Christopher Ryan

00:04three-two-one is that a Fasano guard house that was a weird point that was not it wasn't sure if that was the gun Chris Ryan everybody hey I'm good dude the van van through college out there man dojo Vance and I call her you just traveling that thing I just got back from a month on the road yeah Wow to New Orleans and back I was just New Orleans too but it only took three hours yeah I took a scenic route how many days it take to drive to New Orleans you know we stopped a lot along the way yeah but I don't know 10 12 days something like that you want to stop we actually went down along the border we were in Bisbee state now he was in Asia he was you know Southeast Asian that's how like when you think of Bisbee you think of Stano there's an extra bowl at this point it's not much reason to go to Bisbee you didn't visit Stanley went to Phoenix and didn't visit a guy that you knew there

01:06it's like I'm sorry man I got really busy yes that's normal but if you went to Bisbee and didn't visit Stanhope yeah how many people are in Bisbee I don't know but their luck it's a strange little place have you been there no I'm scared it's like this giant open pit mine and like the hills are all kind of purple and weird colors cuz it's all slag from the mine really yeah it's it's a toxic looking place I gotta say Christ I don't know why anyone would choose to live their real estate crashes dr. Chris Ryan trash is going down I'm not saying anything that isn't pretty obvious if you drive through town I'm sure there are nice parts of town I don't know we just drove through I was I the coolest thing about this van is I've combined it with the podcast and so I'm traveling and I'm also meeting people along the way some of which are planned like if Stanhope had been around and was willing

02:04to hang would definitely what a hung with him but others just come up like right near Bisbee see people follow me on so from media and they're like oh I see you're in Texas you should visit my buddy in terlingua and I did and I'll tell you that's not in a minute but near Bisbee this woman Dorothy I think her name was wrote to me and she's like dude you're in southern Arizona you got a drop in on my buddy the rattlesnake guy who's been studying rattlesnakes for 50 years by himself he's not looking for fame or anything but I'll talk to him I think he'd he'd like you and you guys would enjoy each other's company and so I'm like sure I'll talk to the rattlesnake guy perfect so he came out to this campsite and we hung out for the morning this guy is amazing at John Porter's his name he's been studying snakes for 50 years he's just totally interested in them that

02:57lives on next to nothing and a trailer in the desert that's his focus he's been bit 15 times Jesus yeah what keeps you with snakes after bite number 11 yeah I know full might be 10 times shame on me this job sucks like how many years has you been doing it 50 years 50 he's almost 70 that's incredible and he's in really good shape he scrambles around in the hills and and pulls snakes out of holes and Wow yeah he's uh he's a really interesting cat and he's just like that's his passion that's what he does now did he do the slow amount of venom in his system to try to make himself immune you can't be immune to it because what I learned what from him one of many things I learned from him is that rattlesnake venom is essentially digestive enzymes Wow and what what happens is they bite an animal the animal runs off 20 feet or something before it collapses the enzymes are

04:00digesting the animal from within because they don't have enough enzymes within their own digestive tract to digest the whole thing from outside right so when they get the animal inside them they're digesting it simultaneously from outside in and then from inside out so that's why what a monster these are the snakes that that strike warm in animals right and then this the ones that eat cold-blooded animals they have the neurotoxins that's a different type there's a terrifying video that I put on my Instagram a couple years ago I think you said rattlesnake one you'll never find it it's like way back there Jamie's smile it's our call it's a challenge i retweeted or reposted somebody else's some guys were hunting and a rattlesnake was pulling a rabbit and just the way this demon thing just pulled this poor little fuzzy rabbit but I instantly made the differentiation I

04:59did instantly differentiated which one I was on team like whose team I'm on I'm on Team Fuffy fluffy and furry wrong ways right anything that's furry well yes unless you've got a gun in or a bow in your hands well to eat it yes I think the dog was delicious no no I'm not judging it at all but what I'm saying is it's but if something else was going after that snake if something had killed it's like a coyote had killed a snake yeah I really wouldn't be bothered by it or something that bothers me for whatever weird reason I think of a rabbit as being not just a rodent and light warm there do mean I think of it being like Peter Cottontail or something stupid like in your head herbivores are innocent Yeah right they're not out there with other animals very few herbivores sometimes the a lot of the birds yeah they birds when they can but they're more just opportunist

05:49like every bird can't move they'll eat a baby bird right yeah what is this snake first rabbit no it's actually dragging a rabbit in the desert it looks like we're in the mountain oh yeah this is the one where the moms save the babies oh is that what it was yeah that happened to me once look at this the mom rabbit comes over oh she sees what's going on wow that is crazy that is crazy now that's not the one this one was a rattlesnake a big-ass rattlesnake and it was dry it was just a way it was dragging this rabbit around was so intense when I was a kid I I used to think I was an Indian you know and I'd wander around the neighborhood in a loincloth are you allowed to do that today or would you get culturally-appropriate Rocco I'll come after you I probably I mean I indecent exposure to because there wasn't wearing underwear Oh terrible person but would you join cloth made out of

06:48bath towel purple bath towel so just fold it in thirds and I'd have a belt come up and hang down in the front of that seriously I was totally into it but anyway I was wandering on the neighborhood in my indian thing and I saw this rabbit and there was a bush with these hard little fruits on it and I grabbed on these fruits and I threw it at the rabbit and I hit it and the rabbit started flopping and boom just lay there I was like I just killed that with a piece of fruit with a hard like a little crab apple or something right so I walk over and I look at the rabbit and it's just laying there and then I hear this squeak squeak-squeak-squeak under this pine tree and I go and there's this nest of little baby rabbits with their eyes still closed little tiny ones I just killed their mother dude I was like I so I took the babies home crying she really did kill the mother

07:46with a crabapple yeah dude you should what major league she'd been playing for the Dodgers well check out that kind of pitch so I took the the babies home and the next-door neighbor my friend's mother was a nurse and I showed her and she had like a syringe without the needle and she showed me you have to mix can't give them straight milk because the rabbit milk is thinner so you have to mix water with it and all the stuff and I was feeding them and and then I went back actually a little while later maybe not another next day or something and the big rabbit was gone which then later in life I thought maybe it wasn't dead maybe it was faking it to try to save the babies to distract me somehow more likely you k out it it made me just a knockout yeah you knocked out the rabbit that makes sense because if you get hit in the head with something that you don't see coming it's very

08:36likely your brain could just shut off right yeah so anyway I raised these rabbits until I don't know a few weeks until their eyes opened Wow yeah and then we do them boil em er you know then we had to go visit my my uncle in Ohio and I left the rabbits with this girl and told her how to take care of them and all that and the girl apparently forgot about mixing the water and so by the time I got back after three-day weekend a couple of them had died but she didn't want to tell me and you know we were ten eleven right and actually it was all through the biology teacher and then it turned out by the time that she told them they were all dead right I'll just died they probably would have a hard go of it anyway yeah yeah that's crazy maybe you missed your calling baseball baseball so boring it's definitely boring it's one of those things you couldn't and people right now are

09:37screaming you yeah well your fans hate me anyway that's definitely not true attention to those comments oh they're amusing there are only the people that would comment something shitty yeah the only ones that are gonna get to you right also there's a lot of cuck beta stuff because they assume I am in an open relationship and so therefore there's all that kind of stuff yeah that cut thing that's interesting anyone who would call someone else a or a beta male is most likely I don't think you could say anyone because sometimes people just are and some people say it and they're correct but I think you're not in an argument okay you aren't in an argument with them you don't know them right you guys aren't so why they insulting you why they going after it's because of insecurity well it's also because of this weird way of expressing each other ourselves on instant you know on Twitter

10:33yeah Facebook and stuff this is too instant that instantaneous ability to just go after something you don't meet them you don't establish a friendship with them you know that hawked that's why I'm saying it's a reflection as a psychologist I find it really interesting because it's an it's it's you know you see these guys every day there's another story about an anti-gay you know Minister who wins sucking little boys dicks every day or even big black guys did whatever you whatever Dixie's into but if he's trying to like prey the gay away yeah for sure there's some gays going on somewhere I think we reveal our deepest secrets in our loudest accusations I think you're right you know and so this whole the the trolling and stuff going on online is interesting because people don't realize that they're exposing themselves you know yeah well it's it's also it's a

11:26really shitty way of interacting with humans that some people participate in almost exclusively like there's some people right now in our culture that they're communicating with people but the people that they're communicating with they're they're only communicating with people online they're only doing it through Twitter or on Facebook or however they do it so like their days are spent interacting just randomly with people tweeting at them and reading tweets or reading you know reading message board posts or posting things or reading Instagram you know passages all they're doing is interacting with people online and I just think there's a lot of kids developing that way because they're not even even when they're around each other they're spending more time communicating with people through a device than they are doing it face-to-face because they're always

12:18distracted and I feel like this is a very it's it's not indicative of how we evolved like these this method of communication so like people say there's way more hate today than has ever been before I don't think so I think it's the same amount of hate there's just this new weird form of expression that doesn't make you take into consideration the other people's feelings it's like the only time we've ever had something like that like if you killed someone or you beat someone up and you looked at them and they looked at you and you knew that you hated them at least that's an honest attack yeah you know but if you're if you want something terrible to happen to someone and you don't even know them he's heard him on a podcast he was a guest he annoyed you he want terrible things to happen to him like you're not even you don't even know him it's like traffic anger you know

13:06you like yeah you don't know that guy in that car know where that comes from though right traffic anger comes from a heightened sense of awareness cuz you're going so fast cuz you're in your car or scared yeah well you're wrapped up yeah you're looking constantly for anything to go wrong you can't be at zero and just drive when you're driving you're very aware that you're at the wheel of a big thing and then car accidents happen and people die in them well everybody's aware of that so yeah although it's funny I wrote a motorcycle everyday for about seven years and I felt very calm on the motorcycle I think cuz freedom its freedom and vulnerability do yeah both of Java hardly know is BMW I'm a guy I'm not a murder guy and some European thing buying rights to good find low center of gravity yeah I drove that like a grandpa to I was like I never got pulled over

13:58because in Spain I never had a Spanish license really yeah that's amazing cuz in summation say that I love probably not it's too late now yeah but the thing in Spain is funny because if you come from you know Mexico Uganda wherever and you immigrate to Spain and you get residency you have to turn in your driver's license and they'll give you Spanish license right the only country where they won't honor your license is United States Wow you got to go to driving school that night school for six weeks take the ridiculous test that's designed to trick you and it's the translation into English is incomprehensible it's and then you got to do it again it's like 4000 euros it's a giant scam and it was only for us only for America and the reason is that all these Spanish kids were coming to the u.s. doing like high school exchange thing and to get it you have to be 18 to get a driver's license

14:57in Spain but in the u.s. 16 obviously so they would come here and it's 16 they'd get a driver's license and then they'd go back to Spain and say hey give me the license you got to do it it's long it's a Spain they talk to the American government like hey stop giving Spanish kids licenses and the u.s. is like you we do it the way we do it we're number one and it was like all right America and so now it's a giant pain in the ass if you're an American living in Spain oh man so what happens if you get caught and you don't have a license if you're driving around you line how much a few hundred euros that seems like a bargain that's what I get paid over ten times I was like what you do is make pretend you're a tourist right just in town have your passport right you know don't have a vehicle registered in your name not that I would ever do any of these things yeah I was

15:47reading about expats and about people who just decide to just like go and move over to Europe for a while yeah that's not like up such an adventuresome thing to do if you really think about it as an American because Americans are for sure locked into our way of thinking like there's a don't want to speak for the whole group but when you think of the typical American you think of someone who just they like things the way they have them here you know this is the best we're number one well those are the people expats are getting away from yeah there's a lot but but the point is like if you even have a niggling of that and then you decide to move to Italy for a year yeah that will go away you will realize like oh okay whatever form one I think that's one of the reasons why people cling so hard to those norms I go because they know I think they know that Cambodia is

16:39different and if they were living in Cambodia they'd be living like Cambodians they know that Laos is different they know that Vietnam is different how could that be how could these people in these other places be just like you just a person but they walk around in a rice paddy all day and they push an ox and they don't have cell phones like how did that happen could that have happened to you like if you just got a weird roll the dice and instead of coming out with a seven you came out with a three could you have been in Laos if you unless you know I mean it mean and from a lousy ins perspective he got the 70 and you got the three oh for sure you make some guy take a cubicle job I used to working yeah outside beautiful weather house is great I've been there that's a beautiful beautiful country gorgeous on video I've never seen in real life but yeah but that

17:28whole thing well that's why I traveled all through my 20s and 30s was for that insight yeah you've got to see it you got to see it and you got a in person right yeah and you got a move slowly enough that you joseph campbell call daddy tribal ization right to to understand that you are from a tribe right everybody thinks everyone else has an accent but i don't you know there are all these biases that were unaware of until you get out and look back at yourself and where you came from and so I was you know I was based in Spain for 25 years really you know God in disbanded I've lived in Spain longer than I've lived in any other country well you don't speak Spanish try do for supuesto Aleppo yes Katie says I speak I speak badly but you speak it yeah I understand everything and I sound like I gave a talk in Argentina once and they came up after and they said I sounded

18:29like somebody said I sounded like a Catalan gringo because I learned Spanish in Catalunya so I had this very specific accent in Spanish which I'm totally unaware of of course intellectually that makes sense to me but my brain is like what different Spanish accent how the could you tell yeah well it's like obviously you can it's a Spanish person who learns English in Scotland right yeah they sound Scottish I'm speaking right yeah for sure or more it mean how many number of people that come from other countries that speak Spanish or speak English rather but they speak it with the accent of their place kidding yes even Canadians is so subtle about a boat a boat yeah yeah I went to university yeah you know and you see here a a few two times and they're a little bit to play like hey from yeah I love with Canadians are asking where they're from or what part of the states are you from

19:21and they say I'm from Canada I'm like yeah yeah whatever is like Europe James Brown has a song called living in the USA right and he goes through and you know how he does like he calls out cities right you know it's living in North America I guess that's his thing right yeah isn't that crazy I shared at North America my first apartment in Barcelona I shared with this guy named Julio from Rogelio Gutierrez from Colombia that's his serious name and I was just learning Spanish then and he got he got really pissed off at me when I said I was American because he's like we're all Americans dude Colombia South America America is the whole Western Hemisphere you arrogant estado Nev in seis that's what I had learned to say in the Spanish that means from the United States Estados state Unni then say students are united yeah so I just remember that I just remember who stato estaba you speak

20:32any foreign language no no I took I took Italian in college and Spanish in high school and remember none of it I took three years of German in the middle school high school because I initially signed up for Spanish which would have been the smart move but then over the summer I was like eighth grade I think and over the summer this girl named Judy Gump I just I lusted after Judy Gump hmm she was this lying about judy judy golf was like the 15 year old who was totally built and you know gorgeous and smart and going out with a 23 year old dewclaw camaro and Here I am with my zits and braces and I'm thinking I got a shot at good Judy Gump so I see was taking German and she said oh but there are only eight people in the class I don't know if they're gonna do it cuz you should have nine and it's like Judy I'm gonna call the school and switch over to German and I did Wow i

21:33sat in that class for three years with hair Flint and Judy never had a shot at Judy of course and then hair Flint I could not I have no talent for language I'm like I'm alright in English but like when you start talking grammar in the accusative case and you know in German there are three genders and you know there's dieter das masculine feminine and neutral and every now and has a gender and it's like a nightmare so it's neutral for objects like thoughts boots yeah right objects but also it's weird because like machen girl is neutral and you would think girl would have a feminine generous neutral yeah that's that's machen but anyway hair Flint was also the soccer coach so we sort of had this unspoken agreement that if I was on the soccer team he would pass me in German even though I was lost constantly I mean I would have failed out for sure but he would give me a C as long as I was on

22:36the soccer team not that I was any soccer star it's just that he needed enough people on the team that they'd keep paying him or they'd shut it down so my memory of German is basically humiliation from Judy gum because I never got anywhere humiliation in the class because I couldn't understand a thing and humiliation on the soccer field because not only did I suck at soccer but he would scream at me and German was in the German club so it was like it was my tutoring or something so like my mind um cop FLE yeah yeah okay in my Italian class in high school there was this really friendly beautiful Puerto Rican girl she was beautiful like she was a type of girl that I would've been way too nervous to ask out a way too nervous to approach I just would have meand I would have needed a bunch of green lights to talk to her I beat super nervous but she would approach me

23:28and she was always inviting me to go places with her yeah her and her friends and I'm like well what are you guys doing well we're going you know like a campout we're gonna do this thing and there was this uh get away for the weekend like one of them I couldn't do so I was fighting back then one of them I couldn't do cuz I had a fight and one of them I couldn't do because I think I don't remember what the reason was but it was it was enough of a reason that I would say no this hot Puerto Rican girl asked me to go somewhere with her on the weekend it's beta kook behavior she was so hot she was so hot she was built like a woman I mean we're both I think I was probably 19 and so she was probably 19 - she was a she was a phenom I mean her body was just holy SuperDuper pretty and SuperDuper friendly so I'm thinking one day this is gonna happen right yeah so I go to the

24:20lunch room one day and it was the day that it was a Trump airplane I know I've talked about this before the Trump airline the the runway gear didn't come down and its skid like remember when Trump had an airline do you remember that vaguely yeah yeah a airline side of it course and I'm pretty sure it was him or maybe it was JetBlue now I'm gonna think about it it might not have been Trump or might have happened but either way this airplane skid in you know they had to foam up the runway the whole deal and things skied in without the gear and I showed up and was her and her friends landing gear fails on Trump jet no injuries okay 1989 that is it that's exactly when it was happening you're in high school in 1989 oh so that was 89 that must have been I was 21 no that doesn't make sense there must been another one see if there was one from earlier because when I was

25:1621 I had already given up on the idea of college are you gonna say given up on the idea of her no I was like what am i doing when I was 21 I was like this is just too ridiculous and then I started doing stand-up yeah was it one seven there was a 87 Mexico City air disaster Belize air International Mexico City crash no it wasn't a crash it was the same thing the landing gear wouldn't throttle down I've been an airline runway in my memory sucks was it in in Boston it was in Boston you know there you go yeah I just can't imagine that I was 89 I was 21 anyway so what happened with the woman and yeah no it's definitely not 89 because I was I was already doing stand-up by 89 so I'm sorry I sit down hundreds of thousands of people are going to sit down you guys hear what happened today at the airport yeah and they'll know what happened I go this jet came in and the landing gear didn't drop

26:10so it had a skid across the runway ago but everybody's okay and they all go praise God oh praise God and I went oh that's the weekend getaway this is that weekend getaway it's an indoctrination to a Christian cult they were bananas they were in they were super proselytizing they would go everywhere and sit down with people that by themselves and if you saw if they thought you were lonely or an outcast they would send in the hot one she would come and sit next to you invite you places and then they pull you into the fold and they were just recruiting people left and right to join and then like I noticed as the class would go on like later in the semester I noticed some of the people from the class were now in that little tight group and they don't like hang to get it was very strange I was like I was watching people get like they got coltd up yeah that was

27:02watching it happen but it was all like standard standard you know Christian stuff but extremely involved in your life very rabid and you know and recruit and proselytizing everyone and the fact of this how it it was very strange because I was like cute dummy of course she doesn't like you she wants to bring you to Jesus well you know maybe if she was gonna you to Jesus I didn't think so yeah I didn't have much confidence back then I believe it or not I didn't think it was gonna happen you know does anyone have confidence at 19:20 really dumb kids yeah when I was 19 I was like I just kiddin nothing made any sense I might have been 20 when it happened yeah if you think you got it figured out in 19 or 20 you're destined for a life you know stacking shelves somewhere I can't imagine it was in an 89 it doesn't make any sense let's my whole timeline for when I quit college is off I just

27:58finished watching binge watching this new Netflix documentary about the Rajneesh II you know the suneo-san thing or a Wild West wild wild country well country yeah that's amazing it's really good how many six episodes I think yeah we just binge watched it I have a buddy who was a sunny osen for 15 years maybe something like that he wasn't in Oregon though he was always in in India but yeah that's very interesting and the the whole sort of appeal of the cult and and the the hunger to be part of this community and it's a very interesting documentary yeah well I don't think it's - I don't think it'd be very hard at all to start a cult I just don't think it's very difficult I think well some people would say you already have well maybe but you could do whatever you want I mean yes no no no one's asking you for how many stories do you have up your game there

29:00you're like instead of the Rolls Royces you got the Porsches your car the Porsche gurus I'm realizing I like old cars old cars they don't even have to drive as good yeah they don't have the third different thing you ever heard of Mickey Avalon yes I had him on my podcast recently really interesting and smart guy yeah and he in addition to being a rapper and whatever he does he Simon Rex is a good friend of mine Dirt Nasty and when we're on tour together anyway so I I was talking with the Mickey and it turns out Mickey restores antique cars Wow and he's got like 20 of them likes like Model T's and like that's really interesting cars their heart man yes this is what an old car they're just a it's a different thing you know what's cool to see the process of them figuring out how to design cars at faster and faster his car 61 Impala a Rockford Fosgate equipped 61 Impala I

30:06love that sort of Art Deco lines yeah so what he's doing is I mean I mean I think that is a what they would call restomod you know what they take an old this is that that's the best of both worlds they take an old car and they put modern brakes and the modern suspension right and they're just safer and they ride better you can even swap out the engine oh yeah they all do the lot of them do I should say they use modern fuel-injected engines you can buy them from almost all the companies Ford sells crate engines and people put them in old Mustangs and it's amazing I love those most dude some of those cars are just you look at him and you're like god damn like what how did they do it so good then and why like you look at those old Mustangs or old Corvettes like there are a few years where Corvettes just couldn't have been more beautiful have you ever seen my 1965 I don't think so

31:01dude it's the quarter way this car I've ever seen in my life I have a 1965 silver 1965 Corvette Convertible Wow and I just and I just sit in front of it I think I may have seen it did you and Jay Leno drive around yeah were you in Topanga no I remember watching that collision thinking they're dry oh yeah look at that no we went beautifully angels Crest Highway that cars two years older than me sort of see but sort of is the real thing like the outside is but everything in the inside and as far as like dashboard and stuff is well you've had the hip replacements and stuff that's yeah this car is a meum everything in that car is modern in terms of like the brakes and the engines engines from a 2007 Corvette yeah they just do that then that way like you're driving around in an old car but it it breaks good it handles good it's not a deathtrap right but as getting back to the cult thing

32:00you know I think some of the mechanisms the psychological mechanisms that make that possible apply to what's happening in podcasting these days yes and the beautiful thing about podcasting is so far no one has taken advantage of it and started some compound somewhere and banged everybody's wife and required you to give up all of your financial money and it's very worldly goods and yeah I got a patreon account though um Australian guy that said he was Jesus pretty interesting because there's this whole documentary on it and he has this woman and the woman said that he said that she was married then like halfway to the documentary it was real if there was another girl in the past and he said she was married to that girl thinks she's married and he thinks he's Jesus it's it's hilarious Mary was Jesus's mother right yes so they're partying together and bangin

33:01because the reincarnated Mary so Jesus and this year he's his own no I don't know I love my I don't know all right she's not married the mother she's Mary Magdalene the oh the prostitute there you go now it's fittin in flames maybe the other Mary was the mom Jesus was hanging with the hookers and very accepting of sex workers yeah why not I mean God made people horny God knew what he was doing I mean but God made us monogamous Joe he started have an intervention that Weinstein yeah you're gonna get me married you know um I told you in an email that I felt bad when your book came up on the show and I didn't know how to defend it I didn't know what to do because I didn't I was in that weird moment where I was recommending it because I liked it because I think it's a great book and he was saying that just debunked well I think he said you picked data yeah right which is always weird

34:17well the thing is any sort of popular non science or nonfiction book is you have to choose what data you're gonna include right I mean there's an infinite amount of data and so of course you form an argument and then you present data that supports your argument did you ever consider arguing against herself sure yeah yeah and in fact the book is you know the book is written as an argument against the standard narrative so you know we had to present this what is the standard narrative who believes this you know who thinks that people evolved as monogamous and so we quote quite heavily from those people but you know the thing is I mean and I really appreciated your email and I you know we don't need to talk about this at any length but it's not your job to defend the book and it's not even my job really to defend the book I think once a book is out it's out right the book is

35:14there you but isn't it it's not just the book it's that when someone goes hard on a book it's it's they're doing it about you as well it's expression of your work but see that's the thing I don't accept that Association and so if somebody wants to critique the book that's totally cool and and like look are there things that we may have misunderstood of course are the things we left out of course there are you know mistakes of course you know that's right there's your human you made it right there are hundreds of citations in that book now if somebody says as people have like you know Chris Ryan you know deliberately misrepresented the science or doesn't understand the first thing about evolution or you know whatever it is I just don't engage because the that's emotional it's like what we were saying earlier about comments online I think people react to sex at dawn very

36:14emotionally right and so if they're reacting emotionally there's no point in me engaging with them because they're expressing some something that's going on in their lives that I don't know anything about and I don't they're suffering in some way I'm not talking about brain right weinstein or anybody specifically but there's an emotional reason to have that kind of reaction whereas if somebody says look on page you know 72 you said that bonobos are the only ape that does this and the actually Gibbons do it as well okay we can talk about that you know that's that's factual Brian so when people say oh it's cherry-picked well which cherries what are you talking about right you know a specific thing and that's wrong with it right right instead of saying it's cherry-picking his vast general credit critique of the book like well right and if it gets about me right like oh that's because he

37:05wants to get laid or that was one of the art was that it would be a good book to write I think I don't remember if he said or if his wife said that it would be a good book and I really love those two they're great they're cool I just think when it comes to monogamy and sexuality people have notion in their head and that notion almost always aligns with how they're living their life or how they wish they were living their lives yeah maybe and again we're not talking about specifically I never meant damn I know they're a great couple they're wonderful people but I mean there's there's something about the subject of your book I think I told you this before without many many names my friend brought your book home and his wife threw it away yeah you and I talked about that on the very first podcast actually yeah yeah yeah run into this a lot right you can imagine cocktail

37:55parties with me can get awkward very quickly know for sure you know because people ask oh wait you're the guy yeah you know and then often you'll see some people are very eager to hear about it and talk about it and other people are just these steams coming out of their ears right I think you know a lot of people are in relationships that they're trying to make fit into what they believe is the right way to have a relationship and often it just doesn't it doesn't work right and so there's a lot of shame and regret and resentment and all kinds of negative energy around that and so any discussion where you're saying well maybe that's not actually the way it's meant to work for some people that's an incredibly liberating message for other people it's extremely threatening right and I understand that and and you know so I've become very emotionally sort of separate from the

38:56book it's out there it stands or not based on its merits I don't when people get all riled up I've learned to just be like yeah you know what that's fine that's between you in the book that's a very healthy approach good for you it's just to me it seems like people that get most upset about it don't get most upset about it for rational reason they get upset about it because it challenges the way they live their life well that's I mean that's all I saying about like the gay preachers and stuff it's like if you're getting that upset yeah it's about you man it's not I mean if you disagree with it then disagree with it this mine is out gay preachers well people who love Jesus and are also gay right you can't do that you can't figure that out how come this guy can start a whole cult in Australia and tell people East Jesus and his girlfriend's marry and you guys can't get together

39:45and form yourself a nice gay church I mean do they have him that I don't know the Vatican did he have you heard all this stuff going on in Italy they've got all their sex parties in their own country do you know that yeah yeah when I was there you know and you when you just walk around the Vatican just see the vast amount of pilfered riches that are all just sucked out by an ideology yeah I mean that's really what it is like that church that whatever the you want to call it religion they just acquired an ungodly amount of wealth literally ungodly ungodly yeah it's stunning yeah Jesus is all about living in poverty and hanging out with sex workers and these guys are like just lavish wealth and it's crazy because if Jesus came back the first thing you'd say it's like what the have you guys done yeah like what have you done look at these gigantic places that you

40:40built and I told you guys you don't even have to be anywhere for this yeah you don't you don't need to have some ornate temple with stained-glass windows and it took craftsmen like like Saint Peter's Basilica like is it a shock that that is probably one of the most stunning things that I've ever seen in my life one of the most beautiful works of art yet was created for this religion that most likely the people that were living in that day were probably like worshipping these people that were running this thing like as if they were deities themselves yeah and they needed them to have the biggest craziest building impress the rooms right when they come in from the countryside and they walk into a Cathedral holy the impact that it has on youse you can't understate it still yeah yeah there there are churches in Barcelona I would go into and I'm I'm a pagan but just go

41:36in there and just feel the space yeah just feel it the dis the you just you your body no is how big it is what can you it's like when you walk into an airplane hangar you know I guess it's it's not something you can't overemphasize how crazy it is like these people built this without power tools I mean I don't know what kind of ladders they used but whatever they did look at that man I mean it's just crazy you walk around that place you can't believe how ornate it is but at the same time this was happening people are starving you know yeah guaranteed like how old is that 1500s you know six 1506 how well do you think everybody was doing financially in 1506 I bet pretty shitty I bet everybody that lived around that place suffered and these were building these crazy places they have an obelisk in this whole place where you're these images right here we Sean from

42:35Egypt this massive stone obelisk from Egypt and I was like okay how the did they get that there yeah it shows you how cheap labor was oh do ya you could hire people for a lifetime for a pittance you know yeah it really skilled artisans yeah and they couldn't go anywhere man yeah what they did in that place I mean the Vatican is just uh it's a stunning place like way more so than I thought it was gonna be have you been to Spain no I have not look at that oh my God look at that yeah that's what is that Jamie what are we looking at is that the roof just st. Peter's Basilica look at the carving and everything and I'm telling you these it's one of those things like you were talking about how you have to see another culture in perfo in person in order to really appreciate it I think that's the same with this thing st. Peter's Basilica is one of those ones when you're there like look how little

43:29those people are walking around down there see the top of their heads that's it's the place is giant yeah beautiful light coming through there unbelievable it's it's it's one of those game changers yeah well you leave there like to me it was way more impressive than the Colosseum huh calcium is very impressive but it wasn't as impressive it's not intact right but it's not even that's like what it is what it is just craziness he's the crate one pressive thing was the elevator complex they'd set up animals up like that it's nuts man do you ever think about the Colosseum when you're doing UFC commentary and it's kind of like this modern a little bit right yeah it's definitely a big violent distraction from everyday life that people really look forward to and enjoy yeah you know for like entertainment value I mean it says it's primal as you can get without anybody really dying you

44:23know I mean it's most of the time most of the time yeah I mean no one has in the UFC Oh ever but it's because they have the most stringent rules and because they have the best medical staff and the best referees and all that stuff but it's also just luck it's like people can die sparring it happens what if you're if you're in a chokehold and you don't tap out you just go unconscious and then when they and then you be all right and you can feel when someone goes unconscious their muscles really yeah you just slump in the referee sometimes I really like pick up an arm like the old pro wrestling move like they would check to see if the guy was still awake I did pick the arms come back but they do do that sometimes referee I've seen referees pick a guy's arm up see if the guy responds or girl Epstein girls get choked down bunch but you know people are tough they don't want to tap and

45:17then you end up going to sleep Holly Holm when she fought Miesha Tate Miesha Tate choked her unconscious and before Holly went out she was throwing punches in the air and she went unconscious oh it's crazy it's crazy it was primals like drownings like watching someone drown yeah you know so it's just you know you have a preference for how you die drowning drownings my one of my least favorite seems like it would suck yeah yeah I don't want to do that yeah I have a buddy's a big wave surfer and like 40-foot waves shout-out to Kyle and he did breath-holding course and he can hold his breath for five minutes Jesus because he goes you know if you get caught on one of those waves you like down in the deep for a long time yeah yeah some really interesting he was telling me some really interesting things like when a human being puts its face in the water all sorts of

46:15physiological changes start happening your metabolism immediately slows way down your oxygen consumption cuts way back just automatically we've got a lot of seemingly evolutionary adaptations to living in the water yeah have you ever heard that aquatic ape theory sure does that make any sense does it fit someone should have already known that already it makes here's what it does in my opinion it we should explain it yeah the idea is I first read about it in a book by Buckminster Fuller actually great you know about him yes genius the idea is that there according to people who support this theory there was a period in human evolution where our ancestors lived in tidal areas so they spent most of their time in the water that was about body temperature so it was comfortable and it was shallow enough that they weren't worried about sharks coming in and deep enough that leopards

47:19and other predators from the land couldn't get at them so it was safe in that respect also you have great sight lines so you can see if something's coming from a long way off and there's lots of food there lots of mollusks and fish and you can net and so it sort of made sense that they would be there and so we have these physiological adaptations for aquatic living like for example human infants are the only Apes certainly I don't know primate probably the only primates that know to hold their water or hold their breath underwater mmm so like that great Nirvana album cover of the baby so you take a baby and drop them in water and it holds its breath right it's just temperature you can die yeah whoops yeah Jim Stone can't even swim so there's that there's the fact that babies are really fat so they float you can't teach chimps to swim no and also chimps don't

48:14have enough body fat to be buoyant right they're super corded steel yeah their bodies yeah yeah I didn't know they could never teach them to swim that makes sense though but they're so smart I guess they just can't do it huh I don't know but yes if you see lots of you know contemporary zoos they have the chimps surrounded by a moat right that's the moat Wow what a bummer they'll wade in water I've seen chimps waiting but that's onesy you know maybe then there's also the connection between eating fish and fish oil and brain health right and there's a very strong correlation between fish oil and brain health yeah so it could be related to fatty hello yeah and also you would have to be clever to try to dive into the water to go after those things the smarter ones would probably survive right even the nostrils like you know aybe nostrils come straight out in the face and the idea of

49:11our nostrils facing down is related to this aquatic Wow explanation the oil glands that we have on our heads and faces and shoulders that you know cause acne and stuff and teenagers you know that's for protection from the Sun apparently so there are lots of adaptations that seem to fit into this interpretation but you know lots of the sort of mainstream evolutionary theorists would say well wait a minute you know there are other adaptations we don't have and that we would have if that had been the case so it's it's controversial at best part of it was also the theory that the human brain in order for us to be born vaginally the brain could only be so big before the kid was born right well that's so much yeah I mean that's the explanation for why humans are born helpless right no but what I'm saying is that we really can't the brain can't get any bigger

50:05right like the vaginal canal unless our dicks get bigger and the vaginas get bigger as well I still hold bit about that about dick pills but if there really were dick pills no one's stopping at one like what's the dosage okay how much gives me a stroke I'm gonna take one less than that all the dice yeah or risk it and the idea would that be every dudes dick would just become a super dick and every woman would be you know she it was a joke about flying squirrel people they would just jump dudes with big dicks and shopping carts we chased these girls to the edge of cliffs then women would leap off whether Aegina have to morph it have to change for the big dick pills but it doesn't it does seem like if humans are gonna get smarter if the head is gonna have to get larger does that make any sense or is that just a crude way of looking at the brain is it possible that people can get

50:57smart we evolved yeah if we evolved from lower hominids it's generally assumed that those lower hominids had little brains or littler brains than us right up until like Australia Pittacus or something yeah what really seems to matter though is the ratio of brain size to body size right there are plenty of animals that have bigger brains than us that aren't just obviously aren't smarter than us like elephant elephants blue whales I mean a blue whale brains probably the size of this room do we know if elephants are super smart because isn't the thing about intelligence is not just like there's communication between elephants for sure and you know that they recognize each other after long periods of time yeah like 20 years apart they get together and they see each other and recognize each other instantly sure so there's a there's an intelligence that but but we

51:44judge intelligence oftentimes depends on whether or not it can communicate with you whether or not it changes its environment builds a structure I mean that's to me this is one of the deepest questions in life do you see the elephant that painted a picture of it's sure yeah that's crazy yeah and Thailand I think yes yeah pull that up that is one of those things we go okay wait a minute a dog can't do that I thought you said this thing was as smart as a dog because that's yeah that's a hundred times and there are like grey parrots that have you know 300 word vocabularies or something yeah I mean I don't don't quote me on the number but Jamie can look that up there's they can speak a whole like sentence yeah and they can and there's a guy I remember seeing this recently there's a guy as a border collie who obviously can't talk but understands well over a hundred words

52:36and so what he'll do is like you'll put all these different toys behind a wall and you'll say go get me the the yellow bunny and there's like a yellow bunny a red button in a green bunny in addition to hundreds of other and the dog will go find the yellow bunny and bring it back whoa you know go get me the you know the green turtle and you'll go get it so the dog knows those words right and also the dog sees in color I guess it's a predator I guess I've never seen color yeah I think so here's the the elephant painting itself it is crazy because it really looks like itself and this guy helps it and gets the brush and puts it in its hand but the elephant is essentially doing all of this with its trunk and just replicating itself and it's proportional to its it's really got like the dude was holding his tusks yeah like they're training them to do that I

53:30think well I'm sure they're training or is he just pulling the brush goes were Winsett is he look at the trunk like he's definitely holding but look at the trunk and look at how much motion is in that thing how could he possibly be controlling that he's definitely lifting it up and down at helping them though yeah but they were what it is is they're working together like the elephant knows to stay in these lines it's doing it with him you know buying it there's another one there are other ones but let me see the other one just articles that say that they're being trained to do it and it's a cruel or something okay this one right here this thing doesn't have anybody's hands on it I think this is the one that I had seen before let's see if this in any cases the question of intelligence is so much more complicated than we generally credited with right and not only among animals

54:27but also among humans there's this big controversy that's you know perennial controversy that's the problem right now we're constantly looking at another video this is the one that I had seen and it's nobody's nobody's touching it's nobody's controlling him here and well he doesn't have any tusks it looks like does he know so that looked like the guy was just giving him the brush and he was doing it why don't they pull back though so you could see if that's true so this is the one that I had seen before you hadn't seen the other one yeah this is unassisted I would imagine that if you did get a guy like this that teaches his elephant how to how to paint a picture that you're gonna it's gonna become a tourist attraction right people gotta say come and watch the elephant that paints the picture you might as seen on YouTube and then next thing you know you got a tourist

55:19business well if he always does the same picture too right draws himself over and over again yeah but it's right here it looks to me at least like the elephant's doing that yeah you couldn't even talk a four-year-old into doing that so you know I'm saying but for now you have to ask him what the it is like what is that like that's an elephant whoa that elephants crazy what is it do it you think it knows it's drawing an elephant or it's it's a good question like this drawing a tree it probably doesn't know it's drawing an elephant if I had to guess I would get out of guess that it probably doesn't understand 2d space like that because if it did it would start creating art those are expressing themselves to each other they were start drawing directions let's go this way if you start seeing animals do that that is so far beyond using tool that's what bees do yeah right he's do

56:08with smells right well they're doing with exams yeah they can they give instructions on where the flowers are yeah so this question of intelligence is really interesting and I think very important because you know we talk about intelligence as if we know what it is right but we don't it expresses itself in so many itself in so many different ways there's so many manifestations so this big controversy that's happening now among you know between I don't know if you're aware this was Sam Harris and as recline and I'll Andrew Sullivan and people are trying Mary Charles Murray right exactly that whole thing about ratios people that don't know what the weather is so they're charles murray wrote this book called the bell curve I don't know 20 years ago or something 25 even yeah where he argued that there are racial differences in intelligence IQ specifically with Asians being the

57:03highest and then whites and then blacks and that just the way it is in social adjustments aren't gonna change that because it's largely genetic right and you know that's as I understand that was the argument i haveno think it's saying largely genetic but I think they're saying that genetics play a factor and environment plays a factor I think some people are not willing to look at genetics if it shows an unfavorable trait in minorities they just they don't want to look at it they yeah they do that's true but I think it's also true that part of the argument is that social programs are a waste of money cuz they're not going to affect it because its genetic that's crazy like that I'm very sure the argument that's just straight racist to me well I think that's what people are the ideal experimenting to save your money know do a better job like you don't even know if

57:59it works because what have you done like what go to inner-city school right and pretend you're a ten year old kid trying to get by in this life and you're literally seeing gang members and craziness and people flash in cash and people dropping out because they're pregnant when they're 13 and you're trying to tell me this not there's not some sort of a massive environmental factor if you were a white kid yeah going to a school like that I only went to a bad school for one year of my life I'm not I'm no og but I really did go to one bad school Mary Curley middle school and Jamaica Plain and Jamaica Plain Massachusetts it's now it's become gentrified sort of it's kind of like East LA or silver a Silver Lake area you know like a lot of hipsters have moved in in nice and places but when I lived there it was not good it was very poor people and the the middle school

58:54was scary it was scary rolled kids my seventh grade class no one it was just a weird play maybe I guess it was eighth grade but the point was these kids were they were never gonna graduate they knew it and they were trying to go back to seventh grade again or eighth grade whatever the it was and the teacher would have them in the class for a couple days and then they would leave and everywhere you walked you were scared everywhere you walk like some weird was happening with people people yeah people there was always like tension and there was always like bigger kids around that were robbing other kids like yeah like I got through that year going holy and when I got out of there my parents moved I moved to a really nice part of town Newton but if you're a kid growing up in that environment good luck learning anything good probably it's it's pretty bad at

59:41home too yeah and what I experienced in Jamaica Plain was nothing compared to Dorchester and Roxbury those are the bad areas yeah they were way worse and we know that anxiety stress stops brain development yes yes it also makes people much more inclined to violence yeah you know it sure and your when you grow up in them even in the womb if your mother's around horrible situations and people screaming and fighting and yeah that cortisol and all those adrenalin and all those all those hormones are flowing through that baby preparing that baby for a violent world well you I'm sure you know about the epigenetics that show that that can pass several generations yes grandfather was in a famine you're more likely to be obese and that crazy it's nuts yeah you also live longer though no weird when the people that were that we're in famine people their kids lived longer

60:31for some strange reason interesting yeah like your body's preparing you and be extra durable like you would we were talking about before the podcast started right and fasting is the only intervention that's ever been shown to extend lifespan mmm nuts yeah I do it because it makes me just function better I do it every 16 hours I eat so I'll eat and then I don't eat for 16 hours so I'll eat for eight hours of the day uh-huh that's it when that's over that's over so like 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. remember it is I just figure out what the time is and then add at sixteen to it yeah cheating I add 14 but I never added less than 14 I see yeah I I was talking to a guy recently about this Brian fries injure and in Austin really really smart guy and we were talking about this and he's like I only eat when the Sun's up it was easy to keep track of that's good yeah what if you want to go to a nice

61:26dinner don't go earlier I know got up cheat days when he said it I was like dude you know spend most of my life in Spain where dinner time is 10 p.m. like it's not gonna work for me if I go to a restaurant I allow myself to have a little bit of bread allow myself to have dessert occasionally I allow myself to eat some shitty things yeah maybe a little pasta I feel I can't it you have to be I think you have to both be disciplined and also I enjoy the art form of cooking enjoy that people make these delicious dishes I follow your elk and jalapeno Instagram feed there Joe looks great do you cook at all I love cooking yeah I have meat for you then oh I have sausages Joe Rosen has meat for me we're talking about the van you know that my favorite thing in life is travel and the reason I love travel is that you can wake up and have no idea what your life's gonna be like by the

62:32time you get a bit right right so we're driving the van through along the Rio Grande and we want to go to a Big Bend National Park which is beautiful dad's do you know where that is no it's like that part of Texas is sort of dips down okay and then you know and there's like a big vent literally a big bend that's the river so it's way down South Texas that's a weird spot it's cool it's it's it's interesting South Texas is strange yeah yeah should have a passport to go there in the rivers like it's white is this room it's nothing you know you could just walk across over to Mexico Wow but anyway so so we get into the western entrance of Big Bend and it's like 4:00 p.m. and the guy says yeah all the campgrounds are full and okay can I get a backcountry permit like no you can okay so he says just go back to that little town right there spend the night there and then come in the morning

63:30and I'll hook you up okay great so we go back to the status called turn linguae little town we just drove through it on the way in nothing there you know some houses whatever and and we find this restaurant and it's like okay we're just going to crash behind a dumpster in the van you know whatever and spend the night there so we're sitting there and I remembered somebody had sent me an Instagram direct message like about terlingua so I go back and I find it and the guys like hey if you get to terlingua Texas you should look up my buddy Tony he's really cool so here's his handle sorry you can't tell people that you're willing to do this cuz now they're gonna be sending you direct messages oh they do it all the time I love UPS nutsy bit silly you're paranoid this is gonna be a dude with a ball gag in his hand and you're gonna go what and then you to feel that wet that

64:22cloth filled with chloroform so you know you're in a different world Joe I'm I'm in the world of micro podcast and where everybody who reaches out to me likes me they're not crazy I remember showing you one time a long time ago I was here doing a podcast in my phone message came in and I looked in it was this really hot woman in Australia who liked to send me naked pictures of herself and I showed it to you and you're like that's a trap a trap looks like right there different over there they're there and they're far away yeah yeah there are they're interesting people anyway that's the place I would live I like Australia yeah yeah Australian people there funniest funny as yeah but they get American comedy straight away like there's you know there's no like problem doing shows over there yeah humor is an interesting thing cultural humour anyway let me finish this story

65:25so I text this dude I'm like hey I'm interning away you don't know me but some friend of yours whatever he texts his back we're in this restaurant come have a beer so go to this restaurant there's this table maybe a dozen people sitting at the table hey come I have a beer really nice people after about 15 minutes I say to somebody are you guys tripping he's like yeah we all create some not sure some of them did someone did anyway but super relaxed and some buddies make some joke about like their their beer glass was dirty or something and someone else is like yeah I just it's good for your microbiome and I'm like oh you guys know about microbiome yeah yeah I said I read this article a couple years ago this dude you probably read this article yourself this dude was in Africa with the Hudson people the hunter-gatherers and he took some huts a and he mixed it up and blasted it

66:19up his ass to see if he could get a hunter-gatherers microbiome because it's a much more complex microbiome right I say this to this dude thinking he's gonna have a reaction like you just had and he says oh yeah that's him he points to the end of the table I said what hey guys look at me smiling I said that you that's you yeah here's me you blasted hunter-gatherer yeah yeah I do this thing in Africa this guy's a world famous scientist microbiome expert Wow spends half his life in in Africa with this hunter-gatherer group and the other half and there's a tiny little town in Texas and there he is and so I we stayed there for days became great friends with this guy did a podcast with him fantastic I am Jeff leach I'm gonna is it is in tangentially speaking the podcast available on iTunes stitcher and everywhere else available or find podcasts found I'm gonna listen

67:19to that one that sounds amazing I mean like what a coincidence that was totally fell out of the sky we went to visit Peter Gorman you know him he was editor of High Times Magazine on the 70s first person to write about ayahuasca in the Western press not scientifically but popular press explore the Amazon for years was all over down there first person to write about SAPO you know the burning frog yeah yeah really interesting dude he's in Texas - Wow so he drove up to see him so it's kind of like just cruising around in the van like hanging out with cool people I heard that frog poison stuff is horrible that the trip yeah I mean I guess it was Aubrey wasn't it Aubrey that was on the podcast talking about doing that tree frog poison pretty sure was him he's done everything yeah he's like Mikey from that commercial about like he everything he's in there that's Aubrey

68:16he loves everything takes everything but he he was saying was just a terrible ordeal but there was there was also an article that I read about certain countries where they didn't have an endogenous psychedelic or didn't have a local psychedelic so these people would take or deal poisons so they would take poisons that would get them like literally to the brink of death and then they would come out of it like a near-death experience and that this near-death experience provided some sort of a shamanistic you know some sort of a breakthrough experience where you could move on to the next level like you'd experience something you know it was like like we were talking about before the podcast like when you lived in Portland and then coming here in LA when it's sunny out you're like son you just feel it yeah that it's similar well there's a similar theory about Africa

69:08that there aren't a lot of endogenous psychedelic plants there boga is one of the only ones and that's incredibly strong and not available all over the continent and so they develop complex rhythms to provoke altered states mmm that makes sense and that's why I African rhythms are so complex and Native American rhythms are very simple that's intricate their eyes let's already and just boom boom boom is love have you heard have you ever heard any of the e carros that Aubrey plays Ezell no they got these eco rows that he got from these South American shamans and I listen to sometimes when I write because I like listening to things that I don't know the language when I write like I like I like some music from Armenia like some Lebanese music I like it's cool listening to things where I have no idea what they're saying so like I don't get wrapped up in you know feel

70:05their emotions but I don't get wrapped up in whatever they're talking about so I can write about whatever the table tops a lot of good music out there you want Brazilian African yeah I most of the music I listen to I don't understand the words because I really fixate on the words if I do the he crows are crazy because they they make the psychedelic dance to them hmm like DMT can you take DMT with the e grows you realize like the e grows it's like a technology that was invented to work with DMT right like this is like give me some volume on this this is what they sound like now by itself you listen to this right now and you go oh this is just like some weird slow music but when you're in the dimension of dimethyltryptamine and the world has become infinite fractals that are moving and changing and morphing when you hear this song the hallucinations or whatever they are that

71:13you're experiencing the visualizations they dance to the song a hundred percent in sync so all this it's comforting yeah it's it's but that's another thing it keeps people from having bad trip sometimes because they can cling to the music and the structure in the music whereas their own paranoia and fear and inability to let go gets hit with that psychedelic juice boom and just experience that new and you some people freak out but it sounds you might be able to bring him down it sounds like what a fetus might hear in the womb got that heartbeat - yeah imagine what fetus here see I like to listen to this kind of when I write because I don't no idea what they're saying yeah and so I can just keep it on the background it also makes me feel like just knowing just knowing that that's out there knowing that the the DMT world is out there it makes me just a little bit

72:12nervous it makes me write better mm-hmm you're writing jokes or others everything whatever even you ever written a book or essay or written essays I really used to write a lot yeah no I was write some of your essays what are we talking about yeah I wrote a beautiful one a couple years ago about that I really I don't know if I've ever told you how much I appreciated that actually it was about how the quest for optimal fitness shouldn't be taken as immortality that we're all gonna die and you got to sort of deal with that do you remember one time I think I wrote your body's a sand castle that's what it is answers are beautiful but one of the beautiful things about this we know how temporary they are yeah when you see a sand castle it's not just like oh this guy made an amazing sculpture it's like oh no this person made something they know it's not gonna last and they put a

73:05massive amount of work into it but part of the beauty of it is that it's not hollow right yeah I really I enjoyed that I think it was for a magazine yeah forget one magazine so you have a book in mind I started writing a book and then I had a deal with the publishing company like wantings they wanted very specific kind of writing oh that's yeah it's for Maxim that's what it was they wanted very specific like they wanted jokey jokes they even offered to just pay me to transcribe my act and I was like I don't want to do that and they go but these people did it you know some famous comedians did it I said that's fine I just not what I want to do I like writing but I like writing that I feel like writing no no I don't want to have some so when we went into it they were like we love your blogs we think you're really funny this would be good was this before you had the podcast yes

73:58yeah so I gave them all their money back yeah I just I don't do this yeah because at this point yeah free free range to do whatever you wanted yeah it's I just think that at anytime you willingly take on some new project managers and other they might like their their opinion might very well be valid but I'm not looking for it no I want whatever I write to be out of my head and whether it's good or bad depending upon how much focus and attention I put into it you know I'm pretty self-critical so if I think it's clunky I'll try to redo it but I'm not interested in like artistically are creatively going down a direction where somebody else is picked in the subject matter or somebody else is suggesting like I'm not that's fine there's no reason for you to do that I mean you've got the massive platform and a well-established voice you don't I I think honestly I think publishing is is

74:52at the Napster stage yeah right now I think it's it's sort of collapsing I'm at I'm finishing this book I've been working on for a few years now and I don't know that I'll ever publish another book with major publishers well you've had great success with your podcast as well but the beautiful thing about your podcast is it allows you to put out an idea almost instantaneously I mean you get together with this rattlesnake guy yeah you guys have a couple hour conversation you upload that and that's it it's wonderful and it brings really interesting people into my life and like my circle of friends now is largely composed of either guests or listeners of the broadcast you know it's yeah it's wonderful I've just put out a book recently that's sort of compilations of podcasts hmm so it's not the whole conversation obviously but it's excerpts and the whole thing was crowd-sourced

75:44so people who listened to the podcast picked the episodes they picked what part of the episodes that they thought was most interesting they transcribed it this guy added McDade did all the art the publisher misfit press or people that I know through the podcast they went out to me and we had some beers and it not intending to do anything together just like hey dude we're in town and we'd like your show can we get a beer and really like these guys and ended up having the CEO on the podcast AJ and yeah so we just put out the book and it's it sort of fulfills my fantasy of being a writer without having to you know if I could do what your in it you remember you signed a release yeah I remember hope you remember that Joe you and Duncan you and Duncan and my mother blurb did its oh that's awesome yeah yeah you don't even know you blurbed it we just lifted something you said on a

76:41on a podcast about you you said perfect was it you said whatever it is I sign off on it now you said Chris is them is this best beta I've ever met and so yeah that that's my dream is to put out one of these a year that's a great idea and I mean really there's a lot of amazing conversations that I've had with people on this podcast that I would love to see written down or I could read it go over it here my own phone it's and also it's you people have in the bathroom you know it's like a little thing you just pick it up whatever it is there's no you don't need to follow the flow or the in your encouraging reading which is a dying thing and people and and there are a lot of people out there who don't listen to podcast right me included I rarely listen to podcast do you listen to books on tape no obviously I don't have spaces in my life where I'm doing something that would allow me to

77:36listen to voices talking that wouldn't interfere with what I'm doing so like yeah I'm not a carpenter I'm not driving long distances you know it's like I'm either writing or doing them doing my podcast or something else yeah but there's not I don't commute you know what I mean so so there's a specific sort of you know activities that lend lend themselves to listening to podcasts and a lot of people just don't have those spaces in their lives right so I envision the book is like something where people can be like hey dude I know you know I know you don't listen to podcast but this is why I do these are the sorts of crazy-ass conversations that Chris and Duncan and Joe get into and that's why I like listening to those guys you know or wim HOF or Graham Hancock and all these guys are in the book Oh awesome yeah yeah man if I stopped and thought about it because before I started doing the

78:31podcast I would listen to recordings of like Terence Mckenna would give or timothy leary or you know there wasn't a lot you know you or listen to art bell having some you know weird UFO expert on or something i mean that's really what you had to listen to you didn't have very many choices right and then i think about all the conversations that I've been able to have with guys like John Anthony West with Graham Hancock Randall Carlson and Michael Shermer and you and Duncan re means so many people had these crazy conversations with them that to me they've been I mean I it's shaped the way I look at everything it's changed everything else I feel like I'm constantly getting educated you know yeah you set up your life as like you know not I'm not talking about myself but you've had guests who are some of the smartest people in the world who come to you to sit here and chat with

79:28you for you know I mean that's you have set up an amazing little educational institution here sometimes sometimes educational chaos but it's so that's education yeah well it certainly is you learned about what we're like weren't drunk but it's what it is you know it's a thing you know it's a thing and it's a thing that's enjoyable to me like it's like I like having all these conversations so if I can record them and they just put them out there another people like them it's this is a very rare balanced sort of relationship so to me there's no other way I'd gets like if I said to you hey Chris let's sit down and talk for three hours you like okay alright I'll block off three hours for you yeah can I look at my phone at all during this time okay I get up to go to the bathroom we would never have this like as connected a conversation I I just got another set of

80:23headphones to give to my guests because the ostensibly the main reason is I'm using handheld now because my whole thing's mobile right right right people who occasionally come to my place in Topanga but normally I go to them and they can't hear when they're they don't hear so I have to keep like going hey hey the mic you know there are a lot of them they're not used to talking on mics and all that yeah but the other reason I got it is my buddy Kyle actually pointed to me that when you both have headphones you're both in a shared space and you're much less likely to be thinking about your phone or whatever cuz you're both like I don't know what it does but it seals it off in a way yeah we talked about that yesterday actually me and Eddie Bravo talked about it because he doesn't like to wear them because he doesn't like the sound of his own voice and I said he and I are so comfortable

81:11we've been friends for so long I didn't we didn't need to wear him but I feel like when you're having a conversation with someone it cuts out everything else right just you two they're like there's no distractions in the room but if there were there would be less distracting because they had phones well that's the thing I'm out like sitting in a campsite somewhere or by a river or whatever there's a lot going on yeah the handheld microphone too is a big thing and if you get a mic that picks up everything then they pick up everything everything like they pick up some over by the outhouse you'd hear in the background yeah I was using lapel mics for a while but they were on the directional is too much and people were complaining and like dude I can't in the car I can't hear it is an interesting thing right because this is not something that a production company would ever get

81:56together and fund because they would say if they did they'd have a sound guy and they'd have a can't like half the fun is watching you well well this one sucked is these mics are yeah alright we're not doing that anymore you know like we've done a few from an iPhone we used to do podcasts on a plane like we'd be you know me and Duncan or me and Ari or whoever was would be on a plane next to each other I just take the iPhone between us press record and start talking and voice notes yeah and turn into a podcast and it's not that bad yeah I did that recently in the van I was driving I had some ideas I just grabbed my phone and started talking into it and I threw it up yeah and people like it because they know one thing they know this is one of the things that's appealing about podcasts in general is that it's not produced right it's just this is what it is you

82:39know it's like you got an idea and I'm getting it right from Chris Ryan's head it's going right from his head right in that phone that's going right into my ears there's nothing there's no filters there he's getting right into your head it's one of the weirdest things about podcasts in general is that that the intimacy of your voice in someone else's head like I'm sure when you meet them they get weirded out right a lot of people get weird because in their head you're right yeah hey like yeah and it's it's strange like they know you yes you know and they really do know you it's not like Fame where you're an actor right and people like oh I know your face like yeah but yeah I mean people really do know Joe Rogan yeah really yeah so there are parts I know both of us have parts of our lives we don't talk about on the podcast specifically your marriage I guess you know Emily I don't

83:28like to talk too much but yeah yeah I'm that way too right my impulse is to talk about everything like my impulses like I a nothing guy no secrets because I feel like there's a like a revolutionary shamelessness mm you know I feel like I feel so privileged and largely thanks to you and Duncan honestly when I started the podcast and you guys did that shrimp parade thing and that really built up my audience and to the point now where it paid it's self-sustaining and right it's my main gig that's awesome it is awesome it's incredible but it's like I feel like there's a responsibility I have in a way to express ourselves shamelessly because everybody else has a job they can get fired from right or a marriage that they can get you know screwed the wife can leave them or they can right I'm invulnerable and so I kind of feel like all right so what the cost of that you

84:24know every opportunity or every you know privilege comes with the responsibility the responsibility is like I got to talk about that other people don't talk about so that it's out there right and so my impulse is to just say everything you know and my sex life is really has been very interesting and I'd like to talk about it more but I I don't want to you know other people never sort of said they were down for that you know so that's that's magnified when you have children because they they have no say well that's the other vulnerability they put their kids out there okay I don't know I'm not saying it's the worst thing to do but it's not the child's choice and they're very young and you're making a you look like whoever did what they did to Michael Jackson right yeah one of the things that they did is they made him famous way before he had the idea what the that meant and

85:16they profited off of it yeah they kind of pimped him out right and that's kind of what's happened and they destroyed him yeah ultimately the whole thing destroyed him right and I just I don't want to be a part of that I just there's no heart I don't think it's intelligent and I also don't this is my real honest feelings I do not think that Fame is I don't think that people should aspire to it I think it should be something that happens if people like your work and then it's cool that's fine but I think there's way too much emphasis put on just trying to get attention and it's being rewarded and supported in this weird way there's nothing wrong with getting attention but it should make sense it should make sense there should be some reason and if it's out of balance no you know you should you should probably look at like why why is it out of balance like yeah and lots of

86:14things that attract attention are not things that we need we we want more of it's you know like conflict yes conflict that's a big one but it's also the I like just Fame itself one of the weirdest parts about it is that you have to constantly be checking yourself like all these people are nice to you all these people are saying nice things to you or being mean to you you know one of the all people that you don't even know so you can't rely on them for your self-esteem and you certainly can't rely on them for criticism you can't rely on them people you don't even know that don't care about you you know see you you're in this weird position you have to be very careful with who you communicate with because one of the weirdest things you'll see from famous people is all the sudden they get this very strange thing where they feel like people are supposed to do things for

87:07them and you know they don't they're not supposed to pay for things and everything's supposed to be easy and they're supposed to get that that's so that's a weird one like they they don't respond to criticism well they don't understand that they're still a human being in the middle of growth know they're a star I'm a star and I want this and I want it yeah and they're just like what kind of is this do you know who I am yeah exactly we've seen we've all seen like a version of that right and the broad it the problem though is that they know that their stinks yes they know that they're human they know so they're so then they develop this sort of fraud phobia right that people are gonna find out what they really are I mean I've seen this with fashion models you know I used to hang out with a lot of fashion models in Barcelona that you know that whole story where I lived in

87:59the mansion with the fashion models did you talk about that could be I don't know not sure about looking for track of what the we've talked about it's possible yeah it's impossible yeah anyway so yeah a fashion model come phase well we were extremely wealthy and and that gets back to the 70 grand a year thing and the whole sort of question of you know saturation you know what else it is it becomes a real problem with things being too easy and life being like way too patterned like you you everything is very predictable in terms of like your success you have plenty of money you have adulation from fans without any stress or duress you gonna have a little bit of stress in terms of like trying to manage your career but it's nothing like trying to make it yeah I don't know if I'm ever gonna make it stress that's a totally different kind of stress I don't know if I'm ever gonna be a success

88:52stress that's real that goes away once you definitely become Kanye West whoever the you are and then you're subject to your own demons cause then you're alone you're really alone you can't even go to the grocery store you spent any time with Jim Carrey no I don't know I'd love to meet that guy yes he seems like he's in a weird stage of his life he seems to me like someone who who you talked about you know you get to us that that pinnacle I mean you have to deal with your demons yeah it seems like he's dealt with them thank you now he's come out the other side yeah and he's in this very sort of this place of wisdom and and yeah it I just think he he saw and Russell Brand is another guy who I think I I admire where they are in their lives and how they got there they sort of went through the fire and they've come out the other side somehow Brussels certainly has I know Russell he's he's a

89:50sweetie he really is a super sweet guy like Jim and too and really trying to like be a better person yeah and a better human and you know I don't agree with him on everything he gets a little social justice warrior II on some things but I think it's just because he wants to do good and he's like leaning towards good and he's leaning towards love and he's like it's it's all for the right reasons like every even if I don't agree with him I see how he's thinking and even if I don't agree with him it's a soft do not agree it's not a hard do not agree it's yeah yeah he's a fascinating guy yeah I think if Jesus came back he'd be Russell Brand probably a few last checks I don't know who Jesus would go just sling and dick all over the place just to remove everybody of their ego well you don't possess these women a years ago I I came back from Asia I was in Asia for

90:37a couple years and I visited my best buddy in Paris and we're throwing a football around I remember and some backstreet in Paris which freaked out the Parisians of course and my buddy's like the opposite of me he's religious he's disciplined he speaks seven languages that you know musical prodigy I'm a lazy growing up it was like I was Kirk he was Spock you know is that kind of dynamic half your audience won't even know who we're talking about that's sad yeah but he which explains why I've always wanted to a green woman thing but he said to me he's like Chris I figured you out man I say what's what's the deal he said you're the anti monk so what do you mean he said monks cut themselves off from the temptations of life in order to pursue a spiritual path you're pursuing a spiritual path but it's by way of the temptations of life you immerse yourself in them

91:36because in those days I was doing a lot of drugs and you know whatever right and I think he's right and in Buddhism there is a path of the the drunken guru right there there is a path sex and altered states of consciousness and sort of you know William Blake said the the palace of wisdom lies at the end of the road of excess mmm you know and I so someone like Russell Brand I think that's his path he's gone through the addictions and the orgies and all that stuff that a lot of people think would make them happy he's just like check those boxes like now that didn't do it man I'm in a way that very few humans ever get to check out right now he's a beautiful man and a superstar yeah and he came on the other side and became this you know really conscious very spiritual person yeah and very humble and a sweetie nice guy I think humility is what you find if you get through to

92:33the other side yeah I think so I think of you but even when you get through the other side it's like there's no there's no destination it's not like a spot you get to like I'm a it I find that can relax I'm here yeah well you used that phrase a minute ago like you know trying to make it yeah make it it's like it's as if you'll make it and then you'll have it made yeah you know like what what did we make what's made doesn't make it thing is really for a comic it's just this the high unlikelihood of success is always looming over you and what is success peaking at a flex special no I'm not even just being able to work just being a working working community just paying your rent yeah with your standard that was always the dream like every comic that starts out if they're being honest like Fitzsimmons and I have talked about this hundred times because it was we'd

93:23never thought of a career that fits him as his one I think he's won at least two Emmys for writing brilliant guy and you know we were just two dorks yeah to 21 year old dorks hanging out together in Boston we weren't it we were thought you were a martial arts expert in those a martial arts expert I was a dork dude I would get nervous talking I've talked about this I I'd never could figure out why I freaked out when I would be about to talk to a bank teller like walking up to I get like social anxiety I would know I'd be nervous it's not a good place to look nervous not exactly I mean but back then it even makes sense because I was fighting and I would still get nervous talking to like any person who's in an official person yeah any person like a you know a teacher or a principal or anybody that's already Fenian thority figure out super-nervous talk to them my

94:15wife gets that way around anyone wearing a uniform freaks her out because she was in a war when she was a kid oh so she's so like immigration guys she just she starts shaking and say workers yeah yeah no I hear you man well uniform means uniform behavior right uniform means chicka go sideways when she last time you were Thai in uniforms probably when I was taking the photos for my 1999 CD I decided to dress like like old-school Frank Sinatra just decided when I when I made the CD I was thinking I never wear a tie a suit and a tie to be fun if I just decided to wear a suit and a tie for the cover this so that's it right there that's a probably Rat Pack the last time I'm gonna be dead someday yeah yeah that's the theme song to my podcast is you're gonna die one day yeah I don't want to give the end away but you're gonna die one day it's good song carpe diem baby yeah you enjoyed it I

95:20mean don't dwell on it too much don't freak out you know well it's like I think every young man should shave his head like at 21 or something shave your head see yourself bald for a month or however long it takes to grow back and it's like okay that's it yeah we'll say this but you have animal head I don't know I've never shaved my head I have a friend it looks like his kid his parents never picked him up for the first year they're like they just let him lay down on a flat marble hello poor bastard the back says flat his parents just ignore the out of him and he's got a flat head you know about the Flathead Indians which ones there was uh up in Idaho that area northern yeah they would put yeah they put a board on the baby's head cuz the heads are so malleable and then tie it and they look like Coneheads they scare the out of anybody I'm sure I saw those dudes riding up

96:21warpaint heads that was a thing about some of the I think was it was it Peru where they would do they would find a lot of these skulls from a certain period of time that had been elongated and you know the alien people went nutty like this is in this is evidence evidence of contact the aliens they've been here but it's just boards they just put boards on the side of their heads and stretch their heads up yeah they think they might have even been trying to emulate one of like originally the idea was bounced about that someone in the royal family in Egypt had deformities and that was one of the things that said about King Tut like King Tut was not a healthy person like that he might may very well have been the product of incest and that there was some Jinja member reading about this yeah I know about the incest in the Egyptians yeah and that some of the like

97:19heads when you see people like with like elongated heads and hieroglyphs and images they might have actually done that to try to replicate someone who had something up with to normalize it yeah might have been like a royal who had been like look at theirs that's his head that's his actual head so on the left yeah that's two ton cut is that his real head puru puru oh these are giant skulls right but what they have it they didn't they have King Tut's head too though you see if he in Google King Tut said the ones in Peru they know they're pretty sure like nine with like a high degree of certainty I don't to give you a number but that they use boards and so an example of that is in man's head look at what Tut's head must have looked like it was all weird yeah there's all stretched out like look at that like if you saw if you saw that on the ship of a spaceship on the deck like walking

98:15around you like oh my god that's the alien he must be from another planet right like if you were on a spaceship say if you watched in Star Trek and that dude walks by like well for sure that dude once we playing someone from another martini on his head look at the top of his head is flat there's lawless an extra brain it looks like feels like 10% extra brain maybe more what is it what the is going on back there here's the flat Indian this is a painting of there you go yeah Katelyn did the babies that would make you very non aerodynamic you'd be like a Land Rover Defender a big flat square thing similar skulls though oh wow that normalizing crazy-looking isn't that a royal weirdness you ever hear Spanish people speak they have the little yeah well they say that's because one of the kings had a lisp and then all the you know courtiers started replicating it to seem

99:12cool you had told me about that and I had forgotten when it came up the other day when someone was bringing up a beaver and then IRA beef huh yeah and then I remembered it after the podcast was over yeah I don't know that that's true that I mean I haven't looked it up if it's historically accurate or even if there's a way to know because there are no recordings right do you know the powdered wig one do you know what that no no no that's the best that is a weird one that came from syphilis really yeah yeah yeah how because men started getting syphilis find out what year it was a freak over year we just brought it up recently but there was a royal family I think two brothers they both had syphilis and they started losing the hair and a lot of men were losing their hair to syphilis back then they just had it and nobody knew what the it was right so they would

99:57make wigs and the more expensive you even more expensive the wig was the bigger it would be so the really rich people would be big wigs big wigs that's where big wigs come from and they literally put this style on to mask the effects of syphilis it's a great story I didn't know syphilis made your hair fell fall yeah you've teeth rot out you're falling apart man you're rotten a nervous system gets raised you're shooting your rotten jizz into somebody give it to them too and you don't even know what the hell's going on Louie the fourteenth is was only 17 when his mom started thinning yeah so 16:55 when the King of France started losing his hair and so if you scroll down it goes into the the whole syphilis thing we gout so where where's the syphilis part they mentioned up above that he probably had crazy brothers head so yeah apparently everybody had it back then you just

100:54imagine these people I mean they only lived to be thirty the syphilis outbreak sparked a surge in wig making victims hid their baldness as well as bloody sores that scoured their faces with wigs made out of horse goat or human hair / ooks were also created coated rather with powder sentient with lavender or orange to hide any funky aromas although common wigs were not exactly stylish they were just a shameful necessity hmm so the King of France started losing his hair in 1655 and that's when everybody hopped on his cousin Charles the second did the same thing both men likely at syphilis syphilis created a whole like a thing where like judges would wear those wigs yeah powdered wigs they would look like they were important people look at my wig you know we're doing right now de tribal izing right now yeah see we're looking at our own culture I mean it's

101:49British culture in this case but and and seeing how it's all this arbitrary silliness and that's travel that's what travel does for sure you know cuz you see it in other cultures and then you look back at your own you're like ah we do weird too we're we're all weird there is no it's like the oh is it Einstein right that there's no fixed point from which to observe anything you're always on and moving your perspective is always mobile yeah so there is no objective truth culturally it's it's all looking at one thing from another thing and both of them are moving yeah I love that yeah because and and again I think it leads to humility I think so too you know old roads lead to humility ultimately it just leads to a greater perspective I mean if you live in a small town and I'm not knocking Ohio Jamie but if you live in a small town in Ohio that's what you're used to yeah and

102:45you kind of like develop your pattern of what you expect to see in the world based on what's around you and in a very close immediate area but you're in the rainforest of Bolivia and you're hanging out with these tribal folks who are gonna go hunt a monkey and you're with them on a monkey hunt and they're all excited they shoot this monkey out of a tree with a bow and arrow they made themselves and then they're cooking this monkey over a fire and throwing wet leaves on it smoking in your life well what the and these people do this every day and they're gonna die in this forest I mean this is what they this is what they do this is how they live and for you it's like I got to get out of here for them this is like this is the small town in Ohio there's just a small town in Ohio in the jungle like this is yes to them this is their world and maybe and interestingly for you it isn't I got to

103:31get out of here maybe it's like this is where I should should have been my whole life yeah there are thousands of cases of people from civilization running away to go native there are no historical cases that I know of where native people have chosen to come and live in civilization yeah I hate to beat a dead horse because I always do it with Sebastian youngers tribe is amazing great book I really enjoy I talk about too much it's one of those things boy to me it's uh it is really good yeah I've read it three times it's a short book yeah it's one of its it covers a lot of the same ground that I cover in civilized to death actually I quote him in civilized to death and and some of it we have some of the same sources but yeah he looked at some of the that those accounts of people run in a way to go live with the natives and it makes sense totally I mean it makes sense like a dog

104:23you ever read call of the wild Jack London yeah it's cool it's a very it's a good book it's about a husky who goes and lives with the wolves it's essentially the story of the domesticated being going and living with the wild iterations of that same being right so it's like one of us and going to go to live in the Amazon or whatever Oh fantastic book if you like that kind of thing is at play in the fields of the Lord I've heard that book but I never read that one book yeah Peter Matheson that's a book right probably 30 years old maybe more and it was made into a film starring down Daryl Hannah and Tom Waits and who else John Lithgow Kathy Bates incredible incredible cast they said there's something that you get from escaping civilization that you you don't know you're missing it until you're out there when you're out there and I'm sure you experienced this in your travels

105:26there's there's a certain detachment from the masses like just just just to be out of the hive in the influence of all the people around you as weird as it seems there's energy that we're all exchanging and these giant hives together and some people live off of it like those New York City people like my friend Jeff lives in New York City's always gonna live in New York City this is what I like he likes it I love it he's walking through the streets punk rock Bam Bam yes that's his thing to me I'm like wow I'm always my thought is always how do you guys do this how do you guys do this that's all I ever think how the do you guys do this for him is how could you live any other way yeah but the people that but he has got a good life he's got a he enjoys what he does he's a fulfilled life he's happy but if you didn't I think we're talking about the same thing I'm talking about

106:15Giardia Nepal hurts rough yeah your farts smell really interesting you might know how I got it too bad because I have a friend who got it really bad where he's sick in hospital for like two days yeah I didn't go to the hospital I by that point I'd been traveling for a few years I read grd I've had hepatitis I mean I've had some I've had you know yeah I spent three days in a room in Palenque and puking into the same plastic bag oh boy three days in the same bag yeah what is it like after day three worst enemy was it no you just stand there smoking a cigarette would you drop that bag all the mothers mercy I'd ever see I don't have any enemies that you have to really hate somebody for that yeah and the funniest thing about that was I came out of that room after it might have been two days out of it I came out of that room you know pale emaciated just totally drained and I

107:21went out on the terrace of this you know Palenque ever been there Oh amazing Mayan ruins and lots of magic mushrooms one two Chichen itzá kitchen eats is cool cheese is much more sort of commercialized yeah I think it's pretty wild stand tulum is another one that's a good time that's Mayans mines with money anyway I come out and there's this woman there this German woman and we start chatting a little bit and she and this was at a time in my life where I was really nervous around women and yeah you know whatever and this woman was like super into me and I was like so I was like I could not you like just there's no I didn't do much I just saw I was felt so sick and horrible and it turned out later I got to know her a little bit she was really into punk music and she thought I look like Johnny Rotten oh so she thought you were cute because like I was about to die that

108:17she's into that look yes for people out there that you might go campin please just get a gravity filter don't get Giardia you can it's real easy it's real sand there's also a thing called the SteriPEN SteriPEN is wonderful take this SteriPEN you run it around in the water for a certain amount of time and it's kills everything bad in the water and you even taste it doesn't taste any different it's literally almost like UV light yeah yeah there's a bunch like SteriPEN is a good one but these gravity filters are amazing they have pumps they have another one you could take some water and you pump it you pump it and it goes through the filter into your water bottle and you could drink it mmm you can clean up like 99.99% of all the with just a good filter yeah and it does you have to drop chemicals in there some people bring you knows yeah you don't need to but please don't

109:05drink out of creeks folks just but could be dead but steamy yards up I don't know if you if you can pull this up but just recently I read a thing online saying that like it's almost never necessary to filter your water when you're in the when you're camping and I've always filtered my water camping but it was this thing where they did all these they took all these samples creeks from creeks and and like apparently they're like self-correcting mechanism in nature but if something's dead yeah you don't want that it's not worth it the gravity filters so easy yeah it's like if you you could take the risk and your brains out for three days or you can just enjoy yourself with water from the same place I think your brains out for three days is a good experience yeah it's like an ordeal poison right yeah exactly you ever get high from vomiting no you yeah woah yeah cuz when you

110:01follow me you get all these endorphins you don't feel like great after you vomit I feel better yeah it's relatively last time I did some serious vomitings I had food poisoning you know I guess I was about ten years ago I had some pretty serious food poisoning it was just hurl Anatomy yeah that was the last real real like unstoppable yeah well it's just coming out and just a fat tube of it you ever have a colonic irrigation no I'm not in the things going in my butt I believe I don't believe that that is necessarily a healthy thing either I don't believe it's not that it's and but this all the stuff that people saying that it's healthy for you I'm like I don't necessarily think it is I was just talking to a while about that you know yeah I sent you an email about him actually he's he's like you know him the big beard mm-hmm he's a fan ears okay yeah I was with him in Tucson and he saw

111:00he's an old friend of Paul Stamets he was at Harvard are you yeah I can now hook you up he comes to LA he's he was the most famous doctor in America for years he but he's really interesting because he he was at Harvard with Leary he studied under Richard Evans shultiess his undergrad degrees in botany Richard Evans shultiess is the guy who basically you know discovered in comas hundreds of psychoactive plants in the Amazon you know amazing dude anyway so Andrew was right in the mix and he he sort of was central in Leary getting in trouble because Andrew wrote an article in the Harvard Crimson criticizing Leary for indiscriminately giving psilocybin to students and that's what triggered a lot of a tumult after that anyway Andrew went on to Harvard med school residency at masses Mass General in Boston like top top-flight you know academic stuff but instead he

112:06got his MD but then he went and worked at the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda Maryland the main government Research Center it's like early 70s I think and he has never wavered in his understanding that drugs are not necessarily bad and so he did these double-blind studies about marijuana the first I believe double-blind studies of marijuana where he said like okay you know people have tested marijuana and they say oh it's bad for your brain because what they do is they get people high who've never been high and then they give them a bunch of math questions and they have trouble they can't answer and then whatever he's like I've been high I don't want to do math when I'm high so let's test people on things they like doing when they're high like color perception or pattern recognition or ability to recognize tonal changes in music things like that and he found that

113:03their perceptions were actually heightened hmm so it's like ah see marijuana is not bad it's just bad for certain things and not others so then he did I think was about driving he said okay they find that marijuana impacts impairs driving ability but that's again because they're using naive people who've never been high before and they don't have a chance to practice driving while high so he got people let them practice let them get used to being high then he tested their driving ability versus what it had been before or when they're not stoned and average scores and all that and he again he found that when people had a chance to practice they drove fine there's no problem he got basically pushed out because he was finding you know he was demonstrating that it's not necessarily a bad thing yeah it's one of those things that we talked about before that sometimes people don't

113:56want to know the actual results they just want to know the results that jive with their understanding and this this is really dangerous in science because people are purporting to be objective in science so often they're not and it's not fair it's also not fair to all the people that were unjustly arrested and prosecuted and in current and then imprisoned for something that's very beneficial and they were saying a lot of them saying that they like it saying that does good things for them yeah you know it's not the end-all cure-all but there's not a goddamn thing that is right but it's certainly a tool right and look at it objectively what what's the you know ratio of benefit to danger right you know how many people have died from marijuana overdose zero ever right and so Andy Wiles been saying this since the 70s that's right and his first books called the natural mind that

114:44he wrote the marriage of the Sun and the moon then a book called from chocolate to morphine these are all like stretch yeah the chocolate is a drug yeah right yeah yeah in the marriage of the Sun and the moon each chapter is about a mind-altering substance or experience so vomiting is one chapter in there cocaine mushrooms so he had Paul Stamets have been buddies for 35 years does that have anything to do with bulimia is bulimia also like something where people are getting addicted to actual throwing yeah yeah and there are religions where people vomit every morning in India I think Gandhi vomited every morning Jesus Gandhi and he drank his own piss by the way way to go yeah so anyway Andy while is this kind of hippy doctor dude with all the drugs and all that and the big white beard and then he he became very famous in the 80s with books about alternative medicine but he goes

115:39complementary medicine because he's not saying Western medicines bad he's saying it's good for some things not the best approach to other things so he brings in Ayurvedic and Chinese and all these different traditions depending on what the issue is he became very mainstream huge mega bestsellers on Oprah cover a Time magazine you know he start a school at the University of Arizona for doctors to get a certification in complementary medicine so super mainstream successful but he is never wavered on his stance on drugs and so you imagine the pressures that were coming on and he's like now it the truth the truth Indies in the 80s right all that say no to drugs era here's a question that you'd probably know the answer to there are obviously killing untold numbers of rhinos for their horns cuz men want to grind them up and it's supposed to get your dick hard does that work

116:41not for me did you try it I've been out there killing rhinos on a snake pit forever you know I is there anything science to that no not that I'm aware that is the craziest genocide ever and and who's doing it it's not Africans who's gonna make their dinner its Chinese its Asian people that apparently have their what I was told is that it's not even necessarily just about the idea that it gets your dick hard but there's value and the fact that it's a forbidden thing that's very difficult to acquire I think that's I think it's a signaling it's like a Rolex watch or a Lamborghini or whatever it's look what my friend told me is that it's not just a signal but it's a signaling that you don't give a like you're here to make money and get the best and have the best things and look let's let's drink rhino tea then we're gonna eat shark's fin soup hahahaha and live monkey brain

117:37yeah you see Matt I've seen that that's really intense that's real I saw it in faces of death a bunch of people sitting around there whacking a monkey in the head with a hammer and his head stuck in this little thing but I was like in the table yeah I wasn't really sure if that was real and they scoop it out eat it yeah rattlesnake brains though isn't that like prions can't you get prions from primate brains yeah like you can you could be deathly ill from that right yeah like that's essentially what mad cow disease is yeah yeah from brains now forcing cows eat cows that's where mad cow disease comes from yeah which is a body mind that couldn't give blood because he was in England he lived in England during the time that the man I was in Spain then yeah I can't give blood cuz the hepatitis which one you get B or C a good one yeah it's the that's the one there's easy one

118:32oh yeah I was like a month down yellow eyes yeah yeah no energy a month that was yeah that that's a long story but that that I actually got it from a guy who was sort of saving me from something else but I I never told you the whole scorpion and Guatemala story I think you did me again well it's a long story yeah I mean you don't now though people will be well if like to get now people can hear it I've told her it on my podcast and I've also I told her it on a podcast called risk and that's actually cliff notes yeah but listen to the risk thing if anyone wants to hear the whole thing cuz they did they had it sound effects and it's really good what is risk it's a it's a podcast just just color it's a storytelling thing you know it's like The Moth it's that kind of thing yeah they added sound effects yeah they produced it really well yeah as well done yeah what happened was I was I was

119:29with my girlfriend at the time Puerto Rican super beautiful American girl she tried to get you to go to a camp away and talk about Jesus or enough she never tried to talk to me about Jesus but I would have listened cuz she interested in El Diablo she was great so I was with her in Guatemala and we had met this other couple Solange and Fabrizio whoa and yeah we were at this place called Tikal in north-east guatemala way way back in the jungle and it's a Mayan ruins beautiful crazy you know it was like a big city and now there's you know at when I was there this was 1989 there may be ten big ruins big temples that they had uncovered and we're staying in this campsite with hammocks it's very primitive at the time anyway we it was a full moon and on and I decided we were gonna take some acid and watch the moon rise and the Sun set up from the top of 1004 it's

120:37called the Jaguar temple and so we went up with this other couple and there's this ledge up there and it's up above treeline you know you're way above the treeline you can hear see the monk hear the monkeys and and like see out over this flat jungle the patan and so we're up there and the sun's sinking and the moon is rising and the moon comes up it's beautiful and and there's this big Bank of storm clouds and the full moon is like between the horizon in the storm clouds but then it starts to go up behind these clouds and you can see it's gonna get dark as right so this other couple like yeah we're gonna go back to the campsite they didn't know we were tripping right and we timed it so we're peaking like now yeah and so they're gonna go back to the campsite so we but we were like yeah we're gonna just hang here right so I went over to hold the flashlight for them as they

121:34went down this ladder it was like maybe a 30 foot ladder pipe ladder drilled into this the temples made out of limestone blocks and so to get up there yeah there you go before so we're that steep yeah is that typical climbed up there's that temple for though the Jaguar temple i typed in temple for jack okay cool yeah yeah when I was there it was much more overgrown yeah anyway so we we went up to the top of that looks like it there on the right yeah that looks like it from like when we were there anyway so we're up on that ledge there and it seems like the the jungle is this goes for everything it's so crazy how it's almost like uniform in height yeah I mean just very varies a little bit but oh look at that picture yeah yeah oh man it looks like a picture I took actually up there anyway so it's so beautiful so we're up there and and I'm holding a ladder for these guys going down

122:41and they're like okay we're good like okay I turn off the ladder and I take a step and wow what the was that I turn the flashlight back on I see the Scorpion going up the wall scurrying up the wall like four inches green and then they're like three other ones on the wall let's like this thing's crawling with scorpions and I just got stung on the toe while you're on acid while I'm tripping and thank God I didn't jump cuz I would have dropped 30 feet to rocks oh my god so I go back to Anna and I was like she said what happened yeah I said I just scorpion like watch out and like oh Jesus right oh my god so we're kind of like oh are they dangerous I don't know I don't know so now it's getting dark right because the moon's going behind these clouds and there's this other these two dudes like way over on the other side of the ledge and we go over to them and they're Italian they

123:41don't speak English but honest spoke Spanish so she was talking to them in Spanish and the Italian and you couldn't sort of understand you know they're both Latin similar languages and those guys are like I don't know and we were like watch out cuz they're all around like oh yeah so while we're talking to them now it's totally dark this Guatemalan dude comes up the ladder with an old bolt-action rifle and he's like the night guard or something so we go over to him and honest says to him in Spanish is so impending so I'm Petty could also slow so Scorpio neighs and they got are they dangerous the scorpions and the guy says he's on with dollies I'm weren't those oh they're lethal there are deaths I go man I understood enough Spanish to get that you were thinking you're dying so I'm like yeah this is that this is it April full moon of April 1989 yeah I was 27 I was right around

124:36the time of trumps plane crashed what if it was exactly the same I think everything on talk about being mercury was amazing right yeah yeah I was at a table with that Puerto Rican girl why would you were with that other Puerto Rican girl up there Porto Rican girls crossed our path we both survived just barely so what happened to you so I'm thinking like I got to get down from here right cuz there's no way anyone else could carry me down right these ladders and you couldn't get a stretcher down right so if I'm gonna survive I got to get down on my own quickly so then if I collapse they can get an ambulance although we're like you know two days from Guatemala City and whatever the town was I don't even know if they had a clinic or I I don't know but we were pretty remote and like they're not gonna send out a helicopter or some like that right so I get down I so what

125:33happens is my girlfriend's freaking out nope no criticism of her I think it's much harder to watch someone you love die than to die yourself and in this case and so she's like oh you're dying and I'm thinking yeah maybe and so the one of the Italian dudes is like look you guys go I'll stay with her and you know make sure she's all right and so I go down with this other Italian dude we go down the ladder and we get down to the floor we start walking around the jungle and it's totally dark now cuz the moon's totally obscured and the jungle you know when you're tripping your your pupils are super dilated so you can see light and stuff that normally you might miss they're like the jungling go out it's full of glowing worms and flying by it's all like green and blue and yeah yeah and they're like these caterpillars and like lowly this places wild so we're walking around lost totally dark

126:32tripping I'm tripping he doesn't know I'm tripping how how tripping are you tripping that was I mean you know I'm peeking from the acid plus all the adrenalin right and so this pain is running up my leg and as it's like running up my the bone in the center of the leg this is kind of fire and when it gets to the top of muscles they've seized up so like you know my from the knee down it's just like rigid and then my tongue starts swelling and my throat starts swelling and I got this like novocaine feeling in my lips and I'm sort of drooling and and I'm thinking when this gets to my heart that's that's when I die and so I'm with this guy and we're lost and and first like I'm freaked I'm scared and then it occurs to me that I'm saying my last words to a guy whose face I've never seen because we didn't shine the light in his face when we were talking to him

127:43and he doesn't understand English and that cracks me up that I just I start laughing like a maniac and he's like got his arm around me he thinks I'm like losing it and I'm just like this is hilarious and I think about my friends and how they're gonna be like yeah you know good on Chris you know he didn't die in some dumbass way like we all thought he would he died in this it's still a dumbass way but at least it's interesting and then I started thinking you know all right I'm 27 but I've been around the world I literally around the planet I've been in love I've had sex with gorgeous women who loved me who you know I've well I I made a ton of money I walked away from it I I've done I've done everything I wanted to do I'm 27 but I've done everything and I've had a amazing life Wow and this is cool I'd have been crying like a you know I felt really bad for my parents and and

128:56honour but for myself I was like I've had a good run it's not as long as I would have liked but I've had a good run so I I really came to this piece and like the world doesn't owe me man I've had I mean I'd been in Alaska two summers at that point I worked in York in Manhattan for two years at that point with a guy who offered me a million dollars if I would stay and I said no and I left I flew to India I'd been in Asia for two years you've said no to a million bucks when I was 26 why did you say no to a million bucks what was the catch was need to do to you now he was a really good guy actually he I liked him a lot the million bucks was he said when you're 30 you'll have a net worth of a million dollars and if you don't I'll write you a check for the whatever you're missing and we'll notarize it and this guy's worth 30 million dollars or something so you just want you to work

129:59for him he wanted me to stay and I wanted to go I wanted to see the world and hmm this guy hired me to help him manage his family's property in midtown Manhattan and the main reason he hired me is because I didn't give a about money so he knew I wouldn't steal from him oh that's interesting and then when it stopped being fun and new I was like I gotta go he's like no no stick around I'll make it worth your while and so there was this weird dynamic but anyway I'd had all these experiences and so I was were at peace I like hey that yeah I've had a good run so anyway we finally we come out into this little parking lot and there's this Guatemalan kid there maybe ten or something and the Italian guy talks to him and says scorpion scorpion and the kid looks at me like oh my god come come and he he takes us to this trailer and we bang on the door and this horrible fluorescent light comes on

130:52and this like Guatemalan dude who obviously had been drunk and asleep you know it was like why and like the kid says he's the doctor he's not a doctor he's some jungle dude whatever and so the guy takes us in and he's talking you know it's sort of sake broke in English and I explained to him he says how big is the scorpion he looks at my foot he says how big was the scorpion I said yeah like you know this big like a finger and what color gray green sort of and he says ah yeah yeah that's not a scorpion that's alacrán so in Spanish in that part of Guatemala anyway there are two different words a scorpion is a little red Allah Quran is a big green thing but they're both with the tail and the rock you know and so we had been using the word scorpion because in English that's all there is but scorpion is scorpion in that part of Guatemala is lethal and that's a little tiny thing that's a

131:52little red thing and that'll take you out but the guys like look yours too hours ago and you're still alive you'll be fine apparently it's like if you have a bad heart or you're a kid maybe this will kill you but if you're if you survive a couple hours you're gonna be alright speaking of something I've read today something about the Atkins guy this is an interesting story you know the Atkins diet it's it's very controversial because I yeah his diet is a lot of protein stuff I'd heard that the guy died of a heart attack and that they weren't being completely honest as apparently even Snopes says that's not clear the guy I feel like he was the head of like it's so weird when this happens the Atkins diet guy when he died he weighed 258 pounds so he was overweight hmm and he was 72 years old and the story was the slipped on ice in front of his house and hit his

132:51head but he also had a history of heart disease I did not know that and he had had heart attacks is that why he got into the research that led to the diet I don't know I don't know just read that today I'm like like that there's some conspiracy and it was a vegan guy who was talking about there's a conspiracy about Adkins and that Atkins really died from a heart attack which would ruin the brand yeah well when that found he was 258 pounds was like wait how way that's heavy I'll tall was he the report concludes a doctor acted 72 a history of heart attack and congestive heart failure and notes that he weighed 258 pounds of death yeah so he was really unhealthy it was really interesting because that whole diet the Atkins diet like a lot of people were really criticizing that died yeah and saying that it's really terrible and that all the the fat and all the stuff - all the protein you eat

133:52you really shouldn't eat that much but it's very similar to what a lot of people are eating now when they're eating paleo and they're eating low carb apparently the real problem within our read this today about fat high fat diets is if you're going to eat a high fat diet it must be a low carb diet as well you cannot have high fat and carbs that is really bad for you because your body is going to use all the carbohydrates for fuel and all the fat lady is just going to be stored and apparently that combination especially with saturated fats is very bad so you want to be ketogenic or yeah or you want to be close to it you know you wanna you essentially want to eliminate most of the stuff people love like pizza and bread and pasta eliminate almost all that stuff yeah that's just all those unnatural foods but the point being that I'd never heard that I'd always heard

134:46that he had fallen and I assumed that anything other than that would be a conspiracy theory hmm then I read that I was like wow you know who wrote it now I remember John Joseph from the cro-mags you know that guy's a vegan super healthy ultramarathon triathlon dude now he used to be he still is lead singer the cro-mags I think they're still around I know he tour still might be torn on his own now but he wrote that about Atkins today hmm yeah well just to tie this together the guy after he explains this to me he gives me a couple pills probably aspirin or something and he dips some water out of a bucket and says take these pills you'll be fine I've been traveling a long time I knew you don't drink water out of a bucket in the tropics but this guy just told me I wasn't gonna die so I'll do whatever the he says I drank the water and a week later and hepatitis hepatitis you got hepatitis

135:46from a bucket this dude had laying around his dirty shed I think so that's crazy exactly and that's you narrowed it down to that particular moment you got hepatitis well soon I mean that's a pretty high risk for you yeah yeah crazy people with their gut biome down there you know they can it's like if you see other animals drink out of a puddle D freak out No yeah like a dog drinks out of a puddle you know freak out because the dogs got body he's gonna handle that that's what Jeff leach was telling me about the HUD so they drink ran out of mud puddles all the time it's like you know that's why he wanted their microbiome yeah we have a weak ass ass preservative Laden microbiome yeah antibiotics yep you can't avoid them it's hard to America alive you know if you get really really really so no I'm not talking about medical I'm talking about in the food supply the water

136:40supply they're everywhere in America I don't know if that really affects us that much they one of the things that I was I don't think there's levels of antibiotics in the water supply that's really affecting us it's possible that some of it is getting to us in the food supply but more so than not I think the issue is poor dietary choices because but poor dietary choices are the number one factor and like what affects your microbiome super low fiber yeah low fiber just not just not eating healthy if you're eating a lot of sugar in particular you got Candida running around your gut and they did the unhealthy bacteria acts better her into that and just your body starts craving it that's one of the weirder things about when you do eat a low carb diet is your body really doesn't crave carbohydrates anymore it's like it's a trick but when you're on carbohydrates

137:29have you eat them a lot man your body's craving them all the time right it's like you are being influenced by those organisms that are in your digestive tract which is really freaky yeah I mean that's the the whole sort of super organism I think you and I've talked about that in the past the idea that toxoplasmosis you know about that she says these things that get into the brain and determine behavior and and from the gut as well can determine I mean not even something is simple you know this is a simple example of like wanting wanting the organism to crave the thing that that works for them but not for the organism yeah but man that weird like really complex behaviors that are created by some parasites in the brain mm-hmm you know like cats that are mice that aren't afraid of cats and are actually attracted to the smell of cat piss actually attracted yeah they turned off

138:24yeah it's crazy and that that bacteria or this toxoplasmosis can only grow and it can only reproduce inside a cat's gut right which is bananas there any like Sapolsky we had Sapolsky Roberts Paulo he's grazing and he went into depth about that and it's just it's one of those things where you just stop and go what he's a cool guy I remember mentioning him to you once on this podcast and Jaime brought up his his photo and you looked at his photo and you said there's a guy who does not give a just he's interested in the work period yeah yeah the work yeah but he was gracious enough to give us an hour there he is right there yeah super nice guy too but just I mean his work with baboons as well was covered in a radio lab podcast it's fascinating podcast with the observed like this baboon is temporary baboon utopia where yeah you and I talked about that where

139:26the the upper ranking males ate the contaminated meat and died out yeah I love that story right starts one of the only hopeful stories out there well I feel like there's certain pockets of humanity like I mean I've never been to Burning Man but I assume that that's sort of a representation of that as well certain pockets of humanity were like-minded people get together and they say well it doesn't have to be like this like just because we're all caught up in this crazy trap and I think more of those little pockets of humanity are popping up day in day out and I think this podcast represents that in a lot of way too you know we're talking about the podcast being a cult of its own creation in in some ways I think it's more of a norm you know well no one's asking you to do anything and there's no there's no you know there's no rules but it's it's an opportunity for like-minded

140:18discussion that's rarely present in cubicle life you just don't think about I mean podcasts are in the intro to this podcast book we were talking about earlier I said that I think that podcasting is on a par with the invention of the printing press in terms of the potential for radical social change because there's no like you said before there's no filter there's nothing between you and your audience yeah and that's a radical thing I mean the printing press said when the printing press came about what that meant was you didn't need to have a team of scribes to copy out this thing that you've written right so you can be just a regular guy and pay the thousand bucks or whatever the equivalent of that was in medieval Europe and have all these pamphlets printed so you could be Martin Luther and change the world right if you have a good idea and it takes hold podcasting

141:20seems similar to that in in in the sense that anybody who can afford a few mics and a laptop can get their message out yeah and if it catches fire it catches fire it and it goes around the world you could do it on a phone too like we're saying you don't really need a whole lot of equipment yeah a lot of people use one of those small mp3 mics so zoom we use that as a zoom right yeah I think maybe I think you're probably you're onto something I think the Internet in general and and the ability for people just create their own content that's the real the gatekeepers to the masses have always been these production companies content providers networks all these people the hallowed halls and those people all got fat on it in a weird way because the gatekeepers are the ones that hoarded all the money I mean they gave some of the money to the actors and some of the money to the writers and

142:12everybody got wealthy don't get me wrong but they gig the Harvey Weinstein's of the worlds the one that really got rich if you look at that guy like that guy's the guy that really got rich and they were really happy - oh he's doing really well yeah yeah he's doing super well that's correct he I mean obviously that guy's the worst example right but he obviously also on a positive note financed a lot of amazing movies and if it was for him they wouldn't have gotten done but clearly those people who do that they're a different thing they're business people yeah now is the first time ever that there's a direct connection between a guy like you and a guy like whoever's listening to this right now that's never happened before I mean the only one in the room you know we have Jamie helping out and then it goes to the server and then it's uploaded to the RSS feed and then it

143:03goes to iTunes and it goes to wherever the you're getting your podcast from and that's it yeah there's no steps there's no network there's no notes there's no production meaning if you did your podcast and your podcast was on some radio network somewhere you'd have to go to meetings weekly meetings of the studio you'd have some program director some dick once again tell you what they're not going to talk about anymore yeah look you're losing you're losing sponsors I don't I don't even have advertisers good for you yeah I do it I had him for a while and I just got tired of listen to myself talking about underwear and so just do it for fun now no I'd supported through patreon that's great to know people send me money this is what I think ultimately I think ultimately people will someone's going to develop some sort of an app thing where you can you can like have

143:54basically everything you put out your podcast blogs all that it would all be kind of like a channel you could even call it channel hmm and that would be like a new social media platform that you could do everything from you know and people could either sign up for it and pay for it or not you know that's how sam harris has it you can either pay for his podcast or not that's how you have it too right yeah although you get it for free yeah you get it for free so if you want to support if you want to support it you can you pay but I do some some bonus stuff for patreon only yeah it could be a buck a month you know yeah why not and I think there's the the future is probably gonna be something like that that's the present as you said I mean Sam's doing it Duncan's got a patreon thing I do you got to get a patreon Joe no I make some money I make plenty of money with ads I know I'm trying to

144:48think of like what it's almost like the option if you pay you get no ads or free a lot of people do that that's like Dan Savage does that yes I forget what it's called but yeah there's the ad free version and that's probably a good monster version that makes sense because that way if you don't want to pay for you don't have to but the point being that you can reach a whole lot of people forget about paying you can reach a whole lot of people and get ideas to a whole lot of people that you could just never reach before no one would let you why would anybody invest in you why would even put that time and and then you're gonna keep all of it what yeah no way well think about publishing now right I write a book that book comes out somebody buys a copy of sex at Don right now I didn't paperback I get 8.25% well of the of the price that's minus 15% of that that goes to my agent and then

145:42taxes that's hilarious right I mean a pimp lets a hooker keep 50% of the money Wow a stingy pimp what is it gate lady like JK Rowling's when she's bawling on top of the world kind of deal is she get what depends what she signed right now but I mean she's already like Stephen King people like her they can cut it totally different deal right but the standard contract is what I had which was you know 8% on hard copy it's 8% for 5,000 copies than 10% five thousand and twelve percent after that and hard copy and then paper bag is 8.25% forever how many books have you sold in America maybe 400,000 450,000 something like that it's a lot of books not really not really I mean it's in about 20 languages that's what's cool its worldwide filled with 400,000 it's a lot of books if you look at it that way that's how you absolute yeah that's what it really is but in terms of money it's not that much

146:44money right especially if you you know stretch it out over the years it took to write it and all the commotion and all that it's not a way to make a lot of money right now books even it used to be if you had a New York Times bestseller back in the day you've made a lot of money really but the reading audience is much smaller now than it was 20 30 years ago what about books on cassette or audio that's a different deal you sign a deal generally with audible they sort of own that market which is an Amazon company right and yeah you get I forget what the percentage is but it's probably 18 to 20 something like that and also ebooks you get a slightly better deal I think you get 17 and a half percent of the price of an e-book which is funny though cuz it's not costing the publisher anything additional to have an e-book right right it's already edited it's already the

147:39cover and eyelash it's already done and there's no distribution costs alright so you get seventeen and a half percent as a writer they get the rest that's so great there's no trucks there's no shelf there's no store no reason for them to be getting all that money that's so crazy it's all gravy for them yeah and it's not like they're recouping costs and it used to be like back in you know Hemingway or whatever back in the day a publisher would would support an author through three four or five books thinking eventually something's gonna hit this guy's Got Talent eventually right and so as an investment now they expect you to have your own platform your own access to media you sometimes they're asking others to hire their own editors their own publicists really yeah but they still get all the money they still get the same contract the ratios are the same so it's like yeah that's why I say

148:30it's like a Napster kind of thing yeah it's at the point now where it's like wait a minute if I got a platform I got access to media I'm hiring my own editor why why am I giving you creative control and 92% of the revenue it's a strange business that is a strange business now essentially what they have is credibility so if you self publish or publish with some independent publisher that like New York Times isn't gonna review it or you know all Wow because it's a very insular world well that's crazy if it says nope that takes off then a publisher will come in and buy so like fifty Shades of Grey that was self-published I wonder why yeah but look what happens yeah they found they tapped into a market a chick that likes get spin on right there are a lot of them a lot of them I don't know how to spit on oh yeah but certain joked yeah smacked around by a billionaire yeah

149:27good looking good looking guy with a heart of gold hard to go but it likes to spit in your mouth yeah and then she and then ultimately he'll see the light and of course he'll beat a horse that's the fantasy yeah that's the fairytale that's what everybody wants see that's why I was saying earlier I've got this idea I was talking to Duncan about this the other night I've got this idea to write an erotic memoir mmm but that'll sort of be like my last book because at that point I'll have burned all the bridges you'll be the only person who at every interview be after that I think I was planning for it to come out around my 60th birthday and it'll be called an old manifesto it's just if you change the names of people oh no I'm not worried about people I'm not gonna hurt anybody in the bush or it's more just about you know how many people you've and people find out

150:21the truth yeah dude you're gonna become legendary but it's not you though that's not a book about how much I got laid it's not it's not a book about how cool I am it's a book about the amazing things I've learned in sexual situations right and that the world is so different from what people think mmm how so there's just so many things going on that mainstream people can't imagine like I mean I was in college the first time a man told me he would be happy for me to have sex with his wife and it wasn't a kinky weird thing it was like I'm not doing it she's wonderful I noticed that you guys like each other I just want you to know it's cool with me wow that's the first time since then there probably been I don't know half a dozen or something mother's like would you please have sex with my daughter she really you know there's a good one generally it's cuz she didn't like the

151:34boyfriend always yeah yeah so it's like what you show my daughter like there's a world out there that she doesn't know about yeah there's always that but then mean they recruit you and you got to take on the project well you know should you choose to accept it should you choose to accept it they expect you to stick around as well not necessarily ya know yeah so just weird stuff that people think like you know my god if you know you have sex with someone's wife and he knows he's gonna kill you well maybe not maybe he'll take you out for a beer afterwards and you'll be friends this is the subject of Ari Shaffir is podcast this week with our with Aubrey Marcus and they're talking about open relationship right and they get super honest it's very intense I think that we live in cultural patterns and that what we see around us we replicate I think there's a lot of evidence for that if

152:24you just pay attention forget about studies just look at how different people are in other parts of the world people that are putting plates in their lips and rings through their nose it's people that the way people tattoo themselves the way people express themselves and dance like human beings very so wildly and what we accept when we don't accept I was gonna bring up Japan earlier it's one of the more fascinating travel experiences I've had was going to Japan because when you go to Tokyo you realize like this is a completely different way of living like they have a completely different way of interacting on the streets they have a completely different way that they have decorated their buildings completely did like i-i've tattoos they told me I had to wear long sleeves at the gym I had to go back and change my shirt mmm they don't accept exposed associated

153:11with organized crime yes so I had to go back and just there's a lot of that like where you realize like this is a totally different way of living but if I live there I would live like these people so the the the momentum of these patterns in these cultures gets established and then it takes something radical to lift them and to free people from these patterns and once they're free from these patterns then they have a real opportunity to objectively assess the way they behave and whether or not this is the way they want to behave where they want to live or whether or not just expect it to because of this unthinking culture rights momentum I think that's what podcast is doing though the the big thing with podcast is that it's creating more narratives and it's creating more discussions about interesting subjects and more questions and discussions about like why we live

154:06our life a certain way and if you live a regular life with regular people what are the odds that you get a chance to sit down with a guy like you for three hours or a guy like Graham Hancock or a guy like you know fill in the blank well the fascinating people the you or I have talked to in our podcast and then these conversations get right into someone's head or they're the ear buds on whether at work typing some nonsense into some form that they have to fill out because that's what they do for a living yeah that's what's different and that's never happened before these I like no generation before the podcast generation had that option you had Howard Stern you had and it was always funny you had you know art bell was always weird and then you had like all the right-wing wacko dudes on am talk radio the Michael Savage is and you know the Rush Limbaugh's and you had

154:58all those people but you do much yeah you didn't have a guy who just talks about whatever he wants to talk about you had to be like well Chris before we give you this radio broadcast show what it what kind of a show you're gonna do you're gonna do a left-wing show you're gonna do a show on cooking what are you gonna do like now I'm gonna talk about sex and tribes and about how I think monogamy is just it's just a cultural construct and really the way we evolve like whoa whoa whoa whoa wow you hippie yeah there's no money in that like before you know if you came to someone and said hey I'm gonna write this book and it's gonna sell about 400,000 copies and it's basically saying monogamy is what do you think they'd be like what the out of here yeah no one's gonna buy that everybody wants to be monogamous and have a picket fence and live in the same row of houses

155:47where everybody looks the same everybody's got this you have an in-ground pool you lucky bastard you know but what what podcasts have done is expose why we accept things as fact and why we just choose it's because everybody around us does it we are such a massive product of our environment you know and I think when we were talking earlier about race and about race being a determining factor for IQ like you don't really ever know you might know from studies but you don't know until those people who have the high IQ have to live the lives of the people that have the low IQ and they have to have the same environment that they grow up in the same fears and the same influences negative and positive then you'll know and even then you won't know because there's so many determining factors like you know I know people that are just way smarter than me they're just smarter I just know they

156:45are they're just smarter what is that I don't know is it the amount of studying they've done is it the amount of knowledge there is that the the path that they were on is different than my path or is it just their brain works better but also what do we mean by smarter right you know I mean I look at at someone like you your discipline is a major factor in your success so is that part of being smart it's smart enough to understand the discipline is a worthwhile pursuit so what about someone who has a really high IQ that's sitting in a basement eating lots of ice cream and not doing what they want to do that's not smart decision making for yeah but it's very high IQ right so what do you mean well our hunter-gatherer these people in the Amazon we're talking about who can identify 500 different kinds of plants at a glance right and you know know the behavior of animals

157:38and all this stuff but you give them an IQ test in their did they're like under a hundred for sure well I've had conversations with people that are brilliant super brilliant people in science and they'll try to explain to me mixed martial arts and some up cockamamie way and I have to stop them mmm why would I stop okay right now you sound like a moral not professor but you're talking about something that I have a PhD yeah you know I have a PhD in people people up I understand it as good as anybody that's ever lived so if you start talking nonsense yeah how to people up Oh your kung fu instructor said that yeah oh I like Aikido I recognize that there's a lot of it's a fun thing to practice I mean it's fun to be able to flip people around like that and it would be a great thing to know if you lived in feudal Japan and you lost your sword and someone was coming at you and

158:30you had one chance at glory what what I love about Aikido is how it translates into psychological and emotional stuff so what we're saying earlier about how I don't engage with people who are emotionally triggered by sexathon to me that's like heat yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I learned that kind of thing for my kid okay first of all you don't need to engage secondly if you do engage what's important is that you stay calm and centered mm-hmm and most of the time people burn themselves out you don't even really need to like so long as you step out of show let people have what they need to have yeah for sure yeah but yeah as far as a fighting technique it's not what you're gonna pull up in this channel it's not but it's just my point is that people who are brilliant and are geniuses in one aspect of life simply don't have enough time to accumulate the same amount of data about everything

159:18they just don't sure whether it's about you know fill in the blank clockmaking or well you know whatever the it is there's just like there's things that people know that you're you don't know and it doesn't make you stupid it's just information the difference is between how you apply that information like if you're a really smart person you don't do with it you're a you might you might be a really genius person but if your life is falling apart it's all because of your shitty decisions and you've never tried to improve upon your thought process and just blame the whole world instead of yourself you're a even if you're really good at taking our Q tests that's it yeah I mean I don't personally I don't think that I'm particularly intelligent I think that what I can do that a lot of people don't do is think outside the box and connect dots that other people aren't connecting

160:07which is precisely because I didn't go to the right schools yeah and I didn't you know in my 20s I went and around the world for 20 years also you don't have like the tenure that you're working for or anything weird I can just walk around and figure it out and I mean that's not people that get stuck in that intellectuals that get stuck in that trap of having to toe the line you know in terms of like I mean good luck trying to find a conservative professor right and what is like 4% right identify as conservatives in mainstream universities and colleges some really ridiculously low number might be 10% whatever it is but it's like the vast minority yeah you know if one if you get one out of 10 you're super lucky I think that's probably not really again what do we mean by conservative right we it's it's so confusing cuz the older I get the more I realize that the language it's like one

161:05of those Venn diagrams where there's language and there's reality and there's some overlap but there's a lot that doesn't correspond right you know I get into this a lot when people are talking about homosexuality and whether it's you know human nature or its culture or whatever and it's like first of all what do we mean by homosexuality you and I've talked about this before this tribe in Papua New Guinea where the boys suck as much dick as they can because they think that semen contains the essence of masculinity and so it's like to them that's not homosexual behavior that's normal male developmental behavior and yeah we we look at that and say oh well that's gay but they don't see it as gay so again it's as you were saying we replicate the behavior we see around us they have adult homosexuality or they only have sex with kids I think it's only at least the only kind that's been

162:00reported by anthropologists because again there's a filtering there of korah is younger boys with older boys so it's the younger boys are giving to the older boys because that's the way to get stronger and more masculine well what a scam somebody pulled off we have got a new way of doing things around here running with my dick he pulls the grass skirt aside yeah oh here we go yeah well not yeah yeah it's eating drums sucking dicks pom pom pom pom pom pom pom pom there you go it's pretty crazy though again like what we're saying earlier that you can have these pockets of culture that they're radically different than other places but the people just adapt and conform to what's around them and I think that's the case with human beings everywhere I don't think it's just the people that live in New Guinea and it's not just the people that live in the Congo or the live in

163:07Woodland Hills it's people that live everywhere it's just how human beings behave and it's also interesting to look at how the culture reflects the environment yes right Marvin Harris wrote about this cultural materialism how how a culture responds to an environment sort of like how you know cacti live in the desert there's a reason for that you put a cactus in the jungle it dies immediately right it's adapted to an environment so you've got desert cultures right right you've got jungle cultures so the culture actually grows in a way that fits that ecological environment well yeah he was the first I think he's the first person to figure this out certainly the first time I read it like some Islands some cultures are cannibalistic and others aren't right why is that like I'd never thought about it like why would the Aztecs the their victims but the Christians

163:59didn't but the Christians killed a lot more they just left him to rot on the field why is that the Aztecs are particularly evil or something I don't know he applied this prism to it and showed that also in the South Pacific there are some islands that were the people are cannibalistic and other islands where they weren't and so he looks at all these and what he figured out was that in the places where people are cannibalistic there are no domesticated animals that eat different food than humans so for example you can't raise dogs for meat because dogs eat what we so it doesn't make sense but you can raise goats for me because goats eat humans donee right so in the places that are cannibalistic there was no nothing they could domesticate for protein so when he killed a human you ate him because your protein starved isn't that crazy so it's an ecological thing the Aztecs

164:57had no pigs right there's nothing they could domesticate no cattle they had turkeys I think was the only one they had a meat from a person that killed they were so psyched just not just gonna let it go yeah yeah they ever tell you that's the case with bears the Bears were all cannibals yeah all camels it's really dark my friend Jonathan saw a boar a male bear kill a cub and then saw the female eat it oh the female the female chased the male way and after he'd killed it she he was trying to eat it and she chased him away and she ate it she ate her own cub and he said he had heard that they did that before but watching that in person but they're all cannibals well lots of lots of mammal mothers will eat their young but these guys come out of the den looking for Cubs the the Correll spring bears yeah they do it for two reasons they do it one they they know now that it's not

165:56just to try to force the female into estrus again right they used to think it was just that but now they like if you shoot a bear other bears will claim it as theirs and start eating it and you have to chase them off like there it's the world of a bear is so hard scrabble and so fraught with peril and they have to you know you're talking about a 500 pound bear how much you have to eat every day yeah whatever you like 30 pounds of meat there's nary like moths and everything yeah they're machines what they are is they clean the forest up of babies that can't get away and any there's no overpopulating when there's dump hikers yeah well they oh that's they're so rare it's so rare and it's more black bears than his brown bears when brown bears kill people it's usually because someone up and came across a female with her and the female doesn't take any chances she you up but when a black bear

166:52eats you it's more likely for predation also a black bear will chase you up a tree yeah grizzly won't climb a tree right that's true and a lot of times when the black bears are near people the reason is because people have encroached on their their areas and then they started getting into eating garbage and they start getting into eating garbage they become a real problem because they're smart and they realize like wow I'll chase after some deer when I could eat this dude's trash and then I was just he just dude I don't know they don't think about the problems with that like this is gonna bring heat on the clan no they just that person up I spent a lot of time thinking about bears in Alaska you should yeah I was working at the first year so stupid I worked in this cannery and Kenai for like six weeks having salmon cannery yeah and I was 16 hours a day seven days a week

167:40just like full-on bustin it out because the fish are coming in and they got the lines running you know and at night I would go back and sleep in my tent down this Bluff where we were all camped out and so like you know after six weeks everything smelled like salmon everything my skin my tía my hair my butt everything and so after we left I was with these two other dudes and we were like let's go to McKinley and like hike for a while and you know gonna and we're walking back this dirt road and this this Ranger came along in his truck and he stopped and he was this cool guy you know and he's like yeah you guys been working like yeah man he's like yeah we're you've been working a cannery yeah hmm you're gonna go hiking out like yeah yeah he said do you realize that every bear within 20 miles of here can smell you it's and you smell like food like oh yeah I hadn't thought about that

168:43like getting the truck saved your life morning the guy who saved you from the scorpion gave you hepatitis but the other guy really saved you yeah dude bears and fish man that's a crazy combination and so the big years of DoDEA Cody I was out that's the whole deals that they're just fish each whales yeah they whales eat everything yes that is that's a bananas place to be man when you will get a 12-foot bears I worked on a boat the second year I worked on a boat that was based out of Kodiak really yeah did you get to see a lot of them yeah oh man I saw the Bears I saw orcas I saw all sorts of show yeah we were out in Prince William Sound orcas are the animal that I always point to that if they didn't exist and there was a legend of them it would be way more fascinating than Bigfoot hmm if somebody told you that there's some mammal that lives in the ocean and they

169:40communicate with each other through a complex series of sounds that we to this day can't understand and that there's several time they have accent they have accents yeah they have dialects they leap through the air and smash to they stay together in pods for life in a very strong family bond if they didn't exist if this was just like some Bigfoot type myth it would be way more interesting than Bigfoot because what is Bigfoot dude just wanders around the woods it's it's because Bigfoot looks like a human yeah you know so it's it's that wild yeah it's the dogs fascinated by the wolf you know right yeah exactly right that is exactly what it is like that could have been us you know that this sub-genre of women who read Bigfoot you should write some jokes that should be my move me but that's not right just what you're really like you kill right I'll write a blurb for you and I'm

170:30sure yeah I blur the lines between erotica and just like horrible hunting primal like slaughtering slaughtering of villagers and then the women that could be like some weird murder porn like you would yeah storm into some weird log cabin you do that he'll do that famous photo of you you know looking all badass in black and white that's the back one for the author that's your author photo for sure it drinks way too much coffee and it's getting me wet just thinking about it Wow you get wet 56 years old Joe got a little leakage by the way last week big big event in my life what have for us to exam how was that it was fabulous if you no no no but but is everything you look very healthy can I just say that thank you right now you look no and help last time I saw you you and me and Duncan we're here it's maybe three months ago there was a moment we're talking about

171:28something and you said you know going to yoga two days a week can change your life and you looked at me and I don't know that that this was happening on your end but in my end it felt significant if it was Chris you know just two yoga classes a week it changed your life and I I started going to yoga and I feel much better oh look at that that's why you're all healthy looking that in my my urologist so I got to tell you about this urologist though okay super cool guy would you give him four stars on Yelp I give him five yeah and in fact I've invited him bail on my podcast oh wow but he's hesitant to do it and I understand why he works for a big Hospital and I know he doesn't want to become a rock star but we ended up hanging out his office talking for the stood gave himself a vasectomy ooh he told me he's like that's how bad he didn't want to have kids pry his dick

172:27hole open away he was just like you know I'd do it I've done a lot of them I want to see how I could do it and he said you know my wife wasn't into the idea but she insisted that I have a colleague standing by in case I got into trouble so that made sense I did the guy was going a little to the left himself vasectomy that is the most badass thing I think I've ever heard did he like what did he do his feet I don't know the position he said it's on this side of the scrotum maybe yours bro oh you got yours but yeah that's what the proud of I get though they told me I had the biggest pipe well this did they tie my tubes they said never saw tubes like mine he said I saw I'm like a he said to me afterwards he said you got the prostate of a 20 year old I love you brother that's good here yeah it was really funny where are you fixed no you're not shooting live loads who knows who knows

173:30how live they are at this point well now you got defects in your loads yeah you get older you get defects right yeah so dude you really do look healthier like I'm not bullshitting like I saw that like instantly so two yoga classes a day or a week whether we come in here emaciated but two a week really can change your life yeah and I'm doing the like old-lady classes too those old ladies are tough as that's how they got to be old ladies dude like plank position I'm like lady come on my arms are shaking there's some old ladies in my class that Humble me I take you with these old lady's old housewives and they're tough is and they're in there every day I come there a couple days a week and they look at me like Oh decided to drop in because every day every day you see their progress - especially it's very impressive to me when you see a flexibility progress in

174:26old people and you realize like most of what we take for decide like oh this is how far your body should move when you're 60 or this is how your body should move you're 70 spacing the average person who doesn't do a goddamn thing with their body you don't grow hiking you don't eat right again it's based on what you see around you yes in Spain everybody goes for a walk after dinner you can be 90 years old they're out there walking after it's a way to go to see a nice place it feels good to have a meal and and walk around that's why it's like you ever eat in Malibu there's a Malibu seafood you ever see that you know that place right right on that little PC yeah yeah you eat outside it's really good that fresh seafood there I'm talking about the real in no no I think it's called Malibu seafood that's what's called but anyway the problem is getting across the PCH you

175:15got to get across PCH testifying oh you Park on one side ran across yeah yeah little kids you go to the real in it's on the PCH down near Topanga I heard that's good it is good and they got tables outside you can bring a dog and they've it's kind of picnic tables from anyway we talk about this after yeah there's something about you there's another restaurant on Malibu - that's a really good spot that's like right on the beach you can eat and then just go walk yeah it's like walking on the beach or just going for a walk like right after a meal that's what everybody's supposed to do yeah yeah for sure yeah helps digestion and when you live in a you know I saw this so much in Spain when you live in a culture that's healthy mmm you're healthy you know what my favorite example is Boulder Colorado no yeah you go to Boulder everybody's got Patagonia jackets on they're

176:03running up hills and yeah dirt bike riding there's a yoga place every corner and people are having fun having it's not work no it's fun it well exercise is fun that's what people to understand it's really fun it's not fun to be unhealthy and when you try to exercise when you're unhealthy it feels like because your body feels like but once you get the dust knocked off of it and get it moving and I'm not talking about CrossFit or MMA training or Jiu Jitsu I'm just talking about any kind of exercise just get that blood flowing you'll be a you'll be a better version of you I got a a bike I don't know if you know I've talked about this it's this electric assist mountain bike oh yeah my friend John Dudley has those they're so much fun yeah and where I live it's like uphill to get to any of the fire roads right so a normal bike I'm just not gonna do it yeah but this thing it only assists when

177:00you pedal right so no there's no throttle or anything right that specialized gave it to me because I had this dude on my podcast who's a professional mountain bike racer and he was like dude you got to get a bike you're in Topanga this is you know heaven here and I was like yeah but like that's where I would ride you don't way the up there and he's like yeah let me talk to some people well my buddy John Dudley uses those for deer hunting because when you walk on the ground well not just that when you walk on the ground you leave scent so instead of doing that he rides a bike so when you ride a bike you're just like deers nose is so much stronger and more powerful than ours that if the wind is at your back and the deers in front of you you're yeah you're just but if you play the wind correctly one of the best ways to avoid leaving scent if a deer passes by after you've been

177:51there is to ride a bike but you don't want to ride a bike and exert yourself because then you'll be sweaty then you have to sit in a tree stand you'll freeze your ass off right so instead he has these electric assist spikes and they're amazing yeah and when I was in Iowa we took these suckers out into the woods bond it's amazing like obsolete pill doesn't matter it's still an effort but it's not like it you don't it's just like like a light walk yeah awesome I took it out to Utah I was out in the van Scarlett two events and and I were out in Canyonlands that's so nice man that's so pretty and there was this one ride it was like 20 miles I think out on this Jeep track like you could never go on I mean even in a jeep you're like I'm serious four-wheel drive you're going two miles an hour on some things but on this bike just just cruising 20 miles out to where the Colorado and the Green

178:49River converge it's this Canyon nobody out there and I'm just cruising it's like riding a horse it's so cool well I did think at one point when I was going through this field with like tall grasses that I to a cougar I would have looked like impossible to resist yeah yeah maybe top speeds 20 miles an hour so what it got me most Cougars are not really into attacking people but they have attacked people on mountain bikes before sure yeah yeah I think it's like a yarn thing like a ball yarn yeah kitten right I just can't help it well you've got cats right yeah I somehow I feel like cats are similar enough that if I saw a cougar I would know how to deal with it just because I know cats man you can look at a cat do you see the video I posted up today where a guy in Boulder saw four mountain lions on a street floor together family was big ones for full-grown mouths not a

179:47mother and yet they don't hang together not according to this video go fullscreen and freak us out Jamie they're not happy this yeah but there's times look at that two big-ass grown-ass mountain lions and they go down Street look what do we have at the end of the road Oh another big-ass grown ass Mountain Lion and another one lying on its back over there Wow imagine turn that corner in your electric bike did you Matt they're in the road they're in the Road so this guy this is his house this guy's looking out of his house I guess he's outside of Boulder mountain lions don't give a that's where a mountain lion ate my dog and Boulder really yeah dogs all-time yeah then get him to hang around new your house they start targeting you dogs does he pray it's my wife's dog got eaten by a lion a real African lion oh that's more scary yeah yeah it's Africa look

180:45what kind of dog was it it was a small Pomeranian American Eskimo mix mmm it's a sweetheart of a dog mmm he was a great dog we're supposed to go yeah look there's just some stuff out there man between the Bears and the dogs are the cats and also the foxes foxes are amazing I mean I love foxes I mean I think they're really interesting animals and they're one of the few animals in the wild that will if you live in a certain area for long enough they will almost become domesticated they like they get close to you and hang out with you and you could feed them and though they'll like walk with you and hang out with you like real close by they're a weird animal they're not quite a wolf and they're not like a coyote like a fox our relationship with foxes is very playful you know yeah have you ever seen Grizzly Man yeah remember his relationship with the Fox hung around

181:39the campsite to his hat stole his hat ran away they were playing right like the Fox used to sit on his tent yeah he'd be right there be like how are you good morning today like that they would just hang with him and walk with him there's that lady sue a canoe lives she lives 200 plus miles above the Arctic Circle she's on that show life below zero there it is there's the Grizzly Man like look at this animal just hang in with him man I mean it's and that's the last wave out that's yep way the out but once they get accustomed to you they're very intelligent and they realize like this guy's not gonna hurt me then they become like your little buddy and if you give them food I mean this is essentially how animals got domesticated right right this is how wolves became dogs they just hung around with us long enough that we they were outside the edge of the campfire and we gave them food to keep

182:28them from you know attacking us or whatever but Fox isn't in particular they'll kill the out of your cat they'll kill your dog foxes will kill a lot of thing to kill a lot of fawns mmm you know it's I saw a fox on the internet with a fawn that was almost as big as its body and it was dragging this fawn across this this road and I was like oh I never thought it would kill something that big I would thought they'd get rats like yeah well they do generally right Marmot or not marmots moles yeah you see the how they jump they hear so well they can locate it under the snow and Jenna well here's how up I had a coyote kill one of my chickens recently and I buried the chicken and I was in the yard the other day I heard this noise and my golden retriever who has zero killer instinct I mean he'll he'll kill like a bird or something if he gets ahold of it but

183:22he's not like a guard dog he's a sweetie and he's like what is going on over there and these coyotes are on the roof of the hen house trying to pry away the the chicken wire I hear this clink clink and the clink Clank is the Coyotes biting the chicken wire trying to break it open to get into the chickens so they killed one chicken I chased him off I got a video over there I was gonna post their bells like this is too gross chicken that got up by this coyote he's plus it's sad I love those chickens they're like a pet you know so I dug a hole buried the chicken and the coyote dug the hole up and found the chicken and it was a couple feet down yeah you know wasn't a super shallow grave I mean that coyote smelled that chicken through two feet of dirt yeah and went and dug it out I went out there a couple days later I was like where's the chicken there's just

184:12a hole there I was like whoa this is crazy they could smell through the dirt man yeah they knew the chicken was down there it's crazy that's crazy you ever have strange experience with wild animals while you were tripping never zero experience with animals while tripping yeah you know I found a lot cuz I trip in the woods alone yeah man I know too much about the woods alone I want a trip inside of armed compound well that'll be safe loaded guns nearby yeah I just got you got a fear fetish no I don't know joking around half of it is for entertainment yeah I mean I've gotten I've done mushrooms in a field before it doesn't it didn't freak me out baseball field when Aubrey and I went bear hunting he took mushrooms one of the days hmm I didn't I wasn't with him you know when you go to your own little area or the woods by yourself I'd find it hard to shoot anything if I were

185:10tripping you wouldn't if you were hungry the thing about those things is like bear hunting is a weird one man because they need to control the populations because if they don't control the populations the Bears decimate the moose and the deer and they eat 50% of the fawns as it is right if all the deer population is out of control a lot of places not Alberta it's a healthy balance but it's only apparently a healthy balance according to biologists and it's not according to vegans or hunters but according to biologists it's only healthy if the bear population is kept to a certain number if it gets too crazy then they run out of food and then there's a lot of cannibalism already but then it gets even worse and you know then they start encroaching on cities and towns you know it gets it gets weird but they're they treated it in terms of like a number thing instead of looking

186:01at it from like a moral standpoint like should you kill an animal they're like well if you don't kill an animal this animals over balance this out overpopulated this animals going to be under populated now because they're gonna go after them they're gonna kill a disproportionate number of them they try to keep this so but bears are apex predators so yes who's killing bears other bears Grizzlies so then the sort of the ultimate balance is to just leave the Bears and let the other bears kill em that's a good balance but then you're living in a world where you have 11-foot 12-foot Grizzlies everywhere you go wandering into town as if you live in a place like Alberta right and some some areas of Alberta you have you know good population of elk and moose and deer well that means you're gonna have a good population of monsters so if you're comfortable with that

186:48you just have to decide like how much risk do you want to have yeah because once the Bears chew through them they're gonna go after you you should Bors with the bow yeah a friend of mine invited me to go do that in Hawaii Hawaii has to do it there's a good place because of that I don't have any predators and they up he was explaining that the boars up the coral reefs because they dig up all the dirt and then it runs off in the rain and it contaminates the bays oh that makes sense yeah so it's a really big thing in Hawaii that they have to really go after the boars as much as yeah there's a project right now in Maui where they they're gonna fence in an area and they're at the area that they're fenced in they have to it's like five thousand acres I think it is well they have to eradicate the deer that are in this one particular area because they're trying

187:41to reclaim the forest land and a lot of these deer holid the deer most of the large mammals in hawaii are non-native right and so these invasive species is access deer from Asia actually are just they eat everything nothing gets to grow if there's not gonna be a forest because the little things grow and they just eat them yeah they eat them right when they're coming up and they just there's so many of them so they also have a problem with people you know needing food so what they're doing is they're Lee they have this project where they're going out there hunting these animals killing them and then giving these the food to people for free and so they've set it up like this so they have a real sustainable food source for all these poor people which is the best meat in the world it's so delicious I was gonna say much better than you know industrial sure yeah well it's it's really

188:23good I mean even in terms of wild game animal they have the most delicious game animal there's like two thoughts it's usually it's either elk or access deer those are the two that go back and forth I've had both they're both amazing but access deer are everywhere you ever had bison you must yes yeah yes yeah that's that's yeah free-range pacing is amazing yeah it's amazing a cool animal to see in the wall yeah it's like a Star Wars Rock yeah exactly yeah we saw them in Yellowstone big heard of him just chilling but it was weird because they were so accustomed to people yeah that his lounge in like a hundred yards from folks can you imagine when they like where they shot him all but oceans of those things crazy do you know where that came from that's another one that's a weird one that I didn't know dan Flores is a fascinating guy he wrote a book a great book on coyotes called

189:10coyote America but he wrote a Pete it was a paper it was bison diplomacy bison ecology that's name but it's basically saying that what happened was when the Europeans came to America and the Europeans spread disease it decimated the Native American population by as much as 90% that is when the Bison boom happened yeah bison ecology and bison diplomacy the southern plains from 1800 1850 so what his what his take is that the overpopulation of bison was a direct result of these Native American people being decimated because their population dropped by 90% no one was hunting the Buffalo so the Buffalo just went crazy and there's like with no hunters chasing after one two three decades later you've got a ton of bison has running around everywhere and he points to early settlers that described in great detail all of the various game animals that they came across but nary a mention of

190:12the Bison and certainly not a mention of like these gigantic million-strong herds of bison roaming the plains mmm and he think that's a direct result of all their predators the Native Americans who had gotten really good hunting them and even you know even surplus hunting them where they drive them off cliffs and just gonna take what they could that was at the bottom yeah although it's also interesting to think how the introduction of horses would have oh that changed everything yeah horses and guns but what Dan flora says that is that just with just with Wyatt would just forget about European settlers just the Native Americans with horses and rifles were on their way to extra paiting to buy with the Bison hmm yeah crazy so we mean this is does not like exonerate all the Europeans that had the stacks of bones and that killed them in masks they certainly did that there's no

191:02doubt about it and that's what almost caused the the complete extinction that's the it was at the end it was the Europeans was us the settlers well but I star about the yeah well no wasn't even that is that's another thing that they think that there's not there was not a concerted effort to start about the Indians they wanted it for serpent for food they wanted the tongues yeah what I read is the Buffalo Bill in those dudes were shooting them and just leaving the bodies out there it was to wipe out the Lakota because they couldn't beat the Lakota that might have been done as well unless nine that's not what what killed them off I mean when you see these giant stacks of skulls they were doing that for using them as a commodity a lot of it was just for their tongues believe it or not their tongues were a very valuable delicacy and then it was for their skins and you know when they what

191:50they had meat hunting they what they called market hunting where they take guys who came back from the war and they were looking for a job but one of the best jobs and get are you good shot great you could be a hunter and they would go and shoot everything everything that moved and they wiped out all the Antelope all the elk all the but it wasn't just the Bison it's just the Bison is such an iconic thing and then obviously those piles of skulls it was unusual the amount of effort they put into killing them but I don't think it was necessarily just to just to wipe out them so that the Native Americans would star I'm sure they did that locally they were ready bury my heart at Wounded Knee no I don't think I did that's a beautiful book it's a really interesting book about the sort of final chapter of different tribes in North America Geronimo and the Apaches and ya know

192:41Sitting Bull and all these people and it's just really interesting the story of this sort of contact and the characters and the different things that happen yeah I read that when I was very young when I was you know running around in a loincloth apples at rabbits that is if you look at the human history look what is this here to shoot him from try and from trains yeah they did it for fun yeah crazy yeah there were so many of them they just thought they could just shoot them what else what are what a relationship with the natural world that represents you know well what this is what I was gonna say is like has there ever been anything like that other than I mean anything in terms of the impact of a group of people landing on a continent like nothing that we've ever observed to the greatest mortality in history forever and did great has changed to like not only that

193:35but this weird movement to the West and like landing landing on this weird continent that was filled with these people that lived in a completely different way I mean what are the odds that you're gonna get to a place you think of where Europe was in the 1700s the 1400s you know when they first started arriving and think of the sophistication with the boats and the written language and all the different things and then they show up go across the ocean and land to a place that has zero cities no there were cities tonight land was was bigger than almost all European cities when Cortes walked into it that's in Mexico for the Aztecs were right and they also had sewage and lit streets they did more in South America than they did in North America right ya know north from I mean you're talking about America Canada there was nothing comparable at that point yeah that's

194:29what I mean like when they're landing here and they made their way all the way to California they're not encountering a single city right I mean that's just bananas you've got thousands of miles just natural people living in tents ya know crazy you ever sleep in a teepee no this place in terlingua I stayed in a teepee Jeff thank you the microbiology guy he's got a bunch of her microbiome --ga he's got a bunch of teepees they're like luxury beautiful teepees luxury teepees great and what's a luxury tepee Jaime base camp terlingua you'll see there's a fella beautiful base camp and Terlingua Terl ing you a terlingua it's uh yeah they're they're sweet they're they've got like a concrete base and maybe a three foot wall around it and then the teepees on top so the man doesn't around nice and then he showed me the design if teepees is really interesting it's like

195:24if they're designed so the wind comes under the teepee yeah oh that's dope check that out oh so they they rent those out yeah oh this is crazy we offer a once of a kind one of a kind 20cc experience with our the massive 26-foot teepee over the top of sunken Kiva what's a Kiva Kiva is like a Hopi dwelling its semi-submerged each of our three luxury each of our three luxury teepees has a comfy side comfy king-size bed fold-out couch plenty of seating runs throughout sink under counter fridge curate coffeemaker the microwave or you can make microwave popcorn outdoor firepit I think it outdoors one word there isn't it house a private bath house private hey Jeff with the times yeah she's so smelt ins yeah it's a beautiful area it looks like it man that looks badass is it nice Wow slept in both those house that's cool hundred-year-old on gym rebuilt this or

196:27100 year old ruin located in the heart of terlingua ghost town that's amazing do we got to wrap this up yeah I'm sure you do tangentially reading it's out now anybody can get it everywhere all the places that they sell books and of course tangentially speaking places you get podcast as it is this is man I'm glad you did this I'm glad you became a podcast guy yeah with the podcast world is richer for it well thank you I appreciate it I'm richer for it thanks to you and Duncan Chris Rogaine yes hey you guys tomorrow bye Oh