Jamie Kilstein

00:05welcome back to civilization Jamie kills teen hi so a lot has changed since the last time we spoke yeah and for people who don't know you used to be the host of one of the co-hosts of citizen radio like super progressive left knee podcast and you were a vegan but now I ate a steak with Stan home all hell's broken loose oh I don't know what's happening I don't know where I am yeah I remember I was thinking about like being back in the studio and I never met Jamie before and I was like I read everyone's being really nice to me I'm like literally feel like I'm like this isn't this isn't a trick Joe sent me very nice emails and I'm like but I'm a very trickable guy and I came in and yeah everyone's just lovely and nice yeah man a lot of change I went into hiding I went into hiding I only got like a peripheral story of like what what went sideways all right like some people

01:05girls accused you well yeah that this is look this is the worst time for me to be like you know what now that everyone's talking about Weinstein's time for kill Steen to make his return why is he kill Steen it's too soon I like road ciouds like very like jewy and predatory when I wrote I wrote Stanhope okay uh when the wine same thing happened I was like hey man you wanna like push off this return he's like your friend yeah so here's what happened so it kind of started where I was a comic for years and you know as it got more progressive it got more into that judgmental territory I guess where you know I feel like I definitely became one of those people who would just be on Twitter all day and instead of sort of talking about real issues it just becomes like who are we mad at that day like who use the wrong word that day who can we get fired that day yeah it's

01:58Twitter mob stuff and it happens on the right and happens on the left it's just like kind of just people who were sad who just lived like in their box which I was like one of them right that's why I think this is such an important conversation because because you've kind of stepped away from it and you see it for what it is I think people don't when they're caught up in the swirl of it the momentum of it that it's almost like a natural human behavior pattern it's very tribal yeah well it's tribal and it's physically addictive you know like I've like gone back and forth with like drinking and not drinking in pot and not smelling a pot and I can tell you the thing I was addicted to the most was Twitter it was refreshing Twitter it was like you literally got dopamine hits from that like I remember when I first tried to get off Twitter I like I was fighting with some stranger in

02:47my living room on Twitter and I was like you know what this I'm gonna go take a walk I don't need I don't need to be involved in this guy's life I closed it and before I even knew it I'm like walking in the park fighting with some other guy on my phone and I'm like it follows you like if someone's calling you a they're calling you a at dinner with your girlfriend they're calling you a when you go to like your brother's graduation and you're just like refreshing it waiting for someone to tell you that you're good and sort of so that I got addicted to that more than anything and especially when I finally got an audience with like the left of left I mean just to be very clear it's not like I'm gonna come on this show and suddenly like do a Shawn Michaels heel turn and be like I'm Johnny rape joke those all had to come in you're just being a person well and

03:39that's what I like wasn't doing for a very long time is I feel like I don't wanna speak for people but I feel like with me I always needed something like to find me right where it's like I'm a progressive or I'm a vegan or I'm just jujitsu and whatever I whatever I would become kind of currently obsessed with I was sort of like throw the other away and kind of like all over that because you know a lot of times I would feel like a failure like that's really where the progressive I mean I still hold a lot of progressive ideas but that's when I went from comic to political it wasn't that I like wanted to make comedy my my like nemesis right it was that well I felt I feel like I failed you know I dropped out of school to start a comedy like 17 and I did the things you're supposed to do and yeah I did Montreal a couple times and Conan once and I had this year where it seemed like

04:38things were gonna happen and then you know I was kind of that guy that people were like oh we like you we can do anything with you but we like you and so I started to kind of make my own audience and the audience was great it was like a bunch of you know when that show started it was a bunch of just weird sweet nerdy comedy fans and then everything just started getting pushed too crazy but like when I knew I said this on Dougs podcast when I knew got nuts is when I was defending a trans person so already like a left issue like I'm doing the right thing right and I called this transphobic guy an idiot and we get an email that said uh while we appreciate you using defending trans people the word idiot is ablest and I wanted to be like you're you're a cannot explain lists for people people able is this making fun of people I don't know yeah I don't know what it means anymore

05:35I thought ablest was just like that guys in a wheelchair him but I guess like all these different terms these everyday terms like I guess idiot is ablest cuz I don't know there was an in a wheelchair no no no it's ablest because if you're not an idiot if your brain works well you're mocking someone whose brain doesn't work well they are not able to think correct okay you're an ableist Joe you're just out progressive to me well I'm pretty progressive I know I mean I look like a meathead and i espouse some right-wing ideas but when it comes to like social issues i'm very progressive that's why we became friends you saw a gay rights thing I did on Twitter yeah like you weren't that's why but what I saw happening I mean rub you but when I saw how many with you and what I see happening just in general online you know I mean I was on citizens radio when you guys first started yeah you're on

06:29our poster yeah but I think there's something that happened where people around the time of Occupy Wall Street things got really heated up yeah and people started moving way left and then some folks started moving away right and I really truly believe to this day the way left is what started the whole Trump movement it's in response to the way left yeah I think all these got together and they didn't like being accused of being or a bliss or rapists or whatever it is by the ultra progressives so they went far right and all right I mean the the alt-right essentially was people who didn't identify with these old men who were bankers but they also didn't want to have anything to do with these ultra lefty progressives that were calling everyone a racist everyone a rapist every man's a piece of oh I I did all of that yeah i straight-up did all that and I think one of the things with

07:26the ultra left and maybe this is me like you know maybe this is me desperately trying to defend myself but I think in a weird way it was harder for me and it's harder for a lot of people to see themselves slipping into the extreme left and so like what I mean by that is I never thought when I heard people say the extreme right is as is as bad as the extreme left I was always like you because like the extreme left isn't like yo yo bombing Palestine be like give us free health care or like let trans people piss in the right bathroom like you know even that like the shooter not in Vegas but that DC shooter like he was like a crazy guy he wasn't able s I'm sorry he wasn't like shooting the politicians screaming like you know I mean he liked the Bernie Sanders page but it wasn't like we are launching wars against Islam for Christianity it wasn't you know what we're doing this for

08:21free-market capitalism it was to me the extreme left when I heard people say it and the reason I would scoff when someone like you would say it is because I'm like dude like the left should just be like stand for like equality everyone has the right to an education everyone has the right to not go hungry to have health insurance gay people can do whatever they want with their dicks the end by bat and vaginas and vaginas only should be essentially like that on both sides yeah the right what what being a conservative used to be with small Gov and people having the government stay out of your lives and they don't realize it morphing only where it's like we will stay out of your lives but we'll be like in your if you want to abortion will tell you like whose dick you can suck abortion thing is where it gets real squirrely right because the abortion thing is essentially it's a

09:12religious thing and it's a religious thing it's a moral thing and it's it's also what is an abortion I mean you are ending a life but you're ending a life inside a woman's body well when is it okay to do that is it okay to do that at one day and as the growing woman's life matter more than the cells or more than well no yeah that gets to a point but initially it's like when is it defined as a life I mean if if the moment of conception if that moment if 30 seconds later it's an abortion like if you can hold your breath and then the baby's dead you know like if we found out that at the moment a guy comes in a woman if she can just hold her breath for a minute yeah I mean is that why does that sound worries murder but but it is look abortion is weird right and I'm pro-choice yeah but abortion is weird because like when you when it gets older when you're four weeks in six weeks in it's still

10:09legal and it's a little baby I mean it is a little baby look man look at it it's it looks like a little baby sometimes they have a heartbeat if it gets to a certain age yeah what's going on like I'm not saying that it should be my choice to define whether or not someone should do it or not do it but it's very disingenuous when people frame this argument as it's a woman's right to choose period and that's what it is it's not just that yeah it's also killing a baby I don't know man feminists don't like me anymore so I'm like coat hanger up I'm out of this debate I don't give a well it's it's a it's a it should be an honest debate because it is a very controversial and a very nuanced issue so it's not as simple as you know the right doesn't want a woman to choose and stay out of my body it's not just stay out of your body it's like what are we doing we're killing a baby that's in a

10:58woman's body at what age should that be legal well and I think that's the whole thing that we were talking about before with these like echo chambers where you know for the first time ever I've been listening to sort of like both sides of issues first time ever I mean since recently yeah well because like you just saw again you the majority of people like yeah I'll totally fess up sure like I didn't ask a lot of follow-up questions because your facebook feed is curated and your your Twitter is all of your friends and for the most part people you agree with and you know comedy was actually comedy now like I've been listening to like a ton of like backlogs of your shows because once I was just like oh he doesn't hate me I can listen to the show again great no I know I never hate and so but I started listening to the show and like hearing pretty equal you know progressive to conservative

11:51ideals and comedy was always kind of this cool place where you could explore ideas because comedy and jokes and laughter would sort of take the take the edge off a little bit you know what I mean and you could actually talk about issues and once I kind of became part of that crew that would even shed on comedy then it was like well I can watch democracy now and I guess that's it and I have my and I would feel stupid I hung out with journalists and hang out with comics I hung out with people where I was sort of like felt like the joke monkey and like the high school dropout part of me would get really lame but you felt like the joke did you feel like you had to be funny when you round those because because when I tried to say something like political or that I thought was smart it would just be kind of like hushed cuz I'm not that smart I'm not I'm good at

12:45like telling stories I'm I'm good at like I think listening and asking like decent questions but I was never like a intellectual and a lot of that crowd is and that's good we need those people right but I would I it was really easy for me to be like just shut up you know what I mean is this all in your mind I mean you're a human being right I mean if you're just talking to these people you're not an unintelligent person no it's just an insecurity that you carry around with you when you're around them yeah ensuring the reason I asked you this your show was sort of in a lot of ways of venturing into the world of journalism oh so that's where I was going that's right that's where I was going like sort of way back which was you know the the show a show started as a comedy show right it was called drunken politics before it was called citizen radio I think we changed it maybe around

13:43like Occupy but it was comedy and like we had progressive ideas so that's sort of what we talked about but it wasn't that we had to talk about it became this thing where any progressive issue in the news that day or on Twitter we had to we had to talk about that day right and it's sort of lost I don't know did she did it okay interrupting here but did it also you you guys went to a sort of a subscription service no we actually you know the thing I'm really proud of about that show and and why I'm definitely bummed out I lost a lot of those fans or whatever was we we started ages ago we're we were pretty early on with podcasts and we never had commercials and we never had you didn't really get anything if you paid it was voluntary it was like a shitty version of NPR where it was like everybody gets the show for free right it was like ass trying to be socialist everyone gets the show for

14:39free if you can't afford five dollars a month ten dollars a month fifty dollars people do that way yes Sam Harris does that totally yeah yeah we just didn't really have like we couldn't afford to send you like a tote bag or whatever but yeah so it wasn't a pay model everything we said anybody could hear we occasionally did like little like goofy bonus shows for like subscribers but that is it that was the question so yeah um there was some shows that only people who subscribe yeah not almost not a lot though yeah and it was five days a week - it was a lot that's another thing when you're doing a show five days a week you got a dig for things to be like pissed off about to not be redundant yeah I've done five-day-a-week shows and I don't think I'm at my best five days a week I think four days a week is where I like start to break down yeah anything after four days a week

15:21unless I'm doing like fight companions which are just a goof that's just hanging out and watching fights that's easy yeah you don't want to get stale aboard you don't want to force it into being a job and I think what I got out of you was that you were you were getting a lot of praise and you were you were being hailed like I saw Jezebel wrote something where they called you and a great example of an ally oh that was pre this year Gaza Bell yeah but I mean but that expression was is a very odd expression I mean I hate to sound like this in disingenuous egalitarian but I really do believe this I mean we are we should be allies to each other we all should be we did this idea that like there's a goddamn team war going on yeah Jamie kill Steen is out there bucking for the female that's what it's like it's like that's what they yeah they reward that yeah this is the thing

16:15it's like some and this is not the single out Jezebel because I think they've got some great writers sure yes there's there's something that happens with people when you write a lot of mean very critical stuff and you you become this this attack machine and this is how you promote your ideas this is how you push your agenda by attacking people that some of them deserve it for sure some of them are definitely but it becomes almost like the currency that you dealing yeah and that goes back to the insecurities right by the way but let me finish laughs I'm sorry is that when when you're an attack machine like that and not saying that Jezebel is but there's a lot of the blogs that are attack machines when you're attack machine and if you can be an ally on the other side or not even on the other side but an ally to the attack machine like and then they single you out as that it

17:12gives you this feeling like oh I'm not going to get attacked by them this is good and you reinforce that behavior by ramping up the types of things that you say that they like yeah they appreciate and it becomes a sort of weird exchange yeah where you know it's like imply like I think this is what a lot of what goes on in political circles as well like there's not as much bribery as there is an understanding that if you do what we want you to do and you say what we want you to do then you're in then you're on the good side yeah and that goes back to that insecurity and I think a lot of people are insecure I know we're all insecure everyone and when you do find that tribe yes and you do find people who are going yeah and the the more you attack on Twitter because not just blogs like remember like individuals on Twitter like me like when I would see like who's getting

18:03piled on today right okay cool this writer wrote something about mansplaining don't need to read the article what's the hashtag that's the hashtag I'm gonna say the meanest funny thing because I'm a comic and I'm funnier than journalists and then famous people are gonna retweet me or fave me and then I get to feel like a civil rights hero that's what what happened where like I would literally tweet even if I'd not even a joke even if I tweeted somebody sincere and this like sucks to admit but even if I tweeted something like hashtag black lives matter I'm refreshing that to be like - Questlove favorite it you know what I mean like I'm not doing it to be you know and then you can feel good about yourself then you can go not saying I did this but you can go on the street and you can ignore the homeless person and you can cross the street when you see like the scary black

18:46guy because you're just like well I'm technically the Rosa Parks of Twitter because I tweeted that joke at that writer who said that thing that no one's going to remember tomorrow but we were all angry about today Jesus Christ this is the first time I've had caveman I got adderall offered to me before the stanhope podcast and he came up to me afterwards and was like man you talked a lot that adderall you up and I was like I didn't take it but I had it in my pocket being spazzy so I think what happens is so yeah so you got that validation right yeah you get the validation and it's essentially it's an exchange and it was an exchange I'm talking about with Twitter being like this you get this dopamine rush every time you tweet and refresh and it's one of the main reasons why I don't interact with people online very much yeah very rare that I do and when I do I'm almost always civil yeah

19:46cuz I just don't think that unless it's one of my friends and I could call Bert a dork because he called himself the Machine that like come on dude I'm the Machine like I love him so much years ago let that go Bert got a move on I but I mean that's just fake no no yeah and I am I was gonna say off that with man just a sort of sidebar with Twitter when all that happened to me and I got off all social media well you didn't explain what happened oh right oh right okay so you're the super vegan yeah and again like the ideas at their core right sexism is bad rapes bed like this shouldn't be controversial issues but when you take it to that extreme that you were talking about where you're looking to sort of like who can I call a success today can I call the races today that's the thing it's like it's it becomes an attack machine yeah and yeah my my dad said that yesterday he's like if you go

20:47on the show you should say you're not gonna be an attack machine I'm like what a dorky thing to say I swear to god I'm out to myself and I can be like yeah alright Brogan a great new you and my pops he's gonna be very excited so yeah so that happened and what you were saying with the the ally title I was never comfortable with a lot of the the stuff I got thrown into you know I was constantly saying either the wrong or offensive things on the show that we would have to do try to be funny because I'm trying to be funny and we would have to stop and edit it out I would feel like a idiot and and I remember I did a college once and it was the first time it's ever happened like usually they you know they introduced you by my like measly credits like they would be like he did Conan once and this time the the woman at the college introduced me she didn't give any comedy credits she's goes our

21:47headliner tonight is a male feminist and I remember going into the mic and being like that makes me sound like a rapist like it sounds so creepy and that's what I was like labeling myself that was a label that was thrown at me and in my head I'm like oh I don't hate women so I guess sure but male feminist sounds like you're like cruising around in like a male feminist van like who wants equal pay like it sounds so creepy but I took it cuz there there is so much sexism on the other side that you're like I guess man I guess being an ally is good right that's like you're defending people but then it gets to this level where you're like I got to renew my ally dues and call somebody a rapist and that's where got stuck so and then this so this is where it bit me in the ass so I come on this show we have the argument about sexism I'm like great well we had we had a discussion about

22:39Daniel Tosh that's a rare chance when Daniel Tosh made a rape joke yeah and also there was this this weird definition that people like to use and I'm sure you're probably aware the actual definition now of like how many rapes actually occur right which is it all came from a study that kind of I want to I want to say was out of the University of Arizona but I forget where the study was but they essentially looked at almost any uncomfortable interaction between a man and a woman unwanted or remorseful sex was rape a lot a lot of different things sex while intoxicated was rape there's a lot of different things that they use to define sex where they got to this one in five well and this is another reason we need to have the conversation right because like remorseful I don't know what that definition is but that doesn't sound like I mean many people have had sex I'm

23:31sure you have in the afterwards like what doing yeah some people want to call that rape yeah but like if you're blackout drunken like the dudes not like okay that is but if we can't have the conversation and the girls not did you get raped right cuz that's happened to me right that's happened to me too yeah straight up has a girl ever hit you yeah that girl swing at me I got Telegraph it they do they wind up and and they're and they're yelling which I've been told that's what they tell you to do in Krav Maga but they yell why they do and I'm like here you can't yell before you throw a punch I'm gonna know the punch is coming but these are stories that like I couldn't even tell like I had a girlfriend try to beat the out of me when I was when I was like 20 years old but it happened at the same time so I swear to god I'm just dodging what happened we'll get to it after this I she I was

24:23breaking up with her but it was at the same time that you remembered IFAs there was like child services typhus that's what that was the acronym like I don't know maybe was just like a jersey thing but it was child services essentially was at our house to do like an inspection essentially to be like is it fit to have kids here because like my house was a disaster back in the day why did they do it guys thinking about having a baby no no no no no we had like alcoholism in the family and like neighbors were complaining and screaming and like I was a train wreck and the worldview um I was like oh no I guess I was like 19 but I was still living at home okay and I'm 105 so I'm the oldest of five so this guy so I'm breaking up with my girlfriend not knowing that this like typhus random inspection is gonna happen and this guy comes over and he's like older African

25:15guy and he's sitting with my dad on the couch African American or African African African and Saudi accent and every dad's the one I'm allowed to laugh at that now there's so many words I can say now it's a good time to be alive ah oh my god I was with my friend the first time I hung out with a comic this guy Luis Gomez do you know how yeah so I was with Luis and we were hanging out in LA and I was telling him I think I want to do comedy again and he he made a joke with the word fingering in it and I started laughing like a kid and I'm like I forgot how funny the word fingering is as a funny word do it I felt like I came out of like a comedy coma I was like all fingering and and can't like there's so many good anyway so so my girlfriend so I'm breaking up with her right and she starts like swinging at me but you think you can't break up with me like bah bah bah and I was just like I was

26:08like hey we can talk about this later but like there's a guy downstairs who is going to with a hilarious access who's gonna take back take my brothers you have to like stop and she's swinging at me and swinging nope and she's screaming juice she was like are you so I beat the out of her and she has a bell wrote about it and that's what happened so I'm just like kind of like covering up and I'm like you have to stop they're gonna take my baby brother she storms off and I go downstairs and this guy from Services is there and I look at him and I be out of like tears in my eyes I'm like please don't take my brother's like she doesn't live here she's just my girlfriend I broke up with her she's never gonna be here again like I'm so sorry about that and he just looks to me and he goes and my dad and he just goes women are crazy aren't they and I was just like all right that was it he

26:50didn't give us a did not he was like I've seen that before and like she got to leave yeah it was kind of lucky I got lucky but an angry woman could have an angry woman and we all would have been in jail okay so I am known as this male feminist which again and it kind of becomes my thing so I go on your show we argue about it because I'm like I don't have comic friends anymore so I take this side and I didn't hear all about the rape joke like I just heard all the whole Daniel Tosh story I heard at the Stanhope show for the first time because the articles I read don't have the nuanced parts right so all like let's explain what actually has not supposed to be on stage that night Daniel Tosh was just hanging out The Laugh Factory and his good friend dawn my rare I asked him to go up and he said I'll go okay I don't have anything to talk but he goes on stage everybody goes

27:46crazy oh my god Daniel Tosh is here this is amazing and he goes look he was I don't have any material I'm not even supposed to be up here so what do you guys want to talk about what you know in some guy yells out rape and he goes yeah he goes yeah that's real funny sir what's funny about rape the humiliation that violence and this woman yells out actually nothing's funny about rape like very self-aggrandizing and he goes wouldn't be funny in five guys raped her right now right that that's the funny part like what a comedian does so that line was the the line that was circulating but even that first part not that that part was ignored conveniently the whole part where he's just like what's funny about it and like that's a good technically that's an anti rape joke right which is you know Daniel that's how he thinks right not he's not a bad guy no since

28:35the one that's a great way but that has to do with these echo chambers Romine hear that part of it I just hear the part you just hear the part that you're supposed to attack and then you know ironically I went to one of Burt's podcasts at the the same festival that all things Comedy Festival and Doug and Bert like this whole rape thing happened in the audience I don't know if you heard about it but like No all hell broke loose racing in the audience yeah so like I don't want to be the one to blow up the spot I don't know if Bert's gonna air it if he's gonna if he if he airs the the take off from work podcast or whatever it's one of the best things I've ever heard but this we call him right now yeah because I don't want to blow up a spot but essentially what happened was they Stanhope it'll just get people to listen good Stanhope started talking about rape and

29:23child rape and the whole show became very rape themed right and there was a girl next to me and there's a woman next to me my girlfriend who just started screaming like they'll talk about it and like said they ignored her the whole time and my girlfriend I would look over and then she would like have another sip of her drink and watch the show and giggle and then rape will come up she was like stopped I'd she would just scream but like she didn't she didn't shouldn't leave like shouldn't get up and leave and that was like it was so interesting to be on like sort of the opposite end of that where you know nothing offensive was really happening I'm like man I'm next to that lady from the tosh.o this is this is like my karmic fate and I'm just like she should go she should leave but anyways so I was on the not kamek side of that and by then I wasn't doing comedy clubs I was

30:10never really accepted into comedy clubs I'm just playing for my progressive audience at like a vegan coffee house like that's I'm just playing random like little rock gigs for like my audience so again echo-chamber right and I'm not hanging out with comics so when people are like why aren't you defend a comic I'm like I don't know man cuz I don't think I am one like I didn't really consider myself one and so yeah so me and you me and you went at it I believe it was very divisive I think half your audience thought I was a whiny and the other half thought I was a whiny who should get raped it was very one-sided nobody liked me I was I did not come off well I'm told and but I was like I guess I did the right thing right I guess I sided with women over over jokes and so from then on any comic that did like me didn't let me stop you right there yeah yeah you

31:06know just and I'm not trying to send the sake to me by the way yeah the sake of honesty the real issue came not just because of that but because of your characterization the next thing yeah totally so the next day there's a video out about it that someone put together called the kills teen delusion yeah and some of the was taken out of context some of that I will completely like own up to I watched it like once I mean at that point at that point just all hell broke loose like I lost my I lost my managers I was having like a someone hacked my Twitter and just wrote rape all over it and I was kind of why did you lose your manager they said it was because I don't cooperate with the comedy community to be fair to them I was like a pain-in-the-ass client it was hard enough for me to book and then every comic eights mean they're like I don't know man I think they just like

31:55threw their hands up and so the next day was one of those things where I'm like I either double down and like and I was like it wasn't like I'm like I'm gonna lie it was I'm gonna try to defend myself and give like you know my side to it and that I don't know let me stop you here real quick because you're we're going way way way back the the real issue this is like a year before more than a year before everything went sideways oh yeah yeah what went sideways and why okay so you're this super progressive vegan guy but what went sideways so an ex of mine an ex of mine I'm trying think about like how much I can say started it was weird like girls I was dating like she would kind of like pop up and be like following them on like social media and I kind of was like all right it's a little weird girls you were dated but you were married so what was also not talked about in

33:01these articles is that for the last however many years before I was like I separated we were in an open relationship we didn't we talked about it on the show eventually but for a while we didn't talk about it and which to anyone in a open relationship like it's a nightmare when you're not talking about because you feel like a lecherous cheating creep because you're in an open relationship well you don't talk about it so then when girls meet you and you tell them like Yeah right yeah totally when you go up in a secret open relationship yeah like you're full of right and so you know I like kind of did the road a thing but like felt like a creep and meaning yeah yeah and and then you know I was finally just like we have to talk about it and at this point and I don't want to on anybody you know at this point you know my co-host and I we were like we were pretty much just

33:59like really good friends right who lived together and did a show together and so years later years after me and a squirrel broke up years after all this I'm living in LA I had a girlfriend for a year it's like a very healthy wonderful relationship years after all this I guess what happened was one of these girls essentially started to try to find any girl who has been pissed off by me before and they found enough for an article that I think like two articles came out I left citizen radio because the show was getting a ton of complaints because our inner circle started to find out that there were quote-unquote accusations which the word accusation makes it sound weinstein ii accusations of so that's what they were saying but there was it was very unspecific what i read they said predatory behavior and I was like oh meaning he's trying to get laid that's

35:00what a man does like not predatory in the sense of you're victimizing someone or raping someone or doing something horrible to someone or even and this is when my own words kind of bit me in the ass because you I spent an entire year or years being like you know a hashtag believe women and then you read that you go hashtag don't believe one it's like you don't know what to do and like I was always like if you call girl who accuses you you know crazy you're just projecting and like you're trying and then suddenly I'm reading this article I'm like this is crazy and I didn't fall with my stuff on one article do you talking about the jamais oh yeah there was Jezebel article and hell hath no fury like a woman scorned man I it was really bad and I read it for the first time and I don't want to go into details because I don't want to on people who like feel like they were you

35:49know hurt or whatever but um a good majority of a article isn't even true there was one part where Jezebel even wrote it like if we can make it about journal isn't even say Jezebel cuz it's one woman who wrote it a so yeah yeah totally so this so the author there's one moment in it and I'll try to make this about journalism and not about the the woman but one of the complaints about me was I had a consensual night with a lady in Nashville who I guess because she like listened to the show maybe they're like that's predatory because you're like famous and I was like mom no one else thinks I'm famous but wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute they were defining as predatory because you're famous that's part of it every time Mick Jagger gets laid its predatory that's part of it that's what I don't that's the thing and by the way call me if I'm a Mick Jagger famous you can call me a

36:45predator if I'm I can barely get a plus-one to a vegan festival famous like don't please do not call me a predator well I mean look it's there's levels to fame right and I know you're being self-deprecating and everything like that but you did have a nice following and you did I've seen I saw some of your videos online we did big crowds so he's not know it's not like people you didn't have fans know give that fans but but the idea that you liking some woman who's a fan and her liking you like that somehow or another you're a predator because she enjoys your work is crazy well is that how they were defining it because I don't know yes and then but then it seems like did being very convenient their definition well and and and that was part of it there was like there was another one where it was like yeah the predatory stuff specifically was that and then what was even more

37:37up about the article was it said and I'm not gonna quote exactly she also wrote into another podcast and I heard this but essentially what the woman said we did not sleep together it eluded that we slept together it didn't say that I was in an open relationship but we didn't sleep together she told me she didn't wanna sleep together and I was like great no problem she's like I don't want to I don't want to go further than that you know okay so I was like cool even if you change your mind we're not gonna do it got it and then in the article in the article about me being a predator it's like I felt so safe and and and it was a great night and I was like this sounds like an article about me being a good dude and then it said but then weeks later she heard on the podcast that she was just a quote road and then Jezebel in parenthesis is one other author from Jezebel and parentis he said

38:28Jezebel could not find the clip right cuz it doesn't exist because I'm not gonna call someone a road next to my wife on my feminist podcast not only that you're not gonna say it if you didn't even have sex with them maybe we did have sex right so this is just they just decided to take this characterization by this one woman that's in in flavor their article yes and very unfair no and dude like so is this punishment you think for you because you somehow or another so that's why it becomes easy and and just to be like incredibly clear like if this woman was like hurt by that like that sucks man I've been burnt by girls do anything no didn't if she was hurt because you didn't eventually become her girlfriend right you're her boyfriend rather that's just on her sure unless you're Miss character no no no no stop I'm just I'm trying to be you trying to be nice and be nice yeah well

39:20I assume she is probably you know I mean she's probably taken out of context as well there's a real problem with writing things about people and one of the real problems with writing things about people is they don't get a chance to respond in real time to the things you're saying so you establish a narrative and then you keep going with it you write paragraph after paragraph with knows no one responding months later I Center - I saw like the the the woman who wrote the article like there was a request in my like other inbox in facebook that like you don't even see and that like for comments so like I mean I got she did reach out but at that point I was at that point I was literally googling boys to kill myself so I'm like I did I did not get back googling ways to kill yourself for real yeah for real so well just to like why give us on the article so here's what happened and this goes to

40:07your question before because I had called so many people sexist because I had sort of made my almost career by that it was a fun man when people heard about this like and you see the headlines and this is another like problem with like clickbait journalism the headlines look like I was accused of rape there was a one article that used the word sexual harassment sexual misconduct was in all the headline what is that I have no fat CVS I've seen that one about people connected to Harvey Weinstein yeah about Ben Affleck they called it sexual misconduct I put it what does that mean like put in something that you don't think they should do what's really crazy eagle and and I almost lost a job I did just lose a gig because when you gue come be it's like sexual misconduct stuff and like that's really scary and again I don't want to be like you know who the real

41:00victim of Harvey Weinstein is Jamie kills Dean but like let me just stop you right here if you say like one more time my head's gonna explode attitude I get comments like that it's brutal isaburo is it as bad as all right I'm gonna I just want you to slow it down I'm gonna use it every now and then with this coffee you're breaking like the like meter I'm gonna I do it to men a lot of people do it it's an easy one to do I'm gonna head so much to water but that word is a it's an um it's a people use it as I know I know it's okay I do it too yeah we all do it but it's just you know it's nice to know ya know it's also a very progressive thing like there's a weight like that people talk like when they're really progressive that like you don't hear like left-wing people talk I keep getting over by the progressives it's it's a way of appearing what's the word submissive or innocent

41:54yes yeah it's not it's not an aggressive way of communicating all right what if I said like but like I kept like punching the table oh my gosh I did it look I'm gonna like how much you know like gonna like step to me just smash up apps I can't um so so you got a bunch of people that were upset at you because you had embodied the quintessential allies so it was there nobody had a reason to like me or to defend me on 1/2 of the Twittersphere you had progressives who thought I was a sexual creep and then on the other half you have comedy fans who were like this dude he's the one who called everyone a sexist you don't need to read the article if you see a headline I mean god I attacked so many people without reading the articles right of course there are people to this day that would come up on citizen radio that I don't know why I was mad at I would just figure out the

42:53story as we were covering it and be like yep that guy I guess of course and so nobody there was no reason to root for me there wasn't a strong enough fanbase it wasn't like if you know a bigger comic gets accused of something well he has thousands or millions of fans and then this small community who accused him of something I had sort of nobody and when I burnt all the bridges and in comedy and you know I never just showed up at clubs to do sets and stuff like that I just had this audience and sort of thought I could never get fired you know like when when Ali and I sort of became more platonic before the open relationship I mean there were days it was it was so uh you know I mean I would sleep on the couch but there were days I would go on the road and I would not cheat and I would go back to the hotel and jerk off and like my orgasm was better because I'm like I saved citizen

43:43radio like I was trying so hard not to not to do anything like that and so anyway I lost yet there was no one to root for me I just had this small audience the small audience either thinks I'm a predator or they're too nervous to say anything well you fit the quintus that you you there's a classic view of what a male feminist is and that classic view is a sneaky guy that yeah like getting in tight with women and saying all the things they really want to hear and the classic story is that those women are never attracted to that guy anyway and one up and go and some jocks I'm a half a guy I mean that's literally what happened it's like yeah you don't say like do you but it's just this thing that people there's it's just well it's a cliche and I totally and I also think it was the homophobic politician who sucks a dick right there like right the super religious guy who

44:40turns out to actually be gay like Ted what does that guy from Colorado can we just say Cruz and start out yeah and so Ted Haggard Ted Haggard yes and try you have a bit about him and who didn't we have right and so this is what happens yeah this is sort of the the problem with acting like you don't have flaws and I always did I thought on the show my favorite parts of my show were when I talked about depression or alcoholism and we would get emails in from people who you know it said it really helped them and I wanted to talk so much more about that stuff mhm because I I do think it's important to examine your flaws but on a political level I held myself up is like an untouchable well I think you were doing essentially the same thing that you were talking about doing on Twitter where you're addicted to this positive response and you're addicted to saying

45:40these things about people and tacking people there it's a real problem on the left where there are people that essentially a giant majority of what they do is attacking people yeah and you also get scared about what you can talk about so one of the things that would come up a lot was like fat shaming stories on the show mmm-hmm but what also came up was like I love jujitsu and so we would get emails from people who were like yo my doctor just said like I have to lose weight or I'm or whatever and the first thing I would recommend like I would give diet advice and I would be like jiu-jitsu go do jiu-jitsu and then we got countless emails from people who are like yo I lost a hundred pounds cuz I did you Jitsu yo I just got my blue belt like I feel confident for the first time or whatever and then we were get emails counter emails being like I don't want you to talk about that

46:30because that's fat shaming to me and I couldn't say that's crazy I couldn't say because it would be fetching in the box that I had put myself in I couldn't say that I was capable of saying it I thought it I set it off the air but I wouldn't you see this is where it gets real problematic when it comes to expressing your ideologies like if you can't be honest about your actual thoughts then what you're doing is was yeah and there is a the the other side to the validation of once you find yourself in a box is the is the policing of it yes is validation on one side and then there's oh I can get kicked out on the other side right like if I say this word I can get kicked out if I say that like you should not come down on someone for doing jujitsu and getting into better shape than you if you don't want to do it I'm not saying this guy's doing jujitsu so you for being fat

47:21I'm saying this guys doing jujitsu we should be proud of this guy who saved his life that's not fat shaming and there's so much of that projection from the left where and on Twitter in general where it's like blah blah blah is that though both I mean it really is the ideology thing it's like you are unable to criticize anyone that's in your team because this is essentially what's going on yeah so they're using the phrase fat shaming which is obviously a progressive ideology or it fits right into it but for someone to say that you're fat shaming by discussing people successfully managing their health that's and that's where it gets crazy but if you but what if you wanted to you wanted to talk about yeah of course I did it Allison want it as well I mean I can't speak for her right but let's have conversations off the air but I was crazy I would have conversations

48:13about that you know and you know because you don't because fat shaming sucks right like if someone gets fired for being fat like that's the thing I feel like there's a middle ground and now it's a slippery road when you can't honestly communicate and this is what the debate shot gets silenced it's done and that's what happens you know I was listening to I think it was Sam's podcast with the guy who got screamed off of that campus Sam Harris yeah yeah Jordan Peterson maybe no no the guy that was a Halloween costume why the from Yale who is him and his wife yes and he was just like he sounded like the sweetest guy but I just knew I was like I I don't remember when but I can guarantee there's an episode about that guy who was just like I was defending my wife um I've given to progressive causes my whole life I just tried to talk to them and yeah he would raise his hand

49:05and they would call it like a in some kind of like microaggression or or I don't I don't even what uses you know what happened to evergreen evergreen stage oh it was yeah oh yeah I did hear that episode yeah yeah that's a that's a very extreme example where they were telling the president to put his hands down that's what I said because you're making these this you're being aggressive with your hands so he did put his hands down they started laughing right because that's what's really going on it's a game well and the thing is too it's like we have such legit racism and sexism in this country and I feel like we should be going after those issues right well that's why I think you are this conversation is very important because you're an example of someone who got caught up in the ideology of things where your intentions were good in the beginning but you got caught up in this

49:56whole left-wing spiral yeah that's the thing is if you go extreme right I feel like you know if I had like a big like Nazi kill the Jews like closing prop bit I feel like I would know I was selling out you know but on the left it's a creep man because you really feel like again the baseline of homophobia is bad sexism is bad racism is bad those are good things right so when it starts to creep into the language policing and stuff like that at least for me I didn't really notice it I would notice it sometimes and be like man I wish I could say this and I wouldn't because I wouldn't want to get in trouble and it bit me in the ass anyway and you know so the she was head stuff was like yeah I'm like I had nothing people on please stop doing shows oh I got I got a day job for the first time in like 15 what are you doing for a living years jiu-jitsu stuff mm-hmm and you know but if even this

51:02stuff like I don't want to put that job in jeopardy right like at least it's something I love and but yeah I couldn't perform I didn't because again remember like yo so you felt your audience was gone audience gone Oh straight-up I mean there was a Facebook comment I had to stop going online but there was a Facebook comment from the day before that was like just so you know you saved me from killing myself mm-hmm and then the next day when all that broke loose like you know you can like add a comment to your comment it was like you I hope you whatever same person same dude like literally added it to his comment but you need to think about some of the things that you said and realize that you didn't really mean them but you were saying them because you want you're trading in the currency of political correct left-wing progressive ideology thank you right and you were you were

51:50getting from that but you got to realize these other people are doing the same thing like they don't really mean what they're saying they feel like they have to say you I hope you die Jamie kills teen yeah they don't even know you well I think we have a real problem both left and right in this country with attacking people and I hate to say this but I think we have a problem with doing that with Trump because although he has done some reprehensible things and he said some really foolish things and his ego is ridiculous there's a lot of things wrong with him right but the the attacks on him and all this attacking instead of sort of laying out a better way instead of explaining what's wrong with it it's all insulting and attacking that doesn't fix anything and it's not going to and it also is gonna make his people double down exactly and they're not gonna want to either and that's what

52:41I that's what I notice that's why you can never win a Twitter argument right you have like extreme one side and extreme other sides like cool you're gonna solve this in 140 characters that's right the problem is also people start insulting each other it just doesn't work doesn't it becomes a contest it's like you try to do that and I go check and then you go check and then we moving back and forth and you're trying to get my king yeah and then like people's Twitter BIOS or like their whole BIOS or like here's a list of people who blocked me it's like yo man if that's your that's your resume that's your life accolades like that's such a bummer and I would have people block me and I never even communicated with them because I somehow or another I got on some sort of a list or someone decided that was I used that app and I don't know how to reverse it because now I'm

53:28friends with the legions this good guys and I was like I think I blocked every why it's called like Twitter blockchain or something yeah that's I would go to your profile if like all your fans are attacking me and I'm like this I go to your profile and then I click it and it blocks everyone who follows you it's not just that like people there's there's groups that people have decided wrong I've seen that that that is they decide your right wing or decide your anti progressive or whatever around like a headless and blocked by people that I'm like I've never even communicated with this person it's like I've saw a screenshot of someone saying as something absolutely ridiculous and I'll go oh my god I gotta go to this guy's page yeah and then go there whoa I'm blocked yeah which by the way you dummies all you have to do is sign out a Twitter and then I go to your

54:12page and I read it all yeah that really blocks someone I'd like what I found no when I found myself like looking through all those I was like I hate out of this so do i I was a cautionary tale oh my god yeah I will that's gonna be what my Edinburgh show is called cautionary beta male taile are you gonna do it in airbrush yeah I think so I always be a comic I did stand-up at Birds Festival and I was so fun I did it the night after Stanhope's yeah podcast and just you have like material written down yeah I had stuff about like this and I had been the first time you didn't stand up and how long well if you're not counting like the weird like slam poet II music shows I did like five six years and then it was the first time I've been on stage in a year I mean so first time you've been on stage in a year and the first time outside of doing because I saw something

55:04that you did well you you you were doing like what you're saying look sort of slam poetry where you take these big deep breaths in between each line yeah it's almost like performance art piece yes is doing actual stand if you don't pause you can't hear that they're not laughing my friend just you know you had a single it was a cadence it was like I'm a drummer and also when I wasn't getting booked like after 9/11 my stuff was really political and I wasn't getting booked in New York so I would just go to slam poetry places and I just made if I had a gay rights joke I'm like oh let's just do a three-minute gay ride chunk right and so I started to get booked but some of it was like really well-written I saw this one thing you did in front of some big giant group of people about the the Trump boys and oh that was a bit too live quality show yeah yeah all this should happen like

55:54right after yeah it was it was a real bummer right after I'm in LA my because I was suicidal in New York which I've never talked about publicly before before I was very I was very very very suicidal why here's oh I was just in I don't want to say like lovely I don't want to be mean but I was in like a failed relationship right and I didn't have friends and I wasn't doing comedy why didn't you have friends in New York I had friends when I would do jujitsu I had friends in Marcelo's like those guys were absolutely like the best friends I had right but I didn't have I didn't feel like I had like a career and I had a couple friends I mean all of our friends were pretty much linked to that same sort of progressive circle right when I went home to see my brothers and I could talk how I wanted to and I could shoot the and I could like not police my own language it was amazing

56:49I would I would go walk around blocks just to talk to my brother Nick like for hours and we would just laugh and tell jokes and like that and then I've had depression forever and I've been self-hating forever and you know this is not I can't by any means blame it on other people but I remember and this kind of ties in this is really up this kind of ties into what you were talking about with like microaggressions and and and stuff like that I remember I tried to open up to somebody very close to me about being suicidal and they told me that I forgot the progressive word for it but they said it was like manipulative essentially and you being depressed was a minute you'll do me being suicide by telling them I was suicidal and I was telling us you're looking for help right now with that said the the people who are like if you break up with me I'm gonna kill myself

57:41that's up right right that's like holding them hostage or making them feel like they would be responsible that I guess I would consider that's manipulative right well it's certainly not good to up it's not healthy yeah probably and but when you reach out for help like this up and so I didn't I didn't feel like I had a lot of people I had my family and stuff like that and that's why one of the reasons I moved to LA is I came out to here and I did a big show and it was great and I love LA and I've always wanted to live here so once my relationship ended I was like I always want to go to LA I'm gonna go to LA so I go to LA and then I'm the winter right dude every New Yorker who's like oh away they're all like fake happy I'm like no bro they're happy happy cuz it's gorgeous and like we're getting avocados by the pool and it's sunny and everyone's really nice Duncan Trussell

58:30was like I want to be in New Yorker man and now he's like that dude I did one winner I'm moving back he's moving back before this winter he's like I can't do it anymore man do it it's just cold and everyone's mean to you and you Jesse I don't like the mean everyone's so mean and jujitsu in New York when like in the winter where you'd be so cold and then you leave the gym and you're so hot but you have your dumb jacket on and then he had the subway and you have to rip your jacket off and you get off the subway and you're freezing again it's like right that you know what's the solution to that by the way it's non vegan merino wool what's merino wool oh yeah because merino wool when you're wet yeah keep every taint eat its it so it also keeps you cool when your your hunters use it it's not as yet yeah there's a company called first light L ite and they they

59:19make like really good merino will wool clothing for hunting and they're one of the first guys to figure it out what it is is it's a natural fiber yes wool and wool it's a weird thing like if you have a cotton shirt on okay and you get wet from sweat like say if you hike up a hill but it's cold out then you sit down you will freeze your ass off it's really bad like I don't get hypothermia that way but if you have wool on it retains the heat the body even if it's wet it's really weird so if you just wear a base layer yeah merino wool when you go out like in cold weather yeah you will get wet from the sweat but your body will retain heat oh man is it warm well now in LA I got to pull up the hens owes my little prius and go train say bye to everybody and get back to my car yeah it's not bad yeah you have to lay a towel down so you don't sweat through your seat yeah so so yeah

60:16so I moved to LA and I met my girlfriend and it's like the most healthy wonderful relationship my poor girl my girlfriend was a comedy fan when she met me and not a feminist and she saw me a cobbs I was one of the club's I would still like play me and I and when we first met I think she got excited that she was gonna date a comic cuz she's like a huge comedy fan dude right and you know we moved in together and she would be like you know this is exaggerated but it would be like do you listen to Bill Birds podcast not be like let me tell you why he's problematic and upholds the patriarchy and she must have been like and now once all this should happen I get to discover all these great people I wasn't allowed to watch I'm like did you know these Woody Allen movies are good and have a lot Manchester by the sea and it was great when I met you I met you you were deep

61:06in the throes or you were beginning your journey of progressivism yeah and you were you were on your way the first year we did was great yeah no no no that's not what I mean I mean but what I'm saying is but I knew people that knew you from back in the day like Stanhope oh my god I remember what kills team was just a comic comic was one of us yeah and then he let you assume this identity but all of us are susceptible to ideologies you know like Jordan Peterson had a really fascinating take Nazism about these these people that became Nazis and what's most terrifying about it is that if you were in their exact same shoes you are a human being and it is quite possible that you could have been a Nazi - and that is terrifying the Apple but that obviously that's a very evil ideology but ideologies in general we're all susceptible to them I've been susceptible to ideologies my whole life

62:02and it's I have a very addictive personality - and I think that's one of the reasons why you and I connect like on jujitsu yeah things along those lines because you get obsessed with these things and they become a part of your identity and I think for you progressivism was in that box it was in that wheelhouse yeah and we all crave the acceptance and comfort and and support and yeah tribe right yeah and so and again with progressivism it doesn't sound like an evil thing it's not like I was in a gang like no parents are warning kids like I hear Noam Chomsky blasting out of his stereo like that doesn't happen so you don't really it does it's really slow anyways like this I tried to ask him a relationship question just to change it up and he was like I'm not gonna answer that yeah and I was like I'm sorry wow I was trying to be funny at the end of the relationship question I was like

63:00what do you consider it was like love or like what's your whatever like oh no I was like I want to do like love advice with Noam Chomsky and it was essentially no thank you yeah I'm wearing sweaters that's it so it goes yeah he's got a very distinct area that he had for its yeah Howard Zinn I interviewed he was funny as wasn't Howard was cool he was dry yeah totally he was rude one of his last interviews at his house surprise a funny thing to say we're really old dude dude well that but that was the first thing I thought where he pulled up in his little car and he had his like wholefoods bags and he like hopped up the steps he's like come in now get your orange juice and I was like all right Howard Zen and then he died a couple weeks later like it was one of the last interviews and he was like that's where Matt Damon you still in heaven I was like cool man yeah he was

63:44awesome he was super cool like I did not see that coming cuz he just was really high energy was self-deprecating in the inner face dude it was awesome it was really I think I going back to this program one of the reasons why I really wanted to talk to you is because I think that this is this trap of falling into any idea I mean I know a lot of people that get really wrapped up in right-wing ideologies I think it's a trap and I think that also this this tribal thing that we do attacking people that aren't on that tribe it's a trap to them and you see it with it's that you get rewarded for like PZ Myers as a whole career from it we had attacking people on the other side instead of I think there's a way to get these ideas across where you're you're not going to piss people off and I don't think pissing people off is I think there's there's certain comfort to

64:32it but there's also people gravitate towards you because they don't want you to do that to them yeah and I yeah and I think everyone does that you know like PC PZ I've been on Twitter in forever but he was always really nice to me but the people he's also arguing against are also kind of doing the same thing too yes I had this revelation today coming in the studio when I was kind of like worst case like battle planning I'm like uh what if you know he really hates something I say and we're gonna get into a fight and for the first time ever I was like oh I could listen to him and ask a follow-up question like I could just because that wasn't an option before because you have your especially when you start going on MSNBC in these news roundtables no one asked questions no one goes what do you mean by that right it guys went on once and you were talking now this is this is one time I

65:20actually got upset at you yeah not upset at you but upset at the idea whelp down to the I you were going on after Charlie Hebdo and you were saying that the the cartoons that they did was were really racist and my thought was it's so what you know even if they were racist these people got gunned down and killed because of ridiculous religious ideology this is what this is about it's about not being able to draw a Mohammed well and I think that the you got wrapped up in this super progressive like defend it was so confusing to me because the term Islamophobia is a very interesting one to know because it's always used essentially on the left it's very rarely used on the right right and Islam promotes violence against women it is it's very in terms of like its suppression of women's rights I mean it's it's it's very ancient well all's ideas most religions

66:21do it's a very uniquely suppressive one know if you actually took the Bible literally did you know that yeah like the Old Testament yeah the Old Testament I mean the the someone your daughter into prostitution we're talking about someone who is literally taking that version of it in practice and killing cartoonists for drawing mahom so here here's what I think you should be able to here's what I've been trying to do where it's like I don't understand why you can't go well you can't go racist cartoons are bad right and hacky killing them is worse right you shouldn't you shouldn't kill people or if you go you know that Islamophobia racism against Arab people who you're just going to assume are all Muslim and not just all regret Muslim but all exactly all like extreme versions of that homophobe yeah that's bad but being sexist in the name of a religion is also

67:22bad right and I think this is what you were talking about where it comes down to well you got to pick a side dude it's either everybody's racist or every Muslim is a murder and it's like you don't have to pick a side and and and post this fall out when I've been like I mean here's the thing I've been healthier than I've ever been in my life my girlfriend is wonderful I wake up at like 5:00 and I meditate and like jiu-jitsu saved my life this you literally saved my life this year yeah being off Twitter being off social media has been great it's been incredible and getting to hear like getting to listen to Sam Harris's podcast command to listen to your podcasts hearing both you guys say like really progressive things I don't think people know that I think they do I think you were just in an echo chamber but I think be able to listen about what you're saying is pick the side here's

68:13the thing no one's running either side no this is what's going on it's not it's not like you know you're it's not like it's the Dolphins versus the Raiders right what you know like one team has very clear outfits and they're there to move the ball across this lawn you know I don't know what any of those words meant but I guess you really know fighting but the idea is that these these sides they're very fluid they're moving around all the time and they solidify with resistance yeah and I think when people here middle or middle ground they always see that as wishy-washy or not an aside yeah exactly but I but I feel like there is still there's good middle ground like the the the the racism / jihadism is really good right you can say that both are bad you can say that jihadism is bad you can say the profiling Muslims is bad I don't know what so hard about saying

69:07those things but also in in attacking all Muslims what you are doing is solidifying their position as well and you're making it very hard for them to look all religions at one point in time we're extremely rigid and like you said if you go back to the early days of Christianity go back to the Inquisition I mean they did some unbelievably horrific things in the name of God and in the name of Christianity now if you look at where more moderate Muslims are today you know I mean there's people that are reformers that are still that still consider themselves Muslims right yeah like I mean there's a ton JN Hirsi Ali I guess is not no longer considers himself a Muslim but Majid does mention once yeah a lot of them who consider themselves Muslims but they're moving towards a more progressive ideology yeah this this is possible but it's only possible if you if you're not attacking see if you

70:06attack then the more radical of that base they they lean to that and they lean to reinforcing their team well not only the more radical but even just the younger ones where if you are a 16 year old Muslim kid in America and you immigrated here because your family got bombed and Iraq or Syria or whatever by us and now you're being profiled and being called course races names here it's like that's how you make extremist yes and so it's not only is the racism racist but it's all so counterproductive and yeah it's like you are all these wars that we say we're doing to defeat Islam they're also creating a fuckload of extremists who maybe would have been moderate but now their houses in rubble they don't have jobs right 100% and they're just like well I'm gonna avenge my family and this dude says I get to go to heaven so yeah in this ideology and this this point of

70:57view it's applicable to this whole team mentality that we do with right versus left as well yeah and that in attacking instead of explaining the positive aspects of your positions yeah hacking the other positions and attacking and ad hominem attacks on these people and attacking their their structure who they are attacking them as racist as sexist as homophobic instead of reinforcing the the very positive aspects of live-and-let-live about being open-minded and yeah like being legitimately progressive oh yeah grass you totally and I think that one of the things that I know I did and everyone I followed on Twitter did in sort of the progressive world as you would like try to out progressive each other right so it's like somebody has a progressive take on the news how do I make it like dude what when same-sex marriage became legal people be like yeah well tell that

71:48to the the people Obama droned it's like can we just be happy about like one thing or it's like they're finding ways like everyone likes cory booker what can I find that Cory Booker did that was like up right or you know like the I feel like you gave another example but it's you know I mean that just happened with Rose McGowan a little bit right like she did this really brave thing but coming out against Harvey Weinstein and then people are calling it like white lady feminism and it's like the left is never gonna win if you you can't let the the rape survivor come forward without attacking her for not being raped progressively enough like that's nuts and I think that's the biggest problem everybody is trying to be the best example right the best example of being progressive and on someone who's less progressive than you yeah or the most oppressed right now ramp up the

72:40radical aspects of your progressivism and the most depressed is that we're saying the most depressed and like for like a white guy like me it was like well I'm not oppressed I'm not gonna start calling myself like saying you're kill Steen like I'm going to be the ally so I'm not a press because Twitter was a great tool and is a great tool where we won't have had a lot of like really big I think social justice victories without Twitter and it became a really good bike which ones well I think it became a good watchdog for the police violence right and I specifically Twitter and not just all social media in general do you think Facebook is more of an echo chamber like what are you yeah I mean Facebook I kind of just I mean at least for me Facebook goes a little slower and I mainly follow just friends on Facebook but I guess you're right I guess Facebook and Twitter social media I

73:26think the problem with Facebook is that people of the opportunity to be too verbose they can write these gigantic long screens and no one's gonna read it anyway yes you give people too much of an opportunity to be self-indulgent that's all I did that's all it is and you just see it and you see a word like you see a word like racism and you go I guess I guess I like it because I'm not like but then you also become I didn't read articles if the progressive person I knew shared an article and the headline looked good enough I would share the article and then that's the that happened to me now backfired where I'm like how many people are actually reading these articles reading the articles that say we could not find that quote or we could not find whatever so all this went down Jezebel writes an article about you some other people write articles about you

74:12and you just dropped off the face of the earth yeah so I figured this I'm deleting my Twitter yep so well I assumed I mean nothing I could sit part of me didn't say anything no part of me didn't say anything because I'm like I no longer I have to be a real person now I can't do shows anymore so why did you say that just because I felt like the the only world I knew completely was crashing down and calling me things that I wasn't and and I already sort of burned comedy and this is what I don't understand like I don't I don't see the big accusation we'll see them saying you tried to girls well that's what what happens is in my world and you know former world yeah pre you know Weinstein and like this is what real predators look like it was just fun to go after him yeah to go after me right but and also as you said because you had sort of set your slot about myself right and so my

75:10girlfriend when I happened my girlfriend was out of town I totally assumed she was breaking up with me so I'm in LA in like a little part of my cat my girlfriend I assume is gone my family's talking to me which is great but none of my friends hear something I'll say this about this is one of the reasons I came back to comedy I mean besides I always loved it and I missed it was the only people that reached out to see if I was okay were comics comics who I hadn't talked you in years none of the progressive journalists none of the people who knew about depression or suicide or whatever I mean I don't even know if they read the article like or if they just saw that word and was like I will get in trouble if I I mean Jim Norton who I knew when I was 22 I probably asked him if I could do a guest spot for him but like the stress factory wrote me to see if I was

76:01okay like you wrote me a really nice email stanhope wrote me a couple times to make sure I was okay and provenza it was comics yeah it was comics real comics realize that we're all up and I didn't go down your road but if I was in your shoes I might have walked on your road it's very possible and to say that you couldn't I would never be in that position I would never do that I would never say those things that's disingenuous it's not true right right I wasn't I didn't grow up in your house I didn't live your life I don't have your experiences your genetics your your your environment I didn't have those things if I did I could have gone down your road yeah and you know that definitely months later when I reached out to Stanhope I just reached out to thank him and I said something that made him laugh and he was like you could come back to comedy and I was like no I couldn't and

76:50you definitely could well yeah and he was the one and man after doing that festival and just hanging out with like hanging out was just Burt and like Ari and I fun dude it was so fun it was oh we do have fun professionals yeah that's all it is and everyone's with this podcast it and you know it was crazy my girlfriend said this where we were talking about this where those guys will ball bust more than anybody right I walked backstage with my girlfriend hug Morgan Murphy she said please don't rape me hug burped hug burped and you just said he's touching my dick he's touching my face and started running around the room and then they had my back so hard whereas when I was around progressives or when Diana and I were around they don't ball bust but they do not have your back it is icy judgment pretty much around the clock well they feel like they have to know when to cut you off if

77:38you do anything no you crossed the lawn right and it was it was so wonderful where I was like all I want so before that yeah I assumed I had nothing was literally to do no when you google how to kill yourself the first website that comes up is it's a lie it's they say like easiest way to kill yourself and then you click it and it's like just kidding don't kill yourself and it's like harp music and you're just like being rickrolled essentially about like a suicide like slide it's nuts and then let me kill myself that's always saying I was just like I needed someone I could trust in my time of need and they're lying to you and then I just started looking through ways where I was like I don't have a gun yet a gun I would now I'm gonna up dude with this happen to get a gun am I gonna kill animals I'm gonna ballistic how did it go from how did you stop being a

78:30vegan like what happened there no I mean I still am like I think you ate a steak with Stanhope well but that doesn't count right it doesn't if it's Doug how many times have you eaten meat since this all happened last not many say that I hate that I have to say be honest but I know I have to say hey look let's just go back to me being an accused predator how good last for that have meat that I killed personally you know factory farming you could eat that oh yeah we could tell you some of it yeah I'll do that okay you know through the woods no he's going to he's going to going to eat it here she we all do it together we could you know but I don't know when that's gonna happen I can give you some meat right now now I'm give me Peter not here I will have to commercial freezers back here TV oh yeah this place is insane it's pretty well yeah it's insane I needed a fun house yeah I saw

79:20I'm so excited for like the mats yeah that comes this weekend does it you know do that's great so this this whole journey that you've been on and this is again one of the reasons where I want you to come on I think we can all learn something from it yeah and I hope both communities learn something from it I mean maybe it's wishful thinking on my part but I really think like we this idea of right versus left is so goddamn crazy and we have more common ground than we don't and I think reasonable people think all these these core tenants that we we were just talking about like we think that we got Aryan they think that women should be treated exactly the same way as men that you should be judged by your character you shouldn't be judged by the color of your skin or where you from I mean the people that I know that are cool people we have we have black friends we have

80:12Asian friends we don't like especially the world of comedy the the only currency that you carry around is your personality and whether or not you're good yeah whether you're funny whether you work hard and when you're around people that are funny and work hard they those people are fuel dude they're inspirational totally and and I'll say this that I was not a good person I don't think at least to the standard that I would like to hold myself when I was just like wrapped up into this world oh yeah we are but you were using a flawed operating system yeah and also like but I was just I was just desperately searching for validation I was very selfish I was really depressed and ever since this happened I I don't I have not why I barely watched the news when people are like Trump called North Korea gay I'm like I don't know not to me like I don't know I don't watch that

81:05anymore you just step back I totally step back but ever for a full year yep but I mean it wasn't I'm saying this right now like I'm like you know I'm just like walking the roads like Kwai Chang Caine I was like in the first I forgot about him everyone's coming for the Legend Continues not as popular highly white is good no well but I was like different times yeah I was like Henderson it was he was still it was modern day he was still quite young Caine but his son was like a street cop if is the yes and so yeah so the first you know like I'd died with a dildo up his ass hanging by his neck retching ham yeah that was carotene that that wasn't that was not on the list of suicide options that still no in the ass hanging they think that he might have done something to piss off Thai gangsters because he died in Thailand and he died like you know what would be considered either a

82:00shameful way it was auto-erotic asphyxiation yeah was what they listed but what I've heard is by the way that means nothing yeah but what I have heard is that there are people that consider the possibility that he was murdered that's a crazy shake and put him in a wet suit and shoved a dildo up his ass and well look I can't I can't complain about my life anymore I don't have a dildo shoved up my ass by Thai gangsters apparently he wasn't a nice guy really well that host liked taking the show from Bruce I don't know how much he had to do with it but like what companies like Bruce Lee yeah he's probably just an actor yeah just like his people right and nobody knew who he was totally no one knew who he was he had zero power yeah that's very true Oh what I was going to say is yeah I don't want to act like this like hero who just stepped back the first six months I walked around like I was

82:48accused of actual sexual crime I had a hoodie and sunglasses and I felt when I would meet new friends I would sit them down and be like just so you know like there's something I've been accused of like I was a Megan's Law pedophile and it was only till recently or my girlfriend's like you got a stop dude like you are owning that you're owning that as like a part of your your person when you when you do this and to a certain extent I have to write like if I meet with like an agent like and they google it and they don't read it it looks shady it's not but it looks shady and all people do is they google and they look at a headline and they go oh that I don't want to be around that right but for the the second six months or whatever I feel like I have been my family is like this is the most present and communicative you've been I feel like I've been a better friend my jujitsu is skyrocket I

83:38feel like I have a family at my jujitsu school like I've become a really good teacher I read more I meditate more I'm like an awesome boyfriend like I have such a good healthy relationship and I don't think any of that would have happened if I was still in social media world if I still just woke up every day and was like what's the hashtag that I have to tweet about what are we angry about today because that's how every day starts as you check Twitter and you offers a popular hashtag I have to come up with a joke because Trump did a thing and it drove me crazy and there's part of me that I I'm like maybe I'm selfish but I I just I would rather be a better person now and try to be a comic I also forgot that like comedy fans just love comedy like when people came up to me after the Stanhope Show I wasn't political on the Stanhope show but they were like hey man that was

84:28really funny and I was like oh that's right like you don't have to be overtly preachy or political to like make someone's day right like it sounds so cheesy the currency that you were trading it I just thought you were trading and progressive currency yeah and I thought dude the best and if I ever did was a story about my dad and I almost didn't tell it and I was with Janeane Garofalo it was very political in New York and I was telling her this story that happened we were just walking on Union Square and she goes you have to tell that onstage and I literally said to her I go but it's not political and she was just like no you have to tell on us it's a good story it's about a relationship it's about your flaws is about it was totally about me being flawed and up and it was the the most enjoyable time I I had onstage was talking about that and as I want to talk

85:12about now is just like all the depression and flaws and fuck-ups and stuff like that well don't be a human just don't I just find yourself don't that box yourself into some weird category and that was the problem but I felt like I could only talk about that stuff you know it'd be like if you could only talk about like UFC and you're like talk about other well I've been very fortunate that I don't have to just talk about that but I think I've been very conscious about avoiding weird boxes now you know I mean I've been stuck in some in the past but I think that you you can navigate this world of social media but it takes diligence and I think that we're the first generation of human beings that have had to encounter this weird environment I mean this is not an environment that our parents grew up in no since not only there's like a body of if Meishan that we can draw upon yeah you

86:03know it's not like a lot of people have sort of figured it out over the last hundred years you know this is how you manage the winter know ya have firewood and you got to do this and you got to make sure that you drink a lot of water when you go into the mountains over to LA there's there's no you know there's no history yeah so and you be comfortable make mistakes you become really dependent on it it takes discipline man I was like I like logged onto my Twitter the other day for the first time to like follow you guys and be like am I gonna tweet anything and I didn't because I just like saw those notifications and I'm like there's some dark behind those notifications that like I'm like I'm not cool you just can't be reading it and definitely don't argue with people online no no there's no benefit to that I've almost essentially totally stopped doing that

86:44occasionally I'll with someone they had just I'm in the mood for it yeah the vast majority of the time my phone is like this no yeah face down I think I figured if it was like Jaco or Tim Ferriss or one of those guys but talking about like putting on an airplane mode like an hour or two before you go to bed and then I'm like not turning that on until like I'm sort of doing all that and I just feel so much healthier and like I'm telling you that when I was attacking people on Twitter every day I was depressed as and straight-up suicidal and projecting and I was just miserable and that happens it's a rush you have a community you have people who go you tweet I'm having a bad day and you got a hundred people being like dude you're awesome you know what I mean like shit's addictive like it's really addictive yeah it is and that's you know that whole sympathy mining is something

87:35that a lot of people do do oh I did all that you know sympathy mining you know virtue signaling that's like there's there's so many different things that people that are actually signaling again I think it's what you've been doing for like okaw 15 ok you know how it is yeah I mean this this it's a really simple sort of way to get love yeah I mean it's and then what sucks is like the important issues also get pushed aside yeah right like because this isn't like whether or not Trump's gonna go to jail you know what the you're talking about that before the body going to jail I opened up CNN today for the first time in like I guess if I'm going on Jose I should know what's going on the news I'm like I don't know what the is going on it's a Kevin Spacey I saw like people getting arrested and I was like I'm out well that Mueller guys not playing games no he's not around

88:26yeah and he's you mean that guy was the longest running head of the FBI since j edgar Hoover he and he is like painstakingly broke down this collusion with the Russians situation yeah and what it seems to me as an outside person who doesn't really pay too much attention to politics if I was going I would look at it like the mob if I was going to attack the mob I would go after some low-level people first and there at yes that's what he's doing he's bringing in these dudes that were you know manna for it and he's bringing in these these dudes that were running the campaign and and and Trump is unhinged today Trump is making a bunch of isn't it yeah it's great oh but you know what it's interesting too then it just came out that Hillary and the DNC funded the dossier on Trump and they spent millions done lied about it for the past year which is by the way that's you're trying

89:22to influence the political process as well and you're doing it by what you know is fiction a fictional story on Trump with hookers peeing on people and she'll like that so this everyone's dirty and this is I think really important I think the right has to recognize that you're in a situation where you absolutely have people that have colluded with Russia the left has to recognize you were in a situation where you had a really corrupt career politician who almost got in and don't hold her up has some sort of high standard for womanhood and progressive ideas this is a woman that didn't even believe in gay marriage until 2013 dude I said that on stage when I was like when if you criticized Hillary or that people would say you're not a feminist and I was like first rule of feminism like don't kill a bunch of women overseas you know what I mean like you

90:14can't that was another problem with like my whole thing is we couldn't if you criticized a woman it would be one thing if you said I disagree with Hillary Clinton's foreign policy that's not that should not be called sexist if you were like I disagree with Hillary Clinton's foreign policy what a whole it's like okay well that's that's not necessary but you couldn't say sighs you couldn't say she is a known liar is there well that's a dog whistle that's what you call crazy ladies it's like no efficient politician well when they're crazy ladies you should call them crazy lady public or just crazy person well it's just not be specific to gender yeah and it's also like yeah like the whole Caitlyn Jenner thing where it's like I don't hate her because she's trans later cuz she's kind of a cut like she's a thing about Caitlyn Jenner Caitlyn Jenner doesn't believe in gay marriage

90:59right which is patently insane right and that's what people need to know you're a bad person Kardashian that's what it is who became a female Kardashian and got what he wanted which is massive amounts of attention if you go back and look at Bruce Jenner when he was Bruce Jenner and then look at Caitlyn Jenner goal achieved Caitlyn's got massive amounts of attention people celebrating you're a hero you're amazing same dumb person yeah and that's the thing is I feel like you should and this this I like it's easy for me to say cuz I'm like a white dude but it's like I wish you could just judge people as being people now we have systemic oppression of certain groups of people right and I think a lot of people who say just judge people as people they're saying that while there's like a black lives matter rally and it's like all right not the best time to like say

91:57it right but well the only reason why black lives matter works at all is because it's an issue that matter doesn't work no see it's very silly right it's real simple yeah like the only reason why people well you know oh okay but no one see there's a reason why no one's saying white lives matter right because the white people aren't being oppressed well and people like if you disagree with black lives matter as an organization yeah because it was kind of run by one of them was of really not really a black guy you know the whole Shaun King thing I don't know and he followed me on Twitter but there's there's a lot of issues there's a lot of issues for sure with racism in this country yeah well you have a group that addresses those issues and the group gets attacked by people you got to wonder like why is that group getting into that and I'll even bring this back to like even with

92:51the the rape culture stuff which I did not think I would be saying on the show again which is that they're there you'd have guys online who every time a woman got raped they would be like well what about men who get raped and you go well that's awful but why do you socially say it when we're talking about a woman being raped or why do you only say all lives matter after like a black kid was shot right all the yeah buts yes yeah yeah but but but but what about us it's like it cannot be about you for a second and I was just as guilty of that like black lives matter when they go oh they're racist against white people it's like the title itself black lives matter that's a low bar they're just saying we exist right like look at us like look at us being gunned down in the street we're just being killed by cops right it's not saying black lives matter therefore like white people

93:40should be killed by cops like there's nothing like that people get so mad when it's not their group well n they always want to concentrate on people that are black that make ridiculous claims like instead of just looking at the idea behind why was black lives matter formed then they start looking at black people that make ridiculous claims like black people can't be racist because racism is right now we're plus influence and Prejudice it just does not read and that's the same that people on the Left would do where they were just sort of like nitpick at these very specific little arguments and it's like or there are bigger things to worry about right yeah and I think that's why an organization like black lives matter gets any heat at all because right if if people just said yeah of course cops are absolutely shooting black people at a disproportionate rate you know I mean if

94:28you just look at these incidences that we've been forced to see in the news there's been so many of them and these people March and like with that one black woman who got pulled over and refused to put out her cigarette and the cop was telling her to put out cigarette and she wanted being dead in her cell like a dull issue I think I was Sandra bland yeah yeah she was just like hung and herself that is a really insane story that woman that cop is a piece of I mean the way he was communicating with her he was not communicating with her like she was a woman that just got pulled over for speeding right he was communicating with her like she was under him like it was like he had he had to force his power on her I mean we've seen that kind of before and if that's not racism it's absolutely shitty policing well yeah and that's the thing that's what we should talk about

95:13and that's like what we were talking about with the Islamophobia where it's like you're also being counterproductive right like you want to say that the cops want to go with like blue lives matter too it's like cool why don't you guys should be the most mad when there's douchebags like that who pulled over Sandra bland right you guys should be the most mad to clean up your organization to clean up your and you should be on the frontlines right Martin likes not powerful would that be like them on the frontlines with black lives matter we don't want that in our precincts and by the way it's not even just about the way they attack black people you saw that woman in Utah that was arrested because she refused to draw blood on someone who was in a coma no I didn't yeah you didn't see that no someone got taken into custody or someone got taken to the hospital rather

96:01the cop showed up and demanded blood be drawn without this person's consent which is against the law yeah she said no the cop arrested the woman now he's been fired I think most people are unqualified to be police officers it's a big job it's a big job and I think that there it should be much more respected which it should be a much more difficult position to attain and I think that this herein lies the problem you're asking regular people to deal with insane amounts of power literally the ability to pull the trigger on a person and their life and we've seen time and time again people get away with ending lives in a way in a matter that we the citizens don't agree with yeah and the the the bar is kind of crept right where now the things that you should be using hand-to-hand combat for you're using tasers for the things that you should be tasing for you're shooting right

96:58let's see here's the thing you can't that you can't expect the average police officer to be able to use hand-to-hand combat on some person when they have no idea of that person's skill left right yeah unless it's yeah the cop is steep a Miocic what what is the what are the odds you're gonna come out ahead right you might get your gun taken away from you you might get shot well I don't think they should have to use hand-to-hand combat I mean look it's a insane position or at least be trained better right like people should not be lying you shouldn't be tasing like mentally of people who are writing articles well it's also there's a lot of like really frail people that are police officers I've seen them there was some guy that was the other day they were pulling this guy over and they had this guy out on the curb and I looked at this guy at a little potbelly these little skinny arms

97:42well that's adorable not really looking like I'm like this guy is a victim like if someone if someone just decided to turn on him and punch him in the head he would be unconscious right and he's a cop and he's like this frail cop dude I used to have a friend who did like psychological profiles for people who wanted in the police academy and she told me some of the answers for what why he's got guys wanted to be cops like one guy she said literally wrote like in his essay like I want to become like a police officer so I can finally get the respect I deserve oh well I mean they didn't she didn't like you know he didn't go through but it's like there are those people all not all cops hashtag there are those people who were just like there's one power they want sure they got bullied they got and for every guy dumb enough to say that on his application how many guys just internalized that's

98:29what I was saying all that guy did was not say that right like that guy was so nuts enough that he's like you know what they'll understand they'll see where I'm coming from and he's not gonna wrote it that there's so many people that they need correct I mean there's a lot of people that don't want to be police officers like in LA for a while they had these giant billboards where they're advertising how much you get to start oh they're having trouble like recruiting because nobody wants that job you're essentially the professional enemy right you're willing people over most of them have committed some sort of a crime they're gonna lie to you and so they're dealing with liars all day yeah Jesus I never thought about that but that's another thing where if you also can't just like the cops should be trying super hard to get rid of the the bad ones if we demonize every cop then those cops who

99:18have like a really hard job are gonna be like well you guys you know what I mean again it's that it's that balance where and so much of it comes down to just like the economy and people's life sucking right like it's really easy for example for people to on these like black like inner-city neighborhoods and they go well why don't they call the cops why is their neighborhood trash it's like well because they call the cops and then their dog gets shot or whatever sure and so it's like people just need I think that's why you saw like Trump and Bernie right people need jobs they want to take care of their family they're not reading Twitter or the news like I used to or that most of us most of us who live in this Twitter bubble all these so many of these progressive journalists I hung out with who are like 99% like some of them were like just spoiled rich kids who wanted to

100:08feel oppressed you know dude you know I hang out with all might like white journalists friends were like white kids I'm like I see more diversity and jiu-jitsu than I ever did with the people who were constantly talking about diversity it was a bunch of white kids trying to feel more progressive or more intelligent I'm very much including myself and then I start going to jiu-jitsu and I was like ah that's what a Mexican looks like you know what I mean yeah well getting back to what we're saying I think that one of the good things about these groups like black lives matter is regardless of whatever controversy it's forcing the conversation you have to have it you have to have that I just think they have to be careful with what they do like when kids get crazy they want to block off the highway you know dick don't do that kind of because that gives people a very bad impression of what

101:01your organization stands for and you're blocking off the highway and that could stop people from saving your mom who fell down and broke her head open I mean you're gonna you're gonna block off the ambulance you're gonna block off people that are that have to make a flight you're right you're in and you're saying well yeah that's how you make noise you know you cause people inconvenience no you disrupt the the very systems that we need in order to make civilization run correctly so you'll have to do that to get attention so you're saying you still okay no I got it because the the problem is and this you can blame on the media where it's like those are the only protests that get covered if you have a peaceful protest with speakers you know standing out fretta is outside of someone's like congressional office then it's like that doesn't get cover I remember going

101:47to protest hold on a second you're right that the media but I think the media is slowly but surely becoming irrelevant and there's a real meet I do the real media is what's you know you look the only reason why the news let's we don't even have to name an organization yeah in in quotes the news is the news is because they have a long history of disseminating information right but people regular people are doing that now a lot of people are doing that now through different websites and YouTube channels and I think that that's the future and it did we don't have to be as long as you're honest and you have a real objective point of view you don't have to be sanctioned by some gigantic corporation to get the truth no in fact you you're less likely to get the truth out because of your sponsors because of I mean MSNBC is owned by GE MSNBC is the quote/unquote liberal

102:40Network and they're owned by like a company that like could profit off a war Dave Rubin had a post that he did today to go to Dave Reubens Twitter page about why people distrust the media and why the media is garbage today in their coverage of this Kevin Spacey thing because all of these different outlets were saying that Kevin Spacey came out as gay that was the name the main headline wasn't a okay yes Kevin Spacey came out as gay Kevin Spacey came out as gay this was like good well let's put it up pull it up yeah that's not like we should be applauding well this is but but this is it just shows you what it is like look at this media why let's scroll up why doesn't the public trust us because this look at this actor Kevin Spacey decides declares he lives as a gay man Kevin Spacey announce Sunday night that he will live as a gay man I mean look at all these different than New York Daily

103:34News Reuters the daily beast they're saying that he's gay but they're saying he's gay because a kid came out where a man now came out and said Kevin tried to him when he was 14 so this is like saying that he declares he lives life as a gay man god damn it that's not the story no that sounds like a festive thing we should all be like congratulations to Kevin Spacey not only that he said this in this statement where he was apologizing for this thing so like this this is so crazy when also that's how they chew but they choose to frame it that way because someone coming out is going to get a lot of people paying attention right well and also III don't the the link to link pedophilia always to homosexuality isn't true like there are a lot of people who would consider themselves heterosexual whether is in the church or whatever who are raping kids because it's a power

104:30thing and they're sick or pedophilia is just different being attracted to kids is different than being attracted to like like men and this is like also really dangerous for to equate like trying to a fourteen-year-old with just like going down to West Hollywood to like yeah do some gay you know I mean he has admitted that he did it he said he doesn't recall it at all but he did say that he had a problem with drinking and you know if he did you know do anything he was very sorry and we're talking about something that happened at least thirty years ago right so here's also a problem and this is this needs to be addressed because we really don't know whether or not this guy's memories accurate because something thirty years ago the problem with being 14 years old is first of all 14 years old you're so goddamn confused I don't remember they don't remember you are a wash

105:20in hormones and confusion and insecurity and he might have had that was like the last five years of my life - yeah he might have had some weird run-in with Kevin Spacey that may or may not have been sexually predatory I don't know I don't know what happened right but to decide that he's absolutely telling the truth and Kevin Spacey's absolutely covering this up by coming out as gay using that sort of defuse the situation this is sort of this is almost the opposite of when Twitter declares you guilty this is like the news declaring you almost like innocent right where I don't know what happened to letting courts decide and talk about people being accused and whatnot where Twitter can just like be like if they say you're done like you have Jon Ronson on right yes did he talk did you read that publicly shame yeah it's so good yeah that's really good and it's just like man these

106:15people's lives are done and I was part of all that shy tweeted about justine sacco straight up I did and I read that book and it's like yeah you don't you don't think of that you know what I mean because it's a free shot I mean that's look the worst example of that is people that are completely anonymous right you weren't completely anonymous which is why you face the blowback cry alright there's a lot of people that I just have a Twitter egg and they mean they're completely anonymous they have a bunch of random letters and numbers their name and they attack people yeah right yeah it's a common thing on Twitter you know I mean we're seeing a new kind of interaction with human beings and this this interaction where there's no social cues involved there is virtually no repercussions for saying the most evil vile and then people take it as a badge of honor that they've

107:06been blocked right right yeah and make it their Twitter bio I mean so it's it's weird times yeah man I just wish I mean being off Twitter has I wish it didn't happen in such a horrific way but has definitely made me like I talked to people more now I talk to people who disagree with me I'm like I look people in the eyes more than I used to I like I'm not checking my phone do you think this is a good thing to you ultimately to like cuz how else would you have escaped I went up yeah I mean it's almost like you were in a cult because I had Brett Weinstein's brother Eric on recently and Eric was talking about the the cult of progressive ideology that it literally is a cult like the one of the things the core things that people keep saying is that biology and gender are not related you know like there's there's some weird things that people say in order to be supportive of trans

108:00people just well a lot of we but these these things that they're saying they're not supported by science and they're very culty and everyone repeats them and they repeat them for the same reason why people in certain religions repeat religious phrases yeah and this goes back to that progressive thing I was talking about where you know to me it the reason that I wouldn't fully read a lot of those articles is because I was like but I want to support those people right and because I don't think trans people should be discriminated against I don't give a where they want to go the bathroom unless it's like on somebody right like I don't care I I think that everybody should should live and feel free as long as you're not being you know predatory or like when the Republicans were like well men are gonna dress up as women it's like that's that's men like this this isn't Bosom Buddies right like

108:50that's like that was that like trans people are different than men who dress up as women and like sneaking is certainly going to be men who dress up like women and sneak in the bathrooms because they can because it's a loophole I mean they could just walk in the bathroom it's just how though just like there's going to be people that drive into cards crowds of people with their car right it doesn't mean that you shouldn't be able to drive a car right I mean you're going to have aberrations but it's not like there's a million people right now sneaking into the woman's room to try to kids right right I mean this is this is just you can't use those individual incidences aberrations of freakiness no and it's an awful Nestorian sort of go back to your cult thing I do feel like you would've never gotten out I mean I god I wish this wasn't the the way it happened I wish would happen why because

109:41look it you didn't do anything wrong I know not really bad no no big deal that still exists and like God did it a fact like the fact that anyone would would think that I'm like like that with you well why don't you write a counter article so so III think eventually I will one other I mean one of the reasons I didn't say probably like the meninist or something yeah exactly what's that how about to being a fortune hero and now for chance happy with us because we were making fun of the Radiolab thing I got tweets from people that pulled down this thing with a Shia LaBeouf put up some stupid flag and said he will not divide us and 4chan went and found the flag it was in the middle of Tennessee and took it down and walked up to the camera went Shia LaBeouf oh and he was on his webcam live and it was a great wait Radiolab podcast but Radiolab took it down because some people complain that

110:404chan is awful the whole point of what they did was not awful these are individuals 4chan is comprised of hundreds of thousand live unique individuals walking around exactly yeah yeah and this incident was amazing yeah he's shy LaBeouf so dork so the whole thing was great we could have come together with four chats we missed our opportunity Radiolab and 4chan like as one for a day Radiolab just you know there again there there on that progressive ideology team it's scary when you can't hear other voices yes and there I think there's an app they were talking about in sam Harris's show where it tells you if you're reading too many like either left-wing articles or right-wing articles like it's like hey we're steering a little to left you want to balance this out and there's like an app that can do now goes so yeah yeah and well that just tells me you're reading too much on your phone on

111:33your phone in general yeah that's why I've started reading books and it's much better and but I figured I was gonna say off of oh the cult thing I mean I don't know because I still yeah so I don't want to walk around it the other way well they're one of the reasons I didn't respond one Google and suicide and then I should say this for my poor girlfriend once she came back and like had my back like I said this on Doug actually brought her up on stage for the podcast but she I thought she was gonna break up with me and she was like when I kind of wish you were more predatory towards me and that smells like I'm Adam I'm gonna marry you you're great you're a keeper and she totally had my back and there's so many girls right now warming up their fingers getting ready to horrible she was kidding she's just funny she's just a funny person you can be funny you can be

112:25funny he can be funny and but once she had my back and like I kind of walked it back and was just like what am I gonna do there was another part of me that didn't want to write an article I had people say to me I had one person who spoke at the woman's March who called me to be like this makes my job harder because when you start to call fighting with your girlfriend abuse when you start to call a bad breakup whatever when you start to call consensual hookups on the road predatory it's like this is what sex is point to when they go that all these girls who talk about being preyed on it's you know what I mean they point to like these in innocuous normal situations and so that's really really scary but I also had people be like if I defended myself and some people told me this if I defended myself I would suddenly look like I'm saying don't believe women or

113:21I'm saying that because I'm defending just one person me and I'm like I didn't want to be and I don't want to be I just want to be a comic I don't want to be a voice for like are crazy and I also don't want to be a voice for you know every guy is a evil rapist right I just want to tell jokes but that's what I move on this experience in a lot of ways sort of can guide you through it that's what's been happening yeah I mean just and this having this example of how it could all go completely sideways sideways and and sideways in you know admittedly even before it went bad it was going sideways yes and we're attacking people without reading the full story what I was impressed then and she's looking to get this sort of response by attacking people yeah people to say yo Jamie's on our side James positive totally and then being addicted to this response thing

114:13and checking your phone all the time to making sure you know that people are on your side well you're battling with someone and calling them a sexist racist see how many followers this person has who just retweeted you like that's all I did and and now just being able to like like wake up early take care of myself read books hang out my dope girlfriend go do jiu-jitsu all day and then write jokes and live your life as a human and just be nice to people do I'm telling you I am nicer to people not being this like progress cuz I was just judging everybody how can you be nice everyone here just like look at that guy he's eating meat look at that guy he's you know he's got this bumper sticker or whatever he's constantly looking to be outraged yeah the attack machine of this I mean not just the progressive ideology but the the right-wing ideology as well it's an

115:03attack machine and you can't enjoy things like you know me anytime you tweet like I went to this movie they're like well this actors problematic er this movie is racist because it's just like I don't know man I just had a good night I just wanted to go see a movie like I think that people are getting tired of it though and this is what I'm hoping laughter you were talking about this sort of balances out and that this is a new form of communication that we're engaging in and people are doing it poorly well and I'll say this I was very surprised because I was like when I was taught when I when I told some comic friends that I wanted to go back to stand up or like improvi people and I was like I was like no one wants to hear about my no one wants to hear a rant about being a moderate and so many people like hush-hush we're like yeah they do because they're sick of the

115:47extremes on both side they're sick of all this like just everyone's just like all these Trump jokes are just like so just it's white noise all it's white noise so these progressives are trying to out progressive each other so people that consider themselves progressives are also getting attacked like the brett weinstein thing or you mean he's getting called a racist like if you'd know him he's like one of the most deeply progressive guys like probably i've ever had a chance to talk yeah well that was the rose mcgowan thing that was the that guy heard on on sam Harris's where if if something happens to a white person then someone would be like well what have that happened to a black person it's like right that would be bad too and it's like what what if it happened to you then someone else would be like what about a black person or I win seing the silencing thing is so up and this

116:29is what people are trying to do the trying to silence people they're trying to get people fired but the the answer to bad speech is not silencing people it's better speech okay is that one of the things that Nick what's his name what is his last name that was on sam Harris's podcast I'll pull it up well and I think that's great I was one of the really important things that he said that I completely agree with I will say that I do think both sides say that like even when I was on not the comedy side of the of the Tosh thing right it's like shouting down at the the female journalist or trying to get them fired is still just as bad as complaining about Tasha's joke you know what I mean like it is both sides trying to shut the other person down instead of like a dialog Nicholas Christakis that's that's his name oh is that the guy I was talking about yeah yeah that's his name

117:23Sam Harris with a gross pop up kill those on your website dude those are gross signing up for your newsletter I'm not gonna sign up now Sam you yourself with that little pop-up god I hate pop-up windows this is the new Twitter war just Joe over Sam about I just I love Sam who knows I love him but I hate pop-ups so he was the co-director of the Yale Institute for Network science and he wound up having to step down if this is only is the co-director of the analyst 2 for Network science so he was a he was a professor of social natural science was this a guy whose wife also got into trouble that's the guy okay so this episode literally changed a lot of my views on everything yeah well it's a very important episode in what's the name of the episode Jamie so facing the crowd facing the crowd it was about women this woman shouted him down and you know you're supposed this

118:15is our home he's supposed to be protecting us about Halloween costumes and the wife had made a letter that she had sent out and the letter essentially said you people should be allowed to have little play some of this here and I'm sick watching them argue with you after we've been standing outside literally for at least five to six hours between you and Holloway between last night to now we've been arguing with people who are not willing to be listened to for a long time and all I see from you is arrogance and ego I am sick looking at you I am disgusted watching the Lexx argue with you you were not listening you were disgusting I don't think you understand that and before I wasn't I before I was not angry per se I was disappointed maybe I thought maybe there was room for it before an apology you've clearly told us that you do not plan to offer an apology for your words you left

119:22the meeting last night to go home and then tweet do not interrupt me to tweets from your Twitter and then the filaments Twitter you showed no remorse you tried to let your wife believe that conversation without having answered for herself that is disgusting that is sick and now I wasn't angry before I was not angry before but now I am actually angry sir I really do not interrupt me I was not angry and now I want your job to be taken from you I don't have this job where I will get my degree where I will look back and think I have to argue with you don't do it sir do not do it this is not the day you do not want to play this game with me do something you don't play this game with me okay understand that look at me in my face first of all and understand that you are such a disappointment to this university to your students to yourself the things that you claim to agree with

120:20you were you want free dialog you want free speech this is how it works someone speaks you listen you don't cut them off you do not do these these condescending gestures napping is amazing it was so characteristic the most upsetting heart a terroristic I think what upset me the most is she has my poetry cadence it was like she was doing the same moves and the same delivery well she was just trying to be intelligent and say something and shut him up and silence him but that's the most important thing is if she didn't want a dialogue he wanted to be he also from what I remember on the podcast he didn't need to be out there he stayed out there for hours block those people so when she was saying like you're wasting my time or whatever like he came out to try to kind of like have his wife's back and like calling him like he came out to have a dial a mic hear them out but they didn't

121:15need to be there like what she was saying I'm gonna have your job this is where I'm gonna get my degree and guess what I mean I'll tell you this as somebody who lost their job and as someone who has gone after people on Twitter those people that we tried to get fired from a writing job or whatever you don't think about them the next day like the people who tried to get that guy fired on Twitter or whatever like they don't think about him anymore like if he got fired those are kids I mean you're looking at an 18 year old or a 19 year old but the Twitter an intoxicated 'intoxicated by that moment this wall you know yeah but the Twitter mob behind them it's like a lot of meze a lot of adults here too you know and like if that dude got fired and his wife got fired like I mean that's that's like somebody's life who's done a lot of really good progressive thing even if he

122:06did up legitimately it's like and it's also the consequence of actually being able to be fired that's a problem like say if you were running a did the Jamie kills teen show you got your own podcast someone can't fire you you know and that's that that's really important to be able to fully and completely express yourself yeah I mean if you had done something horrible the market place of free idea should step in and say we're not gonna watch his show anymore we're not gonna listen to him anymore now that would be normal and real the problem with being a professor of universities twofold problem right there's tenure and tenure makes professors arrogant it makes professors realize that they can't leave and then they suck at it and they're terrible I mean it's really common it's almost like winning the lottery right like they become lazy and weak or they become the idea and the the

122:56ideal situation is they become completely dedicated to being a professor yes and yes don't have to worry anymore about their job and so now they completely dedicate themselves to being an educator yeah that's that's what we would hope yeah did don't have to worry about being fired yeah and I really hope that that people listening to this because I wouldn't have listened to that podcast if I brought up that podcast in my old circle I would have gotten in trouble um I want to listen to a lot of your shows and I'm sure there are people who completely disagree with me ideologically who wouldn't you know read whatever the the interceptor Democracy Now or something on the other side and it's like my life has gotten so much better and wider and vaster and I think it's made me a more empathetic person because again on the left you just assume you're empathetic because you're

123:42on the left yeah even though you're trying to get people fired even though you're going after their job you're being kind of attacking yeah and you're insulting them and you're you're labeling them and the the broadest strokes of racism and sexism and you know you're calling them terrible and that's the problem where do you like framing them and then that makes your larger ideals which are can be correct they don't matter as more because you're you're not acting like a human being and then it's also like do you actually even care about those groups you're defending or do you just want to be on sort of the right side and get your like bonus points which is like that's a big part like I would like to think I was both you know like when they turned I wasn't suddenly just like a people like right you know but you did eat a steak right away man but it was a heterosexual sis most cows

124:32don't know a whole yeah that's what a steer is is that it's yeah they cut their balls off dude I got but even that like I was emailing with I was emailing with Rob wolf the big paleo guy mm-hmm and it's like you know how much there's a lot of that vegans and paleo people could have in common when it comes down to like hating factory farms or like trying to get like the healthiest like that like animal welfare and like I mean eating so many of the these paler guys are like the majority of what you're eating should be vegetables sure you know what I mean and and and they're just talking about health and they are talking about animal welfare and that's so fascinating where it's like oh those conversations will never happen well what we've done it's a real problem is Jam too many people into a small area where there's no one growing any food and so to solve

125:20that problem they've figured out how to consolidate massive amounts of growing into these areas both agriculture in terms of like vegetables and and grains and animals yeah all gross oh yeah what they do the way they grow vegetables is totally unnatural you're not supposed to have a gigantic swath of land no it's only dedicated to wheat well then all the steroids that they give the cat do I saw a picture of a cow once that it couldn't stand up because like it's utter we're so big it was like weighing it down like that is that's a misconception there's it's very rare that they put steroids in cows so what is it what they do do is they put a lot of antibiotics in the cows because the cows are eating things that they're not supposed to be eating like grain and they get really sick and they're doing that to fatten them up to be bigger right exactly and also that

126:10grain you could feasibly feed to people yeah you can sure also the thing which would people don't want to eat grass but the yield is much higher you know if they can get a cow they come to market quicker they grow faster but they're unhealthy there when you get a marbled steak yeah like though like what's that why goo stuff that people cherish and love that why goo steak I'm the wrong person to ask but well it's it's a really obese cow okay but if you eat grain and you're a cow that's what happens to your back you know just get fat and gross chicken is another one people always think that chickens are getting pumped up with steroids steroids are expensive but what they do with chickens is it's really a breeding thing just like the way you make a bulldog or the you know how do you breathe the biggest Mastiff they take the biggest animals they breed them

127:02with the biggest animals and they've gotten to this position where these chickens are so up because they've bred them to be so large they can't even stand up oh yeah when they're like claws like mold around the cage and they're jammed into these little areas that's off but then on top of that the real issue is that these animals are on top of each other they're living in each other they're sick all the time yeah that was that super chicken that chicken is actually healthy but by the way you see it walk around that's just an enormous large breed of chicken that chicken looks like a Sesame Street character it's a perspective issue too I'm sure if you were standing next to it wouldn't look as big but I mean you know there's turkeys turkeys are pretty big but the the the real issue is antibiotics antibiotics is a huge issue because antibiotics are first of all you you get

127:48these animals like pigs the worst is pigs man because pigs are smart yeah at least chickens are reptiles yes they're birds not their brains are tiny baby pigs are like puppies they're so cute it's horrific yeah there was a Glenn Greenwald article recently that he published about these people that got arrested because they adopted these pigs they actually stole these pigs from a factory farm and nursed him back to health but in doing so and them getting arrested it exposed the horrific conditions oh yeah the FBI's hunt for two missing piglets reveals the federal cover-up of barbaric factory farms and that is a real cover-up yeah because it's money and that's why they have what they call a gag laws and I'm sure you're aware of these these AG gag laws are insane where they make it illegal for people to take footage and film yeah what's going on in these factory farms

128:40because they think there will negatively impact the business at the farm yeah it's like yes yes it will well because your burger you're you're being you're denying people information yeah and that deny people information like that I feel like that was one of those issues that I think I think willpotter I think I knew a couple of those guys cuz Mercy for Animals has done a bunch of those like undercover operations and stuff and that's one of those things that again that that should bring together both sides right we're all eating these animals right or you're vegan and you're trying to stop this but you don't know one for the most part is like a monster no one is like asking for like a tortured animal like this who's like rolling around in their own feces where it's like everybody has the right to know this this is something that I think the vegan community could

129:26be very mainstream about and should get a lot of support and Greenwald too always been like a softie for animals too like he does all of his like snowed and stuff but dude has like 15 rescue tugs in Brazil and like he loves animals I know I'm glad this is getting coverage from these guys glad it's getting coverage too and kudos to him for putting that out you know he's he's highlighting something that's a real issue and that if that issue is there's there's a concerted effort to deny people information because that information would change the way they feel about the food they know and you know the argument is that these they have to have these conditions because this is the only way to give people food very cheaply because you have to feed you know 20 million people in Los Angeles but I don't I don't buy that article I don't buy that argument no I think this is just how it's

130:13convenient to run right now yes and you also look at like what's the we actually do subsidize for poor people it's garbage it's like coke and like processed food and it's subsidized corn as well but but even that isn't that's not the best thing for you know especially like when it turns into like high fructose corn syrup and like that and where it's like people need to be educated doctors are barely educated about nutrition and health and if we actually had healthy food whether it be like meat or vegetables or whatever in these like food deserts and so that's why I always got mad when people were like oh look at that fat person on food stamps it's like well it's not because they're like eating a ton of grass-fed beef it's because like they're food stamps can buy them chips and cereal and mash and cheese boxes and like that but that's another thing works like well

131:00that's not a conversation we have because we go you're either on the the vegan side or this side or either pro-government or your anti-government it's like there are answers I feel like if people put their heads together then we're just trying to get like yeah the guy who used the wrong pejorative fired from The New Yorker or whatever right but I think it's again just like everything else there's more information available now than ever before and I think more people are aware of this information it's just so many people are distracted by nonsense all day like yesterday Tony and I Tony Hinchcliffe and I we did a gig in San Francisco and we were coming back we're at the airport and we were next to this guy at the airport and she's talking on the phone about the most inane she was talking about Amazing Race and amazing like the the teams and amazing range they're just not there just I'm so

131:50annoyed with them so I'm not even watching anymore but oh my god I'm so hungry and this place has this you know amazing churro and this is blah blah blah blah blah and I'm supposed to be getting this thing at work but I know you know so far my pay increase hasn't come through and when it comes through I'm gonna save up my money and I'm gonna get this thing I'm so mad right now but this is what you know this is the average person's life it's just they get distracted by nonsense they talk about they're watching stupidity one it's hard because it's getting it's getting fed to you and a lot of people aren't doing what they actually want to do and they don't believe they can actually do it and and they go to college because they're told they're supposed to go to college and then they're riddled in student debt so they get a job they hate that the statement to my point was what

132:36I was going to get to was that you in your obsession with Twitter and you're you're you're being addicted to it and constantly checking in on it and going back to it that was your distraction because my business was finding distractions in stupid television shows and bad food to eat and nonsensical raises at work and because of that this occupies so much of your time between your job and your family and all this that you don't have time to think about factory farming hold weight and even now I can judge that girl when I was doing the same thing on Twitter but I could feel like wool mines for the cause mines not for yes you know mine's not for the The Amazing Race mine's like for equal whatever and it's like well it's not it's not I'm not making a difference I'm just doing it for for a little of phave I didn't even have enough Twitter followers to be addicted to Twitter like well it

133:28doesn't matter you don't mean having followers not what makes you not I mean me and anybody can engage with a large group of followers just by saying something mean to someone like Glenn Greenwald or someone who has a lot of followers it's not hard to do I think Glenn gets hit from all sides you know once the Edward Snowden thing came out he became a lightning rod for it I mean there's a lot of people like that there's a lot of people that are doing that it's a again it's it's a unique time for the distribution of information it's an unique time because we have to sort out ourselves how we manage this information and where it's yeah how it's kid man I'll just say like once I just sort of started focusing on you know weirdly being selfish like where's like how can I just be a better person you end up like I mean how can I better myself you end up being a better person where I'm

134:23like I don't know what's going I don't know who's getting arrested right now for the Russia thing but I'm like I know that like I'm picking my girlfriend up from work after I like do a bunch of jiu-jitsu it like a dope gym you know and I'm like I'm kind of fine with that you know I think it's just a healthier way to live well you know you're you're talking about yourself and you're talking about your own sort of management of your life where it had gone completely off the rails and now you've got it back on track and you're feeling yourself in a good place and a house yeah and now I think maybe there is a middle ground right and maybe there is a way that like if I start doing shows again I can like be on Twitter or not be a douche behind you yeah you definitely can and I think that having this negative experience and getting through it that's how you learn and grow

135:09I mean these bad these big moments are big opportunities for growth whereas the same grind day in day out you become like the gal at the airport it's like well these teams in the amazing 19 put these chairs are the best churros and they're churros are dry and you know there's nothing happening right having a big moment where all these people attacked you and things went totally wrong it gave you this opportunity for self-reflection in in in a way that you really probably were very unlikely to achieve without this moment know I was even gonna I was either gonna be off the Brooklyn Bridge or a bigger douchebag and I don't know what you almost work you're at the all things comedy festival you're hanging out with Burt and do Oregon it was just that's literally the funniest people on the planet Ari like funniest people on the planet Doug P on Ari he peed on him right that

136:04might have been the day after I left I saw it so mature I definitely saw Ari's yeah yeah I've seen always dick yeah I saw Ari's dick I didn't see Doug's Dax you know if I was in the wrong circles Ari could have sexually assaulted me with his dick by showing me his dick like it would be considered some sort of a my girlfriend pointed that out when he came out on stage naked it's like would there be women in there that'd be like that is sexual assault cuz I saw it was a citizen's radio you definitely people would like they would be like their fingers would hurt from typing so much to Jezebel they would fill the comments or re wouldn't feel good about himself nor am i a fascination with megyn kelly i read Jezebel's daily breakdown of megyn kelly named show yeah it's yeah look you know man we all we could all be nicer we could all find some sort of a middle ground yeah it all you know we

136:58could all learn from all these experiences you know I can learn from your experience for sure yeah guess that brand I'm women well I'm not a predator like you hashtag yeah man I gotta say like listening to like you and Burt and Doug and like I said listen if it's Simmons probably all these podcasts about comedy and and and thinking about how you know just because I feel like I failed I was like I guess I on all comics and forgetting about that like even the comics you say the most horrific on stage for the most part there's a lot of really cool broken sweet guys who like through all of the had my back like I remember I heard Bert I told Bertha's I think actually on the podcast maybe backstage but I told Bert that like I was going back and listening to a bunch of his podcast and I listened to the one he did with Metzker because I wanted that other side to it

137:56right one of the others Massacre situation was but in you know to to I don't know if Kurt wants us to be known but he was devastated by that I mean like really bad laugh and talked about her like he was super unhealthy mean he felt he felt it that ear age man when they come after you well and when I heard him on the podcast and not he gets a little melty on Facebook when I actually heard him on the podcast articulate what he was talking about where he was like no I think this so for people who don't know like some dude at UCB was accused of rape I think yeah and and Kurt essentially said you know he made it sort of in parody saying that no woman could ever lie and a woman is like my Bible it's always true and yeah but he was also saying that like UCB said like they did an investigation and found this guy guilty and he was like you can't again do it like I don't

138:50know how Improv Theater I'm like yes and their way to the clue is like I don't know how that happened or not detectives know but now this dude can if he is guilty he can like sue the UCB he's like he can get and that's what Kurt was saying right to where he just worded it poorly and it turns out that they believe the guy is a piece of yes I'm the first to say that so anyway so I listen badly no totally and so I listen to this interview and that has to do with again just judging people on the internet without facts right so I listen to this interview with Kurt and Burton it's really good and I think that was the first time I heard bird show and at the end I was like all right they started talking about me and they weren't really wrong about a lot of the stuff they said and I had this moment where Bert who I only met once we did some weird TV show together and like

139:41Amsterdam and I only met him once and he I thought it was gonna be like him just being like this feminist cuz that was the idea I had of like all comics and how they thought about me right and he was just like yeah man I was just bummed out because I remember like Jamie was nice and then like it just like made me sad that he like didn't stick up for comics and I was like it was just like really sweet and sincere and kind of like even like vulnerable and I remember had like turning to my girlfriend I mean like I want to apologize to Bert more than I do these women he sounded so like sincere and sad and I just forgot about that like that that sort of comic camaraderie you know it's easy to characterize us and just to lump us into this boorish group of men that are misogynist and you know you you ever see that thing where Jim Norton went on yeah c'mon I'll

140:33show ya and like that was Lindy West was Lindy yeah her characterization of like that kind of comedy was so caricature it was so ridiculous yeah and and there and there are there caricatures of like like I know feminists who weren't insane and who like you know but it's like she was wanting it to be a certain way I think a lot of people do because it's easier to stereotype and demonize yeah because like you know it making that decision where I'm like alright Brogan hates me I don't need to listen to that podcast like I'll just get the information that's easier to digest that that's cake right it's like cool I'm just gonna listen to the shows that agree with me and feed me information says you're right you're smart sure we're good as opposed to the stuff that's like ah I gotta look that up I have to like think about this and I have to maybe change a behavior of mine right

141:22and people do that on both sides and that's why it is so important was like no one is the stereotype of anything that that people think well I think we're in a boat that's in rocky water right and I think it's gonna rock left and it's gonna rock right and hopefully we're gonna write the ship and we're gonna figure out what the we're doing and I mean collectively the human race is probably never communicated clearer ever and then we do now and it's because of our access to information there's just definitely going to be these groups of people that so you know they haul off and they get confirmation bias and they they sure their walls up with this group of like-minded folks in an echo chamber there's always going to be that that but I think that is more obvious for what it is today than ever before totally and I think that's a good thing you know and I think that your ability

142:11to express yourself like this on this podcast we've been talking now for two and a half hours show you this yeah this is a very unique way to communicate I think this is a way to communicate where you really get to know somebody versus someone characterizing you says why I have a problem with blogs when someone writes a blog entry on you and you don't get a chance to respond they don't get a chance to see who you really are no and then when someone like me who's in a position to amplify it just reads that you just read it as fact just like you watch the news as fat cuz you go what's called the news right that's why it's interesting to see it come back and bite you in the ass yeah right yeah and then see your response and see you realize like oh and then go through this essentially an exile period yeah you know yeah yeah I mean you you went a year without

142:58performing I mean that's dude without talking to people like without talking to comics with you know but it was it was also like working on me cuz like it's not like the article was was garbage but it's not like I wasn't like a shitty selfish depressed in a bad spot person right like there were a ton of things I needed to look at myself and fix and and was I being selfish and was I making this all about me and was I but it's not necessarily an accurate characterization of who you are no no no no but it was good for me to fix those other things I was like well I didn't do that but I was kind of a douche bag so I can fix this you know that's why I you know I thought comics believed that believe that article and when I was talking to Doug and I was like I didn't read it no I don't I just thought it was funny cuz I was talking to Doug and I was like yeah man I I know

143:54I I don't really want to apologize because I reread it and I I don't think it's and he's like no no no no none of us think you're a predator you're apologizing for being a douchebag and I was like oh I get it it was the the turning on comedy the self-righteousness I saw the article and I looked at I'm like damn Jezebel's going after Jamie Kennedy ha ha ha and I laughed but I didn't think it was real and I felt like well he's probably trying to get laid and he said something and someone took it and turned it into some horrific offence against all women and turns out that he's actually a predator and you know him he's cast out from the kingdom I mean that's just what people do man and one of the reasons why they do it is because they're absolutely terrified that they themselves are going to get cast out from the king dude I have I totally totally because everyone has their

144:42mm-hmm and it is I mean it like that this would although the Weinstein stuff and the like there are a lot of dudes who probably would be supporting this more butter just like but I heard it with that one girl at the office like am I like Weinstein and it's like you can't compare those because you have to go after Weinstein with as much you know whatever vigor as you do like not go after the people who are flirting well the Weinstein thing what's unique about the Weinstein thing is it is one of the worst cases you could imagine sort of like the Cosby thing is to drugging and raping yeah it's like when you you you read about the number of people that are accusing Cosby and you're like oh my god did he rape people for like this is like your full-time job next to the Cosby Show is raping somebody characterized him as the worst serial rape in human history I heard you say that and I'm all

145:44now yeah that might be real that might be real yeah I mean he really might be he might have drugged and raped hundreds of women we don't even know the numbers by the way that's another example now that I think about it of what you were just saying we're the last however many years he went from comic to lecturing like black people about how to wear their pants and how to articulate and I was talking about manners and how to present yourself and it's like oh you're covering up drugging them raping people where it's like you're like you know what Amy that is what bit him in the ass because Hannibal Buress talking about him on stage in a comic that's what got him I still had a comic saying you know hey you know who telling me not to swear hey at least I'm not out there raping women people are like wait what what like the average person didn't know no I mean I heard about it

146:36way back in the day when I was on news radio somebody who the just told me the other day oh my friend Curtis my friend Curtis his mom worked with Bill Cosby in the 1960s in the 1960s and she was an extra on something that Bill Cosby was doing and someone pulled her aside and said be careful around him he's a creep whoa we'll do something and you know I don't know if they specifically said that they would drug him or that that he would drug her oh my god be careful so people that worked with him knew he was doing creepy like drugging women yeah and 60s might we might be talking literally about 50 years of straight-up drug him rape 50 years of drugging and raping and he did jokes about it that's the other thing Curtis was talking about he had bits about about putting Spanish Fly into women's drinks and about drugging women actual bits about Jesus but he got away with it forever

147:37yeah till this distribution of information that we're experiencing now yeah and this is what would caused how everyone's Dean's know and that's why it's good and that's why you know I would never be like social media is the problem because you know the the me to campaign and Harvey Weinstein and Cosby like it is good that these people are being exposed it's not good when you also then go on witch hunts right for people who like or like to get a rapist or whatever well that's the difference and this is the thing that a lot of men like they see the Harvey Weinstein thing and they start thinking about themselves and go oh my god what if every girl that I ever tried to came out and said you know John tried to you know he tried to feel me up or John tried to get me to go back to his house one night you know after we had a couple of drinks together and then you know and

148:22yeah cuz what does that look like is it a guy actually pressing up against you and like violating your physical space or was it a guy being like hey do you want to come up for coffee and they're like no and they go oh my bad right you know what I mean yeah and and then how you characterize that I mean if you write a blog about it and you take all these women that you know bill tried to and you can almost say bill because of Cosby yeah they say John John tried to have sex Harvey well the crazy thing about Harvey is how many of them were famous like these were like famous women with a voice yeah and he still did it to him yeah I mean it's just like he just had some crazy addiction to doing that to women was just simply like he was trying to get laid oh it's a you are a bad person because you could get laid because you're Harvey wind you are a very rich powerful man he could

149:12have hired prostitutes I mean if you wanted to if you just wanted sex yeah pretty obviously he wanted to the leading lady yeah you know he wanted to stick his dick in the mouth of the woman who was in the movie and know why he's watching the movie she I came in her mom I did that yeah boy yeah you don't want to get that rich I want to know that also was this new one accused of raping employee in the 70s Oh God as more women come forward Oh it's a goddamn rape fest out there yeah well it's you know it's horrible right and it also reinforces a lot of negative ideas that women have about men - that's another bad problem is that they're gonna look we were right if there is a rape culture look we're right you know men do I'll do this well and I think if people could actually go after these rapists then again same thing with all the the middle ground issues we were

150:09kind of finding right where it's like well let's go after the actual bad guys and then not make you know if there's a day where there's not a rapist instead of like looking I mean statistically I'm probably wrong but like looking for like who can we even be mad at for being sexist like just go enjoy the day right like there doesn't always have to be a new bad guy like you can just like go after the legit predators and and and and and and rapists and there's plenty of actual real targets Adcock yeah yeah we need to invent that and also like is that the thing to do or is the thing to do to try to educate humans as to how to behave with each other and that this this one of the reasons why this was he got away with it is because he had this extreme amount of power to control the future of these women it was just actually that's how he got away with getting them to do these things and

151:02keep their mouths shut because he held this incredible power over them because he could control their future yeah he had them the money and the influence to get them and give them the career that they desire yeah it was that legit casting couch cliche it's just like oh it was real and it was him and it was gross Whitney Cummings knows people that know like the the whole inside story and she what she said is like what you're hearing is all the women that said no she's like do you know how many famous women said yes like but graduating like I said ask you mean oh no just because it was a deal they made a deal this is how I get the leading part this is how I get you know influence over a de ting yeah this is how I get more lines so I get and that literally he they negotiated this she said he literally would negotiate certain aspects of their careers or with sex and these

151:53women did it and you know some of them probably begrudgingly and some of them willingly yeah some of them happily right who knows yeah but it's just what you're seeing is just this is how this guy operated right you saw the the Harvey Levin his name who released all the various aspects of the the contract that he had where they had worked in some Hollywood and glass know he would get fine to certain them out like a hundred thousand four-one two hundred and fifty thousand fits like a little like 500 for the through naughty boy fine yes yes like literally but negotiated into the car look at this here it is according to the contract if Weinstein treated someone improperly in violation of the company's code of conduct which obviously means rape he must reimburse the weinstein company for settlements or judgments additionally you will pay the company liquidated damages of two

152:44hundred fifty thousand dollars for the first such instance five hundred thousand dollars for the second 750 for the third and a million dollars for each additional instance so this contract is like look you're gonna get ripped we know we know you're a piece of so we want to protect ourselves from your piece of ace right is a hundred percent known well the contract says as long as Weinstein pays it constitutes a cure for the misconduct and no further action can be taken translation Weinstein could be sued over and over and as long as you wrote a check he keeps his job Oh which is crazy it's just like they made a deal with the devil they knew what they were doing but he just had a pile of like rape checks and could just dole them out it's just amazing that this went on for so long yeah and that they literally had negotiated this into a contract right right I mean that

153:34is but it takes that to change the culture it takes the cartoonist level yes it takes that to change the culture and then all the people that are terrified of being outed like him now will recognize the consequences of those actions and hopefully they're going to change their ways oh yeah yes we're hoping yeah I mean yeah you don't but these are said you don't like rub your hard dick against your employee right like you let your employee likes it and how do you know until you do it here lies the problem I was reading some article another article an advertisement from it was like the 1920s and it was an advertisement for a type of like antiseptic gum like a Listerine type gum yeah and it was how to kiss a woman is that you you know you look in her eyes now if you not ask for permission right you just do it it's amazing like that but it just shows you the way what a

154:36wider culture did from the 1920s to today I mean a hundred years of progress and people recognizing like hey no you can't just stare at a woman and then kiss or not ask permission like you just just like be confident and strong like no no no what if you're gross yeah she doesn't want to kiss just be more common our product yeah sometimes here's the problem sometimes that works if the woman is really attracted to you and you're really attracted to her and you look at each other you don't have to say anything in here but you don't know when that that is mmm how do you know and you definitely can't put that in a gum ad yeah but they didn't know that in the 1920s but no one was there to tell them like they were dealing with the information that they got just from communicating with their friends and the people they worked with and the limited amount of media it was like yeah there

155:22was just some girl and I kissed her and they were like got it how did you meet your wife well I looked in the I didn't ask permission I kissed her and now we're married we have a happy family and that's how you do it like a man chew gum yeah chew gum but that was how much information they had to go off back then yeah whereas today I mean if you asked me like hey how do you know when to kiss a girl well there will he kiss her no teeth white and three shades of dick that's a that's a different one but it was a yellow ad mate no upper left that's it that's it that's it do you know how to kiss a girl then learn stand facing her do not tell her your intentions do not ask permission to kiss her look dreamily into her eyes look Julie into my eyes Jamie look let me see dreamy dreamily my predator no no you're dreamily are you looking dreamily I'm not gonna I can't act you

156:15hold her right hand in your right hand if you wish hmm it is well to sigh a couple of times about this stage of the game what why this purse softly that her rosebud lips reminds you of Cupid's bow holy Wow she will probably drop her eyes and blush when you say that place the fingers of your left hand under her chin and tilt back her head slightly draw her attention by the way this is all like you could see it in a in a like you could see the cartoon of it yes oh one egg the guys just like a cop draw her gently towards you do not hurry gaze deeply at the love lights which slumbers in her eyes sigh once more holy sign thing I'm editing you need to edit this thing this is terrible writing inclined your head towards her until your lips but wait all caps do not kiss her until you know that she uses Lister rated pepsin gum the only antiseptic gum in the world the only chewing gum that

157:19makes it safe to kiss safe to kiss wait so you're being a creep but then you're putting the onus on her to use a thing that's that's sexist if she is a lister ated pepsin gum girl kiss her oh that sound like a really bad penthouse letter not a comment in 1911 copyright 1911 common sense gum company so what is it common c common comm but it looks like ian that's just just a shitty font old font blurry font sense common sense gun company common sense gum company Jesus 1911 well that's you know limited access to information just the fact that that would be torn to shreds my god if somebody tried to write that today and put it in an ad and like say Esquire someplace yeah yeah yeah but that's it just shows you the evolution of human culture yeah I mean and I think we're experiencing that totally and and I think there's a lot of good I think like yeah that shouldn't happen you

158:21should just be creepy and sign into a girl's mouth that stuff was bizarre here's the thing if a man and a woman are deeply attracted to each other and she's a and you're a you say thinks just like Oh Cupid's bow and next thing you know wait a minute what kind of gum are you using we're gonna gum on your mouth huh yeah I mean it says it's who we judge Jamie keels team that's me the episode the name is episode Jamie kill Steen but you know , Jamie kills I love it we're way to judge I support that yeah who are we to judge listen come back to being a comedian and actually I want it back yeah I think I'm back start showing up today having some sets call in for spots I got to figure out how to do that you'll figure weird you'll get back in get back in doesn't matter I to do that was so fun and being around comics are so fun forgot how much I love comedy if my

159:15girlfriend happier took a break bro yeah that's hey maybe like why'd you take a break I'm like sick I got sick I got sick with the left all rap thank you yeah I'll get back on Twitter yes I'll be careful with that yeah I mentioned it worked yeah don't for a day they will come for you especially if they know you're vulnerable like bulbs oh that's Cheryl okay thank you man we did this me tear it was great I'm glad all right all right we will be back tomorrow with Colin Moriarty and Owen Benjamin on Wednesday see ya dude