Moment 84 - VP Of META Explains How To Get Exactly What You Want: Nicola Mendelsohn

00:02I want to get some advice from you about work. I know most people listening to this will really be in awe of the career you've had and trying to take some actionable, more actionable advice from this conversation as to how they can have a similar career, how they can be successful in whatever endeavor they're pursuing. When I was thinking about some of the advice you've given previously one of the points you'd said is about really understanding your core strength and your core skills why does that matter and how does one do that and what does it mean to understand your core skills and strengths i think it's about understanding what what you enjoy i think it starts there and then whether you're playing what you're intrinsically good at in with those areas as well because actually sometimes people are good at things but don't enjoy it and so ultimately that will not make you as fulfilled or as happy as you can be.

00:59Often you're not the best judge of yourself. And so finding people around you, either family and friends, but actually also work colleagues that can start to say, what is it about me that's good? What is it about me that maybe isn't so good? Help me understand those things better. And then you start to create a stronger version of yourself or vision of yourself that you can then work through. I've always through my career I had my own sort of board of advisors.

01:29It's an informal thing. When I'm doing different things where I need a different point of view or perspective, I'll put people around me and ask them for advice, mentors, sponsors, you know, fashionable words that get used. But it's really people that perhaps are a couple of years ahead of you or older that kind of done these things before to learn from and to be inspired by and to change them around as well. I think those things help. What are your core skills and strengths?

02:00Others will say, but I think it's around that I start, that I lead with empathy and that it really matters to me to understand who the people are that I'm working with and what motivates them and what doesn't. And to have a different style that can work with each of them to motivate them to be the very best that they can be. I'm always looking to understand that. I think I set pretty clear deliverables and expectations. And I really spend the time with my core team. I absolutely believe in the frequency of a regular one-to-one meeting where we can learn, you know, to get those constant updates where I can give advice. But I've always got the clear North Star. I've always got written what I think the deliverables will be. I'm not afraid to pivot and to change my mind. If I see evidence and data, There's a poster at Wall, data wins arguments.

02:54I like that because I think it's true that you can really look at something and know. And then if something isn't going well, to stop it and to have the humility to say, we tried something, it didn't work. And then to be able to move forwards and to role model that as well and not to be afraid to say, I did that and it didn't go so well. Let's now go and do, let's go and do something else. There's a few of the things. Others will add other things, I'm sure.

03:18Also, you know, to have some fun along the way. I think that's really important. I think when I first started work, there was this thing about work's really serious, and it is serious, and it matters. But you spend your most amount of time with the people that you work with. And one of my other favourite posters is that meetings are made for laughter. And so sometimes if you can just take the tension out and just break it a little bit, I think that's something that's important as well. I've heard you give the advice that it's important to bring your whole self to work as well um I think that is some type that is also kind of counter-narrative in the sense that people think they should just bring their professional self to work or their boss self to work why is it important to bring your whole self to work because if you're trying to be you know other things you'll just not do a very good job and if people don't know what else is going on in your life I mean look at all the things that we've talked about today if people didn't know I had you know I was dealing with health issues at different times and maybe my performance wasn't so good at that time then I'm going to be judged unfairly for where I am in that time as opposed to let's just have an honest

04:24conversation I'm old enough now I'm 50 but I remember some of the days of the women that came before that would leave a handbag and a coat on the back of a chair to pretend they were still in the office when actually they popped out to go and pick up the children or do something but were scared to show that because it was a sign of weakness if you were actually being a mom. I mean, it sounds ridiculous, but there are still companies where that sort of behavior is happening. And so the fact that we can be in 2022 and it's still taboo to talk about a disease that you have, or it still can be in certain companies taboo to talk about the fact that maybe your parent isn't well or your child isn't. I mean, that's crazy. So allowing the space and the culture within companies to to be who you are and to know the things that matter to you ultimately allows people to be higher performers which ultimately means that they'll do better in their jobs and they'll be happier in their lives and do you think that's there's a real responsibility for the leaders at the top of the organization to to lead by example yeah i absolutely do and again here's where the data wins arguments because if you have more diverse boards at the tops of companies you have

05:32more successful companies and I do think there's an element where you bring where you don't have groupthink and you have different people around the table it brings in some of these these types of ways of being and ways that form a culture culture is formed top down and bottom up but so much of it is from the cues of the leaders at the top as well so showing that vulnerability being so open um bringing your whole self allows other people to do so as well and your career is um um real a real testament to this next piece of advice which is um about asking for what you want people don't do that either because people think they should take what they're given but having the i don't want to use the word courage but because it doesn't seem like quite the right word but asking for what you want is scary for a lot of people and it there's a lot of threat and risk associated with that how has that been important in your career yeah i think it is but i think it's also about doing your homework, knowing what matters to you, knowing what's important, questioning if these are the things that matter to you and these are the opportunities that you want. This is this pay rise that you think you should have. I mean, my first couple of pay rises,

06:48I just said, thanks, that's great. I mean, that's terrible, right? I had absolutely no idea of what my own worth was. And so I just said, thank you. I never went in in those early pay rise conversations, once a year reviews to think about, was I happy on the accounts that I was on? I just said, thanks. I would not give that advice to anybody. I just wouldn't. I think that's a terrible thing to do. I think you should know those things. And then the onus is on you to make sure you do the homework on your career because nobody else is going to do that.

07:24and also to not assume that people know what you want either because sometimes you do know what you want and you're sat there going, I hope they're going to suggest it and not to say it. People don't do that because they are scared. And again, I go, what's the worst that can happen? You can ask for it and they'll say no. And then you've got a judgment call. Do I want to stay in a place that said no or are they giving me a trajectory for what I need to do in order to get there?

07:48Or actually, is this a wake-up call to say, actually, maybe I should look at something different? What do you wish you'd said in those pay rise conversations? Not just thank you, but I've been out and I've looked at the market and I understand now that my value is this. And these are all the things that I've done that I'm really proud of and that I've been successful. And these were the KPIs that I think that you set me. And thus, this is what the equation should be.

08:13And then probably there'd be a bit of a negotiation, but at least I'd be in with the start, right? Whereas I was just like, thanks. What if your boss turns around and goes, you're out of your mind, get out of here, Nicola? Then I think you have to go, why do you think that? Because if you have the data to say, well, other places don't feel that. And here's all the reasons why I feel passionate and proud of what I'm doing. Show me the path that gets me there. And so if it's a yearly pay conversation, maybe look to see if you could do something in six months or set out other criteria in terms of what matters and what's important. A quote from you, the times I've grown the most have been the times where I felt most nervous, the times that I thought I was, I wasn't going to be able to do it.

08:56Those growth moments throughout your career where you felt most nervous? Yeah, I think, well, we've talked about them. The first, each of the first of the jobs, I think were definitely. Another one was when I took on my first position, if you like, in the industry, which was when I was asked to be the president of WACL in the UK, which is the women in Advertising Communications of London Club. It's a 100-year-old networking club for women in the industry that's gone through its own metamorphosis.

09:26And so suddenly I'd gone from being Nicola just in an agency to having this position across the industry to inspire women, to bring women together and to chart what it means to be part of a women's club in this era and what needs there might be. And so, yeah, I practiced, I prepped, I really thought long and hard. A lot of the things that we talked about, I went and met all the past presidents. I got the advice from them as to what they wanted. I talked to existing members what they wanted.

09:56So I really did my homework so that when I came to that moment of setting out my vision for the year as to what I was going to do, I felt prepped. I was still nervous. It's good to have those nerves, right? But yeah, do the prep and I think it helps. Those nerves, a lot of people, they tell themselves a story about those nerves. The story being, I'm an imposter. and I imposter syndrome seems to be such a frequently asked question of me and from this audience is like how do you deal with that people think I think they think that imposter that feeling of nerves which is that I think that they're reading into feeling like an imposter is signed to retreat and to get back into comfort get back into certainty no for me it's it's a rush of adrenaline it's the it's the moment before you do something to go all right you've done the prep you've got this. It's good just to kind of get ready. It's like a getting ready moment and then you go. And then it kind of helps. It helps you go there. Because I think if perhaps it doesn't happen, then maybe you're not going to be on your A game. And maybe that's not a good thing.