Billy Corben

00:01five four three two hello billy we're live yo joe what's going on buddy how you doing i watched a new documentary this morning in the gym loved it it was great it's crazy i love your use of little kids i don't want to give away too much of it but it's about the steroid scandal involving baseball and alex rodriguez but what was the choice to use little kids to play a-rod and all the other key principles involved in the scandal like to play use little actors what kids oh come on fella you're just you're just hi dude i was pretty sober that's the gym yeah um so you you now know the stories you've seen the doc and if people remember the biogenesis steroid scandal if not the movie i think recaps it pretty pretty well the thing that struck me is that like all these guys acted like children they really did yeah and and to boot so you know we've done some some sports

01:05talks in the past we did you know some of the espn 3430s like the u and um when you do a sports talk i mean i i don't want to say it's it's easy because it's you know making documentaries is a challenge but sports docs are pretty like paint by numbers it's like you interview some players you interview some coaches some journalists they mention a bunch of games and you show a bunch of game footage you know like it's a pretty straightforward process uh with this one it's not about baseball it's baseball adjacent i guess but like it's about that went down in nightclubs in shady clinics with fake doctors hotel rooms bars locker rooms so you got a bunch of guy talking heads in your documentary but then you got nothing to cut to you got no b-roll so i'm like we're gonna need to shoot recrease you know recreations here right which is which is to me i i don't know it's like when you're doing

01:58non-fiction filmmaking it's fake when you when you film recreation so it's like i'm like how do we do this in a creative way that that's consistent with the tone of the movie which was always called screwball meaning it was always like a farce you know like a carl hyacint or elmore leonard cohen brothers-esque sort of florida farce and so we just wanted to keep in that in that mode so i'm watching the characters so we got tony bosch uh who was the fake doctor and porter fischer who was the whistleblower who stole the medical records and and started this whole thing they were then stolen from him and then sold to not the highest bidder but any bitter and every bitter they were sold to and they're talking and i'm noticing that they had like a very similar storytelling style like for example guy will be like so i walk into his office and i say i want my money and he says i don't have

02:54your money and i said well you better get my money and he said what are you gonna do about it and i said i'm gonna break your net and i'm like oh they they're so vivid and in the moment and and and talking dialogue so we could drunk history this right we could we could edit together the doc and then have the actors lip-syncing the actual interview dialogue and all the actors will be eight years old and i don't know like i've always wanted to do it like way back uh spike jones 1997 biggie video sky's the limit biggie had just been murdered he was faced with this challenge of producing a posthumous video and so spike jones was like okay we'll just do a straight up classic bad boy records circa 97 music video cars versace wardrobe girls mansion hot tub but they'll all be eight years old you got baby biggie baby puffy baby baby busta rhymes babies yeah it's brilliant and so i was like

03:57what a great that was always kicking around since since 97 and then i saw this off-broadway musical about ten tennis years ago called a very merry honor let me try that one more time a very merry unauthorized children's scientology pageant don't ask me to say it again i can't say it again um so it's just it's this wild musical like very bowie-esque score written by a couple of yalies like it's like it's a it's a christmas pageant performed by elementary school kids but instead of the story of jesus it's the story of l ron hubbard all with like in like a school play with like you know paper mache like sets and and and construction paper costumes and props and i wanted to i got together with one of the composers i said listen i'd like to get the rights to your musical and make a scientology documentary using the kids and the musical as a framing device because in those days no one was

04:56making now everybody makes scientology documentaries in those days nobody was doing it particularly because like the church is so litigious and so they had kind of left this musical alone so i thought like that might be a cool buffer like maybe if i make a documentary that's a little light you know and it's like this children's musical but we intercut it with real real documentary investigation interviews and um that maybe we'll kind of get away with it nobody wanted to make that movie dude maybe nobody i mean doors were closing before i even knocked out like got to them um and i kind of filed again filed that idea away in the back of my head and then um a couple years ago there was that funny viral video like it was like a scarface school play i don't know if it was like a bunch of little kids doing scarfaces like an elementary school play and i was like this is such a it's such

05:46a great device and the problem is you need to find something that it works for like like cocaine cow babies would not have been appropriate right for example a bunch of eight-year-old kids running around um it's not bugsy malone you know so um it's just like it just like kind of the stars align we just like i was like this is this is going to work here i think it works it works great it's such a crazy story and the fact well i don't want to give too much of it away because i really want people to watch it because i mean i've i've talked about cocaine cowboys probably a hundred times in this podcast it's one of my all-time favorite podcasts excuse me all-time favorite documentaries but this is this is a story that almost writes itself it's so bonkers that and the fact that it all could have been avoided if one guy just paid another guy or just didn't try to rip him off

06:31for like four grand yeah like nothing doesn't make any sense it's crazy and the guy what a bizarro personality he was who would just tan every day and hang out at this doctor's office in the waiting room telling everybody how great it was like the whole thing is so strange like that's everybody remembers it is like the a-rod or a roid scandal you know and and the truth of the matter is that alex rodriguez was collateral damage yes in this whole thing yeah it was not about him don't tell alex that but it's not about him you know it's it it was really the highest the career of the highest paid baseball player of all time effectively ended over a 4 000 debt between this cocaine addicted fake doctor and his fake tan addicted steroid patient and it's like that's why i said it's like a florida story straight up it's just like this classic only in miami absurd

07:29farce and that's what you specialize in you specialize in florida i go to your twitter feed all the time for current florida it's just it's yeah it's distilled it's just like it's pure it's 100 percent florida yeah it's just it's and that's what this story is to me because like miami is just well i say the great thing about miami is it's so close to the united states but like it's it's also like it's america's casablanca like just people kind of flee to miami from like all over the country and all over the world usually leaving some kind of criminality in their wake and you know come here and kind of there and reinvent themselves you know like it's just and then you have all of these criminals there who then kind of baking in the sun you know in this kind of multicultural paella you know that we have and then they just like and then they start putting their their

08:23minds together and brainstorming and they hatch just the most inane schemes and scams like that's our primary export from miami is just schemes and scams well it's just so amazing that it's still a cocaine culture too after all these years it still has a giant cocaine engine pumping out all this chaos we don't have any indigenous industry i mean there's no factory where everybody goes to work and then 30 years later gets a watch there's no there's no business there it's carl heisen says all we produce in florida is oranges and machine guns we don't we don't make anything that we sell the dream we sell the sunshine you know it's lies that came true yeah you know and so and even more frightening is the miami of today is the america of tomorrow so it's like there's a lot of lessons to be gleaned from down there but it's basically at this point a money a real estate hustle

09:12and a money laundering capital so it's really no different than it ever was everybody likes to tell me how it's changed it's grown i'm like just because you've built a bunch of doesn't mean we've grown right and miami is just like miami is one of the youngest cities in the country in in your parlance it would be about one person old or one and a half people ago like one and a half people ago you know like it's just we're one of the youngest cities um barely a hundred just over a hundred you know correct me if i'm wrong because i've said this before but isn't there more banks per capita in miami than anywhere else well certainly there certainly was um before the you know the the uh the great recession when a lot of them started shutting down but most of them have rebounded uh one of the clever things some of the real estate developers did was they opened their own bank

09:59literally their own bank they had a bank where the entire board of the bank were all real estate developers and over 90 percent of the loans the bank made was insider loans just to the board and then of course they went belly up in the great recession and what happened we bailed them out so it was all their own so bailed out real estate salesmen real estate who loaned themselves money that is wound up being backed ultimately by us by the taxpayers yeah i mean that's the old remember i mean you hear that line all the time now that like you know um people used to rob the bank from the outside in now it's yeah now it's from the inside out but no none could be truer than that story and that's a miami story and when the great recession happened the fdic had to open an office in florida because we had more bank closures than any other state uh in the union because we were like you could go

10:52down there i mean you could buy a mortgage for your dog at a drive-through in miami in the in like the the late 90s early aughts and i remember interviewing a guy um we were doing it working on a project called ponzi state about the state of florida as like a a case study in the great recession years ago we never finished it unfortunately but we're interviewing this guy and he says um you know we were this is pretty like big short like this before anybody sort of knew a lot about this and he said we were down here in miami setting fires and wall street was trying to read our smoke signals that's why i say like the miami of today is the america of tomorrow it is such every time i go there i always go i forgot how crazy this place is you really should have to have a passport it's but i love it i really do love it it's a crazy place to do stand-up you know i i i did this joke because i was

11:46doing a netflix special and i was doing it a couple months after i did this gig in miami and so i was using those yonder bags you know what those are where people have to put their cell phone into this magnetic bag you keep the phone but you hold the phone in the if you want to use it you just have to step outside they open up the bag and they give you your phone in every other city it made for a better show because people just sat down and watched the show in miami it made for literally 40 of the crowd at any given time was getting up and going to the back and using their phone and coming back in they were just constantly moving around you presume it was to use their phone they might have been powdering their noses they might have been but it was you know it was because i had done gigs before that where they didn't have the yonder bags and this wasn't the problem but in miami just

12:31everybody needed to use their phones they just kept getting up and coming back and it was just chaos well it's also a selfish town like it's it's a basically a town of i mean really and and so like i always say that i mean it reflects in everything that we do in the way that we behave certainly in the way that we drive like believe it or not like people are so much more chill and calm here in traffic in la i swear to god and ellie was famous for like road rage like yeah ellie like created invented road rage but like miami it's such a crazy angry weird place because it's like when push comes to shove we're in miami chill the out like it's all good it's a beautiful place like and it's a shared experience the traffic sucks for all of us just chill out and use your turn signal for crying out loud and just but that's why i say that's why they call it miami it's not our amy or your emmy it's

13:22my emmy and stay out of my army it's just i don't know you seem to love it you seem to thrive yeah i can't really function anywhere doesn't make any else it doesn't make any sense it's and it's so frustrating too i was you know i'm a native floridian and a lifelong miami and i for a while i was i was pretty determined um to like leave behind a better florida than the one i was good fail big fail man that culture is like so inexorably connected to cocaine one of my best friends steve graham was an ophthalmologist he did his residency in miami so he did his residency in emergency rooms in miami and he was there in the 80s during like the height basically during when cocaine cowboys takes place and he saw everything just he mean he had all these pictures of bullet holes and skull fragments and people with uh light bulbs stuffed up their asses and just he said every day was just chaos

14:28everywhere else the light bulb goes off over your head in miami we shove it right up our asses he said they had to pull a light bulb out of a guy's ass in one of those uh ones that look like a christmas tree those curly ones this guy stuck a light bulb off his ass and it broke in his ass at least he was concerned about the environment that's like one of those environmentally like sound like good like there was no environmentally sound like times yeah they were just thicker glass like i think it felt like he could get it in his ass better like that was the error to cut your teeth if you were a cop or a lawyer or a journalist or an er doctor i remember talking to an er doctor once he tells me a story 1980 shortly after the mariel boatlift started which i think everybody's kind of pop culture frame of reference for the marielle boatlifted scarface tony montana was a mariolito that's the

15:15beginning of the movie when you know castro is ranting and raving that he's flushing the toilets of cuba onto the united states specifically to miami and um so he was working at the uh the uh trauma center jackson memorial our emergency room uh in miami and he said he got a marielle refugee these guys would stand on the beach they would um it looked like havana in south beach you know like there's that like coral sea wall and it's just like it had a really havana vibe so they would go they would chill mostly at these flop houses south of fifth street in miami beach where like the cops would literally just they would be leaving after a stabbing at one of these places and they'd be three blocks away to get a call to go back because now there was a shooting or something else they would be going there like a all around the clock and so and they would just get in gun fights

16:04like literally would just be like they someone would cheat at dominoes and they would just pull out a gun and one guy would shoot the other guy and so he has a mario refugee who comes in to the emergency room with a gunshot wound and he knew spanish he was bilingual he said the guy said you're really lucky because if this bullet had hit you know a few centimeters or whatever this way you would have died immediately you would have bled out right there on the scene died instantly and guy splits a few days later another mariel refugee comes in with a gunshot wound in exactly the same spot where he had told the other guy that if he got hit there he would have died could never prove it never was able to trace it back but he was pretty well convinced that it was a revenge shooting for the other shooting and the guy knew exactly where to shoot him and kill him because the doctor had told him

16:54where to do that but that was like every day in miami the lady who cuts my hair for christ's sake she said billy i was so naive in those days you know you you she's i cut people's hair you know they come over kiss her goodbye and put a tip in her in her pocket you know and she'd go home turn her pockets inside out have our little crumbled bills and everything and one day she finds a little baggie of white powder that's something that one of her clients had slipped into her pocket as a tip and she said to her girlfriend she was what what the hell is this and her friend said oh that's worth more than gold that's the best tip you got you got all day that little baggie that was just like the culture and it's and it's i mean it's not mentioned that anywhere else like imagine that in like nebraska someone tipping you in cocaine people would be like what what the what what the are you doing

17:43listen it's just like like i said it's like america's casablanca it's just no place like it it's such a strange place yeah everybody everything is for sale still nothing you know and like i said we are about a person old that's how far back miami goes i was watching a video about um the culture of renting super cars to people so they can pretend that it's their car huge in miami yeah yeah we got all these brickell brick at least a thousand airs you know driving their rented lambos yeah you know and blowing the engines out on south beach because they don't know how to drive them so they're just getting towed down the street it's just listen it's a fake until you make it kind of town and there's nothing really to make there you can't really other than a real estate hustle money laundering drugs politics being a crop politician there's really no other way

18:34to make it it's not a real industry no not at all there's a lot of professional fighters come out of uh miami about that whole area coconut grove and a lot of aggression a lot of poverty it's a it's a third world economy down there the disparity between the haves and the have-nots the income gap is widest and getting wider in miami-dade county than just about any city in the country or any any metropolitan area in the country wow so and that's why i said the miami of today is the america of tomorrow if you want to know what challenges we'll face as a nation or calamities will befall us in the years to come you need only look at at miami td allman called it the canary in the coal mine the bellwether and so you know when when the election was playing out the cycle in 2016 i was like you know all my friends are just like this can this trump thing can't happen i was like hang on i was like

19:26florida elected and in fact re-elected rick scott to be governor he is the biggest medicare fraudster in the history of the united states everybody knows it everybody's aware of it it's very well publicized we've we reelected him okay we've we elected him twice as the top executive in our state like what makes you think that the united states of america wouldn't do that and i know it's fair to say like you know if you're gonna be the governor of the state you should know a little something about the largest industry in the state like if you're gonna be the governor of michigan you should have some familiarity with the automobile industry and manufacturing and in florida if you're going to be the governor arguably you should know something about our biggest industry which is medicare fraud basically i mean you could argue that he's the most qualified man for the job oh yeah we got like

20:16medicare fraud is has is one of the largest industries has been for decades i mean we have billions and billions of dollars in fraud that just comes out so they run it so you'll go into like little havana or hialeah for example in uh a municipality in in miami-dade and there'll be a little abuelita sitting behind a desk half asleep and she'll be surrounded in this tiny little one-room office by little mailboxes you know like p.o boxes and a mailman comes in every day and just puts checks in the boxes and they're like in some cases they've stolen um uh social security numbers and and cr you know uh stolen identities basically in some cases they're just old people who aren't aware that their mail is being forwarded to this location and they've just got they i think miami for a while we had more medicare uh payments for hiv and aids medication than every other part of the country combined

21:20and it's all just old people so it's like you would have to assume that a hundred percent of our elderly population suffered from hiv had hiv where hiv positive i mean it's impossible you had female patients getting penis pumps that were paid for but i don't even know that medicare covered that i got to look into that but uh but i know that was a thing thanks obama but did you watch the oxycontin express did you see it no but that's all about how they would have the pain management centers and they were connected to the pharmacies you'd go to the doctor hey my back hurts you'd go well you need this go right next door and you just go right all they would prescribe was oxies and sometimes it wasn't even next door sometimes it was like go to that window yeah right next door they say show the doctor your x-ray yeah you have to get your x-ray done somewhere else because they

22:05weren't doing it so you'd hand the doctor your x-ray he'd look at it and go oh it was upside down he wouldn't even hear me like oh yeah oh you know what you need go to that window over there and fill this prescription and we had more pill mills they called them in broward county which is the county just north of miami-dade then we had mcdonald's locations and there was literally like the appalachian trail they were coming down they were stocking up on oxy and we were fueling a death epidemic like in in kentucky they were pulling over more cars with florida plates than in-state plates up there because floridians were like well we can't let them have all the action we'll drive up and we'll export the and at the peak of the pill mill epidemic the oxy epidemic in florida seven people a day were dying men women and children and we subsist from hustle to hustle you

22:59wonder why didn't the government crack down on that why didn't they regulate it well first our governor and we did we deal with this in screwball is the biggest medicare fraudster in the history of the country so he wasn't exactly shall we say vigilant or interested in cracking down on medical related how does he get away with it magic maga magic i guess i mean he listen he he got he played the fifth amendment like 75 times in a videotaped deposition that was used in a campaign ad against him and florida was like we're good we're good with that uh and he just listen white rich men kind of walk between the raindrops in this country you know it's just uh well sort of they got craft for getting a hand job that was florida too so stupid it's crazy stupid it's cool we were talking about like how does he not have a guy who can get him jerked off like there's

23:51probably a lot of gals out there that would like to make some money you don't you don't have to go to a massage parlor the biggest bummer of it is is now my massage parlor's closed down that's the problem where do i go now that's the problem where do broke guys yeah well the fact that they were filming you too like so the whole thing is so strange and if there was human trafficking going on there were cops chilling there for like six months and some ongoing investigations like can you save these poor victims but human trafficking has become like this key word it's like this new sort of like fear-mongering kind of a term to get everybody all up in arms and now they're kind of backtracking on that they're like well maybe it wasn't exactly okay maybe it was just more of a prostitution why he was a horrible person because he was contributing to these people that

24:37were essentially being sold for sex slavery turns out that might have been a bit overblown no pun intended overblown but of course that's kind of how they have to sell it right otherwise people are like why are you wasting all this money on hand jobs no one can why because solving real crime is hard oh and dangerous and dangerous okay so you can go and pick somebody up for marijuana or getting a hand job whatever and you can look like you're you're being proactive yeah but solving a murder is that's hard man that's hard work hard dangerous and you know if you go to a weird little asian massage place and guys are coming out smiling like it's uh you can start there yeah you know we'll talk about low-hanging fruit real no offense to craft i mean you know it's probably this older fellow there was a weird law in hawaii where they were letting cops actually have sex with prostitutes

25:31like to prove that they were prostitutes i think nearly half the states in the union have a law that allow police officers to have sex with people in custody why yeah really i can't make how do you make this up yeah and they're saying well it was consensual because i was like consensual they're in handcuffs what do you mean it's consensual like what that's human trafficking if you ask me i mean well yeah and obviously they're going to try to make deals hey i'll suck your dick if you get me out of here of course how is that how is that consensual how's that legal it's crazy it's crazy it's the ultimate whole i mean you're talking about people holding power over people that's ultimate coerce consent absolutely yeah i mean that is that is more than an employer doing that to an employee i mean you're literally dangling their freedom talk about an abuse of power seriously i just

26:20look i i have all daughters i'm i'm not i don't want anybody's daughter to be a prostitute but i'm also 100 in favor of people being able to do whatever the they want and if someone's in a weird stage in their life where they'd rather jerk guys off than work at denny's like who's anybody to stop them from doing that the only problem is the social stigma that's attached to it the actual act itself is it's beneficial though the person gets something out of it you know i mean there's it's some people have a really hard time getting someone to have sex with them you know it's i don't see it that it's just a crazy thing that we regulate something that i mean george carlin had a great bit about it that's the only thing where it's illegal to make someone pay for it but it's fine if it's free like it literally doesn't make sense there's nothing wrong with sex but there's something wrong with

27:12people paying for it and it's fine if you pay for it and then videotape it for distribution because then sure porn yeah i don't really first of all it's a contract between two consenting adults if we if we're talking about small government deregulation let's allow two consenting adults to engage in a contractual relationship yes offer acceptance consideration as with anything else the stigma as you mentioned a lot of that is part and parcel of the prohibition the illegality of it is what brings the seediness it's what brings the danger right because it's forced underground uh you introduce all of these elements that don't have to be there they could take place in clean environments they could take place instead of in the black market and underground it could take place in a where you can protect all the participants yes involved and it it but it's been true of

28:07liquor it's been true of marijuana it's been true of uh prostitution which they call for a reason the oldest profession yeah um the second we introduce the prohibition it creates a level of danger and a threat to society that wouldn't exist if you're like well wait what if you just let me smoke this yeah what if you just let me drink this because i'm an adult making a responsible decision for myself what if you just let me engage in sexual activity with this person who is perfectly willing to do it in exchange for some remuneration yeah what the why should anybody give a it's so puritanical it's so archaic it's such a dumb proven bad idea it's i mean it's been proven for decade upon decade you go all the way back to the alcohol prohibition to what's going on right now with the cartels i mean what how much would it fix if they made all drugs legal how much would it fix

29:05i mean we'd have a real problem in the beginning with access where people there would be so much more access you'd probably you know we you would lose people people would die in high profile overdose cases and people would try to make a deal out of it you don't think that if cocaine was legal everywhere that no meth people can get the drugs right but it's not that easy for a person like if you don't know anybody who's a criminal like say if you want to buy meth now i don't know where to buy meth i know a few walmarts in florida they make it in the bathroom i bet you do but that again that is florida it's it's a it's a different animal but like right now in america i mean i maybe could drum up some meth in a few days if i started asking but uh you know i would not have any idea who's an informant and who's going to rap me out but i think the stats show in states

29:56where marijuana has become legal you don't see significant spikes in usage apparently there's there's there's some significant spikes in uses but the problem is it correlates to a significant spike in population of the state like a lot of people moved colorado just because of marijuana they moved to become a part of the business and because they just wanted to be free you know and then california we've had medical wheat forever and now we have legal legal weed and it's i don't think it's changed much here but you do have there's there's some there's some issues there's there's definitely i mean i don't think it's beneficial in any way to sugarcoat the fact that having legal drugs makes people have more access to those drugs means means maybe there's going to be a few people whatever the number is who do those drugs who wouldn't have had access to them without it i thought i agree

30:45but i think it's de minimis i think it's like i think and the number of people who's gonna turn around and go like you know what i'm gonna try this legal now myth yeah my dentist doesn't recommend it but i feel like i went who the gonna do that you say that but how many people are on adderall and the only difference is the doctor is prescribing it that's really good that's why the president bumps it yeah that's what he's just saying do you think he does he's always sniffing and he always well here's the i don't think he's on cocaine so no and i always describe to people who don't who don't know what this is like people on cocaine start one sentence and then finish another right that's what it's like talking to some someone on cocaine or the president they just but i don't think he's on bl and but he's always you always hear him with the step i think he's like bumping addy i

31:31don't know i don't think he's bumping it but i think he's definitely well he might be why am i thinking he's not i mean he's he's a wild man but he's definitely got accusations from his past about use of amphetamines there was uh there was a journalist that actually detailed the very dwayne reed pharmacy where he used to get this prescription diet medication there air quotes diet medication which is speed right and look the guy has an exorbitant amount of energy i mean it's quite impressive for a man in his seventies who eats yeah his diet doesn't exercise and he's always ready to go i mean when he was campaigning he didn't seem to ever get tired he would go and do these campaign events and he would always be talking and he'd be full of enthusiasm we're going to make america great again we're going to build that wall higher we're going to tell those chinese listen like he was

32:23i mean it's an incredible amount of energy god bless him he says 70 some odd years it's amazing that you don't have to drug test him it's amazing you could trace people's players right baseball players exactly that's what i'm gonna say they're the guys we need to and what i mean what is adderall if not a performance-enhancing drug 100 talk to journalists how many journalists will be totally honest about it they are hooked on adderall and they are very productive with it very productive i tried it once it's wild somebody gave me some i didn't try it i just sat there and looked at it and i go i don't need that in my life i've been scared of coke i've never done coke i've never done adderall i don't with speed because i can't shut the up already yeah i'm like that is not for me i need something that calms me down it makes me feel weird i feel like i'd be that guy who like does it

33:10the first time and my heart explodes out of my chest you'd be like scraping you off the roof with a shovel you know if i did all right right because you're so high energy yeah i was like jesus i'm worried that i would love it that's what i'm concerned i'm worried i would love it and i'd be like okay from here on out it's all about me you know it's which marijuana does the opposite to me marijuana is like we could all be cool together you know i finally tried pot yeah i finally finally what happened i never i never i never tried it before but you know i was i was actually um years ago i was in colorado 4 20 backstage at a snoop concert oh geez you have to try it i didn't have to because i was second hand stone it's like it's like when when i go to church with coco i mean you just get you're just hot boxed you know like right literally people's church with coco for people

34:01understand what we're saying church of what's happening now podcast with joey diaz that's right i abbreviated right i didn't mean that i actually went to like a santeria church and sacrificed a chicken although we have done that in miami when he's out of miami all bets are off right when joey's down but like like i'm in the middle of a story on his podcast and i forgot that just at the end of the story i literally like i told and i like ended it and then only the next day did i go i never told him the end of that story i forgot it but so someone says uh snoop snoop wants to meet you he's in his dressing room backstage at this concert so go yeah i'm gonna go meet snoop are you kidding so i opened the door to this backstage area dude i can't see my hand in front of you i can't see windshield wipers in my glass like i can't see and i'm i'm wandering and i got maybe halfway down the hall

34:58and i was like i can't i can't i can't i turned around and i pulled it out the door i was like you know just panting on my hands and knees i was like i can't do it so i couldn't go back to the next year or like two years later i'm back in colorado because everyone was making fun of me so like you went to colorado and didn't smoke they're like that's like going to italy and not eating pasta you know i was like okay next time next time so i go out and i try it and i was like all i kept saying was i wish i was drunk i wish i was drunk i wish i was just i don't know it was like a bad i just it was so anti-social i felt so weird i felt so sort of introverted and i was unfortunately in like they had this pot-smoking church in denver whoa yeah it's like you go and you can just smoke pot and it's literally in this old church they got beautiful paintings on

35:47the wall it's crazy it's trippy and so i was there and i tried it and i was like how much did you smoke not a lot two heads two three yeah that's too much is that too much yeah for like if i was you your friend and i was why i am your friend but if i was right next to you at the time i'd say a little baby hit billy just a little baby head don't get crazy just like this that's all i want just and then let's just relax don't get cray don't take it when it comes back around again it's too much it's too god damn strong today it's not what it used to be i was in uh very recently in austin texas and texas still has regular weed it's very good weed but it's regular weed like you can smoke it and you're like i'm here everything's fine california no longer these right here these little backwoods that jesus that is not regular weed that's got a glass tip and that will put

36:36you on the moon brian callan had one hit of it last week he couldn't drive himself home hours later hours later he was still here hanging out yeah he's still here now i'm awake i'm awake yeah he had to get uh my friend brennan to come and get him yeah she couldn't drive it's awesome it's strong but there's also different so next time i did it i did something someone said you know what maybe you should try something else yeah sativa versus indeed yeah i tried it second time laughed my ass i was with funny friends okay and i had a blast so i don't know what i did or shouldn't have done or should do or shouldn't do but it was i had a lot of fun yeah sativa is more um you're thinking more it's a little bit you have a little bit more energy indica crushes you you just like oh my god i gotta go somewhere and lie down i can't handle this it's it's but it's different for

37:31different people as well but i'll tell you that chick-fil-a tastes damn good way better right hey tastes great i gotta tell you hate tastes great i mean it's more ignorance than hate but i see what you're saying yeah thank you i had to explain to my kids why it's closed on sunday they were driving by how come no one's there i go because it's the baby jesus's day okay if you really want to celebrate the baby jesus though all right let's hear me out i watch a lot of tbn because i'm a lunatic and i like i always wondered like if the jews were on television all the time we were on television going like send us money what would they say about us but for some reason i don't know why jesus needs a lot of money because they're always on tv telling you to send your money to jesus right so i'm thinking if you really want to do something for jesus chick-fil-a open on sunday

38:21and donate all of your revenue to jesus to churches yeah all the think of the money just the after church crowd alone everybody would flock no pun intended right to the chick-fil-a and stock up and they'd have all their they could even have people volunteer to work those days and donate all your money to jesus because he apparently needs i don't know what he needs with it but he needs a lot of money well i don't know if the chick-fil-a guys the people who own it are of the same ilk as the trinity broadcast network folks because those tbn folks i don't think you're being mean by saying they're shysters you know straight up yeah they're just they're just stealing money from people i think that chick-fil-a guy is like a legitimately religious person who really truly believes that he's saving the world from gay folk marrying each other yeah it's not logical but

39:17they make a goddamn good chicken sandwich quite quite tasty man i'm telling you again i think it's more ignorance than hate but it doesn't rhyme just does ignorance taste great yeah it doesn't it doesn't rhyme but but like i don't know and they had this lunatic on he's on all the time they're paid half hour shows but this peter popoff guy oh yeah with the miracle spring water the prosperity yeah the prosperity preachers talk about a bill of goods man you know that th that guy creflo dollar his name is craft like i'm guessing that's not his christian name but it's his but it's his evangelical name i think he made that name up right i would hope so that was that was the dude you tweeted about him years ago that was the dude who was out in the world getting donations because he needed to update or upgrade his g4 yeah to a g6 and i was like g6 christ this this guy

40:13it was going to say i need donut because i need to spread the gospel yeah and so you need to give me money so that because my g4 just ain't cutting it anymore i need to upgrade i wish he had gotten a 737 max eight but that's just me it's just so amazing that that hustle still works the the the prosperity ones are so gross because they go after people that are so poor and destitute that they can't pay their bills and they tell them if you just send me money god will pay you back tenfold and i know what you're saying you don't have any money but you do you do you take that money you send it to jesus and jesus will bring prosperity in your life and then they have all these folks that are giving testimonials about how i was down on my luck i didn't have money for rent i didn't have money for food but i knew that jesus needed this money so i sent jesus the money and jesus paid me back

41:02tenfold and now my life is filled with joy and prosperity am i being hateful when i say that that is what religion preys on no people searching for answers yeah but i think for some people there's like i mean this is older wiser me right when i was younger i would agree with you 100 but i think at this point i think there's some benefit to like having community and having this environment where everybody goes to be humbled and everybody goes to agree that they're going to be good people that follow the ethics of jesus and he put a little money in the dish and you know they have to keep the operation running and there's a lot i think there's a lot of churches that do a lot of good but i think for every one or two that do a lot of good there's these that are just stealing money and driving rolls royce just hypocrites giant castles you know like that joel whatever his

42:01name is what's that guy's name osteen yeah that's houston that he owns a huge arena he they they do the show near and and he caught a rash of when he didn't let all the hurricane victims stay in his place yeah he was holed up in his 10 million dollar mansion at the time it was only 10 million well it's not his only property you know i mean he has several houses it's just so distorted the the whole idea of it all so distorted but i think i think there's a lot of community churches that do a lot of good where they they provide people with comfort you know you know it doesn't necessarily have to make any sense it doesn't make any sense but it provides them with comfort i appreciate like i respect people of faith i think it must feel wonderful i don't know how it feels but i it must be wonderful to believe in something like that so devoutly without any evidence without any

42:54indication or proof whatsoever that what you so firmly believe in is true but it's the hypocrisy of it that i just can't abide by right like these prosperity guys yeah like the prosperity guys like people who used to have a or claim to have some kind of holier-than-thou moral code that now think like the pimp president's cool it's like i get it but like but your whole thing was like that bill clinton was the biggest scumbag in the world right and he needed to be impeached and castrated and but like let's have some consistency it's hypocrisy that i can't abide by let's have some consistency is all well particularly with trump because trump was uh this is not a knock on him but he was a lifelong democrat i mean he only really became a republican when he thought about running for president yeah and he was an independent for a minute then he was a democrat again then he was a republican

43:45it's a pure hustle i mean the glass has been cleaned and squeegeed and you could see right through it that's why it works on the evangelicals that's what i'm saying that's their whole he's like the pimp joel osteen like he's like that's what it is well he found his hustle yeah and i don't want to be mean about this but i think it's accurate that there's there's a level of intellect that just subscribes to that kind of stuff that like i had a friend she was in the mormon church for a long time and she left the church but she was really honest about it she said i have a problem that i'm susceptible to like she suscept because she grew up a fundamentalist and so she's susceptible to you know to like yoga type people like gurus crystals and the lights feel the light she's susceptible to all that and she would recognize her susceptibility but she was being really

44:41honest about it you know that she's like i have a real problem i grew up believing something that doesn't make any sense and i believed it wholeheartedly and she goes and that sort of formulated a big part of how i ascertain what is accurate in the world so she's left with these like child-like skills of of being able to discern what's and what's a hustle she's like a little kid i have a great amount of respect for people who grow up in a cult and who can make their way out of it i mean can you imagine when you're a child yeah you're most impressionable and and you're steeped in that that's all you know like you don't know that there is an alternate perspective and and you're able to grow up and say oh wait there's a whole big world out there maybe i'm not being told the truth that's incredibly powerful it's really hard i think to break with the only thinking that

45:38you've ever known in your life i think it's amazing it's one of the probably one of the hardest things that a grown adult has to do is to recognize that the paradigm this this this framework they've been living their life under is utter horseshit it's like i mean the mormon one is so crazy too because it's like the the results are great the people are so nice yeah like they're the nicest cult members of all time but then you go back and look at the actual framework of the religion itself wait a minute wait a minute he was 14 like hold on joseph smith was 14 in 1820 when he found golden tablets that contained the lost work of jesus and only he could read him because he had a magic rock but like that's judaism and catholicism it's all they're all crazy mythological horseshit but they know who the guy was like i mean he's so recent it's too well that's the thing is it you

46:31know it's like scientology it's like yes well we know it's a lie scientology is even crazy well a science fiction writer yeah literally was a failed a failed science fiction terrible writer terrible failed science fiction writer that never made a second draft in his life and one day said the if you want to make real money start a religion yeah that is his greatest quote yeah and he did it and then god bless him can't knock his hustle people want to buy into that what's amazing 2019 it's still rocking like in some way i mean it is even after all those documentaries even after leah remini show all these things just they go out in the world they tell everybody it's horse and then a brand new scientology center opens in miami i'm like seriously really we know are you brand new we already know some people don't know the people who don't know are never gonna know that's what it is it's like

47:22you're going if if you know if if you want to put in a money like some people have a hundred dollars some people have five dollars and this is like intellectually some people have a lot of room to work with some people don't they just their brain doesn't work as good just like some people have poor genetics when it comes to their ability to run fast some people have really shitty brain development genetics let me ask you this because obviously you would have sympathy for someone who has taken advantage of or swindled or the victim of a con con person how much sympathy do you have for the gleefully ignorant or the willfully ignorant meaning like the information is there it's available before i give scientology my money i could just i don't know google it right how how much sympathy do you have for like the willfully ignorant people who who sort of it's it's like the dude from

48:17my airplane they bought their tickets they knew what they were getting into i say let them crash you know like well i'm a big fan of willie d from the ghetto boys and he has a quote that i always like to use you gotta let a hoe be a hoe and i think in that sense like you got to let dummies get fleeced it's just part of and part of it is there for us to see part of it is there for you to go what they gave away all their money oh like there's something to that it benefits us like i'm not a fan of these videos where kids try to skateboard off the side of a building and they slip and fall and land on their head and everybody's like oh but but those videos serve a purpose and that purpose is not everybody gets to do the handstand on the side of the building and survive right some people fall and they land on their head and they're never the same again yeah

49:08and then they're left with like a third grader's iq for the rest of their life that's real man so it's george carlin's bit about you know the kid who swallows the most marbles doesn't get to grow up and have kids of his own that's how it's supposed to work yeah unfortunately it sucks if it's your kid but it's all of us are experiencing this life together and there's some folks that are just they're going to do a shitty job of it and part of me thinks that because there is no utopia right there is no enlightened people there's no one civilization that's got it all nailed and everybody gets along together and everyone's totally fine with every single choice everybody makes because everybody's ever been to waffle house that's that's a utopia it's close depending on how drunk you are because of that i think we operate under this uh this weird system where you've got to see the

50:01failures in order to recognize that failure is possible i think there's a there's actual community benefit to people up and there's some community benefit to people getting fleeced listen i i always say that first of all i don't believe anybody that says any artist or anybody out out in the world creating something and putting it out there for people to react to it i don't believe anyone who says they don't read their reviews or their own reviews i read all of the reviews and i read the bad ones twice because that's where you learn the most they could be right they could be wrong but right i feel like you just it's where you up that like you you learn the most from it and and i think i feel like as a white man in america all the time i have to keep myself in check the way you were describing earlier about how like you know what if you just come to realize

50:52that maybe the world isn't exactly the way you perceive it and that maybe there's a lot of other people who have very different experiences from the ones that you have and so maybe the reality of the world is is different for those people sure and you can be a more enlightened person by being more empathetic and trying to understand those perspectives trying to walk you know a mile in their shoes and i just feel like uh i've learned so much more from the mistakes that i've made in the failures that i've had certainly than any of the successes i i in my home i have no i have movie posters but they're like art they're other people's movies you know i have none of my own movie posters at home that's that's that's at the office that's not what home is for you know except i had one for a while i had one poster of one of my movies that i hung in the bathroom over the toilet

51:36because it was my least favorite and i just wanted to be reminded every like that that was the time i took a you know like for the whole world to see and i hung it over it stayed there for a number of years it's not there anymore but like i just i just i wanted to remind myself of it you know you're a smart guy you take motivation and failures i mean that's what failures are really good for when you fail at something there's there's a benefit to that and that you you go god that sucked i don't ever want to suck again like let me figure out a way to not suck like i always say that with about comics like when we bomb that is it's a terrible feeling but it's the best opportunity for growth because you realize like hey i obviously didn't do a good job i need to figure out what the i did wrong and batten down the hatches and get this ship right because i can't experience that again i

52:25became a comedy fan in no small part because i have been to shows where i've seen some of the biggest funniest guys bomb and i'm like jesus short of being a soldier or a cop or like a stuntman this is one of the most dangerous self-destructive jobs like it's it requires such bravery and such strength of soul and thickness of skin that like i went vegas just like 2000 um and saw carlin big beautiful room sat like front row it was weird because like the stage was like a wall like i was sitting against like the stage and i had to look up and like carl and shu would like pass like right in front of my eyeball just above my my eye line and he was doing material for one of his last specials and it was the one i think might in the second glass he had that whole bit about like he doesn't believe in god but like he believes in like that he can see and he's afraid of like

53:26the saunder joe pesci like you know that whole bit and he was in this big old god-fearing crowd there in in las vegas and they they were not about this they were not about it not one eye odor not one little bit and he's trucking back and forth doing it crickets crickets packed house sold out i'm the only one laughing in the room just me in this giant room and i'm laughing at my ass off and i'm all by myself and i'm at some point i turned i i stopped laughing long enough or took a breath to take a drink right and i look down and then i look back up at the stage and carlin is right there he's like hunched over with his head like dangling off the stage like practice and i look up and i'm practically nose to nose with carlin and he goes thank you sir and just just walks away and keeps stalking the set the stage and i was like oh my god and i saw i was at the improv um uh

54:29in miami when they when they had the one at the remember the the hard rock yeah the hard rock uh i guess they're redoing it or whatever that place is death it's just i was like i was like man you know they say what do they say hard rock's the floor though that's the hollywood one though yeah hollywood seminole oh yeah that one's good the bad one was miami the miami coconut grove no it was cool but then now it's got like they've bulldozed the whole place they're supposed to be remodeling and rebuilding it the seminal hard rock like it's like i always say you know what's the saying that like um uh in a casino the house always wins i'm like these indian casinos are the only place where like the house never wins because it doesn't matter how much money you lose there we still like rape their women and stole their country so like the least you could do is like drop

55:18a little coin at the indian casino and that's what i would do i could play they that was the only place that is the only place to have blackjack uh in south florida so you can go there and play blackjack but they bulldoze the improv and i was there one night gilbert gottfried was there and i was literally the only person laughing but like in pain like i was in pain laughing and it was just brutal and like and i've been in these rooms where like these guys and and i was just like these are the funniest people that i know and it's happened time and time again and i've been to shows where they killed and i've been to shows where they died and i was like this is amazing this is so amazing it's like the if the fact that anybody gets back on stage after that after a night like that is just it's remarkable to me i have nothing i have such respect for that i always say that bombing is

56:08like sucking a thousand dicks in front of your mother but not really because somewhere out there there's a guy who loves sucking a dick in front of his mother and if you put another 999 he wouldn't be that sad but no one wants a bomb in front of their mother no one wants a bomb period it's just terrible it's a ruthless experience it's um it's it just rips you down and and shreds all your self-worth makes you feel terrible but again some of my best growth periods in my career have come after eating it's just you spike yeah you realize like you go to gotta go to work you can't be complacent and that's one of the things that fuels and motivates me to this day i'm terrified of bombing so i'll just keep it's anything i can use to make me work harder i use the six years since i did my shittiest work have been like for me artistically creatively uh the most productive and like i i feel finally

57:13um after 20 years of making documentaries that i might be doing like my best work like but it took that long and it took basically almost six years from totally bombing you know for me to feel like i i hit rock bottom and then have spiked you know better than better than before you've done some documentaries with some dangerous people in them you know obviously griselda blanco is probably one of the most dangerous people on earth while she was alive um and in this there you also touch on that i mean there's you're a lot of these people are sketchy folks and you're exposing how stupid their activity were does does that ever creep you out ever get nervous like because you're making these documentaries mocking these people and you know rightly so but it's uh not cocaine cowboys weren't really mocking it's more exposing but this one is like openly mocking this

58:07one's really good man it's really funny and it comes out march 29th yes sir friday yeah and uh uh april 5th on vod yeah and yeah well this one's this one's tough because this is like a fresh wound come on people netflix march 20 no vod i'm sorry theater's march 29th okay and vod april 5th so like itunes amazon pay-per-view on your cable box what uh kind of release you're going to get in the theaters um starting off with 12 cities on friday the 29th and then i mean isn't it oh yeah for sure at the lemley um music hall oh three and um and then uh where else i think san francisco um boston miami orlando um if there's like 12 cities and then i guess depending on how well it does uh it's being put out by greenwich entertainment who just won the oscar for free solo for best documentary um so they know what they're doing and and uh like i said hopefully people will go see it and listen

59:03i hope it's a comedy i think it's a comment it's a comment we tried to make it i was laughing my ass off i was doing chin ups and laughing i was like what the man that guy the the tanner what's his name again porter for sure porter that guy like what i just imagine if you got one of those guys in your life and he's just stuck in your life like how do i get this guy out of my life and the fact that he borrowed money from this guy and then did loan money well loan money to this guy yeah porter loaned it to tony yeah oh that's totally okay somebody borrowed money for this quarter and then didn't pay him and that's what caused this whole thing it is alex rodriguez has got to be pulling his hair out going what in the and alex was paying everybody so was mlb i mean everyone was running amok in miami like just hiring private investigators running people down alex rodriguez actually this

59:53isn't in the documentary but um when these convicted felons stole the stolen documents from porter fisher who had stolen the documents from tony bosch they set him up in this whole tanning salon heist where they're like hey why don't you go in and try this new spray tan color it's it's trumpy and orange go go try it on and while he's in the spray tan machine they open his car and steal these documents which have these client lists of all these famous baseball players including the highest paid baseball player in the world a-rod and so they steal it and then they turn around and sell these stolen documents to major league baseball for cash so mlb has this ragtag band of misfits these this internal fbi like their own internal investigations division that they created after the balco uh steroid scandal they're running amok they are seducing nurses former nurses from tony

60:55bosh's clinics they are literally in diners with convicted felons handing over bags of cash from some mlb slush fund i don't imagine they were going to 1099 the guy and i don't know where this cash came from 125 grand and what they did was is that the felon who was doing it had a buddy at a neighboring table at this diner with his cell phone recording video recording this transaction and then he turned around and went to arad's camp and said i'll sell you a video of me selling known stolen documents everybody knew these documents were stolen so mlb's buying these stolen records stolen evidence in the state of florida department of health investigation for cash from a felon at some point he gets like freaked out and nervous and he deletes this video off the hard drive he winds up selling a-rod a blank hard drive for six figures okay and a-rod sends this hard drive erod's people

61:57send this hard drive around the world to like data recovery services to try to get this video back so unfortunately the felon didn't get his second six-figure payment because that was that was the first six figures were against the recovery of the debt but he got like two three hundred grand to sell a rod a blank hard drive and a rod's dropping money on private investigators who were like having car chases through south miami um it was just totally crazy and and it's like i always say like you come down to the swamp and roll around you're going to get some mud on you so when mlb came down to to miami when the guy jerome hill the the former baltimore cop turned uh florida department of health investigator he he says unequivocally that major league baseball's investigators broke the law in the state of florida and should have been prosecuted for it and held accountable for it and never

62:50and never were i mean it's good to be a multi-billion dollar monopoly how old was a-rod when the scandal broke a-rod was definitely towards the end of his career and so that's the interesting thing about cause let's be real i don't give a about steroids in baseball and this era of steroids in baseball was not the same as the other you know the barry bonds you know kind of era of steroids in baseball um these were not guys you know with necks the size of my waist or anything they were micro doses they were micro dosing and it was hgh and testosterone and a lot of these guys i mean listen their their their livelihoods are contingent upon their physical performance yes and so you gotta play like what is it 162 games in 180 days it's the most physically grueling schedule of any of the uh of the professional sports and guys have always been looking for an edge in the

63:401950s the yankees were going out the copacabana all night apparently okay there's an adderall issue with baseball as well absolutely a disproportionate number of baseball players compared to the general population on adderall that's a that's what i said it's a performance of course enhancing drug but you had guys like mickey mantle and whitey ford and billy martin partying all night at the copacabana they have to make a 1pm game maybe even a double header they're doing greenies they're doing amphetamines it's always been a part of of of baseballs finding that edge now you got guys who are just looking to maybe recover a little faster you know from from injuries or fatigue you're looking for guys who um are are looking to maintain peak performance for a longer period than their bodies might have otherwise allowed um is it that big of a deal i don't know it's not and it's

64:29it's it's a weird deal it's a weird thing that we have an issue with like you look if they did the same sort of stringent testing with nfl players you'd find out that everyone's on steroids that's just a fact you don't get people that big and they do catch them every now and then but i feel like it's like one of those things where like you know how the drug cartels they'll let some drug drug shipments get busted so that the other ones will get through i almost feel like that's what they do with with nfl players that get caught like oh look we we're testing we caught somebody dude that's what that's what this was with a-rod you know bud selig is the steroid commissioner full stop that's the bottom line his tenure was marked by the famous you know derby or yeah well uh mark water and sammy sosa absolutely so he knowingly i believe um exploited and profited from that era of

65:23baseball that really saved them after the 94 players strike i mean basically just look at the size of those guys where they started yeah yeah i mean so many of them they literally morphed them in the documentary we morph them from like a before and after because they're they turn into baseball monsters snacking balls to guantanamo for christ you know what's interesting to me is that some people recovered from that stuff and some people did not jose canseco never recovered he never recovered in the public eye does and that's why he's so pissed like that's why the it's up when you when you're the pioneer in something people really and dude they had a street named after him in in miami yeah and they quietly took that down in the middle of the night after decades of naming that street from he was just totally humiliated and i think it's also because he ratted out a lot of guys but so did a

66:12rod a-rod leaked names to try to distract or defuse but he didn't put out a book yeah but like it's the public nature of canseco's book it's like i don't know i'm just guessing but his book was like his book turned out to be like the jose canseco's book about steroids turned out to be like the steel dossier of baseball it's like everybody thinks it's pissed and thinks a bunch of and then over time it's slowly proven true right and at the end there's a p tape yes i think that therefore yeah well that's that is a good way of looking at it too right because like think about the outrage when clinton got his dick sucked by monica lewinsky and compare it to donald trump having at least two women that we know about where he paid off that he and people like ask the evangelicals where they stand up yeah and all that yeah the man it was before the man found christ

67:01that's what a lot of them said did you find christ i was watching a documentary where there was a guy who was uh some some christian guy who was saying this all of these accusations or before he was born because he was born in the eyes of christ when he accepted christ into his life when well i guess when he's running for president so that's when he paid off stormy yeah but like the night before the yeah but after that then he became jesus after so after he like paid off stormy like when when he played the day before the election i feel bad for her too because i feel like she thought like this is going to go all in on this and then she lost the court case against him so she owes his legal fees 300 grand this is crazy like where the is she gonna get that and now she's trying to do stand-up yeah i mean she's gonna s that's a lot a lot of hand jobs um she's you know about robert craft she's

67:54trying to do stand-up i think no she's not yes she is in houston texas they were calling her the queen of clap back that is queen of the clap no no clap back oh okay you know like clap back like she's yeah but he'll say something bad about her she's gonna come after you even worse that clap back expression like someone kim kardashian claps back at the critics like like that is the dumbest i cannot wait for that one to dry up and go away not kim kardashian that expression like twitter insult comic kind of schtick but it's just clap back they're calling it when someone has something to say about someone saying something about them that's clapping back right but how does that translate to stormy daniels doing stand-up how can you do standup out of clapbacks well they were calling her the queen of back she's gonna do stand up again i mean who knows maybe she's hilarious

68:42she's gonna take it seriously i mean you never know i mean as a comic i i leave the door open for all possibilities but i mean it just means to me that she got this situation where she thought she probably was told by everybody look hey you're going to win this he's going to pay you off you're going to everyone's going to know that you told the truth and people are going to pay for your interviews and man but this is america this is a broke supply and demand economy like if she can make more money stand up comedy is hard work if she can make more money just spending on a poll yeah but like why because she's got probably got bad hips she's like in her 50s or something isn't she i don't know i think she's she's an older lady but she's not young man you know she's not young how is she she's only 40. oh jesus okay i'm sorry stormy don't clap back at me i thought she was older ah

69:43hard life ideas meal as you say in my hard life bro but it's just um it's just but that thing is that we everyone's so used to it now it's like not that big a deal it's like even if a new accusation came out people would be like ah like like remember the new york times report about trump was talking about shady business dealings yeah and they thought i mean they they spent years career ender yeah totally didn't do a damn thing in and out just off the shoulder it's problematic and i'll tell you why um it's what i call the the new american values it's to me what what i think screwball is about in the end meaning like yeah it's fun and it's funny and it's a farce it's a romp uh you laugh but i think that there's a conversation to be had about what i call the new american values which are lie cheat and steal and get rich or get ahead and these are values that we're teaching

70:41our children now not honesty integrity tell the truth do unto others as you'd have done to unto you the golden rule um we're now showing them be a bully um lie cheat and steal and you could be the biggest uh highest paid baseball player of all time lie cheat and steal and you could be the commissioner of major league baseball lie cheat and steal and you two kids can be president of the united states and i think this toxicity of the new american values is going to do damage for generations and we're not going to be able to fully comprehend or understand or analyze the damage it's done for some for some time and it was like after clinton clinton redefined what sex meant and we were adults you could laugh at it but the truth is is that he said oral sex wasn't sex right okay um and we saw the spike in sexually transmitted diseases among teenagers and young people mostly

71:46through oral sex because they said oh well the president said really that absolutely yeah and that talk about a health yeah it was it was a legitimate public health crisis you saw following the clinton lewinsky scandal you saw an increase in sexually transmitted diseases through oral sex amongst younger people because the president it's hard for us because we see the president right now as sort of a comic you know he's sort of a it's it's you know he's a reality show president we know it's but what do you tell kids this is the president of the united states is that what it was or was it because there was so much discussion about him getting his dick sucked that more people wanted to suck dicks and get their dick sucked i think without question obviously the uh the size and scale of the coverage yeah unquestionable we got people well horny but people people

72:38for a while people thought when i say people i'm talking about younger people um developing minds impressionable youths were under the impression that you could not get a sexually transmitted disease through something that wasn't sex and the president reset those values just like this president i feel is re calibrating our values and and i think that that's that's what's most i mean other than the potential of nuclear war i think i think that is what is most dangerous and what could could cause the most long-term damage from this is these new american values lie cheat and steal i was literally at a q and a with one of the kids that the little kid brian blanco who plays tony bosch in the movie the lab coat and the the hair feels great he's amazing he's hilarious and so they're all great and he said i was at a q a and i was like you know what lessons do we learn

73:28from this movie and he this is where i got this from he interrupted he's 10 years old and he's like oh i know i know i'm like brian you have to raise your hand it's your q a too dude you're you're on the panel and he's like lie cheat and steal and and to win or something like that and i was like oh this kid's 10 years old you know and i'm like this is what he thinks the values of america are well it's interesting because in the documentary one of the big uh things the news clippings is george bush discussing steroids in baseball in 2004 was it 2000 state of the union yeah and he was talking about how it sends the wrong message that cheating in baseball sends the wrong message to the youth of america and there's i thought that was silly at the time i was like ah what message but the reality is those things do have a ripple effect and if you tell people that the way to become this

74:24superstar athlete is not just through hard work and dedication but also through taking things that are illegal because they're going to pump you up and give you an edge on your competitors we're a shortcut society yeah so we look for those those tricks of the trade you know always and we and we don't believe necessarily when people do achieve something naturally or via hard work we go what did what did he do what did she do what did she really do the problem is some of those shortcuts work like adderall like steroids they work man you know the ufc has had a giant problem with them for a long time and it was exacerbated by this time period in the early 2000s where they allowed people i guess it wasn't quite the early 2000s it was actually later in the 2000s where they allowed people to take exogenous testosterone under therapeutic use exemptions they would call it trt

75:17and so this famous like the vitor belfort era when he was on trt just starts smashing people because he looked so ridiculous he was so jacked and that during that time period they they fell into this there was a sort of uh a really a piss-poor way of justifying it the justification was these people have low testosterone low testosterone is a disease if we give them testosterone they can perform better but the way around that was these guys were actually on steroids the steroids crash their testosterone they'd go and get a test look my testosterone's low like yup you need testosterone and then they would take steroids you know essentially not steroids but testosterone which has you know similar effects and um and then eventually the ufc said look we up we're going to go 100 degrees the other 180 degrees the other way and hire usada and we're going to we're

76:12going to crawl up everyone's ass with a microscope we're going to find out what the is up and man bodies changed careers crumbled i mean we saw so many people get busted in the beginning so many people got caught and still are getting a tj dillashaw just got caught who's a bantamweight champion just just relinquished his belt for some i don't know what he got caught for i don't know what the circumstances were and some people have been caught for um accidental contamination because they're like there's a lot of different supplements you could buy even creatine like standard stuff that's totally legal to take but they they're contaminated because you're buying them from cheap sources they make them in china and what have you that was the problem with this biogenesis thing is first of all tony bosch who wore a lab coat had a stethoscope hilarious called himself dr

76:56t yeah had said dr tony bosch doctor in belize which i think i am too i have to check my email he went to the same medical school as dr pepper and dr dre well i'm a uh ordained minister just so you know all right i've actually married people that's legal yeah i'm a legally ordained minister i got it online tony bosch despite having attended what one of our interview subjects refers to as the belize school of the medical and performing arts okay to get his doctorate um he was never a licensed physician in the united states and he was yet he had legitimate uh prescription pads and dea numbers from doctors that he could then prescribe these drugs and in fact wanted to go one step further like we were talking about with the pill mills and actually sell them in-house to his clients and was buying them in the black market from some dude in a suburb of miami making the in his garage so that's

77:49problematic well you know here's one that's problematic that's kind of weird doctors of chiropractic like you know they don't go to medical school and they some of them check this is check if this is true can chiropractors write prescriptions i don't think that they can i think some of them really i think in some places they can write prescriptions is that like in tennessee or in like where is that a thing says no says they can't i guess some of them could be doctors though look highly don't need a jessamine you're right you're feeling it no i don't ever how about that um i went to a chiropractor i've been to them yeah i thought they were real until i started reading about how it actually got full and a lot of people out there that are chiropractors say i do a lot of good for people i'm sure you do there's a lot of good therapies that chiropractors also offer so do churches

78:41too good for people the the actual evidence that manipulating people especially your neck that it does any good at all there's none and it actually has killed people people have died from having their neck manipulated well i i felt a lot lighter after the chiropractor by about four hundred dollars yeah i mean they do a lot of cold laser and massage and stuff that does work but if you look at the you know it was invented by a guy who's a magnetic healer who was murdered by his own son his own son murdered him ran over him with a car and then took over the business sounds like a sondheim musical it does crazy it's and it was all in like the 1800s and we've had it for so long that people most people didn't look into it and say well what is this what is the science of this this guy thought that he could cure everything including blindness leukemia cancer from adjusting

79:27your back this was his premise was based on how's it known it came from a seance and now there's no more blindness or leukemia amazing but there are still chiropractors that buy into that same idea that they can cure things that it's not just you're dealing with pain right and if they manipulate you they can relieve pain no they can cure you of certain ailments because of your spine being aligned incorrectly they're going to adjust it it's popping you just like this just like you do that with your fingers when you crack your knuckles that's it's the same thing it's like a release of nitrogen or something i'm not exactly sure what causes the crap but legitimately yeah but i don't see did you see anything no okay maybe i'm wrong with them being able to write prescriptions i'll tell you that tony bosch could not write prescriptions but he was doing exactly

80:15he was doing it anyway or irregardless we say we say regardless of miami because we're we're illiterate but but i i use it here ironically though so you know but i think he might have swiped a pad from his doctor who from his father who was a legitimate a legitimate doctor so he was forging his dads yeah and he had he had you know what they called medical directors so that's part of these the whole anti-aging scheme really prospered in the state of florida as you can imagine and um in no small part because there's a lot of doctors who from all over the country retire to florida but they are still medical doctors so you have guys like tony bosch entrepreneurial uh with an entrepreneurial spirit who want to open up these anti-aging clinics and they need what's called a medical director so they go to a legitimate doctor and they say hey kind of rent us we'll put your name on the business

81:06you'll get a cut of the action and they're basically renting out their prescription pad and dea number so that guys you know these other operators who in in this case identify themselves falsely as doctors can you know exploit that uh that power of the prescription pad and so that's what was happening here and more problematic he started treating high school kids oh no and whose parents and baseball coaches had heard about him through word of mouth and brought these kids to him to get an advantage um you know we have a big immigrant community obviously in in miami we have a lot it's a huge baseball community um you have people who are smuggled specifically into the country for the purpose of playing baseball uh and signing those big guaranteed contracts right out of high school and so you have parents and kids and coaches looking for every advantage were going to this guy

81:58you know they weren't hearing about him in the high school locker room these were coaches and parents who were bringing their parents to you might say a guy who they presumed was a real doctor but nonetheless looking to cheat you know to gain the system and that's problematic when you have this guy who knows he knows he's not a doctor but he was a true believer in himself he really thought he was helping people and listen the proofs in the pudding this guy could not exploit traditional advertising he wasn't doing billboards and tv ads he just he was strictly word of mouth so he had clients who were getting results including nearly 100 cops who were referring their friends to his clinics so these parents came to him looking for help help for their kids um and those kids are are victims yeah well that's for sure this is the last thing you want to do to a kid especially one that

82:42doesn't have any sort of a real hormonal ailment is to inject exogenous hormones into their body it just their brain up their emotions their their entire endocrine system crashes afterwards it causes depressions it leads to suicide a lot of kids and depending what you're doing to them you could also be risking their offspring potential offspring for sure yeah you could be killing their sperm yeah yeah you definitely can you have a disproportionate amount of i mean in the steroid use population of um autism childhood cancer just horrible horrible things that happen to the the children of people who are who are on some of these drugs i think a lot of the folks that are looking at it in terms of a career in baseball or in any other sport where they could benefit they go hey this is the price that i have to pay in order to excel at this extraordinary avenue for financial gain well tony

83:37bosch was treating manny ramirez and when he was in boston and um low testosterone you know he was getting on in the years and bosh started treating him put him on a protocol as he called it um take the you know x amount of y substance etc at this time each day micro dosing as you said so um it wouldn't in the event that they were randomly tested it wouldn't be detected i don't know if that worked or not or he was giving them placebos on certain days i don't know what the the scheme was but manny starts to come back again i don't know if it was psychosomatic or he really was actually performing better and that's when he got his dodgers deal was like a 40 million dollar deal theoretically thanks in no small part to this guy who was you know who was juicing him and that's and then manny gets busted pisses dirty after a surprise test before a game um because according to bosh he didn't

84:37take the micro dose on precisely the instructions you know that he had given him and so pissed dirty and as a result of the what you would assume was negative publicity from manny getting busted and then connecting it to tony bosch in miami that was the word of mouth that got a rod's cousin to come to bosh and say hey you should meet my cousin he's playing this game in tampa i'll come up and and meet him and it turns out that it's alex rodriguez it's just amazing that someone who made as much money as alex rodriguez has knuckleheads like that who can't see the future because if i was his friend i'd be like hold on hold on hold on he's already been busted dude listen to me they're looking at him they're watching no nine yeah meanwhile they weren't even they weren't even they don't listen baseball is like everything else in american life now including politics it's the wwe

85:28okay when bud selig the steroid commissioner was on his way out the door literally on the eve of retirement and he's like you know what i need to look like i'm doing something about this because i got a great big fat asterisk by my name in you know in the record books here like all these players do with the steroid era i need to look like i'm i did something on my way out the door so he calls a second in command rob manfred and says let's do let's do something about this and they go after the biggest scalp you can in the game alex rodriguez yeah and so when they needed alex as the heel that was the storyline yeah okay so they nail alex all right um you know the vince mcmahon of the game bud sealy goes i took care of him retires rob manfred who was in charge of this whole botched you know quasi-legal operation investigation biogenesis and and alex gets the the top gig and is now the

86:23commissioner of baseball and he goes you know what would be a good storyline now what if i bring a rod and pete rose back as commentators oh jesus and he did for a while a-rod and pete rose were working together by the way they were damn good they were damn good television dude and as commentators until pete rose got in trouble again they asked him but now you got rob manfred who basically put it all on the line and a-rod who put it all on the line fighting each other in this battle of the legacies with bud selig now they're posing with j.lo out at nightclubs and stuff because that's the new storyline the story like you know one day you're the heel the next day you're the hero hero it's like whatever whatever and and they're just selling everybody this this bill of goods that this is all real did he really have a picture that was him with a minotaur's body centaur centaur

87:18is that real so this is i don't know if this is apocryphal or real i know people who have been in the apartment and claimed to have seen it the problem is i don't i don't know if they're telling the truth or they're like kind of like fueling the the apocryphal tale so yeah i want to believe i want to believe we all want to that's the problem we all want to believe so so i mean spoiler alert we we did it we put it in there little kids face amazing just hilarious the way you did it is hilarious the kid who plays a rod is a amazing it's a light eyes he's amazing well it's just his is like when he's do i don't want to give too much of her away but making the funny faces in court it's like hilarious i mean it's so good and i was just laughing i was like this is so ridiculous and to know that this is all something that really happened and i have to tell you we've been we've

88:08been at this making documentaries for like 20 years now almost and so this is the most as ridiculous and absurd as this is it is the most meticulously researched documentary we have ever done why we're dealing with some very powerful litigious yes individuals and organizations so we knew we had to get this 100 right not to mention the way we shot this on set on location for 10 days we had the playback on the set so we were committed to this dialogue right right and so we had to make sure we went and obtained transcripts that were never released publicly of uh sworn testimony in the case to be able to cross-check some of the stuff that we were told and we're going to put in the documentary and we just i mean we actually shot at some of the actual locations in miami where these real events took place the fountain live at the fountain blue hotel you know the nightclub the sports grill

89:04in south miami the ritz carlton kibaki we actually took the kids there put the facial hair on put the cop uniforms on and the pinstripes on and we just film them all over town what's funny about about it in miami no one looked twice at us no one thought anything of just us running around these little kids with beards and mustaches and gray hair and the scene where they're looking for the blood in the nightclub we lost the vial i'm like what in the the fact that he drew his blood in the bathroom and then lost the vial like jesus christ it was so crazy i was just watching it like shaking my head like this is all real this is how this went down that guy was worth how many hundreds of millions of dollars how much oh 400 over 400 million was his gross uh revenue just in baseball and he just had knuckleheads i mean the fact that he was like willing to keep this guy around him

89:56he grew up in miami that's who you surround yourself with when you when you grow up in miami and that scene was a i mean that scene we had like all those kids like all the extra kids partying shout out to my director of photography bg goldneck he did a hell of a job like that was so complicated to shoot it's a great documentary all your shit's great thank you i'm a big fan of all your stuff but this one's particularly silly you should come down to miami you should we're doing i'm almost embarrassed to say it i just mentioned it to you earlier we turned cocaine cowboys into a stage play yeah you were saying that before we started and i'm like it's called confessions of a cocaine cowboy you might remember in the documentary um there was a hitman jorge riviera who he worked for la madrina the godmother griselda blanco and um when we first started researching the doc in 2004

90:53we obtained a seven volume 1300 page deposition that he gave and normally in a depot you're like the answer is like yes no yes no i don't remember you know don't recall this was like he was a cooperating witness against griselda in in in miami-dade county state of florida was a three capital murder charges so three death penalties we're talking old sparky cases and the electric chair and so he was cooperating witness so it read like a monologue it read like i'm reading it and going i went to new world school of the arts high school which was where i studied theater so i was reading a lot of plays and i was like oh this is this would be like a great play and 15 years later we we turned it into confession of a coking confessions of a cocaine cowboy and you said it's kind of funny so someone described it right there oh yeah my my producing partner um that's

91:50yancy arias from uh formerly spoiler alert he's not on the show anymore his character got into some trouble uh queen of the south on usa um he's he's brilliant in the show uh and so my producing partner david sipkin describes it who uh co-produced cooking cowboys and edited it edited it with me he's described as a cross between cocaine cowboys and my twitter feed that's how he that's how he described it so like it's a little reverent um it's obviously a little absurd if you're going to put kind of cocaine cowboys as a live theater event so we kind of acknowledge the absurdity of it um and the the surreal exploitation of it and you know the guy michelle houseman who's the the director of the play at miami new drama at the colony theater in miami beach on lincoln road he said um he said why are we doing cocaine cowboys for the theater in 2019 and i was like

92:44it's a good question because like it speaks to the relevance of like why do this now and i said well if you take away from the documentary you take away the drugs and the money it's really a story about immigrants children and gun violence that's what it's about and what could be more relevant in the contemporary conversation than immigration children and gun violence and so ultimately i wanted to make a story about the miami of yesterday but the america of today like i said the miami of today is the america of tomorrow so here's a story about miami in the 1980s but it really resembles the america of today and so to do that we had to not make it totally depressing and disturbing we injected a lot of humor and a lot of irreverence into it um the woman zela mendoza who plays griselda blanco also plays the state attorney so she has this dual role as sort of these and dueling

93:40antagonists against rivie the hitman and it's just a you know i was writing it um with a friend orrin squire this great tv writer and everyone because i felt that they were flip sides of the same coin i think the state attorney is an interesting character does she wear different clothes oh yeah she changed and has a has different hair and in fact the performances are so different and the voices are so different that zeela does some people after the show would be like oh my god she was amazing zeela was amazing as uh as uh griselda blanco who's the actress that plays the state attorney kathy and we're like oh we won't tell we're like that's so weird like the last time i heard that being done effectively was mars attacks when jack nicholson played everybody cowboy the president played the president yeah i like mars attacks it's a great fight these real underrated uh tim burton hugely

94:35underrated amazing scores that yeah that whole i don't know like especially now i feel like it really holds up i still go hank talking about ufo related things it was preposterous it's just it's i love that movie very few people love it oh my god they're crazy it's great it's holds up man i watched it like two years ago it holds up it's amazing it's it's wonderful it really is that's interesting though that you chose to use the same woman did you think about that for a while do you have another woman but you always wanted to do it from the beginning yeah always i just i have a strange relationship with the state attorney in miami-dade county um she's been the state attorney for about 26 years now and and you know when she was first elected she was like the first uh cuban state attorney in the state of florida um very ambitious she was she's been the only

95:28state attorney we've had since janet reno left us for the clinton administration whoa that's how long she's been state attorney so now she has one of those records where you examine it and you say okay what's actually happening in this town when people say to me like why is miami so corrupt why you know why does corruption grow you know greater and wider than oranges in in miami and the reason is when you have the top cop in town does not effectively enforce public corruption laws and does not pursue public corruption you have an area where it's just you send a message of impunity that's the bottom line you know no trouble arresting innocent young black kids on drug charges or whatever but like when it comes to enforcing public corruption she's just non-existent and so what happens is you you have a and of course it it's like the broken windows theory of crime if

96:29you allow petty corruption to to to go eventually some of these politicians wind up literally in a closeted city hall accepting bags full of money and the only thing we've been able to rely on to some extent is the feds coming in and trying to help but you have a state attorney who has never in her 26 years in office charged a police officer for non-duty killing whoa despite a proliferation of these incidents so it's not like it's oh it's not happening as often the incidents have exploded and the reason the incidents have exploded is because police know that they'll get away with it because kathy will not prosecute them so the message that's being sent is a dangerous one and it has created a toxic effect with the relationship between obviously police and and and the citizens that they're supposed to be protecting and serving and it's it's created a very dangerous

97:22you know situation uh in the city and and it's also created a situation where just like mayor after mayor just gets away with pure you know oh god yeah and that's that's it's not a sexy answer people always like why is miami so corrupt and people want some sort of sexy answer and i say well when the top cop is the same person for 26 years you know if you're looking at something if you want to know what's wrong in a community or with anything you don't look at what changes i mean mayors come and go police chiefs come and go commissioners come and go um killers come and go you know criminals come and go you look at the constants you say what's been the same here for 26 years that's got to be the problem and sure that's that's the problem so i wanted to make a statement about the state of miami today um and say that that you know uh also griselda blanco was born in colombia in a very

98:20difficult time in the history of that country during la violencia this brutal civil brutal civil war between uh liberal and conservative parties that went on for like 20 years almost caused caused the horrific murders of like 200 000 people um some very brutal some very public it's been reported that she as a hobby with her friends and their youth just run around and just bury bodies that were just lying in the street or lying around like that was just a hobby something for the kids to do and so you grew up in that environment you were saying earlier like you're up in a cult you grow up in that environment your psyche is you know you're not exactly born into money or power or wealth you know your dad's not a judge you don't exactly have those benefits or opportunities and if you can try to make something of yourself i mean the problem of course is that rosella blanco went into a an

99:10illicit an illicit trade but a trade that a lot of people in colombia were getting into from that era um it's just i i wanted to have a discussion about a lot of the characters argue with each other in the play about how different everybody is it's like that and how miami is like game of thrones and paradise with slightly fewer dragons you know like we just self-segregate and it becomes this battle of fiefdoms and and um because we're not like we're not multicultural we're very much segregated like i always say the common misconception about miami is that we're a melting pot we are not a melting pot we are a tv dinner where sometimes the peas fall into the mashed potatoes you know we we have our little kingdoms you know by flag by nationality very much so um and so everybody's arguing about how we're different and the play sort of when you walk away you're like okay but this is a

100:01conversation about how we're all the same and some of us have different opportunities than than than others and it's just a matter of what we're able to make of those of those opportunities and that was sort of the comparison i was making by because it's a little locally it's a little scandalous the fact that the same actress plays both of these these very powerful so because kathy the state attorney is a very powerful popular figure so because you've publicly stated that there's a reason there's parallels between her and gusel and let's say the portrayal is not the most flattering in the play i think she gets a fair shake in the play but but rivie the character through his commentary comes down pretty hard on her i've been publicly very um critical of her uh i think in a hope in a constructive way uh on publicly and via social media um and uh but i mean 26 years

100:58age almost 70 people yeah but that is fascinating you've got to wonder if it's a spoken agreement or if this is just a a known sort of uh just this is just how she does business you don't have to worry i call it a conspiracy of convenience because not every conspiracy involves a bunch of you know a rogue's gallery at a board room table in a dark smokey room you know it's talking about okay how are we going to conspire i'm going to do so conspiracies of convenience are just like people are in positions of power and everybody just kind of wink wink nod not everybody knows what they're supposed to do right and you don't ruffle feathers and you don't you don't with conventional wisdom and uh this is the way it's oh wait this is the way it's always been done so this is the way we do it and everybody just kind of either fall in line or they get rid of you one way or another and so that's

101:50just the way fiefdoms operate this sounds like such an exhausting project to create a play out of that sort of horrific time in miami's history it was exhausting how could i like when you told me you were doing it that's the first thing i thought of well being a lazy i'm like oh that's so much time you know it seems like so much time to do i don't want to do that you know there's there's it's like this documentary racket is not very profitable so i wanted to know where the real money is theater i swear blaze playwright you're gonna make your fortune billy so and i said to to my my co-author orrin squire and the director i was like listen it's like this has to be a purely theatrical experience too no no projections no archive like news footage like we use in the documentary i'm like if in miami first of all these days if i just got to put my pants on to leave the house that's a hassle

102:48meaning like if i could just when i'm home if i can just chill i want to just chill right so if i'm gonna be like okay i gotta go see a play i'm like so first thing i gotta do is put my pants on all right so put my pants on then you gotta get in the car you gotta brave this traffic it's spring break on right now miami beach it's out of control so you gotta go to south beach go to the theater lincoln road and then like pay your hard-earned money to see this play because plays are more expensive tickets for plays are a lot pricier than a movie right and so or a netflix subscription so you go i'm like i don't want people to be there like what the hell i could have just stayed home and watch this on on netflix i want people to go like holy and we're actually seeing that we're seeing um a really disproportionate number of people coming to the theater who have never been

103:35to like a live play before because of their interest in the subject matter the title confessions of a cocaine cowboy or the documentary so people are coming and they're rowdy and they're like interacting with the actors it's kind of fun because we do a lot of breaking of the fourth wall where rivie talks to the crowd or the cops talk to the crowd and so they're talking back the audience and it's fun and and very and and funny and and uh i think pretty thought provoking particularly at the end and um they just like uh this audience is is we're like oh you can't duplicate this experience in any way you know that i mean like yeah i mean i mean watching comedy on netflix is one thing being in the room is a totally different energy yeah it's a different yeah it's a rush it's like you know it's like a drug how many seats uh this year four hundred and twenty oh it's great for twenty

104:21fairly intimate but that's a good size for like an intimate live show it's huge and and um it's a beautiful it's like a historic theater in miami beach there's not a lot of what's it called which the colony theater okay i know where that lincoln road it's that walking street you probably get back when we had the comedy festival you probably did it where you were at the fillmore and and you might have done this i did the jackie gleason theater yeah um i don't i don't i've done a few different places there i don't remember all of them this is a smaller room for you but like it's a great cool space it used to be an old movie theater my grandma used to go see movies we don't preserve a lot of our history in miami it's like i was saying earlier like we're such a young city literally young and we're like america's perpetual rebellious teenager we're like everything new we don't like we have a

105:13transient population a lack of institutional memory and we're like history let's just knock this down and build new because that's the only way to create jobs like knocking down redesigning it rebuilding it repopulating it building it taller creating more revenue because we don't have a state income tax in florida so it's just like just constant hustle so to have a place like that where it's like oh we're gonna take a deep breath and say this is a cool spot there's no venues like this in town it's been here for almost 100 years like let's preserve it you know let's preserve the original architecture let's preserve some of the the old there's like this old carving of like pelicans like this really creepy like old school deco art they just preserved it and it's really it's like the perfect environment to do a show that's like buy miami for miami yeah the no income

105:57tax thing is very attractive to people people move to states that don't have income that's one thing that pulls nevada pulls people into nevada why do you think oj simpson moved there yeah like there was a law where they couldn't get his money right we have the homestead uh law like the you know the you can you can't get the money you can't get the house you can it's it's a great place to sort of hide assets i told you like a third world country it's like a banana republic yeah because he got he lost the civil case the 30-plus million dollar judgment against him yeah so he bought a house in florida now he is he still there oh i don't think so i think he's in vegas now i think i think he they released him but they were gonna i think he might be on paper so i think he might have to stick around i'm not certain because for a while he wanted i think he was asking permission to go to florida

106:47when he first got released and the attorney general florida was like no thanks to be fair though she was a blonde woman so she was scared so too soon what i mean too soon with him it's a he's he's one of the weirdest cases in all of american pop culture history i mean he is one of the weirdest cases i i you know there's a fantastic photo that someone made a meme of howard cosell with bruce jenner on his one side and then o.j simpson on his other side and howard cosell saying i've seen the future you're not going to believe this because it is so goddamn crazy that one of the most famous and beloved people forget before that murder beloved i mean he was like the rock oh absolutely right in a lot of ways maybe even maybe even well i don't want to say more blood the rock's pretty beloved but that level i mean endorsements hurts rental car ads he was in movies

107:49absolutely loved him yeah but loved personality and comedies yes you know and and uh well it was inevitable he would wind up in florida of course but but like um crazy just crazy this is something that in the end not to spoil it you've been so so kind to not spoil screwball uh but in the end that's also part of the the message is the idea that and why we use the children these athletes are heroes to these kids they look up to them these are supposedly role models and how many professional athletes do you know who you would be i want my kids to idolize this this person like legitimately like legitimately very few sure so it's like that's the and that's where that whole sort of like lie cheat steal to get ahead message i think is what's what we're teaching our children these days and and that's the case with like o.j simpson it's like this kid people idolize that guy so did they ret did a

108:53rod retire did he ever come back from this game i don't know anything about baseball for one season he did yeah for one season he came back he got the largest suspension in the history of the game but they reduced it right they reduced it but it remained the largest so how much games was it a year ultimately it was like 160 it was almost like a basically a full season and the following season he came back played about another year after he was injured for a while i think actually he might have been injured the following year then came back the year after and then um he retired and the yankees made him like they gave him like a front office job where he would mentor young players really can't make this up dude really yeah but that is so interesting that he didn't become persona non grata like jose canseco did right it's i don't know how quite how to explain it and listen

109:41it's been one of the greatest i think reputation rebuilders not even a rebuilder remember he was hated yankees fans used to boo the guy like he was not a beloved figure as a baseball player now he's like i mean my mom knows right who he is i mean she calls him jlo's boyfriend but she know the bottom line is she knows like he this i mean i think they're going to be studying this case study of like image rehab is going to be studied for like decades to come in like pr classes calculated i think it was a lot of it was accidental but but like look at he's never even apologized or really admitted what he did he never went on like the maya culpa tour like lance armstrong poor lance armstrong test positive no he never failed a test either yeah see that's part of it like he was on this shady doctor's dockets how the did the doctor use the right name like that's that's what's so

110:36crazy like why did you use his name what do you mean why did you use a rodriguez how about use a pseudonym well you have to remember tony was doing a lot of cocaine at the time right and he was like he was like in a spiral his whole life was you know he was about to hit rock bottom while he was running this business and what's funny is so his medical records there was some file folders but a lot of them were in composition books like just old school cvs like like do you use in the movies yeah that's so that's why that's the i cannot he wrote in and he would scribble and so those would be he'd write patient nicknames and dose and then some of it would just be like stream of consciousness like middle school girl like journal like he would write his name in different fonts he would come up with different like business ideas and plans and and make signs you know for

111:25like his businesses and and talk about motivational speaking ideas that he had it was like it's a real journey like into into his mind of a cocaine addicted fake doctor in my head you know which is an interesting journey i gotta tell you right um but like he uh so these composition books on some pages there would be like code names like um you know uh he had a guy that was like you know that he'd name after cars or he'd name after you like mijo or little spanish words or or things like that um he had a a player when he bought he brought him like he bought him an suv of some kind so he like you know he code named him like tahoe whatever the car was you know another one was dui because he had just gotten a dui so that was like but then like after a while he just kind of abandoned it and then was like a rodriguez or alex rodriguez by the way there's a ton of alex rodriguez's

112:18in miami but when you start seeing a-rod yeah in the books it's kind of a kind of a tell you know a little bit jesus christ he just got sloppy you know like drug addicts what does that guy do now um well he's five five years off uh off of cocaine which is good he went to federal prison and rightfully so for the kids for the high school kids that he uh when the judge sentenced him specifically said you know it's one thing for consenting adults to engage in this behavior it's another thing for you to drag kids into this mess and potentially poison them um so he went to federal prison get this he winds up in a camp so it's like minimum security federal prison in alabama and he winds up teaching in part a nutrition class to his fellow inmates he's in there with jeff skilling of enron who's teaching a business class to his fellow mates and jesse jackson jr

113:19who's teaching a political science and civics course to their fellow inmates they say prison's the best place to to learn and uh so we actually so one of my you know we were running out of money on this movie and so as you always do with movies and and so there's a couple scenes that we wanted to do that we ran out we just couldn't do we had to cut them from the schedule so one of them was an epilogue with all the kids in federal prison like jumpsuits and like tony teaching and like a little baby jesse jackson jr a little baby jeff skilling from enron a little baby and another thing so another thing bosh was doing is he was like you see him at the beginning of the movie sitting at the bar at the ritz carlton keeper skating and he's writing little protocols on a cocktail napkin for the bartenders on how to build muscle how to lose weight so he was doing that in prison for inmates for like

114:10vitamins and supplements that they could buy in the commissary he would like he'd be like hey yo dr t i wanna i wanna i'm trying to build muscle mass and be like okay here here's a go go to the commissary buy these vitamins or these supplements and there you take it this time yo tony i'm looking to lose weight what do i do and he'd give him and then guard started coming to him like hey i'm looking you know my wife wants to lose some weight or what yeah he'd give him protocols wow yeah so i mean he's very i told you he's very much a true believer in himself um he's got a lot of faith uh in in himself and he for a while was planning on opening a nutritional supplement business across the street from marlins park post or like this is pretty recently it hasn't happened yet but like he's looking around for new for new opportunity and miami is a is a land of of new opportunity i told

115:03you this last time i saw you that it's an old saying that i love that um la is where you go and you want to be somebody new york is where you go and you are somebody and miami's where you go and you want to be somebody else it's just it's not only a town of reinvention it's like it's just always been a sunny place for shady people i just always wanted to know what happens to a fake doctor who gets busted selling steroids to kids what does that guy do for a living afterwards i think now he's i i suspect now he's just sort of being you know uh uh subsidized by family and friends right now he does have kids and and child support probably to to make somehow i don't know exactly what he's up to i'd like i'll ask him the next time i i'm gonna see him this weekend q and a's oh yeah he goes around oh yeah he does and and he's quite it's quite funny he's quite uh soberish um

115:50ish ish well i think he still drinks but he doesn't he doesn't do uh illicit drugs anymore yeah and that was uh that was that was bad for a while yeah i'm sure yeah that's always the uh the bad decision-making root what's what's funny about this is that he so we caught him like on his way into federal prison originally so in november of 2013 alex was in the midst of the arbitration that you see at the end you know that we portray at the end of the movie in mlb's offices in manhattan and we get a call from his publicist and his publicist says yo alex is on a break from the arbitration and he's coming down to miami he's got an office in coral gables which is this like very wealthy affluent suburb um adjacent to the city of miami and it's actually the city where the university of miami is located where alex rodriguez field is at um on campus and so they said listen

116:43alex would like to meet with you to talk about possibly doing some kind of tell-all documentary jesus this is november 2013. so i'm like yes please yeah so i figured like this is a hush-hush meeting you know we're gonna do this on the download it is office and carl gables they say meet us some weekday high noon at hillstone restaurant which is the power lunch spot in that neighborhood the most prominent corner in the city floor-to-ceiling windows open kitchen everybody from the street to the dishwasher can see everything going on in that dining room they want to meet us there at noon so i'm like oh okay we go they're slammed every seat taken mob scene around the host stand three four deep at the bar they escort us down the center me and my producer alfred spellman right down the center aisle parade us practically and you know espn in the 30 for 30s they really fetishize

117:44the directors so like they have like video interviews with us like you know in bumpers like every hour like little little segments and so people sometimes recognize me usually in miami like close to um because we did the um you know docs so if there was any play any place i was gonna be recognized it was two miles from the university of miami and so take us right down the middle and there in the center booth uh on this elevated platform around the back is alex rodriguez holding court and we literally so we literally have to like step up on stage to join him and like all eyes are on us in this place and i don't know what we kind of get introduced and i need like an icebreaker so i'm like so who's gonna call page six you or us sure two weeks later it was in page six and so we sit there and um alex didn't laugh the publicist laughed that's like a publicist joke you know i guess so um

118:42because it was clear that we were there to be seen having this meeting yeah it was so clear why do you think they did that it was it was part of alex's when you said was there a plan there was kind of a plan it was part of alex's like uh pr offensive or pushback against major league baseball and so um we sat there with him for almost an hour and a half and he just lied just lied to us um the whole time and i didn't know that i'm not a about everything i never met tony bosh this is all but you look at my records i you know i my performance didn't improve after the time he claims to have been treating me i'm not a baseball fan i'm like you to me they i call it screensaver all right i i just but my producing partner alfred is a degenerate baseball fan he gets like the mlb.com package has it on his desk on his ipad all day long during the season i'm just like i i mean i

119:33guess he does that instead of ambien you know like less sleep eating with baseball i guess i don't know so he's just like but he's a huge baseball fan and when i left i was like he made a lot of good points alex did alfred's like lied about everything and i can't blame him he lied to everybody in those days i mean he was in a he was desperately trying to salvage his his career and his legacy and he he allegedly lied to the dea and a queen for a day meeting who the lies in a queen for a day meeting other than george papadopoulos i mean you're supposed the whole point is you're supposed to tell the truth that they're not gonna gonna with you um but but he allegedly did that so what is a queen for a day meeting so queen for a day meeting with the feds you get a letter for it they're like we're investigating you're a witness in an investigation we understand you may have participated

120:18in some illegality or committed some crimes in the course of this larger investigation but we're not after you we just want you to come in feel comfortable and free to tell the truth to our investigators so that we can pursue our investigation accurately and fairly and we will not whatever anything you say will not be held against you essentially in a court of law so you're queen for a day they call it you get a letter a queen for a day letter and the whole actually they call a queen for a day and so i don't that's the thing the feds have and so alex was free to just speak the only thing you can't do is lie to a federal agent that is a crime and that is in fact i think what george papadopoulos was ultimately he lied in his queen for a day meeting the whole point of a queen for a day meeting is to test to not lie and not and because you can't get in trouble essentially for any crimes that

121:10you admit they are about the investigation so that was the allegations that he actually lied so i listen i'm a documentarian people lie to me for a living i'm i'm fine with that especially because they spell my name right in page six and that was in bold i don't have the juice to make that happen alex's alex's publicist had the juice to make to make that happen i was flattered um that they'd you know write about me but like um but you didn't think that he was lying i suspected he wasn't telling us the whole truth but i thought he made some interesting points and alfred so alfred had was a pitcher in high school north miami beach senior high go chargers and alfred had actually pitched against alex rodriguez this is like one of his only war stories from his baseball years in high school right is that alex was a senior out i think alpha was going to some sort of ron frazier

121:58uh baseball camp out of um and they did the summer league game and alfred is is i'm my eyes are glazing over telling the story but like alfred alfred's pitches against a-rod and who was already a senior already a beast everybody knew this guy was gonna was gonna go in the draft and be huge everybody knew about that he had been the talk of the high school baseball community in miami forever and so alfred pitched against him and he held a-rod to a triple of course alex you know a-rod smacked the out of this ball sailed away but he al he was it was only a triple it wasn't it was a rare not home run for alex so i thought oh we have like a funny personal anecdote like we can find some common ground here right you're talking to someone who might be a potential interview subject you know and so i'm like actually alex you and alfred have met before alfred rolls his eyes

122:46like he's going to embarrass me and tell this dumb story so i tell out like isn't this funny like you guys but and alfred held you to a triple and he kind of looked at me like you're looking at me right now he's just he was totally unamused and maybe looked even a little hurt or offended oh wow this is the greatest baseball one of the greatest baseball players of all time the highest paid baseball player in history and here i'm just telling this cute story from like 20 years earlier or whatever and he seemed like uh he held me to a triple i'm like how could you be upset about that you're one of the greatest of all times like super winners but it's like yeah it's that's why i left i was like this guy's a really interesting character like he's a complicated guy he's an interesting guy he's a sensitive guy like i was curious about him i was excited about the prospect of interviewing him

123:38and man they practically ghosted us out yeah in january of 2014 that's when they lowered they reduced the suspension i started hitting up every month i started hitting up the publicis yo following up on that meeting you know like because it's funny in the page six article it mentioned he met with the 30 for 30 filmmakers billy corbin alfred spellman uh he's been shopping a book proposal to these publishers the book proposal thing was total bunk literally not true the the publishers are like we'd love to get one but we haven't gotten a book proposal from a-rod he really did have the meeting with us but like so everything was just we were just kind of pawns in his game which is cool whatever have they responded to this documentary not exactly but i for only six or seven months i'm emailing with the publicist and then it was clear that they weren't interested

124:22so and that became the tactic by the way when you said was there a strategy the strategy was to shut the up um and just like like you said like with the president big new york times big eskandalo escandalo expo day and then maybe if we just tomorrow in this 24-hour news cycle in this in this world of just being us being hammered with bad news you know in 240 characters every nanosecond of every day just just passes and they just they they played it just so so beautifully and brilliantly and then almost a year later we got a call from a friend of tony bosh you guys want to meet with tony bash he wants to talk to you about doing a documentary i'm like hell yeah so we take the meeting really interesting guy we meet with him several times over several months and then he says listen i want to do this interview he goes i'm getting sentenced to prison tomorrow and

125:14we knew about that you know that the case was ongoing um he said but look i expect the judge will give me 45 to 60 days to surrender to complete this drug rehab program i'm in and then i'm only going to get like a year and a half two years in prison and so we could find a couple days before i have to surrender to do this interview and i'm like dude listen let's see what happens tomorrow i was like depending on how much time the judge gives you like you're going to prison one way or another like maybe you want to spend some time with your kids get your affairs in order let's make a decision tomorrow whether or not we're going to take two three four days out of your life for this maybe we'll do it when you get out right into a you know in a year and a half two years federal you do at least 80 percent of your time but then you go to halfway house sometimes for a

125:59little bit at the end um six months or as long as a year so he goes he goes to court the judge says four years and you have not 45 to 60 days to surrender but 45 to 60 minutes to surrender give me your you know take off your belt and your shoelaces and surrender to uh to the bop and he did and so we back burnered it again then i got a email from tim l frank who was the woodward and bernstein of the case he's the the journalist who got the stolen records from porter fischer the whistleblower and blew the lid off the whole thing at the beginning of 2013. he says to me porter fisher called me and he's asking me for your number to discuss possibly doing a documentary with you and i was like first of all like we sometimes don't make documentaries about things that we make documentaries about things that happened like 20 30 40 years ago this felt like it hadn't

126:52ripened yet like it was still a fresh wound you know like people wouldn't be willing to talk like you have to kind of wait for more time to pass you know and here we are and i'm not a spiritual guy i don't really believe in the universe talking to me or anything but i thought man if ever someone was trying to tell us something it was like you got to make this documentary the three primary players in this major baseball scandal all independently of each other contacted us within just over a year to talk about doing a documentary about it and i alfred jokes uh that um in florida when you get out of prison uh your first call is to your mother your second call is to rack and tour to our company you know to talk about a documentary and tony got out i hit up tony i'm like i'll come visit you in alabama how much time did he have to do he wound up getting a

127:41sentence reduction he did up just about two years and then he was in that camp in alabama i wrote him i said dude i'm gonna come up and visit you we'd talk about this he said i'll be in a halfway house in six months so let's just meet in miami i was like done and then when you meet porter and you meet tony and you see them their interviews in the documentary you realize like well alex this isn't even about alex you know it's like this is about these guys in this crazy you know carl hyacines like coen brothers botched robbery like story and so like that was the story we wanted to to tell and that was the tony porter part of the story well listen dude you nailed it it's a great documentary i really enjoyed it like i really enjoy all of them and uh just keep on knocking it out of the park man thank you a baseball metaphor i appreciate it i really appreciate it

128:28thank you thanks for having me jill uh give everybody your social media tell people how to get ahold of you at billy corbin v-i-l-l-y c-o-r-b-e-n i'm not the lead singer of smash bros and that's uh the same on twitter and on instagram billy corbin instagram same on twitter hit me up beautiful thanks brother thank you thank long was you