Elon Musk

00:00ah hahaha four three two one boom thank you thanks for doing this man really appreciate it hey welcome it's very good to meet you nice to meet you too thanks for not lighting this place on fire you're welcome later how does one um just in the middle of doing all the things you do uh create cars uh rockets all this stuff you're doing constantly innovating decide to just make a flamethrower where do you have the time for that well the family i wouldn't put we didn't put a lot of time into the flamethrower the this was an off-the-cuff thing and um so we have sort of like it's sort of a sort of a hobby company called the boring company uh which started out as a joke and we decided to make it real and and dig a tunnel under la and then then people other people asked us to take tunnels and so we said yes in a few cases and then we have a merchandise section

01:04that only has one piece of merchandise at a time and we started off with a cap and there was only one thing on it was just boringcompany.com cap or hat that's it and and then we sold the hats limited limited edition it just said the boring company and then i'm big fan of space balls the movie and in space balls yogurt goes through the merchandising section and they have a flamethrower in the merchandising section of spaceballs and like the kids love that one uh that's the line when he pulls out the flamethrower it's like we should do a flamethrower so we does anybody tell you no does anybody go elon um maybe for yourself but selling a flamethrower the liabilities all the people you're selling this device to what kind of unhinged people are going to be buying a flamethrower in the first place do we really want to connect ourselves to all these potential arsonists yeah it's a terrible idea

02:13terrible i shouldn't buy one i don't i said don't buy this plane thrower don't buy it don't buy it that's what i said but still people bought it yeah there's nothing i can do to staff them it's building i said don't buy it it's a bad idea how many did you make it's dangerous it's got it's wrong don't buy it still people bought it i just couldn't stop them how many did you make 20 000 and they're all gone in three i think four days but it's sold out in four days are you going to do a a another run no no that's it yes i said we'll do 20 we did 50 000 50 000 hats um and and um that was a million dollars and it's like okay we'll we'll sell something and for 10 million and that was 20 000 flamethrowers at 500 each they went fast how do you have the time to do that though i mean i understand that it's not a big deal in terms of all the other things you do

03:25but how do you have time to do anything i just i don't understand your time management skills i i mean i didn't spend much time on on this flamethrower i mean to be totally frank it's actually just a roofing torch with an air rifle cover it's not a real flamethrower which is why it says not a flamethrower that's why we were very clear this is not actually a flamethrower and and also we're told uh that various countries would would ban shipping of it but they would not they would ban flamethrowers so we very to solve this problem for all the customs agencies we labeled it not at flamethrower did it work is it effective i i i don't know i think so yeah so far yes now but you said you cannot serve a flamethrower but you do so many different things forget about the flamethrower like how do you do all that other like how do you how do you how does one decide

04:19to fix la traffic by drilling holes in the ground and who do you even approach with that like when you have this idea who do you talk to about that i mean i'm not saying it's going to be successful or so you know it's like asserting that it's going to be successful but so far i've lived in la for 16 years and the traffic has always been terrible and so i don't see any other like ideas for improving the traffic so in desperation we're going to take a tunnel and maybe that tunnel will be successful and maybe it won't i'm i'm listening yeah i'm not trying to convince you it's going to work and are the people or anyone but you're you're starting this though this is actually a project you're starting to implement right yeah i know we've dug um about a mile it's quite long it takes a long time to walk it yeah now when you're doing this what is the ultimate plan the ultimate plan is

05:21to have these in major cities and anywhere there's mass congestion and just try it out in la first yeah it's it's in l.a because uh i mostly live in l.a that's the reason it's a terrible place to dig tunnels this is one of the worst places to dig tunnels because the there's mostly because of the paperwork people think it's like what about seismic it's like actually earth tunnels are very safe in earthquakes why is that earthquakes are earthquakes are essentially a surface phenomenon it's like like waves on the ocean so if there's a storm you want to be on the on in a submarine so being in a tunnel is like being a submarine now the way the tunnel is constructed is it's constructed out of these interlocking segments kind of like a snake it's sort of like a snake exoskeleton with double seals and so even when the ground moves the it's able to the tunnel actually is able to shift

06:21along with the ground like an underground snake and it doesn't crack or break or or and and it's extremely unlikely that both seals would be broken and it's it's it's capable of taking five atmospheres of pressure it's waterproof methane proof or gas proof of any kind and uh meets all california seismic requirements so when you have this idea who do you bring this to i'm not sure what you mean by that well when you you're you're implementing it so you're digging holes in the ground like you have to bring it to someone that lets you do it yeah so um there were there were some engineers from spacex um who were who thought it would be cool to do this uh and the guy who runs it like day-to-day steve davis he's a long-time spacex engineer is great um so steve was like i'd like to help make this happen i was like cool um so we started off with digging a hole in the ground it's got

07:29like a permit for a pit big pit and just dug a big pit and you have to tell them what the pit's for or you just say hey we just want to dig a hole nice fill out this form that's it yeah i was put in our parking lot and but do you have to give them some sort of a blueprint for your ultimate idea and do they have to approve it like how does that work now we just started off with a pit okay big pit and um now you know it's not really you know don't really care about the existential nature of a pit you just say like i don't want a bit right yeah and uh it's a hole in the ground so then we got the permit for the pit and we dug the pit and we dug in like i don't know three days two three days actually i think two 48 hours something like that um because uh eric garcetti was coming by for the hype to he was going to attend the hyperloop competition which is like a student competition we

08:27have for uh who can make the fastest pod in the hyperloop and uh he was coming this was good the finals were going to be on sunday afternoon and so eric was coming by on sunday afternoon was like you know we should take this pit and then like show eric uh so we was like friday morning and then yeah so it was about a little over 40 hours 40 hours later we dug the pit it was like when 24 7 or 24 48 straight hours something like that and dug this big pit and and and we're like showed eric the pit like obviously it's just a pit but hey it's hole in the ground is better than no hole in the ground and what do you tell me about this pit i mean you said this is the beginning of this idea yes we're going to build tunnels under la to help funnel traffic better and there you go and they just go okay that but that we've joked around about this in the podcast before that like what other person

09:24can go to the people that run the city and go hey uh we're gonna dig some holes on the ground and put some tunnels in there and they go oh yeah okay now they know where they're holding the ground but it's uh people think holes in the ground all the time but my my question is like i know how much time you must be spending on your tesla factory i know how much time you must be spending on spacex and yet you still have time to dig holes under the ground in la and come up with these ideas and then implement them like i got a million ideas i'm sure you did no shortage of that yeah i just don't know how you manage your time i don't understand it it doesn't seem it doesn't even seem humanly possible you know i i do basically i think people like don't totally understand what i do with my time they think like i'm a business guy or something like that um like my wikipedia page says business

10:13magnate what would you call yourself a business magnet can someone please change my wikipedia page to magnet they'll change it right now it's probably already changed it's locked so somebody has to be able to unlock it and change it to magnets i want to be a magnet no i i do engineering and you know and manufacturing and that kind of thing that's like 80 percent more of my time ideas and then the implementation of those ideas that's like hardcore engineering like yeah designing things you know right structural mechanical electrical software uh user interface engineering aerospace engineering but you must understand there's not a whole lot of human beings like you you know that right you're an oddity yes to chimps like me we're all chimps yeah we are we're one notch we're not above a chimp some of us are a little more confused when i watch you doing all these things i'm like how

11:12does this have all this time and all this energy and all these ideas and then people just let them do these things because i'm an alien that's what i've speculated yes i'm on record saying this in the past i wonder it's true if there was one i was like if there was like maybe an intelligent being that we created you know like some ai creature that's uh superior to people maybe just hang around with us for a little while like you've been doing and then fix a bunch of maybe that's the way i might have some mutation or something like that you might do you think you do probably do you wonder like you're around normal people you're like hmm like what's up with these boring dumb ever not bad for a human but i i think we will not be able to hold a candle to ai hmm you scare the out of me when you talk about ai between you and sam harris i don't even consider it until at a podcast with sam once

12:12right he made me my pants talking about ai i realized like oh well this is a genie that once it's out of the bottle you're never getting it back in that's true there was a video that you tweeted about one of those boston dynamic robots and you're like in the future it'll be moving so fast you can't see it without a strobe light yeah you could probably do that right now and no one's really uh paying attention too much other than people like you or people that are really obsessed with technology all these things are happening and these robots are did you see the one where peta put out a statement that you shouldn't kick robots it's probably not wise for retribution their memory is very good i bet it's really good it's really good i bet it is yes and getting better every day it's really good are you honestly legitimately concerned about this are you is like ai

13:08one of your main worries in regards to the future yes it it's less of a worry than it used to be mostly due to taking more of a fatalistic attitude so you used to have more hope and you gave up some of it and now you don't worry as much about ai you're like this is just what it is yeah pretty much yes yes but no it's not necessarily bad it's just it's definitely going to be outside of human control not necessarily bad right yeah it's not it's not necessarily bad it's just it's just outside of human control now the thing that's going to be tricky here is that it's going to be very tempting to use ai as a weapon it's going to be very tempting in fact it will be used as a weapon so the the on the the on ramp to serious ai the danger is going to be more humans using it against each other i think most likely that'll be the danger yeah how far do you think we are from something

14:31that can make its own mind up whether or not something's ethically or morally correct or whether or not it wants to do something or whether or not it wants to improve itself or whether or not it wants to protect itself from people or from other ai how far away we some from something that's really truly sentient well i mean you could argue that any group of people like it like a company is essentially a cybernetic collective of people and machines that's what a company is and then there are different there's different levels of complexity in the way these companies are formed and then there are sort of there's this like a collective ai in in the google sort of search google search you know the where we're all sort of plugged in as like like nerds on the network like leaves on a big tree or and we're all feeding this network without questions and answers we're all collectively programming

15:45the ai and the and google plus the older humans that connect to it are one giant cybernetic collective this is also true of facebook and twitter and instagram and all these social networks they're giant cybernetic collectives humans and electronics all interfacing and constantly now constantly connected yes constantly one of the things that i've been thinking about a lot over the last few years is that one of the things that drives a lot of people crazy is how how many people are obsessed with materialism and getting the latest greatest thing and i wonder how much of that is well a lot of it is most certainly fueling technology and innovation it almost seems like it's built into us it's like what we like and what we want that we're fueling this thing that's constantly around us all the time and it doesn't seem possible that people are going to pump the brakes it doesn't seem possible

16:46at this stage we're constantly expecting a new cell phone the latest tesla update the newest macbook pro everything has to be newer and better and that's going to lead to some incredible point and it seems like it's built into us it almost seems like it's an instinct that we we're working towards this that we like it our job just like the ants build the ant hill our job is to somehow rather fuel this yes um i mean i made this comment some some years ago but it feels like we are the biological bootloader for ai effectively we are building it and then we're building progressively greater intelligence and the percentage of intelligence that is not human is increasing and eventually we will represent a very small percentage of intelligence but the the ai isn't formed strangely by the human limbic system it is in large part our id writ large how so we mention all those things the

18:07sort of primal drives um there's all all the things that we like and hate and fear they're all there on the internet their projection of our limbic system that's true no it makes sense and the thinking of it as a i mean think of thinking of corporations and just thinking of just human beings communicating online through these social media networks is some sort of an organism that's a it's a cyborg it's a it's a combination it's a combination of electronics and biology yeah this is in some measure like it's the success of these online systems is the is a is sort of a function of of how much limbic resonance they're able to achieve with people the more limited resonance the more engagement um whereas like one of the reasons why probably instagram is more enticing than twitter olympic resonance yeah you get more images more video yes tweaking your system more yes do you worry about

19:29or wonder in fact about what the next step is i mean a lot of people didn't see twitter coming that you know communicate with 140 characters or 280 now would be a thing that people would be interested in like it's gonna excel it's gonna become more connected to us right yes things are getting more and more connected they're at this point constrained by bandwidth our input output is slow particularly output output got worse with thumbs you know we just have input with 10 10 fingers now we have thumbs but images are just are also are there a way of communicating at high bandwidth you take pictures and you send pictures to people what sends that's that communicates far more information than you can communicate with your thumbs so what happened with you where you decided or you took on a more fatalistic attitude like what was there any specific thing or was

20:26it just the inevitability of our future i try to convince people to slow down slow down ai to regulate ai this was futile i tried for years this scene nobody's seen in a movie robots are gonna take over and you're freaking me out nobody listened nobody listens no one are people more inclined to listen today it seems like an issue that's brought up more often over the last few years than it was maybe five ten years ago it seemed like science fiction maybe they will so far they haven't i think people don't like the normally the way that regulations work it's very slow it's very slow indeed so usually it'll be something some new technology it will cause damage or death there will be an outcry there will be an investigation years will pass there will be some sort of insight committee there will be rule making then there will be oversight eventually regulations

21:49this all takes many years this is the normal course of things if you look at say automotive regulations how long did it take for seat belts to be to be implemented to be required you know the water industry fought seat belts i think for more than a decade successfully fought any regulations on seat belts even though the numbers were extremely obvious if you had a seatbelt on you would be far less likely to die or be seriously injured it was unequivocal and the industry fought this for years successfully eventually after many many people died regulators insisted on seat belts this is a this time frame is not relevant to ai you can't take 10 years from the point which is dangerous it's too late and you feel like this is decades away or years away from being too late if you have this fatalistic attitude and you feel like it's going we're in a almost like a doomsday countdown it's

23:07not necessarily a doomsday countdown it's it's a out of control countdown out of control yeah people call it the singularity and uh that's that's probably thing about it is it's a singular it's hard to predict like a black hole what what happens past the event horizon right so once it's implemented it's very different because it it once it's out of the bottle what's going to happen and it will be able to improve itself yes that's where it gets spooky right the idea that it can do thousands of years of innovation very very quickly yeah and then we'll be just ridiculous ridiculous we will be like this ridiculous biological pissing thing trying to stop the gods no stop we like we like living with a finite lifespan and watching you know norman rockwell paintings it could be terrible and it could be great it's not clear right but one thing is for sure we will not control it

24:07do you think that it's likely that we will merge somehow or another with this sort of technology and it'll augment what we are now or do you think it will replace us well that's the scenario the the emerge scenario with ai is the one that seems like probably the best like for us yes like if you if you can't beat it join it that's yeah you know um so from a long-term existential standpoint that's like the purpose of neural link is to create a high bandwidth interface to the brain such that we can be symbolic with ai because we have a bandwidth problem you just can't communicate through your fingers is too slow and where is neural link at right now i think we'll have something interesting to announce in a few months that's at least an order of magnitude better than anything else probably i think better than probably if anyone thinks is possible how much can you talk about that right now

25:25i don't want to drop the gun on that um but what's like the ultimate what's what's the idea behind it like what are you trying to accomplish with it like what would you like best case scenario i think best case scenario we effectively emerge with ai where we ais serves as a tertiary cognition layer uh where we've got the limbic system kind of the primitive brain essentially you've got the cortex so you're currently in a symbiotic relationship with your cortex and limbic system are in a symbolic relationship and generally people like their cortex and they like the olympic system i haven't met anyone who wants to delete their limbic system or delete their cortex everybody seems to like both and the cortex is mostly in service to the limbic system people may think that that that they're that they're thinking part of themselves is in charge but it's mostly their

26:23limbic system that's in charge and the cortex is trying to make the limbic system happy that's what most of that computing power is oriented towards how can i make the limbic system happy that's what i was trying to do now if we do have a third layer which is the ai extension of yourself that is also symbiotic and there's enough bandwidth between the cortex and the ai extension of yourself such that the ai doesn't de facto separate then that could be a good outcome that could be quite a positive outcome for the future so instead of replacing us it will radically change our capabilities yes it will enable anyone who wants to have superhuman cognition anyone who wants this is not a matter of earning power because your earning power would be vastly greater after you do it so it's just like anyone who wants can just do it in theory that's the theory and and if that's the case

27:36then and let's say billions of people do it then the outcome for humanity will be the sum of of human will the sum of billions of people's desire for the future billions of people with enhanced cognitive ability radically enhanced yes and which would be it how much different than people today like if you if you had to explain it to a person who didn't really understand what you were saying how much different are you talking about when you say radically improve like what do you mean you mean mind reading difficult it will be difficult to to really appreciate the difference um it's kind of like how much smarter are you with a phone or computer than without it's your vastly smarter actually you know you can answer any question if you connect to the internet you can answer any question pretty much instantly any calculation that your phone's memory is essentially

28:44perfect uh you can remember flawlessly your phone can remember videos pictures and everything perfectly that's the that your phone is already an extension of you you're already a cyborg you don't even well most people realize they are already a cyborg it that phone is an extension of yourself it's just that the the data rate the rate at which of the communication rate between you and the cybernetic extension of yourself that is your phone and computer is slow it's very slow and and that that it's like a tiny straw of of information flow between your biological self and your digital self and we need to make that tiny straw like a giant river huge high bandwidth interface it's an interface problem data rate problem solve the data rate problem then i think i think we can hang on to human machine symbiosis through the long term and then people may decide that they

30:00want to retain their biological self or not i think they'll probably choose to retain their biological self versus some sort of ray kurzweil scenario where they download themselves into a computer you will be essentially snapshotted into a computer at any time if your biological self dies you could just probably just upload into a new unit literally pass that whiskey we're getting crazy over here this is getting ridiculous down the rabbit hole grab that sucker give me some of that this is too freaky see if i've been thinking about this for a long time by the way i believe you have if i was talking to one cheers by the way cheers hey this is a great whiskey thank you i know where this came from who brought this to us trying to remember somebody gave it to us old camp whoever it was thanks yeah it is good um this is just inevitable again going back to your when you decided to

30:55have this fatalistic viewpoint so you weren't you tried to warn people you talked about this pretty extensively i've read several interviews where you talked about this and then you just sort of just said okay it just is let's just and you in a way you're by communicating the potential fear i mean for sure you're you're getting the warning out to some people yeah yeah i mean i i was really going on the warning quite quite a lot i was warning everyone i could even met with obama and just for one reason like just talk about ai yes and what did he say so what about hillary worry about her first shh everybody crying no he listened he suddenly listened um i met with congress i met with i was at a meeting of all 50 governors and talked about just ai danger and i talked to everyone i could no one seemed to realize where this was going is it that or do they just assume that

32:07someone smarter than them has already taken care of it because when people hear about something like ai it's almost abstract it's almost it's almost like it's so it's so hard to wrap your head around it by the time it already happens it'll be too late yeah i think they didn't quite understand it or didn't think it was near term or not sure what to do about it when i said like you know an obvious thing to do is to just establish a committee government committee to gain insight you know before before you oversight before you do make regulations they should try to understand what's going on and then if you have a insight committee then once they learn what's going on get up to speed then they can make maybe some rules or propose some rules and and that would be probably a safer way to go about things it seems i mean i know that it's probably something that the government's

33:10supposed to handle but it seems like i wouldn't want the i don't want the government to handle this who do you want to i want you to handle it oh geez yeah i feel like you're the one who could ring the bell better because if if mike pence starts talking about hey i'm like shut up you don't know anything about ai come on man he doesn't know what he's talking about but i don't have the power to regulate other companies what am i supposed to do right but maybe companies could agree maybe there could be some sort of a there's we have agreements where you're not supposed to dump toxic waste into the ocean you're not supposed to do certain things that could be terribly damaging even though they'd be profitable maybe this is one of those things maybe you should realize that you can't hit the switch on something that's going to be able to think for itself and make up its own mind as to

33:53whether or not it wants to survive or not and whether or not it thinks you're a threat and whether or not it thinks you're useless like why do i keep this dumb finite life form alive why why keep this thing around it's just stupid it just keeps polluting everything it's everywhere it goes lighting everything on fire and shooting each other why would i keep this stupid thing alive because sometimes it makes good music you know sometimes it makes great movies sometimes it makes beautiful art and sometimes you know sometimes it's cool to hang out with like yeah all those reasons yeah for us those are great reasons yes but for anything objective standing outside like oh this is definitely a flawed system this is like if you went to the jungle and you watch these chimps engage in warfare and beat each other with music they're really mean mean they're real meaning i saw

34:38that movie chimpanzee yeah i thought it was gonna be like some disney things like holy cow what movie was that it's literally called chimpanzee is it a documentary yeah yeah it's kind of like a documentary i was like damn these chimps are mean they're mean yeah they're cruel yeah they're they're they're calculated yeah yeah they sneak up on each other and like i didn't realize chimps did calculated cruelty mm-hmm yeah that's pretty ah i left that meeting kind of thinking whoa this is dark right well we know better because we've advanced but if we hadn't we'd be like man i don't want to live in a house i like the chimp ways bro chimp ways to go this is it man chimp life i know but we in a way to the ai might be like those chimps i'm like these stupid launching missiles out of drones and shooting each other under water like we're crazy we got torpedoes and submarines and

35:36airplanes that drop nuclear bombs indiscriminately on cities we're yeah they might go why are they doing this it might like look at our politics look at what we do in terms of our our food system what what kind of food we force down each other's throats and they might go these people are crazy they don't even look out for themselves i don't know i mean how much do we think about chimps not much very little it's like these terms are at war these like little it's like groups of chimps just attack each other and they kill each other and they torture each other that's pretty bad um they hunt monkeys uh they're but like this is probably the most that's you know i mean when's the last time you talk about chimps me yeah all the time you do talking to them okay podcast dude okay people are laughing right now yeah constantly i'm obsessed i saw that david attenborough documentary

36:40on champs where they were eating those columbus monkeys and ripping them apart i saw that many many years ago it just changed how i go oh this is why people are so crazy we came from that thing yeah exactly yeah and there's the yeah they got like better philosophy yeah they're like swingers yeah yeah they really are they're they they seem to be way more even than us way more civilized they just seem to resolve everything with sex yeah the only rules they have is the mom won't bang the sun that's it okay that's it mom won't bring her sons they're good women yeah good women in the bonobo community everybody else just banging it out yeah i haven't seen the bonovo movie well they're disturbing just at a zoo you know you have bonobos at the zoo they're just constantly going constantly yeah that's all they do they just won't stop yeah and they don't care gay straight whatever let's just up

37:35these labels i haven't seen bonobos out of zero it's probably like nothing nothing not in the pg section yeah i don't think they have them at many zoos we've looked at it before it's probably pretty awkward i think that's the thing they like to keep regular chimps at zoos because bonobos are just always jacking off yeah what's that they're in san diego san diego's got some yet really interesting probably separate them yeah i mean how many are in a cage you know it's like right it's gonna be pretty intense yeah yeah yeah we're we're a weird thing you know and i've often wondered if whether or not we're you know our ultimate goal is to give birth to some new thing and that's why we're so obsessed with technology because it's not like this technology is really i mean it's certainly enhancing our lives to in a certain way but is i mean ultimately is it making people happier right now

38:26most technology i would say no in fact you and i were talking about social media before this about just not having instagram on your phone and not dealing you feel better yes i think that one of the issues with social media that's been pointed out by many people is that i think maybe particularly instagram um people look like they have a much better life than they really do right so by design yeah people are posting pictures of when they're really happy they're modifying those pictures to be better looking even if they're not modifying the pictures they're at least selecting the pictures for the best lighting the best angle so people basically seem uh they're way better looking than they basically really are right um and they're way happier seeming than they really are so if you look at everyone on instagram you might think man they're all these happy beautiful people

39:26and i'm not that good looking and i'm not happy so i'm a suck you know and that's gonna make feel sad so when in fact those people you think are super happy actually not that happy some of them are really depressed they're very sad some of the happiest seeming people actually some of the saddest people in reality um and and nobody looks good all the time doesn't matter who you are no it's not even something you should want why do you want to look great all the time yeah exactly so uh so i think i think things like that can make people quite sad just by comparison because you you sort of you people people generally think of themselves relative to to others it's it's a we are constantly re-re-baselining our expectations um and you can see this say if you watch some show like naked and afraid or you know if you just go and try living in the woods by yourself for a while

40:31and you're like the learned civilization is quite great it has a lot it's a lot of it it's people want to come back civilization pretty fast on the good and afraid wasn't that a thoreau quote the comparison is a thief of joy yeah well if happiness is reality minus expectations that's great too but the comparison is a thief of joy really holds true to people is it theodore roosevelt roosevelt fascinating um and when you're thinking about instagram because what essentially instagram is with a lot of people is you're giving them the opportunity to be their own pr agent and they always go towards the glamorous you know and when any anybody does show you know hashtag no filter i don't know if they really do do that like oh you're so brave look at you no makeup you know yeah they look good anyway you look great what are you doing oh my god you don't have makeup on you

41:24still look hot as you know what you're doing i know what you're doing too they're they're they're letting you know and then they're feeding off that comment section sitting there like like it's a fresh stream of love like you're getting right up to the source as it comes out of the earth and you're sucking that's a lot of a lot of emojis emojis emojis yeah a lot of emojis my my concern is not so much what instagram is is that i didn't think that people had the need for this or the expectation for some sort of technology that allows them to constantly get love and adulation from strangers and comments and and this ability to project this sort of distorted version of who you really are but i worry about where it goes like what's the next one what's the next one like where is it is it going to be augmented to some sort of a weird augmented or virtual sort of instagram type situation where

42:15you're not going to want to live in this real world you're going to want to interface with this sort of world that you've created through your social media page some next level thing yeah go live in the simulation yeah i mean in the simulation some ready player one type that's real that seems we have that htc vive here and i've only done it a couple times quite honestly because it kind of freaks me out sure my kids love it man they love it they love playing these weirdo games and and walking around with that headset on but part of me watching them do it goes wow i wonder if this is like the precursor just sort of like if you look at that that phone that gordon gekko had on the beach yeah big cell phone yeah you compare that to like a galaxy note 9. how the did that become that right and i wonder when i see this htc vive i'm like what is that thing going to be 10 years

43:06from now when we're making fun of what it is now what is it how i mean how ingrained and how how how connected and interconnected is this technology going to be in our life it will be at some point indistinguishable from reality where we'll lose this we lose this like you and i are just looking at each other through our eyes i see where you see me i think i hope you think so i think you probably have a regular eyes this could be some simulation it could do you entertain that well the argument for the simulation i think is quite strong because if you assume any improvements at all over time any improvement one percent point one percent just extend the time frame make it a thousand years a million years the universe is 13.8 billion years old what would a civilization if you counted if you're very generous civilization is maybe seven or eight thousand years old

44:11if you count it from the first writing this is nothing this is nothing so if you assume any rate of improvement at all then games will be indistinguishable from reality or civilization will end one of those two things will occur therefore we are most likely in a simulation or we're on our way to one right well just because we exist we could most certainly be on the road we could be on the road to that right it doesn't mean that it has to be reality it could be in base reality we could be here now on our way to the road or on our way to the destination where this can never happen again where we are completely ingrained in some sort of an artificial technology or some sort of a symbiotic relationship with the internet or the next level of sharing information but right now we're not there yet that's possible too right it's possible that a simulation is one day going to be inevitable that

45:17we're going to have something that's indistinguishable from regular reality but maybe we're not there yet that's also possible so we're not quite there yet that this is real when i touch that it feels very real maybe that's why everybody's like into like mason jars and amazing suede shoes people are going to like craft restaurants and they want raw wood everyone says everyone wants to see metal people it seems like people are like longing towards some weird log cabin type nostalgia reality yeah like holding on like clinging just dragging their nails through the mud like don't take me yet yes but then but then people go get a mason jar with a wine stem or a handle that's dark makes me lose faith in humanity wine stem and a handle they have those yes oh those dirty people that's just that's like people make pet rocks rough right some people are just they take advantage of our

46:11our generous nature it was made with a wine stem made with a handle they made it that way yes so the the it wasn't like well on to the mason ah that would be fine if there was they glued it on or something right white trash chic oh this is disgusting look at this it is right there yep this is terrible yeah that's like fake breasts that are designed to be hard like fake breasts from the 60s it's like if you really along for the ones with ripples here we go yeah that's almost what that is yeah what are you going to do man there's not nothing you know something you do stop certain terrible ideas from propagating yeah um anyway i don't sound like things are too dark because i think like you kind of have to be optimistic about the future there's no point in being pessimistic it's just too negative it doesn't help you know i think you want to be i mean my theory is like you'd rather be

47:22optimistic i think i'd rather be optimistic and wrong than pessimistic and right right at least or on that side right yeah because if you're pessimistic it's going to be miserable yeah yeah nobody wants to be around you anyway if it's the end of the world you're like i told you bro yeah the world's ending yeah it is what it is for all i mean enjoy the journey right if you really want to get morose i mean it is what it is for all of us anyway we're all going to go unless some something changes yeah i mean ultimately you know even if we just sort of existed as humans forever we'd be would still eventually be like the heat death of the universe right a zillion years from now right even if we get it past the sun if we figure out a way past the sun running out of juice eventually it's going to end it's just a question of when right so it really is all about the journey hmm

48:20or transcendence from whatever we are now into something that doesn't worry about death the universe as we know it will dissipate into a fine mist of cold nothingness eventually and then someone's going to bottle it and put a fragrance to it sell it to french people in another dimension it's just a very long time so i think it's really just about how can we make it last longer are you a proponent of the multi-universes theory do you believe that there are many many universes and that even if this one fades out that there's other ones that are starting fresh right now and there's an infinite number of them and they're just constantly in this never-ending cycle of birth and death i think most likely this is just about probability there are many many simulations these simulations are you might as well call them reality or you could call them multiverse these

49:20simulations you believe are created like someone has manufactured running on the substrate so that substrate is probably boring boring how so well when we create a simulation like a game or a movie it's a distillation of what's interesting about life you know it takes take a year to shoot an action movie and then that's all to slow down into two or three hours so let me tell you if you see an action movie being filmed it's freaking it's boring super boring it takes there's like lots of takes there's everything's in a green screen looks pretty goofy doesn't look cool but once you add the cgi and have great editing it's amazing so i think most likely if we're a simulation it's really boring outside the simulation because why would you make a simulation that's boring it makes simulation way more interesting than the base reality that is if this right now is a simulation yes

50:30and ultimately inevitably we're if as long as we don't die or get hit by a meteor we're going to create some sort of simulation if we continue on the same technological path where we're on right now yes but we might not be there yet so it might not be a simulation here but it most likely is you feel other places this notion of place or where is is a flawed yes flawed like that if you have this sort of that uh vive you know which that's made by valve and st and it's really valve that made it htc did the hardware but it's really a valve thing um makers of half-life yes wow great company great company um uh when you're in the in that some in that your virtual reality which is only going to get better where are you where are you really right you aren't anywhere well where is the computer what what you know what defines where you are exactly right it's your perception

51:44is it your perceptions or is it you know a scale that we have under your butt you're right here i've measured you you're the same weight as you were when you left but you meanwhile you're experiencing why do you think you're where you are right now you might not be i'll spark up a joint if you keep talking your manager's gonna come in here we might have to lock the door right now you think you're in a studio in l.a that's what i heard you might be in a computer oh listen man i think about this all the time yeah i mean it's unquestionable that one day that'll be the case as long as we keep going as long as nothing interrupts us and if we start from scratch and you know we're single-celled organisms all over again and then millions and millions of years later we become the next thing that is us with creativity and the ability to change its environment it's going to

52:30keep monkeying with things until it figures out a way to change reality to change i mean to almost like punch a hole through what is this thing into what what it wants it to be and create new things and then those new things will intersect with other people's new things and it'll be this ultimate pathway of infinite ideas and expression all through technology yeah and then we're one we're gonna wonder like why are we here what are we doing let's find out well i i mean i think we should take the actions the set of actions that are most likely to make the future better yes right yeah right right and then we evaluate those actions to make sure they're they're that it's true well i think there's a movement to that i mean in terms of like a social movement i think some of it's misguided and some of it's exaggerated and there's a lot of a lot of people that are fighting for

53:30their side out there but it seems like the general trend of like uh social awareness seems to be much more heightened now than has ever been in any other time in history because of our ability to express ourselves instantaneously to each other through facebook or twitter or what have you and that the trend is to uh abandon preconceived notions abandon prejudice abandon discrimination and promote kindness and happiness as much as possible look at this knife somebody gave it to me sorry yeah what is this the did you do my friend donny he brought this with him and it just stayed here i have a real samurai sword if you want to play with that i know you're into weapons that's from the 1500s samurai at the end of the table yeah that's cool i'll grab it hold on yeah that's a legit samurai sword from an actual samurai from the 1500s if you pull out that blade that blade was made the old way

54:37where a master craftsman folded that metal and hammered it down over and over again over a long period of time and honed that blade into what it is now what's crazy is that more than 500 years later that thing is still pristine i mean whoever took care of that and passed it down to the next person who took care of it and you know until it got to the podcast room it's pretty crazy yeah one day someone's going to be looking at a tesla like that these back doors they pop up sideways like a lamborghini you should see what tesla can do uh you didn't you should i'll show you afterwards well i've driven one i love them yeah but most people don't know what it can do in terms of like ludicrous mode in terms of driving super fast and irresponsibly on public roads is that what we're saying well any call can do that yeah what can it do that that i need to know about i mean the

55:39model x can do this like ballet thing to the trans-siberian orchestra it's pretty cool where it dances yes legitimately moves around why would you program that into a car seemed like fun that's what i get about you that's what's weird like when you showed up here you were all smiles and you pull out a blow torch and not a blow torch but i'm like look at this dude a flamethrower not a flamethrower like you want to be clear it's definitely not playing you're having fun like this is uh like this thing when you know you program a car to do a ballet dance it's very fun how do you have the time to do that i don't understand why you're digging holes under the earth and centered rockets into space and and powering people in australia like how the do you have time to make the car dance ballet well i mean in that case there were some engineers at tesla that said you know what if we

56:39make this car dance and play music i was like that sounds great please do it let's try to get it done in time for christmas we did is there a concern about someone just losing their mind and making it do that on the highway no it won't do that what if it's in bumper-to-bumper traffic nope no won't do it nope it's actually you have to it's an easter egg oh it's an easter egg yeah that's why people don't know about it including people have the car well it's like it can do lots of things lots of things once reddit gets a hold of it everyone's oh you just have to it's everyone if you search for it on the internet you will find out but people don't know that they should even search for it oh well they do now yes yes there's so many things about the model x and the model s and the model 3 that people don't know about we should probably do a video or something

57:33and explain it because i have close friends of mine and i say do you know the call can do this and they're like nope do you want to do a video though do you like the fact that some people don't know no i think it's probably not we should tell people yeah probably yes that would help your product i mean it's not like you don't sell enough of them you sell almost too many of them right the i mean i think a tesla is the most fun thing you could possibly buy ever that's what it's meant to be well our goal is to make it's it's not exactly a car it's actually a thing to maximize enjoyment electronic like big screen laptop ridiculous speed handling all that stuff yeah do you you have going to put video games in it you are yeah is that wise well you won't be able to drive while you're playing the video game but we're like for example we just we're just putting the the atari emulator raw

58:47emulator in it so you'll be able to play missile command and lunar lander and a bunch of other things yeah that sounds cool it's pretty fun i like that yeah and we improved the interface and missile command because it's too hard with the old trackball so this is this is a touchscreen version of missile command so you have a chance do you you have an old car don't you don't you have like an old jaguar yeah how do you know that that's that's what another uh 61 series one e-type jaguar i love cars it's great yeah i love old cars that's one of the only yeah the only two got only two gasoline cars i have of that and an old like a ford model t that a friend of mine gave me that's those are only two gasoline cars is the ford model t all stock well oh there's your car ooh look i have the convertible that is a cool car god that's a good looking car yes is that yours that is

59:47it's not mine it's extremely close to mine that i don't have a friend's license plate on mine oh it's a beautiful car they nailed it that's that's mine looks like that god they nailed that that's what mine looks like maybe that is mine there's certain iconic shapes yes and there's there's something about those cars too they're not as capable not nearly as capable as like a tesla but there's something really satisfying about the mechanical aspect of like feeling the steering and the grinding of the gears and the shifting there's something about those that's extremely satisfying even though they're not that competent like i have a 1993 porsche 964 it's like a lightweight it's not it's in the rs america it's not very fast it's not like in comparison to a tesla or anything like that but the thing about it is like it's mechanical you feel it everything's like

60:43it's like it gives you this weird thrill like you're on this clinky ride and there's all this feedback there's something to that yeah yeah absolutely i mean yeah my e-type is like basically no electronics yeah um you like that but you also like electronics yes like your tesla is supe it's like the far end of electronics yes drives itself it's driving itself better every day yeah it's like we're about to release the software that will enable you to just turn it on and it'll drive from highway on-ramp to highway exit do lane changes to overtake other cars jesus go from one interchange to the next if you get on say the 405 and get on get off 300 miles later and go through several highway interchanges and just overtake other cars and hook into the nav system and then uh and you're just meditating home yeah your car's just traveling very it's kind of eerie

61:48it's kind of eerie what did you think when you saw that video that dude falling asleep behind the wheel i'm sure you've seen it the one in san francisco he's like right outside of san jose dudes out cold like this and the car is in bumper to bumper traffic moving along yeah have you seen it right yeah yeah we changed the software we changed the software that's i think an old video we changed software if if you don't touch the wheel it will gradually slow down and put the emergency lights on and wake you up oh that's hilarious yeah that's hilarious yeah can you choose what voice wakes you up well it's sort of more of a it sort of honks oh it honks this should be like wake up face well you're endangering your fellow humans we could we could gently wake you up with a sultry voice ah that would be good like uh something with a southern accent hey why can't we wake up sunshine hey sweetie

62:38exactly why don't you wake up you're like pick you could pick your right like what do you want yeah i choose the australian girl for siri yeah i like her voice do you want to seduce my favorite i like australian what flavor of do you want to be angry could be anything you want those australian prison lady jeans now when you um when you program something like that in is this in response to a concern or is it your own yeah if you do you look at it and go hey um they shouldn't just be able to fall asleep let's wake them up yeah yeah we it's like you know we're like well you know people are just falling asleep we're about to do something about that right but when you first released it you didn't consider it right you're just like well no one's gonna just sleep people fall asleep in cars all the time all the time and crash yeah at least our car doesn't crash that's better

63:28it's better not to crash imagine if that guy had fallen asleep in a in a gasoline car they do it all the time for sure yeah they would crash into somebody yeah and in fact the thing that really you know got me to it's like man we better get autopilot going get it out there it was a guy was in an early tesla driving down the highway and he fell asleep and he ran over a cyclist and killed him and it's like i was like man if we had autopilot wouldn't run out of one we might have fallen asleep but at least he wouldn't run over that cyclist so how did you implement it like did you just use cameras and yeah programmed with the the system so that if it sees images it slows down and how much time do you give is the person who's in control of it allowed to program how fast it goes yes yeah you can program it to be more or less like more conservative like more aggressive driver

64:30um and you can say what speed you want it to what what speed is okay i know you have ludicrous mode do you have douchebag mode well it just cuts people off well for lane changes it's tricky because if you're in like la like unless you're pretty aggressive right it's pretty it's hard to change lanes it's hard to be sat nam it's hard to be namaste out here in l.a yeah you get if you want to hit that santa monica boulevard off-ramp i mean you got to be a little pushy you got to be a little pushy yeah especially angry yeah a little angry they don't want you in they speed up sometimes you know i think people like overall are pretty nice on the highway even in la but sometimes they're not do you think the neural link will help that probably everybody be locked in together this hive mind tunnels will help it won't have traffic that'll help a lot yeah how many of those can you put in

65:25there because thinking about traveling buddy nice thing about tunnels is you can go 3d so you can go many levels right so until you hit hell yeah but you could go you could have a hundred levels of tunnel no bombs jesus christ i don't want to be on 99. that'll be the 99th negative 99 floors whoo this is one of the fundamental things people don't appreciate about tunnels is that it's not like roads the fundamental issue with roads is that you have a 2d transport system and a 3d living and workspace environment so you got all these tall buildings or concentrated work environments and and then then you want to go into this like 2d transport system which is hugely inefficient pretty low density because cars are spaced out pretty far and and so that obviously is not going to work you're going to have traffic guaranteed but if you can go 3d on your transport system

66:22then you can solve all traffic you can either go 3d up with a flying car or go 3d down with tunnels you can have as many tunnel levels as you want and you can arbitrarily relieve any amount of traffic you can go further down with tunnels than you can go up with buildings you're ten thousand feet down if you want i wouldn't recommend it but what was that movie with uh what's his face bradley coote not bradley cooper uh christian no what the his name who is batman christian bale where he they fought dragons him and matthew mcconaughey they went down deep into the earth how how how deep can you go yeah it was it was batman fought dragons batman but it was christian rain of fire rain of fire okay ever saw that no yeah earth is a giant ball of lava with a thin crust on the top which we think of as like the surface this thin crust and it's mostly just a big bowl of lava

67:36that's earth but ten thousand feet's not a big deal have you given any consideration whatsoever to the flat earth movement i think that's a troll situation oh it's not no it's not you would like to think that because you're a super genius but i as a normal normal person i know there's people way dumber than me and they really really believe they watch youtube videos which go on uninterrupted and spew out a bunch of fake facts very eloquently and articulately and they really believe these people really believe i mean if it works for them sure fine fine it's weird though right that this age where you know there's ludicrous mode in your car goes 1.9 seconds 0 to 60. 2.2 2.2 which one's 1.9 the road the next generation roadster okay standard edition yeah i'm on top of this that's just that's that's what the standard edition yeah so it's about the performance package what performance package

68:45yeah what what the do you need to put rocket thrusters on it for real yes what are they to burn nothing uh high ultra high pressure compressed air whoa just call gas thrusters do you have to have air tanks or they just suck in the air out of okay yeah i just have electric pump whoa pump it up to like ten thousand psi and how fast are we talking zero to sixteen how fast you wanna go i'm so i'm gonna go we could make it just fly i wanna go back in time make it fly you make it fly sure do you anticipate that as being i mean you were talking about the tunnels and then flying cars do you really think that's going to be real too noisy and there's too much air flow so the fundamental issue with flying cars i mean if you get like one of those like toy drones think of how much how loud those are and how much air that they how much air they blow now imagine if that's like a thousand times heavier

69:38this is not going to be make your neighbors happy your neighbors are not going to be happy if you land a flying car in your backyard it will be very helicopters helicopter or on your roof they're just really going to be like what the hell that was annoying yeah you can't even like if you want a flying car just put some wheels on a helicopter is there a way around that like what if they figure out some sort of magnetic technology like all those bob lazar type characters were thinking that was a part of the ufo technology they were doing it area 51 remember didn't they have some some thoughts about magnetics nope no yes really yeah there's a fundamental momentum exchange with the air so you must uh you you must accelerate you there's there's like there's there's a certain you have a mass and you have gravity gravitational acceleration and mass mass times your mass times

70:36gravity must equal the mass of airflow times the acceleration of that air flow to have a neutral force so it's impossible and then you won't move but if okay if mg is greater than m a you will go down and if ma is greater than mg you will go up that's how it works there's just no way around that there is definitely no way around it there's no way to create some sort of a magnetic something or another that allows you to technically yes you you could have a strong enough magnet but that magnet would be so strong that you would create a lot of trouble we just suck cars up into your car just pick up i mean you'd have to rappel off of either material on the ground or in a really nutty situation off of earth's gravitational field and somehow make that incredibly light but that magnet would cause so much destruction you'd be better off with a helicopter so if there was some sort of

71:46magnet road like you have two magnets and they repel each other if you had some sort of a magnet road that was below you and you could travel on that magnet road that would work hahaha yes yes you could have a magnet road a magnet road is that too ridiculous no it would work so you could do that ridiculous too right i would not recommend it there's a lot of things i don't recommend i would super not recommend that not good not wise i think no roads no no that no definitely not definitely it was good that would cause a lot of trouble so you've put some time and consideration into this other than uh you know instead of like my foolishly rendered thoughts so you think that tunnels are the way to do it oh it'll work for sure that'll work yes and your these these tunnels that you're building right now these are basically just like test versions of this ultimate idea that you have

72:46you know it's just a hole in the ground right we played videos of it where you just your idea is that you're going to drop that hole in the ground there's a sled on it and the sled goes very fast like 100 miles an hour plus yeah you can go real fast you know fast as you want and then if you want to go long distances you can just draw the air out of the tunnel make sure it's real straight draw the air out of the tunnel yeah it's a vacuum tunnel um because the then and then depending on how fast you want to go you need these wheels or you could use air bearings depending upon the ambient pressure in the tunnel or you could mag levitt if you want to go super fast um so magnet road yes but underground magnet roads underground manual otherwise you're going to really create a lot of trouble with because there's metal things ah so magnet road's the way to go just

73:38underground if you want to go really fast underground you would be in you would be maglev in a vacuum tunnel mag in a vacuum tunnel magnetic levitation in a vacuum tunnel one with rocket launchers no i would not recommend putting any exhaust gas in the tunnel oh okay i see what you're saying you're going to pump it out right you'll have to pump it out and you probably have a limited amount of air in the first place like how much can you breathe do you have to pump oxygen into these cubicles you'd have a pressurized pot to be like like a little tiny underground spaceship basically like an airplane because you have air in the airplane it's not getting new air in it is it is yes they have like a little hole yeah they have a pump really yeah it gets it from the outside yes wow i didn't know that it's like it's the air is airplanes have it have it easy because they essentially you can

74:29they're pretty leaky uh but jesus yeah so long as they as long as the air pump is working at a decent speed they have backup pumps oh still have like you know three pumps or four pumps or something and uh and then that then there's like there's an ex it exhausts through the outflow valve and and through whatever seals are not sealing quite right usually the door doesn't seal quite right on a plane this is a bit of leakage around the door and uh and but the pumps uh exceed the outflow rate and then that sets the pressure in the in the cabin now have you ever looked at planes and gone i could fix this i just don't have time how does it make it design for a plane you do yes a better design i mean probably i think it is yes who have you talked to about this and i've talked to friends friends friends and i'm your friend girlfriends you can tell me what do you got what's going on well i

75:37mean the exciting thing to do would be some sort of electric vertical takeover landing supersonic jet of some kind of vertical takeoff and let it be no need for a runway just shoot up straight in the air and then how would you do that when they do that and some military aircrafts correct yes the trick is that you have you have to transition to level flight um and then you the the the thing that you'd use for vertical tail for takeover landing is not suitable for high-speed flight so you have two different systems i thought about this quite a lot i've thought about the screen quite a lot the interesting thing about an electric plane is that you want to go as high as possible but you need a certain energy density in the battery pack um because you have to overcome gravitational potential energy once you've overcome gravitational potential energy and you're at at a high altitude the energy

76:35you use in cruise is very low and then you can recapture a large part of your the gravitational potential energy on the way down so you really don't need any kind of reserve fuel if you will because you have the the energy of height gravitational potential energy this is a lot of energy so so once you can get high at high you the the like the way to think about a plane is it's a force balance so the force balance so a plane that is not accelerating um is a neutral force balance yeah the force of gravity you have the lift force of the wings then you've got the force of the whatever thrusting device the the propeller or turbine or whatever it is and you've got the resistance force of the air now the higher you go the lower the air resistance is air density drops exponentially but drag increases with the square an exponential beats a square the higher you go the faster you will go

77:40for the same amount of energy at a certain altitude you will you can go supersonic with less energy per mile quite a lot less energy per mile than an aircraft at 35 000 feet because it's just a force balance i'm too stupid for this conversation it makes sense though no i'm sure it does now when you think about this new idea of of of designing it i mean when when you have this idea about improving planes are you going to bring this to somebody or you just chuck i have a lot on my plate right that's what i'm saying i don't know i don't know how you do what you do now but if you keep coming up with these but it's got to be hard to pawn these off on someone else either hey go do a job good job with this vertical take off and landing system that i want to implement to regular planes the airplane electric airplane isn't necessary right now electric cars are important solar energy is important

78:49stationary storage of energy is important these things are much more important than creating electric supersonic fetal also the planes naturally you really want that gravitational energy density for an aircraft and this is improving over time so you know it's important that we accelerate the transition to sustainable energy that's why electric cars it matters whether electric cars happen sooner or later you know we're really playing the crazy game here with the atmosphere and the oceans we're taking vast amounts of carbon from deep underground and putting this putting this knee in the atmosphere this is crazy we should not do this it's very dangerous so we should we should accelerate the transition to sustainable energy i mean this the bizarre thing is that obviously we're going to run out of oil in the long term you know we're gonna there's only so much oil we can

79:56we can mine and burn it's total logical we must have such a sustainable energy transport and energy infrastructure in the long term so we know that's the end point we know that so why run this crazy experiment where we take trillions of tons of carbon from underground and put it in the atmosphere and oceans this is an insane experiment it's the dumbest experiment in in human history why are we doing this it's crazy do you think this is a product of momentum that we started off doing this when it was just a few engines a few 100 million gallons of fuel over the whole world not that big of a deal and then slowly but surely over a century it got out of control and now it it's not just our fuel but it's also i mean fossil fuels are involved in so many different electronics so many different items that people buy there's just this constant desire for fossil fuels constant

80:57need for oil without consideration of the sustainability the things like oil oil coal gas it's the easy money right it's easy money so have you heard about clean coal the president's been tweeting about it's got to be real clean coal all caps did you see he used all caps clean coal um well you know it's very difficult to put that co2 back in the ground it doesn't like being in solid form it takes a lot of energy like that like some sort of a filter giant building sized filter sucks carbon out of the atmosphere no no it doesn't it's not possible no no no no definitely in no we're not i mean this is quite a complex question right you know we're really just when we're the more carbon we take out of the ground and add to the atmosphere and and a lot of it gets permeated into the oceans the more dangerous it is like i i don't think right now i think we're okay right now we can

82:09probably even add some more but the momentum towards sustainable energy is too slow like the there's a vast base of industry vast transportation system like this there's two and a half billion cars and trucks in the world so and and the the new car and truck production if it was a hundred percent electric that's only about a hundred million per year so it would take if you could snap your fingers and instantly turn all old cars and trucks electric it would still take 25 years to change the transport base to electric makes sense because how long does a truck car truck last before it goes into the junkyard and gets crushed about 20 to 25 years is there a way to accelerate that process like some sort of subsidies or some encouragement from the government financially well the thing that is going on right now is that there's a an inherent subsidy in any oil burning

83:15device any any power plant or car is fundamentally uh consuming the carbon capacity of the oceans and atmosphere or just say atmosphere for short so like you can say okay there's a certain probability of something bad happening past a certain carbon concentration in the atmosphere and so there's some uncertain number where if we put too much carbon in the atmosphere things overheat oceans warm up ice caps melt ocean real estate becomes a lot less valuable something's underwater and and but it's not clear what that number is but it's definitely a scientist with all it's really quite the scientific scientific consensus is overwhelming um overwhelming i mean i don't know any serious scientists actually zero literally zero who who don't think that you know that that we were have quite a serious climate risk that we're facing and so there's fundamentally a subsidy occurring

84:33with every fossil fuel burning thing power plants aircraft car frankly even rockets i mean rockets use up you know they burn they burn fuel but there's just you know with rockets there's just no other way to to get to orbit unfortunately so it's the only way but with cars there's definitely a better way with electric cars and to generate the energy do so with photovoltaics because we've got a giant thermonuclear reactor in the sky called the sun it's great it shows up every day very reliable so if you can generate energy from solar panels stored with batteries you can have energy 24 hours a day um and then you can you know concentrate to the poles or near to the north uh with uh you know high voltage lines also the north northern part parts of the world tend to have a lot of hydropower as well but anyway all fossil fuel powered things have an inherent subsidy which is their

85:42consumption of the carbon capacity of the atmosphere and oceans so people tend to think like why why should electric vehicles have a subsidy but they're not taking into account that all fossil fuel burning vehicles fundamentally are subsidized by the cost the environmental cost to earth but nobody's paying for it we are going to pay for it obviously in the future we will pay for it it's just not paid for now now what is the bottleneck in regards to electric cars and trucks and things like that is it battery capacity yeah i've got to scale up production got to make the car compelling make it better than gasoline or diesel cars make it more efficient in terms of like the distance it can travel yeah you're going to be able to go far far enough recharge fast and your roadster you're you're anticipating 600 miles is that correct yeah yeah what is it 600 miles is that

86:49right now like have you driven one 600 miles now no we could totally make one right now that would do 600 miles but the thing is too expensive so it's like the car much more so well you know just have a 200 kilowatt hour battery pack and you can go 600 miles what do you have now 330 mile range so that's really 30 miles what is that in terms of kilowatts well that would be for a model s 100 kilowatt hour pack will do about 330 miles maybe 335 but some people have hypermiled it to 500 miles hyper mild it would yeah i just like go on 45 miles an hour or something yeah they're like 30 miles an hour or something it's like on level ground with you pump the tires up really well and go on a smooth surface and and you can go for a long time um but do you like definitely comfortably do 300 miles is fine for most people uh usually 200 or 250 miles is fine 300 miles is

87:52you don't even think about it really is there any possibility that you could use solar power that solar powered one day especially in los angeles i mean as you said about that giant nuclear reactor a million times bigger than earth just floating in the sky is it possible that one day you'll be able to just power all these cars just on solar power i mean we don't ever have cloudy days if we do there's three of them well the surface area of a car is without making the car like really blocky um or having some like a g wagon yeah like and just like having like a lot of surfs area where like maybe like solar panels fold out or something like your e-class that's what we needed uh the e-type yeah that the e-jaguar e-type with a giant long hood that could be a giant solar panel well at the beginning of tesla i did want to have this like unfolding solar panel thing

88:44that you'd press a button and it would just like unfold these solar panels and like charge recharge your car in the parking lot ah yeah we could do that but i think it's probably better to just put that on your roof right and yeah and then it's going to just be facing the sun all the time because like what car otherwise your car could be in the shade you know covering the shade in a garage or something like that yeah didn't a fisker have that on the roof the fiskar karma new generation for i believe it was only for the the radio is that correct yeah i mean i think it could like recharge like two miles a day or something did you laugh when they started blowing up when they got hit with water do you remember what happened they got the what yeah they when they had a a dealership or oh yeah the fisker karmas were parked was that like that with a flood in jersey yes yes when the

89:32the hurricane came in they got overwhelmed with water and they all started exploding this great video of it did you watch the video i i didn't watch the video but i didn't see that picture of the ass being naked lubed up watched that video laughed my ass off they all blow up they got wet and they blew up that's not good yeah we made our battery waterproof so that doesn't happen smart move yeah there's a guy in kazakhstan that um i think it was kazakhstan that he he just boated through a tunnel under an underwater tunnel like a flooded tunnel and just turn the wheels to steer and press the accelerator and it just floated through the tunnel and he's wow steered around the other cars you're like that's amazing it's on the internet what happens if your car gets a little sideways like if you're driving in snow like what if you're driving if your auto pilot

90:26is on and you're in like denver and it snows out and your car gets a little sideways does it correct itself oh yeah it's got great traction control but does it know how to like correct do you know how like oh yeah your ass end kicks out you know how to counter steer oh yeah no it's really good it knows how to do it yeah wow it's pretty crazy that's pretty crazy yeah so like if you're going sideways it knows how to correct itself it generally won't go sideways it won't no why not it will correct itself before it goes sideways even in black eyes yeah this video is where you could see the car be uh try it alone traction control system is very good it makes you feel like superman it's great you like you feel like you can like this it will make you feel like this incredible driver i believe it yeah now how do you program we do our testing on like an ice lake in sweden

91:25oh really yeah and like norway and canada and a few other places porsha does a lot of that too new zealand as well they do a lot of their they do some of their driver training school on these frozen surfaces so you're just you the car's going sideways whether you like it or not and you have to learn how to slide into corners and how to adjust well electric cars have really great traction control because the reaction time is so fast right so with the gasoline car you've got a lot of latency uh it takes a while for the and the engine to react and for the you know but for elec electric motors incredibly precise um that's why you like you can imagine like like if you had like a printer or something uh you would only you wouldn't have a gasoline engine printer that would be pretty weird um or or like a surgical device it's gonna be an electric motor on the surgical device on the printer

92:23gasoline engine's gonna be just chugging away it's not going to have the reaction time but to an electric motor it's operating at the millisecond level so it can turn on track on and off traction within like inches of getting on the honest like let's say drive a patch of ice it'll turn traction off and then turn it on a couple inches right after the ice like it's a little patch of ice because in in the frame of the electric motor you're moving incredibly slowly you're like a snake it's you're a snail you're just moving so slowly because it's it's it can see at a thousand frames a second and so it's say one mississippi it it just thought about at things a thousand times so it's realized that your wheels are not getting traction it understands there's some slippery surface that you're driving on yes and it makes adjustments in real time yes in milliseconds

93:23that would that would be so much safer than a regular car yes it is just that alone for loved ones you'd you'd want them to be driving your car yes i'm on dude board regular motors the the s x and three are have the lowest probability of injury of any cars ever tested by the us government wow this is yeah but it's pretty funny it's pretty crazy like we you know people still sue us like they'll have like some accident at 60 miles an hour where they'd like twisted an ankle and they sleep they like they'll be dead in another car they still sue us but that's to be expected it is to be expected do you take that into account with like the same sort of fatalistic uh you know undertones just sort of just go uh you gotta just let it go this is what people do tell you i've got it that's what it is quite a lot of respect for the justice system judges are very smart

94:25and they see they've like i haven't so far i've found judges to be very good at justice because i like like what like and juries are good too like they're actually quite good um you know people you know you read about like occasional errors in the justice system let me tell you most the time they're very good um and like you know the guy i mentioned that who fell asleep in the car and he he rode over a cyclist and you know and and that was what encouraged me to get autopilot out as soon as possible that guy sued us he sued you for falling asleep yes he i i'm not kidding he blames it on the new car smell what yes he blamed him falling asleep on your new car smell there's someone there's a lawyer this is a real thing somewhere there's a lawyer that thought that through in front of his laptop before he wrote that up yes he got a lawyer and he sued us and the judge was like you're

95:28this is crazy stop bothering me no thank god yes thank god thank god there's a judge out there with a brain i'll tell you judges are judges are very good some of them what about that judgment a lot of boys up up the river in pennsylvania who is selling those kids out you know about that story yeah judge was selling young boys to prisons he was like literally yeah literally under bribes for he was was this an elected judge or he was like somebody said you have a judge that's like actually a politician no he's elected judge this is a very famous story who he's in jail right now i think for the rest of his life and he put away he he would take like a young boy would do something like steal something from a store and he would put him in detention for you know five years something ridiculously egregious and they investigated his history and they found out that he was literally being paid off

96:23um was it by private prisons is that what the the deal was there was some sort of uh but anyway this judges two judges two judges kids for cash scandal is what it's called 2008 yeah um common please judges so i think they are elected and who is paying them oh um someone it was proven to the point where they're in jail now that someone was paying them to uh put more asses in the seats in these private prisons a million dollar payment to put him in the youth centers builder a million dollar payment yeah i do think it's this private prisons thing is creating a bad incentive right yes um but i mean that judge is in prison um thank god yes but i i for people who think perhaps the justice system consists entirely of judges like that i want to assure you this is not the case the vast majority of judges are very good i agree and they care about justice and they could

97:23have made a lot more money if they wanted to be a trial lawyer and instead they cared about justice and they made less money because they care about justice and that's why they're judges i feel that same way about police officers i feel like there's so many interactions with so many different people with police officers that the very few that stand out that are horrific we we tend to look at that like this is evidence that police are all corrupt and i think that's crazy no most most police are are are very honest yes um and uh and and and and like the military evidence military personnel that i know are very honorable ethical people yes and much more ethical than the average person that's my impression that's my impression as well but and that's not to suggest that we be complacent and assume everyone's honest and ethical and obviously if somebody is is given a a

98:11trusted place in society such as being a police officer or a judge and they are corrupt then we must be extra vigilant against such situations yes and take action uh but but we should not think that this is somehow broadly descriptive of people in that profession i couldn't agree more i think there's also an issue with um one of the things that happens with police officers prosecutors and and anyone that's trying to convict someone or arrest someone is that it becomes a game and in games people want to win and sometimes people cheat yes yes i mean if you know if you're a prosecutor you should not always want to win there are times when you should like okay i just should not want to win this case um and then you know like just pass on that case sometimes people want to win too much that is true um i think also the it becomes tough if you're if you're like a district attorney you know

99:07you you tend to sort of see a lot of criminals and then your your view of the world can get negatively yes you know have a negative you know you have a negative view of the world because you know you're just interacting with a lot of criminals but actually most of society is not consistent criminals right um and i actually had this conversation at dinner several years ago with district attorney i was like man it must sometimes seem pretty pretty dark because you know man there's some some terrible human beings out there and he was like yep and he was like dealing with some case which consisted of a couple of old ladies that would run people over somehow for insurance money it was rough i was like wow that's that's that's pretty rough it's like it's like hard to maintain faith in humanity if you're a district attorney but but you know it's only a few percent of society that are

100:05actually bad and then if you go to the worst say point one percent of society or the worst one in a thousand one in a million you know like how bad is the millionth worst person in the united states pretty damn bad like damn evil like the the millionth like the millionth well one in a million of evil is so evil people cannot even conceive of it but there's 330 million people in the united states so that's 330 people out there somewhere but by the same token there's also 330 people who are incredible angels and unbelievably good human beings yeah on the other side but because of our fear of danger we tend to our thoughts tend to gravitate towards the worst case scenario yes and we want to frame that and it's one of the real problems with prejudice we want whether it's prejudice towards different minorities or prejudice towards police officers or anything

101:08it's like we want to look at the worst case scenario and say this is an example of what this is all about and you see that even with people how they frame genders some some men frame women like that they get ripped off by a few women and they decide all women are evil some women get over by a few men all men are and and this this is very toxic and it's also it's a very unbalanced way of viewing the world and it's very emotionally based and it's based on your own experience your own anecdotal experience and it can it can be very influential to the people around you and it's just it's a dangerous way it's a dangerous thought process and pattern to promote it is it is a very dangerous pattern i really think you know people should give other people the benefit of the doubt and assume that they're good until proven otherwise and i think really most people are actually pretty good people

102:03nobody's perfect they have to be if you think of the vast numbers of us that are just interacting with each other with each other constantly yeah we have to be better than we think we are yeah there's no way like there's no other way i mean hear all these weapons like but how many times like nobody's presumably trying to murder you and you're nobody yes nobody's like putting that's right it's right there fake flamethrower here it's not not a flamethrower now we got a real problem i'm gonna put it on that side too i'm gonna leave it for the guests yeah i'm like look man if i say something that up it's right there so we'll liven things up for sure it's guaranteed to make any party better yeah well that's i mean that's the armed uh civilization theory right that a an armed uh community is a safe and polite community yeah texas it's kind of true yeah i mean

102:53people in texas are super polite and everyone's got a gun yes don't make somebody angry yeah i don't know don't know what's going to happen yeah it's not a good move yeah piss people off when everybody can have a gun yeah off to just let that guy get in your lane yeah yeah uh you know we got a big uh test site in central texas near waco oh beautiful yeah spacex uh in mcgregor um it's about 15 minutes away from wake up that's close to where ted nugent lives shout out to ted nugent okay cool yeah um yeah they're you know we have luck lots of fire and loud explosions and things and people like that they're cool with it they don't give a out there they're very supportive yeah that you can buy fireworks where you know your kids go to school yeah it's you know it's dangerous yeah but it's free it's free there's something about texas that's very enticing because of that

103:47it is dangerous but it's also free right yeah yeah i kind of like texas actually well i prefer it over places that are more restrictive but more liberal because you could always be liberal like just because things are free and just because you have a certain amount of you know right wing type characters it doesn't mean you have to be that way you know and and honestly there's a lot of those people that are pretty open-minded and let you do whatever you want to do right you don't bother them yeah exactly that's my hope right now with um the way we're able to communicate with each other today and how radically different it is than generations past is that we all just the dust settles and we all realize like like what you were saying that most people are good most people are good the vast majority yes i think you should give people the benefit of that for sure i think you're right

104:39yeah you know who can help that what mushrooms don't you think they're delicious yeah right yeah they're good for you too yeah all of them all kinds of them um what do you see in terms of like when you think about the future of your companies what do you see as like bottlenecks you want some more of those uh sure thank you what do you see in terms of like bottlenecks of things that are that are holding back innovation is it regulatory commissions and and people that don't understand the technology that are influencing policy like what what what could potentially be holding you guys back right now is there anything that you would change yeah that's a good question you know i wish i wish politicians were better at science that would help a lot that's a problem yes there's no incentive for them to be good at science there isn't um actually you know they're pretty good at science in china

105:50i have to say yeah the mayor of beijing is i believe in environmental engineering degree and the deputy mayor as a physics degree i met them and uh mayor shanghai is really smart and you're up on technology what do you think about this government policy of of stopping use of huawei phones and there's there's something about the the the worry about spying is i mean from what i've understand from real tech people they think it's horseshit oh i like phones i don't know i don't know um like the government say don't you buy huawei phones does that do are you up on that at all no should we just abandon this idea well i think like i guess if you're if you're uh if you have like top secret stuff um then you want to be pretty careful about what hardware you use uh but you know like most people do not have top secret stuff right and like nobody really cares what porn you watch you know right

106:51like it's like nobody actually cares you know so and if they do that's kind of on them like national spy agencies do not care do not give a rat's ass what porn you watch they do not care so like what secrets does a national spy agency have to learn from the average citizen nothing well that's the argument against the the narrative and the argument by a lot of these tech people is that the real concern is that these companies like huawei are innovating at a radical pace and they're trying to stop them from integrating into our culture and letting this like right now they're the number two cell phone manufacturer in the world okay samsung's number one huawei is number two apple is now number three they surpassed apple's number two and the idea is that this is all taking place without them having any foothold whatsoever in america there are no there's no

107:48carriers that have their phones you have to buy their phones unlocked through some sort of a third party and then put it okay so and the the worry is you know that these are somehow another controlled by the chinese government the communist chinese government is going to distribute these phones and i don't know if it's the worries economic influence that they'll have too much power i don't know what it is are you are you paying attention on any of this not really you know i don't think we should worry too much about huawei phones uh you know maybe you know our national security agencies shouldn't have huawei phones maybe that's a question mark uh but uh i think for the average citizen it doesn't matter doesn't doesn't like no they're not i'm pretty sure the chinese government does not care about the goings-on of the average american citizen is there is there a time where you

108:45think that there will be no security will be impossible to hold back information that whatever bottleneck we'll we'll let go we're gonna we're gonna give in that whatever bottleneck between privacy and ultimate innovation will have to be bridged in order for us to achieve the next level of technological proficiency that we're just going to abandon it and there'll be no no security no privacy do people want privacy because they seem to put everything on the internet well right now they're confused but when you're talking about your neural link and this this idea that one day we are going to be able to share information we're going to be some sort of a thing that's symbiotically create uh symbiotically connected yeah i think we really need to worry about security in that situation and for sure that's like a security paramount sure yeah but also what we will be

109:35is will be so much different our concerns about money about status about well all these things will seemingly go by the wayside if we really become enlightened if we really become artificially enlightened by some sort of an ai interface where we have this symbiotic relationship with some new internet type connection to information what you know what happens then what what is important what is not important is privacy important when we're all gods i mean i think the things that we think are important to keep private right now right we probably will not think are shame right information right what do you what do you hide emotions what are we hiding i mean i think like i don't know maybe it's like embarrassing stuff right embarrassing stuff but there's actually like i think people there's like not that much that's kept private that people that is actually relevant

110:43right that's people what other people actually care about and we think other people care about it but they don't really care about it and certainly governments don't well some people care about it but then it gets weird when you when it gets exposed like jennifer lawrence when those naked pictures of her got exposed like i think in some ways people liked her more they realized like she's just a person just a girl who likes sex and is just alive and has a boyfriend and sends them messages and now you get to look into it and you probably shouldn't of but somebody let it go and they put it online and all right she seems to be doing okay she's a person she's just you and me and it's the same thing she's just in some weird place where she's on a 35 foot tall screen with music playing every time she talks yeah i i i i mean i'm sure she's like not she's not happy about it but she's but

111:36she's clearly doing fine but once this interface is fully realized where we really do become something far more powerful in terms of our cognitive ability or our ability to understand irrational thoughts and and mitigate them and that we're all connected in some sort of an insane way what i mean how what our thoughts on wealth our thoughts on social status like how many of those just evaporate and our need for privacy maybe our need for privacy will be the ultimate bottleneck that we'll have to substitute that we'll have to surpass i think the things that we think are important now will probably not be important in the future but there will be things that are important what would be more different things i know there might be some more of ideas potentially i don't think darwin's going away right no one's going to be there no one dawn will be there forever forever

112:40yeah it would just be a different a different arena different arena a digital arena different arena darwin's not going away what keeps you up at night well it's quite hard to run companies yeah especially car companies i have to say it's quite challenging the car business is the hardest one of all the things you do yes because it's a consumer-oriented business as opposed to like spacex and not that spacex spacex there's no walk in the park but but a car company it's very difficult to keep a car company alive it's very difficult you know there's only two car companies in the history of american car companies that haven't gone bankrupt and that's ford and tesla that's it yeah ford rode out that crazy storm huh they're the only ones the skin of their teeth shout out to the mustang yeah yeah by the skin of their teeth that is interesting right same with tesla we

113:44barely survived how close did you get to folding very close we uh for 2008 is not a good time to be a car company especially a startup car company and especially an electric car company that was like stupidity squared and this is when you had those cool roadsters with the t-top yeah with the um target top yeah we had like uh he was a highly modified elise chassis the body was all completely different by the way that was a super dumb strategy that we actually did was dumb it was based on two false premises uh one false premise was that we'd be able to cheaply convert the lotus elise and use that as a car platform and that we would be able to use technology from this little company called ac propulsion for the electric drivetrain and the battery problem is the ac propulsion technology did not work in production and we ended up using none of it in the long term

114:49none of it we had to redesign everything and then the once you add a battery pack an electric motor to the car it got heavier got 30 heavier invalidated the entire structure all the crash structure everything had to be redone nothing like i think it had less than seven percent of the parts were common with any other device including cars or anything that's the seven percent yes everything including tires and wheels bolts brakes yeah even the steering wheel see the steering wheel was i think the steering wheel was almost the same yes the the windscreen when it's different no i think the windscreen is the same same yes i think i think we were able to keep this last seven percent so that's right basically every body panel is different the entire structure was different the uh we couldn't use the h like the hvac system the you know the air conditioner was a belt-driven air conditioner

115:49so now we needed uh something that was electrically driven we need a new ac compressor and all that takes away from the battery life as well right yeah we needed a small highly efficient air conditioning system um that fit in a tiny car and was electrically powered not belt driven it was very difficult how much did those weigh the those cars the roadster i think it was about twenty seven hundred pounds that's still very sound depending on which version twenty six fifty to twenty seven fifty pounds something like that and what was the weight distribution um it was about fifty well there were different versions of the car um so it was about 55 on the rear because it was rear biased right but not bad like considering like a 911 which is like one of the most popular sports cars of all time heavy rear end bias well i mean yeah the 911 i think the joke is like they managed to

116:48despite newton not being on their side yeah if you're fighting newton it's very difficult well it's like you've got those the moments of inertia on a 911 don't make any sense they do once you understand them once you understand you don't want to hang the engine off the ass this is not a wise move you don't want to let up on the gas when you're in a corner the problem with whether with with something that's where the engine is mounted over the rear axle or off the rear axle towards the rear is that your moment of inertia is fundamentally screwed you cannot solve this it's unsolvable you're screwed you're screwed right like essentially if you spawn the car like a top that's your problem moment of inertia you're just i promised i wouldn't swear on this show by the way really to who because it was my friend tell that friend to go himself who told you not to swear

117:43afraid i'm not a good friend yes definitely realize you're elon musk you can do whatever you want man if you ever get confused call me i'll swear in private swear up a storm just say fricken it's a fun way there's like old house moms wives and that have children oh this freaking thing yeah but anyway like like the porsche is kind of incredible how well porsche handle is given that uh it's the physics yes the moments of inertia are so messed up uh to actually still make it work well is is incredible well if you know how to turn into the corner once you get used to the feeling of it there's actual benefits to it you know there are some benefits i enjoy i the car i had before tesla was a 911. oh okay that was 997 or six yeah 997 yeah yeah um great car man yeah i mean particularly with on the porsche when they had the variable vanes uh the turbo and you didn't have the turbo lag

118:46that was great yeah that was really great the turbo lag was is like you know if you floor it like phone home call your mom the older one about an hour later the car accelerates and super dangerous too because then the real wheels start spinning yeah yeah there's something fun about it though like feeling that rear weight kicking around you know and again it's quite efficient a good feel to it yeah yeah i agree but that's that's what i was talking about earlier about that little car that i have the 93 911 it's just there's it's not fast it's not it's not the best handling car but it's more satisfying than any other car i have because it's so mechanical it's like everything about it like crackles and bumps and it gives you all this feedback and i take it to the comedy store because when i get there i feel like my brain is just popping and it's on fire

119:37it's like a strategy for me now that i i really stopped driving other cars there i drive that car there just for the brain juice just for the the the inner the interaction i mean you should try model s p 100 d i'll try to blow your mind your skull okay yeah tell me what to order i'll order it model sp 100d okay jamie that's the best car that i drive okay okay i'll get with the car you drive okay it will blow your mind out of your scope i believe you how far can i drive how far about 300 miles that's good for la regular days you will never notice the battery never never how hard is it to get like one of them crazy plugs installed in your house that difficult no it's super easy it's like yeah it's like a dryer plug it's like a dryer outlet didn't you come up with some crazy tiles for your roof that are solar paneled yeah yeah we're i have it on my roof right now actually

120:33i'm just trying it out it's like it's the thing it takes a while to like test roof stuff because roofs have to last a long time right so like you want your roof to last like 30 years over a regular groove now so there's two versions there's like the solar panels you put on a roof so like depending on whether your roof's new or old so if your roof's new you don't want to replace the roof you want to put like solar panels on the roof right um so that's like retrofit you know and then we're trying to make the retrofit panels look real nice um and then but then the new product we're coming out with is if you if you have a roof that's either you're building a house or you're gonna replace your roof anyway then you make the site the tiles have solar solar cells embedded in the tiles and then it's quite a tricky thing because you want to not see the solar cell behind the

121:19like the glass tile uh so you have to really work with like the glass and and the various coatings and layers so that you don't see the solar cell behind the glass otherwise it doesn't look right right so it's really tricky there it is jamie put it up there yeah and that looks good see is there a uh see like if you look closely you can see if you're zooming like you can see the so you can see the cell but if you zoom out you don't see the cell right well it looks cool though like that's that's hard visible it's really hard because you have to have sunlight go through right but where to cut when this when it gets reflected back out it doesn't it it hides the fact that there's a cell there now are those available to the consumer right now well we have uh i think those on that roof right there yes that's amazing oh that looks good yeah oh i like that that one's hard

122:16oh so you got that kind of fake spanish looking thing i like that that's french slate that's white people in connecticut smoking pipes look at that one yeah that's badass dude so those all actually work i believe you so the the the the solar panels that are on that house that we just looked at is that sufficient to power the entire home it depends on your energy on how yeah yeah so um generally yes i would say it's probably for most it's going to vary but anywhere from more than you need to uh maybe half like call it a half to 1.5 of the energy that you need depending on how much roof you have relative to living space and how ridiculous you are with the tv tv is no problem air conditioning air conditioning okay air conditioning is the problem if you have an efficient air conditioner and you don't and depending on how like are you air conditioning rooms when they don't need

123:21to be air conditioned which is very common because it's a pain in the neck it's like programming a vcr it's like right you know it's just the blinking 12 and so people just like hell with that i'm just going to make it this temperature all day long right you don't have a smart home where if you're in the room then it stays cool right yeah it should predict when you're going to be home and then cool the room the rooms that you're likely to use with a little bit of intelligence we're not talking about like genius home here we're just talking like elementary basic stuff um you know like if you could hook that into the car like it knows you're coming home like there's no point in cooling the home keeping the comb keeping the whole the home really cool when you're not there right but it can tell that you're coming home it's going to cool it to the right temperature right you have an app there

124:07that works with your solar panels or anything like that yeah yeah we do and we need to hook it into the air conditioning to really make the air conditioning work have you thought about creating an air conditioning system i know you have a trick question cannot answer questions about future potential okay let's just let it go we'll move on to the next thing that would be an interesting idea yeah i would say radiant heating all that good ideas now when you when you think about the efficiency of these homes and you think about implementing solar power and battery power and is there anything else that people are missing is there any other like i just saw a smart watch that is powered by the heat of the human body it's some new technology it's able to fully power that way i don't know if it's fully or if it's like this watch right here this is a casio okay um it's called a uh pro-tec and

125:09it's in like an outdoors watch and it's solar-powered okay and so it has the ability to operate for a certain amount of time on solar yeah so if you have it exposed it could function for a certain amount of time on solar yeah well you know um like there's the self-winding watches where you know it's just got a weight in the watch and as you move your wrist the weight moves from one side to the other and it winds the watch up that's a pretty cool thing yeah yeah well it's amazing that like rolex is that it's all done mechanically there's no batteries in there there's no nothing yeah you could do the same thing create a little charger that's based on uh wrist movement it really depends on how much energy your watch uses you know what's up about that though we accept a certain amount of like with those watches like i brought my watch i have a rolex that my friend lorenzo

125:54gave me and i brought it to um the watch store and i said this thing's always fast i said it's always like after a couple months it's like five minutes fast and they go yep they go yeah really it's just what it does and i go hold on i go so you're telling me that it just is always going to be fast it's like yeah it's just like every few months you gotta like reset it seems like they should recalibrate that thing they can't they tried they say every few months whether it's four months or five months or six months it's gonna be a couple of minutes fast okay it seems like they should really uh recalibrate that because if it's always fast you can just you know delete those minutes you need to kick down the door at rolex and go you are lazy it's kind of amazing that you can keep tie mechanically on a wristwatch with these tiny little gears it's amazing yeah i mean the the whole

126:46luxury watch market is fascinating i i'm i'm not that involved in in terms like i don't buy them i bought them as gifts i don't buy them for myself but when i look at them online like there's million dollar watches out there now that are like they have like little rotating moons and stars and they they live like look at this thing how much is that one jamie these are preposterous i like gears i love them yeah i think they're beautiful but there's some of these people that are just taking it right in the ass they're buying these watches for like 750 000 i'm like yo that's a timex sun nobody knows it's not any better than some casio that you could just buy online like look at that though well here's the thing if you're a person that doesn't just want to know the time you want craftsmanship you want some artisans touch you want innovation in terms of like a person

127:43figuring out how gears and cogs all line up perfectly to every time it turns over it's basically a second i mean that's just there's there's art to that that's it yeah it's not just telling time i like this watch a lot but if it got hit by a rock i wouldn't be sad yeah it's just a watch it's a it's a mass-produced thing that runs on some quartz battery but those things that's there's art to that no i agree it's beautiful yeah yeah i love it yeah there's something there's something amazing about it it's because it represents the human creativity it's not just it's not just uh electronic innovation there's something there's there's a person's work in that yes but you don't have a watch on no ever i used to have a watch what happened mike my phone tells the time so good point what if you lose your phone do you wait hold on true let me guess you are a no case guy

128:47that's correct living on the edge looking on the edge without a case tyson neil degrasse tyson was in here last week i i marveled at his ability to get through life without a case that's right you know he takes his phone and he flips it in between his fingers like like a like a a a soldier would do with his rifle right he just rolls that in between his fingers okay marvelous wow he says that's the reason why they do it he said will you look at someone who has a rifle why would they do that why would they flip it around like that right so that when it goes to drop they have it in their hand they catch it quickly so that's what he does with his phone he's just flipping his phone around all the time i got that in mexico i was hoping it holds joints does it do anything it seems to open oh it's just a hole just a hole good storage storage in there but like

129:40try to put a joint in there close it you put like one one blunt one but it seems pretentious you know that's the idea behind it i bought it when i was in mexico because i figured it would be a good size to hold joints restaurant so is that a joint or is it a cigar no okay it's um marijuana inside of uh tobacco okay so it's like posh plot tobacco you never had that yeah i think i tried one once come on man you probably can't because stockholders right i mean it's legal right it's totally legal okay how does that work do people get upset at you if you do certain things there's tobacco and marijuana in there that's all it is the the combination of tobacco and marijuana is wonderful first turned onto it by charlie murphy and then reignited by dave chappelle there you go plus whiskey exactly perfect balances it out alcohol alcohol is a drug it's been grandfathered in

130:56well it's not just a drug it's a drug that gets a bad rap because you just have a little it's great fine yeah a little sip here and there and you just your inhibitions are relaxed and it shows your true self and hopefully you're more joyous and friendly and happy and and everything's good the real worry is the people that can't handle it like the real worry about people who can't handle cars that can go zero to 60 in 1.9 seconds or anything have you ever considered something that like imagine if one day everyone has a car that's on the same at least technological standard as one of your cars and everyone agrees that the smart thing to do is not just to have bumpers but to perhaps have some sort of a magnetic repellent device something some electro magnetic field around the cars that as cars come close to each other they automatically radically decelerate because of magnets or something

131:56well i mean our cars break automatically break yeah yeah when they see things yes but like a physical barrier like uh well the wheels work pretty well the wheels do yeah yeah they work pretty well decelerated that's you know 1.1 to 1.2 g's that kind of thing is there a concern that one day all your cars will be on the road and then they'll still be regular people with regular cars 20 30 years from now that'll get in the mix and be the the main problem yeah i think it'd be sort of like it was a time of transition where there were horses and gasoline cars on the road at the same time it's been pretty weird oh that'd be the weirdest yeah i mean horses were tricky you know back in uh manhattan had like 300 000 horses you figure like a horse lives 15 years you've got 20 000 horses dropping dead every day or every year i should say every year 20 000 horses if there's

132:58300 000 horses in 15-year lifespan back in the gangs in new york days that movie yeah yeah it's a lot of dead horses and you need a horse to move the horse right and they'll probably get pretty pretty freaked out if they have to move a dead horse do you think they know what's going on yeah i mean it's going to be like pretty weird no i would imagine am i dragging this dead you know horse around and i'm a horse do you ever stop and think about your role in civilization do you ever stop and think about your role in the culture because me as a person who never met you until today when i think of you you know i've always thought of you as being this weirdo super inventor dude who just somehow or another keeps coming up with new but there's not a lot of you out there like everybody else seems to be i mean obviously you make a lot of money and there's a lot of people that make a lot of money

133:52you like that clock yeah pretty dope right this is a great clock yeah you want one i'll get you one sure okay done i like weird things like this oh this is the coolest it's tgt promotion what is this tgt studios tgt studios yeah yeah um it's a gentleman who makes all this by hand yeah it's really cool my study is filled with weird devices well get ready for another one all right i'm sending it your way cool you want a werewolf too i'll hook you up all right i'll take one one werewolf and one clock coming up do you think about your role in the culture because me as a person who never met you until today i i've always looked at you and like wow like how's this guy just keep inventing like how do you how do you keep coming up with all these new devices and what do you ever consider how on you like i had a dream once that there was a million teslas instead of like one

134:51tesla there was a million teslas okay not chesley the car but nicola oh yeah sure and that in his day there was a million people like him who were radically innovative it was a weird dream man it was so strange and i've had it more than once result in very rapid technology innovation that's for sure it's one of the only dreams in my life i've had more than one time okay like where i've woken up and it's in the same dream i'm in the same dream and in this dream it's 1940s 1950s but everyone is severely advanced there's flying blimps with like lcd screens on the side of them and everything's bizarre and strange and it stuck with me for whatever obviously this is just a stupid dream but for whatever reason all these years that stuck with me like it takes one man like nikola tesla to have more than a hundred inventions that were patents right i mean he had some pretty great pretty amazing

135:54ideas yes but there was in his day there was very few people like him that was true what if there was a million like what in the end advanced very quickly right but there's not a million elon musks there's one do you think i'm about that please try to not hmm i don't think i don't think you'd necessarily want to be me well what's the worst part about you people would like it that much well most people wouldn't but they can't be you so that's like that's like some superhero type you know you wouldn't want to be spider-man rather just sleep tight in gotham city i hope he's out there doing his job it's very hard to turn it off yeah what's the hardest part it might sound great if it's turned on but what if it doesn't turn off now i showed you the isolation tank and you've never experienced that before yeah i think that could help you turn it off a little bit

137:03just for the night yeah just give you a little bit of sleep a little bit of perspective magnesium that you get from the water as well that makes you makes you sleep easier because the water has epsom salts in it but maybe some sort of strategy for uh sacrificing your biologi or not sacrificing but enhancing your biological recovery time by figuring out a way whether it's through meditation or some other ways to shut off that that thing at night like you must have like a constant stream of ideas that's running through your head all the time you getting text messages from checks no uh i'm getting text messages from from friends saying what the hell are you doing smoking weed is that bad for you it's legal yeah it's kind of unapproved it's not you know uh i'm not a regular smoker of weed how often you smoke it almost never i mean it's it's i don't actually notice any effect

138:12well there you go there was a time where i think it was ramdas or someone gave some buddhist monk a bunch of acid okay and he ate it and it had no effect on him i doubt that i would say that too but i've never meditated to the level that some of these people have where they're constantly meditating all day they don't have any material possessions and all of their energy is spent trying to achieve a certain mindset i would like to cynically deny that i'd like to cynically say they just think the same way i do they just hang out with flip-flops on and make weird noises but maybe no you know i i i know a lot of people like weed and that's fine uh but i don't find that it is very good for productivity for you not for me yeah i mean i would imagine that for someone like you it's not someone like you it would be more like a cup of coffee right you want you have a mate yeah it's more like the

139:15opposite of a cup of coffee like a cup of coffee in reverse oh wheat is yeah no i'm saying you would like more more like what would be beneficial to you would be like coffee i like to get things done i like to be useful that is one of the hardest things to do is to be useful when you say you like to get things done like in terms of like what satisfaction when you complete a project when something something that you invent comes to fruition and you see people enjoying it that feeling yes doing something useful for other people that i like doing that's interesting for other people yes so that do you think that that is maybe the way you recognize that you have this unusual position in the culture where you can uniquely influence certain things because of this i mean you essentially have a gift right i mean you would think it was a curse but i'm sure it's been fueled by

140:17many many years of discipline and learning but you essentially have a gift and that you have this radical sort of creativity engine when it comes to innovation and technology it's like you're just you're going at a very high rpms all the time what is that doesn't stop i don't know what would happen if i got into a sensory deprivation tank let's try it sounds were concerning it's like running the engine with no resistance that's just is that what it is though maybe it's not maybe it's fine i don't know i'll try it i'll try it have you ever experienced experimented with meditation or anything yes what do you do or what have you done rather i mean just sort of sit there and be quiet and then repeat some mantra which acts as a focal point it's distill the mind it distill the mind but i don't find myself drawn to it frequently do you think that perhaps productivity

141:31is maybe more attractive to you than enlightenment and like or even the concept of whatever enlightenment means like what are you trying to achieve when you're meditating all the time with you it seems like almost like there's a franticness to your creativity that comes out of this this burning furnace and for in order for you to like calm that thing down get through you might have to throw too much water on it it's like a never-ending explosion like what is it like i try to explain it to a dumb person like me what's going on never-ending explosion it's just constant ideas just bouncing around yes damn yeah so when everybody leaves it's just elon sitting at home brushing his teeth just bunch ideas bouncing around your head yeah all the time when did you realize that that's not the case with most people i think when i was i don't know five or six or something i thought i was insane

142:44why did you think you were insane because it was clear that other people did not what their mind wasn't exploding with ideas all the time they weren't expressing it they weren't talking about it all and you realized by the time you were five or six like oh they're probably not even getting this thing that i'm getting no it was just strange it was like hmm i'm strange that was my conclusion i'm strange but did you feel diminished by it in any way like knowing that this is a weird thing that you really probably couldn't commiserate with with other people they wouldn't understand i hope they wouldn't find out because they might like put me away with something you thought that for a second yes when you were little yeah i knew they put people away what if they put me away like when you were little you thought this yes wow like you thought this is so radically

143:39different than the people that are around me if they find out i got the stream coming in yeah wow but you know i was only like five or six so like do you think this is like i mean there's there's outliers biologically you mean there's people that are seven foot nine there's people who have giant hands there's people that have eyes that are 2015 vision there's always outliers um do you feel like you like caught this like you've got some you're like on some weird innovation creativity sort of wave that's very unusual like you you tapped into i mean just think of the the various things you've been able to accomplish in a very short amount of time and you're constantly doing this that's a weird you're a weird person right i agree yeah like what if there's a million elon musks well that would be very very weird yeah it'd be pretty weird like right real weird definitely

144:55yeah what if they're a million joe rockets oh there probably is probably two million i mean i think that's the case with a lot of folks i mean but like uh you know my goal is like try to do useful things try to maximize it probably the future is good um make the future exciting something you look forward to you know you know with uh you know with tesla we're like trying to make things that people love you know it's like not i think how many how many things can you buy that you really love that really give you joy so rare so rare i wish there were more things that's what we try to do just make things that somebody loves when you when you think about making things that someone loves like do you specifically think about like what things would improve people's experience like what what would change the way people interface with life that would make them more relaxed or more happy

146:06you really think like when you're thinking about things like that is that like one of your considerations like what what could i do that would help people that maybe they wouldn't be able to figure out yeah like like what are the set of things that can be done to make the future better like you know like so i think that a future where we are space faring civilization and out there among the stars this is very exciting this makes me look forward to the future this makes me want that future you know the things they need to be things that make you look forward to waking up in the morning you wake up in the morning look forward to the day look forward to the future in a future where we are space-faring civilization and out there among the stars i think that's very exciting that is a thing we want whereas if if you knew we would not be a spacefaring civilization but forever

147:04confined to earth this would not be a good future that would be very sad i think it would be so sad future of the the just the the finite lifespan of the earth itself and the solar system itself that even though it's possibly you know i mean how many how long do they feel like this sun and the solar system is going to exist how many hundreds of millions of years well it's probably if you're saying the when does the sun boil the oceans right about 500 million years so is is it sad that we never leave because in 500 million years that happens is that what you're saying no i just think like if there are two futurists and one futurist we're out there among the stars and the things we read about and see in science fiction movies the good ones are true we have these starships and we're we we're going to see what other planets are like and we're a multi-planet species and the scope and scale of

148:07consciousness is expanded across many civilizations and many planets and many star systems this is a great future this is a wonderful thing to me and that's what we should strive for hmm but that's biological travel that's cells traveling physically to another location yes do you think that's definitely where we're going no yeah i don't think so either i used to think so and now i'm thinking more likely less than ever like almost every day less likely we can definitely go to the moon and mars yeah everything we will go to the asteroid belt and we can go to the moons of jupiter saturn you can even get to pluto that'd be the craziest place ever if we colonized mars and re-terraformed it and turned it into like a big jamaica just i think i think turn the whole thing into cancun well i mean over time it wouldn't be easy but yes right you could just you could warm it up yeah you can warm

149:20it up you could add air you get some water there i mean over time hundreds of millions of years or whatever it takes it could be a multi-planet species that would be amazing the multi-planet species that's what's ultimately like air conditioning saturn i'm pro-human me too yeah i love humanity i think it's great we're glad as a robot that you love humans because we we love you too and we don't want you to kill us and eat us and uh i mean you know strangely i think a lot of people don't like humanity and see it as a blight but i do not well i think one of those i think part of that is just they've been you know they've been struggling when people struggle they associate their struggle with other people they never internalize their problems they look to other people as holding them back and people suck and people and it's just it you know it's an evil never-ending cycle

150:14but not always again most people are really good most people vast majority this may sound corny it does sound cool but love is the answer it is the answer yep yeah it is it sounds corny because we're all scared you know we're all scared of trying to love people being rejected or someone taking advantage of you because you're trying to be loving sure but if we all could just relax and love each other wouldn't hurt to have more love in the world it definitely wouldn't hurt yeah it'd be great yeah we should do that yeah i agree man really how do you fix that you have a love machine no but uh probably spend more time with your friends in less time on social media now deleting social media from your applications from your phones and that give you uh 10 boost of happiness was what do you think the percentages i think probably something like that yeah good 10

151:22yeah i mean i mean the only thing i've kept is twitter because i kind of like need some means of getting a message out you know right that's about it so far so good well what's interesting with you you actually occasionally engage with people on twitter yeah it's what percentage of that is a good idea good question right it's hard it's mostly i think it's unbalanced more good than bad but there's definitely some bad so do you ever hopefully the good outweighs the bad do you ever think about how odd it is the weird feeling that you get when someone says something shitty to you on twitter and you read it the weird feeling this weird little negative jolt it's like a subjective negative jolt of energy that you don't really need to absorb but you do anyway like well this guy him i mean there's a lot of negativity on twitter it is but it's a weird it's in in its

152:34form like the way if you ingest it as if you're like you try to be like a little scientist as you're ingesting it you're like well how weird is this and i'm even getting upset at some strange person saying something mean to me it's not even accurate i mean the there are a vast number of negative comments uh so the vast for the vast majority of i just ignore them the vast majority yeah but every now and again you get drawn in it's not good it's not good make mistakes yes you can make mistakes you can make some mistakes we're all human we can make mistakes yeah it's hard and people love it when you say something and you take it back they're like you we saved it forever screenshot that you had that thought you had that thought like well i deleted it not good enough you had the thought i'm better than you i never had that thought you had that thought you piece of look i saved it

153:34i put it on my blog yeah i'm not sure why people think that that anyone would think that deleting a tweet makes it go away it's like hello been the internet for a while yeah well it's even like the thing is they don't want you to be able to delete it because the problem is if you don't delete it and you don't believe it anymore it's really hard to say hey that thing above i don't really believe that anymore i change the way i the way i view things yes because people go well you all right i have that over there i'm gonna just take that i'm not gonna pay attention that you wrote it's on your permanent record it's forever bro we'll put this on your permanent record yeah it's like a tattoo you keep it oh yeah yeah well it's it's this thing where there's it's it's a there's a lack of compassion it's a lack of compassion issue people just like intentionally shitty to

154:24each other all the time online and trying to catch me it's they're more trying to catch people doing something that's arrestable like a cop trying to like get you know arrests on his his record it's like they're trying to catch you with something more than they're logically looking at it thinking it's a bad thing that you've done or that it's an idea they don't agree with so much they need to insult you trying to catch you yeah i i mean it's way easier to be mean on social media than it is to be mean in person yes way easier yeah yes it's weird it's it's not a normal way of human interacting it's cheating we're not supposed to be able to interact so easily but people are not looking at yes you would never do that you'd never be so mean to somebody looking in their eyes and if you did you'd feel like most people yeah unless your sociopath you'd feel terrible yes

155:19elon musk this has been a pleasure yeah likewise it really has been it's been an honor thank you for having me um thanks for doing this because uh i know you don't do a lot of uh long-form stuff like this i hope i didn't weird you out and i hope you don't get mad that you smoke weed i mean not bad it's legal we're in california this is just as legal as this whiskey we've been drinking exactly this is all good right cheers thank you um is there any message you would like to put out other than love is the answer because i think you really nailed it with that no i think you know i think people should be nicer to each other and give people and give give more credit to others and don't assume that they're mean until you know they're actually mean you know just it's easy to demonize people you're usually wrong about it people are nicer than you think give people more credit i couldn't agree

156:22more and i want to thank you not just for all the crazy innovations you've come up with and your constant flow of ideas but that you choose to spread that idea which is it's uh it's very vulnerable but it's very honest and i it resonates with me and i believe it i believe it's true too so thank you and all you out there be nice be nice all right thank you everybody thank you very much thank you good night everybody