JRE MMA Show #32 with Firas Zahabi

00:05three-two-one boom I don't want to start off like this is a commercial dude but this thing you have this Tim Tam this is incredible tikka I've ever I've seen some of these different ones online people using them Thera things you know know what they call them faragon I think but this thing is amazing this is the most powerful one it has the the highest travel and it's the best price so I mean it's not all the different ones of these things online yeah this is the best one so what this is folks we took the battery out I'll put the battery back you go first that's how impressed I am by this thing so I've had this nagging muscle in my hip and then like instantaneously you hold it folks and you get it like right on spot for me it's like right here and go it just loosens that up like this is so much more powerful than any of those massages that you get like

01:11from a store exactly no there's not much larger more powerful than this one on the market like this is not for mom and dad you know this for the guy doing you know playing soccer football MMA crossfit like that's for the hardcore athletes and you invented this I I started the company I started the company I bought one of those DMS I don't know ever heard of those it's called deep muscle stimulator it's kind of talking about that before and I save this save this yeah yeah exactly so what is that it's the deep muscle stimulator it's like a stainless steel high-powered massager that you have to plug in it cost me three grand I bought it it had a really bad sciatica for two years like I almost stopped training like I almost had to take a like I've got a problem with that right now really sad ok this is gonna help you out the comes and goes big time I mean I was I was so bad I

01:54couldn't sleep like I could not sleep because I was just yours go all the way I get mine in my calf sometimes really and all all the way down to the calf for some weird reason me and went down to the hamstring and then stopped there like III was able to stop the problem there but they say you can go all the way down to the calves that's that's getting bad yeah get my calf right now so I bought that DMS there it is you know that you DMS go migrate machine great machine but it overheats it costs three grand and what is that that piston dude is it hammer are you already at hammers do it has this like this yeah but it has a lesser travel this one has a greater travel so that one the DMS is a little bit too vibration it's not as much travel it's not as much percussion percussion is what you're looking for and so when I got together with a company from the US

02:43disrupt we put together the the Tim time tech company we went to China we checked out a hundred different type of guns we got this one going this was the best one and this things in crap it's incredible I hate to sound like this like you paid me to do an endorsement he didn't folks this is this thing you should sell these should be flying off the chart they even need drones they should just be flying themselves so you know what the thing was a muscle stimulator is we have to share it in the gym this is you buy your own personal gun you know and because the deep muscle stimulator it's 3,000 bucks you know to lend it out or how much is one of these four it's four hundred bucks five-year warranty that's a bargain it's a bar anybody who trains really hard yeah that's a bargain it's a massage for life it's your health you know that's nice man it's like a sawzall exactly it's

03:33like I took a sawzall and you put like a little rubber it's like we tried so many other type of machines but they're all over heat week you know they're not efficient the most efficient is already been created so we just retooled it we just reach ange it we made it so that it's you can use it on the human body there's some modifications made but that's it I mean it's pretty simple it's it's the most efficient type of design they have yeah it's kind of it's really hard to find someone who can massage you correctly it's very hard to find someone is good exactly someone who could really break up the tissue but even if you do like what this thing can do this thing is like vibrating you and shaking everything loose and I have a have a cone tip I got to send you see if it goes even deeper so if you can handle deep tissue I'm gonna send you a bunch of them okay yeah you're gonna love it

04:19we have also cold tip hot tip it's especially a freeze them you can freeze them because that helps kill the pain so if you have an acute acute and after like a week or two and you want to start working on it the the cold of the tip helps numb the pain helps manage pain a little more and the hot tip helps loosen up the muscle a little further I am also used the concept the context for those who have you know their experience with massage you're you're able to go deep tissue and for some people that hurts for me it's it's it's perfect so you find like where the scar tissue is you can break it up exactly the surface area on the cone tip is obviously smaller so it goes even in deeper and and unlocks that muscle real quick so for me I don't have the time for foam rolling you know that's the the main reason why I wanted a product like this because foam rolling takes forever

05:01to break to really loosen up a muscle mhm and I'm in the gym all day do I want to stay you know in the gym another hour rolling up and down on a foam roller I think you got to do something though right yeah exactly kind of have to do something if you're training hard and you want to train for life what do they call it supernova so yeah the crossbar balls yeah but it's larger yes it's like a big blue one I love that thing it's a rope makes it that gets in there but this is even better than that this thing is incredible I like the ball for my back when I do my back I can lie down on it I can get the pressure I want but I use when I do my legs I use the tip down yeah when I go on the road I bring that ball with me and I'll put it on the ground and a hotel room on our bridge on it and then just like hit like certain spots and it amazing pop everything loose you need a lot of body

05:52weight sometimes I put a kettlebell on my chest and you get even deeper mmm and you could really unlock a muscle like this I mean you really get in there and really unlock it for people who train they know you know when you get that nagging type muscle in your neck and your shoulder your shoulder blades yeah then you're on the mat you do a quick movement you know yeah that's scary so I did it once in the shower I had something going on my neck I guess and I didn't realize how bad it was and I turned the shower to get something and then for exactly I was locked up I've had that done also but it's it's all about keeping the muscles loose yeah good posture you know Kelly started wrote a book you had him on on this show yeah he's really amazing guy he's great he really changed my life honestly I'm time reading his books up a leopard I know my everybody who knows me follows

06:37me they don't always talk about this book you know he said something so important he said look it comes down to two things good alignment and loose muscles you got to keep your body aligned and loose muscles and I just followed those two principles I mean this book is really really excellent and when I saw his when I read his book that's when I reached out to him to work with George because he I don't know ever seen when George does a backflip and he lands his knees always kind of come in together if you see like watch him do a backflip let's call that I was reading his book and I saw that's the valgus fault he calls that the Volquez fault when you when you do a squat and your knees come close to one another and he's like that can cause ACL tears and I'm like I know a guy with two ACL tears and he does that all the time I see him do that all the time it's

07:17something I've always noticed about George he's knees always bow and when we do lifts when we do jumps when we do hurdles I mean ever watch George jump up and down a literally thousands of times and I saw his knees bowing all the time he's like well then I reach out to him I said hey could you help me correct George's there it is that's the vault this vault and he's like sure and ever since then George's knees have been a lot better and we still used to fix it well what he does it's a technical skill it's a skill so he does he has a few different exercises to help you correct it so you put a banner on your knees and you kind of push out on the band but really what we do is we'll make George do a lift or a jump film it send it to Kelly and he'll tell us how aligned we are and what directions to go so he kind of coaches us on how to avoid this fault however really at the end of the day

08:02it's about keeping your knees turned to the outside hmm I used to walk up the stairs and have knees in my pain in my knee you ever have that when you walk upstairs no I just have pain in my knee walking up the stairs and from stairs just from walking up stairs and I didn't know why and then I read his book and he's like look when you walk up a step you got to keep your toe straight and turn your knee out I was like really and I started doing that my pain was gone immediately keep your toe straight straight like toast or yeah and turn your knee out turn your knee to the outside so he says look this is your this is your ACL see this here this is your ACL cross it your seal okay that's a seal you put it in your kneecap that's that's your knee when you turn your knee to the outside look it tightens it up mm-hmm that takes away all the slack so what happens when you're going up the

08:46when you're going up the stairs your your your ACL is just jiggling around and getting sheared and when you tighten it you go up you're secured so you call it call secreting torque he's a brilliant book - brilliant guy so even when you run hills you should do that absolutely should always be aligned whenever your body is under pressure or stress whether you're wrestling or what not you should always have torque so like grab your shirt like this okay grab your shirt okay this is an example in the book excellent example so now grab the the shirt and twist it here great torque now look you have a much more stable grip you know a judoka is always gonna grab the lapels and twist them right so when you grab the bar let's you're gonna do a bench press maybe you know it's not the best exercise or not but the principles still at work when you grab the bar you

09:30should be torquing the bar almost sure when you're doing push ups your hands are on the mat and you're torquing mmm even though your hands are not turning literally you just torquing right when you do that you feel that all the slack is eating up there's no more slack there's no more trampoline effect you know there's no more jiggling everything's tight the system is tight and it's very very important that the system be tight and that the weight be on the muscles hmm so if you're properly aligned when you're doing a maneuver the weight is on the bone not on the tendons so if you put your put your weight like this on your fingers you'll see that the bone is carrying the way if you bend if you bend your bones here look if your unaligned and you start putting pressure now you see your muscles over time so when I'm carrying weight I need to I need to have it on my bones and or my

10:14muscles never on the tendons and ligaments they say that with backpackers you know what backpackers do they they keep their legs as stiff as possible and they take short like sort of short steps like guys who are Mountaineer guys they don't take like big high steps they kind of keep their legs stiff and they walk with their skeleton right if you know what their scales see me I'm sitting on this chair this chair has no muscles but it's holding me up because of the structure structures the type of strength so if you take an egg and you try to squeeze it in a certain way you can't break it you know you ever seen that experiment why because you're actually trying to crush a cylinder to crush a similar that takes a tremendous amount of force however to break a stick in half takes a very little amount of force why and I was a lot to do with the structure if you're trying to compress

10:59matter on itself it won't it won't take a tremendous amount of force to do that jimena must tremendous amount of power however if you want to separate the the material by bending it at the middle is very easy but to compress it the compress material on itself it takes will take a tremendous amount energy right so anytime you're going outside of your alignment using things to compress yeah that's why it makes so much sense to keep your legs straight when you're hiking it's like a horse that sleeps right he's sleeping if he aligns his legs perfectly straight he's using structure to hold him up instead of muscular strength so I mean I remember yeah you had him on the show and you guys had a very interesting conversation and he was talking about front squatting will make you have a great guard but I think you guys miss misunderstood each other actually because you were like now

11:45front squatting has nothing to have a great garden right and I agree with both of you but I think you guys were not talking about the exact same thing he's talking about having the mobility to squat down really low mm-hmm in the front squat will help you regard not necessarily having a big lift but not necessary hundred pounds in the front squats gonna make you a great garden player that that's irrelevant he would I think what he was talking about was have incredible mobility in your hips you ever see a child pick up something off the floor like a newborn baby he's gonna get into this perfect perfect squat well if you if you look at guard players the best guard players always have incredible flexibility in their hips right because I always tell people the higher you can bring your hips to your chest the harder it is for me to pass your guard like if you're one of

12:25those guys where your knees like this you know you're trying to regard and your knees thus far it's the space for me to pass your guard is huge giant yeah but if you can bring this foot behind your head and your hims it's the window the space that I need to cross to get to SCI control is so small yeah he has excuse me one of his students named Shawn Bollinger and he has crying I've seen it I've seen him it's crazy yeah he do double Lotus oh yeah and literally take his legs and put him behind his head yeah I mean you can just pull his legs back how many how many great guard players have you seen who can do that so I'm like like Orion Hall for instance and I'm yeah Keenan I mean they have this flexibility to them passing the guards becomes very it's almost impossible almost impossible it's like they just spin a little bit and you're back in something again and

13:10you're tied up and then you add in leg locks and you're kind of anxiety's they're as they're spinning to your leg while you're trying to pass their guard and yeah the hip flexibility is so paramount in jiu-jitsu mm-hmm for bottom game especially and it's so devastating when you have a hip injury hip injuries and you know I know guys who have had hip replacements and it's like boy you know then you're you're so severely limited in what you can do afterwards you got to never let it get there in my opinion according to Kelly he says your joints can last you 120 years like if you take care of them he there's 2% catastrophe meaning you got hit by a bus okay that's something we can we can't do anything about 98% of the time is because you didn't take care of your joints you haven't you haven't properly used them and you let muscles get tight for too long over a long period of time

13:55so for me personally I feel like when I was 20 I feel better now than when I was 25 is that 25 I was really beat up 26 27 I was really like hey my knees my back my neck you know training every day twice a day it was grueling but after I went through that system I came back out fresh and now I never have a little tweak or anything like that I take care of it immediately I kill it I don't let any tweak creep up go go any further right and I feel much more energy like when I when I keep that the body healthy and loose I feel a lot more energy I feel better my mood is better that's it's the balance between being tough and and you know being mentally strong enough to like push through training when you're you know you're not feeling your best and knowing that you're up your vehicle you know knowing that you're up your body very true very true there's about it's hard

14:42for fighters in particular because they want to be tough you know so you got some weird little thing in your leg like whatever I'm just gonna work through it and just work and you say I'm just gonna go light that which is hilarious people who say they're gonna go light you go light and then you get tagged and then you want to get someone value the next thing you know you're not going light yeah and then that thing in your leg it's all up and then next thing you know you go to a doctor do you have an MCL tear yeah and then without tightness that's it gets worse after after 48 hours you have do MS delayed onset muscle soreness and then you're in the shower you turn your neck boom something pops yeah yeah what do you do in terms of D takes or cumin or ku-ku-ku-ku Menem that's how I write curcumin in turmeric some anti-inflammatory you know herbs and things along those lines um I

15:29know that there was Rhonda Patrick just put something up about I think you see I think he called curcumin in sir cumin and curcumin anyway it's tumeric it's the active ingredient in tumeric and she just put something up on her Twitter page a couple of days ago about how important this stuff is and to make sure that you have bioavailable it improves memory and mood as well well I'll have to try too haven't tried it yeah it's just too Marik it's and yeah and that stuff is fantastic for inflammation people that have soreness and you know like nagging injuries and nagging inflammation having that as a part of your daily diet is fantastic along with fish oil fish oils really good for that you know of course and then watching your diet and making sure you're low in inflammatory foods like sugar and alcohol and really it's amazing how much of a difference it

16:23makes you if you have any sort of back injury inflammation I talked to this lady was a therapist a few years back and she was saying you know you should really try going gluten-free if you have issues with your with your back I was like listen this wacky all those things like oh she's talking woowoo with crystals nonsense and I was like wait a minute really gluten she's like you'd be amazed at how many people when in now that I've thought about it more and with all I know talking to various nutritionists and actual clinical researchers I think it's as much gluten as it is just just sugar refined carbohydrates and refined carbohydrates and sugars and all these different things just create inflammation there's just no way around it especially the levels that normal Americans eat a man oh boy you know you're talking about we're the worst yeah it's it's tremendous amount of

17:17sugar yeah like you you don't know it until you get off sugar mm-hmm and then you go see everybody who's eating the standard amount of sugar and you're like it blows your mind yeah you don't need that much sugar there's no way it's just way too much and you feel sick eating that much sugar again like it's just it's mind-boggling like a jug of Gatorade the love drink after practice I couldn't get that down since I mean have you ever seen those they have those things they show you on online they have like this is the amount of sugar that's in a can of coke this is the amount of sugar that's in a 24 ounce bottle of Gatorade it's is it credit he's incredible pile of sugar it's unbelievable it's like a fistful of sugar but it's addictive yeah I guess the customer coming back yeah that's the customer coming back you need that next sugar how you need a more sugar the next

18:02time I'm eating another dose of sugar and then I think I think your sugar should get it from Whole Foods mostly you know it gets released in your system naturally slowly yeah there it is right there look at that one big gulp is like a it's like a kilo Wow looks like like you bring a coke across the border that's just poisonous it's amazing it's that's so much wrong it's impressive what does it say 17 grams what does it say Jamie 30 17 table area 270 sequence 32 two tables for that this is 18 tables sometimes of milk Wow chocolate milks supposed to be good after you train those white milk well maybe that's old news I don't know George used to do that yeah Georgie says that but I'll tell you something George is a freak of nature when it comes to diet yeah yeah well he's very blessed yeah I think I think this look this is just my observation but I think some

19:00people when they eat carbs they spike they're insolent okay and they can get fat off if they eat too much carbs and some people eat a tremendous amount of carbs and they never get fat and we've all had we all have a friend who eats a lot of junk food is ripped they're not all there not many in the in the world okay but they exist yeah you've all we've all met a person like that George is one of those guys like if we eat to McDonald's for a week or he eats vegetables for a week it doesn't matter he's gonna be lean either way now he'll be leaner on vegetables but even on McDonald's he's gonna be lean he's never been fat in his entire career his entire life I should say so I he get a little heavier when he stopped training look because he took some photos full UFC he looked a little heavier bulky out there do you would you say that he's chubby no no I've no I saw

19:45him at the beach I would be like this guy's shredded guys Jackson guys Jackson when it's George you hold them to the highest of standards you know if I ate the way he eats I would be fat why I spelled that way how many people told me here I've been hanging out with George for a week I got fat again yeah that's George man that's George don't eat like he eats you won't it won't work and he has his whole theories and philosophies all about why he's lean it's like dude no you're just you're just born this way you he doesn't get it I feel like I've trained thousands of people okay he's trained himself like he thinks that way he did what he did is gonna work for everyone and I loved her just super intelligent guy but I thought her the weight like he's very gifted when it comes to food and he does a lot of things like now he's doing a lot of fasting and he's getting even leaner

20:26yeah but it would be a long time for George's fat you see that there's this there's various body types you know you do you have ectomorph mesomorph endomorph and we're we're on the continuum of these three George is on the ectomorph side and in a strong sign of ectomorph is a small waist and George has a mezzo morph no mezzo morte is because he's very muscular he is I would say happy to more up to more models but he sorry yeah go ahead George was very skinny and scrawny when he was young so he went crazy on the weights he turned his weakness into a strength he did so much weight weight training and and and exercise because he wanted to bulk up so he's a bulk ectomorph now he's not a perfect combo he's not a hundred percent octomore I would say is between ectomorph and mesomorph mmm but endomorph the the other end of the spectrum you eat a little bit of

21:13carbohydrates you get fat you lift a little bit of muscles your muscles explode and then inside George wasn't like that George is like a bit on the other side of the spectrum so a real mesomorph would be like Melvin Manhoef yeah like that you know like Jack I think I'm kind of no no that's more endomorph no and amorphous fat yeah but you could also be very muscular anymore yeah you could be very muscular I thought and amorphous like like people that have a really hard time not being overweight you can gain fat and and muscle really quickly as an Endon yeah but ectomorphs from what I've read I might be wrong hmm neither one of us biologists exactly I always thought ectomorph was really skinny and amorphous was they tend to lean towards being overweight and then mesomorph was someone who's like really like a Francis and gone oh not super my or brock lesnar

22:02like super muscular thick like just look they like naturally would pack a lot of muncher I'm sure you could pull up a chart if you can't all these pictures just show both of someone from what I've read see the mesomorph is kind of in the middle ectomorph is a lean and heart pack on muscle ectomorph Luke's like a skinny dork and mesomorph looks like you super jacked and endomorphic looks like well end emergency but endomorph does not look fat in that picture it doesn't have to be five that's at sea now here here's let me tell you something ladies go for it you look at those three pictures uh-huh I go with endomorph all exactly those three pictures we love the other work if that's what an end morph is let's take that in the more yeah because them acting marks they need a lot of naps and they're always tired and those metamorphic egos my they want to choke you the mess marks always want to

22:49strangle you but uh endomorphs that's a woman gun you can have a rift endomorph anybody could be ripped mmm that's a guy's an endomorphs Pratt maybe think about it in the morph is like a short stocky Hulk surely fat right and he could also be packed with muscle like Kelvin Kelvin Gastelum Kevin Gosselin he would put him on the Endemol yeah the more sight yes definitely cuz he's never really totally ripped well Dolce when he had him and he was getting him down to a real 170 he he really had them pretty ripped at one point in time just really low I think you can get ripped it's just not as easy to get there mm-hmm anybody can get ripped but an ectomorph so think about a basketball player okay one of the signs they say is small waist the waist and shoulders are quite similar now George has a V going you know his very broad shoulders which is great he's perfectly

23:40built for fighting that allows him for reach and his double leg cuz he's got incredible like the second he's wearing shoulder pads almost and you know he's blessed with many many genetic gifts for fighting no doubt about it and endomorphs are naturally pre-decisional morphs are naturally predisposed to endurance sports so you'll see a lot of marathon runners or whatnot they're tall and lanky they're not short bulky you know mike tyson type look athletes that's a real mesomorph that's a real that's what i would say endomorph anymore he's he's so short short and stocky and bulky he could put on a lot of muss or a lot of fat not ask you is he a little bit I don't want I don't want to say he's fat but he's put on some fat since he's retired or whatnot right I don't know how much it works out anymore exactly but an ectomorph even when they stop working out they're still they're less likely to

24:28pack on fire I have a little belly you know but it's not as as pronounced it's not as pronounced as an endo more of an M more 4-pack on fat and muscle real quickly and they're they're more they're more they gravitate more towards power sports so they can explode but they'll have less cardio whereas the ectomorph is like you see a lot of running backs they're short stocky and endomorph man they have to explode for 3-4 seconds is there a best body for fighting or is there you just adapt your style to whatever body you exactly I think there's the best body for basketball the best body for football well it depends what position you're playing but fighting everybody has an a fight in their DNA so all styles excuse me all body types can fight and that's what's so amazing you get it you get a Paul Harris he's a endomorph man but he found a way to fight that make sense for him

25:19that's why I always tell people you gotta fight according to your your body type and people think that's crazy no Muhammad Ali fought a certain way because he has certain attributes he had certain he had certain a certain personality even your personalities were important if he tried to fight like Tyson it would backfire if Tyson tried to fight like Muhammad Ali it would backfire I think everybody has to start with the basics and then after three four years of training even maybe up to five years now you got to specialize for what your temperament is what your body type is how what your personality is because not everybody wants to get it done in round one and not everybody is the type of person who's gonna take it to the cards and not everybody has a reach and speed to jab in and out think I'm just gonna jab in and out like Ali do do you have the attributes that Ali

26:03has he was born with certain attributes and everybody's born with an attribute for fighting in my opinion everybody got this far because they can fight nobody got here this far without having some innate ability to fight you know to defend themselves mhm so all our body types can defend themselves but you have to discover how what what works best for that body type right what Tyson is a perfect example exactly they thought you could make it in the pros she killed in the ROS Brian there's never been a short guy when when Ali was dancing around people like no that's not gonna work he's gonna get tired he goes through the heavy weights where every wait shouldn't bounce around and a leash to spar a lot with lightweights he spar six rounds with lightweights than six rounds with a heavyweight why because he would play tag with the lightweight just about speed and movement you move twice as

26:48much with a lightweight what is your thoughts on on hearts bar because when you see the Thais in the way they spar there's some there's a great benefit in that and there's a great benefit in that barely hitting each other I do that I do tremendous amount of that you know one thing when people spar with me they're like man you move so like you know people like it's so seamless the way you move and I I do thousands of hours of live rolling and sparring but a lot of those hours I would say 80% of them is very light because I know the terrain I just want to go through the sequences as many times as I can and when I'm really really warmed up then I'll go hard you know I'll start talking smack a bit in the gym and all right let's see what you got I'll I'll tell the guy when it's time to go really hard mm-hmm and we're having fun with it you know for me having fun is really really

27:32important now that's training for longevity but if you have a fight I think you need to do six weeks of hard sparring why because the speed of the fight is very particular we need to get to fight speed the actual speed of the fight because you might get caught sleeping if you if you haven't done that now if you have a tremendous amount of fight experience you don't you need the less of that so for instance the Thai who's been fighting since he's eight years old he can tune up just on the pads and go fight why he's been doing it since the day he can he can walk you know almost like you look at him a whether I can get me weather ready with just a little bit work put him in there he's gonna be the world champion why it's it's hardwired if you look at a baby's brain the baby's brain is not wrinkled like a hit like an adult's brain it's wrinkled to us of small degree as he goes through his

28:18experiences especially in the first three years of his life his brain literally gets hardwired and wrinkled and it gets less and less wrinkled over time and when you're hardwired to do something you the likelihood of you needing to tune up is very it's very minimal like for instance I remember looking at the biography of Mayweather and he was saying when he would go to picnics with his family his father would bring boxing gloves and he would box with his cousins they literally would be punching each other for him you know he's he's been doing it so long the more experienced you are the less heart sparring you need hmm the more seasoned you are the less heart sparring you need you know what fighting is you just need a little tune-up at the end so if you look at George George is a great example he's super skilled and he's super healthy some guys get to the

29:03high skill level but they're broken up their body is broken their knee is broken they can bare their belly have three four fights left in them Brian do you want to get really really good and then be broken when you when you got there you finally you know you've been cultivating these skills for 15 years you get there you get those skills that you wanted oh I can't use them why my the machine is broken you know I'm I'm 38 I feel like I when I was 20 personally because I spar 80% of my sparring is very flow and relaxed like I used a lot of I trained a lot with purple belts blue belt some purple balls why because they can hurt me if they tried I just toy with them until I'm warmed up I'm flowing I'm not really working harms flowing I'm just doing my combinations mm-hmm and then when I really want to have a good challenge I'll take one of them i elite guys one

29:45of my pros and I'll do one or two rounds with them you know I won't burn my machine out you know imagine driving your car in the red line all the time yeah yeah now that's a great way of looking at it when when you guys get ready for a fight like say if you get George ready for a fight how much time do you spend on working on his recovery from the workouts like like do you bust out the timtam machine and ice things down like how aware of you are we are you guys of like DeVargas a regimented program of how to recover from exercise yeah recovery is everything so it's it's stress plus recovery equals adaptation stress plus stress equals D training in injury yeah a good trainer a good trainer he understands super compensation right you have stress you have recovery and then you have a new level of skill or ability if you don't go through the recovery phase you will not reap the rewards of

30:41your training there has to be a recovery phase not every athlete has a level of recovery that they can they can achieve so as you get as you get more experienced as an athlete your body can as you become as your as your more and more fit I should say your body can recover from more so I have to gauge how good mice my student is it has to be challenging but manageable if I make it too challenging I'm redlining him he's gonna break he's gonna pop he's gonna be unmotivated if it's too easy he's gonna be bored I have to find the right amount of stimulus so when I'm in the practice room if I see George is just modeling guys and destroying them I have to make it I have to scale the workout so that it's harder but I don't want to scale it so high is that I injure him and break him or that he made it out of practice by a hair and he's not motivated to do another camp you know we reach those

31:30high intensity levels periodically throughout the year and they have to be done in a certain way that it's fun like you know George was like you know he was on your show and he was saying I'll try to kill him in the practice room now I sure he's right but I do it so rarely I do it so periodically and I make it a joke that's why I like what he was trying to say is I brought in the guys in the room and I was watching him spar with George and they don't want to touch his face this one he was like a megastar like he was the champ and nobody wants to try to double like him nobody wants to try to hurt him because they're like am I gonna come here in his house and try to show him if there's a respect thing there's a there's a they're starstruck you know these young kids so I'll bring them in and I'd be like listen guys I'll give a speech the first guy to double leg him the first guy to

32:14put him out I would put like a $5,000 reward I think knock him out don't know her if you can October July give you 5,000 bucks George on his back if you put George on his back if you take him down put him on his back I'll stop the whole practice and praise you for 20 minutes in front of everybody in the gym and and students don't get praised by me very often so George would be like oh they're coming after me and he would get riled up and I would do this periodically rarely right world class world title fight you know stuffs on the line and I need these guys to actually show me where George is missing something because when you have this perfect practice and you win all the time mm-hmm what do you work on well nothing went wrong there's nothing to fix so I mean there are times where we really redline him have you ever had anybody knock him out and practice late that money now

33:02he's been dropped once in practice pretty badly and it's a funny story but the money wasn't on the line that time right so one time he got dropped in practice and I wanted to stop the I want to pull the plug it was for a world title fight he was fighting that hardy two weeks before his fight I was sure he was concussed and I said George I'm pulling the other round it was one more round he said to me coach let me finish the round I'm okay let me finish the next round and I felt that if I pulled in me I would have killed his confidence right I would have killed his confidence totally so I said okay you could do the next round and I told the other guy he was sparring with don't line a single glove like I whispered it to him not a single glove on him just take a mauling and George went in the next round not knowing that the other guy's not allowed to hit him at all

33:50and he just crushes the guy right he's mauled him and gets that and I was really really grateful for that guy like I was a pro and I was very very grateful they you know he took the beating that we asked him to write and George after was like man I I know I know it went bad in round four but round five was amazing I was a fire rougher than you were you were you were he's like wow that was Ron for wasn't it was just a fluke you know like this this is this is not what I'm gonna look like round five you know I'm like yeah it's like and it's good thing it's Friday you know because I have the day off tomorrow Mike George today's Saturday I'm shocked it was like today's Saturday I'm like yeah and and the UFC was there filming so I had to like look guys that footage could never air you know that foot has got to disappear you know they're looking at don't worry you know we understand the

34:37fights on the line he was fighting they're hairy two weeks later yeah that's why that fight he was doing a lot of wrestling because we didn't want to like even chance I was sure he had a concussion when he went in that fight well now pulling the plug on that fight a lot of people be like hey you put his like you put his health on the line you're right but it's so much pressure I first of all George didn't has nothing to it UFC we kept it from UFC like we told them like we told the camera guys bury this like don't report it like George would never want to back out of that fight it was two weeks from now everybody's coming to watch this fight like this this fight you know it's been it's been on what he called the prime time it's been like three weeks they're filming you know like this is happening this fight is happening no matter what you know the Georges in that mindset and

35:16but he went there honestly like you know after he got dropped pretty badly yeah that's you know Forrest Griffin got knocked out twice before his fight with Anderson so twice and apparently one of them was real bad really yeah yes I think he was sparring with Wanderlei and apparently you don't spar with Vandelay no it's just fights yeah I mean he's old-school shoot the box especially back then oh my god yeah Forrest won't really talk about too much because he you know he doesn't want to be perceived as an excuse but he I mean how many times the fighters done that many many fighters has done that countless yeah to the point where like I just let the fight at the site no unless I really feel like it's it's urgent which is rare that I've actually had to intervene because at the end of the day when are you 100% it really rarely happens there's always something Brian

36:09but the thing about getting knocked out is that if you get knocked out two weeks ago your odds of getting knocked out are significantly higher you know I know man it's it's it's crazy and Dan Hardy is a really good strike oh my god that left hook if it would've touched George George would have been out like a light he's got a crazy left hook Plus George was hurt two weeks before yeah thank God I worked out well yeah I worked out great yeah it's the balancing act of being a trainer it's not something that I envy no it's tough stuff because I care for these guys honestly yeah nothing to do with the business for the money I couldn't care less like I could not care less but I know that that guy he's on a one-way track so if I'm telling him no hit the brakes and he's saying we're going that that break in harmony he's gonna create a friction and create a doubt in the

36:58fighter Ryan oh you are you all in are you all in you know because if you're not all in you're gonna scare your fighter right there's that to consider as well yeah when you look at the crop of up-and-coming talent I mean this is such a crazy time for MMA I think when you look at these new guys like za beat is one of my favorite guys to watch because he's this this new crop of guys that can do everything and they're they're so high level by the time you see them like the first fight I saw of the beat in inside the Octagon oh you know I've seen him on video before but I'm alive alert holy is amazing but he's not just amazing it's like this is this is this next level like there's another level like we've seen these these elite fighters and everyone's great at jujitsu everyone's got great takedown defense everyone knows how to strike but then you're seeing this new

37:53flavor this like this ok the frequency is now higher and it just seems to me that every year or so there's these new guys that jump through and you're going ok well now the frequency is quite a bit higher than it was before it's seamless you know transitions are more and more seamless mmm which is amazing yes I just you're saying they're processing it faster yeah and as they're doing the takedown like dimitra's flowing into an armbar takedown is even finish yeah and you're like the next generation is watching that mm-hmm and they've adopted that now yeah so they're gonna flow into a transition into an are like it's getting it's getting more and more seamless their computers are computing faster and faster information yeah they're thinking what they're gonna do on the ground before it hits the ground it's soon it is incredible and they know what can be done now they've seen it all

38:40possibility yeah so they have this database in their mind of accomplishments that have already been achieved if the other fighters yeah I've been awakened yeah it's crazy man when you stop to think about when you first got involved in the sport and then look at the level the fighters right now there's not really a commensurate sport in terms of like modern mainstream sports where you've people have achieved such an incredibly high level of proficiency that so far exceeds where it was a decade ago or two decades ago it's really no no no Harrison the growth rate is ridiculous it's is amazing and I don't think it's a coincidence that the growth rate in this sport is incredible and this is the sport that has the most amount of variables in terms of combat sports the most amount of variables in terms of what what a fighter can do to you there are more ways to win than any other

39:31combat sport obviously yeah and that's why I find it's see the more you limit us an athlete the more it's about torque so for instance if you look at sprinting if I were to race hüseyin bolt and I had all the best trainers the best sprint coaches and Husayn both had the most mediocre mediocre sprint coaches and we race when we're both 20 years old in our prime who's gonna win you appreciate that question right he's gonna win it for sure put us in MMA we were the same way class same height everything is the same I have the best coaches he has the worst coaches who's gonna win you're gonna him out I'm gonna kill him yeah because coaching now is has a greater influence you know sprinters say sprint coaches say we can make you faster we cannot make you fast you have to be born fast we could shave off a few milliseconds yeah in MMA we can make you I could take a regular Joe

40:27and get them all the way up to UFC I can't make him UFC champion I won't say I can make him UFC champion to be UFC champion you need a talent right okay there's a there's a there's a talent er to be in the 1% but to get you to UFC because there are so many possibilities there are so many ways to trick your opponent or so many ways to turn the tables on him mm-hmm the tork no longer matters or torque is less significant so if we're talking about football where I'm only a lot to do these certain maneuvers trickery is put to the side you're not allowed to trick me but in MMA you're allowed to trick me any which way you want there are very few little rules okay but outside of these these barred rules is barred maneuvers you can trick me any which way you want so what happens is you take your opponent to a maze you take your opponent into a world where torque doesn't matter so much and that's

41:13why the more restrictive of sport is let's say for instance boxing boxing is more restrictive than my tie so the guys would torque we're gonna do better in boxing than they will necessarily in Muay Thai cuz in what I can use more trickery and I could be a little dweeb and just beat you with clinching or I could beat you with a trick kick or I could beat you with a back a back kick my friends is a back kick anybody can generate knockout power with a back kick however with a right cross or a left hook not everybody's gonna have that bone-crushing power however if you teach somebody how to throw a proper backache which you know cuz you got the best back kick in the game you could teach a regular Joe in a few years how to generate knockout power so now he has that element on the table so because MMA is so you know there's so few rules we have a greater environment for the intellect to

42:02Shyne mmm you said something once to one of your fighters in between rounds and they really stood out you said I want you to overwhelm his mind with possibilities like you're overwhelming him you're making him think about all the potential variables that are coming his way right like that is a great way to put it and we talk about variety so everybody is looking for a pattern if I do a jab jab cross and I do it three four times the fourth time you're gonna see it it's gonna be slower to you why because your body is gonna your brain is again this is all hypothetical this is just my personal experience I'm basing this on my own personal experience when somebody does something to me a second or third time I see it personally I feel like I'm perceiving it slower and I have a window to counter you however when I spar with George George is the trickiest guy I'll tell you why because he has so

42:51many tricks he has so many attacks that he barely rarely ever shows you the same trick twice and he's the master at adapting so if you do a trick on him once and you tried again he's gonna shut you down look at all his rematches when he rematch BJ Penn when he much Matt Hughes every time the rematch was progressively worse the third time he fought my Hughes was even easier don't try the same trick on George twice you're gonna get crushed and I think that's why Mia as a martial arts I developed like a lot of variety of skill because every week I'd have to come up with a new trick or George you're gonna shut that down and so after ten years I'd be started becoming like a trickster you know what other magic trick can I get away with one time yes next week I needed a new trick because it won't work on him again he's gonna get wise to it he's a master at that it might work once

43:35on him the second time you're gonna get shut down well I feel like that was a factor in Dominick Cruz losing to Cody Garber exactly because those alpha-male guys had seen that track so many times like okay we can like apparently Justin Buckholtz can imitate dominoes and training like a weird herky-jerky exact with the hands down exactly he's a weird one man he's one of the weird at all the fighters I've ever watched fight Dominic might be the weirdest I agree cuz you look at him and East first of all he's such a he's a great guy very smart guy but he's crazy and in the weird way it's like one of the things that he says like I'm just not very flexible what do you say why are you even saying that like that doesn't make any sense to me like why not get more flexible it's like it's not like saying like oh I'm too short well you can't throw so you're locked you know you're never gonna play

44:28basketball mmm saying I'm not flexible enough easy fix that's the dumbest thing to ever say it's like I mean it's so it's so much more dumb then I'm not strong enough well if you gained weight from muscle you might not be in that weight class anymore you got a real problem there but I'm not flexible enough you got zero problem you just have to stretch yeah but he doesn't stretch right we were talking about jujitsu techniques it's like I can't play that hard guard guard a high guard I don't have any flexibility in my own car what are you saying like that doesn't make any sense and like head kicks and things along those lines he's like very stiff in his legs with throwing kicks like that's that easy fix yes an easy fix why wouldn't you fix that mmm that's a good question but but also the mindset of a champion in this same guy who just just I'm not flexible I don't

45:22even understand how those things live together in the same mind if I was trading him I would make him head kick like that's what I would insist on have to be there because he doesn't knock guys out with his head so he the head kick has to always be a possibility always a threat and then you will knock out guys with your hands because they'll have their high guard up because they don't want that kick and then uppercut will come the body shot will come the back kick okay I'll make a backache for sure like if you don't have power in your hands you need to back kick you need to head kick those are two weapons it can always knock a guy out hmm so you don't back kick you don't head kick you never score knockouts right yeah that's a good point man it's a when did you see this Steven Thompson thing with Darren toe where he wants them to outlaw that side kick to the knee no I didn't see that

46:02well apparently his knee got really up in the dare until fight you know woody what do you think about that so bleak to the knee that everyone's doing not even the oblique kick just a front leg side kick to the knee the same way Yoel Romero used it Robert Whittaker up his knee in the first fight right and then Whitaker used it on Romero like right away because that can fight beautifully up his name I think it's a legitimate kick yeah it's a 100% kick it allows the smaller weaker guy to hurt the bigger stronger guy well in the case of dare until it allows the bigger stronger guys yes the other if it works for the smaller guy who works for the bigger guy yeah right it's legit it's I think so too it's a legit technique utila pair for yeah exactly you're standing in a way that you want and sideways mm-hmm they're harder to punch they're easier to kick so you're

46:51saying look I want to stand in this way where I'm harder to punch but I don't want you to kick me mm-hmm so if I stand square I'm more susceptible to back kick more susceptible to punches but less susceptible to leg kicks or the oblique kick or the side kick to the knee or whatnot mm-hmm now I'm not saying to you don't punch me because I'm more vulnerable this way so whatever your vulnerability is you chose that vulnerability by standing sideways why don't I stand sideways because they know they're gonna get chopped to the leg right there homies fighting good kickers they're always fighting amazing kickers when you go to Thailand the guy may be a good puncher but he's for sure a great kicker like you're not gonna run into a guy who doesn't know how to kick they all know how to kick knee and elbow and some of them know how to punch really really well also so they stand in

47:34a way mota has developed in a way that's very anti kick Antony anti elbow and it's not as defensive to the punches so if I want to stand if I want to avoid punches I'll stand more blade it let's say I'm fighting out like a BJ Penn who's very heavy-handed and more of a puncher he doesn't kick much well I'm gonna stand bladed like you see what George we made him drop one hand why so he can use his jab from from down to up right because it's faster has a greater reach and it's harder to counter whereas if you would have stood more Square and MoIT I would have been useless because Vijay doesn't kick mm-hmm but then you'd be more open to punches right so the way you're standing the way I wonder boy standing that the antagonists too that the dad - Doh - that is that a kick so how could you stand that way just switch the way you're standing and now it okay now you

48:18you're more open to punches but that's adaptation that's what fighting is about yeah it's rock-paper-scissors if I use rock I don't I don't outlaw paper I don't say everybody hey nobody loves to use paper no but that's that - go - what you're doing yeah and when the ties fight they have that very light front leg wouldn't prevent that front leg side kick to the knee because they're always like very light so if you kick their knee there it's just gonna go backwards and to stand that way they're standing that way at a cost yes punches and also the cost they don't have the ability to use that movement that flattering front leg movement the way that wonderboy does - wonderboy is the master of the front leg like he's the best at standing completely sidekick the when he fought Johny Hendricks good example he threw a side kick to the body Hendricks stood there and then he went

49:04to roundhouse kick my face with the same Lester piece and and Hendricks he could see was like like what is this guy doing yeah there's like foam okay back oh like he thought like yeah you got me with that but that's not a big deal and then pop he gets roundhouse kicked in the face that was a masterful performance yeah yeah it was one of his best for sure he's incredible what just shows you the difference between a guy who is you know just trying to like kind of plot in with the limited movement and a guy like wonder boy who's just one of the most difficult guys to sort of pin down yeah incredible yeah his style is very unique and I'm fascinated with him and I'm really fascinated right now with Michael venom page been watching do you see his pro boxing fights no I didn't see right now he's a catch I saw one yeah he's a can crusher he's fighting these guys then

49:52they're setting him up for these yeah spectacular knockouts right but it's still that blitz point karate style that Raymond Daniels has a lot of these guys having Raymond's obviously adapted very well for kickboxing I've trained with Raymond quite a bit he's a beast you gotta get him on the show when he says welcome to yeah I have to connect you - okay he's amazing yeah we talked a little bit in the past about perhaps doing something on Twitter he knocks guys out in about 90 seconds on a regular basis and how does he do it he does it with the back kick he's the master at finding a place for the back kick you don't want to get hit with his back kick like I know you got an incredible back kick I bet you some more powerful than his okay but I'll tell you one thing he will fit that back kick everywhere everywhere and I'll do it in a way you won't see it coming and it's

50:38gonna hurt so much more yeah he rarely knocks guys out with his hands he does surprise guys with his hands every so often but that back kick you don't want to be there well he seems like he's getting better with his hands yes yes hands are improving but he trains a lot yeah a lot that guy I'm sure I mean he's he's still at it and he's what 35 36 now and say around there that one was it what's his name um bang is that the guy he knocked out with that touch front leg side kick and then the spinning back kick to the face unbelievable he just jumps up top pop the second kick yeah that's a standard kick it is you know for for Raymond Danny he doesn't the best I've ever seen personally no no one better you know we got to go back to like Rick the jet Rufus um you know when he fought that that really classic fight where he fought that Thai fighter and got his legs chopped down and everybody

51:28was like oh people really got to understand the Muay Thai Muay Thai but he hit that guy at that same kick that front leg side kick him and spun in the air and hitting with the turning side kick in the face yeah yeah man that's I love watching that point karate style that blitz style I love it I love watching that enter into MMA because I used to spar with a lot of those guys and it's hard to deal with those guys that are really good at that that that fast sprint out you blitz and when you do that and then you also have takedown defense and Muay Thai skills and Jiu Jitsu is like man that's a that's a lethal skill to have mmm I love I love doing boxing Muay Thai karate Taekwondo I love I love blending at all I believe all of yours right here come on man this is crazy the way does it - he just hops up touches you with the front leg pains and the second one and look he looks down like

52:24he's in a video game I mean that is crazy that this guy is pulling that off that was when he was in glory look at this tap oh come on man who a does that he does that all the time that's not like a one-off no no he could do that all day yeah I mean there's a lot of those karate guys that have that skill set they can do it like you know those breaking demonstrations with their hold up pads don't do 360 wheel kicks and brake pads and I mean there's there's some legitimate karate and traditional martial arts techniques that are finding their way in MMA absolutely just have to know to use it yeah and just because a karate guy got beat up by a grappler doesn't mean all the karate he's trained it's not good exactly these laws need to learn how to grapple exactly he's long I stay on his feeding he's learning how to grapple he needs to learn to set that kick up in a way because the thing is if

53:16you're always fighting another karate guy and then you fight a boxer the boxers behavior is just different you have to get you it's like we're saying before you have to get used to it and then all of a sudden you saw the same movie 100 times you know how to deal with it you know it's like your watch the same movie over and over again you start you start predicting what the scene is gonna be you're not caught by surprise when you're caught by surprise you're done right you never done jujitsu before and I'm doing an armbar a basic armbar you're getting caught with it mmm you know that's why I believe you got to know everything out there but you got to specialize don't don't try to master everything mm-hmm know everything like I like to know Darth triangle he'll hook even though I'm not necessarily a dark sky but I want to know everything about Darth I don't want to drill it all day

53:55long I just want to know about it right because when you're trying to put your Darce on I know what you're trying to do I'm familiar with what you're going for I can break out of it you don't go for Darcis I do I do I do but I mean I'm not I wouldn't say it's my best submission I do do Darcis no doubt about well you are you don't have the longest arms exactly yeah exactly every knees neck time yes I don't use them that much but I'm familiar that's the solution for guys who don't have long arms short arms too but the Japanese necktie became a specialist at that we really yeah you get that clamp over the top of the neck and then you drop down with the left shoulder and you tuck the head into the forehead and you hook one of the legs with your ia and crank that neck lung so it's a you're pushing in with your chest and then cranking that it's it sounds

54:39right it comes from - it's a nasty nasty neck crank mmm I love it it's just so good and it's also it's it's there a lot it's one of those techniques that people they're not aware of the danger that that one position you know there's a few guys that are really good at it and you know whenever you feel that arm going underneath your neck you're like I gotta get out of here because it's such an easy one to cinch up oh yeah Doris is hard it's hard to cinch to get all the way up yeah yeah like I remember working with Marcello like I got to trade marcelo garcia and we were doing some one-on-one a training session and he was tell me he doesn't like DARS when I was like he doesn't teach stars doesn't believe in DARS and I'm like but your arms are short you know yes monstrously the wrong guy you won't tell them to do DARS no no don't do DARS it's not good it's not good submission

55:26because your arms in the way I'm like dude there's some guys with the the most devastating darts is like you you don't want to be in their DARS you know Tony the Ferguson exactly he doesn't like leg locks there's no leg locks are not good oh that's so crazy imagine a Paul Harris walks into your gym and you're like no don't do leg lot it's like dude that's his gay but he tapped out Rico Rodriguez with the heel hook right in Abu Dhabi he would tell you was there it's not a good submission it shouldn't have worked oh that's hilarious he was telling me he doesn't like his guys to wrestle I'm like why I'm like when you fought Jake Shields you did a single leg you took him down he's like he shouldn't have fell see Jake Shields shouldn'ta fell he said what I'm like your wrestling is good he's like no I don't know you shouldn't wrestle a wrestler at all what and I was like I

56:05guess I get what you're trying to say but there's a time a place while wrestle a wrestler when I feet you see a good vulnerability yeah and I know he's very I think he's changed over the years but when I was when I rolled with him he was like at the top you know you I wouldn't question him I wouldn't write you know Who am I - Who am I to tell him I don't agree you know like he doesn't like him or he would tell me not only Comoros too much muscle right that's a powerful yes Parimal yeah but when you look at his career all the things he doesn't like he that's what he's been caught with like well you caught him with the DARS Kimura yeah yeah that's what probably O'Connell didn't um who else caught him the DARS brawler caught him once or twice once I think yeah DARS work real good they do like if you have the attributes they're great yeah why would he say he doesn't

56:52decent art that's so crazy I think he's got short arms and you know it doesn't work he doesn't like arm triangle there's no frigate arm triangle what yeah I'm like dude that's the Everest Prince George's arm triangle like triangles are nasty this is destructive well guy like George is such a crusher he's got a long arms and he's heavy oh my heavy puts that weight on you those out of control and I would never let my arm get across my buttocks I know it's over there's two things you never want to give George Kimura because he'll rip your arm off and - dark triangle yeah cathica Tommy yeah there's there's a Raphael Lovato he's he's got a nasty arm trying you know he's competing in Bellator now I'm always fascinated when I see like super super high-level jujitsu guys that enter into MMA because I'm like okay well for sure these guys who are used to just training MMA and trained they're

57:45not gonna know what the hits them when a guy like Roger Gracie grabs him or like a guy like Damien Maya and we've seen it time and time again there's that there's a difference in the level and so the argument is always should you be just what's the best way to be is the best way to be an elite specialist at one particular thing like a Raymond Daniels or a Wonder Boy or is it to be a guy who can kind of do everything really well like George so here is my perspective on that that's such a great question I mean that's the heart of training you could flood your system so that what does that mean when you flood your system you're giving your student too many things to master he's just really not good at anything right or you can bottleneck him you're giving him too few skills that people know what he does like for instance a classical examples Chuck Liddell you went on a tear for a

58:34while but he's still the same guy and after a while the next generation they understood what he does they understood the pockets where you're safe where you're in danger like mashita is a great example early on he was such a mystery now we're like okay we get what he does we've understood his patterns patterns are huge and fighting and in life period human beings are pattern detecting machines whether they know it or not whether they can verbalize it or not we are pattern detecting machines that's why I like sparring a lot because sparring I've had a thousand people throw a right hand at me when you throw your right hand my mind the subconscious is gonna compare that right hand you're throwing to a thousand different right hands I saw and it's gonna see it looks matches this one the most again this is my narrative and this is what I see and this is personally been my experience

59:16right when I train somebody who's new and you throw a punch at them they flinch why they you've overwhelmed them with information but after a while they see a punch and they're relaxed and they see it Nate and it seems slow-motion because at first it was too fast for them it's too much to compute hmm so my students what I do is I give them a small amount of technique and when they get better I give them a new technique so I want them to get a certain level of confidence with that technique and my standard is it has to be instinctual if the technique is instinctual I've taught it to you well meaning if you've done it live on the mat on a regular basis you execute on a regular basis it's not for me not to give you another gem because if I don't give you another gem I'm gonna bottleneck your art you're gonna become too predictable but if I give you a gem too early if I give you another

60:01technique too early I'm flooding your system I'm flooding the your game it's your game is just it's diluted it's just too weak so with George we're always reinventing George for the next fight we're always adding one new or two new gems depending how much time we have but there's always an X Factor when you fight him he's not going to do the same patterns we did the last fight you could watch his tape that's why I told George why is it harder to be champion than to become champion because when you're champion everybody's watching you and studying your patterns it's a matter of time before you're old news so you got to reinvent yourself before the next fight that's why I didn't want him fighting three times a year I told me a fight twice a year and they were making comparative wood truck I got a lot of heat for that they're like Chuck fights three times a year George

60:43should fight three times here we're like we'll see what horror careers go but I want to wish to fight twice a year because to reinvent him takes six months we're gonna do that twice a year that way he'll be champion longer I told me I stopped when he became trami I said I want you to be champion for ten years it happens in boxing is gonna happen to an MMA for the first time there's gonna be a champion for ten years I just found that when when he first won the belt and he was like really how are we gonna do that you're gonna read we're gonna cycle we're gonna do only training camps that last six months you can only really do a training camp every six months if you want to hit a new level it takes six months every fight you're gonna be at a new level and you're gonna do something nobody knows did they haven't seen it before how did you come up with these

61:22numbers what made you decide I read once I read one very influential book called the new power program by Michael Cogan I don't know if you ever heard of it I have heard of the book he says look there's two programs there's either the the he says look if you can do a a training program shorter than six months you're either Superman or you're dumb like a formula in the way he says I never met Superman a real training program is six months long so that just always really influenced me I think his book was really really basic and I was one of the first books I read training and it really influenced me he taught he taught he teaches in the book periodization but he dumps it down really really well so if you read through a purpose book on periodization it's just too much intellectual jargon it's hard for a regular Joe especially at the stage I was then to read that

62:08book and understand what he's trying to say it's like today I can understand it but Michael Cogan made it really simple for me and he's like look if you want to train and reach a new level it takes six months this is the body's natural process so it would be like trying to you know plant the seed and have an apple tree in three months and he says no the apple tree grows at a certain rate so a human body does things at a certain rate there's no way around it you need stress you need recovery then you have adaptation here's the the cycles you have to go through to reach a new level and it ends with a plyometric cycle now today I don't really use that system anymore cos I've found better ways over the years it ends with the plyometric cycle yes why does it end with the choir because you have to hit the speed of your sport so for instance let's say you do a lot of back squatting

62:54okay lets you do back sweating and your numbers on the back squat to go up do you think that's gonna make you a better fighter no no why so why do this quarry excuse it'll make you stronger okay but does it make you stronger on the field in the Octagon it can make you stronger in certain position in certain positions yes now I think Mike Logan would say it can make you stronger in certain positions if you can apply that force over a certain time so power and strength are two different things power strength is can you lift that bar it weighs 500 pounds you can lift it okay good can you get that buyer off the ground and locked out in 1.5 seconds that's the question we want to ask for sports mmm how fast can you apply the force that's power force over times strength over time so when you want to shoot a double leg you have to do it in the window so that's why the plyometric phase is the

63:44last phase is very important that you need to take all that strength you cultivated and translate it to a level of speed so I need George to change level and explode in a fraction of a second so that's why I like things like sprinting track and field etc these are things done in a short period of time the ground contact the ground force reaction the time you spent on the ground applying force into the ground so when you want to apply force on a person have to apply the force on in the ground and then that ground that then that reaction is applied into the interior opponent right so every action has an obvious equal reaction how fast can you apply apply that force into the ground now squatters if I take you and I make you squat a slow squat down and up that I'm training you like a tow truck right then I'd your vertical jump your vertical jump is gonna have gone down

64:29after you've done six months of squatting it's not gonna have gone up why because you're training like a tow truck you're telling your body look I need to lift lots of lots of heavy weights in a slow in a slow fashion however if I make you do plyometrics or I make you do Olympic lifting you know Olympic lifting is very fast it's 1 point 5 second contraction on the hamstring 1.5 second and there's a certain point where it's 0.5 seconds then I make you a test your vertical now your vertical has gone up so there's an element of speed so my Krogan at the end of the program he does a four-week or three-week phase of he calls at the Lynx cycle where you're doing plyometrics is very important that's fascinating I've never heard it put that way and I like that thought I like the thought process behind it I think there's a there's a lot of people that are using a

65:16lot of plyometric drills now and it's way more common when you see like training montages so from you guys hopping over hurdles but I really have to think that George is one of the first guys I ever saw do that stuff yeah I still do you want to train like a tow truck or do you want to train up a Ferrari which one you want to be do you want if you look at Demian Maia he's like a tow truck yeah he's stiff even when he throws a punch she's very stiff yeah why because years of ghee training is like yeah I've trained my body to make an isometric hold and now your body behaves isometrically why are you asking you to do anything different right I never asked my body to do something in practice that I don't want it to do on fight night hmm so I do believe squatting is important squatting is important to develop a general strength so let's say for instance you're always

66:00doing plyometrics while you might have an overuse injury certain muscles are not being activated you go on the squat rack you do a few squats and I believe you gotta do squats not not too heavy about 70% of your max and do it fast you still get all the benefits what about lowering it lowering it how do you lower it fast or do you lower it lower it fastened up fast really yeah so for instance Fred Hatfield he's probably said it best okay he said he's the first man to officially squat a thousand pounds he said look throw a baseball throw a throw a paper you take a paper you crumple it up and you throw it it's too light for it to to go anywhere you throw it really hard because it's so light that doesn't go anywhere take a bowling ball or bowling balls too heavy you throw it doesn't go anywhere you take a baseball that's the right amount of resistance it's the

66:47right amount of weight now you're gonna apply more force on that baseball you're gonna get more force out of it why it's that it's in the Goldilocks range so for instance let's say let's make it really simple okay let's say you weighs zero pounds I put you on a scale you weighed 0 pounds you have a bar on your back the bar weighs 100 pounds okay so we're looking at the scale now the scale says 100 pounds the bar is on your back let's take away your weight just to make it really simple you go down and up the scale is gonna read 101 that's the minimum amount of power you have to put into that that that scale for it to come up so when you go down the scale is gonna say 100 100 as you come up it's gonna say 101 for it to have a positive trajectory you have to apply 101 pounds upwards so sorry downwards and then the reaction will be upwards if I put that

67:37weight on my back if I put 70 pounds if I take 70% of the weight and I go up and down really fast on the scale the scale is gonna read 101 minimum for me to if I explode up really fast it's gonna read 100 100 200 3 now I got the benefits of a maximum contraction let's say 100 pounds was a maximum you can lift but I don't have the weight of a hundred pounds on me mmm you know somebody who who really made this popular is a louis simmons he learned it from the russians mm-hmm you know louis if you had on your show yes he's a brilliant trainer he's fascinating he's a he's a mind - he's out of his mind we interviewed him as in his gym really yeah in Columbus was great he's a genius when it comes to lifting yeah he's a genius he knows what he's talking about man he read super training I also read super training and super training is about lowering the rates to the right amount and doing a

68:30plyometric with it you get the same benefits as using maximum weight but you don't get the side effects the soreness the injury the red lightning you don't get any of that so the Russians found a great way to apply maximum force on a bar but they also get speed they're not training like tow trucks they're training like Ferraris that's actually where I got the term from Lewis Simmons he really like clarified it for me made it really simple so like what kind of like say if you could benchpress 315 pounds what would you use use between 65 to 80 percent of that weight and they're just real quick hmm boom you'll get the same amount of resistance if you do it quickly as if you had maximum weight on it hmm so he doesn't use maximum weight except for once a week and the reason why he explains it is easy says look you have proprioceptors in your system Probie receptors is like it's what tells

69:16you if your arm is up or down if your arm is bent to your chest if you are if I close your eyes and I lift your arm you're like you lifted my arm oh how do you know that proprioceptors he says if you if you put on a Mac let's say let's say you're working with 75 pounds and your maximum is 100 when you go to lift that day and on the competition day when you get a hundred on your bones your body's gonna be like hey I've never felt that amount of weight this ortho kinetic reflex shut the muscles down we've never felt that weight this is the narrative that he gives us he says because you've never felt that weight your body's gonna it's not gonna allow you there's a safety mechanism in your body it says look this is this isn't we're not used to this let's not take a chance and he says if you get your body used to that the ortho kinetic reflex will quiet down

69:57and allow you to lift there's an inner mechanism the safety mechanism in the human body so he says to bypass that we do heavy weights once a week to to to numb that reflex so but the majority of the work is done with light and sorry lighter and fast 75% listen what do you think of like Pavel taught Cellini's principles with strong first principles of the like say if you could do 10 reps of something you don't do 10 you do 5 it's exactly right hundred percent I've read all of the Tetsu Lanza works almost all of them he's brilliant trainer I agree with that a hundred percent outside of competition let's explain it to people yeah ok so yeah let me okay so let's say for instance let's say you know I'm a big believer never being sore you should train and the next day should wake up feeling good okay no why how's that possible well because look if okay that's great that's a good

70:48example let's say let's see your energy levels is talking about fit people by the way right every human being every so guys never worked out before maybe first day first day never how's it possible to worry about and not be sore no problem okay here we go let's say there's something called rate of perceived exertion okay so let's say I make you do pull-ups and let's say the maximum amount of pull-ups you can do the maximum amount of pull is 10 let's keep a nice small number at 11 you couldn't do 11 if I put a pointed a gun at you you couldn't do 11 should I make you do 10 pull-ups on our workout now I'm gonna make you do 5 why because I'm setting you up to work the next day the next day we're gonna do 5 and the next day we're gonna do another 5 and then we're gonna do 6 when six is really easy we're gonna do seven why if you count if you did 10 pull-ups on Monday you're

71:40gonna be sore still Thursday let's it's really your max so Thursday you've only done 10 pull-ups from Monday to Thursday you've only done 10 pull-ups me I've been doing 5 pull-ups every day so I'm at 20 pull-ups already 25 pull-ups mmm I have more volume than you now if you add up at the end of the year who trained more I've trained way more than you so let's say I go to jiu-jitsu practice I'm doing jiu-jitsu every single day 3 rounds 5 days a week that's 15 rounds you go in twice a week but you kill yourself you do 5 rounds each day you kill you push yourself those last two rounds you burn yourself out I still did 15 you're at 10 at the end of the year I've done countless rounds more I may have had so much more training than you so how much training can we pack in in the week that's the real question how much volume can you expose your athlete to so I always tell people look energy

72:29I'm sorry exercise can produce energy so let's say I'm feeling like a 7 out of 10 10 being I'm really like energized 1 I was like a really lethargic feeling like I need to lay down and 7 I'm feeling good ok if I get up and I do a right amount of exercise the right amount I can feel like an 8.5 exercise can give me a tonic effect like drinking this coffee so let's say I just do some jumping jacks I hit the back for a couple of rounds I'm feeling good once you get that high shot it down don't go into the phase where your bodies beat up tight broken up don't red line the body that's only for training camps for a pit for a small period of time why because you get a little bit more from the system but in the long run you get less in the long run you've taxed the system so if you do that regularly by the time you actually get good you'll be broken up mmm that's why I do a lot of

73:20flow training have you ever have you ever heard of me hide check send me high as a flow No okay so you can you Jamie can you look up a flow chart would be so much simpler like just put in flow flow in the workplace or flow chart this is such this is pure genius this guy's pure genius basically he went and he he coined the term flow so like when you're in a state of flow we've all been in a state of flow the number one way to know that you're in a state of flow is time flies by I'm sure sometimes you've done podcasting you like what was it three hours already you know it was it was a great podcast you know the one where you have the worst guest or you're having the worst workout it feels like every minute is an hour that's a that's a bad you're not in a state of flow or the state of flow is you're having the right amount of difficulty but it's not so difficult that you go into stress and

74:04it's not so easy that you're bored it's the right amount of challenge so let's say as simple as playing I like Tetris if I put you on a if I put you on a level that's too high you can be like you're gonna play for five minutes you'd be like I'm done if I put you on a level too easy you're gonna be like this is boring if I put you at the right amount of level you see that that's the flow channel so if the challenge is too high you'll meet anxiety if it's too low your boredom when I go in the practice room I'm trying to create flow I'm having fun that training should be addictive imagine training was addictive everybody would train everybody would be fit but people always go into anxiety they go and they kill their slam their body then I have to convince you to do it again three days later two days later and you're like dude the mental energy is gonna take me to get that right it

74:50shouldn't be it should be training should be a pulling force it should be pulling you you wanna go training if you don't want to go training it's not fun if it's not fun you're not gonna do a lot of it hmm and if you're not gonna do a lot of it you're never gonna reach mastery so how do I make it pleasurable how to make it fun I have to be in a flow state and you can get into a flow state and almost anything but when you're out of that flow state cut it we're gonna get further we're gonna do more training if we cut it today and come back in tomorrow's I'm a big believer in consistency over intensity intensity should be done one and once in a while because by nature intensity can only be done once in a while if you're going hard every day you're not really going hard every day you can't go your max every day there's a there's a there's a cost to going to

75:31your max can you sprint every single day and you cannot sprint every single day it's ludicrous you could split once or twice a week the best sprinters in the world they sprint once or twice a week nobody Sprint's every day because intensity by nature entails that you need to take a break because if you don't need to take a break you didn't really go to your maximum intensity if you lift your maximum lift the maximum amount of reps you can the maximum weights you can lift if you do two reps that wasn't your max because if it was you wouldn't have have a second rep in you mmm you're insane but I would have to give you a break for you have a second rep so we didn't find your true max right intensity maximum effort entails you have to stop because it's the maximum there was no more reserves there are no more research so what do you think about people that that say

76:17there's no such thing as overtraining here's the John dinner our narrative and a dad and he coins it really really well he says look it's under arrest so he says look you couldn't over train if you didn't give your body the rest later yeah but he says look no matter how hard I push in practice if I didn't kill myself I can rest from it and recover and have super compensation I agree with that some guys have made great strides with just mental fortitude and mental strength over training the out of themselves ok but can I ask you this yes they were successful yeah yeah their bodies break down right but could they have been better if they used the flow exactly right as Dan Gable for example example like that but Dan Gable essentially was done in his 20s right in terms of like his body's breakdown exactly knee replacements hip replacements that kind of deal let me

77:10ask you this who wins more often Russians or American wrestlers Russians every time an American wrestler wins he's like some proud prodigy mm-hmm he's rare it does happen but it's rarely he's a technical master right however you have these Russian guys that win gold medals you've never heard of them and they're like Michael Jordan's of the sport yeah they train long consistent practices whereas America we do Monday Wednesday Friday hard we kill it and then you rest you see a Thursday the Eastern Bloc had a totally different understanding there like it's volume volume volume near the fight short and intense only near the the competition phase but before that it's the maximum amount of volume you can imagine me Inuit were two athletes a and B your amb you're training jiu-jitsu three times a week really really hard you're going all-out I'm training jiu-jitsu every single day my average

77:59practices two hours your average practices two hours but when you go in you kill it like you you go you go with all the black belts and you kill it at the end of the year I'm averaging three practices or two practices more than you so I've had a hundred practices more than you by the end of the year 104 practice mm-hmm let's give two weeks for vacation hundred practices more than you 200 hours more than you have been training when we roll your intensity that you put on the mat is gonna be irrelevant why because I've also tasted that intensity periodically it's not that much of a factor now when you go super aggressive on me and when you attack me aggressively I have felt that I know how to deal with it plus I have an extra 100 hours on you 200 hours so I'm gonna mangle you you know I'm saying the volume is far more important than the intensity the intensity by nature is

78:46neat is neat to be done periodically if you do it every day it's not intensity so how the Russians how do they structure their training they're more playful you know they were kind of like they kind of warm up they kind of floral they kind of like they do a lot of technique a higher emphasis on technique now a lot of people hearing this are gonna be like well the Russians also are funded by their government you know their government supports them a lot more than maybe an American wrestler okay I agree with that there are many factors however we can't deny that they're technically I hate to say the word superior but they're technically a more advanced technically and when it comes to wrestling they have a more of a flow understanding they play around and it and it and and the practice gets more and more intense more and more intense until you see them going really really

79:24hard they're going live you know they're going really really rough but they were playing they have a more playful attitude you look at the Cubans you ever see Cubans a sparring they're like 50 guys in the room they're just touch barring there's no headgear there's no mat on the floor they're literally sparring on concrete you think they're really trying to drop each other they're on concrete I mean the Cubans are the top boxers that consistently win gold medals but it practiced from their playful nobody gets hurt like you're seeing the Thais mm-hmm ties are just if you go in there and you and you kick a tire really hard he won't spar with you anymore he was like this guy's tools to amateur there's a time and place for intensity I'm not anti intensity I think there's a time a place like Angelo Dundee was probably arguably the greatest boxing trainer in history

80:03he says look fighting is for fight night in practice it's only practice George st. Pierre has that attitude and I think that's why he's so good and so healthy today you know because he never hurts his sparring partners people line up to want to spar with him it's a joy to spar with him yeah I love this idea and I love this approach I think that we we have this attitude that you have to be tough we have this attitude that you have to work hard and I mean I've fallen prey to that many many times in my life or you just got to be tougher you got to work out harder you got to push harder but when I read Pavel stuff one of the first things that struck me is like well yeah of course if you just do five reps every day mm-hmm and then you won't be sore you could do it more often and then your body like you get Farmar strength exactly where's Farmar strength come

80:52from farmers I mean they're not going to exhaust you know you know they're not like throwing hail bit bales hay bales to the point where you know they literally they're heaving they're put their hands and knees like come on five more you should never be sore if you're sore you overdid it whoa because I can't train the next day if I'm sore by open the wound every time I work out then with that I said I've overdone it every day do you they have you have a lot of people listen to this right now how the make your workout to seven out of ten and do them every day you're gonna get far more training hours you're gonna spike your mitt you're gonna spike your metabolism far more often mm-hmm your energy levels your mood is gonna be far more up and and training is gonna be more addictive now what kind of training do you do at this stage like you're not competing but you're constantly in there

81:43sparring with guys who are professionals and you can try training them like what kind of stuff do you do i do Jitsu wrestling muay thai and a small amount of conditioning after practice I'll do i I'm too bored I find jumping hurdles and and throwing like doing weights and stuff me personally I don't find that is enjoy I don't have to take that much enjoyment of it I can do 5 to 20 minutes in a practice isn't that because sparring is just so fun so much fun I'm in a full state we're having fun you know we're wrestling with yeah I think addition you can't get away with it you need it you need I know we got to talk about what George was singing on your podcast he doesn't do strength and conditioning there's there's a language issue there there's no language and what we got to talk about that because we've done tremendous amounts of strength and conditioning me and George like

82:23tremendous like barrels full okay and but he has a different definition he there's a misunderstanding okay so I really want to clarify that but me person like look what if we roll for an hour for me passes like this because it's so fun it's so fun we're having a good time I'm fascinated I'm fascinated that God you grabbed the ax is I think I'm always learning new things right to swing a kettlebell to do push-ups pull-ups I can only do that for a fine amount of time so I'll put a timer three rounds two minutes and I'm doing it and I bite the bullet and I do it that keeps me healthy but I don't go and practice to just do that that I never do it's always after my workout after I do jujitsu so you'll never have a day where you say today I'm gonna do Olympic lifting no I don't think Muhammad Ali ever did that Muhammad Ali never he boxed and they needed his conditioning Mayweather does

83:08his conditioning then he boxes it always came together why when I go to the gym I'm gonna go to have fun I'm gonna wrestle I'm gonna go box I'm gonna have a blast then I'm gonna grab the kettlebell I'm gonna do a few presses I'm gonna do a few Turkish get ups and I'm done mmm because I need to have some general fitness you have general fitness then you have specific fitness specific fitness is to get better at my sport general fitness to keep me healthy strong and allow me to reach new levels of athleticism that later in the long term can translate to my sport later but if you just do your sport in my opinion your system is gonna break down your back is gonna break down your knees gonna break down your shoulders gonna break down you need to stimulate certain muscles that are not getting stimulation in your specific sport hmm you create atrophy in certain muscles because

83:53you're not using them really right I need to work my stabilizers I need to swing the kettle by I need to squat I need to do certain exercises like what are they what are their standard course kettlebells for is that like triple extension is number one so any type of squatting I don't particularly use the squat I like to jump oh extension triple extension so your knee hip and ankle are bending so like a squat your knee hip and ankle are bending I like to jump I like to throw the med ball a lot against the wall I like to do hurdles I like to box charms I like to very low impact biometrics I like sprinting sprinting is huge you ever do the beat test what's that oh you got you got the space for the beep test here you got to implement what is the best way to do cardio never hear the the soccer players uses a lot it's a beep bread you run you beep and then it beeps back and the faster the

84:36beats go the faster you have to run uh-huh that's really amazing because what I do is I set a timer for 5 minutes I put it on a high pace I got put a 10 or 11 and I'll just shuttle back and forth and it keeps it tells you how fast to run the beat test and some days I feel really good I'll do 11 because I know how fast I have to run to keep up with the beats and that just it's amazing for cardio it's short sweet painless and it's it's very translates very well to sports do you do Tabares you ever do Tabata butters are good yeah yeah I think Tabata is are good if they're done well they're good but again you have to do it in a way it doesn't create soreness because Tabata can create soreness you have to be very good I wouldn't do Tabata kettlebell swing that'll that'll cook my my hamstrings I'll probably do like hurdle jump like you take a small hurdle and you just hurdle over it for

85:1920 seconds now what you're saying though like there's got to be a bunch of CrossFit people out there right now that are screaming into their phones they're wrong they're wrong with all the respect they're wrong let me tell you why okay and look if you like CrossFit do it whatever motivates you do it okay crosses problem is its fatigue seeking yes it says look go out there and burn yourself out yeah that's totally wrong they're not building any skill try to show me a guy who is a champion and CrossFit champion in jiu-jitsu like I would need two lifetimes to reach mastery in both of those why because my CrossFit workout is gonna text me so much I cannot learn armbar sweep triangle choke double leg takedown under hook I'm a you have taxed my whole system my system is in recovery when your system is in recovery what can you do but rest you understand okay half a

86:07Mendez do you think half a Mendez one of the arguably the greatest pound-for-pound one of the greatest pound-for-pound jujitsu guys in the world you think he's got a great CrossFit workout that he's really mastered he's really good at anything he has a great back squat do you think is a great deadlift er now he doesn't believe me you think we think Gordon Ryan he's a great Olympic lifter no there they're always gonna be at an amateur level in that in the fitness world why because if they were experts they would have taken so much from their jiu-jitsu like look at George he does gymnastics okay and I'm the one who I twisted his arm a little to put him in gymnastics why because I thought it would it would give him tremendous benefit because of the amount of first of all they use a lot of body weight so it doesn't cost us anything neurologically body weight exercises are

86:50very easy to recover from body weight exercises are very easy on the nervous system they use leverage instead of weights plus the stabilizer strength is unbelievable so and of course I want a coordination I felt George was a little bit stiff mechanical and the tumbling makes you more fluid and I think I thought I would create more efficiency this way so we get him there and there's there's difficulties okay from A to F we're still at a and B and he'll always be at a and B maybe he'll touch C in his career but he'll never get to F you'd have to start really young and you'd have to do it full-time you know imagine somebody trying to get good at it so doing it part-time he'll never get good he'll be so so he'll reach such a level CrossFit is too fatigued seeking for an MMA fighter now if CrossFitters followed if they if they just followed that 70% rule they

87:44can and periodically went to their max periodically as opposed to every single workout go totally out I bet you they're top top guys don't go all out every day I bet you if you watch what their top guys do they taper off the worker they make the workout between 70 and 85 percent of their true max and they work volume and then closer to competition they go higher in intensity I guarantee you that's what the best CrossFitters do there's no way that the guy who goes balls out every day is gonna add up as much workout and as much training time as the guy was going 70 to 85 percent of his max there's just no way but when they do those classes like say they do across her class and I'm speaking out of ignorance honestly because I only watch them on video I've never done at a CrossFit class but it seems to me they're competing against each other yeah they're going all-out trying to set

88:26a PR yeah every class yeah that's ridiculous all due respect I mean does it make any sense but why is it so popular because people think that's right because why because when you watch a prime-time or a fight the guys at the peak he's going he's at a point in his career in his foot in his training camp where he's at the high end of intensity so people are always watching the last part of your camp mm-hmm the part where you're peeking and then you're gonna go taper off for 10-15 days they don't see that part and they don't see the months before where you ramped up to that level they just see the last two-three weeks where it's the last few sparring's and we're mimicking fight speed to the maximum as we can yeah we're flirting with danger here we're only doing it a little bit but that's the part everybody's watching so they think oh if you want to become really good you have to flirt with

89:09danger every day if that's what their workouts are if you see George train throughout the year you'd be like hey that wasn't so intense that wasn't so intense there's another really mellow practice I remember when I was younger I was training at the Grand brothers Jim and I would see all this Grant you know he's world champion boxer he's everybody know him in Canada he's a man and he was training really relaxed I was like dude I'm trading harder than him but he's that's his millionth work out it was my 10th you know he's doing in the long run he's added way more years of training so that's when I started understand that the champion the best guy he's training for the long run it's far more intelligent he's getting far more workouts in than me that's burned out and the next day I need a rest right yeah so it's it's consistency over intensity intensity entails you need to

89:51take a break there's no way around it so if you're a young person listening to this and you've got a coach that's trying to burn you out every day the do you do going to the gym ago you know what I was listening to Frost hobby the other day and for us saying you're a here's my here's my you know when I roll with guys I think they feel when I grab them I'm grabbing them gently and they realize it mm-hmm and I'll let them like I'll let guys pass my guard I'll just go ahead start second roll and I'll just get they'll get the message that we're just kind of playing around right and then later when we're going more intense you know they'll feel it they'll feel the intensity but I don't always roll hard like if you see me rolling like I usually will roll with blue dots and purple balls why is any to warm up I need two three four rounds of warm-up right I don't want to even have

90:42a tight shoulder or tight hamstring or four I don't want anything type of course so I warm up with them really good when I'm really warm then I go and I wrestle I like to go rest I extend up okay who wants to wrestle now let's go because I'm really warm now I can wrestle I could hit the ground well you're in a position where you can sort of determine and dictate yeah what kind of exercises you do right but if your the question was like if you're a young person and you're entering into an MMA gym and the instructor goes to be kind is a meathead right which there's a lot of them out there there is yeah what do you do what do you do you might have to take a few beatings as a white belt you might like I I mean I grinded my gears when I was younger but as you get older and more skilled now you can take the VIP lane you know now is the time you've got to skill and you've got the

91:29knowledge versus early on you have less miles on you so it's you survive more more of a beating you ever see those there's a lot of jujitsu classes where they go through an extremely rigorous conditioning routine before they ever do any training mmm and I've always disagreed with that I agree totally right yeah I feel like show me one world champion that did it that way wow I don't know maybe maybe it's possible that they did who I don't know I don't know who did what I've trained with a lot of the greatest Jitsu guys in the world and they're all warm up with technique yeah all of them you think Ryan Hall gets up and does the burpees before practice you think he goes in two runs five miles he does weights well I know that like a lot of the old-school guys they were they were into that like isn't how crazy famous for his those conditioning drills they do I don't know

92:19but he never won like you know I mean he was in a time in place where very few people knew jujitsu right now we're in where the secret's out who are the top guys what are they doing yeah I feel like this also a thing where people want to be really tired from workouts they feel like you're getting a great workout and if you can beat them down mm-hmm yeah I agree with that there's there's a disconnect it was like I want to feel pain punish me yeah you're you're retarding growth though yeah you know if people don't like that word anymore but because you know they think you're talking about some of the disease but the real term of being of retarding you're you're slowing down and that's really what action is like you're you you have an issue in that the way you're approaching things is uniquely damaging to your ultimate goal of progress I agree it's so common

93:18someone right now is listening to isn't like his life it's blaze my better going to class and they know they're gonna happen new all these crazy burpees and all this crazy before class it's so common icarus you fly too close to the Sun what happens to you you burn very drought this is stay in the middle so if you're gonna do those conditioning exercise kinda half-ass I'm half ass it'll bit ya permission that's why I like I like to make conditioning after mmm yeah because my body is born and I don't need because the thing is look when you do conditioning before you weaken your stabilizers the prime mover the muscles in your body that are prime movers have more endurance than your stabilizers so if you weaken the stabilizers your joint is less stable while you're rolling yes the the element of fatigue can put your joints in danger that's why I only do because when you're

94:09when you're when you're doing exercises you're in control you're not on a live role with somebody trying to tug on your arm right so I need maximum strength when somebody's trying to tug on my arm in case I'm in a bad position I need to make sure that I have my strength levels are there to protect my joints George but the joint protection is huge you need to make sure your joints are healthy it's huge what kind of exercises do you do to make sure your joints are protected well I do uh the supple leopard I do a lot of mobility work and I do low-impact plyometrics low-impact so for instance that's why I like the med ball throwing the med ball against the wall I like to do steps you know like you have a block and in 12 inch block I'd like to jump like do steps over back and forth so you kind of jump up in the air but you never leave the ground because the block is also high

94:49mm-hmm so you never get the negative contraction you never get the impact of hitting the ground now like sprinting I like explaining that how do you not getting the negative impact so let's say for instance there's this is a block mm-hmm okay this is my feet right here so I'm like this I'll jump like I saw I'll jump okay so you touch the block I'm touching the block so I'm never when I when I jump off the ground I'm landing on the block so I'm always stepping down jumping up stepping down jumping up I say so I'm always exploding up but landing on a block softly because it's when you jump up it's the landing that kills your joints mmm if I put up a 50 inch box I mean you jump up the the landings in me are soft if I tell you jump over a hurdle now you're in midair and you're crashing down towards the ground and you land we got absorb that shock but that's why I like like hill sprints Hill

95:39Sprint's are great because your foot never leaves the ground even though you're exploding upwards that the ground is coming up with you yeah so it's a very soft landing the soft landing is key ya know that makes a lot of sense that makes a lot of sense but what about hitting back then it's the best cardio is the best I do a lot of Dutch drill for cardio Dutch drills with this drill left hook right kick right hand left kick three minutes just Bob sometimes I do three-punch combo two punch combo and I finished with a kick or a double kick and I just spiked my heart rate that way I'm developing my skill developing my cardio I get very lean when I do that and feel great I feel my energy levels are up it's a it's better than doing bike or running personally because I'm developing my skill and I'm also spiking my heart rate a Dutch drill can be very intense on the

96:23heart rate it's low-impact and it's a plyometric it's everything I need yeah do you what what weight and heavy bag do you use I use the fairtex to giant pull bag they call it like a big big giant bag it touches the ground so when I kick it it doesn't move wow that's heavy as yeah that's like a 300 pound bag right yeah why do you like that one because when I kick it the bag doesn't swing so I don't have to reset I can keep that pace really high so I'm going pop pop pop pop pop poppin are you hitting it full blast or you just mom as I get warmed up I hit harder and harder to him full blast Wow so I might start really relaxed kicking low to the leg then as the workout gets warmer and warmer and hotter and hotter I'm sweaty might start kicking to the head mmm everything is gradual warm-up you know and when I've had enough I stop like I'm not gonna make myself sick because I'm

97:09working out tomorrow again right now what about stretching stretching I like but I prefer mobility so mobility is the element of stretching your muscle but also creating motion the joint has to be in a type of rotation in or out why because you're creating sovan synovial fluid the joint the joint is really more important to me than the muscle because the muscle rejuvenates itself the joint doesn't it does that is lesser degree so I got to always be oiling up the joints it's very important to me very important now when you say like mobility like what do you do like for your hamstrings and things like that if you're trying to stretch them out and also do mobility so let's say I stretch out my leg I'll be just kind of bending out the head in and out mm-hmm I won't just leave it out there static there has to be a type of motion it's very important because when I'm wrestling or

97:56I'm doing jiu-jitsu my legs out there and I'm creating motion I have to move I'm not just putting it out there right there's always a type of movement because when I stretch my leg out to stop you from passing the guard I'm gonna be moving my body at the same times that's mobility it's different stretching mobility there is a stretch element to mobility but it's stretching there's no mobility element now what about yoga I think yoga is good for relaxation and the range of motion I think it's very good I just don't personally have the time and energy for it because I'm always in the gym so for me to find time for yoga it's a little bit difficult but I think it does allow for a great range of motion and relaxation and centering if you have the time in your schedule it's good I just personally with three kids and my everything that I do I just I'm in the

98:35gym already too much right right right yeah I just wonder like for fighters I mean I'm hearing more and more fighters incorporate yoga into the training sessions just try to create more balance and and also stability joint stability in particular because you're holding these static positions for long periods of time balance and and it's a brilliant art your core as well yeah it's a brilliant art if you can have the time and energy to do it it's it's great now what about nutrition nutrition is huge what how do you eat right now I just finished Ramadan so I've been eating a lot of processed foods I've had like Ramadan's like the it's the time of the year where I gain a lot of weight because normally throughout the year it's very little processed foods I eat natural foods mm-hmm but during Ramadan because I was such a small window to eat to fit my calories in and I'm very busy all year

99:23round I'm I always I'm always have projects or not fights traveling I eat processed food so when I eat processed food that I process because there's more calories in them you know if I got if I gotta get my if I'm gonna go the whole day after no water no food I need to have eaten a certain amount of of of calories in the night mmm so if I eat whole if I eat a salad and then some fruits I'm gonna be I'm gonna be at zero bite afternoon Ryan in a hot gym with a bunch of guys we need to drill and work and I'm sweating in the gym just standing there and I haven't even started yet I'm sweating I got a whole pass I got a wrestle this guy this guy needs these positions like I'm working and at zero so I need that that that density of foods that I get from processed foods but I take a serious loss in energy and and and and I get I gotta gain weight for sure no doubt about it

100:13Wow sauces foods is the worst so for Ramadan for the month in the moment you wake up until the Sun Goes Down you can't have any food in any water no from the sunrise sunrise so you wake up before sunrise right you eat most people do that by day by the middle Midway of Ramadan I stopped doing that because I just can't get up anymore I just can't wake up my body's a bit of a wreck so but from sunrise to sunset you're not consuming anything no no food no water well if you can have water it would be easy like I know people do water fast I've done water fast it's quite easy you have the energy but when you cut the water it's it becomes a problem especially if you're in a hot gym and and you're just sweating standing there yeah and now it's in the summer Ramadan's and summer is very humid in Canada and it's hot yeah very hot so I have to be very careful and that's why at night even

101:04just to resist eating processed foods it's too difficult you gotta eat so do you have a specific calorie number that you try to hit um no not really honestly no I just signed up foods you eating when you say process whatever my mom or wife is gonna make you nominate like a pasta I'm gonna eat like I'm gonna eat bread I'm gonna eat you know whatever whatever dominated dessert after I'm gonna have a cheese cake I'm gonna eat all the stuff I don't eat you know I'm gonna eat all the stuff I never eat Wow I'll make myself an omelet you know I I just I'll just we'll just crush it at night I crush it at night I crush that night but I pay the price after I you know I have to Ramadan I gotta lose the weight I gotta get back in shape I gotta you know it's like I guess a lot of people would think that if you're not eating all day that you would lose weight yeah most people do Ramadan they

101:47lose weight like everybody like I lost my guys I gained weight why cuz the thing is I know what I'm doing the next day it's gonna be rough mm-hmm you know I'm not just working in an office you know I got a I got a move I got a move my body yeah so I packed the pad the calories in the night before I hydrate and then I go in the gym and I try to make it like no I'm like I try to do my routine as usual the hydrating parts got to be the most difficult that's gotta be exhausting yeah that stuff some fighters have actually gone to training camps while there are no Mohammed yeah yeah I would be loud yeah very dangerous in my opinion and risky well he won he won god bless me yeah crazy I have one of my fighters now he was doing Ramadan I was telling him off I was like listen you can't book a fight and do Ramadan it's one of the other you guys do your Ramadan after the fight but not during

102:35the camp this is too risky too dangerous right and there's literally smarting he was literally sparring I was like dude why you look so flattered he's like I got a confess here I'm like what is it I'm doing Ramadan I said dude you gotta do Ramadan and cancel your fight or you book your fight you don't run after the two is dangerous it's not the Ramadan is not about putting yourself and can you do Ramadan anytime you want if it interferes with your work you can do it after when it's convenient okay so you don't have to do it uniformly when everyone else is doing no because it's he has a fight booked it's his career that's how you put food on the table okay so you have an exception here okay do your Ramadan after your fight like for instance backtick Mira's I pick tech he's doing his Ramadan after he just fought he's doing it afterwards why because during

103:19the camels like the you're either doing Ramadan row and we're canceling the fight or you're gonna take your you know you do your job and you do ramen after and he was like okay I understand that's the way it's done and he looked fantastic did against I mean it's just Lamas rather Lamas is a very tough veteran mmm-hmm Carlos been around yes he's fought the best of the best he's fought for the title and that was a really really professional performance but yeah Ricardo came to win also I mean he had that creepy mustache to its aspect excreta mustache I think he's young he's exploring his looks you know experimenting with the creepy mustache yeah he's a good kid though a very nice guy yeah I was just super impressed with the way he handled llamas because llamas is he's I mean Lamas is as well-rounded as you're gonna get wrestlers got great striking great

104:12submission skills so it pretty much does any scene so much mm-hmm that for him to win and win down the stretch like he was overwhelming um deep into the second and the third I was like well this is a guy that's clearly hitting his stride and in your next level yeah he did a great job now when a guy like that is coming off of a fight like the Darren Elkins fight howdy how do you build him back up after that fight well you know what I feel like he was trying to do too much and he wore himself out and Elkins is one of those guys where if you give him a window and the fights over you know he's one of those those guys who was dangerous he knows what to do in the right in the particular situation he's not gonna panic and he found the right moment to beat Mirza but I think just Mears had overworked himself and he didn't find pockets to because the thing is you cannot exert yourself at a

104:58maximum pace forever we gotta find pockets of recovery and get back to it yeah I felt like he just he overextended himself in the fight yeah I feel like that was the case too but it's how do you know when to mean how do you know when to push the idea is that you want to break your opponent right so how do you know when you're breaking yourself how do you know when your opponent has too much gas you're not going to like garlic Elkins is famous for his durability in his heart so he's an interesting case yeah I think I think the master of that is George George recovers in the round we always talk about recovering in the round and never showing the guy your maximum point like let's say we're fighting men you and I see you back off because you're tired you're having a putt and you sir I know your breaking point now I know that if i push this pace a little bit more you're

105:40gonna break there's no more reserves however if you get to about 70% of your fatigue and then you start circling and I see you're circling but I don't see you're fatigued you're just doing that as a as a as a decoy you're pretty mind games with me but really you're recovering mmm you're playing mind games with me you're circling you're tying me up in ways you're you know that I'm never gonna go over 70% I'm never gonna redline in a fight only at the last bit of the fight am I gonna redline because I have a reserve and case things go wrong I have a reserve to explode out of a position that I might need so the only times our red line is if I'm in trouble in the fight and I have to go all-in because the fights can be over or it's the end of the fight the guys who go all-in and round one for me eventually they will lose because some guys gonna weather that storm side step and he's

106:25gonna is gonna put the kill on you when you're when you're in recovery more like Francis and grano and steep améo Church right Francis came out guns blazing a first round Blues wad exactly in the second and the third exactly they took over when you go for the kill you're risking losing the decision or leave afterwards if you don't get the kill if you overextend if you go all-in yeah and there's no reserve you better get that kill if you don't what's amazing is that when guys go all-in in the first round even if they're in great shape sometimes they don't recover enough to complete the fight right if the guy they're fighting is skilled enough to not allow them that yeah you know if you roll with a blue belt you'll never get tired he doesn't have the skill to make me work right however if I'm with a black belt and I get exhausted and now he's making me work right

107:12I may never recover right right yeah that's it it's well it's not just it's also the way you go out if you go out full clip in that first round you you have essentially sprinted yourself into a position where you're just so diminished there's so many fighters are like that right like Conor is kind of a good example Conor is fantastic in the beginning of a fight right but man he gets to them third fourth and fifth rounds and he takes it like the Nate Diaz fight the second fight he becomes human he turned and walked away from him becomes very healing needed that break so badly when you see that do you think that that is a case of put and I don't want you to give away too much because you know George potentially wants to fight Goliath right do you think that that's a case of poor conditioning do you think that is a lack of experience in handling those moments because he's

108:08so used to overwhelming people and taking them out early what do you think that is I think it's partly genetic really yes because you see I call it a touch of death you know he's got that left hand it's the touch of death yeah that touch of death comes at a cost okay how do you have the touch of death where does power come from okay well if you look at Michael Hogan or we're talking about earlier he has he has a criteria for power to the best of his knowledge is where he believes power comes from okay so I can't teach Hussein both to be powerful I can only make him faster but where did that initial power come from number one on the list number one is where your muscle is attached to your bone was genetic so Tyson hit so he has a powerful left hook not because his coach taught him out a hit on the hook he could have hit a left hook like that if you had a mediocre trainer it has to

108:53do with the leverage of his bones so for instance you know if I'm gonna imagine how like a like a really heavy pole that weighs 100 pound and I want to stand it up well depending on where I grab it I'm gonna have more resistance or less resistance if I grab it near the end I have more leverage so where your muscles attach to your bone is gonna is gonna dictate how much leverage you get out of it second most important element is the type of muscle fiber you have the type so if you have a fast twitch muscle fiber you can hold less oxygen but it can twitch faster hence the name so if you're a slow twitch muscle fiber guy you can metabolize more oxygen but you can't twitch as fast so there's a give and take neck the exactly so you have a guy Nick Diaz who needs to knock her out with volume you can't knock you out with one shot like look at BJ Penn if Ron won he doesn't

109:42knock you out likelihood of knock you out and round two is less right Diaz is the opposite the likelihood of him knocking you on round three is higher than 1:1 yeah because of the cumulative at attack yeah McGregor look at his stats it's all round one knockout round one knockout round round round two knockout he's fast which high-leverage left hand yeah if you take him into deep waters his fast twitch muscle fibers cannot metabolize with Mayweather Mayo they're so smart he let him work he let McGregor work for three rounds yeah and you're getting excited keep working keep working and when you have nothing left I'm gonna put you out you know there was such a brilliant strategy it was it was so obvious how much more efficient he was exactly no and more relaxed Connor had his moment early in the fight where he hit him with someone unorthodox punches and some some weird

110:29movement but after a while was just I found both of them had a brilliant performance because when McGregor did to go in his world Oh crowd was brilliant it was brilliant just crazy crazy that that it even happened mhm really stop and think about it's almost like the world got a magic trick but it was unbelievable I want George to fight me whether I keep bothered you fight me whether you fight it he's like it's crazy I know it's crazy but I bet Mayweather would do it that's what I'm saying might have to lose a shitload of weight they'll find a catchweight do you think Mayweather is worried that he's gonna get concussed he's fought all the top punches in the world right he's just gonna have to worry about George's volume and reach but he can handle himself and George can handle himself but the whole world is gonna tune into that one you know what I'm saying

111:09I like George you selling it George doesn't want to fight a smaller guy doesn't want to call it a smaller guy so it's gonna have to come from me with it it's gonna have to there's another big-money fight yep but is it a bit as big a money fight that's the thing the real big-money fight is in somehow or another McGregor convincing the world that he could beat him in a second fight like I know the weather yes oh how that that's a heart sound so hard so we bought that one already yeah George to fight McGregor there was the one thing of doing it in the Octagon and doing it with small gloves and no kicks remember there was there was some talk of that and people were like war is his talk coming from I don't know if it was legit or not I mean all day know Dana said it's 100% yeah but because the state can't enforce that so if McGregor wants to throw a kick he'll throw a kick right it has to be

112:00gentleman's rule do you remember when that happened with Tim Sylvia and Ray Mercer no Tim Sylvia fought Ray Mercer and they had originally been scheduled by the boxing match gentlemen's rules but the Commission said they wouldn't sanction the fight firstly because Tim Sylvia doesn't have any pro boxing experience Ray Mercer Olympic gold medal as former world champion and they decided to have an MMA fight when they had a gentlemen's agreement to not throw kicks Tim opens up with an inside leg kick of course you see a fight I just kick it starts off and Tim Sylvia immediately this is go before this go before this is that's the ko if you go before this they open up and Tim kicks them right away and the Gracie raid puts his hands down you I can't believe this oh that's right hmm and then he hit some ways down he's just Hey oh you see that one more time boom I mean come on son and that's like

112:59a fifty-year-old Ray Mercer at the time that's why he gave that look yeah he couldn't believe it it's like I thought we weren't kicking man so they've made a gentlemen's agreement and Tim Sylvia is like yeah whatever dude but he paid for that hmm I mean he got starched that was that's it's also the difference in skill level you see a guy like Ray Mercer who's seen all these patterns and a guy like Tim Sylvia is just so used to MMA fighter striking mmm it's a different different speed also it is how much does it help fighters to cross-train in these different disciplines and how difficult is it to take those skills and then to put them into their overall MMA game I think it's beneficial if you do it to a certain degree because if you go too much let's say you're always spar with pro boxers there's a distance that's not realistic because NME you're further away from each other yeah so

113:55when I get to that distance the guy's gonna grab me however because there's more punches per second it's more of an intensive training so if you can deal with that speed of training then later when I put you in animes own it's slower a little bit so there's that element there's a balancing act there's a boxing with pro boxer but then there's doing it too much then when you're sparring with MMA fighter it's harder to hit them a fighter than it is for me to hit the boxer right because we're in a different pattern we're a different world I want to do just a bit of that not too much is there are there any patterns that people pick up in boxing that become a real problem when you add in elbows yeah yeah when you duck down some guys just start okay you throw overhand I'm gonna duck down dude you do that once with me I'm throwing a left kick right after my ran I'm throwing a

114:35shallow right hand and the left kicks coming upstairs and when you slip you're slipping right into the kick John Jones Daniel Cormier exactly I mean that was a pattern that John had seen and they even talked about it beforehand what Daniel said don't think you're gonna hit me with that left high kick hmm which is kind of crazy you see how it went down hmm yeah that's a weird thing when people just develop a sort of pattern that they just keep repeating over and over again and then it's in sexual mm-hmm you want to take it out now good luck good luck taking it out it's not that's one of the things that when you see people learning technique one of the more difficult things is to relearn something once you learn it one way like with kicking in particular when they get tired or when they get nervous they revert back to their old way of kicking and you see it especially if they

115:28learned it young yeah it's hardwired yeah how do you get a guy out of that I haven't been very successful like for instance if I think a guy was been kicking in Taekwondo his entire life and then I try to teach him a Thai kick it's not that easy it's really yeah that's why I believe when you're young you have to have a diversity you have to learn how to kick like a tie like a Taekwondo guy like a karate guy like a kickboxer the variety and then you can go and out there and you can morph your style you could exchange from one style of kicking to another mmm however if you've done 10 years of one-way and you were hardwired that way it's very difficult almost not worth it to redo it just let him kick the way he kicks really yeah it's not worth it not worth it no because you're gonna treat him for so many hours then he's gonna go in there he's gonna revert

116:07back like you said when he's under the pressure and the stress he's gonna revert back to what he normally does when he's a little bit tired it's more efficient for him mmm so you're asking him now to do something new is there any way to rewire a person's brain not that I know of not nothing that not of course you can you can change some of this behavior absolutely mm-hmm but if it's hardwired from a young age we're talking about it's a long-term project do you have the amount of time you could do it but it's a lot of time and energy and it's painful it's painful to undo an old way yeah it's a lot of energy the guy will feel tired the girl feel sluggish to go feel uncomfortable because he's doing something inefficient you see those patterns though where will you watch a guy fight and go man why does he always do that he's always throwing these wide looping punches like why can't he throw

116:56efficient smooth technical punches he might have learned I've had that problem they learned it wrong early on in the career then when they get to you they're good enough to get to you they're good enough to you know come near the UFC another they want that next level and you're working with this new athlete who has so many inefficiencies you got to remove them one by one gently if you try to recall him you just confuse them yeah he just doesn't know what to do anymore what do you want to do coach like I'm totally lost it's it's like a second scientific experiment right you isolate one variable if you change too many things we don't know what causes what anymore you're in it you're in a chaotic now you're now you're in a world of chaos yeah he doesn't know what works anymore you don't know what's wrong if I knew one thing at a time we don't want to flood you and we don't want to

117:38bottleneck you where we're taking you from one place to another one step at a time gently and you have to ask yourself what's the one thing I can help this guy with the one thing they'll change the rest of the system this is the most important thing and let's do that one thing at a time so when you see a guy and say like he's got a keel cushioned background or something like that and you see he throws kicks but he keeps landing with the instep mm-hmm you just let him keep doing it like that um yeah it depends how many years he has and how much time we have before the next fight because I believe it can work it works the reason why karate still here is because it worked right guys one right you know it exists karate is not a song about space if it works if you can make it work I might teach a quarter guys some boxing and then his karate will shine even more

118:20because he could burn it yeah that does seem to be the problems when I mean Taekwondo guys in particular they don't punch to the face so when they get into sparring situations and they're first learning how to do it we saw that with Raymond Daniel's early in his career as well I just have the hardest time with the hands hmm so do you take a guy like that and just have them only box or I would make him bucks a lot and that'll open up his kicks even more definitely no doubt about it especially with his reach and his his his distance his footwork that he has you could look he could do a lot more I think do you write all this stuff down like your thoughts on these things I know you do you youtube series yeah you have but have you ever considered putting out a book on your ideas of MMA I'm writing a book but it's more it's more of a philosophy book then I have a background

119:05philosophy I would agree in philosophy so I spend a lot of time just contemplating things so I do a lot of fight philosophy stuff I write it down publish a book not really interested in that to be honest with you I'm more interested in and going and philosophy writing about philosophy not so much MMA like the philosophy I'm more about truth reality paradigms you know how we see the world you know what is truth what is reality those kind of things I know it sounds weird that's coming from an MMA coach but I do a lot of philosophy on my own printing my own personal life I don't think it's weird at all I mean I think that what you do is essentially you're taking fighters and preparing them for one of the most difficult challenges in all professional sports mmm-hmm I don't think there's I don't think there's a more difficult challenge it's outside of war yeah exactly you

119:49know or being a firefighter or police officer were you actually putting your life in danger mmm I think yep combat sports are just it's extremely difficult to do and to be able to do like what you've done with George and what George has done as well I mean what you guys have done together it's just an incredible accomplishment and especially him coming back after four years off and looking better than he ever looked in the past that was what was crazy when he came back and the fluidity of his combinations the way he looked and the way he sunk that rear naked choke that was a rare rear naked choke in MMA where the blade of the hand was on the back of the neck and it was just fully sunk in you know that that you know how little see guys get the choke but you're seeing that and shamrock style back on the top to this I'll never talk to this he put me on if the hand is not behind you'd

120:44rather get put put out it's funny I was rolling with my students yesterday and I let him take him out like I was kind of toying with him and I let him take my back and he was stronger than I thought he was like I haven't wrestled with him in 10 years I just put out a YouTube video of me and him if you guys want to put it up it would be funny but this is we were rolling off-camera and I kind of let him take my back you know I never give up my back but sometimes he's purple belt so I'll just kind of toying with him a little and he put a choke in and I was like okay let's see if you can finish I don't think he finished it then all of a sudden who got in deeper and he didn't have the hand behind my head so I'm like I'm not gonna tap no way I was tough to this impossible first of all he should know better okay if I let him tap me with this he's gonna think he did it right it sounds like no

121:24but I was like and then when he took a breather I just took it I just took his hand out cuz I could reach your hand right it's not tucked away behind yeah I got out I'll never talk to this man never so he's doing this yes han is like here it has to be here that or no no really he's a good purple belt he's tough guy very good shape strong and the the the chokes not in the that was off-camera but I mean I would never talk to this like even in practice because it's not on the choke is not on right right right yeah there's definitely a difference but some guys have gotten it even in the UFC with just a gable grip the guys the guy who the guy who's being choked over the cable grip works yeah because I can't grow a crank I can't grab your hand mm I see were you saying like if your hand is here and I can grab it why would I choke why would I why would I top I can hold your hand I can grab on

122:15to it right right right yeah it's funny that in the early days that was how everyone did a real name it was more panic it's more panic okay oxygen is lower and you're tapping but you're not gonna go out people just didn't know any better that was okay to do right it's not that that palm in the back of the head was okay to do I don't know who figured out to do this noise okay I'm not against that it's when they're handed well it's here Brian it has to be unreachable if I can reach it I'm not stopping right I'm not forget that what would happen it's an experience if you're type it's like you panicked a bit what's your feeling though on tapping because here's the thing about tapping like this I've had some injuries where I walk I should just tap and I got out of it and I kept rolling it and then my elbows I know chin-ups for a couple months I stopped quick I don't have to

123:08strangleholds easily except for guillotines I feel like at work my neck yeah but a rear-naked there's no joint issue so I won't tap I'm as stubborn as the next guy my joints I tap right away I don't I don't put any miles on my joints but I want to be as good as I can be as healthy as they can be because I want to roll til I'm you know like the week before I die I want to be rolling the week before well that's the ultimate goal that very few people ever achieve every I know so many jiu-jitsu guys they're so busted up like Eddie Bravo has an artificial disc in his lower back both of his shoulders are completely and he's trying to avoid surgery and his shoulders and he's knee to right because I was just with him yeah in Vegas yeah his ACL he had a tear in his ACL and then he just got his knee operated on he had a bucket handle tear so he got his meniscus repaired but his his ACL

124:01was at least partially torn and he's letting it heal but I'm very skeptical about people that just let partial tail tears and ACLs here cuz I feel like yeah you let it heal but it healed with like 60% of its original string like you might have let it heal but how much did your weakness yeah you know what they're doing now which is really fascinating dr. Rodney Magee out of Las Vegas who does a lot of work with UFC fighters he's showing me that they're taking torn ACL is completely torn and instead of replacing it now with a cadaver graft or patellar tendon graft they actually take that ligament and can reattach it really and in three months they had someone competing in the Olympics really yes what dr. Roddy Magee Wow yeah cutting edge in America yeah in the US yeah honest and greatest and they're doing it's a crazy operation they're taking this broken ligament they

124:55obviously have to do it quick before it pulls back and disintegrates but when it gets to they get the torrent the Terra net they reattach it and they sew the out of this thing they've got like stitches in it it's all weirdly bound up and then it reattaches it reattaches and actually grows places your original ligament as well he's not you know it's way better that your body can reject or something that you're you know you don't have to compromise your patellar tendon you know I don't know how George had his done did he do the patellar tendon graft I feel like he did with him I think it did your hamstring did he don't have strain you can't remember he didn't he didn't take cadaver he took his own they do it both ways both times the same way I think so yeah I think so yeah if I remember correct Matt Matt Brown just did hamstring he just when he was done and

125:45they did a hamstring and he said it's he feels pretty good already yeah yeah it's a scary injury oh I've had both done really have had one with the patellar tendon graft and one with a cadaver the cadaver was much easier for me really yeah it took yeah I don't see the thing about it taking or not taking the idea what happens with the cadaver is people think that your your body takes it like an artificial heart no or like a you know transplanted heart it actually uses it as a scaffolding to reap relief rate with your own cells and I think part of the problem is it gives you the feeling that it's stronger than it is early on you're like yeah I'm ready to go I'm ready to go and you start you mean everybody wants to start rolling again everybody wants to start training again and so I think some guys just get in there a little bit too early and they do something and it pops and they go oh it

126:37didn't take well is that really the case or did you just put too much stress on it too early on I thought the fear was it can reject your body can reject it I've heard of that but I think that's extremely rare okay I think what what's more common is that they say it doesn't take like that it didn't but I think when I hear it from MMA guys it's like I know you're a mean head I know you guys are savages you get in there and you're training hard way earlier than you should be and then it up again I mean there's a bunch of guys that have gotten ACL surgery and then in the recovery process blew it out again it happens really common and then they're back to square one again right it's all narratives I mean even the even the I mean to explain something it's it's really just it's narrative that's where our explanations are 99% of the time just narratives and

127:29then to weed out narratives and not use them is very difficult what do you mean by that I mean there is difference between logical arguments empirical observations and then there are narratives we tell ourselves why things are happening around us all the time and it's 99% of the time it's wrong well we believe it we tell ourselves that and to try to work around that is actually quite difficult so like for instance when the field of philosophy and if you give an argument if you give a deductive argument your argument has to conclude that conclusion has have no other possibility there can be no other possibility all your premises have to be valid and sound and there can be no other possibility when I say hey my ligament didn't take there's a foul that's an explanation mmm it's one of many possible narratives it's one of its one of many many possible explanations I

128:20couldn't give why my why my knees injured now including that you didn't let it rest enough right exactly the first cover let's say I'm walking and I trip over my shoelaces I may be like I tripped over my shoelaces that's why I fell well you could have made if your shoelaces are retired maybe you tripped anyway maybe it was something else right you haven't you haven't eliminated every other possibility if you haven't eliminated every other possibility it's just a narrative mmm it's not actual fact the Tony Ferguson injury was the most up one of ever I ever write the week of the fight press trips on some cables and rips his knee apart for sure he had an injury before he's not aware of you think so there's there had to be a small rip a small tear a small weakness somewhere you know he can with he could withstand tripping on a cable but I mean but it was hanging by a

129:11thread is that the case or did it did he just fall at a really up man I didn't see the fall yeah but I assume he's in a a threat a guy had fallen away he catch himself falling in a way that you know is a flick maybe he had a you know when you're sparring you hurt yourself you don't feel it so much is going on maybe he hurt himself when he cooled down you didn't feel it it's not there's not many pain sensors there or whatnot again this is just a narrative right and he goes in there it's hanging by a thread he tugs it boom the whole thing breaks apart you know I did its well it's all sylheti it's such a violent injury if you see how bad it was did you see the surgery phone no I saw I saw actually a little bit craziest photos I've ever seen I mean his it's a enormous scar they have that kind of a scar in 2018 surgery techniques they have today it's very rare that you see someone who's

130:01just I mean it's you're looking at like a 12-inch scar really that I just saw I said oh my god wow that's huge it's incredible I mean that that is a giant scar it goes well below his knee to above the knee and they opened him up and what is this is this pre surgery what is that so they was it ACL is it no his MCL was a PCL which one is on the outside outside his MCL so his MCL was ripped completely royally bone Wow yeah man would go to his Twitter his Instagram page now does he have any updates cuz a guy like that you got a wonder like when is he that's the photo I saw no the suction cup is copping is that okay let me ask you this yeah cuz I was just having a conversation with someone who was it to just say cupping was it was a wasn't I was having a conversation with someone they're saying cupping is essentially almost total nonsense but so many people do it and they just put your

131:08mind that you're doing something and healing and doing something you know addition in addition to standard procedures - that's helping you out but really ain't doing I would say that's probably more psychological does it yeah it's fun it's psychological you feel like you're taking care of yourself and you makes you feel good it's psychosomatic it's back up hold on go back up to that image Jamie look look look at that that is crazy looking yeah it is yeah but you know psychosomatic medicine can help you but hearsay insurance covers acupuncture treatment because it's effective I was skeptical the first time I tried it but as ya see I don't know you're a complete then even insurance covers acupuncture well does acupuncture work Maliha never insisted never with it I've had it done to me I didn't particularly enjoyed it yeah I only had it done once and the guy was

132:08kind of a quack yeah once they start talking about toxins you know we're cleansing you see that's a narrative it's possible let's not prove it right it's just a possible story you told yourself yeah but that term toxins right is so that that is like there's certain things that people say well you know you're dealing with whoo this is some woowoo here and toxins is one of them cleansing and toxins I'm going on a class and I'm I'm getting the toxins out of my system the scientists are just as guilty as every other guy you think so oh yeah big-time in what way oh my god man like there's their scientist then there's philosophers of science mm-hmm there's so much woo in science even the most popular guys have whoo they just never studied the philosophy of science so they don't really understand what they're saying per se but give me an example I'll give you I'll give you

133:04great ease up okay okay there's a guy named Isaac Newton okay dude yeah and you're asking him hey Isaac why don't I fall off the face of the earth and he's gonna be like well Joe there's this gravity this is force of gravity pulling you down to the earth the earth has a greater mass than you therefore it's there's this force pulling you down we call it gravity and then some guy comes around his name is a hobby and he tells you no Joe don't listen to that guy I have another theory way more it's truer than his I believe there are gremlins pulling you down to the earth they have lasso these infinitely long lassos and every time you're falling off there if they pull you every time you jump up and down on the earth they pull you back down to the earth you don't see these gremlins they're invisible but that's what's pulling it down to the earth now how do you know who's right

133:48and who's wrong who's telling you the truth me or Isaac well Isaak lived a long time ago before they actually had provable studies that could show you why gravity works Namie one of those studies well I'm not a scientist well no sigh let me break it to you this way no scientist has a study to prove us that gravity works that's that's the whole thing that's that's what's scary about but then we talk about the university understand that gravity is in relation to the size and mass of objects so the moon is smaller therefore it has 1/6 Earth's gravity because it's 1/4 the size the earth there's a standard formula that you follow there's a correlation now my my theory of gremlins which obviously I don't believe in right I'm using mythological language to make it really stepped on somebody misquote me that I believe in gravity the gravity denier exactly well I have there's less there's

134:41less mass on there's less atoms the moon has less atoms therefore less gremlins lesser than pulling my gremlin theory correlates with the gravity theory exactly but I'm using a mythical language just to point out that every type of force we're talking about is an inference it's something we project out there we don't actually see gravity and you know later on Einstein debunked gravity right well what do you mean by he'd be democratize ik was totally wrong I can Isaac's explanation of why you don't fall off the earth was totally wrong well what did Einstein to the debunk it fine Stein taught us that a new theory a new hypothesis that gravity is a pushing force not a pulling force see Isaac Newton he debunked Aristotle first we still believe what Aristotle used to say IRA starter used to say look this thing has a natural place it has to be stuck to the earth that's his natural

135:37place it the force is within that one thing that's why it doesn't fall off the earth so when IRA startled saw a bird fly he said it look it has levity its natural state is to be in the air the force that it carries it up in the air it's within it it's within the bird itself mmm Isaac Newton came around said no that's totally wrong nobody no no entity can move itself it's only a force that's applied so let's say you're walking Isaac Newton would say you're not pushing yourself or you're pushing the ground beneath you backwards and that the ground is pushing you forwards so that every action is opposite equal reaction hmm so when I run I'm really pushing the ground behind me it sounds like like he's splitting hairs but he sings something actually very profound he's saying you're pushing the earth behind you and the earth is pushing you forward there's a reaction

136:25there so what they do to to illustrate that to kids is they take like a train track they elevate it and they turn on the train and then you see the train tracks starting to spin underneath the train and it's showing you look the Train is pushing the train tracks back and the train tracks are pushing the train forward when they're when they're connected to the ground so when I put you on a treadmill you're pushing the treadmill behind you the treadmills not pushing you forward because it's it's spinning along with you and if I put you on the ground the ground is pushing you forward now so for every action is obviously equal reaction I'm sure you heard this mm-hmm then Einstein comes along and says no that's totally wrong why when it comes to gravity okay when subject to gravity says because Isaac Newton says this look he says look the force of gravity is in the earth the

137:08earth has this invisible force this magical wow thing and that's what that's what it's contemporary said about him that's what his peer said he said oh you you're appealing to magic what is this gravity thing where it's not it's noncom poriyal it's not material it's not made of a substance is this magic and he was like yeah it's this force you can't feel it you can't detect it it's just observable in the in nature and for 300 years everybody believed that and then I ice Tyne comes along says no you guys are totally wrong there is no mythical force called gravity it's a pushing force so really what he says is sorry let me let me get a sheet of paper here make it really really simple and I'm gonna put it in a nutshell here okay but okay this is he says look Einstein says look space and time are one space is actually a thing out there it's actually a physical space

137:53between me and you is an actual physical thing he says the Sun is so heavy that it dents it that makes it that makes like a toilet bowl and the earth is bumping around in that toilet bowl because space is actually curved it's curved like this space is curved because the Sun imagine I put something a bowling ball on your bed your beds gonna indent right that bolt that toilet bowl shape the earth is flowing around that toilet bowl shape so it's a pushing force no longer a pulling force so the weight of the earth is pushing down on space exactly it's bending space literally its mass is bending space now Isaac Newton thought lights travels in a straight line only and to prove this Einstein said look light will Bend if I'm right light will Bend so they observed the Sun during an eclipse and they saw that the light bends light does not travel in a straight line though

138:41this is another belief that was debunked I mean how many scientific beliefs are debunked countless are overturned because a scientific fact is not a mathematical fact they're two different things a scientific fact can never go higher than hypothesis if somebody understands the philosophy of science he understands that every single scientific fact it's not equivalent to a mathematical fact one plus one equals two a scientific fact is always subject to cross-examination and new evidence have you ever heard of Thomas Kuhn mmm-hmm is very famous for that right we have a paradigm so during Aristotle's time he had a paradigm he thought the Sun goes around the earth it was an observational scientific fact every day he saw the Sun go around the earth literally he said look guys I'm using my senses to observe the Sun go around the earth and then one day we find out no that's an optical

139:32illusion it's not true that the Sun goes around the earth as the earth goes around the Sun side the scientific revolution every scientific fact we have or theory including gravity because gravity became the law of gravity it was no longer the theory of gravity it was so accepted it became the law of gravity today we don't we don't understand gravity as Einstein understood it excuse me as Isaac Newton understood we understand it completely backwards literally backwards now and that's true with every scientific theory because science is always subject to new evidence coming to light but the difference between Isaac Newton living like when whenever the he lived long time ago years ago versus the science that we're dealing with today like science today but what woo-woo do you see in the science of today oh the biggest culprit yes randomness see it's funny because I

140:19heard his conversation with Sam Harris on randomness which I loves by the way you did a great job I thought it was a great conversation however he was giving you my opinion to contradict your ideas whose tell you like the world is determined but also there'll be random events and I thought well he was actually talking about determinism versus freewill right yeah so the idea being that you don't necessarily have freewill that everything about your decisions and what you're going to do is based on your life experiences your genetics all these variables that are essentially out of your control so this idea of free will is an illusion which is a really complex conversation and I think you could see it in both ways I think you do have a certain amount of just control of your decisions and I think you are also shaped very much so by your past and your genetics and your interpretations

141:08of those events what are those interpretations of those events though and why do you make those determinations who's who's in your head pulling the gears like what question what are you I'm a hard to terminus like I'm a very hard to terminus like I'm like the terminus extremist mm-hmm so but do you believe in free will I also believe in free will yeah would you - which is tricky yes tricky but I think that's what it's true upon both further examination I think that's there's there is something that allows people to I mean what-what takes a guy was 500 pounds and also he goes on a keto diet and starts running and starts walking and then he he sends you a picture on Twitter I lost 179 pounds in six months like holy how the did you do yeah like that guy has some will man to say that that's his whole life and his life experiences and his genetics it's like yes I could

142:03see what you're saying I could see that he he had enough because of his life experiences and that it led to him making this change but there's a tremendous amount of will involved in that and to deny that seems like you're denying the spirit of human beings well let's look at it this way okay real quick let's look at okay let's say a couple of these piece of paper and I'm gonna catapult it okay and it landed there right and now I'm gonna reset the entire universe I'm gonna reset every molecule there every fiber in this paper you're gonna be in the sack same spot the whole universe has been reset and I fired it again is it gonna land exactly where it landed the first time or is it gonna land somewhere else I've reset the universe I earth was the earth every molecule of matter in the every every every particle of matter and the universe has been a reset with the same amount of force

142:56everything is identical I would assume if the same amount of space and the same amount of air you would land the same spot infinitely precisely I don't know well I've reset everything perfectly if infinitely precisely throw it exact exact same way and it lands in the exact same dirt with the exact same resistant it's the only thing I would assume a infinitely precisely gonna lay in the same spot if randomness is a force at work in nature mm-hmm why didn't it factor itself into our little experiment here because your little experiments impossible but that's irrelevant a thought experiment but it's not a create logical universe right but it's not logically impossible right well in that case though with the variables that you presented yes okay but where's randomness where's this for there's no randomness if you're recreating the entire earth in a very duplicatable way

143:48that's not randomness at all it is random thing there is no randomness right randomness is when a human being can no longer compute all the factors and he we use an expression called randomness meaning okay I roll this dice that landed on on seven randomly why because I couldn't compute all the variables so randomness is kind of a it's it's an illusion we project onto the world so Laplace one of the greatest physicists in history okay Simona PLAs he says look look at a billiard ball table okay if you tell me which way you're gonna break the billiard balls if you tell me what velocity and what angle you can hit that cue ball I could tell you where every single ball is gonna be on the pool table that's what Laplace says okay he's a phenomenal thinker and he says why because I'm gonna take that table I'm gonna turn it to a math I'm gonna take the weight of the ball the friction of

144:36the table the the density of the band's the the the the gravity of the earth excuse me I'm gonna take all those variables mm-hmm I'm gonna put them up on this board here all I need to know is how hard you can hit the ball and I'll tell you precisely what every balls gonna land now somebody who doesn't know mathematics or geometry is gonna look at that table when he sees the break to him it's gonna seem random but randomness is really a reflection of his ignorance he's not able to compete with all this information that's why the plasters to God the world is not random to somebody who has information the world is not random that's why he says is very important that's why that's why we're so determinist because we believe that what's happening right now is a byproduct of the past the past caused this happening right now the past was out of your control if I reset the

145:23universe and let it play all over again identical circumstance you would drink that exact same amount of coffee you had today you would have made the same Judas married the same woman you would have the same kids you would have the same t-shirt on right now you would have the mic at the same distance everything would be reset so when we look at the world through the eyes of physics they say the cause of line is complete the cause of line is complete meaning where is this space for randomness or free will we don't factor it in the only time we do factor it in is when we look at ourselves inwardly but when we look at the world objectively as a third person so that there's two views there's an internal view first-person experience we don't believe bread we don't believe in determinism we have free will that's the first person experience third person experience I'm studying Joe all I see in

146:13Joe is billiard balls so when you have a thought it's all billiard balls hitting one another and if I had an infinitely precise calculator according to Laplace I could tell you where you're gonna be five years from now what you're gonna be doing why because I'm seeing one billiard ball hit another it's just take that pool table experiment and make it the greatest pool game in history mmm there are countless atoms there are countless billiard balls striking into one another somebody can calculate the world of physics and tell you where your hands gonna be Laplace says I'm gonna tell you where your hands gonna be in five years from now but you don't know my personal choices I'm gonna make that's irrelevant that's the way he'll tell you that's irrelevant why because he sees the billiard balls moving inside your mind so to speak hmm now Leibniz reconcile

146:55the two because see for instance when I when I'm living in the first person this is my intuition I'm like hey I grabbed that coffee cup of coffee I had this internal experience it's outside of physics so Leibniz gives a great example he says look if I was really really tiny and I would walk around your mind I would see blood flow I would see neurons firing I would see all sorts of biological interactions but I wouldn't see anything of consciousness I wouldn't see your thoughts I wouldn't see you thinking about your wife hearing your child's voice thinking about what you wanna have for dinner I wouldn't see any of that I would just see billiard balls hitting one another however now that I'm having this first-person experience there's something we call intuition this first-person experience itself you're having this spiritual type of transcendent experience what it's

147:47like to have a thought what it's like to be me so for instance I see that cup of coffee I desire the cup of coffee and I drink it science has nothing that has no information about my conscious experience my intuitive experience the science is not absolute it cannot tell me everything about the universe it can only tell me about the billiard balls it can only go so far at that point it has to stop because it doesn't have we don't our senses cannot sense the conscious experience that we're having the conscious experience is only known intuitively so first-person experience so Leibniz says this he says look you look at the world when you study the world we're all seeing billiard balls hitting one another nobody argues about that however our intuition is telling us that's all untrue we have the chat we have the ability to move our own hand desire something grab something eat

148:35something consume something make a choice and he says how are the two how could they coexist because remember in reason for me to accept something as logically true I have to eliminate every other possibility so he found one possibility one possibility that till today is never been refuted he says he calls it the twin trains so picture two trains okay they're going up and down side by side traveling at the same speed they look like they're connected to one another but they're not they're just synchronized every time one goes left the other one goes left one goes up one goes down and so when I go here Leibniz tells you says look when you reach for that cup of coffee the universe had already decided millions of billions of years ago that that was gonna happen your intuitive sense just coincides with it perfectly and he said that's what he calls the twin trains theory that the

149:29correlation theory that your desire to grab that cup of coffee doesn't affect your hand does not move your hand that would be impossible that would be something non-physical moving something physical so he says they're just correlated perfectly when you ask them how do they correlate so perfectly says well God it's like God took the world's the greatest pool shot in history this is likeness this is a he's a he's the guy would invented calculus the binary code you know like all our computers today work because of it because of Lebanon that to me is a hard so yeah people can't wrap their mind around yeah it's a hard sell in May first of all he can woman can create the first computer code he he invented the binary code binary combined era code not computer code but it's based on binary now when he was saying he's saying this that your desire coincides with the

150:24universe having this that seems like a lot of whoo that seems like a bit of a stretch that's the interesting part tell me why well why would the universe have a plan for you and your mom he's saying God he said God directly well so I proved that okay that's a great that's a great that's a great objection why don't you say that it would be god this argument wasn't to prove God this argument was to tell you that this is a possibility why your freewill is true and so is determinism yes because can you deny freewill aren't you having a direct experience of freewill well the only denial of free will would be determinism the only denial would be that your idea of free will is an illusion it's you are really shaped by the momentum of your past your genetics life experiences all the variables and the way you've absorbed emotions and interactions with people and these are

151:17flavored your very being to the point one when presented with an obstacle or an opportunity or a thing there is a predetermined solution in your mind for whatever the situation is that's determinism okay so let's say action rather than solution let's take a step back and look at what liveness is trying to say okay he's trying to say look there's three ways of knowing something and yeah evidence and this is a brilliant human being and not many many many men have have said the same thing throughout history but let's that's just at least entertain him okay he said look you know something empirically through your senses mm-hmm okay you touch fire it's hot then you can know something deductive Lee one plus one equals two via logic then you could know something intuitively meaning direct first experience okay so so let's say let's say you tell me I don't know I've had

152:12coffee tastes great you don't know that deductively or empirically the sensation of coffee tasting great is known intuitively direct meaning there is no there is no interpreter and philosophy have something called the egocentric predicament so right now you're experiencing this entire room within your consciousness right mm-hmm I might be outside of your ego but I'm I'm occurring right now in your consciousness do you see the difference perceiving you sir yeah in my consciousness yes or with my consciousness which is connected to my senses is there anything you can perceive outside of your consciousness with that's a weird say way of saying so it's impossible but perceiving outside of my consciousness meaning not being not conscious but yet still perceiving no when you perceive something it has to be within your consciousness right you have to or with your consciousness right

153:15it cannot be outside of it right so even if something touches your skin you're consciously recognizing that it touches your skin the egocentric predicament is more about your whole universe is made up of your consciousness you could not sense anything or experience anything or get any information outside of your consciousness like a cat was very big on this it's like look this is called idealism the whole world is happening on inside your head right supposedly like for instance you see this cup of coffee they're gonna say like clusters hit the cup of coffee it goes in your eye your eye your your eye gives your brain a signal you're sick your brain interprets the signal and creates this universe around you crease this image the theater of your mind yeah mm-hm can you experience anything outside the theater of your mind very difficult to argue that you could it's impossible

154:04yeah according to all the philosophers in history we we can we cannot this is called the egocentric particular what about subconscious that will be still happening inside your your conscious mind so subconscious is still some what conscious in some way yes it would be happy whatever whatever you would perceive would be happening in your conscious mood just be outside of your standard awareness now the scary thing is is that we have we make a lot of inferences and that's where the rule comes in everything is will you think just you think just everything outside of science is just as was everyone else do you keep saying that but I don't understand why because you haven't made a good example okay well only example that you said was that they changed the way they look at gravity when new information was presented right that doesn't equal gravity was whew it was a magical force

154:53my grandmother about gravity in terms of people that didn't didn't have phones they didn't have cars they didn't have paved roads I mean you're dealing with a very primitive notion of what gravity was it was a very interesting idea that has since been proven to be true false gravity Newtonian gravity okay has been proven to be false but gravity is still real right not we're using the same word for a completely different idea okay so Newton's gravity was magical it was an appeal to magic okay well he is different than Einstein's gravity that Einstein's gravity is what's been proven right we know now that light does bend around the mass of the Sun which is one of the reasons why we have a hard time seeing asteroids that are coming from behind the Sun because the mass of the Sun actually bends space-time around it to the point where it distorts our view

155:48it's our new narrative it's not proven you can never prove a scientific fact past the level of hypothesis it's we I know it sounds strange but really main pass the level of hypothesis if you can prove it in studies and tests and show you still don't buy it you have not eliminated every other possibility okay so it's not the same as a logical fight how is that woo this is this is understood and like in the philosophy of science it's quite it's comfortably accepted it's not anti science like I'm not trying to say anything I know I know you know but you're saying that science has so much whoo and I'm not seeing the woo part look what I'm seeing is the necessary testing and the idea of incorporating new data when changing beliefs and ideas again this is a quite a it's a bit of a difficult thing to wrap your mind off in one day but you have to think about it and

156:40throughout time you you it becomes clearer and clearer okay when we observe the universe all we see is pattern and regularities found in nature that's it we don't see actual physical laws the physical laws are book marks inside our mind we see the same pattern over and over again and then we attribute a physical law but that physical law doesn't exist out there so here's a great example okay okay let me give you a great example okay let's say I'm about to flip a coin okay mm-hmm now you're gonna tell me it's probably gonna land on heads or tails yeah mm-hmm do you know that logically or is it based on your history with coins I know it logically and based on my history of coins perfect I'm arguing you don't know it logically you only know what on your past history okay so pay attention to this this is a little bit weird so we got a where to go slow it's a bit very weird okay it's

157:31very it goes against our instincts okay erase all your history with coins you've never sent a coin before okay and I flip it right and now it turns into a butterfly you've never seen a coin before it doesn't surprise you like well turn into a butterfly and I flip a coin a hundred times in front of you a hundred times it turns into a butterfly now I'm gonna flip the coin one hundred one hundred and one time you can be like I bet you it turns to a butterfly that's how we express science we see the patterns and regularities then we predict them science this is this a little bit this is a good way to put it science is the faith it's faith that the future will behave like the past science is faith that the future will behave like the past so now you've developed a faith that this coin will flip into a butterfly and now you can predict it wouldn't you say that science is the use of measurement

158:30to understand matter and things around us I wouldn't say that it's using the past to predict the future I would say that if you know that fire Mel led at a certain temperature and this is provable and then you can show this over and over again here's what we know about fire it reaches a certain temperature when lead reaches a certain temperature it melts it changes its form whereas if you want to do that same task to carbon-based steel it requires far greater temperatures and then we know that there's variables in matter this is this is not this is something that you can prove and show there's no whoo to that okay water boils at how many degrees I think it's two fifty and something in Sussex one hundred degrees Celsius I don't know what Fahrenheit oh you Canadians with your wacky metric system is that effective effect is it a scientific fact that water boils and

159:32it's a certain temperature yes actually no it's not they can boil water now they can water can resist boiling up to 200 degrees Celsius if you put in a certain atmospheric atmospheric pressure and suspended in a certain liquid if you change the circumstance suspend water in this they suspend in a particular liquid that's that's not the heated or cooled all right it's not it's not supposed to it doesn't affect the temperature of the water itself and now water can boil at 200 degrees okay so you're doing something different to water that's the thing you're taking it outside of the normal Earth environment so the variables also include Earth's environment agreed but water doesn't inherently boil at a hundred degrees it's not a fact but we believed it to be a scientific we believe that water forgets 200 degrees is boiling it's gonna behave this way as a matter of

160:22fact no there are many other things that that that fact has been Demong and there's countless amount of facts like wait a minute is that the facts been debunked or is that when you add insufficient external variables then water takes longer to boil because of these variables playing into yes the the properties that we already observed with water that's why whenever we have a scientific fact there might be new information coming to run to change our view change our view of this fact right this is not necessarily new information what this is is new additional precise more precise information but what you're talking about with water you're talking about additional variables like that's just more science that's not whew okay well here's some more ok this as well because we talking about gravity was wool okay random this was whew okay because we cannot find one instance of

161:07actual randomness the causal line is complete as Laplace would say there's no randomness in the world so the randomness ideas just our inability to calculate exactly leave ibly difficult variables exactly but the it's it's a projection of your ignorance well if you knew you wouldn't be brendham so for instance I can remember who coined the term but they say the man who says the tallest mountain I've ever seen is the tallest mountain he's making himself the measure of truth I measure truth if you take that perspective you're the center of truth I'm truth there's nothing outside of me that's true then you see randomness everywhere however if you believe in correspondence theory that truth is independent of me and you which I think most of us will agree mm-hmm then randomness doesn't exist in that context because randomness only depends on you and when things are

161:53true outside of your beliefs right let's take another classic wool wool term and this is very advanced philosophy I know it sounds crazy okay but this is this is this is what the greatest thinkers in history you know report okay with what they've written now okay okay you see this you see a knife okay let's look at parastatals theory of knives okay so look at this knife I show you a plastic knife I show you a wood knife I show you a metal knife I show you five different knives and you're like they're all knives all of them are knives you point to them and say they're knives Aristotle says look they all share in one something let's call the essence that makes them all knives would you agree the form they all share if I draw a knife on a paper you like he just drew a knife okay that knife on the paper shares something with the knife made of steel no knife made of plastic

162:40the knife made of wood the form there's something about it we call it the essence in philosophy okay the four might be confused with what Plato says Plato had a whole thing about forms but let's call it for now essence okay if you change the essence you change the thing so if I take that piece of that if I take that plastic knife and I melt it you realize found a knife anymore right why what did i do you change that thing about it that essence right now that essence does it exist out there in the world or is it only in your head you made it up well by calling it essence you're confusing me so I would call it the form okay the form of it it exists in culture that exists in our understanding of these objects and rightful shapes it's you it's your your idea of knife conforms to that knife out there that's a great yeah bring it out you can see it great obviously a knife yes right you

163:35recognize it yeah that's a knife yeah I totally agree my model is nice a knife yeah my model of knife that fits my model yeah beautiful but there's some weird-looking knives out there too sure and there might be a knife where we don't agree that's a knight you think it's a knife I don't agree that's I think that's a sword I'd reached a level of sort right yeah we might have a different that that's that's great evidence that's something in our minds mm-hmm not actually objective right right right they get to the certain line it's subjective yeah yeah it's subjective right okay let's look at matter now matter okay it's an inference of the mind just like that the knife is an inference of the mind in terms of subatomic particles and atoms and watch this you see this Cup mm-hmm you see this bottle yes you see this clock yes you made an inference they all share one thing what

164:23do they share all of them share one thing what is that thing they share they share this thing called matter and that's that was an inference just like we inferred the essence of a knife matter has never been observed in nature matter is a byproduct of our mind so when you see a tree mmm you're not seeing matter there's no matter there's only not that I'm inferring matter I'm observing an image right but I'm inferring the matter the matter isn't is a mental construct is it a mental construct or is it our inability to see things smaller than what is necessary for our survival like we can't see atoms we can't see subatomic particles we can't see them with the naked eye but we understand through science that they exist how do you understand that they exist are you saying that matter exists out there independently of your mind it's a matter objective or is it dependent on your

165:19mind to exist it's not dependent on your mind to exist it's too dependent upon your mind to observe you need your mind to be able to observe matter okay so matter you didn't exist do you think this table would exist that I don't know right but what would you guess I would guess that all I know if I'm gonna use Occam's razor you know if you heard of Ockham if I'm gonna go to the extreme with Occam's razor I'm just gonna believe what I observe okay kill all the rule kill it all you have had loved one died right yeah everyone has right do you assume that when they die the universe is still the universe what do you mean still the universe it's like the world is the way they are I mean the way it is there's trees and grass and dirt and this person dies mm-hmm the trees and grass and dirt they don't change they're still the same thing what do you mean the the nature of

166:11the tree would change no I'm saying if you love someone and you know this person and they are no longer with us mm-hmm all the things around you like this coughing up in this knife they stay remain the same they don't change no they don't think why would you assume that it would be any different for yourself if you weren't here why would you think that this table would not exist that's where the microphone wouldn't that's it that's a great argument I'm not saying that it wouldn't that's this is what we call hard objectivity something that's hard objectivity exists without any human mind and exists if all human minds were dead whatever exists still is what we would call philosophers called hard objectivity mmm-hmm now we have objectivity so for instance let's look at George Berkeley's example is that such a great question look at a triangle okay okay picture a blue triangle okay

166:59picture a green one picture a black one picture a white one can you picture one with no subjective elements meaning because color is subjective right color is a construct of the mind so if I was colorblind this shirt would be a different color to me than it is to you right however there would still be one shirt it would be objective to a certain degree okay so a triangle has three three sides three corners it adds up to a hundred eighty degrees we all agree it with you're colorblind it doesn't matter right there's no subjective element - how many points does it have nobody's gonna come in and say to me triangles have three four sides right you'd be like that's not a triangle there's not three angles to that right you've not you've gone past a little cool understanding okay so can you George Burkley says can you picture a triangle without any subjective element without

167:48any color let's call it color to make it really simple really really obvious can you picture a triangle without any color you would have to have it in contrast to something so that you could see it like if you had a say if you had a purple curtain like what we have behind us mhm and out of that purple curtain we cut a triangle mm-hmm even if there was no color mm-hmm if it was just clear you would be able to see you'd be able to differentiate between that shape but she needed that purple curtain to differentiate so we could not have it without subjective element this was Berkeley's point exactly what you said I series are beautiful every objective thing we've observed in the universe has is made up of subjective elements even when you draw the number one on a black board it has to be a color it has to be something there has to be a contrast like you said it's beautiful you said it

168:38beautifully all our objective elements or mental constructs three sides the idea of sight is a mental construct the idea of a point is a mental construct the idea of 180 degrees is mathematical it's happening in your mind somewhere right it's not out there being observed all you can draw it and I can see it and I can repeat it and you can teach it to me and I can teach it to someone else like these are they may be mental constructs they're provable mental constructs that are repeatable so there as a real thing we're in agreement that mathematic is a mental construct and it's true it's definitely by the finishing true soul of a mental construct and GS but it's not outside out there in the world it's within but if you make a triangle on the ground mmm it's in the world the numbers are in your head and the subjective element is in the world there's a two-way street

169:35the subjective element is in the world but it's a triangle so how's it in your head because you when you look at a triangle mm-hmm the subjective elements when you observe them in your mind your mind points out different objective elements of that triangle but it's dependent on your mind by that argument the entire universe is dependent on your mind absolutely no doubt about it if we're gonna use Occam's razor yes not everyday language we use it all comes let's take away everything we're not sure of everything that has a doubt get rid of it okay get rid of everything with a sliver of the liver the problem is it's got matter itself as a sliver of doubt absolutely well when you have subatomic particles that you know they exist in two different states simultaneously they're both spinning and still they're in super states Berkeley would tell you those are images of

170:26subatomic particles they're not lump sum of subatomic particles independent of your mind well I had a conversation with Sean Carroll about it was a physicist and he made it even more muddy to me hmm I thought I thought it was crazy before I talked to him and then when I talk to him he's brilliant he's brilliant he's essentially saying that subatomic particles don't blink in and out of existence it's just we it's the way we're looking at them mm-hmm and that they're they exist in this just bizarre state but they exist in this state in a way that it's very difficult for us to use normal language to sort of explore exactly that's that's the true issue but you know what I might have he's probably listening is like you dummy you know and what I said again you know what what a great one great conversation I heard a conversation between Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris

171:20oh that conversation about truth I love all that would drove me crazy I think we could do better though yes I think they could have done better to the moderator yes exactly exactly I need to get to know each other personally first yes they never met by the way right that's it that's fireworks right that was such a great conversation but here's my question what's the difference between knowledge and belief because a lot of what we said is kind of muddy okay let's make it soup let's make let's make the waters crystal clear as much as possible okay what is the difference between knowledge and belief well the belief that the gremlins are pulling down on people which is why we have gravity that would be a belief no they're both beliefs well dad gravity is not knowledge it's belief okay well we're talking about gremlins Braille was gonna say that's knowledge or that's that's a

172:10belief belief knowledge is if I throw water on you you get wet hmm I would say that's belief to believe yes so maybe one day I throw water on you and you chew you show me that you know yeah water just goes right through you and the reason why you believe water will make me wet is because it happened in the past and you think that the future is gonna behave like the past just like Aristotle saw the Sun go around the earth and he thought that this is gonna happen every day didn't understand I understand it's optical illusion I understand so it's h2o okay throw it out you get wet all flamingos are pink they're not they're not we didn't know that all the time did we went to Australia they don't have the same food source they don't same food sources they're black here they're white here yeah they have a different food source flamingos are not inherently pink a

172:53scientific fact can always be overt earnest you watering it wet yeah but this is not just because it's a yes certain coating right I got you he's got that over his body's not gonna be able to breathe okay how about this you've never seen fire before you've never seen fire okay human being you've been being warmed by electric blankets your entire life okay then you see a flame and you don't know can you know that that flame is gonna burn you if you touch it logically or is it only via experience through history developing a history a relationship with fire it burned you once it burned you twice you're like hey but I think the future is gonna behave like the past so I'm just specifying who know that fire burns you and they've never been burned by fire because they went to school and they learned from people who explained the properties of fire what it is how it works what temperature it

173:44operates on how it's different depending upon the color of it or what's burned borrowed history borrowed history it's still history borrowed history how some you learn from my mistakes of touching fire okay but it's still known via experience for your history well it's known via science if you explain exactly what the elements of the fire are and how it works and what it burns out and what temperature specific things need to burn and you don't have to get burned to know that it'll burn you no no but that's how we discovered fire burns by testing it not right not via a logical deduction okay i series it's only history science is patterns and regularities found in nature we observe nature we see these patterns and regularities right we have no idea what's causing them what wasn't that day cards original idea about science in the first place was using measurement to sort of

174:37understand nature well was that one of his original concepts he's establishing science in the first place no his original concept was look science is doable he said that science is doable no doubt it's called Cartesian doubt an extreme level of doubt he says those are all beliefs I don't have any knowledge what what do I know because knowledge means zero chance of being wrong okay zero chance of being wrong give me one scientific fact you truly trust 100% okay if I take a match and I take a yellow piece of paper from this particular notebook I will light that a match that's a fact okay that's a scientific fact is it no it's a scientific fact but it's not higher than hypothesis it's just hypothesis you have why because every time you've seen a fire touch of piece of paper it burned it so you're relying on your historical experiences okay actually saying there's no scientific

175:33fact possible only to the level of hypothesis you know this is not me talking and this is Thomas Cranmer he's saying look he's saying look we have two phases in science standard science and then a scientific revolution what standard science well whatever the the flavor of the day is let's say today it's let's say today it's evolution and then he says look every every piece of information we receive we interpret it through that lens he called it a paradigm we look at the information through the lens of evolution so it makes sense it fits right here in our story of evolution right and then he says look a small amount of contradictory information is going to pool slowly it's inevitable he says and then this we're gonna ignore it we're gonna sweep it on the rug everything doesn't make sense we're gonna sweep it under the rug and then one day that level of information that that amount of

176:27information that doesn't fit in any way with our theory or current theory is gonna pull and pull and pull and pull until one guy comes around says no we had a backwards or we had it wrong it's this now all this new information fits in the new theory all the old stuff fits and all the new stuff fits and that's called the Scientific Revolution and he says science is always going through a normal phase and then a revolution phase and man is becoming more and more precise but will never reach the level of past hypothesis why because science is based on our faith that that pass excuse me that the future will behave like the past we only know things via experience via our history so when I flipped that coin you have no idea what's gonna happen until I flipped many coins in front of you or I give you mics if you trust me and I tell you what listen I did this experiment here are my

177:15results and you trust me you just take it for granted you you take it on way of authority I agree with everything you said I still don't see where you're saying science has so much woo okay or scientists as much woo as healers or Christmas suckers or crystals in any of us I don't know you know I don't know I just I have a higher standard of skepticism I'm missing the whoo though okay the whoo is when we project physical laws combustion electricity gravity these are all appeal to magic can you demonstrate these these physical laws or are they byproducts are they are they inferences you made in your mind because you've seen a certain pattern over and over again that law doesn't exist out there in the universe it's only a bookmark it's only a name we have for a pattern we've observed in nature it's pretty heavy stuff I know it's only a name for a pattern exactly

178:10that we've observed that exists in nature exactly so that means you can't label anything ever because everything is just a pattern that we've observed in nature everything everything is a pattern there is no there's no logic behind nothing magic we give an explanation we give a narrative to it okay but that narrative is just our paradigm Thomas Kuhn would say that's the shades you're wearing okay that's you look at said it beautifully said look you have pink tinted glasses you can have blue tinted glasses but whatever glasses you're wearing that's the song-and-dance that's the that's the that's the story you tell yourself of why those things are happening the way they're happening okay the truth of the matter is all we're seeing is one pattern happening over and over again so what this is essentially is it an intellectual exercise but the reality of our ability to come up we're not ours

179:00obviously super smart people come up with the very technology that we're using right now to broadcast this podcast means that they have figured things out that they're provable and that you can use science to determine what frequency things need to be how much electricity you need what kind of components can you know take the image and project it through the powerlines and through the the internet cables and all the different things that we need to be in place to provide the electricity to provide the Internet connection that's all science so this is a predictive science is predictive right but this is all these are all things that are not just observable but they're repeatable right the pattern where's the woo here's where the rule is okay our explanation for why it happens the laws of nature are whoo it's not whoo it is our words that we use to describe

179:55repeatable things okay which which which law which force of of nature are you referring to let's pick one look at randomness can you show I don't think that is a force of nature okay sorry with you that randomness the idea of randomness okay pick one because they use it they say it's it's evolution of a natural section via random selection temperature temperature okay okay what causes that I observe temperature like you I believe temperature exists what causes temperature we don't know that's true and we don't know we you and I don't know they don't have any idea what cause you can only tell me about the regularities that's it that friction causes certain things that the magnetic pull of the Sun on the earth causes certain temperature shifts and these are recognizable and repeatable and they understand how to measure them mm-hmm these are all just patterns and

180:52regularities found in nature right and they're giving them names and explanations I see what you're saying stays and explanations can be debunked later on I put them in the maybe by a plausible pile but this is this is listen I know it's frustrating but the philosophy of science this is it the cause and effect we do not observe cause and effect we do not observe one thing causing another we just see a and then we see B it's really it's really it's a bit difficult but imagine this we see and we see B we don't we don't see the causal connection because if we did see the causal connection you would know what happens when I flip that coin you could have predicted it you can predict exactly how much force you're exerting on your thumb to flip that coin I would have to know what altitude we're at to understand what the atmosphere that this coin is going through I would have to

181:40know the weight of the coin I would have to know that the position of your thumb on the thing it's like what you said about the billiard balls then it is true that if you could calculate the exact amount of friction on the cloth in the table the amount of polish that are on the balls the amount of force you'd have to have all the balls in exactly the same spot but this is this is not possible today today if you set up a table and you set up let's say just say nine balls and you told me you were gonna know where every ball was to the millimeter I would say I will bet you a million dollars you're wrong and I would be right every time you never gonna get it why because you don't have the ability to calculate all those very abut it's theoretically and it's also the physical the physical change of the amount of force that you drive when you break those balls varies and if it

182:31varies even slightly it's gonna change the way so a person just doing it with their body it's not capable of that kind of precision if we got a robot to break even if you got a robot to break you would have to have those balls in exactly the same spot and they don't usually sit that way because the cloth has fiber in it and it's wool it's a worsted wool and that worsted wool moves and shifts and bends and it flattens out in some spaces and other spaces it gets dirt and debris and Chong's - there's too many variables so because we cannot compute all the variables I'm with you we can maybe right we can create it to it with a slight margin of error right well this will be about margin of error that's why I'll apply said I'd need a divine calculator yes I would have to even round off the numbers so I'll be slightly wrong right but the argument is that if we had all the variables and

183:22this a big if it's logically possible it's logically coherent with the reality that we see yes randomness is by the wayside it's a figment of our imagination we project it when we cannot compute but if we could this is a objective outside of us right the truth is outside of us it's not dependent on me and you how we see the world so randomness is based essentially on our inability to calculate variables it's not on the actual law it's oh yes yeah when we say that's random it's rule where it is and the strictest way of the of the word now every logical law now this is what hurts people but I love science lover I'm a science addict okay I read all the books I'm fascinated by science let's say I take object X and I throw it at it that I throw it at a window what's gonna happen you don't know I have any experience with object rgx I don't know what object is why

184:15can't you why can't you deduce it why can't you do this what's gonna happen well if I had more information you need experience you need a history with object X you need to get to know object X interact mm-hmm you cannot deduce it well you would write down all these different variables you would find out what people have learned from the past about these variables and that would be science exactly science is the history of patterns and regularities it is not deduction is not logic it's a type of logic we call inductive logic this logic is the faith that the past let the future assume the future will behave like the past mm-hmm so the patterns and regularities we see in nature we say look if these happen often enough we can recreate these circumstances often enough we predict it all happen in the future right we have a faith that all happening in the future there is no

185:06logical reason why it does there is not one single logical reason while we don't fall off the fall off fall off the face of the earth every explanation we give ourselves is just a narrative it is always subject to reinterpretation however with the change in variables like shifting of the Earth's magnetic poles or I gave you a ridiculous narrative the gremlin one right just to show you look I know you don't believe in mind I don't believe in mine either but I'm doing the same thing Isaac did and I'm gonna correlate my gremlins theory as far as he can correlate his gravity theory he used the word gravity he made it he made it sound better he made it sound less ridiculous but the truth of matter is he's throwing his hands up in the air saying look I don't know let's just call it gravity mmm let's this is a way to think about it now his contemporaries laughed at him

185:52they said it's an appeal to magic and then when people started wearing those shades those paradigms are like hey it makes sense if you if you believe if you if you just believe in gravity for a second it explains all this ballet of celestial bodies hmm and how they move but really what he discovered was a pattern and he gave that pattern a name but does that force exist out there well not according to Einstein he came up with a different narrative that fits the evidence even better than the nice acute in it but it's still a narrative it hasn't removed all the other possibilities for something to be true without a doubt for it to be knowledge not belief there has to be zero doubt the meaning no other possibility whatsoever that's knowledge so my so can you know something that's untrue you cannot know something that's untrue you could believe something that's untrue

186:38knowledge means that this is known there is no possibility of doubt that's why I cart was such an important philosopher because gave us one thing that we know in the cogito if you heard of the cogito I don't remember what it is I think therefore I am okay that's what so what is it that we know for sure because because you know it's funny there's two great philosophers that have read that they went through a crisis in their life one of them was Imam Hassan Ali a great Arabic philosopher and one of them was Ernie they kept and both the writings are very like they're it's amazing why because they go through this crisis they go through what do I actually know what's not because they came to this exact same conclusion that hey it's all song and it's all this explanation it's not proof it's all a narrative it's all the point of view science keeps getting refined and changed with more

187:24information what we believed yesterday gets taken off from underneath us mm-hmm today's paradigm is gonna be shifted again a hundred years from now thousand years from now what can I grab and be like this is true nobody can ever take this from me that's gonna be called knowledge so it all comes down like at the end at the end of the long journey of cartesian doubt it was it was so extreme like the the philosophers gave it a new name they call it cartesian doubt they called modern philosophy so philosophies thousands of years old descartes comes writes a book he wrote six chapters in six days and he's like what do I actually know 100% without a doubt nobody could ever question me and he said look I believe in the cogito what's the cogito I think therefore I am so he goes through a long process you know if we have the time we'll go through a little nutshell of it says

188:08look this look when I when I put a straw in a glass of water my eyes tell me that the straw is bent right because the reflection of the water is bent the light the reflection of the light of the water it's bent he says look my eyes lied to me Aristotle thought the Sun goes around the earth his eyes lied to him our senses lie he talks about if I put my hand in cold water then I put it in tepid water it'll seem warm to me but that's just my bias my inability to tell you what my my instruments are not accurate enough so he said okay let's let's put empiricism or senses by the wayside it cannot give us truth cannot give us truth this is what about deduction what about math analytical knowledge one plus one equals two believe it or not philosophers also disagree with a lot of mathematical beliefs so for instance here's a here's a big critique of math okay

189:06one plus one equals two we all believe it but the critique is that one plus one is another way of saying - there's no actual information you ever gave me mathematics is just one way to sum up a lot of information it helps me give you an epiphany it makes it makes me it helps me make you understand what's happening on the billiard ball table right this is my calling 1+1 - you're not changing the objects themselves you know Oh two things always been - yeah it's a tautology you're just explaining to me something that's out there already existing so if I tell you a triangle has three points why when I said the word triangle I already told you has three points right maybe you didn't pick that up maybe I had to point it out to you so Bertrand Russell said it beautifully said look first in his career Burton Russell is a very very uh he's a great thinker he said look mathematics is the

189:59thing were most sure of by the end of his career he was like guys I'm not even sure about math anymore why he's like I think math is just another way of saying a four-legged animal has is an animal but you said that when you said it's four-legged animal and you just repeated yourself by saying it's an animal if I say there's my wife I married her when I said my wife I told you I married her that's what math is doing math is giving you the information again in a simpler form that you can understand and you think oh I've deduced this in from it no actually the information was there in the question Brian some some philosophers disagree with this they said no a math brings you like can't Kant said no math tells you something okay let's put that on the wayside here's another critique one I've personally could never get around they say look he says look all the greatest thinkers in

190:45history this actually had been tamiya critique of logic he says look all the greatest thinkers in history all disagree like Plato and Aristotle you know Plato tutored Aristotle mm-hmm two of the greatest thinkers in ancient history they don't agree with one another they duel they both think they both say you're wrong and I said I'm wrong okay fast forward every generation their greatest thinkers disagreed Leibniz didn't agree with Voltaire today Sam Harris and and Jordan Peterson - okay maybe they're not the top top intellectuals of our of our on earth today but there are there among they're among the elite they don't agree on what is true when you ask them what's truth you guys are talking about truth all day long can you define it for us we don't agree so if logic is something that tells us about the world if it is let's say we grant that Descartes saying look we

191:34can't use it we don't nobody is good enough to use it and get to a conclusion that everybody agrees upon so he's saying look even that doesn't help me so he came up to the cogito he says look he doubted everything like I even went to the point where he said what if I'm dreaming what if there's a evil demon out there always tricking but he went really out there like that's one of the reasons why our simulation theory yeah you know really do like series people mm-hmm considered the potential that not only is it possible that we are in a simulation but that there are many many simulations inside of simulations mm-hmm because we couldn't that's that the egocentric predicament we were talking about earlier is you cannot experience anything outside of your consciousness right so you could be plugged into a machine right now and this is just a big old dream could be and that's why they

192:26cart wanted to know what would be true even if I was in a simulator and that's I think therefore therefore I am because for me to have thoughts I'd have to exist mmm if you doubt the cogito you've proved the cogito gets to object to it you first have to have existence Brian right he refined it I think I think thinkers refined it later on and before him also many thinkers came to this conclusion he just did it really famously he did only did it and one sentence - he did in one sentence he sums it up that's why if you you know I've heard of Occam's razor if you use Occam's razor - an extra if you go crazy if you go to a and an extreme degree if you everything with adult you chop it everything that might be imaginary inferred logical empirical you chop it what happens you have a transcendent experience you can become you if you take off all your paradigms this takes a

193:18very brief human being to do to remove everything that anybody's ever told you and have the experience of the one thing what you would know which would come to it with mystics that's why I believe that there's there's a place where you can get where religion is true and science is faith and I know it sounds crazy but there is a point and I believe in science no me wrong I'm a I can't pray science enough but there is a transcendent experience the human has and that transcendent experience is consciousness itself not the content of consciousness this is where people make a mistake consciousness itself reality your world is nested in consciousness people think consciousness is within my brain it's the opposite your brain your body you're yourself is in consciousness and when we when we get to this point then all our paradoxes disappear there's no more paradox and logical paradoxes

194:07maybe if we have time with our biological paradoxes they never end but when we we understand that our world is nested in consciousness there's nothing happening in the world around you that's outside of your consciousness it's only outside of your ego the thing you you associate with Joe Rogan is also happening inside your consciousness your brain is within consciousness no brain has ever been observed outside of consciousness seeing flow in materialism we have this they have this philosophy called epiphenomenalism that the consciousness is a byproduct of this physical brain we have this physical brain and your consciousness is like a byproducts like a smoke now we ask them how do you know about this physical brain all we know it because of our consciousness so if your consciousness is fake unreal then Souls your brain your brains the reason why we all know about brains is

195:04because of consciousness consciousness tells us about brains so brains are dependent on consciousness not consciousness dependent on the brain so I know this is a bit of a tricky thing but this is what idealism is all about there is no physical object outside of consciousness it's all mental construct this is a this is weak this is a we started this podcast talking about MMA and we ended on our mind yeah seriously this is a serious mind the egocentric predicament not in an uneasy one well it's it's it's a fascinating yet impractical exercise because you will you will do it to the end of time you'll be sitting here debating and discussing and dissecting the very but you know that's also how you gain a greater and deeper understanding of all the things you have no idea what the they are exactly but it's it's still it's still amazing to me like how much is to be explored

196:04about what is real around that's like the world the reality of the world around us is it's it's it's greater than any mystery in existence that's right for me I can't read fiction I only study science history philosophy that's the only thing science history philosophy religion because it's weird enough no because it's they're all trying to tell me they're all trying to explain the world around us and it's such a hard thing to do to sum up what's what's reality hey all these philosophies and theories are trying to sum it up this is reality and to cross-examine them for me is far more entertaining than watching a movie or hearing a fictional story yeah no I get it I mean it's definitely fascinating and entertaining and I like fictional stories too though like I like observing creativity because I'm fascinated by the human experience and I'm fascinating by what people are able

196:54to create out of their own mind something like we were talking yesterday about Stephen King about how amazing it is this guy just keeps continuing to create these bizarre stories and that someone can do that your consciousness and by putting so much emphasis on creativity and your ability to just write down things that never really happened and paint a picture inside someone's mind you know let me ask you this if if he is if determinism is true who wrote those stories like when you retic as past when you write at when you write a story on a computer did the computer write the story no you wrote the story right but if determinism is true Stephen is just a computer and these buttons are being pushed by it past events yeah so that's why I like one student asked me hey you should read a book by Sam Harris on determinism like well can you ask Sam who wrote the book

197:48you know who wrote the book and the tourism he's gonna say well he did now he can't write anything he's determined these are all philosophical questions they need to be explored but they're like you say mind-bending you know very mind-bending for us I'm glad we finally did this man seems like we could do about a hundred yeah let's do it again man often you in town rarely but next time I'm in Vegas for UFC or something I might take a trip over to do it yeah thanks really appreciate it man it was great awesome for Ross a hobby ladies and gentlemen