JRE MMA Show #38 with Gaston Bolanos & Kirian Fitzgibbons

00:00four three two one yeah and we're live gentlemen what's up good see again what's happening happy to be here man they're happy to have you here man thanks you are the only guy right now that I know of that is fighting at the highest level in three combat sports okay MMA Muay Thai and kickboxing that's crazy thanks man I just keep your head together I don't know like last time warming up in Rome actually was the first time like warming up for a kickboxing fight I threw a spinning back I better not do that you can do a spinning back fist though right I did which I landed two of them do you see the what's happening lately where a lot of guys are hitting foreheads with their arms and snapping their arm page did it obviously who else did it recently Paul Felder did it yeah a couple guys have done it they spin and you catch foreheads and that is not a good combination

00:58I feel I feel like the kick boxing glove protects you a little bit more than that right all he does yeah you know for ounce 10 ounce there's a little bit of cushion there that might protect you a little more yeah it's still I don't know it's still something that you know when I first started fighting kickboxing he was like I don't know them and like be careful with it cuz I would like kind of catch like the middle of my arm rights you know it's a little different than this being elbow but just I've been my opinion a lot more safer to throw now what happens if you throw a spinning backfist in kickboxing and you really kind of catch them with like the meat above the elbow it's illegal it's legal or no it's illegal it's your only way about here no you have to in based on in whether it's glory or it's k1 or it's Bellator it has to be with the back knuckle back of the pad of that you

01:49can't be the side cannot be a hammer fist that is a rule that's weird you'll get a point deducted and when if you if you cause more damage than you might gonna get DQ'd yeah when Sato knocked out Joe in that Bellator fight if you watch it it was a hammer fist and there was a lot of talk about whether it was legal or illegal but it wasn't a back fist it was a hammer hmm yeah it's not just yeah it's illegal per is ka and and most governing bodies so when that's out Joe showing in that kickboxing fight when they first so because they spun MMA because he landed with the back of the hand or the side of the hand it's actually illegal it's considered a foul did anybody bring it out they mentioned it but I think at that time Joe had come off of that Simon situation with lion fight and he was like move on you know you know so he did make a big deal about it that do hits

02:40hard yeah yeah and Joe's so reckless he's so aggressive you know like he has these moments of like extreme emotion where he just yes and that dude he wanted to knock that dude out so bad after he got knocked out in the MMA fight yeah he wanted to knock him out in his rules and I think that is what you saw with Cody this weekend - yeah one fight yeah man we were talking about that and watching the replays like you could see in his face that every shot he was trying to knock him out with as soon as I saw him walk I mean not walk out I said he looked ok walking out as soon as like the bell rung I was like he just did it he looked a little stiff ya know and I was hoping like he would shake it off getting the rhythm like land a couple jabs just like you know we were working on when I spar with him a couple times leading up to the TJ fight mm-hmm I'll go up to alpha male to do my

03:34wrestling I want my grappling you know they have so many hundred thirty-five hundred forty-five pounders up there that it you know only an hour half away drive right it only makes sense to go up there exchanged knowledge mm-hmm so you know as soon as I saw him walk out and started the fight I was like I hope she's he just shakes it off and like gets into his groove like when he fought Dom like that was artwork that was that was incredible he just let him come to him and I was hoping that that was what was his game plan knock his ass out no he wanted to use more wrestling from what we were talking Danny and all those guys about he wanted to use more wrestling and definitely a lot of kicks yeah he wanted to kick a little bit as well but he also wanted to just do the same thing to what he did to DOM just kind of like peace him up and I mean considering the last fight he

04:23almost finished him in the first round when they first fought he was like I can I can do this I could run this guy well I think he could finish anybody yeah that's it but it's he's got to go about it the right way yeah and I thought he was going about it the right way initially with the kicks yeah and I was like look even if these are just landing on the arms like these are gonna soften TJ yeah brutal he was throwing some brutal kicks it and it was a totally different thing he was a he was adding a whole different aspect to the fight he did in the first fight anyway it wasn't it it it when he started throwing the kick so I was like yeah there's the gameplan I said would I see what's going to the ground and he was like yes he couldn't touch me I'm like he's starting to getting his rhythm but that's what I hate about immediate rematches after a knockout it's just it's still in your

05:11head it's just the confidence level the anger the emotion like you know Henry to three years between his fight with DJ where he got you know finished in the first round more fights fighting some other people it was a different human use it absolutely but if he had fought DJ the very next fight who knows how that goes right but it saw it was that would be hard to sell right unless Henry was the champion and DJ took the crown from him this is the whole idea was that you know Cody beat Dom Cody was the champ and that Cody was defending the honor of alpha-male and TJ was this snake in the grass they were gonna put away you know that was the whole idea behind the Ultimate Fighter and this it was just so I don't think there's ever been a fight other than maybe Ronda and Misha that had more emotion just more you know bad blood yeah yeah the Ronda Nimisha thing

06:05might have been worse as people don't remember how hated Ronda was after that Missha fight she wouldn't shake Nisha's hand yeah like me she tried to shake her hand around I was like just walk away whoa like why was interviewing her disrobe like the whole audience was booing those emotional fights they're so compelling to watch but man they're so fraught with peril for the fighters absolutely if you look at his face this kid has 50 fights yes 50 fights amateur Muay Thai MMA kickboxing back to a junior the only scars you're gonna see on his face are from a fight where he fought Damian early whose brother had does a lion fight that was a lion fight I saw that fire yeah the varying he was very I wanted to put him away I dropped him what twice once because Gaston was a rising star online fight at the time and the family the the Early's the Chastain's and everything's

07:02cool now but at the time the parents were very aggressive on line towards Gaston they were like a few parents yeah they won't fight the town won't fight our boy well one you're not even in his weight class you know and then you know they said oh we can make the weight so okay if you make the weight we'll take the fight and they made the way that made the weight but it was the one and I've said it says anything to ya hey Eddie and then who Eddie episode oh my one of my teammates oh we've been trained together for what like five years now yeah and what was the problem with them they fought Damien and Eddie fought 155 pounds which is what Eddie they're they both fight it that way think he wanted to come down to fight me but Eddie landed and legal elbow in the back of the neck it wasn't it didn't seem like it was out hard but it's it ended the fight and Eddie got DQ'd and then the

07:51world they're just talking mad saying oh you know you wanted you did that on purpose and like Eddie if you meet Eddie you got he's the coolest guy he's a smooth silky smooth that's his nickname silky smooth amazing yeah it seems so chilling there and that just just key really knows how to pace himself and just extend his energy perfectly I mean really interesting fighter to watch he's he's my favorite people to work with yeah yeah yeah he's he's such a any such an amazing human being man the best part is is that Gaston hated it I hated it what if I hate it it rains house is pretty great Eddie yeah and so growing up as an amateur Eddie Eddie started what like two years after yeah about two years I Fred didn't you know I always like shake his hands Sylvia when I saw him but we they can't that he was from his coach hated me did not like me at all yeah and so Gaston was fighting in San

08:56Francisco and it was the first time the guest I never got knocked out and he got knocked out he was supposed to you know there's an Gaston at the time locally in the Bay Area he was the guy you know the amateur kid he's a star everybody'll 18 years old beating everybody fighting anybody anybody in any way class from you know 130 137 to 150 I will fight anybody I think I was just trying to get the experience the first two years of my junior core not so the first year I fought as a junior I beat pretty much every everybody my age and back then the rules were like if you're under 16 you can't if they're if you're under 18 you're a gene who got to get me in trouble man so we we just faked my my birth my often yeah so I was a so I was 18 two years before that I was 18 yeah I haven't fine adults early people do that that's know but nobody would fight him he couldn't fight

09:53he never doing that or he'd beat everybody Junior so we said okay so we made him 18 and he fought and he got and he got knocked out just he cut too much weight for a fight and it you know you go as you as you learned he cut down to 37 and and it was a little as you walk around wait well the thing is I was planning on fighting so what was the camp over fighting my age yeah yeah so we were fight we were supposed to fight I won 42 which I was fine with and at the time I probably could have made one 135 but the week of is I hate your opponent dropped out his teammate will fight you but he'll fight you 137 oh yeah and you know that extra pounds is a lot but going from 140 yeah exactly I was like walking on 149 yeah going like another 12 pounds at that age I was like 18 I wasn't I didn't do it right it just didn't work out for me yeah so he got caught and I

10:43was winning the fight oh yeah absolutely he's one of the fight destroying I mean and again this guy I think he works at Walmart now that's not a this is great kid power right hand disrespect to Walmart no disrespect but he got caught and in between rounds I could see it as like a deer headlight he just Gaston was on autopilot he was winning but he wasn't there so he gets caught he gets dropped and literally Eddie's camp was just swarmed the ring screaming and yelling gasps Dawn's out and I remember clearly seeing Eddie and bad guys corner like you know just like yeah and like he was just part of the camp doing whatever but all his friends were doing and since then I was like oh we all we did not like we all we all hated the camp we all hated Eddie and then one of one of our team my teammates fought Eddie same thing but cut it he thought the Brooks Brooks cut him right on top of

11:38the head Brooks my he had to have staples and everything and same thing they they were just like treating us like they were the and I was like these guys man emotions involved in camps I mean it's it's such a wasted thing it doesn't it's definitely bad for the fighters because it creates this added element like fighting is hard enough yeah as it is but when you add all this hate and disdain the only thing you could potentially do is if you don't have a good work ethic which obviously you do it'll get you up yeah you know like something like do you remember when Buster Douglas fought Mike Tyson mmm when Buster Douglas was a 42 to 1 underdog but everybody knew Buster had talent but he was like a lazy guy yeah then his mom died and what his mom died he just made a decision he was like this you know he was hurting he was in pain and he's like I'm gonna train like

12:30a wild animal for this fight I'm gonna train you Lea I've never trained before I'm gonna I'm gonna train like a real world champion and he came out there jabbing and hooking off the jab and everybody's like what the was going on like the combination that he knocked Tyson out with was like holy yeah well only achieve those Heights again only fight I've ever bet on my entire life was that 550 bucks 53 dollars yeah but emotions are never good I mean that's like a rare time where emotions work good cuz it got a lazy guy right to the gym to train like a real professional and the thing with Eddie is that without question Eddie is the glue that holds our team together he is the best thing that ever happened to our gym kiss his ego he isn't like his ego it's just like not Wade you just do whatever is like hey you want to work you want to do this what like it what do you want to do he's

13:26not there's no like we're both alpha males right say you know yeah he's a what do you want to do man you want to run you want to work those are the guys that grow man the guys that grow or the guys help teach you and hope has helped our team grow so much and when he came to me basically like we literally same thing happen when guest on is that because Gaston was a little prick when I met him too but Eddie he and he'll admit it he was like you know he's just around the wrong people I watched him fight in his last amateur fight and I hated him and I was rooting for him to lose I was literally sitting in the back being a hater going this is awesome and he started losing a fight he blew his knee out and he started losing and while the fight was happening I started rooting for him and I hated him but his heart and his spirit was forever sought when the most town's kids ever

14:13saw I blew his knee out blew his ACL kept fighting through the whole fight it was one most impressive performance I've ever seen after the fight I went back into the locker room who's by himself crying his coach was in his team has his team left because he you know he was what undefeated or world champion world champion amateur world champion like he he I racked up a ton of fights and you know the team his team was behind him because he was winning but then he loses against the guy that he had beaten before yeah and then his team was gone and I went back and I told him I said listen I said this probably doesn't mean much to you I said but I want to tell you that I am more impressed with you and losing this fight and what I saw from you than in any time else that you show boated you won you destroyed people the heart you displayed you are one of the best fighters I have ever seen in my

14:59life three months later he hit me up brought ice cream came to CSA and he said hey can I train here brought ice cream brought ice cream I saw I saw him walked in with his ice cream I was like what is going on right now guest:i is he here guest on ko me no he did no Eddie said if Eddie trains here I'm leaving because I'm gone how long did it take you to warm up to him we sparked ones and you know Karen had a real talk with me like listen man I'm you know I'm the head coach here and like I mean I'm your I'm your dad like relax I know what I'm doing when have I failed you you know I'm telling you this you know if he if he's if he's who he we think he is or we thought he was you know like I'll I'll know he'll leave but you got to give him the opportunity and when he saying that he's telling the truth I was his legal guardian at the time he threatened to

15:52leave the first question on my mouth was are you gonna leave the gym are you gonna leave my house yes it's gonna be weird to be training somewhere else 15 I became I was maybe 18 hey nobody yeah yeah became his parents moved back to Peru and I became his legal guardian so you finished school here in the US and he came to live with me and I put him to put him into college and all that yeah a year before that that's a tight relationship here before that I was commuting so I had I was training at fairtex Mountain View at the time and I was coaching there and he was coaching there every couple days and then you know we 2008 happened South Korea if ma he was the coach for the u.s. national muy Thai team and you know we just we just clicked we were just like you know you when I when I met him at fair text I was teaching and I was hitting a heavy bag he came walking

16:52up to me it's like he's 14 15 he's got his picture on the front window at fairtex Mountain View so he's you know cuz he's a good-looking kid he was a surfer and modeling and all that so he walks up and he rolls up ish he rolls up his shorts next week those who are you man and I'm like oh my god I'm Kerry okay yes what do you do here I teach yes I never see here before Johnson ons my coach starts kicking the bag click in the bag oh my god ok cool alright good to know so then Johnson on couldn't coach the national team in 2008 in Korea so as a fairtex coach they asked me if I wanted to go I said yeah so I get onto the plane on my way to Korea for the World Championships and I see this the connection that connection that the connection a connection I was like and why is he here and I see this and I this little and I'm like hahaha I hate this kid I couldn't stand him and

17:40so we get there and I'm like he's gonna get murdered and I'm happy I'm glad he's gonna he's gonna learn a lesson he's a valuable lesson I didn't cut way at a time and I I was fighting the returning returning two-time gold medal is that if my oh my first ever gross grown-ass man his but he made his amateur debut at the World Championships against the returning champion who was like was Becca staying it was a biggest and Ian kid like really really good probably eighty fights he was 17 yeah so he was 17 about to make the jump into you know a class the next year so I'm literally I'm writing out his parents name and phone number so I can call them after this piece kills your amateur debut pretty much amateur debut against an amateur world champion yeah at the World Championships he was fine yes it was it was crazy it was I didn't even know I didn't even know cuz I was just going I

18:34was I'm just gonna mime in my mind I was gonna go in there and this kid up even though he was way taller than me and like I wasn't cutting away at the time these these guys cut weight they take you know all those countries are Eastern Bloc they take it very seriously because if you get a gold medal there you're pretty much set for life yeah boy types huge internationally most people don't understand it at that time 2008-2009 it's kind of the dark era of international Muay Thai here in America the United States Muay Thai Federation which is kind of like the Olympic the US Olympic Committee because it's not an Olympic sport yet it was literally who can afford to go there's no government funding there's no there was no selection process and literally we had a team of six people yeah right Thailand's got 40 Russia's got 50 people we went there were six people and Anthony Lin

19:22who was the president of fairtex USA was the founder of us MF he was the poster boy at fairtex just as a kid and you fight Chad he's a good-looking kid that kicked really well so I will take him over there be good experience for him the whole time I'm like this kid's gonna get murder no way I mean I had no idea what I was walking into I had a few smokers so how did it go he goes out I want him to tell oh you know God though I go out there I just like get hidden though holy this guy hits like a man it's really hard but I was just I just didn't care I just went in there and I gave it all I had I really did and I was really disappointed in my performance because I really truly believed I was going to win the fight I in there to win even though I had no not much experience and I didn't have 8080 fights like this I had zero I had maybe a couple of smokers to

20:13amateur fights when I was like 12 and 13 but that's about it and one boxing fight but that was it this guy had 80 and a lot of them were probably professional fights so absolutely I think there's no such thing as amateur my tie in in Europe like I mean yeah they consider that like be class but they still fight without shin guards they still do all this and like when they go in there they they're going in there to win and I thought I mean I lost I knew I had lost a fight but I'd lost a split decision it was crazy yeah crazy to go in there with it I can say and like I mean I'm I mean I knew something was up when I saw my match up was like an ounce and this guy's he didn't have his full name videos they only had his first name I was like they know this guy cause they didn't is this a guest on blinds against Moses back or something like that and so whatever

21:03happened to him I think we saw him the next year the next year he went into like a doll class but it was like it so there's because and there's a class a causes for mozypro scope right he went straight into a class after fighting me his coach beat the out of him after losing utter when a split decision against me this beat him destroy in front of us in the light because he heard because he heard I was that was only like my third fight or like my amateur debut right he was a highly and you know Americans were and they beat him in front of you like yeah how so beat like just slap the out of him like one of the worst things I've ever seen yeah yeah it's very very different over there and in the fight the crowd got behind Gaston because he was doing very dynamic things he was and I was really small too I was only like what five five five four of the time this guy was like

21:54511 and in between rounds my light switch went off with him because literally I go in between rounds and I go I go look over there I said look I said this is the previous world champion I said you are going toe-to-toe with him I said you he is tired and he looks up at me he goes gasps not goes I'm not tired Americans don't get tired I'm like number one calm down your Peruvian okay take it easy number two you're the cutest thing ever I love you to death and from that moment on this kid has literally been my son and what sealed it for me is while we were backstage this kid was getting beat within an inch of his life by his coach Gaston takes off his jersey walks over and interrupts the beating and gives his jersey because that's kind of customary to give exchange jersey he's interrupted the beating yeah Hobbs is beating going on for so they walked off he wasn't even like his team

22:47had kind of left them to his coach just walked him back and just like started slapping the out of him and then I stopped and I was like how long was he slapping him for well like the walk back was like was like a ten minutes yeah just like smacking of pretenders parading yeah yeah it's bad everybody was like oh what's going on over there yeah it's not the best way to motivate something he went didn't he won he won the whole tournament he warned yeah because I was probably as toughest fight though man yeah the the the crazy thing about that is this you know in America people don't even understand that Muay Thai could be that big somewhere else that it could be that important to people you know it's more times a mystery to me in the sense that I just don't understand why it never caught on I really don't get it I think it's it's part of its the music part of

23:44its the the the ritual part of it is just the way MMA blew up I mean if you look at they go through all the Y crew and everything in Europe if it's muy Thai yeah if it's kickboxing no but if it's Muay Thai yeah but like he was the first literally he was the first junior that the US ever sent to the World Championships ever he was by himself and he was the only junior ever today there are 16 juniors fighting in Thailand at the Junior World Championships they went eight and Oh today unless some momentum huge momentum right now we're not in the public not ODEs in the fighters themselves yes it's not publicly known but right now the best junior team at the Junior World Championships is the United States have you thought about that though why is that like why well how come no one can figure out a way to make it exciting or make it put it on television and let people know

24:38like hey this is probably one of the most dynamic combats definitely one of the most dynamic combat sports in the world next to MMA a lot of it has to do with money it's it's promoters will come in and they will be the next best thing lion fight got it right the most and then they lost the access TV deal what happened with that if you asked lion fight they lost the deal because access TV wanted too much commitment if you ask ask this TV lion fight was canceling too many shows it depends on who you ask but so now what are they on like ESPN 3 or something no flow elite combat stream yeah nobody knows about a like yeah which is hard to get people to watch it on access TV I mean access TV is a fairly fringe cable channel absolutely some it's again much like MMA I mean it was the right place right time right recipe Ultimate Fighter on the right night and yeah great fight at the end

25:38and all of a sudden everybody's talking about it you know story better than anybody it that hasn't happened for Muay Thai yet and it's and it's a shame and I've been around it now coach Miriam Kevin you know these guys have carried Muay Thai in their shoulder for four years nobody knew who it was how does Bellator kickboxing ratings do it honestly I mean it does as well as maybe a two-year-old rerun of cops unfortunately yeah you know it does it does better than glory did well this is why well that's weird right yeah why was it do better than glory I think just because Authority ties to the Bellator name so Joe Schilling has decided no more kickboxing he's no more more timeless is he only doing he's doing it for financial reasons yeah he's in his 30s think you probably realizes like how many years you have left five six years left maybe if everything goes great

26:33nothing gets blown out you know and he's just decided you know that's that bothers me it me too it's a labor of love for Scott Coker literally he's convinced Paramount to keep it going because they believe in him he's doing this he started off with kickbox exactly because he started out with try stripes was originally k1 yeah we just it just bothers me I just don't I don't get it you know I watch I'm a big fan of boxing I love boxing but it's not as fun more times more fun to watch it's it's more exciting and I used to love watching lion fight I was so happy when it was on I have all of them recorded on my DVR you know and now good luck trying to find muy Thai on TV yeah and it's tough I mean I mean not to toot our horn but I mean when it comes to Muay Thai we're the biggest gym in North America and we have the most active fighters and it's hard to get my people where they need to

27:32be there are other show step up you know triumphant is on fight pass that's a great show Friday Night Fights is trying lion fight is still around you know I'll always support lion fight for you know but he'll we helped build that brand to the best as we could but right now regionally Denis Warner in SoCal is always gonna have shows triumphant good Friday Night Fights is good glory you know they're not really behind American talent yet they're just they're just not well the problem is they do a lot of shows in Europe and these European fighters are extremely popular over there absolutely I mean if they had their druthers they would do Badr Hari every weekend absolutely that's they would do you know I mean that guy sells out arenas oh it's kind of crazy okay scary he's so crazy we're just playing a video the other day slapping some hotel desk person walked behind the desk and

28:25smack this kind of yeah he gets arrested for breaking a guy's chin stomping a guy's shin in half he's so crazy yeah yeah I mean he's like a very odd combination of a lethal fighter and a yeah he's both for sure yeah for sure and he wants you to know you know what mood is the end today which music yeah well you know he's the most compelling story right now in in European kickboxing yeah for sure Oh without question they announced collision two and they didn't even put his image up and all of a sudden people are excited just because of him and Rico's first are they supposed to fight again is that what's gonna happen I think that's the plan that's where they're going now he broke his arm in that first fight do they know how to visit a pre-existing injury is just something to happen in the middle of a scramble it looked to me blocking a kick is what it looked like to me

29:17and again if you block a kick with one the owners not gonna take that it's just not gonna right you know you need to reinforce the block Rico's a big to it so he's your honor you know Rico's unusual too and he's a big guy but he fights very technically and he's got great cardio yeah it moves really well yeah man his gas tank is fantastic for a bit for a big guy definitely yeah when he got hurt bad against Jamal Ben Sadiq you know like whoa like this look this does not look good then he came back and stopped him yeah the real deal yeah definitely he's a beast but again America good guy could go to Walmart nobody knows where the he is wander around his best heavyweight kick boxers of all time literally nobody knows who he is it's strange you know without without question yeah yeah now when you were training with Cody um when you were over a team alpha-male what what is the

30:11coaching like like how are they how are they doing rounds with him uh while he was doing his sparring separately they brought us they brought me and Eddie up just to spar with him who was they like who was coaching him Danny and Danny Castillo and Chris Holsworth yeah so they were essentially his coach yeah they were coaching him in car and so when you were working with him were they saying hey we want to really work on certain things or would they just letting you do your thing were they asking you know I was being you know I I go up there and like I said I go grapple right so I was trying to be a good game good luck skim the switches game then like that TJ's shoulder move type did you practice that stuff or did you know I just I just been one of those guys like when carrying ever since I started with Kingsley and I've had to help somebody like give him looks like it's

30:58been that guy and I've been good at it did you practice tjs looks or did you just kind of know how to have it I I always switch regardless and like that's one of my favorite things to do just offensively and defensively I love switching did you have a traditional martial arts background did you start out with traditional martial I start with Muay Thai started with more time yes sorry with my Thai yeah yeah some the best guys you know it's interesting now they're the switching thing has become almost like a standard thing with TJ do you don't know what he's doing you don't I mean he doesn't have like a revert back to stance he might stand southpaw he might stand Orthodox and he can do both equally well yeah well I'm naturally either right with my with my left hand naturally but I stand orthologues I surf or I skate or thugs well there's a lot of people that mean that was what uh Eddie

31:48Futch used to or Emanuel Steward rather yeah used to teach guys to do that he would take a guy who's right-handed and make him fight southpaw like you want that lead hand to be your most coordinated hand yeah but we have we have Pat sessions that I'll just stand saw fought the whole time and I have no problem with it i I in fact love sparring southpaw and I love just switching do you feel like the your straight left hand has as much power as you straight right hand sometimes even more sometimes even more yeah yeah I feel I feel like I have power with both hands almost equally just depends on the angle and where I'm catching so does the try also try to catch people at the same time either as they're trying to get away from my right hand and I'll switch stances and aggressively switched into into that of that left hand and make it a power hand and they think they're

32:34getting away from my power hand but really they're walking into it and I make him switch into it oh yeah now so when you were working with Cody did they did they have any requests that they'd say hey this is what Cody's trying to work on you know just do really just I was just switching a lot trying to give him that switch left that switch hook that he got caught with last time and brush trying to just be a good team and give him head kicks and that kind of movement and he was doing fairly well blocking kicks coming back and trying to wrestle more but because I think they were talking about that was one thing that he lacked on the first fight not wrestling him enough mm-hmm yeah yeah yeah well what happened Saturday was definitely not the game plan you know you could you could see it's it was it it wasn't anything like he sparred and it wasn't anything like

33:19he trained I think emotion absolutely took over him yet well so what was their game plan I think just piece him up get him you know catch him like the first round but actually finish the fight I think though that would have been more than right but obviously kick him a lot right and just get him to walk into something try to wrestle him a little bit in there too I think I think TJ came out really smart as well though well TJ throws himself into the fire - yeah he's not he does not play a safe game yeah oh you didn't he didn't on Saturday night and I think that I think that he was probably a little surprised by how just by how unsafe Cody was so early like I mean that exchange at the end I mean it's the Cody I mean TJ is just blocking and looking and Cody is just going for broke right everything he's throwing yeah and we we were watching the replays you could clearly see that Cody's path

34:12was wider and there's more strain and then TJ was more loose and he got there quicker you know and the knock down the first knockdown when he tagged him the right hand that was Rick really where it came from they're both thrown at the same time but TJ was also doing a better job of getting his head off line mm-hmm and the thing is like TJ's relationship with Duane Ludwig is very unusual as like those guys are like glue I mean they're they're stuck together and Dwayne is a maniac you know Dwayne oh I know Dwayne I've known doing a long time we are friends and when we coached against each other at the Ultimate Fighter he literally in the parking lot at he had the fastest knockout in UFC history because he was pissed like he's just one of those guys that who's pissed about what just because we were trying to he had a training practice that he invited all the henrys guys to but Henry

35:05couldn't come and I was like well I'm gonna have Johnson on come in and and Joe can't come he's like hey listen I'm with my dick out right now I'm gonna remind you I've got the fastest knockout in here so you better calm down and I'm like well okay but so he's very emotional he's very focused and he's very dedicated to TJ so I'm agreeing with you on that but he will go zero like that oh yeah Dwayne's crazy as yeah very very well but what I'm saying is that Dwayne is obsessed with with TJ's performance and with TJ's improvement when TJ first beat henan barão Dwayne sat down with me we sat down and we had lunch together that day and he was just and it was a big underdog I mean Henning Burrell was thought to be the best pound-for-pound fighter if not number one certainly number two that was the scene that was insane when he did that I was like Jesus Christ also the way he did it he came

35:56out so loose like he was sparring he came out like you know I did touch gloves like he was gonna do a sparring session and he looked like a guy sparred with a hundred rounds yeah it wasn't there was no tension to him was very loose he really loves that he loves it he's a he's a rise to the occasion kind of guy TJ is and that's one of the reasons why I think he really thrived off this rivalry with Cody whereas with Cody especially because TJ won the first fight and won if I knock out you know Cody like had all this inner tension whereas TJ had this inner smile like through the entire process yeah definitely I definitely agree with you and I think Cody was definitely it seemed that he was a little more emotional of the two mm-hmm and one thing that I and what we're talking about emotions and fights and everything and one thing that I always remember when they get emotional

36:46like even and it happens in sparring sessions and you know it might happen in fights and stuff Inc I always remember Karen telling me you want to be that's your phone bro huh me can't be me how dare you how dare you shut that piece of now you got Siri going you don't even know how to use a phone you do know you're one hand of it like as if no one's gonna notice it's still it's dead I killed it go on Gaston anyways I always remember hours remember carrying telling me cuz I will get emotional the times and I will let my Peruvian machismo get in the way and I was right you know especially it will happen a lot with Kevin you know like when Kevin first came to see Kim Ross before Kevin first came to see sa man those were how I get beat up a lot I call it tough love I don't know what you want to call it but I would he would sweep me and beat me up and like well

37:55you want him to give it your best yes and he made me better he he turned me into a training partner versus like somebody had to like maybe he didn't he I built you know he built me into what I am to him we became training partners and but one thing they always remember from cares like you don't want to be emotional you want to be like an assassin you know you want to be you want to go in there and be calculator you want to be yourself because that's what I fight the best without myself and now when I have no emotion involved you have any sort of a pre fight routine that you go through mentally in order to get yourself into a state of mind like that you know the recently since uh I lost so I don't know if you watch my last year's fight my second MMA fight with bells right yes I saw I got ya I got dropped I got submitted you got hit with the wheel kick with a wheel kick yeah you

38:44know that triangle I was going through a lot of the time we're going through a divorce you know very emotional time of my life last year and then I had to you know dig deep and rise to the occasion and you know get out of that hole that I was in so I started grounding my energy before fights I was trying to like trying to visualize and really see myself you know doing the things that I would do because that's how I got a lot of my knockouts and in lion fight I could it was a weird thing I could like just like visualize and see it like when I knocked out Tyler toner I saw that happening before the fight even and I was like it felt like a deja vu mom like oh like I've seen this happen and I just like try to like get us calm as I possibly can I just remind myself there's another day in the office and like I've had almost 50 fights now and I just know that is you

39:33know regardless of what happens where I win or lose I might go out there and give it my best but what I try to do is it just try to like close my eyes and like call it granny granny myself I visualize like roots coming out of my feet and hands and I really like ground myself and ground my energy in to visualize roots yeah yeah tree roots coming out of my hands and coming out of my feet and I like this last fight was crazy actually I could visualize that I going all the way into the ring and like once I walked in there I just felt like home Wow crazy yeah and I don't think I told Ivan told him no is there something that you read how to do or is this something that someone coached you how did actually my ex-wife taught me yeah she taught me how to do that and I just like I thought she's bullshitting anyways I tried it and you tried after you got divorced yeah that's hilarious

40:29yeah yeah thanks I'm yeah you got the roots and he got the chance tell you she was right I did I texted her a while back and all that you were right like that works and it's crazy I you know that along with some alpha brain I go out there and I'm like I'm ready to rock and roll I feel at home now but what I was getting to was that that relationship between coach and athlete when it works out great it's so important and when you don't have that like I mean there's no disrespect for debt to Danny Castillo and Chris halls work who are both were very good fighters and I'm sure dedicated but Dwayne is a different kind of thing I mean he obsesses on various techniques and improvements and foot works and how to change things and how to how to set things up he's all day 24/7 he never shuts yeah and the kind of relationship that Dwayne has with TJ is so rare and so beneficial but that the chronic

41:29relationship you guys have this kind of really tight bond between coach and fighter mmm if it's theirs you can win without it but when you have it it is just so powerful so powerful so powerful I feel like I like it's crazy now like when I'm warming up I can see he's getting nervous for me but I kind of get I I see how the Osher he's worried about me you know but it makes me it makes me want to like go in there and like make him proud you know and like I know he's gonna be he's gonna be there regardless yeah you know it's crazy but like I can see like he tries to hide as oh I'm fine like you know let's get warm but I can just see like that like he's getting nervous for me you know no like I said that just makes me want to do better and go in there and like listen to him and just but you also got to realize how fortunate you are to found him yeah there's not a lot of great muy Thai

42:25coaches in America I mean where I live out here good luck finding a gym to even train at this is you mean you can go to some guys gonna hold Pats for you but like as far as like legit muy Thai coaching in the valley I mean you've got sacks on or you've got yeah sacks on and Julio out in van nuys but that's you know two half hour 45 minutes away from here but it's over this traffic and Jesus yeah yeah I mean the fact that you just stumbled upon him in this lucky way when you were that young well like I said we just clicked man yeah just click the after I lost I fight against that kid with 80-plus fights we just clicked and then I started I didn't work my conditioning at all back then like I I just ran that's another lucky thing I mean you have a giant CrossFit gym you know just know your gym is not just Muay Thai you have a massive gym yeah well yeah I mean we started out a 5,000

43:27square feet then three years later we went to 12 now we're at 25 yeah CrossFit stand alone and again a lot of my people don't use CrossFit like Kevin he can't keep muscle on so he powerless with our powerlifting coach Jessie verdict he doesn't do CrossFit because it's it's he needs to keep weight on Gaston CrossFit and then so for us everything what's unique about our gym is that everything's kind of done under the same roof I don't do a lot of guest coaching I'm doing it with the with the alpha male guys because Alex muñoz is coaching wrestling for us and I felt for me that was one area that as a gym we needed to grow so Alex comes in and coaches so I coach his stand-up and it's been a good beneficial relationship for for both gyms but I don't go there and coach those guys will come down bonito works with me now Alex works with me he'll prefer Carter Ramos

44:18who just fought Ricardo comes down you know for the wrestling class we'll have a little sparring session like small gloves we have a full-sized cage so it's very beneficial and then we'll just you know we'll just do like a round-robin type of thing like one goes in the other ones out and it's great like I get really good look from those guys what made the decision for you to do 3 different sports like why not dedicate yourself to one well I was I was I started purely as a Muay Thai fighter right and then the opportunity to sign with Bowser came in I always we always knew that MMA will be you know where we will end up why would I I just love fighting men I love fighting I love more time obviously if I can if I could just do my tight I'll probably do that but so if my tie had the same financial possibilities you know I used to say that a lot actually let me correct

45:08myself there but now it's like I feel I feel like I'm getting so much better in like completing my journey as a martial artist that MMA is definitely where I want to end up at just alone and then we had the opportunity with Bellator to do kick boxing and MMA and then maybe do a few more Thai fights on the side if you know I didn't interrupt with anything with uh with them so that's pretty much how happen he fought he fought five times last year you know any fought kickboxing MMA and Muay Thai and if he was just like with the UFC he couldn't do that I think muy Thai prepares you better for MMA and kickboxing does not just because the fact you have but also because the fact that the clinch the grappling people people don't understand how much grappling there is in my tight like when you go to Thailand I went to six something on one of the best camps and in Bangkok and one of the

46:02best camps in the world they have said a child's like right now the glory champion a 155 but they clinch twice a day for at least thirty one hour 30 minutes to an hour every day that's a lot of grappling yeah a lot of grappler yeah sweeps and just their ability to manipulate each other and I think doesn't want just one thing this has has helped me has helped my understanding and wrestling mm-hmm and jujitsu as well I pick up thanks a lot faster than your average Muay Thai fighter it probably does right yes because of that clinch mm-hmm so how much did you two are you doing what do we focus on right now so we have Monday about four days a week about four days before they so we could you Jitsu a couple days of just drills and situational sparring so when you're doing a fight like your last Bellator fight would you just won was it two weeks ago three weeks ago so when when you're doing that

47:01how far out will you just do kickboxing like how much time do you give yourself you don't do anything else or do you still wrestle and still do jiu-jitsu even though you're probably sitting on I'm fairly new to MMA in to grappling alone so I try to just keep a couple days a week in there so I can you know keep it fresh you know because I'm fighting September 29th again MMA so who are you fighting I don't know yet we don't I don't think we have in the point it's a month away they don't give you an opponent it's like six like six weeks away yeah yeah eight weeks weeks something like that yeah like that oh it's a balloon is today the 5th 6th of August sixth months yeah so it's almost eight weeks yeah so they give you an opponent and then you have to decide how to prepare like if it's a stand-up fighter we just ramped up the standup more well most of these guys even live MMA fight

48:00they're stand-up guys there again that I feel like they're gonna try to take me down regardless if they find the opportunity was it ones they they get cracked they're gonna wanna go in the ground regardless so we're always trying to you know work on getting right back up you know working on keeping control we're in their guard so we're gonna get submitted with anything like it happened last year in September September 23rd so we're always what was trying to work all areas regardless you know I'm always trying to as some martial arts always want to be ready for anything that could possibly happen you know you never it's a fight man like anything can happen anything can happen you know and like people always watch tape and fight as a fighter I've learned that I can evolve so much in just six to eight weeks you know which is like what people have us camps and so you never know who you're

48:45gonna get when you're like in front of them in the in the you know in the cage so I'm most trying to be ready for anything do you think this never gonna come a time where you get into a championship level we just stop fighting Muay Thai and stop fighting kickboxing and just concentrate on MMA yeah probably I think I think that there's definitely gonna be a time that I'm only gonna be an MMA fighter I definitely see that in the future oh I also like to be like one of the first guys to hold a kickboxing belt I don't know like a belt or kickboxing World Championship and be like a top contender I want to be definitely that that kind of guy that can do they can prove that they can do both you know how to hide a super high level it's it's interesting the belt or is really starting to make progress I mean they they have real legit world-class fighters now you know they

49:32have Gegard Mousasi zmei arguably if not the best one of the best 185 pounders in the world I mean in my opinion he's right up there with Robert Whittaker and he's willing Amero is striking is he's he's I'm a big fan of colossi yeah I am too well he's super well-rounded too I mean with everything and he just so calm his demeanor his mentality he's he's he's an assassin like legit assassin as is Rory MacDonald and they're both yeah that's the car that I'm fighting on so I'm great I'm super excited crazy fight they decided to make like why the would you do that I don't understand why you would take you arguably your your best to guys yeah have them fight and they're not even in the same weight class I mean I guess today's super fight I think there's pressure with the super fight movement with the UFC from Bellator to keep up I yeah I think there's there's there's probably and

50:24again might not be Scott's idea my team hair amounts idea I don't know what could very well be Rory and gig arts idea to like they call each other out right away yes Ozzie became the champion the one five they're like listen man psycho I mean he's a legit psycho in the best way possible it was a really good guy to get to know him at all no not at all wait we're both on the under uh the monster team with Hans and all those guys shout out to hands yeah yeah man triumphs United all trans United yeah he just sent me a bunch of gloves and you guys were saying these bags are the best bag yeah definitely absolutely his clothes the Death Adder they go I don't know if I think I think I have a pair it's my favorite glove he makes great gloves favorite glove oh no it's a yeah definitely um so what we're just saying we were talking about Rory Oh what I was saying is like people had

51:19this idea of who he was and then he came on did my podcast I'd be like oh he's normal yeah he's a good guy yeah like everybody thought he was like this autistic psycho yeah from what I heard from Hans he's like a super nice guy very smart yeah very yeah yeah he's funny actually yeah you know it's just his 5-wood Lawler was like all my favourite fight the whole time Jesus Christ what a crazy fight man yeah first time ever saw him was when he fought Nate I was there with when Jake fought GSP cornering Jake it's Canada right it was in Canada in Toronto and I didn't know who he was and I watched that fight for the back and I was just like holy this kid is phenomenal yeah and I don't think anybody anticipated his level of wrestling at that time I think May thought he was gonna be up slap him up and you know that after that I became a huge huge fan I mean obviously Nate's my boy and I

52:15love Nate and you know - it's just wrong weight class yeah yeah absolutely I mean not big one thing to fight Connor at 170 but Rory's giant at 170 and he's also training with GSP just Tristar and I'm a giant fan of ferocity and what he's managed to put together up there in Montreal they just have a camp this is it's just such an elite camp you know it's just a different different level of of just well-rounded fighters it's a phenomenal place yeah phenomenal phenomenal coach one of my favorites I'm excited to see Nate fight Poirier I'm excited to see Nate back you know I was I was wondering I was like man it's been like two years yeah I was surprised he took the fight then I was also surprised that he was mad that they were doing Conor versus Coby yeah I didn't expect that well they're both mad Justin's mad too was like what the you guys mad for well I thought Dustin was gonna wait

53:10for you know to get his title shot but I guess that fight makes sense man he might not have got that title shot though Tony Ferguson's healing up you know he's back in the max who knows what's gonna happen with James Vick when James Vick is gonna fight um just engag you know Vicks on I think at 10 or 11 fight win streak yeah that way something crazy like that stacked that's a stacked weight class man you know and then you still have so many guys that are that are coming up that are you know like one or two fights away then of course you got Kevin Lee who in my opinion he says the best argument for the next title shot he's a monster he's a monster his last fight jeez yeah so it's him Tony Ferguson when Tony's healthy again Tony's not a hundred percent healthy but I mean Dustin I think it's right to take that fight because he's not the most compelling guy I know he wants to but he

54:05just got knocked out by Michael Johnson a year ago yeah you know I mean it's there's there's a lot maybe a little bit more than a year ago just yes let's go right but it's like still and then you got to remember what Johnson when when Johnson fought khabib could be Malden I mean there's a lot of a lot of people in that weight class yeah so Johnson went down to 45 all right yeah yeah Johnson Johnson's fight in Philly yeah yeah yeah yeah Phillies coming down to Train without solar as well as losses first fight at forty five to Darren Elkins and uh and he looked really good physically he was ripped for the first time he was shredded but I wonder like man how much does he walk around that he's a big fella hmm like how much they walk around and how much is he depleting his body to get down to that 100 that's that's one thing like I don't think like some people like realize like yeah okay you

54:53made the way you're only kind of like seven eight pounds like the night before but we're depleting your body throughout like that camp yeah I think I I can definitely you know people ask me often hey are you gonna go to Bantam I'm like no man I like I like feeling good throughout you walk around like 162 well that's not too bad not to and that's what L mean pounds that's what people tell me that all you could probably make bantamweight I was like yeah man but like I like to feel strong physically yeah absolutely strong throughout my camp they only cut like eight to ten pounds yeah we don't we don't cut a lot of weight at CSA I don't smart I don't I don't like it and I want it and I and part of it is you know I got this kid knocked out I'm telling you right now I got it was my as a coach you have to own it it was my fault fight week I'm gonna take five extra

55:40pounds off of this kid you know just because he's not gonna fight okay then we don't fight right you learn as you go so no I I have you know 10% rule I'll pull you I like what one Fc is doing you know we had Ben Askren in here and he was explaining how one act one Fc does these hydration tests and they test you all the time they test you several times they find out what your actual weight is they test your heart level right yeah several times they moved everybody at the weight class they kept their champions but they made you know Ben instead of a 1 in 70 they made them a 185-pound champ California's doing hydration tests on fight day right yes yeah right day they're also don't think it works though no well they're also making you not way more than 10 percent more than what you weighed in and they've moved up a couple they they don't I don't think they find you you're

56:32you're the first time you do it they just like advise you to go up mm-hmm and they don't like I think they don't allow you to fight at that same weight if it's still for a 200 pound fighter that's 20 pounds that's a lot of weight man that's a lot of weight like if I pulled 20 pounds of water my body right now I mean I'd be stumbling into walls I mean you're on death's door when you're not really you're not gonna take shots the same way you're just a way and your organs here's that that's a big thing your organs start up I know a guy who well I know someone who knows him he was in a bodybuilding competition and this is a 36 year old guy who's you know just amateur bodybuilding competition got down to a really low body fat and just really wanted to win the competition one and then two weeks afterwards his body shut down his organs are shutting down he had a

57:22heart attack his family found him dead just died of a heart attack 36 years old yeah yeah but the water comes out of the organs last and it goes back in last also the damage to them what by depleting them and trying them out your kidneys and going back to that that fight that I got knocked out I cut all that weight I made the weight you know I was I weighed in everything but I couldn't keep water in I just like I was drinking and like I just felt like I could I couldn't like I went to bed probably like only a couple pounds heavier after cutting like 12 pounds yeah I was just I couldn't keep water in like I was try making Pedialyte and stuff like that yeah well yeah he works with Dolce now yeah and I do the smart way but back then like we would just do whatever and iterate in anything like and I just couldn't I don't even need that night cuz I couldn't hold anything in my

58:15stomach just when is such a like stage that I was just like have you compared methods like if you guys talked to Lockhart and different guys and see how everybody does it does anybody do it the same way no no not everybody's doing it the same way but most people are using a probiotic right probiotic yeah no to to get your stomach ready to start digesting food again and and all of that what's what probiotic do they use that depends on who's sponsoring them you know so for us right now you know we're using Mike's stuff Mike's been tremendous to the team through the years it's all natural I mean you know his rehydration drink is you know water Himalayan salt honey you know blah blah blah I'm not gonna put it out there but it's all natural stuff and it's all stuff that you're that you're taking during you know you're like I'm always haven't cheated seats and ninja million saw and honey

59:03well I got like I like la carte but literally I know that you know he worked with Dustin and there were three different shake bottles that Dustin had to consume recessive Dustin Dustin Ortiz now before his last fight okay you gotta let everybody know this no yes yes best northeast Dustin Ortiz and he had three different shake bottles and each one had different ingredients to be taken at different times and it was just really hard for Dustin to keep track of all that is there science behind that though that I don't know I don't know enough about what what George is doing yeah I mean I I get that it would be hard to keep track of it but if there's a tangible benefit to keeping track of those three different things yeah yeah for me the natural method that Dolce users is what I'll use if if a fighters not paying so you have this rehydration drink and you make so much of a gallon

59:53water you're only okay chia seeds pink Himalayan salt lemon pink Himalayan salt yeah he said the sound like you said pinky mill and so no thank you my insult you see her mask 4-pack worked I have can we do I've only been speaking English for what like 12 years coach can we do PAC work tonight sure so I'm sorry chia seeds pink Himalayan salt lemon lemon honey why honey what is the honey for I don't know the purpose behind I just put it tastes good I'm right sure definitely taste good you figure gonna take some of the sting off of the salt and just for a little bit of the the carbon the sugar mm-hmm so right off the the scale you take 16 ounces of the drink with some fruit uh-huh then you wait 50 minutes so you're absorbing all the nutrients versus like drinking or eating too much Rogers way oh we used to it was someone which right away which is probably what

60:55happened that well I was I was I was mad scientist at that time okay because you know every ounce of carps you know you're gonna hold three ounces of water and creatine is gonna make the side flow the create as creatine help you rehydrate because it does make you retain water right yes but if you're not creatine normally you know it it's gonna be but it again at the time early on in my career you know a lot of everything that I've done from hand wrapping to conditioning to hydration it's all learned as you go creatine does make you stronger it really does but it also makes you face fat it definitely makes you if you just put more monitor code on yeah creatine monohydrate as far as like kre-alkalyn all I said the creatine monohydrate is one of the only proven supplements legally that can make you stronger and but again no way whether or not it's good for you you know science says

61:58whatever but at the time I think it is good for you that's actually I believe it is it's actually been proven to actually have a googol creatine nootropic benefits because I feel like I remember reading that they're they're actually finding that there's some cognitive benefit to taking creatine no actually I've read the same thing more water absolutely your brain would function better because oh you know how it is when you're dehydrated you can't remember yeah my brain's useless when I'm dehydrated it's well think about cutting 12 pounds I stood the old Taekwondo days and fight the same day and no heat no rehydration didn't know what I was doing and when I went from 140 to 150 4 that's when I got good when I want to stop cutting all the weight before that I was a zombie it's a and I see it in these guys I see these guys show up at the the weigh-in and I see

62:54their sunken eyes they're sunk in cheek and it it makes me sick man which is why I constantly harp on this 1fc thing you know and I talked to the UFC guys I talked to him a couple times so I was like look you guys have implemented this unbelievable innovative and and and really just fantastic strategy for cutting out all the steroid use I mean what you guys done is amazing it's so progressive you're on top of it you're ahead of everybody and you're really setting the standard do that with weight cutting they should do that with the weight cutting don't don't blow up your champions move move them move them to just decide you have real champions eight reasons creatine is the best nootropic there it is creatine is a molecule it allows cells to store energy in your brain cells for use of another time this extra energy means you do more work or study more effectively unlike caffeine you don't

63:44feel like you have more energy okay this is not a science journal what is this it's like summer time or some as much like negates symptoms of sleep deprivation oh need some of that sometimes I just got back from Thailand I was in Thailand for nine days right and I've been back for a week and I still wake up after sleeping for two hours right and I'm like what the why am i awake then I go downstairs I'll eat I'll watch TV and I'm like I just might as well just work out I'm wide awake and then an hour later exhausted can't can't wait to go to sleep go sleep for more hours being a trained at all other know I was just there with my family for a vacation but I would say very fascinating thing that happened to me I had a meniscus tear small meniscus tear and I went running on I was doing yoga on it it would seem to be fine that I ran on it cuz it seemed like it was just kind of like

64:35like my knee was just a little sore yeah and then after I ran on it it locked up on me like was really tight so I said I gotta go get an MRI so I get an MRI they say yeah you've got a meniscus tear you can get a menace copy you know I know they say man this could be whatever whatever it when they the operation or we could try exosomes exosomes which is it's an ass Google X so somes so we can explain it in a technical way but I had some of that shot into my shoulder with miraculous results I mean I've had a bunch of different things done to my shoulder and then I always wind up re-injuring it partially and then I'll get more stem cells this had by far the greatest benefit of anything I've ever done well so I get it shot into my knee when I say within two weeks I had no pain I mean nothing like deep squats no problem not bothering me at all and I was doing no only body weight

65:33stuff for like six I guess I I needed I need to know about it I'm not for me for my wife this is my test dummy incredible what this is done I ran yesterday ran in the hills for the first time in six weeks zero pain zero discomfort I woke up this morning say it better not be stiff I don't feel it man it feels like there's nothing there that's that's impressive regenerative medicine what they're doing what TJ Dillashaw had done TJ Dillashaw went down to Panama on two separate occasions to work with dr. Neil Riordan who is doing that in Panama well they're also doing similar things right now they're able to do that in Santa Monica but it's under some sort of a test thing they're doing like test study to see how this stuff works but it they do it with PRP as well so they put exosomes in your body and they inject it with PRP and the PRP and the exosomes work together and regenerate

66:29tissue it's radical man I mean it's used to have a meniscus tear your knee was up for months yeah and it was it was so stiff that you couldn't walk without a limp it's not gonna get better in a week this was better in a week in two weeks there was zero zero even recognition there was anything wrong it didn't feel like there was anything wrong well that is crazy it's nuts man and this is you know here we are in 2018 2028 they're gonna grow you a new leg crazy do you know they're repairing completely torn ACLs now instead of replacing them they just repairing your ACL snaps yeah they've figured out a way to repair them where they got someone back to the u.s. bobsled team four months after the operation that's crazy crazy yeah they've got guys doing box jumps four months after complete ACL tear my my wife competed at the CrossFit Games four months after ACL

67:31replacement how'd she do that dr. mori Harwood in-laws as possible but the ACL would not have been reformed by that it AB no she had no she had it replaced she had right but the cadaver graph to understand it's just a scaffolding understood understand so it wouldn't have been fully formed by that well the way we'll see here's the the way the way CrossFit works is not an impact it's not a contact sport right so surgery in October she was competing again in February right so November December January February and then by the time the games rolled around in July she was now at like that eight month mark so here's okay they say six months is when it's really pretty much healed right but she was in the gym the next day right like literally you have ACL surgery when I met her she was but she did a lot of herself when I know when I met her she was a hippie and she

68:30was an actress seriously but that the level of mania that she has they nobody making that no no that's that's always been there filled with crazy oh no she's she's she's amazing 43 she's doing her first figure competition now should it be your office but it's a figure yeah she's never done it so she she she's set like a bunch of powerlifting records she went to the games twice she fought she was on the u.s. hockey team and now she's gonna do a figure comp and then you know she's she's crazy she's mom that picture that I posted from my likes last kickboxing fight if it was a I was carrying in the corner and it was Jessica right there holding the ice it was like an amazing picture it's amazing that she could start training that hard for months later because a lot of people will especially the real issue with fighters is the lateral movement yeah it's all

69:33the footwork in the movement and that's when they always wind up blowing the knee out like so many guys in I trauma NLCS here completely did you two weeks before his MMA debut yes yeah yeah absolutely but she was so like but most people like you said she's a maniac most people aren't like her when they give you that range of motion machine the day after surgery they say you should be in this five hours a day she's in at five hours a day yeah every day yeah and she was in the gym the next day rowing with her leg straight I mean there's just a there's a level of just dedication and commitment rehab yeah that she had when I tore my ACL I have a steam room in my house and I would just get in there every day into deep squats in the steam room and just through the pain yeah but because of that I never had an issue with any range of motion whatsoever where I've had two

70:22friends that have had ACL operations was in the past year that had to go back and go under and get manipulated because they didn't have range of motion so they take you put you out and just take your name like crap because you just can't handle the pain right that's all it is but in my opinion take that pain early so that body it never has a chance to lock up and and all that scar tissue develop just break that down real early yeah well I was like I said I tore my MCL completely gone off the top of the bone last year five weeks before my may fight it maybe is five weeks tore it off the bone yeah it was like I go in and the doctors like listen man I don't want to scare you but it's probably the worst MCL injury I've ever seen oh you don't want to scare me yeah doctor doctor Donnelly but it's gone it's gonna hurt but you know it's gone so what are you getting it's gone he says gone like

71:19you can start you can start training the gist listen he's like this is the way he explains like listen like I you might not be able to find in five weeks I don't know I'm not sure you don't I wouldn't recommend surgery because you're an athlete he wouldn't recommend surgery because you're an athlete that's what he said what does that mean I don't know he's like you should start doing PT normally I don't recommend this to until two weeks after the injury but he didn't explain why he wouldn't recommend surgery because you're an athlete they will put me out for six months but it was healed it 100% is that the idea yeah he's you're an active athlete you know what he's leaving out is he had so much stability already yeah it was like he said 48 hours later it looks pretty good considering you Tory completely off the bone he was it other than the MRI you wouldn't know that the

72:06MCL was gone okay so now when it's torn off the bone explained that what happens can you so it was on top of the bone so the MCL is the outside or that the LCL it's inside inside so it's on the inside and it's separated from the bone so how's it heal how do you heal it was he said well he's what he said is because it's on top of the bone you have much less mobility at it yeah so there's the MCL so it tore off the bone yeah right on the top is it huh they're so ripped off completely yeah the whole thing grappling yeah going so the whole thing is gone yeah there's no MCL nope so you don't have an MCL right now no I don't know I'm fine no II just don't know yeah he doesn't have an MCL right so but all the other stuff and the muscles kept it intact yeah absolutely so what he said is yeah but did you think that like for long-term stability the long for your long-term career

73:05probably a good idea to have an MCL I don't know I haven't had a problem with him and I fought three different combat sports I was I was running doing full sprints two and a half weeks later after it happened Wow which was he was like he saw me walking hey where's your basement I was like oh it's in the car and I needa anymore it hurts it kind of pinched and pinches the knee he's like what do you mean I was like oh I just got clear to run so he he told me I ride as it happens like listen like I told them the situation I'll say I have a fight I have a fight in five weeks I need to get ready for it it's my debut is a big thing is my MMA debut is a big thing it's like I don't know man like it's kind of your call on this one that you might be able to fight you might like see how you feel type of thing I'll allow you to do PT starting tomorrow so what I did I was doing PT and I was

73:52doing cryotherapy twice a day every day so I was keeping the swine down and trying to strengthen the leg at the same time but you that MCL it's not a partial tear it's a full table gone he told me like there's nothing you can do about it is gone it's gonna hurt so here it is right here yeah so it's a grade three tear yeah yeah gone gone so you don't have that thing there and they probably can't even replace it at this point unless they use some sort of a cadaver one and then you'd be out for six months yeah have you fought five times since you everything about that bro he was like - these days are you you changed my perception and MCLs completely because he didn't believe it oh my oh my I can run now does he ever work with athletes does he used to be a doctor that's all he does folks so how does he how that seems so crazy maybe you have an unusual knee I

74:44don't know I just I just ate a lot of walk about Peruvian market maca powder and that kind of come about was insane yeah you know you don't need that I commit I committed a lot to my to my rehab though I was like a Salesman twice a day doing cryotherapy I wasn't trying to do everything I possibly could to fight I'll also say that you know you get a lot of bad raps you know with CrossFit and you know listen it doesn't matter what it is it could be spin it could be CrossFit it could be Taekwondo it does it there's good CrossFit there's bad CrossFit there's good Taekwondo there's bad Taekwondo at the end of the day this kid had been doing you know physical general physical preparedness for years he's in phenomenal shape everything that he does you know the stability in his legs like I gave him up I gave him a stability test after he hurt his knee and and I couldn't I'm

75:36like I think it's still there I said go get an MRI be sure but there was no movement in his leg whatsoever because he was so strong that's pretty crazy and pretty fortunate right yeah and I was lucky I was definitely lucky he still doesn't believe it this day that it happened so what else do you do in terms of like recuperative you said you did cryotherapy did you saw no work at all I like the infrared sauna mm-hmm yeah but I just started doing that recently I was just doing a lot of the cryotherapy I don't know if there's any benefit to infrared is there you know no your body needs to heat up that's all it is is just a benefit to using infrared as opposed to a regular sauna again I mean there are 10,000 people who were probably screaming that we gave creatine a shot out and I'm sure there are people that are gonna say infrared is benefit and infrared kills you but I do believe

76:27that you know again hot cold therapy works and you're getting your body hot and you know getting your body cool and and and manipulating your metabolism is something that needs to be done and should be done yeah well let's heat shock proteins and cold shock proteins to reduce inflammation and there's a lot of studies on that one of the more interesting studies is on sauna use and the fact that this reduction of information has led to a 40% reduction in overall cause mortality meaning in all an all cause mortality means strokes heart attacks cancer 40% reduction over a long long study that they did and I think they were doing it four times a week for 20 minutes a day well it's crazy is that reduction of inflammation inflammation is the number one enemy it's it's the enemy of your health it's the cause of so many diseases and ailments and and if you can do something to mitigate that

77:25whether it's cryotherapy or sauna work and in choir therapy gets a bad rap too because there's a lot of unfounded claims you know you go to some of those more unscrupulous cryotherapy websites and you know they're basically yeah make that up they bash it well I mean the ones that are talking good about it the ones that are selling it they're talking about how much fat you lose and all those different stuff like it looked it reduces inflammation that's what it does it's really good for that you know good after it yeah well if you're training on a regular basis you're an athlete that inflammation could be detrimental and that's just all it is the more do you can do and do it in all these different ways with diet and exercise and sleep and all these different you're all day all compound it for me my my philosophy with the gym has always been and again it's very basic

78:14and of course there's something like you know overtraining but you know no such thing as overtraining just to our recovery yeah you know so we trained really hard everybody's doing two three a days we do a lot of road work we do a lot of strength conditioning you know we don't get tired in fights but you know sleeping is important you know recovery inflammation management you know everything along those lines has to be part of it or you're gonna break your body down to a point where you can't perform do fighters ever give you a hard time for being a little overweight no no no nope never never Gaston you missing out well I don't want to nope at work so no you know it's a guy who understands health and wellness hundred a hundred percent I'm the I'm the CrossFit affiliate holder right and I don't do CrossFit I I'm a human heavy bag it's what I do it's literally what I

79:10do I run a gym I get beat up for a living hope you know think there's there's nobody that holds Pat like literally my day can be Kevin Ross Gaston Gina Carano Zoila Frost Oh Eddie Abba solo Diego yamas little Stephanie who it's harder or as hard of Jenna my giant Kiwi you know and that's four hours of my life every night my body's adapted to that I'll sweat like a pig I won't drop a pound I don't eat that much I probably don't eat enough I just I lived my gym so absolutely I'm gonna die of a heart attack ramen to get my together you know I don't thing I'm morbidly obese but I certainly don't look like a guy who knows about fitness but I do it's just you have to put yourself first and it's very difficult for me as a coach to put myself first I have to if there's time for me to work out there's time for me to get somebody else a fight if there's time so you gotta be a diet

80:05thing I mean there's no way he'll tell you well what do you eat in the morning I'll have a shake in the afternoon I'll have a meal and then once that meal those no one air no no no like a prepaid meal like a out of the cave meal his food sponsor it's it's it's a matter of probably not eating enough and not working out doing something that my body's not used to I would be honest I I would I live trust me I live with a physical specimen you know that you know knows everything I eat I don't I don't eat enough and that doesn't make any sense I'm telling you that doesn't make any sense that mean like look scientifically it doesn't make any sense I guarantee you I take in less than 2,500 calories a day guarantee you huh you should go to a doctor hmm I would need time I live in my gym I don't and again it sounds like excuses but literally it could be hi Roy - you're sleeping good big man it

81:07seems like well is this on TV because you're making it sound like I'm living a 600 pound life that's not saying no because you are such a talented coach and I know so much about health and fitness that you know that's this that's a thing yeah absolutely hundred percent you know for fighting I think it's Kevin Kevin will give me grief you know but it is really the only one that gets away with it well Kevin's a hummingbird right but no for so so for me it's just it's a matter just making time and I just I don't make time for myself I just don't well that's probably why you're such a good coach - the obsession that a coach has it's it's such a different obsession yeah all right the obsession that a coach has versus the obsession that a fighter has I mean it's a it's a completely different focus it's an outward focused instead of an in my and my model is totally different I don't think we've

82:12ever talked about it I've never taken a dime from a professional fighter ever you don't get paid at all nope how do you make each so you make a living off the CrossFit for the gym not just across the gym membership gym memberships that's it I've never in my entire life Alexis fought Ronda this kid's got 50 fights Kevin run down the list I've never taken a penny from a profession you have to be completely unique in that I mean I don't think there's anybody else I don't I don't never heard of that before no if from it would be like for me it would be like if the Golden State Warriors paid the coach directly who's running who's running the the asylum then that's an interesting way to look at it I don't work for him I work with him right pad work travel like I won't even take per diem on fight week at the UFC I mean I'm gonna take Alexis's fights twice a year she's got a kid I'm

83:08gonna take her per diem money right no I can't as a coach that when I advise him this is a good fight for you this is a bad fight for you this it can't be motivated by me making money it just for me I can't do that well I know you put together this you you are you're really well known as not just being a coach but as training other coaches again that that coaching seminar that you you do it every year twice a year twice a year it is one of the most respected and appreciated seminar series yeah in all of combat sports because it's one of the things that's how do you run a gym correctly absolutely the fact that you're willing to open up the door into all these other coaches and potential competitors right and and let him do that it just speaks volumes about your approach and anybody anybody can come and so when I opened up and I started I didn't know what I was doing

84:07you know I was a fighter when I was younger and then I had to get a real job when my wife got pregnant I got into a bunch of other stuff they didn't air protection and all that crazy stuff what protection dignitary protection what is that executive security consulting oh so you do in like bodyguard work for like yeah I'm Boyle Terry's yeah dignitary's so ya know it's the actual award dignitary protect so you're working with like foreign agents and stuff yeah I was on the presidential protection detail for air speed in Haiti oh wow yeah I've had it I've had a couple of jobs if you google me you go like five pages back you'll hear all that other stuff huh but I so cuz fighting wasn't paying when I was fighting my wife got pregnant my son's 21 I think I made five hundred bucks the most ever one I fought and you know I had to get a real job so I was going to school and and I was gonna be a

85:02cop and then I met a guy Tony Scotty the godfather of defensive tactics driving he let me in on a course with the State Department I impressed him and he made some introductions and I became a State Department subcontractor and traveled the world and you know ran a company one of the largest private security companies in the world steel foundation I think they don't think they're around anymore retired that's so interesting cuz whenever I see a gym as big as yours and I know how hard it is to run a gym I always go huh that happened how that had that come together like that bit you know it's just so many gems common go and even good ones like look with mm-hm Gillian's that's gone I don't know what's going on with team elevate in Denver I think there that's where TJ was yeah camp here yeah they're down another at the what do they call it the training train run yeah

85:56rain re doesn't have anything to do with the old rain no no no no mark is where's mark mark yeah mark Paris is somewhere else now I here's how so so I've got just about been open for nine years with CSA we had 0 members when we started I've got about 1300 so what was the motivation the motivation was that I spent it was always a passion I was doing martial arts when I was a child I was fighting I just wasn't making money doing it and then I got into that other life and did that for about 15 years and I was being paid to protect people that could afford it but maybe didn't deserve it for very long time unfortunately that's the way it works it's a true way of looking at it because I was doing at the highest level you know I wasn't doing security work at the you know Kids Choice Awards standing right you know I was Jim Carrey yeah yeah for two hours saying I'm Jim Carrey's bodyguard right

86:58so it's one of those things where I saw it at the very highest level and it just it turned me off after a while because you know you you're just you're you're being a babysitter to people who have money right even with the biggest threats you know from Iraq Afghanistan Haiti run down the list it wasn't about helping people and I always wanted to help people yes so when I when I opened the gym that was the goal was to help people and it turned into that gym and this is why I feel that our gym model is successful is because tonight at 5:30 during a boxing class my professional fighters are going to be in class with everyone else there's no pro team only practice everybody trains together everybody works together the model is for people you want to get in shape wonderful you're gonna get into shape you want to have stress relief wonderful you want to become a fighter wonderful I

87:53don't have a fight team practice tryout or any of that you come to the gym you put in the work you support the team you train side by side with world champions you get better you have a good time it's a huge family gym it's a huge family environment and the mixture of the self-defense and the fighting and the fitness one doesn't need the other so unlike like an aka and I love hobby but the gym is about the fighters and if fighters lose that's fine people go out the back door for me I can have a fight or lose my memberships not gonna matter my people are still gonna come they're still gonna train they're still gonna support they're still gonna buy tickets and that's been the recipe and because the gym is that way it's allowed me to have this model where I don't charge Pro fighters so when you opened that that is really incredible and very very unique but when you open like how'd you get

88:43people to go well when so what I would say I'm gonna I'm gonna sound full of myself here I'm just I'm very good at it so here's here's nesto who's sure and you open up a gym everybody's gonna go hey I want to go train with mr. perfect that's a nesto whose didn't you know for a guy like you to have such a massive massive gym yeah and become one of the most respected gyms in the world right like it's it's a crazy path mm-hmm so for me I think part of it was just I'm gonna use a generic term hustle you know I I you know if you look at Thai boxing coaches like you said they're just aren't very the the ties here in America they don't take it seriously it's not the stadium if you're not in the stadium they don't care so you know other than Johnson on name a Thai coach that's coaching high-level fighters Thai boxing they're just not it's they're tired it's boring it's not real it's fun it's

89:37bright it's not a real thing for me I treated it like a real thing and I hustled my ass off and I made connections and I worked and the reason that I could get so many people online fighters because I sold tickets because I knew how the game was played I learned how to work with the judges I knew who was judging fights and how to or and how to deal and so all of that whereas a lot of coaches don't ever kind of get out of their own way they just they're so in their mantra of you know well I'm really good at what I do and you know this is traditional Thai boxing and this is how it should be scored no I'm everyday we've always adjusted we've had fights like in a got a box man there's there's boxing judges out there you got a box mm-hmm whereas maybe like we're in LA I say oh you know the judges are new more like Thai so you can do the punch you can do your thing you know

90:26we've always adjusted yeah so I think I think part of it is just it's it's it's Drive its hustle and it's its determination to be successful and that's you know for me you know that's that's what I have focused on with the gym and it's grown and like I said we start out one location we had there was 3,500 square feet I had zero students and in five three years we had 400 that's crazy so it's hard to get a hundred students ya know especially in jiu-jitsu school's jiu-jitsu schools it's that's the number that's the magical number you have a hundred students it's like oh now you're making X amount per month because you had a hundred people paying X amount per month it's actually it's the diversity right so what happens is is that when people find out that maybe MMA isn't for them they can go into my fitness program when people find out that maybe Fitness

91:15isn't for them they can go into my Krav Maga program yeah they find out the crowd isn't for them and the bottom line is also is I don't treat it like any kind of you have a tropic Rob Maga program I do I'll have a huge crowd Maga program a huge crowd and it's the same things like Krav Maga listen all Krav Maga is is combat sports yeah I'm a fan of Krav Maga yeah what Krav Maga is martial arts that's it it's like they've just they've just developed self-defense scenarios and they use real martial arts that's it real Moy time any real karate real Juden we do it and we do it even more combat sports such em all of my Krav us have to go through grappling classes all the Crowder's have to learn our combos the Krav Maga themselves Kravis said that's the term is closed yeah it's promised but like many Kravis dignitaries but I have tossed I did want to teach

92:03Krav Maga to the Bolivian Secret Service really yeah wow I didn't know this story well so the garden coke but narco that's why I guarantee you dude listen to this podcast it's gonna be a bunch of Pro fighters it this just say he doesn't charge I'm paying 250 a month from my gym what is going on well yeah run down the list of the percentage of the purse and then the sponsorships and yeah and all that pad work and they say I remember one time this gym I hurt a friend from a gym that there were pain you know like 300 month in like pain like I I grew up with him so I don't know that is I Karen you wouldn't believe what's going on is very selfless of you very impressive I'm very impressed by that I think that's amazing I try you you look you get a lot of kudos in the combat sports world but I think that might be one where you deserve the most that's very very

93:19impressive yeah what routable oh I love these kids I mean this is my son you do and I do and Zoila that's my daughter and Kevin that's my son and Stephanie so you know it becomes a family and that's the things like these people say it all the times like Oh what do I need to do to train at CSA you need to move there do you have dorms nope I don't have dorms you want to train with me you got to move here and you got it and you got to want it dorms does want to get sketchy you got a bunch of weird dudes living in your gym yeah but you got to really really really want to train with me yeah cuz you got to figure out where to live you got to figure out where to do like diego lamas glory kickboxing fighter yeah he showed up one that he he messaged kevin one time i think from what i hear the story knows just and Kevin doesn't reply that out like I don't know like he hasn't replied to

94:06just anybody like that here we're talking a little busy oh yeah you should come down like you know for a couple of weeks what shows up as a just move here to the doors from Mexico brought his wife shut down his gym yes I just yeah yeah I mean you told me I had to move here yeah it's part of the team now what does that feel like to you because that's a heavy responsibility listen listen man here here's my philosophies this is when a fighter wins they did their job when a fighter loses I didn't and it's it's that simple it's literally that simple it's not a better fighter that could've helped them out to me like like so right now okay you training a guy fights Anderson oh I'll use no I'll use Alexis Alexis spa Kaitlyn and I thought it bottom line I think Alexis won that fight I can see why she didn't she wears her fights on her face like you know like Zoila does like literally if you

94:59blow it Alexis she's she swells that was a very close fight yeah exactly but if you if you look at her the wrong way she's gonna swell up right and I know that so for me the game plan was very simple very specific there were pieces of the game plan that worked the right leg kick moved her where we needed to move her the left body kick was also part of the game plan to take away what we needed Alexis wasn't throwing it Alexis didn't throw it whose fault is that mine or Alexis in my - my fault because I didn't see that that wasn't gonna happen she's thrown in in other fights so what did I do wrong how did I miss that half of the game plan that would have won this fight very easily in my opinion 100% it didn't happen I could sit back and be mad at the fighter or I can sit back and say you miss this in training you need to figure out how to avoid this you need to learn

95:51from it and that's what I do every single fight when you're watching fights at home and you see like a guy one of things that drives me nuts what I'm doing commentary like see a guy start to soften some dude up with leg kicks yeah starts to get that leg buckling a little bit and then inexplicably they stop but there's a reason they stop there on it they're not they're not conditioning their shin and they're hurting themselves 100% I could be they hurt him with a right hand and they got punch happy most that - but most of the time when I see people stop getting on a leg kick that works it's because they're feeling it in there like - because they don't condition their shins properly that's why I've talked to people about it and this so for me you're absolutely right you rock somebody the right hand you go ahead hunting 100% but a lot of the time people do not condition their

96:41legs they don't you know now you've got everybody going after the calf kick right and if you don't know how to throw a calf kick and if you don't know how to deal with if you go after a calf kick invariably you're going to catch in a lot of the time so if you're not conditioning your leg you okay you land a couple cab kicks but you know when you talk about Mighty Mouse you know he landed a beautiful calf kick in that first round that's what hurt Henry but he kept he caught some shin - and I guarantee you that didn't help his he broke his foot that didn't help ya Mighty Mouse broken a fight he's got videos of it on right now and and and that's very easy to do if you know how to check literally if you check properly you lost hair of calf kicks at all yeah I know I'm just gonna check it like I might eat one like mad snail for example he comes down and he trains with us he

97:28loves to throw a calf kicks on like all right throw it I'm just gonna it's gonna check it every time I'll counter properly if you know how to check a leg kick and you know how to check a calf kick you're gonna hurt the person doing it 1% of the time what do you recommend for cash and conditioning nothing crazy progressive dense contact so starting with a heavy bag and then a more densely packed heavy bag and then eventually you can get to a sandbag yeah that's what we do we've got three different levels of bag in the gym and we've got standard bag densely packed bag and then sandbag sandbag yeah mm-hmm damn who makes a sandbag nobody does you make it yeah no kicking sticks or anything no so what do you how do you know what kind of liner do you use to fill up with sand so it's a standard uses so you can put a liner in or if you've got a really good bag

98:26then you know it'll be okay but you put in basically a garbage bag a well done garbage bag long contract and then and then you don't want to go just sand it's still stuffing rocks yeah stuffing and sand a stuffing and sand and then you build from there and then it'll be denser at the bottom and then you start kicking higher and then you work your way down the bag and it's not even about cracking it it's just about conditioning the shin evenly as possible just deadening it up and putting those little calcium deposits all those absolutely as evenly as possible that's why I'm not a big fan of the the rolling and the hitting and because all you're doing is you're just you're you're creating these little micro breaks and fractures in variable spots it's not spreading across the shin the same way when you have a kicking target like a bag it also seems like if

99:15you're throwing kicks it's gonna be a more realistic application you know it's like throwing kicks on something and hardening your shins up just seems I I've seen guys do that with like coke bottles you know I've seen all that stuff it just doesn't snow whenever it doesn't work and that I've never done that in my life really yeah I use that Samba I use the sandbag yeah how often you use it well especially I used to even more so when I have moist ie or a kickboxing fights coming up but I'll use it every day yeah absolutely just doesn't have to be something that's out rails at a time trails you know it's amazing how much that low calf kick has made its way into MMA and how much it changes farts yeah yeah and time I understand was the first one to use it before that yeah and Thai boxing is considered kind of dirty you know yeah that's why I don't see it as much until

100:04it's considered dirt a little dirty yeah yeah you or you don't you that's why you don't see it that much it's like you know it's low-hanging fruit is cheap it worked absolutely why would it be that it's weird how the Thai boxers corn is different in beyond Thailand then in here well you know for the longest time in jiu-jitsu leglocks were dirty yeah people would go crazy if you went for a leg block they would boo until you released it people screaming you coaches would say just let it go just let it go let the leg lock go Ricardo must have that leg lock in his fight Ricardo Ramos yeah it was deep the only thing is he made he tried to make that adjustment and go behind the armpit and the guy just it was just he was doing it like they were grappling yeah you know which is a thing that people do do you know you forget that the guy can just stand up like you think that he's gonna stay

100:53engaged with you it's a common mistake that people do but he just made an adjustment and you know the guy he fought was good man yeah as a close fight good fight very very good matchup very good matchup like there was a lot of those Saturday night there's a lot of like really good was the last one in the prelims I was I was there at the fights is it my car no no no brilliant suppose that was in the prelims no no that was in the main card okay right that's right that's right yeah yeah that's right cup Swanson Jesus Christ more Connor look good hole jab but he's a real technician man he's big for your food other way yeah four five eleven yeah and but looks big yeah I know we've stayed for him baked looks he's 170 pounds and he's in the inside the the actual cage itself yeah dude he's just a very technical man like everything he does he's there's no sloppiness to him like everything and

101:49then calculate it dropped him with a jab I mean it looked like you hit him with a straight right hand on the button yeah it's crazy yeah well no cops Watson couples coming in at some time dude which is true but he's so long he's don't stiff arm it's just it was it was the way it snapped in there too was just perfect perfect timing and then to take Cubs back that quick and get him in that rear naked choke like that like pressive what Connells no joke I'm setting up the level of talent is so high right now it's really fascinating because there's guys that aren't even in the top 15 that looked like world champions from 10 years ago it's really interesting ya know the adaption is you know I say it all again I'm known as a Muay Thai coach but the best Muay Thai strikers you know don't have the best success in UFC striking you know it's it's it's it's so you know the the most decorated

102:41best muy Thai guys and gals you know Jonna you know you have to put her up there Valentina you have to put up there these are legit world champions not somebody who went to Florida and won the ikf classic or something right right but on the guy side you look at like the two best Muay Thai guys ever you know you you look at Shane Campbell I don't know if you know Shane's back but Shane Campbell literally was a world beater and Muay Thai from Canada his last fight with UFC he got dropped with a body shot and got cut because he could never really sit down on his strikes because he's always worried about the takedown gloves as well exactly Hakeem you know Hakeem world-beater in Muay Thai world champion yeah it's his first fight out he had 20 some-odd seconds - got knocked out on sake exactly Yeah right round trees a bad no taken away from Roundtree knee hits

103:36hard but it's crazy watching gokon get cracked and knocked out with one shot definitely you have it out of the plane yeah you have to respect the little gloves and you have to respect the other influences in MMA okay when and again I'm probably one of the few coaches that all like you know fixate on on losses and try to really really learn from him when he you watched his second MMA fight where he lost right the guest and he in that moment came out the very slow twitch he was very almost mcgregor s he was going through a little phase that i didn't pick up on in camp and he comes out in this kid that he's fighting as a karate kid super talented kid right and literally the speed at which they were fighting stylistically was different he was in second gear and this kid was in fifth gear you agree with this yeah yes what was what was the motivation behind

104:33your changing of your style a little bit like I said I was going through a lot that okay and I just started yeah I remember like what just walking out I just wasn't like like I said like my last kickboxing fight the fight before that I just felt even the spinning back elbow one I just felt at home I was like yeah you can see me smiling like you know doing back elbow might be the greatest spinning back elbow ko in the history of MMA thank you man that was ridiculous we played it on this podcast at least he's like you want to see a spinning elbow what are you talking about Italy Kevin Lee - the Mac yeah when that elbow hit his jaw like here it is watch here oh come on man I mean that that is that's the greatest spinning elbow of all time it just is it can't get any better I mean he's done that that can't get better eight times he's done that eight times I'm not sort of landing it

105:34I'm talking about finishing fights with that elbow oh I know he has but that's the best of all the ones he said well that's it in my appointment that's the best way to land charts that's the best way to I know they're coming in your for the force of their punch let me see that one more time see I slip the jab yeah at the same time well you threw that kick first yeah he's coming with the job slipping yeah oh he's not expecting it he's caring he's not expecting to get hit dude that is so ridiculous yeah but now everybody he changed he literally changed my weight I in America he didn't invent that but it was the first time anybody saw it and amateur tournaments now like in California you cannot throw a spinning elbow until after your fourth amateur fight because of him Wow because it does so much damage it does so much damage and the way he throws it does damage

106:25like if you see like John is throwing it like John Jones throws it but he hits the forearms because he throws it horizontally as tall as John is if John wants to finish people with that elbow he needs to come down with it he's the mark down and drop his weight even if they're shell he'll split down the middle the angle at which he throws if you're taller than him he's gonna come underneath and they're shorter than him or the same height also throw it like at the same time as I'm throw a right hand and I just go through so I'll throw it either either way I'll go either way he's knocked people out on the hillside it's not just one side I've always felt like the best people that transition from kickboxing to MMA are the really explosive ones which is one of the reasons why crow cop did so well in MMA not just because he dedicated him to dedicated himself to it which was a huge

107:13factor but also because when you watch cro cop in k1 he was a exploder he would like take potshots at people and just he would have to it yeah and he would have a naked kick or a naked punch like he he wasn't like a guy who's there throwing a lot technical stuff and set things up he would whack no out of nowhere I throw full powerful because he was so fast and that translates extremely well to MMA right in my opinion yeah the the pace of Muay Thai it can be a little slower yeah so when you're dealing with like with his fight like I said he's coming in you know relaxed and and in slow twitch and thinking timing and bouncing a little bit and this kid is a karate kid and he's immediately like you said Flair right you don't see it coming we're gonna get caught right so that's where I think strikers that listen and no disrespect to that kid I think that kid

108:04is one of the best one of the Brandon I can't remembers last name one of the best him his name is Brandon I forget his last name you don't remember I can't I can't remember his last name most people when they lose cigar that that names etched in their head forever no you let it go God you got to you got to let it go man you got to but that kid he's talent you if you don't just put pull-up cast on loroco where it is loroco yeah that kid is an uber talented kid I was absolutely and you know he might not have Gaston look you might not have some of what Gaston brings to the table and he hasn't really caught on since super talented kid he wasn't disrespected in that fight he just wasn't he wasn't there was no film on him we didn't know who he was his style was not anticipated and he came out super slow and he got caught do you that's MMA do you train much with

109:01karate stylists or someone who's got that because it seems to me that's like when you have like a Wonder Boy Thompson style yeah there's there's there's something to that you know there's something to that that's like it's very weird to deal with that's different when people are unorthodox in general it's just so hard to like really McDaniels it's hard to it's hard to really like get going with people like that and like I like Karyn was saying I come from a background like a five-round muy Thai fighters Dara and I got normally and he can agree with me like my first few fights I take the first round off I'm just like alright let's get going let's see what he's got right it's like we have feel like we got five rounds to work here right that's where the Kevin's had the most with kickboxing is because he's used to five rounds and the first round is just

109:46kind of feel amount right you know right so as coaches it's our job to change that and that's how I struggle with that a lot with my Thai guys because again I'll make like Zoila I'll make Gaston I had these guys fight when we tie fights as well because it's definitely going to help your striking but if you fixate on that rhythm that footwork that timing and MMA that's where you're gonna have the most trouble so those karate stylists are gonna give you trouble and the wrestlers are gonna give you trouble because you're never gonna be to sit down on anything well Michael venom page is probably one of the most exciting guys in Bellator his last fight do nothing not the boxing one know that MMA fight oh my god he's a monster yes but it's that style it's that bullet you ever see him fight Raymond Daniels in point karate no I did there's some videos of them fighting on it's crazy

110:34there's sprite Matty junior there's so fast but I've said for a while that I think there's there's something really good to that that ability like blitz especially when you're dealing with little gloves and you know and and MMA rules I just think that there's that's a that's a really important skill that a lot of people don't have that ability to blitz and if you have that sort of slow first round Thai style here here's the two of these guys I look at them I mean this is like fast twitch muscle over heaven I want to say this is yeah there it is yeah so seven years ago they want to take each other so fast but they're trying to score points you know this is such a different game you know I I did a little bit of this stuff when I was competing it's so different the range is so beautiful - why well it's also hey stop it with every strike oh they stopped it yeah every time you

111:29touch each other they stop it and they score a point so it's super unrealistic in terms of an actual fight and the the thought process behind it is nonsense the thought process was that you should be able to kill somebody with one punch right and then all you have to do is touch them and then then stop that could have killed the guy it's it's nonsense but the benefit to it is much like the benefit of learning Taekwondo early you learn Taekwondo early because you develop leg dexterity that you would never develop if you threw in leg kicks and punches and takedowns and all those other things it's very rare that someone goes through just a traditional martial arts bat or a traditional MMA background where you're just learning everything takedowns leg kicks all you ever develop kicks the way someone who's like a real high-level Taekwondo practitioner does but those

112:17Taekwondo guys they have so many holes in their games because of that and it's the same thing with karate guys but that skill that these guys have of being able to touch each other the first I mean if you add all that other stuff like venom page has you ad submissions add leg kicks elbow then you got a crazy combination yeah that's that's part of what we've we've had a lot of success within our striking is that yeah more Thai but at the end of the day our boxing is will box it's Western boxing you know we'll do Dutch combos we'll do Thai clinch Thai elbows but we'll also adapt our striking for MMA and most Muay Thai coaches aren't really thinking how you know the MMA go like you don't throw leg kicks when somebody's coming forward in an MMA fight you're gonna get taken down right you they have to be backing up you have to stop them with something most Thai coaches aren't going to go out

113:06of their way to learn the sport of MMA to become an effective MMA striker because I'm like like sake listen I know his Roundtree's coach Jason Park who's out of boxing works with Bryan Popejoy tremendous gym down here in Southern California and Gogan throws that blind leg kick and he throws it from that side and it leaves his head open they plan for that that was a planned counter that wasn't just luck of the draw that's an MMA coach with a solid Muay Thai background whose understanding understanding striking for MMA versus someone like Cogan who again one of the best strikers to ever be in the UFC who hasn't really adapted unlike acro cop to MMA yet well it's also gokon came into the UFC with how many fights I mean how many fights is that guy had in kickboxing no more times but how many MMA fights it was like oh why he came yeah I think he was on yeah and that that's you know you'll get

114:07that a lot with people like Jermaine when when I first started training in Jermaine day run dami I bombed when the broader over here she was own one she got her arm broken by Vanessa Porto in a Florida fight right how are you pronouncing de Ron da me though she says it yeah cuz everybody says de Rhonda me yeah no they run Tommy I've heard a say there and ami yeah she does Leslie say it how they want but why did she decided not fight cyborg what was that all about cuz she won the title beat Holly Holm and then said yeah you know that said she called her steroid cheat well you're gonna sit you're like you're gonna say what you're gonna say in the moment right so you know when she when I met her she was she was own one she was like the most dominant female kick boxer of all time he's knocked out a dude yeah absolutely I did she was training with shawn tompkins and then Sean passed away and

115:01her manager at the time said hey she needs a place to go so brought her over we met and helped her get her visa I got her signed with Strikeforce and she thought of that playboy image yeah it did a few different things and her and Miriam never really got along so I could see early on her and Mirim never sparred drilled a couple times never sparked once well I had both of them at the gym that seems kind of crazy well then we're gonna fast-forward that over to the cyborg thing at the end of the day I feel like in that moment jermaine achieved what she wanted to achieve and for whatever reason whoever was advising her at the time I think she should have taken that fight I think she should have done that fight she wasn't with me at the time I can't judge what happened cyborg yeah she had an injury apparently to earth um she she said I interviewed her after the Holly Holm

115:49fight just said she need to get surgery nurse um correct but then she changed the story later and said she's never gonna fight cyborg I don't understand that I mean but you you if you're gonna call her a cheat okay she was a cheap before you even went to 145 pound division you knew inevitably this is what was gonna happen right so I I questioned that as a person nice girl you know what do you think it is then I mean had the only thing that I would say is she doesn't want to fight her because she doesn't think she could beat her I I think that I I definitely think that that's got to be in somebody's head I can't say not I I can't say yeah she's like when they like when they presented the cyborg fight to me for Miriam I said yes right away I said yes we'll do it in kickboxing in Muay Thai yes I would not have said yes in MMA right I just would not have right

116:42it's not gonna go well it's it's just not for someone like that and right Germain does not have enough experience in MMA if Germain is on her back she's not getting up she's just not a man Nunez showed that people show that she doesn't have that skill yet right so just say hey I'm not ready for this yet maybe I don't know I can say that when you're the world champion yeah I but I saw how she she hasn't fought since that night since she beat Holly she's talking about fighting again and like I said we're friendly I mean we you know there's no bad blood it just wasn't get that thumb fixed I believe she did yeah yeah yeah there's just it wasn't a good fit for the gym you know for her and I but she again she's still under contract she got the surgery I wish her well I think she's going back to 35 from what I understand well if she can go to 35 she should because cyborg can't yeah so you

117:36seen that video of her cutting weight do oh my next to her before I've shook her hand she's gigantic she weighs a buck eighty-five if she weighs a pound I mean she's walking around very very heavy and thick and so she obviously diets down gets in there like 170 pound range diets down a little bit more gets in the 165 pound range and then begins the dehydration process but she is enormous when she gets into that cage yeah then the problem is California with that 10% rule there's no way she makes it there's no way she makes that I think that is just a recommendation though the first time it's a worksheet but there's there's a couple guys at the weight in the next day like heavier than the 10% and it would be interested heavier didn't she fight in California though after the rule it would be interesting to know what she weighed in at on very interesting because they don't give

118:27that information now just they would like boxing does like HBO they'll show I read yeah that's cool I read the California I read yesterday that California was gonna start releasing the fight day weights stirred that guy who's the head of the California State Athletic Commission he's on the ball that guy is on the ball he's so ahead of the curve you know with all that with implementation of additional weight classes with with like catching people doing steroids with just I love that guy man no Andy Andy has been great for the sport in California and when people talk about Oh Dana's gonna change the way in times and this innocent is I don't believe that Andy foster would let that happen in his lifetime well here's what I think if you're gonna have this weigh-in thing early in the morning let them weigh in all day till the limit if it's four o'clock in the

119:22afternoon where they're supposed to weigh in have it cut it off at 3:30 so you know for sure whether or not someone's gonna make it but the problem is you you wake up at 8 o'clock in the morning you only have two hours you you're that's not is the same as being able to do it all throughout chess hey where your body would normally just lose a little bit of weight anyway it changes it changes everything that timing and that's that's where you know you look at the numbers was like oh you know two years span before they change the timing X amount of people missed wait - yeah band sense this many people people's push it they do push it you give them more time and they are gonna push it if they know that they could rehydrate longer which is the idea is it's safer because you can rehydrate from 8 a.m. till 4 p.m. instead of you know from 4 p.m. on I just think that give them all

120:04the time they need you know and one FC's laid out the groundwork just look at what they did with their rehydration tests and and or hydration test rather than implementing weight is just silly like I was talking to my girlfriend about it and she was like wait you guys she didn't know much about fighting out of time you know obviously but she was like you guys make this wait but the next day you're not you're not the same way so why not just not weigh in yeah I guess stupid it sounds really stupid don't you fight that it's sanctioned cheating yes sanctioned cheesy it's cheating at a much higher scale even than peds if you get two people when they both weigh 135 but they're both you know they're both totally hydrated and one of them has been doing steroids and one of them hasn't been doing steroids the difference will be far less than if one person weighs in at 135 but then

121:00balloons up to 160 and then gets into that octagon at 160 but there's no peds involved well that's a much greater advantage well someone who's doing some some sort of a testosterone thing something especially with them with more time now to rehydrate it's still not enough time right you know the 48 hours you know whatever the current is compromised yeah you're absolutely the benefit might outweigh the benefit of being so much larger might outweigh being compromised well absolutely and be and if you look at the previous record it was you know a losing record for fighters that missed weight when it was a five o'clock way and now it's a winning record for fighters that miss weight and an 11:00 a.m. weigh-in because they have more time to recover dude in my I would fix that first that would be the first thing now it fixed the next thing I'd fix is judging yeah idea that you have

121:49win bonus and loss bonus but you haven't fixed the judging is goddamn crazy it's crazy adage I throw my hands up sometimes now I can't even say anything anymore because I've had so many rants about it and they've gone nowhere and nothing gets done and you still have people that literally have never applied an armbar in their life they've never taken a punch in the face in their life they've never thrown a kick in competition in their life and they're judging these fights and they don't even train I mean you forget competition just have a love of the sport they didn't have a love of the support they're just doing it as a job it's crazy it is crazy when you have a limited supply or unlimited rather an unlimited supply of people who are martial arts experts who would make fantastic judges all throughout the world you have so many of thousands of them yeah I mean how many people

122:43are giant martial arts fans that are on whether it's Sherdog or mixed martial arts calm you know filling them the name of the website right there's so many people that are in engrossed in martial arts all day long that's what they live for and they Jill debate whether or not so who'd oh should have won round two or mighty mouth should wanted with effective striking and it's like it's real comprehensive conversation going on these people that are judging the fights can't even have that conversation if you had a conversation with half the UFC judges if I had them here and I sat them down and I said you know let's let's watch a fight and you tell me what you think's going on here well tell me what you think is better tell me what you think how hard what does a low calf kick feel like you know what does it feel like when you get hit with a liver shot you know what when when is a guy

123:31safe in a triangle and when is he in danger how can you protect yourself who's dominating what position yeah when is a guy just laying on top to breathe is the grass in the third round or when are they like doing the amateur they don't know recogni can you recognize the progression do you understand what a guy has to do to get out of the out of the garden do you understand what a guy has to do to escape from an arm triangle if you don't you have no business putting these guys livelihoods and their records and literally half their earning you have no business half the money if you have a if you're getting 50 and 50 this cost you $50,000 by not knowing anything that is insane to me that should be fixed and why is there three judges why three it says who cuz boxing's always done it that way what do we suck in copycats that doesn't make any sense we should have five have five judges

124:23Lori's been doing that you have a much greater chance of getting it right with the five judges and have five judges make these take tests first of all that's that's one thing second why 10-point must system what the is that that's some boxing why are you using a boxing scoring system for something that involves takedown submissions leg kicks punches elbows knees like there's too many things there's way too many things it's it's a crazy system it absolutely that's what I get the the most the discussions for Muay Thai it's the same thing yes it's the same exact problem aim problem it's not there you know what's what's worth more what's not worth Thailand well it depends now in Thailand they're starting to just kind of score things evenly cuz there's just three three-minute rounds yeah they want to do they want Muay Thai in the Olympics right so you can't score the body kick

125:16more than a leg kick in the Olympics right the weapons have to be equal is what they want from the the International Olympic Committee because it used to be like oh you know I've been to Thailand three times mmm and I'll go to lumpini or Raja and you know these guys were like and sometimes it would be foreigners Frank's fighting against Thai isn't like that was like punch and you know and do all this low kicks and stuff like that and then they tie over there with two body kicks and they'll win the round because the body kick scores more right and the Thai score I mean it's designed for gambling right so right it's it's one of those things where you know people scream it's not traditional Thai it's not traditional Thai it's not traditional Thai at the end of the day no one's saying the traditional times right either the body kick should not be worth more than a punch to them why I

126:00believe they have changed they have yeah and if not if everything everything else is damaged damaged right hard shot hard shots versus you know but is even that subjective like what is a hard shot and what's not on watch it is it is here especially because it's the ABC yeah you know Adelaide bird judged Kevin's fight with your motto she did so smile I see it drives me crazy though yeah and literally it's my my opinion is if she gave the fight to Yamato because I guarantee you she didn't know that elbows were supposed to mean more just because Kevin was bleeding yeah yeah and that's all she could see yeah I remember I was my 21st birthday I walked I walked off because I thought Kevin won there's one around where I mean there's one round where he threw seven body left body body in a row and on answered yeah just boom boom boom boom boom boom and he had some blood on him and he lost a

127:06fight I mean what are you gonna do yeah unreal yeah it's unfortunate and it's it's it's not this the here's the thing I've been saying this forever nothing changes you know what I was really surprised this past weekend I was talking to Daniel Cormier and I said I think the stupidest rule is that 12 to 6 elbow and he said I like that rule and I said really I said you don't think that 12 to 6 elbow should be legal he goes you ever get hit by a 12 to 6 elbow on the ground I said no I haven't and he said oh yeah believe me man it sucks I go but doesn't every elbow on the ground suck yeah yeah I mean I would think that just getting hit this way you know just a regular elbow it sucks on the ground your heads planted yeah you're not going anywhere you just take it it isn't legal and Muay Thai either from from the clinch when you're going 12 to 6 I was not legal it's not like no no it's

127:55not you can in the air right you can Joe it's not legal in the US in the it's it's in the US the twelve to six elbow because it's ABC I mean partly a video of him leaping through the air literally climbing the tree elbowing someone in the back of the head with it it's like this doesn't count because when you're in the air digital becomes analog he sent me this ridiculous I saw that I saw that explanation Miriam's fight and if my she ended up getting her fight she was the gold medal fight she ended up getting it moved to the King's Cup and that was happening at the same time as the World Championships just because she was landing so many 12 to 6 flying elbows on girls they'd never seen it from a woman before and she was going crazy yeah I mean literally just flying with just across the ring just chopping girls down with 12 to 6 elbows but her performance that was like oh nine yeah

128:45that performance on that he's run through girls like scary and that 12 to 6 elbow it's no more dangerous the most dangerous elbow in all of combat sports is the spinning elbow yeah how the it at 12 to 6 L will be more powerful than no there's no there's no more dangerous elbow Tyler toner the kid that he landed it on first Dwayne's kid he is a pseudo veteran he's a UFC veteran Logue is orderable Brokers orbitally retired I mean ever fought again because I started to sink into plate on the bottom because yeah I think the broken orbital is so weird because often time has changed the way the eye looks like remember when Bob Sapp well I think he has a lazy eye No yeah he does cop broke Bob saps eyeball like he punched his eyeball through the back of his head where the orbital you know there's a there's a hole right where the I'm all sits like you see that thing

129:39yeah he was fractured behind it and so now Bob's got one eye that's big and one eye that's little yeah from getting tagged by cro cop the 12 to 6 elbow that has no more effect than any other and that was a straight left hand with kick boxing gloves on that's how hard cro cop hits yeah think about that dude yeah he was a bad and still is yeah and the thing though is that it just it just doesn't make any sense to me that like like here's one that people are trying to say that should be banned the side kick to the knee or the oblique kick to the knee that how is that why would you ban that we don't ban heel hooks like that seems crazy to me why would you ban that when you don't ban wheel kicks yeah like it's okay to literally bounce your heel off someone's head when you're spinning your body around like a top and you have unbelievable power like a wheel kick

130:34like remember that when Terry Adam got knocked out by Edson Barboza my god he just he just dropped it was literally like someone hit his switch that might be the best like spinning kick I've seen it was the first ever wheel kick ko in the UFC yeah and I mean we've had a few since then but it's just now that's just crazy technique yeah you got that here it is why is the rose and put on the commentary oh I was literally saying take a chance and risk getting knocked out and Terry Adam got knocked out hosing yeah I mean that was parmesan man that's a bad dude he's a bad one of my favorite fights of em was when he fought at the NJ quani that might that was I think that's my favorite stand-up fight I see Andrew kiwannis is such a great kickboxer himself Muay Thai fighters doing now that's he's he says last fight was more time he's so he's all more time now he's doing yeah yeah he won he

131:36the triumphant is his brother more time fighting as well no Chitty Chitty is doing I think she'd might be in that tournament is is he music I don't know Chinese in the Chinese side with Bellator no but he's not making ones oh no he's fighting 185 is Bellator doing Michael Page vs. Sam Tex Paul Daley they do that yeah they're doing it they're doing and then they're in opposite brackets of Mousasi Anna oh good lord yeah Bellator reveals welterweight tournament bracket including Michael Page versus Paul Daley so page versus Daly's on one side and this side is Mousasi gonna fight it 170 wait a minute that's not real right Mousasi is fighting once some no Rory's going up to fight massage just announced today okay this is so oriental to weight loss is a big 185 make that larger again so I can see what this is this is really strange so what they're doing is they're gonna

132:32do Rory MacDonald distempers aside yeah so Rory MacDonald staying in this welterweight Grand Prix as well as he's quite super fight yeah but yes do a super fight September 29th then lorenz larkin still in the mix - he's an alternate he's a nice man Lorenz Larkin is a beast you know me he lost to Lima and then he got stopped by daily but still he's a minor and course cough man looked did you see that was spinning back-kick that horse and he literally sent that dude flying through the air that I fought on that card that was crazy yeah and Douglass Lima looks like a heavyweight yeah it looks like a heavyweight like you like how the is that guy 170 he's got to be one of the bigger weight cutters in the sport right absolutely see this is what I'm thinking when I'm looking at this I'm like this is a really good tournament like Bellator is getting really close when you got Lima

133:29who's world-class korish croff world-class we saw that when he fought Benson Henderson for short right but Lima stopped him and then he got Paul de Leeuw who literally can stop anybody that lands that left hand goal would anybody sleep a night yeah it's gonna be a banger yeah and Rory MacDonald who shut Paul de Leeuw down you know and also beat Lima and then you got John Fitch who seems reborn you know after he beat Paul de Leeuw very interesting right he's a good tournament plus very little drug testing we're california-based Joe we don't know yeah we got C but it's it's fascinating you see the difference between guys in the early days of the UFC when it was the Wild West versus now I mean bodies have changed careers have taken different paths yeah listen I'm I'm a fan if if it's not legal then it should all be illegal and I'm a fan of you solder they visit my gym so many up or

134:31Alexis's because like in two months I think should they came about four times I don't know now operate on rumors no no no Alexis if you look at Alexis Davis she's not someone that so many things yeah that's what I'm saying that's why I think it's just because the you sada rep is very active in that area yeah so though she's come she's tested Todd she's tested Dustin she's tested Alexis a lot yeah Todd Duffee yeah she's tested a lot so well Todd Duffee was on testosterone replacement at one point in time before my time I believe so well he was when he was like 25 he wasn't yeah I wasn't he's he's been he's been with me now for like the past year I renegotiated his UFC agreement I love Todd he was fighting great guy Tata Todd as a heavyweight was fighting for like 10 and 10 before i renegotiated his deal but you just had shoulder surgery and you just had knee surgery so we're

135:29hoping to get him he has knee surgery yeah oh man yeah soldier surgery like six years six months ago he's still young though he 32 yeah he's not that he's not that old I think mentally I as a heavyweight I can in him being a head where maybe in the featherweight we can train together and spar yeah he's just so controlling so against okay so I'm so quick for a head we don't we don't spar hard yeah we really don't you don't no we don't no no the hardest ice part 4-5 probably when Cody came down there when I went up there that was twice and no we don't we'd really yeah I don't small heart that is so smart and I love hearing that is I just feel like so many fighters make that mistake yeah well you come from a boxing background you spar like three days a week at least two right and you don't you know you're going as hard as you can and then you know kickboxing

136:21you know ties they don't spar that hard oh well you know they're done fighting or whatever but the truth of the matter is is that with all of the weapons that you have in MMA and all the weapons that you have in Thai boxing your sparring hard with those weapons the chance of injury is gigantic through the roof if you're throwing spinning elbows and training it's a full clip I can show and I use I use him as the examples that people come coach if I don't if I don't throw this hard how am I gonna know that I can land it in a fight hard well God's never put anybody down with a spinning elbow in the gym and he can land it in a fight that's and I can let it I can show it really well like in the gym like to the point that I'm like right right right and I just stop them like I just want to I just raised my hand I would have been it ya know we we've never been a hard barn it's one of the

137:09more controversial debates right whether or not you should spar hard it's not really the thing you have to I absolutely some people Ross thinks you have to I disagree with for us I disagree I listen to the inspiring people yes try to knock out George yes I I get that and I I understand it I don't agree with it I just don't the human body is fragile man the he of the brain is fragile you cannot condition an organ right but how could you argue with his success rate I mean it's really interesting it's like he's look aka who the bar is harder than a KA those guys are animals yet they go at each other but look Luke Rockhold world champ Daniel Cormier world champ Cain Velasquez world champ beep nurmagomedov world champ and a litany of assassins just waiting in the wings I mean in my opinion succeeding in spite of not because ah interesting yeah well it's it's certainly a debate

138:05and your opinion is very well respected and I'm I am on your side I like the idea of I think you know how to fight and what you're really doing is sharpening up your your your reaction times and your techniques and in graining those paths right you're in grading those reaction paths and I don't necessarily think that the way to do that is to go full clip but I think oftentimes when you do that it actually makes you have less options inside the cage because you're so like wound up and tight and when you're sparring this way you're fighting robbie lawler stop sparring for a while he stops barn for like seven years I mean yeah you develop what I have people that come to the gym and again when it when it comes to stand-up only you know I'll put our record and our people against anybody in North America and we don't spar hard and I get people to come to the gym all the time coming from a

138:58hard sparring background and they are missing weapons they are missing tools they are in fight-or-flight mode right away you are developing that sniper bite down on your mouthpiece attitude which is one attribute of fighting sometimes you do need to bite down on your mouthpiece but it doesn't work out for at least one of the two people doing it in a fight yeah I like what you just said that's one attribute of fighting absolutely it is one I mean you can't deny that it is one but but it is only one and technical proficiency is the most important yeah being able to you know throw jabs establish jab stablished pros use fakes and faints movement and being defensively sound and have that incredible variable repertoire that exactly yeah and that was one of the things you saw in the fight with Kody versus TJ TJ had a bigger toolbox yeah you know in terms of his movement I mean he was more

139:53fluid while he was doing it you know and that ultimately proved to be what was most important in that fight i 100% go to the grave believing that cody is a far better boxer than TJ that didn't translate into an MMA fight on Saturday night for whatever reason you know whether it's anger whether it was the last fight whether it was gameplan lack of coaching but whatever it was 100% I that you know code did not show who or what he is that what have you worked with Cody no would you wanna um sure I work with anybody I'll work with anybody that has a good attitude and and is willing to embrace my way of doing because I think he's a very talented guy and I think he could really benefit from training with someone like you yeah I again and I think that the relationship that we're developing with alpha-male they've got a ton of great guys there is a good one but I am careful not to overstep my

140:58bounds right and you know I don't say hey I could fix you know I wouldn't I wouldn't do that the guys there that want to work with me I happily work with and they allow my guys to go up there and wrestle which is what we need right so it's been a good fit but I would never poach anybody good for you man good for you yeah that's yeah you don't want that bad blood not that bad juju on you so what colin going forward with your camp and with your career what are you guys doing now that's different than you have done in the past you have you added anything in terms of strength and conditioning or recovery or anything that you find really beneficial strength conditioning has always been something that we've done really well for for us you know recently over the last couple of years you know we added Darren I think is really kind of the Darren who you yeah but the bone-crushing

141:56we've added we've added the bone crusher he's our head MMA coach I'm his striking coach but what he's brought to the table on Instagram to watch oh absolutely likes guns is such a such an incredible IQ when it comes to fighting and then it made so much knowledge and so many things like sometimes you can agree like sometimes you click with people and like that's what happens between me and him like I only like rolling with him really because he he'll get me in positions that I'm gonna probably be in a fight but he'll like walk me through them right at the same time versus like just like learning curve for a striker they're two different languages right that's why the grapplers have trouble striking the strikers have trouble grappling someone like Darren who can do both that can take a kid like Gaston it can walk him through the positions the right choices the wrong choices in the moment

142:46while he's doing it it's very rare that I have found in Darren you know again he's half Gracie black belt feel the world champion but he started out working the front desk at fair tax so he's been around grappling Alex Gong is his idol you know that's his brother from another I mean so you know we checked off bucket list for Darren and he's done to Muay Thai fights at a pro level now you know just pro Muay Thai and he's done well yeah I've been following that yes and and it's one of those things where he wants to shoot boxing now and wants to go back to Japan or whatever he wants to do I'm gonna support him in but his knowledge of the entire MMA game has helped our gym so much in our fight team I mean I think in the UFC our win rate is like 78 percent you know Matt Dustin Alexis all these people came to us off of losing records you know then Dustin lost two in a row

143:33he's about to get cut Matt lost three in a row Alexis had lost two in a row we have a lot of you Dustin look fantastic in his last fight that Dustin hit kick it out of nowhere what a crazy angle yeah she's like the handles up in there yeah it's totally just one threw it through the hand so there's also the angle yeah it was like a 45 degree head well the Dustin's flexibility isn't that great so that's the kick we work on yeah he can't turn it over the son of a stretch well he does he does but absolutely absolutely but from a flexibility standpoint he's big you enough her so he can throw that kick the way he throws it so we embraced it because it's kinda like an off-speed pitch yes that's you know he like slowed down and then Zach what he said when he described it yeah we talked about it the other day yeah so and again that's why you know we talked about people

144:24switching like you know when we talk about mateus his opponent I remember his last name you know we knew what a great boxer he was but whenever he went southpaw he didn't do anything southpaw didn't Dustin do some work with that sand goon stepper does that's all the time he does all the time I've got that thing here now ya know Dustin swears by it he loves that thing yeah and every day that is a crazy look for people that don't know and don't know what it is they sent me one on the sand dune stepper is like these two really smushy pads that are together and it's great for it's almost like standing on a stability ball right like you stand on when they're all mushy and you got to kind of use all your stable I never use it Dustin runs up Dustin runs on it yeah I mean literally just Sprint's on it just does get left right left left right yeah yeah all day long he does upper body -

145:12and incorrectly wrong he had like some ankle issues and that that corrected for him yes yes yes yeah so no he's he's somebody who you know literally like we talk about my gym Dustin showed up one day didn't even call me I was before the makovski fight he showed up in my gym one day and started taking classes I don't even know who he was Wow I had no idea well he had come in like two years before that right when he was with Duke when he was when he was a Duke he came in and visited did a class then he came back in did a class know if you have seen he's like yeah I got a fight coming up he said what he trained me and I said sure I said that's fine so we trained him for it I was actually in Italy with Kevin for Bellator Gaston I cornered him when he fought macaques si yeah they're in Toronto yeah yeah yeah that first fight and literally that first camp he and I didn't do a single

145:58pad session he all he did was classes I was kid that's how humble he is he didn't come in I'm a UFC guy and this and that and that's what I'm looking for him and I worked a little bit we did a little yes I was gonna corner hand yeah carrying obviously knew he was gonna be cornering Kevin so I went up there with him so we start working a little bit together but it's such a great guy man good vibes from Dustin Ortiz yeah it seems like a really great guy and he's got like six goddamn lungs like he'll just never get tired he's one of those guy he's a 125 or I'm a featherweight but you can spar like 20 rounds with that guy and he will not stop coming at you yeah well with this win this past weekend when Sahu don't beat DJ that way class just opened wide up yeah that's that's what happens when something like that happens it happened Chris Weidman beat Anderson Silva when the the

146:46undefeatable champion gets beaten and all sudden contenders will rise yeah yeah and so this is an interesting time for everybody at 125 it's just such a hard weight class to find elite fighters and yeah yeah and you know I've talked to Bellator about exotic people out but they have no interest in it none no one's just in 25 nope no right there they're debating how long they want to keep 35 really really interesting but they don't do women in kickboxing under 125 you know they won't go near it and they don't do women over 145 and they don't want any men they don't have any men you've never seen a man kickbox for Bellator less than a hundred forty-five pounds yeah it's no random is that because they're worried about power I think they're just worried about marketability right yeah but that's the thing is like the bigger people hit harder yeah kind of more

147:37exciting to watch yeah listen gentlemen this has been fun it's always fun it's fun this time I didn't talk last time I got a lot of for not talking last time you talked a little bit but who gave you just everybody all I want you to tell him to shut the up it wasn't it wasn't about me it was about Kevin again thank you for having us oh my pleasure anytime listen I think what you're doing is really awesome I love the fact that you're competing in three different sports and the fact that you're doing it at the highest level it's it's really inspiring and it's interesting and it's very compelling you know and you're doing it at an awesome way yeah it's really watchman I keep I plan and keep doing it and I want as far as long as I can so I just go solely into MMA but I mean I'm having fun I love fighting I've been doing this almost 12 years also I like to stay busy

148:27so anything that I can do if I can do more time if I can the kickboxing if I can do it in May I'll do it all and CSA gym on Instagram is just CSA Jim Crowe at CSA gym Instagram Facebook and Twitter and dream killer underscore bolaños spelled belongs for vol a man notice all right beautiful yeah thank you John thank you thank you son thank you