Cliffy B

00:00Flick music and then, you know, edited. But no, we don't even fucking do that. That makes it feel alive and dirty. It is dirty, dude. It's dirty as fuck. Bam. Oh, is this music? Maybe. What is this called? There's a slight pause. What's the music called? Portal from the Portal soundtrack is still alive. We tried to play this the other day, but. This was fun. This was fun. This was fun. I don't think I'm high enough. I'm making a note here. Huge success. It's hard to overstate my satisfaction. You know you want another hit of this. Don't be scared. Don't be scared, homie. Did you play this? I'm going deeper. How do you like that? I'm going four. This is four. But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run above cake. And the science gets on you. I might be too high to talk. We can just talk to you. Brian. Griffey B. Offering to help out. Offering to help out if I can't talk.

01:07That's a real pal. Problem driving over. We started getting into good subjects. It's like, save it. No way. Save it. That's the problem. You get cool people that come over before the podcast. Then when you try and recycle the exact same conversation, sometimes it doesn't have the exact... Fake as fuck. So, earlier you were talking about hide your kids, hide your wife. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That guy. What happened to him? Crazy. Ladies and gentlemen, joining us on the podcast is the one and only, the real Cliffy B. Yay. Cliff Blazinski? Am I saying it right? Yep. Fresh off the plane. Fresh off the plane. If you don't know Cliffy B, behind us is Gears of War. It's playing on the big screen in Casa de Bryan. And that is one of the masterpieces from Cliffy B. and Cliffy is a game designer for Epic Games and he's been my friend for a long time. We've been friends for how long now? It's like 10 years now. 10 years, bitches.

02:02Joe has a habit of basically going around to a... Fleshlight. Don't touch it? Is this the one you fuck? Is it in a beer can? That's the most used and horribly slutty Fleshlight you've ever, ever had. I thought it was a beer that overflowed the fridge. This is the Fleshlight. This is the sponsor of our podcast. Before we go any further. That's Fleshlight in a can. If you go to... Yeah, and apparently this one is not the most effective one. If you're just looking for something to have sex with, you might as well go with the standard version. The can one is more of a novelty item. It is a, you can get it done if you need to. Look at it, it's dripping with water. You're a disgusting human being. You are wretched. Brian went through a dry spell. He broke up with his girl. It's like, you know, he's got excuses. Oh, dude. Come on, man. Stop it. You're fucking freaking me out. If you go to JoeRogan.net, if you go to JoeRogan.net,

02:47don't wipe it on me, man. That's not cool. That is so not cool. You wiped it on your pillow? Your dog's going to... Oh, man. We've got problems. Anyway, if you go to JoeRogan.net, you enter in... Click the link for the flashlight, you get 15% off. You enter in the code word ROGAN. Is it ROGAN? Yeah. I ask you every week and I always forget. Anyway, with that out of the way, Cliff Wazinski, lead game designer for Gears of War and so many other fucking cool games. Unreal. It's actually a design director now. Design director? Yeah. Is that a different thing? Yeah, I mean, it's basically like if you can prove yourself working on multiple projects, and then you get to try and sprinkle a little bit of the magic fairy dust and all the other projects. We've got Bolt Storm coming out. I don't know if you saw that one. What is it? It's called Bolt Storm. No, what is that? It's kind of like...

03:29You remember Firefly and Serenity, those TV shows Joss Whedon did? It's kind of like that meets Duke Nukem. Serenity, I sort of remember seeing the ads. I don't think I ever watched it. You're like a drunken space pirate who winds up crash landing on a planet and you wind up using a combination of crazy guns in your boot to kind of fight your way off the planet. Oh, wow. It's actually really fucking cool. It's coming out in February. Wow. That sounds pretty fucking cool. It's developed by a bunch of crazy Polish guys, and I've been working on that a bunch. We got our iPhone game dropping this Thursday. Oh, what is it? Yeah, it's called Infinity Blade. It's like punch out with swords. Wow. For the iPhone. And will you be able to play against people? Not yet. First release is just one player, but I mean, the beauty of Apple right now is you have these updates, right? Right.

04:11Remember in the PC days, it used to be patches? Yeah. And you're like, shit, I gotta get a patch. This sucks. This is broken. Now it's updates. And you're like, wow, I'm getting it updated. It's a gift. You know, here's the thing that people don't appreciate. If you came up in the old Windows days, it's seamless. It always works. Man, I started out with Windows 95, and I'm sure you probably started way before that. We're showing our age, dude. Yeah. Windows 95 was the first PC that I ever had, and I remember one time, I somehow or another, I did something. Somehow or another, I installed my operating system onto one of those big drives. What were those big, stupid drives? Remember those things? No, it was like another step above that Zip drive It was a big one It was probably like one megabyte or something stupid It really wasn't that big It was a stone tablet Yeah, it was a giant It was a big fucking brick

05:00And somehow or another That became my startup drive I installed Windows on that So then it took like four days for your computer to boot up? It wouldn't boot up It was just chaos And so I had to bring it into a guy Who was a PC expert Who figured out what the fuck I What retardation I had That guy later went on to the found the Geek Squad And he's a billionaire now Yeah, and meanwhile... Technology's built to decay. It's like money, right? Like, anytime you have something like six months later, there's a new version that comes out. You're like, damn it, I gotta upgrade this. You know what? They say that, but I don't see it that way. I think it's exciting. I don't think of, like, people are like, oh, this sucks because, you know, fucking the new shit's coming out and they build it that way. No, they're just trying to catch up with the ideas. I think technology is moving at such a fucking insane rate.

05:42I got guys at work. They have kids right now. My buddy Lee, he's one of our designers. He pulled his daughter aside, And he's like, look, things have gotten pretty cool in my lifetime. You have absolutely no idea the things you're in for, like where the world is going. Like the world in 10, 15 years is going to be completely unrecognizable. Yeah, I agree. It's like from where we were as kids, like you can't even imagine. Right. Like with nanotechnology and everything, it's unbelievable. And you and I have, I'm sorry, you and I have had this conversation a couple of times. One of the things that you turned me on to is fucking 3D printers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The idea that you're going to be able to have certain elements inside of a machine and you're going to be able to print objects.

06:16We talked about it on the podcast before that you're not going to have to go to stores to buy things no more than you have to go to stores to get a picture. You can download a picture. I already hate going to the store now, dude. Like, you know, you go to big box retail, it takes like 45 minutes to find what you want. Like, okay, so now I use Amazon. But if I can actually have a fabricator in my house that can print out a pen, like fine, right? Because you have the wooden type ones right now that kind of print it out of kind of like shaved material, right? And you can just get them a 3D studio object. And then they have metal ones where it can just build a metal object just layer by layer. And eventually it's going to be everything. They've got to figure out a way to manipulate whatever atoms and molecules to build whatever you want out of it. It's just unbelievable. And it's coming online, man.

06:51It's smart dust we were talking about, right? Yeah. That was another thing that you set me hip to. Well, explain the whole thing for people who don't know what smart dust is. At a very high level because, again, I'm a bit of a Luddite despite what I do for a living. It's this kind of dust that they're able to sprinkle out in the battlefield. Each one has a little bit of a transmitter on it, and they can detect if anybody walks on it, like any sort of footstep patterns on it. Because it essentially creates a little network that then sends back to base. And then what happens is it can also kind of catch in people's shoes and little bits of their clothing. You know, just like little DNA bits you would find with pieces of hair in a crime scene. And they can track whoever actually has that on them, right? Jesus Christ.

07:23You combine where technology is going with the connectivity we have in the world, and it's really scary, right? We talk about the end of privacy as we know it, right? How big are these things? They're tiny. They're the size of a small grain of sand. Motherfucker. And I don't know how many are actually out there yet, right? Think about how much sand you get in your shoes when you go to the beach. Yeah, I get a lot. Could you imagine if all that sand was transmitted? I'm sure we already have this on us, by the way. Yeah, right? By the time we know about it, I've always said about clones. By the time we hear about it, it's been in use for years. Yeah, when they talk about clones, I'm like, by the time they tell you they've cloned a person, the guy telling you is probably a clone.

07:53Yeah, I wonder how many technologies are actively in use by the government that if your average person knew about it would result in total anarchy. It's in Axe Body Spray. I've gotten it. It really is. It's a whole Axe line. Axe Body Spray is only for douchebags. That's why. They want to track douchebag activity. That's the first thing when they step outside of chimps When they do medical studies on chimps Test out mascara on them and shit I notice you're an Old Spice guy there in the bathroom Yeah I'm an Old Spice guy Or whatever's cheapest And it has to be white I need white deodorant I don't need the blue kind That's like Avatar cream Do you do the anti-perspire thing? I don't think that's a good thing for your body I don't wear anti-perspire I know I stink sometimes But I don't mind You know what's important to me? What's important to me is I don't clog my pores up when they're trying to leak out sweat.

08:44What is that about? You're just gumming up your pores so that sweat doesn't come out? You're not just like plugging them. You're using some sort of fucking nasty chemical that jacks your whole system. Yeah, but how many people get armpit cancer? If I got armpit cancer, I'd be like, thank God. I'm the first at something. I'm not scared of my sweat. It doesn't bother me. I'm sweaty all the time. Yeah, but you stink, though. I do, right? Yeah, that's the whole thing. That's the problem with once you start working out a little bit. Because I'm so hairy, because my chest is hairy too, so it all funks in there, and it gets some sort of bacterial growth. You look like Dan Hedaya with your shirt off? Not that bad. I shave it a lot of times too, because otherwise it starts itching, and it gets caught in jujitsu. People pull your chest hair. So you don't wear deodorant, but you do shave your chest.

09:26Yeah, I'm sexy as fuck. Dude, when I shave my chest, man, I look at myself in the mirror. I'm like, damn. We're ready for the French Riviera, Joe. I don't shave my legs, though. I have no excuse to shave my legs. I know some dudes who do. Swimmers and bicycle guys. Gets you out of submissions easier. Jiu-jitsu guys, mostly. You're still hardcore into that? Yeah, yeah, it's fun. What do you think of this, was it Krav Maga? Krav Maga. Krav Maga, the Israeli fighting technique? Well, I think if you wanted to just learn it for self-defense, it's a good system. Because what they do is they incorporate a lot of the best techniques in ground fighting. And they incorporate a lot of the best techniques in stand-up. And for someone just looking to defend themselves, it gives you a pretty comprehensive view of martial arts in general. You look it up on YouTube, man.

10:05It's like half the videos are like how to get out of a gun situation, and half of them are like legit guys who are fast. The other half would wind up dead. Yeah, that's true. But you know what? At least you have a chance. It's like if you have an idea of what to do and someone is trying to get you with a gun, most likely they're going to fucking shoot you, right? But at least you have some sort of an idea if an opportunity presents itself. Yeah, take control of it or not, right? Yeah. I mean like that's what the whole idea of martial arts is about. It's not that you're going to be able to beat people up or you're going to be able to fight. It's like at least you're going to know what's happening. because the scariest thing about any sort of an altercation is when you don't know how to defend yourself. You don't know what to do. And I've seen guys.

10:41I saw this guy get knocked the fuck out once, and it was crazy. You're talking about at a bar? Yeah, it was a bar. And they got into a fight, and as they got into a fight, one guy just went into a full panic and was just swinging his hands. He wasn't even making fists. Like a girl? Yes, yes. Full panic. I thought it. Swinging his hands, and a car got in front of me, and as the car got in front of me, because people were trying to get out of this parking lot while this fight was going on, and as the car got in front of me, as the car passed, he was out cold on the ground. Flattened out. Dude, I don't know, man. There was a look in his eyes of complete, total panic. He had no idea what to do. He was locked into this situation. It was on sunset. You understand. I mean, you doing what you do with MMA and everything and being involved in the scene. When I went to my first MMA fight, the one in Charlotte, right?

11:31Sitting there watching UFC, and I'm like, I've seen it on at bars, and I'm like, okay, this is cool. And seeing it in person, getting a huge amount of respect for the fighters and how tremendous athletes these guys are, right? But whenever I'm living in Raleigh and seeing bar fights, which break out on a regular basis, they're not as bad as Boston, by the way. We need to talk about Boston. That's the land of savages. 12.30 hits, and it's the witching hour. There's too many ugly, angry women, and dudes are pissed. The sea hags, man. We'll get there. But whenever I see a fight in real life, dude, unless it's two guys who are scrappers, man, You see one guy picks a fight with this guy who doesn't know what he's doing. I think it's really ugly shit, man. You see somebody actually legitimately get hit and beaten up like that before the staff can get to him.

12:09It's pretty fucked up when someone knows how to fight and the other person doesn't. I try to make friends with the biggest motherfuckers in town. That's good. Hide behind people, man. Notice when the shit's about to hit the fan and know where the door is. Spidey sets. That's all important. You can smell it, man. Yeah, and the thing about someone who does train in martial arts, most of the time you don't want to fight because it's not the same thing anymore. It's like a good bouncer, you know, to diffuse the situation, right? You're not looking to crack skulls. Well, it's not just that. It's like you kind of, it's not attractive. You know, for some guys, the idea of beating someone's ass is like attractive. But when you do martial arts all the time, it's not attractive at all. It doesn't seem like a thing to do. It seems like, you know, what you want to do is avoid all that. This is stupid.

12:44This could get, you can get hurt. Like it's, you don't have any need to prove yourself physically where a lot of people do. And unfortunately, sometimes they just try to bluff, you know, and they get called out on it and they don't know what to do. They're already at step nine. They don't know how they got there because they're drunk. and then they say, why? And they go to take a swing and the horror upon horrors is when you throw a punch at a guy and he moves like he actually knows how to fight and he's sober, then you're fucked. Because then you're drunk and you did a douchebag thing and some guy's going to light you up. Next thing you know, you're on the side of the street bleeding, right? From my experience, there's always going to be assholes that do martial arts. There's assholes that do everything. But it's a much, much smaller number. So the odds of someone who wants to fight

13:24actually being a martial artist, Most of the time, they're not. It's a big misconception. Like, these guys that are fighting, like, George St. Pierre, he's, like, one of the nicest fucking guys you're ever going to meet. And even Josh Koscheck, the guy who's fighting him this weekend, fucking great guy. If you're not fighting him, I mean, he likes to talk a lot of shit and likes to, like, get inside guys' heads. But a lot of that's pre-fight hype. Like, outside of that, he's a very nice guy. I see a lot of those guys beat the shit out of each other, and then they just, at the end, they're just kind of like, what's this guy? Because it's a mutually kind of assumed destruction, right? They're like, okay, I'm going into this. It's my profession, right? It's that. And some guys get real caught up in the shit talking. And some guys, they drop it as soon as the fight's over.

13:58And you see them, they'll go out and have beers and shit. It's like, look, there's a certain amount of stress involved. This person's your target. There's going to be some animosity. But for the most part, they resolve it way better than boxers do. Boxers seem to be, I don't know what it is, but there's more douchebags in the boxing community. I'm not exactly sure what that's all about. I remember MMA when it was like five, eight years ago, and it was considered that niche thing. that's always the way with any sort of new sport right you look at snowboarding and yeah that was all the skiers looked down i'm like that's a joke that's never going to be big and now snowboarding is freaking huge right it happens with so many different sports right well when i was first involved in mma uh it was almost like telling people that i was involved in porn really like

14:37yeah because i was working on news radio right and uh and by the way i'm not the only one who said this dana white said the exact same thing he said the exact he had the exact same feeling you feel like you're doing something sleazy i used to feel like video games dude no no way dude when i I was like, okay, this is my story. I was on news radio, and I started doing the backstage interview for the UFC. And this was 1997. So this was like we were in Augusta, Georgia, and Dothan, Alabama, and places like that. And I would tell them that I was off to go do commentary for cage fighting. And they would look at me like, what the fuck is wrong with you? This is terrible for your career. You want people to know that you're commentating on cage fighting? It was almost like I was doing Girls Gone Wild or something.

15:15The video game analogy, though, I mean, it's not a one-to-one, but at the same time, it was one of those situations like 10, 15 years ago was like, you want to do that? And it's like, oh, that's cute. You know, my little son plays that in the basement, right? And now it's one of those things you look at everything from the 360 to the Wii to the Natal. Oh, I see what you're saying. But it doesn't have a negative connotation, does it? Not anymore. It used to? Now it's the coolest fucking job ever. But then it was used to it was more of a frivolous connotation, not a negative. Yeah, no, it wasn't negative. It was more of a dismissive. Okay, you run along a little Billy with your little video games thing because he used to play Pong, right? Well, it's a difference of a $60 day one versus $10, right? I mean, it takes not as many people to do it, right?

15:57I mean, they're getting so good at building up the hype for these midnight launches for all this, right? Yeah. I mean, the big issue right now is how much of that money you think the actual developers are seeing. I don't know. Not necessarily a lot. There's a lot of controversy about Call of Duty. I don't know if you heard the whole thing. No, please tell me. So basically, the Call of Duty guys originally were these guys from Infinity Ward. And Jason and Vince, real good guys. And they had originally built this brand after working on Medal of Honor. because they built up Medal of Honor, and then that didn't work out for a number of reasons. You can look all this up. They built the Call of Duty brand up, and then basically Modern Warfare hit, made a ton of money. They basically didn't see much of it, and then they were like, screw you, we're going to go do our old thing.

16:33It's a very controversial thing with a lot of lawsuits and everything like that. I stand on the side generally of the developers because I believe in developers' rights. I believe paying people what they're worth, and when you create a multi-million dollar to potentially billion dollar brand, you deserve to be paid for it, right? So the issue is that the people that finance it are getting the majority of the money? The large studio Activision, basically, from what I can tell, again, this is secondhand knowledge, the guys basically did not feel that they were paid what they were worth for. Do they have contracts? Once your studio is purchased and you're part of a larger conglomerate, your game can make a billion dollars and they can just give your studio half a million and be like, fine, we own you, whatever. Really? Yeah.

17:11And I don't know what the numbers are, but you're increasingly seeing in the video game industry people getting a lot of representation, people getting agents, people getting proper accountants and lawyers, and they're actually negotiating this sort of thing. So people like Warren Spector, who created Deus Ex, people like Ken Levine, who created Bioshock, they've got deals now, and they're making amazing games, and they're going to make sure that they and their staff are taken good care of, right? I remember back in the day when John Romero, is that who it was, broke off from id Software, and that was like the first drama in the game community. And this guy John Romero Who's the game designer Splits from this guy John Carmack Who is this fucking Super genius From another planet Wizard guy He's one There's very few dudes When I'm around them I get intimidated Like when I'm talking To John Carmack I'm like

17:56Why am I even talking Why am I even bothering Talking What do I have to say To this guy He's a fucking alien Yeah Same sort of thing This whole like One in a billion Type of personality Super genius alien dudes Right Like it's amazing On another level Than all of us And Carmack would sit In front of the computer for people who don't know who he is, 16 hours a day, code. And then he would go make rockets. He's a rocket scientist in his spare time. And he was involved in the X Prize. He was trying to win the X Prize. Yeah, that's his hobby. And when he wasn't doing that, he was turbocharging Ferraris, building turbochargers for Ferraris. That's a big no-no, by the way. It's like buying a Mona Lisa and then just painting over it. I guess, but he just doesn't have no reverence for any objects. He's like, fuck you. He's like, hey, I'm going to upgrade this. He's an alien.

18:39Well, the rumor was that after he started doing that, that Ferrari kind of was like, dude, come on. You're undermining all of our engineers here. We'll give you new Ferraris. Stop fucking with our shit. He was making these 12,000 horsepower Ferraris that run on fucking nuclear energy. It's a good way to die. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Well, he apparently was a nutty thrill seeker. He used to really like to go really fast, which I would not expect. He left id Software, the guys at Doodoo and Quake. Right. So this John Romero guy, to get back to the story, this John Romero guy was like the Playboy character. He was like drove around Lamborghinis. He's a rock star. And then they left. And what was that crazy game that they came out with afterwards? They did Anachronox and Dicatana. Dicatana, that was the one. So he leaves, and it was like sort of a cult of personality thing. Oh, yeah.

19:22And the big debate was who was the most important? Is it the game designers, the guy with the vision, or is it the coder? And how easy is it to actually design the games? The game designer is often the chaos, and the programmer or producer is usually the order. Yeah. Right? It's a combination of those two personalities. It's like saying what's the best part of the band. Is it the singers? Is it the drummers? And if you get the singer who can be on stage and be charismatic, you get David Lee Roth, but you don't have Eddie Van Halen backing him up. Right, right, right. Then you don't have the magic, right? Yeah. Perfect example. The checks and balances, right? He wasn't Van Halen on his own. Yeah. On his own, he was just David Lee Roth. Well, he's gone on and he's doing some cool stuff now, man. He's a good guy. Oh, he's great. He's a great guy. I've met him. I met him at the comedy store.

19:58It was one of the fucking coolest celebrity meetings I've ever had ever. But my point was that, you know, as a group You know, those guys created Some pretty fucking dope games Doom, you know, Doom they created as a group And the idea was that it was all this guy's So this guy leaves and he gets this giant Fucking deal, this John Romero guy Did you visit the Dallas office? No, but I heard it was insane I heard it was like the top floor With unbelievable views Just stupid, crazy overhead, right? This is legendary gaming history you're talking about Yeah, yeah, yeah, well this is how much of a dork I am About this shit and he gets crazy, crazy money and then they're just lazy as fuck and they're just barely working, man. This game takes forever to come out. It comes out all wonky and shit and you can walk through walls. That's an abbreviated version, man. But the thing is, he assembled a team so fucking fast

20:46and tried to be so ambitious so quick and that was with Eidos' money. This is basically Lara Croft Tomb Raider paying for this, right? And so once you build a team that quickly, you can't just overnight assemble a bunch of people like in Hollywood and have magic. Yeah. And so half, not half, but a good percentage of the guys I work with, my fucking art director, who's this amazingly talented, awesome guy, bled out of the eyeballs to ship Daikatana. And he went to work for Romero because he thought Romero was a cool guy. And he still tells me stories about having panic attacks working in Dallas and how he almost killed himself, dude. Jesus Christ. And so I always look at that. People don't realize how much you guys work. Dude, it's like you look around a room, right? Every little bit, somebody has to work and build every last little bit of it.

21:23We visited you and you were talking about when crunch time comes and it's like right at the end and everybody's like basically sleeping at the office. Yeah. That's all you do is you work all day. It's gotten better than that. We've figured out how to make games better now. Like you get a producer who knows his shit and it's kind of like, okay, we're not just going to all work really hard and hope it turns out great. Right. We're going to actually have a plan, right? So if you say when it's done, that doesn't mean you really know what game you're building. Right. But at the same time, you need to have a little bit of wiggle room because it's not a definable process. You're panning for gold. It's comedy. You know, like comedy you iterate, right? It's so comprehensive, though. I mean, for people who don't understand what goes into making a game, just the amount of effort.

22:00I remember we were exhausted leaving thinking about the hours that you guys work. I remember we were talking about it, remember? But, dude, you can't burn through people that much, right? You can maybe get away with a few crunches like that. So we're at the point where we'll do maybe 10 hours a day, 12 tops, five days a week, tops, and then we call it. We're like, dude, if we just can't do it, it's not worth burning. That's smart. You don't see a lot of people in the industry who are over 40, dude. Yeah. They just get fried, right? Yeah, that's interesting. I'll tell you about that Daikatana thing, though. Even though it was a long time, it was a fun game to play, man. Deathmatch was fun on it. They had the cool rocket. There was a crazy, weird rocket launcher. They had a shotgun that had 18 barrels or something like that. Yeah, they had some cool shit.

22:40Romero was supposedly into first-person shooters and Deathmatch. It was him and Carmack and that whole crew that just birthed the genre. It's one of the lessons I tell the guys. If you have a new camera angle, you can create a whole new genre. The first Quake was a fucking masterpiece for Deathmatch. Yeah, Brian says you're still hung up on it. Well, I'm still hung up on all games, but not really Quake 2. Quake 2 never really got me, but Quake 1, dude. The only thing that got me about Quake 2 is the railgun. That was very key. That's when accuracy became very important in Deathmatches. So was your problem the fact with Quake 2 that actually balanced the weapons? No, no. I just didn't like the way it felt. It just didn't feel as good. It wasn't as fast-paced. It was a little slower. Whereas Quake 1, you could move much quicker. It was much more chaotic. He plays the numbers game. They slowed it down.

23:24It has to be 0.7 seconds less. No, it's just my – what it is is that I just really love Deathmatch. That's what I really love. That's all I play in Call of Duty. Team Deathmatch. Anytime it comes up with any sort of domination or CTF, I'm like, I just want to shoot people. How do you feel about those things that hook up to a console and give you a mouse and a keyboard? Are those good? I mean, they're cool and all, but the thing about Halo is Halo – Mrs. Cliffy B says no. They built the game of Halo for that dual stick controller. and if you're a PC guy who's used to that level of accuracy it feels like you're like drunkenly using like a rubber hose to steer your car. But if you build a game for it it can work and that's what Halo did. Gold and I did it before that but you look at Halo they basically introduced a genre that was new to a whole generation of kids. I have this whole 10 year rule

24:07where like the kids who played Halo most of them many of them didn't play a lot of Quake because they were like wait what is this new Xbox thing I'm going to play this and then they become hooked. It's like we talk about vampires you know on the way over it's like okay well all these kids who love twilight don't know what buffy the vampire slayer is right so sad so but if you wait 10 years right your kid who liked buffy the vampire slayer or your person who likes uh twilight they were what like you know six when buffy came out now they're 16 right and so they didn't know about that so you can basically wait every 10 years and find something that was old and make it new and then if you can introduce it with new technology you might be good to go yeah um for people who don't know what we're talking about those uh hand controllers the consoles when you have a console

24:50you have like an xbox or playstation what they are this most people are listening on itunes this ain't helping okay he's holding one up but they have a bunch of buttons on it and with pcs when you play with a computer when you play online especially you're what you're using is a keyboard and the mouse and what it is is for whatever reason the keyboard and the mouse you can just control it better you're far more accurate you're accurate with the keyboard as far as your movement having four very specific buttons right where your fingers are, and you're much more accurate with your hand as far as aiming. And that's where it came into play with games like Quake. It's like aim, especially when the railgun came about. Aim became very, very important. So how do they optimize these games for these controllers? Do they have auto-aim or something? Where you get close, you're in the neighborhood of it,

25:34and it just locks on? A little bit of auto-aim, man. One of the things that Halo did was they kind of introduced this idea of friction and adhesion. so what you do is when you move your console kind of stick over the enemy, the game actually slows down a little bit. It's like, oh, you want to hit them, don't you? And then it provides a little bit of that kind of assistance, right? That would drive me crazy. A whole generation loves it right now. Those fucks, those lazy cunts. That's what it is. They don't even want to aim, these fucking kids today. These self-righteous, entitled children. Back when we were kids, we had a fucking aim. It was a pixel hunt, dude. That's what it was, right? Yeah. Your crosshair was this one pixel, and you had to shoot that guy's itty-bitty, you had across the map, except for in Quake 1 where you had to just hit them with a rocket launcher that had a radius of half a mile.

26:14Well, that was the cool thing about Quake 2 is a lot of people would put their own crosshairs in. They would build their own crosshairs. But Quake 3, they came out of the box with a bunch of cool ones and you'd figure out what was the best for you. I would have different ones for the railgun, different ones for the rocket launcher. It's all customization. It's insanity is what it is. It's a constant subject on this fucking site. Dude, trust me though. You have a whole generation of millions and millions of kids that are perfectly fine with the two sticks. Yeah, they're going to grow up pussies We are entering What I like to say We're entering into the feedbackless generation, right? Those kids growing up with those consoles This is the last The fall of Rome This is when they were getting drunk And thrown up And trying to get more food in Dude That's what it is Gluttony Can't even fucking aim Joe, look at touch screens

26:54Look at Kinect We're getting to a point Where people don't need buttons right now Yeah, I hear you, right? Which scares me Is that what's going to happen? Is it going to be like aiming with your fingers and shit? Like pointing where you want to go? That might be Dude, the key is always Microsoft thing is, right? Isn't it? What is that called? Connect, man. You don't need a controller. And you stand in front of it and move around, I guess? Have you heard much about this? Yeah, not that much. This is going to trip you out. It's a camera that can track your body movements without anything on you. You've seen the motion capture setups, right? The Tiger Woods setup where he wears a spandex and all that. This is a very light version of that where you just stand in front of the TV and it can procedurally form your skeleton and then track that. So there's a dance game, Dance Central, which is a ton of fun.

27:37I was playing it with my niece over the holidays. You literally just dance right in front of it. It tracks your movement. It can judge your score. Here's where it gets weird. There's a VO, like a microphone on it, so it can do voice recognition, and it's got facial recognition on it. So once you do the facial recognition thing, which makes you stay out of the room to kind of build an aggregate of your face, you then can just walk in the room and it goes, why, hello, Cliff. Welcome back. Oh, Jesus fucking Christ. I smoke too much weed for that, dude. I don't want my computer talking to me. You know what I want to see? I want to see IMAX movies, like screens, like where you walk in and you're all sitting there in the video game. So there's like 500 people all joining in, playing this huge video game in front of you. I told you about Hefron, right? I told you about Hefron doing stand-up. Yeah. What's that?

28:21My friend John Hefron has been doing these conference stand-up things where they're in front of it. Some new technology where they get him in a room and he's got all these screens in front of him. And they see him and he sees them live and he does stand-up. really it's like he's doing a desk in front of like all these monitors so he gets to see the reaction like that yeah yes two way video so he's watching their reaction they're watching him live it's like he's performing on stage but he's nowhere near them which is the shit I would love that if I could do shows from my house and not have to travel all the time that would be awesome so I mean you can judge people's reactions right they're right there yeah talking about iteration right and how much we pan for gold and we try and find fun and we fail a bunch before we figure out what it is I mean I talk about Jerry Seinfeld's comedian and how much comedy they go to

29:03the little dive bars and they do a surprise appearance and they just bomb and then they figure out okay this joke worked that one didn't work this one did right it's the same we find it's the same thing with game development i don't people in the restaurant business that try new menus they figure out what works and doesn't it's all iteration nobody very few people ever actually nail it right the first time right fail early and fell off in which i found is the key to so many instances of success in life right well you fail and then you find out what you don't like about what failed you know and that's how you learn you know you have to learn what you do and don't like And when you're doing something complicated, there's a lot of failure involved, for sure. Dude, keyboard and a mouse, man. It's still relevant, but the market's split, man, between iPhone, between DS, between consoles, PC.

29:41I think no controller is very important. I think making it so you could just sit there and do that. What I don't like, though, is when a lot of times I just want to sit back and play a video game in bed or on the couch. You don't want to have to get up and run around. I want to be like, come on. I'm just trying to run through the forest. I don't... You don't want to, like, sweat. You just want to lay back and just sit there with your controller and just play. Yeah. Right. You don't want to have to jump around like an idiot, right? That's one of the cool things. If I could sit here and go like this, though, like Tron style and just move my hands, like, dude, dude, I'm going through here. Well, they're working on menu-type stuff like Minority Report, where you're going to be able to just kind of manipulate it like that. So you don't have to, like...

30:14There's a certain percentage of person, a lot of them out there, especially girls, if you hand them a current console controller, they act like you handed them a flaming bag of dog shit. Really? Like, really? I'm supposed to use this for what? I don't want to play this. Granted, there are some exceptions, but most people, parents... Who are you hanging out with, Cliffy B? That's your old girl voice. That sounds annoying. That's your old girl voice. That's your girl. I've learned that by watching you, Joe. Whatever. That's your Becky voice. Oh, my God. Yeah, exactly. He's such an asshole. He just plays games. We have this whole theory that there's a certain type of girl that somehow gets that voice preloaded into her with that bubble writing. I think they just imitate everybody else. It's like, why would anybody have that fucking horrible Boston accent? Yeah.

30:53Why? Because a bunch of other people have it and they just imitate it. I still miss it, though, dude. Do you really? How dare you? Dude, I had a great time growing up. I miss it as far as dudes. You don't like the girls, are they? No. Jesus Christ. Some of the most horrendous experiences of my life came out of a female Boston accent. Let's go to the pack and get some beer. It just gets too cold. Yeah, we had this experience. A buddy of ours was in Boston and he hooked up with some chick and while they're fooling around, she goes, You're gonna tell your friends What a monster sound And she was just hideous And he's just fucking Swinging it in I got a buddy of mine He dated a girl from Long Island And they woke up the next morning And he asked her What she wanted for breakfast And she went Count Chocula Dude So I took Lauren back To see my hometown Right Like I had to go back home What town did you grow up in?

31:45North Andover North Andover Yeah I mean it's You know totally like Nice suburbs right Like really Like we went up in the fall Saw all the foliage Like the local farm stand not robbed as a kid is like this now like national. What month was this? It was October. That's good. October's good. That's right before it gets horrible. Horrible. Horrible. And I'm sitting there and there's something about certain sections of the Northeast that just kind of take something out of you. I don't know if it's the diet or the weather, but there's a certain tiredness that kind of creeps in, man. I don't know what it is. It's the weather. Lack of vitamin D. That too. Lack of vitamin D, but there's something about the weather. Too much comfort Italian food? You're not supposed to get that cold. Yeah. It's not supposed to be that cold for that long where it just sucks.

32:23Well, you just assume that every year for four months it's going to suck to be outside. Yeah. For four months. But you grew up with it, right? Yeah. I grew up – and I had to give my – I do a paper route as a kid, right? Me too. And they deliver it. And they deliver it in like – they deliver the papers in November. The snow would hit, and I'd get up at 10 a.m. to do my paper route, and it would all be plowed over, and my papers aren't there. I'm like, I guess they didn't deliver. Am I calling for a refill? sometime around late March, early April that would thaw out and I would find the papers for March, like a time capsule. And I'm sitting here going, is this how it is? Because my dad, I love him dearly, but he was super cheap about the heat and he'd like at night he'd turn it all off and like in the Monday morning getting up and going to school. Oh, it's the worst. And you're like getting into that shower,

33:02man. Oh, we used to have to use a hair dryer to unclog the pipes. Oh, yeah. The pipes would freeze. Yep. So my dad had like this opening underneath the floor in the basement and he would have to lift up this opening and he'd be sitting there with a fucking hairdryer before anybody could take a shower. It was brutality. It was brutality. My dad decided one year he was going to buy a coal stove that was going to take care of all this, right? So he gets it installed and literally one fall he has two tons of coal put in the basement, right? And we literally have to go down there with a hopper and bring it up there and you have to hold your breath otherwise you get black lung basically. And we come up and this thing heated like two square feet of the whole house. So if you wanted to stay warm you stayed in the living room and just hovered right in front of that thing. It was the worst, man.

33:45Yeah, I got four older brothers, man, growing up with that in one house. And it was a decent-sized house, but... What's that? I'm sorry. I had central air. You're spoiled. How old are you? What are you, like 24? What the fuck is wrong with you, man? 36. Oh, no shit, huh? One of the houses I looked at in Colorado had one of those wood heating stoves in the middle of the living room. And they were talking about how economical it is to use this wood heating stove to keep the house warm. I'm like, what are you fucking talking about, Hooker? I got kids And you got a giant Red hot ball of metal In the center of the living room That they're just supposed to avoid Dude I used to That's the stupidest shit I've ever heard in my life I was a kid I used to take prongs With the hot coals And take them outside Like from the living room Like through the hallway And go into the snow And like write my name With the blazing hot coal

34:27Like how did I not like Drop this on my foot And burn myself right I don't know But in 2010 They should eliminate That stupid shit And get a goddamn heater Yeah When you got a fucking giant Cast iron fucking structure Where I grew up In the middle of the living room Where I grew up that was not common at all, what you guys are talking about. Really? I didn't know anybody that had that. Well, Columbus gets pretty cold, though, man. Doesn't it get cold? Growing up, they didn't have central heat or air. They were like, dude, what is this like? The technology, I guess, of heating and cooling in Ohio was better than where you guys grew up. Well, no. Columbus doesn't get death cold, though, right? What is winter? What is a terrible January day? It got negative 10. Okay, that's death cold. That's the real shit. It gets cold. So, yeah, I grew up with four brothers, right? And we had to share a lot of shit.

35:08and so like we'd have to share towels in the bathroom we only had a certain amount we'd all have to go in line and take showers right and i'm sitting there one day and i get out of the shower after my older brother and i take the towel and i'm kind of wipe my face and it's a light colored towel oh no and i realized the towel smells like ass oh jesus christ and i pull away and i'm telling the story to his daughter recently she's like a little eight-year-old kid i'm talking about her dad and i look at the towel and i realize there's brown streaks in the towel oh my god and i'm Explaining to his daughter that this is a double fail because not only did he not remember to wash his ass, he forgot to wipe. And I asked my niece, I'm like, what's the lesson out of the story? And she says, buy dark towels. I'm like, no, you're doing it wrong. How old is she? She's eight. That's brilliant.

35:53I'm like, you're doing it wrong. She should follow that kid. Keep an eye on her. She's a wizard. Brown and red towels would be the ideal match for me. I would never have thought of that in a million years. Have you seen that? That's like a great line. That kid's a genius. It's a true story, dude. It's a great line. They have that towel you can buy online that's like one half is brown, one half is white, and it says face and ass. Right. It's like a split towel. I have it in my bathroom. Wow. It's a good reminder. I would want a brown towel that looked like a Dexter splatter of blood on it. You know, that was the design of the towel. I'm sure you could buy that. You can actually buy Dexter's shirt to kill. Oh, yeah. Yeah, the little thermal he wears, yeah. Did you give up on Dexter, Joe? Yes, I gave up on it. Mrs. Rogan's really into it, though, so I'm going to have to try it again.

36:34Dude, you should see this season. Even though I didn't like John Lithgow. I quit because of John Lithgow's shitty rear naked choke. John Lithgow gets some woman in the bathtub. That was your – Gave her the fucking weakest bitch-ass rear naked choke I've ever seen in my life. I'm like, no, that's not going to kill anybody, stupid. That's like me stopping watching a TV show because they're holding the controller wrong. People, when you try to kill people, man, they fight. They fight back. They claw at you. They kick. They try hard. They don't just lay in the tub and go, uh-huh. while you're choking him. Your little fucking old man arms. That guy ain't even put any pressure on that thing. I know what he's doing. It was amazing that season. Dude, and you know Peter Weller's on this season? Have you seen him lately? No. He looks like the most... I didn't even recognize him. Who's that again? Who's Peter Weller?

37:13Robocop. Robocop. Yeah. He's got this voice. He's kind of going like, you started this motherfucker. You're going to finish this and drop it. And you're just like, oh my God, dude. He looks like this sleazy, amazing Miami PD guy. He looks great. Dude, it's still a good show in spite of the bad chokeholds. Okay. Well, I'll give it a second chance. Did you watch Walking Dead? No, but I've heard that's pretty awesome, too. The end was a little eh. Don't say that. Then I got nothing to look forward to. Dude, Frank Darabont fired the entire writing staff. Whoa. Yeah. He's the guy who did Shawshank Redemption Green Mile, right? Wow. Fired the whole staff. It's hard to find fucking good writers that want to write your shit. Yeah. You know? Good writers want to write their own shit. Yeah. Well, I've had people approach me, and they're like, hey, we're doing this new IP, and we want Epic to make the game.

37:54I'm like, dude, we do our own stuff, man. We could either create our own thing like Gears, or we could do the Star Trek the movie video game. What do you think is going to happen, right? We're not going to worry about that. Uninspiring. Nobody gives a fuck about those stupid movie video games. There's the occasional exception that's a good one, but it's hard to make. Like Superman from the Nintendo 64. Get the fuck out of here. Class-ass game ever. E.T. for Atari. Two of my favorites. You know that's buried in a desert, right? Oh, yeah. That's one of the craziest stories. It's not an urban legend. Do you know about that story? No. It was the E.T. the video game, right? Atari 2600 and they basically assumed it would sell millions of copies and it sold like five. Oh my God. They decided to bury it in the New Mexico desert and it actually is still out there. They buried it. Buried it. Why did they bury it?

38:36Because I don't know. I guess they couldn't find somebody. It's cheaper than whatever disposal. The economics. Whoa. There's this huge landfill filled with that game. How many of them? I don't actually know. You can look it up on Wikipedia. What's the urban legend though? Well, people think it's an urban legend but it's actually true. No, but what is the number in the urban legend? It's like millions, millions. Because they hired some programmer and how to make the game over the course of a month. Like, oh, it's the license. We can print it. We'll make money, right? Like, no, you actually have to make a good game. Like, the new Call of Duty was done by the second team, which we previously had made a very solid one a couple years ago, and it had made one a few years ago that wasn't as good. But they have really stepped it up, this new one. Like, I didn't even play the campaign, man. Did you play it much?

39:13No, I've never played it. You should give it a go, man. I know you have dual analog fear. Can't do it. You have to try. You have to at least give in some time. What's going to happen when all the shooters are like motion controls? I guess I'll play pool. Imagine going like this and playing pool. You don't even need a pool table. No, no, no. You need a pool table, bro. That's the whole game. The whole game is feeling. What if you didn't need a pool table? You got to feel the ball. Contact the cue. It's in your arm. You got to feel the ball. It's all on how much effort you put into your stroke, how relaxed your grip is. Keep your shit together. Wait till you see the new Tron. Don't stab at it. You got to stroke that ball, son. You'll change the mind. You don't understand. You don't understand. You'll see Tron and you'll change your mind. You and I like some different things, all right?

39:52How do you think the new Tron's going to do it? different things. I don't know. It's Disney, so... It cost him $150 million, dude. It's a movie? $150 million? Do you know the guy who directed it is the guy who did the first Gears commercial, the Mad World one? Oh, really? Yeah, Joe Kaczynski. That fucking commercial was awesome. That was awesome. Dude, I remember when that commercial was coming out before Gears came out, I saw it on TV and I went, whoa. Like, they just nailed it. That song is the perfect song, too. That song was actually one of my favorite songs when I was going through a really tough time. Throw that up on YouTube, bro. Yeah. Brian will pull it up. That was one of my, like, I was going through a really tough time at that point. They actually didn't even know about that song. Dude, why don't you just call me? I would have snapped you out of it. That's ridiculous.

40:30Don't listen to that kind of music when you're in that kind of mood. That movie, that's a good song for a good mood to go, wow, that's kind of a cool song. The last thing you want is one depressing-ass fucking song when you're in a shit mood. Remember, it's a remake of that Tears for Fears song, right? Is that what it is? Yeah, it was a remake of something. I found it kind of funny. I found it kind of sad. And then they just did, Gary Jules redid it. It was like number one in the UK over the course of the holidays when it came out. And then it had another like rebump. That commercial put that song back to the top of iTunes for like a month. That game was the last game that I played with on a console. Was it called Last Day? You didn't play Gears 2, dude? No. I played Gears 1. I fucking loved the way it looked. I loved everything about it. But that fucking thing was driving me crazy.

41:11Trying to move around and look with this stupid controller. And I'm like, why does this have a mouse and keyboard? It would be so much easier. If I had a mouse keyboard I'd be kicking some fucking ass up In this bitch Oh Jesus, it's gay already Get this away from me Don't be a gaming dinosaur I am, I'm a dude The second one they did was called Last Day That was for Gears 2 You can zoom in Right trigger shoot Can you adjust the sensitivity in the mouse? Yeah It looks fucking spectacular You're missing out on a lot of gaming I'm missing out on a lot of things, man. I'm not skydiving. I'm not climbing rocks. Yeah. I skydived once. That was all I needed to do. Brian's got a great story about skydiving. No, I don't. His dad. Were you tandem? He said it a couple of times, but it's an interesting story. I'll tell it because he's told it twice.

42:01His father had a person at work that was always saying, you should go skydiving with me. I go skydiving. I love it. She used to go all the time. Well, she fucking died. Really? She fell out of a plane and her shit didn't work. And her second shit caught up in her first shit that didn't work. and she fucking went screaming to the ground from 10,000 feet in the sky and slammed into the earth, ending her time here. Fuck that noise. I'm not that afraid of death. I'm afraid of the screaming before it. Knowing the plane's going down. Four minutes. Not even four minutes. How much time does it take? Terminal velocity, 10,000 feet. I'm sure you could just figure it out. It's 180 miles an hour. Three minutes? Three minutes of terror. Look up Gears of War Mad World on YouTube. That's what it was. Nobody, it seems like a lot of people. Somebody's got to have it on YouTube.

42:49It's like, you can just assume that if something's out there, it's on YouTube now, right? But dude, if you ever actually want to try and find somebody's official music video, good fucking luck. Yeah. Because what people do is they upload a video where it's like, hey, here's what I think of Nicki Minaj's new song. And then it's like, Nicki Minaj's official video. You click on it, and they use the thumbnail to make it look like it's a video. And then some guy is talking about it. You're like, can I actually find this freaking thing? And then the one that actually has millions of hits is the last one to actually appear. What's up, dawg? This is it right here. This is the ad. Damn, I want to watch it, man. Tell these fuckers to go on YouTube. It changed the game for a lot of video game advertising. Fuck yeah, it did, dude. But also, you guys raised the bar so high as far as the graphic appearance of game.

43:40when we were in your uh we came into your office it was i guess it was like two years before this came out yeah and you guys were deep deep in development you had all these crazy models and all these you know it was mostly just demonstrations of the technology but you know i remember asking you like what are you guys up to like what's going on you're like we're about to take a big fat shit on doom i cannot confirm or deny saying that and then uh and then i went and i wow and i watched it and like the especially the light like a lot of the shit you had was like demonstrations of how the flashlight how many years ago was that? it was wild so think about where technology is going to be in a few years man it's going to be insane like if if Sony and Microsoft getting around to actually making next generation consoles like imagine what that's going to be like what is the bottleneck? I want it personally

44:22I want some avatar quality stuff real time like that's where IMAX theater imagine that going to a concert where you're all together in a concert there'd be no need to have a real life it would be World of Warcraft every day everyone would just plug into their fucking computer and be some sort of an elf. We'd just wander through the forest. And we'd all turn into the Cartman on South Park with the WoW episode. It's a fucking dangerous thing we're doing here because we make games more exciting and way fucking cooler than real life. It gets weird. It's our meta brain that's getting hooked up, right? Well, the scary thing is what happens when we can download consciousness into a computer. Singularity. The option is to, I want a blivin' fucking avatar, man. Yeah. You know? Well, you know about the whole thing about the singularity, right? Yeah, sure. Ray hurts well and all that, right? Sure. I have a feeling it's within

45:08in our lifetime. For those of you that don't know, Brian's little butter dog is attacking me right now. That dog's a slut. Do you know what a butter dog is? No. A dog's a serious slut. Did you ever tell you about that, Joe? No. What's a butter dog? I had a buddy of mine. He came in. He's a photographer from New York one time. We were doing a photo shoot for a magazine, and he's telling me how much he hated dating in New York City. I'm like, well, why? He's like, well, there's a certain type of girl in the city who's given up on the dating scene, and she has what's called a butter dog. And I'm like, what? she's a good girl, but her dog's annoying. No, it turns out that this type of girl, this might be an urban legend, he might have been fucking with me, but it sounded... Peanut butter? Turns out that their boyfriend is their little dog with their little tongue and a little peanut butter,

45:44and then that's their boyfriend from there on out. So anybody from New York can confirm or deny this if it's an urban legend, I would love to know. It's just a regional thing? It might be a Manhattan thing. Is there message boards that we can meet and greet other people that enjoy it also? Yeah, I'm sure there's a message board out there for girls like to get their pussy licked by dogs. Have you guys seen the shit that Pirate Bay is doing? They're attacking Visa and MasterCard. Because of this WikiLeaks thing? Yeah, they are attacking Amazon for not hosting it. MasterCard was down to it. MasterCard, you can make a donation in WikiLeaks. Now they're all attacking them. This WikiLeaks thing is fucking fascinating. For people who don't know, and I just found this out today, Ari brought it up yesterday, or the day before when we had the podcast, and then, was it yesterday? Yesterday.

46:27Ari brought it up yesterday at the podcast, and then today I went online and started looking it up. The guy was arrested for surprise sex. Hi, buddy. The guy was arrested because his condom broke and he didn't tell her. That's the crime. And apparently it's only a crime in Sweden. Like, this is nuts. Like, they had an Interpol. Like, they're trying to get this guy and bring him in for questioning, but this is the charge? I've known girls who try to get married that way. But this woman that he did it with, the woman he had sex with, this chick has published websites, with a detailed list of how to get revenge on men. It's just craziness. I mean, the idea that this is enough to bring this guy into justice, the internet is going to stop that, man. Some shit is going to go down from this. It's not going to be this easy. It's really hard for any organized system to fight

47:16because somebody somewhere is going to be willing to host something. Yes. And how many places are you going to break down and shut it down? On one hand, I'm like, wow, this is fascinating. There's information I should be seeing that maybe some of it needs to be exposed. And on the other hand, I'm like, this is national fucking security, man. We're talking about serious stuff that could really put people's lives at risk. So I'm on the fence with it. I can see both sides of it. I can see both sides of it too, but I can't see defending against it. I don't think it's right or don't think it's wrong, but I can't see stopping it from happening. When you fuck with people that are that powerful, they will find some sort of way to get to you. I know, but that's what's fascinating about this, is how transparent it is. It's incredibly transparent. All of a sudden, this woman who, by the way, has CIA ties,

47:56follow my Twitter. Just go to Joe Rogan. There's a bunch of things that I tweeted today. When I started researching about it, and I'm not talking about CNN, talking about legit news sources, and they're showing how the connections are with this guy is actually being arrested for. It's a fascinating thing, man. I'm surprised. They're arresting him for having sex with no condom. This is consensual sex. It's not rape. It's not assault. It's craziness. And this is something that's like, there's an Interpol warning for him. They're searching for him all over the place for having sex. Oh, you got extra done. Whoa. That's insane. Did he? Did he get extra done from London to Sweden? Yeah. It's craziness. It's really shocking how transparent it is. I'm the honestest person, the majority of these things didn't happen sooner. I remember sitting there, and I had a friend right about the time we were working on Unreal One.

48:40This was about 97. And I went over to his house, and he was downloading full, high-quality Hollywood movies off of a website. And this was in 97. Wow. And I'm sitting here going, and now it's like BitTorrent is everywhere, right? And you have a generation that doesn't want to pay for shit. Right. Right? Like the Scott Pilgrim movie. Did you see that, Brian? Yes, one of my favorite movies. Amazing movie, right? Out of nowhere, I can't believe they pulled it off. I thought it was amazing. Edgar Wright, who did Shaun of the Dead, right? It was just a great movie. And what happened was it bombed at the box office. But at the same time, it was like a perfect movie for the gamer nerd generation, right? A hipster generation even, right? And I saw somebody tweet about it. They're like, Scott Pilgrim is the movie of this generation. The problem is this generation doesn't pay for shit, right?

49:19I had a friend of mine one time. She posted on her Facebook. She's like, oh, I saw The Lovely Bones. It was amazing. And it was two weeks before the film came out. I'm like, you're posting this on your Facebook. Did you get a screener from somebody in L.A. or something? She's like, no, I torrented that shit. Yeah, people just admit it. Right? Just talk about it openly. Well, what's Hollywood going to do? Go knocking on people's doors? Like the music industry, right? Nobody wants to be the fucking music industry right now. I'm wrong with my words. We have to get rid of currency and make it likes because all those people would have liked it. And so then you just want to collect likes. They're not even money. That's going to be the currency in the future. It feels like sixth grade. Do you like me or do you like me like me? Yeah, but he's got a point. You know what I mean? Yeah.

49:52Because that's all you're going towards, and that's like the new currency people are using. That's actually a good idea. That's actually some sort of a revamped idea. Have you ever actually tried to unlike anything on Facebook? It's a nightmare. Yeah, but that's how it should be. Yeah. It's easy to get in, hard to get out. It's like, calm down, drama queen. Just think about this for a bit. Brian's used to deal with crazy bitches. Do you really dislike cupcakes? Really? You know you like them. Settle down. What's with the thumbs down? Why is there 32 thumbs down and 1 million thumbs up? Who are you 32 people? I want to know who pays for those things, like GIFs. Is that what they're called? You're paying like $3 for a balloon to put on somebody's Facebook? That was a part of Facebook. Are you talking about like you got a button or something? Yeah, a button. That's what it was. Dude, virtual goods are huge.

50:37Yeah, I heard. I'm not into it. The whole rage right now in the industry is they call freemium. Really? It's like the game is free, which is a brilliant idea in a bad economy. And so you start playing it. But hey, you see that guy who has the fancy cowboy hat? You could have that for a dollar. Let me ask you, what do you think about this? What do you think about games where it's like EverQuest and shit where they sell the character? They build up some crazy superhuman character and then they go sell it. Are you talking about digital farming? Yeah, it's great. Is that what it's called? Yeah, there's entire places where they busted for World of Warcraft where they'll sit there and they'll just farm. Yeah, I watched that on TV, man. There was this couple that was all about addiction of gaming.

51:10I don't know what the show was, but it was a sad, sad couple, man, because they weren't paying attention to their kid. Their poor kid was like, Mommy, Daddy. They're like, shut up. It's not an episode of Law and Order. No, it was a real TV show. And one of the things that they had is all these people that were in, I think it was like Russia or somewhere like that, that were playing games for Americans. They build up their account. They play all day, and then they sell it to them. This is the fundamental tradeoff that you have right now. As you get to a certain point, we realize there's – people often talk in the industry about kids versus adults. Kids have no money and all the time. Adults have very little time and have the money. And so which audience are you, right?

51:44If you can have a person who can get paid the equivalent of five cents an hour and every hour he can earn a dollar's worth of gold, that's a business model for somebody, right? I don't think Blizzard's a fan of that, right? But once you have eyes – like I often talk about the seven deadly sins of game design, right? Like I walk into this world and I see you with your fancy two-girls-one-up shirt on and I'm like, ooh, I want one of those. How do I get that? Then I envy you, right? And then I wind up getting greed so I can collect money. And then I wind up getting too many and I wind up with gluttony. And then it's just all these start factoring into each other. And once you have eyes, it's the way the world works. You see the guy with the nice car. It's like, oh, I envy him. I want that nice car. You can apply that to the virtual world exactly as you can apply it to the real world.

52:21You know Blizzard and World of Warcraft? I don't know the exact numbers, but they had released a pet, whereas it was like 25 actual dollars or something like that. And their servers wound up getting crashed and people lining up to buy it just for like one little pet. That's the power of those. What they've figured out how to do is make it so that the more you play the game, the better you get, the better your life is, the more successful you are, the more powerful you are, the better the experience is, the more you have control over the people in the game. And that's like the really trippy thing. It's like it's a time thing. They like locked you in. Like it's like it's a show that you're totally hooked on and it never ends. And it keeps getting crazy every time you do it. And you keep meeting new people. and any, Blizzard, mark my words, has created this mold that so many other people

53:03in the business are going to follow. We got this thing in the new Gears where we have a calendar. It's like you play Gears and it's like, oh, hey, don't trade in your game because in two weeks there's like ticker Tuesday or triple XP Thursdays, right? And then your friends are playing on that same day and you want to keep going, right? And maybe there's like a psychology trick there where like, you know, you don't sell the game because you're thinking there might be something coming up, right? We're dungeon masters and we're always like manipulating that experience online to have new shit happen. Yeah, it's kind of crazy that it just keeps going though. But dude, I mean, how much control does your average person have over their life, right? Very little. So if you could have a world where you could start gaining that control. Yeah. I think the biggest problem like when you're young is figuring out what you want to do

53:40when you grow up, right? Like thankfully I was lucky and I saw games and I was like, boom, that. Right. But so I've talked to kids and they're like, I'm going to school and I don't know what I want to do. It's like, dude, pick something and be surgical about it and decide that you're going to be the best at that. Yeah, but the problem is finding something. For a lot of kids, the real issue is finding something. I mean, you got lucky. I got lucky. A lot of people did. But it's very difficult to find the thing that you're into. You don't want to say, oh, it's going to be this, and then you're doing it, and then halfway into it, you're like, this fucking blows. Okay, so it's difficult to find what that thing is. It's like asking at a young – especially at a young age when you don't know – you hardly know a lot about what's going on in the world around you.

54:14But at the same time, that opportunity now with the internet is greater than ever, right? Like you could shoot a viral video. You could start a podcast. You could do anything. and if you start getting better and better at it, you can build community, right? If that's what you want to do. But what if you want to be a carpenter? Or what if you want to be a painter? You know, there's so many... For kids, the hardest thing is finding the thing. Finding whatever the fuck it is. Like, you know, most kids don't get enough exposure to interesting ideas. Between the schoolwork... When you go to school, when you think about what you've got to do, you've got to get up at fucking 7 o'clock in the morning, you've got to leave, catch the bus with a bunch of other douchebags, do a bunch of shit that sucks all day, listen to a bunch of people tell you you're never going to make anything out of your life

54:51unless you pay attention to them. and they're like, listen, bitch, you're teaching school. I know you don't make any money. Shut the fuck up. But don't you love it? It's like, oh, life was so great when you were a kid. No, nonsense. It's moments, but it sucked. So to find something that you truly love in the midst of all this programming is what... School is no more than programming. It is education. There is information that you're going to download and you're going to remember it. But the reality of what it is is getting you programmed to get used to doing things you don't want to do, listening to people that you don't want to hear. Be around people you don't want to be around, like coworkers. There's a buzzer. Why does there have to be a buzzer, stupid? Why is this so important that we fucking leave at a certain time and get there at a certain time? You're turning me into a robot.

55:29You're turning me into some worker asshole that just goes and does the same goddamn thing every day. You're providing order for a certain mind that might otherwise devolve into chaos. Yeah, there's ways to educate people. Have you hung out with any public school teachers? My favorite hobby is if I'm out with friends and I was out in San Francisco with a buddy and he had a date who's a public school teacher. And any time I find one of them, I pull over and I'm like, come here, come here, let me buy you a drink. and we'll just sit there and pick their brain for like an hour. My uncle's a public school teacher. Does he have horror stories? Oh, of course he does. Right? He teaches in New Jersey. Yeah. Like, you know, like classes that are huge, like kids who are young, like super young, hooking up in bathrooms, they have to call child protective services. It's a horror story out there.

56:05Well, you know, they're all doing crazy shit now too because of the internet. You know, you hear like 13-year-olds are talking about making out with other girls. There was no girls making out with girls when I was 13. That shit never took place. Now they're all doing it, you know? Yeah, that was like a ratio 13-year-old girls, yeah When I was 13, I knew a lot of 13-year-olds, dude None of them were making out with each other Everybody would say they were going to do something And you never knew quite what it was, right? And there was this kind of adult conspiracy To keep pornography away from you and things like that You had to go in the woods and find porn We've talked about this a hundred times on the podcast Finding porn in the woods It's so funny, everyone's got the same story It's incredible that we didn't bring this up to you We didn't bring this up to you And everyone has the same goddamn story

56:47You're in the woods, you find a magazine You should make an adult bookstore in the woods. It'd probably be the most successful. Just don't even have any signs in the middle of the woods. There's like a Johnny Porno CD. It looks like Ron Jeremy and a thong going through the giant sack of porn. And it's like cherry and hustlers. Yeah, cherry. Yeah. Yeah, swank. It's not Playboy. It's the dirtiest shit you could find. It was the bad stuff we grew up with. Oh, your dog. There we go. It was always penthouse with a lot of water damage. And it was always the girls that looked like they had a sarlacc pit down there. It was horrible, right? And your young, impressionable mind is like, oh, my God. I'm supposed to think this is hot? what is going on here? It's terrifying. Yeah. But now with the click of a button, you can see two girls, one cup. Yeah. We've talked about this before, about how crazy it is, how,

57:28how close all this stuff is. Yeah. Like someone can send you a Twitter link and you click on it and it's going to be the most horrible thing ever. Mark my words, if I ever have children, like they are not going to get a cell phone until they're maybe 13. Yeah. But you know what? The worst thing you want to have is an uninformed kid. True. True. When all the other kids, just talk to them and just let them be in the same flow as everybody else. Just let them know what the fuck is going on while it's happening. As long as that base is there, right? Yeah, yeah. Look, there's that old expression, the kids are going to be all right. And they are. They're going to be all right. They're going to be fine, just like we're fine. We're worried about them. And I have little daughters. And logically, I can say this. And, of course, paternally, I just want to protect them and nerf the fucking world and all that.

58:13But I understand where that's coming from. These kids are going to be fine. They're growing up with other human beings To some extent you want them to make their own mistakes I've known parents who pad the house up too much And it's like let them fall over once in a while Let them learn, have balance You've got to be careful Kids die Don't have a cool stove in the middle of the living room But if you have hard floors Like I have marble floors It's kind of tricky You've got to watch them But that's not the point The point is They're growing up with other people and I think things always get better. And even though it seems like shit's worse, even though it seems like shit's worse as far as the economy and all this craziness as far as invasion of privacy and the access to information that we have and they're getting inundated with images and videos and all this shit that we didn't see until we were well mature,

59:03they're going to be fine. This is how they're growing up now. This is just how it is. And we're just the old people that are just like our parents, like, you know, kids these days, look at them. Kids with these video games. It's the same thing. It's just we're like kids these days with their fucking ass-to-mouth porn. They got ass-to-mouth porn on their fucking iPhone. Well, that's just what it is. This is the new world, and the world constantly keeps getting more and more complex. It's a world of ass-to-mouth. The world is always getting more and more fucked up. It's always getting more complicated, more strange, more bizarre. So where is it going? To the zombie apocalypse? Is the world just devolving? Look, I think as long as there's freedom of information, the way we're expressing each other right now and communicating with each other, people are going to be able to figure out things quicker.

59:42and I think kids are going to be able to figure out this multi-faceted fucked up chaotic world far quicker than some fucking doofus from 1963 you know you take some kid from 1963 you can talk them into anything they didn't know shit today kids are going to be more savvy, more aware, more information nobody needs to ask anybody anything anymore you just look it up and you can find it Wozniak was complaining about this actually there was Steve Wozniak one of the creators of Apple was doing an interview where he was saying back in my day if you had a question, you had to find a smart person and ask them. Well, that's dumb. Why are you complaining about that? There's not that many fucking smart people. What, I've got to seek out one dude? That's retarded. I have to go and talk to the professor? That's why they're so goddamn arrogant about their information. That's the classic thing about the Mayans, right?

60:26They used to control them by all the, quote, priests who figured out science and figured out how the lunar cycles and how everything would turn out. And everyone was like, wow, how do they know this? It must be magic. And they're like, we're controlling this through knowledge, right? Yeah, well, there's... Yeah, the Egyptians too before the Library of Alexandria burned down. They had – I mean that was the idea as well. They kept all the knowledge. They had all this information about all sorts of different things that the layperson was unaware of. Now everybody can get it. Google, bitch. Damn. We used to have to seek out a Tim Sweeney or a John Carmack. Yeah. And hang on to them and ride them up to the top. Yeah, it's true. Now there's just fucking a computer connection to the internet and all your questions answered. But it's not always true, dude. Not always. That's the thing. But it's getting there.

61:06It's getting closer and closer. It's getting to the point. There's a lot of disinformation, but there's also a lot of information. There's a lot of good information. And I think that's good because I think just like we need to be able to discern between bullshit and reality in the real world, we need to be able to discern between bullshit and reality online. And people will sort it all out and figure it out. There's a lot of urban myths about all sorts of different things. If you drink a Coke and take fucking this with it, you'll die. I mean, how many different stories have we ever heard? And then you just go online. Yeah, it was Coke and Pop Rocks growing up. Yes, that's right. That's what it was. And it was Mikey from the Life Cereal commercial died. His stomach exploded, right? And then there was the urban legend about the girl who stuck the hot dog in her pussy and then had to go to the hospital.

61:47You never heard that one? I didn't hear that one. That was the other one, right? All the maggots were starting coming out of her ass. Oh, then there's the one about the lobster, right? You heard that one, right? What was that one? The girl apparently took a lobster. It wasn't such a Boston one. It's a lobster. She took a lobster, put it in her, and then lit a mash to make its tail flip around. Turns out the lobster had planted a bunch of eggs in her. and then like three weeks later she died in the tub. Yeah, I can totally see that. Some disgusting girl with shit breath telling me that story. It really seems like life is going towards having a matrix bubble where you live in a bubble and your whole life is... She was such a whore. She took this lobster and she stuck it in her pussy, right? She lighted it with a light on. She lit on fire and it was on fire

62:30and a fucking lobster just dropped all these eggs in her snatch. It was a lobster fest. And two fucking lobsters are crawling out of her pussy. what a whore. That's wicked weird. Don't you think that's the case that life is going towards where we're going to be in a bubble and our whole life is going to be some kind of matrix-style cocoon where we're all working for the hive? I actually think the people who actually have people skills will suddenly... Everybody's going to know how to be connected and how to get all this data, right? But those who actually can interact in real life will actually do pretty well. If you can have the combination of that, right? That's what I'm saying about carpenters. It's interesting to try to speculate as to what exactly is going to happen, but we all know that something's happening and that's the most interesting

63:04thing about this conversation is that we all are just admitting like everyone's saying this no one's saying well this is going to stop and everything will level off and then we'll just you know go fishing it's going faster than ever though exponentially right yeah it's it's moving in a weird direction when you were talking about that smart dust you know and you know the ability to track you and little particles that can hang on to you and 3d computers and this whole wiki leaks thing i mean what the transparency of the whole process now seeing this guy get arrested for not wearing a condom and they're tracking him down like he's a killer and that is the main thing he's done wrong. He didn't wear a condom. That's what they're charging him with. Nobody knows anybody else involved with it though, right? He's the one who's willing to stand up there and take it on the chin

63:45as the face of this whole operation. I don't understand the whole story. I need to look into it more and I hesitate to... Anytime anything involves anything political, I always just say, you know what? It's like watching a TV show that's fucked me over. You know, this show sucks. You're not getting me again. I'm not going to watch your stupid show. And that's how I feel about politics. So when anything like this is in the news, I'm like, fuck you. My time's valuable. You guys are all crazy. You're all full of shit. Kiss my ass. I'm not paying attention. But as this is getting further and further along, I'm getting sucked in because it's so surreal. It's so strange. Well, you know only a certain percentage of the cables were actually released. It was something like 20,000 out of 300,000 or something. They're fucking panicking, man. The politicians are panicking.

64:27They're going to know, all these other nations are going to know what kind of shit we talked about. them you have a hard time containing data though even in my business it's just like oh suddenly something just appears as a rumor on a website yeah it's like how the fuck it's amazing it's interesting it's somebody profiting by this like because i know in the gaming industry if you're like going to leak something to like you know a video game website you're not going to make money like and you know you'd hope somebody wouldn't have two beers at a pub and tell them something like and then it's if they people run with it right that's one of the most fascinating things about bit torrents and all this stuff it's almost like people feel compelled to contribute it's like there's there's a like a human urge to put information and stuff available online like before

65:05people were getting chased down people loved the idea that you could go to their site and get a bunch of shit yeah you can get a bunch of shit from them and they they love to be yeah they love to be distributors of it you know it was so common there were so many different sites that had illegal shit and there's got to be like a human nature thing where you just want to like share and host and have community and remember where's where's sites yeah of course yeah i mean that's different than BitTorrent. People don't know that there was these weird fucking hidden sites where you can go and download... It was Wares with a Z. Yeah. W-A-R-E-Z. And you could go and... Mexico with Juarez. They got all shut down. They figured out how to stop them. But then this whole peer-to-peer thing came up. And the peer-to-peer thing is too confusing for people who don't know. It's like when you're

65:45downloading, say if you're getting a movie, you're not getting it from one person. You're getting it from like a hundred people or more even. You're getting all these files and somehow or another they're compiling onto your computer. Yeah, but it's crazy because you're taking all these ones and zeros from like 30 different places and then the final product is illegal. Like, whoa, what are you saying? And how do you track, right? Where did it come from? Somebody had it. The one person that had it, there's one illegal copy, right? And then they're all illegal, but what if there's one legal one? So here's the key, is to provide a service that people are willing to pay for. Why do you think Hollywood's betting on 3D so much right now? Right? It's like, okay, what are we going to actually do? I think it's adding the third dimension. I think the key to that is NFL. I don't think it's porn. NFL would be dope too.

66:27We're filming all the UFCs in 3D. Yep, UFC in 3D, that'd be genius, right? Yeah, they're doing it. So then it's an event, right? They filmed a bunch of them already. I want my 3D to be an event. I want to go see Avatar. I want to go see Tron in 3D. I don't want to go see like Meet the Fokker 6 in 3D. I don't really care, right? And in my house, like, you know, I don't really need to see like, you know, your average rental in 3D. But when there's an event, there's a fight, there's the Super Bowl, I will put my glasses on and watch that in my house in 3D. Or a dope movie. something fucking badass. Something that's super CG. I'm sorry. The more I watch TV in 3D, though, it's not really about that. I think why they're trying to make all the movies 3D and all the games 3D is to make it to the point that what we're going towards is like walls of TVs or, like I was saying, the IMAX movie theater where it's going to be...

67:11You're still in the bubble, aren't you? You want the 360... I think they're really trying to push that. Not the 3D part, just the depth part of it. So that's what is going towards a bigger screen. So do you think that they can do that eventually? They'll be able to create an image that looks three-dimensional without actually having to have glasses and all that jazz. Have you seen the Nintendo 3DS? Yeah, they already have it. They already have it. But does it look like – remember when we went to that – I don't remember where the place was. We went to – and we saw some sort of a big screen. Was it in Austin? They had a big screen that was – it was a 3D thing. They have them now. It was super dope. It was at Best Buy. Somewhere in Best Buy. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was Best Buy. Remember they had – it was incredible. but we were watching that Monsters vs. Aliens. It was insane.

67:53The depth was so fucking gripping. I was like, this is giving me a mental boner just to watch it. It's thrilling. It's so alive with visuals. So your story doesn't always have to be the most original thing, but if you can provide something somebody's never seen before. That's why we play games. That's why we go to the movies, is to get away from the shitty day-to-day mundane life. That's why there are people who love Avatar so much that are depressed when they leave it, right? Because they created this whole virtual world that just wanted to exist in, right? Yeah, it was me, man. I wanted to go there. I wanted to leave this world. Dude, when I read about that movie, I'm like, this is retarded. It's like, okay, so it's blue people meets Ferengully, and I'm watching, I'm like, oh, this is cool. That was a perfect example of depth, though, when you saw Avatar for the first time, how, like, that one scene

68:34where they're going down, they're pulling out something, like a dead body or something, and they showed, like, that long hallway. Yep. You know, that's what it seems like. Everything, I've been watching regular TV in 3D for, like, a couple months now, and even, like, regular TV shows is that they have a reenaction that makes the TV try to make it in 3D. Not reenaction, recreation of trying to make it 3D. And even shows like that, you're just watching TV, and you're like, wow, this background is really far back. So it seems like everything is going for just depth nowadays, that the technology is going to be like us in a pod, and we're just going to sit there and communicate. The key is to get people so used to it that they can't go back. Right, exactly. That's what it seems like. I'm sorry, what are you saying? So used to it that what? That they can't go back. Right.

69:15That's how it is with HD for me right now, right? But never underestimate how many people don't have the money or the desire to upgrade to that. That was the stonest conversation I ever said. Sorry. We can track how many people have HD versus standard definition televisions in our games, right, based on their settings. And it's actually not as many people as you'd think have HDTV still to this day. Really? There's still a great percentage of rural America that still doesn't have broadband, right? There's so many people that lag behind it because it's just not a priority for them, right? You'll always get your early adopters, you know, guys like you who have 3D. There's still tons of people out there. Like, I stream all my stuff on my Xbox. like when I saw the Redbox you go to the supermarket where I live and like a Friday night near the college there's a line out the door for the Redbox and I'm like

69:53what is this right it's just it's Blockbuster condensed into one box that you can just rent right and it's huge not everybody has the broadband and has an Xbox set up they can easily stream everything from the comfort of their living room right yeah but not everybody had electricity 200 years ago you know what I mean it's like it's all oh we gotta keep pushing forward right it's all gonna it's eventually going in the same direction doesn't matter how many of these hillbilly fucks don't catch up with no broadband in 2010. I got no fucking time for you. That's silly. You need to move, stupid. You need to fucking get your family out of the woods, dude. Come on, buddy. It's like there's not going to be carpenters anymore, though. It seems like we're saying if you want to be a carpenter, how is this person going to find his job and stuff? That's what's going to happen. There's not going to be houses anymore.

70:35We're going to live in pods. Will we have gigantic 3D computers or 3D printers that we set up that build a house? Is that what it'll be? There'll be something. No, it would be like a cocoon of a third dimension wall that wraps around your body like the Matrix. What if you don't want to live like that? You're not going to be able to live out Unabomber style in the woods? But what if you're young and you grew up with that and you don't need that much space and you prefer the virtual world over the real world, right? And you're perfectly comfortable running around a virtual field over a real one. Maybe it'll be inevitable. Maybe it'll get so dope that why would you want to live in the real world? Stupid. Maybe the fake world will be so fucking badass. What if you could just go and live like – remember when virtual reality was all the rage in the 90s?

71:15And be immortal with a giant dick and eyes that can see through walls. And there's no racism in this world. Yeah, no racism. Unless you're like purple or something. And you have all the money that has ever been printed. It's all yours. There's no monopenis. We all have multi-penises everywhere. And you can just go to other worlds. You can travel to other worlds. You can do anything. It's not real. You can make it out. You can craft your own world, right? Yeah. That's the million-dollar – billion-dollar, trillion-dollar prize everybody wants to go for for games is to give you your dream that you can ultimately control. Well, let's think about this, man. I mean, what is imagination? Imagination is some sort of energy that allows you to think up something that isn't there and create it, and now it becomes real. It manifests itself in the real three-dimensional world, and you can beat on it with a hammer.

71:53It all comes from imagination. So imagination is like some real creating force. But nobody really ever knows where that comes from. Does it come from your environment? Does it come from what you're exposed to? Like, what is it, right? Well, they also, the concept of the muse, that you're an antenna, and that you're tuning in to all the energy that's out there, and all this, you know, you just sort of, some sort of another, you know, like process it just like, you know, like a satellite dish pulls it out of the sky and makes these numbers, ones and zeros into this image. You're getting heavy for me now. But it's true. I mean, when you look at what imagination is, I mean, it really is some sort of an energy, something that exists in the mind and that it's ethereal and then it becomes a solid thing. It becomes a Miller Lite, you know, it becomes a computer, it becomes a microphone, you know,

72:31and this is eventually got to move further, right? So if the imagination of all these thoughts can become a real thing by someone getting out and sawing some wood and nailing some things together, eventually it's going to become something through code where you can alter things not with a hammer and nails, but you can use your mind to create a real world. That could be 100% real. Your imagination applied operating system that tunes into neural interface and becomes a part of you. And you and this operating system connect to some sort of a computer or whatever the fuck it is, whether it's wireless or whatever. And then all of a sudden, you enter into a tangible three-dimensional world that you control. Then you upload into it. What the fuck, man? And we leave meat space. Meat space. But think about what happens when the meat dies and you just rot and then someone has to come along and clean you.

73:25They have to recognize There's a hole in the matrix Do you not find it weird That it's 2010 And we still bury people In the ground Yes It's a scam We should dress those people up And fucking dance them around Like we get No they fall apart You need to burn them What are you talking about stupid I think that should be a play It should be the play Of this guy You go there to respect the guy And it's like six months long You're so crazy You gotta burn them It's so dumb man It costs so much money To bury people man I was at the The Duncan show At the cemetery Yeah What's it called The Hollywood cemetery. He's got some weird show he does at the Hollywood Cemetery. That's where he had the Gears launch party. Yeah, that's where the Gears sign is from. They do movies and shit there. Yeah, it's awesome. It's like a hip cemetery. But they do a comedy show there and we were there and so it was the first time I'd ever been around

74:10gravestones in a long time. And they're all high tech now. They have like laser etched people's faces and shit into the gravestones. Do they have like video screens and stuff? No, they're probably the next level. But they have posters of like the Sopranos and stuff like that on the walls and like Harry Potter. Oh, inside those. Yeah, inside the place. Yeah, but I'm talking about where the dead people are. Yeah. Where the dead people are, the headstones, they're like high tech now. Yeah. Like the whole place is like just like a trendy place like that. So even there's like neon lights around like some of the graves and there's these digital candles that flick. It's like this like a hip. You know what you do is ridiculous. What you do is if you die, you have a live streaming thing that has a Twitter hashtag with your name. So people can like do shout outs, right? Yeah, totally.

74:50I want to give a shout out to Gravestone number 42. You ever know anybody who died who still has a Facebook? Oh, yeah. That is weird stuff, man. Outlaw. His wife updates his Facebook all the time. I miss you and shit like that. Yeah. It's such a weird thing. I've known people, and it's weird. They almost haunt you on Facebook. Yeah. They keep popping up in photos and stuff that aren't tagged. Like, tag me. And you'll be in the middle of the day just eating your lunch, and it just pops up. And you're like, oh, man. It's a weird, sobering reminder. And you're not going to delete it. It's like this weird kind of ghostly memorial to that person, right? Yeah. It's trippy. What happens when that person starts responding, though, and it's not like the wife's like, hey, hey, hit my like button? And you're like, I think the acid's kicking in.

75:34There's this article in Fast Company talking about how Twitter is kind of taking over in certain ways and how basically during the VMAs this year, they had Twitter projections on the wall of the number of hits each artist got. And they had live feeds of what people were saying about each artist. And so we have a generation right now that wants to interact 24-7. It started with the remote control, and now it's not enough. I know friends who have been sitting there texting other people, and I'll say something like, hey, do you want to go to the store? And they'll be like, did you actually hear what I just said? And they'll be like, yeah, you said you want to go to the store while they're in the middle of typing an email. The human mind is adapting to this kind of multitask ability. It's not just enough to sit down and watch something. You need a ticker feed.

76:08We're playing an online game, and in between rounds, we're tweeting at the same time. You have to keep doing something and doing multiple things. Otherwise, the brain is bored. You know what? I don't think it affects traffic as much either because I think the majority of people that have the Google Maps live traffic view sorts it out from people that are just sitting there twittering their mom and driving slower. It cancels each other out because now we have better technology, so we know where to drive better and where the traffic is. So that equals out the other retards that are just sitting there twittering and slowing down traffic a different way. So what do you think about that? Do you mount your phone to the center of your steering wheel? What's that? You should mount your phone to the center of your steering wheel. No, I just did the side straddle thing. I looked down at the map.

76:49I'm like, okay, I've got to turn right up here. But you're at the point where you can feel the tug of your phone in your pocket sometimes. Oh, yeah. Where you're just like, I just want to look. You know, having a Twitter fan base and just seeing. You post something before you leave the office or whatever, and you're driving to the road. You just want to know what they're going to say, right? Right. And you just want to respond. That in itself, having a community, right, that's incredibly addictive. Totally. You have an instant response from thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people, right? How could you not want to know what they're going to say? Half the time it's the same thing, and half the time it's something new, right? Yeah, it's very addictive. Very addictive. Just wanting to know what's going on.

77:24Because every now and then I'll check Twitter and someone will turn me on to something really amazing. Some incredible fucking video or something like that. Do you ever get a little weirded out by the links, though? You just worry about clicking on it. Like, hey, check out this video of this cat who farts while he burps. And you're like, Mac, you don't? Don't you use a Mac? No. Oh, you worry about viruses? The big Apple cherry popper for me was the iPad, man. Oh, yeah, totally. I love it. Yeah, you've got to get Mac, man. Clicking on links nowadays? Who cares, right? Yeah, you don't worry about viruses. You don't worry about anything. Yeah, I'm still a PC guy. That's what we develop on at work, right? That's all nice and good, dude, but it's nonsense. You have to have dessert. Yeah, you've got to have dessert, baby. It's like being a person who's allergic to peanuts,

78:02and you're eating everything blind, hoping you don't run into a peanut. Yeah, fair enough. You know, it's silly. Yeah. You're right? Is this Ustream.tv or .net? .tv. Fuck. What's the difference? I put out the wrong link on my Twitter. You want me to put it up for you? I put out the wrong link. These people are watching the wrong goddamn thing. Oh, yeah. Piss any time you want to. Yeah, get up here. Just piss in his mouth. Yeah, just watch for cables. He's been here before, man. Trust me. If you want to pee on my dog, she's out back. She likes it. Dogs love pee, man. You know what's crazy about video games nowadays is that Angry Birds game. There's a game, I don't know if you heard, that's 99 cents right now, I think it is. But that game has sold so many fucking 99 cent apps. Where's it called? Like Spielberg is going to be making a movie with Brad Pitt any day now as an Angry Bird or something. That's how crazy.

78:50I don't know what you're talking about. What is this? There's a game that you can get on your iPhone. You can also get it on the Droid and stuff like that. It's called Angry Birds. has sold shitloads of digital copies to the point where that game is making millions for a 99 cent video game. It's gotten so big that now they're making it for iPads, they're making it for consoles, but now it's going to... There's even a movie maybe in the works that's coming out. So what's the numbers? Millions of people watched it? Millions, yeah. What would you say? 3.7 million today? Ralphie May? That's what we're going to call it from now on. It's a Ralphie Mae. We just want to make up a word. Make up a number. I'm going to Ralphie Mae this number. There's 4,000 people that died. Remember that? And then we looked up. There's two. Two. He said, yeah, thousands of people died. He sounded as black as coal, too.

79:44Yeah, dude, thousands of people died. Two thousand, John Rogan. Two thousand. You will not understand this. Ralphie's a great guy, and he's very funny, but he sucks with numbers. You know, he's not. Well, he doesn't suck at numbers. What? His popularity of that episode is one of the fastest, most popular episodes I've ever had. Oh, Ralphie's very popular, man. Ralphie's funny. People love Ralphie. He has crazy, mad fans. You know, Ralphie was the best. Congrats, Ralphie. Ralphie. Ralphie was the one who was the best at capitalizing on that last comic standing show. He did it better than anybody, man. He just ran with that shit. He destroyed, like I said this on the podcast, I watch him destroy rooms. Like people just howling. On the show? Yeah, on the show. And that's what made me Got into thinking Like wow He is He is a real comic Or at least Well he's an animal dude That dude I mean he might be 500 fucking pounds

80:31Or whatever he is But he's working Yeah He's out there Constantly huffing it I heard he does like Three hour shows To it sometimes Really Like he's just Those ridiculous shows I want to know He's doing a lot of comedy man He's doing it constantly His feet His feet must hurt though They must hurt They must just fucking Maybe he sits down after a while Maybe he lays down Maybe Maybe what he does Is the audience Is on like It's like one of those Amusement part rides They all strap in and they raise them up over him so they're hanging from the ceiling and he's lying on his back and that's how he does his comedy. What if he had a water bed on stage and just laid back in a water bed and there was just candles all around him and that's how he did his whole show. That's actually kind of a cool fucking idea. How about just being in the tub? Just in the tub with candles doing your comedy? Oh, totally. That's actually not a bad idea.

81:13You had your opener in there with you and they're just hanging out laying there but you only open it. No, that's gay, bro. Only with girls though. You only had girl comedy. Then they sink down. So then you have one person who's funny and one person who isn't. Are you in that camp that thinks girls aren't funny? Most girls are not funny. That's a classic comedy thing, right? Well, there's a bunch. I mean, Sarah Silverman's really funny. I shouldn't say most girls. Look, most comics aren't funny either. There's less girls doing comedy, so there's less funny comedians that are women. Esther's funny. Little Esther, she's very funny. She's a good comic. There's a bunch that are really good comics. I mean, I have a bunch of friends that are comics that are female. It's a joke. But there's a lot of women that are terrible. It's a different – they have different restrictions. They can't talk about as many things.

81:55They can't – I mean Sarah Silverman does, but she's such a rarity. But that's kind of what it takes, right? Like you look at Richard Pryor and all the classics. Sort of, but it has to be you. It has to be you, and so very few women actually are that. I mean Sarah Silverman, one of the reasons why she's so funny and so brash and dirty is like that's what's funny to her. That's who she really is, and it has to really be you. And there's – Can't be doing an act. Yeah, for a lot of men, that's always, men, 90% of all men talk about, you know, a lot of the same situations. And, you know, you can relate to anyone, even if they're on stage, unless they're like as extreme as like, say, Joey Diaz. Joey Diaz will take it into a realm where the average man really has no. But for most women, you know, like conversations like men don't want to hear you talk about politics. Men don't want to hear your opinions.

82:39Men don't want to hear you talking about you getting laid. Men don't want to hear you talking about what the fuck is this bitch up there doing? So what do they get to talk about? So they're so limited. They're limited and they can't be the alpha. They can't be the one who has this idea that maybe everybody should listen to because it makes sense. You can't be that person. The last thing any fucking asshole man wants to do is be in the audience with some woman smarter than him that's making a lot of sense that's saying some shit that he should have thought up on his own. Yeah, good luck controlling that crowd. Good luck with that. Yeah, and good luck with politics. Men always oppose women on political issues. I know a lot of men who, when women think one way, they'll think the other way just because a woman thinks that way. It's just natural. Yeah, it's ingrained.

83:15Yeah, it's ingrained to not want a woman to control you. I think so many comedians just rely upon the whole marriage sucks, unhappy American male type thing, man. It's sad. Well, you know what it is? First of all, that is a lot of what they are. I mean, a lot of people, especially if you're shitty at relationships. I mean, we know a lot of people that have fucking terrible relationships. It is what it is. And it's also, they get programmed into thinking that that's what's funny. This is the angle This is what everybody does It's a whole like, oh, my life sucks like that So that's the way it is I feel sympathy for you, right? But some people will come out with it And you know it's real It's like two people can talk about the same subjects And one it works And the other one it doesn't And the one it works, it works because the shit is coming from a real place That's the most important thing

84:04With I think any kind of art It's got to come from a real place To really resonate with people This has to actually be what you want to do The one I started watching for about five seconds on cable the other night was Pauly Shore is Dead. Oh, how dare you. Did you enjoy it? No. No. I wonder why. That's weird. You know, the funny thing was, growing up as a teenager, we would watch that shit. Like, we would watch Pauly Shore movies, man. Yeah, well, the Pauly Shore of then is not the Pauly Shore of now. Oh, fair enough. Life moves on. Yeah, do you still go, are you working at the comedy store still? No, never. Never? Not anymore? No, that's the main reason why. That whole Carlos Mencia thing That was the end of it for me Yeah I don't want to bring up Yeah It was just gross I mostly do the improv now In other clubs But You alright buddy? Dude What is Brian's moving around Put down the butter dog With his fucking dog

84:54What did I miss about He's walking around with his dog Like he gets a suitcase He's such a strange person He needs a purse for it We're in the middle of a podcast You can get a bedazzled purse And just walk around You got a dog now? Yeah I got a couple dogs What kind? Well you know my story about When I was living in Colorado My dog got eaten by a mountain lion Did I tell you that? You told me that, yeah. It's fucking horrible. So I have two left. I got a Mastiff and I have a Bulldog. How big is your Mastiff? A buck 40. Jesus, I'm a buck 50. He's big. He's super friendly, though. He's like the nicest dog I've ever had. The bigger the dog, the nicer they are. The meaner they are, they're more the little shits. Well, there's some big dogs that are scary, though, like Presa Canarios. There's some giant dogs that are fucking dangerous that eat people. Usually the Mastiffs and the Danes are cool, right? Yeah.

85:33Great Danes are also really confident. They're really friendly. But Mastiffs, like, this dog is the best. He's just got the perfect personality. He's so sweet to everybody He's just a nice dog I can't do the little dog thing man I don't know how you do it Well the little dog is the one that got eaten I had a cool little dog man He was a Pomeranian and American Eskimos He was a fluffy dog But he got jacked by a mountain lion Did he just vanish one day Or did he come crawling home halfway Like the zombie in the walking day Long story that we've told many times I don't need to go over old stuff But I saw the mountain lion Having little dogs like that They really can't protect themselves from anything Like, foxes can jack them. You know, I saw a fox with a little baby deer. I didn't know. Like, everybody was talking about how foxes are, like, sweet. Oh, they're so cool. Look at the fox.

86:17They've got to survive, too, man. And I saw a fox dragging a fawn. And I was like, oh, this is real shit. You ever actually get to be around any of the big cats, man? Well, I saw this one mountain lion that was in my yard. And it was about 60 pounds, 70 pounds. It was like a dog, like a German Shepherd's eye. It wasn't big, like, holy shit, this is going to eat me. It was big, like, whoa, that's a mountain lion. It was almost kind of like more shocking that it was smaller because then I knew it was real. You know what I'm saying? Like I expected if I'm going to see a mountain lion, I'm going to see a full-grown mountain lion walking through the woods. But something about this small one, and I was like, whoa, there's small ones too. Like how many of them are out there? I started thinking, like, how many of these fucking creatures live in the woods and just kill things all day?

86:59I had a cat killed by a – I think it was a coyote out near my mom's place in California one time. You hear them at night, right? You just hear all the howling start kicking in, right? Yeah, they're in my yard sometimes or they used to be. I had to fix my yard So they couldn't get in But they would They would get in And they would shit All over the place They would shit over By my pool And it was creepy man Because I stay up late dude Yeah I'm up to like Four o'clock in the morning So while I'm up writing You know These fucking monsters Are wandering around my yard Looking for shit to kill Yeah but if you're out there They probably sense that you're there And they don't do To avoid it right You know Yeah but you know Don't fucking take a chance With a small person If there's no one around Dude I had a chance They've killed people before I had a chance To take my brother And my little Seven year old niece to the San Diego Zoo

87:38or the Wild Animal Park and kind of go behind the scenes and check out the whole cheetah setup there. And there's one cheetah there that was hand raised and my brother and I got to go in and like pet the fucking thing, right? And just hearing the... It sounds like a Harley Davidson right in person and you see the fur is actually really coarse and they have a certain presence about them just like a don't fuck with me, right? And I'm at that point where I'm like, okay, I'll go in, I'll get my photo op and I'm going to get the hell out because I don't want to have my face eaten like that baboon and that lady a while ago, right? And then there was another one that was just pacing the cage and when she saw my little niece, she stopped immediately made eye contact and my niece could sense like this creature like looked at her and wanted to eat her and just like completely ran behind my brother's legs right

88:13because the cheetah just saw her as food right it was just that primal instinct just kicked in yeah they can't help it cheetahs can be domesticated they're one of the few animals that you can successfully domesticate them they're actually in the low end of the cat food chain in Africa too right is that what it is yeah so they're actually somewhat endangered yeah yeah and people have actually kept them as pets and trained them and shit I guess they don't kill you dude I mean one of the few animals I'm still not going to trust it. Yeah, it was a smart move, especially with your niece, man. She wasn't allowed in with them, of course. It doesn't matter. Even having it aware that that's food, if it ever sees her again, it's creepy. The cheetah just realizes it. Whoa, that's crazy. The niece realizes it. It was one of those magic moments. They're like, all right, this is something not to mess with. That's some scary shit, dude.

88:57Big cat's the scariest. They say that the reason why we have scary, where people are afraid of monsters, like every kid is, it's all just leftover DNA from monkeys getting jacked by cats back when we were you know like subhuman hominoids it's a primal instinct to avoid scary stuff man right and like if there's an old Stephen King line I can't remember what it was from uh where he was saying you know when the lightning crashes and the door opens and you see a 40 foot bug there part of you is happy because you're expecting a 60 foot bug right like that's why alien worked right because you don't see the full alien right at the beginning you see the little bit of the leg a little bit of the tail and you're imagining like what can this thing possibly look like and yeah it was the most screwed up awesome H.R. Geiger design like ever, but at the same time, in your head, it was still out there. We rewatched

89:37Aliens recently. Aliens is good, but the problem with Aliens is that they establish an alien that this thing is super fucking intelligent, really fast, gigantic, super resourceful, very crafty and sneaky, but then the second one, they're just shooting them left and right, and they're dying. That was the whole movie that killed the first one. They needed one alien versus the truckers. They went too quick. They should have had less aliens. Listen to who the fuck am I? Movie designer. I'm telling them one of the greatest science fiction movies of all time. Still an amazing movie. But to me, I was like, wait a minute. You can just kill them that easy? Everyone's just running around shotgunning them. I like two better than one. One is an exercise in action. One is an exercise in suspense, right? One is the tease of the leg. The other one's the full-on blown-out porno, right? You ever re-watched The Thing?

90:24There was too many cut the shit scenes in the second one. Like when she was battling it with the exoskeleton on, I was like, why isn't it just stabbing you in the heart? It's got this giant fucking monster tail Why isn't it just scooping you out Like you're a muscle Because Jim Cameron sat down and he's like I want to see a fucking Mac versus an alien There's a certain point in creativity man Where you have to be like you know what A gun with a chainsaw makes absolutely no sense on it Like even look at the design If you went to grab the gun you saw your finger off right But it's cool Yeah but what I'm talking about is cut the shit moments Suspension of disbelief where you make me go in a place Where I think you got lazy Why are you making me go here Why is this your conclusion How's this bitch fighting this thing off of a giant robot? All they had to do was build a certain amount of...

91:03They had to make it believable. You gotta... I can't have to go, oh, well, I guess it's just really bad with its tail today. That's the same argument that says, well, Lord of the Rings, why didn't they just grab those birds at the end of it and have them fly over and drop the ring into the volcano, right? It's always possible to find one. Because birds don't listen to you. Fucking birds. They were riding the birds at the end of the movie, man. They were like carrier pigeons. I don't trust birds. Birds are cunts. Birds are all Former dinosaurs That became something new That's what they are I think that's the most Evil bird ever Is the African gray The most evil bird You ever see a shoe bill No There's a Congo documentary From the BBC That freaked me out once Because there's this Five foot tall Prehistoric fucking bird With this giant bill That jacks these fish It's fascinating man The thing that Fascinates me most

91:49About birds Is they really are dinosaurs They really are You know And they think There's a lot of theories That a lot of dinosaurs Had feathers You know they just rotted off and then we don't see the fossils of feathers. Yeah, the fossils were just placed there to test our faith, dude. There's a dude that I argue with on Twitter all day. I don't argue with him all day, but I read his shit all day. What is your threshold for blocking people? Oh, I just... They're annoying. I just... I just go on instinct. If you're annoying me, I just block you. I love it when they're dicks. Yeah, it's just so easy. It's like... I love it. I read the thing, you fucking... Do you block? I always quote that old comedy bit you did about the disproportionate amount of racial porn being sold in the South, right? Yeah. It's like, dude, if you hate me, then obviously there's something that I fucked up with my team in the game,

92:35like that we did something wrong. Like, how can I flip this to turn you into somebody who likes what we do? It's just one switch away. Maybe it's a reply saying, hey, man, sorry the matchmaking sucked in Gears 2. We've been working on fixing it. Like something like that to win you over. And if you do, then you could wind up with a fan for life, right? You would have to go back in time and stop that bus driver from fucking them in the ass and roofing them and giving them moonshine. You'd have to do that. You'd have to find out why they're angry, why their mom didn't love them, why their stepdad was a cunt. Or maybe it's the 36-inch LCD testicles that the internet provides people, right? Once you have anonymity, suddenly they get giant balls, right? There's that, but why are they angry? They're angry from someone. You don't take a healthy, happy, super cool person who watches a game and doesn't really like it

93:20and goes and attacks you on a personal basis. They're coming from a deep anger, a depression. It's crystal Pepsi. It's a lot of different things, man. It's like your life not being what you wanted it to be. Unfilled expectations were all around you. There's people like Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian that are multi-millionaires driving around at Bentleys and they do nothing and you're going crazy. And so you attack. And so you're just fucking, your game is for faggots. You eat shit. I hope you die in a fire. You know, like, whoa, whoa, whoa. We're in the era of the art of the meta celebrity, man. You don't have to be famous for anything. You could just be famous for being famous. You know what it is? It's fascinating. Was it Angeline? the blonde you always used to have the billboards. I'm going to pee, but go on to this. It's the continuation of that, right?

93:58It's just like, oh, you just want to be famous, so you are. It amazes me right now how many celebrities can bounce back from doing anything right now. Because America just loves a comeback story, right? Look at Charlie Sheen. Remember everyone forgets Kim Kardashian had a hardcore sex tape out there? You're like, dude, really? And there are little girls out there that are looking up to her right now. I had a buddy of mine recently who actually finally, I'm sure this happens in L.A. all the time, but he found her next girlfriend actually in a random porn video online. No way. Yeah. That's gotta be great. I want it to happen one day. I want to be able to just go through my porn. It's such mixed feelings, right? And it's, it's one of those things. Like if you sit there, like I would say like porn is like on the internet, it's like a, a man brought fractal. It just keeps going and going and you can just keep the,

94:41and it's never ending. Like when we were growing up, it was like Asia Carrera and like, uh, ginger Lynn. And then like Jameson. And then Jana came in line. It was like the same 15 actors just repeated with different spoofs of, movies right now it's like you can just go on there and it's like an infinite amount of girls and you're like at what point are you like all right so this is a thousand dollars and i don't think anybody's ever going to see this and his reaction man i felt so bad for him and of course i teased him like nobody's business but i was like dude you're getting your like you're chasing amy type of uh girl next door type moment right like he was just kind of crestfallen about they didn't even go out that long right but the fact that you know at some point he found this girl cool thing hung out and then he finds a video over on some random internet site doing some bad cheerleader

95:23porn right and it's just like i'm just coming back who is this you're talking about it's a buddy of mine in town you see people in uh in la i'm sure it's a common thing to like you know date a girl and then find out later she's a porn girl or she's done stuff like that but you know see it that often and outside of that and i had a friend of mine recently happened to and imagining the mix of feelings he came like like of comedy of crestfallen i'm like i'm like dude did you did you did you rub one out to it and he wouldn't he wouldn't admit to it but the the feeling he would have of the like we were just saying to brian about the chasing amy slash girl next door type vibe, right? They were just like, oh, man. It's kind of funny. I blame Joe Francis. Hey, what's going on with the Gears of War movie? They're still making that? You guys still making that? Let's wait for the sirens to goodbye.

96:05That's optimistic. Still working on it. I learned a lot about how filmmaking and how Hollywood and everything in the business works, right? I mean, you really realize that it is very much a business. It's annoying as fuck, right? There's so many people with so many different opinions and you've got to listen to all of them. Well, and there are people who just might not even have an opinion, but in order to stay relevant, they throw their opinion in. I'm missing one ear here. I'm only hearing out of one side. One side. Let's see. Test, test. Oh. You know what? I think it reconnected. I think it's just the base. Sorry. So what happens is it's a business, like any other business, right? And people want to make money. And often the people who make the decisions are often very rare with looking. Like, well, I'm looking at the last two years, and according to this,

96:45movies with monkeys in them do well, so you need a monkey. And I'm not saying that's my personal experience. That's exactly what it is. Yeah. I know what you're talking about. this project but what happened was they had they they're like okay we want to do this big you know we got uh you know len wise has been attached he's a great guy amazing director okay well great we you know we have a really good script you know we think we can knock this out they looked at the budget like okay so this is 120 million dollars estimated and there's no real love story in here it's got it's got to be rated r because you you know if i show up at comic-con and we have a clip that doesn't have people getting cut in half blood flying everywhere they're gonna tear us limb from limb and then uh there's no little kid jaden smith type story in there like this is this doesn't add

97:23up like it's just hit all the demographics and i remember reading a story about these guys who kind of created a computer formula for it where you could literally plug in the genre you could plug in the actors you plug the time of year it was released the various themes that are in it and they could uh you know vegas type betting odds you could bet on whether or not their production would actually make money and they they make money doing this right and you're at the point where it's yeah and it's it's and they're saying well we won't get the matrix so we won't get the 300 out of it, but we'll get, you know, some sort of Will Ferrell comedy that where he's doing a wacky sport, right? And you get to the point where creativity sometimes goes to die in that environment and for, you know, now everybody wants to make it District 9, right? Like, how can we make something that only costs 60 million dollars

98:02and then blows it out because everybody's conscious about how much money they spend. It's basic economics, right? So, I mean, we're, you know, kind of redoubling it, doing something that's a little bit smaller, you know, recycling the script. Project's not dead, man, but, you know, Are you doing it with live people? TBD, man. I mean, a lot of it depends on who gets attached as a director, things like that. I mean, I personally would like to see live action as little CG as possible. I would like CG people, man. You know why? Your people don't look real. These motherfuckers, they're giant heads. What are you going to get Brock Lesnar to play every role? Your dudes look like fake dudes. They look so awesome. There's not a lot of thick neck guys like that that have that level of charisma to hold up on over a two hour movie. It's not going to work. You got to go CGI, son. Get some little geek

98:42voices. Yeah, geek dudes who are crazy like Steve Buscemi type guys. And a wolf. They're getting closer with that. But, dude, the guys don't have to be that jacked, dude. But your guys are so jacked. In Gears of War, everyone's jacked. That's part of the cool thing about it. Vin Diesel, to your average person in pitch black, looks jacked. And he's 5'2 and was maybe, what, like 180? No, he's not 5'2. He's a lot bigger than that. When I've seen him, he was short. I think he's the lead 6 feet tall. He's friends with Rico Rodriguez, who used to be UFC heavyweight champion. I met him at one of the UFC's. I'm 5'8. I caught him in a bad angle, man. Way bigger than me. He seemed short when I saw him, man. Well, I'm short, but he's bigger than me. But the bottom line is, dude, it's more about charisma than it is about muscles. As long as you get charismatic actor— Incorrect. Look at the Hulk.

99:23You can't have a Lou Ferrigno doing the Hulk in 2010. We want that big fucking crazy CGI. That crazy Hulk that fucking smashes down the ground. Dude, there's a huge delta between Marcus Fenix and the Hulk. His fists are as big as pickup trucks. The Hulk's head is this big compared to his body. Marcus Fenix is jacked, but he's not insanely jacked. He's not even as jacked as the guy that comes to her muscle and fitness magazine. Yeah, he is. He's just as jacked And his head's extra super wide Because he's a double alpha The armor is part of it dude Yeah but his fucking head is giant And he's perfect Dude Why fuck around man Listen dude Get some super duper fucking CGI pimps on this shit Why? You can do anything man Monsters and everything It all exists in the same world You have insane shit Good luck doing that for 60 million Oh is it too expensive? Dude you know how much Avatar costs? I mean it's insane

100:09How much does it cost? Here's a better idea Close to 200 million plus Tron costs 150 million Here's a better idea then Your in-game footage movies in your video game are so good. You should have sitcoms with those guys going home after work, having a relationship. Like them at the bar, right? Fucking do King of Queens. Yeah, King of Queens. King of Queens. He gets home, takes 20 minutes to take off his armor. Right. Oh, God. Just do in-game footage stuff, like a sitcom with all your characters in it. And they're all family guy style. They're all friends. They hang out and get drunk. It was a terrible movie, but it was an interesting concept. Those moments you never get to see in a game, right? Yeah. Right. It was a terrible movie, but it was an interesting concept. There was a Bruce Willis movie where I think it was called Surrogate. Did you see it? Yeah, Surrogates, yeah. It was really recent.

100:50Yeah, where everybody wound up, they stayed at home, and then they had the younger version of them that all exists in the world. Yeah, younger, perfect version. He had this full head of hair and perfect skin. It was kind of weird. I don't know. They CGI'd him somehow. They're getting at the point where they can kind of track your body and then kind of CG over in such an amazing way, right? And, I mean, you look at what they're, for Tron, they're recreating kind of like Jeff Bridges Young, right? Jeff Bridges Young, yeah. I was saying looks a little bit more like Gary Oldman than Jeff Bridges. I haven't yet to see this. Yeah, look at all the posters. I'm dying to see the film, man. You look like Jeff Bridges to me. I thought it was pretty cool. Jeff Bridges gets cooler looking the older he gets. Have you seen the trailer for True Grit? Have you seen him naked? Yeah, that trailer looks awesome.

101:28His face is just... I'm talking about his face, man. He's probably scary from those... He's probably a mess, yeah. He looks so just like awesomely grizzled, right? He just got bruises. He doesn't know where the fuck this came from. things sagging. Why is this bleeding? It's got like skin tags. It's just breaking left and right. He's got cotton. Did you see the trailer for True Grit though? Yes, I did. I did. I saw Crazy Heart too. Yeah, that was good. Yeah, that was an interesting movie, man. It was kind of cool. I liked it. It's sad, right? It was sad, but it was good. I mean, there's the life lesson of being on the road that much, right? The loneliness, right? Well, it's also the partying, man. I've met a million people that have problems with partying, with alcohol especially, but with Coke with a bunch of different things. They're just people that are performers, they're performing all the time

102:12and they need to get up to perform. That's the respect I have. Like I've done like the European press tour for the games where it's five European cities in five days and that just wrecks me, right? I cannot imagine doing like 30 cities in 40 days, right? Like what it takes to actually pull that off and to sit there and to show up every night and to command a stadium. Like what does that do to you, right? Like how can you actually show up like that, right? And then at the end of every night, there's an infinite amount of partying or just girls lined up to just do whatever, right? Like in a different city and new people experience who all think you're God. Most of the time you really have to get back to your hotel because you've got to get up in the morning and five hours go to your flight. Those are the ones you're responsible for, right? Yeah. Well, the reality is those tours.

102:49Like I only did one tour like that. Most of the time what I do with comedy is I go out on the weekends and then I come home. I go out for a couple of days and then I come home. But a lot of guys will go out and they'll do like, you know, like I know Maz Jobrani we were talking about. He goes out and he goes out for like a couple of weeks, like three, four weeks. But one time we did this Maxim tour And we were gone for like a month Like a whole month of just constantly doing gigs And it's a fucking weird thing man It's not How many cities? I think we did 22 22 cities Do you have like a comedy bus? We both, we took a bus some places Most of the time we flew But it was brutal man It was weird All you're doing is traveling And then trying to get as much rest as possible And getting on stage and then trying to get as much rest as possible and traveling. You never get a full night's sleep. You're always flying.

103:39You're always eating terrible food. It's interesting. Even though it's fun, your comedy gets tight as fuck. Don't you love the waking up and going, where the fuck am I? All the time. Yeah, I still do that. I do that so often because I travel so much. I'll go get up to pee and I'll go, okay, where's this bathroom? Where am I? Do you know my trick? Leave the bathroom light on, close the door. Oh, that's a good move. Because when you don't know where the hell you are and you're, hey, you got to go, that thing will be like this light at the end of the tunnel. That's a good trick. That's a good trick. Lance Burton, motherfucker, you. I've had that happen. That's the worst feeling in the world. It's a weird thing, man. But it's a hotel room, you can just pee on the floor. Me and Joe had a scare at a hotel where we both thought we were going to die.

104:14We've talked about it before, but that really changed the whole thing for hotels for me. I actually fear half the hotel rooms we stay in. Always check. Always look out. Somebody knocks on the door, always look out the people and everything. No, it was a fire. Yeah. It wasn't. You know what the problem was? It was in an old hotel. It wouldn't have been nearly as much of a problem But there was a single file staircase And we were on the 15th I was on the 14th I think And you could only get one person On the staircase at a time And people were slow as fuck You probably felt that People were about to trample each other At that threshold right Where that instinct kicks in I'm the fucking head of the pack I was the one to be running on people's heads I was seconds away from sprinting through these fucking people People with slippers on man All ambient up You can tell they were fucked up from sleeping pills and shit.

105:04And they were moving slow as shit. And the problem is the announcement. Like the lady on the thing is like, please evacuate a building. The building, a fire has been detected. Please evacuate the building immediately. And what time did that happen? Like 3 in the morning? 4.30. 4.30. Especially not knowing where the hell you are. And it was like a robot voice that woke us up. It was like, attention, attention. But it wasn't. I hate your face. It was a woman. It was a woman talking because while she was talking, she was doing it so robotic. First of all, we're so foggy, and we're trying to figure out if this is really happening. It doesn't seem like how you would tell me that the fucking building's on fire. You'd be like, get out of here. Exactly. So this chick's there, a fire has been detected in the building. Please evacuate immediately. And I'm not sure if this is a robot. You sound like GLaDOS from Portal?

105:47I don't know if it's a robot or if it's a real person. Evacuate the building. Until I hear in the background, we've got to get these people out of here. Shut the fuck up. There was a guy in the back behind her that must have been behind the counter with her. It's like, we got to get these people out of here. And then I wonder if it was a buddy. Like, it was just a false alarm and he just decided to fuck with everybody. Like, no, no, no, it's on the 12th floor now. We need to get them out. I remember thinking that I was the same exact thing as Joe. Because we had talked about it afterwards. And I was thinking the same thing. Like, I am going to have to start throwing people out of my way. And then I looked at the windows, like in the stairways. It was like 12 floors. You've seen it when you get off a plane. It just amazes you at how slow people can actually physically move.

106:25Like, that plane that landed on the Hudson a couple years ago. Like, I would have just crapped my pants Get me off of this, right? So many people, dude, are barely taking care of their body Barely They're just barely, barely, barely You've been next to that guy on the plane, he gives you the extra elbow rest? Yeah, when he's leaking over under your seat I mean, we were thinking about that when we had Ralphie on the podcast I mean, Brian and Ralphie barely sat in a couch together Like, what happens if you're on Southwest and you gotta sit next to him? That's what he's saying, it's all about the lap band now Yeah, what the fuck is the lap band? Dude, it's everywhere, it's on every billboard on here They're so gluttonous That you know There was a picture From a long time ago The beginning of the 18th century Or the 19th century There was like a carnival And they had the fat man You know in the carnival

107:10You know like a sideshow freak The bearded woman The fat man And the fat man Wasn't nearly as big As Ralphie May This guy was a freak Back then Because people had To fucking work They had to move Around their bodies It's not just that It's moving But it's also The average American diet The average American diet Likes three flavors Fat, sugar, and salt and it's everywhere and you're trained we have an entire generation of kids that will not eat food without ketchup on it like they just won't they just have to have ketchup and ketchup chicken fingers and it's like dude heaven forbid you take them out like I don't know give them some fish or try a curry or something like just oh no and then you don't think about McDonald's get them young right yeah well the thing is about like this lap band thing what's really creepy about it is all you're doing is making the stomach smaller so that you get full quicker so all you have to do

107:54is just stop eating so much but it's not It's that simple. But it's hitting your dopamine receptors, and you've been trained for that. That's the only thing you know. We talk about, can I go to a restaurant and get a half portion, please? It's huge now, right? Right, but when you're filling up, and you have this lap band thing, so you have this tiny baby fake stomach now, and that little fake stomach's filling up, does your dopamine receptors go off? Do you get rewarded? Those are the chemicals that say I'm full, right? Do they work, though? Dude, it's on every billboard, and apparently the surgery is not invasive enough that that's to the point. It's going to be like you watch people get their lap band installed in the mall, like laser eye surgery, right? Like, yeah, do that dental whitening. Get your lap band while you're at it, right?

108:28But isn't it like a shitty fix to a problem that's obviously a lifestyle and diet problem? Somebody saw profit, right? Yeah, I mean, that's true. It's like the shake weight. Yeah, well. What's so weird, though, is when you talk to somebody that's insanely obese, they act like it's... I know, she's drunk. She's a drunk slut. Don't do that. She's not really drinking it. She's just licking the bottle. She licks the bottles. She's used to licking cylindrical things in your home. but it's like you talk to these people and they're always like I don't even know what the problem is, it's thyroids it's this, it's that, I'm on a diet but then you hear the other stories where like no dude, he went to Jack in the Box and pretty much ordered like 13 hamburgers I honestly think it's the same thing as the guy who just works out to the point where he looks like he's just comedic I think it's an addiction

109:13I honestly think it is yeah I guess so but that's a little more that's a totally different kind of craziness the fat craziness is just like they're just trying to die or something. You know, like I have a friend who just I know has like a massive food addiction. And just any time he's around fast food, he just he can't drive by a jack of the box. He's going to go in and because you're trained at a young age to enjoy those flavors also, man. And it's it's a stealth calorie thing. Also, but he's got to know. I mean, he knows he's fat. He talks about it. He's trying to do things and never has done anything. And, you know, it's if you know in your head that you should stop doing this and you have a problem. It's very strange that you can't rewire your brain To recognize that Like this is something I'm aware of now Now I just need to stop Once people get set on a certain path

110:01Then at a certain point they just go Breaking that cycle is the hardest thing But why does that exist? The big question is why is that in our system? Is it the same thing that allows us to get obsessed with things And get really good at things? Is it like a bastardization? How do we all know what hoarders are now? My grandma was a hoarder When she died my uncle wound up having to clean out her place I remember as a kid going to visit her, and she would have stacks of National Geographic five feet high with her goat paths we'd have to navigate. You go to the bathroom to pee, and her bathtub was used to have bags of clothes in it. She, like, never really – and we were always wondering why Grandma smelled sweaty. It's because she didn't wear deodorant, Joe, by the way. My grandmother was the same way. Your grandmother didn't wear deodorant? Clearly not. Why not?

110:42Maybe she just didn't think it was okay to plug up her armpits with stuff. I'm interested in this. Well, I wear deodorant. I just don't wear antiperspirant. Right. One thing is just smell. I was just giving a shit, man. stopping the... My grandmother was completely crazy. My grandmother, when she died, was exactly the same thing. They had to clean out my uncle. I think it's a control thing, partially, too, right? Have you ever watched Borders? Yes. Usually the husband... It's an obsession thing. The husband's some train wreck and something's gone south, so it's this one thing that they can control in their life, right? Maybe, but she was insane about a bunch of different things. But the whole house was just stacks of boxes and no one knew where anything else... And it's never anything valuable. It's usually just like... No, she had a lot of money that she didn't even probably know she had. Like $30,000 was stored

111:20in the house. Some ridiculous number. And they were broke. And it was really because she had grown up in the recession. And when you grow up in the recession, you're constantly worried that you're going to run out of money. So they would stash money in little spots. That's our parents and our grandparents who were always like, no, you're going to finish that? You're going to take that home. And this current generation is like, screw it. I don't need it. She had an aneurysm and she forgot where everything was. So she had all these fucking cans around the house that nobody found until she died. So it was like 12 years. They gave her 72 hours to live. She had a massive aneurysm and nobody found her for a long time. They came outside and she was just jacked. And so they brought her into the hospital and they were like, maybe she's got 72 hours, maybe. She lived 12 years. Wow. Sicilian peasant genes, bro. Yeah.

112:02Die hard, right? Karen rocks up hills for generation after generation. Josh Ortega, he wrote Gears 2 at one point where he was an apartment manager at an apartment and he got a phone call that this person had this strange fluid that they assumed it was a sewer leak above them or something like that. Oh, yeah, a dead person? Yeah. Yeah, he called in like, it was a cop or some sort of cleaner guy. He touched it, smelled it. He's like, you got death above you. The guy had died and bloated and actually soaked through. Oh, boy. And once they took the body out, Josh actually had to clean all that up. But you can't clean the ceiling. You have to cut it out. Yeah. Because it sucked through the fucking plaster. That smell does not go away, right? Yeah, it's in the wall board. It's leaking through the wall board. You got a body in your ceiling. Yeah. Would you live somewhere, like a place that somebody's been murdered at? No.

112:48You wouldn't? No, I don't think I would. And one of the reasons why I don't think I would is I really honestly believe that there's something to – I think it was Rupert Sheldrake who's an evolutionary biologist had this idea that everything has some sort of a memory. I believe it was his idea that memory doesn't just exist in the human mind but that objects and things have memory. And the world around you. And that's one reason why you can come into certain buildings and creepy shit has happened there. And people are fucking flakes, man. People will tell you they can read your palm or I sense you're a good person. There's a lot of weirdos that talk crazy spiritual talk. Especially in Southern California? For sure, right? Everybody out here wants to be special without working for it. But for sure, there's something about feelings. There's some feels that you get for some places.

113:33And so many people have gone into a house where someone's been murdered, and no one even has to tell them, and they feel terrible about the house. And the house is a nice house. There's been so many stories about something like that. They just thought the wallpaper was so bad that somebody had to murder somebody in there. Dude, you know what? I think ghosts aren't just... There aren't just potentially these things that exist around you. I think it's like a memory, right? As far as... There's this awesome game, System Shock 2. Did you ever play it? Yeah. And they used to... Basically, you had these implants that allowed you to see the memories of people right before they died. And you come up with... Wow. You come up with... It was a great storytelling thing. Because they were ghosts. You couldn't interfere with the cutscene. You couldn't shoot the guy before he did the thing.

114:08You just saw the last, like, eight seconds of his life play out. And he came up this elevator shaft. And this guy in front of you, he was standing there with a shotgun. He's like, I'm sorry. the space station's gone to hell, I can't deal with this. Ellie and the kids, forgive me, you see him put the gun in his mouth and it phases out. They use that throughout as an amazing storytelling technique. It's classic stuff, man. You brought it back to gaming right there. Did you see that? Mario Kart started that. With the ghost around the track? That's exactly what that was. You compete against yourself, right? Exactly. Now we're all figuring out how to basically have different type of events happen online. Like Angry Birds, you were saying. and now they're doing the holiday edition. Right. But they're handling it right, too, man. Those people didn't charge anything for that game,

114:51and then they've been updating it and patching it. Dude, I would have told you, if I finished Angry Birds and then there was a screen that came up and said, hey, you can have 30 more levels for $30, I would have been like, yes, yes, and my firstborn, please. They're treating it right, though. Is that how they do it? Yeah. How do they make money? See, they get it. They sold the game first. They're giving a lot away for free right now, but weren't you just saying that they have some $0.99 eagle that'll take out the whole level for you that they've been planning? Well, they have that, and they also had the Halloween pack, and then they also have this whole new Christmas pack. But you can't just play all the levels. It's an advent calendar, so you can only play one level on each day. Right. So you can't just burn through them all in one night,

115:28but it's such a well-designed game that you're just going to keep coming back. Right, totally. So simple. Perfect kind of iOS game. Definitely. Tap and swipe, baby. That's the way to go. Yeah. Everything's turning into applications, too. Have you noticed that? But nowadays, you're not paying money for magazines. You're not paying money for this and that. You're now having applications. Apps are just fancy programs, right? Right. That are just well-maintained. Smaller, well-maintained, personal. You're taking these apps with you on the road. A lot of people are concerned on the internet right now. It no longer is a series of linked websites. It's Facebook. It's these various kind of silos of information where it's all self-contained within that, right? The thing that, again, I like Facebook. I think it's cool. I like stalking people I went to high school with. It's cool.

116:14At the same time, the fact that every website I go to now has Facebook integrated now. I don't necessarily want somebody knowing I go to one website and accidentally click like. And then it broadcasts. And comments. You can make comments on a lot of websites. Oh, absolutely. And you do it through your Facebook. You log into your Facebook. I'm like, wait a minute. Where's my password going? How do you know what's going on here? How are you connecting? I'm allowing you to connect through my Facebook? Joe, here's a question for you. If you could have perfect memory day to day, you will remember everything when you were 10 years old every single day, but it had advertising in it. Would you do it? It already did, dude. That's fascinating. That's a very good question. So you can be like, I want to go from August 4th, 1974, 3 p.m. They're like, okay, this is sponsored by Gecko, who go to gecko.com.

117:05And you're like, fine, fine, whatever. And then you're like, bam. Now you have that day in front of you, like, on video. Oh, for sure. Because we're all in love with our memories, right? No doubt. Or that thought, at least. You would definitely. But then you would say, well, where is this stored? Is this non-local? No, no, no, no. It's like Divac Circuit City. Yeah, that's assuming you can't return it. There's a story on I can't pull up this shit on my own. They're able to surgically kind of remove certain memories from mice. They've started to come through some of that technology, like Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. So if you're a PTSD sufferer and you have traumatic events in Afghanistan, they can surgically remove the stuff that happened to you so that you can move on. Yeah, but what if there's some dude that you fucking hate in Afghanistan

117:42and all of a sudden you're in New York and he sees you like, you motherfucker, and you're like, I don't even know this dude. That's not cool. Then this guy would hate you and he'd be following you around and you're like, what is this dude's deal? Or you get out of a bad relationship and you killed everyone he knows, man. And he made me make the Iron Man outfit. Right, yeah, you get out of a bad relationship and meanwhile she still remembers you and she's fucking sharpening up her daggers. she's like traveling all over the country trying to find you she's got all sorts of outfits she's like blade and shit she's got a trench coat filled with weapons looking to take you out the fact that they're starting to make these breakthroughs there's a breakthrough in nanotechnology that happened I think it was about a year ago where they were able to figure out how to actually have cells that were bonded

118:25in an injection that would actually then melt a tumor that was a tumorous growth without any sort of radiation treatment or anything like that right? We're right in the verge right now, right? Of so many diseases and everything like that, it might actually happen within our lifetimes. And forget about your kids. And it's not just happening in technology. It's happening in space. Like all the shit that they're finding out about space as well. Have you been following any of the astronauts in the International Space Station on Twitter? No. There's that guy. Yeah, a couple of them. Dig up his name. He's been just tweeting photos of amazing sunsets from space from the space station. Somehow they hooked up, he's an internet connection up there, and he has 300,000 followers on Twitter. They have Wi-Fi in space. He does, man. He's like, hey, look at this. It's ridiculous. Look at this. His name's Sochi Naguchi.

119:11It's at astro underscore S-O-I-C-H-I. He's got 300,000 followers, and he's like, hey, look, we're taking off to go to the space station. And he's just got this following, and he's making space travel cool again, right? Whereas you joke about kids who want to be MMA fighters and video game designers, and now this guy's doing that for the job, right? Which I think is really cool. What are you writing awesome space porn Yeah I actually do follow that guy I have seen some of his cool stuff I forgot I follow so many people I forgot They compile it on the Huffington Post once in a while You just look at it Just scroll through Just like this is amazing There's so many things that are just so crazy That are not even understood about this world The whole like arsenic based life form stuff They came out with recently Yeah you know what they found out That that was bad science Really? Yeah that was very poorly written

119:53And that NASA rushed to try to get this press conference Or this press release out there before it got really reviewed by all the right people. And there's a ton of criticism all over the Internet that what they did was they drew some really unscientific conclusions and kind of it's not disproven completely, but it's not proven either. It's not ready yet. It's kind of like the end of Contact where they're not really sure if Jodie Foster really went to the other world. There's some nutty shit going on, man. Have you heard about this new object that they found outside of Pluto that's Jupiter-sized? Really? Just out of nowhere? way the fuck out there like probably as far or more from uh jupiter as we are from jupiter or excuse me from pluto rather as we are from pluto and it's outside of pluto and it's gigantic yeah

120:40they don't know what it is they have no idea where it is exactly but they know there's something out there they're pretty sure well i know you've probably talked about this in your because you're big on aliens the whole idea what stephen hawking was saying like you know if aliens actually find us first then it's going to be a situation where we're the native americans and then it's everybody else coming over from Europe, and that didn't turn out very well. Or we're monkeys. We're not even Native Americans, man. Native Americans were at least human. If something is a million years more advanced than us, it's going to be like us collecting bugs. Like I said, your kids are probably going to live to be 150 plus. Probably. If not you. If not you. Who knows, man? Who knows what the fuck is going on? The breakthroughs they're coming up with every fucking day. Would you stress?

121:22Maybe you'll just kick back and go Jay-Z style once you compile all your money? Yeah, that's a problem. Because the developers, the people who have the money are the people who put up the money. And those are the people that make all the money. Is that what's going on? And that it's much harder for the developers to go Jay-Z style? It is. Yeah. Well, you get to the point where it's so hard for one person to really break out and do his own thing, especially in the AAA space. Because you're seeing where used games and rentals are eating up so much of the market that for somebody to spend millions and millions of dollars to make a game and then to actually launch it with all the marketing is a huge risk. And so a lot of people are running to mobile. They're running to all these different kind of places, right? But I would think that at a certain level, like your level,

122:03when you have a certain reputation behind you, that it might be easier for a bunch of people to come to you and say, listen, man, you're a proven commodity. Why don't you get your team, and we'll give you guys a cut of the publishing. Hypothetically, I knew at an early age that by doing the PR and being able to have a little bit of a theater background and go on stage, this stuff would get me a certain amount of leverage. And then by working with talented people and making great games, I have built a brand for myself. So, hypothetically, I could probably go and knock on a lot of publishers' door tomorrow and be like, just give me a bunch of money, let me build a team, do whatever I want. The problem is Epic takes good care of me, and I work with everybody, and I get to do the shit I want, and I've got a great setup. So, why fuck with it for something that may or may not work out, right?

122:43That explosion was Brian fucking around in the background. What do you think? Do you think that the world's coming to an end? What do you think the current lifespan of the consoles are? Like, until the new ones are released? For the first time ever in video games, we've just gotten past the five-year life cycle. Yeah. It seems like there's no reason yet, is there? Well, I think for a lot of people, graphics are, quote, good enough. Yeah. Right? And if you were to put something new on TV that's what is the current state-of-the-art versus the latest PlayStation Xbox game, would it pass the mom test? Would your mom look at that and go, that looks amazing compared to that? Maybe, maybe not. Give it a couple years, yes. Right? So right now, maybe it's good enough. You know, you have all the motion controls and everything like that that can kind of keep everybody occupied. What do you think the next thing is?

123:22What do you think is just going to be faster? bigger or do you think there's going to be the 3D speaking personally my personal opinion fast as hell avatar style avatar level of graphics something that is always connected to the internet is it ever going to come to a time where that's easier to do than it is now technology, building it, creating it will there be tools that will be so effective there's ways that you can procedurally create content like Will Wright did Spore where a lot of the textures were automatically created so he figured out what an algorithm would be for grass and wood and things like that. And there's a huge, not a huge, but there's a subset of people that are working that technology. Like, okay, just hit a button and just generate 50 types of wood for me so we don't actually have to build it, right? Then you get to the point where there's a certain library of,

124:04do I really need to remodel a couch for the 8 billionth time? Like, work smarter, not harder, right? Figure out ways to use modular architecture. Do you really need 50 columns of different types or can you just spit them all out, right? The key is going to be figuring out, you know, like how to craft that within a certain financial model. That's the billion-dollar question. How do you provide AAA content that makes sense, right? How do you remain profitable? Will there eventually, you think, be software that makes it easy, like the average person can create games? That's what we do. That's half of our business. You could go to udk.com and download the same exact stuff we use to build our games. Really? For free. So anybody can, for free, go and take your technology and make their own game? They can.

124:43The problem is, of course, if you start making money with it, then you have to talk to us about officially licensing it. Wow. That's pretty fucking dope. That's how it works. I actually never really knew that. But the reason why this is smart is because you have so many college campuses out there that want to find a solution. How do we train college kids to learn how to use this technology? But how hard is it? How hard is your builder? Is it a hard builder? I would have fucking killed for these tools when I was 17. Yes. They're not – making game is hard, right? You still have to know what to do. But if I was myself, 17, I would have been able to do such crazy shit. I had to learn Visual Basic and get a programmer. The programmer I did Jazz Jackrabbit with back in the day is the guy who works on Killzone now. Wow. It's just one of those weird Professor X Magneto type situations. He's a cool guy.

125:24Great Dutch dude. You can just go download it now and start building a game. I get these kids that tweet me all the time. How do we get in the business? Go to UDK, download it, and start building something. Figure out what you're good at and work your ass off and be better than everybody else. Have you been playing that Mindshaft game? That was a good game. Holy Freudian. What a slip there, Brian. What the fuck is wrong with you, son? There's this game called Big Black Dog. King Kong. It was great. It's Minecraft, right? So have you been playing that at all? Yeah, I heard that. It's the first PC game I paid money for in years. Really? All right, so what is that? We almost got through this whole episode without anybody talking about Big Black Dicks. Wow. I apologize. That was a horrible slip. It was like one of those where it's Waldo. He brought up Big Black Dicks, though. It's almost like it's impossible.

126:08It's embedded into our system. Yeah. We attract dick talk. Weave through our DNA. Especially the black kind. So is it Mindshaft? Okay, I'm going to go from Big Black Cox to Minecraft. Minecraft. It's not even Shaft. So it's this game, Joe. This kid decided to make this game out of his garage. And he's making, God, I don't even know the numbers. He's making money hand over fist. And it's basically a world where you initially start off and you can build cubes of different materials in front of you and then build anything you want, basically. So imagine building 3D pixels. There's people who have built the earth in this game, right? Right. And then there's this mode where nighttime comes and you have to eventually figure out how to survive your first night and start building like a workbench and build all these different things. And it starts getting deeper and deeper.

126:52I haven't gotten too deep into it, but it's become this kind of phenomenon. He's talking to Valve about doing something with it. And what you see right now is these kind of little micro developers who are having success, right? The guy who did Braid, Jonathan Blow. You have the team who made Portal was like a handful of kids who made an independent game that then they started working with Valve, right? The guy who did Limbo, the team who did Limbo, they were at the Independent Games Festival. We saw that and we're like, this game is great. And then every time I love supporting these indie kids because you never know like what's going to come out of them because they can often take risks that we can't. Right. Because they're in their garage and they're building it. How hard would it be for someone to make a movie with your game engine? Pretty easy. Really? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Whoa. They call it machinima.

127:31Oh, yeah, machinima. Yeah, I'm going to the awards ceremony. What do they call it? Spell that? I always called it machinima, but I don't know how. You know, it's the art of machinima. It's the art of a virtual camera, right? M-A-C-H-I machinima? A-S-S-L-I-T. I've seen some old ones done with old game engines that looked really hokey. That's good. But the game engines of today, they're so sophisticated. Well, yeah, that was what Red vs. Blue was, right? That was that whole web series that became huge. These guys took the Halo characters, and they just made them talk in these incredibly funny situations. That's why you need to have a sitcom of your characters having wives and stuff in that form. We will absolutely do that in our spare time. Yes. No, no. You just hire two high school kids. It's made our iPhone efforts. and you hire two high school kids to do it and you give them fucking $10 a week.

128:17They'll have the marine guys pulling their assholes apart in the goatee pose. That's the beauty of so many of those internet memes is I could sit there eating a giant bowl of cereal and just watch it and not even care because it's been sent to you so many times. That's true. And that's the other thing. We were talking about kids getting freaked out by all the input that they have today. They're just going to get desensitized a little quicker than us. If you can handle it, kids can handle it. It's just going to be tricky. It's trickier in the beginning But I will tell you Bringing it full circle Like every time I see real life Like you know Violence in front of me I see somebody get hit at a bar It makes me nauseous Yeah Me too It does My problem is I'm so used to it Right I see people get beat up And it's so normal My wife cut her head And she opened up The back of her car You know the hood And banged her head on it

129:02Accidentally Did you see the skull? Bled No it wasn't that bad But it started bleeding Did I talk about this already? No It started bleeding And I just looked at it I'm like eh it's a little cut You know for her is like this traumatic thing. Yeah. And I'm like, they're not even gonna stop this fight. This is nothing. She didn't even tap out. This is ridiculous. This is barely a cut. This is only an inch long. Facial wounds bleed a lot. I'm like thinking, shit, am I gonna have to take her to the hospital for this little baby cut? Is she gonna freak out or is she gonna let me stick like crazy glue in there and glue it together? Because that's what I would do. If it was my head, I'd be like, just drop some crazy glue in there and squeeze that shit right here, dude. That's what they do, man. Quit crying, you pansy. Cuts, when you get cuts, they put crazy glue on it I'm so used to dudes getting punched in the face.

129:44Well, you have that kind of fighting upbringing. Constantly. Dude, again, it comes back to Boston. There's that, but there's also working for the UFC for over 1,000 fights, being three feet away from these murderers, these fucking trained killers, punting each other in the head. I've seen so many dudes just get fucking flatlined. What's the lifespan of a fighter with the amount of head damage or anything? That's a good question. I don't think we know. I'm not saying lifespan. I'm saying as far as how long can he actually fight before it starts to become... Have you seen fighters that it becomes like a visible issue? Yes. Like you can start to see things get a little off? I have seen guys go from being absolutely normal to absolutely not normal. Yeah. Absolutely normal to frightening. I've seen that. I've seen the full spectrum. Yeah. It's very shocking.

130:24And I've seen also guys like Randy Couture who get out of it with not a single problem. And Randy is super lucid. You talk to him. He's very intelligent, very aware. And he's been knocked out a couple of times. He's recognized how to build a brand though, right? Well, it's also he's a smart guy. He doesn't take unnecessary punishment. Some guys, they try to be more exciting, so they'll take unnecessary punishment. They won't fight strategically. They'll fight in an aggressive style in an attempt to overwhelm this person with their physicality. And when you do that, it makes for exciting fights for the fans, but it's very dangerous for you. It's very dangerous for your long-term mental health. That's a management issue. You'd assume fighters have their managers who kind of advise them on these. Impossible. You can't tell a guy what to do. There's no way. He's not going to listen to you.

131:11If he's the guy who wears his underwear when he gets in that fucking cage and they shut that door, he's not going to listen. Fighters will take direction as far as coaching. They'll take direction as far as technique. They'll take direction as far as they have a guy that they really trust and he raises him correctly and trains him to be a good fighter. They'll go out there with a healthy respect for the art form and they'll go out there and do it right. But if you get a guy and that's how he develops, he develops, this is his style, and then you try to coach him, it's like, good luck. Can't teach you new tricks. You see some fighters and all they want to do is brawl And they brawl every fight And then you see other fighters where they skillfully avoid strikes Take the guy down, strangle him You never see, very rarely I should say, I wouldn't say never

131:51You very rarely see someone go from being the meathead brawler To being the super intelligent Ultra skilled technician That gets through a fight and takes no damage Yeah, I imagine you want to be surgical about it, right? You should, yeah, well you should treat it like what it is It's a martial art and it's a game And the game is do punishment without getting punishment done to you. Be superior in every single aspect of the game. Be able to force your will on that person. That's the intelligent part about it. But it's also when you get fight of the night bonuses and you want to make the crowd cheer. Get that adrenaline going. Yeah, and a lot of guys love to say they finish fights, they go out there and they put it on the line and it does make for a more exciting fight. That's absolutely true. But I had this exact conversation with a guy named John Donaher who's this pretty infamous jiu-jitsu instructor.

132:38really super, super smart guy. And he and I both agreed that the most important thing is, even though it's good to be exciting as a fighter, it's good to please the crowd and it makes the sport more popular and everything, I absolutely agree with that too. But the most important thing is to be very skilled and to be the most skilled and do the exact right thing that you're supposed to be doing in order to apply damage but take little in return. And when you take unnecessary risks and you do something in an unsmart manner, you're degrading your art. You're watering down your purpose. You're doing something that's not the optimal way to do it. It's not the artistic way to do it. You're not fighting it correctly. It's like riding a wave. When you get off that wave, what do you want to do? You want to face plant to the rocks? Of course not. No, you want to ride that bitch and be perfect.

133:28That's the way to do it. I can't speak of it, man. It's just a world that's had my own. So alien. it's alien to me and I've done martial arts my whole life but I've never fought in the UFC and being around over at least a thousand fights but we were talking about guys being used to trauma I'm way too used to trauma it's so normal for me I've been at bars where dudes are beating the fuck out of each other I'm like these guys hit each other keep your hands up dude I'm a fucking pussy that's the irony we do these games with these badass guys and they're just tearing arms off and beat people to death that you see anything in real life and it's just like, oh, Jesus, I'm getting sick, right? Well, that's a good question, man. So what do you think about this whole debate? I think it's pretty silly and kind of not well thought out, this idea that violent games make people violent. I don't think that's true.

134:20I think whatever happened to Crazy, first and foremost, right? It's a Chris Rock's kind of thing about it. I honestly think it's a situation that they relieve more stress than they cause. Yeah. Like it's a cathartic thing. And there's a certain sick type of mind that's drawn to a certain type of entertainment that was just predisposed to that, right? Yeah, and that person's sick, period. Yeah. So you're not going to get someone. It's always the one of Violent Games or Hitler playing, right? That kind of thing, right? It's just like, dude, I mean. Right. We cannot create a society based upon the lowest common denominator of entertainment. Thank you. Right? Or anything. Or anything. There's entertainment for kids. There's entertainment for adults. And that's the way the world works. I mean. It should be that way with everything, access to information, propaganda.

135:02You can't program society for the lowest common denominator. And that's what you're doing. If you're not allowing intelligent people who are not going to be affected, if you're trying to restrict their access to things like video games. And I personally think the market will bear what the market will bear. Look at what we do with the stylized violence of these big giant guys in space armor ripping the arms off lizard men. If there's a game about a guy on Flatbush Avenue with a Yankees hat pulling off the arm of somebody else with a Red Sox hat, and it was depicted really like, it'd be kind of like, eh. But then the violence in Grand Theft Auto, on the other hand, plays very well because it's done within the context of the story or it's done comedically where you're running over a hooker or something like that, right? It's all, if people are offended by it, they're not going to buy it.

135:44Okay, but what if the government steps in? I mean, there's been many times where there's been talk about legislating the content of video games and making sure that there's rules, what you can and can't do. There are already rules, though. That's the thing. That's what people forget, is the fact that there's... Well, there's a rating system. There's a rating system. There's a parental restrictions on the consoles, which are very easy to set. And there's also the fact that the games cost a certain amount of money in order to get access to. There's multiple gateways there that are in place. And on top of all of that, there is, of course, the parenting issue. But is there the situation like there is with movies where they tell you, hey, you can't release this unless you cut out a bunch of shit, or it's going to be like X-rated? It is reviewed, right? Right. It is viewed by the... Is there an NC-17?

136:26or something? You can get an adults-only rating, but it's a kiss of death, much like the NC-17, whereas you're not going to be in Walmart. You're not going to be in... Well, Mass Effect isn't that at Walmart? Mass Effect or whatever, the one with the prostitution and the nudity, and that was... Was it Mass Effect? Mass Effect did have some sex-type quests in it, but there was... I don't think there was prostitution in any Mass Effect. No. It's kind of amazing that you can have chainsaws in the end of your gun where you can cut people in half, but you can't fuck. Right. Well, that's America. That's amazing, though. Like... Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I think or something like that. You think? All right. All right, we're back? Okay. Anyway. It's rough being this cat. We're going to have to split this up. This audio is split up. I'll put it together. This is the end. You're a master.

140:07You know what the fuck you're doing. This is the end. Dum, dum, dum, dum. My only friend. The end. Thank you. The real Cliffy B on Twitter. Thank you very much, man. It was a lot of fun. Thanks for having me. Like I was saying before we cut off, we covered everything, man. We covered the universe. We covered video game development. We covered greedy cunts, black cocks, Brian's whore dog. What else? Anything else? I'm sorry about my horror dog What else? Angry Birds Angry Birds The universe The galaxy Fighting Bleeding Technology Whiskey Leaks Superglue And dude Come to town once more than every Once every five years It's tough to get to Raleigh Charlotte dude Charlotte It's tough to get to Raleigh Yeah Well maybe I'll do Charlie Goodnights again Yeah I haven't done that in a long time Yeah but you know what The problem is Too many goddamn hecklers That's why I stopped going there There's too many Fucking hecklers

140:53You can always handle them Dude it was brutal The last time I was there was just people talking. Just do matinee shows. I mean, this is a fun club, though. Great owners, too. Anyway, ladies and gentlemen, that's it. Thank you very much, Cliffy B. Fleshlight. Yes, thank you. Thank you to the Fleshlight for sponsoring the show. You can go to fleshlight.com. And if you go to joerogan.net, there's a link that takes you to fleshlight.com. And you type in the keyword Rogan, the promo code, and you get 15% off. And then you can beat off like a fucking savage, like a man alone in the ocean trying to figure out how to get by. All you got is cans of dried fish and some rainwater that you've collected and a flashlight. Get enough spit. And you're hallucinating because your fucking skin is getting cooked off by the sun. You ain't got no sunscreen, stupid. Your dog is just walking all over me. So rude.

141:42That's the end of the show, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you very much. Next week, it looks like we're probably going to get Greg Fitzsimmons. He wants to go on. Oh, cool. And who knows what? We still got to get Brian Posey. I still got to call Bobby Lee. We got a lot of shit happening, people. Thank you very much for tuning in, and we appreciate all the positive energy and all the support and all the – I appreciate all the people appreciating the podcast. It's awesome. And all the people on Twitter and Facebook and all you people out there sucking cock in the streets. Good for you. Good for you. Good for you. WikiLeaks, baby. She's going to have to make up. This song is going to be interesting. Good.