Cameron Hanes

00:02Jamie. Bam, And we're live with Filthy Skills. By the way, if people wondering what Filthy Skills is, this is a hilarious story cuz I just saw you wearing I ran into you in Salt Lake. I didn't know I was I was going to be there. By the way, Cameron Haynes, my friend Bo Hunter, where's my camera here? Wildlife conservationist, ultramarathon runner, ultimate badass. I was um in uh Salt Lake skiing with my family at the same time. What was it called? called the Great Western. It's a western hunting exposition, conservation exposition, something like that, which I really want to just drag some of the the biggest diehard vegans, some of the most the angry ones, and just let let them loose there and go wander around. They'd go, they'd go bonkers. They'd run into walls and scream and probably, you know, pee themselves. It's it's all just skulls and and and mounts and big

00:57cool stuff and uh places you can go to shoot your own food. But uh you were wearing this Filthy Skills shirt. So I'm like what what is Filthy Skills? And I've been seeing it on your Instagram. What is Filthy Skills? Right. This is hilarious. So some guy sent you this and we'll put it up on on the screen so you can see it on the YouTube. Some guy sent this which is a um a f this is a photo of a YouTube comment where this guy what you got it Jamie where some guy said to you here it is you for destroying our world with your filthy hunting skill. Yeah, your filthy hunting skill. Why don't you kill yourself instead to reduce the population, dumbass? First of all, the spelling on this is atrocious. It's almost like he got his dog to write that for him. Yeah. FK space letter U space for destroy. He got destroying right. Yeah. Our world. That's a tough word. Yeah. He's like he's he's weird.

01:53He's like population's good. Filthy is good. But you're he does you are people that do you are. What do you do with all that extra time that you spend between like yo you? What do you do with you know you don't have to spend that time working those fingers? Very efficient. Yeah. Your filthy hunting skills. So, you saw that and were like, "Hey, there's a couple things there. I thought, I did not know I had the power to destroy the world. I I am more powerful than I I ever knew. That's impressive, isn't it?" But then I also said, "Hey, I have filthy honeys." I thought that was sort of like a compliment. Yeah. So, it's hence the shirt. There's a there's such a disconnect going on in this world right now. We were talking about this today while we're practicing that. It seems like there's some sort of a culture war. There's a a movement of people right now. There's this whole eat what you

02:43kill movement and a lot of people are rejecting the idea of factory farming and rejecting the idea of uh buying processed food and buying cows that are locked up in pens and treated like like a commodity rather than like a living animal, right? and going out into the woods and hunting and getting their own food and and connecting to this sort of primal existence and self-sufficient self-sufficient. That's what I like about I don't I don't rely on anybody to feed my family and a lot of people love that. But then there's this group of people that are completely disconnected from the way the wild works that are very angry about all this. And there's some bizarre conversations that I've been having with some very well-meaning, very intelligent people. They're they're very nice people. And this is this is the this is where there's a big misconception here. Like I got I got

03:39into it with a gang of people recently. Like and I shouldn't even say I got into it because I've kind of given up on insulting people online because I don't get anything out of it, right? I get it. If you don't like it, I you don't like me. I get it. I like me. I like me. I'm a nice guy. I mean, if you meet me, if you meet me and you communicate with me nice, even if we disagree, I guarantee we're going to have a pleasant conversation. I'm a nice person, right? So, when someone like insults me or says nasty or makes a nasty video about me, I don't watch it. I'm not going to. And people, why don't you respond? I'm not going to. Why would I? I don't have enough time. I don't have enough time to spend with the people I love. I don't have time. I don't have time to hang out with you. Yeah. What am I? I have 15 extra minutes to watch a video and then make my own video and reply. I don't

04:27have time. This world this life is short. Okay. So, I I get that people are upset, but the core the core message that everybody's getting out, there's one of two messages. One message is you should never eat animals at all and that we should live this uh idealic existence where everyone lives off nuts and and twigs and and vegetables and that's all you eat. Pine cones. Okay, you can that's fine. And you can do that. But then there's the other that you support and I support that the best way to live in this modern world is to go out and get your own meat. Problem with that, of course, this is a real problem. Everybody can't do that. There's not enough wildlife. There's not enough time. And and I don't think that we uh we think everybody should do that. No. What our point is, and I think people like us, is you don't have to do it, but don't condemn it. Yeah. don't condemn it

05:21because we are I mean as you said in in my intro conservationist hunters are conservationists we're the one that's paying the money for habitat for all these biologists to tell us exactly how many animals are out there they got boots on the ground and they're out there with the animals doing the number surveys um figuring out harvest harvest numbers to try to achieve carrying capacity the guys online who think that grizzly bears are almost extinct and like how could you kill a bear you They want to kill me because I killed a bear in Alaska that they probably you have no clue how many bear are running around Alaska. But somehow they know that I shouldn't have killed it. They don't know how many are there. They don't know what the bear with the bear population where I killed two brown bear which are grizzly bear and a black bear. They don't know that those bears need to be

06:10controlled otherwise they decimate the moose population. It's it's all moose everything. Yeah. And part of that balance is humans. So people always say, "Well, animals will take care of themselves." You know, they've always they've always, you know, it's worked out. Predators kill, blah, blah, blah. We're just interfering. Well, yeah, we're interfering also because of your house, you know, we're taking habitat. So, we can't let the animals sort it out because we're the ones encroaching on habitat. So, we are in that process. We are at the top of the food chain. We require habitat, too. They require habitat. So, there's a balance. It's all part of the equation. It is. And this this balance is there's some parts of it that are set in place before you and I were born and before a lot of these people that are arguing everybody before everybody that's arguing about this has

06:58been born. The cities were already in place long time ago. Um the food chain has already been in place. The the market chain has been in place as far as like getting food to supermarkets. Most of the supermarkets that are in existence were there long before you and I started shopping at them. And that's that's a part of this equation of human beings. Another part of the equation of human beings is what you're talking about with predators. And this is one of the things that I had a discussion about with the guys who I really like. And there's some misconception. I didn't like these guys. The guys that made that movie Cowspiracy. Oh, right. They're very good guys. They're very smart guys. They're they're they're vegans. They became vegans while I think factory farming. Well, it's a lot about factory farming and a lot of it is about the amount of waste uh methane uh that gets

07:43into the atmosphere because of factory farming. Um the the actual waste as far as their their the cows and what the the amount of devastation that does to our environment and how much actual land these animals need to graze in order to to feed them. It's it's these are really complicated numbers and disputed. They went with the extreme on one end and there's some other people I'm having tomorrow. Doug Durren, my friend from uh M Minnesota uh Wisconsin, my my buddy from um uh he's uh from the Steve Vanilla Show, Meat Eater. He has that uh large uh ranch out in um uh what is the name of this? Uh you hunted out there, right? Yeah, I'm trying to figure the name of the town. He's a very weird small town. Anyway, he's in uh Wisconsin in this really cool area where it's the um you know they have uh it's called the Drifless area where the glaciers mist so it's all hilly and gorgeous and

08:42beautiful and that's where he lives and he raises cows out there and he's going to come in and give his perspective on a lot of this stuff as well. Um, but they did they had this really strange idea about wolves and this strange that I had to correct them and this idea about, you know, that we've hunted the wolves to near extinction and now they reintroducing people won't hunt them again and, you know, they really have to stop that. I'm like, man, you got to this is wolves are cool. And this is one of the things that I said these guys, nobody wants to eliminate wolves. But throughout human history, long before we were around, people have had a problem with wolves. And there's a reason for that. All the big bad wolf stories, all the Little Red Riding Hood, all that It's because wolves are terrifying. They are very, very dangerous. And I brought up the whole

09:29World War I incident where the Germans and the Russians had a ceasefire because so many of them were getting killed by wolves. They made an agreement. They're like, "Look, obviously we got a real problem that's bigger than us." like team people, let's stop killing each other for a little while and kill these wolves. And they killed the wolves and then went back to killing each other. It's a crazy story. And then there's the other story from the 1400s in Paris where wolves killed more than 40 people in Paris, the city of Paris was overrun with wolves. It's insane. Wolves are killing machines and you have to keep their populations down. And if you don't, you run into huge problems. people bring up, there's this video that people bring up all the time, how wolves changed rivers. Um, and it's a fascinating video. We've played it on here before. The problem with that

10:17video is the guy who made that video is nuts. Okay? And he is uh romantic to the extreme in the idea of introducing keystone predators into these areas where they haven't been before. His idea was that wolves are making things better for all these other animals by getting rid of the But they're not. They're decimating the elk population. And there was a a thing written by scientists disputing all of his claims that were in that video. So then I went like, what's this guy's deal about? So I I listened to this NPR uh podcast on him. Mhm. This wants to bring lions back to Europe. He want He's like, there's parts of the UK that are empty and we could reintroduce lions and hyenas. Like are you are you out of your mind? Good idea. You're going to bring The UK is not that big. No, you're going to bring lions, like actual African lions, and his idea is that they've found these

11:11these fossils of these lions that existed there thousands of years ago. So, they need to be back. He wants to reintroduce them. Well, people have the And by the way, this guy was suicidal and depressed, like to the extreme, ready to kill himself, and then decided to what he calls reing. He reintroduced himself to the wild, started experiencing the wild, and fell in love with wildlife and nature. And that's what pulled him up out of this. And now it's his mission. Hey, I'm in love with wildlife and nature, too. Well, realistically, but realistically, right? Yeah. Well, it's And I do want to say one thing because we've talked about factory farming and, you know, the downside of it. We're not lumping ranchers, regular ranchers that that raise cattle. I mean, my family is a cattle ranching family in Eastern Oregon. So, I'm not talking about, you know, cows that are out with enough

12:02pasture out there and then and then being killed, taken to market and killed. We're talking about that animals that don't leave the cage or standing in, you know, their own feces and just never move and never have a life and then have a bolt shoved through their head and they're dead. You know, we're talking that that extreme. That's not everybody. I have a lot of respect for farmers and ranchers and uh I mean so we we don't want to lump everybody into ranchers are all factory farmers for sure. No, they're certainly not. And one of the things that I noticed when I was in um Montana when I first went hunting with Reanella, we went through the Missouri brakes and there was all these cows wandering around and I was like, what is the deal with this? Well, those cows literally wander free on public land. They have and this is what this Oregon nutty is about and what the

12:48Nevada nutty was about with all these crazy ranchers that want to take over the government. Like yeah, that's not good. But the what do they call it? Y-aida. That's my favorite my f we don't even know. We never even found out who came up with that description. Someone was claiming that someone on the podcast came up with that description. Um, when we were in Montana, we were we that's when I first got introduced to this that they these animals literally roam free and wild. They sleep outside, they eat outside, they wander through, and then they're coralled. And when they're brought to slaughter, then they're coralled. And so for the majority of their life, they live, you know, off the land almost like an elk. Yeah. Like a wild animal essentially, except they're someone's someone's property, right? Some people have a hard time with that. They have a hard time

13:35with the idea of property of an animal being property. And I I get that too, man. Another thing I watched recently was this Pen and Teller um from that. Do you ever see that show No. It's a great show. Um that they used to do on Showtime. But one of them they did was on PETA and the Animal Liberation Organization or whatever the they're called. Yeah, I've heard of that. Foundation. They're freaks, I think. Holy Yeah. Violent arsonists burning down buildings, spray painting vegan power and these I mean just like the nuttiest But they don't think that people should have pets. Mhm. They don't think And here's one of the best parts about it. One of the women that was in this program who works for Peeta is also a diabetic. This is where you got to buckle yourself in because there's only one way you get that diabetes medicine. It's from animals. So it's an animal product. And

14:26so she was saying that she didn't think that she was a hypocrite because that product saves her life so she could save more animals. Well, guess what, face? That's what hunting is. Exactly. That's what hunting is. I mean, if you if you go out and you hunt a wolf, and I'm I'm not into hunting wolves, but if they have to control their population, like, I'm not into hunting anything I don't eat. Somebody Somebody's got to kill them. Somebody's got to do it. And they're they're doing it, by the way. They're they're And also, here's another thing about California. California mountain lions are a giant issue. There was an article that I posted up recently. Pull it up, Jamie, that someone someone sent me yesterday. They did this. Look, you cannot hunt mountain lions in California. There's the reason for it is not it's not logical. It's all based on on people who are animal lovers

15:11who got into a position of power or voted this in. Well, there the study they're finding because they they kill these mountain lines when they start moving into neighborhoods and killing pets. And it's super common. They've killed what's the number of mountain lions they've killed this year because it's it's crazy. Okay, here we 170 107 mountain lions were killed last year legally by the government. So that's 107 mountain lines that people didn't get tags for, which means that's money that didn't go into the state coffers. Then it didn't go to conservation. It's just money. It's it's the works the opposite. The state is paying Exactly. State is paying for in the hole. They're going in the hole instead of going into the profit margin, which what they normally did. I'm in the black and red. I don't I'm color blind, man. Okay. But so they they analyzed these mountain

15:59lions and they found that mostly what they're eating is pets. Yeah. They're they're eating only 5% had eaten deer, right? Well, they're going to go with the easiest target. Yeah, but that's insane. Only five. Granted, a lot of these animals, they're what they're killing. They're already problem animals. Well, and what happens with lions is they're so territorial. So, the younger lions come up and the more dominant lions have their area. So, the younger ones are forced to go somewhere else. They can't really cross. So, they go somewhere else. What's left is cities. Yeah. And neighborhoods and residential and that's where the pets are. So, I mean, those are probably juvenile lions mostly and down in there. And it's just a matter of time before a little kid gets snatched or whatever. And people don't want to talk about that or think about that, but that's the

16:46reality of it. They're just predators. They're killers. They're going for the easiest target right now. That's uh dogs and cats. But they don't care. They don't care. They're not hugging each other and crying like we've seen billboards of that either. We're going to get into that in a moment. But I think this is what I'm trying to get at. Um this is where I think there's a dispute and a misconception. And the misconception is that hunters are all these evil people that want to hunt these animals to kill them so they can put them on their wall. Almost all of the money that goes to fish and game fish and wildlife management organizations that protect wetlands that protect um public lands for for camping and for for people to use and people to enjoy and go hike that the money to support those comes from hunting. Yeah. People hate that. They hate it. But by

17:38far, by far, the amount of money that comes from conservation comes from hunting by far. It's for the amount of money goes for conservation. Yeah. For the animals. For the animals, for habitat restoration. You know that show we were just at in Utah, um they had a mu deer tag that was auctioned off. They give for analopee island tag. They give two tags. One is in the drawing, so you have a very small chance of getting it because there's huge bucks. And where is analopee island? I don't know. Utah. Um I'm not sure exactly where it is there. Is it an actual island? I don't know. I don't know if it's just a place they call Analopee Island or if it's an actual island. Jamie will find out. It's a state park. Yeah, it's I knew it was a park, but I didn't know if it's an actual island or not. Um uh but anyway, so one is a drawing. There it is. So it's Is that the Great Salt Lake there?

18:27Yeah. So it's a You see that it's that it's out into the Great Salt Lake and it's not it's not a detached island. It doesn't look like it's just a long peninsula. Yeah. So, it's a peninsula they call Analopee Island and that's there's huge bucks and I think uh there's sheep there also, but the bucks are what draw the draw the money. So, they auctioned one off and uh it went for $410,000 for one deer tag. And that most of that money, 90% 10% goes to uh to funding the auction and doing all the things that's required there. 90% of that $410,000 goes right to habitat restoration on the island. Um building uh water water sources, enhancing those um re relocating animals off that peninsula there because the genetics are genetics are so good. The animal the bucks are big and uh the sheep are big. So they're re relocate those superior genetics throughout Utah. So then you

19:24might not draw that tag or you might not have $410,000, but those genetics are spread throughout Utah. So they're spread in areas where general hunters have the access to. And uh it's just it's all positive. It's all positive for the state park. And you know, anti-hunters will say, "Well, if you really cared about the animals, you just, you know, do the $410,000 and not go hunting." Well, it's true. Why doesn't an anti-hunter do that? Well, here's here's a part of the problem. There's there's a bunch of problems with with all these discussions. And a big part of it is that the people that are arguing against the hunting. They they they don't regularly go into the wild into these habitats into these environments and see how brutally hard they are for these animals to survive. Anyway, it's not like if you kill a buck and that buck live to be 5 years old,

20:15you might be taking a year off its life. That's it. Right. No. Maybe. There's no there's no hundred-y old deer out there that live a long long great life. And this is the idea. And one of the parts of hunting that actually aids in conservation is when you get a mature buck and you harvest that mature buck, you are allowing the younger deer to breed where they might not have gotten the opportunity. And you're also in a lot of cases saving their lives because they get killed in fights with older deer. Like a lot of deer die from fights. People find them all the time. They literally stab each other to death. They don't have those antlers to look cool. No, they don't have They slam into each other. That's what they do. Same with elk. Yeah, same with elk. I mean, when you and I were in Colorado was one of the coolest things we saw is when remember when we went down near

21:05that little creek area and there was there was like a a huge herd of like 20 elk together and those elk were duking it out and slamming into each other. Oh, it's amazing. Well, here's another thing that I don't think anti hunters realize. You know, you go out for an extended period and the killing, the actual killing is such a small part of the hunt. You know, I mean, it's those experiences like when we saw those bulls fighting and we saw I think there were seven bulls and there's one nice bull, a 350 class bull. He was a herd bull, but their satellite bulls spread throughout on the he's he kept them pushed out and they were jostling around and we were there. We didn't kill anything, but the experience of that night was one I'll never forget. Um, we had a bull sneak in behind us to 15 yards and a nice bull, a bull that would have been a great bull for you to kill and it didn't happen.

21:56But it was just like the adrenaline of that experience. I mean, he was right there behind the bush. I mean, right there. He was so screaming. But nothing died. No, it but we were predators. We were predators. They were prey. And that's that's life. That's life in the mountains, right? That's how it works. Even if we didn't have a bow, even if we weren't there to kill anything, if we just had calls, if we were just calling them in, it would have been an amazing experience because when you were there with essentially as wild an animal as you're ever going to get. I mean, a a North American elk is a 1,000 lb gigantic wild animal with a tree grown out of its head. And it's living the way it's lived for thousands of years. And you, you know, you as a person who lives in Oregon and me as a person who lives in California, we travel onto their land. We we hike in to where they're at

22:48and we experience this wild existence that they live in. And we don't want to stop that. We're not trying to kill them off. We want more of them. We And that's this is the idea of killing a mature one. You want to take out an animal that does not have much time left and you help the rest of the animal survive because of that. You you make it so that the younger bulls have a chance to thrive and breed. Otherwise, they're pushed out. They're pushed out and they're not doing anything. And but but I will say one thing. So you said um even if we wouldn't have had weapons, it would have still been been amazing. But to me, it would have been different. Yes. It would have been different because if I'm just an observer internally, I feel a lot different. I only I feel like I'm a predator when I have a weapon. So, I don't know if I could have if I would have worked as

23:39hard, if I would have cared as much if we were just observing. You know what I mean? Cuz if you remember that we snuck down, we were sneaking or I mean we were on our butts kind of scooting down and the two bulls were jostling around right there kind of sparring a little bit and we had a a small window through the brush and I was like you were right right here and I was looking I'm like I said can you get see see that window? Do you see that window where you can get that arrow through? And it was just that in the intensity of that moment. So you're a predator that's your prey. How can you ethically kill it? That's where all the all it comes down to. I mean, that's why we're there. To me, that's everything, you know? It's just that that crunch time moment. Well, this is one of the most ridiculous things that you see when I look at your Instagram or even my Instagram. If I I rarely post a

24:26picture of a dead animal just because of that. I'll post fish all day long and nobody gives a Nobody gives a about fish. It's hilarious. It's hilarious. The the hierarchy. Well, fish, they're not alive, are they? I I hear they are. I believe they are. But um if you post a picture of an elk or god forbid a bear, people lose their minds. And one of the things that people love to say is if it's an original thought, it's one of those things. They usually say, "Yeah, you're such a big man. How about you do that without a weapon?" I love that. Without a What hunter has ever killed anything in the history of man? We're still That's why hunters are Tell me a hunter, even a caveman that ever killed without a weapon of some sort. What are they talking about? They're not talking about anything. They're just talking. They're just trying to demean you. And I go to their page and one of them

25:18I This guy was feeding his animals meat. And I'm like, "Did that come from a meat tree?" He's like, "This guy was all over you." And then I go to his page and he's got dogs. He's got dogs and he's feeding the meat. I'm like, "Oh man, there's some convenient thinking going on here. It's it's so strange how many people have these convenient patterns of thought where they're self-righteous. They take the moral high ground. Now look, I the only person that has any say, the only person that has a leg to stand on is a person who's a vegan, who doesn't eat any any animal products. Any animal products, okay? That's a small percentage of the population. But if they want to criticize it, there and they have an argument, they they have a very small leg to stand on. Now, when you have a conversation with them, that's when that argument kind of falls apart. It does because okay, if they're

26:05hardcore vegan, fine. But are they growing their own vegetables? Very few. Because if they're not, they still are responsible for animals dying. If you've ever driven by, if you ever been into farmland and say uh where where a field's been harvested, once a field's harvested, you'll notice buzzards flying around that field. You know why? Because there's a bunch of dead animals out there. There's rabbits that were killed during the harvest. There's mice. There's also so fawns. What? Yeah. Birds, grouse, whatever. I mean, those, you know, the combines or whatever they're using out there is just tearing everything up and thing animals are dying. So, you can unless you're growing your own vegetables, unless you're do it yourself vegan, you're responsible for animals dying. If your house isn't made of wood, because if it's made of wood, there's timber harvested. And when that

26:58timber was harvested, animals died. So I mean well they're also their habitats displays, right? So I mean people well I think with their ideas they want to do the least harm possible. Okay. But a lot of them already came from a background where they eat meat. Like I had this one guy was arguing with me. Wasn't even argue with me. Was giving me all his grief. And then he admits that he was a meat eater just seven months ago. He's been a vegan for seven months. He's 40. So, so for 39 years and three months, this five months, whatever it was, how bad is my math? So, this guy for all these you you were very quick, though. Your math is very quick. But my point is, seven, come on, man. You can't say that. Seven months ago, you were a vegan and you're all you were you were a meat eater. You're all over these people. But it's it's a it's a a moral high ground. They

27:50they they elevate themselves. They're a bunch. They're red. they're above us because we're redneck hunters, right? Same thing. I had this kid, he looked like he was maybe younger 20s, but he's, you know, I mean, he's uh very passionate about his stance on what's right and what's wrong. And so I went to his page, same as you. I see a bunch of hot dogs on the grill, and I was like, "Dude, enjoy those hot dogs, but before you judge me or condemn me, why don't you live a little? You're 20 years old. What the hell do you know about anything?" And all of a sudden, you know what's right and wrong? And he's like, he says, "I'm going to have to answer for this or karma or some crazy thing." I'm like, "What do you know? You haven't even lived yet." Well, not only that, hot dogs are probably the worst. This is one of the worst I mean, that is ground and cow dicks. I mean,

28:39it's the probably one of the worst things you can eat, too. Filled with nitrites and nitrates and whatever is bad for you. I understand that they're trying to work it out for themselves. A lot of times people want to condemn people that are living a lifestyle that's outside of theirs. They decide, hey, I'm going to live this small carbon footprint lifestyle where I'm going to be humane and I'm ethical and I'm going to be crueltyfree. # crueltyfree and I'm going to go on. It's like hashtag crueltyfree. It's like they want to tell you, yeah, half of them have vegan in their names, which is hilarious. Uh, vegan this, vegan that, healthy happy, vegan vegan flower child. everyone's it's but it's a part of their name like it's it's a big part of their identity and it becomes it becomes like a cult and I don't mean it like you know you have to initiation and pay dues but I mean it's

29:29like you're a part of a gang and it's it's people have a tendency to do that good or bad they have a tendency hunters have a tendency to do it people who use Windows have a tendency to do it but I don't like Apple I like windows and if you use Apple you're a piece of well but but hunters don't have the hate that these anti-hunting vegans have they don't they don't I mean hunters don't go to their pages and and on them free vegetables who cares live your life. Yeah. You know well I get where their thought process they think they're doing the right thing. They think they're doing the right thing. Yes. And there's a lot This is another thing I want to point out and I I went on this Twitter page uh discussion the other day. I went on this rant. I don't hate vegans. I have vegans that are friends. It's not I don't and I know I'm not lumping everybody in. You know, this is there's

30:16a small percentage of people that are that are arrogant and outspoken and really aggressive and mean and shitty. And where's the cruelty-free there? Like, why are you being cruel to other people that are living? Look around the go outside and drive for 20 minutes and I guarantee you, you're going to pass 30, 40 places that have dead animals in them. Every supermarket you pass by, every fast food place, every restaurant, every gas station has slim gems at the counter, all of that is animals. So for you to find a hunter, the one person that you could point to that probably kills animals in the most ethical and humane way possible and pays money to be to play part of the conservation role. Yeah. You know, and people hear these podcasts, all you guys do is justify what you do. You have to justify it. Maybe there's something wrong. No, it's that the arguments are tiresome.

31:09There's a guy that's coming on next week. His name is uh how do you say his name? Tovar. How do you Cerule Tovar Cerui? I think that's Seri. He's uh an author and a guy who used to be a vegan who's now a hunter, right? And uh panties will be bunched. They will get Sandy and uh tweets will be tweeted good. It's gonna get crazy. But I I just think that podcast like this and conversations like this with uh a guy like you, like I think what you do is the best way to do it. I mean, I've said this time and time again, what you do is the best way to do it because what you're doing, first of all, it's the most difficult way to do it and you prepare your body for it in a very grueling fashion. We worked out before we got here and you work out every day. And one of the reasons why you work out every day is going through the mountains is hard as It is. It is hard, man. Yeah. I I never

31:56knew until I went with Reinella that first time we went up to the Missouri brakes and we're climbing the mountains for 7 hours a day. Yeah. I was like, "Oh, okay. This is this is not going to the gym and getting on the elliptical machine. This is constant and it's all day. And if you're packing you have to be strong. You have to be physically strong." You do. I mean, and you remember in Colorado when we were huffing it up that ridge, you know, we were at the bottom of the canyon, heard a bull bugling. Is the bull you killed? Yeah. This dude takes off like a mountain goat. I'm I'm I'm in pretty goddamn good shape and I'm like and he's like he's not even breathing as He gets to the top of the mountain. That's how he saw the bull is at the top of the mountain you you spotted it. But well that that the sun was going down. We had a lot of elements going. I could tell the bull was a good

32:40bull just by his bugle. And we had been huffing it down there done trying to get on the bull that was bugling. We never could get eyes on him. But then I heard what sounded like a mature bull and it's just then sun going down and that's why you train. Right. Exactly. It's that that's exact situation. You're coming out of a hole. You're climbing, you know, 9,000 ft. The air is thin there and it's a race against time essentially. But I mean, we made it work. Yeah. You don't you you were able to close the distance in a much more efficient way because of all your training. And uh that was a a good example of another good example of it was the packout. I mean, we're packing on a lot of weight, man. This This has two elk quarters in his backpack. So, it's like 180 lbs. I mean, how much is that? Heavy. I don't know. Heavy as You basically have me on your back and

33:28you're walking a mile with this, you know, and there's one there's a photo. Well, I I'm sure I have some photos of us from from this very trip that we're talking about. We're packing these things out. But the point is what you're doing to acquire when you have an elk steak and you sit down with this and I had this conversation with Remy Warren about it where he's like it's almost like a religious experience. He's like this is a precious piece of meat. I've gone into the wilderness. I've harvested this animal and I have a precious piece of meat. He goes and I treat it almost like a baby. He goes like I season this and I cook it perfectly. And this is he has this intensely intimate connection and I do with the animal that we killed. that animal that you and I killed. When I eat that thing, I think of our time together. I think of how difficult the hunt is. I think of how crazy the

34:15environment is, how beautiful the experience is. There's so much more to it than going to a store and buying a squash, right? You know, and this is what people need. Even buy well, buying a steak, sure, but even buying even a a vegan or a vegetarian. But your your vegetables, you're disconnected from these vegetables for the most part. Most people are. Yeah. There is an intense connection with the food that you eat, even if you grow it yourself. Like my wife gardens, and I do as well, and she does it more than I do, but we'll have salad from something that we grew in our garden. And it's awesome, man. It's awesome. Like, we're chopping tomatoes that we planted as seeds, and we fertilized the ground, we watered it, and it came up. We picked the the tomato and now we're slicing into it and it's amazing. the whole process and that's that's where the hunt that's where the

35:02hunt where the training and the preparation and the reverence for the animal and the harvest of the animal and the care of the meat and you get it to your house and you put it in your freezer and then you thought then you put that whole process is right I'll agree with Remy there is reverence to it and it and it means so much and for a hunter for and I I think you know as u just being a provider and just being like like I always say self self-sufficient and doing is hard. It's a lot easier to go to the store and say, "Hey, here's some of my money. Can I have that meat? Thank you." Okay. Somebody else did all that, all the stuff we just talked about. Somebody else did that with no reverence, right? And I'm eating it with no reverence. Yes. You know, so to do it on your own is I mean, it's it's why it's what I train. It's what I prepare for every day. And it's uh it just means so much.

35:55Well, it's enriching in a very strange way that I had never experienced in my life until I started hunting. I had never had this kind of connection with my food except for maybe going fishing, you know. Um this uh last summer I took my kids to Hawaii and my kids love fishing. My little girls love it. It's fun because, you know, they can put a line in the water when they catch something and then we're cooking it and eating it later. They're like, "We caught this." And they keep saying like, "Mommy, we caught this fish that you're eating." like they there's like a primal connection to to this thing and but other than that I had never experienced this sort of primal connection to your food and all you know nonsense aside like there's a difference between a fish and a mammal there just is totally and there's a there's a big difference between the reverence that you have for in my

36:48opinion the most majestic of animals that you hunt which is elk I think it's the most majestic oh They're they're they're mythical creatures, man. They're crazy. Elk sheep sheep are up there, you know, they where they live and the regalness, but elk is uh God, just because they're so so iconic throughout the West, you know, a big bull elk is just what, you know, when you envision the West, you envision mountains, you think of a big bull elk, and then when you say, "I'm going to hunt this with my bow." Yeah. It's intense. It's hard to do, too. And uh god damn you forget me addicted to this It's a real problem. I'll text him every now and then like I'm in the middle of doing something. I'm like, I wish I was bow hunting. I swear to God, this is boring. I'd rather even just shooting. We shot at a rubber target today. It was awesome. I have a rubber elk that sits

37:34up on my hill and we did a little uh FaceTime video. We were out there doing it. But just shooting at that rubber elk is cool. No, that's what I would say. I mean, you can take anybody. You can take the coolest person you know. Just think just sit here and think who who's the coolest person I know or who's the coolest girl I know. You take that person, you put a bow in their hand, and you get them shooting a bow. They're cooler, aren't they? That's your thoughts. No, that's my Yeah. I mean, shooting a bow makes you more of a badass. I prefer girls that don't like to hunt. That way, they don't want to come with me. No, I don't want them to hunt. They don't complain while they're up there and they don't want to do I don't want them to hunt. I just want them to shoot a bow. Don't screw up my hunt. No, I'm kidding. I like Sexism in hunting. Does it exist? It does. Next on

38:17Oprah. No, on Dr. Drew. He would love that. And he would get me on there and just crucify you. He would. And he would get a bunch of girls who don't know anything about hunting to yell at you. Have a lot of big opinions. He when we got back from uh Brazil, it was right when this whole Cece of the Lion was going down and these people wanted to have a hunter on to yell at essentially. And I was telling you, don't do it. And And the first time you didn't do it, I I got you to leave. I was in the green room. I was I was in the green room and getting ready for hair and makeup. and it just like wasn't feeling good. Yeah. I'm glad you talked to me. I'm glad we had a conversation. So, I left, but then I I I did go on. Yes, you did go on later. But it was after the smoke had settled and you went on with a conversation about ethical acquisition of meat. And you know, Dr. Drew eats

39:08meat. So, yeah. You know, a lot of those people on that show eat meat. Yeah. It's just bizarre. It's a bizarre conversation. It's bizarre. I mean that show whatever they the show is around because controversy. So well one of the funk and hilarious things in the show was the woman who was saying that the reason why there's not so many grizzlies is because we've killed off all their predators. That's right. She that that which means dinosaurs by the way. Saber-tooth tigers. What the eats a grizzly? Jesus Christ. Have you ever seen a grizzly lady? Yeah. There's nothing eating them except other grizzlies. They're pretty much the top of the food chain. And I mean, well, we are, but they they're not really on the same page that we think we are. They think they are. So, there's a little bit of a conflict there. There's a huge conflict. I mean, essentially, it's like

39:53two different kingdoms. They're on the top of the food chain in the wild kingdom. We can get them in their world, but we got to get the out as quick as we can. We can only exist in their world for a couple weeks at the most, and then we're like, "Okay, we got to get back to an actual bed, and I I need to take some vitamins, right?" No, it's uh I don't know. It's Well, according to uh um the woman from um God damn, my brain is foggy today after working out. What's her name from um Life Below Z? Sue Akens. Sue Akens said that she saw a bunch of uh wolves run down a young grizzly and kill it. Oh yeah. Okay. She said a young grizzly was coming out of its den and when they come out of their den, they're kind of weak and these these wolves knew it. So they chased after it and they were biting its legs and they're chasing down and it happened like a 100 yards from

40:42her house. 100 yards from her house. Sound like she lives in LA here, right? No. This this lady is so badass. Yeah, she's intense. She is the most gangster woman on the planet. She really is. She's I have massive respect for her. Yeah, she's just so cool, too. She came in and she's It's not like she's like some weird loner who hates people. She loves people, but she prefers to live in one of the harshest climates on the planet 200. That's awesome. She's so badass. You know how much tougher she is than probably 99% of the men that live here in LA? She's tougher than me, tell you that. This is what this lady did. She got attacked by a bear. Bear tore her apart, okay? Broke her leg, broke her hip, cracked her skull. She they they she had to crawl back to her house. The bear was just her up because she was in its territory. So, this bear mauled her, right? She lived. She

41:33managed to live. She got back to her house. She was stuck for days where she couldn't walk. Her leg was broken. She was stuck. She couldn't get to the phone. Okay. She like couldn't lift herself up. She had to wait for someone to find her. So these people found her like I think it was 7 days later. She got healed up, went back, shot that bear, and ate it. There you go. That is so gangster. I say with all due respect. That is amazing. She's so gangster. Well, let be let me expand on something before I get people hating me for uh I women bow hunters. I love you. I uh I actually We're joking around, folks. We are a little bit. I love that women hunt. I love that. I do, too. I do. I mean, I want to I'm taking Dana Leesh uh bow hunting for bear this year. So, I mean, I I don't have and I want to, you know, me and Eva have been talking about getting together for a hunt. So, just

42:23all joking around. I do like I do just like people shooting bows. Even Yes. If you can envision this, if Obama shot a bow, I'd probably think he was cooler. And that that is amazing. That is amazing. Uh Eva Shaki, we should say who Eva is too by the way. She's the daughter of Jim Shaki, who's been on the show, who's an amazing, fascinating guy, who has a show, even if you don't like hunting, there's an amazing show called Uncharted, and it's it's barely about hunting. It's really about different cultures. And this guy goes to all these this guy Jim Shaki is as cool and interesting as it gets. He is just a fascinating fascinating guy. And he travels to these remote places in the middle of Russia. And he went to Afghanistan. And he's uh he he went to Africa to this remote village that has a massive problem with crocodiles. And it was an incredible show. It's an hourlong

43:17show. I mean, it could be on the Discovery Channel. It could be on uh on HBO. It could be on anything. It just so happens it's on is it on the Outdoorsman's channel or outdoor channel? Outdoor channel. Um and this guy goes to this place and you're seeing these people like half the people in the village have been mauled. I mean people are missing arms. They're missing legs. Their faces have been cut open because they're getting killed by crocodiles left and right. And while he was there filming, a woman got taken by a crocodile. They've set up these sort of uh rudimentary um fences that they put in place to keep the crocodiles out of this area where these people gather water and you know and he's there with these other uh hunters where they're trying to take out once a crocodile apparently starts eating people like you got to kill it because they got a taste

44:04for it. Well, they got a taste for it and they realize how easy it is. Like a wilderbeast can up a crocodile a little bit. You know, you can throw a kick at it and break its jaw. I mean, a crocodile is incredibly tough and durable animal, but a wabbeast is a tough scrap. It's a big animal. You know, like a water buffalo, that's a scrap. It's a big animal. Got to work for that. It might not work out. A person. God, man. We're made out of jell-o. We're jell-o and popsicle sticks. Nothing. Well, and I hunted crocodile. I mean, they are they're tough. Where'd you hunt crocodile? In Africa. Whoa. Yeah, in Tanzania. I wanted to kill one. And so to get within bow range of you have to build a blind and they come up you know their eyes are just above the water and for a bow you they have like two bumps. They got a bump above their eye then one back here. You have to be like right below that or

44:52right in between. You're shooting at about a 50 cent piece size. You have to brain them because if you hit them in the lungs they're in the water and then they sink. You don't get them. So if you're going to hunt a crocodile with the bow it has to be brain shot drop them. So to do that, you have to get them up off the shore, right? And uh could never happen. Built a blind, had the bait up. It was just like so hard to do that. But uh one of the guys I was with killed one with a with a rifle and we ate it. And the meat is amazing. Well, it's supposed to be the highest protein meat you can get. Like alligator and crocodile supposed to be one like ounce per ounce, one of the highest in in protein content, right? Amazing. I mean, it was it was so good, too. But uh yeah, they they are they're smart. They're tough. I don't think they're smart. I think they're stupid as

45:40Well, try to kill one. I just think I just think they know how to not get killed. Like they have like a couple calculations they make in their brain. Is that a person? Yeah. this dude. I'm in the water. Okay. Their their brain is very small. I'll give you that because it's a small target. But if you're trying to hunt them, you're going to think they're smart. If you're going to do a cross word puzzle with them, probably not that smart. They're fascinating though, man. I I want to I want to give a shout out not only to Jim Shocki because he is the ultimate savage. Love Jim but and love Eva but their son Branlin. Yeah, Branlin is the mastermind behind the shooting of that show. Right. He's, you know, as far as filming and the production value and what you see on TV, that's Branlin Shocki. Amazing. And he is I I think he could film like the the the best Hollywood movie you've ever seen. He

46:30could do that. He has that talent and right now he's doing it on the outdoor channel. So that's if nothing else go and watch his work on the on that show Uncharted Uncharted which is amazing. And the new show Carter's War Carter's War is all about this guy who's combating against poaching in Africa and it's all about stopping poachers from killing rhinos and elephants and all these different animals that they're killing in Africa. And uh so it's like not really a hunting show as much as it's just a pure conservation show about a guy who's trying to stop poaching in Africa. And it's it's amazing and gritty and incredibly well documented and shot and just man the the the world of Africa if you want to watch a documentary and I've mentioned this before to people so I'm sorry if you heard it before but um our friend Louis Thuru who's been on the show before who's an amazing documentary

47:22uh documentary guy documentarian uh from the UK did a show on these hunting ranches in Africa which is very different from what you did in Africa. what you did in Africa, you went to the actual wild of Africa, not not a high fence operation, but these hunting ranches that they have set up in Africa, it's such a catch22. It's such a there's so much contradiction going on because on one hand, these animals are trapped in this, it's usually enormous, like several thousand acre area where they're trapped in these areas and they're hunted and people call it a canned hunt and a lot of people have a lot of hate for it. But on the other hand, the animals that they're hunting have never been healthier in higher numbers. And a lot of them were on the verge of extinction until they started implementing these high fence operations. And it goes back to the same thing we were talking about. The money

48:12for conservation, the real money that these people are getting in Africa is coming from hunting. That's what's paying for these animals to survive because so many people are going over there to hunt. Yeah. And people say, "Well, the animals have value." That's the key. And that's a weird concept for people. Yeah. If if an animal doesn't have value, it's probably going to be extinct. Yeah. I mean, that's how that's that's why that's why hunters care. That's why conservationists care because the animal is valuable. Whether it's right, wrong, or indifferent. When there's value, people care. And people have an understanding today that they didn't have this several hundred years ago. Like when people look at the gigantic mounds of buffalo skulls, that's a perfect example why you need conservation. You can't just have people run out and kill these animals that have

48:57value with no consequence or with no monitoring of the the herd populations and the health. That's when you get these horrific mass extinction events like like what happened with the buffalo and the buffalo were basically brought to the verge of extinction. Now they're in healthy populations to the point where you can actually in some places you can hunt wild ones. And the same thing can be say said of elk. The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation has done an amazing job of repopulating areas with elk where they were at one point in time completely eradicated. Well, did you know that when you talk elk, deer, turkey, when you talk there's more of those species now than there's ever been? Is that true with elk? Because I know it is with white-tailed deer. There's more white tailed deer today than when Columbus landed, but I don't know if that's the case with elk because

49:44there's more places where they don't exist. I think like most of the area where like Steve Vernella did a whole show on this recently where most of the area where elk used to be, they're not. But in the areas where they are, they're in healthy populations. I'm Jamie, can you look this up? Yeah, look this up. Look it up about elk populations because I'm almost positive there's more now. See, elk are and probably Reinella would know, so maybe you know if he's been on the show, but elk are um they're plains animals originally. They're pushed into the mountains because the plains, that's where we live. We we live where there's water and in the valleys, that's where humans set up their cities and that's, you know, to get use the rivers and we need water. So, they have been pushed and now they're mountain animals. But now there's elk where there hasn't been

50:32elk before. Pennsylvania, uh, Kentucky, you know, places like that. So, maybe they're maybe they're more places than they than they've ever been, but I'm I'm almost certain there's even more elk. Whatever the case, I don't even think they're more places than they've ever been. I think it's the ones that are there are in healthier populations than they used to be. I think but I think elk are a lot like uh buffalo in that there's at one point in time like hundreds of years ago they were just shooting the out of them. They're they're almost eradicated them. Oh, right. I know. And now now they're they're bounced back and they're healthy everywhere. And where' that money come from? Cameron Haynes. I want to say hunters. Yes. Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. They they've done a fantastic job and and they they've done they've been on the forefront of protecting habitat. So that's I know

51:18they've been over six million acres protected. I think maybe close to 7 million now or maybe even over. I haven't kept track recently, but that's 7 million acres that can never be used for anything else other than habitat for animals. And that's not just elk, that's deer, too. Elk numbers across six states. So how are we looking there? Yeah. See, this is across states, but I think um maybe we could keep looking because see that American elk populations dwindled to less than 100,000 by the early 1990s. So now that's insane. And now in 2009 grew to 1 million 31,000. That's incredible. So the 1990s, that's insane. It was down to 100,000 in the 1990s. Wow. That's terrifying. Like that's that's the verge of extinction in our lifetime. Not just in our lifetime, but in when we were both men. Yeah. So during that time. Wait, that No, that can't be right. Is it? No. The early 19 No, that's got to

52:10be 1890s. Where does it say? Doesn't it see that the last sentence of the first last word of the first paragraph? By 1984, there was an estimated 715,000 elk in North America. No, right above there. The last word of the first paragraph. Fortunately, American less than $100,000 in 100,000 in the early 1990s. It says 199. That can't be 1990s. Is it Is it incorrect? I get what he's saying, but yeah, it might be. It might be a mis I think that's 1890s. But really, yeah, cuz cuz it says um by 1984. By 84 there's 750. So it wouldn't have went all the way back down, right? Yeah. Yeah, that must be a typo. But anyway, so so that's a dumb typo. Who's Who's go what does it say? Go hunt.com. See, I don't necessarily trust a lot of these hunting sites for things like that. Like that's a that's I trust them when they support the point I'm trying to prove. Yeah, but that's a That's a giant Somebody

53:05should email that site. Somebody who's listening, please email that site and let them know. Let's get that fixed. I think it's supposed to be 1890s and I would say it has to be and I would say less than 100,000 and now it's over a million. So that's that's where I get that right the point that I was making. But uh I think before people, you know, colonized the West, I think they were everywhere. I think that's what that's what Reinella was saying. So I think what he was saying was that they're not in 90% of the places they used to be in. Mhm. But the the places they're in, it's like they're thriving. They're thriving. Yeah. And this is this is a really important point when it comes to like we were talking about grizzly bears. Like people say like the grizzly bears are almost extinct in Santa Monica. Yes, you're right. They're almost extinct in California. They they don't live in

53:49California. Not a ton in California. Go to Alaska. They're everywhere. And there's a lot of them, folks. And Alaska, which is twice the size of Texas. It's a goddamn enormous state and they are they are big and there's a lot of them and they decimate herds of caribou elk and they estimate that something around like where John and Jen live in Alberta more than 50% of the moose are killed like at birth right by bears that that's where the bears they follow so a cow moose is pregnant it's going to drop drop drop the calf right and so bears will know that moose is pregnant, know she's going to be dropping a calf. They follow her. As soon as she drops a calf, right there, kill it and eat it. That's how that's how they get her. They just follow the moose around. And sometimes, not even then. A lot of times they're pulling it out of the the cow's body, right? That's

54:40No, it they're brutal. I mean, life in the wild, it's not a fairy tale out there. It's the real deal. It's it's life and death. And so, they're doing they're just going to kill. They're going to kill. That's all they care about. They're going to kill, eat. That's how they survive. So, and there's nothing wrong with that. No, I'm I'm not That's what they do. I'm not gonna judge them, but uh yeah, so where I was I was in um in 16 in Alaska and you can a non-resident can kill two brown bear, which are basically salmonfed grizzly grizzly bear and three black bear. So you can go up there and kill five bear, which I wanted to do. But don't think that I'm bloodthirsty. Think that I I want to help the moose and I like the bear meat. So, um, I didn't do it, but I mean that's Well, you killed three. I killed three. But that that gives you an example of how many how many bears there

55:31are, and this is by biologists who are paid and who have went to school and who have studied the carrying capacity of the land and and how many animals they determine this. This isn't this isn't hunters determining this. This is Alaska fishing game. So, that's where I have a problem with the people who are who think they know better than people who this is their passion. This is what they care about. They have boots on the ground. They're doing it. They're they're setting the bag limits. So, you don't know if you don't live there and and study this and this has been your life mission. You don't know more than them. So, well, they're wildlife biologists. And by the way, if those populations aren't kept at a healthy level, they send in people that they pay to kill these animals. And this is an important factor. And this is what we're talking about with California because

56:13California doesn't have hunting season for mountain lines. So, they have to pay people to go in and kill these mountain lions. They're not just letting the mountain lions live. They're not. if they become a problem, they're taking them out. They just don't want to deal with the backlash. Exactly. That's it. So, they're just avoiding the backlash. And it's not doing it quietly. It's not for the betterment of the animal or or you know, the ecosystem or anything like that. It's just because they don't want to deal with the with the drama. And then you get these people. Well, they were here first. We're where they are. They were here. No, they weren't. First of all, that mountain line's five. Okay. I was here way before that. And they, as in they, come on, stop. This the whole place was covered in ice 10,000 years ago. So, shut up. Yeah. Like, what are you talking about? Who

56:56Who is they? What is this? We're This is the world we're living in right now. It's 2016 and a mountain lion ate this dude's cat. So, what are we going to do? Are we going to just let the mountain lion eat his kid now? Because it would. If you leave that kid on the swing and you go in to get answer your email real quick and you come back, your kid's not gone, you see that tail hop over the fence. That's how it works. That's the wild. barbecue to turn over your veggie burger. You know that kid's gone. Um, Cecil. All right. So, this is the uh the this is the billboard that is your grandpa. No, my grandpa's name was Joseph. Look at this photograph. There's a lion that is hugging a bear and the lion has a tear rolling down his face and the bear has a tear rolling down his face and it says, "Ban, ban the bear hunt. They are all Cecil. Save new jersey bears.com." Oh my god. First of

57:47all, it makes me want to punch somebody in the face. What kind of crazy person living live in some weird bubble made this billboard and spent actual human money on it? Yeah, I don't know this fantasy land. If they haven't seen Okay, they have a giant problem with bears in New Jersey. And this is this is there's facts behind this. First of all, a student from Ruters was killed by a bear right outside of Ruters. See that photograph? student took this photo of a bear just before it killed them. Um, I was talking to a guy who is who knows rangers out there and they're telling people not to hike. They have so many goddamn bear in New Jersey. And why do they have so many bear? Because they didn't have a hunt for them. So these goddamn things they got overpopulated and they have now they're they're entering into residential neighborhoods and these huge look at this

58:37video. bear fight far Rockaway, New Jersey, August 14th of 2014. These bears are duking it out. These are big black bears, like 7 foot bears, 400 plusb bears, and they are going to war in this guy's front lawn. These are huge. I mean, if you were in Alberta and you saw one of these bears coming in, you'd be like, "Woo, boy, that's a trophy bear. That's a giant bear. That's hundreds of pounds of meat for the grill." Yeah. And these bears are in this guy's lawn. I mean, this isn't a this isn't some crazy rural, you know, like Sue Aens living in the middle of the nowhere. No, New Jersey. This thing just knocked over a lamp post and now it's colliding with these uh garbage pales. Watch this. They come, they're fighting over territory, by the way, that's created by garbage. That's what the territory is. They attack people's garbage. And these two bears, they bite each other and then

59:32they duke it out. Look at the size of these bears. I know these are huge, right? Well, that's that's why. Okay, so maybe there was before there was houses. That was perfect bear habitat. But guess what? There's houses now. So that means bear we have to control the bear numbers. That's hunting. Well, here's another part of the problem. These bears weren't here 30 years ago. These bears are overpopulating and moving into these neighborhoods and they're doing it because they know the people live there and it's a steady supply of food. Garbage. Yeah. when you live in Colorado and Colorado is uh they had a big issue with it in this area where I was where the bears would find out that people put their garbage in a certain area and once they eat there once that's it. They have to capture those bears and they either relocate them to uh zoos or or figure something out. But when when I was

60:20there, we went to this uh wildlife rescue place and they had this gigantic grizzly bear that they had gotten because look at the giant chunks of fur they're tearing off of each other. Look at that. That's insane. Yeah, these are huge bear. They're beasts. And now I love this video because a car pulls up and the cars they start taking selfies with the bears. But um they they had to uh relocate this grizzly because it just started tearing apart people's cars. They found it found food in someone's car once. Was it grizzly or black bear? It was it was a brown bear. It's one that they had had. I don't know where they had gotten it, but uh but it happens with black bear. It happens with brown bears. Yeah. No, it's just it's just you know the numbers need to be controlled. That's all there is to it. Doesn't have a large brown bear population, right? Grizzly. Well,

61:03it wouldn't be brown bear, be grizzly. It's brown bear when they're near the coast and grizzly when they're inland. Brown bear, they eat fish, so they're on, you know. Why do they call them different names? Different species, I guess, is what they've determined. You know, they're bigger because they eat fish, so they get all that protein. So they, you know, they can be up 1,400 lb whereas a mountain grizzly, an average mountain grizzly might be 7 foot, 500 lb. You know, I mean, life's tougher up in the mountains. They're eating blueberries. When the blueberries are on, um, you know, eating what they can, but the the bears that eat the fish, they're gorging on fish. They get big. It's just a high protein diet, kind of like what you're on right now. I'm on a high protein diet, folks. If you're like a bird, high fat, too. Yeah, this this diet is kind of for the birds, but not really. Birds

61:52eat grain. I'm I'm enjoying I mean, it's not bad, but I've been on it for two weeks, and I would really like a bowl of pasta right now, but um it's going well. I bet. It's interesting. Yeah. Well, that whole Cecil and the bear hugging thing that it's insane. Yeah. I you know, guarantee a woman made that. How about that? How about that, folks? I'm not I'm done with the sex. I'm done with that part. I don't know that it could be a gay guy. Could be a weak dude. No, just all all sex, gender, all that nonsense aside. We're joking around here, folks. What what that is is just someone who doesn't understand. It's it's it's crazy ignorance and um the the idea that you want to let these things keep and breeding and overpopulating to the point where they're killing college students just outside of Rutgers and they're having these two 400 plus pound bears duke it out on your front lawn.

62:43That's not good, folks. It's not good, you know. So, I'd like to see these people that think that the bears hug and cry each other. Go break that, you know. Come on, guys. Let's settle down. Break it up. Go break those bears up. Since apparently they cry and have emotions, you know, and Cecil has a brother, you know, who's protecting his family, Jericho. Okay, go break up that bear fight. Let me know how that goes. What is this, Samantha? This is from their website, savingjbears.com. Oh, god. So, this is another named, you know, part I I think, you know, we're only facilitating this issue right here with naming the bears and humanizing them because if you watch a Super Bowl, it seemed like every other commercial was something an animal singing or an animal talking or was like I mean, I saw sheep singing like in an ac cappella group. I'm like, what is going on? Well, and so

63:34that's that's where hunters are fighting for our place right now because The kids are seeing that and weak people are seeing that and people that don't get, hey, I want to be part of the food chain are seeing that and they're like humanizing these animals. The sheep don't care about anything but eating. Eating and that's what they do. They stay alive. They're not talking. They're not talking about, oh, here comes a guy. He's bringing us our food. Let's sing. You know, they're not they're not it's not realistic. But that's the that's the p or that's the programming that's getting out there and just me messing with you know the hardwire of these young people coming up or the well a lot of hunters attribute Bambi as being a turning point in the way Americans viewed hunting. Yeah. Because then all of a sudden you're seeing this beautiful animal getting chased down and killed by a hunter.

64:24Yeah. And well we we need to fight we need to fight to change that. I think we are. I mean, we are because uh you know, every time you see a hunter on a show or on a who I don't even know what it's been on. I think South Parks even had something, but it's obviously it's some redneck hillbilly drinking beer, you know, no respect for anything. That's always even in all the Hollywood movies, that's what that's what they that's the image they portray. We need to change that. Yeah. Well, I think we're trying to and I think with podcasts and with conversations on the internet, at least information is getting to people that they weren't getting before. I've had many many people both on Twitter, on my my website forum, uh on Facebook, on all these different forms of social media say, "I had a different perception of hunters." Until you have guys like Cameron Haynes on, Jim Shaki, Steve

65:21Ranella, Steveell, Remy Warren, these really intelligent people that can talk about Tim Bernett who can talk about these things in a way where they explain to you their perspective. They grew up with this. This is how they've lived their life. And if you lived your life in a city, it doesn't make sense to you. It seems alien. You watch Bambi. You see these Yogi talks to Boo Boo. They have conversations. Why would you want to shoot one of them? Until you you you venture into that world, you don't understand it. And we are we're insulated from it because of supermarkets, because of this bizarre world we live in where we've created these artificial structures that we think are normal. These cities and these these this method of acquiring food where you just run a piece of plastic through a machine and you walk away with all this food. It's it's not healthy.

66:11No, it's not. It's not It's like if you could have sex um with a a faceless person where you didn't even get to see their face. Like all you saw was like their body from the shoulder down and that's what you had sex with and you you had a kid with that person. You didn't even know that kid and you walk away. But I got my needs met. I mean almost that's almost what's going on. It is. It's almost what's going on when you're acquiring food without ever growing it, without planting that seed. And and I'm not saying you should plant all your food. And I'm not saying you should only hunt if you're going to eat meat. But what I'm saying is if you could do it, it would bring you a little closer to understanding where that food comes from. And it'll give you just a a broader view of this world we live in and what you're doing by consuming food. You are consuming whether you're

66:57consuming salad. And here's another thing, vegans, I I put this up the other day. I was with a bunch of people where I I trolled people were sending me all this vegan stuff. So, I just started trolling them by sending them all these scientific studies about plants and plant intelligence, which is a new form of study or it's a it's a new field of study where they're finding out more and more each day that plants can do calculations, that they respond to being eaten, that they have uh they have different mechanisms to discourage predation. That's where poison plants come from. They're communicating with each other in some sort of strange way that when one tree is getting chopped down, it's sending signals to other trees. It's well, it's in a in its own way, in some sort of a weird way. You're eating life. If you're eating a plant, you're eating life. If you say that it's

67:50okay to eat vegetable life, but it's not okay to eat fish. If you say it's okay to eat fish, but it's not okay to eat animals. If you you what you're doing is you're making these bizarre moral judgments, right? And they're they're based on convenience and they're a lot of them are based on ignorance. And a lot of them they don't hold up when you start looking at things objectively. No. And people say to you like, "Why don't you eat your dog?" Well, I don't want to eat my dog. Okay. Jesus Christ. But my dog is a pet. Okay. My dog was raised from the time it was a baby. I've had it since it was young. I'm not going to eat it. Right. But if someone does hunt a wild dog and eat it and it's between that wild dog eating them and them eating that wild dog, you know, that's an unfortunate situation. Yeah. But you got to eat that dog. Yeah. Manny Pacquiao, his parents, they ate their

68:38dog when they were when when he was starving when they were a kid. It was like a very traumatic moment for him where his family was so they were starving. They were so poor. They had to eat their pet dog. Yeah. Well, and then the people would say, "Well, you're not starving. Why are you killing animals?" Right. for us cuz I don't want to starve. That's a good point. What the be what I like what I like the most we talked about changing the stereotype is I like you know working as we know work out all the time. I like when people ask me why are you working out so hard for bow hunting and this is like that that gives the craziest look. Yeah. You know but it's been the same answer for me for years is because I want to be the best in the mountains and I think that the best you can be. The best I can be. Yeah. I understood that way more after I went with you, you know, after I went uh

69:23honey with you in Colorado. I get it. I get it more because you're in better cardiovascular shape than me and I'm in good shape. You take the average person, I'm in better shape than the average person, but I'm not in better shape than you. You're running ahead of me. I'm like, this I can't catch him. You know, it's like there's a certain pace that you can keep because you run mountains all the time that I'm just not capable of keeping right now. It made me up my cardio in a big time big time way. When I came back from that hunt, the first thing I started doing is really upping my cardio. Well, and I, you know, so we had a real, you know, real life example of that. What I like as much as that, I mean, no, not as much as that because I love being with somebody who's successful and who experiences a hunt and I'm able to share in that and and that's a whole another thing. It's like

70:08I didn't I didn't kill anything, but I was part of your hunt and that meant as much to me as as me getting my animal. So, I mean, we have the whole camaraderie and and you know, it's not every man for himself. It's we're out there. We're working together. We're we we want to be successful and harvest meat and take meat home to our families. But what I like is people who are inspired. They're not with me, but they see the training and they're inspired to up their game. like maybe they won't run a 200 mile race or run 10 miles a day or do any of this, but maybe they'll run one mile, you know, and maybe it's make my whole thing is if you're not making if you're not making a positive impact, what's your point? What are you doing? I want to make a positive impact on people and that's why I love social media and sharing what I do and hopefully it can inspire others to do more and that's

70:58that's my motivation daily. Well, there's a great this is a there's a great time for that and it's a it's a there's a great venue or a great uh vehicle through social media that didn't exist before to inspire people and I am constantly inspired by it you know and some people get upset like oh you posting pictures of you working out like showing off like I like when I read the rocks Instagram okay I do I think 40 million other people do also that guy is up every morning if he's got to work at 7 he's up at 4:00 and he's in the gym and it'll show a photo of his alarm clock going off and it'll show a photo of him in the gym making crazy faces where he's full to sweat and it makes me realize I'm a lazy and it makes me want to get up and work out. Exactly. You know, I mean that's just there's a community. People want to be inspired. I think they definitely do.

71:49I know I do. And I know that you've created a community. Instagram page in a lot of ways and I want to say it's your community but you have spawned through your Instagram page a lot of inspirational communities as well. I've looked at these other people's pages that follow you and I'll see like the hashtag keep hammering and they're out doing things and I see people respond to their posts. You know, I saw this and it made me go to the gym and I wasn't going to. So, thank you for that. And it it branches off. It feeds into everybody and it's positive. It's positive for all of us. And at the end of the day, look, you know, you can make all your angry videos and you can make all your angry posts and on this and on that and and and get angry about people you don't even meet, but what is the what is the message that you're putting out? This angry shitty message that

72:37you're putting out this angry negative thing like who who's getting are you pumping yourself up? Are you st you're standing on a moral high ground and espousing your your your superiority to the world? Like what are you doing? What are you doing? Are you broadcasting that? And you know who's inspired by that? Nobody. Well, some people might be to also be Like this guy's a good I want to be a too. I know. I never hear I guess I don't hang around those people cuz I never hear that. Well, you don't see them. I'll tell you what, when you know, like if you meet one of those people in real life, I guarantee you the conversation wouldn't be like it is in these one-sided debates or these one-sided broadcasts. If someone makes a blog, this angry shitty blog, like have a conversation with that person. It's like tweets and blogs like especially if they're negative. this

73:20it's a very ineffective form of communication and negative videos they're very ineffective because th this is not a real conversation like the way people are supposed to communicate is like you and I talking to each other you know even podcast in a lot of ways it's one of the things why people get angry cuz you're there's someone listening to this right now like you I got something to say and I get it I understand but don't get mad at me if if you were here we would talk but you're not here should we take a few calls oh No, we we don't do callins. Thank God. No, it's too hard. The you know the beautiful thing about the internet is everybody has a voice. The beautiful thing about the internet is everybody question and you got my number. Text me. So that'll that'll eliminate a lot of people. You you know you can you can choose what message you put out there. You can you can choose

74:08how you experience life. You can choose like how you how you interact with people. And some people I think they're you know this is a new world we're living in. This world of social media. this world where anybody can start a blog or anybody can, you know, start putting things up on Twitter or Facebook or whatever. It's a new world and we got to learn how to navigate it better. Well, you know, people, like you said, people can choose. I can choose to I put up positive. Yeah. You don't think I have negative things happen in my life? Of course. Yeah. I could put up negative probably as much as positive. I'm overcoming all sorts of hurdles all the time. But what's the point? I'm like I said, I want to be positive. I want to inspire people and you know at the show in in Utah this weekend. Um I was amazed at the number of people that waited a long time to come up and share their

75:00story. Share their story about losing weight or the success they've had or the or the impact as a a hunter a bow hunter who how would a bow hunter make that much of an impact? I have no idea. But it happened and that I mean if if you ever wonder you know what's your calling in life cuz I've wondered what am I what am I doing you know when I was young what's what where am I going what's going to happen well weekends like this weekend where I saw all those people and talked to all those people and had that interaction that really drives home I'm doing what I'm meant to do you know and that's h making a positive impact and I mean that's through bow hunting I mean that's it that's what I do that's how I met you Yeah. I mean, I met you through bow hunting and social media. I mean, your your positive message reached me and we talked about it on the Gritty Bowman podcast, which we we just did a

75:52we dropped in and did a podcast, an impromptu podcast with these guys. Uh they call themselves the the Gritty Bowman. And uh it's a good podcast, but good bow hunting podcast. And we sat in and we talked about it. Like I was interested in hunting for a long time before I met Steve Ranilla. And then when um I was going on different websites and looking at different YouTube videos, I saw your stuff and I'm like, "Well, okay. Well, here's this guy that's really into fitness. He's into fitness and preparing himself to be what you call the ultimate predator, to be your best at what you like to do, which is bow hunting." I'm like, "Well, this is kind of crazy." So then I started watching your videos. I'm like, "What a positive dude. Look at this guy. He's working out. He's giving people great advice. He's telling people like how to use proper technique with archery and

76:38how to have a good attitude about this and how it's all good and you're like it's a beautiful day. We're out here and we're enjoying the, you know, the beautiful weather. We're out here practicing. This is what we do every day. And I was like, this is inspirational and this is positive and and through you, you meet me. I use my the what I've created this vehicle of social media and and podcasting to broadcast it more and then all these new positive branches spread out from that. It's awesome. It's amazing. Yeah, I love it. It's It's so much better than on people. It's so much better than negativity. And like I said, when I had these guys from Cowspiracy and these guys are vegans, they're vegans who made a documentary about veganism and the powerful uh message that they had about the the antifactory farming message. I had a great conversation with them and I

77:24believe I truly believe that most of these people that are making angry posts on Twitter or angry videos if I sat down with them and had conversations with them they'd be positive conversations whether we agree or disagree I have a very well thoughtout point I would imagine they have a very well thoughtout point too where they're coming from is not a bad thing it's just this something is lost in this the the the the broadcasting of this message. And I think that's a real problem that we're all sort of navigating in this world is that somehow or another the messages that get the most reaction are a lot of times the negative ones. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Well, on uh in regard to hunting, why do you like archery? Do you like archery better than rifle hunting? Definitely. 100%. Why is it more challenging? It's more in it's there's there's that the book called Zen

78:17and the Art of Archery. Yeah. Um, there's a a book that I need to read. Everybody tells me I need to read this book. But there's something about archery itself, like uh today when we're practicing shooting at that rubber elk. Yeah. There's something about the there is a there's a moment when you're at full draw and you're about to release that arrow where everything is still, everything is calm, and you're not thinking about anything else other than releasing the perfect arrow because it requires so much concentration and so much focus. And I it was completely unexpected to me when I first started practicing archery. I thought it was going to be like like shooting a rifle requires a lot of focus. It requires trigger discipline. You have to like steady the gun on a rest. You have to like, you know, really stay still and squeeze that trigger. And there's

79:10problems with that. You know, you get the shakes. You know, you get nerves. And even at a target range, you you know the the gun's going to make that kick and so you you get a little flinchy. It's nothing like archery. Archery is that times 100. It's it requires there's no resting. There's no rifle rest, right? You know, you have to hold your arm steady and the amount of movement that you make because the arrow is only going at the most 300 feet a second, 350 if you got some super bow and a light arrow. The difference between that and a rifle is 3,000 ft a second. Yeah. So any movement translates to a giant amount of movement at the end where the arrow hits. Yeah. And it's just as a discipline, it's it's cleansing. Mhm. Like for me, I love after a long day, I do a lot of man. I got a lot of things going on in my mind, you know? I have between comedy and podcasting and

80:04the UFC and family and business And there's like so much going on. There's so many different things in my mind that for me what archery is is like is this like ultimate meditation ultimate focus point where I draw back and I see that target and then I release that arrow and then when that when that arrow goes right into that bullseye like we were shooting that rubber elk today and when you nail one it gets right in that small circle it's a beautiful satisfying feeling. It is. It's that that moment that in the impact and seeing where it hit. I mean, and then so that's just the process of it. But then when that happens cuz why why are we doing that? We're doing that to prepare for the hunt. Yeah. So when all that work pays off on the hunt, it's just uh you know, I don't I don't know how, you know, I see some videos and I see people running around and tackling

81:04each other and doing all that. I never feel like that. I always feel like um I feel I guess blessed or thankful for the moment and mostly thankful that I made something that's very difficult happen you know I achieved that goal and it's uh I don't know it's it's so powerful and I just that's what I you know I like people to to shoot a bow because as you said shooting a bow is is centering and and zen-like I guess if I even know what zen means I don't even know if I do But it is relaxing. It is requires amazing focus. Um, so that's a good start. But when you can block everything out, cuz you say you have to block everything out to make a good shot on that target on the foam rubber, the the Reinhardt elk today. Well, on an animal when the animal's moving, there's different factors that at you know in line he's bugling your heart's going a million miles an hour and then when you can do

82:02it there and then where you take that up another level is hunting the mountains like if you're sheep hunting and then you have it's such a physical and then it could be dangerous also. So you have so many things and when that happens on something like a sheep in the sheep mountains that is to me life-changing. I mean experiences like that have made me who I am. And people say you know bow hunting has made you who Yeah. I mean because coming through in crunch time like that is more pressure and more accomplishment than anything I'll I'll ever do in normal life because it's just that difficult. Well, through difficult things, our character gets challenged. Our our our will and our focus get tested. And through those tests and through this very difficult task, you learn more about yourself, right? You learn more about your ability. You learn more about your faults. You you learn

83:03about your weaknesses. You learn about your strengths. And you learn how to shore up those weaknesses and get stronger. And that's why people who have never experienced it don't understand your dedication to fitness, don't understand your dedication to making sure you're in the best possible shape you can be. Also, that your your archery practice is at the best it can be. So that when that moment of truth arises, you can steady your nerves. You can keep it all together and you can execute. And that execution that that is an insanely difficult task that very few people have to ever do anything in life that's remotely as difficult as shoot an arrow at an elk that's 50 yards away and watch that arrow sink right into the vitals and realize that you've done it and realize that now you have enough meat for a year for your family with one animal with one animal. And are we

83:50quantifying life? I mean, are we saying that, you know, this that all animals are worth something? That Well, if that's the case, every pasta bowl that you eat, you eat a bowl of pasta, that pasta comes from grain. That grain most likely was chopped from a field, from a combine that is 100 yards long, that it's indiscriminate, and it's running over everything, as we were talking about, running over mice and rabbits and fawns and ground nesting birds and anything else that might be in its path. And there's a lot of death involved in that. So every bowl of pasta that you eat, even though you feel like you're completely immune or completely um free of any responsibility of death, it's not true. But one elk with one arrow feeds you for a year. A year, right? There's I have two commercial freezers in the back. They're filled with meat. I gave Gary Clark, the musician, the other

84:39day. I gave him two pounds of elk. I'm like, "Take this home and cook it." Bill Burr the other day sent he sent me this text message that he made elk chili. I gave him some elk. I give people meat. I love it. Love it. Love it. Yeah. My friend uh uh Chris Ryan sent me this photo or Duncan actually sent Chris Ryan did too, but Duncan sent me this photograph of his his girlfriend made meatballs, elk meatballs, and they were sitting there eating with their friends. They had a friend over for dinner with some meat from an animal that was that I shot with a bow and arrow. I'm giving it to him. It's it's it's fantastic. It's a beautiful warm feeling and it connects you in some weird primal way that we're immune to. We're not getting it anymore. We're not getting it. And for me, people ask why because I've always been drawn to to wild places. Um big wild places.

85:27And people asked, "How did that start for me?" How that started was I I didn't come from anything. I didn't have I didn't have anything. I was just a guy who couldn't even afford an elk license for a few, you know, it was $25. I couldn't afford it. But so I felt like um I don't know. I I didn't feel special in any way. I didn't feel like I had any advantage over anybody. I felt lower class essentially. But in the wilderness when I went, there could be the richest guy in the world. There could be the most powerful businessman. But if he was there and I was there, all of a sudden the playing field was equal. And if I'm in better shape than him, I'm above him in the mountains. I can be somebody. I can be I can be special. And that's how I prepare and that's why I liked it back there is I didn't have to conform to society's well this guy is an A-lister you are no nothing you know what I mean

86:23that's what was always drawn me to that because it was a level playing field for me and if I came in more of like a beast than somebody else all of a sudden I was the guy back there that's that's what I did and it was just like I didn't have anything and I and I thought this is the only way I'm going to be I achieve my dreams you know is get get to where I can be in control. Well, it gives you an understanding of that environment that this environment really doesn't care that you make six figures. It doesn't care that you drive a BMW. It doesn't care that you have a nice house. It doesn't care. It doesn't care. This is there's in a lot of ways like I gravitate towards absolutes. I that's one of the reasons why I like martial arts. It's one of the reasons I like pool. Like if that ball drops in the hole, it's cuz you made it drop in the hole. If it if you miss, you miss. And

87:10there's no if ends or buts about it. It's an absolute thing. And I think in a lot of ways, hunting is is is similar in that way. Like it doesn't care. Like if you're playing pool and you're a millionaire and you're playing against a guy with $2 in his bank, it doesn't the balls don't know this. They don't care. And it's the same in the woods. When you are out there and you're in that environment, that is an absolute environment. and absolute also in the fact that if you zigg when you should have zagged and you run across a sa grizzly in her cubs and she just decides today your day it it doesn't they don't give a if you you you host the UFC that bear doesn't give a if you know you uh you know you're the CEO of your company and you're out there it doesn't care no the wilderness is its own world it has its own rules unforgiving it's unforgiving and it's

87:57absolute and like that arrow hitting the artery or hitting the the vitals of of an elk. Like if you don't if it doesn't hit, it doesn't hit. I mean, it's it's got to go where it's supposed to go or it or you up, you know, and there there's uh you know, that is real. I mean, it's that's not just talk. It's not talk where you zig where you should have zagged. Um and you know, Royy's story is a perfect example of that. Who's your friend? Explain who Roy is. Um, Roy is he's who got me started in bow hunting and he is the toughest man I've ever met. I've shared more experiences with Roy in the mountains, these life-defining type experiences that that we've talked about. And you know, the the bond we've created together has been over a handful of experiences, you know, and you you realize when you're out of your comfort zone like that and when you're both so

88:51committed to a pursuit, those bonds form quickly, you know, and so we've formed a strong bond over a handful of experiences over a couple years. Well, Roy and I um you know, we went to high school together. We started bow hunting as you know I think 18 19 years old and had hundreds of experiences lifech changing life defining experiences together over the years. So our bond naturally was like brothers and um you know he he was when everybody doubted me when I was growing up and doubted my dream of ever becoming anything he never did. He was always he was always the guy that believed in me. Well, this year up sheep hunting. Um he was up sheep hunting where we had sheep hunted before together and I killed a ram and it was, you know, it's a it's a tough, difficult, dangerous hunt. And he uh but he's more prepared or he was more prepared for hunts like that than

89:51anybody in the world. He's done it he's done it as much as anyone that I know and been successful. I think he's killed had killed nine rams and he one misstep he fell and died. Um prime of his life essentially 49 years old. Um just you know a a father, husband, three kids, somebody who even the toughest Alaska hunters looked up to. One step gone. And that's, you know, that's so it's not just talk when you say zigg you should have zag. There's risk. But that's I mean if you're going to it it just puts everything in perspective. That's the allure to it because I can speak for Roy and I cuz I know we we always have known about the risk. That was part of the draw is we wanted to go where nobody else wanted to go or do things that nobody else wanted to do. That was the only thing that made us different. And it goes back that made us different. That's and it goes back to,

90:55you know, the level the playing field. Well, we felt like, well, if we would go and do the hardest hunts and the toughest conditions, nobody else would want to do that, but we would. All of a sudden, we were calling the shots. We don't call the shots. The mountain calls the shots. And on that that hunt, the mountain won. Roy fell and he died. And it's uh he fell 700 feet, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's uh you know that where he fell just tough unforgiving sheep country and uh you know once once you start going there you're not going to stop and um it's one of the most dangerous hunts sheep. Yeah. Yeah. It's uh you know on that hunt specifically they give a 100 tags and a lot of times there's just one sheep killed. It's that difficult and and I think 40% of the people never even go because of the weather, because of the conditions, because it's so hard. So, they draw the

91:54tag and don't even get up the hill. Well, wasn't that that was the case with you when you went up there grizzly hunting. You were supposed to go sheep hunting as well, right? Yeah. Well, no, it was moose hunting. Moose hunting. We were going to do a moose sheep combo, but there's so much snow we couldn't even get to sheep country. And uh that was the plan. We were going to go sheep hunting. And that was with Roy. That was with Roy, right? So, we had, you know, an amazing moose hunt together and I killed a nice big bull. Um, we just had just another epic adventure. Something, you know, a hunt that maybe a handful of people would want to do because we were so far back, you know, miles back and had to haul a moose out over the mountain in the snow. Uh, very, very, very difficult hunt. But the ones it was just it defi it was perfect because it was our last hunt together. He died two

92:45weeks later and that hunt encapsulated everything about us. It was just hard. It was miserable and it was rewarding and and you know we achieved success where not very many people would have and we did it together and uh yeah I mean then two weeks later was his sheep hunt and there's an iconic photo that I think was forever going to define you from that hunt with you with a big cut in your face and blood streaming down your face and you sent it to me while you were out there. Yeah. You were you're saying we haven't we haven't got one yet. Yeah, we're out here hustling and uh there's this photo of you looking as with blood coming out your face, snow in the background. Yeah. And I'm like, uh yeah, that's that's Cameron Haynes. It is because and and Roy and I always would we would always say we can make an easy hunt hard because we wanted it to be hard. Well, you went into an area

93:44where very few people were having success and even with rifles, you were going deep deep into this area. It was a rifle area. So, that means you a bow hunter had a different size of animal that was legal. A if you're hunting with a So, if you're hunting this area, it was a rifle area. Had to be a little bigger. So, it had to be 50 inches wide, but it had to have four brow tines, which so you're you're you're making it harder. So, we were there in the in the rifle area and we got it done. And it was it was the hunt that it was a hunt that that's what we love. We loved hard. We just loved the test. Now, when you go out there, does a bow hunter have different standards than a rifle hunter? Like, if you were there with a rifle, would you have to have shot a bigger bull? No, that was I I You went to the bigger area. I went to the bigger area. So, in in the bow area, it only has to

94:31have three boutines. The moose. In the rifle area, it had to have four. So, I had to find one with four. Well, mine had five on one side, four on the other. So, it was good. And it was over 50 inches wide. So, I it was legal all the way around. But if I would have just focused on the bow area, it could have been a lesser bull in regard to brow tine. But uh and they do this to make sure again that the mature animals are harvested so that the younger animals can breed. And so this is all calculated by wildlife biologists to make sure that they have healthy populations of these animals. Yeah. Just that that you know mature bull has served his purpose so to speak. He's bred the animals over the years. He's probably on the decline. So it's a perfect time to take him out. So that's not what people, you know, people associate it almost instantly with, oh, you're trophy hunting, you know,

95:14like, oh, you just want a bigger rack, like they do that specifically because it's for the health of the population of these animals. Yeah. I mean, we, you know, we we care about the animals we care about and do like to kill a big animal, but there's it's dual purpose. We we want to kill a big animal because it's uh it's awesome. It's hard. It's hard to kill. Smart. an older mature animal, especially with the bow. So, that's hard to do. And then also on the dual purpose side is it helps the the health of the herd. So, we're, you know, we're doing the best we can, but most of all, you know, when you go back to uh to bow hunting in general, it's just for me, it's just the test. The ultimate test is something that's very hard and that's the draw. Yeah. And that that hunt also really exemplifies why your hard work is so important. First of all, you shot the moose at 90

96:09yards, which is an incred I mean, we were shooting today at 45 yards and as far as I never said how far I shot that moose. I just told people. Sorry. Well, listen, if I mean, you know, Tim Gillingham, we're talking about on the Gritty Bowman podcast, who is a world champion archer who was talking about routinely shooting animals over a 100 yards, and that he he does this because he's a world champion archer, and he he can do that. When you're shooting a moose, the distance that you can shoot a moose versus a guy like me, who, by the way, I still shoot every day, but I just I can't do that. I'm not It's not an ethical distance for me, but it is for you. And to have to haul that animal out. Sorry to blow up your spot about 90 yards. I thought you already told people, but was a perfect shot, right? I mean, and but that's a that's a funny area with with uh shooting something

96:56like a rifle shot at 90. First mu deer, that mu deer right there to your left, that was 200 yards. That's the first time I ever pulled a trigger on anything. Yeah. Anything. Right. And I And that was 200. But with a rifle, that's normal. You get you get a rest with a rifle. You just, you know, you don't prone. I was lying on my stomach. The whole thing was perfect. Yeah. I mean, the rifle is a tool. You just let it perform. It's going to work. Yeah. You know, the bow hunt with a bow, it's just a lot of a lot of variables. So, all of your preparation, the shooting every day for years and decades really. And then also your physical fitness to be able to pack out. I mean, a moose is how much pounds did that thing weigh? We had about 600 lb of meat. That's just the meat. Just the meat. I mean, how much did the animal weigh? Oh. I don't know over I mean 1,200 lb

97:46probably 1,000 I don't know it's an enormous enormous animal until you see one like and you're there physically next to it you don't realize no it took us hours to break you know I killed it um it was in the evening and uh Roy and I we had cameramen there but they ended up just they filmed a little bit of the the process of breaking it down then they headed back to the spike camp and uh Roy and I stayed there which we like just doing it by ourselves back there together singing just singing. He he would always sing. I don't know really. Uh what kind of stuff did he sing? You know, country girl shake it up for me. A little Luke Bryan, maybe. Little little uh Lady Gaga, I think. Oh god. Yeah, he he was uh wellversed a terrible singer, but it was it's just what we did, right? you know, well, it was also just part of the part of the deal. You were happy. Oh, successful hunt. It was,

98:48you know, God, you know, I'm just gonna I'm gonna miss those times with him because uh it's just hard knowing the the journey we'd been through together. That's why it's so appreciated. And you know who else? You know, there's another example. we hunted this year and hunted the the brown bear together and uh he he uh I killed this bear. The SA went over and was attacking the corpse of the bear, but the bear died. She didn't know what was going on. She smelled blood just went crazy. The these brown bear are they're big predators and something goes in their head. She going to have an issue. So she heard when I shot the boar, it made a noise. It sort of ran towards her. She stood up, didn't know what was going on, knew he had made this noise. So, she ran towards where he was. Well, as soon as she hit his path, she smelled blood from where my arrow passed

99:52through him. So, she tracked him by the blood, just basically running, smelling blood, blood, blood. She got to him and he had died already. She started attacking him. You know, this is just what they do. These are, you know, these aren't crying, hugging bear. And uh so she's going and I'm I'm with Roy and I'm like I said, "She's tearing up my bear." And I'm like, "Get off my bear." And I'm yelling to her. I'm like, you know, and so I tell Roy I'm like I said, "We got to get her out." I said, "Shoot out there." So he shoots. Boom. And she's like, "No, didn't even, you know, he didn't shoot at her. He just was making a noise. Just a scare. Nothing." And I'm like, "Hey, get off that bear." And she looked up and then she like saw us. All of a sudden, here she comes sprinting. And it was like what is going on? And uh she's like a blood frenzy. Yeah. Just it

100:39was so much going on at one time and then it got something triggered in her head and she was just crazy. So here she comes and I killed my bears in a creek. She got to the creek and Roy says he says if she doesn't stop I'm going to have to shoot her. And I said yeah. So she comes up to our side of the creek and I have an arrow knocked and you know I don't know what I'm gonna do with an arrow but it's I don't have I never pack a gun so I just had my bow and he had he had the gun. She stands up at 20 yards away and we're we're just standing there and it's a and it's a standoff and so we think well she stood up she's going to see what's going on. Um there's three of us standing there and she's going to say okay I'm drop down and leave. So, we're like, "Get out of here." And uh she drops down beline right towards us, charging. And so, Roy, boom. And he uh

101:33he drops her, you know, one shot made a good shot. He hit like missed her head, but hit like right here and just folded her right there. And it was what what the what stands out for me is that um you know we were I we were never worried about our lives were at stake. We're never worried about any you know like maybe a typical reaction would be like oh my god we could have died or something like that. I I was just like I cussed because I'm like I was mad she did that and required Roy to act, you know. So, I was just I cussed and he's like he's like, "Dude, I had to." And uh so, we weren't worried about ourselves. We were just we didn't want to have to kill another bear. And we we weren't nervous about the situation. And I'm like I said, I know. And it was like, where else am I going to have somebody that's on that same page with me that that's calm in that situation and not

102:31see their life flash before their eyes? Just do what you have to do to to stop the risk. That's never going to happen. I'm never going to have somebody like that in my life again. And I think about we were, you know, we we knew the risk were involved in everything that we did and we embraced it and we were fine with it and it and it didn't consume us or anything. And that's that's what I'm going to miss is having somebody so on my same page that I can trust like that. You know, Roy was the best. Yeah. You would have to have someone who's experienced that as many times as Roy has had where it was he knew exactly what he had to do in that moment. Yeah, he did. And he and it's people know what they have to do. It's it's executing that is what's hard, you know, and uh so knowing what it takes, not panicking, being in control, and then getting the job done with one shot. Very rare. And

103:26he was So Roy in those situations was as you I don't know everybody. I haven't been with everybody, but I would say he's as good as anybody that that I know of, you know. And uh um that's why, you know, when he fell and I got the news that he fell and died, I mean, I could I could believe it, I guess, but I was mad. And I'm still mad. Um, and I know everything happens for a reason and I know, you know, he has he has a lot of faith and I know, you know, we want to think everything's going to be okay and we'll see each other again. I know all that, but it still makes me mad. Um because, you know, we missed we missed out on a lot of experiences we'd still love to have and we talked about and we were just like we had these big big goals and big dreams and I'm mad that that's gone. So, it's completely it's not it's not just understandable. It's um it's something

104:36that very few people could probably relate to the kind of intimate friendship that you would have with someone who's experienced those kind of hunts that's been in the in the wilderness that's done like that moose hunt that you were talking about when you guys were deep deep in in the in the wilderness like that. It's it's something that very few people will ever very few people will ever experience that that kind of danger, that kind of intimate moment in the wilderness, just that connection to the wild that you guys had together, right? And so the whole point I guess with all that is it's people say, "Well, you just you're murderous or you want to kill." such a small part of what me and Roy experienced together. The kills were I mean they were we achieved our goal. That was it. It was the journey. It was the brotherhood. It was you know growing up. And that's what that's what hunting

105:39is. It's not just you're out killing. It's you're experiencing nature at its most brutal or its most rewarding or the entire gamut. And when when that makes you who you are, um it's powerful. And that's, you know, that's what hunting was to us. Yeah. There's a lot of people that are listening to this, I'm sure, that are like, well, you know, why is that? Why should you feel any worse for your friend than we should for the animals that you killed? M you know there's a lot of people that they sort of connect animals almost with people in a way or maybe even better than people in a way maybe this is and I think that's a a good part of this disconnect that we're talking about these people that that don't experience these these moments they don't they don't know anybody like that they don't have a a friendship with someone like Roy they don't they haven't

106:34had these experiences like you did with him yeah it's u I Oh, you you sent me the text. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but you sent me the text when when he died and uh I knew, you know, I knew that that had to be just devastating to it still is. Um yeah, I I mean I I don't think there's uh there's very few men like Roy. Uh he was he was uh capable. Um he was uh just somebody you could count on. Anybody could count on and um it's just you know tough to replace. Well, it's very easy to get by in this world today. It's very easy to get by without being that kind of a person. It's very difficult to become that kind of a person to always make the right decisions to always push ahead to always always show character to always be someone that you can count on is hard. Yeah. It's uh society today is e too easy I believe. And so um that's why I think that's kind of the draw for me to

107:43pushing myself the way I do physically, mentally. I don't I don't like if something's easy, I don't I'm not attracted to it. I I want to I want to be hard. I want it to be hard. I want it to be difficult. And um because society makes us weak. It makes us feel entitled. Um and I don't like it. Um, I I don't, you know, every day I feel like unless I'm beat down or tired or whatever, I don't feel like I I achieved what I needed to achieve that day. And it's just, you know, I I can't expect anybody else to feel like that. That's just me. Everybody else is motivated motivated by different things, have different priorities. I'm just for me and uh it's you know and so finding somebody who of the same mindset as me can be tough. It's very rare. It's it's hard for people to gravitate towards challenge. But through challenge you get the greatest reward because through

108:44staying in bed like there's there's that the call of the bed is strong. the warm bed and just, oh, let me just hit snooze in this alarm clock and get nine more minutes or let me just shut it off and call in sick to work. Let me just not do what I'm supposed to do. Let me just sleep. And there was an article uh that I posted recently where they were talking about um the power that dopamine has and dopamine and memories. And it's one of the reasons why people have such a hard time kicking bad habits is because we gravitate towards these like reward experiences that we have in our head. The reward of eating shitty food or of drinking too much or it's your your mind sort of carves these paths towards these uh re rewarding like uh almost self-destructive behaviors because those they give you dopamine whether it's eating shitty food or whatever. But it's the rare person whose mind gravitates

109:40towards the reward of accomplishment. The reward of pushing yourself through a very very difficult circumstance, very difficult challenge to get to that feeling of accomplishment like you get, I'm sure, when you run a marathon or like you get when you get to the top of the mountain when you're pushing when you don't want to and you get to it and you did it and you know that you overcome this weakness inside of you that wants you to quit, right? that everybody experiences at some point in their life. And it's a matter of how you react to that experience and how you react to that that pull. The pull towards the bed is strong. The pull towards weakness is strong because it's so easy to do. It's so easy to quit. It's easy to quit. It is. See it all the time. It's one reason why I mean it seems minor, but you know when I get up at 4:00 or 5 in the morning, I have to

110:27be at work at seven. But when I get up early to do my fasted cardio runs, um, and I'm out and so I have no fuel. I'm out there, there's nobody out at four or five in the morning and I'm running through the neighborhoods by my house. All the lights are off. I just envision people in there comfortable sleeping. And I feel like, you know, it's it's I feel I feel the best then. When I, you know, it's like when I run the mountain when it's sunny. I don't feel as good as when I run it when it's pouring rain because it's easy to go out and do it when it's sunny. If I run, you know, on a weekend in the middle of the day, lots of people out there. I don't feel that accomplished when I do it at 4 or 5 in the morning when nobody's out there and and it's just like that in my head and I my head might not be normal, but I I just love, you know, and people always say, "Well, you know, all that running,

111:22you're you're going to be in a wheelchair by the time you're 60." And I'm like, who's guaranteed to live to 60? I mean, I might die tomorrow, you know? So, what am I supposed to do? Save myself for what? I I I want to, you know, know that I gave all I have every day cuz tomorrow's not guaranteed. So, I mean, I just don't get I have a hard time with that that mindset of the the the moderation mindset. Those people that are saying that they're peering through the curtains while you're running by their house. I I think they're asleep. He's gonna he's going to wind up in a wheelchair. Not me. I'm here farting. Yeah. I I don't know. I mean, it's uh you know, so some people some people criticize and maybe maybe I will be on a wheelchair, but I'll know that I lived as hard as I could live and and pushed as hard as I could when I could do it. I'm not going to regret it.

112:17Yeah. The people that try to knock someone down for working hard and overcoming extreme obstacles, what they're doing is they're responding to their own insecurity. I mean, there's logical things. There's people that's, you know, there's there's people that look at certain types of extreme sports where, you know, there was that uh BMX guy, what's his name? Dave Meera who just committed suicide. Horrible, horrible tragedy. You know, husband, father, the whole deal. Um, I got to think it's connected to head trauma. And um, I think you're talking about a completely different thing when you're talking about head trauma because you know these poor guys that do these extreme sports, they wind up getting really banged up and that causes some pretty severe depression. So I think in circumstances like that, you I think you're talking about a kind of a different animal, but people will

113:07criticize people who take chances in life. People will criticize people who work hard, you know, like why do you have to lift weights? Why do you like there was an article that we had talked about that some had written in some bow hunting magazine about you? No, it was online. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever it was, you know, he's talking about you like why does, you know, he have to, you know, you don't have to lift weights like this guy. You don't have to want this is ridiculous. Well, guess what? Yeah, you do. If you want to do what you can do, you have to. Yeah. I mean, and what he's doing by writing that is looking at someone who works harder than him, accomplishes more than him, and he's trying to chop you down. And that's crabs in a bucket, man. That's what people do. You ever see crabs in a bucket, if you don't know what I'm talking about, folks? If you see crabs

113:49in a bucket, they never get out of that bucket. Because if they work together, one crab could stand on another crab and the other crab grab on the top and then they could figure out a way to push that bucket over and they could all get out. But nope, what happens is one crab tries to get to the top and the other crabs pull them down. And that's what a lot of people are. A lot of people are crabs in a bucket and it's just a weakness and an insecurity. And a lot of times it's because they don't know anybody like you. They don't know anybody like Roy. They don't know anybody that can push them. They don't know anybody that they can they can look at their friend and they could say, you know, this can do it. I can do it, too. If this guy if I know what he would do right now, he's gonna like Here's a funny story. I was in um Texas with uh Aubrey and uh we were pig

114:32hunting and um we were in this miserable environment. There were so many mosquitoes. It was brutal. I mean, we were just getting mauled by the end of the day. I mean, it looked like I had some kind of crazy disease. Like my whole body was covered in mosquito bites. And uh I thought to myself while I was out there, if Cam Haynes was out here, he would keep going. He would just deal with the fact that mosquitoes are biting him and he would keep going. And uh uh Aubrey said, "How the did you get through all those mosquitoes?" And I said, "I thought that if Cam Haynes was out here, he would keep going." He goes, "That's hilarious." He goes, "I thought if Joe Rogan can do it, I can do it." So you without even be there pushed me and me because I kept going, it pushed him. I mean, we were It was miserable. We were It was just a cloud of mosquitoes. We just swarmed on. Well,

115:22you know, I mean, it's, you know, it is a funny story, but I do in some way feel responsibility to the people that follow me or look up to me to not give up. I I know people look to me for inspiration and, you know, and it helps. It's like when I don't feel like doing something, I think about all the people who expect me to. And I mean I have a huge drive to do it myself but it's just like sometimes those little things and thinking about you know this story with you or people who have lost a hundred pounds thinking about you know uh the work I put in. It's like all those things have made me who I am. So it's it's not like I might think about specific stories, but I think about all the people who have been such a positive uh I they've made such a positive impact on me because I guess I have on them, you know, so in return and it and it makes me, you know, it like that like

116:20the Bigfoot 200 that I'm doing if I'm just on my own and nobody knows who I am, I'm much le much less uh much or not as tough. uh much le less resilient as the guy I'm going to be who will line up to run the Bigfoot 200 in August because I feel like I'll have an army of people helping me push me and I just think that that's you know as a so society that's a type of things we need to focus on. I believe inspiration is a two-way street. Yeah. when you inspire people, those like I I do these meet and greets after shows all the time. And I can't tell you how many people I've come up to after the show that say, "I lost 100 pounds once I started listening to your podcast. I started eating healthy. I started looking at my body in a different way. I started realizing like I would be happier if I took care of myself and then I'm happier when I do force myself to exercise. And now I do

117:13it every day and I'm drinking kale shakes and I'm eating healthy foods and I stop drinking and all this and it makes me feel better. I mean, I I think about it when I work out. I I think that's where inspiration is a two-way street. And then it's also like we were talking about like you've created a community through your your social media and through the the positive posts that you make and through through all your actions and all the different things you've done. You've created this sort of sense of community where all these other people, they feed off of that and you feed off of them and we all feed off of each other. Yeah. No. And through this podcast too, man, this has been a I mean, this is an inspirational podcast. I'm going to listen to this podcast when I work out tomorrow. Yeah. when I when I do my morning workout tomorrow, I'm gonna put this on my headphones and I'm

117:55gonna listen to this. I'm gonna listen specifically to the story about you and Roy. Yeah. And that, you know, people want to be that kind of person. You know, people don't want to be a lazy who criticizes people for no reason. They they don't want to be that guy that's weak and that talks about someone when they're not there because they feel bad that that person is out there working out. Like, you don't have to do what Cam Haynes is doing. Like, shut the up. You know what you're doing, You know what you're doing when you're doing that. while you're doing it, you know what you're doing. While you're making those, you know, there's a little sneaky voice in the back of your head. Unless you're completely obtuse, unless you're completely oblivious to the way the way you interact and interface with the world, you know what you're doing when you're saying those things. You're

118:32trying to chop someone down cuz they make you feel weak. Instead of saying, "This guy is out there doing something awesome." Instead of just what's what's negative about someone working out and being healthy, what's negative about someone who values physical fitness and accomplishing difficult goals? Like that is the essence of character. That's the essence of what's inspirational about a person. I'm not inspired by someone who sleeps till 2. I'm not inspired by someone who can't not eat shitty food and loves to smoke. You know, I'm inspired by discipline. Discipline. I love discipline. And I'm that's you talked about the rock. Guys like the rock. And so that's, you know, and the rock is out to 40 million. You get out to How many will listen to this podcast? I mean, I don't know. It'd be more than a million for sure. Millions. So, I mean, and over the course of how many

119:20years this is out there in the world, right? So, I'm inspired by you, the rock. And so, in my own little bow hunting world, I just tried to live up to that. and and you know I guess what I want to I want to thank you for giving me this platform and giving me access to all you've created here because you know as we've talked about that's what feels good to reach people inspire people and yeah maybe they'll be inspired maybe even a little by the heartbreak of losing a good buddy you know maybe to be a better friend or maybe to be somebody who uh I don't know that integral part of somebody else's life maybe that'll inspire him maybe the workout part, who knows? Maybe to be a better uh I don't know, more understanding the to the vegans and be able to explain it better. There's so much you can take from this podcast and without you giving me this microphone, it would never happen. So, I

120:12want to thank you and uh I'm so grateful. Uh I've just I'm so happy I've I've met you and uh we've created this friendship. I I couldn't be more happy myself. And again, that inspiration is a two-way street. This podcast doesn't exist if it's not for other people. I mean, what all I am is like a an antenna or something just broadcasting my thoughts and other people's thoughts, too. And without a guy like you to introduce me to something like bow hunting, I would have no idea. I would have gone to my grave without having any idea how rewarding it is to go and get my own meat through archery in the woods. How difficult it is to pursue such an incredibly uh incredibly demanding discipline, right? and what that's about. And for you being inspirational and for you creating those videos, you reached me and and you touched me with your positivity and with your your inspiration and with your

121:04dedication and focus. And I live for that, man. I live for inspiration. That's my fuel. I love it. I love inspiring people. I love people that are inspiring me and I love inspiring other people. I love inspiration. I think it's one of the most one of the most powerful aspects about our new ability to communicate with each other, right? Social media. So, you can you can be a negative anchor or you can inspire. So, maybe that's the message of the of the uh podcast today is get out there. Like I say, make a positive difference. Yes, that's it. We can all do it. Doesn't have to be big. Doesn't have to be to 40 million or 10 million or 1 million. I can be a one guy. Yes. Make a positive difference. We we can all do it and we we can all do it in our own way. And it's the better way to live. It's the better way to live. This this world that we're living in right now is essentially

121:54a global community that's coming to awaken. It's it's aware of itself now in a way that's never been before. We can communicate with each other. Like you know, there's this strange new time where you can you could seek out that pisses you off. You can see you could just spend all day on Kanye West Instagram page and get angry. You could you could just scour through all the worst aspects of all sorts of different people. Or you can choose to be inspired. You can choose to live your life in a powerful and dedicated way. But there's only one way to do that. That's is through action. Yeah. You have to It's a choice. Yeah. It is a choice, man. But it's a good choice. It's a great choice to make. Well, it's uh it's through that choice, you enrich yourself and you enrich the other people that you come in contact with and then we're stronger stronger as a society.

122:49No, we're not perfect people, folks. You know, we're all we all up. We all get mad when we shouldn't get mad. We all falter. And through those lessons of of on of failure, sometimes the disappointment you have in yourself when you come up short is the fuel you need to make sure you never come up short that way again. And maybe you'll come up short in another way next week. You know, well, that thing's never going to happen again either. And you got to find a way. Yeah, it is a process. And and that's one of the things that I really try to drill into people's heads, you know, they go, "How can you how have you done so many things? I've done so many things because I've sucked at all of them." Yeah. Everything I've ever tried, I sucked at in the beginning. Everything. You fail and then you learn how to not fail. And you you know, how do you how do you do

123:34that? Well, you take goddamn chances. That's how that's how you start bow hunting at 45. You got to take chances. And if you don't take chances, if you stay within your comfort zone, man, that's not a fun life. It's not a it's it's a it's it's a cushiony life. I mean, it's probably a little safer. It's insulated. And that's what I'd always respected about you is you when you started bow hunting and and you know, it's because I know firsthand how difficult it is. So, you've been successful in so many different arenas, right? and been you Joe Rogan. All of a sudden Joe Rogan is a new bow hunter who doesn't know about anything. And it's like for you to say I'm okay with that. That's a big deal. Most people who have been so successful don't want to be starting out on ground zero again. So I mean for you to do that and then and then become so just disciplined and enamored

124:28with the the discipline of bow hunting has been awesome. And uh I I love it. I I love doing things I suck at. Most people don't. That's why I like yoga, man. I mean, it's why uh like when we were working out today, you have that same sort of approach to like we were I was showing you all these crazy new exercises and you were gravitating towards the ones you weren't good at. Oh, yeah. I mean, it was that's Yeah. I mean, I I love pushing myself. It's like when I when I work out with new people, I love exposing them to I said, "Okay, this workout doesn't start until you're miserable." And then once you're miserable, then it counts because everybody can do it when it's easy, right? Okay, now you can't do it, now we start. And it's just like I I you know, I had a good I I just like exposing people and what I always say, you know, and people other people have said it

125:19too. I had to invent this, but being comfortable from being uncomfortable. And that's just getting in that moment where okay, now I'm here. Now I want to start gaining, you know, and that's that's just the that's the journey that anything that's has a big reward is going to require that. Well, that's the essence of jiu-jitsu. The essence of jiu-jitsu is being comfortable while you're uncomfortable because everybody gets tapped. There's no way to get good at jiu-jitsu unless you get mauled by another person is the only way. And you know for me I started jiu-jitsu as you know a former taekwondo champion who had spent my whole I was successful at striking my whole life I had done you know uh different forms of striking competitions and then all a sudden I'm doing jiu-jitsu and getting crushed by people my size or smaller and they're just beating the piss out of me

126:10like I'm a ragd doll. Like I'm a I'm a grappling dummy. And for me, I I had realized I had first of all, I had to address the fact that I was nowhere near as competent in self-defense as I thought I was. Like, as soon as these guys got a hold of me, they were just strangling me. I was like, "Okay." Like, my perception of what I could do versus the reality of what I could do, it was I had to I had to just address it. I had to figure it out. And so, okay, now I got to get crazy and attached to this And then I became like completely obsessed with that about of training and and getting and but that's one of the beautiful things about jiu-jitsu. One of the things about jiu-jitsu that I admire most in the truly good practitioners is they have very healthy egos because their their their egos get tested. Yeah. They're in check all the time. They're constantly

126:57tapping. You tap all the time. Yeah. I mean, I don't think I've ever gone more than a few months in my whole life without tapping. Well, and that's the same with bow hunting. Don't start bow hunting unless you can deal with failure. Yeah. You know, it's a humbling just like just like you know the discipline you're talking about. Bow hunting is a discipline just like that where it will humble you no matter how good you think you are. Yeah. Yeah. I think all very difficult things are good for you. I mean as long as it doesn't kill you, it's good for you. I mean like these these goddamn ultramarathons you're running this crazy you one a 100 miles is not enough. You're like well I've already done that a couple of times. Now I got to do a 200. So here's the Bigfoot 200. Here's quick facts Jamie just pulled up. Just under 50,000 ft of ascent. 15,240 m of ascent. More than 96,000 ft

127:47of elevation change. 203.8 miles non-stop pointtooint. Six sleep stations with full aid, hot food, medical and crew access. 16 full aid stations. The race starts at Mount St. Helens in the Cascade Mountain Range of Washington State and finishes in Randall, Washington, traversing pointto-point the Cascade Mountains. That's insane. That's uh so my goal with it and I've never done a 200 obviously the the furthest I've run is 106 and a half miles on 24 hours. So this will be a new test. Um and my goal for this I and I don't even know if it's possible. I don't want to sleep. I don't want to take advantage of any of those sleep stations. I want to be able to push through and finish in 60 hours and last year 64 hours won it and I'm trying to that's what I'm training. You want to beat that. I want to beat that. I want I want to beat 64 and I just want to I want to grind it out. I

128:44want to be better than I've ever been. And so that's you know right now I'm training I haven't been training this hard this early in the year. So I'm taking it I'm I'm doing a lot of miles but not hammering hard and uh bu trying to build up that base. So, come August, I hope to line up there for the Bigfoot 200 and I hope to run it faster than it's ever been run. Jesus Christ. Are you going to lose body mass before you do that? Because you're always lifting weights. Like, what what are you going to do differently? I need to get lighter. Uh you weigh about what like 177. Yeah, right now I am, you know, and I was up 182 or 83. And so I'm trying to I want to get down I'd like to get 69 maybe, you know, and I think I just really feel like I'd be efficient at that. And I just, you know, it's it's physical, but it's a lot mental also. So, I mean, I I'll get my I'll

129:36prepare my body for it, but it's just whether I can hydrate and fuel uh well enough, smart enough, and just do everything, keep my feet healthy. That's what's going to determine whether I can finish in 60 hours. So, uh I think I I believe I have what it takes. Um but a lot of people probably have what it takes, but to implement it is going to be difficult, but I'm I can't wait. I wish it was tomorrow. What's the percentage of people who start that thing versus complete it? I don't know. I I think it's pretty high percentage because if you line up for 200, you didn't just decide to do that, right? You know what I mean? These people are crazy. They've put in a lot of training. And so mo if if they're crazy, I mean, it's $1,000 to run it. So if they're crazy enough to pay the entry fee, line up there, they didn't just it wasn't on a whim. It was. They've geared their

130:31life toward it. It's crazy, too, because it's not a thousand mile. I mean, it's not 200 miles on a flat track. No, it's mountains. Mountains. I mean, you you know that 50,000 feet of ascent. Oh my god. That's what What is that? Two Mount Everest. Jesus Christ. What is Mount Everest? 30,000 ft. I think it's 26. Jesus. Something like that. So, I mean, it's two of those. And I mean, but but and it has that same uh So, it's 96,000 ft of change. So what that means is you're grinding up as much as you're hammering down. And that down breaks your quads down as you know slow yourself down. Is this it? This is a video of it. Yep. So that's that's the country that it's in. What is this guy doing? He's walking. Run, Yeah. What are you doing? Why you walking? Well, there's like this. Oh my god. This is the country. This is it. You can't run this. Wait a minute. Hold on a

131:20second. Yeah, it's like this. Yes. Oh dude. Hardest ultra in the USA. Right. How do you know which way to go? How do you go left or right? There'll be ribbons, so there's probably ribbons that'll mark, but this isn't No, you're not on a bike trail. This is the hardest ultra in the USA. We need to document this. We need So, this is 200 miles of this. And if you try to run, Here's what I learned with ultras. If you try to run where it's super steep, all you're doing is going to blow your legs out, right? I mean, so you have to get good at hiking, too, because you hike the super steep stuff, or this isn't even runnable, really, but you don't want even want to try. So, it's all about being efficient and managing managing your resource, but it's it's a test. That's uh to put it mildly. Yeah. So, I'm I mean that I I don't know. This is what I live for. But listen, dude, there's a problem. And

132:08that that is that this is in August and you need to be healthy in September because we got to go back. We're bow hunting in September. It's all mental. It's not all mental, man. There's some there's definitely some physical involved in that. Yeah. How many people have completed it? I don't know what, Jamie. What is that one nutty run that you told me about that very few people know about? The Barkclays, I believe, is what it's called. Have you heard about this? Yeah, that's intense. What is that? That's like a I don't even know if there's really a course, you know. They have There's no course. It's uh It's really loose. They don't It's not marked. You can get lost. You have to have your own map. Oh, great. Yeah, it's And it's something like 64 miles, maybe, but it's like I mean, you're in swamps. It's nasty. I mean, I think God, it seems like four people finish or

132:54something. They only allow in it's a small number. 12 TW I don't I don't know that much. I've heard about it. Just one to two people finish it each time. Some people don't finish it. It's five. You do it like if I remember correctly. It's a like one one way up during the day and you come back down it during night and then you switch and go the opposite way the next day up and down. And then if you can make it to that fifth turn, it's all and it's also the same kind of way. It's non-stop. If you want to sleep, you sleep. You only have, I think, a window of like 36 hours total to finish the whole thing if you can make it. Yeah, maybe 48 hours. But yeah, it's You got your eye on that thing? I don't know. I I mean that to me, the navigation is a whole different animal, you know? I want to be able to I want to be prepared. I want to know where the course is roughly. You know what I mean?

133:42I don't really want to waste time having to read a map and figure a compass. That's a whole different challenge, which maybe I'll get to that at some point. Right now, I just want to run 200 miles. I want to run it that race as fast as it's been run. I don't I don't know if that I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know what my body is going to do, but I want to find out and I'm looking forward to it. Wow, that's intense, man. I'll be ready. We should document it. I should be like in a Range Rover next to you. That's air conditioning, sipping lemonade. Yeah. Control a drone. Oh, a drone. That's a move. Yeah. Yeah. No. Well, I'm pretty Yeah, it's How How does someone document that? You would have to have GoPros on or something like that because someone would have to go with you. People have talked about filming it. Maybe Under Armour will. I'm not sure how they going

134:24to do that. I don't know. You'd have to have some savage that's willing to run it with you. My brother I know my brother's going to run some of it with me and he's a beast. Yeah. Yeah. So, he's uh he runs he's done a hundred before. Has he run? Yeah. In your family. Yeah. So, he's he's your dad was like uh was your dad what? track and field athlete as well. Yeah, he was, you know, my my dad was uh I'm not athletic. My dad was a freak. And uh he had, you know, full scholarships at Oregon, Oregon State for track and field and gymnastics, two different sports. He was pretty tall for a gymnast. He was around six foot tall, but just crazy ability. Um he he was an amazing athlete. So, I didn't get that, but maybe I got I got enough of it to be tough. Yeah. But see, when people say that, like, well, what have you attempted to do that's athletic where you failed at? Like people that say,

135:21"Oh, I'm not a really good athlete." Like, what is a really good athlete? It's someone who practices the techniques of whatever sport they're trying to do and gets really good at it. Yeah. I mean, you're really good at running and you're really good at bow hunting. Bow hunting is absolutely athletic, right? Well, it's like if if golf is a sport, what's bow hunting? I mean, is a problem with calling hunting a sport a lot of people have? Cuz I I think it's best described as a discipline because I don't I don't like to think of it as something that you score points. Yeah, me neither. I don't It's too trivial. No, it's too too much of life. But I do think uh there is athleticism within bow hunting%, you know, especially out west, especially in the mountains in Alaska. Um, so yeah, I mean I I I when I think when people think athlete, they think the general

136:08the sports, track and field, football, basketball, you know, things like that. So I mean um I didn't get that elite athleticism in those sports as my dad did. I mean I think he had the ability to make the Olympics. Um but you know, life happened. I was born this or that. So he was he was a freak in in what what you might call normal athletic events. Maybe bow hunting, you know, qualifies on it's 100% qualifies. I mean, look, does fighting qualify as athletics? I think it does, but it's way more intense than regular athletics. It's something way more personal and dangerous about the goal of knocking someone unconscious while they're trying to knock you unconscious. And if if fighting if that conc if that's athletics, bow hunting is most certainly athletics. But I think we both agree that it's it's a little bit more intense than a sport. Yeah, definitely. It's more it's almost

137:02disrespectful in a way. Not I mean, if you consider it a sport, you call it a sport, that's fine. But in my view, it's so much about the life and the reverence for this animal that you hunt and then take. It's not It's not We won the Super Bowl. We scored the goal. the ball went in the hole. It's the journey. The It's the journey. It's not just the punch tag. So the punch tag, you'd say, "Well, I won." Yeah. I won. So in a sport, there's a winner and a loser. You kill the animal, you punch your tag, you won. It's not it. I mean, it's it's the whole journey that leads to that. And then also, we talk about the getting the meat home and providing for your family. How do you score that? You can't. So, I mean, yeah, it's not a sport in that regard, for sure. There's it's a discipline. And even that word is like it's bow hunting is bow hunting, man. That's what it is. Yeah,

137:52it's on its own. It's on its own. It's got its own thing. And on that note, you got to catch a flight, my brother. I do. Thank you again. So much fun to hang out, even just for a few hours. It was great to hang out with you in Salt Lake and wander around all those freaks and dead animals. Uh all right, folks. We'll be back tomorrow with my brother Doug Duran. Um Wednesday, Boss Rutin and Marl Rala. Woo, that's going to be fun. the original team from or one of the original teams from Pride Broadcasting. Two great guys. Maro is an awesome dude. Um and Boss is the best. And of course on Friday, Robin Black uh who now works for the UFC. We got him a job. Yes. So, uh we'll see you soon. Thank you everybody. Much love. Bye-bye. Later.