Sacha Lord's Diary - The King of Nightlife
Guests: Sacha Lord
Full transcript · Read the full conversation in order, with its original context.
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Hello. In chapter 11, I promised you one hell of a guest for chapter 12, and I have delivered. This week I sit down with the infamous Sacha Lord. He is the man behind some of the biggest events in Manchester and beyond. He's created era-defining events such as Warehouse Project, the UK’s biggest metropolitan festival in Parklife, and other European events like Croatia’s famed Hideout Festival.
He is the king of nightlife. He started out putting on his first events at Manchester's famous Haçienda before moving to reopen Sankeys. After throwing a few warehouse parties, he and his business partner Sam decided to put everything on the line and launch the world-famous Warehouse Project. That first season they sold 100,000 tickets, and the rest is history. A born entrepreneur, a party mastermind, and a man of the people. Without further ado, this is chapter 12. I'm Steve Bartlett and this is the Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody is listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself.
Thank you so much for joining me, Sacha. It’s honestly a bit of an honor. I think around our office, you’re a little bit of a celebrity as well because this crowd here, they go to all of your events. I’ve also attended many of your events. I’ve been to Parklife probably about three times in the five years that I’ve lived here. I’ve been to Warehouse Project on multiple occasions as well. Warehouse Project was my first ever experience of a proper good rave, I’d say. It was my first immersive party experience I had in my life, so I thank you for that.
What I want to do, and what I often do when I first meet someone in order to help sort of hit those key moments and understand your story, is set you a bit of a challenge. And that is: I want to give you 30 seconds to introduce yourself and to tell your life story. I’ve found this useful because it hits the key moments you think are poignant. Are you up for it?
Oh god. Yeah, okay.
Go.
So, born in Manchester, went to a good school, did well at my GCSEs, discovered the Haçienda, fucked up big time on my A-levels because I was partying. Then I realized actually, that's what I want to do for a living. Had no qualifications. Put a few student nights on, that built up into nightclub Sankeys Soap, which became Warehouse Project, which came Parklife, and then the rest is history.
Amazing. You did that in 23 seconds. That’s good. So you touched on your early years there and your school years. You were a good student that turned bad?
I was a model geek. So, I was born in Altrincham, went to Altrincham Prep. Everybody that went to Altrincham—it’s like a sausage factory—everyone was supposed to go to Manchester Grammar. So, I was forced through the education system, quite rightly by my parents, they wanted me to have a good education. But that’s where we differed because I didn’t enjoy education. I did it, did really well at my GCSEs, but I never—it’s really weird and I was asked this question actually last week—when I was at school, I knew, and this isn't cocky or arrogant, but I knew I was going to do or write for myself, but I didn't know how I was going to do it.
That's really interesting.
So everybody in my class at Manchester Grammar who wanted to go to Oxford or Cambridge and become doctors or accountants or lawyers, and they succeeded in that, I had absolutely no interest whatsoever in doing that. And I didn't know—I had passions. I was very fortunate to be growing up around the whole "Madchester" explosion. So that's the period of like The Roses and The Mondays and New Order and all those bands. So there was a lot of music happening at the time in Manchester, and I think I just got on the crest of a wave and went with that. But there was no—I didn't know what I was going to do. I used to panic about it.
Really? But that's interesting. So you had that self-belief that you sort of knew you were going to be something, you were going to do something good, right?
Yeah, I did. And again, I don't want to be cocky, but I never envisaged myself struggling in later life. I always envisaged myself going on nice holidays and doing what I wanted, and the opposite was never an option.
I honestly just got goosebumps because I’ve said the same thing in previous chapters of this podcast. I was a kid that was predicted by Plymstock School to get 12 A-stars at GCSE, and I was a geek. But then by several years down the line, I was in bottom sets for everything and I was failing on everything, but that 16-year-old kid was convinced that he wouldn't need school anyway. Hearing you say that kind of resonated with me because I didn't know how—there was no case study looking forward as to how that was going to play out.
Well, in the eyes of the school, I was most definitely a failure. I remember the yearbook when it had everybody's name and which university they were going to, and there was just a space next to mine, it was blank. Really, almost an embarrassment. But now the school invites me back to give a talk and my face is on the hall of fame, which is great, alongside Ben Kingsley who played Gandhi. It's just bizarre.
And how did your parents feel when you started to flunk a little bit in school?
Well, it actually coincided with them separating and divorcing. Which wasn't anything to do with me flunking, by the way, I was already on that pathway. But yeah, no, I think they were pretty—they never said it, but they must have been pissed off because it wasn't a cheap school to go to. I think there were times when they found it hard to pay the fees to go through the school, so there's a bit of guilt there. But I think my mom's pretty proud now.
And you cited sort of the Haçienda as being one of the reasons, and you have done in interviews, as to why school became sort of a second priority almost, I guess?
Well, yeah. So my only interest at school was Art. That was my only interest, and I think it's because—I think it's for several reasons—I actually did like Art, contemporary art, but also it gave me the flexibility because nobody else liked art, they were all too academic. So I was in the art halls by myself, which gave me the flexibility to skive and gave me the flexibility to hang around McDonald’s drive-in down the road and hang around the gates of the girls' school there. So that was my niche.
And at the time, I dressed like a geek. You know, if I gave you a pencil now, Steve, and said "draw a school geek," that was me. The little box black briefcase with those gold little numbers, the three numbers with the locks on them. That was it. And I had this teacher called Mr. McGinnis, Stephen McGinnis. And he just said to me, "Look, you're conforming too much." I remember the conversation. He said, "Why are you wearing that stiff jacket? Just get rid of it. Get rid of that briefcase. Why are you conforming like the rest of the boys?" And then literally overnight, I changed because I was thinking about this. I thought, "Why am I conforming like everyone else? I don't want to be like everybody else." And then it was so bizarre, I caught him in the Haçienda.
You’re joking.
No. Which must have been the lowest point of his life as a teacher, seeing one of his pupils in the Haçienda. But actually, we had a good laugh that night and it was the start of something.
For anybody that doesn't know, what was the Haçienda? Because it was before my years as well. In my mind, the Haçienda is this almost folklore, I hear about it all the time but I've never experienced it. What was it?
So, everybody perceives the Haçienda to be a hugely successful club that was packed every single night it opened its doors. In fact, that's not the case at all. It had a very good run for maybe three or four years, that was it. It struggled consistently for money. It had a lot of major errors with the gangs and things like that. But during that period and the explosion of acid house, the world was looking at the Haçienda.
Something very special went on within those four walls that only a small select number of people understood what was going on there. You’ve got to remember this was the whole Thatcher period, and Manchester was a pretty pissed off, depressed, gray city to live in at the time. And then there came this music, and with the music came ecstasy. And there was an explosion there. It was almost a release, it was like anarchy under this one roof. The police didn't know what was going on, they didn't have a clue. They were like, "Why are 2,000 people converging there and what's that dance that they're doing?"
How old were you?
I was 17. I went with a friend of mine called Peter Almstead, who’s now a vicar.
You’re joking.
No. And we walked in—actually, the first time we tried to get in, we got knocked back. Because I’d heard about the Haçienda and how cool it was, so I borrowed my dad’s suit, shirt, and tie, thinking that was the look. Got to the door and the door lads were like, "Listen, dickheads, crack on, not here, mate." So I revisited the following week in just a t-shirt and jeans, got in. And what we saw blew us away. It was like, "What's that dance they're doing? What is that?"
What was the dance?
Well, there’s no point in me doing it now, but you were literally throwing your arm in the air consistently. It was an acid house dance. I still see it today. And it was the first time I’d ever seen—all the other clubs in Manchester were playing records that would be introduced by the DJ, who you know, would say, "And now we're going to play a Happy Mondays track or a New Order track" or whatever.
He kept interrupting.
Yeah, interrupt. And then I walked through the doors and this time the customers were praying to the DJ. So the DJ was playing the records, but the DJ was possibly more important than the records. I’d never seen this before. He was mixing it and it was like this is something really, really special. And the interaction between the customer and the DJ—well, we still see it now. But yeah, we didn't realize until six months later that everybody was on ecstasy. We were just two kids from Manchester Grammar walking around thinking, "This is great. Can’t wait till Monday to tell everyone."
So that experience at Haçienda sort of changed your—it distracted you in some ways from the academic side of your life?
Yeah, I wanted to be different at that point. Something snapped in my head. I remember even up until that day, it was always cool to—and this is like stupid things that stick in my head—it was always seen as cool to sit on the back seat on the bus. I don’t know why, I don’t know who made that rule up. But actually, when I was getting the school bus after that, I thought, "I don't want to be like everybody else who wants to sit on the back seat and think I'm cool. Do you know what? I might stand up for this journey." It just said you can do whatever you want to do and be whatever you want to be.
So at 18, did you go to university?
No.
What was your, upon leaving school, what was your sort of first job then?
First job, I worked in a clothes shop in Altrincham called Flannels. It was the first store, and they’ve got quite a few Flannels now. And then so I did that Monday through to Saturday, and on the Sunday I used to do a market in Liverpool called Stanley Dock Market, selling leather jackets.
And at your GCSEs or equivalent, how did you do?
Very well. Straight A's.
And then what exams came after that? A-levels?
A-levels. I originally wanted to do Art, English, and Politics. After four months, the politics teacher said, "Listen, just forget this. You don't know what you're doing." So I went down to two A-levels. Really didn't enjoy English at all. And actually, although I loved Art, I only got a U at Art because I didn't do the coursework. I loved the painting, but I didn't like the write-up. No, I loved reading about Matisse or Van Gogh or anyone like that, but I don't want to start writing books about them.
And so you leave your A-levels with bad grades, terrible grades. You go and do normal jobs in the market stalls and in Altrincham locally. How did that go from there to getting involved in the sort of nightlife entertainment scene?
Well, this was another thing. Another possible life-changing moment. The people who I was serving at Flannels were all very successful people. I remember clearly they used to turn up outside the shop that had a glass frontage in Ferraris or Bentleys. I’d be sat there measuring the trousers—I can do turn-ups on trousers by the way, or your inside leg—and I’d be sat there measuring them thinking to myself... and bear in mind we're talking about 1990, so it’d be a lot more expensive now... but I’d be thinking "How on earth can somebody not bat an eyelid spending £300 on a suit?"
I was just earning £120 a week at the time and I was thinking, "How is that physically possible?" And then I was thinking to myself, "Do you know what? If I had that money, I'd be really sensible and I wouldn't spend £300 on a suit." Actually, that’s a load of rubbish. It tends to be the way. But yeah, again, it made me quite...
Did it make you want nice things?
Yes.
And have you always wanted nice things?
Always.
And now that you have money, how did it feel to get money? From being a young guy just like me that didn't have it, to then getting it. How did that feel and what role does money play in your life?
So, I think, well firstly I went through, when I started my student nights off, I went through a terrible period of, you know, I'd earn £1,000 a week or something, but then I'd spend £1,100 a week. I went through a period of two years when I was starting up where I wasn't paying my credit cards, I wasn't paying my water bills, I wasn't paying my heating bills. Bailiffs used to turn up and it was a nightmare. I’d have to move—I was renting at the time—so I'd move so they couldn't find me and there was all this dodging the bullets and stuff. And then there was a moment where I thought, "Well, it's time to grow up."
But I think when you become successful and you reach that point where you no longer have to worry about how much... you know, I don't have to, when I go to a restaurant, I don't have to have a look at the prices on the menu or, I'm fortunate enough if I see clothes now I don't have to look at the price of the clothes, and holidays I can go where I want. But there's always, annoyingly, when you think you've got to the top of the mountain, you never are. There's always somebody much higher and there's always something to strive for and achieve for.
And I think when you do succeed, you notice a change in friends as well. Which isn't particularly very nice. The people who were there at the outset are my true friends. They're my real friends. And they don't care if I've got 5p to my name, they don't care if I've got £5 million to my name. They're my friends. But when people now see what you do or they've heard your name or they see what you drive, you get these hangers-on and it's just—I reached a point last year where I said, "You know what? I'm getting rid of everyone, I'm cutting them off." I changed my number at home, and I think I've got six friends, maybe seven, who are my true friends. And they're the people I’ll speak to at home on the home phone.
Do you think what you do, and being an entrepreneur in general, is quite a lonely pursuit?
Very lonely. Yeah. It comes with a lot of pressure. You’ve kind of just shown me around your offices here and I’ve seen how many staff you've got and it's a phenomenal success. And anybody, the normal person on the street will walk in and go, "Wow, Steve, you're doing so well, this is incredible." But actually, I know, although you may not admit it, that you have this overhead at the back of your mind and you feel responsible to pay all these people's wages. And if you don't pay all these people's wages, they can't eat or they can't pay their rent. So, the more you succeed, the more pressure does come on your shoulders.
And how have you been dealing with that pressure? Because just going to jump back a sec. So you're this young guy seeing these Ferraris pull up at this clothing shop. You've now, if we go forward to the point where you're starting to run these big events. The events you throw in this city and across the country to be completely honest, and in parts of Europe as well, are tremendous events. When I look at what Parklife is, I just can't imagine the amount of like logistics and the amount of people involved in that and the amount of people that have to be paid. You have to make sure people arrive. All of those things. Throwing little events is a headache for me. So throwing an event of that scale for me is just something I would never want to do because of the pressure. So how is that for you throwing a world-renowned event like Parklife in terms of pressure?
Well, I've got a great business partner, Sam. And we bounce off each other. We’re chalk and cheese. Sam and I would probably find it hard to sit and have a pint and have a full conversation because we are chalk and cheese, but it works. Sam deals with the more creative and obviously the artist booking, and I'm more logistics, dealing with the council, the authorities. So it goes hand in hand. But the pressure is unbearable.
No one ever sees that, though.
No one ever sees that. From the outside looking in, it looks like you guys just have an idea and then it happens. That's the perception, right? Even when I read your story in the interviews I've read, it was you had an idea to reopen Sankeys Soap and it happened. You had the idea for Parklife and it happened. That's the only story I read. So what I'm interested in is I know those things don't just happen.
Well, I mean you read that I had an idea to reopen Sankeys Soap and it did reopen, but what you don't read is the night before, the Salford gangs petrol-bombed the nightclub. Really. Yeah, it was bad times then. But I think we do come up with these ideas and we've got a phenomenal team around us that we've created. As we've grown, they've also grown. So we can say, "Right, we want to do this," and then sometimes it's an impossible idea that we come up with, but the team manage to resolve it. And I think certainly, you know, when things are amazing, when you put an event on and it's an incredible event and the press are all brown-nosing you, there's nothing better. Forget the money side, it's incredible. But then there's the other side that when something goes tits up, and all of a sudden for a two-three week period you're the bad guy, then that is a pretty lonely period.
Talking about "tits up."
Well, 2013, we had a guy called Nick Bonnie who came to Warehouse Project when it was at Victoria Warehouse. And we didn't know at the time but he’d been taking drugs all day long and he became very poorly at the Warehouse Project, and our ambulance took him to hospital and he didn't make it. He didn't survive, sadly. So, normal promoters—because it's not a common occurrence but it happens in every single city—but I wanted to take the bull by the horns and I wanted to educate my customers and other customers to say, "Look, I know you're going to party, but don't act reckless because you don't really know what you're doing or what you're taking, and this can happen."
So I called a press conference. Against the advice of our PR company, I called a press conference held at the Malmaison, and Sam and I were sat there with all these cameras pointing at us and all the radio stations had the little mobile phones in front of us. And my opening gambit was: I thanked people for coming, and I just wanted them to help me spread the word, whether it's on the TV, whether it's on the radio, whether it's in print, and try and educate the clubbers who are going out these days.
And of course, that didn't happen. They completely demonized it. And I remember the front page of the Manchester Evening News the day after was "Superclub Death Boss Speaks Out" or "Death Club Super Boss Speaks Out." And it was on all those sandwich boards around town. And people didn't realize that when you go through something like that, it actually affects you really badly. You do question... and Sam and I debated whether to carry on the Warehouse Project season that season because somebody who came to our event didn't make it.
And if we hadn't put that event on, would Nick still be alive to this day? The answer that I came up with was no, because he would have gone to another party anyway. Where perhaps at least he had a fighting chance with us because we had paramedics and we had the ambulance, whereas if he had been somewhere else then he wouldn't have been given that chance. So yeah, negatives do happen.
Did you get a chance to speak to his family or to anybody close to him at all?
No. Through the press we spoke, but that was it. But there was nothing negative from his family at all. In fact, from memory, I think his mom was a drugs worker, so she understood. But yeah, not a pleasant few weeks.
I can't even imagine what that's like to deal with. And I guess it's that, as you've seen there, you've done a little bit of soul-searching to figure out whether you could have done more, whether it's worth continuing. But as you said, these things happen in a world where people party.
Correct. And you know, the annoying thing because it has to be acknowledged it happens, but because it was all over the press worldwide, by the way, not locally, the Warehouse Project now has this stigma attached to it to the average Joe on the street that doesn't come. They think Warehouse Project is just full of people that take loads of drugs. And I'm not going to say there aren't drugs in there, because there are in every single dance venue in the country, but you've been yourself—it's a very happy experience in there.
No, it was amazing. Honestly, it was amazing. And I remember being there and genuinely having the thought that I didn't know places like this existed. I didn't know you could have an experience like this. And I went back several times. And it's moved over to Store Street now.
Yes, it’s back into the tunnel.
When I first went it was over by Old Trafford.
Which was the venue I just spoke about then. So that must have been 2012/13.
And so dealing with that tragedy, how do you carry on from there? Did Warehouse take some time out?
No, we didn't take any time out. In fact, I went on a mission, and I still do now. So, we do random drugs tests back of house at Warehouse Project. I work very closely with The Loop charity. And you know, we've got hundreds of thousands—which sounds pathetic when I’ve looked at the figures that you've just shown me on your social media channels now—but we have the ears of the 18 to 23 clubbers in the UK. They look at what Warehouse Project does. So if I can feed a message out to say, I don't know, in Liverpool there’d be these red tablets with a handbag on the front of them, they're lethal, avoid them. We do that. I'm not scared of doing that. I know other promoters and club owners who think, well if you put a message out like that, you're saying there's drugs in your venue and the authorities won't like it. That is not the case actually; the authorities appreciate you doing that.
Talk about those moments and you referenced loneliness following those moments. How have you dealt with those tough moments in a personal way? What's your support system like? Is there an internal dialogue? Have you had therapy? Do you go and speak to somebody? Is it your family?
I'm a bit like a hedgehog. I just have to think it through myself. The gym helps me a lot. So, I probably go five, six times a week. You wouldn't think it looking at me...
No, you actually look like you’re in really good shape.
So that to me is a period where if you have a lot of tension, you go and punch a punchbag for 30 minutes and you do feel better. If you jog, it's a good time to think.
Your internal dialogue must be pretty good though. So the voice that's talking back to you when you're thinking things through must be very good at sort of rationalizing things and not self-blaming or beating yourself up or worrying too much.
Well, I write a lot of lists. There's nothing better than if you think about things in your mind, you'll start forgetting things, but if it's written down with a pencil in front of you—let's say you have five or six challenges to get through—I go through it and then I cross those challenges off. And that's the way I do it. I just look at everything on paper and try and work it out.
Are you in a relationship? Married? Single?
I've got a girlfriend.
And how has she found—one of the things I always find really interesting and this is again me soul-searching for myself because I continually fail in relationships, I've gone from one failed relationship to another, and I was almost at one point thinking that it's impossible for me to have a good relationship whilst running a business. How have you found that process of being incredibly busy but trying to compromise when you have to?
Well, I think it's... I said this last week actually, I am adamant, and there are many entrepreneurs who disagree with me, but I don't believe what they're telling me because you never know what goes on behind people's doors of their homes. But I think it is impossible to throw your life into your work and at the same time, hand in hand, have a very successful personal relationship. I don't think that's possible. I think you either decide to put all your effort and time into one or the other. You can't spin both plates.
And you know, I've been seeing someone now for eight months. And I think she kind of likes what I do for a living. And I try and share... people from the outside find it exciting what I do. Obviously, I'm in it; it's a fucking nightmare.
Yeah, that’s what I mean. The finding it exciting, you're a successful guy, you go to the gym, very appealing proposition. But then when you become part of it, it's a different story because you must be tremendously focused at times, you must have a lot on your mind, you must be quite distant even when you're in the room with this person. So the experience can't be as exciting and wonderful, right? Or am I wrong?
No. My breathing space is my holiday. So we had an amazing holiday back in January, 10 days, where I literally just switched off. That’s it. And I managed to do that for the first time in quite a long time. And there’s a couple of other holidays booked coming up. But no, she understands that my laptop always has to be open. And if I'm being completely frank, hers is always open as well. She’s always looking at whether it's Missguided or Pretty Little Thing or Zara. And apparently—I don't understand why she's looking at the same websites every day—but apparently the clothing changes every day. And then tomorrow 10 bags of clothes will arrive and then 11 go back. I don't get it. I'm old-fashioned.
And what is it about you that made you get here and other people that desire to have the life that you have? What is it about Sacha that's made Sacha sit here being the success that he is versus someone else that has the desire but isn't sat where you are?
Well, I think most definitely luck has played a massive part in where I am now. I think being in the right place at the right time.
What was that right place?
The Haçienda. As an inspiration. And then not just there, I do reference that a lot, but there have been several key moments throughout my life. For example, working at Flannels and seeing these people coming in with their nice cars and it just gave me a kick up the arse, really, to go out and just grab it.
But yeah, sorry, what was the question?
Basically like, I'm trying to figure out what it is that makes you successful. And I read online in an interview that you did about your attention to detail and things like that, and being the person that protects the standard.
Well, I think, I don't like to use the word OCD because I don't have real OCD, but I'm certainly—I like everything to be perfect. And if it's not perfect, it really pisses me off because it means you could do better. And the other thing is I know so many people who work 9-to-5 jobs but actually they have great ideas and they share their ideas with me, "What do you think about this? I'm thinking of doing this." And they never actually do it. And I'll see them five years down the line later and they're still doing the same job that they hated when they spoke to me about the great idea.
So my recommendation was to anybody that has a good idea, go and do it. Because you're 25, and if everything fucked up tomorrow, okay, you'd be absolutely mortified, but you're 25. You know, the world’s your oyster, you can go out and achieve whatever you need.
Why do you think it is that people don't end up doing what they dream to do?
I think you can get... I understand people like living in the safety net of a 9-to-5 job, knowing you're going to come out at the end of the month with X amount. Out of that X amount, you pay your mortgage or your rent, you buy your food, you know what your bills are and you've got that in your pocket. I think it's possibly the fear.
But then I do question myself—this is going deep now—so I can be sat on Princess Parkway. I've left the office, I've had a ticket count, we've had a great day, and I'm sat in my car. I have a car that sticks out.
What car is it?
A Ferrari.
Nice! So you finally got the Ferrari.
I did. So I'm sat there in this Ferrari and the bus is next to me and the people on the bus are looking at me thinking, "You bastard." But then I'm looking at those people on the bus thinking, "Well actually, you're going home now to your loved ones, you're going to have your dinner on the table at 6:30 and you've left your work behind. And you don't see your work again until 9 o'clock tomorrow. So the evening's yours and the morning's yours and you can do what you want and you don't have any stress or worry because you're getting your paycheck at the end of the month." You may have the worries of paying the bills and things like that, but who's chosen the right path?
Now, everybody's going to say the guy sat in the Ferrari chose the right path. I don't know what the answer is, to be honest.
I’ve always thought that it was just subjective. I don't think entrepreneurship is for everybody because I don't think some people would enjoy the bullshit. We refer to it as such a negative thing, but I’ve almost got addicted to it. I've almost got addicted to the challenge and things being tough. And my tough days in hindsight are always my favorite ones. They're the ones where I stretched myself and I came outside of my comfort zone. I don't think everybody would enjoy that experience.
I'm really good at spending all Saturday sat at my desk on my own, and I enjoy that. And I think that's a bit weird. I think I've got a bit of a sickness in that regard. Because surely I should want to go out and see my friends and see my family. No, I just want to sit on my computer. So I just think it's a subjective thing.
It is. But I think you'll reach a stage, Steve, when—believe it or not, I know you can’t tell looking at me, but I am a bit older than you. So you will reach a stage, because you're in the aggressive stage at the moment and you're building something fantastic...
I know what you're going to say. So I think what you're going to say, and this is what I've been told before, where I won't be able to do what I do now basically when I'm a slightly older. And in some respects, 18-year-old Steve doesn't operate like 25-year-old Steve does. 18-year-old Steve was the savage. 25-year-old Steve is a little bit more weathered; he likes to lay down a little bit more. But I'm still super aggressive, but not compared to 18-year-old Steve. So when I think about what 30-year-old Steve will look like, I hope that I'm not doing this because I think that would be a very sad thing if I was still operating in the same way that I do now. I think there's much more to life than that.
It’ll come. And I also think, you know, what's happened to me—I don't know how it's happened, I can only think it's an age thing—but in the last two years, I've noticed now I spend half my time giving advice to people. Because of where I am, what I've achieved, what I've been through, people are looking at me as almost an example. And they're asking me questions, and I really enjoy giving people my advice, whether it's right or wrong, I don't know. But yeah, I'm doing more of these interviews and more talks at universities and I think people quite like the idea that I achieved something by fucking up in the first place.
Of course. Yeah. Because you're the underdog there. And people have almost this picture of what a successful person, their life looks like, and it starts with being handed a silver spoon and then getting amazing grades and going to Oxford. So anyone that shatters that perception, they become super relatable, they become someone that is just like me and they become the role models. I think that's exactly what a lot of people see in you. And I see it in you as well. Just hearing your journey today, there's been so many times where I've thought, "That makes sense now because of my own experiences and my perception of the world."
On that point, if you were to give advice to somebody, and this person is you when you were 16 years old, let's say, or 18 years old. What would that advice have been? Let's say it's 16 years old.
Do you know what? I wouldn't have made many changes, I don't think. Because I was actually going to say I wouldn't have done this, wouldn't have done that where I'd made mistakes, but you'll know yourself, every time you make a mistake, you learn from that mistake and it actually improves you to move on.
So, no. Would I have said to myself, "Go and do your A-levels at 16, make sure you get your A-levels"? No.
Would you say that to your own kid now?
Well, I don't have any kids, but if I had kids, no. I would much rather my kid or kids had fun at school rather than... I mean obviously, I don't want them to completely flunk out, but I would want them to have more fun than sit down and study all day long and then go home and then do homework all night long. Go outside, kick a football around, just have fun.
If life isn't about—because when I didn't have money, I made the foolish mistake of thinking that that was really important. I wrote in my diary when I was 18, "I want to be a millionaire before I'm 25, I want a Range Rover to be my first car," all these things. And I look back on my diary now and I just think what a terrible goal to write for the next seven years of your life. And upon arriving at the point where I have those things, I've now started doing a bit of soul-searching in myself and asking, "Okay, if I'm not doing this for monetary gain, then why am I doing this? Why am I building a big business and why am I making the money? What's the point in it all?" And as someone that's slightly wiser than I am, what's your answer to that?
Well, look how many people you're helping along the way. Look how many staff you've got here who are paying the bills because of you. And you want to... you went through really tough times when you were starting off. So you're proving to yourself that you can do it. So you're just beating yourself, you're racing against yourself. I think that's important that you always better yourself.
And is that for you? Is that the fulfillment from this for you? That you're beating yourself?
There is nothing better than if I'm walking through Manchester or London and I see somebody who was at my school, and I don't have anything against those people, but they're now lawyers and they're wearing a really boring suit with a really shitty tie, and I just look at them and I just think "That's great." You know, I am so happy.
And I think the freedom is important as well. Obviously, you're tied to this business, so I won't say it's a prison sentence, but you know, it's a big ball and chain. But if you want to just stick a tracksuit on now and run up and down the Deansgate, you can do that. And no one can say "Steve, you're fired." Do whatever you want to do. I don't suggest you do that by the way because you'd get some really weird looks. But it's fine within our policy.
What are your sort of personal ambitions then? You've achieved so much and I think where you're at, people would do anything to be in a position where you're at. And you must get so bored of people saying things like "you're so proud of yourself" etc., etc. because as you said it's just a battle amongst yourself, you're not competing against another competitor, you're battling Sacha every day. What is Sacha's next big battle then, and his next big ambition?
So, I'm really proud of my city, Manchester and Greater Manchester, the ten boroughs. And I think, you know, I've worked for—my first night was July the 4th, '94. So this will be 24 years. I've seen everything come and go in the city and I've seen the city develop in a very, very good way, especially since the bomb, actually. That was a turning point for the city. I'm talking about the IRA bomb, by the way.
So, I would like to give back to the city what the city has given me because the city gave me lots of chances that other cities wouldn't. There are lots of other cities that would not allow somebody to put a rave on in a car park. When I wanted to reopen Sankeys Soap that had been open from '94 to '98 when it wasn't mine, the police shut it down because there were guns and there was all sorts going on and the drug dealing. And I wanted to reopen it, and I proved to the police I could do that. Most cities wouldn't allow that to happen; it's shut, it’s staying shut.
So we have a very, very forward-thinking council, Labor-run council in Manchester, and they've always understood the importance of the nighttime economy and looking back at the days of the Haçienda when the world was looking at us as the music leaders. That's recognized how important it is for the city to understand and support nighttime economy. And that has been consistent throughout even when counselors have come and gone and changed seats. So I'd like to give back to the city what they've let me achieve.
I think you'd be a great ambassador for the city. Speaking personally, because yeah, you've got a very sort of authentic relationship with the city and I don't think many people are better placed to understand both sides of the spectrum in terms of what the city needs but also what the people that live within the city are looking for. So definitely have my support on that.
I had another question which I tend to ask everybody I meet. It gives me a bit of a perspective on who your idols are. If you had a dinner party and there are six seats, right? One of them's mine because I'm cooking. The other one's yours. The other four seats for the dinner party, dead or alive, who would you be inviting to the table?
David Bowie. He was a fucking genius. He reinvented himself so many times against all the odds as well, by the way. I think Prince would be there. I mean you're going to think this is absolutely pathetic now, but I know we do have something in common—love him or hate him—José would be at the table.
Mourinho? Oh, I love Mourinho.
We have the same birthday. And I've met him twice, actually. Not what you'd expect: the loveliest guy. Really nice, genuine guy. Although I had got his daughter guest-list for the MTV Awards, so maybe that has something to do with that. Bribery.
So, where are we? Bowie, Prince, José... I've met her before but maybe Grace Jones.
Do you still get the same excitement from putting on your events as you did when you started?
No. Definitely not. Because now that it's a lot more serious because they're a lot bigger. Parklife was 20,000 people when it started at Platt Fields—one day.
Do you get anxiety in the lead-up to the event?
Very much so. Yeah. Going to the gym and week leading up to it, red wine does appear. And you must be thinking about everything that could possibly go wrong. Everything.
So during Parklife, this is an example actually how people think and there's nothing wrong with this because people don't understand how it works and the intensity of it. But one of my girlfriend’s friends said, "Oh, I'm looking forward to Parklife, we can hang out with you that weekend." I’m like... I'm responsible for 85,000 people every day for two days. 300-plus artists. There's literally a hospital on site. There's 84 catering units. 13 stages of music. And you think I'm going to hang out with you for two days? Are you mad?
So for those two days, there's something called event control which is an arena that we set up where there's a wall of CCTV cameras watching everywhere throughout the park. And then everybody has their own desk of the statutory authorities, so there's a desk commanded by the police, NWAS, fire service, environmental health, security, my desk. And in the middle of the room, you have this huge map. And when something goes wrong, we all stand around it and it's like, "Here's the challenge, how do we overcome it?"
What's the worst thing that's ever gone wrong?
Last year was a nightmare. So, we had Frank Ocean refusing to go on until we'd resolved something. So he went on 38 minutes late. I heard about this on Twitter. Yeah, he went on 38 minutes late until we resolved something for him. It was something technical; I actually can't remember what it was. It was not him being a diva or anything; it was something technical, and I get why he didn't want to go on because it has to be perfect for him as an artist.
So because of that, he insisted still on doing the full set, which meant I'd be breaking the 11 o'clock curfew. So I had to think of something like how do I explain to the head of the council here now I want to go over the 11 o'clock curfew because I will get the bollocking of my lifetime and I could be fined, they might not let me do this again next year.
And then at exactly the same time, there was a tragedy where somebody had fallen on one of the Metrolink lanes in the city center, nothing to do with Parklife. So none of the trams were working. The trams stopped working. So at the same time, then I had 20,000 people who had to walk back into Manchester. So out of that, I managed to convince the council that a staggered egress would be a lot better than actually kicking everyone out at the same time and 20,000 people walking back into town. Stagger the egress out and do it that way.
And in that moment when Frank Ocean is not going to go on until this is fixed, this is your problem, right? This is your problem to deal with. The buck stops with you.
Well, it stops with me and Sam and the team, but probably because I'm known on social media, I'm the one that gets the aggro from the customer if something goes wrong. They come for me. It’s an immense amount of pressure.
And what's the big vision then for Parklife? Where are you going to take it?
Well, Parklife can’t go any bigger. Parklife will always remain in Manchester. It’s a question I get asked a lot; it’s going nowhere. It’s the biggest metropolitan festival in the country now. And I'm really proud of that. Proud Manchester has that. So in terms of Parklife, it's all about the thing we can improve is the production. So we've got some really nice bits coming in this year. Some extra special stages that just look incredible. They're very costly. So Sam went to see Kendrick Lamar last week in London, and the next day he phoned me up and he’s like, "Right, that's it, main stage we're going to have it exactly the same as Kendrick Lamar’s stage." I’m like "that costs millions." So we've had to find sort of a fine line between the two to keep him happy and to keep the budget happy.
You’re 46 now? You look really good; you look about 30.
Thank you. I guess that's going to the gym every day and healthy eating.
You look tanned as well, which is probably been on a holiday at some point recently.
Holiday, but also the sunbed center next to Waitrose in Altrincham.
Nice! See, this is all about honesty. I would never admit that. That's the depth I was looking for.
Okay, and my last question for you then. As someone again that is significantly more wise than I am and has been, especially within the Manchester scene, but in the business world longer than I have: what one piece of advice would you give to me as I continue on my own sort of personal journey and to young entrepreneurs that are like me starting out?
I think just do exactly what you're doing now and whatever belief you've got is quite clearly working. And anybody around you who’ll say, "Well, Steve, I wouldn't do this, I wouldn't take on another ten people because think of the wage bill and the overhead," fuck 'em. Just do it. Because it's succeeding now and you know, cut out all those negative people.
My... I didn't have a great relationship with my dad but he always used to say, "If you hang around with shit, you'll end up in the shit." And it's true. If you hang around with negative people that want to pull you down and question everything you do, you'll be pulled down with them. So just release yourself and just surround yourself by, as you have done here—I’ve met your colleagues and your partners—just surround yourself by like-minded people who want to go out and make a difference. That would be my advice.
Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I cannot wait for Parklife this year. I saw the lineup and the reaction from the team here kind of says it all. I'm of the group here, I'm probably the one that's less involved with music events because of time and I struggle to make the time for it, but the people that are the hardcore Parklife fans here have never been—and I'm not just saying this to bullshit to your face—they've never been more excited. I did a bit of a test of the guys, I was like "have you guys all seen the lineup?" and they’re like "oh my god, it's sick this year." So that's a tremendous credit for you.
I want to thank you on behalf of Manchester as well because you've brought a lot to Manchester. Having the festivals here and having the events here brings a lot to the wider economy as well. You've also been a tremendous advocate for the city on a wider stage, but you're also approachable, which I find really fascinating. The fact that you even came and did this, the fact that you respond on Twitter, that it's you that's tweeting, I think is something that a lot of sort of leaders and especially leaders within a city could take notes from. So on behalf of Manchester, I just want to say thank you so much and keep inspiring us and keep helping put the city on the map because I think it's going to help a lot of other young entrepreneurs to come try and follow in a similar footstep. So thank you very much. I’ve enjoyed this.
Thank you so much for listening to this chapter. It means the world to me. If you can, please do subscribe to the podcast and you'll be notified the minute it's released. I'm often quite bad at letting you know when it's out on my social channels, so this will give you a bit of an advantage. Also, if you have a couple of seconds, please do leave a review for me in the App Store. Everybody that reviews the podcast and tweets me, I promise you, if you leave your handle in the review, I will get in touch. Thanks, and I'll see you next week.
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