Sturgill Simpson

00:02Yes. What's up, Sturgil Simpson? Dude, you've been on a ride. The last time I talked to you. When was that? Well, last time I talked to you wasn't that long ago, but last time you've been in here. I'm hearing things kind of Is it something wonky? It was boommy almost. I feel like it. Is there something wrong with that? Something wrong with the headphones? Might be just me. Might it be the weed? Is that weed? It just changed. Yeah, it sounds better. Thank you. Jamie centralized. Put some effects on that He didn't touch anything. He's just asking is the fed better. So, um uh yeah. I mean, you're blowing the up, dude. I I have to get this out of the way before we even start talking. It's got It's fascinating to watch. Why is that? Well, because well, it's always fascinating to watch someone who you think is very talented get uh recognized and I think you're very

01:03talented. So, uh then and then becoming friends with you, it's interesting, you know, to talk to you and to see what it's like and see see me see me process it all in real time. Yeah. Well, to see you probably got some interesting insight, I would imagine. Yeah, I guess so. For me, it was a slow one. It was a slow burn. Took a long time in a lot of different shows till it started getting really weird. It was pretty manageable. News Radio. Was that How long were you out here before that happened? Oh, I came out here for a show right before that. I was on another show called Hard Ball. There was this baseball show. So, that was like uh maybe like 6 months before news radio. So, I wasn't out here very long. I came out here specifically for that Hardball show. And things just sort of opportunities turn into other things. Yeah. I think, you know, it es and flows

01:50and comes and goes, but uh the news radio fame was like non-existent. Like nobody ever recognized me ever. But you're getting recognized now. Not too much, man. Uh I mean in specific towns where we do better. Yeah. But it it's most, you know, 99% of the time people are really cool. Yeah. Isn't that the fact? Yeah. That's that's really what's up. 99% of the time people are really cool. And even the 1% are still cool. It's just it lasts a little too long, you know. I don't know. It's the outliers, you know, the the extreme cases that aren't, you know, the 1% of the 1% that could be issues. I mean, it's not even that in the grand scheme of things. I don't feel like I've really blown up that big. You know what I mean? Like, it's I feel like I've clawed my way to the beginning, as it were. That's a good way to look at it. But it's some Well, I mean, what's the

02:43beginning? What's the, you know, what's the what's the top? I don't I don't know. Exactly. What I do know is that there's a lot of people that like will text me, "Dude, have you heard of Sturgil Simpson? Holy shit." You know, even now. Yeah. Even now, man. It's uh although I guess transitionally it's been in the last couple years, three years, but I've been doing this my whole life. um to various levels of thanklessness, but yeah, a lot of years in honky tonks and just dive bars where you were background noise. So, and now that I'm older, I think that's been the best part of it is I'm I'm clear and focused enough and I have enough responsibilities in my life to where I'm not taking it for granted. Does that make sense? 100%. Trying to like really use it as the opportunity that it is to do something hopefully bigger than just myself. M so well being a famous singer you know you

03:41you affect people in a singer and a songwriter you you affect people in a very strange way you know there there's like a an intense emotion that's um that's connected to a song that like really moves you know there's just an intense connection and so um it's I think for someone like you like it's great that you've got all this life experience I think that helps so much man I think if you're a and Justin Bieber type character. Boy, you're almost guaranteed to be Like that kind of scrutiny, you I don't How old was he when that all started? I mean, he's a baby. I mean, I know who he is, but I couldn't tell you a single song, but yet I know who he is. Why is that? Well, he's famous as He's famous as But yeah, the poor guy. I mean, I don't want Well, yeah, the poor guy. Nobody could. Nobody. It's easy to judge and sit back and be like, "Oh, he's such a fuckup." like

04:37that kid has a a very rare and unique perspective on the life experience, you know. Yeah. Look, that kid is doing a splendid job. A splendid job. He's up just enough. Yeah, he's up a little bit, but you know, he's fine in comparison to what a normal person would be with that kind of insane reach like that. Just what what it must be like for him to just try to go through a group of girls. He just he gets attacked like like dogs. They will fight for him. They'll claw at him. What the man? He's only like 19 or something, right? Is he 19? That's insane. That's insane. It's got to be so hard to to keep your together and to have a balanced perspective because his only perspective is one of fame. See you talking about the honky tonks and you know when you were here last time you talked about crazy jobs you had like you worked on a train right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean think about that kind of

05:36Go from that that kind of to where you are now. You have a earned perspective an earned perspective. Whereas a guy it's still hard to feel like when you say earned of like my life's pretty pretty cool now man. Like I get to go out and make art for a living and support my family and and play music. So yeah. No. It's awesome. It's kind of dope for sure. But uh it even even that said, as long as it took to get here and even the last three years, like we toured our asses off, man. Like going in circles to kind of build it organically and uh I feel really proud about that because all you know, no matter what happens up or down, I can I can feel like I'd accomplish something with merit. Yeah. Um but it Well, it's a beautiful time. It's a beautiful time for artists, you know, we're definitely in a moment. Yeah. Right. For sure. It seems like a moment with music, a

06:31moment with It's definitely a moment with standup comedy. We all talk about it. It's like the best time ever for standup. I think country music. I'm still getting over Brian Holtzman, who was the la the guy that did the last set that night. Dude, that I was traumatized. That was an experience, man. And I can't even tell you cuz you guys, you didn't tell me what was coming. We just like, "Oh, you got to go see this guy set." I'm sitting there thinking like, I'm watching this guy bomb harder than anything I've ever seen. He's like telling people in the audience to just start And I mean, but he's like, I couldn't take my eyes off of it. It was amazing. It was awesome. And then after the set, he's like, "Yeah." You know, like, "Holy that was all just genius." Yeah, he's genius. Brian Holtzman's genius 100%. And he people were running out of the room, man.

07:19Like literally this tastes too well. The guy ran out of the room to get away from this thing happening. A vile expression of toxic masculinity on stage. Yeah. Brian does the Kinson spot which is um the last spot of the night. So the last guy on the comedy store, most spots the comedy store. Yeah. last spot at the comic store just goes on from like I guess he gets on probably somewhere around 12:30 maybe 1ish and then he'll he might go till two you know so he's got a long stretch he does whatever he wants that's why it's the Kenison spot how long has he been in that spot well he's the perfect guy for that spot and he he does it on and off he's been there at the store as long as I have been there at the store since '94 I I met him in '94 is it always in that room no he does the little room too that's where I first met him or first met him, he was like this promising upand

08:10cominging guy that would go on in the smaller room and um you know he was like one of the hot up and cominging guys but he always kept like a real job but he's in my opinion he's one of the best comics in the world he just doesn't get a chance to show it to people like we've tried to talk about like what would be the best way to let people know and I think cuz he's he changes his stuff so much I think just putting cameras on him every night filming this the these kenison spots that he does every Friday and Saturday night. It's It's I tell everybody if you want to see some comedy, it's a tough one because to to make people aware, you know, to let them know, you kind of have you almost in a way sort of have to give away what makes it what it I don't know, man. It doesn't bother me. I know. I know. And I think it's genius. I know he's a great guy and it's But I mean, we're not we're kind of

09:01beating around the bush here. He says obviously ridiculously offensive things that he doesn't really mean. It's oh my god. I I have always loved that style of comedy, you know, and he's in my opinion like one of the best ever at it. He's a monster. Just people don't know for whatever. But they don't know because he never left, right? He stayed at the store and that's his spot. He stayed in LA and he always kept a job. He always had a job. He was a me a meter mate at one point. He's had a bunch of jobs like that. Kind of a Bowski type guy. Exactly. But you know, you you got to do it all for him. like someone's got to come along and do it all for him. Cool. Oh, really? Yeah. Let's just take these off, right? Let's be casual, bro. Let's be kissy. But, uh, yeah. You can't wear them in the studio either, man. Really? They bug you? They with me. It's just not It's not a natural

09:52uh you're responding to what you hear in your ears as opposed to the, you know, it's good for some people because some people don't realize how goofy it sounds when everybody talks over everybody. I'll give you three people and they don't have the ear things on. You were talking about before you came in about the fight. Yeah. So with the fight podcast we do four people and we made it mandatory like got to wear earphones because we're drunk and stoned and we're talking over each other. People were chewing into the mic. They don't know how bad it sounds. People eating pickles, potato chips and pickles into the microphone. And it's just like oh my god. I would get these screaming texts from people. stop chewing into the microphones. So, we had to we had to institute the uh headphones policy, but for uh a gentle conversationalist like yourself, it's very easy. Put those aside.

10:48Are you um like when you were touring like all those three years when you were going crazy and and touring like a maniac, have you uh settled that down to more manageable sort of a schedule? Yeah, it uh it would have been fine otherwise. I mean, I've always lived out of a bag really, you know what I mean? And and wanted to be moving all the time. So, like in that regard, it's kind of ideal, but it just the timing was a little bittersweet, right? My son was born about a month after the last record came out. Wow. So about um I was home for that and then basically like three three or four days after he's born I had to go to Europe for some shows and then press started rolling in and uh word of mouth and the record just started selling. Dude, it's like a movie and my you know my wife is um very supportive and I wouldn't have moved to Nashville in the first place to do

11:43anything without her like telling me you can do this. You know what I mean? I'd probably still be working at the railroad. So, uh, when when it all kind of came about, you know, she basically said, you know, we we didn't come here and like you do everything up until this point to not be able to go and because you have to now. You have to tour, right? Um, so I did and other, you know, I think missing out what was going on at home and and carrying some sense of guilt maybe for that because even though like I'm out here, my dreams are coming true. it's providing for my family. But when we come home after five or six weeks and then I've got a week at home before leaving again, I'm just kind of see I was seeing what I was missing in incremental stages, you know, and I think it took a toll on me uh emotionally in a way that I wouldn't have anticipated. So that's kind of

12:30where this record came from. I don't go on that kind of tour, but when I go away um just for a few days, just for four or five days, yeah, it bumps me out. you know, when you come back home, this rush of love, you know, that's a good way to put it. It's what it's like. It's like this when you when I come home, like I just got back from the road. I was in Boston this weekend. I come home on Sunday and when your kids run up to you and jump in your arms and you're carrying them and talking to them, you know, it's like it's very hard to describe for anybody that like doesn't have any children or doesn't have close friends with children. It's very hard to describe. It's a game changer. It's a game changer. Changes who you are instantly. Yeah. You're just a different thing. You're a different your your your perspective on the world is so different. And I don't think it's

13:23mandatory. And I think this is important to say because man, I you used to bum me the out when people who were fathers or mothers would treat you like you were doing something wrong cuz you didn't have kids or like there was something wrong with you if you didn't know. or they would tell you that you don't even know about life until you have kids or that you know, yeah, it's a perspective enhancer, but guess what? A lot of shit's a perspective enhancer. Like, you don't have to do it. But for me, per because I I just hate when people tell people, you know, that it's like this mandatory aspect of life. I think you could absolutely have a fulfilled life and never procreate. A lot of people shouldn't be parents, man. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Almost every girl I ever dated, stay out of the business. That's not true. But they changed too, man. I I have a buddy of mine. His

14:15ex-girlfriend was crazy. Just off the charts crazy. Just wild. Girls out of her mind. Drugs and sex and chaos. She had a kid. Bam. Snapped out of it. Eats healthy, organic. She's super mom. Wasn't about her anymore. It also is about a fresh chance to do something correct and raise a child with love and and not create someone like yourself. It's a it's this weird eyeopening thing I think for a lot of people where they realize where all their anger comes from, where all their well, it comes from not being raised correctly. That's a giant part of most people's lives is what kind of an interaction are you having with the people that love you? And if you get programmed like real early on that love means hitting and screaming and chaos and yelling and fighting, dude, by the time when I was a kid, man, I used to look about marriage like somebody wanted to serve me plates

15:10of for the rest of my life. Like what? Like why would you do that? Cuz what I grew up with was just chaos. I grew up with people yelling at each other and hitting each other and ah this. And you don't realize, I think, until you have a little baby that you're watching learn and develop and you're sort of data crunching all this all these events in this child's life. And you're experiencing all this with them. And the way you're experiencing with them is this intense bond of of of love, but of also of guidance. So, you have to guide this little person. And so while I'm doing that and just little moments and events in my daughter's lives, little conversations that we have that make me sort of process how they view the world and how they think about things that has made me just so much more aware of where a lot of my own weird personality quirks have come from, you know.

16:03Well, you look it's like looking into your own eyes. Yeah. So you're seeing, you know, everything's instantly recognizable. It's uh But yeah, that's a good way. Uh how did what did you just say? You said the seeing their perspective, you know, but they're just mirroring whatever you're doing. Yeah. Because they don't hide things. No. You know, they don't hide emotions. They don't hide thoughts. And if you can open up lines of communication with them really young and get them constantly used to talking about feelings and about thoughts and about why do you get those feelings? Like what, you know, they'll get jealous of each other. Why did she get a new toy? Why do you care if she has a new toy? Like why does that bother you if somebody else has something good and you see their little brain going, "Oh yeah, like because there's this like animal instinct that makes you

16:48want to get upset about something and you're like, "What? Her friend gave her a toy. Where's my shit?" You know, and you got to like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. You were happy until you found out that something good happened to someone you love, right? That doesn't make any sense now, does it? And you like, oh yeah, you can see the little tiny tiny brain spinning like he's just starting to talk so we'll get there. But now it's like we really like playing drums together. So that's probably the That's awesome. When he's talking to you, is it did it freak you out? It's happening right now. Yeah. I mean, you know, he gosh, it was there for a while. There was this little period was like 10 words every day and you don't even know they're picking them up until they say them and they'll look, you know, look at something and say it and you, you know, you we haven't had

17:33this lesson yet and it's like, "Wow, man." or when they express emotions and and uh or even to see them at such a young age understanding how to manipulate situations, you know what I mean? That's that's really interesting social dynamic like a a primitive game of chess. A little primitive child chess. My daughter was three and we were skiing and she was packing her stuff up and uh she didn't have her helmet or suitcase. So, she had her sho suitcase closed and then my wife goes, "Hey, um you forgot your your helmet." And she goes, "Shit." She was three. When a three-year-old goes, "Shit." Like a nice long one. Knew just how to say it. Yeah. I had to bite my hand to keep from laughing. I mean, I try to encourage like stuff that's funny as much as possible, but you can't encourage them swearing because they don't they don't have the self-control to like shut it

18:32off when they go to school, you know, and you don't want to be the parents that teach the kids that swearing around that. But it is fine. It really is. The are we doing this restricting the use of words to children? It's like, why? I'm about over the PC thing, man. Oh my god, it's driving me bananas. But this one is just crazy. So it's just so crazy. Why swears just seems so strange. Like doesn't seem to be an issue much anywhere else in the world you go. Well, for adults in business, I kind of understand not using them. Formalities. Yeah, for formalities. I mean, if you want to know something, it is it is a rather lazy form of linguistics though. I mean, if you just But hey, it feels good. So, well, it can be lazy, but it's like everything else. I think it's stress related, honestly, man. Swearing. I think it really I think it comes from anxieties and and and stress induced uh

19:34variables. I remember like in the Navy, it's this, that, like every other word. When I worked at the railroad, some salty language out there. image cuz you're under this like highly efficient expectation all the time and there's all these creative personalities and ideas bouncing off each other these little confined spaces and everybody's just wound tighter than a banjo string. It could be used a gang of ways though, right? It can al it's also used as like a pause. Sometimes people use use it in place of a meter tool. Well, you know, you know, sometimes people don't know what they're going to say next and they would lot to say uh but instead they replace it with Like guy with his this I'm sitting there, right? I'm talking to this, you know, like that kind of that's where it gets real lazy. That's what that's like most people don't even realize like the

20:23weird ticks they have. I didn't realize how many times I'd say you know or you know what I mean or or like the word like. Like like is a dangerous one because you could be talking to someone and not pick it up. But then once you do pick it up, you hear it's all you hear. It's all you hear. Like people have that little weird roadblock. They they they have a blind side. They didn't see it. A blind spot and they just say like all the time. Like it's terrifying because it might be me. I I mean definitely have been Tommy Seigur's got it bad. Seigura's got it bad. He's got it back. He's a like a hawk. He loves it. He hams it up a little bit, but like on that video he did in Cleveland this weekend. Did you see that? I didn't see that. That's really funny. Was it him and Hannibal Burus? No, no, no. He was on uh news like Oh, was playing that character. Yeah. Yeah, I did see that.

21:17Our friend Tom Siguro was in this morning show. You ever do those? Do you have to do those morning shows? You do those? I don't. I don't do those. Good for you. I will. my my career will suffer to some degree because of it, but man, I just I would I would never ask anyone to deal with me in a situation like that. So, it's best just to know what you are and and accept it, you know? Do do you get a hard time for not wanting to do like certain kinds of press? Do they give you a hard time? Not really. I mean, I think uh most of the people that I've been working with for a while now, they know who they're dealing with. Um, and I I don't I don't mind doing the press, honestly. It's just it's uh at a certain point it becomes I think counterproductive or even destructive because you you it's you I don't know you end up repeating things a lot. Yes. To the point that you're asked the same

22:09question so many times that without even realizing it, you find yourself giving verbatim answers. Right. That's when you know it's time to stop talking about it because it uh and the more like like I said, the more I feel like I talk about it, you're sort of denying people their a better chance to interpret it in a way that's going to make it mean even more to them and they'll hear it in a way that maybe I didn't even mean it. The the your memories become weird to you when you talk about them all the time, too. When you talk about certain things Yeah. and you repeat yourself over and over again. It does. It almost becomes a script to you. Like the memories of those things get weird. I realized, you know, like I said, this I've been playing music forever, but all this other stuff was very sudden transition. But being a skeptical, naturally skeptical person and

22:57self-aware, like you get in these situations and I sort of realized there's a certain theatric to it all. You know what I mean? and and then once you get past the reality of that and then you you learn enough about it to know that you can sit and talk for 3 hours literally, but it's not a representation of what you talked about. You can talk about everything under the sun and they might take one little sentence that had nothing to do with anything and an editor decides that that should be the the title of the article that is now written from some preconceived stance that you did you were unaware of during the conversation. You know what I mean? It's like I don't know the written word is especially problematic. You can't print context. You can't print context and it's literally someone's interpretation. It's art that's interpreting an individual. So if someone writes a story about you,

23:44it's really art because it's their own way of flavoring this whole interaction. and they try to do it with, you know, colorful descriptives and they try to use bold adjectives and try to figure out a way to paint it in the most entertaining way as well as get some point across. So, I think sometimes with a lot of guys, they're also just trying to get you to click on their website. Yep. That true. But the way to do that is with a good entertainment, you know? So, it doesn't necessarily have to be an actual factual representation of who you are. Like if someone writes a story about you, like what's almost more important is this art of getting something salacious. This art of writing something something that makes you say, "Oh, this guy is wild." Or, "This guy's," you know, it has to be like this one thing, you know, Sergel Simpson first a man when he was

24:3514. You know, you know what I mean? Like something like first sentence like, "Hey, Jesus, what the where the is this article going?" You know, not really, but he would have you believe that, you know? You know, you know what I mean? Like it starts, man. I I I didn't realize it until it's when you meet people on the street and you realize they have these crazy misinformed ideas about who you are and what you represent and like you know what you are. I mean, yeah, you know, that was that was a good lesson learned. Yeah, that's a good lesson for anybody. Actually, just kind of a dork. And what's that? It's really just like a dork. You know, you bet you're like this this outlaw tough guy like, you know, dirt to dirt. That's what they think. I don't know. Some of them. Some of them probably do. People are always looking for that though, right? Aren't they always

25:23looking for the outlaw country guy? It seems to be the case. Yeah. Like uh that was a a shooter had a song making fun of all these like fake outlaws. He had a song making fun of all that too. I mean, his dad did. Well, his dad was the real thing. Yeah, you know, it's got to be hard to look at some fake outlaws with designer scratches in their jeans like they got attacked by a leopard or some I mean, that looks so stupid. And when your dad has Whan Jennings, that's got to be even more offensive. I can't imagine, man. You know, when they see these guys with a hat that they just got 15 minutes before they went on stage, someone handed it to them and placed it perfectly and someone's doing their hair and checking and making sure everything's good. Then they send him out there to be an outlaw, sober, on aderall, probably beta blockers. It's It's something that

26:20I couldn't I couldn't possibly describe to you how little I pay attention to it. Yeah. To to country or to music in general? Country. But even anymore, I don't really listen to much going on. You are you buddies with that guy Jason? How do you how do you say Isbel? Yeah, that's the right way to say it. Yeah, dude. I just got into him a couple weeks ago. Genius. Fantastic. I listened to that uh his most recent album like the entire time I was in Mexico. I was in Mexico for like a week. I just listened to him the entire time. Yeah, we use uh Jason play some shows together. He's good dude, man. Good. Good. You should have him on the podcast. I would love to. Interesting. Really smart dude. Great writer. Oh, yeah. He's kind of the guy. Yeah. Oh my god. I mean, the lyrics incredible, intense. Just so really well structured, too. That's that's the other thing about this

27:13job is you you meet people that you hit it off with and but you never hang out cuz you're never at home. So, we've been we've been trying for like two years to take our wives to dinner, man. But like it's one or the other. You're either on a tour or somebody's back or I know exactly what it's like. I know exactly what it's like. Uh comedians, we work together a lot. That's how we do it. We we also work together at the store. That's why the store is like a great base. It's like home base. So, everybody goes to the store. So, we meet each other in the store during the week nights. And then a lot of times in the weekends, we'll work together. It's a bit like if we do big theater shows, especially in Vegas. How many weeks do you think you're down there? The store? Yeah. Um, at least two. Always at least two. Just working. Yeah. It depends on how many nights I'm

27:54in town, you know. But it's it's convenient for me because my spots are always after 10:00. So my kids are already asleep. So I can I can jet out after I put them to bed. I can get, you know, they go to bed at like 8, so I'm gone, you know, it's perfect. And it's also like for for anybody who does the road a lot. It's a nice wakeup call, you know, like you just see these animals going up in there, you know, Chris Rock show up working on his Oscar speech. He showed up there Saturday night. We were there. That's right. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Chappelle shows up all the time. Louie shows up all the time. Bill Burr's there all the time. I mean, just all the assessments. Just topping up and testing out new stuff or or keeping their chops up. Keeping the chops up, ch testing out new stuff, all the above. Just just working, you know. It's like there everyone's act is sort

28:42of like a work in progress, you know. And when you're close to them, you watch it for like like Joey Diaz, who I think is the funniest guy of all time. He's the funniest guy ever. I never never never laughed harder than watching him, but I watch his bits. I watch them develop like uh because I'm working with them all the time. That's some of the more interesting things about one of the more interesting things about uh being friends with a lot of comedians is watching all the different styles of like creation, how they do it, how they piece it together. It's well, it's just like songwriting. There's like there's no right way to do it. Yeah. Wrong way. But man, that I tell you what, just that I've you know, I'm just now getting to spend any time out here. Um, but I there's something about that world just the the couple of times I've gone and spent time in that

29:24place. It's it's a totally different headsp space than anything I'm used to or accustomed to. And you can see there's definitely a sense of community. Oh, yeah. And there's but a palpitable underlying darkness. Oh, yeah. To it all. Uh, but I think what I I like the most about it is there's no gray area, you know, for all in all the everybody seems to be pretty black and white and like real as you know? You can get away with some ridiculous on that stage too cuz it's just the way it's always been like like Holtzman like without giving any of his set away. Some of the things that he was saying like Jesus Christ. Oh, dude. I was I mean I know you're enjoying that too cuz I was sitting there just like Holy Did he He was particularly on fire that night, too. Like the screaming at people. And um so what happens when somebody gets up and just jumps on the stage and goes for him? I mean,

30:18that's happened before. I mean, the dude with his girlfriend, I was just like, what is happening right now? Holy man. That was intense. But the people were laughing. Um but people have attacked him. Really? Yeah. Martin Lawrence's bodyguard. Does that go south? I mean, then what? I wasn't there. I missed the uh the festivities, but from what I understand, Martin Lawrence was in the audience and him and Holtzman like were going back and forth and Holtzman went over to the table to point out that it was actually Martin Lawrence that he was that was he was being heckled by and Martin's bodyguard gets up, punches him in the head, knocks him out. That was one time I heard. But there was some other stuff, too. Damn. One time he took a an ashtray and Ari was talking about this the other day, the comedy store. Um, especially like in the uh early days had these thick glass ashtrays. Old school

31:10ash bar ashtrays. I'm sure many people got murdered with one of those things, man. Well, Holtzman was talking about Charlie's Angels and how angry he was that anybody really believes a woman could kick all those men's asses. I take her and he grabs an ashtray and I'll crush her. And he throws the astray at the table and shatters his ashtray. Holy Yeah. It's like, whoa. He blew an ashtray up in the room. I mean, glasses flying all over the place. I mean, he really threw this ashtray down on this table and shattered it. It was a small crowd, but someone easily could have got hit with a hunk of glass. That probably that glass probably still on that ground. Shards. They probably haven't cleaned it. He definitely could probably find the shards. Yeah, dude. But he's going for it. You know what I mean? It's, you know, it's it's one of those things we were talking

32:08about like there's there's a when you're writing a song, I guess it's probably similar, too, where you're creating this narrative. You you're you're you're being a a separate person maybe than you are in real life and you're creating it and you're you're seeing it from that person's perspective. Well, when a guy like Holtzman is doing that on stage, he's doing something similar, but because it's just talking, people don't accept it as not really his opinion, right? You know, they they think that he's just an and a misogynist and a this and a that. And it's not just like he's a character in a movie that's playing an that's happened to be hilarious, which we accept with no reservation. It's weird, right? It's uh I I don't know. I was just enamored like after the fact and then looking back on what I just seen how when he's in the moment of playing the frustrated,

33:11you know, like you this is such, you know, like what's the what's the point? You like Right. But so he was just so in that it has to make me feel like a part big part of it's coming from a very real place too, you know. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It's just I mean he's not carrying that around with him all the time, but that's definitely coming from a real place. He has this bit about Hillary. I can't give it away. Cathartic in a way. Yeah, for sure. Definitely. But he's like he's a very smart guy, obviously. But he's legitimately frustrated at the world around him, you know? Who isn't? Yeah. But if you're not, then you're not paying attention. I mean, it's that simple in this day and age. Look, you what we all should try to do and I I know you agree is try to be as harmonious as you can in your life, in your personal life, in your friendships, harmonious as you can. The problem today

34:01is that in this day and age, we have access to all the stories. All the stories everywhere. There's too many of us. That's too much data to crunch. You're you're only going to get the shitty ones because the shitty ones are the ones you're going to hear about because those are the one, you know, ISIS cuts baby's head off. Holy Yeah, the baby was that doesn't scare me, man. I don't I don't worry about Oh, ISIS and things like that. I worry more about uh natural disasters. Well, weird. That's weird you should say that whenever we talk Yeah. I get hung up on fault lines and uh you know, the the inevitable, but my my wife makes fun of me about it. No, I I mean I guess I should be worried about ISIS, but I'm I'm I mean, hell, these like neo-Nazi bent perspective Zionist group scare me more than ISIS. You know, like people like the homegrown ones. Yeah. Ones actually here in our country that

34:52like the Oregon guys. H I don't want to I don't Man, I I watched about two minutes of that. I was like, I can't even look at this. So, we still never found out who called them Y-Qaeda. We never figured it out. We we believe someone on this show named him Ya Ka. Yal Kaida. It was either that or it was a comic that we know named him. I Googled it. In fact, it's I saw it a lot of times on Google, so I don't know where it started. It might not have even started there then. The person who said it might have heard it first. Either way, what a great name. Yaida, I love that name. How did what would it I mean, I honestly did step away. What ended up happening with all that? Um, one guy got shot and killed. Um, good. And then there was uh some guys turned themselves in and uh you know there was a standoff for a long period of time. It had to do with grazing and cattle cattle on on uh public landm

35:51There's a mountain range in Utah that was still BLM BLM land. A lot of the hunters were there was like a 100 like a hundredyear ban on is it okra I think okra mountain range the other side of the valley and they were getting ready to open it back up after 100 years. So they said well most people don't have this in their country. Most countries don't have uh giant swaths of public land that you can hunt and fish on. Right. That was all because of Teddy Roosevelt. Teddy Roosevelt faced so much pressure to not to not do that and to give into that that he wound up leaving. Was he a Republican or a Democrat? I feel like the Democrats used to be the more uh conservative ones back in the day and then the Republicans were the more open-minded and liberal. Then somewhere along the line the the polar axises shifted. At least that's what I've written read rather. Anyway, Teddy Roosevelt,

36:46he deemed all of this land all over the country as public land. And you you could never do anything with it. You can't you can't put cities in it. You can't do with it. This is just public land. And this is land owned by the people of the United States. And there's been a lot of like really shady politicians that have looked at our debt because, you know, United States has massive debt. and they said, "Look, this is one way we can get rid of this debt. We can sell some of our public land." I think Paul Ryan, that guy that's one of the presidential guys. I think he bowed out of the presidential election, but he was one of the guys that was it was one of his proposals and people the the like outdoors people, people that hike and hunt and fish, they were going crazy. They're like, "You can't do this." It's like you you can't but but you look at it on CNN. You look at it's

37:37like one of the most important things about what makes this country amazing is some of our natural resources, our parks. Oh, there's nothing else like it on the planet. Yeah. Yoseite. I mean, go to go to Yoseite if you don't think there there's some majesty in places in the world like almost like a magic land. You look at those mountains and you see a grizzly bear and you see a herd of bison. You're like, "Holy shit." Like this. What is this? This is a wild park. You can go through this park and you might get eaten by a grizzly. Go ahead. Good luck. I mean, you in the world where people are coddled and pampered and every edge is covered by a a thick chunk of nerf. gets real, dude. You could walk through Yellowstone and two people over the last like 5 years have been killed by bears. It It happens more than you think. Yeah, man. My friend was there. He heard

38:24wolves howl. He said it was the craziest He said, "We're in Yoseite and you hear you hear it. I was like, "Is it like a coyote?" He's like, "No, no, it's a wolf, man. It's different." That'd be bad, bad, bad way to go. Speaking of Roosevelt in Yellowstone, have you ever been to that big ranger station that I think he's the one that had it built out there, but it's this like 20s story high cabin and there's all these weird wooden You can go to No, I've heard of it, but I've never been there. It's amazing. It's like really old building. It's really old. I mean, over 100 years old. what they, you know, all the forest rangers, I think, I hope I'm getting that right, lived in it. But it's pretty much like the coolest treehouse you'll ever see anywhere on the planet. But it's a big hunting lodge. Wow. Should check it out if you're ever out there. Imagine those days, man, when they they

39:16only, you know, like we have a pretty clear view from all the data we've taken in, all the photographs and video and all the people's accounts. We have a clear view of what this country's like, you know, at this point. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we know we know about the drive to Vegas from LA. We know about going up the coast to you know what I'm saying? We know. So, but in the Teddy Roosevelt days, they were they were still they were like 50 years into pictures. Undaunted courage, man. Right. They had their first pictures were in the late 1800s, right? So, the Teddy Roosevelt age, I mean, this was they barely knew anything. No. the did they how what year was Roosevelt president? Early 1900s, 1909 something. So, think about that. They'd only had pictures for like what 50 or 60 years. How many pictures of there were of there of of Yellowstone or of uh the Colorado

40:11Rockies or all the different types of wildlife you're going to run into? How about a Wolverine? You got a photo of a Wolverine yet? I just stumbled across that thing for the first time going, "Jesus, what is that?" man. I was watching this video the other day with this dude who was driving his car. He watched a wolf and a and a a mountain lion fighting to the death. They were duking it out right in front of him. He stopped his car and he said they were so close that he could reach out and touch the wolf. And so he's sitting there in his car while this wolf and this mountain lion are engaged in mortal combat. I'm cool. I'm good, man. What a But what a crazy trip that would be to see that. And you know, if you were in the Teddy Roosevelt if I knew they weren't coming through the windshield. Yeah, I'd go see that. But I mean, I'd getting out of the car. I know. Yeah. You drive through

41:07Yellowstone every time. It never fails if there is a grizzly sighting. Yeah. You get there and there's like 20 carloads of people standing out on the street with their cameras out and a ranger stand there saying, "Please get back in your car." You, you know, you're entering the food chain. The guy was so sardonic about it. I was just like, "This is amazing." This is it right here. This is the video. This is the wolf and the the Look, the mountain line has the wolf by the neck. Wow. The mountain line jacked him. That is crazy. Look at the mountain line winning. I think I'd rather get eaten by a great white shark than taken out by a cougar man cuz it's going to play with you like a ball of yarn. Go back it up, Jamie. Because before that, you actually see them duking it out before the mountain line wins. My uh a friend of mine is a guide. He's a hunting guide in Colorado. Look at

41:55this battle. That mountain line just clamps down on his neck. That wolf's trying, but it ain't working out, dude. That mountain line ain't letting go. Did you see that video of the panther? The lady caught on video running by. Yeah, the panther ran by him. Holy That ran by her. Yeah, that's in Florida. I was hiking on Analopee Island one time and uh just north of Utah and they have this big buffalo reserve out there. It's like a public peak, probably 6,000, you know, dayhike. And uh but there's all these freerange buffalo everywhere on the island, you know. Wow. And so we're coming back down the hill, me and my buddy. And as we're hiking down the trail, you know, about 300 yards down, I can see there's a couple buffalo right on right on the trail on the foot path. And we're like, it's all right. They'll they'll be moved on by the time we get there. And we come down

42:46the hill, come around this big boulder, and sure they're still standing there, man. And I, you know, I my uncle had a farm. He had cows. I've never been around a damn buffalo. I don't know the difference. And uh so I'm like, well, they'll move. It's just a big ass cow, you know? So, we just keep walking towards them. And my buddy, he jumps up on a rock and he's just laughing at me like a dumbass cuz I'm standing there at this point. This thing's 15t in front of me. Oh god. And it was grazing like sideways with his with his hip towards me and he's just eating. And finally he looks up and turns his head and looked at me, man. And I it I realized, holy I mean, it's like the size of a Volkswagen Beetle, man. Oh my god. And he's just looking at me. I'm thinking this is some dumb right here. Like what am I doing? You know, what do I do? And uh that's a different buffalo, buddy.

43:32That's a water buffalo. That's an Asian animal. Old school. There you go. Top left. This is a bison. Yeah. Yeah. That's a water. He just turns and looks at me and I'm like, "Oh, I'm so fucked." And uh I didn't know what else to do. Size of that thing. Took one more step forward. You did towards him? Yeah. I didn't know what else to do, man, cuz we're looking right at me. We're making And I just kind of like took I didn't know like he's going to charge me. I'm either running or what. So, I took one more step and he just kind of like often and him and this buddy ran. But when he started running, man, like the whole ground shook. Oh. And I remember standing there looking at my my friend thinking like that could have been really bad. Oh yeah, you could be dead. No Sturgel Simpson. But there's it's it's but it's open to the public. You hike out there all the

44:15time. There's buffalo everywhere. So that's how's that a winning combination? I like it. I don't I do I I like it way better than I like the idea of a zoo. Enter nature at your own risk. I think you should enter nature at your own risk. And I think nature should be natural. So you're a big bow hunter, right? Yeah. Okay. So we'd started to talk about this at dinner, but Like moose are mean as Yeah. Uh you know if you you shoot an arrow in an elk's ass and it doesn't kill it, you just piss it off and now you're 40 yards away from this thing. What do you do? Well, most importantly, you got to practice. Like before, especially if you're going to shoot an arrow, you I practice every day. Really? Every day. Every day I I go somewhere and I shoot arrows. It's something you should probably take seriously. You got to take it. So it's not like a rifle thing. No. See, a rifle thing is

45:02it's all just about understanding how to use a scope and understanding uh trigger discipline. You got to understand how to squeeze a trigger and not pull it. But archery involves a lot of weird hand eye coordination and balance. There's so many different factors going on. There's like a little sight that you have and you have to balance that sight out where the bubble is in the center, you know, the level bubble. You got to make sure you're not torquing your bow left or right. You got to make sure that the peep the peep site, the the the little string hole that you're looking through lines up and eclipses perfectly your housing. You have to make sure that your hand is completely steady. You want to make sure you don't flinch at all when you release the arrow. There's so much going on. Any micro movement can add up to several feet left or right when it

45:51gets down past like 40 and 50. the wild trying to control your intended, you know, target on this moving creature. Yeah. Moving creature. And you have to make you have to be good enough to make an ethical shot, right? You know, you have to be good enough to, you know, and it's not easy, man. It's not easy. So, that's the most important thing. It's like there's a lot of guys that shouldn't be doing it because they're doing it and they make I was going to say all that said, when goes wrong, then what do you do? Well, you you have to have a plan, right? If you if you shoot an an animal and it charges out, you got to have a tree near you or something where you can get behind the tree, right? You know, but you got to assume that if you hit an animal with an arrow, the last thing it wants to do is charge you. Unless it's a predator, predators might charge you. Like if you

46:40the real there's a real possibility that if you hit a bear, although I know people that have hit a moose. Um my friend Ranella got run over by a moose. He shot it with a rifle and went to move in for the the final shot and the thing was much better shape than he thought it was and it got up and charged him and knocked him over. Yeah. And I've seen another guy who um shot a moose with a bow and the moose charged him. But most of the time they want to get the away from you. But again, it's not safe. It's not supposed to be. But it's real. I mean, if you are hunting an elk and you kill an elk with a bow and arrow, you killed an elk with a bow and arrow. It is real. It is 100% real. That is a real elk. It's a wild animal. It doesn't have any rule book. There's no act. There's no act break. There's no commercial time. It's a That's a real 1,000 lb wild horse with a tree grown

47:35out of its head. And it's horny. It's screaming. this thing that's 10 times bigger than you. It's running up a hill with a tree growing out of its head. And now you got to carry it out of there. Yeah. Well, you got to cut it up. Well, we the elk that I shot luckily were close enough to get a truck nearby, but uh I know guys that have had to camp them out, pack them out. Yeah, cuz you know, and then the smell and everything, you're drawing predators at night if you have to do that. Bears, you got to be real careful bears. But wolves, too. I have a friend of mine who's going to be on uh next week that's got John Dudley. He was in uh Alberta and they shot an elk and they got surrounded by wolves. The wolves are trying to take the elk. He said it was They killed two wolves. Like they got they got charged by wolves. Yeah. It got real weird, man. And he said and once they had killed two um

48:30this alpha like hung around the edge of this uh ridge and looked down at them and just decided enough was enough and just went ghost and they all disappeared. The entire pack. But they were around him howling. He said he could hear like 12 distinctly different howls around them and they have an elk on the ground. Yeah. And people, you know, people say, "Oh, he killed a wolf. That guy's an asshole." They kill a lot of wolves up there, folks. And you might think that's a terrible idea and that's horrible, and it is if you don't live there. But if you live there, they have to. Like you don't understand. Everybody has this idea, and I talk about this way too much, so I'll stop. But everybody had this idea of predators that they're like some character in a movie that knows the script. They don't, man. They they you have to control their populations. They just found 19 dead elk

49:25that these wolves killed in Wyoming. They just left them there. They just went on a slaughter fest. They snuck into this pack of like some of those elk packs in Wyoming, you'll get like a hundred elk. You know, there it's immense these huge huge packs of elk. What you call what would you call them? A herd. Herd of elk. And so this wolf pack jumped in there. Look at look at all the elk they killed. 19 elk. And they didn't eat any of them. They just killed them. Just killed them. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like you said, unless you live there, it's hard to have an opinion one way or another. Well, everybody that has an opinion, it's all I mean people that have unrealistic opinions about wolves, it's all coming from a a beautiful place. It's coming from a place of love. They love animals, but they do breed like dogs and Yeah, they do. Yeah, they have litters, man. Nothing's hunting them.

50:16Yeah. People like only the alphas get to breed. Yeah, you better read up on history. Natural. That's not true. They they they all Dogs like crazy. The alphas control most of the breeding. Yeah, but it doesn't mean the other ones don't There's a lot of wolves. They have They just did some recent uh survey on wolves in uh I believe it was Idaho and they were talking about how many of them there are. They're like, "Whoa, like this is kind of they're they're far beyond where they thought that they needed to be before they would put them back on the hunting list, but they don't they don't ever want to put them on like what happens is they reintroduced them in the '9s. And before that, they were pretty much wiped out by cattle ranchers and all these people throughout the West. There's very few like wild wolves in North America. And so they reintroduced these wolves from Canada that happen to

51:05be larger, by the way. They're larger wolves than the wolves that were naturally here. What did the Native Americans do about the wolf population back in the day? Well, uh they didn't I mean they they killed them certainly because they they used to use their skins to sneak up on bison. Actually, there's a crazy famous painting, an iconic iconic painting of uh these uh American Indians with a wolf costume on. Like they have uh covering their body and they're crawling with a bow and arrow up to these uh bison cuz bison weren't scared of wolves. They hardcore kicking in your head. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Seriously. Yeah. Bisons don't That's one of the reasons why there were so many of them. No, other animals really had a very difficult time taking them out. Look at this. There's the picture. That's like an iconic. Yeah, that's exactly how that one looked at me right there. Left. I was just like,

52:00that's got to be bone chilling. What did that feel like staring that thing down, man? I I froze. I literally froze cuz I just I didn't know what to do. Could be the end of your life. That was the thing. You're standing there like and I realized I'm I've just put myself in a horrendously bad situation. The amount of force they could generate, you can't even resist it. There's nothing you could do. You're just completely helpless. Like there's literally nothing you could do. They run faster than you. Yeah. And they're, you know, that's a 1,500 two 2,000 lb animal. And the Indians snuck up on them like that. And um my friend Steve Reanella, not Steve Reanella, Remy Warren, he has this television show called Apex Predator. And um they did all these different episodes on the ways different animals uh hunt their prey and see if he could recreate it. And that's one of the

52:52things he did. He he took a wolf skin and put it on them and and crawled up to these buffalo and got like right inside them. Yeah. But they're afraid of us. Well, they're afraid of people because of our bang sticks. Yeah. Right. True. I was saying uh earlier I was I forgot what I was talking about for a second, but uh a friend of mine is a guide in Colorado and they found these mountain line tracks like all these mountain line tracks and then elk tracks and the mountain line tracks and the elk tracks together and then there's a space of like several hundred yards where there was just elk tracks and so they followed that elk track and they found a mountain line on top of the elk killing it. this giant elk, like thousand pound elk. He said it was a huge 6x6. So you're talking about a mature animal. And this mountain lion was like, "Fuck it. I'm going for it." And he jumped on

53:48this thing and clamped a hold of its back and then brought it down. The mountain lion weighed 150 lbs, right? So it took out this thousand plus pound elk by jumping on its back and biting its neck. Do you guys get them down in the valley? Mountain lines. Yeah. Out here encroaching. killed a koala bear at the zoo the other day. Yeah. Now we're taking it seriously. Yeah. Well, they they they're like, "How the did it get in? It's got a 12ft high fence and there's razor wire sneaky ass cat, man. Come on." I saw that little Ewok and it was like Mhm. I know, but it found a way. It climbed over barb wire. That's hardcore, dude. That's hard as core gets. 12 foot high fence, barb wire in the top. He's like, "Good try. I got this. Good try." He probably got cut up a bit, but whatever. He's a mountain line. They probably heal like that. Think about that though, man. 150 lb cat. Yeah.

54:46Like, you know, you're you're riding your bike one day. One of those things falls out of a tree on your head. It's going to grab your neck. God, with these big old saber teeth and like take you to the ground and play with you for a while. Well, it's not just going to kill you. You know what I mean? It's going to it's going to mess with Look at the size of that That's the one that lives up in the Hollywood Hills. That's the one that they think killed the koala bear. That's a lion. That's a lion, dude. I mean, that's like a lion in Africa lion. Look at the forearms on that goddamn thing. Like, those front forearms are insane. That would be awful. That is ins That's an insane amount of power that thing must have. And they say that pound-for-pound, they're one of the strongest cats. Yeah. I mean, look at it. Yeah. I mean, his shoulders and arms. My god. Yeah. I'll tell you right now, if a

55:30bobcat tries to with me, I'll up a bobcat. I'm pretty pretty confident I'll kick a bobcat's ass. I bet it still wouldn't be fun. No, I'm kidding, man. Look, I have cats and I have to wash them and uh my my daughter is allergic to cats and the way we the only way we can mitigate it is we have to shave them. So, they get a buzz cut, like a lion's cut, and wash them. And it makes a giant difference in how much dander they they leave because they're both like really fluffy cats. They would leave cat hair everywhere. But so this solution made a bit. But I have to hold on to these little while they get shaved. And man, even though like they love me and they, you know, when they want to go, man, they want to go and you you realize like how difficult they are to control this little Yeah. They they move. They twist and contort and they can they kick it off you and woo

56:23these big long senuary relaxed muscles that all of a sudden you're like holy you're actually a little bodybuilder. Okay, we're just so lucky we're so much bigger than them. But with a mountain lion supposed to get a cat. There's a bobcat there. I'm going to come come get some bobcat. I'll you up, No, it' probably be terrif Oh, that was a cute one. That's a Lynx though. I don't think that's a bobcat. those uh there's you ever see those weird lynxes they have in Canada? Those white I've never been to Canada, man. No, actually that's not true. I've been to Canada. I've just never been up to the part of Canada that I'd really like to see. They have these uh weird cats, man. They don't even look real. They look like a like a Star Wars cat. It's called a Lynx. Lynx. And they have these crazy big paws with fur all There he is. Look at that. Weird ears. Yeah. Come on, man. That's like a Narnia

57:09animal. Some Turkish delight. Yeah. Look at that. That doesn't even look real. Look at that cat. Tell me that looks real. That looks like something from some weird movie. Like the proportions, like go back to that last picture, Jamie. Look at the proportions of its body. It's so odd. Giant feet, long ass big legs. Just a weird body, man. And that thing is just up there earning. Just earning. Just out there hustling every day. Jacking with its face. Like what does it hunt in Canada? I guess everything. I'm sure small things. I don't think they get that big. I mean, if I had to guess, I would say Lynx probably only gets to be like 50 pounds. See what how See how big they get. See if I'm right. I don't think they get much bigger than that. But I think they they probably eat um 24 pounds. Okay. I think they probably eat like uh rabbits and squirrels and or fawns. They'll

58:06definitely eat fawns. We found this up video of this martin. A martin chasing a rabbit. You know what a martin is? Oh, what is that? Play it for him, Jamie. Martin. A martin is an animal that I always associated with fur because of those Alaska shows. You know those shows where the dudes are living up in Alaska? There's one called Mountain Men and this guy runs a fur trap line and one of the things that he traps his martin. Well, that's a Martin. It's like a little badger and it's chasing after a rabbit. So, the little black thing in the back is the ba is the martin. And this is a literally a run for life. Look at this rabbit's going, "Fuck, fuck." And the Martin's hustling behind him. Thing is moving, man. yeah, it is. And this is like a crazy sprint. I mean, they're both sprinting. It's like, how long can they do it for? And the Martin just is relentless. And these people are filming

58:56this from their car, following them behind them on the road. And uh the Martin just finally the rabbit starts trying to veer off the road and he gets into the thick And the Martin closes the distance. But look at the drama here. It runs better on the hung boom, Wow. Oh my god. Oh yeah. And here, what's crazy is they're the same size. In fact, the Martin is smaller than the rabbit. Look at the difference. That thing's mean as Oh yeah, man. I mean, he just carried it up by its face. That's like snow. He's like It's like he hit a nitro button or something. Well, he knew the end was near. That was cool. Yeah. Crazy. Imagine if you We went down the rabbit hole on this. fought with a dude to the death with your faces, right? You you killed him with your face and then dragged him up a hill with your face all in the course of 15 seconds. From the time that Martin

59:49got a hold of that rabbit, that rabbit is dead as and he was carrying away in 15 seconds with his face. No, my uh one of my good buddies is a a radiology technician and he most he sees all kinds of horrible happen to people like every day, you know what I mean? That's why I'm thankful I just have to get up and try to sing and pitch every to make money. Uh he said the worst thing he ever told me was uh there was a guy who was driving along on his way to work one morning hit a deer like the deer the body split in half and the ass end of the deer came up over the hood and through his windshield and it was just intestines and blood and and guts everywhere all over like the glass windshield cut his face all up. So now he's got all this down in the blood and in his face. So, uh, so they bring this guy and so he came in and, uh, was like went through the windshield and laid down in this creek

60:51bed like after he hit the deer and laid there and while he's like laying in the damn creek bed, raccoons came and snacked on his face. So then, and the guy ended up living, but I mean between all the bacterial. So he got jacked. Yeah. Hit a deer. All that happened and I guess he like came out of the truck and then laid down in this ditch until they found him like you know however many hours later and while he was laying there unconscious wild woodland creatures had came and eaten the open Yeah. dude had a bad day, man. Jesus. How much of his face got bitten off? Man, I I'll Patrick said it was not pretty. Holy man. Uh, and he the the D he actually lived. Oh my god. You know, I don't know that I'd want to survive something like that. Or maybe you do. You always want to survive, but Yeah, you always want to survive. You just want to survive just to kill as many raccoons.

61:47Yeah. Be like the best raccoon hunter ever from that day on. You be a raccoon serial killer just standing in front of trash cans with a rifle. Yeah. I'm glad I don't have to work at a hospital. Oh, dude. I have a buddy who's an EMT. to tell me some stories. The craziest story is my friend Steve, he's an opthalmologist and uh he did his residency in Miami during the cocaine days and he's like he's like, "Dude, you don't even know." And to this day, this guy Steve is strapped everywhere he goes. Really? Yeah. He wears a gun everywhere. He doesn't play games. He lives in Arizona and one of the reason why he likes Arizona cuz he can conceal carry. He just seen too much. He saw too much early on. You know, he he told me just every day was just gunshot to the head. Gunshot to the head. Gunshot to the head. Like you're in the Yeah. You know, how you how are you

62:44going to maintain any kind of positive outlook? You can't with or not just get completely burnt out. You get out of it. And he got out of it. When he got out of it, it was just like this big breath like, whoa, what the did I just experience? But now the knowledge that not only was that a real thing that he was experiencing on a daily basis, all that insane violence and all that the gunshots, all the craziness, he he knows that even if it's not like that anymore, like even if people there's the cocaine days are kind of over, Miami is much more calm, the violence is not as bad. He knows that that is what people are capable of within his lifetime. I'm sure you still see that though all the I I bet you do, but I think there was a level of it right during the the 80s in Miami. Do you know who uh Billy Corbin is, the uh documentary filmmaker? Name's familiar.

63:32He's got these two great documentaries called Cocaine Cowboys. Cocaine Cowboys too. Yeah. And Billy uh he's been on the podcast before talking about it, but he did a great job of showing how insane that time was where one of the things that he he talked about was how one year the graduating class of the police academy, every single one of them within like a year was either dead or in jail. They'd been murdered or they were in jail for corruption. Like the whole police department was just massively corrupt. Everyone was doing cocaine. There was murders like crazy all left and right and all around. It was just complete chaos. Yeah. Who's the what's one of the guy's names from the documentary? The white dude with the mustache that was kind of like a ring leader of it all. I think he went to prison and he's out now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The guy who flew

64:27the planes would bury the money in the the yards. I don't remember his name either, but I remember the lady Griselda. Griselda. Oh, the godmother. Oh, that lady. I think she's still alive, man. She might have died recently, but I think she was alive and free in Colombia. Yeah, she's living in South America for a long time in hiding. Yeah, she got out of jail in America. And you know, if the if her hitman who's in jail, who's in the documentary, is being honest about how many people she killed like, whoa, whoa, Jack, she alive? She died in 2012. Ah, there you go. There you go. So, when the second movie was made, they focused on her and her being released. Oh my god, what a crazy time. So, my friend Steve, you just saw all that, man. Just he saw a guy with a light bulb up his ass for what? Someone stuffed a light bulb up their ass. You know, one of those

65:25twisty light bulbs, the like Christmas tree looking light bulbs. They twist they they they not a Christmas light stick this up my ass. A big big ass one, you know? I mean I say it looks like a Christmas tree. I don't mean like a little one that's on your tree. I'm talking about a several inch long light bulb was stuffed up this dude's ass. People get bored, man. Yeah, they found everything. Wine, champagne corks, um all sorts of different objects like coffee cups and stuff. Yeah. Never heard any stories like that from my buddy. I guess it's also probably correlates with the cocaine days. They're probably just sticking things in every hole they had. Yeah. I don't know, man. Hats off to anybody that can work a coffee can in your ass. Well, that inspire just seeing all this stuff like the the the different layers of society you're dealing with on a day-to-day basis in and out, you know,

66:21and having to hold a any type of firm belief in humanity or civilization. I don't know. That would wear a person. I think even people that don't see violence, like people maybe that see just a lot of accidents. Yeah, it's got to be spooky. They say that a lot of women who uh are like EMTs have a hard time settling down and like having families. Like they get whacked out by it like particularly. That might be sexist to say. I don't think it is because uh I think that's something that uh I've heard female EMTs talk about just their own personal experiences, but that it's so it's so dark. Like every day you're just seeing broken necks and broken legs and car accidents and people splattered on the road and you know just grueling after a while. So what's like you know PTSD numbers like in a profession like that? I mean you got to be having some trauma. Oh yeah, for sure. You know um there's a

67:21certain amount of stress that I think comes with any kind of job where you're looking at death a lot. I mean how much PTSD does a doctor have? like emergency room doctors, how much do they just get accustomed to it? I think it takes a very special type of personality. You know what I think it also does does, man? I think it's really a lot like what we were talking about when you're you're taking in all these stories in the world because you can manage your own life, but but you're not you're if you're paying attention to the news, you're going to get inundated with stories by the 7 billion people and it's just too much. There's just too much data coming at you and too much of it is negative. I think that's probably the same way with like an emergency room doctor. Like it's okay if you see somebody get hurt once in your life, a few times in your life,

68:04or or maybe even, you know, like you you can get desensitized. They're not processing it cuz it's just it's on to the next case. You can definitely get desensitized. It doesn't it's not it doesn't freak you out anymore, you know, to see a guy whose leg is hanging off and you know I mean especially guys who are uh taking care of troops, you know, EMTs, combat medics. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. While people are shooting at you. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. You're trying to carry them out while bullets are. It's insanity. Again, I just try to sing in key, man. That's very grateful. Easy. We got it easy. It's just fascinating. um how many different ways to be a a person there are, you know, how many different different kind of lives you can live. Yeah. How many different types of experiences you can have. And you your reality could be so much different than somebody

69:00else's reality. And you're convinced that your reality is life. And they're convinced that theirs is life. You know, like what we're talking about with the wolves, like those people that live near those things that are in their pants when they hear those howls at night. My buddy lives in BC and his neighbor's cow was taken out by wolves. Well, they were all watching. They're all looking out the window. They're heard by What are you going to do? Can't do You can go out and start shooting. Wait for it to get full and off. Yeah. Yeah. You can go out and start shooting, but it's dark unless you It's pretty country. I I could live up there, but you know, the winters, I think, would just be That's the thing. They're ruthless. But anywhere that's it's too nice, you get too many people, right? It's like we were talking about LA, Los Angeles, it's too perfect. Every day the

69:47weather's perfect. But because of that, you have to breathe carbon monoxide air. I, you know, I've I was telling you yesterday was the first time I'd ever cuz uh it's at some point I think we're my family's ready for an adventure or a relocation. But yeah, I don't know that I could ever acclimate, no matter how long I was here, to convincing myself that the traffic is worth it. Worth it. Doesn't You don't have to live here. See, that's the the beautiful thing about Southern California is you could live in like San Diego, like La Hoya, like which is beautiful and quiet and and and picturesque. You see the ocean? It's right there. So pretty. I like the northern part of the state a lot, too. Northern part of state is amazing. I was in uh Mendescino over by uh where the the ocean is. It's like three hours plus maybe four hours north of San Francisco. So pretty, man. So the redwood forest.

70:45We went through the redwood forest and did all that Gosh, pretty Monterey once for a meeting with my booking agency. The people who live there got it pretty pretty well. That's that does not suck. And uh some friends in St. Louis. That's really that's a nice spot, too. Those places are calm, right? Really mellow. You can tell. Yeah, real mellow. My buddy John lives in San Louis Abyspo. I was about 15 years younger, LA would would seem like a good idea, right? But now Santa Barbara is real nice, too, man. Love it there. I'm going I've got a gig there on Friday night. Santa Barbara's like I don't think it's more than 100,000 plus people. I don't think it's very big, man. Shooter loves it out here. He's lived out here a while. Well, he's crazy. Shooter Shooter lives in the heart of darkness. He's in Los Felz in He has an apartment in Los Felz. He's a crazy man.

71:39He's like, you know, he loves it. Shooter is such a character, man. Dude, I love that guy. Sweetest guy on the planet. Oh, he's the best. He's also just like such a character like who he is as a person. You know, we had him in here and he was talking about about doing meth. He's like, "Oh yeah, I done math. It ain't shit." That's way talks about him. Like, come on, man. You ain't done math. Oh, you never truck crank, bro. You had that trucker crank. But he's a talented guy, too. And I also like that. Um, you know, you could listen to any one of his albums and it's like, oh, okay. He's obviously in some totally different phase. Yeah. In this album. He's just trying some other out. He He's one of the more naturally and genuinely curious and interested interested people, you know, like when he's listening to you and asking questions, he actually means it. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

72:34That's a rare thing in the music business. And coming from the son of royalty, right? You know, I mean, his dad was royalty. I mean, there's there's a few musical icons that you look at and you go, "Well, that's like in the royal 100%." You know? Whan Jennings is in the Royal 100. I mean, there's just there's just people that are in, you know? Chuck Barry's in. You know what I'm saying? He's in forever. Whan Jennings is in. He's in. That's his son. So, for him to be so normal and also be a musician and not be some weirdo who desperately craves attention or needs validation. He's a genuine artist and very content. If anything, I've seen him use his position to only try to help other people instead of himself. And that's the truth, man. Uh well, his mom was obviously so nice, too. Oh, yeah. We did dinner with his mom. She's so nice. So, and and really like sharp and smart, you know?

73:43Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. She's paying attention. Oh, yeah, man. just cool to talk to. It's uh the weird business, man trying to I mean, everyone out there, everyone I think that's try I mean everyone that's not like some sort of a perfect person is trying to do better with their life, you know, you're trying to improve on whatever you're doing, whether it's your job or, you know, your business or whatever the whatever your hobby is or your obsession, we're all trying to improve on it. But one of the weird things about being a musician and I guess a comic as well is that you're doing that in front of everybody, you know, like you're develop we're all developing as humans, you know, but you're also you're performing in front of all those people. Yeah. It is a when you when you write songs, I guess you can't ever stop to think, oh, I have to sing this the rest of my life. You

74:39know what I mean? Well, you because you'll never write any songs. It's You could have the crown. You don't You don't like that song. Well, like for me, I was I don't know. I I like the song. It's just But a lot of people really like that song. That song's badass. I I play that song at the gym almost every time I work out. That's a badass song. You're just too close to it. I'm too close to it. Well, yeah. It was a laundry list about my my my view on laundry list experience. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's uh just such a great song though, man. Yeah, we'll dig that one back out. It's time time to work it up, I think, in a new way. Make it fresh for us. I don't know. For me, man, I I love the recording process most most of all really because that's that's that's where you learn if you've improved. You know, you're under a microscope. Uh I get like hyperfocused in the studio.

75:31Um it's a good thing other people get tired or I'd probably just keep them in there all day. You know what I mean? M and then but it's almost like you're so tied to this thing and and in it that by the time it's finished, you just don't even want to think about it anymore. You want to it's like all right, well that's done, right? You know, but now you got to work it up and go out in a live context and and play this thing. Whereas hopefully you've you've tried to bury your soul and be as honest as possible, but then you're standing in front of a room every night. So you have to block that part of it out of out of your head that like people are judging you, right? you know, uh, and that's also part of it, too. You know, you're living that life experience out in real time. So, it's this has all been really educational and new for me in terms of figuring out how to navigate

76:19that in as artistic a way as possible without um, compromising anything. I guess I think we all learn from each other in that way, you know, cuz it's got to sell. Yeah. Or you don't get to do it anymore, you know. Exactly. Yeah. Don't do you learn from other musicians in that way? Do you see like how other guys are handling it or how how they uh how it influences their creative process? Does it influence you? Uh I mean, you definitely notice traits in other people that you wish you had more of or that you could maybe adhere to and it's and it's motivating and but like you said, you know, it's just about trying to be a better person. Yeah. and uh and use whatever outlet this is in order hopefully to make other people feel good too um or deal with things that maybe they don't know how to express which for me I think is the most important part of making music that's

77:15that's what it's always given me in the past before I was a performer and I just loved it from a sheer listener's position you know it offers us a lot of comfort and um I don't know and people tell you this after the shows that you're making an impact on their life and you know some uh my buddy Jordo said that his friend her grandmother's like laying in her hospital bed and the last thing she heard she played her one of my songs like you know that song my voice she just said wow he's got a really pretty voice and she was like totally relaxed you know so you hear things like that and it's it's easy to get hung up on mechanics or expectations or pressures or the industry and all that but like it feels like if you just kind of step back and hit pause it's easy to remember that anybody doing this job is very lucky to be able to do this job. And for me like

78:10uh I don't think I think in a lot of ways the modern media and industry has sort of not ruined music but it's made it really hard for people to focus on what it's really about. You know, it's like life is all a sudden one big episode of The Voice and it's all about the the year in lists and who says this is better than what and saying somebody's art is better than somebody's art. And I just don't think that that's ever like a healthy thing, if that makes sense. Making a competition out of something that's supposed to make everybody feel included. Well, it's definitely contrary to what seems to be your primary focus, which is making the best music for for your expression, expressing yourself in the best way you can and making something that's going to impact people in a in a in a way where your thoughts are going to get across. They're going to be moved by it. You can't do that if

78:57you're thinking about winning awards. It's contrary or selling lots of record or selling Yeah. or any of those things like promoting it business, you know, like anytime you you you not to say that it's impossible. I mean, there is it's hard, but like some people do sell a lot of records impacting people's lives with great music. It's out there. Well, great music sells. Yeah. Period. It always finds a way. Yeah. I mean, it's going to sell whether you're But like, do you did you see Amy Amy Amy W the documentary? Yeah. Her records. That's why I hired the DAP kings for for this new one, man. the sound of what they did on those albums. Amazing. She's such a good musician. Yeah, she was so like her sound that what she put together was so but to see how the intense pressure of being, you know, Amy Winehouse in quotes. I mean, she was or Justin Bieber or anybody else

79:49surrounded by enablers and kept copacetic all the time and just Yes. Yes. Yes. You know, you got to do other things, man. You got to be grounded, you know. You know, and I think since you got to go home and roll around and play with blocks. Yep. That's what you got to do. Yep. I like to get in the pool with them. I I They surf on my back. I go underwater and swim and they try to stand on me. It's hard to hold your breath for as long as it takes for a 5-year-old to stand on your back as you're floating. But but I mean other things as well like as far as not just family and loved ones and friends which are definitely important but I also think that other disciplines are important other focuses other things you're equally interested in you know because they alleviate some of the pressure of what it is to be singularly focused on one thing. Yeah. Which we can get to the point of madness

80:42you know. And it does. Yeah. That's I I got a drum kit. I got really into playing drums about six months ago. Just it's meditational, man. You have to relax to do it well and then you're not thinking about anything else. And once I realized that, I was like, "Oh, this is really good for me." And um but yeah, that's my thing. I'm so this music thing once it becomes a career, it you have to be singularly focused. Especially when thinking about a record, man. My wife, she just kind of leaves me alone uh once she sees me go to that weird play processing place, you know what I cuz it's like she, you know, it's like nothing else is in the room anyway for a while and then I'm done and you just feel like, okay, and then you don't write a song for a year. Well, she seems very smart and supportive. She can recognize that. That's that's so important. I have friends that are in relationships where

81:30the wife is not very supportive and resists the creative process and gives them and doesn't understand it or cares. My wife's very creative, too. So, she understands. She's very independent. So, it's being an only child, you know, I she knows like there's just sometimes where I have to go and be in my own little space. I just don't think you get to what you're doing right now. I don't think you get to that state unless you're a little crazy. You you have to be you got to be locked into it, man. You know, I like By the way, uh I'm so sorry I leaked the name of your album out as I love it. I loved it. I really did. I leaked it out on Instagram, but it was good, man. I was in the gym and uh and I said, "God damn, people got to hear about this." I was st I was so high. I was in uh Colorado. And when you get high in Colorado, when you're at 8,000 ft or is Utah, actually, 8,000 ft,

82:26it just hits you in some crazy uh you feel like you're on a spaceship, like on top of the world, like you're like I was feeling like I was connected to the world in some really weird way. And I was at the gym just barbecued. And that that album was so good. It was so good. Especially in that moment at the gym, endorphins flowing. And then uh you sent me a text. Hey man, I think you leaked the name of my album. I went, "Oh no, I didn't even think of that." Man, if it honestly at this point it's uh this is definitely a record that anybody that knows about me, I would like them to hear as a record because that's how I recorded it to be heard. Well, that's so one of the interesting aspects of it. Yeah. It's obviously um one piece. Yeah. Well, you um you sent me two versions of it was kind of cool, too. Or the people did. They sent me one version which is just one recording and then the

83:32other one is side two and then another one where all the songs were broken down individually. But it almost feels like I shouldn't be looking at that, you know? I mean, ideally, I would that's not how I it wasn't designed to be heard broken apart, I guess. But people like to hear like one song if they're in the car for 10 minutes on the way home. They like to hear one song. It's not not a bad thing. Yeah. Well, I mean, all of my favorite records, like of my top four or five records are all concept records, and mo a lot of them are in song cycle, which is uh what they call it like, you know, Dark Side of the Moon where it's just one continuous wall or the wall or what's going on by Marvin Gay or that what's going on was one. Yeah, that was all in song cycle. It was a written from the narrative of a Vietnam vet returning home to like an inner city home and trying to adapt to

84:24society again. It's a heavy album, man. And then Astral Weeks by Van Morrison. If you never heard that record, that's some powerful dope. No, I haven't. Um, it's all about the journey of a of a soul's life. Whoa. I never got into Van Morrison other than Moon Dance. Genius. Moon Dance. One of my favorite songs ever. I always wonder. That was That's what he called his commercial album because Astro Weeks, although it's like now considered probably one of the greatest records ever recorded, didn't sell very well because it was too artsy for a lot of people. So then he turned around and intentionally made a more commercially accessible album which was Moon Dance and of course sold a gazillion copies. Whenever I think about Marvin Gay, I think about this chick that I used to date cuz when Marvin Gay got shot and killed by his dad here in LA, right? I don't know where.

85:10Yeah, I think it was in Los Angeles. It's a tragic story. He got shot and killed by his own father. Yeah. The girl I was dating goes, "What kind of a horrible person must he have been that his dad shot him?" I went, "What? That's not how it works." Like, but that was how she viewed the world. Like, if your father shot you, you must have been a horrible person. So, him. He's probably my my favorite musician of all time. So, I know more about Marvin Gay than we want to go into here. Yeah. It's a really dark story. Yeah. Like how so? He's uh there was a lot of that him and his dad had things that stemmed from childhood. I think his dad was a a a preacher one, but also a crossdresser. And so Marvin, I think was ridiculed a lot and caught a lot of shame for that. And his dad was very strict authoritarian, really tyrannical rule in the house and beat beat his mom a lot. Oh. Um, so

86:11a lot of Marvin's sexual deviency later on, I think, probably stemmed from from some of that. But I mean, he's just a really highly sensitive guy and and a and a genius that uh I don't know. What kind of sexual deviency was he involved in? Well, he like air the guy's dirty laundry, but there's books about it. He was doing like SNM bondage. I think he had a pretty pretty substantial porn collection and Oh, okay. like to talk his 17-year-old girlfriends and orgies and threesomes and that kind of thing. That was legal back then. Yeah. He was just living, bro. You know, got got on the yo-yo and it went from there. But I think after the height of his fame and his bestselling record, he was married to the daughter of the president of Mottown or sister, one of the other. And she divorced him basically and took everything like the whole fortune. And he ended up smoking crack in a bread

87:03truck in Hawaii. No. And he this is after he's Marvin gay, you know what I mean? No way. Yeah. Then uh just went down from hills from there. Nobody could get to him or help him out. So he had to move back in with his parents. What? As a grown ass man and while he's Marvin gay. And then they think a lot of people say that's where the source of all the trauma and pain. Him going back to that at that stage in his life was the worst thing that could have happened. And being around his dad again. Being around his dad. And apparently they had an argument and he uh told his dad like if he ever touched his mom again, he'd kill him. And his dad said, "Well, if you ever lay a hand on me, I'll I'll kill you." And I think some people speculate that Marvin was just so done with all of it, the fame and everything that he knew by punching his father, it would get him

87:52out of it. But his dad shot him twice upstairs in the bedroom. Oh my god. And then the I think he laid there for about 20 minutes bleeding. And then once the ambulance showed up, the paramedics couldn't come in the house as long as the dad was still in there with the gun. So I think his sister-in-law or brother, somebody had to come in and like find the gun that his father had hidden because he wasn't talking. Oh my. And it took him So by the time they got him out of the house, Marvin died in the in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. That's heavy, man. What a crazy story. Really sad. It is a terrible story. It's you always when you when you hear about a guy that like has this um it's almost like overwhelming desire to express himself, you know, like when you have a song like what's going on or if you have a song like uh let's get it on, you know, devastating.

89:02Come on. I mean, there's there's some intense memory like his emotional connection to what he's doing is just so off the charts. And a lot of times that's almost like energized by dark moments in your life. Oh yeah. Dark memories. It overwhelms those those even the positive things. You show me a happy welladjusted artist and I'll show you some boring art, bro. Yeah, let's get it on was the dude. That was If you got a girl that likes Get Let's Get It On, you got a good one. He I think she was 17 when he wrote that album for her. All about his little young mistress. Oh Jesus, that's dark. Telling her how much he wanted to do the deed. Whole record. 17 is so good. There's a song called You Really Love to Ball on the end of that album. Really? Yeah. And it's just like women moaning and orgasm and really guy was fearless man give a Well, he's just getting away with it too

90:10at that time. He's probably selling so many records like go ahead and millions and didn't tour. He never toured really. Yeah. Hardly ever. They couldn't drag him out on a stage. No Really? I think when when let's get it on was blowing up, he was living in a cabin up in top of Topanga Canyon with his girlfriend and just hiding from the world doing blow. Wow. Literally, he played one concert that entire record cycle. That's where everybody lived back then. I saw Hendrick's house was for sale a few years back. There's a house that Hendrickx bought, but he never moved into. He bought it right before he died. I'll take it. Even if he did live there, I'm like, I'll still buy it. I need to know. Oh, man. If he if he did he write something anywhere? Was it in paper that this did he walk in? He He must have bought it. So he had to look at it. So if he looked at it, he

91:07was in there. So he walked around. I'll take it. He probably bone the real I'll take it. Well, there was a house that was for sale that was Wilt Chamberlain's house that had the whole deal. It had a circular bed that spun around. It was like the ultimate castle. And you know, Wilt Chamberlain on his way to banging 10,000 different women. allegedly according to him, you know, and he had just this insane bachelor pad that was just How did he get anything else done? Look at it. Look at it. Look, that's his house. Look at that bed. That's the bed. Dude, that looks like the an Enter the Dragon Mr. Hans palace or something. What is going on there, bro? Yeah. I'd be walking around in there like trying to find myself in the mirrors, you know? Like, look at that A few years back, that house was for Is that the outside of it? Yeah. Wow. How dope. A few years back, the

92:00house was for sale. It's an epic epic house. You think he's like, "I'll my dog, too. I'm not afraid." But they had a really hard time selling it because it was worth a lot of money. Look at that place, man. It was worth a lot of money. And it wasn't the kind of house that a normal person could live in. It had like one bedroom. Will Chamberlain's bungalow. Did you see that? No. Look at that pool tables like where his knees are. It's hilarious. I wonder if that house ever sold. It might be one of those things that he just keeps selling and buying. But it's really funky, like modern for the 1980s looking. It's a dope crib, man. Oh yeah, man. Look at that place. It's all angular and Like a transformer. Two two and a half acres. Like it's you're expected to go, what's something like that sell for now here? Even if it wasn't Will Chamberlain's house, would something like that?

92:51That's a $10 million house. $10 million. Depending on where it is. If that's in the Hollywood Hills. Yeah, that crazy palace with the the way his pool is. Like, look at it. All the I mean, that's a piece of art. That's not just a house. You'd have to have the right buyer. What am I real estate guy? Look at them flipping houses all of a sudden. Do I know? I don't even know how much toothpaste cost. I'm telling you how much this house is. I like to say 10 million though. It's a good number. Want to say it's a dope house. No less than 10 million. Yeah. In 2007 it was 10.5 million. They I know what the I'm talking about. Come on, man. 10. The.5 is the negotiating. That's where That's the wiggle room. It's down from 11.5. So, it sold 200 like eight years ago. So, that's how much it was for sale. Uhuh. It was listed at 11.5 and then was down to 10.5. So, it might still be available.

93:45No, I bet. Well, I bet a house like that people buy it and they go, "What the are we doing here?" Let's make some money. It's in Bair. And then they sell that thing. Oh, Bair. Yeah, that's a expensive neighborhood. Dope views. Must be good to be Will Chamber back with no internet, no Twitter, no Facebook, just all dick. Yeah, those guys religious could I mean free-for-all. Oh yeah. Come on, man. It's chaos. The president President Kennedy was on a free-for-all. I mean, imagine that. The president just going buckw. What's amazing is that everyone in the news, like all the reporters, they all knew it. Yeah. They didn't they didn't talk about it. There was no stories written about it. Well, I wonder what that shift was. The shift was in America where they decided that they were just going to talk about everything. Like what caused they knew it sold? Yeah, I guess so. Right.

94:35Once they figure out that's all people want is gossip, then they think it was like once there was too many different distribution methods. It seems like that's what it is, right? Like if you only have like a couple of different newspapers and a couple of different television shows, it can all be kind of controlled. Mean monopoly. Yeah. Yeah. And you also put pressure on the the reporters probably did not reveal that leaks and that kind of I mean it's you know there was something on the radio in the car when I was coming here about there was a big documentary. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't gotten into it. I just heard the cliff notes but it sounds pretty heavy. It's supposed to be the biggest leak of documentary millions of pages or Yeah. And apparently it just shows all this crazy collusion between world leaders and financial institutions. I used to obsess about that and I

95:20wanted to know, you know, like, man. But now at this stage in my life, I mean, I just go ahead and assume, yeah, that it's all crooked. So, it is definitely all crooked. But you know what I think, man? I don't even think I mean, I think everybody's got to pay attention to it, obviously. I mean, we're all paying attention to it, but I don't think it's sustainable. I don't think you could do it anymore. I think these leaks are going to come more and more frequently and they're going to be more and more accessible and more and more easy to get. I just don't think you're going to be able to people like that anymore. I just don't think you could do it. Even the government, I don't think they could do it anymore. I think what they're doing now, even right now, they're like clinging, just hanging on to this thing while it's shaking apart around them. The Apple fiasco and all.

96:06They're not supposed to be in control of us, man. That's the bottom line. You're not supposed to be in control of Jamie. Jaime's not supposed to be in control of me and the government's not supposed to be in control of you. There's supposed to be some operating principles that we all commune under. And our community should be established in a way that benefits us, not the big banks, not the politicians, not Hillary Clinton giving $250,000 speak speeches to a bunch of Wall Street people. That's all nonsense. And that's some old that we just assume we have to stay with because it's been this way from the jump. It's been this way since we were kids. Well, my parents grew up with it. and this is the system. They're staying with this system, not because it's the best, but because they figure out a the best way to extract money from it. You can't. You're not going to be able to do it. It's not

96:51going to happen. Once President Trump gets in office, everyone's going to realize what a goddamn joke of a system we've put in place. And there'll be some real talk about having some kind of a radical reform. Like what if they could just fire members of of the Senate or the House of Representatives or Congress that you're fired, you know? You can't just say we're not going to do our jobs. Yeah. You know, well, there's just too many people that you don't know that have any say whatsoever on how you live your life. like the idea that the Senate or that Congress or that the Supreme Court or any of these people could sit down and decide like what you can and can't do with your body, what substances you can or can't put into them, what shouldn't shouldn't be illegal, like that you you shouldn't be able to decide that. That Nixon thing the other day was pretty interesting about where they were

97:45just like, "Yeah, we don't this doesn't do anything. We just, you know." Yeah. Well, tell people what it was. Uh they there was a former aid, I think. Was that was that right? Somebody in his Yeah. Someone who basically came out and said that the war on drugs was propagated to suppress minorities and uh anti-war movement. Anti-war movement and that they they knew that there was no threat there and that it wasn't doing anything harmful to people and and basically they're on tape talking about it and laughing. Unbelievable. It's that somebody on late night the other night when it came out they said it perfectly like that even from the grave that guy manages to cultivate more hatred. He was so crazy dude. What an evil bastard. Here he goes. Last week, a quote from Richard Nixon's former chief domestic adviser, John Eric Ericman. E H R I C H E Eman surfaced, confirming a disgusting

98:37truth that's been very well known by black folks by for several decades. The war on drugs had nothing to do with eradicating a drug epidemic. Instead, it was a ploy to hide for the intentional targeting and decimating of the black community. Well, as well as this paragraph is the the real dinger. This is Ericman's words. He said, "The Nixon campaign in 1968 and the Nixon White House after that had two enemies. The anti-war left and black people." You understand what I'm saying? We knew that we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black. But by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and the blacks with heroin and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. Wow. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them right night after night on the evening news. Holy Did we know we were

99:25lying about drugs? Of course we did. Whoa. Damn. That's dark. That guy's only concentrating on black people, though. Did you go to an all black site? That guy is just wants to talk about the black part. He's got a big smiling black face. The whole thing's disgusting. It's it's disgusting that we live under the echoes of all these morons that were running the country back then. All these creeps that could get away with Just like Wilt Chamberlain's up there banging up a storm and Marvin Gay coked up in Tanga Canyon with a 17-year-old. You can get away with anything back then. Apparently, you still can. R. Kelly R. Kelly allegedly, but that's, you know, if you're Dick Chan, you could just shoot people in the face, man. Like, literally. Yeah, literally. Well, those Do you know what he was doing? It's a canned hunt. It's a Those are weird, man. Do you know what that is?

100:20That's where they go out and you're basically guaranteed a trophy. No, man. They're they're bird hunting. So, what happens is they go out and they um they open up these boxes of birds and the birds fly out and they shoot him and he still shot somebody in the face. He still shot somebody in the face. And he didn't talk about he wouldn't talk to anybody for like 16 hours afterwards. He was probably hammered straight, man. He was hammered. Oh, man. Most likely he was hammered. Yeah, allegedly. Allegedly. Can he still sue even though he doesn't have a heart? Has like an artificial heart. Is he still allowed to sue? But he shot his friend in the face and his friend apologized. That's how gangster Dick Cheney is. Wow. His friend was like 60. Walked it off. Sorry I walked in front of your bullets, bro. Yeah. They were probably lit out of their mind just and the the you

101:12want to talk about PTSD. Do you imagine the demons inside the brain of Dick Cheney? The just knowing what he knows. Could you imagine? I mean, if that guy has an ounce of self-realization, an ounce of of objectivity, of introspective thought, where he's really thinks about, did I do the right thing? Was I Do you think Do you think um that um weapons of mass destruction you think that was cool? Was that Was that okay? There's only a few hundred thousand men. A million people died, but but it was probably for the best historically. I mean, they were going to die anyway. It's not like there a million immortals, right? I mean, what you asking? Do I think No, I'm former Vice President Dick Cheney seeks daily affirmation. Well, he's a biblical character in that right after he had done all these things, right? He clearly pulled the strings to get us into Iraq and there's

102:09clearly financial motives. I mean, he was the goddamn CEO of the company that got no bid, billion dollar contract for Palpatine, man. He's a damn Sith Lord. Like Bush, like him or hate him, he thought he was doing the right thing, you know, like the guy believed. Well, this is the thing, the undeniable biblical thing about him. So, the guy has a ton of heart attacks, right? Yeah. They replaced his heart. They replaced his valves with some machine. And this machine constantly pumped blood to the point where he didn't have a pulse. It was a constant flow. So, if you put your finger on Dick Cheney while he had this artificial heart in place, he wouldn't have a pulse. It's Darth Vader. He's Darth Vader. He's Darth Vader. He's like the old man at the era in Prometheus that was like pretending to be dead and you know? Pull make sure that's true. I'm pretty sure I'm correct about that, Jamie.

103:05Pull that up about about Dick Cheny's heart being artificial and not having a pulse. Okay. Yeah. I was just reading about the actual event on how it happened and he shot him in the face and they blamed the guy Whittington is his name for walking in front of him. Ah, a idiot. Listen, man. You don't point your gun where people are. The guy didn't walk in front of you. That's crazy. As a person who fires guns, you don't ever point your gun anywhere near a person. If a person walks in front, you pull your gun away from where that person is. If you you have to be aware of your left and your right at all times. You don't stand in front of somebody. The guy didn't just It's not that guy's fault. Bionic Dick Cheney technically has no pulse. Here it goes. During a recent heart surgery, doctors implanted a ventricular assist device to augment Cheny's failing ticker. But it also gives his critics

103:58another punchline to work with because the device moves blood continuously. It doesn't mimic the pulsating rhythm of the heartbeat. Technically speaking, Dick Cheney no longer has a pulse. Insert Darth Vader comparisons here. And this was in 2010. And that dude's still kicking. That's amazing, man. I used to do this bit about Dick Cheney where he had one extra Secret Service agent. Like every other guy had five, but he had six. And this one they they put him on like this all vegetarian diet and they had to do jogging every day. He's like, "Why the do I have to jog?" And there was always a guy behind them with a a giant cooler filled with ice. And the moment Dick Cheney has a heart attack, they were going to take that dude out, cut his chest open, shove his heart inside of Dick Cheney, and save Dick Cheney. was just one extra secret service agent that was a sacrifice.

104:49He's a dark guy, man. He He was the CEO of the company that profited the most from them blowing up in Iraq, bro. Uh around the time that that I was in the Navy, the uh they had this they reimplemented this anthrax vaccination policy that uh I think they they done it in the first Gulf War too. And a lot of people think it's directly what's responsible for the Gulf War syndrome and all those guys like dealing with chronic muscle spasms and fatigue and really um so yeah, but like they they it came down the pipeline again. They were going to they're going to make it a mandatory thing for everybody and then uh I think in ' 98 they recalled it. I can't remember 98 or 99, but the times and all these people had already kind of dug in and figured out that the there was only one lab in the entire world authorized and regulated to manufacture the vaccine called I think their lab was Bioport up

105:48in Michigan. And one of the owners of the lab was a former admiral of the Navy and also on the joint chiefs of staff. I think his last name was Crow. And this guy, so you're telling me that dude didn't know that this contract, this major multi-billion dollar defense contract coming down the pipeline and then jumps in and buys this company, you know, to start pumping people with that they have no idea. And it actually got the lab got shut down while they're manufacturing all this stuff. So who knows how many hundreds of thousands of people had to put that in their body, you know, and they will experiment on soldiers. They have done it in the past. is the precedent has been set a long time ago. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I I remember boot camp. You go down this cattle line and there's like six people and you just keep going through and you go through it's like all these like

106:40shots, guns. I have no idea to this day what a lot of it even was. Man, I got stationed overseas. So we had to take a bunch of typhoid and but there's a whole lot of on. They don't even tell you what they're putting in you. You know they don't have but like for a week you can't lift your arms up. You know what I You're just like, how is that? Is that they don't have to tell you? Tell you. They don't have to tell you. No. That's crazy that they can just shoot vaccinations in you and they don't have to tell you what they're doing. I If you refuse to take them, they put you in prison. Really? Yeah. Or the Brig, you know, like a lot of guys. How long they put you in for? Till you give in? No. I knew guys that I think it was like 90 days restriction. That's it. Yeah. And then they don't they don't have to shoot you when you get out? No. No. No, it's not like that. It's

107:25just it's one of those. But I mean, it was obviously about making money. You know, because I mean anthrax, let's say, okay, say you get hit with weaponized anthrax. All right. Even if you've been vaccinated, it's it's a spore. It's a virus. It's going to mutate as soon as it hits the air. So, you know, I guess the the argument or the reasoning was that it might make you live 30 or 40 extra seconds longer so you can hit the button and launch some more missiles at them. I don't know what the reason behind it was, but uh yeah, a lot of it was a big deal. I remember when that story came out, they found out that the the admiral owned the company, you know what I mean? It's like, wait a minute, what? That's so crazy. Is this legal? That's so crazy. I wonder if he took the shot. I doubt it. Well, I'd heard that Gulf War syndrome was uh connected to depleted uranium. Maybe it was a several

108:15several different factors. Who knows, man? Yeah, many different factors cuz they know that they definitely used depleted uranium in shells as anti-tank weapons. That's been proven and that was something that they were never supposed to use. And the halflife on that is something like a 100,000 years or something nutty. So there's these places in Iraq to this day that are just fucksville from these these depleted uranium shells slamming into tanks and then soldiers would take pieces from those tanks as memories. You know, they take them home as souvenirs. And so you're carrying something that's highly radioactive. Like those depleted uranium shells, it's like literally nuclear waste, right? And they use that as a shell and it just goes through everything. I mean, you're harnessing the power of the sun to blow a hole through a jeep and then these poor you know,

109:11they they stumble upon this Jeep and nobody had told them and they're, "Hey, man, I'm going to take this license plate home." You shouldn't even be anywhere near that. You shouldn't even be a mile away from that Jeep. Meanwhile, they're hanging around that goddamn thing. Who knows, man? My grandfather was in the South Pacific during World War II and even as an older man, he must have gotten something in his blood over there because it'd be the middle of July and he'd be sitting in the house with like long johns and corduroy pants and a flannel shirt on talking about I'm cold, you know? Jesus. It's like So, I mean, there must have been some of this nerve gas or Well, maybe even just tropical diseases. Yeah. I talked to this this um guy. He's a um an expert infectious diseases. His name is uh Peter Hotz. He's a um professor I think at the University of Houston. Um

110:06but he's a specializes in diseases that people get in tropical climates. And he told me that when you look at a tropical environment, 100 of those people are infected with some sort of parasite. 100% over builds up resistance to it. Well, they just they or not or they're affected by it. Like we were talking about um all sorts of different uh moisture born bacterial diseases that people get from dirty water and stuff that you just get from bugs and you get from the air and it's a jungle, man. You're basically living in a petri dish. Yep. You live in a nice new shit's coming to life every day. Yeah. I mean, if you think about the jungle, right? If you go there and you see all that vegetation, all right, every around you is just life and crickets and bugs and snakes and spiders and cats and sloths and eagles and monkeys and Whoa. Like, there's so much life there that it's at a macro level,

111:06too. It's at a micro level. Like, there's life that you're not going to see. It's going to get into your body crawling up your right now while you're swimming or, you know, eating. It becomes a part of you. Yeah. Like they they have these parasites that become a part of you. A buddy of mine got tchinosis. Oh, dude. Yeah. Jesus. He got tchinosis from eating uh bear meat that wasn't cooked that well. Actually, he was on the show. His name is Steve Reell. He's uh hosted this show called Meat Eater. And he was on the show with a bunch of other crew members. They all ate this bear. And they all they didn't cook it well. They didn't cook it well enough. They were joking about getting tchinosis at the time. So, they all got tchinosis. So they have these little tiny worms, these larvae that are in their body forever growing. Well, they don't grow. They just stay

111:51dormant in your body until someone comes along. Say if you ate Steve Vanilla and you didn't cook them to60°, you would get tchinosis from him. Like it's in him forever. Just Yeah. Just part of the deal. And he said he was like really deathly sick for like seven days. Felt like Like he had the flu in pain all the time. Was aching in pain. and then it went away and then it just you just deal with the fact that now you have tchinosis. But like in these tropical environments, there's tons of people that have all sorts of crazy parasites in their body. Dysentery or malaria, any damn thing. Yeah. And some parasites they're just starting to now understand. There's parasites that affect behavior. Like there's some called toxopplasmosis. You heard of that one? The cat parasite. Plasmosis. All you can die from smelling bird man. Like Dude, one of the creepiest stories I've

112:44ever heard was these guys in Africa. They were standing in front of a cave. I think it was Africa and they were standing in front of a cave and there were scientists and they wanted to photograph these birds fly or these bats rather flying out of the cave when they would go out at night because you know the bats leave caves in mass and there was millions of bats, literally millions of bats in this cave. And so they parked out in front of this cave, set up the camps of bat too. Exactly. They got on. That's what they didn't anticipate. Oh, while they're flying out of the cave, they fly on. They got on and they got deathly ill and they were dead within weeks. Both guys died. They died I saw a thing on TV about that. Yeah, they died from hemorrhagic viruses, which means they start bleeding on their eyeballs. That's what you get for going and looking in bat caves, man.

113:31Well, bring that raincoat, son. Some goggles. Yeah, man. You got to Don't eat it. Definitely don't eat it. But it gets in your skin. Like you can't have that on your skin. Like you can get sick just from it contacting your face, but bat dirty bat shits on your face. You could probably die. I'd want to. Yeah. Oh man, there's so so many parts of the world where there's so much life and that life is so much more dangerous. We're just so used to life being like, "Oh, look at the squirrel. I love wildlife. Look at that bird. So cute. Yeah, you always hear about these people like talking about going down to Ecuador and Peru to do Iaska. I'm like, that. I don't want to go out there in that damn jungle with all those bugs and caterpillars and snakes crawling up my leg. They say that's part of the experience is going to the jungle, but yeah, you could do that in Malibu. You can do it in Malibu.

114:27Good, man. You could just sit down in the house. I'll do the cliff notes. The cliff notes is DMT. Man, I think going to the jungle would probably be pretty badass, but you have to man all running around in the woods. You're out there. Yeah. Yeah. You have to have people that are awake with spotlights and guns. Yeah. You don't want to be that one dude that goes to South America and gets jacked by a leopard. I was just asleep in this tree. Jaguar. Jaguar. Jaguar. Jaguar. South America. Right. Leopards. Uh, Africa. Asia. That sounds right. So, yeah, man. This has been a a national geographic podcast man. They often times are. You know a guy named Steve Mirs. Mirrors. How you spell his last name? He's a British guy. He's like a naturalist and knows he's like a probably a master survivalist, but uh I think it's Mirror. Steve, look it up. Steve Mirs, man. You should try to get

115:21him on the show sometime. I used when I I used to sit and just watch hours of YouTube videos. cuz he's like one of the you can just tell he's just like a beautiful human being but he knows all about um it's like Bear Grills and Mr. Rogers, you know what I mean? Combined together, but a little bit more legit on the knowledge side than Bear Grills. Bear Grills was legit, but Bear Grills got compromised by Hollywood. Hollywood. Do you know why Bear Grills got that show? I have no idea. Give you some information. Drinking his piss. Nope. Less Straoud, Survivor Man, did not want to fake anything. Less Straoud did all his own He went by himself. He put himself in danger situations. He lost tons of weight on camera where he was literally starving to death. He documented the entire thing. Encounters, 100% by himself, encounters with wild animals, like really dangerous situations, almost

116:13starving to death, almost freezing to death, having to make fire on your own, and going there with a very limited amount of things to keep. Like he would go there with like a pocketk knife. He'd allow himself some string that he could go fishing with, go, and he would stay for seven days and have a drop off point where they would drop him off, then a pickup point, and if he didn't go to the pickup point, then they' have to go looking for him. But they wanted to fake stuff and Bear Bear Grills filled that gap cuz Les wouldn't fake anything. He's like, "No, we're not bringing a camera crew cuz then it's not me by myself." You lose all of what makes the show special. So what he did is just a bunch of things that like they set up like if I found this sheep I could take it and make a coat, you know, like the they put the sheep there. They killed the sheep. They they did it for him.

116:58Better drink my piss. Like he'd be like doing all these stunts like jumping from tree to tree. Unnecessary. Look at hanging out with hippos. Is it this guy? No, his name is Steve Blackshaw. I can't find a Steve. What was his last name? Steve Ray Mirs. Ray. Rays. This guy's hanging out with hippos. That guy's That guy's insane. Ray Mir's gangster. There's a show called Carter's War and it's um this show about this guy who is uh an anti anti- poaching um official in Africa and he tries to prevent uh them from poaching all these animals. A lot of it is for um the Asian market for rhino horn and a bunch of these different animals that they want like ivory from and rhino horn's a big one though. They keep finding these rhinos murdered with their horns hacked off. It's a sobering show, man. For two reasons. One, because you see what people are willing to do to these

117:55animals. Just shoot them in the head and cut their horns off and cut half their face off with like a chainsaw and It's crazy. And then also you see how poor these people are. And then you realize like they of course they're going to do that. Like if they can shoot that rhino and make $50,000 from its magic horn, you know, or whatever the they make, they probably make 50 bucks, you know? But if they can make that and it's between them starving and not starving, like that's literally what you're looking at. Yep. Everything's subjective. Is this the gentleman? That's him. The show's called Bushcraft. Bushcraft. He's hanging out with a wolf. Look at this He knows the wolves. He's like He's like the most unassuming guy ever, but he's he's so badass, dude. It's called Bushcraft. Bushcraft. Yeah. Is it an English show or an Australian show? English. Yeah. On the BBC, I believe. Oh, man.

118:46Yeah. Dude will just walk out in the woods with with nothing but a damn Oh, there he is. There a fish with the Looks like some piece of meat or something. You got Yeah, these guys that are into like surviving on their own like that they take great pleasure with that. They're always fascinating. He's really more of a naturalist too. Like fauna and natural vegetation and finding foraging food on your own. That kind. It's a lot of more useful information than just okay, you got three days, drink your piss and don't get eaten by an alligator. Here we go. You know, it's like no man. Well, Survivor Man came up Les came up with all that on his own. That's his concept cuz he was actually living in the forest with his pregnant wife. Uh the two of them there by themselves when he was a younger man. Like he did this on his own before, you know, before he was famous. Like he's been doing this

119:40forever. What's his background? Where did he learn it all? He just I don't know, man. That's a good question. He told me I forgot. I think uh he just learned. No, I remember watching like that dude is suffering. Oh, yeah. For those 30 minutes of viewing entertainment. Yeah. He's got this wacky thing he's doing now, though. He's looking for Bigfoot. He's got a Survivor, man. Bigfoot is like the biggest thing since sliced bread. Levvenworth, Washington. That's where he is. That's where he's at. Did you see him? Yeah. So, we got a cup of coffee on the side of the road one day and this lady had a whole photo album full of pictures of Bigfoot in her backyard. Showed him. It looked like some Like her neighbor jacking off. Yeah. She's selling coffee though. Yeah. I talked to one lady when I was doing this uh sci-fi show. We did a whole episode on Bigfoot. One lady that I really

120:29believe saw something. I really believe she did. But what I think she probably saw was a black bear because black bears walk on their hind legs. Um there's video of black bears walking like a hundred yards. I believe her. She was very earnest in what she was talking about. It was sensational in any in any way at all. What she was telling me was pretty pretty straightforward. And I also believe her because there's black bears in that area. Um it's incredibly densely wooded. Like the area that she's talking about was the Pacific Northwest. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's wildness, man. I guess Mount Reineer. Is that Mount Reineer? That's right outside of Washington. Right. Right side of Seattle. It's gorgeous. If that big hairy is real, that's the only place he could possibly exist cuz you could absolutely disappear in that forest, man. That's some dense dense wilderness

121:19and filled with food. Filled with food. Filled with uh Definitely not me saying I believe in Bigfoot. Yeah, you're you're 100% correct though. If there was an animal like that, that would be the spot. It also would be the spot because that's the spot where it would make sense geographically. My feeling is what I believe I bet it used to be real because at one point in time there was a thing called gigantopithecus that lived in Asia. It was as recently as 100,000 years ago which is not that long and that was when the bearing straight was connected. So Asia and the United States you could actually walk from Asia to the United States that the land mass was in place and the ice age and was all frozen over. So during that time it would have been entirely possible cuz so many Native American cultures have names for that animal. They have names for this like man that lives in the forest

122:12yeti. You know how's the same legend on the other side of the world about some crazy well and it was real, right? And and then also on top of that thing being real, they also know that there was those little hobbit people in the island of Flores. And there's uh the theory about that thing is that it's either the most recent one they think that it might have been as um recently as 50,000 years ago, but I think they thought it was like 14,000 years ago until recently. Look at this. That's a bear, dude. That is a bear. Look at that. That's a real legit black bear. So, imagine if you saw that, you say, "Well, for sure that's big." Especially that last little frame. Yeah. See, when bears hurt their paw, like if they uh get bitten in their paw and their paw gets infected, they can walk on their back legs and they could do it for hundreds of yards. So, I think she saw that

123:02just when you thought they couldn't get any scarier, you know, there's a bunch of videos of bears doing that. It's not just that one bear. So, there's a lot of evidence that bears walk like that. So, this one lady that I talked to, I bet she saw a black bear that was walking on hind legs. That's what I bet. It only makes sense. You can't see anything in there anyway. That's the thing about those woods. You lived up there, right? You lived up Seattle for a minute. Yeah. You can't see in those woods. No. We used to go up there like a little weird Swiss mountain ski town called Levvenworth. I don't know. A buddy of mine, we drove there on our way to Vancouver to go partying or I know that was like farther east, I think. But it's like just, you know, in the middle of nothing, man. Just trees, right? You could you could just walk off into it and disappear.

123:48Well, less when he was camping, he was doing an episode of Survivor Man and he was up in Alaska and um he says that he heard some noise outside of his tent and he barely moved. Like he didn't he didn't want to move. He wanted to see if he could get to his camera and uh try to record this. And he heard something that sounded like a primate, something like made like some primate type noise. And then when he uh went to open up his tent and look outside, the thing took off. Took off running. And he said it sounded like bipeedal footprints. Like a large heavy bipeedal thing. The problem is I've heard bears make that kind of sound. I've heard them personally seen them with my eyes fighting with each other. They go they they make like a almost like a gorilla sound and they're attacking each other and they're like they were they were they're making this crazy noise. It

124:46was a mother trying to keep a a male bear away from her cubs and she was they fought they fought right in front of us like within a hundred yards. I watched them duke it out UFC style. Where were you? Alberta. I was watching it go down. man. So, I've heard bears make like a monkey sound. That makes much more practical sense to me than a 7 foot tall Chewbacca that no one's ever seem to be able to lay eyes or or hands on, you know? Well, we got drones now, man. I wanted to believe so bad. That's why the one thing I want to believe in almost as much as aliens as UFO reports. Aliens and UFOs are like the one those that's the onetwo punch for what you want to believe in, man. Yeah. Other than love. Well, that too. It's all about love, bro. Uh I don't know. We don't want to go down that rabbit hole. Yeah. Black holes and infinite multiveres. Well, I I without a doubt

125:48kind of egotistical to life out there that we're the Yeah. But yeah, I guess the question is why would they care? Well, or maybe they do. I mean, this is pretty interesting. I'd watch it. You know, for sure. I mean, come on, man. We study turtles. You know, dudes travel to the jungle to study a butterfly. Some heavy stuff going on on the back of a turtle. Joe Rogan, that's true. Not to demean turtles. Look, if turtles were on the moon, oh my god, we'd be flying jets to to visit. Oldest oldest known species on Earth, they outdid crocodiles. Really? Whoa. Uh, yeah. The turtles been around longer than any other living creature on the planet. They're like um nail clippers. They never had to make them any better. It's a perfect design. Yeah. Like when I was a kid, nail clippers were exactly the same. They haven't done anything. I mean, they've made better can openers. They've made uh

126:39better Tupperware. Yeah. They've improved almost every aspect. I guess steak knives are pretty much the same. Even even the number of uh like the the the shell, you know, the the you know, it's like the symmetrical patterns of the shell. There's 13 no matter how big they are or small. So like a lot of Indians believe that that coincided with the 13 lunar cycles of the moon. Yeah. I I made a whole album cover all about this I was just like me and the guys like how weird can we get with this thing? This just make the tackiest record cover ever. They are a very fascinating creature. I mean, anytime you see patterns, like even like a nautilus shell, see these patterns, these repeating patterns that the animals have, like you go, okay, well, why is there some sort of a geometric pattern into this animal's design, you know? It's almost almost fractal really. Oh, it is. Yeah, it's Well, it's a

127:35Fibonacci sequence. The Fibonacci sequence um manifests itself in like sunflowers. Like they they say like if you look at a pine cone the Fibonacci sequence is in a pine cone meaning the it's a sequence of numbers like zero and then there's one and then there's and then there's two and 1 plus two and there's three and 3 + 2 is five and then 5 plus 3 is 8 and it keeps going uh on and on and on and it's this exponential equation. And when you're adding all those things up, that same sequence can be found in the shape of people's faces and um honeycombs and a bunch of different designs like pine cones. There's there you see Jamie's got some stuff they pull up of it. The Fibonacci numbers in nature. There's this crazy green fruit that's always at my uh it might be a vegetable. That's it. What is that thing? That fruit. Broccoli. Yeah. What is it? Romanesque broccoli.

128:29Romanesque broccoli. It's like the DMT fruit. Like when you look at that, like that is fractal geometry in fruit form or in vegetable form rather. Really weird. But that's the Fibonacci sequence. Like if you go to the very top and you see how small it is. See? And then it as it tapers down, it gets larger and the numbers all exponentially increase. It's just so fascinating. Tulle incorporates a lot of that in the time signatures of their music. Yes. Yeah. I really didn't know that band for a while when I was younger. Do you know that uh Mayor Keen is going to fight Ronda Rousey in an MMA match? I did not know that, but I knew he was. And if he loses, he's getting a sex change. You're bullshitting me. Of course I am. I'm trying to help spread a rumor. Awesome. I'll show you some pictures afterwards. He He does. Is he like a jiu-jitsu guy? Yeah, I believe he's got his purple

129:19belt. I'm pretty sure he's got his purple belt. But he's very dedicated. He's so dedicated he got a hip replacement and went back to training. Badass. Here it goes. Fight Ronda Rouse. Look at it. Awesome. He's He's a character. I love that dude. You ever met him? Oh, yeah. I hung out with him. Really? Couple He's been on the show a couple times. He's a good dude. He's great. Great lyricist, man. Yeah. I really when I lived out there, it was all kinds of music I just discovered that I probably never would have gotten into otherwise. And that band I really like had a little phase lyrically speaking. And I thought it was some of the more cathartic and kind of sardonic stuff I'd ever heard. Really intelligent way of saying things. I was never a metal guy. He's almost too smart for his own good. He's one of those guys when you talk to him like this. He you might be just in

130:11your own way all the time, right? So it's one of the reasons why I think he decided to start a wine business out of the in the middle of nowhere. I just like and and his wine is excellent. I don't know if you're a wine person. if you like wine. But Kaduciius wine, I just know what I like and I love it. It's great. He has a bunch of different kinds of wines. But uh he's he's a legit wizard when it comes to wine making. He really knows his inside and out. It's not like some sort of a thing that he lean lends his name to, you know, like Orson Wells, we'll sell no wine before it's time. No, this is his wine company. like he has created it and he's also like figured out a way to cultivate grapes in this very weird spot in Arizona where I don't think anybody was doing it before him. So he had to start the thing from scratch. Oh yeah, he did the whole thing from scratch. Take like years.

131:01Yes, he's been doing it for years. He's nuts, man. We've had some longass conversations about it. Yeah, he's one of the coolest people that I talk to all the time. That's ballsy, man. cuz I I don't I might be wrong, but I think you have to bring in a couple harvests and then you won't even know if the grapes are going to be any good if that's a good spot for so you're putting all this money up. Well, you have to analyze the soil and you have to know what you're doing as far as fertilizing it and all there's all there's so many factors involved and how to I mean it's an art. It's a crazy art that you wind up eating. you wind up drinking at the very end of it. But creating the taste, it's like the expression of the art instead of an audible thing like a song. It becomes a pallet thing, but it's a very much like the way he creates music. He creates this wine and it's a form of art. It's

131:57like a mass produc not mass-produced, you know, like Coca-Cola, but he's making more than one bottle. He's got several acres and he creates this art and you experience that art. Instead of listening to a CD, you're experiencing that art when you drink his wine. Very fascinating guy, man. They just played Nashville not too long ago. I was on tour where I probably would have gone. But yeah, I'd say top five shows of all time in my life. Tool is probably at least two of those spots. Really? Yeah, dude. Wow. Yeah. A lot. I mean, it's just they're so incredibly tight live just aesthetically in the presentation and it sound, you know, most like big loud metal shows, it's just it's like Right. Right. It was it was pristine like soundwise and the drummer's a machine. Yeah. Danny Kerry. I wouldn't put them in a metal category. Maybe I'd be wrong. I don't know what you'd call it. It's It

132:47was so unique. I remember hearing it even and thinking that's that's very uh some complex going on, man. Yeah. We're talking about like motivating songs. You ever that that riff in the song Prison Sex? Yeah. You know the beginning when you're lifting weights and that comes on, you can lift more weights, man. You can lift more weights. You feel stronger. You're like, if you're tired, you're on the elliptical machine, now it comes on, you're like, you can push through. I mean, it does something to your body. It energizes you. Like, it's a real feeling that you get. We don't think of it as a real feeling because you can't put it on a scale. It's very visceral music. Yeah. It's re Something's happening to you when you listen to a jam that's done correctly. Oh, I mean, I you know, you hate to think about that. I think those guys actually experimented with frequencies

133:40and uh a lot of those deep down pitch tunings and and time signatures are very some very very very uh eastern melodian time signatures that they're alternating. Yeah. And the off down beat it's it's some heavy man. Heavy heavy. Like they put thought into that music. Well, the one song that they orchestrated to the You can totally manipulate human emotions with tones and keys and vibrations. Oh yeah, man. Well, have you ever around with binaural beats? I mean, not for fun or like on record. Either for fun. I haven't done it either way, but I know that it's real. I mean, I know that people swear by it. It affects your brain waves, man. There's a reason all these tribes throughout history out in the middle of nowhere are banging on drums when they're when they're doing their thing. yeah, man. There's uh Iaros. Ios. I don't know how they say it. But you play

134:32when you do DMT and the DMT entities dance to the eco. I mean like it's a part of the thing. Like when you do them together then you understand it. If you listen to the music independently like weird music. It's kind of trippy but it's weird. I'll play you some of that. You think that shit's mint for people that 100%. Yeah. Well, this is created by a shaman. This this the one that I have on my phone that I play um is created by a shaman. It's by this guy. Let me see if I was homeboy's name in here. I think his name is actually on the um on the recording itself. Let me find it here. God damn it. I don't have it on this. I I was going to say, do you think it's meant I mean other than the people who are naturally from those areas where these things grow out of the ground and occur when they use them to connect with on a religious level their spirit animals and things they believe in, but

135:31you like the tourists going down there and drinking that Uh, how do you feel about that? Well, it's like everything else. You're going to get legit ones and then you're going to get people that realize there's a lot of money in tourists coming out here and taking this wacky and so they figure out how to make it. So you're going to get people that are taking advantage of people. You're going to get people that are, you know, doing all sorts of negative And then you're going to get legit shaman, people that are legitimately involved in the spiritual quest of attaining enlightenment and reaching a neighboring dimension. like they really believe that they're reaching a neighboring dimension, that they're tapping into something that's around us all the time, but that we don't have access to in a normal state of consciousness. And it's a well of souls that you're tapping into.

136:24It's it's some I mean, it's really easy to dismiss, especially for someone who's never experienced it. It's really easy to dismiss and say it's all in your imagination. But for someone who has experienced it, it's very difficult to accept. And it's very difficult for you to say that you know for sure that it's all your imagination if you haven't experienced it. I it's very I I appreciate from a from a um an intelligence standpoint someone's perspective on it that hasn't experienced it. But the reality is until you know what you're talking until you've actually gone into that thing and know how titanically alien it is you you're really just saying things. You're just making noises with your mouth. You don't It's no way. There's no way you could know. It's not like it's Well, I had a dream once and uh it was kind of simp. No, no, no. It's You're not there

137:15anymore. You go to a different place. You experience a different reality, more real than what we normally interpret as reality. That's the most up part about it is it's so much crisper and more vibrant and brighter. And then reality itself seems muted in some odd way. It's almost like we're we're we're like having sex with a condom on, you know, and a big thick trash bag condom and when you pass through to whatever the this other dimension is, that filter, the the the frosted window is removed and you could see it all. The the fog's gone, the clouds are gone, and you just boom, get shot through a cannon to the middle of reality. And that middle of reality is some strange geometric living environment where there's no um there's no threedimensional objects that that aren't touching each other. Everything is connected to everything else. Like there's a bunch of different things.

138:12They're constantly alternating all the time. But there's no space between anything. There's no like like space between you and me. Not in that world. It doesn't exist. There's no space. Everything is everything. It's all together. It's all together. And you feel altogether like for the first time ever. You don't feel like you're sitting in Kenoga Park in a chair with a roof over your head and above that roof is the sky and above the sky is the moon. You don't feel that when you're in this. You feel like you feel down infinite. You feel to the left and to the right infinite. You feel above, but you also feel like you're in a room. It's and it it feels fractal and it's crazy. So, I mean, it might all be in your imagination, but my take on it has always been even if it is, even if you're not going to a well of souls and experiencing God and experiencing purity

139:02and wisdom, it's the same exact experience as if you were. So, even if it is in your imagination, your imagination has pretty cool some amazing I mean, it might it might be that's what you're experiencing. It it it very well might be. It's you don't know and there's no way to tell and it's easy to be cynical. It's easy to be dismissive. It's easy to say, "Oh, come on. These hippies. They think they're experiencing God through some powder that they smoke, you know? Way to go, meatthead." Yeah. Yeah. You really are. It's I mean, it's cute. It's fun to do. It's easy to dismiss it, but once you do it, there's there's no dismissing it when you're there. There's no dismissing it. There's no easy explanation. There's no easy anything once you're there. Once you're in there, you better let go, You better let go. You better not try to wrap your head around this. Just breathe and try not to

139:54freak out. And with that note, ladies and gentlemen, what are you doing in town, man? I got to do uh I don't I don't I gotta I don't got to do anything. We are getting ready to put a record out. And tomorrow we're taping a live show for a radio station and then Wednesday we're taping a song for Conan. Oh, beautiful. And then uh so just a little quick quick trip out. Get to get to finally get the the new band out of rehearsal space and see what's going on though. I'm excited. Nice. It was fun. Last time I went with you to Conan. I never I don't Yeah, it was fun, man. You know, those TV things as they go, it's always a strange dynamic, you know, even even for performers because you get there and you do it and you wait and you do it again for TV and you know, and you do it and you wait and you wait and you wait. But of all of the ones that we played, I think that one and maybe it's just

140:47because it's in California, but there's a far more mellow, laid-back vibe. I think Conan's a really nice guy. The studio space is bigger. A lot of the New York ones are still fun, but they're older, more tight buildings. And the Union crews are on a, you know, they're running at crack tight. Um, so you which may be a better thing to keep your adrenaline up. All day and then at 4:30 like, "Okay, you're on in two minutes." You know, by the way, millions of people are going to watch this. Like, so when is this going to be on? Uh that I'm not sure. We're taping it because we're out here for the other thing as opposed to waiting until the fall when we're actually here on tour. So just bring everybody out. And it's they we've done it twice and but yeah, him and Andy, they've been great to us, man. No, they're awesome, man. He's a great guy. He's a like well-known nice guy. Really?

141:32You can tell he's doing the show. He's a a genuine music lover, too. Listen, man. It's always been fun. We got to do this more often. yeah. Churchill Simpson. Apparently, I'll be coming here every once in a while. Keep it coming. All right, ladies and gentlemen. We'll be back tomorrow with uh Kevin Rose. See you there later. Got to miss. Oh, yeah.