JRE MMA Show #18 with Pat Miletich

00:04three-two-one the Great and Powerful Pat Miletich I don't know about that but you are listen man um it's an honor to have you in here thank you I I've been watching your show for a long time and you're a contrarian thinker I love it and you've you've prompted a lot of people to think differently right uh maybe maybe I think information prompts people to think differently well when they get pounded with it enough and hear it enough yeah eventually it starts to sink in right yeah I think so man and when you talk about guys who have been around like you you are one of the real pioneers of MMA you know it's one of the reasons where I really wanted to have you in here I remember back when you're fighting and they're back when you fought Matt Hume and what was that like an extreme straddle carrier I don't yeah that was John Peretti's thing I mean did you've been around you've been around

00:53you were the early days bare-knuckle yeah ya know that you know when the thing is I always told him Severn yeah yeah we fought to a draw who's 270 pounds at the time yeah and he was still obviously pretty tough back then still pretty mobile it was not a not a fun fight I can tell you carrying his weight around for 30 minutes but it was tough but Matt Hume was the guy that made me realize that I wasn't a fighter yet because I was 15 I know I think I was ranked fourth in the world I thought Matt rag-dolled him for basically the whole first round threw him around like a rag doll but he was just biding his time and waiting and he caught me with some knees and damaged my nose and the refere are the yeah the referee and the doctor stopped the fight because back then it was very controversial they didn't want a guy with a crush nose or whatever and so they stopped the fight

01:38but I realized at that point he knew a lot more than I did yeah that was an interesting fight because I totally disagree with that stoppage and I was watching I was like this is crazy how do you stop a fight for a broken nose well it was I got head-butted are used to spar with a lot of Pro boxers and I got head-butted by a pro boxer and he separated the cartilage from the bone so that gap is still there so that's what they felt my nose I'm bleeding a little bit but so that's why that's why they stopped it but broken noses are just it happens right and it's not dangerous it's like maybe somebody saw those movies where you like like remember I would hit the bottom of guys nose and drive the bone up and it was brain like Mike Tyson talking about it right like this input to push it yeah blowing up through the brain that might be the worst Mike Tyson impression I've ever

02:24heard yeah but back then yeah nobody really knew like what was dangerous what wasn't dangerous it wasn't like all a body of fights that we could drop on and I was doing televised debates with politicians at the time we really to keep the sport legal in the state that I was scheduled to fight in so think of how stressful it is to train for a fight stay healthy try and pay your bills do all the stuff you're doing and at the same time I'm debating politicians in that state who are trying to pass a bill to ban the sport that I'm scheduled to fight in that state I'm panicking I'm freaking out so I do my homework and I'd get in debates like represented the bolan from Illinois I got by the time we got done with the debate he goes I'll agree with mr. Miletich he's obviously you know I think they expected to go into a debate with the punch-drunk box right right and by the time the debate

03:14was done I'd crushed him and he's like well maybe if we could just do away with head much you know that was his rebuttal at the end of it yeah I mean I see how they think and I see that thought but I think today even to this day I don't mind head buds I don't either because you train for them yeah if they're legal that's what you're training for and it's a legit technique like why is it okay to slam your elbow into someone's face but it's not okay to slam your forehead into someone's face right and it's very effective if a guy's tying you up in the guard and his head's right there and you can do that right and he can't really do it back to you it's a night I mean I I watched when I was in my first no-holds-barred tournament in Chicago I've got none even remember the name of it anymore it's been so long but I saw a guy get head-butted 42 times in the

04:03first round and he ended up winning with a triangle Wow he ended up winning the fight it was Marcel Loveridge versus this guy named Johnson Mike Johnson I think his name was Marcel leverage ends up losing after crushing him with head butts Mike Johnson's in the shower there running cold water on him trying to wake him back up and he collapses and they have to throw in an altar Wow but it was ya headbutts up obviously were legal in so Wow yeah head butts like now it was marked the hammer Coleman's he's on the ground knees on the ground to the head on the ground yeah but I mean think about when Coleman was in his prime he was all about head butts and we fought Maurice and he took more ease down that was back in the days when head butts were legal Cory Smith he defended against all that yeah yeah it's just another technique and but without that technique it's sort of like when

04:52I'm one of the one when I realized that Taekwondo was very limited it was when I started working out with kick boxers I started getting punched in the face and I was like oh no like what have I learned I've learned this you know thing that is only good if somebody doesn't punch you in the face like this is terrible but you know you were an open thinker obviously and you realized and so the thing was with early MMA everybody was so tied to their technique it's like being tied to a religion and refusing to see something else yeah it was a lot of that so guys who are Taekwondo experts wrestlers this that they were so so attached to their art that they refused to learn anything else and they just died because of it yeah they get crushed because of it and I just early on when these guys are dumbasses why wouldn't you want to know how to you know a lot of things you got

05:39to have a big toolbox there's always a lot of pride in your art right there was always a lot of guys like wrestlers who are only into wrestling or kick boxers only in the Muay Thai they just want to stand up they didn't want to go to the ground they just gonna stand up and that that just cost you in the long run especially when you see like a real complete fighter like a guy like Mighty Mouse like a guy like Mighty Mouse is at the top of the heap trained by math Matt Hume yeah right exactly and he can do everything I mean he doesn't matter if you're a wrestler it doesn't matter if you're a kickboxer you're you're everywhere with that guy yeah and it's because he's got this just incredibly well-rounded skillsets and I think the days of the specialist I think are still they're still kind of here I'm surprised that's still the case yeah there's a few guys that can still pull

06:23it off but the guys that could pull it off or like the Damien Maya's right or the Wonder Boys yeah like Wonder Boys just such an elite striker that is if he can keep the fight standing he can kind of work a lot of guys and because so many guys have not karate and things like that he's like a Rubik's Cube they can't figure out yeah well he's long in that weird sideways stance with that front leg those guys who have a good front leg like that karate style point fighting style that they're used to blitzing in with that good front leg yeah very hard to gauge that distance so different yeah I think Woodley did the best job of anybody in in fighting him and I think that's like a road map for it because like people booed Woodley and gave Woodley a lot of but look wooden Lee's the one who hurt him in both fights right and that's the way you got to fight that guy you can't just charge

07:11after that guy yeah the criticisms of Woodley in my mind I think you know look it's a two-man dance right Woodley kept his title yeah ultimately that's all that matters you know what I mean yeah if I'm the champ I'm just trying to keep my title I'm doing enough to win I'm not there to be the most exciting fight that was my mentality because I knew once you get because I fought totally different before I got to the UFC I was just a psychopath and go out and just go 100 miles an hour until the guy was done right but once you get in the UFC then it's okay we can cut you if you lose right okay now I got to change the way I fight well there's also the wind bonus where I mean especially now do they have the wind bonus back then yeah that's dead to me is a real issue and I think a guy should be paid what they get paid I think if you're you have a contract the

07:57contract for X amount of money if you have points on the pay-per-view that's on top of that but the idea that your win or loss could be in the hands of what we have deemed completely incompetent judges I see it every week every week I mean and you do a lot of commentary yourself in these smaller shows up at imagine sometimes it's even worse I've I mean we've gotten in trouble to the point where we had people come to us and go look you the promoters at different organ from different organizations when there was really really bad decisions you know when I was working with Michael che Bello especially we were brutal yeah and the athletic commissions and we'd hear about it and go you guys need to back back off I've heard it too I've heard it from athletic commissions too but I'd say go yourself yeah there's guys in there that are fighting for their life they literally train for

08:43months and months and some point someone who literally doesn't even understand martial arts is giving these guys decision a loss or a win and that's 50% of their money and it's crazy I remember the first time I witnessed it as far as a coach when my I FL team was fighting in Texas we were fighting I think boss's team and I looked at the judges and all of them one of them had a bouffant hairdo an old lady and then two old guys with white hair and I went back to the locker room when they go guys you can't let this go to the judges they're like one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel they know nothing about what they're watching like we are in deep if we can't do it well it's I think boxing is a very complicated art and I think it's a very difficult thing to score but it's way more easy to score yeah then martial arts absolutely there's so much going on

09:34when a fight goes to the ground I mean I have a friend who is a judge who literally said to me in the middle of a fight one of the female judges or referees rather judges one of the female judges has turned to him and go what is he doing mm-hmm what is he doing a guy was going for a Kimora what is he doing yeah what is he doing Adelaide Adelaide bird yeah we've we've heard you talked about her during one of the I mean Cormier yeah yeah but like I said my mom's a really nice lady - I wouldn't want to judging it but I said the adelaide bird before the pride in las vegas Lawler was fighting in that one right and I thought I'm just gonna ask and I walked up to her and I go Ken excuse me I'm new to the sport could you tell me what a triangle choke is and she looked at me with walked away this is a trap peloton trap guy with cauliflower ears knew this sport

10:32that's hilarious you probably had a like a transparent grin like you couldn't know a lot back you know the grin just it's it's sad that this goes it's awful they suspend fighters constantly but when are they gonna start suspending referees and judges I've only seen it one time I agree I mean judges in for sure referees as well but I think that the the real thing that's so disappointing to me is that there's a wealth of martial arts experts out there like there's so many yeah there's so many good coaches that would be great judges there's so many great x-fighters yeah there's so many people that are just really well-versed in martial arts that be able to tell and I also think three people it's a ridiculously small number I think for like five judges yeah like five judges would lose a lot of the shitty decisions because if it's two and one and like there's sometimes you get a

11:24split decision like what in the yeah like one person saw this completely wrong and the other two guys got it right thank God the other two guys were there well if there's five people and this happens more than once you said okay we've got a weak link here let's get rid of this person right let's get rid of this one judge we'll have it unanimous one way and the other judges will have it unanimous yeah you they should be they should be held accountable there's someone you'd have to sit down with them and say God explain like what are you seeing like what's let's watch the brown sit down with me and tell me how you think this guy's getting the beat out of them is winning I just it's criminal dude I've seen screwed it's just it's it's heartbreaking and it literally is like stealing money from these kids no I mean you're I just don't like the wind bonus man I just

12:11think it's a bad I don't think anybody fights harder for it see and I don't even I don't even necessarily subscribe to you know fight of the night and knockout of the night and stuff like that yeah I don't I don't I think they just bring back the yellow cards for stalling type stuff right but how pride did it right I think that's a great way to do things and when pride did it what did they take ten percent of your purse I think so and it yeah you know and they they would end up I mean you get DQ'd eventually right yes they pull the red card and you're done right if it was more than one yellow card you'd get DQ'd so they would give you a yellow card if they thought that you were either doing something illegal or if somebody just stalling or whatever yeah I mean in college wrestling they knew that they had to change things right they had to speed up the action and they started

12:52calling stalling a lot faster in college wrestling and it changed college wrestling guys get after it now you know my problem with it though is that there's referees that separate fighters when they're working real hard against the cage like and I think again it's guys who don't understand they don't understand how difficult this is when you have one guys trying to take the other guy down the other guys trying to defend their landing shots in between trying to open up space and then the ref say keep working I'm gonna separate you guys you don't work like they're working what the are you watching yeah they're badly they're badly they literally don't understand the position yeah and that's that's a giant problem think about how many referees have never truly trained right a lot a lot and if they did train it was a long time ago a lot of guys going in there with big

13:33fat guts and they just how many times have you called fights and all the years you've been calling fights and then saying he's out he's out he's out stop the fight stop the fight stop the fight I wonder if you'd so close to it that you don't see it as well that's that's not an excuse it's not like use because you know you've trained for so many years in martial arts right you know when somebody is unconscious from a choke you know when a joints getting destroyed you know you've been around it enough you've trained high-level enough where you see it you know you can see their stomach where it's going in and out really hard you know they're unconscious right right where referees look at somebody and their eyes are wide open well his eyes are open so he must be conscious you're more you don't understand right yeah yeah what are your thoughts on forcing tap outs like if a

14:17guy gets his arm broken like that's a controversial thing like like if stopping a fight well you think about Tim Sylvia and Frank Mir yeah you know Tim got his forearms that was a crazy one because in that one I kind of agree with her because it wasn't an elbow it was the middle of the arm right both forearm bones went at the same time so I didn't see that angle Tim's back was to us in the corner and herb stops it and I were and Tim gets up and he's like what the you know doing a great acting job yeah right Tim you know for whatever reason was able to pull that off I mean that's not a pleasant feeling obviously having your your arm snap and right Tim gets up and he's like yelling at herb I go in I start yelling at Herbert herbs like Pat I swear to cut his arm is broken he's pleased and then I see the replay on the big screen yeah I heard well I remember the crowd was booing and

15:08then we played the replay back and I'm like watch it watch it right here scratch you here buddy go yeah and then I told Tim I go wave to the crowd when we walk out of the cage with your broken arm so Tim goes like Jesus and then we got back we got backstage when the doctor looked at it and I go how bad there's that he goes how hurt yes this hurts yeah yeah it was bad I was there yeah the doctor that did it was a good good friend of mine orthopedic guy who I trained for many years he was a bull rider at one time and then became an orthopedic surgeon and then trained with me in kickboxing right doc die tough tough tough dude from Texas imagine and he goes I had never had to order plates for a tibia bone to replace to put some of these forearm bones back together he goes there as big as the normal humans tibia oh yeah just yeah his bones were massive he goes they don't even make I had to

16:03use tibia plates Wow yeah did that heal 100% yeah yeah there's a long time though right yeah really struggled with that right that was I remember him saying thank you to her beam for saving his career yeah because you know if he let him go on and that that thing got him down here goes once it breaks through the skin right that becomes a giant issue for infection absolutely all kinds of here it is right here Jamie pulled it up Frank Mir that is broken more arms that they're not showing it right here oh it's his nose right on the cup here's the replay yeah that's that's another thing about metal cups that's a weird little loop oh here it is that's a weird angle - look at that crotch yeah daddy that's a weird angle that was ugly those metal cups man that's a weird still loophole like you could still wear those those tie cops I think you should be able to but you're kicking metal and

16:59it's also a crazy fulcrum if you got a guy in an arm bar that's you got a metal rod there I like it though I like I'm sure you do but the thing with what the old-timers have taught me in k1 and Muay Thai was you take those metal cups and you take sheet metal screws from the inside out and you screw this put the sheet metal screws through and then back them back out so there's raised edges everywhere on it right so you wear that so if they need you or kick you in the groin it shreds their meat up on their knee or their foot right so that's what the old Thai fighters would do is that's what the way they would do their cups so that's how I started doing it so if they're gonna low blow me they're gonna shred the friggin leg up the problem with that is it also works if you get a guy in you mount him and he drive that thing into his sternum then you've got like shoving into his sternum that

17:45seems like a weapon seems a little bit like a little cheating we yeah I there was a couple other guys that did that back in the day especially the Chicago circuit because I was fighting kickboxing in Chicago a lot was Chicago like a rougher circuit dude it was they would do k1 rules Muay Thai and then I started in the pkc style originally and I hated it because it was you know the light tree like the dragsters the old pkc was you get one kick in one light lights Kasey's that like PKA yeah yeah basically it was all the same love the waist kickboxing yeah with the with the silk pants and the little foam boots on so when I started I wasn't flexible right that was a wrestler well who had some boxing experience and the reason they did that was so boxers wouldn't come in and destroy everybody right right so the karate guys could survive and do pretty well yeah so the just

18:37having to get the allotted eight kicks per round I hated it because it was all kick above the waist I wasn't that flexible I was pretty shitty it kicks when I when I first started right so it was just a waste of time and then I I ran into the Muay Thai thing and the k1 rules fights and I went this is my thing I can kick him in the legs thank you God well I remember the first time I got kicked in the leg I was like oh this is such a game changer because in Taekwondo it was like it was illegal it was illegal to kick below the waist right and it was legal to punch in the face so it was great for learning dexterity of the legs but the the moment I started training with Thai guys and I got kicked once just once I want oh it's so pain well it's weird it's not just painful it's like your leg goes dead yeah that's it this is weird feeling you're like oh Christ

19:24they're so effective yeah and also that you could do it from such a close range right you know they can be in the clinch and blast somebody a leg in her right so I the worst experience of my life spine was Arthur Mariano Souza he was the guy in the old ivc's in Brazil that laid Vanderley Silva's eye wide open and all the meat was hanging down past his eye that was Arthur Mariano Souza and I mean that got a great striker trained in Holland for a lot of years and would come up with Omri Batoche and live with me when the Tesh was the elite guy on the planet grappling right so we had the best of both worlds where the wicked striker and one of the best grapplers in the world he'd come up and we just train hard right for six eight weeks at a time and Arthur started low kicking the out of everybody in my gym we weren't great Muay Thai guys at that time but the experience of watching

20:15he started that's the thing he started getting to the back leg right oh you can throw the cross and step outside and come back and and just tap you in the same spot over and over on your back leg and you're always taking your weight off that leg off the cross right your weight goes on it then it comes back off of it as you're stepping right when the kick hits so it's like jello your clothes jello I'll just cut right to the femur bone every time and he he kicked me like three times and were on the exact same spot like I winced and went yeah and he goes patch you know with the Brazilian accent it's like patch I know I know kick you in that leg anymore and I go no dude I need to learn the hard way I need to learn the hard way so he's like all right cross low kick fall down ball and he had Jen's Pulver jumping like this like a monkey uh he was so afraid of his low kicks and then you're four

21:03days after Louis yeah you don't care funky when you try to train your jacked up yeah it's a it's an amazing skill that the the ties really figured out how to do it right I mean kyoka Shannon obviously had it a lot of martial arts had it but man that ties figured it out yeah they really it's kind of crazy when you think about this one small island it's one small country right and they because of gambling and because they had all those fights and they just figured out a totally different method of training a totally different method of fighter yeah pretty impressive when you think about the history of Thai fighting between the the laotians and the Thais during times of peace the soldiers would fight each other and all that sort of stuff just a bunch of scary people and they're the nicest people in the world the nicest people you couldn't have any nicer people who would completely wreck

21:50you it's so weird because like when you meet Thais especially even Thai fighters they're so friendly yeah they're so friendly and humble and warm and then when you watch them fight like Jesus it's kind of crazy yeah - oh my my Muay Thai coach again long-long Lee his last name was not Longley it was a lot longer than that but he's a stadium champ he lived in Peoria Illinois in the ghetto and he had a little shitty basement with type with like banana bags and all that sort of stuff and I found him out of sheer luck somebody said there's this guy in Peoria that was a stadium champion he's the guy so I went to see him and he taught me how to clinch new clinch work and he was 140 pounds maybe and he put you in the clinch all the years of wrestling everything else didn't matter I mean I felt like a dog in a lake with a raccoon hanging on my head that's one thing that

22:40people don't realize that aren't real fans of the sport is that Muay Thai is a lot about grappling yeah it's a lot about that clinch work and that's one of the things that I really like lion fight above a lot of the other kickboxing organizations is they let those guys work in the clinch and elbows in the clinch and it's a it's a again like we were seeing about head butts these elements are very effective yeah so why remove them it's the what's tolerable to the politicians and the public and all the other clinch everything should be there I think I think everything should be there I think the real issue is the cage the real issue is the cage in my opinion because the cage presents this artificial barrier right I mean I've been I'm beating a dead horse here because I've been saying they should fight on basketball courts I'm like if you can have a basketball game at a basketball court

23:27it certainly serve a striker right yeah the wrestlers are able to get you against the cage yank yourself underneath you beat the idea it is it is an advantage for the wrestlers but it's also an advantage for the wrestlers and that a guy's not going to be able to put his back up against the cage and get back up again true you know if the emperor has you down in the center you're gonna have to earn that stand up you're gonna have to actually either reverse a position or figure out a real escape because so many guys are so good at wall walking yeah there's so many and they're all so good at defending a submission by keeping one side pressed up against the cage I can't take their back yeah yeah yeah I think that it's an artificial environment like the cage and it's also it's hard to see like if you're in the audience I mean it's it's actually better sometimes to be home

24:11watch I like that I like the boxing rings for fights I mean they go through the ropes now and then what right but it's a lot better for people at home watching and for the live crowd there's just not that cage by area that focus problem yeah hey eyes and cameras right I agree I think Bellator actually nailed it with their kickboxing ring because they put this big circle around it so you can't fall through like remember when Bernard Hopkins fought Joe Smith right in his last fight he went through the ropes and landed on his head yeah I mean this is a terrible way for a legend to go out yeah like this is it's the rope ropes were loose and he gets clipped while he was already going down he just goes right through the wall yeah that's ridiculous that he could fall four feet in and land on his head that was that was the fight where Bernard was talking tons of before the fight right was he

24:56talking about yeah he was talking a lot as well as his last fight you know probably realized I mean Bernard Hopkins was getting his ass kicked by Antoine Echols who trained at Pena's boxing gym in Iowa where I trained right mm-hmm Antoine was scary dude he was scary he got he got side side tracked and derailed by horrible management they they really screwed his his career up but he was the scariest boxer that I have ever seen and been in the gym with I mean that guy would he's looking like he's punching at half speed and just crushing people was 16-ounce sparring gloves on destroying p.m. ember Antoine Antoine went down to it was South America Ecuador or whatever the hell it was that was when Norris was fighting Simon Brown Terry Terry Terry Norris no sir the smaller one right yeah yeah Michael Nunn was defending his title there and Antoine Echols got on the card

25:52because Michael Nunn was the pound-for-pound best fighter in the world he was out of that port Iowa also where right so they were doing a bunch of sparring they were training down there getting used to the altitude and Antoine walked into the gym and he started sparring with three-time world champions and beating the out of all of them and they go dude you need to back off you need to you need to stop this and it's a month out from the fight he doesn't care he's not gonna out all these three-time world champs and they go you and basically what the Antoine said to all of them was if you guys can't handle it stay out of my ring like I don't care who you are or what your titles are I'm going to wreck you so toughen up I own the ring now right that's how good he was what do you think about that kind of sparring no I think it's great do you think it's great to just go to

26:36war I just you know you know there has to be a limit obviously because the ties don't do it like that at all well here's the thing though that's because the locations the knees the elbows all that sort of stuff but it's also cuz they fight a lot right yeah they're fighting every week yeah you know so that that's that you're smart but you know the thing is you can't then I say it a million times I've said it for years you can't become a racecar driver by going down the highway at 55 you just don't have the reaction time you're not used to that high speed that high endurance everything else that goes on you have to get used to that and everything slows down eventually right experience in time things slow down for you I can remember when I first started fighting kickboxing and everything was like a tunnel this big mm-hmm and all I could hear was me breathing right right right

27:18anything else but then later on in my career you know you'd see punches come at you and you'd move this slow yeah but it was actually right I mean so it just it happens with time and you've experienced that with everything you've done right yeah you just become much more customed to it and then you become more relaxed but I wonder like is there a way to keep the speed but at least take something off the shots well that's the thing is where you put the shin pads on the headgear the 16-ounce gloves you know at high speed you go hard you hit takedowns hard all that sort of stuff you know a couple times a week but you know you can't take that kind of punishment constantly but you know mornings would be conditioning strength stuff technique all that sort of stuff the night time was you know more high speed hard takedowns and as a coach I had to look and go alright tonight's

28:05takedowns but if I saw people getting tired fatigued and sloppy I knew an injury was about to happen right okay let's go to the ground now get in the guard let's go from there let's do you know do some ground and pound drills this and that right so I think you know it was it's important to go high speed until you start seeing mistakes happen because of sloppiness fatigue that's when people get hurt then you gotta you know pull the reins back on everything when you were running your gym the Miletich fighting systems was the gym I mean you guys were the kings you got to think about who came out of your gym Matt Hughes Robbie Lawler I mean Jen's Pulver Tim Sylvia and then a host of other killers that people just forgot you know we had a lot of people obviously that would come and train with us Rich Franklin Dave monnet who was 85 pound champ for a while he was he

28:50was one of the best martial artists I've ever seen people don't even know about him the guy was incredible trained with Greg Nelson for a good portion of his career obviously but I think we had 92 people made it to televised careers and I think 30 or so made it to the UFC nice pretty impressed so it's you know when I added it all up somebody asked me to do that and I added it all up and I went through all the the televised cards that I remembered it was I think 92 people and I thought you know that it's pretty impressive we had a lot of killers we had a lot of killers yeah and you also were the first big super gym like this you were the first big American gym that was producing like world champion besides why instead I guess oh that's true the lines did too yeah I guess they were the first we had to coach you guys yeah that's true well the lion's den

29:37didn't produce as many world champions me really baked basically at Frank and Ken and who else came out traits Heligan yeah guy Metzker guy massacre was a world champion yeah yeah yeah Metzger also had that kickboxing background right you know he had more of an American style kickboxing background yeah and the wrestling he had written before that stuff so that helped him he had some great fights in Pride - mmhmm yeah absolutely yeah Metzger was super legit he's a smart guy - you know Metzger is an interesting fellow when you hear him talk about fighting and talk about his career he's very open and honest about it and he's into the holistic health now mm-hmm you know he's he's he's pretty wise to that and I tell you what if you if you talk to him long enough he'll have you sold on some products yeah you know he's a guy that uh he suffered through that Vioxx well that Vioxx stuff that

30:29people were taking for heart attacks and all that a stroke right a stroke through Vioxx yeah they pulled that off the market and when people were taking it a lot of people were taking getting strokes and I think someone Vioxx and celebrex with celebrex another one celebrex was bad - yeah there's a lot of weird drugs that people were taking for arthritis that I guess it was like a blood thinner oh yeah there was a lot of them a lot of professional athletes who are suffering from inflammation and pain and getting beat up and stuff we're all take and it was I was wrecking people yeah but anyway you but back to your gym like when you guys were doing it you guys were kind of creating the roadmap I mean there wasn't really a lot they would I mean the lines don't have they're crazy the the initiation that they would do right well they would run you through this insane gauntlet it was similar to

31:17what I guess Ken had to go through in Japan right I can't even put that together they had you know they had their own little methods as well I shouldn't say little methods they had the road they were very big and very crazy yeah but you guys like there wasn't there wasn't like now you have ATT have Tristar you have all these different gyms you could sort of model after you know get Rufus's camp there's all these different places we could say all all these elite fighters come out of here how are they doing it all I've trained with these guys I know their methods yeah that's what they do for strength and conditioning here's how they take here's how to do the recovery work yeah you guys were basically at the front of the line there was nobody back there for you to look at right well I what I was lucky enough to be like I said I wasn't a world-class wrestling I

32:00was a good wrestler I beat some very good wrestlers but I was not by any means even remotely world-class right I had some boxing experience I've been around some great boxers so I at least had that to start with but I recognized you know I I want to be I want to I want to be good enough to spar 12 rounds with a world-class boxer and hang you know hang and go an hour straight with a world-class BJJ black belt and and go back and forth with them and battle tooth and nail to be able to hang in a you know the Iowa wrestling room during the summer with the hot club guys who are absolute beast and friggin threw around and bounce you off walls and and spar with good good kick boxers and be able to do all that stuff and then understand how to how to put it all together and I think that that you know at least enabled me to explain grappling and wrestling to a striker from a striker standpoint and

32:50vice versa you know what I mean right so that was understanding angles from a striking standpoint from a wrestling standpoint and being able to explain it and understand people and then you got to read people you know their their personality right now you got a coach everybody different you can't coach everybody the same way because some people want to get screamed at and some people want to pat on the back you know that means just you got to read people differently personalities are big deal when you were putting together when you're training fighters you first you started off when you first started doing it you were still fighting and you still had a couple of fights along the way right but when you were putting together like training say if you were training fighter for a big fight in the UFC how did you put together their camp did you leave it up to them in some ways did you

33:35just have them attend regular group training sessions did you give them individualized attention I would you know I would give them individual attention definitely definitely I had to kind of figure out everybody's body was different how to find that that balance between aerobic and anaerobic endurance you know some people needed more of one or the other and then they'd come to team training and everybody you know you got 40 guys in the room were all a bunch of killers and you just get new guys and everybody was pretty good about knowing this guy's getting ready for a fight don't hurt him you know that's that's really important right you know so so we were pretty good about as a group looking out for somebody about pushing them to their limit constantly or double-teaming them constantly you know every minute a new guy jumping in on them type stuff from doing that sort

34:22of you know so it was and obviously you know helping a guy like Hughes who wasn't the best striker we got to do what we can to get him better at it you know what I mean or a striker who can't stop a takedown we got to figure out how to help this guy I got to put him with a bunch of wrestlers and just have him constantly sprawl and sprawl and sprawling and guys would all donate and shoot and shoot and shoot and make him work at work at work it you know that was the it was just different for each guy I guess now did you did you have anything specific that you would do in between camps like say if you had a guy like Hughes and you say like he he wins his fight now he has some time off would you start working with them on specific things like you would you have a program you'd say like Matt we really gotta tighten up you know your stand up defense okay you know if they were

35:07healthy and stuff like that absolutely you know there's there was just guys that it's so hard for people to be well-rounded it really is especially when you're that good at one thing you know Hughes was such a powerful wrestler that and and so good on the ground that was you know it was a challenge so we had to definitely work you know extra with that well Matt was the first guy who was a really great wrestler who also was outstanding at submissions right he was he really changed the game because like like when he hit that far side armbar on George st. Pierre that is a very technical move and to have a powerhouse wrestler hit that in a world title fight yeah it's like that to me I think Matt doesn't get enough credit maybe see just because you know time passes and you start looking at George seen Pierre you start looking at all these other guys Tyron would lose the

35:55champ now yeah and you sort of just forget like that Matt was the blueprint this is what happens when a really strong powerful wrestler learns and absorbs around right it's a scary dude yeah that's that's where you go you're not a BJJ guy you're a you're a catch as catch can wrestling right you know you understand how to destroy somebody control position beat him up and hit you know power submissions finesse submissions all that different stuff yeah you know that's and when Hughes was in his prime I remember when he first I reference second fight and he destroyed some poor Brazilian and the guy was a really good legit black belt and Hughes beat him half to death and it was in Chicago I refereed it and I walked up to him I go dude you ever come to Iowa I know I'll make you a world champ there's just no doubt in my mind that was the only guy ever said that to the only guy ever recruited

36:44to be honest with you for the most part so Hughes shows up he drives three and a half hours from Hillsboro Illinois I've got bronchitis at the time which would made it even worse and he goes yeah I am let's let's get this workout in right so we wrestled and grappled you know takedowns to submissions everything else and about 30 minutes into it I can't breathe and this guy is a monster I've had him in 50 submissions and he's shaken out all of them literally just like bounced me off walls he's so strong I couldn't believe it and that was I was a strong guy I mean at the time I was probably bench in 365 could dunk a basketball and run a four for 40 so I was not a slouch athlete when I was in my prime and I couldn't believe this guy I had never experienced somebody my size being this strong in my life that saw my strength is rigid Israel and I grew up half a wrestle farmers trust me

37:35soldiers and all those yeah that's right yeah but I I said to him I go hold on man that guy can't breathe I got bronchitis he goes you because I don't care what you got I drew up three and a half hours we're working out he grabbed me and train doubled me onto my back all the way across the room Slams bit like I were here let's get it on so I got him in one guillotine I lifted him off his feet I ran him backwards and Randy was hard as I could ask first into the wall I mean I was I was trying to kill him I was so pissed because he is just a freak and he went limp he went unconscious for a second so I let go of it he slid down the wall hit his knees woke back up and train doubled me again onto my back and so we get done we get done with this hour or something workout of just go go go and I look at him and I go dude what do you want and he goes what do you mean

38:24I go what are you taking are you on some steroids or what and he goes he got pissed he goes don't ever accuse me of that again he goes you he goes don't ever say that again never that was like the one thing where if somebody said anything like that he was so offended because he was just a farm boy his brother was frigging just as strong if it was stronger yeah his brother was a gorilla - and his brother fought in the UFC once right yeah and walking back to the locker room after that fight his brother Marcos that wasn't really all I expected I really I it was fun but I don't think I'm I don't think I'm gonna I don't enjoy that that much Wow and he killed the guy he beat the up yeah that's interesting yeah I mean even identical twins they don't necessarily think identically right yeah yeah Matt was a he was a real freak and a real important figure in the history

39:14of MMA you know like because you got to think 1993 it all starts and then from then on it's been sort of this learning experience trying to figure out what works and what doesn't work and in my opinion Matt is one of the big pieces to that puzzle because we had had some powerful wrestlers of course you had Coleman and so many other guys and they were basically all about ground-and-pound yeah I mean the only time Coleman got a submission in the UFC was when he he headlock Dan Severn or kin Oh birds yeah take away because I had taken for know yeah a headlock yeah it was like a judo system oppressor a compressor yeah look nobody wants to get stuck in that with that gorillas back then he was ungodly strong when I trained him for the pride Grand Prix right yeah he called me up and he goes I want to come there and train with you and he had lost 2 or 3 fights in a row

40:02at that point so he was kind of cannon fodder put into that pride Grand Prix he was just a name at that point yeah and I go alright come you come here you got to do everything I tell you to do we're gonna we're gonna train hard I'm gonna I'm gonna torture you and he's like that's fine and he he wanted to come there I think because I had so many scary dudes at the time like Steve Rusk who wasn't even a fighter could kill every fighter I've ever trained I mean you just walk in the room take off his fatigues from humming beat the out of everybody in the room and then go back out hunting or fishing that's just that's that was Steve Russ he didn't fight he fought four times and just goes you know what I I'm not I'm not into it but I'll come into the gym and help everybody get ready he he helped me coach my IFL team but he was a guy that after I fought Lindland when I got

40:47kicked out of my weight division when the UFC goes you got to move up weight division I went why they tell you have to move up they go you've trained yourself out of a spot you have Jason black Rob Lawler and Matt Hughes all at 170 they're all ranked I think in that's at the time top ten in the world and they go and I had done my comeback fight after losing the title Carlos knocked out Sione Carter so in my contract it said that I have an automatic rematch clause right and they go not not happening you're moving up to 185 and I go I'm not big enough for 185 right but I realized at that point business-wise how easily I could be discarded right and it kind of it kind of ruined me to be honest with you mentally it just was like I don't even want to do this but neither here nor there Lindland after we fought he came to my gym to train for one of his fights and Steve Rusk is

41:40there that day and Rusk was a great Greco guy and now it's the Olympic silver medalist Greco guy going against a guy that's an unknown and Rusk ragdolls and we're going winter stays on the mat and Lindland gets taken down and Linwood won't leave the mat you can't believe he's getting taken that down no name right so rust does it to him again does it to him again does it to him again and finally the whole team goes Lindland get off the mat get Wow linen comes over and sits next to me he goes who the is that guy I go it's Steve Ross he's just these Steve he's destroys everybody's a lot of those guys and Jim's out there that don't want to fight with their super high level Danaher was telling me about some guys that he has in his gym rec some of his best top guys that go in competition absolutely yeah no Rusk was a guy who he grabbed it was Dave Strasser who fought

42:29in the UFC for a while Dave was a tough guy it was very tough but Russ grabbed the he was in Dave's guard and he grabbed his foot and a shin bone and went like this one was gonna just break his foot off right that's how strong this guy was and Strassman staffs out it gets up and looking at him like there's no way I'm ever grappling with you again he goes stay away from me I don't want any part of you ever again and Nick Ackerman who was a national champion wrestler he won the Hodge trophy the same year Cael Sanderson wanted they were Co recipients of it and that Ackerman was the guy who was a national champ who had his legs were gone from his knees down an actor Minh was almost as tall as me on his knees that was another guy in our gym that was so strong that he would just he could just crush your ribs by squeezing it just massive massive power it makes you

43:20wonder like what would it be like to grapple Karelin when he was in his prime cuz even the great grapplers would grapple him and go what in the is that all about he would yeah he was gut-wrenching people and snapping spines yeah literally snapping spines like when guys would flatten out and you'd see a 290-pound man panic like lay down flat on his stomach try to flatten out and do everything they can to keep from getting launched and he would pick them up like a half-empty sack of potatoes and slam their jesus your see his parents know tiny little people really yeah they called him the experiment were they gym gymnast one was a gymnast or something and the other one was a little power lifter or something I'm not sure I'm not sure but they were like five five right and you know you see him he was just this giant Panther it really was like a panther like he

44:09didn't he didn't even move like a big guy he knows like a small guy yeah and and he was a giant I think that you know there was probably some some sort of beating since the way oh.what beaten the system that was a part of the system that guy was on everything 100% you look at his face his forehead came forward and everything just looked massive amounts of growth from everyone kinds of stuff it probably had him on growth and he was a little baby I mean they probably just shot him up with growth from the time he was little scarier than that it's terrifying but look what they're doing right now in China there is here's Karelin in his prime okay massive man massive man this guy's battle it to look at this I mean that guy that giant dude on the bottle probably never had anybody rag Dom like that before no and it was also like the way he would work out when you see with like some of the that

45:01he would do like some of his kettlebell workouts and a shield cast that he would do with club bells and and steel plates and he was all about movement yeah circular circular motions like mm-hmm so your gym having all that true functional fit like to see Indian clubs in your gym I went alright he gets it yeah he really gets it Indian clubs I collect all the old ones oh really and three good ones the huge good ones right yeah all that sort of stuff so a guy named ed Thomas taught me about true functional fitness long before any of this CrossFit crap and all this stuff came out right so ed Thomas dr. ed Thomas and I didn't know he was a doctor he just showed up at my gym one day he walks in a little unassuming dude and he goes hey he goes pati go Simon ed Thomas he goes do you have time for me to teach you some stuff when I went sure you know whatever it

45:51was the middle of the day nothing was going on so he brings in Indian clubs kettlebells old med medicine balls old leather stuff and I at the time never seen any of this stuff I didn't know anything about it well he was raised in the Turner halls in Davenport Iowa and that's where he learned functional fitness and the Turner halls were brought by the Germans here because the the Germans used Turner halls back in Germany to train a generation to become warriors to protect the nation and that's where that mentality came from so everything they did was cargo nets pommel horses Indian clubs heavy kettlebells all kinds of crazy just functional fitness stuff they would climb cargo nets yeah serpentine inside of them they would swing the cargo nets and the kids would serpentine in and out of them as it was swinging all kinds of crazy stuff right definitely the Rings they were doing a

46:35lot of the Rings stuff and power you know being able to do hiring crosses only sort of stuff that's the way they raised their kids and so he was at the time I think it still is one of the first and foremost guys on functional fitness he was the guy that taught me how to train upside down with gravity boots doing all kinds of crazy stuff with medicine balls and kettlebells and bands and everything else you could do stand it up you could do upside down and he rebuilt me at the time but he came in taught me for an hour he said I'll leave this equipment here with you you can teach your guys what I taught you and I'll come back you know another time and I was like yeah and we were talking for a second I got on the phone and I turn around he was gone well he's he was a three times in Vietnam he was a Tunnel Rat he signed up for extra tours he would go in and kill the

47:19Vietcong sleep sleep amongst the bodies and then go back out and find another tunnel and kill people again that's what he came for three years just hardcore guy but the guy that owned Taekwondo times at the time his kid was training underneath me and he goes I heard you met a friend of mine I go who's that he goes doctor ed Thomas and I go well he didn't say he was a doctor but I could tell he was one of the most intelligent people I've ever met in my life he goes yeah he's a scholar I mean this guy's a warrior genius right this he's a man and he still he's still up in Des Moines Iowa I haven't talked to him for a few years but that guy taught me what real fitness was about wow this what year was this dear god I've been hanging that so much on yeah now you're great for a guy's been hitting ahead as many as you well I never had a concussion I will say that well you must have never

48:06had the concussion really no but what is a concussion a concussion is like will they check your pupils they're not dilate under directly in other word no concussions at all all that hard sparring no never I find that hard to believe it he never got hit with a shot that I didn't see coming and I think that's never no no wow besides one time in a huge fight where a dude hit me in the side of the head with a brick and I saw it last second I at least rolled with it and that didn't give you a concussion I he it was a huge brought it was hip-hop night at the nightclub I was bouncing that Oh sounds like fun and the heavy and Illinois gangbangers and the Iowa gangbangers started going at it I tried breaking it up and they all attacked me right Jesus so that's when I everybody was wearing it was wintertime so I was choking people a guy got me in a headlock and I

48:51was grabbing people by their coat lapels and I hit my head in between his head and his head and I choked him unconscious I'd find a new coat and I was working my way backwards out the front door and finally snuck out of the headlock put him in a rear choke went backwards out the door he went limp I dropped him and then as I turned to get out the end of the street because there was cops everywhere at that point there's dogs it's a snow storm last second I see this coming at the side of my head then I duck and it bounces off my head and this dude goes yeah like I was gonna go down and I turn and I looked at him in rifle dame on the right hand and knocked him out and then the next thing you know there's just dogs diving into the crowd oh it was a good one that was a fun one dogs that's not good now yeah dogs work they work they work real well it's not good because

49:34they don't know who the they're biting they might buy you they might mind the bad guys who the dogs don't know the bouncer is and they clarify it out real quick yeah they do yeah and a Lamaze is that were using back then it was shepherds yeah there's all German Shepherds yeah Malinois hadn't even entered the scene at that time I have a buddy who trains dogs who doesn't like Mau Maus says they're too bloodthirsty said they were aggressive yeah he goes they don't listen as well interest he goes he goes I can trust a shepherd he goes bite hold and release yeah he's like if I sick I'm al mana no see he was also don't trust him like as a pet right you know he wants a dog that is is a real train bite dog but also good with the family yeah hang out with your kids right well it's like I've owned Mastiffs before right and Mastiff Mastiff there you know I had brindle

50:20Mastiff and I always loved to have males and I had a stalker for three years who was a psychopath right so that was when I got my first mastiff king he was 210 pounds but he was a brindle scary look like a Bengal tiger right and he that those dogs are so powerful you know at that size when they're truly in shape where you can't stop him and there were people that were using Mastiffs for police work and they stopped using them because 210-pound Mastiff on the human being they can kill them really fast yeah this is not a this is not a bite dog this is a dog that can just have a screw go loose and rip somebody's throat out the heartbeat yeah it's too big that hurts them if something hurts them and they they they think oh this is a fight right I'm just gonna rip your head clean off your body right and that master tested me a couple times ooh for alpha position in the house oh

51:10no it was one time up plastic bag when the wind was rolling through the woods and on my property and he ran and he grabbed it and I told him you know King come here front and he came up to me and I put my hand on the plastic bag and he goes I say all right here it is this is test time so I ripped the bag and it came out of his mouth right and he really got pissed off at me I was testing him so at that point I'm like well I can't back down to it now this is it so I put my fist against his teeth that he was showing and I was gonna do it do it seize this gradually and he's like this with his teeth going home I'm gonna do it do it and finally he turned and backed off and then I pet him and he was wagging his tail and I was like oh that was that was kind of scary Ryan Parsons got in a fistfight with his Mastiff really yeah he had a Neapolitan Mastiff in college and they got in a

52:03fistfight he goes it was a real fight he goes I had a fight with my man I'm like maybe maybe he did more likely you punched your Mastiff because it was a real fight I wouldn't be talking about Chuck Smith's now dead I'm Neapolitan that's a giant dog I beg you I have a Regency Mastiff okay half Mastiff has behalf pitbull oh wow about a buck forty that's a beautiful dog he's a great dog it's old now he's like 12 okay he's had some some years under him just socializing really good oh he's a great dog he's the best it's what everybody gets along with every dog every person that's good I got him because his dad was on fear factor his dad was an attack dog on fear factor people in a bite suit and they try to run away and right dad his dad was also the dog that they modeled they used him for CGI for the Hulk remember when the original one of the Hulk movies

52:55with Nick Nolte and Eric vana Nick Nolte was the bad guy the Hulk's dad and he he'd injected Hulk serum into his dogs and so the dogs would get to a certain point and they would you know they get angry and they'd war they would Hulk out would they turn green no they were just big okay okay yeah seems like they should right no I don't think they did I think they just look at the he's looking for found it yeah oh dear God yeah that's scary that was like real bad CGI too boy when you watch that movie it's funny cuz that wasn't that long ago right I think that was only like 15 years ago what year was that if you had to guess fifteen years come a long ways we'll see yeah so his dad my dog Johnny Cash his dad Curley was in fear fact and that was literally what he was built like Wow but smaller than that obviously that's that's when he Hulk's out so they took him and sort of exaggerated him huh

53:55basically looked like that you could find him just just Google Regency Mastiff Curley he was a famous stud ridiculous dog but the thing about the dog was when we had him on the set he would just chill he was a black dog so none of those are him it's probably a lot of dogs named curly is alright it doesn't but the dog was just so friendly yeah like and then when it was time to go when they put the bite suit on people it was hilarious because we were using mal Moss for a while and you get like a big football player type dude is about 240 couldn't bring them down they can't bring them down they could hold on to it they could that dogs only 60 70 pounds around curly grab a hold you and it would be like they got hit by a truck it would just go flying in and crash the ground and one of the ones that we did was actually my friend Ed's girlfriend was on the show and I

54:43knew her before it was like Jesus I felt bad because she weighed like a buck 10 and they're putting her in this bite suit on and then curly hits her like literally like she got hit by a tree like someone took a tree one of those swinging trees and just boom did she's hurt she's okay she's dead how many how many episodes of Fear Factor did you do where you were like this is horrible to do to one when they had to ride Bulls one when they had a drink come there's the dog I'll see the talk it's these people just boom get down like you're not going nowhere oh nice but the problem was with these dogs is they bite so hard that if they get a hold of a bone through the suit they can break a bone yeah oh yeah anyway great dogs you had people drink come on come I never saw what was it like it never aired it was a donkey come what happened was it got out on TMZ and then we they

55:42played horseshoes and they had a day at a drink donkey come and donkey urine and yeah that's part of course it was hard court that was there's two episodes where I said don't do it one of them was riding bulls and the other one was the donkey calm people got hurt right the riding bulls did we got lucky yeah no one got hurt we got lucky just just roll the dice yeah cuz this was the funny this stuntman I'm sure you working around stop men before right animals yeah broken bones don't mean anything to them those guys are stare animals they're just some of the toughest people for sure in all of showbiz right yeah and their attitude was like yeah they'll be fine Oh baby fine and so my friend Perry who's the stunt guy was like don't worry about it boo their stunt dogs are their stunt bulls right I go their stunt Bulls did you have a conversation with that bull cuz he understands that's a bull

56:33that's a bull they're so big cuz we were I was standing next to the person while they were they were you know there's the epen and they they sit on top of the ball and you're right there so I stand right next to him on the platform and I'm like don't do it there's no way you're gonna hang on there's just no we my first year in college wrestling at SU Empire up by the South Dakota border middle of nowhere we got recruited by a guy that was an all-american at Iowa State Johnny Johnson who was the coach up there right and myself and three other buddies Mike Wolfe from American Pickers wrestled with me that year up there right and he's actually a tough guy a lot of people don't realize that Mike Wolf's actually a really tough dude but to keep ourselves busy we would go all the wrestlers would go and there was a there was fields everywhere next to the college it was small junior college

57:22in the middle of nowhere right so there was this huge angus ball in the field right by the college so we would go over there and the first guy that could grab the bull's head would win the money would put money in the pot right so we're running around the the farm under the farmer pulls up one time in his pickup truck and he goes what do you idiots doing well we put money in a pot and the first guy that can grab the bull's head wins and you know that's that's the game we're playing right and he goes you guys stay off my property ban knock this off and then we got to where the Sheep would always escape another farm and come on to the lawn of the college and Mike Wolfe and I got in trouble one bed we'd take these these Rams and we'd smack them in the forehead palm him in the forehead to get him to jump up on their back legs and try and smash us and then we'd sidestep him and

58:07headlock them and throw home and stuff like that that's what we were doing for fun back there so Mike Mike Wolfe one of the ladies that worked in the cafeteria sauce doing it and she goes you boys leave those animals alone quit stop doing that right that's cruel and it was a hurt no we were just having fun we were bored college kids right and I said yeah but you should see what squirrel does to him and squirrel was one of the basketball players from East st. Louis who played on the basketball team up there and we had guys from Miami South Side of Chicago East st. Louis you know just tough ghetto kids who got thrown into this this farm atmosphere it was totally foreign for them but we made the joke and this was a very religious cafeteria lady and I said you should see what squirrels doing to him and the next day we came in for lunch he was scolding squirrel about bestiality as he's

58:58looking at me so yeah that was good times good times man yeah that's a ridiculous thing to do with your time we had nothing else to do I understand you should find something else to do you need something some guidance well that's that's the hey warden Iowa which is right on the South Dakota border tiny little town the college was there and one night I went drinking and I got in a fight with a bike gang and they were beating me with pool cues but that's I you know whatever it happened but I had a guy a biker was at the urinal and I walked in the bathroom and he goes quit dragging your feet eighth man and I go you know people that mind their business don't get the kicked out of them right and he goes bring it so I crushed the toilet with him right I beat his head on the toilet and pounded the toilet it's like Roadhouse and but then the the other bikers heard the commotion and I

59:55came out of there and they're all sort of beating me with pool cues and I was fighting my way out of there and I made my way out I got back to the school and my scalps all split open everywhere and my arms are beat to hell from blocking pool cues and I lost my gold necklace so I had to go down there the next day to go back and get my friggin the necklace it was a big rope chain necklace that my girlfriend of the time I bought for me and I walked in and I go I lost my chain here last night and the owner goes yeah he goes you put five people in the hospital last night he goes don't ever come back here again man don't don't come back this is so that's just the way it was that was Iowa that was Iowa well we don't know it has such a reputation for tough guys when it comes to wrestling no I mean the Iowa wrestlers there's it's like you know like there's like Thai kick boxers mhm

60:42Iowa wrestler yeah it was always this thing was almost synonymous with Iowa when Gable was coaching the Iowa wrestling team beat up the football team on the basketball team on numerous occasions you'd have to go get those guys out of jail they just beat up the whole team well I can only imagine you know if someone actually thought they were tough guy and they talked to those tough guys it's like well we've got to show you something yeah because you're going through this life with this delusional perspective and luayn ed Banach and guys like that just King Mueller back in those days some very very scary Russell I don't think people truly understand the difference between them and regular human beings I just don't I don't think they've never experienced it the explosiveness the tendon strength the just the power the sheer of just violence that those guys can bring in a

61:29short burst of energy it's until you get used to it you see it all the time in in fighting right hmm a guy who's never trained with guys at that level of athleticism Brian suddenly find themselves getting mauled by a superior human being going holy Sh I never had any idea a human like this even existed well you see it when you're well finds you when you're well Romero gets ahold of guys when yo while you're talking about a guy who meddled in every single international competition here and beat Cael Sanderson when when I was it was 18 years old right yeah that's a scary dude and beat him twice yeah he's a monster yeah and when he gets ahold of guys so you see the way he ragdolls people you look holy that's what it is this is this next level athleticism next level strength next level technique and then also just being forged in the competition of that Cuban wrestling

62:24program did you see the podcast I have with him last week no I had him on last week with Joey Diaz and Joey Diaz translated for him okay and they went back and forth like you know you always try to speak as much as he could in English yeah and then Joey would sort of translate the stuff that he couldn't read he just detailed his time in the system and the Cuban wrestling system and how intense it was I wouldn't I mean think about the communist country that's your ticket yeah - at least leaving the halfway decent life well just to eat yeah oh he was talking about the difference between the way the elite guys would eat and wait where they would sleep they would get three meals a day the other guys would get two Wow and the food would be better everything would be better motivate you to win yeah and they're all together that's the thing they're all training together so the

63:04guys who want your spot or right next to you everybody knows like oh you got a hurt wrist they know everybody knows everything right and he's like that competition just makes you a machine and the guy that's eating two meals a day wants three meals a day yeah yeah and then in then on top of that you have these incredible genetics I mean the Cubans have un-fuckin'-believable genetics it's just an amazing pot but that's that's really one of the more fascinating things about competition is to see all these variables and to see like when you think you've reached this high level oh look at this there's another level past that yeah there's another level past that and let you see yet you see guys who in no way shape or form should be a champion or upper echelon athletically or genetically but they figured out how to do it right right right just super smart yeah yeah but you see a guy you know I

63:56would say you know if you were to see let me think smiling Sam Alvey on the street right right right and you've gotten an argument with him whatever reason you think I'm gonna kick this guy's ass this weren't sweater or the time looks like a car sales the guy's tougher than you just would never guess you'd never guess yeah there's a lot of those guys I haven't done them you know now you look at Evan Dunham looks like a nice gentleman right I beat the out of you and you just go home ago I'm never fight together that's just the stupid yeah well you'd learn that in jujitsu too I remember when I first started training I'd get choked out by guys it just looked like nothing computer get weighed 150 pounds yeah well the especially now like I think now Jiu Jitsu has really been adopted by a lot of like Eddie calls them like nerd assassins right because they really are like these guys who are

64:46just really smart or into the technique and into the fact that it's it's a jujitsu by a computer programmer yeah yeah that level of thinking through things and that's cool I rolled with a lot of guys like thank know this this is stupid yeah this guy is especially now with the leg lock game with a leg lock game it seems like strength is less of a factor mm-hmm you know guys are isolating legs and and you're constantly defending against that and whatever strength that you do have in your back and your core and your upper body you're not really getting a chance to utilize it you're just trying to defend if you don't understand the positions right and they get they get deep they get a couple steps in on you like if you know it doesn't tie this job and I always loved leg locks I love leg locks and a guy like Dave man a Matt Hume those guys were all sick leg

65:32lockers right yeah sure Eric Paulson good leg Locker a lot of those guys that were the catches catch can and the combo who did Matt Hume wrestle in that do you remember that one time we're Peretti put together a thing with Dan Gable was the commentator with Peretti he went against an Olympic wrestler I'm pretty sure my knee Johnson Kenny Monday Kenny Monday I think it was Kenny month it was either Kevin yeah because Jackson lost the Kevin Jackson lost to Frank Shamrock no that was you up so that was Dan Severn no Dan Henderson yes - Frank Frank got him in a foot lock right right yeah yeah I think it was Kenny Monday that's when Kurt Angle was calling the action and I was sitting next to Kurt Angle and Kurt was asking me questions what's what's he doing right so don't know what to say on there right yeah that was an interesting thing that submission tournament I thought it

66:21was great I thought they would never do it again I think but they kind of do that now anyway they do do that now but for whatever reason it doesn't get that much attention although Eddie Eddie Bravo's figured out a way to give it a little bit more attention have you seen combat jujitsu a little bit they're doing it basically like pankration style slaps like open hand strikes and you know it opens up it's it's also like what we're talking about before with there's some stuff that you can get away with an MMA because there's no head buds there's some stuff that you can get away with in other styles yeah like in in kickbox even because there's no clinching and there's no elbows right there's all these different little things well with it with Jiu Jitsu there's a lot of positions where a guy could just smack you in the face you'd have to let go the lock right and now

67:03guys are doing that with combat Jiu Jitsu and it's a good intermediary step between I think it's a good way to find out if you're meant for MMA - that - yeah yeah yeah yeah I find Eddie I've always found Eddie really interesting he's a trip he's a trip and you can tell he's a thinker you know what I mean he's a very analytical guy a very analytical grappler with great flexibility I just always would watch him go this guy's slick man he knows a lot of especially when it comes to jiu-jitsu and I'm talkin you know I'm gonna see him tomorrow morning oh really what are you doing you know Sam I'm triply sure I know Sam very well yeah so I'm doing that show and he's gonna be there I want him to explain Flat Earth to me he's not going to be able to I want to know but this is what it is Eddie thinks that everybody's lying that everybody in NASA and the government and

67:54he because of that I believe he has a blind spot and that he if they're telling you the world's around he's saying well it can't be wrong right and it's not a good way to think no but it's the same reason why he's so good at jujitsu because he sees an idea and he just pursues it in chases after it he just is like it's all you know it's all quantify it's all right there two bodies it's all very simple there's no mystery right you know it's just a figure it's just figuring out a puzzle yeah but I can see how people get that way because I was a guy who you know not to go off on a tangent but I think it's fun to think about in 1971 when I was you know a young boy standing in line in albia Iowa with my grandma and my mom when the farm collapse was happening when Nixon took us off the gold standard right fell apart for the farmers right away and my grandma was one of the

68:41first people in line to get her money out of the farmers National Bank in Alba Iowa and she got it out and I remember still to this day standing there and asking my mom I go what the hell is going on why is this happening what's going on you could see the panic the farmers went four blocks right from all around that part of Iowa and it just I think that's what started the wheels turning in my head about being a contrarian thinker well there's real conspiracies and there's real things where people misunderstand the the actual facts right flatter is not one of them no it's not I mean there's so many stuff I mean look snipers use the curvature of the earth to calculate ballistics yeah it's just it's just it's a real thing right I mean there's plenty of that's not real but I want to tell me one thing I want him to explain it's gonna be frustrating he might have

69:30let it go by now I'm hoping he did right I don't talk to him about it anymore I just we had a few conversations about it on the podcast and initially he thought it was stupid he thought the Flat Earth concept was stupid and then all of a sudden he started being open-minded to I'm like what the are you saying like what the are you saying this is crazy and he's like he kept it's going to they faked the moon landing they're like suddenly the same people right like if they did that was a long time ago you're talking about people right now there's satellites all over the world they there's a lot of people that think satellites are fake I think Eddie thinks dinosaurs aren't real yeah Wow yeah you know it's interesting and I never and the first time I fought in the UFC I went in to thanks dinosaurs yeah it hurts hurts my head I went into the the production

70:17trailer at my first UFC I wanted to see what was going on in there right that was that always intrigued me how TV was put together right and I was lucky enough to bring my daughter to one of our broadcasts with access TV and Lonnie who's he's the expert to find the satellites he's got an app on his phone have you ever seen guys do that no he has an app on his phone where he can punch it in and do this across the sky and spot all the satellites right interesting so he knows how to dial into him call up know the the coordinates to turn the the dish towards and lock onto a percentage of the satellite you know receptor to get it beamed back down all that sort of stuff so he was teaching my daughter how all that stuff was done and it was first time I've ever seen this like this was pretty pretty amazing stuff but yeah you can see the curvature of the earth and how the

71:03satellites are set across the horizon right well you could track satellites the thing is these guys don't even believe in satellites here's what the problem is if someone has no interruption and they put together a video and that video they're articulate and they sound calm they use big words and they show you images that they're claiming show that the earth is flat that there's an ice wall outside of Antarctica that the government won't let you go there they start saying all these things if there's no one there you know like Neil deGrasse Tyson type guy there's go hey hey hey no that's not true here's why and here's how we know and here's what we found out and here's a test you can do yourself here's how you can figure it out right and here's weekís what you could find online and here and like for the longest time they were trying to say that there was no

71:47full pictures of the earth that the the earth like every photo you see of the earth is a composite know there's a Japanese satellite called the Himawari eight it takes full full images of the earth high resolution every ten minutes you can go google it you can watch them there's the NASA has one too there's there's giant photos of the earth from 22,000 miles out or whatever the hell it is like it's right yeah it's real like there's a lot of to think about that's fascinating that's not one of them like that's been solved no there's a lot you know I'm into the geopolitical and domestic policy yeah right that's where I I was drawn more about what's really going on you know behind the news all that sort of stuff this is and I was lucky to train a lot of law enforcement and then military high-level military and get connected to Intel guys who go that we need to talk like now you're

72:40completely off you let me explain things to you right it was like as far as like what were you completely off about well well I can tell you what I was right about when I called up my buddy and I go hey four years ago whatever it was four and a half years ago I go we're funding Isis aren't we oh yeah yeah NATO's ago between guy what do you think I'll news for Isis friggin Al Shabaab what what do you think so why did they fund Isis to take out Syria it was obvious right the Mujahideen in Afghanistan was the friggin take out the Russians but the way I looked at it was when that was going on funding the Mujahideen was to bankrupt Russia right right we wanted them to go bankrupt and it worked Reagan was was a genius in that part the diabolical part of course is Russia and America both fighting over the resources of Afghanistan right but Isis was just theirs that's some weird when you

73:32have a 50,000 man army just appear out of nowhere with professional cameramen and editors and producers and directors making the high-level films that they were putting out where it's every three seconds they're cut in different angles professionally put together films of people being burned I go this is this this is too weird this is too weird you know what people stop talking about do you remember when they blame Benghazi on some video yeah some video that someone made right was it like the tears of Muslims or something like that or I forget that nobody even knew it existed nobody knew it existed and everybody knew it was right and they were pushing that as a narrative like this is what was the motivation behind and everybody was like what have you had paronto on your show no who's this per on toes his name former SEAL what's his name Toronto are all named ta his last names paronto

74:26but he's a former SEAL there were several seals obviously that ran to try and help the Ambassador and some of the other guys paronto lived through it but you know when he talks about it if they're moving massive amounts of weapons through Libya into Syria into other places in the Middle East right there's just a fact that it's happening and that whole thing going down I think was a way for them to just cover it all up and remove and erase any people that knew about it you know what I'm saying that's the way it spells out to me pretty obvious because it's documented it's all documented that weapons were being moved and if you look at arsenal weapons manufacturing in Bulgaria Saudi Leone ago Toshiba who I had on my podcast the conspiracy farm right she was the Bulgarian reporter that got fired she had a podcast yeah it's called the conspiracy farm okay yeah we don't we

75:22don't start the conspiracies we just add the water like the name yeah my co-host Jeffrey Wilson he's a really bright guy Kool Kreem him yeah so we have fun little t-shirt sky we're conspiracy dude that was gonna bring you on and why he couldn't ship me one soon I will I will okay yeah so it's a bought it's a barn that's a CT Fletcher it's it's a barn with a satellite and a satellite dish down next to the barn oh that's a little that's it right are you doing it out of Iowa oh yeah yeah yeah that's right but Arsenal weapons manufacturing she exposed the Isis fighters took here took her to their weapons caches and there was massive amounts of artillery rounds depleted uranium stuff small arm stuff and it was all Arsenal weapons Bulgarian weapons right and she got fired for exposing it now at the same time silk way Airlines who is a Oscar by Johnny airline their manifests got exposed by

76:18Bulgarians anonymous with manifests of all the white phosphorus weapons that depleted uranium artillery rounds all these shipments massive shipments going into Turkey going into Libya going into the Ukraine right where a bunch of was going down there and every one of those places who showed up the broker the deals John McCain whoa John McCain right and look we can't prove it but there's people telling me that potentially there's an offshore company that owns a big percentage of arsenal weapons manufacturing in Bulgaria right so that's the kind of stuff I'm not going in yeah I'm into who's who's causing it why are they causing it the truth I'm just a truth seeker right don't you seem like that kind of guy for sure don't you think that that stuff is exposed at a level that's never been possible before because of the Internet yeah and that these people are probably

77:11used to operating in a certain way that they've been doing for decades and now they're having to adjust yeah well and and people like you just doing these podcasts and talking about it which opens the minds of other people and and and has them thinking about we you know who are the people screaming the most and I wasn't I wasn't even a trump supporter right I'm a Rand Paul guy you gotta find Rand Paul shirt on right a Ron Paul guy you got to teach him takedown defense lawn mower right blindsided in his defense right yeah but yeah it was that about his neighbor attacked though his neighbor's a lunatic right good times you know but it's a risky thing to do live right next to a guy and attack him right like you're burning the bridge I don't know what kind of sentence that guy got though I don't I haven't ever kept up on that but I was given sentence yet during the presidential run I was

78:02given speeches for Rand Paul a couple of them to introduce him so I'd give a speech then bring him out and I got to know him a little bit that's in Iowa yeah yeah amazing dude we had great conversations a big fan of his dad yeah yeah so but the people that are yelling the most now about Trump and all the other stuff you wonder what they're guilty of right the deep state is just it is a way of doing business right there's smash-and-grab there's pay-to-play smash-and-grab as me as somebody who's very powerful in government going after an industry crushing it ruining its stock and then my buddies buy the company right when it's not collapses and then bringing it back up like the GI Bill for University of Memphis we go after it no longer will there be any GI Bill money put toward that the stock goes from 100 down to three dollars Obama's buddy goes in buys

78:54it then they go oh we're gonna allow GI money to go back into it now stock goes back up right that's the kind of that's going on it's it's some bad stuff and we just do our best to follow it educate people and we have a lot of people who say you're you're a nut you're wearing a tinfoil hat what were you just talking about Jamie about something that you'd saw seen about politicians being exempt from insider trading rules someone on Twitter I couldn't I'll find a name later but if this guy you told me about this guy his name's Peter Swire he's a Stanford professor empire's that's the book that's the book you want to he wrote Clinton - also yeah there's another book that he hit me up - about yes but this is the one that he just have you had him on your show you have none that's a guy that money okay love Mon yeah how the American political class hides corruption and enriches family and

79:42friends yeah it's not a doubt there's that shit's real yeah without a doubt that shit's going on I mean look we were just talking about this recently about how half of what it is to be president is to get yourself into a position where after you're out you can make these crazy speeches for these bankers like why is that like I mean it's it's almost like our man I know there was there was a time when a good friend of mine who was an agent for me at the time got me involved because of all the years in MMA and martial arts I'd met people from all over the world who had eventually moved into peace positions of power in government or cities or this or that and so they said we want you to to help us get our foot in the door to sell waste-to-energy projects so it was basically a facility that burns anything garbage I mean you can burn tires in the thing at low oxygen levels so the

80:31emissions are very low but it generates electricity right and in Europe it was everybody from the city province that country and the European Union everybody wanted a piece of the projects right that's just the way they do business in Europe and South America and other places like that they have to have a different model for it here for the corruption right they just do things differently here and that's just the way it is they've made adjustments and either way they're gonna find their way around it yeah the idea that there's no corruption is ridiculous right no one thinks that so it's how much corruption is there and how many people are out there exposing it and putting their neck out there to expose it that's a big part of the problem because if you really know about it that means you're probably entrenched in the system - yeah and the cognitive dissonance of the the citizenry of

81:19knowing that Hillary Clinton and a few other people sold you know the document just came out it was 15 million kilograms 15 mil million kilograms of depleted uranium yellowcake right sold to the Russians at what point in any part of a discussion on any planet is it okay to sell your enemy 15 million kilograms friggin uranium what was the justification behind if they agreed that this is a fact and this is what's a fact there's something agreed I mean this is there any dispute this is a fact no there is no there's no they but they sit there and use the excuse well there was eight other people that had to sign off on this right suddenly that company suddenly that company invests a hundred and forty five million dollars in the in the Clinton Foundation yeah that's a big problem that Clinton Foundation is insane and all these people that were blind supporters of Hillary that

82:17didn't look at that like how do you not how do you not find a giant problem with that right and that book by Schweitzer talks about it hmm he goes in detail about that stuff yeah I'm sure how surprised I'm surprised that's what I was just gonna say he's after the Clinton cash to the Russians dude Clinton cash was bad enough this one's even worse I'm surprised he's not dead I wonder how many people are actually reading it you know it's I just I feel like they think that there's always gonna be a certain amount of that stuff out there and they just tolerate it and they just as long as it's not really up their business cuz it's not the politicians are still allowing it law enforcement still allowing it no one's really going after them it makes you wonder like if Hillary had actually gotten into the White House and she faced the same scrutiny that Trump is facing right now

82:58over the Russian Prince we know none of this would be uncovered had she won right right I know that right yeah all of this stuff would have been swept under the rug yeah most likely all this stuff with mccabe and struck and page and call me and all these people of going out of their way to try and derail Trump to get these FISA Court friggin spot surveillance friggin warrants to spy on a president-elect and then a sitting president are you kidding me at what point is are people not not charged with treason for that right when they were reached they were doing this spine before he ever won the presidency don't you think that if he was doing something wrong with the Russians they would have friggin made it mainstream news and and busted him for it yeah there's for sure some dummies and his staff that made some inappropriate meetings and had some I mean they

83:50definitely had some intentions well but they had something on him the way I look at it is this I mean if you win the presidency I'm gonna send whoever is underneath me if I'm the president we have to have meetings with diplomats from other countries to make the transition that's that's part of the that's part of the deal right it really is that goes on that's just the way it is but that's not what they're talking about they're talking about before the presidency they're talking about having meetings with Russians long before right well they did plan this whole thing out look they've got enough they're all dirty they got nothing they got nothing I mean if they had something new it would be out there you know it's that projection and diversion and everything else cuz you know the Podesta's were doing lobbying for the biggest friggin Russian Bank in the world right right in

84:33Washington DC that it never comes up it's almost like there's too many things to pay attention to that's like they did everything they just how do you keep up yeah how do you how do you corral it all all the corruption from the stock market to natural resources to everything right it's almost there's too many things to take pay attention to yeah it's it's mind-boggling it's like a giant room full of spaghetti yeah and you're in the middle of it just doing ass it's that saying that is what it's like it does that to your brain when you try to comprehend all of it when you when we do shows and we talk about this stuff it's it's mind-boggling we've only done like 50 so far but we've got listeners in 130 countries so we're doing pretty good that's nice we're excited well you get more now yeah for sure well because you're kicking ass thank you well it's we're gonna mean promoting in

85:22here right here conspiracy farm go check it out so when you started this out what was the intention just is something you're interested in you know I did Jeffrey's podcast it's me speaking to you and at the very end of it it was three conspiracy questions true or false right okay and I said can i elaborate on them though because it might be something that I've actually researched she goes yeah sure so we at the end of it he asked me I forget what the questions were but after we were done I go hey I've always wanted to do this podcast and I want to call it the conspiracy farm and I want to talk about geopolitical domestic policy stuff and let's anything goes I love it man you yeah let's let's do it absolutely so we've had great guests you know a couple Navy SEALs former Spetsnaz terrorist hunter well if you're gonna do sam Tripoli's podcast tinfoil hat just

86:13understand that it's a different kind of conspiracy theory podcast it's like is Bigfoot psychic like those kind of questions and expect to get a contact high from the room I've always wanted to ask you about that George st. Pierre stuff with UFOs I think its head trauma yeah yeah or did he did he have sex with a hot green chick maybe did but if I had a guess the way he was describing things is very similar to the way people describe things when they've experienced excessive head trauma really yeah because he misses time he's memories not not good like he'll get home and then he'll have groceries that he bought and left in his trunk and not even realizing it'll go out to his trunk in the rotten and he's like I don't even remember going to this door wow the alien know so he's got I think he's got this idea that this these glitches in his mind no it's not a coincidence that the guy got

87:07punched in the head I think they did a stat before the Bisping fight I think it was more than 800 times he got hit in the head in his UFC career forget about all the gym just wanna forget about the other stuff and forget about the fights outside the UFC that he had before I got into the UFC when he was in TKO remember yeah so he's experienced a lot of head trauma one of the symptoms of head trauma is memory losses yeah I mean and Hendricks hit him hard a lot yes he did yeah and he's only one guy that hit him hard I mean a lot of guys hit him hard that's era scramble his brain right I mean a lot of guys hit him hard and that's just outside of sparring I mean that's outside of everything else that he's done sparring with Rory MacDonald and Wonder Boy and all the other guys had he had a spar with yeah I think that's most likely what it is okay people who have been who've experienced

87:58a lot of head trauma that's one of the real problems with it yes what is what does it do from the Chicago Bears the famous guy didn't quarterback from the Bears oh my gram yes McMahon was on the cover of Sports Illustrated talking but he'll be in the middle of his his living room holding his keys he had no idea how his keys got in his hand doesn't know where he's going Wow where am I going like why am i standing there holding my keys you just forget stop Gary yeah there's really connections so that's why it's been so impressive that you with your long fight career you kick box to box dude you know you had a lot of MMA fights I think I learned early on with the kickboxing and boxing I looked at the older guys and listen to them talk and went I don't want to be that guy so I started to put on attention to the defense I started watching films on great boxers with

88:44great defense footwork head movement you know all that sort of stuff and just and I and it was the key I never got hit with anything I didn't see I think you have sturdy jeans too you get them croatian jean helps i'm sure it helps i'm i'm the smallest croatian on the planet when you run in the Croatians they're all huge like psycho cro cop type character steve nasty paimio so choose a bear of a human being right super but that's just so have you ever seen the olympic water polo team from croatia no scariest dudes on the planet they're all massive six eight guys that just would drowned you what happened to you there was a time where someone claimed the you had neck surgery and you didn't like a doctor said something about it I was training for a fight with Frank Trigg outside of the UFC it was the first round warming up and I get hit with a left hook in my neck crunched and

89:35my left arm dropped and wouldn't work anymore wouldn't lift at all it was done it was dead like you didn't move your hand no everything was dead Wow so long did that last it was well here I'll tell you that was the end of the first round I get cracked with it right and I go alright let's pick it up the second round and I hit him with like four or five right hands in a row cuz that's all I could do and I crushed his nose need to have surgery because I was so pissed off because I he blasted me right right and I don't think it was necessarily malicious but we were still warm enough and he cranked a left hook on me it was bad so over time everything started to atrophy on this side of the body everything started falling apart it was very painful and I went to a neurosurgeon to get an MRI neurosurgeon goes he goes your spinal your your disc exploded in exploded into your spinal

90:23cord and almost severed it against the other side of your spine canal and he goes to make things worse you have so much to gnosis there's no fluid in there there's no spinal canal it's all scar tissue crushing your spinal cord everywhere cervical E right well so you're in yeah this was bound to happen over all the years of abuse people wrenching on your neck punching you everything else it just eventually gave away so he said you have to have surgery you're Christopher Reeves if you don't like you fall off you fall off a ladder you're done like you have to have surgery and I said no I'm not gonna do it talk to another neurosurgeon he said the same thing then I talked to my cousin at John Hopkins and he goes you're truly a you have to have surgery and I said you I'm not gonna do it so three guys tell you three medical experts so I rehabbed and I got this to come back how'd you do

91:11it there was some some mural work by a guy at Palmer College of Chiropractic which is in Davenport he's during his his name dr. Dave cheering he's the best athlete to ever come out of Iowa but he's a genius when it comes to rebuilding the human body he was the strength and conditioning guy for a u.s. Olympic team some of the sports and then was also on the bobsled team guy was a freak so what kind of stuff did he do he decompressions he know he well that but he put me in weird positions on the table on my side and they would block certain they would put pressure points to stop certain nerves from working all this other stuff and tell me to move certain parts of my body and trying to get most like Rolph rerouting like rerouting of the nervous system and got things going again and rebuilt me and I got to where this was back to a hundred percent it happened

91:57one other time where this side and this arms two inches smaller than this one yeah I could see it and my shoulder is gone here quite a bit there's some things I just can't do I mean I can still do pull-ups and a bunch of other stuff there's just things I can't do I was wondering if my mind was playing tricks on me but no it's right arm look boss went through the same thing yeah right and this is in your neck right now well save my vertebrae is it fused together on their own they wanted to fuse them with once yeah chunks volumes together on their own yeah so the surgery that they wanted to do to fuse my vertebrae together my body did it on its own right I've never even heard of such a thing oh yeah you know long enough when the disc is destroyed and dissolves and then it just all grows together so my vertebra on their luck well that's one of the craziest things I've ever heard right so

92:42I just listened India I just have to be careful because I've been paralyzed twice from the neck down I got hit with an uppercut on the forehead wasn't even a hard punch from Jesse Lennox I was sparring with Jesse before my last fight with Thomas Denny and he hit me with an uppercut wasn't even hard but the whiplash shut everything down from here down and I went rag doll and dropped on my knees Jesus and when I was going down there with all my neck and I knew that it was really bad then another time I got cranked from underneath here and everything shut down again but right before supper cuts know this was a somebody's head was underneath here trying to bear hug me okay but the the uppercut was right before the Thomas dandified a couple weeks before uh and I went well I can't get hit at all now so I went into that Thomas Denny fight and just said you know he's not a

93:27powerhouse puncher by any means but I can't get hit at all so I just danced around for the first five minutes and then knock him out early in the second round and you know got out of there without getting hit but it's amazing the sense of urgency you get when you know you could be paralyzed yeah wish I I wish I wish I would have fought like that my whole career right and you really never get here right yeah so I'm just glad my neck gave out before my brain did so your neck now how is it I have to be careful I still have to be careful have you ever thought about getting one of those artificial discs you know that do that at this point they would have to saw my vertebrae apart and I never heard of them sealing up like that really yeah well they seal together on their own it does happen wow that's crazy so will your right arm come back to a normal size it's been like this for

94:15years now wow I did tons of rehab this was how long ago did this happen well when I was training for the Frank Trigg fight when it first happened I didn't even remember again that seems like I grabbed dates dates are just think about how many fights you've called mm-hmm right do you remember certain years of like any fight that could name or could you pull it I see you as kind of a guy with a photographic memory so you have things that are interesting you're pretty sharp but it was telling that's my wife she's like this are not selective memory but with fights I have a particularly good memory i everything to me because of fighting for all those years coaching for all those years and commentary for all those years so it's one big mess of just fights like I'll remember the huge trig fights forever sure I'll remember you know Tim went in the title you know

95:03I'll remember that sort of stuff but everything else is honestly but like a Jason black who's in a war with a guy from American Top Team and he comes back and he sits in the sits on the stool some of the funniest I've ever seen was in fights all right you've seen it and I think you might even been calling the fight Jason black sits down it's been a war for two rounds of just insanity and Jason Black was a great wrestler just tough as nails kind of guy and I go Jason stop boxing with this guy let's go out let's let's take him down was get him on his back let's keep him there let's rough him up and let's win this round and we win the fight and we get out of here and he's doing this while I'm talking to him he's just looking around at the crowd kind of like this and I go Jason Jason look at me and he looks at me he goes yeah and I go what'd I just tell you to do

95:46and it goes go out and dance with him and the Fertitta brothers are right there and Dana and they start laughing their asses off and I go whatever go out and do what you want to do so he went out it turned into a brawl he ended up losing Jason is one of the guys the first guys that I saw cut weight to the point where I was like okay he might die when he went to 55 he was a anatomy lesson I'm sure you remember when he's five that had zero fat right it was crazy and he was really a strong guy I mean he was I mean if he got help me she ate it yeah there appreciate yeah one of the toughest guys I've ever been around I feel like he was a tweener like maybe a little too big for 50 for seven or 50 too small for small for seven yeah yeah a few guys like that that were like you know real world-class fighters but the reality of those seventies is you're dealing with guys

96:39that are cutting from 205 and up yeah and the reality of the 55 is like that's a horrible strain for your body right right well I remember I you know seeing guys cut weight and be in a lot of trouble physically right yeah but our thing was always make weight no matter what I mean that's just the way it was I think I had one guy that didn't make weight for a fight in the IFL and he got run out of the because of it right right he just got run out of the gym because everybody was so pissed at him for not making weight right I'm seeing some horrible weight cuts with people but I had a weight cut where it was in New Jersey the weigh-ins were the day of the fight which fight was this Joanie Carter at Continental Airlines the remains for the day of the fight that morning right why just the way it was and the way it broke down the way it all went down was I had a new gym

97:24a Gold's Gym building a brand new house had a brand new baby and I had to win the fight to have enough money for the down payment on the house oh Jesus they're already building it we already signed the paperwork oh Christ so I'm cutting weight and I've been so busy that that wasn't paying enough attention to my weight and I was struggling so the whole night I stayed awake the whole night and all I thought about was I know I can beat this guy this guy's not gonna beat me but if he headbutts me or for whatever reason and I don't win the fight and I lose that money I lose my house oh my god I start to panic right and when you're cutting weight like that it's everything's magnified 100 times the right that just the fear and everything else and all I thought about was that water and egg white or scrambled eggs all night the whole night and by the time it was time

98:09to weigh in I went and knocked on Matt Hughes and James Palmer's door and I go hey man I'm in serious trouble right now I'm I because I sucked on ice cubes all night and I gained like two pounds or whatever so I had to go cut again what it's only just from sucking on ice cubes son I 2 pounds of ice cute I guess yeah cuz I didn't even know where I was that I was losing my mind Wow so I did that all night and then so I made weight and then I went back to my hotel room and I started cramping everything cramped I had the time I wrestle in shoes on as tight as I could possibly time so my feet wouldn't Bend like this whoa and then my calves started cramp and everything cramped to the point where I was curled up in the fetal position and I knew I had to fight that night holy so I couldn't see right there was a bunch of stuff going along with my body so I called up Monty

98:54Cox in his room and I go you got to get somebody to take me to the hospital to get IVs or this shit's not happening he goes all right I'm sending Tom shower right so you remember tom tsao yes so Tom's how it comes to get me and everybody who knows Tom knows he had really severe Tourette's right really severe Tourette's like if he's around black people the n-words getting yelled constant right he's around women he's yelling hunt or right the whole time he's really loud so anyway he comes against me takes me to the hospital we're walking up to the hospital in New Jersey the whole hospital is all glass windows everybody that works in the hospital is black oh no no imagine the kind of situation I'm in mentally and physically and I stopped and I put my hand on his chest and I go Tom you cannot go in here with me oh my god you're gonna yell the n-word a million times they're gonna kick us out

99:44I'm not gonna get my IVs right I'm not gonna be able to fight I'm gonna lose my house how's it losing my mind right and he goes Pat it's okay chirp chirp chirp I click right he goes it's fine he goes I'm a Dade County paramedic he goes I deal with this constantly it's okay so we walk in we go up to the nurse at the reception desk and he goes hey he goes my friend click-click-click n-word n-word n-word she looks at him and goes say what and he goes I have Tourette's I have severe Tourette's please don't he goes my friend needs an IV badly and she looks at me and goes oh like I looked that bad my eyes were way back in my head I was in rough shape so they gave me three liters of saline three liters yeah revived me and I feel like a two-liter Pepsi that was another one three of those about three three one liters yeah there's a lot of water right right and so they revived me enough I

100:41was still seeing double when it came fight time and so the first round I just took Shoni down I threw him took him down stayed mounted on him the whole first round to get him to wear himself out right just anything with Poncho's elbows just stuff just not going overboard but I wanted him to be tired going into the second round how diminished are you in this state bad yeah it was bad like half your company baby maybe yeah so the second round I just went okay now I got to end it so I just I had kicked him and knock him out I remember that and I just went I made it out of that with the skin of my teeth who you know but so just weight cutting can be very extreme yeah I really can but we always believed in you have to make weight then you sign your name and that's why I get so pissed off and disgusted when people don't make way yeah well it's a lack of discipline it for sure

101:27if unless it's not physically possible for you to make the weight like if you're a heavyweight you want to make light weight that's not physically possible right so then don't sign it's a lack of commitment see that's the thing that I I'm disgusted most with is that people don't aren't committed to what they do right you've obviously committed to what you do you're very good at the things that you do right it is it's obvious you're obviously a talented guy but you work at your craft right you know there came a time where I had to leave college to go home take care of my alien mother and had to work three jobs and realized sitting in a basement that I was raised in every time it rained it flooded my feet were in water I woke up one morning and I was doing you know had started out fighting and everything and I said this is it I'm gonna win a world title I'm

102:07gonna win the UFC title what's it this is it and I loaded a 9-millimeter pistol and I put a round in the chamber and I put it in my sock drawer and I said if I don't want a world title that gun is going in my mouth and I'm done this is it right so every time I fought I thought about that gun in my sock drawer and not one to go home to it and that's just that's commitment that was my that's what was needed for me to succeed at that point in my life that's the way it was so when I see people not when they're talented and they're not committed I don't want anything to do with them I just don't I don't have time for people like that I'll take a guy who's committed and sucks and train him every day because I love his commitment well there's some guys that just make some real critical errors but they're incredibly talented like never commit off like you know when

102:51he missed a fight the fight with Tony Ferguson and he literally his body was shutting down they had to take him to the hospital all comes to preparation though and red-haired better yeah he should have gotten lighter beforehand should have watched his diet yeah now that he has a nutritionist he made weight pretty easy for his last fight with barboza and now he's gonna be fighting for a title and the guy's a monster he's a monster yeah but you know Askren had a real good point what they do with one Fc I think is the way to do it you know with one Fc they test you they have a hydration test and they test you and whatever weight the champions are they just bumped everybody up a notch and it bumped him up to him 185 yeah yeah like there's no cutting weight here and I think that's just an unfortunate part of martial arts this weight cutting because wrestling

103:34that's what Latinas think about you know they complain about the fighters cutting weight that's for you know three four times a year really it's not that hard right try cutting wait your entire life as a wrestling season and when you wrestle during the winter then spring summer for freestyle and greco-roman made me so small compared to my brothers they were all six four six five sure is I cut weight from sixth grade all the way through high school and into college and then fighting yeah so Mike during my growing years though I was starving right that's just the way it was yeah and so it stunted my growth most likely I'm sure it did yeah there's I knew a lot of guys from wrestling that were like that the brothers were big and they were small but I think that it's just unnecessary for MMA I mean you're dealing with professional athletes at the highest level of the game I think they should

104:20just cut it out I think they should implement a CFC if they do the one Fc rules they test you three times yeah they test your weight they get a base weight off of you they get hydration so is everybody has to follow that same course look everybody has to follow the USANA rules right I don't think I think the the the rules like in in reference to guys using performance-enhancing drugs it's just as critical to keep guys from fighting dehydrated from being dehydrated though no it's I mean obviously there's risks yeah you know fighting dehydrated you saw the witch boxing which boxing match was it was it got a little Italian too got the hell beat out of him was it who fought ward three times in wars Micky Ward and garter Oh God Javad daddy fought a little macho yeah no what did not come out just most macho it was is his name Katie from Maine Louis domain but

105:15he wrecked it yeah it destroyed him because he was just so much bigger yeah yeah so you know there's risks obviously so who was that pull-up Arturo Gatti's retinyl record he would think I remember that his his name was Joe who was from Lewiston Maine's a talented guy yeah and Arturo Gatti was looked like he was too weak classes bigger than him and he him up right yeah okay if you got a P go ahead is he writing it down what do you got here um you just had to go way back no we're live joke a much Joey Gamache that's who it was Joey Gamache I remember that that was horrific that was mm man time flies how crazy Pat Miletich tough guy can't hold his piss now we know he's probably had a hard time cutting weight doesn't make any sense um pull that fight up I'm gonna see that fight make you Arturo Gatti Joey Gamache that was a disturbing one the thing is like you see so many of those kind of

106:16chaos in MMA makes you realize yeah our tour Gotti was just far bigger than him in this fight and he was also this is Arturo Gatti when he was really world-class - at the top of his game but they're working on a gaudy movie or something well you know he was killed by his girlfriend and he's killed by his girlfriend she got away with it or his wife his wife was this Brazilian chick and she got out of jail when she got out of jail she was smiling it's really disturbing he got clipped there with a left hook it was real bad like they think that there was some severe there's the ko they think there's some severe corruption involved in her her acquittal because she got acquitted in Brazil and they said that he was he committed suicide but he had some sort of blunt force trauma on his head it was a it was a big deal and was very it was very sad for a lot of people that were our oh god

107:12he fans because his fights with Micky Ward were there's fights where guys are matched perfectly where it's like their skill level we're talking about Arturo Gatti and Micky Ward and how God he was uh Pat Miletich returns from the restroom how God he was killed by his girlfriend or his wife right and acquitted she was acquitted and there's like pretty obvious and someone murdered them and they passed it off as a as a suicide and then because of domestic or something no no she killed him man and when she got out of jail she was smiling she's like she's like taking they're taking pictures of her leaving jail I think is just a Brazil job like right no corruption in Brazil who's bad is bad I mean they tried to get rid of the president recently right they were just stealing money yeah period right there's some severe corruption in Brazil and apparently in this case most

108:07people think that she killed him and that she got away with that to get an understanding two of the Brazilian people you have to read a book called to Guerrero you ever heard of that well I saw the City of God though yeah you want to understand Brazilians watch that movie City of God I've never heard of it holy tell me about this moving up so El Tigre or - Guerrero was a book about Sasha and earnt Cemil - Russians who had engineering degrees who went to Brazil around 1920 1921 during the diamond rush right hmm and this is when ironically I think when the the Gracie started learning jiu-jitsu right about the same yeah about the same area so Ernst and Sascha assemble both were catch wrestling guys and boxers and it just tough Russians right we know how tough Russians are so anyway they are working their way through Brazil and through the Mata Grosso stopping at ranches and

109:03towns fixing guns because the Brazilians didn't know how to fix their guns to pay their way further in as they were getting towards the rivers and all that sort of stuff and to find diamonds so that was their thing but during all of this sascha Cemil was fighting no-holds-barred fights against paraguay and strongmen and all this sort of stuff in in the ring and then he became a guy who was what's called the - Guerrero a guy who can use a spear and kill one of the big cats and the jungles back then that was killing the cattle killing the ranch hands all this sort of stuff these are 400-pound cats right these are big scary panthers in the jungle so he went and sought out and found a a Indian a Brazilian Indian who was supposedly a torero the expert and he found this guy and the guys just drunk just completely drunk and he goes I want you to take me and teach me how to do this and so they

109:56go and the guys drinking the whole time and he goes they run across a big cat and what these cats would do is riflemen on horses would go track the cats the cats would double back on them take him off their horse and kill him right so they were killing riflemen so these cats were smart so this guy taught him though he watched this guy drunk kill a 400-pound cat with a spear and then he taught him how they would sit on their paws whether they were going high to attack you whether they were coming low how to position the spear all that sort of stuff so Sasha semel became a white guy who killed thirty three big cats for ranches right why yeah spear yeah it's the coolest it's a coolest but you couldn't write it any better but to tell you about the Brazilian mindset there was a guy in one of the gunsmith blacksmith shops where they were fixing guns for people that

110:45this one Brazilian had an attitude and Sasha insulted him in front of the friends so this guy then once you insult a Brazilian back in those days especially they have to kill you because you disrespected them so badly in front of their family and friends and that would that's they're just hot blooded people right you've been around enough Brazilians they're hot blooded people are Wanderlei Silva when he loses his temper and it's pretty scary dude so this guy tracks him for a while and then they they hire a guy that's the sheriff of passo fundo who has a necklace of human ears to prove he brings back the ears of the person you paid him to kill and that's how he got paid right so he had a necklace of human ears and he was hunting Sasha Hertz it's the coolest book you've ever read Wow it's incredible took pellet to Guerrero TIG re ro but it's a rare book a friend of

111:33mine yeah G TIG our erm our to Guerrero it's a rare book it's hard to find and John Wayne was gonna make a movie about it but they couldn't do the movie they were gonna do it in the 50s or whatever it was but they couldn't because the Amazon was still too dangerous there's cannibals everywhere and all kinds of stuff and no malaria and everything else so they there's actually a documentary about going there to do the site surveys and all that sort of stuff and they went did you have malaria in South America I think so something is just in the Amazon in the Amazon and stuff like that really right well I'm sure they got plenty of diseases but yeah the cannibals that's like what got that that Explorer that English explorer in the lost city of Z right I've never heard yeah the lost city of Z is a book that they turned into a movie a couple of years ago about this guy and it

112:22turned out that what he had discovered has now been proved that there was some ancient systems there some ancient civilization yes civilization but also irrigation systems and they figured out that they had all these roads and stuff because of satellite imagery there in some new technology where they can look through the bushes and all the the jungle foliage and stuff and seized relatives and everything well you see this dude that's it them all yeah there he is that's him is that a spear right next to him there's pictures of some gun or a spear gun with a bayonet on it oh but there's pictures of him with spears going up against cats - Jesus Christ dude he was hardcore man he was hard there's a spear that's a spear but it's a animal Jesus cried that's so crazy yeah think about that I spoke to his son I was I was I was writing a screenplay on his life Wow and I talked to his son

113:16Sasha junior about it and he eventually just didn't want to do the life rights thing and all that and what if they ate the Jaguars have no idea cuz did you mountain lions delicious is it I have people that say it so their favorite food really yeah yeah I had no idea you could even eat it but it's apparently a more delicious version of pork Wow yeah it's supposed to be fantastic Mountain Lion loin like the real a clone backstrap from mountain lion mountain lion yeah there's things all eating things I won't I don't know if I'd eat a predator I eat the out of a mountain lion yeah I don't like them yeah I'm killed my dog when I lived in Colorado really yeah yeah I seen I've seen two of them I saw that one and I saw one of them in Santa Barbara oh it's actually driving through Montecito really nice neighborhood I saw this thing run across the road and that

114:05first I thought it was a coyote and then I saw the tail and I went oh that's a cat Wow then I realized it was a big cat not that big no 50 60 pounds because there's obviously some mountains out there giant ones yeah yeah Colorado's got some whoppers and the Coyotes the Coyotes where I live there they're everywhere you ever see the picture of the one we're supposed to get that what ever happened with that the one though the Hollywood sign with the cat with the we were supposed to buy that I need to get I found the place to get it yeah let me let me revisit that and buy that thank there's an iconic photo to me that just symbolizes our intrusion into the wild world and the consequences of it there's an enormous cat that lives in the Hollywood Hills okay and there's a photo of him look at this this is taken by a camera trap this is a real photo Wow have this character tags the

114:57collar on it he got a collar on him they know the cat I had a forget the guys name the gentleman that we we talked about the other day that was oh the the Ranger was explaining to us how they do it they have to dart this every couple years when the battery's dead yeah so every couple years this guy goes in the dreamland like George st. Pierre and I lost the time and comes back oh there's him with a deer oh wow yeah it's like digging a hole I guess now the coyotes are ruthless where I live man they're everywhere they're everywhere when one killed my chicken just two days ago oh really yeah I have chickens yeah yeah I was I was out in the backyard so the jump on the roof of the chicken coop and then jump over the top of the fence ah there's so graceful though they're smart it's oh so smart what am I one of my good buddies who he sold his company to Orkin so he was an expert at getting

115:47rid of deer getting rid of coyotes getting rid of anything off your property getting rid of raccoons out of your house whatever right he's mm-hmm he's the guy that started trapping when he was 10 years old right and some of my buddies did that and he was one of them but he became the expert sold his company to Orkin for a lot of money hmm but he's the first and foremost guy besides one other guy thank world worldwide that is the expert in trapping coyotes and when he explains it to you you sit there and go how smart are these if there's anything out of place they never take the same way back to their den ever they always go a different route they're smart about covering their tracks and to trap them he goes if you do one thing wrong they they recognize it right away and they're gone so he had to go and really study research and disagree here look by Dan Flores it's

116:34called coyote America yeah and Dan is a he's a professor at I think Lizzie from University in New Mexico he's from New Mexico genius guy but he went into great detail about how intelligent these things are about how Native Americans just think they were gods they were tricksters and they're basically wolves they're a small wolf miniature yeah yeah they're just a miniature super super intelligent Knight my old house that I had that had some timber on it and stuff I had the fox den across the creek on the hillside the five watts of Fox coming back with squirrels and rabbits every morning at 4:00 or 5:00 when I'd be up to get workouts and I'd be drinking coffee I'd have turkey vultures on my frigging turkey vultures or this big man they're massive and they'd sit on the railing of my paddock my porch outside you know I hear my wife scream that just shriek and

117:23go Jesus I go white she goes what the her thoughts things and then she not from around there no she's from Montreal first language is French she's a city girl all that well she was studying to be a doctor of chiropractic in in at Palmer which is in Davenport Iowa and so you know the thing is though I had Eagles owls hawks herds a deer coyotes all kinds of crazy stuff running through my yard constantly and that's when I had the Mastiff and a shepherd and some other stuff that you know my Mastiff wanted to kill her everything that came into my mother for sure a big-ass dog like that Iowa's the that's like one of the best places in the world for white-tailed deer they're huge I have a buddy my my friend John Dudley he bought a farm out in Iowa just to hunt white tails yeah so the the Miletich farm is down in southern Iowa and my grandma on the other side her

118:18farm was down there also and it's you know obviously a lot of timber also and it's the deer you see down there and even you know in Bettendorf Iowa where I live which is right next to the Mississippi River the deer are huge yeah I see a deer in Texas and they look like a German Shepherd yeah it's interesting right it's you know what that is that's the the warmth there's a certain principle there's that too corn soybeans all that sort of stuff they're well fed all the time and they did I hit a deer what was it a year and a half ago with my f-150 and all it was was his chest hit the front quarter in front of the quarter panel and scraped down it and destroyed the whole side of my truck just destroyed it they're that big they're tanks yeah now imagine hitting a moose my dad hit a moose almost killing Jesus it it the vehicle caught on fire because the moose crushed into the engine

119:05apartment and caved in the front of the vehicle and then it all caught on fire my dad had to friggin go out to kick the back window out to get Jesus Christ and if you honk at a moose if you stop and then honk at a moose I'll kick your ass they'll run and smash your car yeah yeah so you've just seen a moose I went on a fishing trip one of the many fishing trips I went on in Canada with a friend of mine Mark Lewis and we were in a V bottom boat there was three of us and we were going the English river system if you ever want to go fishing in the summer for bad ass fish I mean you'll we're out catching fish up there it's north of Lake of the Woods and we were going across the lake and the English river system is massive and it's endless amounts of islands you can get lost really easy up there but we were cutting across the lake and we got into this bay and there was a moose swimming across

119:51the band you know the huge rack on it and everything else and my buddy Martin goes pull up next to it know what he goes yeah just pull up right - it's a sin so I pulled up kind of just on its ass and he jumps out of the boat on its back so he's like so he's riding on the back of the moose and the Moose is doing this trying to get to him and finally he jumps off climbs back in the boat we turn away and write down the Moose hit shallow ground and came up right after he would have been dead it would have been dead big animal there one of the rare deer species that almost regularly charges people yeah yeah they people up all that they run in the Duluth Minnesota in downtown and smash everybody yeah they just stomp people in Alaska - and it's usually the problem is if you find them a female that's with her babies that's when you're in real real trouble right yeah so do you hunt

120:43much yeah a lot yeah yeah where do you hunt what do you hunt usually 509 Iowa for whitetail last year southern Iowa I teal he's outside of Des Moines okay about like 45 minutes outside of Des Moines I hunt Utah I shot an elk in Utah this year I got another elk in central California I try to go to as many place as possible I'm going next month I'm going to lanai for access deer okay mostly bow hunt that's right that's cool yeah I love it got a hell of a bow hunting things set up in here yeah it's progressed back there Yannick 45-yard Endora yes that's cool it's good keep practice they the doctor that I told you about Tyson Cobb the orthopedic surgeon the fixed Tim's arm mm-hmm he was a bow hunter who went and got crocodile in Africa you know big all giant game stuff like that and you know the stuff that he hunted was I mean you know killing a grizzly with a bow is the scary stuff

121:41yeah that's a real risky proposition yeah but he did that he did stuff like that yeah yeah my friend Dudley that I was telling you about that lives in Iowa he he does that too it goes all over the world and hunts you miss yeah it's very very risky yeah very risky right but you know it's the thing about the grizzly hunting is like people don't like it like it's gotten to the point where in BC they've outlawed it right and they really shouldn't have and the reason being is that you got to control the populations because there's nothing that eats them right like except them they're all cannibals all Grizzlies all even black bears are all cannibals think the Cubs eat herbs all the time and if one of them dies like if you I've been black bear hunting before and if you shoot a black bear and like maybe you shoot it like right before dark and it runs off in the bush camp line they don't want to

122:30go after it right you come back in the morning bears are eating it yeah they they eat their own I've just been a guy that you know III don't have time to hunt I've gone deer hunting a couple times I just never you know I'm more efficient I love to fish I do too right so that's my passion you do I'll fish for you no I've fished for sharks off a beach before that's another thing that people get mad at they get mad if you´d sharks now well we know we let them go you know that's not not a big deal but I watched a guy from black Bart's tackle company they taught me how to do it off the beach these guys are catching 14-foot hammerheads off the beach dude do you know one of the best places to hunt to fish for sharks rather is off Catalina great white no for Mako okay it's like one of the best mako shark which are massive to huge yeah yeah so but they taught me how to do that I love fishing

123:17for Barracuda just because they're so aggressive it's a fun fish oh my god they're scarier than hell as fast as they hit a lure it's crazy crazy look at and I love muskie pike fishing bass fishing they look like a pike on steroids yeah they are so that's what they are they're the c1 oh yeah mouse keys are awesome so I went muskie fishing at the lacunae Indian Reservation it's the Chippewa flowage where the biggest muskie in the world was ever caught right really house is that sixty seven pounds I don't know but it's huge it's huge coyote size muscle but they've found jaws and teeth of muskies that are twice that size right just washed up on shore type stuff so there's huge musky still but the guy that took me fishing he took a job he used to work in Vegas for the casino down in Vegas I forget which one and he left that and went back to Wisconsin northern Wisconsin because he

124:06wanted to muskie fish right so he took a job with the Lou coutore Indian Reservation just so he could muskie fish so he and he was the vice president oh look at the size of that in there they're terrifying that looks like a person that's like a person decides to fish so that's less than 60 pounds but those will look those will attack you oh yeah you know they'll attack you there that I knew a dude who invented a lure do I know him I know his friend I don't know anyway someone invented a lure that was a duck yeah it was a my grandpa used to fish down with ducklings you hook him through the tail and throw him out on top of the lake and let him swim around in a muskie would hit them yeah is that crazy how they do eat ducks yeah this guy had a lure well you can ask on YouTube and as you reeled it in the paddles the the feet would move right and the muskie would think it's a real

124:58duck and they make oh yeah so they but the guy that was the he was that casino guy that took me fishing what do you got here Jamie called a suicide duck lure oh okay so nice see this is my fishing days are a long time ago yeah this is like when I was a very early teenager like 13 14 I was addicted to fishing I fish constantly I still fish I still love it but I'm out of the loop in terms of like that this is a regular thing so this is a duck also the duck is like he's running away and a muskie comes in Jack's got to make him look panicked yeah yeah but the he was the vice president of the muskie World Association and he took me fishing and he goes there we have tons of muskies that we've radio tagged he goes but when I'm gonna use that that's cheating I know their patterns a radio tag a musky they just put punch the thing by the dorsal fin and it's got a little so they

125:50gives out the transmitter and you know you can find out their patterns or whatever but he goes I'll take you muskie fishing tomorrow if you want to go I said yeah awesome so we go to the bait store and he gets chubs this big that's the bait so we're you're holding your hand out about a foot and a half they're at least 12 14 inch fish right that's the bait right and he'd hook them through by the dorsal fin we go out in the boat drop the the chub straight down then we go back to the island and he had a rod holder put the pole in there set the drag reel light put a bobber at the top of the of the line so you could see the bottom of if something was taken off with it and we did that four separate times with four lines and then we sat in the boat and ate sandwiches and just talked and then all of a sudden the bobber takes off he goes all right I'm gonna pull up you run and grab the pole

126:36jump back in the boat he goes I'm gonna maneuver you and keep you you have to stay over the top of the fish and with muskie trolling motor scare him but a regular boat motor idling does not for some reason so I'm learning a ton of stuff from this guy and he goes we have two for 25 minutes you have to let him turn that fish head first and then swallow that's the rule about 25 minutes it takes them they take their time then we till it's dead they crush it with their jaws and they slowly flip it and then they swallow it and he goes but if it starts to run any time before that you have to try and set the hook that's just the way it is right so and this is my first time muskie fish so when they start chewing on him you just wait yeah yeah you stay over them that so the muskie will be swimming with sighs that yeah so they'll be swimming along so somebody caught that caught that bass

127:20and then the must have the muskie they just have the bass right so you got to let him turn them and then set the hook then he'll catch the muskie right but so that's what we did in at about 17 minutes it took off started to run I set the hook and I caught a 52-inch muskie first oh holy I felt like I set the hook in a log that is a big thing that really cool 52-inch muskie yeah yeah there are northern pike fishings very fun I've done that in Alberta some my favorite times they hit hard yeah and so the English river system where we used to go if you catch up you know a pike this long you leave it on the hook because big ones coming right and the first time it happened to me scared the living out so when you catch a pike that's 2 feet long and you just leave it on the hook let it swim around up there anyway and you just hope in that you're not hoping it's common really it's coming

128:10Wow yeah so cannibals cannibals in the the old water world remember babe Winkleman the professional fisherman Shore also this one is right there it comes and he's just holding it over this bigger one that's underneath it there's such a crazy animal to like Pike seem prehistoric and they are cannibals without a doubt yeah babe Winkleman I watched a video while I was in Canada fishing we were at the lodge and babe Winkleman asking this guy who's an Indian guide he goes so what do and the guy goes Pike the pike and he goes know what to Pike he he goes Pike it's like they breed so they have food that's what they eat that's just they're just aggressive mean fish yeah and they live in that doggy-dog cold water environment where this three time right right yeah well all those animals up there like look we're talking about bears about bears being cannibals and like being cannibals

129:12and the deer 350 pounds it's just a tough hardcore world yeah yeah I mean when it gets that goddamn cold it's a tough world then you go to a whole nother level and go to places like Africa and Australia it's hot it's a another world - everything's deadly in Australia I wouldn't even want to live there that's right Adam Greentree listen to Pat Miletich my friend shot that a water buffalo head in Australia keeps trying to get me to go down there hunt with me with them and he's every time he sends me pictures of spiders that kill you a lizard they can kill you yeah everything everything kills centipedes and they have these gigantic 2000 pound buffaloes that are super hyper aggressive right and they're roaming around smash you know they have to kill them though that's another thing it's like the grizzly bear thing they don't have predators right you know in in

130:00Alaska but they're herbivores so they're kind of meant to be hunted in my mind yes angry but there's nothing to hunt them out there right a problem with Australia is that these are invasive species pretty much everything over there so the ranchers brought them there or something for someone brought them there a long time ago New Zealand's the craziest place because New Zealand is essentially oh they set it up as a wild game park for rich your Europeans right long time ago and so now they have these enormous stags and all these huge animals that live there but no predators so sometimes they have to thin the herd they have to fly over those helicopters and has done them down well they hunt I mean we're allowed they made a rule in Bettendorf Iowa that within city limits you could hunt deer with a bow yeah yeah within city limits cuz there's just so many of them you see a round of 50 of

130:47them they do that in Pennsylvania - okay yeah there's a lot of places where they just get so overrun they have what they call urban hunting yeah when people set up tree stands their backyard you should you know as far as the fishing goes you should go noodling noodling for catfish yeah you gotta bite your hand that's so stupid cuz occasionally you up and get a snapping turtle right or a beaver imagina beaver they can chew down a tree imagine what it'd do to your wrist hello it hurt I did at one time and that was it I knew when noodling one time it was like 14 pounder you know but when they snap down your arm it scares the out of it oh I'm sure right now what is the idea is that the catfish thinks you're intruding or they think it's a fish oh they do think it's a fish so your hand is bait yeah that I like fishing holes I like to be in a boat or on the shore or all the

131:39sophisticated intelligent things yeah yeah so I was gonna ask you how's that how's it been working with Jimmy Smith I love that guy he's bright he's brilliant he's a very smart get him hired about four years ago yeah and I was cuz the UFC was looking for God first of all trying to do less commentary because I'm traveling too much and I was trying to do last I was like you gotta hire this guy he's the best yeah he's really really smart first we're doing our first show together in April okay the Tony Ferguson Habib number good metafile good yeah Kabhi versus tony is gonna be it's a perfect fight for for you know so whose color and play-by-play then is he doing play-by-play you're doing John annex doing okay by play and John awesome both you in color yeah we're just gonna have fun he's my friend he's been on the podcast a bunch of times alright buddy so it'll be yeah

132:24it'll be a good time didn't he cut his teeth doing a TV show about combat sports yeah about he did I was sliding around the world or whatever learning different arts was it called fights aboard what was it call something like that fight quest fight class oh yeah it was yeah he did that but I mean I think he's but he also had MMA fights and he's a legit black belt in jujitsu he's know he knows his stuff super smart and well-read guy - yeah I'm excited I'm excited he's on board yeah I always liked listening to him yeah Bellator up they up and they left that I couldn't I was wondering what so what was I'm not to pry but my guess was he's just asked for more money probably cuz he had an offer from the UFC they wouldn't match it so he well whatever they didn't want him leaving for the UFC four years ago when I tried to get him higher right and there was like a big hullabaloo and they wound up

133:17keeping him and then I think his contract was up and I think the way he described it was they actually wanted to give him less money I was getting and it's like I think they're just experiencing some severe budget cuts right if you think about Bella tours market like what they're trying to do they don't have a pay-per-view business you know and if you don't have a pay-per-view business where's the bulk of all your money coming from it's a kind of bleeding Viacom right I just thought I just thought you know when it happened I said why didn't they change the name when Coker was brought in to take over yeah it made zero sense to me because Bellator had that you know from Bjorn Rebney I've never been a Bjorn Rebney fan Bjorn Rebney you know from that boxing promoter type you know whatever it was and everybody that I talked to in that in that business they

134:03were all terrified and intimidated and everything else is a lot of yeah it was just I never met the guy I don't know anything about him other than the bad things that have heard from fight right and so you know King mo called him a dick Rider King mo and I go back and forth we on the internet on Facebook and stuff I I'll deliberately piss him off on political stuff and just get him stirred up is underappreciated talent when it comes to fighting yeah no he said he that guy was had some monster physical problems though like with mersa he had some serious staph infection some real bad ones that wrecked him mm-hmm yeah that scare he's a great guy though we talk we talk now and then when I stop he's cool dude and but God where were we what are you talking about but Alatorre yeah I should have changed the name yeah it's just synonymous with tournaments and a guy loses the title

134:55and suddenly he's thrown back into a tournament he's already made his name yeah it's just a shitty business model yeah Bellator was for the spanish-speaking crowd right right that what they were trying to get out of that it's a Latin word right I think it's or Roman word for the gladiator or some but yeah it started out as wasn't unlike ESPN Deportes or something yeah yeah it just but it just didn't make sense with kocher taken over and I I don't want to watch the Geritol Posse fight that's how they're doing I don't want to see a Pat Miletich fight I don't want to see yeah right you know yeah I love some of those guys right but I don't want to watch it it's you know it's a young man's sport it's guys that are animals fast movers just yeast invincible human beings in their mid-20s to 30 whatever early 30s a guy that's 45 years old is 45 but 45 years old with MMA miles on them yeah

135:47that's the real issue right it's that these guys their bodies have been beaten up for so many decades in the gym and all the years of wrestling and kickboxing you know they're just not the same no you know yeah it takes its toll it definitely takes its toll and you're just not you're just not the same I mean there's part of me that respects his out of a guy like Royce Gracie still a savage at 50 years of age we're ready to throw down with that anybody he wouldn't fight me he wouldn't some of them when was this I've been trying to I I mean with Bellator I said friggin get Gracie to fight him when he was making shamrock I confronted shamrock on access that was one of the worst fights that I had I was opposed when Matt beat the out of him Matt took his back that was smashing him and I was like Jesus Christ I was like this is this is so mismatched so the voice is in a different era and

136:35Matt is even though Matt's not ranked he's a legit black belt right and a stud wrestler yeah and a physical freak and and super experience with modern high level MMA right right who is living in the past yeah and the thing was with that that was after Rob Lawler Rory Markham myself Tim Sylvia Gann McGee Chuck Liddell all of us were on that movie set in Mexico mm-hmm that Paul Walker film okay right Paulus great guy he was legitimately a good human being I'm sure you knew him and all that isn't no I'm but I just think the stuff the stuff that he did on the set to stick up for the small guys was incredible maybe we got time to talk about it but not or not but we had gotten done with that we'd become friends with Paul Walker and Oakley Lemon who was his stunt double for everything and the stunt guys were all really cool with us they we kind of gravitated towards them because their

137:26stunt guys and we're fighters we got along really well with him but Laurence Fishburne was on the set the Carradine brothers you know I'm a kid from Iowa going this is fun awesome yes sir these are cool dudes sorry this is just to be around these guys but so they were all at that fight in LA and Paul Walker and all his actor buddies were in one world right behind him was Oakley lemon and all his stunt guys and so Paul Walker was a Gracie jiu-jitsu student he gonna love that man so they were cheering for hoist all the stunt guys were cheering from that hey they're the hardcore like you know so anyway Matt just just Mantle's it wrexham completely and and I turn around I'm up on the deck outside the cage and I turned around and Paul Walker and all these actor buddies are like this like holy like I can't believe this just happened standing on the chairs behind

138:17them is Oakley Lemon and all the all the stunt guys going it was it was but I saw half that crowd crying yeah cuz they saw God get destroyed right I mean that's our hero too right voices like for martial arts he he was a legitimate hero he was the first guy to win the Ultimate Fighting Championship and the way he did it it was like oh look at this these guys using technique that we didn't even know exist little skinny guy there's just manly people and the thing was with all of that you know then the Gracie's came back with Hughes was just a better athlete and used all jujitsu Gracie jiu-jitsu to beat Gracie Jitsu so I went through all the stuff he hit a duck under on hoist when hoist tried to hit him with an elbow late hit him with a half-nelson when hoist started to regain guard when Matt took his back there was just a bunch of wrestling mixed in there right yeah and

139:09so then they brought out Almeida now made it was their dog to come and beat Matt right so they put in Almeida who was bigger than that you know he's a big dude for that weight division well Matt deliberately hit him with a wrestling front headlock and choked him unconscious well it was a position that a lot of jujitsu guys are used to being in there and they just relaxed cuz they're waiting for you to spin to the back but instead of spinning to the back Matt just crank that when you stuff the head under the armpit and you crank that down and twist it crush it you just get you get choked that's all there's actually a gorilla like Matt right and so when they did the interview you were probably the guy doing the interview and he goes was he goes you know it was just nice to use wrestling on a jujitsu yeah and put them unconscious right not just you I don't think Ricardo knew that that

139:51could put him out right you know I mean a lot of us have been in those positions before but it's usually a transitionary position where a guy turns and gets your back no one's ever done that since either by the way no no one's ever choked guys is wrestling guys in wrestling will use that stuff you know like Dave Lilla who wrestled for Purdue Dave and Joey a little bit so we're all Americans at Purdue they were beasts and obviously little bits they were Croatians psycho correlations in Michigan City Indiana where they grew up and we'll of ik used to use a move that they named the Lilla where it was you'd include not a Darce but anaconda janicot it was an anaconda right in college wrestling it looked like you had a front headlock and he would choke people unconscious as soon as they'd go limp he grabbed the chin roll him and pin him that's right about that so Dave Lilla vich pin bill

140:41Tate from Iowa State built a it was a waterloo iowa guy and he put him asleep he put him asleep and pinned him in the in the NCAA Championships is that illegal oh it's totally illegal but referees didn't understand it because it looked like you had the arm included in the headlock right right but if you do have an arm included in a headlock well is it your fault if a guy goes to sleep no not at all but see what it say when he go to pin him if the referee recognized he went limp they would stop the match for a potentially dangerous hold or without have to do is get some of these really bad UFC referees to referee wrestling I would have no idea the guy was yeah yeah but there's guys doing that do you see at the NCAA's the guy hitting the key lock on the guy trying to break his arm no ya didn't Mark Schultz do that in the Olympics oh you know I'm not sure if the

141:23guys arm off with that believe he's disqualified I mean the Schultz Brothers was just scared Dave Schultz was yeah unbeatable animals they were trying to build people to beat him over in Russia when men remember when Mark fought he fought Big Daddy Goodrich and threw him a ragdoll them but then in the movie they had they used a different guy they didn't have him fighting Big Daddy Goodrich in the movie they had him fight some Russian because that Foxcatcher or so yeah it was a scene I was like why would you do that this is actual real history right right you really have a guy who's like one of the best wrestlers to ever fight in MMA to us it was a real historical moment and he took it on last second oh yeah he fought Big Daddy Goodrich we all remember it but in this movie you faked it you put someone else in so what else did you fake what other was in this movie where you're

142:09pretending this is a historical recreation of a real national crime that everybody heard about it was a real tragedy and it was a tragedy against a guy who's one of the best wrestlers that America had to offer him for I felt I felt like it was one of the worst examples of what Hollywood does the arrogance of Hollywood due to a real story a real story they just decided the big daddy Goodrich why have him in there right and it would be like Mike Tyson pretending Mike Tyson won the world title against Ivan Drago or something really would be something everybody knows what the real fight was you know being an Iowa guy this whole California experience in Hollywood and all this stuff freaks me the out it it does there's just some I was out here pitching TV shows before the Ultimate Fighter I was pitching an ultimate Ultimate Fighter show to Kevin Riley who was the president of NBC at

143:05the time and john herzfeld who you know mmm right john herzfeld goes look you're gonna have maybe five ten minutes with these people right I had them laughing for an hour and a half and they're like this is awesome I love this show I love this idea and mine was much different than the Ultimate Fighter right it actually made sense the four pillars of MMA and competing in each one and all that sort of stuff right well he called us personally and he goes you know we the board talked about it and the board just he goes I couldn't get it through there they just don't feel mainstream's ready for this type of thing and all that then the Ultimate Fighter came out on Spike and the rest was history but every time I had one show sold two stars the guy that used to be the president of HBO remember him which guy the guy that got in trouble right yeah I can't remember his name now

143:52I remember Bret Rhett know Rex know something all Breck yeah Chris Albrecht Chris Albrecht that's it I had a show sold and then they were gonna co-brand it with Spartacus and then the lead actor from Spartacus got terminal cancer and they couldn't co-brand them together and that deal fell apart then another one that I had sold fell apart because of the collapse in 2008 and I was like dude I can't win anything that business also like if you're an outsider and you're coming in here to try to pitch things there's so many people they already know that they're pitching things right right like you gotta imagine if you're a guy that's a producer or you know an executive rather it's some sort of a network you've got people knocking on your door all day long you're just a quality from certain people yeah or what I want to survive you've seen their work before yeah it's

144:37very hard for an outsider to get in oh dude I finally just went yeah I had so many concepts written on a laptop I'd set up all hours of night writing concepts for shows all that sort of stuff interesting is this thing that you're doing for fun your conspiracy farm that's probably your best way in podcasts are the best way in because you need to build an audience an undeniable audience well and we want to go to you know black sites CIA black sites and and arrest us and drag our ass in there right we want to get in trouble right we want to go to places where words you don't want that we're gonna push say you want that you don't want that I don't okay I get what you're saying but we want to push the envelope right we want to push the envelope we want to we want to expose the real facts behind what's really going on and that would cause some heat I'm sure that we eventually

145:25get a call you know where you need to kind of divert off the path you're on yeah think so Oh without a doubt you looking forward to that problem weren't you starting to do a show like that that did Joe Rogan questions everything but mostly it was on Bigfoot and UFOs so stuff you actually get trouble from aliens right well it was mostly almost all that's the problem and I was much more interested in conspiracy theories before I did that show but in the six months that I did that show and all these different people that I interviewed and all the stuff you saw in the air was just a fraction of the total mass of all the people that I talked to right mostly was mostly these crazy people mostly these people that just have a bad way of looking at reality like they're there they have confirmation bias and the way they look at things they just have this very distorted version of what the truth

146:17is and they also want Bigfoot to be real they want aliens to be real they want the government to be spraying out of planes above us all the time it's all just what we've had shaking that Brennan who was head of the CIA admit to that though at least well they admit to one thing yeah they have looked into weather modification right but the idea that every Southwest flight is smiling not aluminum all this different in the air know for sure they've experimented on using it for warfare they've looked into everything they've looked display the atmosphere over your enemy your enemy and have storms break out on them there's that and also to look you know in Abu Dhabi they make it rain every week they make it rain three times a year yeah guys do it with they just throw money in the air and it rains well like they just figure out a way to cloud seed and their cloud seeding has been around forever

147:10that's real yeah but that's not what you're seeing when you see planes fly overhead and you see those clouds that form behind the planes that is a reaction between the jet engines the condensation in the atmosphere the heat of the jet engine and I was never sold on it for a long time I was never sold on that at all it's ridiculous you know I was never you know and the the 9/11 conspiracies and stuff like that the only thing that I've noticed about that is you can see the detonations going off on building seven when it's never done don't see detonations we saw floors collapsing and the pressure of these floors collapsing causing these windows to right this is just what would happen if something was but I don't subscribe to it is what I'm saying I don't know I don't subscribe to it either I mean who knows what the happened with all the behind the scenes but what we

147:55do know is that a bunch of people capitalized on that which makes it look like in spirit and all the intelligence reports that came out before that happened was that the terrorists planned on using planes as missiles to take down buildings yeah we knew that at least that's where I stopped I leaned much more towards incompetence than I do massive conspiracy bunch of Barney Fife's Keystone Cops yeah yeah that's what I think right but who knows I wanted to talk to you about marathons about ultra marathons like you you got into when did you start getting into this it was a couple years ago John Byrne who is a professor at a college in my hometown and he and his family had taken martial arts from me for years and he one day walked up to me I think it was 2012 or earlier and he goes hey he goes I want to thank you for all the confidence you've given me and he was an

148:43amazing guy a very very smart guy and a great athlete great basketball player the guys now 53 years old I think and never gets hurt he can do anything he wants and he does not get hurt he's just a genetic freak right but he comes to me he goes thank you for giving me the confidence I love the martial arts training but I'm gonna try something new and I said what are you gonna try and he goes this thing called the Leadville 100 and I go what the hell is that he goes well it's a high-altitude 100-mile race through the Colorado Rockies and I go how many days this is supposed to take and he goes all no you do it all at once oh my god you're gonna do a hundred miles without basically stopping he goes yeah he goes about every 10 miles you get new food and fluids and you just keep going I'm awesome go do it man and he went he finished he barely barely made the cutoff which is

149:2830 hours you have to do it right and so I thought this is really cool and it was a couple years ago where he sent me a message and he goes I'm training for Leadville again I go maybe it's a good idea for me to jump in I want to do something extreme and since I quit fighting I couldn't ever find that was just that void in my life right and my health was deteriorating I couldn't figure out how to get back in shape because I was in pain constantly I had asthma all this other stuff I found out that that was gluten I the gluten problem right and I thought before that I thought if somebody said I'm gluten sensitive or I have allergy to gluten I get whatever what is gluten right right but I was running into so many physical problems I started training with these guys and I'd be crippled for two three days I'd be in so much pain that I couldn't do anything and then my buddy

150:15goes and I was getting ready to eat start eating oxycottons that was I mean I could survive on motrin all the pain everything else but I got to the point where I flying I walked five gates in an airport and have to stop and sit down I was in so much pain my arthritis was just horrible I'd be soaked in sweat everything else so I had all these problems and I figured if I train with these guys it'll bring me out of this this point in life and it'll change my life and I'll get back to the you know Pat Miletich of the old lot was falling apart worse because of the intensity of the training so my buddy did blood tests on me he goes you're gonna be dead in three years from a heart attack there's so much inflammation in your body if you don't stop eating gluten I go what the hell is gluten he goes wheat and soy you have to stop eating it or your daddy boys yeah yeah wheat and soy so it's all

151:01about how wait a minute I thought it's all modified grains right soy soy has been modified like black beans have been modified for a certain amount of time your body doesn't digest black bean black beans really like a waste of time to eat so but the the wheat and the soy is what was causing the inflammation along with the sprain that goes on with wheat fields and soy fields it's really bad right yeah so anyway say yeah it's bad bad stuff so anyway he said you'll be dead in three years from a heart attack there's so much inflammation you have asthma you have three forms of arthritis your digestion system your digestive system is destroyed he goes how is your temper been lately I go not real good he goes your brains getting destroyed your thinking process is screwed up because the chemicals that your stomach is given off is affecting the way you think it's your second

151:43stomach or your second brain right he goes so you have to understand that so I quit cold turkey stopped eating took about a week before my arthritis subsided started to go away I went from running three-mile runs and feeling miserable for three days to ten months later I did a 75 mile run in town in ten months though from from not eating that garbage it was it a race the 75 mile no it was actually a training run it was training run with the guys and that we you know they worked me up from you know three-mile run ten-mile run 12 mile 15 18 20 you know drop back down to a ten-mile run on the weekend they'd always do the long runs on the weekends and a lot of times I was doing these runs on no sleep because I'd done a broadcast Friday night get home get home the next day on Saturday have no sleep because you know you can finish late and you got a fly home first thing in the

152:29morning is what I always did write operating on no sleep and then start and we did 30 mile run 35 45 50 and then a 75 mile run along with the stuff training during the week that a lot of it I was doing on the road too and it's just an amazing group it's probably the coolest group of people I've been around and David Clark who is a guy that served as a role model for me just read in his book which is called out there ultra recovery a guy that was three hundred twenty pound alcoholic who changed his life one day and decided to become a badass ultra runner it just being around those people they don't show pain they don't they just don't show pain even when they're in misery it's it's a weird mindset it's it's so much different than MMA where 25 minutes of misery and a exhausting fight is now that I've gone through some of the stuff it's it's a joke it's a complete joke because when

153:25you're out there running 75 miles 50 miles 50 miles in 97 degree heat with the same percentage of humidity on a blacktop country road in Iowa getting scorched went through probably four hours of heatstroke my brain was getting cooked I mean I literally felt like I was I could die at any time and these guys are laughing at me they're laughing they're they had me in a field at Mile 30 farmers yard hosing me down with cold water from the farmers house just to get my body temperature down so I could get going again right just crazy stuff like that they're just hardcore it's it's amazing group of people and I I encourage people to work their way up try and find a running group and try it because it's it's cool how often you do it now I've backed off of late I've been doing more kind of getting back in the grappling a little bit doing a little bit of kickboxing uh grab me

154:15even with your neck I tell people look don't go for the goal I you know and I had to tell the grin and there's a lot of good grapplers at the place I go to summit it's a wrestling and jiu-jitsu facility CrossFit's in there a bunch of other stuff but some of the guys that I used to train are the senior guys down there and they're there's some really technical guys some tenth planet guys actually Joe Laughlin follows follows that system quite a bit and he's is former Special Forces guy and you know I just said to everybody the first few times I went down there I got luck I have no desire to be a world champion again I've been paralyzed twice from the neck down I have no desire to get into friggin brawls with any of you I go I'm here to get back in shape and just grapple and kind of have fun again okay so let's let's understand that first and foremost if you go for crazy

155:01submissions on my neck I'm not gonna like you a whole lot right so so I'm doing a lot of that I'm slowly getting kind of back into the mindset of ramping back up with the running and stuff like that my brother who's 58 who never ran he did Leadville last year was it last year yeah you know that's a guy that never ran and most people take their lifetime to be able to do a marathon he did 50 miles at Leadville missed the cutoff at 50 miles but he's 58 years old and never ran before and just he was in love with it he fell in love with it he's in the mountains you know I already lived my Sports dreams Joe I already won a world title I've done some cool so to me running that when I saw the course and went this this is intimidating this is to look at a mountain and no you got to go over it right at the 40 to 50 mile mark and then 50 to 60 going back is because it's some

155:50scary it's intimidating my brother was totally the opposite mindset he's like this is the coolest I've ever done in my life he doesn't bomb and down that mountain was the coolest thing I've ever done in my life this is amazing and I just want that's the way the minds supposed to work for stuff like this yeah he got it you know they mean yeah well it is a lot of it is how you approach things right how you approach challenges like some people love the idea of something being very difficult like what a struggle I can't believe how tough that was you get out of it you feel exhilarated yeah whereas other people they look at it like oh no I need a couch a beer a sandwich and a good TV show about you know right Severn but I did so I did Leadville a couple years back and John Byrne and I went out two weeks early and I had to leave from Colorado fly back to Providence to do a broadcast

156:37and then fly back he picked me up at the airport when we went back up but while I was with him for the first couple days we went out up Mount Albert which is the tallest mountain in Colorado and I felt the altitude I felt the 814 5 or whatever it was and it was it was painful on the way up and then we got caught on a storm on the top of the mountain a bad storm hail downpour and lightning hitting everywhere all over the mountain we had the bomb down this mountain as fast as we could and I trashed my quads right and we're real close to the actual race at that Bank right it's like a week and a half away and so then I got on a plane flew to Providence and I was panicking I was like this is some serious I'm about to do right and I started sweating I'd never had anxiety attacks before in my life and I'm like what the you thinking dude this is some crazy stuff

157:23and so I we were getting ready to go live and Michael Chappelle looks at me he goes why are you soaked I'm freaking out dude I gotta fly back to Colorado go do this race I'm panicking right and I never thought I'd be afraid of anything but that the course is that intimidating right mm-hmm so Michael goes dude relax it's okay so we did the show everything I got back there and it you know when you're out there in the mountains you start at four o'clock in the morning and these they're just they're hardcore runners man they're hardcore badasses people you'd never if you looked at them on the street you go there's no way that person could run five miles and they're just smiling for honor miles they're just going going you know so Courtney Courtney Doe Walter is right right I had her on she won the Moab 240 by how many hours me she beat the ten hours and 20 miles she beat the

158:13second-place guy that's amazing yeah he's an animal were there people that thought she cheated to do that nope they were everybody knew her animal she she won a race blind she was having some sort of retinal edema so she couldn't see anything but her feet okay so I had to tell her where to go and all that she had a pacer she tripped and fell and cracked her head open she went through the finish line bloody and blind that's the type of stuff and that's one of the toughest people you're ever gonna meet right right if you met her completely unassuming fan and real silly drinks beer and eats nachos not on some kind of crazy diet that's candy right she's real fun to hang out with that's like very easygoing that's like you meet Navy SEALs and you go they're supposed to be tough right right but I watched Navy SEALs fall apart last year when my brother was doing the race letting just fall apart

158:58just really yeah just like well if you're not physically prepared too well you know they didn't I know that some of them did the 50-mile are out there right they did so they were getting ready for it but you know the you get dehydrated at any point or caloric deficit or all these different altitude problems that can come about only other stuff you know it's it's it's it's I'm definitely a mental thing that yes it's it's wild so fighting is the way I look at it the best way I can explain to you is fighting is so easy fighting Harrison yeah I mean in reality I mean I was fighting like when I fought Pele when he was ranked second in the world I was ranked first I didn't train for six weeks for that fight because I was crippled right I was injured low back destroyed all kinds of stuff I had 12 shots as I like hanging in my back to go out and fight and he was the number

159:46two guy in the world at the time and very kill the right time but he couldn't do to hurt me even when I was crippled he fell back for a leg lock on me and I laughed at him and he was like well that's not gonna work so let's get right but he was hanging on my head and I'm throwing uppercuts and body shots and he's plumbing me he ran up my body with knees like that you know just a freak but fighting is that easy it's that simple to me because you're trying to outwit now smarter another human being right right when you're running for 50 miles 75 miles whatever 100 miles you're battling with yourself the entire time yes that's where you get mind right right right that's the scary part about it because you've got to face yourself yeah yeah it's a different thing yeah you're you're and you're in the middle of a fight especially a war you're in the moment you're throwing bombs acting like I'm

160:35just doing it and dealing with it and toughen up you take a minute break drink some water hop right back out again for five minutes it's just a completely different animal right you do you miss the old days of no time limits I had fun back in those days because I could go a hundred miles an hour and gas people out and beat them right right with conditions I enjoyed that I did I did enjoy that but you know it is it is what it is the there were fights in tournaments that would go 45 minutes and just sure you can't cover that up be right you just can't like you fought dan was that a no time 30 min just a 30 minute one round fight yeah that's crazy so it's just it is what it is people people would sit down and watch it live but they're not gonna watch it on TV even though you're gonna get bummed out right it's just not the best thing in terms of entertainment

161:24value yeah also it's you know the rounds the the rules all that sort of stuff that the wages let's get some girls in bikinis cards and yeah you know I talked to John Purdy we had John Peretti on one of my podcast oh yeah how's he doing he's got some health issues you know I think he's I know he's got the MS and some other issues and stuff like that but you know he he wants people to know that he's the guy that did that he did right yeah he wants people to know I'm the guy that friggin created all that stuff yeah well he was the matchmaker at the time when I first started working for the UFC in 97 okay and so it has been since 97 you were involved yeah I did UFC 12 that's awesome okay yeah that was the and I came in at 16 so you've been around longer than me that's awesome yeah I remember your debut I remember when I was um I remember Mikey Burnett how's he doing

162:16um he's doing I think okay I know he's got shot right yeah no robbery mmm-hmm yeah it was a good guy tough I remember and he fought eugenio today oh and wrecked him wrecked him yeah and everybody thought that he was the next congenial was a psychopath that friggin went after hens own was kicking hens OHS ass and he shut the power down in the building so hens old wouldn't lose ass that was in Brazil right that was craziness back then yeah but Burnett was Mikey Burnett was a guy who was a Greco national champ benched 405 squatted 405 stronger than toughest yeah yeah yeah the old days mm-hmm yeah man it's been so long it's really interesting when you stop to think about it how many thousands of flights have you called I've seen way too many people get up I know that I'm real numb to watch it people get beat up that's Mike and that's the thing that's too I would say as my coaching career

163:09progressed as I got older you know when you're young and you're full of testosterone in your psychopathy and your coaching it's just AHA let's go do this ha right you know and as I got older and mellowed out I mean I had to lay down on the floor of the locker room before the first hues trig fight because I knew trig was a dangerous dude just a tough son of a and a good wrestler right and I was really nervous for that fight I had to lay on my back and just decompress for 30 minutes before that night just to go out and just coach with it you know with a calm mind yeah you know and you know when he was fought Carlos Newton after Carlos took the title from me and Carlos comes out and we were infuriated because he's walking out with two Playboy Bunnies and you know acting and it was you know it's a show right it was one that big ramp yeah existed right and so he was a stand-in

163:58there and I was all pumped up I was like Matt you know we had to get Matt off a tractor on the farm to come and fight him right because my automatic rematch clause got they renig Don that and said your choice either Mack and fighting or somebody from another camp but if Matt or somebody from another if somebody from another camp fights them you got the winner no matter what but if Matt fights Amon loses you can you can rematch Carlos but if mat wins obviously that's kind of tough because we're buddies right right so Matt's standing inside the cage and I'm pumped I'm absolutely pumped I go you gotta smash the scotch screaming they smash him and Matt turns around he goes it's gonna be okay dude all right because we got this dude we got this I was like I all right that was a crazy wind that's when he slammed him with a triangle yeah yeah don't the entire crowd their mouths

164:45were hanging open they'd never seen anything like that Nolan was he kind of half out he was a triangle he was out with the trial and he knew he was going out and slammed him and then went out here's the thing that's right he jumped up and said I won Matt no Matt sits up like this and he's kind of looking around and I dove over the cage and my let my legs catch on one side so that that could barely touch Matt's head with my hand and I scraped his hair really fast I'm like get up get up get up get up I knew he was out right so get up get up and he stands up he goes what happened and Jeremy goes you just one of these like crazy that was cool that was a cool fight yeah very intense yeah that was very intense Carlos Newton was one of the most technical jujitsu guys oh yeah it was very it was an amazing athletic dude yeah yeah one of the best friends I've ever seen to this day was he and

165:35Dan Henderson oh yeah that was an insane fight yeah those were great fight that was 97 resident 97 and also bleep somewhere in that area yeah that was one of my early days I remember when Chuck Liddell made his UFC debut I think he fought noe Hernandez and a pretty sure he's wearing wrestling shoes noe Hernandez trained with me for that fight and no ya know he got hurt before that fight I can't remember what he injured but no he couldn't train hard for that fight so he wasn't in great shape but he was knocking the out of Chuck until he ran out of gas I mean he was boxing Chuck's ears off no no that fight Peretti came to Chuck and told them if you want to keep working and keep fighting for the UFC do not take this guy down oh really yeah cuz he found out that Chuck was a wrestler ah wow those are the dirty days that was a Gary shot that Gary Shaw tellin Petrocelli and Shambo

166:23type stuff touches only had to stand up with Kimbo because he would play shamrock yeah I forgot about that guy one of the greatest interviews ever was Dana White after that number when he looks at the camera and he goes you can't do that it's booked in Italy that's illegal yeah it's illegal that was the dumbest matchup too when I there's a video of me in the green room of the punch line in Atlanta Georgia I had gotten off stage and I was waiting to see Ken Shamrock fight King Kimbo okay and I was like what a fight this is gonna be I get off stage and they say Oh Ken Shamrock got hurt warming up and Kimbo is now fighting Seth Petrocelli and I go oh this is a terrible idea out and I said it and I said like to the camera it's like the craziest thing ever I go Seth Passage know he's gonna him up right I'm like this is what assuming he's gonna take him down to submitting

167:14any I thought he was gonna ko on the jaw Seth was way better striker I thought so he's just gonna take him down I thought Seth is a karate striker look at legit seasoned black belt right and and and he could submit guys but he's just uh he was on another level as a mixed martial artist I was like kimbos so here's me while this is happening to go to the beginning although it's where it said the beginning there's a last-minute replacement I gotta take separate set pressures always gonna him up if I never see this so it happens in the green mode and literally the fight is six seconds long you look older there was the beard that full beard back then right that was after Evan died died we all grew beards yeah that was a bad deal man sad very bad yeah that guy was well I think he rolled out there into the desert it was on a mission I think might have you know I mean maybe when he was

168:32out there he decided to go that way or maybe he just really did get lost and couldn't find his water but that's one of the hottest places on earth yeah I mean he gets to the 130s and stuff out there yeah it's just yeah that was a bummer it was a bummer he was a great guy he was an interesting guy too you know he was a guy that really wasn't into money really what I mean he was into the journey and and difficult quiet he probably would have loved ultrarunning yeah absolutely and he fought down what was the show in Texas that they were doing back then because he cut his teeth in that circuit down there in Texas I can't remember what shows those who remember he fought Texas Fighting Championship or something he was a tough man he fought Dave Terrell oh yeah I mean Dave Terrell had him in a guillotine he wouldn't tap and then he start smashing them and that's how you wondered well was

169:14talented yeh was but he was mentally like he would fall apart right well he did in that fight or at least he gassed out and what something happened in that fight but yeah that was the word is that his talent never matched up to his performances yeah and as a jiu-jitsu player though he was very very successful like I I saw him fighting Abu Dhabi who's a phenom man he was phenomenal and to this day produces some of the best black belts who's the best grappler on the planet now you think that's a good question it's hard to tell I mean it's probably Donna hers guys yeah it's it's probably Gordon Ryan or maybe Gary tonin or one of those guys but then there's a lot of really high-level jujitsu guys see the thing is these no one is caught up to Donna hers leg game like there's a few guys there's craig jones out of australia that's on a real high level there's no there's a

170:06bunch of guys that are they're closing in but it seems like what Danaher is doing and i mean Danaher is such a wizard right he's such a genius in his application of his mind you know cuz Danaher severely crippled he's got a one fake hip and they're gonna they're gonna replace one of his knees right and he hurt his knee a long time ago from a rugby accident and they his knee was so loose and up that they shortened his tendons to and stitched him back together again but they shortened him too much huh and he never could fully extend his leg okay and he was up from then on out and then it's caused a defect in his hip okay because worn out yeah wore out his hip so he's severely injured but his mind is a genius he's very very very intelligent guy superior intellect and his the way he's applied like that thought process to jujitsu is just incredibly unique and

171:03so those guys Eddie Cummings Nicky Ryan Gordon Ryan like this this the Danaher death squad what they call right I have to think that at least in terms of accomplishments I mean that guy's submitted cyborg Ricardo Abreu I mean the easy if you watched that fight right I had John Danaher on the podcast break down what he did to cyborg cyborgs a multiple time world champion yeah and and Gordon Ryan went right through him and Gordon Ryan's 22 years old yeah I think somewhere around there I just look at I look at you know great grapplers throughout history from back the early Gracie's you know the pharma burns all these scary dudes and stuff and as it moves forward in time and just watching guys how they it's almost like a constant cyclical there's a cycle there of you you learn how to defend stuff you hit stuff people don't have the defendant you move on and

171:53it's this constant cycle of it and then new coming out and creative stuff and I just watch it evolve and go man I just I wish I could stay young forever just have fun you know with your body yeah it's it's an unfortunate thing that your mind it absorbs all these techniques and you understand how to compete better but your body just gives out right and that's the thing with MMA especially I think it's a race to amass enough knowledge to win the title before the body gives out right right it just is well that's why TRT was so interesting you know like the TR TV tour days because you had Vitor choose to the tits and all that experience I mean Vitor made his UFC debut back when I called my first fight in when I was a post fight interview err rather right and UFC 12 that was his debut at 19 years of age yeah so here you have him at 37 juiced out of his mind

172:43with muscles on his eyebrows I mean he was so jacked when he fought Rockhold Lee right this Bing I mean clearly he was not just taking testosterone replacement therapy he was juiced up I mean he was way above normal levels I remember UFC Brazil I was fighting Wanderlei and Vitor were fighting each other yeah right and you knew that was a collision yeah I was too scary dudes VTOL was shoes for that fight but here's the crazy thing I'm in my locker room I'm getting ready to fight and one of Vito's trainers comes in Vitor sent them to get me to come give him a pep talk whoa he's sitting that was the fight when he had hid for like three days because he was terrified fandant Lee was so scary he was having he was having just this I think a mental breakdown yeah an anxiety attack about fight and veto or about fighting Wanderlei Silva so he's in his locker

173:39room and he's sitting in the corner he's like with his eyes big he's scared to death and I walked in there and I'm like dude we're fighting for world titles doing what is wrong with you let's go let's rock it Kelly's guys right right got him all pumped up he's like alright well he got beaten down by Randy before that right that fight took a lot out of him he wasn't the same guy for a long time after that for yeah the most brutal fight I've ever seen in my life that was ah Madiba tes and Don Frye I remember that in Cobo Arena in Detroit a to big it was way too strong horrifying because mommy had shot on him and he's walking his feet down fries walking his feet up the cage and drop a knee straight down on back Amory's head yeah those were legal yeah and the entire crowd is roaring Cobo arenas pack they're going nuts and all you can hear over the top of everything is is his

174:33omurice girlfriend screaming bloody murder like like someone was being slaughtered in front of her which they were right yeah and then you've got this Volvo Alva's who's an encyclopedia of Brazilian Jujitsu amazing guy and Alain Goa's and Alain go as I had been up there all week to help Omri get ready for the fight right and Alain Gois shows up the day of the fight the night of the fight walks into the locker room and goes what's your name then I go Pat and he goes here's a camera take pictures that's the way Alan treated me when we first met right so I'm watching I Marie get mauled just completely slaughtered and these guys won't throw in the towel and I'm going you gotta throw in like yeah this is stupid he's stupid and John had stopped the fight McCarthy pull him over and you go do you want to continue all I'm Renu in English was more more he's like alright

175:29we're going again and he gets slaughtered some more pulling back off more MORE sandy back out and finally John's like this is we're gonna have a fatality Jesus so that was horrifying fight that was the most brutal fight I've ever seen yeah there's been a few of those over the years it's been a few of those but listen Pat we just did 3 hours 3 hours plus all the time flies by man and I like we finally did this I'm surprised my attention span lasted the here attention spans on point man that's all that ultra marathon runner right right we got to do this again man I look and please everybody check out the conspiracy farm is it on iTunes on everything yeah and if they go to chemical free body calm you would love that stuff ok chemical free body calm it's all vegan products sprouted greens all kinda mean the guys that don't your company or some good friend of mine Tim

176:17James who saving people's lives from cancer to all kinds of he is healing people veterans with all kinds of open wounds from chemical stuff and are you saving Lee doing Lion fight commentary lion fight we no longer cover them we cover CES CES and LFA let go yeah you're in town for that right what is the the event isn't on access access TV Friday night yeah Mark Cuban's Network we're gonna have a blast gonna be great fights title fights there's there's some some great fights beautiful all right Pat Miletich ladies and gentlemen thank you brother 3 man it was awesome