JRE MMA Show #27 with Robin Black

00:01four three two one Robin buddy hey man it's great to see you are you fresh back from Singapore I am yeah I was in Singapore like 48 hours ago did they make that special shiny silver one for you because that looks like that's designed for you no it's I mean yeah it does kind of look like it's designed for me which is why I wanted it yeah it's a rock-and-roll one championship 1 FC championship so what's it like over there man so let me explain to everybody 1 FC is like the Asian version of the UFC it's a gigantic organization that has been going on for how long yeah 2011 so solid 7 years and really high-level fights over there amazing amazing fights Singapore itself is wild so I went over there to chat with them so chat tree city of Tong runs it and he and I had been chatting and and I love kind of how they see martial arts so they don't call it even FC

01:00anymore it's just one championship they don't even use the word fighting really it's martial arts and the way I see it and the way I study martial arts and share it is an art form like painting or yoga or you know things things of that nature less spectacle that's always how I've seen it know is how I love it and that's how they see it and that's how they present it and that's it's presented from this sort of inspirational own your history kind of way in Asia and that was what attracted me to them right away I mean it's it's definitely an art form its values based like they're kind of seeking to inspire people through these athletes and artists it's pretty cool really so what's motivating them to take this sort of radical approach so it's wild that you say that because to me this is the approach hmm so I think what we do or the way that we presented in North America is radical

01:56I think martial arts is an art form martial arts is this inspiring thing I mean you take say for example on loud song he is there 185 pound and 205 pound champion he's from Myanmar they have never had a war champion in any sport ever in their history I don't think they've had a gold medalist in the Olympics they've never had that this guy's a two division champion that will and when I talked to chatri about it and he was talking sort of about why he sees it this way and why he's proud to present it this way he's like he knows without question that there are kids and he won his 205 pound title in Myanmar in a stadium in Myanmar and he said he knows without question there's a kid in there gonna become a lawyer one day because of that and they can feel it and it's real it's not like it's not like a marketing strategy like this is how they see martial arts and

02:49it's how martial arts is viewed in Asia martial arts I get I get to travel so much now it's view different in Russia it's view different in Brazil how's it of you'd in Russia Russia is wild man I got to work for a Seabee you know a see me big organization so in Russia it's very masculine and it's about about victory and about showing your power and your strength and it real and and Russia is like that you know it's a reflection kind of a Russia yeah the martial art thing I absolutely agree with you on that it is an art form but I also think it's a fight like Gilbert Melendez vs. Diego Sanchez yep that's an art form but it's a fight that was that was a wild fight and there's no way that's just art that's that's art and a fight it's both things that a fight is art it's a question of it is in a way it's an expression of of your personality your individuality your heart your

03:51fearlessness 100% but it's a fight I'm not scared of the word fight no I'm not like I like it I like that word yeah like it's but that it is an art form yes fights are art yes definitely I mean like Anderson Silva's second fight with Chael Sonnen the way he landed that need of the body on the ground with that is just art that's art you know I mean if you go back to lyoto machida just landing that front kick on Vitor Belfort that's art that is especially for someone who practices martial arts you see the beauty in that like ah it's like a fly our blossoming or sunrise or just something perfect the impossibility of it is what's so beautiful like these guys are so unwilling partners and they have such like a desire to accomplish what they want to accomplish to kick that guy in the face from that position with Vito it has a lifetime of this mm-hmm a lifetime of being able to not

04:49let you do that and for you to first be willing to be free enough to try it you know and and to to express it in that moment it is definitely art but I'm with you fight doesn't intimidate me at all it you know a fight is a beautiful thing a fight is we fight for things all the time you know it's a metaphor for a life itself when you fight I think people rightly so are concerned with the idea of violence against someone who's an unwilling participant and that's how they think of fighting they think of it as this thing that they want nothing to do with they don't want any violence in their life they don't want anybody to hurt them and I completely understand that I understand that position but that's it's not what it is when it's a competition I mean it's a tired expression because I've said it too many times but my perception of what fighting is is high level problem solving with

05:43dire physical consequences eight-time and the physical consequences are what make it so special yes you know no question yeah the hard times make the good times better yeah you know and the the possibility that bad things can happen to you and do sometimes happen even to the great ones you know I mean you see great fighters have been Kayode and come back and you know there's that's there's something about that where you realize like hey even phaidor can get knocked out you know I mean hey even you know Anderson Silva can get play cocky and get caught by that Chris Weidman left hook I mean this is just this is the game and you know I think in Asia in particular but there's different pockets of how these this is viewed and how the philosophy of of connecting to martial arts and fighting is viewed and in Asia you would see certain amount of the fighters would see

06:39being losing badly is a opportunity a chance because to come back and win again or to come back and show that you're able you you were given the gift of trying and failing you know what I mean I do know you mean you know yeah that's a great way to approach it it's a great way to look at it you know I mean that that there really is a lesson that the average person can take in their life like every time a person does have a bad thing happen to them it's an that that terrible feeling is an opportunity to rise from the ashes yeah and winning when it's when you're just winning at everything and things come easily to you that I'm sure still feels good but when you've gone through really hard times or when you've been challenged by something or do you drop lower the high of the success is so much higher it's so much of a longer journey personally when we've spoke before and when we talked

07:34about CM Punk when he was fighting the first time I mean this is stupid you know and this guy's is pushing stacking himself into a position to try to not fail by making the challenge so difficult that even if he fails you don't really but this is fully different now yeah now I'm I'm cheering for him because he was humiliated like he was he didn't just fail he was humiliated he he in front of everybody was shown to be new people with judge him is weak or people the judgment that he would feel is bad and he said I'll go do it again he we are now in a completely different context because that's a guy who epically failed in front of everybody and then dealt with that and now says I will try the journey again and this will make me a better person and I now I fully endorsed this I'm cheered for him well he's now fighting a fighter who's commensurate in talent and there's

08:31nothing wrong with being a beginner in martial arts but there's something wrong with thinking that you can be a beginner and fight mickey gall big time it was a foolish venture and I wet my approach to it was this is going to be a very good lesson for people that our fans of positive thinking and they think that's enough that is not enough if you weigh 110 pounds you get positive think your way to the bank Francis in gone I'm still gonna punch your brains out there's just no way around it and a guy who has really very little experience in martial arts and has rudimentary control of his body I mean that's what I saw when I saw him on training when I saw him training I was like oh my god he's in that context and I but he belongs here yeah and that's and everything's contextual like just because I thought that was stupid it was stupid right it was stupid but

09:30that doesn't mean in this context I can't look and go there's a guy who didn't need to he doesn't need to come back he doesn't need to try again he doesn't need to go into the gym and I've been there you're in the gym and everyone's going on man you did you did good I didn't do god I failed miserably in front of everybody and then show up there cleaning the mats and work really hard and say I'm gonna try it again and yes that fight still him and this guy still should take place somewhere else 100% it should I mean shouldn't even be on the Tuesday night contender show no no it shouldn't should be in some amateur event somewhere that's really what they are they're their guys learning how to compete yeah they're in the first fight in the pay-per-view yeah that's crazy but dad has nothing to do with them that is a reflection on the company that's not a reflection on

10:17the choices that the Machine makes you know we also gave him a juicy contract yes you know in order to make that valid or yeah viable right to make money off it yeah and but that again I think it makes it makes it deeper and harder and more chances to fail epically and and I lost twice in a row and then still wanted to fight again and still because it I really wanted to and and it was important to me and it meant something to me and I was going to change as a human being by doing it and I was ridiculed I can relate to what he's going through but I did it on a little show in Winnipeg Manitoba I would never have put myself in that place to look bad but here he is and here it is I'm cheering for him as a store as a human being in a weird situation that has been put himself into a deep dark hard spot and saying my way out of this is to try really hard and really go in

11:16and and the chance all that I would want for him if I knew him and he was my friend is to fight your way through some adverse situations to be able to be in it and find when it's hard you discover yeah I can handle when it's hard I can I can get up when I've been dropped or I can fight through not being able to breathe if he loses and does that it will have been worth it for him no matter how much ridicule he'll take it will have been worth it for him what was really weird watching him walk to the cage was that he was approaching it like a pro wrestling fight because he had done so many of these pro wrestling matches that he's walking to the cage with like pro wrestling mannerisms and everything and I was watching this and I you know I did like an internal head shake like oh like this is that you can't it was a terrible idea like whoever on everybody's his side he

12:07said that he could fight Mickey Gaul you're out of your mind watch that kid fight once that kid is very good on the ground yeah very good young stand-ups not bad either yeah you know and he's tough as he's smart he's clever and he's mean he's a mean and that is at that stage he was maybe one to know I think or maybe two but it's still the lowest level that there is in the entire elite world of fighting not that it didn't matter was the way one like you saw it you saw the way he took that guy's back and the way sinks hooks in and when when he was on top and just delivered like yeah that's and you're a hundred percent right what if somebody's watching that that is the reality of thinking I won't really war like I'll put myself in a situation that I can't win but I've got guts in hard and I believe I'm going to do it you get the metaphorical version of that punch

13:00in the face if you go through life like that yes you do and you know what you shouldn't do it in fighting because you don't want those punches in the face if you can't avoid them like if if you're in a situation where you're you want to prove your toughness and you want to battle it against someone who's of your skill level and try to figure your way through the maze of this contest that makes sense what doesn't make sense is getting punched in the face unnecessarily and when you fight in my opinion when I looked at that fight I was like Miki God's gonna smash him this is just how it's going to go there's very few fights where I can tell you this is absolutely gonna happen like here's a perfect example Robbie over half failed dos Anjos against Colby Covington I don't know what the happened no idea I don't know no you're gonna get in there they're gonna throw

13:44down let's see yet see Mickey Gaul versus you know what's his real name Phil Jackson no whatever yeah CM Punk yeah what is it Jamie Brooks Brooks Brooks Phil Brooks sorry Phil I was like well he's this is a terrible idea because he's just gonna get put you can only get punched in the face so many times in your life yeah and you have a number whatever the number is everybody's different mark hunts number seems to be extraordinarily high yeah there's some people that could just take it it's true but you know you don't want it when you can't avoid it and he could he's not gonna avoid it in that fight I was gonna get smashed unless Mickey caught a crazy armbar early in the fight and that was what he gave him that's yeah other than that he's getting his face smashed in and you should not do that if you don't have to well that and I remember when we spoke about it it's unconscious incompetence

14:42yeah and that if you don't know what you don't know like it's a really weird place to be and we go through life that way a lot of times in a lot of different contexts until you find out you know conscious incompetence we're like oh I don't know anything about this he wasn't even at that point now he's at that point and he has a lower level thing so and you know he didn't it was a mistake to start down this road but you're down it now yeah you're on it now so I guess you know it seems to me that I mean he's taken what two years since that fight yeah it's been about two years getting there yeah and we've subsequently got to see Mickey gall and some contests against some really tough guys agent and yeah beat some good guys and we got to see oh okay this is for real which is what we suspected all along but we don't know anything about Phil we haven't seen him

15:36spar we haven't seen him train but from what I saw when I first saw him training the first you know when I first saw I'm sparring and moving around like god damaged a lot of work to be done like you know like first steps of Everest work to be done it's like this is we're not talking about a guy who has like a deep background in martial arts like a Brock Lesnar you know wrestling is absolutely a martial art he was a legit top of the food chain amateur wrestler he was a monster and a physical monster I mean yeah that and a psychological monster like fighting is skills for sure but it's your body and it's your mind and and when you are a heavy competitor when you focus when you're able to focus in the deepest most fearful conditions you know a Brock Lesnar did that you know yeah and physically when you're aware like you said we are aware of where your body is

16:30in space and how to control and that can take a lifetime yeah and so it's a weird one but I think it's something you also develop as a child as a young kid like when you're in your developmental years 13 14 15 your body's growing and it's growing into whipping kicks and punches and shooting takedowns and landing chokes your body develops that way when you're a full-grown man in your 30s and then you're starting to throw roundhouse kicks and front kicks and your your body's all goofy and and doesn't doesn't want to listen right it's not pliable it's not elastic it's just a you're a different animal you can still learn anything you at 50 years old you can take up anything in the world you think of anything and you should yeah you should you shouldn't you know go in the NFL with it or if you start playing piano when you're 50 you should learn to play piano and show all your friends

17:22that you know the song or write but you can't go like you know be in a concert piano scenario where you're going to fail and and doing it and saying you know I believe doesn't make a difference when he doesn't have physically or mentally or psychologically do these things but I still think learning and growing and chasing things and self-improvement is the of who we are I agree yeah I think it is too but you can't be a 34 year old man who's never boxed a day in your life and have a goal to in 12 months fight low mischenko no no it's never going to happen no if it does happen it's gonna be a disaster and there are giant exceptions I'm one in a million of things where people do things but there's always some other explanation and often it is as a youth they created the neural pathways and the physicality and the connection to their body you know I was I did gymnastics

18:16when I was a kid and I loved it it's great base yeah I loved it and and and you know it helps you physically understand where your body is you know and so later on in life I was always at least okay at sports because I understood how to move my body in space and I understood where my hand was compared to my foot and how I balanced and and to learn that as a child somebody who was a master of something as a kid who had 30 picks up another thing it has some really advanced learning abilities there are exceptions there we see rare exceptions but but you're right I mean reality's still reality I wonder too if those exceptions are genetic I wonder if like maybe perhaps someone in their family was a great athlete and it's transferred through their genes which I am as I get older a firm believer in I just don't think we know enough about what transfers through genes but there's some

19:08freaky I see in my kids in particular where I go okay that is my personality that's their something and I'm not teaching her to do this this is something that's in her like this the repetitive like exercise like doing things over and over again obsessively like there's there's some weird that like I'm like I'm wonder if that's a neural pathway that's passed down through the DNA I mean it just seems like there could be a person who's never engaged in athletics but maybe their grandfather was like a world champion boxer and then one day they put on the gloves and then they just sort of like start moving around and the coach is like hey what the going on here where'd you learn how to throw a jab like that I'm forgetting Francis and Ghana's coach's name Fernand Lopez yes he's a wonderful guy a smart guy really he's been around like the best of the best through Europe so

20:04in Cameroon to France in these areas and he's seen the best of the best that that genetic crop of humans has to offer and then Francis in Ghana walks into his gym and you talked to yo you next time you see fern and ask him about this because you see his eyes light up like that thing where there's like a color in the eye nice like you know I just knew like he said I watched him do things in his awareness of his body and how he could physically express himself he said he'd just never seen anything like it and this is you know week one in the gym he said first sparring session he didn't really know how to fight yet but he said he saw him adapting and learning within the round against somebody who knew how to fight and you see it in his eyes he literally found a unicorn yeah that just rolled in off the street and came in and then he was like man if he's had some work ethic if he is like you

20:55know if this if he's passionate about this if he can commit and learn and all that it goes physically genetically speaking this human being the length of his bones the speed of his neurology all of these things he said you just knew and you see it in his face you're like nothing that must have been wild like it must have been wild to to experience that when you have a lifetime of seeing yeah yeah it's like that scene in the color of money I don't know if you ever saw movie what's with Paul moving Paul Newman and Tom Cruise when Paul Newman here's Tom Cruise break the balls for the first time it turns arousal the is going on over here and he looks over and he sees his kid there's there's certain people that just have this crazy talent and when someone has been around for a long time as a coach and had a bunch of untalented or reasonably talented or very talented

21:47people this this big stew of humans coming to their gym and you see that one unicorn that steps in and he's also case where his father I mean he doesn't have a back right he didn't have a background in martial arts before he started training but his father was a great street fighter mhm and it's entirely possible that something was carried on through him or something was present in both that allowed them both to be capable of doing them rather than the learn to pass because we don't know how that passes genetically from from behavior we know that genetically we may behave similar to our parents or kids we don't know if that came from that but there I just I'm always weirdly uncomfortable thinking about genetics because I don't like the idea that we're limited by them and I know that we're not on some level but we are but we are but but then I'm not gonna play basketball yes in Schley

22:44broad game but if we identified no no we're not no we do he's not gonna go okay there's some there's doubt like yeah definitely some truths I mean I'm five foot six on a tall day like that is a genetic limitation that is undeniable right right but if we're looking at things and we decide that our genes if you seen the movie Gattaca ever seen that man I did see that movie a long time ago that's why my favorite movies ever Matt even ha ha yeah I always think of him as Emma Thurman yeah she's in it I know but I think of him as being a thermic because he used to be married to her I'm like oh that's a myth in that movie his brother is genetically superior to him but he beats his brother in the swimming contests all the time and at the end his brothers like how are you doing this and he said I never saved anything for the swim back I was just gonna swim to the other side his

23:43brothers like there is no other side but it was a my I know it's a movie but it was a mindset right and the truth is that's like talent okay so you're talented at certain things Jamie's talents to certain things Francis and Ghana talented talent x effort equals skill yeah then skill x effort equals accomplishment hmm so effort counts twice right effort counts twice but then you get effort with a talented guy with freak genetics like a LeBron James or a Michael Jordan or a brock lesnar and then you get some crazy results yes Oh big time and the guy who doesn't have the the talent but had effort twice effort was applied twice we'll go as far as the man or woman we'll go as far as they possibly could to actualize their true potential by committing themselves to to effort and not going well I can't do it so forget it by applying effort over and over and over again and then

24:44once you've developed talent more effort to take that talent and do something that twice used the effort will get you as far as you possibly can if you say well I'm not gifted I'm not talented so I won't put in any effort you have no idea how far you can go so I absolutely cannot beat Francis in Ghana but by not thinking that I'm too limited by my genes and continuing to apply effort regardless of my genes I can get to the best possible place I can as an individual do you know what I mean so I think that that on some you don't want to go down some road that you cannot be accomplished but you also don't want to not go down roads because you're not genetically predisposed to them I think effort can get you somewhere I definitely can get you somewhere but I think what we're talking about here is what I love about life is that it's messy yeah but there's not it's not one

25:32plus one is two there's not zeros and ones it's just there's a bunch of factors there's a lot of going on man and that's why when something magical takes place when you get a you know George st. Pierre or when you you get a Mighty Mouse when you get someone who's like whoa look at that like this there's so many factors that lead you to be Gennady golovkin you know there's so many different things have to fall into place or here's a guy like how about Michael Bisping like Michael Bisping is just one of the toughest ever example yeah but he found the perfect yeah Michael Bisping is one of the toughest ever he's not extraordinarily talented in any one form of MMA he's not like the fastest guy he's not the strongest guy he doesn't have this great background in Brazilian jiu-jitsu where he's just a world-class strangler and if he gets your back you're there's none of those things

26:29he's just tough as and he's one of them mentally strong guys like even Tim Kennedy who was here the other day Tim Kennedy's like god I hate to give him a compliment but he's so tough can't you can't denial me you can't so and and that goes right back to this and I think this is at the root of questions about life mr. Michael Bisping genetically tough is he genetically mentally tough or did he work really hard and just push himself through things and that one day when it got really tough he didn't give up which taught him that he shouldn't give up which taught him to go even further which made him push himself like or was it in all likelihood it's both but Michael Bisping free of that effort to continue to because what's the same think of the mentally toughest guy that I'm just I have a thing with names sometimes even names I know I'll describe Ryan you know guys got a chain

27:20and he's howling and he does a power slam but I can't think of rampage I can't think of rampage but big elbows you've had them probably on the podcast tough hairy chest Who am I thinking 170 pounds fought Damien my matte brown matte Brown Oh cocoa sauce yeah but that's exactly say all these things but the name will escape me it's a strange thing happens to me too I worked with John so early in the morning yeah right I worked with John Ramdeen for years isn't one of my best friends and he would literally just see it in my eyes just like I won't have the name and I'll throw out one or two of those factoids and he always had it to be like Matt Brown that's why having good friends to work with is great yeah but I'm talking about brown and on the phone i doing interview with him i said you're one of the mentally toughest guys there is and he said that I don't think

28:18I am he said if I think I'm mentally tough for one moment I will not do all of the things necessary to walk in mentally tough he said he's like I am NOT mentally tough the mental toughness is a result of all of the hard work and preparation that I have done to be able to do it in that moment and he heard it in his voice he had no doubt that this was so and I think he's right I think he's right I think he's right yeah I think he's right too but he's also meant because he also does those things but one of the things that about Matt Brown that separates him is that that guy empties out in the cage he separates himself from the pack because he he's so ferocious like that guy's ferocious I mean when he stepped into the cage we were watching I think we're doing a fight companion but we're maybe we were wearing anyway when when he stepped into the cage and fought Diego Sanchez when

29:12when he stepped into the Octagon and screamed and roared it was literally like an animal I mean it was it was ferocity defined and that's just how he fights man that guy just empties out like whatever the he's got he's not holding anything back man he goes for it and that's why I think when we were talking about fight and art to me that's an art of human expression like I think that is to be it capable I mean whether you're you're doing jazz or punk rock it's human expression whether you're Matt Brown or you're some elegant mover it's still the same art at its root but you remember that elbow we fired on Diego Sanchez in that might like it was there and there the these moments are there a lot when you're analyzing fighting and looking at it from that other perspective these fight ending moments are they're there they're way more often than these guys realize but

30:06when they spot them like Matt did in that moment this is I have a free shot from an angle time has slowed down enough that I see it I can see their little red arc of where it's going and I'm going to put this I'm going to end this fry it it's there's a visceral like like it's oh look at you see it see you know just like that that is art to me but watch the left hand the reach and the hold and it's like there is no doubt what's happening here dear it's no doubt what's gonna happen they go Sanchez is another curious example because he's also a guy who is ferocious like a ferociously tough guy but there's always been something about his movements that makes him come up short against the best of the best and I mean you're talking about a guy who's so mentally tough as well like I was bringing his fight against Jake Ellenberger who was a brutal knockout artist at 170 and Diego

31:05really I mean Diego fought at 145 remember and Diego really is a tweener he's like a little too small for 55 I don't know how the he made it to 145 he basically starved his body away and probably did some irreversible damage but he fit like his movements are always just shy of elite and I've always wondered what is that like you know it's almost like even if you see that go back to that clip again but do you don't have to it's okay but there's something about even the way he steps he's not stepping the way a TJ Dillashaw steps you know what I'm saying he's Joe I I see it as his sort of intention it's he's over into a cot that is so nasty nasty and so perfect but I see he wants it badly like he is he's over engaged I think it's psychological as much as anything I was in in Albuquerque look at that the place from the left hand there there's just no doubt where this is

32:04going it's and it is the moment that Matt Brown created like he created that moment see hairy chest that's one of my reminder cues but I think so I watched Diego train in Albuquerque and I loved the guy I was there doing interviewing Cub who is my favorite artist probably to watch for many reasons I'm not not really sure exactly why people can't tell you why their favorite band is their favorite band but I can all there are many things I didn't describe but I was there to interview him for monsters emits a website in South Korea that when I became a freelancer they were like we'd like to give you some work I'm like well that'd be amazing look we'd like you to go he just fought du haut choice we'd like you to go interview mr. Cub Swanson I'm like this is bad house is like my favorite fighter they're gonna send me to Albuquerque then I hung out in the gym and analyzed them and watched

32:59and made notes about what I could and Diego try and super intense and he like does everything super intense and and as much as he loves yoga and at different times yoga and meditation has allowed him to do it differently that hyperintensity I think doesn't allow the sort of soft relaxation that's necessary to really do what you're describing you know yeah I know what you're saying like that's one of the things that people don't understand about striking hard and like having real power is that you're not fully tense through the entire movement there's a lot of parts of striking where the momentum starts and you're almost like completely loose like up until in instants before the point of contact and then it's plain there's this there's this weird thing that real knockout artists have that you don't see in these yeah guys windmill guys are too tight totally but a guy like Ray

33:57Robinson will throw up like there's there was a gene Fullmer Ray Robinson ko clip from the other night I was I was watching online I must have watched it like 13 times in a row you watch them land this I thing was a left hook but you watched it the punch landing like Jesus like this snap that that guy had but that snap is not it's not it's not fully tense here it is right here like look how nice and soft he is simple yeah soft look at that leave that left hook right there that one softens him up ties him up but everything is like the way slow yeah he's swimming yeah I mean it's just he was a amazing boxer dude and you're talking about a guy who had like what do you have hundred and something fights right it's he's almost gentle right like he's soft is the right word there's a suppleness there so there's a calmness as a relaxation and mentally to like you

34:51know that idea of there's a storm going on in the middle of there's this calm area that gentleness that that calmness has to be in your mind to allow you to do this and that's where Diego is look man just look it's just that that's incredible and that left hook right here here it is yeah I mean and even just to create that moment and to see that moment ya know and to set it up and lay traps and see one of the guys moving his hands down see when he's coming forward sees patterns and time make him do those things yep yeah yep but it's that kind of power in that left hook that does not come from that's just this little twist that he does like come on but here it is right here in slo-mo bang and it's just hip and there's like so I did I'm sure you saw it right think you sad I did a little breakdown of your kicks I did see yeah yeah and it says that's what I was

35:49so assuming in on was this double pulse and that's real that's that is the neurology of high athletic performance so I have these friends that I've developed a gathered over the years and I love what I do man like I'm happy every single day and a big part of it is I've met these people that I have these conversations with and sometimes they're very long and deep and and they've some friends that are PhD psychologists and this one guy dr. Stu McGill do you know who he is no I knew that name yeah you've probably heard that name I'm sure somebody's mentioned it because you around different athletic types of all types he is the world's foremost expert in the spinal cord and neurology of athletic performance spinal cord yeah the spinal cord and how and your neurology and your nerves and how your nervous system and George st. Pierre has worked with him a lot he if you ask him

36:43about him this week he would talk about him extensively so dr. Stu and I became friends and it's a big compliment because he sought me out based on seeing my work and saying that guy knows some things I want to talk to him which was a plaque and deep compliment to me and now we became friends and we chat all the time and one of the things we constantly talk about is the double pulse and neurology and people talk about a fast twitch fiber it's not a fiber as that's just terms we've started to hear it's a fast twitch in Neurology it's it's a base fastball hitters have it you know what I mean that neurology where you you there's a pulse of tension and then a complete relaxation until the pulse of tension again the Bruce Lee's one-inch punch was the simple example of them but that is how that is the neurology of high athletic performance and that's what i zoomed in on when i was looking

37:37at your kick because you can quite clearly there's the moment there's the relax and there's a hit and it ends up being more of a whip and Stuart dr. Stu has all these incredible analogies because he's examined this in so many different angles and layers which is the beauty of analyzing anything for years and he'll use terms like you can't shoot a cannon out of a canoe and you think about that and you're like of course of canoes or water yeah but if it's tense and then shoots or you can't push a rope right you're pushing rope right and so but you can whip a rope through an attention relaxation and tension again and that neurology is the neurology of high performance and George you talked to George about neurology he'll go deep down some to George st. Pierre because he studied this to understand himself and what he was doing at a high level with doctors do mmm

38:25but it is a fascinating thing because when you think we often will say you know fighting is 90% mental sipping this cop is 100% Mantha you know my brain told my body to reach out and do it my brain made the choice I activated everything use it's all your brain and everything and once you get to a high level of performance you know how to punch and kick and and you train like crazy and you make the things happen by themselves almost by training so much they take so little attention and decision-making it becomes about maximizing your nervous system how your nervous system and I think that's true of almost anything steer right there yeah yeah that's easy training with George and dr. Steve I couldn't see his face yeah that's John looks like a bar guy but that is he's got him whipping a ball around yeah I'm not sure exactly what he's doing a wider dumbbell prep that

39:24time but I'll put you in touch with him off and so it's like it looks like he's got some heavy weight at the end of a rope yeah and I guess engaging the core through the use of you know probably asking him to only engage certain things to counterbalance the movement I'm surprised to see George wearing your typical running shoe when he's training with the the thick heel and mm-hmm you know I'm still surprised to this day when I see we talk about neurology and activating muscles and tissues like there's so many athletes is still trained with those big cushy bottom grunting shoes I mean I think that is crazy big-time it's weird yeah it's weird I mean you should be doing that kind of barefoot especially a fighter you fight barefoot you should be wearing nothing on your feet and the only thing connecting you to a stable surface is your foot yeah I agree hundred percent sometimes

40:18when we're trying to make sense of these things we go to multiple different sort of perspectives of it so I'll take what I learned from dr. Stu and he's just my friend now as well so I like hanging out and chatting with him about like way out there aspects of these things but you talked to Irwin liqueur as well who has a different sphere of connecting to this kind of thing and Irwin starts with the foot and you've had her one on them yeah yeah and he starts with the foot and everything else it makes sense right I go to throw a punch and the important part is going to be my foot through the leg through the hip through the core and and relaxed until the moment that it hits but no scars on this is the same way when I act Nick gasps Knicks excuse me when I asked Nick curse on about training athletes like what's the the thing that he thinks fighters should

41:04work on the most he's like foot strength huh what I was like wow and I thought about it like whoa of course right that's how you push off that's how you move like of your feet or weak and they get tired you can't move well which I've experienced I'm sure you've experienced when your feet are weak and tired like if you if you don't run and then you try to run one of the first things to get tired of your feet yeah the very worst injury I've ever had in my life by far was plantar fasciitis at both feet over my last fight and I was through training and everything and then I had my fight in Montreal and the whole strategy was put getting to a place where I could be safe and use better knowledge of the situation to fatigue the other guy so the whole a lot of the seven or eight minutes of the fight took place with me pressuring him against the fence just driving off both feet pressuring against

41:56the fence to try to land things or make lines for different weapons and it's only eight minutes but eight minutes of intense drive from my feet and then we went on vacation the very next day and that night we grabbed margaritas and we walked around the resort and my feet were destroyed for acutely for three or four days like I couldn't walk and the inflammation was so unbelievably bad it was like bricks and even four months after it was visualized them I tried to ice I would ice or I would get in immediately into the cold pool and spend the day in the cold pool drinking tequila in hopes that it would help and it kind of did yeah foot pain is that's one of the things that are hurt Dominick Cruz in his comeback fight when he fought TJ Dillashaw you notice he was like kind of limping a little we were attributing it to the leg kicks he said that's not the case he

42:49said what was going on was he had plantar fasciitis because you know he had multiple injuries that he was recovering from during that training camp and when he got knee surgery and he came back from that and he tore his groin he tried to like really ramp up his training he was doing a lot of sprinting and a lot of different things with his feet you know because obviously he's very footwork and tentative with his fighting he his feet up man his feet just weren't in condition to do the kind of stuff that he used to be able to do and the first thing he got was plantar fasciitis sharp had it - he told me was worse things he's ever had meat yeah think of this for the big picture meaning of this for a Dominick so you got somebody else and they're going about fighting and they're their career as a martial artist a competitive fighter one way and Dominic goes about

43:39it a different way in through Dominic's choices moving training footwork he avoids a lot of the damage that these guys will take mm-hmm but he can't avoid something's gonna go right so instead of taking getting kicked a lot punched in the head and taking all those things the training necessary to make that not happen up something else like you can't get away from it you're gonna work yourself until your body gives up even Dom brilliantly finding a way to work outside of taking the damage that they take still could not get away from damaging his body TJ Dillashaw versus Cody Garber at the rematch is one of the most intriguing fights of the year for me I'm really really curious about that fight because I know those guys were tightly matched in the gym and I know that Cody correct him with a big right hand before TJ put him away and so we're any was yeah he was stunned

44:30and he got rocked and I believe when Cody cracked him it was towards the end of the round he was yeah and so he had an opportunity to recover I mean who knows if he had caught that right hand the first minute of the round what had gone on but when TJ recovered from that and landed that head kick and then you know knocked him out and put him away you got to see like what a high-level high-stakes game these two guys are playing and you know TJ has through bang Ludwig has really radically improved his movement his footwork his angles his approach he's so versatile with his ability to switch stances his ability I mean he's constantly cutting angles and striking as he's switching stances and there's so much information coming at you if you're fighting him your brains overloaded if you're not used to that and even the guys who used to train with them I believe in alpha

45:28male are not used to what he's doing now I agree because it's it's at a far higher level that said Cody still has a missile in his right hand it's so goddamn fast his hand speed is so fast and his his fluidity and efficiency in his boxing is so good it's just a very very interesting fight for me that's about as good as it gets right now like from the raw materials of those guys and the skills that they have but I'm definitely with you as far as that my deep curiosity of the choices of the coaches because and you talked to some of them different ones you know I've got a few key friends that I talked to on a very regular basis and so what it will take what we would decide to do to train to make our guy the best in the war or try to be the best in the world in ten months if we take a different strategy and we start to build them to be the best in the world in three years it

46:25different game and that's what Duane's done yeah Duane has said we will and it's it's hard work for Duane to like that's the thing that people won't necessarily appreciate them be like always a brilliant coach that's non-stop constant searching and examining and and trial and error and reinterpreting his language of understanding where the where the chaos is and understanding you know can we make this guy believe something's happening or are we too deep in it that he doesn't think that and it fails like what levers of misdirection are too deep how good is he and when I talked to them leading up to that one it was like you know the conversation was about making Kody believe and anticipate something wrong and that's the root of all of all combat right like you make me think this is coming and I do this it'll keep me in the body and the layers the multiple layers like you just said

47:20overloading the ability to you're trying to catalog what's coming and how you chunked that we don't necessarily understand so your brain may be going okay this is all the stuff from the left which happens when this happened or the the legs are doing this or you're running algorithms in your brain and we don't know I don't know what yours is I don't know how you categorize my threats I don't know whether you categorize anything from my right hand or anything in combination or if you're watching the patterns of my shoulders I have no idea so Dwayne and anybody else playing with this concept is trying to figure out how you'll read this you know and use that against you and to me that's the layer of complete mind-blowing nature that like what did you say chess with our consequences or I said unsolvable problems think of how hard those problems are now how many there are

48:11that's the game and it and it can be done at this level because their skills are so good their minds are so good they're physically so good they're capable they're fearless they're confident they have all of those raw materials and now we're playing a game that most of us cannot comprehend and they've also sparred countless hours together so they understand each other and they've told each other lies for long lies are lies right I one time went with I worked for a company called the score fighting series it it was a brilliant show like it was kind of Canada's Bellator like it was on the same network and they aired Bellator and it was very very good Developmental League stuff and that company brought in Forrest Griffin and then a bunch of poker players and they were on a train together and contest winners on the thing got to ride on this train with Forrest Griffin and a

49:00bunch of poker pup the high-level pro poker players and I was there and that was the first time I met Forrest and this is a killer smart dude but you watch these poker players who are all riding together and they all know each other and they're just telling each other lies all the time trying to like tell stories about things that represent the fact that they are you know conservative when really they're risk takers are trying to tell each other things that make them think they're crazy but really they're calculating like they are telling each other lies ongoing and they're gambling with each other and it's a completely did unit degenerative but that's the kind of thing that's happening on some level with these two high-level fighters yeah making them think certain things about what they will do or believe they'll do almost everything they say we should the

49:45fans in the audience we should assume is a game chip is like a something to make the other one believe something that might in that moment let me land that kick if he thinks that I'm you know whatever right it's manipulative stuff and at that level that is just so unbelievably fascinating it really is it really is and the stakes are so high you know the kick lands you're a hero the kick misses and you get caught with a left hook you're a loser you know there's just so much at stake with every single choice you make and all those choices have to be almost subconscious or semi conscious because you've got to be in the Zen state you got to be flowing so everything has to be prepared you have to have you know while you're in there you have to have no regrets you have to be able to just flow and you have to be able to capitalize on any movement any any opening you see you've got a pounce and

50:35you have to be in condition to execute all these things so you have to have had the physical discipline in the mental fortitude to push yourself through training to a level that you probably didn't think you could get to and and I want to pounce with the opening but what if it's a lie right right what if Matt Browns lying on that thing was actually that one would be hard to be alive but there are other ones where it feels like that one little opening but instead TJ's gonna catch you or Cody's lined you up to draw you into something well Cody so god damn fast to his hand speed is so ridiculously fast I go back to the Thomas Almeida fight and Almeida has really never been the same again I made it going into that fight was undefeated was thought to be the dark horse of the division like a future world champion and Cody lit him up like a Christmas tree and the way he did it

51:21was so definitive they liked Jesus like there could be no doubt this guy has real world championship potential yeah you know and I think that the Duane Ludwig factor is so huge I really really do it and I seen Duane's work and like Duane unlike a lot of guys has notebooks like binders full of ideas and his system is a it's a very declared system it's not like loosely based like we always work off the jab we got good footwork now it's none of that no like there's a system to his like he has a belt system to his style and his style is based on four people don't know Duane was a world-class kickboxer world-class point I fight I mean fought Ramon Decker's I mean fought some of the best of the best had some amazing fights in both MMA and kickboxing and he was a really talented guy and then transitioned on to being a coach and the obsession that he has towards coaching

52:25is really at a higher level that even his obsession towards fighting and he talks about that that his passion is teaching people he loves it he loves being able to mold students and he's found the perfect muse or the perfect willing participant in TJ and TJ and him have a very unique friendship and a very unique student mentorship sort of relationship it's really really interesting to watch the two of them together wild now the the super gym with 20 guys and then you've got and Dwayne has tons of athletes too but but a commitment and connection to TJ then you got Matt Hume and Demetrius like you've got a few of these guys who are just like we you we will funnel all of my experience through everything through this super athlete but like you talked about those books a the only way that you get to a point of this level of mastery that we're talking about is that you must go down some

53:22road for six months that amounts to nothing so that you learned that road isn't the road yeah and the only way and you can't give up too early and what if by going down it long enough some different concept about how you switch your feet in a certain moment you think maybe that ain't it but you have discovered that by pushing through some of these concepts long enough you find it so you stick with it long enough it turns out no Dwayne and or anybody else reaching that level of mastery has gone down some rabbit hole for months or years and discovered the only value they got out of it was well know there's lots of value that wasn't the rabbit hole and the the process of searching this rabbit hole has made me better at searching rabbit holes so those two values some of the stacks of his books are things that didn't work and he will probably appreciate those just as much as any of

54:11the ones that did there's also TJ's approach is really interesting to me because TJ is obsessed with improvement and knowledge and he keeps talking about his fight IQ and you know him and Dwayne I've been around them I've trained with them I've worked out with him I watched him coach TJ and I mean they're they're constantly working on the minutia they're constant working on finite details and and and improving every single aspect and tightening things up and it's really interesting TJ's a open book man I mean he's a he's he you can talk to that guy about anything and he's considering and he's thinking and he's like okay I see what you're doing I see what you're doing like he's he's a guy who's always trying to take in information you know that's so these are the things when we do watch this kind of thing whether it is martial arts or even you know jazz or football

55:06or whatever there are these lessons that are there like we should do that like we're supposed to go through life we're not supposed to look at TJ Dillashaw and go wow isn't that crazy that guy if we do that our lives will get better right like I got to sorry I get to work for TSN in Canada which is like ESPN in the States and we I'm myself and Aaron bronsted are like the two-person division it talks about about UFC and fighting and we they went and when George was fighting Michael they went and said you know could you approach your friends with George in his people could you approach them about doing a half hour long documentary on him about his comeback and training and stuff and I did and at first George was open to it and his Rudolf his manager was like I've got to hear the word documentary and I know what that means it's going to be months and is gonna be

55:56cameras and it's gonna be a distraction I said I'll just travel with George and I have the best producer Simon the best producer we have and we'll just travel with him and they said yes and so I got to travel with George for a month six weeks off and on York LA Montreal life eating ice cream training Freddie Roach yeah yeah that was interesting when is this gonna come out it did come out before so mostly in Canada I'm gonna send a message I'm gonna send a message immediately after we get off here to Simon and the rest of them and say where is that right now and then I'll tweet it out because it learned a lot oh man it changed my life like yeah because you don't get to be around the greats of the greats and study them and we're friends so I can talk to him like we hang out he I got to train karate with his team like point karate you know and so he made all Robins

56:49training with us today what kind of point karate training do they do and do they do this to practice like blitzing yeah and just think of this like an eye you were big on point karate like 2012-2013 and I didn't disagree but I didn't really get nervous yeah it was so magical to see like and I wasn't just like how does he kick him like how does you think can here why does he do the things he does and what's his motivation and it really made me a better human being getting to do that but so what I didn't really connect to it's sometimes there's something so simple and we don't see it we're in were deep in up whatever we're in but the idea of point karate yeah people right away say well they're just touching each other it's like it true so if I'm training to just touch you I'm not training to hurt you okay that seems like that's not valuable you're training to not let me even touch you if

57:43you can't get touched by me how hard impossible is it for me to hit you clean you know what I mean if your movement and your your defensive systems and your management of the of the distance between our weapons and targets are such then I can't touch you how can I hurt you if I can't even like get touch you with my gloves well the thing is here's what I think about point fighting and what what I think was valid about it is if you're just doing point fighting with a point fighter it is extremely frustrated I've fought in point fighting tournaments when I was competing and we there was I came from a full-contact Taekwondo background and we fought in these tournaments and the object was to knock people unconscious and you would fight you know there were three minute rounds and you would fight and you would try to kick people into another very similar in Canada when I

58:32said what we there was a lot of people that I trained with that openly dismissed point fighting and the reason why they openly dismiss point fighting was because they would stop every time someone get touched and I would be like well in the real world or everybody would say in the real world you don't just stop when you get touched you keep fighting and so with our techniques a lot of it you would hit someone once and they would counter and then you'd set up the big shot afterwards it's like this is part of the thing and if the the referee kept stopping you then you would never get anything done but my thinking once I got into MMA was okay yeah but if you can do that and do the other things it's like people dismiss Taekwondo because they were like well Taekwondo you know you get taken to the ground you get your legs kicked out absolutely but if you have takedown defense and you

59:24know muy Thai you can wheel kick someone into another dimension and we saw that with Edson Barboza versus Terry Adam we've seen these Taekwondo techniques manifests themselves in MMA and you realize like oh these are the most powerful things you could do to a person inside a cage but when you see the point fighting style they like the Raymond Daniel's or the Michael venom page this ability to blitz if they can do those other things too this is another another level there's something to it so as a fighter I wasn't willing to dismiss point fighting because I had been lied to already I when I went and took Taekwondo and then started kickboxing first American kickboxing above the waist first thing I realized was how easy it was for me to get punched in the face I was like oh okay you know if I'm trapped in this ring and I can't go anywhere and someone's

60:16throwing punches and I don't understand how to get away from him and I'm used to this Taekwondo style of having your hands down low I'm getting up so I've been lied to Taekwondo is not the best martial art none of them are yeah there's exactly nothing Zac there is no best but there is something absolutely legit about that blitz in karate blitz that some of these guys can do and I fought some really good guys in those karate style tournaments and and I got an ass made out of me I mean you you don't know what to do like and if you get your kicked and then the referees point in the other you don't have a chance to fire back because they're separating you guys and I I really absorb those lessons and I was like in MMA that ability to close the distance because every in MMA there's so many guys and Conor talked about this there's so many guys that have this muy Thai stance and they're

61:07the presenting that's very predictable targer they're standing right in front of each other and I think this stance and especially this the change though the forward stance is one of the reasons why Vitor has been caught and knocked out twice with front kicks because he squares off Vitor explained this to me in like 1997 when I was training at Carlsen Gracie's he was explaining that you know some kick boxers are going to have a hard time in MMA even though they're really good kick boxers because the MMA stance you really have to square off more you can't stand like this you can't stand like a boxer and a kickboxer is a little more open than a boxer but then MMA is a little more open than that you almost have to be square but that square leaves you open to front kicks to the face and then start turning aside kicks and side kicks to the body think about what Vito has been dropped

62:00with John Jones dropped in with a side kick to the body Sakuraba dropped him with a turning side kick to the body front kick to the front kick to the face it's because it presents this square thing but to him this is sprawl and throw punches and throw that they like the Blitz that he use on vandal e Silva yeah and it worked much of his career he either won with it or lost with yes and I respect that thinking but those types of doctrines like is literally and in martial arts in day to day life in anything if you think anything is nothing you're totally wrong right because if we all agree it's nothing then we all acting like it's nothing then we all start ignoring other things and those things will work so if you have to if MMA you have to square up all of a sudden some guys some Conor comes out with a different thing and you were wonderful Thompson yeah that the

62:49guard is the one that is glaring to me right now because and I mean I've talked to some of the smartest and the best and they will and we do this over and over again and we do it in everything you know remember when you you're you cannot cross your feet when you do an armbar remember that head kicks don't work and ever met like you know this has been going on forever so any absolute decision that this is a fundamental rule is completely that's where you're gonna get yeah I mean how about the low calf kick yeah I mean look Benson Henderson was in my opinion the first guy to break yes MMA and he started doing that back in the day but not at the effectiveness the level of effectiveness that we're seeing now that low calf kick is people up it's really interesting and then they'll adapt and then it won't work but that adaptation will put something else that

63:43available I'll think of the problem with the low calf kick is that you really can't condition the lower part of your leg the same way you can your thighs and I think it's going to keep working but then we have to not get hit by it so we'll make a change to not get hit by and once we do that'll force us to do something else that someone will take advantage just it's amazing how quickly it works like if you see a guy get hit with a brutal leg kick like it takes one or two and then they start to feel it there's something about the first low calf kick you see guys wobbly like that that muscle is like really than the insertion at the bottom is so small it's opaque you see and it's taking so much work like it's carrying so much yeah yeah it's it's these are when things work beautifully and again like I used to take anything we'd talk about and I'd bring it back to fighting

64:29now I tend to take anything and fighting and I try to figure out what it means in life like I'm kind of over time of study I've started to do that right and this is true of this kick and it's true of anything it's like know that what it works best when the physiological truth that calf is small and weak and then works with the systemic issue he's got his foot there in the way he's standing is such that you can hit it too those two things together are making that thing work right now if you what you can't change the strength of the calf so the only thing we can change is how available that calf kick is if we don't want to get hit with it so we must change that and if we do we've changed a lot of different things and now something else is available that Dewayne or Duke or somebody else is already planning how to how to take advantage that you've made that adaptation and

65:20that that is for me what is eternally fascinating about martial arts but again that's those are the lessons of life that are there if you can't see that the world around you has changed dramatically and you act as if it's the same you get up you will get up you know I bring this to Paul Daley versus John Fitch because that fight was extremely frustrating to Paul Daley and frustrated a lot of people that were watching it too because John Fitch was just able to take him down and kind of do what John Fitch does and hit him on the ground and kind of beat him up and controlled the position and and you know at the end of the fight Paul's yelling boo it was so strange you know and but this is a guy that if you just stand with him he's going to you up like if you just decide to trade shots with Paul daily on your feet he's got a left hand that is a goddamn nuclear

66:14missile you know and he basically everybody he hits with that thing goes night-night it's scary even lorenz larkin who's a seasoned striker he got clipped by that left hand is like you'll the ability to make generate and create that amount of impact it's elegant it's like it's it's like we are human bodies and minds don't do all that many things that are that unbelievably beautiful and rooted in our history as human beings you know what I mean this is at the basis of what it was to survive and protect and expand and stuff and you see it right there when Paul de Leeuw hit somebody link it's unreal the opposite of that scenario is Johnny Hendrix was fighting Stephen Thompson and Johnny Hendrix wanted when Stephen would come in he wanted to drill him with hooks and uppercuts and then get to his body and take him down and do it what John Fitch did but Stephens like you're not doing

67:10that and after he kicked him and beat him up at distance and then finished the fight Johnny was being interviewed and he said why wasn't my name I mean and Johnny is a classy guy over all over the length of his career he sometimes gets heat but it cares right like the opinion of other people shouldn't matter to Johnny Hendrix but Johnny said after he cycle I was kind of hoping he'd come in trade a little more it's like why the would he do that that's not his style that's what you want he wants to do what you don't want yeah the whole goal is to do something that benefits him in this scenario and does not benefit you which would be exactly what he did which is why what brings you back to the Paul de Leeuw John Fitch fight like this is the answer to that style the answer to that style is take you down and not ever let you get up and and force John Fitch's game on you which is

68:00what makes fighting so interesting if John Fitch had just decided to go cowboy and bite down his mouthpiece and just wing punches at Paul Daley until one of them went to sleep that would've been a great fight for Paul de Leeuw great when Nick Diaz and Paul de Leeuw did that yeah now it's pretty amazing and that only happens again you're creating a moment and it only happens because Nick was motivated by who he is in that moment he wasn't motivated by strategy even necessarily he's you yeah like you and that however people will look at that that is again it is an expression of the individuality the authentic truth of who Nick Diaz he is yeah that's why that's all right we were the socket art and fight that's a fight this was my great and he got sucked a fight watch a little bit of this because he just he just kept the pace he's just refusing yeah Paul

68:57just got too tired too quick he was he was winging big shots and look at Nick just that's just left hook you talkin about yeah this is over okay it's over there we're done no Nick won't be done yeah well I mean who knows maybe if Paul's in better condition but this is the end the end is Nick just battering him it's crazy that he did his striking contest yeah but he did it with will he was always a great boxer yeah but I mean and again where this were this a metaphor for life like you got some of the greatest victories ever yes it really was that was that the quintessential Nick Diaz fight and there are people who don't like him I love that guy me too because that what were what we're searching for I think is we're trying to be authentically who we are yeah I think that's all we're doing that's what Nick Diaz is whatever the you think he is good he is

69:53authentically Nick Diaz no and and the metaphor to me is Paul Daley is a wall and you can you can dig under it or you can go around it or you can trick somebody to give you a rope or you can climb it or you can dissemble it and Nick's like it I'm gonna go through it I'm gonna go through it and there are many ways to choose to live your life and that's how Nick Diaz lives his life and that's that's beautiful what sucks is that he hasn't fought in forever I mean he hasn't fought since the Anderson Silva fight that's crazy and it's crazy that they suspended him for marijuana when Anderson Silva tested positive for steroids in that fight and he got a shorter suspension than Nick that's a reflection that's a cultural leftover cultural election that's also that Nick refused to pay the fine because that's Nick Diaz being authentically excellent yeah yeah you're not getting that money from me

70:43but you can admire that like some some people will look at that and go do just pay it it'll go this way you said no fundamentally who I am I cannot do that yeah I will get negative consequences in my life but I will be authentic to who I am but Nick is like 36 now I think how old is Nick Diaz no 34 he's 34 now say yeah oh dude his first fight in UFC I believe he was 20 you know when he fought Jeremy Jackson like way back in the day he was 18 you know I mean he's been around man you know he's been around so he's still like literally in its physical prime I mean and this is crazy considering the fact that I want to say the Anderson Silva fight was three years ago yeah yeah yeah yeah I would love to see him back in there again you know I don't know don't got to do what you want to do though I don't know if he really truly that's what he wants to do he'll find a way to do it

71:41and if he doesn't yeah I know George you yeah George coming in I'm I asked George so my work they're like hey can you see what's up with George and this Nate Diaz I asked but and I'll ask honestly as a friend in it and he knows that I'm also employed by somebody's a little conversation but but I will never ever sacrifice a friendship or like a long-term relationship to like find something out of it yeah I don't care about and I don't care about Twitter beefs and I don't care about the breaking news and all that's just not interesting it's not anything to do with my life but I'll go ask George so I asked George who we are friends we talked yesterday and we will he will tell me the truth and then and something as simple as all of you know not as and maybe not in exactly those terms but he would say when I asked him about if he's like no Berle I haven't signed nothing and yeah I

72:39looked at that in like oh my god that's George try to be deceptive like George would normally go ads-b yes man that's not happening I know I haven't signed anything well I know they've offered him yeah but that was George whose shitty at being deceptive trying to be deceptive like he yeah so like you said for it to they've offered it to and by saying I haven't signed it means he's considering it I think he's considering it but I think he's also considering khabib nurmagomedov and then there's always the great Irish leprechaun you know I mean I think those are the two big fights the two big fights are could be but one 55 or even 170 CSP wants the winner of Conor McGregor vs. could be if not Nate Diaz insider drops bombshell and this is May 19th Saturday yeah I'm sure he wants that but that fight would have to take place first and who the knows when Connor or kabhi would

73:30fight afterwards if it's Connor it might be a decade later I mean who the what knows what that guy's gonna do now when you give a guy like Connor a hundred million dollars you know I mean this is what happens he's throwing dollies at bus windows and losing his mind and yeah no matter Jamie you have see inside of a shop was it yeah it's on his podcast it's all that like I scroll down since UFC say Brendan Schaub knows who Brendan Schaub is you yeah it's at some obscure insider yeah yeah well I'm sure he does want that but if they offer him a fat paycheck and they really should if they want look the UFC is in a weird position they bought the company for four billion dollars I don't know what it's worth but I would guess it's probably not really worth four billion dollars they have a giant monthly not it's huge the monthly nut that they have to make cause

74:21them to fire a hundred employees I mean there's a lot going on and there's been some you know great fights and it's obviously still incredibly popular but you want to make those big pay-per-view bucks you need the big name stars GSP was always a big name star became even bigger when he came back and beat Bisping and won by finish you've got him in a rear naked choke and put him to sleep I mean but he's still a giant star however he hasn't fought in a while vacated the title doesn't have the title anymore so it's not as big of a deal to the public's eyes when his it though it is it is people are dummies man yeah the funny thing to me is like I always feel like and and I also feel like a lot of these mechanisms title shots ranking belts you know Twitter beefs they were intended to be there as a short-term solution to give people a talking point until they saw how till they got deeply

75:22invested and connected right I think that was but yet somehow these sort of extra outside distractions became the focus who the cares who's the number-8 guy and who cares if these guys are mad at each other on Twitter and the belt itself is a mechanism for discussion what matters is the fight and and I know that it's like yeah but you're obsessed with fighting most people if you show them what's really going on there and contextualize the fact that these two human beings have dedicated their life and taken all of the knowledge in human history to put on the line in this moment of severe intensity and consequence you won't care as much about whether somebody has an interim title you don't know I won't and you won't but the average Joe Blow by a pay-per-view once a year is going to care maybe yeah it's just I mean that's the idea behind stripping Tony Ferguson yeah

76:16I mean why strip my takeaways interim title let him keep the interim title if you want to strip Connor just strip Connor strip Connor and then Tony's obviously gonna go through surgery Tony and do anything wrong he fell and hurt himself but I think at the root of it is the filicide is an incorrect philosophical belief so when I if I talk to people at the UFC and I talked to them periodically and I'll discuss something with them about you know and it's generally at different times been like hey man you can see the work that I'm doing you can see people like it could I contribute something X or Y mm-hmm and then I'll mention you know they will then say well you know you've got like a really unique way of approaching it we think you know we got so many casual fans watching on on Fox or on these TV stations this is such a casual audience and I think about it

77:08it's like nobody questions that the the percentage of people that are a casual fan that is watching anything is very close to zero very close to zero you think so yeah because the casual the the not actively choosing what to watch is being on a Netflix search or is somebody put something on and I go and see what The Rock is cooking in his kitchen you know where I said what's your dog's name the gold dog Marshall I go see what Joe is feeding Marshall nobody's watching something they're not interested in ever in our society we are all conscious constantly and consciously choosing what we consume at all times and if we're sitting there with our boyfriend or girlfriend or husband or wife and they're watching it we're somewhere else by feeding this non-existent casual audience and really believing they exist despite all the evidence that there is no such thing you

78:00are now giving less importance to the your actual audience who is ready to go deeper ready to see something more meaningful ready to be brought somewhere different there is no casual audience of almost anything in our modern world I like what you're saying but I disagree because people are watching and they don't know what the they're watching I've done it with people I've unfortunately watched fights over friends houses before because I happen to be there and then you know there'll be people sitting around watching why doesn't he just do this but they still chose to watch it they still made that yeah but they made that choice yeah let's say they're barely paying attention they don't know what the there was like so a guy like you comes in talking about artistry and all this and they I think you are great I love your approach but I think your approach in their eyes is a little

78:51bit too esoteric and complex and maybe be balanced out better with someone like me yeah yes percent a hundred percent and as a result we're not over especially the last sort of year so I've looked at it like you know trying to force something like I'm not I'm not sort of happily saying that I would be I would be in a relationship with you and accept what you are I'm saying I think we should be in a relationship only I want to change you and that's not right yes I'm literally saying I'm not saying put a role here tell me what that role you need and I'll do it I'm actually saying I think it should be different and that's why it's not a good fit and that's why I say a 1 championship is a more logical fit for me because it's younger and it's in its evolution but still growing and at that think I agree with you but I think it goes back to the money because I think

79:45there's so much money involved in the UFC that they have to make money every month I mean it's it's they're in as they're in a tricky situation it's like like if you're a guy and you make 500 bucks a week and you really like this car goddamn that Corvette is so nice I really like it well how much is the lease the lease is $1,000 a month but you only make $2,000 a month how you gonna do that well if I only pay 500 bucks a month in rent I can kind of pull it off right like yeah I guess you can but you got to watch every penny and you got to be cautious and I think you could put yourself in these traps and then you have to like really micromanage everything you do it we got to make money but we got to make money but we gotta make money instead of we gotta do what we'd like and put together what we like and do the best possible version of what we like like a perfect example is

80:34like this podcast I don't have a boss there's no overhead I don't have I mean I have a couple employees it's very easy there's no worries so I don't give a if I have you want to talk about stuff or Obama leap expert or I'm not gonna have anybody on that I don't I'm not interested in talking to because and I'll talk about whatever the I want to I don't I don't think I don't know I don't know if people are gonna be interested in this I need that advertising money I need to say if you because of that I think it's one of the reasons why the show has been successful because it honestly represents my thinking it's like I'm allowed to pursue my interests and have these conversations and and let it be pure I think if the UFC took that exact approach I think the product would be better and I think if they had someone like you breaking down the artistry of specific techniques the you know

81:27air-quote casual fan would be more educated and they would learn more about it I mean and you get some of that from Dominick Cruz when he does his breakdowns on Fox and some of the other fighters who do breakdowns and when Daniel Cormier does wrestling breakdowns and breakdowns specific techniques of why they work and why they don't work and what someone's doing right or wrong you get educated you know and I try to do the best I can to when it comes to the ground in particular which is where I think it's the most confusing aspect of MMA for the casual fan but I think we should approach the the entire sport in the the most illuminating way possible and I think a guy like you and your approach is very valuable and I love your breakdowns thanks member big fan of them so I retweet them all the time I can say you have a very unique and passionate and it not just passionate

82:21approach but it's genuine Mike I know you I've talked to you when the cameras are not on and you're just as interested in this stuff I really am and I think we're just going through thank you by the way man I think we're we're going through whatever you're doing if you're trying to seek some kind of mastery and if you realize you're really early in it you can do it by studying yoga some people do some people do it they they're in they go to church twice a week you're just looking to try to grow and if you do it with something that you're deeply fascinated in eventually you kind of learn about connections and all things you know the study of martial arts or the study of yoga or the study of jazz or whatever teaches you about connections and all things and my life is so good and and these little moments where I'm like I don't know why these guys I don't work for them that

83:09doesn't make any sense it doesn't make any sense for me to think that because I get up in the morning and I say to Mike I make my wife and I coffee and I sit in my kitchen and I analyzed fighting I sit down and I look at it and I look for moments and I look for things I think people will find fascinating I look for things that'll teach us something about life and I look for these and I make them then when I make them people seem to like them and then that gets me jobs commentating where I fly off and I get to I mean I got it so done to try to square peg my way into a large corporation because years back I dreamed about working there sometimes you change your dream sometimes it's okay to change your route and find the world changes constantly yeah and don't be afraid to be flexible and you know the the idea of holding on to a dream for your entire life despite

84:00your interest is pretty ridiculous yeah I mean there's things that I wanted to do when I was young that I don't want to do anymore it doesn't you know you should follow your interest period you know if they change your change as you change and grow I mean these like I talked about my waning love for a Taekwondo when I realized that it wasn't really the right way to go well when I first started doing that I thought it was the most effective martial art once I realized it wasn't I lost interest I lost interest in competing in it I just didn't seem like the thing to do anymore and I think that as you grow as a human being you're it you should have other interests I mean and I think the ones that are the most intriguing and the most passionate or you'reyou're the most passionate of they're gonna give you the most reward if you pursue them if you're more passionate about music than you are

84:51about accounting but you decide to stick with accounting because it's what's paying your bills like man that's a dark road it is it's a soul-sucking road you're gonna go down it feels scary in for somebody in that setting to change it's in the short run it would be painful but in the long run it will be so valuable and less painful yeah 20 years of way less pain is such a great trade for two years of pain but if you're that guy with that Corvette that you've got that lease on and you can barely make those payments you cannot take any chances you have to just work those extra hours well if I just put in two hours of overtime every day that's still only ten hours of work a day but that wasn't two hours at 20 bucks an hour and start doing those calculations and that's how you that's how you get and that's how you get trapped in the next thing you know

85:40you've got a family and you got kids and you definitely can't move and you got a mortgage and you definitely ain't pursuing any music dreams now and this is this is the trap that life leaves ya you know I watched so I do a one-man show now so I built with a friend I built a one-man show it's like those are gonna theater yeah yeah like it's like how do you do that do you use video right now it is for as we put it for punch-drunk TED Talks right so it's for story driven parts of life that take you on a bit of and in theory and in practice so far people seem to be inspired or find it you know compelling and people have cried at him before which is really quite moving but I was people to go to a dog they may be shed especially yeah but I I did it with so I decided I wanted to do that I decided I want to get up and tell stories and hopefully find entertain people or find

86:38them and inspire them or take them somewhere and I did it partly I watched your show and then I would have never in a million years or when I saw you in Vegas would never in a million years thought I could do that because it's clearly a lifetime of training and development and improvement and trial and error and thousands and thousands of repetitions and you look at that and you don't look at an Olympic gymnast and say I can do that and that's kind of so I didn't think of it at all but then I saw Brendan do his show and it was awesome and I realized he only started working on this two years ago you know what I mean and all he represents is hard hard work sacrifice and drive to learn yeah and that's possible yeah what shop is doing is what I what I said to him is you were essentially using an athlete's work ethic and applying it to an art form and that's what's awesome about he's a funny

87:29guy who realized like I can do stand-up I just need to put the time in and you know I've seen that guy kill I mean kill and he's been doing comedy for like two years you know that is inspiring that should you should be aware when you see that that that means something you work on for only a couple years as possible if you're driven and smart and and really committed and that's what I took out of his show plus he explained to me the process so I decided I'm doing it right so I booked about five months ahead in Winnipeg because there was a UFC and Winnipeg and that's my hometown to do a small theater and I'm like okay five months and I'm like what the do I do so I called up a good friend of mine gray I'm just you when you booked he died - oh yeah so and I come but I had one plan I was gonna call it my friend Graham Massoud or who is a playwright and a writer for

88:20vice and a bunch of other stuff and and very smart and interesting and we're good friends but we have very different perspectives and I said I booked this show it's in six months and forty minutes it's gotta be Sai and he's he has told some of my stories in vice before getting drunk with sumo wrestlers and different different stories and so he's how much do you weigh about 156 and you got drunk with sumo wrestle is scary oh no it was really it was joyous like it was you've never seen anything big though yeah oh you should see it so be Amba do you know who beyond is he's like okay so if you ever see a sumo on TV that's beyond that so he's the guy like in the Geico commercial skating do I being a figure skater of Tiger Woods of sumo wrestling and he is a genius he's a world champion but he's also an entertainer so he lives in Hollywood and he's very very do this here yeah yeah he

89:13is sumo russell's yeah there yes yeah he's from Mongolia but he spends a great deal of time here working as a television personality and an actor and whatever but he still just looked fat oh this guy looks jacked like go to that one where he's doing that muscle pose don't worry there yeah yeah see that's like the shoulder muscles through all that fat that guy looks like a tank well people don't realize but underneath there is like you or underneath there is like TJ Dillashaw you know what I mean there is a muscular person underneath all those additional layers of fat and flesh and skin there's there's a powerful athlete is there a real benefit in being not fat yeah force power generation like momentum the ability I mean if the other guy is that big and our goal is just to smash into each other until one of us has taken from the platform you're not that big it's going to be very difficult

90:06right so it's like an arms race of size over generations where they just got bigger and bigger out of necessity because if you're bigger I mean what am I going to do well we could in in theory maybe I could use your size against you or I could use technique and strategy and smart stuff to take you off but I could be big and all such that right so why not be also big so it did arms raced to that point and there are little guys but but to watch that guy that's with him that guy's killed he is that in practical jokers oh yeah Fiamma is like he's the most famous sumo guy in the world and I got wasted with him at the world combat games and st. Petersburg Russia so I got to commentate it right so I was since the st. Petersburg and I absolutely loved I found a niche where I get to commentate like real traditional martial arts a fair bit I've done Taekwondo and

91:02karate at the Pan Am Games and I did the world sumo Championships or the world combat games I do the world wushu Championships which is kung-fu and sand ah and so I've carved out this niche where I get called for these and and develop expertise in these different areas and get to experience them and see the little details that change when you change something and so I got to commentate sumo and then after he seemed to like me and he's kind of like you we drink like does he drink vodka while you're in Russia I love Russia I do I really do I love the Russians I love that their view of combat and of artists martial arts and and stuff they're very straight like you know when you negotiate to commentate or to do some work that's just straight this is what we can pay you this is what we expect of you if you do that we're all gonna be happy like its various there's very little

91:58Frank Mir does commentary for them over there right see guys yeah he's very good Frank Mir I would hope that someone would hire him in America they can't afford him cuz it wasn't paid way too well in Russia and Russia really no kidding yeah and for him he said that's why he couldn't do a deal with Bellator no section shouldn't and and his deal with ACB who he loves and respects he's become sort of partners in there with with mr. Halcyon who runs it where Frank is now a part partner of the presentation of it went for American shows he'll be part he'll be part promoter and I think Frank may even get away from some of the commentary as much as he's good at and loves it I think he's interested in some of the other aspects of it now you know but yeah they pay very well they and they pay the athletes very very well you can be a guy that had a couple of UFC fights or a

92:51belt or fight or two they'll give you 60,000 US cash in you're handing an envelope at the end of it I mean interesting yeah that's great well it's always great that fighters have more options you know and I know Bellator has become a viable option to a lot of fighters you know like guys like Ryan Bader making good money over there now and you know and Rory MacDonald obviously who's their champion now I just think we need more of those you know I I know that Oscar De La Hoya is getting into the mix now but just the approach that he's making seems to me to be ridiculous it's old-school promoters approach get some big name and then invest all your time in that big fight but it's that's the same thing you were just talking about the UFC the challenge they face now is that we need another big one we need another big one it just seems like that that approach like we

93:40just we know okay if this wasn't the put this be the ideal approach no yeah it's never the ideal approach the ideal approach is to do the best fights possible the ideal approach is not necessarily to make the most money or to have the like the most spectacular like like when they were really promoting Ronda Rousey in the rematch with or the fight with Amanda Nunez and didn't promote Nunez at all I was I you know I was like this is crap I'm a huge Ronda Rousey fan everybody knows that you I think she's a she's a legend I mean what she did for women's MMA she essentially was the reason why the UFC decided to have women's MMA was one woman and every single woman fighting now I was here that day it just passed her by and it happens so quick you know but Amanda Nunez I I was thinking even before Holly Holm beat her Amanda Nunez was the big threat I'm like that girl can knock you

94:35dead with one punch she's such a ruthless striker and she's a Brazilian jiu-jitsu blackbelt I'm like this is a terrible matchup for Ronda I thought yeah because Rhonda's hands although good you know and getting better and you know really was starting to look like a polished striker still doesn't have nearly the kind of power that Nunez has and the ability that like Nunez Nunez is she can take it as well as receive it we just seen Ronda sort of have these blitz moments with like betch Kohei and you know and kind of romantic than bricks just smash through but when you see the overall game like vs Holly Holm then you got to see all this there's a lot of limitations here and trying to smash through the bricks if the bricks aren't there and the bricks head kick you you know I mean there's there's a lot going on there so we're seeing the layers upon layers upon

95:27layers so what happens after you get to the first layer oh well you don't have a second layer you're you this is your layer your layer is straightforward move ahead and you know coaching is to blame as well there's a lot of things there but the fact that they weren't even promoting Amanda Nunez you have the very first ever openly gay women's MMA champion in South America all his interesting aspects and she's a fun girl she's interesting you know and she's a killer man she's a killer and they just showed it in that fight they had an opportunity to make another star instead they didn't make this other star and then you look at her most recent pay-per-view I heard the numbers were abysmal Bayley I heard see if you can find out what the numbers were because someone told me I think what shop told me there were 85,000 that's scary you should be but at this point you have to stop and wonder

96:19is there anything we could do strategically different like just because something worked all the way along in any business or in anything you're doing there might be a time to take a slightly different approach or to change one of the fundamental beliefs of how we do business or something you know what I mean what you can't do is just go well hopefully the next one will be good I mean you watch that happen all the time to some massive change in your business or in life and that change at first people deny that it's there right they deny and then they say it's a niche and then they say it's a blip and then by the time that it's actually in the heat of something scary or challenging happening you've wasted two or three years that you could have used the dapping to be ready for it yeah you know what I mean no I do you know what you mean yeah I mean I think

97:06that what would you got to do when you have a champion that has spectacular results like Amanda Nunez you got to hype the out of her invest yeah invest hype the out of her and that would have made the Ronda Rousey fight I think even if you show her smashing miesha tate you show her you know smashing Sara McMann you show what she's capable of like she's a monster sure for sure and you talked to Mike Brown or anyone there who's been around the great's and there they talk about it but this level now where they are the brilliance of where what we've seen it's another example if you think that only fighting to stand up when you're in guard is right or only keeping somebody down is the game and the only thing you have to worry about is they'll stand up they'll submit you like as soon as you don't recognize where you are in in the change of the the river of life and time you

97:58sometimes get up and and you know it's a it's a fascinating thing I know I literally was just in Singapore and I just spent days with this company but they see the world differently their strategy is simply they're a they're a values based company that believes in the values of these things and tries to to show people and share martial artistry for the greater good and it's not some business it's what they truly believe they truly are going about and making choices and when chatri says I would not hire Conor McGregor because of what he represents he's dead serious because he represents his ideas is and what he sees and I shouldn't speak for him at all he's a brilliant man by the way this guy he's if he was a homeless kid with with a single parent that later became educated and then moved to America and went to Harvard and then started managing corporate funds

98:54and became a Moya Thai champion and this is all easily documented this is who that individual is and he's lived that life based on honor respect you know teamwork excellence that mind that is what built that company and one is a billion dollar company now it's a billion dollar company it's in 1.7 billion homes in Asia this isn't some mythological idea this is a guy who's built a massive company based around these values and that's a different thing he's but what does he say about Kong oh sorry yeah I go off on this no it's cool so he looks at it as the things that he says the way that and again I shouldn't speak for him this is the what I've gathered throwing things and creating conflict and controversy as your currency is not something to be proud of it's an interesting way of putting it as your currency yeah yeah you know and that sounds because and I'm not quite all

99:51that although I've drank the kool-aid I believe in what they're doing and I see it as real not only because my values line up with it but I think they are going to grow dramatically as a result of some of these the way they see the world but not only that but I'm still also immersed here and I like Connor I think of Connor I work for TSN because Connor fell out of a march to a red carpet to shake my hand while the my boss was watching you know what I mean yeah yeah like the great some of the most interesting moments I've had are with that guy and some of the most interesting you know many dozens of hours of trying to figure out what's happening and research and growth has happened by studying that guy and I see his the games that he is willing to play as part of his strategy for success as a fighter and success trying to be you know successful for his family in his

100:43future I see it all connected so I don't dislike him but I respect this this idea that conflict and controversy are not good for us I understand that but I also understand psychological warfare and I think the Conor is a master of that and that has a huge factor in victory I mean this is something miyamoto musashi use to his advantage you know when you if you read the book of five rings he what Connors doing is with people's heads to the point where they he has space in their head and then Connor goes into the cage like loose as a goose relaxed and calm so he's letting you know I don't give a about you but you give a about me and I'm gonna you up right now and you're like no you're not you better not you can I this is too much and Joe's a Aldo is the perfect example Aldo was so out of composure although charged at him with that just leaping left hook and just got

101:36waylaid on the way in and Eddie Alvarez the greatest gameday performer one of the great gameday performers we've ever seen mm-hmm and I talked to Eddie that is one of my favorites and I admire and I'm inspired by Eddie Alvarez Michael Chandler - you know those two are like the same guy almost you know almost um but Eddie was like the plan was to wrestle a lot and stay at distance and barely at all and I stayed a distance almost the whole time barely wrestled like he's just like it was real like a knot and by not accepting it was real coming in it suddenly find yourself in there and it's real and you feel different and you're you know your mind is working differently and your hormones are working differently and who you are and that moment is different and you're like holy it's real had I prepared for it to be real I could be in a different state right now but I denied that this

102:25was going to be real and now it's real real it's real I also think he got clipped early I think that's a factor you know you get caught on a chin like that and your legs give out real quick and you're just your brain doesn't work right anymore your body doesn't work right anymore I think that's a factor the the ability that Conor has to land those sharp shots that come out of nowhere and blitz you and come at you so fast you just drop those shots on you I mean his left hand is a laser beam and that's yeah that's what that is the definition of it mm-hmm he's so good at landing that shot and he's also good at landing a bunch other too man me pick you apart he's a he's a real dynamo I just I hate to see things like what happened in New York and Brooklyn he threw the dolly at the bus and smashed the window it's like so it's so stupid yeah all that thuggish running in with a bunch of

103:20other guys and everyone screaming and what was what what did kabhi do he smacked your friend in the face cuz your friend was talking so you know I mean and even the way he smacked it was pretty gentle you know I mean and Artem called him a coward and he said he doesn't fight and Connors a real fighters like listen man I know he's Russian you're Russian you guys gotta sort this out on your own that is how they sort it out yeah and it was a pretty calm sorting out in my opinion they didn't stomp him they didn't beat his ass but once we get to that point I mean I get it yeah once we you're doing something and I'm responding which he responds that happens every day in gangs and wars in Northern Ireland and Ireland in all types of religions that's been going on forever nobody ever wins when that hardens it's just cause it just perpetuates it and when you watch it and then there'll be a

104:08lot of people you see this scenario and like Habib's fans or friends or supporters and Connor's and they're like oh he did this they're both wrong and nobody everybody always when somebody does something bad to somebody else they almost always feel like something was but done bad to them very few people instigate that was perceived something happens right they perceive a slight and you know some people you do one thing to them and then they're like okay now it's to Eternity right okay make any sense either no you know you look like a fool yeah like you know you just can't throw a dolly at a bus no you know filled with other fighters because it's so selfish I mean all those people that got caught you know I mean rabe or got cuts in his eyes I mean this is the whole thing is a disaster so my theory based on bits of information that that we have is that Connor on some

105:03level it's read I mean it reinforces constantly if your kid does something terrible that we know is bad and you give him candy every time they're gonna do bad yeah okay give her candy every time she does something that reward con has been rewarded he gets richer more famous more influential dat belts and he's been given candy every time he's done this and it works and I mean there is parallels in the political system in America there's parallels all over the world that by acting out in these strange ways it's so bizarre and unsettling that we reward it you know a name for a band candy for bad behavior but that's what's happening right and so now what we take it and he's and then you add the strategy element you're known about right so he's looking at it and it's like okay Habib would be a great fight I'd like to fight him Russia he likes challenges this is hard but

105:58let's do it now if I create some viral controversy which I did with with Paulie Malignaggi who's have you do you know Paulie I've only talked to him on Twitter yeah no no I love I like my love messner yeah and I like him as a dude I really do but so he created that into worked it's like okay weather how on what level he's strategizing this he's like let's go do some pushing and shoving with Habib and his guys I'm given the finger it'll be caught on cameras what do what one thing we know about Connery he's always late it's always late he didn't plan to get there when they're on a bus he planned to get there when they're in the hall he planned to get there windows a bunch of people around and security and it's easy to manage little push and little shove in a couple of cameras and all of a sudden his five million dollar payday is a twelve million dollar payday and

106:46Russia and everybody's going crazy it'll work it's brilliant but he's late so he shows up there on the bus now the cameras are out and what's he gonna do he's got to perform he came there to perform he came there to do a thing we showed up and now it now it goes sideways and that's the most likely scenario is that it was a let's do it it'll be it'll feel right for us as that's defending our friend but also it'll have some inherent value when the cameras come out and nobody will get hurt and look I think you're probably right there it's got to get a good point but obviously it's a terrible thing to do and stupid you know there's there's a way to manage that but then as people say well you know now it becomes like the WWE and you know there's there's people that love real fighting that have a real hard time with these fake WWE style scenarios where you know that

107:37whether it's Kobe Covington you know like he did a promo recently we had a girl by the pool and the girl sat in his lap and she was like obviously had a plan script and it seemed kind of corny people there's people who think that's great and there's people hate it I'm they hate it yeah I'm gonna hate it too I don't I mean I don't have a real problem with Pro Wrestling I joke around about it all the time and I get the fact that people like it I don't like that kind of bleeding into MMA I think it's dumb it's bad it's also I mean again if you're viewing it as inspiring artistry with which there are lessons to live your life on one hand and on and that's how I truly see it an interface with it and experience it and and share it and and want to see people get to feel that and then on the other hand you're putting together these weird scripts to sell paper views but I mean wrestling that

108:36stuff it came up in wrestling because it isn't inherently real you needed those extras it needed all that stuff if we understood how brilliant Colby Covington was if we understood how brilliant of a combat sportsman he was he wouldn't have to do that but he's doing that and that's what got him a title shot right so on the other side the other side of the coin were wrong you know if we understood he would get it based on that but we don't understand weed we the Royal we don't get it it's like I'll see people talk about fighting after and they'll be like there and and some people's this is their idea of covering a fight and our fans or people and everybody's entitled to their own thing but they'll be like yeah the the show is kind of a lackluster affair not a lot of finishes how could you add twenty brilliant athletes have interact and some of your opinion of how it did or didn't excite

109:27you is super valid to you but that's not what we were watching yeah but what I'm talking about is like what got him a title show what got him a title show is being an because of the reality that we live in that's what he had to do right I mean like what he did in Brazil after he beat Damien Meyer I said this is a that's literally what God in the title shot I mean if you really stop and think about it he's ranked was he ranked number three yeah he's only beaten Maya and he's beating some other people but in terms of top ten contenders in terms of like real world-class fighters there's a lot of guys that are out there that have up a lot of other people like wonderboy was like how is this guy fighting for the title and for an interim title and I'm not after he's gone through those two big fights with tyron woodley beaten Jorge Masvidal beaten all these defeating Johny

110:09Hendricks beating all these different fighters colby beat Demian Maia and that's the really the big name on his resume yeah and yeah but it's also because he's gonna be fighting ha vale dos Santos who's a Brazilian he said a lot of stupid about Brazil Brazilians hate em Brazil's a giant market it's a easy sell and this is this is what he's talked himself into and it's a tough fight don't make no mistake about the guy that beat Demian Maia is a tough fighter Kobe's a tough year and again you talk to Dean Thomas or Mike Brown and they two years back when they were taught and I would I'm a Jorge Masvidal freak right that and that's one of those special artists to me and so I'll be asking you know like when I'll see Mike or Dean or these guys or anybody around that on like hey house house Jorge doing what's he working on what does he changes and they'll talk on he's always training

110:57with Colby he's afar he's deadly he's one of the greats in the gym he'll the two of them are first their last to leave like you've heard about how good he was right under that public surface and I but I see what you're saying the based on what we've created he doesn't have much of a choice if he wants to achieve his goals other than doing it this way and the guys who are good at it jail obviously the channel it's like really good one of the best he's an entertainer yeah and don't you love jail I love try love chance okay and yet this is something I find distasteful about this art form is that game yet somehow jail is so lovable I love jail right but it's because there's a natural love of that kind of performance right and Colby and I've played around with it a little bit when I played in a band where you would be rude and arrogant and play that kind of game it's not it's

111:51hard it's hard it's hard to do it's hard when it's hard to be convincing it's also hard to be hate it all the time that's real like you know you will feel the hatred of all Brazilians who truly hate you even being real about that Brazilians are extremely patriotic very nationalistic you talk about Brazil you better duck yeah and in fact even if you were talked to you know somebody like a stereotypically passionate person we're talking about here and you said it's a joke and they'd be like you can't make that joke but like their point isn't that I don't care if he was kidding the fact that he was willing to do that isn't so disrespectful to all of us that we must slit his throat right and that's what they'll chant what he got to walk out there and they mean it yeah they do mean it but meanwhile he just doubled down even after you get hit in the head with a boomerang still doubling down

112:51swinging for the fences what other choice I guess well look it has got him to the dance and if he wins two Saturdays from this one or one Saturday how's it going next one is till and Wonder Boy yeah that's another one yeah but if he wins he will have a belt I mean it's not the real belt I mean it's an interim belt but it guarantees him a shot at the real belt yeah you know so it gets very interesting so you like I know that I might look at these sort of systems and the areas around it I have a negative bias like you know it's not about that and I know that's that's negative to me about the belt yeah or the rankings or the beefs or whatever but the belt can not mean what it meant before by the nature of once upon a time there were only ever 27 of them and now there's been 340 of them by nature it cannot be as valuable as it once was and when there's two in yours it inherently

113:55cannot have the value because scarcity is where value comes from yeah it's really just a promotional tool a marketing tool and it's a it's a questionable one you know there's there's a real good argument that it's a bad idea to have these interim title shots because you know like okay well what's the rules you just decide when to have an interim shot especially with a guy like Tony Ferguson right he beats heavenly spectacular fried triangles and waffles lost to nobody after that nobody won one the interim title and then you strip it because he falls down during a promotion he trips on some wires I mean this isn't I mean it's not like he went and did something stupid outside of fighting he was just doing a promotion he tripped on some wires so freak accident and that really if we move away all other things and just look at the systems at play and how and why

114:44it's there if he was if he had another two million Instagram followers that would not happen you're right and that's it you're right it's strictly that that is true right yeah tony was a giant huge star there's no way they would strip him know ya know and eat but by not being because he's a character he's he's an oddball he is a unique he's one of a kind we should celebrate that he's one of a kind he's an individual he's different than everybody that's a girl so if you're gonna strip Connor which they did and you have to be fight for the title the true title and you know look that's arguable whether or not you should do that I should probably - interim fights or - in durham titles would you be cool it's not beating the champion if you didn't beat the champion he beat al Iaquinta how is him beating a la quinta more valid than Tony beating Kevin Lee that's crazy it's crazy it doesn't make

115:33any sense I mean notnot taking anything away against al but al took that fight unfuck in one day's notice yeah that's even more ridiculous and awesome yeah yeah sounds great fight two was really fun yeah well there's a buncha yeah it was really fun and I like a like went is another one of these guys that's where how can you not be inspired seeing a guy that's like life is travelling along and all of a sudden you have this one shot at something you're not ready you don't have you haven't prepared in the ways you want but you know what I'm gonna go for right that's a life lesson yeah and there's also like I there's a forgiving nature to this machine that is kind of admirable like Alice created problems al has had conflict with that company and then they were still like you know what let's do this yeah they did it because they wouldn't they wouldn't use Paul Felder they Athletic Commission

116:27that's ridiculous I mean all their wisdom they decided that Paul Felder isn't ranked high enough like you don't know she don't even know we're rankings come from which is a bunch of people like hanging out who kind of watch fighting a bunch of making an arbitrary choice and then combining it like yeah do you know what I'm what a first-class and notice there is have you ever heard that term so a first-class noticer in business or any number of things as somebody who over times you start to see the different systems and how they interact with each other and you are one you clearly are a first-class notice or you see big pictures small pictures combined how the outside right now you're like well the the Commission did this but football fell to did that rankings are this way and you're a able to pull all these things together and look at it right and if you look at

117:18any of these things from that perspective of how the system's all work the whole thing barely makes sense I mean Paul Felder is brilliant yeah he's a dangerous fighting anybody 155 including khabib and committed and mentally strong and a driver a world-class striker and his striking is deadly and he's not just a striker in terms of punching like ow he's a really nasty kicker I mean ow can kick no doubt about it but Paul is a bit more achieved in his he's got more couple more weapons more complex spinning back fist and elbows and knees and nasty leg kicks and you know went three hard rounds with Barbosa and went toe to toe with them I mean he's that good good smart yeah he's a great analyst for such a young one but when you look it so you're like how is that possible because that's really hard and it's a different skill set than just being a good fighter this language and

118:13being able to rationalize things and all all these different things but you look back and he did it on the small leagues which he didn't need to do he pursued because it was of interest to him he'd pursued it to get good at it cuz he loved it which means he's predisposed to thinking that way so now you also have a thinker a fighter a incredibly dangerous striker a guy who can play complex games in it and you in your infinite wisdom don't think he can fight Habib because somebody somewhere said that he put a 7 next to his name instead of a 3 there was a lot of real real problems with their athletic commission and we won't go into depth I don't want to cause any problems but they had some real issues they're young Joe yeah there's a lot of nonsense that was going on behind the scenes but I think that what what was interesting about that fight was we got

119:04to see Al step up we got to see khabib have some issues with striking and you know we got to see I mean what what I don't like about it is this hold the hold championship thing what I don't like about this he didn't beat a champion to become a champion they just sort of like set this fight up al wasn't preparing for that fight he was preparing for a three-round fight and then Tony gets tripped all those things I don't like yeah because they don't make any sense yeah they don't really make any sense because if we go back to the if we have some kind of value root of what we're about other than the necessity to to sell things based on the same marketing that we lose we wouldn't have to be in that situation but we find ourselves there and when you're on when you're on the bottom of half guard you just have to work your way out of half guard and that's what that machine has to do and

119:54that's what you know Habib has to do and that's got an artificial stand up yeah yeah I don't know I don't know wonderboy until man that's a big fight huh that's a Saturday that's that's chaos that fight is very interesting to me I am very very very interested in that fight me too yeah I want to see what happens when till fights wonderboy because I was stunned by how easily till ran through cowboy and cowboy in all fairness is not in my opinion a real 170 he's a tweener I think cowboy would be a 165 you know and I think and maybe his struggles to make 155 maybe should be 10 pounds heavier and I think that 10 pound weight class thing is real I think that's where it should be every 10 pounds Darrin Hill is a huge guy so Steve yeah they're both very tall and and strong but till you know Greg Luiz well over a hundred and I mean well over 200 pounds yeah he's walking around at

120:59like you know 205 and and cutting down to 170 it's a good one man it's a really you know there's so many little oddball variables and unknowns right like we literally when we go and we look at these the more you've studied and analyzed and competative fighting for 20 years of your life the more you realize how little we actually know like we have about 2 or 7 or 18 percent of the actual information yeah you know what I mean and we're trying to work with it and the big one so when when Cody fought TJ um Dominick I was like I just don't see how he can win I don't see how Cody can win and then somebody say well why do you say that he knocked out I'm like yeah it's hard to get to Dominic and we've never seen evidence of him doing well after those minutes the evidence isn't there to see it right of course 100% wrong but there but you have to go by what evidence you have right

121:55have we seen or what information have we gathered that can allow us to make this decision to me Kody Garber and did not have there was no evidence he could be Dominic and then BOOM beats up Dominic and you're blown away and that's an exciting feeling and that is I think what's that play here is there any evidence that Darren till can do what Rory MacDonald couldn't do and Jorge mass fit all couldn't do and get to a guy who has that movement that blitz thinking that karate z-- those karate instincts we were talking about we've seen no real evidence of that but that doesn't mean he can't do it it doesn't mean he can't do it but there was evidence isn't there I don't know about that I was stunned by his ability to close the distance on cowboy that nasty left elbow that he landed over the top yeah the way he put him away I don't know I think that's pretty good evidence that he's a

122:44monster I agree and his fights previous in the UFC as well although they didn't have a lot of fanfare behind him you know stunning results and then you talk to people that know him you know talk to people that know his striking acumen and people that have seen him in the gym and understand what he's been through in his life he's a young guy I think he's only 25 how old's Darren toe I'm pretty sure he's 25 Celso never lost right yeah never it's a against man yeah and then you see the pictures even that's wild man and what I'm saying is I would have I would not be the slightest bit surprised if he could do it because we've seen enough overtime to know that what a 23 year old is capable of they'll see the whole game differently they'll see there are their understanding of where they are in relation to the other guy is so different that it's just on what one day all of a sudden all these

123:3525 year olds are just so good and we don't really have the language to explain why you know can we just say oh he was able to close the distance on Stephen Thompson if he does well say yes but then the question will be how when nobody else could do it how and why could he do it and that's always what obsesses me if you see him do it there is now the explanation isn't he was better at closing the distance or his range management was excellent but that's true for a bit but then my next question the next morning will be like how the did he do it what changed now what about the the entirety of the game itself the systems of the relationships of two fighters what changed in such a way because of his behavior and that's where it gets to me really really wild cuz right now nobody gets to Stephen Thompson and I mean nobody really at all sirens knocked him down twice had him

124:28really bad sir there's 50 minutes 50 minutes he had like the fight those the helmets in the fight were they engaged see the problem with those two tyron woodley fighters would they fought wonderboy the right way that's how you got to fight them you don't engage and when you do engage you got to be absolutely convinced you're gonna land and Tyron did and did land and hurt him I mean you looked at those two fights Tyron is the one who's the wrestler but he's also the one that hurt wonder boy wondering why I never hurt time in those fights know that ayran had him very close to being out and I just wonder if wonder boy is starting to slip you know you got a wonder you got a wonder if all his years of combat sports all of his years of kickboxing and me got to remember this guy is one of the most spectacular kickboxing records ever I mean what he's like 57 and kickboxing

125:14and then he gets into MMA and you know he loses to Matt Brown he gets kind of beat up on the ground comes back has some really good fights and you know it's been in there with world-class fighters and beating some world-class fighters but he's also I want to say he's 34th yeah five and there was a lot of fights although we didn't get until recently until those three examples he didn't really get hit all that much but it's still the where Stephen Thompson find out how old Wonder Boy is he might even be 35 the hips and the knees and the shoulders and that hole yeah yeah but and there's also that what he I mean he developed mastery I mean what he does yeah and once you've developed that elite elite top level of reached your highest potential it's hard to keep going mhm and then the masses start to close that distance the the general young kid start you know a kid at

126:10Tristar like some of their young guys they have that and they've had Thompson in there for years and for us has been able to study people like that up close and they all studied leo doe now the young guy can do a lot of those things at a much higher level than fighters that came before them so your level of mastery starts you plateau to a point that it's hard to go beyond it's it's really hard work and sometimes it requires you to get a little shittier for a bit to go past that Plateau weekend or get worse by having to re-examine what you believe and the way that you train or the way that you fight to break through a plateau you've got to kind of be willing to go backwards a bit and when you're fighting tyron woodley czar the world you cannot go backwards so it's kind of kind of stalls you there so but ultimately the big question also is is there some other strategy that

127:00hasn't yet been done that is a Stephen Thompson beater and that low leg kick you talked about not me so I cannot get to you so what would I would prefer when I'm fighting Stephen Thompson body lock if I can get to the body lock I'll rip him down okay to get to a body like I got a touch him that's really hard he stops me from doing that or I gotta hit him or kick him but when I do that he moves away in hits what if I can just get to the edge of his sort of bubble of hot in that hot range where he can hurt you and maybe that low leg kick is a part of that you know maybe that low leg just getting on the outside of it where you're still somewhat safe but you can smash him up a little bit maybe those are a weapon that hasn't been used well it's this is also arguably the best striker that Wonderboys ever faced in MMA arguably right I mean mas Badal is very talented striker as well but Wonder

127:52Boy is a master of that front leg and that front leg is a real tricky one because that karate style that he uses he keeps his hands down low he stands totally sideways on you and you got to get past that front leg side kick and Johnny couldn't get past it Hendricks got lit up by that front leg side kick and then front roundhouse kick to the face right afterwards it's just there's a lot going on with that front leg if you're not used to that and then if you if you get too obsessed with it the back leg comes mm-hmm yeah till is a way better on he's a way better master of distance he understands distance and strike and knows how to close that distance with explosive power very interesting really interest and before he fought cowboy his successes were fighting at distance and smashing guys who came in so he does do that he does by doing it you understand

128:42it on a different level you connect to it it is in a more tie way whereas Wonder Boy does in the crime way and Wonder Boy is fantastic at moving his waist back and forth like a snake and jump Tony is really good at - yes Tony Ferguson yeah and that so when I get to go study Santa and Kung Fu and wushu there are you know my some of my friends are like well you know like enjoy it I'm like nah that's going to be some brilliant to learn over here this and some of that long fist stuff like people will often say what kung fu is not super relevant some of that long fist reaching where I move my body through space to reach you which people would say is dangerous you get countered but yet the answer is don't get countered the answer isn't discard a valuable weapon and so you see some of that Tony does that stuff really really really well really cool he does see him

129:33work with the Wing Chun Wing Chun - when I'm sitting in your guard wanting to beat you up tell me that isn't Wing Chun just wear it - that's what that is that's what that is right yeah that mean there's techniques in every single art that are like an established realistic art that are valuable you know and there's there's got to be something in Wing Chun that people are missing for sure for sure for sure it's there and it I mean arts like that people would look at and might discard because they would think they're limited to only this scenario well that scenario happens mm-hmm if I'm in your guard and I want to fight we are that's that scenario sure so that thing may not be useful to fight you know Frank Mir but that thing will be useful in a context when you're fighting a guy like well how about Jon Jones is use of you grab his wrist and he comes over the

130:23top of the Nell bow yeah I mean that is hand trapping yeah for sure I mean it really was is what it is when he leverages Shera oh yes limb destruction oh yeah that's old school destruction yeah how and why that hasn't been Dravid hauled a lot more although you do start to see that in that moment where we're you know I get to all four I get to four points and I'm going to stand up and you just kind of decide okay that's alright we'll get back to the fence in that process of standing up a lot of guys throw a fight finishing kick there or just at least take that chance to smash your leg with one like if there's free shots that exist in these moments and John Jones is a master of finding them he really is yeah I hope they figure out what the they're gonna do with him soon I don't know where their stand now in terms of like his suspension or what-have-you but here's

131:12my ultimate goal my hope my dream is that Cormier fights deep a for the heavyweight title and somewhere around then they announce when john jones suspension is up they announced John Jones versus Brock Lesnar I just I mean look at their body types and look at what they are and where did they come from I mean I love it but I know you've sat down with John and and stuff but what did you like what did he feel like you do know what I mean like what what Reid did you get from him did you feel like he was saying the things that he thought you wanted to hear or did you feel he was being honest in genuine definitely both he's young honest and he's also had some things that he planned out I like John a lot I really loved that guy but I think he surrounds himself with a bunch of knuckleheads I think he's he's around too many people that are a bad influence and they I

132:08think he's a wild man and I think when he's a wild man around other people that are sort of indulging that stuff with him this is the word that I get not just from what I know but from the people that know him very well is that he's just around the wrong people you know he's got bad influences and I mean if you can identify that then you must change it yeah it's not it's not to take any personal responsibility away from him either because I'm sure he also makes for a bad influence to them I mean if the baddest man on the planet can live like this I'll live like this - it let's do more coke ya know let's let's party harder let's drive fast let's go drunk I don't know you know I don't know what the answer for a guy like John you know I really don't know I mean it's uh he's got to have that come to Jesus moment or not you know maybe he just keeps doing what

132:59he's doing and keeps beating everybody's ass and people keep forgiving them and hopefully doesn't wind up in jail but you should for sure get a driver you know for sure get someone to drive them around that's a bad it's a good bandage but it's not gonna be it's not the problem solver yeah the truth is I think I mean we get to live the life that we want like we get to choose the things that we do like we have free - certainly yeah to a certain extent I know free well is something that's been to see you've discussed and it's it's a fascinating concept but to some degree you know we are authoring our own lives you know and and if it isn't going the way that you want it small tiny changes can push it a different way yeah it's a matter of whether or not he's willing to make those changes and you know right now I'm sure he just wants to get his license back you know but like when I

133:47see him like having these battles back and forth with Chuck Liddell online like you gotta walk away from that yeah like Chuck Liddell is an old warrior who's clearly taking too many shots like and you know this is you know calling them an old man and saying all this stuff and it's like just be the better man in the situation you're at you're at the top of the heap right now at the top of your game you don't want some young guy doing this to you 15 years from now talking to you that way I mean this is these are the dark days but when we turn the TV on I don't care if you watch CNN or fox or CNBC or whatever or the NFL or hockey or fighting or whatever a lot of what we see is a bunch of heads who somebody has said you choose different sides or they know that's what they should do and then they just argue yeah we watch it we're taught it we see it every single day all

134:41the time drive you crazy it drives me crazy comes to fighting the sports guy talk yeah I that drives me nuts when it comes to fighting because they have this sort of robotic predetermined pattern of behavior that they apply to football and baseball and button and I just feel like fighting is more personal more intimate if there's more on the line there's more at stake it means more to me and when I see that dopey sports guy jock talk applied to fighting it makes me angry it makes me angry too but it for different reasons as well one is this this doesn't apply exactly as you said and the other one is does it even apply to football or anything because it's ritualistic like it acts as if this show doesn't exist if that's the reason it looks so we were talking about how things meanings change once upon a time that was a professional speaker now that is a rehearsed /

135:38strategized constructed artificial speaker in a world where someone watches the Joe Rogan podcast or goes on and sees Dwayne training guys or watches a supermodel on Instagram or sees what The Rock is cooking like I said we see real people everywhere so now this becomes ritualistic and artificial it's a strip club DJ hey come to the top stage it's like that predetermined sort of pattern of behavior they they adopt this pattern and you know there's a lot of people that adopt that sports guy pattern and there's a lot of shitty writers that do it too sure and they apply that insulting style of writing to combat sports and some of them have never been inside a cage most in life and then barely even trained ya know it's if you if you have not been kicked in the head in front of your mother you have no right to criticize ever saw me fight I god I got I wouldn't want that pressure a couple of

136:40punches happen and and I get caught in the guillotine and I'm thinking I'm okay and I'm driving my shoulder in and I start to go out and I'm just and I kind of hit him in the top and I look up and my mom is right there she's right there and I my mom my family is wonderful right like I got the best wife that humans have ever had in my parents and and her parents I'm surrounded by great people but and I know that my mother who literally was looking at me like I'm proud of you you know don't worry this happens but my memory has are going well no she's probably just sad sure she's gonna shake her yes it was if you haven't been through that if you haven't experienced failure if you've ever been carried out on a stretcher as everybody boos you or felt victory or been terrified you cannot logically criticize them because you don't understand well yep the thing if you haven't done it if you

137:38have some respect for it I'll respect you just just understand what they're going through I don't think you necessarily have to have gone to war to be a war correspondent no to understand that to talk about you don't have to have shot someone to be able to understand what people are going through or at least try to comprehend it but have some respect about it there's a way to criticize technique in movement without being insulting and I think this is a part of the problem with this the sports guy attitude is an insulting attitude it's a judgmental one yeah it's judgmental and mocking and I think they played at Johnny lunch box I think they play two dum-dums and I just that it really hurts my feelings when I see that sort of strategy applied to covering mixed martial arts yeah and and like I said it acts as if as less and less people consume this older but valid

138:31interface television less and less and more and more are consuming other things that are different and new and and stuff it's bizarre that the old one starts to say yeah well we still do it this way you can't do it that way because people now it looks weird and old yeah now it looks it's context has changed because we have seen thousands we've seen what Michael Chandler ate today and how he held his son and this guy is saying well you know the striker versus grappler like and it's just they haven't evolved yeah you have to do anything do you have to really step in and this applies to us all you have to reach that where you are and what its meaning is and realize oh technology change the audience changed the world changed my life changed the economy changed the market all of these things have changed I'm still the same I meant I'm a dinosaur that doesn't make

139:22sense I can't do that I must change and but the reason sports television the NFL or many of these things new doesn't is it starts out that there are innovators so in fighting it was Dana Wyatt in the fatigue 'iz and you guys and that this vital young innovative creators and then as it grows you need organized thinkers you need people who can organize and structure something so that it can grow the problem is they get really good at structuring hierarchies they get really good at structuring business in such a way that they are then in charge and then when it changes you need those creatives again but there but these structure guys are there and they've built these formulas that they are then bound by where it's like well of course we're going starting with the opening shot and then we're gonna go we're right here in Brazil shot of Christ the Redeemer and then we'll go

140:12and here we've got oh it's a unbelievable matchup with the winner gets a title shot those are rituals it was a bizarre formulaic rituals created when they mattered and they were valuable by highly intelligent people that didn't know they were required to make this work but now you need different people you need a different thought you need crew the creatives back in and they usually don't want that yeah I think I like your point about different approaches and I think one of the best ways to maybe perhaps have a different approach is to have more intense coverage of training footage okay you know and I think they're doing that with the embedded series those online things I'd like more people to check those out I think if more people got an understanding of how much is involved in this like when people get injured and pull out a fight it's like some people will freak out and complain

140:59and write a bunch of stupid like I don't know what happened to Americo cro cop but you can't say anything bad about him superhero he's a superhero the guy if that guy pulls out of a fight you gotta go well he obviously must be too hurt to fight and this is part of the game you know I mean but I've read some ridiculous that people have said about Mirko online like I went to Canelo's page the other day oh my god there's pictures of Canelo Alvarez and people are you know judging his body and saying he looks tiny now and and there's all these emojis of pills and needles all throughout his entire Instagram post is the comments are ruthless just ruthlessly in I mean this is the world we live it is I did a breakdown on Vitor and like you know he go in and Instagram is the least in my experience is the least negative because it's the newest what's the most probably YouTube I agree yeah probably

141:57cuz that's the oldest right it's the yeah because as things get older and a lot of negativity is around and positive people leave positive people leave because they go on they're there on the early part of the technological adoption lifecycle positive people are innovators and early adopters and they go on to the newer things and you leave behind the people who are negative and made the whole place go septic and then they desire you with each other I wonder I wonder if that's the case I would never really figured out what is wrong with YouTube comments but they're so ruthless like whenever have a liberal woman on in particular who you have on with an open mind and are interested in their perspective some of them are my friends like javi Martin when she's on I don't even touch those Commons or Whitney when Whitney Cummings is on I mean I don't look at the comments period

142:47period but if I did those would be the last ones that I would look cuz they've looked at him before I liked Whitney contacted me and she's like what in the don't reactions I don't taste the poison that wherever the positive people are if you're gonna spend time and I like to because if 50,000 people watched me do a breakdown that means a lot to me yeah and if 60 of them commented I'm gonna if I can schedule in the day 45 minutes I'm gonna take the time and thank as many of them as I can but only we're the good one where the positive ones are not that I want to be reinforced that what I'm doing right but I'm not gonna spend the time on people who are going through life so negative that I can't get through to them anyways somebody is going through life looking for something and trying to to either be inspired or learn something or buy positive those are the people that you

143:38should spend time with and it's also like the reverse of giving candy it's your kid when they're bad it's like don't go give those people candy when they're negative you want them to get away from that you want their lives to get better which you will if they stop having that behavior yeah maybe some of them are just so broken they just like their structure is so poor the structure of their thinking is so poor and you know all a lot of them are like shut-ins and there's a lot of people with mental illness that are just constantly commenting I mean then there's the the argument to kill the comments but then people get furious at you we had an issue for a while and it was an accidental issue and the issue was during the stream we don't allow the live chat because it was always like kanji mothers are because people are just trying to get attention if we read that stream while

144:31we were doing the show the show would be inexorably altered you know you would you'd you'd be altered by like what but what are you saying don't say that like you would read it and that would be the show the show would be these people as well as you well it's just not necessarily or sorry because of the fact that we had the comments killed during the live feed you couldn't you couldn't chat during the live feed when we would transfer it over to YouTube the comments would be disabled and people went crazy and I had a tweet about it but look I'm not disabling the comments I don't know what this glitch is but they're gonna figure it out but Shaab decided to disable his comments on purpose and do they went crazy and they were attacking him but what are the numbers that give a like you have you ever commented on a YouTube video have you ever watched a YouTube video and commented I don't

145:26think I ever have I never have either anybody worth a that has like that's the part of the problem it's like I know there's some really positive comments and people were healthy people were just interested in debate and discussion about particular topics but when you're dealing with all these negative people like what are the numbers if you have a million people watching a YouTube video or you'll be talking about 100 people a thousand is it even a think it's a 200 it might not even be a hundred you might dealing with like 30 yeah you know I mean and they're the ones are gonna be mad that you disable the comments but does that really matter and it is this is keeping that that cesspool open keeping that commode open for them to dump their verbal diarrhea into you is that really feeding the bait is that giving the kid candy for being an is it the same thing maybe maybe I once

146:15saw you stand and talk to 600 people who came to your show you had an in-depth conversation chemtrails this and fighting that with each of them in the eye you spent for sure four hours when you took a bunch of friends out for dinner and he invited me which was really cool that way thank you i brag about all of that and then I saw you walk across that was four hours for sure okay two to four hours I don't know the exact number then I see you walk across the casino and in that time you do it again for another half-hour as you know Joey Diaz and then we sit down and somebody comes over as soon as you sit down and they say hey can I and you go off man a meeting that's the guy who will tell the world Joe Rogan's an you can't just stop your meal every time someone comes over it was 800 inter like human deep interactions meaningful interactions that one can off well I don't want to say

147:15off I just think that people have this distorted idea of space that they should just be able to invade your space where you literally have a mouth full of food yeah I mean I've had it happen I've had it happen while I was feeding my daughter have her in my lap he'll I get a selfie you definitely can't get a selfie right now I'm feeding my daughter get the out of here man that's just a misunderstanding of space yeah and you're human yeah like there it is a strange thing I mean I didn't watch my wife was asking me because I was in Singapore if I watch The Royal Wedding I'm like it not understand the motivation for doing it but those are still humans yeah like those are still people there and that's people don't understand that woman she died side this way here yeah you know what I mean they just they're people and can you imagine if the person asks you why

148:11you're feeding your daughter somebody did that maybe the first time you'd be like well I can't believe it's good one stupid selfie with me but after that it would be you're still living your human life yeah only one you have you just can't interrupt people while they're sitting at dinner with their family or with their friends sitting there cutting food up it's just like they don't owe you that like and you shouldn't ask for that it's just not the way to do it it's just not and you got to know when people can't stop they just can't just say hi can you just say hi yeah no one can say hi everybody wants to dress up their Facebook everyone needs that selfie it's just like we're wearing a weird space with that stuff that that whole social media because people want something from you that they get up to it's not just their fan and they want to say hi they want something from you

148:56to make them look cool right and it's like you can give them some currency it's like you're a Pokemon and they can pick you up and and get a point it's weird so I I told you I was in oh Fabricio Werdum got flat and he was just gonna fight in Russia I think against all neck yeah yeah yeah well that's not a that's a wrap that's a wrap on that well he's 40 years old trying to compete in something that's a young man's game that's the thing it's like you can get mad you can get outraged and that's a reasonable result or a reasonable response if you want but if you rationalize if you have empathy it's like this guy still wants to do this thing that his body won't allow him to do and so he's willing to to bend the rules to attempt it he failed and now he's gonna have to pay the consequences yeah it's a month after his knockout loss to Volkov Volkoff him up man that got an juris that guy's

149:53dangerous being a long tall knockout artist the heavy weight thing is a whole other thing the whole other thing man and when you get these seven footers that can kick ass like Volkov that's a nightmare what is he like he's at least 611 right scary he's a big guy he's bigger than them for Doom by a lot so call it six six six seven somewhere in the range right and for Doom islets six four right somewhere around them let me ever met Brett Rogers who's Brett Rogers and now Brett Rogers have fought Brett grim Roger yeah yeah yeah that guy that's the biggest person ever really yeah like I don't know what it was about his frame but I was trying to interview and it's only six nine or six eight or something but it was the physical frame of him and I was just like it was so wild I saw Triple H and a restaurant one time I was like whoa like giant dude yeah these

150:46these big big athletes like this like what the force that they can generate like in Ghana that ability to to create that type of power and impact this is a crazy picture of in Ghana standing next to a professional basketball player anagon who looks like a tiny person so we're yeah God it looks like I look what I stand next to him yeah not quite as much contrast but pretty ridiculous but there it is look at that we just there's there's more always but I have a chihuahua of a chihuahua and you have your duck beside each other and you're like that can't be the same species I know it's weird right then humans are just like dogs in that way you know we vary so wildly nurse I know hey listen dude let's wrap this up yeah tell people where they can get your breakdowns and your MMA stuff if you're from Dublin Ireland I'm there doing my one-man show June 22nd how often you doing this I'm

151:42doing this will be the fifth I think you know and there was one practice one sort of friends and family I learned a lot from it then Winnipeg then London Ontario and I did because I knew you know ha manic and I've got some good friends there that would be supportive and that was good then I sold out a little venue in Toronto and went really really well and then now Ireland so it was 22nd in in Ireland on my Instagram page you can click through but and John Kavanagh is can be my guest beautiful website it's coming up okay it literally could be coming up today or in the next couple of days I think it's Robin black mmm a.com and Robin black MMA on Twitter yeah and Instagram and if you follow me on Instagram I set out to do a hundred breakdowns in three months and I've done 118 that's how you try to develop mastery you just got to be prolific it's how you

152:29develop a great following you know it's awesome appreciate your breaks products let's do it again please Robin black ladies and gentlemen