Tim Pool

00:02three-two-one hello Tim how's it going thanks for finally being here yeah long story right yeah I definitely drank too much coffee before we get here so if I hear like cracked out I swear to god I'm not on pills but uh glad to hear it but so we had a nice conversation on the phone about deep platforming and social media and what it was very obvious to me in talking to you was that you're way more schooled on this than I am so that's why I wanted to have this conversation with you right yeah part of what was like ivory listened to my podcast with Jack and you had a good criticism of it I agree with a lot of what he said first of all I agree that it was kind of boring yeah and it was I think in many for many reasons it was my fault I don't think I prepared enough for it and I also don't think I understood the magnitude of how other people felt about deep platforming on Twitter and in all

01:02social media YouTube and all these different things and what the ramifications are and how how much this means to people to have very clear and obvious obvious free speech outside of very egregious examples of like threats and daxing and prayer like that which I think we can all agree right I think this problem might be one of the like one of the worst problems we're facing right now politically yes you know the Twitter is where public discourse is happening it's where journalists are and this is a problem sourcing a lot of their stories yes so if you have somebody who's completely removed from public discourse that that's exile you know I can I can imagine why some people kind of lose their minds and that happens and I think going into that conversation with him well that's what I wanted it to be that's why I don't really interview people any kind of have conversations

01:53with them yeah occasionally we have disagreements and we you know we talk about things and you know but it's not I don't have like a mandate my only comment the only thing I wanted to get out of the conversation is I wanted to find out what it was like to start that organization and to have no idea when you were doing it that it was going to be essentially like one of the most important distribution at avenues for information an actus buddy an activist buddy of mine asked me if I knew why people smash windows smash Starbucks it's not because they think they're gonna cause damage it's because they want to strike a symbol down of something they view oppresses them Jack Dorsey is that symbol to a lot of people and you know to see here you know I was saying earlier is I think a lot of people look at you you're like a real dude you know your your conversations are real you

02:42have you're not one of these fake news journalists that people are very critical of that field they're their bias or of an agenda so when you sit down with Jack Dorsey and doesn't go anywhere people then feel like the last person who's not supposed to let us down let us down you know I mean ya know I look I thank you twice as much I felt it and I noticed that I got you know more hate for that one than probably anything that I've ever done and you know I'm not a guy shied away from criticism I try to figure out what I did wrong and try to regroup and figure out how to approach it again and in Jack's defense you know I think he's very open to talking about anything and also he's also very open for self criticism I mean he was openly discussing what they're doing wrong where they need to be clear were they needing to get better I don't believe any of it you don't I don't trust that

03:31guy not at all um you know why don't you trust him I mean first of all there's the obvious thing that is running he's a bunch of companies I could be wrong but I believe he actually left Twitter he wasn't the CEO for a while they brought him back in or something but it either sounds like why we check on that so yeah yeah you know I I I tried to avoid asserting things that I'm not 100% sure on but me too but I do it all the time I mean right right Jack says things like he said to you he said to Congress I believe he said to Congress um we don't ban people based on the content we ban people based on their conduct yes okay you yet you literally have a Terms of Service that bans specific content mm-hmm like what do you mean you don't maybe based on content there's a you know I'll just get into naming some people right Megan Murphy for example is a feminine Megan Murphy okay she's that

04:16woman that the whole issue with men are women right right so so here's what this is what's important she was responding to sweets explained that free so this could be along because we talked about yesterday would say I'm Harris but um so I don't know what too much about Megan Murphy but she's a feminist she's a what they call a trans exclusionary radical feminist but I think that that might be offensive says let's remember why Jack Dorsey was fired as Twitter CEO he was fired okay let's see what it says this isn't fortune 2008 that was there wasn't even was her a Twitter yeah yeah 2008 Jesus Christ Dorsey's management was so problematic Twitter's bored fire this is an opinion piece fired him a 2008 offering him a passive chairman role in silent board seat 2010 he was founding square square he went rogue okay so something happened you know it's funny as you called it an

05:06opinion piece but do they I don't know that's that's where we're at in journalism today what would someone set well it has to be an opinion piece when someone says was so problematic right I mean that's an opinion sure a real facts are he was fired you know you could state the specific reason that was stated by the company and that would be a non opinion piece yes you flavor it it's all opinion right it is right that is an issue right with information the distribution of information its flavored by opinion in ideology all of it yeah all of it well we can talk about that yeah I don't to derails know no one or anything yeah okay so Megan Murphy please explain it she was a feminist she said she's a so she's called her a trans exclusionary look I understand this is offensive you know I guess calling someone a trans exclusionary radical feminist I'm assuming wasn't wasn't offensive it's

05:52just used in an offensive way I suppose to them to her offensive against against people like her yeah so there's intersectional feminists right they tend to be trans inclusive meaning that they believe that someone who's born biologically biologically male can compete with those violet biologically female if they transition if they take hormones and things like that can compete compete right like were lifting and racing biking and stuff that's where I step in yeah yeah I've seen some of Ceph you've talked about the trans exclusionary group think they shouldn't and they've said things that are considered to be part I say considered to be offensive I'm not trying to assert who's offended by it but there's one recent story where a trans exclusion that radical feminists said that the trans rights movement is a men's rights movement right they say yeah in the case

06:38of Megan Murphy she responded to someone she said men aren't women though that's not harassment right that was a conversation with somebody else well it's also a fact she was permanently been well that's crazy right saying men aren't women okay out of context just say it right there men aren't women who the is gonna argue with that well I'll let you say trans people okay now you're into gray area but actually but the statement men aren't women I mean well you have to take it in context right right right but this is where we start getting into the nitty-gritty of I guess left-wing ideologies the culture war yeah if you go on Wikipedia and you look up man it will tell you a man is an adult human male right but if you look up trans man it will say a trans man is a men and so the trans section of Wikipedia is at odds factually with the man section so that so the reason I bring this up is

07:30that when it comes to Twitter then we can clearly see the bias hmm Twitter says you can't miss gender someone and that presumably that's why Megan Murphy was banned okay that's a left-wing ideology right but that's nice is she what she's talking about a specific human I think she was I think they were having a conversation about somebody I don't know the full details details but I gotta say look right now people are being banned or suspended for saying learn to code okay that's yeah what is that about you explain that to me to you and I saw a few people getting but should we start one at a time should we yeah let's stick with Megan well I mean I think we've we've we've reached that the point of Megan right she was banned for having a conversation and saying men aren't women though that was the quote men aren't women though right but so and they're saying that they would never ban

08:13someone for content they banned them for behavior right so if what is that behavior I have no idea like listen if you are using Twitter the way Twitter was designed to engage and respond to people is that bad conduct it can't be conduct it literally can't be conduct well not only that aren't you allowed to have opinions that are in fact based in biology yes you should be and action denied before we go any further before you get called all right you very you're very left right um I you know I typically say Center left central are like Oh God people were saying how many times someone commented how many times will Tim mention he's a social liberal laying I'm center left I was a big fan of Bernie you know Bernie Sanders he's still one of my favorite politicians people didn't call me a socialist you know conservatives call me left left calls me right whatever yes these labels

09:05are so toxic it's so confusing to people and it causes so much so much division between two sides it might not even differ that much you know the funny thing about it is I got my start during Occupy Wall Street and conservatives called me far left because I was reporting on the protests what they were doing police brutality right the arrests they said this is a far left activist now that I'm I've always been critical of the more extreme factions like I've got interviews from seven you know six seven years ago where I'm critical of these people now all of a sudden they're accusing me of being all trite for being critical of extremists and masks you know starting fires and things like we're all right adjacent that's my new favorite yeah boot licker already Jason well boot licker boot licker that's that's you know there's a lot of phrases that people use that mean literally

09:53nothing boot lerton um one of my favorites is to keep in the context of Twitter they say freedom of speech freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequence that literally doesn't mean anything it literally means nothing yeah well that's just trying to skirt around freedom of speech that's what it is so what ends up happening but but you agree with that like you should be able to speak your mind but you there's certain consequences of certain things that you say if I throw this bottle at the wall there's a consequence so that's a physical move motion if I drink this water there's a consequence all throughout the bathroom right so to sit to point out that actions have consequences is not actually addressing any of the issues it's it's just literally saying nothing but it's it's it's almost it's just like you can predict when someone will say it and

10:38it's usually when a specific person is banned they'll say freedom of speech freedom consequence all that stuff mm-hmm they don't say it when it's their people they say you know no but but this is true too in talking about Twitter censorship there are people on the Left who have been banned unjustly and this is where it gets actually scarier in my opinion you'll have I could name so many people Jesse Jesse Kelly was banned for no reason CJ Pierson was bad I think twice you see no reason what no they have no recourse I was an accident oops they said it was an accident yeah then for life or ban he was he was short amount of time no I so I could be wrong my understanding is Jesse Kelly was a conservative had his account just banned and there was a huge stink in the media like whoa whoa well this guy didn't do anything who is Jesse kills the conservative guy you know he posts

11:21snarky tweets he doesn't harass people are anything is a verified Twitter user so much of stories came up saying what is this Twitter then reinstates and said it was it wasn't a mistake now is it possible that they're just dealing with blunt tools and that there was a mistake oh well yeah absolutely absolutely um but then I'd have to the reason why I don't think it was a mistake very simply is for one we can see the ideological bent to their rules but then you look at someone like milo gianopolous like I'm not a fan of Milo I have to make sure like everybody knows that but just because I'm critical of the actions taken against him doesn't mean I support him but why was he banned cuz he tweeted it Leslie Jones right and the idea was that his tweet caused his fans to attack her which i think is that's a stretch that's that's that's just that's just ridiculous a go get her he didn't say

12:09attack her he was just tweeting at her yeah and you know what did he call her ugly did he say something like he was insulting arey I think he called her ugly he was he was mocking this feminist version of Ghostbusters right that's what he was doing he was talking it was like a critique of the movie look i-i've had Milo on the podcast way back in the day I had him on twice I enjoyed talking to him he's hilarious he's very smart he's very witty he's a character he's very much a provocateur but he's also you know he's pushing buttons on purpose like he's trying to get reactions from people right yeah rolling yeah I mean I almost think like he married a black I just let people know he's not gay people know whether he's not racist it's hilarious and I wouldn't I would never say something like I would say there but I almost think it you don't worry you can understand why Milo would do that

12:57he's calculated yeah but listen did that I don't think he did that earlier but I mean that's how much of an act a lot of what's going but if you talk to him off-camera he's a very nice guy very reasonable very polite I don't I don't trust them I'm not a I'm not a big fan you know he fat shame to do it at the gym right literally so making fun of a photo of a guy Jim yeah and I actually argue with him about at one point I was like you want to do like you won your skinny he's fat but no you could Lou you literally shamed him to the point where he's had to go to the gym to better himself and you're still making fun of him so did he wait a minute he shamed him before the guy went to the gym no well I mean I don't mean literally I mean like Milo's rhetoric of shaming people and getting them you know saying they're nasty and stuff and then it right but you out the

13:43guy listen to him and that's why I went to the gym no no I didn't mean literally you know I just mean like if Milo plays it up like I'm gonna shame people and tell they don't work out why would you but but I'll say that's look that's fine Milo can can say the nasty things and be the kind of person he is right he shouldn't have been banned from Twitter that's ridiculous why was this verification badge removed that was another it's it's it's plain as day well the verification one was weird it's like we're gonna keep you here but we're gonna take away the verification lets people know you're you right so it opens the door to fraud right and right it opens the door to fake Milo's and you don't know who's who because there's no blue checkmark that doesn't necessarily make any sense and then we get to Julian Assange right who couldn't get verified what yeah they wouldn't have and so a

14:25bunch of fake accounts started popping up wait a minute he's not verified Wiki I believe WikiLeaks is but and then I I think Julian Assange's account was changed into the defend Assange account but it's not verified at least I'm pretty sure why what was the reasoning behind not verifying Julian Assange I don't think there was one okay can we do let's take a little sidebar here yeah can you tell me what's wrong with Julian Assange like what what is the idea that this guy is some some super villain some bad person that did something terrible because he exposed some information like what it what am I missing it's bags I guess it depends on how conspiratorial you want to get but Julian Assange they they they've labeled him like the intelligence agencies on my camera I think I may have been James clapper said that he is acting as a private intelligence adversary of the US or

15:13something to that effect so of Russia you mean no the Julian Assange is acting independently against the US oh yes right right and so that the leaks Assange put out very damaging to the US right I think that's fair to say sure they don't like him so you know then he ends up getting accused of I believe molestation I'm you know it was secret sir it's it's it's pretty complicated he was having consensual sex with a woman accountant and then no no no I don't think so I think while they're in the in bed then the accusation was that he without a condom on he had sex with her again I don't think that's you know I'll be honest it's been years but I don't think that's the case I thought that there there's I'll say this there it's been years I think you know yeah but there was reference to a condom breaking and I think what happened was he said it was fine or something but but you know

16:07outside of that you know the guy's been locked up for how long you know I think I think it was the UN said something like it's a violation of his human rights or whatever and yeah we went over it was like what is it six years if he's been locked up for more than six years yeah that's crazy and it's because there's an man this is getting a little bit out of my wheelhouse but I think the US has preparing a grand jury indictment against him so but again you know and Chelsea Manning who gave him the information is now free and out of jail i I don't I think it's presumed that Chelsea did I thought it was maybe maybe it is you know it's been years since I've you know track a lot of this stuff in crime but back to the main point dr. Assange wasn't verified WikiLeaks was I'm pretty sure okay so verification is not just hey this is Tim Poole there's Jamie Vernon oh that's that's the real

16:57Jamie give him a blue checkmark it's we don't like you so we're gonna take away your check mark even though we know you're the real you it's it's like it's a class yeah it's an elite class of people a removal of approval yeah there are some people who I think have removed their own verification badges and you can just change your name and it erases I think PewDiePie did it once and then immediately immediately got it back that's yeah I could yeah but you know why remove someone's verification right what is that what does that do no I'm a hundred percent agreement so what was so another another interesting thing we can sort of segue into is why was a Laura Loomer banned you don't have to be a fan of Laura Loomer you can you can question her politics was she banned before after she jumped Nancy Pelosi's fence before but she's you know I'll say this man

17:46like I ate it about it if Oh God talking about Twitter if you even if you don't like her you got to admit she knows how to get press yeah she knows how to generate that buzz and then she's really good at it so but here's the thing she got banned permanently because she tweeted too I believe it was Ilan Omar criticism about Sharia law she accused I I couldn't you know you could pull the tweet but I think she accused Ilan of promoting Sharia which results in like all these horrific things and they banned her for it okay disagree with her all you want but that was her criticizing a politician mm-hmm you can't have a lawsuit against Donald Trump claiming you can't you know you Trump can't block somebody because it's a public forum but then when it comes to a congressperson public you know just permanently ban someone for saying something critical of their ideology and I think what's really

18:35critical here is that there has to be some sort of clarification for what policies were violated and how they were violated like that that seems to be especially for public figures yeah because it's one thing if we don't know a person in the background but when you know a person when it's a Laurel umer or a mildly innopolis and it's a public case and then you you get this feeling that to say no cuz we decide and this is it well Joe don't worry because no matter what Twitter does they're going to be defended by the New York digital you know journalist elites who will misrepresent what's going on in an effort to obvious Kate or sometimes outright lie about what's going on and this brings me to learn to code yeah okay yes right learn to code so else to you about this the other day right people are getting banned for learn to code I'm like what the is that like what is that so

19:29when coal miners were getting laid off a bunch of articles emerged saying teaching minors to code can we teach minors how to code and they were showing videos about it I don't believe it was it wasn't intended to be derogatory or insulting but to a lot of people that came off as this bourgeois let them eat cake oh your career has been destroyed you're a 50-year old man with a family go to Silicon Valley and do something you've never even thought about right let's so it came off as to a lot of people as just elitist right so when these journalists start getting laid off this meme spreads I don't know exactly where it started where they say learn to code to the journalists well this an interesting thing happens John Levine I think his name from the rap tweets someone from Twitter told me you will you can you can be banned for tweeting learn to code at a laid-off

20:16journalists conservatives start tweeting it far and wide like here we go this is a reporter from the rap was confirmed this all of a sudden then other journalists can't come out and say this is a lie this is not true this is fake news conservatives are spreading fake news again and they say we have a new up a new statement from Twitter that said we're only in banning we're only banning people who are engaging in our harassment campaign when I got a few problems is tweeting a meme at somebody critical of them a harassment campaign is that a meme yeah right yeah it's like it condenses an idea so here's the thing I got sent a bunch of screaming screenshots from people now people can fix screenshots I understand that some but but I checked some people Twitter accounts I saw that they were tweeting this and I believe for the most part this is what happened someone tweeted

20:57something to a BuzzFeed journalist you know oh you guys believed X Y & Z yeah whatever hashtag learned to code criticizing them mm-hmm suspension so then these journalists come out and say this is not true it's just people engaging in a harassment campaign so I said look at this guy's account he's got one tweet that says learn to code is that him harassing somebody and they said oh but you're taking out of context then john levine from the rep says update twitter spokesperson who was my source is now saying clarifying it is about the harassment campaign and then another journalist comes out and says he his quotes fake Twitter's and I ever saying it but here's the thing the editor-in-chief of The Daily Caller just a couple day I think a couple days ago took a tweet from The Daily Show and and he it was a it was a from the State of the Union and he tweeted learned to code

21:41and quote tweeted a video suspended so it's very clearly not about a harassment campaign but why then were all of these journalists so ready to jump up and defend Twitter when Twitter you know what I said okay if Twitter is claiming they're banning people who are engaging in harassment campaign you you mean they've confirmed they're banning people for tweeting learn to code they just consider it harassment how is it that learned to code is harassment but Kathy Griffin saying to all of our millions of fans I want these kids names several times or another verified account because not his famous literally calling it for the death of these kids and instructing people to kill them is not a banned Apple offense it's not harassment campaign that's true yeah I don't want to I don't want to mention the guy's name into the name but yes absolutely he said something the effective put them

22:25in a school lock it and burn it down and when you see them fire on them this guy's still active on Twitter there you know you know right now there are ant so now we can laugh there's there's so much here dude yeah we've got the proud voice all of them purged from Twitter okay say whatever you want about the proud boys if they deserve to be banned fine why wasn't an tyfa Bend a lot of people respond to me and say but Tim auntie fuzz random people who wear masks you don't know that's not true there are branded cells of an tyfa that have their own merchandise still active some of these groups have published the private information of law enforcement officers still active no action taken against them so you know i'd also this this in indicates a heavy left-wing bias i wouldn't necessarily say left-wing I would say intersectional identity Rhian ideological bias right it's it's it's

23:16it's hard to pinpoint what the tribes are in the culture war but Twitter is clearly acting in defense of intersectional activism now do you think that this is a mandate do you think this is written somewhere do you think there's people who are in the company that have power that are acting independently it's it's grains of sand they make a heap right urines you're in Silicon Valley you're in a very blue area the people who get hired tend to hold certain views and because they all live in their own bubble they believe they're the majority and thus they think they're acting justly to ban those who are at odds with them we're in the social engineering and and this brings back into journalism the big problem it's you know for decades I don't know how long journalism has been dominated by self-identified liberals there's the ton of polls I think was at about 2015

24:03poll showing Republicans are like seven percent of journalists or some ridiculously small number and it's a really simple reason for it news organizations are headquartered in big cities the big ones you know seeing even Fox News is in New York so there's a lot of people who work at Fox News are actually liberal people don't seem to know that you live in New York you're probably not a staunch conservative so what happens then news breaks you've got all these journalists cuz I've worked with them you worked for vice I worked for fusion and they sit around at tables they meet up after work from different offices and they talk about things and they all tell each other the exact same thing and so this is why you see covington happen these people follow each other on Twitter so when someone tweets this magic it got in the face of Nathan Phillips they only see each other's

24:43tweets and they just write it they don't do any journalism and it goes minute I can't believe four days and I was even in the New York Times correct yeah yep yeah the New York Times Aaron's talking about this and it's mind-blowing to me because the second video that came out from Covington you literally watch Nathan Phillips walking up to the kid and get his face bill Mahr you know what four or five days later says the kid got in his face and I'm like how are you yeah you know I shame on Bill Maher for for for saying that it's not true but at the same time we have a serious journalism problem and this links back to Twitter and and that that story in particular really almost like condensed all the problems into one unit yet and what's what's what's fascinating is following this story an op ed I believe it was in the New York Times said stop tweeting art said never tweet brian Stelter from

25:31CNN then got a statement that I always say I believe because I don't have the sources pulled up but someone from Twitter said journalists are the lifeblood of our platform and so that's why I think you've got these predominantly new york-based progressive writers they're fresh out of college they get hired for you know moderate salaries to work in a newsroom sit around each other all day sharing the same ideas not exploring anything outside their bubble and Twitter supports them because they're the ones who drive traffic to Twitter they keep the conversation going and I think that's where Twitter's bias partly comes from the other is that clearly you're in San Francisco you're gonna have you know your staff the people who are who are you know running content curation and banning people they lean left so why why Kathy Griffin wasn't banned probably because she's very famous but then I

26:20have to wonder why Alex Jones was so you only the only real differentiator there I guess is either mainstream notoriety or ideological tribe well Jamie you pulled up why Alex was banned to which is you know it's not very clear like when when you think about the fact that they were saying that he had never done anything on their platform that was bana bull and then what was the one final thing like any Jack didn't know what he was he got he confronted Oliver Darcy of CNN in DC and for several minutes was yelling at him while they filmed and apparently that's my understanding was the justification for banning him that he was harassing a journalist or something that effect which is in my opinion absurd and and was doing it on Twitter um I guess they posted to terms live on periscope with their own platform so if you do something on periscope they can get you banned from

27:14Twitter well that's the same thing right yeah the same because they're connected yep I don't know at what point lash I think it was last year there was like an announcement I saw it on Twitch but I think it also happened on YouTube they like collectively said if you do something on our platform sorry if you do something on another platform and we see that you could lose your status on our platform too or if that means public also and we see that with with patreon but I don't want to deviate into patreon yeah we can we could get to that later but so so I in my opinion so it's make it makes a good point how does Alex Jones get banned for giving that guy a hard time but Kathy Griffin doesn't get banned for literally calling for these children leading a harassment campaign against aims of someone with millions of followers led a harassment campaign I'm gonna use their language

28:02right if you're calling on your followers to do something York you're engaging in a campaign yeah but Alex Jones confronting the journalists who advocated for his banning is abandon bill offense here's the important thing about Jones Oliver Darcy said on CNN it wasn't that Jones broke the rules that got him banned because you know what what Darcy said is he's been breaking the rules in the past they never cared it was only because of media pressure they took action against him okay well we know many other people break the rules we know far-left accounts have doxed law enforcement we know Kathy Griffin a lot of harassment campaign there's no media pressure that's one of the big problems Twitter knows conservatives aren't going to be able to level any kind of campaign against their platform there's not scared of it right but you know I often wonder why is it that as as prominent

28:49and powerful as conservative groups can be why they often lose these battles and I'm not going to say this is the primary reason but I will point out do does Twitter believe that you know I often use Sargon of Akkad as an example the liberalist anti CW character do they believe he'll lead a group of liberal liberal lists and and individualist Stu Twitter headquarters with crowbars and Molotov cocktails of course not so that what did he get banned from my understand with patreon but what happens with his original Twitter thing was that he posted an image of interracial gay porn at white nationalists so but I don't I don't I think that was the first time and then he got banned for that heat well he then he came back to the platform and then got I don't know what happened a second time I think it was banned invasions are them the porn rules because sometimes I'll be scrolling

29:40through my feet and you'll just see porn I understanding it is not allowed I porns just not allowed I mean what about porn heard it is I've heard it I've heard it is a lot and I've heard it isn't it's definitely there yeah yeah it's like porn stars have porn if you go to a porn stars page you'll see porn on it a lot of it yeah like real penetration porn they don't care hmm or maybe there's there's the true speak we can see it marked by someone as saying this isn't appropriate and if enough people that follow a porn star don't think it's inappropriate it doesn't then get flagged in the system that's a good news thing I think we may have found the the Switzerland of the culture war porn yeah no one who wants to ban porn the left and the right they're like oh hold on hold on no that's okay it's okay we can ban them for their ideas yeah we just leave the porn alone yeah but the point I was

30:26making is you see an taifa at Berkeley yeah one hundred thousand dollars with the damaged long Molotov cocktails threatening people in in Portland you had a Bernie voter carrying an American flag these anti fascist the anti tried stealing the flag from him clubbed him over the head gave him a concussion put him in a hospital so when I see the ramifications of ire from the left or the right what does what conservatives do I mean the GOP couldn't even find a yearbook in the Virginia Governor race I don't think they're considered to be that big of a cultural threat they react to things they get upset about things that are unfair against them but they don't go through the streets with clubs and bricks and smash windows like an tyfa and other you know far left us to do well if they do they're considered racist it's a he's like some sort of a racist mob that

31:08was that's like the label they get put on them right yeah and then you know like that was the label that was put on the proud boys almost immediately right they're white supremacist even though there was people of color that were amongst the ranks and well they changed the definition of racist do you know what the whole origin of the proud voice is I do yeah it's kind of hilarious yeah AB gap I'm not good Anthony cou Mia told the whole story on this show because it happened with him and and Gavin McGinnis that Gavin McGinnis came up with it because of a guy that worked there and they were doing it as a goof yeah and then it became a move and then became like anybody can join then the people that joined they they took it into a radical way and then it became looking to beat up and Tifa and it's just like well Gavin's crossed the line yes that's you know there's an all points out for

31:56your you mentioned Media Matters in in a recent you know that you're talking about Alex Jones I wouldn't use them as a source for anything well that's a good point yeah but it was just clips of Alex talking that doesn't matter they there's there's a clip going around of Gavin McInnes where you can hear him saying these crazy things and you're like well he said it right but it turns out some of the clips you're talking about dogs they you know you really can't take the context out of things and these clips understand that so so what happens if I'm even afraid in my videos I don't quote people anymore because people have taken me reading a quote from a newspaper and attributed to me simply for reading someone else's quote and they say oh but he said it right I mean you look at their really really funny instance of counting Keela look at the guy with the Nazi pug that

32:40is a hilarious story and they told him context didn't matter so when he leaves the courtroom the reporter says you said this phrase which I'm not gonna say right and he says so do you if context doesn't matter well you should be arrested too yes but that's you know so so what ends up happening is these activist groups they take these quotes out of context but but admittedly I think it's fair to point out a lot of people recognize Gavin if you can assume there were jokes or not doesn't matter he said things that were overlooked over the line well Gavin's the main problem defensible problem was the call to violence right the calling calling for violence and I don't think Gavin's like he's another one who's like a prankster he's like a punk rock style prankster and he likes to burn it to the ground yep and look I'm a fan of Gavin's interviews on YouTube where he'll he

33:25hoodwinks people and is sitting down and talking to him or I don't even know if they're still up anymore but my understanding is he ruins some chicks life I'm hopeful I mean this like somewhat figuratively she was a left-wing individual he didn't know who he was he asked her to come on and her friends basically just disavowed her immediately because she was talking to him because she sounded in unintelligent oh my god I gotta tell you man yeah he cornered her I don't know if you have this issue but for the longest time it's it's it's substantially harder to interview someone on the ideological left than anyone else right so I recently reached out to a you know I regularly reach out to people I'm not gonna name dropped because I don't want to drag people but man it takes weeks trying to organize a meeting with some you know these personalities who are progressives and on the Left we yep

34:13even even people who like I I've got messages from people saying Yemen I watch yourself all the time but hold on let me let me think about it and talk to some people first and I'm not saying they're doing it because they're you know skittish or it's just harder it's a lot harder well they're probably more cautious especially if you know you're where your ideology stand is ambiguous if they're trying to figure it out oh yeah if you're if you're you know men even even David Pat David Pakman and Jimmy door could get dragged through this sometimes like I see people on Twitter calling them ultra high weirdly enough or intellectual darkweb Jimmy Dore is an interesting character I really liked that car yeah I think he's such an interesting guy he's very smart but he's aw he's like oh he's an angry lefty but you know like but he defends free speech yeah he's a hundred percent

35:01here's my thing man I was in Berkeley it was this big protest against ben shapiro and there's a guy wearing a mask with a you know communist flag full like ren gear so i got to interview him and i'm like you mind if I interview he's like yeah yeah of course and I was like really oh that's surprising and then we start talking and I said how do you feel about these people a dress in all black and you know are fighting people and causing problems oh that's terrible I was like it you you think so really it's actually I'm surprised because often when I see people wearing you know fully masked up with communist stuff they're typically in favor of the by any means netting means necessary strategies and he was like no way man that's wrong and so I'm like you know what man I don't care if you're communist I don't care if you're whatever as long as you not an authoritarian who thinks you have the

35:44right to beat other people to instill your ideology on them yeah or use manipulative force or coercion or extortion like so let me let me let me let me talk about why I think what we're seeing with Twitter might be one of the biggest problems ever Twitter YouTube Facebook these platforms are where we exist socially politically it's where our ideas are exchanged it's where we learn about who were going to vote for or why we won't vote for somebody when you ban somebody you exile them they're no longer a part of that conversation so they're very much so told you are outside city the city walls right you can't come in you can't talk to us there's nothing you can do about it but then you when you realize the rules are actually bent you know they're slanted in a certain direction you can then predict where things are going did you see the green the green New Deal

36:29Alexander Howser Critias no there's in in there so she publishes it's a non-binding resolution which means that even if it passes they can't enforce anything but my god I the fact sheet they released alongside it literally said they want to provide Economic Security for people who are unwilling to work right what unwilling okay really I swear to God yeah yeah CNBC the reported this they covered this apparently this got removed from the site the reason I bring this up is there's a chart from the Economist I frequently show this in the content I make where you can see the Conservatives are coalescing around common ideologies for a while there was some upset in the party because people didn't like Trump but now they've pretty much you know they say it's the party of Trump people agree with them Ted Cruz even stands and gives them a standing ovation at the State of the Union but

37:19the left has been spreading out and again this is from a chart put together by The Economist the Democrats are very clearly being spread from far left to center and it's kind of making it very difficult for the Democrats to you know put forth something that make sense if Alexandria or Ocasio Cortes you know she puts out the green New Deal but in the bill it talks about equity racial justice the gender pay gap things that have nothing to do with the environment and then Nancy Pelosi says it's green dreams you know and she derives this you can see that there's a new faction of the Democrats that I have you know wholly ideological drive and I think one of the reasons for this is what we see on social media right the the ideological bent of the platform's then lead to the the mass followings of specific individuals who then use specific tactics to get elected

38:05and it's you know when these platforms only allow certain ideas to form those ideas will naturally rise to the top of our political space and then you get crazy stuff like if you're unwilling to work will provide you Economic Security which you know I don't know necessarily what that means other than some people who choose not to work will get paid I guess from taxpayer money but well that seems completely insane and not only that where's that money coming from right from you this is actually another funny thing that no I mean I mean know what you mean literally yeah well andrew andrew Cuomo said god forbid if the rich leave New York because I believe 1% of New York the top 1% pay 46 percent of their of their taxes of the revenue they use and so they just had a big budget shortfall I believe it was something Trump did that caused a shortfall in there and they were asked if they would

38:54tax the rich and he was like no god forbid you know they'll leave and they're already leaving so I'm you know incoming incoming a million people saying I'm conservative for bringing that up but you know facts are facts I suppose both facts are facts and that's what's really important about this and when you suppress any any ideology if you are on the left and you suppress the right it is just going to shore up their defenses and they're just going to harden their line that's just how it goes that's how human nature is you can't tell people what to do you know can't you're right and you know a lot of people might say I'm a little alarmist when I mentioned a potential civil war but let me clarify like I don't I'm not saying because I brought this up before I'm not saying it's gonna be like you know 1800s to big battlefields but at the same time what people don't seem to realize when it

39:40comes to history is that when you read about World War two we've condensed all the highlights into a very short paragraph or series of paragraphs you don't realize the war with several years there were periods where nothing happened right I was in Egypt during the second revolution you could look down and you could see Tahrir Square people screaming laser pointers helicopters a patch and they announced in the news we have disbelieved oppose the president two blocks away a dudes eating a cheeseburger McDonald's watching a football match as if nothing's happening so when you look at these street battles the political violence when you look at the the biased bannings you look at the dude there was a guy who fired a couple rounds at a police officer in Eugene Oregon and some bombs got planted at the police department or somebody planted bombs at a statue in Houston it starts

40:23to feel like there's some kind of political violence that is bubbling up that can't be mended at this point what and a lot of this comes from this suppression that we're talking about what people don't feel like they have a voice or that voice is being suppressed by an opposing ideology you know yes but it is really complicated and it's it's I can't claim to know how everything happens but what I will say is I believe social media is responsible for the political violence I believe it's it's not just about suppression it's you look at the systems that were built to Facebook right what content can make it to the front page of your Facebook poke of your Facebook profile when you're looking at your newsfeed well Twitter Facebook has to build an algorithm to determine what matters most companies then figure out how to manipulate that algorithm to get that content in front

41:08of you because you know at most you can see what three posts on Facebook so what happens is early on companies quickly found out that anger drives the most shares of any emotion all of a sudden we see a wave of police brutality videos yeah there was one website that posted almost exclusively police brutality content and it was like Alexa 400 in the world some ridiculously high number it blew my mind I knew Pete someone claims to that they were making six figures writing police brutality articles because it was pure rage bait right you know content that just shares really easily but that content constantly being put in front of somebody breeds an ideology you then tell someone did you know that you know white supremacy is on the rise and there are 11 million white supremacists in the US and they go I can believe it but that's nonsense it's just not it's not the case

41:54you know the anti-defamation league in the SPLC say that at rough estimates are maybe like 10 or 12,000 but people really believe that there is like that the president is secretly a Nazi and that he's being propped up by the secret cabal or there's an alternative influence network on YouTube where you and me are somehow trying to convince people to you know it's ridiculous well that's the same thing yeah what was it called uh data and society right right yeah and that's that's that was that nonsense yeah we would did we get connected to are we all right adjacent are we bootlickers we're part of the it's a network that feeds into extremist ideologies and other they connected me with people well it's the so schizophrenic the way it's drawn out the little map where one person's connected to another person and what I said I think I said Barbara Walters interviewed

42:41Fidel Castro does that make her a communist you know that's I tweeted at her I'm like you're crazy this is a crazy way to look at things but what happened with that story media reported uncritically I reached out to a bunch of journalists I know I know ton of journalists I'm a member of the online news association like I've been a speaker at their events and I'm reaching out to these journalists like hey why did you guys write that that's just completely fake it's got my name like my name in the middle right you know me right you can call me to quote you yes they don't do it right they just uncritically report it and there's a couple reasons for it the media Facebook recently changed their algorithm I don't know this was a while ago they may have changed it again but it it was a huge hit to the incomes of a lot of these companies when all of a sudden news articles stopped appearing

43:24as much because Facebook wanted friends and family to be more connected and less so news organizations so these news organizations who write this viral clickbait and rage content weren't getting as much traffic so what are they have you know they have to go crazy they have to you know and so it's it's a downward spiral of where these journalists all follow each other they start producing I don't I don't think it's a conspiracy they produce this stuff I think they're hired specifically because the content they produce is viral and it's viral for a reason right and so the more they produce it the more they eat their own you know excrement essentially and then but it's a game of telephone where they're sitting in a circle constantly telling each other the craziest things and it gets crazier and crazier but another aspect of it is when they write an article saying you know

44:05Trump is racist it goes viral the next day they can't read the same article so they write Trump is the most racist the next day they have to have to keep one-upping it and and it is we talked about this with Forbes articles the term nasty surprise they use it with tech like they'll say the new Galaxy S 10 has a nasty surprise the new iPhone 10 has a nasty surprise keep saying has it's hilarious it's almost like there's a form letter and they just take whatever Xbox stick it in there nasty surprise and it's it's a hundred percent click they and it's forbs and were you telling me that Forbes that with it's essentially is like user contributions yeah yeah yeah and I I could probably submit an article they're like a network of people I don't know how you get approved but there's a lot of articles that just get written about like the new video game today so

44:52it's like a click big title yeah just get some ads has a nasty surprise but it's almost like they have like a pattern that they've just accepted what is gonna work but it's not a conspiracy it's just like minded people who are only ever around each other sharing the same things among each other believing all the same things and so you'll notice that certain words emerge specifically among certain groups you know like the left will use certain words and then if like learn to code doesn't appear that much in left-wing rhetoric but it burned the Conservatives and the anti and edit Aryan types understand what it is and so the justification for banning someone for saying learn to code regardless of the context seems insane yeah that seems they say it seems like that one in particular is almost in defense I mean not almost that's indefensible absolutely like there have been people

45:40who uh but let me let me let me be fair there are people on the Left who have been banned absolutely awesome there was a lot of Venezuelan accounts that were banned and a lot of people are very critical I saw Amy Martin was was criticizing this yeah because they accused him of being government actors because they were Pro Venezuelan government but the most the one thing there's some Occupy Wall Street activists who absolutely detest me they lie about me I do not like them for doing this they were banned abruptly for literally no reason and this is what's more worrisome to me is that no one defended them no one defended them because conservatives certainly won't but neither will the mainstream you know ideological left these are activists for class issues for international issues there on the left squarely and they were accused I guess of being BOTS or something just it was just an abrupt

46:26purge of like 50 accounts and some of them were like independent citizen journalists just wiped out and with no recourse no recourse none whatsoever so yeah I mean at some point you have to realize how important Twitter is when the it is on it could you imagine if there was a physical space where everyone was talking and the president shows up and everyone keeps yelling at him and they're all talking because you had that lawsuit where they said it was a public forum imagine that happens and then a private private individual bars you from hearing what the president has to say right it's a complicated issue very you know you get a lot of people on the Left saying private businesses can do whatever they want that blew my mind because the left was usually about not letting massive multinational billion-dollar corporations get away with suppressing speech but well that

47:11was another thing that people get pissed at me about Jack Dorsey and rightly so that he said that it's a human right that delia Medicaid online is a human but the fact that he said it but yet all these people are banned so right how like to take away someone's human right it there should be an egregious example I mean it should be something like doxxing someone like calling for violence like trying and anybody but even then but clearly that's not the case if Kathy Griffin still online but hold on you can kill a human being and get 25 years right good point so you can literally strip someone of their of their yes everything and still not be purged permanently this was one of the things that Jack and I discussed post podcast I said you know when we were going back and forth about doing this again you know I told him I would really like to see if there's some sort of a

48:04path to redemption like you know for example for Milo I mean like we talked about yesterday about Christian peak aleni who was a white supremacist who realized the error of his ways and then became this activist against racism and now he gives these TED speeches and yes you know what accepted by everyone as being this guy who's achieved redemption and really understands the error of his ways with Milo's banned for life Milo is only like 34 years old right how old is Milo around there I don't know I I hope I didn't make him older than he is it probably mad but whatever it is like who's to say that Milo you know in three years from now won't have a change of heart or you know have a acid trip or something make some a different person but if you're bad for life we are we throwing people away like you ever see that tweet from I I'm gonna say I think it was Tyler the Creator where

49:00he said how is cyberbullying real just you know like close your right side go outside close your eyes that's you know I'm sorry man you if you want a ban hate speech I can understand I am no fan of hate speech I think it's wrong I think you shouldn't you know target people for specific characteristics we should respect one another at the same time I'm also a human adult who understands sometimes people are mean you ever walked that you ever go to it you know a subway in Los Angeles and some guy starts calling you all the names in the book what you gonna do about it nothing that's just life people are mean sometimes have they punch you that crossed the line right but on Twitter you know my loved ones say mean things block mute you know I do i press yes yeah mute you don't even block people I block some people yeah the my loved one was very very weird they were

49:42looking for a reit and here's the other part of it you know what he ultimately got in trouble air quotes for was him talking about the positive experiences that he had as a young man being molested I think that was after he was already banned though I don't think so well he might even ban Twitter already yeah then he got kicked off of YouTube and he left I don't think you say deaf YouTube he's I think he's still on YouTube was it was it Breitbart the deal I got fired he quit Breitbart quit Bart there's another thing too though you know I see all these journalists writing all these articles saying like Milo was gone Milo was whining and he's no more I'm like dude's got like six million followers across his Instagram is YouTube in his facebook he posts all the time you know the jerk he's not in the public conversation as much as he was before because they were censored them

50:29when you're not on Twitter right the journalists who make up a huge core of their verified users who apparently according to CNN Otto Carl are the lifeblood their platform I'm talking about you but here's my point he's not saying that men should go have sex with younger boys he was basically saying that it could be a positive experience cuz it was for him well I don't know anything about what happened in that capacity and my my point was if I said when I was 13 a 21 year old girl fondled me do you think I get in trouble if I said it was awesome no not better wouldn't you wouldn't yeah yeah that's right my brother was pointing out cuz uh law and order SVU is basically on 24/7 like 98% of the episodes are only ever about women never about men being victims sometimes they are but he was like oh I just realized that and I was like let's society well that's a Special Victims Unit

51:20that's that show like they have so many versions of Law & Order but that one in particular oh no but I mean it deals with sex crimes yes and almost every episode it really ever talks about male victims right which exists right you know I mean and so III don't want to get like into a men's rights thing but no I think it's yes you know fairly obvious to a lot of people like you mentioned yeah if you said it nobody would care it but Milo's gay right and so that becomes you know it becomes a thing for him yes yeah yeah I'd it's some what there's we need some kind of clear guidelines right where you can operate inside these guidelines and all's fair it's just I mean to annex to an extent it is tough comedians will be allowed to operate dancing on the line you know what I mean like Joe obviously I think so right right I'll tell you so I can't tell you this I'll tell you

52:11something after this is over that's gonna you're gonna take it to lares and we'll find out about it in the future oh and everyone's gonna be a secret no no it's not a secret it's a comedy secret it's it's about something but you know but I'll take this is how you to remind me but I'll take this opportunity to segue into another point when it comes to the bias right uh-huh how is it that you can have Jimmy Kimmel Jimmy Fallon dress in blackface on there when I CNN made a big list I don't know exactly when it happened I think Kimmel was on the man show he dressed like a basketball player Oh Jews and Jimmy Fallon just like Chris Rock oh Jesus Sarah Silverman did it she I think she addressed it though yes everybody nobody loses their minds nobody loses their minds over that because they're on the left you think I don't know I don't know it's it's I honestly I would say to an

52:57extent there's probably some kind of tribal bias well I think when you're going back to high school yearbooks looking for outrage from 55 year old people you've lost the plot you've lost a crazy it's inside well what's what's crazier is when Kathy Griffin tweets out that the 3-pointer hand sign at a Covington basketball game was a Nazi hand gesture like the 3-pointer you know the three-point line is this thing yep yeah Oh see I'm not gonna do it because the photos just lie okay that's what a series of them on my Instagram when I found out about I put Bill Cosby doing it i someone found one of me from Newsradio isn't it aren't they using it though for that symbol I know that it's a it's a universal symbol that means a lot of things yes thank you I using it as that symbol yeah they're not using it to mean white power another not all right whatever it's not okay

53:42well we don't know were those cops using it for fence that's the that's the the what is it called it's called the okay game and don't look game where you put the the symbol under your waist and if someone looks at you get to punch him what there's a game kids play no no no no these the SWAT cops that had it on their on their legs no they were all doing it there was like four of them doing it in a photograph and they what they're holding it up or they holding it on their legs I don't know let's break this down I can explain this to you okay please do Donald Trump when he talks he makes the okay hand sign well he's pointing he's making I mean okay if he does it this way is that okay oh no he does this no I don't care what Trump Devils I mean first people off that's probably a bad thing but so what happens is he starts doing the okay okay okay sign so a bunch of Trump supporters

54:29start doing it to to be like hey I'm like Trump right right a 4chan campaign get started saying convince everyone this actually means white power right it was fake the anti-defamation league said it was fake yes a bunch of journalists said it was real that's what I put on my Instagram yeah put all this on my Instagram including the article where it showed the original thing came right 4chan 4chan is hilarious powerful its whole it's hilarious how much they start they started the Flat Earth movement okay there's the guy oh is that you I don't I never heard that oh yeah yeah yeah they started let's look at photo and see if I can give you a it's got a little key popped up to conspiracy how do we get it back it's that what's going on the connection to the teepees just have no idea no Halloween spirit see the button I have is making it go there and it's not going there so I

55:15don't know Jesus Jaime these gremlins in this it I would I figured it's hard allegedly I would say this we need to see that though 90 yeah show me in laptop I would I would be willing to okay there's the image take a good look at it Tim so okay these guys they saw what's on their leg yes that's specifically a game where when you look at it they get to punch you what they're not holding the hand sign up they're not flashing it like you see what conservatives do right I'm not denying that is a game but to say that that's what those guys are doing is a bit of a stretch I believe well what do you think they're doing what is it to say that if if fortune did that to make to mix it up at some point people would think that that is true though doing that that's like you no way no way that's happened look I'll say this is it is it well there's my bleeding free

56:05bleeding came for a fortune right if you don't know who beat least explain that as people you it's all you okay free bleeding was 4chan thought it would be hilarious by the way Shia LeBouf was at the Comedy Store last night I wonder why uh because we're always ragging on him free bleeding came from 4chan where they said that they were they were promoting this idea that for women's rights that they would you know get away their Mo's get away from this whole idea of you have to control your menstrual cycle you know it's empowering to just bleed all over your crotch and so women actually started doing it because it actually the if you can if you can get those ideas out there a certain number of knuckleheads are gonna take it right with it and think it's real of course so you don't think that's possible to white power though I think it's extremely unlikely I think it's possible

56:56so here's think nothing's absolute right are there some some white supremacists who are doing it for sure but you don't you think you're looking at badasses with guns they're playing this little silly game yeah really I think they're a bunch of bros who are you know you ever you ever hang off like some frat dudes at a college they punch each other that's that there's a game so how does it go again you you make the okay hand sign okay and you hold it to your table or on your leg these are adults these are guys they're not in college they're definitely not a below 25 years old but where's that mean I know I know forty year old guys who play you know Pokemon I know going I go this is a game we fix this thing okay but what they do it whatever what is their job what were they their SWAT team guys something they were arresting a drug dealer and what do you think they're

57:41doing they're trying to make sure everybody knows that they're they're flashing an overt white power hand gesture because everyone knows that's what it means that somebody thank everyone knew well no that's just not it's just not case the thing that the point is holding the okay sign up next to you is what's key you know people say it's the W and the P putting it on your leg has all the ways been the the punch him game or whatever like I don't I know that punch or me yeah yeah I know that punch them game 100% the okay symbol on your leg or under a table and you say hey look and if they look down and see it they go ah then you punch him in the arm yep I know it's so well that I that's why I don't think that's what they're doing like me and my friends so what are they so then from the question is it's a major look it's made you look made you look right so but what are they doing right

58:23look look listen man if you want to if you want to make assumptions about what you think their intentions were it's all you I don't have any facts to support that and the only thing I know of is there as a game where you put the okay sign on your leg and then you punch somebody and here are some guys put me okay sign on their leg what evidence do we have it's anything other than that nothing so that's I'm not gonna go any further than that I'm gonna say was it poor judgment oh hell yeah mmm maybe but listen do you know about what happened in Philly with these Marines who got beat up by an tyfa no I do not so there's some so there was a rally put on by some constitutional libertarians I don't know exactly what was all about anti-fur shows up in protests some Marines apparently are just walking by because there was a marine event an tyfa sees them and yells

59:04are you proud they said he says I'm a Marine he said are you a proud boy and he said you know I don't know they beat him up these are they arrested several people charged with multiple felonies Marines got beat up they didn't know what proud boy was so to assume that these guys know anything about what's going on in in cultural politics it's it's you know when you're in the know and you're on Twitter when you're reading the news all day you look at that and say they knew what they were doing what these are small like what city of these guys from even do they watch the news all day do they go on 4chan do they go on voxcom and read and know what this is about okay I appreciate you're looking at this with a broad perspective but it is entirely possible that they did sure it's also entirely possible that within their friend group it means you're buying lunch it could mean a million things it

59:49could mean right in the cultural context of 2018 when this happened yep that the okay symbol doesn't even mean white power it is is it is it is a rival sign among anti ident anti intersectional x' and Trump supporters but don't you remember when was there there was a woman that got in trouble for she was in court and she had it on her arm she was just standing there like so insane so insane because she was basically she had her finger and her thumb like that yeah you can make that and they and they were smiles with it yeah she's making so many powers you have to understand when I see that and I see that you coming out but there's a difference between someone just moving their hands around and doing this and you know making a weird thing she did she did fall on do it the next day though probably on purpose maybe yeah okay you have to assume she's watching

60:39the news then yeah well I would she's sitting at the Kavanagh hearing but it's entirely possible though albeit unlikely that she was just telling somebody okay like or listen she was she's used to doing that with her arm there's an even think about it there's you're allowed to make assumptions right yeah and operate off assumptions but eventually you start getting off so crazy and you know how many assumptions are gonna believe until you're believe in the moon landing was faked let me ask you this though don't you think that some people do that and they do it because they're making the symbol for white power some is in what 10 15 20 I don't know I think I don't know about a nothing like I said listen nothing's absolute I'd be I'm pretty sure they're probably some white supremacists who do that yeah but here's the thing most of these people who are on 4chan who would

61:24even use the emoji who would do in public they're not doing it to signal white power they're doing it a signal opposition to the tribal left when they take photos and you see someone like Cassandra Fairbanks who is a trump supporting you know writer she has she's she's notable because she stood at the podium made the okay hand sign and then this writer from splinter news which used to be called fusion I worked there full disclosure claimed it was a white power hand gesture and she she got a Cassandra suit over it she ultimately lost cuz it's like you know free speech slander is hard to sue for but she did it because it was a Trump sign not because it's white power so the people who or even white supremacists aren't signifying white power they're signaling to other Trump supporters too right it doesn't mean white power right so just because someone on the Left says it

62:12means white power that does not mean it means Y power within their group is that what you're saying yeah just like we all just decide that this means something else like my friend needs a peace among peace among nations I'm a piece of Hmong world's my friend Steve Rinella would talked about this in the podcast he got beat up once by his friend where he grew up in Michigan and in Michigan as almost like for fun like like if I said hey like if I called you hey like as friends yeah you would laugh and like what's up dude you know it'd be cool so he would write give the bird and they would call it the Michigan hello yep and so the Michigan wave or something like that so as he's driving by saw I was friend he went like that like if I saw you do that I'll be like I what's up to him there was uh but you don't some but his friend didn't know this so his friend he grabbed him threw the to the

62:58ground he was you want to fight like what are you talking about like what's going on he's like you gave me the bird he's like oh Jesus bro I'm from Michigan yeah like that's we're having fun that's just I'm your friend and yet he was over the guys house helping them build a greenhouse or something like he was doing some work with the guy I I still threw him to the ground because he thought that this was oh you got it fixed no there's naturally there's gonna be a ton of people you know saying oh tombs bootleggers all that stuff like premises listen man like I'm not I do not I'm not a big fan of conspiracy theories I'm not a big fan of making assumptions about the intentions of other people if you can prove it I'm willing to hear it but people in this country are innocent till proven guilty what do we have we have a photo of some cops doing something dumb

63:40right do I think it was ill-advised it was wrong as you know of course absolutely should have done it do I think it means that white supremacists know they're cops yeah look I am no fan of police I you know I I grew up as like a left far-left and her kist skateboarder the cops screw with me all the time I've had cops kick my door and guns drawn I was in Chicago and cops pulled me over me and my buddies this is all on video at gunpoint screaming at us it was the craziest experience I've ever had I am no fan but if you don't have evidence I'm not just gonna this is a thing about how these biases function you get people who will see all these videos live these experiences and they'll immediately assume the worst about these guys I don't know anything about these guys I know they did something dumb but I don't know why so I can't really go beyond that other than I believe their official

64:25statement was they're playing the game but I could be wrong to make assumptions about their character or what they believe simply because they made an okay sign on their leg it's like you can't convict somebody in a court you know what I mean and I'm a big fan of the presumption of innocence and Blackstone's formulation and how we side on we err on the side of protecting the innocent I think you got a good point in also in the fact that this is a extremely recent hand gesture that's being associated with white supremacy and clearly came from pranksters and you have to assume these guys are on 4chan or read these these websites like come on man these dudes they probably got to work all day they talk about football they go home they sit in their lounge chair and have enough a beer and a slice of pizza or whatever it is they do I don't think these guys people man you know people

65:10don't know how to separate their own personal bubble from reality they assume if I know what you must know it right is actually something Shane Smith told me he said he doesn't understand why is it that if he can do it you can't right and that's like an interesting point that people don't seem to realize mean brother like he said to me I can speak French why can't you like people live in this mindset right where they assume if I know it everyone knows it right so so they're gonna be like no every I I saw an article about that everyone must know what it is it's like no no no dude there are some people who don't watch TV there are some people play video games all day there are some people who don't do any of that for all you know these guys they every day after work they go to a Children's Shelter and and and provide soup and they don't watch the news at

65:53all like I'm not I don't believe that they actually do I'm just saying you have no idea what's going on in their lives you're making assumptions about what they know who they are and I think you know I I'm a firm believer that we have problems of racism in this country I believe institutional systemic racism real problems need to be solved all that stuff that still doesn't mean you get to just label someone and make assumptions about what they believe who they are because of one thing you know if you've made a if you made a joke what if what if they did it because they were ironically doing it right if you made a joke ten years ago meigan assume you actually believed it maybe said something silly you know we had this newscaster in New York who who accidentally said Martin Luther yeah you know and I and again you know another one absolutely and you also and another

66:38thing happened that no one cared about was a guy on CNN a racial slur for Jewish people in the same way no one cared about that one you know so there was a CNN anchor What did he say I don't want to say it okay but he would he was his k-word right yeah I think he'd still say it as long as we're not calling it was the same thing he quickly fit corrected himself right and that didn't come up as an issue but the point is this dude you know why why is he being fired right even people came to his defense are you gonna assume nasty things about them like are we really getting to the point where we're gonna look at a photo we don't know the context we don't know these people are what into their names and we're gonna be alike right a mistake well there's another issue too this is this is how you're doing it oh Jesus that's so crazy I didn't even I meant to do this but

67:23there is another issue that people do accidentally like because they're worried about saying something they will say something right I had a friend and he was a warm-up guy for television show do you know how warm-up works like there's a like save a sitcoms being filmed there's a guy who like keep the crowd laughing yeah he walks around keep the crowd and he had a he had an anxiety attack well he had a panic attack and the panic attack was this he was doing The Cosby Show and he was for whatever reason it got into his head don't say the N word don't say it don't say it and he started sweating and he said he started stammering and he literally couldn't talk he had some anxiety issues and and he locked up and literally couldn't could barely he did say it did he no he didn't say it because got terrified that he was going to say that's weird but that could be what's

68:16going on with by someone saying Martin Luther like especially this guy obviously with context right obviously the second guy heard the first guy do it and it was it's a Freudian slip it's in his mind and don't say it would everyone do don't say that I'll I'll turn on a funny funny little secret though ice I did it in one of my videos you said that and then I started laughing it was about it it was about it it was about a guy it was about the story and so you said it and I said it laughed and I just like I did it I added my videos you know I don't do I don't do live shots you know I do I do live sometimes but I was just like I was I started laughing I just literally just started things and I'm like I can't believe it dude because the story was about him saying it I purposefully don't say these words on YouTube because I don't wanna get the banhammer sure so I'm like this

69:03guy accidentally said Martin Luther and then he used this slur or and then later when I was reading it I said it and I started laughing I'm just like but III understand what you know some it's it's not even about saying the slur it's about when you have two words in your head and you accidentally put them together yes you know that's what happened to CNN guy well sometimes I call someone the wrong name and don't realize I've done it right like Jamie said you said jack oh I thought I said Jon like we've had that conversation before I literally in my head think I'm saying the right thing but I'm not I did you know I made a huge huge mistake on one of my videos I deleted the video because of it because instead of saying Harvey Weinstein I said Brett Oh No and Brett's awesome Brett such a cool dude I'm a big fan and I published the video and someone messaged me and they were like just want

69:47to let you know you made this big mistake and I said some pretty awful things and I felt so bad I think I've done similar I was like dude I was like that guy is so cool like I'm a big fan of his work of it yeah I just was like I tried editing it and I'm like I'm deleting it hands down I would I would rather just remove the video outright than to say a disparaging word against that man yeah and I was an accident I didn't even know I said it yeah I think I did the exact same thing I did the exact same thing I believe onstage once because I had a bit about Harvey Weinstein he said I think I said Bret haha yeah I think I said it on unfortunate yeah cuz they're polar opposites yeah that's fantastic no he's but you actually Weinstein right so that will help ya say Stine instead of Steen port for Harvey yes/no for Brett for Eric yeah and Stine Weinstein yeah Harvey Weinstein Bret Weinstein I

70:36could I didn't even know I did it spelled thus IIIi edited the video I had I did a light edit I published it mm-hmm and then I start getting messages from people and I was like no and then I watched well yeah it's a problem you know like when you're thinking and talking at the same time there's a bunch of words bouncing around in your head and you're just trying to and you think you're saying the right thing well you know it's that's why intent is so critical George : yeah and magic words are so dangerous you know and that is what I'm going to tell you about later all right I'm yeah you know about a scientific comedian that we know and love well George Carlin was absolutely amazing well he what he would not only was he absolutely amazing but people don't have to you you almost have to have lived during the time where he was getting arrested like not like Lenny

71:26Bruce before him but to understand how significant he was when he was doing that seven dirty words you can't say on television like back then people like what the is this guy doing you know it was it was groundbreaking when he did I think was in what naik 92 he did that bit well he probably did a lot where he basically ran off 50 racial slurs and then actually called Eddie Murphy and Richard Pryor the n-word you member that's yes and everyone laughed yeah everyone left because they understood his intent they understood that he didn't actually disrespect them they understood that he didn't mean anything bad about it he was making a point about the the racist behind the words yes and it's funny to me this is the thing man I when I was younger I was I was far left man skin-tight black you know sure it's the virus you know virus punk rock bands anti-flag

72:18things like that I was trying to think of it's been so long I try to think of some of the band shirts we used to have and man we were we were angry and and pissed off all the time I grew up like that and then over time I learned I I went through a ton of really important life lessons one of the first and most important was I was a young skateboarder in Chicago really looked up to some of these these older guys who were really good I went to Catholic school when I was younger ended up becoming this punk rocker guitar playing far-left skin-tight you know skateboarding angry yeah and no no flags you know the government and then I go to this dude's house was just really great skate boys got a picture of Jesus on the wall and I immediately scoff like I'm you know high mighty I was like like would you like a Christian or something and he goes no and I was like then why have a picture of Jesus

73:01and he goes oh I just thought like a story about a dude travel around helping people was kind of cool and I went oh that's a good point Wow I wasn't I was like I was like wow maybe I don't really understand maybe maybe this means something different other people than Sherman's to me well if Jesus was an Indian man that you know had wooden beads and you know and and was a Hindu god we would love him you know be like Shiva or Vishnu we would we would think he's the most amazing thing ever it's the fact that if you look at what Jesus preached and what he was all about I mean seems pretty Rai thinks about as spiritual and and loving and it's it's about I mean his whole ideology that the Jesus of the Bible yeah and he was essentially about loving your brother and treating people as if they're you and but this this for me like I bring this up because it was

73:54kind of a formative moment where all of a sudden I realized was my ideology predicated on assumptions yes was I was i holding these views because other people told me to hold them right did I actually understand that there was some positive things on the other side and then I slowly moved over to more of a center-left position yeah and you know now what the reason I bring this up is I looked I watched that video I tweeted this the video of George Carlin cuz man George Carlin was a I used to watch his videos my mom would put him on and my mom's been a hippie liberal far-left all that stuff and you'd probably consider a conservative by today's you know measures the way things have been going now they look at you know Kevin Hart he said a bad joke ten years ago get him out like could you imagine I god forbid what would happen with George Carlin's routines today they wouldn't they would

74:40be running all of his old routines saying no you have to ban him from the show he literally called these people the n-word why was it that George calling to go onstage and talk about how Republicans were dumb and how religion is crazy he was clearly on the left his whole life and he said these things that by today's standards would be considered conservative right and so for me it's a weird thing to go from being on the far left as a young person it was around like 19 or 20 I started to become more moderate and then to see them today being extremely offended like people used to be in the 50s and 60s like that's regressive yeah that's trying to bring things back to the way they used to be with offensive you know nothing like Puritanism and all these things and now I feel like I guess the cliche is the modern the modern left whatever people call it like the you

75:25know capital L tribal left seems to be being indoctrinated not by left-wing policy ideas it's not about necessarily so it's about identitarian ism it's about policy based on your immutable characteristics and how you know like going back to the green new deal like in the bill it talks about racial equity what does have to do the environment but what does that mean well equality would be like uu equal opportunity to people are allowed to try and if one succeeds congratulations equity would be well let's determine whether or not you are advantaged or privileged and then hold you back or push you forward based on these these certain metrics I suppose it's it's the problem I have with it is that it's not quantifiable so this was actually something that was really shocking to me I was sitting with my niece and my sister my niece and my mom and I showed this image that people like to share

76:17it's three people standing up by a baseball offense and you there's a baseball game there's a really short person who can't see there's a medium sized person who can see a little bit and a very tall person who just stands right up above the fence it says this is equality each of them gets one crate well one crate isn't enough for the short guy and the two guys can already see I says this is equity and it shows the short guy getting you know three crates so they can all see now and I said the problem is when it comes to someone's height sure we can understand let's let's let's give the the crates to the short guy so he can see along with us but how do you determine equity based on the color of someone's skin or their you know like characteristics that can't necessarily be quantified right so when alexander el castillo cortez pushes a bill for that's purporting to be about

77:01the environment but includes racial equity clauses are we to assume that her ideology states that if you are not white you are poor by death like it's a guarantee or do we have to assume that each individual has different advantages different cards to play and some are born wealthy some aren't and yes there's historic racism but we can't make those assumptions right right so this is this is to me one of the biggest problems I've been having as like a lifelong left-leaning individuals who do I vote for right I was a big fan of Bernie Sanders for a while but then Bernie Sanders gets up on stage the debates and says white people don't know what it's like to be poor well that's hilarious that's go to West Virginia and visit the coal miners right and you know what's really weird I saw one of the Bernie's tweets that I looked at and I said oh come on man you no this is up yeah he was talking

77:48about how much more money white men make than black women than Latino men and all these different things and what he didn't include was Asian men well because Asian men make more money but here's what I think a lot of people on the right miss he said Pay Equity not pay equality okay I think perhaps we should stop assuming they don't know what they're saying because a lot of people assume what they're saying is you know the gender Cape the gender earnings gap is is real but the gender pay gap it can you know it's not that if a man and a woman are both offered the exact same job exact same experience and education women tend to get I think it's like three to five percent less and many people believe that's because they're less likely to negotiate just why you have like lean and tell them to be more you know trying to be more assertive but it's not this

78:3877 percent number that's but there is an earnings gap right the median salaries of men and women are different so when Bernie says white men make axe more than these other demographics he said in his tweet pay equity not equality he doesn't want Fair Pay for everyone based on job he's actually saying it doesn't matter what job you have everyone should be paid the same you know that's nonsense but then you see what Cortese releases on our website if you're unwilling to work they'll provide Economic Security actually mine I believe they took it off the site right but I think when they include it in the bill that they want equity not equality when they include on their website if you're unwilling they'll pay you and when Bernie says equity as well I think they're not talking about equality like I don't think you know the average American understands what

79:22they're actually saying is you should be paid a flat rate period and when you're talking about the pay gap being different from men and women we should clarify that what you're saying essentially is that men choose different jobs and they work more hours and that's the reason why they make that much more money worth 77 cents on the dollar yeah there was a another study came out recently that said that hours worked was almost the 100% of the reason why men and women earn different at a median median salary in some areas women actually earned more than men and there's I think Seven Cities I think this is unpure again you fact check me if you get you know everybody thinks I'm wrong or whatever but I believe it was seven City we're women out earn men buy like seriously high numbers like up to 20% so there's a lot of issues when it comes to the pay gap and equality but without

80:09going on a tangent in that area I think what ends up happening is you know I saw Bernie's tweet and I responded to it by saying good news Bernie pay equality is enshrined in law and I sent it I cited three examples of where it's illegal to discriminate based on gender and then someone points out to me Tim he didn't say equality he said equity that would imply doesn't matter what job you have and a petroleum engineer should earn the same as a store clerk at H&M that's equity that just because you have an advantage because of your education doesn't mean you should earn more than somebody else you seen I'm saying so the fact that there's people that actually believe that that don't believe that what first of all that's gonna absolutely discourage people from trying to succeed why would you if you could get the same amount as a CEO of Exxon as you can working at 21

80:56forever forever 21 or whatever Abercrombie & Fitch why would you why would you try hard why would you exceed why would you succeed why would you Excel I think it's fair to point out some people would you know I'd okay what if there's no if there's no real I mean other than social status if there's no renewal but a positive consequences I think social status might be one of the prime driving factors of most people at home no man not enough not enough to really encourage innovation look and progress III can agree with that for sure but I also think there's a there was a saying that I was told a lot that people don't get rich because they want money they get rich because they're passionate about something and the money comes after you know they always say that the money comes after something like that and I'd point out every every day I take no days off it's been a

81:43couple years with me not taking any days off I work literally every day full-time right now I'm producing six YouTube videos every day only one of them is a real seven days a week seven days a week non-stop two years straight you're doing yourself I like it it's fun that's a thing I'm not I'm not doing you're enjoying this allied internal I'd do it because you know I see things on so for the most part on my main youtube channel I do one video every day at 4:00 p.m. which tends to be just like a news analysis piece but I'm not perfect sometimes I you know get all hyperbolic and stuff my second channel is me just ranting and you know not really swearing but still just like heavy opinion stuff mm-hmm I do it biggest fun you know I see something I want to explore it I used to travel all the time you know I worked advice I was in all these different countries and all these

82:25dangerous places not because I wanted to have a name for myself not because I want to make money I wanted to watch a revolution I want to know why it was happening and I want to talk to the people who are experiencing it so I can I can I can relate to people who say money isn't a motivator for sure but I've also talked to people in Scandinavia who have told me they sort of give up at a certain point because I can remember which country it was it may have been Sweden or or Norway but these two women told me that after like seventy seven thousand dollars per year they tax like 80 percent of your income so people just stop they literally just know that's another proposition right this is something else that's been discussed in terms of anyone who makes more than X amount per year taxing them over seventy percent so I I agree with the progressive tax wholeheartedly I

83:09disagree with a number that high what do you think it should be I don't I don't know but I will say we need more progressive brackets we need to keep going and you know I got to say maybe maybe at ten million dollars seventy percent doesn't make sense but I kind of lean towards not really because it seems like man that's a lot of money that's a lot that's that's that's more that's that's a ridiculous amount you know I think Steve Bannon said something like a five in front of it or something but I don't know I'm not an economist but I do believe a progressive tax makes the most sense and I can explain it to you if you want to hear it sure so there was a study I believe I was from Harvard you need seventy seven thousand dollars per year this may have been ten years ago in order to be middle-class median in the United States that means if you make seventy seven thousand you'll have

83:54vacation you'll have insurance you'll have a car you can raise a family you can send them to school all that stuff but you have nothing left over for savings you have nothing left over for investments if you make a hundred thousand dollars a year you're gonna have twenty three thousand dollars left over for investing eventually at a certain point if you only need seventy seven thousand dollars if you're making ten million you've got nine you know million nine hundred nine thousand that you can invest and you'd be independently wealthy and be rich forever now I have no problem with being wealthy I have no I have no problem with other people being wealthy and living off of their investments and all that but there is a point where you have to realize the the coalescing of pow the monopolizing of power is a really dangerous thing for any society too few individuals holding too much power can

84:33destabilize an economy can to stabilize a country the problem with communism you snap your fingers and you put a centralized Authority in place at least that's how it's been every single time and then they hold all the cards and they can oppress whoever they want the problem with laissez-faire capitalism is over time which is why it's better in a lot of ways over time it eventually becomes a centralized oligopoly of a few corporations controlling everything which were kind of seeing now so all the progressive tax can really do is slow that process down which i think is a good thing but ultimately I think just looking at the system eventually you end up kind of where we are where six media companies control everything and then you know some companies are the biggest funders of certain politicians and corporations they serve too much power I mean there's a III remember reading us a

85:19report or a story about how wealthy people have like three or four times more ability to influence a politician than like the majority of the people in the country simply because paying for expensive dinners and lobbying earns you favors you know super PACs paying you know guaranteeing funding for a politician earns your favors so it's you know look if a million people tell me they want you know X but the people who are paying me like funding my campaign are paying me more well Who am I gonna provide favors to and then once I'm done with my campaign run I can go to a job at their company yeah these are problems so without going on too big of a rant I think ultimately a progressive tax can help slow the process down of special interests acquiring too much power eventually it happens anyway but with a flat tax you're basically saying at a certain point you can just keep dumping

86:07more and more money into different investments making more and more money and increasing your power exponentially and other people can't catch up to you and then power becomes too quick right yeah I think in this country we try to look at success and achievement is something that everyone striving for and we don't want to put any restrictions on that yeah we look at capitalism is the reason why everything's going so great over here this is America land of the free home of the brave go out there and kick ass we're not going to saddle you down with debt but it makes sense that after a while as we're seeing today but I don't mean what is what's the best way to do it in socialism is not gonna work what what does work I think a mixed economy makes it kind of where we are right now right a portion of income is paid in taxes for enough iment programs for the rather the for defense and

86:55things like that I just think we have a big problem with corruption I think we've got bloat I think we've got government agencies that instead of reforming and breaking them down we just slap more band-aids on top yeah we got a festering wound we're putting bandages over bandages you know it's like a certain point you got to redo it we also have systems that are in place that I mean in terms of like the way communities have always existed in certain communities there's just poverty and crime and no one does anything to fix it right and it seems to be that we're more than willing to go to other countries a nation build we're volunteered more than willing to pump money into different countries especially if they have natural resources but in our own country we're not I mean the greatest resources of course human beings and the best way to make America great or stronger would be

87:43to have less losers well what's the best way to have less losers to have more people succeed what's the best way to have more people succeed give them more opportunity and chance to not be stuck in a quagmire not be trapped in a ghetto this is yeah so I believe we should allocate access from other areas to improve the certain areas in that sense I believe in socialism to a certain extent like that's leaving it with with fire departments I believe in it with the police department I believe we should spend money that comes out of you know the public pool to fix things right I look at New York there are some neighborhoods that are really bad some neighborhoods that are really good well if we take excess from the really great neighborhoods and use that to fix roads pay for schools and poor neighborhoods crime is one of the biggest correlations for crime is poverty yes so if we can

88:28get better schools we need to reform the school system straight up if we can get better hospitals if we can fix the roads then we're doing a lot to reduce crime and reduce poverty and a rising tide lifts all ships yes so that's why you know I that's why I like Bernie Sanders although I will I say I make sure I tell people like he is a little too left for me he is but when we when we were looking at who we had in 2016 I was like yeah Bernie's my guy you know I like some parts of them I like Timm culturally I like that right you know for the same reason in some ways that I like to Obama culturally I mean I don't like the drone attacks I don't like the attacks on whistleblowers there's a lot of aspects of it that I found very disturbing and distasteful and against the narrative of what we think of who he is we think of him as this extremely articulate very well-read

89:14educated guy and you know good a good figurehead in terms of like who the president is right right but and he was drone bombing yeah foreign countries his administration was claiming that military aged men who were enemy combatants you know so one of the one of the military aged men period right right and so it's like a dude carrying water pails gets blown up and they're like he's a combatant you know Rosie and so you know when it comes to Trump what did he do missile strike in Syria weapons deal with Saudi Arabia commando raids in Yemen a little girl got killed and I've been for the most part very very critical of him and any other administration who engages in regime change Foreign Wars and look I gotta say you know when it comes to domestic issues I'm not that's not my wheelhouse when it comes to foreign policy stuff only a little bit like I've been to some

90:01countries I've experienced stuff but really you know on the ground culture roll between you know people is more my thing but I know more about foreign policy than domestic and when I see Trump's foreign policy I was very critical of it but I will point out withdrawing from Syria I'm a fan I understand a lot more than probably the average person does some of the issues surrounding Syria Russia the Qatar Turkey pipeline and things but typically I think it's usually a bad idea when the US involves itself's informed foreign interests and tries engaging and these regime change change strategies to build allies but one of the things that really blew my mind is I saw a survey at least it was going around the in on social media so who knows if it's true that claims the Democrats have a favorable opinion of George W Bush you know something something that affects and

90:45they're there in retrospect like yeah like today they pulled them they're like oh he was good and there's a video of him like giving a piece of candy to Michelle Obama and everyone was like I was going viral and people are laughing about I'm like are you not say hold hands that's crazy that guy's awful like that guy but what happened and and then when Trump announces he's gonna pull troops out of Syria everybody opposes it like the media saying it's wrong and you've got a lot of like mainstream people on the Left saying it's wrong and I'm like it is what do you mean like that's crazy to me like you know all of my activist friends we've never been in favor of that stuff we've always opposed that's always been the left's position and now I'm seeing people who claim to be on the left support multinational businesses as private businesses doing whatever they want meaning like social

91:26media yeah like like dude you know Saudi Arabia Prince is one of the biggest investors in Twitter Briony yeah yeah and so it's like there have been a series of people who have gotten letters that they've violated Pakistani law I mean they say send screenshots you know screen house can be faked but there have been a couple people who have been like for some reason Twitter decided to inform me of this and then it's it's it's a multinational let's let's talk about the the Al Gore algorithmic apocalypse let's let's segue into that you've got a platform where our public discourse is happening where the left has repeatedly said that Russians used it to manipulate our elections where one of its biggest investors is a Saudi prince or something to that effect and they are banning people of a certain who oppose a certain ideological bent like that sounds like a

92:12democratic crisis right if if this is where the public sphere is if you you know you said Milos no longer in the conversation you know he's banned from Twitter even was got millions of followers right they don't talk about him anymore soft Twitter Twitter really is important the president is there so if you start removing people you've got foreign interests who have a stake in what Twitter is doing yeah they can seriously influence our elections yeah and and they they are but all but I'll move into what most really crazy New York Times reported there's a group that false flagged the Republicans in Alabama with fake Twitter accounts they made to convince the media Russians were propping up the campaign of Roy Moore so basically this according their times is all fact this is they've seen the documents they've reported it that Democratic operatives smeared engage in

93:02a false flag campaign to make it appear like the Russians were popping up Republicans and the national media in the u.s. ran with it how that's not a crime is beyond me that's interfering in elections and we know it and this group is still being cited they're smearing Tulsi Gabbard right yeah an NBC News article came out saying that Russians are you know if taken notice of our campaign are promoting it same group still running the story do you know how that's not a crime is a mind belonging me but the New York Times reported it so it's at this point it's like I mean that's I think we have to be aware that there's so much manipulation going on right now from almost every angle oh yeah some I mean and what's hilarious is that people look at what's going on with Russian troll factories and you know the way they're trying to influence our elections that it's particularly

93:52egregious yeah where we do that Oh totally plus and I'm pretty sure we learned about the u.s. doing it well before we learned Russia was doing it and I'd be willing to bet the u.s. started it it's just the whole thing is so you can't pay attention to all of it that's part of the problem yeah I mean maybe you can and if this is what you're doing seven days a week and and even you are will probably struggle to keep up but like me I can't and it's one of the reasons why I brought you in here when you you and I have that conversation when the first things I realized right away I okay I could have you coach me like we talked about this yeah but I'm not going to I'm like I'm not going to get at all I'm gonna have to like study it for a long time and I don't have the resources to do that this is part of the problem that I had with that one podcast with Jack I just don't have the

94:38resources and they yes so I think it'd be fair to point out you know like YouTube criticism too because in talking about censorship I think a lot of people immediately assume that come on here and start waving my arms and they're screaming they're biased against conservatives which I think to an assent account did but YouTube is is is a bit different YouTube does it has D monetized LGBT content and YouTube has said that these topics are not suitable for all advertisers because it deals with sexuality they have target many left-wing channels there are a lot of non mainstream left-wing you know outlets and we actually target what you mean is D monetize D monetize or sometimes outright ban and I think then for D monetizing I think they've made a state what was the the policy there it's essentially things that are political correct if they made that statement I

95:25don't know that I was gonna I was gonna dinner to interject that they've also banned are not banned but demonetised people are extensively people that smoke weed on their Channel totally yeah I actually or certain video game channels that have for unknown reasons just stop having monetization on their channel - and that is the problem ultimately them having this incredible power where yeah they they really there's no there's not real open competition in terms of like another like a parallel competitor I don't think there will be really but but here's the thing I I think you tips out a bunch of really bad things I'm gonna give a very important shout-out to monkey Jones who was wrongly terminated from YouTube for highly dubious reasons he is a dark dark kimete dark comic he had hundreds of thousands of followers he made jokes about things like school shootings very dark stuff but it was

96:16clearly mocking some of these people was mocking Elliot Rodger who's making jokes about it and in fact some of his videos were approved manually for monetization but for some reason YouTube just wiped him out one day gone so he set up a new channel and said okay you know we're not gonna do that anymore doesn't matter they got rid of him he's effectively off of YouTube and he was like he's up he's a well-known funny guy he wasn't breaking the rules he wasn't but they still deleted deleted his channel so I bring him up because I think it's worrisome that yes without an alternative your career is wiped out in a second with no recourse and no reason why and the response they give you as it's our platform yeah and you'll hear people say oh but they're a private business they can do what they want sure but there are monopolies we've got to have restrictions on that yeah yeah I

97:02have a question to ask here because I've had this conversation with some friends of mine and this came up and like this is I guess the devil's advocate to this question because this happened with my space my space still exists yeah and there are people that had millions of followers on that platform are they owed something by my space because my space failed and they're their accounts no longer have the clout that they once had no you know like so if if for instance like it for YouTube failed tomorrow this could pudy pie sue them because they've made bad business decisions and not an issue that's totally totally different I know my license I see what you're sending a Twitter account like they're not banning someone's IP address from using Twitter comm and going to see slash real Donald Trump and see what he's saying right but listen your myspace failed because of alternatives

97:47Facebook became more prominent there an option and the other issue is monkey Jones followed the rules he was he was told by YouTube this is what you can and can't do he said you got it and then one day they just wiped him out and so then they never gave any explanation uh I don't believe so and it was really weird because and I it's been a little while some went over the story but there was a video he posted that was like a music video making fun of elliot rodger he's that school that minister guy it existed on different channels on other like another prominent channel that existed and they banned him and then he brought up like why was it banned on mine but this one was approved and then I could day later they banned the other one they copyright struck it the issue here is if there was an alternative to YouTube you where you can operate I'd be on it right

98:30so one of things I'll give a shout out I've been using mine's a my Indian yeah I'm actually having bill the guy owns it how do you say last name not men augment bill Altman's coming on soon I made a concerted effort after that podcast to reach out to a bunch of different people and try to expand this conversation I want to have the guy from gab two gaps gabs in murky you know a gap has been murky in terms of content but not really in terms of I don't think so oh so I did it I researched this a little bit if you look at their Wikipedia page it's simple sourcing they there was a study done on gab that found I think they only have like five percent of the posts are considered to be hate speech whereas Twitter is like two point three or something so gab is predominantly not hate speech not much more than Twitter and when you consider that we're looking at

99:19percentages you can actually see that Twitter's hate speeches in the millions and gabs is in the tens of thousands but gab is running you know the media non-stop yes men I think when it comes to YouTube I actually I actually trust them I do I really do I think the reason they took on monkey is because the the potential for a PR backlash over his kind of content was so great they said we don't care and that's unfair that's wrong I think they were wrong to do it but but you understand the motivation I understand the motivation and I actually think YouTube does more to protect free speech on the internet than a lot of these other companies do when you and I'll give you feel good example is first of all when you're D monetized you still earn YouTube read revenue so YouTube still will like they're trying to pay you they want the money but with sargon of akkad getting banned

100:06from patreon patreon banned him because they said you used a naughty word on YouTube eight months ago YouTube doesn't carry said the word right is that that pod word called that uh yes all right the white n-word you do didn't care YouTube said it's it's fine in a platform that that's fun that's fine paste racially the context right in the context of which it was used it's it just takes 30 seconds listening to it go oh I see what he's doing even if it's kind of a clunky right use of the words he's not using an array Civ racist way he was trying to you know actually this is a who's trying to show how stupid they are but can we talk about the bias on Twitter with Sarah Jong who for three years was posting anti white racists like mean-spirited awful things and the excuse was she was using the language of her oppressors yeah well we think Sargon was doing yeah he was using their

100:55language against them exactly they hire at the New York Times yes that's that's terrifying and there was a huge backlash there you know and I want to take this opportunity to to point out Media Matters there was when that Ain thing went around the alternative influence network lying mm-hmm like there was a Media Matters wrote about it I politely reached out to the person who did and their response was I hope a bird poops on your head and it gets in your eyebrow and you smell like farts that was what that's that's the response they gave me what yeah I said just want to have you heads up there's a lot that's wrong in this report it's not true my gonna hold these beliefs I've never had this individual and that was that was the response the literal response was I hope a bird poops on your boots on you and it falls in your eyebrow and you smell like like dirty farts or something then when

101:40I when I could so yeah I mean I got ahold of their typewriter or keyboard rather and you know I'm the the the guy who started it was at politican and he and he set up on stage fake news is predominantly it's he said it's only an it's only a phenomenon of the right the left doesn't engage in conspiracies and fake news which is nonsense of course Indians and I afterwards I said let me ask you then because one of your writers responded to me in this way and he's like I don't know I don't know anything about it and yeah I can't respond and then he's like you know walked off and I was like you know I want to circle back to GAAP because I get what you're saying that the volume is lower and that there's less well I read right but what do you what is your opinion of it though you were you can't we kind of got sidetracked oh it's a it's I don't I don't know I I can agree with the the

102:30general notion yeah ology of if it's legal it's allowed right and I would I would argue that you know what jack is trying to do with Twitter or I would say him personally but what Twitter is trying to do is what create like a comfy padded neon room for the kids to hang out it know the real world is harsh yeah I think what they're trying to do and I don't want to speak for him but I think they're trying to engineer the conversation to be more polite and civil says who exactly you know who's who's definition if it's a good point and that's and that's that's I see so many of these people who just they wield power and they're unaccountable well it's also you don't recognize the consequences of telling people what they can and can't do and that it's this is a very slippery slope you're running up a greased hill yeah and and people don't like it they don't

103:10like it and well the thing is like when you see something like if everything was just open what would the conversation should be like if there was no banning if there was nothing it was just everything all real free speech you would have mean if there was it was impossible let's put it this way it was impossible to ban someone from any social media platform whether it's YouTube or Twitter or Instagram what would the conversations look like how much different would they be and would we maybe have a healthier way of adjusting I think it would be worse worse because I could I could be temporary or in the long run may be temporary but there I believe it's called the online inhibition effect basically the opportunity to be anonymous online sure and and the in the distance makes people they have no problem being their worst self yeah and so I can understand what Twitter wants

104:08to do they say hey we need to figure out how we stop people from being mean all the time right because Twitter is is a hellscape of just mean people saying mean things well it's also again because they're anonymous and because it's possible but then look Alex Jones can can say a bunch of really awful things it's his right to associated event he shouldn't if so it does does Alex Jones I'm not I don't wanna directly accuse him because I don't watch his show but if he goes on Twitter and he says something that's deemed to be false should he be banned for that no if he if he challenges a journalist should be banned for that no because let me tell you because he says things about me that aren't true and I don't I don't think you should be bright I think in any saying the things about me and I don't think he should be bad I think Alex I think we should talk you have a

104:54conversation I watched those videos he's upset he's upset and I get it in certain ways I get it and he thinks I took a shot at him and I get it and I probably did and I shouldn't have so he so here's here's the thing that my point is I don't think you should be banned right and it's he's doing it at me yeah yeah like I mentioned those people from Occupy who lie about me all the time they've posted the most ridiculous lies about me I still don't they should be banned right does it the thing is if you banned them and then someone opposes them but then someone opposes the people who oppose them and they want them banned and then you have this war back and forth and instead of fighting bad ideas or incorrect ideas with correct or good ideas now you just have people press and ban hammers left and right you're just trying to figure out who the majority is so you can side with the biggest group

105:43but and you're trying to divert you signal and you're trying to get something that supports your ideology whether it's right or left so here's the thing with Jones though if the people on the left want to argue that he is making the platform worse and and horrible I understand that and I recognize well that's unfortunate right this is the real world and sometimes people say things you don't like but more importantly a lot of people argued that when you when he said the you know he said something about Sandy Hook which again I haven't seen the videos but they've they've been sued they said that he sent a nope never happened so so what is fake news to be banned well many people were saying yes Facebook needs to ban a fake news but think about what that means it means you're not to be wrong okay because fake news doesn't mean you did it on purpose more importantly you're not ought to be

106:24stupid well here's another thing again in defense of Alex one thing that Alex did do is in the future after after he was done saying the things that he said about Sandy Hook he then said it definitely happened so he so he correct discourse and there's no is there a path for redemption when you correct your course and if there's not what are we doing because we're not treating people like human beings then whether it's Milo or whether it's anybody I mean I'm sorry but path to redemption is so critical yes so let me tell you I went to Sweden people were claiming things were happening in Sweden a couple years ago I decided to go check it out for some reason a bunch of people believe that I pushed some far right can far right-wing conspiracy when I actually physically pushed them was that you pushed a conspiracy theory or a per Syrian oh so so so basically you had

107:17Donald Trump say last night in Sweden as soon as he says this the media goes wild my friend and I my friend Emily who works with me on and off set we were like dude we should just go to Sweden and just like walk around film stuff and make a video about what we experienced which had to go almost immediately it's reported we found nothing we found the neighborhood's were actually very nice substantially nicer than Chicago but we did find there was an increase in crime is very tepid for some reason now people are claiming that like I'm pushing conspiracies or something right I was gonna go somewhere that but I kind of lost my train of thought I had a specific a here we go when I was there Joey salads was a big youtuber reached out to me on Twitter saying hey I'm here too let's meet up I got really angry because Joey salads made a video I think a couple years ago

107:58where he staged a bunch of black guys destroying a car to make it seem like these these neighborhoods were you know black people were gonna destroy Trump car and it was like it was just very racist it's awful horrible yeah he's big youtuber and so he reached out to me and I got really pissed like dude you're fake news you're a racist and I was like and I just I starts cussing at him I was like this is like that's not normal for me but night but afterwards kind of realized something Joey made a mistake he reached out to me it was polite he was honest I think he did something really really bad if I tell him if I cuss him out if I just be mean to him what's he gonna do the only people who will accept him if the only people are gonna be nice to him are the actual racists well then he's gonna go to the racists yeah he needs a path to redemption so I so I apologized and I

108:44said that was wrong I should have done that I should I should be willing to hear you out and I should give you an opportunity to better yourself otherwise you won't and then I met up with him and talked to him and I and think he made a huge mistake I think what he did was wrong I think it was self-motivated I think it was money motivated but I think none of that matters all that matters is you tell him you do this one more time where you're out you're out with the Wolves but if you if you agree to do the right thing and your will and you're sincere then okay good for you thank you I think that's got to be a part of the conversation yeah I mean we I I think this idea of just banning people for life but letting people out of jail after they commit murder and right they can reenter society its Kyle it's hard for them for a long time yeah sound show it's not easy but we're

109:27saying there's a path to redemption but what ends up happening is they create parallel economies they create parallel networks and that causes more division more anxiety yes like you see you see these alternative social networks emerge because people get banned so they all move to one place this is back to gap yeah yeah so but you know I think gab is mostly I got to be honest I don't surf gab I've read what these people have said about it but at this point I don't trust a lot of the media I don't and that's not unique for me most Americans have a gap or you mean everything what they've said about gab and everything right I mean what but your opinion of Gap I mean that you see that I'm you don't have a clear opinion of it my opinion of gab is that they do allow there's there's a lot more people with extreme views simply because it's legal right so they go there naturally right

110:13but based on what I've read about it from like actual reports it's not substantially worse than Twitter but it does allow them as a big difference right you can go on Twitter you can get away with it for a while gab you just going gab and say bunch of crazy stuff and right unless you you know break the law there have been accusations leveled against gab that they've actually dragged their feet on getting rid of illegal things like calls for violence you know mm-hmm but for the more are some things you can get kicked off or like daxing right right lines yeah so it's not the Wild West but it's wilder but you know what the media these people and when I say the media I specifically mean these digital New York based outlets for the most part they they like to say things like you know that guy who shot up at synagogue yes horrible just disgusting but they say gab user

110:57so-and-so a gab user he was a Twitter user right he's on Twitter drank water he drank water yeah you know well shrink water Hitler Hitler yep boom yeah there it is but it's it's it's it's crazy it's like come on man yeah you know but I but I will recognize right now that at this point gab is its yeah if you're gonna go on there the media is gonna accuse you of every single name in the book I'm sure you got a you know so I've had conversations with people on here well they'll just immediately start throwing out these these descriptions of what gab is and what gab stands for and like okay I mean I had it with Barry Weiss I was like right I was gonna say ants on politicians yeah that was uh oof that's all just say woof woof which part oof the the tulsi gabbard toady III you know III did you see what um yeah Jimmy did about it I was laughing the whole time

111:49Jimmy Dore Jimmy Dore might like me to in though he's great might right and the way he did it in front of a live crowd yeah yeah and and but but here's the thing I gotta say like I'm sorry to bury it really did sound like you didn't even know if the word meant yeah because if you say what that word mean I'll tell you what I think it means I won't ask someone to check the feed first right you know so it's like and she also she's also been dragged because she did a story where she used a satire tweet from anti-fur or something I don't I don't notice airily so she's had her share but you know and it's been busted doing that too she's got caught with a anti fuh a fake antique post on a wall that was like hourly was a troll so many somebody trolled it but you know that's what's so crazy is things are so blurry it's hard to see the troll sometimes oh yeah

112:43and so that therein lies the big problem I mean my brother might be one of the most notorious not Natori is the wrong word because he like kind of hides in the shadows but he's done so my brother cloned I can't member which website he cloned a website right the actually the yes man recently did it slow him post copied perfectly and he wrote an article about how a new strain of marijuana was discovered cannabis Australia's he said that he was the Dean at the University of Sydney or something like that who was dating pop star Meghan Trainor just the most ridiculous thing and that he said we need to find a female plant so far this what we have its ground brain it's come so so he did this very very clever thing he bought a domain name that was something like calm - guest info that's the URL he then created a sub domain so it's like you know just hypothetically cnn.com - guest the

113:36average person just sees cnn.com right they assume it's real I don't know how he shared it but he makes this whole Ritz it's so ridiculous man I gotta say if you thought it was real yeah I got a bridge to sell you High Times picked it up got 50,000 shares breakthrough new strain of marijuana discovered my brother is just laughing the whole time and I was like what did you do like my brothers like my opposite you know I try to be honest to the best of my ability you can you know I think you know people accuse me of being a liar that's not fair I could be wrong for sure but I try my best to be rational my brother on the other hand is like editing videos making him ridiculous as possible he made another video where and it's crazy cuz he tries to make sure people it's it's over-the-top he made a video where it's a van getting pulled over it looks like a police dashcam and then the cop walks

114:24up to the car checks the guy's license walks back and the driver releases pot on a balloon and then an air point so it's Hanks - like he's disposing his drugs with helium balloons so they fly away and then the cop runs up firing guns at it this thing got hundreds of millions of views it was on Facebook every other day it's it was like he made it four years ago or something and I saw it on Instagram like two weeks ago and I was like dude and I showed him people think it's real like it's the craziest but you know yeah I don't know so there's so much up stuff that is real it's so hard to differentiate what I mean hold on like let's let's throw some shade at high times like when they did this you they said they when they corrected the article and saying it was a hoax they said we wanted to call for a verification but we thought the story was too hot to pass up that's a really

115:10good example but that's a really good example of covington it's a really good example of what these news organizations do this high times they were probably not barbecue Tyler mine when they wrote that and and I say like they're not they're not the the bastions of great journalism we don't hold High Times on a pedestal next to the New York Times not to be disrespectful right and I respect the publication but the New York Times is the paper of record yes at the same time if it's your job you're writing stories on a specialty light come on man yeah but look this is this is a there's there's two big things that affect media that I think are worrisome Covington exemplifies really well that people just wrote they didn't do any research at all right and it was off it was all wrong then even watch the videos because you can see in the first well not only that but what's even more

115:52egregious is they did this several days right afterwards and they were still like the Bill Maher thing yeah it's very unfortunate but then yeah it's it's all avoidable if you're gonna discuss something and you're gonna do it in a public forum like that and you know about it in advance this is not like you're on a podcast ad libbing and you say something and you mystique this is something that's planned the other thing that worries me greatly is what we see with with learn to code right so this an NBC reporter is he goes on this big Twitter threat about how Twitter needs to take action against these harassment campaigns and they refused to do it the next day he writes an article citing an activist about how a far-right campaign is sending death threats to journalists and Twitter's and doing anything about it and after that he starts posting about how he's getting death threats a day

116:39after that Twitter announces they'll take action so what do we see here this guy called for action couldn't get it done wrote an article slanting it as a far-right campaign against journalists Twitter decides to take action now people are getting banned for tweeting learn to code there's so many people do you think are making these critical decisions I think it's a handful I mean I can't imagine Twitter's got a massive staff but what like what you think they have a huge staff what couple hundred well there's a hundred offices and roughly 3,500 employees at those okay so way more than I thought I was yeah that's when I was 35 offices but how many uh example are operating in the bubble during that ideological bubble but it's not just that you know you ban Kathy Griffin she's a celebrity with millions of followers they don't care about Alex Jones Alex Jones sell

117:25supplements right it's complicated I mean I can't really understand why you he's well he's more polarizing but he's already very famous oh come on Kathy Griffin showed a photo of Donald Trump with this you know with his head cut off which is even you know Orange do you wanna know something really crazy the guy who wrote all the articles demanding I don't say demanding that's but maybe unfair Oliver Darcy goes CNN and says it was media pressure that got Jones banned he's the guy who repeatedly wrote about it he was the guy Jones confronted about it yes Oliver Darcy interviewed me in 2016 about a video I made where I said it's worrisome that Twitter is banning people for their political ideologies Oliver Darcy in Turkey I don't if you interviewed me but he wrote an article about my video and this is it so this is a journalist at Business Insider who says oh it's a

118:09really interesting thing to him let me write about your take on what's happening and then two years later is is talking about how his media pressure got Jones banned it's like a weird 180 you know Wow yeah so I'm not trying to be disrespectful to him cuz i you know i know him somewhat in passing but i will say there's a certain point where i think it's unfair to accuse a journalist of advocating for something simply for covering it but then he went on CNN and said it was media pressure that got him banned and i'm kind of like okay you have to realize at that point you were the one who led that charge you know right and you know yeah i don't care if you like him or not banning him for for dubious reasons just creates huge problems it shows your bias but just saying it that way to dislike when hunter has thompson spread the rumor about Ed muskie being on ibogaine and

118:55then he went on the Dick Cavett show it's a hilarious clip and he goes well actually there was a rumor it was a rumor about him being on a begain and I know cuz I started the rumor and okay you know I mean that's exactly that's kind of the same thing yeah it's like yeah you caused it yeah yeah you spread the rumor but but you know there's another thing too is um patreon banned Lauren southern you think it was like a year and a half two years ago and when she got banned it I don't know if you know what happened but she she went in the boat in the Mediterranean and what was that she did something with the migrants she did she did a protest action with I believe it was generation identity which are I don't know how to describe them because you know people like to throw labels around but they're like European nationalists and III you people have called them white nationalists but again

119:45I don't know enough about their group so I think it's fair to say that that's that might be the case forgive me for being ignorant for the most part but their ideology I know people are gonna tear me apart she gets in a boat they go up to one of these my one of these migrant vessels that does they they say it's a search and rescue vehicle but this bet been a point of debate and she like waves a flyer in the air and then she says on the stream like get in front of him get in front of him but I believe she never did jack conte banned her and they were like what you were doing may have caused loss of life your band a lot of people then started to point out that there's a website called it's going down and this is a you know consider to be far left extremist site one of the articles was teaching people or advocating for pouring concrete on train tracks to disrupt derail these trains

120:29can cause loss of life so Jack so I saw this and I thought this is really fascinating I'd like to know why patreon banned Southern and why they don't take action in this regard I reached out to jack conte I tweeted enemy said he'd call me on the phone and I said you know I'd like to understand your decision-making how this came to be what brought you to the attention of Lauren what about this he ended up banning it's going down and then they wrote an article titled Tim pool and the alt-right get you know it's going down banned from patreon or something hmm and that's been cited the jimmy dore had it on his show and a bunch of over like just what we got you know Tim Poole is not alright I know and I said listen man I didn't advocate for them to be banned I don't want anyone banned right I just wanted to know what their decision-making process was and

121:10this was the thing that was going viral among people on Twitter who were you know asking about this and so now I get accused of campaigning to get them bad just like you know Oliver Darcy was with with with um with Jones but uh well and then immediately they slap that distinction on you as soon as I mean just calling someone alright today it's so strange how you know I don't know if you know but all in the world of stand-up comedy used to be progressive liberal like like weird coffee shop type rooms it was all comedy they don't even use that term anymore right because it's so toxic and I try to avoid saying all term you say alternative media all the time and this has happened over the course of just a couple of years yeah and the thing is shifted and it's moving and revolving in morphing so quickly you want to know what's really crazy for years on my Wikipedia page it claimed

122:00that I invented a Zeppelin Zeppelin like a blimp yes yeah it's funny right well Wikipedia said I was Brian Collins brother for a decade here's the thing when I went to Sweden I pacifically stated a let me let me let me let me back up Paul Joseph Watson of Infowars put out a call saying I challenge any journalists to spend a weekend in Malmo and I'll cover your costs everybody's bombarding him saying Oh pay me pay me and he's kind of just ignoring it people are threatening to sue him you better pay you promised I had already set up a GoFundMe for the project before I believe it was before you know something made a video about it saying Donald Trump said X Y & Z we're gonna go do this story when I saw he made this call I think was actually Emily who noticed it I said hey I'll do it and he was like to be I think that's something like I was just taking the piss but yeah sure I'll send you a

122:50donation and I laughed and I was like hey man I'll take you know if he wants to throw away my go fund me here's what what ends up happening is people then claimed I was I went there because Paul Joseph watch and challenge challenged me not true he donated about 9% of our total fund that we raised and I was already planning on going there Wikipedia there was a challenge on my Wikipedia page where they someone said you wrote Tim Poole went there because of Paul just wasn't challenged in - that's not true what's your proof this YouTube video from tim pool where he says we've already arranged this we are not going here because of Paul Joseph Watson the response that's not a reliable source someone came back with a reliable source you know it was a Huffington Post article that quoted my youtube video how's that I understand why couldn't you just take my word for it why did you

123:42have to get Huffington Post to just quote me that was apparently nervous so I you know I'm that's I guess so the reason I bring this up is because what happens then if you're conservative and a bunch of friends who work for various news organizations all at the same time write 10 articles saying Joe Rogan is all right now on Wikipedia 10 articles pop up immediately saying this is a fact 10 different organizations have written it and there it is in your in your page and the crazy thing is the UK does this all the time you know they call various personalities all - right they call sargon they call dank EULA you know just go to Wikipedia and look up the phrase it means white nationalists neo Confederate it's like literally about a white ethnos state these people have denounced this in their and you know it's like with with sargon of akkad it was a really fascinating phenomenon on

124:26patreon where all of a sudden these left-wing outlets said Sargon was banned for going after the alt-right and I'm like behold on you've written in the past that he was alt right well you when you say you like the media's not these various organizations same organizations but differs well I don't want it I don't want to but not the same journalists um I I will lean towards I believe yes because it's it's it's but but so so whenever it's convenient they just throw that there are some people who write that the problem is if I met if I named these people they're gonna they're gonna point their pens in my direction and all these things are gonna swing at me and the other thing too is I don't want to I don't want a brigade them it's not important anyway what's really important is the actual reality of how that's done there are I really want to name this organization it's it's one of the

125:14prominent well known but they repeatedly write stories that are just so over the top I roll my eyes and I'm like well I will say the Huffington Post you know is another organization that wrote like oh god what was it that some some this guy wrote about Nazis on get on a steam Osteen like that steam as a Nazi problem and very clearly like anybody was like video game just right right this we use because apparently he was referencing a very small like here's what happens okay I don't know too much about this I know there was criticism in the journalism space around what he did but it's like you find three guys on Twitter who are saying something they quote tweet them and say boom fact like you find one guy who says you know I just plain don't like this group and they'll be like Nazis don't like this group and they'll write a big story about it cuz I found one tweet you know

126:02what I mean you know so apparently you know this guy in The Huffington Post wrote a story about how people on gab were presenting really disgusting recipes for food and I'm just I'm wondering what's newsworthy about a random gab users master choli recipe oh I saw that it was hilarious but but but then again is that comedy article yeah it's an opinion piece but it's just calling people but they they're senior editor a senior writer who travels and covers news on the ground why but put hold on isn't that funny or isn't it interesting I mean it's if it's just some shitty recipes like the only thing that's odd about is that it's a gab shitty recipe because it was just a shitty recipe online but that's my question if say was on medium which by the way we can't leave without talking about chef basil alright well we talked about it but if it was on medium if someone said like look at

126:53these dummies with their terrible recipes it would still be almost as interesting but its flavored moist but you're allowed to mock them because it's your AB but but it's it's almost like they're uneducated you know Vox ran an article claiming that people who hold alt right views are like 11 million or some huge number and that's just like it's absurd it's not 11 million American what you defined outright as being some sort of white supremacist I will quote The Associated okay Associated Press the AAP guidelines are that alt right means white nationalist a desire can I ask you this we have find that how does it why or this Richard Spencer is the man who popularized the term yeah so he's not the one who coined it but he popularized it and he is a white nationalist right so I mean you know if you want to be a part of his movement there are certain things that are attached to it

127:45and other other all the right people have written huge things about what it is so the AP said these are our guidelines and I'll defer to the Associated Press I have a lot of respect for them there you go you know so if these news organizations there was a will limit weekly this is this is it's it's man I just really I I worked for Vice I was actually one I'm one of the the key reasons vice news exists and I look back on it now it makes me kind of sad how they've written some of these most like ridiculous articles I'm really proud of a lot of stuff they've done but I I quit I quit when I got an offer from fusion and fusion is it was an ABC Univision joint venture when I when I started there they said we won't be partisan for some reason they decided to go far left and start pushing a lot of things that I thought were wrong they told me to in effect lie right so the thing I bring up

128:38is I I just have such disdain for these these news organizations and how they use definitions that suit their needs to get the clicks they want you're all too right today you're not alright tomorrow Yeah right the the click thing is an issue right how much of an issue is that journalists are essentially fighting for their lives because newspaper is almost dead um its online publications are trying they're trying to get subscriptions like I subscribe to several different write news online public aid that used to be newspapers but the last time I picked up an actual newspaper it's so much so that I felt like I had a joke about reading something in the paper and like turning the page that I almost felt like I'm a liar for doing the joke about turning the page of a paper right I remember the last time I did that everything I've read is either on a tablet or on a

129:32laptop or you know do you know what the gallon man amia effect is know when you're an expert in MMA you're like one of the foremost experts have you ever read a news article about MMA that was so wrong no just okay so that same newspaper you're reading it you see that story and you laugh how wrong it could be you turn the page and there's a story about Syria and you go I didn't know that right why would you forget how wrong they were but the reason I bring this up is the analogy is that you turn the page yes nobody doesn't you click the link right right but but let's talk about clicks one of the things we talked about the other day is traffic assignment so I know you asked me this they're fighting for their lives it's a serious issue but I just like to point out their lives never existed in the media space yeah please explain that because that was one

130:14of the most most illuminating aspects of our conversation on the phone yeah it's it's publicly known but not talked about a whole lot that these media organizations mostly these digital new startups don't actually get a lot of views so what they do is it's called traffic assignment there's a company called comScore that tracks the the viewership the unique views these sites have if you're trying to attract investment and you say we get twenty million views per month they're gonna say that's cool but this site gets sixty what do they do well there are some sites this is according to Variety modern farmer comm what is that I have no idea I've never heard of it but there are many sites which you've probably seen where it's like the top 25 celebrities who you know mess up their makeup yes you click the page and I'll show you a photo in order to see the next photo

131:01you got to click the next page that's that way they turn you one person at twenty-five unique views are twenty five views I wants a unique then a company like vice for instance will buy the assignment of your traffic and attribute it to themselves so when the comScore numbers come out it will say all of those views from those clickbait sites are actually vice right that's crazy and so there was a controversy a bit again I'm quoting variety here I don't wanna get sued but variety said that their traffic went down 17% because someone they were buying traffic assignment from was like going through turmoil and shaken and being shaken up and another one of their traffic assignment partners switched to I think like you know got sold to NBC or something so so what ends up happening well I can say a little bit there was a company that was a prominent digital

131:52news outlet I knew someone there who was decently high up who told me our company is contemplating whether or not we should engage in traffic assignment to inflate our numbers and I said don't do it like that's wrong yeah and they said but we need investment so I wonder if is that fraud yes but if comScore is is just lumping the numbers together and I go to you and say according to comScore our network brings in 60 million I didn't lie that's all true yes that's true so here's what happens these companies get massive investment they don't actually generate enough clicks or enough money then once the investment runs out those jobs never existed those were those were padded by investors so god that's squirrely everything collapses it seems like fraud I mean he nuts to me yeah that seems like if that was if you were doing that with some tech stock yep yeah right yep Sonos or

132:56something like that you know I was told by another individual who was at at one of these digital companies that he felt like what we were seeing was akin to the securities problem that yeah mortgage-backed securities yes from dozen eight yeah that's a better analogy right that he said he said think about this you've had all of these big companies he's big investment hundreds of millions of dollars $200 invested into these digital media outlets because they're seeing these numbers but underneath there's nothing there and is crazy so if you're investing money say if you've got some some cash you've worked your ass off and you've generated a lot of money and you're like look we're gonna get into the digital space we have a website that has 90 million clicks and we're gonna take that and then you find out you just got hosed how is that not fraud because buyer beware well because there's laws

133:44that legalize fraud you know here's the thing right is a law is it a lot but look it's it's it's it's an interesting loophole it's not fraud right because they didn't lie to you they didn't deceive you you had every opportunity to look at those numbers and see where they came from to understand what their network was okay well that may be the case but the act of doing it and the act of the fact that you can do it and really you're getting money it's crazy shady but I'll tell you I'll tell you what uh something else too and I and I say this with the utmost respect for for Shane Smith who you know I worked at vice we've gone out for drinks they they flew me I love Shane he's cool dude but he's brilliant absolutely brilliant he is a master of I don't know what you discuss it's a form you know so I grew up with a bunch of hacker buddies and it in a small little hacker community and

134:29social engineering is something that I've been you know relatively well versed in and Shane whether he knows it or not really really understands how people think and how to get them to do things so I'll give you a fascinating example I left device in 2014 and after I left some of the people I had had brought on their recommendation we're still there this body of mine says dude good news I'm going to be running then I'm going to be helping produce the news program for the cable channel I was like wow congratulations doesn't mean you're moving to Toronto he goes why would I moved to Toronto and I was like to work on the cable channel this is back in 2014 he goes we're talking about we're getting a cable channel I'm gonna work on the news show and I was like dude it was a Rogers deal the cable channels in Canada it wasn't a couple years later so they got the us-based Channel but what

135:16happened was a bunch of my friends who worked advice didn't know the cable channel they got was based in Canada but they believed they were gonna be working on a cable channel in the US that's important because you need people to really want to work there and be passionate and Shane was a master of giving you just enough information so that you believed in what you were doing without real it's actually not that great and I'm not trying to be dick I think Shane's fantastic I don't blame him for this but it's clever you get a bunch of employees who believe they're gonna be on this big new American cable channel well she never said American he just had cable channel it's your fault for assuming it was gonna be in America but that meant a lot to those employees so you're able to boost morale get everybody really excited until they find out was in Canada and then they were like wait what

136:00but eventually they did it they did get their u.s. channel but that's you know Shane's he's brilliant he really is he's you ever play civilization the video game no it's fantastic I love this game I'm playing sieve six right now Dan and you can get there called great people they're called great people that if you earn enough points you'll get like a you'll get like Galileo he'll appear and your civilization museum I firmly believe that in a hundred years the next you know civilization 50 you'll be able to earn a great merchants - Shane Smith because of how I'm like I you know he was able to build this Empire he did it through very clever ways of getting investment and admittedly I really like the stuff they used to do back in the day I think the guys Wow he knows how to do it and the reason I bring him up is because the big story about traffic assignment was vice losing

136:45like 17% because of that practice they were doing so he really knew how to do the smoke and mirrors you know but when you look at the other when you look at how it pays out a plant pans out to all the other news outlets then Navin gets laid off you have to one you don't have to wonder why a thousand jobs just got lost in the past week it's just investment money and once they reach their threshold at all you know came crashing down God the the the modern farmer example like the modern farmer what is it I think it's the clicks just the the the the fact that that you can actually buy those clicks and attribute them to something different and then you can tell people in the way how many views I got yeah so I think they go out and do that and sail over to Joe Rogan comm yo yeah and there's there's other really clever things to like and I don't think this one is on par but make you have one

137:37YouTube channel a thousand subs make ten more ask all yourself to subscribe now you've got 10,000 subs get it same thousand people yeah and times and you've got you go around telling people I've got 10,000 subscribers when in reality it's just the thousand people on ten channels so there's really clever ways to inflate your numbers and this attracts investment it also but more importantly it allows leverage in dealing with ad with ad buyers and ad networks what are people doing when they're boosting up their Instagram numbers I don't know a lot about Instagram I pull it up I can't show you right now I just went to a website buy YouTube views calm for twenty eight hundred dollars you can have a million views that's but there's there's there's there's um there's there's good reasons to do it not if you want to be a youtuber if you want to be successful on YouTube buying views

138:22ensures you will never make it but look at it this way no one do this no one I am not advocating for another to explain film ten videos a full season of the Joe Rogan Travel adventure by a million views on each to be patted out over a month go to A&E look at this show we launched million views per episode you want to buy it Wow got a bunch of fans a million people watch each episodes fantastic you see not you see what I mean yes well if you're full of yeah but hey men they're people who it's snake oil as people who do this yeah well here's the thing you get access to a network with real views you'll get traffic right you know if you can trick your way into getting on TV fake it till you make it it's dirty it's it's illegal right I wasn't illegal that's fraud well actually I don't know if I don't think it is fraud if well I mean the the clicks like that I think I

139:17think New York there was someone sent me an article that the Attorney General of once that may have been New York said misrepresenting yourself online through fake views clicks and likes is illegal I think what they were saying is that using other people's images to create fake accounts is like invasion of privacy or something but we're getting to that point but you know there's people who play that game I guess you you you can really you can really pull it off I've met a lot of people who there's a bunch of tricks man you ever you know team follow back is from Twitter you could seen it I've seen the hash tag what does that mean um it may have changed but essentially I follow you follow me that way you'll see some people have they'll be following a hundred thousand people and they'll be followed by a hunt you know ninety thousand people and then they walk

140:02around bragging about how they got ninety thousand followers and it's like well like you just have an agreement with them you're not influential it was a trick that people would do to inflate their numbers right but those numbers are legitimate if you do post something on toast it will reach 90,000 absolutely so there's definitely merit oh yeah yeah yeah it I've seen it work I have seen a translate but it's just that it's a trick it's a trick of gaming system yeah there's there's a lot of sneakiness going on but well I have faked Twitter followers I didn't pay for him but I found them well through that one of those how many of your Twitter followers are fake those those aren't so good yeah what does that mean is it like so many of the people don't engage I think that's what it's based on right and that doesn't make sense well it doesn't make sense and also

140:44because what if they just are logged in they just read exactly and that's most Twitter users right which is still engaging you're just not going to ways so that's one of the big problems with tracking fake accounts is that it's just someone's opinion their most hot that's it so there's two things most high profile accounts will read as having a ton of fake followers because people will sign up just to follow you and really give to say because they want your feet they want you they want Joe they want you know Bill Clinton or whoever and they want to have that feet of people they don't they don't interact and so then they're labeled to fake the other thing is when people make fake bot farms they purposefully will follow people like you so they look real right so you do get fake ones sure and it's hard to know you know people point to politicians and always

141:27like to claim they're fake followers but I'll tell you what you could you could easily go online and buy followers for someone else it happened I believe this happened to the daily I say I believe it luxe I don't to get sued just so you know The Daily Dot one day jumped like thirty thousand Twitter followers and had to put out a message saying someone bought followers for us we didn't do this we are actively trying to remove them right now it's difficult because you don't know who's real and who's fake effort happens right man there's they're scared you possibly removed them that you'd have to find out like what what the timeline was and how quickly they came in and go to each individual account well there's there there's a thing that I think there's an app that allows you to purge what they view as fake you can block and unblock them and they're not

142:02following you anymore but it's stuff man they're they're they're terrifying ways to you know I mentioned buying views will destroy your YouTube channel because YouTube knows they're fake right yeah so think about what you can do to other people if you have three grand you want to drown it right yep yeah either YouTube vibe I've use for them attributed to them and then get them in trouble but I will say for people like you and to an extent people like me cuz I have contacts at Google that wouldn't work on us right I just make a phone call and say I just wanna let you know and they got no problem yeah but let's say you're somebody with a hundred thousand subscribers you know you're making a living you got a career on YouTube but you don't have a manager with YouTube you don't have contacts with Google if someone attacks your account you're out you know you know they can just do that

142:48scary you know yeah I'm in Jeff Bezos oh yeah Jeff Bezos man-crazy is the National Inquirer allegedly we should say allegedly I believe allegedly I don't wanna get sued tried to extort him and it's about the Jamaal khashoggi investigation from the Washington Post it's all connected to that I read I read a bit about it I started reading more when Ronan Farrow came out and claimed that they went to him too so I'm not as versed like I haven't read I read through they they mean II mean quietly Enquirer yeah Ronan Farrow it was a story I think was from the week where run and Pharaoh says that they approached him and you know put pressure on him as well but you know the interesting thing is when I read that story I kind of laughed because I was like member Cocker yeah remember when they public when they outed Peter Thiel and then yes you know Hulk Hogan like

143:41you know these people are really brave to go up against billionaires like this and try and drag them yeah I also point out it's kind of scary that you live in a world where a billionaire can destroy your company because they're angry at you but my it's also kind of scary that they can use this to extort him so that he doesn't he takes the Washington Post or bench attempting write him to take the Washington Post and remove a legitimate news story about an actual murder I don't trust the Washington Post but you know that's an aside and that is an aside yeah like if it you know when I look at what the National Enquirer did it just reminds me of what the media does mm-hmm they know what they can do and they know how to do it the media is influence its power you know brands they're scared they're scared so you look at what happens with some of these Twitter accounts that will lead

144:28campaigns where they encourage all their followers to send emails it's it's it's not the same as blackmail I know means but when you know there's an attack vector like you know what is that wild sardines company they don't want to deal with a brigade from activists you tweeted them your fans tweeted them and they immediately cancel on your show and they disavow you unless you do something unless you say something unless you disavow something hmm you know so granted it's it's leaps and bounds worse when it wouldn't win a National Enquirer allegedly you know tries to extort Jeff Bezos the craziest thing about it is alleged again allegedly that the investigator I think his name is Becker was entertaining the possibility that a government entity intercepted the texts the nude selfies from Jesus but I did see another journalist tweet that they're not entertaining that they're not pursuing

145:16it it was just a thought so maybe it's not real well part of the thought was that his girlfriend's brother who's a trump supporter might have somehow or another got screen grabs of her phone it was really interesting when Bezos said because he owns the post people people presume he's their enemy yeah that's that's another point I'd bring up too when it comes to like banning Alex Jones just because someone's reporting something doesn't mean they're advocating for it but sometimes they are it's like you got to understand the nuance in that yeah but I yeah I mean Bezos is probably not the person you'd want to target I could you imagine what would happen if Bezos showed up at the Washington Post and said guys kill the story every journalist would tweet it yeah babies all showed up it just killed our story yeah it's almost impossible it's oh so unrealistic but maybe there's

145:58more to it I mean yeah the the real the and this is the big conspiracy theory was that you know Trump always calls him Jeff bozo right someone from that side is involved in this yeah and you know because Trump's always had this relationship with the Enquirer that big concern right yeah so I don't I don't know I guess I'd you know this is a relatively new story and I've been you know here so I don't know as much about it as I probably should which just shows you how crazy digital media's and digital things like sending things through the air and it's just well and that people can get intercepted that's why you know when I when I mentioned earlier the potential for civil war like we don't know what it could look like this could be it could be special interests using information it's the information war you know things that people have talked about I was thinking about this a while ago

146:45it's like man why why did people shoot each other 100 years ago that means he'll do but like you know World War 2 why are they running it because they wanted to gain control they wanted they want to centralize power or they wanted to in you know push it an ideology or a government or expand their power you don't need to shoot somebody to do that you just need to convince them you're right or you need to get them to fight each other so I think it's fair to say yeah the Russians are absolutely screwing with us but we've learned through if you trust the reporting and it's hard to know what's real or not that the Russian campaigns were not only promoting Trump supporters but they were promoting black lives matter why they came to fight well they weren't just doing that there's a fantastic podcast that Sam Harris released recently with let me get her name so I can his see if

147:29you can find Jamie it's called the information war that's the name of the podcast but they were they were doing all sorts of different things like not just trying to Renee de Oeste de Resta and I'm working on getting her down here soon that they were they also had like Texas culture they had yes trans rights they have yet they they even organized Facebook campaigns where they had a pro Texas group and a pro Muslim group meet across the street from each other I mean they're they're sowing seeds of dissent like organizing it and I think I be willing to entertain the possibility that what we call the culture war today was seated specifically by special interests potentially Russia nothing to do about it it's done you know when when people adopt an ideology you can't easily break that and some people refuse to cross that divide you know yeah but it's just

148:24so funny how many different ways they were attacking this they had a blue lives matter groups and black lives matter groups and they put people at odds with each other and one of the big ones that they did was they they targeted African Americans and we're trying to get them to vote for anyone other than Hillary and this is like an engineered campaign that Jill Stein's our vote we're like we can't vote for Hillary like Hillary does not support us we can't vote for Hillary and so it made it very tribal the first thing we have we have to assume is that it was effective you know that what we view in the culture war was exacerbated by these campaigns we don't know we don't know to what extent they had an influence over the US but I will say I think it's fair to point out they play a role and then we can see what happens Charlottesville you know you know we can see the dramatic escalation

149:11where you end up with some crazy guy associated with you know white nationalism ramming a car into a bunch of protesters yeah it's you know people get riled up to a point there's a really great video called this video will make you angry by CGP grey where he talks about how these groups they argue amongst each other not against each other they make each other angry by posting images of the other you know there's certain subreddits where I don't want to you know start a brigade but they'll post memes non-stop attacking a particular politician they're not arguing with the left or the right they're arguing to themselves about what's wrong with the other and so these groups grow and get angrier and angrier and then when they finally meet in the real world you get extreme violence so it's very it's very possible to seed those communities and rile people up push these things yeah and well it's

150:02also it's it seems pretty straightforward how to manipulate them and how to appeal to their tribal nature and it's terrifying how easy it is yeah man you know the storms will terrifying how few people are aware that I mean there's a lot of these really toxic pages that you'll find that are commenting on things that are yeah whether its Instagram or Twitter or whatever they're not they're not really who you think they are and what ends up happening the average person say on Twitter will look at their mentions and see ten tweets where they say you shouldn't talk about this anymore how dare you and they'll assume everyone when in reality it could be one person right that works well this is this is what gets companies to run away from sponsoring you know shows and stuff they think everyone's attacking them it could be one person where do you think this

150:47goes if you're if you're looking at this like this is fairly new right all of this stuff is fairly new and and really kind of this is uncharted territory in terms of how to navigate this stuff and they're sort of figuring out what the influences are as we go along and again ten years ago this didn't even exist so this is all all where do you think it's going u.s. destabilization real and at a dangerous dangerous level so patreon right it's the it's the independent economy if you're a youtuber if you're a podcaster if you're an artist if you're a cosplay or whatever well they decide to ban some people for reasons that don't make sense like Sargon didn't violate the tos but they ban him anyway so Sargon goes to subscribe star activists then decide Sargon shouldn't be allowed to make money period so they start you know campaigning against subscribe star subscribe star loses access to PayPal

151:38and stripe so no can no longer process payments who made that decision to remove it yes most likely PayPal I believe I believe they said on the website PayPal you know cuz what happens is PayPal get scared oh we don't want to be involved in this well it's something else happened subscribe Star reactivated there they've got a new payment processor which means we've seen that the budding off of an of a mirror economy which is dangerous the the fact that Americans in general can't share the same platform and had to create an alternate an alternate that had to be supported by separate means if this continues in that direction we're going to end up with tons of systems that operate for only certain political factions Jack jack conte the page the CEO of patreon said - I believe CNBC you can't say anything you want in the world what does what I say in the world have

152:26to do with what you what service you provide now by all means if you want to ban them you can but you can then see the adopting of ideology someone posted a funny comment a company that refuses to sell water to a dehydrated man in the desert because they think the wrong thing but then what happens different companies emerge and you get tribes that are divided not only by their ideology but literally they're unable to communicate with each other that can only lead to one thing the tribes getting physical Charlottesville Portland ball - a boston Berkeley San Bernadino these various instances where the they've clashed and bashed each other people have been killed some people show up with guns I think that's I got to be honest I don't think there's a way to fix it I don't really there's a hilarious comment I'm sorry comic programmer humor on reddit and they said when you talk to an

153:21airplane engineer or mechanic they say oh yeah these things are engineered say you're more likely to get into car accident than down an airplane you know when you talk to electrical engineer oh god we've got so many redundancies that the system will fail if you know when you talk to a programmer everything's everything's bad voting machines are corrupt the system is failing we can't secure it like there was a kid at DEFCON hacker convention who hacked a voting machine like that yeah like the whole system is I gotta say you know that story I told you about High Times yes imagine if someone did that but it was a political story how easy would it be to rile people up and get them violent it's it's it's it's it's dangerously easy it's terrifying yeah it's very easy to get people riled up with fake stories and and you know and once they go viral there's no

154:04stopping it and I think we're seeing a really even more terrifying phenomenon in that even when we have evidence in front of our eyes Covington mm-hmm people refuse right reza aslan for instance yeah he won't back down yeah it's like the the the this it was the first video that just shows the one kid standing next to Phillips that goes viral I can understand why people saw that more like whoa but the second video that went viral almost the exact same time showed Phillips walk up to the kid immediately disproving the original narrative of the kid approached him but even Bill Maher still got it wrong you know so even when people can see exactly what happened it doesn't fit their narrative don't believe it yeah and there was an article that I think it may have been in Gizmodo or Deadspin or something that said don't listen to them we all know what we saw and it's like dude that's if we're

154:50getting to the point where kids at a blackout basketball game we have black body paint and throwing up 3-pointer signs is not cease how do you how do you bring those people back from that from the brink and I'll say this too like I obviously have been you know I very didn't mention ultimate violence all that often but then you have to realize the alt-right is tiny tiny tiny tiny they're they're rare they've admitted defeat you know Richard Spencer say I think he said this at ante fo 1 or something no one showed up he hit an event in Florida 11 people showed up I'm not worried about that guy I'm worried about these fringe ideologies that are racist intolerant and violent slowly seeping into our culture like when you see politicians openly embrace like race-based government policy it's war it really does worry me you know my III think I have this perspective growing up in a

155:38mixed-race family where I've been insulted by the left for being white and I've been insulted by far-right racists for being you know a mutt and so I don't like either of it I really don't but the white supremacist types are falling apart and they don't threaten me anymore they just don't but the left-wing racism and the and these ideas of racial equity and determining what your worth based on the color of your skin are becoming more and more pervasive the lawsuit with Harvard that that Asians have a harder standard a tougher standard for getting in even though agents are a smaller minority than white people yeah why does that make sense why should I have to approach someone and justify my race to them that terrifies me it really does and we see kirsten gillibrand tweet the future as intersectional well intersectionality is that ideology of race-based policy Ocasio Cortez put

156:27forth puts puts forth the green new deal that says racial equity I prefer to judge someone in the content of their character not the color of their skin well that's also that's the kind of talk that gets Trump reelected Oh God and that's that that's what my biggest pet peeves because you know I've talked about progressive tax I I think we can do a lot for a public option for expanding Medicaid the idea of a green new deal at its core to me is fascinating can the government you know can we allocate tax money to invest in new technologies fusion nuclear and reduce carbon emissions and do great things can we make high-speed rails but then when you come out and say pay the unwilling and these other equity things and intersectionality I'm like that's that's not that's not what I'm talking about I can't support that the unwilling is the most preposterous one the idea

157:12that someone's unwilling to work we need to provide them with a living that's insanity I mean that's the ultimate progressive bend but and that's where it keeps going where they're trying to out progressive the next concept but but hold on in a socialist or communist society stuff to work yeah I don't know what society exists where you expect people to undertake the greatest construction project in the history of humanity a massive train network that makes all planes obsolete but at the same time tell people they don't have to work if they want money well this is what we're saying it's like as these ideologies get more and more ridiculous they try to out progressive the next step like it's a fundamental right for you to earn a living and and pew pew research reason put out a poll last couple weeks ago Democrat the Democratic Party 54% want more moderate policies so I my fall in

158:00that bracket but still you still have about 43 or so that want more left-leaning policies both that means as the parties split and so here's the problem I see if you're gonna put me up if you're gonna say Tim you got a vote you have to vote you have to make a choice you've got a moderate conservative who believes things I'd really don't agree with but he doesn't want to give money to people don't work and he doesn't believe in identitarian politics and race equity or whatever and then you've got the Democrats who are so far left to me I can't even see them anymore who do you think you know social liberals and and and and liberals are gonna vote for the closest person to them politically will be a conservative yeah that's what scares me you know we had this great future with a potential for a public option for expanding Medicaid for I mean look I I really do believe social

158:43programs are important we can do more I like a lot of what Bernie has to say I think we need to reform education but I think education could be expanded again I'm interested in the ideas I want to advocate for them but we need to figure out how to do it but my pilot like where I fit politically I'm politically homeless I don't agree with someone judging me based on my race I've been through that hell no never again people vandalizing my home because they didn't like that at a brown mom and a white dad I don't want to live in that world I don't want you to look me in the eyes and say I tell people look it this way when it comes to Harvard I want you to look into the eyes of that little asian boy and say honey you can't go to Harvard you're Asian you look too much like those people how does that make sense why is it that just because this kid looks similar to this kid you're

159:24gonna tell him he has a harder standard for Pat for the SATs to get into the school I just I refuse I absolutely it's disgusting and the fact that it's coming from Harvard is so confusing yeah that the hyatt mean that is the school right when you think about higher learning like where'd you grow up my dad graduated from Harvard well Harvard that's Harvard that's the school and the fact that they're practicing this way they say it's because if they didn't do that the student body would be overwhelmingly Asian is proportionate to their that's out white people I don't care job I don't think you get to look at someone and say you look too much like they do no it's crazy it's yeah it's it's not a meritocracy if you do that I want to talk to about universal basic income what do you see what do you think about artificial intelligence and artificial intelligence

160:10and automation and the removal of all these jobs is a real concern that a lot of people have and then the the way to mitigate it that's being bandied about is universal basic income that they would give you a certain amount of money and I think the idea is that everyone would get it even wealthy people would get it yeah and that would be the only way to make it fair but where the is that money coming from and then what do you think about it I I don't think it I'm not an economist man right you know but I don't I don't think it's feasible at least right now I do believe that on a technological level we will eventually reach like a Star Trek you know kind of future where it's not about communism it's just literally like we have no scarcity is gone right like they have replicators but when it comes to universal basic income people need to understand some basic economic

160:55principles if everybody gets $1,000 okay that's 300 million thousand dollars right right but it's not everybody it's everybody of working-age right yes so so let's let's let's do this under my own I own a burger shop I need to hire someone to flip burgers so I say we pay 10 bucks an hour it's it's not it's not a lot but we're a small business we can't really afford to pay more so acceptable they say I get a thousand bucks a month why would I why would I spend you know if if you know that not really well the idea is that the thousand bucks a month you get you get to keep and then the my times were there more than ten bucks an hour mmm I don't care what I was when I when I was 17 18 I worked for American Eagle Airlines I was lifting like 50,000 pounds per day and I was getting ten bucks an hour he might have been jacked no I well I was I've been skateboarding

161:41my whole life so I was certainly you know in shape but if you gave if you told me hey you know how you're making less than a thousand bucks a month working full-time after taxes how about we just give you a thousand bucks I bet I'll be the skatepark yeah I'll be out you know so there's some positives that people will pursue their passions but hold on how many people do you know want to be comedians and they're not funny core quite a few and imagine if you said we're gonna subsidize your endeavor into a thing you're not good at how many people are really good at cart being carpenters but they wish they could be pro football players how many people are really good at being teachers but want to be a famous actor so what do you think would be some sort of an appropriate response to automation and artificial intelligence you can't just have millions and millions of

162:20people just have nowhere you know and that's that's a techno I said this is why I you know I've never been a pot smoker I think I've smoked like once in my life I won't try now no I I just not my thing but everyone always would think I was stoned because I would talk about this kind of stuff with my friends while they were stoned the philosophical consequences of technological innovation it is not the postmasters fault that he spent 30 years becoming the best of the best in working at the post office that technology emerged that is going to displace him and make him and put him in the poorhouse right when I was about 19 years old I was skateboarding in downtown Chicago and I saw an old black homeless man and I had some leftover food and I was like hey what's up dude you want some food he was like oh you know thanks man and I was just like I got a no can I ask you a question how

163:06did you become homeless and he said you know what man he's I think he was like 60 something he said I used to have a job I worked all day everyday I had a family eventually you know my didn't have kids my friends started to get old and move on I lost touch with lot of him some of them died and one day I got told that my job wasn't needed anymore and so I couldn't do anything when on unemployment for a little bit but my you know the job I was good at didn't exist right I can't report active we said this is 14 years ago but he was like so everywhere I went I said you know I'll do anything I'll do anything but even the small jobs that paid a little bit to flip burgers weren't enough to cover my rent after a few months I could I got evicted then because I didn't have a place to live I couldn't go to the job I did have I started sleeping outside and I've been here ever since

163:52I'm like that said you know and that's that's that's a sad reality what do you do I don't know hey OC but she hooks you up but that's the thing she goes too far but this is why I believe in some kind of social policy and saying that Social Security something to help these people well for sure you know if we have a real community you would help out the people that are in your community with you yes that's you know you know communism works really really well when you have like five people right yeah I try explaining to people they always make this political you know the political compass authoritarian libertarian left right and they people like to claim that anarchists like the violent smashy ones in an tyfa are libertarian laughter no man no no no no like the libertarian left quadrant are smoking hippies live on farms anarcho-communism makes a ton of sense

164:38when it's you and your buddies working together on a farm sharing responsibilities and does it make sense for a community of you know 300 million people and you have to trade extremely specific resources to make a computer happen right at that point you need to be able to quantify the value of specific objects and that's why communism doesn't work for massive on massive scale but I will say when artificial intelligence is a different conversation you know technological advance and advancement is gonna result in like Luddite riots you know people you know the opioid crisis yeah III could be wrong I read that there was a connection between unemployment from these factories getting shut down and depressed dudes poppin pills there was a masculinity report was published by Harry's the shaving company and they said the over the overwhelming majority of what contributes to a man's

165:26happiness as gainful employment like like 80 percent so what happens when a factory shuts down you got a bunch of young dudes who want to do something they want to matter but they can't there's no there's nowhere to go anymore especially in a small town but I'll tell you what man percocets feel real good you know those drugs they feel fantastic but they'll kill you so that's you know I think this contributes to the popularity of Bernie Sanders and Trump they talked about the working class I talked about these free trade agreements hurting people they talked about getting the factories back together and that means a lot to people who have been popping pills who are depressed to are sad and scared that's a lot of people in this country so to wrap this up um the only the only other thing that I think I I would like to at least make an attempt at is what would be the path for a

166:15person who's been banned from these social media sites what what do you think would be a reasonable way to bring people back into the conversation um whether it's YouTube or whatever what would be a reasonable way I mean don't you think there should be an attack on its reinstate it I mean just anybody anybody no matter what they've done well if you commit a crime you've got to you know you get caught you go to jail right then when you get out you're free to engage in normal you know so cynical behavior do you think that the concept of a permanent ban is in some way almost a nun American concept oh man I don't know to get that specific like well we're into freedoms what is it ma'am I believe that as long as these companies are monopolies and they are the public sphere it is wrong to permanently exile someone for saying a bad word for holding the wrong opinion

167:09well a lot of these like learn to code or they're preposterous I mean to ban someone permanently for something that what we're saying a man is never a woman right that was a permanent ban men aren't women though yes that's that's absurd and terrifying yeah but even um like Milo being banned why because he was tweeting at a celebrity right you're supposed to tweet at celebrities well not only that it was I mean the criticism of that movie was no different than the criticism of any movie that they thought sucked right but it happened to be about a feminist idea or a woman's enemy what was always interesting is that I mean it's been so long so forgive me if I get this wrong but I believe Leslie Jones was tweeting her followers to go to Milo as well or something w so yeah well you know she's she's but she's done some some questionable tweets herself Hey look

167:59people blocked me for no reason I have no idea why some people have blocked me yeah I've gone to people's pages and found that I'm blog because that block lists yeah well there's your solution if you know if you don't you know so what they say what they say is it's actually really interesting precedent the daily stormer encouraged this is I'm going off of some news reports I could be wrong encouraged people to send you know racist images and start sending mean things to this woman who I think I believe was a Asian or black and a court ruled that the First Amendment will not protect you if you encourage others to engage in harassment it's really interesting then when we consider what's gonna happen with the lawsuits towards all of the people who smeared and defamed and called for action against Covington kids right that's precedent that was used against daily Stormers not

168:42gonna be used against these high-profile celebrities and personalities and are there lawsuits that are being formed right now after that yeah the big news the five lawyers I think I came over the guy's name huge list huge list a lot of like you know a lot of people did delete their tweets but a lot of people didn't retract bill Mahr four days later it's like after people were already offering to represent these families and threatened lawsuits Bill Maher then comes out with his bad information but anyway ultimately to the point of redemption we shouldn't permanently exile people for saying things that we think are wrong what really scares me about the Alex Jones then I am not what I'm about to say is not to claim that Alex Jones is mentally deficient or anything like that that's not my that's if you can have whatever pin you want the point is if your justification for

169:26banning him is that he said San Diego wasn't real does that mean people who are who don't have a grasp on reality aren't allowed to use social media is that does that mean that people who are stupid aren't allowed to social media people who are eventually you don't have to have an intelligence test to use social media that's insane yeah you know people are allowed to say what they want to say and I think so long as Twitter is a monopoly they should probably we should probably have some protections on being the ability to engage in public discourse I'll give you a really important point Occupy Wall Street took place in Zuccotti Park in New York on what's called a privately owned public space pups this space is owned by a private entity however they had no legal grounds for evicting the protesters from the park because it was encouraged the public was encouraged to come so I would

170:13argue if Twitter is actively encouraging public participation they lose the protections to ban whoever they want I think it's rather terrifying that you would cede political power in this capacity to foreign interest stockholders and private individuals at a massive corporation a monopoly that's not even beholden to the US to a certain degree you know I forgive me for being a little bit of a liberal who wants regulation on massive corporations but I'm just I'm surprised I don't see it you know from other people on the left it's a very compelling argument and I think the more it's fleshed out the more it seems to we definitely have an issue it's a giant issue and it doesn't go away when you just ban people oh no you create parallel economies worlds and you end up with backlash yeah well this in man I'm really happy you came I'm really happy we did this and just thank you

171:04thank you for educating me on this and giving you a perspective and it's a very very articulate and very intelligent perspective and I really appreciate it and I think for everyone this helps us too get an understanding of you know this this the whole spectrum of what's going on with all the stuff yeah and I'll just add by saying I don't think I'm the smartest person in the world I probably got a lot I probably get a lot wrong I I do my best to try and you know have my facts straight if I don't forgive me fact check me all the time you know do your due diligence but you know I appreciate your perspective thank you brother thanks man thanks Graham and thank you once again yeah Tim Poole ladies and gentlemen by