Narendra Modi: Prime Minister of India – Power, Democracy, War & Peace

The episode opens with excerpts from Narendra Modi before the formal introduction. His first claim is that his personal standing is really a national one. He says that when he shakes hands with a world leader, "it’s not Modi, but 1.4 billion Indians doing so," and that he carries Vedic tradition, the teachings of Swami Vivekananda and the aspirations of his compatriots wherever he goes.

My strength lies not in my name, but in the backing of 1.4 billion Indians and thousands of years of timeless culture and heritage.

He links India's voice on peace to its history. He says the world listens because India is "the land of Gautama Buddha and Mahatma Gandhi," and that Indians "aren’t hardwired to espouse strife and conflict." He presents India as a country that seeks neither war against nature nor strife among nations, and that has "gladly embraced" the role of peacemaker wherever it can. In this excerpt these are statements of national self-image. He offers no specific diplomatic cases to back them up.

He also describes his own background. His early life was spent in "extreme poverty," but he says the family never felt its weight because they had nothing to compare it with. His example is shoes: someone used to fine shoes misses them, but "we had never worn shoes in our lives," so they could not know that wearing shoes was a big deal.

The one concrete geopolitical case in the opening is Pakistan. Modi says he specially invited Pakistan to his swearing-in as Prime Minister so the two countries could turn over a new leaf. He says "every noble attempt at fostering peace was met with hostility and betrayal." He separates the state from its citizens, saying he believes "even the people of Pakistan long for peace." The excerpt gives only his account of these events. No Pakistani perspective or details of specific incidents appear here.

Asked about criticism, he sums up his stance in one sentence: he welcomes it, because "criticism is the soul of democracy." The excerpt doesn't show how this works in practice; Lex Fridman later says the controversies are discussed at length in the conversation. The opening ends with a message to young people.

No matter how dark the night may seem, it is still just night, and morning is bound to come.

Lex Fridman calls it "one of the most moving conversations and experiences of my life" and sums up Modi's career: he rose from poverty to lead 1.4 billion people in "the biggest democracy in the world," and won elections for Prime Minister three times. Fridman describes India as made up of highly varied cultures and peoples, with a long history of religious, social and political frictions, and says Modi fought for ideas that unite it.

Fridman doesn't describe Modi as universally admired. He says Modi is known for "decisive, at times controversial actions," for which he is loved by hundreds of millions and "also criticized by many." On the world stage, Fridman says Modi is respected as a peacemaker and friend by most major leaders, including those of nations at war with each other. He names the United States, China, Ukraine, Russia, Israel, Palestine and the Middle East. This is Fridman's own judgment, offered without supporting evidence in this segment.

He explains why he thinks the moment matters. He says it is clear "at least to me" that the flourishing of human civilization "hangs in the balance." He cites several wars on the brink of regional or even global escalation, rising tensions between nuclear powers, technologies "from AI to nuclear fusion" that could transform society and geopolitics, and growing political and cultural turmoil. From this he argues the world needs peacemakers who "build bridges, not destroy them," who preserve their nations' identities while celebrating common humanity.

He then responds in advance to listeners who might think he is "enamored by power or access." He denies it, saying he is generally skeptical of power, money and fame because they corrupt "the mind, the heart, the soul of a person."

I do not idolize anyone, especially those in power.

Fridman says his aim in every conversation is to explore "the full complexity of every human being, the good and the bad." He believes everyone is capable of good and evil, whether "a world leader or a truck driver, a coal miner, or a farmer in the American Midwest." He adds that this year he will talk to many people of that latter kind as he travels the US and the world, mostly off mic and "maybe even on mic."

He says his remarks concern Modi both as a leader and as a human being, based on extensive time together on and off mic. He describes the interaction as marked by "warmth, kindness, humor, inner and outer peace," and full focus on the present moment. He adds that he has heard from many people that Modi treats everyone this empathically, whatever their position. This is secondhand testimony, which Fridman presents as such.

Fridman explains how the bilingual conversation is presented. In the original recording he speaks English and Modi speaks Hindi. Captions and voiceover tracks are available in English, Hindi and other languages, and subtitles can be turned on separately. This matters for reading the transcript: the default version is an English overdub, and the team uses AI voice cloning, credited to ElevenLabs and a team of translators, to render the Prime Minister's voice in English.

How to choose a version on YouTube: open the settings gear icon, then audio track; select English for a fully English overdub; select Hindi for a fully Hindi overdub; select the Hindi Latin audio track for the original mixed-language version, with subtitles in any language.

Fridman promises to keep working to break down language barriers and make the conversations as accessible as possible. He closes with thanks to the audience before handing over to the interview.

The conversation starts with Fridman's own fast. He says he has gone almost two days, 45 hours, on water only and no food, "in honor of this conversation" and to get into the right mindset. He has read that Modi often fasts for many days, and asks why and where his mind goes during a fast. Modi says he is pleasantly surprised and honored, partly because the fast feels like a tribute to him, and thanks Fridman.

Modi places fasting in a broader view of religion as a way of life. He cites India's Supreme Court, which he says interpreted Hinduism as not being about rituals or methods of worship but a philosophy that guides life itself. He says the scriptures discuss elevating the body, mind, intellect, soul and humanity through various paths. Fasting is one of these, but "fasting alone isn’t everything." He calls it a way to cultivate discipline and to bring the inner and outer self into balance.

Most of his description is about how fasting changes perception. He tells Fridman that after two days on water his senses, especially smell, touch and taste, become highly sensitive. He might notice the subtle aroma of water, catch the smell of tea or coffee as someone passes, or see the details of a familiar small flower more vividly. Modi says he has often experienced this himself, and also that fasting can "greatly accelerate the thinking process" and help him think outside the box. He qualifies this: "I don’t know if everyone experiences this, but I certainly do."

He separates fasting from just going without food. If someone goes hungry because of hardship, he asks, "can we call that fasting?" He calls it "a scientific process" and describes his preparation for long fasts. For five to seven days beforehand he follows Ayurvedic and yoga practices and other traditional cleansing methods to reset his system internally. He drinks as much water as possible, and calls this a detoxification process. In this excerpt, the scientific claim rests on his personal practice and experience. He cites no studies or measurements, and the reported effects on the senses and on thinking are his own observations.

Once a fast begins, Modi says, it becomes "an act of devotion" and a form of self-discipline. He goes about his daily activities while his mind stays deeply introspective and focused inward, which he calls "profoundly transformative." He stresses that the habit didn't come from books, sermons or family tradition. It came from his own experience.

That experience goes back to his school days. He describes a movement inspired by Mahatma Gandhi's vision of cow protection, at a time when the government had not enacted any laws on it. People across the country held a one-day fast, gathering in public places for silent protests. Modi, who had "probably had just finished primary school," decided to take part. It was his first fast. He says he felt neither hunger nor desire for food, but a new awareness and "a surge of energy."

After that, he says, he became convinced that fasting is "a science far beyond just skipping meals," and refined his body and mind through experiments over a long, disciplined journey. He claims fasting doesn't reduce his workload; he works as much as usual and sometimes more. He also says he is amazed at how his thoughts flow when he needs to express them while fasting.

Fasting never slows me down. I work just as much as usual. Sometimes I even work more.

Fridman follows up by asking whether Modi still meets world leaders, manages India's affairs and carries out his role on the world stage while fasted, "and sometimes nine days?" Modi responds by describing two different nine-day Navratri routines: in one he says he takes only hot water, and in the other one chosen fruit once a day; he places these within decades of fasting practice.

Modi presents his fasting as an inherited religious and seasonal tradition rather than a personal regimen. He points to Chaturmas, an ancient Indian practice tied to the monsoon. His reason is that during that season "the digestion tends to slow down," so many people in India eat only one meal in 24 hours. This is his own explanation of the custom. No evidence for the physiological claim is given in the conversation. For him the period runs from around mid-June until after Diwali, around November, which comes to about four to four and a half months of one meal a day.

Stricter fasts sit inside that cycle. During Navratri, which he says usually falls in September or October and which the country marks as Durga Puja, "a festival of strength, devotion, and spiritual discipline," he goes nine days without food and drinks only hot water. He says hot water was already part of his daily routine, a habit that grew out of his earlier lifestyle. During Chaitra Navratri in March or April ("This year, it will likely begin around March 31st"), he eats one chosen fruit, once a day, for all nine days. His example is papaya: if he picks it, he eats nothing else for the whole period.

Perhaps I can say that I’ve been following these practices for 50 to 55 years.

Fridman links this to his own shorter fast. He says that after even two days, his ability to be present and focused felt heightened. That is a personal impression, not a measured finding. He then asks whether Modi has fasted completely while meeting other world leaders, and how they reacted.

Modi says he mostly does not tell people he is fasting. He calls it "my personal matter" and says he never publicized it. It became known only after he became Chief Minister and then Prime Minister. Now that it is public, he will talk about it when asked, on the grounds that it is "not my personal property" but an experience that might help someone. He ties this to his claim that his life "has always been devoted to the well-being of others."

His main example comes from a bilateral meeting with President Obama at the White House after he became Prime Minister. Obama had arranged a formal dinner. Modi recalls an exchange between the two delegations in which someone pointed out that "the Prime Minister doesn’t eat." In his account, this worried the hosts, who wondered how to receive the leader of a major nation without serving food. At the table he was given a glass of hot water and joked to Obama:

Look, my dinner has arrived

Modi says Obama remembered on a later visit and told him, “Last time you were fasting, this time we’re having lunch. Since you’re not fasting, you’ll have to eat twice as much.” The whole episode is Modi's own recollection. This part of the interview has no other account of it.

Fridman turns to Modi's early life. He frames it as a rise from humble beginnings to leading "the world’s largest democracy." He describes a family of very modest means living in a one-room house with a mud floor, and asks how that shaped Modi's outlook. Modi starts with place, not hardship. He was born in Vadnagar, a small town in Mehsana district in North Gujarat, and had his early schooling there.

He says the town's history first reached him through an elder who told schoolchildren to bring any carved or inscribed stone they found and leave it in a corner of the school. His curiosity grew from there, and talk at school turned up more about the past. He says he later read in a newspaper that China had made a film mentioning "the Chinese philosopher Hiuen Tsang," who had spent a considerable amount of time in his village "many centuries ago," when it was a major centre of Buddhist learning. He dates its time as a prominent Buddhist educational hub hesitantly: "perhaps around the 1400s." This part of the interview does not reconcile that date with the visit he describes.

He lists other layers of the town's history: a victory monument from the 12th century, a temple from the 17th century, and two sisters, Tana and Riri, renowned musicians of the 16th century. He says that as Chief Minister he started large-scale excavations there. According to him, the findings confirmed that thousands of Buddhist monks once studied in Vadnagar, and that Buddhist, Jain and Hindu traditions "co-existed harmoniously."

Every stone spoke. Every wall had a story to tell

His strongest claim is about continuity. He says the excavations found evidence going back 2,800 years, "proving that this city has remained unbroken and eternal for all those 2,800 years," with solid proof of how it developed over the centuries. He adds that an international-level museum has been set up there, open to visitors and especially to archaeology students, and that the site has become a major area of study. No excavation reports or sources are cited in the conversation. These are Modi's descriptions of work started while he was in office.

Modi links his birthplace to his political base. He calls it his "good fortune" to have been born in such a place, and says "some things in life unfold beyond our understanding." Kashi, also known as Benares or Varanasi, became what he calls his "realm of duty." Like Vadnagar, he describes it as an "eternal city" that has stayed alive for centuries. He offers a tentative explanation: "Perhaps it was some divine design" that brought a boy from Vadnagar to Kashi, "living in the embrace of Mother Ganga." He presents this as a personal reflection, not a historical argument.

On his household, Modi says his father, mother, siblings, uncles, aunts and grandparents grew up together in a small house, likely smaller than the room where the interview was taking place, with "no window, just a small door." He accepts that by the standards used in public life, his early years were spent in "extreme poverty." But he denies that it felt that way at the time. He does not explicitly confirm or discuss the mud floor Fridman mentioned.

we never really felt the burden of poverty.

His argument rests on comparison. Someone used to fine shoes misses them when they are gone. But "we had never worn shoes in our lives," so the family had nothing to compare against. He says this lack of a reference point, not any material comfort, kept the hardship from feeling like hardship.

He then describes his parents. He calls his father extremely hardworking and disciplined. His father left home around 4:00 or 4:30 AM, walked long distances, visited several temples and then went to his shop, working late into the night. His handmade village leather shoes made a "tock, tock, tock" sound, and Modi says villagers claimed they could tell the time by his footsteps: “Oh, yes,” they would say, “Mr. Damodar is on his way.” He says his mother made sure the children never felt the strain of their circumstances.

The shoe theme comes back in a specific story. On the way to school, an uncle saw him barefoot, was surprised, and bought him white canvas shoes that "must have cost around 10 or 12 rupees." They stained quickly. So after school, Modi says, he went from classroom to classroom collecting chalk the teachers had thrown away, soaked it in water, and used the paste to polish the shoes white again.

For me, those shoes were a treasured possession, a symbol of great wealth

He links his habits of neatness to his mother's strict attention to cleanliness, though he admits he is "not sure" how he took up dressing neatly. With no way to iron clothes, he says he heated water in a copper pot, held it with tongs, and pressed his clothes himself before school. He sums up those years as carefree and hardworking, without complaint, and without judging how others lived.