Forrest Galante

00:02all right here we go 5 4 3 2 1 yes Hawaii man what's going on Joe I'm stuck man I'm really good really glad to be here I'm stoked - yeah nice to meet you yeah dude you were on naked and afraid sure was ah dude it's so it's so ridiculous like to say ridiculous is such an understatement see because they often times will have like an actual survival expert or a wildlife expert or someone who knows how to live in the woods sure and that was the idea with you to get a wildlife expert definitely I mean I'm I'm kind of a combo like I I practice primitive survival for many years you know means to get closer to wildlife like I just got back from the Amazon and we had to feed ourselves every day we had to build shelter blah blah and I don't do it like for fun I do it as a means to be out further and stay longer kind of thing but it's got to be a little bit of a conscious effort right

00:55like to have fun like fishing fishing and you know putting up shelter and stuff it's got to be like kind of cool to live like that for a little bit it's it's human nature you know like we we intrinsically want to hunt things and fish things and build a shelter and survive and so it's totally fun I think it's like to your core it's fun you know I mean you just feel it like you know that you're doing something that's like primal human nature you have the Amazon fishing clips that you have on your Instagram page it's crazy like you just throw a cast out there and you were catching a big fish like instantly bonkers like I fished a lot of places I'm really into fishing and spearfishing and every Jo I'm not getting every single cast was a fish a peacock bass are piranhas every cast and and where we were in the Amazon super remote like not a lot of people go there I'm sure those

01:40fish have never ever seen a lure never seen a hook before and it wasn't like sport fishing it was like okay let's go catch ten fish in other words take ten cast and we have enough food and that was that and it was amazing does it make you think of what the ocean must have been like before people it up of course I mean of course as a biologist that's like all I can think about because I was in Hawaii recently and we did some snorkeling and when you're swimming around with the goggles on looking down at the ocean one of things is kind of shocking is how few fish there are I know like you think this should be like team with life you're over these reefs and you see like three or four fish or a fish or something like that it's so weird I mean there's there are these pockets left in the world that are completely untouched and it's like as soon as you get into one you can see it

02:27you're like this is what it used to be like everywhere and it's like humans haven't had an impact I don't you know I don't want to disparage anyone in Hawaii but I don't think there's anywhere in Hawaii like that because it's also accessible yeah and it's just you know I've been fortunate to see a couple of these pockets and they're just booming with stuff and it's like this is what it could be yeah I mean I guess that's like what it must be to just be in the Amazon itself as well right your journey jungle not just the rivers and the lakes or whatever's out there but the actual jungle itself it's it was incredible the jungle there so we were in Colombian Amazon and like talk about untouched by people there's been this kind of ongoing going conflict in Colombia for many many years so we were the first Westerners to go there in over 60 years so the village

03:12we flew into that literally never seen white people before and then we went 200 kilometers from that so like middle of nowhere they won't touch you so yeah hair because their hair was very dark and very different and like I'm not particularly fair but just to touch like the hair and see the blue eyes and stuff they were just love friendly super friendly like the culture was very stoic like there wasn't a lot of smiling or crying you know there wasn't like a lot of emotional exchange but straight away they came and greeted us like shook hands you know said hello it was really cool Wow you know how do you set something like that up do you have like a liaison that they're like acts as a go-between between you and the tribes yeah so we did in this case have one guy who communicated I speak Spanish Spanglish I guess and they they all speak Spanish from back in the day so we

04:00set it all up it's part of the wildlife stuff that I do we literally flew a dc-3 a World War two cargo plane into this cocaine dealers airstrip my god that's how we got there I mean like mind-blowing stuff current cocaine dealer a former former former yeah well you know DVD it's still Colombia exactly um so yeah I was that one was really cool really remote how crazy is that they learned Spanish from people who came over on boats from Spain it just stuck isn't that nuts and took over the whole like Regis yeah the whole world and and Sears this tribe in the middle of the Amazon that has this language from another continent well and Brazil right from Portugal right it's really incredible when you stop and think about I mean we well it's it's incredible but it's also a part of it's a little sad like wouldn't you have loved to have heard what their original

04:49language was oh what it sounded like well they did so it's funny because when they didn't want us to understand what they were talking about they would switch to their native Indian language so they still had they were bilingual a community of twenty five people that have never left and they're bilingual wow that's amazing now with their native languages what what is it it's an Amazonian Indian dialect I'd honestly don't even they might have said the name but I don't recall what is the name of their tribe also I'm not even sure they're they're so isolated they're unaware of what country they live in they don't even know that they're in Colombia really really they're just like to them they're Amazonian they're not Colombian Ecuadorian Brazilian they're they're Amazonian whoa yeah you know they just stay like they are they stay and the village we were in is literally I think

05:38it's all over 200 kilometers from the next next village of 15 or so people and they don't have fuel they don't have motors you know they just in this pocket and they just substance live and they're all barefoot right yeah do they have those crazy splayed out feet big feet you know they're they're not very big people they're like small Indian people but really big kind of useful feet and the way that you know they could run up and down trees and climb stuff I mean it was unbelievable like so much more athletic than you could imagine imagine right they've been doing that their whole life their whole lives yeah now when like when I say splayed out feet what I'm talking about is that people that walk barefoot in the jungle for long periods of time with their whole life their toes spread out and their feet almost look like a hand no way I did not like pay enough attention that

06:27might have been the case but I didn't know that their feet exactly yeah is kind of weird things stare at dudes feet yeah for sure but um yeah Steve Rinella who's a good friend of mine told me about that he was in Guyana and is the same thing and they are got some pictures and videos of these peoples feet but look at these guys up there whoa oh no I didn't notice anything like that yeah this is the that's uh how do you say that hoorah hoorah knee hoorah knee hoorah knee sounds right hoorah knee you think we're on E hoorah knee Indian splayed feet so it's very strange like it's the kind of the opposite of what happens to women when they Jam their feet into those little pointy shoes right where they get the the toes kind of smoosh onto each other la fée yeah it's horrible instead of that they're all like crazy spread out what in the is going on there but guys like this hands I think

07:20would yea the tops hands but the bottom is like would feet but that's that's got to be like what our feet are supposed to be probably right right yeah thick ass toes that actually have muscles in them that move that you can use like a tool like your yeah yeah so when these guys just can climb up trees with them so they grip the the side of the tree with their feet like a hand oh I mean I didn't notice like I say the feet just like that specifically but the way they could like everything's covered in mud down there right it's all wet it rains every day and they could run up and down these tree trunks like to get up and down the village and here's me and my crew with our Awkward cameras and stuff and we're slipping and sliding and falling over and like they're they're literally like what's wrong with these people why can't they walk we must have looked like infants today right and you

08:03guys probably have like boots on and of course he and up and oh yeah we're wearing you know muck boots and my one buddy's got waders on and you know we think we're all hard and cool because we got all this gear and they're just like running around in shorts barefoot it is so fascinating when you see people that don't have contact with the outside world like I'm sure you're aware of that recent story the missionary was killed by the people in North Sentinel island absolutely which is one of the weirdest places because they've branched off from Africa with 60,000 years ago or something like that right when you're around these people like what what do they do if they get injured so funny you ask that because we we kind of had that same question right and they don't leave they stay in the village they have a shaman at the village who blessed us with a crazy

08:51green powder and that's a whole nother story but they have a shaman and he is their doctor however he has no access to any Western medicine so it's only his learn and knowledge handed down through generations plus jungle powders and whatnot and and that's it so we actually we spent two days we had a medic with us doing like kind of village help if you will everybody had ringworm everybody had respiratory infections there are a lot of lady problems in the village that are medic had to deal with I mean there was a lot of health issues and you don't even realize it write something down before I forget I'm sorry totally unrelated no good there's a doctor named Peter Hotez that's come on the podcast now to follow up when you start talking about the people in the jungle he was he's actual is he specializes and infectious diseases and jungle and tropical climates and he's like everyone's

09:46infected with something everyone everyone he'd have a heyday down there yeah I'm sure it's probably been yeah but the so when these people have ringworm and all these different infections do they treat it do they have like some naturopathic cure or some I think it's kind of a fifty-fifty like a lot of it they don't treat because it's just part of everyday life like when I say everybody had ringworm I meant everybody had it so I don't think there was any kind of treatment or cure it was just kind of part of it part of them but other things you know the the the witch doctor or the shaman was trying to treat and then we kind of went in and we had like medication for ringworm so we dewormed everybody and with the shamans blessing and he was like super excited to have Western medicine in the village and would use like lamisil or something like that I couldn't tell you I think it was not it

10:34wasn't topical I think it was like a ver mocs like a pill that you take that kills the kills the worms mm-hmm the weird thing about that is like don't you you leave and then they're gonna get it again right I mean there's only so much you can do right yeah totally that we were having the same dilemma and it was like do we interfere because we're from the outside world do we help and we talked to the shaman through our translator and he said please help please help so we gave including him everybody this dewormer but you know they'll just come back yeah and also they probably don't understand the consequences of taking some antibiotic that's gonna do some weird to your whole biome right right and these are all that stuff - it's such a moral dilemma you're there and you're like I want to help do i is it helpful is it hindering our medic was like it's

11:22undeniably gonna help you know they need this and so we go we went for it and it was you know it seemed to help everybody felt fine but we were only there a couple more days before we left so who knows Wow when you're talking about ringworm like these guys covered in it they have big patches of it like what's it like feet and legs had big patches of it yeah yeah and this is a if you don't know that's the same that's athlete's foot oh I didn't know that ringworm and athlete's foot of the same kind of funk oh yeah that's why they people tell you to pee on your feet but I think that's the idea behind it is that you're somehow or another you're killing the bad bacteria and you you piss on your feet and you have athlete's foot that might be horseshit maybe yeah with me you always have to check yeah I definitely give that a little look-see but it's a real common thing with

12:18jiu-jitsu gotcha so guys all the mats yeah it's real common so just guys get it and there's people really up where they like put bleach on it and a bunch of different things to try to kill it and winds up getting worse and also it up all the natural skin flora jock itch athlete's foot ringworm or all types of fungal skin infections known collectively as teeny teeny yeah tanea they're caused by fungi called derma TRO fights that live on the skin hair and nails and thrive in warm moist areas the jungle so it seems like they're just gonna get it that's just what it sounds like you know but with what do they do for it I didn't see them treating that at all and when we pointed it out they're like yeah yeah we know about it you know they were more concerned with things that were like dire like there was an infant maybe not even maybe three years old and he was hacking up a lung

13:09and he was asthmatic according to our medic so my our medic gave them like an asthma medication and he just said you know if he has an attack where he can't breathe give him this and like you know to be super real with you when we walked away our medic was like I doubt he'll live to see adulthood oh man yeah and were you giving him inhalers did you give him I'm not sure to be honest what it was that he left with him and what about like injuries what if they break a leg or something like that what do they do I don't think anything yeah it was anybody you gotta think these people are climbing trees they constantly fall get bitten by stuff there's tons of venomous snakes out there it's wet it's muddy it's slippery they're building stuff out of very rudimentary tools I mean it's it's nuts they have to get injured it's so interesting that we have this understanding of medicine and doctors

13:59and hospitals but that's probably pretty recent oh of course yeah I'll tell you a story Joe I was in my anmar early late last year and we're down there filming this thing and this kid like 22 year old crab fisherman gets bitten by a crocodile Oh croc grabs him by the arm grabs him by the thigh and death rolls so it breaks the arm in like I don't know 15 places compound fracture the real deal I can show you pictures I'll blow your mind and we hear about this and we're minutes away we just it's kind of one of the similar situations where the first Westerners to be there in a long time we go bombing over at high speed can we get there and the mom is like off mourning the death of her child but her child is sitting there still alive like they have written him off and it's mom is mom is literally mourning the death of her child and he's lying there conscious but

14:50like in total shock fortunately just because of the situation we had a speedboat everything else we bandaged him up you know Ted tried to keep his arm stable and his leg stable put him in our speedboat it was six hours by speedboat to a village that had a or to a hospital really and so he got there and his life was saved but I asked we asked the the people in the village what were you going to do and they're like there's nothing we can do Wow so he was just going to bleed out or go septic and that was the end of it oh what a rough way to go right how did he get away from the crocodile I don't know I think he was just hitting it or hammering on it he was crab fishing in the water and it came up and grabbed him rolled a few times and at some point he escaped how he even got back in the bow made it back to the village I have no idea because his leg was shattered his

15:36arm was shattered it was brutal and it was a canoe you know it wasn't like he had a little motor or a wheel to drive canoed back one of the most disturbing stories I ever read was these guys were kayaking in an African river and the guy in front of him got grabbed by a crocodile and that it went under and like it like plunged like a bobber as the crocodile pulled him out of the bottom of the kayak yeah I'm like it's awful imagine being the guy behind him and just watching ya and knowing that you're pretty much helpless did you see any Jaguars or anything I've never seen a Jaguar I've seen a lot of line I'm from Africa I don't know if you knew that but so I've seen a lot of lions growing up my family did safaris and then I've seen you know mountain lions here in California leopard stuff like that I've never seen a wild Jaguar really and when you were in the Amazon I

16:24think they're really elusive I know there's areas that are our hotspots all of the locals were very nervous and kind of knew about them like you know I went out for bush walks at night and stuff and I just go me and one guy with a camera and they were like whoa be careful like peligroso you know very dangerous don't do it but her Grosso means very danger Grosso likely gross danger yeah and so we just go and you know I'm not trying to act like we were tougher than them or anything we would love to have seen one but they were very aware of them so they were there we just didn't happen to run into one sort of like mountain lions exactly yeah like they say that mountain lions are like if you live in a place that has them you know Wyoming or Colorado or something like that they know where you are right right you they might be around you all the time and you

17:10might rarely see them exactly they'd be driving home you see one skittering into the into the bush there was a nuts video I think it was from the LA area did you ever see it where the security cams picked up this mountain lion that was walking through this like very residential neighborhood and you'd see like people would walk by and then 30 seconds later he'd like tip out of the shadows and then dip back in and then the next set of people would walk by and nobody had any clue he was there that's crazy that giant predator can move around like that right yeah so when you're there like but what would you have done if someone got bit by a venomous snake or a spider or some point out did you guys have any anti-venom where you prepared for something like that I mean that's my department right like as the wildlife guy that's that's kind of my my department is make sure nobody gets

17:52bitten make sure nothing like that happens and we handled very very many venomous snakes and caught anacondas and all kinds of great stuff we did have like my main camera guys name's Mitch he got absolutely lit up by these wasps one night and we all were we got like 12 14 stings each but I look back in the canoe at one point and his eyes are just super swollen he's bright red he's sweating I'm like Mitchie okay he's like his throat started to close up he was having an allergic reaction so we had to hit him with antihistamines and I'm not actually sure if the medica administered the EpiPen or not but he was like we're in the middle of jungle were six hours from a village that's then a full day's travel by a charter plane from a hospital I mean middle of nowhere and and his throat's closing up and think that's why we take a medic with us thankfully we had this emergency

18:40Medicaid administered the antihistamines and Mitch was okay but these things do happen do you ever like like while you're on these crazy adventures do you ever out there going this is the last one no no no whatever no way man I love it I live for it Wow how long you been doing this I mean like for TV for Animal Planet three years I guess but to go on X the reason I got into that and doing it for TV is because I've been doing it like my whole life I grew up in Zimbabwe my mom was a bush pilot so when we weren't on safari she was like flying us these remote place in the middle of bush and we were going out on safari and like as long as I can remember this has been what I do now when you go on safari you and those open jeeps walking safaris whoa yeah what are you doing we take a four five eight an elephant gun okay put it on your shoulder it helps walking safari damn

19:33man only during the day right yes I cannot move at night and what do you do when you're confronted I mean I've had some pretty close calls my wife Jess who's here with me I saved her from a hippo oh yeah we've had some pretty close calls man one of my the scariest pictures ever saw was this guy this African guy running down the street and the hippos chasing them and you look at the size of the hippo and you look good Christ that thing is huge they Joe they are these scariest animals on earth like interacting with a hippopotamus they're so erratic they're so unpredictable if they're feel threatened at all I mean they're just this video is bananas this is this guy's on a rope motorboat and the hippo is swimming after him like a torpedo so this is where I'm from this isn't Bob way really yeah so is this common that they swim that fast they can move I mean this that this is uncommon

20:24to have one chase the boat and come that close but uh big it is man yeah so when you've had these Close Encounters what do you do you shoot at the air I shoot at the ground scare them away fortunately I've I've never had to put an animal down but I know people that have a picture look at that's it that's the one what in the how fast is that big bastard run I don't know you'd have to look up the exact speed but definitely at top speed definitely faster than human but they don't have the maneuverability you know you can kind of duck and dodge behind trees just don't run a straight line exactly exactly that my team yeah yeah what does a person run a rhino Bruns 31 Jesus Christ Jesus a cheetah can read 75 miles an hour huh I thought it was like 50 uh yeah 75 a crocodile's almost as fast as the hippo yeah they're good three miles an hour for a croc that be

21:22for sprinters around 21 22 maybe yeah that's also a sprinter right in a sprinter not a doughy white guy like us Jesus Christ so you just if you're chased by a hippo is there a move that you do do you just have to go left and right zigzag yeah maneuverability get so like when we got chased we got behind a termite mound and then it kept going straight behind termites yeah nothing says safety like terma it's my god dude that's so crazy Matt is that this so that's the scariest thing in Africa in terms of like interacting with human beings you know what the scariest thing in Africa is mosquitoes oh yeah right like all all stuff you can see all the big wildlife you can kind of feel it out and you put your self in the bad situations mosquitos there's nothing you know I mean you just do about it yeah my buddy Justin Wren he runs fight for the Forgotten charity

22:21they build wells for the pygmies okay and he's been bitten he's got malaria three times yeah and one time he got it like he didn't even get bit again the malaria just returned live so it must be in some way systemic I think I believe it is I don't I don't never had it knock on wood my grandfather had it but I know that it's it wrecks you for life like it can come back you can get it again yeah it stays with you I think that's his situation and he's a professional athlete he's actually a fighter for Bellator ease one of their uh heavyweight contenders damn yeah and he said that it's affected his performance no I don't think it has I think I think he's been okay with it you know he received treatment but it's definitely wrecked him on three separate occasions where he was you know basically on death's door right right and one of them was in he's flying back

23:10damn you know and he's just sweating and just rotting out in the inside awful so you want to ask what scares me that's it yeah like I would I'll take a hippo a snake a croc leopard anything over that yeah malaria is terrifying yes a malaria is killed more people than anything ever really yeah malaria is killed half the people that have ever died oh my god that's insane just make sure that's right there might be too it sounds good I think it's real I think I think we actually have googled this before the malarious literally killed 50 percent of all the people that have ever died that's insane yeah it's not to me people were worried about so many different things you should be worried about mosquito exactly well apparently they're trying to genetically engineer mosquitoes to to be void of yet avoid of malaria and they hybridize right so my understanding is the way that it's done

24:04is they genetically engineer the males to reproduce with the females which are the malaria carriers and then the offspring of that generation can no longer carry malaria yeah okay malaria killed half the people who have ever lived that is bonkers it's a myth what's up yeah what if I don't kill it says like five and a half million people on average per year every year for all of human history and that's not a thing it kills half a million a year I think the real numbers like I said that would have to be five and a half okay so it's just one of those things that people say yeah I like it I should probably shut the off but what else is new so how many people have they killed oh okay we'll go with a lot so other other doesn't mean this out like typhoid and isn't there like a case of typhoid in California now right yeah yeah yeah well we've got some weird

24:57situations in this country with you know measles returning and polio returning all these bola came in yeah what the hell outbreaks expands in LA and Long Beach jeez cool thanks for having me down here Joe congratulations it was my hand was sweaty man I sure that are different but it's different it's similar but different it's not typhoid it's typhus so hopefully born disease that can be treated with antibiotics yeah I'm terrified of Lyme disease to have you add lime no but I have a gang of friends that have had it and it wrecks them well you spend a ton of time hiking around out here yeah well California doesn't have much lime but East Coast it's horrific it's like everybody that spends time outdoors in the Northeast seems to get yeah and I don't know what you can do about that there was a vaccine that they were doing for a while but one of my friends her dad actually got Lyme

25:51disease from the vaccine huh like he didn't have it got vaccinated and wound up catching it from the vaccine I think they were like okay this sorry they had it for a while up geez yeah that's no fun yeah so when you were a kid you were you were doing this like you've been involved so this is like the family business sort of my family business is my mom's business actually was safari businesses so like like you say sit in the Land Rover see the animals kind of thing and they did a little bit of tourists walking safaris but then I grew up on a farm in the outskirts of Harare Zimbabwe and then whenever I wasn't in school I was on the running around barefoot catching snakes fishing yada yada and then when my mom wasn't booked up she had this little bush plane that she used for safaris and we just adventure all over Africa Wow so it's a great childhood that sounds

26:41amazing but terrifying I mean it's like one of those things where it's what you're used to right I found moving to the States at age 14 and like trying to find my like place in the world being this weird little private school kid from Africa way more terrifying than going to meet a tribe in the middle of the bush really for sure yeah why like I'll give you examples like I always carry a pocket knife on me right my first day here in the States I go to school pull my pocket I'm sitting in my like uniform so I went to a very proper English boarding school pull out my pocketknife start cutting my Apple 15 minutes later I'm in handcuffs I'm like what did i do what did i do I literally had no idea what I had done wrong because I had a knife at school everybody I had ever been to school with had a knife to cut their Apple like it was the standard thing so here I am with

27:26like police and you know guns and badges and they're throwing me in handcuffs and taking me out of the school on day one in America and I'm like this is the scariest thing I've ever seen and I didn't even learn until later that day that it was because I had a pocketknife and at no point did I think having a pocketknife was a bad thing so they didn't tell you no they just grabbed me there was like this whole thing like the knife went flying I was chained up and I was like what's going on what's going on and they're like you're in big trouble and ask why and it was like little culture shock things like that that to me were like something I'd done every day my whole life and now I'm like getting thrown in juvie for it kind of thing when you think back about that do you think that's just the consequences of being in a large population for sure yeah yeah I mean like we like I say I

28:10went to school every day with a knife there was no violence issues there was nothing like that but then you come here where you know there's stabbings and stuff like that and it's because you know we had a time I lived in a tiny country with a tiny population do you think that it's possible that I mean stupid but there's no way you could live like that over here I mean there's no way you can have kids with a bunch of knives no I don't know this culture I don't think so at all I think that would be terrible and I get it now as nobody talked to you about it before you left the house no my mom didn't know she's from Africa you know she's like here are your things here's my cool put it my sharpen it before you so you were doing these always doing these walking safaris you started out doing the driving ones and then eventually you start doing the walking ones my family business did

28:57walking safaris they didn't do hunting it was all photographic and we were in the Zambezi Valley so Zambezi River is one of the biggest rivers in the world so we do these walking safaris and then we did canoe safaris as well which is why I have so many hippo and croc stories because we'd be canoeing down the Zambezi River and then taking photographs and seeing wildlife that way wow what a crazy way to grow up and it was your relationship to wildlife this is so different than the average person yes country for sure it's very intimate like I I I feel like I have like regardless of being a scientist by trade I feel like I have a very intimate understanding of animals because I grew up completely surrounded by them now what other countries have you explored I'm over sixty countries now damn yeah so a lot all for wildlife work whether it's for the show that I do or for

29:45biology contracts before I did the show or just because like for instance when I got done with college I was like I had a little tiny little business start in college sold it and was like I'm gonna travel the world and try and photograph these animals and I went to 28 countries looking for wildlife did you have something to do with looking for the Tasmanian tiger yeah yeah I did know what do you think I think of all the extinct animals that have gone extinct at the hand of man given the range I don't know if you know this but the tasmanian tiger at one point range from Papua New Guinea all the way down to Tasmania so not just the island of Tasmania but thousands tens of thousands of miles I think given the range the frequency of sightings the amount of untouched habitats in Australia and Tasmania and Papua New Guinea where they just found the new dog species by the way they did yeah the

30:32Highland dog in New Guinea maybe a year ago now incredible looking animal like absolutely could there be a very small remnant population of thylacine tasmanian tiger hiding out in a isolated pocket of habitat I totally think it's possible and these sightings are they coming from credible sources so I did I did one expedition I've done two expeditions looking for thylacine and one of them I was literally talking to man who is the head Park Ranger for like the entire North Queensland so he's a scientist by trade a biologist by degree and he says I saw four of them whoa you know so this isn't like some crackpot drunk who's like yeah there are they're here you know this is a guy who is like myself a scientist a biologist and spends his life in the bush he knows every animal in that area he goes I saw four of them Wow so like how do you not like I get goose

31:18bumps talking about it cuz how do you not like take that as credible no that's about as credible as it gets well look at that cool-looking dog there it is what a freaky looking - the world's rarest and most ancient dog has been rediscovered in the wild so this New Guinea Highlander was thought to be extinct is that that's right yep Wow so this thylacine this area is where where they are has there been a concerted effort to find these things sort of I mean it's it's one of those things where like I would say the thylacine is like the icon of animals coming back from extinction for Australia right it's kind of like everybody knows about in Australia they're all care about it but where these efforts are is like outside of Sydney or you know what I mean it's it's close to home so there hasn't been a lot of expeditions really deep into look for them hmm and that's what I did

32:03so there's so much belief that the animal is still out there that the shoot it's the University in Cannes I'm blanking on the name of it right now the university itself put money towards funding to find it so when you have a credible institution like a university going here's money go and find this thing you've got to think and I'm not a big conspiracy theorist but you've got to think they have some Intel that says look we're not wasting our money to look for something that's not there we've heard something we've seen something we caught something on a trail camera let's prove it and so I actually teamed up with they caught something on a trail camera hard to say but what they did do is fund this expedition so myself and the University who's still ongoing with the research when it looked in this area in North Queensland where I went and how far deep did you go in 1,200 miles 1,200

32:51miles yep it took 14 hours driving and then hiking from there whoa yeah 14 hours on dirt road because this is the area where they've been sighted the most numerous this is where that sighting that I was talking about came from from the biologist as well as I think for other sightings the community up there is a place called Portland ODEs you could look it up I think it's 12 people and Wow live totally not like the Amazon off the grid but off the grid you know it's all like solar energy and build-it-yourself there's no power lines blah blah so it's just this small group of kind of like people in the middle of nowhere and almost everybody in that community has seen them so that's that's where we based it out of and then went deep from almost everyone in the community and no one's took in a photograph that they have cameras everybody's you know everybody's got a cell phone kind of

33:37thing but it's like it's all it's always the same story where it's like yeah it was there it was late at night by the time I reached in my pocket it it had gone off except for the biologist I was telling you about who said it ran around with his dogs he's out camping and he's like oh there's this red eye shine and my dog goes nuts and runs over there and then there's four thylacine jumping around with my dog like for like 15 minutes and he's like I'm trying to get a picture and you know that's like 300 yards away it's in the dark and without the flashlight and the phone and like yeah and so it's basically a hundred percent of this thing's alive I mean as a scientist you can never put that number but to me yes that's why I've done two expeditions and I plan on doing more I feel it's out there like it's a gut feeling that it's there did you ever see that there was a

34:20woman Defoe movie yeah hunter the hunter that's right and he goes and shoots the last one yeah it didn't really work right the movie was off it's very strange and there was like a scientific reason he had to find it or kill it or I don't know it was almost paying him wasn't it did someone hire him to do it but wasn't there a like he was a bounty hunter for the animal because it had some weird genome or I I don't remember it was a member there yeah so but that's how they died off right people hunting them put a bounty on them yeah that's how bad it was yeah when settlers came to Tasmania which was the last stronghold for him they were they were killing sheep and sheep farmers things and the government was like get rid of him you know put a bounty on him what year was this you'd have to cross-check it's been a while since I've read read up on that but the last ones died off in like the

35:08early 1900s right that's right the one is you think yeah they're all freaky looking animal there is one set of footage from it ever from the one in the Hobart to and it's you look at it's insane looking creature yes yeah just nuts you got that by the video - something playing oh so playing um yeah it's a freaky animal it doesn't even look real it looks like like a cross between a tiger and a dog or something and it's and it's kangaroo by genetics it's a marsupial it's got a pouch and it's just so weird stripes and that's a strange thing about Australia and that whole area is like how did what's this marsupial thing and why didn't that catch on anywhere else there it is look at him there's that freaky thing wait till you see that there's a shot where he kind of turns his face and and does like a yawn and you'll see he can open his jaw the way like a snake does to

35:53almost 180 degrees I mean it's it's bizarre yeah just swallow bullet coyotes are kind of like that - not quite so extreme but right when you see a coyote yawning you're like what right the look at that oh that's so great isn't that insane yeah it's like a crocodile almost yeah yeah yeah a strange animal man I'm I'm obsessed with him I'm totally fascinated by him yeah I hope you get a photo of these yeah me too I mean do they so I've in that area did you guys set up trail cams and we did 200 trail cameras Wow yeah and then the university that we partnered with who didn't go as remote as we did but they're still doing a big area I think they have 10,000 10,000 trails something crazy like maybe it's a thousand it's a huge number so what do you do with those how does that work so you do like a grid pattern right so you know how trail camera works motions activated blah blah so they just they

36:46literally here's the mountains here's whatever and they set out all these like undergrads and they're like place one every three hundred meters pointing you know in this direction blah blah blah blah and they just do a grid and they do that for a month two months whatever it is collect them all and then move to the next grid and then move to the next grid and just blanket the area and I think I could be wrong on this but I think the search that they're doing that University is going to be the most comprehensive trail camera survey ever conducted and so as far as you know they don't have a photo of one yet as far as we know but think of it this way again I'm not a big conspiracy guy but if you're if you're impersonating my tea when it's like my this price closest they have a there's a lot of these could be there's new one that just came out whoa see to me that's a mangy fox that's

37:34not a thioester No look at the base of the tails very thin it's carrying in an upward curve instead of straight like if you look at kangaroos tail it's very flat there's a lot of Fox problems in Australia where they're introduced could be wrong you know as a scientist I try not to get too excited when I see something that I'm like this is it but it's hard to tell because the way the grass is sure makes it look he's got stripes on his back looking like ah mm-hmm Wow a trail-cam has captured an image that is excited to esme knee and tiger hunters to the possibility the animal may roam freely across Australia Wow how big is that thing they're like coyote sized very similar to a coyote in size Wow yeah so um don't you think though that if they had definitive footage that they would release it to try to get more funding and dude the problem is footage isn't

38:23definitive anymore like two years last year I got a photo of a leopard in Zanzibar the first time in 25 years the animals declared extinct and we caught a video not even a photo a video of a Zanzibar leopard and took it up the chain and they're like until unless we have genetic proof the animal remains extinct so I think you know so the phone yeah yeah come on well so yeah I think that I think you know if the University had something they're trying to get enough data to really present a case as opposed to like you know throwing up a flag over something into one individual well is there a concern that's the a bunch of amateur wildlife hunters would go there what is this Jim there it is that's my library the leopard yeah Wow did you uh have you seen that photo or the footage rather of the Jaguar that they found in Arizona yeah yeah that's really interesting too

39:16right amazing they're starting to make their way up from Mexico it's such a weird region that because here's this huge Sonoran Desert that you think none of these tropical animals can make it across and for whatever reason Southern Arizona gets Jaguars and coatimundi and peccary and all these like tropical animals yeah what what the hell I don't know the answer what the hell's going on that all these rainforest creatures are making it through this thousand mile stretch of desert and into southern Arizona hardboard it could be acre for a cool cool places to visit yeah you know maybe they I mean maybe it's just like a natural instinct to roam and and your territory there he is yeah look at that thing amazing that's an incredible animal so beautiful and it's huge huge there-there 200-plus pounds right have a big aggressive cat what's bigger a Jaguar or a leopard

40:02leopard leopard yeah yeah and that's even bigger mm-hmm but it's a such a beautiful animal too and apparently they were all over North America Jaguars in time yeah like that area like Texas during the Pleistocene yeah interesting I didn't even know that but um when did they I mean they were pushed out of feel like that might not be true though I feel like they were they were more numerous in like Arizona and like the Southwest makes sense I mean you know we had so much megafauna here back in the day there would have been a lot of prey for them now because of the fact he spent so much time in the wild and you know and that you have this interest in these what would you call cryptozoology animals I'm not a crypto guy so just to be clear and nothing against crypto guys but I don't do Loch Ness or Bigfoot or anything I'm a true wildlife biologist so I only focus on wildlife so not to

40:55interrupt you but I'm just very very structured in the sense that I really only look for animals that we we have an understanding of right yeah right well yeah but the Bigfoot one is the the most compelling but also probably the most I think there's a mix there I think people believe that they've seen certain things you know it's it's do I think that there could have been large primates that we attribute to Bigfoot sure whether they're still here or not whether people have ever seen them I I'm so like not well read on that isn't it interesting though that if there was one it would probably be the most spectacular find ever absolutely but meanwhile we have chimps and bonobos right you know we have all these things that are real well because there's so much like lore and culture associated with it right and not just like our Western culture but like cave paintings

41:45of big hairy creatures and like everything I mean it would be like this mind-blowing discovery have you ever went and looked for the bondo ape no I know what it is but no no never gotten airborne there sure that's a real thing really yeah they've got skulls and hair samples and photographs and video and for people don't know what we're talking about two gigantic chimpanzee right like a six-foot tall chimpanzee and it's just nuts and it does walk a rack right sometimes yeah yeah there's a camera trap photo there's a guy named dr. Karl oh no he's not a doctor thing's name's Karl Harmon call Karl something Harmon is that Oman Oman crawl Oman and he's a it was a swiss wildlife photographer anyway set up a bunch of camera traps and he got one go on walking I mean it's it's freaky and there's some photos of these gentlemen that shot one near an airstrip huh and it's huge you don't know how big

42:40the the men are right they might be small and in front of them but it is without a doubt like one of the biggest chimpanzees you've ever seen since and yeah they have a crest on their head their skull has a crest like a gorilla huh yeah it has like the the bone of the skull picture that I'd love to see it I'm not not familiar with the anatomy of them yeah it's um it's really interesting because I think for the longest time they didn't think they're real is a part of that Michael Crichton book Congo okay remember there was a really terrible movie that yeah that's insane yeah that's one of them and that thing that doesn't look like force perspective you know what I mean it looks like they're right in front of them and that's one from the early 1900's I believe where these guys shot one and there were like what is this this is just giant chimp go did you

43:32see if you find the one of their it read above is the one that where it's walking right there yeah oh that's the show man walking and he's erect yeah he's erect and he's you know is he these people that one of one of the sightings they saw one walked by a truck like walk across a road they said it was the same height as the truck that's insane so they have like you know like a Toyota Hilux or something her head and it's literally the size the height like a six foot tall man but a giant chimp and I mean you know to go back to the Bigfoot thing you can totally see where we get that from right sure you look at this huge primate that's the size of a human being and your brain instantly goes it's mythological and I'm pretty sure that they didn't have photos of this thing until the 20th century like the late 20th century no kidding yeah that's amazing yeah it's a trip man this they

44:22nest on the ground like like really yeah yeah Wow and the locals have two different name for two different names for chimps they call them tree beaters and lion killers huh and the tree beaters are the ones that are up in the trees a smaller chimps sure and the lion killers are these big ones that live on the ground man apparently there's some either video footage or there was some eyewitness account of one of them eating a leopard no way so it was a dead leopard that they were eating whether or not they killed it or they found it but they were eating this regardless like to be a primate at the top of the food chain eating a big cat I mean that's nuts it's not would you ever think of going there and trying to find those things look yeah they're deep in there great yeah I think they're in a place called Billy Billy in the Congo that's what they think they are they've

45:16isolated a population of them they're really my mom just got back from the Congo and she still does like her own adventure stuff and she was saying it's just like she's been all over as well she's like it's mind-blowing like there's so much remoteness and unstudied area that there could be all kinds of things damn now what what kind of medication do you have to take if you're gonna go there because you have to take some anti malarial stuff dude I'm a pin cushion like I've had so many shots and pills and you know like preventative obviously I actually don't do malaria medication I just cover up because it messes with your brain I don't know if you know that like they say then the modern ones aren't bad but the Malarone like you have loose nations at night you have crazy sweats like especially if you're in hot Sun so I would rather be more focused especially if I'm working with

46:02reptiles or stuff like that that can you know envenomate me so I try to try to stay away from it and just cover up Wow is there a specific type of clothing that's like anti mosquito repellant clothing or anything like that I just do long sleeves and some bug spray and you do a mask as well no no that's silliness really it looks silly no I just do you know good old deep God that stuff's gotta be bad for to them it melts you like if you get it on like say these things it will melt the painting off the paint off of the headphones it's so strong it's probably worse in the mouth have you ever used a thermoset what does they call them is it called a thermos l I think this was called it's it's a device that heats up it's got like an element inside of it and like a little bit little canister of gasoline and you put these sheets and it releases this very fine mist onokay smell and mosquitos

46:58hate it no way yeah we used it in Alberta huh Alberta has very aggressive mosquitos when they're out yep when they're out they're out it's a clouds of them right yeah cuz you're only alive for like three months all right it's like Alaska you've been a last night it's the worst mosquitos I've ever seen crazy I pick you up yeah they're like there's size of pigeons and their family everywhere totally I went fishing with my friend Ari and we pulled up the the car and we got out of the car and we opened the car door and within seconds a swarm of mosquitoes was inside the car it's insane we were screaming like what the this is crazy it's like something out of a Stephen King movie like there's clouds and they III yeah that's why you asked me what I'm scared of it's that clouds of mosquitoes man well we're very fortunate we don't have malaria here in the United

47:43States yep absolutely that if it made its way over here somehow you know I am I wear this fabric you're talking about thermos l called hex oh yeah yes yes hex exactly and I work for a lot of reasons because I definitely feel it helps me get closer to wildlife but I've noticed mosquitoes do not like it really so that's that's what a heck suit is for people that don't know what we're talking about sure so it's this interwoven carbon grid that actually holds the body's electrical energy and capacity like the door of microwave oven like a Faraday cage right and so you you naturally emit electrical energy and then when you wear this clothing it's got this conductive carbon grid and when you touch the ground or something at grounds it releases all the energy so birds migrate you're losing yeah there you go now has it been proven that this stuff actually were I mean it

48:32has been proved that it has an effect on the electrical energy that you release but has it been proven that the animals can actually recognize that electrical energy with sir animals yes so we know that electroreception is certain laud life's capable of it birds use it to migrate sea turtles use magnetic poles to migrate they just discovered I believe 2014 that lobsters antennae have electrical detective sensors electroreception is the word so it's proven on some things not everything you know our understanding of animal behavior and animal adaptability is constantly growing so it's passive you know what I mean I wear it because it's a passive technology it's like I'm gonna wear a shirt anyway why not wear one that might or might not help so my feel it helps my friend John Dudley is a bow hunter yeah pretty famous bow hunt I know John yeah okay and he swears by it yeah he

49:24wears them constantly I it makes a big difference I think so you know like I'm I'm not hunting I'm just trying to get close to stuff and interact with it or find something but I feel it makes a difference you notice a difference personally especially with Birds I've noticed a huge difference I've noticed a huge difference in the water some mammals I've noticed the difference but yeah I like John I feel like it's it helps me get closer and you know it keeps keeps the energy down do you know what I mean like you're emitting all this energy you see this bear or whatever it is your heart spikes your adrenaline goes and it keeps that in capacity so I think we sense that I think certain creatures sense that and I I like to keep that out of the equation right the I guess it would be that there is something coming off of your body and it probably would be an advantage for

50:08animals to be able to recognize that just because we can't quantify it right and put it on a scale and weigh it or something like that's probably something going on predator prey right like yeah if you're a lion and I'm an antelope and my adrenaline spikes and my heart's going and you know you're gonna come for me but if that's out of the equation the energy stays reduced well that's one of the weirder video some of the weirder videos that I've seen I should say was people that are interacting with predators so who like people that have like coyotes come right up to them while they're wearing those things yep yeah and and turkeys as well it totally like I said Birds because birds birds have that in their brain they have I'm gonna quote it wrong but they have something that they can detect electrical signals with what helps them migrate around the world so for sure I think

50:53the difference yeah so what else do you use use the hex suit a ton of different tools man I mean I customized stuff you know like in the Amazon we were looking for caiman and type of crocodile so I melt like a beefed-up dog catcher that I used to try and last sue them I have a snake hook on me at all times cook yeah that's a snake hook so it's just this like it's like a golf club with a hook on the end so I can work with venomous snakes without it reaching back and grabbing well doesn't restrain them it actually like their body sits in it I do a lot of reptile stuff so I always have a snake hook on me I mean the list goes on ton of trail cameras I use a lot of thermal-imaging stuff like especially like looking for wolves or something like that we you know wolves are active at night it's really hard to get a shot of them put a thermal bird in the air and you can see these these animals

51:42running through valleys Wow yeah it's cool stuff you'd love it well I'm fascinated by wolves I think that wolves to me are probably the most interesting animal in the wild canids man wild dogs of all kind are unbelievable they're so at the top of their respective food chain yeah we have a lot of coyotes around here and yeah basically they're little wolves the little sneaky wolves but real wolves like wolves in Yellowstone you know wolves in the northwest yeah area of the United States though they have got to be some of the most majestic animals fantastic they were there they operate together yeah always these packs yep you know so there's some sort of weird kind of communication and and what's amazing is like the social dynamic like within the pack you know the hierarchy and then on a hunt like you go left I go right but without any verbal communication right right and

52:36then coming together and making a kill I mean it's mind-blowing stuff you know you talk about not understanding wildlife we don't understand how they do that right right we don't understand what kind of communication is going on do you think there's some sort of like telepathic or is it just facial and recognizing cues and patterns that they've established before of they see an animal they know to flank it I definitely believe it's that like I definitely believe there is an intrinsic understanding of you go left I go right you know facial recognition your your expression tells me to do something you're dominant I'm passive you know learning that way but I also think there's something more than that whether it's telepathic whether it's a low frequency sound that where it's not audible to us I have no idea but I do think it's more than just visual cues

53:24that's where the apparently the myth of the werewolf comes from is that wolves are so smart they think that wolf and a person were like combined together I I don't believe that per se but I can see how that came up you know I mean it's totally they're so smart African wild dogs are the same like they they hunting these huge packs they go over these massive areas and then they'll push a single animal into one area to make the kill and they're not big animals there again like our coyote size and they'll take down you know a kudu or some huge antelope I mean it's it's incredible well African wild dogs are so cool-looking - those black spots yellow and all the stunning they just they look angry they look freaky looking you know there's III think they're they're my favorite of the kid like you love wolves I love African Wild Dogs I just think they're so beautiful and

54:12majestic and unusual and they're just such a cool animal correct me if I'm wrong but I think all of them come from the United States I think all of them originally came from North America like I think Canada yeah all candidates came from North America I think that's coyote America the gentleman who's been on the podcast before what is his name is escaping me right now but he he wrote about it huh about you know all the the various and with it jackals and Flores Dan Flores that's it he's that is a fascinating book yeah I'm gonna write it down yeah I'd love to read it great and I did a podcast with him years ago that's excellent too and he he has all sorts of crazy insight as to Native American North American animals that went somewhere else like horses like horses were native to North America but they weren't here when the European settlers came they did they went extinct

55:06they had been taken they had there were other places like apparently wild horses from Europe all originated from North America and were taken over and then how or another well from whatever and then went extinct here were reintroduced with the European settlers huh that's interesting crazy yeah it's fat and that's the thing like with what I do looking for extinct animals or proof that they're still out there is like there are so many stories like that I didn't know that one in specific America is very well covered with eyeballs but what's to say there isn't some remnant small population somewhere in the middle of nowhere that nobody has found these horses that have been untouched by human beings for millennia right and that's that's what I that's what I do that's what drives me right find this pocket find this animal that's been hiding out undetected for thousands of years yeah

55:57so what other animals are you looking for a lot like we're talking about primates I'm going to Borneo to look for an animal called the millers grizzled Langer it's a type of monkey I just got back I was looking for an extinct caiman in the Amazon stink caiman yeah what's the difference in that in the Caymans that you see just a different species you know just like there's many types of crocodile there's many types of caiman you know you have saltwater crocodiles now a crocodile the same thing with caiman and I was looking for one with a very weird morphological variant it looks very very different to any other what's different but it's got a very elongated snout if you've ever seen agario if you know what that is type of crocodile with this long crazy nose it's like the alligator family that came and family version of that this really long skinny face super

56:43light super yellow coloration just very different last time one was seen was 52 years ago and then they had one in the zoo that died in the 80s and nobody's found one since so just really cool and so yeah the list goes on you know last year I did leopards and I did wolves and Newfoundland and a bunch of really interesting stuff so it's fun man you love it you should come with I'll talk to him again I'm such a what about giant sloths what are your feelings on those so I've had probably three years of research into this into giant sloths because Matt Nana who agree I believe is how it's said it's the South American name for giant sloths there's I don't want to give away too much info before I get to do a chance a chance at looking for it but after all the research I've compiled there is in my opinion one location on earth it's in hi Peru where nobody goes it's a bowl of

57:37mountains impenetrable the only way and is a helicopter in the center to me that that ball is going to be like a primordial Eden all of the cultures surrounding it have old stories of giant sloths they all have different names for it but they all have these stories of these giant sloths right they were all hunted to extinction however they've handed down these traditions but nobody except for you know a tiny handful of like far-out tribal people have ever really got into this impenetrable ball and I think if they're anywhere they're in there Wow I saw a documentary once about this scientist that was essentially risking his reputation trying to find a giant sloth somewhere that's that maybe in the Amazon somewhere probably Peruvian Amazon that's where I'm thinking too and he he kept talking to people that had seen it and he never could get ahold of it but he had been there for years

58:26isn't it crazy though like why yeah what if you're a little Amazonian villager you don't read you don't have TV there's no reason to make up scientific you know science fiction why say you've seen it because you like to with white people could be could be you're exhausted covered with mosquito bites he's like any day now yeah yeah just over the next hill he's gonna wait for you to rot out there'll be a mean man that's a mean guy you wanna log all right buddy patch on the back there's the last spot for you and I'll be taking this yeah I'll take your binocular yeah yeah I mean yeah there's no reason for them to lie but right it doesn't that's like the thing that people say about everything why was your in lie well people why for a bunch of weird reasons people do it people are crazy up true yeah yeah I mean to me it's like you have to take an eyewitness report of an extinct

59:29creature or zoo crypto creature with a grain of salt yeah but you still have to take it do you know what I mean you still have to bank it and consider it yeah and so that's that's kind of the way I go I I always talk to people but then I come up with I do the biology right I track I put the cameras I paid I sent I do all of that stuff to try and get evidence of my own because just going with eyewitness reports is like you say it's nothing is there ever been any eyewitness reports that are just too too ridiculous where you like oh for sure like what oh man loads I mean like talk about the thylacine for instance there was a guy that we met there who's like yeah there's Styles seen everywhere they run around with the black cats and we're like what he's like yeah there's Black Panthers - they like hang out together black I'm lengthers in Australia exactly

60:17that I made the same face you did so I'm like okay tell me more and he's like yeah you know they like to hang out over there there behind the trash heap they jump around with Black Panthers oh they're just and I'm like alright well that's the thing I'm like you're you're just you're either crazy or you're completely with me and I'm not sure which one it is because your eyes are telling me crazy well yeah well I mean how many different pockets in the world are there like that Basin that you said you gotta get helicoptered into there's a few yeah a few yeah you'd be surprised because you know we're here we're in a city we're so used to our modern conveniences but there are totally untouched pieces of the world still well do you know David Cho the artist I don't he he went to the Congo I think was a Congo to look for a dinosaur no it was a really early vais

61:03piece back when vice was first starting out and David is one of the more eccentric people that I know he's a multi-millionaire made a shitload of money gambling and also he made a shitload of money because he was at Facebook painted yeah I painted Facebook what does that mean to the wall yeah the inside they hired him to paint like do these murals and they gave him stock and that stock wound up being worth hundreds of millions of dollars and so he's just this freaky super talented artist yeah who is just doing weird and one of the things they did was like hey man you want to go look for a dinosaur he's like okay I'll go absolutely why wouldn't you but there's this video of him I want to say he was like 25 at the time - I think he was pretty young yeah look at him there oh yeah so he's in the jungle in search of a dinosaur huh because and it was one of those things where the

61:55the locals were saying hey mister there's a dinosaur in the Congo right which doesn't totally make sense but it but yeah but who knows right why not investigate it kind of thing but I mean how big of an area would there have to be for there to be a species that we are not aware of like how big of an area oh I mean you know that's that's it's a generic question because we discover you'd have to look up the numbers but it's like 2,000 new species a year right little stuff but mostly little stuff there's an animal discovered the most recently there's an animal called the Salwa it's an animal that I'm actually working on later this year and it is a an antelope like they call it the Asian unicorn because for generations people have been talking about this asian unicorn and Western world's like yeah whatever whatever whatever and then finally somebody went down there into

62:44the Laotian mountains and and was like here's a skull and here's a skin and they're like holy this is a real thing and this is like in a pot not populated but there's plenty of people living there you know what I mean this isn't like this isn't like the middle of nowhere this is where there's villages and tribes and people and they're like here's this animal here's the skin here's a skull and since then I think one trail camera has the photo has ever surfaced like nobody's ever successfully documented it because it's just this incredibly elusive animal like whether it has super sensory organs you know hearing sight smell whatever it is or it's just super low density and population nobody really knows but this animal this this huge like antelope has been around forever people little tribal people have been talking about it in like a mythological way the same way

63:32they would talk about dinosaurs in the Congo and the Western world is going sure buddy whatever you say and then somebody finally goes down there does an expedition just like David did and goes oh it turns out it's here Wow what is it about animals where we're so fascinated by the ones that might not be real or that might be hidden like what what is it about them we I mean people love to study giraffes there are things that are absolutely real but they also have a even more compelling need to search for things that are not quite sure that I'm not quite sure if they exist or not I don't know man I think it's like it's human nature to want to know more like we of course like not everybody you see a giraffe you're like it's real I know it banked it right some people go to the extreme they study every aspect of it but as a general populace I feel like once we know something's there we want

64:25to know what the next thing is yeah I mean we what do you think like what why why is it that we're so fascinated with it I don't know the answer I think it's probably a side effect of our compulsion for innovation like human beings are constantly trying to find out new secrets aren't find you know like find out new discoveries and invent new things and fine explore new world yep I mean this is just something that's been a part of human nature forever this desire to improve right and to go further fund the next best spot but a new thing you know and then I think that also works with animals I think we have this desire to find animals that we didn't know a real or weren't sure real well knowledge is the foundation of that right to go to a new planet we have to have the knowledge of how to get there right to go to a new habitat we have to know what's there and I think maybe

65:13that's that's kind of that deep rooted desire is like we need to know about this thing in order to to understand if we can innovate off of it yeah maybe yeah what did you think when they found that Flores man on in Indonesia it's amazing like I'm not an anthropologist so you know that's not quite I've been a hundred percent is that 100 percent agreed upon I've only seen kind of headlines I have to defer to you guys I think there was one there was some scientist that was disputing but but essentially they were talking about a three-foot tall Hobbit like man yeah kind of cave dwelling yeah little person existed alongside human beings as recently as like 14,000 years ago right right which is like what I I think it's completely believable I mean they're the Kois and people in this Horan desert are tiny you know they're they're a big like four feet and until the you might have

66:06to double-check this but I believe until the 70s people used to go and hunt them maybe it was earlier or 60s or 50s but you could go and hunt this primitive sized human being as like a pay you know as like a hunt like an old Englishman with his big moustache and his musket would go hunt these people whoa and now we have an understanding that you know they're people like you can't go and hunt them but like what's to say there weren't tribes like that all over the world that other people used to hunt that drove to extinction mmm Jesus Christ right what say the name of it again so Jim you got it you got some koi Sam yeah let me see what these people look like they're in my opinion they're beautiful like you'll see what you think but they're they're very small they're desert dwell you know there's not a lot of resources in the desert so you don't get huge so they're perfectly adapted to

66:53the desert life they really used to hunt them yeah and they look just like people I mean you'll have but they're still around like these aren't extinct race they're still there oh wow yeah the everything the gods must be crazy yes yeah it's like those people those were kind of taller Khoisan but those are Bushmen so who these people used to hunt these like I say I kid you not it was like the old English explorer would go and conquer Africa and and hunt these people like they were an animal you know crazy right this was until the 1970s that might not be right that sounds too recent doesn't know god damn that sounds horrific yeah you might need to check that but it was not as long ago as you'd think you know I mean it was like very recently they were still under under hunting and their people yeah Jesus Christ yeah so that that's probably what happened to a lot

67:49of the non homo sapien human type people I would think so and even if it's not like for sport it's for competition or resources or you know what any reason yeah and that's that's human nature conquer yeah man that is so dark right they would go and hunt small people with a rifle yep you know it's nice if their photos of people like posing with the dead ones um again I'm not an anthropologist I'm not sure yeah it's brutal yeah mmm so what are the pockets of the world are like mostly unexplored or could perhaps contain some of these animals South America for sure Central Africa for sure there's some very remote parts of like Russian Arctic Norwegian Arctic there's areas in Asia that are still unexplored believe it or not regardless they're populous they really are deep deep China there's some very unexplored areas northern Myanmar ecological hot spot nobody goes there very impenetrable

68:52I read something about there was some part of the world where they thought pterodactyls might still exist there's so many of those things I don't know that one specifically there's especially doing what I do I hear them all the time right no you got to go look for Bigfoot's or pterodactyls or whatever man that's it's you could there be a large reptile that perhaps flies sure it's possible is there a pterodactyl as we know it I highly highly doubt it but a large reptile that could fly would be a trip they were around right so do you think it would be something that we don't know about like yeah basically I think there's enough pieces of this world that are unexplored that there are still megafauna to be discovered know it a lot not a lot by any means and I might get ridiculed as I go back to my scientific community for saying this but my belief is there are these isolated

69:38pockets where small populations of megafauna still exist that we don't know about whoa yeah well South America is I mean how much of South America is actually populated I mean you look at the size of the Amazon jungle or something and it's it's the sure there's there's communities and stuff but not that much I mean it's there it Australia you know if you're not on the coast there's nothing right yeah there's all these huge chunks Papua New Guinea same thing nobody goes up into the highlands there they just found a dog there as you saw I mean there's crazy stuff now what do you think about these guys that are talking about bringing animals back um like as a scientist sure the extinction is it's a weird word it is it is its reintroduction is that they call it the extinction so that's what they call it yeah the extinction is to me it's fascinating especially if it's something

70:31like say the passenger pigeon right we used to have billions of them in the United States wiped him out and now they're saying you know that we can take the closest living relative isolate some genes and make a new passenger pigeon is that worth it because it's something we wiped out in the last hundred years yes I feel like that's we should heal the ecosystem by putting that back right that being said we still need to learn from our mistakes like we need to take into account what we did and why we did it and like do I think there should be a Jurassic Park and a bunch of mammoths and t-rex is absolutely not that's a waste whether we can or cannot do it to me that's a waste of scientific resources that could go towards conserving things that are on the brink now when you say like heal or mend the environment or the ecosystem when you would bring back something like a

71:19passenger pigeon isn't like 90% of everything that ever existed extinct sure absolutely does the ecosystem adjust and evolve and would reintroducing something like a passenger pigeon would it kind of things up that exists now where new animals have taken a different position on the hierarchy it's too short an evolutionary time so we are in what's called the sixth mass extinction event right there's been five others before us the one we're in now it's happening at 80% greater rate than it's ever happened before so we are wiping out things more quickly than the world can adapt so you know you go into an environment and you take out all the apex predators the prey explodes the prey explodes the grass gets eaten down everything collapses now if you left that environment over time a revolutionary time it would adapt right maybe say say all of the Predators got a

72:10disease and they died out died out over 300 generations during that time something would evolve within the environment to adapt the prey so that it didn't wipe out the environment that's just kind of the nature's balance but when you go in there and do it in ten years or five years it throws off the equilibrium so when you in theory when you reintroduce something that's been and it's not theory it's it's science they've shown this even right here in the California Channel Islands when you put something back that's missing from the ecosystem it's like you're putting a piece of the puzzle back right and then you can allow it to do its thing over evolutionary time what did they do in the Channel Islands so I was actually a big part of that and I loved loved the project so the California Channel Islands were settled by agriculture there were sheeps goats pigs bla bla

72:54there was everything brought over there right and so not catalina but think about the northern Channel Islands what happened was when all these animals were brought in all the farmers were there then Golden Eagles coming over Golden Eagles came over to eat the pigs and everything else flew across the ocean yep flew across the channel started preying on pigs and everything else there was an animal on the Channel Islands called the channel on Fox a very gorgeous cute cuddly little fox you can see him if you go to Santa Cruz Island there's loads of them now thanks to the work that scientists have done anyway they were like okay the Fox is being there it is oh so the Fox is being wiped out through habitat destruction through all these undulates that have been brought in so scientists got together and what undulates like cows yeah yeah domestic animals cows

73:39sheep goats etc so scientists came in and said you know the habitats getting destroyed the and that that's just the keystone there were several species that were on the decline the cows are getting the livestock is wiping out the habitat the foxes are declining what do we do well obvious answer let's remove all the livestock so we removed all the livestock right through helicopters there's a lot of pigs that were causing damage all that kind of stuff we removed it all then the Golden Eagles started preying on the Foxes because their main habitat was gone so now the Foxes are under even more pressure so then we remove the Golden Eagles this is a very abridged version of what happened but now we've got the Golden Eagle also pushed out the bald eagle which are fish eaters which lived on the island so now after loads of years of removing Golden Eagles like relocating them

74:22removing all of the livestock now you have a healthy population of Channel Island foxes the bald eagles are back they're eating fish the whole ecosystem is back in balance had it been left the way it was what you would have found at the californian Channel Islands over say 20 or 30 more years 40 or 50 more years no foxes no no bald eagles a ton of golden eagles and a ton of pigs and likely over time pigs would have exploded to the point that they Easter Island themselves right they ate up all the resources destroyed all the habitat population collapsed Golden Eagles collapse nothing left on the island what do you mean by Easter Island themselves so you're familiar with Easter Island in South America I know what those statues are and all that stuff but I'm not familiar with what happened to cherylin so that Island is was an ancient civilization that was the mecca had

75:04everything off land had big trees tons of food blah blah blah blah people settled there and they said this place is incredible it's paradisiacal and then they started cutting down the trees to fish they started eating all the mammals and what actually happened is because they were so remote the middle of the ocean nowhere near South America nowhere near anywhere else they cut down the last tree there were no more canoes there was no more food on the island and the population collapsed the island was barren it was void of trees void of life void of anything and they didn't have the canoes or anything to leave anymore because they cut down the last tree to build build a boat or make firewood and everybody there died oh so that that's what happens when you use up every last resource God so Wow when did this happen I couldn't couldn't tell you yes I thought it was like a mystery to

75:53like what happened to the population in the Easter Island so they're pretty that's your that's the accepted that's the scientifically accepted understand and did they get this from fossils they get this from bones and is that so they they've sort of pieced it together yep they took they take you know isotope samples and measure carbon dating and yada yada I think that the heads are still a pretty big mystery why I think certain people believe that the heads were like a nail you know calling to the gods to help save things because they were going so badly yada yada but I believe the heads are still a pretty big mystery but the actual anthropology the population to collapse is is known to be due to running out of resources how long did it go for good holy do they have an idea of how long the population lasted I think it's all I think it's all published yeah I don't know off the top

76:39of my head but it was it was a thriving population that you know flew too close to the Sun is they said because of Easter Island small size only 63 square miles it quickly became overpopulated its resources were rapidly depleted when Europeans arrived on Easter Island between the late 1700s in the early 1800s it was reported that the moai were knocked down and the island seemed to that I say that right moai be the night knocked down and the island seemed to have been a recent war site hmm last was yeah see the next one their constant warfare between the tribes the lack of surprising resources disease invasive species and the opening of the island to foreign slave trade eventually led to Easter islands collapsed by the 1860s so it didn't take long 1,700 to the 1860s that was rap wow it was annexed by Chile and so they've never tried to repopulate the island with trees or

77:37anything else and they're just kind of leave it alone I believe so I know you can go there and visit it and see the heads and I think there are some things there now but it's it's barren there are no trees there's no you know it's all been depleted it's so crazy when they introduce animals to an island and it winds up everything up like Galapagos Island you know and I'm sure you're familiar with the Judas Judas goats Judas goats are those the ones on the Galapagos do you know how they do that I don't hate goats it's really interesting not from that helicopters yeah well this is how they do it they cast goats like to hang out together right but sometimes hard to locate them so they put a radio collar on one goat they castrate it and then they let it loose and they gunned down all the goats around it and let that go go find the rest of the goats no it goes and finds

78:20the rest that goes then they gun down those goats because they have the radio collar yeah so these what is this James or a picture of a Judas coat I guess was just wife's how sad is that single goats life he's like new friends yeah helicopter so I'm actually heading there on Monday the guard goes yeah they make you take your shoes off right scrub to make sure they didn't have weird seeds in the bottom of your shoes I have to stop eating seeds quarantine for 48 hours when we arrives I'm an eating seed so you don't it out exactly Wow yeah quarantine for 48 hours yep Wow why is there so much concern about this one area I mean it's the dawn of evolution you know it's where Darwin came up with a theory of evolution due to the finches it's it has been destroyed in some aspects and it's been the habitat has been fixed in a lot of places there's been great conservation

79:15efforts and personally I love what they're doing because they're trying to keep it pristine you know I think it's fantastic that there's a quarantine I think it's great that I'm not supposed to eat seeds for two weeks before going there mm-hmm and it's it's to keep it as perfect as it is now the island that I'm going to with with my small team has like nobody ever stepped foot on it it's an active volcano that erupts every year it's this crazy harsh environment we have to have a new pair of boots every day because melts and shreds your boots just walking on it whoa yeah it's been described as hell on earth so I'm stoked Wow no we're kind of protective gear do you have to wear other than your boots just long-sleeved clothing I mean if that does it yet it's so the guy was telling me it's like 45 degrees Celsius so that's it's well over a hundred and yeah

79:58and that's you know we got to be careful about water and hiking and there's just there's a lot of elements but that's the thing is I'm looking for an animal nobody's seen in a very long amount of time so you got to go to these places nobody's going Wow that's incredible you know it's it's interesting the idea of invasive species too right because like Hawaii's a good example yeah Hawaii there's been talk of getting rid of pigs yep and a lot of the natives I like will slow down because if they're what we hunt them we eat them right if they're invasive then what are we right totally the pigs were here right around the same time the people were there and they've we've existed together there they need each other and its culture you know at that point it's it's Polynesian culture to eat a fire roasted pig and hunt your Pig and so it's a delicate balance like Hawaii is a perfect example

80:46there's monkeys that were introduced that destroyed the birds and there's Turtles there's frogs there's all kinds of things that have been brought in there but none of those are culturally significant whereas the pig as you're saying is a huge cultural significance so where is the balance well one of the best examples of that would be like lanai because lanai has this insane population of access to here we go and bow hunt them there every year they're delicious and yep they're plentiful and it's one of the most really ethical hunts cuz you have to hunt them raining they they're so overpopulated there's 20,000 of them on an island with 3,000 people yep and have you ever been to lanai I have yeah is diving there spearfishing they're everywhere Lanice it's great and they're so beautiful with their spots and yeah they're amazing and you know I'm all for it like hunting is

81:34a tool for conservation absolutely yeah but it's just bizarre that they did that you have to decide to let deer loose on an island with nothing to eat the deer but people right and then when this is done there's like King Kamehameha which is what year was that I couldn't say a long time ago yeah a long time ago so back then they you know they had guns I mean how are they hunting these things back then bows and Spears are probably right and and they brought them over from Asia right yep yep they're from Asia same thing with New Zealand right there's axis deer there's goats there's all kinds of things but red deer there's all kinds of things down there yeah and same thing they're all brought in for sport yeah New Zealand's a weird one right so is Australia they brought a lot of stuff over there from yep from Europe but New Zealand specifically they were trying to make it like a hunter's

82:20paradise and I think it is right tell me I'm wrong no it does it's a weird one because it's mostly high fence you're gonna love this so under my extinct animal thing they took moose in the New Zealand they took like ten of them small population believe that they've been hunted out you know they shot the last one blah blah blah blah there's one guy crazy lookin dude long hair long beard like nuts looking guy and he's been on the hunt not hunt hunt but like trying to prove that the New Zealand moose is still there he's found antler sheds he's found bedding sites some guy even got a picture of one standing on a rock and you know moose to me it's 100% of moose brand so they're in theory somewhere down the South Island there's one or two or three of these super elusive moose that have been in New Zealand for like 50 years whoa Wow well New Zealand is so

83:08rugged yeah there's a friend of mine has been there my friend Adam green tree he's been there he lives in Australia and he goes there to hunt tar mm-hmm and you know they live and on the steep steep craggy Assael where the rocks real slippery and it's just like cold and yet really high altitude and you've seen them before right yeah yeah it looks like a science fiction animal there as that's me and my friend might mean the guys I work with like to say stranger than fiction you look at it and you're like that's not a real creature like some kid drew that yeah like a big ol shaggy weird-looking things area where they think they are in New Zealand the moose yeah did you see that picture of the one on the rock yeah sticking out right yeah that's the last one that was Tait last picture taken oh there's 1952 there's a recent one though there's one from like two or

83:59three years ago and I looked at it I'm like that's a moose like I don't know who's saying it's not but it's a moose Wow yeah from 1952 mm-hmm yeah that's 100% of moose right but again how weird is it that there's animals that you know are there and then there's animals like we must find this so you spend incredible amounts of time and all these resources that it that's all yeah that's 100% that's freaking Moo that's no doubt about it see what I'm saying people yeah that doesn't even make sense that anybody would argue that right that's a pretty clear picture but that's not proof because they need genetic material they need fur they need something what do they think that is a cloud exactly a rubber moose that someone's stuck to goof on people are they like arguing that somebody could a computer generated it yeah rolling all those you know all those and I appreciate it right as a

84:48scientist I appreciate the fact that you have to have proof right but it does get to the point of ridiculousness yeah well it's certainly possible yeah it's certainly possible that they've I mean especially you're looking at that insanely dense terrain right you know right but so there are some efforts right now to try to distinct some animals there are thank you yeah and like what did what is currently going on right now they're calling it the dawn of de-extinction and it's it's a lot of very very intelligent genetic scientists that are trying to isolate specific genes that are specific to the animals that have been extinct and putting them into extant animals animals that are still here to basically make this Frankenstein animal because it'll never be the animal that's gone right it will look like it'll behave like it it'll think like it etc but it will never

85:45actually be the animal that we've lost at least not yet we haven't we don't have that technology right now what we can do is isolate a genome put it into an existing animal that gives birth to an animal that looks and acts very much like the extinct animal but it's some degree different because it's like part like a mammoth for instance they would have to take some DNA from a mammoth right that they would somehow or another get and introduce it to an embryo of Mahomet of an elephant and then the elephant would give birth to a very hairy very large tusks like these isolated genetic code mmm elephant rain it would look like a mammoth it would act like a mammoth but the reality is it's a shaggy elephant with big tusks right so if you did like 23andme on it it would show it's mostly elif exactly a little bit of yeah I mean if you think of a double helix like a

86:34DNA strand right you have these little bars in the middle of it so what they do is this is a very crude way to explain it but they pull out a bar from an elephant and they put in a bar from a mammoth and then eventually you get this mammoth and so this would be like gene editing tools like CRISPR exactly in those lines exactly Wow and so how far away are they from doing this it's I mean it's been successfully done a couple of times they've really yep they've given birth to a couple animals that are very very close to the extinct animal most of the time there's problems right there's it's infertile its it has lung issues whatever it is there's a couple different cases I'm not a geneticist I'm a wildlife biologist so I don't really understand it but it's they've done it they have successfully reproduced things that are gone basically clone things and then the

87:24animal hasn't made it to adulthood and that seems really really like playing God it is absolutely like playing God so I feel like I mean are people doing it just because they can is it one of those things or zero like a real valid scientific reason for trying to reintroduce these animals or D extinct them well the valid reason is to conserve the ecosystem right like we talked about but I think he goes back to what we were saying half an hour ago which is it's just that that quest for knowledge that can we do it the innovation right can we play God can we fix it can we take this thing that's gone and say no it's not like we have the tools to make it not gone yeah there was some article that I read where they were talking about reintroducing the mammoths to Siberia and that there would be some ecological benefit to reintroducing the mammoths because of

88:17the way they forage for food they would have some sort of an effect on global warming I mean do you know about that I don't know about that specific so you can find that Jeremy the reintroducing the mammoths to Siberia to benefit the environment look whether that's accurate or not until you put mammoths on the ground how do we actually know it's a great theory and that's what science is right it's coming up with hypotheses and then trying to prove them and it sounds cool like do I want to see a mammoth walking around Siberia yeah but does that mean it's actually good for the world hard to say whoa could bringing back mammoths help stop climate change scientists say creating hybrids of extinct beasts could fix the Arctic tundra and stop greenhouse gas emissions don't understand that I find it hard to believe to be honest maybe it's just some scientists clever way of sneaking

89:05it in because he wants to play God okay yeah we're gonna fix everything yeah use coal who gives a yeah that's that's sadly very real well is it really oh yeah I mean look if you're a scientist right right you Joe Rogan is a scientist how are you gonna make your career are you gonna make your career by raising money through being like yeah sure like I'll study cricket legs or are you gonna be like look give me the money to stop global warming by bringing back mammoths like right you know like why you can make the outrageous claim if you think it's gonna fund your research right that's how you make your bones right and that's that's one of the sad realities of some certainly not all science well mammoths too are so iconic it's such a freaky animal to study you know we had them here California Channel Islands yeah bring me mammoths yeah how long ago is that I

90:00want to say pre Ice Age not actually sure mmm but I mean still can you imagine like you know you're out fishing at Catalina and you look up and there's a pygmy mammoth on the cliff there's a there's so many mammoth tusks in Alaska in particular there's a there's an Instagram page we could send it to you Jamie there's a page where they go and look for them and they they they basically use like a high-pressure hose and blow them out of the side of a hill it's like an eyesore is it in like earth it's an earth yeah okay the boneyard Alaska is the Instagram page if you go to the boneyard Alaska you'll see what I'm talking about it's incredible I mean they keep pulling these they're using these hoses and cleaning off this dirt and they're pulling these intact tusks that's insane if it must have been so many of them that died and they're preserving whether it's mudslides or ever and they get

90:59preserved under these things there's this one pocket where they're all concentrated well they're parently they find quite a bit of them that's not yeah any one of those in the in the studio mammoth tusks yeah man seems like like ivory yeah yeah you don't want to add some rich house totally what is that a cigar with skull Oh short-faced bear skull hole that's a cool animal that's a cool animal yeah we've we've drooled over those banks many times on the podcast see right there you see those tusks oh yeah those are tough laugh but yeah bottom line right there those are some tough that they pulled out that's nuts yeah there's a ton of them man I mean these guys these guys are constantly doing this and pulling these things out so let me ask you you're hiking through there right you're uh you're on a hike or a hunt or whatever you stub your toe on one what

91:49do you do you dig it out and put on your pack leave it take a picture what do you do I don't know what the rules are like if you're in certain places and you find an arrowhead you're supposed to leave it but rules aside like ethically what do you do well it depends on how far away you are right because they're you that's a lot of weight said that's that's fair that's fair let's say you mark it a mark a pin on a GPS and come back because it's like it's something you want right as a human being it's a treasure like you found this incredible thing but ethically you should probably shouldn't touch it you know what do you do well these guys obviously know what they're doing right for me I would I mean if look at that one oh my god that's crazy it is you'd wrap it up with tape is that what they did there to like it looks like all those metal thing to hand it

92:35together sort of I like to keep it from falling apart maybe as they pull it out of the water or the other dirt rather um if I was thinking of my best me yeah the best me would mark a pin and then alert status and tell them where it is and leave it the alone don't be a greedy dick so what happens in our spring cut I dig that out and put pack right not tell anybody and bring it back home I just don't know what the law is sure and even beyond the law like here's this gentleman right here it's pulling this out even if you don't know what the law is what's what's right that's the question right what's right what's the right thing to do yeah there might not be a good law yet right but there might be if I mean there clearly is a finite number of these things of course there has to be and they're prehistoric now let me let me pose this to you so I know a guy is treasure

93:23hunter by trade very cool old guy Australian guy lived in Perth and for years he's like I know where this certain Spanish ship went down long story short he finds it right digs up one single gold coin he's like it's here I know it's here it's big spearfishermen adventure guy goes spends tens of thousands of dollars not a rich man spends tens of thousand dollars got gets all this excavator equipment goes to this very remote area of north western australia pulls up something like 10 million dollars worth of treasure takes it home legally declares that all tells tells the government gets all confiscated they give him three or four pieces you can see his treasure in the museum in Perth here's this guy who would have retired been a wealthy man you know had his whole life taken care of because of this thing he was obsessed with and then found and then got the tools on his own

94:10dime to go and get it declares it and has it confiscated dude well that's weird because you find stuff in the ocean and they take it and people become billionaires right they find Russian or Roman chefs ships filled with gold coin resin but for whatever reason like this was considered like history historically valuable so it was taken for the museum right and he got yeah a few coins and no money I I got to look up the guy's name I know a similar story it's happened in America okay the guy that was went to hunt it got investors right and when he got the gold he just kept it when investors asked for the money he shorter said I don't know you're talking about I lost it or I don't know where I put it or I don't know where it is so he's I think he's currently in jail under contempt of court oh geez being asked where is it and he said I don't know it's taking a lot of

95:03Tector tests it people think his kids have it or something like that but they have no idea where it is it's a crazy story well that's a weird one too because like what are you gonna do with it right like if people are staring at you they're there like constantly look where is it where is it you like I don't have it they're gonna keep looking like how much is it worth millions mmm I think each coin might be worth a million you might have something like twenty to thirty of them it's like a lot of money it's insane well you got to bring it to someone who's gonna give you a piece you know you got to bring it to someone but then then you're gonna get caught where'd you get the Brad million Ben what exactly sound it yeah well it's interesting when things are historical right you don't know like who does it belong to museum doesn't belong to the person who finds

95:46it right like what are the what are the rules and are we making these rules up as we go along it's yeah it's worth 20 million there's I found a story it's still in jail right now Wow jailed treasure hunter ordered to pay nearly 20 million this is tommy Thompson tommy Thompson yeah that sounds like the kind of guy yeah what is that island there's one island that has like this crazy hole in the ground that was made by pirates like Captain Cook or someone like there's a television show about it you know the curse of Oak Island yeah that's the show yeah yeah it's up in Canada right Canada yes and they have some crazy hole in the ground right they're trying to figure out how to get into but there's all these weird little traps and yep that's exactly right yeah what do they thinks in there some astronomically valuable treasure right and I believe the islands changed hands

96:40like seven or eight times because people trying to find it have gone broke digging it up excavating and exploring it and there's booby traps and like all this crazy stuff yeah there's some sort of a method that they've devised where if you go deep enough it just fills up with water so you can never get to the actual treasure itself right so the people mate who put the treasure there might have themselves like Dudley we're assuming they're so smart that they buried the treasure in a way that nobody can ever get it out but they might have just burned it in a way that they couldn't even get it out I think that's the case I think it's one of those like oh we're gonna keep it here and then they couldn't get it I mean who knows but yeah what a crazy story yeah so do they know who did it I'm not sure see if you find something on the Oak Island so that television

97:23it's just like they're just like going well now what right I think they're just digging and trying so you can't suck all the water out right cuz he's getting water from the ocean what's up sea level so yeah just you know constantly filling up right unless you go down there with a submarine I think they put divers in it they've had metal detectors day I don't really know I I'm not super familiar with the show I just know someone that was there and yeah I think it's this pretty serious ongoing thing which buried treasure right remember when you were a kid there's x marks the spot the coolest yeah the cool tonight the so-called Knights Templar cross is one of the most exciting treasures found there really but they found it so-called says upon first glance it resembles a Knights Templar cross do they have a picture that I think that's all right here mmm-hmm so yeah when they find

98:12these if they've in their open ocean when they find these things it's whoever finds it gets to keep it right if it's anything some water I believe so so only have like these ancient Roman ships but you still have to bring it back into port and declare it you know what makes it historically valuable like I think there's it's a lot I feel like there's a lot of loopholes where you can get screwed out of your find yeah man yeah it's that's a weird one who owns that right who knows yeah I don't know it's it's just interesting to me that there were so many ships that went down that you can find these things in the ocean still yeah then they're filled with gold these crazy ships and people people retire off of it and you know spend their whole career and lose every dime they have trying to find one yeah and how they coordinate do they'd read like old logs or something like that and

99:01try to figure out which way that people went and I have no idea hmm man so what are their like crazy trips do you want to do that you haven't done yet there's a lot man I mean the one that I've had on my bucket list since Howser so there's a couple one is there's one really one place on earth left where there's true cannibals it's Papua New Guinea and unlike the missionary that went in you know with an agenda I would just love to actually see these these cannibalistic tribes so I'd love to do that nobody has successfully unless it's happened very recently and I'm not aware of successfully done source to see if Congo River from guerilla warfare from crazy waterfalls disease that's an expedition I'd like to try and then when it comes to wildlife I mean the list is infinite there's so many of these animals that I'm desperate to try and find those sound like very dangerous

99:51trips like visiting cannibals yeah I mean like I don't know how to say this without sounding arrogant but that's what sounds exciting to me right you know is giving that shot that other taking that shot that other people aren't taking so have people visited these cannibals and come out of there yeah yep there was a there was a NatGeo photographer who got some incredible photos there called the car away tribe and he went in there took him a while for them to kind of assimilate and get comfortable and then he got these photos that are just mind-blowing now how often do they practice cannibalism it is a it's not a daily thing it is a spiritual thing where they actually eat the eat the other tribes deceased after a war or an inter tribal conflict as a way to like ward off bad spirits so it's not like a daily thing it's not like they're going out hunting each other

100:42it's more like when these things occurred they they have to eat a certain kill or a certain body to keep evil spirits at bay do they get that version of mad cows disease that cannibals get was it Jakob skrutz fell I know what you're talking about I'm not sure I think it's probably infrequent enough that they're not getting it because like in the in the South Pacific they got that all the time but they were eating each other like all the time yeah well I think you get it from nerves right and nerve tissue or brain brain yeah that's where it's essentially mad cow disease exactly yeah yeah is this guy hanging out with them there it's their song the sound and he's eating something I don't think people with is gonna eat a person that's yeah but yeah I look at the tribe I mean they're just look amazing yeah but it's just so incredible that there's still people that live the

101:33way they live many many many thousands of years ago and they essentially just get their resources from the land for any area they live and they're they're just rockin and old-school and then for me like the cultural significance is huge but what's the biological area like you're right nobody's going in how much biological studies been done the answer is none and these people have large property look at that lady is she amazing Wow yeah have you read sapiens sapiens no I'm not evolutionary book about what you've all her Otte I think that's the name of his he's amazing riding around yeah it's a it's a great book but one of the things that they talked about in the book was these nomadic tribes that would yeah that's it you've all know a herati I up his name they would talk about these nomadic tribes that would kill the old ladies like killed the people that

102:36were burdens and like just shows like them know just kill them just talking about like what people became a problem right it would just kill him and this was normal but they got along together great sherry was like laughing and smiling everybody's really friendly but as soon as someone seemed to be a problem they Club them from behind and just it's like this is gonna sound just awful but doesn't that make sense it kind of does it sucks but it kind of does right like you're a burden on the community or on the society you know there's no old folks home out there yeah like that's it's crazy like to us in our culture that's absurd but as a culture removed from the rest of the world makes sense like you're a burden you know you've had a good life it's time to move on and they're nomadic that's the other thing it's like they have to keep moving so if someone stops

103:21and they're like there's one guy he was sick and so they left him on a tree and he became covered with buzzard because the vultures would just sit over him and wait for him to die but he eventually recovered home and he caught up with the rest of the tribe and for the rest that they called him something like Buzzard that was their nickname for him yeah imagine being that guy imagine sitting under a tree looking up at vultures being like it's moments till I die and they're gonna drop down and eat me at least they're polite enough to wait for you to die it's true if they don't just the guy probably couldn't a fall they're the trickiest of all the the animals that the matriarchal society of them with a theme have the fake dicks they're amazing how bizarre so weird crazy faces crazy biology and Anatomy you know that fella form that cat-like but doesn't belong to

104:14any family like yeah super weird in love them they have a giant fake dick the female trait of a giant fake dick they give birth to they do put birth out of rather yep yeah they have unbelievable biting power too right yep the strongest mammalian jaw pressure on earth what a weird-looking animal ii don't like even one shoulder and you know like totally looks like a villain yeah yeah like it's upper body is like higher than its lower body it's been first strange very what is it like when you encounter those in the wild a sketchy very cowardly very wary at all times like i've encountered them a lot and as as it when you're in africa if they're tall or if you're taller than it generally won't attack you so people get like super scared of hyenas when i was a little boy i learned if you're running in the bush and you see a hyena stand up and put your arms up like that they say that about cats

105:03too right like like mountain lions look at that Jesus look at that thing man so cool it doesn't you know like Allah oh it's so creepy looking yeah I love when they a circle lions do like I think when they get enough of them together and they start circling and snapping at the Lions legs and strength in numbers yeah yep there's a documentary on this one male lion who would kill all these hyenas and he was like the enforcer for the tribe no way see how the hyenas come in and with the female lions and Wow giant male would come out of nowhere and there's video of it video of him smashing these hyenas just grabbing them with his giant head Oh shaking them snapping them and tossing him in the air and then chasing after another one and and and killing them too unreal no I haven't seen that that's amazing have you ever seen relentless enemies ever seen that documentary release no no no

106:01it's um it might be on Netflix dude I've got so much homework - yeah right listen amis is a documentary about a very rare pack of lions that branched that the river changed its course and left them stranded on an island with water buffalo okay so they they developed like a much larger frame and they're like far larger than regular lines like the female lions in this pack are as big as male lions anywhere they're enormous they don't even look real is this relentless yeah it's from 2006 oh it's not very old also book oh okay but what's really cool is that they've evolved to take down these enormous Buffalo sure so the the cats when you look at them they look like a lot that looks normal there but it's all relics like a normal one but some of them look so muscular yeah they almost look fake all he's getting is oh wow she's getting the calf yeah Cape Buffalo are terrifying too by

107:06the way yeah yeah she's like let that go it but there's you know very few things that they can eat on this one island so they're developed this ability to just have larger frames and they're much more muscular and apparently there's that what's really interesting is there's this pack that's really big but then there's another pack that lives on the island that's normal-sized huh yeah so they must be eating the smaller prey species I don't know man I'm too stupid but it's the same thing so a size of that look that's look at the musculature in the hindquarters yeah I mean she's built like a male she's I look like a large male lion I mean that is like steroids yeah that's a big female yeah I made they're the same thing that happened in Newfoundland Canada with the wolves you love wolves so there was this island Newfoundland and there's wolves gray wolves were isolated there for a long

107:56long time and they all they were eating were moose and caribou so they just got huge and they were bright white because it was a snow-covered island like 80% of the year and there were just these massive white wolves all jacked all shredded chasing around moose and caribou Wow yeah it's just the way nature allows animals to adapt to their environment it's just unbelievably interesting that's it's what I live for honestly it's so fascinating the the the ecological niches that each animal like fulfills and the roles that they play within each other it's all perfectly balanced and to see it and understand it like it's fantastic to see the individual but to understand the big picture of the environment and the roles that are filled as you say it's like it's mind-blowing yeah there's a documentary on the Congo from the BBC from I want to say like the early 2000s

108:46maybe even late 90s and it goes into that into detail about how all these animals have adapted and like dijkers of the hikers in the Congo that swim underwater for as much as a hundred yards no hay fish some of them eat fish a fish eating antelope antelope that swims nuts yeah and then all these animals that got trapped as the the this area of these grasslands turned into rainforests these animals that were essentially like grasslands animals like antelopes and stuff are stuck right in the jungle the swampy jungle and you see like these in these big packs of like antelope running through this swampy jungle area where they just don't look like they belong that long in fields and that's how speciation occurs right so that dykey over a millennia develops fangs to catch those fish in a crocodile like face and webbed who's or you know I don't know and making up

109:38but the point is that's how you get these crazy new species and here in the middle of Congo in this tiny little pocket is this animal that nobody's ever seen before kind of thing and that like to me that's what it's all about go to the Congo find that thing you know is it there what is it that's why someone like me is so incredibly thankful to someone like you out there I don't go there I want to look at your Instagram page I guarantee you'd love it I'm sure I love hundred percent sure I'm a hundred percent sure you're right I'm also hundred percent sure I'm not going but I'm happy that you go I mean it's thank you I'm I'm so fascinated by animals and just animal life and adaptation I think it's one of the more interesting things about this planet definitely is these weird organisms that are trying to figure out their way to to survival you know and then we're seeing and moving and

110:26changing and and we're always finding new ones like I found a snake I posted it up on on Twitter like a week or so ago a snake that has a tail that looks like a fake spider mm-hmm have you seen that thing I'm not sure what do you know the species of it I know the species it's Brian I think it's from I think it's from Iran and Viper yeah scaled scaled pit viper is that it yes a Viper not a snake orange Viper horned Viper have you seen that thing I know what they are yeah it's incredible looks like a spider right and it tricks birds into coming down and try to snatch the spider here we go the Iranians spider that Viper spider tailed Viper like look at its tail that is crazy I mean I'm looking at that in a video and it looks like a bug right and so this thing moves its tail and it perfectly blends into the rock around it like look at that and then that amount of camouflage and

111:22adaptation like how does that happen it's incredible this it's boom oh got you dunzo the birds like what was that that almost got me yeah this is insane Inc what an adaptation I mean like you see the anglerfish that's a very bizarre adaptation yeah well same thing just out of the head yeah yeah it's it's unbelievable I mean the fact that creatures can create that without you know it's not like they're doing it knowingly right Oh some some handful of snakes at one time started wagging their tail and realizing that birds came in right and then over generational time this tail evolved little spikes and little things and all of a sudden you have this whole population of animals that look like that like that's a what is it how the does that happen I mean how does something grow something like that allure right grows a lure off of its head I was like hey look it's

112:13something for you oh my god it's got a worm I mean that thing literally has a like a fishing worm like a bass worm I mean it's it's so amazing all of this adaptation and all of these look at that monster with a light groan and it's got a flashlight on her head but just it's so amazing how much adaptation there is and how all these things sort of work together right like there's the bacteria and the fungi and the plant life and the animal life and the Predators and the prey and it all sort of works together and when something doesn't work it just sort of drops off and then the the the system sort of resets itself exactly in a new order I mean to me there is not you saying it's one of the most fascinating things to me there is nothing more fascinating like I'm you know I'm obsessed with it I live for it because I find it so interesting now when you study these things and do you ever try

113:11to think like how the that happened like you see that that spider tailed snake is there anyone that has like an idea like that this was you know this was just a lucky break that this one snake had a freaky tail and then he got the a lot doesn't eat a lot of birds that's the idea man you just I swear to God you just summed it up like that is the idea one or two or three snakes kind of got this adaptation just a random random genetic sequencing that led to maybe a white watch on the tail something unique doesn't it not seem like that though it seems like they fashioned it but over time over they did but over millennia right over thousands or tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of years the one what happened was say there's two snakes with a white spot on their tail then they have a baby and it has little bit of deformation right a little thing sticking out then

114:02that snake all of a sudden catches more birds than the rest of the snakes that snake now reproduces offspring and it's offspring that has a little bit bigger of a spike catches more birds and so those become the the prized animals to reproduce with to continue the gene pool and so that's what happens it keeps evolving it's like a peacock right this crazy big tail that it's attracting mates with it's not useful to the bird you know that's entirely made for showmanship for peacocking if you will and it over generational time it gets bigger and crazier and more elaborate more colorful and the females literally flock to them and that's the animal that continues on what I really wish there was a way and maybe there will be some time in the future where they're going to be able to show you with like some sort of supercomputer sequencing where they'll be able to look at the DNA of

114:50this thing and say oh this is the exact progression right this is what it started off with and this is what it became right this is how some sketchy looking forest chicken became a peacock totally you know this is how some freaky snake became perfectly adapted to its environment I mean that thing looks exactly like the rock that it's on it's perfect yeah since it is in crowd like I would I'm like you I'd love to know who patient zero is you know who's the who's the first one yeah because stupid people like me look at that and they go okay well that's got to be a plan there's something there's a higher power this is something that like is looking after this things and writing them making them evolve this way right right it's no I mean it's it's super interesting what about like cephalopods like octopus and cuttlefish and the way they adapt their environment that's even

115:37freakier right they do it instantaneously and have you ever heard the theory that octopus are from out of space yeah we talked about that with Brian Cox the other day yeah I'm not I'm not super well-read on it yeah like it looks like a damn alien yeah he was very incredulous but you know he's obviously it's more than both of us right yeah it's like me looking at tackling that it doesn't make sense that of course it doesn't make sense I'm stupid correctly he's he's you know when we're looking at this I but this is apparently like peer-reviewed published paper about the possibility of octopus being reintroduce right on them right I know I don't understand it well but yes it's like the thought that the population came from out of space because the DNA sequence II and suggest something that makes it extraterrestrial adaptability yeah he was super skeptical because he was

116:28saying that they're essentially so close to everything else here right it doesn't make sense but the other theory was it might be just this is the path of life right and the reason why it's so close to us is that this is the way all life even if it's extraterrestrial sure gets established sure I just I don't believe octopus from out of space but I love the theory I love the idea of it it looks like it's from outer space you know it's just wacky well it's such a cool thought yeah you know things came from out of spaces so well that's also a thought about psilocybin mushrooms from the weirder people that they came on asteroids and spores I've heard that yeah and they've I don't know if you know this but they've proven that certain I don't know about psilocybin but certain mushroom spores are impenetrable to the vacuum of space yeah they can survive yeah that's bananas I

117:13pick a lot of mushrooms not psilocybin but a lot of porcini a lot of chanterelles like I do a lot of foraging it's really fun are you aware of Paul Stamets no I don't know he's amazing one of my favorite podcasts ever he's a mycologist a trip in every sense of the word huh a supergenius mycologist whoo the craziest story about being in high school and what do you say took 20 grams of mushrooms and on to tree a lightning storm but something it's something where you hear him tell the story your hands start sweating away he grabs 10 grams or 20 grams like something bananas like something that would kill moose yeah well it wouldn't kill it but it would definitely make it think it's not a moose anymore right and and it essentially changed his life stopped him from stuttering he used to stutter and he did this and he stopped stuff no way yeah I've heard about guys that microdose with mushrooms

118:06with psilocybin and it heightens their focus and curse or autism and you know there's I'm not very well-read on that but there's a whole idea that micro dosing with these chemicals that are naturally produced can actually have very positive effects yeah there's quite a few people do that the only common yeah yeah I've talked to a lot of people that do that it really goes with that and they also micro dose of the LSD there's a lot you have a lot of Silicon Valley people are micro dosing with LSD it's funny cuz the one person that I know that's done the micro desing with mushrooms from Silicon Valley yeah people grind them up into pill form and and in fact a lot of Fighters are doing that now really strange yeah so what would that why would that help you like as a fighter is it it's not a mental focus thing it's a it's a physical thing at that point right well it's gets you

118:51into the flow state interesting and so like with fighters the real thing is it's not just your skill but it's your ability to execute that skill under pressure alright so there's an overwhelming amount of anxiety there's extreme consequences to getting hit or going wrong getting knocked out the losing a fight is absolutely devastating it's devastating emotionally it's devastating physically it's devastating psychologically it changes your perception of who you are and how you fit into the world and that sometimes and not I shouldn't say sometimes oftentimes in peds performance sure I'll kind of come back from it kind of thing it's not just that though the consequences of it possibly go wrong make you hesitate and it just it's it's the stress of it all this very strictly it's very difficult to operate under that stress sure the mushrooms for some people alleviate that stress and

119:44put you in this elevated state where they say and I haven't I've never fought on mushrooms but they say that when you're on mushrooms you actually can see what a guy's gonna do before he does it interest yeah you have a sense of what they're gonna do that's a much more heightened sense than you would if you were just in a normal silver state so are you pickin do you think you're picking that up through like biological cues like you could see the muscles twitching in the arm before the punch comes or like what how do you think that's a good question they've done it I don't know you know I've never sparred on mushrooms or sound like a good idea but that's really common they say it is a good idea the guys who do it love it yeah interest and guys have like you know had some real extreme positive results huh yeah that's fascinating I never thought as an athletic performer

120:30that athletic enhancement that would be a thing yeah it's it's not just the no I don't think it makes you move faster or hit stronger or hit harder but I think what it does is it puts you in the zone interesting there's there's states that you get into where you just you can't do no wrong and these are usually very elusive they come and they go you know you get them like do you ever play pool I did a little bit I mean but you know how sometimes you play pool for a few hours and then you just awesome yeah you just have this feeling of where everything's gonna go that's even if you're not very good sometimes those little conflict to tree shots at sheriff's the zone sure you know and that elusive state of like RIT and then sometimes you're like wow I can't believe I'm in the zone then it goes away right you know right maintaining that flow state what do you think it

121:18takes emotions out of it like is that is that why you're in that state like if you're not emotionally attached to that shot or that punch maybe you can execute it better it's possible I mean there's a lot of speculation of what's going on right what's causing this elevated state of consciousness it's interesting yeah I don't know I'll just start micro dosing on mushrooms and going out che snakes around maybe like maybe you have you like more in tune with the environment or maybe I get bitten and - that's true - really hello to the snake yeah you you are okay so I'm not I'm not like a big drug guy by any means but I think you'll love this story on this amazon trip I told you about we land in this airstrip and then this plane we meet we get into this village and I'm like cool boats have made it here it took the boats five days we're gonna head upriver right and are like

122:03translators like you can't do that yet what do you mean like we've spent months planning this he's like you have to have the shamans blessing to go upriver and I'm like okay what does that mean he's like come to the maloca which is the like spiritual house we go to the spiritual house we sit around and we talk and we talk and we talk and it's like hours of not like asking him to go but just like almost like idle conversation where he's almost like interviewing us like well what are you doing where are you going where are you from and he doesn't really understand any of this right he's like he's living in this community long story short he goes okay you can go but you have to take this blessing and we're like sure well whatever you need for us to go so he pulls out the snail shell I could show you a picture of it it's a snail shell with a monkey bone in the top and

122:45a tube worm to close it and in the snail shell is this green powder and he's like this is what you need for the blessing so he goes around the circle and threw a monkey bone pipe he blows this green stuff in your nose they're called the Kouhei not nothing like that word that we heard I couldn't the name of the pipe no no the stuff they blow up your nose is it DMT it's coca leaf Oh mixed with a bunch of a root and tobacco I believe like all together and anyway so he goes there's five of us in my crew he goes around the circle and he hits three guys and they all go oh my brain feels like I've got chlorine on the head you know whatever lows it into your nose yeah so it gets really close it's got this long tubular monkey bone pipe and it goes and it just blows it up into your nose and hits three of my guys and I'm watching a little bit nervous because like I'm very

123:31like standoffish on drugs like I I know things affect me very strangely anyway hits three my guys they go wolf you know eyes watering and they're like wow it's a it's actually a great feeling gets to my turn in the nose all of a sudden I feel like I've got acid on my brain like chlorine in my head I break into the sweat my eyes explode and I'm like wobbling like this and it thirty seconds later I'm just curled over in the fetal position just project vomiting cannot hold it together and Lorenzo this the the tribal shaman goes good good and we're like why is this good and he's like he had a bad spirit in him if he had gone up the river he would have been killed he's just got the bad spirit out this is why I had to bless you now you can go and I was the only one that it hit like that our five person crew everybody else was like my brain sore whatever I was literally fetal position feverish

124:24puking crate and I've never done any drugs like hard drugs like it's just not my thing and this thing just hit me like a ton of bricks after he said that did you think it was Europe I mean you're a scientist you're very smart guy but was there a part of you that was like man this guy right yes that's what's so crazy because I'm a scientist I don't want to believe that I don't want to believe jungle medicine made me not die but this guy here I have nobody else affected I'm sitting in the fetal position puking my brains out and the guy's going good now you'll be safe and the whole trip I've got that in the back of my mind going maybe the whole reason nothing's going wrong is because I just had green powder blow it up my nose whoa yeah super weird and I nothing has ever affected me like that I mean curled up puking no shivering well you trying to make logical sense out of this we try

125:15it was it was there ever a thought we were like maybe in this extreme environment that's so utterly different than any other place in the world that these rules are different absolutely I mean I I'm sitting there going going into it I'm like cool yeah I'll do the stupid powder if it means I can go on my expedition you know what I mean like I'm not like embracing it I'm just like going through the motion to get my job done as a scientist and then I had this experience and I'm not saying I was enlightened or awoken or anything like that but all of a sudden I attributed my success and my safety in small part to this green powder blown up my nose by a shaman through a monkey bone and the thing about it is even if that's not true if you think it's true and then you wind up being okay and you have confidence that you're going to be okay and maybe you have less anxiety and make

126:10better critical decisions because you think that everything's going to work exactly exactly totally because I was super focused on my mission right we we were very very successful in what we set out to do and I I feel like because I had that crazy experience and here's this old little jungle Indian going now you're now you're gonna be okay I didn't have any anxiety going into the situation and before that I had no thought of it ever playing apart well like the mindfuck of the placebo effect right totally we know that that's real so there's a some sort of a physical effect by believing that something works right but is there a physical change in the way you interface with reality if you believe that you've experienced some sort of spiritual enriching and that some sort of some bad spirit has been released from your body is that possible I think so I think it changes your own

127:06reality because of your perception of the outside world that is a freaky thing for a scientist to say right right and and this is like I am a hardcore academic I've never considered spirituality religion anything and I had this just ten days ago this crazy experience that is like changed my mindset on on crazy jungle medicine and drugs and catching animals everything because this one guy blew crap up my nose and I puked everywhere Wow now has this made you one experiment with other plant medicines no the only reason I did that is because it was a necessity to do what I was doing it was coming from an expert if you will but a person who saw it as a necessity to do what I was doing and I was under his guidance mmm to go out and you know pick a mushroom and try it and have an experience is I don't I don't see the benefit in that but when someone who lives in that community

127:58embraces that wild jungle says this is my home and this is how you do it I will absolutely do it so you'd do it like out of respect absolutely yeah what if they wanted you out of respect there's a bunch of those different snuffs that they pump up their nose and one of them is I think it's it's some form of five methoxy dimethyltryptamine which is that stuff that comes off a toads Oh gotcha yep there's there's and it has a bunch of other stuff in it too and they do the same thing that's what I think that one's called a Kouhei okay I've read it so I don't know if I'm saying that right that must be a hallucinogen yeah they blow it up your nose and you see Jesus I mean look if it was the same situation where he's telling me you got to do this to go to work do your job whatever and absolutely I do it out of respect yeah wouldn't you yes yeah yeah I think you kind of have

128:43to totally be an I mean I think you know when you're in the world of these people and they've survived in this world for eons and this is their environment and like you kind of kind of have to let go and give in to this absolutely yeah you have to embrace it mm man don't you live a cool life it's weird it's really cool thanks really cool well thank you for coming here man and sharing this stuff with us and and and thanks for doing what you do it's awesome I love it it's been an absolute pleasure I've really enjoyed it what are you thinking about on the show tell people how to get a hold of you and Instagram Twitter and all that chance yep I'm my name forest Galante forr est Galante I'm on all the social media platforms as it force.com on time on Instagram yes on the others there's no dot look me up love chatting to people and thank you thank you again my

129:38pleasure man was really fun thank you thank you