso dilation you actually um are losing less heat I always take cold showers after Hot Yoga it's amazing in the winter because in the winter the water's actually cold cuz the water here is not really that cold because it's California if it gets cold out it's like 50 but when it's 50 the water is actually cold so like after Hot Yoga you get in there it's it's really uncomfortable it's hard to breathe you know but when I lived in Boston there was a guy named Bob cafarella that I used to do Taekwondo with this guy in the middle of January would take cold showers and he would say that it's it's good for the spirit and

85:05he was like the only guy that would do it everybody would just stand there and watch him Bob's going to go in the shower and he would go in the shower by himself and obviously by himself like we're going in the shower with him but this guy would take these cold showers and I just I couldn't imagine why anybody would put themselves through something like that but I guess he kind of knew even back then there was some sort of a benefit to standing in that freezing cold water and just not just mentally as far as like your discipline and your self-c control to be able to stand there and force yourself to do something like that to have that sort of autonomy over your body like that but also because there's there's all these different releases these powerful endorphin releases that you're getting from that yeah it feels good it feels really good is there any danger in going

85:48from say hot yoga class to cry therapy I would love to know the answer to that so I've I've recently experienced um i' I've gone from a really hot sauna like crazy hot I mean it was like 180° fhe 180 yeah I had to wear one of those hats it was crazy hot like the hottest I've ever experienced so I went and I was with an acquaintance of mine um and then I went directly into an ice bath and I did four rounds of this like four and it like the experience itself was amazing like I felt really really good really good like after it's over you fork and during well I was in the cold well once you go in the ice bath and you go back into the sauna like and you're in 180 degre Fahrenheit sauna it actually feels like room temperature and it's kind of like waa this it's there something kind of just cool about it like it you just you feel really really good um I there were points when I started to

86:54get a little laded and spinny so did that with your hand you know where it's kind of spinny and maybe low blood pressure low blood glucose I had you know I don't know something like that but um I'm I'm I'm really wanting to know and I have to look into the literature you know I put I just recently put out a a report and a and a podcast on cryotherapy and the benefits of cold but I really was hoping to find more on going from hot to cold because mostly one I felt so good and the other thing it did is it reset my circadian rhythm completely like I just I went to bed at like 9:30 and I slept like a baby it was like how do you think it did that I don't know I think that there's something I don't know if it was the hot cold or just the cold um so I so I did this around 6 o' so it was like right before bedtime but um cold does you know there is a Circ there is a a regulation

87:50of when your body starts to cool cool itself and it cools itself right before sleep melatonin plays a role in that when you make melatonin it actually starts to cool the body a little bit as well I really don't know Joe I was trying to figure it out people aren't doing studies on it but it was very real and I experienced it and is there a difference between doing cold before you go to bed and doing a sauna before you go to bed as far as the results um doing the sauna sometimes can actually like immediately keep you up but also it's it affects REM sleep and that's been shown in piglets as well and Dan swears like he would have all sorts of lucid dreams I don't I don't really remember that aspect of it but it does seem to affect sleep so lucid dreams from like the heat shock proteins like something probably not maybe maybe something else going on on the brain you also do

88:39release norepinephrine from from heat anything that's when you when you're like stressing your body when you're doing your workout good enough like any sort of stress also a stimulation like novelty releases norepinephrine and that you know maybe acetal choline is being released I don't know you know there there cetal choline it it does have some sort of a positive effect on on uh dreaming right yeah yeah a lot of people report really intense lucid dreams from taking a lot of different neut Tropics but particularly choline someone was telling me about galantamine because I was talking about it before and some someone was like oh this causes lucid dreams I wouldn't have known that but there's some yeah there's some some aspect to I've heard that from 5htp as well 5htp may may be beneficial to lucid dreaming something about that's strange because serotonin in the brain

89:31um gets you out of it it takes you out of REM sleep serotonin does takes you out so if you were going to take 5 HTTP you should take it in the morning then I don't know what the whole halflife and all that I mean it has to like 5 HTP has to then get into your brain and then be converted to serotonin and I don't know so it might actually be good to take get at night and then by the morning rolls around it's done converting it I don't know I don't know okay sorry um what would it take to do some sort of a study like the study that has been done on the sauna for something like hot yoga um how would you do that let's see it depends on what you want to measure so I think if you want to look at heat truck proteins um you could look at them in blood cells so you could measure them in blood cells you could look at you could measure norepinephrine from there's

90:26actually a biomarker of norepinephrine that is called salivary Alpha amalay and it's released in saliva and actually it would actually be really that is would be a marker like if your workout if you're pushing your workout hard enough you'll release more of that Alpha amalay so more more nor NE you can measure that um and then hsps so you just have to have volunteers and then sauna then you have to have a lab people that are going to you know take the blood you have to have Physicians involved and then you have to have people that are going to you know isolate and look at the protein maybe even looking gene expression would be cheaper um I'm doing something similar but not with sauna I've been involved in a clinical trial with blueberries um actually another one of those plant hormetic compounds there's another one in blueberries called anthocyanins which

91:15is really really and blueberries contain a small amount of Resveratrol you were saying yeah they contain a very about 10% of what a grapes skin has so the blueberries what what's really good in blueberries is called anthocyanins and anthocyanins are produced as a response you know they're they're a plant insecticide uh they actually like they bind to a certain Gene it the anthes itself recognizes like a little sequence of DNA and turn and binds this Gene and like turns it on and this gene is called Nrf2 and it's like a master regulator of all these like really good repairing DNA repair enzymes um antioxidant enzymes all anti-inflammatory all these good things um and so I've been involved in a clinical trial for the past two years maybe two and a half years now where um my colleagues and I we've been looking we've been taking blood from people that are they're obese um their their BMI is

92:12about 28 or above they're obese they're insulin 28 is is obese well they also measure no I mean it's BMI is like 30 is actually obese we moved it we moved the BMI down to 28 because it was like we weren't getting enough people uh 30 is technically considered obese wow yeah a lot of obese people then well I mean a lot of people are 30 right you have to consider BMI is not a really good measure of like obesity because people that are very muscular and short may also have a high BMI so you have to also look at waste circumference and other factors which which they are doing um but but there are a lot of obese people there are there are a lot of obese people and we're looking at a certain percentage of them that are right on the border of becoming type 2 diabetic so they're insulin resistant so their body is not responding to insulin but they're not type 2 diabetic clinically yet um

93:05and so we're we're we're getting we're recruiting these people we've gotten 50 of them and half of them are getting a a freeze-dried blueberry powder that's equivalent to two cups of blueberries and it's got lots of anth thein and all this other stuff that's in the blueberries and the other half is getting a Placebo drink which is blue looking and they put sugar in it which is but yeah you got to you can't give someone a placebo and not and not taste like blueberry right is there any benefit to eating actual blueberries versus the freeze-dried powder of course yeah you're getting the fiber um you know you're you're getting probably that's the main thing the fiber and who knows what other compounds it may be not maybe destroyed somewhat by the freeze dry I don't really yeah that's what I would be confused about I've always been confused about that when you see

93:52various freeze dried you know anything or any any sort of dried powdered anything I always wonder like how much of that are you actually getting like what what what's how much of the actual benefit is lost in this turning into a pill yeah so there's definitely some some things that are lost but the specific things that I'm interested in like the ananin are there um but so what I've been looking at there's other people that I'm working with that are looking at um you know markers of inflammation response like all the metabolic parameters I'm specifically looking at um people's damage to their DNA so like we get white blood cells they're frozen down and then I look at the DNA and the white blood cells and see how much damage there is I do it at Baseline so before they start the blueberry powders and these people have a lot of damage because they're obese

94:39obesity accelerates damage to DNA damage to DNA causes all sorts of problems but eventually it leads to cancer um and people that are obese have like a twofold increased risk of multiple cancers there's this ridiculous article that I read where was talking about the positive benefits of being overweight where people were trying to justify being overweight and they were um talking about there's uh certain uh illnesses that people recover from better if they're they're overweight and they were there's very few very strange examples they were using to try to justify being overweight and um and it was also uh the the article was also impartially response to quote unquote fat shaming you know and I'm like boy this is just such a weird justification it's so bizarre that your your very biology your very the thing that gets you through life that people are so

95:35intent on receiving mouth pleasure which is all it is I mean that's what you're doing when you're shoveling food in your mouth you're getting mouth pleasure and then you're getting the response the the physical response to you know whatever sugars or anything that you you you know your your body and your gut bacteria craving but so so much into that you're broadcasting it in the form of this like really misleading article that was just designed to make you feel better for being overweight and to justify these choices that you've made which are terrible terrible choices like there's no benefit whatsoever to being overweight right no I mean being overweight um being overweight is is linked to increased risk for cardiovascular disease increased risk for type 2 diabetes increased risk for cancer increased risk of stroke increase you know it's it's increased RIS of

96:21Alzheimer's disease it's yeah so I mean having an increased risk for all those age related diseases is not good there's dumb articles written about the positive benefits of being overweight I haven't seen those see if you can find some of that Jamie it's it's just people that are fat that are just trying to use confirmation bias and lock into whatever small weird statistic might exist in regards to like maybe they get over like a cold better or something it's like it's really dumb actually obesity starts to cause um immunosenescence because and and problems with your immune system because people that are overweight or obese uh they they have a lot more inflammation in their body and inflammation takes a lot of energy yeah here it is five surprising health benefits of being overweight being overweight carries a reduced risk of rheumatoid arthritis it's cuz your your joints are all

97:17greased up I'd like to see the references on that being overweight means you're less likely to develop dementia being overweight can make a stronger immune system yeah see that's one of the things that I'd read like what no possible to be hold on is it possible to be fit healthy and fat to be fat starian what what does that mean fat staffan what is that what is that word to protect your body from possible harm rendering potential problems harmless even before incursion to explain on a slightly more plain level the cytologists are proposing that your extra bulk works like a blubbery barrier indeed the big men Danny Ross who was stabbed well that's different that's someone who stabbed someone who fell 20 feet and Lawrence Bell who's blah blah blah are portly poster boys for the defensive qualities of flab but that's ridiculous that's like that's like wearing armor you know you're talking

98:12about someone like yeah physically if you're that stop moving that around please if you physically if you have like all this extra fat on your body and something hits you yeah you you've got like a wall between you your actual organs and your your bones and this you know this impact that's so stupid though being overweight is linked to increased longevity and recovery time what no no it's not scroll down Jamie it's not it's actually opposite saying is it okay to to Fat shame overweight men make that larger please kit noes that fat tissue is as well as hormones it releases improves bodily defense mechanisms by providing vital energy reserves and anti-inflammatory agents as a result despite overweight individuals being more susceptible to serious health issues to begin with they are less likely to die from them than those who are underweight or even with healthy

99:08bmis heart disease for example is four times more likely to claim the life of somebody with a healthy BMI than an individual considered overweight this is horseshit it is this is not absolutely obvious there's no studies is this a farce no no what is the what is the website theph but there's a couple other articles too this just the one I figured would have the okay scroll scroll down a little further being overweight can mean you're better in the bedroom oh shut the up this is a fat guy fat guy wrote this hormones found in abdominal fat allow men to last longer in the bedroom I'd like to see the references for any of these statements because actually it's quite the opposite being overweight being obese It's associated with seven years off your lifespan extremely obese is 14 years off your lifespan um obesity is the number one risk factor for you know heart disease

99:57and type 2 diabetes um it also is associated with massive inflammation what's this the Journal of sexual medicine Insight on pathogen Genesis of lifelong premature ejaculation inverse relationship between lifelong premature ejaculation and obesity yeah but you know what that's because obese guys aren't getting laid and they probably jerk off so much they can last forever this is a stupid study yeah this this is an association there but not only that premature ejaculation has to do with anxiety it has to do with a lot there's a lot of factors involved in premature ejaculation and what exactly is premature I mean it's a completely relative and subjective term because if you come and you enjoyed it it was perfectly timed it's not premature I mean it's it's just like you didn't hold on I mean the whole idea of holding on as long is a cultural construct holding

100:47on as long as you can I mean that's just we've decided that that's a good thing I mean obviously for a mutually you know a mutually beneficial pleasurable experience for your partner yeah it probably last longer than you know that's what the woman would like but but what is it's not premature the the the end goal is to try to breed try to procreate right if if you get it in there and as long as you get it in there it's not premature like biologically speaking it sounds like it's pretty subjective their their their Definition of premature yeah I mean what does that mean it's it's like the idea that you can connect all those things and say that there's some sort of a positive benefit to being fat that's clickbait that's what that is yeah there's there's very strong evidence of everything the opposite of what you just read like like I just don't even I I

101:36really just don't even know where they that came from maybe some crappy associative studies that were done but I mean the large body of of the literature shows the opposite but isn't that confusing when you see things like that like in the telegraph that probably got read by a million million plus people or more worldwide probably even more than that that's irritating it's crazy yeah but that those are the kind of articles that people would use to justify their poor life choices and this was this same kind of thing not that article in particular is what I'd read about when someone was talking about fat shaming I'm like come on man there's no such thing as fat shaming look it's it's rude to be mean to people yeah it's rude to like point at someone and laugh because they're fat but to to suggest that someone being overweight is bad for their health is not fat shaming it's

102:21just fact yeah and it's also you're you're trying to help someone you want to say look you know there there have we know mechanism we know there's been studies that show that being overweight causes inflammation it's your immune system is constantly being active and that get crosses into the brain and causes depression it causes anxiety it causes learning and memory problems so you may not be working and that's been shown you may not be working at your Optimum you know being overweight there you could feel better you know so it's it's kind of ridiculous I think I I agree with you and you know I have friends that are overweight and I've always been the person that I'm all I feel like I'm lecturing you know cuz it's always I'm always like and all these benefits and I rattle off all this stuff and all this information and then as a certain point it's like this person

103:10probably gets defensive and doesn't want to hear it but I care about them and that's actually part of the reason I started making videos and and doing what I do with Fitness actually because I I was constantly doing this to friends and family members people I cared about where it was like at least if you put something out there like if you put put a video out there or an article or a podcast or something they don't feel like you're targeting them right so then you can just go oh yeah I talked about that you should go check it out you know and you know what it does it seems because people would get less defensive yeah well it seems to me that there's a certain amount of information just get won't get through some people's wall like they have a wall this is what I like to do I like to eat cake that's it and then you know like hey cake has sugar and Sugar's bad and being obese is

103:55bad and cancer and blood pressure and uh sorry it's not getting in um I'm going home I have some cake it's get it's going to rule like that mouth pleasure that they get from shoving that cake in oh they just can't wait and then the craving you know we had talked quite a bit about gut bacteria because of your experience with probiotics and also your experience with antibiotics from recovering from staff infection and how devastating it was to your immune system I started going down the rabbit hole with uh gut bacteria after that because I just I found it so fascinating how long it took you to recover and how uh common that experience is from large doses of antibiotics how devastating it is to the immune system to uh overall health Wellness um per the way you feel the way like your your mood so many different effects one of the things that I found when um I was eating a lot of

104:52bread and pasta is that I would have a good meal like say I would have like chicken with maybe um some vegetables or something like that a nice big healthy meal and I would still be hungry afterwards for sugar I would like my body I was stuffed like I ate like a half a chicken I'll eat a half a chicken and my body was like we need a cookie I need a cookie come on man give me a cookie like I need some ice cream there was there was there was some gut bacteria craving and that's it's what it seemed like it seemed like some bizarre craving it wasn't a craving like I needed more calories wa were you eating these at this like was this would you typically eat something with refined sugar oh okay well yeah well something this is an interesting effect and sorry if I cut you off but something that does happen when you eat refined sugars like something not a piece of fruit which has

105:46the the fiber Matrix and all these polyphenols by the way polyphenol or plant insecticides it's all we were talking about has all this other good stuff when you take the refined sugar away from that um what happens is when your your gut so your gut digests it um and it refined sugar usually is like a glucose small it's a it's 50% glucose and 50% fructose and that's sucrose and that's what's in table sugar what's in a lot of refined sugars um what happens is that when you cleave the sucrose and and you cleave the sucrose to this glucose and the fructose the fructose itself doesn't get absorbed by all the cells it only gets metabolized in the LI liver and it does something it's that's called ATP trapping so what it does is it it traps ATP which is the source of energy and it does this because it's trying to like do this whole other complicated enzymatic reaction blah blah blah right

106:39but what it does is trap the ATP and this sends a signal through the vagal nerve to your brain I don't have energy and so you don't get satiated and so you when you eat refined sugars now this is independent from the gut bacteria craving stuff you're talking about I'm not exactly sure how all that works but what I'm talking about is real it's ATP trapping and it's it's it's it's something that uh is known to be a cause of why you can eat a bunch of fructose and refined sugar uh and not be satiated and so you have to eat more because your body your brain thinks you haven't been fed because the atp's been trapped it's called ATP trapping wow that's one possibility that could be could been happening it's really it's also why a lot of people that eat a lot of refined sugars with sucrose or high fructose corn syrup is the worst when they eat that why is high fructose corn

107:30Sy up the worst because then so when your gut so the way your gut okay let's just let's compare table sugar suc roast to high fructus corn syrup both are bad but when you compare the two um because Suk gross is got it's got glucose I mean it's got glucose and fructose P fructose corn stup does to it it has more fructose but the thing is is that um when it when the sucrose sees your gut your gut has something in it called sucres which CLE which it takes basically it's it's slower to cleave and digest the the sugar so it's not like a big bolus that your gut sees so it's not as irritating on the gut because it has to First the suit czes have to cleave the suit gross and so like all this stuff is happening whereas when you get the high fructose corn syrup that doesn't happen it's a big Bolis and it's like it it literally like causes a a breakdown in your gut barrier it's like

108:23irritant it's an irritant the same thing can happen if you take like too much of um I mean there's lots of other things that happen but if you take too much like magnesium or something people can get gut irritation it's a big bolus on the gut and it's irritant and that's what high fructose corn syrup does and there's also then the whole ATP trapping thing is like exponential with high fructose corn syrup there's more fructose it's compounded there's a bunch of different factors yeah there's a bunch of different factors of course the fructose is very different in Fruit because the Matrix the fiber it's digested differently it's it's completely different than taking table sugar or high fructose corn syrup who is the monster that extracted that stuff I mean it's so bad how when was that done when did they figure out how to do that I mean they used to do cane sugar right

109:09World War II I don't know I don't know I know there's people that are super into to all that stuff but yeah it's cheaper that's why it's cheaper and it's hidden it's in everything you go out and go to a Chili's and think you're going to eat healthy you order a salad and there's like 60 grams of sugar in their wal dwarf salad because it's all in the dressing High fructus corn syrup that insane okay here it is the 1970 was first introduced to food and beverage industry high fructose corn syrup was first introduced to the food and beverage industry in the 1970s that's amazing that that stuff from 1970 until today so in the the last 40 plus years has become a massive part of our diets the average this was published in it was like the Health Organization in somewhere in the UK whatever they call that there's some Health Organization in UK that that get did a

110:04press release and said that the average 5-year-old consumes 50 grams of sugar a day oh my God sorry yeah 50 grams is it 50 g a day or is it 50 g a year yeah 50 g a day 50 g a day which was their weight it was okay now I'm remembering it was yeah it would be awesome it was 50 g a day which was the average of body their entire body weight of a 5-year-old a year a year so if you have a bag of sugar the size of a 5-year-old that 5-year-old will eat that in a year exactly Jesus and I did some calculations that comes out to like a pumpkin spice latte at Starbucks which has like 64 grams of sugar my God it's it's crazy and God everything there's a particular type of uh gut bacteria that craves sugar and that thrives on sugar though isn't there um you know yeast are are thriving on sugar but they're not gut bacteria there was there was like a uh documentary an online thing that I watched on the

111:04various documentary on different gut bacteria are attracted to so I don't maybe this is I I know that so your gut bacteria what what they eat is fiber mhm um and they're mostly in your colon and so when you're when you eat a fiber deficient diet um proteins lipids you know sugars are all absorbed in the upper intestine but your your bacteria and your gut starve and in order to stop themselves from starving they start to cannibalize the gut barrier that they live on CU it's got carbohydrates and so low fiber diet can cause massive gut you know barrier breakdown it's actually the most in terms of magnitude the most potent thing that regulates gut health is fiber wow so is that like irritable bowel syndrome things along those lines well that can that can happen but you don't have to have irritable bowel syndrome to have your gut barrier breaking down you know you can have a

111:57low level of inflammation not know it um but there are certain types of bacteria that can thrive in the condition now maybe that maybe let's say you have a low fiber diet meaning you're eating a lot of refined sugar so it's kind of like the same right you're eating a bunch of refined sugar and in place of plants and fiber rich foods there's a certain type of bacteria that can thrive on low fiber and it's a type of bacteria that I don't know the name of but they have little flagella things that like move you know little sperm little sperm yeah exactly like that and so they'll like swim up so your bacteria are supposed to be in the colon the very very end of your intestines right they're not supposed to be you're not supposed to have a bunch of bacteria in your small intestine well they'll swim up to the small intestine because that's where the food that's where the proteins

112:45and the sugars and the lipids are all getting absorbed they'll swim up there and this is often referred to as um bacterial overgrowth so BAC small intestine bacterial overgrowth is what the technical term is bacterial overgrowth is actually when your bacteria are starting to grow in your small intestine and what happens is when you have bacteria in your small intestine it releases something called zonulin um and this work has all been done by alicio Fano and he's I think he's at like Massachusetts Children Hospital anyway he discovered this so you know he's a rockar for figuring this stuff out but so when you have this this intestinal overgrowth you release something called zonulin zonulin is also what's released when gluten when your body sees gluten zonulin um it literally like you have the gut barrier and there's like these Junctions with the barrier it opens up

113:34the Junctions the tight junctions um and in people that don't have like Celiac or they don't have a really really poor gut health they close it's like a transient it's like open close open close and so what when they open your inflammatory cells can see the bacteria that's there usually the barrier separates them because what do what do immune cells do when they see bacteria fire away War so the small intestinal um bacterial overgrowth does that and so does so gluten gluten also causes Onin to be released but um so that would cause like bloating and inflammation you know things like that wow God it's just so it's so crazy how much your diet actually affects your overall health and how few people really consider it when they're thinking about what they're eating and the consequences of what they're eating eat what tastes good and your brain your brain health it it's you

114:29know having low inflammation is key for your brain all these different factors that are playing on inside your body like all this stuff I know yeah no I'm eating a a a diet that's high in fiber that's one of the reasons why I actually I eat a lot a wide diversity cuz there's lots of different types of fiber there's you know fiber is not just like one nutrient you know people always tweet at me can I take pectin can I can I take inulin and you know which is a type of fiber and it's like well yeah you can but you know these different types of back so many different types of bacteria and they're they're eating different types of fiber and we don't even know all what each of them are eating we just we know the best thing we can do right now is to get a broad spectrum you know so there's fiber in in plants there's fiber that are called liens or and cellulose um in fruits there's pectins

115:19like apple uh citrus peel have pectins beta glucans are in mushrooms they're in oats um resistant starches in legumes beans there's inulin which is in plants and Al like onions artichokes garlic and all these different types of fiber are feeding different types of bacteria and the best thing you want is like a diverse bacterial set so feeding them all different types of fiber is good plus you're getting all the plant hormetic compounds and then you're getting all the micronutrients you know magnesium vitamin k um folate you know these are things that people are are deficient in so I I I try to do that and then I eat meat I think there was a uh it was a uh now that I'm thinking about I think it was kind of like an infomercial I know you're talking about that candida video yes that's exactly at the end they're selling a product but I don't think I made it that far enough it

116:07was long5 minutes yeah it was really long and it was disturbing you know you're talking about candida growth in your stomach and how your your your gut is responding to all this sugar by this you know massive production of uh or massive here it is so that's what happened sugar the cause of candida candida cause of cancer and sugar has been shown right to accelerate cancer growth yes in fact there there was a study that was just published recently where it like caused breast cancer cells to grow like four times faster whoa four times faster from sugar yeah refined sugar not from my wife's mom she's a lovely lady but she loves sugar she puts sugar in everything she makes kale salad and you eat it like you're eating candy like everything is sugar like you know it's like from her era that's what they did they put sugar on their Corn Flakes everybody put sugar on

117:01everything and they felt like it just made things taste good like you're eating healthy food and it's got a little sugar on it you know spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down remember that yes you know and it's just it's so disturbing that people grow up thinking that this is a way to eat and it just nobody told them nobody warned them and you know she's in her 60s now and that's just how it goes wants to be autonomous it's hard to God it's tell people yeah I've got I've got love member uh loved ones that I care about that are also addicted to sugar and I try I try hard um it's it's it is hard especially the older you get when you're you're stuck in your ways your brain's not is able to kind of change as easily you know so also you don't have a lot of willpower some people are just not good at like saying okay this is what I'm I'm not doing this anymore you know like

117:51this I'm done doing that boom you know I mean I I don't know how other people's brains work so I don't I don't know what the pull is but I know for me when when I try to quit something like I'm going to quit sugar I'm boy that first week or so is hard cuz the pull it's like there's this desire to cheat go come on man one cookie is not going to anything up it's not going to be that big of a deal like there's this pull to have sugar and when I um kicked sugar for I've done it twice now but the first time I did it one of the most disturbing things was like the headaches like 2 or 3 days in I was getting these headaches I was like what oh my God I'm getting Sugar Detox headaches like that's what it was it had to be it was the only thing that was different I was eating all the same normal things but I wasn't taking any sugar anything that had sugar I wouldn't take it and I was

118:38getting headaches you know and most people you if you don't get if you don't have like a a rock solid determined mentality for this type of stuff it's really hard like if you're wishy-washy on your diet well I'm just going to try to eat healthy like my friends have told me that before they try to lose weight what are you doing I'm just going to try to eat healthier you ain't going to do you're not going to do like you have to have like a rigid set of rules you can't say I'm just going to eat healthy because then you'll decide you're eating healthy ah cupcake is not going to hurt anybody and then you'll eat that cupcake and that'll kill all your hard work I I had no idea that you were eating refined sugar like this whole time I thought you were you're always like vegetables meat yeah I would occasionally I would dive in I mean it wasn't like a real problem but it was

119:26enough that see if you eat protein bars like the ones that uh Jamie was eating over there what does that have in it I love those goddamn things these things are great they taste awesome they're called probars I first found out about these suckers when I went uh hunting oh come on is that real this has 21 Grams Pro of sugar in it this is crazy yeah that's what I'm it's everywhere that is it's hidden everywhere that is godamn crazy this is 21 G you're only supposed to have 25 in a day yep exactly the whole day so this this one yummy bar is that's it that's your added sugar for day two or three of those in a setting like after I worked out I would eat two of those like if I was going to in the morning if I was headed over here and uh I didn't have time to eat I'd throw two of those down and a kombucha so the kombucha got 10 10 yeah for grape grape kuch has 10

120:22Plain has five so uh I prefer plain but sometimes the grape was all I had left so I throw down a grape that's 10 I throw down two of those that's 41 or 42 Jesus Christ I mean 52 g of sugar on the way over here which is twice what you're supposed to have in a day and then I might have a piece of cake you know I might eat real healthy and say I'm eating real healthy and and you know someone oh you want some apple pie yeah do you want ice cream on it why not and and then what's that that's probably another 30 40 50 60 70 so you're winding up with 100 plus gram of sugar in a day right yeah and this this this stuff is causing inflammation in your gut it's you know the the more at least with you you were still getting some of the good stuff though it's not like you were eating a fiber deficient diet yeah no I was eating healthy on top of that but even better than than most people that

121:14are eating that stuff 21 yeah this is just crazy crazy this is crazy there's a thing called a Lara bar you ever heard l a r they're so yummy they're so good but it makes it look like you're eating something healthy it's like the the wrapping is Earth toned it's like ooh I'm like I'm doing yoga in a bar this is likeing yeah most of those bars are really candy bars they're candy bar it's candy you know I think Quest Nutrition is probably like if I if I were to say that there's anyone that making makes a bar that's like not a candy bar quest Quest has some decent ones well um Primal kitchens has a really good one it's a nut bar with dark chocolate and it has a tiny amount of honey in it it's less than four Gram I'm I'm pretty sure less than four grams of sugar per bar but it's mostly almonds and dark chocolate like a little bit of Honey those are really

122:07good they're not it's not sweet at all those I like those and a lot of times I'll eat like uh meat bars like there's some bars like what are the ones we have back there those yeah what are those ones we have in the back Jamie what are those things called bars yeah well not just the ones that we sell it on it with those other ones that I bought I bought some other ones that are really good but even some of those have sugar in them it's just amazing how sneaky they are with that goddamn sugar it's in condiments it's in hot sauces and yeah these things right here so these this is so this I got these goddamn things these paleo simplified I'm like oh got a Paleo Bar paleo doesn't have any sugar in it it's got a lot of God damn sugar in it all these things have 15 or 19 or yeah yeah this one has 20 Jesus Christ the uh the lab that I was doing my postto in

123:00they they I've talked about this before they they they made a they designed a bar intentionally to try and fill nut micronutrient gaps in people that are like obese so like they has it has vitamin D in it you know it has magnesium vitamin K it has DHA omega-3 it has all these good micronutrients in it um and then they try to put some dark chocolate so that doesn't taste like crap um and sprinkle a little bit there's very little sugar in it but you know people don't like them because they don't taste good this little has 22 this little thing crazy you shouldn't eat that disappears in my hand this little tiny thing has 22 imagine how many people are eating this stuff this is sugar these I think the the best thing you can do is eat whole foods you can eat vegetables you know fruits are not that bad you can eat a peir and app Apple you can eat berries strawberries all these things they have

123:52they have a variety of different good polyphenols these plant insecticides they've got fiber they've got some micronutrients you know and and they taste really good and they taste good like a peach a really good Peach oh my God they're delicious and it's something that we've gotten so we we've just gotten so used to it we've taken for granted you know if you had a dessert and it tasted like a delicious Peach you'd be like oo this is a wonderful dessert but because it's a peach you're like ah it's good for you it's almost like we want that bad for you rush it's like we're naughty on top of the fact that we're we're eating something we're getting like the mouth pleasure from it and we're also getting the naughtiness like ooh the cake ooh chocolate cake how much of that is a learned response as well you know I mean my my um postdoc adviser Bruce Ames he's

124:4287 years old going on 88 and I've been to many different dinner parties at his house and he's American and his wife is Italian so she immigrated here from Italy but every single time I go to a dinner party the dessert is always fresh fruit I mean it's just like super normal like it's it's always fresh some sort of fresh fruit metal she cut up and sometimes she'll put some a little bit of some alcohol or something on there um like Amaretto or you know but it's always fresh fruit and that's like they've been doing this for 50 years like that's been their dessert fresh fruit you know it's not good though that's the problem it is good chocolate cake is better for sure dark chocolate's good dark chocolate has a lot of good stuff in it yeah you know so the the dark dark chocolate's one I think that people that are really craving that can can feel good because there's there's

125:33egcg and dark chocolate which is what's in green tea egcg is one of those you know normal plant compounds that are doing in a hormetic response it's been shown to cause brain cells to grow it's anti-cancer it kills cancer cells um it also is really good for your skin prevent R your skin collagen is from being broken down and it has a really high rating of uh antioxidants right well that's what I'm talking about these they're not people get confused um antioxidants there are antioxidants in fruits and and uh vegetables but in dark chocolate the antioxidants are the hormetic compounds that are causing your antioxidant genes to be expressed it's a big difference and there's really like there's no comparison like if you're you know you need a certain amount of vitamin E which is antioxidant you need a certain amount of vitamin C which is an antioxidant and a co-actor you need

126:26it to make cagen but in just like the antioxidant form it pales in comparison to like glutathione related enzymes we have superoxide dismutase all these like systems that we have in our body that are designed to prevent you know these things called oxidation this oxidative stress stress from happening so when you're taking in fact some people um they have a uh so we have this Gene that can use glutathione in our body takes the glutathione that that we make in our body and it puts it to like prevent um damage from happening to our cells there are people that um have more act a more active version of this that if they take vitamin E supplemental that it actually does them harm really yeah because that because this what happens is the body goes oh I've got this vitamin E it's doing that job and so the enzyme doesn't get active when you have the stress there the enzyme's not active there's a

127:22certain Gene polymorphism in in the gstp1 gene so how would someone find that out would they have to do a 23 23 and me 23 and me um is a genetic test that tests for a variety of these polymorphisms and um there's the they give a a report that's kind of they don't tell you about that Gene you have to like um you can I don't know if promethease does promethease is a tool that's like it cost $5 I've talked about it before podcast and you can run your 23 andme data through it and it tells you all these polymorphisms but that what you have and what they mean but I also have a tool that's out today actually really that's um it's it's the beta version of it so it's it's basic functionality but that Gene's on there the gstp1 glutathione one is on there so um the tool that I've got out is free so people can use it for free and I'm going to add you know a bunch more genes to it

128:14but right now there's a there's a a basic set of genes that are interesting genes that are involved in you know making vitamin D can you convert the vitamin D3 you're taking into the steroid hormone or the vitamin D3 you get from the Sun some people have a polymorphism where they don't do that as well there it is right there there it is Rhonda's genetic report fitness.com gentics um it's amazing to me that every time you come on the podcast there's new that I have to remember and it seems like you're constantly learning things that's what's crazy is that you've been studying this for so long but it's just you're at the tip of the iceberg it seems like there's no end to this there's no end and we need Cris bird so that I can keep learning it's like infinite amount I mean I I well explain chrisper for people don't know what that means it's a a relatively new

128:59method of of altering genetics I'm going to give the Thousand high mile summary of it where it's it's basically a way um to to go and fix a gene that may be like let's say you've got some Gene that you can't repair you know the alcohol damage induced damage as well which also increases the risk for traumatic brain injury by like tfold it's bad um so you say I don't want that apoe4 Gene because it's going to lead to Alzheimer's disease it's going to make my traumatic brain injury lead to Alzheimer's disease you know it's so and also does other things well crisper um is a technology that can go and recognize the gene you want so it recognizes just a small sequence of DNA that you put on it so it you put this little sequence of DNA because you know what the sequence of the gene is and it recognizes its complimentary pair and it goes in and it cuts it out and it replaces it with what

129:52you actually put there which is the right version of it so it can like go cut out a bad thing and put the right thing in so it's a way of going instead of Gene engineering up until crisper um the way it was done was basically you would put a Jee in and it would just go anywhere and it wouldn't replace the bad one necessarily so this is kind of like a whole new field it's it's like so anyways yeah and there's a r Lab podcast on that as well it's spelled c r i s p right um and if you're interested listen to that Radio Lab podcast because it's amazing and it's also interviews of people who discovered it and right Jennifer Duda at UC Berkeley yeah I listened to some of that it's good I think I think they do a really good job explaining it to um people so that they can understand um I want to talk for a little bit about the cryotherapy because this is something that I emailed you

130:43when there was a disturbing article that was sort of poo pooing the benefits of cryotherapy and the theart article was I thought it was really poorly well poorly done poorly researched and it was also it was they studied really subjective things like how sore you felt uh after exercise and whether or not it benefited for them from that but but there are real positive benefits of cryotherapy that are measurable yes and that have been measured well first of all that article that you're referring to from that um whatever website it was but the article was a V is a guy and I think what he did is he rushed to put this article out because that woman died in Las Vegas from cryotherapy and it was a really tragic incident she was by herself there's two different types of cryotherapy one of the things we should point out first of all I don't have any because I've been accused of this I just

131:34say right now I don't have any vested interest in cryotherapy I don't own any of it I don't I don't make any money from it nothing I enjoy the benefits of it and I I use it but this woman who did it she did the type there's two kinds one of them it goes from the neck down so you stand in this booth your head is above breathing in normal oxygen but below you is liquid nitrogen you can't breathe that stuff in that's why your head is not under if you do breathe that stuff in you don't have any Oxygen you'll black out and that's what happened to her she did it by herself it was poorly set up and apparently she was quite short so her head was kind of below um the the the the limit where you're supposed to be so she was breathing in the liquid nitrogen and she fell asleep and blacked out see oh she went to one of those type I thought she was in like the fullon no no no the

132:22fullon ones are much rarer and what the full-on ones do is they super cool the air with the nitrogen so the air itself is pumped in really cold that's what I did yes that's what you did and that's what we're going to do today too if you have the time okay let's do um that one you can breathe in it's just unbelievably cold okay so the one that she did it was she set it up by herself which you're never supposed to do you're always supposed to have supervision so it wasn't whether or not I mean she's the only person I've ever heard of that's died from this and it's a horrible trag she committing suicide no no no she was just work there and sometimes women will um they'll put their face under it because they want the effects of a um a cryofacial because cryofacial has been shown to improve collagen and tightens your skin cry therapy actually prevents um it stop it

133:12inhibits enzymes that break down collagen called collagenases and that's actually part of the reason it helps with arthritis cuz arth collagenases break down collagen and they break down like you know the tendons collagen around the tendons and stuff and it can cause arthritis arthritic pain so doing it would make sense why you'd want to do something cryo because it it would have an effect on your skin yeah women love it when they they get their face down apparently they get or vain men too or any man well you don't have to be vain to one college but the point being that article came out and all these people were saying oh see I told you cryotherapy was I'm like oh my God what a piss poor article and it was all talking about soreness and one of the things that he said that really drove me crazy was you you'd get just as much benefit from a cool down and a

133:56stretch after a workout I'm like tell that to these people that I see that go there all the time that do it twice a day because they have severe arthritis and it's the only thing that's given them any form of of of freedom of movement of their hands like I know a bunch of people that go there that have had some pretty debilitating arthritis and this has given them relief where nothing else is given to him other than like pretty severe pharmaceutical drugs or ibuprofen at high levels or what you were talking about like there's a lady that goes to my thing but she was raving about how she can finally stretch her hands out like her hands had been like locked in this position for years yeah it has I mean the the cold itself is a hormetic stressor that is um activating a variety of anti-inflammatory Pathways antioxidant Pathways you know and it's also last time I think on the podcast we

134:46talked about it increases Oran well norepinephrine itself it can it it so cryotherapy and cold water immersion are two forms of of you know cold exposure cryotherapy just 2 minutes at like a minus 180 Fahrenheit can increase norepinephrine twofold that's you know twofold over what you were before you went in and norepinephrine in addition to the brain benefits we were talking about how it makes you feel good how it helps with learning it also um is a very pone antiinflammatory so it it inhibits the production of and tnf Alpha which is very it's kind of like in in arthritis tnf Alpha is kind of like going haywire you're making too much tnf Alpha and what happens is tnf Alpha is a signaling molecule to your immune cells that says hey there's an infection here because that's normally what happens when you release tnf Alpha is because there's some bacteria or some something that you

135:37need to kill and so your immune cells all they see is the signal they don't know what's causing it they don't know that it's because your gut cells and your immune cells in your gut are seeing bacteria because of your poor diet or whatever and so that's getting into the bloodstream and causing chronic inflammation it doesn't know that it all it knows is that this means there's a threat and so they start to um increase the production of your immune cells make hypochlorite which is like bleach so you're making bleach in your body to kill things and that's happening chronically that's going to cause some tissue damage it's going to cause pain um it also they also make hydrogen peroxide you make that and your immune cells will make that so cryotherapy uh inhibits the signaling molecule so that your imun cells quiet down because now they're not seeing that signal that says

136:21come on hey fire up fire up it's not there so that's that's a good thing to inhibit tnf Alpha and like I said with the collagenases as well um but there are so many I you know I just spent two weeks just researching and reading I've been doing some cold exposures you know like cold shower and also jumping in the ocean um ice bath and I really liked the cryotherapy um that I did last time we were here and uh you know so I I've been very interested in it like understanding why you feel so good and so I did some reading on it and there's so many different positive hormetic benefits from doing cryotherapy so you have you know the the the anti-inflammatory part and this and this also it's been shown that doing like 10 sessions of cryotherapy in a row it increases the expression of glutathione um reductase by twofold and another glutathione related enzyme glutathione

137:15peroxidase by like 68% and these are these enzymes like you could be taking all the liposomal glutathione you want like it's not going to matter if you don't have the enzymes active to use it so you could take liposomal glutathione and that's great you're increasing you know your you make glutathione inside of your cells but um we we can't make as much of it as we get older but if you if you take it and you don't have the enzymes that use it to actually do the good stuff active then it doesn't matter so cryotherapy was shown to um activate two different glutathione related enzymes which is pretty awesome so it enhance your body's ability to absorb glutathione no it doesn't enhance your body's ability to absorb it it enhances your body's ability to use it so if you're taking it liposomal glutathione and then you're using cryotherapy it would enhance it um so what I'm saying

138:05is that the liposomal glutathione that you take all that does is increase glutathione inside of your cells glutathione inside of your cells does nothing without enzymes that use it to uh to basically sequester damaging inflammatory things and the cryotherapy increas activates the enzymes that use it so it's like great I have all this glutathione sitting around in my cells that I've been taking and I also now have the enzymes that use it to do good stuff now are being turned on okay but what was very interesting is that it took like multiple sessions before before those got act like 10 to 20 10 in one at least 10 and the and then the other study was 20 so and was it consecutively um day 10 days in a row yeah 10 days in a row but the first day I didn't do it so that that was also very interesting so it's almost like your body is saying okay this crazy is going to do this it's an Adaptive

139:00response y yeah your body's preparing for war it's like it's stressful you know it's a stressful response the other thing um that's really cool that we didn't talk about last time in the podcast is the thermogenic effect when you when you release nor norepinephrine so that's I keep going back to that because it's like you can't refute that Steve Nolla no one no debunker no skeptic no I don't care who you are you can't it's just it's consistent in every type of cold exposure period it's it's it's consensus you release norepinephrine well there always seems to be some sort of a rationalization with a lot of the debunking like whether it's the benefits of exercise whether it's the benefits of cryotherapy it's almost like a rationalization for not doing it it's like you're looking for an excuse to not do it and not really very objective yes that was which was

139:49disturbing about it's like this is like you're poo pooing something that's offering people great yeah yeah I I it was clear I mean after especially especially after I did the two weeks of research I mean I think there's a kind of mentality when you're sometimes people like to think I'm a debunker and I'm not I am I am intentionally like because if you get in this mentality of always debunking something you're it's like this spiral and you can't see the good like you can't keep an open mind to get past your like what's in your box that you know and that's very dangerous I think that and I blind spot it is and and there are a lot of scientists that I know that are very smart extremely smart but they are in that Loop where it's like just they have to debunk and criticize like and it's like you know at some point huge discoveries are made by like connecting the dots and like

140:39getting past that like I mean you have to be critical being critical is very important but you also like I think there's a certain threshold where you just start to like you know you get to this like Spiral but well was also was infuriating about this is the data is out there this is not like it's not like there's no data it's like he made a cursory examination of the evidence and what he chose to focus on was it was so subjective he was he focused on a study that tested muscle soreness post exercise with cryotherapy well actually the study that he referred to is a meta analysis and it was subjective but it actually came to the conclusion that there were benefits however it said more studies that need to be done because there wasn't large enough sample sizes and the quality of data was poor because there were not double blinded pable control clinical

141:27trials and I have to say to you so that so there actually what he recited in that article there was a positive effect of the crow but the problem is is that because they followed it up with oh well it's poor quality basically poor science the the reality is is that you can't do a double blinded Place control controlled trial with cryotherapy like you're you're going to be cold and you're going to be put in this chamber where there's like cold or you're not and you're going to know if you're not cold you know so anyways I thought that was ridiculous I was like whatever I'm ignoring that I'm I'm going to read about this stuff to because I know I've experienced that there's definitely something going on um and one of the things that happens is the norepinephrine and when you release when you release that neop nephrine it activates uh a pathway in inside of your

142:15cells um that basically are it causes your energy metab metabolism to ramp up because you're trying to generate heat you want basically your body wants to your body is saying I don't want to die I need to make heat and so a couple of ways it can do that one it can shiver and shivering is when your muscles start to contract and that it it requires energy for your muscles to like twitch it's very um it's not very thermodynamically favorable so you it's not very a good way to generate heat but you generate heat because you have to like ramp up to twitch but then what happens after you've been exposed and actually this happened to me cuz we did the crow twice the first time I did it I was shivering like the entire time I was shivering it was like really crazy cuz I've never shivered like that in my life but the second time I went in I did not shiver and after reading about it what

143:03happens is your body quickly adapts so you adapt and what happens is non shivering thermogenesis so the norepinephrine causes your mitochondria which are the energy producing little organel inside of your cells well it causes them in your in your adapost tissue to like get activated um and it does this by increasing the expression of a gene called ucp1 which basically freaks your mitochondria out because your mitochondria are kind of like batteries they're charged they have a negative charge on the inside and a positive charge on the outside well ucp1 totally uncouples that so that there's no more charge and that charge is very important because when that charge is there your body knows okay I've been making energy because the way you make the charge is by making energy so when the charge goes away your body's like oh my god I've got no energy so it

143:50just starts to ramp up fat metabolism so it does that and you start to make more mitochondria so you're you're making more mitochondria in your fat cells and this is often called Brown fat um so you can actually the reason it's called Brown fat is because when you look at a fat cell under the microscope if it has more mitochondria then it looks Brown so you actually start to burn fat and you have this thermogenic because you're burning fat it's creating heat as a byproduct so you're warming your body but it has this nice side effect of burning fat which people like and the more you expose yourself to the cold the more you're Browning your fat the more you're increasing those mitochondria in your fats which means the next time you're in the cold you can tolerate it longer so people that have been exposing themselves to cold like yourself when you're doing the cryo you know often you

144:34actually can tolerate the colder for longer periods of time because you have more mitochondria in your fat cells and and this allows you to then generate more heat so and this has been shown in people people that have been exposed to uh cold that they've been shown to increase their their um Brown adapost tisue by like 38% if they're exposed to 10 days of 50 degree air like outside air just regular air that's it 50 Dees all it takes all day 10 days wow so like six hours a day out in like you know New York in the I don't know pre-winter fall I don't know something like that being out there for six hours for 10 days in a row men were able to increase their Brown adapost tissue by like 38% or something like that that's why people from the East Coast or from the Northeast that move to like California and then they go back during the winter they go oh my blood got too thin well it

145:21really is there really is like a physical factor of your body not being accustom to dealing with cold yeah you adapt you adapt and that's that's what brown adapost tissue and that's really when how cold got really popular popularized because people wanted to use it as a hack to lose weight you know so they were like oh if I do these cold showers I use it I I for the brain benefits because I notice I feel really good um and also more focused so I like that and a lot of people I've talked to I've felt the same way um but then I think the other part of this article was the the effects of it blunting some of the strength training and you know I talked about this in in this um report that I wrote or the in the podcast that I released on and it's so complicated I had to like sit there and literally just read for like two weeks to try to figure it out because you know the problem is

146:09is that exercise is a hormetic stress cold is a hormon stress so exercise itself you need some of the inflammation you need the bad stuff to get the good stuff that's how it works right but you know the inflammation that's happening happens while you're exercising and up to 1 hour after 1 hour after that's when the whole hormetic response kicks in and this has been shown in multiple studies 1 hour seems to be when the anti-inflammatory response kicks in so you've generated the inflammation and then now you've got the anti-inflammatory effects if you do a cold exposure within that hour after exercising it's possible you may blunt some of the inflammatory effects that the exercise is inducing because the cold is activating anti-inflammatory genes too early now I don't know that for certain but I do know that this the study that showed there was one study

146:59that showed strength training if you did it there were if you did cryotherapy immediately like immediately after uh cold it was actually cold water immersion which is not not the same as uh the cow cry chamber that it blunted some of the anabolic um signaling and so there was like some of the muscle mass was was not gained but you know there's other studies that have been done that have shown for some reason all the endurance guys they always wait an hour it's kind of weird so what I'm wondering is if people that are doing this research like sit down take a step back you know people are always in this I got to publish I got to publish you know there's a real big publish or perish mentality in science where it's like your bread and butter depends on you publishing and so you're just constantly trying to get that data out there but you really I think things

147:46are are so complicated just sit sit down take a look at everything that's out there and start to go wait a minute there's lots of little details that need to be considered to design this trial correctly so I'm hoping that at least for the people doing strength training that they'll do one where they actually wait until an hour because there's been other studies where there that um strength uh strength training in combination with cryotherapy done much later even the next day there were actually benefits performance benefits like they were able to do more of those leg curl things I don't know what they called leg extension yes leg extensions those you know so you know I I I don't really know what's going on but what I do know is that it seems as though it's very likely that doing the cryotherapy like immediately after and now then again if you're if you're talking about

148:30someone that's doing um like there's been studies that have been published showing that people that are doing two bouts of exercise so they're like riding a bike and then they they're waiting whatever 30 minutes and then they go and run or something if they do cold water immersion in between those they actually have performance enhancements you know if they if they wait uh if sorry if they do it between two bouts of exercise some of that's due to the fact that cold um the cold water it seems to improve heart rate variability it actually been shown to improve it by like two to three fold so heart rate variability is the change and oscillation between heartbeats and it's also um people people judge uh the heart recovery from a workout so as soon as you you're done with an intense workout the ability of your heart rate to lower immediately within minutes that's like a

149:18marker of heart rate variability and it's supposed to be good because your heart's able to deal with these stressful changes you know cuz when you're making cortisol or something your heart starts racing more or some of these other uh stress hormones uh so it's been shown to improve that and and having H being able to rec have your heart rate slower right after a workout and then immediately going to do a workout again you could imagine there would be an performance enhancement with with that so there there's also there's a difference in the the physiological response between cold water immersion and cryotherapy right well it depends um you know if if you're there there are differences in the ability for those two different modalities to extract heat from the body you know if you if we're talking about submerging ourselves in cold water up to our shoulders um water or ice is a much

150:07better um it's much better at extracting heat from the body than air um but surface area also plays a role and and the temperature change so if if you're sitting in cold water that's 57° um that's not as cold as going into a minus 180 or whatever crowd chamber but you can also sit in the cold water for a lot longer yeah most guys do it for 15 minutes I think that there has been a study that compared the orine nephrine release 20 seconds at 40° water up to the shoulders is comparable to 2 minutes at uh minus standard something 180 minus 180 f for norepinephrine for norepinephrine but a lot of this effects are mediated from nor norepinephrine but listen 20 seconds at 40° versus 2 minutes so imagine imagine staying in the water for 5 minutes and that and this has been shown so if you have someone that stays in water 57 degree water for an hour they increase their norrine by fivefold

151:03instead of twofold so you have a more robust response so it could be good but it could be bad if you're talking about doing it right after a a strength training session and jump into cold water for five minutes that could that could have some you know very potent anti-inflammatory effects so the the best way to handle it would be to wait at least an hour I think yeah that makes sense there what about uh anti-inflammatory markers in the blood so there have been studies that have shown that cryotherapy lowers C reactive protein which would be an inflammatory marker and then the glutathione related enzymes going up and also super oxide dismutase that would be a marker for inflammation because those also uh decrease inflammation when you have more of those so so cryotherapy does and then also um there's been Mark measurements of tnf alpha going down like I said um also another marker that

151:57macras has release maccrage inhibitory protein or something some inflammatory you know uh molecule that's made there's less of it when you when cold I can't remember if it was cold water immersion or cryotherapy but it's cold exposure so and that was mediated through norap norepinephrine mediates a lot of stuff it's it's mediating the brain effect it's mediating the thermogenesis it's anti-inflammatory it's anti-pain people get injected with norepinephrine in their spine to to alleviate pain yes because it's anti-inflammatory wow Jesus there's probably other things going on as well so science just science just the hard science there's plenty of evidence that there's benefits to cotherapy oh yeah so why would anybody write an article like that um like I said there's the there's the bad article that was the anabolic blunting effects which was done immediately after exercise which made a

152:49huge Splash because it's like w you're right yeah your gains um and then you have the the the hardcore very skeptical people that are like well the quality of data you know well the thing is is that there's a large body of data and sometimes if you can't have a double blinded Bal control trial then you have to look at mechanism you have to look at animal studies combined with human studies you have to understand what's going on you can't refute the norepinephrine we know that Norr is doing all these things you know so I I think you just have to be very comprehensive especially when the the when you know there's the argument that the there's no Placebo control trials or you know it's too subjective but there's lots of ways that it's not subjective and this has been measured in people people have measured the reactive protein they've measured these enzyme activities they've measured these

153:37inflammatory molecules in people also in animals you know so there's I I am confident when I say that there are absolutely health benefits from doing cold exposure for your brain anti-inflammatory for um for thermogenesis you know being able to your if you can this is actually a a target a I know a lot of researchers that are working on this they're trying to um find a way to pharmacologically Brown fat because it it increases uh fat burning and weight loss so pill of course it always people always try to do that with pill I prefer the the the cold but other things do it fish oil was shown to recently do that to increase uh brown brown atopus tissu so just fish oil not plant based Omega 6 and 3s no no no that's um so the so the fish it was two grams of EPA and one gram of e DHA and it was it increased um fat burning by like 27% or something during exercise

154:39and then at resting it increased it by something in the teens 17 or 13% and that was just at risk fat burning and the way it was shown the way it did it was by increasing ucp1 and uncoupling the mitochondria and causing your basically causing your fat to make more mitochondria and Browning fat super cool I've been taking high do as official but yeah to answer your question that the plant version and this is always a problem with the I I get this question a lot from from people that are vegan or vegetarian you know they're like well I get my omega3 from the plant version alphal linolenic acid and actually um there's there's a lot of important things to consider one is that alal linolenic acid is poorly converted all these are these are these are longchain polyunsaturated fatty acids alphal linolic acids 18 EPA is 20 iosa pentenoic acid which is found in fish

155:33and then DHA is 22 so you basically your body will take the alphal linolenic which is in Plants flax seeds um walnuts and it will start adding carbons on to make the other ones because you need the other ones 30% of your brain is made of DHA I mean DHA is very important but the thing is is that uh me Men actually only convert about 8% of alphal linolenic acid into um into EPA and only 4% into DHA not very much now estrogen actually can increase that the production um it can increase the gene that converts those because women are the ones that are you know caring the the child and DHA is very important for the developing brain very very important so it makes that nature would make a way to be able to do that with the plant version but the thing is is that there's been a study that showed that people that take pre-formed ALA alal linolic acid have to

156:27take 33.5 times more than pre-formed DHA or EPA to get the same amount of DHA and EPA in the brain it's a lot there's a lot so there there are ways around um there are vegan or vegetarian friendly um sources which would be microalgae oil I think that I I personally think that vegans and vegetarians should take microalga o if I was a vegan which I can't ever see myself becoming one but I would absolutely take that why do you not see yourself ever becoming one um because there are important micronutrients and meat that are that are important for a variety of physiological functions including the brain red blood cells uh you can supplement with some stuff but I just I haven't convinced myself not to to eat meat so I think with vegans with with vegans what they're trying to do is come up with uh sort of an ethical workaround they're trying to figure out what's how

157:24can you be healthy and live a vegan diet and is it healthy enough and most of them at least the the hardcore prz ones seem to think yes and they want everybody else to do it too yeah I there are a lot of benefits there are a lot of um positive factors to to eating a more vegan like diet um all the fiber you're getting vegans I mean I do know there are some vegans that eat a lot of processed junk so they're Al you know not everyone that's vegan's healthy but not everyone that's omnivore is healthy but the ones that are eating healthy they're getting a lot of they're getting a w wide broad spectrum of plants they're getting the different fibers they're getting the micro they're getting the good micronutrients in Plants the magnesium the vitamin K the folate uh vitamin C um and they're getting all the the you know hormetic compounds in the plants so those those

158:12are really good things but the problem is um is that they're they're more nutritionally deficient in things that most people in the western world are not because the problem with the like the United States in general isn't they we eat enough meat here most people unless you're vegan or vegetarian people are eating enough meat the problem is people aren't eating enough of their greens and so I usually focus on micronutrients that are found in greens because that's what people are not getting enough of but there are important micronutrients that are in meat um that vegans and vegetarians are more subject to being deficient in like B12 so B12 and iron are are two really really important ones both of these are very so B12 is very important for the production of neurotransmitters and myelin in the brain both iron and b12 are most people think of iron as being important for

159:03your blood cells and it is it's it's bound to something called heem which is a um protein inside hemoglobin that's important for transporting oxygen to your tissues because you you need oxygen to make energy so but the other thing that iron Iron's doing is it's also important for making uh myelin in the brain myin is what surrounds um the axons of your neurons and allow it allows them to communicate quickly it allows electrical signal signals to be transported quickly so that's important and then it makes neurotransmitters like you need iron to make serotonin in your brain and it's one of the reasons why during pregnancy iron's very like if you have iron deficiency during pregnancy it can cause um abnormal brain structure it can cause like birth defects because it shapes the structure and the wiring of of the brain um so that's you know obviously here in the United States uh

159:54we have supplements we have access to supplements and you know you can take a sublingual B12 you know and so you're it's it's a little bit bit of a different world than it is somewhere in like a developing country but B12 it's animal based so how are they getting plant-based B12 is there a plant that has B12 in it in large numbers um so B12 is actually made um by certain strains of bacteria and the reasons it's high in meat is because it gets meat you know animals are predators and so it gets concentrated in their muscle gets concentrated in in animal tissue but what about animals that are herbivores I mean is it still exist in them even if they're not Predators yeah because they're they're eating um they're eating a variety of of things that have the the bacteria like there's certain strains of mushrooms that have it in order to if you're a vegan or a vegetarian you're

160:42just eating those mushrooms you'd have to eat an enormous amount to get the RDA but it's more concentrated in animal meat which are constantly eating it so it gets concentrated in their tissues because they are B12 is required as a co-actor for a lot of enzymes in multiple organs including their muscle so it's got their muscles you know every time they're eating whatever has the B12 on it they're concentrating it so there are certain types of bacteria that make B12 but I don't think vegans or vegetarians can just get it from that they they'd have to eat a lot of it like like one of those czy so the argument that a vegan can get enough V12 from just a a standard vegan diet without supplementing you don't buy that no I don't so there's there was a study uh that was done in um Tanzania so there's a few researchers UCLA actually is were I think one of them just retired but um there was some

161:39researchers at UCLA that were studying the effects of B12 and iron deficiency on cognition on you know learning cognition behavior and there was a bunch of studies that were associative studies like that crappy premature ejaculation obesity where it's like you know these two things are associated but we don't know if it's causing and so there was an association with low B12 low iron and poor IQ lower IQ poor cognition poor Behavior Uh but there was no real causal you know role identified and so these there's a couple of research that you see La that did two different clinical trials where um there was 12 different schools in Tanzania that were selected and these the these clinical trials lasted two years and there was two of them the first trial was 575 kids or around 600 and the other one was like 370 something so closer to 400 so total we're talking a total of about a

162:36thousand children school children like these were elementary school children and the typical thing they eat in Tanzania is um it's like a porridge I forgot the the name of it but it's a porridge and it has vegetables it has beans and it has corn um and that's their standard porridge and so what the trial was designed where these school kids were going to give it they were given a snack every single day for two years either the porridge or they got the porridge with a glass of milk or they got the porridge with meat and every 3 to six months there were um arithmetic and reading tests done so they were looking trying to measure you know cognitive performance there was um they measured physical performance and muscle mass um and and what the results were of this study was that the the porridge with the meat so the school children that were eating the meat with

163:25the porridge scored better on math arithmetic they scored better on reading tests they had larger they had more muscle mass and they grew more than the other school children that did not get the meat and they also so that's all quantitative um they also they were more likely to um exhibit leadership qualities out in the playground that's a little more sub subjective but still interesting so the the bottom line here is that you know obviously in Tanzania they're not they're not supplementing they're not you know taking B12 iron they're also there's also essential um amino acids that are present meat which our bodies can't make that you know which are found in some you can find some plant sources of it like quinoa or um hemp seed has it but they're not supplementing with that stuff over in Tanzania so if you don't have access to those things and you're just eating

164:14vegetables and beans and corn then uh you will have nutritional deficiencies now the the question is if those children were given a B12 supplement or iron would that have you know made a difference probably probably would have I mean there's been studies in the United States that have been done on school children that have been deficient in certain micronutrients and they were given a multivitamin and an omega-3 supplement fish oil and they and only the ones that were deficient to begin with improved like did better on on reading and arithmetics test so there's definitely you know an argument to be made there but I I think you know I think for vegetarians um you know we live in a very different time obviously there's there's protein powders and quinoa and hemp seed and b12 sublingual and and what are they getting B12 from if it's a vegan based B12 I don't oh is that like is it

165:05possible I I thought it was just like methyl calman so I don't I don't think that there's it's not me it's just it's just synthetic B12 okay so the how they synthesizing it I don't know you're you're going beyond my knowledge Bas so okay but so you there it is possible to get both iron and b12 from yeah so so B12 is I mean a lot of vegetarians supplement with with B12 I mean they know and sublingual is important because there's also Gene polymorphisms that affect the way your gut absorbs B12 so people have to uh to bypass that you can put it under your tongue so sublingual is the optimal way to take it yeah I think for anyone so if someone's a vegan what are the what are the supp they should take you think B12 iron what else well with the iron is kind of tricky I just want to mention because you know Iron a lot of vegans think that they can get their iron from their diet because

165:54iron is also found in beans it's it's in Plants it's in spinach but the way it's bound it's bound in something called phate which we cannot digest and so the bioavailability of iron is 1.8 times Less in plant form than in meat meat is bound to something called heem which gives um it gives blood cells their red color which is why red meat has more of it but um people that are uh that are vegetarian that think they're getting enough iron they I really think they should get their levels measured so women lose a lot of iron during menstration so the so the the RDA for iron for men is 8 milligrams a day for women it's 18 when so already on top of that if you're a vegetarian or vegan multiplying by 1.8 is is is already important if you're just getting it from from food because the bioavailability of the iron is almost twofold less than from meat so that's

166:50one thing to consider and and the other thing is also um athletes so when you're like an endurance athlete you actually uh hemolysis occurs red blood cells lice when you're doing like very intense endurance training and so you lose iron there too because you're Lo losing red blood cells iron's tricky because you don't want too much of it it's like if you're supplementing like it's not there's no guess work here's no guess work with iron having so having too much when you take too much free like supplemental iron it can cause you know free Iron inside your cells and that is like dynamite that's like like it reacts with enzymes in your body and it like screws up energy production it causes lots of damage so it's really really bad it's really bad to get too much iron so this is supplemental iron not iron from actual fed sour food no it's tightly regulated

167:40but when you start to do supplemental iron yeah so I think that um and then there's Gene poly some people like Dan has one I i' I've seen lots of people's uh DNA where they have a there's a variation in a gene that can lead to two much iron overload um it's called hemat chrom hemocromatosis and and it's very it is very common and if you if you're if you have one of those genes and you're taking supplemental iron you have even more free irons just it's very bad very bad so I think that people should definitely and I don't know what all the blood levels there's different markers that you can measure your physician will know I mean but getting iron levels measured is is important if you're going to start supplementing and when you do supplement with iron is it important to take it with food with uh with fats like what is what is the absorption where when is it

168:28vitamin C vitamin C um dramatically increases the absorption of non- heem iron so iron that's not found in meat so even actually people vegetarians that are eating a bunch of beans legumes um first of all they need to eat one 1.8 times more than they would have meat but they also if they eat it with citrus fruit or have some berries or broccoli high vitamin C have it with your beans that would that would make make a difference in increasing the bioavailability of the iron so that would be important that's a fascinating aspect of food supplement or supplementation is eating it with the right foods and making sure that you you know some things you don't want to eat with any food at all and some things you want to have on a full stomach or you want fat like the cor fat soluble vitamins carotenoids even vitamin D um the the vitamins that are soluble in fat are are the bioavailability is

169:20increased when you take it with fat and so that would be another one actually a lot of vegetarians probably think they're getting enough vitamin A because beta carotene which is in plants can be converted into Vitamin A vitamin A gets is actually um it actually becomes a hormone and it works much like vitamin D not quite the same but um it does change it activates genes turns genes off does all this stuff so it it's very important for immune function for your eye for vision but there are um you have to the bioavailability of beta katene is um very low we don't absorb it very well fat increases that bioavailability so taking with fat because they are fat soluble the carotenoids beta kerotin fat soluble and also um there are Gene polymorphisms that uh people have so they don't convert beta carotene into Vitamin A very well like my brother-in-law has one where he doesn't

170:11at all very well so he has to actually get vitamin A from an animal Source um or you can get retinal acetate I don't know I think it's synthetic but that's something that some vegetarians may consider not not all of them but some just considering whether or not they have that Gene polymorphism I think the main ones are iron B12 omega-3 and vitamin D there you know 70% of the population doesn't get enough vitamin D but vegetarians often think they're getting enough vitamin D cuz you make it from the Sun but you know the problem is is that so many Factor regulate that because UVB radiation has to hit your skin to make it and so if you're wearing sunscreen or you have um a lot of melanin so if you're you've got like dark pigmentation that blocks it out latitude where you live so UVB rays like don't hit the atmosphere certain times of the year in certain regions so

171:04you know you're only three or four months out of the year can make Vitamin D from the Sun and then age you know as you get older a 70-year-old makes only 25% of the vitamin D that they made when they were uh 20 years old wow yeah so all these factors play a role and there is a vitamin I know I was talking a ritual about this because Vitamin D supplements D3 the plant form is D2 it's made by mushrooms mushrooms also make vitamin D when they're exposed to Sun the plant form doesn't get converted into the hormone very well and also um there's been two recent studies that have shown that D2 may actually inhibit uh d3's function in muscle so it actually uh has negative effects in in muscle tissue taking too much D2 yeah so D3 is the is the best supplement form um and most of the D3 on the Market's from lanoline which is like secreted from sheep skin or something I don't know I don't think

171:59that's vegan friendly but there is there is a a type of algae lyen lyen that that's uh that makes vitamin D and lyan's an algae I don't know what it is it's like a white plant is it yeah like weird funky stuff that grows Alaska okay yeah it it's like a moss almost let pull that up lyen yeah it's something that uh I know Caribou eat a lot of and uh Blacktail deer it's a it's like a white tasteless sort of a grass that they exist on not a grass but like a almost like a it's weird it's a weird plant here show you that's what it looks like what is that Dr yeah it is kind of weird looking yeah it's weird stuff yeah you find it all over the the place on Prince Edward Isle in Alaska was the first place I came in contact with it and I was like what is this and they were likee Blacktail deer eat a lot of some kind of a plant so you can get D3 from that yeah there's a company that that

172:58that makes D3 from that so there are vegan friendly sources of it so if if they do want to eat vegan it is possible to get a fully balanced diet and then the protein would be the other the other thing right because the essential amino acids are typically found in animal protein so getting um so those are like Lucine isol leucine tryptophan I don't know phenol alanine I don't know there's nine of them but they just exist in really low doses in in most plant-based proteins is that what the problem is um no the yeah very very very low doses but you can get some that have higher doses like hemp seed and then um quinoa so those those are the only two no I'm sure there's more there only two I know of right um but so they have like really a full amino acid profile right and they have the the essential ones that you need and keep in mind the essential proteins that's

173:51what's the branch chain amino acids that's what's actually taken up into muscle cells so and there's been studies that have been done just getting doing plant protein without the essential amino acids does not you do not um you can't gain muscle mass after doing strength training like you can if you take in um the essential amino acids because that's you need those to be taken up into muscle to to build well there's some of the weird vegan arguments that they repeat almost as if it's fact but that's not and one of them is that saturated fats and that saturated fats are somehow or another bad for you yeah so that's a very confusing literature I think um saturated fats in and of themselves aren't necessarily bad unless you have there are certain Gene polymorphisms in um so PPR Alpha PPR gamma fto genes if you have a gene polymorphism in one of these three genes

174:52because you H in order to um when you eat diet with saturated fat it needs to be metabolized transported to the right place you know you don't want to just sitting around and uh as fatty acids in your bloodstream well those genes that I just mentioned they play a role in doing that some people don't activate them very well and so if they have a high saturated fat and a low poly or monounsaturated fat intake they can actually have increased type 2 diabetes they can have poor glucose response because fatty acids are sitting around in their bloodstream and antagonizing the insulin receptor um doing doing all sorts of things but if they have a higher polyunsaturated fat which is found in fish or nuts or monounsaturated fat so avocados um nuts olive oil if they have a higher ratio of those then it activates those genes more and so they don't actually have those negative

175:41effects so that's one thing but that's the smaller thing the real problem with saturated fat is actually Sugar yeah the the there's the problem is is that saturated fat um increases the production of LDL cholesterol which isn't necessarily bad unless you have massive inflamation from eating refined carbohydrates and specifically from eating um sucrose or fructose corn syrup and this has been shown actually a colleague of mine Ron Krauss he's a brilliant cardio um cardiologist and he's one of the guys that he discovered a a test to measure what really the bad part of cholesterol which isn't just LDL it's actually a small dense particle and that small dense particles is formed only when you have have the saturated fat plus the the high fructose corn syrup or the refined sugar because it's causing inflammation so I did a podcast with him it's a little technical um but like my

176:40mother-in-law she she she watched the the video and she had done a lipid panel where the her physician had measured her LDL particle measured particle size measured triglycerides all these things wanted to get her on statins because she had really high cholesterol turns out I knew why she had high cholesterol she has high cholesterol because she has Gene polymorphism in the ape4 which prevents cholesterol from being recycled so it's not that's why she has high cholesterol so she watched this video and she like learned all about the particle size and that it's the small dense ones that are really an indicator of part vascular disease and her small dents were like she had none it was all the good kind it was all the LDL cholesterol is important because anytime you have make a new cell you need cholesterol cholesterol is made of cell membranes every time you're making a new

177:25kidney your liver cell you need cholesterol when you have damage when you hit yourself or you're doing your workout and your muscles you know get a little damage you need cholesterol there to build to repair that damage so you need it if you don't have it you're in trouble but anyways the the point is is that the saturated fat can that's why there's so much confus Fusion is because um one gene polymorphisms two people are now starting to tease apart that it's actually the combination of eating refined carbohydrates and saturated fat if you just have the saturated fat you don't have and you're eating vegetables and good things as well then you're not going to have all that inflammation you're not going to make small dense LDL particles we I talked about this with you last time that's what makes the small dense ldls inflammation so when you have the small D because a certain

178:10protein gets obscured it causes it to like stick to the um to the walls of your blood vessels very easy so that's kind of the danger because then you start to accumulate a plaque there so this totally makes sense when you talk about the amount of heart disease that exists in people that have this typical American diet which is high and saturated fat but also high and high fructose corn seere processed sugars low and vegetables veget I mean here's the thing and this is the problem with all those studies those studies that are correlations is that you're looking at people that are eating yes they're eating meat meat yes they're eating saturated fat but they're also not eating vegetables they're also eating cake and crackers and chips and hamburger buns and you know all that stuff sedentary lifestyle sedentary lifestyle all those things so you know the these studies like you have to

179:01really take it with a grain of salt and especially for healthy omnivores you know like I said there are vegetarians that are unhealthy that eat a bunch of process there's also very healthy vegetarians and vegans out there well there's a lot of unhealthy omn I mean if you were to go to like the DMV where like some place everyone has to go and like take a survey how many of them eat meat well probably like 95% of them are going to eat meat and then you ask them like what's their vegetable intake you know what's your refin how many refined carbohydrates do you take in how many you know you're they're all going to be not eating vegetables and they're going to be eating their cake and chips and you know their their their hot dog buns and so to blame it all on these the the blame it all on saturated fats is wrong it is you know some people can have a problem with

179:50Satur when they have to high of a saturated fat intake even if they're eating healthy other healthy stuff like I said because the gene that is that that's activated that helps metabolize the fat break it up transports it to where it goes isn't getting turned on well well get those genes get turned on by polyunsaturated fatty acids and so if you eat a ratio if you're eating saturated fat which is dairy you know some pork um I don't know red me mostly like if you get a lean cut it's not even actually that high and saturated fat U compared to to dairy or cheese or butter there's just so much misinformation so many people spout out this misinformation as fact too it's just it's so frustrating yeah it is frustrating the other thing is that people actually will notice there's a problem in their if they're eating a lot of saturated fat and they have one of those polymorphisms they start to gain

180:39weight they start to have bad lipid profile they start to and they're like they know like what I've been doing this I measure I know it's bad well they don't realize it's possibly because they have one of those Gene polymorphisms if they increase their their polyunsaturated monounsaturated fat may actually not be a problem but and cholesterol in and of itself is not a bad thing it's just not no cholesterol you need cholesterol you need it you need it like I said you need your own body's production of it but you also need to take some in yes exactly well taking in dietary cholesterol doesn't even raise your body's cholesterol saturated fat will raise your body's cholesterol dietary cholesterol from eggs doesn't like it's like nothing it doesn't do anything Mich shmer Ron Cross showed that so yeah no taking in dietary cholesterol doesn't even like move the

181:28dial for your your body's cholesterol production it's so funny because so many people think it does you know what really moves it stress stress dramatically increases cholesterol production you know why because when you're stressed your body makes your your body starts to make cholesterol makes VL um lipoproteins which have cholesterol in them because it Sops up um it soaps up what's uh called endotoxin which is released when you're stressed or inflamed and and you want your you want to sop it up because it can cause lots of damage so you start to make cholesterol and what ends up happening is when you're inflamed um your body will turn off the production it basically starts making something called malan COA which is important to make these you know these uh very lowd particle lipo proteins I was talking about but what it also does it is it inhibits your body from being able to

182:20metabolize fat with the exception of medium train triglycerides because it inhibits the transporter there's a transporter on mitochondria called CPT that is inhibited when your body's inflamed because it's making that malano COA and when that transporter is inhibited you're polyunsaturated you're saturated all like 99% of the dietary fat you take in is not getting used so it gets stored or or it start it's like you have fatty acids in your bloodstream can raise triglycerides and things so it can be really bad but MCTS bypass that MCTS don't need that transporter we just blew through three hours again man that's awesome blew through it feels like it was 20 minutes crazy it's it really is crazy yeah these are ridiculous conversations thank you very much you're awesome as always I'm going to have to go over this 50 times with a notebook to try to get half of it uh foundy fitness.com

183:14found my Fitness on Twitter what else yeah the genetic tool I've got people can uh check that out foundy fitness.com genetics and then I've got a podcast on iTunes I did the cryotherapy I talk all about that I've got some and how they get to that what is it on iTunes what's it called found my fitness oh it's good stick to one one brand yeah thank you so much you're awesome I can't say enough these are the best conversations I look forward to them and I'm really really appreciative that you do these thank you so much bye everybody two