JRE MMA Show #42 with Teddy Atlas

00:01four three two one and we're live tell you Atlas thanks for being here man I really appreciate it I'm a minute late am I keep saying that stop make you guys listen get anyone out there mad at you no one's mad at anything there's no real set time you know I can't I got to tell you since I announced you're gonna be on the podcast I had about a hundred people tell me to get you mad they want you to rant get screwed we're firemen speech you gave to Tim Bradley everybody wants you to start screaming to get mad you get your people hyped up well hopefully if there's only an occasion for it and I don't think there'll be an occasion um I I'm looking at this stuff here you got a nice place here by the way thank you and it's making me think about the Denzel Washington movie the equalizer the first one where it was in with those Russian guys they were like messed up guys and

00:56he was trying to protect that girl and he he started pointing there was skulls and stuff at the guys desk you know yeah he was pointing this stuff he was trying to explain to the guy listen let this girl go you know I'll give you $9,000 whatever was let her go she was like 15 years old and um he he didn't want to listen to him and so he started the had stuff like this with this skull I don't know if the people could see it right but um and he saw the pointing it towards him and I think I didn't like take the hint you know the guy and a couple minutes lady he killed everybody in a room but it's just it looks exactly like the thing from that movie to Denzel Washington where he he also had guns and series right there there's Jamie pulled the scene oh really yeah I never saw that movie yeah so you see like he starts pointing they might have taken this from here I mean they

01:56could have gotten it from us from Mexico the props so they pointed he pointed at all towards the guy to kind of warn a guy what was coming next but then so that movie is probably the only good movie that ever came out of a terrible TV series remember the TV series equalizer mmm I remember the name but I don't know that I ever really watched it it was a fat sloppy white guy driving a Jaguar that supposedly kicked everybody's ass and you'd watch it you know get the out of here with this movie no I didn't watch it I heard a TV show it was a dumb TV show that didn't make any sense and when they turned it into a movie and at Denzel Washington in it I'm like how is this possible I'm gonna be thinking is he freaking out not really but like I just thinking about that so listen man you were you just came back from the canal Oh triple G fight which was a phenomenal fight

02:54that was a phenomenal fight I really enjoyed that for I think people exaggerate how good fights are nowadays like if they're around everything's great yeah I think everything is for picture has one good year baseball he's great he's like the next Santa Koufax like people don't wait to see and and truly graded uh against things that were out of their era because you know we're human like hey I was there I reported on it it's the greatest fight ever no no but that's what they do I think it was a really good fight yeah but everything is relative you know and it depends on everything is influenced the judgment of people is influenced at least I see it in my view for whatever that's worth by what's around and how hungry they are like everybody bought the Pacquiao Mayweather first fight because the fans were hungry their imagination was like there's no good fights right there's gonna be a good

03:58fight so there they were anticipating it so you got him at the right time if it was the 80s and you had Lennon Duran Pernell Whitaker Hagler Hagler you know you had um Hearns I mean you had all these great fight Aaron Pryor you had all these guys fighting each other you probably couldn't have pulled off the the Mayweather Pacquiao thing that you pulled off and it turned out to be you know a bit of I don't want to say scam but it definitely was what it lived up to be wasn't that because back yoke in to the fight injured I don't believe it I never saw any listener I must say you need to have an injury but you you're in a tough position you you wouldn't Taekwondo and all that kind of fighting stuff and MMA and whatever part of it I'm probably not given it the proper understanding of what it was and and exactly what part of the fighting not just MMA I'm being too

04:58broad but I know you did Taekwondo you did kickboxing I know that you're you're a national champion when you were young somebody show me something about it so you you do things when you're injured I mean like when are you not injured if you're if you're a football player if you're a fighter if you're in the contact but tell me when you're not injured like when there's not someone so I'd never saw proof during that bout I was there covering it for years BN I never saw proof where he went store or he didn't throw that hand or he threw it in a in a poor way or in in a less than high-level way I I never saw that so listen I'm not in his body you know and and I'm not a mind-reader but I I didn't see it but what I did see I saw him in his trainer in the runway was more telling to me taking selfies because they had got paid a few extra dollars to promote some kind of product where the

06:01selfies were attached to it so I saw that to me that was more debilitating to see a guy before the biggest fight of his life where people were going crazy and and gonna break the pay-per-view record and paying $100 for the freaking thing and to see him taking a selfie when the mentality should be in a different place and normally is in a different place before you're about to walk that hundred yards to the ring where you might not come out of there it's always possible you have to have that mentality I thought that was more debilitating than anything I saw physically with what was supposed to be an arm injury so to me to me maybe I know if it's fair to say was a money grab but obviously it was a bit of a money grab they were beyond themselves you know one guy was retired he came back for it they were beyond the peak of their abilities in their career and I just I just didn't see I didn't

07:03see that fight the purpose to it well it happened about five six years late yeah yeah I just I mean what what yeah I have anyone who gets in a ring they deserve to make as much money as they can I never I never say that a fighter got overpaid never I don't care I never say that because I understand what it took to get to that point and but you know you can you can play with things and you know you can you can kind of lead people to things and again where we started with this conversation you know it's the time you around the environment what's not around not just what's around but what's not around right you know not that many great fights to be made right now yeah so what a triple G Canelo fight is important because there's not a lot of guys waiting in the wings it's not like the old days of the 1980s of the glory days of the welterweight and middleweight division no it's not and

08:11the people you know they have a thirst if you will to see something that the PR department can bring it can use the right material because there hasn't been fighters that obviously on marquee fighters with a name that they can build it and get the imagination of the people to say this is gonna be a great one so when they see it and they pay $100 on $85 or $95 whatever the heck they're playing for the fight and then it's a good fight well it becomes a great fight because of all those elements because you know it's doing your time you saw it you committed to it you sacrifice to pay that you sacrifice a fly there and yeah a really good fight becomes a great card yeah yeah and and I don't think we separate that in our minds I don't think hey who says we have to because right it's about enjoyment so if that if that makes people happy hey that's part of that's part of what

09:19goes into the mix of entertainment but I didn't see it when I try to separate that being in the business I didn't see it as you know the thrill in Manila I I saw it as a really good solid fight and they once again unfortunately took away from it would controversy with the decision did you think they'd just say I thought the first decision was terrible I thought triple G clearly won the fight I thought the second decision was arguable I sound like this is this looks like a draw to me it was an amazing fight I mean I got be honest because I mean that's what you're supposed to be and who do you think won I had 117 112 and a lot of people gonna say four we had a too far I had a little African we had all week long I pick Canelo to win on ESPN on sports and I was working so I won twelve Big Ben it's five out so yeah yeah so I'm you know you you you start to you human you start to hear people's

10:21like you you know that know something about fighting that is added closer so you maybe you don't want to yell at you out of 117 112 but yeah you still gotta yell it yeah because that's what you believe that's what you saw and I still say it I still yell it that it was they didn't give him credit for jabs like James don't count no more like I'm not gonna pick out anybody because that's not really fair to to when you have a podium and they don't have a podium but sometimes it is because they deserve it but not generally and the judges nowadays I I think that they just give it I see too often that they almost go down the easy route like you know they just give it to who's aggressive but guys walking forward or guys throwing punches it's like they're favoring that guy and it's more to it than that and I understand it to support us and help itself they don't

11:25make a clear criterium for but it's supposed to be clean harder effective punches because the separation of professional boxing and amateur boxing is you have to sell it you have to make money right and you got to put Fannie's in the seat so you want to see guys get hurt you want to see guys impact guys so it's the cleaner who hurts the guy more it's the cleaner more impactful punches but it's not just drone it's not just aggression because the aggression has to lead to something effective effective aggression so I I saw for me to get it to that 117 112 I saw golovkin on the outside control range controlling distance you want to use that silly word ring generalship because I have the time I don't know what they're talking about they say ring general look right what are you talking about I just saw the way you judged it what would it where did you fit in ring generalship into that

12:23into your thinking because I'd like to know but if it is ring generalship he was controlling range he was controlling outside he was keeping the shorter man on the outside catching him with the jab making him earn his way in making them pay a price to get in now was the other guy Canelo being the other guy landing the hard clean body shots that sometimes you don't get credit for yeah he was Oh like I say on a yesterday he was putting water in a basement yeah he definitely was but the jab didn't count suddenly was suddenly in a universe where the jab of a guy doesn't mean anything when we don't want it to mean anything when we want to give it to the aggressive guide to the to the guy trying to you know trying to get in there the question is like what's more important is a jab more important or a hook to the body what is more important and you're to the body clean is more important

13:15but if the jab outnumbers the hooks to the body through many rounds and and the numbers are significant that it's greater than then you have to account for that right so you think that people are watching they're watching a couple of jabs and then one hook to the body and they count that one hook to the body better than they count the two tabs and I don't have a problem with that because I counted it that way till if it's a good shot yeah because again a power shot yeah because that is what's gonna drive people to the event right to the sport there's a harder punches so I have no problem with that but if the jabs are twenty jabs right and it's two body punches well then I'm starting to say we can't forget the jabs because the body punch has got your attention mm-hmm and and it you know it moved you out of your seat a little bit maybe because for whatever reason so I'm just

14:10saying that the critérium is not clean enough for the judges sometimes well it's a bit even bigger mass in MMA and it's a lot of the same judges you mean I think the problem with judging is the same at both sports you should have someone who has experience in the sport I mean they they have to have a deep understanding of what they're actually watching and that's not the case I know it's not the case in boxing because I know a lot of the same judges from boxing also judge MMA they don't know what they're talking about in MMA and I don't think they know what they're talking about in boxing either and that's a real travesty it's a huge disservice to these professional athletes who literally are as you said risking everything as they step in there there's a real good chance that they might not come out I mean it happens every so many fights a guy dies this is

14:57just a fact in boxing and the football - football - sure MMA as well well MMA has plenty of problems you know I mean there's there's less deaths in MMA but we're getting deaths from weigh-ins you know we have a lot of extreme weight cutting issues and some of the smaller organizations in particular all of that stuff is legitimate it's a problem something that should be looked at it's just a shame that the judging is so poor and it's been this way for so long well through the boxing I mean you have it then I'm not saying this in a derogatory way in some ways it's a good way but you have a dictator running you know UFC no but but it's okay to have a dictator sometimes because at least you have rules that are adhere to your leash have structure yeah and you know as long as they're not you know taking people out I know you're so know I know you're saying and so boxing has boxing has no real

15:56accountable no structure across the board no you know will you know lateral destruction conformity nothing unilateral because you have different states that have different Commission's and you know they're supposed to be tied together but they all act differently and there's no national commission there's no body there's no dictator there's no czar there's no there's no NBA commissioner there's no NFL Commissioner there's no MLB commissioner that overlooks and police's the whole sport and there's no separation of church and state so to speak where the people making the money in the sport are separated truly separated from the people supposedly administrating this but there's no separation right I mean promoters actually that are making the money and have obviously a horse that's running in the game so to speak that night that they want that fighter to win

16:55they pay the judges and there's no there's no again there's no buffer there's no separation where you can have promoters and managers they can actually go to the Commission and say we don't want these judges to judge they can't say put this judgin but they cannot judge this out and the commissioners will listen to them the alphabet organizations they're corrupt they are I mean it's not Teddy Atlas saying it it's everybody saying that there's very few people are gonna say they're not corrupt well they're co-opted I mean if you're gonna be honest about it and you're not and you don't have an agenda where you're afraid to say it because you have an agenda which a lot of people do in my business they have agenda so they're not gonna say they because they're part of it and then our part of it they're they're friendly were people that are part of it and they won't have

17:47access they want to have relationships so they say away from it and and they understand how the column should work so they understand you know is it is it a smoky room with cigars like the old days well Frankie Cabo who's running things and you put an envelope no it's not that but you might be paying thirty thousand dollars for an ad and and in at a convention for the WBA or the WBC or the WI bf4 WBO or whatever the heck they are and you might be paying thirty thousand for and what you you know why you paid to thirty thousand for that I don't think that you just like to see your name an ad in in the brochure there's there was a purpose behind paying I had and so there's no again you have the administrators of the sport the Commission's and then you have to alphabet organizations that get paid a sanction and free from the champion so they want that champion to win and so

18:51they get the sanctioning fee and especially if he's a popular champion so they so now you have no body saying what the manager can't talk to the sanction organization promoter can of course they can talk to them and say I want my guys rated high of course they have access so they have access to talking to somebody influencing somebody to move their guy up in the ratings these are honest ratings and they have access to telling an organization well you know I'd like to push a mandatory I'd like to push my guide to get the mandatory which means of course that he's gotta fight him within a certain period of time he's gotta fight the champion which is missing in MMA yeah so you have all that stuff going on and where will where is the where was the was the oversight yeah whereas all of us I was the police who Westar right where's the line because again people making money people

19:58running the sport people making money people administrating the sport it's not supposed to blur it is supposed to be a separation now if you know where to go in Europe America the United States - but all to Europe where there's a lot of big fights - it's just a big fight with Joshua in London he drew 90,000 people which is good for the sport and it's it's incredible but if you know where restaurant to go to the night before big fight you will walk in a restaurant I've been there you will walk in the restaurant I'm not gonna say something if I can't stand by it and you will see at the restaurant it's a big table kind of light though you know let the Last Supper but it's it's a big table and you will see all the officials at that table that are gonna work to fight the next night and you will see the organizational heads the heads of that sanctioning body and and the guys

20:58haven't charged the presidents vice presidents supervisors judges referees and guess who the host of the dinner is the promoter somewhere with that I mean there's something greatly wrong with that so the host of the dead end it's a big bill obviously I mean it's a lot of people it's a good restaurant they eating all the best stuff drinking the best wines and everything else so it's a big bill and it's being picked up by the promoter who wants a specific fighter to win that night right and he's got all he's got access to all the judges all the officials all the organizational heads now so I would say to the people that are listening out there that just to make the analogy that really I think would hit home the New York Yankees they're obviously a universally known name and and Brandner organization maybe the biggest of all time so how about in New York you go to the best restaurant and

22:07night before a World Series game you walked into the restaurant and you saw all the umpiring crew all the officials that are in charge of the umpiring for the World Series game sitting at a dinner hosted by the Steinbrenner's problem problem problem problem yeah giant problem yeah and it can't happen because there's a commission would never let that happen because the integrity the credibility of the sport would be down the tubes in one moment before you can finish your shrimp cocktail and but so it can't happen it had it was unchecked and box but it happens all the time in boxing and just to look of impropriety is wrong it should be wrong it should be wrong a baseball it should be wrong and football should be wrong and every but it should be even more wrong in a sport where you risk so much yeah no I agree yeah it's a very very good point and I don't know how you

23:07would ever fix that I mean how would you have some universal oversight over the entire sport and how would you get everybody from the WBO double you know WBC yeah they wouldn't know no they don't care enough because the President of the United States started caring when there was a problem with baseball he got he got involved that was about steroids though right yeah but it was a problem but wasn't that a horseshit problem I mean it was a real problem but it was more of a problem of they wanted to clean up the image because it's America's sport and they had these people their defense were gonna leave the game a little bit right so it was a problem it was a problem it was impacting them it was impacting listen well it was impacting the perception of the game which impacted the the gates what they're gonna make and ultimately the fan base which of course impacts

24:01them financially it impacts the country because if less people care about this sport you're gonna see it less and if you care about it you're gonna be one of the people that are left out so it was a problem and they they can't I don't I'm gonna be careful saying as but not that careful but because you have to say it I don't think that they care as much about the people in boxing I don't think they do either I just it's it's more of a dangerous dirty sport in their eyes yeah and and the people that come into it and everything else I'm not gonna get into all the other stuff that you could get into that you know it's so popular to get into in some ways nowadays I mean like racism yeah yeah I'm not gonna get into that because I don't wanna and I don't have you know definitive things to show for that I just know how I will the purse I feel I'm supports it's not it's not cherished

25:02the way baseball's cherished what is a big fight like Canelo and triple G people get excited and a lot of people will buy it but it's not necessarily thought of as something that represents America and it particularly in Canelo triple G you're talking about two people that aren't American to begin with yes yeah and there's a history to boxing though that unfortunately you know because I care about this point in my whole life um that it's right yeah it's got a reputation as being correct yeah and and unfortunately fortunately and unfortunately like there's a part the good part where the history goes back long farther than any other sport any other sport I mean it was the first sport in the Olympics it goes back further and it was the biggest important in this country bigger than baseball at one time it was that big I mean you know so and now it's it's not and it's too

26:00bad because and it's too bad that the kids that the younger people they don't have the ability to learn about those fighters so special fighters that was special they really want and it was special for different reasons like like Jackie Robinson was special we know we don't have to go into why he was special but nobody knows that Joe Lewis he was quiet and everything but when he was in the army and it was you know segregation and all that crap going on he he quietly used position as heavyweight champ of the world to make sure that when he went to movies and they put him in the front row and he saw that blacks aren't allowed to come in he said I'm not going in there unless blacks can come in there when he went to other sort of events where the same kind of junk was going on he very quietly but powerfully integrated things and and said no I'm gonna make a change

27:03here you're not gonna have me and not have people that look like me you know kept out so he and there were people I've read about it because I like reading about those things about history to see how we could be better and and where we've come from and there were history of black families you know poor black families that would would get hope from just saying hey Lewis did it they would tell their kids hey Joe listen I don't want to hear this I don't want to hear that you can't do this Joe Lewis did it and so he was that important that's all that's the only point I'm making here he was that freaking important that that history and the history of other fighters like him doesn't have to be black fighters but that what they for what they did what they overcame where they came from who Betty Leonard one of the greatest Jewish fighters of all time it was a time when and and it's still around

28:04unfortunately there's a lot of anti-semitism but there was a time where you know it was tough being a Jew and and you're growing up and you get caught or I don't know if I'm pronouncing right I think yeah right and you get cold all those kind of I don't even know what the hell it means I just know it's a bad name to call Jew and and you had all that stuff going on and Jews woman thought of being they were thought of moving towards banking and they they moving towards things were making money and they were so later on they started doing that but they were in the ghettos and they were trying to pull themselves out and so at that era during that time the 20s to 30s the truth was some of the best fighters because that was their way again now but there wasn't there was another significance to being a jewish fighter that a lot of the kids they won't thought of as being tough so they got

29:01picked on and and thought of that they're gonna go more towards academic and other stuff so there was a weakness perceived not true none of this stuff is mark yeah yeah so now all of a sudden Betty Leonard comes along when the sports the biggest sport in the country and he's the best freakin fighter in the game and he combed his hair before he got in the ring and he would come out without it being messed and this was this guy was I mean he was he was Michael Jordan I mean before that stuff before Michael Jordan before Air Jordan both wanted I mean this guy was not only tough he was not only a champion puts obviously connected to being tough by itself but it was he was smart he was he was cool he had pizzazz he was a man and there were Jewish families you don't hear about these stories but they were Jewish families I've read and I've heard from people where say hey don't let

30:08nobody pick on you Benny Leonard is the best fighter in the world Jews are tough we're not just smart but tough Betty Leonard shows that so that kind of history that kind of pulling of people up in many different ways not just economically out of poverty but but emotionally mentally because you can be in poverty mentally you can be in a low place mentally it doesn't have to be you know financially all the time you know where you have holes in your shoes and you're wearing shirts that don't fit no it can be the way you feel about yourself that is without it's without prosperity with without value you have no value for yourself as a person that's the worst poverty in the frickin world there's nothing lower than that and Joe Lewis and Benny Leonard they will fight as they won't baseball players they pulled people out of those places they let people know they had

31:17value that their race had value their people had value they had value and that should be known and you can go anywhere and and I'm glad you can because I love all sports you can go anywhere and you can read about the greatness of the baseball players and the greatness of course NFL hasn't been around that long but the greatness of those players and the greatness of the NBA players but where did the kids ever get to read and to hear and to see about the greatness of these people these fighters know we're very little very little it's not there why because again I'm not gonna get into craziness but the powers that be the listen it's not marketed properly I get it it doesn't have a commission so it doesn't take care of itself the way the UFC the greatness about why the UFC grew so much as they marketed themselves in a tremendous way so there's nobody boxing

32:15is just there it takes care of itself it exists because it's man against man so it's always gonna be there but nobody's building it nobody's mocking you no one's feeding the monster to make it bigger and it's a plant that's in the corner of your office that doesn't get Sun doesn't get haunted but it's still there right it's still there and what I'm saying is that sorry I didn't want to yell because now I'm probably happy but but but it should be fed a little bit it should be watered a little bit but you know what I just don't know guys like you guys like you guys who have a deep appreciation for the history of sport guys who have a deep appreciation of what it meant when Joe Lewis beat Mac smelling guys guys who understand what it meant when Sugar Ray Robinson was the best fighter in the world and everybody knew and he pull up in a pink Cadillac with a beautiful

33:18suit on and and he and he made the elevated he elevated people in Harlem every round but Harlem he had he owned half a Harlem he owned restaurants and and and there's and stores and barbershops and and everything and and you wanted to be there because that's where Sugar Ray Robinson came from yeah it was great yeah it's a rich part of history that really does get ignored let me tell you something I was smelling you brought up you know obviously stuff and that's what it's nice to talk about which smelling was a hell of a fighter Joe Lewis was the brown bomber he was coming up he was undefeated and um smelling had the great quote before the fight you know it's kind of like the Babe Ruth thing that it really happened where he pointed out and then he hit the hole you know those those are great stories but but with what what's the real truth behind them you know if we

34:13don't know we don't care we don't care at a certain point you know why because they let us feel good they let us dream about possibilities and we should all have possibilities to dream about and they make somebody feel good because you know the Babe Ruth one was connected to a sick kid so it's a nice thing and it's where sports can be better than just sports than just somebody participating in it can go beyond that it could be stronger than that and that's some of the good stuff about it and so smelling the great story he didn't point to you know the to the fence but he said before the fight I see something what that's my my my trying to be an accent for the German you know but I sound more like Schultz from Hogan's Heroes I don't know why every time you try to do something like with certain you know ethnic you know pronunciations you you sound like you go to one of those

35:20sitcoms you go to one of those places you know and when I say somebody I think my kid I think my son said you know he had watched one of them and I think he said yes he sounded like sergeant Schultz like from Hogan's Heroes but and he said I see something and what he saw was that Lewis would jab and he would leave you should never leave your head on a on the right side because if you leave your head you know you move your head to the right side you're in a path to the right hand you should actually finish on the left side because then you outside the right hand you follow mm-hmm there's the right hand over here it can hit you right outside right so he had a habit of and he had a great trainer he had a habit though at that point of leaving his head over and a right so smelling saw something as he said that he could hit him or right in he could time it over the gym now

36:17smelling was of the ilk of the level of the caliber it wasn't just about talent he could punch he was a good fighter but it was a problem what do I mean by that a lot of guys would hesitate a little bit same opening they might see it but it was the brown bomber was knockin everyone out so they hesitate they were afraid normal a lot of people afraid of that word I mean it's there and without it we're not alive so he they might see the same thing but they woman at a pro level pro level is a guy that can do what he has to do and no emotions interfere with doing it I mean that's my simplest way of Webster's might not say that but that's what I would say so they might have seen the opening but they would hesitate just enough and it'd be gone to go close cuz it's it's it's like life it's moments capture a moment lose a moment and but this guy was a problem

37:20he he didn't let that come in there and make him hesitate that that fear he controlled it and if the openin was there bang he was gonna throw the punch so he did and he dropped loose a few times and you know he won that fight and what round to stop him and I can't remember that maybe you may be the ninth but was late in the fight but he had hurt him and you know Lewis was taking a beating so Lewis went on he won no world title and um he beat Braddock for the title Cinderella Man great movie yes ma'am you know he came from welfare to be in a world champion that's the Braddock story without getting into it too much so he Lewis beats Braddock and had to give a percentage you know and dunking and IRA might have been around then but but the people that taught him what to do were around taught him how to take advantage of fighters told him how what options

38:26were before options were ever known ha you know the Braddock I think I forget his name but Braddock's manager basically made Lewis and his people agree to give him a percentage of his person for the rest of his career to get the fight yeah Zoe yeah so I mean you could obviously be searched and look into how much percentage well I don't know I listen I could say 10% but I don't want to say definitively because I'm not positive but but there was an understanding that you know you you're not getting a fight otherwise like you wanna get to fight now and listen it was like I said you know not great guys but King and Iram they they had other guys before them that taught them some of these moves you know that was so nice but there's always a history of good and bad sure always who's good well this will get to that there's a shining star promoter out there I try to think about

39:33it but so we so they go and there he wouldn't say title and of course in the biggest port in the country so right all the press is there and there Joe is champion was it's not yet not yet what do you mean not yet just won the title not yet - I beat that man he didn't ever have to say his name not - I beat that man that's how much pride he had and listen he's the real deal because it is mine how could I be champion if a guy knocked me out right so when that fight took place I mean you talk about a setting a stage you know nowadays people said all on the stage is a lot of pressure you know hey I'm not saying it's not I'm not saying it but a lot of pressure you know almost a lot of people looking a lot of people you know depending on I a lot of stuff going on you know and and I you know maybe I got a headache but Joe Lewis had World War two on a horizon the President of the

40:42United States called him up and you had Nazi Germany you had a guy named Hitler that that is saying that he's got you know the master race it's gonna take over the world just starting that stuff not too far away from World War two and you got all that stuff permeating in the air and you got lose fighting a guy who of course you know propaganda was started by the Germans if you want all Muslim to me almost invented that word because you had the propaganda minister and you had all these terrible people with Hitler that were putting out that they're the master race there there's there that you had to judge your own situation Olympics yeah and now you had the biggest sport in the biggest country and the champion of that sport heavyweight champ Joe Lewis and he's fighting the German fighter Schmeling the second time now for the title and of course you had

41:43Hitler and all his psycho fans all these people that were their job was to promote it so to speak and they come and they're saying we will show the world that were superior and there's no better way to show it than in a ring and so Lewis has to he's got him he's got to carry all this stuff I mean take about it and he's a black guy that that he still can't go into certain places t and he's gotta carry the whole he's gotta carry the whole country and not let them down in the president cause and again we don't know if there's a legendary story we don't know if it's completely true but supposedly the president called him said Joe you gotta win this one for the good guys dad that's that's one of the legends I don't know if it's true but I know that I'm sure he corner I'm sure II called him and Lewis has to go into it's kind of going to Yankee Stadium outdoors and

42:55in Times Square in New York they used to have it set up where they would the radio because all the fights were on radio back then and in some of them on fights on TV on select Caprica to sports and all that stuff Friday Night Fights but what was coming along you know just coming along but radio was the thing and so in Times Square you had the radio speakers outdoors you know playing the fight broadcasting the fight so people out on the streets they hear the radio and they hear you know Joe loses walking into the ring and you know and you got the Yankee Stadium you got the place full and you got the whole world of everything I just described the good the bad the evil the ugly everything it's not a movie it's real life and you got Joe lose and he gets in that ring and he annihilates with all this pressure with what that he's got to save them basically the United States in a world

44:00from from looking like this this ugly scourge and and and disease of the Nazi Party is is gonna take over the world is greater than us and and he single-handedly has to prove that and he he goes in and he annihilates the guy in one room with all that stuff hanging over I think that's the greatest single event in the history of the world put that fighter pull that fight up and put it in the background and I think that that when you talk about all the things that we're here to talk about about character about talent about preservations about resiliency about about caring about more than yourself about selflessness about strength when you talk about all those things that we try to say that we care about and that we sometimes look to be and very rarely can we be that he was all that he was all of that and there it is right there I mean how great is that and he stalked the guy he stalked the

45:19guy and his punches was short and powerful and he was the greatest finisher in the history of heavyweight boxing because when he hurts you you didn't survive he got rid of you he put punches together and it was short and he was always in position look at his legs he's always in position you move forward he takes a little step fall back throws punches is absolutely beautiful if you wanted to teach a young fighter how to punch correctly Joe Lewis there's no better guy to watch than Charlie no you saw did you see Joe what he did a little no a minute ago smelling tried to catch him with that same right hand he had knocked him out two years earlier go back they just missed it but he changed he stepped out he changed his distance this time because Jackie Blackburn who's a great fighter a black fighter he was a trainee was a great train and nobody hears about Jackie Blackburn what a

46:17great fighter he was and what a great trainee was and how he wasn't allowed to fight white fighters and he beat everybody look at it counter left hook instead of laying his head on the right like he did the first fight he changed his range and he made that right hand miss and look how car yes look how calm he is look how focused he is it's beautiful look at the nominees legs Joe watch watch how he's always in position look at what did we miss what didn't you see go back besides there's no the blinding jab that that sets it up we don't see what the jab is just a decoy just get hit with the right so you'll see it right what a beautiful sidestep - all right after he lands our right beautiful look at that right well that's why it's the greatest finisher of all time watch watch wave finishes this guy what it's gonna go to the body in the head right right hand to the body right hand to the

47:13head oh that is so short and even when he's got the guy hurt look at the guy look at that phenomenal phenomenal and he did all of that with everything we just talked about for the last 20 minutes hanging over him yeah doesn't that make you think a little bit doesn't that make you feel something about us really yeah well that's one of the reasons why I'm a Giants fan of the sport yeah thank you I mean that that alone is in terms of like historical impact I agree with you it's one of the biggest moments in all of sports ever in life in life you know what I like about boxing I like a lot of things I don't like I don't like the administrators I hate them I know there's a powerful word but you know not every single one of them but I'm just saying I I hate their weakness I hate their cowardice I do I do because they sit outside the ring a lot of them you brought up a point they should have had

48:16to experience one way or the other and they've never ever had any pony punch room and I'm not saying it to be a man you got to get punched I'm not saying any of that stuff it's being a man is a lot more than that a lot more know plenty of people get punched and then I meant but what I'm saying is that you should understand what it feels to a person to put themselves on the line and there is so much and to risk everything to try to get their family in a better place I think there's also they should be a fan I don't think some of them are even fans no they're not and some of my not even like it they wouldn't tell you that right but they just do it for a job yeah yeah and and what I'm saying is that when you when I see these people that haven't put them spin in that place and not everyone can be in that place so again I got to be careful with that if I'm gonna be

49:11fair but for them so easily to take something away from somebody see what's different for me why I get passionate if you want to use that word people say Teddy you get a little crazy if it happens in baseball and a guy beats out to throw now you have cameras so you didn't use to have that but if a guy you didn't have replay back in the day a guy it happened a lot times guy was safe and in calm out you know what too bad it's a shame but you know what the next day he's gonna play the game again and he's gonna be able to make amends for that he and his family and he's got guaranteed contracts and you know what it's gonna be okay I mean it was it right wrong is never right no but you know what in the mix of things we're gonna overcome that but now you take a fight same thing and the judge judges make a mistake maybe on purpose whatever but they make a bad

50:13mistake the fight it can't go back the next day and rectify that the fighter doesn't have a guaranteed contract he only has what he can make if he gets to that fight that's it for that night guess where that fighter goes he don't go back to the dugout and then come out the next day and play again with a new uniform on now he goes to the back of the line and boxing and has to take hundreds maybe thousands of punches to get back to that place he was to earn the right to get closer to the exit in the business because everyone's trying to get to the exit they're trying to gain what they can gain but their legacy but for their families for themselves in many ways financially you know and and but also and what's inside them that they that they have to prove something that they have to make it for all different personal reasons and they're close to doing that and now they're

51:15forced because of some crock maybe it's incompetence is either corruption or incompetence okay but sometimes it's corruption and they have to go all the way to the back of the line now then I'm playing a football game the next Sunday then I played an NBA game two days later and they gotta take all those punches and a hope hope they get back to that place and you know what I seen it I did 22 years of ESPN boxing I've been with ESPN about 22 years but I did like 18 years whatever was a Friday Night Fights we did a lot of title fights not the big names not the Canelo's not not the golovkin z' not the Mayweather's but guys that have interest is much too even more because they didn't have me as a dallas and they got their shot and i watched him get robbed and I saw that they never got back there that night was the right night for them that particular night everything worked everything was

52:20perfect all that training everything came together and they were beautiful they were magnificent and they were freaking robbed and it's wrong it's really wrong and that's what they do when they do that but the glorious thing of if that's not too made-up of a word it sounds like glory but the beautiful thing about boxing is that with everything wrong in the world and I hate to use this cliche this terminology but you know with life being unfair because I don't like to use that because because sometimes people nowadays for me they there's too many excuses out there they really are there's too many damn excuses you're in this country you got a chance to do something well you don't have in other places but having said that he can feel like life's not fast sometimes especially when you think about some of the things we just talked about in a day that's gone now

53:23it's not there no hope but what a day of Lewis knows kind of people life wasn't fair that really they really had a right to use that same nowadays I don't think people who have a white black purple they don't have a right to say that to the extent that they did back then not to Houston no no they don't they really listen all the things wrong are they're messed up people still out there yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but sometimes it's too easy to use that yes it's just too easy so but there was a time when life too often was unfair ruthlessly and yeah really unfair ruthlessly yeah yeah yeah and when life was unfair boxing was around to make it fair and I tell you how on one given night if you worked hard enough if you dream big enough if you were tough enough and you made yourself tough enough you sacrificed enough it became polished and savvy enough and and technically equipped to

54:37to things that you had then you learned those things and he just worked yourself to the ball no matter where you came from no matter what part of the world no matter what who your parents were no matter what your poverty level may have been may not have been no matter what you had what you didn't have no matter what people had told you didn't tell you all of that if you made yourself and took advantage of that opportunity got yourself ready and you were ready to behave like a champion you could get in that ring on one given night and make the world fair and have your handle if that we called champion of the world that makes boxing special and that's what these judges don't get that kids are waiting to hear that and they give everything you know you hear too much to crap where I would die for that as people that would die for that there were people in our times

55:48in this world in his country and you used the right world word you know tragically whatever we're powerful word you had issues ruthlessly yeah yeah there were people because of that word because of the reality of the actions attached to that world word if you told them listen you you got a you you're gonna have to die you know after this but you'll get to have this your hand will be lifted you will be called champion of the world all your people will see it and if people you want to see it and yourself but you die afterwards I would give you that people would sign on that's how important that was that's what that stood for and then you get judges that have no conception of that I don't mean to laugh but no I'm not saying they have to have a complete conception of it but no feeling of what we're talking about I think they're like DMV workers that's what I think I think

56:52there's a bunch of them that are real good but a lot of them are just like people that are just taking a government job that's what I think and I think it's a travesty that they're not removed that's what I think whenever I go to a UFC and that like I said a lot of it the same judges and I see some of these these scores I want to take my headset off and throw it into the cage and scream and flip over the table and you just kind of take a deep breath and calm yourself down because there's nothing you can do and these athletic commissions have kept these people on for whatever reason and you're watching a bad decision you watch someone who trained for eight ten weeks for this one particular fight in years and years to get to that position and they're getting and they're getting because someone just sucks at their job and they don't care and this per and they think they're gonna be there

57:38two months from now or another fight and there's nothing you could do about it and I don't understand it I don't understand how the Commission's let this slide I don't know how difficult it is to fire these people were to prove they're incompetent but I do know that especially with with oh I guess it's probably true with both boxing and MMA there are countless fans out there that do a far better job countless countless people that have had experience in fighting countless people that have a deep appreciation and understanding of what's actually going on inside the fight and these people don't get those jobs and instead these same fools continue to give piss-poor decisions or corrupt decisions I mean whoever that woman was you know there's mention people's names but there's been some decisions there's been some horrific decision whether you're talking about

58:28the Mayweather Canelo yes the woman that yes what name either because she was also involved in another one was it yes you got 30 Brad I think Manny Pacquiao yeah she was involved in a couple yeah as a couple at least two oh yeah so I think would being you know we're being responsible and why was she still there right seriously why was she why was she still there why yeah why why was she still they I mean right we're not talking about neurosurgeon sick really right we're talking about a job there's a lot of people that could do it I'm not saying it's an easy job but I'm saying there's a lot of people that are have a real understanding of boxing that would have done a way better job I mean somebody robs a bank they're not your bank teller the next week exactly well at all the promoters today is Golden Boy the best I mean at least Oscar De La Hoya Bernard Hopkins they're

59:29legit world champion fighters yeah I mean they they have a they got but they're attached to they got one they go to strengthen it got a weakness their weaknesses they attached really attached it to him to one you know their solar system so to speak has one son and I son is cool Canelo Brunello disappears tomorrow and therefore yeah they're not happy they got some problems but listen now Haman's out there you know he's PBC you know he came along um he just signed a deal from what I read I think I'm saying the numbers right we have Fox gave him fifty million dollars for a four year deal to put fights out there and he's probably got the best stable I'll fight its I mean he's hey he's got what the guy hasn't been fighting but the guy was I think was one of the best guys Thurman but you know he's got who I really loved this guy's a beast my son loves him

60:27Spence arrow Spencer yes he's a beast I mean the guy yeah I like him inside and out what do I mean by that I mean yeah he truly believes that he should fight all the best he truly believes he's the best he truly believes he's gonna get to you you know what I mean yes and any fights that way and he's a great guy like he's a good guy he's a good guy so it's it's particulate yeah and it makes it better yeah he's fun got a big smile yeah yeah it's better you know Terence Crawford is another one on Crawford sad and so I mean havens got a lot of he's also got Wilder in a heavyweight champ but one of the champs whatever that is but while uh technically he's got a lot of problems but he's got one thing that's not a problem and confidence but whatever think oh my goodness he's the right hand oh my goodness he oh listen I he if he hits you and the Ortiz fight was

61:31very interesting yeah he was hurt it was a bad shape yeah and still referee might have helped him a little but he was in bad shape and uh but boy oh boy he'll you know I'll I say it a lot of times he had that eraser you know I remember I remember I was it's not a great memory but as a kid somehow I wound up and Catholic school for a minute and those nuns they should have been fighters they will mean they will mean I think they were a little twisted some of them but I'm not gonna go to but they were little they would mean but they had no problem hitting you in the head with that black eraser like you won't pay bank if just like it was hard it was like I don't cross what floor and he has that eraser that's the point on me he has that a ready-to-wear back but it's a good technique Baylands technique bed power lock lock boom really he lets people go flying I mean and he's not a giant

62:40heavyweight either in terms of his foes but we know what he is though he's long yes and he's tall and look at those arms he is long I mean he could if it was any a could hit your close DeVoe well so is Tyson Fury and that's one of the things that makes this fight very very first lasting that's one of the times where that's saying styles make fights that's gonna that's gonna be this fight that is gonna be the whole dress Tyson Fury is a well he could move yeah it's not only six seven or whatever the hell he is six eight maybe six nine long but he could move it each other legs phenomenal yeah somebody forgot to tell me he's a heavyweight because he moves around like a lightweight yeah and that could be a problem yeah until he gets hit also he talks tremendous until he gets hit well then things change yeah but I always used to say when I was doing a broadcast

63:30if I would always say and ice of course I wouldn't say it if I didn't have a belief in this and the proof of it in my mind at least that punches are born they're not made yeah you're born or you you're not going to be a punch of that level you just saw and I'll tell you something funny that because you brought it up about him being you know he's not a big you know he's got that prototypical big husky you know you know weds doubt hi Joshua yeah he's not that bright but I'll tell you when I was training fighters when I was young and I was taking them to smokers in the Bronx to get experience every week tough places here in the South Bronx and we'll take them to these unsanctioned fights just to get them experience and if I didn't know the fighter say I had I'm responsible for these kids back then I'm like their parent and their trust me some of them didn't have parents but the

64:25ones that did they would trust me to take care of this kid they didn't know I was going to South Bronx where where I remember one time I borrowed a call from somebody I didn't have too good enough car it was the publisher of the newspaper there the catskill Daily Mail and and I've come to his name in the publisher and I borrowed his station wagon I didn't have a car pick enough to take the kids and um as I'm leaving he says it's you're not taking over a bad place where they like robbed hubcaps or something and I was like no because I didn't think I was lying because to me they robbed the whole car so so I said no because he left her hubcaps right so I said no okay so I get there the first thing I do is I pulled the you know underneath the El you know for people don't knows to train somebody in the tree and I underneath and and uh that was you talk about life growing up quick

65:21you in one night it was like you live reading chapters of a book you went through different things and you learn different things about yourself and about what's there what you don't see and you haven't been around but it's there and it's good to know it's there a different life given way and I'm down the South Bronx and and first thing I did I went to mr. Santos he was the father one of my kids I went to his ball cross the street said Mr Central my cars over there gotcha and I come out and all the batteries of the cars will call in except mine quite often and uh but my car was good it's the Santos and his crew made sure that nobody took my battery and so we were good so I was looking out for the kids because I did what I had to do but it was a scary place was a tough place and um the kids grew up fast it was three flights and it was often thought that it was meant to be three

66:19flights because she had time to think turn those flights the first flight quite frankly are you saw syringes sometimes kids didn't know nothing about these kids with cats go New York they're really syringes and then the next flight you know you smell urine because people were there they went up there and they were you know calling a bathroom doing whatever and shooting up whatever and you it's smell but then by the time you get to third fight you've started to hear noise started to hear salsa music and you you could smell some they were they were cooking all the Spanish specialties the the fried bananas the the meat with with the potato in the middle PO antis and all that I've even you know no me no both the names but all the different and then of course a lot of rum a lot of it was a ball but that's how they kept that's how they paid the rent for the gym because they would do

67:24these smokers twice a month you know there was a smoke every week in New York every week people had to know where they want but they were every week and later they won't sanction there was no doctor and listen I'm going out there and saying yeah that don't sound too good I got you but we made it good yeah we made it good we made sure we took cancer we'd made it I know it was still dangerous it was still older but you want to know something a kid drinking a bottle of vodka a day was pretty freakin dangerous okay I had some idiot one time I was trying to get money for my foundation and I was explaining to him and and it was a political guy and I was explaining to him when he calls hug but you get breakdown rigid box and it is every day like I was trying to like you when you want to throw you the headset when you see this truck I was like trying to control myself I'm trying to

68:15talk to him I supposed to talk to right guy where this guy get money from my foundation it helps these people right so I'm trying to talk to him and I'm saying um do you get brain damage from being out in the street and getting hit with a pipe to get brandy because there's the people I'm helping do you get brain damage from from doing crack do you get brain damage I did have a kid who drank a bottle of vodka now when he gave him to my program in the foundation of we run for two years he's been announced three years he's been clean ah he's backwards family he was living on the streets he was with gangs and when he got into boxing in one of our programs he stopped all that but he was drinking a bottle of vodka yeah it's true 15-year yeah a lot of people say Teddy how do you drink uh yeah but he was how do you do it because you have a lot of pain maybe or whatever whatever

69:09but yeah he was and so I was I said to the guy who's trying not to get into an argument but I was like boxing causes brain damage but I'm taking guys awake it's that the alternative is the bottle of vodka the crack the needle the pipe on the head or maybe the pipe on someone else's head where they caused brain damage to someone else maybe unfortunately your one day walking out of your house what about that brain damage that's your way of telling me no that's your way of not giving me what I'm asking for to say that why don't you think it out a little bit more why don't you think it out a little more and give me a better excuse why don't you at least understand what would yeah there's a reason why we're doing this so these kids we would go we will go to South Bronx and these kids would they woke up you know like I said they woke up to steps by the time that door opened up

70:12and and again this is how they paid the rent by selling liquor by charging three dollars to get in and selling that food and a place would be packed packed and when they yell went by you talk about you talk we talked a little about pression about you know what pressure does to you he can form you could destroy you but conform you could make you realize what you're capable of you know the greatest thing about what parks and does for somebody it makes them know Teddy what is boxing do for you well you jab you there know your condition you take care your tempo your body all that stuff yeah it sounds good said he give us one thing the box and dance further and lets you know you could depend on yourself that's a kid know that he can like himself we don't know he can like himself and depend on himself these kids so was it rough it was rough so we in the place and there's

71:16no doctor here we had no sanction and organization we made all in fights but there was a danger but I just told you the other dangers this was taking them and replacing those other dangers who's taking them away from the you know what it was the only positive thinking in neighborhood for these kids it really was was a rough yeah boxing but I just talked about life is rough especially for these people rougher so it was an alternative to violence people say teddy way it's all about boxing fight no because if you're angry which these kids are if they don't learn to lose that anger they never become anything in boxing because they walk in and get hit they learn that they can control that anger they could put it somewhere they learn that they can control themselves they can depend on themselves to be something positive so I would take these kids and we would go

72:17there and we were the only white kids in the place and they loved us they were funny like said the guy who ran in Nelson Cuevas he's a great guy but he you know I mean look he carried a gun in his holster and it's in his belt felt because he knew it could be rough there I mean I did I leave that part out to the parents when I was taking them that the proprietor of the place you know has a gun and every once a while he opens his jack it makes sure that some people remember that he has yeah all right but they looked out for you they the kids I know I know it sounds contrary I get it contradictory but it was a these kids they learned so much about themselves and we protect I looked out we looked out for and when it came time to make the matches the point I was making about water and you talked about being long and about you know I'm sorry I jump all over the place it's great but I oh I

73:18learned coach taught me this but you have to learn it yourself you have to see it you have to be in it cuz told me about it but that's only part of it he always told me Teddy be careful with skinny wiry guys they did the greatest punches I think I was thinking you know this they're the greatest punches he never told me why let me figure it out I saw it I saw whether you get him out yeah you know army hands yeah but I know why now leverage yeah talk talk whatever you call that yeah and so anyway so here we are and if you saw the guy you knew who to match with but if you didn't see the guy you had to depend on other things who's the coach certain coaches had no good fighters certain coach they're good fighters another coach does he have a good realizes he honest sea lion does he have does he have a opinion that is good or does he just say things so I'd have

74:27to go through all that if I didn't know the guy I wouldn't put my kid in with the guy unless I was sure what he was sure it was hard because everyone was lying though there was like a cold his all connected to lion unfortunately but but everyone looking out for that kid like if you said I'll give you an example because we guess who the match maker was I became the matchmaker but you know in the place Oh Spanish black I mean but Nelson made me the matchmaker you be the matchmaker and a lot of the people didn't speak English so you know we figure it out we get there so I've either so you make a column it's the name of the fighter the weight yeah so you you weigh them you know that's one thing you see it okay that's only truth the rest of it got dicey okay how many fights most important thing most important thing how many fights zero everyone in this place got zero

75:25faced announced that nobody got fights in this place you've been doing this for years so okay here's the code zero fights means two or three one two or three fights meant six to ten god forbid anyone ever said they had five six fights anywhere from 25 to 100 will will this is the world that I lived in for five six years took them every Friday every drove down to the Bronx and got them a smoker every week and so you figured out the code after a while but you're responsible for these kids who you wanted every tangible thing you could have so again if I wasn't sure how much think I was lying that he was lying a little extra why would I go to Nelson you know this guy no but talk to Pablo talk then he'll alright you know the guy no yeah he's stay away from no fight you know because I'm not taking a chance but then when you get to the point where you don't really know then I would just you

76:48instincts come alive you protecting your kid it's your kid it's your kid as much as it's paternally your kid it's your kid I remember one time I went up to the guy I couldn't get enough info I went up to the guy brought Nelson as an interpreter because he didn't speak English I said listen I know what we do here well I'm telling years I'm not putting my kid in but to get beat up if it's fair it's fair but I'm not putting them in with a kid that's got thirty 40 fights my kid legitimate legitimately has two fights I'm telling you I know we don't do that here but I'm telling you that's what he's got if your kids got 44 tell me just tell me and say no fight and and I'll shake your hand and that's it we're good so he kept he stood to his story so we get close and I'm thinking I'm thinking I'm thinking and I'm watching a guy warm up cuz always told me what's the guy warm up to

78:04fight I mean I'm a pretty good trainer and even with our fights I think I teach them technically what they need to know before they get to experience but this guy was beyond that I mean you know this was Sugar Ray Robinson so I go back to Nelson I said bring him over here again ten minutes before the fight so bring him over he again comes over or a little bit of an attitude so right everyone's got attitudes in his business he said hey um listen one more time I'm just wanting to tell you not threatening you but I have to tell you this you told me he's got no fights whatever to fight whatever when the bell rings if you got over on me I was wrong you were right soon as the bell rings I'm gonna see it I'm gonna know it there's nothing you can say afterwards to say that to explain it I know it and I'll stop the fight if I have to because I'll protect my kid and

79:16right after I do that I'll be coming over to you that's all I'm gonna say so please please for you for me please if it's if it's if it's what I'm saying please just just tell Nelson you don't have to tell me just tell an Elsa when I leave here that we're not gonna fight Nelson came back to me four minutes three minutes two minutes later said he said no fight thank you tell him thank you tell him thank you that's the world we lived in there but we got it done we got it done no Jo we did we really did and thank God that someone like you was able to understand that there is a big difference and that you can you know these guys at sandbag like that yes it's very very common and and yeah and see they think that they're gaining something because they just want to somebody yeah yeah and so but let me tell you something my kids I mean like when when we first started fighting it

80:29they had bongo drums this high I I mean my kids had never seen bong I didn't see bongo drums that what am I saying but they were this high they were bound and it went a ring they only came out you know when when we when we got ready to fight and they're playing the bongos and you know great music I mean really was you know but you know what when you're hearing that Bongo music and you're in the ring and you're talking to the kid in the corner and they're outside now with the bongos and they're playing the bongos and you're talking that's an atmosphere yeah that's different that's real experience that's experience that's life experience yeah you know what I mean yeah yeah that's not taught in the classroom and and my kids after six years of that because that's about how long we did it know I was up there seven years training fighters for us so I'm telling you my

81:25kids grew up they go that they will go on to be pros and did they go on to be Olympic sure now but they took that and they used it to be better at what they did in two the confidence to do things they might not have had the confidence to do without that experience I got a couple of them that a state troopers I got a couple of them that had teachers in high school I got a cook you know all different things a couple that went to college that nobody in there in the history of their family ever went beyond high school and but they went to college and they were kind of told they've you're never gonna go to college they went to college and I'd like to believe it had something to do with that you know and um I a lot of people asked me who was you graded because I had Tyson too that you know he became one and um I remember it was funny because when I would put it down like I said everyone

82:23lied about the experience but you know they lied about everything but I would put down a you know the age and everything else all this stuff for what it was worth you had to have something to try to believe in right and then figure it out from there so Tyson when I first had him he was a hundred ninety pounds not the bum also 12 years old okay that's what he was but that's what he was I mean that's what God made so free so I go down and I put first fight nobody's seen Tyson nobody's ever seen Tyson but twelve years old zero face okay now you go too far you like more than us you learn a lot from us is it thanks that's a compliment Nelson that's a compliment I mean I take it I guess it is right right I'm not like 12 years 190 pounds please please please no I'm not lying okay he's 12 years old it's gonna be 13 soon but he's technically he's 12 years old okay oh come on

83:38I said I'll make you feel better put down 17 thank you now you tell the truth I taste that 17 but I knew what I have and all like I said I know what I had so I fought a 17 year old I wasn't gonna fight no two of you well that wasn't gonna happen right plus I get arrested for murder so Oh what was he like well physically mentally weak but physically what do I mean mentally weak not weak for the average guy but but for fighter he still have remanence he still had residual stuff from his upbringing listen you wanna know the truth about the guy I mean you heal others but he used to hide in between a band building walls in Brownsville was a rough place no doubt about it didn't have a father whatever the mother whatever and he he used to hide between walls to not get picked on and I believe when you do that you never get outside of that wall to a certain

84:46extent you're always hiding in that wall for the rest of your life that's just my belief that is Ana Teddy what are you talking about it became heavyweight champ some people think he's the greatest I'll bet girl I don't have this record in front of me and this is gonna blow some people crazy but what are you gonna do I don't have this record let's just say we're gonna make an arbitrary number because your man's gonna pull it up but let's just say it's 50 and 6 I would say 555 but whatever I think his record it's truly if you're gonna be this and we're not truly in life with anything but if we're truly truly in an absolute world which we don't live in but I would say he's Owen five all right now everybody says everyone who's listening to you think is just like let me get with teddys drinkin like I don't see him drinking nothing but he probably had something before he came in to me a

85:48fight is not a fight into this resistance to there's something to overcome something to overcome otherwise it's just an athletic venture it's an exhibition I think life is that I think that you don't know if a lawyer is a lawyer in two and two there's something to overcome in the courtroom something goes for okay I know he's a lawyer I know he went to I get it nobody has to tell me that but he ain't a lawyer he ain't dad until everything goes wrong the judge throws all his crap out and he's he is effed so to speak and and he figures and he still handles it then he's a lawyer a doctor's not a dachshund - he opens up this kid a kid it's just like he's got it home and arteries are bleeding all over the place and and in it's not in the textbook it's not in the frickin textbook and he got to do it and he got to figure it out and he got then he's a doctor then he's a surgeon at that level

86:52you you're not you are not in a fight I look I admit it I equate life to a fight I do you're not in a fight and to this pressure resistance overcoming something otherwise it's just an exhibition Tyson's talent was so great his physical ability his talent was so overwhelming just like somebody's intellect to some body's charisma whatever beauty until it came to something else but his talent was so superior that the other stuff never got tested he was blowing guys out and he had never got tested if there was anything in the warehouse so to speak there's anything inside you never knew and then five times whatever the real wreck it is five times there was resistance five times it became a real fight five times there was something to overcome and he failed in all five times he was only in five fights in his life and he's owned five I'm sorry sour grapes because we know my history

88:06with him right am I am I am i capable of that yeah I'm human yeah but I can honestly tell you that I I took I try to be better than that that that I have called many fights where the people in the corner I couldn't stand them I had no respect for them but if they if they did a good job in the corner to fight it did a job I'd talk to about them like they were a yourself like they were Angelo Dundee because that's what it was supposed to be that's all and it's selfish because I don't want I want to have I want to know and I want my kids to know that I can be better than that that that it's it's about it's about the code of the profession it's about you it's about you believing that what you say is should be honest it should be what you believe it shouldn't be tainted or or influenced by lesser things that that it does represent you does represent your family it does

89:14represent where you came from it does stay you know you blurt it out for those five minutes or maybe two hours on ESPN but it stays someone can go back to it you could go back to it how do you feel about it it does mean something it really does it and so I'm only saying it because I would say it about somebody else in a way that I calibrate things the way that I evaluate things that I don't think that you know crap about somebody and to their tested you don't know they're your friend you don't know if they're good wife you don't know if they're good girlfriend you don't know crap you think you do but until they really tested you don't really know and Tyson when he got tested when he had to overcome something when when he didn't run them over like like one of those big monster trucks running over a Volkswagen because he was a monster truck for Volkswagens yeah he was he a was and was

90:17he wanted the greatest punches all day yeah yeah could he punch from either side of the plate like Mickey man oh the greatest which era was he that and by yes he could punch evenly great with either hand from either side was he all those things yes was he is great an Intimidator Sonny listen yes was he a great finisher like Joe lose to a certain exact yes but he wasn't a great fighter because great fighters when the fight came to them they found a way to do what they had to do he found a way to disappear they found a way to show up yeah show up he found a way to go and not show up and look you could go talk to psychiatrists and you could go through all the reasons why though hiding between a wall when he was a kid yeah that's part of it I tell you another part of it to be that not to be the power puncher not to be the aggressor not to be just those things to

91:27be the Titan to be the Viking to be the samurai to be the warrior to be those things has to be inside you you have to believe it you know a lot of times people lie in life this certain place you can lie you know sometimes we say that the ring is the chamber of truth you know it sounds good and all that but it is because just just like in other places in life too when the moment comes for those kind of serious things you have to feel like that you say that you're the Conqueror your Alexander the Great you all those things right okay word sounds great makes good sound bites probably bring more people to the TV but when the moment comes and you didn't intimidate the guy that didn't work okay we all try it to a certain extent right probably yeah I'm sure you've looked at guys certain ways when you were younger and and you'd purposely looked at him in a

92:31way to invoke a certain kind of action a certain kind of result from them just just look at him in a real serious way that you hope that it weakened them yeah and but because I know your background you were prepared to do what came after that but some people aren't some people aren't and Tyson wasn't as great as he was I just said it he's great guys that hate me force today your hero or whatever your favorite guy was he's great just not great in this area and when that moment comes you have to that's where the truth matters you have to believe that you really that guy and if you're a guy that hey listen he was convicted so I think it's fair then raped somebody okay now listen I wasn't in that room and I don't know a lot people don't think okay but he was convicted or but I know enough people in the business that there was a lot of other bad things that

93:39he did that it's just not things that that you would probably want to hang around with somebody if you know if you're a halfway decent human being that he did double week things okay week things so when you do week things and you know you did though and I don't know what I'm just saying you do week things and you know they will week things and now you got to do a strong thing how do you become strong when you know that you did those weak things and you know that's really you and you got a guy across away from your name Levant the Holyfield that doesn't give a about how hard you punch doesn't give a crap about what a finish yeaah doesn't give a crap about how fast you put your punches together he wants to find you're gonna have to make him a believer by doing it and doing it in a difficult place because he's gonna make it difficult because he ain't gonna cooperate when

94:30that happens you gotta feel like that person and when you don't feel like that person you got a problem and that's what happened it wasn't a matter when he bid is here wasn't matter that we hungry it was a savage and he was from the should stop the crap there's a way to get out because he knew he wasn't that guy and when you're not that guy guess what do you have a great talent off recognize when somebody is there as you greatest talent he can recognize when somebody is and he recognized that Evander Holyfield was and I was his way to get out and he did so that's why again it's not sour grapes it's really not because I'm more selfish than that I really do care about what what my reputation is and whether or not I've been honest about things I say doesn't mean I'm right but means I believe it I do care about that I do and so it's not that doesn't mean I'm right

95:45but it means I have a reason to believe I'm right for the way I've lived from what I've seen what I've experienced in the business the human condition how strong it could be and how weak it could be at home he was a strong guy who are you ever gonna see but he was as weak a person as you ever gonna find that's intense but I see what you're saying in terms of you are judging it by the highest standards possible you're judging it in comparison to other champions you're judging it you you what else you gonna judge it with Joe yeah of course well you look at guys who are known for incredible heart and their ability to come back like Diego Corrales deal Corrales and some of those wars when you would see would could steal yes that was one of the greatest fights of all time the far is incredible greatest fight of all Micky Ward or Toro Gary the first one right not the second third to

96:49first the first unbelievable unbelievable I mean know if you want to go back if you want to go back farther people will know this but Bobby Chacon was involved in a lot and unfortunately he paid the price okay yes but Bobby should : in the 70s 80s he was involved in those fights every other day yeah you know I'm just kidding but he was invited to many of those fights yeah and unfortunately you don't know about Bobby Chacon you talked to somebody again I'm not like the baseball thing you talk about the average guy Bobby sure called who the hell is that who the hell's that our force is the guy that wouldn't know his name anymore but he was a pretty special guy in that ring he was pretty damn tough tougher than most people there's guys that unfortunately relied on that toughness right yeah like when it comes to guys known for incredible Chin's that can be a detriment yes and it can be if

97:49that's all you have yeah do you think that's what you have cause she used to put it this way cuz she stood up because he wanted me to be a great trainer so coach used to always be with me all the times you know say anything and cuss would say dang got two tough guys okay got you now what stuff it's a prerequisite to being a fighter you better be tough but one level so all levels degrees yeah I got you but how special is being tough because if your fighter you should be tough I got you I'm listening so you got two tough guys but one of them is smart taught developed that's him he's tougher now that's how he explained the tougher because he's smart yeah tough yeah and smart he he goes from here he's here because he's not just dependent only on toughness so he's tougher than this guy right because you don't have to depend on just that right you might not even

98:59have to get to it it's there's a reserve it's always there to call on like an army you call on you need it right but he's not dependent just on that isn't that the balance though is knowing that you have it yeah knowing that you have it and there never did see what you just said yeah you have to know that you're it yeah Tyson didn't know he was it will you ever met that naughty probably knocked me and say this it whatever I don't it's okay and so I get I it's okay well there's certain people that you can't question and the Evander Holyfield is one of those people that's why that fight was so fascinating because if I feel was he is a 100 percent warrior oh he had to write nickname most um don't most um don't have to write fight nickname in whatever they do right but the real the real deal he was the real deal yeah and you know why small anyways we want to know why I mean trace it back

99:53cuz always told me this but I learned it innately on my own too but trace it back to the parents trace it back to the background tracer trace it back to all that stuff trace it back he did he didn't live up to something he didn't face something he didn't do whatever was there was support he had a mother that he talked about a few times and I'm sorry event of I'm not saying exact but but it's it's there that and a great mother obviously but she they had her the crew up in Georgia think it was a lineup of whatever suburb of Georgia and she you have definite age you know different time down south and all that had a little I guess a little shack in the back with thing called twitches switch switches I'm sorry I'm twitching switches and she basically had different sized switches you know short ones long ones medium ones depending on the occasion and when he didn't live up to

101:04what he had to tell the truth whatever be accountable okay face what he had to face whatever she had a switch for him and you know what it um it formed him because he face things Tyson Tyson on the other hand and listen did he ask for it no no he didn't ask for that uh premium I get it but I know people have that upbringing and they get to a point they can they could make a left turn instead of a right turn it's your ability I think there's also the the overwhelming hype and celebrity involved in Mike Tyson is prime it was probably so difficult for him to even understand himself yeah but but what he did understand and I'm glad you said that right backwards what he did understand what he didn't understand was there was a way out Evander learned there was no way out hmm you know throws away a you know what I mean right yeah somebody would come and pay yeah and he did a lot

102:14of things before he became champion and somebody was always there with a check or cash or whatever and and would absolve them from it would would not have to face what he did right and and but there was a switch that banned the hats of his face and that's what made him what had made him and that's what allowed Tyson part of would move out Tyson you would you look you make your own choices at a certain point in life so does not make too many excuses but it is part of it that that he was formed by what he was allowed to do when he shouldn't have been allowed to do those things and that was one of the issues that you had with cos right yeah the youth felt like cus was ignoring his own principles and teaching because this guy was so special yeah coz was getting older and cus recognize he didn't have much time left and this guy had a legitimate shot at being a

103:04world champion because everything in his you know everything in the world of boxing success and everything he was great he was special cause his whole life he didn't get married for a reason because he was married to boxing as he said that it wouldn't been fair I mean it was a different guy that it was boxing his whole everything life was boxing and lessons were connected to boxing everything and principles boxing and so there's a you know this is a guy that his whole you know you use that word legacy but really his whole existence was boxing and for him it was heavyweight champs he had Floyd Patterson youngest heavyweight champ ever that was close that was close wasn't about lightweights listen he had lightweights he had welterweights yeah Jose toys light heavyweight champion exactly right he had other guys too but it was the heavyweight champion of the world because it was around where

104:04we talked about before when box was the biggest sport bigger than baseball and it was the heavyweight champ of the world was Babe Ruth Rocky Marciano and that and you're gonna say that before you leave this earth that you have a chance to have another heavyweight champ that might be the best could be one of the best ever and could break Patterson's record which was part of the plan part of the plan when Custer was alive you're gonna break Patterson's right he broke it he became the youngest heavyweight champion and so when you float that out there with if you will and and tempt a guy with that even a great guy like us some things are gonna be pushed to the side and he thinks ya compromised and he did do you think if he didn't do that the Tyson would have been a different person I'm gonna use his words that was told to me by a great promoter Mickey top he passed away

105:05it was close to Jim Jacobs who's close to cause and he was up there sometimes after I left and all that and Mickey wanted me to train all his fighters and he was a great promoter Mickey he had great sayings he was a very witty guy but he was a sharp guy boxer was his life too and he ran everything in London with three partners one of them was Java system who owned Wembley Stadium so they were powerful they ran everything they were the cartel in London back in those days he told me that before cus died that cus had said some nice things about Teddy Atlas but he said and look I know there's a danger that this can be convenient you know what I mean self-serving crap sometimes you gotta trust whatever I was told by Mickey that he said that Teddy Atlas was right away it was wrong was he was gonna get in the way of the possibility of making a great fighter if he did things

106:17his way as far as the disciplining in the you know whatever he in other words whether he left it like that so I don't know so I know what I think it meant that Tyson wouldn't have been around if you did that if you discipline though he would have left I don't know because I don't know that he had those options because he was a ward of the state and you know he was coming out of obviously a criminal situation he was coming out of her juvenile detention center called Tryon up outside of Oh 30 miles outside of Albany you know so I don't know that he had but basically that if Teddy did it his way he was right but he was wrong because it would have ruined the possibility of a great fighter and I couldn't let that happen so I don't think that's I don't know if it's true actually I don't know you know what I was about to say I don't think that's true because of course it's me right I

107:15want to make myself feel good so I want to say you could add the best bolt who could have maybe a better person or within the realm of a better person right boundaries right there were no boundaries maybe there were those boundaries would have made a difference right and you still would have had the talent he was so evident Allen wasn't gonna dissipate because of the discipline you know that you put on him as a human being that wasn't gonna change but because because for saying that it wasn't gonna happen maybe you lose him maybe he goes to someone else at a certain point in his development maybe that's what he meant I don't know well you had that with Shannon Shannon Briggs yeah shadow brings came from Brownsville and he was I had him as a young you know developing Pro that we got to a certain point you also had that situation with him what you felt like he

108:03wasn't a hundred percent in he wasn't doing the things he wanted him to do he was he was lacking and a certain amount of discipline or he was distracted in a certain amount of ways that bothered you to the point where you didn't want to work with him anymore it wasn't committed I didn't think completely but he was a smart kid a particular kid talented talented very talented smart you know he knew how to market himself he had two dreadlocks and he made them orange and you know nobody was doing that back then and he could punch it was talented and he looked good you know yeah um but his real commitment I didn't think because and maybe in the tutu is credited he had others he was smart he thought of other things but he never really bought in that was the end almost boxing that that that was the complete I don't want to use just a average same standard word commitment right like what

109:09two figures that sometimes like commitment but more than commitment he said all the right things because they had investors and they had different people instead of bad thing everyone they if you talented enough you draw those kind of things to his credit he deserved it he did something to bring investors and peep to back em but he got so used to saying what they needed to hear that he never knew what he needed to hear he never heed and what he needed to hear and believed was that I'm really gonna do it he got so good at selling it that he never got good at buying it he never really he just thought that I ride this train until a righteous trained - might fall off or tool comes off to the track or - comes to a stop but it is gonna come to a stop and I'm not saying everyone can have that confidence everyone can have that belief I'm not saying that but you have to get

110:14it somewhere sometimes he didn't believe that the train was really going here he believed that it was just gonna go to a place where it was gonna be better than where he was and that that have righted as long but he he's not committed to staying on it when when the when the turns come up and and it gets a little fast he doesn't believe that he's really gonna get there he believes that when that first turns second turn third turn whatever on the rails comes that that's gonna be it but it's gonna be it took him better place than he was at it earned them some money it got him some things and and it was good but he never really there's that word committed but he never really believed and and a lot of people don't they find their way along the way but he never believed that what he told the people around them that he was gonna be he never believed that his personality was too good his

111:15personality was too sharp he he could say all the right things and became easy to say the right things then to believe the right thing does that make sense it does make sense this uncompromising psychology of combat sports its uncompromising philosophy is this something that you got from kostas is something that you inherently understood it from working closely with these guys and taking them to these smokers in the South Bronx and where does this come from just raw honesty seeing it all listen that comes from again you don't wanna be corny but it comes from living a certain way life was seeing things traveling through things as part of it definitely but the the articulation of it the blueprint the map of it the seeing of it the visualization of it on paper comes from cause he was a genius he was deficit of it that's the better way the theory of it comes from cars to

112:19living the doing of it comes from my father I had a father that most parks and people don't come from although Barrera did great Mexican fighter but he came from something like that he was he wanted to be a lawyer actually but anyway and you think Mexico you think why he came from the you know the the dirt floors and the stuff which a lot of guys come from and you know they pull himself out and that's part of the obviously the motivation but my father was a doctor it was a GP practice 55 years standing on New York he came from the Bronx Santa he found the two hospitals he built the house for twenty two beds and was called Sunnyside some I don't know if that stuff even existed in Google back then but anyway with Sunnyside hospital and he built it so that old people might listen he tilted so poor people he was he grew up very poor he he just he wasn't that kind of

113:25hours because I'm but he just he built his hospital so that the less of people with less could get hospital care because back in those days there were no HMOs there was no Obamacare there was no you know whether you think it's good it's bad it said it doesn't matter there was nothing he wound up in a clinic maybe you got unless you had a doctor that that took a and he was and while the doctors he wasn't the only one but he was the only one I knew and he founded Sunnyside hospital for twenty-two beds and it lasted about 25 years and so the Verrazano Bridge was built as the city put the highway in there had changed that down obviously fit connected Brooklyn to surround you didn't have to take a ferry boat and he the city border from and anyone and found that doctors hospital with sixty other doctors but he was the original founder him and a guy named dr. Tim palm senior he founded

114:29doctors which was a bigger Hospital lasted 30 years it was a big Hospital but so he was a guy that he didn't waste time telling me how to live and how all that stuff the only thing I remember was say something do it what does that mean and then I watched him as a kid he was my hero I mean I like Mickey Mantle and I like cholos you know all those things and just like any other kid but if I had a hero I didn't know what a hero was am I gonna make believe I knew but I know now what it's supposed to mean right so he was my hero and I just I watched him you know when I went in his room one time when he will he graduated NYU they didn't have money so he had to get scholarship yet can't help from different thing whatever they had to do but he got he went to NYU Medical School NYU undergrad and any intern the Bellevue of which that's he wasn't a big talker but he told me he did tell me

115:40when you graduated Bellevue you were ready for anything so later in my life I took that as the South Bronx he graduated the South Bronx to small coos you were ready for anything you learned there you're ready for anything you learn how to matchmake you ready you learn how to be a trainer you're ready for anything so he you know he came he I did knock on his door one when he was but he was interning a belfie of young guy you know apparently he saved some obese woman's life that had a heart attack in the street he dragged her off the street whatever the you never get the whole story but he saved a life and he developed a hernia and it grew into a double hernia and my father was the kind of guy he didn't let anything interfere with his patients his work he didn't take time to get it so he carried it for 30 years and he finally got it you know and so become a double hernia

116:40I know hernias now they do the majendie two ladies in there but that in those days there was a more serious thing it was a vase of surgery it was different it was and it was painful apparently and I I didn't knock on the door as a young kid you know very young I still remember and there was a mirror here and he was over there near his bed when the mirror was here so I opened the door I didn't knock should I knock obviously and um I saw he was bent over in pain I mean I could recognize and he was wearing the thing I had no idea it was like I didn't know what the figures that but it was a probably not you I probably need you again to give me the proper pronunciation thank you for but it was a trust I think it was Russ suck his guts yeah and you know I was like I don't know what the is that you know and I could but I could see was in pain and he had this thing on and he

117:46got mad told me to get out and um for the rest of my young life I knew there was something wrong I knew he was in pain every day and he never showed it he never uses use he worked every day including Sunday his office hours were a joke because if it said on the thing you know 4:30 he stayed to 9:30 because he didn't leave to the last patient left and most of Mormon pain you know he took the patients that other doctors didn't take took all the Medicare Medicaid whatever was whatever the right one is basically welfare he took all of them and you know he made the he had the biggest practice on Steinem maybe the biggest in New York so all the all the all the drug salesman they they all migrated to his place you want to get his account dollars to sell the new stuff to sell the drugs to sell the pills and he used them he didn't hide it but he made them he made them

119:01give them huge amount of samples you know why because his patients couldn't afford to fill the prescriptions so we would give him the free samples I used always wonder what the free court he said I know how to open up a closet there was like things falling on you you know like pills and stuff and like what is hooked and but it was so he could give it to them so they didn't have to fill a prescription because they didn't there was again there was none of those things that pay for your prescriptions that they do today and they couldn't afford it they couldn't afford to go to him but he charged him three dollars five dollars whatever whatever it was that they could afford and you know he made money I mean he was a doctor but he didn't make the money that other doctors were making but he was a real doctor all right for me at least and but more importantly he didn't talk about it he

119:59did it and he every day he was in pain later on well I was a little older but I was still a young teenager I saw him put a white pillow under his tongue I didn't know what the Freak that was and later on I found out it was nitrile that his hardwoods would skip beats but he still didn't say a word didn't talk about it you know if he didn't have a son who thought he was his hero he I wouldn't have known because I looked at everything he did and he he he did house calls he did house close to his 80 years old charging five dollars whatever nothing he had patients that could not get to an emergency room they didn't have the ability to get there they didn't have a call they were in shape where they couldn't get there couldn't take a boss whatever but so he did house calls and the patient's when he died they all said hey Lou you sometimes you had to wait till 1:00 in the morning but he got

120:59there that was the thing he always got there he always delivered and with all those things that I knew as you know as his kid he never used that made an excuse and he was a fighter you know and in the own way he was you know he was the best fighter of his saw and he didn't talk about it he didn't articulate it you know he didn't wax poetic about it like custard and coz was a great man but he did it and he did it right in front of my face and and it stayed with me you know I didn't understand a lot of it's who I got older but then suddenly I understood all of it and um so if somebody says hey you know I can't do this because you know last night my girlfriend my wife yelled at me and she caught me with a girl and she did I mean I don't want to hear it I don't want to hear it and listen it was occurs to me to in some ways it's not perfect because when my father died I

122:19went to the I went to the funeral and then I went to the gym and then tell nobody and listen I probably shouldn't a lot of people would probably say you can't live your life that way by what people say I get it but I'm just saying I'm aware of it all right a lot of people who said you shouldn't went to the gym my father we lost a kid he was five years old and I wasn't gonna say this because I don't know some people say but if it is it is right so you could take it the way you want to take it I know the kind of man he was but you talked about commitment absolutely as you talked about certain things right maybe this explains some of it we had little Todd he was our brother he was born with with problems who's you don't use that word anymore but in those days it was okay to use that word that's what he was okay now of course you say that it was impaired mentally impaired whatever okay

123:18it's a beautiful kid I remember I was older I was the oldest he was very loving I remember you used to jump into my arms when I come home so I know he was very trusting Weiser because I would walk up two steps and he would jump from the steps if I didn't catch him obviously would have fell so it was part of his condition but it was part of his lovingness and his his trust so when he was five years old he had to get surgery he had a problem was heart his open heart surgery opened also to his old different story back then right and where did he get that operation yeah he did it my father's hospital but father did not perform the surgery of course that you're not gonna do that but he was there so as a few surgeons might have been five whatever was and um my mother was the opposite of my father was a Hungarian Jewish background you know he had no father he died young his

124:18mother they were very poor my mother grew up poor too she was Irish I was Catholic Dafydd mix and my father didn't have time for religion my time for that time for living and for healing people so he led of us be brought up Catholic that was up to my mother and so he they were different they were the opposites my mother was beautiful she was miss Staten Island her mother didn't let her father died also young her mother was a tough Irish woman and she my grandmother she she did not allow her from winning mister now she was supposed to go to obviously to Miss America she wouldn't let her go I'd say right out she thought that was for like like you're gonna do that you know even though she wanted she led that was cute but now you're gonna go Miss America you're gonna go No yeah we're not she said no you're not doing that and she had a chance to go and try out for the Rockettes which most

125:22people didn't know what they are the dance group in Radio City Music Hall no that's for those people told no so she was beautiful and she had a great personality and she she loved social life and she was the antithesis of my father in a lot of ways and I guess opposites attract and if you want to make a movie out of it she was sick he she wasn't getting better and my father was in the hospital he was in I guess his patient was in the tool room whatever whatever then he became a doctor and I helped her get better she had a form of hepatitis back in the days when you didn't get it from needles only he could get it from eating a bad clam whatever I don't know if receive whatever it is I'm not gonna tell you because I don't know for sure but and she was very sick and anyway he he took care of her and they got married they fell in love and you know all that stuff so you know just um

126:39my father was like I said my father was he he he was dedicated to to that life but the thing that he did that I started to say and then I wanted to give that background I guess but my life my mother was very emotional my father's a doctor he hid his emotions and when Todd went for surgery he died on the operating table he had told my mother my father never like he told it the risk but my mother wanted believe what she want to believe my mother said you said he would be okay you know he didn't say that but you know but of course my mother my father was high he a little too you know made her better can't make his son better so he died we all got split up I had to live with an uncle that was single and it was a very handsome guy just so he had girlfriends coming in and out all the time and you know he was a and you know he was young good-looking guy and liked

127:57to go out and I wind up sitting in a ball waiting for him I get a lot of bags of potato chips a lot of cokes you know he finally come back I have eight cokes in front of me maybe ten you know and we got split up my mother was sleeping in a cemetery she had a nervous breakdown well you know she got herself together she overcame it but um she never forgave him you know and um you know she was Irish and then the easy thing is the Irish curse and all that stuff but you know she drank but um she she's a great woman but you know she was tragically hurt and you know everyone copes with things differently and she it was it was difficult and that day with all the what I just described and again I'm always afraid to say it but you say it because it's part of it right maybe it explains maybe maybe some people hold it against him when I say this but he got a phone

129:15call that day on his answering service you didn't have pages in those days he had an answering service he told him to call him when he had requests for house calls to in the morning as a kid I used to hear the phone ring it was 2:00 in the morning I I started getting dressed I came out and I was on the stairs waiting for the call Hey look at me what were you doing I'm going with you no you no get back and all you know sometimes you let me go with him and anyway this day obviously was a different day and there was a his patient his patient's daughter had a child who was very very sick she did not know that her son the mother knew but the daughter didn't know that his son died that day that his son was buried that day I should say so she call he went and did a house call on a day that is you know that his son got buried you know that's tough but that was what

130:25you know that's what his you know that's what his own so when people tell me that they can't keep a commitment because this happened it doesn't go with me that's all and that day after I buried my father I went to the gym and I trained Michael Morra because I was you know that's what I was doing that was my job character real character I mean whatever it is it is but whatever it is that strength you know call it whatever name whatever noise you want to make there's not a lot of people like that that explains a lot explains a lot about your unyielding understanding and appreciation of real commitment yeah I mean I mean that's that's yeah that's and it's humans don't have a choice you know because to not listen you just do it but to not follow that in some ways it's it's like you're not honoring your father because your father's leave you certain things you

131:49know they leave you you know something the well maybe they leave you whatever they might leave you a special trinket of something that you always remember call a little thing whatever but they leave you something if you're fortunate enough to have a father I know not everyone is I get it but when they leave you that you gotta you gotta cherish it you should and that's what he left me so to be it's not that I'm a good guy or a bad guy or great guy or that's a good or anything I'm not I'm not any of that but I'm loyal to that because you should be loyal to that that makes sense I mean you know I'm loyal to that idea of loyal to that living a loyal to that that just that stance that he took and living his life that belief that you know principle of living whatever you want to call cold or whatever you all those words that make it you know sound better but he I

133:13would feel that I by not doing it that way when you're lucky enough to have a man that kind of taught you what he taught you without talking too much um and that might be the greatest teacher was by seeing right examples of it but if you don't honor that then you're not honoring your father what he stood for and at the end of the day I was pissed because for everything that he did there's not there's no I know this sounds foolish but there's no statue of him and so and for me there should be something because he did it his whole life you know we all have moments of of light of moments of where we may be worried about what's what's there when we're gone and where we're going and maybe we change and I've seen it I've seen it with friends I get it I understand but where we start trying to live differently because we we start wondering about what's coming next

134:28when we're gone that's whatever you you know but what's there and so we start thinking about that a little bit maybe I've seen people influenced by that I have you have to I'm sure and he was never influenced by that it was just what he was he was that his whole life and the only thing that I could think because I try to put pieces together a little bit of what he how he got that way and all I know from people when he died you know patients come up to you they're great they want to tell you something you know and they they told me you know that they will pull on the neighborhood and everything neighborhood called Mariners Harbor down by the water in Staten Island rough place you know and um they told me that his mother was a tough woman she didn't have a tough woman and Dave was three sons you know and they were originally from they weren't born they were born here but she they

135:39were from from Europe you know and they had a just you had to be with the mother the mother told them what they had to be she told each one what you're gonna be the oldest was my father like I was the oldest and Eugene you're gonna be an orthodontist he became an orthodontist very successful rattled you gonna be an engineer Boeing aircraft unbelievably successful lived in Seattle Theodore the oldest huh favorite you know you're not supposed to have a favorite but it's real right you have favorites you're gonna be a doctor my oldest son you're gonna be a doctor he wanted to be a builder he wanted to build he did both he built over 150 hours on sat on he built different things and how the did he do that he did it as he was a doctor how did he have the time he bought yet contractor you know guy that didn't but he he did that because that was his passion well

136:41he did but nobody oh no she was smarter than him she was smarter than anyone he was supposed to be a doctor he was one of the greatest diagnostic doctors ever I know it's my father I know the whole thing I get it but he really was you walked in he knew what was wrong with you there was a great again we don't know like the Babe Ruth thing we don't know the complete truth to it but there's a great legend every story that a guy walked in he had been to Mayo Clinic he had been to John Hopkins he had been everywhere he was dying that's all they knew he was dying losing weight falling apart dying and nobody could diagnose him he walked into this place where he had to wait five hours to see him because the line was out the door because he was had all the poor people and and there was cigarette burns and all the rugs and she was like where am i but when you got to him you know where

137:32you are and he went there somebody sent him they went there and my father made all the patients leave and he gave himself in an injection that's the legend every story and I asked him about it and I was a name I couldn't tell you the name whatever he made it real simple he said because he knew I watched movies and we all watched movies and we all heard things from different times and he said back in those days it would have been called leprosy it was some kind of cancer and I guess there was a contagious part or whatever and he got everyone out of the office and he diagnosed the guy gave himself a shot he gave himself a shot yeah yeah - I guess I guess so I guess so I mean that's the story right and um he said to me though the only definitive thing I know about that story I know the main oh you know similar but was that I bragged to my father you're smarter than all these other

138:34doctors and he said Norma and I said but you found it in these other place big Hospital big problem I'm not a big Hospital pink eyes phos bigger problems I said what do you mean they have to do things fast and with large numbers I don't so they have to it has to make sense some things don't make sense that's what he told me he said so this particular thing they're smarter than me they knew the characteristics of the disease they knew the symptoms they knew that it fit in here but that hadn't been around for 40 years in continental United States whatever he said to me but I remember was something like that it hadn't been around for 40 maybe it was 60 but whatever it hadn't been around so they move right past that because they they had the goal is a big hearts but all they got to go quick said I don't have to he says it didn't make sense to them because it was around 40 years but

139:37he says if it is almost like if walks like a duck and quacks like a duck maybe it's a duck so he just stayed he could stay with that they couldn't stay with that and he stayed with he was right and he did a lot of things like that he was famous for that he was famous for people coming from Brooklyn coming from an ad and coming over there to see this diagnostic genius in this little basement office where people walked of out the block like they were waiting for McDonald's or pizza and um and of course Lester McDonald's to a certain extent you know because if you're getting out money to in charge you're like I said but he but he made money of course but he didn't make the money of the and he was I tell you a great story to be to have a nursing home maybe this explains him the best to have a nursing home you had to have an open on stand on it I guess anywhere in New York you had to

140:40have a doctor whose I'm signed on as the medical director the problem was they couldn't pay because the nursing homes won't really make it money so you just had to have a doctor who would be there none of them really wanted to do it so my father was a medical director and just just bear with me I'm gonna say of eight nursing homes might have been five might have been nine so I would go with him on house calls that's how I hung out with him so I go with him on nursing homes so of course he didn't get paid he was still directed but he figured if he was that he'd never told me this but I I think it's okay to say it he figured if I'm gonna be there I'm gonna go see the patients I'm not sure he didn't have to but he went once a week and he went into each nursing home and I went with him when I was with him and he saw the patients so there's one day we go in and

141:32he's like he gets treated like royalty I mean he comes in the staff comes running out from all the nurse stays they all come on Diana you know and it made me feel good I was like wow I'm with the man so I'm following him around we're gone down the hallway and he's very humble he really truly is that word is overused but this guy was beyond humble like director thing would go this way that needle I was ridiculous he get mad if you said something good about him so they all colleagues right hey hey you have two charts yeah come on so he's looking at the charts she changed his medicine give him a hundred mil you know the typical stuff that I know from watch and dr. Kildare was so right so he's looking you know and he's doing his thing he's going third I'm following him around how old I was but young ten eleven oh no so I found all of a sudden this woman you ever see I don't know I

142:41jump around with these things but you ever see the movie it was that comedy guy that was around back then and and he did like Bride of Frankenstein in detail Brooks yeah it was one of his movies and the Bride of Frankenstein the white hair was all like yeah well this woman was the Bride of Frankenstein she comes running out and she was the shelf and she was like half nude and and her gown was falling off and she's an older lady and her white hair was like that and she comes running and she's yelling incoherent and screaming and they jump and they jump when they start putting straps around there I guess like it's old white coat I guess right and apparently she was tied up to a bed you know obviously back in those days they didn't know how to deal with see now people the way you know was a whole different thing I mean what took a years ago and so they

143:36had it tied up and she got loose and her gown was falling off and she's and so they jump upon her head tying her up and I'm watching this woman get mugged in the nursing home that my father's the medical director of I know of a sudden he said leave a lot and he's still looking at his charts he's not like hey yo leave although it's okay she's fine she'll be all right she calmed down she was a little you know nuts but she was nuts right right hey that's not fair that's yeah it's okay to say it's realistic and she comes over to my father she says hey and he's right and he starts walking she starts following now I'm a kid so I can figure it all out the way I could later right but she becomes his assistant basically she's following him around and she's going to room to room and she's see I think he gave her if I remember correctly he gave her like the thing

144:50that you write on the bill boy you know the thing yeah clip boy to hold so she's holding the clipboard and she's looking like she's making believe she's reading stuff and I'm like looking at the scene like you know but I'm a kid like I haven't seen all the movies yet that I can compare it that this is this is out there you know what I mean this is freaking nuts and and she's following around she's looking at the thing and I think she's like saying yeah yes yeah and he's going and he's he's basically not even paying attention each tooth every once a while I said let me out there and he's doing and all of a sudden and this is the part again just like the other thing I think about leaving it out but if I leave it out it's not the story it's not the story because if I left it like that it's a beautiful story but this is a beautiful story in its own way because it is what it is it's real he's

145:50in front of her and my mother was I described as she was his gorgeous beautiful woman that like good things my father could give her crap my father had ink stains exploding in his white shirt pockets my mother would go crazy he went to Kmart I don't know if you remember came on he went to Kmart and bought his all shoes for $4.99 each maybe 399 plastic shoes and my mother was buying him leather shoes he never worn them if he knew what she paid for him he would win nuts waste waste for what that was his that was him so he's got these plastic shoes and you know he's got the inks blow up in his pockets and everything else and my mother would always get upset always mad why do you wear those shoes I gave you but he'd that's what so he's walking in front of her and all of a sudden everything changes the woman goes he's not a doctor see she flipped on him can you imagine

146:58is she gonna after being so great too huh he's not a barely gets his attention still walking he's not a doctor everybody he's got holes in his shoes I looked down his foot goes up he's got a hole in his shoes socks sticking out of the shoe she was right he's got a wholeness freakin shoe and his plastic shoe he doesn't care she he can't be attacked he's got holes in his shoes now he turns around he looks at her I'll never forget this he Pat's her on the head says you're not so crazy Pat's her on the head just like this and not in a demeaning way like you might think you know what I mean right really he touched her on the head and said you're not you're not so crazy turned around took the Billboard and kept walking she didn't say another word my mother was freaking embarrassed and mad because I told her story when I got home and of course he would never tell it and I said

148:15you know dad you know I said it like a kid would say all right you know this lady he said you know he's got holes oh my god you know Jesus you know right didn't mean anything well that makes just this your description your understanding of your father just makes so much sense now summer sense of who you are why you why your principles are so rigid why you're intolerant of any just makes so much sense as a fight trainer and as a guy who understands fighters as a commentator it makes so much sense that you you have this just unyielding need for a hundred percent commitment yeah I mean it's just don't listen it doesn't make me a better person or anything what to say but I don't have a tolerance I don't have tolerance for the BS right because I know it to be BS right you know I I say to we we were running these gyms in law for the last I knew 22 years I've

149:28listened when he died I started the dr. Alice foundation again there was no statue okay so I really I went to a Supreme Court judge who was a friend on satnaam because I used to be in front of the judge that's when I was young in a bad way and you know because I got myself in a little trouble stupid you know but I got to the right place that's what counts right I think and um but I always got a kick out of it that I could hang out with the judge and I didn't have to be in the court to do it you know and I didn't have to be standing like in front of them I could be on the side of them like so I got a few people together and I started the dr. Atlas foundation to 22 years ago and uh we've grown you know quite a bit but just a little grassroots thing but it's grown we probably give away and real help we have one paid person and one office that's 1,400 a month that's it

150:36so no administrative costs other than those and that's it nobody gets salaries just that one person and all the money goes to the cases and we probably give away six hundred thousand seven hundred thousand a year but direct help we don't we don't give to the you know we don't give to March of Dimes we don't give it to them we don't give it to you right space like a Red Cross we give it directly we've we they come to us now because we were out there towards extent where people all know but they come to us they have a kid with cerebral palsy needs a certain bike the bike caused 1500 hours bang boom got the bike we've got another buddy needs a machine that circulates the blood in his legs it goes 25 bang you got it obviously we we make sure it's legitimate we research it we do that we have a board we make sure drill we do to make sure it really Israel because you do get people to take

151:44advantage a little bit but and we do it we act on it because my father never made people feel less when they were poor or when they needed something that was the greatest thing he did he never made them lose more than they lost already their integrity never never never he never made him feel he didn't Shaw I remember one time it was Christmas Eve what was I hanging out I was a kid I was in a I was at my father's office because I wanted to be with him and it was Christmas Eve and it was late and we were still in the office and a woman I remember she was a Spanish woman she came in she has six kids and and she was nervous and I remember watching how nervous she was I was like even though I was young I was like she's really nervous and I found out I learned about human behavior I learned about what it was and I'm watching her and sure enough she was getting ready when the last kid

152:35got taken care of she was gonna dawn out of there she didn't have money and the poor woman she was she she had to take care of her kids she didn't want to do that but she was gonna run out of there because she did not have money and he recognized me thinking um I didn't know what it was so I'm not gonna say I thought it was smart but I recognized something all this motion all this nervousness and it wasn't normal he recognized it all and before he got to the last kid so he wouldn't embarrass her so she wouldn't run out of there and do that to herself and lose something more than she lost already he said this one's on me and the nervousness went away she said there's no charge today he said there's no charge today and I don't know if she spoke English but she understood it and he made her understand it and there was no charge today and soon as he said that everything

153:32changed everything changed she wasn't nervous she wasn't looking at doors and she she cried and she left and when she left the place was packed because that was his office and all of a sudden he talked to himself a little bit just just for a second I mean he didn't do this on right you know but he just like sense you know wasn't like that you know I wasn't thinking of course he wasn't thinking he didn't know it was Christmas Eve Brian so he turns to me and he gives me a mission a job he takes out his and he gives me a $50 bill he says go find that she's probably on a bus stop I ran out that door like I like I was given a greatest mission in the world I felt so proud I could I when I knew where the bus stop was I was gonna run all of them but she was at the first one down on Bay Street right around the corner down block two blocks and I she there and sure enough there she is on the bus

154:44I went up to I said the doctor said gives you this and you know she looked at it she you know she she couldn't you know she was shocked but she she started crying again but I felt so good because like I felt like it was part of it you know yeah and so I started this foundation and I said you know I needed help I said look we're gonna do what he did no red tape no loose and you have pride and people that fall through the cracks that's my father he was he was he had a PhD in that all the people fell through the cracks he took care of more I said we're gonna take him the ones you know much good this week great organization but to people out there no not in a bad way but did you know like 87 percent goes to administrative course and like 4 percent goes to research these people don't need research in their life they've told me that I know it I recognize it you know what they need

155:44they need a wheelchair you know what they need a handicap ramp you know what they need they can't some medication paid for you know what they need the utilities to be kept on when they're being shut off because they can't afford you know what they need they need the back rent paid because someone got sick and one of the people working there had to quit the job and they were gonna be put into a shelter with six kids so we pay the back rent we paid the utility cost we pay the cancer medication we put the wheelchair ramp up and we do those that's what we do and um research ain't part of their life it's great that's hope it comes so we could close all these places down and I'll close mind on first but right now they don't need research they need that they need help for their way of life now for the quality of life for that kid now so that's what we do how could someone

156:37donate to this if they want to it's the doc that was said I'm real bad on website stuff I'm like a caveman but it's the doctor Atlas foundation www.osho.com yeah and um seven one eight nine eight oh I'm sorry it's okay seven one eight nine eight oh seven oh three seven one person seven one eight nine eight oh seven oh three seven seven one eight nine eight oh seven oh three seven and so doctor Atlas foundation.com yes there and donate I'm sold thank you yeah this is a beautiful conversation man you know not just about boxing and I think this this like I said it speaks so much to who you are and why are you who you are and why you won't tolerate any yeah it's like when you've seen a guy like that it's kind of yeah it don't make sense are you still working with fighters you know it's funny um no was the word into a few minutes ago - a few minutes ago well I'm saying a few minutes foot into

157:51a week ago maybe less maybe five days ago I've I've decided to train a fighter he's gonna fight for the world light heavyweight title December 1st against the second hardest punch in boxing unfortunately was he wasn't enough it's gonna be I think it's on Showtime I think I don't even know because I didn't even find those details out when they asked me to train them first I was saying no and then my kids said that at least give it a chance so I would flew out to where he is in Oxnard California to meet him his name is Alexander he's a he's a Ukrainian Alexander vozack I learned that you don't pronounce the G it's vozack but it starts with a G he's 15 in all 12 not God he's fighting the second artist puncher in boxing donors to Stevenson in Montreal Waco it's a tough fight um they asked me if I would train him at first like I said I would say you know 20 things the hardest

158:49puncher box wadda wadda but the old times would say he hit you on top of the head and Frankie ankles that's hard and the second hardest puncher in boxing left hand South Pole on top of it and um when I flew out talks not to - I said if I'm gonna say I'm either gonna say no which my kids asked me not to so I said then I got a fly out and I gotta meet him and when we had lunch with him in the manager - you know anyway I'm sitting with them I don't know what they are for sure you know the manager I knew for a while in the business but for sure you don't know - you know and um I wanted to try to find out so their thinking was like you know you here to find out things it's probably tomorrow in the gym and those we watch tape so those are the things but so I said to him right out I said well you have to see one thing first if you're a decent person and they were you know they were

159:51like that sounds you know maybe different you know because right you know what I said I just want to of UT super because I don't want to be around their people right I just want to be around and there's bad people out there it's the way it is but I don't want to be around bad people I never did but now I definitely don't I want to be if I'm going to spend two months it's not easy in camp I want to be around someone I feel good about being around and so that's the first thing the second thing is do I think I can help them that was the second thing yeah and can he be helped so when you go to talk to someone like that do you watch a move what do you do well his family first thing I did I wound up meeting his family he's got three young kids and he's a husband and of course and I see a decent person and then I'll watch film and I see a guy that has ideas that need to be added to that I

160:51think that's the best way to say that good ideas technically what they need to be advanced they need to be added to polished polished added to yes yeah and take him down the road a little bright and um I see a guy who behaves like a fighter that's where it starts for me besides being a decent person he behaves like a fighter he got hurt he got dropped in a fight he behaved like a fighter you have to behave like a fighter so be a fighter you have to be a fighter right and um well you would know that better than most so he um and and there's one problem every fight he gets hit at least once really clean you can't do that with this guy right he gets hit more than once but he gets hit clean you know I one time I said to a fighter when I was trying to Bradley actually was I said did you religious yet I am in my own way I said listen I'm not into that I'm saying I'm just using it as an

161:49example my way of saying I said I was brought up a Catholic I forget half the things they told me but I remember about they'd used to teach you I'm probably pronouncing everyone I'm gonna need your help again but venial sins and mortal sins the venue are the little ones you can live with you don't go and see the guy who that's read the mortal ones you got a problem I said the way you box you've you make immortal sense yeah the Vinodh sins don't mean crap well you're making mortal ones you're getting hit clean unblocked clean solid punches that sometimes you don't even see like the provodnikov yes yes yes yes so I said that's gotta be corrected right so we corrected it so how do you correct something like that you know what it is right you have to know what it is you have to see wise getting it but you get a change and you change the technique give away everything there's rules you

162:47gotta is its life it's real work with a guy like then you only have two months how much change can you affect in too much oh I work with Bradley for the right Rios fight and he and he couldn't stand in front of the guy and he went out and he moved around the guy and you know we were fortunate right we did okay we made some change but I mean things like I give you example rules rules rules simple things like where do you throw a punch from yeah okay no don't throw a jab from there because if you're too close it could time you were right in everyone heard jab it's the beginning of things jabbers - you know it leads to good things it's a great punch yeah it is it's a terrible punch and so it's a horrible punch if you throw the wrong distance you throw from a little too close bang you get who were right in know where you throw punches from left Toki true lover he got hit with a right

163:38hand with provodnikov he didn't all he knew was he got hit but he didn't know why you threw the left hook in front right hand is there boom get on the side throw punches from certain positions not allowed to throw punches unless they're from the right position now you have to cuss would tell me you have to go over and over and over and over again till they can't do it wrong if they wanted to it's gonna become a habit okay you're not thinking about it well it's a habit and that takes a lot of work and that takes understanding what it is and it takes a lot of work you got to be on them every time and it takes a guy that can put his ego in the pocket that's why you want to know do I have a good guy here to have a decent guy because you're telling a guy who's already made it to a certain level without you he has and now you told him this thing said he don't know

164:36so he's got to be willing to be able to accept that and um one of the things I like people that are unselfish and local all selfish to a certain degree but again it's degrees how tough are you degrees I won't fight is a tough degrees how to how selfish are you degrees run and I the whole understanding was I would go to Oxnard for eight weeks you know to train them but maybe I don't want to go to Oxnard but I'll go wherever I think it gives to fight it the best chance to win the weather the time zone but the main thing why I'll go there he's got three young kids I'm not in a Rocky movie I don't want to take him away from those kids for those eight weeks right that's not good so how many so I took two weeks to decide to them he kept calling a manager he's a good kid he is and he kept calling the manager up and saying did you hear yet and of course he hadn't so

165:42he's thinking like a good person or like I shouldn't say good person he's taking like a person that wants to get what he wants again but at the same time here's where the good part comes in or the south flat spot he says if I have to go to New York I'll go to New York a lot of fighters don't do that they want help but they want it on their terms right he said if I have to go to New York I'll go to New York if I have to go to Montreal go to Montreal please tell him that that dad spoke to me that I had this kid that selfless to that extent today cuz it was training him before um I don't know the name but it was a you know he's a guy he's 15 and all but but he felt like when you know when he got dropped in a fight he went back to the gym immediately that should be dealt with you know right but it was back to just basic training again rather than not specific you know doesn't mean that the

166:41guys that good doesn't mean it's just that he everyone deals with things differently that's all I mean doesn't make me this or that but I just can do it the way I do it and I do it I look at from when I went to see him I had couple pages written out already on things I saw on film that he does wrong that he would have to correct and the one thing that he has to correct for this fight would be good if you don't get hit I mean that'd be a damn good thing but the one really thing is you can't keep coming back in front of the guy and a certain this is giving him a shot at you when he can punch like that and that's one thing he always wanted some localized right back in front of the guy and there's got to be other options mmm other places to go right you know I joke around I used to fan you know different examples of different analogies I say listen whether he had a

167:36mother grandmother aunt somebody when you were growing up told you don't hang out on the corner right yeah why because nothing good can happen right well don't hang out in front of the guy right nothing good can happen can happen so we go from there you know it's a lot more two weeks English well yeah he does he's a smart guy he's got a beautiful family and like I said it's and so when do you start because December 1st is the fight I have to make a decision I have to it it's either gonna be an eight or seven week camp I'm trying to feel I'm trying to find out by asking questions how quickly his body gets in shape because I know it sounds funny to the average guy out there but if it's a week too long it could be bad yeah you know you know yeah so and he's over trained in his career yeah so I wanted to try to try designed exact science to have a feel for to be

168:33age of seven weeks do you monitor their heart rate right I have so we have that stuff that we do that right to see yes but you know what I depend on P I'm not gonna be stayin he asked you I depend on my I write more than any three cm so on down it seems struggle and the trick is to not get there right to try not to get there right and we'll see it what do you do you tell them take but but I try to see it before I see it what what I mean is if we had a hard day of training I will just automatically give him a light day or maybe off the next day right and like a lot of people won't because they're afraid right you gotta work gotta work right and and but I learned not to be afraid of that right so if I see he had a real and he looked great you know what take off tomorrow are you sure take off tomorrow so we don't get there right to try to kind of like my father like preventive nice I

169:30said this is a new way of thinking though it's such a smart way thinking because for the longest time everybody just wanted to be tough yeah they just wanted to work harder but you got to work smarter yeah you do this is more you know that saying but but sometime but it really is sometimes yes sometimes but sometimes not just some people are lazy and they're looking for that easy way out you have to gauge that you have to see it you have to know what you got a you know what I mean and sometimes the real discipline driven guys are their own worst enemy in that regard yeah it's pushed too far yes and this kid has been again I'm not here to say it was but the kid has been in that place right and that's why they're coming to me and look at it I know better than anyone but I I will understand that so when you were when you're saying seven weeks or eight

170:11weeks so either one it's either gonna be so my first day it's gonna be a Monday so the first day in camp in Oxnard will either be October 8th or October 15th October 8th we represent eight weeks October 15 seven weeks and that would mean I would fly in on a Saturday get myself settled Sunday watch tape with him and then start Monday was a structured schedule you know would the ability to change at any time because again guy you see right you know I remember years ago I was training fighters you know I've been around 40 years already I remember in Gleason's when I moved to an ugly since you know many years ago 30 whatever was maybe more 35 um so Gleason's was in Manhattan it's in Brooklyn out but it was a man it was the place you know and it was two blocks from essence quarkon it was kind of cool you know so I'm trying to find and I remember I was the first guy there and not

171:12dragon enough but I mean just I would make my guys drink water and the old-time guys they pick guys not because they knew it from scientific ever to say other than it was passed down to them it was taboo it was just passed down to them don't drink water it makes you weak you know you gotta be tough don't wriggle so I was making my guys not only drink water drink a half a gallon I mean drink a lot of water so I remember some of the old-timers would they be like talking about me they'd be like it's a fix this guy you don't drink what don't follow what he's doing because some of the fighters would say I drink some water and get a little that water and and now they give you cramps it'll make you a you can drink now don't give you cramps if you drink a lot so my very cold in there yeah you could go but no if we hydrate you it allows you to stay strong try to drive a car cross the

172:04desert with no water in the radiator you might have a problem you might yeah and and and but I'm Tanya and I'm not sure I was tougher now but I'm saying at that place the thing was nobody drank water spit it out right and I was making my guys drink and right in front of me but you know though what was the difference I knew by learning I knew my father my father um talked about the importance of water far you know he was proud I was training he thought it was gonna be a lawyer he went a little different but he was proud that it so he would talk to me like he was like I just got it too osmosis if that makes sense I just I know I know in the water result I knew it was important that you had to rehydrate yourself and yet you had to my father had a thing with water too my father would make my father guy evolved to my training in different ways like if my fighter was feeling a little weak or

173:06he had a cut and he was healing from the cut my father would say set him down the ocean why dad we're not taking a fake a part him in the ocean I said alright okay let him go in the ocean let him so kiss his scar whatever you know his car let him soak it in the Oh and don't go to Coney Island thought that might not be good but that might not heal you but I had changes they might change you might be green when you come out oh he got something going on with the Hulk but um no but so no he would tell me in a serious way he said city send your fighter if he's a little if he needs to be revitalized a little sent him to the ocean that would swim a notional it'll be in the Sun and a little soaks of whatever cuts healing an ocean and and if he happens to swallow some water it's okay because there was no one wanted to swallow the seawater right the worst thing in the world

174:07my father said it's okay not the worst thing so one day I guess I got around to asking him why he was so into sin of my fighters to the ocean and he told me is he just that's how my father would say things he would just tell me things and that's why I would learn and he just said to me ocean is where all life came from all life on earth started in the ocean microcosms whatever you want to call they didn't get into all technical stuff but he said it started in the ocean and it came out onto land he says our percentage of salt in our blood is the exact same percentage per cubic inch lookyou begins you know whatever was I'm just was insane and probably not close to what he said it but close enough is the exact amount cubic inch as it is in the ocean we come from the ocean all life comes from the ocean go back to where life came from that was enough for me

175:01mmm my father was telling me anything my father told me that was it so I said all right so a matter of fact he told me his story I remember I was going out with a girl that had a little baby that had bollocks and he told me he said and he was serious he wouldn't say it otherwise but he said send it down he had a condominium in Daytona Beach and he said send it down and Daytona Beach let it stay there for the summer and let her boy be an ocean in the Sun vitamin A vitamin D way know that and it was straighten his legs out yeah his legs are get straight they want crazy you know but you know there was a cook in this to him his legs are good straight and and he was right because if I being in the ocean by being in the Sun vitamin A and D healthy of course I guess part of it was the swimming and part of it was the ocean and part of it was the Sun but it was

176:02straighten his legs now looked at he need him to the point where you had to put braces no but once there was a slight issue was the initial yeah it was a traumatic no but did what he say work yeah was it right yeah you know but we just think of braces you know obviously and um but yeah and and it would heal he would say let the cut go in the ocean the saltwater heals the cut it will heal the cut well a lot of fighters used to soak their face in Brian yes yeah well Joe Frazier did yeah did that really keep you your skin tough and protect you from cuts or is that all old wives I think that that's a little bit of that old stuff you know where we don't know right but they believed it and so you know you smell like a pickle when he was when he was following to get hungry in any hit you were love talking you know about other controversial training methods like weightlifting for the

177:02longest time was thought taboo taboo yeah Holyfield the Mac ISIL stone yeah Mac ISIL stones training or Holyfield moving him up from a cruiserweight to a heavyweight are you true and he was a very light heavyweight at the beginning right cooze away yeah we really essentially was and they just packs a meat on them Michael Spinks with yep that's right Michael Spinks was really the first yeah when he fought Larry Holmes yes yeah and Macke she'll still worked with Holyfield after that that's right yeah listen and Gleason's I'm gonna go back to Gleason's the epicenter you know yeah to place no water no weights right I got I've used to have my fighters to weights if I felt if I felt that a fighter wasn't physically strong enough I put him on a way program but I do it myself I would there were no straight coaches back then but but just a common sense program just

177:55three days a week you know eat protein and of course you have to replenish yourself with the proper diet and all that stuff but and do it at the right time in between the training where you're not killing you see overtraining right you know go spar and tire that's right right you don't have the separation of workouts but if I had a slightly built guy that I taught two things and the second one is one where probably sounds a little that you wouldn't wouldn't normally connect to it but the first thing was if I thought he could physically be a little stronger not that he had to be fighting inside but when he did fight inside because let's face if your fighter you're gonna wind up in more quarters you are even though you say well I'm gonna live on the outside okay until that day that the guys lips should jab and again now he's living in the inside are you ready to live on the

178:42inside for a minute so I believe that so I would make my guys to weights if I thought physically they could get help and improvement in those areas but I also did it for the psychological reason I I felt that it's all psychological battle at 75% psychological mental and if you have to do anything you can to help to fight her in that area anything anything grab anything that's if there's something floating over your head I'll grab it anything and the mental part if if you make them feel stronger he'll be stronger if that's something that that just gives him a little iota more of confidence and belief now listen here's the here's the catch-22 maybe you don't want the guy fighting inside maybe his style his make up is to fight I get you because if the smart guys out there listening I'm sure there are they're gonna think that before I said it yeah I still want to feel strong okay

179:40I'm not gonna make I'm not gonna make a guy that should box like Pannell where to go which a box like Muhammad Ali I'm not gonna let him make him fight like Jake LaMotta I'm okay with that but I want him to feel stronger I want him to work on weight lifting would you have them do because you're do you have a background in lifting weights yourself no no other than I played football so I was around it and I've been around gyms my whole life and and fitness people all my life so I understand the plyometrics I understood all the advancements all the new stuff that came out the bands that you know that hey listen you gotta remember there was a guy named Charles Atlas that that started with resistance training he was somebody kick sand in his face and his comic book right and you know I don't know he was related or not but um but you know he did isometrics I

180:33believed in isometrics I did isometrics for the whole camp with with Michael moral for the Holyfield fight believe it or not really yeah I used to put my hand here and I used to make him push against my hand both ways that I can push too I would design all kinds of different exercises and ways to do it where I just gave him resistance with my own body sometimes push against my shoulder Brian you know be careful to joint you won't strain in the joy you know all common-sense stuff yeah but so we this is something that you thought of yourself you were trying to figure out how to do it and then you just implemented it yeah yeah this is something that uh Michael Moore man when he was a light heavyweight was a murderous puncher murder murderous boy oh boy whoa he was dangerous he was so scary but though it seemed like the weight cut was too brutal yeah it was brutal

181:24and um he was a terrifying light heavyweight yeah he was forgot about him they forgot about him as the light heavyweight he knocked everyone out just murdered I don't think he went to distance with anybody he was murdering peace yeah he was really something yeah and first heavyweight first southpaw heavyweight champ of all time first is that true yeah Wow Wow yeah better be trove insane I'm sure it is I didn't know yeah no he was you got a good purse yeah he's like all of us we get lost and we get confused all of us but he's a good you know you good or you're not good right yeah he's you you want to hear crazy thing some people might I hope they don't whatever I hope they don't take it the wrong way but anyway it's meant to be the good way I have a friend a very close friend I hate politicians I think they're phony but I have one that's he makes a living a

182:27politician but he don't live as a politician that makes sense right he served both presidents at down his name is Jimmy Hollow and um probably cold crazy if he hears this put anyway it's okay it's a little crazy anyway that's why we get along but he's a good man and like my father was born to be a doctor he was but his mother knew it he was born to be I don't want use the world politician it seems like a dirty word I later yeah a leader a camera of people all right a public servant maybe whatever but anyway so he's the bulb president was that known and he he really does things and um anyway we're close and he just gave his ninety four thousand dollars for the foundation like a week ago he does that he finds the money and you know he knows or he says it's the greatest compliment he cuz I know where it's called I know it's going and um thank you he says to me and so what do

183:29you think me for thank you I can't help these people without you you know I get other help we to fundraisers and we do things we do a big dinner thousand people week before Thanksgiving when we have people like Tony dancer and Phil Simms and Bill Parcells just to come he don't come no more he don't leave Florida anymore but but um you know we I mean Patrick Ewing to gamble Mutombo I mean we're blessed were blessed with Rosie Perez she loved fun yes she loved I mean we were blessed Brandon Marshall from the Giants last year they they come and they allow me to have a successful dinner because they come and they don't get a sense because nobody gets her scent and um so with all that in with Jimmy so anyway I have these things that I just say sometimes so he caught me one time but I was just saying it I didn't realize that it was going to just you know because it's just some you

184:30know so I just said it's a people bed so he said why I said well because what'd you say I said no you know words to live by people bad Sarge O'Connor but I said people bad so he said what do you mean I said people bad he said but you helpful you're in the business how I said there's good people too so anyway about a month ago two months ago or whatever he comes up to me and says you gotta think I'm out of my mind I said well no I know it but for what what's the matter he said with your permission I want to take a domain which I barely know what that means copyright the nitin phrase people bad and if I told you I wanted to start a business with you and me and the proceeds some of the proceeds will go to the foundation which so shorts would do that and you have these different sayings so to start with people bad resiliency good people bad forgiveness good people bad be better people bad

185:39parks good people bad you know Redemption good people bad let's be better you know whatever but the whole idea is to be unapologetic and to say we got a problem I don't know if you want to say we're at a tilting point but we got a problem admire social genius no am i insane no but I get kids I care about what the world is you know maybe if I didn't have kids that still care and I have grandchildren now I have two of them they're beautiful and you know what it's not bad people out there I'm not apologizing about saying that there's a lot of great people there's more good people but it's it's like drawing a battle line a line of resistance really where I want to call people out on it I want to remind us that we could be better I want to remind us that people bad selfishness worse and I I just wanna to he brought my attention to it because I used to use that phrase so

186:52frequently and when I was mad and he said let's turn your mad into something better Teddy that's that's because I know would you stand for I know I know that's why I give you what I give you twenty two years so people are bad but they they're good they're good that's remind people that we need to be good that's remind people that's call them on a crap that's that's freaking say hey we got to be better we got to care about the right things we got to stop getting caught up in our crap you know and we got to be stronger people bear don't be weak you know but in other words were using it to remind people that sometimes we're going in a bad direction we are look at the world look at that you know when I was flying here I was reading the New York Post do you know I want people think I'm weak or something but I didn't want to read some of those stories about

187:55some of these kids that got killed there was a story about a parent that someone at a hospital in Manhattan that decided to slice up a bunch of infant's just ran through the hallway of this this place was for Chinese immigrants that they go to this place when they are young mothers where they think it's a safe haven for their children to be there for like a month and so they're infants two days old five days old ten days old and they're all and it was all Chinese immigrants and they're all in there these babies and this woman walks in there with a knife and starts stabbing these kids now listen I know a lot of people out there gonna say Teddy that's psychotic that's different I yes yes yes it's evil yeah there's evil in the world yeah but I'm just I'm just calling to arms I'm not the guy but I'm just saying in my small way calls arms that we can be better that just remind people

189:00that you know what we have so much promise there's so much to be grateful for in this country particular in the world but not always and we have so much here let's be better if people bad that's helped them be better let's lead the way to be better that's that's that's take a stance so we're gonna I don't know how the freak we're gonna do it but we're gonna start this company people bad but then we're gonna have all these inspirational if you will but all these positive positive positive things to say that to remind you that you know it you could be anything you want to be you know that old saying you could be anything you want to be but some people choose to be bad it's choose to be better and so we're gonna do some the some of the proceeds go to the fact that I don't know how the figure would probably whatever it's gonna but we're gonna figure it out he's

190:06gonna do it all because I only know boxing I think you know more than that listen Teddy this has been three hours I'm sorry Roubaix sorry it was great I really appreciate you being here man Wow I know it's actually a little bit more than three hours and thanks for it was beautiful Thanks right really really appreciate you you sure you Teddy Islands ladies and gentlemen