Marriage, Mental Health, Masturbation
Full transcript · Read the full conversation in order, with its original context.
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§01Transcript — part 1§01Transcript — part 1
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Damn, it’s been a while. I’ve not posted a podcast in the last few weeks because I’ve moved from the UK to the US. I guess this is a bit of an excuse, but I’m trying to explain my headspace. I’ve been hyper-focused on the new office, my new home, the business, and everything else in between.
I’ve had this immense tunnel vision. However, I’ve still been scribbling in my diary since the second I left the UK, and the first point in my diary this week actually comes from the plane journey from the UK to the US.
Today’s podcast marks the return of the *Diary of a CEO* and the start of the United States chapter of this diary, but also of my life. For anyone tuning in for the first time that doesn’t really know what they’re listening to, I’m 25 years old. I’m the CEO of a global marketing media and commerce business that employs hundreds and hundreds of people across the world in five different offices.
The business started in my bedroom as a broke student dropout. I’ve just moved to the United States to help grow the business here in this new, massive, challenging market. This podcast is a collection of thoughts that most CEOs wouldn’t share.
This podcast is my way of offloading random deep, dark, and different thoughts. In doing so, and being so honest in a world of fakery, not only does this feel like therapy to me, but I guess the chance of you resonating with something I say is drastically increased.
I usually record these podcasts at 3:00 AM from a cupboard under the stairs in my apartment in the UK, but today the environment is slightly different. I’m in a suite in Hollywood near the Hollywood Hills. I’m out here on business for a week and it’s 2:00 AM in the morning. Anyway, without further ado, I can’t wait to get back into this. I’m Steven Bartlett. This is *The Diary of a CEO*. I hope nobody is listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself.
Okay, so the first point in my diary this week occurred on the flight from Manchester to New York. Let me set the scene. I walk on the plane, I go into the business class section, I stow my bags, and I sit down. The flight attendant comes over and offers me a glass of champagne. I say yes.
I get the menu and I quickly pull out my laptop to try and get some work done before the flight takes off. I know I’ve got about 20 minutes. As I’m doing this, I’m distracted by this sound and this energy over to my left. I look over, and there’s this middle-aged couple with the biggest smile on their faces that you have ever seen in your life.
Even recounting in my head how excited they were almost gives me goosebumps because it was quite unusual. I couldn’t figure out why they were so euphoric. I sat down and I just started to listen to their conversation. As the flight takes off and we go in the air, I realize that this is the first time they’ve ever flown business class.
But it’s also the first time they’ve ever been to New York. They are just so happy and so excited. I’m so happy for them; it literally put a smile on my face. However, the more I started to reflect on it, I thought, I’m also a little bit jealous.
The first time I flew to New York, I was excited. The first time I was able to fly business class, I felt pretty euphoric, to be completely honest. But for some reason, because I go to New York every month and I fly business class every month, I am now numb to the excitement and the feelings of euphoria that this couple to my left had.
I started to read a little bit more about it. One of my favorite books actually answers the question. I pulled up Google and I just wanted to study once again why this happens in humans. It’s this whole idea of "hedonistic adaptation," which I’ve spoken about once before on this podcast.
The couple on my left had the same euphoric excitement that 18-year-old Steven Bartlett would have had. But because these experiences have become the normal to me, I don’t feel the same way about them. I think that’s quite sad. When good things happen, we feel these raw positive emotions like excitement, relief, pride, and happiness.
The problem is, happiness just doesn’t last. The excitement of that first car purchase wears off. The thrill of the promotion gives way to the anxiety of handling the responsibilities that come with it. I want to know—and I guess this is what I was trying to figure out—how do I stop that pleasure, those feelings of happiness, from dwindling?
I started to do a little bit of reading. There’s this thing called the "satisfaction treadmill." It means that when we experience a new level of happiness or accomplishment, we continually shift our standard upward once we’ve reached it. We are constantly, therefore, running after this new, higher standard, which is harder and harder to attain.
There are basically two ways to stop yourself from the satisfaction treadmill. Way number one is variety. As we all know, variety is the spice of life, as they say. But it’s also an incredible weapon against adaptation because we don’t get used to positive events when our experiences feel fresh and unexpected.
When a positive experience is repetitive, when you know exactly what to expect, you don’t get the same kick out of it. So one of the things that I am going to do to increase the variety and the unexpected element of the good things in my life is, when it comes to booking my flights from now on, I’m going to book economy on all of my flights.
I’m going to try and upgrade at the counter. That’s what I usually figure out a way of doing anyway. But this means that only 50% of my flights will be business class. They’ll be incredibly cheap as well, but only 50% of them will be business class, and I don’t know when until I get there.
I think that will be one of the things that will help me appreciate and savor the moment more. The next tool to employ in your life to make sure you don’t fall victim to this satisfaction treadmill is appreciation. Appreciation, in many ways, is the exact opposite of adaptation.
Appreciation is an active effort. It’s going out of your way to focus on something rather than taking it for granted or letting it fade into the background. This appreciation leads to a sense of gratitude—a sense of being fortunate for being in your current circumstances compared to others, or compared to where you were in the past.
When we appreciate our positive experiences, when we turn our mind’s eye toward ourselves, we don’t just make our happiness last longer; we kick it up a notch as well. We become happier. Human beings spend so much time trying to figure out how to make themselves happy, but not nearly enough time trying to figure out how to make the happiness they already have last.
The key to wealth, like the key to happiness, isn’t just looking for new opportunities or new standards; it’s also making the most of the ones we’ve already been given. That’s how I’ll learn to be in a permanent state like the happy woman sat next to me on the plane.
Okay, the next point in my diary is about relationships. I’ve had a bit of an epiphany. Again, this may just be an excuse, but I think it makes a lot of sense to me about why I’m very, very, very, almost impossible to date. And that is because I don’t want to be your priority.
Let me explain. There’s this popular notion that when you’re with somebody, you want to be, and want to feel like, their number one priority. But the more I’ve thought about that, the more wrong that feels for me. If you’re going to be in a relationship with me, I want to be your second priority.
I want your first priority to be you. Your ambitions, your life, your future—you. Because my first priority as an independent person is going to be me. And if you’re dependent on an independent person, you’ll challenge their sense of independence, which only creates friction, arguments, and conflict.
It’s important to remember that needing a person too much doesn’t come from love; it comes from fear and insecurity. Being unhealthily codependent causes you to completely sacrifice your own sense of identity and your self-worth. You can become reliant on a relationship, which is literally the single most unattractive thing.
Not only in the past have I felt that partners I’ve had, because they were more dependent on me than I was on them, have challenged my sense of independence, but I’ve also found them less attractive because they’ve got more needy. So it’s imperative that you build your own life.
If you want to be happy with someone, you have to be happy alone. You can’t be happy together if you’re not happy alone. You have to build your own life, your own social circle. Although it sounds ugly, for the sake of your own happiness, sometimes you have to be selfish.
I think this is part of the reason—not the full reason, but part of the reason—why I’ve struggled so much in relationships. I’m horribly independent. So anybody that becomes dependent on me mentally challenges my sense of independence. Listen, I stopped going to school to do my own thing when I was 16 years old.
I dropped out of university to do my own thing when I was 18. I’m somebody that’s obsessed with personal freedom and independence. And so I believe part of the reason why I’ve had business and entrepreneurial success is also part of the reason I’ve failed in romantic relationships. Conclusion being: maybe I need to find a date who is an entrepreneur? Someone as busy as I am, someone as independent. Maybe I’m wrong.
Okay, point three in my diary. I’ve just written: "You can’t think things into existence." Usually, when I write these diary notes, I write a couple of sub-notes underneath it just to prompt me. But this is a point that I’m so passionate about that I don’t really need any other notes. I’m just going to rant for a second.
There’s this huge global idea that if you think about stuff, it happens. A couple of—I’d say about three weeks ago—I got in an argument with a girl because I tried to tell her that you can’t just think about things and then they happen.
She genuinely came back at me and said, "Steve, it’s happened in my life. I thought about this thing, then it happened, so I know it’s true." That’s hindsight bias, okay? That is hindsight bias. Think about all the things you thought about that didn’t happen. You can’t, because they didn’t happen, so they’re unimportant to you.
You only, in hindsight, focus on the connected dots, let’s say. Here’s the thing: visualization is 100% important to me. I visualize everything that I think I’ve become. When I was 16 years old, I had this image in my head of running a business in New York City looking out on the skyscrapers.
I’m now 25 years old. Our office is in the heart of Manhattan looking out onto the Empire State Building, and I’m running the business. Of course visualization matters, but visualization just sets the direction. Execution and hard work take you in it.
There’s this book called *The Secret* which a lot of people have read, which talks about this idea of visualization. The net impact of that book is that people think if you just think stuff and you wake up in the morning and you say affirmations, things happen. That is bullshit. That is bullshit. Nothing happens from thinking.
Visualization sets the direction; execution takes you in it. Visualization is worth nothing if you don’t work your ass off. So my whole life is a process of thinking about who and what I want to become, and then waking up in the morning the next day and giving all of my energy, all of my hard work, all of my smarts, my blood, my sweat, and my tears to making that happen.
Then I look back and I say to myself, "Steve, that’s exactly what you visualized, and then you did the work and you achieved it." So please don’t rely on visualization to take you there. Visualization won’t move you anywhere. Visualization alone will waste your fucking time. I’m sorry to swear; this is something that I’m very passionate about. It really annoys me.
Execution, hard work, and visualization are a killer combination. That’s the combination that you need to create within your own life and that’s the combination that I try and create every single day. One of the things I’m visualizing at the moment—and I’ll just share this with you as an exclusive—is a book that I’m going to write.
I’ve got the concept in my head, I know the synopsis of the book, I know exactly where this book fits in the world and what it will do for everybody’s life and my own life. Just by thinking about this book idea I’ve had for so long, I’ve actually changed much of my life and I can’t wait to write it.
But just thinking about it isn't going to do diddly-squat. So, with the help of my amazing team, I’ve got three to five meetings with some of the world’s biggest publishers when I’m back, and I will work my ass off to make this book happen. This will be something that I visualized and then I executed into existence.
Okay, point number four in my diary is super, super simple. I’ve just written: "Sustainable lifestyle is key." One of the things that I think me and many other entrepreneurs are guilty of is creating this idea that you should just hustle your life away.
Hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle, work hard for this achievement or goal or monetary status or whatever it is—building a company, whatever it is—and then you die. That, honestly, the older and older I’ve got, I’ve realized how illogical that way of thinking is. You shouldn’t hustle your life away.
The real success is building a sustainable lifestyle. And that’s something that I’ve really not fully been able to do yet. I will be hustling forever, right? I’m going to be building businesses and creating things forever. So if I don’t create a sustainable lifestyle now, I’m going to hustle till I die, and then what was the point? I didn’t get to fully live.
How do I create a sustainable lifestyle? This means friends. It means romantic partners. It means health of body and mind. It means charitable giving now. It means spending time with my family now. The real success isn’t building a great business and hustling your life away.
The real success, as I’ve come to learn, and as my friends who are entrepreneurs—and one of my best friends is also an entrepreneur and runs a business—has come to learn very recently, is building a sustainable lifestyle.
This kind of goes against the general stereotypical entrepreneurial message of just work, work, work, work, work. But I’m cool to admit that that’s not the right answer. I’ve just observed in my personal circle as my entrepreneurial friends have got older, they’ve realized that too.
Point five in my diary is: "Living at zero." I’ve spent my whole life living at zero. It was only this sort of realization of this that’s kind of answered the question as to how I’ve been so happy and, I guess, in some respects, successful at what I’ve done in my life. Because I genuinely believe, at the very core of me, that I am nothing.
I have nothing, I am nothing, and I am insignificant. At the same time, which is almost kind of contradictory to that, I genuinely believe I’m really good and I can do anything I want to do and that I can achieve anything.
So it’s this weird balance of really not thinking I’m special, but also thinking that I can achieve anything, which I guess is contradictory. This is part of the reason that I get so numb when people say things to me like, "You must be so proud of yourself."
Because this idea of pride, I think I’m scared will make me complacent or make me feel that I’ve got something to lose. As human beings, we get insecure, combative, and resentful when we believe something is at risk of being taken from us—whether it’s our possessions, our pride, our ego, or our image.
But you can’t take anything from someone that doesn’t think they have anything to lose. Thus, it’s healthier to live at zero. I have and am nothing but my loved ones and the memories I’ve created with them, and nobody can take that from me.
And this idea that I’m at zero, and that I live at zero, and that I’ve not really got anything to lose, has also allowed me to take what you would call risks. But I don’t see them as risks because, as I’ve always said to anyone that’s ever asked me, I’m not scared of going back to the bottom. I was cool at the bottom.
When I had nothing and I was living in Moss Side, I was fine. Life was different; there weren't any business class flights or anything like that—a lot of Megabuses—but I was happy, I was fine. And the belief that you’ve got something to lose, as Steve Jobs said, is the one thing that will hold you back from ever becoming the most fulfilled, successful version of yourself.
Not caring about possessions and not thinking I have something to lose has made me successful. And I really, really—if there’s one thing I could give you from this podcast today—it’s really that idea that you are nothing. You have nothing to lose. You aren’t special, you’re not significant. And for me, that’s incredibly liberating because I’m not insecure.
You don’t want it; you would just rather have it. I’ve clearly not really wanted an amazing six-pack summer body because I’ve not really taken the actions of someone that wants it. I would just rather have it. I don’t want it as much as I want to sit on my laptop or as much as I want to watch documentaries or eat unhealthy food.
I would just rather have it if I could without doing the work. And that is the relationship that most people have with their goals, especially your secondary and third goals. When I say secondary and third goals, I mean outside of your sort of main focus—your career and those types of things. Your secondary and third goals tend to be like your health and your fitness and these kinds of things.
They don’t really want those; they would just rather have them. When you want something, the fear, the effort—nothing will stop you from trying. When you would rather have it, nearly anything can stop you from trying. It is so easy in a hectic, fast-paced, busy world to get disconnected from your goals.
We all do it; I do it as well. Zig Ziglar said that people often say that motivation doesn’t last. Well, neither does bathing—that’s why we recommend it daily. And the same applies for reconnecting to some of your secondary and third goals and the "why" associated with them.
What I’ve started to do—and something that’s had a huge impact on my life—is for these secondary and third goals, I will actively write down, research, and think about *why* I need those goals to come true. I need to realize them.
Because those are the ones that are easiest to become disconnected from, especially when I’m so focused on my primary goal, being my career and social chain and things like that. So yeah, those secondary and third goals: take special care of them because they are incredibly important, but they are incredibly easy to forget about.
Okay, so this is one of my favorite points I think I’ve ever written in my diary. And I’ve just written: "The happiest people are those that ask 'why' the most." We live in a society which has given us a model of how things are meant to go.
You’re meant to go to school, then you’re meant to go to university, then you’re meant to get a job so that you can pay your bills. Then you’re meant to get a mortgage, then you’re meant to quickly find someone to date before you’re 30. Then you’re meant to get married between 30 and 40. You’re meant to have two kids with that person, and then you’re meant to shift your focus to your kids before you’re meant to retire.
Finally, the last step—which isn’t hypothetical, the step you can’t control—happens, which is you die. You end up living the life you were *meant* to live, not the life that makes you happy. Not a life suited to you. A model of life that was created hundreds and hundreds of years ago in a completely different world for a completely different generation.
In order to figure out the best model for your life, we’ve got to first agree upon the ultimate objective. And I think we can all agree that the ultimate objective from life is happiness, right? So is it crazy to think that most of the things you’re *meant* to do are no longer valid? Maybe they were never valid.
Is it crazy to think that there might be a different model for your life that will make you happier? Is it crazy to think that because everyone’s different, the model for our lives should also be different? I know from dropping out of university and going off the path I was meant to take that it’s so much easier to conform.
It’s hard to search out and create a different blueprint for your life because it’s risky, and people will criticize you, and they’ll think you’re weird, and there’s no case study, so it might not work. But in dropping out of university, I was going in the direction of what my heart told me would make me happy and fulfilled.
I wasn’t going off a blueprint. Not conforming to society’s unwritten rules of how life should be led me to my own happiness. What if the same applies for everything else? Let me take one example which I guess is kind of relevant, which is marriage.
We’re told to get married because everyone does, and the untold assertion is that if you don’t get married, you’ll be unhappy and lonely. This weekend was obviously the royal wedding, which I’m sure cemented the idea in most people’s brains that you have to get married. But let’s look at the fucking numbers.
50% of marriages end in divorce. That doesn’t mean 50% of people are happily married and 50% aren’t; it just means half of them actually had the energy, guts, and resources to actually separate legally. Many of those still in marriages live in separate rooms, in separate houses—they hate each other.
I think in some way, this is kind of the story of my parents. My dad told me when I was, I don’t know, seven years old that he didn’t love my mom anymore. Marriage as a concept is broken. The stats say for the majority, the model of marriage doesn’t work.
So why the fuck are we doing it? We’re doing it because everybody does, and that’s what society says. And because we’re scared to find an alternative, and the unknown blueprint scares us more than the less than satisfactory known blueprint.
Another example: university. For the majority, university—I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again—is a total scam. If you’re spending tens to hundreds of thousands on a degree to increase your employability, for the majority, you’re being ripped off.
Experience generally matters more for the majority of professions. A one-year internship at a good company will make you drastically more employable than a three, four, five-year degree in most cases. Of the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people that we’ve employed at Social Chain around the world in the last three years in every role including design, marketing, legal, finance, sales, HR, data, business, and even our chef, the number of people I’ve asked about their degree is zero.
The number of people I’ve asked about their prior experience is 290 people. When people come back to me and say, "Well, you can’t get experience without a degree," that's partly true, but that’s just because the system’s broken.
And the other argument is: "But my doctor needs a degree." That doesn’t make scamming the majority acceptable. The majority winning doesn’t mean that the same model should be cast upon the majority.
The majority of workers say that their job did not require a degree. The majority of business owners don’t have a degree. The majority of people with a degree say their job is unrelated to that degree. The model is a scam. Just like marriage, it doesn’t work for the vast majority.
But just like marriage, we’ve built a system around it, so not only is it almost impossible to change, but many people are too scared to seek out the alternatives. So I guess my conclusion is to ask "why" more. In your own life—I’m doing it in mine.
This is what I’ve always done and what I will always continue to do: ask why things have to be the way they are. Not only could you get closer to your own happiness, but you could also be instrumental in creating a better world for future generations. I really don’t think I’m going to get married.
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Why would I? This is the most bizarre point I’ve ever talked about in my podcast, and I just don’t care. I’m really excited to share this with you because I think for some people, it’ll make you feel a little bit uncomfortable. Okay, so I just wrote in my diary: "What is real?"
I was reading some stuff online and it resonated a little bit. It’s this really interesting phenomenon called—I think it’s called "post-ejaculation syndrome," PES. And basically, when the male ejaculates, he loses his horniness, he loses his feelings, and he loses his desires.
This is part of the natural male sexual response, and they call it the "refractory period." After ejaculation, romantic interest usually completely diminishes. From a survival standpoint, they think this is probably an adaptation that kept men from spreading all of their seed at once in one place so they would have greater reproductive chances of spreading it around and creating more opportunity.
So as a man—and men listening into this will completely understand—you can literally go from desperately missing someone, thinking about them, willing to book flights to see them on the other side of the world, then masturbating and instantaneously genuinely not caring about them anymore.
Instantaneously being over them. If you’re listening to this and you’re thinking, "What the fuck is Steve on about?" Google it. I’m obviously a man, so I understand these feelings, and a quick Google search will show endless amounts of men trying to understand this as well.
But what was so interesting to me isn’t how I feel after I ejaculate—that’s not what this podcast is about. What’s interesting is: this means probably all of our sort of innate feelings, the innate things that get us down, make us happy, horny, sad, and everything in between, aren’t tangibly real.
These are emotions created by chemicals, or a lack thereof, in our bodies. I need to be extremely clear here: I am not for a second saying that mental health issues aren’t real. They are very, very, very real. I’m talking about the natural innate urges and desires we have as humans.
What I’m saying is, the example that I described above taught me that much of what we feel is due to chemicals in our bodies that are making us feel things in order to get us to carry out certain actions that are conducive with survival and reproduction. A chemical imbalance can really make us feel and think anything.
Why am I talking about this? For me, the understanding that it’s just chemicals in my body making me feel things was really liberating. Because I thought much of the sensations and the feelings and things that I encounter as a human being were real things—I don’t know, things sent from some god above. Real, tangible things.
But embracing the fact that most of the things I feel have been created within my own mind for me gave me a real sense of control over them. It took power away from them. And for me, that feeling is amazing.
Really, really weird point to end on, but I hope you understand what I’m saying. This idea that I can feel something so immensely that has so much control over me—like missing someone—and then you can change the chemicals in your brain or you can do something and instantly you don’t care. Both feelings felt so fucking real.
Like the feeling before and after feel so fucking real. What am I talking about? But do you get what I mean? Anyway, my grand conclusion to this point, if I haven’t been able to make it just yet, is how amazing the human body is and the mind is at tricking us into thinking that we genuinely feel a certain way when really there’s just a chemical driving that feeling.
For some people, this might be terrifying, because breaking your life and your emotions and feelings down to chemicals for some is really scary and it makes them feel insecure and irrelevant or whatever. But for me, it’s so empowering to know that—let’s use the example of missing somebody or feeling horny.
To know that when I feel like I really, really miss somebody, that’s not a real thing. I don’t *really, really* miss them. Or I’m not *really, really* horny. You know what I mean? It’s just chemicals. And I’m going to be okay.
And anyway, we’ll end the podcast there. What a fucking weird end. Okay, thank you so much for listening to *The Diary of a CEO*. I’m going to be back next week on Monday. This time I’m going to be on time, I promise you. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, if you’ve learned anything, if you like it, please leave me a review in the podcast store.
If you could possibly leave me five stars, that’d be amazing. And leave your social media handle in the review as well. I’m going to try and, as I always do, try and help as many of you as I possibly can. If you can share the podcast and tag me on LinkedIn or Instagram or Twitter, I will be forever indebted to you.
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