Moment 170: The Scientific Method For Unstoppable Confidence: Professor Steve Peters

00:02So if I'm 30 odd, you know, and I've got low self-esteem, I'm, you know, I'm 33, got low self-esteem and I came to you, where would you begin with trying to help? And that low self-esteem was manifesting in abusive relationships, bad work relationships, very negative sort of feelings about myself and maybe even some impulsive behaviors. You know, I'm, I'm eating too much or I don't know, whatever. Where would you start with me? Okay. The first, I mean, just so people say, oh, wow, that's a strange start point.

00:34I'm a doctor, so the first is make sure you're actually okay. I'm okay. Because if someone were presenting with this, it could be in depression, and that can present in many ways. Typically, it's low mood and loss of pleasure and everything and loss of energy, but that doesn't have to be. So I mustn't miss that. So I would make sure your mind is not ill, but I don't need treatment. Now we assume that this is longstanding, and what you've done is what you're describing is a lot of maladaptive coping strategies.

01:01So I eat too much, which is probably comfort eating, or it's just habitual stuff that you're just not, you know, or it could be you've got so low self-esteem, I've seen this, you're almost punishing yourself. You know, I don't deserve to eat well, and I don't deserve to eat the right things, so I deserve to be overweight, or I deserve to look like this. So that could be the bottom of it. So I have to start, my starting point is exploration. but the key to this would be to move all that to one side if you're in a reasonable place where you can actually communicate if not i'll let you express it all it's important you get it off your chest if you've got it you say i don't need to do that what i do is what i've seen the book here in a path of jungle i explain the starting point is get a blank piece of paper and write down who you want to be what behaviors do you want to have let's define what you want not what you don't want not what you're experiencing, don't start with a treacle.

01:52I call that the treacle. Start with a blank piece of paper and then write down the person you want to be. I want to be really confident. I want to have a girlfriend or a boyfriend. I want to get married. I want to have kids. I want to work out every day. I want to eat really good food. Right. So what you're describing now is the human system. The great news is when I ask you about the characteristics you've got, so I want to be calm. I want to be happy.

02:18I want to be confident. that is you that is you how do you know it's me right because if we were we can't surgically remove interference neuroscientifically which we can see on functional MRI scanners if we remove the chimp and computer system then you're completely in control of yourself so you would choose to be calm you would choose to be confident so therefore that's you the human system can choose what happens is when you choose to be calm the chimp system interferes or the computer interferes and throws shows to the world someone who's not calm so it's very important to recognize who you are before we start so now we've got a guy you're not going to write no one ever writes anxious no one they say no what i want to be is calm collected a good friend have integrity that is you if if we didn't have interference in the machine so it's very crucial this is the biggest point in the book the biggest point is to define yourself because now you've got self-esteem can rise just on that alone once you've grasped that you say wow when i'm presenting to the world is interference it's not me if i didn't have this machine i would not have anxiety because that's a system that you say in the human

03:30system can't do anxiety it's not built to do that it's built to be rational and calm but what it wants to do and how it wants to present is a choice the chimp has no choice the computer has no choice The computer's programmed, but these are interfering and presenting to the world someone who's not you. So it's very important to grasp that concept. That's my starting point. Now we've grasped that, we build on that. So now I know who you are. I'll say this, sometimes when you're with a friend and you've been chatting a while, and maybe it's got late in the evening, and you've got a lot off your chest and you've discussed, you calm down.

04:09And sometimes the real you presents. and suddenly you feel at peace. People often say, I don't know, it's just I felt totally relaxed and thought I've got perspective, I gather the world the way it is, I accept what things are and I've calmed down. And then suddenly you see the real person and they've got morals and values and not every human has. Sometimes the chimp's the good guy. You know, sometimes the human's not nice. So I do get people who do not write, for example, who you are.

04:37They don't write compassion. They don't write integrity. they don't care and if I challenge say you didn't put compassion they say I don't not bother about that so I have to work out who you are okay so not everyone is going to write the same things that's why I know it's you we're not just a generic list because someone could just be virtue signaling because you're asking me to do it or because I want to be these people but really I'm a I'm a burglar I'm a bad guy you know I'm I want to hurt people yeah I'll tease that out how do you how that's my job because again then you look at evidence-based and you look at remorse you look at whether somebody compensates for mistakes you look there's a lot of things i want to see the history here okay and then i'll challenge that and challenge it so that's a series of talks so often we have a long time when we detain someone to explore this so we don't get fooled is this you talk referencing much of your psychiatric work here within psych hospitals yeah So somebody who's psychopathic, generally, everyone's a different version of what it is.

05:35For me, a neuroscientific, you know, there are certain tracks in the brain that are not really fully developed or don't function. And this produces someone without empathy, without remorse, without any conscience. These are classic. And so I don't know that. I'm not a mind reader. I can't tell until people talk. You know, so yes, they could deceive me. I have to just go on what they tell me. But I can listen carefully to the words they use. and listen to what they're saying, and look at their past life events, and it starts to unravel.

06:03So eventually you think, okay, I know what I'm dealing with now. But to be honest, people don't do that with me. What you tend to, because I would hopefully set a scene where I don't care what you write. I don't care what you want to do with your life. It's not for me. I'm not a judge. I'm here as a doctor to explore this with you and get insights for yourself. So the most people are not psychopathic. We're decent people who've just got lost in the way the neuroscience of our mind has tumbled us.

06:30So my starting point when you gave me all this was to say, let's write out the real you and let's start building ourself on that and recognising what is not us and let's start unpicking it. So let's just start saying, right, why would you have, and we went earlier about low self-esteem, let's look at why you have that. First, it's natural and unhealthy, that can help people. Sometimes just saying that, they go, that's amazing. I feel better for knowing it's natural and healthy, maybe rubbish and unhelpful, but at least I know it's healthy and there's not something wrong with me.

07:01Because the second you start saying, oh, I'm trying to please people and I can't say no, and you see that as being a weakness or a fault, we're in trouble again because you're muddling yourself up with a machine. So that's my starting point. Who are you? What's the machine doing? All of this, anything the chimp does, anything it does is natural. There's nothing you're going to give me, even if it murders someone. that's what chimps do they're violent so it it's still illegal and not acceptable but i'm saying everything's natural so that puts us on a different way of looking at it again to try and give context to that natural isn't always good um so overeating is natural but it's not good uh and even like the classic one i always use the parents and teenagers i always say if you've got said it this morning with someone if you've got a teenager who's got a tidy bedroom that's who i want to meet If they're a messy bedroom, great.

07:56That's normal, you know? So you're more concerned with teenagers that aren't being teenagers. So if you've got a teenager who never lies, then it's a bit worrying. Maybe they're good at deceit. Because teenagers are learning to lie and they're learning to defend themselves and it's a natural of doing it. It's not helpful and hopefully they'll grow out of it. But you've got to say what's natural and let's work with that to minimise risk or whatever we want to do.

08:22so there's a long-winded way of saying you know get you to be yourself get your machine let's see what the machine's doing and let's change the coping strategies but accept the machine is the machine