Rita Ora: “I Lived With Constant Anxiety”…After Being Signed By Jay-Z At 18!!! (E265)
Guests: Rita
Full transcript · Read the full conversation in order, with its original context.
§01Transcript — part 1
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I was on a roller coaster ride. I was living my dream, but then when I would wake up, it would be silent, and it wouldn't feel nice.
Rita Ora is an international pop star who has had the most solo female UK top 10 singles in history.
Everything I've done is about to disappear.
Who is Rita Ora?
I came to the UK when I was one. We refuged from the war in Kosovo. There was a sense of having to overwork to prove myself. I was a naive, young dreamer, and that's exactly what you should be at that age. I was backed up by Jay-Z. After my first album, everything shot to number one. My life just changed overnight. I was looking for things in the wrong places. I just went rebel. Eating really bad, I was drinking, and the media and all the fame... I was having the craziest panic attacks.
It feels like a weight that you've been carrying for a long, long time.
Yeah. I mean, there's nothing that anyone could say when you feel broken that is going to put you back together. Don't believe all the promises that people tell you.
What was the advice you needed but didn't get?
Oh man.
In life, sometimes the external world will craft your narrative and your story and your identity for you. And often we're told that saying less is more. Rita, for much of her life, has followed that philosophy. But today, she's decided to say more. And what you learn from this conversation will be illuminating, it will be inspiring, and it will make you understand Rita Ora, the person you've seen and heard about for a decade. But maybe even more importantly, through this conversation, the twists, the turns, and the untold stories of a young woman who was signed at 18 by Jay-Z—it’s a crazy, crazy story. You're going to learn something about yourself. I know I did.
Rita, hello. Take me back. Where do you come from?
I am from Pristina, Kosovo, in a country called Kosovo. It's tiny; it's gorgeous.
What brought you here?
I came to the UK when I was one, in 1991. I was born in 1990. We refuged from the war in Kosovo and I've been living in London ever since.
Why did your parents choose to come here of all places?
I think it was just such an easy route as well. It was close enough to home but not close. It was also a lot of family and cousins that my parents already knew moved to London, so it was kind of the safest bet for them, I think.
And you were one, and your siblings—were they older or younger?
So, it was just me and my sister. I was one, and my sister was three; she's two years older than me. My brother wasn't born yet; he was born here. So, it was just four of us, really.
When you arrived here, I read that you were taken to a care home?
So, when we first moved to London—not that I remember properly, obviously, I was a kid—but my parents obviously asked favors from some existing friends that they already knew here, and we just moved around a lot. It wasn't necessarily a care home, but it just wasn't our home. But it never felt hard. My parents were really good at kind of still celebrating our birthdays and playing music. My upbringing was so happy, and so I was really lucky. We never really saw the struggle. My parents were really good at that.
You know, when you first came here, sometimes you hear these stories—and I've sat here with a lot of people who have come here when they were very, very young. I've got one particular friend who's been on this podcast before; she's very successful, she's one of my best friends. She came here when she was a baby as a refugee. When she first arrived here, there was an early-life separation event because her parents essentially couldn't take care of her, so they had someone else looking after her. I sat here with Gabor Maté—do you know who that is?
Yeah! Wow, he’s one of my favorites ever.
He talks about those early moments. I was trying to understand at that early stage if there was a separation event or if your parents had—because I read the word "care home" somewhere.
Yeah, well, it wasn't really a separation. But it was a room given to us by the government, the council, and it was not a council estate house; it was just more of like a temporary home. So, maybe that's where you kind of got the phrase "care home." From what I remember, it was in Earls Court, and then we actually moved to our council flat in West London.
And you've lived in West London most of your life?
And I've been in West London my whole life, yeah.
What is it you inherited from your parents in terms of character? For better or for worse? I say that because some of the things that I'm most proud of are things that my parents probably didn't intentionally give me. They weren't in the "how to raise a child well" manual.
No, I don't think my parents were doing that either. They were also really young. I mean, I think we're kind of in the same age bracket now, but with my parents, they were having kids at like 22, 23, 24. If I'm thinking, gosh, having a kid then now, that would be crazy different. But there was a lot that they taught me without knowing. For example, the language was always spoken in the house, so luckily now I can speak two languages—now, I'm not amazing at it, but I understand and can read it and speak it. A lot of resilience, like a lot. That was a big thing in the house: hard work, resilience, and sort of showing up and sticking by your word. When you tell someone you're going to do something, you better do it because otherwise, that's like a big—it's just sort of a real disrespect if you promise someone something and you don't deliver.
Your mother was a doctor back in Kosovo?
Yeah, a psychiatrist, yeah. Great, she's so cool. My dad actually studied economics and he was doing that, a lot of accounting stuff. They moved here and basically had to start again. So my dad worked in a pizza spot in Notting Hill Gate, and my mom didn't work, and she started to learn the language and basically figure out how she was going to get her degrees and things. Then she just had to restudy to get the qualifications. My mother did anyway; I remember that. That was hard.
It was hard?
Yeah. Well, it was a lot because I was going to school, my sister was going to school. We were living in a council estate in Ladbroke Grove, which is big up West London—I'll love it forever. But at the time, she was trying to qualify her English studies, studying psychiatry, and she was also battling breast cancer. So there were three things, and she was also in her 30s, which is really rare. She was like in her late 30s when she actually got breast cancer the first time. And so, there was a lot happening at once. So, yeah, that was my memory of that point.
At that young age, I think we start to kind of figure out who we are and how we're different. I think we start to develop suspicions that we're talented in this way, or different in this way, or maybe we have a problem with authority in this way. What did you, at that young age, start to figure out about yourself and who you are and why you were different—or if you were different in certain ways?
Yeah, I mean, parent evening was always an interesting one because my parents at the time couldn't really speak English. So my sister, bless her, even to this day, she was always the one that was helping me with my homework or got to a certain age where she was kind of the one that was helping me with my math homework because my mother couldn't really do it. She'd be like, "Oh Elena, can you read that?" My sister, her name's Elena. "Can you do that or can you do that?" So it was interesting to see like now as adults how much pressure my older sister actually had, and it was kind of difficult, I would think, for her. I don't want to speak for her, but I think it definitely felt like we were sort of running the ship while they were kind of trying to collect all the pieces and put food on the table, really.
So yeah, primary school had a lot of ups and downs. In school, it was super fun. And then, yeah, and then we did like Cinderella and it was all these really fun musical things. I got the Cinderella role in like year five, and that's when I was like, "Oh, I could do this singing thing. I kind of like this." And that's when I think I really thought, "Oh, I think I want to be a singer." So, interesting, yeah.
How did you know you were good at it?
I didn't! I just got the role. And then I thought, "Well, I must be good since I got the main role of Cinderella."
Did anybody give you any feedback? Did anyone come to you?
Yeah, I did do school choirs, you know. I would go to the school choirs after school, and I loved this teacher, her name was Susie. She really worked me hard and she would really include me in all the choirs and they would do a lot of charity events and things like that. I would always take a solo and she actually called my parents and said, "You know, I think you should really try and hone in on Rita's music talent because I think she's got something special." And that's sort of where it started.
How did your parents receive that phone call? Because they’re traditional parents, right?
Well, my mom was really excited. And so was my dad, but my dad was more practical. I mean, they're kind of old school, you know. My parents are still—they were raised in Kosovo, so it was get married, have babies, you know. And so my mom always was a dreamer, you know. She definitely still is. She was always like, "Sing for us at parties and this and that." But I don't think either of them thought I would ever do a job in this, actually sort of do it for real.
When you used the word "resilience" a second ago as one of the things that your parents taught you—I’m assuming from that you mean that you observed them being resilient as well.
They worked really hard. They still do, even though they're getting a bit older and they kind of feel like retirement is close. I think deep down they don't ever want to stop working. But they were so, so real in the sense of being completely open with money and work. My father sort of doing double shifts sometimes and, you know, my mom when she would get stressed, it would really impact us, me and my sister. We always used to sleep together because I don't know, I guess I didn't want to sleep alone. And so we would always kind of just hear them talking, you know, like mumbling away when we were younger. But it was interesting because it was so nice to have my sister with me. I don't know how I would have done that alone, you know?
What, coming to the UK and growing up here and...?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just sort of doing that whole thing I explained to you alone. I just can't fathom it, honestly. You know, there are some friends I have that have no siblings that have the same sort of story as me that have done it alone, and I'm just kind of like—I can only, I don't know, I just don't know. It's nice when you don't feel when you have someone else going through the same thing as you, you know.
Well, a lot of people as well don't have a situation where they watch their parents kind of like fighting to survive.
Yeah. And that's a—that's in some respects quite a traumatic thing to observe, but it also means that there's a certain absence. I can relate that with my mother. Like she was so obsessed with working that she would sleep in that shop in her little corner shop. And it was like watching someone fight to survive. I feel like I have a privilege where I'm thinking more about like happiness and fulfillment and all of these next-level things, but my mom was like "food on table" attitude.
So was mine. I think that the hard work really does stem from me knowing that I'm, you know, not my blood isn't English, but I feel English. I am English. I mean, I was raised here; this is my home, you know. But there was a sense of having to overwork to prove myself, yeah, for sure. Like "I deserve to be here" kind of thing.
Does that ever stop?
No. I mean, I actually asked myself this the other day. I was like, is it enough? But I'm always like I want more, I want to do it again, what's next? And it just—I don't think it will ever go away. I don't think that feeling of me feeling satisfied will ever happen. I don't know. I love working, you know, I'm really lucky. I do do what I love. It's not like I wake up dreading what I do. But it's more like, yeah, you're right, like it doesn't—I just don't know if I will ever be like, "I did it," you know. I'm always like, "Okay, so now what? You know, what's next?"
Is there sometimes when you have a child that came here as an immigrant or came here early and watched the generation above them fight for survival, they almost inherit this fear of losing it all? I'm thinking about my friend here, the one I said that you remind me of. Her story is very, very similar—came here as a refugee when she was young. She is an obsessive workaholic. And I feel like—she called me the other day in fact, and I'm sure she won't mind—I'll have to ask her if I can share this—but she called me the other day and she said to me that because there was so much insecurity in her childhood in terms of like things didn't feel secure, her work is the only thing that gives her that sense of security as an adult, so she's fighting to maintain that.
Yeah, I relate to that. It definitely is one of my reasons of purpose, for sure. Which is a blessing but also a curse because obviously if things don't always turn out how you want, it ends up crumbling more of you than you need it to. Does that make sense? So you kind of feel less than rather than remembering everything else that you've done because that one incident, for example, may of not of gone how you wanted it to, everything's gone wrong. And I think that's something that I've been really working on as well with my therapist. It's almost sort of like compartmentalizing things. But because my life is my work, it almost regulated my sense of happiness, which I think sometimes could be really damaging, you know. Especially if you kind of wake up not feeling good about yourself or you sometimes wake up and you're kind of like, "Ugh, I'm not feeling it today," which is I think what everyone goes through and I definitely go through it. You know, I've really got to remember, you know, there are other points that bring me joy. That's something I've been really working on, especially in my 30s now I'm getting a bit older.
And when you were, I think you were 15 years old, your mother Vera...?
Vera, yeah. Like aloe vera!
Same as my grandmother.
Oh, cute! It's a rare name.
It is very rare. She was diagnosed with breast cancer. And this, from reading through your story, was quite a pivotal—seems to be quite a pivotal moment in your life even still today, I think.
Oh yeah, it was really hard for me. It was like—I don't know why I always say this, but you know, I felt like my parents were like superheroes. Like they were untouchable, undiable, you know. And I was just almost like nothing is going to crack them. And then when I sort of saw my mom starting to kind of get weaker and weaker and lose her hair, I was thinking, "Oh my gosh, they can also die," you know. And it was almost like, "What am I going to do?" And I took it upon myself to try and find a solution. And obviously, you know, I couldn't. But you don't think that all the way through; you're just seeing your mom just kind of really weak and you know, I was skipping school and I would just, you know, I just went rebel and it was really hard for me.
You went rebel?
Yeah, I just really went the opposite way and, you know, my parents worked really hard to get me into this school, which was a—it's a really famous school and it was a fantastic Sylvia Young Theatre School. And it's like—I mean, it was the best times of my life was at that school. But when my parents were, you know, struggling and my mom was ill, I just couldn't focus. I just couldn't focus in school; I was just distraught. And I just kind of wanted to be with her all the time, but she didn't want us to see her like that. So, you know, she wouldn't take us to her treatments and she'd wear a wig and things like that so she wouldn't really kind of—we wouldn't visually see the pain, basically.
You were trying to find a cure, you said.
Yeah, so weird, right? Like I don't know. I think I was just—I think me and my sister almost blamed—I don't know what—we were just trying to find the answer. And it's like obviously we would have done anything to get our mom out of that pain, you know. So yeah, we didn't really know what we were going to do, but we just went into sort of survival panic mode. And yeah, that was my experience. I was just really struggling with it; it was really hard for me.
Is Rita before that incident different to Rita after that incident in a like a fundamental way?
Yeah. I just really do appreciate people, my parents, more than I did before. So you know, like every kid sometimes your parents kind of get on your nerves or you're like, "Ugh, I can't stand them when they do this or that," but I always think like you just don't know when they're going to go. So I've really made a conscious effort to appreciate them more than ever. And if I ever see my siblings or the ones that I love kind of naturally just react out of instinct or something, I'm like, "Just remember, you know what I mean?" It's like just that your parents—you don't want that to be the last thing that you say to them, you know. That's where my head is at now.
We cope in a variety of different ways to these traumatic events. Some people, you know, you described becoming a bit of a rebel; some people, I mean, use work as a convenient distraction; other people go to therapy and confront it head-on. How do you cope? How are you a coper when when these kind of things happen in life? How does Rita cope?
Work. I just really throw myself into work or I try and find a project that I'm really passionate about to just sort of distract. I'm good at distracting myself, for sure. Yeah. I mean, therapy's been an incredible thing that I've discovered, you know, since I was 26, I kind of started. And my mom always would say, "You should do it, you should do it." Obviously she doesn't use her sort of doctorness on us, but you know, she was really adamant on us doing therapy. And then I finally, you know, again you have to find it yourself, and so I did. And that really helps. But work is something I do really focus and distract myself with.
This whole concept of like mental health is quite a new one in our society. I read that you decided—you started having anxiety attacks and panic attacks and stuff shortly after your mother's diagnosis?
Mm-hmm.
And I'm presuming you hadn't had those before?
No. I never really understood when people would say, "Oh, I have the panics," or "Oh, I got such bad anxiety." I would never really kind of like—but then it happened. I think it was the idea of losing the one that—the ones that I love that kind of put me into panic. I like structure, I like routine, I like trying to resolve situations.
Security?
Security I was never really obsessed with. It's weird. I was more obsessed with like me just knowing that I have a routine to go to work. You know, I'm always in fear of losing everything that I've got. I don't think that will ever go away. And I actually spoke to somebody who's a very famous actor, and you'd never think in a million years that they have that fear. And he said that there is a therapist that just deals with the fear of losing the money, the the whatever it is that they're obsessed with or that they love at such a high level. I mean, this person is one of the biggest actors in the world. And so I was I was like, "What? How? This person deals with that?" I couldn't believe it. So it's nice to know that, you know, it's a common thought, I think, especially if you come from not a lot of money.
Yeah, and like if you come from a place where you've seen the opposite, but also just the fragility of of it—I mean, you must have been inundated with stories when you were a kid of like, "I used to be a doctor and now I'm having to go back to square one again." Because your your father was like a restaurateur back in Kosovo and and you so you've kind of seen, even if you weren't there to see it, but you've heard the stories of going from here to here.
Really quickly, too. Really quickly. It's hard, yeah. I mean, it is something that I like have nightmares about sometimes.
Really?
Yeah, because I think now it's not just about me, you know. I think ever since I started, I was always speaking, I'd like to think, on the majority of people that don't necessarily get the shot that I got, you know, coming from where I'm from, being able to live my dream. If I didn't move to the UK, I don't really know what I would be doing. And so I was always really vocal about my gratitude and sort of like, "This is possible." And that's why I work with UNICEF and I go and do these trips as an ambassador because I see these kids and I really want to kind of put this hope in them. Yeah, that's a massive priority for me.
Reading between the lines I was I was hearing like the gratitude, like the—with that sometimes comes another feeling which is like, "Why me?" You know, of all the because you look back at the dominoes that had to fall for you to be here and you go, "Ooh, why me?"
True.
Why you?
That's a good question. Yeah, I guess I I got something to say. I think if you have something to say and you can create this following of of honesty and and you have this real fan base of people that think that they know you, I think that's something that can live on forever. And I think that's something that I inherit. I have this sort of genuine connection that I love people. I genuinely do. I love talking to people, hence why I got into TV. I do really enjoy communicating and making people feel what I'm feeling or trying to give people a sense of happiness or joy or just kind of being like, "You know what? I get that too," or "Oh, she's just like us." Because that's what I was looking up to when I was a kid, you know. All the singers I loved growing up were super relatable and super transparent. Tina Turner, who has the same birthday as me—so I never have met her, R.I.P. Tina, but I always felt so connected to her because I knew everything about her and she was so honest with her story. And so that's sort of the footprint I want to make. I want people to—you know, I know not everyone's going to like me, you know; it's normal. But at least they're going to know the story and appreciate the climb.
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Basically that. From that—so the first time you you joined that choir to when you first get signed, what happens in that period in terms of like the things that you controlled to make you go from the choir to the record label? When you look back and go, "The reason why I got from there to there was really it comes down to X." What is that X?
Showing up. So the reason why I think I got there is because I interned at a recording studio and I was making people tea and mopping the floors for free and delivering backing vocals for free for people that needed harmonies, Craig David being one of them. And I was there. I was ready. I was available. I was existing within the atmosphere and I was there at the right time. You have to be willing to get up and get out of bed and just be there. You have to show up, whether it's like offering your work for a place and knowing you're not going to get paid but you're going to be amongst musicians or something like that, or it's about being heard. And you know, I would sing at my dad's pub, I would—I'm on Portobello Market working in a sneaker shop and I was controlling the music in the shop and I would play like a demo of mine and I would just try everything I could to just sort of be there, be present, be seen. Yeah.
What was your aim at that point? In terms of if I had if I had asked you, you know, what are you going to be when you're older? When you're working in that shoe shop or when you're interning? Did you—would you have said, "I'm going to be Tina Turner"? What what?
I didn't know what I was going to do. I didn't have a plan. I just was like, I need to figure this out because I left college and my dad was so mad at me and I—I mean, he didn't speak to me for ages. And he just wanted me to have a real secure future, which I understand, but I just I said, "Dad, just let me do this for a year and if I can't do it, I will go back to college." And now I'm 31 and I haven't gone back to college yet.
Is he okay with it?
I think he's okay now.
Okay, good.
But I do think that there was a lot of fear circulating around that time of my life because I was like, I have to figure it out. But you know, there was a Steve Jobs quote and it's kind of like, if you have a plan B, you're never really going to put your all in plan A. And I didn't have a plan B at all. It was like working in the shoe shop and then going to intern at the studio and hoping something is going to like figure it out. I don't know, something was going to happen. And it did.
What happened?
This A&R lady came in for another artist that was recording in that studio facility. And there was a demo that I lended my vocals on because they needed somebody to sing it. The producer that owned that studio was making music with a lot of other producers and musicians, and he didn't have a vocalist to cover this one song. Long story short, it got around and they were playing this music because they were selling these songs to their artists, and then somebody said, "Okay, well who's singing that?" And it was me. And they were like, "We want to meet this person," and that's kind of when everything started to click. And that was Jay Brown, who works with Jay-Z, and that was the whole introduction to signing to Roc Nation.
And you—I heard they got you on a plane, you flew out there, you went to some party...
I did all of that, yeah. I did the whole thing.
For them, and they signed you straight away?
Yeah, they did. They signed me straight away kind of like that night. I was exhausted. I flew in from London and it was scary but it was so exciting. It was like *br-br-br* everything was happening at once. I just—
How old were you?
Just turned 18. Wow. And then I moved to Brooklyn. I went from sharing a room with my sister to having my own apartment in Brooklyn like overnight.
What was the advice you needed but didn't get at that point in your life?
Don't believe all the promises that people tell you.
Interesting. What should we do instead? Other than believing the promises, we should...?
I think other than believing the promises, you should work on what your craft is to make sure that you can stand alone and not need anybody else to help you stand up. That might not mean a straight-away number one record, but at least you have your DNA, and that for me is timeless and it can really help you in the longevity of a career. Having a quick one-hit obviously is great, but then what, you know? And so that's what I've learned. It's like not everything is going to go *whoosh* and then you're like, "I'm good forever," because it doesn't work like that. I wanted people to love me as a person and really sort of back me up because they liked me. And then came the music and then came the TVs and whatever else that we're doing, but it was just important for people to really feel like they know me.
Why?
Because I felt like if everything goes bad, at least people will love me as a human. Which is a real kind of—I would say, is it an insecurity? Maybe. It is a bit of an insecurity sort of factor of wanting to feel wanted. But with music and with entertainment, your job is to really be present for these people and really show up for these people and everyone that's watching and to take them out of their misery. And so sometimes it's not about your misery or about what you're going through, and you've got to really just be selfless.
Have you always had that in you, that desire to be kind of wanted? If you go back to, you know, the first 18 years of your life, have you always had that desire to just be wanted and to be accepted?
A little bit.
Why are you smiling?
Because I remember it was more about like—I don't know, I guess growing up I was me and my girlfriends, you know, we were like the—we were really sort of flamboyant, you know, with our like looks and we would wear makeup and we would wear all these crazy clothes. And yeah, we did get attention for it, and sometimes it was the wrong sort of attention, but we were just sort of kids figuring it out. But that's why I'm laughing because we were so not knowing—now thinking back it was like we had no idea what we were doing. But that was my first feeling of like, "Oh, people are liking what I'm looking like," or "They like what I'm wearing," or "Oh, that feels kind of good," you know. And then I got into the public eye and I was sort of like *yikes*, it's so intense! It's not as controlled as it was when I was walking up and down Portobello Market.
You know, because we you talk about that moment of maybe you would have whispered in Rita's ear and told her to like focus on her craft and what she can own so she's not reliant on other people. But when you're 18...
Yeah.
And I suspect from where you come from, you just want to kind of please people and you want to just—any opportunity is a better than Portobello Road shoe shop.
Yeah, I was a naive, young dreamer, and that's exactly what you should be at that age. I mean, you're not supposed to be anything else. All you want is to just win and you want to do well and you want to impress. I was backed up by some real big, big people, you know, Jay-Z and these huge artists that are timeless and fantastic, and I wanted to be as good as them. And so when I was 18, I was like, I will do anything to kind of be at that level and everything that was given to me, I was sort of like, "Let's do it, let's go, let's go, let's go! Sure!" Because they must be right and I must be wrong because they're huge superstars and I'm not. So there was that as well that was going on.
So interesting. Because I think even if people aren't in the music industry, they can relate to this in their everyday jobs, which is sometimes we think there's we cannot question authority in any regard, and we cannot question if someone's successful and they have a path for us, we should just do what they say and follow that path.
But they're not always right, even the big, big guns. You know, like it's about your story. It's, you know, you have your own script that's about to be written out for you. And I think now I'm at this point where I wish I knew that because I can really dictate that now, which is really cool. But I think that comes with age. I mean, what are you going to do? You're young; you're not supposed to know all those things. You know, you've just got to hope for the best.
And learn from your mistakes, right?
Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm not perfect; everybody knows that. I think I've been a very transparent public figure, you know, and I've never sort of denied or I've always been super honest with my fans. And I will continue to do that and sometimes make mistakes along the way.
Because you have had such an extreme career experience starting at 18, what are some of the universal lessons that you might turn to someone who is a little bit further down the ladder in terms of their career, maybe they're working in a completely different job, but some of that advice? You said like about questioning authority and that people don't always know what's best for you. But in terms of how to be successful...? Because you would have seen both sides of that coin with those eyes. You've seen why people come become successful and why talent is often not good enough for some other people.
Yeah, it's true. Well, you know, I think it's about longevity, it's about being a businesswoman, and I think it's really important to get the right team. You know, I've had the same team since I was 16. Really? I don't really like changing people up around me unless I really have to. I like familiarity, I like consistency. Now, it's also about sacrifice. I think I've missed a lot of things: birthdays, family events, funerals, weddings, everything you can imagine for my job. So, for example, going on tour, even going to visit things and seeing shows or going to get inspired on—you have to always be willing to work and be consistent in getting inspiration. That's also a big thing for me.
Creatively, I think you have to be wanting to achieve those things. So it's like, "Oh, I want to do a rock and roll album." Okay, so let's go learn the DNA of rock and roll and do it properly. Or read a book, or I want to be an author of self-care, or I want to learn how to—I don't know. I do the homework. I'm a big person, I'm a massive nerd in music. You know, I do pop music but I know a lot, and people get really surprised. You know, I I do play a lot of different genres and styles and all my inspirations come from me being a nerd and learning music from composers to mixers to producers to who did what behind the scenes. It's like you have to do the homework. And then you have to convince people to do it with you. That's like another stage. So you're constantly really just working, selling. Yeah, I think especially with everything that you do, you know, it's like 10,000 hours. Like I really believe in that theory, you know.
That it takes 10,000 hours to become a master?
Yeah, I do, I genuinely do. I do that a lot as much as I can.
Are are you a confident person? It's an interesting word because it means so much, the word "confidence," but do you just do you think you're a confident individual? Let me define it: When you set yourself a goal, or you flirt with a goal... are you the type of person that goes, "100% I can do that"?
I'm good at being an autopilot confident person.
What does that mean?
Where you can just slip into being confident as in masking it as much as you possibly can. Like I'm—you won't ever see my face kind of feeling a sense of doubt or insecurity if I'm having to show up as Rita Ora. But I always have it going on in my mind: "Do they like this? Am I saying the right thing? Do I look weird? Am I wearing crazy clothes?" I mean, I do it because I love it and I go out there and I'm like, "This is who I am," but I have the doubts constantly in my mind: "Is it good enough? Is it good enough? Is it good enough?"
What’s your journey with confidence been like? Because people will look at you today and I think they see you on the red carpets in these great outfits and stuff and smiling and *pat-pat-pat-pat-pat-pat*, and they go, "Oh, she's just born confident. She's just born with it and she's, you know, she's got self-doubt isn't a thing for her, never imposter syndrome, none of that. That's just me."
No. No, I have it all, like really intensely. But I do everything in my power to like keep my brain and my heart calm. So my thoughts are going to be there; I've discovered that and I've accepted that. But now I'm really getting good at controlling where they live. Whereas before, it was really hard for me to do that, and that's what therapy's really helped me do. So I've become really obsessed with working out and being physical and figuring out what I eat, and I fast a lot, and I do a lot of that. And it kind of keeps me calm. I don't put myself—my self—into situations where I'm going to panic. Like if I don't want to go somewhere, I just won't go. And before, I'd be like, "Oh, I have to do this" or "I have to do that." And you know, I think as you get older you're like, "You know what? You don't have to do these things anymore." And a lot of meditating, a lot of incense and smells—I'm a big smells person. But these are my tools. This is what helps me. I don't journal as much, but I did journal for this album that's out, and it was great. I mean, would I do it all the time? No. But I do more of kind of like voice notes and working out and meditating and eating well. Yeah, that's like my thing.
Have you gone on a bit of a journey with understanding how Rita's feeling? Because I hear in the 18-year-old that moved to Brooklyn, that seemed to be a person who was very much just listening to the external world's impression of how she should be feeling: "You should be happy now." And then it seems through your story that there was kind of a—there's been a pivot helped via therapy where you're getting better at understanding how you truly feel in situations.
Yeah, but you know, it's still a struggle, you know. I've felt like—I mean, like anyone, when you feel overwhelmed with something, it's like your whole world is falling apart, you know. It wasn't just work; it was everything, like my love life, my friendship with my friends, and I wasn't paying attention to, you know, the ones that really loved me for me.
When was this?
Well, just sort of in my 20s, after my first album. Everything shot to number one. My life just changed overnight. It was like, "Okay, let's go!" And so, you know, I was just doing that. I was living my dream, I was, you know, going out with my band and, you know, just not really checking in with my closest friends and my families and I just—I lost touch a little bit. I was on a roller coaster ride, and then I kind of brought that back, you know, I did when I in my second album and now my third album. This time round, I'm, you know, I'm in a completely different sort of head space.
How did you know you'd lost yourself? Because we find out—we typically find out after, because of some kind of symptoms. In the moment we don't know, but what was the symptoms that you'd lost yourself?
Well, the search of being wanted and being loved by, you know, boyfriends and things like that. There was—
What do you mean?
It was just sort of like my 20s felt a real—like I was kind of lone—alone. And so, you know, I was looking for things in the wrong places, you know, with love, and sometimes it wouldn't be good for me and people would tell me and I wouldn't listen. I was eating really bad, I was drinking, and my dad was so, so, so on board with, you know, helping me and, you know, I grew up in a pub, so it was like there was always drinks going on and, you know, parties and I was jumping on the bar and singing songs. And so alcohol was just like a real normal thing in my family. And it was fun, it was—it was just a fun time for me in my 20s. But then when I would wake up, it'd be like silent, and it wouldn't feel nice. So yeah, that's what I mean about my messy 20s. It was—it was just a journey. It was like what anyone would go through, though, you know. I've learned to understand that not everyone figures it out in their 20s.
That's such an interesting way to describe it. "It was silent and it didn't feel nice." So many people can relate to that.
Yeah, yeah, you know, you don't want to live in silence sometimes because you don't want to kind of understand you.
That's so true.
Yeah, and so you're kind of like, "Put the radio on! Go do *ta-ta-ta-ta*! Do something! I don't know!" Anyway, that was me, yeah.
But you did something that most people who would say that didn't do, which was then you went and you started your journey in therapy, which is literally the opposite, which is, "I'm going to understand me."
I don't know if this is a thing, but "quarter-life crisis," is that a thing?
We've heard that before, yeah.
Is that like a known phrase?
Yeah. Well, I've heard it before.
But when I was 25, it was a real weird time for me. It was like my second album was kind of coming out-ish. Gosh, I'll never forget this: I was doing the Prince's Trust and I've been working with them for a long time, but there was one occasion I did it at the Royal Albert Hall and I was wearing a blue outfit and I remember Tom Hardy was also in the line to meet our now King. And I went into that bathroom and my hands were tingling and I was having the craziest panic attack. And that was the first time when I was—in when I was 25. And my tour manager, Rich, who's been with me for ages... I was like, "Rich, I need I need a couple minutes. I don't know if I can do this." Like, I couldn't. I thought my legs were going to give way, and I don't know what was going on. I've I've met our now King before; I mean, I don't know. I was performing that day as well. I just don't know what happened. I went into the bathroom and I was like *inhale, exhale*. And I mean, I felt sick; I didn't know what was going to go on. And then I got out and I stood in that line and I just went *shoo*. And I just met Prince/King Charles and I just was not there. It was—but you know, if you look at that photograph, you wouldn't even know. It was—and then I went out and I sang and I messed up the lyrics and completely got it wrong, but nobody really noticed. But that was when I was like in my when I was 25. And ever since then, I was just petrified of that feeling again and I learned through therapy that is—you get panics from not wanting to get a panic attack. And that's how you sort of drive your panic attacks. That's what happened to me. I was more in fear of feeling like that again that would put me into the realm of going down that spiral.
A lot of people don't—I've got friends, it some of the stories you've said remind me of some friends of mine, and a lot of them don't want to have the conversation with a therapist because they're scared of what it brings out and what it brings up. A lot of people say that.
Interesting.
And it's—and that's why I'm linking that to the moment where you wake up and it's quiet and you go, "I don't like the quiet," because—
Yeah, but I never really did. There was always music playing, even when I was a kid. My mom would always have the Bee Gees and ABBA and all—there was always noise in my house, and the windows were open and the dishes were clacking and clicking and, you know, that was—there was always life happening in my childhood.
And you turned that chapter around in your life, that 25-year-old party chapter?
Yeah, I haven't had as many of that feeling as I thought I was going to have. And now I know it. I mean, I also wasn't familiar with it, remember? I didn't have them growing up. And it just hit me, you know. The pressure of being famous and the pressure of meeting all these real sort of incredible people and me not feeling like I was good enough to be there, you know, it just built up on me.
What's your like relationship like with trust? Because I was thinking about that experience at 18 you were saying about like kind of trust yourself more.
Trust in work is very slim.
What about trust broadly? You said it comes in waves.
Trust broadly... I'm very, very trusting. I think more to a fault. You know, I also—I like to give people chances rather than give them no chances, which sometimes has kind of put me in a predicament. But again, I just see the best in people and I always have and I and I hope that people do that for other people. That's why I do that, you know. Now with things like, "Oh, you know, if you go do this with us, then you know we can maybe achieve this for you that you've always wanted to achieve in your work life," *that* is something I'm very questioning with. Like if if you come with us, well, I need to see the proof before I do that.
Like big promises.
Yeah, I think that's again maybe something to do with my experience in my work life, you know. It's just—I've been disappointed so many times and I've been left with nothing so many times that I I just don't ask anyone for anything anymore, basically.
But it's got you far! I mean, even even that trust seems to have got you to an incredible, incredible place even if it maybe of has hurt you along the way.
Yeah, well, because I've made incredible relationships. That's the one thing I'm very grateful for. Even if I've been disappointed and sometimes those bridges haven't seen the end, I've created incredible relationships with people that have seen my struggles and that have seen me work really hard and in a circumstance unfortunately not get to where it needs to be, but have seen, "You know what? Rita really did work hard on that." And years down the line, they would call me and be like, "I remember that and do you want to do this?" And so you just never know why things are happening to you.
But you planted seeds, essentially.
Yeah, I I really did and and I made really great friends—genuine friendships. And I never really knew what they did and some I did, but it didn't matter. It was just about connecting. Connecting is really important.
It was five years ago was the last time you released an album. What what goes into this music? This because music—music I I see it as like different chapters of your life. It's the same with like books and stuff; it's a chapter of of who you are often. What what are you pouring into your music these days? Like what experiences are you pouring into them?
So you know, I've been in the business now for over a decade. So I'm looking at timeless, I'm looking at pop icon, I'm looking at things that can stand the test of time because I'm a 360 entertainer and what does that look and feel and sound like? And so now I'm—I'm at that point in my life of like, how are we establishing this work ethic that I've done all these years to get to this point? And how are we going to become the new Rita Ora pop star in her 30s and enjoy the ride, you know, and really bring people along for the journey? And so that's what my album *You & I* is. It's like a rebirth of this incredible position that I'm in, of owning my masters, being in charge of my decisions with music, and having an incredible team that can see the future. It's about longevity. It's like, "Okay, well, this is another step to this point, and then hopefully when I'm like in my 50s and 60s, you'll look back and be like, 'She's still here,' you know." That's the goal, that's the aim and the journey of life. That's why I love about Kylie Minogue and Jennifer Lopez—like these these women stand the test of time in my opinion and they keep coming back and delivering, and that is something that I aspire.
It's not easy to do that.
No, but it's also—yeah, it's not easy, but they've done that by accepting failure. They've accepted failures at certain points in their careers and have kept going and kept driving and kept thriving and then they're still here.
What failure have you accepted?
You know, like certain things maybe not positioning chart-wise as well, or making decisions that may of not of been right, mistakes being made, or—
How are you as an individual with dealing with those moments, like honestly? Like when those things happen, how does—if I'm a flower on the wall...?
Regret is horrible. You know, I know a lot of people can relate to that. But it feels—you know, I I was—I feel broken. Like it makes me feel like everything I've done is about to disappear. Again, back to that fear of sort of losing everything. And um, you know, when the world is also looking at you, I don't know, you just break. You just break down. You just get so fearful and um... you know, all I was thinking about was like my mom and dad because they've worked so hard to get me to this point. And you know, it's not—again, it's not just about me, you know. On my boat that I'm keeping afloat, you know, I've got my whole family. And so, you know, you can't help but always blame yourself for everything. And the only way forward is to again, you just have to just keep going. But at the time, you know, you get dragged through hell.
It's a lot, Rita. It's a lot of responsibility. It feels like a weight that you've been carrying for a long, long time.
Yeah, because um—I've always just been myself. I've always just tried to be really genuine and I've never changed for like who I am. And that's probably why that—that's probably why I do make these sort of, you know—I don't always get it right. Like who does? Do you know what I mean? Um, but it makes—yeah, I'm I feel more human. How about that, you know. I'm just a human, you know, at the end of the day. So the media and all the fray—the craziness that comes with what I do, I have now learned to really sort of separate that like work life and real life. That doesn't feel like my real life anymore. My real life is having dinner at home and like hanging out with my husband and becoming a stepmom and trying to figure out how to cook for kids. You know, that's kind of like—like the real life is that for me now.
You've been taking care of your family for—since much younger than anyone should really be, you know, taking care of their family from what I read. Um, looking after them, paying for your parents' house and stuff like that.
Yeah.
When you talk about the fear of losing it all as well, is and you mentioned your your parents there, which was kind of surprising to me, but it brought me back to what I'd read about your early years of like feeling like you're almost carrying your family too to some degree, not just yourself, but there's a lot of people relying on you.
Yeah. I don't know if that's a immigrant mentality.
100%.
You know, it's because it's almost like—family's a big thing for me. Family is huge for us. So it's like when one goes, we're all going. Like that's just how I was raised. So maybe that is something to do with that, you know. Kind of all seeking refuge together is that sense of family. So yeah, I guess it was for me it was a no-brainer. Like it was what I was—I had to do. It wasn't even like I had a choice. In my mind it was like, "Well, that's obviously going to happen for my parents. I'm obviously going to get that for them." I didn't think there was any other thing to do.
"Broken" is a strong word.
Yeah, mm.
It's a really strong word. Do you mean that that word "broken"?
Yeah, kind of—yeah. I mean, there's nothing that anyone could say when you feel broken that is going to put you back together at that point when you're like at your lowest. The only way you can get out is if you start climbing. I don't—I wasn't hearing anything when I was broken.
When were you broken?
A couple times. I mean, there's some things that happen behind the scenes or there's obviously public things that you that everybody sees of when, you know, you get plastered on the covers of magazines and tabloids and things like that and you just feel super violated, you know. But it's something that comes with what you do. It comes with what I do. So it's like a bittersweet, you know. I'm I've never been a complacent person; I am not complaining about anything that comes with what I do. It's just something that you have to really work on dealing with because it's going to happen inevitably.
Nobody will ever see the consequences of it, though. Like if you just say the word "broken" to me, I'd think, "Really?" Like there's stuff that's taken you to that place?
Yeah, for sure. 100%. Multiple times.
But you remain strong. At least from external perceptions. Maybe that's maybe that's an incorrect thing because it you talked about masking.
No, I do. I am strong, I am. I think the fact that I'm still here means I'm strong. I mean, I run a business, you know. I've got people that I employ now, you know, and I feel like you can always come back. Never X anyone out because in my experience it's like you can really help people that you don't even know you're helping. So yeah, I mean, I'm strong because I'm very inspired again and I'm loving the idea of rebirthing and positioning and owning a business and, you know, running a label and being on TV and doing film and doing music. There's never a break, so it it's like we're always on the go, me and my team. Our bags are packed constantly. And so, you know, you have to be strong not for—if it's not for me, it's for them.
Rebirthing. Introducing the new Rita Ora.
Yes, that's exactly how I feel. It's like a new lease of life. We're on another chapter now. This is the new chapter of Rita musically. She's married! It's like I'm now a stepmom, you know, there's like so much that's going on in my life now that I it wasn't before, you know. It's cool.
How did that change you, marriage?
It didn't really feel any different, honestly. Taika and I were friends for so long before we got together. And he likes to say before we ruined it all... *laughs*... um, but it didn't feel any different because it was such a sort of natural progression to our already withstanding friendship that it was kind of like best friends getting married. Like that's what it felt like. And we are the same person. We think the same and our lives just really do blend even though they're both crazy. So I think what it's done for me, it's it's actually made me more excited about achieving things and having new goals that I want to achieve, and I think that we really push each other in that direction.
Because home is stable now.
Because home feels super stable, which is a great platform to achieve. And I I felt like it was a real big achievement for me. Yeah.
Why?
Because I just didn't think that was ever going to happen to me. Because I was never in one place. I was never—I never gave myself the time to or the energy to put into trying to find a soulmate or do that because I was always like, "You're either coming on my roller coaster or you're getting off because we're not stopping." And it was really difficult to find somebody that could really manage the pace that my life is in. And then, you know, I met somebody that also lived a life, you know, and has this ability to, you know, be a father and have this creative aspect, and that was really impressive to me. And I was and I was like, "Wow, you know, somebody can do it all."
Here's the thing, though. So if you had met him when you were 24...
No. Hell no.
There you go. So it's not really about the person; I think it's more about you, where you were at.
I was ready, exactly. And this is what my album's also about: it's not about hoping somebody's going to come and fix everything for you because it's not what I stand for, that's not what like I preach. But it is about, you know, you being in the right frame of mind. And I definitely was when I first met him in a, you know, in a different light in Australia, yeah.
§02Transcript — part 2
You were in the right frame of mind when you met him.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
I I'm so intrigued by how our early experiences shape our attachment styles romantically. Like for me, I was I had no chance of meeting anybody. I'm shocked that I have I'm in a relationship now because up until 25 I was like self-sabotaging any interest. What did you come to learn about your attachment styles romantically? Like what did you come to learn about Rita in a romantic relationship?
That it's not just about you. Yeah, and I think I can say that now. It's—thinking back, you know, because my job revolves around me and like what I do, I thought it was the same in relationships. But it's not, you know. You have to sort of—you have to be willing to be a bit selfless sometimes in relationships to be there for the other person. And I don't think I was. I was very much like, "You're doing what I'm doing, or that's it." And that's probably why they all didn't work out until now. But that was again the knowledge—like I never really... and I don't know why I thought that, because my parents have the most incredible marriage and relationship, like they support each other so well. But my life was moving so crazy that I just don't think that the other party were—parties, etc., were like ready, I guess. And I just wasn't—that wasn't my priority also, by the way.
Yeah, I hear that priority point in fact because for someone who's so scared of losing it...
Yeah.
It would make sense that they would deprioritize everything else that was a threat to it.
That's exactly where my head was at. 100%. It was like, it wasn't a big deal for me; it wasn't a priority. The way you describe like, "If you don't keep up with this train, you're fucking off it," right, but that's exactly—no, you know, it's not a good way of thinking, but because I had that fear behind me and driving me, that was—there was nothing that was going to get in the way of that. Until I got a bit older and I realized that there's other points in life that are important, Rita, you know. Like finding your sense of family and joy amongst the craziness and that's like my own. Obviously I had my parents and my sister, but you know, I wanted to sort of create my own thing.
Rita believes that now she is married, the press now report on her in a different way. Maybe they're having a crisis meeting at the moment. Why did you say that?
*laughs* Because now it's less about like, "Oh, Rita scene with *ta-da-da-da-da*," it's like I feel like now they don't know what to say. It's hilarious because I do believe that. I think now everybody's understood and seen this sort of transition and I think that I don't know what they—what goes on in those tabloid offices, but I do feel like there's been a shift in the narrative now because they've also exhausted and gone every single route on me that I feel like now they're like, "All right, let's just give it to her. She's calmed down a bit."
Did that ever bother you? Honestly. On a human level. I think this is important because people don't understand that the things written have a real human consequence further down the line on the individual, because because obviously if you then react publicly, that's a new story.
100%. I mean anything you do, it's like a story. You know, I just I've learned over the years that um—less is more, and if you would like to connect or kind of explain your side of things, you know, you do it through art. And so with me, what I've learned is I do it now with my music and so I tell my story through my songwriting and through videos or things like that.
And your husband, he's an Oscar-winning director. So you've worked on some of the music videos with him?
Yeah, it was amazing.
What’s that like working with your husband?
Amazing. You know, not me—I'm also a fan of his, you know. So it wasn't just like, "I'm working with him, let's just go for it," you know. I understand, you know, I'm being lucky to work with him. I mean, I know he's my husband, but I don't take it for granted, you know, like he's written some of my favorite films and *Jojo Rabbit* and things like that, you know. Those are real iconic stylistically important films of our time. For me to work with him was fun because I knew he was going to throw things at me, you know, like, "Do this!" and "Do that!" and like that's how he works. It's just like *br-br-br-br*. But there's a beauty to his madness and um I was really honored to be amongst that thing at that night. We did it actually all in a day and "Praising You," it felt like a mini movie. It was awesome.
Those—I think there's three records that I listened to upstairs. I'm pretty sure those are the three that are coming on the album *You & I*, the three singles you've released so far.
Yeah, yeah.
What did you listen to? All of them. Oh great. So all very different. Although they inspired significantly different feelings from me. "Praising You" felt very like I wanted to party. It felt like upbeat, like I'd listen to that in the gym. One of them made me feel a lot more romantically nostalgic, where you're talking about how someone only loves you in a certain situation.
Oh, "You Only Love Me." That's probably that one. What I've tried to do with this album is kind of take you on a thought journey. So it's like "Don't Think Twice" is about kind of knowing you like someone and jumping in, which is the opening track of my album, and not thinking and just sort of going with it and seeing where it ends up because you don't know. You always, you know, you think, "Ah, I can't do this, I'm scared," but you just don't know what's on the other side. And so then "You Only Love Me" is like that area where you start meeting someone and then you're kind of like, "Can I tell them I don't want to see other people? Or is it too soon? Am I going to be crazy if I tell them 'let's be exclusive'? Like when is it the right time? Do you only call me when like you've had a couple drinks and you've got that confidence boost? Do you actually like me?" It's like all those questions you ask yourself in the beginning, but really what you want to say is, "Let's be exclusive and I love you," but you don't want to look crazy. So that's that song. And then it goes through a journey of loving someone and appreciating your friends and self-love. It's not just about one person; it's about you and I. So it could be you and me, me and the fans, you and yourself. So there's a song on there called "Girl in the Mirror," which is about really accepting all of your faults and all of my faults, all the things I don't like about myself and parts of my body—you know, every everyone goes through those phases. And yeah, there's all of those kind of personal insights to this record that I think is different to all the other two albums I've put out.
And what are you hoping? What’s your hopes as you go into this? You're kind of much more seasoned than you were when you put out the other albums in terms of your experience of this process—the press run, the thing comes out, lots of people talk. What's the goal? What are you hoping?
Do you know what? I really just hope people feel like they know me. That's all I want. I want people to feel really close to me and connected to me and just feel like they know what they're getting. If they're coming to a Rita show, they know they know what they're going to get: great dance songs, pop bangers, we're going to have a party, we're also going to get a bit emotional. But I really want people to feel like they can rely and depend on me, especially in a sense of music of kind of really getting them away from their problems and their thoughts. That's all. I just really want to communicate and connect again and again, like I said, reintroduce myself and feel like I'm the girl that they've always known that lives next door to them.
Are you driven or are you dragged?
I think I'm driven.
Yeah?
Yeah, I'd like to say I'm driven. A lot of that actually, confidence, has come from me working out. Like waking up and going to the gym. I would never do that before, especially knowing I have a long day, you know. Now I wake up an hour before that just to work out. I think that's drive. Because it's also like you're already exhausted, you know. You go to sleep and you wake up and you know you have to do it and after you do it, you know, you feel good. There's never anyone that I have met that has worked out that has left being like, "Ah, I feel terrible."
That’s a non-negotiable.
Non-negotiable. It's like—that's I think that's why I feel like I'm driven.
What else is non-negotiable in your routine? You talked about meditation a little bit, but is there anything else that's your like ritualistic non-negotiables?
Finding a good book.
Interesting, you're a big reader.
I've I've learned to—I've joined a little secret book club under a false name. And I love it! And they teach me about books. Right now I'm meeting—I'm reading *Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow*. Have you read that book? No. It's fantastic. It's just so good; it's about these like two friends—it's like a description of a friendship that you think goes into a love love life fest, but it doesn't. It's all about this specific friendship and it's so interesting. And *Klara and the Sun*, which is another great book about this kid who has an AI robot and it sort of like becomes really human-like; it's really interesting. So yeah, that brings me a lot of kind of joy. And yeah, it's just kind of discovering. Like I love discovering things. I'm always looking for new music, new artists, films that I haven't seen. Like I'm really into sort of discovery and that really inspires me to kind of—inspires my creativity and I'm already thinking the next album and this one's out July 14th and I'm already thinking about the next one.
Your creativity comes from a lot of places, right? I can feel that in you.
People for sure. A lot to do with people. And like—I'm always interested in people's stories. I mean like you, you know, you're so good at asking people the right things, and I kind of really like that. I do that in genuine conversations I have at dinners and things like that. Um, because you just never really know what you're going to get out of it, you know. And so, yeah, I continue to do that. So if you want to come to dinner with me, get ready because—
I’m really busy that day but... I'm joking, I'm joking. Of course I would! July 14th, your album comes out. I'm very, very excited.
I'm so excited. I'm so happy we were able to do this and I'm really, really genuinely looking forward to what people are going to get from this album.
They're going to get a lot from this album because I can tell that this is—it feels like a—the music is incredibly fresh, I'd have to say that. It's diverse, incredibly diverse. There's sounds—I mean, I'm not a music expert, but just when I play music—I love music, so I spend I always beat my friends in terms of music consumption every year on that Spotify thing.
Oh yeah, the Wrapped thing.
Spotify Wrapped thing, so. But there's so many fresh sounds that I heard through your music, and to hear that five years is actually I think the distance between albums is also quite useful sometimes because it gives you a chance to have a bit of lived experience. And that comes through in your records.
Thank you.
And now a married woman... and you're in a new chapter.
Yeah, but all my albums have kind of taken that bit of time. I've never really back-to-back put out albums. Um, but musically I'd like to say this is my most artistic album, for sure.
We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest and they don't know who they're leaving it for. The question that's been left for you—uh oh... This is quite I think this is quite a good one for you. Okay. People always shit themselves when we get to this point, but I don't know why; I thought my questions were difficult but—question for you is: what would you most like to be remembered for when you die?
Wow. My work ethic and being a nice person. Those two. Being like, "Wow, she really did that," and being really sort of received and everyone saying she was just such a nice, jolly person.
It brought me to something that I was going to ask earlier, just that point which is it appears to me that when I sit here with—the fact that you said work ethic. When I sit here with male artists, they rarely they very rarely say that.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a whole another conversation. Yeah.
It’s a whole another conversation, but it's about the double standards around like—
Maybe it is that, you know, being a woman too. 100%. No, it's not maybe; it definitely is that, I think, as well. Especially with everything in—from my experience only, in the music industry, but I imagine it does definitely filter into any sort of aspect. You know, being heard, being spoken, being being heard on the table, you know. And also not being forgotten, that's another thing. It's like you don't—you may have done something at some point and then it could almost be the credits could go somewhere else. And so you have to almost be consistent, I think as a woman more than ever.
To get the credit you deserve.
Almost, I guess. Yeah. And opinionated and it's so much more shocking, I would say, if if a woman is more opinionated. I don't know why, but you know, I don't think in my world that that ain't going anywhere. But I feel really kind of like there's a responsibility for sure, especially for the young girls coming up. I want them to watch this and feel really kind of inspired by it.
I certainly think they will be. And from doing your research, it was really, really illuminating because I saw, especially that's why I asked the question about that from the choir to getting signed, I saw someone that was really tenacious and felt like they were being—they had a fire up their ass or something. Because when I read about the the the time you spent interning and working in the shoe shop and persuading yourself into certain meeting rooms and certain things like that—that's the narrative that I don't think a lot of people would would put out there because it's the reality that goes on behind the scenes. It's the boring stuff, but at the very essence of you, it's really why you're sat here now. It's that like that hustle that came from that refugee immigrant background that caused you to just to persevere in situations where most people probably wouldn't have persevered and to keep knocking on doors and to keep saying yes and showing up despite the cost.
And surviving, basically.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And the and the sacrifice you said it yourself, so. It's an incredible thing.
Oh, you know, thank you. And it means a lot. Um, you met so many people, so I really appreciate that. I do really understand the platform that this gives as well for people like myself that can just really tell their story. Um, so thank you so much for letting me share my story.
Thank you for being here. It's an honor to have you and you are um—you're exactly why we started this show, though, to tell those stories of really inspiring young people that are doing incredible, incredible things, so.
Well, you just let me know and I'll come back.
For sure, for sure. Let’s have a chat after the album comes out because I'm super excited for you, so. Um, and I'm sure it's going to be received incredibly well because the first three singles that I've heard so far are insane, so.
Thank you. Fingers crossed. Thank you so much.
See you soon, Rita. Take care.
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