Doug Duren & Nathan Ihde

00:00in Creole they would say Dubai ladies and gentlemen Doug Duren I always wanted to do that i' never get a chance I always wanted you to do it man my man and uh you brought your friend Nathan I both you guys escaped the winter of Wisconsin which I'm representing right now Hunty t-shirt and um mating and Yannis pellis this is their company and matang sent me a code for people if you want to use this if you go to hunt to eat.com and I think it's the code word is just Joe Rogan all in one word I'm going to find it one second and if you do that I think you get 10% off hold on a second I'll find that real quick uh yeah Joe Rogan all caps 10% off Hunte and it's what is some of them are license plates this one's the Wisconsin one it's just a a circle shows the state little deer in iter around it our friends company and um great guys man the best nicest people they work for

01:05Steve Rella me eater and uh we know them well Doug Duran of course is my friend from Wisconsin and he brought his friend Nathan and yeah and and we're going to talk about some stuff and well it's just good to see you anyway but uh we're also going to talk about this one thing that came out today that I I tweeted that uh they found that there's a huge difference not just a little difference cuz people have always wondered like doesn't matter if you buy grass-fed food does it matter if you buy I mean what what does it really matter well it apparently it does there's a new study that found clear differences between organic and non-organic meat and milk and this is the largest study of its kind an international team of experts led by Newcastle University in the UK has shown that both organic milk and organic meat contain around 50% more beneficial omega-3 fatty acids than

01:55conventionally Pro uh produced products which is pretty fascinating because a lot of people have speculated that it's all BS that you go and you buy grass-fed this or grass-fed that it doesn't mean anything but it means a lot what you know what's interesting to me about it is uh so much of it for me is intuitive uh I grew up with cattle and it makes sense that a a ruminant a cow uh it eats grass you know that's what it eats and you start putting all this other stuff into it for instance corn soybeans and that sort of thing that's not what they were made to eat um and so then you take that a step further and have it be I think they're referring in this organic that they're talking about grass F yes and so they're they're eating what they're supposed to eat not what we somehow along the way decided well this is what they're going to eat corn or soybeans because they'll put on that fat

02:49that we all like so much speeds up the process yeah it does it speeds up the maturing process of the animal uh but not in a good way necessarily yeah it does so many so many bad things yeah it makes so much sense to me that uh from just from a common sense level that this is going to be the best thing for the animal and then down the way it's going to be the best thing for us um we're not forcing stuff on that animal that um that they wouldn't you know normally normally be eating they aren't going to eat it by choice but I will tell you if I uh I the cows they're not the ones that uh I had when you were out there but if I go out with the cattle that I have now that I bought uh about a year ago I bang two buckets together and they come running cuz they know the food's coming well because they used to be fed corn oh so these are animals that you purchased yeah that

03:42were already at maturity uh yeah they were breed cows so I was looking to get uh th those cattle that I had when you were there or that we had when you were there I sold we had a drought year and hay prices went through the roof and I had a uh had a barn and shed full of hay which was pretty valuable and the cattle were still pretty valuable so i s was able to sell those and then take the winter off and spent some time in Mexico what not CU I cattle but uh and then uh decided to get back into the game so now I've got a herd of herfords that I bought last year herd of what herfords what's a Herford Herford is a it's a breed that I think originated in Britain um and white face red animal so a lot of the ones that we had when you were there the last time were actually a Herford cross um so they were a Herford originally or the their original uh brood cows were herfords and then we

04:39bred them to like a Black Angus or a Red Angus crossb um to get some hybrid Vigor out of them and that sort of thing or what what is the difference what's the difference of of between different styles of cows or different breeds of cows wow um everything from the how they put on weight to how they look to um uh in the efficiency efficiency of how they'll put weight on um uh in if they're dairy cattle um some of the like gsies and jerseys and that sort of thing um they won't produce as much milk but it'll have a real high butter fat content um so well that's fascinating with the same food so with the same feeding them the same thing different cows produce different butter fats yeah uh so Holstein which is the the the sort of the traditional uh dairy cow big black and white thing you know you've seen them on everything uh they're a big animal big bone you know

05:38really tall big animal um and they sort have the ability to kind of eat they're not as picky eater um they produce a lot of milk but it'll have a lower butter fat can't believe I'm talking about Dairy I mean I've been out of the dairy business since 1988 but uh well it's fascinating stuff most most people have no idea and I had no idea different cows will produce a different level of dairy fat oh no that's exactly right and then butter fat is what a farmer is paid on it so 100 PB which is is about 8 pounds to the gallon um and and in milk you're paid by the pound um 100 lb of 3.5% butter fat for instance is not worth as much as 100 lb of 4.5% butter fat so there's this whole calibration system they use to do that so you know milk's being Ted all the time both uh organic grass-fed uh managed pasture raised and you know more modern if you will um the uh confined

06:44animal uh facilities where they're you know milking I don't know a thousand cows in a real small area and very you know confining them to a very small area um where uh Nate and I both grew up uh and you saw Farm a lot of pasture fields that sort of thing so the cattle are kind of walking around doing their thing out on pasture they come in at in the evening you you'd feed them U sort of a supplement of it might be grain or it might be hay it you know might be these various things and it kind of depended that all evolved over time um and in my lifetime and and you were always sort of aiming to get the most out of each one of those animals and depending on how you looked at the science um you know people spent their whole lives studying how to get the most out of a cow um depending on how you looked at that science um you made decisions about that well when I

07:39was a kid there was a lot more of and I mean a kid like in the 60s in the early 60s there was a lot more common sense involved um and now it's much more like in those big milking operations that sort of thing it's more science it's like how here's how we can get the most out of them well so you remember this shift between what was like normal farming normal Dairy farming normal meat cow farming to this thing that we're seeing now that most people have real big problem with this factory farming installations where you have these cows jammed into these warehouses and chickens and the same thing with pigs and the thing those are the things that people have a real issue with when they see them on television and they see YouTube videos you do you remember this shift oh God yeah um so I was I'm 57 years old I was born in 1959 by the time I was old enough to drive a tractor

08:31which is when you're about four years old where I'm from you were driving a tractor at four well you're sitting there steering it anyway and you know going through the field when they're wiconsin I was six I was six when I when I jumped up so do you remember this like oh yeah and so when I was a kid um do you remember where we shot when where we had that shooting range set up by my house that little kind of uh was a old Foundation there that was a chicken coup okay we had chickens there there was a Grainery in between the little building that we finally call the keep out shed now because it's the security there just says keep out on the door um that was a a facility where we raised pigs and then we had a rolling herd of about um 40 m cows and they were holes and so it was a diverse Farm was a diverse ecosystem if you will and I don't know uh during the Nixon

09:25Administration uh Earl Butz who was the secretary of agriculture then came out and said get bigger get out and that was really the beginning of the end of the small family farm what do you mean like he said he said this like was it a statement on the on television or like what how did this go down uh boy I'm sure you it could be found somewhere but uh get bigger get I that's just the it was part of yeah it was a or a press conference or something to that effect that that was going to be the move in agriculture you know and it was a long process I mean I remember um our exit if you will from the the dairy sector um ours came in the late 90s so there was a big shift you know just for example my my grandfather was running the farm in 1977 and the milk price was like4 or $15 per hundred weight when my dad was forced to sell in I think it was 98 or 99 it was like nine bucks you know

10:27so you're trying to raise a family family and continue a legacy and you're getting paid dirt you know so what caused that that shift big agriculture yeah it was systematic you know was a systematic shift to the corporate and there's some sense I want to say there's some sense in it but that's probably not uh a completely I mean you understand that eff fish is getting you know it's it's the American way you get bigger you get there's efficiencies in the in in scale but I'm trying to understand like what was the motivation was it that populations were booming because there's a lot more people today yeah I mean I think we looked at it up the other day I think in the n in 1970 there was something like 150 million people in this country now there's 300 million yeah yeah that's not that long ago I mean that's in my lifetime and that's crazy that's crazy that the population's

11:20doubled and the demand for food obviously doubled as well you know something that's really interesting if you look at that area where you came out and visited exact the opposite has happened in population there there's half as many people in our area as they were as there were it's a farm area and it's a farm area um so the small farm the Family Farm is what's really suffering because they it's so hard to make ends meet with these gigantic operations that are just yeah is that well they can you know I mean it makes sense you know on a on a business scale you can afford to sell a product cheaper if you're doing it bigger but the things you lose there are the quality and the the sustainability and environmental impact of the process you know you got these big farms who basically they they have they got make more product but they also make more yeah you know and that's a water

12:12issue um well that was a big part of that documentary cow spiracy where they were trying to talk about the methane that's produced by cows the methane and just the just getting rid of the actual cow itself like you're talking about massive massive quantities and when I was when I was and even now the manure that's produced on our farm like now in the winter I'm feeding hay and they're confined would be a little kind of a strong word they stay around where the hay is you know and and we've got fresh water there for them and it's spring water and I can talk about that later but they stay in that area um and so that's where also where they're you know and and so you I end up piling that stuff up and I pile it up and I compost it and I put it on everything from a community garden nearby to our fields to um people want to come by and say Hey man can I get a can I get a load

13:05of and U and sure as heck you know I give it to them whereas for that for a big facility it's where do we get rid of this right right yeah what I'm one of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you about this is because I think that um most of us that when I say us like people that live in cities have almost no idea of how all this stuff works and when when when people examine it or they try to watch a documentary on it or try to figure out like uh how how cows are raised one of the things we get confused about is H stop playing with that segment we get confused about is how did it happen like how did these things become these gigantic sort of operations where it seems so so inhumane well it's it you know it it's it's a business model it's business model like uh corporations like Banks like everything it's the same it's the same idea interestingly to me in our

14:10area and and and Nate and some of the folks that he knows are example and I am to a a lesser extent um because it's just a little bit different on our farm it's not something where I'm trying to make a living at it you know um that it's starting to go the other very much has gone the other way things like Community sported Agriculture and those sort of things are happening um that people want to know their farmer right so there's like a a a blowback so people are realizing that there's something kind of crazy about these factory farming setups and so now they're trying to get their meat more from Organic Farms but how much more expensive is it say like with one of your Farms I sell bulk any I consider bulk anything over 50 pounds um for 650 a pound so like a family could come to you and buy directly oh yeah absolutely and do you do you sell most of your stuff directly

14:59or do you sell it to like a wholesaler or how does that work what I try to do is and and my whole goal with my meat production I mean we do a lot of other things we'll maybe get into later but um the meat production I I try to take care of a certain amount of families you know and when they need meat I have it I'm not really I don't Market it I mean it's all I have customers and they come to me when they want meat so it's like a word of mouth type thing and some people buy a quarter you know which is like 100 to 150 lb sometimes and some people will come buy 20 lbs when they need it you know now I have a buddy who uh is a fireman who does that he has like a a deal with a local Rancher and he buys like the him and a couple other families that he's friends with they'll go in on like a side of beef they'll go in on like a whole half of a cow yeah and you

15:45know they they they save money that way and then they know they're getting like real organic grass-fed cows like with that nice yellow fat yeah yeah I have to tell you this story um some years ago when we were raising beef uh one of the things that I did for my uh my ex-wife and I did for my brother and sister-in-law was gave them a a quarter of a beef for Christmas and uh I thought I was being real clever you know the steers at that time kind of all had the same name they were the the heer Cales the female calves I give them different names or different numbers and everything because we keep them around but the steers all had the same name and that was dinner and a steer for people don't know so a cow that has its balls room the male male cow so unic yeah and uh and there's a lot of there's a lot of good reasons for doing that um and just so nobody says so you're knocking this

16:39thing down and cutting its nuts off well yeah that is what we're doing but when we knock it down we actually sedate it it goes to sleep um it wakes up and it's singing soprano I mean that's how that how that works and they jerk a little bit though when you what well yeah well you too I would imagine I don't care sedated or not right but um but and so yeah that is what a steer is so I'm sorry the story was that uh so we gave uh Sarah art these uh this quarter of beef and um we were making a presentation of it and they had uh the the neighbors over uh and so everybody's sitting around the table and there's a couple of girls young women maybe 10 and 14 something like that I don't remember their exact ages but I had this polary picture of of that steer and said you know and had it in quotations dinner and and made a presentation of well we gave you this meat and here's this wonderful

17:39steak that we're having and everything and here's the before and here's the after apparently I turned one of those girls into a vegetarian there I and I felt horrible about it well you're you've been there from the beginning from the time you really young you've been there from I mean it's a part of your life yeah right you've always been around cows you've always been around cattle it seems totally normal to you but to somebody that just is used to going to the supermarket and buying a steak that comes neatly wrapped in Saran wrap on a nice little foam tray you're kind of freaking them out with reality and I learned something that day about it but some of the folks that buy um meat from me they come out and they take a look at the place and you know I mean you've been there you've been there not maybe the nicest time of the year because it was cold and and all

18:29of that and the cattle weren't out on pasture we had them confined in the Barnard um and they're out walking around they're laying on the hillside they're chewing their cut man it's just they're just happy as they can be and and and they're looking at me and they're looking at the cattle and so I'm going to have some of that meat and it's just like there's that connection you know no if I don't get anything else across here during this conversation I'd encourage people to know their farmer know the guy who's raising that uh whatever it is ex vegetables or meat or whatever for him well it's very difficult for someone who is not used to the idea of an animal being alive and then being dead and then cut up and then portioned into steaks and then cooking it people that are used to going to the supermarket and buying it already done for them to be sort of uh forced to look

19:16at that whole process as an adult is is a little disconcerting for a lot of people because we're we're faced with this very convenient world where we're completely detached from any of this stuff now as a guy who's been around it your whole life that's got to be kind of frustrating when you see the hypocrisy of people who eat the meat but really kind of don't want to know where it came from yeah hypocrisy is the only sin you know in my world uh it's kind of the way I feel about it um but I don't know NE necessarily that's a hypocrisy hypocrisy as much as it's just ignorance MH and um and I you know I also want to say I don't take it lightly at all we load up a cow or a steer or whatever I put them on there man it's just like when we shoot Wildlife you know we kill Wildlife something like that it is we did a thing and or you're doing a this is a big thing there's a reverence a reverence

20:12for there is a rever that's exactly the right word there's a reverence to it that um you have in these smaller situations I mean I could see where if I had 500 steers that I'm raising to 1,250 lbs they might not have the same reverence uh to those animals but they're giving me something you know I'm taking it from them but that's my deal you know well that's similar the similar argument when you're talking about large populations of people that there's sort of this diff Fusion of responsibility that comes with interacting with 20 million people versus 20 people when you're around 20 people you have a talent of 20 people you know everybody you know and the relationships are kind of important whereas 20 million people you give the finger to somebody on the road what the idea you're never going to see again you hope not right but if you're in cenovia and you see that down the

20:59street from you that leaves the the nasty uh voicemail messages you you'll never forget that get that one that guy was crazy you played that for us that was seared into our head but you know that you you have you you're forced into a relationship with that person and you have to manage that relationship when you have you know how many cows you have now uh well I have 20 head running around yeah so if you have 20 cows like what when you have to and even you know when you do the deed you're not you're you're really not saying I have to kill this C like but you're saying when we load one up when we do the deed you know there's all these euphemisms for what you're doing you're going to kill this cow yeah it's like it's a maybe that's because of the fact that there's so many of them or the rather there's so few of them that you have this you know this is like a it's a

21:48big moment it is a big moment you know I I sold a a cow this fall that um through no fault of her own had a prolapse cervix and if you want know what that is essentially her uh cervix pushed out and no matter how many times you push it back in and sew things up she's going to continue to push so she's not going to be productive um and her productivity is to have calves um and I felt terrible about it didn't mean I didn't do it I mean I know where I knew you mean do it mean kill her well I didn't kill her but yeah I me put well yeah yeah yeah and and um and I'm not uh I'm not passing that responsibility off to somebody else from the standpoint of well I don't want to do it so I have somebody else do it I'll do it when it needs to be done but when we're uh Nate and I both are selling uh you're selling meat to people there's regulations that go along with it I mean I can't just like drop a

22:48cow in the in the bar you know in the in the in the driveway of the barn hang her up cut her up and start selling Joe Rogan meat um there's USDA inspection and all that so we both send our uh animals to very small uh family run uh slaughter houses butcher shops and they do so you don't necessarily kill them yourself no no no no never oh you know you know if something you were doing one for yourself you would yeah yeah um and have so if you want to sell it then you have to go through these have the stamp and yep um inspection yeah and and there's you know a standard to that now I would confidently never sell you any of my beef if I butchered it myself but I would confidently give it to you and say this is as I mean you've seen how we do it out there um this is basically just government regulations that you have to follow yeah but I mean there's a standardization and I'm all I'm down

23:48with that there's there's a pretty cool movement going on the the place I go to is is called driftless meets in veroa and and it's a it's a really like when they bring in a cop like one of the big problems with these slaughter houses Joe is you know a lot of them you you bring your cow in the night before and there's who knows how many cows jammed into a pen and they're stressed out they're rutting around bumping each other these guys up there I think the max they take in on a Slaughter day is four and so these cows got their own pen you know it's very stressfree it's very relaxed you know so the process and and that's what's so important about all of this and the sustainability and environmental impact it's all the process you know it's fortunately there's a a really strong movement in that sector of the the processing is going on you know conscious Conor is a is a place

24:40near us a facility near us and I just I think that's a very important way of putting it um you know the guys from uh conspiracy there was a lot I agreed with those me too yeah that's what unfortunate about the exaggeration of some some of their claims because I think that if they just stuck with what's absolute and reality it's very disturbing the sustainability doesn't look good you know but what's what's interesting is look here's some things that you disagree with strongly it's one of the reasons why we got into this conversation one thing the amount of acreage that it takes yeah to grow a cow raise a cow I did uh I've been in looking at my own uh cattle one but then also spending some time with our W extension it's the egg people at at through our University you know land grant University 1.4 1.4 to 14 depending on how yeah that's a that's a big difference and

25:41that's a huge difference these guys were saying 50 acres yeah no one agrees with that I've in certain places it probably is though look it have to be like desert but wasn't that guy the guy they said was from Wisconsin was from South Dakota didn't you tell me yeah there was he made a reference on this and you know I'm not I don't want to pick all their numbers apart they're not ranchers so I think what happens is someone told them that that sounds great they went with it yeah yeah you know and this is is like look they made a great documentary but when you make a documentary you also have a great responsibility like they have an agenda it's very clear their agenda is the promote veganism it's because they feel very strongly about it whether you agree with it or whether you don't agree with it that's their point of view that's what they're trying to get through in this documentary is that

26:22if you just grow vegetables and you live off vegetables you don't need as many acres you could feed more people and it's a way to do it that's that's just their their perspective and their point of view so they sort of they they lean towards that in a very strong way while highlighting some irrefutable facts that are very disturbing and that's that's the shame of it is cuz you know they're environmentalists too you know that's that's obvious but you know it kind of put off the vibe that you know people like Doug and I aren't you know and that's the problem is as you look at the big the big corporations that are you know feeding off of all this you know misinformation really and and the what do you mean by the big corporations that are well well you talk about the big you know the big farms you can talk about in any industry you know um it's kind of a

27:06disjointed effort you know you got these guys talking about this you got these guys talking about this we're all concerned about the environment you know but some of this stuff came off as an attack on you know beef production cattle livestock production but we all agree on certain things I think if you really want to focus and you want to make a change in the world find way to work together yeah but their their change is don't eat animals I know don't kill animals so you got to compromise but they don't want to compromise they're not interest comprom problem well there's there you there's very strong connections between veganism and religion and if you look at a lot of their ideologies they're very similar in a lot of ways to religious zealots like they they have these ideas they want to promote them that and only that and this is this is the way they want to go about

27:55it and you know some some of them say crazy like I've had these conversations with people on Twitter this guy was saying that human beings are not meant to eat meat we're we're herbivores like well that's just not true show show them your teeth Doug well not only but forget about the K9 teeth that's absolutely true but how about the fact that scientists have done very clear studies on Ancient humans and the reason why we became human in the first place is the consumption of meat it it literally changed the amount of brain tissue we have and then hunting changed how crafty people had to be it changed the innovation of of these lower primates these lower hominids they they had to innovate they had to figure out tools they had to figure out weapons not just to defend themselves from humans but in order to hunt animals this is a this is an irrefutable fact essential

28:42part of evolution yeah it is so their I think if I could speak for them if I could play The Devil's Advocate their point of view is now we have evolved to a point where we don't need to do this anymore we don't need meat anymore we're very intelligent we're also aware we're also faced with this overwhelming amount of evidence this overwhelming amount of information that we have now because of the internet because of our access to it we've never had before so you can look at some of the statistics and some of the things they brought up and you could say well this is their argument for promoting a vegan lifestyle see I can go with that it's what what the problem is that a lot of these guys they they say things like human beings can't process meat or we had this guy that Rob wolf was arguing on Twitter who said animal fat is toxic what the are you talking about how do Inuits live how how

29:35they've been around forever they just eat nothing but fat these people and if you look at their diet and you look at what their their their diseases the only Inuits that are getting cancer are the ones that are smoking cigarettes that's true it's our our nasty Western habit that we passed up to these poor people that's how they're getting cancer and they're getting cancer in in higher numbers than they ever have before because they weren't getting it before at all these people were eating blubber and fat and seals and and whatever fish they could get and they can't grow a goddamn single vegetable and they weren't getting cancer the the cancer thing that's a that's a great issue cuz the Recently I don't know if if you've caught the the whole red meat and cancer thing and they they they came out and they said you know definitely your Smoked Meats and your your cured meats like our Meats

30:19aren't cured you know it's what do you mean but by cured let's about what you're talking about like sodium nitrate like when you make bacon like if you took a package of my bacon and looked at the label I think there's three or four ingredients in mine you look at a what it like what are those ingredients um water pork you know uh and uh it's like celery salt you know right which is how it should be yeah so the problem is your bacon if you sat on a shelf Nar o Oscar Meer bacon if you put them both on the same shelf and sat for a week Oscar Meer will look the same yours would start to fall apart mind would need to be frozen yeah you know that's the only thing normal right like why do we think flesh is just gonna sit around and not fall apart at 39 degrees or whatever your refrigerator is it's not going to that's not how it goes and the so the cancer thing and and I get that you know

31:08I mean that stuff probably is linked to cancer but they've pulled back on the red meat in general they're not sure about it but the thing is and I think the study is skewed because you you talk about cancer and pH okay you know grass-fed beef has a neutral pH cornfed grain-fed beef that pH goes up up and and we know that cancer thrives in a acidic environment environment you know and you know there's other things the the cows that have high acid guts basically is what it is they're more prone to acidosis which which needs more medication you need antibiotics um and it's also a prime Harbor for ecoli the uh I I'll find a sta for you but the eoli it's I think it was 6,300,000 um milligrams per I'll look that up I'll chime back in you guys talk that's an important okay yeah yeah go ahead look that up but um it's a very important point I think you're making about um about how these

32:11animals that are unhealthy it's kind of unhealthy to eat an unhealthy animal that seems logical that is one of the points that uh I I found really interesting about about the the documentary was how these guys spoke about um cattle aren't intended to eat and I couldn't agree with more that was corn and soybeans could agree with them more that's why I eat grass right now they're eating and yours tastes very different by the way you know you gave me uh a couple ribe eyes last time I took them home they were Damn Delicious and lean and a a nice dark red meat and that's how a cow's supposed to be when you get these cows that when you get beef from a store you're getting this really light red meat it's very light almost like a pinkish meat and you compare that to like like some one of the elk steaks I have it back those elk steaks are like a red like a dark almost like a purple you

33:03know it's just overflowing with testosterone and and you know and an elk C or whatever the hell they got in their bodies I mean that's a healthy animal well that's exactly right and that animal is choosing to eat uh an elk is choosing well it's obviously a product of his environment so it's eating what's available just like a white tailed deer is I remember when uh when you and Brian were out and uh I I think Brian held up of the backstrap steaks that and he goes oh my God this is like shashimi grade better when we cooked that on your kitchen oh my God we just butter salt and garlic and we we we grilled up some of those and we were all eating I'm going good Lord it was from an animal that you shot what 3 hours ago yeah I mean it's incredible yeah you talking about fresh oh my god um I do have that count there it is um remember he's my numbers guy are you are you

33:58he he brought Nathan here to know the flight information what's the hotel room what time's the podcast with this I'm you know this is fun Doug but come on I've got a family back home uh so this now we're talking Sals per gram of meat okay okay so in your grain fed the count of eoli the grain fed in the count of eoli 6,300,000 cells per gram in the grass-fed 20,000 holy yeah yeah holy and it's all about the environment that you're creating by what you're putting into this thing it's unnatural that is crazy unal that is crazy crazy numbers wow and so these guys and and I you know what I'd love to have them come to the farm and talk to me and just I don't think they want to be around your house of murder dougy dog the Doug Duran House of murder oh well tell take him out around than giving right around opening day and they can hear the war zone we grow veggies too you know where

35:04Doug lives opening day like in the morning when we were out we were out in the uh the Blind and as soon as the Sun starts peeking up over the horizon you hear Boom Boom you hear it off in the distance I'm like dude are we at War why is there a picture of me that's gross I got a was as sleep I know man I kind of like it thank you very much um I'm sharing a room with this guy yeah the um that's that was a a weird experience it was the first time it ever been a PL where a when I had gone hunting before uh it had before that time it had only been in the wild in Missouri in the brakes where there was no people when we were in your area in cenovia it's like everybody is so geared up for it when we stopped at that sporting good store and got tags and got got some equipment like yeah everybody was rip RAR roaring ready to go like tomorrow is like the opening day of a

36:01race yeah it was weird yeah a deer per second opening day in Wisconsin is shot a deer per second well that's a testament to how many there are well yeah we we read a statistic in about Minnesota about how many car accidents are in Minnesota was it Michigan Michigan Michigan has a 100,000 car accidents a year from people hitting deer just stop for a second ladies and gentlemen and you tell me you don't think they need to kill some deer there's a 100,000 a year I'm pretty sure that's the number I should probably like be careful if I keep repeating it over over A lot's there's a lot there's more than five a year what's the number 50,000 damn it I was so close 80% of these crashes occur on two lane roads between Dusk and Dawn 50,000 what is the amount of uh animals that uh kill people okay here the states 2 million deer yeah two million deer in one State how many people are in

37:10Michigan more than two million but not a whole lot more and I think in Wisconsin cattle out folks they're dropping by the day with that 9.9 million holy that's insane so they're 20% deer so would that mean is here's the reality you literally could feed that entire State off the deer population that's real because one deer you eat a deer for months and one deer is going to make more than one deer I think that is a really interesting point and it kind of goes along with some of my agreement with these guys uh we're not we're subsidizing the dollar meal or whatever you know the dollar hamburger and and uh and that kind of like quick meat drive through you get the burger and off you go yeah um I'm not what I would advocate for is that I'm okay with eating less meat uh they had Michael pollen he talked about eating less meat based on the numbers that they were using which I think was

38:12like it was it was I think it was 0.6 something I think is what they said on the movie so like a half a half a pound of meat a day well it was more than that it was 0.6 something I believe so you're talking no that's what that's what the average American eats evidently I would more than n but sure yeah I Balan that out you bring the average up well you got to think about the guys you know we've all seen these guys you know Charlie chicken fingers and slobber McGee you know eating fast food fingers you've seen these guys eat right you know you're like watch out you're going to eat your finger dude slow down addicted to food man that's what we're that's what we're dealing with cuz the the real sickness isn't the that we're raising meat it's the demand you know so farmers are rising to meet that demand and people aren't demanding good meat they're demanding shitty cheap meat that

39:04they can buy for 99 sense one of the things that these folks were addressing in that documentary that I think didn't get to the heart of it all but the the heart of it all really is the amount of human beings the the only reason why look if there was only if if cenovia was the world you wouldn't need a factory farm you sure wouldn't you wouldn't need it I mean sovi is essentially a sustainable environment all you need is some solar power some windmills for electricity you got your own spring you got your water you can get from a well you got your cattle that graze that you have more than enough food for you you could grow your own vegetables you can what you don't have in the winter you know or you don't you know what what you want to last through the winter and you're good but the we have too many goddamn people right even that it often comes down to people keep and that's kind of what

39:56is fun I'm a fan of it when are we going home what's can we get an early flight tomorrow me too man well I have three kids so I should shut the up because I'm I'm obviously making more people than I am are they all boys are they all boys all girls man they're my best friend Gatlin he he's got five boys you five it's one thing to have five kids but to have them all be boys that's like you're talking exponential they're just going to shoot JZ all through all the all the land and make more boys well the cool thing is and Doug and I have been talking about this and and he met mentioned earlier like we're sitting here talking about this really interesting stuff cuz we don't want to come off on this podcast as a bunch of you know knuckle Dragon mouth Breer mouth you're definitely not you're definitely not so but we're we're talking about this let's be careful down we're we're talking

40:44about all this stuff in the middle of La where you got a guy dressed like Spider-Man and all these these women wearing you know well by the way that's why we're way out here in the suburbs you know I don't want to be around that yeah not a good you putting us down there though a great time there no yeah no it's perfect well it's a good place to you know just to watch people watch yeah but one thing we've been we've been talking about a lot of a lot of awesome people and really digging deeper into this but there's guys like you know Doug can expand on this more because he's read more of the book but this guy Mark Shepard and other guys I mean people contend that that we can raise enough food sustainably but part of that equation is you and and that's what maybe we could unify with these guys like guys from conspiracy is you know let's not talk about ending meat that's

41:30an unachievable goal that's never going to happen let's talk about educating people say hey let's not eat quite so much so we can sustain you know okay but just to play Devil's Advocate because a lot of these guys are they're they love of animals they love animals they're animal lovers they they they it's almost like yeah so are we but they they they do it in a way where they don't want animals to die they want those animals to die of old age only um the the problem I think there's there an IDE ology attached to veganism where once they stop eating meat they want everybody else to stop too well you're talking about 95% of the world that eats meat it's 95% something crazy like that please always check my numbers Jam off by 100% did you have the day off to those guys Co yeah but you know that why if if these guys this is to play Devil's Advocate if these guys can stop eating

42:25meat and become vegans why can't the world and I think that's what a lot of people are saying well other things I would agree with with them have a garden yes yeah grow some food on your balcony in the city you know we have a couple of mutual friends who are growing stuff on their balcony in New York City that's different yeah well I don't know one thing I noticed in that movie was dude's hydroponic system on the roof thought was empty my hydroponic system at home is conspiracy guys Hy picked up kind up you know and we're not here punches well they could have just started it and just set go buy some plants and put them in there for sake one of my favorite stories is these former uh FBI agents who were uh retired and they were arrested because they were growing hydroponic plants and vegetables in their basement and you know the DEA passes by houses and they scan these

43:16people bought hydroponic equipment when you buy hydroponic equipment they flag you and they follow you it's so insane that growing vegetables has become a crime because so many people grow a pot they assume that if you're growing a plant with some sort of a plant system that you must be calling an illegal drug so with no evidence whatsoever two former FBI agents they break down their Door Guns a blaz in and they arrest these people and then find out they're growing tomatoes yeah that's it's kind of a hot button deal going on in Reedsburg right now where my hometown yeah my buddy Gatlin I already mentioned him but he's got a on a whim I mean this dude is a he's a successful appraiser real estate appraiser but he's always looking for that home run you know so he's making a living but he's taking his cuts and so now his latest Venture he took his whole

44:04tax return and just turned his this this building that he couldn't lease into a hydroponic Wonderland and weed no well when it comes legal he's going to be ready to rock and roll and he wants to do CBD oil extraction I mean you know he's the government's going after that now right so but you get these people walking by and we got these purple lights and people are what are they growing in there you know and everybody's and every thinks we're growing weed and it's like if we're growing weed the cops would have the door kick down two weeks ago maybe they should put a sign we're not growing weed you well he just need to get a sign up that is a sign that you should put it's called uh it's called grow lucky you can Google it I think it's grow luckyg greens.com it's all pretty new but I would definitely assume that guy know the weed is yeah yeah grow lucky greens yeah with that name how

44:47lucky can I get how much for an ounce of your lucky man let's talk about this downstairs but uh come to the special room yeah anyway that idea of of of growing the garden and people taking responsibility for their food um you know is such a big deal and and those uh the fellas that you had in here um that's you know where I'm I'm joining at the hip with them about that yeah I think we're all we're all in agreement with that and there's a guy named Ron Finley that I had on before who was awesome and he's a proponent of urban gardening and what he does is he takes medians like you know that you just see grass and in in La grows plants in them he grows vegetables foods and he does it in uh abandoned Lots he'll he'll set up Gardens in abandoned lots and he does it all throughout South Central and he has people that live in these communities growing their own food and he had this

45:37amazing point that I never considered before he's like you drive down this street and you see bushes you see trees you see all these plants and you can't eat none of it he goes we're wasting water on we can't even eat he goes you could have food growing in the same places you have all of these trees why don't we do that and I was thin and there're going why don't we do that like an too Lawns yeah right an orange tree looks great well that's exactly but that's exactly right aesthetically pleasing on top of it all this you got to get them some of these pictures food this guy uh Mark Shephard who's from our area and and he doesn't know me from the man and the moon but this is his book restoration restoration agriculture uh real world per permaculture for it's uh aerial photographs of his farm artwork and it and it looks exactly it looks like a landscape architect was involved

46:29um layering of plants starting with the tallest trees down to annuals eventually um at the same time he's pasturing through there um three and four different kinds of animals um they're cleaning up the the uh they're cleaning up the nuts that uh they didn't you know they didn't Harvest which is very important clean your nuts that's what I'm saying Bar N most important unless you're in a weird some people like dirty things that's where you get minerals all right nut butter dirt who is this his stuff so check that out that's amazing Isn't that cool that's gorgeous and so this is uh it says New Forest form Mark Shepard permaculture what does it say there's the words abbreviated there permacultural apprenticeship program I think he does classes and stuff oh oh that's cool and the amount of food he can pull off that Joel and that's and and they graze that then so and he talks

47:22about what do you mean uh cows graze that yeah they and and pigs and chickens um so so grass in between so he says and and maybe Doug can find this but I've got it the amount of food he can grow on there and he talks about just how many vegetables he's like but if you're only growing vegetables you're going to have to mow this stuff so it makes sense to it's a and that's the whole thing you got to complete the loop you got to complete the cycle you got to close that Loop and and find that ecological Harmony that's the that's the whole thing two photos ago Jamie don't go through those so quick right there bam make that bigger whoa what's he's got little ponds in there too yeah and so the cattle Grays in the grass area and then in between the grass he's got trees that grow food wow that's beautiful too and he brings pigs and chickens through and this is near you not far away Viola or

48:11Vera veroa go to it now it's a big ice skating rink yeah frozen tundra let's go let's go in June his point being that when we grow one crop on a farm field corn soybeans organic or otherwise or uh vegetables um that sort of thing that in our area in the winter then that's a desert I mean once the corner once the beans come off that's what it is I mean you saw the deer come out into the field and they eat a little bit of the stuff and you know and all that and guys will pasture out on that but it really does become a you know it's sort of that one trick pony which to a certain degree vegetable gardening will be as well although you can rotate crops through um but like on my place we're growing livestock we're enriching the soil we're um we're our pasture is getting better all the time because we're not over pasturing in any particular place um there's carbon

49:04sequestering going on what's that mean carbon sequestering uh locking up the carbon in the soil So like um with composting and things along those lines yeah there's there's people the at contend that that cattle and proper Management in the pasture rotation that they can start to turn back the the climate change you know it's how would that work by by sequestering the carbon starting to pull it pull it out and and when we till you know the constant tillage is that's that's one of the you know that's a no no you know a lot of no tilling a lot of rotational grazing that's that's up and up I mean that's where we need to be multiple benefits from one action so I'm pasturing and you saw some of the pasture some of the places where you hunted it was pasturing there's wildlife in there we've got good clean water when we uh went to a point on our farm where we weren't over pasturing and it was

50:00just something that we you know we sort of learned the streams were real wide um when we were over pasturing they were they were really wide uh the water was shallow and it was warm no trout as time has gone by and we weren't over pasturing anymore those streams narrow up because there running water that's going to cut that and and those it starts to fill in the grass starts to grow now you stepped across a cek that you used to have to walk through mhm um so there's trout in there now um the cattle are going in there and they're eating a certain amount of the grass um we keep them you know we keep moving them through um they're eating a certain amount of the grass or keeping some of the invasive species down uh deer are still living in there song birds are still living there game birds are still living in there all of those things are happening and the uh plants themselves

50:54are pulling the CO2 you know the whole photosynthetic process pulling that out and putting it back into the ground where it belongs um it to counteract some of that so gee I think I'm getting like three or four different positive results from having uh pasture um you know Hickory Orchard with some bigger trees in that sort of thing this dude with permaculture starts to add multiple other things layers of so if you think about an acre of land like this table and if you're growing one crop on it one vegetable crop you've got an acre of land 43,560 ft of that particular vegetable or that groups of vegetables but with the idea of permaculture you have uh your upper layers trees Big Trees you know big uh oak trees and uh uh you know you might you might have Hickory for Hickory nuts and that sort of things type things and yeah uh well to begin with with that

51:52upper level so on that same you know chunk of ground you've got this Arch tree it's producing wood which this looks like a good oak table here that we're leaning on you know it's the same sort of thing the next layer is the smaller trees like app you know fruit trees and that sort of thing below that below that are are shrubs that are going to be uh uh you know uh service Berry um choke Berry aronia um some of the some of the U antioxidant producing uh uh fruits um and then you go down to the next layer which is going to be things like asparagus and rhubarb and it keep coming down so now instead of just that one plane of of plants growing you've got on that same acre you've just growing multiple Acres of food and that is just something that needs to be you know thought about in the bigger thing he's then rotating through four different kinds of animals you running beef through

52:46it um and they're not in there all the time because so it takes management um after beef he's run and it's called a leader follower grazing system um after beef he's running pigs through it cuz pigs are a great cleanup animal um after that comes turkeys and turkeys are cleaning up the grubs and the whatnot in the from the from the cows and and the uh pigs uh he run sheep in it and last might be chickens so the intensity the intensity of of management is incredible and the amount of uh layers of food that are coming off of that and then layers of acreage well so suddenly we're getting you know in his I'm getting three or four benefits out of it he's still getting all that carbon sequestering and all that um but now he's built that up to 10 or 12 different positive results from the same thing and one of them is from a wildlife perspective which is one of the things

53:40that gets talked about all the time you grow a you have you Garden at home I Garden at home what's the one thing that every Garden that has Wildlife around it has a fence if you're going to grow vegetables for uh profit or for fun and put your effort into it you can put a you're going to put a fence around it you're going to exclude Wildlife from that exactly well and that's one of the main contentions we had when we sat down we're like okay this is going to be tough these guys put forth a really good narrative and had some really IR fitable facts but one of the things we talked about the water talked about the acreage but the wildlife thing one thing that they said was and where these livestock are are living that is that is area void of wildlife I mean I look at my pasture from the soil microbes and the worms to the bug and butterflies to the you know

54:28field mice and moles and we've got Hawks and we've I mean we see a badger and a fox I mean that's Wildlife you know they had a very idealistic point of view they didn't understand wolves they didn't understand management of wolves they didn't understand the the reason why they're starting to open up hunting seasons on W they also didn't know that Idaho is one of the most Wildlife rich places in the country where people go and Hunt elk and mule deer I mean Idaho is filled with animals and they thought that Idaho is like you know it's all Farms now it's devoid of they just it's a idealized sort of hippie vegan approach which you know they're just leaning towards that it doesn't matter doesn't mean they don't have great points absolutely oh yeah no that's what we're saying it was a tough it was a tough tough thing to do you know to to come out and and be a Counterpoint for

55:16something that you agree with a lot of I think what their main bone and I think a lot of people I mean it's it's the factory farming thing what we're talking about here I don't think it's sustainable for the population of Los Angeles and what you're talking about here with this kind of a farm man you would need a giant Farm like that to feed Los Angeles or a lot of them a lot of smaller Farm all but you would mean so many of them I don't know how much they produce in if you compare it in comparison to one of these gigantic factory farms well and you know and I'm not I I don't know I'm not my number guy isn't going to have those numbers well no one is I mean this is the thing you know we can keep going deeper and deeper with this because people can say well hey you know it's sustainable in cenovia okay well is this sustainable in Wisconsin yes does it sustainable on the entire

56:07Eastern side of the country not really okay well it what about what if we can get the United States sustainable well we still got India well we're you know I mean you got a billion people living in a place a third the size of United States what what do you do then those numbers might be wrong the the big the big thing here is and the bigger conversation I think is is and and that's something that gosh people that care should really you know shove veganism and and you know meat eating aside and just let's say how do we how do we make this work you know and I think it's education I think people need to to understand that you you you can't just go around eating eating meat you know you know Charlie chicken fingers you can't be doing that you got to have a balanced diet and you you can't be eating pounds of meat a day you know that's what for health you know you

56:55you probably should overeat I think we all agreee ere anything but this is um this is a different subject I think we're talking about we're talking about sustainability and we're talking about feeding gigantic swaths of people yeah and that's what these factory farms have set up I mean through the method of uh collecting nitrogen from the oxygen I mean what what from the air that the hober method that they invented in like the early 1900s that's how they figured out how to extract nitrogen and because of that a gigantic population boom ensued that's that's the reason why there's so many people in the world today this is widely accredited with the hob method of collecting nitrogen because before that it was really difficult to fertilize soil once they figured out to how to extract nitrogen from the actual air itself things got a little easier to grow food and population boomed and

57:46that's part of what we're dealing with here what we're dealing with here is kind of um in you know well we talk about Wildlife we're talking about the 50,000 car accidents that are in Michigan every year alone because of the overabundance of deer this is sort of what we're talking about with human beings we have an overabundance of human beings now obviously I'm not suggesting we have massive Hunts on humans search in the herd in the herd but we would if we were some sort of an alien and we looked okay look at let's put it this way if chimpanzees were overrunning Chicago like somehow or another chimpanzees like figur fig out how to get Chicago uh they Swang from tree to tree and they moved in and started started setting up shop and overrunning to play aart where people were getting in car accidents with chimps and uh would we kill them that would be very tricky I don't think we

58:41would because chimps are way smarter than deer and we like smart so we wouldn't kill chimps the way we would kill deer so people obviously are smarter most people are smarter than chimp I know some people that probably aren't smarter than chimps but when it gets to intelligent animals that's when we get weird like nobody gives a if you kill a bug okay if mosquitoes contain zitka virus and malaria and all this different you can kill mosquitoes all goddamn day long and for whatever reason nobody gives a about mosquitoes cuz we've all agreed that mosquitoes are the enemy right mosquitoes contain malaria malaria has killed this is a number I know is real malaria has killed 50% of all the people that have died ever how about that wow say that again 50% of all the human beings that have died ever in the history two people have died from malaria how about them apples real because I've been

59:35fascinated with malaria for years i' I've read a lot of on malaria and I've had two friends that got malaria including Justin Ren our friend who was in here recently who fights this weekend on Bellator good luck to my friend Justin he's the best this guy is you want to talk about an amazing human being this guy uh he gave up like years of his life to go to the Congo and dig Wells for these people these pygmies in the Congo he's just the salt of the earth like the nicest guy ever but he got malaria he was doing that and almost died um so nobody gives a if you kill mosquitoes is my point you know you could SWAT flies vegans will SWAT a mosquito right you know you don't go please Namaste enjoy my blood it's the blood of a carrot eater no you you slap that down but there's there's a certain level like okay if a an ant is on your food a lot of times a vegan will kill that ant and

60:28what do you do with the body you throw it to the ground you'd ignore it cuz it's little but don't you don't you just kill an ant in my house and if you went like that and brushed it off I wouldn't say a word I'd be like Doug's doing some acceptable behavior he killed an ant that's on his pants and he dropped it on the ground but if a mouse ran across my kitchen you stomped it and then ignored it I'd be like hey what is this job guts and hair you've left right there's a weird hierarchy of living things and and the lion is clearly I mean one of the Lions is fellow mammals yes uh y um and you know I I don't even know what to say about about that but um but not rats rats right rats have the black plague and all kinds of nobody gives a if you kill a rat in your garage if you if you're so hardcore you're not into killing rats I got a great rat story I want to hear I want to

61:21hear a rat story I was living in the hills and uh I rented this house and and I had a real rat problem to the point where I'd hear them banging around in inside the rafters they're big man like the the hills around Los Angeles Los Angeles is a very strange place because you have this city and then you have just outside the city pretty abundant Wildlife including coyotes a lot of hawks and a lot of crazy but this uh place that I lived had a rat problem so I set out a rat trap and uh I killed this big ass rat like as big as my laptop it was huge man it was no SN trap big where you got to be real careful when you set it take a finger off yes definitely break one right um I set it out and I and I heard it in my kitchen a whack you know I'm like oh I got one and I went out there and I looked and it's this big like fat boy rat I was like oh Jesus look at the size of that thing so

62:19I said okay in the morning I'll get up and I'll kill I'll put that thing in the garbage and whatever and deal with it I went to sleep I got up in the morning uck ER was gone they ate him down to almost nothing all that was left is the tail so rats apparently don't even like rat tail but they had eaten most of his body the rats had cannibalized most of his body that's why we say rats yeah and if you see one rat you got a dozen oh at least yeah my my house was overrun with them it was really bad yeah it was real bad man it's like one of the first places I lived when I lived out here and I was like what the is going on cuz I I before that I lived in New York and in new relle and um my area although New York City has a huge rat problem New York City's rat problem is crazy I parked my car once this back in the days of phones uh uh payones I didn't have a cell phone I parked my car

63:11at this gas station I was getting some gas and I walked over to the pay phone and as I'm on the phone I saw three rats jump up in my wheel wells climb up over my tires three big fat rats like this place was overrun with rats they were looking to move or something they say if you see one rat I don't know I maybe check the numbers but if you see one I I don't know if it's a 100 or there's 100 or a thousand something like that if you see million if you see one there's 50 million around you know well SE Pizza rat have you seen this New York City Pizza rat no is a rat taking Pizza home for this yeah well this is this is cool but here's something that a lot of people don't know rats are Hunters um why don't you Jamie pull up rat kills pigeon because there not just one video of these there's many videos of rats in New York City attacking and killing pigeons iPhone videos it's is bizarre I

64:09had no idea I had no idea they were predators did you watch this look at this rat is jacking this pigeon and the pigeon gets away and like almost almost gets free what's going on here it's like their little laying prey so this rat has his pigeon by the neck this this is a different one than I saw the one I saw the pigeon gets away it's like near stairs and oh yeah here it is the pigeon tries to get away and the rat chases it down look at this cuz he's already winged him yeah but look at this the rat chases a living pigeon well look how the camera guy doesn't want to he's like not getting too close guy walking around with his iPhone I know what I'm going to do today but I would video that too you know oh why wouldn't you oh what else you going to do but I had no idea did you know that rats were predators no I you know uh opportunist maybe Predator it's chasing down an

65:02animal yeah no um always a problem with you know when you had grain around look look how strong he is he just jumped that curb with that thing in its mouth like it was nothing there was one point he stood up in his H legs with it in his mouth yeah monsters yeah we're so lucky they're little imagine if a rat was the size of a deer oh look there it goes again tries to get away and he's on it oh he's got its back that's good hooks in that good technique that's very good look at the the back leg see how he's controlling very good technique oh my God Jujitsu Jujitsu I I had to mention something like that cuz the only way my grandpa knows who I'm talking to is the fight guy that's how I explain to my grandpa your grandpa likes watching fight loves it loves UFC like I said he's the only guy in the nursing home that watched wow 90 93 going on 94 freaking out all the other people stop the fight

65:56yeah so it looks like that's it rats are creeps see now if you C caught that rat in a trap nobody would get mad at you but if you uh you shoot a bear they'll protest so I have a a different story for you uh uh had a house up in in dor County an old farmhouse and no one lived in it for a long time and we had rats in that house but the other thing that we had in that house were snakes and uh my uh sounds my da my daughter's mother uh didn't like snakes all she opened up the back door of the place one time and it was I don't know I guess it was a fox snake cuz it was a big ass snake and it's like like knocking on the door trying to get you there was a spot where they could get in when we started to remodel the place taking you know we put some uh beams up and we were taking some interior walls down snake skins oh Jes inside the wall I would she's just probably if she's listening to this

66:50she's hearing that for the first time I didn't tell her man she wasn't there wow Snak they're like 3T long you know where they moled or whatever the word is for Snake Farm D is oh man but those aren't Predators right I mean those aren't um predat on mice and they're probably in there for the rats it's probably good to have them you know yeah you know well that's the thing about like in my in my neighborhood I see Hawks all the time and they're the ones that keep the population of rodents down yeah you see them all the time man they're beautiful as do in our area it's a thing that I struggle with a little bit is uh k coyotes mhm um we do coy people do coyote hunting around me and uh we were talking about wolves before and uh I mean I'm not physically you know I'm not worried about coyotes like taking us down or anything like that and I have this fact talk to jannis P tell us about

67:42it and he his response to me talking about allowing K coyote hunting on our place was he goes oh man I just think they're trying to make a living too and you know they eat a lot of rodents they clean up a lot of uh the weak and the and the old of of deer and that sort of thing but um my buddy uh Greg who you may uh Greg keer who you may may big dude Steve talks about him all the time recently had a deer run into his yard by a pack of coyotes and he took it down and killed it in his yard whoow it was a a deer that had been wounded during the gun uh well we assumed the gun season it had a big scar in the back of its neck I suppose it could have been a you know an arrow that had cut it or something like that so weak or whatever and uh yeah in the middle of the night just went down in the middle of the night he went out there I couldn't believe it never seen

68:31anything like how many coyotes well based on he didn't see how many but it was you know they they work in groups of two or three or four or five um so they right right you know I have a chicken Co in my yard and uh I went out in the middle of the night to uh shut the CE cuz I let the chickens out and they wander around then I Clos the coupe and uh when I closed the coupe I was just outside enjoying the peace looking up at the stars and and I heard these deer running like running full clip and then something was chasing after them full clip but it was dark and my eyes hadn't adjusted so I was trying to figure out what the was happening but these deer were running and this something was chasing them and I saw I don't think so I'm pretty sure it was a coyote but it could have been out line but I saw uh I saw what looked like the silhouette of a kyote on the top of this hill and I was

69:21like this is so wild like there's a house here in this over here is watching The Bachelorette and like in inside you know this guy pulls into his driveway and his Mercedes he smoking his ecigarette and some tooth and Claw is going on right there right there these coyotes are chasing down these deer because there's uh there's a series of oak trees down the street from my house where these deer tend to bed I see them there all the time and there's like probably like five or six of them and but uh you know you'll see coyotes especially come when spring you know like when The Fawns are being born you see these hanging around just looking for an easy meal you know guys who raise uh cattle around me will talk about and I don't know Nathan if you know anything about this but I I to my knowledge I've never had a calf taken by a k by Coyotes or anything like

70:10that I have had a calf that was born and died you know was still born or something that wasn't there the next day so coyotes took it but the C abandoned it too the one thing you do not want to mess with is a 1450 lb Herford cow just had a calf yeah yeah would imagine she is not going to let you near that CF get kicked by a cow I've only had pigs and chickens taken and that's only when the dogs like we forget and leave the dogs in for the night a pig lit or an actual whole pig piglet Piglet a full- grown Pig would probably especially if there's more than one I'm sure they'd take care of themselves they're vicious I got bit by one of my pigs I mean if I were to fall down in my pig pen you'd be and if I couldn't get up I mean I'd there my wife would come home and there'd be nothing left to me pigs would have me done yeah that's real that's real no well that's the number one

71:00here's more statistics that's number guy number is 50% of people that have died it's another number one animal that kills people on farms really pigs yeah people fall like sometimes like an old farmer will have a heart attack and fall into the pig's tie and they just oh yeah gobble them up I I for the first time I actually saw one of my pigs eat a chicken gole that i w i i couldn't save the chicken in time and so I was like what am I going to do I don't want to save a half mangled chicken you know so I let him finish it but they they systematically cornered the thing and I'm running over try and then it was over it was too late I had a coyote take a chicken from my yarn or watch it hop the fence with it's in its mouth it was crazy and I was going to kill the but then uh I realized it was a female and then it had it had Cubs like a lot of the yying and hollering that you hear

71:47like like people think there's a lot of misconceptions about coyotes and one of them is that when you ever hear that that there's like some sort of a party a lot of it is mother communicating with her young and uh I was pretty sure that this was H what happened cuz my dog had let this female near um the chickens like the dog had like sort of like ateed and ab beded this coyote killing this um this chicken and then I realized like oh this is a female that has babies so that's where your soft spot was then yeah I'm a when you hear that sound though I mean when my wife first moved down to our farm I mean it sounds like there are a pack of children being murdered I mean it is just and in a still night like out where we are it's and it just resonates that's good we I have a I have a relatively new friend out in uh Washington who who's actually been emailing me and asking me for advice

72:41about um coyotes Trapping Coyotes you know anything about trapping coyot Rella he recommends subsonic 22s yeah one of wildist wildlife colist I know and Wisconsin uh when people would start to talk to them talk to them about you know I'm I'm trying to get rid of this animal or you know whatever Happ you make a wood chuck or something like that he would always recommend a small piece of lid at a very high velocity yeah well that's uh what a buddy of mine does he sets out cat food he puts cat food he these coyotes that were targeting his dogs so he would set out plates of cat food and sit on his balcony and just wait yeah and uh you call them in too yeah you can call them in with predator calls that you my calling some other too you know around these parts man we were we were talking about this yesterday that they um they just did this study of all these

73:33different mountain lions that they've killed here's some more numbers I think they killed like a hundred mountain lions in the San Francisco area in Northern California area and uh out of these Mountain lines that they killed most of them had cats and dogs in their bodies oh yeah finding out that this is what these things are eating only 5% of them had deer in their body well it's easy easier yeah but it's bizarre I mean they're they're they're targeting people's pets I mean that's that's their food is weird man in Madison Wisconsin where I live on the edges of the town uh that's and and we actually live near Two Parks we have coyotes and yeah there's a certain group of folks who are like well you know they're just out there trying to make a living too until you know one of them mittens and Fifi could eat and then we've got a then we've got a little situation we

74:22have to deal with yeah make up a story for the kids that it's a bizarre thing to see your cat in the jaws of a coyota as it's running away you know there's a uh the LA Museum of national history has this really cool exhibit on North American animals and their exhibit I pull I had a picture of it on my Instagram Jamie of the coyote their exhibit of the coyote in Los Angeles is a coyote with a cat in its mouth that's in the museum of natural history in Los Angeles the actual you know they have stuffed animals they have Buffalo they show Moose and they have these you know so you can get to see oh that's what that one of those looks like well they have these displays these stuffed animals so the coyote has a cat in its mouth and it's on someone's porch look at this that's that's in the National History that's the museum cat dead cat and my kids were like this yeah they're like um daddy

75:15well honey it's the only animal that's killing something in the entire Museum this is the animal that's killing there might for a minute there I thought that was the notes from the the with the uh Museum and then I realized it was it you had written that yeah really they're saying in the Natural History Museum no but look what these people were saying look at this guy my cat was just killed by one of these you know I'll shoot a coyote for no reason other than it's a coyote a coyote yeah and they're right man those are little little creepers little Creepers look at this uh what does it say swine likely kill fewer people than cattle do but there's no reliable data H 20 people a year killed by cattle it said whoa um find out how many people killed by pigs I couldn't find any but one story recently one guy in Oregon I would guess that that numers a little bit higher I mean personally I know

76:06uh two people have been killed by Bulls yeah well Bulls is it's you know especially solitary Bulls um you know the old expression is you with the bull you get the horn yeah I would imagine that happen I I was miling for a farmer one time and uh you know one of the things with with dairy farming and I grew up Dairy farming but uh if a cow has a stepped on te that's you know we usually say tit but you know we're on the I guess it doesn't matter now but they have a stepped on to clean it up uh or they get mastitis which is a sort of infection um it's it's very sore obviously um so you got to you got to you know strap up the milker and not put it on that one and I was in a hurry I was late for my other job so I'm I'm trying to hurry and I forgot about this one cow and this guy's cows didn't go in the right stall so my head wasn't where it needed to be anyway I put the I put

76:54the milker on the bad tit and she kicked me so hard she kicked me in the face and then I flew back into the metal post I mean I was out for good 20 minutes you know and you wake up in a days I mean so that's one example of how somebody could easily be killed by a c you know they're so big you know I mean all you have to do is fall and one Stomps you and that's it well again it goes back to the caving thing um our neighbor the guy who I used to uh well he still does some farming for uh for us to cuts and rigs Bales are ha uh was almost killed by a um uh a cow had just fresh and just had a calf and he went in there to deal with the calf and she got him into a corner and beat the snot out of him eventually he was able to crawl out and get under a gate and and this isn't normally a very nice animal you know um uh so it's funny to tell that story when I've been sending you all the about

77:51how nice my cows are and I can scratch your heads and stuff so well we were talking about that because I said that when we were around your cows they panicked and they ran off but you brought up an important point we were shooting squirrs pig they were shooting pigeons so what happened I didn't think we had shot anything yet was there a lot of you though too there was a lot of you guys there was a few there were four guys four guys okay Brian C might have been singing loud yeah he was singing already and you guys smell different I mean you know definit I would let strangers in with mine you know I wouldn't want that what happened that day is what a couple of different things that happened because you you you know factually you were correct what happened was is uh you went into their pasture well they weren't out in pasture we had them in a in a in a barnyard

78:34because we had been hunting and I didn't want him out on the pasture where the beer would be and that sort of thing um there is that video of that and you see as you guys are walking in uh and I never even thought about this then Joe was like I should probably go out there the cattle would be a little calmer if I'm with them but you know I was afraid that Brian was going to fall through the floor of the barn it's showing him here's where you can't you know good Lord and I wanted to throw rocks too but um as you're walking out there there's they they all turn and look at you as you're walking in because that's on that that outake and then by when you start shooting they're all down in the corner being very in a you know defensive position and and the analogy I I think I use to you is Imagine uh you're at home having dinner and four Dudes walk into your house with

79:22cameras and guns talking loud doing their whole thing and and then they start shooting well guessing that you're going to probably go to a corner of the house and get a defensive position no doubt once this shooting started happening um Jamie I just pulled this up there's more people were killed by pigs in 2014 than were killed by sharks sharks get a bad last year uh it says there were 12 fatal Pig attacks worldwide versus 10 shark fatalities so huh different stats I guess different websites up on farm specifically I some of them might have been different stuff could yeah I think they're talking about wild pigs actually which I didn't know wild pigs kill that many people they're creepers though have you ever been around wild pigs I actually have not man I was in tone ranch with Rella and we were walking down this road and we were pig hunting and we got close to these pigs

80:13and they didn't know we were there because it was really thick brush and grasses and we heard them fighting and they were less than 20 yards away and they're going to war and I'm like these are demons man they're demons they sound like Monsters they sound like something from The Lord of the rigns and they're attacking each other for whatever reason like right there I'm like God there's creepy things with their giant tusks and their black hair and they're just they look like demons yeah you know and they sound crazy you hear one you go oh okay you know that's how the uh the king in the Game of Thrones died remember you watch that show how dare you how dare you say no um he was killed by a boar wild boar spoil alert season one so not what I watch it out yeah well he doesn't matter I don't have to Doug yeah he he dies quick he dies early in the show but um but he was killed by a

81:04wild boar and that's that's not uncommon you know they're big animals man they get real big fair enough you know you're going out there you're that yeah well that's they're a very different animal I mean deer have killed people it has happen not just car accidents but they have gored people it has happened it is possible it's very rare obviously usually they just want to get the away from you y but uh you know they're wild they're animals they don't play by our rules and I think we have a real problem in this world with our idea of what an animal is you know we anthropomorphize these things we think of them the same way we think about our pets when you have a dog and you think of your dog the same way you think of a wild bear like boy they're playing on some completely different fields they have a completely different rule book yeah you know and we like to think

81:52that we're not animals and that kind of connects us and that that's where the disengagement and the disconnection with our our food supply comes from we're so you know we're above it you know that's our psyche you know well we're also we're just not used to being around them most people are not around wild animals ever ever the great majority of people that live in cities are virtually never around anything other than pigeons and squirrels they're just not around them so our ideas of wild animals are like these beautiful things that you rarely see why would you want to kill one yeah you know and the interesting point about squirrels Urban squirrels versus uh wood squirrels uh we shot a couple more episodes of meater that'll be coming out here in the next couple of weeks and uh we took Helen and and and Britney uh squirrel hunting and their experience mostly with squirrels was

82:44Urban and Helen had this wow they're way different than oh they squirrels they're like not coming down and of course Britney was talking about like rubbing acorns on her body and maybe come out and stuff like that but uh but completely different wild animal they're out there making a living they're out there surviving that that whole thing they aren't going to react the same way to to human beings walking into their Woods course well it's animals are pliable they're they're flexible just like people are and if you start feeding wild animals they kind of become domesticated there's a park right down here in North Hollywood you could sit down in the park and if you bring a bag of peanuts the squirrels will literally come and take them from your hands like a little baby and it's cool you know I mean those are different animals you know like like like the deer in my yard

83:30like uh my buddy came over uh one day and there was this deer standing there just standing and he was like dude I didn't think that was a real deer I thought you were with me cuz uh he came over my house we were going to work out and uh there's this deer standing there I look at that and he goes what the is that I go it's a deer he's like that's a real deer cuz he's a he's a buck and he just stand there looking at us and uh and he goes okay would you shoot that buck I go no that that's a that thing might as well be a pet like and if I was starving I'd shoot it but that thing is not worried about me at all it's it is never been attacked by a person it doesn't associate people with danger they're just standing there staring at me you can't host yeah you can't killed them that's up like that's you can if you have to survive but that's not a game animal and we have a a rule um I

84:19don't think that you were up by my cabin but um Brian was and my wife said you know can you not kill him right here by the cabin you have a rule we have a rule but you had a beaver that you guys killed right there right uh oh that Beaver that we ate M oh that was that was up on a creek not not far from there but um that's okay she allows the Beavers to die well yeah she allows the muskrats to die too burrow into the dam and you know cause all kinds of damage oh so you want them to die yeah you got get rid of them CU they're causing their you know the issues by way how good is that goddamn Beaver taste um absolutely Bar None best wild meat I've ever eaten really it's it's fantastic well the way ranella cooked it he brazed it and then slow cooked it like a stew and I'm telling you man it was like the best beef stew you've ever had in your life like rich

85:13and flavorful and again just like we're talking about with um organic beef versus regular you know cornfed this is a wild animal with a wild natural d diet and a real healthy big fat beaver yeah so so text your why I mean is I've ate raccoon is it like slow down raccoon's a whole another it is a whole ball game but raccoon well it's a wild game thing I mean bear I mean people seriously one of the worst oh hell yes what Wisconsin I'm taking the shirt off yeah I noticed there's not a beaver in the middle of beaver F there you go beaver when did you eat a raccoon man uh just at game feeds you know they do it they we have bear feeds like you know Packers Packers Bears weekend they'll have a bear feed at the Local Tavern and you know people bring in other stuff too wild game Snake hold the on first of all let me just explain to people that are only listening I

86:11asked I ask Nate I go when have you eaten a raccoon and Doug throws his hands up like I'm like when have you had french fries you at french fries like it's a raccoon man it's been a long time it's been a long time that's so what is you have a bear what well every once in a while when it's Packers Bears you know big rivalry you know they'll have a at a local Tavern they'll have Newman's Bar and Grill we'll plug those guys down in hillpoint you know they they've had be be feeds you know for the pack or Bears game you know there's a connection and they'll uh you know people bring other stuff you know there there's Wild game feeds I've had rattlesnake feed yeah a feed but you're calling it a feed you know like a steak feed or a you know it's just a you feed a bunch of people they sit down and get drunk how are they cooking how are they cooking the bear what are they doing

86:57probably roasting it you know I mean the big they just have a a gigantic bear barue not I mean it's parted up and you know that sort of thing it's good it's good well bear is real tricky right you got to make sure that you to the right temperature in as well it's everywhere is chosis it's a concern so yeah it's sort of a Wisconsin tradition I saw your eyes light up you you heard raccoon game Feed I mean there might be and it could be bear could be back in the day when there was more uh when uh the raccoon hides were and uh were more valuable and that's there's an EB and flow to that market of course well you got all these hides and what do you do with the carcasses right and Ian so a certain amount of them are are being eaten um what does it taste like it's pretty greasy yeah really greasy yeah is it a good grease is it good good for you it's it's one of those there's a

87:54little gaminess to it you know it's one of those things you got to get used to it you know and I don't eat enough bear meat to get used to it but I like bear no I've had bear I'm talking about raccoon oh raccoon raccoon oh I'm sorry I didn't think are you talking about bear or raccoon I oh I I way prefer Bear yeah raccoon is super gy yeah it's it's kind of nutty in a weird I didn't think that bear was greasy at all bear to me tasted like almost like a beef where did you uh Alberta yeah so what's that in Wisconsin and in the midwest where there's hunting going on they're doing a lot of baiting of them with you know like old donuts and stuff like that okay um and and I remember Steve talking about um I've never I've never bear hunted anywhere um how he doesn't like taking like is it spring Bears or because they're eating old I whatever the timing is of Sal whatever he loves

88:49the blueberry bears but not the their meat tastes like what they ate right yeah that's what we're talking about isn't that crazy though that you know rell's show have you ever seen that show where you show I haven't I haven't I don't watch much TV at all well he uh he shot a a bear in Alaska in the fall and it had been just feasting on blueberries and he was saying that this is the best meat bar nun in the world bar nun and he was saying that you open this bear up and you smell blueberries and it's like a sweet tasting meat and then you and and it just really I mean you eat a burger you don't think about it drink of soda you don't think about it but that is your cells you are literally supplying nutrients to your cells to your food and when you eat like um I used to work with this dude used to drink a lot of carrot juice and his hands turned orange like his

89:36skin started turning orange cuz he was eating like three or four glasses of carrot juice a day how orange are we talking orange is like weird like spray tan like Jersey Cheetos orange or no like an orange like a carrot you know not he made a jerk off motion I don't know why you jerk off I that was either I saw jerking off with Cheetos that's a joke you know that okay it is but I what I'm saying Cheetos and jerking off like what do you mean w it's it's kind of one of those things you know it's like a bear feed like you got to be in Wisconsin to understand it you know Cheetos I give you a Cheetos in the bathroom he grunting I don't know man there's some stuff about this guy I didn't know before I got him so yeah um Cheetos oh forget Cheetos kind if you're eating Cheetos all day or potato chips or whatever the it is that is literally supplying your cells

90:30and we don't think about it that way we just think about this tastes good I am me I am Doug Doug eats cheeseburger cuz cheeseburger tastes good but a cheeseburger literally is supplying your body you know I I started this diet recently this is called a primal blueprint diet this guy on the podcast named Mark sisen and he is an advocate of no grains no bread no pasta no rice no nothing mostly fats you get your fat from avocados from healthy fats from beef and and chicken or whatever the you eat and and coconut oil things along those lines MCT oil and uh I've been on it now for two weeks and it's pretty fascinating pretty fascinating first of all it took me a while to like adjust from going on a carbohydrate based uh energy to a fat-based energy getting my my energy from fats my body fats decreased pretty significantly I lost it at least six PBS now of and I'm

91:26eating like normal amounts but I'm just eating fat and and proteins and a lot of vegetables and no sugars at all none zero I'm not I'm not eating any processed sugar I eat occasional piece of fruit um blueberries and things along those lines but mostly vegetables and meat that I'm eating and and and a lot of avocados wow but my cells obviously are getting nutrients off of this off of healthy fats and what he found is he had arthritis he also had irritable bowel syndrome those things went away when he when he cut grains out of his diet and we stopped eating processed sugar so like inflam inflammation type thing inflammation yeah and that these healthy fats like healthy fats for your body like coconut oil things along those lines is is really the best fuel for your body and your body gets into a state of ketosis which takes about two weeks when I just started getting into I

92:18just started getting into the state of ketosis and your body once it reaches this state of ketosis gets it energy primarily from fat and it's a more normal natural way for your body to respond and your body can shift like you know your body's very flexible it can shift from a glucose-based carbohydrate based fuel system to a fat-based fuel system so this is when my body is just started to do and I committed to this I was going to do a month but I just decided to make it two months so I'm committing to this for two months and I'm going to talk about it and see what it's like but I'm sold two weeks in I don't like it in the fact that if I go to a a restaurant and someone's got a spaghetti and meatballs next to me I'm like I can't eat the meatballs I can't eat the spaghetti like I have I can't eat any sugar no desserts does that seem different to you uh and what I

93:05mean is when you smell like a a carbohydrate like that uh like a c go all of a sudden whoa whereas maybe not so much before no it's the opposite this is what's really strange about it I what they've said what people have hypothesized and the theories are that your gut bacteria controls a lot of your appetite and this is one of the reasons why I used to be stuffed like stuffed at the end of a meal and I would still want sugar I'd still want some candy or still yeah right it's awful right you still want some pie oh bring that pie over here you know well now I don't it's weird because of this my body taking plenty of probiotics drinking a lot of Kombucha things along those lines um taking some probiotic supplements you you you introduce healthy bacteria your stomach and your your gut and because of that your shift it shifts like what you're hungry for it's very strange like

94:01bread to me looks like uh like why don't you eat stuffing out of a mattress like it looks like nonsense to me it's very strange cuz I used to see like bread someone bring out like a restaurant nice loaf of bread and butter I'm like oh give me that son be all excited slap some butter on that and eat it up now I look at I'm like that's not even food like it said it doesn't register to me as in a two we period of time you had weeks two weeks and you were such an unhealthy son of a before that I'm say I mean I think part of it must be psychological that I've decided that this isn't food that I've made a shift in my mind because I'm not eating it I haven't eaten it in two weeks but I think is's a real good argument that it's gut bacteria that's a big part of it because the sugar like they had like a dessert tray thing and they brought it out at a restaurant I was at the other

94:47day you you know like they a fancy place they bring you like would you like this is this one here and this one here the app and none of it looked good it all looked like nonsense to me whereas before I'd be like what am I going to my body up with I got to figure this out I got to take this home with me very interesting stuff and uh I'm I wanted to experiment with it because the guy was fascinating he's very intelligent and I said well how what does it hurt for me to try this out thought it'd be an interesting topic of discussion to do it for you know 60 days or so and then maybe even have him back on or have someone else on that Advocates it and and I've read people that Advocate a carbohydrate Rich diet and it seems to me that your body is pretty flexible and your body can exist on a bunch of different types of fuel and people get really dogmatic about it you know like

95:32you have to do it this way you have to do it that way and uh I don't think I think it's Al there's also biodiversity right there's different people come from different climates they come from different parts of the world originally their ancestors did and I think their bodies have become more acclimated to those types of foods and that was like the big issue with Native Americans when the Europeans showed up with alcohol they literally didn't have the genes to process this stuff whereas Irish people process that like that you know it was interesting that you said that about probiotic because I've been taking a probiotic for about 18 months now uh all the places where I got this advice was from my accountant and W yeah how weird he's a buddy uh or he's like uh I went over your taxes and what she need no it's one of her clients but um I had been sick and she said something

96:24about probiotics and and and honest to God 18 months I've been taking a probiotic every morning and I'm not been and I haven't done anything else different but I've been uh not necessarily healthier but less ill not ill at all really there's uh an article I read once about skin um flora and uh it was in regards to grappling cuz uh with jiu-jitsu and with wrestling a big issue is ringworm and even staff infection I've gotten both really yeah man it sucks the the the staff was real scary because um my friend Tate Fletcher spotted it we were at an airport we were hanging out getting ready to go on our plane and I just had my foot sitting up on my knee and he was looking at the bottom of my calf he goes hey man what's going on with your leg I go what he's like what's going you he's like what's all this I go what is it he's like there little pimples on my leg I don't know he

97:15goes dude that looks like staff I go are you serious and he goes yeah I don't like that man go get that checked out cuz he you know he fought has been grappling his whole life and he had he had caught it before I had never caught I caught ringworm before and I knew what that looked like and so I was like this is pimples like what is it he's like I'm telling you I think that's staff so I go immediately to a dermatologist take his advice and the guy goes yep get on some antibiotics he gives me these horse pills of death this stuff's awful these first of all antibiotics when you have staff wrecks your entire system cuz it doesn't just kill the staff it kills all the healthy Flora too yeah so got to start over what they say to counter that um is to take probiotics once you're done with your whole cycle but also to prevent it in the future you take healthy bacteria like a lot of

98:06acidophilus different forms of probiotics and you are essentially giving your body soldiers to fight off infection and the skin Flora changes when you take like high doses of healthy acidophilus and things along those lines your skin it's also like for people that are vegan there uh some different probiotics like raw uh uh sauerkraut like raw sauerkraut is really good kimchi is another one that's really good fantastic probiotic you're essentially taking in live organisms that become a part of your body they're soldiers and these live organisms fight off against shitty bacteria it's amazing stuff well part of the reason I was convinced other than I get my medical advice on the cheap is uh in the the other work that I do I build and manage athletic fields um and there's a huge movement to go towards organic uh uh fertilization or uh cultural practices in uh on athletic

99:07fields you know this one facility that I manage um before every tournament we'll get emails and calls from parents who bring in their eight-year-old and say well we're coming in from wherever and we want would like to know what's been applied to your Fields my son or daughter has a issue with herbicide intolerance or whatever and I'm real I take that really seriously yeah um we started using uh compost from uh both a facility uh nearby from the county but also from a A supplier and applying that as a part of our um our regime cut we're able to cut back on fertilizer and the other thing that was really interesting is that um a lot of the pathogens that we have issued with on and you see them on Golf Course ver they get uh different kinds of fungus that affect the grass because you're you know it's you're putting water on it and you're feeding the out of it and and by putting

100:02that uh compost on there um and providing you know essentially the the organisms that are good for the soil we feeding the soil not the plant which nitrogen that they you know synthetic nitrogen or uh does and so what ends up happening is we're we're feeding that soil and so now we've got a whole environment there that that uh turf grass has got an opportunity to utilize everything that's in that soil and it's healthier um and you know we're kind of going the other we're going the other direction in in everything from farming to growing grass for kids to play soccer on well I know a guy who lived near a golf course growing up and the pesticides that they use on the golf course infected the water supply and he got bone cancer and cancer throughout his neighborhood everyone in his neighborhood was affected someone they knew got cancer it was rampant and it

100:52was just people were drinking the water that came from this area where they had been contaminated because of a golf course yeah leing in and and uh the one company that I work with uh has built uh been part of a construction of golf course that from day one was and that's actually certified organic um but it was been a part of their process all the way along and they control you know the amount of traffic on it and all those sort of things too but it's a beautiful golf course and they haven't used any uh pesticides um or synthetic fertilizers on it one of the things that they had brought up in that same article about um organic meat being healthier was the incorporation of clover in with grass and that somehow or another Clover helps uh it helps sustain like a nitrogen balance with the grasses like it's a Nitro a clover is a nitrogen fixing plant so if you you know in a

101:48pasture we we introduce Clover into our pastures um and so it fixes nitrogen into the soil that's then available for the grasses and uh White clovers and a lot of the things that I actually plant in some of the food plot stuff that we do for wild yeah for deer um it's sweet it tastes good and it's also providing nitrogen to the plants that need it um that and that's a big problem with things like gigantic fields of only grain of only corn or of only wheat that this it's not natural for one plant species to be monoculture yeah that's not normal right that's not natural and it's kind of like what you were talking about when you're talking about these really interesting diverse ecosystems that are created by these Organic Farms like this one that you were you were highlighting earlier yeah yeah and and and so it is it's a it's a a complete ecosystem it's a closed

102:44Circle that's how it's supposed to be well the thing that gets me is that you know this Mark Shepard I mean and I've just paged through it you know Doug's read more of it than I have but I you look at this and you read it and it makes sense and you're like wow this guy's a genius but then you think about like ancient civilizations we're doing things along these lines where did we lose that you know where did that go away well seems like we lost it with this factory farming and we also lost it when we started putting people in cities I think cities are a real big part of our disconnect and also awesome I love cities I love to be able to go to the mov yeah I like getting on the highway like the guy you mentioned the guy you Joel that girls this Med yeah I mean that's oh no that was no that was that was um Ron Finley you know you've heard of Joel Sal he's been on the podcast oh really yeah

103:32I was going to reference him he's oh yeah he's amazing he's got some amazing books you know he's got a lot book really interesting strategy for like uh letting pigs and all these different animals graze is what he does is he sets up this perimeter fence this large like mildly charg fence so if they go to it it irritates them and they so they don't run over the fence and then he moves it he moves the fence and they graze in a new area so they don't just destroy yeah they don't D and they're living as if they were wild they're essentially grazing off acorns things along those lines and just giant areas where they Roam and forage and they eat just like a wild pig and because of that their flesh is very different that's what you got in your freezer now dude well this is this is Elk but I have a wild pig in my freezer at home from that we brought you absolutely that's how we yeah we pasture

104:20them y oh okay well that's the way to do it I mean it's a different kind of meat it looks different you know I mean it has a a deeper darker richer color and that's one of the things that I noticed when we shot when ryell and I shot a pig at the toone ranch it was thick with fat from acorns and its texture the the meat was like a dark red and it was delicious it's a different animal isn't it interesting like with beef um I still eat the occasional uh beef that uh that I might not know where it came from right not very often but there's one uh one place One restaurant that uh nearby our place that I go to and they he finishes his beef with uh with corn uh but it's mostly you know grass-fed and but he's still sort of old school with he does that to Marble it to yeah yeah I taste the difference between of course you taste the difference between venison because really again I don't have this

105:15wide experience of hunting in in in different areas and having meat from different areas so I am excited about your elk but so the venison to grass fed beef to cornfed beef um and it's been a long time since I've had something that I like I said where I didn't know where it came from but I can tell you when it was when it was uh fat cattle they call them um I feel like after I get done eating a piece of meat like that like have a little prime rib or something when I go out on a Saturday night I feel like I should take a knife and like scrape that fat off my tongue it just has a completely different taste and I just I'm not interested in it anymore just and so my you know taste has changed that way um so it's very tender you know but it's also because that animal's dying I mean that that animal you're eating a sumo wrestler you're eating you're eating a slob what are that

106:06what's that uh where they massage them yeah Kobe be yeah or Wu it's the more common is that how you say just big Wu I don't like that stuff man I've had it before it's okay but it's just it's so soft and weird it's like why how the is this muscle carrying this animal around it's gelatinous you know it's weird I'll take it to even more of an extreme and and uh and that is uh ve there was a down the road from our old friend who had the issue with us when we were hunting and would calling and leaving me those crazy messages uh before uh before he owned that place it was owned by another guy who raised ve and I and when I was younger I helped out up there once in a while and how you helped out was to help him load the vehicle those animals are in a cage where they essentially can't or a box that where they can barely turn around and they're being fed you know a milk

107:04replacer powdery that you mix with water and it's kind of a liquid and that's all they're getting and the best looking ve C Cals were the last animal I ever wanted to eat I mean and and it smelled bad it there was nothing good about it their muscles aren't developed they're not they don't want them to develop you know crazy thing I don't I don't understand it I don't understand how it got started and I don't understand why people keep eating it well people eat ludifisk I mean that's weird ludifisk what is that it's like well it's saying ludicrous I was like what did he do wrong fish in in what is it lie yeah what I mean yeah they it's a Norwegian thing it's a survival thing the Vikings did it on ships and stuff but people still it's more it's a tradition thing but oh literally soaked in lie it's lie yes I mean it but isn't lie poisonous it's this is real um look what in the is

107:58this and it's weird I mean you want to talk gelatinous my friend Lauren Hansen is standing up with his hands in the air right now HEI Norwegians are awesome I just got to say that oh my God what is weing wines with ludifisk oh God it's looks like jizz look at it it's like it's like slime yeah like like snail slime and I I've never had V but I've had this and I you know it's got to be what is this like but yeah but this is just uh well it was it was something they did to survive yeah and it's just Tradition now but people what does it taste like I can't even describe I don't I I think I blocked it out my mind you know that bad well see what they these these nor in Norwegian areas of of Wisconsin they have these dinners you know ludus dinners for fundraisers and such but they also have they have other things so you try you know my my a lot of money was was out of respect I take a

108:56bite of ludus and then and then I wash that down with some like you know Swedish meatballs and and you know right Lea you know just soak and just get it out of your mouth it's one of those things like what's the other thing you watch down with Swedish meatballs and what Lea it's like a little isn't it a potato bread type almost like a tortilla it's like a Norwegian tortilla food show here you guys are eating raccoons and ludic ludicrous smelt feeds yes a smelt feed they like little tiny fish you scoop them up in giant neets deep FR yeah eat the whole thing right guts and all pretty much what is that like that's it's it's really good I mean we our wrestling club oh not so good says Doug I like it I like it's not it's not the favorite thing but I mean you you fry anything and it's pretty good you know I mean oh deep fry like bread and all that ja I guess they do tarter sauce you put

109:50a dozen of them on a bun and you know M Chow Down make some money for the wrestling club well you got to do what you got to do if you're beavers there's a TV show uh I think how you get some money from the wrestling club from this is how do you make this connection oh it's a fundraiser you know that's what we do that's how we make money with we have feeds ludus feeds steak feeds bear feed you know it's it's not real creative when it comes to uh uh raising money I guess although we have the the covia this is one plug I do want to put the cenovia turkey Busters fishery coming up this week turkey Busters Fisher what is a turkey Buster well first well it's a Sportsman's Club I don't think I don't think we have a website or anything so I wouldn't look it up but uh uh so it's a Sportsman's Club and and in cenovia which is you know 250 people it's sort of the Lions

110:41Club the Knights of Columbus the every you know the rotary it's everybody put together and and it's just this group of dudes who are really into turkey hunting okay and they call the turkey Busters turkey Busters yeah and uh why do we have a fishery well have this little uh Lake Lee Lake there in cenovia and one of the things that we do is with the money that we raise is uh stock it with Walley and other um game fish and uh uh so one of the things that we do is have this fishery which is on the ice so it's essentially an i ice fishing um tournament would be the wrong word um although there are es for like the biggest bluegill and the biggest bass and and that kind of thing um but mostly it's a thing where people come to and you have Raffles and um it's the social event of the season in cenovia really oh yeah oh yeah Jesus just FYI Doug they are online but

111:43all they have is all they have all they have is the phone number and and contact this is at COV Memorial Park contact Chuck Keller put number online no whatever you do we've already said too much if they have a website they're getting dickpics right now s to them as you speak but um yeah so those are different ways that and you know and some of the stuff that we've also done is um uh donated bought and donated like ho archery bows or uh Matthews bows to uh uh the to the the school's uh physical education program oh that's cool yeah yeah that's awesome that they still do that that's very cool yeah so this is a little organization of of a bunch of guys who get together once or it depends on the time of the year once or twice a month and well there's certainly a benefit to having a small community like that where everybody really does care about the welfare of

112:37the community and cares about all these different things like wrestling team needing money for uniforms and things along those lines we lose a lot of that when you have big cities there's there's so much to gain in a big city but there's so much to lose too and like we were talking earlier about the diffusion of responsibility that you have when there's 20 million people you see somebody with their car broken down the side of the road I don't even think about stopping yeah I'm like I hope this is AAA you know pass by but if you're on some country road and you see someone broken down you think one of two things I hope this guy's not a serial killer and I should probably try to help him yeah exactly those are the two things you think and the other thing out in our our territory when you're driving our in our area when you're driving around is you wave to everybody yeah you know so you're

113:20driving it might not be putting your hand up like or anything but you at least you're driveing you go like this yeah well that's nice you know and that that is definitely missing on the highway cuz otherwise you'd be yeah you still get the one finger sign out on the highway around here if you were waving everybody to pass you your break you know yeah it's uh Weir yeah yeah well it's all weird isn't it it is weird people are weird but cities are especially weird because I don't think this is a normal thing I don't well we've only had them for the last last couple hundred years in this sort of magnitude that we have now like with New York and la and things along those lines just to have so many people jammed into an area like this and as we started this conversation have a complete disconnect as to where your food comes from and that the food is coming from life whether it's plant life

114:12or whether it's animal life your food comes from life life eats life and that is reality Jack London is that about that yeah and it's uh what the Sea Wolf we were just talking about this yeah what did he say um well it's a this character it's this old pirate in this book called The Sea Seawolf I knew he was going to get a pirate are you a fan of pirates yeah yeah know who isn't man Pirates are awesome but uh I mean you know maybe not the the new age ones the Somali or whatever yeah they're a little different they're you know those are not without my sympathy as well yeah no everybody's got an agenda and everybody's got a reason to fight you know uh well they have a very we'll get into that uh this specific pirate his whole you know he's a loner and his whole thing in the conversation throughout the book is he talks about it as a yeast you know life eat eats life and his whole contention

115:02is what the matters life eats life I mean you could make an argument like you're going to be dead you're going to be dead you're going to be dead who gives a who gives a what happens you know I mean people that's not a very nice way to look at things you know but it is it's I mean it's a fact you know it is a fact but also this moment right now is enjoyable oh absolutely you no no I'm not well I have a problem with that sort of absolute sort of you know worrying about the end Abol how about the moment is enjoyable nothing else at all camaraderie and friendship and a good meal with friends is one of the best things you can have in life adventures and things you you enjoy activities that you like to participate in those are very enjoyable and I think that's what life is about life is about these friendships and these enjoyable moments that we have with each other so there absolute ideas

115:50that people have about what is the point man yeah it's all going to end man well okay you could look at it that way I like what's the point in playing the game the game's going to be over one day do you not enjoy the game enjoy the game man these are some of those kids we saw sitting on the steps today you know you know just sitting there oh and in Hollywood they're poisoned these poor they're poisoned by the break dust that's flowing through the air everywhere that shit's terrible for you definitely different smells out here man break dust is terrible it's one of the one things that people don't talk about about living in urban environments that you don't you go to your car you know that if you have a wheel and you see that stuff on the outside of your wheel you're breathing that yeah you're breathing that everywhere especially if you live in New York or if

116:32you live in LA and there's constant traffic going by you every time they hit the brakes a little bit of dust gets up in the air and that stuff you're dealing with millions and millions of cars this stuff permeates the environment it's terrible for you people's people's Vol the voluntary Coast Guard of Somalia that's what the Pirates call themselves The reason why they started doing pirating in Somalia is because they were fishermen they were fishermen and these from Europe and Russia were dumping toxic waste off their Shores nuclear waste toxic chemical waste and it was killing all the fish so what they started doing was kidnapping the the people that were in the boats that were doing The Dumping so these fishermen who were starving to death because they all of a sudden their their Waters were polluted they started going after these guys and kidnapping them then they realized hey

117:18we get way more money from kidnapping people than we do from fishing became Pirates and so they also started taking this stuff called cat and this is a it's it's a narcotic it's a a stimulant that they uh they take it's like a plant that they chew and it gives them like like it's like a meth type plant I don't know the exact uh P pull that up I think it's k h a t but it's a stimulant that they chew all the time it's one of the reasons why the people are so there it is cat to be banned in the UK you see like this guy's eating chewing on these uh these leaves and it produces P pull up a website or a web description instead of an image and'll find out what is the actual um go of all instead of images look at that guy's CH that he's got a like a big league Che in there um yeah this is uh oh I seen in that movie Captain Phillips yeah so this this stuff is it's a it's a

118:14drug and these people take it it's an alkaloid yeah here it is cathinone or it's an amphetamine amphetamine like stimulant which is said to cause excitement loss of appetite and Euphoria and so these guys take this they get jacked on this cat khh a t and um they would go out and kidnap people well that's the thing too you know I mean my initial reaction when I said except Somali pirates I mean that's how we tell history is from you know Captain Phillips side you know and that's like the Howard Zin thing Howard Zin tells it from the other side you know so let me retract that I like Somali play a little bit too you know everybody's got a you know they've got a reason to fight they got for the longest time they were incredibly peaceful people Somalians were very peaceful they you know they weren't out there robbing and trying to Jack people they were fishermen and when the

119:06Europeans started dumping that stuff off their Shores they had to take a new approach they had to adjust adapt improvise overcome yeah it's just but again where's that coming from coming from you know large scale human beings living in these giant civilizations creating waste they don't know what to do with so some dick hole decides to dump it off the coast of Africa because they don't have any say in the matter you know they didn't want to dump it in the the London Bay backyard yeah so they decided to we do that here too London Bay I make they they loosen standards so that companies can put more in you know well that's a big deal with New York City as well the the Hudson River deserted Wasteland it was at one point time they're dredging it up now and starting to uh to clean it and and trying to uh really impose very strict regulations on the amount of waste that gets in it but

119:57and these large animal facilities same thing yeah where do we put this stuff and you see these trucks going up and these big tank trucks full of and they have to haul it really far because they don't have enough they're renting land all over so they're hauling it that was a big issue in our area is is the weight on the roads oh yeah and so then you know and the farmers you know they didn't want to be taxed or anything so they I believe there's a compromise where there wasn't a road tax but they made him have another axle so it spread the weight out and wasn't you know tearing the hell out of the roads oh so the actual physical weight on the road is that why they go giant T they have to weigh I always wondered why they weigh them well out in our neck of the woods again um a lot of the roads were just gravel roads and then over time they did this thing called tarant chip so a

120:40gravel road is not built you know it doesn't have any particular engineer well suppose it has some engineering standards but not flat as possible yeah um and there aren't any engineering standards but gravel roads are a to to keep up so they started to U tar and Chip them so it's you know kind what do that mean poor man's black top so you put uh or asphalt so you put this tar down and then go over the top of it and I could have PE gravel typ with PE gravel stuff and it all binds together and then over time people keep driving on and over time it actually seals it up and you're just driving over it with cars and pickup trucks it's okay but now here comes you know big tanker truck or a big tanker uh with you know behind a monster tractor and you know it's breaking down the sides of the roads and it ends up being an issue for us and as Nate said they're having to haul this

121:26stuff further and further because you can only put so much on so much ground and the that they are putting out there is um you know it's it's liquid manure that's going into these tanks um or into these holding fac manure liquid manure oh it's nuts it's I just found a new way to torture terrorists and there's a there's a double standard with it um this so you got this massive amount of liquid manure you know they're going to store it they're not going to compost it or anything like that so like right now we've got a nice snow Pack 12 in they're sprad it on top of the snow so and and and just to illustrate the double standard I got family that is in the septic business you know so if they go out if they spread this on a certain slope sh the human from like holding tanks or pumping out they spread it on the snow well see here's the thing though it it they spread it on

122:17the snow and if they do it over if they do it over uh he said that because Jamie just p up Liquid manure spreaders and tools for the people that are listening see how they've added added axles you know that's a new thing they used to have one axle spr it was just too much on the road but so a septic dude he goes out there to get rid of this human and if he does it on a certain grade he'll get a giant fine from the DNR but a farmer goes out and does it and it's like you know so human a farmer can dump human no no no a farmer can go dump cow and the thing is you know in the end I mean is is you know but it's not though right right because cow is just they're eating grass so like manure is not those facilities they're not they're all kinds of different proteins so and you know obviously this when the snow melts you know that that a lot of that is going into the the stream so

123:06like we're Doug and I you know we really value our you know we keep it we compost it we turn it into something with value these that's that's a waste it's going into the water and polluting and it's a waste of money you know you see the uh Drone footage they did of this pig farm this guy I've seen some I don't know particular some you would probably agree with and I agree with and those those people in the uh cowspiracy documentary certain agree with is that there's something evil about these AG gag laws oh yeah crazy where you're not supposed to film atrocities that are being committed in these factory farms well this guy got a drone and he flew it over this pig farm and they have a goddamn Lake of pig piss it is gigantic and it's they have these things where the pigs live these cages and then here here's a guy um he's going to do it right here he's uh for people that want

124:01it spy drone exposes Smithfield Foods put say say that up put that up smithfields Foods factory farms so spy drones exposed Smithfield food factory farms the Lagoon is a good word because it sounds dirty the lake of pig piss and what yeah it's it's like a red color it's disgusting and look at these I mean imagine how many animals are in one of those sheds and they don't see sunlight you know it's it's it's not it's not it's not human it's not Humane it's not ethical it's not right but to bring it all home all right look at this the the Lagoon theor does it just sit there do they ever do anything with it or does it just sit there and bubble bubble bubble what' you say jam they spray it around to the house and try to find a picture oh and the person and they talk to the neighbor they spray it in the air oh my God gets it gets in the air and goes into people's houses and think some of

125:00the neighbors are saying it gets on like gets in their house and they can't even breathe and they need to live the area here's there's a there's a Fear Factor thing can we hear this guy hear this guy former Pig Factory R let me hear this guy I don't know sounds not up come on D web something wrong there's no sound but you can just see the way it's moving within the facility there too fix it oh there's an issue with the computer um strange yeah man it's it's dark it's evil and it's when all of a sudden these things don't get treated like a life they get treated like a commodity and I think I guess there's levels right to people that are vegans they would say well any animal that you would be willing to raise and then ship off and sell like why are you any better than this guy who's got these things stuffed into this thing I mean yeah your animals are living a normal life but then

125:50eventually you're going to kill them anyway you know whereas you know what I'm saying yeah I you know that and I I have a a friend who's a vegan and uh in fact one of my heer Cavs is named after her um and she's honored by that actually because she knows that that one's never going to be um or probably won't be but probably is a good word probably won't be butcher but um unless she gets a prolapse cervix or something like that but um so if your pussy's broken you're done cows cows yeah you got to be specific there Joel yeah so to say that there's not a difference is well there's definitely just not paying attention but no I mean if that's what the argument is then you're not paying attention and we can't have a conversation about it I just think they think that the ultimate goal at the end is definitely death or the ultimate result for these animal goal is life

126:44yeah well I mean these same people don't want you to be shooting wild animals either you know yeah well even wolves which is hilarious well I the W one is hilarious cuz there's so much ignorance involved in people's idea of what a wolf is and why there's so many folk tales and stories that involve bad wolves killing people there was two I just read this two um wolves I believe it was Idaho we can we can check in if we want to but two wolves killed 176 sheep or something like that in one night oh yeah for fun well that's the thing that wolves do it's and then they're having a real big problem with this in Yellowstone and in a lot of places that have elk is that they don't kill like a cat will kill a wolf or a cat will kill an elk rather and he will eat that elk for a long period of time he'll bury it he'll try to and he'll eat it and a wolf kills it eats a little bit and then

127:32kills another one and then kills another one and kills another one and they do whatever the they want yeah and one of these guys that I know at hoit was telling me uh about this this wolf that had killed this uh cow and the way it did it was it attacked the C cow elk attacked it tore its guts apart and then this thing and then backed off and just watched and sat and didn't e and watch this thing struggle and try to walk away and tried to walk into this River try to get away and then it would go after it again and tear it apart a little bit more and then back off again they do it for fun and it's what they're designed for they're killing machines and they enjoy it and it's they're beautiful and I'm not saying they're evil we should kill them all and eradicate them from the face of of the world but there's something strange about that kind of animal they're not it's not necessar

128:22they're not environmentalists they're not conservationists they're wolves and and wolves are dangerous they're they're they're they have an essential place in a very diverse ecosystem but the top of the food chain is human beings period And when human beings decide you know what there's too many of these goddamn wolves that are killing a 100 plus sheep in a night or my friend um Mike hawd who lives uh up in um in BC his neighbor their cow got taken out a cow got taken out by wolves and you're in in BC where he lives there's no tag limit for wolves you can shoot as many as you want you can shoot wolves it could be your hobby you what do you do I go bowling I shoot wolves like they they're trying to take out as many wolves as they can and when we were talking about coyotes before and personally I don't you know I've shot a few coyotes in my day how dare you and

129:16uh yeah uh but it's not something I go out and go out and and pursue uh you know necessarily it's more opportunistic or whatever he's with Road Runner and you got to take him out yeah and Anvil AC me D just like and and it's you know it's sort of like the deer thing when I was listening to various arguments about uh deer well one of the reasons we have so many deer in Wisconsin and other agricultural areas is because of Agriculture and they are highly adaptive yes that's a really big point because they're not even essentially wild they're really kind of like a farm animal in a lot of ways and it was one of the the things that Steve brought up on the show that we talked about you know I don't know if it ever made the air did did that make the air where he was talking about how these animals are essentially in a lot of ways they're like a livestock almost well non

130:04fenced in oh yeah you know you saw the trail camera pictures that I sent you of different deer that I had you know different U you know bucks on thing well you're not going to see that out in of course Idaho or Utah or whatever or maybe you do but I but no I mean and well they're very different than like the mule deer that we were talking about before the show start that Rella killed uh that was on a show recently which is enormous beautiful Majestic public land mu deer that he killed mu deer they' found will travel 150 miles um during a season they they really migrate in incredible again probably for a lot of the same reasons because they have to for food and and and for whatever whereas an older a deer gets in our area at least my experience has been so the older a deer gets in our area the less it moves M so if you have a a buck that you're you know you're managing four

130:56bigger bucks and you start seeing one that maybe has a distinctive antler or something so you can tell it from other ones um you'll begin to realize you know that great big one that I shot I saw that deer for two years he lived in about a 40 acre area wow that's crazy you're just waiting for him to slip up and he did there's a lot of these hunting shows where they name the deers yeah you know they'll they'll call this one uh yeah you know old forky and you know whatever they'll have names for these animals and they'll Target them we're looking for Lucky we're trying to get lucky you know they'll have these shows and like this is so bizarre because it's in a lot of ways you're like kind of farming because they have these gigantic pastures that they call food plots so they what they'll do is they'll they'll plow the land and they'll grow a lot of clover a lot of different different typ

131:45Al falfa different things that they know deers will eat deers no deers and so then then they set up a tree stand and uh whack them out yeah and um I do it too I mean part of what I do in my Land Management Service for people is to is to help their property become more Wildlife friendly and one of the things that I try to push to people is that when we're doing things like Timber stand Improvement or invasive species management or providing uh Wildlife food plots we're planting Wildlife food plots just not deer food plots and a lot of those guys you know what I really want is deer right what's good need it all yeah and what's good for deer is generally good for a whole host of wildlife so it's a little bit different but yeah no I know what you mean I tend to name him afterwards like that big one that that big one that I killed uh you know we called him the standard um and

132:37because it's the standard by which all after this will be judged you know right and uh but yeah I mean that part of the relationship is is uh complicated complicated man it is complicated but like all things in evolving life they become complicated there's it's not it's not simple yeah can I talk about mediator a little bit yeah please um so we did we shot starting this Thursday there'll be uh there'll be three episodes in a row that were shot on the farm the first one's actually Steve taken apart a couple of the deer that that he finally shot a couple of deer on on our place and technically he'll say something else but during our hunt he killed two deer but he took him apart so it's a really informative um episode about the different kinds of cuts how well one how to just do it and then the different kind of cuts and the methods for doing this stuff just really um I I just

133:31watched it and I just just really impressed by it he's amazing he really is he's so he's so goddamn important because in my my mind on television he is the most prominent intellectual voice for Wild game management Wild game conservation and for hunting he's he's a true conservationist um he's a guy who really truly believes in public land hunting and and and goes way out of his way I mean he gets plenty of offers to hunt on private land he prefers to hunt on public land and he prefers to do his best to try to do whatever he can to help keep those lands public yeah and to and to promote that and and uh I think one of the things he likes about hunting on my place is that he knows that after the fact we you know like when you were there and just like when this past year and every other year there's a small group of people at Hunt opening weekend after that I start

134:25letting other folks come in I mean it's our private land we're able to do but it is the Public's animal and yeah I put restrictions on folks you can't shoot a buck or you know it's got to be this big or whatever it is and uh and and he's applauded that in the past and I and you know I I that's really important to me um because they struggle with that a little bit but um but the alternative isn't very good where you land it's just wide open to anybody who wants to come in on it experience that no good well the problem is you can't really count on everybody to be ethical you can't really count on everybody to take care of your land with reverence and dignity and the way you treat it yeah you liability you can't let every Yahoo you know very important very important like like the the animal that got winged in the neck as he's going by that that the coyotes took a part you

135:17know who knows who shot that whether or not it was an ethical shot or just a bad shot and that's that's a big part of it well so that's the first episode the next two are two people that I I I hunted with us that I know and love and we actually um uh did a very similar thing to what you and Brian did the first time Britney and Helen uh hunted was in uh Montana that was a year ago and sort of like uh Steve did with you and Brian well very the next hunt was to bring them to our place so they went from hik and working hard and freezing and not seeing deer very much to freezing their ass off sitting in the blind MH doing and the weather cooperated it was nearly not nearly as cold as it was it was super snowy though coincidentally I was in town the night before opening day and I was so bummed out that I had scheduled it where I had to be in Colorado the next day and I

136:10barely made it out of Madison oh yeah like I was in your town man I know you were up well that can't happen again yeah we were thinking about K and I we're thinking about flying in on Sunday but schedules didn't permit yeah um that would have been that would have been great um next year yeah good cool I'm counting on it yeah well next year we're GNA manage it call and I were we made a a commitment to it we're talking about it we had so much fun two years ago yeah I can't believe we missed I'll do what I can to make sure the weather is not as bad we don't mind shitty weather and you know people ask me you know what was like with those guys they said you know as uh that's us yeah that's on stick which is still I think is still the number one mediator viwed YouTube video we had so much fun man it was so fun just hanging out just laughing now I am trying to interject some you know

137:05conservation wisdom into it it was so fun man so fun those that's one of the things about these experiences the comaraderie is almost as important as the hunting itself like just to have a bunch of guys hanging out having a good time uh on your farm and and this you have such a beautiful piece of land that what we were talking about earlier that we use the term driftless um and what that means is that this is the area where the the glaciers passed over they didn't go through this area so you have beautiful Rolling Hills and people think of Wisconsin as being like sort of a flat area which it is in some spots Southern yeah but where you guys are at it's amazing it's gorgeous and so much Wildlife too turkey we saw turkeys we saw we almost hadit a turkey on our way to the airport there's three of them big ones right and that would have that would have messed up our day I

137:56mean I don't know if we'd have made it if we' we would have made it we would have made it I would have knocked the glass out we would put our goggles on we would have drilled we would have made it don't worry about us don't worry about us another part of the reason I I know got the fire in the belly dude you said that go on and drive all the way they can take out your windshield though right a big birds man so uh uh so we had such a good time with that and uh I think when Helen and Britney who were beginner Hunters um they wanted to have that experience similar to what you and Brian had in in Montana well you know we don't to take it easy on us because we're you know whatever women or or whatever it happens to be and I would not take it easy on either one of those two for any reason because they're just they're they're badass those are badass women Helen's addicted to Jiu-Jitsu oh

138:43yeah yeah she's been doing Jiu-Jitsu with Anthony with Tony Bourdain they've been going crazy she takes it all the time she cost a ton of weight she looks fantastic yeah you know uh so we did a very similar thing although this time if you recall when you guys were there we had these blinds set up they were like pop-up blinds and stuff so uh Steve says you know I think we have to have them do ground blinds and you know how hard that was when we were inside those blinds I didn't really offer any heat or anything so it made complete sense well we built these beautiful blinds um the one that Steve built will be there after the Apocalypse you guys built them while you were there yeah yeah how you do just get some plywood and stuff oh no no no no no just with what was there I mean of course Steve had to take some wire and Bor twine and stuff along in Britney and I just went

139:31up where I was would just pull stuff together and kind of make a how many days did you do this for the blinds yeah oh a couple hours one afternoon okay so like you say well what was there you mean like wood and yeah Le you know uh branches from trees and and uh you know and that sort of stuff stuff that was just laying around what did you do with the one that I got that I bought you oh that's up on uh up we call it on a stick right up that's what that area is called now oh yeah you know well we name them all right so um I put four uh round bales on end there you go and then I set set it up on top of it and actually the second day I went up there with my cameraman and sat and uh it didn't make the show thankfully but uh I will admit on the air that I took a shot at a deer and just clean mister and I tell you I spent a couple hours that afternoon cuz I just

140:19couldn't believe I missed well you did you well when we were there I fell and up my rifle scope remember and you actually helped me sight it back in cuz I didn't know that was um we had an issue with the the scope being loose when it was set in whoever set it in um just did because we changed Scopes I had a Leupold and we put a Vortex on and when we changed the scope unfortunately it wasn't done right and uh there's some just some steps weren't taken to secure it correctly and just hard you fall on it that hard man cuz I I was up in a second it was off bad like more than a foot or close to a foot at 100 you know 100 yards well I wish I had that excuse I just clean miss that deer it was it was a poke I mean but she was standing still how many uh yards about 400 yards it was a poke but I had that's a long shot man uh and um I just I clean Mis now do you use one of those um

141:18iPhone calculator apps where like you have to like figure out like how far it is the velocity of your gun you know what are you shooting at 30 odd six uh actually I had a um a Savage 300 wind oh Jesus Christ they brought for me to you know oh yeah Savage is the sponsor of the show now right excellent guns oh Wonder Savage Arms are fantastic so um they have that special trigger too like it's like the one step two-step process so they have a very light trigger but it won't go off accidentally no and it was you know the the rifle was dead nuts yeah by the way I should say these guys I know about this stuff because of Steve rell's podcast it's called the me eater podcast which I talked him into doing and now he's uh now he's addicted to it too yeah it's great great fun famous great yeah it's a great podcast he's so good at it and yeah you had the guys from Vortex on there talking about the

142:10different things and um I learned a lot that day um so anyway I clean missed and um I know talked about this before and maybe the podcast I've I I said I've never regretted a shot that I didn't take and Steve is like really um because you know he's incredulous about most of the things that I say but um and most things everybody said well he challenges you that's for sure but I I took that shot and I kind of regretted it cuz it was a Long Poke and it was a rifle that wasn't my rifle I would have made that shot with my own but right over back and she ducked in the whole thing and man I I was sure I hit her I went down there and I'm did she jump the gun like did she drop down she the gun fire it zinged over her back oh and uh we watched it uh my cameraman and I kept watching it on the thing and so I went right down to the spot where I marked exactly where

143:02the spot was we had snow and everything and um I just clean mist and and it was a shot that in retrospect I kind of wish I wouldn't have taken especially with what was happening right then deer were starting to come to the field and all that but anyway and the point was it was from that blind that you sent me after that that hunt and so it that's where it lives is up there on top of the hill it's a great spot you'll love it when you see it um have you ever seen those bail blinds that are they look like a baale of hay and you you sneaky go inside them and you're like he some hay and we've actually just nothing happening here just a mail of hay just some hay oh we used to make some cozy blinds you know my old man would uh he'd take three four round bales and then put a little cover on top and you're in there toasty I I I I missed out on the biggest buck opportunity of my life cuz

143:48my old man let me get out of chores and the morning said you go out in that blind he's like me and your brother are going to kick one out of the swamp 10:00 rolls around and I'm so cozy and I'm passed out and uh all a sudden I hear my old man he's like hey what are you doing I get up I'm like what he's like didn't you see that thing I'm like oh it was too small and I can't remember what he was calling he was he had a name for it and he's just like that was you know swamp that was Mega bu you know and oh my God and I never I never well I didn't I was sleeping I was trying to make excuse you know my old I never live that down with my old man oh that's so cuz that was such a and we we were watching that guy you go out shining at night you ever been shining no you need you need to do that sometime is that like moonshining no you go with a spotlight you just drive around the

144:35country roads and and Shine the deer that are out in the field and just get a a g kind of monitor where they're at yeah well isn't that well that's what people use for poaching right it's legal to do during certain long as you don't have guns and you're not you can't do it during season legal oh you can't do it during the rifle season during hunting season no no no that's right it ends at a certain date well anyway um but what we did because the other problem with those blinds as you might remember is you're pretty damn crowded in them yeah and I actually sell a a a blind now called Shadow Hunter blind which is a different oh they're great yeah yeah um and so I have a few of those around um and and they they are great but we couldn't it didn't make sense to do that we had too many people and you know the filming so we built cool blinds for four people you know two PE two

145:24hunters and two cameramen but they weren't insulated then oh they sure weren't and the day before well you were there you know what happened it was beautiful the day before we were out squirrel hunting in the morning just these and these girls were shooting squirrels man just wait till you see this uh that they did such a great job they were so much fun and they were just so good squirrel murderers yeah anyway and they just like you and Brian man they they got it them they cleaned them they did the whole thing you know uh to the point where uh I think Helen was maybe a little regretful that she had uh uh well they had three deer to they broke down completely by themselves so did they um did everybody shoot a deer was everybody successful everybody but the guy who hosted it you yeah oh man that's crazy you got a big one last year right yeah I got a nice one last

146:14year I I I filled the freezer this year later on you know the season goes on what what are the G this oh I'm sorry well so we did much the same we set up and and uh it was really interesting we had a marine sniper trainer uh Steve uh NOS he's from actually from our area there he came in and talked to us about shooting a little bit and you know specifically for for Helen and Britney and uh I'm just so proud of those two you know they take it so seriously as as seriously as you and Brian did okay you take it really seriously and Brian take always took it seriously when he needed to take it seriously yeah um and uh very very into it very uh respectful wanting to know about and all that and we and I hope it I think it comes out in the episodes you know I'm so close to it I can't I can't necessarily say but we're very successful uh well I don't want to spoil it for everybody but yeah there

147:03were we put we put uh some deer on the ground and um and they they did a terrific job um and I think it makes for compelling uh for compelling episodes as well that show that show's always awesome um what I wanted to ask you is with all the Wildlife that you have in your area what what are the seasons I mean I know you have more than one season of deer so what when do the season start there's the archery season first yeah archery season starts September 15th or the second Saturday in in September how many archery do you have a lot of archery Hunt Hunters come out there yeah a lot um on our place no no no but I'd be happy to have one or two I don't even like rifle hunting that much anymore um well the thing about archery hunting for deer in our area is you know it's a very well but you you've learned all this too um hunting with Cam is that it's it they've got to be closer and I don't

148:00care how many of them there are they've got to be close and they've got to come and you're going to spend some time out there not much as going on but our archery season coincides with that that first part of November end of October first part of November where the pre- rut and rut is going on so there's a lot of deer activity and so there are um you know you can call and you can you use scents and all that stuff and they're coming in as you know it's a completely different relationship with the animal we actually have crossbow hunting uh now you can use a crossbow not a longbow and personally that's what I use um that's cheating yeah whatever uh that's not archery that's a shitty gun it has a scope on it yeah well it sure does does that's it's a magnification scope you put the Crosshair on you pull the trigger you sit it on a rest you can rest it down

148:51like you can that is not archery godamn it you can drink beer while you're doing that you can you can smoke shoot heroin shoot one those things well you don't have to practice with them much yeah at all and uh and it is certainly different than shooting a rifle um I'm comfortable at 50 or 60 yards with a crossbow yeah and I know people can shoot further and then I just from ethically I just I'm just not interested in that but I am interested in I don't have um boy if Cam was here he you know dragged me outside or maybe you will I always say that that bow hunting is for people who don't have enough to do and that true that it takes so much time to be an ethical bow hunter you're talking to a guy who shot 200 arrows today yeah I shot all day today I had a ho representative come to my house and we're we're shooting I have a whole 3D setup in my yard yeah we shooting a

149:42rubber elk all day today my arms are sore yeah yeah you got to be an well you have to be committed to it yes and I the hardest thing for me during that time of the year on the farm is to sit in a tree and wait for a deer to come by um I've got all of these other things that I need to be doing that during that period of time not at my at my work and you know in Madison or something like that but on that farm yeah so I'm actually moving a little bit more towards in during archery season is because I'm not had a whole lot of archeries and we've had a couple of guys over the years but to start to host people come I'm going to be there anyway I might be not partaking in it myself well that's my that's actually more attractive to me than even coming on an opening day now the how long does the uh archery season last uh until the uh 1 of January till the 1 of January so it goes

150:36straight through well you can yeah you can bow hunt during the gun season so I could have come down and bow hunted when those girls were shooting squirrels I could have bow hunted yes and when they were shooting deer you could have bow hunted you just had to wear an orange jacket rather than camouflage right but before that I could wear yeah so I could I could uh I could archery hunt and then bail and then take off right before Oh that first end of October first part of November uh when the the when the the active rut is going on that's that's the time what's what's the deal with the black powder is that still separate that's after after everything after the gun season so then it's black power black power I know I'm just kidding you got me you got me dude people don't know what we're talking about talking about muzzle loaders for some strange reason it's okay to use a primitive stupid

151:25weapon that you should never use in real life you put a ball and you pack the powder in like you're living in the 1800s and you shoot this stupid thing and the thing here's the thing about muskets this is the weird thing about them they're real accurate now like real accurate to like 200 yards so they're basically a rifle that you can't make a good ethical follow-up shot on yeah there's I don't like them the aerodynamics are I get it not only that you shoot and this giant cloud of smokes in front of you what happened boom where's the animal I don't know did he hit it well I don't know well there' be plenty of people who are going to you're going to hear from about that I know I know I listen it's it is definitely more accurate and better than a bow but my point is use a gun like why if you're shooting one of those things and it's accurate to several hundred yards some I know people that

152:16have shot a deer at 250 yards with a musket wow so with a muzzle loader when you're getting to that kind of a distance like what is that really you're you got a rifle it's a shitty rifle yeah if if you're talking about a bow if you shot something at 200 yards you're basically closing your eyes and shooting up at the sun you know who the knows where that Arrow's going you're shooting 250 yards but with a musket or a muzzle loader you can put the Crosshair on that thing you can accurately judge just like you can with a rifle the problem is it takes you like 15 to 20 seconds to reload as opposed to just going if you're if you want to make a follow-up shot with a rifle you know or there's a lot of people now that are hunting with semi-automatics where they you're going Pang Pang Pang you can shoot a deer three times in two seconds yeah the thing about the black Potter is you got

153:01to have your bayonet for the Finish that's the SE war boom and then you're on the Run do you have to have a flint it hits the thing and makes the Johnny rub yeah yeah and I mean everybody has their preference and I guess the thing on my or my family's Farm you know I'm the captain and the captain gets to decide what happens and um um and so you know and and it's like oh this is the way it's going to be I'm not absolute about anything you know over time things kind of EB and flow and change and and uh you know for me well I still want I want to be out there in that you know that part of that first part of November I don't have to practice every day I I can't where I live um I don't have to become uh and I readily admit it I you know I have an old hoid um and uh I like the bow and I'll shoot it once in a while but man 20 yards is about it where I feel like I can make an ethical shot

153:51how dare you we need to get you a new Hoy what year what year Hoy do you have oh man I'd have to check with Shane the guy I bought it from it was I bought it from him used cuz he was upgraded this like in the 60s like one of them Bamboo ones it's uh I think it's like a mid 80s maybe a late 80s laundry Wheels like for laundry ropes yeah uh mid 80s for Real uh mid to late 80s yeah H maybe it was early 90s I'm sure use a slingshot do you have any rocks you can throw are you doing man spear just jumping on the tree you know it's just not my uh uh my priority yeah and and and I have a lot of resp I have a lot of respect for bow Hunters who spend the time to become that proficient and and then you end up spending a lot of time white tail hunting in our ear is there's guys who spend a lot of time doing that and like I said I just don't I I I got more to totally understand I totally understand

154:49I'm totally busting your balls it's not something that I would I I don't think anybody should do it how about that don't do it don't go bow hunting it's too much work and it's too addictive just and forget about bow hunting if I never hunt again for the rest of my life archery is massively addictive I love it I'm I'm shooting I shoot every day it's it's so much fun to me it's a it's a nice peaceful like meditation type of a thing do they have like ranges out here yeah yeah there's a bunch yeah there's a bunch there's uh a big one off of uh the 210 a huge longdistance range but I think that um it's a it's a nice meditation it's nice to do but when it comes to compound bows man is really the difference between a bow from the 1980s and a modern like 2016 hoit defiant you might as well be shooting a musket versus like a modern Savage Arms rifle it's not that much difference yeah I

155:39mean the the the real the the amount of power that these things have now and the speed in which they shoot arrows and the accuracy there's so much Technology and Engineering going into bow it's really kind of amazing because it's one of the few pieces of hunting equipment that literally changes and improves every year and so I think about that when I hear these uh the bow hunting purist friends who are just cackling right now about you giving me about about bow hunting um which is great I mean they're going to well there's the real purist a thing I'm a cuz I use a compound bow they use recurs cuz they like not being accurate at all they like they like hoping they hit uh sorry I they're getting mad at me right now you you shoot a real bow like a man with your fingers make it yourself get some leather from the last animal you shot and wrap it around your fingers I

156:35actually think that Steve was talking about on this upcoming butchering one about how he was taking the how they used to take the silver skin off of meat and they'd get the long strips of it and that's what they made their bow strings with yeah senu yeah that's amazing to dry it out and roll it and turn it into I mean did you see his thing from um uh when he was uh in the jungle was it boria where the did he go Bolivia Bolivia God damn that was an amazing show two-part episode where they went to Bolivia and the traditional bows those guys use to kill animals they had these really heavy really long arrows and these stick bows that they had made themselves and he showed up with a ho carbon spider yeah and he's drilling yeah there's there's the uh bows that these guys had well look at that Arrow yeah yeah that's what I'm talking about they had these really long really heavy

157:27arrows and notice how there's no fletchings on the arrow and he's got the followup Arrow right there in his hand too yeah yeah they keep them in their hands and I remember on this episode um how he struggled to uh hit the fish because how the water would reflect the deflect the arrow I should say and these guys are just like nailing them one after another it's not just that it's not the water deflecting it's the image it looks different the the the fish is actually it could be as much as 6 in lower than what you think cuz the refraction in the water from you're looking down almost like a a lens so it's like distorted where the actual fish is so if you shot right at the fish you would never hit it you have to shoot like below it it's real weird you ever you ever see the the ones that people use in America the it's like a trident it's like a big you know there you're

158:17kind of making up for that you you got some we have all these prongs and they they shoot these arrows that like like a long spear they're doing stock but we uh when I was a kid we used to shoot carp up at the end of the lake and but they're because the sh water's real shallow and they go up there and just raise hell and their backs would be out of the water so you you know weren't dealing with it right right yeah I used to live near um Lake Charles in uh Boston and there was a area by the uh waterfall where the carp would pull up and it was incredible I mean you're looking at like these 20 30 lb fish and there's dozens of them just stacked together and you see them on the surface of the water you know but it's a a junk fish to us but a delicacy to people in the UK and in Asia it's very interesting like what one person yeah what one person decides is a good fish and then

159:11in you know and the problem was they were an invasive species in a lot of the North American rivers and lakes and people don't like them for whatever silly reason but they're a very good fish to eat apparently if you prepare it properly you can say you know a lot of things I mean you one of the things about grass-fed beef is um you know a lot of times it doesn't have the fat so I mean you got to know how to cook it you can't overcook it right that's a big point I mean you can say about any kind of meat I mean people can up a really good piece of meat you know mhm well especially a real lean piece of deer venison or elk or something like that moose same thing I mean you you want to barely like singe the outside of it almost and just and you know and knowing like how to prepare it is is a big part of the responsibility of hunting you know you don't want to have

159:57this meat that you've got from this animal and you have so much reverence for the death of this animal and then you just prepare it like an like you have to put almost as much thought into the cooking it's one of the things I really love about rell's show sir like the the episode that I watched last night about that Idaho mule deer that he shot this enormous deer was it really focused on at the end of it how he prepared it you know he showed you how to prepare it and how to cook it properly and how you can tell when it's done and all this different stuff and he'll he'll go through the butchering process he'll go through the cooking process and that's something a lot of these shows they don't even touch man they get the deer look at him he's a real Iowa Giant and they take a picture with this animal they show the antlers look at his fourths and his fifths and

160:38look at this brow time is sticking up like that or down in Texas in the tower they're in the tower D in Texas yeah yeah well there's a lot of that a lot of donating a lot of donating and there a good thing but yes it is a good thing but there's also shows where they pretend you know we're out here hunting you know you got these piles of corn out there that you're waiting for these animals to come to and you're you know you're just kind of shooting at these spots where you know they're going to be isn't that that's always an interesting part of any discussion about hunting about you know where are the ethical lines you know because guys will say well we because baiting is illegal by us because of uh the chronic wasting disease um when you put a pile of corn out they're exchanging saliva and that's how they that's how that's interesting cuz uh but you guys

161:22do have some deer farms which is where people think the origins of chronic wasting disease are from yeah there I heard an interesting uh uh discussion about that recently and one of the things they talked about is that there were these protein blocks being put out and that may have been they've never uh there have been a few different uh ideas of where it came from and um one is um uh from the deer farms another is these protein blocks that maybe got put put out and it's got animal byproduct in it and maybe that's how it jump species so is it like a uh Pyon thing is it something that's exactly what it is is a prion yeah so it's similar to mad cow disease that's exactly right oh wow so would that have come I I don't know um you know and I've even heard it uh said that um there are places where they were trying to improve the genetics of the deer herd so they

162:11were bringing in you know bigger bucks and releasing them I don't have any proof of any of it so those are just the things you hear that could be the case that they are they are very concerned with people that release these animals from these Farms out but there's some places like I got contacted by this guy hey man come Haun at my place and then I and I looked at his Instagram page and I'm like that's not even a de big cage well it I don't know I don't want to talk because I you know I don't know this guy I don't know why but it's a high fence operation um I don't even want to say what state it is but these are they're barely deer they're these these deer that have these bushes grown out of their heads if you see what their antlers look like you're like okay that's not even real Jamie pull up this uh ridiculous antlers in a deer farm they they're growing these animals

163:01and seen it man trophy trophy you call them trophies but essentially they're manipulating the genetics of these animals so they have all these antlers so that these rich can go and shoot these things in like this 100 Acre fenced in area where they're letting these animals out of their pens like look at that what is that what are we looking at here you're killing that deer for one reason but just for so you could put that on your wall I'm sure you could kill it and it would you know taste just like a regular deer I'm sure they're delicious and they probably but look at this man jez so they're growing these inane antlers by Fe supplements feeding them supplements and feeding them the that makes their like antler steroids that makes their antlers grow they they don't look like antlers man it looks like tumut looks like wallnut like Doug said we were talking about this it's criminal I

163:52mean Doug's very strongly opinionated about that I mean that's what's crial be careful they say caging them in caging them in and and having a you know 300 acres isn't that big and you got this 300 acre cage you know that's not hunting that's but I said earlier fish a barrel that's fishing a barrel but I said earlier that on 40 acres that's where that that deer but you know what he could live leave that 40 acres whenever he want he wasn't coming to a bait pile or any of that that's a big part of Ethics right and I figured him out yeah and I guess that's where I was getting to is you know where those lines are well this is the hunting that I grew up with I've never I've never hunted uh outside the Midwest I've really only hunted outside of our farm twice well I have a friend who hunted in Texas at a ranch that has 10,000 acres fenced in I'm like well as far as I'm

164:41concerned those are wild animals yeah 10,000 acres I mean there's not a animal on earth that's going to travel that far other than a mu deer there's not not an animal on earth that's going to migrate further than that in its lifetime you essentially have this gigantic fenced in habitat and their idea about it is look we can manage the wildlife sustainable Wildlife inside we're not feeding them anything they live off this but we're just keeping people out we're not keeping the animals in we're keeping people out I'm like okay I can buy song I think yeah is that a line of song a line of a song put up this fence to keep me out or keep all the nature in keep all the nature in was here tell it to your face man some kind of sin that's hippies though that's hippies that want to get on your land by the way you ever hear that the uh that bit where they're like uh the part about

165:31the sign uh the sign said um anybody caught trespassing we'll be shot on site you know it's it's like a radio bit you know right they yeah then it ends that's the end of the song It's Complicated business it's all a complicated business and and these ethical lines uh are difficult uh there it's something you have to think about it's something you have to talk about yeah and you got to be willing to change your mind sometimes too well baiting Bears is a big one baiting Bears is a big one because uh there's a lot of places where the only way especially in the spring you're ever going to kill a bears if you bait so they have to control the population of these Bears because the Bears are killing moose they're killing calvs uh they're killing fawns from Deer they're killing all sorts of things and they're killing Cubs they're killing each other I mean the Bears are killing machines so

166:21when they have these environments where they have to control the population they allow baiting the reason why they allow baiting is to make a successful hunt and recently I think in Maine it was I don't know if they passed it but they were trying to pass no baiting on Bears and the reason why they were doing it is because anti-hunting people were trying to stop people from hunting bears so the way they would essentially make a hunt completely ineffective with saying no baiting because as soon as you can't bait you can't find them yeah you're not going to have any success and you don't have for any success yeah no I I have friends who live in Michigan and they were telling me listen man you could go a decade without seeing a bear in the woods meanwhile they're everywhere yeah you just don't find them you go near them you hear they hear a Snapp and Twig like this guy and

167:04they walk so quiet those pads it's one of the weirdest thing about bear hunting is when you're out there and you're waiting they walk you know like you stand by like a trail where you know they head by you'll see one before you hear it like they'll just be right there you're like oh oh he's right there they're just so goddamn quiet amazing that such a big animal could be so quiet with slippers on their feet they have slippers like moccasin yeah I mean the pads have you ever touched a bear's pads it's weird man and it's designed to creep up on you know I mean that's why cats have them too they have those pads at the bottom of their feet they why don't they have hooves wouldn't Hooves be better yeah well Hooves make too much noise you can't be jacking with all that noise so they come creeping up on you but it's they're like little ghosts man weird cats and bears they're ghosts pad

167:53slipper wearing Ghosts no oh good stuff listen I think I think we're done I think we should wrap this pitch up bring it home um this a lot of fun man thank you absolutely hey I appreciate the opportunity man I I uh would say a little bit about yeah thank you very much and and to steal a line from Ray Wy hubard the days I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations are really good days and today is about as good a day as you could get well I really enjoyed it I appreciate you guys flying out here and doing this and uh I'm glad we could have this conversation and you know get get your perspective on things cuz I think a lot of people have uh you know listeners continue the discussion man I mean never stop learning that's what it's all about really I me this is all about just trying to figure out other people's perspectives work together work together man okay man just stay the off

168:45Doug's land you hippies yeah all we'll be back tomorrow with the great boss Rootin and moral ralo should be a lot of fun and then on Friday Robin black My Pal Robin and then on uh Sunday night fight companion all right so we'll see you soon much love friends that was cool