Nick Yarris

00:03three two one stir it up Nick we're live hello everyone hello everyone put the ear cups on and cheers sir oh man thank you Joe thanks for being here ma'am yeah thank you for bringing me out here man I know we meant to do this before but I hope now with all this good energy between us we can do this properly for ya yeah for sure listen man to say that you've had a crazy experience in this life is one of the most understated things a person could ever say I mean where do we begin right let's tell everybody your story so you were wrongfully committed of murder you spent 22 years on death row before you were exonerated by DNA evidence hello everyone my name is Nick Harris and I was eggs Joe said convicted and sentenced to die for a rape and murder I didn't commit at the age of 21 in 1981 a woman named mrs. Craig was murdered in Delaware I had never met the woman I was

01:15in prison on unrelated charges and I stupidly made up a story to try and get out of those charges the police soon feel realized that I was a liar and they fabricated the charges around me then so it's ironic then in a few days you're going up or Darby Pennsylvania and yeah that's where the murder happened really basically and Linda Mae Craig was leaving her job at 4:05 p.m. on December 15 1981 she's going home she gets abducted I don't know any of this but I tried in desperation to get out of a lie that this officer put on me frog I got pulled over in a stolen car the cop beats me up he puts charges on me I'm facing life imprisonment and I'm a junkie because all of my life I was destroyed by what happened to me at the age of seven I had my head beaten him by a man with a rock in his hand after he sexually assaulted me and I did all the stupid things that people can do in the

02:11aftermath I kept it a secret I let it foster all their anger and me I became very aggressive as a child and I ended up in trouble all the time and when I was in prison on these unrelated charges to the murder I stupidly fell into that mindset of desperation of trying to get out of it so the police put a prisoner in the cell next to me he said I confessed to him I was given a three-day trial I was sentenced to death and put on death row and then stupidly I escaped from prison in 1985 and end up on the FBI's most wanted list I have to get out I was being transported to court and the sheriff's were being cool with me at first they were talking about what was going on in Philly they were two nice guys like 60s 68 67 and we drove five hours from one of the hardest prisons in America called Huntington and I left there after spending two years of my first two years in silence so if you

03:13opened your mouth they would come in and beat your head in so I was so glad to get in the car cuz my mom was waiting in my lawyer's office because they were gonna give me a review of my trial because they withheld so much evidence so I was eager to go to court and it was the coldest day of 1985 February 15th we stopped at a gas station in in Exton Pennsylvania and as I got out of the car the officer driving pulled past the cubicles now we all got out of the car and ran over to the cubicle together and I went in and started peeing and officers holding the door for me and my eyeglasses start fogging up you know what I mean because you go from the freezing cold to the warm to the cold your eyeglasses so all I know is I turn around and I come out and he has the door like that and I put my head down go under his arm and I turned left and go back to the car and the dude smoke a

04:08cigarette doesn't know that his partner went a cubicle to piss and as I'm running back to the dude he pulls his pistol out and point-blank shoots at me Joe like oh and as it went past my face I was like oh I hit the ground I ran and he's found me with the gun I could feel it like I'm like I was waiting from the blast me you know cuz he thought that overpowered his partner he doesn't know his testimony at trial was I turn around Nick's running at me and my partner's down are gone I pulled my gun and he runs and I I wasn't gonna let a death-row prisoner run so I've tried to stop on my shot so I run around the corner I hit the ground I ripped all the skin off my hands I've run around the corner and I fly towards this restaurant and there's all these people innocently eating dinner and I'm running right towards the plate-glass window cuz he ain't gonna blast me you know and I ran

05:01like I knew he couldn't shoot and and I shot around the corner and I ran down to a gas station I tried to steal car that didn't work then I ran for like 400 yards 400 yards 400 yards and I hid behind the car I just escaped from and I was laying in the weeds behind the gas station about 50 yards from him whatever screaming who was the bigger idiot for letting this happen and I was thinking oh my god like what am i doing what do i do Joe what like how do I just jump up and say wait a minute it was a mistake you know they already tried to shoot me in the face so I go hide behind the police station and next four hours oh my god I'm Jane pate chased by a helicopter and he chases me and he pins me and he chases me and I was so fit that I ran for four hours through the woods would I care what the branches did to my face or nothing man I blew out both quads I did my my

05:52hamstrings I ripped my feet open I ran so hard in terror that I didn't care man and I got away and III made it all the way to Florida and I was going to lead the country in all this and I said I got to go back how did you get to Florida I stole the dude's wallet New York and I got on an airplane and I went down to Florida and I tried to rob a drug dealer and I tried to just go sitting there so angry I was gonna kill myself I was on I'll never forget this day I didn't want my folks to see me in prison handcuffs no more you know so I was gonna buy a raft and I was gonna go out the ocean and I was gonna have one last party but all the foods that I loved then I was gonna stab the raft wait for the Sharks after I cut my wrists you know and then I was going to cap myself and go then I said no I'm going back so I turned myself back in they put me on death row in Florida and I went back and

06:45I faced it you know say beat me for four minutes and they broke my face broke my back crushed me man tortured me and I thought I'm gonna get you back you know for all the days you made me go in a cage and beat some other prisoner while you stood there with a club laughing I'm gonna get you back I'm gonna make sure I start being a loving person again so I'm sitting there in 1985 1986 with a hundred and five years plus a death penalty and I decided this gonna be a nice guy so I started to learn okay I suffer from aphasia I had my head beaten in with a rock so that what is aphasia aphasia can be identified simply in people who have stuttering disorder their brain and they're for the vernacular abilities are distorted by a disruption in their brain either their brain is functioning too fast or their mouth is functioning too fast there's a combination of a misfiring and aphasia

07:51can be through trauma or through genetics an aphasia affected my life so much as a young person I never had the respect to listen to people because I couldn't function I couldn't articulate I couldn't speak when I was at trial people spoke words that I didn't understand and it frustrated me and when I tried to speak and I stutter people would be like dad come on what he got to say so after that beaten where they beat me for four minutes and he broke the face I began practicing speaking to myself every day I learned new words and I taught myself how to correctly articulate that word into a sentence beautifully for my own self in my cell every day and then I became very very good at writing I began helping other prisoners I became the most dangerous prisoner that they held because I heard about other men I wrote to their mothers I wrote letters to their lawyers

08:54I gave up opportunities for people to write books about me so I could help another innocent man I did all those things because that's how I got back at him for they did to me so in 1988 I'm sitting in my cell and I read about DNA and I knew right then I could prove my innocence so I was the first man in America in February of 1988 to ask for DNA testing to prove my innocence and they threw away all at autopsy material and when I discovered new evidence they destroyed that and this woman who came to meet me and start visiting me fell in love with me and she believed in me so she stood by me and told me that she would be with me either to the gallows walk or to the moment I proved medicines and for nine years she stood by me you know and finally we found some evidence that was testable in 1995 what is what was the evidence it was sperm from the rape and it was being

09:53sent out here to California to dr. Deborah Blake and it broke open and transport and spilled so Jackie left me had nothing left and then they put me in a special unit and he started torturing me I keep this part quiet I never told the story it would ruin what happened in fear of 13 it's now out on Netflix but they finally closed down the old prison I was in for 12 years where the average rate of survival is only 5 and I was one hard as Jews there and I made it they closed the prison down and open up Green County Supermax and the courts ordered that every prisoner in Pennsylvania be allowed out of their cell for 8 hours the administration looked at each other's had that not too crazy cannibals and not the serial killers not the dudes that have been assault and raping each other so they picked 48 F of us out and they put us in Pittsburgh and a special penitentiary setting in which

10:53we were in a sealed unit and they put all these guards in there they weren't allowed to touch other prisoners because they were so violent and told him there were giving you the craziest of the crazy you know buff low Bill from Silence of the lamb was a real man right his name was Gary Hyde Nick he abducted black women in Philadelphia and put him in a pit under his house and fed one of them to the other survivors because he was building a master race he was my neighbor man like so they started torturing us and doing all this psychological crazy should do is where they were feeding us to each other like wolves so I kept it all quiet until this year when once again misfortune fell in my life and I released monsters am Edmund a new book that I was going to give you today and I thought you know I gotta tell that story you know but it's been so hard to come

11:41back from these moments Joe it's just like I look at what they did to me and how I went to that moment where the DNA is gone Jackie leaves me and so I find out I'm dying from hepatitis C that they did when they infected me of it when they broke my teeth when they beat me so I asked to be executed I said I studied all the world's religions I read over 9000 books I did everything in piety my mother asked me to do us in prison died like Dale Carter did with the cards coming to his cell and taunting them you know teasing him and listen to a man screaming agony cuz the bio and his belly's killing him so I wrote to the courts and I asked to be executed I say it man I want to die as a man I love who can respect himself the court intervened and ordered the DNA testing that was going to be done on evidence is spelled in July of 2003 the DNA CH has come back and he proved me innocent

12:55how did so the the the evidence spilled and they just captured it once it spilled it was in a box with all this evidence and dr. Edward Blake who did Oh Jay Simpson trial DNA said that there would be challenges to it if he did the DNA in 1999 1998 in 2003 they had advanced mitochondrial DNA separation so well that he felt confident and his results so the federal court got involved and said look I don't want to have this man executed I want the DNA done so they did that and it was amazing that on the day that I called her lawyers they revealed a truth to me I called his lawyer and I'm like what's go he goes Nick we got DNA from three separate sources that prove you innocent I said that's amazing Mike I I'm really grateful because you know we used to tell people you're crazy that we never believed in you I'm really sorry for that man really you want to take my joy

13:59now man so I was really down cast at the day I called my mother my brother Mike he was having a seizure at her feet because he was an alcoholic at the default roof and he died shortly after so it just went crazy from there they take me off death row and they put me in a psychological cell and they tell me they can't trust me that no human being who has had done to them what we've done to you cannot be angry if we opened this door up and we let you out you're gonna get us so we're gonna leave you until the day they let you out we're gonna leave you in this cell because we don't trust you miss not to kill us for what we did to you what did they do to you the heesu have a thing called gladiator day said the lieutenant will be off on a Sunday and the guards who started to come from the Philadelphia area were black and they didn't like the guards up in the

14:59hillbillies beaten on black prisoners so a weird thing happened where this lieutenant came up with a idea we'll look let's let the prisoners get this frustration out of you guys by you pick out the biggest guy and you pick out this guy so one day I'm sitting there minding my own business and they open up my cell and there's four of them with clubs you're up so I got to go in the cage and I got to go and hurt somebody why do you stand outside and if you don't fight they're gonna come in and they're gonna beat you worst and you can beat a man or get beaten by one man so they did that all this for their entertainment were they ever punished for this not until after the riot when one of them testified against the others for the murder and stuff I watched the 11 people commit suicide I've been stabbed strangled beaten senseless the cards used to talk because I was a

15:56accused of a psychological murder of going out the stalking this poor woman because she looked like my girlfriend they said so I was never treated like a prisoner I was treated with deference the worst word I know in the English dictionary the way I was treated was so harsh that it was cruel beyond cruel and yet all I wanted to do was have enough within me to learn that beautifully speaks at it on a date it they executed me I could tell them how much I cared about myself I was more important to me than living because somehow when you suffer like I have suffered your head cracks open and you have a typers sensitivity to life so that when you touch the human beings you never forget the 14 years no one was allowed to touch you you know what this I ain't crying about it I know what job I I do because I feel bad for this you shouldn't know because I look in

17:03your arms and in your eyes and I see the hurt that I'm causing you no no no don't worry about that man all right was this is what I'm doing is trying to imagine what your life has been like don't you worry about me at all I'm harder than life and I'm kinder than love secretly I'm a saint I never hurt no one I tried my best to be played every day and I've had misfortune and I returned and I'm very sorry that I sit in this chair today after it came about you see I believe in good I believe good is gonna win Joe and uh I believe that I had good again almost three years again one few years ago when I met my wife current wife Laura see I had a woman in my life before that who used me and left me here in Los Angeles I ended up homeless on streets here I was actually living up in this area on the streets because my good friend Noah lives around here him and Jason took good care of me and my bad

18:12times I call it so I go back to England I meet this woman fall in love we have a baby and she's born on your birthday and I start to believe in hope again I go do a podcast in England with my good friend Brian from true Geordie and I start to spread my message again and I want to get all these young kids to believe in themselves then one day I put the baby down for a nap and I get Laura to lay in my arms cuz she's sick and we get up 20 minutes later and the baby's dead and I'm coming down the steps with the bed baby and I'm getting you know all up again and then people are so cruel dat in the village they started me you know maybe the baby was killed by the guy on death row in all this and I have a stalker ex-wife Karen who just won't leave me alone contacts the police and tells him that I put out a tweet that night and it only happened because my good friend Anthony

19:10Sam and Don he was in the green room told me today before my daughter died about a close friend of his they lost a baby that day and so when our baby died I put out a tweet just saying you know I appreciate the people in your life because they're so precious and the police came to our house and humiliated me and wanted to know how I could tweet about something because my clock was 9 hours off because I was living on the streets of Los Angeles and my time was still on la time because Anthony and I are developing a major motion picture about my life and I told the police are you crazy like why would I so I can't even get a break on the death of my daughter like the that was the moment that the director of the film fear of 13 decided to rip me off my rights to the film he decided to rip you off how he owed me 50,000 pounds from doing the film fear after he decided to rip you off because he

20:07thought you killed your baby you know he decided to rip me off then not pay me my money when I asked him I needed money to bury my daughter so I end up in a shouting match with author demoulas the billionaire from Boston I promise to get on his plane and come kick his ass over the money Roark and over cuz I begged I it was crazy I ended up I'm still confused what so your child dies is it my child dies and everything goes badly on syndrome yes and everybody that I counted on to have my back including director David sinked and who promised to pay me for my participation in the film all then tell me oh no I'm not paying you I'm like how can you do this when I need this money to bury my baby why do you say wasn't paying because he said he didn't owe it to me and all this I said why are you crazy you you have a written contract so it's the same thing you know how that entertainment business

21:01is once they get what they get out of you that's it so he just said he wasn't gonna pay yes what the contract side right so author demoulas invested in the film and he owns most of it so I write to author I call my said Arthur David's not paying me my money can you help me because he owned most of the film by that point so author gets all annoyed at me I said look man my daughter just died I blew up at him I told him send me your private jet I'll come to Boston we can have a fist fight you love the fight you know all that I lose control and then author out of his gray sends me some money so we could bury the baby but it went through all this terrible so I started I said now I'm going back to America so I leave England I come over here I got two daughters with Laura we're over here now and the Oregon and Anthony my god I meet this amazing man only because

21:56of Muhammad Ali dying and now he's going to help me make a major motion picture about my life so I get away from all that drama of losing the baby and being humiliated by people thinking I would do some to a little girl and I go back and I rebuild everything and then I try to go to can and he won't let me in that's crazy so I can't go do my job there I lose all don't let you in because you were on death row for 22 years yeah I know you're innocent not only that I just came from speaking before the United Nations sitting next to the president and current former presidents of Switzerland and I have a security clearance from that I worked in a high-profile job in England going around speaking all over to governments but Canada holds it against me because I escaped from death row so I can't enter the campus the country of Canada Robin Sharma tried to have me come up there

22:46and speak for him with his conference and I had to humiliatingly do it from my home via Skype it's like I'll never stop being punished for what happened do you know what I mean but I don't care about that what really bothered me it was that all those things started to fall me and I started losing hope again so I go and I even tried recently just to have a normal job and give up everything I'm a beautiful speaker in schools and I go around and try and help people with the education right so I was trying to do that the last year with a friend of mine named Wayne Sharpe from New Zealand he has a company called my verse and he wants to help children find the correct path education so important we can't get that going I can't I decide I'm gonna give up everything and just go get a normal job but that doesn't work so I'm sitting there and it's Jamie's birthday

23:37I'm angry like what the how could I fall apart again so didn't you contact me after I tweeted and it all starts again and I'm back to believe in debt it doesn't matter how I got in his chair or it doesn't matter that the man preceding me has everything and I had nothing I still believe in good it's called yudice time and I told you that mess I sent you yes it l.joe you're gonna change my life doing this man you didn't have to do this you're gonna have to be nice to me you are and for that man I'm willing to keep going I can't I mean I don't think anybody can imagine what it's like to spend 22 years on death row for something you didn't do I want you to go back to the night that you got arrested and tell us cuz youyou kind of there's some tissue right beside you if you wanted yeah I'm good I'm daughter crying go ahead brother it's just the the night you were how old are

24:48you were 20 21 21 21 21 before he sentenced me to death I'm 20 years old I'm a Philly kid and I'm high on meth and the music's blast and driving through Chester Pennsylvania in a stolen car yeah everything in my life is just chaos I'm fighting with my two brothers all the time and no one has respect for me I was ugly and it's 2 o'clock in the morning I just came from a bar I go through a stop sign and the next thing I know I saw the lights I pull over and the beating of my head's out of control and I'm sitting there gripped with fear I took a beat in Philly and December 4th of that same year in which they ripped all my teeth up with a blackjack so I was really scared you know as I don't move don't run don't do nothing stupid you took a beating from cops earlier yeah you know Philly cops put me in my place because I ran my mouth so there I am sitting there and the next thing I

25:59know BAM on the window baman he rips open the door and a track from Bad Company was playing really loud and like I can't hear and or make focus of what he's saying you know and then next thing I know boom right up out of the car and he's got me on the Carn and his name's Benny right and he's six foot four and he's got me pressed against the top of the car and he's holding me down and I can't breathe so I start resisting I popped his arm off and the adrenaline goes boom here comes the beast out of me because it's six two and that age I was crazy tough man I was like off-the-charts and so I pushed him back I remember that and he couldn't believe it he pulled out his stick and raised it up and I just snatched it out of his hand and chucked it away I was looking I'm like I was like that zombie guy and he went furious man he pulled out the pistol and I seen it coming I grabbed his hand and I

26:51pushed down and I had my arms outstretched in the Gunma boom down into the ground like that I looked at him and he put the gun up there and he said ma you must ain't puts me in the car I'm sitting in the backseat I'm freaking out you know he gets in the car and he's like jumping back and forth from the front seat then he waits and he looks at me in the mirror and he grabs the mic and he's going like shots fired officer says shots fired he looks at me one last time he goes help help help like it's still going on and like I'm I'm like what what what's going on dude tells him when they get there the backup officers get there he's like he tried to kill me he's got my gun and I got it back from him I'm like no this is going south they jacked me up take me out of the car beat me down take me to jail now I'm charged with attempted murder and kidnapping of a police officer I'm 20

27:45years old and I meet skip DiMaggio the public defender who didn't tells me I'm facing life imprisonment and that's it and they're gonna put me in the security wing because my bail is gonna be so high I looked at him I said what do you mean man I was just driving home I'm in a stolen car like he said no man you ain't never going home so I broke down and I went through detox with no no help you know so three days I'm in a cell with nothing but this news paper and it's the headline on the newspaper mrs. Craig's murder and it starts taunting me men taunting me it's hot somehow in my head I came up with this crazy mantra if I knew something about something that big update let me go about this lie I didn't try to kill nobody I was sitting on my bed and the guard was walking by and he goes what's wrong with you and I started telling him what was going through my head the whole story

28:47and that was hecho oh my god he ran down the block he went to the sergeant's office they got me to the warden the wardens now been told you say you're telling them what's going on your head so hey you had you had a plan to tell him a story to tell him a lie and when that officer responded because he heard the story I didn't have any idea with the impact that my words were oh so stupid well you're also going through detox yeah and so they take me to the warden's office and he starts praising me they take me out of solitary to freezing you how tell me I'm doing a great job what did you tell him I told him that a man that I knew in the area had told me he had done the crime and that if they let me out I would tell them all about it and he told me I was helping the community they were taking me out of solitary confinement all that they've told me that they spoke to

29:42officer right and he was going to retract his charges and only charged me resisting arrest and they were going to drop the rest of the charges and everything was going to be good and then three days later they came back and said dude you lied and the only reason you lied is because you want to tell us that you did this they put me in a room and start doing all this how'd they find out that you lied to dude that I made the story up was no longer a drug addict and he had an alibi so you just tried to pin the story on some other drug addict they do derive me a rolled me up in a rug and tried to kill me with a 357 Magnum so I figured I heard the story that he was dead and figure they won't even find him anyway you know but a 20 year old doesn't have any concept of you know complex stuff like this especially in the eighties right dude they came right back to me and they had me in a delaware

30:34county district attorney's office and this detective Martin told me no certain terms I was gonna tell him why I killed that woman I wasn't leaving that room so for 13 hours they tortured me Matt started bringing up my childhood and all that I told him man I just wanted to blow up my whole world like an ASA oh that's good so this is my confession consists of I not kill anyone I never meant to kill anyone that's good that's good you never meant to kill her what are you talking about so I went to trial and I was given a three-day trial for the murder of mrs. Craig after the jury found me not guilty of all my original charges so I was really frustrated that a jury heard the testimony of officer Wright he would later be fired from the force being caught up in a drug gang in Chester he was dirty but they didn't know it at the time but a jury found me not guilty that

31:35prosecutor went mental when that happened and he decided to seek the death penalty so a month after I was found guilty not guilty of all my original charges that I made the stupid story up I they gave me a three-day murder trial that in essence was a joke and what they did was they preyed upon the poor jury and showed them pictures of the victim and stuff like that man and he had an inmate who burglarized the prosecutors home and was facing 20 years come into court and say I confessed them that was it so the inmate said that you confessed to him Charles II had Alena they got a got to do that you know so I'm sitting there and they dropped the bomb on me I know it's coming the jury was so crass that they went out to the wagon wheel restaurant and put their dessert order on hold while they found me guilty and then doing the sentencing phase they had their dessert

32:31I was 20 years old man I'm like this isn't real man like I never killed a rape this woman how can this happen you know and then the only mistake I truly think I made was that I told the judges go to hell when he sentence me to death because he couldn't look me in the face why do you think that's a mistake because he decided to send me to Huntington prison the hardest prison in America what was he gonna do before that I don't know but he made sure I went to the place that they broke you see Huntington was designed as the prison if he raped another inmate they sent you there it was the first shoe program in America it was the first really what a shoe program a special housing unit or security housing unit word level five Supermax you know like Pelican Bay and uh your punishment was that you weren't allowed to speak in yourself and if you got caught speaking in yourself they

33:25came in with a nurse and they after they beat you down she jabbed you asked with Thorazine and they knocked you out for a week and you lost your mind so it was horrible like I told you the first two years of my sentence every day I kept my mouth shut I didn't care what was done around me you know you weren't allowed to say a goddamn word and a meant it and you know allowed to talk to other inmates nothing I dare you to sing happy birthday to yourself like I did I paid for that one they me up Joe but I don't care about that look I realized I was in a race I had to kill off the person that I was the person that I initially was upon entering prison was a deceitful lying coward but no fortitude because no self-respect resided within me and in utter humbleness I took everything that they did to me and I paid for every window I broke everything I stole reliable and

34:34then I started to love myself I figured ain't get nothing out of this but misery so I'm going out like the dude I must stand up and I must speak beautifully on the day they execute me i'ma walk to that walk man i'ma do dis I didn't kill that woman but I damn sure ain't no coward I'm gonna find out everything I can about life and then I'm gonna face my death i'ma do it was shot a V man like I had this beautiful beautiful speech ready for him to I was gonna lay it out and just be at peace because I realized there was nothing else to do I couldn't fight I couldn't argue it didn't matter because gods in control my life and I really believed that I had choice either be a bitter pill and gets sucked dry by all the misery around me or get my right and start loving myself so I taught myself how to speak and overcome this aphasia that affected me my whole life and I found out that I

35:44was giving myself neuroplasticity healing and I became very graceful and calm in prison I was so serene and so powerful how'd you find out you were giving yourself neuroplasticity healing I found that out from Robin Sharma Robin Sharma is the foremost authority on speaking about neuroplasticity healing and when he found about what I speak about he said I am the living embodiment of his teachings that through grace and dignity and kindness I developed my own charisma that carries me with confidence and that is the description of what he teaches professionals beginners everyone to explain neuroplasticity for people the neuroplasticity is a reward system within your brain where in your interactions especially with other human beings heals you so people who suffer from PTSD people who have had trauma in their lives can actually heal themselves by being meticulously polite and I began

36:45all of this when I was released my mother sat me down and she said Nikki listen to me for you to get out of prison and not be a nice man is a waste of everyone's time every prayer every time someone called me the mother of a monster every time a woman spit in my face every thing that I went through is a waste of time for you not to be a nice man so I want you to promise me one thing every day I want you to go out say yes ma'am yes sir and thank you because I want you to show respect for who you are in that way they hurt this family badly so anything I ask I didn't notice she handed me the tool to healing because neuroplasticity is the self contrived act of rewarding yourself for being a nice person and my gift over the last 14 years is that I made myself so amazingly pliable and gifted at helping others find the good within them that's the reason I'm truly here today the

37:55thing that I've been able to accomplish through my writing and through my efforts is to show people that you take things personally in life you'd be then a fool because what you've done is you've taken all the hurts and you've made them to justify reason why you have to be an to somebody whereas you keep forgetting that you've been given a break over and over just to be here man dude I've been shot stabbed strangled run over by a car hung myself in prison to drug overdoses and I had accountable trying to murder me for two solid years I know that I could fall at any moment from my own hand but God blessed me I believe so much in my purpose in life that I won't kill myself I won't give up and it's only because I've been tested that I know that it has to be for a reason I had dreams about all this while I was in death row I had the most amazing intense dreams because

38:56of my suffering and they play out now so what happened did I manage to touch something we're all chasing or am I in a delusional world because I what do you mean I told people last last year I told everybody on Facebook something was going bad was gonna happen and it did when my daughter broke her elbow so I told everybody before it happened two years ago I told my wife Laura I was coming back here to meet Anthony Sam and Danny and go on the good news network and do a thing with Mamie Ali who's a good friend of mine and I told him how the things would happen and sure enough every time it's played out why did you think something was gonna bad was gonna happen well you said something bad was gonna happen your daughter broke her arm dude I'm in a meeting with a guy named Kevin and John I look at them and I say I have to go and I'm on Melrose Boulevard

39:55my daughter is playing in the playground a few blocks away and I'm in this meeting with these men about my film I stand up at the table and I say to him I have to go right now I run outside and I asked my wife Laura is she okay my daughter fell and broke her elbow and had to have six pins put into it in cedars-sinai we have a sixty three thousand dollar bill that it is stuck us with but I knew was gonna happen before it did and I even told people it was gonna happen how can I have that touch did you knew that was gonna happen specifically I saw the event but not in real time so I could make sense of it but I saw the greenery at the park when we pulled up it was the same and I had the flash last night when I met Stedman Graham I had all these moments that woman last night pinned a thing on my collar and she looked just like my mother and I had this dream because my

40:52mom died on September 9th and ten years ago I was actually on a flight September 11 for her funeral and it's all crazy how I saw all these things in my dreams on death row and they play out and it keeps happening with witnesses to my life that are recognizing it with me so I can't make it up do you don't I mean I wish my friend Jason was here he's he's been able to help me just put this in context and I'm doing this badly but I just think there's some how I went through an experience so intense that it is truly cracked open something that has given me a hypersensitivity to things I think that it has allowed me truly to be humble enough to really give my life for a purpose and not be ego driven like I have nothing at this moment where we sit here but I am so proud of the fact that that doesn't never stop me from believing and good and you could beat me all day you could put in a cage you

41:53could do whatever you want to me but it's up to me didn't make it misery I'm choosing not to men I don't care how much I got a struggle from this point on or what grace is on Grand I just want one thing to stay true in my life that I don't lose Who I am I fought so hard to be this man through a childhood of a feeling so inadequate because another man raped me to the feelings that I was so low of being cast aside as a condemned human being that then rise up and go and speak before governments to the point that Kofi Annan told me that I was one of the finest speakers in the world to then go and follow that and stand at the base of the Coliseum where human beings were put to death for entertainment and blow twenty thousand people away and have it flawlessly done and to recognize that I had it all within me to do because of one thing that neuroplasticity came a

42:51charisma the kind of charisma you exude so I don't know where it is that you hit that point where you decided to really believe in yourself but like you said you didn't listen to that that people were telling you and once you did that you started to contrive all this beautiful charisma because I didn't even watch the fight Saturday when you were talking I listened to you and I thought he's so flawless it's not even thought of but people would never grant you that you dad to do something in your heart something within you made you believe in this guy man listen I have not had much resistance at all I'm gonna be honest with you like what you're saying about me is very kind I really appreciate it but really haven't had much resistance yeah but what it is about you it makes you believe in yourself bo what happened where'd you hit that point well I'm pretty sure it came from martial arts

43:46from martial arts competition when I was very young pretty sure from the first beat another first win neither neither just just how difficult it was just doing it from 15 to before I was 22 I stopped somewhere around 22 but there's just the fact that it was so difficult that it it taught me hard work taught me focus and and I didn't have anything for that before that I thought it was a loser like a really thought it was a loser I don't know my father my stepdads a very nice guy but there's something about growing up without a father that is still alive that doesn't talk to you and you know my mom worked all day my stepdad worked all day there was no one around you know I just and we moved a lot and how many friends so I just I just I never felt like I was worthwhile that's what I wasn't anything like what you experienced no nothing but it was enough

44:52within you that it was the point where I needed to prove myself that's what I need I wanted to show I there was something inside me that I needed to show that I wasn't useless and the only way I could show that it wasn't useless was by being good at things and initially it was art and then after our it became martial arts and the martial arts thing was more important than art because the martial arts tested me like art was beautiful because I could draw things and people would love them and then it made me feel good that people liked my work but it was there's a big difference between that and the martial arts the martial arts was so difficult to do and to compete at a you know a national level it was every time I did it I was terrified but after it was over I felt better about myself and I understood that I could actually be good at things so was the first thing that I ever did

45:42that gave me a feeling of value so it went from being a loser to being an extreme winner that's brilliant but it was just it is but your point though but you're saying that people like held me back and that's not really the case it wasn't you know I mean I'm sure people judged me one way or another because a fear factor or some of the other things but the thing about going through the martial arts competition and everything when I was young I don't I don't give a how other people view me I don't I just do what I like I do what I like and I try to be nice but that's where your charisma comes from and where you got that from it's still yours man I admired it a lot of people don't have the confidence to do that to shut it off that noise that thing that makes us react to everyone else's opinion well I react to it I mean I most certainly feel it but I just don't don't I don't let it

46:36change the way I I go through life and I I think because of the lessons that I've learned I try to express that as much as possible for people that haven't gone through those same lessons so I can I can I can express that information and maybe people can absorb some of it without having to go through what I went through I think what you went through is infinitely more difficult more trying and I think that your message and your story can show people that in the worst possible scenario the beginning of your life as a man you're wrongfully committed to life in prison you are gonna spend the rest of your life until they execute you on death row and all the horrors that you've gone through to come out of that and to come out of that with a purpose of being a nice person and learning how to speak and learning how to speak clearly and confidently like there's a lesson in

47:42that that said it I mean I mean this is almost like at a out of religious level I mean you talk about someone who's created a diamond from pressure and that's what you've done well you've done is you've you've figured out a way to despite all this raging hurricane of emotion that goes through your mind that's causes you to cry when you think about these things you can express yourself in a very clear way that lets people it just at least peer through the window into what you've experienced in your life and it can give people a perspective that they're just is very very rare that someone gets over in life as bad as you did very very rare and it's even more rare to come through at the end with a sense of purpose every day of my life someone writes me and tells me they didn't kill themselves today every day man did his stop drugs there's a young man living in my house named

48:48Zack hers is really good friend of mine he really changed his whole life since meeting me even my close friends have told me that I've changed their life and I appreciate it because I recognize a lot of times it's the good within then that's resonating and I'm proud of the fact that I have sat and listened to the words I kind of deserve for what I've tried now I'm gonna learn in the future to accept the graces that you just did for me because in the past I always tried to as you see diminish it I have worked very hard I have worked very hard to craft my work into writing and like your drawings I was so proud of having a number one best seller in my first book and I was so proud of using my talent as a writer to then articulate what it's like to lose a baby and my journey through her eyes or to use this last effort in monsters a madman to to tell people it's okay to have a bigger secret

49:56than the one that people know you by and still live with it and then when it's right you can share it where I've made a point that I'm done writing because I've accomplished all my work as a writer and now I want to do one thing well I want to help young students around the world take themselves seriously with their education I did over 500 of them in schools over England and Europe and stuff I loved it man I got all these young lads and lasses to come back to me and show me degrees that they got when I showed him how important her education was and I I'm I really thrive in that environment because I think that's where everything still is for me somehow like I'm that kid you know who won't let go of needing to still chase the good in my life and I know there's bad things in the woods and I know there's brilliant things in the woods I'm still willing to walk that

50:55and find something meaningful and that's what I came here to really say is that I want to make an impact with my words but not overdo it so I don't want to do any other podcast after this one except for my friend Brian's but I want to do the meaningful thing without it having to be attached to the social media draw that has hurt my life so much social media draw that has hurt your life how does it hurt your life well when my daughter broke her arm and we put up a GoFundMe page I was viciously attacked because people expect me to have funds but they don't know you know things effectively have funds because the movie in the book yeah and I'm not I have nothing I borrowed money to get here like people don't know that I'm wearing a shirt my friend because he funded me to be here you know so I'd have food was here it's like that real no so people don't want me to not succeed like I hurt their

51:57image of me if I don't have wealth in addition to being this person before then I just think people just they don't understand you know the people see someone else's life and they like to assume the worst and they like to criticize you whenever they have an opportunity so if they see any vulnerability they pounce and you know what you've gone through is the opposite of what most people go through people have difficult times in their life but more than difficult times you know what they have they have long periods where they don't have anything happen where life is boring and life is just a dull gray and life is just work and coming home from work and the trials and tribulations of that and traffic and the kind of insane experiences that you have being wrongly convicted and spending twenty two years confined in a cage forced to fight because of vicious psychopath guards that those kind of

53:02experiences are the experiences that allowed you to come out of it this very kind very open-minded person who's trying to better yourself and wants to see the best in other people the people that go through their life in this dull state of jealousy and bitterness and resentment and just constantly focused on themselves a self obsessive culture that we have and one of the things about social media that's most up is you're looking at all these other people's lives and on them and comparing yourself to them and finding faults and them and attacking them in the comment section and attacking what and the people that are doing that they're all doing that because they're in there in agony they're in a different kind of agony than you but it's an agony of nothing I know and I looked at it and I thought I try to craft a beautiful message on the social medias so that I

54:03don't get caught up into arguments and I always try to show the good in the world and that's why I love like the good news network I'll trying to liberally stay away from things that poison my mind because I don't want to contribute I don't want to get caught up in the Trump error argument or the previous argument or the new argument I want to post meaningful messages of good because that's my overall message so I thought recently maybe I can contrive three beautiful messages for Twitter Facebook and Instagram and I could leave out this wonderful message and then I can go about my business of going back into schools and talking to students because it gets too chaotic in addition to all the lovely messages of the wonderful human beings that listen to me speak or they saw the film fear of 13 read one of my books there's also a lot of women out there men and they've been harassing me

54:55and bothering me and it's put a lot of conflict in my life and I don't want that harassing you in bothering you how a lot of women fall in love because of the film the film made me look very attractive yeah what is it about women and men that are on death row - the sad one - yeah I know said yeah they'll contact me and tell me about their inmate I'm not a name I'm not a death-row prisoner I was on death row that is a strange obsession because women have yeah and it goes to a psychological feature of women who can fix things with their lung so they want me to deceive my wife to be with them but not be deceitful they want me to ignore all the social chaos I could cause to go and leave a family to be with them but they still want to harass me and it was so bad recently even on my anniversary I had to cut off people who were bothering me I have a an active stalker in my life

55:48it's all kind of crazy I've gone through a lot of experiences where the social media has really tested me so I thought I'm gonna try and be like the dude all right so they're gonna execute me said that twice yeah the dude is the guide it knows all right so this is my last scene you don't mean like from The Big Lebowski kind of like the dude man like the dude so seriously Jeff Bridges one of my heroes what a moment you know Chris Pine Jeff Bridges Ben Foster being interviewed about Hell in high water and they asked Chris Pine what are you watching he goes oh my god I got to tell you about fear of 13 I got to tell you about Nicki iris madness dude is the you don't I mean and my phone goes yeah I had dinner with him he's a really really cool dude man Wow you need to have Chris on he's a very cool dude he's really introspective and he's deep like he's a real good conversationalist

56:39all right so time what else has he been in he's immature oh dude he just he just did the one with Oprah too and he did the one before that with the Star Trek oh that guy yeah Chris Wonder Woman yeah sounds great I'm telling you man what have any a to invite me to dinner and hang out one and even Harvey Weinstein pops in for a minute holla I'm like no and he's like Harvey you just produced that documentary about the dude that was in jail or everything hit the fan yeah this is four things went tits up I know yeah no I had this real great blessing so alejandro Monteverde who did the little boy with Kevin James he has an amazing life story himself I mean as his family was abducted kidnappers and executed this is real drama the day I meet this man I'm at a red-carpet event in LA and he goes home and watches fear of thirteen and he comes back and he tells me I'm gonna

57:43make your movie I'm gonna help you I don't know how but God told me there's certain movies I have to make and he's making one right now with Tim Ballard from the CIA about rescuing children from the sex trades and stuff so he's doing really serious work he said he wants to make a feature films that are gonna make a feature film about me called conviction right now it might be changed but I got the script and it's hard man to read but we have all these a-list actors and my dream of course is Chris Pine because I think he's one of the best right but I have no say but I get this amazing chance to come out here and meet all these people for the film being made and I realized it's all meant to be man like all this crazy stuff so maybe if I craft my message right I can step back and let people appreciate the message I had without distorting it because I don't

58:32want to ruin it I don't want to go too far and end up making a fool of myself when I thought the right thing to do was teach people about neuroplasticity and how to make yourself a really badass outside the ring by being a kind man and how to rarely make yourself a really nice person to the family and loved ones by having the self respect about yourself to be patient in life and things like that you know and don't ruin it so that's what I keep saying don't ruin it you know when you're talking about social media I think one thing to take into consideration is when you do something like a GoFundMe or any anytime there's anything controversial those are magnets for hate and you might think that everyone hates you but what you're dealing with is a very small amount of people from a very large amount of people I know that's a if you're thinking about the whole planet right

59:22all the english-speaking people you're dealing with hundreds and hundreds of millions of people that believe so much in what you said that's why I'm here now because on my website Nikki RS org we organized so today's listeners can go there and download copies of my book I can get out of destitute times I can get my life together we did everything we could knowing that this podcast has reached a million people so you're right I do I mean even you like your social media what I mean is just that the thing is to not get caught up in the numbers that come out you that are negative because it's just a sheer matter of volume all right if you're reaching people through the internet you're reaching who knows how many human beings I think one out of a hundred is gonna be the type of person that wants to send a hateful message because it's easy because they don't

60:10have to look you in the eyes when they do it they don't have to feel any social consequences they don't have to feel your pain when they insult you or or you know say awful things about you or your family they're doing it because they want to affect you because they're hurting and they're hurting for a very different reason than the way you're hurting but this is what's wrong with social media is because human beings are not meant to communicate that way we lose our humanity in this very shallow form of interaction because all those parts what's what's important about people's looking them in the eyes talking to them hugging them shaking their hand communicating honestly and anytime you you're missing any of those pieces when you communicate dishonestly when you don't want to shake someone's hand when you don't want to look them in the eye when you don't want to enter in

61:00your interact with them when you don't care about them as a person all those things leave you feeling like and all those that's true you're right the the social media is the worst form of it because it's just text you have to interpret it yourself you don't know what the is going on there life you don't know who they are but you read that text and you absorb it personally you absorb it personally you take it in the worst possible form and you you feel that critique in your chest you feel it you feel it in your head I know I guess I got caught up in this notion that I could just go be a normal guy and I have a normal job and people would leave me alone well they would if you weren't on social media and then I've already entered that form so well you don't have to stay in that form but that's true but here's the thing even if you do use that form you know what you can do you just don't

61:52interact you know that's the thing that's what I said I was going to it's it's hard for people to understand that are on the outside like will you I love you I want you to interact with me because I love you you know and I want you to recognize that I'm recognizing you and I appreciate that for people but they have to understand the volume of people that someone like you is dealing with that's what I tried to convey and I try it very sincerely never to be ignorant to people and you know it's it's mind-blowing joke because I had my mind made up and now I've realized that I do and it all goes back to a conversation what little boy Jason daily me and him we're driving along the 405 one day and film4 at fear of 13s about to come out and I told him I didn't wanted to come out and he said you don't own that film every kid that's ever had a shitty childhood owns that film everybody who's

62:44got a broken marriage or a shitty life or his really struggling owns that film if you this up I'll never be your friend again man and he was right I don't own the fear of 13 and I don't own really anything of it but it's message is so beautiful I did what I could to tell my story because we're all living our life as an experience but we can only convey it as a memory and I did beautifully for myself I'm so proud of the effort I made I don't care that the director Rob me I'll make my way I don't care what I went through to this moment because I truly appreciate the person who wrote me last night and said two weeks ago I was released from a mental hospital after trying to kill myself and my mom sat me down and made me watch film mmm now in the last two weeks I've been going to therapy and I'm getting my together I don't film Jo and I don't own my message I guess my message is taken one

63:39by the people who love me or not you're right I'm not going to be bothered by the negatives I had a terrible experience with a stalker for 12 years who won't leave me alone and it cost me my daughter and a divorce is all kind of crazy stuff so it was really affecting me and my current wife and I didn't like it but I think I'm gonna actually beat a dude and just hang around for a little bit longer and make you proud of me for what I do from here on well don't worry about me man now everyone that I love though to always be on that list I really that's what you use for motivation yeah that's that's great and there's nothing wrong with that but I think that what you can do and what you are doing is show that you can you can overcome things you can overcome horrible things some of the most horrible experiences a person could ever face you can overcome them and you have

64:30and those messages they give people inspiration and inspiration is one of the greatest things you can give a person and you're inspiring me today I told you since this man ever since we started communicating I told you I mean this I even went out of my way today to Matt Matt rang me your producer and I wanted to make a point right away I said dude I know a lot of people climb right past you to go to Joe but I wanted to tell you thank you for helping me and my family thing thank you for helping organize I made sure that Jamie got my love when I came in the room because he organized my trip it was so cool while he got me into the writer airport and everything right because I know that is so important to that man because a lot of people won't make that effort Joe and I don't want to be a guy to misses my chance so I must say thank you and yes ma'am and yes sir to everyone like my

65:20mom asked me and make sure never to overlook people because that's truly my message my kindness makes me able to come back my good heart is made better by the fact that I've won a believe in good and it's crazy how it's come back to reward me in so many ways like do you remember when Muhammad Ali died you know yeah well I didn't know Anthony Salman Donnie I didn't know his story but one day I get contacted by a man who's seen the fair of 13 and I learned that he went to university out here and he became a lawyer cause a little promise to his mother to be a good person he goes to the mosque every Friday and becomes close friends with Muhammad and they go to dinner every night with maymay on Fridays you know and he become real close and he tells me the story how at a young age Muhammad looks him in the face and says you're going to be one of the men who carries my message in life

66:11and he's like I'm 22 what could I possibly have to offer anyone so he goes to this experience and on the day that Muhammad Ali had approval from the government Patent Office for this bracelet that says within good there is God he called me in England where I was at the time and he says I have a question for you I saw your film learned a lot about you since then why aren't you bitter ma'am why are you still willing to believe and I said my mother never prayed for anything but good she always told me the only good there was was in bliss within God he said are you kidding me hold on and he starts sending me to stuff I didn't know that earlier that day Muhammad Ali's bracelet would be you know approved by the patent I didn't know any of that but it was those words you see what I mean about the synchronicity of all this craziness in my life the next thing you know I'm and in Los Angeles

67:10I'm meeting alejandro he wants to help me make the movie I meet all these wonderful people like Adam Kalinin from bottle keeper he's such a sweet guide they came up with this company on the beach couple years ago and now it's doing very well for keeping drinks cold and he stood wonders for me and my wife this man is such a lovely guy that I wouldn't be in this chair without him or Anthony or any of these people right and then Anthony sets up mamie Ali and he brings me out and we have a podcast and he doesn't tell her a word about me before him now what's crazy was I'm doing this interview right behind where I used to sleep on the street and I think I kept all that quiet did some my best work when I was homeless and I do this thing and may may looks at me and says no disrespect to my father Muhammad Ali but you're one of the most influential men I ever met my life and within five minutes

68:09of meeting you I'm already changing things about my life I decided right then okay then I have to own that man I have to live it for her man like I could never go back I can't go back and be an average mindless angry person I can't be caught up in the drama of everyday stupid like I gotta oh it to that girl you know and I have ever since I met her she's wanted the nicest people in my life man I have some amazing friends Joe I really mean it man and there's so many connections to your life you wouldn't even know like dude when people found out I was coming to meet you every one of them said the same pretty much the same thing Joe's such a nice Duty so intelligent I love listening to him I work with educators on a platform code necklace they love your stem Pro cast I know people up in Waterbury Connecticut to teach out of the self-defense class called practical

69:10self-defense third right now going crazy because you know they know Joe Jesse Kazakov skis on the first bellator card you know these guys are really crazy like Alex Cortes and all them dick they're like Joe is so next-level I'm saying so are you it's like Joe showing you to believe in yourself because he didn't get there because he had like been handed this like I remember reading stories about you go into the MMA and just doing it so you could drink money man like the get free tickets and go in right yeah that's true ain't it yeah when I first started working for the UFC I did the first not for money right I did the first 15 shows for free for free yeah see what I mean well it was probably foolish financially my manager didn't think was a good idea I just didn't care I just I was enjoying it that's what I love that guy it's what I want to do man I want to be - dude man

70:04was also a struggling company that I believed in I wanted to help them but what you're saying is interesting because you the one theme that you keep repeating that you want to do things for other people you keep saying that like you wanted to do that from maymay you wanted to make me proud yeah this is a constant theme that you you want you want to do good for other people that's an amazing amazing mindset for someone who's been through everything that you've been through that that sentiment that that and then your gratitude that's another very very powerful thing gratitude love and gratitude or two of the most in incredible expressions and some of the most influential because when you show true gratitude to people and true love to people they feel that it that affects the way they interact with the rest of the people that they're gonna experience like if they run into a new person just

71:00moments after meeting you they will be nicer and they will feel that gratitude and feel that love that's real and that's one thing that we all can do you know this thought that we're all a powerless and helpless it's one of the problems with this this society is that the society is so overwhelming we have so much information coming at us and the message is that what's important is you know beautiful girls with short skirts and fast shiny cars and big giant houses and private jets and diamond rings and expensive watches and all this horseshit and this is what people seek they seek that instead of seeking love and gratitude because it doesn't seem that that's important but that's way more important it's everything because that literally changes the world it changes the it side you know I always thought that expression the wings of the butterfly eventually become a hurricane

71:55that's stupid because that doesn't work that way a butterfly it just generates a very small amount of wind and they're small and it doesn't really work that way but the idea behind it what would it would what it represents as a metaphor is that you literally buy your one person that lives amongst 300 plus million people in this country one person with love and gratitude and inspiration especially the way you can express yourself that affects people you come in contact with and that in turn affects they people they come in contact with and that literally can change the world it actually could change the world there's a real plasticity man that's what I'm good at I know it I've helped so many people heal their lives when I've interacted with them and tense time I've made it let me stop you because this is one thing that you said to me before the podcast you said it again during the

72:50podcast do you only want to do this one podcast you don't want to say anymore and I want to ask you why because if you have this powerful message the more people you reach and the more you express yourself with this message you're not gonna cheapen your message what you're gonna do is you're gonna get it out to more and more people and the more people that you can get out your words and the way you express yourself that's gonna affect people it's gonna affect people in a very very positive way okay but the other side of that that no one can appreciate is that I'm failed I haven't been able to get anything going I tried to start a pond no no no no I had let me let me stop you let me stop you you're not failed first of all you've only been out of jail for 13 years that's crazy you were in jail for 22 years on death row there's not a whole lot of people get

73:40through that experience and can tie their own shoes after they're done you know you you're you have every right in the world to be shell-shocked and incapacitated you're not it's hard to get things going the world does not open its doors for you and success does not come easy it doesn't work that way so for you say you failed you haven't failed you've already written books you've already have a documentary made about you you're in the process of making a feature-length film about your life that's not a failure no I I just failed in getting the platforms together that I need it's and I guess I'm failing it's just it doesn't always work out right the first time it's not it's not a fail you're not a failure okay then here's the deal for you sir prove your words right to me and come on when I get my together you come on to my podcast and we finish the conversation later on I would do that

74:32but even if I didn't doesn't matter all right you can do anything but I just want to show you you yourself this idea that your you've failed is crazy it's you you have not failed if you've done things look first of all everyone does things that don't succeed and then you recalibrate and you adjust you try again no one succeeds and wins the world championship in their first fight no one writes a book without learning English and without practicing essays that becomes the greatest book the world's ever read read written whatever you you you you take time and you learn this is what life is about life is about this process and through that process you find yourself through the difficult tasks that you undertake maybe adjust and you become better you said you started a podcast you fit well how long did you do it for I didn't never cut off the crown no one believes in me

75:34I know I'm just saying first of all the podcasts are easy man with that phone you have right there I'm sure that phone has a audio recorder I've done by 11 my eleven dollar phone probably does oh they all do yeah every phone does that's not eleven all right - a regular Android phone right yeah no sighted phone it's finished one of these wafer these mean look if you had this phone ten years ago people think you were a wizard yeah man if you're in the fifth century of course yeah well that fart so sure has Joe you know you're kicking me into this right and I'm gonna have to respond because of the way I've always been wired I'm gonna do this then I do anything I am just no listen I am alright you need never again encourage me sir okay if I go around doing that for now I have been rough on myself because I thought I'd have a platform and accomplish the things that I wanted

76:27to and I felt really shitty that I wasn't able to take care and provide for my family and that's the heart of it really there's the struggle on that side I wouldn't give a about Fame I've had the most amazing experiences my life man while my first interviews was the Village Voice and the woman learns me at the end Jennifer Connor man she says man you know you're living one of the greatest stories ever told man this ain't no joke and every time she's told me that words in my head I realized comes with a hell of a ride in a price so if I gonna own it I gotta own all of it I keep telling people to own it when you do well so maybe I needed to bounce back and this is the - step forward and start kicking ass again and maybe that will get me out of those cheerful days that I've had to go through well you have every right to have a struggle I mean if anybody has any right to have difficult it's

77:17emotions and a difficulty expressing those emotions it's you I and I understand how you could dwell on things not succeeding the way you anticipated wanted them to but you just gotta keep going man you know I'm such an honest person I could never come on here and fake it you know I could never do that for you man I thought that would be so insincere so I just came in here and I decided let's pour it out honestly we did and I feel like the best thing about it is I chose like you're so like me in so many ways on the on the down low like you just you just want good like you just want to have a purposeful message that you want to share and that's what I thought was really cool I had a really cool experience last year I went to East Germany to speak before a company and I met all these Lebanese refugees after meeting Navy SEALs the dudes on the plane loved me man I built them up for

78:12being part of her military system I made them really respect and honor themselves then I was on the streets at Berlin hanging out with these Lebanese refugees and I made them feel so good about the fact that they still believed in each other so I have some magical ability to go around and touch different groups and and my message resonates with people who've been in the military or been through trauma or not been through trauma and I have a gift I know it and I've spoken in some of the most prestigious places and one of them is still to this day one of the highest honors I spoke at Saint John's Church in London where a ticket on the Vietnamese monk who marched with Martin Luther King in Selma Alabama spoke and he used to be my pen pal on death row he was the first man that gave me respect when I was on death row and he questioned why I didn't have respect a lot like you're doing for

79:07me today and he taught me to look at myself differently so I went through a whole one-year period of my experiences before I could speak at that church and when I did I was absolutely flawless because I knew it my friend was there and he was guiding me and somewhere within me I have some magical ability I don't know where comes from but I have an orator skill and once I'm past these dark days I'm sure I can lay it down well so that I can carry a message beautifully to educational fields purposefully into the corporate fields or wherever I want to go and I love it that I do have a winning hand and I have a gift behind it that was earned now you can taught yourself how to do this I mean think about what you were saying earlier about learning how to speak so that you could speak at your own execution that's why it's a powerful motivating force yes sir and to learn all of the world's

80:04religions so that you understood what it means to speak do you know in the Sanskrit religion a lot of the words are used as descriptive forms of things so chairs and the object it's the feeling of sitting so you have a responsibility and not only in the words that you choose to speak but in the manner that you deliver them and the vibrations within you that you caringly share with another person because there is a receptor within us all to the truth and it resonates and it rises within us and so I found that powerful ability to talk to myself in that manner so that I could love myself and I would stand in the window of my cell and talk to myself or quote beautiful text and I loved reading the Prophet by Kahlil Gibran I read it over 20 times because I thought his message was so powerful because he lost his entire family while he wrote this book over a three-year journey and

81:04although I might have come back from the ashes like peachy carnahan and the man who beat would be king from Roger Kipling I still feel like I have a valid message motivating me to go forward and my idea from this morning on is I want to go home to Laura and the kids and regroup get myself together and I know a lot of people are going to contact me because of your grace to having me on your show and what I plan to do over the next couple years Joe is I want to show myself not just use that I'm right being a kind man being a good-hearted man being meticulously polite doesn't mean you're a loser doesn't mean you're a fool and if people take advantage of you it's down to you to take as insult or rise the up about the insult and just move past it the reason I'm not bitter is because I didn't take it personal when they broke my teeth and put me in death row and

82:05tortured me I didn't take it personal because right now there are two million people incarcerated in this country I didn't take it personal because 150 other men got off of death row that's why I'm able to function because I don't take life personally but I take love personally I take it so personally that I'm willing love myself a lot of people can't do that do you know how hard it is to get a woman to look at herself without looking at a fall they can't stand it do you how hard it is to get a man to be honest with his emotions thinking that he's weak if he does I would rather have tears on my face walking down the street in frustration than just rip on somebody and hurt somebody that's the kind of caliber of level of humanity I want to find him myself and I think we all do I think the message like you said has been distorted by the social media so badly

82:59that we need more talking and I would have a dream of having a late-night talk show and play some of my coolest music and talk to people just average people and just open it up like I want to just share what's good about me because my mother was right wouldn't have just been a terrible waste of time if I got out of jail and I was just another on the street they would you know one of the things that keeps coming up is your longing for community and this is something I've been thinking about a lot lately because I think one of the things that people are constantly searching for in this world is happiness right so one thing that people don't have that they wish they had that comes up over and over again it's a reoccurring theme and one of the things that's also a big part of this life that we are living right now is this very recent disconnect between our neighbors our

84:01friends by commuting to work and being stuck in this stuffy environment where you can express yourself normally and this is the majority of your life the majority your time and then we wonder why we're sad and we don't spend enough time together with friends here's here's when you aren't sad when you're having fun with your friends because that's what human beings are meant to do there's they're meant to work together to do something together like something meaningful core of your healing its met were meant to have community we're meant to have friends and we're meant to laugh we're meant to share experiences we're meant to care for each other and when that's not happening in your life you feel like what you're doing is spreading the fingers of your community you're spreading the branches of your community by by expressing yourself in helping other people by expressing

84:52yourself in inspiring other people by sending your message out there this is a type of community for people that are longing for community you're connecting with people people that are longing to feel a connection and this is something that's missing this is something that's greatly missing in our society and you you understand it more than most because your time that they forced you to be separate from community that they did they gave you the opposite of community if you communicated they beat you up they gave you the opposite of the community they locked you in a cage didn't let you mingle with other people and then the people that were around you you didn't want to mingle with them horrific people that are just the worst examples of a life gone wrong and you're surrounded with him he's still emerged and that just out alone gives people hope and that hope is something that

85:46everybody needs I was a good person on death row to the point that a man named Tom Lowenstein wanted to write a book about me and I turned him on to Walter Oh Grod who still sit on death row and I asked him to write the book about Walter and then CNN death row stories wanted to contact me and have Susan's friend and narrate my story two and a half years ago I told him again Walters still on death row man do it for him I what's Walter Store the Walter Walter Oh Grod was convicted of killing a little girl and put her in a TV box but he didn't do it and he had the misfortune of having his brother attacked in his house and nearly murdered and being brought in for that investigation and then simply asked by a detective hey there's a girl killed on your street did you know anything about it he goes yeah I know about it next thing you know he's facing death

86:37row so a jury finds him not guilty but for the sabotage of one juror he ends up on death row well they said sabotage you're wondering he voted not guilty and then he drops out during the vault dear I lied I lied he's guilty so they declare a mistrial get the guy they called a Monsignor to come in and say that now he confessed to him they have a second trial so they put Walter on death row and I meet him and everybody's abusing the out of him so I did the unnatural thing I stood up for him for all the bullies and I told the two men that were abusing him if they put their hands on him again I was going to get involved and I started helping Walter with his lawyers and ever since I got out of prison I kept my word to stick by him and fight for him so I gave up opportunities could have changed my life and now death row stories is back and they're gonna do my story and Walters

87:29still on death row right now yeah and he's innocent and what can be done to help Walter contact Tom wolf and ask him why the innocence projects and the integrity unions won't take up his case there's no evidence and it was clearly I mean when you see the show on death row story it's just laid out so clear I was a little disappointed they didn't mention me that I turned him on to Walter my selfless act was overlooked but that was just my ego but I always am like that and that's what I love I know that they were despicable Joe and the axe that a lot of men did were despicable but if I let that stop me from loving any of them then I was going to be nothing so yeah a lot of them were really messed up man but the ones that needed it I set aside everything and still cared about men so it's a spell on Walters name G ro D Oh crud Walter Oh Grod was convicted of putting a little girl in a

88:26box and Philadelphia we need to get Kim Kardashian on the case yeah man cuz this is she's getting people released from pre-kindergarten it's Walter this man has suffered enormous ly prison is he in he's in Greene County Supermax and in pencil pencil vein I fought for my other friend Walt Ernie Simmons he got out the trials of Walter Oh Grod yeah the shocking murder so-called confessions in notorious snitch to sent a man to death row tom Lowenstein came to me while I was still on death row in 2002 and he said Nick my god your story I want to write a book about you and I said yeah that's brilliant but how about the guy sitting next to me it doesn't have lawyers or DNA or anybody to help him how about helping him because are you crazy you're giving up an opportunity I said dude it ain't like that I love this man he has no lawyers like I do so that's the parrot that's

89:23who I am so I didn't take credit for it but I really did try to help another man because I felt like I would be so disappointing if I just took and took and took for myself and you know I'm actually grateful I didn't go on your podcast two years ago I was a homeless person without a family and now I got the two amazing girls Zara and Bethany and my wife Laura these two English girls get the dream life change they get to move from Somerset England out here to organ and my little girl gets on a yellow school bus Joe she goes to bus every day she's in school they they like I'm in the community I got all these wonderful friends up in Oregon like Donny Hobbs and these guys that are my personal friends now I built my community again like I got all these cool people up there that love me I got my wife's right now in Salem with her friend Carly and they're opening up a

90:18new shop up there and all this stuff so I I really did it despite not having anything I did exactly what you said I went and overcame the deprivation and found community and built my tribe I know a lot of people struggle to have people in their life that aren't causing conflict it's you is allowing it man go out and find new people to be around because a lot of people want you if you're a nice person it's just hard for people to find those people sometimes and that's where they lose hope you know people they don't and one of the things they don't know where to get started right they don't know how to how to get their life going how to get moving how to feel good how to get success there's so many different things and to those people I say just do something the more things you do the more things you can do do something do anything whether it's commit to walking around the block ten

91:11times a night with whatever whether it's committing to writing your your life story and you know it stops a lot of people as their self imagery right mm-hmm I I was convicted of a rape and murder and in everyone's eyes I was a psychologically deranged person I had to live with that stigma every day right then when I got out everybody thought I must be crazy as because I spent eight thousand and fifty seven days in solitary confinement being tortured so there's no way I could be saying right their perspective had no effect on me because by that time I had given myself enough education to know the difference between what was done to me and who I am and this is the problem with a lot of people they fail to stop doing this thing where I am this or I am that and this is the problem so I really have never cared about the perspective of anyone in the negative except for

92:15when they got it wrong from my intent to do good with them and then it just became about all my own ego so I realized that the truth is as long as I know I'm doing right and I'm doing good it isn't going to matter about their perspective because the same person who thought I was a rapist scumbag murderer now thinks I'm one of the most eloquent speakers they met in her life their perspective about me changed but mine surely shouldn't but it did and that's where a lot of people suffer from they let that negative comment make them feel like they have to overcome it or have to live with it and I'll tell you what Joe I really never expected this but for the first time in my life from conducting the interview throughout the whole process I've been re-evaluating Who I am and what I'm saying it's like a slap in the face man like I came in here but draggled with my

93:04emotions carrying him on my sleeves and all the stress I haven't slept well for days I haven't taken care of my so that's I didn't do well in articulating and you gave me a wake-up call that I've never had before in any experience you can go back and look through the history of the many experiences of a head of interviews and I've done some outstanding ones I've never had a personal experience where throughout the course of speaking to another man I started to reevaluate everything I held firmly to and I promise you I'm gonna go and think a whole lot about this and get my together because I do owe it to a lot of people to be one badass what a hell of a message you're to yourself damn straight man I'm gonna do that I really am man so if you want me to come and speak before your corporate functions or a high school or university I'd do that better than anyone

93:58in fact I'm fine one of the finest speakers on the planet and I learned it because I watched Bruce Springsteen you remember that speech he gave at the Oscars for Philadelphia no I never watched the Oscars to get that up oh my god Bruce Springsteen is one of the finest speakers for you - yeah yeah no but just an image but dude gave one of the most profound speeches I'd waste the Ferger he made the nexus point between music and imagery so poignant that I was blown away by it so much so that when we made the documentary fear of 13 that's all I'd kept imagining when I spoke was the imagery we would be lended and I loved the fact that I worked very hard to bring the whole audience into my cell one time to spend with me my story in a way that no one ever did before I rocked it that's awesome yeah I like that I like the fact that I know I have talent in that field I don't

95:01want to boast but I have a gift and it came light years ahead of me when I watched I had 400 students in Ealing enraptured at a conference my friend an educator named Edmund Dobson set this whole thing up go there you could hear a pin drop because all along somewhere along the way an energy clicks in and I can hold the room in palm of my hand I've had some amazing experiences with it I don't know how to say it but that cult of personality lore of being on the stage and talking to people is powerful man and I can see why Tony Robbins and everybody gets up in no Nate do that I'm not a life coach I can't coach no one's life but I can tell you about your life in many ways that would make you really invigorated to want to make a better life for yourself but no one could truly be your life coach you got to do that yourself and I love it I love it that I understood those moments because

96:11one of the coolest things was I used to go to the Globe Theater anybody that understands Shakespeare understands the Globe Theatre is the center of the world for Shakespeare they would perform Titus Andronicus and then after which Cleopatra would come out on stage and introduce me to the Caryl now I had eight minutes ten minutes tops to do this thing and in eight to ten minutes I had a crowd who had been standing for three hours long play crying put money in a bucket for what I said to them and did it flawlessly every time and I did it for a whole summer in London it was the most amazing experience to stand there and look out over this Vista of London after you did this amazing thing where people never expected you and you are nothing to do with the theater you are just a human rights charity chosen by the theatre to come out and speak and I realized at that moment I had

97:09if I could get people who had been standing for three hours watching a play to have wet tears in her eyes putting money shoving it into a bucket for me then I knew I had some ability to finally speak I was no longer in aphasia affected destroyed distorted mind addled by drugs and used beyond belief to distortions of like I was so screwed up to come back to do that I knew I was do you know I wrote this whole book in only three days 200 and I have a gift Joe like seriously like I wrote and I have witnesses I wrote the whole book in two and a half days man because it was in me this story monsters madman was so powerful that when I met Laura my wife I told her I said you know what I'm gonna finally do it man I'm gonna get this out and it it just came out for two and a half days I barely slept eight did anything all I did was make love to my wife on a break

98:11or right and I mean poured it out and I poured out the whole book and I've realized that was needed to move on and it's what it's the best book I ever wrote my life and I'm so proud that it's my last one cuz I don't have to worry about no more stories I did the thing that was great all right so this one changed this is really fear of 13 my countdown to execution it went through hell it got cancelled it's now a fear of 13 then I wrote the kindness approach I did one called my journey through her eyes I didn't bring a copy and you wait a minute do you not want to write like why why do you say that ah because uh because I crafted my series of books that create and captivate my whole entire message right and I want to leave it pure I don't want to then go on and make up falsifications of things that didn't happen so all these are nonfiction all these are nonfiction all

99:07these events are true and poignant sin my life and I think that's the best thing to do stay true to who I am I was going to tell one story called that's enough for me as a fictionalized writer just to show everybody my talent because people in the past has said while you can write anything so I was going to do that but I've held back because I thought I want to leave a cool I want to leave it like this is my series of work my work is I wrote to prison books and I wrote two books that will guide people in life how not to be screwed up or bitter and I want to leave that as my message I want to go into other things but those are my books and I'm proud of the work I did I got it out of my system I'm a published author I can go down in history as that right I'm cool with that I don't really want to then push it and think that I can then lure people into reading more works

99:59that I can try because that's not really fair to them didn't I mean I want to keep it that way I think that's one of the things I want to try and stay true to now speaking that's my love no Nick if someone wanted to hire you to speak where would they go Nick Harris org so it's really simple everyone on the podcast can easily find me on the other social medias but I have like I said my really close friends Adam Callahan and his wife just had a baby so they're running my website Nick Harris org and a lot of people can reach me for functions like that but I really love the fact that I have a chance also with this my verse com to go ahead and go into schools and there's a really cool thing you know this X generation times three men they're like so computer savvy right so much so did you actually are starting a trend there's no longer 15 minutes of fame there's the five-second video clip

100:55of Fame now and it's been reduced it's just like everything's five seconds you know I mean it's no longer so everything in the education field is coming hours or faster and faster so we need to use the analytics of something like my verse to go ahead and get a child to figure out who they can go and be in their careers and then follow that correct path you can't just throw it against the wall anymore Joe you have to really work hard to get children to feel good about being a taxi driver a painter you know it's not no shame to be a person who goes out and does a simple manual job if that makes you happy as a human being you should be able to do that without the stigma right but the school's not going to tell you that you know they're gonna tell you could be anything but why wouldn't you want to find out what would make you happy in life and be that right that makes sense to me

101:47so I'm not gonna learn that from school now learn that from people yeah enough from people and you learn that from from online more than anything today and that's why I want to be involved in the educational field I think that's my greatest gift is someone who went to prison who hadn't ever read a book who accomplished the things that he did then can share how the purpose of my education was so that I was able to process life enough to handle it to give myself enough separation to realize who I was as a human being is not the sum total of my misery and that I could then help others structure their lives through politeness to go and get a good education and I love that fact that I worked so hard through all these different things to not lose that message man and it really does work for a lot of young people they find that their self restrict respect really does

102:40grow when someone gives them just a small little bit of a break man they're so honest I love I love it I'll never tire of it in that one regards I've touched so many young people's lives men that's beautiful Nick that's a great message and thanks for being here man I really appreciate this yeah me too I really do can I give a quick shot all right so I got some good friends of mine I I really messed up on Alex Ortiz and I like these young dudes these fighters joke they're all mad about you and it I like it what do you think about the Bellator anyway love it yeah yeah I think doing a great job yeah Jesse Kasich asked he's gonna fight this and I like the fact that his father teaches that kun towel with that prison style of martial arts well it's the old style it's like it isn't like the martial arts that most people would know because it's derived from the

103:39Filipino prison systems it's like really pure styles of quick attacks and stuff like that so it's nothing to boxing but no III like it that like dudes like Mike born all these guys been really supportive to me and everyone like I said that knew I was coming on air I just want to tell them if I forgot who you are thank you all for being so supportive and I really want to say thank you to my wife for being so there for me lately and I'm really grateful that we've learned in this wonderful lesson that I might belong to you sweetheart but I also have some good left to do and I'm gonna try and do both well and I'm very grateful to everyone listening especially to you mr. Rogan you're really nice young man thanks man I'm grateful to you as well no I mean that Joe and I know you're gonna wish you said I'm a nice young man like you're my grandma you're a nice young

104:27man hey even better I'm your sexy granddad give you some love boy thank you go and have a good day everyone I love you around the world bye bye bye moochy man bye bye bye bye everybody