Russell Brand & Jim Breuer

00:01I know you guys are banging to your coffee and we're live you jumping into swamps in English royalties homes you got to be very careful this how I like to be introduced Jo you got be very careful when you get into those sort of predicaments who knows what's in there there's a beheading around every corner once you mess with the Royal Family's private swamps yeah especially if you're doing it for some sort of a psychedelic purposes you're trying to like Elevate yourself like freezing yourself in their cold swampy Waters freeing yourself if you're embarking on a journey of personal Shamanism on royal territory yeah your life's in your hands your your your life could trivel up as quickly as my sex organs did in that particular predicament definitely an added element yeah it is you have to consider it it's not a place to go for Pride but as soon as I like yeah as soon as I sort of

00:52submerged in it that's what like you know because even though it is just in this case just an example of me a Man simply jumping in a cold lake and I do have a tendency to over poeticize the mundane experiences of me everyday life but why not what else are we going to do while we're here uh it did make me think we are living on narrow lines narrow train tracks of existence never to have heard myself go oh God an animal noise I'm capable of that so sort of almost like an anti- orgasm like a negative orgasm if you would repeat what if you would before what you said before you got on camera how it represents the subconscious and that going into the murky depths I thought you'd like that that mate yeah what it is is in fairy stories myths and religion the person if you're not into him already you I reckon you'd well love is a man an American Scholar called Joseph Campbell who was a

01:41cultural mythologist and he studied various religions and folktales and found corollaries and comparisons and consistencies and sort of said that where there are consistencies there's truth if there's some Icelandic myth and it's telling basically the same story as some African story or some Native American story or some dared Celtic folktale why are human beings dislocated all over the world coming up with the same stories coming up with the same experiences well often in these stories the forest is used as the unconscious not only is the forest represents the unconscious often in mythology and you know when a character has to go into the woods that means you've got to go into yourself you're going to have to go into new territory and also under the water similarly also represents unconsciousness and what's interesting about an AO is like not only ancient

02:26mythologies and old stories but also personal dreams if you yourself have a dream like this is where the work of Joseph Campbell intersects with a worker Kyle young that dude he like he notice that people in their personal myths that Joseph Campbell said dreams are private myths myths are public dreams in people's personal dreams they come up with images archetypes and stories that can also be found in fairy tales you know just someone asleep goes oh I was just walking and I went into the woods and I met this old woman in the woods and she told me that everything was going to be okay and then she put up a hood and when she took a hood down again it was my mother's face it's like people are inventing their own myth like it's the the cuz of course all culture is created by Consciousness so on some level it's in us it's in US individually yeah Joseph Campbell's work is amazing

03:14and when when you do look at all the different stories and how they coincide and how how many similarities they share it is really interesting to see what what are people trying to accomplish with these archetypes like what are they trying to sort out cuz it seems like that has to be something lessons passed down to children lessons passed down to other people so they can learn things without having to experience the woods themselves but then there's also some sort of archetypes that they're sort of defining the reality around them in a very similar way all over the world I suppose what I reckon Joe is the more diverse our culture be like you know it's weird isn't it because we're experiencing on one level globalization and homogenization where culture through like corporatism is coming uniform throughout the world but also there are many many many desperate experiences but

03:56on some level as human beings if we're anatomically as similar as we are perhaps it's safe to assume that we're psychologically comparably similar like you know even though you and I are sort of different type body types or whatever and look sort of at a glance kind of different we're both ultimately got the same organs we running in pretty much the same way well perhaps we have the same psychological palette so throughout the world people are H everyone's having a very similar experience of being human the anxiety of not being good enough the fear of death constantly looking for something in the outside world that's going to solve the problem that's going to answer your questions and like in a lot of these ancient texts that I've mostly got at through Joseph Campbell or you know Hinduism for beginners that's normally my entry point I like you I'm an autodidact self-taught person that's

04:42one of the things I like about your podcast is I can you can hear ID is a person educating themselves and continuing to educate themselves through life well like one of the things that I picked up in that is like in them very very ancient text there are people that the same way as in our like in our time that's defined by science and technology there were times where people Define themselves through meditation and experiences in in in Consciousness like those people that wrote say the aanes shads whoever the hell they were these rishes these ancient Indian yogis that went into deep deep meditative States and came back with mantras and truths those people are as diligent and as fastidious as a scientist in a laboratory that comes back and goes well look we've you know we've broke down you know Watson and Crick breaking down their DNA they come back and go this is

05:27what it is to be a human you are going to die you need to get you need to come to terms with the relationship between your contous self and your material self that's the for me that's the stuff like that's the conversation that I'm into and that's why whenever I find it whether it come from Joseph Carell or KL young or even checking out this podcast like a lot of stuff Handcock gra hancocks that always it presses something deep in me that's what I'm always looking for you know Joe there moments where you think that shudder you get of ooh there's truth in there you know yeah well those paths that you're talking about those paths that are carved in that we we we sort of normalize all the experiences that we have so they look totally uh totally sane if you just stray off those paths and jump into that Lake and freeze your dick off and get out and and you just

06:13why did I do that why you broke your little chain the little chain of programming that's going on in your brain you did something completely unusual and sometimes just little things like that little deviations off of that path will take you into a completely different place are you still doing that kind of thing in your life now yeah sure yeah all the time like with like with whether it's the cryo Chambers or the isolation tanks or the experiences you into iesco and I haven't done iasco but I've done a lot of DMT what yeah I'm the DM is the more potent shorter lasting form obviously I've read accounts on it I've never done it I've read I'm I'm in recovery allegedly things can be arranged if you're in recovery the problem with recovery is you know uh if you want to maintain complete and total sobriety the only way to allegedly have that experience and apparently uh it is

07:08possible is through Kundalini and but to according to people I know that have done both they've B done DMT and they've also done Kundalini it's virtually the same thing oh my God that's can be reached yeah you just have to be completely dedicated to the Kundalini practice and you have to go to a very specific State that's achievable once you you have some Mastery over the the the meditation and the the the yoga principles I've done a fair bit of that calini I've got Bang into it in fact this tattoo on my four finger here it is an illustration by Kyle young of the cundalini serpent the energy that rises up your animal energy can become the coronated serpent bloody H getting that tattoo done and I woke up in the middle of the night severely regretting it ow my finger why why did I do that it's mostly because Mark Mahoney the LA tattooist I became sort of somewhat

07:58besotted with him cuz he would kind of like some sort of living skeleton Elvis ceman he was so sort of charming and enchanting I kept getting myself tattooed just so I could sus him out he appeared briefly in that film black mass that Johnny Depp film I don't know if you saw it about Whitey whatever his name that movie yeah he's he has a cameo in the beginning of that he sort of got a blue Rin over his head he's a sort of a fascinating guy and a literal you know artist a proper tattoo artist people of you know he's F he's tattooed like gangster crime overlords uh you know presidents everybody he's done sort of like a lot of people but he's got a very easy way and sort of a gentle kindness he told me this story once God I wonder if you mind me repeating this in the media world when he used to be an intravenous junkie he was in New York City and he's like wandering along on

08:44the way to a party and he saw a homeless fell doing paintings and he sort of thought oh man I'll get those paintings and he bought these paintings off this homeless guy and then he went onto this party and then he went and shot up in the bathroom and then he heard a flurry of excitement at this New York party because Andy warhole the great Andy warhole was was arriving at the party and warhole came upstairs and he said he could hear like the acolytes around warhole and he said he's just banged up and he's getting a hit and his eyes are rolling and he's like feeling fantastic and he hears warhole outside the room and and Mark Mahoney had left some of his paintings out there along with the works of that homeless guy and he he's warhog oh my God that's amazing like looking at this stuff and he goes wow look at me I'm the coolest guy in the world says Mark Mahoney I'm laying here

09:23banging Up Smack in a bathroom War holes out there digging my work and of course when when he went out it was the homeless guy stuff the war ho was into yeah he's a man with an anecdote or two I love that guy your coffe is good mate I'm buzzing my tits off I've only been here 5 seconds I don't even know what I'm saying amazing it's amazing that it's that powerful for you this is it cuz I'm drug free for 13 years Joe and you know oh so as I was saying cundalini I've done a lot of that Kundalini and did he ever take you to a crazy place like psychedelic State as I did when I was using drugs I did psychedelics and it's I've never had that kind of like oh my God like cuz I loved drugs but you never had a like a breakthrough moment on psychedelics yeah I had that realization that what I considered to be myself was a construction and it wasn't real but like my memories and my

10:10perception and my desires are just a conglomeration of biochemical impulses that P that I'm merely a conate of pure Consciousness and that's too heavy to deal with when you're bloody 16 all my mates were just doing it at school and like you know carrying on like I like me I need to do psychedelics in a hospital with a person mon in my heart you're going to be all right I can't do it under normal condition so how old were you when you w't clean then 27 so from 27 on nothing just coffee I'm 41 yeah a lot of coffee of course I was a sort of a you know pretty committed sex addict for a decade you might want to dip your feet back in the pond so you say this J this is the the the problem is with me I don't know what your experence I don't know where your addictive Tendencies come out I have them for sure but uh where do they come out um games I I get addicted

11:05really badly to games um G yeah archery I'm addicted very badly to shooting bows and arrows be pool yeah you can shoot yeah I'm pretty good proper Robin Hood style yeah well I don't use a a recurve bow I use a compound bow like a very complicated high-powered apparatus shoots very accurately out to 70 80 90 yards but uh I practice it all the time yeah it's fascinating it's a it's a it's a meditation because there's something about when you you requires so much concentration when you're pulling a bow back and anchoring and relaxing and centering the bow and making sure everything's level and relaxed and there's no excess movement whatsoever as you release the arrow it's all this very very difficult little dance of the synapses that you're doing and in that dance there's no room for any extraneous thought you can't think about your bills your your life death you don't

11:56think about anything but no movement release release that Arrow absolutely properly watch it sink into the Bull's Eye and when you do it it's incredibly satisfying is it must be mate is there some uh visualization involved in that yeah yeah yeah you definitely and a lot of people people actually get better from not even practicing they get better from visualizing more than practicing yeah that you have to they just they just go over the the actual physical mechanics of the shot visualize it locking in but it's a big thing with competitive Target archers the visualization aspect they go to Hypno and they they really work on like a very specific pattern that they visualize like a very specific pattern of drawing the bow back finding your Anchor Point perfect release Arrow flying perfectly and in doing that they sort of condition their mind in their body to make that

12:46perfect shot over and over and over again but it's so difficult to do that even the best people up the best ones in the world in the Olympic archery they'll occasionally you know get just out of the line and get a nine or an eight and they just they don't know why they've been doing it s hours a day for 20 years doesn't matter it's so difficult that it you there's no Mastery you never totally Master it they're varable you've got to be addicted if you're going to a hit and a tist on trying to hit a bullseye man well imagine if that was your life imagine if that was how you made a living well how much you how much you making to be a an competive that's a good question I mean I know there's the Olympics right so you can get sponsors from bow companies like Hoy and companies that sell arrows and things along those lines and it's it's a it's a practice that a lot of people engage in

13:33so I would imagine there's probably more money in it than you think there is okay but yeah I just haven't seen it even at the fairs like $200 for well here's what the tricky thing is this doesn't it's not like like if you're like if you're a professional boxer you have a very specific set of skills right you know how to box you know how to move like Floyd Mayweather is pretty godamn sure he knows exactly what the he's doing but this isn't like boxing like anybody you could teach anybody to do this right it doesn't take any ridiculously coordinated athletic movements some unusual genetics some uh fast twitch muscle fibers no you just pull the bow back and you release the arrow so to make a living doing that to decide that I'm going to do something that I could teach anybody to do in a day I could take any regular person and work on their footwork there their

14:19stance rather and their positioning and teach them how to shoot an hour yeah breathing how to concentrate and relax you get them shooting fairly proficiently inside of four or five hours now imagine taking that to a level where you're going to travel the world and compete and just shoot at bullseyes for your kids food that's what I'm saying that's against a bunch of other people that are no different than you there's I know a lot of those guys I know quite a few of those guys you introduce me I'll introduce you for sure would love to meet a professional guy like that I'll introduce you to the guy who trained me John Dudley next time he's in LA and you're in La we'll make it happen he's a good dude I want to learn about that Madness what is your motivation Jimbo to unravel this man don't harm him mentally not a person who's devoted their life to hitting the

15:02bullseye you might unpick the stitching that led him to this point of Mastery don't make him feel insecure about the hypn the hypnosis session do you do yoga all man do you do like regular yoga or just Kundalini how how often you do it I try and do yoga to a fre like my exercise regimen changed not entirely unrelated to listening to your podcast I like now I do kickboxing once a week I do jiujitsu once week honestly it's influenced me my mate Nick got me into your podcast and a lot of people that I hang out with like you know sort of in the as you obviously know but even in the UK in the mixed martial art world this is a very sort of central cultural artifact and how it intersects with thinking outside the box and a new vision of what it is to be a man and living outside of sort of State ideals and conditioning you know and like it's very very I'm that's what I'm fascinated

15:54about is these new like new ways of being a man like of H of having tenderness awareness awakeness but not being afraid or indeed ashamed of the aspects of masculinity that have somehow become cleverly maligned over like the last s few Generations so like I want to may I say like a shout out to Dean Northway and Paul Busby because they're the people start telling the people that I do like shout out that's a shout out to them I felt I was ridiculed there for English that was a hate crime you saw that that's going on the hate crime list I was giving them a shout out as welll oh right no that's actually that's a great listen there's no there's no doubt that the English accent is the greatest accent that's why we use it for all Noble movies anytime there's a God or anytime you're speaking in a foreign language that we've translated to English they have an English accent they

16:45could be speaking in anything G of Thrones Gladiator everybody speaks after all of your revolutions after all of your economic success and Global Dominion when it comes to an authority figure you still well it might have come down from on heart you still can't have God go well thanks buddy it's great exactly still have a sort of sense of uh regalness yeah Game of Thrones reverence for the Regal but they're all they all speak some strange language they're in some place with Dragons It's all artificial right but yet they all speak with an English accent there's no reason why they should not be from Detroit yeah yeah why why don't they speak hey these guys are coming over here trying to our broads balls in this kid comes over here with his dragons fck shine bux and your dragons ask you to leave the court because youve really lowered the tone somewhat it's like the opposite of going

17:38off the course it's going so deep into the course that everyone's wearing powdered wigs and they're all aligning with some ancient Scrolls that they've pulled out of a jar in a cave in kumran somewhere and it has been decreed and you say everything's got to be proper yeah it's getting deep that's what we count on you guys for you can rely on us from now a time immemorial to be classy sorry for burping during that statement um yeah so like i' go do Jiu-Jitsu once a week at a level that you know I mean I don't even know if it would qualify for for the term Jiu-Jitsu at the level I'm practicing out at the moment are doing kickboxing where I had to go to what is called a Leisure Center do those words exist in leure Center like a gym Community like a community one to do my like white a YMCA yeah like a YMCA I lined up with like 10-year-olds doing like to get my white built to get on the

18:29ladder do you know what I mean I've done that quite recently and as well as that I do do yoga so I'm I'm using this time where I've I've stepped out of you know The Madness of Los Angeles The Madness of media that like you know the intensity of it you know and during the time I thought what like you know another thing that Yung talks about is the Shadow Self all that I am not I also am if you think of that like I suppose a simpler way of saying that is I've lived this life has been very focused on Comedy and the pursuit of individual success think what are all the things I've not done as result of that like when I was a kid I too shy and too ashamed to get into sort of like sport type things you know and embarrassed about that kind of thing so like yeah I've started to do kickboxing and jiujitsu and even football or soccer as you call it yeah you know like I've

19:11started to do all of those things now to start to learn about them in as an adult man well it's a it's a beautiful thing when you take chances and do things with other people that are take chancing and chances and doing new things cuz you realize that it's really a lot of it is about the the sort of acceptance and the embracing of vulnerability when you learn a new thing it's very important to learn new things that is that you right because I hear you say that and I know what that means but do you actually because like I got certain you yeah I suppose prejudices about you as a sort of a black belt martial artist and as someone who's embedded in the ma MMA world you are a person who is happy and accepting a vulnerability where in your life do you feel that you are embracing that vulnerability J well I think in every every time you try something new I

19:57I enjoy like in the archery thing like I I've only been doing it for 4 years but one of the things that I really loved about it is how terrible I was when I first started and I was like there's there's something to this that I have to figure out yoga is a big one I've been really serious into yoga like where I go several times a week at least once a week for about a year and a couple months a year and like two months or something like that and uh what one of the things that I really enjoy about it is that I'm not very good and I still get nervous before classes yeah man yeah it's weird there's something it's one of those weird places like a yoga class is one of those weird places where there's almost a sacredness to it like you you go in there and no one can leave until the class is over like they tell you they lock the front door no one comes in to visit the studio it's

20:41everything's locked in no one watches you go in there and we don't talk no one talks you don't talk for 90 minutes and you go through this series of poses that are incredibly difficult you're sweating like pounds and pounds of water off I mean I'll I'll weigh myself before and after I'll be down like four or five pounds just from one class and it's it's it's very difficult but it makes me nervous you know I I do get nervous before I do it because it has this I think it's difficult to do I think I don't necessarily physically enjoy it while it's happening but I enjoy the effects after it's over but I think it definitely imparts a feeling of vulnerability H cuz I always assume that if you were really good at this is perhaps you know because of where I come from I always assume that if you are dead good at some sort of fighting thing that that is a highly transferable skill

21:31like that and I don't mean in a practical way if you're good at kickboxing you will also be good at yoga I just mean that if you're good at kickboxing you don't give a that you're not good at yoga that's that would be that's always been my assumption whereas if you're good at yoga you know like the yoga you're not meant to say you're good at yoga but by J I'm good at it like I don't sort of like when I'm in the MMA gym start going like well you may be strangling me now my man but wait till we get to downward dog you know I sort of feel like all right like the humility in a Jiu-Jitsu situation for a beginner is an absolute humility recognize you know cuz I'm doing with people that are good and like you know they have to do it like they're doing it with a little kid you know like and I'm very aware that they're doing that you know well I think that if you

22:17get really good in martial arts the only way to get really good is to be completely objective about where you are and if you're completely OB objective about where you are and learning and trying to improve upon your skills you apply that same feeling towards everything else so the feeling that you get when you're totally vulnerable in martial arts you apply that same feeling when you're learning yoga cuz that's the only way to get really good at it the only way to to really do it to 100% do it is not to sit here and go this doesn't mean because I could choke out everybody in this room that's not going to help you it's not going to help you at all as a matter of fact it'll hurt you it'll hurt you and it'll focus more on your own ego instead of the ego dissolving beneficial properties of the poses it would ruin the ambience in the yoga studio if you would out loud this doesn't mean I

23:00could choke out in this room before before we start this class I just want you all to know I can you up so settle down okay don't get crazy about your stretching I don't know if you've read the scriptures but there is no violence actually there is quite a lot of violence but usually a metaphor a lot of hash too that was the thing that McKenna always used to talk about that that's really what a lot of the ancient yogis were about they were about smoking chillums of hash and then doing all these poses and if you've ever done yoga while intoxicated on edible the edible Variety in particular of marijuana it's a beautiful thing H I haven't because I only started yoga because I'd stopped eating edible hash and all other drugs you know like when I was the thing is with me mate is when I was taking drugs that was what I was doing there wasn't room for and now I might pop to yoga you

23:48were a Pro I was a fulltime dedicated Pro 100% that's it every day you know I can't take what was the big drug what was the problem I progressed through an escalation of drug use that could be on any Republican leaflet like I started with like kids don't smoke pot or you will become a heroin addict that's literally what I did like I you know I started with recreational drugs was unable to and the problem the reason is this is because it's not the fault of the drugs themselves it's there's a component within me that is looking to find a solution that doesn't have you see when you have that perspective on going into a place and being willing to go in there and be vable that kind of thing for me that makes me very sort of what I call Hot you know like scared like oh so for me drugs were always a thing that I trusted to make me feel a little bit better like and so when I was

24:39smoking weed it was like all right there's that thing I found that makes me feel relaxed when it became Coke and heroin and crack it was the same reason it was an attempt to nullify medicate and contend with an inner sense of disconnectedness and discontentment which I think is a thing that comes up a lot on your show in other guys cuz I think that's in some way or another we're all looking for this sense of connection this sense of completion I think in fact the thing that led me to be a drug addict or you know sex addict Gambler whatever kind of addict you are I think the thing that's driving it is this need for connection this sense that is this life cuz this don't seem right to me somehow this system you've got us living by like give me the real deal what's the real thing you're not telling me and that's why I fascinated by people like Terence mcken says like

25:28if you you know what he don't Down The Pedestrian levels of consciousness there's there's deep deep down there there's fascinating stuff there's machine elves there's corridors of kaleidoscopic Wonder to explore there's Union there's God you know well for a guy like you maybe the best AR that might be the best argument for trying to do it the Kundalini way because you have to earn it you're right I knew it would be harder for me like I've got I've got to do it by sort of stretching and sort of aggressive breathing instead of hitting that DMT double 10 do is bashing it into my leathery old lungs just take three you just take three and then you sit back and you go back in in about 15 minutes it can't it can't can't be described it's beyond language yeah if I if I describe it it's just my my stubby stupid ape fingers trying to draw God with a crayon on a patch of

26:17dirt it's not even a proper canvas problem of all religions can I just a question if you do see what you were actually looking for what do you think is C ious once you're there and you discover it what what do you come back and aren't we just back to all this you know you're right any a way Jim but cuz I have had like moments in both sobriety recovery and in active addiction where I've gone oh my God I feel truly connected now I've had a lot of those moments in what I would call unhealthy highs like you know sort of sexual kind of oh my God this is so amazing I want to live in this moment forever or moments on drugs where I felt sort of pure Bliss but nowadays I tend to find it through bloody altruism and kindness and service like sometimes when I think I'm being truly useful I feel this sense of connection but you are right it is not sustainable there is no Viagra for

27:08enlightenment you can't sort of stay hard you know what I mean you sort of you feel like oh that's it I understand it right from this moment forth I'm enlightened I'm that's it I'm never going to be anybody's again I'm never going to do anything straight for the money I'm never going to care what other people think about me ever again that shit's behind me but then someone will say something or someone will do something and I feel like I'm back here again you know I think it's very hard to capture the Divine you know I think you get like I've had in my life moments of it like I think when I do that this the yoga I practice yoga on my own practiced yoga this morning and there's positions where you go upside down and stuff and I think you would if you was just determined to describe things in a material and secular way you'd say well you were just dizzy you know but what I

27:48feel is I go upside down and when I come up straight again I feel my own individual Consciousness my sense of myself I feel it sort of disappear like I can't remember who I am for a moment it all goes away and then I feel this secondary awareness in the back of my mind like a sort of a grid an awareness and I S think hold on a minute I'm not me I'm not me there's something else inside of me and the thing that that you know my big sort of ax the grind when I was doing like that internet series The truths for a while that got me into all sorts of interesting scrapes and challenges over the last sort of 18 months two years it was the idea of know there's someone inside our own Consciousness is not free we are not free within our own Consciousness we've been condition condition to the point that we don't know that we're conditioned anymore and I think that

28:32that sort of you know that's you you notice it in lightning rod moments when there is sort of like an election and you think oh my God are people really into this what is going on B on my rage I'm still just a rat in the cage sorry continue that's the a perfect Rift to score that moment thank you very much this is that Rage Against the Machine is that pumpkin smashing pump Smashing Pumpkins let me can I ask you since cuz you found your outlet you said you're putting you're finding just good something good yeah have you I'm just a question since you've been putting it out there have you noticed this more and more is coming back or it's like ah I'm noticing it more always was there I just chose go the way I don't know these are just questions well mate right it's still like you know if you read like any bloody when you read this stuff in religious books like say in the Bible

29:32like it sort of it's going like become good and get to the point where even being good you're not even doing it for that reason anymore you've become detached from outcomes you know like in from Buddhist terms you know like that you're you're no longer about fear and desire you're no longer trying to just fulfill yourself right I'm not bloody there yet you know me even if I do something good like go to a homeless shelter and help out for the day and all that sort of thing a little bit at the back of my mind is going look at you you helping out at this homeless shelter well done well done and if someone went by and saw me helping at the homeless Shel I'd be really pleased yeah why is no one seeing me help in this ownership don't touch me you stink so I'm still a little bit looking for rewards that that's like a very hard but this is the thing as as well about

30:19being a comedian is you can't get too sincere and Earnest do you stop being bloody funny you know what I mean don't you find that that when you stuff that you're really passionate about and you believe in cuz comedy I think is constantly ripping down that you know you sort of set up a premise and then you rip it down again I think comedy is the energy of constantly going now this is real you know this is all this is all so when you're sincere you s of it's hard hold on stop it no this is serious that's my kids I care about them once you do that you've got to be able to differentiate between your forms of expression like your art form like a piece that you're creating and you yourself as a person and sometimes the I used to think when I was younger man I can't be around with meditation or Enlightenment because it's going to ruin me all my favorite comedians were junkies and

31:03crazy people you know like Kennison and prior and Hicks and crazy people and junkies like you can't get enlightened you got to you just got to be a wild man that's how you get comedy I'm not so convinced anymore and I think the the creating of these memes and and these these characters that you can Mock and and make fun of inside your act is a piece of art you're you're doing something just like a painting doesn't make you a Madman you could paint a fretta Conan the Barbarian painting it doesn't make you a mass murderer you know what I'm saying it's like you're creating a piece of art and sometimes the more points of view that you've considered the more it enhances that work of art you raise a good point in there because in certain sectors of the art world that has always been accepted that you know heronia Bosch doing a cryptic of hell don't mean hold on a minute this guy's

31:54crazy you know they he may have been I don't know or you know but like when in hip hop you know like people talk about you know like popping caps and whatnot like he taken it's taken a lot more literally and not afforded it and there a comedic Persona like like you know comedians get it a lot BR British comedians as well there's a few sort of like comedians myself uh there's a Scottish comedian called Frankie Bo like that when people are very sort of shocking like you know like like you can I can tell sometimes that Comics are saying things to detonate territories of Consciousness to say something like it make like it wait Bill Hicks did that a lot I think he would say things make go whoa steady and then he's smacked you in the mouth and then he's like he gently tells you that it's just the ride or whatever it is you know like now that he's got you where he wants you

32:39but people like I think we live in a culture now that's very prohibitive about where we go with those kind of ideas so people are very quick I've myself been on the receiving end of a lot of like what do I want to say judgment and I'm hold a minute I'm joking J think that's also because we live in this new media world of social interaction this new social media world where anybody can chime in at any point in time and this the first time ever that that's happened yeah you might be right A friend of mine in England made a documentary about what has happened to the idea of the great man you know like in American literature like you know sa Bellow Philip Roth or like you know Muhammad Ali rest in peace like that that nowadays people don't rise to that position anymore because there's thousands of liliputians pulling them down with tiny arrows as soon as their ends above the parit and it no

33:34one's allowed to be you know people would be oh well Martin Luther King had affairs oh Malcolm X he was inside he done this that and the other you know like it's like the the the yeah there are so many good things that have come from social media so many good things you know the possibility for communication connection instantaneous all those things it's it's wonderful but it does all all things in the end become an expression of the dominant Consciousness you know and if people are doubtful cynical pessimistic then that the pallet you that ends up on the canvas it also might be a case of you know everybody's always worried about wealth inequality in this world there's also a possibility of Consciousness inequality and that these people that have grown up with shitty parents and shitty neighborhoods they feel left out by even your ability to seek peace and

34:21altruism like who are you this guy why are you so lucky you're financially fortunate you have beautiful gen you're handsome you have a magazine every time walk in a magazine shop I got to look at your face I mean I love you dude but come on banging star this and so why is he so happy why is he allowed to have this happiness come to him so easily so there's anger at that the same kind of anger that you would get at the elite upper class like the billionaires and the 1centers of the world people will also look at a person like you and like there's a Consciousness inequality there's a there's also a starting point inequality you know um you know I'm sure you like you were saying you were insecure when you were young and it was difficult and I certainly was and and Jim and I knew each other when we were young and insecure and starting out as Comics we've been friends forever but that that

35:08sort of this this experience where you are you now and people look at that and they're upset that well why does this guy have so much why is this guy in this place where you can so conveniently search for Truth where I have to pay my bills and I'm student loans and I'm in a shitty neighborhood and my kids are sick and my wife's a you know this is this is like and then they get on Twitter and they're like you Russell you I hope your ponytail chokes you in your sleep right well it never will cuz I put it into a bun but I can actually I can understand that level of discontentment because to be honest I've you know I'm subject to jealousy and envy myself I spot it when it comes up when I sort of feel myself go oh why is that not me I should be having that but now I try to I try not to justify feeling you know as soon as I start feeling bad I don't think well this is

36:01why I feel bad and I'd like to stay feeling bad if you know I try and go hold a minute that I if if you believe that you know the external world is an illusion that it's temporary it's transient and what's real is your deep connection to your inner self and you can express that in Myriad ways and we're here to have this experience as an animal and I'm fascinated by the numerous ways that you're into doing it and it's something that I really want to learn more about is you know loads of the stuff that goes on on your show uh but like you know I can I can well appreciate people s seeing like particularly as the way it's presented seeing me on like on television thinking that guy that guy cuz they don't automatically know where I came from or what I had to do to get here or the fact that I get here and think hold on a minute this isn't what I thought it

36:44would be almost as soon as I got those things I was like this isn't real if you can't make yourself happy you know like I don't want to be poor again like you know I I'll be straight about that because I hated it it really frightening but like it's you cannot resolve those inner issues I now know that empirically for a fact I'm really lucky and that's why I'm sort of fascinated by the addiction model and that's why I am reluctant to smash my mind piece with DMT Al though it does sound fun I would really really love to do it don't be a I'll do it peer pressure you say I'm in like it's because I know I've tried Fame I tried money I tried drugs I tried sex I tried all of those things to make myself feel better and oddly none of them have worked worked none of them have worked I'm not oh poor me poor me what this Refugee crisis you're just being honest about your experience

37:34yeah yeah and I would like what I am now thinking Joe is what is the mo they say that you know happiness is where what the world needs meets what you have to offer well what the world needs meet what you have to offer and I think God is there a way that I can communicate some of the things that I have learned about connecting about letting go of my flaws taking responsibility for the problems that I am creating you know like is there anything about that that I can convey can I convey it hopefully as well in a comedic and accessible way and that's sort of like where my focus is beginning to fall and I'm assuming that's what you're already doing isn't it that's what I'm attempting I mean everybody I think everybody who's trying to better themselves is attempting some form of that but it's also what you're dealing with when you're talking about the criticism of you they're trying to

38:17Define you based on one interview or one one article or one thing that you said in response to one piece of current event and so it's it's real it's like quote mining a lot of times in a lot of ways looking to have a more concentrated form of that that jealous expression that we were talking about like f like there's got to be something about this guy I don't like that's it I don't like how he went on Fox News and mocked America hey you're mocking the journalism yeah you think you're better than these people that are here telling the truth well I think the way that works for me is that that is a thing that is called confirmation bias isn't it you've already feeling something inside yourself and then you're sort of unconsciously you're scanning data to get confirmation of like so if I feel insecure cuz you're super good at MMA and have black belts in Jiu-Jitsu i'

39:05like instead of dealing with my own feeling of oh if this becomes a fight I'm not going to be able to deal with it I would rather go no this guy's like and I'll find something to complete that oh he had advantages that I didn't have if I had this I would have been but like you know but but really the feeling is in me and this is what what my personal experience of actually getting clean from drugs has taught me is that you know what other people think about me is none of my business and it's something that's happening in their own Consciousness and they're always looking for some coordinates upon which to project those feelings and I know that cuz I do it when I if I start getting jealous about you know super some super successful guy or someone who's super good at fighting or whatever that's I'm dealing with something inside myself so now I try not to bring that

39:48to the world I try to go right Russell you better deal with this feeling of inadequacy or this feeling of jealousy or this feeling of insecurity because otherwise it's going to ruin your experience of being human instead of going no the problem is this guy or that guy or this person having a successful podcast I tried to go no no Russell connect with yourself yeah you know I'm trying not to blame the outside world for my anymore well I think in a lot of ways yeah these are really complicated thoughts that we have and in many ways we're almost a victim of this constant need to evolve like the the body and the brain is set up to constantly be comparing ourselves to others and to feed off of each other whether it's through jealousy or inspiration to try to achieve higher and higher levels of Competency at anything to develop more social credibility to develop more clout in the community to

40:34to feel better about your own existence it's almost like what we're dealing with is some sort of a programming that is constantly set up to innovate and to continue to get better and better at everything so if I see yeah if I see you in some movie I'm like why am I how come I'm not in these movies I don't even get these auditions I need to fire my manager and these ideas they they motivate movement they motivate momentum and you can use them or not use them but we don't we don't know how to handle them and no one's telling us and our parents didn't tell us and their parents didn't tell them I had this amazing back to the slavery we're all just tribal and at the end of the day what you're supposed to do is help other H there's no better feeling in the world than encouraging another human to live right and they live right those are the moments you remember in love go ahead

41:26Joe your dick suck in a Lear jet while you're pouring champagne on both of you oh no that is relaxing Jayz in the background no it is not on the Le jet getting your dick no that's quicker if you can get a no I'm going to debate I am going to get to Tibet take that out of your mouth no you're you you raised a good point cuz what you talking about there is how biological imperatives whatever that force was that made us Divide from one cell to two cells to 10 cells to to frog to mam to cities to all these architectural Wi-Fi Wonders that Force as you say is still in us now these these imperatives to grow that's you know that as you s Jimbo that's if you're living in a tribal Society it's a necessary function but what's happened to our species do you know that that cliche you are what you eat you know and it means like if you eat food you'll be and I 100% agree with

42:17that but on a on a different in a different way you are what you eat if you look at what we eat now we we eat monoculture Foods you know like we sthe you endless fields of wheat AC like you God I drove through what state would that have been that I would drove through like was one of your crazy Iowa Nebraska Nebraska it was nothing but it it was like the whole country was made of it just you know what else is there go on Jesus oh I love that guy no he's he'll cheer you up no like as long as you understand what he was saying the the main thing that I think he was saying was don't be gay that's what I picked up um like so um I got from him just be cool and the other like no no he said don't be gay that's what he said yeah a lot of people have missed the point with this be cool thing it's don't be gay let's focus down on his as yet not mention don't be going

43:06so like so and and then of course the the way that that meat is consumed endless abatar and slaughter houses of condensed animals not consumed as they would be tribally picked off here and there eaten once a week I'm a vegetarian myself but you know so we have Fields full of wheat avatars full of meat and what and we ourselves are similarly what we eat we have become cells of energy trapped in cities not free to be tribal beings anymore we've become so disconnected from what it's supposed to be to be this primate that now these biological imperatives the desire to procreate the desire to have status the the desire to even get high all these things have become permutated because they're no longer anchored in the reality for which we were designed and imagine your position where you're in a completely unique position even in the western world World you've become a a

43:58media Superstar you become a movie star you become someone when you show up people have cameras and you walk and they take photos of you you get out of a car and everyone cheers it becomes this really unusual event when you just arrive somewhere so it sets you up for an incredibly high dose of this sort of toxic celebrity feeling that you have to sort of navigate and you have to navigate it based on the other people that have mostly unsuccessfully navigated it before you if you start think about how many mov Stars up in a pool their own vomit or you know covered in whatever the they're doing I mean it's a it's a a large number of famous people wind up it all up where they can't handle it anymore they go Heath Ledger or a million different ways you know it's pills or just implosion or whatever the it is would you like to feed my giraffe this is sorry previous podcast

44:53you start losing your mind in the vanity for anyone that's listening to this podcast just because I'm on it and I can't imagine there's very many of you there's a reference there to a giraffe that even I'm struggling with In This Moment it's I I just think that your unique perspective and it's a very unique perspective because not a lot of people get to become movie stars is it's something that the average person they is trying to put it into a perspective where they can grasp the amount of pressure and the weird way that you have to interface with the world where people worship you and every way you people love you and you don't even know them that's a very strange thing this is the thing these sit we have to think of problems I think in terms of their Essence not of their scale you see like cuz if you like how I stopped myself like you know when I was more immersed

45:42in Hollywood and fame and stuff like it isn't like you walk in a room and like you know when when I was single and I'd get lots of attention from women obviously that that's a short circuit that cuz you do tend to fulfill that one you like oh my God I'm able to have sex with people it doesn't make sense all of a sudden they want you how did that happen that was amazing it was like it was of natural process the Matrix is broken oh my God I'm allowed to do what I want hell yeah I lost myself I wonder why you're an addict that's it's normal but every look it's called is awesome that is a difficult godamn problem to overwhelm it's impossible it's impossible to avoid the pull I mean you're talking about the gravity of Jupiter it sucks in asteroids I mean that's what it is it's just too goddamn strong the compulsion to breathe and the compulsion to be special so that you can

46:27breed more than anyone else and you can have the choice that's what your DNA calls itams but can we overcome our nature you you have you have hey thank you look at you this is the best podcast I've ever been on in my life the affir flying at me what you're doing you've decided to step away from all the move away from Hollywood and sort of take a break while you can financially and you can with your position in life and just relax and get a look at this get a look at it from afar read the ego of like people giving lots of attention what I used to like quite quickly after like I used to get a lot of Fame attention I'd think ah if someone else more famous than me came in then all this attention would go there so what is it really what is it really it's not I can't feed on that and even if I don't have that if I even if I don't literally have the experience of being of Basking in a

47:16spotlight and then just in timate walking in and see the light disappear from my face and being plunged once again into the shadows of my youth even if I don't have to actually have that experience I know that when I get home I'm still just me that none of it is real that you can't there's no nutrition in it there's nothing at the end you can't get any it's not like oh right this bit this amount of Fame hasn't worked I'll try and get even more famous it's because the essence is the thing the essence is the thing is to try to connect what I am doing or what you are doing or what one is doing to something that is connected that feels beautiful to you that feels nutritional to you and that for me that is really really OD cuz it's very hard to enjoy those pat on the back things particularly if you know like if you felt inadequate and insecure and it's very hard to break off of that

48:05track and I feel lucky but it's not something it's not over for me I feel I feel lucky to be Awakening from that thing I feel lucky to be Awakening from it but it's not over for me I still feel it you know I still feel it if someone if another English comedian if Ricky jaas came in now I'd have to go oh right okay Ricky jaas is here right I've got adjust that Sasha Baron cing right okay right now this is now I'm aware that in this moment I have a cach of being the only English person and all that stuff but it's not you know if those are the things I'm using to prop up my identity I'm but you being aware of those facts aware of the fact that you're constantly struggling in this is what's going to help you I mean it's it's not like you can avoid the the the sound of the what are they the harpies what are those things that pull the boats the Rocks Sirens that

48:51call the boats into the Rocks like it's it's it's compelling it's absolutely compelling but you understand what it is now so you don't have to do it you don't have to gravitate towards it like you know you you know that if you just went and got a bunch of hookers and some coke and hold yourself up in a hotel room there'd be some moments that' be pretty goddamn good about that but also there'd be the repercussions the the fact that you've slid back towards addiction the problems so you avoid it you know but the pull is always going to be there especially when the girls have big tits and little waist big asses Andy keep a secret yes yes it's a very that's why that's why I live in the abstinence model that's why I try not to press those buttons because that stuff is you know you can't miss don't rattle the cage don't wake that guy up leave him alone like Hulk in it don't make me

49:39angry you won't like me when I'm angry just let me be little Hulk yeah just let me chill yeah I mean look as we we've gone over you you're navigating some Waters that very few people get to go through and there's no books written about it no one has gone through what you've you've done and achieved some sort of a yogic state of Enlightenment where they've s of expressed it to everybody else and said this is this is the road map this is the path I have to I have to just say just knowing some atcts to me what you're doing is more powerful than when you were the ultimate ultimate star because I'm telling this guy sometimes I mean we all feel that way I'll get really for a little bit I'll go you know I can't believe that guy I'm trying to do this and that guy he's I think he's 15 years now and he'll turn to me go jim I've been your house you have so much more because you have

50:29so much more in your life you don't want trust me you don't want that it's a struggle but when he says that those those statements are so powerful to me cuz he can see that that vanity and wanting to be start that's why I said the giraffe because that defines My Success you know successful I'm I bought the giraffe I had a ship here I'm successful that is worse than heroin I I learn it's worse than her I can't imagine his last was is it was was still is up here but in a similar way up here that's a lot to live I don't know I TI my hat to you you were going through a tornado but he's done it in in you've done it a similar way as well and in some maybe not his level but Jim was on Saturday live he's one of the best comedians in the country he's one of the best stand-up comics in the world really he crushes he's so goddamn funny but but he decided we' been forever he decided a long time ago

51:28you know what this I'm going to live in New Jersey I'm going to do gigs and I'm not going to worry about nothing I'm just going to have a good time and perform and not worry about Fame at all I'm just going to step the away and just just work on my ACT work on performing having a good time and trying to enjoy my life and that's a very admirable thing too what you've done is a very admirable thing in a lot of ways I could but when you first walked in here you just kind of mentioned that and you said I'm suburbanized I'm I'm I'm suburbanized you said that a couple times and domesticated domesticated I'm sorry you said domesticated they don't have suburbs in England they have the country but that domesticated the vka to me is more it's it's more you get more uh gratitude out of it and the end of your days those are the moment you going to remember those little moments

52:14whether it was your your friend or whatever there's nothing wrong with that world and you can always come back once what's the responsibilities that's the problem though I warn my wife all the time like listen kids got got a couple years kids are out of there and I tell them don't get don't get pregnant man I'm 20 years from going ape and I will have that right to go AP I watched my father World War II vet go into 80s years old and I watched him go I'm just going to go AP I don't give a about anything anymore um so what you're doing is to me that's I'm cheering I cheer you on big time and I know this is corny but I saw you on a couple interviews soon as you were I mean you were you were all over the place and I could see I can see you in that room trying to find who you were while everyone else was trying to throw out a completely different character I maybe

53:05I'm crazy and I'm in the wood right now but I I would see that I'm like oh they're coming at this guy well you had the awareness to say this is all weird did feel weird it's weird as F weird how could it not be weird you're a movie star it's creepy it's an very unusual experience because it's like you know what like you saying about going like going back to Jersey and sort of saying like right what I'm going to do is my job I'm going to do comedy and I do the comedy to get the money to pay for the food to feed my family to take care of my life and I love doing it and I can bring joy to people you know like I I if I'm honest about myself I always had the ingredients for obsessive Behavior I was cuz like the more I look at it I was trying to resolve something I thought if I get there then I'll be worth something if I can get that thing and then when I got there I thought hold on this isn't

53:56even real it doesn't feel right to me it doesn't feel right and that's not like you know there are people sort of I think very high profile high level people that are making big contributions I don't think can you sweep away all of mainstream culture can you say the sole function of pop culture is to keep people bewildered and distracted and intoxicated while a political Elite in conjunction with corporate powers can saps the energy of the great and powerful people of this planet yes you can go you can but like but do you think that that's a conscious decision by the cultural Elite or is that a conscious decision by the people to avoid reality itself and be distracted by goofy television show must compc it must be complicit it must be sort of both components it must be both but like you said implied or said even earlier we are still evolving evolution is still

54:49happening it's not over is it like you know so and like so what I feel like what I feel like is what information can we impart how can we you know like you this is extremely successful as I said before cultural artifact you can just keep pumping alternative ideas into people's head if people start to hear like again and again you're being lied to about civilization it's it's much older you're being lied to about the nature of Consciousness you're being lied to about your options you know like on a very simple level per I've had like as you I'm sure have gathered quite a lot of therapy over the course of my life in as a result of the you know the the substance misuse addictions and then just out of ongoing bloody curiosity and they say the the function of therapy is to increase your choices in life cuz none of us lives in reality anyone who's bloody done DMT will know we don't live

55:34in reality we live in a narrow tiny bandwidth of reality so if you just live in a model of reality not reality itself then you should take responsibility for remodeling your reality particularly if you're not Bloody Happy in it you can change it you can change your Consciousness and for me at the moment that means quite mundane things it means that when I arrive here and my suitcases don't arrive I have the choices of do I now become a and make people's lives miserable or do I just accept the cases are not here this is this is the reality or when I arrive at the airport and I ain't got my green card and I nearly miss their flight like all all of these I just oh this is happening now the only choice I have in that moment is the choice of whether or not to start being a dick and and I and I tried not to now and in the past I was like you I'm entit to this feeling

56:18well so easy to just get absorbed in it my friend Tony V said this once and I know I've repeated this on the podcast before but my friend Tony V used to drive from you know Tony v stand up comedian I don't think so Boston guy hilarious hilarious guy he used to drive from New York to Boston all the time like almost every day he was constantly driving it's a pain in the ass it's like 2 and a half hours up two and a half hours back whatever it is New York to Boston yeah what is it five no that's a good four and drive like a sh M you had a lot of PBA cars or something did you how about it's not that far four hours what are you talking about I would say it's three at the most anyway he drove he drove it all the time and uh and he was talking about what he did was he just went Zen and he said this is what I'm doing now the way he dealt with it he's like now I'm driving

57:05like there's no there's no upset there's no this is what I'm doing I'm doing this and if the cars are all stopped and we're all going 5 miles an hour this is what we're doing yes that's perfect that is literally Zen isn't it like this is the not to resist your reality and I don't think that means becoming some doormat that people can walk all over but when you are in a traffic jam is the perfect example of a situation over which you have no control in this moment you getting cannot influence or determine that situation in any way and then I think that if you can once you've realized it on a you know a mundane level like a traffic jamp how far can you extrapolate that you know when someone goes I'm in love with someone else I'm leaving you oh okay I wanted to speak to that eart toll do you know that guy eart to he wrote like now he speaks like this he's a German person and he's

57:46so relaxed he can barely be bothered to talk to you and like some mistake some again glitch in The Matrix I managed to get his phone number right oh you and him together I'm going to have to ask you to stop calling me now I'm changing my number soz I just got his number and it was meant to be for one interview but then I thought me I've got access to this Buddhist guy I'm going to tap him up every time I had a problem right my girlfriend she's really pissing me off eart eart what am I going to do hello eot like I I started to bother like I remember Beyond hell there was nothing that can be done for you it was really it was fascinating talk to him because I was like I was having a hard time with a woman that I was seeing and like and I go like what am I going to do and she's done this and she's done that as World perhaps you will resolve this conflict and you will

58:38become married and you will have children and then both of you will die like it's just like because he knows that actually you are you're going to die that's that's the end point really so like however wherever you invest your energy be fully well aware that at some point it is going to be relinquished yeah it might work out or death but definitely death will how many hours does it take to get to Boston uh Hold Up 3 hours 40 minutes or so so we're in the middle we're in the middle depends where you leave from in the middle yeah and if you don't drive like a my mother and father would make me aware that we're going to be dead how' you mean and and my mom my mom would always say I'm going to be dead one day so you need to this this this that and it would it would I I couldn't handle that CU I want to say I was still alive five to seven you know five six years old she quite young to

59:30introduce Jimbo to the concept of mortality 5 to seven I was still struggling with a goldfish concept where's that goldfish gone oh don't worry we going isn't it a good idea to start those thoughts off early let's accept this and get over these goddamn things let figure out what the we're so terrified about that we have to create a land in the clouds that we're definitely all going to go to and meet up after the show but that that that put me in check of the whole thing I got to say and it it it made me sof just the thought of where are we going where are we going what happens is just are we just is it just Blackness like and am I and my father towards the end uh he just literally went yeah you know that's it you're dead and that's that's it show goes on and as simple as that I'm like oh my God that's a bit forget about that that's Bleak I'm not down with that one I mean like listen the

60:18cloud King but the thing is Joe you know before when we were talking about uh your DMT experiences and you said it would be like a sort of a caveman with a crown trying draw God right you said on dirt not even on a canvas I remember very specifically said it you can rewind the podcast you can listen to it again that's what Joe said right stubby Crown stubby I think you said your fingers were stubby I don't want to be overly meticulous in that particular right so like like when people talk about you know like when like it like you know the Kingdom of Heaven is within or you know in the afterlife there'll be 72 virgins me personally I see these things as metaphors it will be as if you will be in such a blissful State when you are free of the shackles of the material realm when you are liberated from your body I spent oh you check this I don't know if this is this is another sort of

61:02makes me look good and maybe it makes me look Savage I was doing one of my bits of altruism the other day you know like how I doll out bits of altruism I told you ear I've already mentioned going to a homeless place I don't know if you're picking it up I'm a pretty nice guy I was at this other place that was uh like a adult learning difficulties place right right and um for me the term learning difficulties was polite because these people were like you know seriously mentally ill I mean would be like you know I mean that were beautiful human beings and everything but like Anyway there was this and I had a really fantastic time there and of course it made me feel incredibly grateful for my own life and all the things one would imagine that you'd feel in such a situation but and I was chatting to the people and I one person was like people were getting various certificates for

61:41various kind of achievements whether it was in the art art doing some drawings or whether it was doing some cooking or whatever and like I started to feel this impulse of sort of a bit of patronizing this of like oh you're getting that certificate are you then I thought hold on a minute this ain't no from someone who's doing like a 4year ma in religion in global politics really I mean if you can imagine Supreme Consciousness if you can imagine the the Realms experienced on DMT or the Realms that are being described with people that have dedicated themselves to meditation or Kundalini have dedicated themselves to you know teris McKenna get into them super States Of Consciousness accessible to individuals and our Birthright some people say that our little achievements of I got myself a giraffe for example a new car or the things that I'm proud of today you know

62:23like we similarly are on this little pedestrian level you know like we're sweet little darling things really with our material achievements with our accolades and our Awards and it it changed my perspective of it of like bloody L the difference between me and someone that's not in what would You' consider being the normal strata of the mental health field it's no real it's not that Bloody different not in Infinite Space not with Jupiter sucking in meteors all that going on right now what's the difference between me and someone that's you know life is confined to you know sort of cooking projects is not hugely significant except I'm not that good at cooking in a way they're better I would never got that certificate well it's it might not be hugely significant in your perspective when you look at the infinite but it's very significant in terms of the two of

63:08you relating to each other and trying to work this life out and trying to be sort of uh compatible try to communicate try to be friendly with each other and work out all the the the weird cultural differences between everybody and try to get to the essence of what it means to be a person and we're all going through some weird sort of Struggle No One escapes the struggle not even Johnny Depp not even Johnny Depp even Johnny Depp after everything have hard time believing Johnny Depp Johnny Depp got dragged into the Golden Triangle of problems and he's in there right now oh really oh yeah you didn't because he did the rockar did this happen during the rockar right now didn't you hear this recently he's getting his girlfriend said he beat her and he's saying he's saying his girlfriend is Doug Stop's getting sued cuz he wrote a whole article saying that he's

63:50really good friends with Johnny Depp and Doug Stan wrote a whole article about how the woman has uh been black mailing Johnny and threatening him and he brought it up before the the whole thing came out in the news that she wanted she had certain demands if he didn't reach who knows who's right and who's wrong right but at the end of the day you know whether Johnny's telling him the truth or not but at the end of the day even Johnny D can't escape the problems the the reality of the world you know he's toing I said that was he's I think for the first time in life he's he would you would see him with images of rock stars that he loved but now he's touring so he's Al Cooper what and yes he went on a Rock Tour it's like the I'm telling you Cooper selling hot dogs in Arizona n dude I'm telling you look it up they're they're like called they got a name they

64:37stood a Rock Tour and I went huh Johnny de and they did a lot of cities and maybe he's wow that's the one thing he didn't get out of his system I don't even think that's it man I just think Johnny Depp is just being Johnny Depp just having a good goddamn time but this like this all the time what's it called the Hollywood vampire yeah Hollywood vampires Johnny Depp is the guitarist wower pretty badass that's Johnny Depp over there on the far right with the goofy hat or is it far left with the goofy hat wow good for him Johnny Depp's living a goddamn exemplary life and I think that's Joe Perry on the right that is Alice Cooper look at that all scho out he's been selling hot dogs in Arizona he has some Cooper dog or Alice's dog's place he was a radio DJ in uh Phoenix too he had a radio show he's addicted he got a see he goes to movies and he only sees those he only sees the

65:38premieres and then he goes on the street people like this first time he's front of like hundreds of th there a big difference between and holy so you're trying to say that doing shows this is this brought him to a high heated didn't he probably didn't know he's probably having a ball but I'm not saying that was happened but maybe could be that simple he that's a that's a big high boy I just stood on the stage and watch 100,000 people go nuts I was like I want to do this it's also the only time that you're allowed to dress like that you can't dress like that in real life you have to go on stage to dress up like that go go to those some of those photos if you come over my house with leather pants on and a shirt like that I'll choke you right you can't come in my house like that what are you doing man why you wearing makeup why are you dressing like you just came over on a boat from

66:31Spain that's there's some sorial risks being taken that yeah without Hollywood vampire he's got lace he's got lace around his wrists literal lace cuffs but you can pull that off if you're in a band but he always dresses like that it's like he's wearing his regular clothes like for Johnny Depp he's wearing his regular clothes but he does have his sleeves rolled up and MH see what I mean it's an affectation for sure he's definitely working on that image do you think he must his hair up on purpose like not musty enough come on M it up a little more spread there stick it up L Hey listen I know I more power to him i' I I want to do that too just so I can go to Germany like we're getting paid just go to Germany you could probably just go I could just do that too there is no restriction at the stage on entering Germany Jimbo you're free to go at tired in lace if you choose but I

67:21want to dress like that we're looking at in in his his situation is you know whether he's navigating it successfully or not he's definitely in a strange path of the river you know he's in a strange like deep wide Channel with Incredible Rapids and he's riding on a in tube down this stretch of river that nobody gets to ride the Johnny de stretch is like like the Tom Cruz stretch or the Samuel Jackson stretch like whoa like these can't go anywhere like stanh hope told me hangs around with Johnny Depp and they they can't go anywhere they have dudes with earpieces everywhere there's people constantly circling him making sure he's okay and he'll go into a restaurant there's people that like they're guarding the doors they're watching the they're making sure people don't go in the room it's very very different than even regular Fame he's in that Pirates of the Caribbean Fame where it's just

68:10can't go anywhere that's an expensive product bro I need to protect that product well it's also he's super vulnerable like people lose their minds and they're around a certain level of celebrity like does a Tom Cruz like Tom Cruz can't go to the movies right he's got if he went to the movies he would leave the movie theater and people would be trying to grab him as he was walking in the theater just to touch him and take pictures with them and it's not like you can't just interact with people right I done a film with Tom Cruz it's an intense experience what was that like what' you do it was a film called Rock of Ages and and Al bwin like lots of really really famous people were in it and a monkey and like like a the monkey when I read it well there was no monkey in it and it's some point Tom Cruz said there's going to be a monkey in this film and from that point there was a monkey in the

69:00film even mer say the monkey was in scenes that Tom Cruz weren't in one with me and the monkey was an it was a baboon it's wearing a nappy that was tied on with electric tape it was very aggressive it jumped off of the shoulder of the guy that was meant to be looking after the monkey the monkey had a trailer with five other monkeys in it that it could in its time off saying who's doing the monkeyy contract you if you watch that film you can see there's a scene I'm in with the monkey I ain't even doing no acting at all all I'm doing is it's just a man nervously looking at a m so thinking that thing could get down off that shoulder at any point now and you up yeah it could you up Thomas Tom Cruz he like a traveling King you know like he's got like many many trailers like and like but he's so like you know you arrive in a situation you think right here are my prejudices about Tom

69:46Cruz all the things I've read all the things I've heard go Prejudice like we meet him he blasted me with such affability and charm that they melted away like ice cones the pure heat of the man's sweetness he gave like on the sort of it was my birthday during that film I got a big basket full of like you know yoga related things and stuff like that these sort of thoughtful presents he remember you know shakes your hand remembers your name sort of remembers details about you he like he bring if you mention your auntie or something in the conversation next conversation he'll mention that auntie I went around his house for dinner I was really really late cuz of that monkey actually it was playing up like he was not working that day I went went around his house there was when he was married to Kat homes and it was that little little famous Tom Cruz Siri Cruz was there and

70:28all all lined up I went there I was very very late and like they' all eaten and they goes oh well do you want to still eat I went yeah yeah and I will eat and I had to sat like I'm sat with you now Joe opposite Tom Cruz and Katy hes and the little darling one I was eating spaghetti like and that's a complicated thing to eat in front of Tom Cruz as well it's long isn't it I was trying to me that like La in the shoveling that in and then the next course I think was lasna which was weird cuz that's to past the courses then I think there was like sort of cupcakes and stuff involved all the way through it just sat opposite Tom Cruz talking about communism which I bought up as a topic which in retrospect was a mistake why well because don't bring up communism cuz like what I said was I goes well look I'm down with fairness right goes you know communism yeah

71:13surely it went a bit it got a bit out of control no one's arguing with that it went a bit hectic I'm not down with massacres of genocides under any flag or going but fairness and Justice I'm fully up for and Tom Cruz goes oh don't know about that um the communism I goes yeah but Tom you were born with this thing you've been born with this thing I goes that's like being born an aristocrat you know like the thing that you've got that drive or whatever you know you're like people aren't like you I tried to explain it to Tom but uh it was hard for him to take me seriously cuz I you know like s of spaghetti down my shirt and all that kind of so but I had a good go of saying it's probably different to be Tom Cruz than other people so yeah for sure but like what was he saying that the communism is a bad idea and you were saying that you know maybe sharing more would be a good

71:58idea isn't it weird that communism is connected to dictatorships which is like kind of the opposite of Communism it really is I think any anything as soon as people start to implement ideas it gets into B trouble doesn't it because people start people like look at all yeah the power of course mate like cuz all of these like political ideas and religious ideas it's supposed to just be we're here we're going to die should we try and make it as nice as possible and like part of that's going to be not being out of order to each other and like you know sort of like and but all of them inter with our problems the problems we've described those biological and mechanical drives so I'm trying to all I've said is like the communism there is there's a socialism and Comm communism that's different from the depiction of Communism that you know a lot of Americans and English people

72:40would have because we were we were on the other side of the Cold War so we got a very very negative impact and of course that was a version of Communism that was pretty brutal in places as is capitalism you know so I'm sort of like trying to kick around these I'm saying like yeah but really all communism is it is a sort of a version of Christianity in that it's saying we are all Brothers here and all of us have rights and we should be trying to build a society where we love each other that's sort of what he saying you know like you know where it goes wrong is it doesn't allow room for individualism and the many of you know Myriad distinctions between different human beings but I won concentrating on that b but that's not really communism though that's really more of dictatorships that was dictatorships yeah you can dress it up how you want cuz like yeah that's that

73:19yeah I mean like you know I'm not a scholar in communism although I am going to do a degree in religion in global politics and for me I'm going to spend the next three years doing it part time you only have to pop in a day a day a week and actually I've not done it you have got to go for the interview next week I'm hoping they're going to let me in just on the basis of come on let me in I've been on the Telly give us a break you know anyway so I'm do anyway but my point my point I was trying to make is look things get convoluted and Complicated by you know bureaucracy ideology and demagogy But ultimately we're just me to be sharing that's all that's it's not a bloody complicated idea really yeah the dictatorship as of it is almost like it's almost like that same inescapable drive that causes someone to want to be the monkey with the five monkeys that they could anytime want there's

74:04always someone going I'm going to be the monkey that's F whether it's like you know any sort of religious extremism there's always some guy at the end of it going I'm going to be five monkeys in my trailer a there and that person's ruining it for the rest of us cuz like whenever you see like about a religious cult and it like you know I've started a religious cult you know we all live here together and we grow our own vegetables everything's organic yeah all right I love mate are you everyone oh look I don't get say are you a little bit yeah a little bit I've got a monkey trailer I'm everybody else's wives yeah that's uh that's one of those weird inescapable things about being a person about these these drives that you have to figure out how to hold them together I think communism would work look if this was a community if it if we were the only four people on an island just us four we

74:50would be Communists we would all just get together we would talk like how do you guys want to handle this like what do we do how do we gather fish capable of pulling off yeah hey I I'm I'm pretty good at climbing trees I know where the Coconuts are okay cool and we'd figure it out any poems cuz I could probably provide those but we would all we would all share right and if we didn't we'd have to have a conversation we'd have to say Hey Joe you're not digging enough holes or you don't catch enough fish we got to we got to work this out together so we all contribute in equal amount you can't be lazy and exist off the fruits of your brothers and sisters labor to all contribute what's the difference between that and being it's the same thing TR thing as well mention now have you heard this thing that in a chimpanzee societies they have about 75 chimps right and once it gets to about

75:3480 or 90 things get edgy and and they normally break off and go hell we better have another little Breakaway chimp Community CU this is getting too heavy over here and so the assumption is that we like as you know great apes ourselves similarly should be living in manageable communities we're so over stimulating exp you know when you we like sort of joking about like sort of the power of women and femininity you're not meant to be exposed to that kind of stuff you're not meant to meet that exposed to that kind of imagery that is present in pornography you're not meant to be exposed to that kind of you know that kind of variety we're meant to be like there's 50 or 60 of us all right these people are good Warriors these people are good fishermen these people are good at you know what I mean like you just find mysticism you know you find little roles in it but like again

76:17since we've lived in this monoculture where people are like little cells batteries all sort of stacked up together in cities and suburbs then like how do you access that we're not having an authentic Human Experience so that's why there's so much s of what do I want to say disease well it's an authentic Human Experience but it's a very new one it's a very different thing and I've I've tried to figure out what it is we're actually doing but it seems to me that everything is getting more and more connected right so what we're doing in these cities is we're connecting 20 million people into this mass of buildings and then we're connecting them all with the internet so then we're connecting those 20 million people with the 10 million people in this state and 5 million people in that state and we're we're all becoming one sort of weird gigantic group that's very very

76:58dissimilar from the original tribal groups that allowed one alpha male to run things one alpha female Community everybody knowing and understanding each other and when you when you talk to like archaeologists and have you ever read sex at dawn Dr Chris Ryan really interesting book but what he maintains is that this idea even of monogamy that didn't exist in these tribal cultures they shared sexuality like everybody swapped around and people banged everybody and that's one of the reasons why they stayed intimate is that they all probably were polyamorous and they all polyamorous I knew it and they didn't understand they all well it it speaks to our nature because we don't want to be monogamous it's a struggle but the polyamorous thing also speaks to this idea that before we understood genetics and we understood DNA we didn't know whose children they were so if you

77:46had a child if a woman had a child and I her and you her and you her we all assume it's our kid we don't no one knows they didn't understand it they didn't know once there will be certain Clues along the way Joe for sure you would definitely people get it they they figured it out after a while that kid's straggling a lot of people well that's a weird thing too is how children maintain some sort of talent traits that their parents have like there's things that get passed on through children to through DNA they obsessive behaviors com like like desire to grow and learn people like have kids that are very similar in personality that seem to be like inherent to the child that seems to come through the DNA yeah but wouldn't wouldn't that be a little bit to of the kid that's all NOS growing up and he's if he's watching a parent that's obsessive he's either

78:36going to go I am not being that or I'm going to be I'm that sure it's possible it's totally possible but there's also like a pattern that they follow like um my middle daughter is obsessed with things she gets obsessed with things like she's read six Harry Potter books she's eight she just keeps reading them she'll read hours and hours every night and then she also talk about Harry Potter she's all totally Harry pottered out like all day long she'll explain something to me I'm like is that a Harry Potter thing she's like yes it is and then she'll she'll she's just obsessed with Harry Potter or gymnastics or whatever the it is she's very much like me like where she gets something she's just doing cartwheels in the living room all day long and back handspring she never stops she's just obsessed and she gets on these things and just rides them out and she doesn't even necessarily know that

79:19that's how I am I don't I don't think she sees that because I'm not like that when I'm around her really so you're observing her and it's the same as saying oh well she's got my eyes you can see like that she's exhibiting traits that she's not being taught they're very extreme it's very extreme it's not like uh oh it's similar cuz my youngest daughter is just silly she's not like that at all she's she's not obsessive at all she's just a fun little kid but the middle one is kind of crazy does that how does that does that make you feel like you got a different type of connection with that kid no no no no no no there's the connection with all of them that's interesting thing about having children the connection with all of them is just so spectacular it's not um there's not like I connect with this one more than that one I connect with all of them but um it's interesting to observe your own

80:09bizarre personality traits manifesting themselves almost in a genetic level a kid yeah I I yeah back Amica my middle one's like that my middle one is identical twin of me and I sometimes I like it sometimes I love it and sometimes I go oh I like that yeah how old is she she's 14 so she's really blossoming but you know what the one that does all the gymnastics and all that I noticed to with kids they express happiness in different way my oldest one the only time I know she's truly happy and she's 17 now is when she's bouncing singing doing a cartwheel outside she's got an instrument that's that she when she's silent I go oh man something's up this kid silent her dad's so expressive you know also I mean you think about it like who who's like more expressive than you like you're this like joyful guy who's always got this crazy laugh and you know by now at 14 she's super aware

81:04that you play these places all over the world people come to see you and laugh I mean that's got to be bizarre too what do you know what your dad do for a living oh I fix his pipes what about your dad just talk in front of people and they laugh their dick off you know it's a very bizarre thing for a kid to go whoa whoa whoa you could do that too right you know and they see that and then you know she's and also I'm sure you not restrictive in how they express themselves you probably want them to have fun do cart wheels and laugh and joke around a lot yeah I mean so that gets encouraged and then I think happiness like self-reflection and all these other things it's a these are muscles and you can work on those muscles you know you can you can develop them I think you're absolutely right about that the image that I've been using is like of circuits like if you

81:47like how it must be neurologically of course I'm speculating about neurology which is probably not something someone who knows nothing about neurology should do lucky none of us do either so we'll just follow you on like that uh that you know if you're continually activating certain neurological Pathways or creating relation synaptic relationships then that that's going to fire up more regularly I mean I Noti it with some of these new things I'm doing like initially when people were explaining stuff about getting out of half guard and like how even to shuffle on the floor you know that shrimping stuff I was like I ain't ever going to be able to do this but soon it sort of like seems like it's making its way behaviorally into a different aspect of my cons and I suppose if there's like you know when talk about happiness or misery or addiction if you're Contin

82:30living in that circuit like like you know people talk about programming I feel like that when I'm aware of my programming is there's certain things that if people say them to me I can't help the reaction I have like you know obvious ones are if I'm exposed to certain sexual images bang bang bang bang bang I feel all those feelings before I make any decisions if someone makes me feel insecure or say something I have to really watch that moment before CU otherwise before I know I've gone down a path of behavior and I speak think that what that perhaps what we can do on an individual level is learn and this is like hard for people are living in total crisis and Dreadful poverty and like you like you said before where like I personally in a privileged position where I can begin to bring my Consciousness to those kind of things of like right I want to live on

83:11that circuit now I don't want to always have negative judgments I don't always want to feel fearful in these moments I want to learn to plow that neurological pathway so that it's easier for me to stay there that you know programming is necessary and like if you're not living on a program that you've taken control of individually you're living on someone else's program you're living on that program that's out there that constant bombardment of negativity and fear and anxiety and Division and you're different from people and you're not good enough and by this otherwise you're not going to be good enough you know that you're going to need pretty strong defenses I think to you know that's why with the diminished role of religion in our life with the diminished role of sort of like political ideologies that we can trust what are people supposed to do about being alive and not feeling

83:56good who do you go to now who I think you're doing it I think you're a part of it I think there's a lot of other people that are doing it too it's like you're trying to reexamine the patterns that you're stuck in and how many of these patterns that you or I or Jim or anybody here created for themselves yeah you've created a lot of your own prison bars and that's a a really common thing with people you know these the whatever defenses that you've put up whatever patterns that you've instinctively followed because of jealousy or fear or inadequacy or any weird feelings you've set these neurological patterns and they're very difficult to break once you've set them yourself it's almost like you've built Your Own Prison and now you're complaining about it yes I agree with this now that do you think we can introduce to that a kind of a compassion cuz like you know when we

84:39earlier on we were talking about like we can understand people's sort of jealousy or irritation at like people being famous or Rich cuz you know like there's there's no doubt there's too much inequality there's too much Injustice it's not something that can really be questioned and like so when what I'm trying to do is bring Bloody comp passion and tolerance to places where I find it hard today someone's like you know I told you I didn't bring no Club I left my suitcase I up you know so I I went in a shop and this is you know this is a problem of great privilege I went along to a pretty cool shop in Los Angeles and the security fell goes oh the shop ain't open yet then he recognized me and he goes oh no no no the shop is open right and and I was like oh thank you mate and I felt all special for a moment then we got to the doorway the shop and the guy that was

85:21inside the shop he I don't know he's having a bad day or whatever and goes oh you know maybe you can't come in right and I immediately you like the reaction I feel inside myself like rage actually and like and the security guy to his eternal credit overrode the guy in the shop just let him in just let him in and then like I was you know got in the shop and I felt sort of like I felt better about myself in that moment like I'm sort of like uh you know felt special I'm allowed in I had so many little things sort of triggered in me in that sort of short momentary interaction a feeling of like oh great the security guy recognizes me oh no this guy don't let me in and it's very hard for me actually to I'm still in my mind judging that guy that didn't want to let me in a little bit I'm carrying him around in my conscious be like that you still having arguments in your

86:03head why didn't I say that that would have destroyed him I could have driven that guy to Suicide I'm going back there I've got the perfect thing like a silver bullet and then you get there and he goes hey man I'm really sorry if I was rude earlier I just uh my girlfriend apologize yet because I thought of the perfect thing to destroy you and then you go oh poor guy PS if you would let me in this poor guy's working retail his girlfriend's some football player poor bastard right that's just a and I'm sure he's those are moments too where you go to a club and you're so r i I thought in my mad success I'd reached at a point where I can walk to a place and I say you're not allowed in here and i' turn around I'm going I'm going to buy this place and then I'm going to fire you that's how worth I that's what Tom Cruz does so time bu his whole for why so just buy

86:59his place it's a lot of admin just to sack someone isn't it you got go for all right okay the surveyors are coming on Monday right Jesus Christ okay health and safety people coming to check right and now could you bring in Dave we can't bring in Dave cuz he's at his chemotherapy session and they might have some weird laws of who you could fire and not fire you can't fire Dave is he was here on a charter a union imagine now you buy the building this has to keep working for you oh my God now you're stuck with him oh and then he sued you for discrimination or harassment or something I didn't know that Dave was missing a toe when I tried to sack him that was a that was a mistake in retrospect so did anybody from uh the Tom Cruz Camp try to convert you no one made even the remotest effort to convert me I would I couldn't have made it more clear that I was a man desperately in

87:50need of an ideology oh Tom finally okay get so lonely Tom finally there was something to believe in some structure some simple look just for sake give me that dialectics book or whatever it's called yeah there should be a way right there was no interest it's like do you know what I felt I thought they felt that I would ruin Scientology and they didn't want me in that's what I thought yeah that's what they did they didn't in there was no invitation like and no one said come on mate you need a bit of elron hubit in your life there was no no interest they meant to be an expansionist religion no one bought it up at all and if ever there was was a candidate for religion I think they tread very carefully on those Waters you have to start asking questions yourself yeah or there's certain levels perhaps this is also possibly where they don't necessarily really want anybody new to

88:38join thought I li didn't qualify I'm going to that celebrity center I'm going to kick the bloody door in say O come on I think my money they've been burned too many times they are very careful about who they allow in who they don't allow in I would imagine at this point pillaring of scient I'm always s to feel sorry for him well like course SS they're just trying their artist to make up a religion I mean I don't know you see going clear yeah that was you'll stop feeling sorry for him when you watch going clear you're like what in the I like that guy Paul Haggis who went like when they showed him that right this is the manuscripts he was like he looked around for like oh come on this is the test right to if if you believe in this they go no you mug that's not the real thing you idiot get out well he was a mad man I mean El Ron whether or not he's correct about scientology wrote more

89:27fiction than any person that's ever lived even if that was his only qualification he was just making stuff up constantly making stuff up and then he wrote this and no red flags nothing no one no one goes hey maybe he made this up too no chance on Monday is in Guinness world of records for making up on Tuesday he starts a religion and no one goes is this connected to Monday's activity in any way not only that just a chronic liar just his whole life was just full of also I didn't like his rubbery wet lips like a sort of Ronald McDonald mouth it was all bit of sort of like s of wet slobbery guy on those cruise ships dressing people up I mean there some I'm not a big fan of dudes with captains outfits on either unless they making well he did he was in the Navy and he did command ships apparently but he was apparently not very good at badly commanded he was removed from

90:19his duty but the point is after he got out decided I'm Still rocking this Captain's outfit I'm not letting this go you're not Captain they will believe anything s trust me I got a boat I'm going to make some up and I'll have them for quite a while and make a good business of it there watch me I know why British there he is yeah Skipper mad man look at that fascinating I mean about the liquid around the mouth anyway but I suppose people that are Scientologist will say this is our religion and uh you're you're taking the piss out of our religion well it's an ideology that is also uh a very positive one in the sense that it's dedicated towards self-improvement and eliminating all these psychological barriers that are holding you back and in that way people find a lot of benefit in being a part of that religion and I think when they find a lot of benefit in being a

91:07part of it then you know they can justify all the other nonsense and just sort of ignore it because what elron hubber according to the going clear book uh the Lawrence Krauss book was trying to do was self-medicate what he he had a lot of psychological issues himself and he was trying to cure his own issues and in using these methods to cure his own religion or his own his own issues he translated them into a religion like this is a big part of what Scientology initially was was his own attempts to self- diagnose and treat his own psychological ailments quite a good idea really at the beginning like and S of worked really well and there are I suppose people that it's working for I like a quote I heard that I liked was be quick to see where religious people people are right you know it's all really obvious where religious people are wrong you know cuz we sort of hear

91:58about it on the news but like where religious people are right you know s of togetherness selflessness relationship with a Deeper Self acceptance of death and the possibility of transcendence of the you know human Primal self those things are all really beautiful ideas that have kind of lost their way in a scient a scient you know that term scientism the idea that s science has got into territories that science can't really handle because we come to a juddering full stop at certain points you know like what happened on the Tuesday before the Big Bang you know materialism materialism and individualism are hard things to overcome if like if if people if we are if we have as our dominant mindset I'm only going to believe that I can prove then you are just an individual and you may as well just do you know why not just spend your life as many people as you can and accumulating as

92:49much material as you can because nothing exists unless you can see it measure it weigh it contain it it you know if that is you know the dominant belief system which sort of materialism consumerism capitalism I think all dovetail on that premise you know this is all that's real you you know that's how you can have the The Chronic ecological disrespect is because oh it doesn't matter what happens after you're dead what about my children even just on a practical level have got to live on this Pebble in Infinite Space like but if you're just like well we've not really thought about that you know of in ability to accept you know like certain and I I know that you're sort of like a I don't wholesale bu any dominant Theory but I it's clear to me that do you know why I believe in on an individual level and on a cultural level if something is possible you should be trying to do it so as soon as

93:39people realize hold on a minute that's having a negative impact or hey this is a better way of using our resources and our utilities as soon as you realize it you should be moving towards it they say wisdom is acting on knowledge once you recognize oh fossil fuels are running out it's like right now we better start working on the basis that we're we better start looking at alternative energy sources we better look at different alliances you you like knowing those things and not doing them it makes me very very uneasy because it makes me think who benefits from ignoring this stuff who's running this show if it's having all of the you know if it's creating all this rage all this unease all this fear in your country and in my country now times of great great disease and uncertainty for people really looking for something and no the these institutions are just

94:27saying just you know carry on there's no sort of alternative no one's going to like you know no one now is going to see himself as part of a religious community in the same way or sort one of the Dead ideologies of the last century and Meanwhile we're in this sort of peculiar state of looming crisis that feels kind of mad to me well we're definitely in a state of looming crisis but to unpack this whole thing you started off with this idea of what happened the Tuesday before the Big Bang and how science can't really answer that well they can't answer yet like the the the problem is once they gather more data it might be 100 years from now or a thousand years from now they can say oh well here we've done the calculations and we understand now that it's an infinite cycle of birth and death and the universe is constantly expanding and Contracting and this is the process that

95:09we're a part of it's infinite and it's never started and it's never ending it goes on and on and on I think you're probably bloody right mate but like that idea that you just dis spoused is in 5,000 year old documents like called the aanish shads you know like those ideas are there already so when we off religion 100 years ago because it was causing too much you know our sake we got we kicked out of some of the ideas that are only now just being discovered right but those ideas are just to be contemplated right now and to be considered whereas science is trying to find definitive evidence that they do or don't represent the reality of our timeline and once they do then they'll be able to talk about it but right now what they're doing is they're examining the evidence that the Big Bang exists and what could have possibly caused that yeah that no see where where what my

95:56difficulty is is that there are that is when any ideology behaves dogmatically and prohibitively like prevent like prevents further exploration like what whatever what like what kind of what's an example of that the nature of Consciousness no one knows why Consciousness impacts matter in the way it does in the subquantum world no we can't we've come to a point it's oh like you know like if you were like that the famous double slit theory that an observed particle behaves differently like you know that a particle and wave can change its essential nature depending on OB misrepresented though when it's been explained to me by people who actually understand it what it really is is that we're measuring these particles and in the act of measuring you're changing the results because you're using something to measure it yes yes but so but it gets represented as all this woo woo

96:51craziness but what what I think is interesting Joe is somewhere between this woo woo craziness and the kind of a flat mundane look this is life you're born you die you eat food comes out your territory somewhere in there is a mystery that they're behind your eyes behind Jimbo Jam's eyes and my eyes there is a constant there is this Consciousness there is this awareness there's this inexplicable experience that you've had on DMT experiences that I've had through yoga and through LS that suggest to me that cons itself is the dominant Force Consciousness is not just one more phenomena it is the seat of all phenomena and when people are saying oh there's this thing that's God what they are saying is there is an absolute Consciousness and all is contained within it or matter at some point has come from Consciousness these Realms that are experienced through psychedelic or ex extreme you know

97:47personal experiments like your cryogenic things or your flotation tanks all suggest a a phenomenon Beyond individual Consciousness there's something else there and the Very fact that you know that it's in that Consciousness even by the process of measuring even by the process of measuring is influencing and impacting reality I don't think that you know I'm not taking that to the extreme I know what you mean mate some people go oh that means your mind can control I I don't think it means that it means that reality is only reality when you look at it that's what it's kind of getting TOS a bloody good book that I reckon your listeners will be Bang into is called biocentrism by a man called Rob ber Lanza who he did the best breakdown I've ever read of that double slit experiment and of and of the the the you know made me understand for the first time that reality is happening

98:34within your own Consciousness it's not an external phenomena at all that you know like he explained in very ways that I could understand of like he went you know you s think think is s totally mundane he went like you know the experience of going in your kitchen in the night and turning the light on is your kitchen fridge still there when you go back downstairs he goes well he goes when you do go into your kitchen and turn the light on it goes you Photon Parcels of photons come down they interact with the optic nerve they trans like they're inverted in your Consciousness he go you know so whatever it is that's in your kitchen when you're not looking at it it ain't the same as when you are looking at it it's an interpretive reality and one of the ways that I've sort of reduced this down for my own simple understanding is this that if none of us had a sense of smell if

99:15you didn't I didn't Jamie didn't and then how would the concept of smell make sense how would you go oh there's paint there's bacon we none of us would have the instrument to receive it so that whole thing would be off the agenda so I think that there are streams of energy streams of data for which we do not have the instruments to receive so we totally discount it because we simply don't have the instruments to receive it and I said once in my standup as a matter of fact like my cat doesn't know there's an internet the C the internet does not enter the realm of my cat's Consciousness but the internet's out there we're out here having all these experiences and like all those Realms that we're experiencing in these various sort of psychedelic States or you know however they achieved is an indication to me there's another reality now where does that become

99:57relevant to what we're talking about for me where it does is one of the continual ideas that keeps reemerging to connect us back to where we were with Joe Campbell at the beginning is there is this sense of Oneness and believing ourselves to be individual and believing the dominant thing in our lives to be material that us up because people will kill each other over that material and and once we sort of realize no we the the true thing about us is the Consciousness is the inner self that's the real thing now we're all out here we're all in the game we're all going to do and we're all going to make mistakes but let's not have the material idea as the dominant social idea because everyone's agreed with that whether they're communist or capitalist or fascist or whatever everyone's saying now the main thing is this that's out here and it's like that connects to

100:40those Primal drives because you know that if that Taps into your sexual drive you can never have enough if that gets into your status drive you can never have enough status and power you know so like it's we're all going to still feel those things I'm still going to be a 25 times a day but it would be nice if the cultural Ambience was oh don't worry Russ all you'll be back to your normal self in a minute of feeling that we're all one and we're all connected not yeah well of course I feel like that you know like that and that's what frightens me about the culture of our countries at the moment is it's endorsing the worst aspects of our nature it's acculturating the worst aspects of our nature instead of the best aspects of our nature and for me they no difference between left and right in the current political sphere cuz they're all making the same argument they're all

101:22saying come and live out in the material world yeah it seems to me that the material world and this idea that we should be accumulating possessions and status and all these different things is universal it almost seems like it's a natural progression from ancient tribal civilization life to this weird City Life to this integration of electronics in our life and this symbiotic relationship that we have to computers and the internet and information itself it seems like this is one of the things that drives that is this desire for material possessions cuz when you have a desire for material possessions it ensures that you're going to continue to innovate and come up with newer and greater and better because you always want to keep up with the Joneses you always want to have the newest Tesla because it goes 0 to 60 in two seconds and you want to have the the coolest

102:06house with the biggest TV and the fastest internet and all those things sort of compound this technological innovation cycle that we're on so my thought has been for a long time that what we are is some sort of electronic caterpillar that's going to give birth to some artificial life and that all of our desire for material possessions and status and all these different things is really just us pushing forth this electronic agenda and that this Innovation and the construction of artificial intelligence that's inevitable is eventually going to be the next stage of life and that we're like huddling ourselves up in this sort of civilization cocoon and then boom out of that cocoon is going to pop some sort of a god being and that this is what we're here for and this is what we've been doing since we're monkeys slinging at each other and flipping over Cow Patties looking for mushrooms that we

102:56are a part of a process and then if you look at it objectively all these traps that you or I or Tom Cruz or Jim Brewer been caught up in with whether it's traps of ego or jealousy all these things sort of Ensure movement they ensure movement they ensure interactivity and that is going to ensure Innovation and progress and competition and all those things that even we look at it we go this is so pointless this is so foolish this is so but yet it's so incredibly prevalent not glorifying it or saying it's definitely the way to go but objectively if you weren't a human and you're stepping outside of this thing looking at it from a distance you're like these are making something they might not even know they're making something but they're making I understand like the same way that your bees or ants may not be just aware of the hive Consciousness and and the common drives but the where

103:42I disagree with you Joe is that that you see the end point as being the materialization of a superconsciousness through technology I see the end point is being a realization amongst us as a species now I know like could be both could be both and there is no you know there is no reason to you know we are just another are we just another species on this planet are we really know better than dogs and cows and monkeys I don't you know how certainly are if the it's the very Sun that heats us up as a lifespan yeah where are their inventions as well the cats and the monkeys they've done all they invented being cute I mean they are real Darlings they sit in your lap you pet them you like it they need to contribute yeah they're contributing take a dog for a walk you come up with good ideas you rub his belly that's fair I do love my dog bear um but hold on uh but my what was my what was my point

104:35there God I think you pump you want to pump the brakes what you're saying is we should pump the brakes we should pump the brakes of this possession and this this idea that we're trying to accomplish these great things by accumulating things and status and it's all and it's really about Consciousness more than anything in fact Bill Hicks I think already said it when he said like you know that we we can be expl we can explore space inner and outer together in peace like that that idea that if we looked at our common drives is like you know like hanock all the time I've heard him on your show saying like that you know that what really what's happened is a bias towards a particular aspect of our own Consciousness the problem solving brain and like you know there's no those drives are amazing those drives they're trying to get somewhere technology is amazing like you know the very fact that

105:19people in bloody hear us I don't understand any of it is wonderful but the dominant idea behind it one of profit that dominating idea and like you know profit in itself is not necessarily negative but profit at all cost profit at any cost you know so like really I'm not saying we should as a species slow down and dress in felt and you know like grow own vegetables there's no fun in that I want human beings to be glorious but what I'm saying is that our bias towards this one particular materialistic idea is preventing us from realizing that Glory because part of our Consciousness has being ignored yes but you from the time anyone say yes but yeah no no no I I think we all agree on that and I hate the dumb I'm dumb so I Dum it down and I go back to Pink Floyd We Don't Need No Education it all we all aw you don't have a chance or your CH your back is against the wall from the time you come

106:14out of the womb because you're you're saturated with false images you're saturated in our society God is money and success and there is no soul there and it to it takes people like you and I to go there and go there's nothing doesn't matter because it's so oversaturated that's why Kardashians are huge and this person's huge and because it's almost laughable because the more you put it out there the harder they attack oh hit them on their cell phones well here's phones the kids are going to be on it 24/7 it just it's massive overload it's the more your brain goes this way the more they go yes yes well we're not designed for this amount of information coming in that's for sure no we're not designed to be connected with seven billion people all over the world we're not designed to seeing a camera placed on someone that doesn't have anything good to say anything interesting to say

107:12at all but they're constantly on camera and they're editing it in a way that your short attention span is sort of connected to this thing cuz every 15 seconds they giv you a new camera angle and that's by Design it's like it interfac like they figured out how to do these reality shows where they edit the shows like a music video where you're constantly changing the angle so you you're constantly stimulated if you just had Kim Kardashian sitting across the table from her mom and they were just sitting there for like 3 hours talking like a podcast you would want a meteor to come from Jupiter and slam right into that goddamn House end this now stop this before it spreads what are they doing but if you keep them going back back and forth and then you cut to a single of them by themselves bitching about my mom is always and then go back to her well she thinks that she

108:00can do this and then look at my shoes look at that watch oh Premiere cameras and constant changing of angles and constant introducing of a new thing to pay attention to on a sorry on a stupid small note on a tiny tiny note of how powerful and how far away my oldest daughter and I I hate to admit it she sit there and her lips she came in the room and I told her 20 times don't do that she saw something on the Internet sticking her lips in the bottle and it blows her lips up and for three days her and everyone's doing and wasn't I was mad at her I went wow this is how many my my kids part of that banana land it's just it's almost like they're laughing at us now watch what I can make them do now but they're but no one's pulling those strings we we're pulling our own strings but that's how it it's a visual oh I see it and that's what I want to be oh look

108:58at that image I have to be that you how many fat shot into their ass so they look like Kim Kardashian there's like a whole Trend where women are waist training where they're wearing these corsets and tightening down their organs and then they're having fat shoved into their ass they're extracting fat from areas of their body and then reintroducing it into their ass in order to develop this round ridiculous thing that looks like you're wearing a diaper to be relevant in our to to imitate the same way you know the Siri women have plates in their lips we're imitating patterns that we see they don't necessarily have to make sense but we're this weird animal that sort of imitates what our surroundings are we imitate our atmosphere in some strange way and we can we can sort of create our own hell that we we re you know we reproduce this thing around us that's not just

109:51unsuccessful it's it's satisfying it's weird it's depressing and we do the goddamn same thing we've become too good at adaptation we adapted to a sort of mutated State that's what I was trying to say earlier with the the influences the the Paradigm the template that we're moving towards is too predicated on the material to the point where yeah it's ludicrous things I do like you drawing the comparison between the neck things and the earring things and the kadashian ass things that that power that we harnessing all seems to center around Innovation when we're pursuing material possessions when we're pursuing uh physical items we're not talking about like vintage things like I'm really into handmade things I love a handmade bag or a handmade knife I love the the idea that someone created something crafted something but those things are the same like if you buy a knife that some guy

110:40made hammering in a you know one of those Vats of fire and bang bang bang you're he's doing it the same way people have done it for hundreds if not thousands of years there's something fascinating about that and interesting about that but in terms of like progression and Innovation it's like you can't compete with these goddamn laptops or phones or any of these things those things are they're getting better and better at this staggering exponential rate and at the end of that line see this if you if you extrapolate if you look at it from a distance you pull yourself away from culture and civilization and look down what is this super being called the human race what is this superorganism doing well it's creating better and better things well why is it doing that why is it ignoring the very ocean that surrounds it why is it sucking all the fish out of the ocean and all the dirt and

111:30dust up into the air but ignoring that while concentrating on The Possession and the innovation of all these electronic gadgets well it's got to be something to do with that it's like a pull and McKenna used to call it an attractor that we're being pulled towards some future attractor some Singularity event some moment that we are creating whether we're aware of it or not but that part of all of our ridiculous behavior in terms of our ego and our drive for success and attention and love and affection and all these different things is really sort of pushing this Innovation further and further and quicker and quicker that's an extremely interesting idea one thing I was thinking when you're saying that is like all every time that's happening like the the creativity you're put you know where are these things before they exist you know things exist in this unrealized realm what you know Plato

112:21referred to as the realm of ideas that there's an idealized form of all things before they are realized in the material world like someone designing a knife has to consciously conceive of the knife before bringing it into the material world that there's this constant need to pull from this unrealized place whenever I see babies now I want to get where were you where were you before where was your Consciousness tell me what it's like I was friendly and hopefully still am friendly with David Lynch the filmmaker and he told me that a friends of his over were outside their kids nursery and they had a three-year-old kid and a six year old don't say years after month six-month old kid and and they heard the three-year-old go the six-month kid uh I need you to tell me about heaven again because I'm beginning to forget that's creepy isn't it and it came from David Lynch that blew my mind

113:08sort of where is consciousness before it's realiz I'm to forget oh it ble freak me out you here as a person and Jim you can back me up on this as a person who has kids one of the most bizarre aspects of child raising is that when you have them and their Bings these moments when they're little and Tiny you think I never going to forget this this is the most powerful moment of my life this is amazing being around them when they're so little and their first words and they're talking to you but you forget it you forget it all because you know them as the them they are now at 6 or at 8 or at 10: or at 14 and those incredibly powerful moments you forget but meanwhile you're you remember some who cut you off in traffic 14 years ago and you're like I should have kicked that guy's ass I saw him at the red light and I didn't get out of my car and it haunts me to this day I want to drag him out of

113:58his car and feed him his teeth you remember that but you won't remember your daughter being too dancing to some music that's on television and everybody laughing and cheering along you have to see it you have to look at a video that you saved on your iPhone and watch it and you go oh yeah that's right oh my God what an amazing moment somehow or another almost like dreams those ideas are erased from the accessible memory in some strange way or many of them are so when you hear a three-year-old saying that to a six-month that is crazy because it makes you wonder is that one of the because that's one of the properties of DMT by the way which is the Psychedelic that's created by your own brain one of the major properties of that dream is how profound the Visions are incredibly powerful but then they slip through your hands they are gone they are gone just like a dream when you wake up from a

114:52dream and you try to explain it to somebody you have a very small window where you can explain that dream what the is going on inous yeah there's powerful moments though an eraser yes but there's also powerful really good moments that I've had with each one of my kids that I can literally out of all the moments I said I'm going to remember this you've stored them in the museum of your mind yeah I had forgot most but there's a handful that I remember as if it was yesterday that was on a a deeper spiritual conscious level where we just locked eyes and it was a moment and we just knew everything about each other at that moment now again you know maybe I wanted that moment but that's how it felt and I can count that with each one of my kids were I always go back to going wow I really know who you really are and I'm trying to get you back to that does it make sense it does I think

115:45that we have an accessible database we have a hard drive we have a certain amount of space and that's been proven when it comes to how many people you can know and keep in your life they say that you could keep about 150 people in your life and you can sort of remember these people and you can you know hold these people but once you go past 150 it gets slippery as and you must experience that because you're constantly meeting people and people know who you are and you don't remember them and after a while you can go nice to meet you and they go we already met we met three years ago you're like oh I forgot yeah I can't maintain this many connections theas for it's a hard drive issue it's a literal hard drive issue I forget what is the I know it's not bod's law is the size of planets it's uh I forget the principle but the principle is 100 whatever the word is

116:31it's 150 people and you keep those 150 people in your head and that's it it correlates to what we were talking about with the old chimpanzees and anthropology that there is a there is a an ideal size for a community before it becomes like oh this is too hard to deal with but like those things you would talking about your children there are like a Transcendent moments gun number that's it cool like you're talking about moments where it didn't matter that you're individual a and that's individual B that there was a clear connection that something passes between us something and it was be it was overpowering and beautiful just for that moment and that keeps me going in certain moments of time even though I'm 15 years later in 20 I I I know no one can describe it to me I just know wow that was a deeper moment and on some level that can be broken down I'm sure

117:16to sort of oxy toin and like oh this is this one was triggered by that there is a sort of a mechanical or M IAL component to even the most beautiful experiences of a sunset or what whatever it is but M but to return to what you were saying Joe before of like how we favor negative information there's a clear evolutionary bias for like negative information has to be stored because you know is that a tree or is that a lion you better you know what I mean you're if it's a lion so negative information does have like priority but what I you know where you say about like sort of this continued technological Evolution what I what I think is that there's an imperative to have a con a comparable spiritual Evolution Revolution and how I think that can occur is like the more that I meditate and spend time doing that sort of stuff it gives me a more of an awareness of the kind of phenomena

118:03you're talking about about the positive things and like you know about oh my God I must Hold This Moment In My Heart the moment where my dog done that or the moment I found out my girlfriend was pregnant don't let this go don't let this go make this part of who you are as a character and try to prioritize it over negative things or when someone hurts you you know and and I think that one has more determination over that more authority over that if you have meditation as part of your life if you have a spiritual component to your life you know I when I was a teenager I noticed that my mates were all the time like you know I'd hang out when I was hang out my mates we smoking loads of drawer then we get in the car we go out they go to work my mate would like he worked in a A Car Factory and then he would go and work doors you know doing security and I thought this guy

118:43never ever is like just in yeah he's never still he's never in reflection he's always engaged with some external thing there A really lovely guy as a fact he was and like but like I I became aware then like that that's myself that I was like you know part of my addiction was that these uncontrolled drives always wanting something approval sex like I could was unable to be still and be in the and like so many things like you know like I'm not a Christian but there's so many things biblical things like you know the Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the Earth but man sees it not the Kingdom of Heaven is within be still and know that I am God you know like you know sort of like for me all the the fuzzy Rapture cloud Kingdom you know that you know that's no use to anybody but when people are saying to you it's in there it's in there it's there already you know like and there's no of

119:30course we are also living in a material world and I A Material Girl so we can't sort of like we can't we can't drop the drive to continue to create these are our great achievements as a species but a part of it has got to be you know learn how to connect to yourself learn how to connect to your emotions learn how to store positive experiences and learn how to let go of negative ones you know if that if that data isn't out there if people you know we've all got paths haven't we we've all got our individual attributes and skills like you said if we were on communism Island you know you need people like to people to be realizing what is their part of the Divine what is the little part of you that's trying to realize itself but life's kept knocking you back and the systems kept breaking you down and you've not got to realize that thing that you can feel like a tree you're

120:13trying to grow into and that's the that's the part of it that I think can only happen as part of a spiritual Evolution and I think you can even you can only get a ticket to the spiritual Evolution if you learn to deal with this mad stimulating that we're jacked up on it's what you said you meditate you got to turn all off it's really hard you got to turn it all off nothing and then your mind will have a chance to grow yeah I I also think that that's where the the compelling feeling to gravitate towards that comes from a dissatisfaction with the material world dissatisfaction with this idea of possessions and that there is some sort of a weird EB and flow and a yin and yang to the world and sometimes you have to see the the disastrous effects of just giving in to material possessions and the compelling feeling of wanting attention and nonsense and just Gathering up items and living in

121:03the biggest house you have to almost feel the emptiness of that to gravitate towards a spiritual approach and I think that's one of the reasons why those things are there it's almost like people who do horrible things like sometimes I feel like horrible things when they're manifested by the human race they sort of they they they they can give birth to a lot of positive reactions because people don't ever want to be like that and they they see that and they go well this is definitely not the way to go because we're kind of all going through it together one of the things about the human mind and The Human Experience like being a conscious human is we assume that we're this static thing Meanwhile we're we're very well aware that Evolution exists all throughout the natural world and we're also aware well aware that we've only really been this thing for like what a half a million

121:47quarter of a million years it's not that been that long that you could go back and find uh an ancient human and they look like you could put it in your clothes and put it in a movie theater and we wouldn't freak out it's not that long it's a short amount of time so if you think about the fact that we know that these animals and these these things are constantly evolving and changing and adapting all around us why would we assume that we're in some sort of a static State why I I think that our own gravitation towards material possessions and our own use of this new form of interacting with each other through social media and the internet and and movies and but all those things are new we have to understand that mass media is new as all of it newspapers are new as everything everything's a couple hundred years old the oldest is a couple hundred years old photographs couple hundred

122:36years old we're dealing with really really really new influences on the mind and the mind is developing and expanding and reacting to all these new things and sometimes it reacts in a very negative way like it gravitates towards the Kardashians and it goes towards possessions and it wants the shiniest new thing to show everybody that you've arrived and it's it's it's a part a cog an unconscious Cog in this machine that's just producing new items and then sometimes there's a guy like you who sees that and goes there is no soul to that I'm going to jump in the lake near these Royals house and I'm going to experience what it's like to freeze my dick off and I'm going to carve A New Path and I'm going to separate and I'm going to try Domesticity and I'm going to try abstinence and I'm going to try to find some sort of a new way of addressing my dissatisfaction with the current state

123:26of the world that I find myself in Oh I like that that was a good rent I need a nap it was deep it was it was I need a nap a lot in here do it it does I need a nap but there's a part of that in all of us we're all just going this ain't it maybe this is it this ain't it maybe it's yoga maybe it's Scientology maybe it's being a Mooney maybe it's this maybe it's that maybe it's maybe this chick is holding me back and I need a goddamn divorce get the away from me I I'm going to wear a captain's outfit now and to find some chick lives by the beach he's got to the captain's outfit always to live out of my car and travel around the world I'm going to put a bed in the back seat and you know it's like dissatisfaction with the it's been happening forever can I go to the toilet please pleas do go right through there yeah right through that door first it's going to cuz I got to PE that can I be

124:15hon I was trying to be a man I mean for me going weird to be in another room that ain't got used Lots voices in it don't worry about don't wor you drank three Waters I've drank two and one and I got to piss like a horse and I can hold this in for another day it takes a strong bladder to do a podcast Jim oh my God by the way I should just say why we're doing this one of the reasons why I really got in doing a podcast there's a a bunch of them uh Opie and Anthony were a big one but your show was a big one man when I did your show and we did it at that joke place the joke place on Ventura Boulevard remember you were in La yeah and you were in town and uh I had done your show like calling in before but I'd never like we' never done together I was like this is so fun just hanging well what I loved about that one too is you it what that thing allowed me to do

125:06is believe it or not thought provoke and let other people talk one of the to me one of the greatest moments ever was you called in and we were we were all sitting there and I you went into this whole thing of these are the times of Truth and and that and I think you spoke for 45 minutes straight and I just kept looking at everyone going don't just let them go this is this is this is fascinating let him go where else can you have this and one of my guys made like this whole Pink Floyd music and he put it on the inter I said you got to get that on the internet and I I think I remember calling you or telling you going Joe this is that was the most fascinating thing I ever heard in my life High so high I thought I was gonna die but it doesn't I'm sure you were and but you never were allowed to even think like that on radio and one of the things you said too which was my

126:01favorite part was uh and again I end up fearing it because I didn't want people think of it was our opening song which justs explained it was just the four of us we came out two of the guy musicians and you came in you're like bro that is the that is the greatest theme song I ever heard in my life and I was like really yeah what was you really well it was me and the guys and we were just really just talking and we riffed it and I said don't even don't even change it let's just do that it was perfect but it was real yes and then I knew I um I knew when I heard you were like you you have you need to be in this world it's great to it's it's great to have you in this world it's refreshing it's thought-provoking it's powerful it's I love it man I'm very very I I love it yeah well I love it too man it's a it's a unique time you know that we can we can have something like this

126:58and when I was on your show I was like man I need to get one of these satellite radio shows these are the I didn't know there was going to be an internet version of that where you don't have any bosses and it reaches even more people it doesn't make any sense at all there somehow or another a path has been carved through the information highways that people have never been on before it's only like 10 years old and through that path you reach everybody and it's free like it's it violates all the ideas of capitalism you don't have to pay for it it's massively successful and there's a 500,000 of them and it lives forever yeah forever forever so people can constantly discover did youed just allegedly I mean what I'm saying is like we not might not make it you know asteroid hits well whatever until that happens it'd be nice to know that someone that's never even heard of you

127:49oh yeah in 20 years down the road they're going you need to listen to this conversation you know Russell Brown was in there on this day and listen to that 20 years from now they're going you know that makes that makes a lot of sense that's it's pretty awesome this is the great part of social media well the great but it's also that it's all free and they're all available you can get 800 plus episodes of this thing anytime you want it and when things are free you can be more honest and more passionate about what you're putting out there because no one's paying you to say anything any pressure when you were doing the satellite show did did anybody ever come to you and go hey Jim you know we listen to that show and you guys are you got to tone it down never that's amazing never honestly say never never never never cuz op and Anthony got suspended a couple of times even from

128:36satellite radio they were getting uh first of all they were getting a lot of commercial money yeah yep they certainly were and they rubbed the wrong side of the madness yeah you know it was all over Fox News like you don't do this well they were kind of compromised in some sort of a weird way whether they wanted to be or not because they were making a fuckload of money and as soon as a company is paying you x amount of money every year and they get upset about something or they feel feel like the ra avertising revenue is going to dry up because you guys have said something crazy like you remember when they had that homeless guy on who said some crazy about condalisa rice no yeah they they got suspended for like a year or like a month or something like that they had uh some my be a week making up numbers they um had some homeless guy on it came on and said he

129:25wanted to rape Condes of rice something and they you know like what the and they just had some crazy guy off the street and he talked all kinds of crazy nonsense and he left and you know it's all live so there nothing you can do about it they got a homeless guy in the air I mean what the are they going to do it's not Opie didn't say it Anthony didn't say it Norton didn't say it but because it was on their show they pulled the show and it was probably because of political pressure or Pol pressure from the Bush Administration this is also coincidentally during the time where and Howard Stern it was just after the time of Howard Stern getting sued over and over again by the government remember they would they would give these massive lawsuits and that BR drove him to satellite radio right and even in satellite radio they weren't safe so even in satellite radio

130:09he moved to satellite radio he moved to sirius they were on XM at the time I think it was before the merge of Sirius XM or maybe right afterwards but either way they they weren't free even under the banner of this free thing on satellite radio the political machine still had influence yeah we never we never were told don't say this that's amazing don't do that cuz you some wild shows they would do they would go Hey listen you know ratings time it looks good if you guys were to come up with a biggie kind of entertaining show and then that would like that we can get out there in the uh did you get to choose guests um yeah they weren't they weren't running to us trust me but did you get to veto anybody yeah I couldn't tell you who there was a million guys like I don't know anything about this guy I don't want to talk to him what am I getting out of that so they bring

131:02suggest politician I'm just I'm going to be a dick yeah see that's a beautiful thing about the time that you were involved in it too because you were involved in it back when I was on Fear Factor because the stunt guys loved your show man there was a I had to do this thing where I got in the truck we had to drive to some location and was hanging out with these stunt guys and they were playing your show when it was on Raw Dog yeah and they loved it and they were like dude Brewer show is the best and it it was really wild and raw and I was like you maybe couldn't even do that today well those are my best friends growing up and my best friends was Jimmy Shaka who was deep and we would have these conversations for hours and it really bothered me that there was no outlet for this anywhere you had to be a freak or Widow a hippie or or whatever and then I had my other best friend on there who

131:52works for FedEx he was a he had the blue collar he stuck in that blue collar neighborhood he's a little racist but he won't really but this is just who he is and and the nucle and then you had Cory Elli who was just he'll say whatever he was he'll he'll just go and say whatever and do whatever so it was great to have all these different views honest views and if some days we just F and the big rule was no news no pop culture if you bring pop culture on the show you're out we're anti we're anti- poop culture you're out you're fired get that name you banned forever well that's beautiful in a lot of ways but it was hang too it was just I was trying to get it back to tribalism whatever at the end of the day isn't some of the best times you have conversations like these or when you're with the people you trust the most that could be the kid you grew up with could be could be anyone a family

132:49member someone you just met and you're just hanging out at the end of the night you don't care what this one's doing or that one do and you're just hanging out there's a fire you're talking at the end of the day it's all the same what's out there who really knows what's this who really knows let's talk about and try to figure out for 3 hours and what we get out of it who really knows yeah time for bed my kid's getting up 6 hours but feel good that you're all doing it together yeah you trust each other I'm not am I crazy for saying this I might be he'll tell me dude you're crazy why would you say that's stupid that's stupid why is that stupid and just that Bal things off of each other and they make more sense that way if I trust you and your instincts in your mind and I tell you something that I believe and you you refute it and I go oh okay I have to

133:39consider his point of view because if I trust your point of view and your point of view differs from mine well how did he come to this conclusion why is it so different than my own and by absorbing a bunch of different points of view like that it gives you a much more nuanced perspective of this existence and you have to be open I'm not out to win the conversation I'm just we're just here to learn from it more that's important people have to be open with that and I think we've all been guilty of not being open to that before wanting to be right but it's important to not just Embrace being wrong uh but try to understand why you were wrong try to understand like what what it was and and not be connected in some weird ego way to your ideas it's hard to get Joe yeah but it's like all those other things that we're talking about I mean like you saying that you have this this this

134:22gravitation towards uh expelling all of these ridiculous Notions that everybody is just sort of accepted as fact and truth and trying to connect with a much more spiritual life well that means you've got to think about it it's got to be a conscious thing and the same thing with not holding on to your ideas and not being married to them and not not being invested in being correct or incorrect but just sort of accepting them as just ideas and be able to go yeah I think you're right why was I thinking that that's hard for people to do I I know this is this stupid but I saw a statement was in someone went it was a tourist spot but I passed the tourist spot I went in the house and there was a statement in there and I never it just it's simple but it just blew my mind and it said one person could change the whole world for a better as long as they don't give a damn

135:16who gets that credit oh my God that they have a Di I and I thought like if you really don't if you just want to sit back you just want to see things better yeah and you really can change it for the better but you don't have to worry about going you know so and so said that or so and so set that up or so and so did that because now you're doing it for a different reason it's amazing yeah I I'd never heard that I'd never heard that before until like s of like yesterday I saw like I saw that quote and something and that's a problem that I continually have is all of us wanting to own ideas and that's I think part of what's excellent about this medium and particularly the way it's being executed by ulot is that it's it's discourse you know like this kind of thing is not really like you know like you said the fast moving fast cut Sound by TV just bombarded with an artillery of mostly

136:11erroneous information you don't get to people hear people hour after hour talking examining discarding as you said who really knows and returning to that point point it's sort of it's sort of encouraging cuz I've had like you know like as I like I've always thought like you know I don't like agree with like uh Bill O'Reilly or Shan hanit or those guys but I've always kind of thought I bet I'd think they were all right if I hung out with them like there's something about Bill oy he's like caginally kind of oh come on like I think i' think he was kind of okay you would I think you would joke around with him and you guys probably start laughing about some things and that's kind of a reassuring thing isn't it and like it to not be kind of like once you get a like I think that's what's kind of ugly about both liberalism and neoliberalism is you can see it's people just forcing their

136:59idea and they've lost touch with and like I do it all the time L touch what is it that we're genuinely here for and that thing you said of like you can change the world if like you know no one like if you're willing to do with no one knowing about it that's like ah that the Pang that I feel in my gut shows me how much my egoo is still involved in the that I do the lack of discourse but I just saw it I didn't say it saw yeah but the the the lack of discourse like what we we're talking about being one of the more important things about podcasts or one of the best things about podcast I mean I I'm I'm really hoping that that's the trend of the future that people understand that there's this might not be a right way or a wrong way to do a lot of these things and that your point of view whether you strongly believe in it or not might not really work for the way I see the world

137:43it doesn't mean that you're right or I'm wrong or it doesn't it doesn't I mean there's some certain truths like hey don't rape people hey don't murder people those things are obvious but there's some other things that aren't obvious you know there's other things are not obvious like maybe you shouldn't hurt people's feelings maybe you should mock them because what they're doing is preposterous and in hurting their feelings you actually Elevate all of us to realize the humor and their Folly and I'm a big fan of folly I enjoy human Folly it's one of the things I enjoy most about humans I'm the quickest to make fun of my own self so if I can't make fun of them what kind of a goofy ass world do we run in we run in some super sensitive world where everyone's a perfect Snowflake and we can't on them like nonsense you need humility you need humility this also humor is really important to

138:28unpackage things like because there's a lot of things that are going on right now in this world that are a little weird and one of the reasons why they're weird is because humor hasn't had a chance to dissect them wow I think that I I heard John CLE talking about comedy and he said that people talk about like you know like the people are very anti-humor because they know it's powerful and they often use the idea that hey hey don't talk don't don't joke around this is serious but you're supposed to joke around about things like serious and he said they have mistaken seriousness for solemnity you know there's no and the reason they want to be all solemn about stuff because they know it prevents people that have got that comedic switchblade from getting into the argument where you can and detonate like I'm not taking that seriously I'm not playing by those

139:13rules and they've also taken away your special power yes don't have it it is a special power both of you guys have it like they don't have it so if you come in and you deflate their argument with a quick switchblade oh this piece of why you joking around about something really important maybe your white privilege is showing maybe you should consider the fact that your humor is offensive to a lot of people and what you're doing is and it's not helping it's very regressive and they always try to use humor though huh themselves they always Stitch it into Political disc here's one of the real problems with the left and especially the regressive left and the you know people that think that they're going to change things they're unbelievably mean when they're mocking the right like you're talking about compassion like I've seen some of the most the least compassion meanest

140:02angriest come out of people that consider themselves to be liberal and Progressive and their idea is to close down discourse what they're going to do is going to on you and insult you and then gang up in some sort of a weird bully pulpit to attack all the people that don't agree with them when I got involved in politics in my country doing that thing the truths yeah like the the most and I wrote a book as well like about like called Revolution and in that book I talked about like it was basically a book that was meant to be for younger people and it was like this is my perspective on why I don't believe in this stuff and why I believe in this and it was you know it was relatively simple and and again I'm you know like a self-taught person so it's not a book by a academic right the worst vitrio and the worst condemnation came from the kind of newspapers and liberal

140:47organizations that I would think would be supportive of such of like you know that's good that this guy from the world of popular entertainment who's not classically educated is trying to do that no they came in they came in like get the out of our territory shut up shut up who do you think you are more than any kind of like uh you know sort of rightwing organization that they almost see us going oh jolly good yeah I was really like I was very people that I thought might be allies organizations I thought might be encouraging were very condemnatory well you got to realize that what is the the mechanism that they're Distributing this information with you know what are they're doing they're they're writing their own stories they're promoting their own blogs they're doing their own radio shows and in fact feeding their own ego like we were talking about before that green monster of envy that

141:36sees this guy with a beautiful bone structure and a beautiful accent now all sudden he's philosophizing this piece of he had he had the wherewithal and the power to go on a sexual Rampage chose to back off of it and realize he like all these goddamn things he's got going for him he's a movie star this guy this guy I'm tearing him down I'm tearing him down honey and he's sitting there with his pot belly and taking his anti-depressants and tap tap tapping away mean on the keyboard hoping and hoping that these mean words hit your mind and they enter into your Consciousness and he can affect you in some sort of a horrible way oh God lack extreme lack of compassion from some people on the left and the the green to attack this fact that oh here's this guy and I don't agree with him and I think that what he's doing is sexist and it's misogynistic and it's enabling and let's

142:31get him we got a Target right on his back attack oh he's doing press oh well I'm going to be involved in this press I'm going to throw my hat into the ring as the the the Arbiter of intelligent ideas to dismay or dismantle rather all these stupid thoughts of this with his perfect bone structure and man buns pumping out him him professional wrestling yeah professional wrestling well it's people man people jockeying for their own little Shining Moment In The Darkness pizza Front see I go conspiracy pizza Front all right here's what our Magazine's about is it conspiracy it's just a thought why does it have to be called conspiracy I think the word conspiracy is a conspiracy well deep just you just cued conspiracy must the best at this we're through the Looking Glass now the conspiracy in itself is a conspiracy damn he' shut it all down shut it all down he

143:35knows yeah um I mean there's definitely some real conspiracies but uh I think that there's just a a natural emphasis a natural inclination to on people that are doing better than you or on people that have something good going on and also when you're writing a story about something what how much fun is it writing a story that's positive and how much more satisfying is it to unhappy people to write a negative review about something it's much more exciting it's much more fun I've seen people distort people's ideas and really horrific ways because that's the old way cuz the old way you could write a blog about something or an article in a magazine or whatever about someone and distort it in horrible ways and they really didn't have any recourse but that old way doesn't really work anymore doesn't access because of media like this sure so I'm thinking I would like to start a

144:25podcast I'm thinking yeah you should definitely you never done a podcast in my yeah do one in my country oh my God you can do it anywhere you go do wherever you want yeah you can bring it anywhere you I I've done them in Australia I've done them all over the world you just do it anywhere you want all you have to do is have a phone you do it into your iPhone exactly I just talk on my phone I just talk on my phone I like it you're dumping up you don't have to edit you don't have to do nothing it's on your phone your podcast is on your phone dude you're designed for this you're designed for this yeah and not only that you don't even have to have a guest you have a guest on if you want but you don't you can have a guest on if you want but like Bill Burr is one of the best podcasts in the world and Bill Burr just rants unbelievable he rants for like he'll just sit down for a

145:06hour and a half and just go off about this and that and it's a stream of Consciousness he'll goes from football to his wife or his dog and baking and his internet sucks and he's tired of construction workers and his driveway is a piece of and he just he'll go on and on and on you can do that too what are your main things you've learned from doing this what are the main things you think right this is how you do a podcast what are the things that that the rules the structures that you have learned man that's there's almost I've learned so much I've learned how other people perceive me I've learned how I perceive other people I've learned what my maybe my own problems in perception are I've uh I've sort of tried to examine as many things as possible this a master course in human interaction for me that's what I've thought of it I mean I've had 800 plus

145:54podcasts where I'm interacting with all sorts of different people so it's a it's a fascinating way to understand how people think and to just chunk data just chunk data about how people react and talk and communicate how has it evolved from your original vision of doing of podcasting to how it is now have you become more free with it less formulated what yeah well I I think it was formulated but I've been better at it I'm just better at it but when the podcast started out it was just I just wanted to figure out a way to do something like something free where you're just just doing it with a camera or you're responding to Twitter questions or trying to my thought was I've done a bunch of radio shows Everywhere I Go Everywhere I Go I promote a comedy gig I do a Morning Show I had a great time God I would love to do one of those like but that was so much fun like I would love a radio show

146:46but I don't want a boss and I was trying to figure out how the can I do this and and then doing Jim's show and doing the Opie and Anthony show Opie and Anthony yeah was the greatest it was the greatest because when they were together their show was a hang like like if I could call Jim and I'd go hey uh I'm doing Opie and Anthony tomorrow morning he's like I'm doing it too like oh it's GNA be so much fun and we would see each other and get a bagel in the morning and high five and go up there and just laugh right and you were able to do your own thing no one's trying to out you know it it was that place taught me everything yeah was start hang yes that was the oral hang I never heard anything like that yeah it was the only radio show that was a real hang where you go in there and everybody's just hanging out and then Jim started doing his show which is very

147:29similar when I could get to you your show was a hang too it was a hang cuz I I wanted that model I loved going into Opie and Anthony and just sitting down and they're like What's Up Knight you didn't have to be on they didn't like if you did bits they want you come don't come to do a bit don't do a bit don't do a bit just talk we want to know and that that goes probably what you went through too what you going to say Russ authenticity then it's sort of about like being trying to be like just being normal and being who you are and not imposing like right coming right up in 5 seconds we got to do you like all of those things like having a boss and having a structure and having like commercial interests that constantly and and you're an intelligent person and people like listening to the real you and you don't get that opportunity a whole lot they gave you that opportunity

148:17like whoa this is a whole different I never yeah knew this side existed from this person I don't like this person's I'm sure people hate my Brew sucks but I like when he's uh I like when he talks real I like so that open up it opens up the opportunity for all that it was it was I'm going to say it was like a revolution it was pretty it was pretty intense I've been on this show and I can see what you mean that that was sort of part of the transition and like how it Stern surely you would say as well like someone that for me yeah someone that was sort of pioneering what Howard was absolutely the original he's abely he's the first he's the most important guy in the history of radio because he was the first guy that got arrested or fined rather I mean he got in some serious legal problems because of the things that he was saying on the air and uh kept doing it and he was the

149:05original guy would just be blatantly honest and and and he was the first real reality show he'd call his wife he would call oh oh the guy's working on the light let me talk to him let me talk to the and you said like he's going to want to talk to the plumber and they did all this on regular radio right when no one was doing that everybody was playing music they were all they would have like these little things they would do and then they would play a song and he had to do that in the beginning he had to do songs he would make his humor in between the songs but eventually he was like these songs I'm just going to I'm just going to be me and have a good time and talk Y and he figured out how to do it he was more rigid and structured whereas Opie and Anthony when they would have guess on like like Brewer and I would be on maybe bur would be on or some other people would be on

149:49and we all be on together and he would just go in there and we would hang out and it was literally like the time would fly so fast we it wasn't a matter of not having enough content it was like too much content not enough time and Howard didn't have that it was almost like they wouldn't Howard didn't have that opportunity at the time where he he just came up in a different way and then once he went to the internet I think that blew up to another hole that blew him up to everyone said ah you know where is he now I think he's 10 times think times bigger and more that point it became he evolved in terms of content or do you mean in terms of for me everything everything conversation thought well as soon as things get on the internet then they can spread freely so the Merit of this the conversation what's interesting about the the conversation then it just

150:37gets passed around and as soon as things just get passed around like that then someone calls him out oh my God you got to hear Jim Brewer he was on Howard Stern holy is it funny if you heard it you got a link and they send you a link and Bam and the beautiful thing about podcast is someone can tell dude Russell's got a podcast you got to check it out oh let me check it out and then you go on your iTune app and you go Russell there he is Bam and then you're playing it like in seconds you're in your car and you're playing it and it's free and now if I just discovered you I'm going to go I want to hear more I want to hear oh you got to listen to like one of his first ones where he wasn't even ready he didn't know what he was doing you got to listen where he went from here to here once they're in they're in they love you they know you they feel like they're exposed what

151:18experiences have you had that you've like were hard or like you know like see because you've not got bosses or anything was there ever times you going we should never had that guy on that was a mistake that a couple minor ones nothing serious anotal nah just weird conversations where you just kind of learn better about how to handle those moments it's it's a it's almost like you're learning on the job right it's like I never did a radio show before I never just spoke open and as a form of entertainment like how arrogant not just to think that you should be able to speak I mean of course everybody should be able to speak but the fact that you think that your words are so interesting that other people are going to listen to them and they're going instead of talking themselves they're going to just listen to your talking why the would they do that they're not even

152:00there you know like it's not like someone's right in front of you and you're talking to them you're trying to be polite so you let them talk no you you're you're you're downloading their right so that you can listen to them talk and then you're not going to talk while they're talking like what this is madness right so in learning how to Broad broadcast in air quotes learning how to do that you're kind of learning by by feedback and also by listening to yourself and listening to other people's podcasts you'll see other like things that great on you about what other people do what like talking over people that's a big one we all do it we we all shouldn't but we all have an idea that we want to get out we don't know when to do it and it's hard to figure out because we're all freeballing when to jump in and when not to also some people don't listen to the things that other

152:42people say they just wait for their turn to talk that is a real issue that's a giant issue because then you ask them about what you just said and they're like I wasn't listening like how can you not be listening when we're talking like this is okay well then now we're not really having a conversation we're just exchanging rants you know and I'm waiting for you to get your completely nonse rant in and then you're going to impress people with your quotes and how much you know about this guy or that guy and that's a real common thing is like using it as an ego springboard instead of looking at it and a podcast is really essentially a piece of art and I mean it's grandio term but you're creating something and you want to create it the best way you can and you could it up by being loud and stupid and saying a bunch of dumb that doesn't feel good to anybody to hear or you could say

153:30some cool that when they listen to this podcast after it's over they go that Russell bran said something that's going to change the way I look at the rest of my life and that's that's possible that's one this is entirely like do you think then this is entirely your authentic self like you don't is there like stuff that you withhold when you're in this situation I've come from more conventional media priv private information about loved ones that's it that's it I don't I don't withhold anything I don't want to hurt any I don't want anybody anybody else's feelings to get hurt or you know things along those lines but I've made those mistakes it's just not smart just not not it's not smart resistant it's funny funny it's not their yeah it's not their uh choice you know so you have to you have to withhold certain things and you know you Al some people just want to be

154:16private people they don't want to have any part of your parade you weirdo out there talking to the world every day have you had any negative have you had any negative consequences as a result of like you know CU you have to work in other Industries and all of that is that only positive uh I don't give a so it doesn't really matter yeah I feel like if you have you money and you don't say you you're wasting you money so if I have some real thoughts and I don't express them because I'm worried about job opportunities like I'm already in prison whether I like it or not all right if there's something important I have to say and then the jobs that you do get or the employment opportunities that you do get they'll be looking for your authentic self and that's it's some like the same sort of situation with some crazy woman likes to take some guy and change him oh he's a fixer uper like

155:03they're not they're not going to grab you and go I Russ Bri's talking a lot of crazy Revolution type once we get him in the network put him in a nice suit he's gonna he's going to be the best talk show host ever he's the future Jimmy Fallon and at the end of the day yes if it comes to entertainment you're number so it doesn't even matter what you say they believe it or not believe it and you get these people don't doesn't matter I think we should put him in this movie cuz he's worth this much and think of we'll make this much and this many people automatically buy tickets cuz his following is into you you almost start controlling your own destiny but hasn't that happened as a result haven't you got hasn't things happened to you it's like f that podcast is powerful I I don't well what do you mean like haven't someone gone why don't we put Joe Rogan in this action

155:51movie he got massive yeah but I don't I don't I'm not interested in doing anything I'm interested in doing less things I'm not interested doing anything new I don't want to do any movies I like doing stuff that has nothing to do with work like I like doing yoga and I like doing archery I like writing comedy I like performing standup I like doing podcasts I like I like just doing stuff I don't want to do someone else's stuff yeah you know if some movie came along and it was really interesting and for whatever reason it a short amount of time I would have to work I would consider it but I've passed on a lot of stuff I just don't have any interest in it you've taken control of your life through this yeah well i' I'm doing what I actually want to do instead of when you know and Jim and I were in a pilot for the very first TV show that I did in 1993 and we've been friends for longer

156:39before that way long before that but you you come here and you think I've now I'm GNA do this project oh boy I'm in I'm on a TV show and you and then you get on the TV show you go you know what I don't even like this that much I like doing standup why am I doing this but you're doing this because they keep coming to you like hey we've got a game show and they're going to eat animal dicks and you're going to shoot them out of a rocket what do you think you're like I'm in it's on TV I'm in that's what I'm here for and the money is real good and you do it after a while and you go he you know that's not what I enjoy doing what do I actually enjoy doing well I'm just trying to do the things I enjoy doing what I enjoy doing I like doing podcasts I like doing standup I like uh and doing all those extracurricular things that I do the the things that I do that are just interest

157:23in life and then I don't want to differentiate between interest that I do for financial gain or interest to that I do for mental exercises or for spiritual growth or whatever I just want to do things that I enjoy doing that's really important isn't it you get sucked every life and so many people don't have that kind of Freedom creatively on any level the freedom of I just want like that's the that should be part of more people's experience of Life of like I am happy doing this yeah it makes me like it's really beautiful to hear that that what you're led by is Joy cuz that is another Joseph Campbell thing follow your bliss find the thing in you that you're connected to and follow it and when I think of how many times in my life I've got I've lived out other people's ideas as you say like all right now this is hold on a minute this is what I'm must this is what I'm supposed to do like

158:07again like Bill hick says this look at my money this has to be real it has to be real because you bombarded with it and then you realize oh my God so if you are lucky enough to get to a position where you can just do things that you enjoy but how do you do you think that idea that you've applied to your own creative lives can be applied if you're living a normal life and you're trapped in a job that you don't like how do you think you get out of that situation well I think it's like everything else it takes small baby steps to move out you know you've got to move towards that direction you have to have an absolute game plan and you have to have an actual thing that you enjoy doing like say if you're some guy that's trapped in some job but you know like to bring up something we talked about you enjoy making homemade knives and you think you're like you know I would love

158:52to just be able to make arts and crafts to be able to create something that people buy maybe Pottery or something along those lines it would really feel like spiritually and creatively satisfying to me to be able to express myself in in an art form that to do that for a living would be amazing and there's a lot of people that start off in regular jobs and they figure out a way to get to that place and it's not easy and people will and moan at you and tell you how not easy it is and yeah you're saying it's making it seem like it's easy it's not easy a lot of us have problems we got mortgages and children and I need a health care package and everybody has resistance there's always resistance to anything that you're trying to achieve in life and everybody's setup might be different everybody's needs and and requirements might be different they're all different

159:40but if you find whatever the it is that you can do I guarantee you you have some time in your day that you can dedicate towards making that a reality it's a matter of making that time a priority to try to change your current state of existence how do you do it I don't know I don't know what your existence is and I'm I can't tell you anyway because what the way I do things and the way you do things is totally different everyone's going to do things different I'm a kamakazi person I'm like let's cut ties pull the shoot let's go I'm I'm like let's get out of here let's quit you know but I've always been like that I've always been to burn the house down you have to make another one that's that's my my thought has been just Abandon Ship let's get out of here and and find the new thing but you can't do that when you have a wife and children and luckily for me when I was young and taking crazy

160:29chances and moving towards a career and doing something I actually wanted to do I didn't have anybody else that I had that counted on me once you do it becomes much more difficult but not insurmountable and completely dependent upon what it is you're trying to achieve I like that well you could start good R well I going to say like you know sort of how do you Bridge it for like you know like I said that thing to Tom Cruz that time of like you know being born with that drive being born with that knowledge of I'm going to do this cuz I identify with that crash and burn thing and it's been problematic in my life with relationships and stuff I have a sort of a I've got a survival Instinct in me it's like right this is mad I'm out that's good right how many people stay and get tortured right and they're happy when that heart attack comes finally I get away from this goodbye forever

161:20welome I hope you're happy but like see my thing is that I would like more people in the world to H like it'll be like you know Jesus like to for more people to have that opportunity like makes me sad that people will be listening to this thinking I want that I want to make my art and craft knives I want to do like that if you if you've not got place for that in your life then you like you were saying then you were in prison you you're anyway and like you know and there are certain systemic changes that could be brought about that would mean that more people would have have that opportunity that's the other thing that makes me sad what systemic changes what I mean is is that if we didn't have a culture that was entirely dominated by one economic idea that more people would be out sit around making art and crafts I mean think of the things that keep coming up

162:01again and again in this conversation people should live in small tribes I mean right so why the are we not trying to do that now why are we not going like you know why are we not going right let's try like I mean another word for tribe is Soviet and people did ever go at that it went terribly terribly wrong but what I'm saying is that that these kind of ideas I mean look now I mean like I wonder if that's that you know that's the template what's the next level of this is like right well let's try and work on that then let's try and bring some of these ideals like you have as an individual like can this be collectivized can this be brought forward so that more people like you know do you take that leap of faith that me if we did get 150 people together of course there's going to be problems and challenges there's problems and challenges now we're not competing with perfection

162:43we're competing with a defunct system that's really causing a great deal of negativity and problems what would happen if people did start to try and create Alternatives I two it would happen you'd be killed no I don't think you you don't think so no I don't think code right out if you went right we're setting up a system 150 people this is our new podcast experiment we're setting up a Utopia only when you become a threat and you have to become a threat financially or you have to become a threat militarily one of the things about these Waco type dudes they always gather guns they everybody's wives and they have a stockpile of ammunition then you become a threat David what's the stockpile of guns and the everyone's wi Oh no just focus on the Jes Jesus how Jesus rolles right once you become a threat and that's the only way violence is the only real threat you don't think it's a

163:32threat you don't think it's a threat to expound those ideas and spread those ideas it's um it's controversial but I don't think anybody looks at it and says you know what this is going to take money out of my bank account I think people are so engrossed in their own life and their own progress own path of conquering I don't think they think about it that way unless you cross them unless you like you say you know what godamn it this rer Murdoch is up the world and I'm going to expose him and I'm going to let the world then you've created an issue then you've gone into battle with a man with unfathomable resources and that I tried that how'd that work out no no no good J now see here Lord Vader I'm a bit bloody sick of all this you see his wife he's got a hot wife of course he amazing I love how stereotypes just play themselves out over and over and over Donald Trump's wife I go that's

164:33what I like to see see the same thing over and over again I'm tapping out I'm in pain I got to pee go ahead man no worries yeah I I think I think we you know one of the things McKenna said that always resonated with me is that so many people do the man's work for the man and they're so worried about the repercussions of being free or expressing themselves or discussing psychedelics they do the man's work for the man by not by being scared unshackling themselves ourselves and expressing yourself in a way that makes sense you know like I think one of the things that's most interesting about McKenna's lectures where he was in the sort of the infancy of the internet where he did a lot of them is he expressed himself in a in a way that's kind of really similar to like podcast rants but way before their time he was doing it in front of these groups of people and someone recorded it so he

165:25would have these meetings you know the people come to hear him speak and he would have these meetings and he would a lot of times he would open up the the room for questions and he would just sort of rant and you know he a consummate consumer of cannabis so he's high as and he's having these bizarre conversations these rants were exploring these ideas and he got better and better and better at them all throughout these rants and when he's doing these he's essentially doing a podcast that takes a long time to hear he was do you do you think of him as a sort of a modern secular profit because like you know if you sort of like if you've like been into the comedy of Bill Hicks and then you listen to Terence McKenna you can see like oh that he's clearly influenced hick oh yeah well he he would he the way I found out about Mna was through a Hicks bit cuz Hicks bit had a this bit about what he

166:15he said what Terrence McKenna would describe as a heroic dose mushrooms so I like who the is Terence McKenna and this was you know the 9s when I heard this so I I'd seen Hicks live uh a couple times three or four times I guess in Boston and um what was that like it was amazing first time I saw him it was an accident uh first time I saw him uh I went to see some comedians uh that were like local Boston guys and um Hicks had come in from out of town and I don't know if he was supposed to be there the next night or what it was but no one was there to see him they didn't know who he was and he went up on stage and was just so weird and he was doing this bit about Tiffany meeting Jimmy Hendrick at the mall you know that uh like this music that they're promoting this pop culture music and and he was at the comedy Connection in Boston I saw him I think I saw him there first and I saw him at

167:14Nicks and a couple other places but uh he was just he was doing some new things I was like okay this is a new kind of Comedy this is like Sam Kennison but with like much more of an emphasis on the realization that the patterns that we're all following into whether it's pop culture patterns or that these things are they're actually detrimental that these things are they're a foolish way to approach this world this world is incredibly complex and we can all look at it together and I was like oh this this this is a new kind of Comedy how was it going down in there really good and really bad I saw him bomb horribly but bomb with grace that I've never achieved he he he bombed like he didn't give a about bombing I've never been able to do that he he bombed like a guy who almost knew the future knew he was going to have some sort of an impact on the culture and knew that this was

168:05just a footnote in that incredibly impactful experience on the art form of standup comedy and also knew that eventually he'd find his own audience which he did not have at the time cuz he was at a small Comedy Club Nick's comedy uh stop in Boston which is couple hundred people and um there was a guy who went on before him who was a real hack nice guy but just hacky hacky cop donut jokes that kind of just everything you've already heard before nothing original and he was killing killing with all this simple stupid and then Hicks went on afterwards with this like really bizarre interpretation of modern civilization every was like this guy and people were getting up and leaving in droves and uh kept going through the whole thing and me and and Greg Fitz Simmons was there and a bunch of other comedians watching him bomb we were laughing our asses off so he was playing to the back

168:55of the room the comedians that were still there laughing were laughing hard in support but people were getting up in giant chunks and leaving at the end of the show you know the show was Whitted down from like 250 people to like 40 people and 15 or 20 Comics that was all that was left and we were howling laughing and he got off stage like nothing happened he would not compromise no he was an interesting guy so then go on and then so that's what he kicks you off into the McKenna realm yeah he he's the one who introduced me to McKenna by that joke just by saying that and then in um hearing hicks's references you know he was there was a few other guys that he sort of referenced their ideas like gnome Chomsky was another one like one of the things that hicks was famous for saying was actually a Chomsky line was that uh about the Iraq war that it's only really in a war when two armies are

169:44fighting you know and that was like that's a direct chumsky quote it is and it's a you know in Hicks well he you know it's it's not I don't I want I don't want to say it's plagiarism because I bet if you asked him he would tell you it's aome Chomsky quote but he was introducing that concept and that idea to these people through the world world of standup comedy and then from there he expanded on that with all of his material about the Iraq War and the all the new weapons that they're doing and farming equipment yeah um stting that Shane bit yeah it's and I think you give him that because it's so like the stuff he was doing was so Innovative and incredible and funny like it like sort of say you look to like say you say Kennison or Lenny Bruce before that like that that what I've experienced of them and I'm I'm not by any means in Authority he did like Bill Hicks did

170:35make it more densely humorous maybe not when you see him live on that but by the time he was recording specials and stuff oh sure also like I've always thought the Bill Hicks it was extremely refined and honed work wasn't it it's like you know like you can see incarnations of the same content many many times with him you know whether he he at least in the stuff that I saw cuz I've only ever seen him you know recorded stuff he wasn't going out there he wasn't like doing lots of spontaneity and lots of like it was like they were like beautiful very articulate pieces of yeah work and sometimes they didn't even make people laugh you know I I watched it with this girl I was dating at the time in like 1993 is something like that and she was like yeah he's not really funny but he's really fascinating to listen to like she didn't find like some of the things he was saying were funny but I

171:24think that was also the Revelation show which he filmed in London which was one of those weird shows where you're doing an HBO special and you have one show ready go and there's some weird pressure that's involved with that and it doesn't necessarily always come off loose and like the feeling that you see him when he's at a club where he's expressing himself in a much more free way I felt that he's a lot of his comedy uh high points across his content came from his ability to do characterization like he'd do like a sort of a long bit that used to like oh my God this guy's just hitting me with data but like when he does I believe God created me in one day like those things was like looks like he rushed it like he lets you like I think he does let you off and then and then as well that the thing that were like I think that Revelations was the first thing

172:14that I ever saw of his like when I was like was a kid and like when he does the the marketing rants you know like anyone advertising marketing K I could like you know I couldn't believe his sincerity I couldn't believe that someone would hit you with that much heart quit putting a dollar sign and every damn thing on this planet that someone would talk like that someone meant it so like that was from the heart huh yeah yeah well it resonated whenever some something resonates and stays I mean it's also there's so much mythology involved in him now because he's passed on and he died young and we always sit back and wonder like what would it be like if that guy was alive today you know he didn't have the outlet then yeah where that's again now you can go back and look at a guy like that because it's there and but back then you weren't ready to handle that no who was talking

173:01like I'm com to Comedy Club I want to I want to laugh I don't want to think tonight well Hicks I don't want to hear this Hicks was what you know I I don't know what you saying so Kennison opened the door for Hicks cuz he was one of the Outlaws and Kennison had a lot of bits that were like but they were more humor based than point of view based like he had points of view but the point of view had to be really funny whereas Hicks had a lot of points of view that was like there's got to be a way to introduce these ideas into people in the form of stand-up comedy that maybe not even aren't that funny but are very important whereas like Kennison was everything was I mean he had some ridiculously funny bits and he did it in this totally Unapologetic way that I think Hicks kind of absorbed you when I first saw Hicks is one of things he had a lot of Kennison in him like we all

173:51have um influences and when we're starting out we like you hear other comedians that you really love come out of your own mouth almost like with the intonations and the inflections and you almost kind of mimic them in your delivery and Hicks did a lot of that when I first saw him he was doing a lot of Kennison and it was interesting it's like this guy's clearly influenced and well one of the okay you don't know whether or not he was influenced by K or kenon was influenced by Hicks but most likely it's probably a little bit of both but more Kennison than anything cuz Kennison was much more successful earlier on like several years before Hicks really took off and was revolutionary when Kennison came on the scene he was completely revolutionary so I think him taking Hicks with him you know because they were part of that Houston group that originally expanded

174:42and then came to La I think uh he just showed that there's there's just some un undeniable power in being that controversial but on point CU it's what like standup is one of the it's like an original American art form isn't it it's like it's precedent prior to America like prior to being in the United States was not like that art form didn't exist in the same way like it's got gestures or gers rather or and musical it didn't exist in that kind of way and in a in a a manner like it's a very podcasting is a very natural medium for a comedian because it grants you that long form I've always thought like that you know the the more TR like it can be that the more truthful you are and the more articulate become the more you reduce your audience you know when you think of like like hitting up rooms of 2,500 people or 5,000 you know Arena gigs like if you want to go in Wade in there with

175:33gnome chumsky bloody quotes you better have a dick joke to finish with exactly yeah you got to have some way to connect those things with humor B almost like Scaffolding in between ideas yeah yeah you was the you got like that that's the thing I think about sort of like keeping the ball above a certain level and like in way this medium you are relieved of that you are allowed it's like oh F just sit back for a while listen for ages be the the the aspect of comedy that I think is so important of authenticity you know when people when you're startup comic people go oh you got to find your voice you got to find your authenticity and like you were saying that you hear the musicality of comedians you admire in your own voice that like if in when you're doing five minutes set or 10 or like it's it's extremely difficult isn't it to become robust enough with that but here I guess

176:21you get to really explore what you are authentically in a kind of a long safe form especially 10-minute sets those those little short sets you do it's those are just you mean you can get a bit out or a series of you know funny things that you can say but as far as like any real depth and part of what comes out that's really funny is like if you watch someone like Jim part of like what his comedy is is like you'll understand after you see him for 15 or 20 minutes oh this is how he makes fun of things this is his personality so you kind of get his Vibe and then another subject comes up and you're laughing before he even starts talking about it CU you're kind of following where he's going to take this yeah you've signed up to that I'll enjoy this perspective now yeah you're tuned in to his perspective kenon was a huge influence yeah I loved kenen yeah um he was the fir hands down he was

177:14Revolution it was like seeing Metallica For the First Time like what what look at the way these people are reacting I never saw an audience a comedy audience he made them nuts yeah he made them almost want to go in a mosh pit and to to no I don't think you Carlin would dance around being Catholic and and kind of expose things but not I mean Kennison comes out and he just in a Biblical way I thought I my mom tried to make me go to church and make me a good person I learned more about biblical and just how common sense wise listening to he made me think about he come out you know Jesus is never married no wife is going to BU the resurrection and he go into this whole thing about he leaves on a Friday he's with 10 of his friends his wife is pissed like where's H where's all those losers that call themselves disciples everyone that says I believe I believe we put up and feed I'm sick of

178:15it and I sat there went holy dude the common sense of this is why doesn't anyone talk about the common sense of this he just put it balls out there he can get away with it cuz he was a preacher and he knew the Bible and he knew everything about it and he would sit there and he comes home on Monday looks like his dirt all over his face and he sees his cross out on the lawn and she's like where you been Mr Savor as well H know nothing but I was dead F death composure I'm in the spiritual world and I got to get back cuz she don't know where I've been and then he went this whole thing about oh they doctored this whole Last Supper Jesus me am I goingon to am I going to uh betray you and he say oh suck my dick you know who the you are you already oh we can't write that we'll say drink of his blood and but just the common just he he dumbed it down to an made me really

179:17think about that yeah yeah this is it's also like we said about Metallica the force of his delivery was unprecedented no one had yelled out punch lines before the way he did it you married yeah you were you married how long you married two years good remember this face no one no one came at you like that but it was it was more than stick it was freaking hilarious and it made a lot of sense whenever whatever he did talk about the devil devil coming down and teaching you it's just dude it was is it was sick I remember him talking about well you said becoming famous cuz you know how hard it is you finish your show you trying to stay married CH comes up I want to St your day no ever know two fingers in your ass and me and my friends you to you can't even breathe in then you go home to your wife no one will ever know like well you know what you know I've married she's on her period

180:12and we got we're in the middle of really difficult time but thank you thanks for the off get the out of here here I'm out I'm out yeah he was he a real wild man he was like he introduced rock and roll sensibilities to that's what I was attracted to that whole Rock crazy loud energy well he was also so different than everything else at the time which was like to roll your sleeves up you know did you ever notice you know ever notice H how come when you get a cup of coffee they're you know there was like this sort of observational comedy boom back then and he came along just roaring monst he what his first bit ever on TV ever I think was the African bit which was huge here please help these poor children help these poor children and he comes out and he's G you I'm sick and tired of seeing these commercials try to make you feel guilty you're sitting there

181:08watching how can you sit there and your air condition room heat in your cupboard for for kind of sick you you can get dollar and he goes into the whole thing don't send them another thing they live in a desert don't send them money someone like me someone someone's going to go there I've come here uh we came here 500 miles and we realized uh we wouldn't have to travel this far a few people live where the food is come here you live in a desert come here taste it taste it it's sand going to be 100 years from now sand we got deserts in America too we just don't live in them two DS get the trucks get you the out of the desert that was one of the best examples like people always like there's a Trend now good comedy should always punch up comedy should always punch up nonsense comedy should be comedy it's it's it's just like rap music or gangster movies it's indecipherable you

182:10cannot decide what's funny and what's not funny and that is one of the best examples of it that African bit oh huge that changed my like he it's simple it's funny it's a real it's a real topic and I actually sat there and thought it went why don't why are they living in a desert are they like what's why can't they move this is stupid I don't get this why don't you help him you're right next to him don't feed him yet don't feed him yet didn't get the shot godamn light was not ready mosquito get the out of here such a great bit and again a great bit if if someone did it in 2016 but in the 84 it was revolutionary yeah 85 maybe maybe 85 revolutionary it's releasing you from the sanctimony there's too so much sancy that you're weighed down and you you're not able to have an authentic reaction there's so much of yourself that you're oppressing and it takes him and like you see the

183:12again to return to that archetypes conversation we had that the trickster the role of the trickster like comes up in Native American Myth is like the coyote or the Raven or they say that like even Christ is a trickster in moments in the B like this people go D that's not reality anymore like that's a tricker function to go like you know you know that there's a prescribed way that you're supposed to respond to that African commercial well look there's this alternative way of responding to it and to present it comedically it's so oh you freed me you freed me from reality it's like an unch and you know what's interesting about him did you ever read his brother's book Brother Sam no his brother wrote a great book about Sam and one of the things that he said is Sam's like emergence of who he is came out of a car accident he got hit by a truck when he was a little kid and it changed

184:04his personality radically he had a serious head injury wow he got knocked the out and came back fearless and that's a that's a common thing impulsiveness fearlessness and rage uh the these are con constant themes that come out of head trauma so it's interesting like one of the most important figures in the history of standup comedy might have literally been birthed because of trauma like physical brain trauma that's brilliant I never heard that what intervention it's a a brain damaged Pioneer yeah not for that head injury this whole scene would never have been discovered they said he was a different person like before that he was like quiet and shy and a normal kid and then bam he gets hit by a car put in the hospital the whole deal comes out of that he doesn't give a well he just tastes death I don't think that's it but he's still he's still becomes a

184:56preacher though right yeah like you know so what the he doing with that head trauma during the sermons but it was that was how he delivered oh and if you stay here in the name of Jesus he had this explosive sort of dynamic delivery and I mean I don't want to attribute all of it to to the head trauma because obviously there was some genius involved you definitely blew m i I'm a little no no no no it's not it's not a negative thing it's it's look I've I've dealt with a lot of brain trauma because I've know a lot of people that have gotten up from fighting you know it's there's a real thing that happens to people and you you hear about all the time when they do these shows on NFL players who become explosive and they they get crazy and impulsive and they get very violent and some of that has to do with repeated trauma to the Head well just one event one car accident one

185:48thing like that can literally change your personality because there's a very fragile Dynamic of synapses and personality neurochemicals the brain's actual like the flow of chemicals of of neurochemistry and the physical body itself and the way your personality manifests itself all those things are directly connected and an event like what happened to Sam Kennison literally reshaped in art form well about in people that a head trauma and suddenly can speak perfect French have you seen them on the Internet yeah what yeah they get knocked over the nut come back with perfect French it's a common phenomenon it can be checked out online anytime is that true I've know they they get really good at math I know they speak French so someone have to teach them FR it's almost worth the risk don't want a Bel little head trauma I mean definitely a downside as you've said you may come back extremely

186:40aggressive or you might have a headache forever that's also possible too some a lot easier and quicker it's a much quicker satisf action and getting them stupid books I don't have patience for them books foreign accent syndrome an accent a rare medical condition patient develop appears to be a foreign accent Chinese teacher wakes up stroke speaking English what about that how about that but that's a daily mail they might have just made that up so we'll click on it right now yeah um I don't know cuz I I do know we have to end this though unfortunally it's it's 420 joking how long have I been in here 40 can'ts I don't think I'm going to adjust to I've got to go and see my girlfriend and stuff and be like a normal person well you're going to have to continue doing podcast it's 4:20 what time do we come in here Jim and I have been here since 10: a.m. this is 5 hours

187:31this is like 6 hours yeah you and I have been doing this for six hours oh wow I got to make some calls too bad listen man if you're ever in here again you got an open invitation of course you know you have an open invitation any anytime man please we got to do this more often and you it thanks man all right you that's it I hope you enjoyed it bye-bye my mind my poor mind wow that was awesome