Zara Larsson: How To Stop Caring What Others Think!

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I'm going to be more famous than Elvis Presley, Whitney, and Beyoncé.

Jesus Christ. What are your ambitions, honestly?

World domination. [Laughter] Over 5 billion streams worldwide. An international pop star.

Have you always wanted to be famous?

Since I first understood what fame was. The hours on top of hours on top of hours that I spent performing in the mirror. I guess it does come back to some sort of wish for validation and just love.

I read this quote the other day. It was like, those that care about clapping also really care about the boos.

It's almost like a self-harming thing. Especially, I think I am looking for that negativity if I have a bad day. I think I also base a lot of my self-worth and self-esteem on how well I am performing. The fact that I want to prove to people I don't know... it’s a bit messed up, isn't it?

Yeah. Whose opinion could hurt you the most?

Ooh.

You've had some controversial tweets, right?

Yeah, I'm not even trying. I am that person. "Take me to jail, I'm going to be disrespectful every time." That 20-second video of my silly opinion became like national news for like a week.

Did you like that? [Laughter]

Zara, you're a unique individual in many ways. I study people before they sit down with me, and I couldn't quite figure you out, I've got to be honest. Sometimes I look through everything—where they're from, their upbringing—and with you, there's a couple of areas I haven't quite figured out yet. So that's what I'm going to try and do. Based on the person sat in front of me today, what do I need to know about your earliest years to understand this person?

Like how I was as a kid, basically?

Just give me all of it. The context, environment, the influences.

Always a showgirl. I've always loved to entertain my family and my friends, just being a small person. I always loved having people watch me. I think that's why I'm an artist today. It's just a part of who I've always been.

I loved to laugh. I was quite an un-serious kid, I would say. I don't know if I would love to have myself as a child. I didn't really listen. I was very stubborn. But I think quite funny to be around. I've always been quite confident.

Attention seeker?

Yes.

Seeking validation?

Yes.

You know when you say you were entertaining people? What did that do for you when you were younger? Who were you trying to entertain and what did that do for you?

I think even just myself. Or maybe I was thinking about myself in the future. I spent hours on top of hours performing in the mirror. As I was doing that, I guess I was imagining a crowd. I was looking at Beyoncé, Christina Aguilera, Whitney, and Celine. Those were my four girls growing up that I really wanted to be like.

I guess it comes back to a wish for validation and love. I just craved that a lot more than most people. Which is funny because I feel like my mom and my dad have always been giving me a lot of love and attention. They've supported me throughout everything.

In a psychological way of analyzing myself, there's no real reason for it. I guess some people just have a lot of energy. There need to be some entertainers in the world.

Why you?

I don't know. I just really enjoy it. I really like for people to feel good. I also think there's a fine line between being a people pleaser and entertaining others by being yourself.

I've never really been scared of conflict. I don't mind stating my opinion. I've always been very opinionated. I remember that my parents never filmed me and my sister growing up on video cameras. We have very little documentation of my childhood.

When my parents were moving to Rome, we found these boxes of videos. It was so fun to see how in front of our dinner table, the living room was just a stage. After every dinner, it was like, showtime. It's just a natural part of who I am.

It seems almost contradictory that someone like yourself could be so clearly confident, but also a people pleaser. One often thinks of people pleasers as having low confidence.

But we have two words in Swedish. I don't know if you guys have this, but it's like confidence versus self-esteem. You can have self-confidence; I'm very confident in what I do in my work. I know I'm talented. I know I'm good. I know I can perform professionally. But then maybe the self-esteem part... I don't know.

What do you think of yourself?

I think it goes up and down, like it does for most people. I have certain days where I feel like I'm on top of the world, nothing can stop me. And then other days where I just feel very small and fragile. In general, I think I also base a lot of my self-worth and self-esteem on how well I am performing in my professional life.

If I wasn't doing what I do as a singer, I would probably still be in some sort of public eye. Maybe acting, or maybe just having a podcast. [Laughter] Something to entertain people still, or connect with people.

I think you'd be a great co-host.

Co-host? Amazing. Yeah.

I don't think you'd settle for being a co-host, would you?

Yeah, I'm like, I want my own show. [Laughter]

When I was reading through everything about your earliest years, I was almost looking for some incident that had caused this desire for validation, and I just couldn't find it. Your parents seem lovely. Have you always wanted to be famous?

Yeah, since I first understood what fame was. I always said, "I'm going to be more famous than Elvis Presley."

Jesus Christ. That's a high expectation.

I know. And actually, now when I'm older, I don't think anybody wants to be as famous as Elvis Presley. I obviously haven't reached that point in my life, but I do think it is also a form of prison. You can't actually really go out and meet people and connect with people because they already have a version of who you are in their head.

How you manage just to go through life... I also hate being misunderstood. I hate when people have opinions about me that really aren't connecting with the person that I am, but they would never know that because they don't know me. I think the older I get, the more I realize there's also a lot of things that are happening when you're as famous as Elvis Presley that isn't very nice.

How are you misunderstood?

Just that it's not all glitter and glamour. It's not all like playing for a sold-out arena or stadium, then putting on a nice outfit and doing a red carpet. There's other things behind that that might not seem as fun. Like not being able to have a private life, or somebody always having opinions about your private life.

Especially in this time. Back in the day, at least there were no social media. In these times, I feel like we have this para-social relationship with followers where they feel like they would know who you are because they follow you on TikTok or Instagram. You would never hear Whitney Houston post a selfie.

But now because you kind of have to do that to connect with people and be like, "I'm human," that part wasn't a thing before. I think there is a really nice part in being relatable and connecting with your audience, but there's also something really sexy about the artists back in the days that were untouchable. That's why they were superstars. You couldn't get on their level. You couldn't hop on their live and be like, "I love you, your makeup looks great." You couldn't do that.

I feel like maybe Beyoncé could be the last generation that doesn't have to be on TikTok, for example. I don't know.

But I also love... sometimes I'm like, "I'm going to be mysterious." But it's not who I am. I'm not very mysterious. I am quite... I do like to show who I am. A part of me would love to be a YouTuber and just vlog. "Hey, come with me on a promo day." It creates a little, maybe strange relationship sometimes with your followers, but I feel like my followers are quite funny and that we have good banter.

That journey of understanding who you are and having the conviction to be yourself, how's that journey been? Especially in the industry you're in, there's a lot of temptation to be someone else.

I don't know. I think life is like a chain of events. You do get inspired or just influenced by a lot of stuff just living your life. You're going to be influenced by the people you meet and what you see. Just the lingo of people—sorry for speaking about TikTok so much—but just like how people are talking, the words they're using, then all of a sudden everybody starts speaking like that and wearing the same thing.

I don't feel like I've lost myself more or less than anyone else in my age who are just navigating through life. And then obviously, I am being judged, or people will have opinions about the stuff I'm releasing or my music. It's really hard to say. I feel like I've mostly been positively influenced most times by stuff.

You said how your self-esteem can sometimes be attached to your professional performance. That's a dangerous game to play. Because life is going to go up and down.

No, it's not a good thing. I felt like I really felt that when I was releasing my last album, *Poster Girl*. That's also why it took like four years between *So Good*, which was my first international album, to *Poster Girl*. I was so pressured into having the same amount of streams and the same amount of commercial success that *So Good* had.

I, in a way, forgot that I love music and I think it's so fun and I'm doing it because it brings me joy. I lost that a little bit in the process of making *Poster Girl* because I was just so scared of, not only myself, that I would do a better album than the one before, but what will other people think of me if I don't perform as well.

Now I'm back to making this album, which I feel like is a lot more fun. You've just got to remind yourself at all times that my worth, even as an artist, isn't based on numbers. Although, it kind of is. [Laughter] You know, it's like a tricky... of course I want to perform well. I want to be a smart artist. I want to sell. I want to stream. But yeah, my worth as a person is not necessarily tied to that. You've just got to differentiate the professional side and the private side.

Not easy.

No, it is hard when such a big part of my identity is being an artist, specifically singing, because I've been doing that for such a long time that it's just like in my DNA. Who am I if I'm not performing or singing?

Who are you if you're not performing or singing?

I don't know. Never tried it.

You're a vlogger. [Laughter]

In my mind, for sure. No, I think I'm really, really lucky. I have a really good family and I have really good friends. In general, I'm not a sad person. I'm very happy. I really like my life. But I've been doing this professionally, releasing music since I was 15. So that's like 10 years. I don't know what I would do or be if I didn't do music.

What age were you when you would have responded to the question, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" with the answer, "An artist"?

Maybe when I was like four or five. You wanted to be like an ice princess. But after that, it was just "I want to be a singer."

And I think it also went hand-in-hand with the fact that singing is so easy and it's almost like a primal thing. Singing is almost like a spiritual thing almost, specifically in a choir or together with people. Going to concerts or even sporting events and you sing these chants, it's something that's happening in you when you sing.

It's also really easy to appreciate someone singing. If a child has a really good voice and everyone's like, "Oh my God, you're amazing," and you get the attention from that from a really early age because you're just naturally good at it, then I guess you just keep going with that.

Is there such a thing as parents giving too much validation? That they're like, "You are a star, you're amazing." And then you go into the world and you're like, "What the fuck, why aren't you treating me like that?"

I mean, that's like watching some of the *Idol* or *X Factor* auditions. You're like, "Wow, you have been told by your parents that you're really good your whole life," and then they go on the show and they don't perform that great.

My mom and I joke about that sometimes, that when I grew up, she was just thinking, "Is she really good or is she just my child?" Like, is this good or do I just love you so much?

You said Elvis earlier on, but at your very core, when you're alone in the shower or whatever and you're thinking about your ambitions in life, what are your ambitions, honestly?

World domination. [Laughter] No, I want like a number one, I want like a number one album. You know what my main goal is?

Stadium tour.

Yep, you already know it. It really proves like people want to come and experience you live. If I could choose one thing about this whole thing as being an artist, it would be to perform live. For sure.

So when you say world domination, what is it you want? You want a stadium tour, a number one album in the US?

Everywhere. And then what? And then we take the helicopter and we fly out. [Laughter] I don't know.

Who do you want to be like? When you think about levels?

Beyoncé. But also, coming back to that, like what is it like to be Beyoncé? I don't think we even can imagine that life. I honestly don't know. Imagine being just on top of the world and being the celebrity of celebrities. Even people who are not specifically her fan would be on their best behavior if she walked into a room.

There's a beauty in like, maybe I'll never get there, but there's something about having a goal and a dream and working towards that. And then maybe in 10 years, I'll just change my mind and I'm like... vlogging.

People often find it difficult to express such grand ambitions because they're scared about what people will think of them. It's actually quite refreshing for me to hear someone go, "I want world domination." Because a lot of people don't have the courage to say that out loud.

Yeah, I guess it does. But you know, what's the worst thing that people would say? "That's never going to happen." Like, okay, we'll see. It's not that deep.

I think I'm a little entitled to success. And I think if I ever get a Grammy, I won't feel like, "Oh my God, I can't believe this is happening." It's more like, "Finally. Took long enough." That's what I think I would feel more than like, "I never in a million years could have dreamed..." No.

You believe at your core that the Grammy is basically one you deserve already, it's just a matter of time?

Yeah. I think it's just a matter of putting in the work. Because what you really need is grit. Just grit. Not grits. [Laughter] Just grit. You just need to work for it.

I read this book about grit. They were studying a lot of the students who went to the military school here in the US. The students who graduated, they're not like the strongest or the smartest per se; they're just the people who never give up. And that's it.

I think it's interesting to think about success, that you're only successful if you do something for the rest of your life. Like let's say in 10 years, I do change my mind and I genuinely want to do something else. Then it would look like, "Oh, but she failed at being an artist." When in reality, that job or interest could have served its purpose for that chapter of your life. It's not less successful because of it. It just means that you have another purpose now.

Do you consider yourself to be successful as an artist now? If the question was "I am a successful artist," yes or no?

Yeah. Because I'm doing what I love every day and I live off of it. It's like being in the NBA of artists. A lot of people want to be artists and they work really, really hard for it and they still have to have like a little side hustle to be able to pay rent. So in that sense, I feel like I am successful. There's just obviously levels to it. I don't feel like I've made it. But I'm doing what I love. And that's a success.

What would it take for you to feel like you've made it?

Maybe I'll never feel like I've made it. It's a blessing and a curse. When I do my stadium tour, then I'll feel like I've made it.

If you were to go back 10 years to that 15-year-old girl that released that single "Uncover," and you could just whisper in her ear some advice about life, success, and anything she might have needed to hear, what would you whisper?

"Leave him." [Laughter] "He's not very... he sucks. Don't spend your years on him." And then I would say, "Just don't overthink stuff. It's going to be great." Because in the very beginning when I started to release music, that's what I did. We just threw shit at the wall and then some was sticking on there and others didn't.

The songs that don't go well, nobody remembers them. But the songs that do really well, people remember them. It was easier because on the scale that I was on as a 15-year-old, everything felt more local and easier. Just release some music and have fun. It's not that deep.

And what about in terms of happiness generally?

Just keep doing you. Keep pissing people off. For some reason, I used to have a blog actually, and whatever I wrote, it would always be national news. Like I just said the other day like we should talk more in the cinema. What do you think about that?

I don't think that's the place for that. You can't watch something...

But you can whisper! In my video, I was like, "I think like we should react more and chit-chat."

But then you can't hear what's going on in the movie.

But you're watching the same thing! You're in this room together socially. It's funny that we have this conversation because on the internet, it's like a one-way street. So I can say one thing and then people are ripping out their hair. That 20-second video of my silly opinion became national news for a week straight in Sweden. Politicians were talking about it.

Did you like that?

A little bit, yes. But also part of me is like, "Why is this news? Stream my song instead." Ever since I was like 15, for some reason everything I said became like a national debate. Why do you care so much about what I think? I'm just a girl. But keep caring.

It helped me reach success because some people just knew me as being a very opinionated person more than an artist. Which is kind of nice in a way. I think it's like a talent in itself. And also, still entertaining the people.

You've had some controversial tweets, right?

Yeah, I'm not even trying.

I saw a couple of tweets you did. I wasn't sure if you liked men. [Laughter] There was one about you being a man-hater.

Yeah, I think at least it gets people talking. And also, maybe I am a bit dramatic online. Me saying like "I fucking hate men," when you compare that to someone saying "Women deserve equal pay," then that doesn't look as bad next to my tweet about hating men.

In a way, I feel like the extremist of certain topics leaning that way is also doing just as good for whatever movement. And I think also today it isn't that controversial because I think we all know what I meant by that with toxic masculinity and the patriarchy in general.

What do you struggle with? Like what are your challenges in life?

Getting out of bed. [Laughter] I'm a snoozer.

Let's be serious. I just have a very bad memory. So whenever I would have a fight with somebody, I just need to leave the room and I kind of forgot about it.

When was the last time you cried?

I cried maybe a week ago. I cry every day, but just like a soft cry. You see something... I was listening to "Goodbye My Lover" by James Blunt, and I was imagining my boyfriend dying.

How did he die in this imagination?

Maybe cancer or something. Like a car crash. Like something maybe sudden. And that made me cry really, really badly. I also was three edibles in. [Laughter] But I was on the airplane and I heard that you cry easier on airplanes.

If I cry a real cry, it would probably be about imagining someone in my close circle... I call my mom periodically depending on where I am in my head space, but I can call her like three times a week and just cry about the fact that she will die one day.

You have an interesting relationship with the concept of death.

Do I? I don't know if I'm scared of dying myself, but I'm very, very scared of the day where somebody that I love dies. I've never experienced that. I have experienced my grandma who passed away not too long ago, but weirdly enough, I felt like it was going to happen. I kind of knew it. When we spoke on the phone for the last time, I just knew like this is the last time I'm speaking to her. She was 90, she lived a long life. But someone... yeah, I think that's my biggest nightmare for that to happen.

When you're getting so much public feedback and you are someone that cares about validation... I read this quote the other day. It was like, those that care about clapping also really care about the boos.

Yeah, I wish I didn't, but it's the truth. If you open the door to caring what the external world thinks, you're opening it up to both criticism and approval.

Sometimes I do wake up in the morning and I'm just like, "Oh my God, what are people saying about me?" And I'm like, I have to check my mentions on Twitter. It comes and goes. I care, of course, if you want to read and hear the good things, even if you don't want to read the bad things, you see them as well.

It's almost like a self-harming thing. Especially I think I am looking for that negativity if I have a bad day. Just for my insecurities to be confirmed. Like, "See, I told you you suck." And then you want to read a hundred more good ones to be like, "No, I think I'm good, I think I'm a good person and I think I'm talented." Then once you've read those hundred comments, then you're back to like, "Right, but where's the bad one? Because this can't be real." And it's just a vicious cycle.

It's really toxic. I think I do that a lot more when I feel low. If I feel good about myself, then I don't really care because I know I'm good. But then when you're having a bad day, that's when you get sucked into that toxicity.

I think as I've got older, I've just put things in place to just keep myself out of the way.

What you want is to get to a point where it's like "I don't look at my comments or my mentions because I truly don't care."

That's where I'm at. I look at comments on YouTube. I don't go near TikTok. I don't go near Twitter; my Twitter mentions are all off.

Have you ever typed in your name?

I don't do that anymore. I don't Google my name. None of that. But it's like they say, you can take criticism or whatever from people in the arena. But people who are watching you on the stands, they're not even in the playing field. So why would your opinion about something that you have no experience with or knowledge in really matter?

Whose opinion could hurt you the most?

For some reason, it's like the strangers' validation that I want to get. Because I know in my life, I know my friends like me and I know my family like me and I know my boyfriend likes me. So the fact that I want to prove to people I don't know that like... it’s a bit fucked up, isn't it?

I truly have the belief that if I would be put in a room with anybody—I'm talking whatever age, political background, cultural background—I know that we would find some common ground. I think all people could. But that's really hard to do online. But I know it's there. I really do believe so.

When you turned 18, you talk about how things kind of changed in terms of the way that particular male figures treated you.

Yeah, I think specifically one person. You've always heard those stories and then you experience it and it's just like, wow, this is real life.

Experience what?

You know, just like advances or comments and invitations where it's also really strange that being 18 is not really being grown in a way. And it's really creepy that it took for me to turn 18 for them to just switch up like this.

Because what you really wanted was just for me to be legally available. You know, like what you're saying is that if it would have been 16 or 17, you would have done the same thing basically. So just like that turn of, "Oh, hold up now." That's very creepy and very weird. And sometimes I wonder, are you even interested in like a sexual thing or are you just doing a weird power play on me right now?

This happened to me even though I have an amazing team and I have really, really good people around me. I could only imagine what people who doesn't have that, what they would feel like. It's always a power play, I would say. Firstly because the people who are making the advances are like 30 years older. And then they're mostly in a power position. They have a solid position in the industry, or they have a title.

Also because the big positions are being held by men, they are probably the ones who are making those advances. I don't think it happens as much for young boys with women because there isn't that many women in those seats.

At 18 did you know what that was?

Yeah.

Because when someone makes an advance, they can do it in a very clear way or they can do it subtly.

No, I think they also want to make sure you know. [Laughter] It's showbiz, baby. No, but honestly, it is very strange. And I think because this is, you know, pre-Me Too and all of that, and I think a lot of people are a bit more careful with how they're acting and what they're saying. And they're simply not in those positions anymore because a lot of people got fired.

Have things changed?

I think so. I also surround myself with a lot of women. I think I just kind of recently started to go to the studio without having somebody there with me. They weren't in the room with me so to say, but they were sitting in like the green room area. I had like my manager or I had a day-to-day with me who would always be close and near.

But now I feel like I know, I've done the speed dating enough in like the studios to know who I like to work with, who I trust, who I feel good around. But for a very long time, I used to have either that or my mom would always be there. So I felt like I was still protected and still those things can happen. So I could only imagine what it feels like for young girls who are just starting out. It's so easy to be taken advantage of.

There's going to be a lot of young kids looking up to you, watching this now, listening to you. What do they need to know about how to become a star, how to become a successful person in whatever field they're pursuing?

Just got to do what you love and love what you do. I truly think so. If you choose something that you love to do and that feels good for you and you do it for yourself, then work doesn't feel like work.

I know I work hard, but me and my manager, we always joke about this. When I go... a lot of full day of promo today and it's been like, you go back and forth to places. And then when I lay in bed tonight, I'll say to myself, "Crazy, I didn't do anything today." And that's what it feels like. It doesn't feel like work.

And then just to have grit. Like we talked about. Just keep going. There's no stopping. And when you do something... like I've had songs that I loved that I released. One of my favorite songs is "Love Me Land" and I remember thinking like, "Banger. Number one everywhere." No, flop.

But I fucking love it. I think it's one of my best songs. I love the video, I love everything about it. When you release that, something you're proud of, you can't lose. No matter what other people are saying about it, it's like, this is good. The only time you would lose is when you release stuff or do stuff that you don't really want to do, that you don't feel 100% comfortable with. Then it flops. Like, that's a loss. But it's not even a loss if you release something that you don't even like and it becomes a success. Then it's like a win. But you never know if that's going to happen. Just do stuff that you love.

I read this quote and it said that Zara sometimes questions whether she really wants to be a performer or just because she's been telling herself that she wanted to do it since she was a kid. That seems to sit in contradiction to the person I feel like I've met today.

Well, I think I just don't know anything different. So sometimes it's like, what if I would have even more fun editing movies, vlogging? What if... I guess we'll never know. I don't know. Or maybe we will in 10 years. But it's almost a part of my DNA at this point.

But then, you know, I go on stage and I just feel so happy. It really does bring me joy. What is that girl called when she's like picking up an item of clothing and she's like, "Does this spark joy?"

Marie Kondo.

Marie Kondo! So every item in your life is supposed to bring you joy. And everything you do is supposed to spark joy. So that's how I feel with my music. Does this spark joy? Yes, it does.

You've got an album coming out, haven't you? Tell me about this new album.

It's super fun. I feel like it's a lot more dynamic than *Poster Girl*. It has some ups and it has some downs. It was really fun making it. I feel like we did it over a period of time with like a small bubble, like a group of people that just became... you just get to know each other really well. And then from that, instead of having to do these speed dating like sessions, you build something over a longer period of time. You get to like try out different things and see what works and what doesn't.

How do you know, like where do you get the conviction from to pick those songs?

I do trust the people I have around me, and I really trust my instincts. I think I have a good ear. I really do think sometimes when you listen to a song, it's like why you add a song to your playlist. You hear a song, you're like, "Wow, that's really good." Add. It doesn't have to be harder than that.

I read about "Uncover," that was a good example of you following your own creative conviction, right?

Totally. And that happened to a lot of songs. Like nobody wanted to really release "Lush Life." In America they were like, "Buh, buh." Which happens to be one of my biggest songs today. "Never Forget You" wasn't that exciting. They didn't really like that one. And like also other songs... I remember being a little unsure of "Symphony." I was like, "I don't know will that pop off?" And that also became one of my biggest songs.

But when I really like something, I really like it. And I think you just got to believe in yourself and in your taste. Because if I would just do stuff that I didn't really like, then might as well have somebody else do it. I still want to do what I think is good. I want it to be me.

But then you're also battling with, coming back to Beyoncé and like, you know, if you want to live this life in fame and the limelight, why are you doing it? Are you doing it for fame or are you doing it because of the art?

Why are you doing it?

I think a little bit of both. Because you can always have the art, but the fame is not necessarily guaranteed, is it? So I think yeah, if you're happy with what you release and you're like really proud of that, that's really what matters at the end of the day.

Do you know what? I think you're the first person that I've ever had on this podcast that's would honestly say and openly say "I'm doing it for fame." Really?

I think both. But I think everyone... the truth is they are. Of course. Unless they're a liar. You wouldn't be on a promo run, you know what I mean, if you really didn't care.

Yeah, I think it's necessary. I think that's why I'm like a happy person. I am very honest and I think I analyze and I think a lot about like my thoughts and myself and why I do certain things. And if you're just like honest with yourself about things, then you're living in your truth. And I think that is the ultimate way of living. At least I know that.

Your newest single "Can't Tame Her," I've been listening to that in my little office over there, spinning it over and over again just to get a feel. How's it going?

So far so good! Yeah, I feel like it's really fun to start off the new year with music in general. But that one is really like, "Woo," you know? It's like a little 80s banger and quite different from the rest of the album. It takes you on a ride, on a journey. But "Can't Tame Her" is fun, it's energetic, it's very... makes me feel confident.

When you went into the studio this time around, what was the objective?

I just wanted it to be really good. Honestly. Because if you look at my Spotify list, it's like a lot of stuff going on in there.

What's the metric of measurement that will tell you that it's been really good?

I would say a single or a song is a hit above like 400 million streams. Maybe two years. I think anything over maybe 2 billion streams is good. Yeah, that's really good. Sounds really good. 2 billion streams is great.

We sit here in 10 years' time and you've been successful. I kind of know what the answer is: stadium tour. On the other foot, we sit here in 10 years' time and you've been unsuccessful in your own characterization of what success is. What does that mean it would look like then?

Well, you know, I think it's just how you value success. Because success could also just be like being happy. And it could be like having a family.

What is it for you?

Well, I think it'll change over the years. Right now, it is to do really well in music and to just make sure everyone around me is happy and that I'm happy. But in 10 years, obviously stadium tour. Maybe I would love to make a couple of movies. I'll celebrate like 20 years as an artist. There's something a little lame to celebrate 10 years as an artist, having a 10 years as an artist concert... I don't know.

Is that because you're getting older?

Maybe. Maybe actually. I think I'm a little scared. But in general to age, I think it's a beautiful thing. And I actually think being like 30 plus, 40, for some reason I'll think I'll be my happiest at like 40 or 50. To just really be in tune with myself. Know where I'm going in life. Know where I've been. I'll read no comments at 40. [Laughter]

We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest, not knowing who they're leaving it for. This person has particularly bad handwriting.

That could be me.

"What's the one thing that gives you the most healthy pleasure in life, and how can you commit to doing more of it?"

Laughing. Laughing, laughing, laughing. That gives you the most pleasure. I think laughter... it's an old saying, isn't it, the best medicine. I think laughing, laughing, laughing. You can do it with everybody. And then you can masturbate a lot, you know? Laughing and masturbating.

At the same time? Something weird about that. [Laughter]

Zara, thank you so much. A pleasure to meet you. I can't wait to hear your new music. When is it going to be out?

This year! Soon.

Okay. I can't wait. A pleasure to meet you, Zara.

Good to meet you. Thank you for having me in your lovely home.

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