Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series

00:04Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the All In podcast. We're here at the inauguration of our 47th president, Donald j Trump, and we have a very special guest joining us on our coverage, senator Ted Cruz from the great state, now my great state, of Texas. Welcome to the oil and podcast.

00:21And welcome to Texas. It's pretty great. Where'd you get

00:24the boots? Any chance I can get a recommendation here?

00:27A referral? Oh, that's easy. These are Lucchese. Lucchese, the factory is in El Paso. They're handmade there.

00:32They're beautiful.

00:34Okay.

00:35And and these particular boots, the front of them have the senate seal on on them.

00:39Oh, that's that's strong.

00:41And the back of that

00:42That's really great.

00:43Have the come and take it flag Woah. Which I don't know. Do you know the history of the come and take it flag?

00:49I was about to ask you.

00:50K. Since you're a new Texan, this is important.

00:52And he started saying y'all, so he's adapting, but he needs to learn.

00:55Y'all gotta stop giving me a

00:56hard time about that. K?

00:58Alright. So Texas in the 18 twenties 18 thirties, we were part of Mexico. Right. And the dictator of Mexico was general Santa Ana. And there's a little town in South Texas called the town of Gonzales, and and general Ana sent an order to the Texians, which is what we were called back then, Texians, to hand over their guns.

01:19And there was a cannon that guarded the city. And general Santa Ana said, hand over the cannon. And the Texians responded by making a flag with an image of the cannon, and underneath it, the legend, come and take it.

01:32Mhmm. Oh, wow. Scary.

01:34And and they flew it over the town, and that was the beginning of the Texas revolution. Now the epilogue is Santa Ana came in with about 6,000 soldiers, and he did in fact take the cannon. I mean, Gonzales was a tiny little town. And the Texas revolution was very much like the American revolution. We lost every damn battle.

01:51The Alamo was a slaughter. Goliad was a slaughter, much like Washington where every battle he lost and lost and lost. And then at San Jacinto, we won, defeated Santa Ana, general Sam Houston, and we became our own nation, the Republic of Texas, from 1836 to 18 45.

02:07Says something about resiliency, doesn't it?

02:09It does.

02:09Let me ask you a question. Having lived in New York and grown up there, and then done 20 years, in California now, my 2nd year in Texas or starting my 2nd year. It's amazing to me that you're allowed to build things in Texas, like homes or factories, and the price of homes has gone down 2 years in a row. And then the other two places I live, the price of homes go up every year at 10, 20%. And then you don't have state taxes.

02:39Yep. How is all this possible when you look at it just from first principles? How are you able to accomplish so much development in Texas when in California, the NIMBYism, like, literally if you wanna build Yeah.

02:52It's a great question.

02:53A a cancer ward for children, they'll stop you because it throws shade on a protected species of flower.

03:00So California used to know the answer to this. 50 years ago, California was the economic engine of the country. And, unfortunately, you're cursed by idiot politicians who were destroying this this mighty economic engine. You know, none of this is rocket science. In in Texas, we believe in freedom.

03:18We believe in low taxes and low regulations. And and to understand the state, Texas was basically founded by a bunch of wildcatters who were guys with 4th grade educations that began drilling holes in the ground, and one after the other became the richest man on earth. Yeah. And and the ethos of Texas you know, it was interesting. Number of years ago, I was visiting with with a CEO and an executive team of a company that had moved from California to Texas.

03:48And they didn't have any Texas ties, but they were just fed up with California. They moved to Texas. So I was asking them. They've only been in Texas for a couple of months. I said, alright.

03:54What's the biggest difference? And I thought maybe they'd say taxes or maybe regulations or maybe lawsuits. Those were the three things I was gonna guess. Their answer blew me away. They said the biggest difference is the culture.

04:08And what they said is in California, if you're in business, you're a pariah. They said, look. There's an exception for tech and an exception for Hollywood. If you I

04:17need more. But yeah.

04:18Well, I mean, that was their view, but they were not in tech or Hollywood. They they they were in sanitation, which was not a sexy business.

04:24Mhmm.

04:25And and the way they described it, they said if you're at a party and someone asks, what do you do? And you say, I'm a businessman. They said people would turn around and walk away. And I gotta say as a Texan, that is weird. I mean, we'd lionize entrepreneurs.

04:38But California was a pioneering state. The gold rush. What happened? Because it's, you know, it's always easy to blame idiot politicians, but in a democracy Yeah. Those politicians are elected by the voters.

04:51So that something where did the voters go that caused this change in that state compared to where the voters went in Texas when they both came from and all of America, all of the United States, all the the states of the republic came from a a pioneering origin?

05:06Well, there is a cause and effect. And you go back to 1987, and 1987 is when Ronald Reagan signed amnesty into place. And at the time, there were 3,000,000 illegal immigrants living in the United States. And the congress went to the American people and said, alright. We got a deal for you.

05:21Mhmm. We're gonna secure the border. We're gonna fix the problem of illegal immigration forever. And in exchange, we're gonna give amnesty to the 3,000,000 people who are here illegally now.

05:30Right.

05:31And in 87, the American people said, okay. That sounds like a reasonable deal. They took the deal. Mhmm. Now we now know what happened, which is the amnesty happened, but the border never got secured.

05:42What did that mean for California? The highest concentration of illegal immigrants was in California. 1988, California voted Republican, the presidential race as it had for 6 consecutive years 6 consecutive cycles

05:57Right.

05:57Previously.

05:58Right.

05:591988 was the last year California ever went Republican.

06:02Well, Schwarzenegger?

06:04For president.

06:05Oh, for president.

06:06Yeah. In in the presidential race.

06:07On the president.

06:08And so I think the amnesty law played a significant part, the federal law changing the voting composition of the state. Yeah. And then and look. You guys would know the state politics more, but it also seemed to me that you have the public employee unions in California that realize that they could vote themselves more and more of of of the large yes. The ultimate failure of the politician of democracy.

06:30Right? And it

06:33So Jason brought up a really important question to kick this off. I just wanna give you a chance to maybe expand on it, which is there are so many examples. Texas is 1. You can look abroad. The UAE as an as an example is another where there's a high degree of quality of infrastructure and Yep.

06:54You know, civility, social services, education, security, but you don't have the traditional taxation. Right. And so how is Texas able to actually keep the wheels on, and states like California, which has, you know, $322,000,000,000 budget is just completely falling apart. How like, what is what what happens? Because you then see everything at the federal level, but, when you go back to your state, you see, hey.

07:24We don't have, and and your real estate taxes aren't that much higher, are they, than California? Yeah.

07:29The real estate taxes are a little bit higher, but we have no income tax. So it more more than makes up for it.

07:34Yeah. Yeah. That's that's 1 and a half dependent.

07:36That's the principal avenue of taxation. You got real estate taxes and sales taxes are are where the state and and local governments get their taxes, but no income tax. Look. Some of it is. Government does less.

07:47I mean, there's a philosophy that government doesn't have to spend and provide everything. Government does police and firefighters and roads and does the basic responsibilities of government. Right. But it's not engaged in funding every pet project of every politician. Right.

08:05That's part of it. You know, you look at across the country. I mean, it is not a complicated migration pattern that people are fleeing bright blue states with high taxes and high regulations.

08:19Yep. And

08:20they are coming to red states with low taxes and low regulations.

08:24And it's safety.

08:26So we've had it is now been more than a decade that we have had over a 1000 people a day moving to Texas. So when I was first elected 13 years ago, we had 26,000,000 Texans. Today, we have over 31,000,000 Texans. So we've added 5,000,000 Texans in 13 years. And and the biggest state folks come from is California.

08:47It's interesting. The migration pattern, you get a lot of California to Texas. New Yorkers tend to go to Florida more. We get some New Yorkers, but but for whatever reason, West Coast folks seem to prefer Texas and East Coast folks seem to prefer Florida. But I actually think the competition in terms of where we lose people to, we lose people either to Florida or Tennessee.

09:08Those are about the only two places if someone's thinking of leaving, and I love that competition. I want Florida and Tennessee to be out fighting and saying we can create an even better environment for small businesses and jobs. And and part of it is the number one reason people come to Texas is Texas where the jobs are. And you want an environment where you have small businesses that are doing great, but people also wanna be safe. And and so, you know, you look at things like like defunding the police or Soros prosecutors that let murderers go.

09:38Yep. And that gives people a pretty acute incentive to get the heck out.

09:42We, were involved in the recall of Ches Boudin

09:45Yep.

09:46Our podcast, and David Sacks, our our compatriot, who couldn't make it. He's he's busy working, with you guys here. But, yeah, this this crime issue seems people have seemed to lost, they seem to have lost the script on who the state is working for, the taxpayers or the criminals. And in Texas, it's just extraordinary that you've figured out that you could prioritize the people not committing crime and not cater to the people committing crime. I mean, I'm saying this in the most facetious way possible, but it's just common sense.

10:19And I think it it feels to me like Californians have had enough, and it's just gonna take a a decade or 2 to unwind it. But let's let's double click on immigration since the the great state of Texas has to deal with this more than anybody. Yep. But this is a land of immigrants. We are all immigrants on this land.

10:34Yep. And so that's our tradition. In fact, you're sitting next to 2 extraordinary immigrants. My my best is Chamath and Freiberg. What do you believe at this point in time?

10:43Is America for the Americans who are here, or do you believe we should be getting the best and brightest to come to this country?

10:50Look. Absolutely both. I have, for a long time described my immigration views in in four words. Legal, good. Illegal, bad.

11:00Okay.

11:02I think most Americans, most Texans agree with that.

11:04And most immigrants.

11:06Look. There's a right way to come to this country. There's the way you came to this country. There's the way my dad came to this country. My dad was born in Cuba.

11:13He grew up in Cuba. He fought in the Cuban revolution. When he was a teenager, he fought, was thrown in prison. He was tortured when he was 17 years old. And he came to Texas in 1957.

11:23He he was 18, couldn't speak English. Had a $100 in his underwear, and he washed dishes making 50¢ an hour. But he came legally because he had applied to the University of Texas. He'd gotten in. He came on a student visa.

11:36And he was an 18 year old freshman, and he started going to school here. And he came legally, and he worked and and got a job and went on in time to start a small business and and and

11:45work for him. To see your success? Is he still with us?

11:47Or He is. My dad is 85.

11:49Oh my god. What a dream for him.

11:50He he is my hero. It is he's an incredible he I will say when you have lost freedom, it's personal to you. Yeah. You know, people ask sometimes, you know, why why do you do politics? And and I grew up as a kid.

12:08I would sit on the floor along with my cousin, Bibi, with my dad and and Bibi's mom, my. And she also she was also imprisoned and tortured in Cuba. Mhmm. And we would sit and sit and listen to them tell stories. Yeah.

12:24And all I ever wanted to do from when I was 3, 4, 5 years old was was be a freedom fighter. Yeah. I mean, it was it it's inspiring because what they said and still say, and they're both still going strong, is is look. If the only thing that prevents us from tyranny is having good people in office

12:43Mhmm.

12:43Who will fight for our freedoms. And so I gotta tell you today, I I literally jump out of bed every day because I I look at the US Senate, and I I think it is basically the Roman Colosseum. And and you strap on some armor and you grab a battle axe and and you go fight the barbarians. And and that is that that's an amazing opportunity. I I feel blessed and fortunate every day.

13:06You are in the arena. Yeah.

13:07Do you think it's become we were talking with Roe Connaugh, congressman from California, earlier, today, and we talked about how there might be good policy put forth by 1 of the 2 parties. But the other party's intention is always to get more seats, get more attention, get more votes, and hurt the other party. So we end up having conflict over policy. Do you feel like there's too much of that in DC? And a lot of people talk about the, you know, everything has become too politicized as opposed to you know, I always think about the show.

13:39I love the show The West Wing, and he always talks about the great debate. You know, like, we never have the great debate anymore. We don't talk about the fundamental, you know, policy decisions. We talk about the Republican said this and so and so. It gets personal, and it gets political as opposed to, like, let's all take our hats off and talk about what's the right thing for the country, Doge being a great example of my opinion.

13:57But I'd love to hear your point of view on how things operate in DC today.

14:00Well well, listen. I I agree with your point at the outset, which is that we need to talk to each other. I worry that we are too polarized and and tribalized, that the left only listens to left wing media. The right listens to right wing media. Anyone who disagrees, you scream at them.

14:19The the sense of community and and that we used to have has been badly badly unraveled. You know, on social media, if someone disagrees with you, you unfriend them. And and we're all in this little echo chamber.

14:32But we're all patriots is the sad part. All Americans. All Americans.

14:36But we're we're living in alternate realities. And and so look. What y'all are doing is really important. I'm grateful for this podcast. We gotta talk to each other.

14:45I do a podcast every week called Verdict with Ted Cruz.

14:48Yep.

14:48We've got about a 1000000 unique listeners that listen to the Verdict podcast, and we do it Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Every week, my podcast is beating CNN.

14:58Yeah. It's incredible.

14:59And I think the reason is the same reason people listen to you guys because you're actually talking about issues and you're not just screaming at each other. You know, it's it's not Jerry Springer, go grab a a a chair and fling it at somebody, but it's have a real and substantive conversation. And I'll tell you one of the things that I've done and enjoyed is I've taken the podcast on the road to college campuses.

15:19Mhmm.

15:20And so a couple of

15:21What has that been like?

15:22Well, for example, we did one at at Yale a couple years ago and had about 700 students come out, and I didn't know how the reaction would be. And interestingly enough, about a third of the students were left of center. And and and I know that because it was right after Ketanji Brown Jackson was confirmed. And I made a reference to that, and about a third of the room began cheering. And and I stopped, and I said, hey.

15:45Look. The the fact that you're cheering at that shows that, obviously, we're coming from different places on the political spectrum. I said, I wanna thank you especially for coming here, because you may not agree with me on on everything or even most things.

15:59Yeah.

15:59But but thank you for coming and being part of a conversation. And so we did about 90 minutes of all q and a. And and we had a rule. We said if if you have a hostile question, if you have an antagonistic question, come to the front of the line. And we spent 90 minutes having a real conversation afterwards.

16:17I I went out with an orthodox rabbi on campus, and and we got a drink. And he said he said, Ted, you know what? I've been working on Yale's campus for decades. He said, this is the biggest group of students I've seen have a positive civil constructive conversation on conservative ideas, he said, in 20 years.

16:36Mhmm.

16:36There's something about the podcast format where you're taking a little bit of time. You're not rushed in 6 or 7 minutes like you are on the weekly shows where I see you all the time, and and that's sparring. Yeah. And you you're just trying to get a message out in 3 minutes, 5 minutes. But here, you know, you can open it up, maybe listen to each other, invite us in with different opinions, learn something.

16:56With the specifically the immigration issue, which seems to be the one that's tearing us apart a whole bunch, there's so much consensus. Hey. We we want the border closed. We want it legal, but we also wanna bring in a certain number of people, and we want a system. And, you know, I did my research on this, and places that have consensus like Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, just they they seem to understand that you need to match immigration to the reality of unemployment and which jobs you need.

17:23But the one criticism I have of politicians, which I think you're one of,

17:28the Sadly guilty as charged.

17:29Yeah. Is you you y'all don't talk about it in numbers. We need this many nurses. We need this many doctors. We need this many construction people.

17:37We have 4% unemployment record. Great job, to our politicians in helping that out. You know, we can bring in 2,000,000 people this year. Hey. If it goes up to 5%, we're gonna bring in 1.5.

17:49I I wish that the discussion could be more granular and with numbers, and you guys could actually say it's not 500, it's 450. Because if we were in a business decision here and we do business together and we say, hey, we have to deploy these resources to get this outcome, but it's so contentious and polarized and not fact and number based. Why is that on this issue that you guys can't just put some numbers on paper?

18:11So well, look. There there are a lot of numbers that matter intensely. Let's start at 1 where you talked about low unemployment. As you know, that number can be deceptive because we also have among the lowest labor force participation we've ever had.

18:2362% right now?

18:24And so there are 1,000,000 that have just dropped out of the labor force altogether. They're not measured in in top line unemployment, but it's still a real challenge. We have healthy young adults who should be working, who are not working.

18:37Why aren't they in your mind? Is it because they have the resources to not do that?

18:41Look. I think it and I think it varies state by state, but I think when you have a welfare state where you get paid for not working

18:48Spend incentive.

18:48People end up not working. And the statistics are really crushing that if anyone doesn't work for a year, the odds of their going back to the workforce drop precipitously.

18:59Right.

18:59That that that once someone

19:01Right.

19:01Gets the habit of dependency. I've I've said a bunch of times, you know, I I try to think of of every policy from the perspective of easing the means of ascent up the economic ladder. And I think about, you know, my dad when when he was a teenage kid in Austin washing dishes, thank God some well meaning liberal didn't come to him and and and say, Rafael, let let me take care of you.

19:23Right. Totally.

19:24Just stay home. Let me send you a government check. Don't work so hard. And and and it's utterly destructive. It it it breaks your your self respect, your individual responsibility.

19:35But it comes from an empathetic place center, senator. So and and and I I know this, like, in Yes. You know, in kind of a a liberal setting, you see people in need, you wanna help them, and you use government as a tool to help people in need. And the fundamental issue is that in many cases, that creates an incentive model that makes it very difficult for that solution for that situation to find a solution on its own, a market solution. And over time, it gets bigger and bigger and bigger, and you have cascading effects that I believe we're now realizing in this country with what I estimated somewhere between 40 to 50% of people that are employed in this country employed by government or government, service providers.

20:13And you're right that much of it is not from ill will. And and and but we do need to have a real conversation about what works to lift people into prosperity. And and by the way, all of us know this in our own life. If if your kid let's say you have a kindergartner who's struggling with math. There's not a one of us who would do our kids' math homework.

20:32Yep. We know that's not helping them. That that that that that if your daughter doesn't learn to do arithmetic, it's gonna hurt her for the rest of her life. So you've gotta work through that problem with her even if it'd be easier for you just to finish it for her.

20:45Yes. Right.

20:46We know that in our lives. You know, the old adage of give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.

20:53Right.

20:54We know that with people we love. But yet, when it comes to public policy, you have a lot of people who don't think about it more broadly. I'll say back in 2017, I I did 3 different CNN town hall debates with Bernie Sanders. And listen. I like Bernie because he is an unapologetic socialist Yeah.

21:14And I'm an unapologetic capitalist. And we had 90 minute town hall debates on on which system was better for maximizing human prosperity and abundance. Yep. And we didn't insult each other. Neither of us called each other a son of a bitch.

21:28Yep. We talked about the facts, and and and I'll point out something. Let's take socialized medicine. It's interesting. The ask the advocates of socialized medicine, when I pointed out all of the problems socialized medicine produces in every country in which it's been implemented, the United Kingdom, Canada.

21:46Bernie's answer was, well, it wouldn't be that way here. So the reality would not be here. Every year, about 50,000 Canadians come to America in what they call medical tourism because they can't get the medical care they need in Canada. And I will suggest to you a question, particularly for those of y'all that are Californians, that I love asking advocates of socialized medicine. Why don't California adopt it?

22:10Right. You've got a Democrat governor. You've got a Democrat super majority legislature. There's no constitutional impediment. California could adopt socialized medicine today.

22:18Yep. Right.

22:19It's not the mean old Republicans that are stopping them. And as you know, the legislature looked at it and realized it would bankrupt them. By the way, Vermont, Bernie's home state, They could adopt it and the reason you don't see California or New York or Illinois or Vermont or any blue state in America adopt socialized medicine

22:36That wouldn't work.

22:37Doesn't work.

22:38It wouldn't work and people would flee their state. And so their answer is we wanna do it to everyone in the entire country so you can't flee. Unless you're willing to leave America, you're stuck.

22:48And I think what's challenging, senator, is that then you have compromises that get you to a point where the federal government has a big enough role in health care. Yeah. My opinion is much of the inflation in health care costs arises from the federal government's role in the same way that the federal government has a role in student loans that has driven up the cost of education, and the federal government has a role in providing loans for housing, has also driven up the cost of housing. Education. Education across the board.

23:12It distorts the free market.

23:13But but the the the empathetic solution is we need to provide access to those who can't get it. And then at the end empathetic solution is we need to provide access to those who can't get it. And then at the end of the day, it inflates the cost of all of those services. And, ultimately, the quality of the services erodes, and I'll give you the anecdote real quick. Yeah.

23:24My brother lives in England. They just had a a child, him he and his partner. And they went to the delivery room, and they couldn't get a bed for she was in labor. They could not get a bed to have the baby. I think it took them 36 to 72 hours to actually get into a bed while she was in labor.

23:39It was the most insane, he's calling me, he can't get a bed. It was I'm like, you're living in the frigging UK. This is supposed to be one of the wealthiest nations on Earth. That's the outcome of socialized medicine. And along the way, you get the inflationary effects that we're dealing with in the United States today.

23:53I'm with you on

23:53Shamatha, sorry. Let's, you're the quarterback. K. Quarterback the next 2 weeks of the Trump administration.

24:03Well, on Monday, we're gonna see a flurry of executive orders. I think it'll be in the neighborhood of a 100 executive orders. I'm

24:08a husking about them.

24:09That's the number they're talking about. Wow. It it it it's going to be in that neighborhood.

24:13Shock and awe.

24:14And I actually I'm I'm pretty happy about that. Now look. Will I agree with all 100? I don't know. My guess is I'll agree with the vast majority of them, but I don't know everything that's in there, so we'll see.

24:24And And in some ways, it'll just make it almost impossible for the Democrats to react because where do you focus?

24:30Yes. And and and, Chamath, that's actually a point. You know, I think back to so my wife, Heidi, and I met on the 2000 George w Bush campaign, and and so we both served, as young people in the Bush administration. And and and I I think there is a quantum of outrage, and I call it the arsenic quantum of outrage. If you remember the beginning of Bush 43, one of the first things he did is his EPA revoked a rule on arsenic.

24:58And for, like, 6 weeks, the media saturated the airwaves with the evil Republicans wanna poison our children with arsenic. And, I mean, it was it dominated forever, and they beat the living daylights out of him for. Now look, Monday, when you get a 100 executive orders, I think that's how much outrage there is. Mhmm. And that arsenic quantum of outrage will be directed at everything

25:20It's smeared.

25:22Which makes it very hard for them to oppose anything coherently and directly and gives an opportunity, I hope, for this administration. What I'd like to see is really delivering on the mandate of this election. The outcomes in November were to be

25:38ask that. What were yeah. What were the if you had to distill, what are your specific takeaways as the mandate in priority?

25:44So number 1, secure the border. And and I believe that'll start on January 20th, and it will start by ending catch and release so that when people are apprehended, they are detained, and they're sent back to where they came from. Yeah. I think that will be followed up by going and arresting criminal illegal aliens, going and arresting murderers and rapists and child molesters and and gangbangers. I think all of that will roll out very, very fast.

26:10I think there is also a mandate to end the federal government's war on energy on Texas oil and gas, and that will lower prices at the gas pump, at the grocery store, every bill people are paying. And I think if you look at the top two issues in this election, it it was illegal immigration and safety, and it was inflation and the economy. I think we will also see a lessening of the job killing regulations on small businesses, a return to thriving, booming economic growth. What would those be? Look.

26:47There are a host of them. Energy is is is the easy example where where the the Biden administration's put in over 90 different regulations and executive orders all designed to drive up the cost of energy.

26:58Right. So the input gets higher and everybody suffers. Got it.

27:01And so I expect I expect pretty much all of those to be reversed. Hydrocarbon.

27:06Yeah. And then subsidies for, quote, green energy.

27:10Look. I I think on energy, we ought to pursue all of the above. Mhmm. Beyond that, I think I think there is also a mandate on the economic side. The 2017 Trump tax cuts are expiring this year.

27:23We're going to extend them. My hope is we make them bigger and bolder. That's gonna take some time. We'll do that through what's called the reconciliation process. And then on on foreign policy, I think under Biden, we have abandoned and alienated our friends, and we've shown weakness and appeasement to our enemies.

27:42I think that will stop

27:44Right.

27:44On Monday as well.

27:45Senator, you just said five things, but what you didn't say was Doge. So cutting taxes, there's an inflation problem. There's no way you're cutting taxes and not cutting government spending and not tampering inflation down. Don't we have to cut federal spending? How important is those?

28:00How real is it? Is it a marketing gimmick from your point of view? How much can actually be done? Is it a real you know is is this kind of required legislative authority and it's gonna be a longer form process, or is there gonna be a lot of very quick action?

28:14So and I'm happy to answer that directly. Let me just say one thing you just said there, with respect is incorrect.

28:20Yes.

28:21You said there's no way we're cutting taxes and not cutting spending and having inflation stay down. And I just say that's objectively false because that's exactly what happened in the first Trump term, which is the 2017 tax cuts. CBO had these apocalyptic projections Forecast.

28:37Yep.

28:37About So

28:38you're saying tax revenue grow went up as the as the economy grow.

28:41Tax revenue went up every single year. Right. After we cut the taxes, the revenue from the federal government went up. Sure. We cut taxes.

28:48Sadly, we did not cut spending.

28:50Yeah.

28:51I tried mightily to cut spending Yeah. But we did not have the votes to do it, and inflation still stayed down. So if the economy's booming, you can turn things around. Look. Doge But is there a deficit mandate?

29:04So I am excited about Doge. Elon is a good friend. I admire the hell out of him. I'm thrilled that he's a Texan. You know, I've joked with Elon that that that he doesn't just think outside the box.

29:17He doesn't know there is a damn box. That that's a great thing. Now Elon calls me periodically going, what alright. What the hell is this government thing? How does this work this way?

29:28And I'm I'm trying to give whatever guidance I can on that, but I think how you deal with, a disruptor, in government is going to be an interesting challenge. Vivek is is very smart, very creative. I will say a couple of challenges. Right now look. I I'm excited about Doge.

29:51I wanna see some big, bold, creative ideas. I'm gonna give you 2 warning signs. Number 1, the phrase waste, fraud, and abuse. Mhmm. Anytime someone talks about waste, fraud, and abuse, they don't really wanna cut government spending.

30:04Mhmm. You know why? Because there is no waste, fraud, and abuse caucus. There's no one that says, I'm for the waste. So it's the easy place to go.

30:13We'll cut the waste. If you actually cut real government spending, there is always always always a constituency who's pissed off, who likes the thing they're getting.

30:23Totally. And so

30:24you have lots of politicians who say

30:26They're gonna lose their votes.

30:27Right. Somebody will be mad.

30:29That's right.

30:30And and so that is a challenge. I will say secondly, at least in the first term, Donald Trump did not campaign as a small government conservative and he did not govern as a small government conservative. And in fact, I I will relay a story. At at the end of the first term, you remember we're in COVID and and the government is in the business of sending out checks and more checks and more checks to people all over the country. And Trump wanted the checks to be even bigger.

31:00And a lot of the folks in the White House, they asked me. They said, Ted, can can you go try to talk him talk him down from this ledge?

31:06Yep. Oh, that's a tough job.

31:07So so I went on Air Force 1, and and I'm sitting there with the president. I'm trying to make the case that we don't need these gigantic, stimulus checks. And he goes, Ted, and I get the back of the hand. He goes, Ted, no one ever lost an election by spending too much money. I said, yeah.

31:25But they did bankrupt the country. So I did not succeed then.

31:30Well, you know what you should've done? You should've asked him to keep the same number, but just make the check larger and the signature bigger.

31:35That's a good idea. Look, I'll I'll go with him. He likes big.

31:38Are you a small government conservative?

31:39Very much so.

31:40And is what percent if there if no one was gonna be able to run for reelection, what percent of Congress do you think would support a massive reduction in government agencies? How much of this really is driven by this kind of I gotta get reelected?

31:54So look. It's it's a good question. Right?

31:56What I what versus what my principles tell me.

31:58Yeah. Listen. I I am also a passionate advocate of term limits. So so I have introduced, in every congress a constitutional amendment that would limit senators to 2 terms, limit house members to 3 terms.

32:09Yeah.

32:10I think term limits would change that dynamic in a very significant way.

32:13Right.

32:14And the career politicians in both parties oppose it. Look. On any big spending bill, you unfortunately have a bipartisan coalition in favor of spending. You have essentially all the Democrats and about half the Republicans. There are about 20 of us who will vote against a $1,000,000,000,000 spending bill.

32:33And and and we are frequently begging our colleagues. And to be honest, I don't think we will ever see real spending restraint without strong presidential leadership, which means it will never come from a Joe Biden or Kamala Harris. And look, if if Elon and Vivek convince president Trump that he's gonna lean in aggressively on on cutting spending, great, but that hadn't happened so far.

32:57What would it take for the voters to eventually get there? Because it would require the voters backing a candidate with that message, and it seems like no one sees that because what everyone sees is I wanna get x. And the only way I get x is if I get the government to do x for me.

33:08Yeah. Look. It it varies. It takes electing strong leaders. So I elections matter.

33:15I and and I engage so so I think I've probably campaigned for more candidates for senate, house, and and governorship than any Republican in the country. I mean, I travel all over the country. I endorse candidates, and I follow the old Bill Buckley rule, which is I support the most conservative candidate who can win.

33:33Yeah. Mhmm.

33:34And that varies. Look. Look. A candidate who can win in Texas is different than a candidate who can win in Maine.

33:39Yeah. Right.

33:40And and so but but I can say the problem is you get I can tell you in Texas I mean, when I ran 2012, I ran for senate. I'd never been elected before.

33:51Yeah.

33:52Never been elected to nothing. Yeah. And literally, the last thing I was elected to was student council. By the way, Shamal, you may not remember this. You actually wrote me a check-in the race.

34:01I was gonna tell

34:02that story.

34:02We looked it up. So we were together in Utah. Yep. Peter Thiel had an event where he does his thing, and we had a breakfast. And, Ted was surrounded by sort of,

34:16you know,

34:16a handful of us who were speaking to him, and then what I would say is, like, every traditional democrat from Central Casting. And he went through the firing squad, and he came out the other side, and I thought, wow. This is really great. And so then I I was I was very happy to donate.

34:31Well, I would I was

34:32you're you're a dumb donor back then.

34:34I was a dumb donor, but I would but see, here's the thing, like and I think what you're getting what I think what the senator speaks to, which is what I agree with is ideology matters. And so when you make decisions about how you think the country should run, you should stay loyal to that. And I think what happens instead is people stay loyal to a party. Yep. And it's the minute you do that that the whole thing breaks, and this is what's broken.

34:59And I think what the great thing that Donald Trump did was he basically conducted a hostile takeover of the Republican Party. Undoubtedly.

35:06Yeah. And then And that is going to be committed seppuku. And that's

35:09the most important thing that happens.

35:11I mean, you you don't have to go are reset.

35:13You don't have to go and kick the coax ring. What will they say? What will all the infrastructure say? What does Soros say? Yeah.

35:20All of that is done. The whole thing's flipped over. Hey, senator, you you that's very powerful. I think

35:24You had an anecdote for me 2 nights ago. I don't know if you're willing to share it about a conversation regarding Denmark and Greenland. Do you wanna tell us what you think

35:33so happens here? Look. My view on Denmark and Greenland so I did a podcast 2 weeks ago on Denmark, Greenland, and Canada, and I did all all 3 of them on my Verdict podcast. And and I put them in a spectrum. Let's start with Canada.

35:48I think the president's Canada remarks were just trolling. I think he was just screwing with Trudeau. I think he was sitting at the table and deciding that. You know? Why are you even a country?

35:58You ought to be a state. You should be a governor.

35:59It's not that I send JCal texts like that all the time. So now we're like

36:03You know, I would have paid frankly to be sitting at that table to see Trudeau's face.

36:07In fact. Right.

36:08Look. It was reminiscent if you remember the 2016, campaign on the debate stage where Trump turned Rand Paul was at the end, and he's like, why are you even on this stage? And what is it with your hair?

36:20Yeah. I mean,

36:20I mean, it was the same sort of comment that was just Right. Just messing with him.

36:24Yeah.

36:26I put that in one. And by the way, that may be the most epic troll of all time because I think that literally pushed Trudeau into resigning.

36:32Crazy,

36:33I mean, it it's a fair

36:34Why would he not

36:35why would he do that? Go to Mar a Lago? I mean, such stupid thing to do. It just should have been like, yeah. You know, we're our own sovereign country banks.

36:42Well, he was already I think we

36:43He go he likes he likes to go with the trend, so that was the trend.

36:46Yeah. That's what happens when you're a weathervane.

36:48It's just

36:48I will say I I couldn't resist tweeting and said, you know, Trudeau's lasted really long for Assad and Fidel Castro.

36:54Yeah. Yeah.

36:55Which Oh, wait. Wait.

36:57It's close to home.

36:57I mean no. No. No. Keep telling us about

36:59alright. Okay.

37:00So by Denmark, Canada, Denmark. Yeah. Denmark, Greenland.

37:03Greenland, on the other hand, I think is a very serious policy proposal.

37:07Yeah.

37:07And and I think there are you know, Trump mentioned this in the first term, and a lot of people dismissed it. Oh, this is just Trump talking wacky.

37:14Yeah.

37:15But I think there are enormous national security and economic reasons why acquiring Greenland makes a ton of sense. And you look at Greenland's location on the Arctic, it has incredibly prime location on the Arctic. If if from a national security perspective, God forbid, we ever get in a shooting war with China or with Russia, ICBM's are coming right over the Arctic.

37:39Right.

37:39And Greenland is a prime location to deal with that. We're also seeing more shipping lanes coming in and around the Arctic. And China and Russia are both competing for prize prized access there. Mhmm. Greenland makes an enormous sense from that perspective.

37:55It also makes an enormous perspective from critical minerals and rare earth minerals. They have vast amounts. And so what I said is, look, I think we should pursue this seriously. I'll tell you I had a conversation this week with the Danish ambassador to the United States. And and look.

38:11Denmark's a little freaked out by all this conversation. Yep. And and I'll tell you what I told the ambassador. I said, listen. Denmark is our friend.

38:18You're our ally. You will continue to be our friend and ally. But friends and allies can have conversations. We can have and and the ambassador said, well well, Greenland's not for sale. I said, that's fine.

38:28Everything's for sale. We're gonna have a conversation.

38:30And and by the way, if you maintain that, one of the things this has produced

38:30is a growing independence movement in things this has produced is a growing independence movement in Greenland. Totally. And if you do nothing, you may end up getting nothing for Greenland because they break off on their own.

38:42Totally. Right.

38:43Now look, for it to happen, I think you would probably have to have a referendum on Greenland. Yep. I find it quite possible that the Greenlanders, about 50,000 of them

38:54Yep.

38:55Would say, wait a second. I get to be an American?

38:56Their poll just showed positive results. They just did a survey there.

38:59I mean, to become an American is in many ways the greatest gift we can give anyone on planet Earth.

39:05Totally.

39:06And the billions in investment if Greenland became an American territory, the difference it would make for Greenland 100,000,000,000

39:14for the territory of Denmark. They would their federal debt or their national debt's about a 150,000,000,000. They'd have a 50,000,000,000 surplus they could build a pension

39:20plan around. See, they wouldn't want it back.

39:21That's why we haven't

39:22You could spend another insult themselves. You could spend another 10,000,000,000 to put everyone in a great situation for the rest of their life that's a resident of Greenland, and that becomes an American territory and

39:30then it's pretty cool. A whole new philosophy for us. I think we just go right to 60 states.

39:34How, make an open offer?

39:35No. But so so it's and and yeah. And and sorry. How does the president and the administration, how are they gonna tackle this or give any insights into what's gonna happen here?

39:40So, look, Ken Howrey, you guys know I know is a good friend who has been nominated to be ambassador to Denmark. I've talked with Ken

39:46friend of ours. Yep.

39:47Talked with Ken just yesterday about this. Yep. I think we need to lean in and try to negotiate both with with Denmark and Greenland. That's right. I'm certainly from the senate gonna push it.

39:56But I wanted to contrast it. Is Canada become gonna become a state? No. But Greenland listen. We acquired

40:02Make it a protectorate.

40:03Like Louisiana purchase. We purchased from France. Alaska, we purchased from Russia. I mean, there's a long history of this.

40:10Totally. Puerto Rico next? Let's go. If they wanna come on board,

40:14why not? Well, it's an American too. This is a it's

40:16already a protectorate.

40:17It's an American And it's like it's not a state. And so Panama,

40:20I view

40:21as kind of in the middle of the 2. Yeah. Right. And and Panama is a little more complicated. Look.

40:25I think Jimmy Carter giving away the Panama Canal remains one of the most spectacularly stupid decisions a president has ever done

40:33in all.

40:33So I

40:34think it was profoundly harmful to US national security interest, to our economic interest.

40:38Yep.

40:40That being said, it's been long enough that unwinding it is really tough. Yeah. However, president Trump, if you listen to what he's saying on Panama, he's he's got actually some very sophisticated legal arguments that he's making. Number 1, when we gave the Panama Canal to Panama, technically sold it for a dollar, we had a binding agreement that laid out the terms of that transfer. Yep.

41:03And one argument that president Trump has put forth is that Panama is in violation of that agreement because they have allowed China to effectively seize control of the canal. How is that? Because a Chinese state owned enterprise owns a building on one end of the canal and on the other end of the canal. And should we be at a point of conflict military or other with China, it's not difficult to imagine those Chinese state owned enterprises using that location to try to shut down anyone traversing the country.

41:34Like they voided the contract. I

41:36that's that's a pretty powerful argument. The second argument and I had breakfast this morning with with president Trump. He had breakfast with all the Republican senators, 2 and a half hours. He gets sworn in tomorrow and he spent 2 and a half hours

41:47That's stamina.

41:48Stream of consciousness talking. We talked about Panama. He's pointing out, the president said this morning, said US Navy ships pay double what any other country's Navy ships pay.

42:00Right.

42:00He said that that American commercial ships pay 58% more Yep. Than other nations pay. Look. We need to drill down into those facts. But on the face of it, I think there's a powerful argument that that's inconsistent with the terms of the agreement.

42:17And is the final outcome of this that we get total control of the Panama Canal back? Probably not. I think that's a high lift. But in many ways, I think Trump is negotiating on price. And I could easily see an outcome where both navy ships and commercial ships that are American pay much, much lower rates, number 1.

42:37And number 2, critically, that we get China the hell out of the canal. And and that if we accomplish those 2, that would be a massive improvement from US interest.

42:46Have you, I'm sure you've been paying attention, beyond the things that you've been a part of, the confirmation hearings. Can you give us the sort of blow by blow of where you think things have gone well, where there is room for improvement, whether there's gonna be some spotty weather ahead?

43:02Look. I've been really happy so far. I think the array of cabinet nominees has been very, very strong.

43:09Were there a couple that where you thought going in, we have to this one will be a little bit harder than the other and

43:14Well, look. Clearly, the most bumpy was Matt Gaetz, and and they withdrew Matt Gaetz.

43:17Yeah.

43:18He was not gonna get confirmed. There there were multiple Republican senators who were gonna vote now.

43:22Right.

43:23But I will say, I mean, they withdrew that nomination pretty quickly.

43:26Pretty I

43:26think that was strategic. They set him up the hill to take the

43:29first two off. And Pam Bondi seems amazing.

43:30Pam Bondi's gonna be terrific. She's gonna get confirmed easily. I think right now, every Trump cabinet nominee gets confirmed.

43:37That's great.

43:38Pete Hegseth is clearly who they're shooting at the most. I don't think they've scored real blood. I I did a whole podcast on the Hegseth, confirmation hearing where it spoke volumes that the Democrat virtually all of the Democrat attacks were personal attacks based on anonymous charges, typically with no evidence and with no one coming forward and putting their name on it. And they had virtually nothing to say about the job to which he'd been nominated and what he intends to do as the secretary of defense. I I think that that fundamentally is a flawed strategy.

44:13I I think everyone gets through right now.

44:15Do you think that you'll see any Democrat senators support any of the candidates

44:21Yes. Rubio? So Rubio will get 90 votes. He could get north of 95 votes. It'll be a huge bipartisan vote for Rubio.

44:30John Ratcliffe for CIA, he'll get significant bipartisan votes. Sean Duffy at Transportation, he'll get a bunch of bipartisan votes. Howard Lutnick at Commerce, my guess is he'll get bipartisan votes, although he hasn't had his hearing yet, so we'll see. So there will certainly be some. Pam Bondi, I think Pam is terrific.

44:48Brooke Brook Rowlands? Brooke will get bipartisan votes. Part of it is alright. Let's take Sean Duffy. So I chaired the confirmation hearing for Sean Duffy, secretary of transportation.

44:58It was a lovefest. Why was it a lovefest? Because everyone wants a bridge or a road in their state.

45:05So if you're a democrat,

45:06Yeah. Like, wait. You're Santa Claus and you're giving out 100 of 1,000,000,000 of dollars? I want some.

45:10Yes.

45:10Right. And so everyone wants it. And so Brooke Rollins at at Department of Agriculture, again, everyone wants stuff for ag and farmers in their state. So in that sort of role, it's easy for it to be a lovefest. Pam Bondi, even though she did very well, I'd be surprised if democrats vote for just the nature of attorney general in this politicized environment.

45:34My guess is I think on the committee, the d's are are gonna vote no, but I think Pam will hold every Republican. And so I I think she she gets through easily.

45:42Bobby? Senator?

45:44I think he makes it through. I spent an hour with him. It'll be interesting. This is I was talking with him about this. Will any democrats vote for him?

45:53Obviously, he's been a democrat his whole life until, like, 12 minutes ago.

45:56They hate him.

45:57And they really they do view him as a Judas for daring to to to change. Yeah.

46:02All of us. It's still

46:03look. JK l too. You look at, like, red dye number 3. You look at what what Bobby is doing. I'm I am re what I

46:11do more change before he's become secretary. And then the whole system is

46:15so screwed. Like, let him cook. Let's see what he can do.

46:19And his willingness to take on corruption. Corruption of of big pharmaceutical companies that get in bed, with big government that they perpetuate their monopolies using government power. So I I talked to Bobby, for example, about a bill that I've I've been fighting for a long time that I call the Results Act. The Results Act says that if any pharmaceutical, any medical device is approved in another major developed country, so approved in Canada or Japan or the EU, that the FDA has 60 days to approve it here or it's deemed automatically approved by operation.

46:52Love it. Wow. Brilliant. Like,

46:54I I'm gonna fight for I have been fighting for that, but I think now I have an HHS secretary that that that agrees with it. Yeah. And I do think if you look at these cabinet nominees, the most striking characteristic of virtually all of them is that they're change agents, that they're going to fundamentally

47:10change Yeah. Disruptors.

47:11And and that's exciting. We need that.

47:13Alright. Listen. Your people

47:14have been trying to get your hands for

47:1620 minutes. But you know what?

47:18Let the man cook. Yeah. He's just

47:20a guy. I gotta tell you. Another president. Our bestie, Phil Hellmuth. Yeah.

47:24Every time he sees you, comes back to our poker game, says what a great poker player, what a gentleman.

47:29He drops your name.

47:30I can get him on the phone right now. I told him call him right now. He never does it. He was a 100% right. You are amazing.

47:37Great to have you on

47:38the phone.

47:38Tempting me with poker chips. I mean, there's

47:40no way get you in a game. No. No. No. No.

47:41You don't make it to California much, but when you do, come play. Just so

47:43you know, the boots play.

47:45And and and we need scotch and a cigar and and I am perfectly happy happy I mean,

47:50maybe we'll maybe we'll go play it often.

47:51I can't stand all these gang balls where everyone's in in tuxedos, but but but my happy place is sitting around the poker table.

47:57Oh, man. You're gonna fit right in there.

47:59In good scotch.

48:00So great to have you, and, congratulations on the big win, and thank you for your service. Appreciate it.

48:04Thank you very much.

48:05Thanks a lot.

48:05Thank you. That was great.