JRE MMA Show #31 with Daniel Straus & Joe Schilling

00:01Here we go in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, boom! Ladies and gentlemen, Joe Schilling and Daniel Strauss in the fucking house. What up? Joe Schilling's just fucking up my kick machine out there, man. That thing ain't reading right, dude. I mean, I hope not. It really hurt my ego out there. You are lighting that fucker on fire. That thing is not... We gotta get that recalibrated. Joe's in here complaining about a sciatic pain in his hip and still outkicked me. I'm like, what is going on out here? I'm more sweaty. Forget about sciatic pain, Daniel Strauss. You've gone through some fucking pain, dude. You are defying science and doctors. They were telling you it was over. Tell everybody the whole story. Bring this sucker up here. How the story goes, I was out one night. A buddy of mine was having trouble. Needed somebody to go out with him. So I was around the city that night.

00:52And after taking him home, we were leaving the highway. As it split off, I was coming around. You were on a bike? Yeah, I was on a bike. And I had a passenger. So what was called 826 is the highway. As it splits off to 95, I was going around 826. Now, here's the tricky part. Don't really remember what's going on from there. Right. So what me and the passenger remember, we were hit from either the side or from the back. But coming around the bend, boom, coming around. Got pushed into the wall. I woke up under the guardrail. Can't move. You know, nobody else is there. The car is gone. There was not really a witness there until, like, later pulling up behind us. So it fucked me up for a while. I mean, it fucked me up right now. But, you know, getting back to just what it is. The body is healing. So what was the extent of your injuries? All right. So I had in my C4, 5, and 6, I had contusions on my spinal cord.

01:59And half on the left side of my spinal cord, it was pressure so bad that it, like, shut down my whole nervous system, like all my body. So up in my neck and in the middle of my back was just compressed, a lot of the swelling. And that's what caused a lot of the, you know, not being able to walk, not being able to feel the nervous problems, nervous system that I had, or the nervous issues that I had. What did they do to fix it? I've been rehabbing. They wanted to do surgery right away. How many months ago was this? This was in December. This was December 17th. So they wanted to do surgery immediately. And, you know, I'm trying to tell them, like, no, I'm trying to fight again, blah, blah, blah. What kind of surgery? Fusing it? That's what they wanted to do. They wanted to go in and take the, I think the, I want to say the 3 to the 5 or 4 to the 6 or something, fuse that all together.

02:58Which, obviously, there's no rain. And it's a big spot. So I wasn't trying to have that. Looked for, we looked for, you know, a couple rehab places and eventually got hooked up with a place called NeuroFit 360. So I've been rehabbing there since the accident. And, I mean, it's been going great. Where's that? Where's NeuroFit 360? It's in Pembrook Pines, Florida, close to Miami. Great crew. But, yeah, they've been getting me back in the game. I've been, I was doing that extensively every day for, like, two days a week, two hours, or a couple hours a day. You know, two, three times a day. What kind of shit did they do for your neck? For me, first we had to start with, you know, just the fine motor stuff. Touching, feeling, you know, I had problems with my sensitivities. So, like, you wake up under the guardrail. You guys don't remember what happened.

03:52When you wake up in the hospital, what did they tell you before they got to all this stuff? They were like, did you walk? Could you feel? Could you, like, how were you when you woke up? For me, when I woke up, boom. Yeah, so back to the story. When I woke up, when I woke up. Just trying to help. So I woke up and, you know, I had my helmet on, but I couldn't move my legs. My passenger had went over top. She had hurt her hands, so she wasn't, like, extremely, but she had went out, too. So I couldn't really feel nothing, couldn't see nothing. I was just telling them to get my helmet off, get my helmet off. Finally, a truck had pulled up and seen that we were in an accident and what they shouldn't do, but pulled me out. And, yeah, because I was, you know, I'm yelling. You're not supposed to touch anybody. Hey, get me out of here, get me out of here. Right. You know, I was freaking out.

04:44They pulled me out from under it. And, you know, going to the hospital, that whole, the scary part was, was knowing nothing was broke but not being able to feel nothing. Trying to wipe my face or trying to grab something. You just couldn't move your arm at all? Yeah, in my head. In my head, I moved my leg. I moved my arm. Nothing's going on. You know what I'm saying? So you're thinking you're paralyzed? I'm gone. It's a wrap. Like Paul Williams? Yeah. Right. Just like, yeah, I don't fuck. So I get to the hospital. Finally, you know, they're trying to work on me. And I've seen the doctors. He's telling me, well, you know, because of my neck, it's unlikely that I'll be, you know, walking anytime soon. You know, a couple days, a couple weeks go after that. You know, just banging out. And in the meantime, I'm trying to explain to him, I'm an athlete. I know you see this.

05:34I've been through this, you know, type of incident before. You know, I grew up wrestling. I'm from Cincinnati. I grew up wrestling. So I've had neck problems for, fuck, my whole life. You know what I mean? And so I'm trying to explain to him, like, you know, chill out. Just give me some time. Let me work something out. I don't want to do the surgery right now. I really want to. They wanted you to do it in the hospital right after the accident. Right then and there. There's no other, you know, there's no other choice. You're never going to walk again. Do you want to go back to them right now and go, hey, motherfucker, look who's walking around? You already know. You know what I mean? And it's been like that majority times in my career where I've done something, something's happened. Oh, you're not going to be able to do this. You got me fucked up. Bro, he was hitting pads with me at the gym yesterday.

06:14The guy's been sparring. This happened in fucking December. It's insane. It's just insane. Well, it just makes me sick that they always want to cut you immediately when it comes to those things. Any kind of bulging disc issue, they want to get in there. Yeah. And it's hurtful to us because, you know, I understand they got a job to do, but do your job right. You know what I mean? They have one method. Yeah. Yeah. The one method is surgery. Cutting. Yeah. So, but yeah, like I said, I was rehabbing at NeuroFit 360, which is a great physical therapy place down there in Pembroke Primes. And, you know, I've been getting back with, you know, they had me strengthen my neck with just small exercises. Like I said, I started with fine motor stuff. I had to work on a lot of balance stuff, you know. You ever fucked with that iron neck thing? You ever used that thing yet? No, I have not used that. I got one out here.

07:04I'm trying. If you want to mess around with it. It's fantastic. I love it. It thinks fantastic. I love it. So, you're six months out now. Six months out. When did you start walking again? It took me, like, even now, I'm still, like, trying to get the form right, but it took me about three months. So, you, like, relearned how to tie your shoe, right? Relearned how to tie your shoe. Yeah, my hand, my motor, like, my hand wasn't moving as right. It wasn't working as good. It's just everything slowed down for me because of my spinal cord. Wow. You know, that is the most, for me, was the scariest part because I was, everything's so unsure. You know what I mean? And the most recent MRI, when did you get a, have you gotten one? Got one about a month and a half ago. And what does that look good? It looks good. All the swellings went down. The left side is clear.

07:59The only way I can explain it, there's two lines, white lines, and it gets blocked. You know what I'm saying? That's where the fluid's coming down. My left side of my, on the fluid, was being blocked. So, now I'm having a clear line of fluid going down my spinal cord. So, now it's just about healing? Yeah, which, you know, I've been working, and that's the part to overcome. You know, the healing part, the neurological part, the nerves, and all that part that goes with it. It's the body that can only, there's not too much that I, you know, can do to heal this. Other than, you know, eating right, all the simple shit. But, it's the body that's healing. But, it's crazy that you're sparring. Yeah, I do a lot of things I shouldn't do. Now, you're sparring with friends, so you know that everything's going to be cool? I mean, good training partners. Right. I was sparring down at Henry Hoos. Okay.

08:49H-Kick Boxing was training down there. So, you know, I live in for a lot of those. So, you know, that's, you know, working out with those guys. You know, no one's out there to hurt me or try to get me hurt or injured. Everyone's had a lot of respect. They're having you back. Yeah, love seeing me back. So, I've never been in a situation where I'm trying to go super hard. Not yet, but I love to. Anybody who wants to know, you can get it. Let me know. We can get it. So, when you're hitting the bag or hitting pads, you feel like you have full strength? No. No. You know, and that's the thing that I'm excited about. I'm a broken toy that is dying to be fixed. You know what I mean? Because I'm a brand new, you know, I can be fixed in any way. Like, I'm relearning everything. I'm not, you know, it's not like I can't box. It's not like I can't wrestle. But it's now just relearning the, you know. The mechanics of it.

09:40Your brain knows how to do it. But your body's got to relearn it. Exactly. Wow. And it's like the nerve stuff is on the right side of your body, right? Right. It's like the muscle memory coming back. Even yesterday on Sulton Pads from, like, his jab was a little weak and, like, his lifting of his foot or whatever the thing we were trying to do. But once, as we were doing it, once he felt the right way to do it, then he could repeat it. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think that's a lot. That's a lot to do with it. And it's big for me, man. I really want to be back in the cage by the end of this year. Really? You know what I mean? I want to be fighting by the end of this year. And it's not impossible. Well, you've got a great attitude, man. This idea that you love it, that you're a broken toy, and you're going to rebuild it and fix it. It's exciting. For sure. It gives you an opportunity to kind of start again.

10:26I mean, that's been my whole life. My whole life. So I'm just there again at this point in my career. And unfortunately, this had to happen for me to turn the corner and get focused in another way. But, you know, it's just what it has to be. But it's so exciting that you have this attitude. That's the cool thing about it. It's like you're not woe is me. You're like, hey, I'm going to rebuild. I'm going to get right back in there. Yeah, man. I mean. You must be so excited that you could just do everything again. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, first was fighting out what worked. Had to make sure the dick worked first. And it was like, all right, we cool. Walking comes next. I'll continue living. Walking comes next. I can always fuck off my back. That's it. Right. So, you know, yeah. Just making sure I can do shit. Yeah. Being able to live. And, you know, the first couple months was just brutal.

11:22You know, not being able to wipe my ass. Right. Not being able to eat. And did it slowly start to come back? It did. Where you got like some motion? It did. Yeah. Yeah. And I've had a lot of, I think it's stenosis. I think they call it. Spinal stenosis. Yeah. From wrestling. For years. Right. You know what I mean? Of course. Do you do any decompression? I do. A little bit. Here and there. Yeah. Whenever I can get to the chiropractors, I'm doing some. You know, it's, like I said, it's been bad for years. So this is. Have you seen that thing that you hook up to your neck and you hang from a doorway? Yeah. I don't like those. And you just kind of stretch it? Yeah. No? I don't like those. I do the same thing with a rolled up towel or whatever, but hanging from the doorway. It helps mine tremendously. But I get mine, I'm sure, from fighting, but then also like I'll lay on my back at night and watch me. And will you fall?

12:08For like two weeks, my neck will be all fucked up. That shit's terrible for you. I know. Isn't it crazy? You're a professional fighter. You fuck up your back watching YouTube videos. For sure. All right. For sure. But everyone's doing it, man. That's all we do. I know. The whole world is doing this. I mean, people's necks are changing. Yeah. It's terrible. If it wasn't for like, you know, being the awareness that I have now for like my neck and neck injuries, just seeing a lot of things, I'm like trying to posture up and just seeing shit because I'm just, I'm always like this. Right. Always hurting. Always hurting. So, you know, it's been one thing after another for years and that's actually leading into this, you know, this accident with, or this injury. You know. Try to keep his mic closer like this. My bad. I'm mobile too, y'all. So. Are you, how old are you now, Daniel? I am 33. I'll be 34.

13:00I'm at that age where you forget how old you are. Yeah. So I'll be 34 in July. Well, you're, you're healthy and you know, the ability to recuperate from something that's that devastating that quickly shows what good a shape you're in. That must have a big impact on, on your rehab process. Right. It does. It does. I mean, a regular person that has that kind of injury probably is not going to bounce back like that. Not, not as quickly. I mean, being, like I said, being an athlete has helped me tremendously. I mean, with my neck being obviously as strong as it was the, you know, the damage would have been worse. But, uh, being able to bounce backwards, been, you know, being young, being able to, I put my body through so much that this is, yeah, compared to what, you know, it's been through. So, yeah, being young has definitely helped me and trying to keep that, that, that time away. But, you know.

13:53So how will you know when you can get back in there? Are you wrestling yet? Yeah. I'm wrestling, doing everything. You're wrestling? I'm wrestling. Full clip. I've wrestled. Yeah. Wow. Are you not nervous about getting your neck yanked on? Eh, I was nervous before, you know what I mean? But now I'm just getting confident with getting my neck strong, making sure I don't do the stupid moves I've been doing to cause the injuries. So, um, my next step is just being clear, being seen by a doctor, a neurologist. Yes, he can fight. Sign off. Let's get back to business. So. And how's Bellator treating all this? Great, man. I can't say anything negative about them cause they've always done nothing but help me out in situations. You know, I've been with them for some time, you know, and, uh. Two-time world champion. Two-time world champion. If y'all motherfuckers didn't know. If you don't know, now you know. But, uh.

14:49Yeah, they've always, they've always, they've always been fair to me. You know what I mean? That's great. Obviously, you've always had problems here and there, but I've never really had any major, you know, issues. I love Scott Coker. I do too. He's a good dude. It's always been good to me. It's always been really good. I hear nothing but good things too about Bellator and how they treat people. Like, guys who have gone over there have said it's just a huge relief. Right. They get treated with respect. You know, like, they're a little nervous about going over there. Right, right. You know, a lot of people always ask me, hey, what do you want? I'm like, yeah, this is home for me. You know what I mean? Man, the ideal for everybody would be Bellator gets to the same state as the UFC. Right. The same level. That would be ideal. I mean, that would help the world.

15:28Like, if you see Gennady Golovkin fighting Canelo Alvarez, you don't give a fuck if it's Golden Boy versus Bob Aron. Right. Nobody gives a shit. Of course not. They want to see two world champions go after it. Right. That's what everybody wants to see. Ultimately, that's what I would like to see across the board. You know? I mean, I don't think it harms anybody. I think it helps everybody. Yeah. Competition is definitely good. It's better for everybody. Yeah. It's better for the athletes, for sure. You know? And the more money that gets thrown around and the more... I mean, if a superstar emerges from Bellator that's at the same level that Ronda was or Connor is or something like that... That'd be amazing. That's great for everybody. For everybody. And, you know, there's a possibility there, too. I mean, Michael Venom Page is... He's getting a lot of mainstream press.

16:09People are paying attention to him now because of all the crazy shit he does in there. Right. We need more of that. I thought he actually had retired from MMA. What was that? Because he boxed for a while? I thought he'd retire from MMA, boxed or something, nothing. You know what, man? A dude like that would probably retire and un-retire just for the press. You know? Yeah. That seems to be the thing. Yeah. It happens a lot. Yeah. It's good. Speaking of retiring and un-retiring, Joe Schillen, back to MMA. Yeah. I know you competed in the High Rollers event this weekend, which, by the way, Eddie Bravo told me he was so high he thought he was going to jail. He told me, he goes, I was convinced I was going to jail. It was serious. He goes, I'm so paranoid. It was such a cool event. It really was. Explain the event for people who don't know what the fuck we're talking about.

16:49So it was an event put on by Matt Stout and Big Lon on my buddies. They called the High Rollers. And it's a cannabis-infused jujitsu tournament is what they called it. Dudes were smoking. What are those two dudes that slapped each other and then they smoked a joint together? Yeah. They got heated or something in between and then they stepped out with a joint. I mean, it was good. Before every match, everybody smoked. They kind of smoked together. And the whole event was a cannabis thing. There was no alcohol. The vibe was super chill. They played hip-hop in the background. Wow. It was kind of a star-studded event. It was really fucking cool. It was by far the coolest martial arts event I've ever been to. It was dope. Shout out to that DJ, man. He did like eight hours straight with playing the same song. Only twice. Paid it twice. Right. That motherfucker was dope. Really? DJ Bonnix. Was it? DJ Bonnix.

17:40It's a weird connection. It was a weird connection. Marijuana with jiu-jitsu. And it's always been there. And people that don't know, people that don't smoke weed, I have to tell them. Look at it. Here's Jeff Glover and his opponent smoking weed. It's Eddie. Georgie Kouryessian. It's hilarious, man. It's really, really fun that they're doing that, man. But I like it. I like it. Yeah, it was a real cool event. It was real cool. Jiu-jitsu and weed have always been connected. For as long as I've been doing jiu-jitsu, people smoked pot in the parking lot and then went in and rolled. Right. That's, you know. I still do. Yeah. That's my old. Kickboxing, apparently, is the same way. Is it? Yeah. It's how you practice. It's how you get focused. Yeah. I always found that I'm not good at learning when I'm high. Or maybe I get too high. And I can't learn. Like, someone will show me something and I'm not sure where to put my legs.

18:29Like, what do I do? Step over here? Where to put my right foot? What? Yeah, I find that a little bit. But when I'm rolling, if I'm rolling high, then you just get into that zone and you flow. I almost feel like it's like programming. You know, like when they say, like, if you take a, if when you study for a test, you're sucking on peppermint and then the day of the test, you take pepper, you like suck on peppermint. You're supposed to help you remember. Have you heard that before? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I feel like that's kind of how it is with, uh, with martial arts for me anyway. Like, I'm high as fuck and I'm kind of like just, uh, programming into my deep subconscious or whatever. Yeah. Do you think that's my thought? Maybe. You think smoking all the time when you train and then smoking, not smoking when you perform, do you think that has a, like a positive or negative effect? Uh, I don't know.

19:15I, I don't really, well. Well, let me ask you this. That was the first time I. If Bellator said, we're not testing for weed, you could fight high as fuck. What would you do? I'd smoke that day. Ooh. I wouldn't smoke probably 10 minutes before. I got a lot of shit going on in my head. You know, this is cool. This is cool. I don't know. The high rollers have been up, but like. Yeah. It's different for a fight. There's a lot of money on the line for a fight. Yeah. Well, it's also, you know, the consequences are a lot different, you know, zigging and zagging. Right. A lot different when kicks and punches are being thrown. Yeah. For sure. For sure. Well, remember when Nate D or Nick rather, uh, fought Gomi? Nick fought Gomi. Well, I mean, I know. Nick and I, if you asked him that question, he'd be like, oh, I'd be smoking right there. Like, he would for sure smoke. Oh, yeah. For sure. 100%. Yeah.

19:59I bet he would fight better. Probably. Yeah. I'm not a fan of it. You're not a fan of fighting high? No. No? No. I fought once high. What happened? Well, for one, I went through the crowd instead of the walkway to the cage. That's when I knew I fucked up. Oh, shit. Well, how did you do it? Which way? Like, you're supposed to come out. It was at shark fights. Okay. And, uh, you come out and then you go at an L shape and go straight to the cage. Right. I came out. The ushers always fuck that shit up, though. That's happened, like, every time. You try to walk out the cage the wrong way. Like, no, no, I'm going the other way. Anyway, so I came out, just crowd sitting there, just beeline straight to the crowd. Excuse me. Excuse me. Stepping over people. That's hilarious. Got to the cage, like, stepped over the fence, checked me out, got in there. I'm like, ah, man. I remember shark fights. No. That was Bud Brutzman's thing.

20:52Yeah, some guy. Yeah. He's a buddy of mine. Bullshit. Yeah, he was one of the original guys that owned King of the Cage. Was it? Yeah, and then he got involved in shark fights. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody, did they have something to do with, like, shine fights as well? I don't know. Maybe. There's a few people involved. That was a good card that I was on. It had Georgie Pardelli. It had a shoka drill on it. Fuck. It was a bunch of people on them. So what was it like fighting high? Well, for me, at the time, that was my biggest event. And I was fighting Karen Darbaridian. So it was the biggest name I had fought. To me, it was like, ah, fuck. You know what I mean? I just was kind of overwhelmed. I wasn't a jiu-jitsu. I didn't know much about jiu-jitsu. Actually, that whole fight was weird because on Monday, I separated my arm. I separated my shoulder. Wednesday, they called me for the fight. Saturday, I fought.

21:48You separated your... I just thought, I guess I'll get high for this. Right. You know what I mean? When you said you separated your shoulder, like what? Like separation. Like a separated shoulder. Like a torn muscle? No, no, no. Yeah. Up in the, I don't know what the fuck you asked me for. Did it heal up? Yeah, well, we got it like bandaged up. Got it working. Fought with it. You fought with a bandage on it? No, no. Didn't fight with a bandage on it. But the next two days, kind of healed on it. I said, worked on it as much as I can. Went out there. I was in Texas. Fought. And yeah, it was just... For me, it was weird. Like I said... How'd the fight go? One, decision. Like I said, first round, he threw a bunch of like leg locks. Yeah, he's a serious... Spooky. Serious leg lock, dude. That's what I was saying. Like I'm high, leg locks, don't know what's going on. I'm like, I just want to get out of here.

22:40So yeah, it was a bad thing for me. So one and done for fighting high. One and done. I was like, yeah, I'm cool in this. Have you ever fought high? I mean, I'm sure I fought and spar high all the time. Yeah, I fought high. What's your feeling about that? I think it like... Well, for this jujitsu tournament, you know, jujitsu is not my strong suit, obviously. And so for me, that was my first jujitsu tournament. And we just put on the gi like about a month ago when Matt told me about the thing. He's like, oh, you should do it. Mickey Gall, I train with every day. And him and Bamba. And we were like, all right, fuck it. We'll do it. So we started putting on the gi. And I didn't want to make a fool of myself. So being high and having that pressure, like not being completely comfortable, I think was different. But in a kickboxing fight, I could probably be drunk and still be pretty comfortable with what I'm doing.

23:33It's me up next. Yeah, there's a lot of people that think that, and I'm one of them, that marijuana is a performance-enhancing drug. I definitely think so. Yeah. On certain levels. Yeah, on certain levels. I think it could fuck you up. But if you get the dose right, I think it puts you in a zone, in a comfortable zone. Right. And I think a lot of, I mean, for performance, like how it's going to increase your performance is not being super stressed out over bullshit the week of. Right. That's where I find the most benefit. Like when I would quit smoking weed for a couple of days before the fight, that was when it's like, now is when I needed it the most. Now is when I'm most stressed out. That's when I have the most anxiety. When I have the hungriest. I was like, this sucks. If I can just play and just relax. I think that helps. Hey man, are you doing any cryotherapy or anything to reduce swelling? A little.

24:18Like I said, I was doing a little bit with the, the, I'm trying to, like the chiropractor that I was going to. But I haven't done much of it. But that's one thing I really wanted to get into because of the swelling. A lot, like I said, a lot of it went down over the, over the time. But body milk feels amazing after cryotherapy. Yeah, dude, I'm a big fan. And you're doing like super doses of CBD though too. Yeah, a lot of CBD. A lot of CBD. Is that some of that in that bag you gave me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Check that out. That's some Flavorex stuff that, Flavorex. There's a Can't Stop Crazy shirt in there too? There is quite a few Can't Stop Crazy shirts in there too. I texted you this morning. I'm like, is he a medium or a large or an extra large? No, Joe's a freaking joke. I don't know. What are you saying? I'm me. I'm jacked. Fuck. Fuck. I put large's in there. Perfect. Damn it. Perfect. A shrink for you, Joe.

25:11What are these, man? It's a company called Flav. It's a CBD company I've been working with. Oh, is it a CBD pen? Yeah, that's like medicated drops. It gives you like a certain dose every time you click it. Oh. I've been using, you ever heard of that company Jambo? I have. They just sent me some CBD rub-on. Holy shit. Does that work for you? Fuck yeah. 2,000 milligram CBD rub-on. I told you this sciatic pain's been fucking with me over the last week or so. And I rub it on my hip. It's like my ass muscle right over, right here. That's where it travels down. And I rub that shit on before I go to bed. Because Flav has these, they have like medicated patches you can use. They have roll-ons that you can use. They have that salve stuff. How does this work for you? I just feel like I smoke so much weed with CBD in it. All the time that it doesn't seem to work for me. I don't notice it, you know?

26:01And then they have like these droppers. I use that like crazy. Yeah, maybe you just got too much of a tolerance. Well, I just think if you smoke weed constantly, there's CBD in everything. You're hitting both. So like when my coach who's like 65 and never smokes weed and I put that shit on him, he's like, oh my God, my elbow feels crazy. Let me get you some of that. I'll get you some of that Jambo shit. It's better than anything I've ever used before. Yeah, they have two versions. They have 1,000 milligram and 2,000 milligram. And I put that 2,000 milligram on him and it's got like menthol in it. So you feel it like in your skin. Like, ooh, it heats up. Only time I've really ever feeling that is like using it on my neck. Yeah. Like using it on my neck. And I've used it on my hand too. Where I've like the achiness doesn't, the achiness goes away. But on my neck is where I felt it the most, like up in the pain.

26:48But I put, there's CBD vaporizers in there. There's CBD bath bomb. We used that before on my buddy's fight. The day of the fight, we dropped it in the hot tub. Like, this is a CBD bomb. There are some fucking monsters out there that are trying to make this illegal. It is crazy. Oh my God. Those pharmacies. Fuck those guys. Fuck those guys. It's so scary that someone would do that. They would try to spend money to try to make this stuff illegal. And while they're doing that, they legalize like the fucking GMO synthetic version, which is like actually killing people. Seriously, fuck those people. Or fentanyl. That shit's killing everybody. That shit killed Prince. It killed David Bowie. It killed, who the fuck else did it kill? It killed, it killed a bunch of people this year. Oh, Tom Petty. Killed Tom Petty too. Did he kill David Bowie or did he make that up? Something killed David Bowie. Who knows? What's the ball?

27:43What's this? Oh, so that's a CBD bath bomb. Dang. You just drop that in, that's it. It's fucking good. They're not fucking around, these donors. That shit's legit. They don't fuck around. That's the only time I really feel like a rub-on effect from CBD is like I'll soak in one of those. Never did the bath bomb yet. It's good. And it's fun to watch. You drop it in, I'll dissolve it real quick. My ass shit. That's a lot of shit. I got a lot of shit in here. I brought you some stuff, Joe. Beautiful. Thank you. You got some good little, you know, chillies and edibles and stuff. CBD candy. Yeah. Ooh. Good stuff. Right? Good stuff. Exciting. Librax got it all. And this is awesome. I take this on my international flights, allegedly. The key file. Is it legal? Illegal? I mean, it's illegal, but when you put the vape pen into it, it looks like a car key. Oh. So you can fold it in. Night clubs, wherever you want. Look at that.

28:36And just walk right into security. Oh, that's crazy. And then I'm hitting it on the bathroom. Yeah. Oh, that is... So you screw the caps on from... From this? Yeah. Give me that. You put it in there? Yeah, I think. Damn. Give me that there, Joe. Look at this. And these, look at these. This candy. So good. It's so good. So my complaint about the candy thing is, if they're going to have like... Those are CBD, but they have the THC ones, too. If you're going to have THC, like super potent candy, they shouldn't taste so fucking good, because they'll eat the whole bag. Right. You know what I mean? Like, who's going to eat just one? That's very good. That's watermelon. Watermelon. Watermelon. I've said, like, two or three bags at once. Yeah. This is watermelon belts. It's like a belt. Super low-key. Dude. That's the shit. This is the shit. Look at this thing. I love it. And then I think it has like...

29:28There's three different settings of heat of how you... I don't know. I just burn it. These kids today. Oh, you got to turn it on five times. Click it five times. One, two... How's that? One, two, three, four, five. There it goes. Boom. Nope. Maybe that's the heat up. Get it working, Joe. Fucking it up here, Joe. You got it? You got it. You got it going. Maybe it had to heat up. There it goes. There it goes. Burn it. That's good. How is Bellator's drug testing policy? You know what? Standard, I think. You know, we don't have like the additional... You saw the random test, but I get tested before or after every fight. I've been tested most of my fights. I know that. Yeah. So, and I've had people talk shit like, oh, they don't test. Well... I don't know what you're talking about. They test after fights, but obviously there's a big difference between that and, hey, it's four weeks out. Wake up at 6.30 in the morning.

30:29What have you been up to, Daniel? Here, piss in this cup. Look at that. It's terrible. It's crazy. I mean, they have lost a lot of people off the roster in the UFC. The really crazy thing is the body's changing. Yeah. Like, people you weren't sure. You know, everybody passed the test when they were doing it on the weigh-in day, but then you're looking at their bodies changing like, whoa. Who is this guy? Yeah. So many of them just shriveled up and they just look totally different. Their performances are different. Their mindset's different. All right, guys, they were just unstoppable. And so they came in. It's like they're on like a six-fight losing streak. Crazy. Drop two weight classes. Can't get a win. Anybody who says a steroid doesn't work, they're crazy. You're out of your fucking mind. They're not taking it for fun. Right. All right.

31:08You know, they're not going all the way down to Tijuana and buying this shit because it's fun. Something good to do. Something good to do on the weekend. So do you feel like you got a new lease on life? I do, man. Right now, I'm just grinding. Like, I'm fully focused on getting back into the cage. Like, you know, having what happened to me and being in a position that I'm in, I don't really have too many things to go back to. So, you know, having a new lease on life really isn't how I would say it is. It's just what it is. I'm just focused on the next step. You know what I mean? The next step in my career. The next step in, you know, the path and what I've been going through. You know, it's always just something for me. So, you know, I wouldn't say it's a new lease on life, but just a new trap. But you must feel very fortunate that you can recover from this. I do. I do. It's an amazing story.

32:02I mean, I love hearing shit like that. Thank you. Yeah, it just sucks. You know what I mean? It sucks to be in this position, but I'm here. I'm talking to you. Talking to this guy. You know, walking around. So I'm blessed more than anything, but this has just fired me up to just get shit going. You know what I mean? Yeah, you got to feel pretty fucking unstoppable after that. Go flying through the air, slam into a guardrail. Two-time world champion before this shit, and you come back, like, what's going to stop you? Yeah, that's the goal. It's crazy. Get another belt. Get back. Get another belt. Show people I'm not, you know. You're not done. Not done at all. Yeah. You know, so, yeah. I'm even still riding. Are you really? Oh, yeah. You fucking savage. Oh, yeah. Jesus Christ. Just hit 176 the other day. Dude, I'd be in a H1, the real one, a real Hummer. Yeah.

32:50I'd be in one of those bitches, and I'd ride in the middle of it. Right. I'd figure out a way to put the steering wheel in the middle. Fuck that. I don't want to be on either side and strap me in with a race harness and put fucking airbags everywhere. Right. I want this thing to be like an inflatable bath toy. But I'm an adrenaline junkie, so I'd love to do anything. You know, I shouldn't be riding, obviously. But, you know, I need something to steady my mind. So, like I said, training's been going. Something I got back into. Riding something I got back into. And it's pushing me to, like, move forward with everything. How long was it before you rode again? Oh, man. I probably started riding again. Maybe about a month and a half ago. What? About a month ago. What? About a month ago. Oh, a month ago. Okay. Not a month in. So, five months after the injury. Yeah. Probably about a month ago.

33:42If you did it a month after the injury, like, this dude is fucking crazy. He can barely walk. Nah. That's some shit I would try, though. I mean, I would definitely try, but. What do you think makes you such an adrenaline junkie? I don't know. Even right before all my fights, like, it's just been that way. Like, I would always ride a lot before my fights because I had to release, you know, all the adrenaline, all the pent-up, like. Anxiety. Anxiety going on. And that's just how I've always been. You know, I've always wanted to see what was it like to kill yourself. You know, what was it like to, in that way, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? Like, adrenaline-wise, what was it like to do something fun, exciting, push the limit? Get on the edge. You know what I mean? Yeah. That sounds very different. I didn't mean it like that. You know what I mean? There's so many fighters that are like that.

34:29I mean, Diego Corrales, he died in a motorcycle accident, right? Paul Williams, you know, he got fucked up. There's so many fighters that have gotten into motorcycles for that very reason. But it's not just motorcycles. I mean, I've done, I'm into all type of shit. Like, what else? I mean, I love diving. Water is one of my favorite things. The ocean is one of my favorite things to do. You know, I've never been in any situation where I'm about to die or anything. But, you know, I want to do skydiving. I want to do, you know, rock climbing. I want to do all these things. I mean, Joe Shillin's on my page. Me and Joe are on the same page. Fuck all that. I don't even like roller coasters until you drag me on it the first time. Then I'm like, we're going again. Until that point, I'm like, no, fuck that. Do you ride bikes? A little bit. But when I'm down at the ranch with Cowboy, I'll ride with him.

35:18But they make fun of me because I'll go like 60. Once I hit like 60, then it starts to get, I'm like, I don't know. I know, this would be cool. Cowboy is a perfect example. Cowboy will be fucking going down the highway 90 with his hat off, like resizing his hat, you know. No hands, 90 down the highway. He's a fucking nut. Yeah. Or snapping pictures of us while he's riding. Oh, Jesus. I don't want to hear this. He's a nut for sure. I love that dude. I don't want him to get hurt. I don't want to hear that. Yeah. Fuck. He's good at it, I guess. Oh, yeah. I'm sure he is. He's good at fighting too, but it's fucking dangerous. Just like you should dot your I's. For sure. Cross your T's. For sure. You're going 90 on the highway. Fuck that. Yeah. He's a perfect example of a legit adrenaline junkie. Oh, 100%. Yeah. 100%. 100%. 100%. I guess just some people once. I guess fighting is a big part of it.

36:10Like once you've experienced the highs of fighting, I guess the lows of regular life are just too fucking boring. Is that what it is? Man, I imagine that. I feel like you would get. I would definitely. I haven't thought about retiring, but when I stop fighting, I think that's what that'll really bother me. Right. You'll need something. I mean, not like, because I'm addicted to like, not the adrenaline side of it, but like the challenge, like the, you can't do this, like me versus the world. Like that, that really gets me going. I think if I didn't have that when I'm old, I'd be pretty pissed off. You versus the world. Like how so? Like, or like even me versus me, man versus man, like one on one, like no other. It's just, you're the only one that you can, that you can count on in that scenario, I guess. But like that, that personal challenge is what drives me and fuels me.

36:56And that's why I like, I think in my career, the fights that I wasn't supposed to win were always the ones that I really showed up for because that hit me. Where it was, if I was supposed to win, everyone thought I was going to win. For some, on some level, I would not show up the same way. Very common. That's very common. Oh, yeah. Yeah. A lot of guys, when they think it's going to be an easy fight, they can't get up. They don't, they just have this weird. And it's weird because like you don't, you know, your coaches won't let you not train the way. Like you train hard for the fight, you know. But you're not nervous. That something about that thing in your head doesn't click or it doesn't. Yeah. You don't go after the same way. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the thing that everybody hates the most about before a fight, that discomfort and anxiety and just fuck, why am I doing this? Fuck.

37:43That is what is your friend when you're in there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the fights where guys. To an extent. Yeah. Or that's what fucking drowns you at the same time. Could be, right? That's what people like fucking, their whole camp is perfect. And as soon as they walk out in front of that crowd, it's like their coach is like, who the fuck is this guy? What the fuck's going on? But don't you think that, but that's always that kind of person. Like a guy like you doesn't have that. There's not, that's not a thing that you experience. You know, I mean, there's the type of people that crumble are usually like the guys who are just murderers in the gym. And then for whatever reason, under the bright lights, they falter, but they rarely rise. Like those guys rarely win the big fights that they're not supposed to win. They're not the same psychological makeup.

38:26So like something about the challenge or the unknown to some people, it just overwhelms them. Whereas other people, whatever their psychological makeup is, that challenge is what fires them up and gets them excited. Yeah. Yeah. It's weird, right? I think the consistency is the hard part and longevity for the fighters in general in their career. That's what makes Floyd Medweather so impressive to me is for him to be at the top of the game for so long and can make all the money and continue to be at the top of the game and still do that. Yeah. Versus like, you know, the guys that blow up and then, you know, John Jones has trouble. They don't know how to deal with the fame. Fucking Connor throwing shit through bus windows. Like it's hard to stay balanced and consistent through that whole thing. One of my biggest things has been, you know, the mental part of fighting.

39:16You know, getting to the top, being pushed back down, getting to the top. You know, just dealing with that as a fighter has put a lot of stress on like, you know, every time that I got into the cage. Like how I thought or how I acted or how I, you know, performed. Yeah. You did some work with Vinny Shorman, right? Yep. How did that help? Vinny helped me a lot for, I worked with Vinny for I think three years. Two or three years. And I find that. Tell everybody, Vinny Shorman's a hypnotist who's been on the show a couple times. I actually, I was the one that told you about Vinny. That's right. Oh shit. Someone wants credit. I made you Vinny. He hypnotized me. It was a trip. Right. Wow. This is real. It really worked for me. And then I find that as I've grown, I think just like any technique, you get better at it. It needs time to like kind of resonate inside of you.

40:08And I feel, I mean, I haven't worked with him in over a year. And I still, I'm figuring out like, oh, that was the fuck he was talking about. Or like this is, it starts to sink in. So I think it's been, the mental game is a huge, a huge asset. Do you ever work with a sports psychologist or a hypnotist or anything like that? I haven't. I mean, I've worked a little bit with a guy named Will back in Florida. This was some years ago. But something I've always wanted to double in, something I've wanted to explore. I haven't really got the chance to do a lot of things. But that's one thing I've always, like I said, the mental part has been key to me. So I've always wanted to do that. It might be a good thing to help you during your recovery too. Yeah. You know, to just really concentrate on recovery and really concentrate on the parts of your body that need to be fixed. Yeah.

40:54I mean, I'm going to, you know, I really need to reach out to the right people to get the right, you know, the help as far as like, you know, people to talk to as far as hypnotists and stuff like that. I don't really know anybody like that. Vinny Shorman to the rescue. Send out the bat phone. Yeah. I'll holler at you. Yeah. He's probably listening. He'll do it over Skype too. You do it over, you know, you do fucking FaceTime. He used to hypnotize me over FaceTime all the time. And then maybe on fight day, he would call me and like, we'd be backstage. He'll be back in the States in October. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I'll hook it up. I'll make the connection. I would definitely look into him. I would definitely like. But you've been using the lion's mane mushrooms too, right? Yeah. I saw it on. Paul Stamets. Yeah. I sent him that video and started talking to him about it.

41:47When I found out about what happened to him, you know, it was like, I'm sure not as bad as what he was going through. But like, we just bet. Oh, I don't think he's going to walk again. Oh, Daniel was in a horrible accident. And then every time I talked to him, he would just be like real. Like, nah, fuck them. It's going to happen. Nah, fuck them. And I'm like, all right, you need to take this lion's mane mushroom. You need some of these cordyceps mushrooms. Take all the flavor X CBD that you can get. Hit me up ASAP. I'm going to send you some other mushrooms. It's good for your brain. You'll be cool. And look at him. Look what I did. Look. It's all Joe. Look what I did. All Joe. All Joe doing. It is crazy, though, seeing you walking around and hearing that you're sparring and hitting the bag and hitting pads. Yeah. I mean, all these things put together is just what's getting me back. You know?

42:28So, it's nothing's impossible. I mean, I can prove that. You know, nothing's impossible. And shit, you know, doing the, like you said, eating the lion's mane and the different CBDs I've been taking. And just getting my body back to, like, feeling good. Mentally feeling good. Just everything's working, like, in steps. Little steps at a time. Basically. Yeah. It's day by day. So, what'd you say, like, 80% now? I'll give you 75. 75 is good. You know. 75 means you can get to 100. Yeah. You know, like, I'm running. You know what I'm saying? And, like, that was one of my big goals was, like, by, in six months, I want to be running. Nice. Set a goal. Start a run and boom. From a guy who couldn't walk. Exactly. So. That's awesome. It's, it's, I don't know. It gets me in a, every time I think about it, the reason why I stop is because every time I have to talk about it,

43:23I get in the mental thought of it and the process of, from going, laying in the bed, not be able to feel shit, to, you know, dragging your foot after you're walking with a, you know, walker, to being able to pull up your pants now. It's crazy. It is fucking crazy. You know what I mean? And it just, it keeps me, I don't know, it keeps me, I don't know, humble enough to just, you know, talk about the situation and love it, love life. That's a beautiful story, man. I love hearing things like that, people recovering from things. Because it just, it makes you appreciate the fact that you are all healthy. Thank you. Every time anything goes wrong in your life, it's an opportunity to appreciate what it's like when things go right. And if you can get back to where you were, you'll have a new perspective. I do. For sure. Always, for sure. Are you fucking with that Lion's Mane stuff too? Yeah.

44:15How often do you take it? I was taking it every day. I made a bunch of capsules with Lion's Mane and cordyceps. You made the capsules yourself? Yeah. You can buy it on Amazon, a little capsule machine, make a hundred capsules. Nice. Nice. Got my own little concoction there. Nice. Can you do it? So when you. When I saw on your show, Paul Stimitz was talking about how the, I think it was CTE, you guys were talking about how the Lion's Mane helps find, I don't know if it repairs it or if it just helps like the, it find a way around blockages or whatever with nerves. It regenerates neural tissue. Neural tissue. And I was like, dang, I hit him up with it right away. No, that Lion's Mane stuff is miraculous. I mean, there's, it's amazing that more people don't know about it and that more people aren't talking about it. But anybody that's involved in contact sports, any athlete that, you know, is getting hit

45:08and they're getting their cage rattled a lot, they should be taking that stuff all the time. Yeah. And CBD as well, right? Yeah, for sure. I mean, I just look at it like the business that we're in is really dangerous. And like, if you know that there's something that, you know, guys get punchy, right? Or guys lose their chin or have problems like performing on fight night or whatever. Like if you can, if you can take CBD to do better for swelling, you can take Lion's Mane to repair the concussions and shit that we're getting constantly. Like, I just think you're kind of stupid if you're not actively trying to figure out a solution to all these problems. Have you ever fucked with Kratom? I never, not really. I know people that have. I was hanging out with Simon Rex yesterday and he was telling me like some awesome stories about people that were addicted to opiates. They got off of it with Kratom.

45:59I think it's awesome. Simon Rex, aka Dirt Nasty. Yeah. So good. So funny, dude. Such an awesome dude. He's a good dude. I took eight pills yesterday, which most of the time I was taking two. And then I took four. And then yesterday I took eight. Now I get it. That stuff makes you high as fuck. Really? When you take eight, my whole body felt weird. I was like pretending to be sober. I was walking around pretending to be sober. But not like drunk. Not like reaction time. Like I almost knocked something off the counter. I caught it real quick. It's like everything's normal. Like your body moves good. But you're like, ooh. You feel weird. You feel like, ooh. Like you're under the effects. Like physically. Mentally. It's very nice. Like body buzz. Like, yeah. It gives you a body buzz. But it's great at alleviating anxiety. Like it makes you really chill. It's weird.

46:52It just like puts you in this nice head space where you're just like, ah. Like everything's calm. I think the idea is that it fills up these opium receptors. And that's what people that have had real problems with opiates, that's why they like it. Because even if you are fucked up on it, you're not fucked up like, ah. You're fucked up like, ooh, I feel something. Something crazy's going on. And I was taking eight. And my buddy Chris Bell, he's the guy who directed that Bigger, Stronger, Faster documentary. He had a real problem with opiates. He got a pretty serious hip injury. Had to get hip replacement surgery and was in massive pain. And he has serious arthritis, like genetic arthritis. And when he got his hip replaced and got on pain pills, he got hooked bad. In the middle of making a documentary about prescription drugs, which is crazy. In the middle of it, he got hooked himself.

47:44Just total random, you know, synchronicity. And he takes 10. He takes 10 of those. So he takes two more than I took yesterday for like four hours. I was walking around like this. Ooh. But there's no real side effects in comparison to the other stuff. No, no real side effects. After that last man standing tournament with Gloria, I had three fights on one night. I had like super bad chest. I had this contusion on my chest. It's still there years later. The swelling. Still there? Yeah, swelling in my sternum. And it would pinch off nerves running down my shoulder. And then I think it actually pinched off the nerve root, which is when I started doing the decompression with the chiropractor. And so my left side started like getting like it was noticeably getting smaller. Like it was the muscle atrophies. Because what you don't know is that I didn't know. You might know it, Joe. You know everything.

48:35Is that the nerve root actually feeds the muscle and allows it to grow. Once that's fucked up, then your muscle won't grow anymore. It's when you atrophy and shit. It's very difficult to get it to grow back, too, if you don't catch it quickly. Right. Did you have a problem getting it to grow back or did you catch it quickly? Well, I think when we started doing the decompression and all that stuff, it worked. I mean, it grew back, I think. But the pain that I was feeling from all the shit, I kept getting Vicodin prescriptions. Vicodin, Norco, Vicodin, Norco. And you're literally in pain, so I would take the medicine. But after like two months, I looked at my kitchen counter and there was just empty pill bottles everywhere. And I noticed that I was like really fucking aggressive and like short. And I just stopped right away when I realized that. But I could totally see how that would be.

49:25That could become an addictive thing for sure. I was there for that last man. Because you really need it. You know, it wasn't like I was like trying to get fucked up. I was like, oh, I'm in pain. I take a pill. And then. Did you go to a doctor and get it looked at? Yeah. I went to. What did they say about your sternum? They said that there was nothing wrong with it. We went to the hospital twice. I woke up like screaming and shaking from the pain. And I went to the doctor in the hospital. And they did an x-ray. And they said there's nothing wrong with it. And I'm like, look at the swelling. It looked like a tennis ball. And they said that it was like inner cartilage or between the ribs or had gotten some sort of contusion. You know, somebody gets like hit in the elbow and their head swells up. The man was doing that under the rib or under the sternum plates or some shit.

50:07So there's nothing they could do about it. I just started taking Advil like it was going out of style. And then that would make the swelling go down. And then I wasn't in pain anymore. And the problem that I was having with the Vicodin was it's not anti-inflammatory. So it did nothing for the actual cause of the pain. And I was just eating fucking Vicodin like crazy. So. And then. Yeah. But now I pretty much eat. I take Advil every day regardless for my knees hurting or my toes are hurting or like just years of. You're not supposed to fuck with that stuff every day. Yeah. It's not good. Yeah. You got to do the on a gut health, right? Well, it's just that'll help. I mean, kimchi helps too. Probiotics. Kombucha. Right. I do all that. But it just ruins your gut health. And it causes inflammation. This is what my friend Cameron Haynes who runs ultra marathons. Right.

50:57He was taking 800 milligrams a day, sometimes twice a day. Yeah. And because he was in pain all the time because he runs fucking dude runs a marathon every day. On Saturday, this Saturday coming up, he's running for 24 hours. And his goal is 120 miles in 24 hours. I mean, he's a fucking maniac. So this dude's always in pain. And I had Dr. Rhonda Patrick on. She was explaining about how non-steroidal anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen actually cause inflammation because they fuck up your gut bacteria. And they fuck up your body's ability to process inflammation. And it causes pain. So he listens. And there's connections to stroke and all sorts of other problems. So he gets off of it and all his pain went away. His pain was caused in part by the fact that he was taking this stuff for his pain, which is a terrible, ridiculous, vicious cycle. For how long straight did you say? What's that?

51:47For how long straight was he taking it? He was taking it for years. Yeah. For years. Yeah. Well, because he's been a runner forever. He's been doing marathons and ultra. He ran 238 miles last year. The, you know, the Moab 230, which is just insane. Yeah. Moab 240. How is that even possible? It takes three days. Three fucking days. What's really crazy is it. How sore are you after the first day you woke up next day? Like, oh yeah. Another 24 hours of running. There's a type of mindset that you have to have to be able to do something like that that's just superhuman. You have to be able to just, every step, left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot. Agony and pain. All your toenails are falling off. Everything's in. Yeah, I've seen him post pictures of no toes. Nasty fucking feet. Fucking feet all fucked up. Yeah. What's crazy is a woman beat everybody by more than 10 hours.

52:35A woman who I had on, her name was Courtney DeWalter. She beat everybody by 22 miles. She was 22 miles ahead of the second place dude. That's unbelievable. She's a fucking animal. She slept for one minute and three days. One minute. She slept for a minute. Lance Armstrong. Lance Armstrong's chick. You think so? Yeah, 22 miles? Come on. I don't think steroids help in that world. I think in that world, those people are just, it's just mental. I really don't think it helps. And they don't get paid? They do that? They do it for fun. They do it a little bit. They get sponsors and shit. Cam doesn't get paid. Me has sponsors. Under Armour sponsors them. But not really. It's just because they're animals. I know you can't. Every step I'd be like ching, ching, ching, like thinking about, what am I doing this for? Well, it's also, you're used to psychotic interactions with other people in short amount of time.

53:27Like you're used to like a 20 minute experience. That's a great description. Chaos. I mean, dude, that last man standing was one of my favorite events I've ever been to. I fucking loved it. I don't want you to ever do it again because I love you. I don't want you fighting fucking four times in a night. Oh, man. I kind of want to do it again, though. It's so crazy. There's something about doing that that you know you're doing something like special and epic. Like that was my main, the last man standing tournament. That was like my main focus. After I knocked out Simon Marcus and then I guess after I beat, after the first two fights, going into the third one, like I'm pretty sure I wasn't going to beat Artem, I was too beat up. But I was like just had this crazy buzz about knowing that I was doing something like special. Like this was really fucking cool. Which I like doing. I would love to do it again.

54:18I think that's how those people feel when they're running those crazy ultra marathons. Right. They know they're about to do something insane. I mean, a regular fight is insane. Two regular fights in a night is insane. Three regular fights in a night against world-class kickboxers. And then the first fight you had to go four rounds because after three rounds it was a draw. What in the fuck, man? It's a good night of fighting. I had to do that shit right now. Would you? You look at you getting excited. I'm getting excited hearing you talk about it. Make it sound good. I like tournaments, though. I've always loved tournaments. I've always wanted to be in like a day tournament like that. I said it'd be dope. Now, you're making your move back to MMA because kickboxing is just not what it should be. I think we both feel that. Yeah. Kickboxing is one of my favorite things to watch. I'm a giant fan of it.

55:12And for whatever reason, it is just not caught on in America the same way boxing has or the same way MMA has. Yeah. And I've spent my whole, I've been doing it since I was 15. I'm 34. So all of that time I've been thinking about the same question. You know, it is what it is. Yeah. It's like you can't hold on to it anymore. It's not for me. The sport is going to grow. It's going to keep doing good. And I hope that that continues. But for me, I need to keep progressing, so to speak. That is a, it is what it is. I mean, that's the best way to put it. Because there's no way we're going to fix it. But I don't understand. You know, I mean, I really, really don't understand. I fucking love watching kickboxing. And when people tell me about how they love boxing, I'm like, that's great. Boxing is great. I love boxing, too. Kickboxing is way better than boxing. Right.

56:06That extra level of, you know, throwing in kicks and knees and especially if you go to Muay Thai, elbows and clinch. It's just, it's a wilder, crazier striking sport. Mm-hmm. And I just don't understand it. I mean, when I watch you fight or Kevin fight or, you know, Kevin Ross or Giorgio Petrosian, John Wayne Parr, how the fuck would you not want to watch that? Right. It's so exciting. And then continuously, like, they just don't. They just don't tune in. It just doesn't, like, what the fuck? I don't know what it is. I just don't understand. Does Bellator have real problems with their ratings when they air it? I don't know exactly what their ratings are. I know that they're average. They're not super fantastic on any. So it's below what their average is for their MMA fights. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Man, it's a bummer. It's a real fucking bummer.

57:01Because for anybody who's a fan, anybody who likes watching it, like, shit. Like, that event in L.A., that last man standing, holy fuck was that fun. That was crazy. Yeah, that was probably one of the best kickboxing events. I mean, it was the best kickboxing event I've ever been to. Yeah, me too. The whole energy and the forum just in general, that layout of that was badass. Yeah, that forum is perfect for that. And everybody knew it was a special night, like, that it was crazy. You know, that they were doing this. You know, what is it like knowing, like, how much time do you have in between your second and third fight? And everything is fucked up and sore. And you know you're about to go into another fight. I think it was probably like 30 minutes, 30, 40 minutes. Like, maybe one other fight between you. So just enough time for everything to start hurting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

57:55I guess it was because of the money. Like, I knew that each time I fought I was going to get more money. And that was, like, my focus in the 30 minutes. Like, not wanting to go back out never crossed my mind. You know? Versus if I think if I wasn't getting paid for it, I'd be like, it's cool. That was fine. You know what I mean? So that's why I was asking about those ultra marathons. How do they get paid for it or not? Because I don't think that would be my main focus. You say that, but I think that if you were there, just your competitive spirit would kick in. And you would go, let me see what I could fucking do here. Yeah. Give me another minute. And a nice cigarette. Yeah. Then you're right. Yeah. Let's go smoke. Mile 79. And you're like, shit. All I have to do is 21 more miles. I could do that. Not me. I'm like, fuck this shit. Do you think you'd like to fight in a tournament? Like, old school UFC 1 style?

58:47Always wanted to. Always wanted to. You know, being part of Bellator's tournament, it was dope. Being a part of, like, a monthly tournament. Right. I've always wanted to be like. In a night? Yeah. What's good would, again, you know, find some of the best fighters in the world three times a night. Yeah, that's really what's going to touch you to me. Yeah. So, yeah. There's so many factors involved. So many variables, right? Like, your opponent could get a quick first round knockout. Right. And you could go a three round war. Right. Right. You know? And then you face each other in the next round. It's just. I get the commission's not wanting to do it anymore. I get it. The only place they would let you do it is probably like one of them Native American casinos. It's like, come on in. Bobby Lashley. Come on in. I think the commission. Is the commission a problem? I think they would do it in California. You think so?

59:34They did it with Glory when I did it. Yeah, but that's kickboxing. I don't know if they would do that with MMA. Even with kickboxing, it's wildly, widely criticized, though. A lot of people think that was a bad idea. Right. Well, I think the way they can do it with kickboxing is because of boxing. The boxing rule set is like you get up to 12 rounds or whatever. So, for kickboxing, that's three fights. Right. Right. I don't know how that works with MMA, though. That makes sense with kickboxing. That makes sense. Because I think they probably would have a hard time saying, like, oh, Daniel can fight 10 rounds of MMA tonight. Legally, that's probably not. What's the most rounds of kickboxing you ever fought in a night, other than that tournament? Like, one single fight? Oh, five. Five. Five rounds. When I was fighting Muay Thai, I was always five rounds. It's pretty always like that, right? Why is that?

60:20I think the rule set in Thailand is based primarily around gambling. It's like human cockfighting is what Muay Thai is in Thailand, essentially. It sounds negative, but it's kind of that way. Everybody in the audience is gambling. They're betting, yelling, and motioning back and forth between the betting. So, like, in Thailand, it's a three-minute round, but it's a two-minute rest, which I think is awesome. That is awesome. You ever fight over there? Yeah. I fought for the WBC world title over there. Wow. What year was this? I don't know. Jamie. They play the music? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I fought at Rajadumnin Stadium in Thailand, which is, like, one of the... Wow. Rajadumnin and Lumpini are the two big ones. So, I fought over there. The two-minute rest is cool, except, like, you kind of run out of, like, things to talk about. Like, after a minute, like, my coach and I were just like, so, all right.

61:18I'm like looking at ring girls. Did you fight a Thai guy? No. Both times, no. First time, I fought a guy from Argentina at Rajadumnin Stadium. And the second time, I fought Karapet Karapetian from Golden Glory Gym. Mm-hmm. Yeah. For the WBC World Title. Now, when you fight over there in Thailand, do they still expect Westerners to take it easy on that first round? Because the idea is, during the first round, most Thais, they go fairly light because they're ready for the betting to get established. Yeah. They don't want to, I think, you don't want to come out too strong because then nobody will bet on you or against the other person. Mm-hmm. I don't think they expect that from the foreigners, though. I think just as a whole, they think that the foreigners suck. And, like, they think, like, foreigners won't block leg kicks.

62:06So, a lot of times, you'll see, like, the Thais come out and just wreck the fucking foreigner in the first round of the game. So, yeah, I don't think they're expecting the foreigners to participate. I would love to go back in time and watch Ramon Decker when he first got there. Right. And that was, like, the golden era of Muay Thai in, like, the 90s when they didn't have the, you know. Like, right now, it's the first round they don't really fight. The second and third round they fight. And the fourth round they may or may not fight depending on who won the first two. They take it off because they. And in the fifth round they do nothing. Really? Yeah. I mean, not nothing, but almost nothing. They're not really trying to win. Because they know they're going to fight in a week. Right. And then, like, in the golden era it was, like, when, like, those guys would come out and just, it was the prime time.

62:55And everybody would fight every round. And it was, supposedly it was better. Those Ramon Decker fights. Anybody who doesn't know anything about Muay Thai, go on YouTube right now and watch Ramon Decker's. And watch Chaos. Mm-hmm. That dude. He fought guys who was his size, too. That was what was interesting about him. It's, like, he was a small guy. It wasn't, like, a big guy who was going over there to fight the Thais. Right. He was their size. Yeah. And he fought, like, the top, top, top guys in, like, their prime, which is pretty rare. Now you see, like, Sam Chai's super famous. But, like, Sam Chai is, like, the celebrity guy who's fighting, like, the older, heavier Thais. Like, the top Thais right now in Thailand are, like, 120 pounds, 115 pounds. Mm-hmm. And they're, like, 16 years old. Those are, like, the top guys. Right.

63:45Then you build a name where you're a big enough name that the foreigners know about you and the rest of the world. And they market you, and then you fight, you know. Yeah. You go to America, and you fight in America, and you go to wherever. So he's, like, Sam Chai, Bukow, those guys. He's fighting constantly, and he seems to be fighting on the road a lot. He'll go to these weird places and fight some dude who looks like he's in real trouble almost immediately. Right. You know? Yeah. Well, they're, like, oh, we're going to bring Sam Chai over for this fight. And they're, like, oh, we've got to fight somebody. Right. It's hard to. And then a lot of times the Thais don't fight each other. Like, it's very rare that you'll see outside of, like, a Thai stadium, you know, you're hardly, you're not going to see Yahtzee, Klai fight, Bukow, or, like, a Thai versus Thai. Right.

64:31They want the Thais to kill the foreigners and then still all be on the same team. Well, Sam Chai's got such an interesting style, too, because if you looked at him, if you only saw, like, a silhouette and you saw him move around, you'd go immediately, oh, that's Sam Chai. You could tell, like, instantly. Yeah. He's constantly moving, shuffling his feet, switching back and forth, real light on his feet. He just moves different than everybody else. And he does, like, the old Moe Buran. So, Moe Buran was, like, the original martial art that turned into Muay Thai. If you watch, like, the old Tony John, like, Ang Bak, where they, like, whatever, and they run up on your leg and, like, drop an elbow on your head. Right. There's, like, the Moe Buran stuff. And, like, a lot of the techniques that Sam Chai does, like the cartwheel kick or, like, the games that he plays.

65:13Lurt Salah is another one that's really similar to him. He's from the watch. Did you see when they let Lurt Salah fight in Lion Fight against a dude with zero fights? Yeah. They let him fight a dude with zero fights. The dude had zero Muay Thai fights. And Lurt Salah is, like, over 400. Yeah. He got... Top of the top. And he head kicked this dude into another dimension. But it was one of those things where you... It was inevitable from the first minute of the first round. You're, like, this guy was an MMA fighter. Not a bad fighter. But just doesn't belong in there with Lurt Salah. Right. It was ridiculous. Yeah. And when I put it online, the police don't ever do that again. They're, like, oh, Conor McGregor's gonna fight Floyd Mayweather. Yeah, that's for $100 million, bro. Yeah. Kind of different. Pretty sure Lion Fight didn't pay that guy anywhere close to that.

66:02Pretty sure that guy got his head knocked off for $1,000. And it wasn't the same. That guy's not Conor McGregor either. Yeah. You know? Right. I mean, if Conor McGregor fought Lurt Salah in an MMA fight or a Muay Thai fight, I'd go, okay, let's see what happens. You know? I mean, I don't think he's gonna win. But that might be interesting. But, you know, seeing those guys and the real high-level guys and seeing, like, what they're able to do, seeing the way they move. And it's so important for, especially for MMA guys that don't understand the levels of striking. Right. That there's, when guys are just striking, there are just, there's some elite upon elite upon elite levels. Mm-hmm. You know? I mean, it's, um... It's like a black belt versus a blue belt. Yeah. You'd be, like, a really badass blue belt. And then you, like, go to the black belt and you're just completely lost. Like, it's not even close.

66:53You're just getting dominated. Yeah. You just get shut down. You know? Or, like, you're a good high school wrestler and you go against, like, a world champion. Yeah. It's not gonna happen. Yeah. That's, I mean, one of the more unique things about combat sports is that there are these deep, deep levels. And you don't, you know, sometimes you need to see, like, a guy like Khabib Nurmagomedov is a perfect example. But you gotta see him fight against guys who you know are badass and see him smush them. Right. Just to see the difference. Right. Yeah. To realize, like, where this guy's at. Because he's not doing anything. It's not like he's doing jump 360 wheel kicks in the air that nobody else can do. He's doing things that everybody else does. He's just doing them at a level that no one else is doing it at. That's crazy. His wrestling is, like, ten times the level of, like, a lot of wrestlers I've seen. Khabib?

67:43Yeah. Have you ever trained with him? Never trained with him. But he just, he impressed me with, like, you know, watching him fight. Who was the best wrestler at American Top Team when you were there? Who would you think? Who do you think is the best wrestler you trained with? I would have, I mean, wasn't a fighter. Had to be Brownie. I mean, Brownie's a dog. So, just coach-wise, he was just. What's his name? Mike Brownie. Where's he out of? Brownie. Mike Brownie. No, where's he out of? ATT. No, but where, was he a college wrestler? No, no, no, no. I'm saying Mike Brownie. Not a fighter. Was a coach. Mike Brownie was probably the best wrestler I had. Oh, the coach was? Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Mike Brownie just had his hands, his movement, his strength. He's just a dog. And he wasn't a fighter? No. Just coaching wrestling? Mike Brownie. Yeah. But he had a college career, too, though. Yeah, where'd he go?

68:40I think he was in Boston, maybe? Or where was Mike Brownie from? Up north somewhere? So he's never had any MMA fights? No, Brownie has, yeah. How many? Fuck, fuck, fuck, no. Fought for the UFC, fought for a fucking, what was that before UFC? What was that? Young, beat Uriah. WEC? Yeah, WEC. Had a good career. Oh, Mike Brown, you're saying? Brownie, yeah. You're saying Brownie. It's Mike Brown. Brownie. I was like, who's this Brownie guy? Yeah, that's what I said. I'm like, who the fuck is he talking about? And I thought I was strong, so I still don't know what the fuck he said. I was confused. I'm like, he fought for the UFC. I'm going through my Rolodex. Mike Browning. Browning? Browning. Who's Browning? Yeah, what the fuck is he talking about? No, Mike Brown's a beast. He was a bad motherfucker in his day. Cool motherfucker, too. Very good dude. When I was down at 8th D, he was probably the favorite person I fuck with.

69:36Well, he's a great coach now, too. He was in Colby Covington's corner this weekend, and he told me after the fight, he's like, dude, this kid's cardio is insane. He's like, it's insane. He goes, I think it might be just a natural gift that he has. I mean, he trains really, really hard, but he said his cardio is just off the charts. Yeah, interesting. It's funny how much attention he's, I don't know if he wasn't that good before, but it seems like he got a ton of fucking attention as soon as he started talking shit. Oh, for sure. I mean, the talking shit. I just organized the champ or interim. Yeah. Well, the talking shit got him to the dance, but beating Maya the way he beat Maya, everybody had to open their eyes up and go, huh? But a lot of people had doubts. They were like, Dos Anjos is a fucking straight up assassin.

70:19He's going in there against a guy who fucked up Robbie Lawler, a guy who merced Neil Magny. Like, how's he going to beat this guy? And he beat the shit out of him. He literally beat him every round. It was crazy. Like, he, watching, I mean, maybe you could give the first round to Dos Anjos, and, you know, he was always a threat because he's still got power, but Colby's just on, and it was like Nick Diaz style. Just pop, pop, constant, constant attack. Constant kicking him, constant punching him. I was very impressed. Very impressed. I have to go back and watch it. I didn't see it, so I can't really see anything. Very impressive, man. The most impressive thing was the pace he put on him because Dos Anjos is known for his cardio. And he had a real problem with that cardio when he was at 155 because he had diminished his body so much.

71:02And then he moves up to 170, and you're like, well, now he literally doubled his output. If you look at the strikes per minute in the 155-pound division and then 170, it was double at 170. And still, Colby melted him. Wow. Just stayed on him, kept that heat on him. It was crazy. That's impressive. Very impressive. But now he's got Tyron so mad. Tyron wants to fucking kill him. That's a different person. Why's Tyron so mad? Because he hates him. All the shit talking Colby's been doing. He did interviews with people. He told them, don't bring up Colby's name. I don't want you to even bring up his name. Because he didn't want Colby getting any attention. But now it's too late. You know, now he's got... Tyron doesn't want anyone's name other than his brought up. Ever. All the time. On any show. Ever. Period. Ever. They're going to fight now. Ever. They're going to fight now. Yeah.

71:52He should be happy that guy talks a lot of shit now. Because that's what's going to make him money. Right. It's good for both of them. Fuck yeah. It's good for both of them. How do you feel about shit talking? I was never a shit talking butt. Because I never wanted to be that guy that talks shit and come back it up. So I like when people talk shit because I'm going to beat your ass anyways. But, you know, it works for some. It doesn't. Like I said, for me, I was never one of those guys. But it has been one of those things that, like, you see every couple years, it's those one guy that stands out from talking shit. And it's like, ah, it works for him. Then you start to see everybody try to trickle it. Right. Well, I think Connor did that for a lot of people. But Colby's saying some hilarious shit. I'm going to take this belt and bring it to Donald Trump. Like you're doing some shit to piss some people off.

72:41Fucking, it's fucking funny though, man. It works. I mean, it's the same thing Chael did. Right? Exactly. Chael was like, it's obviously fun. Like, just, it's obviously bullshit, but it fucking works. Yeah. Exactly. But. Chael's still the best in my opinion. See, the manner you make me get. I could watch him talk about anything. Yeah. I just thought I was fucking, I really like watching him. Well, he's a smart dude. He's really good. Yeah. His little, his Instagram videos that he does in his car, they were fucking great. Yeah. They're excellent. Yeah. Fucking great. I would take a class from Chael on how to like. How to talk shit? How to do that shit. I would totally do it. Yeah. Man, when he was fighting Anderson Silva, I mean, those, those were the glory days of shit talking in MMA. He opened up the door for everybody. Oh, they're feeding the Noguera brothers a carrot. Yeah. Plus a carrot. Oh my God. It's so good.

73:25They thought a bus was a donkey. I didn't know that they had the internet there. I swear I didn't know. I thought it was on a private forum, the internet. I didn't know they had it there. And that guy's balls. He went over and did the ultimate fighter in Brazil. I mean, went over to Brazil, stayed there for six weeks and did the ultimate fighter and coached alongside Vanderlei. And Vanderlei... And they got jumped by Adida, right? Yeah. And Vanderlei got so goofy on the show that Vanderlei lost Brazilian fans. Because Vanderlei was coming after him and Chael was trying to be calm about it. And Chael was like, look, you know, like, don't touch me. Don't come near me. And, you know, Vanderlei comes near him. He grabs him and takes him down. He's like, it was so, it was so interesting. Like watching him turn it all around and have people mad at Vanderlei. I mean, the Brazilians were mad at Vanderlei.

74:14They're like, you're making us look bad. Yeah, perfect. Play the perfect. Play the perfect. Yeah. I mean, there's a time and a place for shit talking. And this is the time and this is the place. It just seems like to make money now, it's such a wise move. I mean, it's sports entertainment at the end of the day, regardless of what anybody wants to say or think about it. Like, I'd rather... I mean, I'd watch two guys that aren't that good at fighting. You know, like the Tough Man Contest, if it's marketed right. Right. The bouncers and bartenders, like whatever. Like, if it's entertainment, it's entertainment. Some of the best fights have been against guys who aren't some of the best fighters. Butterbean? I'd love that guy. Cabbage? Like, those are the best fights ever. For sure. I'm going to start like a fucking Tough Man Contest promotion. Well, even good guys who aren't world champions.

74:59Like when Arturo Gatti fought Mickey Ward. We knew that they were both perfectly matched and they were just going to collide in the middle of the ring and beat the fuck out of each other. But those were some of the classic boxing matches. Classic. For sure. For sure. Didn't have to be for the heavyweight championship. No. No. No. I mean, there's been some amazing fights in the UFC that are similar to that. Like Gilbert Melendez versus Diego Sanchez. Right. That wasn't for a title. That was one of the greatest fights I've ever seen. That shit was crazy. The whole classic style makes fights. I mean, I've always liked... I think that shit's... Two fighters that don't really have too much on the line and talking shit about a fight. The hype behind a fight is what makes fights. Yeah. It always has. Yeah. As long as you can actually still fight. Yeah.

75:44That's what makes it interesting with a guy like Conor or a guy like Colby. They can fucking fight. They're talking a lot of shit. But when the bell rings, they're backing it up. I mean, we were talking about this earlier, but that's what bugs me most about CM Punk was that he has the WWE background. You would think he would at least be great on the mic. You know what I mean? Maybe he can't back it up or fight it. But he goes from cocky and confident, I'm the fucking champ or whatever at WWE to just believe in yourself, kids. It's really hard to get it. Don't believe in yourself. And he has no physical, no physique. It's kind of sad. I just shit on CM Punk. No. Listen, you didn't shit on him. You suck. You were honest about him. You were honest about what you saw. I don't think that's shitting on him. Right. He's a very nice guy.

76:32He's a very nice guy and he's a hard worker, but he does not have athletic talent. He's missing a lot. And he's a showman. And when he was in the WWE, he was allowed to say, I am the fucking man and throw his arms up in the air. And they had it scripted so that he was the man. But when you're in there with a guy like Mike Jackson, who had zero fear of him and just was so casual and just popping him in the face anytime he wanted to. And literally could have stopped him anytime. If he just got angry and wanted to stop him, he could have stopped him at any point in the fight. And even though he beat him decisively, the performance pissed Dana White off so bad the way he was fighting that he called him a fucking idiot and he said he'll never fight in the UFC again. And he won.

77:16So if Mike Jackson went out there and just starched CM Punk with a right-hand, left-hook combination and that was the end of it, they would say, well, CM Punk, you give it a shot. That's it. It's over. Mike, who would you like to fight next? And now it's like, no, you're not even fighting in the UFC anymore because you should have stopped him like what you were doing. He tickled him. He fucking tickled him during the fight. Don't make a joke of the sport. It's already like a joke that if this guy, everyone thinks CM Punk's like a fucking joke. I guess he is if that's what they look. But like don't make a joke of the sport and like not, you know what I mean? Then you're kind of just like poking fun at the fans. I get where Dana's coming from. I get where Dana's coming from too. I'd have starched him. Yeah. The whole thing was very weird. The whole thing was very weird.

77:58Like right away when you see CM Punk holding his hands up and moving stiff and throwing kicks, you're like, oh, Jesus. Like I don't like that being on pay-per-view. I understand that they're selling pay-per-view cards, but pay-per-view in the UFC should be the elite fighters. Curtis Blades versus Alistair Overeem should have been on that pay-per-view card. That's what should have been there. Not what we got to see. You know, what we got to see was just. Yeah. I don't like when. It's like you're playing a trick on the fence. You know what I mean? You're promoting this guy as if he's something. And then it's like sparring videos come out. And it's like, what the fuck is this? Sparring videos are crazy. It was awful. It was like a guy who just showed how to spar. It was awful. Awful. It's like you took a dude who's no wrestling background, no nothing. And you're like, all right, this one I want you to do.

78:44This is a jab. This is a right hand. When you throw a kick, I want you to pivot your hips. Go ahead and spar. I mean, he doesn't have the ability to move his body right. There's a lot of guys you could take out there that are track and field guys or football players. And you could get them to fight better than him in a couple of weeks. Right. Easily. Because they're athletes. They're athletes. They would understand how to shift their weight, throw a punch. Yeah. The sparring videos that I saw was out, I think it was from his first fight. But even then, wasn't he signed for like two years before he had his first fight or something? Yes. There's no way that you're six years deep in the game and you still are that bad. You know what I mean? He doesn't have any talent. That's all it is. He just doesn't have physical talent. For whatever reason.

79:31Whether it's his approach, his intensity, whether it's not his coaching. He's with Duke fucking Rufus. You know? Yeah. I mean, how does Duke feel about that? He talks about Duke Rufus. In one of the pre-fights, he said, how do you see this fight? He's like, oh, I really like a head kick. Duke would love to see a head kick. I'm like, I don't think that's going to happen. Oh, that's so crazy. That's such a crazy thing to say. You know, Duke's a beautiful person. He's a great guy in every sense of the word. He just is. He's a great guy. He did his best. There's only so much he could do. I mean, I'm sure you would love working with Duke. I'm sure he would love working with you. If you and Duke worked together, I'm sure you guys would have a great old time. Because you're Joe fucking Schilling. That's right. And he's Duke fucking Rufus. Let him know. You know? Let him know. But you know what I mean?

80:21I mean, you have to have something to work with. If Duke just grabbed some dude from a gas station that has been drinking beer and smoking cigarettes his whole life and had a fight in six months, how much can you possibly expect? I don't know, but I would rather see that fight against CM Punk than these other ones. Let's find out how that one would go. I know a guy you can find at a gas station, beer and cigarettes. What's interesting is both guys fought Mickey Gall first, which is weird. Did you see his Instagram? Mickey's? Yeah. He did his own pre-fight analysis of how it was going to go. It was really good. Yeah. Well, that was a disaster. When I saw Mickey fight and then I saw that he was going to fight CM Punk, I was like, who said yes to this? Why the fuck would you say yes to this? This is 100% guaranteed brain damage. There's no way you're going to beat him. You don't have a goddamn chance in hell.

81:15You have no chance. And I was saying that. People are getting mad at me. The CM Punk fans are getting mad at me. I'm like, look, this is what I do. My job is to analyze shit. I look at fighters. I understand what I'm talking about, man. This is like, I got a pit bull and I'm going to put him in a cage with a puppy. What do you think is going to happen? The pit bull is going to kill the puppy. This is how it works. Straight up. This isn't like, this isn't, well, maybe that puppy is going to grab him by the face. No, no, no. No, no, no. Listen to me. I'm telling you. This is how bad this matchup is. This is a Brazilian jiu-jitsu brown belt with a nasty back game. He's strong and fast. You look at the matchup that CM Punk just had, Mike Jackson. Mickey beat Mike Jackson in like under a minute. Smushed him. Smushed him. Took his back, strangled him. He's been out here training with me for like three months now.

82:05The kid's getting really good. His striking is getting really, really good. He's fucking talented, man. Really good. And he talks a lot of shit, too. Yeah, he's good. Plus, he's got hilarious walkout music. When he comes out to, oh, Mickey, you're so fine. You're so fine. I've been trying to convince him ever since he got here. I called his phone. It's like, you know those people that have those ringback songs and they're like fucking horrible elevator music? Every time he answers, I'm like, dude, turn that fucking shit off. You change it. Or at least have it be, hey, Mickey, you're so fine. What is his music that he has on? Some trash. It's like, just elevator. Like something awful. Fucking change it, Mickey. Change it, buddy. Change the shit. When is he fighting again? I don't think he has anything booked yet. I think he's calling Sean Shelby. So he's working with you with his striking? Yep. Nice.

82:55He's helping me with my ground game. Who is he working with his ground game out here? Jason Manley and Bamba Vascon Salas. Where's that out of? Bamba trades with me and Jason Manley is, I think they're training at Muscle Farm. That's cool. So where is he? Is he staying in Burbank out there? Is he staying near you? He's staying near me and Eagle Rock. Nice. He's actually roommates with Eve Edwards. No shit. Yeah. Oh, that's right. Eve told me. We got Eve. I love Eve. Getting this little thing going. Yeah, man. He's great, isn't he? He's a great dude. He's a great dude. He's very good on the desk, too. It's interesting to see former fighters on the desk. Some dudes are lost and some dudes are smooth. Some dudes are very good at it. I think he does great, right? He's very good at it. I think he's one of my favorite ones to watch. Yeah. I tweeted about it years ago when he first started doing it.

83:49I'm like, I really appreciate him doing it. But Michael Bisping's very good at it, too. Yeah. I like Bisping, too. Although he and Colby got at it. It was a little awkward. They went after it after the fight. Bisping can't not talk shit, right? No, he can't help it. He can't help himself. I really appreciate that about him, actually. Well, he's a dog, man. His competitive drive is pretty intense. Bisping is, in my opinion, one of the best. He's one of the best poster boys for just hard work, mental toughness, and determination. Yeah. And also being that British dude at the bar that'll have a beer and tell you to go fuck yourself. Exactly. You know what I mean? Yeah, piss off, you mother. Get at. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. He's got problems with his other eye now, too. Has he? Yeah. That sucks. He's got some sort of a detachment in his other eye. His good eye. I thought they were going to fix one. Fix one?

84:43I thought it was going to get better or something. Well, he's got some sort of oil in it that protects it before he retires. And then when he retires, he's going to get it operated on to fix it. But now he has a new problem with his right eye. He was seeing some flash or something like that in his right eye. And he went to the doctor and found out it's got a detachment there. And he's like, all right, fuck this. I'm done. Because he was going to have one more fight. Yeah. And now he's like, I'm done. He did it all, man. He won the ultimate fighter. He won the title. You know. He's been hated. He's been loved. Yeah. And now he's a good analyst, too. He's very good on the desk. He's got a cushy thing going. His podcasts, I think, are great, too. He's doing really well. He's doing good. That is a nice thing. And acting, too, right now? Is he in some movies? Yeah, he's always got something going on.

85:26It's nice that guys do have those other options, too, like podcasts and different things now. There's ways out, you know? Especially looking at what Schaub's done. Schaub has taken it to a whole other level. I mean, as far as guys being able to get out of the fight game and then make a living as a podcaster, he's fucking doing stand-up now and headlining clubs and shit and traveling all over the country. And he's good, man. He's fucking funny. He's a funny dude. Yeah. It's hilarious, you know? It's just nice that fighters have options. Because, you know, seeing a guy stick around when he shouldn't be doing it anymore is one of the hardest things. Oh, for sure. And then you look like all the NFL guys or any pro sport, most of those guys are broke within like four years of when they finish. And, yeah, there's not a whole lot of other options for a lot of the guys. So, I think it's good.

86:12It's nice that we have other options. Yeah. For sure. So, with you signing... You showed everybody the way. There's a way, you know? There's a way. There's ways. You know, especially with the internet, man. There's just crazy ways. I mean, how much money do you think Mighty Mouse makes on his Twitch stream? I would say a decent amount. I don't know how much... This is like the video game? Dude's Twitch stream, and they're not even like the best gamers in the world, and they make thousands and thousands of dollars. I know Rampage is on there all the time. What'd you say? He's playing in something right now. Sugar Sean's in it, too. Bah! Not that we're going to watch it, but yeah, it's on. Rampage does that, too? I think so, yeah. He's a big gamer. He's always talking about it. Is he still active? Is he still going to fight again? Yeah, I was trying to get a fight with him not too long ago, and I'm not sure what...

86:58Well, he's like 290 pounds right now. Yeah, but I feel like for that size, I could do that. I feel like I could do that. I could beat Rampage. I don't know if I'd go for Brock Lesnar. Well, the Rampage fight would be a good fight for you because he doesn't try to take you down. Right. Most likely he's going to try to stand with you. Right. Yeah. Do you have a set schedule for your return to MMA? I'm hopefully going to get something around September, August, late August, early September, I think. And you just decided that where kickboxing is right now just doesn't have enough juice? Yeah, I want to keep progressing financially. And like I said, money motivates me a lot. And if I reach the ceiling of the sport, so to speak, and there's... Oh, MMA's right here, right next door. And yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. No, it does make sense. You say you're 34? Yeah.

87:58I mean, how many more years do you think you're going to do it? Four, five? Four, five. Yeah. I want to make big fights, as much money as I can. And set up for life after fighting, I think. You can't just quit, right? You've got to find ways to market yourself at the highest level to get as much attention as possible so that you're relevant in the space that you pass. And I just don't think that kickboxing is going to get me there. Yeah, man. It's a bummer. But I think you're right. I think it's a smart... If you're just dealing strictly financially, I think it's a very smart move. It's very unfortunate. I really wish there was a solution. I do not know what it would be, though. I mean, everybody's tried. Spike TV tried. They tried with the Paramount Network. They tried with Glory. Well, I think it also with Bellator, you know, maybe I'll come back. Maybe there's a big fight.

88:49You know, maybe Musashi's like, you know what? I think I want the Bellator kickboxing title, too. Right. Yeah. Let's do it. Right. Yeah. But I would fight. If they let me, I would fight fucking kickboxing first, win that fight, and then come back out the same night and fight MMA. Really? Hell yeah. I brought it up. I brought it up to Coker at Armenia not too long ago. What did they say? They just kind of looked at me like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fucking... You can't stop crazy, huh? It's the same way they looked at me when I said I wanted to fight Rampage and Vanderlei. They were like, oh, yeah, well... Now, what is Vanderlei's deal? Is he back? Like, what's going on with Vanderlei? I don't know. I just thought it was an opportunity. When Chael beat him, you know, his complaint was that, you know, he just took him down and laid on top of him. Yeah. Which has been kind of my complaint for a while. So I figured...

89:36But they don't want that fight. No? No. Why don't they want that fight? Well, I think Vanderlei already had his face surgery done once. I don't think he wants to have it done twice. Oh, shit. And Rampage is my buddy, but he just doesn't want that fight. He said he wants an easy fight like Vanderlei. Well, there's a lot of history between those two guys, too. Yeah. That makes sense. If you'd want to... Yeah. It's a big money fight for him. Yeah. He was... Vanderlei was an interesting story, too, right? When he was fighting over in Pride, and then he came over to the UFC. Just a completely different human being. Yeah. Yeah? Just in the Rampage fights, when Rampage fought him over in Pride, and then also a lot of miles on him, too. Right. You got to think of both things, you know? No. Just got me thinking about Felony, talking about, you know, fighting him over... Felony, the fighter formerly known as Crazy Horse.

90:28Crazy Horse has now changed his name to Felony, ladies and gentlemen. No longer refer to him as Crazy Horse. You ever see that fight backstage? Yeah. I did. I did. I've seen it. It's nuts. And I swear it's up and down. Yeah, I beat him up. I'm like, all right. You got to choke the sleep. He definitely got choked to sleep. But that was somebody else, right? That was somebody else. But didn't he... He says he KO'd Vanderlei. He said he sucker punched him and KO'd him. Well, didn't after he got choked out on the video that you see, he fought later on that night and won by knockout, I think. Yeah. After being choked unconscious in the back. And he said he knocked out Vanderlei. Oh, it happened before this fight. Yeah. Yes. And Vanderlei went... No, no, no. It happened before. He fought in the locker room and he went out and won. And then he says he knocked out Vanderlei, punched him and knocked him out.

91:16Vanderlei went out and won a decision. So Vanderlei, if he's telling the truth, he KO'd Vanderlei earlier that night. Yeah, this is it. Here's the fight. This is Vanderlei when, you know... That doesn't even look like the same person. I know. His nose was smashed in. It does not even look like the same person. Yeah. Now he's got like the Mario Brothers mustache. He attacked this dude and he got caught in a triangle. Very danger. Very danger. Oh, that's it, baby. I forget who it was that did this to him. But it was one of Carlson Gracie's black belts. He's getting it, though. Yeah. How big is... How big is... Felon? Yeah, right. Now he got it. Here it is. 155 pounds, maybe. Probably. Yeah, he's out cold here. My height. Yeah, out cold. Oh, they're very nice to him. Right, like they stopped. Look at his eyes open up. He's like, what? I think like... You did a... I saw a clip the other day.

92:47The guys asked you, what's the practical use of jiu-jitsu? And you're like, well, in the street, if we got in a fight, I would kill you. That's like... I think people don't realize that without the ref to stop the fight or even those guys, they stopped him. Like, okay, yeah, let him go. He's already unconscious. Like, that would kill you. Yeah. You would be dead. Yeah. You would be dead. If that guy doesn't want to let go of you, like, you don't. He just holds on until your brain doesn't work anymore. Yeah. And that's a wrap. And that's that. Yeah. It's nuts. That's real. Yeah. That's my friend Eric trying to come up with some excuse to not work out. That's why I said, what's the practical use of jiu-jitsu? If we had a fight, I would kill you. What is this? Another crazy horse fight? No, these are two guys in the basketball court. They got into a big fight, and then he takes it down really, really quick.

93:32He attacked a guy. Oh, yeah. He fucked up, son. Oh, yeah. Oh, he thinks he's a badass, and he doesn't know how to fight. Oh, look at this. Oh, punch in the back of the head. Oh, shit. Oh, look at this. Look at him. He's still trying to punch him. Hilarious. He's taking that leg apart, though, right here. He's got him in a heel hook right here. You'll never play basketball again, motherfucker. And in that position, he's telling the truth. Yeah, right? All he has to do is yank that fucking thing up clockwise, and that's a wrap. Pop, pop, pop. Ah! Ah! That horrible pain of getting heel hooked and not tapping. Ugh. Not the business. Especially that inside heel hook. That is so nasty when it goes across the body. The amount of torque on your knee. This is like no way your knee can hang in there. It just rips apart. I'm good on knee surgeries. Is that that Paul Harris? Yeah, that guy was always doing that.

94:38I don't think that same move. Well, he does outside and inside. But the inside one is just, the outside one, you got a little bit more, there's a little more movement like this. Right. I mean, you got to tap eventually. But the problem is when someone's got you in this way across the body and then they go like that, man, you got about an inch or two of movement. It's horrible, too. It sounds terrible. You can hear the everything pulling apart, snapping off the bone, and people screaming. Paul Harris would not let go either. That was his thing. He would just hang on to heel hooks. It sounds so bad. It sounds so bad. I got a guy with a fucking Kimura. Maybe it was Americana. I'm not sure what the difference is. It sounds like a towel. This is an Americana. This is a Kimura. I think it was this way. It sounded like ripping a towel. I got a terry cloth towel.

95:28If you pull it all apart and the fibers start popping, that's what it sounded like. You can still hear it in my head. It sucks. Did he tap? I mean, after. He's like, oh, it's cool. It's cool. I'm like, that's not fucking cool. I didn't need to break your fucking arm. You could have just tapped, you dickhead. I got to hear this shit in my head all night. I saw a video of a street fight. There's another video where this dude gets a guy in an omoplata, and he's pushing his arm up. You see the guy's arm just give out. Oh, in a street fight? I saw it. You see that? Yeah. It was like Mexico or something, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something Brazil or something. Good groundwork, though. Dude's got his nice omoplata in a street fight. It's always a plus. Right. I mean, the street fight game is changing drastically. People know how to fight. Dude, people know how to fight. Super dangerous. Super dangerous. Take a chance.

96:18When I was a kid, it was like on the playground, it was like flying karate kick kicks and shit. Now they're going to be like rear naked choking each other. Oh, for sure. Fucking heel hooking little kids. Little kids grow up watching Bellator and the UFC and kickboxing. They know what a leg kick is now. They know all that shit. They know how to grab the back of the head. Other kids are yelling, knee, knee, knee. They know what to do now. Oh, is this it? Yeah, this is it. Yeah, this is awful. The dude brings that leg. That guy, the guy on the top has no understanding of what to do with his arm. Here it is. Oh, sir. I'm just going to. Here it comes. Here it comes. Here it comes. Watch this. Get ready. And here comes the noise. It's awful, man. The sound. Oh, there it is. Oh. Look at it. Just laying fucked up backwards on his arm. Oh, don't move it. Jesus Christ. He's just laying there like. He must have been drunk, too.

97:19Because he's like, he didn't even pull his arm out. He had no idea what he was doing. Listen. Yeah. You guys, you don't know you're in trouble. Do you smoke, Daniel? Is that what that is? Cigarettes there? These are empty. It was something else in here. Come on, man. Something else in there. Do you smoke cigarettes? Yes. Yes, I do. How often do you smoke? As soon as I get out of here. As soon as you get out of here? How many a day? I try to go, I don't know. Probably about half a bag. Jesus. You're hanging out with this motherfucker. It's okay. This is part of, you just got to get it. You just got to take it. Just go ahead. Get him, Joe. Well, I'm just looking out for your best interest, man. Have you ever tried to switch to vape or anything like that? I've done, man, listen. I've done it all. Vape. I've chewed. I've tried to stop gum. Everything. I just, I'm an individual. I just, I don't know. You're an individual?

98:16I'm an individual. I'm just one of those weird guys that just does it all. Were you smoking when you were the current Bellator champ? Yeah, I was. Both of them? Hold on. I was. Both times. Really? Damn. That's so crazy. I've been smoking since I was like chewing in smoking since I was 12, 13. There's a lot of TIE fighters who smoke, right? Skarboski, doesn't he always smoke? There's actually a lot of fighters. I mean, I don't have a lot of fighters. I don't want to like put it out there and like put Bleak Bar and Blast, but a lot of fighters that you know at a high level in the UFC smoke cigarettes. I know. I used to try to hide it. Like, that used to be one thing. You know, try to hide it. And then you always, oh, I can't believe you're an athlete and you're smoking. And it's like, all right, leave me the fuck alone. People hear you talk and they go, man, are you an 80-year-old blues singer?

99:02What the fuck's going on with your voice, man? It's the cigarettes. Yeah. They give you that hard living voice. Yeah. There's definitely a benefit and a level to like not hiding who you are. Like I was just talking to somebody about that the other day. Like it is nice that I can say that I smoke weed and be myself and, you know, whatever. Shit, especially weed. You know, I mean, there's a lot of people that have some dumb ideas about what weed does to you, you know, and it's nice that guys like you are out about it so you can realize. Thank you, Joe. Real. For real. It's nice that guys like you are out there too. Pro athletes, though. But I'm a stoner. I'm a comedian. It makes sense. But pro athletes, like seeing like that a guy like who takes care of his body smokes weed. It's not ruining his career. Like the other thing is that people want to think that it's lazy people.

99:51Yeah, that's what bothers me most about the misconception of it is like that you're not a productive person that you just sit around in the house and hide all day. Someday, like on Sunday, I sit around the house and hide as a motherfucker. Not to do shit. Sometimes. But every other day, I'm working my ass off constantly. You earn those days off, though. For sure. For sure. For sure. Yeah, I think it was. I don't know if it was last man standing or if it was in the locker room in one of the glory fights. I don't know if it was between fights or not. Yeah, there it is. That's up in the green room right now. It was like Jimi Hendrix and Elvis, right? We had the same, the four pictures. Yes, yeah, yeah. I got a gang of new ones coming now. I got Steven Tyler when he was a teenager, got arrested for weed. I got him. I got Conor McGregor. Yeah, I got Conor McGregor mugshot.

100:52I got the real Jimi Hendrix mugshot, not the photo that we had on before, which was like his real mugshot label, but the photo was like from one of them Jimi Hendrix experience photos. We got the real mugshot photo now. Wow. That's dope. Jimi Hendrix has some heroin in him trying to go to Toronto with that heroin. There it is right there. Yeah. When someone tried to tell me, Jimi Hendrix didn't do heroin, well, tell that to the Toronto Police Department when they fucking arrested him for it. There's a picture, a meme on Instagram I saw the other day that was Bruto Mars, fucking Justin Bieber, two other Brit celebrities, whatever. They were all smiling in their mugshot and it was like, when you know you have bail money. Yeah, I saw that. They just got Vince Vaughn. Yeah? Yeah, they just busted him DUI. Ah, sucks. Yeah, drinking and driving is so good. I got a DUI when I was 22 on shrooms. Dune?

101:55Shrooms and drunk. Dude, they tested you for shrooms? They didn't get me for the shrooms, but they fucking got me for the DUI. I would think that maybe the shrooms would help balance out the booze and drive pretty straight. The problem was I kept arguing with the guy and he was trying to get me to blow on the street. I'm like, oh yeah. And nothing happening, pretending to blow. And then they take me downtown and I was in and out of falling asleep. And I kept waking up and they had the DUI, the breathalyzer machine, it looks kind of like this or whatever, the actual big machine. And I remember arguing with him, what if it's if I don't blow? And he's like, then you're going to get suspended for six months. And I'm like, and what if I blow and it's a D and it's bad? And I was like, you're going to be suspended for a year. And I'm like, and then I asked him that back and forth like 20 times.

102:40I kept falling asleep. I ended up not blowing. Well, that would make you want to not blow. Exactly. Yeah, that's why I didn't blow. Six months versus a year, that's ridiculous. What do you think? I'm fucking stupid? So by the time you go to jail or you go to court anyway, your suspension's almost up. So I ended up getting off on that because it was, they pulled me over for turning the wrong way on a one-way street. But I just showed that I wasn't, I didn't do any field sobriety tests. I'm not, you shouldn't drink and drive. I'm not, I'm trying to back that. But if you do drink and drive, I didn't do the field sobriety tests. So they didn't have any probable cause that I was actually drunk. And when you didn't blow. And they said, well, you was driving the wrong way to one-way street. And I was like, well, I've never been to that area before. So side note. Technicalities. Don't blow. Yeah. Never had a DUI.

103:30Good for you. You're driving a fucking motorcycle, man. You better be sober. Yeah. Well. Plus you're smoking cigarettes, not paying attention to what you're doing. I mean, with Uber and Lyft and all this shit now, it's kind of, it's pretty irresponsible to get a fucking DUI. I bet it's dropped down significantly because of Uber and Lyft. I really bet it has. For sure. Thanks, man. Listen, boys, let's wrap this bitch up. Thanks for bringing me all this stuff. Daniel, much love. I appreciate you for having me, man. Hey, my pleasure, dude. And best of luck in your recovery. It's a great story. I love hearing it. And just all the best, man. Thank you. Joe Schilling. You know, you're my man. Appreciate it, buddy. And Daniel Strauss on Twitter and on Instagram. Joe Schilling. Joe underscore Schilling. And you know what? I had this fucking plan. I was going to keep saying my Instagram password throughout the whole show.

104:18And I fucking forgot. So Joe underscore Schilling on Instagram. There you go. Holler at your boy. Holler at your boy.