Trump vs Harvard, Nvidia export controls, how DEI killed Hollywood with Tim Dillon
Guests: Tim Dillon
Full transcript · Read the full conversation in order, with its original context.
Contents6 chapters
§01The Besties welcome Tim Dillon!§02Nvidia H20 export controls, the China workaround, plausible deniability by chipmakers selling to China-linked entities§03Trump vs. Harvard: Why the White House is threatening to take Harvard's tax-exempt status away§04Hollywood's DEI facade, thoughts on AI, and more§05Celebrity Jeopardy update: Friedberg is heading to the finals!§06Science Corner: Mitochondrial Therapy§01The Besties welcome Tim Dillon!
Alright, everybody. Welcome back to the number one podcast in the world, the all in podcast. After a triumphant week last week, we had an amazing episode. Thanks to Larry Summers and Ezra Klein for joining us for the great tariff debate number four episode in the world last week. And, man, we got a banger ready for you today.
Before I get to that, couple of quick plugs. Did you
call the DNC to clean up the roadkill, Jason?
I'm an independent, folks. Just I know these guys keep trying to pin me
as a telegraph.
I'm an independent critical thinker for life, but I do think Ezra is got a
little PTSD. I haven't heard
from that.
Have a roadkill cleanup crew?
You know, it's amazing. You have an episode like that where I thought it'd make great progress on dealing with those issues and and came to some consensus at the end. And then every single person universally, if they're on the right, oh my god. Saxon, Chamath destroyed them. If they're on the left, the left's position was, oh my god.
Saxon, Chamath finally got destroyed. Anyway, you decide for yourself. We're just here to talk about the most important news stories. And all in sum
I think Chamath is right. I think they sent the same crew that cleans up the armadillos on the Okay.
The armadillos.
Alrighty. Here we go. September
in Los
armadillos left lying on the side of the road.
Alright. Okay.
All in Summit is going into its fourth year, yada yada. September. Apply. Allin.com/summit.
Pronouns everywhere. Pronouns everywhere on the highway, Jason. Pronouns everywhere. Can I can
who's getting worse?
People just trying to clean up the pronouns. The shovels weren't big enough for all the pronouns.
Freiburg was on Jeopardy again, Celebrity Jeopardy! And I don't wanna ruin it for you, but he had an amazing comeback victory. But really excited to have on the program today one of your favorites. He was on the show pre election.
One of my favorites.
Robert F. Kennedy is with us again. RFK, how are you doing? I love the glasses. You're gonna make America healthy again, and welcome to the program RFK junior.
We found out that autism is caused mainly by this show, and we're gonna have to take action. We've started to look at the different causes, but we're thinking it is the debate between Ezra Klein and Larry Summers that is the real villain
Tremendous. Everybody knows RFK is gonna do a great job. He's a little bit weird, but wife is a smokeshow. I mean, an incredible wife, RFK junior. Incredible.
Not as good.
Not as good. Okay. Well, I'm trying to land it. Yeah. What am I supposed to do?
I'm up against a professional.
Know? Can you welcome to the moderate
so that Timmy be comedian. Don't talk over me. Okay? Just you you you just sit sit down, Shimab.
Can you do what you did last week?
Three You
do what you did
last week.
What's that? What's that moderate for narcissists who all wanna add one more thing?
Let the experts talk.
Yes. Of course.
Hangs out. Here comes Zach.
Why can't I talk? Why can't I talk? And every so much
going on. Can you please pass the ball? Just pass the ball.
Let's go. Let's pass the ball, Gala.
Let's welcome our guest, Tim Dillon. Shoot. He's an incredibly funny comedian. He has a new special, I'm Your Mother on Netflix. He's the host of the award winning, now in its tenth year.
Yes.
Emmy winning, award winning. He's got the Emmy. He's got the Tony. He's still gotta get the Grammy and the Oscar. The one, the only Tim Dillon of the Tim Dillon Show podcast.
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I feel like I'm having a Zoom meeting with Doge to prove what I've done in the last week. This is what by the way, this is the last thing someone at the EPA sees. It's just these four guys.
They're just staring at a guy like Chamath going, well, we tested some soil. I think we got those numbers back. That's what it that's what it feels like here. I feel like I'm on trial just trying to justify my stupid job.
Would you like eight months severance, or would you like to be fired today? Which would you prefer today? You have both options on the table.
It would have been very funny if we actually were just if if as soon as Tim said that, we had Steve Davis pop on.
Yeah. Well,
interestingly, I don't wanna speak out of school or embarrass our guests, but Tim was supposed to join us in February. Yes. And like the star he is, as I mentioned, he's got the Emmy, he's got the Tony, still working on the Oscar and the Grammy. He was supposed to be with us and he canceled last minute, and then we found out why. He ditched us to spend the day with Steve Bannon and going to
the Steve
Bannon podcast, here they are.
That's true. What is this?
Look at that. That's Steve Bannon and Timmy. They were they were
23 and me, and they didn't tell me my ethnicity, but the only thing that came back was they said that Steve Bannon was my father.
Yes. And here they are on the cyclone in Brooklyn. Beautiful. They went out to Little Italy. Little Italy here.
See By the way,
they've done a pretty decent job.
Wrapping up with a little book or, I mean, maybe a little bit more in there. I don't know. I mean, do you think Bannon is four twenty friendly? You tell us, Timmy.
I think anything I I mean, Bannon would tell you if we could start farming marijuana in America and the American working class could share in the profits, I think he'd be four twenty friendly.
He would be four twenty finally four twenty friendly.
Taiwanese marijuana, though. Nothing you know, it's gotta be American.
Can I Absolutely? Can I give a quick shout out, which is ten months ago, Tim Dillon won on the Tucker Carlson show? I think the title is called Disney Boomers and the Creepy Corporations That Pretend to Love You. Really one of the best pieces of content I watched all of last year. Nick, you should put the link in the show notes.
Thank you.
It's incredible.
Like Thank you.
The whole thing end to end, two hours well spent. I would encourage everybody to watch it. It's timeless content, actually. Real good cultural observation at the moment. It's really good.
Two white guys talking in a in a in a garage in Maine.
Seems He has a certain way.
You know, I I went to and did it there. And he has a way of just kind of, like, slipping you into this state of comfort. All of a sudden, I just started talking about all the money I'd lost.
He's great. He's great at it. Where is this guy from?
It was GHB.
He's great at it. It's like Megan Kelly's great at it too. I just did her thing, and, you know, she does it at her house. And I I just show up, and she's sitting behind the desk, and she goes, hi. And you sit down, and you're and then she goes, so your mother's a schizophrenic.
Like, immediately, you start crying to Megyn Kelly. They're just good. They know what they're doing.
They know what they're doing.
Let's get to the docket. H twenties banned. The US and China trade war has been escalating. On Monday, the White House informed NVIDIA that they were putting an indefinite export restriction on NVIDIA's h 20 chips to China. And so in this filing, NVIDIA said it expects a $5,500,000,000 hit to the quarterly earnings.
§02Nvidia H20 export controls, the China workaround, plausible deniability by chipmakers selling to China-linked entities
Stock dropped 6%. For those of you who don't know, h 20 is essentially the weaker version of the h 100. It was designed actually to comply with, these export restrictions on AI chips and allow them, NVIDIA, to sell something into China. NVIDIA CEO CEO Jensen Huang was visiting China today. He told Chinese state media quote, the China market is very important to us, yada yada.
Saks, hey, you're here. I think you got some official information for us on this. What's the story here? Wasn't this supposed to be the chip that was made for China?
In a sense, I mean, there is a long history to this.
Okay.
So first of all, just to be clear, we're not talking about tariffs, we're talking about export controls. And the export controls are designed to prevent certain sensitive technologies, technologies that could have a dual use potential military as well as consumer application from going to China. And this goes all the way back to 2019. The first Trump administration placed a ban on extreme ultraviolet lithography equipment going to China. This is the key technology in the printing of transistors on the silicon wafer in the semiconductor manufacturing process.
And there's only one company in the world that makes these machines. They cost like $200,000,000 It's called ASML. It's a company in The Netherlands. In any event, the first Trump administration prevented these machines from going to China, which I think in hindsight was a really far sighted decision. Because if it weren't for that, China might today be dominating global manufacturing of semiconductors.
And their inability to get that sort of lithography equipment, I think, definitely put a dent in their plans. Subsequent to that, in 2022, the Biden administration started adding leading edge chips to the export control list, like you said, the H100. NVIDIA then designed a new chip that was basically a version of the H100, but they reduced the amount of FLOPs or computational power just below the threshold so they could continue selling to China. That was called the H800. The Biden administration then added the H800 to the export control list in 2023.
So Nvidia developed the H20, which again is kind of like a NERF version of the H100. This has less computational power. I think the issue is that FLOPS isn't the only criteria by which you can measure the power of a chip. There's also now memory bandwidth. And in the new paradigm of reinforcement learning and test time compute, memory bandwidth actually matters more than the amount of FLOPs.
And if you look at the memory bandwidth on the H20, it actually has 20% more memory bandwidth than the H100. So I think there's a view that this chip is just frankly too good. And the response I'd have to people who don't think we should be restricting this is, are you against export controls in general, or you just think that we're drawing the line in the wrong place here? Because, you know, I've heard folks like our friends like Bill Gurley and so forth say that
Yeah. Was about to, yeah, pull
That we're making a mistake. But I think the question for those people is, would you sell them everything? I mean, if China wanted to buy the latest NVIDIA chip, the GB 200, would you sell that to them? Would you sell them
Well, yeah.
Million of those? Would you sell them 5,000,000 if they're willing to pay a premium? It seems to me that at some point, you have to say that some technologies are just too sensitive to be sold to China. And so then the question is just are you drawing the line in the right place?
Let me bring Freiburg in on that. Freiburg friends of the pod like Gavin Baker said these tariffs and these type of bans are gonna essentially guarantee that America will lose AI because, and Gurley as well has this position, that we're now gonna make China force them to make their own chips. Necessity will be the mother invention and it's gonna escalate and we'd be better off just selling them these instead of the latest ones. What's your take on that, you know, this will be
the Well, I think this is
the critical for them to build their own NVIDIA.
It's an important question. Last year, China announced and began a $37,000,000,000 investment in developing their own three nanometer, Chimp technology. So, you know, the EUV lithography systems that Sax is referencing, require these wavelengths of light at about 13 and a half nanometer, which is you know, the the previous technology was, like, 200 plus nanometer. So it's very, very small wavelengths of light that you have to be able to manipulate very in a very kind of discrete way to print circuits that are just three nanometer scale. And so, it turns out that last year, China made a claim that this investment they had made was starting to pay off, and they had developed their own EUV system.
And their big semiconductor company is called the Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation or SMIC in China. They launched a a chip, a seven nanometer chip with Huawei in their Mate 60 Pro, which is sort of like their iPhone competitor in China. And so they're proclaiming that they've already got this EUV technology. From what I understand, and Sax would know better than I, it sounds like there was a lot of reverse engineering and workaround of existing technology in order to deliver that system. But they may now already be investing in and developing their own system.
So, JCAL, I think they're doing it either way. Think that they're going to invest and build their own EUV and chip manufacturing capacity either way. And the question is, does this slow them down or limit their ability on the application or the AI layer to kind of be held back for some
very time?
Accelerates it because they have no choice but to accelerate their commitment to it. So, Tim, you've been talking about these EUV technologies and the 200 nanometer ones.
It's my entire it's my entire special special.
It's a
little crazy that you'd ripped me off like this. Entire special is about is about the lithograph.
Yeah.
And that's that's the hour that I do. You know, I'm of the mind if you give a man a chip, he makes one semiconductor or a few. But if you teach a man to make a chip, he makes multiple semiconductors and invades Taiwan. So that's where I am with this. You know?
Yeah. It's Feels like yeah. Think we should keep them dependent. Keep selling it to
them. Yes.
Keep selling it to them. Treat it like Turkish.
How this works. You know? If if somebody becomes addicted to the good stuff, then they come back. You don't wanna give them too much.
And you hide a little you you backdoor the technology with a a little surveillance and stuff, so have some fun.
Have some fun. You know, that's been done before. Abs I sure. Backdoors all the time.
Backdoors technology, a little surveillance capability. You slip it in there.
Yeah. Shammoth, what's your what's your thoughts coming around the horn here? You were sort of talking about, I think, publicly, and obviously, you've got Grok, and so you're you're you're you're in the space with chips. Does this net net, end of the day, slow them down or slow them down short term, speed them up long term?
I think that the technology that they need is extremely nontrivial, and I do think that it actually slows them down quite a bit if they don't have access to it. Can I just take a step back and up level this? I think it was in 2017, the State Council of China published this plan, and they were incredibly transparent and honest. They said, this plan is for China to become a global leader in AI by 02/1930. Okay?
And it said so this is in 2017. And they said by 2020, we need to have made iconic advances. By 2025, we should be a major engine of the industry. And by 2030, they should occupy the commanding heights, they said, in AI tech. Okay.
So why is that important? To be honest with you, I think the real problem that we have is that NVIDIA is not doing what is in the best interest of The United States. Oh. David mentioned this. When The US banned the sale of the top end GPUs, the a 100 and the h 100, they quickly introduced the a 800 and h 800.
What does that mean? Well, all it was was just a chip that was basically the same. It slightly reduced the data transfer speed so that it went under the export control threshold, but it was still really usable. Then late last year, they introduced this thing called this H20 that was explicitly designed for China and to be compliant with US rules at the time, which again gives these guys substantial performance. Okay.
So what do you have? You have a twenty seventeen plan that they've been executing against, which is to say we wanna dominate this space. And you have an American company that has been working around the guidelines at every turn to try to land silicon into the hands of China. So then you would say, well, maybe there's not that much going into China. Nick, can you just throw up the chart that I sent you about NVIDIA's revenue composition?
So let's just call a spade a spade, guys. I think we can all do the math. About 47% of all of NVIDIA's revenue goes to China and Chinese related countries. And I think when you peel back this onion, I think what you will find is a whole raft of companies that were stood up to buy these Nvidia GPUs to essentially act as a way station for China. And I think that is the big problem because it doesn't mean that it was just these chips that David and his colleagues put on an export control list.
It was every kind of chip. And now it explains every single time we have an advance in The United States, how is it that Alibaba shows up with something incredible, DeepSeek shows up with something better? At every turn and at every step of AI, they are at the same rate or one step ahead. And I suspect it's because that these chips are being used in very sophisticated ways behind the scenes. And I think that's the issue that we need to address.
Just to be clear, the insight you have here, the prediction is people are selling these to Taiwan. They're selling them in Singapore. I think it's more Hong Kong. I think it's a group that are zipping them over to China Mainland or letting them use them.
I don't know if you saw, but I I believe there was a report that there was a couple Singaporeans that were arrested for actually trying to bring the chips into China. I don't think it's necessarily that. I think what happens is you have some entity that springs up, you know, Corporation. AcmeCorp.com. They show up in Bhutan or Cambodia or Vietnam or Singapore, and they provide a PO, a purchase order to Nvidia, three hundred, five hundred, eight hundred million dollars, what do you think Nvidia is gonna do?
They're gonna think, well, this is a legitimate Singaporean entity. I'm gonna sell them the chips, whatever they want. It checks all the boxes and they look away. And what we need to now figure out is what happens once those chips get delivered. It is the only explanation for this.
You don't have this requirement for this number of GPUs for those end markets. There is only one end market.
That's an explosive allegation. Sax, what do you think of this theory more broadly?
I think it it is a fact that there have been both legal and illegal attempts to evade The US export controls. That is true, and there's a number of companies that have done it. For example, last year there was a case where TSMC was discovered to have produced something like 3,000,000 chips that went into the Huawei Ascend nine ten C chips. I think there's like 3,000,000 dyes or something that went into the Huawei Ascend chips. And I think they're being fined for that.
And again, this is all public information. Now they claimed that they thought it was for a company called, I think, SoftCo. It's basically a Bitcoin, like ASICs company. But nonetheless, this did happen. So there have been attempts to set up shell companies to circumvent the export controls, and it is a very big problem.
Tim, what what's your what do you think more broadly about what Trump is doing with this trade war in China? Any takes on China, Taiwan, and just how Americans should look at, hey. Maybe we have to buy some more high quality products. Maybe we don't get things on TIMU as cheap with these, you know, $850 exemptions, etcetera.
I think roughly Trump's instincts are correct. I think the the way that the tariffs rolled out seem to be incredibly chaotic. I think that's a huge problem with a lot of what the Trump administration does. They seem to have the correct instincts, but you they have, like, a very sloppy rollout. Right?
Like, everything's a hard launch. Everything's incredibly I don't know that things are messaged the right way. The whole Doge thing was is a little bit of a fiasco because the messaging seemed off. Like, nobody was out really talking about what they were doing and why they were doing it. You know, I don't know how well this works.
You know? I mean, you have a very integrated global economy. You guys know more about that than I do. Are you able to unwind that? And if you do, you have to unwind it in certain areas and certain areas you're gonna have to allow to probably remain relatively stable and consistent.
Right? I mean, if you listen to Ray Dalio, he talks about, like, a disaster coming for with monetary policy. Right? The whole unwinding of these economic and political structures kinda happening at once. I don't know.
I think I think Americans do overconsume a lot of crap. I think cheap goods aren't necessarily the highest organizing principle of a life. I think people have been sold the idea that cheap goods are more important than having a stable functioning job and family. I think the gig economy has been sold to Americans as a way to offer them freedom and and really in chaos at the expense of the stability that used to come with, you know, a job with benefits that you stayed in for or or you know? But the other component to that is, you know, we we have to make sure that, like, you know, we don't have skyrocketing prices that completely decimate people either.
So I think you need to find a balance. I wanna see my friends work in factories. I want them to get hurt. I want to release the safety standards. I want child labor.
Children are terrorists, many of them. Yeah. They start fights in malls. There's they have flash mobs. They run around Chicago trying to kill people that are just trying to have shellfish towers on the river.
So yes, children should work. My friend should work in a plastics factory. DoorDash is a horrible job. You lose a finger at a factory, it's a story. Delivering burritos is a hell.
Driving Uber, all these horrible degrading things we make people do.
Yes.
And then tell them it's great. And then we look you know, you should destigmatize being an electrician, a plumber, a contractor, all these things that when I was told you know, when I was growing up, they point to a guy doing construction and go, you're gonna do that if you don't do your homework. And then the people that did their homework are are all, you know, bankrupt, and that construction guy, you know, is
Is killing
is killing it. He's doing pretty well. And so what? He went to January 6. He went there peacefully.
But the whole thing is like, I think you need to figure out, you know, how to kinda reintroduce the idea that this gig economy where people surf from one unfulfilling nightmare to the next should be rethought. Yeah.
Yes. Better to be in a factory losing a finger. Can I ask the question? Who who
in in in David's estimation, when you're talking about these companies that are set up to get these chips that evade export controls, you think is that the Chinese government doing that? Is that an intelligence agency doing that? Who would be setting those companies up? Is it people that are interested purely in profit and that are then selling those chips? That's super interesting.
Well, I think you have to ask the question, qui bono. I mean, who benefits? Right. I think clearly the shell companies, the front companies are set up by either the Chinese government or entities in China to evade the export controls because ultimately they want the chips. However, I think there is also a problem that Lenin described as the capitalists will sell us the rope with which to hang themselves.
And I do think there are a lot of Western companies that will look the other way or turn a blind eye and just haven't been enforcing the rules as religiously as they should because it's profitable not to. And this is where I do think that the US government has to be pretty tough. I mean, if we're gonna have export controls in the first place, I know there's some people who don't think we should have them, but I do. I mean, I don't think we should let China have access to our leading edge AI technology. We have to make sure that the export controls are effective.
And that means there has to be some cracking down in order to make that happen. Part of the crackdown is we have to define the boundary lines in a more effective way with fewer loopholes so that companies can't legally take advantage of those loopholes. But also, we're gonna need more monitoring, more inspection, and more enforcement. And this is one of the few areas of the government that I actually think needs more resources. I think that Elon and Doge have identified many areas of the government that are massively overstaffed.
But this is one area, there's an agency inside the Department of Commerce called BIS that actually has to do all of this monitoring and inspections and enforcement. And I I actually think they're understaffed relative to the importance of this particular task.
Let's have a thought starter for a second, guys. Do you guys think that if 47% of all of the AI capability and horsepower is being shipped to three Asian countries, where do you think the apps that require that amount of horsepower live? Is there a cursor of Bhutan that we did not know? Is there a great shopping app in Cambodia that's come out of nowhere that's AI powered? I think the answer is no.
So we already know what the answer is. The question is, this is a case where you have plausible deniability. Right? I sell something to a Singaporean registered company. Plausible deniability.
What what am I supposed to do? You can't expect me to audit it. I think that's what NVIDIA's answer will be to this question. But what is the real expectation? Let's flip it on its head.
Last week, China, in retaliation for tariffs, constrained the supply of rare earths outside of China, right, leaving China. You had certain factory lines that just had to stop on a dime. Right? So they're clearly in a position to understand their supply chain, who benefits or who doesn't benefit and can be hurt by constraining supply, and they're able to affect that. At a minimum, The United States should have a mechanism to understand it.
Whether they do it or not should be up to, you know, powers that be that are bigger than than the four of us or the five of us. But that that's my point, which is that it is implausible that if you did one or two layers of work, you would not find that most of this traffic is being used by Chinese organizations. That may be okay, and that's a decision that the United States government should make, but it's something that that should be disclosed to them somehow. And I think if you look at the composition of revenue for NVIDIA, it is inconceivable that there's a bunch of Asian AI apps that are just crushing it so hard. No.
No. I mean, it's so obvious what's happening there. I think we yeah. I we don't need to guess. Taiwan and Vietnam do not have the need for that many domestically.
They're obviously flipping them to someone. Right? It's a it's a it's a given some percentage of those are being resold. Hey, Freeburg. You were on Jeopardy.
Freeburg went to the next round.
Wait. This is the outro to that?
I wanted to get Tim in on on the on the Jeopardy thing.
You should've done, like, a more broadly accessible topic like Harvard.
Chips are great. I like the chips.
You like that,
Tim? I learned something. The plausible deniability is interesting. It's like the banks that dealt with Jeffrey Epstein, and I know it's a sore topic because he was the fifth man on this show, an RIP, and we miss him. But he has never been the But be honest, he would have been phenomenal on the show.
Let's just say he would been good on their show. Yeah. And he would have been good on the show, but that was a very interesting topic. I've never been on a podcast where a topic's been handled, and I'm gonna go on Joe Rogan tomorrow and just say everything Chamoff just said. Gonna go I'm gonna what did he say?
Can we level this up or something?
Can we
high level this? Let's take yeah. We're leveling
up level. Up level.
Can we up level? Yeah. That's interesting. I say that at Chili's. I go, can we up level this for
a minute?
Yes. $1.99 extra if
you want the
if you want
the extra jalapenos, Tim.
So what's going on? Harvard? Are we selling that to China? I'm for that.
Yes. Well, there's been a Donnie book, if you will, Tim.
Yeah. Between Trump and Harvard. Smart to buy Harvard.
Yeah. They know it's a scam.
That's a good point.
Here we go. I just spoken like a true Stanford guy. On March 31, '3 federal agencies announced they were reviewing 9,000,000,000, 9 billion in multiyear federal grants and $256,000,000 in contracts that went to Harvard, three agencies, education health, and the GSA. This past Friday, April 11, the group sent a letter to Harvard's president and the head of Harvard Corporation, laid out a series of changes. The White House is demanding merit based hiring and admissions, staff, admissions students, all that good stuff.
§03Trump vs. Harvard: Why the White House is threatening to take Harvard's tax-exempt status away
Cancel all your DEI programs. No more DIE. Reform international admissions. No more admitting students that are, quote, hostile to American values. Increase the different viewpoints on diversity across all departments and abolish admission practices that served as an ideological litmus test.
Harvard's president, Alan Garber, said he would not comply. Later that day, the White House responded by freezing 2,200,000,000.0 in grants, 60,000,000 in contracts. They now wanna take away the White House, the tax exempt status of Harvard, which would be absolutely insane. It's happened actually once before nineteen seventies. Bob Jones University in South Carolina was doing outwardly racist stuff.
And the IRS, according to the CNN, is looking into this. Your thoughts, Shama.
Well, it's more than the IRS is looking into it. They're thinking of revoking their tax exempt status. Yeah. How about I tee this up slightly differently?
Tim, you
brought up something that I think is really important, which is what is the American dream for all these people that are cascading between half jobs and half measures?
That's right.
That's a really important question. And right now, if you look at the top of the educational hierarchy, Harvard, what have we seen over the last few years? They are at the absolute bottom of the rankings with respect to free speech. They have lost all of these cases all the way up to the Supreme Court about how they do admissions. Harvard doesn't just have a front door.
It's got a bunch of side doors, got a bunch of back doors, and they discriminate. And what is the opposite of discrimination? It's meritocracy. And I think with twenty plus years of discrimination, what Harvard did was made it fashionable for other schools to discriminate. And if you compound that for twenty years, it doesn't just touch the universities.
It starts to touch the high schools and the middle schools. Where we live, at the beginning of COVID, we had some morons at the board of education decide to take away AP calculus and AP math because it made people feel bad. It's absolutely ridiculous. And then we pound these kids with ADHD pills, and what happens is what you described, Tim. So what is the point of fixing Harvard?
It's really important because the opposite of what they do, what they do is discriminate, is a meritocracy. And we need to make that fashionable again. And the biggest reason goes back to, again, I'll just go back to the the chip conversation. The Chinese are so well organized. If you look at the Chinese and the Indians together, those are 2,500,000,000 people swimming in a meritocratic soup from the day they're born.
That's the only way they climb out, and it's eat or be eaten. And then when they graduate from an education system that is purely meritocratic, you know what they do? They enter a workforce that's also meritocratic. So it's compounded into their psyche that you just have to perform. Whereas what we do is we do all of these fake things that make people feel really bad about themselves.
They look at other people that think that shouldn't deserve to be in places get places. And so we have to turn that tide. And so whatever it takes, the most severe and extreme measures must be undertaken to fix this. That's my point of view.
Tim, your thoughts on, Trump wanting to take away the nonprofit
stance of Harvey. Went to one of these encampments during the protests. I wanted to see it for myself to see what was going on. I do I I did like there was a lot of you'd see a non binary Asian dressed up like a Hamas, and I think that's fun. I think it's college.
So I think that people are going to express views that are often, you know, probably anti American. I don't think we can you can't shield yourself from that. I don't I don't like deporting people that are, you know, critical of Israel, for example, unless they've committed crimes and you can provide they're providing material support. You know, if you can prove they're providing
Due process.
Due process. Well, you need to provide you know, if they're providing material support to Hamas or something like that, that's a different story. But if they're here on a legal resident visa, they should be allowed the space to, you know, express themselves as any other American citizen would. Now that being said, it is impossible to look at higher education in America right now and not be embarrassed. Truly.
Truly. The word is embarrassment. These should be the shining example of, as Shamatha was saying, institutions that prepare people for the real world, but what they really are, they've all been captured in this quasi religious cult of insanity where people are elevating different types of characteristics outside of intelligence and merit as the most important things to be considered for admission, you know, to to be given academic achievements and things like this. It's kind of embarrassing. And I think if these institutions are gonna follow that path, they're gonna have to live and die on their own.
They're not gonna be able to be taxpayer subsidized and funded. They have massive endowments from multibillionaires whose families all go. But like Tremaz said, they do engage in discrimination. And and frankly, you know, again, I'm not for drawing ideological lines, and I'm a big free speech guy, but I do think that you don't find much ideological diversity on any of those campuses, certainly not in the faculties at all. And it doesn't prepare anybody for a world, and all the politics are are very aesthetic.
Meaning, all these people are out there, you know, showing off, exhibiting their virtue. But at the end of the day, they're still getting a very cushy internship and a nice job. And, you know, they're going to summer in Martha's Vineyard. You know, for example, I was lucky enough to go to Kennedy Compound this summer. I went sailing with their family and they're really great kids.
A lot
of the
kids in there On
frontier or the Rock? Where are they?
No. They're on, you know, Hyannis, whatever, the famous And I went there and a lot of young kids RFK's kids are young. They went to Harvard, and a lot of these Harvard kids are all good kids. But, you know, some of them were very interesting. Right?
Because they they said to me, they said, you own a house in the Hamptons. I said, yeah. They go, do you ever go out during the winter? I go, yeah. Sometimes I do.
Quiet, nice. You could write. You could work on stuff. They go, yeah. Well, you know, they go, it's kinda depressing to come to The Cape in the winter because all these people here are on drugs.
And it's like, yeah, because you shift their jobs away. So it's just as stunning. And these are Harvard kids. They're very smart kids, but you have these chasms where they you know, where where you would think it would be completely obvious to people at at at this, you know, amazing academic institution that, yeah, of course, the people are on drugs. They're embracing pathological behavior.
They they don't have a future. But these schools have become these really insular bubbles where these people have these really well meaning aesthetic politics, which says we don't care about your economic circumstances. Here's a trans Batman. And I don't think that that that seems to be the ethos of higher education in America right now. And it's it's it's very hypocritical.
And I I think it's why the democratic party no longer connects because they're too closely associated with, like, that type of, you know, that type
of vibe. Identity
politics. Yeah. Freiburg, what's your thought? Should the IRS revoke or threaten to revoke here their nonprofit status? Is that a fair technique here because they won't acquiesce and do exactly as instructed?
What do and what do you think is gonna happen here? Could this possibly result in them losing their IRS status?
Harvard's endowment is 53,200,000,000. Huge. Assuming they make 7% return, you know, they're making 4,000,000,000 a year in income generated from those investments in that endowment. I think there's a couple of two really important questions. One is, should the role of the federal government be to give out money equally to institutions, or should the role be to give money to the institutions that are gonna provide the highest ROI for America, or is the goal to redistribute wealth?
And is that the the the point of federal spending and federal expenditures? So, you know, you could kind of think about Harvard, MIT, and a few other institutions that have truly great research institutions embedded within them as being the best ROI for America from a grant perspective when you're giving out research grants. That's the best place because it it just like any other great technology company, it accumulates capital because it accumulates talent. And that has a network effect. And now you've got a few institutions that have a monopoly on high quality talent.
And as a result, it's the best ROI for America. Is that what the federal government is investing in? Or is should the federal government be trying to support universities all over the place that are more in need, particularly a university that has 53,000,000,000 of capital? Do they really need the federal funds? So then the next question I think is, like, what is the limit on the government's ability to influence whether or not an institution gets their capital?
Is it statutory? Is it mandated by law, or does it become politically motivated, socially motivated, etcetera? Because in other parts of how we're seeing decisions being made, we're saying Chevron doctrine was thrown out. And when Chevron doctrine gets thrown out, we can't rely on the regulatory scrutiny of the administrators of the capital. We have to rely on the law.
And is there a law that they're relying on? And I think that's the key question is to have the administration point to the laws that they believe are being violated to to to kind of make, I would say, a strongly defensible argument about why they would withhold the capital to make sure that they're compliant with the law and whatnot and have it not be kind of, you know, just we we would prefer to see you do things differently because we think it's socially better. So I think those are kind of the two key points. Whether or not these institutions deserve nonprofit status, I don't know why an institution that has 53,000,000,000 of capital and is making probably 4 or 5,000,000,000 a year shouldn't pay taxes on that income. That income is being used to in a variety of ways to build nice buildings.
And there's IP that's held by these institutions. That IP is used to start startups. They get equity in the startups. They have income streams on their IP. I mean, they really do operate like technology development centers.
So, you know, what is the the original kind of reason for saying that they should be tax exempt? The majority of the capital is not being used to educate students. The majority of the capital is being used to reinvest to make new capital.
Sachs, your position on, Harvard losing its tax exempt status potentially because they will not, stop their DEI programs, or they wanna, I guess, better stated would be that they wanna make their own decisions about this and not have the federal government make those decisions.
Let's get to the nitty gritty of the legal issue here. In 1983, there was a case called Bob Jones University versus the IRS in which the IRS challenged the tax exempt status of Bob Jones University because Bob Jones had this bizarre and reprehensible policy banning interracial dating on campus and interracial marriage based on a strange interpretation of scripture. At least that's what they said it was. In any event, Bob Jones lost that case and they lost their tax exempt status. As far as I know, they kept the policy and they continued to operate as a private university.
But the Supreme Court found that if you enshrine a racially discriminatory policy in violation of the civil rights laws, and you cannot get tax exempt status. So that was the precedent. Fast forward to 2023, we have the case Students for Fair Admissions versus Harvard. This is the Supreme Court case a few years ago that said that affirmative action policies that use race as a factor in emissions are a violation of the fourteenth amendment's protection against racial discrimination. So Harvard lost that case.
They were found to be racially discriminating in admissions. Now, what Harvard did in the wake of that is that they claimed that they removed access to information about an applicant's race from the admissions process so that the admissions readers don't know what race a student is. This is their claim. But at the same time that they did that, they updated their application, replacing the long form essay, you know, that all of us filled out decades ago when we went to school, with five shorter questions asking how applicants will contribute to a diverse student body. It's suspiciously similar to these DEI statements where prospective professors who are applying for jobs these universities get asked, you know, how will you contribute to diversity on campus?
Things like this. And it's used as a way to discriminate against conservatives or people who just think that race or diversity should not be a factor in teaching on campus. Anyone who answers that question, I believe in judging people based on the content of their character, not the color of their skin, gonna get weeded out, right? I mean, or someone who says, well, I'm gonna contribute to diversity on campus by contributing intellectual diversity. Those are the types of applicants who get weeded out by these DEI statements.
And we see that in another part of what the government is claiming is that Harvard is engaged in viewpoint discrimination against conservatives. And you can see this in polling of the Harvard faculty. More than 80% of surveyed Harvard faculty identify as liberal. So my point is this, these DEI statements have been used in faculty hiring to discriminate on the base of viewpoint and to use race as a factor in hiring. I think in a similar way, they've now updated their admission application to make all the essays about race.
So I think this idea that they're not playing a game here and they're not trying to engineer the student class around race, it's hard to believe, right? I mean, these are people who have not changed their ideology. They believe what they were doing before that 2023 case was trying to engineer the percentages of each student class to match the percentages of each race in the American population, right? And these are people who are doctrinaire about that ideology. So the idea that they're not still doing it, I think, is hard to believe.
Now Of course.
Of course. So we all know what they're doing, and the alternative to the administration saying, just get rid of DEI is that every year or two, we're gonna have new litigation where there'll be some whistleblower, and it'll come out that Harvard's still engaging in racial discrimination. And then, you know, Harvard will be found guilty like they were in that 2023 case, and they'll change their policy, and they'll manipulate it, and they'll play some new game, and there'll be a new court case, and we'll keep going back and forth with them. Or we can just say stop it right now. Stop the DEI nonsense.
Actually abide by both the letter and spirit of the Supreme Court decision, students for fair admissions versus Harvard, and stop engaging in racial discrimination. And this is why I think the administration is correct here in pressing Harvard on this. Now look, if Harvard wants to keep playing these games, they can. No one is saying that they have to get rid of DEI. They just have to give up their federal funding the way that Bob Jones University did.
But the problem is the problem is that Harvard wants to have his cake and eat it too. Right? They wanna basically keep engaging in racial discrimination through these DEI policies, but they want federal funding, and you can't have both.
Do you think that these universities or universities in general that receive federal funding have become more ideologically, call it liberal. I would call it a little bit more kind of socialist oriented because they're dependent on federal funding. Do you see what I'm saying? Like, is it the case that this ideology accrues over time when you are much more dependent on the government?
You mean there's no market feedback that that keeps you in check?
There's no private market. There's nothing that ultimately translates into a system where you're necessarily needing to be competitive for capital, competitive for talent. Like like, the accumulation of federal dollars over time makes you say, I deserve federal dollars and the people that think that you deserve federal dollars.
You're making a really good point, and I think you could be right. Nick, can you please throw up the chart that I sent you, which is the the amount of research between China and America? Okay. First, look at this. So, again, you make these plans, and you're like, where are we gonna put the money?
Okay. China says, guys, we are going to learn how to catch up to America in terms of spending on science. This is gross domestic expenditures on science. And what you see is China from basically nothing in 02/2001 is now neck and neck with The United States spending half a trillion dollars a year on core fundamental science research. So what happens as a byproduct of that?
Okay. So you spend more on the way in. So China is listening to the market feedback. Friedberg, let's go and explore this idea that there is no market feedback in America. What are the long run implications?
And you see it on this chart, which is this is a simple chart that says what percentage of all of the foundational research comes from The United States versus comes from China. And what's crazy about this chart is right around 2019, China passed The United States. This chart, by the way, only measures research that is published in English, Okay? If you added in the research that China actually publishes in Chinese, they would have run away with this a decade earlier. So then you think about, okay, well, what is the implication of this?
Well, the implication is obvious. These guys are inventing things. We're playing catch up. Meanwhile, we're bumbling around talking about pronouns. We can't get our act together.
This is why we need to be decisive. What is important here?
So for NIH grants, this was published by the NIH, by the way, a few weeks ago on their Twitter account. So this is an image they put out. And on Feb fifteenth or thereabouts, the NIH said any grants we give to universities now so so today, if you're a researcher, you're a scientist at a university like Harvard, don't know if people realize this, the way you get funding for your lab is you will apply for a grant. Someone has to give you that capital to run your lab, and many grants come from the NIH. So they go to the NIH.
They file for a grant. If the grant gets approved, they get $3,000,000, let's say. But what happens is that at the institution that they run that lab at, that institution can now bill the government for some negotiated percentage of the grant amount to cover administrative overhead. So at Harvard, you know what the administrative overhead was up until Feb fifteenth? '60 '9 percent.
Wait.
No. What is it? So that you're saying $69 of every hundred go to administration. It's an incremental $31.
Yeah. Well, it's actually an incremental $69. So the way it works
Oh, 60 on top.
The the lab gets a hundred, and then Harvard bills the government $69. That's insane. That's insane. And this is true. And and the average is around 30% today across universities and other institutions.
So there's also this very fundamental question that's being asked in science right now, which is, are universities even the right place to be doing fundamental scientific research? In The United States, there are different models. Most of our research is done either at a private company, which is a small amount of research. And remember, I've I've talked about this a lot. The big companies that have a market that's telling them you have to have a positive return on invested capital that have the scale to invest, have the most incredible returns for America, like Google that put out the transformer model that launched everything that we see today and and invested in Waymo for many years and drove the self driving car revolution and all the work that was going on at Bell Labs up until we said Bell Labs is a monopoly.
We broke them apart, they got destroyed. And so we largely aim to destroy large private research institutions in this country because we claim that they're monopolistic because of the way they source capital, which is through activities in the marketplace. So the question today that's being asked is should we be doing fundamental scientific research at universities given that over time the administrative overhead has grown, and they're basically creating administrative workloads and employing people without necessarily having a market incentive.
Can I tell you a crazy story? This is a story I've never told, but a friend of mine is an incredibly well respected banker on Wall Street, very senior guy, works at one of the big mainline banks. And a few years ago, this was about eighteen months ago, two years ago, he had always wanted to work in government. And they tried to get him to join the Federal Reserve. And it was for a role that was very specific and narrow.
It was to manage a very specific part of the interest rate mortgage market. It's a really important role. It's a little bit in the weeds, but it was like his dream job. He did his PhD thesis on it, whole nine years, whatever kind of thing. So he goes through these interviews, and he sits with Jerome Powell, goes through that interview, sits with, I think, Lael Brainard, know, everybody.
And it was time for the final interview. And right before, the person that was his kind of, like, shepherd says to him, you really need to play up your Indianness, because what we really want is somebody who can help us tell a diverse story. He goes, well, my diversity is that I know this market better than literally anyone else in the world. Like, nobody knows this. I know it.
I've studied it since my PhD. And he was so offended. He was like, you know what? I'm not gonna go through with this. And we lost him.
We meaning the American taxpayer who supports all this. If you think of that example in all of the different places where we have not been hiring the right people, You get this slowdown in innovation. You get a slowdown in research. You get a slowdown in well functioning organizations and institutions, and it's like a slow malaise. So how do you stop the rot?
You have to stop it at the top and you have to do something that is meaningful. And if it requires us to at least threaten Harvard and by the way, look, let's be honest. It's called Harvard Corporation for a reason. Right? It's run like a corporation.
It is an asset manager that may happen to have some educational things that they do on the side, which increasingly are not what we need it to do. And more importantly, it doesn't set the vanguard for how everybody wants to copy. And everybody used to wanna copy Harvard, and now what they're copying are not the things that help us. So we have to find a way of waking them up and saying, guys, you have the responsibility for America. And I've maybe this is what it takes, and I and I hope they take the medicine and listen.
Well, the Carlson brothers told us on a previous episode they were just funding researchers and letting them pick their own research to a certain extent. Tim,
How would you play up your Indianness with Jerome Powell? The idea of that is the best thing I've heard all week.
I've asked him. He was told to play up his Indianness, and he was like, well, what does that mean, my Indianness? And they were like, well, you know, talk about your love of Indian dance and Indian food. And he was like, are you are you kidding me? Like, is is this a serious conversation?
Jerome Powell sitting there and go, we were on the fence about you, but you showed up with this butter chicken.
The chicken mock knee. I was gonna bring it up.
The gentleman here with Saag Panir,
and he was out of the sitar. He starts playing the sitar in the
He's a lady. Yeah. Chai masala.
Who's that guy showing up at a rich It's the chairman of the mortgage market.
It's absolutely worked out. Hey, Tim. Yeah. If you were in charge of this, because we do have some ins with the administration, maybe you should be directing some of this research. What would you tell?
Wanted to study anything at Harvard, it would be Brigitte Macron's gender, but I think we do have to focus on disease to an extent. But here's here's what I would say to add to that conversation. I would say that, like, these schools exist for a multitude of reasons, but one of them is to create a consensus among, you know, the wealthiest and obviously people that are expected to be the most powerful in society and to create a consensus about the values that are important to America at any given time. And I think the question should be, why are these values so important and to whom? I don't think they this is altruism, and it's about helping the working class or helping minorities or helping people get more economic justice.
It actually seems to me quite a transparent attempt for certain people to keep positions of power and certain structures to stay in place while offering people this idea that there's a lot of change because there's a few ceremonial optical choices made where we're putting in a a female CEO of color or someone who's Indian, but the internal structure stays the same. And if you just look at a school like Harvard and you go, oh, well, they're yes. Socialist in some respects, but in some respects, actually, you know, if you challenge the Ukraine war, if you challenge aspects of the American empire, if you challenge certain look at all the wars. All of our wars are being sold with social justice. A lot of our wars are being sold because, you know, if we don't see a national security interest in it, we're told that, well, people in that country are are not being treated well.
That country has, values that we don't have in the West, and that may be true. But in many cases, it's it's not worth going to war over, and most Americans would say that. So who exactly is benefiting from these programs and these values being instituted, it isn't low income people in the inner city. It isn't it seems to be kind of a lot of Yeah.
It's opposite it's the opposite of inclusion.
It's the opposite of inclusion.
It's the opposite of inclusion. What has happened?
Exactly. Establishment trying to preserve itself by shutting out certain ideas and certain people and, you know, giving very ceremonial nods to, know, play up your Indianness, play up this, play up that. But, you know, it's like when you the CIA goes and you she goes, I'm the first female drone pilot. And a lot of Americans are going, what exactly is our national security interest in a drone strike in whatever country, and do we need to be doing this, and should the money be better spent somewhere else? But instead of having that conversation, it's always ends up being hijacked.
So this DEI to me just seems like a way for a lot of the same establishment people to keep their power and influence by offering these very optical advancements to people that may, you know, pay lip service to certain ideas. But when it comes down to it, they're very loyal to the same power factions that, you know, have always kind of driven the narrative in our country.
Completely agree.
What happened during comedy to you, Tim, and and and your cohort during that peak DEI, peak cancellation? It felt like the Overton window was closing pretty harshly on you guys. There's a lot of attempted cancellations of comedians, people trying to secretly record you. You got those yonder. I don't know what those are called.
§04Hollywood's DEI facade, thoughts on AI, and more
Those bags that the phones in. What was that moment in time was told
by countless executives to play up my Indianness, and I tried. Yes.
You tried.
But it was just in bad taste.
Yes.
It was in terrible taste when I came in and I tried to be Indian, and and it it just wasn't good. No. I think here's what it was. I started, you know, yeah, having more of a career in, let's say, 2016, '20 '17, '20 '18, and then we were kinda on this path where you'd go have a meeting in in Los Angeles with people about doing a show or whatever, and they would start. All these words and verbiage would creep in.
They go, we're really interested in marginalized voices, elevating voices that haven't been heard. We're interested in empowering and these are LA Executives. They're monsters. They care nothing about anything, and that's why they're good at their job. Right?
The only reason you can be good at your job as an executive in the entertainment business is to really not look at human beings as humans. You have to look at them as Objects. They're objects. Yes.
Manipulate. Pawns on the chessboard.
It's what it is. You know what I mean? If I called my agent today and said, I'm really tired doing everything I'm doing, he'd say, have you tried drugs? Like, they
Right. This would be a I'm just wondering about that because you have such high energy. Don't know why you're not embracing the cocaine or speedy. I don't need any more.
Yeah. But if I do, and by the way, if I do, they'll provide it to me. Here's the deal. The way that town works is you have a bunch of people that believe in nothing and they can't. They can't and be effective.
They have to go whichever way the wind is blowing. So when you have these people pulling up in Porsches with their houses in Malibu, and they're coming and they then have a sudden interest in empowering people. These people were throwing women off into the Santa Monica Canyon for years. So it was this weird time where you had the worst people in the world trying to convince you that they had an interest in marginalized voices because they thought there was money there. Well, guess what?
It turns out Americans don't really like to be patronized, and they they is they were never making TV that minorities wanted to watch. They're making TV that guilty white liberals wanted to watch, and it didn't make any money. Nobody really liked it. A lot of it kind of faded away. And as soon as it stopped being profitable, all the executives in Hollywood that supposedly cared so much about the marginalized voices rediscovered the profit motive.
They rediscovered the idea that they had to make entertaining stuff. They rediscovered viewership. They rediscovered numbers. They they rediscovered all these business fundamentals that they had ignored because they thought there was going to be a pot of gold at the end of all this elevating and empowering, but there wasn't because it was rejected largely by people. They didn't wanna watch it.
They were canceling all of you guys. They were canceling
Well, were trying
to They trying They
were trying, didn't work because people- OECK,
At
the end of the day, realize that people are flawed, fallible, and human, and that's what makes them entertaining. You don't want a perfect person doing anything because that person is not gonna be terribly interesting. You want someone who has flaws and has problems obviously within reason. You know? So I think that
Tim, can I ask a question? Let's say let's say that you are
I support Harvey Weinstein. Go on. I'm sorry. I didn't know if that
was No. Let's say that let's say that
you are
in charge of education in America. What would you do? Where would you start? What would you do?
If I was in charge of education in America, number one, I would try to assert the idea that higher education itself needs to be for a purpose and that there needs to be more of a purpose driven from middle school through high school. We need to start getting kids to think rationally about their skill set and their ability. And I don't think it's a good idea for these kids to take out hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of loans to, you know, go away for four years, not have a solid plan and not execute and then graduate mired in debt without really a pathway to paying any of it back and spending their twenties and maybe a good part of their thirties incapable of owning a home, incapable of owning anything with no real investments. So I think this idea that, like, you should follow your dream, which is this toxic American idea that I don't subscribe to. I think people have natures.
They have skill sets, and they actually have to do something within the realm of that. And it requires being honest with children, which no one wants to do. Mhmm. And I would try to reengineer education to be a more practical place where you you would apply some of the skills that you actually had. I'm not saying people shouldn't be able to experiment or have freedom, but I do think that we've told a lie to people, which is that they can be anything they wanna be and do anything they wanna do.
And and by the way, and here's a bunch of loans to do it. Here's hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of debt. So now you can go into debt without any plan or any logical sense of what you wanna do. I think we should start putting people into a more realistic mindset in high school about what needs to happen. Otherwise, they're taken advantage of and abused by these systems of higher education where they graduate mired in debt and without any type of standing in society.
Oh my god. I wanna I wanna add, Chamaz. Go ahead, Freiburg, and then I got a breaking news story.
I wanna just address this because I think it's there's a moment here that I think will define a very different future for education, which is kind of a movement away from the current model of a school. AI is such a profound tool. The ability for AI to get to know your personality and just, like, teach my kids the way they wanna be taught through conversation, through engagement, through dialogue, knowing that some kids wanna ask questions and some kids wanna just be told stuff. Some kids work at one pace, other kids work at another pace. And I know this idea of personalized education using computing has been around now for decades, but we really are in this moment where the idea of spending, you know, your first eighteen years of life in a classroom where you're being told stuff that is quote the truth versus learning how to engage with the world, ask questions, explore your world, find and identify things that are interesting to you, have it delivered to you in a very personalized, meaningful, rich way that also makes you excited about certain things and helps usher you on to the next phase of your life of what do you wanna do with this and get kids out of this idea that you've gotta go get the degree in order to get the job.
And then I think that the workplace will adjust to that. I I forgot who it is, whether it was Palantir or someone
just started doing this. They just did a
a program where they're like, skip college, come come and do your, basically, your apprenticeship here. So instead of going to college, you'll you'll Yeah. You'll it's paid. You'll continue your education here.
56,000.
You'll work on projects. You'll make money, and you'll continue to have your development be done while you're learning a valuable skill. So I do think, like, as AI kind of takes over education, I do expect that the workplace will change, Tim, and we will start to see more of this integration between education and workplace enabled by this AI driven kind of, you know, development system, which is which is gonna be radically different than what we have today.
You with this AI, Tim? You like, comedians, do they get in there? Don't don't with it.
No. I'm a little skeptical of the tech people I talk about on my shelf. Of course, not you guys, but the other ones.
But the other ones. The other ones.
You know, you guys seem you know, I I think it's great. Palantir goes, skip college. Come get involved in advanced weapons technology. Sure. Go right.
I know. Right.
That's a great
I think that's
a phenomenal idea, actually. It's like, you want
to learn. To go to college. Come be
a drone here at Palantir.
Absolutely.
But I like using my brain at the moment, but if it starts to fail, I imagine it will. I will I will use AI. I know people that do use AI. My producer might use AI. I don't know.
You probably won't tell me. But I do think that listen
Have used it to learn, Tim? Have you used it have you ever done any of the chat apps where you can talk to it and like, hey. You wanna learn or get smart on something or get caught up on something? You can literally just ask questions and have a conversation with him.
That's what We did it on the show. We had an AI bot do a deliver rant in the style of me. It got pretty close. Not good enough yet, but it was pretty close and pretty interesting to see how advanced it is right now and then how advanced it's gonna be. You know, I worry a little bit about what you're gonna do with all of these people once AI starts taking a lot of these jobs.
The cashiers, the the Uber drivers, the DoorDashers, all these jobs people that you're saying.
Five years ago, I was a tour guide on the double not five years ago, but seven or eight years ago. Was a tour guide on a double decker bus in New York City while I was learning how to be a comedian, and I was showing people the Empire State Building and, like, all the 911 Memorial, whatever. And these are the types of jobs that's making $13 an hour. And I was obviously yeah. It wasn't well paid.
It wasn't an amazing job, but it offered me the freedom to get good at something else. But I was taking a lot of risk to do it, and I tolerated that level of risk because I believed what I was doing was the right thing and the right course of action. But it's jobs like that that allow some of the most interesting, you know, like, lives that people should be able to live if they want to. I don't think everybody may want or need to have a full time job. There are people that have retired and go, I'd like to be a tour guide or I'd like to work at a at a museum a few days away.
Find your your stand up was being on the double decker bus? You know, were you able to put one liners in there?
I was able to do all kinds of stuff like that. To me, it's like those jobs. Right? Yes. Some of those I don't think the entire economy should be the gig economy, but I do think some of those jobs are gonna be eliminated by AI are the jobs that allow people to get good at other things while they're doing them.
So people that are in entertainment and music and stuff like that, we want them to be able to support themselves while they enrich us culturally in other ways.
Crazy breaking news story right now. Sorry, Saxe. I didn't mean to have this blindside you here. But and I know, you know, you're with the administration. You don't speak for the administration necessarily on this issue, but looks like the Federal Reserve has a new chairman.
It's just breaking news here.
So racist.
Except hot off the water. Trump is named Chamath as a to the Federal Reserve. I think all these fundraisers worked out for you, but there is a note. So they asked Chamath to be more Sri Lankan. So if you could to the extent you could be more Sri Lankan, Chamath, the president
Trump is being Sri Lankan? Is he really Sri Lankan?
I am. I am. But that's so rich. Sri I mean,
it's so book about the Tamil tigers many years ago. Do you remember them?
Yes. They
They invented suicide bombing.
They did.
Listen. Be proud. Be proud of stuff.
Oh, I was
like, I'm trying to saying, Tim, that the great export of Sri Lanka was suicide vests?
I'm saying be proud of stuff. Well, that was
that was the ethnic minority that was fighting for a homeland. I was part of the ethnic majority. You were home.
You were the one trying to avoid the suicide nests.
No. My dad was the one that spoke out against the war. That's why we we had to skedaddle and claim refugees.
Potato. I support both. I'm the only person with the moral courage to say I support Israel and Hamas and Russia and Ukraine. You can just wanna see a good game. You can wanna see a good
game. Don't have to
take a side
time if there's a lead change.
You like a lead
change.
It really depends in Beverly Hills who I'm having lunch with and what type of Middle Eastern they are, because I can go either way on that.
And I think it's important. Don't wanna be too
rigid in this economy. You need to be able to move into things. And I will read
the audience?
Read the audience. Sides. I've read the Israel stuff and the Palestine stuff. They're both right. Guess what?
That's right. So at the end of the day, what
you need to do? Tammy's career. Is that an approach you
could take. What's right for me? What's the easiest lunch? What's the easiest afternoon for me? What you know?
That's the resistance. That's the move for me. Always, all the time. You know?
Right. So
You know?
Absolutely. Absolutely.
What did what Putin did, was it right? No. But do I like the idea of the oligarch, the furs, the boats, the kinda lifestyle? Yes. The kinda attraction.
Yachts. Yes. That to me is always spoken to me. Somebody said to me once, you're spiritually Russian. So I think I have that in me, so I just can't ignore it.
So how would you rank your dictators? It sounds like you're a Putin guy or you a Putin has
a lot of class. Whether you like him or not, has a lot of class. Putin has number one. People do fall out of windows in London. It does happen, actually.
Accidentally. It's it's not always you know what I mean? It's like sometimes somebody does take a spell. Be true. And it's not always him.
I like him. I I like Kim I think it's Jong Un in North Korea.
Yes.
I like him. He has style as well.
Don't forget Zelensky.
Oh, sorry. Zach. Zelensky. I don't know. He's kinda new school.
He just extended military
But can
you imagine
what they
told not
bring up Ukraine?
Yeah. So be careful.
He just extended martial law. There's no election.
By the way, I like Saks on this. And I think when they told Putin that a comedian was now the president of the Ukraine, Putin probably said, listen. Are they serious? Are they are they even trying anymore? Is he goes, is the CIA even trying anymore?
Are you serious? Wait. The guy who played the president in a TV show is now the actual president?
Yes.
And Putin's getting this information sitting there in his palace. Like, I mean Yes. I mean, listen. All wars tragedy. It's all terrible and bad, but, you know, we also I think David's done a phenomenal job, by the way, of looking at how you get to certain places.
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then I think the the you do a lot of private shows.
Yeah. You do a lot of private shows, Tim. The the private shows with the dictators, the despots, the monarchies, they pay what? Three to one, four
to They wanna laugh. These people, they wanna laugh. You know? I mean, it's Duterte likes to laugh. So, know, these people wanna laugh, and I'm not here.
MBS wants to laugh. I'm not here to pass judgment on the audience. I'm here to bring well, it's actually funny. I did, like, one private gig. I don't get on a lot of private gigs, but I got one big Bitcoin guy in Romania.
I had me go to his birthday party. Uh-huh. And it was just this older oligarch type guy, and they all spoke Romanian, and it was very hard. And it paid me a hundred thousand dollars to do twenty minutes, and they didn't really understand anything. And then one guy just stood up, and I guess he recognized me.
He started yelling, and then sat So I am open to I'm open to performing for anyone, really, truly.
Can anyone? Idi Amin, Iran. You could just Kim Jong un, just send him a ticket.
Hey. Is the money green? Is the money green over there?
The money's not clean, but
That's gotta be an underfunded market.
I mean, all I hear now every day is Iran's coming to kill everyone. Is that true? I don't know. I I I'm okay. Are they invading?
Is Iran landing in Aspen
building nukes maybe wanna wipe out one or two countries. A little genocide. Wish fulfillment.
How far are they along on those nukes? We don't know that.
80% of them.
You think 80%?
They're they're perpetually at 80%. We just keep knocking out the last 20 is I think the approach, the
I just don't think we need put it on the ground there. I don't think we need to do this again.
The two of you are the living embodiment of ADHD.
Yes. Well, should we speaking of ADHD, do we wanna go ADHD or science point?
Tim, J Cal falls for every pro war narrative there is. He's like Absolutely. He's like, I'm against war, but then he falls for every single narrative they play.
Absolutely. Absolutely. And you did a great job. You guys have done ending the war in on day one of your administration. Congratulations.
At least he's trying. By and the best actually accomplish something.
Defend the administration? We've actually ended it spiritually. We've ended it spiritually.
We have.
Yes. We no longer believe in it. We're we're at it's actually happening in the physical world, but actually, spiritually, the war is over.
Yes. So you're manifesting the end of the war
Well, it's over for The Ukraine war is fully over for me.
Got it. Zelensky refuses to make a deal. You saw what happened at the White House.
I mean, if only we had a deal maker to help with this.
Jason, you know Jason, you know how you would know this for sure? What? Because I I my intuition tells me that what Tim just said is totally right, is the number of Ukraine flags that were taken off of profile photos.
Along with the pronouns.
No. Even though it's a joke, I am being very dead serious. The idea of it has ended. It is now just about a border negotiation. It is no longer a totemic struggle for freedom or whatever they you know, the you know, it was it was being sold to us as.
Totally agree.
Hey. Takeout still believes that.
You can speak for yourself.
Believe that the
free countries, just to be clear, I believe the free countries
should stop the non
free countries from invading them. That's it. It's a pretty simple philosophy. Freeburg, what's in science for Tim? Tim, at the end of the show, we like to do a little What about
science documentaries about the Ukraine being the most corrupt country in Europe and like a white supremacist country and all these? Happened to all those vice documentaries about that? Seem to disappear- President- They seem to disappear very quickly when Ukraine became a bastion of freedom and love and opportunity and equality.
Now you're speaking Sax's language. Oh, look at that smile on Sax's face.
Well, Nick, just put this on the screen. Mean, just happened yesterday.
Oh god. Right now, we've started the Ukraine vortex.
Ukraine's parliament since martial law till August. Here we go. Extreme.
Yeah.
No big deal. They canceled elections. They canceled freedom of the press. They canceled freedom of religion. Zelenskyy's political opponents, their assets have been seized.
They've been in prison. No big deal. Sold them my first.
His favorite dictator is Putin as well. Hey, Dave Frabro.
Tell the first leader after 09:11 to call The United States in express sympathy. I believe it was Vladimir Putin. How many times has Vladimir Putin threatened American interests over the last twenty odd years? Like, has Vladimir Putin has Russia been an existential threat to America? Have they disrupted huge amounts of our trade?
Have they it seems to me very calm.
NATO. He wanted to be our ally. We
like Right.
But you know what the best quality of of Putin is? We're not funding him. He's not asking for American money. The rest of these dictators, we keep funding.
He's not asking for a dollar. I also like that he's well read.
It's well read. Yes. Yeah.
But he's not he's not coming to the White House begging. He's not coming to the White House every three months begging for more Poetry. Hundreds of billions.
He's he's he's into a lot of
But any criticism of the Ukraine war means that you love Putin and wanna live in Russia and think Russia is great. It's a very weird Marikian sense of good and evil that was instituted by George W. Bush right after nine eleven when he said, you're with us or against us, and with us means we're going to democratize the Middle East, which I fell for because I was, you know, 17 and on cocaine. But in hindsight, it didn't work tremendously well. And I just I it's always very skeptic I'm very skeptical of these narratives where they say, so if you find any fault at all in what you do in what we're doing, you're giving you're aiding and abetting a dictator.
It makes no sense to me.
Speaking of the nineties and cocaine, Friedberg, what's in
some No.
This is moving on, Tim. He does not respond to that.
No. Friedberg is really upset the last couple of weeks that he got preempted. I'm trying to do right by Friedberg and the Friedberg stans who are just absolutely mental now that we haven't talked about his incredible victory on Jeopardy! And we haven't gone to Science Corner in a couple weeks.
Congrats.
Tim, if you were ever you you have what what game show do you wanna be on, Tim? You must
None of them. None of them.
None. All the money on Soul.
One would you wanna
host, Tim?
No game shows.
You wouldn't host a game show. You must have been offered.
No. Never. They I don't think I'm what they want for the game show.
Money printing machine you could get in a game show, Family Feud, or something.
We'll
No. I do. I do.
It all it all goes to charity.
§05Celebrity Jeopardy update: Friedberg is heading to the finals!
Was it Freeburg, was it hard?
Yeah. It well, I shot the quarterfinal and semifinal in the same afternoon, so I didn't have any you know, you go away for lunch and you come back for the semifinals. And I did not know how to use that buzzer, and everyone else, I think, had practiced or figured that stuff out. So it was pretty difficult. And then my brain was just, like, blank on some of these moments.
I you're just up there. There's this intensity. You're in this game show, and it's like, I know the answer. Why is it not coming out of my mouth? Or why did I say that thing that I know is wrong that just came out of my mouth?
It's a little bit kind of scary how much you
play the Let's show the clip here, and then we'll go on to science coin. Watch this clip. Watch this. Final Jeopardy.
I'm in the last place. So I I was behind the entire game. I was basically in the last place the whole time.
Catch up.
Short stop.
Here we go.
Buzz in in time.
Yeah. It all comes down to this. Final Jeopardy in a very close game. No festivals is the category. Here's the clue, players.
Roman Friedberg.
Called the premier movie industry event for the Balkans, this festival began thirty years ago while the city was under siege. We'll begin on the end with Dave Friedberg who had $8,700, and looks like he changed his answer at the last minute. What happened He wrote down something and crossed it out
and wrote
Sarajevo Film Festival.
We can
read Sarajevo, and that's the important part. Right? We're gonna give you credit. Wagered 8,697, and now you have 17,390 You're ahead of Mina Kimes at the moment with 17,000. What did she put down?
I did my math wrong. Oh my god.
She wrote down can, and she
wagered
And
just what?
A thousand. That drops her down to 16,000.
That's wrong.
So it comes down to Sean Gunn who had 22,000. Did he know it was Sarajevo Film Festival? He said Bosnia, right country, wrong city. Oh. What did you wager?
12,001. 9 thousand 9 hundred and 90 9. And from He could've just stay free from
What did he do?
Who did you have to pick?
Celebrity jeopardy.
Can I
ask you question? And this is a very this is a serious question.
And I
and it's it's not disrespectful. Why do they call this celebrity jeopardy?
You're correct.
Are you not Are are you
Are these
your celebrity identify one of those people with a gun to my head?
I don't know.
There were 27. I didn't know any of them.
So I
felt I felt in place.
Yeah. I felt like I belong. Think the guy in
middle two people.
Well, James Gunn's brother who was in he played, like, the seventeenth guy in Guardians of the Galaxy.
Oh, that guy. Happening.
I mean, if you're going to Marvel Universe's characters don't have speaking roles pull him up for a second. Has nonspeaking role
in a Marvel
movie. There's 1,400 Marvel movies, and this guy hasn't
spoken to one. Come on.
Stop. Him.
That's Omar Phoebe. Was the other lady?
I think she's
Who's that?
I I mean She's on she's on she's on she's she's
on ESPN.
A researcher on ESPN. What and she does fencing. Right? She's the fencing person from ESPN? Oh, no.
She I think she covers football on ESPN. Football or foosball?
But she got right. Was this
you, J. Cal, on
Was this actually celebrity jeopardy, or is this just, like
Just call
it jeopardy.
Just call it jeopardy. Just call it jeopardy.
It could be jeopardy. Easy Jeopardy.
Just call it Jeopardy. Just call it, hey. We're doing this thing now.
They should do a comedian
Charity Jeopardy.
That would
Okay. The finals are next Wednesday at 9PM.
Have you actually done the episode,
or have done the finals? Finals.
When is the final episode? How do we make money off this? How do we front run this? Oh, he's done it already, so you know the winner. Why don't we do a poly market for this and we can all cash in and get off this show?
We could all just cash in on this show. Somebody could shoot this dog. There is a there is a dollar number, JKL. There's a dollar
number. People watching?
Send to 30,000,000, send to 40,000,000? 20 5 percent now.
He's the first Actually,
Tim Tim's asking, what do the ratings go up or down for celebrity jeopardy?
Down. Certainly down.
They used to be good. So I think so I think regular well, they do it at 9PM on Wednesday nights. Okay. So it's not even during it's not during
five five. Celebrity to go on this. If a celebrity goes on this and they're known for being smart, George Clooney goes on right
Exactly. I realized this when I got there. I'm like, a second. There's no upside in me doing this. I'm gonna look like an idiot.
And I answered all these stupid questions wrong, and I look like a moron. I'm like, why did I do that? That was No.
It's a it's a stupid show that should go away.
Jeopardy! Should go away. Great. I'm great.
No. I mean, it's like this idea that, like, all these people that nobody knows the hell they are, it just you know, the it just people at home are going, who the hell? What the fuck is this? The lady from ESPN says con. Like, she thinks it's in France.
Like, this is just making people mad that go, hey, man. I got nothing going on, and these people are celebrities or idiots.
I mean, same continent? She hit the same continent. Right?
She's filling people with rage looking at these people that aren't even celebrities and on top of that are morons.
Mean, you have an obligation to either be a
celebrity or I'm sorry. It did say the Balkans.
This is it's a little rough. I mean, a little brutal. Hey. Save the show, Dave. Please give
us a science. I'll I'll do I'll do a quick science corner. And then the name of
the game here, Tillen, just since your first time on the show Of course. Is somehow if you can get around the horn and put in a Uranus joke, you'll just you'll just kill with the audience.
I'm gonna try to get that memory. Producer right now, we're setting up a company in Bhutan. That's my whole thing now.
Oh, you're gonna be flipping a $20.
I just learned so much on the front half of this show. We're go it's a it's a company in Bhutan. Give us the chips. Wink. Wink.
They're not going to Beijing at all. Wink. My godson's chips.
In the back. They go through the front, maybe the side door. There's
a truck. Truly, I swear to God, they brought him to my home when he was four months old because they know I'm single and I have a little bit of money, not compared to you, but compared to these people. And they said, would you he's would you be his godfather? He's Chinese. Absolutely.
I said, high end. Let's go. Four years later, they tell me they go, he's actually Filipino. I'm not even kidding. So this is why you can't trust anyone in this country about anything.
Even your adoption, your, wow. Oh my gosh. Corrupt adoption. How do we all feel about Okay.
Let let's do science corner.
Science corner. Mitochondria? Or
Today is mitochondria therapy day. So every cell in our body has mitochondria. Tim, you know that. Right? And
Yeah. It's the powerhouse of the cell.
Powerhouse of the cell. Exactly. Yeah. And it's a little organelle.
This is the last segment.
Yeah. You can drop off sex.
Okay. See you later.
No. See Cats,
I'll see
you in Moscow.
Okay. Yeah. Okay. Excellent. I'll see you at the Putin Film Festival.
See you. You forgot to say what is
Putin Film
I'll see
you at the Moscow Film Festival.
Need to run to Sean Hannity show, unfortunately. Got Sorry. No. Unfortunately. Don't say unfortunately.
You gotta leave that in. I like
him. Absolutely. He's amazing. Yes.
I I I really enjoy you guys. Thank you for having me on. I really learned. This was amazing. And I I I'd love I'd love to do it again.
I appreciate all of you. I think you're I think you're all great. And whatever you're doing on the side, whatever you people eventually get arrested for, I support you. Just know that. I'm I'm a supporter of whatever some security podcast.
On the yeah. Whenever whenever whenever comes
out that there's a reason why you knew so much about the Bhutan company, it doesn't matter to me.
It's not.
I'm a fan. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you,
Jay Simon. Appreciate it. Thank you, Jim Dillon. Everybody watched Jim Dillon's special on the Netflix. Hopefully, he can
He was great.
Finally, eclipse love on the spectrum. Love on the spectrum.
Yeah. Definitely. He's
Alright. See you guys.
It's like, okay. Free burners. And then there were three.
You know what? Now we're gonna
go to stage to do
science corner as a stand alone show, and we're gonna launch it
in corner with you. You do Tav's corner with me.
I'm gonna eat lunch. I love you guys.
Mickey, what episode we We're doing science quarter. Let's go.
I got it. I got your science quarter. I'm with you to the end, brother. Free burns. Me and you, buddy.
Tell me about science quarter. I'm interested.
You're interested. We've got no listeners. We've got no audience at this point.
I'm here for your segment. Go ahead, David.
Aw. For the four of you and Chamath. Okay. So mitochondria are the powerhouse of the cell, as Tim just told us, educated us. Right?
§06Science Corner: Mitochondrial Therapy
So every cell has hundreds of mitochondria. There then mitochondria are what are called organelles. They have their own DNA. In fact, evolutionarily, mitochondria were bacteria that basically ended up in the symbiotic relationship with what became our cells. So we each have mitochondria, hundreds of them in each one of our cells.
Each mitochondria has its own nucleus and has its own DNA. And the mitochondria make the energy that the rest of the cell uses. That energy is called ATP, and it eats up glucose or it eats up ketones if you're in ketosis, and it uses that to make the ATP. So every cell in our body gets its energy, which is what it uses to function from the mitochondria. And so there's been a lot of research into the relationship between mitochondria and aging and that dysfunctional mitochondria, as they start to break down and stop working and have damage, may actually be a key driver for many diseases that we experience as humans, including many cancers, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, ALS, features of autism, muscle tissues being weak, etcetera.
So as the cells get older and the mitochondria stop working, we make new mitochondria. But over time, the DNA degrades and the mitochondria become less effective, and there are fewer functional mitochondria per cell. The cell stops working right.
Can I ask you a question?
The organism stops working right.
Have you have you learned anything about the connection of creatine to mitochondrial health?
It's part of some of the processes, but there's some separate research on this, but it's definitely worth spending time on.
People are on crazy about getting five grams or 10 of creatine speaking like a trend.
Yeah. I think it's low. Yeah. No. Five grams.
Yeah. Something like that. Yeah.
It's trending on Twitter. I think it's kind of like a meme or a joke in addition to
being serious. I don't think it's a joke. Is it is it but it does it is there any science that backs that up or not really for my to come
in? There
there are questions on this. Like, you wanna focus on things that are increasing biogenesis, which is creation of new mitochondria? Does that create a better benefit? On the creatine work, I've read some of these papers. I actually tried it for a while.
I personally had a a allergy to it, which is kinda rare, but happens. But, anyway, we can talk about it further. So so one of the key things was, there are three papers that I wanted to just highlight that kinda follow an interesting theme. The first one was from 2023 from WashU in St. Louis.
And, this paper, Nick, if you could just pull up that image of mitochondria being transferred, these folks identified and demonstrated that mitochondria can actually transfer from one cell to another. So if you've got a cell that's got damaged or dysfunctional mitochondria, they've identified three mechanisms by which mitochondria can move into a cell that needs more mitochondria that are working and are more functional. That's something that's been theorized for a long time. People have said, oh, well, we think mitochondria transfer, but there wasn't really evidence of this. So as of two years ago, these guys provided very good evidence of mitochondria that we can now put into cells.
If it's floating around, it can make its way into another cell. And as a result, it can rejuvenate or provide energy to a dysfunctional cell, which might improve dysfunctional tissue or improve disease. The second paper was done, last month out of Columbia University, and this was the first mapping of the mitochondria in the human brain. And so these folks created seven zero three tiny cubes of brain from a person that passed away, a 54 year old donor, and then they analyzed the mitochondria in each of those cubes and they used that to make a map of mitochondria in the brain. And what it showed was that different parts of the brain, different cells had different amounts of mitochondria and different mitochondrial function, which actually starts to highlight how that difference in energy production in different cells in different parts of the brain may actually cause some of the things like memory loss or speech impairment, or, as we age, the fact that we end up being kind of forgetful or start to lose some of our capacity, that the mitochondrial dysfunction in the brain might actually be the key driver of that aging, symptomology.
The third paper, just came out, came out of a team at Shijiang University in China. So what these guys did, which was really incredible, is they took stem cells. So stem cells that they got out of human blood and they took those stem cells and they figured out a way to treat the stem cells so that those stem cells would start to make an excess amount of mitochondria than they normally would make. In fact, they were able to get those stem cells to make eight fifty four times the number of mitochondria that those cells would normally make. And those mitochondria were on average 5.7 times more efficient at making energy, ATP.
So they created highly energetic mitochondria and they made a lot of them. And the idea that we can put mitochondria into our body or into tissue in our body to heal it or repair it has been something that folks have been trying to do research around for a long time, but the limiting factor is access to enough mitochondria. So this mechanism that they developed where they could take stem cells, make copies of the stem cells, make lots of mitochondria, and then they isolate that mitochondria and use it as a therapeutic tool. And they did it in cartilage that was damaged and they were able to heal that cartilage. So, this is a group that does bone and and tissue repair studies, but they applied the mitochondria directly into the area where there was damage to the bone, and the bone grew back, and it actually improved the healing in an incredible way.
This opens up the door to this whole new therapeutic modality, a new type of therapy called mitotherapy or mitochondrial therapy that based on the series of papers that we're seeing coming out recently, I believe could end up becoming a really incredible new therapy that may ultimately lead to the treatment for many diseases that we're kind of dealing with right now. So I just wanted to kinda link those
be immediately applicable to say people with sports injuries, you know, meniscus, knees, ankles. You start to think about those bone spurs chips that basketball players, football players go through. Would that this be, like, the low hanging fruit for this technology?
Yeah. I mean, what they did this in and I think this was published in a research magazine called Bone or something, bone and tissue or something. Yeah. But they did it in posture.
Lapse. I gotta thanks for reminding me.
They did it in a in a model a mouse model of osteoarthritis, and it, repaired this osteoarthritis. But that's exactly right. And so that's tissue where you can using a microscope, you can actually see the healing happening. But you could see this being applied, for example, to cerebrospinal fluid, where you could basically increase the mitochondrial, the energetic mitochondrial production, that finds its way into maybe neuronal cells, into neurons in your brain and improves, your brain function, or you could put it into damaged hearts after heart attacks and improve heart function. So there's all these theories about how you could use mitotherapy as this becomes possible to now produce lots of mitochondria and use it as a therapy that can then be applied to lots of diseases.
So I I think there's gonna be a bit of a blossoming of research in this area
of To my therapy. Take this. If they can get this going in the next two years or so, they could get this and Biden could actually, compete with Trump for his third term if they could get this to Biden in time.
I mean, that's
Is microphone on?
That's exceptionally mean. And I think that that's Oh,
now all of a sudden you're defending.
By the way, did you guys see did you guys see George Clooney? What do you guys think of his new haircut, his hair color?
I noticed he was he's dying his hair. He's he was gray and narrow. He must
be it must be for an acting job because his his hair
But I hadn't seen this. This is crazy.
He looks It looks like his face is melting.
Oh my god. He looks like he did a I don't know. Like, what do they call that hair coloring for men? Like, you put it in the shower. It looks very weird.
Well, he just did an interview explaining his whole op ed on Biden, but it's in it's in that clip where he looks very different.
What did he say on Biden?
I thought he looked really he said he felt compelled to act and that it was a civic duty, although the dates don't match up, but nobody ever questioned him about that. But he he looked really good. He looked really good.
Get a call from Obama. Pepper here.
You Salt and pepper works a %. For him. What's he doing?
Mean, Clooney's a very handsome guy, but in in that in that interview, he did I I don't think he looked pretty good.
You guys watched the White Lotus, by the way? Did you guys watch White Lotus? What do we think? Okay.
So I don't know what it was, but I had heard from a bunch of you guys in the group chat that the show was not good. So Nat and I ignored it. Then we started it. We watched one episode. Phenomenal.
Oh, you loved it.
Well, we're one episode in, but it was great. And we were like, this is really good. And then, you know
I I don't think it's terrible. And the the kid, Schwarzenegger, Patrick Schwarzenegger, is a fan of All In, apparently.
So Patrick Schwarzenegger, I can tell that that guy has one of the most interesting roles in that series. I'm really looking forward to him. Who else was really
We DM'd the other day. We're following each other, I saw, and he he said, great pod. He DM'd me and said, Great pod. And I said, Great job. And then I mentioned
Patrick Schwarzenegger is your friend?
Well, I guess it's like, what does it mean? Like micro celebrity DM friends? I don't know.
You could be on Celebrity Jeopardy! J. Go.
I could literally be on Celebrity Jeopardy! I think I would prefer to do Hollywood Squares. I feel like Hollywood Squares, I could shine because you get a little one liners in, like the jokes are kind of built into it, a lot more fun. But I think we should do Family Feud versus another podcast squad. So like us versus Why
do you
aim so high always?
Oh, I think Family Feud's funny. I mean, it's funny. Alright, everybody. This has been another Actually, would be a
lot of fun. That's a good idea. In fact, we should do it we should do it with Schultz and his crew, the four of them and the four of us.
All in vaults is Schultzy and his crew. That'd be hilarious.
Eight people would watch.
No. You're incorrect.
No. No. No. People would love it.
Yeah. Yeah. This is definitely something for John to get on.
For done sniffing our own butts. Let's go. We gotta go. Okay. I love you guys.
I miss you.
The number one podcast in the world, Shumath Palihapitiya, your chairman dictator, David Freeburg, your sultan of science. Tim Dillon, great job today. And we will see you all And David Sachs. Don't
forget David
And I'm sorry. The czar. The czar. Huzzah to the czar who apparently is back. Can't love you, boys.
And now he's back. Love you, boys. All in Summit, September '9.
Bye bye.
All in fan meetups are happening episode two two five, Saturday, April 20 six. Go to AllIn.com/meetups to join and meet and host a meetup with other All In fans in your town. We'll see you all next time. Bye bye. Bye bye.
We should all just get a room and just have one big huge orgy because they're all just useless. It's like it's like sexual tension that they just need to release somehow.
What? Your feet. What? Your