Cameron Hanes: Podcast from a Car #2

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08:07This is a podcast we did in a car. I mean, really, it's kind of pretentious even calling it a podcast. It's a conversation that we had on my iPhone that I'm going to release online. Because we wanted to talk about we were coming back from a successful hunt. and uh cameron is a very famous bow hunter so if you're not into any of that and uh that kind of stuff bums you out you don't have to listen to this podcast like I'm why would I even have to say that like you don't have to listen to that's I'm a ridiculous person don't mind me um so this is what the podcast is it's a conversation between two dudes coming back from bear hunting um so that's it. So ladies and gentlemen, my friend Cameron Haynes. Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Hello ladies and gentlemen, set that down right there.

09:13I'm in a car right now with Cameron Haynes. Rick Carone. Shani Rivett. Rick's on the camera. Rick's on the camera. I got this recording too. I'm going to release this as an audio podcast. And we're coming back right now from a successful bear hunt in Alberta. Good times up there, up in the middle of the woods. And we were just talking about the contradictions, like the things that people uh hate on on hunting and how ridiculous it is and one of the ones that drives me the most crazy is people that claim that they're animal lovers and so they you know they they get really mad at you for hunting but they have pets and you know like what do you feed these pets like what do you think this food grows on a dog food tree is it what do you think cats It doesn't. No, it doesn't. Yeah. You're buying some animal that somebody captured.

10:12I mean, they probably have them in cages somewhere, pens, and then they kill them and they grind them up and they turn them into dog food. And those people will claim that what you're doing by going out in the wild and getting an animal is either unethical or immoral or terrible. And those contradictions, those like the ones that are right in front of your face, those have always puzzled me about people which the pursuit of what we were just doing is so much more pure than whatever goes into the dog food or the factory farming or whatever but first before we get into that what about the hunt it was an awesome hunt got two bears um one the day before last and one yesterday it was awesome uh very exciting very uh very crazy and the meat was delicious. Jenny cooked it up, taught me a new recipe, how to do, what did you put in it?

11:10You stir fried it, but what did you put in it? What were the ingredients? Some bacon, onions, peppers, a whole bunch of spices. It was awesome. All anybody who was eating it was raving about how good it was. It was, I mean, whatever deer or elk steak you've had before, it would rival that. It's really good. It's such good bear meat. I mean, bear meat has a stigma a little bit, but it is prepared right, just as gin proved. Amazing food. Well, you know, I wrote that thing on social media, the hierarchy of dead animals on social media, and that, like, the one that no one cares about is chopped up fish. Like, if you have a slice of fish, like a fillet of fish, it doesn't bother them. Now, fish live. That's a life, right? It is a life. But as long as it's a piece that's already cut up, we're so desensitized. We're so used to that being in a package, in styrofoam, at the supermarket.

12:03We don't think of it as being something that somebody killed. The Filet-O-Fish Sandwich. Filet-O-Fish Sandwich. Well, who knows what that is, right? It's a square. Allegedly, it's fish, I think. It's somehow mashed into a square. That's the same weight every time. Doesn't make any sense, right? I've never caught a Filet-O-Fish Sandwich in the wild. No, in the wild. They're very crafty. Only McDonald's knows how to wrangle those suckers. So then there's dead fish, which some people get a little more squeamish. You see the actual fish. And then there's things like pigs that people really don't care too much about. Wild boar. People kind of get grossed out by them. Turkeys. Nobody gives a shit about turkeys. We've already talked about this. I don't. But even anti-hunters don't. So they're just like, yeah, I think because they're so ugly,

12:52who cares if they're dead it's kind of what the anti-hunters you know we talked about the more beautiful the animal yeah the more outrage yeah is that it kind of there's a lot of that for sure well with bears bears are one of the big ones and I think there's a couple reasons that I think one bears people associate bears with trophy hunting they so and I know one of the things about you is that you eat everything you kill yeah and I think that's important I really do I mean I I I don't have any problem with people that want to go and shoot some weird animal because they want to make a collection. Because I know that in conservation money, a lot of those animals, there's a reason why their populations are thriving. And that's the case in Africa. That Louis Thoreau podcast that I did, but it's his documentary that he did on those African hunting ranches.

13:47There's people that hate those ranches. When you find out about it, it's not that clear cut. There's a lot of weirdness to that whole thing because there's animals that were on the verge of extinction that are now thriving. And the only reason why they're thriving is because they have a dollar value to them. Yeah, no, I mean, there's value to the animals here in the United States also. Sure. And hunters are the ones that, as we've covered a million times on my podcast with you, I'm sure you talked about it with Jim Shockey and any hunter you have on, you talked about the positive impact of hunting and hunters' money. It's, you know, so you go beyond all that. You go beyond the challenge and the hunt. What I liked about this hunt for you, and you can still talk about your hierarchy of animal kills if you want, but you talked about, I want to just touch on the intensity of the moment.

14:38You know, this hunt, yeah, it is about, you're taking a cooler full of meat home. We ate meat at camp, and it was amazing. But there's just that primal instinct of being in the woods. We're in close. We hadn't had, you know, because of the weather and the moon and all sorts of factors, we weren't seeing the bear like we had in the past. And so all this anxiety is building. All this time is passing, and you're wondering, are we going to see anything? And then as, you know, basically dusk is approaching, we see our first bear. And so then all of a sudden, it's a race against the clock. And you talked about the intensity or what that feels like. You can't mimic that feeling in regular life, right? No, you can't. And you also know that there's something about when you come to full draw on an animal, you can't pull that arrow back once it's released.

15:33And there's a decision that you have to make where you're lining up the shot and you're making sure your fundamentals are in order, your technique is good. and the animal's moving, by the way. The animal's not cooperating. Has no idea it's even participating in this little experiment. And you've got to make a good shot. It's discipline. It is discipline. And, you know, thankfully, every animal I've shot so far with a bow I've killed, but there's a lot involved in that. That's a lot of practice. I mean, I shot at least 190 arrows yesterday, at least. we're just practicing over and over and over again and everybody else in camp was doing the same thing everybody's practicing practicing for hours we practiced all for that one moment where that bear's right in front of you and he turns broadside and you get that perfect shot and

16:25that that feeling is it's crazy it's it's so primal and there's nothing that mimics it and then when the arrow goes like I was telling jen after we shot the bear last night like right after it happened I go I don't even feel like that happened it didn't feel like it happened it felt it felt fake it was it felt like uh like a like a dream or something you know it's weird yeah well it does happen so quickly what happens I think with a lot of new archers new bow hunters is that's exactly right the animal comes in all the practice they put in sometimes it's so intense and as we've alluded to regular life doesn't prepare you for those type of moments I know as a new bow hunter I would come back shoot not even be certain which pin I used if the animal was that and just be like what the heck just happened yeah what what just what

17:21happened I don't remember anything and you got to try to piece it together and it's just that's where the fundamentals come in and you know as we were sitting there that first night or the third night of the hunt actually and the bear came in you know I was you get there you get cold you start putting on more clothes you get gloves on you get a hood on and then then the bear comes in and I was I was asking you I was like you shot with your glove on before and I just wanted to make sure because it doesn't seem like a big deal it's a big deal when the success the line between success and failure on an animal when you're using a razor sharp rodhead can be this thin sometimes a glove doing something a little bit different when you shoot that can that can be the difference and and on your bear fatal shot died quickly but it wasn't exactly where you'd hoped it would be

18:11even though you shot thousands and thousands of reps million you know over the last two years who knows how many shots and it was only at 15 yards and still it wasn't a perfect shot no it was slightly back and so we weren't sure what had happened we we heard the thing run and then crash and then we heard the death moan about 30 seconds later so we knew it was dead but we didn't know where and so then we had to go on the blood trail and by then we we I shot the bear about it was about dark it was just turning dark yeah so from then on still legal light it was legal light it was legal light but I had these light I have lighted knocks which means like when the bow releases the arrow, the knock where the arrow hits the string, it lights up, which is really cool. So you could see exactly the path of the arrow. So I could see where it hit. If

19:04I didn't have lighted knocks, it would just be, I don't know where it hit. It would just be guessing. That's a big advantage because there's been kind of a, even in Oregon, lighted knocks, where I'm from, lighted knocks aren't legal. And it doesn't give you an advantage. No. It helps. You know, just like that, we knew, I was watching the binoculars, we knew immediately a little bit back yeah so that kind of that plays into the approach we're going to take on on the animal and tracking it but knowing where that animal hits is huge anyway we we knew you're a little bit back yeah we saw the arrow go through the night and right into the bear yeah through the it's like dusk yeah and um you know and then we went tracked down uh took a long time and found it And Cam carried it out on his shoulders, covered in blood, all the way down the back of his pants.

19:54But it was a huge relief to find the animal. It's all mental. It's all mental, he says. That's the theme of this week. Stay tuned for those shirts. Yeah, that's the next shirt. It's all mental, including doing things you probably shouldn't do, like having bare blood on your hand and eating chips. It's all mental. It pretty much encompasses everything in life. It's all mental. I think, yeah. yeah anyway but it was you know tracking that bear so we're on our hands and knees um through thick thick brush you know um looking for pinpricks of blood because even though I mean we knew the bear was dead but we walked down there and I told joe I'm like we got to get on the blood trail we heard the death moment but it'd been about 200 yards away and we're like I said he could be anywhere it was dark five yards from him and not know so we had to get back on

20:46the blood trail and unravel that thing and that's that's a big part of bow hunting also that's a you know a huge part of um of bow hunting in its woodsmanship it's learning how to unravel a blood trail where to look for blood depending on on where the arrow hits where that blood's gonna either wipe on a tree how it's gonna splatter how it's gonna drip if it's gonna run down the leg you know bear don't have a hoof like a deer elk so they're not leaving a a real print so it's it was difficult but you know I think about midnight we finally recovered that bear and we rejoiced. Yeah it's interesting because when we first started looking for it we could still see it was still bright enough that we could see through the woods and we were trying to look for it and then we realized you know what we better start from scratch we better because we

21:37kind of knew we heard it drop and we heard the moan so we knew it was in an area when we say moan for people who don't know when bears die they most of the time they make a real audible moan it's it can be pretty haunting in dark woods you hear this they you know everybody everybody that sounds more like sasquatch no sasquatch is like this so what if so what if we actually can kill sasquatch I wonder what he'd do uh he'd probably be like, dude, what the fuck? I'm just a guy out here. Yeah, with his costume on. We're trying to make a TV show. I'm just working with Les Stroud out here in the woods, trying to make some money. You shot my ass. Thank you. But we were talking about the stigma attached to bear hunting. Steve Rinella coined this phrase, charismatic megafauna. And is there certain... That's a hell of a phrase. That's Rinella. He's very articulate.

22:41If you had that on a shirt, it would take up a lot of space. Yeah, it's not... Steve, you've got to shorten that stuff up. We've got to keep it simple. Yeah, if you want to have shirts that sell well on social media. You're not going to sell any of those. But it's all mental. People can get behind that. There you go. Charismatic megafauna sounds like an indie band from Seattle. I bet Caitlyn would wear one of those. She probably would. Note how I said she. We're talking about Bruce Jenner. I did the it's Caitlin with a C yes is that not normal no I got that wrong yesterday oh they usually use K no I said I said something or I typed it it was like with the K and they're like no C get it right well you can't commit to it because she might change tomorrow and decide to be Debbie you know once you live 65 years as Bruce and then one day you're Caitlin all bets are off yeah you don't know

23:36what to do she can do whatever the fuck she wants yeah yeah or he or whatever He prefers he, by the way, in that interview. Whatever. We're getting off track. The mega-fauna. Yeah. That people have this idea, first of all, because of movies where bears are your friends. You know, Yogi Bear and Boo Boo and, you know, Winnie the Pooh. We have all these ideas about bears being these, you know, our buddies. They're not. They're big predators that are almost all cannibals. They eat their babies. It's very, very, very common. And it's one of the reasons why you have to hunt these male boars to keep the population healthy. And it seems counterintuitive. You think, like, well, if you're killing animals, that's bad for the population. But it's not. Because if you kill boars, you actually make the population of new animals healthier. Because boars eat a lot of babies.

24:34Not just bear babies, but goose babies. A boar is a male bear. Some people don't know that. They think it's a pig, yeah. Sometimes I'll put, like, I put, you killed a boar. And people think, well, you misspelled the word bear, you idiot. No, actually, that one was right. That's a male bear. Yeah. It's a boar and a sow. Yeah. Just like a pig. So what, with John and Jen up here, the target is older boars who have already done all their breeding, you know. and it keeps the population healthy because those big nasty old boars, they'll go and they'll kill other cubs. They want the sows to come and he, the sow is a female bear, so if she has cubs but they're not his, he wants to kill the cubs so she comes back and he. So that's pretty much how it works. Well, they think that boars will even kill their own cubs. They also think, they don't know, the common thought was that boars kill cubs

25:27because they want the female to come back into estrus. but now they're starting to think that they just kill them for food that they they apparently in alaska they've they've done a lot of studies on grizzlies too when they come out of hibernation one of the first things they do is go digging into dens and pull out cubs and they're not trying to do that to breed they're trying to do that to eat and it's uh it's just it's a hard world on tv no they don't yeah I never saw that on yogi bear no that would yogi he wasn't doing stuff like that Yeah, they all do it. That's real world. Yeah. That's how it's tough out here in the wild. People don't realize it. They're tricky animals. They're really tricky animals. And it's one of the more dangerous hunts in that respect because you're hunting something that can kill you. It really can.

26:18And when Jen and I were on the ground yesterday, there was a bear that was nine yards from us behind us, sneaking up on us, trying to figure out what we're up to. and it was it was weird you know turning around and seeing this thing right behind you looking at you and you know 250 pound bear that could easily kill you easily if they wanted to strong they're so fast too they're fast strong people you know I've seen them basically get they say well those big bear they can't climb trees seen big bear fly up a tree almost as fast as you could run on the ground they can go up a tree then they can come down a tree then from about 10 feet they'll get come down to about 10 feet and just let go of the tree, launch backwards, hit the ground full speed. So it's just like, people say, oh, well, just if you get in a bear problem, just climb a tree. No. Yeah, that's ridiculous.

27:09There's plenty of videos of them running up trees. Yeah, and just the fact that they can hold a tree like this and go up, how strong, you know, that is just, that's just claws getting in that bark, and that's just pure power. and running up the tree. They literally can sprint up a tree faster than you can run on the ground. It is one of the weirdest things to see. There's videos of it on YouTube if you want to look. There's these hunters that are in a tree stand and this black bear runs up the tree right next to them. And it's so shocking how fast he does it. He's just trying to see what they're up to. He just runs up to them and looks at them eye to eye. And, you know, these misconceptions about these animals. one of the big ones is that they're not good to eat and I think that misconception a lot of times

28:01because either people don't know how to prepare them or they they don't know how to take care of the meat once they kill it they let it get dirty or they let it spoil that's with any animal yeah that's you know deer elk I love when my meat's clean for lack of a better word but you know deer elk I don't know I just like having a quarter that is perfect no pine needles no anything and it's just it looks like just beautiful meat well you know we took great pains with your bear just to keep that meat clean and it's all in the it's all in how you take care of it in the field how you skin it how clean it stays what you do with that meat because people people who've eaten deer elk have had bad taste in deer and elk too yeah so I mean it's not just bear but I think another thing is people get worried about trichinosis that's been in the

28:58news it's a parasite that can live in bear in bear meat um and that all you have to do is is cook it well and yeah you just have to cook it to 160 degrees it's the same with pork when you you know when you never eat pink like really raw rare pork it's because of trichinosis it's very common But it's interesting, bears have so much of it that 90% of all the cases of trichinosis in the United States or in North America come from bear meat, which is really weird because not that many people eat bear. When you think about, you can't buy it commercially like you can pork. You have to go hunt it or know someone who hunts it. But still, it accounts for 90% of the trichinosis. And our friend Steve Rinella, who told me all these facts, got trichinosis. Even after all that, he still was eating over a campfire and didn't. You can see. It's on his episode with, I forget the gentleman's name.

29:51I'm trying to remember his name. He's a Navy SEAL. And they went hunting together, and they shot this bear, but it was raining out. And they tried to start a fire with wet branches and stuff. It's tough to get that fire hot and non-conditioned. Yeah. They should have just saved that meat, brought it back, but they ate it. Now, if the zombie apocalypse comes and you eat stevenella, you will get trichinosis unless you cook them well. I'm going to make note of that. You never know. One other thing people have, I think with bear also, I mean, not everybody hunts. Not everybody spends as much time as we do out in the woods here. So people don't see bear all the time. Yeah. You know, I have seen a lot of people or seen a lot of comments on my Facebook or social media. is even something like, I thought bear were in danger. Yeah. Or I get a lot of hate from freaking people in England

30:41who obviously don't know. Luckily, I don't cuss because I could cuss right now. Well, they always call you a cunt. They do. And they don't, what do they know about hunting over here? But they sure have an opinion. And it seems like a ton of people in England who are very fond of the C word, like to chime in on why we bear hunt little penis you have a little penis ego what are you talking about this is part of management yeah you don't have so you don't have bear in england so why would you think you could weigh in on how we should take care of you know bear in this country but uh there's just you know most people that go to starbucks go hang out boat go buy groceries go to the movie you're not going to see a bear or two in those situations so they think oh there must not be very many meanwhile these woods right here are loaded with them

31:32they're overrun with bears there's a lot of bears jen and I saw at least four that we well we heard one of them and we saw three different bears and this is over the course of we were there for like what three hours at the most and cam we've had nights where we saw more than that I mean there was that one night where bears were all over the place it's crazy we've seen seven eight nine bears in a night. That's not uncommon. John and Jen up here where in the country they hunt, they've had nights where they've seen 20 bears. Yeah. And that's at one place, 20 bears. So it's in a small location. Yeah. Because you're talking about incredibly dense woods and you know you're set you're set up in a clearing. So in this small clearing where you could only see the very most you could see is like you get hints of like 60, 70, 80 yards into the woods.

32:27But everything, it's just, it's so dense that everything past like 70 yards is like, you might see like a small black shadow that moves in between trees. And you think it's a bear, but you're like, what was it? Is that a bear? You see some movement. You don't really, it could be a deer. It could be anything at that distance. And in that small area, you're seeing 20 bears. There's a lot of bears up here. And they decimate the moose population. They decimate the deer population. They literally will pull moose calves out of their mother's body as they're giving birth. They smell the animal giving birth. They run up to that area, and they'll pull the calf right out of the body. They estimate that at least 50% of all the calves that are born out here are killed by bears. Yeah. And I know John and Jen are just driving back in their bear country there.

33:21They saw a fawn. A lot of times if a fawn and a doe is with his fawn and it gets spooked a little bit, the fawn is taught just to lay down and basically hide. You know, they don't have a lot of sin, so they lay down and hide. They got the spots, cute little fawn, everybody knows. And the doe, its mother, will take off. Well, they watched a bear run right up, see that happen, run right up to that fawn and just start tearing it apart. and you know that happens that was just something they visually saw that happens all over these woods right here there's hundreds of thousands of millions of acres here in alberta this big beautiful country not a ton of people lots of bear country and that's happening all the time so without those keeping those bear numbers in check who knows the deer and the moose would just

34:06like you said would be devastated and you're barely going to keep those numbers in check I mean, we shot two of them, and we had how many hunters in camp for how many days, and we only shot two bears. Yeah. No, it's been a little slower this year, but they're going to get some bear on the ground. But one thing I also want to say, so we talked about the bear numbers. We talked about what it does to the deer, actually elk also, and moose populations. Somebody's got to kill these bearers. Who's going to do it? It's only going to be hunters, or you're going to hire the government. I'll do it. You'll do it. You will do it. Yeah. So you might not do it if you've got an opinion on hunting or you're an anti-hunter or you're an animal rights extremist. So you don't want to, I'll do it. Because somebody has to.

34:47So quit being a baby and just accept the fact that we're going to take care of it for you. Just say thank you. If you don't, what happens is they get sick. And by the way, we're barely putting a den in the population. I mean, hunters, they'll kill some. But if you could see around us how huge this area is and how thick the forest is, you'd realize there's very little chance of you ever wiping them out. I mean, it's almost impossible. They hear you coming a mile away. They smell you coming two miles away. Just like you don't really stand a chance. But if people are upset with hunting, how do you deal with the fact that every convenience store you drive by has animals that were in captivity their whole life that were compressed into beef sticks and jerky and, you know, slim gems. It doesn't make any sense. But here's one thing that I hear. Maybe you can address this.

35:45I'm just a bow hunter, so I'm, like, on the intelligence ladder, I'm pretty low. How dare you? So they'll say. How dare you pull yourself down like that? I know what you're doing. So they'll say, well, you know, a cow. So you say factory farming. All they're raised, they're in this small captivity their whole life, and all they're raised is just to be killed. Well, people will say, because we'll say, well, how's that life any different than this deer, elk, moose, bear, whatever I hear? And they say, well, those animals, that's why they're here for support. Those animals are raised just to be slaughtered. So what do you say to that? Well, that's really silly. First of all, that's probably the saddest existence on earth, an animal that's raised just for slaughter. And I used to think that, like, you know, man, you've just got to buy organic free-range cattle.

36:32Those cattle are treated well. Until I went to my friend Doug's organic free-range farm and was around his cows. And those fuckers are terrified of people. They know the deal. They know what's going on. We walked into the pen area where he keeps his cows. And they look at you and they fucking panic. They huddle up together. They all run. They know what's going on. I mean, they might not intellectualize it. But they know we're bad news, you know, and they know we're the reason why they're penned in. In these, you know, it's a large area. They're eating grass. And it's real healthy beef. And, you know, if you want some free-range grass-fed beef, you can do no better. But it's not as healthy a life as a bear lives or an elk lives. Out in the woods. Yeah, that's the most ideal, most ethical life for an animal that you're going to eat.

37:20And if you don't want to eat animals, you know, that's your prerogative. But you have to realize that even if you buy grain, anybody that buys grain, if you buy wheat, if you buy anything that grows in a field, that stuff is commercially harvested. And if you ever see how it's commercially harvested, they use giant machines. And those machines run over that field and they slaughter everything in their path. Rabbits. Everything. Rabbits, mice, gophers, any kind of rodents. You can see her laying out there just like a fawn hiding. And that just gets chopped up. It happens all the time. Rick, show this field right here. Yeah, spin that sucker around. Just turn it. What are you doing? Panicking? See that. That is, now that is beautiful and green. And that's agriculture at its finest. But to harvest that, animals are going to die. Guaranteed animals will die.

38:14Yeah, I mean, the reality of modern life is that we need, a lot of food. I live in Los Angeles and there's who knows how many people. There's like 20 plus million people plus Mexicans. And we have no idea how many there are. No disrespect to my Mexican friends. The idea is that I got rear-ended by this guy the other day who was Mexican and he wasn't legal. He didn't have a license. He wasn't supposed to be in the country. But there's a lot of them like that and so they don't have a count of how many people but all those people so that's all my point was just that they don't have a count of it it's not that it's bad because they come in illegally so they can just guess that might be five million it might be more they really don't know and out of those people they all need to eat and very few are growing food so you need

39:08large-scale agriculture to feed those people and so you're not picking individual weed stalks out the ground you're not shocking you know corn yourself you go to the supermarket buying it and that involves large-scale agriculture which even if you're a vegan and you think you're doing no harm to this beautiful world leaving the smallest footprint possible satanam namaste you're not man you're you're a part of killing it might be indirect killing or unintentional killing but everyone's a killer that's a fact and that goes with being the top of the food chain humans that brings me to another point you can talk about we are the top of the food chain everything below us is to support our life that's just the way it goes so what do you say about specious what tell me about that speciesism oh yeah whatever it is to be a speciesist yeah that's

39:58one of the most adorable things that uh animal rights activists love to pin on humans by the way they will swat mosquitoes all those fucks is speciesists so is the mosquito alive yes it is But it doesn't count? No, it does not. Okay. But meanwhile, in some countries, they eat mosquitoes. There's, I saw this. You eat a lot of those. Yeah, man. I saw this place in Africa where they had so many mosquitoes that they were doing, they're taking a frying pan, and they were swinging this frying pan through the air, and in doing so, there's so many mosquitoes, they're slapping them into the pan, and then they would scrape the pan and make like a mosquito burger. That's, well, I thought they were going to make malaria stew. Because that's a good way to get malaria if you're eating mosquitoes in Africa. I think if you cook them good, you don't have to worry about it. Oh, it's like trichinosis.

40:49It's like trichinosis. They make patties out of these mosquitoes. It's really fucked up to watch. Because they basically have this large pan. And they're just swatting these mosquitoes until they have a good collection in the bottom of the pan. Then they scrape them. Why do they do that? They do that because they're hungry. It's a hard, hard life. There's no protein. You know, I mean, for, for natives over in Africa, a lot, protein is like gold. Just finding something that's going to sustain life. Protein, you know, we have burgers, we have bear steaks. They don't have that. And it's interesting, like, when people go over to Africa, like, say, if they kill a large animal in Africa, like, there was a big thing recently, this, this woman killed a giraffe. And all these people were really angry at her because they killed this giraffe. This giraffe was a non-breeding giraffe.

41:40There was a danger to the other giraffes in the area. They killed this giraffe, and then this giraffe fed who knows how many villagers. Well, if you go over there and you bring them food, like you say, oh, well, we went over there and we brought these villagers 100 meals of great protein. Oh, well, you're a good Samaritan. But if you go over there and you shoot an animal and you give that animal to these villagers, you're a piece of shit because you're not supposed to shoot a giraffe. I think there's a bad disconnect that human beings have where we live in these civilized, huge metropolis areas and we get all of our food grown by other people and all shipped in. We have this massive disconnect for where food comes from. If you're delivering food to the home... Like, Jen, you were talking about one of the things that you guys did that was really cool was you took meat.

42:32when you went to Vegas, you guys flew from Canada to Vegas, and you donated a bunch of meat to local shelters. Yeah. I mean, I think that's amazing. I mean, you did that out of the goodness of your own heart because you're really good people, and you flew down. What organization was it that you gave it to? It was actually Salvation Army in Vegas. We always follow them, and we like to give stuff. We have a lot of extra. And we've seen that they had a meat shortage. And we had an abundance. So by us hunting and our hunters hunting, we had an abundance of meat. So we decided we'd bring a couple hundred pounds down to the shelter down there. And it fed, I think, 500 or 600 people. That's amazing. And when you think about it, you guys paid to fly that stuff from Alberta all the way down to Vegas and give it to those people.

43:23But there's still people that will disparage hunters because the way you got that meat is by shooting it yourself. We're crazy. It's a crazy thing. How many anti-hunters are doing stuff like that? Very few. For fellow man. Very few. I can see people saying, I'm not doing that. I'm not paying all that extra baggage. Most people wouldn't pay to have the meat shipped down there. You go through the extra. You're going to Vegas. You're going to Vegas. Who wants to haul meat to Vegas? People who want to or people who care about fellow man and helping. And that's what hunters are. That's hunters. you know I've seen it over and over again on my on my social media I I sell my bows or auction off my bows to help people who who need help hunters have the biggest most generous hearts of you know I guess I guess I can't compare to everybody for every other type of person but

44:19hunters man on my page been so giving so generous and give you know tens of thousands of dollars really just to help somebody they don't even know well I think people have a bad connection to hunters because in movies a lot of times hunters are portrayed as these rednecks who get drunk yeah and they go out shooting these animals and they're mean they don't care about them like like the hunter that killed bambi's mom you know like this is this is how people portray hunters in a lot of ways in in movies and cartoons and whatnot and you know unfortunately there are people like that in all walks of life you're gonna there's bad people and right and everything there's bad cops but if you think about how many cops arrest people every day and how few instances actually get into the news like of something going wrong what people don't think about is how many

45:12good cops there are out there it's predominantly good cops you think about how many you know how many firemen get praised for what they do you know they it's it's rare it's rare that people focus on the good aspect of things. People love to point out the flaws in one individual and attach that to the entire collective group of people that participate in the same thing. And that's, you know, that's what people do when it comes to hunters for whatever reason. It's very convenient. I mean, I've had people give me shit about hunting and then I go to their Instagram page and I see pictures of burgers and steaks. I'm like, you fucking dummy. You know what you're doing you're you're paying someone to do it for you yeah if you're eating protein that comes from animals somebody had to die well it's just a fact the way the way I see it too is uh

46:04I don't know it seems like hunters I think it's very appealing to be a self-sufficient not just man human yeah just to be somebody who can go out and say hey I'm gonna go and I'm gonna provide for myself. I'm not going to rely on anybody. I'm not going to rely on somebody to stock that supermarket to make sure there's something for me to buy or to make sure McDonald's has burgers. If I need to, I'm going to go out. I'm going to provide for myself. I'm going to survive out in the woods. I'm going to kill. I'm going to butcher. I'm going to process. I'm going to do the whole thing on my own. To me, that's appealing. Yeah. That's a big deal. When I came up, it was kind of a transition into a man. I felt like when I could do that, I was just like, that's part of becoming a man. Now I just see it. I think it's just part of becoming a person, you know, because

46:57I see women doing the same thing and I just think it's empowering. I think it's important. It's empowering and it gives us perspective that people who haven't done that or can't do that don't have. And even if you don't like hunting, grow your own vegetables. I mean, growing your vegetables you say group group your own balls no because it's great it's hard to grow your own balls you have the breed don't I guess you know but kind of say they haven't dropped that's that's that's what I say oh I say I see what you're saying yeah self-sufficiency is is very underrated there's a reason why all those prepper shows exist it's not just because people are worried about the world ending they want to know that they're okay without everybody else they They want to know that they're self-sufficient. And I think that when you have a meal that comes from an animal that you took from the wild yourself,

47:50that is a very intense connection. The food that I cook at home, when I cook food from an animal that I killed, that is a very, very different feeling than going to the supermarket and buying something that comes wrapped in plastic and then bringing it home and have no connection whatsoever to turn and look at these animals, Rick. Yeah, right here all these animals around the field. This is where most people are getting their food from You're getting your food from these animals that are wandering around. Yeah, this is actually even better than most factory farmers I mean way better these things are out. They're actually eating some grass. Yeah, they're wandering around and this like but still That's not running through the mountains. Yeah, it's not nature. No, well We're doing is we're dipping our toes into the wild and then we come back with me

48:37But what I was going to say is you talked about providing for your family. I mean, I think it's important. You put your plate full of meat on the table and your wife and kids who don't hunt, you know, and you say, your kids know, Daddy went out, this is a bear he killed. Yeah. We're eating it. That's a big deal. It is a big deal. It's a good feeling. It's a feeling that's very difficult to describe. You can't recreate it. It doesn't come any other way. The only way you get that feeling is by going out into the wild and getting an animal, killing it, taking care of it yourself, cutting it up, you know, and cooking it, and then eating it. And it's a weird connection to food that you don't get in any other way. And I never got until I hunted. I never felt like that about the food that I cooked, ever. Yeah, because you've only been hunting now for what? Since 2012. So three years?

49:32Yeah, my first hunt, not even the third year. My first hunt was in November of 2012, so it's not quite even three years. You know, and I see, I put up a picture of your bear today, so you've probably got a lot of hate, by the way. More love than hate, believe it or not. The tide has turned. It's because of these conversations and these arguments where people have to realize, like, you're not beyond criticism for your own life. And you're pointing this ignorant finger at people for hunting, hunting ethically, legally, responsibly, morally, doing the right thing, putting in the hours to practice, making sure that these animals are killed in a humane way. you're not doing that when you're going to McDonald's. You're just not. You are participating in this gigantic factory farming system where these animals are penned up in these horrible ways and you're buying food from them

50:28and you think that you're morally righteous and that you're beyond criticism and it's foolish. And it's part of that disconnect that we were talking about with food. I don't think eating another life and not understanding that you're eating another life is even remotely healthy. And it's one of the reasons why these people that are anti-hunters that also eat meat are so childish. The reason why they behave so childish, they say things like, I hope someone hunts your family. And then you look on their fucking Instagram page and it's filled with dead animals. Filled. Filled with chicken cacciatore. Would that come from a fucking chicken plant, you douchebag? No, it didn't. Chicken tree? Yeah. Did someone pluck it? Yeah, they plucked it. They plucked it with a fucking machine. It was dead. Yeah. Had his head cut off. But, yeah, no. It's just unhealthy. It's nice that we can do it.

51:23It's nice that, you know, some people have jobs that require a lot of time to take care of their family. And they have a lot of, I mean, you shouldn't be required to go out and get your own meat. but I think it would do a lot of people who do eat meat a world of good to understand where your food actually comes from because most of us are completely ignorant of it and this is coming from my own personal experience I didn't grow up a hunter I didn't start hunting until I was 44 years old so it's or 45 I guess I didn't know you know I kind of I knew that there was something wrong like my my thoughts on it were always that like this just feels weird to just I knew that there was always some strange disconnect that I was sort of peripherally aware of did you so did you have an opinion on hunters did you have a negative opinion on hunters before you became

52:14quote one of us no I never had a negative opinion I've been watching hunting shows for a long time I always fished yeah you know I've been a fisherman since I was a young kid and um you know I used to fish every day when I was real young before I got into martial arts I loved fishing and I would eat my own fish and I always I always felt it was very satisfying to catch a fish and then cook it for dinner and then feed my parents and my my sister I feed them the fish I caught I loved it it's very satisfying but you know I didn't have anybody to take me hunting I didn't know I didn't I didn't know where to turn you know and until uh I went hunting with Rinella I'd just been thinking about it for the longest time and talking about it and trying to figure out how to go about doing it but you know I'm busy it's hard for me to venture into new things like that and I feel like in that

53:07way a lot of people can relate yeah most people that are listening a lot of comments like that yeah people want to get into it or or because they've heard us talk on the podcast they got their first bow and now they want to transition into becoming a hunter you know it's appealing But it's a big process. I mean, it's not impossible, but it takes time for sure. Well, there's some outfitters that will specialize in that, like Mike Hawkridge from Big Country Outfitters, the guy I shot my moose with. He's done a lot of that where he'll take someone who's never shot an animal before. They might not have even ever shot a rifle before, and he'll take them through all the steps. He'll show them this is the safety. This is how you put a bullet in the chamber. This is what you want to make sure that, you know, the gun is resting on your shoulder.

53:53He'll take them through all the steps, gun safety, the whole deal. Teach them how to fire the gun. Teach them where to hit on the animal. Teach them how to pull the trigger, you know, how to breathe. And then, you know, take them out and try to get them to harvest their first animal. Well, that's, to me, you know, so this is like, I guess, that next level. But that's one reason why I love coming up here with John and Jen. because for a bow hunt this is a great first like beginning type bow it's still super intense but it's it's more controlled in that you're not going to have a long shot it's generally going to be pretty close there's a number of animals so you're going to have opportunity and so I like to promote this I like to be up here with a lot of new hunters I like to bring people I've shared you know now two years with you watched you kill bear watch you go from not

54:43ever having killed anything with a bow to now have killed three black bear with your bow. And that means a lot. For me personally, that means, I mean, I didn't kill a bear on this trip. I hunted one day last night. No big deal. All I know is I see a camp full of people who have never bear hunted. I see you. I see guys who are just so excited to have their, hopefully taste their first hint of success in the bear woods. And to me, that means 10 times more than if I would have killed a bear on this trip. and that's this hunt is I think a perfect uh precursor to a long bow hunting career because it sets you up for success and uh that's that's why I love it up here yeah well one of the reasons why this place is so packed up here is because of you your your social media presence and because of this this passion that you have for spreading hunting and letting people know uh first of all

55:35letting people know how great John and Jen are how awesome their outfitting business is it's just It's like if you couldn't pick a better place to be as far as the quality of the people. I mean, John and Jen, their family are amazing. They're just so cool. And this place that they have is just so special. I mean, even when we're just driving around. There's a biohunting right there. Oh, wow, yeah. When we're just driving around and we're, you know, looking at the woods like, God, it's so beautiful up here. Yeah. It's just, it's an amazing place. And that passion that you have for bowhunting is what leads all these people to this camp. I mean, everybody at camp yesterday had keep hammering hats on and ramp it up shirts on. I mean, they're all like Cameron Haynes disciples. And that message that you're spreading is very positive and infectious. And I've seen it like last year.

56:29I mean, this year, we left before this current group. We got there before them, and we're leaving before they've had success yet. But they've seen a lot of bears. These people saw bears for the first time in their life, and they had these looks on their face. Like, Jen and I drove by this guy named Randy yesterday, and he was telling us, I saw five bears. Five bears came near the... And this dude had saucer eyes. Because he's out there in the woods by himself, sitting in this tree stand, and these bears are all around him. and he's just mesmerized by this experience. That's intense. Yeah, it really is. So there's a camp full of guys just like that who, you know, one of them, Ed and Kay Westbrook are up here, and I think Ed, you know, he hasn't killed a bear yet, but I'm pretty sure he told John that already the hunt was everything he'd hoped it would be.

57:23He hasn't killed a bear, but just the camaraderie, the camp life, the discussions, the people. I don't know. It's all so positive. And I feel very proud just to be a small part of it. Well, you're a large part of it. And I think a large part of the quality of the people that are coming to these trips is because of you. It's because these people are fans of yours. And they like the way you carry yourself and the passion that you have for hunting. And I found that when people have passion for things, for anything, that passion is infectious. You know, I get into people that are really passionate about making cabinets. I like watching. I watched a guy make knives the other day online. I was watching this knife maker. He's hammering the steel. I don't want to make a knife. I'm not making any fucking knives. But he was into it. So you were into it. Exactly. His passion was infectious.

58:19People love when people are into things because we know that that feeling is a great feeling. The feeling of being really passionate about something is a great feeling and you have a deep passion a deep connection to bow hunting and I have it now too and I have it because of you that's awesome yeah I I loved it you said that I think last night we came in late last night to swan hills I think two in the morning maybe and you were still talking about just how much you love bow hunting two in the morning long day everything we've had a long week and still that excitement and that's yeah I love it it's amazing it's it's very it's very intense it's very primal it's very rewarding and it's very very exciting you know it's it's it's also there's a lot of discipline involved keeping yourself calm when you're at full draw on an

59:11animal and you know this is the moment you know this is the moment you've been practicing this This is the moment you've shot thousands and thousands of arrows over and over again. And in that moment of releasing that arrow when you're practicing, you're not thinking about anything else other than that arrow hit that target. And there's a very zen quality to that that I think a lot of people aren't aware of. So even if you don't want to hunt, get into archery. Archery is an amazing discipline and it's an amazing practice. It's like a meditation in a lot of ways. Yeah, it is. Like that shirt that you sell. I love that shirt. The depressed face plus archery equals a smiley face. Happy face. Yeah, it's pretty simple. That's the math I'm good at right there. Yeah. Well, I do want to say, so next year we're going to do the same camp again, and it's just amazing.

60:06And even guys who have killed bear before, this isn't just for a first-time type bow hunt, because I've killed a lot of bear, and I still live for this hunt. and what I do I like I like getting on the ground you know as you know that's kind of what people who like first-time hunters I think it's a good idea to get up in the tree stand watch the bear come in see how they react learn how to sex them which means determine whether they're a boar or a sow that takes a little bit of practice so it's a good idea to get up in that stand and just kind of get into the bear hunting mindset you know we come out from this busy life all of a sudden you're in the bare woods, planting the bare woods, and it's just, it is so new, so intense. It's, it's a big deal. So, um, but once you've done that, we, I like hunting on the ground.

60:50Um, I like being eye to eye with these things and there's always, there's going to be a risk. There's, there's a risk in everything. Um, but I just, I, I feel like, I feel like that's living, a little living on the edge a little bit. It's kind of my motif, I guess. And it's, uh, it's, It's a whole different deal being on the ground, huh? Yeah, it's very intense. There's very rare moments that you get in life where you can be... Jen and I were nine yards behind. I mean, this bear was behind us. Was it even nine yards? I think it was a bit closer. Yeah, probably closer than nine yards to a predator, an apex predator. North America's, you know, bears are at the top of the food chain out there besides people. And the only reason why we're at the top of the food chain is because of all the things that we described, the practice and archery. The weapon. The weapon.

61:46You know, there's a rare moment to be there with these animals. And there's something cool, even besides the hunting them, just being there and watching them. Yeah, that close. We watched them fight yesterday. One boar was chasing the other boar away, and they... They'd fucking chase each other through the woods. And that wasn't Sasquatch? No. And that wasn't a death moan? No, Sasquatch was... That sounded different. No, it's different. Well, he's different all the time because he's not real. Gotcha. Okay. You can come up with a different sound for Sasquatch any day. I mean, you can make him sound like Woody Woodpecker if you wanted to. Maybe that's what he really sounds like. We don't know. We'll have to. Let's check in with Les. Yeah. But the point is that the experience is awesome regardless of the hunting. The hunting makes it even more awesome. It compounds the awesomeness.

62:36Just being out there, I know we're joking around about it. It's just great being out there. But it really is great just being out there. But the goal is always to get an animal. Yeah, that's why we're here. Well, the goal, I guess, I mean, I didn't get one this trip. I killed one a couple weeks ago. but so I still feel I still feel satisfied you know I mean obviously I wanted to kill a bear but I'm not just going to kill a bear just to kill a bear I want to kill the right bear but for me I like I like getting on the ground I like being close I like you know I had experiences where I had a bear right up a tree straight above me and I just had my knife there and uh that's that's the type of stuff I remember yeah no animal was harmed in the making of that experience that's memorable to me still. Well, we showed up and there was a bear asleep in the tree. Yeah. The bear had climbed

63:26the tree and was just chilling up in the tree. And, you know, we don't know how it got there. It could have been a large bear chased it up a tree, which is really common. Because there's some enormous bears out here. And when they get to like 500 pounds, can they still try to climb trees? Yeah, they'd have a hard time climbing a tree. At that weight. But up to 300 pounder could fly right up there. Maybe a 500 would be tough. There's some that John and Jen have seen out here they're eight feet plus yeah the biggest one they've got is more than eight feet bigger than grizzly yeah I mean that's a gigantic black bear but that's that's what's walking around these woods and one thing that's crazy about bear especially sitting on the ground you cannot hear these things they don't have hooves like a deer and elk that are breaking

64:09sticks and whatnot they have soft pads I mean I've sat and turned around and right behind me I'll make sure our bag is still back there, but right behind me is a bear. I had no idea it was there. And they are so quiet and can just sneak right up on you. They are. They're like black ghosts out there in the shadows of these thick woods. It's intense. It's awesome. It's amazing. And, again, the food that you get from it is delicious. I've argued with people to death about this. They say bear is bad to eat. you really don't know what you're talking about. You can find bear that can taste a little funky if they've been eating a rotten carcass or something like that. That's all they've eaten for like a few weeks. But most of them, their diet is filled with a lot of different stuff. Besides eating ground nesting birds and any other animal they catch and kill.

65:05They eat a lot of roots and a lot of vegetables. Grass. They find grass. A lot of grass. Berries. Berries. apparently I haven't had this before but what everybody says is that bears in the fall when they find a berry patch and they stock up on berries they'll eat nothing but berries for weeks it's the most delicious meat in the world Rinella says it's like the best meat you'll ever have in your life like it's incredible and it's just because their body actually smells like blueberries their fat is blue like they get like a blue hue like a purple hue to their fat They would sell. So they sell grain-fed beef, right? Yeah. If you could sell blueberry-fed bear, now that would be good. And again, what you were saying before about bears, people not seeing a lot of bears, it's one of the reasons why they get angry at you for eating them.

65:56They think that there's something wrong with eating something that you don't eat all the time. But people have been eating bears forever. It's just, it doesn't happen in Los Angeles. You know, it's just rare. They don't have a commercial presence as meat. So, you know, you can buy venison at a lot of restaurants. Venison is not out of the... People understand that people hunt and kill deer because it's the most popular animal to hunt in America. People see deer all the time. All the time. Yeah, it's normal. And a lot of times people get mad because, you know, if they live in overall populated areas... You were just telling me that you knew there was a story near you where a guy died. Yeah, no, another vehicle hit a deer on the road just like this. deer flew up and went right in through a cargo van's window killed the driver 37 years old that

66:42happened back home so yeah people get mad because deer they hit deer they kill a deer but they screw up their car yeah like damn deer well if you live in an area that has ticks and deer that carry Lyme disease too it can be horrible uh I know a bunch of people that have done that they've gotten Lyme disease from from ticks another one Rinella got he got fucking Lyme disease too he got Lyme disease Giardia trichinosis. He's going for the big slam of diseases that you get from game animals. That's impressive. Yeah, some people go for super slams. They try to get all the North American sheep. Well, it's a good diet, too, for him. He's crazy. He's done a lot of wacky shit. You got worms, bacteria, and parasites living in you. You're not going to be overweight. That's true. You got a lot of stuff you got to feed. The kid is ripped, too. You got to give him credit for that.

67:36but um I think that in you know in closing we probably wrap this up but um I I just want to thank you for for being my mentor for this whole bow hunting experience it's been really really rewarding and I really really appreciate it man because without you I would have it would have taken me years and years and years and years to fuck it up well like I said it's been fun sharing it with you and watching the journey and being part of it it's uh it's very rewarding for me as well it's it's it's really rewarding for me to be able to talk about this and and then to see these guys in camp that have heard us talk about this yeah I mean a bunch of those guys that came to camp this week had heard our podcast before and we're real excited to come up here to hunt with john and jen because of that because they want in on this and you know they got in on it Yeah. And it's a limited amount of people.

68:31I mean, John and Jen work hard. Their family work hard. But there's only so many people they can accommodate. Yeah. It's just, there's not that much space in the woods, like, as far as, like, how many different areas they've cleared out to hunt. And not that many people that they have. It's all family business. I mean, we talk about a family business. Their children all work there. I mean, it's a total family business. So there's only a certain amount of people that they can accommodate. So if you're interested in this, what's the website, Jen? LiveInTheDreamProductions.com LiveInTheDreamProductions.com And you've got to get in on it as quick as you can because this year sold out just after last year's hunt was over. Yeah, and we'll probably do a couple camps like this, like we did this year. I tried to come in at the end of the week, the first week,

69:21and then beginning of the second week, do an overlap of two different weeks. And we just have a good time. So we'll probably do something similar. You can get a hold of John or Jen on Facebook, Instagram. You can get a hold of me, and I'll tell you how to make it happen. But I'm down for new bow hunters, new bear hunters, and just sharing this experience with as many people as I can. And if you're interested in archery, find a local archery shop. Almost everyone who is involved in selling archery equipment is an archery enthusiast. It's very difficult to not be an enthusiast once you get into it. And a lot of those places offer lessons. And if they don't offer lessons, they connect you with someone who offers lessons. Go there and learn how to shoot a bow and get some practice in. It's a great hobby to have.

70:12And even if you have no desire whatsoever to go hunt, it is a great hobby to have. And like I said, it's like a real form of meditation. It's spiritual. There's a spiritual aspect to watching an arrow fly towards a target. hit right where you want it to. It's, I mean, it's changed my life, so it's powerful. And I think these things, like whether it's the hunting aspect, the feeding, the satisfaction that you get from feeding yourself and feeding your family with this meat, and even archery itself, I think there's a primal reward system that's built in our DNA because for thousands of years, that's how people acquired food. As you said, we're not designed to sit in cubicles. Yeah. You know, we're designed to take on big challenges. Our bodies are designed. We can prepare our bodies and minds and spirit for the ultimate test.

71:01And this just gets us that much closer to why humans are designed the way we are. And if you follow Cam on Instagram, Cameron R. Haynes, you'll see this is not just something he does like a couple days a year where he takes a bunch of people out. This is something he lives all year round to prepare himself for. I mean, Cam is constantly updating his Instagram because he's constantly running and lifting, working out, and getting his body prepared to be able to take on the challenges of these tough hunts. Especially like the elk hunt that we're going on in September. It's not easy. You're climbing mountains and you're bringing back hundreds of pounds of meat if you're successful. and if you're successful, you're successful because you put in thousands of hours of shooting arrows and practice and without that, there is no success. And I think that's also a great thing

71:54that you provide. You provide a lot of inspiration to people because you live it. You're not, you're not just out there running your mouth, talking, trying to pump people up. You can do it. You're out there doing it and you're saying, come do it with me. I'm not a special person. you know you're not a special person we're just people that are out there doing it and you can do it too yeah well thank you thanks for uh this is kind of an impromptu podcast yeah I think it turned out pretty good it's great we're driving to the airport right now to uh to leave the dream and head back to the uh civilized nightmare yeah but uh it's been a great time and uh I had a I I had a blast. I can't wait to do it again next year. Good job. All right, brother. Bye, everybody. See you. Thank you, everyone, for tuning into the podcast. And thank you to our sponsors. Thank you to Ting.

72:46Go to rogan.ting.com and save yourself 50 bucks, you savages. Thanks also to Blue Apron. Blue Apron, yummy, delicious food that you can cook yourself very simply, quickly, and easily. Go to blueapron.com forward slash Rogan and the first two meals are free. So go to blueapron.com forward slash Rogan and check it out. Thanks also to on it.com. Go to O N N I T use the code word Rogan and save 10% off any and all supplements. All right, my friends, thank you so much for all the love. Bye bye. Big kiss.