JRE MMA Show #23 with Alexander Gustafsson

00:00Come down here and hunt something sometimes. Yeah, man. Come down. A lot of wild pigs out here. Alexander Gustafsson, ladies and gentlemen, we're live. Good to see you, buddy. What's happening? Good to be here. I'm good. I'm good. You uh you just recovering from shoulder surgery? Did you have a shoulder What you have done? Uh I was wrestling. I was in practice. I I got taken down, believe it or not. I got I got I actually slammed and and I landed on I was I was like trying to post with my arm and I was slammed, so just felt something in my shoulder basically and it didn't hurt at first. I was trying to stand up and I felt it was just a mess in there. And after that I went to hospital and from there I've been I've been I've been rehabbing. I got a plate inside. Oh, wow. A plate? Yeah, I took it out now in like uh end of last year. But I had a plate for a couple of months, yeah.

00:50What was the extent of the injury? Uh nothing was broken. It was more like the collarbone just just uh dislocated dislocated, ripped apart from my shoulder, so they had to put it back in, put the plate on, three screws down. That's the first real injury I had for my whole career. I had bruises, stitches, and all that, but this is the first real I had some probably in my back, but Pull this thing right in front of your face there, so it's Sorry. Yeah, but it's under your Viking beard. It's getting muffled up. So, were there tendons torn or ligaments or Yeah, ligaments, tendons, everything just torn apart. Wow. So, they just stitched it all back together again, put a plate in there. Yeah. And now I've just been I've been rehabbing. I feel fine. I'm 100% now, so I've been I'm in training. So, how many months was it? Well, this happened in August and uh

01:41yeah, I took away the plate end of last last year and I've been rehabbing for a couple of months, so yeah, I have 6 months totally, maybe. Oh, yeah. So, I was when you grabbed the bow and you're pulling it back, I'm like, maybe I shouldn't have him do that. That's like you know, that that kind of movement is like bench press I'm fine now. I'm good. I'm good. I'm It's all good. That's good. that bow was powerful, though. I didn't expect that. Yeah. It's no joke. It's good. It's good training. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's definitely good like back training. If you wanted to work on those muscles. They're very specific. 100%. Yeah. But um so, when you do that, do you go through Are you doing like platelet-rich plasma and all sorts of different therapies to try to like accelerate the healing? Well, I I I've done I've done I've done my I've done my physical rehab. I've done a lot of like uh uh

02:38I don't know the They were in English, but a lot of acupuncture acupuncture. Yeah, a lot of a lot of massage, a lot of rehab and lifting small weights. Mhm. Really boring stuff. I hate that stuff. I I I hate it so much, but you just have to do it. It's just tiny weights. I started with that and then I've just been increasing and Now that's it. Boring ass rehabbing. You you know, obviously I'm a big fan of yours and I was very worried when um after the Glover Teixeira fight, which I thought was like your masterpiece I appreciate that. Thank you. Well, just you've always been a very very good fighter, but when you see a guy hit this new level, that's what I felt like you were in the Glover fight. I was like, Jesus Christ. Like that combination that you finished him off with was That was some video game That was crazy. It was like for yourself, too, right?

03:30He was just standing there. He was just standing there and I just he ate my shot. He ate my uppercuts. Yeah, uppercut worked all night. It was crazy. Um so, then when I heard that you were injured after I'm like, ah, Like you were just catching your stride. It was just a a perfect performance. That's what I felt because I felt like like you said I I had I had everything's going I had such a flow in in training, in in life generally. Everything felt really good. And I'm hungry. I I was motivated. I'm I'm I'm very motivated. But that that time after that that win and and Glover is a tough opponent and everything went so well in with the fight and everything and and uh I felt I felt really good. And then this happened, so so it it was it was a big setback, but uh but what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right? So, I just kept working on it and and uh I just

04:24I just like I'm just I I just looked forward and and uh I got a goal in my sight. That's it. Well, the one thing that is good about something like that is it really gives you time to pause and reflect and pay attention to all the other aspects of your game. And you're such a footwork-heavy, movement-heavy guy as it is. thing, footwork. Yeah. But that's it's so unusual for a guy as tall and as big as you to be so agile and have so much footwork and movement. I mean, it must be a giant asset for you in fighting. It is. And for for the Glover fight, I could do that for 10 rounds. You know, I wasn't tired at all. I was just I did my thing and I was out of there. I wasn't in his pocket. I wasn't in his range. I did my thing again and I was out of there. I could do that all night all night long and that that's also a thing like I knew I always had it, but after that fight I

05:15really felt that this this is working. This is my thing and this is what I'm going to use and I'm going to get better at it. I'm going to get better in everything the whole game, but this is my this is my key thing. This is it. And I know movement, footwork If I fought DC like I fought like I fought Glover I'll beat him. I'll beat him all day long. I'm telling you, I'll beat him. Well, it was a very close fight the first time you guys fought. Yeah, but I yeah, I I was but I still didn't I didn't do it enough, man. I was I was in his pocket too much. One of the things that I really like about you, Alex, is that when you talk about yourself, you're very hard on yourself. You know, like I like that. I One of the things that you said is that you're never satisfied. This is the life of a high-level athlete, never satisfied. Never. Never. I I just I just want to improve all the time. And I've

06:02always been that guy. I've always been that that person always had to take the hard way in stuff. Learning learning new stuff I have all the all the time take the new the hard way, you know, to I always had to take a beating first before I win. And that that's that's how it's been and and and that just make me stronger and and I got the fire in me. It just grows. Yeah. Well, you're still young. I mean, how old are you now? 31. Not that young. That's young, though. I mean, when you think Consider how long you've been fighting in the UFC. I mean, how old were you when you had your first fight in the UFC? 21, 22. That's crazy. years now. That's crazy. It's 10 years. Do you think about yourself as 21 fighting in the UFC? Like, what? Yeah, no, it's it feels like But I think it it it's it's 10 years 10 years, it's always 10 years, but it feels like it was yesterday. I'm sure.

06:48Time runs especially in particular in this business because your life is it's all about the next fight. It's always planning for the next fight, the next fight, so years are just passing me by. Well, you also have constant growth and improvement, but it gets tested in these big jumps like every three times a year, two times a year, whatever it is your schedule that you're fighting on. Yeah. You get these big tests and you get to find out how applicable everything that you've worked on is. Yeah. Yeah. That that's that's how it is and and and you you feel you feel after that test you just feel like what's next? Yeah. What should I do next? What what's what's the next improvement? What's what's what's the next opponent? Where's the belt? Well, stuff like that, you know. When you get off of a like you had like one of the most spectacular fights with Jon Jones. I mean, down to

07:41the wire, like as close as it gets. And when you get out of a fight like that where you almost won the title against the greatest of all time. Like what is what is that feeling like and where do you go from there? Uh I I you know, it was tough. It was really tough because you know, everybody was saying like, you're winning this fight, you're winning this fight. You had three rounds against him. Like you're winning this fight. Like if it felt like like you said, it wasn't it was just it was just right there at the goal line. You know, I didn't really pass that goal line at all. I just felt like that uh it was tough. It was tough. But but but like now, sitting here now talking to you it's a big it's a really good experience for me and and you know, I really it was a good time for me. The fight was is a highlight in my career for sure, in my life for sure. It was such a close

08:37fight. When the when the scorecards are being tabbed and you you know, you're just sitting there waiting for the decision, did you think you had it? Uh you know, I didn't know. Right. I didn't know. I didn't know. chaos. Could you even remember what had happened over the last five rounds? I remember I remember I remember the I remember the fight uh and I got uh I remember almost the whole fight, but it was just Jon Jones is such a beast. He's he you know, I'm telling you just for me Jon Jones winning over Jon Jones is bigger than taking the belt. I'm telling you, that guy is the guy is is such a beast and and uh Yeah, what was the question? Just No, it's okay. I mean, express yourself. That's fine. I mean, I I agree with you. He is a beast. You know, I'm I'm very disappointed with all the stuff that's happened to him, obviously, and especially the most recent one, which I really

09:32I really believe based on the evidence is a mistake. I think I think he got a hold of something tainted because if they they tested him before that, he was negative. They tested him after that, he was negative. And what he tested for was such a minuscule amount. There's no way it was something that Yeah, there's no way. Like according to Novitsky and according to USADA, according to like how they test people, what whatever he consumed must have been an extremely small amount. It wasn't an amount that would have had any benefit whatsoever in terms of performance performance enhancing. Well, they know their thing. So, you know, you know, if just let the you know expert handle that. I don't know what to say. I I know for a fact that he's been in that same situation a couple of times. This is not the first time. So, you know, it's Well, he definitely is a wild He is. He is. He is.

10:25He definitely does some he probably shouldn't do, but Yeah, 100% man. But, uh, I mean But, the thing is it's so stupid because he is what it is. He is he is the best guy pound for pound out there. He's done things nobody else has done. He's he he is just a beast and still just comes up all the time. He doesn't even need that steroids. He doesn't even need that in him. He's he's still the best guy out there. I don't think he took anything. I really don't. But, I You need a guy like that. You need a guy like that out there. Like to to bring you to your full potential. Do you agree? Yeah, I agree with you. Agree with you. Yeah, I know. Like I said to you, fighting him and beating him, that's bigger than taking the belt right now. That's how I feel because he is Look what he did to DC, man. Yeah. And DC is tough. He's really he finished DC. That's that's just insane. So, It is

11:19just insane. Yeah. And he finished him with a kick that DC said he's never going to hit him with. Yeah. That's crazy. That's insane. Yeah. You're never going to hit me with that left high kick. Oh, bam. Yeah. He just look for the opportunity and takes it. Yeah, tendencies are crazy. It's just some of them just get so ingrained in the way your body moves and the way you operate. he's he he's an expert what he of course he he what what he's doing and he's he's studying his opponent very well. Uh, everything is just such planned in details for the fights and he just he knows exactly when he should go for that or that or that and staying creative and and using his fantasy and it's amazing to see. Yeah, that Jackson Wink John team is a truly exceptional team. I mean, they they really did do phenomenal with him. Now, where you're at now is a very interesting situation

12:08because Jon is in exile. No one knows what's going to happen in terms of how long he's going to be suspended. DC is now fighting Stipe Miocic for the heavyweight title and who knows what's happening there. I mean, that Does that bother you cuz it seems like it kind of like puts the 205 title in limbo? It does. Yeah. It does. I I didn't see that coming at all. DC Stipe fight at all. You know, it's a it's a it's a great fight for for them and for the fans and for the sport, but you know, for us standing in standing in line we just you know, we just sitting there on our on our like we just sitting there and waiting for for an opportunity and it's not going to come. It's not going to be there. So, you know, and and and uh you know, I I will that that's also a thing that's been motivating me a lot because uh, after the fight with Glover I got injured and and all that and and I was

13:02really looking forward to come back and and and make make a really strong uh performance you know, a very strong next performance. I just really wanted to I I had my eyes on that gold and and and then they they made I I actually counted almost you know, fighting DC. But, then then it was all gone by him going up to Stipe. So, so it's it's a crazy situation. The the whole division is is it's just crazy right now. Yeah, it really is because that fight is not even going to take place until July. So, here we are in April, May, June, July. We have 3 months till that fight takes place. I know. So, that fight and then obviously at least 3 months, most likely more before the title could be challenged again. So, that's We don't even know if he's coming if he comes back in. Right. He might not. what happens in that fight. Plus, once he gets used to eating again

13:55Like you know, DC DC wins I I see I see I see it in pictures now. I you know, I'm going to meet him a couple of days. He he looks a little bit, you know, heavy right now. Well, he was uh on TV the other day eating potato chips. Like man, you're in camp. What the you eating? No, he love that. Yeah, he loves food. That's for sure. I mean, and I you know, you look back at his performance in Strikeforce as a heavyweight and it was phenomenal. good. Phenomenal. Yeah. He didn't lose. No, he didn't lose at heavyweight and He's good. tossed around gorillas like Josh Barnett. Yeah. Lifted him up like nothing. Crazy. Right? You know, this fight against Stipe it's uh you know, if it would be another against another heavyweight, I'll probably say Stipe is going to win this fight. But, DC is like you said, he's he's a really good heavyweight. So, who knows what happens. Well, his wrestling

14:42is just so next level. Yeah. It's such a it's an interesting position cuz Stipe is a very good wrestler, but of course DC's world class. He is world class and he he doesn't take one step back, man. He just comes at you. Yeah. He's he's just in your face. You know, it's But, it's tough to count out Stipe, too, because Stipe is the pound for pound consensus best heavyweight ever. I mean, the guy has defended the title more than anybody. Look at his resume, it's impeccable. Knocks out Junior dos Santos, knocks out Overeem, beats Francis Ngannou who's everybody's scared of. I mean, No, he's a badass. He's a badass. Yeah. So, you know, but DC it's he's such a competitive guy. You know, he he he doesn't want he doesn't take a step back and he just goes for even if even in tough situation, he just he just eats it and comes back and do what he do always. And the for for being a fat guy that guy

15:36that guy works. He's screaming at you right now. Hey, man, settle down. But, but that guy is is doing five rounds like nothing. Yeah. So, the conditioning is is on top. Yeah, he just eats the wrong food. That's all it is. I mean, I mean, maybe some of it's genetic. I just think he's just eating the wrong food. I mean, there's evidence. He has wider hips, shoulders. Yeah. I mean, there's evidence. It's not like I'm just talking out of my ass. I've seen him eat the wrong food. Yeah, me too. Me too. But, yeah, nothing but respect for that guy. He's an awesome human being, too. Yeah, he's a great guy. He's a fantastic guy. Have you ever thought about fighting heavyweight? It crossed my mind from time to time, but I I feel I'm I'm I'm not done with I'm not not done in light heavyweight yet. I have still things to do. What do you walk around at? I'm heavy. I'm heavy. Like what?

16:26I'm calling DC fat, but I probably shouldn't say anything. Yeah, but you have an excuse. I've been in America for for for 2 days. I I gained directly 10 lbs just being here. All our GMO food you up. So, like what what when you normally are getting down to 205, what do you walk around at? 2 you know, maybe I start my camps 235. Really? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I go up to 240 sometimes. No kidding. Wow. Are you healthy at 240 or are you just like I'm moving like never before. It's crazy. Really? Yeah, I do. I got some speed in my my my my footwork. I just Do you feel good at 240? I feel pretty good being heavy. I do. And and I feel strong. I feel strong I'm sparring big guys. I'm sparring heavy guys and I feel really strong in in being a heavyweight, but but like I told you, man, I'm I'm not finished in light yet. Like I said. I understand, but how much of you gets

17:22diminished in that cut to 205? Not that bad. It's like, you know, when I start because off season I do maybe off season I do I do eight to 10 sessions a week. I don't stress. You know, I I don't eat food. I of course I have sometimes I drink a couple of beers or I have a a pizza whatever, you know, I'm a I have to live I have to live sometime, you know, but but it's uh good you know, good good regular meals doing a little bit of lifting some some some some weights and and I don't I don't you know, when I start when I stop my camps, it's like my body feels like okay, it's time now to to start working here and and and I start doing my sprints and my my my miles on the treadmill. I'm you know, from one week to another I maybe lose like 10 lbs. It's crazy. It's it's like my body just knows okay, it's time to work and then I just drops like nothing. Wow, so your body is just

18:19accustomed to the drop. Yeah. And I feel it's because you know, I've done it many times. So, it's just like you know, the routines. No, I know you do a lot of hunting and you were showing me some photos before the podcast. Do you incorporate wild game into your diet? That's all I do. Yeah. That's all I do. I I I won't say never, but I barely buy anything from the store when it comes to meat or all that. I just hunt I just hunt everything I eat. I try to support my family with with with with with what what I'm hunting. You know, we got a I'm hunting a lot of wild boars. We have a lot of wild boars in Sweden. I'm hunting deers. We have red deer, fallow deers. Uh, we got moose. Um, you can't compare the meat. It's it's so it's it's so as long as it's it's a it's a science just to cook it right. But, if you cook it right and and you know what you're doing, it's the

19:10best thing ever. Yeah, I agree and I've always wondered like as a professional athlete what it would be like like whether or not you see the benefit in eating such protein rich nutrient dense meat as opposed to pasture raised or farm, you know, cattle you can't compare it. Yeah. You can't compare it and and and and and everything around it, too, you know, the suffering they do like it's it's not a good it's not a good business at all. I don't like that business. I don't want to support it at all. So, I I rather do my hunting. No, I agree. And I mean, there's to me it's the best way. If you're going to eat meat, it's absolutely the best way. But, what I'm thinking is like I don't know a lot of pro athletes that only eat wild game and only hunt wild game. But, I would think that there would be a great benefit in that. 100% 100% you you can't get better nutrition to your body than

19:57eating eating that meat. It's the best thing there is. You know, I I feel even like just take How do you feel after eating like a like a 400 400 400 400 g uh steak after eating like a 400 g whatever deer it is you've been hunting. You don't feel the same. You don't feel you don't feel tired. You don't feel like you're getting this food coma and stuff like that. You feel fresh. You feel fresh. It's weird, right? It's a wild game has a almost an invigorating sensation to it when you eat it. Like it It You feel strong. You feel strong. You feel good about doing it because How long have you been hunting? Uh I've been hunting since I kid. I grew up on on a farm and and my my dad was hunting a lot as when I was a kid and then I didn't hunt for a for a long time and I get back to it 2012 actually. I took my license and and and I just and after I've been hunting

20:55if I don't train I'm I'm outdoors. If I don't train I'm outdoors. And we have seasons in Sweden so it's not like you're hunting all year round. Right. But but I make sure I I I fill the freezer under those seasons. Um so yeah, when I'm not training I'm hunting. That's awesome, man. Well, you don't use bows there though. It's not it's illegal. right? Yeah. A lot of European countries. I know in Spain it's legal. Oh yeah. Okay. Spain where you said you hunted those red deer? Yeah. You can I have a friend of mine who lives in Spain. He's a big bow hunter. Oh okay. Okay. No, it's only rifles in Sweden. Yeah. But that works too, man. It works. I mean it's the most effective way for sure. And you obviously can shoot them at a higher distance and a lot of people think it's more humane, too. If you're not good with a bow, they're right. Yeah. You know. But it comes to the feeling of being

21:43outdoors, being close to the to the to the being close to the animal and stuff like that. I don't even think you can compare it to to to actually bow hunting. You have to It's a whole another technique. It's a whole new way to to hunt. Well, a guy like you who loves challenges, who thrives off of that, you would you would thrive off of that. it, but if if I would if I try I probably love it. Listen, man. I'll hook you up. I appreciate that. Yeah, I'll be back. I'll be back. My friend John Dudley is tall like you, too. So he'd be the perfect guy to coach you. He could explain it to you and take you out on a hunt. Yeah, no. I can't wait, man. I love that. Well, especially wild pigs. There's a a place that he has in Oklahoma that they they hunt a lot of wild pigs. I mean they just have to eradicate them. There's so many of them. I heard about it. Yeah. It's too many It's too many.

22:24It's I heard it's and how they hunt them, too, is kind of crazy. Oh, the ones in Texas where they do it from helicopters? that on YouTube channels and stuff like that. Going crazy down there. They just have to. There's I mean Texas is so big and there's so many pigs. There's millions and millions of pigs there and they're constantly breeding. Yeah. Yeah. They'll have like three, four litters a year and each litter they'll have four, six piglets and they just keep going and going and going and going and there's no end. Wow. And they don't have very many predators. A few mountain lions take them out occasionally, but for the most part they just running and gunning and they keep breeding. Do they get big in here? Yeah, they get big. Yeah, they get big. Several hundred pounds. Yeah. That's crazy, man. to see three, 400 lb pigs. Wow. In Swee- In Sweden there we have a couple of

23:09them, but they don't get that big though. Uh the thing is how we hunt them in Sweden is when the farmers when they, you know, they they have all their acres and all the, you know, the lands they actually call us in cuz the pigs Yeah. Yeah. To help them out and we just out there all night. The sun never goes down in Sweden summer times. Oh, really? Now we have like a midnight sun. Uh-huh. So it it's so cozy being out there. It's It's kind of warm. It's nice. You going around. You checking the lands and it's it's pretty good, man. You You would like it. I'm sure I would. I've only been to Sweden once for the UFC when I was there, but I loved it. Stockholm's beautiful city. Fantastic. Really really enjoyed it there. Thank you. Very nice people, too. Oh, they are. They are. They are. So thanks. So how did you get aligned with Alliance? How did that How did that wind

23:54up happening where you started coming to America to train? And how far into your career was that? Right after the Phil fight. Really? Yeah. Right after the Phil fight. And back then we didn't we didn't have those resources in in in Stockholm at all. And you say Phil Davis we're talking about Yeah. Yeah. Phil Davis. Yeah. Yeah. Mr. Wonderful who is also an Alliance fighter. Yeah. Which is pretty cool, man, that you guys fought and then you went to train with him. Yeah. But how did that work out? It went good. You know, he he just kicked my ass the first first couple of times before I started learning the the the whole wrestling part and how you have to defend a takedown and after that I just become good at it and and I I really enjoy coming coming down here meeting the guys and training. It's a whole another type of life. Well, it's so cool that he, you know, accepted

24:42you after you were opponent, too, and had you come and and learn with him. Yeah, you know, I we we just talked after the fight right away and and you know, I I just I just swallowed my pride and I just talked to the talked to him after the fight and like now he invited me over and and and uh I can we just came meeting my coach who just came over and we had no idea what to expect and I remember we just we just landed now we landed at night time so we went to the gym to sleep. I woke up the the the day after and I was hitting someone hitting the bags down there like in the in the in the mat area. Like early now. Super early. I'm like, "Who is this?" I went down. It was Phil. He was hitting the bags and I felt so like, "Oh damn, I have to do this, too. I have to Then we then we started to like, you know, train together. So it was a really good time and then he came actually down to

25:36to us to help me out with with Glover to share, too. So he went to Sweden? Yeah. I went to Sweden for yeah for a couple of weeks. So and he fought Glover, too, and and that and you know, it's it means so much to me to to have these guys training with me, you know, with Phil, Ilir Latifi. We have Jimi Manuwa and all those guys. Such a such a great great guys and love training with them. And it it makes my training just I just steps up. You know, steps up even more. We have we have bunch of guys. We have like Russian coming in. We established a really good place now in at Allstars in in Sweden in Europe around around Europe and and getting so much good guys and my and my level of fighting just rises through the top, man. I'm telling you if if if I if I spar with Phil, Jimi or or Ilir I just feel like every day it's every day is a fight. You know, you you can't be relaxed. You

26:28can't just throw a jab and don't care about the counter. You have to such amazing training. It's really good. too, over the last decade the level of talent that's coming out of Europe has just escalated. It's been so different. It's so big and the wrestling, too, which is a big part of it. So much more wrestling. So much so much more talent. Exactly. Now we Now we have we have we have guys coming from from from Uzbekistan. We have different Russian countries down there that are coming in and those guys are beasts. I'm telling you they are beasts. And and they're they're they're driving their their their double legs, their takedowns. They and they eat they eat shots though. They eat shots. They take it like nothing and they just comes at you. So they make they make they make me work a lot and and yeah, it's it's that's exactly what I need. Exactly what I need. Yeah, that's

27:15been one of the more interesting things over the last five or six years is the rise of the Russians. Yeah. So many from the Soviet former Soviet Union. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now they're they're and they have they have such a they have such a working capacity. They they they work a lot. We have a couple of guys down at the gym now and you know, they they're at the gym when I come to the gym, they're at the gym when I leave the gym. They never leave. Oh wait, they're living there though. So they never leave basically, but but you're on the mats. Yeah, we have we have we have a facility that we so people can stay and and and you know, train. Oh, that's excellent. Yeah. Yeah. So so but they they just work, man. They work all day long. That's a great asset to have a facility where people can train and live there. I know American Top Team put something like that in. Winklejohn and

28:03Greg Jackson put something like that in. That That That's got to help so much where young guys who don't have much money, but you know, want a place to train. 100% It's a really good way to also to, you know, give something back, man. It's you know, they have they have they they have their rooms to sleep in. We manage so they they have really good foods in you know, to to to bring lunches and stuff. Uh so and we also got it we also got it from here because we at the beginning when we came to San Diego like I told you it was it was another type of training, another type of lifestyle. And we saw that me and my coach Andreas Michael. So uh we just after doing this years and years and years uh we now managed to do it at home. And I just love it. You know, I've been I've been I've been traveling I've been traveling all my all my career to to to America to train and around the place.

28:58So I now established a good a good training system that works and we established it good and I feel great to be at home. Uh you know, when you're getting a family and stuff from 31 years old and it works, man. It works. I've never been in this that shape of my life than I've been like training at home and feeling good. That's fantastic where you don't have to drain yourself by flying over across the country and staying somewhere you don't know. Yeah. You were a real pioneer in terms of like European mixed martial arts. What is it like now seeing all this sort of explode around you? I mean it's become so popular all over the world now. I mean MMA from when you started 10 years ago to now it's barely recognizable. No, you were gangster back then. Or or you were a psychopath. Either either one or two of those when you're training like but nowadays it's amazing. You know you

29:52have a walk around in Stockholm and and and people are young kids you know they know even more than I know about about techniques about about the sport. We have all ladies and all gentlemen's coming in one one autograph or a picture. It's it's grown so much. It's it's like you say it's been exploded all over the world. Now what I was getting at was that when you first started out how much of a structure was in place like in terms of like how much strength and conditioning you should do how much sparring you should do how much drilling you should do. You know I just let Andreas Michael to handle that to me. He's he's he's he's a he's a mastermind of coaching. He He he puts me in situations I know I hate him. It's the worst ever. I'm telling you we've been in such a we've always been fighting sometimes you know being like but he has this old mentality of training

30:51he doesn't do we don't do too much of the scientific thing like with you know you watch your pulse you you you measure your thing. We just do the hardcore things and of course we do that too the scientific a little bit but not too much so we try to balance it out. But just we yeah he he plans everything out. He's a mastermind of coaching and he he knows me in and out and I know him. That's another very important part in the development of young fighters is having someone that they can entrust that has knowledge where it's an Eric Del Fierro or Andreas or you know Jackson Wink John like whoever it is like having someone who really understands the sport who can guide you. Yeah. And that's just such a giant resource for a guy. Yeah it is it is you know as the sport explodes and get bigger you have those fake ones coming in and think they know everything you know and and and they

31:40they wanted to be a they want to have a piece of the cake basically. But we have like these guys like Andreas Michael and they're they're they're masterminds man. They're legit. what is his background like what is his Boxing. He was a professional boxer. Ah. He had like he has like 19 or 20 and 0 in his boxing record. So and then he broke his arm and he had to finish by he had to finish career because of his his arm. But now he's he does his does his background and that's where I got my footwork from because you know that's where I got my my base foundation in fighting from. And then Then I also one thing about about a coach uh like for Andreas for example he or Eric Del Fierro they they don't they don't care about the glory they don't care about the attention. You know they they they don't care about they they're the head coaches but they they they take in if they they are honest to

32:35to to me and and to themselves they know that I don't know these things. I don't know the grab the grappling things. I don't know the wrestling things. They learn as they learn too as it as it grows and they learn with me. But they take in people that you know so they we cover the whole thing. We cover we cover the whole the whole the all the aspects of the game basically so. Yeah Eric is one of the most important but yet the most humble guys. Yeah he's super humble. in the background. There's a few guys like that that I really respect. John Crouch from the MMA Lab he's very similar to. They're not looking for attention just laying back and there's a lot of guys that get that aren't looking for attention they just get it cuz they're so good like Firas Zahabi and you can keep going on and on there's a lot of them. But those guys are so important. I mean it's so critical. Like

33:23finding a big camp with great fighters and a fantastic coaching staff is what the the difference between you realizing your full potential and not. That sometimes is the difference. Yeah that's that's just having the right coach is the key basically. That's the key. Coaches and training partners. Yeah 100% yeah. So so you you give him like full reign in terms of like everything you do. And we discuss it all the time. We argue sometimes we we hugging sometimes you know it's it's like a relationship man. It's my it's my it's my family too so so you know we that's all it is. I remember we we had a we had a really good we had we were in Vegas actually for a camp. I thought I was fighting Thiago Silva. And he was putting me in there in the cage with some big ass wrestlers. I wasn't and I was like I wasn't 240 235 back then. I was like 220 219 walking around with. These

34:19guys was heavy big American heavyweights good wrestling guys and they were just taking me down taking me down like submitting me and I was like I stand I stand up in the cage I throw all my things I'm like it's enough I can't take it anymore. Let me out let me out of the cage let me out. So I was hitting the door I wanted out of the cage and the gym was full of people now. So everybody just froze looking at me like and the cage was like on a pedestal so everybody could see me. I was crazy. So I was hitting the door and I see Andreas is outside the door he's like doing this. Nope. Nope. You're staying in there. One more round. I'm telling you I was so close to Meanwhile when you took Jon Jones down you had to be thinking god damn I'm glad he didn't open up that door. Exactly no I was surprised when I when I ended up in that position on top of him I'm like

35:08You shocked the out of me. Did this really happen? think you were going to go for it. So when you you went for it and then took him down WE WERE LIKE OH NO I WAS SHOCKED. I was I was laying on top of him I'm like wow I have I'm actually on top of I'm on top of this guy. I didn't even think that was possible but it wasn't that too hard to take to take down you know. you caught him by surprise. I did I did. it was pretty awesome. he was surprised too. Yeah yeah. Well it was pretty awesome. Now what is a typical day in your in your camp? Like do you do you break up conditioning days with skill work days? Do you do conditioning in the morning? Do you do it after you're done with your skill work? How do you work that? I do I do I do from 10 to 12 sessions a week when I'm when I'm in camp. I try to we have we have actually the the group we had the group workouts with

36:01the whole group the whole elite group in the mornings. And then we do everything from sparring to to good kickboxing drills to yeah whatever it's that's when the group is is training and that's that's it's all the time. It's the same group at the same time every morning. And then the night time is more like individual. Okay what I'm doing today yeah you maybe do five five rounds of pads and then you do the sprints or could be either one or strength or it could be either one so that's how we that's how we how we do it basically. So do you have a separate jiu-jitsu coach a separate Muay Thai coach? Like how do you how do you work all that stuff out? Yeah yeah the guy that was with me now Mhm. Joachim Carlson he's actually the the the national the national coach of Thai boxing. He's and he's coaching me in in my in my kicks and my knees and my in my in my kickboxing. And then Alan

36:54Nascimento it's it's a Brazilian Brazil he lives in I've been living in Sweden out many years he's a family and everything so he's having he has my jiu-jitsu and my grappling and he he's such a competitive guy. He still try he he still competes. He beats me up in he spars with me basically. That guy he spars with me and he just he makes me learn the hard way. So you've got just done an amazing staff over there. Amazing staff. It's amazing staff. That's fantastic. Yeah I love it. And so when you say you do these 10 to 12 sessions per week do you have like a board up on the wall where you outline the week ahead or do you do it day by day? How do you do that? get a text from Andreas. This is the this is the week. This is the I just I just waiting for that text man. I put the side on I put my phone like I don't want to see it man. But I have to man. So so so that's how

37:43it works. He give me a text. If if we do it could be on the board too we have a big white board on the on the on the on the wall it could be on the wall too. He puts down the session if it's something particular. We have maybe sparring coming in we have to adapt the the schedule a little bit. It difference it is difference on every week so. Yeah I can imagine. I can imagine it gets Are you still training? Yeah I still train. I've got some serious injuries that I'm trying to heal up right now though. What what's injuries? Two problems one big one is I got tendinitis in my elbow. I've never had tendinitis before. I don't know what that is though. It's strain in the tendon that just does if you tendons have low blood supply so the problem with tendinitis is it takes forever to heal and I didn't stretched the arm? It was from pulling from cleans and from chin-ups. Ah okay.

38:36This one on the inside this this muscle right here or this tendon right here. Man I it up. I just I kept training with it. I kept You got an inflammation in there? Yeah real bad to the point where it wasn't healing and I did stem cells and PRP. I finally got a hold of it but this thing right here I keep it with me all the time. This helped me more than anything. It's a thing called a TheraBand and what you do is you hold it cuz it's on this is the elbow that's injured. So I hold it out like this. I twist it and then I slowly untwist it with this side and that therapy just doing this I do this like five six times a day I'll do like 10 reps. That's been like the best thing. That's helped me more than anything. Will you be able to train now or you've been just now you haven't trained? Pretty soon. I think I'm good in about two weeks. I'm going to give myself two more weeks.

39:25some baddest kicks. Well thank you. That's what I heard. I haven't seen I'll show you. I can still kick. I have no problem with my kicks. Flexible? Yeah I'm very flexible. Ah cool. Cool. I did Taekwondo when I was a little kid. I started out with that and then you know got into Muay Thai later. But yeah. I'm not flexible at all. I'm telling you. No I have to I have to I have to stretch for an hour before the workouts. Really? Yeah, I think it's I don't know. I think it's from my genetics or something. I'm just a stiff Vikings. I'm telling you. Carrying swords, swinging swords all day. be happy if I kick over your knees. I can only move fast with my feet. That's all. Yeah, but I guarantee you you could improve that flexibility. Yeah, I know I'm working on it all the time. That's the thing I have to That's the thing I have in in you know the through my whole career. I'm just

40:07working on my my my flexibility and And when I'm when I'm when I'm stepping in that octagon, I'm I'm flexible as hell, but that's just two times a year though. So, I'm flexible as hell. you get to your flexible, yeah. Full peak in the full peak of camp, then you're flexible. soon as I leave the cage, it's it's gone. It's gone. I'm telling you. Are you doing a lot of weight lifting? Is that what it is? Are you doing a lot of squats or deadlifts or something like that? just it's it's in my genetics, I think. I just I'm a I'm super stiff. It depends I'm not stiff everywhere. It's just my hamstrings are stiff. When did you start martial arts? Uh For real, when I was starting MMA, 2000 end of 2006. Really? Okay, so it was fairly late in life. It was. I've been boxing and stuff, but that's just been an amateur level. I I don't even count that as a as a as a serious doing sport thing. It's It

40:55was just around. Yeah, just been playing around. So, you were basically like 18, 19 when you really got into it. Around there. Yeah. So, your body already matured. See, one of the things that you see about kicking in particular is when you get young fighters before their body is matured, then their flexibility usually stays. Yeah. You know, like if you start karate or something like that. at Phil Davis, for example. That guy is massive, but still he's flexible as He's great. He's like a cat. stud athlete, too. He looks like a superhero. I know. Like you look at his waist to shoulder ratio. I know. It's same with Jimi Manuwa. Jimi Manuwa, I don't put up my t-shirt when I'm training with him. I don't want to I just keep Just keep my hoodie on me. Just keep my hoodie on. Same with Phil. Yeah, those guys are jacked. Yeah. I know. Even if they're off season. That's

41:40the thing. I'm just getting like chubby or like big big as a farmer body like And these guys they're They like They look like athletes all year round. Uh yeah, is that frustrating? Sometimes. But is that just genetics? though when I'm winning the rounds sometimes. Right, you're winning the rounds as a fat guy. For fat guys all over the world. Yeah. Um so, do you do you like do you watch your diet at all outside of camp? I do. I do actually. I do. I I try to I try to stay away from sugar. Sugar I don't I don't It's like Uh when I do sugar if I do like sodas and stuff like that, I candy, whatever, I I gain a lot of weight, but as soon as I quit it, I just It's crazy, isn't it? Yeah, I drop in weight. Sugar's the devil. It is. I hate sugar. It's the worst. Yeah. It's the worst when you realize what it's actually doing to your body and then you realize it's

42:30everywhere and that most people that you run into are just eating sugar all day long. Yeah, and it actually doesn't taste that good if you don't do it. Right, that's the weird thing, right? Once your gut bacteria becomes acclimated to eating healthy food, you start craving salads and It's weird, right? So. Now, when you talk about flexibility, do you ever do yoga? I don't. You don't? No, I don't like that. No. Vikings and yoga don't mix. No, I I think it's just because I'm so bad at it. Um you know, you need patience You need a lot of patience doing it and I I wish I I wish I liked it. I wish I because I would probably I would probably need it more than ever. But it's the Don't get me wrong. Um you know, I I stretch. I do my flexible things in in in my training and all that, but you put a whole workout in just to just to stretch your body, I'm I don't know. I

43:22don't I don't have the patience for it. It's not just that though. That's what's interesting about it. It's a strengthening thing, too. It just strengthens your body in an unusual way. Um I've seen a lot more fighters getting involved in it and really seeing benefits. One of them was Nathan Corbett. You know Nathan Corbett, the Muay Thai champion? Yeah, heard about him. I was He's doing some interview recently talking about how much yoga he does and how much it's helped his power and helped his movement. No, I I believe it does. I believe it does. But you're still not interested? I probably have to think about it. Well, I was thinking a guy like you who's so driven Yeah. at trying to succeed, you know, at all costs. Like trying to figure out what's the best way to succeed, you might want to investigate that. I should. I should actually do it. I should do it. I think

44:06it will I think I will You know, like people telling me you know, they're telling me like my kicks I have to work on my kicks more. I have to use my kicks more in the fights and they're all right. I I need to start doing my kicks more and The thing I kick, but I kick with a certain maybe uh insecurity. I don't know. I I I I love I love I think it is from from back in the days when I was getting taken down all the time doing my kicks. But nowadays people taking me down, but I'm you know, they can't hold me down. Nobody If they take me down, nobody can hold me down. So, that's the something I need to like start doing even more. Not just kicking to the to the legs or you know, more powerful kicks to the body. My knees are good. I'm working on my knees all the time and and I'm I'm putting in more in my fights and I love my knees. I'm I'm I'm getting really high with my

44:54knees. What's one of the beautiful things about MMA and martial arts in general is that there's always room for improvement. There's always things to work on. No one is the best at everything. Even if you're 31 years old. Yeah. You're doing this for 10 years. You still have so much to learn. Yeah. So, that's the that's the good thing with the sport. No, it's a it's such a comprehensive sport. I mean, I really don't think people appreciate how much thought is involved in the preparation. Yeah. No, it's it's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. So. How long do you think you'll be doing it? You say 31 like you're old, but you're not. But it seems like you've been doing it a long time, right? Yeah. How many years do you think you have left? I I feel I feel really hungry and motivated. I don't think the age is going to be I I don't I don't think my age in terms of

45:47you know, have pain in your body or injuries or anything like that's going to stop me. It's more like as long as I'm having fun as long as I'm enjoying what I'm doing I'll do it. I'll do it. You have You have guys that are like doing it late in 40s. They have That's That's also a good thing with the sport. It's such a Guys, such an old age of of of peaking if you compare it to other sports. So, I have a I have a lot more to give. I can't give you a number, but I have a lot more to to give. I'm telling you. You've had moments in your career though that you were kind of down, right? Like moments in your career where you were thinking how much longer am I going to do this? Exactly. Now, after Anthony Anthony Johnson lost, that that was a tough one. Uh You know, uh but but I always told myself like, you know, either either either I just put my either I just get the out of there

46:41or I just learn from it and keep going doing it. And I just love my life as it is. You know, I have the I have my my my I'm so flexible in my schedule, my you know, in my time with with the family and I I gain everything from the sport. So, so I I have to do it more and I'm going to do it more. That's That's what I If If I probably going to like if if I would like for example say, you know, it. I don't After I lost against Anthony, for example. I would regret myself like a a lot in like in the late 40s maybe. I don't know. Right, so Well, because you you had your finest performance after that. Yeah. the Glover Teixeira fight. Yeah, and I just feel like that's the thing. You know, I just feel like I'm just keep going like this. Right, for every fight. Then I have I had a couple of setbacks, but I'm still seeing those marginals. I see the numbers going up. I see I see myself doing better.

47:34So, I I believe in myself 100% and I believe I have the what it takes to take that belt. I believe I have what it takes and I believe I can beat Jon Jones. I believe it 100%. I have what it takes to beat Jon Jones. And I have what it takes to beat DC. So, I'm just looking for that opportunity. I want I want to, you know, step in there. People say I'm not active enough. I don't say enough, but that's never been my thing. I've never been like a Conor McGregor. And if I should start doing what he's doing, people are going to tell me like, "Shut the up. You know, I see right through you. You're not that guy." You know, I was just like selling myself. So, So, I just, you know, doing what I do. I'm always going to do what I do and and I show what I have when I when I fight. And I've been a little bit inactive because of because of my injury now and because of all that, but you know,

48:23whatever people say, I'm I'm down and and I'm just waiting for the the next opportunity, basically. I can't wait. The Rumble Johnson fight was a tough one for you to swallow, too, because it was in Stockholm. It was this enormous event. Everybody was there to see you. And um in that fight, we didn't pick it up while the fight was going on, but you guys collided heads. Yeah. Yeah, it was a headbutt. Yeah. It was a I'm not I'm not taking anything away from Anthony Johnson. He That guy is a beast. And he hits hard. He's one of the hardest hitter in the in the No doubt. I mean, no one's taking anything away from him. He's truly exceptional. But the thing is I was throwing my my my my kick there and he just came in there and his forehead hit my my chin. Yeah. And from and I just I just blacked out. I I didn't I was went down. I went up again. I was in the I was in the match again. Mhm.

49:14But he he just, you know, when he gets a taste of blood, he just goes for it and and I should just keep my guard up. I'm I'm very like this. Right. You know, I'm very lengthy and he just caught me as I'm doing all that. But isn't that one of those situations where until you've been there and you you've been that hurt in a big fight like that, it's like the experience is it's it's an alien experience. It is. It is. It's It's you don't recognize any of it. It's like you you you can't Nothing controls. Your mind trying to control your legs, your arms, like this and that, but it was just I was just disoriented, man. It was 4:00 in the morning in a in in one of the big stadium in Sweden. 4:00 in the morning, we filled it up. We filled it up. And and It's huge place. It It was It was huge, man. And and and uh And like I said, 4:00 in the morning I They don't When the people told me like,

50:06"Oh, we're going to do this." I'm like, "No hell, it's not going to It's not going to happen." How should we manage to fill this place up? Right. But still people went there to see it and it was just amazing feeling stepping out there. Well, for people who don't understand why, they did it to coordinate it with American pay-per-view. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Uh So, yeah, that was it. That was it. Yeah, it was rough, man. It was a a rough loss. And now Rumble just decided he doesn't want to fight anymore, which is kind of crazy. Yeah. Every now and then he thinks about it. He says he wants to come back as a heavyweight. Yeah, yeah. I don't think he's even going to make it to light heavy anymore. No, he's got the spacious I've seen. It's so crazy to think that that guy fought at 170 at one point in his career. I can't even I can't even Yeah, I can't even see that now. Yeah, I

50:47don't understand how he even did it. I mean, it just never makes sense. guy. His His neck is like the size of his head. He has not a small head. He has like a this big round head. Yeah. And then the the neck is the size of his head. So, he's Now, he's a big guy. A really big guy. I ran into him once while he was fighting 170. Uh he was in the lobby of a hotel. I came downstairs and I go, "Anthony, how much do you weigh?" And he's just laughing. He's like, "230." I was like, "230? You weighed 230? You got to get down to 170." my weight cut easy, man. I'm telling you that might makes my weight cut my it makes my weight cut easy. No, his weight cut was horrific. He used to his whole his cheeks used to suck. He has prominent cheekbones, right? So, like when his weight cut was fully dehydrated, when his body was like really really thin, it was like horrible. It was like like a skeleton. Oh,

51:37It's like, man, that guy he and missed weight a bunch of times, too, you know. up to light heavy weight is probably the best thing he's ever done in his career. I agree. Yeah. Yeah, I was kind of stunned when he decided to retire, but what he said was interesting. He said, "Uh I'm not a fighter." He goes, "I'm an athlete." He goes, "I'm just really good at fighting." I don't know if that's how I like fighting. I don't know if that's correct, though. I would see him more like a like a like a fighter. You know, he's a great athlete, but but I see him more like a like a hooker fighter. I I don't you know, of course he's not all we all are athletes doing this, but but but he's more like the fighter. You know, Phil Davis is is an athlete. He's an athlete, but this guy he's just like he's a fighter, man. I'm telling you. You got to tell him, man. I mean, if you watch his fight with Glover

52:21Teixeira or you watch his fight with Lil Nog, you go, "Yeah, that motherfucker's a destroyer." He does. He's a destroyer. You don't want to You don't want to be in front of him. And that shows you how tough DC is. Yeah. DC beat that guy twice. I I threw everything I had at him. Everything I had. I I need him in the face. I kicked him in his body. Sometimes I hit him and I saw his eyes goes like this. And he just He just put He just kept going. DC's an animal. Yeah, a four-wheel drive just kept on on going. Yeah. man. Whatever I struck and he just same pace, same pace. Yeah, you know, if I fought him again, I would I would I would not stand in his pocket. I would not stand in front of him. So, you think that was the critical error? Like being in front of him? Especially when you have such a reach advantage. Yeah, I respect his wrestling too much. Uh So, yeah, like if I fought him again, I

53:11would do it a way different way. Yeah, I'm sure he'd do something different, too, though, right? He probably do. He probably do, but he's still doing one thing called like all all the time. He just keeps moving forward. That's what he does. What you got to do is you got to catch him when he's coming down for heavyweight. Yeah. When he Cuz he's You remember the towel where he's pushing down on the towel? I saw that. I saw that. I saw that. I I saw that. No, we I want him to come down. I hope he's coming down. Yeah. He He can't He can't just like you know, take that fight now. You know, even if he wins, he has to come come down and and and and defend defend and fight. Listen, if he beats Stipe, he might fight Francis again. Who knows? He might fight Volkov, who you know, he could who could fight No, he has to fight me. He doesn't want to fight me, but he has to fight me.

53:54He has to in your mind. He has to fight me. That's what you need. Yeah, that's what I need. Yeah. That's my It's him or Jon. So, if Jon's back first, you would like to be the first guy to fight Jon. I want him coming back right away. Yeah. I mean I'm I'm training I'm in camp and I'm not in camp, sorry. I'm training. Right. I'm feeling great. My shoulder is good. And I'm just waiting for an opportunity. The light heavyweight is pretty wide open right now, particularly with this decision for DC to fight against Stipe. So, we you have you know, it's interesting. Like you have um Oezdemir who just lost, right? You got your friend Jimi Manuwa. You have a a few guys who are at the the top of the heap. You know, uh but you're the standout right now with Jon being in limbo. Yeah, he's gone. No Nobody knows what's happening with him. Who else stands out to you in that division? Ilir.

54:48Yeah, yeah, Ilir. Yeah, you know, I wouldn't fight my teammates at all. I don't fight my teammates. Ilir, I've been training with him since I was I started my career. So, Ji- Jimmy Jimmy and and and Ilir is you know, we've been saying to each other that whatever happens, we're not fighting each other, you know. Um but uh Yeah, for for the the only the only the only fight that makes sense for me right now it's it's fighting if if fighting the top guys. And I'm ranked number one right now. So, I can't look back. I can't look down. I have to look up. What's What's the next up here? And uh we will take it from there. We will take it from there. And and like you said with Jon Jones is in limbo. I hope he comes back. If he doesn't come back, maybe I fight him in boxing. I'll fight him in boxing, too. Why does he want to box? He's been boxing on his Instagram. That's all he do is boxing

55:37right now. Really? Yeah. I haven't paid attention to his Instagram. No, he's boxing all the time. Yeah. Yeah. I don't see see him coming back as a boxer, though. Maybe he just sees that Conor McGregor money. We We could We We could Yeah, that's that's another thing, but we can take it like you know, maybe a side show here. We can box. Whatever, you know. So, you just want to get in there with him somehow or another. Somehow or another your competitive drive wants to get in there with him. That's my That's my Like I told you, it's it's it's bigger than winning the belt. That's your Mount Everest, Jon Jones. Jon's out there going, "Yeah." He knows that. He knows that. Here he is. Yeah. There he is. He's still got that Corvette. Yo, sell that thing, get a minivan. Drive slow. Looks good, man. Looks real good. Yeah, it do. It's got to be so frustrating for him to

56:24be in a situation that he's in, you know. Yeah, I can't even imagine. Yeah, I can't imagine, either. It's It's up. It's a crazy situation to be in. Yeah. You know. But did you see the article Colby Covington? No, what did he say? What did he say about Jon Jones? I don't even want to hear it. No, okay. We shouldn't even go there. you could bring it up if you want to, but Colby he was talking it it was it was a it was a like a a text like this. Just about Jon Jones. How piece of he is. Now, I was even surprised when I saw it myself. You know, I was like, is this right or wrong? I don't know. Jon Jones going to be in front of you one day. Got to be careful. Watch your words. Yeah. You're going to get slapped in the face Yeah. by a guy who can kill you with his hands. That's a that's a bad move. I I I get what Colby's doing. I mean, he's making a lot of noise and trying to do

57:12business, you know. And if you fight him, you're going to make a lot of money because a lot of people going to come to see him get his ass kicked. You know, you know, he's going to fight He's not probably on on the on the on the popularity list. He's probably on the I want to see I want to see him get knocked out list. He's in a dangerous situation right now. He's going to fight Dos Anjos. Yeah. Rafael Dos Anjos is Brazilian. He talked crazy about Brazil. They were going to fight in Brazil, but they moved the fight to Chicago. Which for Colby, thank the baby Jesus. Exactly. I would say the same thing. You don't want to be fighting Rafael Dos Anjos in Brazil. want to be close to Brazilian right now if you are Colby Covington. You don't only want to be close to him. would not go if I was him. He'd probably go anyway, man. He doesn't give a He'll go if the money's right. I'm sure he would.

57:57But Dos Anjos right now at welterweight, I think is a murderer. He's a killer at welterweight because for him that cut down to 55 was just too big. Too big. And you Yeah, he's a big guy. He's big. I mean, it's just too much of a cut too draining on his body. And then you see the way he beat Robbie Lawler in his last fight. You're like, "Holy shit." Goes through Neil Magny, Robbie Lawler, and you look at how good he looks at 170. You're like, "Holy shit." It's a good fight. It's a good fight. very good fight. Yeah. It's a really good fight. Particularly stand-up, he has a a big advantage, I think, over Colby. Yeah. Stand-up. What does he do, Colby? But is he a wrestler? He's a wrestler. He's a wrestler. Yeah, okay. Okay. His stand-up is good. I mean, he beat Demian Maia. He beat him up. But I feel like Maia is uh you know, I mean, Maia was coming off of

58:38that very very hard fight against Tyron Woodley. Five hard rounds, got beat up. And then he's going to go five I think he went three rounds with Colby. But I just don't think he's the same guy anymore. I think he's 41, I think Maia is 41. a very long time. He's been in the game for a very long time. Yeah, and I think those long hard five-round wars Yeah, it takes a toll on you. Yeah. Takes a toll on you. Not taking anything away from Colby, but I think also think Colby's style is probably tailor-made for a guy like Maia. Yeah. You know, wrestling, very strong. you usually see. Like wrestlers against Brazilian jiu-jitsu guys, you know. Yeah. Now, you're a decent guy. You don't get in any You're not involved in any brawls. You don't get involved in any stupidity. You're an excellent representative of a professional athlete. Thanks. What do you think about all this Conor

59:29McGregor Like you see someone throwing a dolly at a bus and shattering a window. No, no, I I don't even have words for it, man. I have no words for it. What did you think of when you heard the news? I I I heard the news when I landed. I was in the plane when it was all happening, flying to New York. And when I landed, my phone was like all these text messages coming in going, "What the is wrong with Conor? What the I'm like, "What happened?" You know, and then I checked the news and I was like, "Oh, Christ." And then I hear that two fights were pulled from the card, then three fights were pulled from the card. No, Conor McGregor, he he's just he's just losing it right now. I think he feels like he's he's lost it. I feel like Yeah. You know, I I I've never really been You know, I respect all these things he does. He's He He's He's a He's a great businessman. He do what it takes to make

60:23money. He knows what it takes to get money. And he does He does really good. He's He's a He's a master man when it comes to trash talking, man. He He He takes it to the next He takes it to another level, but like this thing he did now, it's just it's uh it's just crazy. You don't do that. You don't do that at all. I don't I don't know what it is. What What Why is he doing it? Yeah, I don't know either. Is he drunk as or is he Is he just uh Is he like that I wouldn't think that's a booze move. That seems more like a coke move. Yeah, could be. I don't know. Or it just could be part of his act. Yeah, but that's the thing. Like do you really take it that far? Do you really take it that far to to just make some noise? I don't know. Well, what if My thing is like what if that that dolly hit the car where Rose was sitting and cut Rose's face up? No, that would just be man. That would be crazy.

61:13Chiesa, I'm sad that he got cut, but Chiesa's a tough bastard. He'll be fine. He's probably pissed off and he's going to sue Conor and he'll probably make a shitload of money suing him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But what if it hit Rose? No, that would be bad. That would be really bad. I would feel terrible. The world would hate him. Oh, yeah. Rose was blinded in one eye because of that. That would be a nightmare. What the That would be a nightmare. Ray Borg got cuts in his eyes. Yeah. I mean, it's it's entirely possible glass glass cuts in his eye? Yeah, yeah. He got glass shards. He got a scratched cornea. Are they all suing Conor now or Yeah, they should be. I don't know. Find out how many lawsuits. I know Chiesa filed. Chiesa definitely filed a lawsuit or filed a complaint which will lead to a lawsuit, I I imagine. Look, I imagine if I was Conor, I would settle the

61:59every single thing outside of court because if he loses If he loses and he gets a felony, he's He probably won't even be able to come into the country. No, exactly. No. Here's my thing. Imagine switch it around. Imagine if Ray Borg threw that dolly at the bus and Conor was inside. Yeah, he would have smoked. He'd be gone. Yeah, he'd be gone. He He would be gone, for sure. That's one of the more up things about this. Yeah, yeah, he would be gone. He Yeah, of course. He Yeah, of course. Of course. That's not good for anybody. Yeah, of course. Of course. That's not good for anybody. No, it's not. It's not. And like I like I told you, he's just he's just losing his mind right now. It's You do it to a certain certain level and then you just like you just chill. You don't take it further than that than what it just did. So, I don't know I don't have any words for it, man. I just

62:47feel like it's terrible. It's terrible for for everybody in the sport, man. No, it's terrible. It's terrible for Conor even because you you don't want to be in a position like that. making money. I don't know what he make what he made for for that money with the fight, but I'm telling you, if he keep going what he's doing, that that that money is not going to be enough No. No. No, he'll burn right through that money. But he's probably burning through that money anyway. Every time you see him, he's got a new Bentley. And he probably lives in a mansion now. Oh, yeah, he does. 100%. He He has his private jet. I don't know how many bounces I don't know you have many uh what you call it bodyguards you have when he when when he when he hit that guy in in Ireland, the the the gangster guy he in Ireland. He had a bunch of like bodyguards I heard around him. But they cost every day.

63:32They're not cheap, though. Yeah, that that money piles up. Yeah. But when you're 29 years old like Conor, you don't even think about it. No, you don't. He's thinking about now, not the future. And he probably thinks he's going to make hundreds of millions the sad part of it, man. That's the sad because doing what he's doing whatever it is, a billion or whatever it is, it's not a lot of money, man. It's It's going to run through you. Well, there's that. But then there's the thing that really gets me is that what Conor is is an exceptional world championship fighter. I mean, that's what he really is. All this other stuff is the is going to get in the way of his legacy. I mean, he His legacy shouldn't be a boxing match where he was TKO'd by the greatest boxer ever. That's stupid. His legacy should be the next fight after Eddie Alvarez. what you mean, man. Eddie Alvarez was a

64:20That was a masterful performance. been smashing beasts. Yeah. He's been taking two belts. He's a He's a He's a He's a He's just a a regular guy from Ireland. He comes to the He comes to America and he just live lives the American dream. And he you know, he done things nobody's done before. So, you know, it's it's terrible to It's terrible to to see all this happen. Yeah, cuz I'm saying that all these things that are happening, it's bad for him. Yeah, of course. It's not just bad for the sport to let him get away with it. It's bad for him. With all this happening, you don't even like think of what he's been doing in octagon. Right, exactly. Exactly. I mean, just think about setting him up with Khabib, you know, having that fight. Like Jesus Christ, that would be a giant fight. That might be one of the biggest MMA fights ever to make. Him versus Khabib.

65:09Khabib is What's his record? 25 and 0? 26 and 0. 26 and 0. 26 and 0. And he's barely tested. Yeah. He barely gets tested. That's amazing. one little flaw in him, you get all excited cuz like, "Ooh, look, he's keeping his chin up." that fight? What's that? Who do you think win that fight? It's a good question. It's Well, the question is can Conor catch him? Can Conor catch him when he's coming in? And if Conor can catch him, look, Conor can knock anybody out. Yeah. I mean, you see what he what he did to Eddie Alvarez. You see what he did to Aldo. Nobody had ever done that to Aldo before. Those were all the the That's the best strikers in the in the division. Yeah. And what Conor has is incredible precision and the ability to He's He's He's so fast. So fast. His speed, his angles, he moves he moves create an angle and he just counter the out of the guys and yeah, that's

65:57that's all he needs. moves unusual. He moves almost like a karate guy. Yeah, he does. He does. wide stance, but then knocks you out like a like a real pro boxer. Like The only thing I'm doubting on it's on Conor. Yeah, you know, he he's he's he's the best striker and all of that, but does he have the conditioning for Khabib? That's a good question. Khabib, he just he just keeps going and he just He's a different animal. Yeah. And there's also the wrestling. Yeah. Like Khabib's wrestling is not just a level above everybody else, but multiple levels. Yeah. Like he's just I heard I heard I heard like heavy guys. I'm talking about heavyweights talking about Khabib's pressure on the ground being on the top. Yeah. Yeah, you know, taking that that side belt that seat belt around, taking his hands, moving that leg up, you know, just neutrals the guy totally. So,

66:41Luke Rockhold said he never loses a round in training. How he said? He said he doesn't lose a round. Yeah, Khabib. doesn't lose a round. He just smashes everybody. That's insane, man. Everybody who wrestles with him are like, "Fuck, here we go. Time to go through the grinder." It's like those guys in Dagestan, man. New York Times had an article about Dagestan wrestling and about how these guys they they have very few options. And so, a lot of them, you know, they go towards the dark side and get involved in terrorism all these other things. And this is the way to go towards the light side. Yeah, the sports. Yeah. And they have a different mindset there, too. If you're doing good, if you're if you are a like if if you win the world games or whatever, they take care of you. They really support you. The whole government, the whole country is carrying you out from the mat. They

67:23carry you into the You're a king there. Yeah. Just that is It's It's a great motivation, man. That's They're They're just Yeah, they're animals, man. They're animals. Did you see Zabit fight? Who? Zabit Magomedsharipov. He fought uh on the undercard of uh No, I don't think so. Holy he's another one from Dagestan. Another one of those. Another one, but he's totally different. He's like 6'1", fights at 145. Yeah, that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that guy. Yeah. I think his background is actually like I'm going to say it's wushu or something like that. I think he started off as a kung fu guy. But who Who did he fight? He won that fight. Great fight. Crazy three-round fight. Bochniak just kept coming at him, kept coming at him. And then at the end of the third round, Bochniak finally has him cornered up against the cage and he's teeing off on him. Phenomenal

68:15fight. I mean, phenomenal fight for the toughness of Bochniak and the skill of Zabit. I mean, phenomenal. Just this ridiculous technique. guy is not even a wrestler. He's a He's a striker. He's a striker, but he's got wrestling, too. I mean, his wrestling's good, too. And his his takedown defense is very good. His And his jiu-jitsu is very good, too. But Wow. his striking, crazy Wheel kicks, front leg roundhouse kicks to the face, switch kicks, just everything man. everything lightning fast, perfect technique. And here's a big thing, too, is his footwork. When he lands, he's always in perfect position. Everything he does when he comes down, he's never awkward. He's never like his legs are never crossed up. Nothing. But phenomenal technique. That's impressive to see. It's impressive to see what when when when when when guys are like good strikers guys with good kicks, for example, Jon

69:04Jones, for example, they they kick high, they kick from different angles, they kick and they just land like they haven't kicked. Yeah. They land like really good good base. They're ready for another ready for a counter, they're ready for this. It's impressive to see. So, for you as a guy who if you had to say you have a one area in your game that needs the most work, you'd say that's your kicking? Well, I think I you know I don't know. Yeah. Of course, kicking is one of the one of the the things I think I have to work on a lot, man. That's I'm I'm I'm far from I will probably never be a complete fighter. I have to work on everything, you know. I need to keep my keep working on my boxing. I have to keep working on my footwork. I have to keep working on my kicks, my knees, my elbows, my grappling, my my wrestling, keep my chin down, guard up, all that It never ends. It never

70:00ends. It just keeps going. Just keeps going. Who do you like to watch fight? I like to watch my teammates fight. I like I like I like seeing guys in in my division. I should be honest to you. I'm I'm not I'm not really I'm not I'm not I'm not a guy that really watch fights. I don't watch all the fights. I don't I don't barely watch any fights. I just fight if I know either my teammate my teammates or competition fights my competition is fighting I fight I look at fights, but oh, good good title defenses and stuff like that, but I don't I don't I don't barely watch fights. Do you think it's because it's just too much a part of your life? It's just I think it's important that you you have some distance to you have some distance to to your work. It is a work. Even if it's your hobby and your lifestyle and and your passion is it's a it's a work and and you need some distance. And my

70:56distance like I told you it's been out there my distance is you know, being outdoors, hunting uh family and friends No, I so it's doesn't interest me to watch the fights. It's getting too much of it. Particularly when I'm in camp, I'm I don't watch fights at all. I get it gets too much. I would imagine. I mean, you're probably spending 5 hours a day just training, right? Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it gets too much, man. But like I told you if if if I know Jon Jones is fighting, DC is fighting Right. Right. Volkan is fighting, I watch him those fights. Right. Do you do you have a guy that's like your favorite guy to watch? Like a Mighty Mouse or someone or Anderson Silva or someone? Yeah, those guys. I watch those guys. Yeah, I watch I watch Mighty Mouse. That guy is incredible. Yeah. He he's he's hands down he's the best guy out there right now competing.

71:46Wonder what it would be like if you were that light? Wonder what it would be like if you only weighed 125 lbs? so fast. I'm faster than I'm heavier, I would be. Do you see my shadow in there? Running around like this. I know, it would be crazy, right? I mean, Mighty Mouse is so fast. One time I've told the story before, but one time I I grabbed him just playing around from behind. I'm like, "What's up?" I grabbed him. He turned and kneed me in the body two times before I even knew he did anything, man. He went and I went, "Ow, dude. That was ridiculous. Like, how the did you move that quick?" No, you you know, he he's fights it's amazing to see and the way he he he finish his fights the one he he he he's he's like throwing the guy, taking that armbar in the air. It's yeah. Yeah, it was No, it was just amazing to see. suplexed him and took the armbar in the

72:36air on the way down. I mean, that is video game It is. It is. He said he drills that. Yeah, no, it's insane. that's something he drills all the time. Like that is No, he plays video games a lot, so he probably gets it from the video. I have to try this. He do something in the video, I have to try this and then he goes and do it. Yeah, that's crazy. Now, do you do you watch a lot of boxing? Well, yeah, I watch the big fights. I watch the big fights. I do. But I'm not I'm not really a guy that watch a lot of fights overall. Is she is it just because like you said you need distance? Distance. It's not in my interest. You know, I'm not You know, I I got guys in my team. They're like such a nerds. They they on the they on the they know everything about everyone. Mhm. They don't even train themselves. They just knows everything about everyone and that's enough for me. They just tell me,

73:26"Who's this?" I ask them. They're like, "Oh, don't you know him?" No, who's this? "Oh, this is this. Yes, this skills, this I'm like, "Okay, good." So, yeah. So, like when you're in camp, do you what do you do to try to relax and like for downtime? Do you try to read books? Do you watch TV? Do you play video games? Like what do you do? I'm I'm actually I'm actually spending time outdoors. During camp? During camp. That's what I do. That's my way to to get away from everything. You know, watch watch a series, hanging out with with my family and stuff, but but for me the real distance I get when I'm when I'm outdoors, hunting or I'm out out with the dogs or you know I usually I don't even have to hunt. I I just go out there hike. Yeah, hike. I got some lands not far from Stockholm. I go out there and just hanging out. You know, I sometimes I'm just tracking. Oh,

74:23what's this? Oh, that's a wild You know, and I just follow it where where it goes or could be could be could be anything. Just out I like to be outdoors. Even if it's like 10 minus degrees or if it's summertime I'm out I'm out all the time. That's awesome. That's a a great way to put things in perspective, too, right? Yeah. And the guys they telling me they're like, "If you put that much time being like you doing in hunting, you did that in training or be not time, but just having that interest." Yeah. You know, they they they all the time telling me that. So so you think that those interests, things like hunting, are a relief for your mind? But it is. It is. I wish I wish everybody could see that. It's a healthy way of living, I think. Yeah, I think I think especially to a guy who has such an intense pursuit, it's probably good to have another thing

75:17that you're interested in so that it it gives you like a relief from not always thinking about fighting all the time. There's a break. You have a cuz it's obviously hunting's not competitive. So, what you're doing when you're hunting is is more primal and natural, but also very difficult and time-consuming. Yeah. Because it's like you you you you train you you you compete at the gym. You compete in the in the octagon. You're you're competing in business. You're competing in everything. It's just a competitive way of That's you live a competitive way of way it's a competitive way of living, basically. And and uh it it gets a toll on you after a while. And and and when I was when I was young, when I started this sport, I was just I was you know, I was just like I wanted to smash everybody the gym. All bomb you know, in all but now you know, nowadays I'm like

76:09I know my my body better. I know what my body needs. I I know, okay, this is I found a way where I even if even if I was doing what I was doing 6, 7 years ago I I wouldn't I wouldn't even if I even I do it in training wise being such a nerd in training and and just training training 7 days a week, 24 hours a day I wouldn't be a better competitor. I wouldn't do better in fights. Now I found a way of I basically found a way of okay, this is what I need to to make my life better and and and make my competition better. I perform much better doing this. I perform I perform much better having that distance from from from all that competitive things and and uh So, yeah, I need it, man. I need it. So, where are you sitting right now? You're healed up, you're ready to go. Do you just sit and wait for a call? Your manager informs the UFC that you're ready to go into camp?

77:15I'm I'm ready. I'm ready to I'm ready to I'm ready to go in camp. I'm I'm training right now. I'm healed up. I'm 100%. So, but how does that work? Do you do you contact the UFC and and try to negotiate something to try to get something going? Do you wait for them to contact you? Or do you wait for this Stipe Miocic DC fight? Basically, I'm just waiting for them to to come with something that makes sense for for me. And so, there's been no discussion so far? Not not not really. Not really. No. That's got to be kind of frustrating. Yeah, you know, it's been some discussions, but but nothing that really nothing that really nothing that really I I count on or anything like that. It's just been just been up in the air and I'm just waiting for something on the table that makes sense. I'm ready to go, man. So, what would make sense? Other than Jon Jones, other

78:11than DC, what would make sense? You as the number one contender right now. Jon's unranked because right now he's currently suspended, but as soon as they put him back in he's likely to be right up there with you. And then you have DC. I mean, who else in your division makes any sense now? They were to offer you a fight now. Jon Jones is going to be suspended still for another 6 months or whatever it's going to be. Who makes sense in your division for you other than DC? Well, I I wish I had an answer to that right now, but I I really don't. I just you know, I just feel like it has to be it has to be a a meaningful offer. It has to be something that I feel this is right. This is this is what I what I want. I feel like man, in in in my position in my career right now, every fight every fight has to mean something. Yeah, that's what I'm getting at is that

78:57there's with you at the top, really the fight to make is one of two, DC or Jon. Those those are the two fights. Yeah, or or it could be something else, too, Joe, but it has to be it has to be it has to feel right, though. It has to feel right and and it has to be it has to be something meaningful. Like a big main event on Fox or something like that. Yeah, something where it's a big fight to showcase. man. Something good. And you know, everybody knows that when I'm stepping up in that octagon, I'm going to perform and I'm going to make a show. And and I'm looking for that gold. That's all I'm saying. Well, listen, man. Uh I'm a fan. It's been a pleasure to be able to commentate your fights. I really enjoy watching fight. I really enjoy watching you develop the whole process. And uh I really appreciate you coming on here, man. Appreciate it, Joe. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thanks for

79:43having me, man. luck to you. Appreciate that. The Mauler, ladies and gentlemen. That was great. That was