Cameron Hanes

00:00usually have it but it goes away after a month or so I had a flight for months pretty solid oh and we're live cam hands how you doing buddy I'm good how are you I'm good welcome to California I know and that this place is amazing it's pretty badass right yeah we did there we did the Grand Tour and I'm ready to lift yeah we're gonna we're gonna shoot first do you want to have poor accuracy no that's like your your whole motto of run lived shoot yeah shouldn't be shoot lifts run or shoot run lifts I don't know do you would you you've run in the mornings and then you run at night too yeah you're a problem yeah yeah that's a problem yeah that's too much well I I just fall back on the moderation is for cowards and so that like pretty much covers any cycles are doing in excess unlike just it can be like no I'm just not a coward and what about overtraining is that yeah yeah slowly but

00:58you were saying before that's when you were 20 you're 50 now but when you were 20 you could never do what you could do now when you're 50 now so if you tried to do what you do now at 50 when you were 20 wouldn't it be overtraining I'm confused well I mean if you weren't in shape yeah enough obviously you're in great shape could you do that all the time but if you weren't in great shape and you tried to keep this up like what you're doing right now yeah no I I don't know I feel good who was here Jamie somebody just walked in delivery oh so when you were 20 did you do anything I mean I've always been active right you know I always played sports and ran 10k in the summers and things like that so just worked out a little or something yeah yeah I just wanted to lift a little bit but not you know to the level I'm at now yeah but when I was looking at your

01:51Instagram I get tired yeah I do because you're doing all that especially that you're dealing with outlaw strength yeah Eric Eric yeah yeah outlaw strength on Instagram you guys are doing ridiculous amounts of reps yeah we do it's it's all about the reps and it's like I don't know and like I say your body gets used to what you're asked of it yeah if I would have tried to do that exact same thing when I was young no way I'm gonna be probably be so sore I couldn't do anything for a week yeah that's what I was thinking also when I was looking at was like if you stop doing this how long will it take before it slides off one day because when I don't work out for one day I'm skinny fat and weak how might know for real like how many days is what's the longest you've ever taken off oh probably hunting oh if I'm home I don't I would never take any time off but when I'm hunting because that's what

02:46I'm you know therefore right but when you're hunting at least you're hiking yeah there's a lot of physical activity and right there's a lot going on there mm-hmm but I'm gonna watch your videos those Instagram videos of you guys okay we're gonna do a hundred reps yeah cousin right now I told you I'm suffering through this little tendonitis thing that I've been trying to fight off yeah I saw I see all those reps and my elbow starts hurting when I'm looking at the screen yeah you know people ask me about my joints are about oh you know cuz they're battling different things like that and I have no idea I mean I just I don't have I've been lucky where I don't have injuries you know I mean that's very disappointing yeah I mean I you know my eye I'm banged up a little bit but you know I've talked to you before where I've had to take a advil every day yeah and uh

03:35not anymore well you tell that story because that's a crazy story and I've talked about it on the podcast without you being here but I called you after Rhonda Patrick did a podcast me and she was telling me about the dangers of what they call non-steroidal anti-inflammatories that's what I get pro feena's right and she was saying it ruins your gut biome mm-hmm and then it actually causes inflammation and so that people that are taking advil every day for inflammation don't even realize that taking all that Advil actually is causing inflammation right yeah so you quit I quit and then I wasn't and I almost think it was maybe placebo a little bit because it's like it not only did it not help after a while but it made it worse essentially the inflammation so after hearing that and you know who's ever going to question Ronda Patrick right I would never so Mike well I better stop that so since

04:30then I haven't been taking anything and then I have taken there's just there's just you get at the health food store it's called kratom oh yeah you ever heard of that yeah that that seems to help you know they're trying to outlaw that stuff yeah yeah apparently that's that kratom stuff I had Chris Bell on the podcast he's doing a documentary about kratom hmm and he did that documentary bigger stronger faster huh and yeah I know who he is he brought in some guys that sell kratom and they're explaining what it does and I tried it and what when I tried it apparently if you take it in low doses it's like almost a mild stimulant which is what it felt like to me ever gonna take it in higher doses it relaxes you yeah and it's really good for pain mmm and Chris has had hip replacements what'd he say about it was a positive or not there's no negative yes there's no downsides to

05:22it it's not addictive right it's not bad for you it's an herb it's not toxic at all right so that's I mean if it's of course the government's trying to make it illegal you can't have stuff out there that actually helps yeah they're trying to label it with heroin and and it's just they're so crazy yeah yeah no it's uh but I think that's helped but other than that I don't take any I mean nothing and I feel great that's crazy that's amazing so when you're doing all these reps like so you do and you you do these crazy things I'm like the lat pulldown machine where you do the whole stack yeah right mmm the goal is 20 of the stack of everything that's ridiculous so how do you not get like joint pain that doesn't I know now so just because you do it all the time I'm not a tradition to it i I can't makes me want to do it I know it's but I don't want people to I

06:12mean it's taken a while to work up there yeah right so I mean I I don't want people to go and try to do that right out of the gate and then get hurt because that's what I think that's what frustrates people more than anything is when they're excited to make a change a lifestyle change and then they something happens and then you know they get hurt yeah I was doing chin-ups three or four times a week I decided I was going to do 50 chin-ups at least three or four times a week just just make sure I did them all the time and then on top of that I was doing heavy cleans 90-pound cleans with the auto bells cleans and presses and I started getting this whole nagging elbow pain yeah and I didn't want to be a so I kept working her through it yeah and it would be fine like during the workout it'd be fine like it would start to hurt at the beginning of the workout but then once

07:01the blood would get flowing then it would be fine and then after a couple of weeks of that at my arms like hey yeah this is enough of this yeah cleans are tough though unions are hard I mean I I know I know what I can get away with I don't do deadlifts you know I used to do deadlifts I used to do all the stuff now I'm like out you know even though I want to do I wanna maybe everyone small tried deadlift and because I know it feels good I mean my hamstrings feel good my back feels strong when it all everything works right but I just know that's just it's just not smart because there's a high possibility that the chick you go know something something gets tweaked in the bottom and then you know it's one side and then it's you know I feel it down my leg and I'm like not taking that 130 pound rock and throw it into the backpack and going up mountains with that you're still doing

07:53that no it's gone right if my rocks gone what happened the rock I don't know somebody stole it I guess see you or even the same roll it off the side of the mountain this time do do probably jerks off on that rock you're probably this is sounds fun I wouldn't be surprised a lot of things online oh yeah there's some there's some great people and there's some crazy people oh there's mostly great people yeah for sure I find that my interactions online are almost mostly positive like I am with a like by far the problem is that's like having mostly non poisonous food yeah yeah a little bit of poison yeah enough all you have to do is go to this restaurant one or ten times they poison you never go back to that restaurant right yeah I don't know II think it's one out of ten I think the the interactions that I have online that are negative it's not even one out of a hundred no I don't think so

08:48those for me those are the ones that I am drawn and I find myself I see the negative and I go pass all these positive and then I'll say something because just if I'm in a bad mood after a whole day of getting beat down by stupid comments so I'll have to do something they don't be like why did I so then I go back and I like try to acknowledge some positive ones because I feel like well I saw you post a picture of a bear that you shot the other day it was a video of a berry shot and I saw ooh I looked at those comments I'm like here we go which one what okay what say you you you shot a bear and you were opening its mouth and chunks teeth and oh yeah yeah yeah and I saw that video and I was like whoa that's a landmine right there yeah I know bear you know bears crazy it is that is the the one animal that I think people have the most distorted perceptions of because the teddy bears

09:43because yogi and because I really want to take anybody who has these weird thoughts about bears I just really want to bring them to John and Jen's place in Alberta yeah and I want to say once you we're gonna come hang around and if we're lucky we're gonna see a bear tear apart a baby bear yeah because they do that every day all the time they get up out of their dens and they go looking for baby bears yeah and then maybe if we're lucky we'll see a bear get ahold of a fawn and it'll be crying and they'll heat Eataly to eat that thing alive yeah they'll have a different they'll have a different take on it they'll be like kill that yeah just people are nuts they're chattering wolves into California the torah' Colorado rather I'm talking about bringing wolves into Colorado like okay listen folks you don't have to do that you don't you already have bears you know I saw this

10:28the other day I think I've put up I think it was what inspired me to put up there is a wolf video I posted there's some great wildlife videos out there oh it's crazy all right great not not they can be emotional like with that bear kill on there the L path yeah where was crying that was I don't even like to see that I mean I'm a hunter but there's one or these wolves were chasing down this cow elk and you know that's not a quick process and I put that up because I had seen a couple celebrities and I don't even know who the hell they are movie stars I think or something but there save the wolf fun or some wolf and they're like howling they're two humans and they were howling like they were wolves and it's like I don't know I mean wolves are great wolves are I had wolves were one of my favorite animals you know call the wild White Fang that those books I love those Jack London

11:26books when I was young so wolves have always held a special place in my heart but they're straight killers yeah they're organized that's two killers that so I mean I'm not hating on them for doing that but you just can't have wolves running around everywhere oh yeah you can I don't understand right in my neighborhood yeah I was uh at home you know I I made a recording of this because I was at home my dogs are barking like crazy was like 9 o'clock at night just it's like what the is going on and I step outside and these coyotes are like a half a block away from my house just screaming yeah those are wolves those are little wolf yeah and they got ahold of something and they're celebrating some dude sent me a video that's on his page of it's a compilation of all these videos from security cameras of coyotes killing cats and dogs yeah yeah those are wolves

12:23that's what they do those are little wolves that's all they are yeah they can breed with wolves I mean they literally are wolves it's a it it's a fascinating thing that the disconnect that people have with predators yeah now I I'm I look if I was in Idaho or Montana and I saw wolves I'd be pumped I think I would think it would be awesome mmm but you got to keep an eye on those things folks yeah you know there's a reason why they killed him off 150 years ago it wasn't because they're awesome it's because they will kill people they will kill your kids they will killed your dog they will they will they see no oves in the wild I saw a pack on Prince of Wales Island one time they came down to the to the water once and I've seen him I had a wolf tag actually when I was in British Columbia honey and Buffalo and I thought I was gonna get a shot at a wolf up there but I never have but now they

13:16give tags up there because they're trying to diminish the population yeah I mean they have too many it's 50 bucks it's the same as in Alberta I mean you would get our bear tags to go when we go up there dijanna and gins and you know $50 for a wolf tag also so it's not like there's a low number of wolves you know but every time I've seen them I have been in a certain amount of awe just because I've been like this this amazing animal for my entire life and I've just it's hard not to look at a wolf and not think regal and wild and you know you know there's that saying that you know you'll see bears and lions in the circus but you'll never see a wolf yeah you know they're just and I did the commercial with the wolf to just which was amazing but without Under Armour commercial you told me was pretty crazy because they had this scene where the wolf snarls and they had to save that

14:08scene for the very end mm-hmm yeah because it was they said you know it was supposed to be me against the wolf going after this elk mmm and then I ended up winning that little the story as it was told and they needed to get the wolf snarling and so they brought some meat out gave us some meat but they said well I actually gave it then took it away and obviously that's gonna make any animal upset especially a wolf but they said once we do that we're done with the wolf because it's not gonna just snap out of it and it's just gonna that's going to be its mindset for a while about it's not gonna be happy yeah there is yeah go back to that I think it shows at the end should yeah yeah Huck and that was actually I mean people thought that that was edited and it wasn't you know right there with me now is right there with me you know they did a great job of putting

15:05that commercial together it wasn't necessarily snarling at me or growling at me but it was there it was it was fun how big was that wolf I think it was about a hundred and thirty pounds I mean who's tall that that's a big that's what surprised me is how tall they are long legs right yeah and I think you know we were talking about earlier as far as endurance goes wolves I believe are the number one animal out there as far as they can run miles and miles and miles and they're tall and I can just you know their gait is you know whatever it allows them to go for hours and miles yeah I was talking about running with my dog you know and he's only a year old mm-hmm and he's in such good shape now because he runs with me all the time see if we run two miles I run two miles he runs seven or eight right because he's running up and back and up and back and up and back and yeah but it's

15:57amazing like what how good a shape they're in right out of the box yeah I mean he's a puppy yeah and he just books it up that hill just wrong yeah he turns around looks at me a calm I know and he comes running back to me yeah animals you know animals pretty much have the advantage over us on everything other than you know that I mean they're stronger stronger jaws you know the month you're there muscles stronger for what they have we have an endurance as a advantage over most animals potential and runt like elk but don't luckily we have you know we can use our minds well then is the reason why we're so weak mm-hmm you know it's it's so fascinating how things balance out yeah it's like the us using our mind creating houses and cities and cars and just sitting in a chair all day it makes you soft but then you figure out how to make a gun yeah and that balances

16:54everything out yeah unless the gun jams and then nature comes back into play yeah yeah yeah all these people that are you know into the wolf you know save the wolf like the wolf's okay like you guys go to Idaho like people are freaking out up there like yeah the wolves are okay like there's - you know and you go to Alaska I was in Park City recently Utah and when I was there they we went to store that had a wolf rug I was like Jesus yourself selling a wolf rug and the guy explained to me he said well these wolves are all shot by the government in Alaska because they're overpopulated so they're in these areas where they're trying to protect the moose populate and for these the indigenous people that are subsistence hunters right and live up there and they have like a certain quota and he's like so it's actually like it's a good thing to sell these rugs because they're gonna shoot these

17:53wolves no matter what they're trying to keep the populations in check and I think that's that's something that these people that have that you can see the problem with like celebrities missus like they probably didn't think that through it all they just think this is a cool thing to be a part of of course everybody wants wolves to live I'll just go and say we've got to support the wolf we got to save the wolf yeah and so it's like looks like a cool thing for you to be a part of I think one of them was what would have been Lisa Bonet isn't she's like kind of a hippie right she's a super hippie yeah she's got a nose ring yeah everything she's always oh she's pretty I remember that but yeah remember it's in a funny that Bill Cosby was mad at her because she was naked in a movie remember she's naked an angel heart he'd make you work and he was mad at that huh

18:38who's mad at that not funny yeah funny how things work out that's ironical yeah it is a radical I mean look I don't know I think wolves are awesome don't get me wrong folks just I just don't think and this is this was me two before I started hunting for I started taking regular trips into the woods you know you don't get it you just don't get it you got to go there you do if you don't go there you don't get it yeah you know it's a we try to tell the story I mean we're telling the story and it's getting through to some people I mean I can see it I can see the there's education there I mean and I'm sure you get messages every day from people who have never hunted who are interested in it who just want to know what the lifestyle is because we've sort of romanticized the lifestyle and and it's and it's easy to do because it's the mountains and the mountains are you know

19:31you get that connection and you get that empowerment so I think we are kind of turning the tide a little bit I got a message from a guy while back maybe four or five months ago who was a vegan for a long time started listening to the podcast at first was upset about to talk about hunting yeah ran into some health issues his doctor recommended he start eating animal products again started with eggs worked his way back up to me ate meat again he was getting you know healthy grass-fed you know ethically sustained animals ethically raised animals decided go hunting became a hunter mmm shot as far as deer ate his first deer yeah now he's gonna be a hunter yeah I mean this guy went full circle right heart of the journey of him going for full circle was listening to people talk about it on the podcast and realizing this idea that he had in his head that these people that are out there hunting

20:28or all people that hate animals and they're cruel and they're just rednecks that are going out there drinking beer and shooting these animals and laughing and hooting and hollering about it yeah you know well there's a couple points I want to make there one of them is your podcast has been amazing for the education part and I've mentioned this Adam and I did a podcast at the Kuti Bowman and I said you know Joe's podcast just because the the type of person Joe is as as far as being open-minded and giving everything a chance not not coming in with biases or the same type of listeners you have you've kind of cultivated or or you know they they like you because I don't know they see themselves in you maybe but anyway so those people have come in and listened to these podcasts like this without that bias and when you listen to it and listen to us talk about it it's not the

21:22redneck you know laughing because they're killing things personally might have thought it's you know this whole thing this whole thing we talk about and so this podcast and particulars I think been a huge tool as far as promoting hunting and ethical hunting and just the empowerment of being a hunter and so that I don't know just just this venue I don't know I don't know if we could ever done that without you know the Joe Rogan podcast it's been amazing I don't know did have you noticed that I mean with with other things besides hunting I think floating that's a big thing yeah sensory deprivation tanks right look that that business was going under there was virtually no centers in the in the world there was like one of them in Burbank and I had heard one of them was in San Francisco they just they were hard to find there was none in New York like one guy had

22:18one in an apartment in New York that you could rent out and a guy had one like that in his house in Vegas that you could run out there was none and now there's hundreds of centers all over the world in uniform dude I got one in 2002 mm-hmm I bought a house the house had a basement and I bought the house with the basement just being for two reasons one because I wanted to put a tank in there and two because the yard was big so I could have my dogs running around the yard yes I wanted to have a yard where the dogs could run around those are my two requirements for a house everything else I was like I really don't give a about yeah yeah there's the TV sits there and okay here's where the bed goes I'm a man you know there's things that make a deal sweat when it comes to houses that dudes just don't sweat but for me a big one was I try to tank a couple of times at this place called

23:09soothing solutions in Burbank I don't even know if it's around anymore but um and then I put a tank in my basement and then I started ranting and raving about it and doing these YouTube videos about it and then I got a new tank from the float lab so I gave my old tank away online I had like a raffle not a raffle but like a random draw I said just send me an email I gave an email address out and I'll just pick a random person so I literally just scrolled through my email I'm like thank right there and picked this guy out and set my tank to him and had it set up and sent the salt down to him deal and then that alone just having that contest and giving away a tank yeah and then putting together this video for the tank that red band put together this really cool video about it so these tank centers because me talking about on the podcast started opening up all over the world to

23:58the point where now when you sign up at a lot of tank centers the first time you go there they say how'd you hear about us whether it was through the internet through books or Joe Rogan like I'm one of them one of the options on a lot of their questionnaires and that that probably has had even more of an impact than hunting well it's you know it's amazing I I hear oh well people told me you wouldn't be anything without Joe Rogan that's that's some comments that I've got see there you go again constraining the negative ones I know but I wouldn't be honey if it wasn't for you right oh there you go well I wouldn't be me if it wasn't for that I wouldn't be the me than I am now so there you go okay well what I put it because I was like god I know I don't know I think we've talked about it before but this podcast gets two more more people than CNN is that right oh yeah yeah for sure

24:52so it's and I heard Jordan Peterson talk you wanna be Don Lemon what that's it that's good cuz I I trust this more than CNN you don't trust Yunnan oh you're a redneck you're on that Fox News tip Oh Fox News now that's where you get your news that's solid reporting that is legit that's Sean Hannity that guy I trust him with everything yeah I hear ya but so and I heard Jordan because we're talking about his recent trajectory I mean he's been I've assumed you've been brilliant his whole life yeah well in the last 18 months or two years or whatever and I think a lot of that is because of here so I would put in my phone I was like I'm gonna do some research on Joe Rogan before this I'm gonna turn the tables on him I'm gonna podcast him so I was like putting in there Joe Rogan influence or Joe Rogan a fact or whatever and I couldn't find anything so I think I think I think I

25:53need to write something to quantify that but but yeah this gets to so many people gets to a lot of people but in all honesty like just being not not even just trying to be humble but all I'm doing is talking about that's out there yeah real simple mm-hmm like I'm not really doing anything unusual right not just being open-minded mm-hmm which I try very hard to do but when you say you just do this and just do that nobody else does that they come in with these biases you know so you say that's a problem yeah you say you just do that that's a big thing yeah I think people need to stop doing that I think that's a big part of the problem we have in this world and I was talking with dan Harris from Good Morning America that's what he's on right yeah and he was he used a word that I love a term that I love toxic tribalism yeah you know so I mean you see that with CNN

26:50versus Fox News it's like neither one of them want to look at things objectively Fox News has a very clear right-wing bias CNN has a very clear left-wing bias yeah and they just go to war with each other right and then the president's calling everybody fake news and you know it's it's hard to see what's really going on people want to look at their side they want to defend their side and they never want to say okay I see this guy's point yeah you gotta be able to see people's points right I mean that's one thing that I always say about vegans after I make fun of them I say I I understand why you would want to do that and I think it's a compassionate choice mm I get it I totally understand so do I I do and I support their decision I don't think there's anything wrong with it I think you should be real careful with your health if you're doing that though

27:37and I'm not bullshitting this is not me being facetious or ahead yeah I'm not being a meathead you should be careful with your health there's a lot of things that you should probably check b12 is a big one that's a huge issue with vegans is b12 deficiencies and I think if you if you are a vegan you should consider supplementing with things that you don't have a problem with eating like maybe even some cricket protein or mollusks like cell shelf if people should look in the shellfish shellfish not only is it are they sustainable but they're so primitive they don't even have like a neurological system like they don't feel any pain like you could eat clams all day long they don't know what the is going on this is we have this idea about clams because they do that yeah they close that somehow oh the poor little thing is just trying to hide like that that pearls in there yeah no that's

28:25oysters oh okay I don't know anything about either I know about bow hunting yeah yes you do yes you do but to me meat tastes better yeah you feel better too no but as you were saying I mean yeah I don't have a problem with vegans or their diet or anion or dan I mean you know if you think about killing an animal nobody wants to kill animals right I mean that's not I don't know that's never you didn't want to kill an animal for no reason no you want the meat of the animal that I'm killing it is not not enjoyable no it's it's part of the process a weird sense of loss right yeah yeah and so I get that they're like well I don't wanna I don't want to kill any animals I get it that's fine yeah but yeah just having that you know the biases that come with it is what causes problems well they're they're doing what they think is good to shame people who eat meat or attack

29:26people who eat meat and especially attack people who actively go out and kill the animals themselves because they think that somehow or another it will lessen the amount of animals that are killed I think the opposite happens I think it Shores up people's aggression towards vegans they get it they they firmly plant their heels on the other side of the line yeah and they're like you hippie Randy tree-hugging yeah I'll go eat your sprouts right I'm gonna go over here and eat burger I mean there's a lot of people that go out and eat burgers because of that yeah I think probably yeah you know my friend Mike Hockridge from BC met him yeah Michael Mike was dealing with people from Vancouver that were sending him hate mail because of wolves now where he lives he lives in the real British Columbia right where there's wolves and grizzly bears everywhere we found a wolf kill while we were up there

30:18was pretty wild that wolf had got ahold of a moose calf just torn apart pack Wolves hair all over the place and they do it's pretty fresh too but he's shot a bunch of them and somehow or another some group of people found out that he shot wolves yeah where he lives you get an unlimited amount of wolf tags right there trying to kill wolves as much as possible you can kill a hundred wolves a day if you can yeah and that's totally legal yeah because they have ranchers up there and like one of I think one of his neighbors they a wolf it was in the middle of the winter a wolf got ahold of one of the cows a bunch of wolves a pack so these people are in their house they listening to a pack of wolves terrible cow that's like you know 100 yards from their right head scary freaky right they live in the real while so these people are sending him all these death threats and so he said look

31:08every time you guys send me one of these I'm gonna shoot a wolf in the guts yeah radio silence yeah they stopped yeah he said to this lady said every time you send me an email I'm gonna shoot a wolf in the guts yeah well I don't know it's probably in front of her keyboard going wolf though that was a tough one yeah yeah you know but BC was there just out loud grizzly hunting yeah up there because that they did a poll in I think Vancouver and not only that he did a very limited email poll with about 3,000 participants right yeah and 76% of 3,000 people said that they didn't they were opposed to grizzly bear hunting yeah but I think if you're gonna have any kind of a poll like that you should have to have these people educated first as to what they're voting about do you really understand what it's like up there I know cuz if you talk to Mike Mike shot a grizzly bear in the

32:06head from like 20 feet away as I was trying to get into his cabin like they are ferocious and they're huge and there's a lot of them there's no shortage of grizzly bears in British Columbia now but it's a whole education piece but that's I mean you could get take that too even voting in our elections sure I mean we need to educate people people need to be educated on the topics not just hunting but everything but they can vote their vote still counts let's say you can't tell people they can't vote because that's up yeah say well you have to have a certain amount of education or you can't vote that's no but what they need to do is trust the people who do now yeah you know like like up there the biologists who actually have boots on the ground or but and they're know that what grizzly are doing and how many there are let's go and trust those people it's hard to see when you're in Vancouver

33:00though the problem is you're in Vancouver you're eating on a nice sushi restaurant and hanging out with friends you know going to the movies everything's beautiful they're so nice so you look at the mountains you wish we're off in the distance yeah so pretty yeah I don't want to kill a bear don't kill the bears now but if you just go on a six hour car ride just go just keep going north keep going north and out your car and I want you to go for a two-mile hike into the woods just go for a two-mile hike yeah and I want you to sit there for a day just sit there for a day you're gonna see some right and you realize you will oh this is a different world this world is this is a wild world yeah like these things out here they don't give a if people are real or not they are they're doing what they've always done the bear running around looking for to eat the animals are running around looking

33:48to get the away from things that are trying to eat them yeah and this is how they've always existed yeah yeah I know and it's you know those bear and it's just like the the wolves killing the cow you said 20 feet from wherever they lived I mean that's just what they do but and that's what Grizzlies do Grizzlies are gonna kill their kin you know if they can kill a moose calf or an elk calf or a deer fawn they're not wasting a bunch of energy chasing a full-grown animal around so they're using less energy burning less calories they get an easy kill they get high protein that's just what they do but the reason why we need to kill them is we're not they're never gonna stop doing what they do we just need to control the numbers so how often that's happening if that's happening too often because there's too many of them well then the moose and elk numbers go down you know

34:32it's just balancing act and people will say well just let animals take care of themselves they always have been and it's like no we've out we've always hunted it's just now that people are saying well we shouldn't hunt you know so they're trying to take man out of the equation now man's always been in the equation as far as hunting yeah I think people have an idea about it based on the excess that people have committed I mean people have committed some atrocities when it comes to animals in this country alone everyone's seen those stacks of buffalo heads and yeah when they were doing market hunting in particular in the 1800s and many people attribute that to Hunter's erroneously that's not really what it was the what killed off all those animals was a thing called market hunting and this is back people have to realize there's no refrigerators back then and so you know

35:21you weren't like getting steaks and free and there was not a lot of like large-scale agriculture back then either there's there was a few ranchers and farmers but when people had all these animals that were out in the wild and they could hire these people that were in the military that had just gotten done from with the war and they were good shots they would this would be a good way to make a living go out there and shoot some Buffalo bring back the tongues buffalo tongue was a like they would cut shoot a giant Buffalo and just take the tongue hmm they'd take the hides and you know sometimes they would take the meat and some and then they they wiped out almost everything they wiped out most of the deer most of the elk most the antelope until guys like Teddy Roosevelt came along whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa hit the brakes yeah like we got to protect these animals we got to protect

36:07this land we've got to protect these animals we gotta set up private or public land rather where you can't do anything to it where people could just roam and hike and camp and fish and hunt and do whatever you want and we got to make sure we protect these animal populations because they got down to some incredibly low number of elk at the turn of the century right yeah well I mean they almost wiped out Buffalo completely I don't know what the hell got to but I know you know as as you know as conservationists we like to say that hunters are conservationists now but and so one of the figures that we share is that there's more animals now than there was a hundred years ago so I don't know what they were a hundred years ago what the numbers were but yeah very low not only that there's more whitetail deer today than when Columbus landed and although Columbus Road didn't

36:57really get here when Columbus landed in the Bahamas yeah there's more white-tailed deer here than now and part of that is because of farming yeah which is real weird like like a white-tailed deer is a weird animal yeah like they're kind of a farm animal yeah a lot of a way yeah they're and it's almost like you know if you're doing it right as far as killing the older bucks you're almost farming you know you're not harvesting when they're young you're waiting till they're mature and so it's it's almost like you know you're letting that crop age exactly what is this Jamie in 1910 the u.s. Forest Service estimated they were only between 500 and in Elkin Colorado holy and now there's a hundred and what 25,000 oh I'm sure 150,000 I don't know there's a lot more than that the numbers of fuckload there's ten million okay it says the elk population North America

37:52stood at about ten million animals before European settlers came and systematic wholesale hunting began wow that's amazing you Colorado became famous for his trophy honey and European gentleman traveled here to try their luck Sir George Gore I heard that guy was a I'm just making that up he's a trophy hunter he's a trophy hunter for whom Gor pass near Kremmling is named came from Ireland to hunt in western Colorado he shot elk and deer from the bed of a wagon what a dick yes that's right honey Hill took prime hides and large antlers and left the meat to rot oh boy what a bad person that's that sentence right there and that's when people still think happens that I don't know anybody who ever does that's illegal first of all so Jane yeah that's a good thing put the good thing to point out yes illegal to not take the meat not only is illegal to not take to me

38:46you have to take the neck meat in Colorado you have to cut out the neck all edible and you got all the edible meat in in even between the ribs I mean there's a little I don't know about if that's a law in Colorado I know yeah yeah yeah you kill the moose you you're even taking that meat in between the ribs I mean you're taking all edible meat there and so people say well are you one of those trophy hunters or you know you just don't take the head and leave it to rot it's like you can't do that why would you do that anyway it's so stupid well I wouldn't do it but it's illegal anyway if you walk down the street if you if you eat steak and you walk down the street and you saw like for some reason someone had put coolers of prime rib eyes just sitting there mm-hmm you'd be like what the is this here for let's look around there anybody here I got to take this

39:36yeah is this yeah can't just leave this here right he's left it here to rot so why would you do that when you're hunt right that's just you finding it right yeah obably you would not eat it now that I think about it but like whoo I get the point you're making the point I was making it if you go through all the effort to go hunt yeah you do eat meat of course you're gonna eat the meat not only that the meat you're eating is incredibly precious yeah like elk meat is incredibly price it's so delicious well here's here's what I know so when we go hunting I can speak for myself well I'm sure I can speak for you too bill wanting when you go hunting you bring back all the meat you can you eat all the meat you can or that animal you like sharing it the typical I'll just say American but waste 40% of their food not this is what they buy you know how I'm done now in the garbage

40:26type thing yeah so hunters I know I don't do that if I kill a bull and I bring all that meat home 40 percent that's not going in the garbage no you know what I mean so it's because we we are we have that connection with the animal to me it'd be I don't know if I'm thinking about it it'd be disrespectful but I just it's so it's worth there's so much value in it I would never throw it in the garbage you know Anchorage but but when you buy it at a store whatever you know I'm not saying people are putting you know 40% of prime rib in the garbage but just in as a rule we waste a lot of food I think it would be a good thing for every single human being to grow some vegetables and if you eat meat to once in your life kill an animal mm-hmm I think everyone should do it I really do there was an article that I tweeted today about that forget the subject the title of it rather but it was something

41:26along the lines of it's not it's not healthy to hide from the fact that there's there's death involved in eating meat right something that did a terrible job of paraphrasing that'd be fine what that title is it's an article okay we shouldn't hide the gory details of how meat reaches our plate right well those are those chickens whoa yeah and I think that's very very important and I think that like what I'm looking at right that's their life that dark engross that's their life yeah it's up because I eat chickens but I don't eat my chickens yeah like someone said do you eat those chickens Mike now there's like my pets it's weird right but I'll get the out of some chicken yeah and but when you but when you think of it like that I mean so when we're working this picture I know people look in the or listening to the podcast can't see the picture but I mean we're looking at an

42:20enormous warehouse I mean enormous it looks like several football fields long and it's filled with chickens that are just stuffed on top of each other right yeah and that's their life until they get killed and when you think of that okay would I rather do that or would I rather procure my own meat hunting you know everybody would say that's not right and I believe hunting is a noble way of procuring me yeah and I think when you look at that but people don't see that they don't think about that when they order their you know chick chicken nuggets they're not thinking about that no you know just hungry just hungry it's just too easy to get food I don't think it's too easy to get food that's why we're such fat O's that's a big problem yeah but it's also just it's also too easy psychologically because we just don't have any any connect I think you should have a connection if you're

43:12eating a living thing it just seems it just seems like you should understand what it is just for your own mind for you for your own for just for a sense of balance yeah and 97% of Americans eat meat meat and something like 65 percent of vegans when they get drunk eat meat really has some crazy number some crazy it might be higher than that I think I read it was like 84 percent of vegans see I'm just making up numbers at this point that's fine it doesn't have been a tweet I read so we want to just make that who's gonna audit us so but so a vegan drunk yes so so meets like an ex-girlfriend yeah right it's like the next girlfriend yeah yes I get drugs for lonely dog is that right yes same thing yeah exactly yeah I got it yeah that's a little over a third that confessed to eating meat when they're drunk oh then it's a hundred percent cuz three quarters and rely er

44:07yeah surprising number of drug vegetarians secretly eat meat that is awesome picture right there I love that picture the problem with this this thing is this is a third of people that they ask pretty Schmitt vegetarians Oh British people it's a totally different animal they hate hunter they love saying oh did I see effing in there I just say that really I thought I'd been looking fo no fleshing out you said effing I didn't say gun no that's the cuss word yeah they do love to say but yeah they're the most delusional of there's like South America there's no exactly no hunting Brazil for some stranger I get a lot of hate from Brazil they love me you go to Brazil they invented to chew Hoss Korea shoe has Korea's our this man yeah did we go to one or two Brazil is that where they threw the plates at all right oh that's right yeah they threw the place yeah they chuck plates like

45:10frisbees and shattered him yeah they know how to party and per se do and it's just me on me on me beautiful a card it's got green on one side and red on the other a lot of people have into these like flow to the chou is a great one that's here in LA and all over the country but that's what they ate they're famous for me when you're done with the meat you give him the red card yeah right yeah screen on one side the other yeah you tap out yeah we go to town nobody can with Ari Shaffir when it comes to that place nobody really oh I've never seen a look when me and Ari go to eat generally speaking I'm more of a glutton than him I'll eat more than him yeah but not at that place really there's something about like all-you-can-eat I think maybe it's some like cuz his dad was in the Holocaust or something like that yeah like or he's just like because it's free

46:01because it's like you could she just won't stop I've never seen anything like it where are you putting all this food everyone's done Joey Diaz is done I'm done Eddie Bravo's done we're done we're just sitting there like this like yeah re still done green you're still in green he's like I'm still in green yeah guy will come over got lamb chops lamb chops just bring the lamb chops I can't I've never step is so good though especially in Brazil there yeah oh they know how to do it and they have grass-fed meat over there - they're not around with the corn-fed and all that they don't have the sick fat cows that we have over here mm-hmm but it is weird how you get a lot of hate from people over there but it's because of the propaganda and the the negative aspects of trophy hunting like when you see a guy standing there with a dead elephant or some like that would you kill an elephant like that

46:52kind of stuff in people's mind like or a giraffe I have would you kill a giraffe like people have this idea that these people just go over there to kill things and so this is what trophy hunting is yeah so they see you with an elk like oh you piece of why just go over there and shoot that thing like ya know this is my food for a year yeah like you're you're going to that goddamn Steakhouse and you keep that thing on green what do you think you're doing yeah you're killing yeah killing with your credit card I know it's uh well all we can do is try to educate and share the you know share the lifestyle it's like I think it's important to be leaders and and how we share that you know because I see things that I wish weren't shared sometimes I mean I've I've even made mistakes I'm not trying to say that I got I'm dialed in and I never make him a mistake on what I

47:40post or whatever but I just think we need to be stewards of hunting and and if we do it right we're not going to get everybody we're not going to educate everybody because there's something that just won't listen but we can make some inroads I think we have and I think I think it's important to relay experiences because I think there's there's there's things to be learned from a lot of experiences you know like talking to you and talking to Courtney Gold Oh Walter about just ultra marathons and endurance running there's something to be learned from that about the kind of mindset that it takes to do that I think having these conversations with you guys has changed the way I look at those things like man for I met you I never ran I'm running all the time now yeah on all the time you look slim I mean have you love how much you weigh like 196 got the same no I'm a little lighter

48:35oh it was up to like 204 when I was a fatso okay that was the fact that you look slimmer I'm a little maybe a little slimmer maybe I'm like 195 or 194 194 is when I'm pretty lean one pound got a full six-pack 194 when I hit about two when I get to 200 that's when I start I go okay we'd better start doing the fasting again yeah when I really get into my intermittent fasting I'll spend either fourteen or sixteen hours without eating in a day I only eat for like really an hours in a day yeah I need about every 30 minutes I'm actually starving are you starting right now you're in a different thing though cuz I'm eating mostly fat and you know a lot of guys are on that carnivore diet now when we had that Shaun Baker in here that doctor yeah you know the the the bells Chris Bell and Mark Bell yeah those guys are both on the carnivore diet now they don't need anything but meat all day Wow

49:27yeah mark says he's never felt better so he's thin he looks ripped if you look at his Instagram page he's jacked yeah shredded it's also on steroids it probably helps but but he looks good yeah well it's uh I don't know I one of my family just cuz Jesus Christ yeah look at him look at that picture oh my boy Xena's meat all he's eaten is meat jacked yeah jacked stud bastards little bastard say whatever yeah um he's at Mark Bell yeah yeah he's a animal yeah I watched the what you're stronger faster is that what it was yeah yeah it was his his brother was on there right did three brothers and one of them died yeah I'm died they hit a drug problem he's a pro wrestler yeah yeah that's what I want is it yeah it was a powerful doctor it was it was it was pretty sad I mean he wanted you know his brother wanted to make it be something and just like a lot of us you know and

50:28you know it's hard to say well he ran into the problem that I've seen many people run into those goddamn prescription pills they're so scary yeah they're one of the scariest things that are in modern society and it's something that's not talked about enough you only hear it talked about from family members of people that have lost people or close friends of people that have lost people but it's a it's a giant problem in this country we're losing thousands of people every day to pain pills yeah well I you know I put something up not long ago about suicide and it was amazing how many people sent me messages I mean how many people are affected or just are dealing with negative thoughts you know of their own in little mini battles and it's just like that one post I don't know I think people just need to know that there's people out there that care you know but I don't know how with when

51:23they get into that cycle of pills I don't really know I'm not a doctor I don't know how that works I don't know what they're dealing with I just know that you know social media can be used it can be irritating sometimes but man it can be good especially for people like that she's able to reach out and maybe you know get some support or encouragement or something yeah and it's well if someone that they admire like you that's gigantic you know if they can they can read something like that sometimes that's all people need just a little wind in their sail yeah just a little something thing all I said you know it was it was in the news there was a quarterback up at Washington State that killed himself you know he's gonna be the starting quarterback on the football team 21 years old and he shot himself a few weeks ago and I didn't want I don't want to say that well

52:13because I don't want to say that well it's because an athlete that's why anybody cares you know but it's anybody it's any person who's 21 years old I'm thinking what a tragedy that is but it just that was in the news so it happened and so that's why I put it up inferno I can't do anything it's not like I'm I don't I'm I just want people to be aware and just have that number to call in case there was a 21 year old feeling that exact same way and as this seemingly some kid who had everything I mean the college quarterback and it's just like it just breaks my heart to think that it they would get to that he would get to that where you know killing himself was the answer what's hard for me for younger people because they don't have a lot of life experiences and they don't know that like a guy like you or I who's lived a long time and I've seen a lot of that you've gone through your ups

53:07and downs and when you hit it down you go well this sucks but I know it's gonna get better ya just gotta figure out why it sucks address why it sucks apologize if you need to correct whatever the issue is that's making you feel like and pull yourself out of it do a bunch of positive things next thing you know you're gonna be okay yeah and sometimes when you're 21 years old you do you think the world is over yeah you know I mean I remember when my girlfriend dumped me when I was 18 I've so bummed out I couldn't imagine I couldn't imagine living without her yeah I'm sorry I can't believe that this is over I can't let you so devastated cuz they're you're a baby right you're an 18 year old baby you don't know jack-shit but when you get older and you've had more life experiences and more things you get more perspective and you kind of understand like what this

53:58feeling is mad feeling and you just know well hey I just gotta get the out of the house I gotta go hang out with my friends got to go do bunch of positive things go hit the gym take a yoga class do something fun and then everything's gonna be okay yeah hey you know look life's not perfect there's no such thing as a perfect life it doesn't exist yeah I'm gonna have ups you're gonna have downs but when you're 21 years old it's very difficult to see that and also who knows what else is going on is life but there were some hills or whether it's a head trauma you know a lot of football players want to kill themselves it's it's not a coincidence yeah it's directly related to head trauma yeah I'm not I'm not sure I don't want to speculate and I don't need that it's just I just you know I just it's horrible I get a lot of I just you know when you said well you go hang out with

54:45your friends it sometimes because I've been in certain groups where even my friends aren't positive I mean so you're like that even makes it worse they can so I mean that's where I see the positives of social media and I wish I could respond to everybody who sends me a message and just say hey you know and it's cliche keep hammering or whatever but I know I know I get inspiration from people online and if I get a shout-out it feels good it doesn't mean anything Rach where's your t-shirt doesn't mean I don't know if it mean it doesn't mean anything it's letting somebody it does to me you know and so I just know what it's like to be in a small town and to not I'm not saying I didn't have any positive friends or whatever but I know what it feel like to not have anybody to really lean on you know yeah and so I try to think about maybe people like I was and uh man I just think we can I

55:39don't know together sure we can we can do a lot of positive things I just it just like I said it breaks my heart to think of people living negative yeah okay I agree with you and I think that's one of the things that social media can do that's positive and also podcasts can do that's positive is it exposes you like there's people who listen to this conversation right now that they're taking comfort from it like they might be either stuck in a shitty job or they might be alone and they're here with us mm-hmm they're here hanging out and they realize those people like us out there yeah friendly positive people around there yeah even if you're alone at least you're not around negative right you know there's a lot of negative people around and it's unfortunate that they're negative I wish you could fix them all yeah but sometimes life gives you these lessons

56:29in the form of disastrous lives that you witness mm-hmm and you see these disastrous lives and you just go oh my god I got to get the away from this crazy and live my life in a more positive productive way because I see what can happen if you blame the world for all your problems and you all you do is hate and you hit on people that are successful and you hate on people that are whatever wealthy good-looking whatever the thick pick the thing girls are thin whatever the thing is that you hate on there's so many people out there that waste all of their energy doing that and if you're around them you can't fix them it's so hard to fix people but what you can do is see what they're doing that's so negative and just completely degrades the quality of their life and just don't do that recognize recognize that this is not the way to live and then go listen to a

57:23podcast with some positive people and say look at this guy this guy's out there eating healthy doing good things he lost 15 pounds yeah she went running and decided to start doing marathons and he did this and this guy's building a house you can you can find a lot of positive examples of people online today that's that's one of the reasons why I'm so drawn to ultra running I mean because whether you like running or not the people that do that are some great positive people I mean they're savages oh but they're also you get so use of winning those mini battles in a long run and you I mean you have to and you get strength from each other so at the finish line or during the race is you can get a bond there's a saying you know he who said sheds his blood with me will be my brother and it's like it's not that's probably derived from war and I get that it's not like a war or anything

58:19like that but it's going through a mini battle and when you do that with somebody and you share that experience you get that connection and it's like and it's why even though I don't know Cortney that well I know what she does and I really look up to her ability to just be a beast and that whole environment the ultrarunning environment and community is is empowering for me for sure and and that's that's why I love even just being around people like that it just makes you better well they're they're exceptional yeah those are exceptional people they have an exceptional mind to be able to endure something like a 238 mile race through the Moab desert you got to be something special yeah there's there's a little thing in the back of head says why don't you sit down I'll just quit enough is enough we already ran five miles yeah that's enough man you ran a marathon

59:14that is enough you went to marathon so you sit the down we just sit the down take a nap but you have to be able to shut that off and most people can't shut that off yeah can't you know it's it's tough it's it's amazing I mean my brother was with me on that last and and it's it's weird to share an experience like that with somebody because you can be similar but in the course of something like three days like that you're in low points at different times you know what I mean right and so it's really hard it's really hard to win each of those battles because at one time when you might I don't know it's just it seems like that'd be easier but I think in some respects it is but it's man it does it's tough it was tough all the way around so when you're going through a three-day 238 mile run mm-hmm does it it gets bad at certain times where you just feel like yeah and

60:16then if you keep going it gets better and then it gets bad again yeah and then it gets better oh yeah yeah you're up and down up and down the whole time and but you know that if you keep going even when you feel like you will eventually break through and start feeling okay again I don't know there's no guarantee there's no guarantee no there's no getting you hope have you ever gone through a whole long race and felt like the entire time yeah which one of those well like the 24-hour run you know because that's usually like my first tough one of the years in June so I haven't really prepared for it now because I'm always after spring bear and I haven't been training because I've been up in Bear camp and doing whatever so that's always one where I know I'm just pretty much gonna be miserable the whole time there's gonna be no light at the end of the tunnel other than one the

61:0924 hours is up so that one I know I'm just gonna have to grind it out but and that's that's where I'm like mm-hmm it's uh this is one day out of my life just do it I'm just gonna be miserable you know on on Moab that one started off and I felt terrible right out of it I mean I felt I was like we were I don't want to think like 19 or maybe 15 miles in something like that an aid station I'm going this is not good these team miles is yes which Easy's you were running a marathon a day yeah yeah so why was 15 miles so bad um I don't know there sometimes when you do you ever go on a run and your legs just feel heavy yeah and you just don't feel good yeah so that's what that I just I was like I wanted to be fresh and I wanted to feel light on my feet I don't want to get out there and I was like it's not a good sign when I didn't because you know we just essentially

62:11started the race and it was hot and I had run out of water already one time and my legs felt heavy and so is uh it wasn't looking good and then Courtney was way out ahead and you know they're saying I you know with I didn't really know who she was at that time so I we were me and my brother Taylor we were thinking well 70 in the 70s would win the race hmm so I thought well I want to go out and and aim for finishing in the seventies and when you say 70s what do you mean hours yeah so I figured because what usually one Bigfoot was high 60s in Bigfoot's 205 205 and so this is you know close to 35 miles further so we just figured well probably 70s is going to get it done and so she went out and she had there's another couple other guys with her I think and they went out pretty hard and uh you know there's updates and where they were and I didn't know I didn't know at that time she was

63:13the American record holder for the hundred twenty or the 24-hour run she'd run 160 miles I think in 24 hours this Christ and so I was like oh well they just went too fast you know because I'd done that before and like a Bigfoot the year before and I thought well they'll come back you know so meaning it'll balance out we'd catch up or they'd come back and I think the guys with her ended up dropping off a little bit and then she never came back she just well one of them dropped out totally tried to keep up with her and he couldn't and he wound up dropping out totally she's a monster and she's eating nachos and candy that sounds crazy drinking beer well all these people are unlike all these diets watching their macronutrients and no but I didn't want to say that is because that because I listened to you talked to her about that mmm excuse me I've seen a lot of comments

64:05about that but what you got to keep in mind is her training yeah so you can't say well I run 15 miles a week I'm gonna eat nachos and beer right so she's running 120 miles a week probably you can eat pretty much whatever you want right so I get that but it's also like I was asking her about like the nutritional content food are you really monitoring how much protein you get versus phytonutrients and minerals and buttons no no she just needs calories yeah you know she just it doesn't matter he didn't matter what how she gets them just needs calories just sustained or so just think for just a the cells of your body you would need more nutrients I mean who knows she's obviously a Savage yeah but who knows if she really monitored her diet and ate super healthy she might be better maybe which is just terrifying maybe yeah she's she's amazing she's so normal - yeah you hang out with her like

65:06when she did the podcast she's just fun and laughing like you would never imagine the cheese's like elite ultra marathon runner I would think you'd have to be like super stoic and intense and now she's and when you see her she's wearing like it looks like basketball shorts yeah like yeah exactly sure that's not it's not like you know you see some of these track athletes and they got the the tight little shorts on and the right in the singlet and they're like you know she's like it was a kind of a baggy shirt and baggy shorts and then just crushing people crazy yeah she's but I love that though I love outliers they have people that come along it don't make any sense I like what the like that she's so much better than everybody else she won that 238 mile race by 22 miles something like that yeah 22 miles ahead of the second place winner yeah and the guy who got second is a stun

66:03animal it's done as an animal yes she was 22 miles ahead of them now imagine get whooped not just whooped but whooped 22 miles ahead by someone who's eating nachos and drinking here and eating candy I love someone who doesn't make any sense who's just so much better yes just like wow we got a throw throw a monkey wrench into this whole idea the only thing I got on anybody is can they pack out an elk yeah if that was the reason you'd them all up but what what I like about her also is I flew home the other day I can remember was from but I flew over like there's some in the Cascades of Oregon there's a middle sister norsu store south sister and then bachelors where everybody goes and skis and then broken tops right there so I filmed it and I'm like I tagged my brother Taylor and I'm like hey can we knock off all five of these Peaks in 24 hours and and it would be I

67:01mean it would be a test you know and she come in and said she wants to she'd join us she wants to come do it so I mean I just love that I don't even she's a she's amazing but that type of I mean I guess that kind of goes hand-in-hand with the the eating whatever you want is also doing whatever you want yeah you know like a lot of these elite athletes they they would be like have a schedule of races and my training and this and that and I'd like you know whatever I like that she's would just say yeah I'll do that yeah it's not a race it's just we're just having fun yeah we're just a test it's it's an unofficial test and for her to want to join in that's probably what I love the most about her you know are they're established trails that you guys could run over all those peaks um we did the South sister in the middle sister last year and now it's uh getting off the

67:55South sister towards the middle sister is sketchy it's there's no trails now oh so you just running through the woods it's on sight there's no trees it's on the side of a mountain so it's like a shale and even more sketchy yeah I'd rather run over trees yeah sort of now you would because you know if trees are their solid ground there right you know so with with the rocks up there you don't know what's gonna happen you gotta be stepping over ship if there's trees there yeah it's a bunch of places where all the trees have fallen down generally yeah I mean there can be windfall in there but generally you can get on an animal trail and find your way through you know but when it's just rocks that's what that's probably the most sketchy cuz yet because just because there's a you know I don't know a thousand pound rock sitting there it could just just be balanced perfectly

68:47you might step on it that could be there's no guarantee that those rocks are staying there you know falls all the time so that's with rocks in that type of country super steep it's part of it it's fascinating to me that that is the appeal of sheep hunting to a lot of people is that it's so incredibly dangerous that being up in those high peaks and stepping on shale and like on these these crazy Peaks were to the left is just a steep drop off to the right is a steep drop-off you have a very narrow place to navigate yeah it's a you know sheep hunting they say it's it's not that it's not the animal that's the most wary it's just the country that makes it so I mean they're expensive the hunts but it's just what they did to that it's just where they live is the draw yeah you know they're them I think with the bow definitely a tough animal with a rifle mostly it's just kind of getting

69:46in if you can get your body within a range you know you can usually get one done but it's it's just where they live yeah when Ben O'Brien and green tree were hunting tar yeah a similar thing New Zealand yeah and these crazy peaks and super dangerous sketchy territory and people it's fascinating to me how people get addicted to incredibly difficult things mm-hmm they do it they say I'm never doing this again cause it's terrible then they get back in a couple weeks later like she I don't want to go back yeah it's a god I don't know what I don't know what type of analogy to make but you know if you when you've done say oh maybe ultramarathons it's really hard to get excited for a 5k know what I mean when you do your keep hammering 5k how boring the hell for you I to me this more about the people then right yeah it's not for me I'm not you know that stupid race is the reason when

70:45I got started running I couldn't believe how hard it was to do with zero running folks zero I ran zero and then I ran a 5k yeah and at the end of that was like okay I got to start running yeah and it feels great now right does it does there's there's nothing nothing that feels better to me than bid all to run I mean you know what's crazy is my endurance for kickboxing it's way better yeah I mean way better way better like I could do a hard three-minute round no problem yeah and it's just from running these hills I think it changes your lung capacity lungs just expand yeah contract and you just used to get any more oxygen in there I guess oh yeah well those trip you've seen those trails that I'm running on to it so they're so steep it's so much of it is just pushing pushing pushing pushing it's like you're sprinting up these hills yeah and your body is just used to those bursts you

71:37know and so now when I go crazy on the heavy bag and then the Bell will go off and like oh no good it's crazy that's amazing it's and it does so much for your legs too oh yeah you know people always ask you know what I do for legs seems like I just run mountains I mean it is you know yeah there was a famous kickboxer from Montreal his name was Jean Yves Terry oh he was like the most scary kickboxer in the world in the pka karate days and all he did was who'd run stairs like that was the the big workout that he and he wrote a book on training and you know what it takes to be a world champion and one of the things that he was saying is you got to run stairs mm-hmm he's like running stairs like been the best thing for his kicking power for his endurance for yeah I remember thinking that and he was talking about how just put inches on his thighs and it just it radically

72:32increased his lung capacity and kicking power speaking of endurance I don't know if we were but I will but Frances and Gahan oh he got gassed out he did well he tried to take ste pay out in the first round he that was his his thought was that steep pay he's not gonna be able to run it didn't happen it's not good yeah and he doesn't know how to wrestle that well he doesn't have a he doesn't have a long background in in martial arts at all and steep a was a very good college wrestler and obviously a bad you know god he took some hard shots too he did you know that's the thing about steep aid it's not just that he knows how to fight it's he's just tough it's just there's a bunch of going on there it's experience it's just sheer toughness and grit and determination and he also he knows how to ride out bad moments like the antis had never had a bad moment right he didn't know what the

73:28to do I think most people I know you you you didn't but I think most people had kind of assumed Oh Frances is gonna win this fight I thought it's very possible Frances could win the fight I thought it was very possible the Frances could just nuke him in the first round he's just so scary yeah yeah just takes one no I've never seen anyone in all of my history of watching MMA that's so terrifying with one punch yeah yeah he's just punching to his kicks or you know they're okay yeah there's no but he's not like you know he's not Edson Barboza or someone who could put you to sleep with one kick he's not kicking people he's just moving towards you throwing a few kicks maybe but what he's trying to do is hit you with those giant canned hams that he calls fists he's here and even when he was so gassed he could barely do anything I say get up just take stuff still one big tired

74:21heavy arm could do it oh yeah a hundred percent that guy still has unbelievable potential if he could get it together but what he needs to do and this is critical he needs to work on his ground game needs to work on his wrestling and he needs to be with a real top-flight MMA camp yeah who's trains him now he trains with the guy who found him forget the gentleman's name but the guy's done an amazing job of building his skills up you know in five years and the thing is Francis is so goddamn good that most people he spars with most people he fights with are yeah when buddy runs into the top of the food chain at got like steep a steep a can avoid all the dangerous stuff drag him into deep water get his get him diminished diminishes is endurance and his ability and then overwhelming which is what steep a did yeah but Francis can learn from that he can learn from that he can learn from

75:21that and he can get better at all those areas that he had problems with tired yeah but he can get the endurance is something you can work on you gotta work on all those things I just don't know how I'm sure he worked hard I'm absolutely sure but I don't know how hard he was pushed right there's a difference in she working hard and being pushed right like if you if he's training with a guy like Cain Velasquez for instance can't primetime Cain Velasquez if Cain's and his product ain't taking him down left and right he's gonna try to have to get up all the time he's doing rounds with Cain you're going through hell yeah through five minutes of hell and when that bell goes off to end the five minutes of Hell you're just like holy yeah you know you've watched the the training camps with Daniel Cormier and Luke Rockhold and Cain Velasquez some of the footage

76:05there's a reason why those guys are so goddamn good yeah iron sharpens iron that's right those guys are in there world champions going at it with each other on a daily basis and because of that that's what turned them into those monsters yeah they are today yeah Francis is just a physical freak yeah but if he was in that camp holy yeah that'd be that'd be amazing and it would be amazing to see what what he could do yeah I don't know the problem is sparring with that guy yeah like if you're if Francis spars the way they spar because DCA's they go hard don't go they go Lord isn't that kind of maybe too hard that's the argument yeah there's two arguments there's one argument is that that that going through that is why they're so successful in World Championship fights that they know well fine they know what the fire feels like yeah the other thing is that they're also in there

76:58get injured a lot yeah camp gets injured a lot but it's also there are so good because I got mad off Luke Rockhold Daniel Cormier take Kane Velasquez it's not you can't argue with that yeah one camp in San Jose has some of the best fighters that have ever done the sport yeah then on top of that Josh Thompson you know they had Josh Koscheck for a while and he was at the top of his game yeah some killers have come from aka yeah so you could look at it two ways you could say one they're beating each other up too much or two that's what you got to do yeah you got to do to be a world champion yeah it's uh it's hard to say I was still to this day when Kane was in his prime I never saw a heavyweight like that before uh-huh the endurance that guy had was offered a guy it's not like nothing you would see guys just be overwhelmed they couldn't imagine how the he

77:52could do this like where's he getting in the the second round would come around and have this look in the face and Kane would just be like like he just woke up like he's not even he's not even started a really sweat yeah yeah beat the out of him for the second round beat the out for the third they would just wilt under the pressure yeah you see those fights where I mean not not him but I mean even now or it's just an onslaught and you're just like man you feel bad for yeah well that that who was that the other night shevchenko that do you see that I was like can this fight get over because they should stop that fight long mudal that fight should have been stopped fifteen or twenty times oh my god is brutal yeah Mario Yamasaki said he gave her the opportunity to be a warrior that's what he said that was his his take on it oh man I mean he was getting beat up not

78:45just beat up the did you see the stats the actual physical striking stats the significant strikes rule and any one okay and Valentin she landed one like I think it was some unbelievably overwhelming number like 1 versus several hundred yeah in the significant strike Department like literally she might landed one pretty decent punch Shevchenko's she looked like a guy up there with the big hard elbows you know coming to I mean just like just guy sex as much sexist you know that's world champion muy Thai kickboxer so say a world champion woman you son of a yes I'm getting I'm getting read the right act over here you gotta be careful these days people turn on yeah I hate that yeah I hate that that did that really irritates me oh good I think I mean yeah why is it wrong to say she looks like a guy I don't know she's a woman son of a that's why well I just I was just talking more about the

79:52power no you just don't see women you know justice strikes 95 to - oh but you just don't see women like coming down hard like that have you before um yeah cat Zingano cat single okay just rare yeah it's rare when they're on that that that top position and just raining part it's just like I just haven't seen it that often no it's there's not a lot of women that could throw down like that and Valentina is one of the most well-rounded women in this porch yeah she sub Giuliana Pena off her back she you know she stands up and out strikes Holly home she went toe-to-toe with Amanda Nunez she went toe-to-toe with some of the best kick boxers in the world a world champion muy Thai fighter man she's just a beast man yeah he's all around just bad bad ass fighter there was an argument that she won that the for the championship against Nunez yeah super close fight I didn't think it

80:55was a bad decision but I thought it was a it was a very close fight yeah it's hard you know it's hard for me calling fights because I'm calling them I'm just looking at what's happening I'm trying to talk but I'm not scoring it right you know I don't score you score it you got to keep your mouth shut you should have a piece of paper in front of you and you know Eddie Bravo used to do it for the UFC he used to score in between rounds and he had a great system where he would put a line down the center of a paper and he'd be like one opponent on the left side and the other one on the right side and then he would write down like kicks takedown submission attempts and all that stuff and then defense hmm those are little categories and they would put check those hash marks and y-yeah and then he would go over why he thought someone won and what kind of score he had a very

81:42good system yeah and I think that's the only way to fairly judge a fight right unless yeah it's like Valentina Shevchenko's fight where you just go like what the yeah I gave her like ten to two I mean it was it was so overwhelming I mean a 10-8 round is a disgrace it's like a 10-6 or if you gave her just a 10-8 you'd be like who the are you yeah judge you you ain't God that was crazy yeah yeah it's um it was a bad matchup because that girl was there I believe that was her UFC debut so to have a UFC debut against a woman who's fought for the title against a world-class striker I mean literally one of the very best strikers on the planet Earth male or female yeah and just um it's not fair you know that was her first fight at 125 wasn't it Valentina's yeah yeah yeah yeah well Valentina fought Yoani on Jay check in Muay Thai and so she beat her I think I think they fought more than once hmm

82:47but I believe Valentina beat her mmm I hope I'm not wrong because I'm wrong a lot I'm excited for that rose now in unison you wanna you and Jay check rematch yeah yeah well you know Rose trains with Valentina oh that's what means barn oh really yeah yeah and that's a good camp then just those have notes to there to work off each other yeah yeah phenomenal for Rose and for Valentina was it's gonna be tough for Rose to come now as the champion I don't know it'll be interesting to see how if it changes at all yeah it will definitely be interesting and coming into this fight was fascinating to me even though Rose won by first round knockout she's the the underdog yeah well it's I put up that clip of when she was like saying the Lord's Prayer there and you're up there and you're talking about how is terrifying or something like that I put up that little clip it was that was

83:43crazy from you guys yeah before on fight night before the fight you guys are standing there and they're showing that yeah from the way in and oh my god that was classic yeah she was so in the zone yeah you wanna was talking to her yeah went to you up yeah up you always I'm the boogeyman she's talking on this crazy to her and Rosa's just going our Father who had named the kingdom come thy will be done and she was like in his own yeah well you'll want to put her fist on her nose and she even flinch that was the only one that and I said because they had something off about fighter of the year I think but that was I get fired up for all the fights but that was the only fight that I was standing up like I was cuz I watching it at home and I'm just like oh my god you know and because she was landing those that hard punches and it was I don't know is amazing yeah it

84:40was amazing amazing a lot of people thought she had a chance by submission because I mean Eunice is a really good submission artist and she's really fast like she'll throw up flying arm bars and she's wild yeah it takes crazy chances yeah but for her to win by KO like that i was like holy cow it I know it I was so pumped when Daniel Cormier just starts yeah is one of my favorite moments of doing commentary would be just being next to him while he was yelling that out because it was just pure excitement and appreciation and joy you know this happen time does he know her then - or did you know I mean they all know each other oh I don't know how well he not training together no I don't believe so yeah they're not same camp I mean maybe she's done some training a take a I don't I'm not aware but she's she's in Colorado she's is Trevor Whitman and her boyfriend Pat Barry who's a world-class

85:33kickboxer yeah there's a really good MMA fighters well when I remember him fighting in the UFC he had some wild ass fights he's a serious striker Pat Barry can crack I remember I mean I thought he was fighting let's see who was that and as I I thought he was knocked out basically and then landed one big or maybe it's the other way other way around yeah he was fighting Cheick Kongo yes completely out of it yes and they just went in for broke and Cheick Kongo caught him with a crazy punch of K Odom yet that was it I remember that fire that was nuts it was nuts but that's just how pat fights he's a wild man you know he just fights wild yeah he's he's I remember he was like thick and good punch yeah he's a tank yeah it was less ruthless leg kicks just some of the best leg kicks I've ever seen the heavyweight division those are those are those Lake it you know that I just heard

86:27you talk about the other day but those low leg kicks are a new thing nowadays mm-hmm yeah well Benson Henderson started doing that a long time ago he was one of the first guys that introduced it to MMA but he had some success with it but not like you're seeing today like you're seeing guys getting debilitated like really quickly that must be a new so it's a weak spot mm-hmm for humans I guess well a hard disease that more Thai fighters known about forever that MMA fighters are just starting to figure out okay the same is with kickboxing and karate there's a lot of karate moves that MMA fighters don't are not good at but karate guys are and karate guys come into MMA like Stephen Tompkins cousin Thompson's Wonder Boy yeah when Wonder Boy Tompkins Tom she keeps saying Tompkins because of shawn tompkins but Wonder Boy is doing things from a sideways karate stance and that a

87:24lot of people aren't just don't know how to handle like Wonder Boy has these crazy front leg sidekicks in front leg roundhouse kicks like have you ever watched his fight with Johny Hendricks it's one of the best examples huh he hits Johny Hendricks in the gut with a side kick and then Johny Hendricks is still there so he roundhouse kicks him in the face with the same leg and he see what John's like what in the cuz it's just something like submit see that in training yeah you can't like that you have to get a really good karate guy yeah and most really good karate guys he's just gonna be able to take him down yeah but you know Wonder Boys has got that style just dialed in and nailed and he moves like a snake from the waist like was backwards from the weight like he gets away from and fires back atcha he looked good in that last fight yeah Jorge monster doll yeah yeah yeah

88:14so that's a different style and so these these techniques like he's exceptionally good at those karate techniques and a lot of people aren't and so with Muay Thai most of the time when guys were learning more time bringing it into MMA they were doing a few things they were throwing the leg kicks they were throwing the knees to the body the elbows normal normal Muay Thai techniques yeah they were missing some of the subtleties so some of the better Muay Thai fighters started training with some of the better MMA fighters and then slowly but surely those techniques start leaking in I see and then the big one now is that low leg kick yeah down low leg kicks man it just takes out you can't condition your lower leg that's what I'm saying it feels like it's a weeks I mean because I know Michael Chandler he got caught with that and that's how we lost the Bell yeah

89:05killed the nerves in his leg and it's like it looked like his leg was broke yeah I mean his his ankle is flopping all around you could you'd swear that that leg was broke and it must have just been those like low leg kicks down there and just get out a nerve yeah yes it's amazing it's amazing how many how many fighter like Gilbert Melendez when he fought Jeremy Stephens Jeremy Stephens cracked him real early in the first round that low leg kick and you see it immediately swelling up and then Gilbert's just fallen down on it he just can't stand up on it it's crazy Douglas Lima and Rory MacDonald Rory MacDonald in Bellator right into the same thing right into the lower leg it's he had a giant hematoma he was like sauce going yeah yeah it's a devastating technique yeah well it's interesting it's I just love that I love when new elements get brought into this

89:56very complex sport yeah I mean and that's like yeah that that's just been a new one for sure but this Saturday are you gonna be at they keep hammering Ron this Saturday is a keep hammering run yeah where Salt Lake I didn't know there was one no no I'm gonna be here now remember that you went to that show yeah I did go to that show I just went to that show by accident the Western honey expose bus in town skiing which I hate yeah I don't hate skiing that I'm not a fan it's just boring you just dislike it a lot I just don't get it every time I do it I'm like maybe this time I want to get it there's gonna be the day where I'm gonna I'm gonna be in bliss I'm gonna slide down that mountain people are good cuz you know good I did it for five years I got pretty good at it I didn't get good at it like I couldn't enter a skiing competition but I don't fall down

90:47anymore I know how to stop I know how to ski yeah I just don't get it so I was there and then I was like what there's a hunting Expo and I snuck away for a day I had a great time with you it's like this is so much better yeah so that's this weekend that show Wow and you have a keep hammering run in Utah yeah dude where's it at it's a if it's the same place as last year's just right I mean we start at the capital there in Salt Lake Capitol building and then you run a 5k from there okay yeah so it's a Saturday morning I'm a big fan of Salt Lake I love that tattoo it's great yeah I mean nice people man oh I know they're so nice the best I mean I know that it's weird there's a lot of Mormons there I know people get weirded out by Mormons they're the nice people they're so nice yeah like I don't care what wacky you believe as long as you're nice that's it that's yeah just

91:40be nice yeah yeah so that's a I'm excited it's gonna be I think we we're hoping to have I don't want to think we had a few hundred last year so yeah nice this can be and then we'll do that Saturday and then we'll be back in September elk hunting whoo you remember that remember L can you know you don't I do we don't we only got two four hundred and seventy thousand views we're going to do a podcast when we get to 500 thousand what's it out right now Jamie go to the UA hunt YouTube page we might have to cancel this son of a well yeah we were hoping to do a podcast when it hit 500,000 but it petered out it did petered out at about four 471 270 mm so we got a thousand today so we just need a few more days good but in a month they're close enough yeah we're getting close yeah we'll hit it by them in a month hey and then then also this weekend the Secretary of the Interior

92:40Zinke on Friday is going to announce a a big I think it's a big win for conservationists and against we're gonna protect the winter migration routes for deer and elk from development so that's been a big thing that you know like I told I told him when I met with them back in Vegas I don't know when it was a couple weeks ago that it feels like we've taken some hits as sportsmen as far as the national monuments being shrunk you know and you can argue that both ways drilling on on the coast you know a lot of people don't like the prospects of that so I'm like man we could use a win and brought up the winter migration routes and protecting those from from any development just so those animals can get down and get to the winter range when food is hard to come by and so that's that's gonna be announced on Friday that he's gonna make that happen that's awesome and now you have a

93:41position there as well like what is your official position that's it I'm on the International Wildlife Conservation Council which hasn't it's not does anything to do with North America but I'm just kind of using that as an excuse to talk about North America it doesn't have anything to do with North America now it's what does it what does it have to do with with that that's about like the trophy export ban from Africa oh so international hunting basically hmm and so it it's weighing in on that because it's like if you go to Australia and you shoot some animals you can't bring the meat back well yeah but that's different yeah it's different well that that doesn't have anything to do with what's going on right now it's Africa and like with elephants coming back so when you can't bring your trophy back you know who's gonna want to go shoot not just elephants because

94:36elephants are a whole different category but who's going to go want to shoot a gazelle well if you can't bring it back yeah yeah right I don't know if those are regulated but it's mostly elephants and you know in lions and lions and they they reversed it and then Trump said that Trump doesn't like it which is fascinating because his sons yeah big hunters right right he called it a horror show he did and that's what got my attention is because he said that he doesn't see how conservation helps elephants which okay that's one thing but then he said or any other animals and I'm like wait a second okay you can't we can't say conservation hunting as a conservation tool doesn't help any other animals because we've proven here in North America it's that it's a model that works so I didn't like how he worded that and lumped that on together and I'm like was that I was was that

95:29just a poorly worded tweet what's going on here so then he said he's gonna look at that ban regarding elephants because you know if there's no value on the animals we know what we know what happens and if there is no hunting it's pretty much the death sentence of the animal well the we'd probably have to explain that to a lot of people that don't know what we're talking about but Africa there's a lot of animals in Africa that we're on the verge of extinction just a few decades ago and what they did was it's a very controversial thing especially to people that don't hunt but what they did was they created a lot of these game preserves where they had these animals and they had a financial interest in keeping these animals alive because people paid a lot of money to come over there and hunt them so now these animals that were on the verge of extinction just a couple of decades ago

96:17are thriving in record numbers mm-hmm but they get hunted yeah so for people that are concerned about the welfare of these animals and their their wildlife lovers they're in a weird predicament because it's hunting that's keeping these animals alive and it seems like a contradiction like how could hunting be conservation right but even in this country eleven percent taxes on bullets on hunting equipment on all the different things that people buy and this was a self-imposed tax that the sportsmen put on the purchase of these goods so that it would go towards wildlife and billions of dollars billions of dollars have gone to preserving wetlands preserving wildlife habitat re-establishing populations of animals and all these different areas where they're diminished right so the amount of money that is gone towards conservation from hunters versus from PETA or the Humane Society or any other

97:18welfare group it's not even remotely comparable hunters are making the difference there and we put our money where our mouth is you know we say we care about it we pay for it we we put money there to help conservation and pay for the biologists and pay for the studies and pay for habitat enhancement and so that's that essentially is the same thing that needs to happen in Africa is but it's it's weird to say well how can the United States regulate what happens in Africa because we can't really right but we can say we're not going to allow the trophies to come home so that pretty much stops the hunting in Africa so yeah we're not saying you can or can't hunt you can still go do it you just can't bring them home which essentially stops hunting without hunting those animals don't have value no and no matter how you want to slice it or phrase it or whatever you want if

98:06they don't have value they're not gonna it's gonna be the detriment of the animal of the species you know Kenya they stopped hunting in 1973 and seventy percent of the animals are gone with no hunting yeah it's very confusing it's as it seems contradictory it does and it's like you know I talked to it you know Zinke about this also and so that's what this this council was about to try to make a good decision on how best to regulate the trophies coming home and and maybe we can help promote hunting and and how to do a ride and what it means as a council so that's I'm involved in that I used that opportunity to talk to him about other things too but so I don't know I don't know where it's all gonna gonna lead it's it's a fascinating subject because elephants are endangered in some parts of Africa but Africa is in an enormous place yeah and in other parts of Africa they have a

99:06problem with elephants yeah so going to those places and shoot elephants to most people is a horrific offense yeah so but the problem is I don't I don't see the amount of money that someone has to pay to go and shoot an elephant it's a crazy amount of money seventy-five thousand that's a lot of money how many people are spending seventy five thousand dollars to go look at them or help them they're not going to they're not going to know and so and when you say well that money could come from photo safaris no and also with the seventy five grand to take a picture and for a photo safari where they have them set up is that they go into pretty much the same route so the habitat just gets hammered I mean you know what a National Monument or a national park here the most popular places you know what those look like yes it fricking dump so when you have those photos as far as they go on the same

99:55track basically you're hammering the habitat you're not getting back to the back reaches where the poachers are killing the animals you know that's still happening back there and then to get a pride of lying in to where you can take pictures of it they're still going out and shooting zebras and and Impala and different things buffalo throwing them out there so that so the Lions are they're eating so they're still animals dying but there's just the animals aren't benefiting from it so when you think of like in the bush of Africa if a farmer there has a crop and there's elephants getting in there thrashing his crop the elephant has no value to him well has value as a crop and if the animal if the elephants in there trampling it he just wants an elephant dead wants it gone so he's gonna shoot it's gonna lay there so you're not gonna benefit anybody but his crop grows that's what

100:44happens it's just very hard for people to look at it that way because they look at it like no I don't want an elephant to die and no I don't want a lion to die no I don't want a zebra to die and no I don't want a draft to die and when do I shoot that other thing that warthog that ugly thing yeah nobody gives a about warthogs now you can shoot war hogs and smile and take a picture and yeah people are racist they're a racist against certain animals yeah that's a fact oh for sure for sure a fact is a racism racism okay racism are you specious I am I sent you a video about that speciesist that's a fact but like people way more than I like goldfish and with regard to liens you know so if liens are coming in and killing the goats or whatever that the say in Tanzania that they're raising they're just gonna put there'll be a dead goat they'll put poison in it the pride will

101:36come in eat it they'll go die then no more goats are getting killed yeah all those lions are dead well that was one of the things about Zimbabwe right was it Zimbabwe where that guy killed that lion the Cecil oh I think so yeah that place they they had to kill a bunch of lions because people stopped lion hunting there yeah and so because they stopped line hunting there they had this excess of lions and they were destroying the undulate population so they had to go in then just slaughter these Lions yeah so the $50,000 per lion that they would have made that would have gone towards all sorts of different things protection of the habitat the the the different conservation officers that work in that area instead that there's no money and then they actually have to hire someone to go and do that job right and this is the argument about British Columbia as well

102:26that this is exactly what's going to happen up there that argument that you're getting from the people that are in the field that are out there every day said what's going to have to happen is you're gonna have a bunch of problem bears they're gonna have to hire people that you all these problem bears and it's incredibly expensive and very very dangerous yeah and bears are gonna die yeah just some of them some of them are still gonna die yeah but animals are gonna die you know I mean do you get mad when a bear kills an antelope or when a bear kills a giraffe or Brian well they don't really they're not over there but if they were over here you know if a bear kills a moose are you upset or you only upset when a person kills a moose Yeah right and you know in Africa too is so those animals are dying and when it's hunters that are doing it numbers are very controlled the harvest is very

103:13controlled you can take X amount of animals out and this money will go towards you know this enhancement of a waterhole this pain for the anti poaching you know which when I was over there was a thousand dollars a day to pay for guys to come into control keep the poachers out of there without that money none of that's happening so the instead of having a very regular did harvest number the poachers will kill however many yeah you know and let's be honest about it the vast majority of the money is going towards whatever lodge the owners of that for sure area but they're also hiring people they are hiring people but they have a financial incentive to keep these animals a lot it's very people it's very problematic for a lot of people they don't like to hear it and I've read this article this ridiculous article that said that that's not true that trophy hunting is not what sustains these

104:04animals and you know you can get just as much from a safari like that's not true what you're saying is not true that CNN thing handled it pretty well did you watch that trophy what did you think about that no I Hunter said some stupid yeah I didn't god you know I mean we talked about this earlier in the podcast you know when people say oh you just want to go kill stuff and this that I didn't really like when whoever the hunter was I don't know it's probably a nice guy but he shot a crocodile and he says yeah mother-effer and I'm like what is going on there I would have never done anything like that and that that seemed that isn't like the honorable hunter that I know you know so that seems a little weird I don't like crocodiles I might say yeah of my shot pocket oh yeah I'm here the one thing that scares me more than any pretty much any animal on the planet yeah I know I just I still

104:59feel a lot of respect for the animal I'm joking around most no I know I know but I did just seemed like a weird reaction to me well especially knowing that the world is going to see that reaction yeah I mean if he was just by himself and he said that and I was an honest reaction and who still had respect for the animal and it's just the fact that he pulled it off yeah it's unfortunate it's unfortunate as a it's unfortunate to broadcast that for the world to see yeah I mean I thought I thought it could have been a lot worse with regard to how hunters were portrayed you know I mean even the guy who killed the lion he did get emotional he showed some reverence there which which I liked it could have been worse they talked about how its animals are I guess a commodity in some respects with the Rhinos you know they I think that guy had 1800 rhinos didn't he own his property

105:52you know and you know so what's better 1,500 rhinos for him to have and raise and cut off the horns or zero yeah you know it's better to have 1500 right yeah well it's definitely better for the population of rhinos as a whole because people don't like the idea of raising something as a commodity raising wildlife as a commodity I understand me did you ever see the Loess through documentary about wildlife in Africa about those I've forget what it was called but you can watch it on YouTube that to me was a better piece and one of the most interesting things cuz Louie is he's a very smart guy but he's also a very nice guy yeah I just kept asking questions and pestering people and getting to the heart of it but he also showed like these fenced-in lions and they're throwing a dead cow over the top of the fence and the line I didn't turn it apart it's crazy I didn't see it but it's it's weird

106:45because the these Lions they're never wild like they're feeding them and then people go over there and hunt them as if it's like a wild lion yeah it's it's super weird I couldn't hunt in a fence I couldn't hunt a lion in a fence so I don't know yeah it it's not what we call over here in America fair chase right there's a term that term fair chase is synonymous with ethical hunters in America yeah and this is something that most people aren't aware of that there's a code and that cut the code very slightly like in some places you can use electronic communication meaning you use walkie-talkies to locate an animal like I believe you can do that in Arizona you definitely can do that Nevada you can't do that in Montana yeah you know there's there's different things of what people decide is fair change right or ethical and it depends like Colorado they won't

107:41even let you use a light on your site on your bow site can have any electronics right attached to your site for whatever reason they just started allowing lighted knocks oh that was just in Oregon - they've been outlawed in Oregon I I think I mean I haven't used them in origin but I think they are legal now but yeah I mean as far as so you're trying to define what is right and so yeah there's a lot of these electronics as for that but what we say is fair chase is not in a high fence well it's definitely not feeding a lion in a cage and then opening up the door right when the hunter pulls up yeah oh yeah that is what they do yeah it's one of the reasons why a lot of these lines that get shot they don't know what the is going on they're bedded somewhere they just lay down yeah as they're outside in this new environment like where am I you don't even know what it is because

108:30they've been living in this very small environment and they let him out and they let him out right when the hunter gets there yeah that's that's tougher to justify it's very tough to justify so I feel like it's it's it's not justifiable yes you're not hunting anymore you're just murdering an animal yeah so it's not murder murders a person No so I'm gonna I'm gonna not address that part and just address hunting in general and hunting in general is what's necessary for the the future of animals I mean you had until it gets down to a number where maybe the white or black or whatever Rhino that is that's only down to a handful obviously you're not gonna hunt those but by and large hunting is what keeps these animals the population viable well and then there was also the case of Cory Knowles who went over there yeah Knowlton no no no - Cory Knowlton Knowlton yep that I say his name yep

109:28sorry Cory we got it why did I say no but yeah I have too many names in my head but anyway when Cory went over there in Cory's don't talk about spa smoking you think but that's what people like to say right yeah people I do a lot of stupid let's have a pop quiz see what those boar but when Cory went over there he spent a quarter of a million dollars to shoot an endangered rhino I think it was 350,000 wasn't it much I think he's I mean it was a lot a lot of money hundreds of thousands of dollars and he said that it was undervalued and he said the reason why the bidding didn't get higher was because there was almost pressure on people to do it but he explained very eloquently and very clearly on CNN and when he did my podcast about all that threats Adobe said listen yeah that Rhino was killing other Ryan right that is why not breeding not breeding it was it was an old Rhino that was past

110:24its breeding prime it wasn't breeding anymore and it was killing the young rhinos he had killed a female that had tried to mate with and it had killed another male and it was they were these are this is an endangered animal and this thing was killing other animals rights they decided look we have to take this out of the population so what does money through it yeah a tremendous amount of money that can go for anti-poaching efforts and all these different things and so he explained it like I think this is this is an animal that they were going to kill they had to kill it because it was threatening this endangered population of only like a couple of thousand rhinos right right yeah it's a really interesting situation and people would like it if that wasn't the case they would like it if no the money is actually coming from animal welfare groups and from wildlife lovers

111:15who just want to see these animals alive yeah the difference is it's very rare that someone's going to give you $350,000 to keep a rhino a lot and so that that's a magnified example but that's pretty much what's happening with all the animals I mean you're not getting that much money but you're getting money in exchange for their life basically and it's for the betterment of the herd yeah I mean that's hunting yeah right I mean that's that's like like I said very magnified because you're getting a huge amount of money and there's only a few animals but you can it's easy to see hey killing this one is gonna save animals so that's really easy to see but that's pretty much what happens with all animals I mean your balance he not heard the other thing is they ate that Rhino and a lot of people ate that Rhino I mean they gave you a meat away to villages and people don't

112:02know you yet not only can you eat rhinos apparently they taste good same thing with elephant elephant apparently tastes delicious well do you remember in the trophy movie they they could care less what elephant that guy killed but they didn't like that it was small right do you remember that me because they wanted more meat yeah they don't care about they want it they care about eating yeah so I mean as far as the locals go I mean so we here in America it feels like you know we take up these causes and it's like you know we're the social justice warriors for the world it's like we ought to probably check in with people that actually live there right yeah they want you to kill the lion Jesus Christ there was an article in The New York Times shortly after the lion Cecil the lion controversy had said in Zimbabwe we did not cry for lions right I know I read that one yeah no that's and that's

112:59that's real life so yeah over here everything Lion King everything lives everybody's friends but Simba is my friend yeah and no one's saying that Lions need to die no I mean I look I'm not in favor of those high fence things and the way they keep those Lions long really never had a lion you've told me before you wouldn't have one no right no desire right so but you understand 19 and how it works and and how what we need yeah no it's just a weird facet of human nature that we've sort of boxed ourselves into this situation with Africa but Africa I think is like you could look to that example and and see how it is a very complex issue ya know especially let's take all the wood Steve Rinella calls the charismatic megafauna equation like giraffes which everybody loves like I had a whole bit about giraffes and one of my comedy specials that they're the one animal

113:57that you can't say is like is not better off in the zoo yeah because like other animals they look like captive I think they're contained yeah but giraffes are so happy babies freedom like I used to take my kids to zoo when my daughter was I don't even think she was two she's holding out of a piece of lettuce and a giraffe comes head huge giant tongue wraps around the lettuce and takes it from but she's giggling and laughing yeah but they're so confident in giraffe behavior that they let babies feed them yeah that's impressive now kids animals are you know wild animals you know don't know what they're gonna do but what I said was that giraffe wakes up everyday in the zoo and goes another day with no lion and just sort of wanders around the zoo having a they look like they're having a blast yeah but they have not a care in the world they don't mind at all being in

114:52that fence long as you keep chucking that hay over the side there good comment keep dead hate coming baby yeah it's good to go we have connections with certain animals elephants are a big one you know lions are a big one giraffes for whatever reason are a big one even zebras people like why are you shooting a zebra that's too much like a horse yeah we have these but if it's like an antelope like that you eat like girl that kind of makes sense yeah we have these kind of make sense animals and again warthogs nobody gives a about warthogs there's no one out there trying to save the warthog people don't even know how many there are they don't care to care less no this is that like people worried about lions and no one is out there wondering how many warthogs are left in Africa I see it all the time it's like people will comment not hunters obviously but they'll be like on

115:42my page and say well I don't have a problem if you kill deer and elk but there's no reason to kill a bear right what are you talking about have you ever had bear sausage yeah well if you've had bear saw and you probably have them but if you if you have it's goddamn good and why is it any different it's the same why is it any different yeah it's not yeah so it's just what there it's just what they're ingrained to feel about an animal I think well they they seem to dog like hey yeah that's a thing that's the thing with people the Bears just seemed doglike hello they're portrayed is being nice mm-hmm if people happen for pets to like there's a lot of people that have bears pets like a lot of Russians a lot of people a man on Instagram do you have them this is one as a giant grizzly bear that he cuddles with people keep sending me videos of this guy I'm

116:34like one day I know yeah let's say this video is gonna get dark god yeah look at this guy okay meet bear just chilling with this bird this bird my friend we hang out taking places and he likes my girlfriend and I rub his back but one day you ate my baby yeah yeah it looks like it's like a cool bear it's dope bear look they're awesome animals man yeah I love all of them yeah but here's a deal if you had a thousand of those living in your neighborhood you'd have to thin the herd yeah you just have to and the reality of all this stuff is super complex and I just do not think you get an understanding of it from you know in front of your laptop in Vancouver yeah you don't know for sure so I what I like is uh you know with regard to like this international wildlife council or even it just seems like with this administration and people say good and bad or mostly bad it feels like you

117:38listening to about and that's what that's one thing that I would read CNN I listen to fight it's like it's the same topic two totally different slant so it's like what the hell who do you believe so that's why I was happy to be involved so I can actually hear but still it's still hard it's still hard to to listen and think okay so what's going on but but both my whole thing is like I kind of look at it is if I got somebody online giving me advice or you give me advice I'd be like well Joe knows me I'm gonna listen to him that's why I kind of wanted to be involved in these councils and in this part of this decision-making because they can listen to all these people talking all day but if I'm there and can actually weigh in well then they know me and and you know my it might it should weigh a little more and they know your experience right in this and so

118:32that's why I want to be involved I'm not saying I'm gonna agree and it's gonna be exactly I want it every time but you know I don't know how else to do it I don't know how else to do it and I know that with my voice because you know they have trusted me about whatever even if they agree or don't agree at least get to share my thoughts and so that's what I did you know like when I talked with Zinke the other day what does he like that's what he's an avid hunter right yeah that's what you know and I've read all these man you would think he was the word just like Trump you know people you'd think they were Satan to some people but to me I read the outside magazine article on them sounded terrible I was like hot that's not good I read a few other things about I'm I'm like but to me personally is seemed would listen seemed like somebody who if we were sitting there talking about

119:29something a we came to a decision and it made sense that's what he seemed like like a normal you know well-thought-out person well I think he's probably got a a tremendous amount of pressure on him from a bunch of different angle oh for sure they're all interested in making money for sure and they think of someone that is pro wildlife as being a roadblock to the money yeah like oh this greenhouse loving hippie yeah tree hugging he what what he told me is he's concerned he wants to increase hunting opportunities and you know public land opportunities you know so that's it and that's kind of what I want to hear so I mean maybe what would who you're talking to I understand that but it sounds it sounds good I mean it gave me a better feeling talking to him then reading the other articles and the articles about him right so uh and then the his staff great people like I said

120:32just like we'd sit here and talk and it makes sense and even talking with Donald Trump jr. I would be like God all that I wish we could just do this right now because admit it's like you can actually come to a consensus make a decision talk it through and be like that's how it should be you know and it's see it feels like it's different politics are different because everybody like you said there's pressure from different places but it when I think of a politician I think you know special interest groups and these other people that that are influencing them and you're wondering why is this for their own benefit and so you don't really know with this it doesn't feel like that it feels like it's trying to make the right decision you know without being influenced I know there's always gonna be influence but without like the special interest type influence and I don't know you know I

121:21think the more people like you that are involved in this and the more people like you have a say or at lease or they come to you for advice you're gonna get at least a more balanced perspective mmit the potential hazards are what's important what we need to concentrate on you know I think regardless of what you think about Trump what people were excited about about him as a president would be that the economy would have an upswing and it did but lately the last couple of days has been a massive decline the stock market yeah it's been yesterday I think was the biggest loss ever I don't understand the stock market I really don't get it a bunch of throwing their hands in the air those computers they're doing a lot of calculations and so it's going on it's too confusing I feel like if I just went down that rabbit hole I'd be stuck studying the stock market for

122:12weeks upon weeks yeah I just don't have that kind of time dude I got to play techno hunt with kam hands well and I like I like reading stuff like you know stock marks at an all-time high everybody's making money yes I heard nothing but that like jobs like more jobs than ever you know unemployment's an all-time low Mike well you know when you have a guy who was just so hell-bent on making money in business it's good for business yeah right so like that would be the better guy like that but then apparently there's some downsides to that and the downsides are inflation and panic and then once the stock market starts going south and people start freaking out then it really goes south yeah and now it's really gone south well last couple days I mean it's that's all I live in the moment campaigns I'm not here for your rosy view of the future sorry I don't understand the

123:08stock market I don't understand it yeah I like I like hearing good news that's what I like hearing yeah I get comfort and hearing people that that I'm not wondering about what their intentions are so that's why I enjoy the discussions with those guys and ya know if I can if you know I just said it you know feels like as sportsmen we took a couple of hits we could use something on the positive side and I think we're getting that on Friday so that's so on Friday are they gonna make new rules in terms of what you can bring back and what you can't bring back no that's not about the International this is about the oh the corridors yeah so protection protecting migration routes for the big-game animals here that's what you're yeah it's very important yeah especially for animals like mule deer whose populations aren't really that good yeah well still need to be

124:01able to get out of the high country out from you know where they breed down when the what when the weather hits to get down to where the feed is and if there's a bunch of gas rigs in there mm-hmm knock me over do it never fought did you follow gritty Bowman on Instagram you do right yeah Brian was taking all these videos of elk in Evergreen colleges yeah wander right in town yeah and they're huge just hanging out in your cars I know they have zero fear of people I know and they know that once they're in the town that's like they're on the home base there aren't they're safe it's weird how they know that yeah you know no I know I did I did see that there's some nice animals in there crazy yeah beautiful people pulled over just checking them out and they're screaming and running it's weird that they just migrated right through the town yeah so they probably figured out a long

124:52time ago hey just keep away from the cars and nobody with you we're good to go but you know they have weird rules in Evergreen where you can kind of hunt in your backyard oh really yeah I don't know yeah yeah yeah if you want a certain amount of property I think it's like more than an acre yeah you could boom ouch right in your backyard it's got a full freezer then yeah I mean I think that's exactly why they made those rules yeah I think it's by section you know by unit depending upon where you're at right but in some places you you literally can hunt in your back yard so I would imagine elk avoid those places I would think so they look pretty good isn't interesting they learned quick well that's the one of the things that they said about reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone they figured it out after a while they're like okay like for in the beginning they were just sitting ducks

125:43ya know but that was in the 90s yeah and now we're in 2018 it's essentially the ecosystem is sorted itself out yeah and there's some good arguments that it's sorted itself out for the better yeah you know which is you know for the betterment of other wildlife other plant species at the elk word you know eating a shitload of so it's it's interesting but also you should note that where they brought those wolves back you can't hunt right is this the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem like it's all all protected right so maybe they needed them there yeah it's hard to say yeah just don't bring them Colorado don't do it there you go don't do it so what else are you going to discuss with zinc you know how often do you meet like what is this job entail or this position entail um on that counsel says there's you meet twice a year so I don't really know what what

126:37about or when that's gonna happen but uh for me and my whole thing is like if I want to get to know somebody I like to have them do what I do mmm like you and so he says he has a bow and I'm like you I said what kind of bow he told me kind of bow I'm like what kind of bow I said what did he have so Horrocks one no it's an old bow oh really god I can't I like a high country something like that something like that but I'm like II so anyway I said well I said you want to shoot that bow he's like yeah I said well I'll hook him up with Hoyt oh they can't take any gifts oh I can't take gifts so I said I said because I said that and I said well don't worry about that I go just shoot your bow I said how about if I come back and uh 2dc there and we in will shoot bows you can't give you can't give him a gift as a friend I don't know this may be from a company would be an issue it's

127:36pretty regulated oh that makes sense taking whatever you can only take bribes under the table take gifts the actual bow is that funny you could take campaign contributions yeah but not about yeah you can't take a bow you could have lobbyists that are on staff they're trying to get cash and working those special interest groups come on baby well so next a bow we talked about next week me going back there and shooting bows with him yep and talking just about whatever you know just kind of helmet melissa's form that that's right so we're trying to make that happen and I just you know like I said if you have somebody's ear you just want to be able to you know tell them what's important to you that's all I want to do but I can you do that generally better over something I care about like archery or right Ronnie nor lifting weights or whatever like that so that's my goal

128:29just to you know share what's what because I feel like I have a pretty good pulse on what's important to sportsmen and hunters here in North America and so I just want to share that well I know Donald Trump jr. is an avid Archer like he's really into it yeah avidly yeah and he you got a chance to talk to him - yeah yeah yeah quite a quite a while yeah he wants to do the podcast this podcast yeah so he wants you know me me and him can talk talk about hunting okay we're in dawn so it'll smoke weed first for sure for sure like no total normal I mean how's that possible how's it possible you grow up with Donald Trump as your dad you got a golden toilet bowl when that little kid that's what I said I said you know I go because I haven't met any of Donald's kids except for Don jr. so I'm like well but I follow him on Instagram you know you kind of get I do do kind of a sort

129:35of a feel for what the I said man I go you know in talking to you I said it seems weird to say but seem like it normal God which is your dad's a billionaire I don't know is he a billionaire right oh yeah yeah so doesn't that seem it seems surprising he's like seems like just like we would be right total normal I mean he's I follow my Instagram I see that the pictures of his daughter super cute the fishing pictures mm-hmm but I saw him on Tucker Carlson the other night and I told him this and we were talking in Vegas and he was like just laying it down for one minute clip on Instagram on Tucker Carlson was for Fox News and laying it down and I was like God I never really had followed his political or as his public speaking type life so I was like holy crap this guy's pretty dialed in it's probably the plan yeah how it takes over when he might retire he might I mean he's 40 so he's

130:33just kind of getting his feet under slides right in in that world and Trump dynasty just like they did with the bushes that's right just know all of them Clinton's climb bushes you know once you're in there it's like that's all they want it's not interesting it's crazy but he I would feel I mean man well that's what guy does that Don jr. was running for president yeah he says he Don jr. is very reasonable oh man totally funny if he if he says one thing wrong one thing one slip-up of a word which by the way everybody does every day I do it every day yeah me too one one slip-up of the word Cory Knowlton right one up like that and then this dunce I mean you know all this magnified ridiculous hate that comes his way and the attacks against him and people people right now listening this public yelling at therefore cuz they're just afford this shirt here's a show these are those who do that

131:30it's yeah yeah they it's it's I mean it is really hard not to get pissed off what's really hard to be unbiased it's really hard to just have enough balanced perspective and I don't think anybody does a good job as president I've never seen a single person do it well I've seen Obama give very good speeches I think he's very statesman like I think he's very what Obama did that was a was excellent was he was very composed and articulate and smooth and he represented a highly educated like a high level of human being in terms of his intellect and the way carries himself I think that that's good for the country you know but I think the way you look at the drone attacks look at the attacks on on whistleblowers and on the press and there's a lot of bad about the Obama administration that everybody wants to sleep under the rug cuz I think nobody's a good president I think it's a

132:27terrible job at it I didn't like how he he sort of started a war on cops you remember when he was you know crucifying some of the arrests they had and it started people were looking at cops think these the good guys are the bad guys I didn't like that because maybe there are some bad cops but there's bad everything you do every job has bad whatever so instead of highlighting the people out there protecting our interests and serving the public he was highlighting the quote bad cops I guess and it and put them all in a bad light I didn't like that whereas Trump he knows you know he's highlighting good police work he's highlighting the military he's you know pride in in the good old United States of America I like that so I mean I don't know yeah well the thing that drove me nuts the most nuts about Obama was that crazy speech that he said if you have a business not use the highway

133:24you didn't build that yeah you didn't build that business you didn't build that like that missed me that is the craziest way to look at things yeah oh if I was his friend I would said okay this is not the way to say no what he did I think he started like highlighted the victim mentality everybody's a victim whereas I like Trump he says you're in control here's your opportunity make the most of it I was raised it very differently I would have said if you have a business and you start it yourself congratulations this is what American ingenuity is all about but we all have to be aware not just you not singing that person so you didn't build up yeah who didn't do it I would say we all have to be aware of that without our infrastructure we would none of us would be able to do right so we all have to support this beautiful system right so in an empowering way instead of you didn't do it

134:15you didn't build it yeah you didn't do it taking credit away from people who work their ass off totally and by the way he's guy who's never been in business right just he's a lawyer he went from being a lawyer to being a professional politician to being the president yeah Bam Bam missus that's one thing I don't like is people who are like their goal is to be a politician well I don't like that I'd like it if they were awesome at it but no I like it seems like the best Pike even back in you know that you know when our country was founded it those weren't politicians those were guys who had influence who made good decisions and then they were politicians you know what I mean I've been watching Vikings a lot lately it's new show I've been watching okay and it seems like there's no good leaders in the Viking world there was bad leaders this leader suck nobody wants nobody

135:05wants a goddamn leader and when you're a leader of 350 million people or whatever the hell you have here tough it's just impossible that's nonsense what's going on Jamie I just looked up that quote out of context but he said it he said those two sentences but not in that way oh if you got a business you didn't build that hey you know a big fake news okay so what is the actual quote its way down I mean here's what's here the real quote mm-hmm if you were successful somebody long line gave you some help there was a great teacher okay but what is it if you've got a business you didn't build that okay somebody invested in roads and bridges okay here it is somebody helped create this unbelievable American system that we have allowed you to throw that have a that we have that allowed you to thrive yeah somebody invested in the roads and bridges if you got a business

136:00you didn't build that that's just a way to say it is care even in context sometimes that happen yeah not somebody else we all chipped in did some real I know that's what you're saying but it's a way to say it it's a disempowering way to say it is that's what I don't like takes credit away from the people that it's there's a way to do that there's a way to phrase that that needs an edit and and by the way how the could he even have time to do that when you're writing I mean you're writing under the pressure of being the president United States I totally sympathize I get it I'm not saying I would have done better I would have done way worse but it still sucks yeah it's just not a good way to say things I know I knew that I don't what you said you said disempowering and yeah that's exactly right and so it feels like this is there's a different tone right now and I'm not saying you

136:54know our president is perfect you say white people you like but I'm just saying nobody's perfect but I like that part of the message yeah well he definitely has that part of the message but he's obviously said a bunch of stupid too but he's also a guy who flies off the cuff I mean this you we have to take into consideration what this guy was his entire career he's a giant larger-than-life personality with crazy hair who puts his name on everything yeah and then he ran for president oh yeah of course he's gonna stay that guy when he becomes president we gonna know now that you're president it's like when you when you're in if you're playing Beauty and the Beast and you're the Beast you gotta act like the Beast now you got the role yeah the Beast right why you still acting like you grant yeah no you can't I know and it's the role of being the president is this you know

137:46this majestic top of the mountain that we look at like oh he's the guy he's the main dude yeah where you're supposed to act like the president like that's what they say he's not presidential exist like he never has been but you know what he's been a leader you know you know so here's what I know I don't see anybody I don't see Isis over here bombing the out of the United States anymore you know because they're almost they're all dead there's a lot well there's a job but they were never bombing to share the United States they're trying to a few dummies that snuck over here and did some stupid right here horrible yeah look the one thing that the military has said and friends of mine that are in the military and guys like Tim Kennedy that rejoined yeah he said that they feel like for the first time in a long time the military is basically got the handcuffs off yeah

138:38and that they are allowed to do things the way they think would be best right and a lot of people don't like to hear that they like to say well no the politicians are supposed to control the military and it's supposed to be you're not supposed to allow the generals to make the decisions right this is there's a debate back in this is again like a lot of other things this is a very complex nuanced conversation that you'd have to have all the facts of your disposal I don't know either do it but I can say they're not bombing the of the United States it's not like a complete redneck that's how I see it but I understand there is I mean what you need a Strider military I don't as though the world has some dark places and anybody who doesn't think thing that you need is strong military you need to pay attention to what the is going on in Syria in North Korea and a lot of

139:24parts of the world where they there is chaos and this is an entirely real possibility anywhere anywhere that exists it can exist here if you see horrible tyranny and destruction and chaos in other parts of the world the only reason why it's not here is because of geography yeah if they can get there they can get here if things can go sideways in Iran or in Iraq or wherever the it is they can go sideways in America too and if you don't think that we need military you're goddamn crazy yeah cuz look I would love it if we didn't I would loved if we lived in this utopian world where everybody treats people the way you were I would yeah well you don't have to worry about it if you were in our neighbors I would never worry about you invading me you know I'd be like Oh cams never gonna like bring a gun over and take over my house he's a nice guy if the world was like

140:13that it would be wonderful it would be wonderful but right now it's not currently right like that and people that I know like Tim Kennedy a guy who's been there guy who's done that got like jockle willing a guy's been there those the guys that I turn to when I want and what I want to know like what's going on over there yeah I want to get a real perspective you want to get a real perspective for someone who's been in active duty in a combat situation who's been to these horrific parts of the world right they can tell you what's going on and when they tell you that it's a better situation if the military has the handcuffs off I listen to them that's a good sign yes that's getting and yeah I talked to Tim at Shaw show and he you know I about going back in and he said that same thing so I mean I don't know it just it feels like I don't know it feels better that they're we're not

141:06having the terrorist issues over here anymore yeah I mean I really wish that everyone would come back home I really wish that no one was in Afghanistan I really wish that we weren't the police people for the world I really wish that we're not sending young people to die and in foreign wars that don't make any sense to you or I or anybody that really knows what the is going on there but this is the world we live in right yeah yeah you don't manage it the best we can yeah protect us protect people here yeah and hopefully protect people there too yeah you know it's just now that's why you got to respect the people that are over there doing that and you know it's just like you know what a sacrifice you know and it's a I want to never take it for granted that there are you know we're safe here things are going on but just what's the sacrifice is made by people in the military it's a

141:54I never want to forget it yeah it is a very controversial subject with people because if you're on the left you want less military you want less war you want less violence you want less everything and that that's a totally reasonable position but I think in a lot of ways it's like wildlife like you're talking about it as someone who's never experienced it mm-hmm and I think once you experience it and once you've been to these parts of the world at least my perspective based on the descriptions that I've gotten from people that have been there yeah that it's it's way more complex there are just parts of the world that are yeah no yeah it's it's not black and white that's for sure and I think it's gonna take many many generations for those parts of the world to become a better place for people to live in and didn't sort of catch up to what we think of as civilization in the

142:48Western world and yeah you know I mean you look at it parts of the Middle East where the women in Iran are risking their lives and their safety by not wearing a religious outfit yeah there's all these protests where these women are on the streets we're not wearing the hijab and they're walking and they risk being imprisoned now it's amazing crazy I know and these women are brave as hell man and they're out there just saying this enough already yeah and they're taking pictures like that and they're they're putting it up on social media and you know there's a big revolt there right now where people are just tired of it they want freedom yeah you know and they see what's going on the rest of the world they have the Internet and they get a chance to see what's going on in America and that's one of the things that we always have to remember about America yeah America might be in some

143:37ways and there's we definitely have issues but there is more opportunity and more possibility for you to do what you want to do here than almost anywhere on the planet Earth that's a fact that's a fact yeah that's a fact and there's more art that comes out of here and there's more comedy that comes out of here there's more there's so much more movies this there's a lot of great that comes out of this one spot yeah it's a it's a great place to I mean we're blessed to live here and have we've only known this you know yeah and I couldn't imagine living someplace where wouldn't matter how smart or how hard of a worker you are or how you know in whatever talented you were you weren't getting out of there right and that's how it is in some places and so you know and here it's not like that and man I just I just hope we never I never need to forget that and I never want to forget that and

144:32I just hope other people just realize that because it's not like I've been everywhere but I know that the the challenge is like the the women have that you're talking about it's like I couldn't imagine that yeah look one of the reasons why I'm Pro America is cuz I'm Pro human being yeah and I think there's more there's more chances for people to be who they really want to be and become what they really want to be here you know and I support a lot of left-wing ideas equality and freedom and gay marriage I think you should be able to do whatever the you want to do I mean go have fun just be nice don't but just do bu lets go bu yeah so when you know people see me and they'll expect see this giant American flag behind me yeah and though they think immediately uh right wing Oh conservative alright or whatever this is what is this yeah what do you support imperialism you

145:28support this like no I support the idea of what America is yeah that's what I support yeah yeah me too yeah so yeah they'll cunning September are we back same spot I'm going the Deseret is that is that locked in hell yeah that was crazy yeah that's a beautiful place now I know I was one of the most fun times I've ever had yeah well we're gonna we're gonna do it again I'm excited me too four hundred seventy thousand views that video was a lot of fun to make - man I just wish that they had put in the the out that you shot yeah you're elk you did wind up shooting out an elk but did the the video that did not get the actual arrow hitting it on camera so issue one it's tough you know bow hunting is hard mm-hmm bow hunting on film it's not harder you know and so it's uh you know we do the best we can to tell the story I don't think it does tell the story very well no but

146:31we do the best we can it is hard you know I mean she'd be a lot longer that's what I think I think I think that thing she'd been at least an hour and I think even then it wouldn't have told the whole story because you look at it like it's one of the things that I told a friend when we were watching a hunting show before they're like well it looks so easy they just go out there and they always shoot something I'm like man to shoot one of these shows like we were watching meat-eater first of all meat eaters one of the rare shows that they'll have a lot of shows where they don't they're not successful yeah like I've done two different shows with them we weren't successful yeah we just go out there seven days that's most hunting most hunting yeah so when you boil all that down to 22 minutes with commercials yeah it just looks like inevitably you're gonna get to about 18

147:15minutes in someone's gonna shoot something yeah they got it it seems like they're shooting things that are definitely going to be there but that's not that's not the case no now there's no guarantee especially with the bow yeah especially with the bow I and I think well I mean we can film on ourselves we film ourselves I think as long as we want that's what I think we should do I've been thinking about that a lot because I was frustrated by that whole thing and this archaic idea that everything has to be ten minutes long you're talking to a guy does a three-hour podcast yeah I'm talking for quite a while today and millions of people listen to this so I just I don't buy it I think it's an archaic antiquated way of looking at things I don't think it's right and I think this idea that people have an incredibly short attention span listen people are consumers of

148:00entertainment and especially people who love hunting i watch a lot of videos i watch a lot of hunting videos i watch a lot of videos on science i launched a lot of i watch hours and hours of stuff things that I'm interested in right the people that are interested in elk hunting they don't want to just see a couple guys laughing and joking around then an arrow hits a big bowl and everybody's happy no they want to see like what what what happened like what was the struggle it was a lot of struggle it was a lot of rain we did have to keep hammering that was fun that was that was that one clip was hilarious that was told by the way folks who listen to this or watching this if you watched that clip of caminar that was not rehearsed now that just came out of nowhere we were just around we would keep hammering he's been around a little while it's a long time

148:47it does because that's how good we sold it yeah that's how good we sold that thing yeah well that's your sense of humor then I think most people are not aware of that that's what you say that's for you you have a very funny dry sense of humor oh you know that was fun yeah we had a lot of fun so what's coming this time is Adam to Green Tree gonna come down oh where to Utah yes all I don't know this is listen Under Armor kick your together this is what we need Remmy Warren Adam green tree John Dudley campaigns me Ben O'Brian make it happen sell it wrap it up make a video an hour long come on just under armour let me film it I just let me handle this guys don't know what the you're doing no I I think ten minutes I know I think we can I just want to man I've always wanted to just share the hunting adventure just the real and give it give it the constant content the time to

149:51develop the story just just let it evolve you know do you watch those hussion guys on YouTube now I great videos are they good yeah and they got a lot of content yeah one of the things that you really get out of their content is you really get a sense of how difficult it is and mostly what they're doing is public land hunting born and raised there's that's another group of guys yeah I watched that I watched those guys too yeah but one of the beautiful things about YouTube is there's no time for writers ya know and people yeah I mean we are just kind of locked into this twenty two minutes for the commercials type thing from the Outdoor Channel and it doesn't need to be like I was talking with Brandon shocky about this mm back it and and he's so talented as far as the filmmaker goes and and even in Womack who put together our Utah I mean without the handcuffs of a time

150:43restraint I just think there's the skies - I agree - I think the story should be what the story is then just say just make it what it is you know I don't give a of its 40 minutes or an hour and 40 minutes people will watch it people will watch it yeah and the ones who don't they weren't gonna watch it anyway yeah the ones the idea that like you get it in 10 minutes and somewhere another it's more digestible in 10 minutes like stop yeah that's not real this is a people have these weird ideas in their head about things like oh but the statistics show that more people watch 10 minute videos well if you want them watch videos about babies chewing bubble gum or some stupid like that yeah yeah the 10 minutes but you're supposed to be showing respect to what is one of the more difficult and misunderstood pursuits in the United States right and that's bowhunting right it's incredibly

151:39difficult and incredibly misunderstood yeah and I think it's a noble pursuit and I think it's also it's one of the more intriguing things and more interesting things I've ever done in my life well I know and I don't know if you captured all in one film but I just know that you know if somehow we could capture the gist the more of the journey because there's people that don't know anything about it just like want to know how to get started I don't know if you'd have one film that do all that but I just know that there's people hungry for knowledge out there that we're reaching even with this podcast or with social media that haven't been ingrained so it's like we're making these films to people who already hunters already know everything right and so to them oh we got to do this in a short period of time of those you're gonna get bored because they've done this a million times

152:25themselves well that's know that we need to to make it for the masses exact because that's who we're reaching now I mean it's the millions and millions and millions we're reaching more people than actually by hunting licenses so we need to keep that need to remember that yeah and the idea that you're even reaching hunters that they're gonna get bored after ten minutes that's crazy now yeah cuz I'm like you I watch all sorts of hunting stuff especially you and me we're entertaining his role yeah like the what were we saying oh yeah with the with did chicken tied to the dog neck was one of the funniest things cams ever said he was talking about this guy his dog was my dogs killed a few chickens and I'm like how'd you get your dog to stop killing chickens he goes we tied a dead chicken to his neck and cam goes they should tie a dead stripper to your neck and I was

153:29crying laughing but that was that was one of the funniest things you said but there was one other one who was the other one we had a hard time remembering it remember the other one that you'd said before yeah it was even funnier than that but my point is he's got stand-up comedy timing that sounds like something that like one of my comic friends would have said oh okay I wish I could remember the other one it was another one that was funnier I know I know goddamnit we laugh about that the dead stripper tied your neck for long many times many times it's also - at the end of the day kind of exhausted tired delirious yeah yeah dinner yeah so it's a that that's where the timing is it exactly well it's like those hunting camps are so much fun like you at the end of the day you and me and band sit around laughing cracking jokes yeah you know the family up there the land family

154:20love those guys salt of the earth no Tom land and his boys they just it's just it's just fun to be they feel like family when you go back up there you'll feel that this series well he's a great guy the whole staff they had there was fantastic it's just an awesome place and it's such a beautiful piece of land you know this is 240,000 acres yeah and that's that's you know I know we're probably wrapping this up but so when you talk about hunting and conservation real quick you know on that piece of property 240 they could make more money by running cattle on it right do you realize that but if they ran cattle on it that habitat would be thrashed right there the water sources would be thrashed all those flowers the grouse that live there gone because it's just cattle but if the goal is making money they could just do that but the goal is is to make money but also

155:12enhance the habitat and that's you know hunting is the best way to do that yeah and it's it's just a magical place like the mule deer that we saw wandering around it's big mule deer and they have everything there all sorts of different wildlife it's just and it's gorgeous country - it is beautiful yeah all right let's wrap this up Cameron our Haines on Instagram and is that the same as Twitter but you don't even use Twitter really right now Facebook you use Facebook at all anymore a little bit people die off that right instagrams got instagrams got right now all right and next next video we make folks be about four hours long no it was 10th the video the hunting video we're we're gonna keep hammering we're gonna keep hammering bye everybody