JRE MMA Show #47 with Tyson Fury

00:00Boom! And we're live. How are you brother? What's going on? I'm good. Good to see you. Pull this sucker up to you. Boom. How's that? Boom. Good. I'm very excited about your fight, man. Very excited. Not as excited as I am to be here. I'm sure. How often is it that two undefeated, I mean, you're not a heavyweight champ because they stripped you, but you never lost. two undefeated heavyweight champions go at it like this. This is a huge fight. Very much so. It's never, ever happened before, ever. It's pretty exciting. Someone too as big as us. I've never, ever fought each other. What do you think of, I mean, for people who don't know, you're fighting Deontay Wilder, who's an American undefeated knockout artist, and you are probably one of the more interesting guys in the heavyweight division, not just because of your personality, but your skill set, the way you move.

00:55you're long and tall but you got great footwork and you're fast you know it's a very very interesting fight as far as like boxing technique it's power raw power versus boxing skill two guys one six foot nine one six foot seven both charismatic both talkers one british one american it doesn't get any bigger than this this is the biggest fight that could be made at this time in the heavyweight division or in the world of boxing when you watch deontay wilder move around there's nobody that moves like that guy so odd like it reminds me of bambi on ice he doesn't really find his legs underneath him no sometimes he throws and he's got no legs underneath them he's just he's swinging and literally he's flying through the air as he's punching I've seen him fall over a few times as well yeah listen the guy tries to land that big punch and yeah when you're trying

01:44to knock people out with every single punch then if you miss it becomes a problem and you go off balance and maybe fall over. Yeah. Were you impressed with him in the Louis Ortiz fight? I was impressed with him because he came back. Yeah. And he was losing all the rounds. I only gave Wilder the rounds that he knocked Ortiz down in. So he'd done well. It was his acid test, so to say, come through. Ortiz is 49 years old. At least. At least. Albeit he was past his prime age, but still undefeated champion going in. So it was a great victory for Deontay Wilder. And he proved to me that he can come back, get hurt, come back and win a fight. Yeah, and Ortiz comes from that Cuban system. He's got great skills. And he's looked fantastic in every single fight other than that fight up until that moment that he got hit. Yeah, look, you can't go swimming and not get wet.

02:35Ortiz had over 300 amateur fights, 20-odd professional fights, nearly knocked them all out. But if I may be critical of Luis Ortiz at this minute, he stood in front of Deontay Wilder right in punching range. which is not a wise decision considering a guy's had 39 kos yeah and his movement he was trying to move a little bit but he was on old legs and I know a story what happened before that fight lewis ortiz had very bad blood pressure and doctor was going to pull him out and he had charles martin on standby but he said no I need the money so he went in and fought anyway and he still nearly beat wilder he had high blood pressure that's interesting where are you hearing this from Good sources. Good sources. Yeah. Those are the best sources. Always the best. Inside info. You're an interesting story, man, not just because of your personality,

03:25but because you've come back from mental illness, and you're very, very open about it. Yeah. I think that's a very unique thing. I remember when you beat Klitschko and won the title, and then you kind of went off the rails. And I thought you were just partying. You know when when I heard about it, I thought well guy made a shitload of money became the heavyweight champion All the pressure in the press and all the craziness, but it was more than that It was more than that. It started off like I'd suffered with mental health problems my whole life But I didn't know what it was because I never had no education on the matter And it wasn't till after the Klitschko fight a very massive high Then I had to have a even worse or low lowest low that anyone could ever have I'd wake up and I think why did I wake up this morning this is coming from a man who had everything money, fame, glory, titles

04:18a wife, a family, kids, everything but I felt as if I had nothing I felt there was an empty gaping hole that was just filled with gloom and doom and it just was one bad thing happened to me after another within seven days the IBF stripped me of their title because I couldn't defend against Glasgow who was a nobody because I had a rematch clause for Vladimir But the IBF wasn't expecting me to beat Vladimir. So they took that clause in there anyway, thinking Vladimir is going to win a defender against Glasgow. But because I won, they stripped me of the belt, which was none of my reason. Within seven days of the fight? Yeah. That's insane. Yeah. How can they require you to fight within seven days? No, they didn't, but they required me to go into negotiations. And you didn't. So just not going into negotiations to sign, they stripped you within seven days?

05:06Yeah, but they knew I couldn't go into negotiations because of a rematch clause. Boxing's a dirty business. So I was stuck in between a rock and a hard place. Yeah. And that's what happened. That was one belt gone. And then my team and Klitschko's team were carrying on about where the fight was going to be. It was going to be on a cruise ship in Dubai. It was going to be here. It was going to be there. Time was dragging on. A cruise ship? A cruise ship, yeah. There was some Arab billionaire who wanted to make this fight an exclusive fight for him and his buddies. No. Yeah. Come on. Seriously. This fight was heading for a cruise ship. That fucking oil money, man. They've got some money. But listen, if they can afford it, do it. That's what I say. That would have been the most hilarious scenario ever for a world heavyweight title fight. A bunch of Arab billionaires on a cruise ship. Wow.

05:59So they strip you of the IBF belt. You go in a negotiation with Klitschko for the rematch. How come the rematch never happens? The rematch didn't happen initially because I went over on my ankle in training. I was in Holland training for the rematch, and I was running up on heavy terrain, and I went over on my ankle, spraying my ankle quite badly, so we had to postpone the fight. But by the time I was off, like, say, three months, getting his ankle right and all that, I just didn't want to do it anymore, if you know what I mean. I didn't have the desire. The fire wasn't burning no longer to fight. and I was suffering with depression the whole time. Even in training camp, before I sprained my ankle, I was depressed, as depressed could be, on a daily basis. And I'm thinking, why am I feeling like this? I don't have no reason to feel like it.

06:43Some people will say, oh, well, it's attention-seeking or whatever. But unless you've experienced what I'm saying, it's sort of impossible to understand where I've been or where I've come from. And it just went from bad to worse. I hit the drink heavily on a daily basis. I hit the drugs. I was out all night partying with women the other night and not coming home. And, you know, I didn't care about boxing. I didn't care about living. I just wanted to die. I was going to have a good time doing it while I was doing it. I used to drink and take drugs to get away from the depression because when I was drunk or high, then I wouldn't think about being depressed. I thought about being a boxing champion or I feel great. But as we know, when the drink wears off, it only leaves you with a bad hangover and feeling even more depressed. For someone who suffers with mental health,

07:33the worst thing we can do to escape it is take drugs or alcohol. But yeah, that's the most common approach. And that's the common approach because people, we don't know, because it's not spoke about. And this is where I want to spread the word on mental health. So when other people are in this position in the future, they know where to go and they know what to do because there's a blueprint. Well, kudos to you for doing that, because so few people have the courage to talk about their struggles when they go through that because it seems like a weakness. It's very powerful that you're willing to do that and just be open and honest about it. There's a few people out there that are doing that now. Our friend Mauro Ranallo, he's gone through some serious mental health issues and he's very open about it and talks about it quite a bit. Now, when you were training for the first Klitschko fight,

08:23before the fight rather, did you have it then? Not really, no, but I was set focused on what I wanted to do. And that was beat Vladimir Klitschko. And I believe when you've got a goal in mind from being a child all your life, and you do that, then I was like, I was lost. I was almost like I didn't have anything more to do in my life. Although I could have carried on and defended the belts and whatever, I wasn't really interested in doing that. I'd beat the man I'd always wanted to do. Because when I was an amateur boxer, I used to watch Vladimir Klitschko on TV as a world heavyweight champion and I always aimed, he was my target to beat and when I finally beat him it was like climbing my Everest I didn't have anything more to prove and the fire was dead, there was no fire, I was forcing myself to fight and I always said I didn't want to be one of those people who just fought for money

09:15because there's plenty of people with money in the world, plenty of them but who knows them and the reasons for me fighting it's not for money or for belts or glory I fight because I don't know anything else I've always been a fighter from being born to being 30 years old now it's all I love to do I don't have any other passion I've looked the Lord knows I've looked and if I had anything else I was good at or I could do I'd be doing it I just I tried retirement I was 27 I retired under the second man in boxing heavyweight history to retire unbeaten as a world champion like Rocky Marciano before me. But it wasn't enough. I was like, I am lost without this fight game. I tried golfing. I tried clay pigeon shooting. I tried four by four in. I tried going to strip clubs, bars, restaurants, everything. And it was just like I had this emptiness inside where I just wanted to fight.

10:09Well, in comparison to what you've accomplished, everything else has to seem pretty dull. I mean, you step into the ring with Vladimir Klitschko, who was widely considered to be one of the greatest heavyweights ever and you boxed his face off. I mean, that was a beautiful performance. It was. You shot him down. It was weird. It was weird to watch him. It's like there was moments in that fight where he just looked like he didn't know what to do with you. And we're going to see it again on December 1st. Like I said to Vladimir, I said the same thing to Deontay Wilder. You fought the Americans. You fought the Mexicans. You fought the Europeans. But you ain't never fought the Gypsy King before. I said it straight to Vladimir. I said, you're looking at a king. I said, have you ever fought a king before? He said, no. I said, will you fight him one now?

10:52And he said, you're going to lose to one. Well, he's lost before, but he's lost because he got clipped and hurt and stopped. And I was very impressed with him, actually, in the Anthony Joshua fight because he came back from getting badly hurt and almost put Joshua away. But the fight with you is different because you just outboxed him. And he was known as the guy who would box and hold, jab and hold. I mean, he was one of the most boring heavyweights of all time. Fantastically successful. But from a spectator point of view, you watch some of his fights, you're like, Jesus Christ. He would jab you, grab you, jab you, grab you. I mean, that was his thing. Right hand, grab you. It worked. He had 25 title defenses. Yeah, I mean, it was very successful. But that shit didn't work with you. It didn't.

11:36For the first time in his whole career, he was fighting somebody who was not just bigger than him, but more athletic, who could move more. Yeah. Someone who wasn't just looking for one lucky punch. I knew going into the Vladimir fight that everybody, all the rest of the opponents, them 25 men before me, had all went in trying to do the same thing, trying to knock him out. And he's got something of a weird defence where he puts both arms out in front of him. And it's almost very awkward to land on that chin with big punches. So I thought, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to make that mistake. I'm going to outbox him. And all my team said, this is not a good idea. we've got to go to Germany to try and outbox a super champion and try and win on the cards are you crazy I said yes I said but if I wasn't crazy I wouldn't be great and I went over there and

12:22outboxed him and nobody nobody apart from my brother or my father thought I could do it you know even people who were close to me in camp they were like they were very unsure of what was going to happen and me being me I always had that little smile on my face because I believed it I believed I could always beat Vladimir Klitschko. I even told Vladimir years before when I was 22, I said, I'll beat you one day. Emmanuel Stewart told him too, God rest his soul. He said, Tyson Fury is the heir to the throne. He said, when his time is ready, he will beat you. Straight to him. Vladimir hated that. He hated Emmanuel talking about me like that. But he'd done it either way. Well, I'm sure it was good fire under him during training as well. now you you were focused for that fight you were you were prepared and afterwards was it just the

13:19realization that you had accomplished this incredible goal that set into depression was it you didn't know what to do next or was it just that your focus was now no longer on this unattainable you know like almost insurmountable obstacle in front of you becoming the heavyweight champion of the world all of a sudden you did it then the depression kicks in yeah my conditioning trainer christian he said to me before the klitschko fight he said what will you do after you win I said probably be depressed for a long time he said what I said truthfully I was almost expecting it and I didn't think I'd have a box again even the day after the klitschko fight sky sports interviewed me, the UK broadcaster who put it on. And he said, what's next for Tyson Fury? I said, I'll probably never box again. I knew. I said to my dad and my brothers before the fight,

14:11a week before the fight, I said, win, lose or draw. I said, this is probably going to be my last fight. Because I knew the fire was going. I didn't have that hunger anymore. I had the hunger to beat Vladimir Klitschko, but not to carry on and continue. And I said, I didn't want it to be about money or financial gain. I wanted to be the best of my time, beat the best man and that's what I did and I was a man of my word I didn't box again until two and a half year later I decided to make a comeback because I was sitting here at 400 pounds a drug addict an alcoholic by the way I'd never took a drug in my life until I got to 27 really never not smoked weed not not nothing and what drug free drugs what were the drugs of choice once you won the title? Cocaine was the usual one. And that was it, really. Cocaine and alcohol. It's like... Rollercoaster. Crazy drug and alcohol mix. Yeah.

15:07But, you know, I look back on it now and I think, would I change that? I wouldn't. Not many people will think, well, this man's crazy for saying that on a radio show, but I wouldn't change a thing because I know it was supposed to happen and I needed to be tested to see what type of character I was. although I did all those mad things and I went through all that time and I tried to commit suicide and I how'd you try to commit suicide well I'll tell you what happened I like I said I was waking up and I didn't want to be alive I was making everybody's life a misery everybody was close to me was pushing away nobody could talk to me talk any sense into me at all and I'd go very very very low at times very low and I'd start thinking all these crazy thoughts and this, that and the other. And I was in my car. I bought a brand new Ferrari convertible in the summer of 2016.

16:03And I was in it and I was on the highway and there's a strip of the highway where I am and at the bottom of about a five mile strip there's a massive bridge that crosses the motorway. And I knew that. And I got the car up to 190 miles an hour. I was heading towards that bridge and I didn't care what no one was thinking. I didn't care about hurting my family, me career, people who friends, anybody, I didn't care. I didn't care about nothing, I just wanted to die so bad. I'd give up on life and just as I was heading towards that bridge at 190 in this Ferrari, it'd have crushed like a coke can by the way for the bit, I heard a voice say no, don't do this Tyson, think about your kids, think about your family and your little boys and girls growing up with no father and everyone saying your dad was a weak man he left you he took the easy way out

16:54because he couldn't do anything about it and before I turned into the bridge I pulled on the motor when I was shaking I could feel myself shaking and I pulled over and I was all nervous and I didn't know what to do I was frightened and I was so afraid and I thought that day I'll never ever ever try or think about taking my own life ever again and I didn't I went and got help from a the leading psychiatrist doctor in the UK. And my dad went up with me and she said to my dad, she said, can I have a word alone with you, John? He said, yeah. My dad told me what she said when he came out. She said, he is not to be trusted alone. He's an imminent death risk. That's the highest level of suicide risk that she'd ever assisted. And she said, without his faith, he would have been dead a long time ago. But she said, faith alone ain't going to hold him Because that's going to break.

17:49And once that goes, he's done. So that put my dad's life terror as well, because he was checking up on me all the time. He wanted to be with me 24-7. He was even sleeping in my house with me. A married man with four kids. I was in a right state. I just... I just... I wanted... I just didn't want to live anymore. And I had everything that man could want. There wasn't nothing I didn't have. But it meant nothing. Nothing meant anything. I felt worthless. And the longer it went on, the more it hurt inside, and the more I was hurting everybody. Everybody gave up on me. My full family thought I was definitely going to die, and I was going to kill myself. And after that, I was thinking to myself, you know what, I need to get better, I need to do something. But every time I tried to go to the gym, I had another voice saying that. This ain't four-alls anymore. I'm not going to do this.

18:40I didn't want to do it. I'd run 200 yards and pull up. I wouldn't even get a mile. I think, oh, I can't be bothered. I don't want to do this. Boxing is not for me. I hated boxing at one stage. In 2016, early 17, I wouldn't have done a boxing fight for this room full of diamonds. No way. I hated boxing. I wouldn't watch it on the TV. I wouldn't read about it. I hated boxing. I'd done it my whole life, and I didn't want no part of it anymore. And I was out drinking. I didn't care. I gave up. Taking drugs, like I said. and it come to a point I was doing that for 18 months of my life and I was out 2017 Halloween I was a £400 dressed up as a skeleton and I go to this fancy dress party and I'm looking around and I'm thinking these are all young kids compared to me I'm 30 and I feel like I was the oldest guy in there like 29 I was like what am I doing here is this what you want for your life

19:36and I thought to myself this is not me and no matter how many people told me before this where I was going wrong, what I was doing, you need to act to your life. You can only change your life if you want to change it. And I left and everyone said, are you going home early? I said, yeah. I left at nine o'clock, I went home. And I got back home, I didn't say anything to the wife, I went straight upstairs into a dark room. And I took the stupid skeleton suit off. And I was sat there. And I got on my knees and I was praying and begging God to help me. and at this point I'd never I'd never begged or cried to God to help me before, I'd prayed a lot all my life, but I'd never been in this physical state before I could feel tears running down my face my chest was wet with tears because I knew I couldn't do it on my own, it wasn't possible for me because I'd tried and tried and tried

20:30and ended up back in the pub, back drinking I almost accepted that that was going to be my fate, an alcoholic so I was on my knees in this bedroom and after praying for about 10 minutes I got up and I felt the weight of the world was lifted off my shoulders and for the first time in years I knew I was going to make a comeback and I called my wife, I said Paris, Paris, she said what? she thought I was drunk coming home from the pub I said Monday morning I start to regain mission to try and get the heavyweight championship of the world back she said yeah yeah yeah because before this every time I'd have a beer I'd come back and I'm going to be the heavyweight champion of the world again because it was it was the alcohol talking so I was like the man who called wolf a thousand times on this this stupid career that I that I was

21:23living on the past thinking about years before glory days and after this prayer I got up I said all right this is going to be she didn't believe me one second but even when I speak to her now she says, that night you told me that, she said, I hear a difference in your voice, something happened, next day I phoned up Ben Davison, and I said, I don't want to go back down the old route with the same trainer, same promoter, same anything, I said, everything's got to change, I said, it's going to be a new Tyson Fury, and we called it Return of the Mack Mission, and as I went out that morning, after phoning Ben and arranging everything, I went out for a run in my sweatsuit, I had ambitions of running two miles, I got about five minutes into the run and stopped. And I walked. And while I was walking, I thought, I can't run, I'm too fat, 400 pounds.

22:16But I thought, I'm going to walk, I'm going to get out and walk. While I was walking, I was flicking through on my phone on Instagram. And I sees this video of Deontay Wilder saying, yep, Tyson Fury's finally done that. Because the week before, I'd been at a boxing show in Manchester or something. And the press took a picture of me. And it was like everywhere, this big, fat, out of shape, ugly, bald-headed, bearded, white as a sheep man. I was like a state. And he'd done this video. Yep, after seeing this evidence of Tyson Fury, I finally know he's finished. He can never come back. And even if I would have fought him in his A-Day, I'd have knocked him out. And before that, he was talking about Mike Tyson, how he'd knocked Mike Tyson out and around. and I thought to myself that's very disrespectful to talk about someone who's not even from your era

23:05and wanting to fight them and all that sort of stuff when there's no possible chance so I thought to myself you know what if I ever do fight you I'm going to give it to you for that reason and then when I saw this other video of him saying things about me and I couldn't come back and that he gave me that much more motivation to return just so I can beat Deontay Wilder so I had all his court cases on as well I was being charged with taking performance enhancing drugs It was Nandrolone, something I'd never done. I had Nandrolone in my system. It's produced naturally in the body. But they say my levels were elevated. The UK AD, UK anti-doping said there was no case to answer. But all of a sudden, I had a big WADA case on me. That took nearly three years to sort out. And everyone said, you're getting your hat nailed on here, son. You're getting a 12-year ban. And I said, you know what?

23:5412-year ban for Nandrolone? 12 years, not just for Nandrolone. I refused them as well. I was in a bad mood one day and the drug testing people come in the gym and I told them to fuck off. This is when you were training for your comeback? This was when I was out of training, yeah. All the time I was fat and out of shape and not training, I was still being random drug tested by UKAD. Really? That's why I tested positive twice for cocaine. And everyone said, no, you're never getting back. The Boxing Water Control suspended my license in the UK for the cocaine use. So I had a court case looking at ban forever, basically. Spension. The doctor made me medically unfit to fight. So that was after I forgot about that bit. When I was rescheduling the Klitschko to fight, this psychiatrist phoned up and she says, look, he is medically unfit. He can't fight anybody. He don't want to live.

24:49Never mind fight. So I was medically deemed unfit to box, suspended by the Boxing Board of Control for the cocaine use. And I had an antralone case on me. and a refusal case. And by the way, it was racking up millions of dollars in lawyer's fees too. But I was so confident that I was going to, everything was going to be okay because when I was down on my knees, I just knew that it was going to be okay. And everyone was like, what's the point in training and doing anything with you when you're not, you can't do anything. You're not in a position to do it. I said, everything's going to be all right. Don't worry. Court case comes along in December. We go, they say, right, this court case is dragged on, insufficient evidence. Get rid of it. We both agreed that we was going to call quits on the case. I go my way, they go theirs. They pay their legal fees, I pay my legal fees. Done.

25:36That was a drugs case out the window, finished. The suspension. I had a meeting with the Board of Control in the UK and they said, look, if you can get passed medically fit by a doctor mentally, then we'll reassess your case until then denied. So I said, right, no problem. phoned up the psychiatrist the same people who we'd who had spoke to all these doctors three or four different doctor phil's dr jones whoever else said right I need I need reassessing reassess me bang passed flying colors I went back to the board of control handed in my certificate by all these different doctors examinations physical and mental they said we have no other choice but to give you your license reinstated bang so it was three of the biggest obstacles in my life at once were all done within a month or two straight away then I just had the easy task of losing uh 160

26:28pounds which if I could have got over all them other things losing weight as a fighter was something that I'd done natural anyway so then me and ben set about losing this 160 pounds and on the way back I spoke to frank warren he became my promoter and frank said right you've had a long time out the ring you've abused your body let's get your four or five comeback fights just so you're ready. I said, okay, no problem. Had the one combat fight, had the other combat fight. I said to Frank, I don't need any more combat fights. Make the Wilder fight now. No, no, no, no, no. He said, let's have a couple more just in case. I said, I'm telling you, make the Wilder fight. So this is where people don't understand. I've picked Deontay Wilder. He didn't pick me. I picked him. Well, he needs a high-profile opponent right now because it looks like, I mean,

27:18I don't want to say that Joshua was ducking him, but it looked like he did. I'll say that. Yeah. There's something going on. Whether it's his management or his promoter, they didn't seem to want that fight right away. I know some quite close details on that. What is the detail? The details is, Wilder's team offered Joshua's team $80 million for a two-fight deal, $50 million for the first fight, and $30 million for the rematch if Joshua lost. and they declined that. And my lawyer, Robert Davis, he saw proof of funds from Al Heyman. So Eddie Erne and his chum buddies can all say this, that and the other, but I know the truth because proof of funds were seen. Do you think it's because of when Klitschko knocked him down and had him hurt, they were worried about Deontay with his big power? I don't think it's about Eva Fyter. It's bigger than that. It's about money.

28:15About keeping the money rolling in. Keeping the golden goose laying them eggs, looking after it. don't take any risks. The thing is, with Anthony Joshua, he's an Olympic gold medalist and in the UK, he's a massive star. He sells out stadiums, 70,000, 90,000. Huge star. Huge star. So why would you want to get him beat by somebody who nobody's really heard of? Or even take a risk of it. They took the risk in the Klitschko fight. It almost didn't pay off. Right. They scraped through skin of the teeth. But he done it, fair play. He got up off the canvas, showed a champion's heart to come back and knock out Klitschko. Fair play. But since then, they haven't remotely stepped up at all. They fought Joseph Parker, and he didn't knock Joseph Parker out. He didn't even hurt Joseph Parker. He fought Carlos Takam. Had a hard fight with him. Had a hard fight. Hard fight.

29:05So they're just keeping that money train going. Right. And I don't blame them because this is the business at the end of the day. And if I was his management team, I'd say stay away from Fury, stay away from Wilder, and we'll just fight the rest of the people and keep making plenty of money. Why do we need to fight these guys who are very risky for maybe a little bit more than we're getting now, two times more? Right. But in the long run, we can have five fights and not get beat by mediocre people who we know he's going to beat and get the same money or more. So it doesn't make sense. So this is why me and Wild have agreed to fight because at one time or another, it's got to be more than about money. Like, we're fighters. We're everywhere champions of the world. of course we've made money in our careers I've had 28 professional fights 27 professional fights

29:51I've made money, it's about more than money now surely, if I spend the money I've already earned, waste it, then I'm stupid then 200 million would be no good to me because I'd spend it anyway my dad always says the feeling of his money is very easily parted, but that's another story for another day going back onto this fight, we owe it to the fans to give them a proper fight of two so-called people who think they're the best. Let's prove it. It wasn't a hard negotiation thing on this deal, neither with me and Wilder. I hope he don't mind and I hope his team don't mind me saying that they were the most fairest, most straight-going people I've ever worked with. There was no ifs, buts, or maybes. Whatever I asked for, they agreed, and whatever he asked for, I've agreed to. There was no hard negotiations. It was very, very simple. Wilder clearly seems to want to prove that he's the best.

30:44And I've got to admire him for that. Yeah, I admire that as well. I mean, he's got a title. He's undefeated. He's smashing everybody they put in front of him. And he has a legacy on his mind. He wants to leave a real legacy. This is why he looked to fight you. Yeah, I believe that. I've got to give Deontay Wilder a lot of credit and respect for that and admiration because it seems to be that he was the only man at the time, before I was even come back, who was willing to risk everything he's got to prove he's the best. And isn't that what fighting's about? where men want to prove they're the best of all the others. No, he's absolutely behaving like a true champion. I mean, that's what fans want. They want a guy like that and a guy like you. I've got to admire him because to pick me, a 6'9 mover who's slick and fast and can do awkward things, that's an awkward fight for him.

31:34He could have picked much easier opponents and made similar money. But he didn't. He opted for the toughest one, the most awkward test. I respect him for that, and I take my heart off to him. Well, I think this is going to be a giant fight. I really do, because this is what everybody's been wanting for a long time. It's so difficult to get people excited about the heavyweight division. I mean, Joshua's a giant fan in the UK, but worldwide... Not so much. Not so much. And Deontay Wilder, even though he's had these spectacular results, he needs that big thing to put him over the top. The Ortiz fight helped, but he needs something more to capture the real, the love of the American public, the love of the world. He just hasn't quite grabbed it yet. He hasn't. And I do feel sorry for him in a way because he has had 40 professional fights and knocked out nearly everybody. It's been crazy.

32:27He should be a huge superstar. He should be, but he's not. I go down the street, wherever I am, New York, Los Angeles, Big Bear, and if I have 50 people who's Deontay Wilder, maybe one might even recognize the name. And someone even said, I recognize the name. Is he a ball player? Is he a hockey player? I said, no, he's heavyweight champion of the world. It's crazy because he's a flashy dresser. He's a great talker. He knocks people into another fucking dimension. He's a wild guy to watch fight. He's very exciting. It's just he's got all the – he's just waiting for the big moment. and maybe this fight is the big moment for one of you. It is. I do think it's something to do with the heavyweight division that's been in Europe for the last 15 years. Yeah, and been put to sleep. I believe that too. The thing about Klitschko is even though he was very, very successful

33:18and his style was amazing in terms of his success rate, god damn those fights were boring to watch. Nobody gave a shit about those fights. Not outside Europe, but in Germany he was a global phenomenon. Well, they were just happy he lived in Germany and was speaking German. He'd sell out $50,000, $60,000 fighting a nobody. It was a wonderful investment for him. I mean, no disrespect to him. He's a great boxer for sure. But boxing is entertainment as well as sport, especially for the casual person. I mean, if I watch a great boxer just box well and play it safe, I can be very impressed with that. But the average person is not going to be impressed. You're not going to get those pay-per-view dollars. 100%. Look, I can't sit here and pretend that most of my fights have been the most exciting fights in the world. Because my biggest fight of my whole career was a 12-round snooze fest.

34:16I'm man enough to say that. I am a man of honor. And I will tell you the truth. I can't even watch that fight back. It was that boring. I didn't think it was boring. It was to boxing people who know boxing, they know how hard what I was doing is to do as a heavyweight and the skill and all that. But like you say, to the average Joe, who knows nothing about boxing, who wants to see two big men punch the shit out of each other, it was a boring fight. So that's why Joshua gets more credit for his win over Klitschko. Even though he got put down and nearly knocked out than I did, Klitschko didn't land the glove on me because their fight was 50-50 and it was knocking lumps off each other. But my fight was like 80-20 in my favour where I didn't get touched. But that still was spectacular. It was. Watching it as a fight fan. First of all, it was no disrespect to Klitschko,

35:03but it was like finally, finally somebody figured this dude out. Because there had been moments where people had tested him a little bit, but it had been a long time before somebody had beaten him. It had. It had been 11 years. But that hasn't always been my style, boxing on the back foot, slipping and sliding. I'll adjust to different opponents. Vladimir had dynamite in his right hand regardless of his boring style or whatever if you made a mistake once in that fight you get knocked out Eddie Chambers so many Samuel Peters everybody the list goes on and on and on everybody knocked out 65 knockouts and he would make you desperate because of that style because that jab and grab style people would get desperate and they would open themselves up and then get knocked out and I didn't want to be on that list of knockouts but I've been in fights where it's been total wars

35:58for as long as the fight lasted I.e. the Steve Cunningham fight in 2013 I come out of here all confident run straight on to an overhand right hand down I was looking up at Madison Square Garden roof the lights and I thought fuck me it's now back to the farm boy get up Was Cunningham a difficult opponent because he was shorter than you? Cunningham believe it or not this is going to sound strange Cunningham was the hardest fight I ever did have in my whole career, amateur or professional. The reason being, he was very slippery. The way I explain Cunningham, he was like a conger eel all full of oil in front of me. I couldn't pin him down. He was light on his feet. He was weighing 208 pounds or something. He was a cruiserweight, right? He was a three-time cruiserweight champion of the world and he stepped up into heavyweights. He was a slick, talented boxer

36:44and I tried to walk him down, use my size and power, but he was just out boxing me. what I'm good at boxing, moving, slipping and sliding I couldn't do against Steve Cunningham because he was quicker than me he was like he was a better boxer all round than me I couldn't do nothing with him and he'd knock me over even though he was a light puncher supposedly I walked right onto it come from the back of the hole dig over and right right in the chin and I thought this is it the US debut have been knocked out I thought Tyson Fury get up and kick his ass so I got up and I just went straight forward at him and I thought no more boxing now I'm going to hit him round the body put him up through the middle round the corners you might be ahead on point but sooner or later I'm going to get you and I did in round seven I felt him going weak because I was pushing him back pushing him back

37:34and he's hitting me gloves and hitting me face and hitting me everywhere basically but I walked right through everything with me guard up and after he got tired I hit him with a heavy body shot in round seven and he didn't recover and I pushed his head back and knocked him clean out with the right hand that was the only time he was ever knocked out in his career, even to today. It seemed like in that fight, perhaps one of the more difficult things was adjusting to the fact that he was so much smaller than you. Six foot three he was, yeah. Yeah. Didn't you were just, it took you a while to adjust to that. Like I say, I'm not going to make any excuses. Steve Cunningham was a better boxer than me. He's a very good fighter. Yeah. I mean, a small guy for the heavyweight division, but a very good fighter. Very good. Like I say, the toughest man I ever faced was Steve Cunningham.

38:16That's a high praise. So when you decided that you were going to make this comeback and you're dealing with all this these mental health struggles What did you do to overcome the mental health problems? What did you do to overcome the depression? Like I say when I got up off that floor I had a weight lifted off me And I had my mind set for the first time in two years that I wanted to do something again I think the way to beat mental health is setting goals giving yourself short-term and long-term goals and that's what I did. That's very interesting. I gave myself a goal of losing the weight pound by pound basically. I'd set myself a 10 pound target and I'd reach that and then I'd set myself another 10 pound, 15 pound, whatever. And I'd give myself little rewards and stuff. I wasn't obviously eating junk food and I was on a strict diet for six months

39:08and I was training twice a day, six, seven days a week. But with the mental health, I don't suffer with mental health when I'm active and when I've got a goal. And I think most people will vouch for this. If you suffer with mental health problems, you tend to suffer them when you're on your own, when you've got a lot of time to think and when you're not doing much. But when you're busy on a daily basis, you don't have enough time to think about mental health. And I figured out if I exhaust myself in the gym, I come on when I'm too tired to think about anything. I just want to get some food and go to bed. So that's what I do. So you didn't use medication? I didn't use medication, no. Wow. I was prescribed medication from the doctor, but I refused to take it. I took a couple of pills, helped myself relax from the doctor, but I never took them again. I only ever took a couple.

40:02What did they give you? I think it was either diazepam or triazepam or something like that. Some antidepressant. Some antidepressant pill, yeah. But I'd done research on them, and I didn't like what I was seeing. and I knew my grandfather, my dad's dad he was addicted to pills his whole life pills that didn't even do anything for him they was placebo pills but without him he couldn't function so I didn't want to become one of them my granddad would take pills and they didn't do anything to him but in his own mind he thought they were doing something calming him down and I didn't want to be one of them people there was a point in my life where I hand on heart thought I was going to end up in a padded room. That's how bad it was. But it's fascinating that you're saying that setting goals and setting your mind on things and hard training is what set you back on track.

40:59Now, I don't know what you're like when there's no one in front of you, but standing here in front of you right now, I would say this is a healthy, vibrant guy. 100%. I've never felt better. Mentally strong, physically. I've trained in hard. I feel fit as a fiddle. You know, I wouldn't be here if I was anything wrong with me. But that's fascinating that most people think that to come back from a mental health issue like yours, you need psychiatric care and you need medication. And you're saying you did it with setting goals and hard work. And the biggest thing we're missing here is I didn't do it with doctors and all them type of things. I done it with something way more powerful. God. So your faith and your belief. My faith and belief that God would make me better made me better. Somebody who don't have any faith will think, oh, this is nonsense or whatever, but I'm living proof.

41:51Well, if you believe in something, just like you were talking about believing in pills that don't do anything, belief is a powerful thing. Who knows what's behind that belief? But what you're saying is so powerful that you just by virtue of changing the way you think about things, setting goals, working hard, you lifted yourself out of the worst depression of your life to the point where you were suicidal. 100%. And I never, ever went back to that from this day to that. And it's been well over 12 months. That's pretty amazing. I mean, it's just amazing. That's an amazing thing for people to hear because there's a lot of people that rely heavily on antidepressants and medication. They think that is the only way for them to be happy and for them to be not suicidal, not depressed. They need that medication. And for them to hear what you're saying, I think, is a very powerful thing.

42:44It is, but I'm no doctor. I'm not going to tell people to chuck away your pills and pray. but it doesn't do any harm. What I'm saying, give it a whirl. Give it a try. It can't hurt you. Set yourself some goals. Think positive and crack on. Do a bit of training. So from accomplishing your ultimate goal, beating Klitschko, becoming the heavyweight champion and then falling into this deep funk, do you think you had to go through all this to come back again? I think so, yeah. I believe I was being tested to see what type of man I was and what type of character I had. And, you know, even before the Depression, I didn't appreciate things. Nothing. Nothing was value to me. Even something I'd worked hard for. If I'd worked hard and saved up for a car, just say, for five minutes, it'd be okay, but then I wouldn't want it anymore. It was a piece of shit. So nothing mattered to me.

43:39I didn't value anything. Anything that I had and I'd worked hard for, and everyone knows, like, what I have is blood money because I pay for it with my face. And my body gets punched to pieces for what I have. So you'd think I'd appreciate things more than an X-Man, but I didn't appreciate nothing. I didn't appreciate anything. Anything I had or achieved, even world championships, anything, I thought, is that it? Is that all? Your whole life has been like this? Yeah, yeah. So I believe I was taught I was put down this road and I had to suffer all these things so I could understand when I had things good. like today. I'm happy that I'm breathing fresh air and that I'm sat here in a mentally stable way of thinking. I'm happy that I can go out and enjoy a dinner and just be normal, whatever that

44:29is. That's what I'm happy for. I'm one of the most, probably the most unique people you'll ever meet. I'm not orientated by material things and all that sort of stuff. It means nothing to me. I don't even care about glory and honour. I don't care about legacies. I don't care about winning titles or medals. It doesn't matter. But when I set my mind to doing something, I'll do it. And every single time I've ever set my mind to anything, I've done it. Even the unthinkable things, if I set my mind to, I've done it. I don't care about wanting what Deontay Wilder has in his position or whatever. I only want to beat him in a fight, that's it. You only want to beat him because it's so difficult. Not just that, because that's what I want to do. Because that's your goal. Set me goal, beating Deontay Wilder. So do you think that that's your future,

45:23is just setting goals and constantly trying to achieve those goals? I think I've got a bigger purpose now than boxing. Boxing's a sport and something I've made a living out of for a long time. But I think there's a bigger picture, bigger than winning any titles, bigger than winning any fights, any number of fights. I think my calling card in life is to spread the word on this. This disease, a silent killer, a killer that's so ferocious that you can't see it or feel it from the outside. You could be suffering right now, but I won't be able to see it because I can't see into your mind. It's just so unusual that someone has that solution, that hard work, dedication and setting goals is what lifted you out of the depression and made you appreciate life. and made you appreciate all the aspects of it. Yeah, I appreciate everything. You know, spending time with my family.

46:18I took it for granted before. I spend time with my family anytime I want. I couldn't put into words what I went through. But let me just say, I wouldn't wish what I went through on my worst enemy. Not that I have any enemies. But if I did, I wouldn't wish it on a soul. Because I know how hard it is. And I know a lesser person, maybe not have got through, and maybe not a man without faith, maybe would have took his own life. Now that you have gotten through, do you feel like you have the solution now to navigate the rest of your life? Yeah. And I know the secret for me, and everybody's will be different, but if I train every day and I'm staying in shape, then I'll be happy forever. The time I stop training, the time I balloon back up again, the time it all goes wrong again. And I know that.

47:07if you know something in your life then you don't do it and that's what I know it's like a diabetic if he goes and eats a lot of sugar he knows it's going to make him ill so we don't do it so as long as I always stay by them guidelines I know I'm going to be all right and that's how she wrote so as long as well that's the other thing too right the alcohol and the drugs exacerbate any sort of bad state that you have because you're going to feel like shit yeah I'm not teetotal right I've had a drink since I've been back I've been out with the lads I'd drinks whatever and but your goals are still set and strong yeah but that's really what it is yeah so from now on you just have to continually set goals in your life set goals whatever them goals might be they don't have to be massive goals but they can be

47:57anything really anything that I want to do or I want to achieve or I want to go someplace or whatever. And I worked towards it and set myself a goal. It's almost like a little treat or whatever. It's fascinating because no one's ever really connected that. I mean, people have made that connection in terms of like when they study happy people, one of the things they find about happy people is they're goal-oriented people. They set goals to accomplish those people. But nobody's ever really set that as a remedy for depression and for mental health issues. Setting goals, achieving those goals, that's the key to keep it going. I believe that's the case, yeah. After doing quite a lot of research on myself and experiencing it and it works for me and I find it works for a lot of people I speak to who's got the same problems. I get messages from all over the

48:41world from different types of sports people and different type of people asking for information and help and how I got through mine and what I did and I'm happy to help so if there's anybody out there who's struggling in silence which a lot of people are then I'm always here to help if I Well, it's such an impressive and inspiring message because you're doing it without medication. You're doing it just through positive thinking, through goal setting, and through healthy living. That's right. And I believe it's the best way to live anyway. Best way to live is fit and healthy. When you're out of shape and you feel unfit and you feel terrible, then nothing's going to go right for you. But if you feel fit, you feel good. It's almost natural to feel depressed if your body is literally depressed. if every time I go to the gym and do a little bit of training, whether it be a lot or a little,

49:30I always go out of a shower and think, I feel great now. Training sets off an endorphin in your blood that makes you happy. Contentment is the word we're looking for. Contentment doesn't come through material stuff, jobs, positions, fame, glory, money, anything. Contentment, you'll never find contentment while you're chasing that sort of stuff. My message would be, look around yourself and be thankful for what you do have today don't look for what you don't have you know you've got to be happy with who you are a wise man once said you've got to know yourself before you can know anybody else study yourself try and understand yourself think what makes you happy and do that and what makes you sad don't do it it's very simple really if something makes me sad now then I'm not going to do it anymore take that out of my life I don't want that

50:19And if you know something's going to lead you down the wrong way and wrong path in life, don't do it. Simple. Very simple. Say yourself small-time goals, long-time goals, achieve them, and move on. Now, how long did it take for you to lose the weight? I started training in November 2017. 400 pounds. Yeah. Can't run. I got down to 275 pounds in my first fight back in June. And by August in my second fight back I was 258 pounds And I've maintained that weight 260 258 that's your ideal weight yeah from there to now so, um, what did you do differently with your diet? Like what did you I was eating a lot and drinking a lot I just stopped all that sort of stuff like my weight wasn't put on through being a normal person eating normally my weight was put on through excessive drinking of lager there's like 500 calories in one pint of

51:24beer and I'd go out and drink a minimum of 18 of those beers followed by whiskey vodka everything else then I'd stop off on the way home and have pizzas kebabs chocolates it was excessive living if you put your body through torture you can't expect to feel great right so what I did was I started eating healthy, not drinking. And that was it really. I just trained on a daily basis for a long period of time and at sensible and clean. You don't have to cut everything out, but if you want faster results, then you do it. Now, you said you changed your training as well. What did you change up? Before, I was doing a lot of long running and long boxing works, like 12, 15 rounds on the bag, pad work, all that sort of stuff. While I was trying to lose the weight, I was doing more short, explosive stuff. Like I was doing short, faster runs, as fast as I could go, basically.

52:29I would do more interval training and stuff like that. Mainly it was focusing on diet, though. Diet's the most important thing for anybody trying to lose weight. You could train like a Trojan warrior, but not eat correctly. and you go three steps forward and two and a half back. And you find yourself after six months a little bit less than you was. But you stay in the same position because with the diet, not that I'm a dietician, but I know how it works with losing weight, heavy. Because all the way through my career, I've put on a lot of weight. I lost just over 100 pounds for the Klitschko fight the first time round. And I'd lost over 120-something pounds before that again. so what I do to lose weight is I go on a no carbs diet so it'll be totally keto ketosis diet I put my body into keto shock and they say you should stay if you're doing a keto diet you should only

53:22do it for 11 days I'd do it for six to eight weeks who said you should only do it for 11 days I read it somewhere my nutritionist yeah he said no he said you can only do this diet for 11 days I said I've already been on it six weeks don't worry about it that's ridiculous you could do it I know guys have done it for years there you go it's a healthy way of living it prevents diabetes and all these type of things as well there's definitely some benefits to it but there's concerns that for athletic performance that you should have higher carbohydrates true but at this time I was just focusing on losing weight and the keto diet done correct is okay but I was doing it dirty how are you doing it I was having four double pâtés with cheese and mayonnaise is that bad full of fat and grease and it can't be good for your arteries can it well I was having I was having

54:12tons of meat fried fried up with cheese mayonnaise bacon eggs sausage whatever sounds good my ideal diet basically I was thinking this can't be a diet I'm not gonna lose weight on this and you lost weight I lost the weight I lost it all yeah you'd be stunned at what is actually healthy and what's not yeah I suppose you can't go wrong if you're cooking meat what's in a meat whatever they put in the beef or whatever it is you're eating. Processed foods are the ones that got all the additives and all the stuff in it, innit? Processed foods and sugar and bread and carbohydrates, especially refined carbohydrates. What I've figured out in my life is I don't avoid fats. Fats, my friend, basically. If I look at a food, someone's on a diet, they look at the fat content in something, I don't look into sugar. Because the fat, I can burn fat off, but sugar will go into, it stores in the body

55:05and it stays in long and it eventually turns to fat. Did you change anything in terms of your strength and conditioning work or your boxing work? Did you hire a new boxing trainer? Yes. I've not got the same trainer as I did have before. And why did you switch things up? Because I was stale in the gym. I didn't have no motivation no more. I've done the same thing for years. I didn't have any more motivation in the gym. I had to have a new team. and I knew this going into this comeback that I wanted a new team. I wanted to start fresh, give myself some goals, give myself a new team, more positivity instead of doing the same stuff day in, day out. Switch up the trainer and I did. Choice of trainer was very, very controversial as well. Who'd you go with? I went with an unknown trainer who was 24 years old who'd never trained anybody. Why'd you do that? Because I'll tell you the story.

56:01He was helping out Billy Joe Saunders. we was over in marbella yeah I like that guy too and he was helping out billy joe and he was an amateur boxer before ben he had about 12 fights and he billy joe he's helping billy joe for a few years and we went over to marbella and we was out in a bar I was training at this time during 17 I had two weeks training with billy joe over in spain he said will you come out and keep me company in spain I said yeah of course I will marbella let's go I never had any intentions of training. I went over there for a good drink up and a party. So gets out there, and we're all in the coffee shop on the Porta Benoos. And these two stunners were walking past in bikinis. I mean, 10 out of 10 each. And I said to Ben Davison, I said, if you go and get me their numbers, Ben, I said, you can be my boxing trainer. He went, what? I said, you heard me

56:57correct the first time. So off he went. After these two good-looking girls, 20 minutes goes by, he comes back, no number. I said, right. I said, clearly you're not the man for me, I said, because the trainer I need has to have minerals. I said, and if you can't get a woman's number, I said, well, you clearly can't win fights, can you? Simple. He went, What? I'll show you. Offed off all in the mood. Two minutes later, he comes back. There's a number. Bang. Straight over. He had excellent motivation. You hired. You hired him because you got hot girls' phone numbers? Yeah. I hired him for that reason. Not just the hot girls' phone numbers. That wasn't the case. It was the case that he was willing to put himself on the line to prove to me that he could do something. That takes minerals. And if you don't have any confidence, then you can't go over to somebody who's really good looking

57:52and say, oh, my name's Ben, and my mate wants your number. Is that possible? He wouldn't have got the number. He didn't have any confidence, and he didn't have any gumption to him. He wouldn't have got that number. So I knew he was a good choice because he was young and fresh and had a point to prove, and he wanted to do something with his life. And I give him that opportunity, and it was the best decision I ever made. Now, what about what he knows about boxing? Obviously, that played a factor. If he's just some random schmo who's good at getting girls' numbers. no he wouldn't be the trainer if it was just that before this he was taking me on the pads and stuff in between Billy Joe sessions and we gelled straight away me and Ben think alike sometimes you meet people in your life and you're very similar in personalities and we like the same things

58:37we like to do the same things we've got the same type of personality we just gelled automatically I gelled even before I said this about the number of the girls I already knew that I was going to make Ben my trainer he's got a very keen eye for boxing and what he does is very he doesn't look like he knows a lot about boxing, by looking he just looks like a young lad, good looking fella but when you sit down and analyse the fighters he studies boxing day and night we'll be out watching movies after the training, Ben's in his room watching Deontay Wilder, watching the fights, watching this, watching that he studies the game and he's always coming up with different game plans on how to beat this person, how to beat that person. Very, very happy. He's a very knowledgeable young lad. And I said before I even made him my coach, I said, within five years,

59:28you're going to be one of the leading boxing trainers in the world. And now he's got his chance. And if I beat Deontay Wilder, Ben Davison will win Ring Magazine Trainer of the Year 2018. Now, how much different is your training with him than with your last training? It's different. Peter was a top trainer. He got me to be world heavyweight champion. But like I said, we never had no more motivation in the gym. It was stale. There was no vibe in the gym. It was just like work again. I didn't want to be there. I started training camp a few times and walked out of the gym every time because I didn't want to be in the gym. I didn't have no motivation to be there. So the main thing is boxing is boxing and rocket science. You can only do a few things. I think the most important things in boxing is road work, pad work and sparring everything else not interested my favourite thing to do is spar

60:22and I think what better to do than practice what you do with another person fighting other men and that's my favourite thing and I've often sparred hundreds of rounds for fights to get fit and lose weight James Toney used to do that too he used to spar hundreds and hundreds of rounds to get himself fit and that's what I've done as well that's my favourite thing But now we do a lot of strength and conditioning work. We do a lot of weights and stuff. I figured out over here, being around like American fighters and stuff, especially the boxers, they don't have that program of weights and stuff. It's more like maybe light weights, loads of repetitions and stuff. And being a heavyweight, I lift heavyweight, very heavyweights, and deadlifting very heavyweights, and benching heavyweights. I'm using my body weight and a lot of stuff.

61:09so I believe it's very very key factor in being a big strong man so he's responsible for that as well no I have another guy who does that you have another guy who does strength conditioning yeah one of the things about a boxing trainer is knowing when to pull you back knowing when you're peaking yeah and that mostly comes from long-term success working with many many fighters that's got to be of the biggest chances you take with a young guy it is but I put him to the test many many times and he does he can see it sometimes being a successful trainer doing successful things and making champions and then you go work without training you think you don't know nothing that's smart I've worked with a few trainers on fault I'm not going to go into any names because that'd be disrespectful but ben knows when I'm feeling good my style is all about

62:03feel good factor and if I feel good I'll fight excellent and if I'm not feeling under the weather then I'll feel I'll fight rubbish do you know when like when you show up at the gym and you're feeling like shit do you know when to back out of there you know often I've went to the gym not wanting to be in the gym and felt like shit but then had the best training session of my life that's happened many many times until you're actually working out and get into the into the groove I don't think you can really know what you're going to feel like until you start training because if you went on how you felt before the gym sometimes then you won't be in the gym at all right but I do believe what you said is very correct and it's the most important thing that anybody's ever talked about to me and I'm glad that you brought it up because not a lot of people

62:47have that ability to know when to pull your fighter back enough is enough a lot of people think because it's a bigger fight than your last one you've got to train double as hard training harder than you've ever trained before no are you running further you lift him heavier no because I already train hard so I don't need to train any harder where some people think right this is wild the fight we need to be fitter than ever we need to run up a mountain carrying a backpack on my back and pull three balls up there and wrestle two bears but it's not the case and ben knows that's not the case he's very cautious I've mentioned it to him many many times about over training over training over training how many times do you see fighters leave it all in the gym quite a bit I don't want to leave this in the gym I want to leave it in the

63:31ring on the night I'd rather be a little bit unfit a lot unfit rather than a tiny bit over trained I've been over trained and it's like being underwater you've got no snap you can't put things together you want to you can you can see it coming but you can't do nothing about it it's worse than unfit yeah because you're you're compromised I've been over trained before and I've been totally unfit, fat as anything. And I'd rather be unfit 10 times a day than overtrain once. Can't do nothing when you're overtrained, but at least when you're unfit, you lose your breath, but you recover when you have a rest and you get back at it again. But overtrained, you're just one pace, you can't do nothing. You never get out of the mud. No. Now, you have a strength and conditioning coach, and how often do you do that? We do that five days a week. Wow, that's quite a bit. Are you running?

64:22Yeah, we run three times a week. So you're running three times a week, strength and conditioning five times a week, and on top of that, all your boxing work. Yeah, we box six days a week. Wow. That's a lot of work. Yeah. Now, you're doing deadlifts and bench press. I mean, is this a guy that's worked with other boxers before? I've worked with this guy for three years. when I first started working with him he'd worked with boxers before a lot of local boxers and British boxers but he'd never worked with a heavyweight before and he didn't know what he was doing because everyone makes the same mistake they're only humans we'll train a heavyweight they'll train a lightweight they're not boxing trainers they're traffic conditioning trainers so he was trying to make in the beginning he was trying to make me do something that a 10 stone a 145 pound guy was doing it's not possible

65:15it's a different world but only through experience did he realize what we need to do and what we don't need to do and now he's like it's perfect I wouldn't change him for the world and I don't know what I'd do if I didn't have him because I'd have to go and go through all that same learning process again and it's not just heavyweights it's heavyweight boxing because I had this guy this Mr Olympia guy and he used to train some massive guys 350 pounds solid muscle but he didn't know anything about boxing and you boxing is performance sport and no matter if you look like an adonis but you you can't do five rounds it's pointless I'd rather look fat and be able to do 12 rounds on me head to look like an adonis and be fucked after five yeah no doubt I've knocked out plenty of six packs in my day don't worry about that but I'm still waiting to be knocked out as a fat pig

66:07now uh training for deontay wilder what have you done different to be honest we haven't done anything different um is he the tallest longest guy you've ever fought I think him and klitschko are the same same size I think klitschko might have had longer arms maybe or maybe not I don't know but he's up there anyway if he isn't he's the second tallest I've ever fought but every tall guy I've ever faced, the taller the better for me. I don't know why, but I seem to be able to move better than them. The taller and heavier. My ideal opponent would be like, tall as anything and heavy. Because they don't move as quick and they can't turn good and all that. They're stiff. But what's unusual about you is that you're a tall guy who moves like a guy who's not tall. Yeah. And that, most tall guys have that advantage of length and utilization of that length.

67:00they're very good at judging distance and they have that advantage but what you're doing is you're moving around a lot on top of being tall which you could see with klitschko it was very off-putting like right away he didn't know how to fuck with your timing yeah it was you know that's that's a giant advantage it is all my life growing up I used to watch all the great american heavyweight champions of the world we may be in european there's a stigma about european fighters are stiff They can't move. They're just strong. I agree. I agree. 90% of European fighters are stiff robots who just do a lot of conditioning work and lift a lot of heavy weights and they go in there trying to do one thing. One, two, left, up, right, and take four or five shots back. I didn't want to do that. I wanted to have European conditioning with American style. The best of both worlds.

67:51And I believe that's what I've got. I've got the brashness and the movement and the speed of an American fighter, but I've got the European conditioning and core strength. Best of both worlds. Now, when you think about a guy like Deontay Wilder, who's got this wild style, tries to knock you out with every punch, are you doing anything different without giving away your strategy coming into this fight? Are you doing anything different in terms of your preparation or in terms of the way you shadow box or move or train? Not really, no. how can I explain this without sounding like a clown I'll try my best Deontay Wilder is a one trick pony I don't need to do anything special to beat him I just need to be myself Deontay Wilder is looking for one right hand all night it's a good trick though it's a good trick but we all know what happens when that trick don't land you've lost

68:51you need more than one punch to beat me you need to be able to set it up with footwork, speed, feints, movement and he doesn't have any of that if the great Klitschko who had excellent footwork and ability to set that big punch up couldn't do it what chance has the big swinger got of doing it if I get hit by a swinging right hand as a serve knocking out it's my fault I want it to knock me out if I let Wilder swing one of those wild punches from the back of the hall and hit me and knock me out then I'll say thank you very much you put me out of my misery God bless you, Wilder. Because obviously, I can't be a great fighter that I think I am if I'm getting knocked out by swinging punches. It's just not possible. I don't take big shots anymore. Years ago, before pre-2013, I used to take everything, bang in the face, try and walk through and use my sheer strength, size and aggression

69:43and heart and determination to get through everything. But as I stepped up in levels, I realised that wasn't going to get me anywhere but a good hiding, a good punching in the face. So I changed my style to boxing and moving, slipping and sliding. People have never seen me take any big shots because I'll just ride them. A bit like Muhammad Ali used to do. He used to take the shots on the gloves, go with it, slip, slide, roll. Even as powerful as George Foreman was, he was a heavy favourite going in, knocked out Frazier and Frazier beat Ali and he had great fights over 15 rounds. It didn't help him in that fight because he used his greatest asset against him. and if I can use Deontay Wilder's own power against him, then I've won. He's looking for one punch, I'm not. So there we go. And I don't believe if he can't land that punch, he's lost every round.

70:30Even his promoter, Lou DiBella, said recently, he said, if he doesn't knock Tyson down and knock him out, I don't see how he can win. Now, I don't want you looking past this, but let's just say you beat Deontay Wilder. How do you talk Joshua into a fight? I don't because you can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink it. So what do you do after this? I don't do nothing. I sit back, retire, go up to 450 pounds this time. No, don't do that again. And get back on the drink. Hell yeah. What do you do? I mean, you don't want to become depressed again. You need goals. I don't want to. What do you do? I just got to keep training. but like I say I only set one goal at a time and I don't care about anything else other than beating Wilder and after I beat the Wilder probably am going to be depressed again no no no I hope to God I'm not no no no fuck that get that out of your head man

71:26but I don't know you never know you never know but you can stop yourself like you've already brought yourself back yeah I have but you never know what's around the corner for you and I don't want to look past Deontay Wilder and think about what I'm going to do after that right when I beat Deontay Wilder I'm going to let him fight Joshua he keeps talking about this Joshua fight it's the one he keeps wanting so I'm going to let him go fight him go fight each other there you go there you go take what's yours go fight each other come back another three years when you find someone who you think can beat me again well if he beats Joshua that would be spectacular for a rematch right yeah and if he doesn't beat Joshua then it's almost like Joshua kind of has to fight if he doesn't beat Joshua I'll say yeah it was a better Wilder than Fury thought He didn't throw any punches against Fury.

72:14It is what it is. You know, you can't please everybody in boxing, and the fight game's a pretty fickle game. Everybody likes somebody and don't like the next person. And, you know, the way I think I saw Roy Jones say something recently, an old video it was. He said, if Jesus Christ himself wasn't liked, what chance have I? I saw that video. That is so true. Roy's a smart man. 100%. Very smart, man. And a very great legendary boxer. One of the greatest of all times, in my opinion. Yeah. I'm talking with his people to get him in here. You need to get him in. He's very knowledgeable on the boxing game. Yeah, giant fan of that guy. I was with him a couple of months ago. Plus, I want to talk to him about Russia. He's a Russian citizen now. Yeah. How good must that Russian pussy be? Excellent, so I've heard. Must be so good. Not that I know. Must be so good. He got his own passport.

73:06But listen, man, I'm a giant fan of yours. It was an honor to meet you, have you in here. I wish you nothing but the best. Your story is fantastic and uplifting. And please don't go to 450 pounds if you win. Please. I might go to 450 pounds of solid muscle and become Mr. Olympia. Listen, keep it together, brother. Thanks for the kind words over the years. I appreciate it. Thank you. Take it easy. God bless you.