Don Gavin

00:00Three, two, one. Hello, Don Gavin. Hello, Joe Rogan. Good to see you, sir. It's good to see you. It's been a long time. Yeah, it's a pleasure to get you on here, man. I'm a thrill to be here. We've talked about you, I don't know how many times. Many times. I've heard that from my son. He says you mentioned my name glowingly. Yeah, well, hey, man, you were a giant inspiration to me when I was coming up. That's good to hear. Well, you know, I've talked about this so many, many times, But that era of Boston comedy, when I started in 88 and you guys had already been through the ding-ho and all that had been gone. And it was the heyday of comedy. It was an amazing time. And, you know, I was very fortunate to be able to see guys like you and Sweeney and, you know, and all those guys. Mike Donovan and Kevin Knox. And, I mean, you go down the list over and over and over again. Lenny Clark.

00:51Just an amazing time for stand-up back then. Yeah, that was certainly the heyday. I came in, I started it around 79. And it had been going on for one or two years. But going on meaning not much going on. And then it built and built and built. And then to the point that that explosion, as you said, wow. And I always like to think people talk about a Boston style. It wasn't a Boston style, other than being very aggressive maybe. But everybody had different ways of doing it because we didn't know. It wasn't like an L.A. style or a New York style. There was just all different approaches coming out to the same end. Yeah, you started in 79. So that was really like the beginning of comedy clubs, right? Yeah, well, they weren't even comedy clubs. You mentioned the Ding Ho. Ding Ho used to be like a saloon.

01:42And the guys that were sitting at the bar when we first went in there, they refused to leave. So they stayed at the bar. And all they would do is when we put somebody up on the stand, they'd turn around and say, shut the fuck up, we're trying to drink here. We couldn't get rid of it. So finally we willed it out because they got so tired of hearing the microphone. But that was just a joint, that's all you can say. And it became a Chinese restaurant. So it wasn't a Chinese restaurant at first? It was just a saloon, I think. And then Shun Lee, this guy came in, and it was approached to put comedy in there. And Barry Crimin was one of the guys originally. Lenny, myself, Sweeney, as you mentioned. DJ Hazard, people like that. Jimmy Tingle. Yeah. There was a bunch of us that came in at that time. And once again, no particular one style,

02:30other than the fact that we kind of created that the headliner would be the host. Yeah, that was a weird Boston style. Like when you have the Don Gavin show, you would go out there and host, and you'd do a few minutes in between each comic. Right. Well, we didn't know it was weird. Because I wanted to be in charge. And if Joe Rogan went on, and you're supposed to do 15, and you do great, great. Now, Bill Johnson comes on and he blows. I'm going to go up and take the mic after about six minutes. Yeah, that was Bill Johnson. And then go on to the next cut. And then at the end, that headliner would close the show. Yeah. So you had that much control over it. But when you started doing more and more shows, like I started Knicks in Boston, initially it was a joke. It was supposed to be a tax write-off. They tried to sabotage it. That used to be a steak joint. Really? Yeah, Knicks steak joint.

03:19And so when we did it, one week the stage would collapse. Next week there'd be no sound. Next week no lighting. The doors would be locked. But then eventually more and more people coming in. Then they got upset because we were getting in the way of the people going to the steak pot. And then they said, well, maybe we can make money on this. We'll go upstairs. There was an upstairs there. And that was used only on one night of the week for Greek belly dancers where they were paid $200. The next was $200 In fact, these The production They brought in their own liquor So they only made $200 For the whole liquor So once we went up there To one show Then the show And eventually And around the time When you came in We were doing five shows On my night On Saturday night Five shows in the same place Upstairs and downstairs Yeah, I remember that That was before I was getting paid

04:11So I was really an amateur But I remember watching There was a show In the upstairs room Right And then there was a smaller downstairs room, and then there was another time where they did it in the disco, right? They had – which is – it is a disco now, I think, right? Well, if it is, it's a very sad disco. Well, it was sad then, too. Yes. But it was strange that everyone was cycling from room to room. Right, and you go from upstairs to downstairs. And again, the first week we tried that with the fire show, you were trying to host. It was impossible to go both parties. I mean, the guy on the side of the stage would go, you're supposed to be on downstairs. I just started up here. And it was so confusing that you'd get on stage and you'd say, good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Have I already said that?

04:58It got to the point, and also with the few drinks involved by the fifth show, yeah, with some repetition sometimes. Well, that was the thing that was also about, that was interesting about Boston comedy was that the partying. Like, you guys were a bunch of fucking savages. I mean, that's what I remember. Yeah, it was pretty widespread at that point. But again, we didn't know. And almost all of us got in trouble with the IRS because you get paid in cash. Right. And then you just kind of forgot. That's what I said until when I got called in. I hadn't paid taxes in seven years, and I got called in. And I said to the guy, I thought it was humorous. I said, well, I forgot. And he didn't think that was that humorous at all. So that went on and on and on and on and on to finally get that cleared up. How did they catch you on something like that? How did they calculate?

05:47Because I was on the cover of a calendar magazine in the Boston Globe. There was a group shot of about eight, ten of us. And there was my picture. And this guy had the picture when he confronted me. He goes, how come we don't know anything about this? Did they pay for this? What do you do for me? Used to be a teacher. Where's that money? So, yeah. So that was how I got caught. So the little bit of infamy of fame, I guess, that I had, just went to knock me down. Yeah, everybody got done in with the IRS. I know Donovan, he got done in. Oh, the whole crew. The whole crew. Everybody. How do you clear that up? Like how do they decide how much you owe? Oh, that's certainly – that's a give-and-take type of situation. They have an appeasement thing. I mean I had guys knocking on my door at 7 o'clock in the morning and then you'd have to meet with this guy.

06:36And then that guy would get fired and would start all over again and lawyers. Yeah, it wasn't pretty. But it finally got cleared up. They took X money. They knew that they weren't going to get the whole thing, so they took some of them. How many years did it take to clear it up? For me, it was quite about four or five years, I think. Wow. Yeah. Jesus Christ. How much did they hit you for overall? At one point, I was a little behind. I think it was $128,000. And that was the figure that they came up with. But 80% of that was in interest on the fact that they didn't pay them the $400. Right. That $400 would go up to $1,500. So that's how the deal was. But somebody thought it was a gold mine to attack the entertainers, and that was us. Once they got one, they got another and another, and the dominoes kept flowing. Did anybody skate? Did anybody wind up actually paying their taxes?

07:28Oh, almost all of us are still. But did anybody not get in trouble? Oh, yeah. There were a few of those intelligent people. Like who? Well, the ones that had families. Oh, okay. Yeah. The normal ones, I guess. That actually paid. Yeah, the ones that were not at those parties. There was a thing about you guys, though. For us young guys coming up, you guys were like Peter Pans. You were living this life. Boston's a very blue-collar place, right? Very hard-working place, all of New England. and we stumbled in as amateurs as open micers to this environment that you know where you guys were the kings and you guys were fucking wild men like there's we heard those stories nicks would pay in coke and it's just everybody was drinking all the time and it was like everyone was laughing and yelling and I was like how is this possible how do these men get to live this life and when I was

08:27doing I first I was a high school teacher yeah I was so I was teaching and doing this that getting out of the clubs at 3 or 4 in the morning and then attempting to be a teacher about 3 or 4 hours later. When did you quit? I got out of teaching in 84, I think. So I did maybe cross over the two together. And that was a rough patch there because I knew something had to give. And I tell the story that I was coming home from teaching and not from the clubs at night, but teaching. And I fell asleep at the wheel, and this was on the highway, and I was hitting the stanchions on the side of the highway, bang, bang, bang, bang. And eventually, as I'm going down this gully, you know, are they passing in front of you? No, what passed in front of me was, how am I going to make it to the show tonight? And my head went through the windshield, the whole deal. I came up, climbed up out of the gully.

09:19I'm trying to thumb to get home, and I've got blood running down his face. I had no idea how bad it was. And then I had to go to the hospital. So I go, my friend, we go back. I was going to get the car out of the gully. The car was total. You know, I mean, beyond total. And there's hair and blood on the windshield. And I said, oh, I better pick one job or the other. So the comedy won out. Did they have open mic nights in 79? Oh, no. In 79, no. When you first started, what was it like? Well, the first night, there was only one place in existence, and that was the Comedy Connection. The little one? The one on Warrenton Street. Yeah. Yeah, probably. Yeah, 150 seats at 2. Yeah. And two guys ran that. I think Sean Morey was the guy that had been on The Tonight Show. So that's, in our days, that was like, oh, my God.

10:06So he ran a comedy class, and two guys took the class, Billy Downs and Paul Barkley. And they decided that, you know, maybe we'll do this comedy thing. But, again, people didn't know what a comedy club was. You mentioned that. Like when Jay Leno was way before us, there were no comedy clubs. He worked in maybe strip joints or like at an auto place or this or that. There was no place to go. And even people would say, what's a comedian? Other than watching TV, you didn't know really what stand-up comedy was even. So the beginning of it started off slow. And I remember my first paycheck. Once I got paid, $8. That was your first? $8, yeah. Wow. And I still have that. I have a copy of the check. Do you really? No, a copy of it. I actually cashed it. I needed the $8. Of course. So that was what Billy Downs and Barkley did there. And in those days, you auditioned instead of an open mic night.

11:03So it was just the two of them. And I had to go in front of them. And I looked at the two of them. I said, I don't really like this. Because I said, no, at least one of you two are not going to understand what I'm doing. Because you really don't look like a brain trust. And I got hired. And I immediately was really good. And the next show I did was really good. I'm doing the same 10 minutes because I was a bartender and had some patter. Right. And the third one, they called me like a night before and said, you know, somebody fell out. Can you come in? And what I had done, I had written 15 minutes of comedy that day. Sure I have. You know, but in my mind, that's what I thought. And it was the worst death of the world. That 15, I got about two minutes in. And people always say, you know, what happens when you bomb? Well, you don't really mom after you've been doing this for a while.

11:50But that two or three minutes seems like an eternity. It seemed like hours. And then I just went back into some of the old stuff. And I get out. And I actually got into a fist fight with Lonnie Clark about it. Because he kept on saying to me, do you work in New York? I said, I've never been on the stage before in my life. And so we weren't friends at all at the beginning. And we got into a little to-go over that. You guys had a fist fight? Well, he said, yeah. He said, oh, that was a great set. He was shitting on me. And his friend saw him, he was witnessing the fight, and broke it up. And he says to Lenny, he goes, he said, what's all about this? He said, you just said he had a good show. He sucked. He knows it. And you're being an asshole to call him out. And then maybe we became fast friends after that. That's hilarious. Yeah. Lenny was the second guy I ever got paid to open for.

12:40Really? Yeah. The first guy was, god damn it. uh warren mcdonald mcdonald yes wow right bill mcdonald's brother uh it was uh george mcdonald's brother yeah wasn't there bill mcdonald no it was george mcdonald was the host of the the open mic night he could have been yeah yeah wasn't there a bill mcdonald too didn't they have another brother named bill uh not that no no I'm fucking it up no kevin kevin was a uh a fighter kevin mcdonald that's right kevin wound up going away for a little bit yeah he visited That's a couple places. A couple places. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. That's right. Okay, I fucked it up. Right. But I opened up for Warren. Right. I opened up for Warren in a Norm LaFoe gig in Western Massachusetts. Very good memory. Yeah. I remember that one. Yeah. Well, yeah, Warren was one of the original way back guys. Yeah.

13:29And then another Norm LaFoe gig was when I opened up for Lenny. Wow. That was Jay's in Pittsfield. Did you ever do that one? I don't remember that one. No? That was a good one. Really? Yeah, it was a good one. Three and a half hours away. And well worth it. Yes. Well, it was for me because I got to know Lenny and Mike. And just to get on stage time. Yeah. Just to get on the stage. Yeah. Yeah. Because there were so few places that were, in effect, doing comedy. But during the time when I was an open miker, things exploded. I was very fortunate. That was when there was three clubs on Warrington Street alone. Right. Right? There was Nick's. There was The Connection. And then there was a Comedy Club of the Charles above The Connection. Yeah, the Duck Soup. That was across the street. Yeah. Yeah. But do you remember when Mike had the Comedy Club of the Charles?

14:12above the comedy connection for a brief period of time yeah yeah so there was three and then there was duck soup that was on the other side so it was four all within like 100 yards crazy and they were all packed yeah and their lines would be out on the street the middle of winter I remember going out at my show on a saturday there's people there were two inches of snow on their head and I'm going you're actually waiting to see me there's something wrong with you people well it was something magical about those times because comedy clubs just overall were only a couple decades old in the whole country I mean you had the earliest ones were like comedy magic club comedy connection catch rising star in new york right you had a couple of clubs that were open before you know before the the boston explosion but this is all real recently so like imagine an art form

15:01that takes over the entire country, and it really only started in the year 2000. Yeah, from the inception to the explosion, it was not a mature art form, maybe 10 years, 12 years. Right, you got Lenny Bruce in the 50s, George Carlin in the 60s, prior, and then all of a sudden, you're in the 1980s. It's a couple of decades. And these clubs were fucking packed. I mean, I really wish somebody had done a documentary on it back then because it was such a strange time. If you could get real footage. I know Fran Salamita had that one documentary when stand-up stood out. But I would like to have just shown like how crazy it was. People were scalping tickets. Yeah. I said, oh my God. But it wasn't anywhere else like that. Chicago never had an explosion like that. Boston had the weirdest explosion. Yeah. And there was a multitude of people that were talented. Yes. It wasn't just a few.

16:02There was a lot. Because I used to go down to New York, and New York had a scene, and L.A. had a scene, but nothing as expansive as that. And Oz started after those two had already been done. Yeah, the Boston scene was a different animal because you could work everywhere. The thing is you could work in town, and you can get paid in town. You could do all the different places, Played Against Sam's, Stitches, all those different clubs. But then there was all these satellite rooms, all the Dick Doherty rooms, and all the Connection had rooms, and Boston Comedy had rooms. They were everywhere. There was hundreds of rooms. And they were good rooms. And then I think that the demise, at least from the real apex, I think, came when the comedians were no longer running the clubs. You know, as owners came in and the greed factor and every corner store.

16:53You know, a tire company would go out of business. Oh, that's a comedy club now. or the gas station, bowling alleys. How many bowling alleys did we work in in those days? So why not? And I think what happened was it gets so diluted that people would go to a show and say, I don't know what all this is all about, this furrow, because they didn't get to see the good community. Right. Well, there was about 12 of you. There was like 12 murderers who would just run around. And to this day, I swear, I tell everybody, I think they're the best comics I've ever seen in my life to this day. There was moments at Nick's Comedy Stop and at Stitches where I'm like, that is about as good as stand-up comedy ever gets. And some of those moments, like the comedy stop, Nick's Comedy Stop used to do a dirty trick when a famous comedian would come into town. An outsider.

17:45They would have some poor bastard like, you know, like, you know, fill in the blank. You don't even need to name it. Just someone who didn't do comedy that often. Richard Lewis, let's say him. And he would be the headliner. But before him would be you and Sweeney and Kenny Rogerson and Donovan. And it would just be a murderer's row of fucking savages. Yeah, Mike McConnell. Yes, yes. And these poor bastards. I came to Nick's Comedy Stop right after Billy Crystal had bombed. I came up the stairs and they were talking about it. Like you guys had set them up and, you know, people were saying like, you never seen nothing like in your life. This poor guy's a movie star and he went on stage and just ate plates of shit. Yeah. After, yeah. After five people had just been destroyed. Destroying for an hour. Right.

18:36Like, so you got like each guy's doing 15 minutes and you've got all these guys going up there just. And it wasn't unintentional. It was, you know, why is this guy in our town? Yes. Yeah. That's it. Well, that was the thing about Boston. like when a guy came into town like if you do stand up in any like you do stand up in philadelphia like if you showed up in philip people go oh let's go see don gavin they would want to go see you you do stand up in boston you're from out of boston everybody's like fuck this guy they just just set him up and the club would set him up that was what was so crazy well the reason the reason they would bring these other outsiders and they would get plugs possibly for on the Tonight Show or something like that. None of us were on the scene or on the radar. So they would bring in like George Miller was the guy I remember. You know, nice sweetheart of a guy.

19:24But he was just, what you said, running the gauntlet before he got on. What did those guys think when they watched that? They must have been fucking terrified. Richard Lewis went on TV almost in tears complaining about, and they put all these guys in there. I don't know where they cut all these guys in there. And they did it the first night, and then they did it the second night, I don't understand what they have against me. And I think she said, well, maybe they're funnier. You know, it's one of those comments. Yeah, well, it was a dog-eat-dog world there. You had to be able to survive in Boston. And the tension span, like the way the stand-up was, it's like they didn't let you guys, like I should say they, you didn't let anybody breathe. There's a Boston style of comedy. It's like, here's a fucking punchline. Here's another punchline. Here's another punchline. Take a breath.

20:09Boom, there's another one. And these other guys that would come in from out of town were not accustomed to that style of performing. More laconic and more like this. And I was told that I talked 70 words a minute, gusts to 100. And I have, you know, one of those VHS tips where I play some of those one time recently. I'm going, I have no idea. Oh, I know there's people laughing, but I have no idea what I was saying. I'm going, oh, my God. Yeah. Well, you had sneaky punchlines. You would sneak punchlines in. It would look like you were done, and the sides would come in, and boom. Or a tag here and a tag there and move over there. Did you just develop that style on your own? Yeah, I didn't. Again, what don't I know about style? That's just the way it was. I was always a fast talker. You know, you come from big Irish families, and if you don't talk fast,

20:59you're not going to get the bread or you're not going to get the food. So I had three brothers, and downstairs my cousins lived, and there were six there. So it was always bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. to that and was all everybody was an irish catholic basically that was on the comedy scene you know yeah it was certainly not homogenized by any means well that's also interesting too because it was in a lot of places it was more of a jewish thing sure sure but boston it wasn't boston it was like a lot of and big guys too that was the other thing everybody was like six foot three everybody's a big-ass fucking gorilla yeah and they're all doing coke and drinking and it's like whoa this is a crazy place it was almost like well you better be funny and also if a fight breaks that you'll be better better be good at that yeah I just be sort of good at but certainly

21:45you're not backing down but that was this thing about it's like comedy in a lot of people's eyes is thought to be something that like nebbishy you know sort of insecure people get involved in you guys were all fucking savages so it was weird for me because like people would say oh I always felt like comedians hated themselves they're all real insecure I'm like I didn't really see that like not where I started I can remember Battle at the Ding Hall I mean it was a pretty good brouhaha and it started I think it started outside the club as they were coming in and it emanated that it was inside and outside at the same time and at the end we were ending but finished doing the show and at the end all people were talking but nothing about the show was just about hey man that tingle really held his own didn't he you know I said you know see so and so it's got two headlocks

22:35and going, what about the show? Oh, yeah, that was good. But I didn't let them do it. There was a lot of brawls. I remember brawls. I remember a lot of brawls breaking out of clubs. But it was just, to me, I didn't realize how lucky I was to start there in 1988. I really didn't. Well, when you came in, I always thought when you came in, I'm saying, wow, this guy has got something. But I thought it was a little too dirty. I thought that wasn't going to work for you. But you knew kind of, you had it in your head what you had to do. You knew that you had to measure up or you could be pushed to the side when you came in. Don't you agree with that? Well, there was not much room. You had to be good. If you wanted to go from being an open mic or to hosting or to getting a gig on the road, you had to be good. Boston didn't leave you any room for scrubs. There was too many. Right.

23:29Too many good comics. Yeah. That was definitely dirty. But that's all I was interested in. You know, I mean, like when I was 21, I was a fucking savage. All I cared about was sex. Yeah. Sex came from fighting. Yeah. So like, that's all I, I didn't know anything. It would fit in though. Yeah. What I thought was funny was, you know, just, it was kind of fun. And I was talked into doing comedy by guys that I trained with. Right. So I didn't think that I was funny. I didn't think I was going to be funny. I made them laugh, but I thought, well, you guys are fucking psychos. Of course I'm making you laugh. My sense of humor is wrong. It's all fucked up. They're going to think I'm an asshole. So I was talked into doing it. And the first comedy show that I ever saw, I went to Stitch's open mic night. Sure. And I went and watched.

24:11And I remember sitting there watching all these guys go up on stage and seeing people doing it for the first time. And I realized, oh, a lot of people suck. Like, you could do this. Yeah, I'm better than that guy. I'll probably be better than some of these people at least. Yeah, when I first came in, that audition thing I talked about, I went in. A number of those people we're talking about were on stage. And I was prepared to do this audition. I was with this girl at the time, and she goes, what about the audition? I go, no, no, I don't think so. So I just left. I didn't even explain it. And I went back the next week, and again, real good guys. But there was one guy, I won't mention his name. You wouldn't know the name. But I'm going, oh, finally, someone I know that I'm better than this guy. And that's when I auditioned that night. But he got me in the show business.

24:54I will mention his name. Gene Franz was his name. He may still be alive. I don't know. But he has no idea that he got me in the comedy. Well, Richard Jenny said that once That's the purpose that really bad comedians serve They inspire people to try it There's something real to that But I remember my first open mic night When I went up It wasn't very funny But I got to see Teddy Bergeron Teddy Bergeron performed that night And he fucking lit that place on Jonathan Katz was the host Yeah, Jonathan Katz was the host Now there's a guy you talked about that was kind of, you know, a different direction. Different style. Smooth and slow, easygoing. Yes. And yet he was a fan favorite. Yes. Hilarious. Great comic. Yeah. And then went on to do that cartoon, Dr. Katz. Yeah, which I did that. Yeah. That was fun, yeah. But watching Teddy go on stage, Teddy was in his prime. It made me want to quit.

25:51I was like, oh, Jesus Christ. Yeah, he had already been on, like, The Tonight Show and The Gold Diggers with Dean Martin and stuff. So when he was sober and on his game, wow. Oh, my God. To this day, one of the best I've ever seen. He was so smooth. Yes. I'm a polished where a lot of the other guys were rough-edged. Yes, it was different. And he had more pauses. And he was slow at pace. And he dressed well. Yes. And, yeah, he almost stood out just because of that. But it was kind of classy. He looked like he could do no wrong. So when he would have a problem with drugs and alcohol, I was so confused. I was like, how, that guy? Yeah. I was like, that guy's the smoothest ever. Yeah. Because, you know, when I saw him, he was like in his 30s. He was young and just fucking on top of it. Right. I got a chance to work with him a bunch of times. Yeah.

26:41Weird gigs, like the Mattapoisette Inn and a bunch of- How do you remember all these names? I don't know. It's my curse. There's a bunch of strange names for places stuck in my head. Well, we had all the places down the Cape and the one night is. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Those were great, though. I mean, boy, you talk about seasoning. You would get a lifetime's worth of seasoning on the road just traveling all these different places and seeing all these different weird bar crowds and standing on a fucking milk crate doing stand-up into a shitty microphone. All those gigs. And once I got into it full time, that encompassed – that was your whole life. And you were working six nights, maybe seven nights a week in probably five or six different venues. Yes. That's where you were. And sometimes three or four venues in the same evening. Yeah.

27:24You get in the car and go over here and go over there and go over there. I mean, I don't know how many years it was before I realized you could date someone that was not a waitress. I wasn't even aware of that. Yeah, that was a weird ecosystem, right? It was like comics and waitresses, hand in hand. Yeah. Wow. You know, we were just so fortunate that we were from, that we started our comedy in Boston because it was a magic time. And when I would talk to people that are from, like, Arizona, like, how'd you start out? Like, well, I had to drive two hours to Tucson. Sure. Like, fuck. Yeah. There was nothing. I was told that when I moved out here for a brief period of time, I lived in Studio City. I was told that I would be driving sometimes two hours to make $100. I go, yeah, right, right. And four months later, I'm driving two and a half hours to make $75.

28:12I'm going, wow, somebody knew what was going on here. When I thought I was coming out and signed with an agency, Spotlight was the name of the agency. Oh, I remember that. Everybody was supposed to be Spotlight. Those are the people that ripped everybody off, right? They promised everything and never delivered on the word. And so I was one of the few that owed them money because I heard something was going south. So when they finally called me in and looked to get lawyers involved, and I sent them a note back saying, dear so-and-so, I know that I owe you $35,000. Just take it off what you owe on a clock and we'll be all set. They owed him like 80 grand or 100 grand. They owed him a lot more than that. Maybe more than that, yeah. But I said, just take it off from that. Never heard from him again. I think they beat millennial for over a million dollars

28:57yes they beat Seinfeld they beat everybody Seinfeld too that's right yeah there was one agent that was a dirty agent that was pocketing all the money there was a bunch of those situations like that though right Bob Williams was still in the business out of Branson oh Branson that's right Lenny told me about this that's right yeah fucking Jesus Christ I don't know if he changed his name or whatever he changed the industry but he's in Branson apparently doing quite well. You never paid everybody back? No, no, no. Wow. How is that? Just clean. Oh, my God. Somebody owed me a million dollars? Ooh. Yeah, but they used to have this thing, you know, do you like money? You want the same with this? We'll give you, you'll make this and this, and it was contractually written. How old were you back then? Oh, I didn't start comedy until I was 33. Wow. So that was much later.

29:48I had been a teacher and a coach, and I had two kids, And so I got into this much later than most people. What brought you into it? I think probably because I was usually reasonably funny in life. And then as a bartender, I was a wise guy bartender, you know. And like, for instance, people would sit. I only had 22 seats. Four guys would sit and say, what's your cheapest beer? I said, root beer. Get the fuck up. Screw. You know. I said, those seats. I said, if you tip me $20 before you order, then you can sit there. And then people would do it. So that kind of mushroomed that way there. But yeah, it was, again, the same aggressive bullshit thing. So it was easy to carry that on into the stage. But I had never been on a stage. I thought it was kind of like you were the feebish type people, you know, doing stage stuff, you know. Yeah, I like how you danced around the words there. Feebish.

30:42I think I made a word up even. Yes. It was effeminate. What else? Yes, it was not for manly men. Yes, not at all. But I was playing basketball in college, and I was waiting either to get picked up to go to the gym or whatever. And there was a play going on in rehearsals at this college. And I'm watching them going. And it really pissed me off that two of the actors didn't seem to be putting their effort into it. And I don't know why, but I'm going, I can do better than that. So that was one of the things in the back of my head about being in this theater. But I had never been. I never had a mic in my hand. And I used to wear loose pants because I could see my legs shaking. And that's why, you know, my act, I sit on the stool most of the time. So that way they wouldn't see me, you know, in effect being, you know, for the first year or so being. You shook that much? I think so, yeah.

31:32No, not in the drug. And, but the, and taking the mic out of the mic stand, I thought they, the rattling. There's nothing worse than seeing a comedian up there doing, you know, this thing, bang, bang, bang. Were the drugs there from the beginning? let me think pretty much yeah pretty much it's like in the old it's like in the old days you know the story about your mother says don't you know if somebody offers you a drug don't take them I said well they don't offer you you have to buy them but initially you didn't have to buy them that was the thing everybody everybody was doing it it's like smoking when I was growing up as a kid 95% of people smoked and why because everybody ever smoked You know, I stopped smoking in the year 2000. Mike Clark and I had a bit. And none of us were having had a cigarette since. So apparently I wasn't addicted, but everybody smoked.

32:24So the same thing in those days. Everybody was either a drinker or doing the blow or smoking the bones. You had at least two or three vices. A lot of deck chairs to throw off, you know. Did you have any of those vices before you got into stand-up? No, I think it grew. It pretty much blossomed once I got in there. Now that I think of it. Yeah, I used to smoke, but nothing else. Drinking? Not heavily at all. Not heavily. And I covered up for it. I made up a lot of ground. I mean, now all the guys are AA. I'm like the only one left drinking. And I notice there's much more liquor everywhere I go. There's always liquor. Yeah, everybody cleaned up. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they're looking at you like you're the last Mohican. Yeah, it's like Bobby Nickman, the comedian and the writer.

33:13And he said that he first got into AA because he needed the stage time, you know, to take it up and talk in front of a crowd. But he was one of the first guys that kind of cleaned up. And then this guy and then this guy. And there's very few of them. Well, a lot of guys came from AA and that's how they got their start. Do you remember Dave Fitzgerald? Oh, sure. Funny guy. Yeah. He got into comedy from Alcoholics Anonymous because he would go up on stage and tell these crazy old drinking stories and people would laugh. And then he polished those stories up. Sure. Made them tighter and then started doing stand-up. Yeah. But when you, we'll say in the mid-'80s, the early-'80s, if you weren't a drinker, you were the exception to the rule again. Wow. So you weren't a drinker before. Not really. You just started hanging out with these guys. I'm not blaming any of them on it. No.

34:03Hey, look, I'm not even. But was it right away? Like, just you walked into this lion's den of people doing drugs? Who was the fucking, who was patient zero? Like who – because it wasn't that many of you, right? Well, I think that it came to a culmination at the Ding Ho because we basically ran and owned the place. And we'd stay there until – I can remember walking out of there many times going, oh, beautiful. It's not even light out yet. It'd be 6.30 in the morning. Right. But we were serving drinks. And half the people, there'd be 10, 12 comedians sitting around and four or five other guys. And the other guys are cops. They're in there drinking with us too. So we weren't going to get busted. I mean, Kenny Ryden first got there. He walked in the door there. He got there, I don't know how, but he got there around 2 in the morning. And there's six or seven of us.

34:54They're either smoking joints, doing some wine, drinking. And we're up on the stage playing cards for money. And he goes, what is this place? Paradise. He had no idea. Someone said, well, where do you want for a drink? He goes, well, who are the tequila drinkers? And everybody goes, nobody. So then he's getting into other stuff. And he made up for lost time, too. That was what we'd always heard about the Ding Ho, like it was like some legendary place. You know, when we were starting out, it closed in like 84 or something? I don't know. Maybe, yeah, right around that. I started in 88, and we had heard about the Ding Ho. it was like it was spoken in hushed tones yeah it was like you know that's where it started well it closed in a heartbeat because the the owner lost lost the club and playing chinese dominoes

35:44no he lost 240 000 in one night and it was my night then I had my show there on fridays I come in and I never saw uh chains or padlocks bigger than that in the front and back door never to be reopened as a comedy club it became a uh indian restaurant or something but it just went playing Chinese, I don't even know what Chinese dominoes are. That's good, probably. God, I mean, it's crazy how something like that can happen where there is just this one place and one core group of people, and then the comedy club scene branches out from that. Like, Houston used to have this place called The Laugh Stop. Did you ever work there? Sure, you did, yeah. Yeah, that was the same thing for Houston. Houston had a great scene. Houston was a little crazy with people, too. It was wild. Yeah. Yeah, and when I first went there, it was when it was at its wildest.

36:33It was after Kinison had gone, and Bill Hicks had left, and all those guys were gone. Yeah, Colobo was another guy. Yeah, yeah. Jimmy Pineapple. Jimmy worked with me the first time I ever did a weekend there. And the first time I was ever there, I was like, wow, this place is a lot like Boston. These are a bunch of wild fucks. They had a show going on in the main room, and then in the bar area, they had another stage, and the open mic night started at 8, went until 2 o'clock in the morning. So you get done with your show. The show would be over at 10, and you go out to the bar, and you'd be fucking hanging out there for another four hours because the show's still going on. It was crazy. It was crazy. I remember a good story there. You used to walk from the hotel to the venue, and it was all the cowboys basically down there. So I'm walking. I get hit in the back with the water balloon,

37:20but you would have thought I was shot by a rhino gun. Bang! I was soaking wet. When I get there, I had to put on one of their T-shirts. And I'm going, I can't believe how this guy hit me that could. But when I get to the club, I see the car. It was recognizable. I go, oh, they're coming to see me. So I went inside, got a hammer, and went out during the show in the opening. I broke every window in their car, including the directionals, the side thing. And I commented on the stand-up. I got hit by this wall. I said, whoever did it, nobody took the climb. I said, what a great aim you had. But I didn't mention about their car. That's hilarious. Did you go out and watch? Oh, yeah. Check what they do? They were not. I mean, I broke those little tiny, you know, directions on the side of the car. I mean, every window. Because anybody can flatten their side. Yes.

38:12If you break every single window, that's an accomplishment. That is an accomplishment, and that's a lot of work to get that fixed. Yeah, it was. Especially with no lookouts. You can change a tire pretty quickly. Yeah, you had no lookouts, right? But that scene The Houston scene was similar In that there was a lot of drugs involved And a lot of really funny comics And aggressive too Yeah, very aggressive Yeah, well, Texas, you know Wild fuckers down there But when that club closed That scene died out for a long time It's apparently It's got a resurgence now The scene's coming back There's some real good comics coming out of there right now But that scene was dead For a long time It wasn't much going on down there. And I was like, that's interesting how a scene, like a place as good as Houston, could close down with one club.

39:00One club goes under and the whole thing just throws water in the fire. I believe that happened in Chicago. Chicago used to be a terrific city. It was my favorite city to travel to. It's a folk comedy. They had an improv. They had a catch. They had the Laugh Factory. They had, you know, not just Second City because that's different. And that was the same thing. Zanees, I think, is the only one that's still in existence there. Yeah. And that went off the cliff right away, too. And again, I blame owners, greed, and not paying people, and things of that type. Well, they start treating it like any other business. Yes. Comedy clubs are— It became that business. It's an asylum that needs to be run by the inmates. Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly it. And when we ran it, when I booked all these shows, it didn't seem to be any problem.

39:44And again, we weren't making much money, but we didn't seem to care. Whatever you made, you spent. So if you had $800 in your pocket Wow, I got $800 Not thinking about I guess I might want to eat next week too Next week is next week Yeah, that's way in the future The way the comedy store works is essentially that way I mean Mitzi obviously ran it But she let the comedians run it for the most part She let everybody work out Their own issues And solve their own problems And she would just book you She would just tell you when to go up And it was just a madhouse and to this day still very similar is it still the same oh it's packed every fucking night now now it's crazy because the internet now people hear about it and they know about it and you got people flying in from Australia and England and Ireland just to come down and see comedy all the time all the time always meeting people there

40:32they basically have comedy tourism from Europe they fly in to the comedy store like any night of the week because the comedy store on Monday they'll post the schedule for the week and so people read the schedule and they go alright let's fly in on Tuesday. So they'll fly from fucking England, 11 hour flight and come and see, see comedy. Wow. Because there's no comedy club. Like they have a comedy store over there in London, but it's not affiliated. They just stole the name and they skirted into international law by, you know, it's like they made their own seven 11. We're seven 11 too. Like it's not the same thing. I don't know what the comedy is like over there in terms of the comedy store, but you know, they, when they want to come here, they, they fly. And so on any given night you run into people that are from all over the world. Wow. Yeah, it's crazy. You should come. Yeah.

41:18You should come just to see it. You know, years ago, way back, but I haven't been around these times. It's different now. It's fucking madness. Yeah. Lines around the block. I mean, it's like in a lot of ways, it's like Nick's in the heyday. Three rooms. There's the original room, the belly room, and the main room. All three of them are going at the same time. Multiple shows a night. Fucking madness. Wow. Yeah, it's nuts, but without the coke. There's no coke, no fights. Really? Yeah, it's pretty tame. That used to be a pretty scary denizen out in the back there. Yes, it used to be. Yeah, it's much more common. There's a lot of marijuana. That's about it. Okay. A lot of weed. Sometimes mushrooms, but that's about it. Oh, okay. Yeah, so nothing too crazy. Yeah. But it's funny that when we were doing it, even though we were doing it for a living, it seemed like it wasn't a business. Yeah.

42:07Like that's why I'm promoting this album that I have. And I had this album done before, and it was great, but I never had anybody produce it. You know, I just made some copies of it. And it's called Don Gavin Live with the Manhattan, Live with the Manhattan. And I was almost like a bootlegger, selling them, you know, maybe a few after a show out of the back of my trunk. But finally, we're releasing it. That's one of the reasons about it now. When did you record it? I recorded it in 2011. Whoa. 10 years old. But my material hopefully doesn't get stale because I don't do a lot of current events and I don't do politics. So it's still – I mean I have some jokes that are old with some of the people that come to see me. Now did you – like when you put that out, is that the first thing that you've ever put out? Yeah, that's the only thing. And I owned it but I didn't do anything with it.

42:59So now when I get to Virtual Comedy Network with Jimmy Serpico, we did another album, a compilation of guys in Boston. And he saw, somebody says about my album. He goes, I know you have an album. And he got a copy of it. He says, oh, my God, this is something like discovering something. So he kind of came into my life to help see if we can produce this thing. And now it's on Sirius XM now and Pandora, and then it's going on all the streaming devices starting next week. But right now it's – I think they have the – what do you call it? The rights just for those two stations. So if somebody wants to get it, how do they get it? Right now they can get it on Sirius XM or Pandora. And as I think next Thursday it's on – it's streaming live. Okay, because if it's on Sirius, you have to wait for it to air, right? You can't just – Sirius doesn't stream, right? I've got to be honest.

43:55I'm not good about any of this stuff. I don't think so. Do they stream, Jamie? You can probably search it. Yeah. They have downloadable stuff and whatnot. Oh, okay. So on the app as opposed to on the actual thing in your car? Okay. Yeah, I am so – anything mechanical. Well, I'm proud that I think you sent me your first text ever. Which took me almost an hour and a half to do it. Because I go, okay, here's the T. Here's an H over here. I mean, that's how slow I was in doing that. But you used to teach. you don't know how to type? No. Now I had girlfriends. I went through a bunch of them because I had to write a lot of papers. No, I never typed one letter. So that's legitimately the first text message you ever sent? I got. And you thought it was a joke. No, Mike Clark was telling me. Yeah, it was my first. And then I sent the next one, I realized you could use the microphone thing,

44:43and it came out in some foreign language. Lots being into something that I sent to you. Well, it's because of your fucking accent. No, but this was, yeah. I know, but the iPhone's probably like, What the fuck is he saying? That's probably it, yeah. And they said, well, eventually they'll get used to your voice. Apparently not. No, it's never going to figure out your voice. No. That's for regular voices. Oh, shit. Okay. The accent's just too crazy. I still have an accent. Oh, yeah. I didn't know. A little bit. Yeah. But the thing about all those guys from that day is very few guys put things out. Barry put out a couple specials, and Louis C.K. produced one of Barry's specials. Lanny, of course, had a few things. He was on the Dangerfield special. He did some stuff. But a lot of, like Donovan. Like, how do you go find Donovan's best stuff? Like, you got to go see him. Yes, yes.

45:33That's the craziest thing about Boston. It's like, these guys are world-class stand-ups, some of the best that have ever done it. And there's no recordings. There's no specials. I think I was not unique in the fact that I was not a businessman. Yeah. We did it not just for the love. We enjoyed the money and spending money. Yeah. But it really never answered my mind. Like Jimmy was asking about, you know, how did I release this thing? I never, I don't know what you mean released it. I just made a thousand copies and I saw a few after a show and never did anything with it. You never thought once. No, I'm an idiot. But you must have seen all these HBO specials and all these different things. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, eventually. You never like, yeah, I should do one of those. Yeah, yeah, maybe I'll get discovered. at the age of 106. So now that you've done this

46:23and now that you're releasing this, do you think you'll put out more? Oh, I plan on this, hoping this is going to make a difference because for years I was called the best kept secret in Boston and in comedy. And I'm going, you know what? I'm kind of tired of that term. I'd rather not have a secret anymore. I'd like to maybe get out there. Well, you can still get out there 100%. I plan on it. The whole thing about the internet is just content. Just keep putting content out. You're a hilarious comic, so I'm sure your album's awesome. People get a hold of it, and then they'll go, hey, where's the next one? Put out another one. Next thing you know, you could tour nationally. Yeah. I really firmly believe that. I hope you're right. I guarantee you I'm right. It's just a crazy thing about that scene is that no one did that. Everybody stayed in, because the money was so good.

47:13There was so much work. And you didn't have to, yeah, you basically didn't have to go to it, because you had work there. Yeah. So in a way, it spoiled you, but in a way, it spoiled you rotten. Right. You never really attempted to make it. Some guys did get their gumption to go up to New York, and some came out to L.A., but as a rule, a lot of us just stayed in Boston. How long did you stay out here when you came out here? Oh, just about nine months. People said, what did you like about it? I said, the weather, and that was my only answer. What was it like going back? Did it feel like home? I felt like I really hadn't left. I just moved to Florida a couple weeks ago. Did you? That's the first time I've ever moved. What are you doing in Florida? Getting warm. It's a good time to move to Florida, middle of January.

47:58Yeah, well, it's going to be, hopefully once I get things unpacked, I'll enjoy it there. But there's a lot of clubs down there, and there's a lot of corporate stuff. I do a lot of the golf things and that kind of stuff. I do a lot of cruise ships, and then most of them go out of there. So it's about time I moved. and the weather primary. That's the primary one. The weather, yeah. It's a big difference. But I would think that after all these years, you're going to miss headlining the Boston clubs. I will. I will, yeah. But I've been working less and less in the Boston area because I do a whole lot of these cruise ship things, you know. And the cruise ships, that industry has become bigger and bigger and bigger. I mean, I just got off a ship, the Royal Caribbean, 6,100 passengers on it. Whoa. Yeah. That's a big boat. I live in a town in the Haunt, I don't remember that, near Marblehead.

48:453,000 people live in the whole town. Just double that on the ship. That's insane. Yeah. Do you like doing those cruise ships? I enjoy it. A lot of downtime you can read and write. Like you said, maybe a second of them. Yeah, I've got material for it, so we'll see if we can get that first one up and running. How do you write? Do you just sit down? Do you just sit down with an idea, or do you have an idea ahead of time? you jot them down like in little notes and then try to flesh it out? Yeah, like this, just this thing. Oh, like you got right there? Yeah, whatever, that type of thing. Like I'm simple, this is not a whole joke, but just the other day I'm thinking about stoners, you know, and it's just, why can't we just all get a bomb? So I thought that was fun. Not that good. I didn't say it was good. You write stuff, you throw it away. I get it. It's thrown away.

49:36These ideas pop in your head and you write them down And then do you flesh them out on stage Or do you flesh them out on paper On stage But you know that Some new thing You have to figure where am I going to incorporate You're not going to put it first You're not going to close with it You've got to weave it in somehow Sometimes I'll open with the thing Really That's kind of ballsy Because I want to dig a hole Sometimes I feel like I know I've got some good jokes That I can do after this But you've got the notoriety and fame Do you feel that that is a strike against you, that they're going to be acceptable to everything? Is that why you've— It's a strike against you if you eat shit. Yeah. That's when it's a strike against you. But if you open with something that you're not sure of, yeah. Well, I've got to know there's something there before I do that.

50:23But I like to do that sometimes because maybe four out of ten times, a punchline will fucking pop into my head out of nowhere and it'll be good. one of my best bets from my last special about Harvey Weinstein came the day he got arrested the day the shit went down I went on stage that day and I had a couple drinks I was feeling good and I just went on this rant about it and this is not something you had already written out? no, no, I had a couple sort of ideas about where I was going to take it and basically the gist of it was that if like all of you if harvey weinstein did this to my daughter I'd want to fuck him up like all of you I go but if harvey weinstein was a woman if harvina weinstein came to my son with a solid contract I'd be like dude you're gonna be batman and this is the this is the gist

51:21of the bit and I'm telling you that dude you're gonna be batman came out wow just came out on stage and the day he was arrested everybody's going fucking crazy it was and then I was saying like nobody nobody gives a fuck it was an ugly old lady that was fucking handsome young men nobody would be mad right nobody would be mad right and it just became this giant chunk of that I'm like I'm mad at that guy he's disgusting fuck him lock him up forever but if harvina weinstein and then so this did the audience believe that you just didn't know or did they know that you just came up but at that point well they knew that it couldn't be old because the thing just happened yeah but sometimes like four out of ten times that'll work right and then the other six out of ten times you go well so much for that yeah but it's like the only way new jokes get made

52:06is chances get taken and the biggest chance is to go up first with it just open with it I'm gonna have to attempt that I don't do it all the time but I feel like the first couple of lines anywhere more like just saying hi and getting to know everybody and every now and then you throw one out there and it sticks and you gotta go oh I got something there I record all my sets I'll listen I was going to say, would you have trouble remembering if you did a particular thing? Yeah, because especially if you have a couple of drinks in you and you're just riffing, you don't remember exactly what you said because you're in the moment. You can't go, oh, I got to remember that because then you'll break the spell. My son Chris does that to me all the time saying, dad, is that something new? I go, no, I just said it. He goes, well, you got to write this shit down.

52:44Well, Donovan is the guy who convinced me to record all my sets. Donovan told me, get a tape recorder. He had all this fucking brick that he would bring on stage with him. He goes, you never know. He goes, you'll have a line, just one line, and that line will make your bed 10 times better. And if you fucking forget it, it's gone forever. It's like when you have one when you're in bed and you think of something. If you don't get up and write it down or if you don't record it that next morning, you try to remember that. Good luck to you. When I'm with my family, if I get an idea in my head, I just say to my wife, got an idea. And I just run away. I run away. I'll run like a block away and just start talking into my phone. Because if I don't, it'll go away. Because I've had so many times like, oh, that's a good idea. And then my dog was like, dad, stop touching me.

53:32They fight with each other. My wife was like, what are we doing? And I'm like, hold on. I got an idea. Stop, stop, stop. So now when I get this idea, I just go, I've got an idea. I just go. And then I come back. I got a good idea. This is a good idea. This is solid. Okay, I'm back. I like it. And then I'll put my phone in my pocket. But having a phone is the best because you got a notebook. You got a fucking recording device. It's all that. I used to keep a real notebook. But it takes too long to write shit down. you lose it sometimes but if you say it into the voice notes you actually say the idea then you can keep it you can capture it but that means you have to carry a phone yes you don't carry a phone I'm an idiot you don't carry a phone at all I do now but now that I'm trying to be aware of what's going on I mean up until like two years ago I had a real deluxe flip phone you know

54:15there's something to be said for those too though the flip phones are nice you can certainly avoid people yes that's one yeah avoid text Ari Shafir he has a flip phone he doesn't well actually doesn't now he actually went back to an iphone but he put a timer on it so he could only use his phone for an hour well yeah because otherwise he starts playing with his phone and going on the internet and going to social media apps you don't have any social media do you uh we will soon oh we're in the process now that's it that's the deal so 2020 yeah yeah I'm kind of a slow mover like a turd of racers by me are you gonna do it all yourself are you going to post tweets and all that shit yourself? Oh, shit. I don't know about that. I just found out about Instagram today. I thought there was a pill that you took. I'm on Instagram now as of yesterday. Oh, what is it? Just Don Gavin?

55:06Comedian Don Gavin. How many pictures you got up there? Oh, at least four. Is there a regular Don Gavin other than comedian Don Gavin? You mean to reach me? No, a different person that has the regular Don Gavin. Jamie says yes, a different guy. Well, somebody, yeah. Somebody in the old days, people would buy your names. Yes. And I contacted the guy. He wanted $7,500 for my name. Really? And I'm going, my name's not worth that. So I never paid him. Oh. Yeah. So is that how that works? Yeah. Yeah, I had to pay for mine. I bought mine. Somebody had mine. I bet you make money. Yeah. The whole thing about the Instagram is like everything else on the internet. It's just continual content. Keep putting out content. Keep putting things out. That's the whole thing. It's just you got to just be consistent. Then it'll build. I hope. Listen, coming off this podcast, I guarantee you it'll help

55:54I know you were on Fitzsimmons' show earlier today, right? Right, and I did a couple Who was it? Mark Maron's another one And Billy, Billy Burr Oh, nice, beautiful You did the trifecta Trifecta plus one There it is, look at you Don Gavin Comedy That's what it is, folks Godfather of Boston Comedy Don't tell that to Dick Daugherty, he'll get mad at you He did try to keep that title back and I said, I actually help people. You tell me one time that you actually, a godfather, when someone came to you and said, can you give me advice? Can you help me write? Can you help me work out this material? I spent time doing that. I said, you never did in your life. Don't ever call yourself the godfather again. And he hasn't. Whoa. He stopped calling himself that? Yeah. To you? I don't think he calls himself that anywhere. Really? Yeah. Not anymore. But that was always his thing.

56:46Well, this thing is gone. He gave me a lot of gigs. I have nothing but love for that guy. I was starting out. Yeah, he gave me a lot of gigs. He paid my rent many times. Well, he had a lot of little clubs. Yeah. Like his satellite clubs. Yeah. The huts. Comedy huts. Yeah. The Aku Aku's. He at one time was when he was a musician way back. It was already the majority. Yeah. And he was like the highest paid entertainer on Cape Cod. The crystal palace he had in it. I mean, he was big. Yeah. And then things went south. And now he's big, but physically. He's still alive? Everything's good? Yeah. he's a big fat yeah yeah kind of white okay you push your arms out like that I have a 36 inch sleeve but I can't get it out that far I did all of his gigs I did all those comedy huts you had the dick daugherty comedy huts dick daugherty comedy vault remember the vault yes yeah right

57:36there that was another one the vault was right down the street from warrenton street right far at all right right across the street there yeah yeah yeah he had a ton of rooms yes he did yeah Yeah, that's true. I mean, he did work a lot more comedians than other places. He didn't have that many avenues. Yeah. Well, he would headline you early, too. Like, where I really probably shouldn't have been headlining. Really didn't really have a solid 45. It was patched up. But Fitzsimmons and I started out together. We were like a week apart. We started a week apart from each other, open mic nights. Yeah, he mentioned that. Yeah, we did. That's funny. And you didn't know each other previous? No, no, no. We met each other at open mic night. That's funny. Yeah, both the same age. It was fun times. But we both have the same feeling.

58:24We would talk about you guys, you and all the guys that are from that era. It's just like we were very fortunate to be able to – because there was no hacks. Hacks were not tolerated in Boston. No. Yeah. And even the audience, I always thought the audience were great, but they weren't patient either. No. You had to produce and produce quickly. They had high standards, too. Yeah, hopefully. Because you guys were so good. Like, the standards of comedy, the level of comedy was very high in the town. Yeah. I remember I had a friend of mine who came to visit me from New York, and he was shocked. He was like, there's so many good comics here that nobody knows. And I was like, dude, they know him in town. They know him in Boston. These guys are selling out every fucking night. And he's like, this is crazy.

59:06And I was like, yeah, these are like the best comics in the world, and people don't know who they are. It's funny. Colin Quinn was one guy that came into Boston. And the people, but when they introduced him, he's from New York. I mean, he was getting booed before he said a word. And then he's going, oh, my God. But the crowds did eventually like him. But when he first worked there, there was a sound booth on the side of Nick's. And he hid, he got off stage and hid in the sound booth until the show was over because he didn't want to have to walk through the crowd. He was in there for over two hours. I'm not making sense. That's hilarious. Well, the first time I saw Dom Herrera was at Nick's Comedy Stop. And he went through the gauntlet and survived. Oh, the people loved him. They loved him. Well, he's lovable. Yeah. Well, he's a great guy.

59:50But he was the only national headliner that I ever saw that went through there and made it through. Yeah, yeah. And with flying colors, too. Yeah, so he killed. And even at the end of it, he said, he goes, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for coming tonight. I was amazing. You guys are pretty good. and like he just sarcastic silly way of doing comedy he was the best he fits in anywhere oh yeah yeah but he fit in boston like a glove I mean that's where first oh he's a philly guy yep and that same kind of thing he was a pretty good jock at one time he's a basketball player yeah yeah so I so he had some kind of the same type of mentality as some of them some of the people he's still fucking great yeah he's still fucking great he still kills the comedy store all the time yeah he's and he's always on the road too cool he's fantastic he's uh he's a real comic There's a few of those guys.

60:38It doesn't matter where you put them. You could put a show on the moon. Yeah, I think I got like Rock in the Pool. Sure. Just, hey, how you doing? And he gets a laugh. You kidding me? He gets a laugh for that? It's a good laugh. Yeah, yeah. I mean, when you think back on your life, could you imagine yourself ever? I mean, I know you were a teacher at one point in time, but can you imagine never having found comedy? I'm very grateful that he did find it. I think if I was teaching in a different venue where I was teaching more advanced kids, I was in a vocational school where they didn't want to do – one week they'd be in shop. The next week they'd be with me. And they didn't want to be with me. Coaching was different. I coached basketball on track, and that was terrific. And I spent most of my energy in that.

61:24So I think if I was in the right surroundings as a teacher, I would have stayed in teaching and probably have done a lot less of the evil things to my body. But maybe I wouldn't have found comedy But you've held up well Intellectually you're still there I mean I haven't seen you do stand up in a long time But I know everybody says you're still fucking killing Well it's still working And you're the one guy that's still drinking That I'm aware of But I don't really look around that much Did you ever think about quitting? No Not really Oh when I was in the hospital I had a hernia operation But then Rodgers smuggled some booze into the hospital So that was it Yeah He brought in A thing of vodka And a claw And a magnet So he was gonna He was gonna pull out The staples that I have You know those steel staples You put in when you get Stitched up He thought that was funny He went and stole

62:17A big magnet That's his idea It'd be funny But he did bring booze Into the hospital How long were you In the hospital for? Oh just You know Whatever Four or five days So you almost quit For four or five days Oh yeah almost Almost Yeah Do you never Like when you see all these guys going into AA and cleaning up, you never went, huh, maybe that's for me? No. No, never did. I mean, we stopped the blow and all that stuff. Right. But I never was much of a smoke of the grass. But the drinking, that's pretty consistent with that. You find something you like, stick with it. When did you stop the blow? Oh, a long, long time ago. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't even remember exactly when. 80s, 90s? But you don't see any people doing that. I don't even know. Is there still a scene where people do it? Not comedy, no. No, not a comedy scene with Blow. Not that I know of.

63:09You remember, like, we talked about the comedy stuff. You know, you go, no, don't sit there. You know, because somebody had lines under this thing. No, don't go over there. Wherever you went, you know. Well, they would offer to pay you in Blow. Yeah, and the giggles in Tampa, Florida. They honestly said, do you want all your money in Blow, or do you want some cash? I go, I want it all in cash. And then if I wanted to get Paul, I could do that. I mean, you can't go into a grocery store and say, you know, I got these three items. Is this line big enough? That doesn't work. Is that place still around? That Giggles? I don't know. I know Mike, that's where he got the name from. You know, Mike Louse, Giggles and Saugus. But I don't know. But that was another one of those real successful clubs. At one time, as you know, there were great clubs in a lot of places.

63:57And sadly, most of them have gone down. I mentioned the comedy works in Denver It's still one, it's still great That was such a successful And still is I always thought that was one of the best run clubs In the whole of the United States Well Wendy, the lady who owns it and runs it She's fucking awesome I go to see her every time I'm in town And sometimes I still even work that club I work that club too I'll alternate between the big theaters Then I'll go back and do her club That place was electric And she's got another one She's got a... I rebuilt another one. A second one. Yeah, she's got a second one. But yeah, there's Zanies in Nashville, still really good. There's a bunch of real good clubs still on the road. Well, maybe I'll rediscover these. I'll stop going out on the ships. Come on, Tom Gavin. I've been out floating too much. Maybe I'll come back. Yeah, you would enjoy it.

64:46Now, if you did do that, would you take someone on the road with you? How do you do it? When you do the ships, is it just you or do you bring somebody with you? Just me. How much time do you do? Varies. You know, usually you do like a headline spot, you do like a 50, 55, you know, and do two of those. But you can do the same stroke, you know, that type of thing. So you only need, you need like an hour and a half stuff total. Right. I guess is what it was. But it is kind of a lazy to man job. You can do the same sets, you know. Right. I just found an interest in talking to you about incorporating something new at the beginning. That's going to be challenging. I'm going to try that. It's not the best idea. Never tried it. The best idea, I think, is probably to sandwich it in between established jokes.

65:26Like you have a joke that you know is going to work, you get their confidence, and then you slip in a new one. But every now and then I like to open with a new one just to see what the fuck is up. I like it. Just to fucking test it. Take that little colt and see how it can run on those legs. Giddy up. No fear. No fear, Joe. I like it. I got some fear, believe me. But sometimes that fear is what makes the punchline comes out. Yeah. The punchlines that come out of nowhere, you know how it is. Sometimes you ad-lib and it'll just come out of nowhere. You're like, where is that? Where is that coming from? When you have an idea and it just pops into your head and makes its way on to – and then it gets a big laugh. And then you know it's the right thing to say right there. Right. You know it and just out of nowhere. Now, and you know what I'm saying? You travel everywhere.

66:10Is there one particular area that doesn't seem to click as much? Connecticut. Connecticut can eat plates and plates of shit. All of Connecticut can go fuck off. Really? Yeah. My friend Chappelle Lacey, I told him how bad Connecticut sucks, and he was just there this weekend, and he sent me a text message. He goes, you weren't fucking kidding. Connecticut. This place is terrible. I wasn't expecting that. One place from New England. There's something about it. Rhode Island, great. Rhode Island's fantastic. New Jersey, awesome. Love it. New York, love it. Connecticut, eat shit. Wow. Wow. When I was doing the travel, the only place I had one that they positively hated me, Memphis. Oh, Memphis they hated you? Really? I talk way too fast. and I also speak English and they hated me. Yankee Yankee. No, I said no, the Red Sox. They had their own team and they booed me

67:03again like Colin Quinn before we even got on stage and they had one of those clocks like the ones they have that was in Back to the Future, that pink clock and you could see it and you had to do 45 minutes and I'm going, shit, I gotta be close to done. I look up I had done 11 minutes. I got off stage and went table to table and heckled people. Then I went back on stage and realized I still had 15 minutes more to go. Oh, my God. They hated me. What year was this? It seemed like it was a whole year when I was there just during the one week. That was quite a while ago. I was there for the week. That's the point. It wasn't like anybody was saying, hey, you got to see this guy. People were saying, you shouldn't see this guy. It was horrible. Does it suck every night? Yeah. Yes, it did. Yes, it did. Yeah, it was so bad. And when we had a whole world, there was like a thunderstorm.

67:53And you know the ones that there's only 20 people going to be there. We said, if it's not 20 people, we don't do a show. Right. We had 16 people. And I'm going, oh, beautiful. We're going to get paid. Don't have to do a show. And two cars come up. I went out and knocked in the windows. They said, oh, we've got terrible plumbing problems. See you guys later. Come back. Come on. See you later. And I forced him to leave so I wouldn't have to do the show. Oh, my God. That's hilarious. Boston Comics, one of the things about guys that would go on the road, they had so much regional material. Boston Comics had so much Boston comedy, right? Yeah, I don't. Yeah, you don't. I was going to say that. Like, Sweeney has a lot. Yes, yes. Like, Sweeney in Boston is a goddamn murderer. Sure, sure. But some of that stuff he can't do in other places. He has to kind of rearrange his acts. Yes, yeah.

68:37Yeah, mine has always been more universal. Yeah. More observational. and I don't really have many per se Boston jokes other than something about the accent but that's about it now I asked you one end or the other where's the other end? where's like a favorite? I love Texas Texas is probably one of my favorite places to go I love Austin I love Dallas, I love Houston I love going there they're wild fucking people they're the remnants of the wild west they're the wagon trains that made it all the way to California and a bunch of people made it to Texas and they went, we're good. I'm just going to stop right here. And they're just wild. It's just a different kind of people. They're real friendly, real nice folks. It's one of my favorite places to go. Cool. I love it. Now, what about the foreign country thing? England, where you mentioned England. I love England.

69:28I've been to England a bunch of times doing stand-up. That's great. They're fun. They like to drink. Woo! Yeah, I did a tour. Yeah, they did like me, especially the drinking party. Oh, the rowdy people. I met a bar one time. We were doing the show. I said, and I wanted some ice. And the guy said, oh, and everybody's drinking just shots and beer. And I'm drinking liquor. And I said, I wanted some ice. And the guy goes, oh, the ice machine is broken. I said, well, and I was a bartender. I went back. I said, well, if you hit it, some ice will fall out of you. He goes, well, it broke over a year ago. I said, oh, okay. Never mind. Forget it. They're just not interested in ice. Yeah. If you buy a soda over there sometimes, like you get a glass of soda, it comes with no ice. Like, what is this? Where's the? and then when I did Australia Australia was that's kind of a rowdy place too

70:12oh I love it over there Australia's amazing and they get into just willing they're willing to just show stuff out to you yeah not necessarily heckling but just what do you mean by that you know I don't know explain the shit they like to drink there too yeah I did a whole set over there about Halloween and it went absolutely nowhere and I kind of rewrote the next night nowhere and I'm saying why is this thing not working And a guy says to me, what is this Halloween? They didn't in those days didn't celebrate Halloween there. He said, you send your kids to strangers houses to beg for candy? Why not for food? Why wouldn't they go get food or money? I go, it's Halloween. He didn't know what it was. Now they have Halloween. But as of like 20 years ago, they didn't have Halloween. Halloween is only 20 years old in Australia? Yes. That's hilarious.

70:59And you would think that would be a universal thing, but it was not. They have a lot of comedy over there now. Yeah. I mean, they have really funny comics now, especially in Melbourne. They have – Yeah, I love Melbourne. That was a good place. Melbourne's great. They have the Comics Lounge. I performed with Tony Hinchcliffe there when I was there back. A lot of comics from L.A. fly over there and do that place. Yeah, you mentioned Richie Jenner. I worked with him over there at the Hilton, which is right across from the tennis center where they play the big Australian – In Australia? Yeah. Richie Jenner was one of my favorites. God damn, he was good. Terrific. He was so good. He's like probably, in my opinion, one of the most underrated guys ever. Yeah. Yeah. You know, where to this day, like, people forget how goddamn good he was. And he's prolific, too. Oh, so prolific. Yeah.

71:42You know, you remember Eastside Comedy Club in Long Island? Yes, yes. He worked at Eastside Comedy Club in Long Island. I remember it was me and a couple of the other guys that were there were stunned because the host said, I go, hey, how was Jenny this weekend? He goes, not only did he murder. Was it? Not only did Jenny murder every show, but he did four different hours. Wow. He did a different hour, two shows, two different hours Friday, two different hours on Saturday. He goes, he did four different hours. He goes, he didn't repeat a joke. And he goes, and he was on top of his fucking game on fire. And we're like, that was like, I guess it was 91, 92. He was, if he wasn't the best in the world, he was right. But he was so honest about this. I said, you know, you're something about your life. He said, there's two things in my life, comedy and porn.

72:30And he spent a lot of time on both of them. That was a quote. Well, that's why he was so good. He was obsessed. Yeah. I mean, he was an interesting cat. It was a real bummer when he killed himself. He was for sure one of my favorites. I got to see him live a bunch of times. And what I loved about that guy is he would take a subject, like save the subject with cigarettes. He would beat that subject into the ground. He would find every fucking angle. He would cover every piece of every possible way you could talk about that bit. Kind of like when George Collin would take a bit that I would have, you know, an idea, a premise, we'll say. Right. I could get three and a half minutes in. He'd get 15 minutes. Yeah. Of gold. Yeah. Yeah. But Jenny would be like, punchline, punchline, punchline. God damn, he was good. Yeah. We've seen a lot of great comics in our day. Yes, we have.

73:20And hopefully a few more. Hopefully there'll be more people seeing me now than I'm back out. For sure. So you said it's available now On Pandora and on Sirius That's correct And next week it's going to be available On Spotify Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful And it's Don Gavin Comedy, Don Gavin, what is it? Don Gavin Comedy The name of the album is Don Gavin Live with the Manhattan There it is, look at you Ta-da Handsome pastor All right, listen, it's been an honor having you in here. It's been an honor being in here. I really appreciate you, and thanks for all the inspiration over the years. And from the bottom of my heart, seeing you and seeing those guys from Boston when I was starting out, it meant everything for me. Hey, your compliments mean a lot to me. Thank you, my friend. Don Gavin, everybody. Bye. Thank you, sir. That was great. Thank you very much. Thank you.