Courtney Dauwalter

00:02five four three two one welcome Courtney thank you thanks Rob I mean first of all how did you do what you did and how are you right now we're just jumping right in yeah let's just jump right in for people who are just tuned into Courtney one the Moab 240 which is a two hundred thirty-eight mile endurance race through the it's Moab right right in the Utah desert scammy ins mountains and how long did it take you to run 238 miles it took just under fifty eight hours that is so crazy and you be the second place person by more than 20 miles right what was the distance yeah I'm not sure the distance I think it was around 20 or so it was about 10 hours how did you do that and you're how old do you 32 that's young for these kind of races right yeah that's true because these kind of races usually it's like grit and anger at the world that gets you through yeah you're only 32 you're young and you

01:08the way you're winning is like so quite and you've only been doing this like big-time races like this for a short amount of time correct yeah that's right how long I've been running ultra marathons for maybe seven eight years but getting pretty competitive in the past couple years Wow so how did you start out the race how did you start out running you start out in high school yeah back in junior high high school I ran cross-country and track and continued endurance sports through college and tried some marathons and then it was just like a natural segue into trail racing but it's just the way you're beating these people is insane you're not just beating them you're like demoralizing people are you - nice beat the second-place person by 20 hours or 20 miles that's so crazy ten hours you said it was about ten hours that is insane you both start at the same time ready set go you're finished

02:10ten hours ahead like you could go go to sleep get eight hours sleep have a nice meal I can sit down and and then just just show up clean and shower and everything like that oh you're finishing now how cute I just slept all night that's crazy yeah it was it was cool I mean it was a cool adventure too to travel with your feet for 238 miles was I mean it was brand-new territory for me so I didn't know how it was going to go well it's pretty much brand-new territory for all the runners right this is like the first-ever 240 Moab 240 quite a few of them had done a bunch of 200 mile races before yeah there you go that's picture.you hoof in it hoof in crazy so what is going on why are you so much better than everybody else I think I had a good day out there you try to be too nice no but but really like objectively like how are you so much better than everybody else I don't I

03:18don't know that I'm physically better than any of them but I have been really trying to learn how to like tap into my brain when it physically becomes hard because I think our brain can help us overcome so much and it's so powerful so kind of that mind over matter thing and and when it physically becomes impossible to try and switch gears into like have it be a mental thing yeah and just keep pushing so what are you doing to do that like have you studied some forms of meditation or no I think just experience like I keep on doing these races that put me in uncomfortable physical states and and then I I try and keep in mind that like my brain can help me overcome this physical pain if I just keep going what so that's it just just stay tough trial and error yeah Wow so essentially self-taught in terms of like your mental fortitude kind of yeah I guess probably could give some of that

04:21credit to like parents or my upbringing or you know coaches I've had along the way but in these in this past couple years it's been just like not letting myself have an excuse to stop that's terrifying to everybody else because if you did decide to start like learning meditation or so what if like it took you to another level do you meditate yeah do that I don't know cuz I can't do what you do okay tell you I mean maybe it's just being comfortable with that excruciating agony and pain and just like finding a state of mind that you obviously know how to achieve maybe there's nothing more to it maybe it's just incredibly hard work and just grit which which you obviously have both of those I mean that could be just it yeah yeah I mean a lot of times people try to overthink things right mm-hm like how many people do you know where their life sort of never changes but

05:22they're always like doing self-help seminars and reading all these books and nothing changes it's the same person they keep screwing up they keep getting involved in bad relationships and you know sometimes maybe it's it's just there's a simpler thing or simpler answer right set your mind to something put in the the work to get there and then just execute the plan now it was this the furthest if you ever run that is the furthest yeah what was the previous furthest um the previous furthest was 155 ish miles wow that's a big difference yeah Wow and that was just on a flat track oh wow so this was really different than what I had done before well that's the interesting thing about these mountain races like because it's not just in terms of it's not just your cardiovascular endurance you have to have muscular endurance because you're climbing there's a lot of

06:18elevation change right yeah quite a bit it's nice though because then you get the like reprieve of using different muscles you're hiking muscles might be different than like your flat running or your downhill muscles so you get to kind of switch it around switch the effort around and why is everybody in this race using trekking pole I noticed that for me they were helpful I didn't use them until the probably last quarter of the race really um and they were helpful just as my feet were becoming a little more tender and my muscles not quite as quick to catch me on the downhills and uphills just to like disperse the effort a little bit to my arms well Jamie pull up that video of the what you know the sort of preview video of the Moab 240 when they showed all these people running over the top there's some precarious section yeah like and when you're tired you've

07:11already run like 8090 miles then you hit these crazy precarious sections like what is that like that's like don't die no one's there watching you saw you running with runners right like this would be a lonely death Moab 200 endurance run is 2 and 30 mile foot race through some of Utah's most stunning and challenging terrain and it really is yeah it's so beautiful and so Salomon is the sponsor of this they're the presenting sponsor and then there's a bunch of like sub sponsor I love their trail shoes look at this section that is insane this is the one that drives me nuts it's like if you just stumble off the side that's a wrap son yeah they're making it look like so easy to run down I'm pretty sure I was like stumbling my way down that a lot less gracefully well how come these guys can't do it the way you do it like something's going on because like this has got to be like

08:06insane to for the other people that we're running it that you win by these giant margins yeah I don't know I think you really don't know are you what is your diet like oh yeah nachos yeah I mean just a normal diet I don't restrict or like try and include anything different than the normal I guess the average American Wow so do you supplement with vitamins or do you take anything else I take a multivitamin that's it yeah Wow no minerals nothing correct no creatine nothing no-no-no so just essentially a multivitamin and just huffing it with nachos in your belly yeah yeah that's crazy like I would expect that someone who is so far ahead of the rest of the pack that you would have some like you go to Colorado Springs the Olympic Training Program and they get you hooked up to these rocky 4 machines like they had drunk oh the Russian guy stuff and they got like a music video soundtrack

09:17playing in the background to the best meanwhile you just drinking beer eating nachos yeah does it help living in Colorado like you're at a good altitude right yeah great altitude I think it probably helps I mean I'm right outside Denver so there's trails out my door so I that's my like everyday run is on trails climbing around the foothills of Colorado so quite a bit of climbing we're already at altitude so it's got a it's got a help so talk me through your preparation so when did it start like when when did you sign up for this race when did you know that you're going to do it I signed up in May but I also was signed up for a hundred mile race a month prior to Moab in so like mid-september and so my preparation was mostly for that 100 mile race and then after the hundred mile or it was just trying to recover make sure my legs and body felt fresh again and then got

10:23squeezed in a couple more weeks of solid training to get ready for my lab it's so funny because you say 100 miles like to me kill me but I mean you saying that you ran 238 miles and then a hundred mile that doesn't sound like much I know child's play it's how long does it take you to run hundred miles usually somewhere around twenty four hours or under depending on the trail and the climbing and stuff so when you're getting ready so you so you're preparing mostly for the 100-mile race and then it's sort of recovery and then the 100 mile race essentially get you in condition for the 240 yeah that's what I hoped is that it could be a good springboard to the next one so is that condition is that a mental thing or are we talking about a physical thing and a mental thing I think both yeah your body I mean your body is important so like the physical aspect is

11:21important as well and just being able like pound your legs for the amount of time the amount of miles that you need to for these races is physically learned so what kind of daily miles were you putting in when you're getting ready for the 100 I would average about a hundred miles per week so I don't know so that's not even too crazy that's not too crazy right because my friend cam Haines was trying to do a marathon a day yeah he's insane that's so cool is that too much I mean no he was doing great with it so well he came in a day later than you keep it up you know what you should do like 40 miles a day buddy no I think it depends on people's bodies like some some people a hundred miles per week is a lot their bodies can't sustain that and for some like campaigns he can do a marathon a day and and be in great physical form for it but he's a meathead and I always wonder I love him

12:24but I say this with all due respect I wonder if like he pushes too hard like maybe there's like a fine line between there's like a point of diminishing returns yeah yeah you know well you you go so hard that you're kind of overtraining and you know you can sustain it really you get better performance out of being like pushing less right yeah I don't I can't speak to to his training but I think he's pretty he's pretty new to all these ultras as well yeah I think so over the last few years he did the Big Foot 200 last year yeah it was just 205 miles he did that in 78 hours he actually did this race two hours quicker than he did the 205 which is so cool I'm crazy yeah probably because he's just humiliated by you she beat me by a day so like forget about the second-place person who you could have taken a nice restful eight-hour sleep gotten a fine meal at a restaurant had a

13:21glass of wine and took a shower and brush your teeth painted your toenails if you have any left do they all fall off no still got ten really yeah cams all fall off he takes pictures of malt taped up oh really disgusting so when you um when you're recovering from something like this how long does it take before you feel normal again um after this one I felt like a human so I finished Sunday night and I felt human by Wednesday and got out for some jogs then like Friday Saturday really yeah Wow I would be done with jogging forever this is so stupid I just take a car next time what so like when you say you felt like a human again like what do you mean by that for me those first couple nights after I don't sleep very well I think like everything is just on overdrive my my legs are throbbing and uncomfortable and it's hard to like turn your brain off as much as you want to so I was finally

14:31like getting good normal sleep by Wednesday and it kind of messed with my appetite for a couple days as well where food just like wasn't it didn't sound that great even though I was like totally depleted of nutrition yeah yeah it's gotta be such a shock for your body oh for sure who knows that's probably not good for us but you can't be well I say it can't be but maybe it can be right because maybe you're recovering and maybe when you recover from that extreme exertion your vitality ups right because like there's all these like people that say you ever read this that if you take a mat if you've run a marathon you should take six months off I've read that I actually read that like someone's recommendation it takes you six months to recover from marathan from one marathon well who who you fatso yeah who's saying this like obviously there's people that can do more than you like

15:25people people who are writing this stuff down or silly cuz no because cam can if he can run a marathon a day obviously he doesn't need six months off right and I've hung out with him after he's done this and he's totally normal yeah like it doesn't seem like there's anything wrong with them so that's not true so the question is like who are we comparing to like who's our baseline is our baseline like a guy who barely works out or is our baseline you cuz you're gonna get two radically different results right gotta take those articles with a grain of salt yeah but that's the thing what I was saying to Kim I was like well how do you know how much to Train II was no one knows how much to train for this stuff cuz it's really just guesswork yeah yeah which is part of the cool part you know it's like there's a million pieces to the puzzle of ultrarunning and and figuring them

16:10out is part of the fun of doing this sport now what has it been like for you after you won because you're like I've talked to so many people that really have no interest normally in endurance running and they've brought you up constantly like you're like a superstar it's good so I'm sure sounds crazy to you but like my friend Brian Stephens he was texting me the whole way back and forth while this was going on and you know he was like looking at your numbers and your times he's like this is insane I think this woman is insane like how is she doing this well thank you they had a good tracking system that was so yeah yeah that's what Brian was saying he's like I've never been less productive rings I'm just going online and checking this thing constantly um yeah I mean since then I had to create a Twitter have any social media Instagram I had a Facebook but that's how you were

17:07successful I don't know you weren't bogged down well the nonsense that people just you know social media nonsense could eat up a lot of your day yeah well I'm still figuring it out so don't don't bother just occasionally post things and just ignore everything else yeah yeah I'll just retweet a few things that's the moon just learning about those yeah that's that we treat but whenever anything's interesting that's a good move yeah so like when you when you finish the race like what is the feeling like when you cross the line and you look back and you don't even see a person like you you wouldn't be able to see them with binoculars like they're on the other side of the earth like the curve of the earth if you believe that thing the curve of the earth is literally so far like they they're beyond the curve that's true right isn't it twenty miles I would imagine you can't see straight twenty

18:00miles I would imagine twenty miles you might be able to see like the top a dude's head and he's like you'd have to have them crazy by nose and you could probably see him but yeah if your glasses glasses I mean what is that feeling like it felt amazing you know with the tracking system that we had when I left the last aid station there's like 17 miles to go and it was pretty much we could see that it was certain that I could get to the line first as long as I didn't like take a nap out there right or become like physically incapable but you could take a nap that was the thing did we take a nice one hi did you think about that let me just take a nice nap here oh nice five hour nap and you still have like five plus hours ahead of everybody yeah oh maybe yeah that would be nice also it was nice because we could I was running with my husband at that point we could enjoy the

19:01trail and like not be like super anxious about trying to be really efficient but just try and be efficient on the course and but then we saw that getting under fifty eight hours was possible so then I got a little like be in my bonnet about push the pace a little bit more a bee in your bonnet I've never heard that phrase a great phrase oh you should come to Minnesota we've got all sorts so does your husband run the same kind of races that you run or did he just like hop in every now and then um he runs 50 miles and 50 K so 31 miles but he didn't enter this race no he didn't geelong yep jumped in at certain spots so how does he get to these spots you have to drive yeah yeah relax a 238 mile loop mm-hmm hey he had to drive to all the places on this course maybe he spend the day in the car the couple of days in the car and I had a fantastic crew of friends

20:03out there and in these races you can have Pacers for certain sections so I could have a buddy run with me who was fresh and like their brain and their eyes and their legs were more alert to help me just keep track of the course flags like staying on course and stuff like that that's interesting like when you're doing this for this amount of hours what was the total hours again 50 great under 58 so when you're doing it for this amount of hours how much sleep are you getting um I slept 21 minutes Wow that is so crazy that was two separate naps really yeah so like 10 into 10 and 11 xx 1001 really yeah the one minute nap oh man it was amazing it really it really was why just why did you get up though after a minute so I did the 20 minute nap intentionally I crawled in the back of our crew car we had a sleeping bag back there and I tried to like get some good rest after it was like middle of

21:13the second night mm-hmm and I didn't sleep very well I was uncomfortable worked yeah and I was still like pretty amped up so I couldn't shut my brain off even though it was like becoming pretty delirious so then I left that aid station after laying in the car for 20 minutes and I was on the trail with one of my good friends and Pacers and I was falling asleep as I was running like zigzagging all over the trail I couldn't keep my eyes open so at one point I was bent over and I was like face-planting towards the ground and he's like just lay down like take a nap right here right on the trail so I'm like laying down already snoring as I'm like one minute just one minute wakes me up one minute later and I was like more alert than I've ever been and then we were super pumped up the rest of the time cuz we were like a 1 minute nap it was that's the craziest thing I've ever heard of a bunch of

22:10people like I talked to cam I think he took us similarly like really short nap and it just like rejuvenates you in a weird way wow I've heard that before that like if you're really tired a 20-minute nap will make a huge difference yeah if you could just lie down I've always like ignored that like how is that guy yeah next time try just one minute I'm too lazy I would I would stay asleep so how did like when he woke you up after one minute would you like why'd you wake me up no I was like why'd you let me sleep so long I thought it had been at least 30 minutes and I was like dude we gotta go why'd you let me sleep so long wow that was one minute one whole minute ready go and you were just out cold how cold I REM cycled like dreams and everything really yeah remember them I don't but it was like the deepest sleep and what was cool is as I was laying on

23:06the trail for one minute it was dark and beautiful stars out and their elk bugling like up on the hill so it was cool I didn't I didn't hallucinate that though it's real did you hallucinate at all I'd had some hallucinations yeah what would you see you know in the forest at night everything just like becomes something so there were tons of like faces and animals there was a guy playing a cello there was a leopard hanging out in a hammock I was like how vivid are these I mean pretty like where I think they're real and I'm like waving at him you're waving at the leopard in the hammock well I didn't wave to him I waved to the cello player really but did you know he wasn't real as you were running by yeah I mean now that I've done these quite a few times in the night I usually see some things and so now it's just like kind of cool to acknowledge that it's happening and try

24:03to remember so I can tell my tell my friends afterwards so is there any part of you that thinks like hey there's a guy with a cello in the woods or is there just a recognition that you're freaking out because you're running 58 miles or 58 hours I think just a recognition like huh guy with cello so you're just so focused on what you're doing that even the most bizarre thing like a leopard and a hammock yeah I mean there it just happens now so I know there's not actually one but how often is this take play when how many of these have you done these ultra marathons um quite a few and did they start the hallucinations start in the early ones yeah basically like my first couple hundred my lures where you go through the night it's always the night time where shadows just like play tricks on you and so I'm like in the mountains of Colorado and there's giraffes and like

25:01flying eels and all sorts of weird things and at first I was freaked out about it but now it's just like alright that'll be a fun story to tell afterwards have you talked to a doctor or anyone that and say hey what happens to the mind when no I haven't I'd be fascinated to know like what is what's happening that's right causing you to have these like extreme visual hallucinations cuz you you're saying they looked real yeah but I think it's just like shadows and your brain is too tired to like process so it just like jumbles them together into something that would make sense Wow I don't know but it's not freaking you out you just like alright yeah thanks for the tunes could you hear him no no so he was just like silently playing it yeah which is creepy in itself Wow is that the only hallucinations or is anything else weird during this one yeah um those were like

26:03the significant ones otherwise just a lot of like random faces on trees or rocks and stuff like that now as you're running right and you're running for 50 whatever miles or 58 and hours and you're constantly moving forward is there a point in time where you like like what does it feel like do you like in constant pain or are you just numb to it like what happens um it's kind of you go in waves like you'll be riding this wave where you're just feeling like amazing and really fresh and like your legs can cruise pretty well and everything nothing hurts you know everything's feeling really good and then that wave will eventually come crashing down where things are hurting again and you might be like whimpering along for a little bit but the cool part about these is that those waves like I mean they always come and then they they go so you ride this like high and low

27:02the whole race and when it gets really low when you're feeling awful you just have to remember that you're going to feel better again soon you just got to keep chugging along so you're in pain and then somehow or another you feel better even though you don't stop running yeah yeah how does it work I don't know like a switch flips or sometimes I'll like intentionally during those lows take more calories in thinking maybe that will help just like give my body some something to burn for a while to make it happy again what kind of stuff can you eat while you're running this much in one this length I was doing a lot of like water gatorade and then there's this powder you can put in water called tailwind it has like electrolytes and 200 calories per bottle so you're getting in calories and then like normal athletic foods like honey stinger products which are like gels and

27:59and shoes and stuff but then I was eating boatloads of the cheese quesadillas and all the eight stations they serve cheese quesadillas oh my gosh it was like a whole buffet line anything you wanted were real at these aid stations yeah it was good it was amazing Wow so you could eat cheese quesadillas and just keep running yeah so I would stop it each aid station demolished a cheese quesadilla like hang out for just a second to let my body reset and then keep cruising Wow which normally I'm not very good at eating real food during but this just felt like too much there's cam with a bacon cheeseburger yeah cover your blanket oh that's another thing like there's points in the race where it's extremely cold right it got really cold I think we hit 9 degrees on the second night and what are you wearing um a couple jackets like a windbreaker jacket and a rain jacket and some gloves

28:57and like a headband some pants nothing like absurd so just the fact you're constantly moving you stay fairly warm yeah and the windbreaker is the rain jacket to stop rain or from wind just layers I just wanted to like translate the body Hugh are you eating those uh those little waffle things those bee stingers yeah you've had them yeah great they're awesome so you're just trying to take in like the densest stuff like sugars and cheese in case you like just anything just anything that would stay in I didn't want to get nauseous and and start losing it on the trail and cam said he doesn't go to the bathroom the entire time like he doesn't have to just food just goes in and just do something yeah yeah it's not the case with you too yeah no bring him but he said he didn't poop for like three days I don't know if that's healthy Kim yeah talk to him listen to me no I use the restroom while

30:04I was out there did you have to pee yeah well that's crazy because I would think that you're you're sweating so much they would just go right through your skin yeah I'm not sure the signs of it for a while I was peeing like way too much like multiple times per mile and I think it has something to do with the amount of salt thank you that was another question I had do you take in salt tablets I wasn't until I was having this this problem and then it was like we gotta try and stop this cuz that's not good either to go as often has that yeah so then I took some salt tabs whatever nails did that clear it up yep now what are those like do you know what milligrams how much salt you're actually taking nope No so they're just like SS caps or something they're just a normal like you can buy them at any any athletic store oh so this is just a little pill of salt

30:56I think it's just mostly for runners essentially that's all I've seen use them but you could you could probably have some if you wanted what's the thought process behind it though the top process is that your body is pushing through all these minerals into the salt helps you retain water yeah yeah and what about other minerals do you have to take magnesium or anything else why are you doing that I didn't know and I don't even really know the the exact contents of that Tailwind powder that I was putting in I know it has lots of electrolytes and stuff like that that's supposed to help but I'm not sure if it has some of the other pieces that people need during these now before the race gets started do you hyper hydrate but you do like drink a ton of water to get ready or yeah I tried I mean nothing too crazy too crazy no what about food before the race you

31:48just eat like a pig and get ready no just normal just normal normal nachos just normal I chose normal beer and so like when you are like as you're leaving like as ready set go what's the state of mind you go into when you know that you're about to run 238 miles and kick everybody's ass it was exciting I mean it was this big adventure that I had I had high expectations of myself while at the same time having no expectations of myself because I didn't know I didn't know how it was gonna go and I really wanted to just enjoy being out there like moving my body with my feet for multiple days was really exciting and so I was pumped at the at the beginning and spent those first probably 50 miles like running with various people through the desert there's like canyon walls just like towering on every side and just trying to enjoy that like this is just the beginning if you start to come free or

32:54think about like how far you have to go you're gonna freak yourself out so like just V right now so you just sort of stay in the moment what's what I was trying to do yeah just left foot right foot left foot right foot yep easy as that is there ever a moment while you're doing this where you want to stop and quit yes no I never wanted to quit I I knew that the cutoff time was was Tuesday night and so no matter what happened out there I was going to make sure I'm finished this race even if I was coming in Tuesday night like if it meant I had to sleep for many many hours or multiple times or if I had to like death march my way around the desert I was gonna finish it death march you know just like slow oh okay that's a harsh way of looking at those sorry no knowledge eyes it's good yeah I did notice that there were some people that were still running you know after you guys had finished and

34:00you know after cam had finished I stopped looking at the time for quite a while and then I went like 8 hours 9 hours later and I'm like oh my god people are still running yeah those are warriors they're so impressive I mean they were out there putting on their headlamp for the fifth night that's a long time to be out there and they were it was incredible we got to hang around the finish line and watch quite a few of those you stuck around yep yeah that was one of the best parts we eat nice cream drinkin beer but did you think to yourself like how the hell did I finish so much faster than anybody um no I thought how the heck are these people like so incredible and still going after I mean I'd like to think I'd be able to keep pushing myself on that fourth day into the fourth night but that's mentally really hard oh it's gotta be yeah but you do understand that you

35:03stomped everybody's ass do you get that right you you're like you're so humble this is kind of amazing thank you you do understand that though right I mean it's like has it internalized um I understand yeah I put together a pretty good day and when you when you stop and you think about when you reflect and you look back on it we're like you know a week past it was about more than two weeks how long ago was it oh one week one week yep so you're a week past it and how do you like how do you process that yeah that's still I'm still working on it like just the whole adventure all the places like all the sights I got to see the people that I got to me the the fact that my feet carried me that far like what kind of shoes do you run Salomon shoes okay so same as which one's um they're called the sense ride mm-hmm have you tried them not having I see you you got some Solomons on yeah I always

36:06wear these uh speed cocktails cuz they're good they have a lot of grip yeah when I'm not wearing those Vibrams I wear those five finger shoes - I sort of alternate so do you run the you run the sidewalks in those there no I just run trails you run around here yeah yeah yeah that's awesome it's good but it's not like Colorado you you're dealing with altitude a lot you'll see you up like didn't someone just die some endurance guy just got bit by rattles are you yeah dozen golden wasn't it yep which is where I live holy yeah what happened to that dude just really unfortunate I don't actually know the whole story but he was out on a trail like it's a couple miles from my house and and got bit and had some like weird reaction to it like he had help pretty quickly um and got to the hospital in pretty good time but unfortunately something about his body and that bite like wasn't good Wow

37:04yeah cuz I thought rattlesnakes like you have a few hours yeah usually right yeah I mean it's not good but it's not you a few hours and pretty much if you read anything about what to do after a rattlesnake bite those things are wrong like pretty much can't do anything you shouldn't suck the venom out you shouldn't like slice it open you shouldn't do anything just get to the hospital as calmly as possible you shouldn't suck the venom out no what was that have a dan Aykroyd movie where he got like venom in his butt and he was telling someone remember we're gonna see it here I'm sure he's furiously typing because I the reason why I remember it is because Sam Kinison was mocking him I was mocking it but they must have had some sort of a feud back in the day anyway well if he had was it in city slickers okay oh that's why Sam Kinison was mocking it he got kicked off the

38:08original city slickers he was in it he was in the original cast and he didn't get along with somebody and they get rid of him well it wouldn't have helped if he did suck the venom why do people think that you should do that I don't know the old wives tale or something I'm not sure yeah they say you're supposed to cut it cut it open and yeah you do that either what do you do do you make a tourniquet I think that's actually a good idea right um the the latest thing I read that's the best to do is just to have a Sharpie long circle where the bite is and mark the time and then like every 20 minutes as you're if you have to hike yourself out or like you're trying to get somewhere to go get help Circle it again 20 minutes later to show where the swelling has gotten to hmm so that the doctors have a better idea like how quickly it's it's moving through you Wow I saw a horrible thing online this

39:00young man got bit in his arm and his skin started to die and this tissue started to die you know necrosis and so they had to do all these massive skin grafts and just massive surgeries and it had essentially rotted down to the bone see like the bone in his arm it was rough but he lived yeah I think he'd gone through more than ten surgeries jeez yeah it was awful and I didn't know the rattlesnakes could do that to you I'm like whoa yeah you're rattlesnakes here oh yeah yeah I killed one just a couple weeks with your bare hands stomped it oh yeah die stomping our chance again people say shouldn't but them like if they're near my house like this no CH I have kids I have little kids yeah any rattlesnake that's in my yard dead what else do you guys have mountain lions out here yes yeah you ever seen one of those I have seen him but I saw him in Colorado I haven't seen one out

40:00here I saw one in Santa Barbara actually that was weird it was in Montecito which is like this really nice residential community we're driving up the road and I saw what I thought was a coyote coyote or what a tail oh it's a cat just out on the street just out on a regular yeah it was a big - yeah you know I can probably 70 80 pounds those are scary yeah it's like it's not big for a mountain law and they get to be like 115 yeah and uh what's really interesting on here is people don't everyone here is so organized that their understanding of what a mountain lion is is like you know they think it's the lion king yeah yeah there's this one that he has a name - it's like P 32 or P 41 or some and he went on a killing rampage at an alpaca farm okay and killed like 11 alpacas and it soleus yeah and doesn't even eat him he just went on a rampage yeah and this woman

41:00got a depredation permit to kill it because it's her all palca farm and like this lion has just decided to start up her animals and this is like what she does for a living okay and she got all these death threats from animal rights activists I mean like death threats like she was terrified so she decided not to do anything she's gonna hire someone to kill this mountain lion it's like if you love animals wouldn't you want to stop the animal that's murdering all her animals right crazy well and it's not doing it for food which is unusual well the apparently they have a reaction they can get into a pen when there's a bunch of them in there they just can't help themselves okay they're just they just can't help themselves they just see them all there and they just jak1 and jak2 the other one and he wasn't even eating them he didn't eat anything yeah yeah I've never

41:45seen one out on a run but I've always got my eyes peeled it would be so scary oh there terrifying they're terrifying animals and you know for the most part they're important they're important part of the ecosystem but the weird thing about out here is we've sort of sectioned off their habitat by our highway system and so there's some of them that are stuck in the Santa Monica Mountains and the genetic diversity is not very strong right I actually had a coyote expert on here who was he works for the what did he work for the Department what was the the actual organization he worked for far what was it anyway some sort of Park Ranger type fell a really nice guy but he was telling us about the ones that they have like in Griffith Park there's a mountain lion in Griffith Park people just jog and riding their bikes and this guy's just out there eating deer she's

42:42all day long and they have to capture him every couple of years they have to dart him because his collar the the tracking device of his collar runs out of batteries also every couple years they got to put the whack on this guy put him to sleep and no it's interesting it's one of the good things about California is that we don't have a lot of car accidents with deer you know it's it's very uncommon okay whereas you said you're from Michigan Minnesota soda Minnesota has a lot a lot of them a lot of car accidents yeah and these places where they don't have apex predators they have a lot more does do you guys have what do you have out there like as far as you have wolves in Minnesota yeah wolves yeah yeah I think like way north there's even like I mean there's got any mousse and you have mountain lions Minnesota I don't know about any mountain lions yeah

43:43well out here there's there's a lot of coyotes which get the fawns and then there's mountain lions which decimate the deer so no car accidents very few deer California is like a really low deer density state interesting yeah so there's a there's good to that northern Minnesota fighting Cougars now believed to be bought oh they were fighting each other they're up in a tree yeah that's a bobcat cardboard cutout size of a cougar or mountain lion left it's compared to the photograph of Obama they're just probably for the photo oh yeah that Minnesotans passing the time yeah I saw a bobcat that I thought was a cougar I saw a bobcat with its Cubs and in Tejon ranch and I thought it was a cougar their tail give it away yeah well I just saw the cat's not like this big cat in the road and I was like whoa it's not a mountain lion yeah and then I we eventually figured out that it was a

44:50bobcat oh good so we do have uh we do have Bobcats in Minnesota hey I got a question for you can you talk about the run rabbit run race you had that you won all right yeah we can talk about that about an end no I'll let her describe it because it sounds pretty crazy what happened so the hundred mile race that I was doing a months before Moab at about I mean 12 miles roughly to the finish line my vision started blurring like in the periphery and over the course of the next couple miles closed in until it was pure white I couldn't see anything so I just like stumbled my way along roughly ten miles of trails to get to the finish line pretty much I would say like 98% blind what I could see my feet like right in front of my feet but it was just whiteout so I was running and falling everywhere it was probably hilarious if people were watching but I hit my head also on a

45:55rock well do you blind yeah one of the times I fell so I had blood dripping down my face like stumbling along totally couldn't see the trail you still won yeah managed to finish and and hold the lead you're a savage you should give seminars on how to be a savage that is crazy so what what did what happened to your vision so since the there's been tons of people kind of talking about it apparently it happens in ultras quite often they are thinking it's a corneal edema so basically like I wear contact lenses to see and the like contact mixed with the air and the dryness and mm-hmm all sorts of things cause like a kind of fluid or I'm not really sure how it works have you ever thought about getting lasix or something people who have done LASIK also get this corneal edema so for now I'm just staying staying with the contacts cuz I've I've been learning how to deal with

46:55those a little bit better well did that concern you at all when you're about to run 238 miles yeah I really didn't want to go blind again oh Jesus Christ but I especially at that course yeah yeah right off a cliff yeah oh I was using eye drops I'm just like get some like tears going in there and I wore glasses for this whole race in my lab because that's supposed to help as well keep grit from hitting yeah yeah now when you got back and you won that race and you were basically almost blind how long did it take for your vision to recover five six hours oh that's it yeah oh that must've been a relief oh such a relief yeah I was pretty sick of it by the time I finished we concerned that it could be potentially permanent you know it didn't feel permanent it felt I think because it went white and because it like moved in slowly it felt like topical I don't know I didn't I didn't

47:56really consider while I was racing if it was permanent I was just like amped on finishing the race at that point but once I finished no one seemed overly concerned about it like we went to the hospital and they were more concerned with checking out my head so it didn't feel like that urgent whoa yeah but it was weird yeah did you think about quitting no yeah even though you're blind and you got a concussion you look like Kerry what the hell well I hit my head and it funked pretty hard and then there was liquid dripping on my face but I put my hand up to touch it and I couldn't see my hand in front of my face to see if it was blood or not Wow I had no idea and what is this course like that you're running on um it's in steamboat Colorado so mountains and pretty rough trails on this section where I fell yeah but the last six miles of the race you finally get to like a

49:01fire road so a little bit wider a little more room for error you go cricked that's just so crazy so how how are you knowing where to step you're not you're just guessing so that's a picture of the course yeah so you're running that course blind well that sections quite a bit more technical than the section I went blind on when you say technical what exactly do you mean like big rocks and cliffs stuff like that the second why would it be why would that be technical um I don't know that's just the word they associate with like trickier trails mmm like you have to be more used technique is that what they're saying maybe I've heard that term before this one I always asked yeah like people talk about like technical terrain like deep you know I don't know what it I don't know the root word for it I guess you just can't just flat out just hoof it you have to think about what you're doing

49:55yeah like your foot placement is a little bit tricky you're kind of looking down a lot while you having yeah I can't just run straight right right like as most people like if you're running on a flat trail you're just kind of looking ahead and you're assuming the road is gonna be the same with the left foot as it is for the right foot and the left right this you can't right yeah now when you're doing something like that I would think well you gotta constantly look down that is when I would be concerned about like mountain lions yeah cuz you're not looking yeah and they probably think you're trying to get away right yeah I'm pretty sure if you end up seeing the mountain lion it's already too late for you oh really I know did you hear about that kid in Alaska they got eaten by a bear in a race yeah that's unfortunate yeah I called his mom too called his mom

50:43for the bear attacked him and said I think there's a bear that's following me yeah yeah yeah I mean animals are a real part of it there-there was also a guy who was jogging along minding his own business and a hawk came and tried to swoop him scooped his head it he had scratches across his whole head from the talons of this Hawk what pull up that picture yeah what like the hawk thought he was food so he was gonna grab him and bring him to the nest gangster horse guy I don't think that little I think like a adults I'm pretty sure if a hawk landed on my head I guarantee you I'm gonna have a stuffed hawk in here right here I'm gonna have that plastic neck I have Hawks in my yard all the time they're trying to get my chickens one I think they got one one of them went missing we're trying to figure out what happened look at that wow that is crazy that's from a Talon whatever escaped

51:54Harris Hawks are attacking runners and walkers prompting fears they're now breeding in Britain oh this is an England wow that is a huge gash where people are just listening we're talking like 11 12 inch gashes on this guy's head the whole head who's hold the whole top of his head is like a track like train tracks like two straight lines yeah hole scar that's gonna make the beautiful scar right yes what happened to you gangster I wonder I wonder if he did he's like oh my Oh someone help me that's not the hawk Harris Hawk so this is an escaped hawk they're saying so is this a hawk that like essentially was a captive hawk and now they got loose and they don't know how to eat they don't know what to do and maybe that's crazy maybe it like thought this guy was give it a shot I recall hearing what I now know was the bird's wings flapping behind my head and then suddenly just

53:02talons but other than that there was no warning she thought it was a mugging he thought he got mugged wow what a crazy bird the bird thinking he could kill a person yeah that is a gangster bird who escaped bird attacking hew go back to that again real quickly what do you say whilst the attacker was it originally thought to be a buzzard no one had become aggressive during a nesting season experts pointed out the native birds of prey seldom strike in the summer months Wow Harris yeah there's those things there the claws and those we were just talking about Eagles the other day like imagine like a something that can swoop down and grab a salmon out of a river and fly off with it yeah these ridiculous things they have at the bottom of a even pick up like small deer and stuff yeah yeah I can yeah the Mongols use them to to attack wolves they they have trained Eagles

54:03that they swoop down and they grab wolves and they kill the Wolves they drop them from a pie or just kill them huh they kill them with their talons their towns are so strong it's like knives they just grab a whole their neck and stick the towns and it's crazy to watch mean these aren't big wolves these are like coyote size wolves yeah but it's still it's like it's it's so weird to watch it's like this thing just trying to run away and this eagle just knows what to do swoops down just grabs him by the neck and wrestled him to the ground and then the thing the mongolian guys come over here you can watch it here so they're trained see they have those little strings coming off the pegs and there's wolves like and so this dude just releases the eagle the eagle swoops down and just death from the sky just jack some it's crazy to think that this was somehow no they trained these

54:55things to do this too and then they would you know kill the wolves and take their skins I guess they like make jackets or something the wolf knows what's going on too and look at he's so much bigger than the Eagle that's what's really busy because was an eagle way like 20 pounds should have ran a little faster there at least are bad as they are though those are just huge birds huge but even a huge bird is a fraction the size of that wolf yeah and then just holding them down young wingspan freaks it out yeah I just don't think I think it's just a superior murdering machine you know I mean I think like when it comes to like nature's killers Eagles are just far superior through a wolf and they they have air on their side they crack down on you which is cool yeah they move through 3d space you know it's just a whole different thing yeah so do they ever get your chickens I know

55:49that a hawk has yeah and well we'd know I saw a coyote get one I saw a coyote run over the fence with a chicken in his mouth I was sitting with my wife and my kids were playing some game like monopoly or some and we look out the window and I see a coyote running through the backyard with a chicken in his mouth and he just hops a fence and I opened the door just to go you yeah like he was gone it was a it was a very complicated scenario cuz he actually had talked my dog into helping him no way yeah I think it was a girl I think it was a pretty sure as a girl coyote and my dog yeah my dog thought it was my my have a big dumb dog and he thought that was Murph room yeah he wants to play with the chickens old help them cuz the dog can my dog is a he's a nice dog to people but he's not nice to chickens and he's murdered a few chickens in the past he's got I think so

56:44far he's killed six of my chickens oh wow yeah he broke into the fence recently I don't think I talked about this we were outside and we had heard something we heard these chickens like squawking and making up all this noise and I look and I'm like how was the dog in the chicken coop he clawed through the chicken wire he's a mastiff he's a big man oh wow smash the chicken wire enough so he could get his body in there and just went on a rampage and just was murdering chickens folks yeah it's just their instinct you know yeah they just can't help it and I a friend of mine said that he had a dog that did that once they killed his chicken and he took the dead chicken and tied it on the dog's head and then chained the dog to a tree and left him there for a couple hours and he said he said it worked he said the dog never with the chickens again so are you gonna try that no no my I think my

57:49golden retriever he's a sweetheart and I think he's killed the chicken too I don't know if he killed it but he showed up with one in his mouth and it was dead and we're trying to figure out if he killed it or if it was already dead cuz sometimes they just die yeah she cuz we don't like to think he's a killer he's still a baby but my two dogs just dogs and chickens so yeah you know it's a classic relationship I don't know how animals worried about do you ever like bring any sort of first aid with you do you bring like a backpack when you're running um it depends on on where I'm going or how long I intend to be out there it's like when you're running Moab do you bring any sort of a backpack or anything yeah I had a pack that was carrying water and like an emergency blanket and jacket just in case and food so when you have an emergency blanket is that one of those thin like sort of

58:44silvery blankets just folds down and uh very small those really work yeah I mean fortunately I've never had to use one in an actual emergency but you know how after marathons they give everyone like a tin foil wrap basically I think it's the same thing where it's like holding in your body heat huh so if worse comes to worse out there you've got something to to help you get through better than nothing right right now when you're running and you're drinking water are you do you have bottles of water or do you have like a hydration bladder and a tube like how do you running the pack I was using has bottles so it can carry I mean at one point I had two and a half liters of water with me for like a really hot long section how long did that last you for I made it last for 20 miles that's crazy that's it two and a half liters seems like a tiny amount of water to drink for

59:41yeah 20 miles of running god that's crazy and it was a really hot exposed day out there in the desert have you ever been running like cam was telling me that he did the Bigfoot 200 and there was a stretch where he miscalculated and he realized the terrain and he didn't have any water yeah you got to go for several hours with no water you ever done that before that's awful um I don't know if I've ever had you have several hours but yeah I've gotten to the point where it's like miles and miles away still and you're fresh out of water that's gotta suck yeah how much of a performance hit does that take I think it depends like also it can take a big toll out of you mentally if you stress out about it too much but if you're just like well this is the situation the only solution is to get to the next aid station then I think it is just a blip on the on the radar

60:37that's an interesting approach and that's what I wanted to get to this about how it transcends how your this your mental fortitude sort of like how it manifests itself in everyday life like your ability to just deal with is so superior to the average person like when you hear people complain like Starbucks is out of venti lattes it's you know like no more caramel macchiatos like normal everyday complaining stuff is like what a lot of people sort of engage in sort of a recreation the people have to complain about nonsense right yeah well how do you deal with that to each their own I think I mean you just let it happen if that venti latte was gonna make your day I'm really sorry that they're out you know but there's got to be a part of you that realizes like how I mean so many people are just really very weak in terms of like their ability to overcome adversity you know I think they just

61:41like aren't giving themselves enough credit and I think we're all capable of way more than we think we are if we just like jump in and go for it whatever it is Bryant and you think like you realize that more the more you push yourself like do you understand yourself more after running 238 miles I'm trying to yeah I'm trying to like find my physical boundary I'm trying to find the mental boundary like where where can I take this and trying to learn about myself and about the world and meet people along the way but I think that that must give you immense confidence to overcome obstacles boundaries like the fact that you can do what you can do that you can just put your mind into this state of just dealing with the constant grime you're falling asleep you're half blind I mean it's like this more than half blind 98% blind I mean it's that that has got a sort of transcend I mean it's

62:39really must sort of make its way into your everyday life in a very weird way I hope so what do you do for regular stuff like do you have a regular job I taught middle school and high school science for nine years and just this past year I stepped out of the classroom so now you just run so currently I'm I'm running yeah Wow so how does that work you have sponsors or something like that yep I have some sponsors and a really supportive husband and and my school like has been super supportive through all this and they were like go see what you can do without without the 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. shift you know like see what you can make of this and and let us know if you want back in teaching ever did they freak out when you won the Moab haha well one of the guys I teach with Balaam was actually one of my Pacers out there so he has been really supportive and awesome to train with and I haven't

63:38actually talked to anyone else at the school since then but it got to be incredibly proud I mean to say hey go go see what you can do yeah I know I K look what I can do yeah pretty crazy and so is this you are your your goal now is to just run yeah for the time being I want to just see what can happen if really dedicate more time and energy to training and traveling for races and all of the pieces that go with that and what his woman's name had put on the Moya Candice Bert Candice and dis Candice like look it I know Chu is she involved in Bigfoot as well yeah yeah all those 200 mile races are hers but if she looked at the 240 now and look at you and go Courtney might be able to do 320 she she just the other day suggested on the like there's a Moab 200 Facebook group and she put it out there what about a 500 miles know that's Candace she suggests I know what Courtney don't

64:46do that I mean why you're a psycho Candace is a crazy person did she run these races too well unfortunately when your race directing she can't run the 200 miles but she fortunately I wish I could she wish I could run with you Courtney she doesn't have a hundred mile races and yeah is a great runner but five hundred that is next level what is the longest anybody has ever run like what's the longest race ever is it that Moab no um let's see so there's races that are called six-day races and it's just on a small loop and you try and go as far as you can do that loop as many times as you can in six days hmm and I'm not actually sure what the record for that is but I'm certain that it's higher than 238 hmm so when she's talking about a 500 what 3,100 mile race there you go it's a relay race but Sri Chinmoy marathon team look up--bam six-day or the world record welcome to the 21st

65:51annual self-transcendence 3100 mile race you know why they say it's a self-transcendence because after 2,000 miles you run with Jesus he's literally with you you transcend you're running on air that's crazy 52 days they must log an average of 59 points smile today that's wait I think this is the one in New York it's just around like a city block in New York or something the runners begin 6 a.m. and run for extended periods throughout the day taking breaks as needed if they want to they can continue as late as 12:00 midnight when the course closes for the night oh that's pretty cool boy now the community has got to be a very strange community of like iron-willed human beings oh it's such a special community I'd imagine yeah like this the character of those people when everyone's got a story and they're all out there battling their own battle you know it's know and

66:56it's cool to be at the finish line then and celebrate together and God swap war stories you know I'm sure I mean I just like to find other human beings that are capable of putting their mind and their body into that position yeah and want to do that like choose actively choose to do that and look forward to it and look forward to the next one pay money to do it oh how much does it cost for the this one I've maybe seven eight hundred do you win anything nope Jesus Christ we got to get you a prize she should have a prize you should win something metal this is crazy think about how much they win when they play golf oh you knocked a ball in the hole way to go fatso doesn't impress me at all what you do is like I just feel like it's massively underrated in terms of like society's appreciation of it yeah well a lot of people don't even know these are happening like ultra

68:00marathons are a very alien thing to a lot of people I wasn't aware of them yeah until I became friends with cam I didn't know anybody who was that crazy so what mileage are you running now I only run a couple yeah run like three the most I run is like four I mean they have even half marathons on trails that would be cool you know just check out trail running is so awesome it is well most of what I'm doing is like super steep hills okay that's what I like to do I do a lot of hill sprints yeah just but it's it's made a big difference in Mike martial arts training I've relied upon it for like six eight months maybe no January thing I started running so it's more than that incorporated with all of this makes a huge difference in my wind you know like and I never do you see I used to feel like my the thought like I guess it was just laziness or I just didn't want to try it but a lot of

68:49people's thought process is well if you do cardio like specific to your athletic event right like if you do you get to just do jiu-jitsu just a lot of rolling do a lot of sparring and your cardio will go up if you do kickboxing just do a lot kickboxing hit the bag a lot and your cardio go up it will but I maintain that just it's just sheer cardio from running is a different thing and that your capacity for cardio is expanded especially when you do here Hill running or Sprint's yeah you think so yeah I would think so now if you do you do anything else other than running do you are you involved in any other athletics all right now no I played on some like adult co-ed volleyball and soccer teams recently but although I just run in right now do you have a like a long-term goal or is there anything that you'd like to accomplish I don't know I just want to keep pushing the limits and

69:44finding finding out what's possible going a little bit faster or a little bit further and getting to see parts of the world is what I'm hoping for in this next year how many other women win these things there's been in the past couple years there's been it's becoming a little more frequent so I have a female overall winner yeah because for a long time that wasn't the case right right why do you think that is I'm not sure I don't know if like the confidence or the time women are putting in or like just figuring out nutrition stuff I don't know I don't know what's been the like thing that switched it over but it's not as absurd as it used to be for sure well what you do is absurd I mean that's absurd that to not just win but to win by such an enormous margin you know what an inspiration you must be to other young runners that are coming up right now and just know that

70:37that's possible that someone can can do that yeah I mean I I hope yeah to inspire future generations my niece like I mean that'd be cool I don't know if it's happening but 100% keep trying I have no desire to do it and you've inspired me oh thank you but the you know the story of the four-minute mile right yeah that before who was the guy Prefontaine no not that guy who was it that broke the four-minute mile was it like Alan I forget his name I was gonna say Jesse Owens Bassanio but whoever the gentleman was it broke the four-minute mile they used to literally think it was physically impossible roger bannister thank you but once he broke it then a bunch of people broke words they realized it could be possible you know which is another one of the reasons why when someone says oh if you run a marathon you have to take six months off like up nobody knows what people can do

71:31it's really true that there's there are boundaries to human performance that have not been explored yet I agree absolutely yeah so people like you you're like at the tip of the spirit of you realize that you are you are I'm telling you you are like in human history I don't think there's a whole lot of people that can ever say that they've run 238 my bet there's maybe one or two other people that have ever walked the face of the earth that have done what you did they might not have error I mean maybe this like some crazy Aborigine or some indigenous people that we don't know about someone who lives in Mexico in the mountains or something like that has done something crazy like this but for the most part I mean how many people have ever done what you did I think there were 95 finishers at the lab 240 but how many people have done it in less than 58 hours this year just one but I

72:25think it'll keep falling that's why my thought process yeah and do you think that there's anything left do you think you left anything on the table as far as like when you cross the line was there a thought like I could have done that maybe like five minutes faster yeah I mean sure yeah you can cut out time at aid stations you can do sections more efficiently so I've my hope is there's always room for improvement and and if I went back next year I would absolutely be trying to to push the pace and and drop my time what would you try to get it under 50 I don't know I think I just have to see how the day was unfolding and like what sort of obstacles were coming out that if you did it under 50 I guarantee is some people just throw themselves off the side of it like me play a basketball against Jordan like I can't do this anymore you know I mean I don't know seven

73:26that'd be almost eight hours cut off and I don't think I can that'd be a lot yeah but my person came in second okay if you didn't exist that person who came in second would be a bad beat everybody's ass in this crazy race he's a little bummed out right now he sit at home going ten hours I bet that guy like gets a good night's sleep and you know brushes his teeth and forgets about it for a little while gets in his car and then he's in traffic and the light turns red I hope you're not thinking that shot good news Shawn you beat me by ten days think think of it in terms of rate well it's it's you know you're the high-water mark now I guess I mean I can't imagine there's any other way to put it you won the first one but you want it by such a ridiculous margin yeah we'll see you next year what what's people are capable of now Candice and her crazy idea for 500

74:37miles are you gonna indulge her in this ridiculous quest yeah I mean yeah she threw it out there she had like immediately positive response from everyone in this in this group course yeah talking psycho I know yeah and she was saying maybe 2019 she'd be able to pull it together oh why does she need that much time I mean the logistics involved and then there's like permitting you have to do and where would you would she have one of these things yeah she didn't say how about the surface of the Sun yeah it's cold gravity you'd be like cheating like 1/6 1/6 Earth's gravity yeah I mean I just I wonder like what is the limit like what is the limit of a human yeah in terms of like I mean you said that when it was over you were wrecked for days you you couldn't sleep you really weren't eating well but when you cross that finish line and if someone said okay the real finish

75:43line is another 80 miles you just would have kept going yeah if that's if that was real and I had 80 more miles to cover I would figure out how to do it whatever is 180 how many more miles do you think you have left in your body I mean there's there a point where you're just tissue would just give out maybe yeah um but like for this 500-mile race she's suggesting there's like a she's thinking a 10 day cutoff or whatever Oh God you know so then you just gotta build in some good sleep and yeah sorry Candace if we weren't supposed to talk about this yeah we're talking about it that's like that's ten days is not well I guess but no one's gonna do that right you're just gonna keep running no one's gonna just go 50 miles a day right you could what's that in your plan yeah but no one's gonna do that I mean for this one people had sleep plans there's aid stations out there that have like cots

76:44and blankets and you can stay they say for six hours they'll let you sleep there before they boot you to the course six hours six hours get up lazy yeah I don't know if they just want to keep turning them over in case there's a need for more that makes sense so they wake you up at six hours apparently I didn't have I don't have any personal experience would you get off the cot and just leave right on the ground now what yeah right here it's over yeah so I guess for this one they'd have to have sleep stations out there and I mean I think what I'm getting at is the fascinating part of this to me is that the boundaries are at least somewhat unexplored because what you did was in a way very revolutionary like what you did is like like you just you just flipped the whole thing on its head by coming in 10 hours and 20 plus miles ahead of the second place person like now people are

77:45gonna go okay well what what's possible because maybe there's someone out there that could do that @courtney yeah absolutely there is glue I haven't met them really exists I don't know that's the question that's the cool part is if people just keep like wondering that then yeah I mean we'll be breaking down all sorts of barriers that's what's fascinating about it to me as a completely outside observer is that what you're doing is it's you're essentially in unexplored territory and even the training protocols right like your protocols different than cams and I'm sure that Sean God's got a different thing that he did and everybody's got their own little methods you know and wasn't there a guy that was leading for a while but he had a he had a bail at like 150 miles he couldn't take it anymore yep so I was going back and forth for a while with a guy until maybe yeah I

78:38think it was 150 miles what happened to him I'm not sure I think his legs or his quads or something was given out I'm not positive I didn't get to have a conversation with him and does that happen often where someone just comes out of the gate too hard or maybe like he's trying to keep up with you and he outpaced himself yeah unfortunately they're called DNFs or did not finish and those happen pretty frequently like what's the percentage of you out of gas it was a hundred plus people entered right yeah I think this the 200 the Moab race had way less than a normal like hundred mile race for example we left DNFs way less people dropped out yeah interesting I don't know if it's like the mindset going in you just know it's this big adventure and you're gonna be out there for multiple days so you're ready for that versus a hundred mile race I mean people are breaking down

79:31barriers with how fast those can be done yeah and so then you're you're going out guns blazing from the start and and then you've got a higher potential for a blow up that just can't be fixed hmm so is that what happens like you your muscles just break down you get what does it call the autologous or something like that your muscles start eating themselves yeah and just like no response you're getting nothing back from them yeah and what is that thing that those CrossFit people get robbed oh my losses oh yeah yeah do you ever get that I've never gotten robbed Oh rhabdomyolysis yeah something about like your muscles are breaking down into your bloodstream or yeah yeah that's not good it's supposed to be horrible yeah and apparently like way more common today than a muscle breakdown damages the kidneys apparently it's way more common today because of these CrossFit classes

80:25and you know people push themselves and push that's the thing is like it's not a matter of what's possible like hey Courtney ran 248 miles I can run it too well yeah maybe but you're gonna have to build up to that stupid just do it tomorrow you know that's kind of the crazy thing about all this right is that like you're you're building like a mountain one Lego block at a time right and and someone who's like oh well her mountains like 5,000 feet high I'll just build a foot know it takes a long ass time to build that mountain right yeah I mean for me I've been I've been training for this long stuff for seven years now so I wasn't like instantly successful at the hundred mile distance and it's taken a lot of training and a lot of just learning along the way now because of the fact that you ran this 238 mile race at a certain pace and you did so phenomenally

81:24do you feel like your body is now going to be stronger for the next one I hope so I hope if I treat it nicely for little bit here and let it fully recover but then I can try and springboard off of this for the next thing plenty nachos plenty of beer yeah slowed it in now do you do any other kind of training do you do any weight lifting or yoga or anything else you incorporate anything else yeah I do I go to the gym mostly at the gym I do core work and like throw throw around a couple five pound dumbbells but otherwise no I I think yoga would be a great thing to incorporate I just haven't I haven't gotten motivated to head to those classes you had that's so funny now do you stretch sometimes but wouldn't you like think that that would be a good thing to do I mean oh absolutely why don't you do it I mean I try yeah it's just not like incorporated into my

82:27normal routine very well mm-hmm do you think maybe like things along those lines like maybe yoga or weightlifting or stretching would maybe possibly advance you to another level yeah I mean I might as well try and see yeah but that's what I'm think I'm like you're so far ahead now that I would imagine it's a matter of like what could possibly make you better like you're you're obviously too four to win by that extrema margin like I would think obviously what you're doing now is amazing like what if it ain't broke don't fix it right but are you at your very best um I hope not I'm gonna keep trying to strive for higher just keep putting Lego blocks up yeah keep building yeah but it seems like it's a fairly good analogy you know that it seems that it's a slow arduous process of improvement and it takes discipline and constant focus and constant attention and just time in yeah

83:33and enjoying it too like that's a huge part of it for me as well as I'm loving it still so but is it you think that's part of the success as well the enthusiasm that you have I think it's gotta be if if you're out there grinding everyday for hours and you're just hating it I mean right then you won't be jazz to go to any starting line yeah well that's like sort of what you were saying about the water thing that if you're low on water like don't just don't let it freak you out yeah just deal with it and it'll be less like God that really does apply to life doesn't it I think so yeah yeah no matter if you run or not I think I'm just figuring out how to deal with situations like that without freaking out and having a record day is huge now what about runner's high how how do you get when you run in like that is that real yeah I mean I get it I just get

84:25tired yeah sure yeah I mean when you're out there like cruising along some beautiful trails and you're in an amazing place and you feel really good and maybe you're with people or maybe not it definitely can feel really awesome but people like sort of taste that down right there's some people that that is like the only way they stay sane I think they got to go out and get their medicine yeah yeah I'm not running do you have like an end goal like do you do that do you look at like this running career and go okay I'm gonna get to be X amount of age I want to accomplish a certain amount of things and then stop or is it just life ya life this is life yeah the cool part about this running stuff I mean you alluded to it earlier but people in their 40s and 50s and 60s they're doing these races and still enjoying the trails and I hope to I hope to still be doing it one in 20 years and

85:3230 years my friend Ari his dad who is a Holocaust survivor who's 80 years old just ran a marathon in six hours Wow fucking's that's amazing good I mean come on I can't run a marathon six hours I know Burt can't that fat sorry Bren I love you inside joke that's a total inside joke but his Ari's dad it's like how does how does one do that how's an 80 year old man run a marathon in six hours that's insane that's cool yeah it's just grinding yeah I mean what is the oldest competitor that you guys had in that race um 69 I think Wow yeah how'd they do he finished yeah it's amazing 69 years old and he runs 238 miles I think he had something he's 69 years old and it was like his 68th 100-plus mile race he'd ever done or something crazy like that at that age you're on borrowed time why not just burn that the wick just throw that candle in the volcano yeah or maybe he's making more time he

86:52might be could be Rhonda Patrick dr. Rhonda Patrick who's this brilliant moment of Adam fat on the podcast a few times posted something on Twitter just a couple of days ago that a regular rigorous physical exercise can expand lowers the the biological age by as much as nine years Wow was it like you find that yeah it's some crazy study they did on extend it mean it just makes sense any rigorous exercise yeah here it goes physical exercise reduces cancer incidences lower the race of recurrence in hibbett stumer growth no it's one that I retweeted it was here it is high-intensity exercise delayed biological aging by nine years as measured by telomere length so it's like scientific analysis of your telomeres that's amazing so like what nine years every time you no no no but I mean like people who are really exercising as I say if you you're 39 yeah your telomeres

87:54results showed that regular activity accounted for significantly longer telomeres and US adults the longer telomeres found an act of adults accounted for nine years of reduced cellular age regular physical exercise activity reduces disease risk possibly due to the preservation of telomeres Wow so that's an interesting thing because for the long time telomeres are nucleoprotein caps positioned at the end of chromosomes and aging causes telomeres to shorten significantly and results in gradual cell deterioration and that makes sense because you see people that don't exercise and they get older and they look like as opposed to someone who does exercise and they'll stand right next to when you go whoa there's those two people the same age that's crazy that's cool that they're studying that it'll be interesting to see like how that unfolds as they learn more it makes sense right you're

88:44requiring more of your body your body has to maintain this much higher work rate than the average person right yeah that's cool how much sleep do you get at night a normal night normal probably seven or eight hours it's just normal stuff yeah like you're not you not doing anything crazy no other than the actual accomplishment physically like you're not doing anything crazy outside of it I don't think so do you get massages no no really do you wear those crazy pants what are those those crazy pants that smoosh your legs and those the cam they send them to me and I send them to him the compression massage your legs oh you put a ball to you they send it to me I didn't even ask for them are they like the big boots the other pants Norma tech yeah Norma tech they're supposed to be the no yeah pull up a video of that Norma tech system they sent it to me and I sent it to cam see if you find cams

89:41Instagram video I think he's got him using it but you climb into that thing and it massages your leg it says pulse leg recovery system people swear by these water filter is that error question it's a good question it doesn't show up but that could be cool no water all right now have you done cryotherapy no oh you want to do it today right on the street what is it what does that involve exactly it involves 240 degrees below zero for three minutes oh geez hey stand in there it's awesome yeah come out you feel fantastic huh if you want to do it we could do it areas oh that's cool so that's him at a place doing it but I you know he has one at home now that I sent them they sent me one I don't even ask for I don't know how they got my address or anything did you try it no no no athlete using it to you like LeBron James uses it mm I got your training it looks badass there's all these

90:47different methods of recovery but court you don't need you guys keep using it do that when you're running along like the long did you looks like a certain playlist over and over and over again like do you hate certain songs now that you listen to them for 60 hours straight or no headphones and know I used music occasionally I didn't use it for the entire thing I probably did a couple hours with music the first day and maybe a couple hours of music the second day just like iPod I mean yeah come on I need it back I'm boarded yeah yeah or like I want to change it up a bit yeah so most the time when you're training do you you use music or no I don't often use music some days I will but especially out on trails I mean we just talked about all these animals that can kill you then I'm not using music right if you don't hear the rattle though right right or like

91:42the wings flapping behind your head scalping no no do they test you guys for drugs occasionally some races have that this one did not this one didn't so you could be jacked up to the gills how many people how many think people you think were juiced up to the gills and I still couldn't beat you that's one at this race no one will do shut up there's someone else no way there's one person who's on EPO for sure I won't believe it I believe it one person it hasn't like none of that stuff is like filtering into the trail running scene I mean there was zero dollar prize on the lines I understand that why is someone gonna EPO for that I know what you're saying and it's very logical you're right but there was actually an article that was written about Silicon Valley CEOs that were taking EPO and doing triathlons and marathon races and they were taking these endurance drugs he's

92:40performance-enhancing drugs just for I mean just to try to up their performance in these amateur events that it's a big thing that it's a very common thing lately interesting yeah I would I mean I don't even know where the they get it yeah I don't know what all that would involve but I like to think better of the of the trail running community and that people are pushing just their natural limits without without seeing what the what any sort of drug regimen I would like to think better of them too yeah but I just I'm because of the UFC I've seen so many people know I've had a drug test that I didn't think I liked that guy Wow huh I just did take Abbott fail No thank you it's all beer he was my guy he's your guy he's uh he was in anywhere anytime guy yeah he'd fight anybody he would hop off a barstool and beat the out of people we used to rent like for for the videos from

93:39blockbuster I was involved those were awesome no no I go J no fishhooking but there was probably definitely dudes you thought that were on steroids I mean I don't know if he ever took anything but there's a lot of people that have took things yeah you could take whatever you wanted and there was no drug testing right there early days but you know I it's it's like how much does that help and how much how much is especially when it comes to trail running like what you're doing is first of all you're living at elevation which is phenomenal right then you're also just constantly putting in the work and grinding and it's a full-time job now and you're obviously a special athlete when it comes to your ability to focus and you went blind lady I mean people are you kept running you know so there's no drugs out there they can fix that there's no does not show yeah there's

94:37nothing that's gonna give you that kind of mental fortitude to push past blindness right and they're getting better about I mean more and more trail races are starting to implement drug testing just to try and like cut it out before it even becomes a thing that's smart yeah yeah yeah weed out all the performance-enhancing stuff but you know there's gonna be there's a line right like what what do you test for and what don't you test for all right what's okay you know multivitamins are okay all right what about you know there's some weird stuff that will take you know some stuff from GNC right you know we're having issues with that in the UFC where guys take just over-the-counter stuff at GNC and it turns out it actually a steroids in it yeah apparently it's super common that these you know all these muscle building this and really stack that right you know a lot of that

95:30stuff is they literally put performance-enhancing drugs in them right which is why they work so then it's just your job as an athlete to know what's on the ingredient list and is it okay yeah you saw actually has a list of things that have tested positive for steroids and it is crazy I had Jeff Novitzky on who was the head of you saada and now works for the UFC's Drug Enforcement program trying to catch people cheating and we pulled up the USANA website and your jaw drops like wow yeah you're buying from just regular yeah mom-and-pop vitamin store that's crazy steroids in them yeah the Newton but you just take a multivitamin that's it yeah just a women's multivitamin oh woman's multi yeah yeah is there a difference no I don't know it's probably a marketing scheme probably right yeah and do you think that there's anything that you could take that would possibly enhance

96:32your performance in any way I mean Nazira that's legal yeah I don't think so I mean is there what is is there something that other runners rely on is there something that like you hear people talk about like vitamins or supplements or anything no I think more the conversation is always about like the diets and like changing up what you eat or what you what food groups you live in and all that is or what I hear talk about and I'm just not interested in cutting out carbs or cutting out fat like I want it all so yeah that's one of the guys who ran he ran a hundred miles what does this gentleman's name he's actually emailed me he ran a hundred miles faster than anybody ever and he's on some fat burning diet he's on one of those was that Kido yeah he's on a ketogenic diet okay and his whole his name Zack bitter yeah yeah and you know that guy is yeah yeah he is uh he he won

97:36there is yep yeah he eats almost no carbs Oh carbs are my favorite well you brought up something too that I think is really important that really need can't be stressed enough is that everybody's bodies different yeah it really is he ran a hundred miles in 11 hours 40 minutes and 55 seconds what a monster yeah that's on a quarter-mile track six and a half marathons that is insane 402 laps on a track Jesus Christ that's awesome yeah he's a really great athlete yes that's a monster that's insane what's incredible that he can do this with almost no carbs right that right you just not interested in trying that no I mean I don't I don't see a need for it I should you yeah yeah I want to I'm not saying they aren't enjoying life but the things that I enjoy involve just not worrying about it yeah like do you regulate your sugar intake it all know if you've run as much as you run you

98:42don't have to think about your diet at all right I don't I mean maybe that could be one of the lego pieces that I try and fine-tune but it's not on my to-do list for the near future yeah I mean again it's like if it ain't broke don't fix it right what if someone like comes creeping up like real close to you Courtney someone's starting to like you're you're finishing and they're finished in like a couple minutes behind ya and you're like wow I might need to kick in the afterburner is that when you would go to a nutritionist or tighten up your diet yeah I mean there's plenty of people who beat me and I I'm just trying to work harder like train more train better get stronger especially like those core muscles and like what kind of exercise do you do for your core just like the normal planks and and things of that nature and yeah it doesn't that doesn't motivate me to change my diet people

99:40beating me more than that that just is like okay you need to train harder you need to like put in more work for this but don't you think that the fuel that you use in your body obviously me giving you any advice is ridiculous no don't you think that the fuel that goes in your body has some sort of an effect on your performance I mean it must surely surely but I also just want to live life and enjoy it you know like I don't want to be counting how many kill pieces I'm eating well I mean obviously your enthusiasm is a huge part of your success and your mental state I think it can't it can be argued at all that that's not a huge part of your success then and just to keep enjoying your life and living the way you're living perhaps fuels that mental state yeah I mean I'm thinking they're all intertwined but who knows you know what things could be tweaked to make it better job well I

100:42don't know you know I mean it's all that uh the Jack Nicholson in the shining you know too much work no play makes Jack a dull boy right yeah yeah is it John or Jack who's he and the movie was Jack - Johnny Johnny a dull boy right yeah here's Johnny that's right that's right yeah I mean I wonder if like maybe the just the ultimate grind of discipline and no reward is just not it's not beneficial to performance that there's some sort of a balance that must be achieved yeah enjoying yourself and being enthusiastic and appreciative and also disciplined yeah I think a good balance of all that is important well listen Courtney thank you so much for being here you are an inspiration and I'm so blown away by what you've managed to do and I can't wait to see what you can do in the future and if you really can run 500 miles if you do 500 miles you got to come back in here we

101:40got to talk oh you better just be out on the course with a foam finger real estate whatever you need thank you thank you for having me and everybody tell people how they can get a hold of you on Twitter it's different than Instagram instagrams Courtney do Walter instagrams Courtney do Walter Twitter's Court do altar and DA you wal ter corrects whoever's got Kourtney do Walter on Twitter give it up come on that's ridiculous give it to her cuz they got it right right after you won right that's when they did it yeah some weird series of events led to a Twitter being made didn't they say they were gonna give it to you they said they were gonna give it yeah yeah okay make that happen thank you so much Courtney thank you