Ari Shaffir (Part 2)
Guests: Ari Shaffir
Full transcript · Read the full conversation in order, with its original context.
§01文字稿 · 00:00 起
and we're back to wrap it up we just stepped outside sacrificed the sacred plant to the fire gods uh-huh and you try to just put brian in a better state of mind i think you feel like a lot of people are attacking you and um i get i get attacked a lot nowadays. I know you do. We talked about that earlier, but we're not attacking you. And one of the things that I think that's real important that I brought up earlier is be generous to a point where it's indefensible. Be generous to a point where, you know, people know that what you're doing is you're doing it all for the right reasons. I think if you're a listener, you know that already, what I do for comedy. And that was the one thing I started screaming at Duncan was like, you don't understand how much I do for comics. My free time is devoted to 100% of doing shit for free for other comics. Now, if they don't see that... I would tell you this, though,
but there's a lot of clubs over the years that have had this theory that, well, you're lucky to be getting the stage time. And a part of comedians, we don't respect ourselves, so we're like, absolutely, you're absolutely right. But that other part is like, fuck. Yeah, but I'm also not driving to Pasadena fucking editing audio software for you. I'm not fucking doing all this shit. That's not the same as saying, like, yeah, you should be happy to be in this room. Listen, bro, what you're doing is... You know what I mean? Listen, this is what you're doing. You set up a beautiful thing. That ain't bad. There's nothing wrong with it. And when I ask you about how many shows you want, just to sort of illuminate people as to what you're doing. I like what you're doing. I like a lot of shows that come out of what you're doing. But I think that we have to always be very careful
that if there's any money that's ever taking place in any sort of a thing where you're selling comedy, comedians get super defensive and super sensitive when you're selling a show and the comics are going to go up and do their stand-up and they're not going to get compensated from it, but yet they know that money is exchanging hands. If it was a show that people didn't use as a workout room for the most part, these are people that are just fucking around, not actually like I'm selling. And plus the fact that there's seven or eight people usually on each one of these shows, I think it's a little different than if I were like, hey, me, Ari, and you are doing a show at the Hollywood Improv. It scales. Well, you wouldn't get to do that. First of all, the reason why you get to control this money at all is because I gave it to you. Because I'm not paying you to rent that place out.
And since then, I'm like, look, I'll give you all my money from my shows. So the shows will sell out. For the shows you do, yes. The shows I do are 90% of the shows that go on there. Well, I do them every week. You say you're not there every week. Okay, let's not say 90. It's more than half. More than half. And it's more than pays the rent. The idea being that I think when a comic knows that you're, even if you're only making $150 to a comic, that's like, why doesn't he make 50 and give us 50? That's how they think. You're selling stand-up comedy. This is why the fact that you guys are doing all this to me, I'm like, bottom line, each one of these shows for going in there and being there for five hours, for going in there and putting together all these comics, putting up advertising and making posters for it, all this shit, all this shit, if it's not worth $150, if it's not worth worth $150, and I'm not doing it.
If I'm getting this much trouble for $150, fuck it then. I'm not doing it anymore. Hold on, hold on. At $15 a ticket, $150, even at 60%, that's 20 tickets. I'm saying the average after-tax that I get after paying the host in comics or whatever is usually about $150. Well, look, if you're spending money paying the comics, and you feel good about that, and you could sit down with them and say, look, I'm paying you. Because you know what? The only reason what it is, it's whoever you heard it from or whatever whispers you heard it from. And Duncan, for some reason, who's been on one show, I think. We've got to pay the comedy store $15. Yeah, but Duncan's been on one show, I think. We like it. We like the $15 we get at the comedy store. Right. Yeah. It's just like, oh, cool. It's something nominal to say. I get it. You want it. I get it, man. I get it. But I'm just saying that after that. I know what you're saying.
You're saying that you... It's not worth it to me. I don't give a shit. You're saying you're doing a good thing by creating this spot for them to warm up, and they don't appreciate that. And that if you're not at least getting something out of it, like $150, you're not going to do it. Or just doing it. Honestly, you know how hard it is devoting almost every Friday to being somewhere, and on fact of that, being on there for five or six hours? That's called a job. I completely understand that. On the worst night ever. But to comedians, they're also doing a job too. And they're also selling something valuable, their work and their material. And they know that even if you are putting together a promotion, the promoter shouldn't be the only one that's getting money out of it. No, and they don't. Well, we need to work that out. That should be an indefensible position. No, you know what it should be?
It should be each one of the comics that come on it either goes, hey, can I get $20? I'm like, okay. They're not going to do that. Well, you want them to ask for money? No, no. If you are somebody that are like, no, I think I need to be paid. I think I need to deserve it. That's the wrong way to say this. Yeah, but compared to me, I will do almost any show for free. I never care about fucking money at all. Okay, Brian, but you're fair. But then you're saying, I need to get this $150. What's that? Hold on. Just so you know, $30 to an MC is 20 paid tickets after taxes. I get it. But for comedy, I don't want to get paid for the most part. I don't think that I need to get it. I have fun. So then why don't you give out this money to people? Huh? Why don't you give out this money to people? Because I'm giving 20 bucks a piece. Give them 40 bucks a piece. That's what I do. But you haven't. No, you haven't. Yes, I have.
I haven't gotten that since the first time we did that show. Why do you think that? But that was what you were saying. You said you only paid the hosts. No, I pay the post in any comics that I know. Like Esther. How many people have asked for money? Okay, but just because they're poor doesn't mean there's less or more deserving of that money. If I do a spot for 15 minutes, I don't care if you do a spot for 15 minutes too, Joe. I don't deserve that more or less than him. No one. The only time I really ever pay somebody is if I know for these shows. If I know this person would appreciate it. You know, like, dude, thank you so much, man. You know, I fucking have no money and stuff like that. But when it's somebody that's pretty comfortable, like I feel like I'm very average-paced. Like if it's something like me because it's very comfortable, I don't want you to pay me, and I'm not doing it for money.
That's your decision. And this show has always been like when, hey, I got this room in the ice house. You want to do it? It's like a workout room. Totally. I consider this more like, do you want to come to a really good audience at a workout room? Yeah. Well, then here's what you should do. Not a show. Charge no cover. Tell the ice house, hey, give me $150. I'll pack this place. Charge no cover. and there's no problem. Absolutely. That's a great idea. Terrible idea. No. Great idea. Because you know why? I take my story teller show, I take that and give it to charity. I'm not in it for money. I charge five bucks and I keep it as low as possible. Anybody who asks for a comp, I give it to them and I still give the rest to charity because I don't want the responsibility. Somebody else can completely do the desk watch show there. Brian, it's very difficult to say you're not in it for money and then say you need
§02文字稿 · 07:05 起
a certain amount of money or you won't do it. Because in my opinion, if I had to be asked, hey, every Friday, The work you put into it. Yeah. If you have to go here, you have to sit here and record work. And then those podcasts usually go from like three to five hours. Well, not the podcasts because some people don't. Oh, those podcasts. I think the move is to put it all in the hands of the Ice House. Give the Ice House the contact numbers for all the people that want to be on the show. Well, that's what I do. That's what I do. Have them pay it. That's what I do whenever I don't want to do it. They pay their headliners $100, those Ice House people. Do they really? Well, it's always a thing. $100 for headliners except for when you or Gabriel would come in. They're not doing that well. They have to pay the staff. They have to. It's true. That place especially has got so much history behind it.
That place has been around for 50 plus years. It's such a great place. But I think that we've got to be real considerate of comics and the fact that comics have a legitimate gripe when it comes to worrying about someone making money. I mean, it has to be explained, I think, in a thoughtful manner and not in this knee-jerk sort of angry, yelly, sort of shouty type of way. Life in front of other people when you don't even come to me and talk to me. I thought we were friends. Fuck you, Duncan Trussell. Oh, come on, man. See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Fuck Duncan Trussell. Stop, man. Stop. Look, this is this kind of... Why? Because he told you on a podcast. Because he's... You know what? I'm just done. I've done so much for that dude and he just pretty much attacked me. I was like, fuck him. Well, you know what? If he had no point, no place to stand, if he had no... with a pencil on a plane. If he had no point,
if he had no place to talk to you about this, there was no argument there, then it would be, it would have no impact. The reason why it has somewhat of an impact is because it is an arguable position. Is there ever a way to talk about it where someone says, let's just say this argument, say, hey, so-and-so, you should pay this much money to so-and-so. And instead of going like, what the fuck, I do this and this, instead of going like, well, hmm, let me think about that. Why should I or shouldn't I pay this person this much money or less money or more money and just have a nice conversation about it? Yeah. That's why I don't think it's worth it to me. Well, I think you took on a job and you didn't quite know how much time it was going to take. I did just to go on stage. It's a lot of effort. Let them go on stage when they want to. Just to call the people and schedule the times and have them come in. How many $15 thoughts?
I went from going to doing open mics with a lot of these people that I have on these shows or just going to different clubs and doing stage time and never doing real shows with these people. you know so when i put decided to take on this crazy shit it was more like hey i got this access to this room i can make a show and we can get all together and we could have a show once a week it would be cool right and it was never as a financial decision never just for fun absolutely the real problem one of the things we were talking about when we had this conversation with madrigal and you and they're at the ice house those nights were like one of the things we're all saying is like and we'll just take the money not not them we will it'll be us but how How many tickets would you have to sell to get $150 at $15 a piece? Average, I think that thing holds $75 or something like that.
Sometimes they stuff in a lot. So 10 people and you only get – you take taxes out of that, so you only get 60% of that. Huh? I'm trying to think how many tickets you would have to sell to go over that $150 mark that you normally need. I have no idea. I don't know. I don't get 100% of the door. You get 60% of the door. I think so, something like that. Dude, I don't want to talk about any of this shit anyway because – Well, I think I made a mistake. You literally don't want to talk about it. I made a mistake as well, and I just handed it over to you. Because the first couple of shows, I was getting paid for it. But when I just handed it over to you, I should have said, let's sit down and figure out where this should go. And that we should have the rent paid for and the insurance. You know what? To me, it's not even worth it to me. I'll go somewhere else once a week and do comedy somewhere else
and enjoy myself and not get paid for it and just have fun. And the last thing I'm going to do is, like, thank you so much for letting me have this stage time. Fucking, you should pay me. What the fuck? I might talk about no no that's not the way people are saying it they're saying Brian's gonna be one of those guys that's not paying comedians yeah but it just feels like that because you feel attacked all the time you can't have a regular conversation I am attacked have you not been looking at Twitter I'm getting attacked by fucking Jay Moore I'm getting attacked by Duncan Trussell I'm getting attacked by fucking just block Jay Moore on Twitter and it's never a problem I'm getting attacked by everybody what does that mean attacked what does that even mean not exactly what does that mean they're saying a thing they don't like about something you do I'm going to fucking do this to you I'm going to do that to you
there's a path with least resistance out there I know it it's called not bringing it up on a podcast and getting into it so everyone knows about this and thanks a lot guys what are you talking about Ryan what are you talking about man you make it impossible to talk to you about anything when you react this way turn this into some crazy situation that it's not I can understand you don't want to book a comedy show I can understand it being a tremendous time consuming thing I don't want to well listen let's all talk about this and figure out a way where we can have a show that the ice house books let's they're professionals that's what they do you know what i'm gonna do is i'm doing ice house chronicles and uh i will make it just you know some other thing i'll make it just like a green room while somebody else can do the room and have i'll have nothing to do with that
room so brian just so you know this reaction we're getting from you is the normal reaction we get from you when we bring something up so does that make it more likely for us to bring things up to you or less likely? No, no, I tell you why. Because honestly, I am so fucking busy that I don't even need to deal with any of this. You know, I would rather just do this podcast, be happy, do everyone else's podcast, be happy, and not have something that's such a big deal that I thought was just helping friends out. I think you got a good point. I think you got a good point in that. I think it is a lot more responsibility and a little extra thing that you have to chew on every week. And I think it can still be done and done through the Ice House. This way, the Ice House pays people and we'll set aside a chunk of it so you can get paid for running the Ice House Chronicles while the show's going on. Plus pay the guy.
You can still pay the guy $40. You know what? Or I can just do the exact same thing I was doing and any comic that wants to get paid, I'll give them money. Oh, man. You can't ask people to ask for money. No, I don't. You know what I do? Half the time I go, hey, you want some cash? And then they go, no, dude. And I'm like, okay. Okay. Well, those people. How many times did that happen? Cool. a lot more than you would think, Ari. Well, I've never done that to me. I've got to get out of here. You've never offered me money that I've turned out. It's not stupid. People are talking about it. You don't want to become one of those guys. It doesn't pay people. I don't even feel like talking about it. I know you don't. That's why it's hard to bring up. That's why saying I'd like to get paid is a hard thing to bring up. I don't like talking about it. It isn't boring. To me, podcasts should be entertaining,
§03文字稿 · 13:50 起
not like, hey, let's bust open Brian and fucking see why he's thinking about financial shit. No one's trying to bust you open. Open on a podcast. if we were at a fucking restaurant we could talk about all this I don't feel like dealing about this on a podcast sorry let's talk about your fucking paychecks it's very understandable Brian but do you understand that you get into this really angry defensive position with people that aren't even attacking you okay do you understand that you do that sometimes listen man it's avoidable sometimes you can talk in a rational tone I've been guilty of it as well All the drama that's happening in your life is easily avoidable. There's fights to the death with like seven people right now. You don't need all that. Brian, what you're doing is a great thing. What you're doing with your podcast network for those guys, they should be happy. Those Chronicle shows are great.
I'll drive out there just to do it. Yeah, and what you said about like Freddie Lockhart, like needing the network to get him on, that is true. It is all true. Should they lead with you every time? Say, hey, just so you know, you do a lot of great things for me, but I'd like to bring up this one thing. Would that help? If you guys don't think that what I do helps comedy or helps comics. It does. You're reading any negative comment as you must hate everything about it. If you think there's a better Death Squad idea, I would gladly change the name of Death Squad to something just to make you happy. You could do whatever. It's not even that. Death Squad is you. You're a part of Death Squad. You know, all of our friends are part of Death Squad. The fact that you and Duncan don't talk right now is disgusting. You know what? And that's called trimming fat. He's done a few things in the past that I've let go.
and you know what? I don't need that guy. I've helped that dude so many times and I've been on his podcast once. Well, listen, Duncan is no perfect person, but I love that guy to death. I'm no perfect person either and neither are you. I think we can avoid these kind of conversations in the future if we just calm down a little bit, man. And what I said about being inarguably generous. You don't have to be inarguably generous. You can have a straight deal with people. You don't have to say, I'm going to give you all my profits. I'm not saying all the profits. I'm saying just completely reasonable. Why are we talking about this on a podcast? That's what I'm talking about. We should be talking about fucking farts in Olive Garden. We don't have to talk about only farts in Olive Garden, Brian. There's nothing wrong with it. This is a good conversation for all of us.
It's a good conversation for me to understand that sometimes you don't feel like you're getting enough credit for all the work you're doing for all those guys that are on your network. You've built this platform where a lot of people find you, find people because of that platform you've built up. And I've been very supportive of it, Brian, and I've been trying to help it. I talk about it all the time on this podcast and tell people to subscribe to it. And I tell people to subscribe to it on Twitter. And it's the only way to get it. The Ice House Chronicles is to go through Death Squad. No one's trying to stop it. It doesn't mean everything you've ever done with it is completely the right way to go. You have to be able to bring up something in order to get better. Yeah, we're not trying to stop anything. We're just talking. The Ice House thing can all be worked out.
And I think it's a huge burden on your back, too, financially when it comes to figuring out who gets paid and taking taxes out and shit. It's just not worth it. That's not worth it. I just wanted to do comedy. Yeah. Well, we can still... I'll tell you what you avoid. If you slap everybody 10 bucks, then they'll feel a lot more appreciated. You know what? I just need an employee to go and actually do that for me. All right. We'll talk about this after the podcast. We need to hire you an assistant. So let's get going with that. That Asian guy, what does he do? That guy, he's gone with the wind. Dust in the wind. All we are is dust in the wind. I'm sorry if this was uncomfortable, ladies and gentlemen. Very uncomfortable. but unnecessarily uncomfortable. It didn't have to be. And Brian needs to know that we all love him and he's doing a good thing. I think that's what it is.
You don't realize that people still like you if they mention any sort of critique. But they still do like you. Last thoughts, Brian? Please be positive. Last thoughts, Brian? Fuck Duncan Trussell. Oh, come on. How dare you? After all that, you go to fuck Duncan Trussell? Yep. Come on. Let's think of something positive. How to end this positive? Go buy Ari's shirt. It's awesome. It's not for sale yet. Oh, yeah. In two weeks or something like that. Surmise this, Brian. Wrap it up. Bring it all home. Bring it all home in a positive way. The fans know. No, it's not a contest. There's no fight. Don't make fights. Yeah, what do you mean the fans know? They know how much Ari worked for you guys. They know how much you worked for us, guys? You're an interesting guy, Brian. They know. They know the time I put in doing all this shit. Yeah, everybody knows the time you put into it. Brian, it's not bad.
Right, so you wouldn't say I'm stealing from comics, would you? Brian, I've never said you're stealing from comics. I know you did because you did. When Duncan said that, he was out of line. And he was upset at you because he was making an argument about South by Southwest. And he didn't feel that you should have been interjecting what you were saying. when his whole argument was about they offered him to come out there and not pay him. It's a silly emotional thing between two guys that got dragged out in a public way that was unfortunate and unnecessary. He shouldn't have done that. You acted in a very angry and fucking violent way, and I had to actually separate the two of you guys. I mean, the whole thing was crazy. No, you didn't. I was trying to leave the room, and you wouldn't let me leave the room. What are you talking about? You were pushing towards him.
No, I was screaming at him with my finger pointed towards his direction. You were moving towards him to the point where I had to stop you. What am I going to do? I don't know if you're going to do anything. I didn't think you were going to do anything. Exactly. But you were so mad. I was mad. All right. And that's why I say. Why are we so mad? Don't trust him. Brian. And just be like, nah, you're wrong. Brian, you know we love you, right? Yeah. Do you know we love you? Yep. I think sometimes you don't, Brian. We really do appreciate the work you do. We can't do a lot of shit without you. If we give you a big hug right now, are you going to feel better? No. No, he's going to feel way more uncomfortable. No big hugs? No. All right, we'll see you tomorrow. Brian Callen tomorrow.