Shirley Manson

00:00we it yeah art 5 4 3 2 capow and we're live Shirley how are you I'm feeling alive you look alive thanks so do you does anybody ever ask you are you really only happy when it rains all the time is that annoying yeah I would imagine so I shouldn't have done it I couldn't helped myself it was a little beneath you do but that's okay I'll forgive it was a little was I panicked I didn't know how to start I never do well at least you didn't ask me are you really related are you really you know the sister of Marilyn Manson is another one too oh is that one that comes up that comes up a lot yeah that guy's a freak have you ever met him I love him he's an odd dude he's you think oh I was kind of shocked by how normal he is smart very nice really smart and really I thought really forthright and I appreciated him I loved him actually I I was I was crazy about him well doesn't

00:56that in of itself make him a freak yeah I guess so in this world I guess so we were just talking out there about how many people are pilled up and that this world well we were also talking about people who can't tell the truth that's maybe even more weird yeah we were talking about transracial people you know the one folks we don't have to say her name you know that chick P lady the one who thinks she's and then then that dude who also did it there's a lot of weird people out there but uh also Jamie Jamie lies about being an Indian apparently not a lie it's not a lie a Native American right joke yeah that's that funny thing you can't Indian is actually kind of offensive to some people now where it was like standard for a long time well I'm ashamed to say when I first came to America 20 years ago I always because it was the way we were brought up to we refer to Native

01:46Americans as red Indians and every time I would say red Indian everybody in me my band would be going you can't say that you've got to stop that and I'm like oh God I'm so sorry but you know I was 30 years in or whatever I was so used to saying it oh is that a Scotland thing you say Scottish thing you say red Indian we used to say red Indian that has now been completely changed but back then 20 odd years ago yeah we we always refer to Native Americans as red Indians yeah there I mean you can't say red people but you can say white people you can definitely say black people but you can't say yellow people yeah it's complicated rules are complicated I get it it's you know if you didn't know it would be super like if you were just learning this language like if you came from China or something very confused you'd be baffled yes I I spend my life baffled though that's okay I've just

02:35gone I just go with it now it's okay to be baffled good for you that is a good way to approach it me it's made me happier I'll tell you that it's definitely happier than trying to control everything I a lot of people that go down that rabbit hole that's not a good rabbit hole to go down no but I think controlling things are it's fear driven right sure yeah yeah yeah definitely a lot of it I think I'm too old to be fearful I think really a wee bit Yeah Yeah but you're like a see there's a certain thing that happens to people in Show Business when they get to a certain age either they uh feel like uh it's slipping away or they feel comfortable you seem like a comfortable person yeah I'm a comfortable person well kind of kind of yeah what's uncomfortable I'm uncomfortable about a lot of things let's get into it you got there already Jo that's impressive

03:25you're fast I lower your guard by giving you something really beneath me first I see and then you come in like and just you don't even know blow to the left side head um no I'm uncomfortable about a lot of things but I hear what you're saying and yeah I feel like maybe if you feel like you've failed and then you've stepped back up then you've start you you're you either crumble and you can't build your life back up or you you find a a place to stand and you build your career again on your own terms and then it is comfortable is that what you're saying like that's how you where you're at that's why I'm saying but you never failed I felt I did you know really how yeah well you know we have we in the '90s were so much a sort of pop cultural zist I guess you know and that can't last forever but when it stops I I should speak for myself when it stopped I was it was dizzying for me

04:20I didn't really know what to do with myself I didn't really understand my identity you know what I mean I didn't know who I was it was such a ride cuz it was such a crazy ride and I had I identified with myself as a successful person and my idea of success was really warped you know oh so your idea of success was Commercial Success correct M yeah did you take any comfort in the artistic success I did eventually but at the time I felt like we were being creatively adventurous and we were getting punished for it and it made me really angry oh so you feel like were you getting published I mean was it the Publishers the music Publishers that were punishing you like what was no it wasn't even that personal although I took it personally it was really much more a cultural shift you know right so it just it wasn't received as well correct you are correct sir yeah and so

05:13we've been used to being on top of the charts you know and then when that stops all of a sudden you're like well is everything we're doing all our ideas rubbish and but deep down you know they're not but you're being rejected anyway and so you have to find a way through that and that's complicated I think or it was complicated hated for a simple girl like me well I would imagine anytime you were as big as garbage was in the '90s I mean you guys were gigantic I mean it was hard to go into a clothing store without hearing your music blaring yeah you know it smart itra smart yeah I'm a huge fan I love you guys oh thank you so it's kind of weird sitting across from you but we it is it is nice I'm enjoying myself you seem to be yeah but like I would imagine that like as big as you guys were you either stay that big and then you become a crazy person you probably better off like

06:08doing what you've did like like taking our artistic chances settling in and then doing what you're doing now being more comfortable yeah I guess so I mean we were lucky we had a manager A very wise manager at Q Prime management at the time who said what do you want do you want a long career at a lower level or do you want a short career at a ridiculously high level and we were like we want the long career and you know that's exactly what we got in the end but um there was this mad blip that happened for alternative music which had had never gotten really that much pop cultural success I guess we were like we enjoyed this weird Rush of alternative music that for for a blip ruled the charts if you weren't an ALT band you were a nothing band yeah you guys caught that wave that post no Nirvana wave that's really what it was right yeah yeah I would love to talk to Chris

07:05Cornell like remember when Chris Cornell did those pop music songs like he went from sound garden this like deep crazy dark band to yeah that's true like weird poppy music yeah sort of softer and I'm sure he was just trying to figure out a way to survive like we all do you know and it's complicated for anybody with a career yourself included you know you have to like adapt and figure out well okay where did I step to now yeah it's weird well I think ultimately what you got to figure out is what do you like yeah and it's hard to know what you like sometimes no sure because if you don't like something but it's super successful for you then you might keep doing thatly that's very confusing yes shirely my goodness we're getting deep here we're going deep maybe you're my future husband no I'm married my wife's coming over there soon too keep that on the DL

07:56I'm sure my husband will be listening and laughing his assle yeah your hband is named Billy Bush he is it's a different Billy Bush not the grab the Billy Bush correct but he he really suffered during that time he got like an a hilstrom of abuse via Twitter I mean we found it funny but it was also quite alarming because we were like oh my God I hope somebody isn't come and punish you well what's crazy is that guy the re the real grab the Billy Bush didn't really do anything he was yeah he he kind of was a scapegoat in the end God bless him I mean I think he was just trying to be consiliary as as a TV host you know and he got yeah he got he lost his job no yes yeah and he was sitting next to you know this gigantic Tycoon billionaire character this flamboyant boisterous sort of a guy who was going on his usual flamboyant boisterous TI rates he probably felt

08:48like it was funny you know listen to this guy he did to be fair but yeah boy did he have to pay the price and and my husband too by default but it's funny that you know your husband would get hate from it or that that guy would get hate from it people seem to be like looking for people to get mad at well I think we're all mad right that the the world is currently angry and we don't really know why but we get fed a lot of negative information and I don't know if the human brain knows how to cope with it so it's very early on in this sort of technological Revolution so to speak and I don't think our brains have quite caught up with how much bad news we're absorbing on a daily basis and so I think yeah I think people are angry and up set and they don't know what to do with it and and there's certain figures that attract that you know that kind of Rage or wrath

09:37and they people use these people as hot rods for their own I don't know chaos in their brains yeah no I think you just nailed it I think that's absolutely it we've been talking about it a bunch lately that there's just too many people there's seven billion people and to get all the information especially the bad information from 7 billion people it's unmanageable it's intense yeah I mean yeah well said it's just crazy you flick through Twitter you flick through Instagram or look on Facebook every single thing from every corner of the globe is you're hearing bad news you know that's all you want to hear because like if you well the good news is not news no you know it's like everybody got it on great today yeah that's not a story you can't sell that yeah I it's going to be really curious as to see where the human race goes and how we do manage with all this information because

10:27even if you stand up for a cause like you know like today I was I I did a post about um for Amnesty International who's standing up for the Turkish journalists you know who are who are all imprisoned for just doing their jobs and so you stand up for that cause because I feel very strongly in a free press and you you just become inundated with people saying well what about Venezuela and they have the legitimate concerns about what's going on in their country what about the women in Argentina you know and so on so forth in Brazil and Mexico and it's just I just don't even know what to do with all the information anymore yeah that is a part of the problem too is that people expect you to comment on every single thing and if you comment on one thing especially if you comment on one funny silly thing they'll say well what about this how come we not talk about this terrible

11:13thing that's happening I know it's almost like you you have a responsibility to alert people of your State of Consciousness at every step of the day every second of the day I could I could definitely do that could you no not even I could do that just with Emojis yeah just with Emojis I like emojis of the future I've been thinking a lot about this I think emojis I mean who it this I think was it Eddie Bravo that compared him to hieroglyphs you it was Jamie it was Jamie Jamie Jamie Jamie was saying we were talking about it that like they are a lot like hieroglyphs like if if you send someone like I one of the reason why I thought it was Eddie is because Eddie always sends me like a series of emojis like in a row you know it's F he's being funny like he'll send me a clown and a thumbs up and a Black Fist the clown and the Ober Jean are my two favorites the Ober jeene the Ober jeene an jeene

12:02an eggplant I I call it an OB jeene did you know what it is no I I know what you mean now but uh an eggplant why is an eggplant the favorite one I just like it it looks rude and funny see I'm I'm Italian so I feel like it's racist I see eggplants of course I feel like it's a direct your wrath on me I'm so sorry but uh I feel like uh there's it's like a a racist term for black people okay now you're just being ridiculous no no it is amongst amongst Italian it really is what is yeah an eggplants yeah why what is the word what's that word that Italian word that they use there's a see if you can Google it RAC Italian word for eggplant used it's like it's a common thing on like the East Coast what is I don't get the race thing I swear to God it's mystifying there's a couple choices I guess yeah there's a word that they would always use Mulan yeah Mulan is an Italian derogatory

12:59slang term for a black person and it's derived from the word eggplant the word uh melan which is a a ter which is a term for eggplant well you've crushed my spirits right there I'm so sorry I I made it impossible for you to use eggplant now I'm going to have to go back to the lipstick Emoji just that'll do so we've killed red Indian and we've killed eggplant on one podcast good yeah Indian was a thing that like you could say all the time when I was a kid but now if even accident L like slips out of my mouth like you don't say cowboys and Indians anymore you're supposed to say like cowboys and Native Americans but it doesn't roll off the tongue as quickly but we can break our habits can't we we can surely because we're evolved we are we're trying and we're disciplined I know you're disciplined I'm trying disciplined how do you know cuz I've read some stories about how you pulled

13:50yourself together over time and that's that takes that takes discipline and I don't know I think it takes a lot of balls actually hm that's a compliment you can say thank you Manson you guys say bollocks though don't you did you just say it in a positive way that it takes a lot of bollocks takes a lot of bollocks yeah do you say that would you say it that way no I say balls cuz I balls is I don't know I like the word balls yeah something to do with my accent bollock is too hard for me to say but bollock is like too right oh well yeah that I would use that's bollocks I would definitely say that but that's also balls right correct but it's used in a compl different how could balls be I'm so confused I'm confused too but like I said just go with the confusion it's okay I'm going going to be I'm totally going with it I'm I'm flexible I try to be more flexible as I

14:40get older I work on that I it's hard to remain flexible is really a challenge and I think that's what differentiates the sheep from the goats M what's better sheep or a goat fible the goats the greatest of all time I love the goat but then I'm partial to a sheep I was reading this article uh yesterday about music and they were talking about how people get very rigid in their musical tastes like what they liked when they were younger they get to a certain stage in their life and then they just lock on and any new music they just sort of there's neological reason for that right yeah yeah what is it do you know it's something to do with the the Pathways in your brain I don't know that the first when you first make these insane connections and it's usually during adolesence apparently yeah where you make these connections with I suppose adventure and you know

15:28Independence I don't know I don't know enough about it but they have done all these studies during studies on the brain on dementia they've discovered all these incredible neurological Pathways that are formed by music and how yeah somebody can't even remember how to you know button their shirt but they can sing every single word and every note perfectly to some Opera that they they performed when they were young I mean I don't know it's crazy yeah it is crazy there's there's definitely weird Pathways that get established in the brain and they say that like there's something about music and especially like musical Pathways that literally invoke these physiological changes in a person that are unlike anything else like it like when I was a kid that Rocky Eye of the Tiger song would come on and he would just want to start he would just want to start running he

16:18would just want to lift weights or just run up a hill or something like that I mean it would make your body change it was like if that was a drug if you could take that drug if you could sniff it like and like feel how you felt when that song came on be like yeah right I mean what else does that there's nothing else that does that no that's true there is nothing that else that does that I'm currently on this mad obsession with Oliver Sachs oh and uh I was I'm I'm reading his biography right now or autobiography should I say and he's talking about some of his like really sick patients who have Dementia or there's some other form weird virus that shuts them down completely and they can't even stand really and then if they play a certain piece of music someone who is essentially an unconscious being snaps to stands up and can dance and like recite words even though they've

17:09been mute for years I mean really crazy crazy stuff yeah there's something about that art form about your art form music can heal you Joe pet get mine feel it I felt it I felt it charged my whole body my hair stood up on end what hair I have left yeah there's something to it there's there's something to that's like I mean and it's also very bizarre because it's something that people have created right it's not something that exists in nature there beautiful sounds in nature like birds chirping and certain animal noises and things that are beautiful but music is in like the the the ability to control notes right the ability to create a symphony the ability to structure a song and put it together with a beautiful voice like yours like that is something that's entirely created by a human being like that didn't exist before human beings existed and it works only on us you ever

18:03play music for a dog they just stare at you don't give a music taste my dog my dog responds to music well maybe your dog does makes sense yeah I suppose she's trained that way I guess yeah well she probably maybe feels like it's important to you too yeah no you're probably right like if you meet like a shitty person you know usually they have a shitty dog cuz that dog's getting such thing as a shitty dog really only a shitty owner who's taught them shitty manners M but then the dog become shitty like if a dog bites your face off that's a chitty dog okay fair enough that's fair d That's a although I would argue it's a scared dog but I'll give you that I agree I or a terribly trained dog yeah yeah it's a owner it's the owner's fault I agree I agree um but there there's there something that we've done with this that I think is really um I think it Taps into the human reward system in a way

18:52that what's the human reward system like when people enjoy being around certain people there's there's like rewards there's like social rewards you get from it like say if you have a leader yeah yeah we're having a fun time having a fun conversation and laugh but like say if like you were in a tribe of people and there was this one leader or this one you know Warrior that saved you from the jaguar and you would look up to that person like that that's like a hero in a movie right yeah like the now when we tap into these ancient reward systems I think there were ways that human beings could learn and ways that we could share energy with each other that existed before media before music before movies and books and I think what we've done with media music and books and and movies especially is tap into those human reward systems teaching me something right now that I'm really into

19:44h no seriously I I love this idea there is hope for the human race after all oh there's definitely hope we're awesome people yeah we suck sometimes yeah some there's a few who suck but it's not even 1% is that true yeah I think that's maybe 1% I think that if you get 300 million people like we have in America you get about 3 million douchebags that's I that's fair and then you have also people that are the same victims as your dog that's a bad dog yeah like you have people that are born and raised horrible environments and abused when they're young and I think that's a giant part of the problem a giant part of what we are and if we we just address that it's one of one of the main problems that I have with our culture is that we don't address really at all the raising of children and the doing it from the beginning as a culture but we don't address very much that's painful or or

20:40dark or complicated do we not really we don't talk about death which I think is a big mistake cuz then you rear people to not live their lives fully because they're so scared of dying they spend their whole lives worrying about getting sick yeah they like to talk about it yeah my parents my parents don't like to talk about it just crazy as as though if you don't talk about it's going to go away somehow like I don't want to deal with it no no let's not let's talk about something else let's go get dessert yeah it's weird people just shut off if you mention anything difficult it just shuts down a conversation well that was one of the main problems that a lot of psychologist had with hiding um caskets like when they were bringing people back from the war that they were taking these photographs of the caskets and they wouldn't let them be released like it was a big thing during the Bush

21:27Administration in America and um psychologists were saying do you understand like this is you you are programming people to have a very specific notion of War then because you're not showing them the actual consequences I mean in a casket is almost a symbolic consequence because you're only seeing a box and you know that a person a child's you know some parents child is in that box you're not you're not even seeing the body like you're not even saying we should see the body so people can understand what a what a missile does to a person you're saying like the boxes themselves are forbidden to be and that's crazy yeah well it's just it's weird it's psychological warfare in a lot of ways on the people because it allows people to accept the consequences in some sort of a weird almost abstract way they're not they're not seeing the consequences so well so sanitizing everything and not

22:14allowing people to grow and and expand I guess it shr it shrinks our minds in a way the less we see the less we can think about the less we're capable of thinking about in a way it's really weird but it goes back to like the idea of of rearing children and that goes back to education as well and that we seem to have fallen by the wayside there too well I think we have but my feeling the human reward system was much more uplifting well I think it's all connected because I think that what we're doing with technology in the form of music and movies and media and all that thing is just one step in this multifaceted experience that we have of integrating technology and and the more the more sophisticated this technology gets it seems like the closer it brings people and ideas and I think that that's I I honestly I mean people think that it's I'm have too much of a utopian view

23:04of it but I really feel like the technology is essentially going to balance it all out I feel like feel like as much as we want to try to hold back information and we try to hold back education or try to program people I feel like technology is ultimately going to connect people instantaneously with ideas and that you're not going to do that already really sort of but you can you could push it aside you could shut it off you could walk away if you have discipline you could leave your phone at home and go for a walk in the woods but I feel like we are just one or two generations away from being a completely different thing than we are now that's the thing that bums me out about dying that's the really pretty much the only thing is how much we are going to miss of all the great technological advances like how crazy is it going to get it's going to get crazy I know and I'm so sad

23:52I'm going to miss so much it you might not you might not miss it because you're on the tip right now of the scientific and medical advancements that are going to allow people to live to be 300 400 years oh God I hope not it's very possible I really really really hope that's the case cuz you worry about overpopulation yeah and and yes and the calssification of the human mind I worry that Donald Trump's going to live to be a thousand oh God we all wor a we he's got a lot of money yeah he sure does it's pretty healthy for a fat guy too I was thinking that the other day guys out there active why is this why is he so preoccupied with fast food it's really peculiar when you've got money and you're stuffing your face full of the cheapest food you can find does he apparently he's got a huge fast food preoccupation maybe it's a president thing cuz Bill Clinton did too

24:39that was a huge issue with Clinton why he was at fast food as he had heart problem though yeah yeah all cut up with poor Bill so watch out press yeah you can't eat fatty foods all the time or sloppy well it's real sugary and cheap crap just non nutritious it is right every now and again it's every now and again get one of those Wendy's double doubles what are those things those double cheeseburgers they I've never had a double cheeseburger in my life ever ever why I couldn't get my even I couldn't get my jaws running back you really never had a double cheeseburger I've never had a double cheeseburger how long have you been in America ooh 11 years and no nonsense no one's to in years yes of course I go to in night so you get a single cheeseburger to In and Out is that a double maybe I have had a double so I you had a double double my J right that no I've never had a double double so

25:27what do you get I don't know what I get I've never ordered it my husband's always the one that's sort of wow your husband's like your assistant like get me what I want I wish he was maybe he was for like the first you know couple of weeks that we were together oh yeah when he's trying to when he's really trying hard to work it and that has long been left in the dust I can assure you like literally now I'm like I have to beg I had a friend of mine before he he's married now but before he's married uh he had gone through a series of like really horrendous relationships and we were sitting around talking Once We Were super high and he goes uh I think what I'm going to do is just have two week relationships he goes because two weeks is like the perfect amount of time you're in love Yeah it's you're in love you want to spend all the time together it's great and he goes and then

26:12somewhere around then they just start expecting things from you and then they get mad at you in two weeks he's just picking the wrong Partners clearly clearly cuz he's married now he's happy two years I think is like a good honeymoon period two years really oh things can go ugly in two years especially dating an actor o I've never dated an actor in my life good for you congratulations yeah yeah yeah no I couldn't deal with that did you yeah actresses yeah not no dudes but uh act girl you say actor like girls want to be called actors now like it's non-gender specific these days fair enough yeah I get that yeah it makes sense I totally get that I guess yeah because actress or comedian that was a big one like female Comics do not like that don't like being called comedians no it makes you seem like a cheapen down comic like my funny comedian friends that happen to have

27:05vaginas all comedians yeah see that I get that I really do get that and and and I respect that the only thing is I love the word actress actress is a pretty word it's a lovely word comedian sounds like a light version of comedian yeah it comedian doesn't have the same kind of Gravitas right low fat yogurt or something you know yeah I guess so I never thought about it that way but yeah I think the more we get rid of gender actually the better you think so but isn't it fun to be a girl it is fun to be a girl of course and I think it's fun to be all genders whoever however you are but I think when you're when you're you have to be called something it's like prison yeah I don't think we should be living in prisons yeah but we're not living in prisons but we clearly are different like especially you and I of course you and I are very we're very different very different yeah I'd be

27:55super confused if you were anything like me i' be like I know what to do with this yeah no but I think all humans we're all different right I mean I I think it's crazy that we get put into these generalized packs we kind of do yeah but for too there's also just a I mean there's a broad spectrum of behavior that is is on one side of the fence or the other side of the fence whether it's male or female but there's definitely a male and female in in in most people and then there's people that are you know then it gets real weird people that are born or in some way don't want to be whatever gender they are I think it's kind of cool I don't think it's that they don't want to be they just aren't I think some people just aren't and some people don't want to be and I think it's like we were talking about earlier about that Rachel doel woman and I have to disagree here

28:44well this is what I think I don't think we could ever possibly know the motivation for every single person correct who's transgender or transracial or trans anything well gender though is not as you know yourself under no circumstances do you choose your gender you don't you're not that powerful I don't think most people do but I think some people it's entirely possible that you could be a woman and decide you know what I want to be a man I'm tired of this I don't like it it's it's well within the realm of that's a different thing isn't it I mean you're right and I'm sure there there are circumstances like that but that I think is a different thing entirely maybe but would it be any less legitimate it be any less legitimate if a woman felt compelled just by curiosity to become a man versus compelled by her feeling I think that's identity flirtation as

29:35opposed to gender flirtation or gender choice or gender manifestation I'm using the wrong words here I think people could do whatever the they want I met a dude I met that lizard dude once in Austin Texas do you know who that guy is he's turned himself into a lizard he's essentially tattooed his entire body talking he split his tongue down the middle he sat in the front row on my show at the Cap City comedy club and I was like well you don't need a lot of attention do you buddy sit right in the front row looking like a lizard very nice guy though seemed like a super nice guy but he's uh you know I mean look at this guy well that that's before he did his whole face seen him before he's kind of amazing looking though yeah uh definitely weird I don't know about amazing if that was my kid that is amazing come on if you saw that in an art gallery you would be like that is

30:24amazing maybe you and I have a different sense of amazing maybe we do yeah that seems like a guy with drawing on his face but hey this is coming from a guy with drawing all over his arms I think it's pretty incredible I mean who am I to say that it's I mean this that's a cultural thing right like why is it okay that I have tattoos all over my arms and I don't think it's right to tattoo your face I wouldn't say that like you should be able to do whatever the you want yeah and he has done but it's a cultural thing I mean for some people like I was in Japan and they made me I was in a gym and they made me go and put a long sleeve shirt on cuz you can't have exposed tattoos like this well I guess cuz there are feelings towards your arms are the same feelings that you're having towards his his face right too so you are for one second the lizard man yes a little bit a little bit just for those

31:10of you who are not in the studio right now who are listening to just just just take my word for it that Joe is with me right now no I'm not with you he is guys he is is we're having fun this is a fun conversation when don't you think when someone's with you that's like a negative thing right no no oh God no no I often for fun well I think we just did a we just did a play on words there yay hey there life in us yet exactly yeah so um so what's the latest with you you guys are touring again uh we're going on tour in the summer yeah um that's only like month away or something a month away yeah it's hot as here now it's hot as America stop yeah you guys are used to rain I I like it cold I must admit do you mhm but uh we are going out on tour we're we're going to do something in my mind pretty sort of historical in a funny way like we going out on a headline tour with uh

32:18Blondie legendary debie Harry wow do you know her I do know her actually I and I love her and she's been somewhat of a mentor to me in a way cuz she was managed by a a very famous music manager called Gary kurur who managed theiron and Talking Heads and blond and so on so forth he was the one who basically sort plucked me from my band he saw that he thought I had potential and he was like you know I I think you have potential to be in the music business and he signed me in the end and blah blah blah blah blah and anyway he introduced me to Debbie and Debbie came and saw my band open for the rmon in the academy in New York during the new music seminar one year and I was shaking like a leaf I've told this story a million times but it's one of my favorite memories of stepping out on stage on the academy and of course Ramon's fans that were pretty hardcore you know they weren't taking

33:07fools lightly yeah and you had to prove yourself so I was very very nervous and I looked down into the MOs pit and Debbie Harry was there and I just was like I will love you forever anything you ask of me I am your slave you are like for someone of that caliber to do that it meant so much to me and it's sort of even in times of when I've doubted myself I always think Debbie didn't doubt me wow so yeah I'm very excited to be going out with her wow that's heavy I might tear up tear come on te little bit a little bit come on get into the you know the emotional oh then acting she was uh a very unique historical figure in music there was no Debbie Harry before Debbie Harry it's like you can look at some no M before Debbie Harry right there was no Lady Gaga know she did it all really she's the archetype I think for a modern pop girl and she was very authentic like there was no questioning her

34:03authenticity like she was uniquely eccentric oh she still is yeah i' would imagine yeah I mean to be 70 and to be still making records that's incredible that's pretty badass it's really badass and really inspiring for other women you know who follow in our footsteps who you know will watch it's the first time I can think of like a woman has had a pop care over that long well isn't it a new thing I mean if you really stop and think about music really what we're talking about is recorded music and recorded music in modern times is really only been since the late 20th century right I mean when did people or the early 20th century rather when did people first start recording music we've gone over this before they started doing on wax in like the 1700s is that what it was something along those lines I don't think it was that late I think it was in the early 1900s let's let's find out

34:54let's see if you Thomas Edison had those wax cylinders that they recording talking and a little bit of Orchestra stuff on to play in those like right those did you just pull that out of your brain no we've actually discussed this yeah but yeah this is one of your favorite topics no we have discussed it like fairly recently within the last year we were talking about how amazing it is that recording things like like Mozart or Beethoven like there was no recording it was just written work and you know people would duplicate that written work and that's how you would get to see the genius of their ideas here 1877 wow okay but that's a practical sound recording yeah but when you compare that to like a record a modern record I mean we'll call it a record but I mean a recording a modern recording like Blondie like Rapture or something like that I mean that

35:45is there's never been anything like that in human history up until the 19 or the 20th century I mean it really didn't exist no so when you think about like pop stars you know I mean Atma or I mean what however far you can go back to where you can legitimately say someone was a popular music star it is so recent it's within a hundred years well it's like Elvis I think was the first popular star correct right yeah that's why he went crazy there no no road map yeah well none of them had road maps that's what we forget like if you we were talking about this recently with a bunch of friends is how accomplished Young Musicians are right now like if they they can be 15 years old and you can watch them perform and they've got all the moves and they can sing perfectly cuz they've practiced singing along on YouTube to you know digitally enhanced recordings so they can do stuff

36:34with their voice that we never could you know and so they're learning at an accelerated rate but they don't understand what it means to have any kind of motivation or like have any authentic taste or you know it's really peculiar they don't have a struggle yet they're like Terminators no you know they're they're perfect but they don't have any no inside they well I'm sure they do have an inside but not who to 15 no one you can abort them shut up who is like who it's just you're off the charts right now but it's true it's really insane like yeah it is they can sing along to these mad records that have been all sort of you know Auto aut autotuned and this that the next thing and they can sing it perfectly well I was reading about this 24-year-old motivational speaker and uh I was like I want to find that person tell them to shut the up how can they 24 yeah what do you know

37:29what do you know at 24 I don't know anything at 50 tell people about life at 24 that's preposterous yeah it's Preposterous yeah it's like my friend Steve Maxwell says he said you should never listen to anyone who is under 40 who is a personal trainer he's a personal trainer he's like anybody who's under 40 is a personal trainer like what the do they know about injuries true yeah doing the running the Long Haul yeah there's a lot to learn there's a lot there is I I I am amazed I continue I thought I had it all SED out by 30 I mean I remember thinking I'm so old and I'm so wise I mean I remember thinking that and then you hit 50 and you're like oh my God I knew nothing yeah and you probably think that when you're 70 my dad claims that's the case he laughs at me my dad laughs at me when I you know say something that he thinks it's absolutely L ludicrous you know and

38:16he's like just you wait just you wait you'll you'll eat those words you know well I feel like that's a big part of what you see today in social media with young kids espousing really Preposterous ideas to like they're so they have so little experience actual life experience for them do you yeah I feel sad for all these like young hipsters that get luded by you know fashion magazines literally at the age of 15 I think it's the fetishizing of young people right now really gives me the creeps and and I feel very sad for these young people who basically get are like these beautiful butterflies and a you know a glass jar gets shoved on top of them and then they're stuck there being cool in hip o but no with no driver no no nothing to fight against nothing to be dissatisfied with I don't know it's just peculiar I think meanwhile they're doing Aderall and having a great old

39:08time they're looking at you they're like this crazy lady I'm sure oh so just because you made a bunch of hit records you think you can tell me how to live my life I like being in this goddamn glass jar I never for one moment would ever tell somebody how to live their life what I don't like seeing is people not being allowed to live their lives oh I saw this kid somebody sent me this thing on Twitter some kid I forget where it was some Pop Festival but he's like 12 years old playing the guitar and he's incredible I mean incredible and they were like saying uh he's the next Jimmy Hendrick some little black kid who's amazing like just like just unbelievably talented and I'm just like boy he's check in with him in 10 years he'll be crazy well that's what it feels like to me it's creepy it's like so many people send me you know uh recordings of young particularly

39:59young women um artists and they're like you know would you think about you know supporting this girl or what do you think of this and that live your life right I think go out live your life don't let your parents figure out your career for you that's what you're supposed to do you're not supposed to have your parents who happens to have an inn with a well-known singer or producer whatever pump pimping you you know that's that's how you learn it's by actually doing it yourself and I don't know I just feel it's creepy and feels pedophilic to me and I don't like it it can it definitely can be right yeah but when you were young when did you know that you wanted to be a singer I don't think I ever knew I wanted to be a singer I want to be you know now yes I know something happened somewhere along the line but very recently I mean literally in the last I'm serious in the

40:43last 10 years I was like I'm really good at this actually and I enjoy it and I guess this is what I do for a living this is my thing in 10 the last 10 years 10 years so what was going on with you like when stupid girl was coming out well I felt like I'd stumbled into that opportunity which I did um I wanted to be first of all I wanted to be a writer then I wanted to be an actress and then by total default I was in a a youth theater when I was young and I met this guy and he was like oh would you come and play keyboards in my band for a weekend because we've lost our keyboard player and I joined the band and then I just ended up being in that band for 10 years playing keyboards and doing back of vocals I was quite happy I didn't have I didn't Harbor any ambition to be a lead singer at all and then just a billion and one things happened and I ended up being the lead

41:33singer of this very same band just so that we could survive cuz we'd been dropped by our record label for going to Berlin and spending all our money on our record Advance on drugs and coming back and not have anything to show for it so the record company dropped us but kept me and so then I pulled the band in as my band so we just sort of shifted all the rules oh wow so I found myself as the lead singer by default and then our video what kind of drugs oh it was mostly speed and ecstasy speed mhm how much money you're spending on speed Jesus Christ it was it was an inordinate amount of money that got spent it was our entire record Advance how much was it I can't remember I think it was something like £100,000 what is that like $50,000 American somewhere around there I think it's double that double that oh it's 200,000 it's double oh I'm doing it the opposite oh my God how the did you

42:26spend I don't know I don't know how we did it I mean it wasn't all on speed and it was alcohol and you know going out and drink you know drinking and partying and just wasting time and you in America we call that going off we we went off you guys went off we went totally off and I wasn't one of the the really I I was one of the sober ones for the most part I mean you know and I know I did my share but by comparison I kept my together but anyway we we wasted our opportunity there but by default I became a lead singer our video got played MTV and then I just chanced upon garbage the garbage boys needed a singer and I got hired and and so I always felt I just fumbled into it by going off so to speak wowow that's crazy yeah it was it was pretty mad and then I never believed in myself for my whole first half of my what I call the first phase of garbage wow you know that's a really

43:20common thing we were just talking about this the other day with somebody I forget who it was where they were saying that so many really talented people feel illegitimate they felt like they're not legitimate or they felt you think everybody feels legit I don't think it's even artists I think it's everybody who what parent sits there and goes yeah I'm a parent yeah I know how to parent my children and yeah I know how to pay the bills and get the work done and keep the house nobody knows how to do anything right no well you you definitely question yourself all the time yeah like how old are your kids well I have uh I have three I have one that's 20 I have one that's almost nine and one that's almost eight wow yeah or almost seven rather and I was hanging out all day with the almost 7 yesterday and uh you know we were just having a great old time like we we have days we split up

44:05where I just hang out with one kid and my wife will hang out with one kid CU I think sometimes when you get the two of them together the young ones they don't get enough attention especially the little one suffers a little bit so we have like specific days where it's just and so the entire time we're trying to have a good time we're having fun but I'm also thinking okay I've got to like figure we're kind I'm kind of programming her here as this go so every question I have to kind of temper this question well you have to think that these people probably don't know any better so that's probably why they litter you know and see like she gets mad when she sees people throw cigarettes out the window I saw a guy throw a cigarette out the window did you see that Daddy he threw a cigarette out the window and I'm like well it's definitely not good to throw cigarettes

44:49out the window but you have to think like this poor person like what kind of a mind do they have like this this the way their brain works they think it's okay they're not like if I drop something on the ground I pick it up do you pick it up she's like I always pick it up I go yeah we pick things up right we don't want to litter cuz if everybody lived we would never be able to get anywhere just be garbage everywhere so stressful being a parent really it's stressful but reward is there's it's really you don't have kids I don't it's very hard to describe to someone the love that you experience between you and this little tiny person like me and the six almost seven when when we talk like and she just jumps on me and hugs me like my whole body has this reaction like the love meter it's like you know a carnival thing where you hit the thing on the bottom and the bell

45:37goes ding you know like the the the metal thing shoots up and hits the Bell it hits the bell every time whenever she gives me this big hug it's like I can't you can't love anybody anymore the love that I have for her is it's CRA it's weird it's scary because you worried about losing them it's scary because you worried about it up it's scary because just cuz it's so powerful it's really powerful changes you changes who you are I mean it's just it 100% changed me just made me a different completely different person and it does every day every day I'm a different person than I was like a week ago and I talk to a lot of other my friends that have kids and it's the same thing like it changes your level of comp um compassion it changes who you like Dave Chappelle said it best to me he said it didn't just Chang my how much I love it changed my capacity for love wow I was like that's it I

46:29think you nailed it I mean I had a tiny I have a tiny window into it cuz my sister my younger sister had two children and I felt towards her children differently than I do any other child oh yeah so that's just a small window into how I imagine it is for her with her children and we talk about this a lot I'm like I just don't think I could handle that it would be too I'm too sens I'm too hyper sensitive to I think take the responsibility on of being a parent you think though but you would it changes you like you whoever you are now once if a little person comes out of your body you just you're like okay now I'm surely with a person this like chapter 2 you know or surely 2.0 or whatever it is yeah I'm sure it changes how you view yourself and your function on Earth I would imagine it does it does and it also makes you appreciate like my my time is fairly um it's flexible in terms of like

47:21I can manipulate my time I can kind of choose what I do like I don't really have to do anything I choose to do a lot of different things but people that do have to do things like especially couples where both work and they work long hours that's incredibly hard to raise children I mean you see how tired they are too when they come home from a 9 10 hour day and their kid has been in daycare and the kid just can't wait to see them and then you you literally only have an hour with them before they go to bed like you're not even raising them no well my relationship was like that with my dad like when my mom died a few years ago my dad came over here to Los Angeles to to to stay with us and we went out for lunch and I'm sitting across from my dad I'm 45 years old and I'm thinking to myself I have never sat alone with you in a restaurant in my life Wow ever it

48:10was really weird wow because my dad worked hard you know and he was always busy and yeah it was it was an intense realization so it's I think it's great that you take time oneon-one with your kids cuz I didn't have that with my dad I didn't have that either I tried to well I mean I'm sure they're going to learn something that I up that they're not going to do you just have to accept you're going to up yeah just don't try to up don't try to F try to do your best but try do your best but I just but sometimes the things that you do in adverted commas get right are the things that do I think the most damage and sometimes the things that you do wrong the so-called big mistakes can also be really good for children and I'm not talking about when they get at at no point should a child ever be hurt in any way in you know I'm not saying that's a good thing that that's a terrible thing

48:56that must never happen but I mean like you know I know a lot of parents who sort of really get down on themselves cuz they divorce for a random example and I have seen children Bloom through divorce yeah you know and I keep saying that some that to my some of my friends who are going through that is like you're not you're not making a big mistake you're teaching them to not settle and there's good things that can come from bad things I guess is what I'm trying to say yeah no for sure my parents split up when I was five and it was a very good thing and it it taught me that my mom was strong for leaving my my dad and then like you have to make tough choices in life and then things are going to suck for a while but there's a reason for it yeah but you know pressure makes diamonds it just I mean you said it much more articulately than I did but but we're getting to the

49:42same place I guess yeah well it's a really it's a uncomfortable moment that I have with a lot of my friends that have children too because we sit around and we think about it we say well you know what you try to protect your kids as much as possible but everybody that we know that's interesting came from a up background like all of my friends had up childhoods all of them all my artistic friends all my friends that are musicians all my friends that are comedians they just came from chaos and they emerged from this Rubble as this like this person with a purpose absolutely but see I've I'm I've gone quiet and I've gone quiet because it's getting back to the the the moment that I have in or the feeling I have in myself that I am an inauthentic artist cuz I didn't come from a up background all my friends every single one of my friends when I was growing up

50:32from the age of five onwards they came from broken homes every single one maybe you learned from them except I don't know but I came from a really happy family my mom wore a penny she baked every day what's a penny a penny you know an apron oh kind of like what I'm wearing right now fing up but um yeah she wore a an apron she baked every single day she like warmed our clothes on the stove before we went to school I mean she cooked us dinners every single night they were always at home they were always there they loved us they were never cruel I mean I came from the most abnormal normal family ever and it's always made me think well that means that I'm not I'm just not not I'm not legit so crazy yeah I got up anyway yeah but it's not it's not mandatory like it's it certainly happens a lot of the time but it can't be mandatory all the time but I just don't yeah I like I I

51:32always sort of feel and this is really sick of mild Envy when I hear my friends talk about you know their up upbringings cuz I'm like God I'm so normal I used to feel that way about people who are drug addicts what do you mean I used to feel that way because all the greats as comedians were drug addicts Richard prior Kennison Bill Hicks they were all drug addicts yeah they all had like huge cocaine problems they you know Hicks was the only one that got through it but then he want up dying of cancer you know who knows maybe because of that but you know Kennison was a cocan I don't know who K is who's he you don't know Sam Kennis no I've never even heard of him really wow he's Mount Rushmore for sure he might be the great well I think Richard Pryor is the greatest but he's right up there kennison's like number two in my book I I not heard of this person I don't know

52:22I don't know how you he was a fat guy you never you never SE even recognize him oh my God this is like pull up Sam kennison's uh homosexual necrophiliacs he did this bit this is this bit was this is a bit that got explained to me by a girl that I used to work with this is a bit I found out about this PA pause for a second I worked at a um this is one of the reasons why I got into standup comedy I worked at an athletic club in South Boston it's called the Boston Athletic Club and I worked with the girl she was hilarious she was a volleyball player big giant girl she was like 5'11 big athletic big personality okay easy easy she was hilarious but what I'm saying is she told me about you've got to see this comedian holy was he funny she saw him on HBO and so she starts doing this bit she's like she takes me out to the parking lot and she's doing this bit about there's a real news story about

53:19these homosexual necrophiliacs who would pay these morgs to spend a few hours undisturbed with the fresh male corpses so play the bit play the bit we'll play the bit here I read the paper they said that a group of homosexual necrophiliacs and going around to mortuaries offering them money to let them come in at night and spend a couple hours undisturbed with the freshest male corpse I wasn't trying to sell this is a home game all right it's a story I read folks Jesus Christ give me a chance to do some journalistic reporting here where up I felt the same way I read this thing I'm went oh oh oh thanks for the visual hey I felt sorry for these corpses man I mean you think death would be bad enough wouldn't you I mean the one thing that scares the out of everybody is dead you don't want to think about it you don't joke about it you put it out of your mind but you

54:27figure if you faced it that's it what could be worse than death you fig I got bash death I mean you hated it but at least you live through it you know you got buy it and all that I felt sorry for these corpses cuz I know these guys were laying out on slabs they're there're going well life was tough and uh that was pretty hard to live up to and uh I have I faced death and I'm glad I went through it and uh well I'm just now I'm ready to spend eternity in heaven with Jesus and Rock of Ages hey hey what's this oh I don't believe this oh my God a guy's dick in my ass oh you me why keeps in the ass even after you're dead oh never never this girl she's she was Li she laid down in the parking lot and she was going you me live keeps in the ass even after you're dead and I'm crying laughing I was crying and I I was like I got to see this I got to see this and so I think I got it from a video

55:35store I think it was back when you would rent it from a VHS you know cassette and that's how I found out about Sam Kennison and that's one of the reasons why I got into standup comedy because I didn't know that comedy was ever like that I thought comedy was a guy who just stood in front of the microphone and said did you ever notice like that kind of stuff so what is what does what what is being a comedian to you mean no oh it's bunch of different possibilities but it was so chaotic like his his comedy was so wild and crazy like there was he was a real ground breaker in that way and why else did you get into being a comedian I don't know I got talk doing it no I wasn't really very funny I wasn't funny you have siblings yeah I have a sister how many sister yeah so it was just you and your mom and your sister yeah well my mom remarried step who she still with today and do you

56:28like him yeah he's a great guy okay yeah Super Lucky he's a real good guy okay good but um it was uh I got talked into doing standup by my friends from martial arts for real cuz we would well you must have been funny well I was only funny it was like Gallo's humor we would go to compete like like or we would be about to spar and I would be the guy who would make everybody laugh because everybody was so nervous because it was scary you beat the out of each other you know and then we would go to these competitions so we'd get on a bus and travel across the country to go fight in these tournaments and it was super nerve-wracking everyone was super nervous so you could like cut the tension with a knife so I would always like be doing impressions of people having sex and making jokes and I just this was like long before I ever thought about being comedian I was just trying

57:17to lighten up the mood wow and that's how I got into stand up so hold on a minute so see this is a bit of a surprise to me because when people fight you know semi-professionally or otherwise or at school or what have you it's nerve-wracking no it's terrifying because you're scared of pain violence the anticipation of the possibility of losing you're worried about the just all the possibilities the this the just the full realm of things that can happen so why do you do it I know I'm sing like a m and I just have never had the opportunity to ask anyone who's ever done this um I was very insecure and um I got bullied and I wasn't big I was a small kid and I was really nervous and I did not like that feeling at all and I I was always we were always moving around a lot we always moved to new places I was always the new kid were you a military kid or no my my my Mom married my stepdad we

58:16moved across the country from New Jersey to San Francisco and then we lived there for a while and then we moved to Florida and then we moved to Boston and he he switched careers and he was a computer programmer and then we became an architect and so there's a lot yeah there was a lot of traveling and I just was always the the new kid and the new kid gets with and most of the time was fine but as we got started getting older that's when it got creepy like Mo most of the time was no big deal like at 9 and 10 it's no big deal but when it gets to be like 13 and 14 then it starts getting violent and so like kids would pick on me and I didn't know how to fight and it it drove me crazy like I was like God I I I hate the fact that when these kids want to fight me I don't know what to do and I'm I'm terrified so I'd be like go go home the long way around so I'd avoid

59:03everybody and that kind of yeah so I decided to learn martial arts I said well what am I afraid of I'm afraid of people that know how to fight well I'll I'm really know how to fight W so I went into it then it became my whole life like from from High School freshman year on really from um 15 is when I went crazy so from 15 on that's all I did every day like six seven days a week I was teaching I was I I became uh I was I was teaching when I was 17 I was that's what I was doing like every day I was teaching at Boston University when I was 18 or 19 and I was that's became my whole life were you born in Boston no I was born in New Jersey right how come you don't have the crazy accent got rid of it I heard myself on TV I won the Bay State Games it was this big uh like an Olympic Festival um where they had all the Olympic sports and Taekwondo had not been in the Olympics yet but it was

59:58about to be so they had it in the Bas St games and I won so they interviewed me on TV and I remember talk I was like very specifically say we were working really hard and I was like I heard the accent that accent it was so bad I heard the video and I was like oh my God what the is wrong with me like I I had taken on that accent out of insecurity cuz I only lived there since I was 13 right so from 13 to 19 in 6 years I developed a stupid accent you just wanted to fit I wanted to fit in yeah then I realized how dumb it was so I abandoned it but it'll come out a little bit if I get drunk like every now and then cool same thing to me you didn't grow up in it yeah of course it's gross when you hear it out a girl me hard it's just like it's like too many R the the r thing it stretches out yeah I wonder where it comes from like the mix of the Irish I suppose although the Irish don't

60:52speak like that no Irish is beautiful I like that accent pretty there's something about the Boston accident it's just particularly gross so hold on so sorry to ask you these questions so you are you fighting and then your your pal talked you into becoming Steve Graham two of my friends Edge shorter and Steve Graham Steve Graham still one of my best friends today he was an opthalmologist at the time W amazing yeah and so encourage you to what go to you told me I should be class or like literally grabbed me by my shoulders and said you should be a comedian so then what happened I went to an open mic night I watched amateurs try it and one of the good things about amateurs is uh if you go to watch like most of them don't know what they're doing they're terrible so I was like okay well I can't be as I you know at least I'm not going to be the only one who sucks so like if if I go up and do

61:43that I can do what they're doing they suck I suck too but they suck so it's not like you're going up and Richard prior on you know Richard Jenny and you felt you could take the competition well no I felt like I wouldn't be the only one who sucked like people who really suck inspire you to do it because they'll they lower the bar of expectation cuz like if I went up there and it was all these really amazing Comedians and then me I'd be like oh I can't do this I I'm terrible at it because the learning curve of standup comedy is so long sure and especially when you're 21 you don't know I didn't know anything about life or anything well of course you didn't exactly so I was terrible but somehow or another these guys talked me into doing it so and do you still do your stand up yeah constantly yeah yeah that's great yeah you turned it around on me surely you sure did yeah you did interesting

62:34clever girl yeah don't know about that I wish you don't you don't think you're clever I don't think I'm particularly clever I can think fast on my feet that makes you clever but I have a serious attention deficit disorder yeah see I hear that a lot from people I usually think think that what that means is you really enjoy certain things so much that other things suck for you and you just get distracted I bet you don't I bet you don't have an attention deficit disorder when you're singing your songs no of course not ah but that again is is not uh material you have to retrieve it's just sort of in there you open your mouth and it comes out right but do you think that it's possible that you achieve these high frequencies of delight and of stimulate when you're performing and when you're I mean you got to think that when you're on stage what's the biggest crowd you've

63:32ever performed for this sounds like I'm making it up because even I can hardly believe it but we played in front of 300,000 people in Samara Russia and that was the trippiest experience of my life oh my God at the time it was the biggest Music Festival that i' had ever been like you couldn't see the end of the crowd wow now I look at glass and BR small you know how it goes yeah so think of that think of that experience how many people are ever going to feel that how many ever people people are ever going to rock out in front of 300,000 people so I think that some people there the the moments of Brilliance these moments of spectacular experience that they have are so different than most people's lives most I totally disagree 100% disagree because I know that people's capacity for joy that it's a certain experience that we all have like I can go out to dinner and if you're

64:39having a really great meal and you're with people that you love and are really and you are laughing yourself sick I have the same feelings as I do when I'm having a good show I don't think it like it's not like my career is the highlight of my life it's a it's a joyous part of my life life that plays a role in in my enjoyment of being on Earth that sounds very balanced but I'm not saying that true so I think my point being is that I just think if you enjoy your job if you love your wife if you have great sex with your boyfriend or your girlfriend if you have a baby you know that moment when they put the baby in your arms you know exactly what it's like to play in front of 300,000 people you know I don't think that's correct I think that is correct you're the only one to be able to tell us though I'm telling you you must take it from an authority Guth there's no den I dare you argue

65:32with me I cannot what I was going to say though is that your experience and the intensity is so high that your capacity to appreciate boring is probably very low and that's one of the reasons why people would L label it like attention deficit you probably just don't want to pay attention to that you're not passionate about I wish that was the case but there is moments when somebody's telling me something and I'm thinking to myself okay remember this cuz this is important and or this is really cool you could use this I do all all the time I'm going hold this information hold this fact hold this and then I try and tell somebody 24 hours later about this incredible story I was told and I can't remember anything about it that's called being a person it drives me insane yeah but you haven't slipped away at all during this conversation no I'm intense yeah you've

66:20been locked on I'm intense and I am awake you are a you're woke and I'm I'm off if I hear if I hear that expression one more time I might hit the next person of whose mouth it comes out of that is an expression that never had its day it was a joke it had it day no it was a joke from the moment it first came out trust me it had it day with who fools also yes yes only fools no no like person that I know like ever said that word without being in you must be joking no well I hang out with a lot of comedians a lot yeah you you're well very fast and quick and funny but also they think it's ridiculous it's also your job as a comedian to take the piss out of all us normal Norms that is one thing that I love that you guys say take the piss yeah I like that that is a great expression Scotland has some incredible like yes incredible expressions and and sort of the most one

67:16of the best things that happened to me lately was I got retweeted by William Gibson really who I'm a big fan of and he retweeted a a a Scottish a link that I'd done on or I'd done for the nme on Scottish swearing and the fact that he had reposted my tutorial on Scottish swearing made my life call me sad if you want but it was like the most glorious moment of my career or one them that's not sad at all there's nothing sad about I was so ched but yeah the Scots are really funny you know it's a small culture because it's bad weather I mean these are Stupify uh sort of cliches I'm I'm spewing here but because it's a small country because it's bad weather because we spend a lot of time talking to one another passing one another in the street there's a lot of humor that in America I find is not quite as acute you know people are used to verbally sparring in Scotland because

68:09you're against people all the time pushing past them in shops you know traveling in the tube being on the bus blah blah blah blah blah whereas in America everything's more spread out and you're not around people so much so when you are in face to face with them people are a little more polite in Scotland there is absolutely no politeness well you guys have that big Comedy Festival there every year edinb yeah have you been there yet no haven't been look get your ass over there I need to AR shafir Raves about it but that goes everywhere he's crazy you should go there it's incredible it's an incredible circuit for funny men like yourself you guys have Billy Connelly he's hilarious he can't Billy connley is great and hilarious hilarious yeah he's not well though no he's not he's not doing he's got a really sad degenerative disease sadly oh no what is it yeah we're going

68:56to lose him soon I think a fe oh no really what is it I think it's Parkinson's or or dementia I can't remember was one one of the two anyway he's a brilliant mind very funny man that sucks but uh you should get your ass over there they would love you that bad weather thing I think that's why Boston has so many funny comedians I'm sure it does I'm serious I'm not I mean it is a ridiculous cliche but I'm sure it plays a small part in oh it's not it's not cliche at all 100% yeah I mean in Boston the same thing a lot of bad weather a lot of cold snow people indoors people long Winters I guess that's true oh yeah no tolerance for stupid no tolerance for also work ethic like hard work ethic there very hard yeah yeah no tolerance for Meandering no it's very different it's it's a different way of thinking certainly than Los Angeles in my experience too soft out here people

69:53people are very polite and and they are soft for want of a better term it's like I find that sometimes when I make jokes people don't know how to flip it back you know like Scot everybody's joking all the time and it's really fast sort of dialogue yeah people panic people panic and they they're scared they're going to offend you and believe me say the wrong thing and yeah sometimes I have to go on double dates with my wife and sometimes I'll crack a joke and the whole table be like what yeah that's that's me too I what have you done yeah and I always go home and in the car I'll say to my husband I'm I'm really sorry if I embarrassed you tonight and he says he's always got this classic he went you didn't embarrass me you only embarrass yourself is he serious or joking kind of half and half I mean it's definitely we both know when I've said something mildly

70:43inappropriate do do you feel like you're like because you're from Scotland that you have like to temper that all the time I do try and temper it a lot but sometimes I forget you know and then there's the Crickets over you know oh my God I'm my my poor husband who's very very sort of quiet like he's very quiet oh and he thinks a lot before he speaks and uh I can just see him in his mind I mean he loves me and he doesn't it doesn't bother him at all he he did he doesn't get embarrassed but he has to but you can see him gting his lines you know like oh God did she just say that was the expression you use gting is loin gting is loins gting I don't even know what that means girting what is girting go oh I think you're the first person on this podcast ever said Google a to me oh it's hilarious gerting how do you spell it ging gird gird g i r d i n g Jamie you never heard that before have

71:44you this is the first time in all my years I've heard gerting gerting your loins I would imagine it be clenching yes yes you're right yeah I just context put it together gird here you go in circle uh with a belt or a band young woman a young man was a was to be girded with a belt of Knighthood oh okay you have to look up Scottish gird well it makes sense giring you're talking about constricting giring guard your loins guard one's Lo prepare and strengthen oneself for what is to come get ready or Gear Up gear up G your loins wow good one we are learning on this show this is a this is a show of Education stick around there's plenty more where that comes from so are you fired up about this tour are you excited about this of course yeah my God yeah I love I love playing I mean I'm sure there is a certain kind of high you get when you go off in the road and you you can stop worrying about

72:46bills you stop worrying about money stop worrying about you know the pain in your ankle you you know you just have no worries you just go on a tour bus and you get busted from to be you get a little email every day that tells you exactly what you're doing you know at noon you have a tour manager that handle tour manager yes oh that's nice yes so um I I love going on tour and it's an honor to be playing with Blondie and uh the fans are very excited and how many days you go for I think it's about 7even weeks all in all which is a small tour for us that's a long time we normally go out for a year a year a year yeah on and off you know I mean you come home for bits but generally it's a sort of yearlong thing used to be two years but then the music industry got crushed by music file sharing and so it's a slightly different game now but isn't the touring business the same or how

73:41does that work well yes and no I mean the problem with the touring business now is that it's the only way a musician can make money so now the competition to score venues in which you can play are it's getting higher and higher High I I noticed that as a comedian really difficult it's a huge issue like I have to book stuff like a year in advance year Advance yeah so Book edin Festival next year come on you'll love it you'll learn all kinds of phrases that you can employ in your standup that nobody's ever used in America lots of original material H maybe H so well you guys though you were in the business when the money was being made yes we were oh my God it was like what is it around like 2000 when the the the floor dropped out the floor was beginning to drop out and then 2001 came around in September 11th and well Napster was was yeah that was the beginning of the end yeah did you see

74:38the writing on the wall did you think they were going to be able to pass that hole no I totally saw the writing on the w i actually wrote about it at the time I ran a Blog a music blog which was you know one of the first back then cuz no musicians didn't have blogs we didn't really use computers up to that point so I had this blog and I was very vocal about Napster and I uh I was I could foresee the issues that you know that presented themselves but the the the industry itself was so greedy it refused to adapt you know and as a done been done I don't know that's not my place to worry about it really but um they just contined to want to make money via CDs and physical sales and they refused sort of to make the kind of deals that they really needed to and digital deals yeah yeah it took a while before people started selling things on iTunes and what have you but there wasn't really a

75:30a venue for it before that they would have had to create like they would have had to create it but they were the only ones who had the power and the financial resources to do so you know so and and as a result now of course they're the only ones making money the companies the record companies continue to make vast amounts of money off artists YouTube makes vast amounts of money off artists and the artist makes nothing I don't think the general public are fully aware of what a crime spree it is crime a crime spree it's a crime spree but who's who's committing the crimes well they're tiny crimes committed against each artist that that com like compiles a vast library of digital content that through which massive companies conglomerates make money from by just sheer Mass but the artist themselves makes you know less than a penny a pop less than a penny of Pop you

76:23know so like if you guys like I bought your albums on iTunes well we're a bad example too because we are our own record label at this point you are your own record La yes we're a bad example we're one of the lucky ones when did you figure this out by a lot of getting up the asss and you know no lube was used and you know yeah we we we are we were around long enough that some of our masters reverted to us and so we could make really lucrative deals for ourselves and protect our catalog and you know it's blah blah blah it's so boring but it's boring it's fascinating but For Young Artists I I don't know I despair it's like you know you're you're hooked up to a record label the record label makes money by your records getting played on YouTube for an example you don't not really I mean it's like a 0.0375 percentage of a penny that you might get played after about a thousand

77:17million plays on YouTube I mean it's it's bizarre but you know it's how how it is what what is the justification for a record company at this point it seems like with with distribution yeah but like where are they Distributing it the world but to where to what in what in what Manner in a variety of different manners I mean they now do 360 degre so they take a percentage of absolutely everything a band errand which was not the case before generally speaking they now sew up your publishing they sew up your performance rights they so up your merch they any endorsements you get you know see that seems up to me it is up does doesn't seem like it's worth it like what do they what do they bring to the table all they are is just a bunch of people stealing money except if you're a massive pop star like you're a Beyonce or a Gaga or Kate Perry or a Bieber what have you then that company

78:08can use its resources to make you even bigger and that's why these these pop stars who continue to make commercial sounding music get bigger and bigger and bigger and more and more powerful until they can just buy their way into the consciousness of the of public culture hm but radio is not much of a thing anymore no no no it's not radio anymore but it's visibility you have to have visibility so what is it that's getting people visible these days like like it used to be a song would be a top 40 hit on the radio and then everybody would hear about it and you'd want to go out and buy the record well I think most young people get it on the web but like how does but viral music like if you release a song and and you're with your label it's your own thing and you put it on YouTube and say someone like me comes along that has a lot of uh Twitter followers and I say

78:58this is awesome and I retweet it and then a bunch of other people retweet it that's all it takes today right yes and no I mean you have to have a song though that's easily digestible which is why there's so few musicians now taking real risks because other if they take a risk they don't have a sharable song you know that appeals to the masses then so you die but you see what I mean I mean I'm not articulating myself very well that Kendrick Lamar guy is that guy is he independent is he the guy that's independent which guy Chance the Rapper Chance the Rapper he's the guy that's independent and he's enormous right yes so how the did he do it well there's obviously always an exception to the rule and he's extraordinary you know he's an extraordinary talent and and usually when somebody hasn't reached public Consciousness yet there's a lot of hype around them you know people want

79:46to be in the know they want to talk about the new artist that everybody doesn't know about so on so forth so they enjoy like a massive swell right um and hopefully he'll be able to build upon that but it'll be harder for him the next time around what I'm getting at is that it's it is fascinating to me that the record companies have managed to stay even remotely relevant because like well because they made all these deals with all these new companies I know but that's that's where it gets really creepy right I think it's creepy it is creepy it is creepy if someone who's not in the business it's creepy because I'm I'm looking at like what they bring to the table and there's not a lot well they bring as I said distribution and if you don't I know this first hand because it's very difficult for us to get to distribute our music because we don't have a distribution label that can

80:31compete right but when you say distribution like distribute it wherewhere wherever they can so whether that's ads on the street whether that's ads on the television whether it's ads on the radio whether it's ads on YouTube and so on so forth it's just an accumulative like awareness of an artist so they're almost manufacturing like public interest kind of yeah I mean they have to have a semblance of something good you know they you can't I mean you can sell as it turns out but that's again the exception to the rule right generally speaking they'll have a catchy song and they can if they push it to enough Minds eyes they can have a hit wow what a weird transition they're like vampires they figured out how to remain indoors yeah it's very strange and and is kind of bad really as that's why you're seeing fewer and fewer artists that have long careers because like I said you can

81:31generate a lot of excitement when it's your first record that's sort of the when it's easiest right but by the time it comes to your second record a lot of these artists that we hear about are already dead and buried under a billion one other new artists yeah do I'm sure you read that Courtney Love article that she wrote many many years ago about the music business about how complicated it is and this is pre all this digital stuff she wrote this way back in the day when she was explaining how these uh artists get over by music companies about how everything gets written off as an expense so by the time they get paid everybody else has been paid everybody else is like the the record companies's made money the executives made money and then the artists get money and all the expenses get written off as expenses that the artists have to pay for but you have no control over the expending so

82:21for a random example you can turn up at an airport you've flown from LA to London you you arrive and there's a limousine waiting for you and you don't even question it you're like oh this is the transpo the record company have sent they take you to this ridiculous hotel that the poster than you've ever been in your life you don't think about it cuz the record company's paying for it they throw a huge big party wow how generous our record companies so amazing well look at this incredible party and then they're charging you for it they're charging you for every single thing and yet none of it gets run through you for your approval so you have no power over the economic spending but you get charged back absolutely every single expenditure not only that the salaries of the people that run these companies all that is dependent upon you selling your art that's right and when things

83:06are going well everyone's there going weren't didn't we do an amazing job you know worship me you know literally everyone of the record companies like you you you owe us so thank you and aren't we amazing and is that how they talk to you no but it's an inference like yeah I did that we did this look at how what a great job we did for you and your band and you're like yeah great thank you so much that is wonderful and then the second something goes wrong is you're on your own you guys need to figure this out we're just your record label we can't you know what I mean it's just like it's it's it's difficult to deal with at first but then you get used to it now in the early days did they take a piece of your tour no no they they never have with us but they do now with young bands it's called a 360 deal where they take a piece how they take I don't know it's different for every band

83:52every single band has to negotiate its own St you know what's a normal i' absolutely 15 20% 20% so they would take 20% of all your touring so they would be like if you had a five person band they'd be like the fifth person in the band correct boy the merch your t-shirts holy yeah they take everything it's it's it's pretty weird and pretty Grim right now but it's weird is like what are they I don't understand what they're doing well I don't think they do either I think I think to be honest they're still trying to figure out what their role can be in this new world you know it's difficult for them wow life is tough well it's it's a fascinating time because this digital thing that came along what's really interesting is that you know we saw when the economy fell apart right we saw Banks getting bailed out and we saw these uh music companies going under we

84:52we saw like a lot of issues a lot of collapses and it's all because of these emerging Technologies but these emerging Technologies also on the flipside make it so much easier for people to find out about you yes and slowly I think things will I think it will balance itself out again right I think younger artists are going to get way smarter than we ever were and just go hold on a minute we're not signing these rights to they have to because there's no reason for that today it just doesn't make it that's what was so confusing to me like giving away your merch and your touring like unless they're booking the tour for you unless they're acting as a manager see though how the are they getting a piece that's what I'm saying don't ask me I like that's where an agent gets a piece because they book it they they set it up they they arrange the publicity they do

85:38all that like they they deserve a piece like that's a business deal like it seems like they're just stealing money well it seems a little bit like that I would agree I mean what's what like for in for instance in our business we make 10% of everything we earn so that's basically we know that what we can make a certain amount of money and by the time we've paid everybody we'll take 10% home for all the band members each band member gets 10% so 40% okay 40% of what we make and this is not even taxes you're not even talking about tax we're not talking about tax by the time the taxes decimate you know you were decimated but we are one of the bands who don't have to pay a percentage of our touring and our Merit and we're one of the bands who get a very high um royalty on our records because we only we only give away a tiny tiny percentage of every record to our

86:33Distribution Company so we're one of the lucky ones so we're always thinking well if this is how it is for us how is it for all these other young artists and there's a big thing about Young Artists they have to pretend that they're rich so everybody has to drive around a Ferrari you have to have a $30,000 watch on your wrist you have to walk around like a baller I really reject all that and I think I advise everybody else to reject it to I think we're beginning to to move towards a new world order because the worshiping of money we can't sustain our lives and our world the way things are right now well it it comes from people being poor and wanting to Aspire to be rich and then once you make it you have to sort of put that show on right I mean that's but that's a huge thing in the RAP Community right with rappers it's almost mandatory it's a very rare that someone bucks the trend

87:19where they're not wearing a lot of jewelry and driving around a Bentley although I feel that again that's changing you know but um yeah I've never fallen in love with those kind of Acts you know whereas for coats and limousines and I don't know it's just not my style yeah no it's uh well I mean it's it comes from you know economically deprived people that finally break through of course I understand yeah it's always been but it's it's almost like the fun part of like the rap business like a big part of the fun part I mean how many raps on are about jewelry and diamonds and cars and mansions and you see when I was growing up as we were talking about being the same age earlier on it was really uncool to talk about money right and all the cultural Heroes were were didn't have money and would never talk about money and and actually often it was heartbreaking when you've

88:14discovered they were Rich because they were kind of our working men's Heroes you know I working manhos like go back to Kurt Cobain he wore like Converse Allstars and ripped up jeans planel shirts even further back than that you know like um like John Lenin or somebody like you know yeah all these cats you know but that's what I was sort of indoctrinated in when I was growing up for which I'm actually eternally grateful for I don't I I don't want to be somebody who worships money well it's a foolish thing to worship because you know the the ultimately like what an artist is doing is they're they're trying to express themselves in the most unique way possible and connect with people right you're supposed you're trying to show the world through your eyes you're trying to express yourself and if all you're trying to express is that you want to Stack checks stack what

89:03is it what do they call stack on Deck what what's that Stacks stacks on deck on Stacks on Deck that's like a big thing the rappers those kids today talking about Stacks I would mind the stacks on deck stack on decks just to just to have a little cushion yeah it's always nice to have a cushion right but I feel like these days are long going it is crazy though that you guys only get 10% and you really stop and think about it all and then you pay taxes on the 10% I don't think people understand that no I I I really don't think people understand it but at the same time like nobody wants to hear a musician wh know but I I know many people who live who have very modest jobs who are way wealthier than we are at this point you know yeah but you know that's that's life I never became an artist cuz I wanted to be rich you know right well you would be so much happier being who you are than not

89:53being able to sing and being being wealthy exactly yeah yeah and I also have met a lot of rich people in my time and they're miserable as hell there certainly can be chasing that yeah very isolated and I know I could count on my hands the amount of really rich people I know who live happy Lives who seem like they know what to do with their money and they these people definitely are out there you know they have all they happy marriages Happy Kids balanced kids you know they know when to have fun they know how to work hard you know blah blah blah blah but they're the exception to the rule yeah it's super rare well the pursuit is such a strange Pursuit because you know in often times when you're pursuing wealth you're pursuing wealth at all costs I mean that is the the ultimate goal is the score that you put on the board you I mean that's the Gordon gecko philosophy greed is good

90:40right or greed will protect me I mean I understand it why people feel and and they're not always wrong either where money can protect you from a lot ofes that's our president I mean our president is essentially the greed is good guy I mean he I mean that is who he is I mean that's what he's done I mean he has pursued wealth at all cost but he was also born into wealth a little bit Yeah and I don't think it was a little bit I think it was a substantial amount of money he inherited well he was given $2 million to start his business his first business and he talks about it a small loan small loan of 2 million small loan of $2 million yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean it's he certainly has inherited quite a bit of it no no doubt about it but my point is that his philosophy and like what he's always pursued is extravagance like the the big gold letters on the side of the skyscrapers that's his thing

91:30yeah and it's it's a St it's in a lot of ways it's a dangerous ideology for a country to uh aspire to well because everybody can't yeah can't attain that so what are you then saying to people who have that who will never have that that's kind of what leaves me in great dismay I understand the pursuit of money and economic well-being but yeah I feel like what do we then say to the people that don't have that and never will have that there has to be something else other than the worshiping of money yeah it's a hollow Pursuit it's and it's a Pursuit that's like it's not examined closely enough for for its Hollow if that's a word I was having a conversation once with this friend of mine who is uh he's a pretty radical black guy he's like pretty radical African-American and just very proud of African-American Heritage and he uh he went on this thing about how black

92:26people used to be Kings he's like we were Kings do you understand that I go stop I go can't everybody can't be a king because if you have a bunch of Kings like to be a king is to be a dictator okay that means you're dominating people who aren't Kings that's not a proud thing like you got to stop saying that like you're you're saying it's the wrong thought process but it's the thought process is his in his he hadn't examined it like his in his idea like at one point in time we were Africans we were Kings we were the we were on top and then you know slavery and all this other stuff so his like his thought process was kind of convoluted and by saying we were Kings I was like you don't want to be a King man like nobody should be a King should be zero Kings and you definitely don't want to see we were Kings like we can be Kings again like don't be a king yeah I don't want to be king I don't

93:14want to be a queen well that's a big thing with Fighters like some Fighters call thems King this or King that they like a part of their name you know it's a weird it's so African-American guys I don't know any white guys to call them King oh come on I don't fighter white Fighters talking about you know about that world more than me Bobby King King Bobby green King Mo I know I know like five or six King Kevin sometimes when you feel that you're you're at a disadvantage in us as Society you know words are are powerful and they can the words we tell ourselves are really powerful and perhaps you can manifest a power that you need sometimes we all need it sometimes I know I need it myself you know where you know you think to yourself okay you need to remember what you have done what you've accomplished who you are who your mother is you know I think that there's a lot

94:07to be said I guess for for the Casual use of certain words but you're right I mean in as as we continue to use these words we have to examine their meaning yeah I think I definitely think that's the case I think that the the wealth at all costs is a a foolish Pursuit that that people look at when they don't have the wealth I mean that's when it becomes an attractive thing is the idea that you know you just got to get that paper when you've got the wealth I think the greediest people are the people who are have got shitloads of money that's why we see a lot of these these people with money wanting to cut their have their taxes cut rather than inject some taxes into the community I mean I'd much rather live in a more pleasant Community than sit in my golden Tower by myself with like riots going on on the street you know what I mean I feel like if you make everybody

94:56happier you can still be rich but you're going to have a nicer Garden to walk out into that's a very good attitude it's a very good attitude I think it's a weird game that people play where it becomes just about getting those points up on the board and they become the numbers become meaningless like you don't saying you don't think I have $30 million I can't spend this this is if I live a normal life I'm good they don't think that they think I need 50 million I need an island well there question how much is enough babe yeah you know how much is enough and of course the more you accumulate the more your expenses are and the more you want so it just goes on and on and on and on there's an amazing Radio Lab podcast that's out now about um Bernie maid off oh there's a a show coming up Robert diro playing ber she's still hot as she's so hot she's got to be 80 90 years old now she

95:47is still so beautiful she's so hot it's crazy underutilized actress I'm looking forward to that but sorry I interrup no worries but it's just um the interview him and you get to hear him talk and the um the reporter called him in jail and it's a really fascinating way they have to communicate because they're only allowed to communicate for 15 minutes and then they have to the phone is disconnected and then they have to wait 15 minutes before they can reconnect so he's doing this yeah that's just the rules of the prison so they're doing the I mean he's in there forever he's never getting out of that cage yeah but it's fasinating when you hear him he has zero empathy I mean none it's weird it's weird hearing him talk about these people that he ripped off and finding these like oh they they're fine these people you know they they had money it's like you know they're not

96:38it's no big deal like you're listening to the way this guy is sort of rationalized but he is essentially the poster boy for that greed at all costs because he was just was running a Ponzi scheme he stealing money from people yeah it's funny I was again talking about this with my husband earlier on today cuz we were talking about what is the difference between a Republican and a Democrat like what is essentially the difference cuz I know lots I have very good friends who are Republicans who I respect enormously and and you know they have taught me a lot and they have change the way I view the world and so on so forth but essentially I wonder is it that Democrats are able to utilize their imagination in and and a republican is less imaginative I mean I I don't know I'm I'm musing out loud I have no answers I'm just curious about what drives someone towards the left and

97:29what drives someone towards the right because it's certainly not that one side is good and one side is bad one side is really smart and the other side isn't it's it's nothing to do with that so what is it that drives us towards these embattled positions that are that right now in America seems so acute you know there just seems to be no merging of the two sides and I'd love to know why I wish I knew more about how that all works I think people are very easily influenced I think people are very tribal and I think people it's very easy to influence someone to get them to adopt a predetermined pattern of thinking and if that predetermined pattern of thinking is right-wing or left-wing if you're around those people and you seek social status by committing to a certain ideology you get embedded in it it becomes a part of your thinking becomes a part of your life and then

98:19that is the pattern that you bore you dig deep you dig deep trenches in terms of your psychology you dig deep trenches in your mind that are unwavering and whether they're leftwing or right-wing it becomes very problematic when you have two teams like that we were talking about Holland the other day that Holland has something like 17 different parties the viable parties you know unlike what we have where we have this one two and then we have a few joke parties like the green party that no one takes seriously Libertarians nobody takes seriously they never even come close to winning and when you have one or two and one of them is conservative and one of them is liberal it just automatically people identify with one or the other and they whether it's from upbringing or the community that they're attached to or what have you or life experiences past positive or negative they just

99:09immediately gravitate towards one or the other they dig in and then they they start talking about the left or they start talking about the right and you know you got salon.com and you got Fox News and everybody's lobbing bombs at each other and it's just weird but why have we not seen any break I mean I get that generally speaking like I understand and I totally agree with what you're saying that that generally that is what occurs but surely on both sides of the fence you have freeth thinkers there must be a few more now than I think there's more now than ever before but this is a very weird time in terms of trump and Trump winning because the he's he's sort of engaged the like they they've sort of there's a bunch of people that are not necessar political that are really into being a right- Winger now it's almost like online trolls and people that just like

99:59to be a part of a team and they just like to with people who they call Snowflakes or liberals it's weird it's a weird time I think we're going to get through it I think it's like the Goldwater Republican days it's like I think we we need to have like bad examples that we need to go well let's not do that again and then collectively The Arc of history is long and the and the age of the world is infinite so it is but America is young as and that's part of the problem it's this weird new experiment in self-government that's really only been going on for a few hundred years yeah and it's easy to look at a few hundred years as being a long time but it's really not no it's not especially you guys in Scotland you know you guys have been around forever we've been around forever Braveheart days and yeah but the the thing about the Free Press that's what worries me as a foreigner living in

100:46this country and seeing this this this this sort of stuff that's being spewed about the Free Press really is worrisome it's worrisome when it comes from the president himself that's that's kind of what I mean there's only been two presidents in our history that have actually gone to war with the press and one of them was Richard Nixon I mean this is just a unprecedented time that someone disrespects the idea of the press and and news this is IDE being challenged like I get it like nobody likes getting challenged it doesn't feel very nice when somebody goes no I disagree with you it doesn't feel good but you know aren't we all at the point where we're willing to at least listen and start we should be yeah but it's very scary I think when well he's a dictator in a lot of ways I mean and then he was challenged the other day by CBS they were asking him about Obama

101:33wiretapping and the lie that he made up and he wound up uh well see there's some you say you could say it was a lie but there's some validity to it or there was some surveillance being going on but whether or not it was Obama or whether or not it's standard surveillance that the NSA has been perpetrating for a long time which I think was the case I think it's more that then I think everybody's getting spied on I mean I think that's really what's going on so you can say I'm being spied on I think you'd be correct but you say Obama's spying on me I don't think that's correct yeah so I think he walked out the interview yeah he walked out when they were challenging he doesn't like being challenged he doesn't you know he doesn't like anybody questioning him and he feels like he could just leave he doesn't feel like the Press is important he feels like he's got a strong enough

102:16base and all these people that will just yell out fake news I mean he's made this this sort of meme when he pointed to that CNN guy and said you are fake news yeah like what is this is a scary time yeah very disturbing but I think in some ways that's good and this is why I think I think we need as human beings need resistance we need something to push back against and it helps us it helps us sort of reinvigorate our our our Collective ideas and re reinvigorate knowing now that this is possible we didn't know that this was possible before no we didn't think he was going to win if we did if he did win Jesus Christ we didn't think he was going to win like this and didn't think that he was going to sort of dismantle the EPA and do all these different things he's doing take away the satellites they use for climate I mean there's a lot of that's going on that's very

103:09problematic to Science And scientists and they they're being really frustrated right now so now they know now they know and now we know no I totally agree and I think the the the US press since September 11th have actually the the standard of Journalism has been sliding now for a decade if not longer and now all of a sudden journalists are being held to account and they are having to step up their game again which I think is great for the American people to have enjoy good journalism yeah I think you're right yay so we managed to take something relatively I think it's sad you know what I think it is I think it's the same thing that's kind of happened to the music business I think journalism experienced this new wave of media and information being distributed by anyone whether it's uh breitbard or anyone who just creates a Blog and just starts P pumping out their agenda Huffington Post

104:02salon.com whatever it is they become these Aggregates for news that they feel fits with their agenda the agenda that they would like to promote and push and you know whether it's full leftwing like uh salon.com or full right-wing like Breitbart both of them are problematic and that's where the New York Times has to really Step Up which I think they're trying to I think you're right yeah I think they are so yeah I mean it's it's weird times but weird times create great art no it does well it creates good people too it's good for I think what you were saying earlier on is really true like when people are tested that's when you see them at their best you know so pressure creates diamonds pressure creates diamonds I'm I'm stealing that from it's not mine steal it I don't know it's old term I believe it's good yeah is good it's real it's legit we're getting profound in

104:54here aren't we yeah we GED our loins and we sure did a lot a lot of things happen listen you got to get out of here um so do you yes I do so um where can people find out tour information and garbage is your Twitter handle and does that do you handle all that do you do that stuff for the most part I do I try and I didn't like the feeling of somebody pretending to be me and pick words into my mouth so generally speaking I do take care of the social media that's awesome well it's a it's a bit of a pain but I I farm mine out to China now I might Farm my night what I do is I say just read my tweets and whatever I say like that just say that use woke say woke a lot woke and lit use swears a lot that was lit yeah lit I don't use that one good I was lit thank God it was lit drives me it was lit yeah how about it was fire I haven't heard that one but that's old school that's

105:46Viking terminology yeah oo yeah you said it like you own it my people I do own it I'm 100% Viking 100% 100% I've had a DNA test really that was run by my City of Edinburgh I'm super impressed they fine thank you I I'm sitting here trying to impress you ah you win there it is Rage and Rapture tour Blondie and garbage and all it looks exciting as and uh all this is available online where were can they get all I'm ashamed to say I would imagine it's on the face h on the our website which is garbage.com people can find it people can find it if you can't find it just gole don't show up just can't find it you find August 11 that's my birthday you're going to be in Austin Texas August 11th that's my birthday you're going to be in Austin Texas yeah I'm an August baby as well oh shut the up oh shut the up I am my God crazy so hold on what sign are you Leo I'm a Leo you're such a Leo as oh you're

106:45such a Leo no I'm not I'm a Virgo Shirley Manson you're awesome I really enjy talking to you thank you thank you for being on all right we'll be back soon bye I'm sweaty in here my ear