Swapcast - Podcast On A Plane with John Dudley

00:00And we're rolling. Cheers. Cheers. That's only part of a cat lady. I mean, obviously. Yeah, that's just the one. Well, it's the critical part. It is. Without the red wine, the cat lady is not that ridiculous. It's just red wine. It's like tequila and Red Bull. That's normal. I mean, that's like Red Bull and vodka. It's not too crazy. Yeah. You pour the red wine in there and you're like, what are you doing? Now you're just desperate. Now you're just like everyone shows up to a party with what they found in their parents' refrigerator. Yeah. And then the cat lady appears. Have you ever made one of those since then? Yeah, a lot. I turn people on to it all the time. That day was so ridiculous. I've gone into bars where people recognize me and then the waitress comes over and says, the bartender would like to give you this cat lady. And I'm like, what? Yeah.

00:58For people who don't know what we're talking about, the cat lady was a drink that John invented two years ago in Lanai. Two years ago? Yeah, I think it was two years ago. Not last year, the year before that. Two years ago. And it was Shane Dorian, Sam Soholt, Ben O'Brien, John. Remy had left. Yeah, Remy had left. He didn't get to enjoy it. That was the first. We did a podcast in my suite and we just went into the minibar and we just grabbed everything. I don't know about this wee stuff. You came with a full bear hug of just, I could hear clanging happening and you just dropped it in the middle of the table. Like this is what we got. Yeah. You're like, hey, let's podcast. And that's where it all started. By the end, I just was kind of grabbing, I think I was consuming more than most. So I was just reaching around trying to take whatever was left. And then you're like, what the hell are you pouring?

01:51So that was our first year doing this trip. And this year is our third. And man, it is, it is an awesome, first of all, it's an awesome place to get ready for like elk. I think to get ready for anything. Yeah. Anything. If you can successfully, especially if someone's wanting to know like where they rate. I remember last year when I elk hunted with Andy, I told Andy when we were in Montana that this time I'm going to be limited on how much I can hunt with you. Like we'll both go opposite directions. And then after I think two days, Andy said, okay, I realize now how much of my success before was hinging on you navigating me in these like small moments that I didn't really realize how important they were. And I think if you can come here and if you can do you, like if your guide can get you close, but then you just say, I'm going to test only myself from here in, like from the 250 yard mark in,

03:00if you can get it done on an axis here, you can get anything done. Yeah. That's black belt bow hunting skills. Yeah. I think that's black belt skills. Especially if you're taking a long shot and you manage to crawl into place. Because a lot of it is crawling. If you plan on coming out here, folks, bring some knee pads. Luckily, our Sitka gear pants have built-in knee pads. Yep. Which are excellent. But if you use a different kind of camo, first of all, you shouldn't. Second of all, if you do use a different kind of camo, you better get some knee pads. Just the pattern itself looked amazing. Amazing. Like when we were glassing across, when I would glass and look at you, or when I'd look back, you blend it. I mean, it worked really well. It worked great everywhere. The subalpine is the bomb. It's the bomb. I've used a lot of different camo, trying different stuff out. And, you know, I really love First Light.

03:54They make good stuff. But Sitka's the best. They're the best. They just take everything above and beyond. Everything is one step better. You know what's funny? They won't come out and publicly say that subalpine is effective for, like, whitetail or turkeys. Because the gore methodology, I don't know if I said that right, but they have a protocol of having their tests to prove things or be able to make a statement are very vigorous for gore. So because they've never truly tested subalpine to a turkey's vision, they won't come out and publicly say that it's effective for turkeys, even though I can tell you it definitely is. Early season whitetails, midway through the season for whitetails, 100% effective. But what it was truly tested for was subalpine. It was, like, tested for hunting big game. And so they'll say that.

04:54But I can tell you if there's any type of foliage that has a hint of green in it, it is effective. It just breaks everything up so good. Like, when we were at Utah hunting elk, we just blend right in. I would look back a few times and I couldn't tell where you were. Even in those poplars where there was some white and black speckle, it looked amazing. Yeah, it's a perfect breakup pattern. You don't see the human form. For here, what matters most is movement and, I guess, what the environment. Ha-ha. Now we have something a little different. Margarita. Yeah. Yep, that'll work. Yeah, the movement is big. But I became an even bigger believer in the hex suit while I was here. When we had that bird fly by and just land right behind us, I was like, dude, what is wrong with this bird? He had no idea we were there. Yeah, he was right in our business. Yeah, we were just sitting there.

05:54And this bird just flew by and landed right next to us. It started tweeting away. Letting us know. I think you said, you go, what's this thing doing? And I just looked at you. I'm like, that's what things do with the hex. Squirrels jump on my shoulders. Birds, like, try to land on me. What will wig you out is when owls, when I'm in a whitetail stand and owls will come in and be, like, cupped, going to land on your shoulder. If it's a small bird, I'll let them do it. But if it's a squirrel, I'm like, get on there, dude. I'll do that. When it's got talons, I'm like, whoa, like, back off, bro. But I've had several owls just kind of come flying in. They cup up, and they're just going to land on my shoulder. And I have to just wimp out. So the hex suit, for people who don't know, H-E-C-S, the hex suit breaks up. It blocks your electrical signal, right, the electromagnetic signal that your body gives off. Yep.

06:53And it's been proven to work on fish, and it's been proven to work on what other animals? Fish is tested for sure, birds for sure, because migratory birds have had tons of, like, I think, I shouldn't say federal, but, like, granted tests to track migratory birds and how they see. And it's proven that birds do see in electronic fields. So for birds, they say that it's incredibly effective because, like, that's why they've got all that footage, being able to crawl out on geese and people shooting turkeys from just sitting next to nothing, just, you know, being able to do it. But for those, it's really important that your hands and your face mask and everything are fully covered with the hex, where, honestly, I'm going with the major muscle groups for my stuff. I wear the top and the bottom for small game and big game. And I'm a believer, man. Some people are still skeptical, though, right? Yeah.

07:56I mean, you know, some people say, hey, you know, it seems like you're selling snake oil. And I'm like, I get it. I get it. You know, I understand what you're saying. All I can tell you is, like, with bears, they're predatory animals. With bears, my encounters with them has just been weird, you know, how well it works. But then if my camera guy doesn't have it, it seems like I'm picked off more. So I definitely feel like when I've been in my one-on-one situations and I'm fully, you know, fully clothed in it, I wear it all the time. I mean, I guess it'd be easy for me not to, but I always do. I mean, I'm a believer in it for sure. Yeah, I became more of a believer this trip. I felt like there was too many moments, too, where deer were staring at us. And they just didn't know what the hell we were.

08:49Whereas, like, some of the times in the past when I wasn't wearing it, the same sort of situation, the deer would start blowing. And then they would take off. They'd be! And they'd take off. They'd make that crazy barking noise. And they took off. When we got up to your deer and where we, you know, were kind of his final resting place where we took pictures and stuff, did you ever look back to the tree that we were, for those of you who want to know, we're actually on our flight back. This is a flight podcast. Everyone around is like, what's going on? No, we're just podcasting, folks. Did you look back at that tree and see how small that tree really was, dude? Yeah, pretty small. Imagine me and Joe Rogan tucked up next to kind of a bonsai tree. And we had to crawl. I mean, about 80, 90 yards to get to it. 80 or 90 yards crawling. And we get to this tree. And I kind of grab the base of the tree.

09:53And I'm trying to shimmy up the tree just enough. And I figured there was going to be a few axis there. And that's the thing with axis. When they're bedded, you might see one or two that's standing up at the time. But once I got there, I looked back at you. And I'm like giving the signal like, dude, like don't crawl. But like on your belly, scoot. Like just use your fingertips and your nails and like pull yourself to me. Because our cover was probably only two feet tall. And with you with the backpack on, that was about all you could spare. Was just laying flat to your stomach. Yeah. And crawl up to me. And then you got behind me and used me as a blocker to come up. And how many deer were within 80 yards of us? It was a lot. It was a lot. They were everywhere. When I shot the deer, that's when we really realized how many there were. Oh, geez. Because a lot of them popped up. Yeah. Tons. It was pretty crazy.

10:51So let's talk about your shot first. Yeah. Because that was, honestly, that was the highlight of the whole trip for me. Was just hearing that sound. We had the sun hard at our back. I couldn't really see. I was trying to film. So I couldn't really see where your arrow went. I just could see. I could see that broadhead like right past my shoulder. And I was looking at the tip of your broadhead and seeing how still it was. I was like referencing it on something that was behind it. And you were just stable. And I could see your broadhead coming back, back, back, back on the rest. So I knew you were just pulling on that silverback just slow and sweet. And as soon as I heard it go, I just looked right at the axis. And I heard that sound that just, I knew it had found the honey spot. Well, I committed 100% to the silverback last year. When I hunted here, I was using a thumb trigger, which is great.

11:56But these deer are so skittish and these moments are so adrenaline filled. I felt like I made a decision. I'm like, look, I shoot super accurate with the silverback. Why won't I hunt with it? Like, what am I thinking? Am I thinking that I need to make it go off quick? Like, what am I thinking? I'm just going to go to 100% silverback. And I'm super glad that I did because I shot my elk last year in Utah with a silverback. I shot that amazing elk at Tejon Ranch, which is like the furthest I've ever shot an animal. 75 yards, perfect shot in the heart, silverback. I practice with a silverback. I don't practice with anything else. Yeah. Sometimes I'll practice with a knock to it, but I use a silverback so much I don't even think about punching the trigger. Yeah. I don't even think about it. I just put my thumb there and I pull through it the same way I do with a silverback. That's how it is.

12:47People don't realize that there's this window when you have one thing that you really like and you feel comfortable with and you feel like you have control over, which let's just say it's the knock to it or an index finger wrist strap release. And then, yeah, you learn with the silverback and you realize, okay, this is a good training aid. And you're kind of afraid to lose that last little bit of control that you have. But there's that window that if you can push through that, you forget about that feeling. And you just realize this is like you almost realize there is no other option. This is just what I shoot with. Yeah. This is all I use every day. Plus, I can make it go off in a second or two seconds. Once you learn it, right? It's all in the scapula. It's all in that. Preload. Yeah. It's all in that muscle in the middle of the back, the rhomboids. It's all in that. And I shoot with it so much.

13:45You know, I have that archery range at my studio and I'm just constantly shooting. I get there before work. I shoot. After work, I shoot. I'm just constantly shooting, constantly shooting with that thing. So my body knows exactly what to do. That was one of the most satisfying things about this trip. Like, even the shots that I missed. And I missed a couple shots because these animals are so fast. And we took some, you know, long shots. And one of them was 80-something yards. And the arrow was perfectly on track for the boiler room. It was. But that thing saw the arrow or heard the arrow and just like, boink, see ya. They're so fast. The one thing that's different with axis is I don't think axis try to locate a sound and then decide whether or not that sound is dangerous or not. With most animals, what I found is the first reaction is to pinpoint where a foreign sound came from.

14:38And once they're locked onto that, if there's anything following that, then now they kind of react like a fight or flight thing. So I've had, and I can see this a lot in video footage, like with elk where they'll hear the bow and they'll turn and look to where a bow went off. But if they don't hear something coming, they just stand there and the arrow comes in. And I really feel like that with the four-fledged setups we have. I feel like the arrows are quieter than what we've shot in the past, personally. Well, definitely than what I shot last year. Because last year here, I was trying to use a fixed blade. And it was a fixed blade with some holes in it. Yeah. And it was like a whistle of death. Well, on some of those longer shots, the deer would turn, but you could see them look up, like on the footage. Yeah. These, they didn't do that. They just looked our way.

15:27They never looked up to, like, that sound that they could hear coming in. So that's why I think the projectile was good. But these things are just, they're keyed in. And we talked to our buddies Sloan from Yeti and Cole Kramer were over on the main island hunting axis, too. They're on Maui. Oh, yeah. They're on Maui. Hunting axis. And I asked them how they were doing. And they're like, dude, shot a few does, missed a few, lost a few. These things are just crazy. How fast they react and move. And you say it's just, you think it's from tigers. Yeah. You think it's. They evolved to get away from tigers. It's probably what it is. Yeah, they're from India. They were given to King Kamehameha, I think, in the 1800s. But they're just an insanely fast animal. They're so much faster. You think of mule deer as being fast. Like, mule deer are drunk and on pills compared to these things.

16:25Really, they're like, they're so slow. I think these are as fast as a highly pressured South Texas whitetail that's coming to a feeder that's kind of like. Jumpy. Twitching the whole time it's there. And you kind of have to aim. I got to the point where when I was out with Cam, Cam asked me where I am. And I said, dude, my pin was sitting in the corner pocket of the leg and the body. Like, I literally, every time I drew back, I put the pin I wanted on the back of its front leg. I followed that back leg up until it touched the bottom of the body and I was pulling right there. I was pulling on my trigger in a place where my pin, if the arrow hit exactly behind the pin, it would have, like, just shaved hair off its armpit. But that's not where any of the arrows hit. They were all ducking and turning. And I feel like they're moving at least four inches down, possibly more. Yeah. And turning away.

17:36It seems like they duck and spin out. Like, that's their move. Pick the feet up and, like, rotate 180 degrees. Yeah. You agree? Yeah, 100%. They're never, like, darting forward. That's why I think that this is the perfect place to show how effective a rage is. The perfect place to show how effective a large cutting surface arrow is, or broadhead is. Yep. The benefits of it. Giant. Benefits of giant. If you have the variable of not knowing 100% where that arrow could hit, you know you're going to be within an area or a kill zone. Possibly, depending on how fast it's reacting, it might be a little bit outside of that. But, like, the more damage, the better off you are, as long as you're able to still get some penetration. Yeah. And Cam said, too, on the last podcast, he's like, hey, man, I definitely see where there's an application for this. Yeah, and he's a fixed blade fiend.

18:39Do you think you would have got your deer if you would have been shooting a fixed blade head? It's hard to say. I mean, it's hard to say. You know, I think fixed blades, many of them, especially vented ones, they're louder, too. Yeah. That's a factor as well. Yeah. Could have. Nothing really knew what had happened with your shot. I mean, there was a lot of deer there, and it was like, beroom, and then that deer ran off. And that thing had to have been completely expired within three seconds, would it be fair? It sprinted as far as it could get. It was like 50 yards, which, when you see how fast an axis runs, 50 yards is not very long, and it was dead. Seconds. And done. And everything else was just looking around like, what happened? What happened? Yeah, I mean, I had a second shot. I tried to get a second shot on another deer at 70 yards, and that deer ducked the string.

19:33Yeah, because then they were all alert. They were all like, they knew what was up. You shot the RX-3. Love it. It's so, first of all, it's so quiet. It's so quiet. Definitely quieter than an RX-1. Yeah, which I loved. Yeah. I loved the RX-1, but this is better. I mean, those Hoyt engineers, man, they know what they're doing. Yeah. This thing is super quiet and super accurate. Did Cam shoot an RX or did he shoot a Helix? He shot a Helix. Oh, we both? Okay, that's right. I forgot which one he was shooting. I shot the Helix 2. I'm going to switch back to an RX-3, I think, for elk season. People ask me all the time why one over the other. I like to shoot them all because I know people have different price ranges. I don't think one's more accurate than the other. I really like the fact that I can change my grips out on my aluminum riser. Yeah.

20:30If I was honest, I would say I would like it if Hoyt went back to what they used to do on the carbon risers. Why don't they do that? They wanted you to be able to have the ability to shift the new grip left or right, depending on how your natural grip is turning the bow so that you can adjust it to have, like, perfect alignment of the arrow down the center shot of the riser. For you, because obviously we've been shooting together for years, you don't have natural torque in your front hand, so I didn't have to shift it anyway. Your arrow and everything is lined up right down the pipe, like right down the stabilizer, your pin sits right on the outside edge of your shaft. You don't have any torque in the riser at all. You don't even need to move it. But I think some people have a natural ability to kind of grab the handle, so they wanted you to be able to remove that screw, lift the grip off,

21:24and you can move this aluminum plate left or right underneath the plastic grip to kind of compensate for your natural torque. Personally, I'd rather just not have the torque. Yeah. Learn how to not shoot that way. Yeah. That's probably better. Yeah, it's like a Band-Aid. But I did love those knock-on elk plates. Yeah. I love those. I love the way it feels in the hand, too. It's extra grippy, even when you're sweaty. It feels like it really sits in your hand well. I've always said less riser in your hand is better. You know, less in your hand gives you less ability to torque what you're holding on to. Is it the same for pull cues? It depends. Some people like a thin grip pull cue, and that's what they prefer. I have big hands, and I like a fat grip pull cue because there's less movement in my hand. When I hold a pull cue, when it's sitting in my hand, I want my hand to be, like, just dead.

22:25I don't ever want to grip the cue. Really? I don't, like, have a death grip. So your elbow is almost like an upside-down pendulum. My cue sits on, like, you know when Spider-Man hits his web? Those two fingers where Spider-Man uses? Knock-on fingers. That's how I hold my cue. My cue sits on those fingers. Never noticed. And this, so the idea is that it's just like you're almost throwing the cue at the ball. So you're throwing the cue at the cue ball so that you're kind of, like, letting the weight of the cue and the swing of the arm do the work. You're not death-gripping it and jerking it and punching it. You don't ever want to punch the cue ball. Yeah, like me. You want to be relaxed. The whole idea is to be relaxed. When I'm playing at my very best, I'm barely gripping the cue, and I'm letting the natural texture of the wrap sit in my hand.

23:17And that's one of the reasons why a lot of times I like to use a rapless cue, which is just wood with, you know, an enamel or, I mean, some lacquer cover on it. And then I put beeswax on the lacquer, and that's my favorite because it just sits in the hand. And it's tacky, and I don't have to grip it at all. And I just let the cue do all the work. And it's like the more you can relax, and the more I play, like I play for a few hours, then I get real relaxed. And then I can really just sort of, like, gently move my arm and let the cue stick move the cue ball and do all the work. You're the same with archery. Me, it's like I can come out of the gate and feel really relaxed and feel effortless as I shoot. And then as I fatigue, I obviously feel like I'm putting more effort in. When I'm ready to pack up, you're just starting to loosen up. And it's the same with pool. You can play pool forever.

24:11I mean, I've had to just be like, hey, dude, I'm done. You're like, I'm just getting loosened up. Yeah, I get loosened up about eight hours in. With pool, the guys that look like they're not putting any effort in, is that when they're – with archery, when guys look super comfortable, like, you almost feel like the bow isn't real. You watch them – you look at them at full draw, and you realize it doesn't even look like they're holding 60-pound. Not like – they look – everything isn't in line. Everything's efficient. Yeah. They look effortless. Is it the same with pool? Exactly the same. Yeah, when you see someone tighten up from nerves, you see their hand grip the cue different, and you see movement. You see, like, the cue goes a little bit left, a little bit right. They put unnecessary and accidental English on the cue ball.

25:06Yeah, it's one of those things where the more you can stay calm, the more you can relax and rely on technique. That's one of the reasons why archery is so attractive to me, because there's so many parallels with pool. So many. And martial arts as well. One thing you said the other day that I really, really liked, and I don't know how we got on the subject. It might have been yesterday, but we were talking about how sometimes in sport, for me, it's easy – it always seems easy to forget the basics. Like, I forget – and all of a sudden, I'll be coaching someone new or something, and I realize they're asking this question. It's like, oh, man, yeah, I'm taking for granted this basic. Yeah. But for you, you said with comedy, you never do that, which I think has to make you better at it.

25:56Because you – and actually, with my school of knock, what I do to myself every year in December, every year in December, I'm like, okay, whatever I've done this past year doesn't matter. I'm going to wipe the slate clean. I'm going to start with shooting enough arrows to where I can build some stamina practicing. And then I'm just going to focus on my fundamentals one week at a time to try to back up. It's not as – it's not going back as far in the basics as, I think, what you were talking about. But it's still – it's still a really cool, like, training aspect. Yeah. Isn't it? Yeah. Well, what we're talking about, what you're saying is every two years, I write a whole new act. And I start – I'm like a beginner again. I'm a beginner who knows how to do comedy, but I don't have any new material. My material is – or I don't have any old material. My material is all new.

26:48So I have to figure out how to make it work. And all these people are paying to see me. So I have to work really hard at it. So I can't be lazy and I can't take it for granted. And it's like I become almost like a beginner again every two years. Every year lately because of the Netflix special. Yeah. Well, it's two – yeah, it's two years in between specials. Every special – I did one in 2014, 2016, 2018. So I'm on, like, a two-year schedule, which seems to me to be the right way to do it. Yeah. Because – You can polish. Yeah. You can get – but what's most important is when that special comes out, like my last one came out in October of last year, of 2018. And that special is out, that material is dead. Yeah. It's gone. You can't say it again. So then I move to the new material and then I have to write. And I have to – so I have all these people coming to see me.

27:44So there's no way you're ever relaxed or too comfortable or you can't take it for granted. You have to always be nervous and always be on the ball and always be working hard. And always be concentrating on the fundamentals of comedy, like making sure that you're using the economy of words, making sure that you're saying things in a way that makes sense to people, the best way to get it to people, and sneak in the punchlines where they don't see them coming and have premises that are good and address those premises in a way that's, like, the most smooth way to do it. And so it requires a lot of thinking about comedy, a lot. It seems like you're in the perfect place, too, being so close to the store. Oh, yeah. For you to be able to go to the comedy store. I mean, can you think of something that morning and be like, I want to try this? Yeah, I think it's on my way to the comedy store. Really?

28:37Yeah, all the time. And you're like, I'm just going to throw this out there. Throw it out there. Yep, throw it out there. See, sink or swim. Sometimes they sink and you've got to acknowledge it. You've got to let the people know, all right, that was a new joke and that sucked. We're going to keep going. And the people get a kick out of it because they know that you're trying things out. Like, all the people that really know comedy, and that's actually one of the beautiful things about the comedy store, is how many comedy fans, like, real aficionados go there. People who, you know, they know that they can go there. And any night of the week they can see some of the best headliners on the planet. Yeah. And they know the process. They understand. Particularly one of the beautiful things about podcasts is that through podcasts, we talk about it all the time. We talk about that process.

29:23So the people that listen to my podcast and many other comedians' podcasts, they understand our process now where they didn't before. Yeah. Ten years ago, people had no idea how comedians wrote jokes. Yeah. Now they know the people that are really big fans, they know really well. I've seen some of your lineups where just it happens to be where those guys go to the store. And it's not like it's a lineup. It could be a freaking comedy all-star match. Oh, yeah. I mean, I've seen names on that top sign where I'm like, Jesus, if you went there that night, you're like hitting the best of the best. On the planet. On the planet. And it's $20. $20. And you might see Dave Chappelle, Joey Diaz, Ari Jaffir, Tom Segura, Bert Kreischer, me. I mean, you see Chris D'Elia. You see Tony Hinchcliffe. Ian was there. Ian Edwards. Owen Smith. It's just over and over and over. It's like the lineup is insane.

30:23Guys you've never heard of that are murderers. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's a beautiful place. It's one of the main things that keeps me in L.A. Yeah, for sure. That and the podcast. You have a good routine. Yeah, man. I was ready to go. I was ready to get the hell out of California a long time ago. It's like they sucked me in. Well, what's cool about our relationship, too, is there comes this point about November where you fully switch gears to comedy. And I fully switch gears to product development coming out, really working on my shooting. And I go in this. I kind of go reclusive as a friend. There's been, I think, at Christmas time. Didn't I text you at Christmas? And I said, you know, sorry for being a bad friend. You weren't a bad friend. We're both doing the same thing. We're both wrapped up. Yeah, I'm like, you know, I just said, I know you're doing the same.

31:19But, like, that's from, I think, as soon as elk season ends. You go, you start your rewrite. And you wipe the slate clean and you start polishing. And when you're in that, when you're doing your comedy, do you have to stay in there to really, really do good at it? That was what was always hard with me when people ask me to do articles is there's certain times a year where I feel like I can write an article and it's really me. And a lot of times it's when I'm coaching. When I'm coaching and I'm seeing new people and I'm thinking about these things or I'm working on people's gear, I feel like I'm a good writer at that point. But when someone hits me in the middle of a time where I'm, like, in the middle of family vacations or if I'm in the middle of a mountain elk hunt, I just feel like I'm, like, I'm kind of forcing it. Is it the same for you?

32:19Do you get those windows where you're, like, this is my window where I hang out with comics. I just think about this stuff. This is what I'm thinking about when I'm working out. Well, I can never get out of shape. Comedy is, like, it's very critical to never really get out of shape. Like, out of shape is, like, this whole week I didn't do comedy. That's as long as I'll give it. You did to me. You said some funny shit. We were just having fun, though. I know. Yeah, but I can tell you're always thinking about it. We bring up subjects. I can't even think of them. But a subject would come up. And that night, the last night when Cam was there and me, you, and Cam sat there. And then the girls finally came towards the very end. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got on some subjects. I was just looking around, like, is anyone here? Like, hopefully, like, we have some privacy because we went down some rat holes, man.

33:11But it was funny. Well, that's the beautiful thing about comedy, you know? It's like everybody knows there's some subjects that you can't really bring up around a lot of people. And those are the ones I like the most, you know? Those are the ones that, like, if I can sell those to thousands of people, if I'm in a room and there's 7,000, 10,000 people in the audience, and I can sell this super fucking dangerous idea. Sometimes I say, I'm like, hear me out. They're like, Jesus Christ, what are you saying? But if you have a point and it's well thought out, it's like they really appreciate that you took that crazy-ass chance. And then they're laughing with you, like, I can't believe it. Like, I did a show last week. We were in Chicago, and I did this giant arena. And Daniel Cormier, who's never seen me do stand-up before, came.

34:17And afterwards, you know, we were working together doing commentary the next day. And he grabbed me, and he's like, I can't believe this shit you were getting away with. Well, me either, dude. And he's like, God damn, that was funny. But it's like, you've got to know that you have a point. You've got to really have that. But you can't just say it for shock value. Like, for me, especially at this stage of my career, I'm in this very unusual stratosphere. There's not that many people that are in this place. I would argue that you are in a stratosphere of your own, dude. You're at the top of this needle where you get away with shit that no one on this planet can get away with. I don't know about that. I think maybe other people would get away with it if they thought about the things that I was thinking about. No, I disagree. But it's this, you've got to have this.

35:09I think about things a lot before I say them. I mean, it's not like I'm just flippantly saying something that might hurt someone's feelings or piss somebody off. Like, I want to make sure I cover those bases. Yeah. You cover every base. You almost cover everyone's opinion within that arena. Yeah. And you've got to start off with the people that are opposing you. Yep. You've got to start off looking at it like from the people. You bait them in. And I've been there at times where I'm like, okay, he's wanting them to like him just for a minute because he's getting ready to shit on them. I just lured them into a trap of logic. Yesterday we were at the hotel and I'm walking around with my vegan cat shirt. And I told you a story. I was in Iowa and someone came up to me and they were legitimately, it was a lady, and she was legitimately triggered. And she just said, do you kill cats?

36:15Because I had this shirt that's one of Joe's shirts that has a cat with two X's on its eyes. And it just says hashtag. Yeah. If you remember when cartoon animals would be dead, they would have X's for eyeballs. Yep. So it was hashtag vegan cat, which is, you know, obviously one of the parts of Joe's Netflix special from last year. But I just looked at her and I said, no. I said, I love cats. And I said, I'm trying to raise awareness for people that are feeding their cats like a vegan and they're causing blindness in felines. And she goes, what? And I said, yeah. People quit feeding their cats meat and they become blind. And I said, I'm trying to raise awareness. And she's like, oh, my God. I had no idea. Thank you so much. I'm going to start to raise awareness, too. People are so crazy.

37:12Well, yesterday when I was, yesterday I went to get a drink at the bar and the girl that came over and served me, she stopped me yesterday. And she goes, do you hate cats? And I go, why? And she goes, what does that shirt mean? And she goes, I hope it's nice. And I said, yeah, it's totally nice. And she goes, great. I'm a vegan and I love cats. And I'm like, well, we're friends. But, yeah, that's one of the subjects right there. That's one of the subjects where you got away with it, dude. No one else could get away with it. That one was a lot of work. That was a lot of work, that one. I had to, like, circumnavigate that terrain many times to figure out the right way to get that bit across. Because that was a real thing that did happen. A lady really did say a bunch of mean stuff to me. And then I went to her account and it said hashtag vegan cat.

38:08And I really did look at my watch and go, shit, should I look at this? Like, I should go to bed right now. And I know this is true because most of the time when Joe texts me something, that's, it's within 30 minutes of when I wake up in the morning. Because with the two-hour difference, you're going to bed around 3.30. And I'm getting up around, like, 4, 4.30. And I do my best writing for whatever reason late at night. And I think part of it's because my wife and my kids are asleep. And I'm usually coming home from the comedy store. So I work. I do my sets. And then I come home. And then I write. That's a good time to do it. Yeah, because everyone's asleep and my brain's fired up. So usually I'm just hanging out with the dog and just writing. And then, like, write until I'm too sleepy. And then I go to sleep. But sometimes, like, I get these sparks. So I'm like, I'm a spark farmer.

39:05I'm out there just trying to farm some sparks or a forager for sparks. I'm looking for sparks. Yeah. And then I find a spark. And I blow on that spark. And I try to turn it into a flame. And then I have to keep that flame alive. And so then I have to keep working at it on stage and figuring out a way. And then some people will boo me or they'll get mad at me. And I go, that's not what I'm saying. Yeah. And then I have to figure out, okay, how do I stop the boo in its tracks? Well, I've got to get to their argument before they do. Yeah. So I have to figure out a way. It's such a good way to approach it, dude. But it's like if you're crafty. It's sneaky. Yeah. You have to be. It's obvious you're a black belt and a jiu-jitsu person. Because you're baiting people. I'm sneaking them in. Yeah. You're a baiting son of a bitch is what you are.

39:52But it's one of those things where it's like I've been doing it now for more than 30 years. It'll be 31 years this August. So it's crazy. I'm trying to remember. I remember you doing a show. I don't know if you did a show at the Riviera. But I was shooting in Vegas. And I know it was late 90s or early 2000s. And you were doing a show there. Yeah. Yeah. I used to do shows there. That was the only place I performed in Vegas. Was it? Was it at Riviera? Yeah. Yeah. I remember it then. Yeah. So that would have been. I'm sure it's 20 years ago. So you'd have been 10 years in. Yep. And I think I remember some of my friends going and they were shocked. Because they said they're like, he is not filtered in his comedy compared to how he announces the UFC. Because you like there's no subjects off limits. Well, the UFC is a different job. You know, it's very confusing for people. And I kind of sympathize with them.

40:59Because I have two completely unrelated jobs. Well, almost three. You have three. Because podcasting is sometimes funny. But many times not. Like sometimes I'm just talking to scientists. Yeah. And then sometimes I'm talking to scholars or educators. The diversity is what has people hooked. Well, to me, that's how I view the world. I don't need to be funny. Like I don't ever try to be funny when I'm doing the UFC. Yeah. My obligation when I'm doing the UFC is to give justice or to honor the hard work that these men and women have put into in their training camp. And to appreciate their effort. And to appreciate their art. The martial arts. You're super serious about martial arts. Yeah. When people try to make that funny, you don't like it. No. Most of the time I don't. I mean, unless something funny happens. Yeah. But it has to be organic. If my balls are hot. Yeah. Jerk moves. If something like that, yeah.

42:02That's just genuinely funny. I'll laugh at that. But for the most part, my job is to make it exciting for people that are listening. And to sort of explain what's happening in terms of particularly the ground. Like people kind of understand when someone's throwing a kick or a punch. And it's my job to point things out that I see like patterns. Sometimes I'll see like someone moving. I'm like this guy is moving at a much higher level. Sometimes that happens right before a guy gets knocked out. I'll say I see a big like this this past weekend. Ricardo Lamas is fighting Calvin Cater. And I said I see a big difference between the striking level of Calvin Cater and Ricardo Lamas. Calvin is just boom. He lands a knockout blow. Like right after I said that. Like sometimes crazy. Yeah. It happens like that. But you but that's important for for people at home.

42:55Like they want they the one the one of the reasons why some people like me as a commentator is because they know that I'm I genuinely enjoy this. This is not a job to me. Yeah. I don't think oh here I am working. I'm getting paid. I'm getting some money. I don't think that. But I think it's like I am. First of all, I love the sport. I and I genuinely appreciate what these guys are doing what these girls are doing. And I just want to give I want to honor what they're doing. I think anything you have interest in you 100 percent come across as authentic. And that's what that's what people say they like about me is because they say I feel like you are 100 percent authentic about your passion for archery. Yeah.

43:41And honestly, I feel like social media helps accelerate that because people start to not have only this filter that the the TV network allows people to see or that sometimes you or I don't have control on what that filter is. We might say like, hey, man, that's not me. Can you like I really like if you did it like this or like, no, you know, we've done some polls and this is really what we want, which is what which is why I left my network. Yes. Because I realized if I go on to a live feed, people 100 percent get exactly how I feel. Yeah. And I think the more that they experience that their radars of people's natural radars of who's legit and who's not. They're sensitive. Yeah. And I think it's the it's the best thing in the world for people like me or you or Cam or any of these people that we know within their fields where they're they're real. They're like real people within those fields.

44:48Or, you know, Andy's a great example, too. He's like he's almost breaking the mold of what a lot of Navy SEALs are doing. Is it fair to say that? Because so many so many like ride their past to, you know, to try to, you know, build something. Whereas Andy's almost you almost have to drag it out of them. You know, you almost have to say, like, no, dude, you've done some really cool shit. We need to talk about this. Yeah. And he's trying to say, well, there's more to me than that. You know, there's more to me than that. But I think once people really see that honesty come forward, that's what people are grasping for. They're like, I really want I really like that person that I'm seeing. That's what I want more of. Yeah. You're not produced. You know, when someone. Yeah, that's a good way to put on when you're doing a live stream or whether you're doing a podcast, you're not produced.

45:42And that's the same with me. I don't have anyone telling me to do. And I've been in that situation where I had someone telling me to do and telling me what to do or what to say. And it's just it's not as effective. Yeah. It's not as genuine. It doesn't come across that way. Yep. I saw today. It's it's weird how your phone. Your phone's a spy. I got today. I got ads pulled up in my Instagram about travel coolers. Whoa. Because we were talking about coolers. Yeah. Last night at dinner. Wow. How we were going to get our meat home. Isn't that crazy? Isn't it? It's so weird. It's crazy. Crazy. So it's listening to us? It's listening for sure. Yeah. Who's who can tell us what's happening? I want to know. Like what is your I need to get someone on that tells me what the hell your phone is listening to. Because that does happen to people all the time where all of a sudden their Google feed, their news feed has ads.

46:38If that happens, will you get really high before they come on just so you can really trip out? Yeah. Because you'll be like, whoa. Yeah. You'll be deep into that. I need to find out. I need to find out how they're doing it and what they're doing. Because that's weird. Like what if you were like planning a murder? You had your phone on you. Damn. And then all of a sudden the FBI knocks on your door. And you're like, no, no, no. I'm writing a book on murder. And I'm planning it out with a friend to try to pretend that we were planning a murder so I could see how people talk when they're planning a murder. So me and my friend who's an actor. Well, that's a cover up. But if you did do that, imagine if you did do that. Like if you were like Jack Carr, right? Our friend George Peterson. Who, he just gave me his two new books. Yep. I brought mine here to read it. But we were, we never had downtime. Never had downtime.

47:28We were having fun the whole time. But like you say, if Jack was writing a book or George was writing a book and he was trying to figure out how, Jack is his, we should say is his pseudonym that he uses for writing. Jack Carr is his, yeah, it's his pen name. His nom de pleur. But if he was trying to figure out how someone would talk when they were setting up a murder and so he got together with an actor or a detective or someone and said, what would you say? Like how would you talk about it? What would you do? What would be the steps? And the phone picked that up and all of a sudden the FBI is knocking on his door. He's like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. I'm not murdering anybody. I'm writing books. Like what are we doing here, folks? What if you got an ad for like latex gloves, bleach, lime, shovel, a 1987 18 minivan. Yeah. Gasoline. Gasoline. Lighters. You'd be like, hmm, okay. Yeah.

48:26I mean, I'm sure, honestly, I'm sure there's companies that would pay if they knew this guy is a buyer. Oh, yeah. He's sketchy. We don't care. We're just trying to make money. We don't know nothing. Yeah, we don't know nothing. I think that, you know, we're talking about, to get away from that, we're talking about when it comes to honesty. There's never really been shows where no one was telling anyone what to do. There's never been like, you think about how many downloads you get per episode. Like, there's, that's a, what you get for your archery podcast is like a successful cable show. Yeah. Which is really crazy. Yeah. Right? Think about how specific. I get more downloads in two days on my podcast than what Friday night full draw at 8 o'clock on the Sportsman's Channel got when I had that slot. I couldn't, I would only imagine that they can't compete. No. Because it's all watered down.

49:28It doesn't resonate with people the same way. It's, when people know that it's straight from your mouth and there's no one, they go, oh, this is who John Dudley really is. Like, one of the things that people tell me when they meet me, they go, oh, you're like how you are on the podcast. I'm like, yeah, that's me. Like, I don't have a boss. Yeah. But there's never been a thing like that. Yeah. Where you don't have a boss and yet every episode reaches millions and millions of people. Yeah. Like, if I could see the number of people, if I could, like, be on a stage and look out and see, like, I had Be Real from Cypress Hill. Yeah. On the podcast the other day. That was a good one. Amazing. I love that guy. I love him. I love Cypress Hill. But he, we showed video footage of when they were playing at Woodstock and that was a half a million people.

50:15Well, if I had a half a million people listening to a podcast, that podcast sucked. Like, something must have went wrong. So think about the numbers, like, for a podcast that's like a killer podcast. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Though, it's, it's, it's, it's unbelievable. Yeah. What were, I mean, if you think back of, like, a really good band that sold out a stadium, what that number would be. And they're like, this is a legitimate, successful band. Well, I feel like a really big, giant band could do, like, a football stadium. They could do, like, 50,000 people or 70,000 people, which is, you know, unheard of, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Those are giant, giant numbers. But that ain't shit for a podcast. That ain't shit. No. So think about one of your podcasts is way bigger than a football stadium, which is really nuts, man. Yeah. It's really nuts. It's, it's cool. There's never been anything like this. And it's free.

51:11It's free. There's never been anything like this. And there's never been anything where there's no filter. You'd have to be using those Sitka knee pads for some other purposes back in the day. Yeah. If, uh. You'd need more than the Sitka knee pads. Yeah. Yeah. You'd need more. You'd need some, you know, some thick ones. Yeah. These calloused hands wouldn't be favorable. It's, um, it's cool though, man. I mean, we, we came at the right time for this, you know, we were, I mean, for you to have left the Sportsman's Channel and enter into this new world. Isn't it awesome though? What I think is so cool is, um, and we, me, you and Cam talked about this, about the number of people that we get exposed to that we would have never got to hear their voice. People that write just a super cool book, having a, you know, that have dedicated their lives to an, to an awesome topic. Yeah.

52:10And you would have never like, unless JRE was out there for you to go down some wormhole at three o'clock in the morning and be like, you know what, this dude, like, I got to get this guy on. Yeah. He's, he's tripping me out with some of this information. And then you share it to millions and millions and millions and millions. Yeah. The, I mean, it makes, honestly, it makes mainstream. It makes it harder for them to lie. It definitely makes it harder for them to survive because they seem so corny. Yeah. Like you, you have a mainstream show that covers these subjects. There's like stupid music and dramatic, you know, reads and, and it's obviously written and they don't get to just talk. Like to, to discuss subjects, you need time to, to find out how someone really feels about a subject. You need time. Yeah. And, you know, and what, what these shows are trying to do is they're trying to create

53:07these gotcha moments where they're trying to catch people and misrepresent their position on things. And they're trying to, you know, they're trying to like create controversy because that's how they sold things in the past. Yeah. But people are getting tired of being bullshitted. They're getting tired of it. They want to know, like, like when I had Graham Hancock on the other day, it was this massively successful podcast. Millions and millions of people downloaded it. And it's about the origins of civilization on earth, which is such a crazy subject to think that so many people would be fascinated by it, but they are, but they were never represented before because it was never given to them in a way where you could just listen to the author who is this incredibly well-researched guy, incredibly articulate, has been passionate

53:54about the subject for decades and who was also often maligned by mainstream archaeologists and scholars. And now those mainstream archaeologists and scholars through new evidence and new discoveries have been forced to recognize that human beings have existed in these more advanced civilizations than ever, than anyone ever thought before for many, many, many years, thousands of years prior to when we had dated organized civilizations and cultures. And it wasn't that these subjects weren't interesting before. It's just that you didn't get a chance to listen to someone talk about it. Non-stop. Yes. Without an interruption. Or without a producer saying, you know what? That part wasn't interesting. Right. Now there's gaps to where you leave someone the ability to intervene and say, well, no, that's not accurate because he never mentioned this. Exactly. Well, actually he had, but they edited it out. Yeah.

54:53Exactly. You know, that'd be the person that'd be on like a PBS special and you're at the mercy of when they air it. Yeah. How they break it up into their 22 minutes. Yeah. And it doesn't give it the justice that, you know, obviously someone that's dedicated that much time where it deserved it. Yeah. You know, it's, um, it's a new world and you and I got super lucky that we kind of stumbled into this new world, you know, and, uh, I was listening to your podcast long before I met you and, uh, I watched your TV show and then I found out about your podcast and then I was listening to your podcast and I was saying, how crazy is this? This guy's talking about like X-10s and different flexchains and different configurations and helicals and all this shit. Like who the fuck is listening to this? How can I write that into 1200 words? You can't. You can't. Someone would be like, Hey, we need a feature article.

55:46Right. 1250. Cap it out. But to me, it really, really, um, resembled pool in a way because with pool, there's all this talk about low deflection shafts or 13 millimeter tips versus 12 millimeter, 12 and a half millimeter, uh, carbon fiber shafts, um, uh, maple butts versus, uh, ebony, which is a stiffer, heavier weight, 19 inch balance. Now carbon you told me. Yeah. Which is interesting. Which is interesting. Yeah. They're using that for shafts. Yeah. A lot of the top, top players are using carbon shafts and like the big name companies like, uh, Predator, they're making carbon shafts for, for cues. And a lot of people swear by them. They don't ding up like regular ones do, but it's also like, if I started talking to people the way, I mean, I've been playing pool for 20, 25 years. Yeah. About 25 years I've been playing pool. Like pretty, I mean, I never really stopped.

56:50I mean, maybe a little bit when I was really getting heavily into video games, I, I, I, I deviated a bit, but for 25 years I've been playing pool and experimenting with different tips and later tips versus Buffalo hide tips versus cow hide versus pig tips. Something, this is all these different types of just kinds of equipment. And you telling them, you saying this right now is probably like when you listen to one of my first podcasts, I think one of my first podcasts or the top few was, um, cause I kind of wanted to come out of the gate with, this is how deep I've gone. And so I got James Park on, which I love James. He's an awesome dude. He's from Australia, but this guy could have a doctorate in the aerodynamics of an arrow. That's probably one of the ones that tripped you out. Probably. But now you're talking pig tips on a pool cue. I'm thinking like, it's making sense where I'm like, well, duh.

57:48Yeah. Yeah. Different density leather tips would totally make sense, but I never even knew it existed. Yeah. Until right now. And now I'm thinking, oh shit. Yeah. Now I'm thinking, well, there's 50 different types of plastic. Like how many, are they playing with Delrin? Sure. Then putting the pig dick on the top of it. Are they using foreskin yet? Yeah. Like what do you do? Yeah. And then there's also wrapped cues versus wrapped lists, the way you hold it, the way you grip it. Some guys like to grip it with their wrists bent forward so there's less variation. Some guys like to let the wrists go real loose and let the, they cradle the cue in their hands. There's all these different techniques and strategies. And like, it's also like finger punchers, right? Some guys can punch that trigger and they can do it really accurately. It's very few people.

58:39That's the same thing with guys who have a death grip on the cue. Some guys have a death grip on the cue and they can play really well. No. You don't have a death grip. But, you know, it's like anything else. You would have to learn how to do it correctly. Yeah. And then you would have to practice. Yeah. You know, I practice playing pool by myself mostly. Most of the times when I play, I play by myself. I wish I could do what Iron Man does where he talks to Jarvis and he expands stuff. I want to do that on your brain when you're looking at angles on a, because when I'll break, if I break, because Joe and I have played together a couple different times, you look at the table and I can see, like, I know you're thinking, Joe. When the thinking Joe's there, like, all the cogs are turning and you're doing your Rain Man thing. I wish I knew how many different angles and shit you were looking at.

59:35Well, I'll tell you if you want. You know, I'll show it to you. Like, we were talking about it a little bit the other day. I was like, well, I have to go with the four. I have to hit it with right-hand English because I have to wind up on the left-hand side of the five because I want to drift down to the six that's so close to the second. I don't have the seven, rather. I don't have much room for error. Are you playing your whole layout? I play four balls ahead. Always? That's it? No. Sometimes I only play three balls ahead if it's, like, a fairly easy rack. But sometimes I like to play four balls ahead. Like, if there's a cluster, then I know I have to break it out. I can't fuck around. I have to make sure that I'm on the high side of this ball because when I collide, when I make the shot, I have to hit that second ball or I won't be able to get out. I'm trying to get out.

60:19I'm not trying to just – when I watch someone play – because everybody likes to say they know how to play pool, which is hilarious. People come to my podcast studio. They're like, oh, you play pool? Let's play some pool. Okay, let's play some pool. I knew you well enough to just say, I don't know shit about pool. When you're like, do you play pool? I'm like, nope. How do I hold this thing? But I always – I watch how they make a ball. If they just try to make a ball, I was like, oh, okay, you can't play pool. You might be able to pocket some balls, but I'm going to fuck you up in the long run. You might be able to make all the shots and run out, and I'll say congratulations. That was a disaster. You got out, but that was terrible. I did that twice. It can happen.

60:59Yeah, it's actually the perfect – this is the perfect time to talk about when people try to argue with me why – when they say, what I'm doing is work and it's always worked. And they're like, we know you teach that way. The way that I teach, I would say 80% of the people, it maximizes them to the best of their ability. Are there a fraction of people that are like the exemptions to the rule? Yeah. And you can probably go and win a tournament. You could probably, at some point in your career, if you go to enough major events, you'll win one. Doing it your way. But I'm certain that what I'm teaching will get the mass majority of people more production over a long run. They'll be more effective. Right? It's the right way to do it. Is it the same? Yes.

62:01It's like I beat you two games of pool, but to me that's like, you know, if you freaking throw three things out of the window, you know, one every hundred times is going to land where you think it might land. But it's just – it's chance. Well, we're playing on an 8x4, which is a smaller table, and it has buckets for holes. I like those buckets. All those things factor in. And, you know, the table that I have in my studio is – Sucks. It's brutal, man. That's a brutal table. That's like one of those metal targets that has the softball size hole. That's exactly what it is. He's shooting at 40 yards. It's an iron buck target every shot. I'm like, dude, I swear I would have made this shot at my old table at home. You're like, yeah, these pockets are a little smaller. I'm like, damn. They're four inches. They're an inch and a half shorter than a regulation pocket. Yeah. But that's how I practice.

62:55By the way, the last podcast I did with Joe on the JRE, there was a few people that said I might have gone too far on the drink. Just so everyone knows, Joe was beating my ass for about three hours on the pool table on these small-ass pockets. So I was just, like, drinking my sorrow away. And about the time he was all warmed up and had enough of me, he said, let's podcast. I'm like, I thought we were podcasting tomorrow. He's like, no, let's just go now. So, yeah. Yeah. That was a rough one. You didn't win a single game that time. That was rough. That fucking table's rough, man. That table's rough. It was. But that's my practice table. That's how I, like, that's like putting that Outdoorsman Atlas pack on. That's like me taking you right to the tack and be like, all right, bitch. Yeah. 120 yards. Hit that sheep. Yep. 37-degree angle. Good luck. Yeah, good luck. No range finder. Exactly.

63:53I hope you've learned some stuff. It's, you know, there's levels. There's levels to everything. And one of the things that I learned very early on when I became obsessed with martial arts was how important technique is. Yeah. To generate power. To generate real power. And to be, to do things correctly. Can you name one field where that's not important? I can't. The principles? No. I can't. Comedy. It's with everything. Like, Joey Diaz, when you see Joey on stage, he's so wild and crazy and his comedy is so out there. You think maybe there's no technique to it. But he's one of the best technicians. He knows exactly what he's doing. He does. But he's such an amazing technician because he has the best economy of words. Like, here's a Joey Diaz joke that I love. He goes, I like transvestites. They cook. They clean. You can beat on them every once in a while. The cops come. Who are they going to believe?

64:51Me or some dude with a wig and a black eye. Those jokes. Like, that's a great bit. And the jokes come at you before you know where he's going. The cops come. Who are they going to believe? Me or some dude with a wig and a black eye. That's a brilliant joke. But it's that economy of words. And that's like a skill. When you see a comic and they have too many words before they get to the punchline, either that's a new joke and they're trying to figure out how to say it, which I do, when I have new jokes, I'll oftentimes go back and listen to old recordings of a joke that I'm doing like three months later where I've got it down. I'll go back and listen to how I started doing it three months ago. And it's embarrassing. It's terrible because there's so many extra words in it. It's so meandering. It's just. Yeah. So there's technique to everything, man. Everything.

65:43But in martial arts, the consequences of having poor technique are the most devastating because you're going to get hit or you're going to get strangled or you're going to get your arms snapped. Like all the technique in martial arts is super, super critical. It's everything. Do you think there's people that could just focus on five basic principles of like jujitsu and just murk? And that's all they do, but they do it so well they can just wait on it perfectly. There's a guy named John Donaher who has done an amazing job in training these killers, just incredible athletes who've been able to beat people with far more experience than them because John, who was a philosophy major in college and just he's a brilliant man, like a true genius, has figured out a way to cut to the chase and figure out what is most important. What am I trying to achieve? And what are the barriers to trying to achieve this?

66:45And then he's figured out a way to apply that to his students. And it teaches students in this way that cuts the learning curve down radically. And because of that, he's developed these guys like Gary Tonin or Gordon Ryan or Nicky Ryan. He's like guys who have not been doing jujitsu, relatively haven't been doing jujitsu near as long as their competitors, but are far more effective. Yep. So there is... I've seen some of his stuff. Yeah. He's genius, man. He's genius. But it's that... It's the analysis. What it is, is a superior intellect that applies that superior intellect to something where people may not have been as focused. And there's also a problem with jujitsu where a lot of people just like to roll. They just like to spar because it's fun. You learn a couple techniques and then you try to get each other. Because it's fun. It's a fun thing to do. But the best way to do it is to drill.

67:44And the really best way to do it is to drill with intent and an understanding of each... Like a very detailed, comprehensive understanding of each position. And what's the danger of not having inside control? What's the danger of not having the underhook? See, that's what... For me, that's what I feel like some of the places where I've gone and done jujitsu, they're not explaining, so it's hard for me to absorb. Yeah. Because I think just based on my background, I'm wanting to know the basics and the whys and the drills. And I'm totally comfortable just being in the drills. Just being in the drills to where it's hard for me to want to learn something new because I know that I'm not doing what you told me before good enough for me to say, Okay, I feel like I'm doing that without having to consciously really try hard at it. Yeah.

68:40And I love that about sport where you're able to just drill and drill and drill until the subconscious absorbs it. And it's like, at that moment, I feel like I've made a step. Yeah. And now drop something else in. And I call it selective cycling. I cycle things in when I feel like I've absorbed something that I've already worked on. It's like that with students. You know, Andy said it before. He goes, A year in, you tell me something where you just now tell me it. And I look at you and I'm like, a year ago I was doing this, right? And you knew it. And I'm like, well, yeah, of course I knew it. But it wasn't relevant. Right. You're ready now to know. Right. Right now you're ready to know. And I almost feel like it's better. At least for some people. For me, I feel like it would be that way. Because I would always be thinking back to, well, why was I doing that? Why?

69:41Or deep down I know I'm not doing it good enough. Like I'm not doing it efficient enough. Whereas sometimes I've gone with people and they're like, we just roll because eventually you'll just start to realize why it's important. And honestly, the places where I've stopped going is those places. Because I'm like, I can't, I don't feel like I learned that way. Well, one of the things that we do at 10th Planet is Eddie breaks things down into paths and paths where people escape and then paths where people counter. Like sometimes like you'll have a path where you will pass someone's guard, move in the mount, go for the arm bar. They defend the arm bar. Then they wind up on top. Then they pass. And then they go into like an arm triangle or some other submission. So the person who was initially attacking winds up being the person who gets submitted. And you'll do this path and drill this path.

70:42And you basically, it's almost like a choreographed sequence of events. That will take place in sparring. Like where you'll catch yourself in an arm bar. You defend that arm bar. And then all of a sudden you find yourself inside control. And then you find yourself submitting someone with this very same sequence of events. And that just builds your understanding of the positions. And understanding of like what can take place from those positions. Yeah. Like there's certain arm bars that you can catch while someone's going for a twister or while someone's in the truck or someone's in these various positions. And until you're there, you don't really know it. So to do it in like a very clear path. So all the warm-ups that we do will be these pathways. Yeah. And I think it's important too. You know, there's people that say they listen to me and they just say, you know, I just don't get it.

71:37For whatever reason, I don't like what Dudley's talking about. I get it. Yeah. I think that's stubbornness. It's stubborn. It's an ego thing. I've gone to places, I think sometimes, but I've gone to places where for whatever reason I'm hearing the same thing, but it's easier to take it in. Even though it seems like it's the same information, it seems like there's some teachers that are really good at teaching. And there's some teachers that have been taught how to teach. And it comes across that way. And it's hard to soak it in. Well, it's also the personality of the people that are teaching you. Sometimes you don't want to learn from somebody. You don't like them. You don't like the way they're talking to them. Maybe they're arrogant. And maybe that arrogance comes off as, you know, like you want to prove them wrong instead of just listening. Yeah. You know? Yeah, I get it.

72:26Well, the last thing we should talk about is probably where we started this trip, grilling. Because you and I are both passionate about cooking food. Yeah. We eat what we kill, right? Yeah. And you were on a different grill path. Weren't you? I mean, I kept telling you, like, dude, I don't know a lot about this Traeger, but, man, it's, like, changed my life. Well, I was doing things very hot. Yep. And I had a Yoder that has a direct heat element. And the direct heat aspect of it was you'd have these grill grates that you'd put down. And you would turn up the flames very, very, very high. And I would cook on these grill grates. You'd put these grill marks on the meat. It was drying out the meat, though. And until Chad whiskey-bent barbecue. Yeah, Chad Ward. Chad Ward on the Instagram. Until he explained it to me, the idea of the reverse sear, cooking things low and slow and then searing them at the end.

73:36I really didn't get it. And then once I just started cooking like that, I'm like, oh, okay. I mean, I get mad when I go to a restaurant, a good restaurant, and they cook the steak bad. Isn't that a bummer? It's a bummer. It happens all the time. Dude, what did we cook night one when Sharon and I flew in? Did we cook cowboy steaks? Rib-eyes? Yeah, we cooked some rib-eyes. Bone-in rib-eyes? We got some rib-eyes, yeah. We ate those at the house. You've got the new Ironwood. Yes. It's not the highest-end, Traeger. It's the next one in line. Yeah, it's not that expensive. But for someone that's buying one in a store, dude. Well, I had an Ironwood before. You had a Timberline. Excuse me, a Timberline before. And they wanted to give me the Ironwood because it's the newest version with the D2. They hadn't had the— D2 motor. They didn't have the Timberline, the new Timberline out yet. Mm-hmm. But you know what, man?

74:32If you're on a budget, I mean, it's phenomenal. I have no complaints. I have the 650. I had the Timberline 1300 before. But this Ironwood 650 is amazing. It's so good. It's amazing. And I love the app. It's the best. One of the best things for me for Traeger is the app. And the fact that I can adjust the temperature of the grill on my phone. Yeah. And then also I could find recipes. Like, I cooked lobster tails the other day, and I got the recipe directly from my phone. And I went to the grocery store. I got the ingredients based on that. And I cooked it on the Traeger with my phone. What did you tell me you cooked at, I think you said you cooked something only at 225 just so you could use a super smoke. Well, I've been doing that a lot with roasts. Oh, really? Yeah. I've been doing that a lot. I really like that super smoke, man. It just, it does something to the, I love that smoky flavor that you get.

75:26I think it's one of the best things about pellet grills. And I think, I've had a lot of pellet grills. You know, the Traeger's the best. It's the best. It's the best at maintaining temperature. It gets to temperature better. It's the easiest to work. It does. So stable, too. I've had some complicated ones where they, it cooked good, but it's like, you had to, like, read the manual to figure out how to do things. And Traeger's just straightforward. But pellet grills, without a doubt, are my favorite way to cook food because you're just getting fire and wood. There's no nonsense. Yeah. There's no charcoal, lighter fluid. There's no briquettes. It's just wood and fire. It's a pellet that's repetitive. Yeah. And then what they figured out how to do, first of all, it's so efficient. The Traeger uses so little pellets. Like, I fill that hopper once. I go five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten cooks. Yeah.

76:23With just, I mean, it's a foot deep of pellets. Yeah. And it takes forever to run through that. We were eating those ribeyes that night, and we're like, dude. It's as good as you're ever going to get. You know what? Like, I haven't gone anywhere where I would say, I need to know how this guy's doing this. Yeah. Because it's better than what I'm making at home. No. They were definitely as good as anything I've ever got. Ever. Yeah. And it's so easy to use. And to do it at 225, and I love the fact that Traeger has that probe, and you can stick the probe in there. And you read it on your phone. With the app? Yeah. Harry has his first apartment right now. And I don't, and actually, it's the summer. He's got, he's in a research project, which is pretty cool.

77:09But I don't think he realized that the school wasn't cooking food, because he was in his apartment one night, and he sent a text to Sharon that said, campus is closed. We can't get food there, so we've got to do our own. And he goes, do you think Dad could cook for us some nights? And so she's like, you need to cook for him. So I told him, I said, you want me to do, I forgot what I said. We did a brisket. I said, I'll cook a brisket for your guys. So I started it at night. I literally woke up at 3 in the morning, grabbed my phone next to my bed, opened it up, told me that the brisket was at like 159. I got up, went outside, put the brisket in a big foil pan, wrapped it all in there, put in a little bit of juice, sealed it all up, bumped the temp up to 275, put it back in the grill, closed it, and just set the alarm for when the brisket hit 204. Like, set the alarm on my app.

78:14So the next morning at 9 a.m., bing, it goes off. The brisket's at 204. I took it out, set it in a Yeti, and just left it in there until the guys came home after their 10-mile run for that day and just sliced it, and it was ready to go. Amazing. It was perfect. Yeah, it's the perfect combination of technology. You know how much shit I ruined on a frickin' propane Weber? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, or a charcoal grill. Yeah, I had a Kamado. You know, one of those ceramic grills, which is great. It's great until you use a pellet grill. Yeah. And then, you know, my wife was like, get rid of this stupid thing. Like, you don't even use it. I'm like, but it looks cool. Well, it's like people that say you need to learn how to start a fire with, like, two sticks. No, you don't. Yeah, I can do it, but I also can buy a Bic lighter at the gas station when I'm filling up my car. It's 90 cents. Do I really need that?

79:10I mean, look, it's a good survival skill. Yeah. If you really do find yourself. And I know some guys like to just bring, like, a flint and some cotton swabs. I get it. Some people, hey, Schneider likes to shoot a traditional bow. I don't get that. More power to him. I don't get that. But then other people say, why are you shooting a bow when you can shoot a rifle? Right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we're in that category, damn it. Yeah. We're frickin' idiots, too. Yeah. Well, the argument for that is these damn deer, these axis deer. I met some hunters this morning, real nice guys, and one of the guys, he got his first big game animal today with a rifle. So, they were there for half an hour, and they shot a deer. Yep. We hunted for five days for me. I struck out five days in a row. Until finally I connected on the sixth day with that beautiful buck. But, well, dude, we're flashing on one bar of battery. I'm afraid of it.

80:15Oh, run out of battery? Do you have a charger? Well, do you have a thing to plug in? I have a plug in, but do we have a plug in? Yeah. Is there a plug in close by? Yeah, there's got to be. There's got to be some outlet here. Well, you can figure that part out. Should we just bail on this? I don't see any. We're quitters. Yeah. Let's just bail. Damn it. I don't think there's any power here. I don't see it. Well, dude, this was awesome. Hey, my brother, listen, it's always a good time hanging with you. I love hunting with you. Thanks for teaching me about archery. Hey, the next time we see each other, do you know who we're going to be introducing to archery? To bow hunting? Who? Jocko. Oh, that's right. That's right. Jocko's first bow hunt is going to be archery elk in Utah. Oh, dude. We have an awesome camp. This is going to be legit. That's going to be legit. Oh, we'll be doing some podcasts from there, folks. Oh, yeah.

81:03Don't you worry. I wonder if he'll still act as tough and cool as he will. I think he's going to keep it together. I think he'll probably be pretty stoic and just listen. Guys. He's a good learner. People with that position, they know how to learn. He's a black belt in jiu-jitsu, too. You don't get to be a black belt unless you're a good learner. Yeah. You might have to beat it into him, but. I don't think so. I don't think so. I think he's just going to listen. Would it be fun if he, like, missed his first one and the elk just schooled his ass where he was like, where he thought he could just tough it out? I would like to see him get a fucking 10 ring. That's what I want to see. Yeah. I want to see an elk drop the way my elk dropped it to hone where he just stepped four steps and just tipped over. That's what we all do this for. You say it. I say it. Cam says it. Yep. I don't know. It was a super fun.

81:55I'm so thankful that that day that you couldn't go, that I asked Cam to go with me, because that was the first time that we've hunted together. And I would say, I mean, we were both at UA for 12 years together, never had hunted together. And it was, it was pretty cool. Once you get in a situation, especially a hunting situation where it's, it's life or death. Yeah. I mean, for what you're pursuing, the movements that you make and the choices you make, they really define, they do define you. And whether people out there like me or don't like me or like Cam or don't like Cam, all I can say is when we were in the moments that we were in, that's the ultimate litmus test for me. Like a hunting situation for me is a litmus test for a person. For you, I think it's someone that like actually goes into a real fight, right? It's a lot of things. It's comedy. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

83:00I've gotten to become friends with someone, then I watch them on stage, I'm like, oh, I can't be friends with you anymore. Really? Yes. I was like, oh my God, you're terrible. But then are there times where you're like, this guy I don't really know. But then when you see him, you're like, you know what? Like 100%, you got my respect right now. Oh, 100%, yeah. And that's where it was at. You know, I can, I'm truly, I'm truly respectful and I'm honest when I say that. Yeah. Like, you know, I wouldn't have had Cam on my podcast if I wouldn't have said that there was, it was an eye-opening experience for me. I had a very, very good time with him. And I think we both kind of found a different appreciation for each other. He's an awesome guy. I love him to death. So it's so cool for me to see you guys become friends. Yeah. It really is. It's amazing.

83:56I think comedy and bowhunting have one thing in common is that it's so difficult to get to that elite level. Then once you meet someone, it's like, how many of your, how many are there? I mean, how many like legit elite bowhunters are there? Are there even 500 on earth? Oh, God, it would be way smaller. Same with comedy. Way smaller. Same with comedy. I think it's probably the same thing. I mean, I know I would offend people where people would be like, what? I'm not on that list. But I think it's really small. And I'm talking on like not just a good level. I'm talking on a level where if someone said, listen, dude, you have like 10 cards to play. And these cards, every card has to hit. Who are the people on this card? Yeah. It's small, man. It's small. It's small. Is that fair to say? Yes. It's 100% fair. Yeah. I think there's many things in life. And there's a lot of different personalities within those.

85:05Like people, some people have different personalities. Some people get to the same place with a different path. And sometimes it's abrasive. Sometimes they're the fan favorite. But in the end, like the people that are within that realm, it's like the Big Brother house. There's people that people are rooting for. And there's people that people, you know, are like, I don't know how that guy got there. It doesn't matter. He's there. Yeah. Right? It's that old expression, game recognizes game. Yeah. Yeah. Just leave it at that. My brother. Love you. Cheers, brother. All right, everybody. Bye, everybody. See ya.