Dr. Debra Soh

00:00five four three two one hello dr. so hi what's happening pull this sucker thanks for doing this appreciate it thank you for having me I've watched a bunch of videos I've listened to a bunch of you talks read a bunch of your work very interesting person this is a good time for a person like you things seem to be kind of scrambled a little bit yes a little topsy-turvy out there these days so you're a sex neuroscientist is that an accurate description yeah I'm a former academic sex researcher my PhDs and sexual neuroscience research and now I work as a science journalist and a columnist and why former because the climate in academia has changed so much like you mentioned how things are topsy-turvy but that's pretty much how you can describe academia nowadays even in the hard sciences yeah it's um it's getting a little weird what are you tributed - I think it's a

01:04combination of things I think it's particularly ologies coming in and taking over but they've been there for a while but I think it's that that they've reached the mainstream I see it as political correctness running amok and I see it as legitimate researchers not being able to speak out because they've got enough on their plate with their research their teaching they've got their students you know they're super busy and then on top of it they don't want to deal with the mobbing that will inevitably happen if they do speak out so things are kind of in favor right now of the craziness but it's fascinating though as an outsider to watch the craziness I bet yeah it's I mean I'm glad I don't have to be in school right now and deal with it but to watch it from the outside it's just so interesting interesting in what way though well because it's almost like there's

01:52sort of a delusional aspect to it like a an agreed upon delusional aspect it's like like the gender one in particular the gender is very strange right now like there's there's first of all the lbgtq I what else etc is there more yeah they're adding more to it they keep adding more yet to be more inclusive okay Jamie something going on Oh what's going on all right I thought maybe we were down again yeah it's just but gender in particular one of the things I've said about one of the more bizarre things about today's political climate is that people selectively agree with science it's like when it comes to client climate change like everybody is like pro science like science all the way look at the studies yeah even when they don't even understand the studies like there's a famous and you know I get in trouble when you bring up Tucker Carlson oh you're Carlson fan I'm just as a human

03:00being I'm not gonna he meets he made some very good points with Bill Nye he had Bill Nye on they were talking about science and he said okay if human beings are responsible for climate change what percentage what are the numbers like and Bill Nye really isn't a scientist he's a science personality this comedian he's a guy who's you know he's a promoter of science but not really necessarily a scientist so he doesn't he doesn't have long term study and research to climate change he's just sort of on there in a slightly arrogant way saying things that I agree with like what I agree with is that human beings are responsible at least in part with climate change this is where all the research points to yeah but when Tucker Carlson was pressing him on it he really didn't have any answers for it so it's one of those things where like people on the left will blindly support science in

03:55one ways that you were me dig myself don't think it's me but then when it comes to gender you watched his show he's got this wacky show on Netflix where they're they're singing songs about gender can be fluid and gender could be this and there's more than two yeah there's more than two genders which he didn't used to say yeah if you go back to one of those oh I did see that there's an older episode where they clearly say that is binary yeah this is like way back before all this nuttiness stuff so it's influencing people who are in the know like people are deciding instead of supporting science and supporting the research on actual human beings as a biological organism instead we're going with this bizarre politically correct climate which inclines people to this weird delusional thinking and as an outsider that's what's interesting to me to watch all this like look at the

04:53scrambling look at this weirdness you know it's hypocritical it definitely is and it's it's interesting to see I mean say the March for science I attended that not this past year but the year before so people are there they're super excited about science pro science I think science is good or all this money should go to science and you ask them okay so you're so you're down for climate change being real but what about science now by the left and I asked so many people this was there because I was reporting on it for Playboy comm and it's amazing people get very uncomfortable they don't want to they don't wanna say anything about I would consider myself to be a liberal but definitely liberals don't want to think about themselves being science deniers and when you look at how people talk about gender now and biological sex differences in the brain even biology

05:35more generally people get very defensive they get angry almost and if they find it threatening for some reason which I don't understand and that's a big part of my work is to say I think we can acknowledge that these facts exist and that biological science is legitimate that doesn't mean that sexism is okay we're not saying that women are inferior or anything like that exactly that's the big point about all this right is that we're not saying that anyone's inferior we're just not the same thing mm-hmm this is what the big problem is to try to say I mean I certainly think we should all have equal rights but we're not equal in terms of what we are we're a different we're and it's not that we're not equal like one's better it's just like saying a wolf is not equal to a cheetah they're different things yeah and males and females are different things yeah and this is this is clear

06:28when you study us as an organism you know I had a really bizarre conversation once with a guy a professor or former professor and he was trying to deny that there did there's a difference between men and women it's crazy and one of the things I said I said okay you get a dog do you ask is this a boy dog or a girl dog and then he got like real weird yeah this is really no answer to that yeah like it's it's a boy dog you want a boy dog right is it a non-binary dog like what is your dog or it might change its mind tomorrow is your dog gender-fluid yeah like what is gender fluid well it's this idea that you can be one gender one day in another gender the other day or it might cycle through the day or doesn't your mix of both that seems like if it was anything else you would have to be crazy right it was anything else yes like if you decided well today I'm African yeah

07:19tomorrow I'm Chinese yeah you know Oh today I'm tall tomorrow I'm short today I'm a pixie tomorrow I'm a wood elf like but I think everybody is we don't have to call it something like gender food everyone is a mix of male and female right you have people that are maybe more typically masculine or more typically feminine but even still there there's I don't think there are many people that are a hundred percent normally or the other no well what does that even mean I mean people are clearly more masculine than other people but does that mean that the people like you know let's pick a person Bill Nye mmm-hmm does that mean he's not a man he's clearly a man exactly yeah he's clearly a man he's not our LeBron James he's a man yeah you know there's there's obviously a spectrum yeah but I almost feel like that way of thinking is more old-fashioned because this is all

08:03about being progressive and open-minded but I think if someone is a man but is maybe more female typical to say that this person is a different category of gender or that they're I don't know not male to me that's more stereotypical you know what I mean I think it's it's not progressive to say if you're a mix of both you must be something different well you're not necessarily a mix of both right you just have a different hormonal profile and a different it's a different body type different I mean people vary so much that I mean I think having some sort of categories to say oh this is a male and this is a female it seems like it's pretty beneficial yeah I mean although we vary so widely inside those categories to pretend that those categories don't exist just seems so weird we would never do that with any other organism hmm and it's a lot of work to you see these companies going

08:57and they're trying to be more and with the times I guess there everything is gender-neutral now and I'm thinking all of that money and time is being wasted when I don't think that does anything for women or sexism if you changed instead of addressing someone by ladies and gentlemen you say people is that really gonna stop sexism it just makes people mad because then they have to change the way they talk I put up a story on Twitter the other day about people that are raising their kids with a in them they're calling them babies instead of babies what is that like I just I think it's coming from for some parents it's coming from a good place like they obviously want the best for their kids and they don't want to limit the kid in terms of what they might be interested in and I think because the media is telling them if you let girls play with dolls that's

09:45terrible and they're gonna end up you know not having any sort of prospects when they grow up in terms of their jobs or I don't know it's such a terrible thing to be female typical nowadays but I mean like you mentioned it's biology that's going to dictate what your kids play with and then in other cases I think it's parents that want to be special well it's also weird because if your son is trans it's totally fine for him to be female typical mmm-hmm yeah like it's celebrated like if you have a trans son and he likes wearing lipstick and short skirts and prancing around then he's fabulous yeah there was a boy in New York and there was this whole thing about he's the youngest ever drag queen and everybody's going crazy and people are angry about it you know yeah some people were angry and saying he's being exploited by his parents and some people thought it was wonderful that

10:34this kid was so expressive when he's so young and then other people said I had a good point they said well it's very sexualized like how is this any different than someone who's in a beauty pageant like JonBenet Ramsey type situation well if it was young if it was a little girl people would be up in arms and sexist and that it's the patriarchy but that little boy so I don't know that he's trans I believe that he just likes to like like a man who's a drag queen is just a man it's usually gay men he like - right you know like an extreme form of femininity I love drag queens but I think that little boy is likely gonna grow up to be a gay boy if you have a little boy who says he's a girl and you see a lot of these trans girls if they were left alone and they didn't transition they would likely research shows they would grow up to be gay men is that you know I mean I'm a hundred

11:23percent for freedom right so I'm a hundred percent for you being able to do whatever you want to do the real question becomes when people are trans and young its how much how much of this is gonna pass and how much of this are you going to stop from ever passing because you're going to inject your body fold with hormones like are you giving yourself the opportunity just to decide to become a gay man versus become a woman would you be happier either or yeah it's very very tricky but you can't even have that conversation no they're transphobic right what it is is homophobic though that you can't consider that some of these kids just might be gay children yeah yeah but then the the gender-fluid one I was reading this article about this guy who varies by the day in like in the day like he'll have periods of stress will switch over to a woman there was actually a radio

12:18lab podcast okay where they interviewed a person that has the same issue and the person was clearly abnormal in the way they communicated and the way they thought it wasn't like you were dealing with some guy that you would trust with your taxes you know I mean it's like the dude was wacky and then now he's a check and now he's back to being a guy and so he actually transitioned in mid-conversation like physically no I don't know I didn't see it because she was listening okay but he's like well now I'm Peter again oh I see what you mean no I'm Wendy you know hi Wendy well it's I don't know how much of that is indulgent I mean I don't want it I don't want to say I know how you feel hmm but I do want to say hey are you crazy is this crest are we just indulging crazy people Angie but I do believe there are people that are trans I absolutely believe it there

13:14yeah that there are women that really are wired the wrong way and they should be men and there's men that are wired the wrong it only makes sense it only makes sense yeah but I do also think there's people that are crazy there's people that have legit mental illness they're delusional and they're also very susceptible to influence and very susceptible to you know someone persuading them that their one thing are another thing look it's those like Heaven's Gate cult people who cut their balls off and more than Nikes and decided to kill themselves when the comet was near yeah that's not normal right it's not normal for someone to be able to talk you lady cutting your balls off or putting on the purple sneakers or killing yourself when the comets close yeah because there's a spaceship waiting that's gonna take you - Xenu or wherever the you're going all right that's not normal either so we

14:07know that people are subject to very irrational behavior under the influence of other people's suggestions or other people's you know persuasion yeah definitely and this is a thing today where you have to wonder like how many of these people are legitimately trans how many of these people are legitimately dealing with like a real mental issue that's causing them to shift from male to female and back again and why is it that we can't ask these questions why is it that even this question right now I could be accused of being transphobic for asking yeah how many of these people are ill yeah well both of us are gonna be accused of transphobia after this yeah yeah I mean I would agree with that I do think that gender dysphoria is a legitimate phenomenon and I do have a lot of empathy for people who are suffering and I think for adults they should be allowed to transition if that's what

14:57they decide to do if that's something that will help them feel better my issues with the kids it's I don't think it's appropriate for children to be transitioning and I can talk a bit more about why but I think in terms of the pathology aspect I think for because gender is so trendy right now and in the past you might have seen this kind of pathology manifest in a different way but now because everyone is saying gender is the way to express you know I think people also see a fever problem in your life they think it's gender related so say with some of the personality disorder people like a lot of attention they like to it's always about them and their identity and their identity shifts a lot so this could very well be what it is and now they're being basically rewarded for that yeah that's the issue right that you're dealing with incredibly indulgent people which do exist and they

15:45then they find this pathway to massive amounts of attention yeah you know I mean this is I I had to construct a bit to mock Caitlyn Jenner I saw it but it was a very complicated bit like how to figure out how to do this yeah I was like obviously this is nonsense and foolish but I don't want to appear cruel so what is the way to do this so my way was to mock myself mercilessly and which is kind of true like I really do have three daughters and I really do get brutalized in my house like I really do think they chip away at my manhood it's kind of a joke but I mean it really is it's all girly in my house my house is so girly everyone's girly they're always talking about girly it's kind of hilarious yeah but the joke was that if my manhood was a mountain of marbles every day they'd take two marbles they'd just take one like you don't even need these these

16:35are what do you care God and then that I'm not gonna go out like Bruce Jenner that one day that one day that they that so I had to concoct this whole thing that they were demons which is how they conjured up all that money like how else would they have hundreds of millions of dollars through no discernible reason yeah there's no there's no way you could like explain to someone how they made so much money if they didn't understand our culture yeah totally irrational right so the idea was that that they did this but why did it was I I wanted to sort of mock this thing that was happening where you got a male Kardashian that's what he yeah I mean this and who doesn't believe in gay marriage who decides he's a woman which I firmly believe he's trans I'm not not denying that at all but our obsession with it and rewarding him with ungodly amounts of attention this won the gold medal okay in

17:31the decathlon was it the Calphalon was right yeah I mean he was on the cover of Wheaties yeah yeah I mean he was a US superstar athlete and then no attention after that he was the whipping boy of the Kardashians on their TV show they mocked him it's like here's this one person with talented rock - don't they mock Rob a bit yeah he's fat but then they go right to that he becomes a woman and now he is the toast of the town yeah he wins woman of the year he's a woman under six months and he wins woman of the year he wins ESPN athlete of the year has been athlete in decades since Nixon was president right or Carter who was it either way this is madness yeah this is where we're not treating this in a balanced way where we are rewarding people that instead of like because people are so they're they're they're they're so ready to proclaim the progressiveness and so excited about it

18:35that they instead of like instead of treating them like as an equal they they go completely the other way so they're definitely not prejudiced they're definitely not discriminating against them but they're absolutely inflating what this person is yeah and and they're making it a big giant deal that they're trans like it's great to support people I would like to live in a world where there's no racism at all so you could mock everyone equally yeah like this is my big problem with real racism there's a lot of dummies in every race mm-hmm but you got to be real careful picking on some dummies like especially if you're a white male yes straight white male oppressor you guys are the devil no no especially you look like me I mean I look like the devil so this is that this is a real problem with like looking at things in a balanced perspective cuz you're not allowed to mm-hmm you're not

19:34allowed to look even what you said earlier you said gender dysphoria you know that's considered transphobic yeah you can't even say that anymore even though that is a legitimate medical condition yeah it's good because they some people see it as you pathologizing being the way someone feels I guess but in my mind I don't think the issue is I thought the pathology I think it's fine technology there's certain things like any any medical condition that causes you distress an impairment that's that's the definition of a psychiatric diagnosis so you should be able to recognize that it's not a bad thing I think the bad thing is the stigma that comes along with having a mental disorder so that's what should be fought it's the stigma aspect not calling something a mental disorder if someone if someone's really suffering that's not a good thing no no it's not a good thing

20:19and also the denial of these conditions in the denial of the science behind these kingdoms this is the issue with progressive people today is that there's certain things where they embrace science and certain things where they deny it and in gender gender in particular seems to be so hotly contested I don't know when this happened it seems to have happened right in front of our face like it just came out of the ground like a plant that was growing in the cracks now it's too late you try to stomp it out and it won't go away I'm wondering I'm wondering where the the like I didn't see this coming mm-hmm and it's it's fascinating to see yeah I think feminism is part of it the mainstream aspect of this really far left feminism I used to call myself a feminist I don't anymore just because the things that people used to say feminism stood for like hating men being

21:10I don't know just they don't say that well no some of them do they hate men oh yeah I have friends who say my male friends who say to me don't my female friends said that men are trash is that normal well there's a woman that I know that's a feminist that has on her her Twitter account it says trust no man like just openly proclaiming that yeah well if you're straight good luck good luck with your life yes saying trust no man but imagine if you said about women that would be a terrible thing yeah that would be that'd be awful as well yeah is acceptable to hate on men now well nobody criticizes misandry you know it's just it's not something that is it gets brought up yeah I've never even said that word before I've only written it and said it or written it and heard it I mean I get it I do I think feminism at the core had some good aspects in the beginning but

22:03it's just gone off the rails more recently well equality has great aspects but I think the problem with any like white power is obviously awful right you say white power well you're you what you mean is you're racist against other races you're into white people mm-hmm but brown power is okay brown prides okay right well nowadays they see it that way yeah male pride is not okay not okay but girl pride is fine girl power is okay yeah but it's weird yes you're you're you're generalizing your lumping yourself into a group of people just because you all have vaginas we don't all think the same but the minute you as a woman say something that goes against girl power they will descend on you yes I've seen that too well it's like you're threatening the collective agreed-upon narrative yeah and you are it's like like the way girls treat mm-hmm girls get very mad if

23:03a girl just decides to have sex as many people as she wants because then you're up this whole economy of controlling the narrative of when women decide to or the value of sex goes down that way too yes which is why prostitutions illegal yeah I see both sides I see some women which I which I find interesting because I think it's confusing for young women now who are starting to date and they think I don't really want to have casual sex but I'm being told that's what I should do is that what they're being told I think so I think by whom by the media more like it's empowering to go out and sleep with as many people as you want and to be like a man like if you look at college campuses and and how there's quite a bit of casual sex going on and I don't think that's for everyone I think from an evolutionary perspective too women don't like that as much hmm

23:50I was talking to a friend of mine today about this who's in the military and he was saying what's crazy about certain branches in the military is you have like a hundred men to one women to one woman and it's one woman especially like if they're deployed and there's they have the pick of the litter and they'll just gang it dudes at the same time I would never talk to but I've never thought about it that way before but he's like you know well everybody just sort of agrees that nobody has this one girl that nobody is gonna owner hmm and that you know she can have sex with as many guys as she wants so like the what he was saying is like at least in his experience that the whole dynamic of male-female relationships shift yeah and these girls can basically date as many of these guys as she wants who's kind of interesting and they don't shame her for that well

24:44they can't because there's only one yeah it's like they don't want her to get angry at them too it's like I didn't talk to him about it a lot we always spoke about it for like ten minutes but it was like this is that's kind of crazy I never even thought about that dynamic like that that's sort of a scenario or there's a hundred men in one chick that's a lot of men that's a lot of men good luck with all that you get sore and you'd be like annoyed like you let me alone sleep how much time does she have you know how much yeah especially if you're in the military you've got tasks yeah things you need to do I'll be tired yeah but it's the dynamics shift according to like what is available and who's there and and what kind of a culture you live in people adapt are very malleable to different climates and different cultures and the way people treat sex and don't treat sex

25:36and this is when I think what happens is people tend to react very aggressively or very strongly when someone is doing something that is different than the way they're doing things because this would possibly indicate that there's another way or maybe their ways wrong or me you know it's just and especially when it comes to sex people get very strange yeah oh they do when people find out that people are into open relationships like I have a good friend of mine who's in an open relationship and it's so fascinating to watch all the people you guys your girlfriend bro and he has to sort of discuss it gasps this is it's not comfortable for me I wish I enjoyed it I don't enjoy it so why do they have an open relationship I don't know I mean you have to talk to him about it I mean he's got a bunch of different answers I think the main answer is he wants to other people and she wants to

26:27other people and so they just decided to do it that way okay and they were together in a monogamous really for for a while but I think if I'm correct I think they've been in an open relationship longer than they were in a monogamous relationship how long were they monogamous for I would have to ask him I think more than a year I don't know maybe two years or something like that and then it's been like four years of open okay well yeah I mean open relationships are actually pretty common consensual non-monogamy there's one study that showed one in five Americans have actually tried it so it's pretty common me personally I'm monogamous but I think you know people should do what they want to do if it's consensual I think obviously having been a sex researcher and now someone who writes about sex research for a living I'm very sex positive and I think a lot of the

27:09problems that we see and a lot of the suffering and distress and issues that people have in their lives could be solved if our world was more sex positive we could just talk about sex like anything else right like the shame of it is the real problem right and this is what I'm saying that people when you're living a life that's different in the way they're living their life they people get very aggressive about it same way I mean sober people tend to get aggressive about people who enjoy drinking or people enjoy smoking pot and taking mushrooms or something they get very shitty ability sometimes and it's because it's it's very polar very the very opposite of the way they're living their life and they don't want to see anybody living their life in a very different way but also being happy they think well this is not how I do it and this is in contrary to my values you

27:59must be doing something wrong right you need alcohol to get by is that what you need you need like oh you don't need that drink I don't but I want it yeah I just have it if I have a glass of wine I get happy yeah who's getting hurt here yeah and like you're gonna start doing heroin then you're gonna wind up in the gutter I never have yeah never been on heroin never been in the gutter yeah been alive for a while no kids happen it could be a bit of projection to you know I'm for sure someone who's dealt with substance issues that the fear that you know it's very easy for someone else to fall down the same hole right but it's this thing that people living a different way is somehow another unacceptable and threatening to their perceptions of what what you should be doing with your life yeah yeah and I think I mean this is very unrelated to the whole I mean but

28:48it's not it's when it comes to gender I think there's just this thing that people people want things to be more easily explained than they are yeah that's true I could see that because it takes a lot of work to actually go so people who say that gender is a social construct that's a good one sounds very nice I love saying that don't start saying that it's not true but it's infuriating because it's everywhere now like this is what children are being taught in school up in Canada that's what they're being taught in their curriculum and there's absolutely no truth to it at all but I mean you if you read the scientific studies you cannot come away from them saying gender is a social construct there's what's the argument for it if you were arguing for it that's I guess the the idea is that women should be equal and obviously as a woman I believe that and so any sort of

29:42subjugation of women must somehow be imposed by society because if we acknowledge that women are different biologically in any way that's gonna be used as justification why they don't deserve to be treated the same as men or they're not as capable as men but why is different subjugation and why is different incapable why is different in fairness because there has been a history of there being sexism and you and say so with the whole Google memo thing and this idea that women are biologically we are different not to say we're not as capable but if there are any sort of biological correlates to what women find interesting could that be extrapolated to capability extrapolated to women should go back to the kitchen the women aren't good at math things like that I I mean I get why people don't like biological explanations for things I feel like you said I think it's just a lot easier and

30:31it's a lazy way to just dismiss the whole thing and say you know we don't need to think about it nothing to see here you know nothing to see here but it just it's clearly not true in terms of the scientific research so there has to be some cognitive dissonance in order to accept that and to preach it and to say it and everybody has to agree upon it which is one of the reasons why I think any any statements contrary to that get aggressively attacked and this is part of the reason why these ideas are so supercharged it's that there's there's a knowledge there's an understanding that it's horseshit and so when someone challenges it and says it's horseshit you've been living your whole life with this horseshit it's almost like a religious thing mmhmm yeah well okay I think some people know what the truth is and they actively lie because they think they're doing

31:23something good for women so they'll say gender is a social construct even though they know it's biological and I think people who are younger maybe going through school now we're being taught this I actually don't know the difference and actually believe it but why would they aggressively attack the scientific research that's contrary to that claim then you mean the people who don't know any better yeah who would they actually believe that gender is a social construct and these scientists are just sexist and misogynistic we want to keep women down but I can get that if you didn't research it if you didn't look into it but once you start looking into it you go oh wow this is weird but it's clearly I mean do you think people actually look into it though I don't think they do the sense I get is they they find someone or some journalist who has has some sort of

32:08decent sound and criticism of the literature and they just parrot that I don't think they actually go and look at the studies well I think there's part of there's definitely something to that and I think there's something to this problem that human beings have where they they have an idea and that idea becomes part of their identity yeah and then they start arguing for that idea and any argument against that idea is an argument against them as a person yeah cuz they're trying to win yeah they're not necessarily looking at things in an objective way where they're detached from the idea and studying it as a thing instead they're arguing to try to win mm-hmm I think that is a giant problem with ideas yeah they're invested in it yes and it becomes even more of a problem when it gets tribal when these ideas are attached like climate change clearly attached in denial to the right

33:01in support to the left it's very strange tribal thing and that also happens with gender and also if you are in support of women's rights and you are in support of trans rights and lbgtq and all that jobs you're almost 100% gonna be on the Left mm-hmm it's just one of those tribal things if you're pro-choice you're almost always going to be on the left if you're not you find yourself in that which one was it was a Tami Lauren I get her confused with that Lauren southern tommy'll Erin those girls are interchangeable in some strange way those that the hot Republicans tommy'll Erin you taught me where she's pro-choice right she got attacked yeah can't be yeah can't be you want to be on this team you want to be on the the mean white girl team you can't be pro-choice you guys you got to be pro-life yeah what about life what about the babies yeah support the baby

33:55you know I'm saying it's like some ideas get locked into ideologies they get locked into these tribal ideologies and gender is most certainly one of those well cuz people don't want to be without a political home right that's a very good way of putting it because if you do say say someone like Tommy Tommy who's why do I call Tammy was she in trouble Tommy Lauren would star in pro-life film after the brave the blaze fired her for being pro-choice what so if you're a pro-choice conservative or if you're a pro biology liberal you know you kind of find yourself in a weird in-between so she's just going the other way she's going the other way she's gonna start a film what's a pro-life film it's like ABC after-school special don't have an abortion and have your baby yeah mmm it's weird well she's got to get her ground back she's been kicked off the team a little

34:52bit it's a mild pick on the Roe versus Wade case starring Stacy - OH so so maybe she's playing a bad person and that movie just made it even more interesting strange I wonder how many of those things are just distractions you know it's so weird people are so weird with their their their tribal identities mm-hmm you know I just and I love when they go back and forth and shift from one side of the other I'd love it when like Wow former conservative seen the light or you know I used to be a liberal to the party lost me I love that and then they go hardcore on the other side it's weird because it's everything everything shifts it's not just a couple of views it's everything in alignment with the other side join a church stop doing drugs yeah it's fascinating it's fascinating as a neuroscientist when something like the Google memo comes out you are also a woman and you are also a

35:56woman who I'm also a person of color sort of are you is a word you're later than me am i well you're different color I mean my personal call I think you've seen or saw baby than I have you can be an honorary person of color I'll give you that bad but I'm Sicilian so yeah somebody in my background got by somebody who was darker for sure how that works cuz if I was Cuban I would look exactly the same and I definitely could be a person of color yeah I mean I think it's ridiculous I can't stand that term for the record person of color because those of us who are not white we don't all think the same but we all get lumped in us yeah having some sort of I had a conversation with a friend of mine about that who's in Mexican he was talking about Latinos and I go well you do know that Italian was one of the original Latin languages like I am Latino if you look at it that

36:50way like what is Latino yeah like you just think it was only Spanish that's not really the technical definition of it yeah isn't Latino I mean am I correct about that I mean doesn't it emanate from a Latin language I think so I think so too yeah but it's just like Italians have been so ingrained in our culture they came over so long ago mm-hmm like you know my grandparents came here in the 20s so that that's a hundred years ago almost so it doesn't count any wasn't count anymore you're not really discriminated against anymore hmm it's like Jews it used to be it's what's interesting is like you've if you follow boxing history and I know you're a martial artist you follow boxing history the oppressed early immigrants are almost always the best boxers at the time and for a while a lot of Jewish boxers yeah a lot of Italian boxers of course you know rocky Graziano and Rocky Marciano and all

37:40these a town and then it became Cubans and Puerto Ricans and then it became well there was always blacks as well but there's like immigrants in particular Irish like a lot of Irish immigrants early on they were thought of as like being some of the lowliest of the low and now Irish people are a hundred percent white like nobody thinks about it yeah of course they're white but I mean they're they're just American that's gonna be Asian soon we're gonna be hundred percent white basically well not if Harvard does anything do it no - they're trying to kick you guys out what is it about not trying to kick you guys out but that is one of the weirder discriminations that is somehow another slipped under the radar that they're making it more difficult for Asians to get into Ivy League universities because you guys do so well yeah I mean it it it's racism percent racist that's racism

38:30and I think some of these people who are getting Pat's on the back for being progressive about being diverse I think they just don't like us and now they have a you know politically acceptable way to do it but why is that why would they not like Asians some people just don't some people are racist but is it that or is it that you guys do too well well that's the thing I mean we throw that whole narrative into question this idea that if you're not white you must you you can't be doing well in life you can't pull yourself up and and get all the things yeah well that was the argument against the charles murray book the bell curve yes yeah one of the problems with that book is people were showing the differences in IQ by you know as it varies across different geographical segments and across races and if anything that book is really like a testament to the master race of Asians

39:25but for real right like Asians we do okay but genetically like Asian people seem to be superior when it comes to IQ according to that book I think we just work really hard and our culture puts a lot of emphasis on education did you read the talent code it's a really interesting book I'm finishing it up right now but one of the things about it is it sort of dismisses the idea of talent mm-hmm and it shows it goes into depth about all the dismisses it but shows that it's not some magic gift it's bestowed upon people but what it is is it shows all the pathways that lead to the skill developments that we consider Talent yeah and discipline and hard work in particular discipline being a culturally enforced thing which is it is with many Asians well I often talk about my friend junk sick who when I was doing Taekwondo he was on the US team while he was also in

40:24his residency in medical school now this guy was a animal I never met anybody in my life who worked as hard as him he always looked exhausted this is his face he just was always tired but then would go to work like a savage yeah was in-between studying for his you know in the middle of medical school and he would put his backpack on filled with books and run the stairs at the University he's crazy yeah but it's this is and I would I would talk to him about it you know cuz my parents were not like that and his parents were like my parents were hippies and they were like do whatever the you want we don't care and his parents are like you must be a doctor and he was like telling me about the kind of discipline that he grew up with and that culturally enforced discipline leads many many many many many people to succeed mm-hmm whereas you know the sort of latchkey kids that I grew up with

41:22there was no there's no culturally enforced discipline you either developed it on your own you pursued something that you enjoyed and figured out how to become discipline or you just weren't mm-hmm you know but this thing that's in Asian cultures is what's propelling them forward if you you know we've subscribed to all the different things that are being brought up in this book the talent coach mmm it makes sense it only makes sense I think it should be seen as a positive thing that you know everyone is capable it's not just a particular race or a particular group of people that can be successful I mean my issue with the whole thing with the Harvard lawsuit is that why are agents being punished for doing well you explain the lawsuit for people who don't okay so it turns out that for decades now Harvard has been discriminating against Asians and requiring them to have higher SAT scores

42:13than people of other ethnic backgrounds in order to get the same chance of admission and then more recently it's been shown that okay so Asians do well with SAT scores they do both extracurricular activities so the only way that admissions committees can actually penalize them is through rating their personality so seeing them as you know less likeable things like that because they're subjective and you know I find it amazing that very few liberal outlets have covered this the New York Times has been one but outside of that it's been very few and it's really disappointing and no one has I mean I wrote about this for The Globe and Mail and I was amazed no one had heard about this story at all well not only that even when I was covering the New York Times every burglar okay yeah let's go on with our day gone yeah in and out yeah whereas if it was in about any

43:00other subject or any other race or gender that's being discriminated against I mean if it was discrimination against black people the same like systemic way more systemic way it would be outrageous people go crazy yeah and even more insane that you're doing it to the most successful people yeah the most successful in terms of academics cuz that's the problem right yeah the problem is not helping Society either I mean if I were not Asian I would be saying the same thing I don't think it makes sense to take people who are doing well and hold them back you know if you want your society to do well I think the solution would be to help people who are not doing as well don't penalize the people who are doing well well I think there's a fear of Asians in this and I'm not bullshitting and one of the I've been obsessed with this company Huawei recently and what I

43:53got obsessed with them for two reasons one because I read an article about the superiority of these cellphones that they're producing that are not being accepted in America and so then I started doing I'm kind of a dork when it comes to like cell phones and Technology I'm very fascinated by them so I've read a lot of articles about huawei phones and they have these insane Leica cameras of 40 megapixel lenses three lenses on the front and 20 plus megapixel selfie cameras and like really intense technology much more much higher gigabytes like I think they have 500 gigabyte storage capacity four thousand milliamp batteries like they're they're a superior battery it's a superior phone and I'm looking I'm like wow this is kind of crazy and then it turns out you can't sell them in the United States and the the federal government's blocked these carriers from having them and

44:51they're saying it's because the Chinese government is involved in stealing information and and hacking and all those different stuff I'm like okay all right maybe but but but it's kind of weird that you can't figure out whether or not a phone is being used to like how are these hackers how these like super genius people who program phones you can't like look at one of those phones and and figure out what it's doing is it like doing some magic or somehow other it's stealing people's information and there's no mechanism that you can detect well do you think there's another reason why they are not letting them in is that they're scared that these companies which are fanatical maniacal in their aggressive pursuit of dominance in the cellphone markets and technology in general are gonna take over hmm they're gonna squash all these American companies hmm and I was like

45:44how much it I want me this is my own personal speculation but I'm looking at this I'm like how much of the how much legitimacy isn't that because there right now worldwide I believe that the number three cell phone manufacturer I think it's Samsung Apple and then Huawei but you can't buy huawei phones in America hmm and I'm wondering yeah yeah you're scared of the Chinese take are you are you gonna try and get one of these phones anyway I did try to get one but what I found out is they're not they're not set up for the US market they're GSM phones and I'm on a CDMA network but the gsm phones they're using different bands they're not using all the same bands like when you buy a phone from china mm-hmm even if it's for the UK they don't use so if you there's some places where you would sacrifice coverage say if you bought a and if you or a cell phone genius out there and you listen to me

46:38butcher this I'm so sorry but this is all I got what's up could you just use it with Wi-Fi only and not connect it cuz you're no Wi-Fi almost never got as a phone I know but where's Wi-Fi you driving you phony Wi-Fi when you driving your car how you doing that Time Warner has Wi-Fi all over LA they have Wi-Fi on the air not probably tracking you but yeah definitely 100 percent okay so if you're driving in your car you could be on Wi-Fi and of your cell phone so I'll shut off cars also now have them built into their thing - there's no so those are cellular there so just a question couldn't you also but that's a cellular Wi-Fi so you'd have to have a cellular account so like who would be your cellular provider then you're just connecting your phone to a Wi-Fi thing in your right that's a different thing where AM W or right right so whatever that is it would be a local thing to use

47:24the foot that you'd have to be right next to your car to use your phone that's stupid what I'm saying is like the problem with the this is a what an article that I read does explaining the problem from I think was one of those tech sites but it was saying that in certain places with limited coverage you probably would have no coverage with one of these phones whereas it would work okay if you were in New York or in Los Angeles and Chicago or something like that but if you went to the boonies yeah well you might if you have Verizon you probably could build text your friends or get a phone call out but you wouldn't be able to do it'd be a lot harder yeah yeah it's just not optimized for our networks well hopefully it'll change or not or not that just keep squashing them but I wonder you know being the the problem is I believe they think Huawei is connected with the

48:08communist government okay yeah yeah I want that they're completely integrated so it's I mean the separation of business and government over there it's very sketchy right hmm yeah - I know I'm just I just wonder if there's a fear of Asian success yeah I mean how could that be though for Samsung Samsung is everywhere there I mean they're gonna come for everybody so they're coming for us right now it's only a matter of time you know who's they the people who want equality about come for everyone oh who are those people the people who are really into identity politics do you think I didn't really think that's what was holding back Huawei no it was the government no government was worried about them getting too much money in power yeah but I guess if you're asking me in terms of my my view on things and in my experience mmm that's where I would take it so the quality of outcome

49:05people the reason why they're trying to keep Asians or at least limit the number of Asians in but doesn't that have the opposite effect doesn't that make a jhin's work even harder yeah and I mean if you keep them out of Harvard they're just gonna go to Yale keep my doesn't have numbers like that so at Cal Tech there are a lot of Asians there because they don't they don't discriminate thank you so they just dominate so you use Cal Tech is a petri dish it could be like yeah mm-hmm but what's wrong with that it's like but no no the other thing like what's wrong with certain cultures dominating I don't think there's anything wrong with that I think well I mean if you're asking me in terms of what people see as a problem I think because it looks as though other groups are not getting a fair chance it doesn't let make it doesn't make people feel good right because it means that

50:03you're acknowledging at some level that some people are doing better than other people and that makes some people uncomfortable right it's the participation trophy world yeah yeah the equality of outcome world yeah that's exactly what it is right but it's gone to a place where it becomes indefensible so instead of trying to raise up people whose scores are lower and give them an equal an equal opportunity or take people from impoverished areas with poor education and them more of a chance which is what affirmative action was supposed to be about yeah instead of that you're doing it from the top down no no no no too many of these people that are doing good we're gonna squash it we're gonna limit their ability but how could they do that in good conscience that's what's crazy but doing it from that perspective doing it like looking at a race that's super successful that

50:55is also a minority mm-hmm and saying to many of them well that's the thing I mean I think these people do think they're doing something good they're doing it for the better of society and for these other groups I'd like to see it too have you ever talked to someone about it that's Pro discrimination against Asians I have after I wrote that column for The Globe and Mail a number of people came over the woodwork to tell me how wrong I was and there was some white know some Asians do really yeah well to say don't let yourself be used by the far-right to justify you know taking down other groups oh that's an interesting way of looking at yeah so that I mean that's one way that you could look at it but how is that way possible to look at it that doesn't even make any sense you how would the far-right so the far-right a hold of the superiority of Asians in

51:47academics because there are other racial groups that they don't like or I guess they dislike more than they dislike Asians so they'll use Asians as a way to justify discrimination against those other groups I don't really buy that but that's what I've heard that argument sucks I'd like to sit down with someone with that argument that's a stupid argument that argument doesn't work yeah it doesn't work what I find the most sad is there are agents who are totally fine and they say I'm willing to give up my spot for someone else because I think diversity is important and I think that's someone who needs friends that's you need friends so bad you willing to say that but that's a virtue signaling thing that's one of those I hope so I hope it's virtue signally it's not someone who actually thinks that way they could actually think that way but the people cut their

52:33balls off and killed themselves because they thought the comet was coming and the spaceship was behind it they thought that - yeah people think all kinds of things they think all kinds of things yeah and that is one of the main is where I wanted to talk to you who's that people do think all kinds of things em hmm I wanna I want you know I want to talk to neuroscientists to figure out what's happening here what is it yeah let's you were saying something about the Google memo earlier though yes yeah that's I mean I had James on and you know he's kind of now he doesn't really have a home he doesn't have a place to go I mean in terms of like like politically politically or in terms of having a job I mean he's like almost unhireable you know I don't know if he's employed now but he's in this lawsuit with Google and scientifically he has every point in the world I just

53:25don't know if it's ever gonna hold up in this climate yeah so I actually got a chance to talk to James as part of so there's a podcast wrong speak that I host with Jonathan Kaye and our first episode was actually about James to more and his saga and basically how what I took away from that whole thing I mean so it's been almost a year now it's amazing how the media could not get it right and I feel that they intentionally smeared him it wasn't that people didn't understand the sign so that they very intentionally said we don't like this we want to get clicks or we want to basically sacrifice this man for our agenda I agree with you and I don't think it's just the media I think it was the CEO of was it YouTube that was saying that it was promoting harmful it was the VP of Google put that statement out yeah yeah but one of the one of the women that ran YouTube was talking about

54:17it too and the way she was describing it was as if he was talking about women being inferior that's not what he said it he said and not only that they neglected to to promote the fact that it was at least a page and a half of that memo was about how to encourage women yeah be more active in tech yeah this was not an anti woman screen no no and I mean if you hear what he had to say when I spoke with him he very much was for equality and very much it was for men and women being working together you know and it's he's not a misogynist I think it's crazy that that's the narrative that continues to go on oh well the problem is he actually sty he actually cited the studies that showed why people choose different professions why people gravitate towards different activities and different professions based on gender and these are actual studies so in in citing those

55:15studies he cited something that's contrary to this promoted narrative mm-hmm and that's where he was shot down hence the title of your podcast wrong speech he did wrong he did yeah and if the thing is of them the most important aspect of the podcast is that the things that people are saying there's some truth to it it's not just crazy loopy ideas right there's there's truth to it but for some reason we still can't say it and why is that I don't know why that is but the problem with denial of any facts is that the people that are opposing you now have evidence that you're a loon right like that one of the problems with the left and this really radical progressive behavior that's in denial of science is now the right gets to look at the left and go look these people are their mind why do you trust them about abortion why do you trust them about this why do you trust

56:10them about climate change clearly they're loons and this this is I mean this is just weird toxic tribal behavior mm-hmm yeah because I mean how can you legitimately deny like you're saying men and women are different when you say that people stop listening right they do think you're a crazy person they miss the larger point because there are some people who will look at that and say okay men and women are different that must mean women are not competent so instead of having this more nuanced argument or discussion about we can be different but that doesn't mean women are incompetent they just simply say oh you want to say that men and women are the same so we you know we're not even speaking at the same level in that in that case well it's so foolish and it's um we are there's clearly differences between men and women and there's clearly differences inside genders I

57:01mean there's human beings very widely and wildly and it's one of the more interesting things about us I mean I think it's a good thing it's a fascinating thing because it's it's in the whole thing has gotta go this he's got to move around and the only way it moves around is if everybody's different if everybody's just a block yes the same shape the same density the same size like what is that that's luring both not just boring you're not gonna have a competent Society it's not gonna work like you need soft and hard you need both you need something in between you need far extreme right to polarize and activate the far extreme left I mean I really think you need a guy like Trump to get people to be more politically active and more socially active I think in many ways he does the left to service by providing this like ridiculous figurehead of what's possible with ego

57:53and greed and and and right wing gone amok you know the Steve bannon's and the bright parts and all that stuff like that stuff empowers the other side and the good thing about it is somewhere in the middle is like a balanced healthy society and hopefully we'll be able to achieve that someday but I mean this is the argument always is that you cannot have light without dark good without evil and the pendulum is gonna swing back hopefully just waiting for that time to happen it always does yeah it seems to always do that I just would hope that with the amount of information that's available today that we can look at the actual studies that are being done on gender on sex on biology and don't look at it in terms of you know don't quantify it in terms of this sides better or that sides better just look at what fascinating differences mm-hmm this is amazing and it's interesting and

58:46there's a lot of dummies that are men and there's a lot of dummies that are women there's just dummies yeah it doesn't have anything to do with one gender being superior or one gender being inferior it's just human beings have a lot of variability and there's a lot of different things that a lot of inputs in you developing and becoming a 30 year old person that happens to be talking to this other thirty year old person your path to get to wherever you are there's so much going on there's influences in terms of your environment your education your your life experiences your family your loved ones your there's so much that leads to you being who you are today yeah and it's really fascinating to study that but only if you're allowed to actually look at it and be honest with ya yeah because there's no point otherwise if you're just going to keep pumping out like so

59:40from a research perspective you if you go in the only scientists are going to look at this stuff now the people who know what they're gonna find in advance they're not going to publish anything that's gonna upset the public so in my mind there's no point even do that kind of research because that's not actually science what you're doing yeah that's really crazy right that's work it's really crazy or you're not even allowed to do certain kinds of research hmm or if you are doing it you're going to be categorized oh he's alright yeah or you're you know you're a conservative or you're you know whatever whatever you that person you're bad bird you're wrong speak yeah yeah exactly and so why did you decide to call your podcast that I mean it's it's a throwback to Orwell obviously in 1984 and this idea that by controlling language we can control the government

60:28can control how people think and what reality is and what I find interesting is with the topics we covered so first episode we talked to James d'amour second episode we talked to Lindsay Shepard and looked at the whole what happened at Wilfred Laurier University and then the third one is rapid onset gender dysphoria so looking at this trend and adolescent girls who come out as transgender even though they've had no previous signs of gender dysphoria and so with all of them these type these issues are all super taboo and all these people have been mobbed and in the case of rapid onset gender dysphoria you see the parents who are being called transphobic for questioning is my daughter really trans you know we're just trying to get at the truth really we're trying to understand you know why is it we can't talk about these things why is it weird in such a situation now

61:13that the the response to any sort of unpopular idea is to be mobbed and to attack people and intimidate them and shut the conversation down like how do we stop that from happening explain rapid onset gender dysphoria because I'm not really aware of that so it's this phenomenon that's been growing more recently well recently I've probably seen the last 10 years there's been a switch so before referrals to gender clinics of kids who are feeling that they were born the opposite sex is predominantly boys and then suddenly there's been this explosion of girls and so when you talk to the parents and it's interesting when you listen to the episode that we did their stories are so similar they're literally identical their daughters have always been gender typical so they're always very girly girls they've never been gender dysphoria Bertie they develop you know there's no problem there and then

62:03usually what happens is there's some sort of I don't know educational session at school or one of these girls their friends come out as trans and then the daughter says oh I want to be a boy and so if you take that child to a professional like a therapist the therapist has to affirm the therapist can't question that and so you have these girls a lot of them have autism or they have other mental health issues they're not getting treated for those issues instead they're being told okay if you want to transition we'll help you and like I said I'm not against adults transitioning I don't think it's anyone's place to tell an adult what to do and I think transitioning can be beneficial but you want this you if someone transitions you want it to actually help them feel better and for these girls if the issue is not even about gender it doesn't make sense for

62:48them to transition now this rapid onset gender dysphoria is this typically females yeah almost all females what's the cause of that I think it's social contagion I think part of it is for some of these girls they are a bit socially awkward and so when they come out as transgender suddenly everybody loves them and wants to support them and I think as people should for trans people because obviously it's a difficult thing to go through but I think there's an aspect of it that people aren't talking about that kids are coming out as transgender just because it gives them acceptance an extra reward yeah there's a reward in terms of the attention they get yeah and also I think for girls I mean puberty is not a fun time puberty is not a fun time for anybody but for I wouldn't know you didn't go through puberty and I did okay I did but I mean you know for like I love when people say

63:36well it's it's harder for guys what would you know you've never been a girl well I think it's hard for everybody everyone is kind of awkward and lanky you know life is hard life is weird being a person being a finite organism clinging to a ball at spinning a thousand miles an hour early through infinity that's weird hmm life's weird yeah and then the fact that your biology changes and you get in done dated with hormones and it's uh just the the life that we live and then adapting the culture and trying to figure out how to be accepted yeah I think that that certainly plays a part this rapid onset gender dysphoria how is this being treated like in terms of like houses being accepted in academia how is it being discussed in the literature and what what are the recommendations for what to do about it and were the descriptions of what it is well there's only been one study so far that's been

64:29published because it is such a new phenomenon and because it is so hard to do this work because I mean people call it a myth pretty much anything that counters the transgender narrative is called considered hate speech so as a researcher if you try to do any research on this issue that goes against what trans activists say is acceptable you know you're going to get into trouble so no one wants to touch it so there's been one study that did show you know with girls especially it's very much about being influenced by friends within a peer group I think it's this there's some crazy high number in terms of the number of girls that will come out as transgender one after the other so it's real but I mean I get why people find it some people find it threatening because it suggests that maybe trans people aren't really transgender you know maybe the way they feel isn't legitimate but

65:15in terms of the way to treat it there are these parents are at a loss I mean that these girls are not getting treated for the underlying condition there was one parent we spoke to he saw nine mental health professionals every single one said that your daughter's not transgender but they couldn't go on the record as saying so I think only one went on the record is saying so because they're terrified they're terrified of losing their job they're terrified of being attacked yeah yeah definitely it's so interesting when you watch the similarities between any group that like is that feels that they're being maligned or that are being very defensive about their position and trying to hold strong and aggressively attacking people that are against it in many ways this sort of behavior is mirrored in the Second Amendment people like the people that are probe like if you tried any gun restrictions

66:08or any gun legislation or any changes in the laws of gun control they aggressively go after it they do whatever they can to keep things the way they are now and show how much positive benefits guns have and how how many people are saved by guns but it's this thing besides the gun take the gun out of it and it's this it's the defense of the idea yeah it's like very committed yeah they're they identify with being a person who's a gun nut yeah or a gun supporter Second Amendment you know freedom-loving I got a eagle on my back you know that kind of it's like and it's the same thing with trans people like anything against anything what you're saying this is impossible yeah this thing that you're talking about this rapid onset gender dysphoria being autistic people that is transphobic and then they get super hyper aggressive about it instead of saying oh well whoever this person is

67:04well if they're a trans person saying well I am legitimately trans but it's entire pot entirely possible that there's a broad spectrum yeah of human behavior and human thought and that some of these people have a real issue and I could see the reward especially in today's climate when you look at today's climate what's that's it that would be an interesting study right if you look at the climate of today and the support of trans people and the attacking of people that are transphobic mm-hmm and the the overwhelming social benefit of supporting trans people and then you look at the rapid onset gender dysphoria and see if they match up mm-hmm you know what you were saying actually I think the majority of trans people are not on board with this whole across the board everyone should just transition but I think it's it's another case of the vocal minority mm-hm saying you're

67:57shutting down anyone who dares to disagree well some trans people get very upset if non trans people talk about trans people yeah yeah just larious yeah what are we supposed to do supposed to just shut our mouths and let you just run things like what I don't know what to do like this Scarlett Johansson sounds fascinating yeah she was gonna play a trans woman in a movie and people from the trans man sorry a trans man in a movie and people freaked out that she is not trans and she she has his part you know that was the same thing that happened the Jeffrey Tambor Jeffrey Tambor was accused of sexual harassment by people in the set who are trans who were also very upset that he was the star of a television show that was about trans people and he's not trans right and they were trans I get where people are coming from I do because you know they I think representation is important to some

68:50extent and so I can understand if you are of a group that isn't being represented in the media how you would want that to change yeah but you are also looking at an a-list actress who would bring an incredible amount of attention to your progressive project yeah and you know it may very well change the tone of the way people accept trans people like if it's portrayed in a positive light it's entirely possible that it would open up like especially if people that are on the fence it might open up their heart and yeah make them look at things differently and say oh okay I see where this woman wanted you know she she wanted to transition to be a man because she was wired incorrectly or wired to be a man I shouldn't even say incorrectly like maybe I you could see her as a person now instead of just as a subject for debate you know well it's the only fear I would have is not

69:46not with your point but with my point with the tokenization of people so to say okay if this is a trans role we need to find a trans person right you know same as with racial tokenization like we need to have a certain quota so we need to have this number of people that fit this that's my only issue because then people look at it and say oh you only pick this person because of their identity not because of what they brought to the table true but I could argue against that if you go back and looking like John Wayne when he played Genghis Khan like what and the was that well there's a bunch of those really goofy ones like Charlie Chan do you ever see the old school Charlie Chan movies I think so I think you can find Charlie Chan it's ridiculous they I mean you could even get an Asian guy to play Charlie Chan like the is this or diminutive and they'd even try to make

70:35John Wayne look like he was Chinese yeah you know I mean there was a lot of that going on you made you ever see that ad where you see the Native American yeah there's there's the guy who played Charlie Chan that doesn't even look a little Chinese any talk didn't like a real stereotypical like shitty Chinese actor that's a bit offensive super offensive right but that was the sign of the times and so what trans people would say it was like look this is the same goddamn thing mm-hmm this is just you're looking at in terms of Chinese people we're looking at in terms of our people and you know we're not being represented you have someone playing us do you remember that Native American ad there was an ad where someone would throw litter out of the car window yeah yeah a varakin guy had the tea rundowns cheek I do remember that yeah the guy was Italian yeah he

71:27wasn't even a little bit people know that though well they do now they do now anybody get upset now some people know because I didn't like I'm not a researcher yeah I didn't go deep and investigate I would just read it oh that's hilarious yeah I mean I think for a lot of these issues at the core there's something valuable there I do get the concern and I am empathic for that but it's to the point now it's like every little thing yeah you know well the people this is the outrage culture people are like super pumped to find something to be it's outrageous and then point fingers and attack mm-hmm and they love it when people back down oh yes they're so excited so like when Scarlett Johansson backed out of that movie everybody got so excited we did it girls yeah we gotta you know and but when people don't back down they get they just give up or they get confused they

72:16don't know what to do but that's the thing I find when you don't back down they go and they find someone else they'll leave you alone do you see what happened to Anthony Jeselnik no I didn't they're attacking Anthony Jeselnik they're attacking a bunch of people for tweet jokes after James Gunn got fired you know James Gunn is he's the guy who is the director of guardians of the galaxy he had some really questionable tweets there were jokes there just he wrote some joke joke things but it's like about pedophilia oh I did see that yeah like a wide let's see there was like a huge ya screen of them copied and pasted yeah yeah they're terrible yeah the problem is they're not funny yeah and they're jokes and they're really gross but should he be fired for that no he's just a shitty joke teller if you find out he's actually a pedophile that's one thing yeah it's Disney in this today's

73:07climate so then they find that Anthony Jeselnik the stand-up comedian has a bunch of also offensive jokes and some of them about pedophiles and so they go and try to attack him and Anthony Jeselnik writes looking through my Twitter timeline something along like a needle in it yeah he said looking is like looking for a needle in a needle store on customer appreciation yeah yeah it's so true wait his whole thing is his character like Anthony Jeselnik and particular I'm friends with him his whole thing is being ruthless and super offensive hmm like he had a show called the Jeselnik offensive mm-hmm I mean that's what he does mm-hmm he said I mean his character is he's an awful person that's the character and so that's gay but it's totally lost on people now right you can't you just can't say things period well they're looking for people to back down and

74:02they're looking for people to get scared and then I mean this is it's fun it's fun to find a target mm-hmm and find of all let's get them fired get her fired take her off that movie it's fun for them because as you know hashtag air quotes activists what they're doing is they're just attacking mm-hmm and there's probably some good out of it but look there's got to be some good for sure out of real monsters getting arrested right there's there's some good out of like the Harvey Weinstein's and the bill cosby's of the world getting arrested and getting busted and shutting down and we would hope that other monsters in waiting would not act out on their instincts because of the fact they're worried about the repercussions that you're clearly seeing and that we would hope that people that our behavior as a culture shifts one way or another and then it's going to move as far away from massage

74:59as possible and it's whether it's through the threat of incarceration or shame or whatever it is that causes it to go the other way it's probably for the best as long as it doesn't go as far as all men are pigs yeah all men are creeps all men are trash and that's what we were talking about earlier like when it gets to that place you got to go well this is not this is not a good place to be well also if there is an allegation that that's taken at face value right away because we do see unfortunately that some of these allegations are false well it has to be this whole idea of believe women well ok but ok does that mean don't believe men because some women lie and some men lies what about individuals what about human beings and so if we're going to meets what we're talking about earlier like white power or black power brown power votes human beings as soon as we

75:54stop looking at human beings as individuals and we just agree that one group is good and one group is bad you've got some real discrimination problems yeah well you can't win in that way either because you can't look whether you side with believe all victims or I believe what is it I believe women or something like that yeah there's a hashtag believe women believe so but I believe survivors or something like that right and then or if you say you want due process and women lie and you know that side of the equation I think even both sides are equally bad because you're not getting at the truth well we're also in this weird slippery thing when it comes to human beings and truth because it's so hard to tell who's telling the truth if two people see something like see a car accident and one person says well this lady ran the red light slammed into the car and then the person right next to us

76:43says no she didn't mhm this other guy ran the red light and and she hit him mm-hmm and this there's a lot of subjectivity in terms of like interpersonal relationships well there's also problem with just describing things and language in reality it's hot I don't know if you're telling the truth mm-hmm I don't know especially if it's just like you know I I leave I go to the bathroom I come back and Jamie says she just called me a piece of and you're like no I didn't like okay well who's right I don't know right I don't I'd literally don't have a mechanism to detect who said what it is not possible yeah so am I just gonna believe women or am I gonna believe the individual or am I gonna try to like figure this out oh my god do my detective work it's very tricky so when you're dealing with some certain accusations when it comes to human beings like this Chris Hardwick thing is

77:37an a perfect example that he was just reinstated yesterday by AMC and yeah that's a weird one because she wrote the it was an ex-girlfriend that really something about him yeah I arrived at that well she clearly didn't tell the truth about some aspects of their relationship she cheated on him and that's why he got rid of her hmm or broke up with her and then he also said he was just terrible boyfriend and he did but then there's videos of her talking about what an amazing boy for anyone while they were together about how he stayed with her in the hospital and slept by her bed and it's like and she's also she had a bunch a host of mental illnesses that she described in their video about like not being able to drive down the street with the windows open cuz she was worried that germs gonna get in her car and all and some of those she recovered from and some of

78:25them she didn't like it's and there's another problem with people when it comes to when they're talking about things they might not even be lying yeah they just might be they just might have a distorted perception of reality yeah that is another problem with human beings when it comes to any sort of interaction between two people especially after a breakup I think the way that a person can view the time they spent with someone can very much change based on you know their current situation or how that breakup happened 100% yeah on both sides mm-hmm the the real problem though is what we were saying is that human beings it's very difficult I can't read minds mm-hmm you can't read minds you can't look into memories so we're relying on a person's description and then we have to rely on what we know about them what how what we know about their ability to describe

79:15things accurately what we know about their perceptions of reality their delusions their their their clarity it's super tricky yeah I mean my rule of thumb would I would say to people is unless you know the two people I don't think you can ever really know what happened so in that case if say you leave and Jamie tells you I said something about you're probably gonna go with Jamie right because you know him so I would say this Jamie's a little crazy I'm like yeah I mean it's for sure if I didn't know you mm-hmm and and Jamie told me he did something up I would side with Jamie but even that's weird because if I'm not there I don't know if you say I didn't do anything yeah like maybe one day you'll be my best friend and maybe uh one day Jamie would turn out to be a psycho I was like remember when we used to think James okay he's crazy but that's the thing too I think sometimes with I

80:09do empathize with some women who say if this happens to them and people say well that's a nice guy I know that guy that's my buddy I've known forever but you didn't date him so how do you know you don't know right yeah you don't know god damn it it's tricky you know if you ever seen that episode of black dealer watch black hair I watched one episode so everyone tells me how amazing this show is and I think it is amazing but I saw one episode that really freaked me out so I wasn't talking about no it was the one about it was actually about a boy who was a pedophile and then he was being watched and blackmailed whoa creeped me out I didn't watch that one but but there's one called crocodile okay and it is easily the most disturbing episode of a television show I've ever watched in my life and it has to do with technology that allows people to read memories okay

80:59and I'll leave it at that no spoiler alerts here but until it's dark it stays with you after but this one does this one's dark I mean this well I mean I can't I can't I will give too much away if I talk about it but the concept is that you can they have a machine and they set this machine up and through this machine they can literally read your memories okay until that happens we really don't know and you know there's been things in my life where I looked back on it and I had a perception and then I went to the place where I grew up and I'll remember it looking like yeah I remember this being so close oh the streets right here this is where the houses oh and then you have to kind of like remap your memories like okay we got to clean these memories up and try to figure out what's accurate what's not mhm but then this what this is I'm just talking about like this the neighborhood

81:53where I grew up in but what about your adding in emotions then you adding in painful emotions because of breakups and perhaps suicidal thoughts and more time going by also yes time sure I mean it's been absolutely proven that eyewitness testimony is the least accurate piece of evidence that any investigator can ever use in terms of like trying to figure out what happened at the scene of a crime or anything involving any sort of trauma mm-hmm hard with people's minds yeah and I mean when we look at say the issue with me - and the sexual assault sexual harassment that I think also some people see this and they think I want to help this person so they might reinterpret their situation a way to say you know I also want to help this person well I think there's clearly without doubt been a lot of unchecked sexual harassment in the workplace yeah just I've always said this and this

82:52is not to say that men and women shouldn't work together and I'm not saying that any stretch I just want to get that other way really quick but when men and women do work together they're around each other all day mm-hm and people are sexually attracted to each other mhm and men are gross and it's just a fad like this guy that I was having this conversation with today we're talking about that I was like could you imagine being a girl and working in an office and guys trying to you all the time and there was saying stupid do you mean trying to get coffee and like we were talking about gay guys and he was saying like do when he was in the military which you have a problem with gay people he and he was really funny goes he goes I want the gay if I was working with a gay guy I'd want him to like me that way he tried to impress me and he'd do his job better and he'd be

83:36real nice to me and we're laughing about it but I was like okay that's true but if you were on a gay guy that was always trying to you and like maybe touched your ass when you bent over to pick up some paper or something like that like that would get real annoying and if your job relied on this guy liking you and approving you which a lot of women's jobs rely on creeps liking them and approving you it gets disgusting that's the reality that many women have lived with yeah for decades yeah I don't deny that yeah this is this is gonna shift I'm hoping I'm hoping that the even with the the far-reaching aspects of it we're all men are trash I'm hoping it's the tides gonna just sort of settle back in he's gonna instead of being over this way it's gonna come back over this way and just balance out in the middle a little bit and we'll get a better understanding of

84:27each other yeah that's my hope too and I mean I I hope that there's not so much damage done that's you know fixable at that point because of damage well that you will see I feel men nowadays are terrified to interact with women yeah especially in the workplace I think you should be careful anyway look I think we're all way too casual about getting intimate with people and I've been yeah guilty of it myself in my life at many times but I think you should get to know people a little bit by the promise people are horny you know and that's that's a real problem and then you hook up with crazy people or you have to keep working with them after yeah that's even worse people that have interoffice relationships yeah I know I know people who work in offices where it's strictly forbidden like you're not allowed and then and then I'm like well okay but what if you fall in love with someone in

85:18the office it wasn't the perfect person for you got to quit your job yeah I don't like businesses imposing that I think people should be able to make those decisions restricted I would never date anybody at work and I say that well that I don't are you married no I'm not married okay you have a boyfriend and no okay what if you met a guy that you worked with and he was amazing and he was single and you're single and you guys just got along great and he was respectful and he's intelligent he's funny and he's interesting and you like doing things with him but there are lots of men in this world who the out here it's not that's not true there is so many men in this world what why is it this one person I work with is the only one who's gonna be a match for me he's the only one you've ever met that's like that I don't think so I mean but the thing is I'm very career-oriented so

86:10that could be part of why I miss my agent it's racist to say that Asians are determined but in that way I guess I'm a little bit more risk-averse I'm not going to jeopardize my career over a person that I meet that I like what if he was one quiz job well then we could talk but I we I be like you're gonna you're gonna quit your job for a woman I don't know you loser what are you gonna do if we have kids yeah yeah I see both sides but then I see okay now imagine being a woman who works in the office with this guy who's in love with this woman and then they have a relationship and then all sudden her career starts doing a little bit better that's the thing you know other women will women like me say well wait we're not sleeping with people to get to the top is that fair well that is the world of the actress it is and that is the world of the casting couch yes this is the seat this is the

87:08not-so-secret aspect of the casting couch that many many many people are aware of yeah is that these women some of these men and we're not talking about rape we're talking about women who chose to engage in willing full sex with people who transactional yes transactional is a great great way to put it there's a lot of women who I know who are actresses who were approached for by some certain types of men who are producers or executives in certain ways and they said no and then girls that they know said yes and their careers advanced yeah and this was a thing where people were aware of it there's it's there's a power dynamic that exists when there's a boss and then there's an underling yeah the person who's working for that boss and whether it's a producer and an actress or whether it's a CEO and an employee when they engage in some sort of a transactional sexual

88:09relationship mm-hmm that makes everyone uncomfortable yeah but how do you stop that you think it's do you think it's the industry's job or why would you eat that out I think corporations pretty much crossed the board now just fire people when they do that there was a recent CEO of some large high-profile company who had to step down because he was involved in a consensual sexual relationship with somebody do you remember who that was it was real big something super recent but it was there was no crime but it was consensual sexual relationship with someone who worked for him was it in town yeah that long like you think about it if you go home say if you work eight hours a day and it takes you an hour to drive to work tasty an hour drive home that's ten hours and nobody works eight hours a day if you really want me right you want nine and ten so it's like half

89:05the day is gone yeah you get home you're exhausted you know your husband's exhaust you're staring each other you were together like three or four hours you have a meal you go to sleep you get up in the morning you go do it again you're with those people at work more than you're even with the people that you live with mm-hmm you know that's really a band that's your waking hours with by the time you get home you tired and if you go to the gym afterwards well there's an hour and a half gone there you might see each other for an hour a night ya know and especially if people are single I mean obviously that's a little bit easier for that to happen as well yeah it becomes a big part of your social interaction how many people there their social circle is primarily the people that they work with yeah real common right yeah yeah so I mean I think if it's a consensual

89:53relationship there should be anything wrong there but I can see how in this climate they're all these other you know ways of looking at being imposed on it so is that really consensual if it's someone who is your boss but then imagine say if you and Jamie work together okay and you guys had a consensual sexual relationship and you both were on the same level you both in does not it's not like anybody has any power but then you break up mm-hmm you know and then Jamie comes over to me like you know that doctor's invention and then you come to me and you're like you know Jamie though you know he looks like a good guy but when you start date now he's a so much Perkin yeah yeah people need to leave that at home dad well it's a big definitely becomes a problem in the workforce when you you're you're not just friends friends is fine mm-hmm but when you start having sex with each other

90:41that's when things get crazy you know very few people are able to separate sex and emotions with friendship very very few people that's yeah probably that's one of the things that's admirable about these people that are willing to have these open relationships it's like whoa like you can I know I know guys like hang out with other guys who their girlfriends yeah I'm like Jesus you're a better man than me well some of them like that though like if they're masochistic they like the idea of their woman being having sex with another guy but you didn't want to use the word cook I like how you went with masochistic technical term - we can call them cooks Oh Chuck is compromised word though yeah isn't it yeah there's a whole other stuff that comes with that yeah it gets squirrely I thought it always meant that it it always meant like cuckold like you want to watch men have sex with your

91:39wife yeah but then it got to where what is it what is what is a so basically a beta male beta male but there's so many different versions of it now it's it's become really freely tossed around like a beach ball at a concert he's throwing cuck around these days yeah I mean I think that's fine if that's why you're into no judgment there yeah it's into being cuckolded yeah if that's what you're into good luck with that just okay a man who's desperate for acceptance approval and affection from women oh now it's different this desperation has led to the compromise of his beliefs and values the desecration of his dignity and self-worth and his inability to stand up for himself there's a 4chan right this and what he deserves as a human being example loyalty fidelity and honesty and a romantic relationship okay okay look at look at the example they gave hold on

92:41a second I know John's always wanted a girlfriend but since him and Mary started dating he's become a she spends all of his money and flirts openly with openly with other men I can tell it bothers him but he's so afraid of losing her that he doesn't say anything that's a sounds like a male feminist also I can't believe you went there I don't yeah that male feminist thing I've known a few that were real creeps that were fake creeps you know they're like on the side they what they're doing was they were they're posturing as an alternative to these men who don't want monogamous relationships or would break the woman's heart or not willing to compromise and bend the will of the woman mm-hmm they put these women on a platform and worship these women and I am the alternative and I'm the powerful alternative and these men are and then they try to on those men and take those but all does is make

93:47those men appear even more attractive to these women secretly these men these feminist men and these women have these weird relationships where it doesn't work and they're never sexual or if they are sexual the women aren't really sexually attracted to him so they withhold sex and just it gets super weird yeah obviously I just generalized a lot about a giant group of people's relationships but what I've seen it's just it's they they don't run fast you can't pick things up they're not attractive so they tried their little weasels they're trying to find another way in yeah yeah I mean I think men who not all men who call themselves feminists or male feminists so in that I think men who ascribe to women being equal that's a good thing yeah I think a lot of guys will say yeah I'm feminists because they think that's the right thing to do that's the socially

94:40acceptable thing and that's the way we should be but then the ones who run around and say you know really really push it and make that their identity and really sell themselves as male feminists those are the guys I have an issue with because like you said they're sneaky they know what they're doing yeah they're not being honest well you could almost always tell like you you see them there they're a type mm-hmm you know they're just they're an unattractive type they're not attractive to women and they try to figure out a way mm-hmm like how am I gonna do this what's gonna be the way yeah I gotta figure out a way to stand out and this is the way I'm gonna just what what do these women want to hear they want to hear that I'm gonna say that yeah egalitarian is great you know someone who believes in equality is great but as soon as you stat like you're proclaiming

95:29yourself to be more interested in the opposite gender and more supportive of them than males and even though you are a male mm-hmm that should be a red flag that's a giant red flag you should be into humans mm-hmm I like people mm-hmm I like people I like I'm gay I like I'm straight I like people I like when they're nice you're nice to me I'm nice to you that's what I like I don't want you get discriminated against in any way shape or form yeah but I don't want to pretend that one group is better than other groups except Asians when it comes to Harvard the crazy thing is with these guys though you see there has been a trend where they actually have a lot to hide and they usually are misogynistic and they usually do abuse women what's the scary thing I think what happens is there's a certain amount of resentment that from living this sort of like fake life and having these fake

96:23beliefs and doing so just to get to the approval of women mm-hmm you know and then when it doesn't work out there's anger resentment and this just just or I think some guys put it on because it's a way of overcompensating for their own guilt yeah that's true too probably yeah it's probably a lot of different reasons why men become feminists and very few of them are good unless they're just their idea of what it means is different than my idea what it means my idea it means a little that little sneaky mm-hmm that's my idea you know because I've just seen so many of them yeah it's like look I'm sure some bank robbers are really romantic interesting poets who just decide this is a great way to make money mm-hmm there's got to be one you know but most of them are criminals yeah right and this is like how I feel about male feminists like I'm sure there a bunch of them out there that are

97:12really good guys and maybe through the influence of the people they've been around they've chosen to identify as a male feminist and this seems to be a good way to show that they support women and even if they have to support women over men look women have been over for so long I'm more than willing to do that and they do it with good intentions that's entirely possible but a lot of inner creepy little dudes that are trying to get laid and they they're not attractive to women so then trying to figure out a way to become attractive to women and they don't have the confidence to just go well aren't we all equal aren't we all just all humans or we're all different or work on yourself to make yourself more attractive to women instead of deceiving them one of my all-time favorite tweets that I read was the guy saying I'm not going to describe myself as a feminist until women tell me

97:59that I'm doing feminism correctly he's like more feminist than regular feminists he's like so feminine 2,000 times ya can't be a feminist to women tell me on my feminist mistress mistress please tell me that dude's got a ball gag on right now he's like tightening it down he's putting himself in the shackles but then there's women like that too there's women that pretend to be one of the guys like that girl yeah there's always the one of the guys girl people can sense it though mm-hmm like I think other guys can tell when a male when a guy's not sincere about being a male feminist and the same with girls can tell oh yeah you know the big red flag with girls girls who don't have girlfriends mm-hmm they're just friends with guys they get along with guys better yeah but you do I had a friend of mine his dating a girl like that and she all she had was male friends I was like

99:02dude I might get out now like this is not gonna work so tell me what does that mean girls don't like her yeah girls don't trust her you can't find any girls yeah that's crazy that it's crazy I'm not saying you shouldn't have some guy friends mm-hmm but all your friends are guys yeah that's a red flag no I would agree with that and any guy you have a straight guy and all his friends are girls yeah no I know is happening here right I just don't get along with guys guys are I don't like the way they talk about women oh okay all of them all of them yeah come on were you hanging out dude you don't like any guys okay yeah it seems weird so what did your friend do oh he got around on yeah yeah yeah she was all those guys that's gonna say I was gonna say yeah of course we're the writing's on the wall hmm yeah it was ugly too the way it went down was like whoo but that's how it is you know

100:07I mean look people people are always trying to find their way in like what's what's what's my way to get the most acceptance my way to get the most happiness my way and I mean it's fairly unrelated but not necessarily to what we're talking about about gender dysphoria about some people choosing that as a path to get a lot of attention I mean I think there's many things that people do to get a lot of attention there's things that people do to stand out as typically unique right we dye their hair paint yeah purple or blue or wear certain things or do some piercings and these things that people do to like get attention and fit in and find their niche and just do something where it makes them feel like they have some clout in this community of humans yeah I hope some find other people too who are like them yeah yeah and also like it's there signaling to each other we're all

101:01equal we're all similar we're all we're all in this kind of clan we're Outsiders you know it's fascinating I'm all for that I'm all for people finding each other and you know self-expression it's only when it is having negative implications for other people that's when it's a problem all for sure yeah yeah that's yeah when when it's not just a bunch of people finding each other but a bunch of people looking at the other people and attacking them for not being similar mm-hmm yeah yeah but that's one of the things people do to sort of affirm their identity right you attack the people that oppose that identity or do people need to do that though wish they didn't yeah but they do so often you got to wonder like objectively if you were from another planet and you were watching these patterns take place mm-hmm Wow little organism this weird thing that it does yeah

101:54going back to the transgender bullying I guess my issue with with all of that intimidation is the fact that these kids are not getting the help that they need and so if we look at something like I was saying earlier about if it's a little boy who says he's a girl he's likely going to grow up to be a gay man you can't say that now and so all the scientific research suggests that all the studies ever done suggests that but you can't say that because it really upsets transgender activists and so you have all these children now we're transitioning who I think in 5-10 years are going to regret it isn't this sort of similar to what we're talking about earlier is that historically trans people have been so discriminated against that it shifted so hard the other way yeah it's gone the other way like just we were talking about in terms of sexism and then harassment in the

102:48workplace and sexual harassment of rape so was so one-sided that now it's pushing the opposite way like I read a tweet once by this woman that said here's an unpopular opinion and she was an editor of a magazine sure here's an unpopular opinion I'm not even remotely concerned with men being falsely accused of sexual harassment or assault mm-hmm and she was attacked yeah Brett Weinstein retweeted it and and Pope pointed out how wrong this idea was and how crazy this is to to take allies who are falsely accused of sexual harassment or assault and not being concerned about that you're you're only concerned with your own gender yeah this is a this is a perfect example of an intelligent person that's thinking in this really crazy discriminatory way because in her mind her team had been over so many times that it's time to over that other team if we lose a couple of people hey we shoot some

103:44drones into some apartment buildings that a few civilians die at least we got the terrorists yeah yeah and I mean I understand that like the anger that comes with that I think for the people who are the most militant so not to say that of this particular person but I think of women in particular who are the most militant about this movement I think they really just have been hurt badly by men and it's a way for them to express that but you can't say that no you say that these women that are angry about men that they've been hurt by men so now they discriminate against large groups of men mm-hmm because of that pain if you do that like you're your self hater you're yeah internalized misogyny yeah yeah which is sad I mean but you can't actually argue with it where does this balance out though does it balance out to a point in our children's future our children's

104:37children's future where this is no longer concerned like cannibalism is no long answer or very very slight concern you know where it's an aberration where it's a very very rare thing I mean is that's the whole the ultimate goal right is that we reach a point in our society where we do not care if someone's gay we care if you're a girl we do not care if you're a boy and we're not mad if you're not attracted to us yeah I mean that would be a wonderful thing right if we get to a point where people are just comfortable in their own skin you mean this craziness like where is it eventually going to lead us yeah I mean culturally across the board whether it's male versus female whether it's transversus straight all of this mm-hmm gay versus straight whether you know progressive versus conservative I would love it if we got to this point with all this chaos and calamity and arguing back

105:33and forth it would be fantastic if we can get to a balance point yeah no I agree and I do think we're coming up to that point because more and more I see people are saying that they're not okay with this I've in terms of the things I write about people reach out to me and say you know what I'm so glad you said that I agree with you even the response to wrong speak I really thought that people were gonna lose their minds in terms of the things that we said but you know it's been very positive feedback so I think more people than you might think are actually on board with you know wanting to come to a middle ground and they're not okay with this the extreme craziness that we're seeing so I think that's a good sign it's just a matter of waiting it out I hope you're right and I hope that we understand why things get extreme and that as human beings we can look at it with compassion

106:24and say like you were saying like the women that are so angry against men it's not just because for no reason something had to happen to them like I had a friend and he's not an attractive man and over the time that I knew him he became more and more resentful to women to the point where he would just openly say up misogynistic things about women and it was weird to watch but it was it was one of those things where I was like oh I see he associates women with paint yeah and he associates them with just wanting his money or trying to him over and this is his perception this is how he looks at women okay I get it yeah which is sad you know in case women obviously not all women are like that just like not all men are the men that these women have encountered in life and you can't generalize from one person to everybody no you can't but when we look at it with compassion I mean the

107:26hopefully the healthy people the people that aren't in that state of anger and resentment that they look at it with compassion they go oh okay I see why this woman would write that tweet she had a bunch of up shitty dudes yeah and that she doesn't need to be mobbed over her tweet either trust no men yeah or man yeah that kind of it's like okay I get i get where that's from mm-hmm this thing is entirely too much conflict out there yeah but you know I think our society almost thrives on it I would say the media definitely thrives on it because if you're not angry and upset about something what are people gonna do yeah I mean look at Twitter I was gonna say social media to Facebook's the best because Facebook those are allowed to write forever paragraphs of I swear do they have jobs some of these people I click on the more you click on the more thing and there's way more you think there's

108:28just gonna be a two lines but it's like six pages yeah I think that that that is a real problem and I think one of the more unique things about Twitter is that it limited you to 140 characters and then people complain so they gave you 280 and then so that's too much sometimes it was as a comic 140 was great because it made you really it made you really invest the economy of words you really had to make sure that you got your point out as quickly as possible it's great for joke writing it's the it's a good way to like really trim down the fat in your jokes but it's not a good way to express ideas and that's one of the good things about Twitter is they have this thing where you can reply to your your tweet and then reply to that or ply to that yeah and they all fit in together yeah I like that but I don't like it sometimes because sometimes people just drone on and this

109:28you know there's this is a first draft ooh yeah it's too much nonsense in there do you get there with your DMS too that people just send you a massive block I don't read them I barely skimmed through my day I can't I follow too many people yeah one of the good things is I get a lot of interesting things in my feed one of the bad things I'll get 500 dm's a day we can't do that I saw someone wrote a tweet that said if minds if you don't like write two sentences for the dam I'm not going to read it and that's their pen tweet wow that's aggressive I read as many as I can I just can't read them all there's no way yeah it just it's like you can't reply to everybody either like people say welcome you reply to my own mentions I can't yeah and you can't like like all of their stuff either no it's too many it's too many bus I don't want to read people stuff it's just I don't have you

110:23don't have the time and also you're running the risk of encountering too much negativity and then also things that you disagree with that you wanna like I should say that that's that's maybe true I'm gonna tell this guy this is what actually happened yeah you don't even know history I don't want to do that I don't want to argue with people about random facts or science or anything I look at and I'm like okay this is but you have you been mobbed before you have oh yeah what's been the worst oh one of the big ones was about trans fighter I remember that yeah that was a hilarious one yeah cuz I'm like you guys can kiss my ass you're out of your mind you guys are out of your mind if you think that a man who has been a man for 30 years and has taken female hormones for two is the same hmm you put Brock Lesnar chopped his dick off and put him in a dress that guy's gonna maul through

111:17the women's heavyweight division like nothing you've ever seen in your life yeah because we're built different and it's just a fact and then anyone who tries to argue that is crazy and there are there's certainly standouts in terms of women who are like much more muscular higher bone density particularly african-american women a very high bone density but there's a different shape to their hips this there's the the size of the hands the size of the shoulders things are different that and also the imprinting of years and years of testosterone it's just there was a great article by this mmm board-certified endocrinologist who went over all of the all the things that separate men from women which should exclude them from competing in combat sports against women and this woman was called a trans Fobo endocrinologist idiot she's talking about the science and she's also

112:15talking about the science of one of the things they talk about is how women you know or trans woman once they transition to being a woman they're basically biologically almost exactly the same as woman she was like no not only that but the bone density is retained by taking estrogen which is what the problem with women when they have osteoporosis they lose they're losing estrogen they lose bone mass well the estrogen actually helps you retain bone so when a man transitions to a woman and then starts taking estrogen it's actually helping retain the bone mass he would have lost by not having testosterone and then on top of that reaction times that reaction times are several tenths of a second faster in general for women than they are for eat or for men rather than they are for even professional athlete women so these all these variables yeah that need to be

113:05taken into consideration when you're allowing someone to do a sport and we're not just talking about bike racing we're not talking about you know something or someone non-contact we're talking about the most contact we're talking about fighting there's there's benefits that certain people have there's there's physical attributes at PD there's variables inside the genders right there's some men that have gigantic physical advantages over other men mm-hmm and all of those are taking into you you you there's no like even playing field when it comes to even inter-gender competition or you know male versus male competition there's no real level playing field so the best we can do is say okay you guys got to be the same weight just make that yeah I get the same weight and as close as you can get but but even in that there's people that are just physically they're just they're

114:00just gonna be better yes no there's no getting around it there's gonna be better than athletes there's they're gonna have better genetics you know there's nothing you do about that but one thing we can do is we can keep women from getting beaten up by men mm-hmm and and men who transition to being women and if you think that's fair you're crazy and it's just not it just doesn't make any sense and the arguments for it are so shitty and so they're so riddled with progressive speak mmm-hmm that they're trying to pretend that this is a woman now this is not a woman this is a trans woman this is a male she has a Y chromosome she transitioned to being a female now she's a trans woman and if you choose to fight her and you're a woman and you know that she's a trans woman I'm totally fine with that but that was not what was going on here what was going on here was this woman who

114:53used to be a man for 32 years and to being a woman and it didn't tell anybody and thought to different women who thought they were fighting a woman and got smashed badly in Georgia I was watching you it was like watching a man fight a woman that's what I was watching I was like this isn't like particularly she wasn't particularly skillful mm-hmm it wasn't like she had like some unbelievable background in judo like Ronda Rousey or something like that it wasn't that you were just literally watching a former man beat up women mm-hmm we never had the the benefit of 30 years plus of testosterone in their body what do you think the solution should be then I don't know but I was fascinated by watching the the mob come after me for that well yeah I was like yeah this is this is adorable it was fascinating about it was here's something that I I mean I'm not a fizzy elects pert in Physiology or

115:49endocrinology but I'm a martial arts expert mm-hmm I've been doing it my whole life like I know the difference I've trained with women world champions and watch them get mauled by men who are not very good mm-hmm it's just a fact yeah especially when it comes to striking you know there's more of a gap in jujitsu or the gap rather closes in jujitsu because skill and technique take precedent over physical strength but goddamn it when it comes to striking you could get a man who's been doing it for six months but just happens to have a lot of fast twitch muscle fiber and it just knows how to hit things hard and he he'll a woman up it's not good especially when it comes to kickboxing and kicking and punching there's so there's so many advantages and to say that those advantages are immediately cut out of the picture as soon as you transition to being a woman and within two years you

116:45should be able to fight women in a cage and not tell them you're a woman I was like this is insanity yeah so that was the that was the big mob that came after me hmm I think it's interesting that in this because it is pitting people who would call themselves feminists against transgender activists and it's basically women are being lost in the mix so you can't say certain things like on what planet would it be okay for someone who is born male to fight a woman but in this case because this person who's born male identifies as female you can't call that into question it and also there was a real problem in Texas the other way where there there what they were doing is being prejudiced against trans people to the point where they wouldn't let a girl transitioning to being a boy wrestle with boys yeah they made her wrestle with girls while she was taking

117:35testosterone yes like you guys are out of your mind like you you're not even recognizing that she wants to compete with boys which is a disadvantage for her or him yeah let him compete with boys because this is a different thing but then even then a lot of boys are saying well look I'm not taking testosterone I just have testosterone would if her testosterone is higher than my testosterone because she's taking exogenous testosterone this is kind of crazy yeah it's there's a lot of new ground that's going on here my concern as a martial arts expert is when you are using ideology to push this this progressive notion that you know a trans woman is exactly the same as a woman and you're getting women beat the up because of them hmm and this is what I felt in this is what I saw and they wouldn't have to be hard for like a year or two but then it all went away what's

118:35the worst thing they said about you I didn't read it I read a little bit of it I was like I really didn't even hurt my feelings yeah cuz I was like it's just so stupid it's like do you know a woman who's got a hand that looks like that yeah find one find one because if I took estrogen I'd still have these and that's not fair yeah it's just not I don't care I don't care what anybody says it's just not mm-hmm I mean even a woman with big hands they're not that big they're not like Brock Lesnar's hands is it there's a difference there's a difference yeah the difference in the shape of the jaws the difference in so there's so many differences and men to women and there's so many women that used to be men that transition to being women that are now dominating these sports so these women feel like they're being over looking weightlifting through this Australian weightlifter who's trans

119:25woman who's competing as a woman and his breaking records left and right here but he's like this is crazy she's an inspiration yeah no she's a guy she used to be a guy and now she's breaking these women's record it's like what are we doing this is crazy yeah but to play devil's advocate please do didn't file in Fox get beaten by yeah because she sucks that's really what it is Ashlee evans-smith is good okay sure yeah so good she listened there's a lot of women that would beat a lot of men yeah women who are not taking anything who would beat a lot of men and it's happened Jermaine to Randa me who was a super high level women's MMA fighter is one the 145-pound world title beat Holly Holm she fought a man in a kickboxing bout knocked him out it's cuz she's a beast yeah she's really good and really technical super strong and just much better than a guy who wasn't on her

120:33level but she's just super exceptional mm-hmm but there's also women who fought men who were world champions who got knocked out who well there was a woman from god dammit she was a female boxer from Holland her name escapes here right now I'm she was she was a woman that they were always trying to match her up with Christy Martin back when Christy Martin the Coal Miner's Daughter was a famous god damn it why can't I remember her name but she was an elite female boxer and she got knocked out by a man it was ugly and the guy she knocked out the guy who knocked her out really wasn't very good yeah he just clanged her on the jaw and Kayode her but it was disturbing to watch yeah but someone wasn't disturbing when Jermaine to random he knocked out the guy it was yeah the you can't you're always going to have people that are higher level skill and Ashlee

121:31evans-smith who's competed successful in the UFC she's very tough mm-hmm and she beat Val Fox yeah and Susan you know I'm not against Fallon Fox fighting women that want to fight her not against that if they want I'm not against women fighting men who want to do I'm not a man I'm not against people riding bulls I'm not against people bungee jumping yeah should be able do it I want but don't pretend that you're exactly the same as a biological woman yeah why the do we have tests then why why what is it what is a chromosome mm-hmm what our genetics what is it is it all we're just gonna give it all away for ideology and what about women yeah like what this idea of being completely progressive and in looking at things and and promoting equality that's wonderful but are you promoting equality for women mm-hmm like what about the women what about a woman like you what about a

122:26woman who's slight thin what are you supposed to do yeah how much do you weigh I'm not gonna tell you I'm thin though yeah let's pretend you're in the hundred and five pound week yes do you feel like you can compete with 105-pound man no that seems yeah this seems ridiculous Yeah right well it seems to me that we have to accept the fact that there's some physical differences when the consequences are being gravely injured and this is what martial arts are all about I'm trying to hurt you and I shouldn't have natural physical advantages that come from having a y-chromosome in 30 plus years of testosterone in my body that just seems to be obvious to me yeah and I didn't understand why but that was a hill that I was ready to die on I was like you guys can off good for you for that but you see that they've kind of left you alone now right because I do this because I because I

123:19can say things like this about it and I because it makes sense yeah and because when other people hear about it there are rational people they go what what's happening wait a minute that's a guy she was a guy for 30 years like that's not right and the vast majority of people who even support trans rights including friends of mine who are trans with me on this like yeah that's crazy have you heard the term turf am i surf and turf term no oh turf isn't ERF is trans exclusionary radical feminists so this is a new slur that's being used against women who will say trans women are not women because they were not born women trans exclusionary radical feminists you would kind of be a turf in this situation cuz you're advocating for women and the safety of women and saying that people who were born male but identifies female but not the same as people who are born female yes but that

124:18doesn't mean that I'm discriminatory no but it's a word that they use to try and discredit you good luck have fun with that I don't care see this is the problem but the thing about this is I don't care because I really don't have any hate in my heart mm-hmm and I don't have any discrimination in my heart like I don't think most of us do well I can't speak for everybody some do but some do I'm sure I'm sure if you were trying look if you have a thousand people and a hundred those people are a to you it's gonna feel like a lot of people right so if you're a trans person and you're may have seen horrific things written to trans people online I've seen it I've seen I understand this is real discrimination but I understand that you have to understand you have to appreciate who your actual allies and people who are rational people who actually care about you and who disagree

125:10with you on one very particular thing and this is the only place where I disagree it's combat sports it's because it's my area of expertise yeah I've been doing it since I was a kid like you can't tell me that there's not differences I've watched men and women fight my whole life I know there's a difference and I know that from talking to endocrinologists and people who are experts in the human anatomy that there's just physiological differences that are insurmountable they just are I've seen men and women hit the back it's a very different thing yeah I mean I get where people are coming from the people who are upset by this because I think by acknowledging someone that someone was not born the size so they identify as it's almost like saying pointing out to them that they're different but they are different well yeah they are different but I can see how that can be upsetting for someone

125:59who identifies as the opposite sex yeah you know what I can see how it's upsetting if you're short and you want to identify as being tall hmm you know what if I wanted to pretend that I was seven feet tall you'd be like Joe you're 5/8 like are you an why are you saying I'm a 5/8 but you are so if I say you're a trans woman which means you're a born a man you have a Y chromosome like we're you're a piece of how you pointing that out well that's what you are yeah it's not that you're negative are you are people who are dwarves or is that is it evil to say that a dwarf is a dwarf or a little person or whatever you whatever phrase you want to use are we supposed to acknowledge that there's an issue like if someone is born with a handicap are you supposed to is that a fact are you allowed to discuss it as a fact if you have autism am I allowed to bring up the fact that you are on the

126:54spectrum mm-hmm or am I supposed to ignore it yeah is it discrimination if you talk about reality if someone has a deformity are you allowed to discuss it or is it discrimination to discuss reality because what are we doing with our language what are we doing with the way we describe the actual things that are that exist in the world and if we're not describing them in accurate terms because we're trying to somehow another stopped people from getting hurt feelings what are these feelings based on these delusional perceptions of reality and why we reinforcing these delusional perceptions of reality because it seems to me that this kind of language in this kind of exclusionary the inability to use certain words and the inability to describe things accurately correctly and in many cases scientifically it hurts everybody yeah I agree with that I don't think facts

127:47themselves are hateful I think people who use facts to justify discrimination that's where the problem is and that's where the efforts should be going because when you start to deny facts where does that leave you where do you draw the line in that case absolutely but I think it's there's something kind of cool about it that there are trans people and what's cool about it is that the world is weird you know and I'm I'm not happy that they get a lot of hate but I'm kind of happy that they exist mm-hmm I wish they could just be women I wish you could just like hit a switch and you really wish you're born a woman BAM you're a woman but I suspect that even if you could do that some people would rather just be trans some people would like there's no how people that I know that are trans that also have dicks mm-hmm yeah and they want to keep the dick yeah and they're like okay

128:39like what's going on here and you you know that you're transphobic if you're a straight heterosexual male and you're not willing to date a trans woman with a dick but you know what it is it's actually a sexual preference for for men who will date trans women who which is retaining their penis that's what is called the literature they decide not to get surgery it's actually a particular sexual preference for the people that are attracted to that yeah particular track it's called gain Andra more fo philia whoa someone tell Jim Norton nothing wrong with out ooh you know nothing yeah nothing do what you do it but this is the thing the difference between a man and a woman a trans man a trans woman and then someone who could actually be a woman who transitions I think we're gonna get to a point within you know whether it's a hundred years or five hundred years where we can use

129:33things like the the future version of CRISPR or whatever comes down the line next some scientific innovation that's gonna allow people to literally transition yeah I think it's gonna happen yeah and when that happens I suspect they're gonna say that word again guy names are more fulfill yeah it's gonna be a bunch of those yeah it's gonna be a bunch of people like man I'd rather just stay a check on the dick I'll take it yeah well gain Andrew Murphy philia is the preference for a male to female people who have retained their penis go for it yeah nothing wrong it's all good it's all good it's only when you tell other men that you have to conform to this I think that's where the problem is I think people should be allowed to be into what they're into yes and the idea that your transfer like I've seen this man I've seen articles written where they're on men that are not willing to date yeah

130:22women with penises they call it the no sorry the cotton the cotton sealing is the other way around when it's a male to female person and women don't want to date them lesbians don't want to date them because they have a penis what do they call it the cotton sealing because it's like the glass ceiling except it has to do with underwear Jesus Christ so lesbians who don't want to date trans women I like it I like that this world is weird yeah I do yeah this is where I think I get why people would see what I've said and think that it's transphobic I get like Who I am I get that it's a problem I get just looking at me it's a problem I mean I'm I'm a cage fighting commentator you know I'm a dirty stand-up comedian this I mean I seem like I would be your enemy but people shouldn't assume right like you're your own person so you might look a certain way yeah but that's just what people do

131:31it's the same way a guy looks at a chick with a dick and goes yikes what do we got going on here I just think as me as an individual as a human being one thing I like about it is I like things that are weird I like things that defy the standard definition I'm the same I think it's more interesting it's far more interesting yeah it's a farm interesting when you talk to neuroscientist who wear as a Playboy t-shirt right you're a weirdo yeah do you like it yeah it's cool it's a cool clever you're a weirdo I am a weirdo yeah we shine that relates to your sense of humor too though because my sense of humor is really dry and I feel that's part of you know what the way I look at the world and why I appreciate the world the way oh yeah for sure I embrace the weirdness I really do I love it I love that things are strange I do I think it's interesting I really do I think

132:30so I think everything's interesting I mean I and I try to cultivate that I really do I go out of my way to try to look at things with fresh eyes and especially because I smoke a lot of pot and so whenever I do that I kind of always have a new way of looking at like oh I never even thought about it that way but that's one of the things that I really like about marijuana and I tried I've tried to explain that to people that don't smoke pot I got a conversation with Ted Nugent about that mm-hmm and one of the things because he had this perception that people smoked pot or lazy and they're in there dwells like dude I can't have enough jobs I've silly dude just so many super high-functioning I'm always doing something I'm not lazy but I get the benefit that I get out of it is a benefit that is not often it's not a it's not often promoted and that benefit is there's something good about being

133:29nervous there's something good about what people call paranoia there's something good about heightened perspective that is brought upon by psychedelics or by marijuana where you are forced to re-examine what you've taken for granted mm-hmm and that's what I like about it and so what I like about one of the things that I like about smoking pot besides the fact that I believe it makes me more compassionate it makes it it instills a better sense of community it makes me more friendly and more loving and it definitely does that but it also makes me look at things with fresh eyes and appreciate the weirdness mm-hmm the weird like I genuinely love it when I see like some girly do you know Bailey Jay is uh yeah trans woman with a giant dick she's got pictures of her dick is Jamie gonna pull one up right now I don't think you can will you kicked off YouTube but I love

134:25it I like the fact that it's real doesn't bother me yeah happy yeah I think it's fun are you gonna answer more fulfilling no no I'm not but I like the fact that they exist yeah I do that's acceptance and I like the fact that people like them and I like the fact that it makes certain people happy if it makes I'm happy or people that are attracted to them happy I really do like it I don't I don't like definitions I don't like I don't like restrictions you know so where people would get an incorrect assumption is my radical stance against this trans woman fighting other women because I recognize that as being unfair mm-hmm and not well because they're suppression of the debate as well yeah it's one thing if you could talk about it openly well it's also something that I'm an expert in mm-hmm so I'm like uh stop don't don't don't try to compare this to tennis yeah cuz even in

135:24tennis it wasn't fair yeah but this is a different thing it is it's a radically different thing it's interesting because I heard you talk about this I don't know if it was your interview with Josh Barnett but when you first get into the cage you don't know what the other person's gonna be like until you start fighting and I just imagine you don't know if you go in and you don't know that someone was born male how that's a very big disadvantage I think there's a propensity for violence that exists in the mind of a man that I just don't know if it's the same in most women I just think I don't know how much of that I don't know if you turn me into a woman how much of that you would squeeze out I don't know but I know there's a switch that men have because I've seen it go off I've seen I've seen I've probably seen more people get up in real life than 99.9% of people that have ever

136:24lived other than like you know people lived in Roman times and yeah we get chopped up by swords but people in modern time we can charge them like fisticuffs people getting head kicked and beaten down with elbows I probably seen more of that than almost anyone that's ever lived probably a small group of people like a thousand people on the planet that have seen as many people get up personally as I have so I did you did you you date a chunk you you get a sense of what you're seeing you get a sense of and you you understand there's there's a there's there's a technical violence that women are capable of for sure I mean especially like extreme examples like Chris cyborg who's like super violent yeah or when Holly Holm head kicked Ronda Rousey and then hammer fists hit her while she was unconscious super violent but also very a technical violation and then there's an extreme

137:20over-the-top masculine violence that I've seen that's it's even more ferocious mhm there's there's something to it that is it's another level this and and this is not saying that men are better than women this is not this is just I'm saying there's a thing that men do there's a reason why men cause all wars men cause all wars women are suiting up and going into battle and and and trying to conquer as a giant you know a million strong group of women soldiers invading a foreign army no this is not happening this is a male behavior testosterone it is and it's it's also there's something about males this this switch there's a violent switch that exists it exists in a very dark way women are capable of shooting people and stabbing people and doing all these things just don't get me wrong not saying that but it does not happen in the same numbers that happens with men

138:16it just doesn't hmm and I think that this is something that also has to be taken into consideration when you talk about men versus women like it's a there it's a different thing and people who don't think it's a different thing have probably never been punched in the face by a guy yeah you know or seen guys punch guys in the face or been around it enough we realize it's a different thing you know I've seen some awesome women fights awesome women fights amazing super technical even very violent but goddamn there's a different there's a difference it's just not the same thing ya know I would definitely agree with that and most people would but if in today's climate in certain circles that would be considered transphobic or maybe even sexist mmm-hmm well there's also this narrative that women because they need to be like men and some level women have to be as strong as men and you've

139:08I've seen this where they will play published pieces saying women are as strong as men physically strong that's not even true it's not true well it's not only noted not true it's you can demonstrate it like scientifically it's not true you look at the data in terms of what men have lifted what what they can do mm-hmm like this is this guy this woman who used to be a man who's now competing in weightlifting in Australia look everybody's going crazy over this one it's crazy yeah it doesn't make any sense that they're allowing this this is so nonsensical if you want to have trans look the transgender Olympics go for do that but to try to pretend until we come up with some sort of a way like with CRISPR or whatever we talked about before where you can actually turn a man into a woman turn a woman into a man until it's like real clean we look at it we go yep we just did the

140:03chromosome test you've got a y chromosome now and you've erased 30 years of testosterone and you know a man now is built like you right yeah then we're good that we're good now it's an actual woman yeah until then man you're dealing with some hard core variables mm-hmm and to not to be in denial of those variables is silly and I'm gonna I'm gonna stand against it every time because I think it's I see what it is mm-hmm I mean this is it's like a religious ideology you're you're you're purposely ignoring facts do you feel like most people in the industry agree with you or how do they feel yeah oh yeah oh yeah the people who don't is a minor group and they're all like super progressive left-wing left-leaning and some of them were scared to talk about it I was gonna say yeah I've got other people aren't as vocal well they just didn't want to get the the blowback

140:59that's all it is but in terms of like fighters it was like a hundred percent I mean Ashlee evans-smith is a beast for taking that fight and even tougher for winning but then again she went into the UFC she she's in a UFC level fighter yeah which is there's there's a big difference you know and what she was kidding me if you look at like the Alber of competition that she's fought guys like Raquel Pennington our girls excuse me like Raquel Pennington sorry Raquel and look at who found Fox's fighting when she was fighting you know lower level competitions that's a giant leap between Raquel Pennington and someone who is on these amateur circuits and Raquel Pennington beat Ashlee evans-smith crazy fight was submitted her with a bulldog choke with like one second to go or screaming it was nuts covered in blood chaos right but this is like super elite world

141:57championship level fighting that's the difference yeah it's just different you know yeah so there was a lot of people that supported me but I knew I was right you know we know that other people are secretly agreeing with you not even secretly they just didn't want to talk about it yeah publicly yeah it wasn't that it was a secret you know there was no people that were coming up to me disagreeing with me trans people were agreeing with me mm-hmm trans people that I'm friends with like that is crazy that is out of her mind it was funny and also in the long run over many many conversations about it people realize okay I see your perspective like you're not not discriminatory no it's just about combat sports and even about weightlifting so I come on man imagine if you're a woman and all your life you've been power clean through the force of will and determination in

142:55your focus and discipline and then some trans woman comes in and just this is lifting a hundred pounds more than you're ever gonna live yeah and you're like well what the this isn't fair yeah you know those poor girls in Texas that had a wrestle that girl because they're discriminatory in the opposite way and they won't recognize this trans girl as a boy but this trans boy is they can get injured too yeah yeah I mean literally you're allowing someone you're allowing a girl to take steroids that's what you're doing you saying one girl can take steroids because she thinks she's a boy we don't think she's a boy so well let her take steroids it's like why you let her take steroids this is why you later take testosterone do you know how old that girl was or that you've seven trans okay okay she won states two years in a row Wow shocker but you know by taking

143:46those by taking testosterone - he's sterilizing himself yeah which is crazy at that age yeah let's say specifically of that person but just in general well as a neuroscientist and your understanding of the frontal lobe and the development of yeah it's gets you realized like your decision-making capability is not fully formed not till you're almost 30 so that's what people should vote that's when they should that's when they should make any sort of important decision but it's crazy because do you think a seventeen-year-old or even like a I don't even 21 year old can decide if they want to be sterile for life no no if you gave me a chance at seventeen to get a vasectomy I might have done it mmm-hmm you know no I'm happy I have kids but it's um it's an irreversible decision which is why it gets weird right that's like if you decide to sterilize yourself a testosterone is

144:38there any coming back from that you need to start taking estrogen again where you're really in know well once you start taking across sex hormones no no no and it's amazing because parents are saying well you know if that's the decision they want to make then they should make that decision and they're okay with it what's interesting too is the language that we use and that people use in the media now if there was a story about a woman who just gave birth Oh tell me more actually cuz I thought I thought I was thinking of something but I think it's something that she used to be a woman she was transitioning to being a man mm-hmm and she got pregnant okay but became a full man after she gave birth had her breasts removed right the whole deal right never celebrated yo celebrated as this man give birth but it was well not only that she I don't think she breastfed which shouldn't be

145:31celebrated like like there's massive amounts of evidence that um breastfeeding is super positive look is that that look at that full beard holding the baby so clearly taking the testosterone again if not taking it while the baby was in the womb mhm and I'm sure five years after having a child as a woman what transgender man gives birth to baby five years after having a child as a woman okay so she had a child as a woman and then she got pregnant again as a man that's what they're saying okay what does that mean what's going on there hmm majesty an alien ha ha ha so I guess it isn't impossible to get pregnant but if you're you know straight from your barrel blocker straight onto cross-sex hormones you know your body hasn't even really developed so in that case so as a grownup it's less likely that you become sterols at the case I think it depends on how I'm not in a new chronologist but

146:36I think it has to do with how long you've been on the hormones and probably how old you were when you started right but in this case I mean I just I've seen cases to where trans women will breastfeed but there and the doctors say this is an amazing thing but they're taking hormones so basically those hormones are going to the baby when they're breastfeeding the boy I feel I mean I even feel that child endangerment I know I feel bad saying this right now but why I feel it feels like I'm placing judgment I guess on you should be placing judgment well you were talking about something that's publicly projected well I see something that's in the news they do they chose to make this they chose to be there weather cameras were taking pictures of them they're proclaiming this that the other side isn't being presented - I think that's part of the problem what's the other

147:29things that we're saying yes well this is what so what are the other thought what is the other side well the one side of being that is progressive and if you identify as a woman and you have a child then you should you know raise that child as if no different from any other woman but she doesn't identify as a woman she identifies as a man so not this person the person I was talking about who was breastfeeding male to female you can breastfeed male to female Oh mm-hmm oh wait a minute both that's not his kid or her kid oh boy you do worth this is why those gender pronouns Jordan Peterson was this is why we need all these yeah separate gender pronouns 72 of them well here's the other thing this male transgender male obviously still likes dudes the one we just saw yeah because he got pregnant by a guy mm-hmm yep so stay a chick bro tell you do whatever you want to do but you know we should

148:36probably take any consideration the idea that maybe this isn't the best thing for that child to be subjected to hormones no that's that's the bottom line I think it whether a parent is trans or not have a bearing on their ability to parent so while that trans man was pregnant did he continue his testosterone therapies the question mm-hmm right that's the question whoa this one says no that's how they got pregnant oh so they backed off to have a baby on purpose no they were they took they got off the testosterone for health reasons and then got pregnant ah that's this particular case health reasons but I thought it was natural and awesome it's good for you that's the other thing too right if it is natural why do you have to have synthetic hormones injected into your body that are not endogenous like they did not even supposed to be in your body this is

149:27so crazy we live in such a bizarro world seeing a guy with a beard who's fully pregnant with a hairy chest is so odd I'd assume he has a hairy chest it's also I mean it goes against people who say that gender is a social construct why do you need to take testosterone then to by the opposite sex well this is one of the weirder things that the argument that I had about with one person online where they said about Fallon Fox they said she's always been a woman and I said even when she was having sex with a woman and got her pregnant mm-hmm and she said yes even then I'm like we're done we're done here we can't we're in make-believe land now yeah well what does that mean you wrote you were a woman when you were having sex with a woman so why not just stay that woman who has sex with women I think it's because people want to have sympathy right and so it's kind of like

150:17that's a nice story to tell yes it's not it's not true but that's the problem is that you're not dealing with reality you'reyou're you're into this weird fantasy land that opens you up to massive amounts of criticism from people that might be discriminatory instead of saying yeah this is problematic and weird and strange and the whole thing is weird instead of saying that saying no she's always been a woman well does that mean it's such a blanket statement too right but it's a wonderful thing to do to shut down all rational critique of this situation mm-hmm it's a wonderful way to do it and she's always been a woman like really well it's the only way they can win too though because if you actually enter into a conversation you have to actually think about your position right and actually think of ways to argue with the other person and that takes effort yes

151:04so it's a lot easier just to simply say they're wrong and you can't argue with someone's a lived experience it doesn't just take effort it's also an acknowledgement of the oddity of this situation like you there's you have to take into a committed to one side or the other and you're looking at it for what it really is you really have to go wow it's so strange like the open-minded be accepting be completely embracing of all oddities all strange different variables of the the broad spectrum of human sexuality be open to all of it yeah but also be aware of how weird it is because it is weird mm-hmm it's not you don't have to have hate in your heart to recognize that it's strange to see a guy with a beard breastfeeding right yeah you know or fully pregnant it's strange yeah it just is but I think if you're a curious person too you know you want to learn more and you

152:05want to ask questions but like in the climate now you can't even do that even if your heart isn't a good place yeah but it's hard for people to know that your heart is in a good place it's just part of the problem mm-hmm when you know you don't fall in line with the accepted narrative people think well oh it must be because you're conservative or you're transphobic or homophobic or something wrong where you're not on board with the the way people are thinking today you're stuck in the past yeah and the it's it's on the wrong side of history that's a good one but it's just you know it's hard to fully express your feelings on nuanced issues yeah well it takes effort right it takes time and you have to actually think about what is your position and you actually have to look at the facts and then have a nuanced position because I don't think most of these issues you can't just simply go

152:56with one side or the other across the board or simply go with what sounds nice there's usually a lot of other stuff underlying that that needs to kind of be hashed out what is your transition into academia from academia to the you know doing what you do now being able to write things and do podcasts and be free of that sort of what does that been like the process or what what led me to do it both the process what describe what led you to do it okay so I just finished my PhD last year and in the last two years I realized that academia changed a lot so when I first two years and I would say in the four years I did my PhD it changed a lot so when I started there's certain topics that were a little taboo but you could still ask questions and I had planned to stay in academia and continue being a sex researcher I love sex research but I realized as time went on that you couldn't ask important

153:48questions anymore and especially when it comes to gender sex differences and gender dysphoria so at the time with regards to the debate on kids with gender dysphoria there every single mainstream news piece and left-leaning outlets was saying young kids should transition that's the best thing for them and so you'd see all this coverage of young kids who had transitioned to the opposite sex and their parents were you know elated the kids were you know doing so well apparently but from a scientific perspective that's not what the research shows as I said most kids will grow their feelings so it's best to just wait and see and so I wrote an op-ed about that and at the time you know I wrote it and I sat on it for probably about six months trying to decide whether I should really try and get it published because I knew that people were gonna be really upset even

154:37though I was just talking about the scientific literature and I asked my colleagues what do you think and they said to me I said should I wait until I have tenure to publish this and they said even if you have tenure it's not going to protect you nowadays so you know I was lucky my mentors have always been very supportive of looking at facts and looking at the truth and don't worry about whether it's politically incorrect or not just say when you do a study just present what you found don't worry about how people are going to take it but not everyone is like that especially even in the hard sciences now if you publish the I mean I won't even get published now if you find things that are controversial because journals don't want to have to deal with that the institutions don't want have to deal with that so I made the decision to publish that op-ed and then from there I

155:21said well I'm I'm gonna see where this journalism thing can take me and so now I say whatever I want but that sort of behavior and that thought process is such on their side it's such a weakening of the foundation of critical thinking mhm and the it also comes at the same time as these platforms like podcasting and YouTube that allows a person like you or like Jordan Peterson to now disconnect mm-hm and have a far larger audience although it is scary there is quite a bit of censorship going on with some of those platforms with you - yeah yeah yeah YouTube likes to they they they have the cute thing they do they de monetize things they probably d monetize this park you sure yeah if they if they even let you upload it after well they'll let us upload okay but the D monetization especially since your crew saw is YouTube one of the best ways to get D monetized yeah it's um

156:23squirrely it's they also make people like if you're subscribed they don't tell people when videos get posted something like that right they do some weird I don't pay attention hmm just I upload it and keep moving but I have friends who are there it's their main source of income was YouTube yeah and and videos and advertisement and for them was a disaster like people that were making a lot of money and then also that money was cut down to 30% of what it used to be and with no no clear guidelines the problem with the guidelines is even if you like say if we have a video and they just decide they don't like the video you can't really protest it you can protest it and but then they review it and then they uphold their initial ruling and they don't tell you why yeah there's no they don't say well hey you called someone a queer or you did this no no they just say yeah this is

157:17how it is it's subjective yeah well it's a problem with being a monopoly mm-hmm and they're not a monopoly in the fact that there's not other video platforms but they're certainly the largest by far yeah in terms of like user uploaded video platforms it's not even a close second mm-hmm which is kind of weird it's amazing that they've done it you know I mean there's nothing remotely like it I know a bunch of people thought about building one and I've been contacted by people that are starting up a new one they want me to join that good luck good luck YouTube so far ahead yeah it's like how do you catch up to them yeah and I don't think they're evil by any stretch of the imagination and I had a conversation with someone about it pretty recently where she was describing that they're really they're they're using crude tools and this is part of the problem with what what is being

158:10deemed as censorship is really they're trying to root out hate speech and they're doing so with crude tools that will eventually through you know a Thor is it that they're trying to shut down any sort of dissenting points of view you know I think they definitely leaned hard left they definitely do so does Google they lean hard left I was proven by the d'amore yeah paper and the you know how it was received the more memo actually you know what cuz I I was doing YouTube for a bit and then I stopped just because I unfortunately didn't have time because my writing is like my number one thing but I had one video that minute it went up I was talking about science on gender dysphoria it got demonetized literally there's 20 minutes and I thought oh you know I know what my intentions are and it's it's really unsettling when that happens it will it should be because you're not doing

159:04anything hateful no and what they're doing is they're trying to make subjects much less attractive to disk mm-hmm and who's doing it I mean is it doing it through crude tools or someone looking at it and flagging it and deciding that this is not something they want to be involved with advertising and in their defense a lot of this got started off by people that were really doing up on YouTube and they had to respond and they had to figure out a way to eliminate that stuff from their platform and I think once you start censoring the tendency is to continue and to expand the tendency is not to back off of that censorship like you know what we're just gonna allow halt cross deniers and racists and make your videos his YouTube is the Wild West baby yeah they're not gonna do that because they have advertisers and there's a significant amount of revenue they get from that but they don't

159:59actually end the conversation those people just get upset and they take the comment they may not be on YouTube but that people are still talking about these things but they're not on YouTube as long as they're not on YouTube they don't give a like yeah you're not on YouTube good luck with that conversation on Vimeo you know or wherever you're gonna go it's um it's it's odd but it's also I love it I love that there's these disguise the part of me even likes the fact that things are being censored I really do really I find it fascinating I don't like the the argument is fascinating because I think first of all I think censorship clearly causes that I think when you push against something there's a natural reaction that reaction is to bolster your defenses and fire back up and I think there's certainly some of that going on you can't really quiet ideas entirely but you do you do expose your

161:00intentions mm-hm and you expose these blind spots that are what we've been discussing all day there's these political ideology blind spots that people have these ideological holes that they have and the way they look at things mm-hmm well I think the question is do you want to solve the problem or are you trying to just be successful as a business if you want to solve the problem I don't think suppressing speech and shutting down people who are genuinely just trying to ask questions and have conversations I don't think that's gonna solve things I don't think they're trying to solve any problems I think they're trying to make a ton of money and they're also very liberal and they think the right thing to do is to suppress certain ideologies they deem harmful or hate speech hmm you know I had a conversation with a woman who's a youtube exactly was telling me that

161:49Douglas Murray and Sam Harris they had their this podcast that they did online and some guy put it up in his playlist mm-hmm and he got a Community Guidelines strike for having it in this playlist Wow and I said how is that and she said it's hate speech I said its speech speech I heard that podcast yeah and not only is it not hate speech you didn't watch it she didn't listen to it she had no idea what the it was but she just like well like confidently said it to me like I was gonna just shut up like you're out of your mind you don't even know what you're talking about this is hilarious but it was a person out of pretty high level over there yeah so it's interesting to see that like okay well this is the kind of lack of critical thinking that we're discussing this is the kind of blind spot that we're discussing you feel like you could just say that instead of appreciate that this is two

162:41intellectuals discussing something that's very complex mm-hmm and that is it was about immigration and about Islam and those are two things that people don't want to hear you know they just like go those two things are off limits unless you're a pro Islam or Pro immigration you better shut the up or we're going to demonetized you and that that kind of censorship is fascinating to me because it's it's not effective it's it just it just makes people go hey and you know and then it makes the people on the YouTube side get defensive and it makes them double down and you know and usually makes things worse yeah you see that now mm-hmm I mean you see it with many people it's it's a weird time for ideas yeah how do you feel about being part of the IDW the international dork web I'm the least mention happily the lease mentioned person in that group I'm very happy about that I

163:45don't like being in any groups mm-hmm would it Groucho Marx one say I don't want to be a part of any club that would have me mm-hmm just look I'm very happy to be able to have a platform where I can have people like you on or any of those people whether it's Brett Weinstein or Eric Weinstein Stein sorry guys Brett Weinstein Eric they got after Harvey everybody got real couple yeah I'm so into Brett he's really sweet he's great yeah and his wife Heather is amazing as well he'll be on actually the next season of wrong speak oh cool and Heather Heying his wife is amazing too she is yeah and they were on together and sam harris is a good friend and I love that guy he's fast any person and as is Jordan and look I don't agree with a lot of what Ben Shapiro says but he's a super nice guy and I really like him you know and that's that's you saw that thing that happened with that actor mark

164:39was the same mark Duplass is that his name got in trouble for tweeting that uh you know yeah yeah it's a fun time mm-hmm Ben is really nice too he's a really nice guy you know I like him a lot this intern act whatever it is the dark web thing that's all Eric Eric Weinstein's idea was to name this and label he loves all that he loves all that cloak-and-dagger stuff he gets a kick out of it but he makes some very good points and he's a brilliant brilliant guy yes and this idea that we're all joined together I mean we all went out we had a big dinner together like a bunch of dorks and we all got together and we're like this little Club that's kind of fun we're gonna do it again and we're bringing more people into we're bringing more people into the dork web good some people are resentful that they're not a part of the dork web I'll tell you some names afterwards but some

165:39people like contacted Barry Weiss and we're upset they weren't included in the dork web mm-hmm I love group I loved Barry's column it was interesting yeah it's the whole but the label of it all I mean it's what's interesting is it starts this car right so why is it even necessary you have this dark web and what's the function of this dark web what is this what is the dark web doing really like what what is you know and there was an article today where someone was calling it problematic and saying that it's mostly right-leaning people which is absolutely not true sam harris very left brett Weinstein fiercely progressive Eric very left I'm Way more left than I am right I did the the very few right-wing ideas that I hold on to the very small it's very the vast majority of my positions on things side with with people on the left vast majority bench bureaus very right but

166:37he's reasonable you know and he's also a young guy you know mm-hmm conservative religious it's but he's also extremely intelligent and reasonable talk to him and he has himself disavowed some of the things that he said and he's himself criticize his own words city he wrote a whole column here's a list of all the stupid things I've ever said online mm-hmm you know and because he's you know he's a very aware guy very self-aware mmm-hmm I think I think it's important to have discussions and I think it's important that when people feel like those discussions are being suppressed that they talk about that and I think that's what this whole thing is yeah and I think you're a part of that as well I was in the column yeah we could use you in the dork web okay a woman of color you do to prove that you guys aren't all racists yeah white people god damn it I took 23andme and I'm hoping I got some

167:40black yeah Brian I'm hoping for you to give me some give me more than 5% what is it that you have to have I think you only have to have like 1/16 Native American to catch a check in some places I'm not sure what it is in Canada but something like that yeah yeah like if you go fishing in in Canada and your first nation if you have I don't know what the number is but you could bring as many fish as you want but like if you like I was fishing in Canada in a place where I could only get one walleye a day you only get one but there was some dude next to me who's first nation's homeboy was just pulling them in left and right and sticking them in a bucket clean it up so you better be hoping on that test then I'm hoping hoping and praying I just want to be discriminated against 1/16 is one great great-grandparent oh that's all you need that's all I need somebody come on and didn't you say you

168:38have chimp and your family Tom for sure I'm infected chimp this is what I think I think if people evolved from lower hominids right that's what happened if you believe all that evolution nonsense nonsense no one believes that anymore at pseudoscience yeah it's a bunch of pseudoscience but I think that somewhere in my ancestry somebody went back in for one more shot a chimp they probably should know they probably drunk yeah yeah and clearly evolution is not it's not a straight flat plane right it varies yeah but you can't deny the influence of it you know as some people do yeah well I don't know what do you think about all this dork web stuff I I felt I mean the fact that the New York Times covered it give me a sense of relief because sometimes the things I write I don't feel like the things I write are that controversial or that offensive but the response I get

169:44sometimes I'm surprised you know you say this as a journalist as a journalist intellectual as a person who actually understands what you're talking yeah especially someone who has studied especially these certain topics within research I think I know what I'm talking about and so when people get really mad it makes you question where are we going so the fact that you know Barry covered this and that the response was so positive I mean people got mad to know people got mad at her she's taken a lot of heat yeah yeah definitely a lot yeah but I feel a little bit more optimistic because it tells me that people get it we have conversations like this and people don't think that we're bigoted or that we're coming from we have a nefarious agenda right we just want to have conversations and talk about things that aren't being discussed in the mainstream yeah that's where censorship

170:38becomes very dangerous if you do silence a lot of these conversations and right now they're not being silenced even though they're they're being demonetised and to a certain extent that is a problem but the conversation still exists and as long as they do still exist then the the vast majority exists in the audio form anyway and podcasting is the vast majority of the the volume of people that are downloading these kind of conversations I think it's a incredibly unique time for the distribution of ideas so I don't think there's ever any ever been anything remotely like this in human history there's never been a time where someone like me can just do something just on a laptop with a webcam and then nine years later it's this mm-hmm you know nuts I don't and I don't even I'm aware of it but I don't even think about it that much honestly I just do it I'm not I was excited to talk

171:42to you today I was looking forward to it I was excited to but I don't I don't give it much consideration as far as the impact because I think as soon as you do that it'll slip through your fingers hmm like if you think too much about it yeah well I definitely wouldn't say half the I've already said today right that's that's the appeal though yeah appeal is that you and I I really believe this if there was no microphone we probably would never have this conversation because it's too difficult this is it it would be too weird like you and I are just gonna sit down just talk to it if I just came in and met you and we said yeah yeah yeah weird like you almost have to have this where people can see it to do it mhm because otherwise you'd check your phone I check my phone get up and go to the bathroom it's like it would be a normal thing to do but by putting these headphones on and by

172:36having this microphone in front of our face we lock in I know that how many million people are growing in a weird way like a mold it's amazing strange but this is the only way we would have this conversation and it's made me far better at talking to people and understanding conversations and understanding what they are and also examining my own speech patterns and the way I communicate and getting better at it I like how you said you started it just because you wanted to talk to people but I think that's what it should be it should just be that interest in having a conversation while you still like doing radio when I was a guest you know uncertain radio stick shows you know like you do like if I was going to say I'd go to you know Phoenix or something like that and I would go do stand-up there I would have to promote it on the radio in the old days and I

173:31would get there and I would get there early and you know smoke a joint beforehand drink a cup of coffee and get in and start talking and having a good time and laughing they're like that'd be fun have a radio show man you know just go in there and just talk and have fun but the problem was to me was like always the censorship I was like oh I feel like you got a censor yourself then I started doing the Opie and Anthony show and Opie and Anthony had the show on you know was first it was XM then it became serious and and then they split up but when I would do that it was Opie and Anthony and Jim Norton and I was like this is the best this is so fun and the way they did it credit to them the way they did it was different than any radio show had ever been a part of because it was no structure you know they would just bring comics in it would just be me and Ari Shaffir and Bill burr

174:22and Joey Diaz and all these guys they would just come in and hang out and talk there was no structure at all it was just anthony is such a smart and funny guy Opie would sort of run the thing and and Jim was there and they would just let everybody talk and I'd be like this would be amazing you could just come in and hang out and have fun hmm and then then I started doing a podcast after that but it was because that and then Anthony did a thing called live from the compound he calls his house the compound and he did like this thing in his basement we had a green screen and he did his own show and he did karaoke while he's holding a machine guy he's crazy gun nut but he had a studio that he built in his basement like with legitimate equipment and I went oh and that inspired me and that that is literally what started me off to do a podcast seeing that he had set this up

175:17in his basement just just start doing it yeah Wow yeah I was gonna say the same thing I feel the wrong speak the fact that I can see people being mobbed and I can think okay I wonder what they're like and I can just ask them yeah yeah like is that what it's like for you you see someone you think I just want to talk to them oh yeah yeah especially someone in a controversial position like Jordan when I first met Jordan it's like when he was just starting to get some attention online mm-hmm and I wanted to talk to him I was like well what is going on here and why why is everybody up so upset at you and I've never met anyone in in all of my life who is so purposely misrepresented yeah by other people than Jordan yeah I've never seen it before it's it's amazing to see intelligent articulate people clearly lying about his positions and about how and not and not even

176:19understanding that by doing that they're strengthening him yeah and they're strengthening the there you're not going to lie to the point where people are going to really think that your position is correct and all these things that Jordan is said that somehow or another you've misheard them or the whole world misheard them you're misrepresenting his positions and that just makes all the people that are siding with him realize he's right yeah it strengthens him they literally don't understand that they are his publicists they are helping they are proving his point mm and to the point where he's selling he sold out gigantic 5000 seat theaters yeah he's selling them out all over the world just talking it's crazy he's making millions of dollars yeah because of them being stupid it's amazing yeah it's really amazing and all of it came out of him putting his foot down in

177:27opposition of the very same things that you experienced then forced you to leave academia it's misrepresenting of reality mm-hmm that seems to be going and I think it's fueling the it's certainly fueling the dork web but on top of that because people are seeing that they can't trust what they're being told yeah they are they can't trust what they're being told and they understand there's other conversations to be had out there mm-hmm there was an article that I tweeted today that was really interesting I was like wow this is crazy it was talking about long-form podcasts and the ability that long-form podcasts have to allow people to to have rational civil discourse mm-hmm instead of just like getting on these CNN shows and yelling at each other for three minutes or sometimes you'll get a panel where everyone just agrees with each other yes yeah or the panels are crazy too how

178:28that you're gonna have nine people talking at the same time that is crazy it's hard to do when I do podcast with two other people hmm it's hard well it's entertainment but it's not a good way to discuss topics you know long-form conversations are really the only way where you can get a good sense of where someone stands on a position and how they think hmm you know I get a chance to see like you like a lot of people are gonna get a chance to see you today how you think about things what what your thought process is and if there's holes in that thought process they get exposed mm-hmm yeah and that's I think also with issues that are more complex you can talk about all the different nuances to that issue because if you just simply have your gain points and you sort of if you do like a standard interview that's say seven minutes long it's going to be very very sparse in terms of what you're

179:22saying yeah I mean there's not a single thing we discussed today that wasn't 15 minutes long at least right yeah and you can't really condense that I mean you could condense it down but you lose a lot of the information and also you feel like you didn't didn't do it justice mm-hmm like I can't do those panel shows because I feel like I don't there's no way I'm gonna be able to do anything justice I just is not there's no room especially now well people play it up to they know that they're there for the entertainment value so it's more about being upset at what someone's saying then some real under some real understanding right it's also about barking out your talking points and it's like ferocious a man or as you can appear that you're winning yeah yeah so it's just you're a nice guy too though you know you're not gonna come and attack somebody I definitely don't want

180:09to do that that the when I have people on I even someone that I think I'm gonna disagree with I just want I want to see how they think I want even I'm one and some people get mad they go oh dude you know you more for your opinions based on whoever's on the show that's not what I do but what I do do is I let people talk and I try to see their point of view and I try to expand their point of view so if they say something oh so so what it is is that this you know I want them to keep going why I want to I want to see the landscape or their thought process I don't want to want to see a tiny garden I don't want to see a little potted plant I want to see the whole thing I want to get a sense of why do I disagree with them what am i up maybe it's me you know maybe it's maybe it's them but that's how it should be - I don't think people should be stuck in their opinion even no matter how right you

181:02think you are I think you should always be open to changing your mind I think so too but I think that's one of the rarest qualities when it comes to discourse is the ability that people have to abandon ideas that they've supported in the past because what does that mean then if you're on one side and everyone in your life thinks this way what does it mean if you don't think that way yeah well what is what are the are the ideas you are you you and the ideas are just things that you're you're examining yeah that's what it should be mm-hmm but for most people including me most of my life that was not the case if I had an idea and I if I supported that idea that I'll fight you yeah this is this I'm right you're wrong and so what changed then doing this doing this podcast change the way I talk to people change the way I look at life mm-hmm I've talked to so many smart people mm-hmm I

181:57mean I've had a thousand one hundred twelve hundred 1200 podcasts plus all the MMA ones there's so many conversations so and through those conversations I've gotten at least not a formal education but an understanding of things that I never had before mm-hmm across a lot of subjects too yeah yeah and through that I think of understand I've come to understand not just how I think about things but why why I've had roadblocks and conversations before and speed bumps and and I've learned you know I think if you examine your own yourself and your own thoughts you're you're sure to learn mm-hmm hopefully yeah and I think it also can help if you look at the other side it can help you figure out why you believe what you believe too because you can look at them and say okay I still don't agree with you and this is why I think if people aren't even willing to look at the other

183:00side and consider why they might be wrong how do you really know yeah and then you also run into some people that they don't really have opinions they have these things that they've adopted like slogans yeah they've gotten these things they've decided this is what my side supports so I'm gonna just spout this out and this makes me seem like I'm a good team player and and then the thing about podcast though when you sitting down for three hours you go why do you think that what's going on there and then they start talking about why they think that and then you know it all falls apart and then you realize that they don't even know why they think that yeah and they probably never even thought of before they just been saying what they've been saying so long right cuz it sounds nice yeah yeah they love it it's a sport I mean there's idea sports you know an idea sports are the arguments

183:54the arguments are so oftentimes idea sports mm-hmm yeah politics - to some degree I think oh yeah for sure but the politics are just so flavored by money the problem with that you know that version of ideas board is lobbyists and special interest groups different people that are pushing you to get in the office cuz you're gonna change laws and force things through and that's the trickiest of all idea sports and also the most shallow I mean just think about presidential debates and speeches and those are the most shallow discussions in terms of the actual reality of yeah and who that person is yeah who is that person imagine if you were dating someone and every time you want on a date with them it was like a presidential speech who the are you I don't you know you are you don't display any kind of interesting though about that but that's what we want in

184:50leaders right we want someone who's full of who like makes us feel better mm-hmm yeah that they're speaking like a leader mm-hmm you know it's weird it's weird that we like these patterns so you know the presidential speaking pattern is a very very strange one mm-hmm yeah it's it's soothing though yeah yes in a way right yeah in a way it's soothing cuz we want a Big Daddy Big Daddy to take care of us you know tell us everything will be okay but as you get older that makes less and less sense like I'm 50 and so if a new president was 45 I'd be like that don't know see no you have been living 45 years you know but like when you're 30 and the president's 17 like well you make sense yeah he's an established person he's a man of reason but is it at the age difference or is it your own maturity well there's a lot of old dummies sure there's a lot of dummies who just survived

185:55because we nerfed up the world for them yeah it's your own maturity it's also the amount of time that you have to examine ideas see if I worked in a coal mine I probably would not have the time to sit around all day and think through mm-hmm there's a great luxury that you have when you're we do this for a living yeah that you get a chance to communicate with people mm-hmm over and over and over again and it'll be another podcast tomorrow's another podcast the next day every day I'm looking a new person and talking to a new brain and trying to see how it goes on in there and what's behind the eyes figure it out yeah yeah is that why you like it this length you know what everybody told me not to do this this was the fun but like Ari Shaffir it's famously told me you go to your podcast I go why no one's gonna listen to it for that long so they don't listen I don't give a like I'm just gonna

186:51do this yeah like a shred of it like why well this parts new that are not good I go yeah those parts you're gonna have to either skip over or just not not download and give a the nice thing about long-form though too if people know it's not edited they trust it a bit more yes yes yeah there's just definitely that yeah like that but yeah all that yeah that's in there it's character that's who you are yes we are you know there's no way you could free ball an entire three hours and well sam harris can do it he's pretty good at it yeah super articulate guy mm-hmm what practice well you've been doing this a long time you're good well thank you you're good at it thank you we just did three hours well is there anything you would like to to say or same thing you did don't think we covered mmm I guess don't think I'd say we let just launched our first season of

187:48wrong speak the second season will be starting in the fall now how are you doing when you're saying season so we did three for the first and we're gonna do another cluster of three or four for the next but why you calling them a season because it's one group and whatever sells particular subjects no so then so next season we're gonna do one on political correctness and comedy there's gonna be one on academic mobbing and then there's going to be another one that's gonna be surprised oh so you plan them out way in advance yeah we do a bit more of it's kind of more of a structure like a story it's not a long-form thing it's a bit more of a more production in there I've mostly heard you do other people's stuff yeah probably so you're doing a lot how did you how do I do a lot well I'm not even sure how I found out about you I mean I'm sure I found out about you online

188:36yeah I don't know like what it was that that led me to one of your interviews probably the Google memo I think when I wrote that column defending James Tim Moore's memo because I think that's when we first started being in contact mm yeah yeah but yeah I do a lot of stuff ID so I have a weekly column for playboy.com monthly column for The Globe and Mail which is Canada's national newspaper co-host on wrong speak the podcast and I'll be doing hopefully lots and lots of more stuff going forward and hopefully we'll do this again I hope so this has been so much fun I'm gonna totally fangirl now until you have been watching you as an MMA color commentator forever so this has been so cool well I I thought it was really cool to I really enjoyed talking to tell people how they can find your social media and all that jazz I met dr. Deborah so on Twitter and Facebook dr.

189:25Deborah W so on Instagram and then you can check out wrong speak at wrong speak and all major podcasting platforms iTunes play we did it Deborah yeah thank you thank you so much bye everybody