Hugo Martin

00:00Two, one, what's up dude? How are ya? Good, how are you? First of all, the game looks fucking... Tell everybody who you are and what you do. My name is Hugo Martin and I'm the game director on Doom Eternal. Oh no! The dragon is back in. Let me tell you something, folks. Hugo just played some of Doom Eternal. He showed us the game and ran through some of the first level. Holy fuck. God damn, it's so next level. It's so next level. Graphics, it's so next... Everything about it. Like the weapons, the demons, the way you kill them. It's the most violent thing I've ever seen in my life. It's awesome. It's so ridiculous. But it seems like it's okay because it's violence against demons. Yeah, totally. And we work hard on that. There's no cursing. I have three kids. There's no cursing. There's no sex. I do want it to be something that my nine-year-old could play.

00:50Don't you think it's kind of crazy that you could rip people's heads off, you could shove their arm down their throat, you could cut them in half? That's fine. Just don't use any of those naughty words, kids. Yes, because I was joking with something the other day. It's like when I'm with my kids, like he's not going to go up to somebody and like glory kill them. But when someone says – Explain what a glory kill is because it sounds too much like glory hole and people are going to get really confused. So in the game when you damage a demon enough, they will glow with like a shader on them. And that means you can go in to do a melee finisher basically, which is like a melee attack. And you'll get health from it. And there are these really, really cool animations. Melee we should explain is like with your own hands. Yes rip them apart or cut them in half with a sword or a chainsaw

01:32Yes, and so crazy like when my kids see that they're not gonna do that But when they hear someone use the f-word they're like oh I could use that in everyday life And and that sucks so very interesting rationalization. I'm not buying it But the game is awesome It'll be cool if you had an R-rated mode that you had to like Entering your security number social security number or something it'll unlock it. It shows you're over 21 That would be funny. That would be awesome. Or over 18. I feel like over 18. Yeah. And then you just hire your brother. Dude, get in here. I'll give you five bucks. I'll mock this pitch. That would be awesome. It's cartoonish violence, though. You could see it. It's very much like a cartoon. Yeah. And again, you're killing monsters. It's like Walking Dead when they spike them in the head. You can't do that to a person on TV, but you could do it to a zombie. And they're demons from hell.

02:18You're doing God's work. You have to. Yes, that's right. You have to. And we should explain that Doom was one of the very first 3D games. So it was Castle Wolfenstein, right? That was like the first one with id Software. We've had Carmack in before. He's no longer with id Software. But who is? Is Willett still there? No, he's not there anymore either. God damn it. What about Hollingshead? No. What the fuck, bro? How's it id Software? Marty Stratton. Change the name. You got a whole bunch of new people running it. Listen, whoever's running it, they're doing an amazing job because that game looks sick and I'm scared. I'm scared I'm going to get sucked into it. It's awesome. First of all, the gameplay and then just the beginning sequence, the in-game whole sequence, looks like a CGI movie. It doesn't look like gameplay.

03:04Remember when we used to play games and you used to have that opening scene that was a video and then it would go to the game and the game was crude? This game is exactly like the opening scene, which is so crazy. No pre-rendered, that everything, those are the in-game assets. That's how good they are. The team is like insane. The guys are true artists, craftsmen, you know, like they just go crazy on the details. And when you zoom in with the camera for the cinematics, they completely hold up the rigging. Like it's like a feature film. It's nuts. Are you guys there? There it is right now. Let's play the let's play the the old trailer. This is the old trailer. Yeah, this trailer is good. Just play it for people. This is humanity's chance to repent. Against all the evil that hell can come true. And if you're just listening, you gotta see this on YouTube.

04:01And if you're like, I'm a grown-up, I don't have time for this shit, I have an IRA and a 401k and I have kids. Me too, bitch. Me too. Saving your people will not bring you peace. Only make the burden you carry worse. For millennia, we have survived. Made others' sacrifice in the name of our prosperity. Who are you, a human, to defy our traditions? Yes. Now, if you're just listening, this is just annoying music and noise. But if you're watching, it looks fucking sick. Watch this. Oh. And then it goes, bam, right in the head. Angels. Oh, there's angels too? Oh, Jesus. Oh, shit. So he's like the boss demon? Yeah. Whoa. Goddamn, this looks good. Doom Eternal. It looks off. I anticipate a massive waste of time for people. 320, so that's when it comes out? Yeah. What's that, nine days from now? Yes. Wow. That guy, if you're Bruce Lee, that is your Chuck Norris. Oh. Yeah, and you guys are going to.

05:45And the whole scene, actually, when you meet him, which is a little clip from that, it's really inspired by that scene. Is it Enter the Dragon or Return of the Dragon when he fights Chuck Norris? I think it's Enter the Dragon. Yes. I think. You know, like when they square off in the Coliseum. Yes. He comes out and he says some badass shit And you look at him Yeah, that's a fucking great scene That is a great scene Way of the dragon Or for the Star Wars fans We say it's like you're Obi-Wan And that's your Darth Maul I like the first It feels like I don't know, Star Wars has become too Disneyfied It doesn't really sync up with that That fight is badass though Between Obi-Wan and Darth Maul Yes. Oh man, it's awesome. Yeah, it's pretty bad. Yeah, that's before I went to shit You know the fights in the prequels were amazing. Yeah, they were really good. Yes, I've watched the one against Obi-Wan and

06:41Anakin like a million times like I love that one It's so good like when they and the lava and shit and they just go off on each other and like it's a mate George Described it in an interview that it would be like you would be seeing Jedi at their peak that that really in the first three Star Wars films They were not at their peak and then in the prequels you would see them in their prime, you know like like Hickson in his prime So like right it that's what's so cool about that fight. They're just going off on each other. It's amazing Yeah Well, what you guys have done is create something that's gonna ruin people's lives I hope you're really excited about massive waste of time I mean we were talking before the show about video games and the addictive quality of video games I have a real problem. I just can't play them that much

07:22Yes, I can dip my toe in every now and then and then I shake my head and I got to go running or something Because otherwise it'll get the grip on me yes, they're too fun Like there's no movie that you're gonna watch it gives you the kind of engagement that your video game does because you're like in the movie Yes And it looks like a fucking movie now and you see what the glory kills like you are your own fight Choreographer if you're sick of breaking the arm and shoving it in his head then swing around from behind and cut him in half You know like do anything you want It's awesome now as far as multiplayer because I'm not really into playing games the game game I'm into multiplayer so you I promise if you play the single player What is unique about our single player is that it will give you the same buzz that a multiplayer will give you because your opponents

08:04This time are the AI and that opening level that's white belts. You're you're messing with like easy dudes The later on it will continue to level up and as you saw like that guy that comes out with the axe like again He is he is as tough as you are so You will get the same feeling from the single player that you do from a multiplayer That's not really possible. See, because what I like is duels. I like, like, like in Quake Champions, I like playing duels. You know, that's what's fun for me. Like one-on-one, like me and Jamie would get barbecued and we'd come here and we'd play for hours. Just one-on-one, you run around the map and collect your rocket launchers and your ammo and armor and shit and just fuck each other up. We have a multiplayer called Battle Mode that is fucking awesome. Like, it's really, really good. And then, um... Is it like Quake multiplayer? Like, same kind of deal?

08:50No, it's different. It's very unique. The last multiplayer we made was not super well-received. It was a really competent, good multiplayer. What was that? I was just Doom 2016's multiplayer experience. But it really wasn't innovative enough. Fans wanted to see us do something new. So we basically took the single-player experience, that combat loop that you'll master, and then we give you a way to do it with your friends. It's a 2v1, so it would be two of you guys versus one guy gets to be the slayer with all the guns. And it's really, really cool. And then there's Invasion. So, like, you'll play the single-player campaign, and then someone can become a demon. Like, Jamie could become a demon and then invade you while you're playing, and you won't know where he is, and he'll just come out and try to fuck with you. Like, it's really cool. But is there any one-on-one multiplayer?

09:33Invasion's kind of one-on-one, but battle mode, the closest we come to one-on-one is 2v1. Oh, okay. That's weird. Why'd you decide two versus one instead of one versus one? It's just unique, you know? It's the balance there. No one demon can stand against the Slayer. You know, the Doom guy is all powerful. He's got all these, you know, he's right here. He's got all the guns and the mods. He's got eight guns. Why are his bicep exposed? It seems like a vulnerability. It's like a kind of... He's a badass. Pretty much. Well, if someone comes along and cuts his fucking arm off, it seems like that's a good spot to hit. His arms are like trees. Whatever, they're made out of jelly donuts. They're very large. They're very large. They're right through that shit. They are so big that in one scene he raises like a sword and the bicep just like is absurdly huge. But, yeah. That's cute, but it's still made out of meat.

10:19That's true. That's true. I forgot what I was saying. But, yes, you can compete. Battle mode is really good. You really like it. Yeah, but why don't you have a one-on-one? Because we just, it just didn't work out that way. Do you anticipate anything like that in the future? Like an add-on? You never know. Like, certainly, we'll see. But we're really, really proud of this. Like, I think what you want to do is you got to innovate. If you want to make something that's really going to engage people like that, like the whole point is to like give them something to master that they've never seen before. Because if you're just asking me to master a new version of a thing that I already mastered, sure, a lot of people would appreciate that. But you're not really going to capture like a large audience. So we really created something that was completely unique. And so we're excited.

11:05Now, is there going to be a death match mode where like all of us can get in a room and fuck each other up? No. Jesus Christ, Hugo. What are you doing? We have quick champions for that. I know, but we already played quick champions. I want to play that. I'm going to use those weapons. Play with that guy. Is this the multiplayer, Jamie? This is the multiplayer. Jesus Christ, looks crazy. It is nuts. It's kind of based on a couple of core pillars of like we needed something that had a lot of drama. We wanted something that had a lot of pacing, like variations in pacing in the match, and something with deep strategy. So and and was primarily innovative like unlike anything any anything anybody had played before and was from like It's a multiplayer for people who love doom eternal So we play the doom eternal single player. You'll you'll like this right it looks so incredible man

11:53It's fucking awesome. The graphics are so off the charts. I just want to play this right now I know I'm looking at this video Jamie's playing Showing the video of this guy playing and it's just it looks incredible So he's the slayer. You're seeing through the slayer right now, and those two demons that he's shooting with the numbers coming out of them, those are the other guys. Now, I don't think most people understand the incredible amount of work that's involved in creating one of these things. Yes. When did you guys start on this? About four years ago. So it's been four years of steady work to make something like this happen. And in nine days, we're going to give it to the world. Release it. Yes. Give birth. I'm shaking. Are you? Oh, my God. I'm so nervous. They just canceled E3. Yes, everyone's scared the goddamn corona virus. I know my wife says I'm gonna be in quarantine at the house for two weeks

12:42When I come here I don't think it needs to be two weeks. I think it's four days. You start showing look at your sniffling already I'm just nervous psychosomatic They say that it's four days and you start exhibiting symptoms So okay, I coughed at the airport and people looked at me like I've it was I felt almost wanted to apologize I was just clearing my throat and I didn't cover my mouth and everybody was like Yeah, it was I know everybody's on edge Yeah, meanwhile the comedy store was packed last night dude. We went to PAX East last week with the fans Hunt like lines of fans and the beginning everybody was touching elbows that lasted like 20 minutes and we were just high-fiving and Hugging and stuff. I was at the store last night a couple guys were trying to give you knuckles and yeah I was like get the fuck out of here. It's just we all go down together

13:22Well, they say I didn't watch that show yet with that guy that you had but 50 and up or something or like it's the real problem is people with respiratory issues People who are overweight and and people who are old those are those are the real problems Unhealthy people. That's the real issue. That's gonna be the real issue Although Sam Harris did know a guy who's a skier who is 50 who is apparently very healthy and very fit And he is now on a ventilator and he was in Italy. I don't know the specifics, you know sometimes Look, I've got the flu before and I'm sure you have as well and sometimes what happens is you're worn down from travel You're worn down maybe from drinking you warm down from too much exercise and then it gets you and then if you're not Like and this is just the common cold and apparently the common cold is a type of corona virus

14:13I don't know Google that make sure that's true, but I'm pretty I was reading up on corona viruses last night I was like what like so SARS is a type of corona virus is this just here now? Forever like this is a part of the world like corona question Question. Well, Michael Osterholm, who wrote this book Deadliest Enemy and who was on on Tuesday on the podcast Tuesday, he opened up a lot of people's eyes as to like what what the issue is and what what you can do to prevent it. But those wet markets that they have in China are just bananas, man, with the fucking bats on the tables. And coronavirus are large family viruses that cause illnesses ranging from the common cold to more severe diseases such as MERS or SARS. A novel coronavirus is a new strain that has not been previously identified in humans. So zoonotic or zoonotic, meaning they're transmitted between animals and people.

15:14So what's happening is these fucking wet markets, he was detailing how they have chickens that are in one cage and civets that are above the chickens and the civets are shitting on the chickens and the chickens are eating the civet shit. Oh my goodness. It's like it's just a perfect environment to create a disease that's going to jump from one species to the next. That is scary. Yeah. And he's like, and many of them have jumped to humans. I mean, all the major, whether it's avian flu, that's from birds, swine flu, obviously from pigs. They jump from farm animals or from these wet markets to people. Yeah, and they're not going to stop those wet markets. So it's like, I mean, that's how people buy their food, which is just crazy. Have you ever seen the videos and pictures of what they look like over there? No, that seems scary, though. What do you think your game is scary?

15:59Want to see what a bat looks like when it's laid out on a table? Apparently, bats are like a common thing to eat. And bro when you see what a bat looks like with its mouth open it looks like it belongs in your game That would be good good reference We were looking at pictures of them yesterday and they have a table laid out and then even not just on the raw concrete bats Laid out with their mouth open. They look cartoonish. They don't even look real and they have no wings Yeah, Jamie's oh my god and over there Look how big these bats these are bats without wings. I want to see. Holy shit. Holy shit, dude That looks like a dog. They do look like dogs. Those are dogs. Those might be dogs Oh, those are dogs, bro. Those are dogs. Jesus Christ. Those are dogs. Oh, those are bats. So those are bats. So look at the teeth on the bats. Yeah, that's really... Look at that.

16:42Look at how they all have their mouths wide open like they're trying to bite you. Like they die trying to kill you. And they're going to cook those? Yes. That is how this disease got started. Look at that guy smoking cigarettes. And he's smoking. Go back to him again. Let me see a big picture of him. He's triple stacking the bad behavior. Stacks of bats smoking cigarettes like they're eating bats. That's crazy. It's just nuts man But this is what happens. We'll see look at these chickens stacked on top of each other When you have a billion people and look at that guy sleeping on top of that That's that that should be in our game actually Yeah, like if you're hungry eat a bat you could glory kill that thing and get health. That would be good Apparently SARS came from bats as well So don't eat bats kids. I won't but they have to because they're starving

17:28I mean, that's one of the things that China's doing what they have to do. There's too many people, not enough food, and a lot of what they're eating is just we wouldn't imagine eating it. Are you not traveling because of this? I'm not changing shit. Yeah, my wife asked me a lot. She was really concerned about me coming here, and I was like, dude, we've got to sell the game. I just got back from Vegas, and I was a little nervous while I was over there, but I did everything normal. I went to work out. I ate, went to the fights, which is 20,000 people at the T-Mobile Arena, all stuffed into this one area. And everybody was acting normal. Everybody was high-fiving and hugging. And fighters, I mean, Jesus Christ, you want to talk about people exposed. Yeah, yeah. They're sweating and they're half naked. Tyson Fury's trying to lick that dude's blood. I mean, I don't think he's worried. That was before.

18:16That was before the big outbreak. Yeah, I'm worried about old people. I'm worried about my parents, for sure. I'm worried about people who are overweight. I have friends that are not healthy that maybe should lose some weight, and I'm worried about them. I'm worried about people with respiratory problems. A good friend of mine has a daughter who has cystic fibrosis, and he canceled his tour. Shout out to Everlast. He canceled his tour because of that, but he's got a real concern. His daughter has a pretty serious lung condition. That is really scary. It's horrible. He's got no choice. He has to stay home and play it safe. And I think a lot of people are going to do that. You know, it's going to be interesting to see how the government handles it. Because one of the things about love or hate Trump, he's willing to do some shit that a lot of people would think would be unpopular, like close down traffic.

19:07Yeah. Close down flights coming in from other countries that are infected, that have high rates of infection. You know, I mean, I wonder what they're going to do. And something I think something really radical has to be done to try to start to slow down this this fucking illness But I don't know what they can do So are we waiting for it to I got to watch your show with this guy Are we waiting for it to go away? Like I read a quote that like when the weather changes it'll it'll stop or something That's horseshit Yeah, Michael Osterholm set a street on that. That's nonsense He's like it's not gonna have any effect on it What happens is it just runs through the population and people develop immune systems that can handle it. You develop an immunity once you catch it. And for many people, it's just going to be like a bad cold. For many people, it's going to be like you're coughing

19:54and you just try to get better. Stay home, drink a lot of fluids, be healthy, do your best, and eat healthy and then get out. You're going to have an immunity to it. And that's what's going to happen on the other end. I saw one guy, he had it and it was fairly mild. And then they quarantined and he got over it. He was getting over it and getting better And then they quarantined him with a bunch of people that also had it and then he got it even worse Which is interesting because I was like I wonder how he got it again And I guess probably his immunity wasn't fully developed yet And then it just overwhelmed his immune system because there was you know He's basically quarantined with a bunch of other people that were really really sick But he got through it and he was talking about it and all these poor people that are stuck on boats. Oh my god. It's crazy This is gonna kill the cruise ship industry

20:40I guarantee you that. We just went on vacation. I have to say, traveling and we went to this vacation spot, there's nobody there. It's actually kind of nice. Oh, yeah. If you go to Hawaii right now, woo! You got the whole beach to yourself. We had everything to ourselves. It was amazing. I wonder how this is going to play out. I really do. We go even at our hotel eating at the buffets and stuff. But to your point, I'm just like, fuck it. What are we going to do? They're closing down buffets. It's one of the things they're doing in Vegas. They're closing down buffets. Those buffets are huge. I haven't been to Vegas too many times, but the one time I was there, I had a pretty crazy buffet. Yeah. I mean, all you can eat, just fucking pig out. Some of those buffets. But that's also how they do it on a lot of cruise ships. They have buffets. I only went on one cruise ship, and by the end, I wanted to throw up.

21:26Like, oh, my God. Because the first day, you're like, the food's amazing. It's so buttery, gross. It's like being stuck on an apartment building filled with drunks, but you're all on the roof. and if you jump off the side, you're definitely dead. Yes. That's what it's like. They're feeding you the fattiest, grossest, but tasty food. Yeah. You know. Oh, man. If you're looking to get fat, that's your move. Some people are just, fuck it, let's go all in. I just recently lost 20 pounds. Did you? Yeah. What'd you do? Well, I was 226 and that was fun, especially, I mentioned earlier, like doing jujitsu. Fun just because you can pin people down easier? Extra weight? More weight to throw around, I guess, yeah. Did you get tired easier, though? I did. There's definitely been benefits to losing weight that I actually really like. But my blood pressure and my cholesterol was really high. What did you do to lose the weight?

22:18Well, I went to a nutrition. Well, really, I gained that weight just from eating like an idiot. I had really bad eating habits, and I had no idea. I didn't know you weren't supposed to eat a shit ton of pasta before you go to bed. You didn't know? How old are you? I'm 43. How do you not know that? I make video games. I don't know what the fuck's going on. So like I know how to do glory kills Listen man, I woke up this morning with acid reflux Not really, but like well felt gross because I ate two tins of sardines last night before I went to bed Yeah, so I'm not smart either I went to a nutritionist and she just kind of coached me on Like basic stuff and it was remarkable how much weight I lost just by not being, you know stupid You got to just go to bed hungry Yes You're way better off going to bed hungry than eating a big meal before you go to bed

23:04But I come home from the comedy store and it's late and no one's home. I just become an idiot. I just start eating. That's exactly. And then I go right to sleep. I would crunch on the game and, like, be at the office late, come home, and my wife would make something amazing, but I miss dinner, and it's like I want to fucking eat. It looks awesome. It's right there. Yeah. But that made me super fat. Like, it wasn't very – but I was working out a lot, so it was actually – and doing jujitsu, so it was fun being of a larger size, But I'm not supposed to be that big like it wasn't good. That's my my numbers are all much better now That's great. And you just the nutritionist. What did you change? I? Basically, I kept a food diary and she read it and just laughed. She's like She's like you eat like you're 13. I like Work on things for 13 year olds. That's it pretty much. Yeah, and I just really

23:58When I was a kid it was like finish your food clean up your plate Just wipe up every last bit watching my dad. He's Argentinian piles of fucking steak You know like just I thought that's how people ate and I supposed to eat Yeah, but not at like 11 o'clock at night, I guess yeah I just don't think you're supposed to eat and then go to sleep It's just not I didn't do a vegan thing. I asked her that I was like should I not eat? She's like no it's kind of the basic stuff I eat the little bit of all these food groups and I just eat in moderation. Also, when I moved to Texas, the Asian food scene there is amazing. Oh, really? It's fucking amazing. In Dallas? Like what kind of Asian food? Vietnamese food is outrageous. The Taiwanese beef noodle soup is fucking amazing, which is like Chinese ramen. That's interesting that it's in Dallas. Yeah, I didn't know that either. Dallas is culturally super diverse.

24:50Dallas is a fucking great city. It's awesome. It is a great city. I was just there two weeks ago. The food is so good. I love it there. If it's bad for you, they have perfected it. That's for sure. In my first week there, I went to the Texas fair and I had fried pumpkin pie with a scoop of ice cream and hot chocolate. And it was like the best fucking thing I've ever had in my life. But it's so bad for you. And so just fried pumpkin pie. It was good. They don't play games in Texas. No, the whole fair is just fried stuff. Well, fairs are ridiculous. Yeah. Just going to a fair is ridiculous. It's just you're gonna get fat just walking through the gates. I I did you know definitely and then honestly like The work was so intense With by my own doing I was so into making doom and still am but that but I had to balance it out

25:37Like I think I was reaching a milestone of like learning how to eat better and sleep right like I was I was just acting like I was still in college And how many hours a day are you guys working because when I was friends with the it guys This was like Quake 3 before it came out. Like way back then I was friends with those guys. And when I was doing gigs in Dallas, I'd go to id studios and they'd show me all the stuff. They told me, yeah, it was pretty awesome. I'm embarrassed that I'm coming here and I'm not good at Quake. So like, I was like, shit, he's going to totally give you garbage. No, it's okay. But you play with a controller, which I tell people you play with an Xbox controller, which is quite embarrassing. Well, I'm pretty good with it though. But how do you not use a mouse and keyboard? I do sometimes.

26:17That's probably why you're not good at quick. Well, I quake Jamie and I were bonding over this when quake came out I was in art school and everybody was using Apple products. So right Like literally no one I knew had a PC like one dude in a dorm had PC and he'd go there And he'd turn on doom and you're like holy shit. This is crazy But like I mean I was like an Apple guy hardcore So I just I just missed it, you know like that boat, but I play now and I'm okay I like playing PUBG. I mean, certain games you have to play mouse and keyboard and PUBG and stuff like that. Jamie, are computers updated? Is everything updated? We are ready to go. We're ready to go. We'll play afterwards. No, I'm not very good at all. Come on, man. You work in the game industry. You have to play a little. You can't say, I'm not going to play because I'm not good. No, I will.

27:05Then you're saying to all these kids out there that are not good, don't even start. Oh, no. I will totally play. I'm just not. We didn't make Quake Champions. That was made by another team. Well, they did an awesome job. They did do an awesome job. Everything that comes out of id is always going to have a certain level of quality. So it's a different team at id that made Quake Champions? Yes. It was outsourced, managed by Tim Willits, and then outsourced to, I believe, Sabre. So is Willits with them now? Where is Willits? Willits, I believe, is with them, but I'm going to probably get that wrong. Shout out to Tim. How are you, buddy? Yes. I haven't seen that guy in forever. And he left a couple months ago, I think. So he's retired? Drinking Mai Tais on the beach? No, he's with them now. Oh, okay. Yeah, like doing something awesome. I don't know. Can't tell us? I don't even know, to be honest. Okay.

27:50Like this, I just head down making doom. I get it. So how many days a week are you guys working? When you're in crunch time, are you working six, seven days a week on this thing? It's not really crunch. It's funny. I prepared for this interview. I watched all your video game interviews, and I know that crunch comes up a lot. But, like, the, this is going to sound hokey. It's like a lifestyle. Like, I live and breathe this, you know, like, no one makes me stay at the office. And even when I come home, I see my kids, I do my thing, and then I just do research. Like, it sounds ridiculous, not unlike my diet, but, like, my research is that of a 13-year-old. Like, I play fucking video games and read comic books and just engross myself in pop culture because essentially what we do is make pop culture content for—that's pop culture content, you know. That didn't make sense. No, it makes sense.

28:43So you just have to like, you know ingest a ton of it, which means that it's 24 7 I mean I get I get up really early. I try to do the exercise thing I couldn't really fit in going to do any kind of training or anything in the afternoons because it was just family and stuff so I try to do that in the mornings and then I come home and Put the kids school and then I have like about two hours where the house is empty And I'll just play games, you know, so you're training real early then I do it's horrible But I do the 6 a.m. one which is fucking holy shit, dude. Yeah, you're up at 5 shove something in your mouth No, not anything. I made that mistake. I drank a protein shake once before training. That was a fucking disaster Holy shit, so I don't need anything. I drink water. I didn't even know what the hell I was doing again

29:26I didn't knew nothing of nutrition. So I was like it's 530 and I got to be healthy I'm gonna drink this and like yeah, you can't train neon belly I'm like dude, this is we're gonna have a serious fucking problem in like two seconds. Yeah. Yeah It's the same thing with yoga hot yoga. I've tried to do it after breakfast. You literally can't do it I actually I'm tired too like so I'm I'm pretty much just water, you know, and and it's only an hour So I could I could kind of get through it. I don't know if this BCA's are helping or not, but I sometimes put that in my water just because Branched-chain amino acids is that good that yes. Yes for sure. Yeah Good before you train and after you train. Yeah, and depending upon who you ask, you know, there's different protocol just for a little extra juice You know, I don't know like to help because I get a lot of muscle strains

30:15So I would strains yeah like in my calves and stuff like it like cramps is that what you're saying? I guess like taking any electrolytes. I'm I'm they're going away because I'm hydrating That was another thing the nutritionist said was that I was probably dehydrated way more than I realized So I'm drinking water like and it's actually working like I actually feel like I'm I'm getting less of those and I'm also hungry less like one of her things was that Probably some of what my cravings are for food is that I'm actually thirsty So I would now I like chug a big glass of water and the cravings do kind of those 11 o'clock cravings kind of subside a little bit But yes, I try to do it in the mornings. It's just super super rough Yeah, over the last couple of weeks, last week in particular, I've been drinking a shitload of water. Just a shitload.

31:02Last night at the comedy store, I must have drank seven bottles of water, which is great until I got home. I got up to pee three times in the middle of the night last night. I'm like, fuck. I'd wake up, it's like three in the morning. I'm like, goddammit, can I hold it in? No, shit. I just kept doing it, man. Three times I got up to pee. So you would agree that just, I mean, obviously, right, just drinking shit tons? Drink a shit ton of water, but I believe in electrolytes. I think electrolytes are very important, and I think you should find a good company that sells electrolytes that you can pour into your water. It will make a difference. Do you have one that you would recommend? I use Liquid IV. It's a sponsor of the podcast, just for full disclosure. But I actually enjoy it, and even if it wasn't a sponsor, I would absolutely use it. It tastes good. You pour it in there.

31:46It's got salt, a little bit of sugar, and a lot of electrolytes, and it's just fucking really good for you. That's awesome. It's supposed to rehydrate you twice as fast as water itself. Oh, wow. It's twice as well as water itself. That's awesome. Yeah, so I pour one of those into a bottle. I like to do that before I work out. It's also something that gives you a little bit of calories. Not much, but... Do you do anything during? Like, is that... Just water. Just so the electrolyte stuff or the BCA is before or after, but not during? I don't do it. I mean, maybe I'm wrong about that, but I don't. I know the most I ever do is if I'm training really hard like if I'm doing something really crazy Then I'll then I'll drink something with electrolytes while I'm working out like a Gatorade or a Powerade or something like that

32:33Just to try to replenish my glucose levels. Is that good to drink Gatorade while you're doing exercise? Sure Okay, cuz I feel like it is like yeah, I'm pretty exhausted. I have to be honest. They have little bottles of Gatorade I do get energy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean there's I mean there's a reason why athletes you drink it. They're not assholes That's true. I don't know they're always drinking the it's not it's the logos on the cup, but I'm like Is that like some kind of special power issue with things like Gatorade or Powerade or any of those? You know sports drinks air quotes is if you're not doing sports. You shouldn't be drinking them. Yeah It's like if you're just laying around drinking Gatorade. There's a fuck load of sugar in that shit But if you're running hills or if you're rucking with like a 50 pound backpack on and you're goddamn exhausted

33:13Well, if you drink one of those things it'll give you some energy and it'll replenish some electrolytes and give your body some glucose There's some benefits to that stuff. It's just when to use it and where and why you use it is what's important But there's definitely benefits to taking those sports drinks Your your facility out there is fucking awesome. It's pretty dope. I love it you the bats thing that clubs club bells Yeah, that's pretty crazy. Yeah, I've never done any kettlebells or I need to though because I don't know that my I could show you some of the stuff. It's pretty easy If you have like a lightweight kettlebell you could learn it You really should start with a lightweight once you don't hurt yourself. Who's the guy who works for you? He's got the beard. I met him first Taylor Taylor

33:51I think he has a black t-shirt on Jeff. Yeah Jeff and I shook his hand and I was like my my goodness I think you've been tossing around Like he's just corn fed seriously. It was like a big old fella even doing something dude. Yeah, they're big fellas The the great thing about kettlebells or club bells those clubs is that you're using your whole body You know, that's the thing about those things it actually enhances your athletic ability enhances your ability to do sports Particularly jiu-jitsu like things like Turkish get-ups you ever do Turkish get-ups I was joking my friend yesterday. So no, I've seen them I think if you put the word Turkish in front of anything, it usually means it's pretty gnarly So like Turkish sauna yeah Turkish bath Turkish prison Like right like that express wasn't that a Turkish prison. Yes. That is the magnifier for everything That's funny Turkish wrestling. Yeah true

34:42But I've never done one, but they look pretty serious. They're legit. Turkish get-up is one of my favorite exercises because it's not romantic. It doesn't give you big pecs. But, man, for jiu-jitsu, it's a real game-changer. And that's with the one leg. Like you have one leg out, one leg. Well, you start off on your back. You start off laying on your back. You press the kettlebell up, and then you sit up. And then once you sit up, you get one leg under you, and then you go up, and then you go all the way up, stand straight up, and then drop all the way back down. You should watch a video. Ideally, you should find a coach and have someone correct all your form so that you have it down and then you can do it on your own.

35:20But the beautiful thing about that is like you could have a kettlebell and you sit in your office and just for five minutes, just do Turkish get ups for five minutes and do it a couple of times a day and it'll change your body. That's awesome. your core strength and your shoulder strength and your shoulder stability because you got this thing overhead at the end of it and then you're dropping it back down and you're you know resting your body back down and starting all over again it's a very difficult exercise i'm uh i think working with someone is what i need to do because at 43 i'm finding that like i i injure myself because i'm not exercising correctly i clearly i'm not doing anything correctly but the the uh like i'll i'll try to do some extra stuff outside of training to, you know, work on things. And there's always something.

36:05And then when you get, when I get something, it fucks everything up for months. Like I did something on my bicep and I couldn't do half the shit I needed to do, you know, in the morning and training. Like it was a pain in the ass. So actually I'm not really doing anything anymore. I do just some basic simple shit, but like. Basic simple shit is fine. Like just body weight squats, chin ups, push ups, stuff like that. That's it. All that stuff is real good for you. The thing is like you're doing something right because you got a purple belt, right? Yes. So congratulations on that Thank you, but also, you know, you're doing jujitsu. That's a fucking hard thing to do man It's like I gotta do something because when I wasn't doing it I got the the kids and the work because the you know It is a lifestyle but it's also a lifestyle that involves sitting on your ass staring at a TV screen

36:49Yeah, what kind of chairs do you guys sit in to keep you from getting back pains? I don't really sit that much like for me. No, I'm just walking the whole fucking time like just Walk into this thing walk into that thing and then we just have pretty basic desk But a lot of people do standing desks for sure and and I like those a lot too The I don't have one but because again, I don't really sit anywhere specific. I have an office, but I'm never in it But always moving around talking to different people about this and that which is good because I when I sit for too long My lower back I got like a bulge in in the in the lower back area I don't know. And if I sit too much, it kind of bugs me. But everyone who does jujitsu has something going on with their back. Yeah, I'm a little worried about that because I found a thing that you get the kids.

37:35And before it, I was like, you know, roughhousing with them and you're fucking breathing heavy. And it's just like shit, dude. And so I'm like, what can I do? I'm like, I don't fucking like basketball. I think running sucks. Like, I don't want to just work out like, you know, so I did this and it became a fun, engaging way to get healthy. It's a game. You know, you're playing a game. It's like it cleans up everything Like I can't eat shitty food because I'm gonna feel like shit on that So like yeah, it had this ripple effect in my life. That was fucking amazing Yeah, and and and a really healthy pursuit, but the back thing Is that guaranteed that like well this things you can do to mitigate it? And I'll show you some of the things that we have here at the machine called the reverse hyper Unfortunately, this just came up on a podcast yesterday as well.

38:22Reverse Hyper Machine, which is a great machine for strengthening your lower back. And then there's one of my sponsors is Teeter. They make those inversion tables. And they have this thing called the DEX. And it's like you bend over. It's a D-E-X-X. Is that what it is? Just one X. And you bend over at the waist. And it just like decompresses your spine. It relaxes everything. I'll show it to you afterwards. I'll show it to you afterwards. Because I want to keep doing it for health reasons. Yeah, no, for sure. I found something that adds something to my life in a healthy way. Yeah, I love it. It's awesome, but it does beat you up. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. I've seen you wearing your gi in some pictures. Are you wearing your gi again and training more with your gi? Did you always train with your gi? Well, I trained with the gi and no gi. I have a black belt in both.

39:09I know, but I could be completely wrong. It seemed like you were doing a lot of no gi for a while. A lot of no gi, yeah. But lately it seems like you're wearing the gi again, but I could be completely wrong. No, I think both are good. I think there's nothing wrong with the gi. What the gi teaches you is defensive postures. It teaches you defensive techniques better because you can't pull out of everything. So you have to do everything with proper technique. You can't just, because when everything gets slippery and snowy, you just pull out of stuff. Sure. But you can't do that if someone has a hold of your sleeves and they've got their fist fully wrapped in there. Like you're not getting out and then you're just going to get deeper in. You got to use technique. You got to use the proper defense. Do you have a preference or just it's all good? I think both are good

39:51I think both are good look if you live in a place where people are wearing winter coats learning how to fight with a gear It's great. Yeah, you know you grab a coat I mean a coat is like a weapon that a person's wearing on them like you use their own coat against them. I saw a great Podcast clip with you and and Guy Ritchie and you were staring at his tie and you were like salivating because Yeah, it's like a thing with ties. I tell people that if you have a tie, you should have like a velcro thing in the back. Just take a nice tie, put it on, tighten it up, and then snip the back. And then sew in some velcro so it seals up like this so that if you could just, someone yanks on your neck and just pulls that tie off. Yes. Just put on paranoid. Totally. But I mean your collar itself, right? Yeah. Like a good shirt collar. You could choke someone with that. You know, you're doing an Ezekiel choke with that.

40:39I like the community. With your sleeves. You could use your own sleeves. You could collar choke in someone, one of those chokes, with a good stiff dress shirt. You can get in there pretty deep. A collar choke in somebody with a dress shirt on, that would be pretty sick. You totally could. Yeah. But with a jacket, like a leather coat, that person's a dead man. If you had a street fight with a judo player and you're wearing a leather jacket, good luck. Yeah. You're going to get thrown in your head. Our head instructor does a lot of judo stuff and his fucking grip is, oh my goodness. They have crazy core strength too. Those guys have crazy upper body and core strength because they're so used to just everything is throwing you. But when they're demoing and they grab your collar and you're just like, what the fuck? I know. I'll never get this off. Hand strength. Yeah.

41:26A lot of them, what they do is they take gis or towels and they throw it over a chin-up bar and they do chin-ups by just holding onto the towel or holding onto the gi. There's a wiry, like every muscle is like taut with those guys, you know? Yeah. Like it's crazy. Even if they look skinny, like they grab ahold of you and you're like, holy shit, dude. Well, you look at their hands and you see their knuckles are all inflamed. Yeah. Every knuckle like sticks out that far. You see it a lot with jujitsu guys as well. That's the truth. Like the ears, totally telltale sign, don't fuck with that guy. But if the knuckles are fucked up, you should just do whatever that person says. Like have you seen Megaton Diaz's hands dude, holy shit. They're like I mean See if you can find an image of Megaton Diaz Is that arthritis? Is that what that is? Yeah, so is he like So he's in he's in pain

42:19Well, I want I don't know I mean you'd have to ask him but goddamn it dude that guy will Rip your neck right off. Oh my god. One of them Steven Seagal movies They could do it for real like Roadhouse. I was just gonna say that dude That's like one of my favorite movies Like that scene where he does that they do that guy that bad guy is fucking crazy like he just I used to like you in prison Holy Jesus God movie so good in all the worst ways that look at the Megaton Diaz's hands. Yeah, those knuckles So that's just one image of him. There's a bunch of images of him with his knuckles. Yes His hands are just gnarly and that I mean there's a lot of a lot of Jiu-jitsu guys like that, you know what is so it's been said a million times They were also the community around it is that's another part that I really fell in love with because it's it's like dad jitsu

43:09Where I go like we all want to get in shape and there's younger guys who are really athletic and old We have a one woman who's 72 because she's her son is there and her son's a fucking beast and he fucking did this to me but the it's just awesome. We're all trying to get healthy and we're learning shit and we're helping each other. That's great. It's fucking great, dude. I love it. Yeah, it's an awesome way to exercise. I'm wondering if one day they're going to be able to figure out some sort of a virtual reality learning game. It's one of the things that I talked with Carmack about. I was like, I see, because Carmack has done some martial arts himself, and I was like, I see, he's actually very good at judo and jiu-jitsu. He's really talented. Apparently he choked somebody out at the office once,

43:50I think the person asked for it, but there's some story of like they wanted to see if John could do it and he was like, okay. And just like a robot. Okay, I'll choke you out now. Yeah. I spoke, I worked, I overlapped with him by like a month and he said one thing to me and it was pretty cool. He told me not to put grates in the game because they don't look good. And I was like, yes, sir. That will never happen. Grates. Something to do. Like grates you would run on? Something with grates when you look at them at an angle, they like do. who all the tech guys right now are like, Jesus, Hugo. It's very specific. But yeah, he just told me not to do that, and I was like, I will not. That's all he told you? Yes. He's super nice. I didn't know what to say to him. I had no reason. I didn't want to bother him. Look, that's me and him. That is awesome. Yeah. He is, the dude's legit.

44:38The founders of id, John Romero, that guy, I mean, I really feel like we're standing on the shoulders of geniuses when we make this game. Like a lot of what makes Doom Eternal good is what they did in their game. Like the rocket launcher is such a well-balanced weapon in the original Doom game. And we took a lot of inspiration from that. And the fucking characters are so well designed. The pinky and the cacademan and the sounds they make. The game still holds up to this day. Yeah, it does. Like straight fucking legit geniuses. Even with the clunky old school graphics, it's still very immersive. It actually adds to the charm because when you look at it now, it just looks like a fucked up Saturday morning cartoon. Seriously, it's like something they would make on Adult Swim, you know? Yeah, well, Quake 1 became a big hit even after Quake 2 and Quake 3.

45:25A lot of guys went back to Quake 1 because it was like a faster game. And a lot of times guys actually cut all the textures out anyway. Yeah, so they could see everything. Yeah, which is really weird. I just last year played through Quake 1 single-player and Quake 2 single-player campaign with mouse and keyboard. Yes, you would be very proud. But I didn't play the multiplayer. But I actually am going to just become awesome at Quake Champions. Really? Let's start today. I'm down. Very often part of my research, like, when I play is to – I have to achieve – I don't want to – like, I have to reach mastery in a game to find the fun. Like part of the research that you have to do when you're designing a game and when you play other games to remain so that we understand like how other games are working successfully or not is to play them long enough to achieve mastery.

46:18So you really you feel that addiction. You feel that engagement level and you're like, OK, I know how they did this. I know I know what I'm feeling right now. Do you bring in you take like professional gamers and bring them in for consultation and say, how do you how do you feel about this? Absolutely. We watch and certainly we talk to them. But it's dangerous because if you – so absolutely. But it's kind of like would you want Michael Jordan designing the next sports game? Like it's kind of – like he can tell you – it's sort of like the guy who builds the race car might not be the best guy to drive it. Hold on. Here's what's wrong with that analogy. You're talking about Michael Jordan in a game. I'm talking about game players. So bringing game players to tell you about a game is a good idea.

47:02Yeah, bringing Michael Jordan to tell you how to play a video game based on basketball, probably not the best idea. No, definitely not. We do. We talk to them. Absolutely. But the point I was making was just that you could fall into a little bit of a trap. It's absolutely part of the process. It's the smart thing to do. Again, if you're building a race car, you go talk to race car drivers and say, how does it feel? What do you think? Well, this is loose. That feels odd. Okay, we'll go fix it. So how does a game like Doom Eternal start? Does it start it starts with a meeting you say hey we are thinking about doing this What do you think and then how does it get the green light? How does a game like that get going? We have from the very beginning yes, we have a green light I've been there for seven eight years. So what happens? We have a green light process where we put together an overall idea

47:48Marty and myself, you know work very closely Marty is the studio director and executive producer shout out to Marty He's awesome. He's he's the boss. He is the shit So what you guys say like someone comes up with a car. So what are we gonna do for our next game? We talk like it's you know making games is fucking awesome like it's it is it's the fucking cool is like I Can't believe that this is my job like it's awesome. Yes, that's what everyone wants there's you Stick a dynamite and a crowbar wouldn't get rid of me and fucking in software Like I can't get enough of making doom games, but you hit the jack the jackpot It's like what people want to do for a living is do something where you go to work. You know, I can't believe this is my job. Oh, so that's why when I go to play and to do the work, I'm like, I'm not fucking working. Right. Seriously, you know, like. That's awesome.

48:36So which can get a little out of hand, I guess, sometimes. But the in terms of like balance and like doing other things and like get up and exercise or do something. But yeah, me and Marty, we talk quite a bit. And it's it's it's commercial art. You know, it's business and art and creativity coming together and we have a schedule and we have to work out the budgets and stuff like that. But ultimately we begin with like a conversation about like what it is we want to do. We're talking all the time, he and I, about stuff. And then we talk to other people on the team. But essentially it begins with the executive producer and the director of the project getting together and talking. Then we work very closely with our publisher. And you start to formulate a plan. and we had a plan and a good one for Doom Eternal. And it's cool because we just recently had a meeting with our publisher

49:27where we were able to bring up some of the things that we talked about three years ago and they are working now, which is a good sign. Like you are pivoting a lot during development for sure. Like, okay, that didn't work. Let's try something else. And what do you base it on? It didn't feel fun to do or it didn't look cool? We call it just steering into things. That feels good. Steer into that. That feels good steer into that you're always steering into the fun Like you let the game tell you what it wants once there's enough of it on the table to You know to judge so what are the first processes like when you say okay? You got the green light? It's time to make a game. What's the first things that get done is it design? Do you sort of design what the players look like is it the coding? It's like everything. I mean they begin the engine all the different process is it a unique engine?

50:13Are you using an existing engine and this is? very good questions for Marty the executive producer, but yes, they They begin making the engine based on what they want to do next and the goals there and that has to like the this is the engine of the race car and we're discussing the kind of race car We want to make so we should explain to people we're talking about we're talking about a 3d engine this yes oftentimes what happens is like say another video game can license your 3d engine and use it with different graphics to make other games and that's a common thing yes the 3d engine is what we're talking about which is every game has a different feel it's like some people like when during the quake days some people were really into unreal right remember that game epic games and they were like this game has a different engine i love the way

51:03this engine feels yes you know because they all have different sort of physics made some good fucking engines. Oh my god, did he? He's a smart guy. Well, he recognized the balance of speed to like real world physics versus this sort of cartoonish shit. Like, what's the fun balance? It seems like Quake 3 was like a really fun balance, whereas Quake 2 was a little slower. Quake 1 was way crazier, way faster, but didn't look as cool. What is your favorite? Champions. Quake Champions is the best. Tim is happy. It's the best. That's awesome. It's the best. It's everything in Quake. Yeah, it's everything in Quake, but ramped up I don't like all that stupid shit like when lizards spit on you and it's poison you run through it like that's weak But but the the weapons are really well balanced and the maps are amazing and the graphics are off the charts

51:55The graphics are so cool like while you're playing it like what the fuck? Dude the it's a it's crazy and the artists are so amazing I mean the work they do is so inspiring. That's the coolest thing like you you love what you do You love the medium that you work in. I feel so fortunate because and I speak for all of us at the team We fucking love the type of game we make. I mean you just saw it dude. It's so it's fucking absurd It's like an R-rated psycho cartoon, but it's not it's not mean-spirited. That's what I really like about it Like it's it's it's kind of uh, it's cool It's like fun. It's fun fun. That was actually our main focus Again, you're killing demons like that's it fine. It's just like walking dead. You're allowed to kill the zombies

52:34The whole purpose is to make something we talk about quite a bit, like the emotional response of the consumer, like how you feel when you play something and we want you to smile. Like certain games, they want you to be scared, which is good. Survival horror games, I'm on my heels. I'm like, oh, my God, you know, what's around the corner? In Doom, we want you on your toes smiling, like just fucking barreling forward. Like, what am I going to murder next? Like, where is it? You know, but it's frivolous and it's fun and it's junk food. But as we say there is quite a bit of nutritional content in there like it's it's a smart game Is there any pushback against these kind of games like when you guys Produce a game like this or create a game like this is there any where people are like this is too violent. This is awful This is not really because it's not against humans like we and it's not

53:26There's no agenda like it's not I guess yeah We don't really deal with that because you're murdering cartoonish looking fucking demons, you know And and dude believe me like we take it full advantage of that Like like I said, you know we straight up Steven Seagal these motherfuckers right in the head like it's awesome And and I don't think you should say Steven Seagal anymore and definitely don't use it as a verb It's way more violent than any Seagal movie that that is true But but like I always got a kick out of his hyper extending of the limbs The breaking of the arms. In that one in particular, that glory kill too, we were like, there's one pose in the animation where you hold out his arm and he's like, because that's like what guys always do.

54:05What I'm holding out hope for is some sort of Oculus version of Doom or Quake or something like that where you have like a unidirectional treadmill and you're locked into it. You've seen those things, right? Yeah. Was it omnidirectional? Is that what it's called? Yeah. Omnidirectional treadmill. There is a doom VFR which is pretty cool like they they made it and it did really well actually and yeah Yeah, it is it Yeah, I'm VF have you heard of it, Jamie? I have it But I have not played it cuz it came in my little cycle of like getting where I could stand up for a long period of time Oh your back issue. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Jamie broke his butt we Kind of a new care We removed those things from the office the thing that he hurt himself on oh the hoverboards. Oh my goodness Yeah, so that one minute people are laughing check this out next minute some dude's ankle is just straight fucking hanging off his leg

55:00So this is the VR version of doom. Yes, it is Oh, it's pretty goddamn good. And so how are you moving around? You're teleporting just like yeah, but how are you walking? I think that's it. I think just teleport you stand still right. I didn't I didn't work on this So I don't know okay. Do you know Jamie? Like how are you going through all this? There's a little line that shoots out that's like where you're teleporting to yeah Oh, so you stay this work I can't move. I mean that's how they had it That's a couple years old now, so they've figured out some new things. Oh Well, the graphics look dope But if you just teleporting teach spot and then standing still and punching people that's ridiculous there That's how you do it, huh? And then you go forward Well, I'm not doing it justice to because I didn't work on this

55:45So I couldn't really tell you how the movement actually it's obvious pretty it's pretty obvious that's what you do you're teleporting with that green bolt have you ever um you know what sandbox is have you ever fucked with that no sandbox vr no it's really cool there's um uh there's a company in woodland hills or there's a uh studio in woodland hills and there's another one i don't there's a couple of them around the la area but anyway you uh put a haptic feedback vest on you put a helmet VR everything plastic guns and then you go and fight things and there's one where you go and shoot this one's great this one is called well yeah something mansion was it called so they have one of these in check zombies yeah I want to do it's the shit yeah that's really fun rats come out you got a gun the rats down so you are in this room and like this is see they keep

56:37cutting back for what what is actually happening what the people see sure when you're there live and you see it it's fucking killer it's really cool that's really fun and they're getting better at these things they have like uh sort of uh that character's cool that's the boss that comes and gets you deadwood mansion that's that one i love that one that's awesome there's a star trek game there's um there's quite a few of them i think they have four or five different little experiences that you can do that's really really fun don't they have a star Star Wars one? Perhaps. The Void has that, yeah. The Void. Oh, that's right. The Void's different. Yeah, I've done the Star Wars one. That's at Disneyland. In Disneyland, downtown Disneyland, before you get to the park, you could go and do the Void ride, which is actually better than any of the rides in downtown Disneyland, or in Disneyland itself.

57:23Is that the one with the Avatar flying the Necron, or whatever the hell those things are called, in Avatar World, when you're flying on the thing? That is in Disney World. Okay. Not Disneyland. Disneyland. Disneyland is LA. LA for land. But Disney World in Orlando has this thing called Flights of Passage, which is fucking amazing. It's the greatest, absolutely the greatest ride. E-crons, I think. Yeah. You ride one of those dragons in Avatar. That's awesome. And it's incredible. I would love to do a VR thing where you're like one of the colonial marines from Aliens 2, like running through it. That'd be fucking awesome. And they're coming out. They're coming out of the goddamn walls. Yeah, you could do something like that. Hudson. That was awesome my that's my hope for the future is that games are like that and you're actually gonna be able to exercise doing that

58:10Because I think that if you had a game where you're in a warehouse and you're actually running for your life Again, you know and demons are chasing you and you're shooting down things like your heart rate would be jacked You could do that for an hour and get a sick workout in and have an amazing good time That would be awesome getting great shape running from demons you would I wouldn't have to get up so early in the fucking morning Think about this game if you could play this game, but you could play this game in a warehouse Where you know you have all of the boxes and all those stairs. They're all real stairs and real boxes Yeah, you're running around this pre-designed map and you're actually Engaging with these VR demons with a haptic feedback suit fucking glory killing them. Yeah Ripping out their parts to really into this glory killing

58:59But the really problem with this calling it glory killing is it sounds too much like glory hole. It really does. Right, Jamie? Do you agree? They have a new ride that got announced today for, I guess, out here at Disneyland. The new Marvel Avengers Campus is going to be opening up in the summer. They have a Spider-Man ride where it sounds like you put on a 3D headset, I think just goggles, and somehow they're tracking your hands. So during the ride, you shoot things for points. Oh, with your spider web. Then there's a leaderboard outside the ride for, like, weekly, daily, and monthly stuff. So you and your family can get tracked and be like, oh, we're the best at this ride. Oh, you're going to get addicted. That's how they get you. That sounds all awesome. The level of sophistication going on with the games, whether you're mouse and keyboard or controller, though, it would be hard to achieve in VR.

59:55I think VR offers like a very specific, unique, and fucking amazing experience. And I would just like separate the two. Like, you know, when we're making VR games, we're definitely trying to do something else, which is cool in and of itself. But there's like not only just in our game, but in a lot of games, like there's just resource management. There's like high level skill meta shit happening. I mean, you know, you play fucking Quake. So, like, you know, that's hard to reproduce in VR in certain ways, at least at this time. But I think that's the thing. Like, it happens a lot in games where people want to take how you feel or how a movie engages you and apply it to a game. And I think it's like let a game be its own. Let a game be a game. Let a movie be a movie. Let VR be its own fucking experience. Like, that looks fucking awesome. Yeah. But, yeah, if we just, yeah.

60:47So, still, though, yeah, I would love to kill, you know, Dean. We have the VR game. I should just play it. What I'm saying is if someone made a Doom warehouse where you guys take a 14,000 square foot warehouse, just outfit it specifically for Doom. You've got a line around the block of psychopaths waiting to play that thing for one hour. I mean, seriously, especially somewhere like Texas where there's a bunch of warehouses. like you can find some warehouse district where you can get three or four of them and set them up for different maps in the game that'd be fucking awesome god damn man I mean they're real close to being able to do something like that where it would be really accurate too where you could have like a laser sight on your rifle and you know you can see things through your goggles that'd be fucking badass although it's the future it is it's the future Hugo it's a lame well it's not lame

61:40you know Carmack can do anything he wants But he's doing AI now. Like he's not doing VR anymore. I heard he was just consulting with Oculus. But now he's pursuing AI. Well, let's be honest. He's too smart. He is. He's too smart. He's from another planet. Him and Elon Musk can get together and share notes. Yes. Yes. They're both super wizards. Yes, totally. He's, I mean, I'm sure he feels challenged by AI. Yeah. And, you know. He likes to challenge. He's a very interesting guy to talk to, too. I really enjoy talking to him. Yeah, he is awesome. And you really think about what he's accomplished in the world of video games. I mean, he's the Mac Daddy. Amazing. He really is. He's the guy who started it all, really. If you enjoy 3D games, that's the guy. That's why working at id Software, and he totally is the guy, and along with the rest of them too, like Romero and those guys. That group, fuck. Do you know him?

62:34Do you know John Romero? I've met him a couple times. That Dicatana game, he took a lot of shit for that game. That was a fun game. Yeah, yeah. It took way too long, and there was a lot of bugs in it and all that good stuff. But, dude, I played it when it came out. I was like, this game is fucking badass. And, yeah. I mean, that guy is all of them. They're like the Beatles, you know? It was like Daikatana was like the physics of Quake 1, but with the graphics of that era. See if you can find a video of Daikatana in-game. It was a fun game and I was like this might catch on but people were down on it before it ever came out There's so much shit talk about it because it took so long and cost so much money and they had these giant offices in Dallas with this huge Penthouse yeah, they're spending so much money. I personally think they they Some of the best work that they yeah look at that

63:34That's a little dark Yeah, this image right here is dark. Yeah. This is not the best video in terms of what you're able to see in-game stuff. Yeah. There was a lot of hype, and certainly that's- See if this is another video, because that's so dark, you can't see anything. Is that it? Yeah, it was hard to- Online? Yeah. On the internet? Bring up a bunch of other stuff. Oh, yeah? I think the best work that they did was when they were all together. Yes. Like keeping the band together that honestly it's making games is definitely a team sport and You got to have everybody working together really well if you want to pull it off You also have to have like division one pro athletes I mean, oh, yeah pro you know I mean Rock star vision ones on a good idea like you if you're if you're gonna make a game You need everybody to be the same level of dedication same level of hard work to say rock stars

64:31Yeah, one of the things. Okay, this is it. Oh, this is why does he have a sword? I never saw this Usually it's like What is this? I don't think this is the game dude. It's not it? No, no, this is not it It might be I mean, maybe it's a mod. I never saw it like that What I saw was a lot of cool rocket launch like this is one rocket launcher that would shoot And it would come out like DNA strands sure sure the rocket was like two rockets would twist at the same time They go back and forth Yeah, this is what the game looked like. It's just it's just really dark for some for whatever reason Huh, maybe like some levels you get a sword. I never saw it. I never saw this either. This looks weird I think this is the game though. Yeah, I think so too. I mean it's been fucking Forever since I played it. I know that Romero likes what we're making which is a huge compliment. What is he up to now?

65:28I don't know he lives in Ireland I think What? Yeah I think so But when I met him he was a super nice guy I met Adrian Carmack at a bar in Texas Which was fucking awesome And it was funny because he started telling me like Well if you guys are going to make it You know we were in production on Doom Eternal He's like if you guys are going to make a Doom game Here's what we thought when we made Doom And everything he listed we were all like That's what we think You know like he's like We just did stuff that made us laugh and made us smile I'm like that's what we say You know like it was cool he was super nice so it to me id software is kind of like disney like they invented a genre and we are part of the new generation there and we have a legacy to live up to like yeah it's the it's a really special place to work i've a tremendous amount of um i don't want to say pressure but uh we're all

66:13motivated yeah well it's it's you know you're working at the highest spot that's like if you go i mean if you think about like it's like if it's rap you're at death bro records you know i I mean, you're like at the highest spot. And the coolest thing is like the type of games that they have always made. Just they are able to get away with things that a lot of mainstream AAA games struggle with just because of how violent it is. I mean, they are like, again, it's Evil Dead 3 with a Transformers budget. Like who the fuck gets to make that? Right. You know, like we, those, the shit you see, we spend a shitload of time making that stuff. I can only imagine. Whereas like in a lot of situations I've been in it's like yeah, we want to cut this dude in half It's like I'm gonna have a lot of money for that dude. So do it pretty fast

66:57You know like we're like there are artists like craftsmen, you know working on the entrails like this looks pretty good And we're and literally the notes you're like I need like the intestine to kind of like flap a little when you get the thing off, you know like and How do you know if you've crossed the line? Is there is there ever been a time when you had a scene and people like dial that back? We we actually tonally You know you say how do you start the project? It's it's kind of like there's a fair amount of brainstorming and the strength of any creative team is that is At least for a game is how you brainstorm with each other It's the synergy in that room has to be good. You got to be selfless You got to show up. You got to be willing to support other ideas other people's ideas as much as your own We have fucking amazing group in that regard, but

67:40Tonally, we try to establish that that like look guys. We're not making saw we're not making hostile. It's not malicious It's not meant to make you cringe and we actually cut together a little video of like what we thought violence wise was inappropriate and tonally felt off. And then we made another video of what felt right. And that was Evil Dead 2 with like, it's not a slow trickle of blood out of a sliced open wrist. It is some dude's head came off and Hawaiian punch just starts fucking shooting out of his head. You know, like, that's really what it is. Like, it's cartoonish, you know, and it goes so far that you because The thing is you do this so much so often. I mean you are murdering demons per minute like I don't know what it is But it's fucking crazy if it was off-putting and realistic and kind of like ooh You'd be so turned off. It'd be sick like you'd make you sick after a while

68:29But so kind of weird way of looking at it. I don't think you're right What you're doing is like super gory and disgusting you think somehow or another that will make you less sick Well, it was more realistic and less bloody. Oh for sure. I mean what's tonally we could we could twist that where every one of those is mean-spirited and really off-putting for sure. I mean, I don't want you to sell me some PR stuff to sort of defend your game against people that are anti-violence because that's what it sounds like. What you're doing is super bloody and disgusting and violent to say that somehow or another that is less off-putting than less gory is pretty. That's a ridiculous argument. I don't want you using it here or anywhere else. Well, it's Joseph. It is not. This is no PR. This is this is legit. It sounds like you've been coached. No, no, no. Like this is my message to the team

69:19I mean sincerely like okay, you're coaching them well because they make the content so like Think of this. All right. I good. I like this because this is the fucking truth. So You look at saw you look at torture porn horror movies They're they're cutting Achilles tendons with a fucking exacto knife and the dude is screaming in pain and he's a person like This is gnarly shit. He doesn't look like he's having a good time like versus on Evil Dead 2 when you Lop off the head of that one grandma creature that comes up out of the basement and like fucking buckets of blood start coming out of Her head right people is cartoonish so like it's it's critical Zero PR spin that is we have to believe that because look Your design story is going to be exposed to the to the consumer in two fucking seconds Like they can see through your bullshit in five seconds if they're like dude, you're trying to sell no like

70:11So we have to have an honest good design story that we can stand behind that is true and that that is the truth I mean, we basically looked at like Cartoons and like make it over the top the animation. So every time here's a perfect example Every time you murder a cacodemon, which is those flying balls. You pull out their eyeball What is it called a caca a cacodemon a caca? What's the CAC? C-A-C-O. Oh, C-A-C-O. Don't you have kids? You have kids, right? I do. I have three kids. It's caca. You're saying caca demon. It's a poo-poo demon. Sure. So every time you pull out his eyeball, you literally hear like a, I can't do it, but Yeah, sound. Like a funny, cartoony sound. And that is absolutely intentional to take the edge off what you're doing. Because if it was more gruesome and they're like, it's The Exorcist versus Evil Dead 2. Those are tonally two completely different movies. You know, House.

71:09House was a movie that came out in the 80s that was inspired by Evil Dead. That's like a fucking comedy. I mean, it is a comedy. And it's a horror comedy versus The Exorcist, which is fucking amazing. Fucking amazing. But really very serious, you know. And that's how we're able to do what we do. Okay, stop selling it. Stop selling the violence thing. I get it. I see what you're saying. What is this, a caca demon? That's a caca demon. It's caca. That's poopoo. It looks like poop. Like if you had a demon shit, that's what it would look like. Like, oh no, tearing you up on the way out. What is that, an original one? That is the original caca demon. From the original Doom? Yes. Oh, cool. So it's an updated version of that, but just more graphically intense. Yes. So when you do something like this and you release this game, obviously there'll be patches and some upgrades and some different things that you do

72:00how long do you work on this game before you guys move on to the next thing? We're already moving on to well I don't want to say the next thing that is a PR answer because I'm not allowed to say that so you have ideas already ideas certainly and DLC DLC is guaranteed basically like a small episode of Doom that we would sell why is it called DLC? Downloadable content, I believe is what that sounds for. Oh, do you think that anyone would know what we were talking about right there? I'm so used to... Jamie would? Jamie would. But Jamie's a super nerd. I'm so used to the gaming convention speak. But yes, it's like an episode. Like we made the movie and now we're going to release like an HBO series of it. Oh, okay. So you'll have this game and then you'll have a bunch of other ones that are based off the same engine, same characters,

72:54different journeys different things that'll come up well all centered around the doom guy yeah yeah but yeah basically the adventures of doom guy and how long do you do that for before you move on to the next game uh it's hard to say you know uh certainly we're always kind of dual tracking things and talking and you know always you know because you never know when the cool idea is going to come along and you're kind of jotting down notes i always have kind of my notepad out just thinking about stuff like as i'm i mean you never know when it's going to something cool you know or you're playing something or you see something or watch something. So, and then we keep those conversations going on the side and see how it goes. So is there any, do you guys like keep your eye open for like where VR is headed and things like that and go, well, not yet. We're not ready for that yet.

73:38But one day down the road, we'll have something like that. Kind of a different, again, like we're like, it's sort of like with cars. I went to school for automotive design. Oh, really? Yeah. How'd you wind up in video games? I just because I love video games, you know the the training in automotive design art have you ever been art center? No, it's dude. You should fucking go. It's fucking where is it? It's in Pasadena and it's okay It's like the Harvard of design schools like it's a man They do cars there and products, but the yeah the cars that they have on display You know the big clay models about that big there. They're fucking amazing and and really really amazing place But you know the the design process that you learn there you can apply to kind of anything. I would say anything, but a lot of things, certainly a video game,

74:27for sure. Because it's just kind of, it's actually the questions you're asking, which is like, how do you start from nothing to something, you know, like, that involves large groups of people. And you kind of learn that there. I forgot your original question. But oh, yeah, no, it's like, you know, so I use a lot of car analogies at the office quite a bit. And it's kind of like we make a race car and and if VR is something else that's like an SUV that's like just another kind of car so like we kind of perfected how to make race cars and it's been doing it since the 90s so like doom eternal is just another race car and a fleet so what you're saying I'm just thinking that as augmented reality and then virtual reality become more and more accessible to consumers I'm wondering you know like where video games are headed I'm wondering if you if you think that's where they're

75:18Or do you think there's always gonna be a place for them on an actual video game? I think an actual computer rather I think there'll always be a place for them in the actual video game I think the the that's where my focus is Other people like Carmack are looking to see where well not anymore, but where video games were gonna go next But I am fully focused on where they are now and how to make what they are now better Well listen man, you guys did a fucking amazing job. It looks really cool. Thank you really fun And I'm sure people are gonna waste massive chunks of their life and get a tremendous amount of entertainment out of it I I hope so Um anything else to tell us we can go play now. Oh really? Yeah that quick champions. Yeah anything else? I don't good. I don't think so. I don't know so it's out. Oh, it's a March March 20th. Yes

76:07Doom Eternal coming out March 20th. So not long folks get your sweaty little hands ready and we'll be available for PC Xbox everywhere Yeah, all the platforms, everything, you know, absolutely. Yeah. All right. Beautiful. Full tilt. All right, man. Well, thanks for being here. Appreciate you. Thank you very much. Thanks for doing what you do. You've wasted a lot of people's time. It's awesome. Thank you. Thank you very much. Bye, everybody.