Banachek

00:02here we go four three two one boom and now we're live how are you sir I am wonderful we had wonderful chat officer yeah you probably would love to have had that on here but I just no no I'm gone I would never want to do that to you yeah no idea exactly I wouldn't want to do that to ya yeah so listen man it's great to see you again it's good to see you again been a while yeah well you I know we ran into each other once and Fiddle a bar my eye candy yeah I turn around and you turn around and we made eye contact and eye candy I have to be about 45 years ago right I know we talked about doing a podcast back then even yeah I'm glad we finally got together and do it yeah me too gonna be fun you did that TV show that I did a long time ago Joe Rogan questions everything and you blew me away you and me and Duncan and you showed us all the tricks that people you

01:04well you didn't you showed us that they were tricks but you didn't show us how to do the trick I broke one thing down for you but that was about it it was a psychological thing cuz I here's the thing right it's better to know that you can be fooled rather than tell you how you can be fooled and we'll get into this about with scientists and how I fooled them in a little bit but people always tell me why don't you just teach parapsychologists the tricks and the problem is is for every single trick that I have I probably have about seven or eight methods so if I teach you one method Joe somebody else will come along and maybe a method abend a key they'll do it a completely different convincing way and you'll be looking for that one method and you may say because you don't have the experience you may say this has to be real I know how the tricks done they're not doing that they are actually

01:50doing something completely different this has to be real so it's better to get an expert let me ask you this one because my friend Eddie was at Venice Beach and this guy was doing he had like some save the rainforest thing and he said if I tell you your birthday will will you listen to me and and donate some money or something right and he goes okay in the he just goes May 15th right this is very straight out like that yeah I just figured it out yeah oh my god could someone do that I I can't tell you because I wasn't there there could have been other circumstances they could have been something overheard there could have been something he's seen he may have been in the store when the guy took his driver's license there could be there's a million things that could have happened that your friend Eddie was not aware of before that guy even walked up to him so I can't I really can't answer

02:37that because it's circumstantial and here's the other thing does Eddie really remember everything exactly the way that it was you know has he forgotten something and left something out in that story because he's told it so many times and usually here's the thing right when people want to convince you of something they embellish mm-hmm and the more times they tell that story that embellishment becomes their reality they basically create a whole new reality for themselves that they forget that maybe they wrote it down they forget that maybe they said something they forget that the person might ask specific questions you might have said yeah I get the feeling that you're probably not born in the beginning of the year maybe later in the year maybe in the fall or something like that person says no but I am bald landing in the year now you know it's the wintertime so now you get

03:22within a few months right there so there's they're always within mentalism which is what I am a Mentalist and we'll explain what that is in a minute but there are ways to do those things and there's many ways to do those type of things so without being there I can't tell you exactly what your friend Eddie experienced to him it was very very real you don't believe in any psychic power I dare to say okay it's fair to say but if you just say it that way it sounds very cold it kind of sounds like I'm an I'm a dick I know I'm a skeptic Nick you know what I can't because it means I'm not having been open-minded I am very open-minded about these things and whenever I investigate a new phenomena I open I step back I put everything that I I think that hey it's not real I put that aside and go this could be the one I'm gonna give them the chance but I'm gonna look at it I am

04:11gonna be a little bit skeptical I am gonna do you know a double-blind test I am gonna step back and look at it from a scientific point of view I'm not gonna be stupid about this and I'm not gonna let them get away with something and I also know they may be self deceived and I've seen so much of the type of phenomena that I usually know what's going on when I do see it so I can honestly say that I've seen so much phenomena and I've looked at so much of it and I've seen the best people out there and I've tested some of the best people out there that I have not seen anything indicative that psychic phenomena is genuine have you ever heard of anyone who is reasonably believable that has seen anything that counts I think you hear that all the time when you see a John Edward on TV or you hear these these antidotes and stuff like that and it's just like you're telling

05:00me about Eddie so you telling me that sounds like oh wow that person could be really psychic right but I know that there's probably more going on when that person well I'm glad you answered the way you answer because that doesn't make a lot of sense that yeah you did tell stories and people do forget how the story actually went see the human memories very flawed oh absolutely that's why we can change a person's memory you know there's been plenty of experiments that have done on that if you know you take a certain group of people I can't remember her name is it's just not coming to me I mean I have dyslexia as well which is really weird when you see what I do on stage cuz I work with numbers I work with names I don't use a lot of mnemonics for these things so I have a really hard time recalling names and books that I read and stuff like that I just it's really

05:41to come to me but it takes a while for those things don't flex your work like what is it I always thought that it like switched things hey girl I did it in high school at it it does switch things around oh it's one of those things like if I'm working with numbers I can't I don't even I think what it is is I got so disappointed with numbers when I was young I love dumb but I love the fact that everything in the world is numbers I love the idea of numbers of what they do but I think when I was young I would get so frustrated even in high school and in middle school I would do math problems but I would figure out a way that worked for me to do the math problem and then the teacher would come up they say like show you work and I would put it down and they'd say no that's wrong I've but I got the right answer yeah but that's not the way we do it you need to do it this way and the

06:28normal way of doing things was extremely difficult for what is switch it switches numbers around you know and if you're trying which is I'll switch letters for me I'll use words that are the wrong words like I could be talking to you during this podcast and then I'll listen to the podcast and I'll go oh my god why did I use that word you know I I had a thing where I'll give you an example the type of things that happen to me I have a line when I say in some of my shows where I say I I read thoughts not minds what I mean by that husband and wife is sing on a park bench pretty girl goes jogging by husband turns his head looks wife slaps the husband in the face we know what the husband was thinking we know what the wife was thinking right we haven't read their minds but we do know what their thoughts are so it's sort of that body language thing and I remember

07:15one time doing this for a skeptics group and I was on stage and I was like husband and wife is sitting on a park bench pretty girl walks by husband slaps the wife in the face so I sitting exactly the opposite of the way and they just thought it was a joke like they thought I was being stupid and just just a joke but I do that kind of stuff consistently and I ever really hot like if you say so other people do that yeah it's really bad for me like I do I do it consistently you'll you'll talk about things and I hear you talk about things and you'll use words but I actually know what the word means but if I wanted to recall that word and use it cannot remember it but what's the mechanism like what is happening in your mind where it switches things around yeah I don't know is it just I don't know for me I call it the source of me it's the effect and it's a really up word

08:05right for dyslexic to use dyslexia like I came up with a better word for that the way it is with all that stuff but it's like I got a lisp there's an S in there it's like so so you is there anybody that like I mean there's the James Randi challenge right famously word which I was in charge of the million dollars and I tested many psychics well I guess what I should do is probably were in charge of it how so yeah well let's go back to my beginning so you understood how I got here on this journey oh that's okay yeah all right and I'll talk about a couple of personal things in the very beginning so I was born in 1960 so I'm 58 years old and you know it's yeah and I was born in England left there and came to the United States my mom divorced my dad in that year went back to England and I'm giving you this so you understand where I'm coming from and how I got on this journey uh she had

09:03two kids we emigrated to South Africa in 1969 she abandoned me in South Africa at that time with my two brothers a year and three years old we had a stepfather was an alcoholic we saw it maybe on Sundays maybe if I dragged him in from the car into the house we would see him then so I was changing diapers I was taking care of my brothers and so forth Wow uh and I was there until I was fifteen years old now it was during that time that I I heard a guy by the name Arry Geller who was a famous psychic and he's the first one to claim that he could actually bend objects with his mind like silverware and became really famous for it he was supposedly they did research with him at standard Stanford research it's ended Stanford Stanford Research Institute and he was using that sort of it as an endorsement to say that he was genuine and one of the things that gala did was he said if you bring metal

09:49objects to the radio you can get them to bend as well so I mean think about my radio there was no City there at the time they had Springbok TV they didn't have the actual station but they were putting it up and they had TVs in the store at the time but they were playing Pop Eye VHS movies back then you know uh however they played it back then but no TV station so that was the thing everybody there listened to the radio and he's like if you bring it to the radio you can do it with the Unleashed powers of your mind you can get metal and so I went around a house I found a little pin in my mom's old sewing kit and I held it up and I looked at it and I said it and I concentrated on it and it bent well on a micro-level at least I thought it bent so I convinced myself that had bent minutely and I don't think that years later but in my mind I had got that to happen from

10:41there I went to Australia to go be with my biological dad and from there to Colorado and it was while I was in Colorado that I picked up a book by James the amazing Randi and that book said the truth about your together in fact the book was changed the name was changes later to the truth about you the truth of Uri Geller from the magic of Uri Geller and that book basically said that was a magician posing as a psychic and no adult had ever told me that before all the adults that I did know they believed in early so I believed in his one I learned a valuable lesson just because people in a position of authority because they're adults that older than you doesn't make everything they say correct which I learned that collects it that way because keep in mind I was really socially inept because I was always taking care of my brothers I had no free time so I wasn't hanging

11:26out with other kids I wasn't doing those things I had a great life don't get me wrong I had a really great life in South Africa I did stupid stuff by jumping off bridges into trains this when we get apples we would have apples to eat at home and stuff like that jump off the train take it home so those are great things those are great times actually believe even though it sounds like it's really sad it's not so anyway I read this book and in the book Randi sort of mentions alludes to a method for bending a nail and so I picked I got some nails I started creating my own ways I'm sort of a problem solver I can you give me something you want to do and I can go ahead and figure out a way to do it it's why I work for people like Criss Angel and you know David Blaine open his second TB especially with one of my effects and I'm the first person to be buried alive six feet on the ground

12:12chained and handcuffed in a coffin and dig my way to the surface which I've done twice and almost died twice doing that but anyway getting back on track yes so I'll get back to that later yeah so I really hear about that so I can't just gloss over that sir I'll gloss over a whole bunch of I've done crazy crazy stuff where I should be dead I look back now and I go I am really like I mean even when I was a kid I was crawling down just just to do it I'd look out the top storey window and I'd go I think I can follow him down that drainpipe I think I can do it upside down and I would actually climb upside down using my feet to keep myself up there and I'm down the drainpipe to get down so I did a lot of dump dump them stuff um so I was in high school and I started creating methods for a bending silver so much so that all the kids there went to plastics I'll be in that school actually

12:59went to plastic silverware cuz all the kids in there we're bringing all their silverware to me so we're getting low in silverware they went to plastic silverware I got in trouble you were bending the silverware with your mind is that what you're saying well I was making it music I was using tricks to make it look like was bending it with my money I was cray I was basically doing what gala was doing only the difference was is I didn't realize it until I saw Geller I was I'd never seen gala work I just heard about him on the radio and I heard you're supposed to see the metalbend so in my mind the effects that I created to bend metal you actually saw the forks and the spoons and that bending and if you see any magician working today more than likely they're using a couple of my techniques to make metal look like it's actually bending I even figured a way to make the school bell go off so we

13:44could get out of school early I got suspended for that why'd you do that because I could know how oh how did you do that there was a there was a wire and there was a short that goes through this one classroom that I was in and I was able to figure out how to exactly how to get that short to work so the bell would go off and we got out of school and it was just connecting the two and it's like you don't connect you connect and it goes off so it was like oh okay this is great and God with the clock up on the wall if you look at a clock I realize that as the clock hand goes around all the way around it looks like it's slowing down when it comes back up it's not it's just an optical illusion from one side so I would make kids think that I was making the clock slowed down and I figured a way on an old timing Timex watch that I used to be out a way that if I pulled the stem out and slowly

14:27turned it backwards and pushed it in the second hand would keep moving for about 35 seconds and then it would just start like going like click late and then it would stop so I could put my watch in somebody's hands so I come up with all these different methods for accomplishing all these different feats I started learning how to do a thing called muscle reading which we can talk about in a little bit muscle reading yeah it's like if it's an old old technique that nobody uses and I was really surprised that people were not using but it was really really popular back in the late 1800s where if you if I take your wrist and it's based upon the ideomotor response if I take your wrist and I tell you look at my other hand and I want you to imagine it actually touching an object think of it one of these objects five objects on the table think of my hand actually touching it

15:13and I move my left hand which you're not holding here actually I'm holding with you with my right hand but I'm moving your hand in sync with it if you're thinking go to the left go to the left or the left I can actually feel the resistance when I go to the right in your arm so you give off this this this thing that lets me know exactly where to go and you keep reskin did it with his check you would hide the check and and before that poor guard did it with his check and I've done it with my check when I do shows in the past where they can hide your check anywhere in the theater you take somebody's head and you tell them think of my other hand and they have to know where the objects hidden and think of that hand actually going there and touching it and you can actually find the object so I was doing a lot of muscle reading back in those works on everybody whatever you get some

15:58stone-cold Psychopaths that know they have to really truly be thinking it and wanting it to happen and that's why I reframe it in the aspect of you see me do things with my mind I want you to try to do something with your mind will this hand to actually touch that object oh so they do and they don't realize that subtly they're pushing and pulling you in the right direction and you can even say them don't pull me in the direction let me pull you but you're still pulling and pushing with them and you can find the actual object and so I wrote a book on it it's called psychophysiological thought reading psychophysiological reading reading which is my mating I didn't knowing that what I did was we call it muscle reading in the business and in the business yeah and I started looking at some of the older terms for it and I found that term psychophysiological thought reading I

16:43thought that's a great name for the book is every book I've written on mentalism because I write books that teach people and video I have they all start with a pea-sized series you know it's yes it's all I've talked to you know I've talked to Penn about magic and about illusions and and he's you know funny about it and he laughs and says it's all lies and and you know he makes it seem fun but the way you described it it it became a little bit more compelling because you're seemingly obsessed with it like obviously to get as good as you got at becoming a Mentalist like you had to be like even the way that you rattle off things you there's some very little pause to you you stop and start and I talk too fast yeah everybody says you talk way too much as fast you just talk fast yeah I mean I can hear you it's very clear but that's also what I noticed when you were doing the reading

17:36when we did in front of the the crowd of people and you were able to pick out certain things didn't make the air because it didn't fit the format one of the things what Joe's talking about is there's a part in the show where I ask people just to think of things and then I start getting initials and then I get names and then I get yeah you you're actually thinking about your grandmother and how you went on a bike ride with her through certain forest and went to Lake Wallenpaupack and your birth date is this and that and I get birthday freaks out there yeah yeah they're freaky but the weirdest thing is like the they're also overwhelmed by the fact that you never stop talking like it's just it's just ready go it just keeps coming like huh what how do you know that no no don't don't worry about that we'll get that to the minute you know where that comes from Joe that comes from back in my

18:26early days I well in the very beginning well let's get in with that story okay I'll get to I'll get to that to where I work the places because that sort of comes from working the comedy clubs and some really shitty shitty places and having to grab people's attention so from there I ended up writing Randy a letter just out of the blue because I was getting a little cocky I guess at young you know that age because I was getting away with all this stuff and wrote Randy let I said look if you ever need a kid to try to convince scientists that this stuff is real I would be happy to so long as I come out and say it's a hoax at the very end I had a couple of hypotheses and one of them was a scientist at lamented for years there's no evidence of the ESP on a proper scientific controls and this is back in the 80s because a lack of funding it was my contention had nothing

19:11to do with funding you had to do with the scientists were going with a pro biased opinion and they were documenting their own beliefs rather than using proper science first of all to find out if it was even genuine so they were not using the proper scientific method they were basically just saying I believe this is real I'm gonna get it on tape or I'm gonna get it to where I can document it so the rest of the world slowly down were they biased towards believing that it was real what's sake no believing it was real because you don't get usually you don't get into parapsychology unless you have an interest in it and usually you don't have an interest in it unless you think there's something there right dude those ghost shows drive you crazy yeah they do because I know I've actually but I've actually been called to work on a couple of them behind the scenes and I always tell them no I

19:54do it and I have some friends that have worked on them behind the scenes to try to make some of the investigators freak and they're using magic tricks to get the investigators freak and the great thing about those kind of shows is you only need to do one little thing just something falling off a shelf because that's all you need right I mean it's like yeah there's a ghost it fell off the shelf they play that tape over and over and over again they show a little shadow or something like that there's nothing dumber on television no no and and merchants are smarter and I know for a fact there are people that work behind him behind those scenes fooling those guys when we work I work with Criss Angel a lot all right the early days I worked with him on almost all of his shows I've done over a 100 episodes of television with Chris and we every year we would do one episode that

20:41was a seance episode that type of thing and we brought a group of researchers in and the moment they got off the bus we had all this stuff set up and everything else to master them the moment they got off the bus I told my guys I said we're not using any of that we're just gonna use pure psychology with these people and that's what why because I could tell they was they were such beliefs anything I suggest to them they're gonna go for so let's say we have six rooms and I need this one room to be the room that is haunted because it's a story that goes on behind it was something else that's already been said and in position or it's got a match up with a bunch of celebrities who feel something in the room as well all I got to do is once we go in our - you know you feel anything so yeah I feel a little haunting I feel this in that you know this room I really

21:28want you to take time with that's all I have to say and it's like the psychics getting headaches and they just they go they go crazy because I've already put it in their head at that point so the stuff they come up with is gonna be much more believable than any of the little tricks that we had like hidden recordings and stuff like that the stuff they come up with is gonna be much more believable and much more of a hit are there any real like supernatural investigators that actually believe in ghosts or are they all con people no there's people who investigators I believe in it yeah absolutely but those shows they must know they're I think yeah like what is it paranormal state was one of them you know and I I think it's some of them are a little abusive to because I work with the little kids sometimes and they talk the kids into believing these things and and and it's

22:17just it's just some of them are little yeah there's a little creepy a little creepy what they do to them and you know they usually don't have a psychologist taking care of the people afterwards to walk them through it and it's just it's all the psychologists they do is also a paranormal investigator the moon using these kind of things and it's gonna comment at a very slanted angle so I've not seen a single one of these shows that I don't look at and go and just end up turning it off so yeah did they but is there anybody who like legitimately but like anybody who's a reasonable person who legitimately believes in ghosts and legitimately believes like in every movie every haunt horror movie there's always like this one real researcher yeah there are people like Lloyd alla Bakken you know who I know is he believes in this kind of stuff too and does he have a tumor no

23:07it doesn't have a tumor as far as I know he does not have it - he's a nice guy you see I respect a lot of these guys I get along with it right I think you have to write because you've got to be at a debate with these people you got beer to talk to them and if you show them respect they're gonna show you did you ever want to like reason with them and sort of explain why what they're doing is faulty or we have come we have we have conversations you know about certain things certain type of testing you know and and and how how ridiculous some of these things are and and but you know they're gonna be convinced that there's something there even if it's a little little something like one little thing you can't quite knock out a way to do that I mean it's like when I work with a past so back then washing University in 1979 james s mcdonnell gave a half million dollars to

23:52washington university all right and that was shortly after i had work randy that let him and now james less mcdonald he was mcdonald aircraft you know the banshee and all those different i be all named after spirits by the way if you do your research you'll find all these things so he really truly believed in in in the afterlife and his thinking was look if they can find something that's even psychic that might be indicative that maybe there's an afterlife you know at least it's indicative there's something supernatural paranormal there are things we don't can't understand so he gave half mandalas washing University to form a laboratory call that McDonald laboratory for psychical research short we called it Mac lab a Peter Phillips there had an interesting parapsychology but really didn't want to get involved but the university said look we want this money we want this lab you believe

24:41in this kind of stuff you know you're interested in sound of stuff and he was a physicist so they put him in charge they had over 300 and some applicants and out of all the I sent them a letter out of all the applicants they had there was only two that were accepted I mean they did some research with other people were there two that they really accepted it was myself and another kid that I didn't know at the time by the name of Michael Edwards and Michael turned out to be a magician as well and he had also spoke to Randi so I get a call I I said there's an Associated Press article that came out and that's when I wrote to them and they said yep we'd like to we'd like you to come visit I get a call from Randy he says you know there's a guy at Washington University who's been given half a million dollars to study psychic phenomena I'm like can you just think of

25:27his initials for me I said this is a P and a P he said how did you know I said I've already been accepted I was gonna let you know and he started to tell me about Mike that Mike had already been there Mike had been to key in their hands they would completely convinced that this was a real psychic phenomena but at that point Mike wasn't quite sure where to take it and he knew Randy was the expert at debunker in the field because Randy had the debunked Geller and other psychic phenomena so he wrote he spoke with Randy on the phone and and wrote to Randy as well and they had some conversations and I said no and I said can I trust Mike he says I don't know enough about him to trust him and Mike had the same concerns about me because Randy had mentioned me to him and said you should mention you know my real name is Steven Shaw so it's Steven Shaw back then banachek

26:08came years later because people couldn't remember Steven Shaw all thing to remember banachek because the nice TV so I I did a corporate gig one day and which is good that you say that so I did a gig one day that was a corporate gig and the guy got up there and he's like either I was really insecure you know as we already talked about so I had my introduction here's my introduction and he says I want to do my own introduction you know about you I've seen you do different things than that so he gets up there and he says I seen one the Today Show CNN live he's done this he's done that I've seen him do this and that please welcome Stephen what was the last name again great so I get up I do my gig I got another corporate gig that week I get up and say the last guy forgot my name please you know remember my name is Stephen always Stephen Shaw yeah I got it no problem he's done this he's not

26:57mad he's on that please welcome Stephen what was the last name again holy crap it happened to me a third time and so I started thinking about why is this happening and how can I fix this well one way to fix it probably I think back now is just say hey read my thing don't even memorize it just read it right but Stephen is such a common name and Shaw is such a common name there's really no real hard syllables in the except for maybe the T and the V a little bit not really it's a soft syllable so it kind of passes right through the brain so they're thinking so much about everything else they want to say you know see it in live that today show this and that I've seen their story that they want to tell anything so by the time they get to my name they haven't really thought about my name will memorize my name so I wanted a name that had at least two hard syllables something that

27:44would stick in the brain and I wanted a one-word name not a two-word name a one-word name like a rapper yeah this is but this is before I'm dating myself this is real rap medoras prepared that's a check so see cek right there and I love that show he was an insurance detective and what year was that show I don't know I think it was only one season right if I'm not mistaken Jamie I don't know if you look that up or not but I think it was a season or season one yeah that was a great show because he always had these great polish sayings that meant absolutely nothing but it was just yeah yeah yeah yeah very charismatic in that show but the the way he solved it was almost like a magic trick it was like they put the statue on the truck the truck arrives and it goes all the way across the United States and no statue where did it go it turns out that what they actually

28:35put on the truck they thought it was a statue it was covered and it was in this crate but it was a block of ice so by the time it got there it had already been switched out by the time it got there it had melted so a sort of magic in its own way as well so I had it was sort of kindred spirits in a way to that and I love the name Banacek and I was like you know what if I use Banacek the way it's spelt there they're gonna say been a sec and so I put ba na CH ek I didn't wanna put an extra C at the end because then it becomes bounce a check or something stupid like that so yeah I get banana check I get bonus check you know I get all these things but but at least here's the thing right so the old timers back then the CEOs of the company the presidents of the company if they remember the TV show they may make fun of me at first but they're gonna remember the name and at the end of the

29:23show they now associate it with me cuz I've blown their minds if they don't know it they've got to come up to me and say how do you pronounce that so they're thinking about my name never had a problem since so there's the old TV show banachek but the way I spell it there was a greyhound there was a dog there was a band called Banacek and there was a construction company now the construction company owned the banachek or own you know the website but they didn't do anything with it so and this is back before you could do automatic payments like it just goes every year automatically for you so I would sit there every year just waiting on that all everyday you know and I knew it was gonna go up and I finally got it like I get after three years of it just sitting there I finally was able to get it but yeah so anyway that's my name that's how I got my name okay so go back to this

30:10Michael Edwards thing so Mike Edwards yeah we yeah we I go often he's weird I do this all the time I go off on so many different tangents cuz I just it's so many different stories in so many different directions I know so with Mike and you'll find that out in my life there is so much psychology applied to everyday life for me like the name why did I choose my name there was a reason for it they say it's not just haphazard and stuff like that or it's not sometimes it's just a joke like you know I got really sarcastic sense here I go off another tangent all right let's go back so here I am with brandy telling me about them and and I said yeah I've already been accepted Mike and I are supposed to show up and by the way somebody recently bought my barry sonnenfeld had bought my right like a life rights with because of this whole thing which is called project

31:01alpha that I'm telling you the story about now and he had bought it and wanted balance Orkin to write it but this is way back then no this is now like not so okay like couple of years ago me up with your time I know Aaron was Aaron was yeah Aaron was busy so he couldn't do it and and then when he wasn't busy Barry got busy my life writes that what they had were basically you know ran out so I've taken it now and I'm working with another production company to do a series on what we're talking about right now so but anyway so here I am I'm with Mike Edwards we show up at the airport in st. Louis first time gonna meet we meet each other we hit it off right away I don't have my driver's license I had somewhat an informant idea I don't want a for my ID I had ID some other former ID and Mike he had his and he could drive he just got his at the time so what if I used my password

31:51I don't anyway this whole thing you do this this fast-talking thing this is a part of the shuck and jive though this is a little bit of me but since I understand but you know it also is very effective that's what a shuck and jive artist does they talk very fast and they never pause so you never get a chance to interject yeah and they're constantly going so if they're reading euro or saying something you have to keep up with them and part of the keeping up with them is you get a little bewildered and bewildered you forget what you've said or they've said and you're trying to sort of keep pace with them and you can't and next thing you know they like oh my god I can't believe you know that how'd you figure that out well we'll get to that later and then you keep going and you keep this part of the entertainment aspect of it yeah it's not what I'm doing right now because when he

32:36was fighting he would put a pace on you you couldn't keep up with right right yeah see you always analyze it with fighting which is great vulnerabilities yeah exploit vulnerabilities in the human mind it one of them is that you talk and think faster than most people so most people when you're talking they don't have it like right you just did right there you you want to get a chance and I'll let you cuz I'm gonna keep talking and as I keep talking you get bewildered that's one of the things that you do to people whether you realize it or not you do it because you've done it that way for a long time it's probably might become a pattern yeah has become a pattern to make the other person feel insecure so you don't before it's a pattern for me being able to think and not forget things I'm saying them like because like as you're so effective that you said that there's another thing that

33:23popped in my I've got a like all day long I have songs in my head it doesn't stop like I I do this with my teeth all the time playing this awesome music in my head like constantly caught way if I'm not thinking about anything else I have songs in my head constantly and I've even I went to the dentist and I said hey you know I've got this thing with my teeth and I'm tapping my teeth I'm wearing him down you know what's going on and he says oh musicians do that all the time I go well I always have music 24 hours a day in my head so Wow but now I've gone off somewhere and there was au handwriting so if you look at my hand look my handwriting how bad my head right like it's really hard a freaking read right it's not that bad somebody just wrote me a letter that's me and I read the letter some friend of mine sent me something he wrote me a letter and I've read his letter I was

34:05like well what the is that cuz it's just scribble well that's me writes me writing me bad so slow normally when I write I can't read it myself well that's the thing what you just said you're trying to keep up with your thoughts yeah and that's one of the things about bad handwriting they say that you're trying to keep up with what you're thinking it's always going a mile a minute it's got a thousand different ways and I think it's part of my problem solving is like when people give me ideas that they want okay this is what I'd like to do it's a magic effect how do I do it I'm able to rattle off like 10 15 different but wait detective like as a Mentalist that way that that pattern of talking is so bewildering to people that they just sort of like huh what what yeah you've got him on the ropes always it is that thing of even in my stage show and you'll have to come to a stage

34:56show sometime look I would love you to come well I saw the mini version of it when you did the television shows blown away I mean the first thing I do is I come out before I don't even introduce myself where did you do it so if people can want they wanna sign I was just at Planet Hollywood feeling for the Incans aliens yeah I've got a a thing coming up Rochester Fringe Festival Rochester New York I mean I'm at a lot of different College you can go to my website banachek comm and look up the dates but the Rochester is gonna be on the 13th 7 p.m. 14th 5 p.m. then I'm on the 20th at 9 p.m. the 22nd I didn't remember those 3 p.m. I know so yeah like you can find it on the you can't even help yourself you can find it you can find it on them you can find it on the website so it's on the website yeah but you're in Vegas all the time right I'm in Vegas a lot I work Vegas that

35:41much oh really I'm busy now really until beginning of November I'm gonna be like different places during different places some of its corporate some of its college you know it's a mixture of a mismatch of different different things so go back to this whole james randi uri geller so here I am with Mike Edwards at the airport and we're hitting it off and everything Peter Phillip shows up he's the professor that I mentioned a minute ago who's gonna be doing the investigating of us and he has this wristband on and I'm always asking questions what's this what's that and I'm always noticing things and he said it was a wristband that he got from a witch doctor in Africa that helps protect him oh I'm starting to think this might be a little easier than I thought it was gonna be because going in I was like I didn't know these guys skeptical they could run this one-way

36:28mirrors are they gonna be trying to trick us catches I had no clue so we get into we we had Peter Phillips's car because Mike was too young to drive a rental Peter Phillip says a rental he's in front of us we're following him and this is this is how it all starts really I'm sitting there and it's kind of like me talking all the time I'm looking around I'm always doing something always noticing something I look in the back seat and I notice there's a briefcase I reach in the back and I kind of pull it under the dash it's locked and to me like if somebody locks something it means they don't want you inside there of course right but why does anyone who's in there Oh briefcase easily can just open the lock so I pick the locks open it up inside there's a whole bunch of silverware so either this guy's a kleptomaniac or this is a silverware he's gonna be using for the experiment

37:13so I start bending it all up lock the briefcase put it in the back sit there for about 2 more minutes open up the glove compartment there's some extra keys and things in the globe apartment I start betting those up the event is keys well I'm a psychic right this stuff this happens what if he need those keys and get in his house yep but I needed him to be convinced I was genuine are you all right so I end up looking over the car keys that are hanging out the keys that are hanging out on the car key out of the ignition I start to reach over to get them and Mike just looks at me and says I think you've done enough stop you know so but there's there's this really interesting phenomena right we knew that in the laboratory everything we did at that point was gonna be on a micro-level it's gonna be very small because it had to be because we couldn't make it look like it's a

37:59trick we it had to look like minut we're not just that we didn't know if they were gonna be watching it's like I said through one-way mirrors and things like that so there's an interesting phenomena at the time that was called spontaneous pique and that is stuff that just happened hey Pete psychokinesis pique shortened to psychokinesis telekinesis psychokinesis the whole thing they're all the same thing so there's these things just supposedly happen around these psychics that can bend metal mm-hmm stuff move stuffs break start that so those things were the things that would convince him and keep him holding on even if we did a Big Bend out of the laboratory but not on camera that's the thing that would keep him going I want to get that on film I definitely want to get that on film I'm gonna document that someday that's gonna happen in the laboratory when we ended

38:48up getting to the laboratory all the students at the University were extremely skeptical very very skeptical but they had heard about the spontaneous PK so they hid things underneath the video recorders in it there was a separate room and they hid all kinds of things everywhere around I noticed there was stuff hidden I mean why is there a quarter hidden under that VCR you know or is there a fork hidden behind that cupboard you know it doesn't belong there so I started bidding up all those things on lunchtime and that convinced all the students that we were genuine as well Oh surprised so this this I mean this this this whole thing went on and on yeah it's as simple as so what happened was immediately Randi sent them a list of 13 caveats of things that we that they shouldn't do and it was common-sense stuff right it was stuff like don't let the subjects work at the same time

39:38because it could distract you don't let them work with more than one object at a time because they could confuse you with those objects as to which ones you're bending and there was this whole list of different things they showed the list to me and Mike and had a good laugh about it and said this would make you guys so uncomfortable we want you to be comfortable where in reality they should have followed that list because oh one of the things Randi said was mark everything on a micro micro and a macro level so they the subjects can see the macro mark but won't realise as a micro mark on there as well which would have helped because their idea of doing a macro mark was on every fork they took the fork or spoon they measured it at both ends like the height from the table and they measured the middle of the fork from the height from the table then they put a label on it on

40:24a little string with a number on it and that was their idea of keeping track of if something had bent or not because they would measure it after we concentrated on it and they would then remeasure it again afterwards and they would say oh okay this is this has been 2 millimeter or two millimeters so we would do things like we would say this tags in my way can I take it off yeah you can take it off we put it down concentrate on it didn't do anything put it down on the table pick up another fork or a spoon say do you mind if I remove this tag take it off put it down concentrate on it nothing happens switch the tags around on the one that was on the first one - the second one the second one - the first one and then put the two Forks off to the side and then wait - three hours later pick up one of those Forks obviously not doing anything with it concentrating on it say why

41:12don't you measure and they would measure it and the measurements had now changed not realising because they never measured the other one again because they remesh it everything consistently later on and put new tags on them every single time not realizing that we just simply switched Forks or as we reached across the table we would lean on one of the forks and then ours again later we would pretend like we actually bent that fork so this went on I mean it went on for a hundred and eighty hours over four years I mean we messed with these people bad we did probably some things at the time that were probably illegal as well what like leaving the window unlocked at the laboratory going off to the club across the state line coming back like about four or five o'clock in the morning breaking into the building and bending up every single piece of metal that was in the laboratory they

41:59had a scientists were running this well this is back in the 80s oh right and they had they actually had this aquarii back in the eighties scientists were like 80s TV really but no it's true here's a sad thing right I went into this thinking these people were gonna be the enemy it was me against them well I have to do this turns out these are just really really nice nice people that are very naive when it comes to what psychic phenomena is right well if you're a scientist most likely you're not studying a whole lot of liars and mentalists and magicians and psychic phenomenon and you really are probably trying to find out whether or not it's real and maybe you believe a little bit too much you don't know enough yet when it came to this type of phenomena but you Geller was already doing that other psychics were already doing it in other countries and they

42:49will be invalidated as a genuine thing in other countries yeah we knew like geez rod over in France even north over in England you know there was a lot of research going on in England at the time on this type of phenomena as well it was a really big thing back and it was just people hosing people it was little kids like that here's weird thing right so over in England there were I can't think what the guy's name is now there was a scientist so and there are a pair of psychologists who was working with little kids and his thinking is that kids don't lie little kids don't lie that's all they do is lie they get to that point where they learn how to lie to get anything kids don't lie that's someone without kids and these kids only got caught the only reason they got caught was by accident because they were the video cameras were left on and soon as a parapsychologist

43:32left the room the kids were taking forks and spoons and actually bending them underneath their feet and then putting him back up on on the table so they would come in it was they literally scientists went in with the premise that children don't lie that is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard in my life don't disagree with you but this is how badly people wanted to believe in this phenomena well I did why do people want to believe in hidden powers I think it's why people want to believe in most things right I mean we want to find we want to believe there's something more than just us like that for most people we're just we're not enough and I don't know if it's because we get so bored without lies we get depressed with our lives we get you know we're in this everyday thing of going to work coming home and it's is this all there is is this it you know is there

44:17something else that that's a superpower that I could I could actually have is there something I can discover that's bigger than me better than me you know this is a universe much bigger than just this planet right here right so I mean if you asked me I would think that if a UFOs were coming here if they were coming here let's say I don't believe they were but if they were coming here you don't believe they were I know I died what I think if they were I just don't I I don't I think we would really have real evidence hundred-percent evidence of it by now but here's the thing right wouldn't it make much sense even like for us okay let's say we start going looking at other planets are we gonna send other humans out there or are we gonna go ahead and send robots or something like that they can last March yeah and robots are getting better and better and better there's an advanced

45:04civilization civilization surely they would also have right this advancement where they don't have to send themselves out with something to represent them right what the real hardcore believers believe those greys are yeah grey aliens the big black eyes they think there's some sort of a Android or something and it could be but I don't believe I don't believe we've had him I believed a lot more before I started doing that television show right that television show cured me of Bigfoot cured me as psychics cured me of aliens cured me of like almost everything well this is a thing with me right when I was a young kid I believed in that stuff you know when I was a young kid I spoke in tongues you know I thought I did yeah yeah I had the whole experience I mean it was like you know all the chemicals running through my body and me just doing the whole damn thing you know and

45:51I realize later what was going on there at the time I I was looking for answers I was looking for answers image it had a very disturbed life and you're probably looking for some sort of and security I got shut down every single time I would ask questions I was called a troublemaker you know oh we're talking about darkness and evil well well how come the Bible's covered in black - shut up don't ask questions you know it in black well you know the cover of most of the Bible's back then we didn't have the white Bibles we all had the black Bibles and it was just I would just ask innocent questions like okay well how could I talk about darkness being you know an evil and you're you know it's all associated why is this Bible covered in black you know and I just wanted answers I'm looking for answers I would ask these questions and I do that I I thirst knowledge I love knowledge you

46:36know I read all the time it says I'm always looking to try to understand things I won't always retain all that information but it'll be in the back of my head somewhere where it will pop out at some point when I do need it so but it's it is fascinating this desire to believe especially the desire to believe things that don't necessarily make sense whether it's ghosts or it's UFOs or do you ever watch that show Finding Bigfoot I have in the past it's not not something I sit down but every episode is like a rock got thrown the same as these ghosts yes like that every week nothing happens yet somehow they manage to keep you glued to your seat I think you watch it people watch it because they think this is gonna be the show this is gonna be the one because they tease it like that but here's the thing right now if it was the one we would have already heard about it before it

47:21got to air the key is night vision once you have night vision you seem legit you looking for things in the basement are you looking for things in the woods right if you have night vision or thermal visions like something technology they'll find it now it's like the ghost detecting meters those little meanies you can send them off just by hitting a walkie talkie oh you can oh yeah like way across the room or in another room you hit a walkie-talkie those things go freaking crazy you know is there in the main paranormal research is there like a moment where you know like in do you know that in in SETI the search for extraterrestrial intelligence there's there's this one phenomena that happened I think they call it the blip or something like that yeah I don't think that's the name I don't know there's this one it's like the event or whatever it is there's one

48:09loud noise that came from space if they think is they don't know what it is they're not sure what that was oh yeah you know what I'm conflating it with something that happened underwater that's what I'm doing there was something there's an organic noise that was underwater it wasn't the signal that's they called the bloop whatever it was yeah but there's a SETI thing like that there is a SETI thing like that - yeah but I'm I confused the two events that there was something that happened where they recorded an organic sound underwater from some sort of an animal that they don't know what it was but they think it could be a whale or something who knows just you know some could be something discovered you don't seem yeah it's a lot of stuff on it that we don't know about for sure place yeah we're talking about the desire for people I mean this is what one of the reasons why being a

48:57Mentalist works or being one of these psychic hoaxers works is because people have this overwhelming desire to believe there's something more out there and not just the powers that you and I possess the normal senses of seeing and hearing and touching and smelling and the but there's more some people have more some people know when the phone's gonna ring some people know things they have an intuition they could sense auras some people know hold my hold my hand let me look in your eyes I know things I know things you don't know it's like a creepy how you looking at me right now just weird but that's a weird thing right but that's what the ready desire yeah because it gives up why why would somebody be looking at me like that if there wasn't a purpose and believing if there wasn't something right when I perform I don't just read minds III do things like I touch their hand I mean

49:42look at me see this right there and I do certain things because it's that thing of like I've got to show a process if I'm showing a process why would I be showing a process if it wasn't real right now here's the weird you're also overwhelming them with things to think about yeah to a point I know we touching them moving them or looking at them as all these variables they have to take into account another if they're on their map of things that they're processing that's now some new territory yeah it also we talked about this earlier and we got to come with us so many stories all over the place we stopped that I'll try to come back to some of them but it's back in my comedy club days I worked the worst and the best clubs I mean there was a comedy workshop in Houston Texas don't know if you remember them all sure Paul Mansell Sharon Jerry and they had me come and do a Christmas joke so I

50:29wanted a clean show for Christmas and I came in and then they're like alright you're gonna go out on the road and you're headlining like straight off red lighting like no meddling no nose opening act nothing I went straight in a headline in which a lot of comedians hated me for that because they're working so hard again and it's like there's no from magic in a comedy club it's a comedy club but I was going out I was doing these comedy clubs but I was doing like the best and I was also doing the worst like I was doing comedy clubs where literally it's a kicker bar in a oil town and there's mesh like in blue Brothers you know across the front because people throw beer bottles at the band everything else and I'm performing behind that with a little gate that they have to come in for me to perform with these people with a big pole in the middle because people kick or dance

51:10around that and the ball is actually around the corner and I gotta try to get people in there so I performed it the worst and the best places I performed in situations where people are just not there to see the performer there you know at colleges where it's a day show and they all man they shows are the worst in colleges the worst if I've done them yeah I like you come in it's like you know they're sitting in the cafeteria you're performing the cafeteria they're trying to study for a test they're not there for you so I got to grab their attention so my first thing is to come out and say if I was to ask everyone to think of a playing card you might think ace of spades or Queen of Hearts when anyone think of a card get one get one get one get one stand up and it's like Bam Bam Bam Bam Bam Bam Bam Bam Bam it's like holy crap we need to pay attention to this guy and so

51:53that's where I came in from those harsh days really just trying to grab there same thing with comedians yeah you do bar gigs yeah yeah yeah you just gotta you got to quiet him down you got to go to grab them so anyway so I'm with the scientists we break in in the laboratory at night they have an aquarium there's another psychic there that supposedly gets ghosts to come in and the ghost will write things in these coffee grounds in this inverted aquarium with a padlock on it and there's bars that go over it Mike Edwards the other kid that's with me looks underneath and realizes that the even though it's locked on top the post that it's locked to there's nuts underneath it but like bolts he just unbolts it lifts it up we write stuff in the coffee grounds we bolt it back up and you know so I say all these things and we Bend everything we go to bed about 5:00 in the morning and Peter

52:46Phillips calls and he calls at about 7:00 in the morning he says how you doing I said I didn't sleep well last night I had a dream that we were in the laboratory you know trying to work and everything just bent and it went crazy he said well go back to sleep oh I'll talk to you in a few hours he calls me back in about another how he says you did it you did it you did it and I go what did we do he goes you know he says your psychic powers when you were sleeping bent everything in the laboratory so it was just we play these games we did these things I still alive he's still alive I've met him since then you know I feel sad they tricked him he felt loser here is it different I felt that yes oh we were talking around at one point because um we did a conference and there's a kid by the name of masa wakiki oda all right from Japan masa walk II could speak

53:30English she had a band that he was in as well so he sang English songs and everything and I'm rooming with him and I say to masa walkie keota because he's playing it up for real like you know and I say is there any time when you can't do your psychic powers you use a trick and he says oh can't speak English cannot speak English all of a sudden he couldn't speak English so with this gal was at this thing as well and the reason I mentioned Milwaukee is because there was a TV producer from England that came over and he said to her and he said Randy what would convince you that this stuff is genuine Ramey gave him the same 11 carrots that he gave to the scientist the same 11 carrots and the guy followed them he sat with me he sat with Mike he sat with Massa walk he cured up the master Walker he had away from twisting a spoon and basically he had a thing in his shoe he would go down and when

54:18nobody was looking foot in there but because this guy followed the 11 cavy it's nothing happened that day absolutely nothing happened until the cameras went off the moment the cameras went off Massa walkie twisted a spoon he started getting it to twist the producer had a complete mental breakdown now to this point I'm just thinking this is tricks right it's not it's not that big of a deal he starts screaming yelling that Randy's evil should never have listened to Randy he would have got this on tape if it wasn't for Randy and he looks down and he's got a wet spot on the front of his pants and he looks down and he says I just had a demonic ejaculation like literally and he's having his mental breakdown I go and I have to spend the night which was not a bad thing she was quite pleasant to look at his his assistant I had to spend the night with her in because randy was calling her I'm not

55:12Randy I mean Tony editors were calling her the producer was calling her consistently screaming and yelling about Randy and the skin up you can't just gloss over the fact that guy just nut it in his pants as who's yelling you just had a mess it's a mental breakdown no I didn't do it you should document that that's I shoulda said yeah that's my psychic ability working right now I mean that doesn't make any sense so he tells you in front of everybody he says it's a demonic ejaculation he straight-up says I had a mnemonic ejaculation was a producer for I think it was BBC if I'm not mistaken he's doing a documentary for them so yeah well he's crazy huh somebody finished a documentary so oh it wasn't crazy well he believed in psychic phenomena he also believed a demon made him come in his pants that is true yes shows you as to whether he believed it was a demon or not I don't know if a

56:17demon didn't Demonica jacket on your pants what do you like pull your shirt down like I think I would start dating that demon probably price to pay that you wouldn't want don't need a girlfriend don't need a woman at that point agree well that's a good-looking demon so he was saying that Randy was evil yes because if it wasn't for Randy's rules okay he would not he would have got this on tape but how dumb does a guy have to be I mean that is so silly like this is a person that's supposed to be discovering or at least investigating psychic phenomena and he doesn't understand it's not a true investigator right he's a producer he's a producer who believes in this phenomena hence he wants to do a documentary on psychic phenomena has an interest in it he already believes in it so he's not he's not as bad as the the parapsychologist who are supposed to be using proper science because I'm often

57:08asked is it right is it ethical that you full scientists in the name of science right so this becomes this whole big question like we will be unethical to do that um and my hands the debate a minute who the asked you that course a lot of scientists say there well it's a thing because you see you think that they do it's like if you ask a guy who's a thief to break in your house and then he breaks in your house in a method that with a method that you didn't anticipate is that unethical it's no different than what you're doing you're a Mentalist you're you're a person who is trying to trick them they have all these rules set up to make sure that you don't trick them so they know for a fact that what you're doing is psychic energy but if you don't really have psychic powers and you absolutely don't of course you're gonna trick them right the idea that you would

57:56trick them and that with somehow no that'd be unethical no you just played the game better than them well this was this was a point right it was this thing of like my thing was should you be taking money to investigate this phenomena under false pretenses because you're not using proper science right if you're using proper science I won't get away with any of this had you have followed by Andy's rules we would not have got away with any of this I mean we had very strict ethical rules if you ask us if we magicians we have to say yes if you ask as if we're working for the amazing Randi with him you have to say yes you know so we use all these rules those old TV shows where like if someone was an undercover cop you say are you a cop they have to tell you that's that don't really add to that that's they don't know that's only of premise they're using daily shows if you

58:40ask a cop are you a cop and they go no and then you buy the heroin off them you still go to jail Wow remember go buy heroin know anything yeah there's very few people that have told me a story where I go damn I wish I was there for that story but the nuttin in the pants and blaming it on a demon I really do wish I was there I really wish I was there for that guy I like to be in the room and I'd be like hold on the back burner nowadays would be like hold on let me get my smartphone out I had to take a picture demon and why are you showing me you're just soaked pants well how much do you have to come in your pants where it shows on the outside you know we were scared though like my kids like we were so probably towards the end 19 would have been about 1981-1982 that means I'm 21 22 somewhere in that Oh you know yeah but keep in mind I was also this kid who was very like socially

59:44like no I mean I'm the kid in the back of the classroom the heavy coat on the middle winds was that the first time a guy that ever came in his pants and then pointed to it in front of me yeah yeah well for me yes that's never can never say ever had that happen ever you know ever I'd like to go to my grave without anybody every or you have an excuse now if it ever happens to you well now like a problem is millions of people have heard this and so they'll just scam me so I'm running to people there's gonna be great everywhere you go guys are gonna pull their shirt everywhere he goes he goes to work at a coffee company be ten guys stand up with a pot boiling down with a puddle did you bring nails man I did I brought Nelson yeah maybe we might get to some of that snow if I have it I have stuff here in case so you felt bad that you tricked this dummy Mike and I really like we

60:40were scared because we realized the kind of he was unhinged not that we realized the kind of power we had over these people at that point it was just against them but it's like there's another whole thing going this is a whole psychological thing going on here because they want to believe so really really messing with people's heads I mean we're really and what's gonna happen we come out and say this is all a fraud and fakes it we sat there and we said look we want to come out and you know we want to end it now he was like you know what we got a TV show we're gonna be coming up in a couple of months let's just wait and expose it then it's not gonna make any difference so we hung out until that time I mean there was a peripheral you know scientists and there was one guy with the name of birth which Swartz I didn't want to do anything with him because he

61:22kind of came into the scene at the end of working with the Mac lab but he kept pushing and pushing and pushing and he lived in in New Jersey so finally I went out there and this guy kind of believed in everything it was it was he wrote a whole book called the attaining the pota guys containing the Poulter taming taming I mean the porter guys you can find it online as well it was a booklet and it was it was for the psycho psycho sign amic something like uh something of density and medicine but it was an actual medical journal mm-hmm and it was all about his stuff that he had done with me but this guy believed in everything like he handed me a camera one time a video camera and he said look III do a lady that could take pictures of the sky and when I get the the film and you know I get it developed and I look at it and I play it you can see UFOs in the sky that

62:15you couldn't see with the naked eye can you do that now I was one of these kids that I was just like I would say I could do anything and everything even in the laboratory I would say I could do anything and so he hands me the camera I start taking pictures of the parking lot in the sky and everything and I hand it back to him so he gets it developed when he gets to develop this his vacation footage and then there's him handing me the camera you see all of a sudden this weird kind of blob and in the blob you see a woman's torso and thigh you see a woman giving birth to a baby you see Jesus Christ you see all these images and he when he pointed them out to me I could see them as well when he actually went so like a Rorschach test that kind of things sort of yes because this guy's are 14 psychologists not right so well all I had simply done was I I didn't

63:04know what to do I was just making stuff up as I went along so I spat on the front of the camera and that blob as it changed and as it dried almost like looking at clouds you could see all these different shapes and so he believed that this was psychic phenomena this was something that was happening now I got to give the Mac lab credit because when Peter Phillips said saw it he said yeah it looks like a blob of water and and but but but Bertha said to him he said yeah but it's what's in the blob that's important it's what you see inside it that's important he called me up one day I lived in Pennsylvania then he called me up one day and said you did it you did it and I said what did I do he said well there's a jar and there was this one jar that he would have silverware and things inside and they were all sealed and he would have it sitting up on a shelf and it's 7:00

63:50o'clock every night I was supposed to concentrate and never did but I was supposed to concentrate from Pennsylvania and get this try to get the stuff to Ben long distance and he calls me out he said you know that jar you concentrated every night yep I know that jar he said you did it I'm thinking damn I'm good huh what the hell happened here he says well you actually missed it but you hit the radiator and it's leaking all over the floor so he believed every city thats how much this guy believed in all this stuff and gave me credit but when you read it here's the interesting thing right um he stuck electrodes on my head he did all kinds of psychological tests and the psychological tests turned out that if I wasn't psychic I would be crazy so his test his psychological test for me showed that if I wasn't like psychic I would be crazy but I was asked answering the questions like a psychic

64:35like a psychic would mm-hmm sober thought sports was a another character and at the very end when we came out and said this was all a fraud it was all a fake berthold was the one that said amongst a couple other people but he was a primary one that said look they say they were lying then how do we know they're not lying now which is an interesting question right but my answer because I can show you how I did those things right even the Mac lab they we had a conference in the timeline building in New York where we came clean we said it was all a hoax we got up there and if you can ever find footage of this online it's great because Randy introduces us and it's time-life building everybody's there I mean you know Discover Magazine Psychology Today you know the New York time all over the world and they think Randy's found two psychics that are genuine and we get up there and we

65:24demonstrate stuff and then Randy you know somebody asks the question you know how do you do it and Randy looks at us he says you want to answer Mike so Mike Edwards walks over he says yep he said it's a hoax it's a trick and then I say yet for the last four years we've been fooling the scientists and that's when we came out and you see their mouths open like oh my god it's like you say it's just it's great great footage when you could see it because it's that moment the scientists would not answer that phone until we spoke to them and I have the recording so that I have to have the recording with where I end up calling them back and I'm recording the conversation and I he says we've heard this rumor that you guys are working with Randy and that you're not real and I say what do you think and he says to me that can't be true it has to be real and I go well unfortunately it is true and

66:16he starts asking well how did you do this and I tell him how did you do that and I tell him and he's constantly asking about this and that trying to find one thing one thing that he could hold on to it's real and there was some little things because a lot of times when you have real information and you know you're gonna be to do something you take chances and sometimes those chances hit as well so you can't explain that that's just the odds right right yeah so he wanted desperately to believe and the thought was that maybe you had psychic powers but you didn't want people to know you had psychic powers so that you tricked them and then you were lying afterwards to conceal your power right he also mentioned that Randi may have paid us off to lie for him oh yeah well he was probably devastated right because as a scientist I'm sure he was he called a guy that I knew in Washington

67:09Pennsylvania where I lived and I think you guys still lives there now but I by the name of Joe Newsome and Joe was an escape artist and I knew Joe now keep in mind when I was doing all this I really didn't know any magicians in fact even when I started out I didn't know there was an area of magic called mentalism which is doing you know taking a five known census to create the illusion of a sixth sense you're not a psychic you're using tricks you're using psychology verbal nonverbal communication but mostly magic to create these tricks all right I knew I didn't know that I just knew there were people that con people with tricks to make them think they was psychic that's all that I knew at that time but I met a few magicians and one of them was geo news him sober thoughts caught up Joe he said why would why would Steve do this why would panacek do this and Joe says I

67:52don't know but I can open locks with my mind Joe proceeded which I thought was a really thing to do Joe proceeded to work with him for years until Berthold died and bertholle believe that Joe has psychic powers and I called Joe up one time I said why are you doing this this guy's been through enough you know we've already exposed it as a fraud as a fake you know why are you doing this to that guy and rather than answer the question he pretended that he was his brother that had answered the phone but I know Joe I knew Joe and I knew this his Grace's brother doesn't sound anything like him so it possible that some people like look some people like playing tennis some people like with people right he likes with people that's sport probably yeah probably I think I think it's a hole of a mallet doesn't kill it yeah so lets it crawl away a little bit then swats it and brings it back yeah

68:41lets it survive I mean that's probably what he was doing sometimes the mouse likes that right no I don't know it's in there I I'm just talking to my friends no I was talking my friend Tyus right so there's this thing of this is enzyme that cats have I can't think of what it talks O+ yes right not an enzyme it's a parasite parasite and that goes into some mice where they think it's okay to have fun to play with the cat more complicated than that it actually turns their sexual reward system sideways where the cat the when the cat urinates the smell of cat urine gets them excited and actually makes the the mouse aroused and it removes all fear of of the cat cat yeah because the only way that toxoplasmosis Gandhi which is the parasite can reproduce is inside the cat's gut so the cat has to eat the mouse or the rat in order for this parasite to reproduce Wow

69:38and then the reproduction the the thing is it doesn't affect the cat's behavior which is very strange but it does affect people it does affect people and does affect rats and mice yeah do you think that's why we have cat ladies oh yeah you think those crazy yeah I think you said it doesn't affect you said it doesn't affect me or do you think no it does affect Joseph it doesn't affect cats got you the cat's behavior seems to be saying the exact same but it definitely affects people it makes people more impulsive there's a bunch of weird correlations there's a recent study that showed that entrepreneurs and entrepreneurial behavior is often connected with toxoplasmosis infection Wow the people are more risk there they're more inclined to take risks and take chances it's also there's a disproportionate number of motorcycle victims of crashes that have toxoplasmosis infection really

70:30yeah this came from Robert Sapolsky work he's a professor at Stanford we had a chance to interview him fascinating guy a lot of his uh his work he's done on toxoplasmosis you think those other a lot of other things like that that we don't realize that affect human behavior there could very well be I mean there's a bunch of different parasites that people get and you know there was another guy was his name Horton's out of University of Houston Peter Hotez damnit anyway he's an infectious disease expert who special and the same television show that I work with you I met right and he said that people that live in jungle climates literally 100% percent of them 100% are infected with parasites Wow various parasites some documented some undocumented yeah yeah yeah and many of them control behavior yeah it was fascinating there's some of them that are really creepy like this one is an

71:30aquatic worm that talks a grasshopper into drowning so that it can give birth so it literally gets into the grasshoppers brain rewires it's brain tells the grasshopper to jump into the water so it can come out of its body and exist in the water it's amazing out when you think about that right how those things have developed to be able to do exactly specifically what they certain things need them to do mhm so that is something else can benefit from it is that one's name is cuz I want they get benefit what I'm trying to find out I couldn't decipher it that way I think it's Peter Hotez Cortez sorry sir is University of Houston pretty sure pretty sure anyway so yeah I mean your friend probably just like with people and you probably feel like this guy's a dummy I'm just gonna keep with these dummies have you ever said I didn't do it because I wanted to follow I know you

72:21alright I mean I did it says I thought I was doing the right thing and I didn't realize that these people are gonna become my friends I'm eating with them every day they've got these lifes you know and I care about rules and at some point I know that I'm gonna have to come out right and it's gonna be devastating for them you know she did it for years got tenure at the University he's gonna look like an idiot at the end of this and that wasn't my purpose of doing it yeah but much bigger picture yes I get it but that is what he is no no I agree and that's why I'm saying there's a much bigger picture I would do the same thing again I would just protect myself emotionally I think more than I did then so you might become friends with I would not become close friends with Ryan I wouldn't share a lot of my life with him I wouldn't want to learn about their life I'd want to keep

73:06it much more you know say you dragged it on for so long you know maybe if you just did it over a couple of days yeah no way to do that I mean we would have days where we would do nothing like we literally sat in a lab and nothing would happen for an entire commitment man that over for years yeah well here's the thing right it's a bit misleading because it's 180 hours total and what that means it's we're coming out on holidays we're coming out on weekends we're coming out all right but you're extending this project yeah for a long time and we weren't making money at it you know there was a per diem that paid for our food but that's about it yeah you were just doing it for the I lost money because I had to take time off work yeah it's I think it's what you did a good thing yeah I guess documented yeah because you showed that even scientists can be tricked if they're not

73:55really following the scientific method and that was a way to do it because there were even some Paracon psychologists who said look if you think you can infiltrate a laboratory go ahead and do it so we were doing things in accordance with what some of the pair of psychological psychologists were actually saying we should do yeah for sure like that's the whole game I mean the game is you're supposed to be they're supposed to try to find out if you're tricking them so they should be assuming you're tricking them yeah so if they're not assuming you're tricking them they're tricking themselves and that is part of the problem with psychics like I had a friend of mine on with his sidekick and they're like oh my god you knew all about my grandma I go don't you know about your grandma I go if this really knows psychic he's really knows like he has psychic power they're gonna tell you

74:38some you don't know right telling you things about your life you already know I don't need anybody to tell me about my life no that's a good thing right right that's all they're do and there's ways for them to get that info from you without you realizing when I was saying this to my friend he did not want to listen to me yeah he wanted to believe so strong and he definitely didn't want to believe they got tricked this is part of the problem with scammers you ever seen some of those scammers those Nigerian scammers to get these poor lonely million to think that women are waiting for them in Europe there was a terrible television show I mean terrible in that it was so sad this one guy flew to Europe twice to be with this woman and every time he flew there she had something come up and she meet him it was devastating she couldn't meet him and he kept going back and his daughter

75:23was saying I can't convince him that this is a scam he really believes this woman's waiting for him he's never heard this woman's voice she says she can't talk on the phone but she sends pictures and he really believes strong said no it's really sad that's why I find like you know and like Penn Jillette gave me one of the biggest compliments partly that I've ever had actually at one point he'd see me work and his wife had seen me work Emily you'd see me work and Emily came and she said yeah Penn said that if we didn't know you were not psychic from that demonstration from watching your show you are the most convincing psychic we've ever seen well I said that Johnson yes sir the same thing to duncan when you did that performance for us on television like that is the crazy if you weren't so adamant that what you were doing was a trick right and Duncan was like dude

76:15what if he's with man really is psychic oh my god Duncan it tends to you know he he has a thirst for the fantastic yeah so for him which is nice that I think is that you can play off that though it's a good thing now yeah that's a yeah I am I as a show put that exact reason the show I'm doing in Rochester is called telepathy and the first half usually it's gonna be I don't actually have to ask but normally I do know one it's a two-hour show but I've had to cut it down to an hour show and the first half was always me coming out talking about telepathy what is telepathy what did Einstein he believed it was radio waves Marie Curie believed that it was he was wrong yeah he even wrote the foreword to a book called telepathy so yeah yeah he believed it was a real thing he believed you mind gave up radio waves that other people actually picked up Sigmund Freud

77:07believed it was related to a dream state you know there was all these different third there I mean the word was coined in I think it was 1842 by Frederik Meijer and he believes certain things about telepathy so there was all these different things Sir Arthur Conan Doyle who wrote Sherlock Holmes you know most rational character in literature he believed that was spirits all around us it could pluck a thought out of one person's mind and actually put it in another so he believed all prognostication all these things had to do it had to do with spiritualism so there's all these people I mean the US government you know about Stargate they gave what twenty million dollars in the 70s going on into the 90s to study and find out if this stuff had any practical military applications on these type of things so remote viewing and tell yeah well that's where remote

77:50viewing came out that was another thing Stargate that cured me of that television show that's right you did try that you did that I think you actually did that would uh was DJ Grothe on there yes oh yeah yeah yeah I think he was part of that DJ yeah yeah me and DJ both did better just faking it that's great that could be the tower this is it's a man but looks like a tower all right there was the one guy that's famous for remote viewing and I interviewed him as well what is his name yeah you say he's dead don't know it all the time there for hours and hours and hours yeah I was like with me yeah and he was explaining how he worked for the US government how they found Osama bin Laden doesn't work fun guy yeah telling me about his hot russian girlfriend I was like all right tell me more about that let's go that direction can i remote viewer can you put it in my head right

78:54now could I see where oh she's in the bathtub so anyway since that time I've gone after many different things peter Popoff the Evangelist said he was getting the Word of God where Andy came to Houston in 1986 a guy that had the earpiece in yeah I found the apiece oh you found those me yeah Randy was writing an article I think was hustler magazine it was one of those maggots Angeles say it was a good place to hide something it was one of those readings it may not have been hot so I don't want you to quote that's one Sam I didn't penthouse but I don't think it plays why do I think it was hustler but I could be wrong boys one of the ones that people actually read because the girls never take their panties off so you get bored just looking they do now though didn't they go back to well they don't right no they were they went after they did not yeah sure amazing willpower so they went

79:55to like bikinis or underwear they stopped taking their clothes off but then sales inexplicably tanked but what's so strange those articles yeah great they did they did interviews they had a lot of groundbreaking on yes to through the years how do you mind had a book of all the different playboy interviews over the years I have some good stuff yeah so Brandi yeah yeah writing for an evangelist he said hey do you want to come see this evangelist with me Emily yeah sure : so went there and there's about 10,000 be was downtown big auditorium he was a huge auditorium you know all these people sitting around and Popoff comes out on stage she starts saying he's getting the Word of God he's telling people all their names information maybe that doctors are what their ailments are and he's he starts healing people of cancer he starts healing people of blindness people

80:49walking again and it was really really emotionally from me I tears in my eyes but I knew it was all but I had to do it was he's telling it you get this whole like like when you see a little kid crying and running down the aisle you maguet angry but at the same time it's like it's just so emotional it's just though you get caught up in this whole thing is you just do so he asked for people to collect money he's just asking random people to come up grab a bucket go collect money I got down there I mean I was like the fifteenth bucket I got my bucket I walk around I get checks I got probably it up I don't know how much ten grand 20 grand I don't know you know what I've got I mean money for us the more getting money then you gotta think I'm done he said nope yeah okay once you got to go back out and collect checks and now we're going out getting checks

81:33in the bucket well huh then it's like go out get sealed offerings and people are dropping Lopes in there with like watches rings and stuff like that as I come back I hand the bucket up to pop off and I look up and I noticed that he's got a piece of plastic in his ear I go back to Randy and I say Randy I said look either this man of God God doesn't like him enough to heal him and he's got a hearing aid or something else is going on I don't know what but something else is going on and I think that's how he's getting information and Randy was like no he's using mnemonics mnemonics uh basically memory systems all right are you I have to use a lot of mnemonics to memorize things because otherwise I have major issues and I know a lot about mnemonics you either memorize a lot about things about a few things oh you memorize a few things about a lot of things but you don't memorize a lot

82:18of things about a lot of things and he was memorizing a lot of things about a lot of things if that was the case I said I don't think so so they went out to the next pet pop off the congregation thing which was in San Francisco got a friend of ours from I like Jason I think his name is from who's an electronics engineer and that was everything about electronics he brought this little scanner and dressed up as a security guard hanging out in the back and he was scared to death he was gonna get called nobody questioned him he's there in a security outfit and he scans all the frequencies ahead of time and he blocks out every one of those frequencies that are known frequencies the moment Popoff hits the stage a brand-new frequency pops up hmm and turns out I think it was a thirty-seven point I can tell you in just a second here it was yeah was that the frequency that he was on was yeah I

83:11thought it was right yeah thirty nine point seven megahertz that's what God broadcasts on and it sounds an awful lot like Peter Popoff's wife so what we did was we taped all this and went to the Johnny Carson show this is how long ago that was now on this night show Johnny Carson Randi takes it on The Tonight Show and keep in mind that Popoff would tape every single one of his shows and sort of edited real time as well you put him on television yeah it would put them all on television the same you know times I mean they were they had a monthly budget I think it was like five hundred and fifty thousand dollars every single month you know yeah that was a working budget that that's not the money that we actually make it so God knows how so that's how much they were spend X how much they was spending yeah yeah yeah yeah so now what a dirty business yeah it's so dirty it's so dirty to just

83:59lie to people like that I would make a great evangelist if I wasn't ethical yeah there are times like oh god yeah but I just couldn't do it I couldn't do it so on this a night show they play they play the footage that they have from his TV show they play all that and then they play oh and this was a one time that Johnny always wanted to know everything that was gonna happen like she didn't want any surprises but his staff said no you want to be surprised by this trust us so sure enough they play that footage and then they play the footage with pawpaws wife and she's saying things like PD the first thing she says PD nod your head if you can hear me because if you don't we're gonna have trouble tonight he nods his head as he's talking you know doing this whole event angelical thing um and then she starts saying ha there's a live one up in the back she's got cancer in her breasts

84:46make her run up and down the aisle and shake those breasts you know it's just always like me and there's a lot of nasty stuff some of that stuff we couldn't play on this night show but we showed enough and so just a disdain a mocking of these people really yes she actually had breast cancer and she's telling oh yeah these people do these it's real ailments at all these people well almost really and so I'll get to that in a second because we sent some Stooges in and so yeah just nasty nasty stuff but anyway the stuff we showed him the Tonight Show Johnny sits there and he never even didn't like to edit his shows either but he had to edit this because a moment that came on Johnny's like oh and you couldn't say on TV back then and so we had to edit that out at that point and he says like do they know about this and like nope they do now and at first pop off try to

85:32say that we we we hired actors to be his wife and then when it was obvious that we didn't he then came out and says I thought everybody knew that I used that to enhance the Word of God and it took a long time for him to go on it here's here's a crappy thing about this right when I was there he's doing stuff like telling people to throw their medications up onstage you don't need them God's gonna take care you don't imagine somebody throws up some digitalis pills or something they really truly need and thank God's gonna heal them so people do die from these things and he was using a lot of other tricks like oh and part of the way he was getting the information was this right so people fill out prayer cards ahead of time and they put them in these boxes in the back of the room when nobody's really paying attention the boxes get switched out so all those prayer cards with all this

86:19information goes backstage to the wife and she's able to send that information to him another thing she would come out on stairs she would come out people come these things two hours and I was ahead of time like literally and they leave the hospital on carts and everything else and she wouldn't walk now she's a hi mrs. Popoff I hope my husband gets to you tonight you know where you from oh that's nice what's wrong there oh I'm so well I'll pray for you and she gets all this information again she'd go back she had a big tape recorder in her purse and she would write that information down another one was what I call like the Kathryn Kuhlman trick and Katherine Coleman was an evangelist way way back who had all these great great little like scam trick things and what they do is they wait for somebody to come walking in with a king and they can walk but not well and they're using a cane

87:01and they walk up to them and say you know what wouldn't you be much more comfortable in a wheelchair and we put you up right up front you'll be right next to the Reverend who's gonna say no to that so they get pushed up in the wheelchair and I was there pushing along they said well you're from who's your doctor you know what's wrong with getting all this information go back out write the information down and giving mrs. Popoff so the wheelchair sitting there Reverend comes out at some point he can look at that person he and he says her name and he says we've never talked before we've never met before have we because they haven't it was the show that was pushing him down without that info he says you know God says you can be healed now God said I'm getting from God that you can't walk is that right and the guys sitting there he's thinking this is a man of God

87:40right so I'm not contradicting him and he must mean never be had a walk probably again that's what he say he's saying that my doctor says I can never walk properly again so he doesn't contradict him he says I say you can God says you can stand up the man stands up well that's your first miracle because everybody else their perception is this guy is in that wheelchair cannot walk he says take a few steps God takes a few steps he got that beat as well right so now you've got the emotion going even more because here's a man that couldn't even walk he stood and now he walked Popoff then goes and gets in the wheelchair and sits in it he says walk to the back of the wheelchair hobbles to the rack in wheelchair he says push me and the guy pushes him real miracle right but think about it that wheelchair is now acting like a freaking walker you know and then the great

88:28climax of the whole piece of this trick is he takes the wheelchair puts it back where it is and he says to him now that's your wheelchair meaning you're like if you got up right now I walked across the room I say Joe that's your chair you'd say yes well it actually is your chair you own it but I mean in normal circumstances I say you were in my studio you'd go yes doesn't mean it's your chair it just means it's where you're sitting in that mall right so the person sits down and you've seen this pole miracles he's got all these tricks like that the old trick of one legs longer than the other and you make them both the same size and also people get caught up in the moment they're on television they want it to be real and they get I think that's an emotion that's a lot of things um but I don't think so in this case I think this is more of a religious thing that people

89:08truly believe and when you have it's like when I was talking tongues when I was young you know I've got all this don't mean I got all this adrenaline flowing through my body boy you get caught up in it it's like when I was watching it you know I'm getting caught up I'm having all this reaction in my body despite the fact I know it's all I'm still having this this entire reaction you know it's it's you know mediums I to me the worst scum out there right now are the mediums and why do I say that because they're taking advantage of a person in a vulnerable moment in their life and they're doing it for that one game they're also doing it for money and a lot of people will say well they're making them feel good you know what I can give crack to a junkie doesn't mean it's good for him right the grieving process is a natural part of the the state that you have to

89:49go through to stay with the living we had a very good friend whose son died of cancer 10 years old died of cancer she understand he has this huge gaping hole right this huge gaping hole which she's just feeling sad she's upset she needs to fill it with something normally you turn to your family for those things but she met she met a a medium who convinced that she could talk to her dead son so she stopped talking to her two living daughters she stopped talking to her husband she started talking to the meat even talking to her dead son almost ended up with a divorce almost lost her entire life as a result and this happens all the time and it is so so sad dirty people very dirty people got a Long Island medium Theresa Caputo yeah and the worst part is the networks that edit the stuff to make it look even better they don't give a they're just trying to make money they just try

90:39to make money that so they don't care about this I mean they somehow another feel like they're not a part of the scam I mean they're literally committing fraud they are don't know I agree they're they're perpetrating the fraud well the network's not involved with it is as a production company the production company is bringing to the network but the network should know the process knows what's going on they know it's but it's like you know what's gonna get some ratings it's gonna do this let's promote it let's push it you know that set that's on sci-fi on the network they didn't want me just debunking everything no and I had to tell them I said the problem is everything's yeah it's not that I'm trying to debunk everything we're just really looking at it yeah everything's well it's why in my show I started to go on this a little bit ago that show till

91:24apathy where I talk about telepathy and what it is and everything else but as I'm doing it I'm performing and there's a part in that show where I feel really really dirty and I feel really really bad but I feel like I have to do it and I actually talked some people's dead relatives in that show and it's like the most despicable horrible thing and it makes me want to cry every time I do it but it's because in the second half of the show I go what is telepathy well I think I know what it is I think it's a subset of magic I think it's a form of entertainment and a very cruel form of entertainment I know I played with emotions of you many of you here this evening but how else can I convince you on an emotional level on a logical level that is because here's the thing right it's like your friend they've had this one experience that's an emotional experience meeting the

92:13psychic and a psychic telling them if you tell them hey well I got this friend banachek they could do that same thing for you he's gonna yeah yeah yeah but this is you know or if I do it's a banacek's a real sci-fi trans to me yeah and then I do it and he goes wow that guy's real then now you say it's now they'll think a little bit and go well you know what I had that same emotional experience I had that same feeling maybe maybe I'll look at it my job I feel is never to break down a person's belief systems you know you can believe whatever you want you know that's fine as long as you're not hurting anybody else I'm kind of sort of okay with it but the big thing is the problem that I have is with the people that have taken advantage of those people's beliefs your honor it's always wolf in sheep's clothing go down these side streets and there's these houses there's little houses that

92:57are psychic houses yet people live in them and some of them like you look at those houses they're like freaking like beautiful yeah they look like these people must be making money like huge money somehow unless they're laundering money or something on the side as well well I mean there's enough people that believe and unfortunately they're good at it they just hustle people and yes it's a weird legal scam I mean - in order to like the government's constantly shutting down cults and all sorts of things that are not legit that they find to be dangerous right but they somehow another allow people like someone we got arrested recently for scamming someone out of hundreds of thousands of dollars and it was the same sort of a thing she was a psychic and she was saying that she needed all this money for right for some you know about Ralph Raines right no so he was like hehe I think he

93:48like he was like a multi like millions and millions of dollars and there was a long scam that went on for a long time I think it was where was it I think ever no no somewhere I don't know where but anyway Ralph Raines he was a basically grew trees and replanted trees and sold trees I mean he made millions millions off this so there was this lady he got scammed for five point five million dollars over the over a course of a long period of time but it all started out with he met this lady in a psychic bookstore she gave him a bit of a reading and through the reading she found out that his dad wasn't well and she said that she had taken care of her dad through hospice and everything but she had actually done it herself she ended up moving in with him she ended up getting him because she was doing readings convinced him he would she was psychic she ended up getting him buying

94:37him like a nine hundred and fifty thousand dollar home which with all these investments she ended up taking over all of his finances she moved in with him romantically no no this is the weird part right so she didn't she was brewed in it's the caretaker for that for the father oh but in the process of all this she's getting she's now taking over his finances she's convincing him that they're going bankrupt they got to pay the taxes that tax money is getting funneled through her gets deeper than this one day he's at the bus station there's this blond hair a beautiful girl with an English accent that comes on over and she starts giving him a reading and he ends up marrying or thinks he actually marries this girl at some point turns out this girl is the daughter of the other woman her name is Portia and what did they call their kid they called their kid Oh

95:26Giorgio Armani no no no here's the thing right they had a kid together he thought he had a kid with her turns out the kid was a cousin's baby that she brought in the house and acted like she had the baby no no you can look us all up online it's all I like being well she used the baby bump thing and and then she acted like she had a second kid but she lost that child and everything else and the only way they got caught is because the boyfriend of I think the mother I think it was went out in the same day and bought these these cars for like a million but blocks almost close to that you know that he just went out and spent the money so the US government started coming and say wait what's going on here how's this going down and it all came to light of heaviness yeah yeah bra frames so you want to believe you know they just want to believe and it's a strange thing I wonder what that is do

96:18you think that that's some sort of there's some sort of an evolutionary aspect to thought where like to find things that are hidden or secrets is a part of our thirst for innovation or a thirst to invent things or to figure out problems or to not be deceived I think it's part of survival right you're always looking for that next evolution what what's gonna work and if we could read minds that would really help us in our life right right it would say was a lot of pain if I know that she's really cheating on me you know she's lying to me or he's lying to me or but it's like it's not just us I can get it done it's like ghosts and all the other stuff too it all seems connected yes but it is that almost evolution sorry to say I think we always strive to better ourselves yeah to get that kind of knowledge and if there's a possibility there's an afterlife why

97:09what does that really mean for me as a human being sort of the evolutionary scale now I'm just thinking about things that I do in a very different manner right it's also like this weird desire that people have to know things that are hidden yes that's what survival though that's the conspiracies yeah right I mean that is part of survival it's like hey I wonder what's behind that cave right there oh I wonder what's over the top of that mountain are there any animals over there that I can hunt in that field you know what's over there where's a better place to fish right now where's the better place to hunt and it's all about survival I think I think really on some level it's a really screwed up thing that's in our pattern that helps us sort of survive you know you talk about people wanting to believe things you know there was a guy there's a Russian psychic efj Frankel I think his name was

97:55there imagine this Jill so you're a conductor on a train right and you're going down some tracks with your train and you see a guy in a white suit just looking at the side looking down towards you coming down the tracks puts down a briefcase steps right in front of the Train stares at the Train puts his hand up in sort of a stop motion but you can't stop see you hit him you knock him you kill the guys and a million pieces or whatever happened to him an actual real guy they open up the briefcase and inside there's a letter it says I stopped a bicycle I stopped the car I stopped a streetcar and now I'm gonna do the ultimate thing I'm gonna stop a train this was a psychic who believed he had powers now my thinking on this I'm going first of all I'm going here he probably stepped in front of a bicycle and of course it stopped the person put the brakes on you know he stood in front

98:42of a car and it also stopped of course and the streetcar he just got lucky with the train was a huge mistake they say it can't stop in time but this guy really truly believed he had these abilities and then I get really really cynical and I start thinking cuz I think about my ex-wife and itself and crazy stuff and I go I go yeah maybe he had an ex-wife maybe even done next wife but a wife who said to him hey you know Franklin I bet you can stop a bicycle hire some guy next door to take a bike you know and stop like that I bet you can stop a car same guy in the car you know stops turns on the brake you know he happens also to be the street car driver as well you know so he stops and everything else she says you know what you really have these powers you should step in front of train and try to stop Jesus cell but that's just me being cynical so yeah

99:27well it's a good way to think especially when you've pulled off what you've pulled off and seeing what you've seen yeah yeah you should have a show where you bust these mediums we have a show right now but it's not really here's the introduce ed right networks don't want a debunking show yeah because that kills all their other shows yeah we had a show years ago where we came out and said it was all an illusion but they called it magical miracle and gala was on that show and they had tape blowing Geller out of the water basically Geller saying stuff that he denied he said later on but they had the tape of it and they could have shown that but they wanted to keep that thing of magic or miracle and it was Geller a fraud did geralt Geller trick me I don't care for how you say this because he loves to sue people okay um but he started to tell people right now that

100:15he's the world's greatest magician but he's got to be careful with that because he sued people who said that he was a magician everything else it is my opinion from everything that I've seen and the times that I've watched him that he is cheating and he is using tricks and I know for a fact he uses some of my methods now as well I also know when I was working on the show phenomenon um the first time I told this story ever so on the I worked on a TV show comin up phenomena it was finding the next year Yeller Criss Angel was on that show as well and they were the judges on the show and Geller calls me out of the blue which was really unexpected because I've always been on the other side of the fence of gala you know with Randy and The Skeptical movement in that and he calls me up and he says hey check you know how you doing I said I'm doing good he says well you know you're known as

101:10the guy that creates this stuff you know every mentalists working today is using a couple of your effects that you've created um and he says you know I only have like four or five powers that I've had through the years and if anybody could come up with a new psychic ability for me it would be you hmm and I went wow how ballsy is that all right he's calling sort of like one of his whole thing to your folks she's hoping no he's hoping I can create a new trick for him that he can tell the Wold is psychic right but he's also must be hoping that you're not gonna expose him well this is the great thing right like even right now when I'm saying this this is when you hang up you know I go why would he do that I thought well it was just a phone call between me and him he knows I wasn't expecting it so I'm not recording him it's my word against his word and he could say that I misunderstood that

101:58maybe he wanted me to me to come up with an idea of something for him to use his psychic powers so there's many ways he could spin it when we worked with Criss Angel Chris on one of his episodes had Gellar on there and Chris put a spoon on the table and he said you know can you can you bend that and Yuri said no he said well why not he said well my abilities aren't working writing so so if you bent it right now it would be a trick right and ER he said well I can't bend it right now he said well if you did bend it would be a trick right and yellow says well yeah if I bent it right now it would be a trick and Chris is like got him I got him you know and when he walked her said you don't have him he said well what do you mean he just said it was a trick I said no he never said it was a trick he said if he had to do it in that moment it would be a trick because his psychic abilities weren't

102:41working he never says he knows how to do it as a trick he just said it would have to be a trick sure enough I walked up together later on he says you know I didn't say that I used tricks right I go yeah I know you know he's clever he's like very very clever very very slick so and I you know I think he's harm science and took it back and it was one of these things I think why we had to do what we had to do at the time because science was going in this very weird pseudo science direction I mean that was back in the days when you had old pyramids that would basically put a razor blade supposedly and it was sharpness you had all the period meant but how and yeah yeah I don't remember that stuff put things into pyramids to sharpen them yeah yeah I didn't didn't work baby would just say so it's all pseudoscience but it was all this you know people wearing tinfoil

103:26hats and yeah it's just you know the whole thing went on and on and on and on it was a list of just whatever happen to pop off pop off from he disappeared oh he's back on every night now you can find him on every night now the difference is this right so he was one of the first ones to send out you've probably seen them he would send out these letters look like they were handwritten it's obvious now we look at we know it's not handwritten you know they're printed but back then you people weren't aware that and it looks like it's handwritten and personal to you and I would get because I just signed up when I was at Wed there that day I would get an outline of a foot wear this in your shoe and you know wrap it up with $20 $50 $100 whatever you put in you'll get 10 fold back hey you know you got this little piece of water and it came from Bethlehem and you

104:15know wear that around your neck and then wrap it up with money and send that send that back so he was making most of his money not at the the events he was making it on the mailings that's where they were making really making all their money took a few years for him to disappear like about 3 4 years to him disappear and not so much after this night show yeah yeah and then he came back but the difference is now he's not using any of those tricks it's more of a thing that he's on the air and he's going somebody out there has a headache right now and I'm gonna help kill you of your migraines and you don't have to if you just on television yeah you don't have to do anything right you just at the point there's a heart attack right now and Jesus gonna stop it just stop that heart attack that's right guys leader Pepsi yeah so that's that's what he's doing now which is um I don't know

105:12I just I don't think any it should be tax exempt or anything like that oh that's what's terrifying what's terrifying is that the tax exempt and obviously a fraud like how is the government so lacks in that I don't know I I don't know you know it's even this whole thing of like um not-for-profit organizations right I mean you know they most of them are just frauds they're fakes that's for us I think you should have to prove that a certain percentage is actually going to the cause the problem a 5% when it and you can only have X amount of employees at rest and volunteers and the employees can get paid a lot of money they should nonprofit should share will be certain amount of poise maybe the president this and this they can only make X amount of dollars in a nonprofit organization they can't make more than that all you lose your nonprofit status because you're

105:55self-sufficient at that point yeah no I agree with you totally it's just very disturbing to me that I mean look Scientology and one they became nonprofit I mean they are or rather they became related tax-exempt because they're what I had so much money they had a religion every members money was pulled to be able to sue anybody to the point to where you couldn't win right well they were suing so many people that the IRS just gave in right yeah I mean it's really fascinating fascinating how they did that they actually fought the IRS and won right but they got that money from the people mm-hmm it's an incredible story really it's just it's incredible that it's so obvious I mean when you got a mean there's there's religions right that we don't know the origin of I mean we really don't know who was the original writer of this scroll exactly like that find in Qumran we don't know

106:50who wrote it is too long ago right but with l ron Hubbard they got video you know they know the guy you got video the guy saying hey if you want to make a lot of money yeah start a religious not a religion yeah and he did and and yeah how are they when he had the captain's outfit on with ribbons he gave himself and medals like well you know that's that's yeah there's a father where this stuff is so dangerous it's just so so dangerous in the wrong hands you recognize that it's dangerous cuz you understand how easy people are to be manipulative been studying this your whole life and you and you you know in a form of it you do a show what I really genuinely appreciate is the way you and the way pen really go out of their way to say that this is a trick this is we're bullshitting you I'm not showing you spooky I got and a lot of trouble for that in my early days of

107:37performing mind reading mentalism the moment that I came out and I would say to Pecos to me I think when you come out and you tell people it's not real and you can still do it and they want to tell you that has to be real right that means something right that's that's impressive to me I think that's really impressive there are a lot of performers who are not good performance they start out not as good performance and they need the people to believe in them in order to get away with the trickery right and they never lose that they always want people to believe it's a trickery and what so when I started coming out and I started saying hey it's magic it's variable it's nonverbal communication it's all this stuff mixed together to create a show I'm not a psychic there is absolutely nothing psychic about what I there were quite a few mentalists in the mentalism field back then there wasn't

108:20as many as there are now who were upset with me Duncan said if you were a psychic man the best way to hide it is say you're not a side right right yeah no that's would be true except that's not the case what's up with the nails cuz we're two hours in here tell me what's up with these nails take a nail okay so this is what I want you to do just you're gonna have to describe what's happening okay so this is one of the very first things I started doing Joe is this like the nail holding a nail and I want you to watch what happens okay I'm watching what happens oh my god you're bending it this is incredible you're been as you can see the nail is actually slowly slowly bending out ranges how are you shaking your hand - yeah I'm showing your powers and the thing about that take a look at it's not a trick nail it's nothing like that I mean everything I use from silverware to

109:09Forks to anything that I really actually like this and now that's it's uh ya know but I was I was at the fair I was at the very end right there like that huh I can't I can't do that so another one maybe yeah i'ma say yeah let's keep got some Forks yeah I got some Forks so I want you I want you to point to a fork anyone this one you want it or you want me to have that one I'll take that one you'll take it all right so so you've heard of people we've talked about people actually bending silhouette right don't have that one oh you can't yeah I don't know that's all I want I'll give me that for the time this I know what are you doing give me that fork yeah you got a fork that's a for no you can have that for Joe let's take you a fork watch Joe trying to get this floor out Ben you're not watching yeah this was you for incredible trying to get this to bend what kind of techniques are you using

110:12sir these are tell me Forks well we're gonna eat with these problems those are actually 100% genuine Forks um but you can't tell me how you're doing it it's sleight of hand that's as much as I can tell you okay let me do it do it again so I'll watch some more time you want to watch one more yeah okay like a fake fork it's easy if I was sitting working I'll show you it's actually no it's easier if I'm sitting with you so let's do here people can tell yep so what's this one ready here we go what's right okay so I'm gonna shake it like that right you know what let's do it this way can you it's a wave can I move this yeah so hold both hands out like this okay and I'm just gonna I'm gonna hold it right there I want you to hold that in and hold that inframan we have to hold this end as well okay right then I'm gonna hold it right in right there okay you're rubbing it watch oh you're

111:12heating it up wait wait don't force it don't force it just hold it okay can you feel that yeah because it's a different kind of metal no it's not yeah you're using some sort of fake metal and now it's hard again right because you're heating it up right is that what it is no no what I'm gonna actually get this one to break hmm but now chill Wow right because it's some ass metal I promise you it's not I have DVDs out that teach magicians how to do this the course you gotta be a magician know where to get it and it uses any fork anywhere anytime I promise you but I got mine to bend now bending it see if this way if they were made out of special metal I would never let you keep them because it would be too expensive but this one's gonna twist all the way around and that that one's not made a special metal that's regular metal oh no and I got a concentrate Joe

112:12dude are you psychic for real what kind of wizardry is that sir he spun this around and turn it to a knot the thing is he's not gonna tell you how he does it that's the real problem no you tell me that it's but you won't tell me how you're doing this it's well you know what there's different techniques that's the thing right I mean it and and I really hope you can come see a show so I would look I do things like I am one person another person feels it I tell people donate like name a number you know any number at all okay go ahead 13 okay and that would be a common number for a lot of people to choose sure you know there are specific words if I said to you think of a number any word with seven letters or less go ahead okay can't of course most people would just most people got a common word no that's not a common word I'd know most people to choose in love or how

113:06long those lines you know a dog or cat of really grown ones but but the interesting thing okay okay so inside this wallet did you give up on the word because I there was no no no yet inside this wallet I put it in see I was driving you rodent well I was driving a lair oh no right right and someone caught you off and you know what doodling isn't doing it are you kind of scribble without even looking mm-hmm and as you notice inside the hair you open it up tell me what's on there so you know I don't want to touch it was it's a yeah it's my handwriting and doodling this is a 13 in Wow hmm it's such bad handwriting that I got I think that you wrote that underneath the tape it's definitely a 13 right mhm and yeah yeah wrote on the table while we're doing this how would I know if it said the wallet cuz you shoved it in there oh let's try this what's that one all right

114:10we'll try this I can't promise I'm gonna be able to do okay you know what I got both of you in here let's do this okay just got a bunch of cards on Sega cards all right that is great so we have 13 and country on the piece of paper I'll watch your hands closer yeah I'm a friend of cards out Joe okay I'm not I am it's what up I'm gonna find it I'm not good at Fanning cuz I'm not a magician right I'm gonna show you the cards we met you a magician I'm a Mentalist no watch I'm gonna fan the cards out I want you to think of any cards you see any card I say you get one okay you see it yes did you get a red card excuse me did you get a red card yes good you got a red card I'm gonna do same with you across the table I want you to think of any call to get a black card okay do you get one all right I'm gonna ask one question because I have to ask questions sometimes to try

115:00to figure out exactly what it is you're thinking okay did either one of you choose a high card yes no okay high cards are hard for me to get but I will try all right look at me don't-don't-don't so you got a red card I'm gonna say your card is pretty hearts your card over there Jamie it's black yes probably spades 2 2 of spades yes hearts king of hearts yeah yeah well let me see that deck of cards I only had three choices yeah I had Queen of Spades an 8 of spades in a 2 of spades and I switched from the queen of space before you ask that question higher low I went like you went low mine you thought I was gonna go high there's a lot of these kind of things it's verbal nonverbal it's magic psychology is a mixture of all kinds of different things twisted up a spoon it's on that shouldn't yeah I did that I definitely want you to come we go into the Magic Castle tonight by the way are

116:08you yeah you're welcome to come it was a comedy store oh yeah yeah yeah I'm working what time you work in there rather come and see you so I'm not working you know no scrubs no Steve is an actor no I don't really graves I'm crossing Jordan and stuff like that and he's got an interesting story about his life and it's not the psychological thing as well which I'm always fascinated with of where he was informing magic for years constantly performing magic and he wouldn't be an actor and the magic was kind of a side thing for him but it started getting away he'd go on interviews and stuff and they say you know I want you that guy that does kid shows I want you to do a party for me and so forth and he could never get the part so he started denying that he was a magician I just totally left magic completely people say yeah I got your business card no that's not me it was a

116:57middle one that's when he started to be able to act and he started getting the acting jobs and everything it wasn't till years later that he could go back and be a performer Wow and it's a really interesting story but he does it with magic and teaching and things and yeah magic table in Hermosa no no I never have no yeah it's interesting because he mixes comedy and magic together yeah I'll have like a magician on show with me yeah that was a few of those back in the days that I worked where it was comedy magic club type things so yeah so good nights do you ever teach this stuff I teach to other magicians I have some have to be like I have videos just if I have books so I definitely do teach but I don't teach one-on-one I never teach you I just don't have time to teach you what I want I'm always so busy working and you teach like this stuff like how do you do these things the metalbending

117:45I have DVDs out on that they teach magicians how to do that yeah yeah yeah yeah and I promise you they are not trick forks those heard and not trick nails not trick forks they are yeah well just the fact that you could spin a regular fork right this it sort of became the holy grail for me when I can tell you how that came about for me there was muscle wall Quijote I told you that he could actually put it under a chair and he would put it in something and twist it mm-hmm I was doing an article for the National Enquirer I don't even think I could do that with just my hands and that's what's confused and the guy shows up you yeah there was a way and the guy shows up photographer shows up for me and he said I want you to bend some silverware so you know I go to him you know and I go okay all right I'm gonna bend something so I take one and I go like this and next thing you

118:32know it's bending up like that and then I do another Bend for him he says this is gonna take a while isn't it I go yeah you know he says just bend them up with your hands I go well that's cheating which exactly what I was doing you know so I say these that's cheating so he says now go ahead so I just start bending off like crazy crazy and next thing you know I had a twist and I remembered exactly how I got that twist so I called Randy up on the phone because it was sort of the Holy Grail thing looking for a way to actually do it and I went in there I had one of those telephones had the long cord you know all the way into the bathroom and I / ante up and I'm whispering and say hey I just been a forward you know with my hands you know it's put a twist in it he goes yeah so what no no and I explained exactly how to do it and now all the Mentalist use that technique yeah so

119:15this was a regular fork yes and you twisted that right in front of my face with one hand yep hmm oh how the you did it you're not supposed to know he's supposed to enjoy the mystery Joe well I'm trying know that you can be fooled I'm it's very confusing that I could be fooled so easily because this is a real fork I know that there's certain Forks that they make out a shitty metal it's like and you heat it up and it becomes like super bendy yeah that's something that's the I don't want to get too much into methods and so forth but that's definitely not something I use or would use and yeah and that looks just a little weird Joe that's what yeah but I'm trying to get a denomination may or may not do it the thing about was weird is it how easy that fork bent when I bend it when you had it it was very strange the one that bent real easy when I bend it and he

120:05said are you doing it on your own it was so easy to bend right like why would why was it so easy to bend and I can't tell you why at that moment mm-hmm but if you look now that's that fork right there and take a look at it and see if it's easy to bend now you'll see that it's not but it's because at that moment that's the one that I was gonna break I wanted to break that one it's very confused now it's a job well it's amazing really because it you let people actually touch the things and someone like me who knows that you're doing a trick because you told me that you're doing a trick and yet I still can't figure out how the when you see me work you'll see I throw everything across the stage and a lot of stuff I just leave from people afterwards because I want them to interact with those things I want them to take them home yeah yeah no I could imagine

120:49especially the forks yeah after a while you know that's just you just sat I mean you just sit and look at this fork afterwards you're like okay I don't think I could do that yeah I mean if I just gave you a regular fork Jamie you think you do that spin that I don't think I could twist that thing like that remember we talking about the TV show I'm gonna talk about the TV show earlier there is I have a pitch that's out right now for a seer which it looks like you may be going somewhere and so I don't say too much about it but it's bringing back the million dollar challenge and it's going out to James yeah James Randi million dollar challenge it needs to go out looking for psychics testing them under proper controls if they're trying to trick us maybe I'll expose their methods I will demonstrate my abilities supposedly to do the exact same thing under certain conditions as well and

121:39it's sort of what makes me the expert to go out and try to find these things and see what's really growing on it sort of brain games Meech meets the bunking meets psychic phenomena but not every single one's gonna be debunking either it's only gonna be really debunking when somebody is purposefully going out and trying to somebody and trying to fool people won't take it advantage of people it's very baffling stuff the I mean the the stuff about talking to people and and ask them questions and reading their cues that kind of makes sense but this doesn't make sense at all the fork stuff just is not me yeah it's really weird because the pique stuff is something as a Mentalist as a performer you tend to pick your powers right you tend to what you wouldn't because you don't you know but as performance ourselves when we perform this type of stuff we go okay does that

122:24fit sort of in the repertoire of my abilities do I have x-ray vision you know I Drive cause blindfolded you know is it put dough in there they put tape over they you see me do something along those times on your show and and it's this thing of like you pick your abilities and this doesn't seem to fit with anything except that uri geller did do this and also said that it could duplicate pictures and read minds once in a while as well I didn't do too much of the minor eating but did a little bit of it somebody would draw a picture then he would draw a picture and they would match so which is a standard mentalism magic trick anyway but his methods were a little bit more bold a little bit more direct yeah I'm still baffled stop being baffled how could I not be yeah well bet some Forks man maybe maybe someday I'll teach you how to do all this and I'll tell everybody no I won't

123:10tell you don't tell me I can't tell you you can't tell me nobody's gonna be impressed when you do it okay yeah I just want everybody to know is there anything else that you can do that's up I didn't really bring a whole lot cuz I've kind of just wanted to talk more than anything I mean what you've done it's very very impressive maybe I can do one thing for you okay all right so see these you know what they are right no the Zener cards basically the cyma shapes basically five shapes that were they were used at Stanford Research Institute I Duke University actually not Stanford Duke University I think created by call Zener simple shapes there's a square there's a star wavy lines a plus in a circle all right these are the standard shapes right there I'm gonna try to get you to choose a specific one now psychologically if I asked you to choose one which would you

124:08say like I mean I wouldn't even say psychological wavy longer the wavy lines that would be psychological is because it's right in the middle and that would be the right so I'm gonna go with I'm gonna go with a star I think star there's a circle there's a square the plus and the wavy lines are gonna be sum up so you don't know which is which alright I'm gonna have to look at them in just a second myself to make sure I know exactly where that is all right we can do this is the gambling thing or not but I don't like to do that rip people off strong I'm gonna put that in the right place okay good so this is what we're gonna do I'm gonna take cars and I'm gonna ask you do you think the star is that card you all you have to do is not choose a star you're gonna choose a star you won't know why you choose a star but you will choose the star all right okay it's just you won't have it

124:56you just will it's gonna be something I do something I say or something it's gonna be something but I'm gonna try it I just mean that's gonna make this may or may not work okay right but I say thank you Pastor do you think this is do you think I'm gonna say yes that's the star you say yes that's a star yourself okay so you're supposed to say no that's not the star at some point because you look if your idea is not to pick the star I want to not pick this up to anyone so if you think that's the star all right I will okay so you're just gonna say do you understand yeah all right so here we go I know you're watching me close all right so let's do it again hope you're ready to flip them around it makes them up one more time there's the sneaky hand movements are so confusing watch okay no see camera makes me sad these but so much time learning how to move your

125:41like that so I'm gonna keep it simple really simple for you my opinion yeah well I've cut it already so because I want to do it again because I don't make it very big all right your job is to not choose the story broke a not choose the story okay ready all right so um I guess I'll just ask you do you want this card no all right so that you don't want that one don't want that one do you want that card right don't choose a start yes I want that one you sure that's the one you were yes what I want don't look okay I won't look I don't trust you watch mine don't look okay let's see what you didn't choose you didn't choose a circle runner she was a plus it didn't choose the the wavy lines well the square he chose a star take a look yeah yeah but that's like sleight of hand right huh what the hell's that what are you talking about what sleight of hand I can't write this okay put in there all

126:49right I hate doing this stuff like this because especially with the amount of people that are listening to this podcast right what happens if I'm wrong I look like an idiot oh if you're wrong as a performer yeah somehow or another I think you're not gonna be wrong I could be so once again I'm gonna try and make you choose a star okay okay your job is to not use it okay I'm not gonna do it again after this is the last time we lose necessary do you want that card yes that's the one you want that's the one I want now keep in mind you did that the first time yeah all right don't look square circle plus wavy lines take a look damn it the story now do you realize that I'm impulsive and then I have no patience I do I go for the star immediately oh you did it the first time so you thought that by doing it again that I would not think that you would do it a second time is that what you did

127:49he's sort of kind of not what I did getting frustrated right no yeah no I'm very impressed I'm very impressed listen man this was a lot of fun it was fun and thanks again for doing the TV show that was a lot of fun too and anytime and thanks for being so well you don't you've cleverly navigated the waters being so honest about it being tricks without revealing the tricks and then even doing them in front of me which is incredibly impressive this Fork thing I don't know what to say I don't know what tell you this was fun I enjoyed it thank you for everything but I questioned everything you do and your website is Banacek calm calm ba and ACH ek and people can find out all your tour dates the final one dates everything and you gotta see this in real life folks it's gonna you up thank you sir