Duncan Trussell

00:02Oh I put it in airplane mode. Okay, so God is dead. He is. No, he is. Why did you say that? What about a bunch of people that had a birthday cake for God? They're like, "Well, what the do I do with this now?" And it's infinity candles. Do you know how badass Nichi felt when he said that for the first time where he was like, "God is dead." When it meant something like now you say it and people are like, "Whatever, who cares?" Yeah. No But like back back then it was like a it was like a nuclear bomb going off the declaration. God is dead. Do you not understand? He's dead. When did Ni write that? I don't know, man. I don't actually, you know, I have no idea. It must have been the 1900s or so. I don't know when he was Nichi was around. He's in he's in my Carl Young pile where I'm always like one day I'm going to really get into his work. Oh man, he's a he's good cuz he gets into your head

00:59man because he like Carl Young will get in your head but it's more subtle whereas like Nichi like you're reading you ever read any Philip K. Dick. Yes. So you know how like you're getting on top of 1882. Wow. With Philip K. Dick he was kind of crazy but he was a genius. So when you read his his fiction, it's like you stop reading it and you feel a little crazy for a second because something about the way he's writing just isn't normal. There's something off, man. Nichi, it's the same way. It's like when you stop reading him, you're going to like spend the next few days like Or like Burrows. Yeah, same same thing. Outsider artist kind of like Yeah. I remember reading some of Burrow's stuff and thinking like I might get high just reading this. Yeah. You know, like like Naked Lunch. That was him, right? Wasn't that Yeah. Terrence McKenna. The same thing. Oh, yeah. You

01:52just are tripping when you start reading his writing. Like, you just start tripping. God, I wish I could write like that, man. You could. How dare you? Well, I mean, you would have to spend a lot of time writing every day. That's all it is. That's the only thing that's holding you back is the amount of time that you would have to spend writing. But I think you would you would love it. You would enjoy it. You know, he's uh McKenna had some fascinating books. food of the gods. H he had some crazy theories that he pitched that I've seen scientists like about especially the doubling of the human brain size one. That was a really fascinating theory that he had that he he connected it. See, I'm not sure if he was right in terms of the climatological data, but his contention for those of you aware of it was that monkeys had come down from the trees and they experimented with new

02:41food sources and they started flipping over cow patties to get to bugs cuz that's what they do. And along the line, they discovered psilocybin mushrooms. Yeah. And he thinks that the grasslands um the rainforest becoming grasslands, the change in climate led to these chimps, these monkeys, whatever our our ancestors were, led to them becoming more experimental. And that that it could be coincided with a bunch of different things that they know about mushrooms or it could be uh sort of confirmed with a bunch of different things. One one with that mushrooms increase visual acuity. Yeah. And they shown this like in actual actual tests with real scientists who were experimenting with it. Who was the other guy? There was one German guy. A straight guy too that experimented with this. God damn it. Trying to remember his name. But he he had a really funny

03:31line. What do you mean the straight guy? Straight guy meaning he wasn't a drug guy. He wasn't a drug culture guy. I don't mean straight like homosexual, heterosexual. I mean like uh he wasn't like Timothy Liry or McKenna or you know any of these guys who are like clear proponents of psychedelics. He was just um a researcher and they had found out that in low doses of psilocybin like say if you changed an angle if you had two parallel lines and you made one just varied it ever so slightly with a psilocybin they could tell when the angle was ever so slightly varied quicker than they could naturally. Yeah. I I I can remember. Yeah. It's uh visual acu acuity in the per in the periphery, right? So, it's like expanding your peripheral vision by a tiny tiny little bit. Yeah. I don't even know if the test pertained to periphery only. It might have been peripherally as

04:25well because I do remember that one specific task, that one specific thing where they were trying to figure out um how quickly you could recognize when an angle's changed and you could do it quicker when you were high. That's crazy. Yeah. So there's that and then there's the horniness. Mushrooms are known to make people horny. So that happens. Yes, they are known for that. The creativity aspect of it. There's that, you know, like the the tapping into alternative ways of thinking and that would lead to a lot of innovation. And and it's also possible that a that it's really possible that psilocybin in some ways is a nutrient. I mean, it's also it's an intoxicant for sure. It's on a hallucinogenic, whatever that means. But it it might be a nutrient, too. It's it's entirely possible that this increase in visual acuity and this uh this horniness that it gives you and

05:16this um connection to nature and this uh intense creativity like you're tapping into a river of ideas and like scooping out buckets of them. Yeah. Like all that might also it it almost it might be something that when you're consuming it's actually beneficial to the body or beneficial to your brain. if it's having all those crazy positive effects on the brain, it might have like a beneficial long-term effect on the brain. And they've been doing these studies on neurons on repairing neurons and psilocybin and psilocybin's role in repairing um brain disease or brain brain issues, brain trauma, might not have been neurons. See if you can find that. um the most recent studies with uh psilocybin uh and brain damage. They think it might in some ways be able to repair brain damage. Well, if that's the case, what if these monkeys were just eating them all the time? Yeah. And their brains

06:08just grew. I mean, what if McKenna was right? Well, yeah. I mean, I I think I think it is pretty safe a safe bet that uh monkeys or what I mean monkey isn't the right word. Protoominids, right? who are wandering the planes are going to like if we're omnivores, we're definitely going to be eating whatever uh whatever we can find that gives us nutrition that has nutritional value. Especially if you're out on a hunt, you're hungry. The thing you're hunting, food is growing out of its Yeah. Well, I don't even think they were hunting then. I don't think they could hunt something that big. I don't think they had weapons. What do you mean? I think what they were doing was they were gathering. They were eating a lot of bugs. We were insectovores. I thought his idea was that the there's climate change and so we start moving into the grasslands and then yeah, we're hunting boine animals.

07:01We're like no, I don't think that was the contention. I think the contention was flipping over um the cow patties. I thought it was that because the thing that you're hunting is going to be things that grow mushrooms. No, I don't think so. I think it was way later when they started doing that. Um, one of the things, here's, uh, the study that Jamie pulled up. It says, "Silocybin mushrooms stimulate the growth of brain cells. Psychedelic mushrooms have already had a reputation for helping people open their minds and broaden their perspectives in the world. Some have shown an ability to combat mental disorders like depression, anxiety, and now research is showing that magic mushrooms can actually help physically rebuild a damaged brain." Well, if that's the case, if it's the case that it can physically help rebuild a damaged brain, maybe over long-term consumption, it can actually make a

07:50brain grow. I think I'm I'm almost positive that McKenna's idea was not that they were hunting these things, but they were flipping over cow patties looking for beetles and grubs and worms and stuff cuz I think we're talking about like really small ancient homminids. I don't think we really hunted until we figured out tools or I mean not like large scale like large animal type hunting. So that was that I think that was way later than the human brain size growing. Like when they when they developed like the adaladdle you ever seen someone use that? No. It's the precursor to uh the bow and arrow. Before the bow and arrow, they figured out a thing called an adeladdle. Yeah. It's crazy. It's uh it's got a handle on it and you put a spear in it and you launch the spear with a handle like almost like it's a crazy lacrosse ball. That's crazy. See it there? That's what

08:36it looks like. Um, there's guys that make them and there's videos, Jamie. You can see a guy that made his own and used it. There's a bunch of them actually. But, uh, you know, people take those things and they they throw them at targets and they're not very accurate. I mean, they're okay accurate in comparison to like I guess if you were, you know, you weren't skilled and you tried to hit it with a rock. I mean, it's probably more accurate than that. And if you could sneak up on an animal, you could probably get some good penetration. And they probably got really good at it eventually, but that was the first of uh many weapons that could launch things through the air that they figured out. Have you seen that um that weird ritual that chimpanzees are doing where they throw rocks at a tree? Have you seen that? Yeah. What is that? Well, they don't know. It just is

09:26like it's the idea that like they're developing their own weird culture, their own superstition or some something that they just feel like something they're doing something. I mean, we don't understand what it is, but like it's a thing where you throwing rocks at trees and then there's all these rocks that are kind of like laying around certain trees cuz chimps have decided to just start lobbing rocks at them and they're saying, "Is this like some emerging chimpanzee religion or culture?" Like, whoa. Yeah, it's very weird, man. Like, what what are they do? What are they doing? Why do you know that they have it's sort of been agreed upon by uh a lot of the people that study these animals that they're entering into the stone age, right? Like this is this is the actual like when they're talking about chimpanzees and they're looking at their growth and their learning, they're

10:18thinking that they're in a new place now. They're thinking they're starting to use tools. They're starting to use stones and other great apes are using tools as well. Like we knew that they would get um not we like you and I are out there doing research as we predicted. As we predicted, Duncan, they you know, we always knew they use sticks to get like termites and stuff, but now um they're figuring out a way to do all kinds of crazy Have you ever seen the one orangutan that figured out how to spearfish? Yeah, I did see that picture of him hanging over the river with a spear in his hand. It's insane. What to me what's really particularly interesting is that as as our society and our species is moving into some new era as we're moving into some god knows what the it is. These guys are too. It's like they're moving for them that what that's state-of-the-art. That's some

11:08high that's you're looking at goddamn uh Elon Musk right there. That's the Elon Musk of orangutans right there. Like what the Look at him. He's like using that thing to get fish. He's a genius. That's a genius. Like in the same way that like we have people sending things to Mars. But it's funny that the two are coinciding. Like it's funny that it appears now. I don't know how long this has been going on, but this like it seems like this uh sort of trickle in of stories of monkeys suddenly doing doing things like this. It could be related to just more people researching and getting more data that's always been there. Who knows? Is that a different one, Jamie, or the same chimp? The same orangutan. It's the same guy. Oh, there's a whole video of him doing it. Oh, Funny orangutang fishing. Wow. Haha. It's just funny. Your leap forward in evolutionary history. It's funny to us.

12:06You, you hairy thing. So, we're looking at him sitting there hanging on this rock looking over at this little puddle that they have fish in. Yeah, it's obviously set up. So, I think they probably like taught him how to do this. He's not fishing in the wild. He's like, it's almost like he's getting groceries. Seems like a very small little uh like a puddle of with fish in it, you know, like they just taught him how to do it. They're kind of cheating. Yeah, that's cheating. The other orangutan was doing it hanging over an a flowing river. Like, he was he was really figuring it out as he was going along. Yeah. What's this guy doing? And he's like picking at ropes. Yeah. I mean, this is a puddle, right? Yeah. It seems like this is something that zoo or something. Yeah. Right. It seems like something they did for science. Yeah. Like they figured out a way to teach him how to stab those fish.

12:59Like if you just teach them that that's where the fish are and you get it with a stick, that's not as impressive. That's like you could teach a dog to do that. Well, I mean I think I've seen birds I think it's birds that use that. There's some video of a bird like putting bait down and then catching something with it. Like other creatures, you know, use bait to fish. Like there are other species that do it. I've seen that, too. Yeah, I've seen birds do it. Um, don't uh orcas do it, too. Haven't orcas done it? I don't know if they I didn't know they use bait. Yeah. Why do I feel like orcas has have done it, too? Yeah. There you go. Look at that smart guy. Look at that. Yeah. It's really interesting, right? Yeah. He just sits there and waits. He waits for the fish to come near the bread. He's like baiting. Like, how did he figure it out? It's Did Did he see

13:48something do it or did he like innovate this himself? Who taught real good question? Who taught him that? And this isn't even like one of the most clever birds, right? Like ravens. Ravens are the most clever. Yeah. He's got to get his bread. It goes too far away. See, it gets away and he's like, "No, Nobody rides for free. Bringing my bread back. Let me keep it right there. Right. They they tried to move away with it. Yeah. It got too far away. He's like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, No, Stay right here." Have you you've seen, I'm sure, that look at that. Just snatched that fish. That fish is like, "What in the just happened?" The thing about it is it snatched it up. And here's the thing. That bird is not that much bigger than that fish, right? And it did it like it was nothing. That's how creepy birds are. Look, he snacked them and just walked away with it like no big deal.

14:39It's like you having like a small puppy in your hands. That's how he walked away with it. I mean, bigger than a puppy. Like that thing's bigger than his head. That's That's like a fullsize dog. Oh, yeah. For sure. But I'm saying like the way he held it was the way you would hold a puppy. Like you'd have no problem walking with a puppy. But that thing is, you know, probably 25% of its body weight. Like he's mostly feathers, right? Take away all of his feathers. That fish might be at at the very least might be like, you know, 15% of its body weight. Yeah. Have you ever heard the idea of like, you know, like we smack a an ant or something, you smash an ant and that ant has no no idea what there's no way that ant could possibly comprehend what has happened to it. Like when or when that, you know, you have a line of ants going into your sink or whatever, right? that line of ants, they

15:32can't comprehend what you are. Like you walk by the line of ants, they have some instinct maybe to run away from you. A lot of times they don't even run away from you. You turn the sink on, kill like 30 of them in a second, but they don't they can't they're whatever way they used to think, they can't process it, right? So death to that ant, it it's going to be processing its extinction in some way that we can't even understand, right? So there's this idea My friend was telling me that in the same way when a human dies, what we process is like, oh yeah, he got in a car accident, man, what really happened was some kind of like hyperdimensional event that we can only see one tiny piece of that looks like a car accident in our the way our minds process the thing being wiped off the face of this dimension is by like, oh, car wreck, car wreck. But really, there's like all these other levels

16:29involved. So, it's like maybe some hyperdimensional entity just squashed your friend. And the way it manifested is like, "Oh, a car wreck. It was a car wreck." But really, no. That's just the way our brains process that event from where we're at currently in the uh in our ability to like comprehend reality. People listen to this going, "Does that mean I can text and drive?" Texting and driving is easy. It's fine. No, that's that's what they when they see you doing that, they smash you, you know. Maybe it's just an accident. What? Maybe death. No, maybe the accidents are just accidents. Maybe it's not a hyperdimensional being put squish down on you. I don't know, man. It looks like things are they're not like that, man. Uh but we don't I mean, really, we uh we don't know. We we don't know. But that the same way these chimps are like doing these things that

17:19to us seem like pretty cute really like like cute in the same way like you know there's this idea that we're going to sort of god I wish I could remember who explained this. It's like okay human existence up until the point of flight was ter was completely based on like getting like you would climb a mountain and then you could see the ground like you're from an airplane. But that's pretty much it. climb up a tree. I guess you get some altitude. You can see this whole new perspective on what things look like from a high place, but you certainly couldn't get the perspective of flying through the air and looking down at all this stuff that formerly in front of you is like looming over you. It's like when I uh you know, I have two little dogs, adorable, adorable little babies, but you pick them up and like for you it's no big deal, but for that dog it's seeing what's on top of the

18:10counters, man. It's like doesn't see that usually. It's looking up at everything. So, it transforms its reality a little bit. So, flight transformed human reality in this intense way. And now the satellites floating around our planet have transformed it even more cuz we see, oh yeah, we're on a planet. We're like, it's a ball that we're floating around or a flat Earth or whatever. But but uh but the uh so in the same way the next the next sort of liftoff is to somehow rise above the time space continuum so that time itself becomes an object instead of a thing that we're stuck inside of. That's like the next big liftoff and that they're already things that are see time as an object instead of as a river that we're currently being rolled around in. And for them, we look totally different. So that's like the next that's what like maybe McKenna was talking about with the

19:07idea of the time machine or the singularity or whatever is that like once we figure that out. I know there's never going to be a time machine. I know it's insane, but the theoretically it's possible. You know, people do say it it could be possible. Like there's no necessarily there is no reason for us to be stuck in the current way that we are. At least that's from the uh documentary I saw when I was super stone four years ago. Like they were saying you could use like the power of a star or something to Yeah. I'm trying to remember who what German mathematician. There was like a German mathematician that theorized about the the time machine and that a time machine would have to be I want to say the machine would have to be like as big as a solar system you have to be spinning at the speed of light. You transverse this axis or something like that. That's

19:59it. Yeah. Something like that. Insane. But it's like it's not I mean obviously for where we're at right now this isn't a feasible option. But if it's possible and we exist in an infinite universe, then why wouldn't things have potentially figured out a way to to get beyond the time space continuum? So like, you know, we're looking for aliens inside of time and space or, you know, but maybe there's like the thing we should be that we're looking for. We don't even have the technology to scan outside of past, present, and future cuz that's what we're in right now. These things are like way outside of our understanding of what um of what this even is. We can't even see them. Like the ants can't see us. Like we can't even see them. We couldn't talk to them. An ant can't talk to you. You know, I saved a bee from my swimming pool and I swear to God it seemed like

20:48it was thanking me. Like I I pulled it out. How high were you? 1 to 10. How when am I not hot is the question. But I pulled the I pulled the uh I pulled the bumblebee out and I put it down. I was like watching it. It's really cool, you know? It like it like dried itself off. It went through this whole thing. It's like watching a dog dry itself off and then I and then it did this like cool little like I swear it was like a little dance in front of me. Like this weird little cool little bobbing dance thing and then flew away. I'm like did that bee just like thank me or like was that like some form of attempting to communicate with me? I mean, bees certainly communicate with each other. There is communication among insects, and I don't know if they're aware that we exist, but if they talk to each other, isn't it possible they might try to talk to us? Did I ever tell you about

21:37the uh the time on Fear Factor where the bees communicated with local bees? Did I tell you that? I didn't tell you that. No. This is a fascinating uh moment because there was a guy who was a beekeeper and what he was doing is he was uh it was at the Sage Brush Sage Brush Ranch. No, I forget the name of the ranch, but it just burnt down in Santa Clarita. It's this big ranch. They used to film TV shows out there. Um, they put these people they put them they attached them to like this uh this rope and then uh they made them stand like connected to this pole and they covered them with bees like covered them from head to toe with bees and they had to stand there for a certain amount of time and some people didn't get stung at all. It's really interesting like this guy really knew some people got stung. I got stung just being around them. But this guy really knew how to take care of

22:25these bees. It's really like I was covered in bees at one point in time. And you just stay calm and he eventually blows them off you with smoke and Anyway, while they're doing this, he's got his own he's a beekeeper, so he's got his own hive. This local group of bees came over and they met in the sky above us and all of his bees went up to talk to all those bees and he said, "We got to get out of here. we have to stand back and let them work this out. We have to stop filming. We stand back and let this work us work this out. So, it was me and uh my friend Daviditz, who was uh the producer of show. We're looking at each other like, "They're going to talk it out." Like, "What the fuck?" And we're sitting there watching these bees above us, just getting together, and they were literally trying to sort out who these new bees were, what their plans were. How'd you get on Fear

23:13Factor, man? Can you get me on that show? Wait, what did you SAG. Are you in SAG? Do you That's crazy, dude. That's crazy. Yeah, it was really interesting. And it lasted for about a half an hour if I remember correctly. They talked it out for a half an hour and then the other bees went their separate way. And then everybody figured out, everybody knew where everybody belonged, right? Like those tiny little itsybitsy pin head brains had decided these are not their friends. These are their friends. This is where they belong. They're in this traveling hive that for some reason is in the middle of Santa Clarita right now. Yeah, it's nuts. I mean, all the levels of communication happening around us at any given moment are it's astounding. We can't deal with it. Like, it's just too much to handle. So, we sort of get focused on our own little lives as human beings or whatever. But

24:03man. There's a lot more going on. I mean, just that Yeah. You know that if that's happening with bees, there's then it's probably happening with everything. And so then we're in this like and we talk about this a lot, but that means we really are in a matrix of intelligence and we've just decided to focus on this one the way that we're doing it right now, you know, which is a pretty uh it's sad in a weird way because we do you do cut off you cut yourself out of a whole other uh community. That's one of the things I like about like the Native American mythology is that they uh you know it seems like they had less of a distinction between humans and animals. It was like these are our brothers too. I'm I'm confused of what you're saying by you're cutting yourself out of a community. Like what do you mean? Like so it's like okay like let's just take it from the human level. Okay. You a lot

24:55of people they don't even mean to be but they're snobs, right? So they'll see human snobs, right? So a human snob is exclusive, right? So they have this exclusive relationship with the world where they allow into their periphery or in their their circle of friends. I'm letting you into my circle of friends still have this like tight circle of friends and then other people based on whatever their particular metric is for determining who they want around them. You know, snobs are the ones who are who happen, you know, those people who happen to only be friends with successful people. It's like they're only friends with like like celebrities and they're only f like weird that a weird coincidence. How did that happen? Holy I don't understand how that happened, you know? So there's that which is like for them they want to interact into in this particular like part of the societal

25:45ecosystem which means they're excluding excluding excluding excluding all these other people. Right. Right. And so the moment you stop or you you start experimenting with not excluding people as much as you can, this doesn't mean you let annoying people around or people who have their don't have your your the good intentions with you around or whatever. You sound like you're giving advice to stuck up Hollywood elites. No, I'm giving advice just not it's not just in Hollywood. It's like it's a the elites in general. There's actually some book I heard about I didn't read it. It's a really cool idea though which is like the Galapagos Islands. Here we have these beings that have evolved in a certain way because they're completely separated from everything else. It's fascinating to see. So in the same way there's a kind of economic galapagos that happens with wealthy people which

26:33is that they only get around each other and so they start mating within their own circles and they start exchanging only information that wealthy people have. And so this creates a kind of hybrid, a weird new form of human being, which is the elite wealthy class. Not a new idea. The kings and queens would only like within bloodlines and stuff. I It's an intentional form of like wealth eugenics or something. it. So, uh, but anyway, what ends up happening when you're doing that is, uh, you end up cutting off all these other forms of information that come in and then also you start living according to a pretty ridiculous idea, which is that all these other people, whatever they're doing, whoever they are, whatever it is, you know, that's just not really worth it. Like, what does that person really have to tell me that I need to hear? You know, is that what

27:26it is? Or is it that they feel like they can get along with those other people because the other people are going to understand them? Cuz people do find like-minded groups of people and hang out together. And if you're like some super wealthy Rothschild guy and you become friends with some weirdo painter dude, I mean, how much do you guys have in common? It does. You have so much in common. So much. yeah, you do, man. You have the human condition. You have the gravity. You're both dealing with a gravitational field. You're both in a body that's goddamn melting down with the progression of time. You're uh you're probably going to have to both of you are going to have to bury your mom. You're going to have to bury your dad. You're both there's so many. Sure. There's a lot of things you have in common, but they would have to completely open their mind up to accept

28:09all these things. And so you have to change the way a person thinks and you have to change in essence who they are, right? And some people just don't have any desire to do that. Well, there's the problem. And what's even worse is when that is when that kind of idea is the that is like encouraged. When that's like looked at as like, oh, this is just a totally normal way to be. Yeah. Country club up town girl. I bet you never had a back street. Yeah, that man. It's like it's like so that exclusivity even uh from a human perspective cuts you off to all these a lot of data. Admittedly, some of that data is probably going to suck, but a lot of the data is going to be really good information that can make your life better. Stuff's going to come to you that you would never expect when you stop being ex when you reduce your exclusivity. So, in that same way, humans as a species are exclusive,

29:09right? We are we place ourselves as the top of the food chain human beings and underneath us is all this all the this incredible biomass filled with all these other forms of life that we have managed many people have managed to reduce to being some kind of meat machines or vegetable or vegetable. Exactly. Or plant life or whatever it is. It's all life. It's all life. and and and anytime you start talking about like I I'm not positive about this, but I feel like I can communicate with this plant in some way. Like when I'm watering my plants, I swear to God, man, some little piece of me is like I think they know I'm watering them. Like I think there's an awareness here. I don't know if it's real either, but it does feel interesting. I've been in grow rooms before. There you go. And grow rooms are like it's like you walked into a a a room full of happy aliens. Yeah. It's

30:01really what it's like. It's like, "Hi." Like, "Hey, how you guys doing?" Like, it really feels like you're saying hi to all these plants. That's it, man. It might be 100% It might be 100% in my imagination. I might have concocted it out of thin air, but going back to what you were saying earlier about ants and the system that ants live under in bees, how these bees can communicate with each other through pherommones and some other way. I mean, I don't know exactly how they're sorting out who's who and which which clan belongs in what part of the woods or, you know, who the knows. But the thing that we know about human beings is that there are signals that are around us constantly that we can't detect. Wi-Fi and radio and television and satellite, all that stuff is broadcasting around us through the air around us constantly and we can't detect it. And we also know that all throughout

30:56nature there's animals that are blind. There's animals that can't see. There's worms. There's all sorts of things that have no idea you're there. No idea that you're watching television. And there's no no idea that you're about to get in your car. They don't even know what the a car is cuz they don't have the senses to detect it. Why would we assume that we hit the bonanza with the senses and we've got it all down? It's ridiculous, right? It's ridiculous. There's probably like I mean I don't know what those quantum physicist guys are up to. I think didn't they say there was they were up to like they believe there's more than 30 different dimensions now. They used to think it was 11 and now there's some schools of thought that it's like 30 dimensions. Who the knows? It could be infinite. But the point is the these could be worlds that are in our in our midst just in a

31:42non-physical sense. The same way ideas are non-physical. The same way imagination is non-physical. the same way like you know c certain forms of communication you're just saying something to someone right I'm looking at you I'm telling you I love you and you're my friend it's a non-physical thing but it gives you a physical reaction like oh thanks man I love you too I'm glad we're friends that that's some sort of weird non-physical energy exchange right it's not just as simple as you know oh two people showing affection for each other two friends showing each other love there's something else going on too that's Yeah, there's a there's an energy exchange. There's both people get happy. When I tell someone I love them, I get happy, too. They get happy. The whole everybody boosts up. It's like a very underrated thing telling your friends you love. Yeah. Oh, it's shocking. Like

32:33when you're not even supposed to do it, but like again, because we live this is I mean so much of what we live in is like very advanced, but so much of it is like ridiculously barbaric and primitive that to tell your friend you love them can be a shocking moment. Shafir still stammers. It's so weird. I go, "All right, I love you, dude." He goes, "Yeah, I love you, too. Got to go." Joey Diaz, you know, I love you, dog. You know, I Joey's like the most loving guy of all time. Eddie Bravo is a very loving guy. Well, you know, you know, we know a lot of loving people. Shabb's loving. I think we are love. And and the the thing that I've been thinking lately or just playing around this idea is like what if uh I have all these different versions of it and I don't quite know the right way to get it out. But like so imagine like directly behind you is a window that opens up into a universe where

33:30everything's made of love, right? And you're standing in front of the window blocking that light, right? You're standing in front of the window. And so like the human condition, again, this is just a thought experiment and admittedly a very high thought experiment that I had, but I can't get it out of my head. So, and I've heard Rahm Doss give different versions of this, too, but the So, the idea is like here's this window opening up into this alternate I don't even want to call it an alternate universe, the actual universe. I guess it's kind of like Plato's allegory of the cave too, but you're standing in front of this window blocking the love. Your ego is, right? Your ego is. And so the more opaque your ego becomes, the more you allow yourself to become less and less of a thing stuck to anything at all, the more the light from that universe shines into this one.

34:21Right? So when you're with someone who's like, "I love you. I really love you." They've gotten over their ego enough to let the light from that window. They've kind of like managed to let that light shine through them for a second into this dimension, which is why it's so shocking. And like maybe why babies are so entrancing because there's there's no ego there. They're just p a pure blast of love or dogs in the same way or cats or like anything that loves you is so incredible because what they actually are are like windows or portals into the reality of what our universe is, which is love. And so if you're blocking the window, then that means that like you're mostly living in a world of shadows. It's like a person who's like very egotistical is like living in a shadowy world. Dude, you spent way too much time at Burning, man. You fry your brain. I didn't spend enough time at burn. You

35:16fried your brain. You're talking windows and love and letting things through. Let it in, man. Let love in. Let it in. Why are you starting your cult? Can I join? I want to join yours. Can we join each others? Mhm. I was just thinking when you were talking about dimensions, like is that an egotistical point of view that we have that there's like a portal to another dimension? And is it really just that these dimensions are constantly around us? We just don't have the ability to access them. Like they're there all the time. Yeah. Maybe that's like legitimately why no one like the Fermy paradox, you know, the Fermy paradox, which is um if there's so many stars and so many planets, where are all the aliens? Where's the aliens? Um maybe they don't maybe they get so smart that they never do that. Like maybe no one does that. Maybe we're we're like in this rudimentary thing

36:08like these stupid are still they're still making metal dicks and trying to the sky. They're shooting rockets up into space and they're landing people on this. They're still doing it that way. Like they they lack the ability to transcend space and time and to just pass through other through other dimensions. It's like as a species, we're like a crazy person in a bus station staring at its at his hand and being like, "Where are the aliens? I don't see the aliens in my hand." When it's like all he has to do is look up and he's surrounded by it. Well, you know the ultimate mind when it comes to the time travel, right? No. The ultimate mind when it comes to time travel is that one day they are going to have a time machine and it's probably likely it might take a hundred thousand years. Who knows how long? Think about when was the first tool like was it a couple hundred thousand years ago? I

37:01think it was I think the first tools were somewhere around I have to look at my calendar. I'm not sure. So from the first tool to now couple hundred thousand years I think from now to a time machine if we stay alive if we don't blow ourselves up we don't get hit by an asteroid if we keep improving they're going to figure it out and the day they figure it out what becomes crazy is then all time travel from any point in the future to that moment is possible and to any place else on the scale. See, the idea is that you can only travel where there's a road. So once the time machine is invented, time ceases to be linear and everything happens all at once, right? Like literally anyone can come back to any point in time and go back and forth. You could smack someone and then you go back in time before you smack them and kiss them and then go back in time and smack

37:58them and they'll go back in time and kiss them. You could pull their pants down. You could pull their pants up. You could do whatever the you mean. You literally could go back and forth in time and it would have never happened and you'd be communicating with the same person once it happens. So once it does happen and people have access to it which that access like everything else whether it's cell phones or automobiles or anything the access the access starts in a limited way or very few people can afford it and then it becomes worldwide. Did we talk about directed panspermia already is related to time travel? No I don't think so. So it's like the idea directed pants I mean intentional like yeah Prometheus yeah it's like exactly so the idea is like okay uh I so I know this idea well you need the road to travel so we need to build the road so what's the so let's say I do invent the

38:47technology for a time machine which basically means I have point A now I need a point B right so the point B uh I've got to get the I've got to get the further out the point B is I guess the more the the more the more powerful the time machine would be. Right? So this the idea of directed panspermia as a means of uh time travel is assuming you are this super advanced species. Then what you do is you create these genetic these these like you you create like DNA. You create a kind of packaged thing that when it lands in the right environment that you could live in has the tendency to evolve into a technological civilization that will build a time machine that is actually point B for your time machine. So you release from your planet just infinite blasts of this uh DNA and you know that when it lands on the road and then the seed finds the right soil, it's going to

39:48grow into a technological tree that at the end of its growth is going to flower with your point B, the end of your time machine. So if you were this kind of interstellar traveler, then for you, you would send these seeds out into time and then the moment a time that they got to the point where they built a time machine for you, it would seem like it happened instantly. There's your point B. You don't know what it's going to lead to, but uh you know it's going to be at least a habitable planet because you've developed this uh these these uh genetic machines to only take root in a planet that you could live on. So what we are are these genetic robots that are compelled to build technology because we're opening up the point B in some kind of interstellar time machine. And that's what the singularity is. It's when our creator masters come through the time portal that we've opened up on

40:43this planet and say, "Oh, hi. You did it." Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty interesting. I It seems like it works. seems so science fictiony though that if we really got to a point like imagine if our civilization had gotten to a point where we could transcend space and time and travel through the universe and and go to any place at any point in time and even drop the seeds of life on a planet and sort of what is that that term that they were going to use on Mars where they they uh what is it called what's the term when you take a terform terraforming yes thank you and that they had done this like and then they're going to come back like the silver surfer and like I don't think so. I think we're them. I think we are them. I don't think there's anything else. This is what I think. And I think this is a ridiculous way to look at it, too, because uh I don't know. And I'm talking Sure. Me, too. But I

41:33think it is entirely possible that we're number one. Meaning that we're the first. We're the first. We're the first of all these things to achieve this state. and that when these things achieve this state, they they either blow themselves up or they keep going and they become more and more advanced. But I don't think it happens very often. And I might be wrong. I might be totally wrong, but it hasn't happened anywhere near us. So, let's pretend that the galaxy that we look at right now that we can see, let's let's pretend that's the universe. What if we find out that out of this galaxy of hundreds of millions of stars, we're the only intelligent life? Yeah, that drastically narrows the possibility for intelligent life everywhere else in the universe except for the fact that the universe is infinite. Which means that not only is there intelligent life somewhere in the

42:20universe, there's a Duncan trussle somewhere in the universe. Not only is there a Duncan trussle, but there's a Duncan trussle that said everything that you said in the exact same order. With every pause, every time you dribble piss on your toilet seat and you go, I'll take care of that later and you shut the lid. It did that to the exact tea. an infinite number of times throughout space and time. So like not only is there one of you, but there's an infinite number of you and then an infinite number of possibilities left and right that you could have gone, right? Different paths you could have taken. Like that's how big the universe is. That's how big infinity is. But that doesn't mean that anything's ever gotten smarter than this. This is the only thing that we know that's gotten this smart, right? And it might be this is the only thing that's got this smart

43:04because something had to be the first thing that got this smart. It didn't h unless it happened simultaneously like we're saying then it happened with a bunch of things. But let's call that thing the same thing in different places. It's not like there's a gray alien with big black eyes and a giant head and a little skinny neck that reads your mind and flies through magnetic fields, right? We're not talking about that. We're talking about you and I. This thing this thing might exist an infinite number of times all throughout space and time. But let's call it this one thing. this one thing. This might be the first time anything has gotten as advanced as this one thing. So it's like the term the simulationists are using is base reality. Like this is base reality. Yeah. And the there the statistical probability of this being base reality is somehow uh it's more probable this isn't base

43:51reality. But yeah, it is a probability that this is base reality. And there's also a probability that this isn't base reality. Like we you know you get to roll the dice on that one. I I like I who knows I mean it's impossible to to really like at this point we can't prove that this isn't the default base reality that the entire universe is experiencing. But my guess would be that no way man this is like a I think it's more realistic that we're in a like a a novelty farm like some kind of technological novelty farm. Like it's weren't like a I mean to use human terms we're like I mean if you could simulate a universe and then create intelligent anything sentient intelligent beings or particularly sentient intelligent beings that matched you your species duplicate yourself even and then run that duplication an infinite number of times in this server mechanism or whatever you

44:45have in your supercomput and then like you know you just set time to loop uh and it it it'll as fast a rate as your uh computer would let you. So at night you just like you let it run in the morning you wake up and it's like oh look Hemingway. Huh that's interesting. The entire works of Hemingway just got generated in my universe simulator by one of the simulated creatures that I had in there. I mean it's a very prosperous job. You'd be like a novelty farmer or something. In the same way they've got those Bitcoin things that are like constantly grinding to like make bitcoins. You're making universes and inside the universes the universes are making planets and the planets are making technology and the technology is being uh every single whatever your morning happens to be whenever you wake up you're like oh cool we've got wa that's interesting that's a

45:36new form of teleportation I haven't seen that before it's a way to like harvest information from a kind of living AI or something like that you know it seems like it'd be a very a really smart way to kind of like gather gather data or to create no novelty events. I mean just for the pure entertainment of it like if you had a way to like access like five like for you it's like you know like right now we download a movie it takes like 2 minutes 5 minutes what depending on your connection in the same way like you wait 5 minutes and a universe is born and dives and throughout that it can pick out an interesting moments like look at this oh look here's that moment where in that planet uh the world war III started because Russia wanted to like secure Syria and we didn't want it to happen. Wow, look at the disaster. Well, we already have examples of this in a rudimentary form and all these new

46:30universes that are being created in these online games that people are playing. Exactly. Yeah. If What are those games, Jamie? What are what are those games called? Do you know the name of those games where they create different worlds like literally Oh, yeah. It's called Procedural Generation. You're talking about the No Man's Sky. The game that everyone got angry about. Why' they get angry about it? Well, they got angry about it because the the summation of the anger is just because something is gigantic doesn't mean it's entertaining, right? And so you end up getting in this kind of like feedback loop because if you're going to procedurally generate an infinite uh or a semi-infinite universe with all these different planets and stuff, then that means you need an AI that you can procedurally generate that's also going to procedurally generate, you know, what

47:14we consider to be a game, like you know, interesting story lines, fun things to do. It's just you're just creating things, right? Right. Well, that's one part. The other part that people got mad about is the apparently, not even apparently, you can see like people got so mad. God, may you never piss off the gaming community. That's like just like don't with it, man. Cuz they swore, man. And it's vicious and brutal. Like I was playing the game and really enjoying it for like at least a week and a half, two weeks, and I would go on like Reddit, No Man's Sky, and read the comments and I'd be like, "God, you guys are dicks. This game's super fun. I'm on the best time of my life. I'm never going to play this again. They talked you out of it. No, I No, in the game it just suddenly it's like, wait, it got boring. It got boring and it got, you know, for me it got

48:04boring. For other people, I know some people who still But you were saying you guys are dicks. Like when I was enjoying it, reading their critique, but really it was like reading the critique of gourmet chefs far more familiar with like where gaming is at. You know, these are people who play games all the time and know and like have very high expectations. But anyway, the point is yes, it procedurally generates this incredible universe, but it ends up getting kind of boring or something like that. But yeah, procedurally generate like we are in a procedurally generated universe that is producing novelty events which may be in the universe that we are being procedurally generated out of as a form of currency or a form of entertainment or a form of something we don't even understand yet. But uh what could all I know is if I if there was a game called universe creator run your

48:55computer and your universe will at some point generate sentient life that at some point will start generating technology that at some point you'll be able to like watch and possibly use in your own dimension then I would be running that if I was a company. I would definitely be running that software for sure. I would want that to exist just for uh pure capitalism. What's better than like having a never-ending stream of inventions coming from your universe simulator that you could then market in this dimension? I think there's something weird that we do too where we look at things that we can generate with a computer versus things that sort of exist in the real world and we look at them as coming from different sources, something that man makes versus something that just happens. Yeah. And because of we look at it from different sources, I don't think we recognize that

49:48it's kind of the same thing. Like there's a long process from a star exploding to a human being being born, but they're all connected. The star exploding is necessary for the development of of the carbon-based life form on the earth. Right. Right. So this the elements that make us they a star had to blow up like there's this long part but we don't think of that as like being made because it takes too long. We decide we're going to call it evolution or natural selection and but by defining any of these things in that way we've we've failed to look at the thing for what the thing is. What the thing is forget about whether evolution is real or creationism is real. That's nonsense. That doesn't mean anything. Like whatever is doing it, it's doing it. And it's doing it from a star blowing up to a person talking about a star blowing up to his friend. Yeah. Like right now.

50:51Yeah. That's right. This this is all made like whatever you've made has been made by this process. Any great painter, any architect who's built the most incredible buildings, you were made. This whole thing is made, right? And you're making things, too. But the those things aren't any more significant than trees, than all this. The whole thing is nuts. Yeah. The whole thing is somehow or another getting more and more complex, more and more involved, more and more aware, faster information sharing between the things that make the things and making more and crazier and better things. But all of these things made by a star explosion, right? Yeah. I guess like if you want to get like technical the so when you say made uh what starts it it imply Okay. Right. So you I mean it's I look a process. You know me man I think this I think we're probably like we're I really do think

51:48that whatever this is is like uh is literally made in the sense of like a maker like it was. You really think there's a maker like an individual? What? An individual? I don't think it's an individual, but and I don't think it's like some force. I think it's the uh yeah, create something that's very creative and I think that it's or or it's a source of creativity and uh I think that it's uh you know I I mean I'm a it. I I'll say it. I'm a theist, man. Like I pray I I dare you. I'm sorry. I dare you. We'll be right back. I know. No. sounds of you punching me. I wake up. I look I I just love to pray and like when my life gets better when I pray and like I just love it. But it's it's make I mean I you know me I don't have to people I know you too. So I enjoy So when I So when you say well what is it an individual? I think it's like there's lots of different ways of saying it and

52:51every single way of saying it falls short of what it is. Now, there's a I keep telling you about this guy, man. One day I hope you pick him up. There's a a Buddhist teacher named Chyim Trumpa who says so I'll like get in an argument with Chim Trump. Like if he heard me spew that what he would say is wait. So when I ask you, is it an individual? Is it a thing? Is it a person? And you say, "I don't know, man. There's no words for it." Then at that moment, what you've done is you've taken your confusion and you've put it on an altar and you've started worshiping it as though it were your god. Your ability to not articulate the thing is not an indication of the existence of a thing, but is more the indication of your laziness because you want to like deify your uh confused passionate emptiness. It's something like that. There's a great Ford in one of his books that is that's

53:48a great quote echoed through my head ever since I heard confused passionate emptiness. Yeah, exactly. You're It's like a Courtney Love song. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Confused, passionate emptiness. But uh so that being said, I still uh uh the the I think you should do experiments in reaching out to the transcendent as though it were possibly an embodied thing that was a lot smarter than you. And if the result of the experiment is nothing, if you just feel embarrassed or dumb or you're like, why the am I praying? Why then who cares? You lose nothing. But if the result of the experiment is even as a placebo effect, you begin to experience a shift in your subjective reality, then I think it's worth continuing those experiments and seeing like how it unfolds. Well, let's take away that definition. Um the placebo effect because if you have in some way decided to meditate towards um

54:51towards the objective of communicating with the great love that runs the universe. Yeah. and somehow or another that benefits you, that's not a placebo effect, right? That's that's a shift in your consciousness. Whether or not it's validated by the existence of that thing, yeah, doesn't matter. It's still a shift in your consciousness through what appears to be a decision appears to be a decision that you've made to gravitate towards God or gravitate towards love. Yeah, you know, I've always had the problem whenever people talk about intelligent design or a thing or a deity and this is my own problem. I automatically think of instead of the universe like say is there's the universe and then there's this thing over here like right next to the universe. It's like I'm just going to sit here and make the universe. It's stupid way that I look at it. It's completely my own like you can grow up

55:45or you can just sort of form these ideas in your head about what a deity is and then those ideas can be little prisons. Yeah. When you try to define the universe. So my defining universe is the universe being this thing that this thing has created and it's sitting over here in this other thing. Like is it in the universe? Does it does it build it from the universe? Like where is it? Is it next door? of a condo next to the universe. Like what does it have? Like how is is it a part of the universe? Is it or is it that the idea of an individual is the wrong way to look at it that if you look at all the life on Earth, right? It seems that there's a lot of things in nature that are fractal, right? It seems to exist pretty much everywhere you look. Yeah. And when they start looking at subatomic particles and you realize how deep they can go and how small they can measure

56:40things. And then you look at the size of the universe itself. You look at the size of galaxies and black holes and just the vastness of space and the the ability to measure I think they measure 13 something billion light years since the big bang. all that madness, all that craziness that they're they're they're trying to uh I think by looking all that at all that stuff, by looking at the the vastness of all this, we we define it in this way where there's a a Duncan over here, and there's an ant over there, and there's a, you know, another animal over here. But inside of all of us are a bunch of different animals that are all little tiny ecosystems, right? Like inside every person, there's not a single individual life form that's a person. Every person requires all this life inside of it. Eoli living in your body and all sorts of gut flora, all sorts of things that are not you. But

57:41they are you because you are a system. You're a system just like your neighborhood's a system. Just like the rainforest is a system. I'm sure all the people in the rainforest that are uh you know hunting with bows and arrows and looking out for jaguars, I'm sure they don't think of themselves as a system, but they're a life system. That's how life balances itself out. Both in your gut and in the jungle and in the mountains of Montana and in the the the savas of Africa. These are all system life systems, right? And our vision of life systems is that this life system is contained to this planet and this is it. But this plan everything on this planet, right? The the life system that's contained on this planet is all bathed in oxygen, right? It's all these gases. And the elimination of those gases does not mean that you're not connected to all the other things that don't have

58:36those gases. You take those gases away, you go into space itself. You're still connected to that. You're still a soup. You're a part of an infinite soup of space. Yeah. And you just like a subatomic particle that blinks in and out of existence that they can measure. It's moving and it's not moving. It's there and it's gone. This is how small the life form of a planet is, right? In comparison to the mass of the universe itself, which might very well be just like every other fractal, the bigger you get, the more it represents the same patterns over and over again in larger scales. That's right. The entire planet could be a subatomic part particle in the cell of an organism that lives on another planet. The entire universe itself. Or if you want even go deeper into it could the entire universe could be some kind of like uh synaptic pulse in the brain of an entity just

59:33having a dream. like which is the synaptic pulse of another entity that's also having a dream bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and there's no end. This is the uh this is this is the one of the first in in the emerald tablet this alchemical you've seen that we've probably talked about it what's the emerald tablet look it up it's the Emerald Tablet book it's the it's like this alchemical text that's like this super condensed uh Is it really old? Yeah, it's really old, man. And and I'm going to try to say that it's the it's got a great name that I always say it wrong and I always get corrected and so I'll say it wrong again. The Emerald Tablet um uh there it is of Hermes trimested something. But if you open it up, open up the Emerald Tablet and then hopefully we can see what it says on it because it's like uh there it is. Okay. What does the first one say? Okay. To certain

60:28with error, certain true. So you just said number two, that which is ab bel below is like that which is above and that which is above is like that which is below. Um to do the miracles of only one thing and as all things have been and arose from one by the mediation of one, so all things have their birth from this one thing by adaptation. So anyway, it's like so it's all the that we were just talking about. Somebody had already figured it out. Well, it's it's like so yeah, it's like the it's the it's evidence that other people have been as high as we are. enough to put it in a tablet. Dude, they didn't have podcasts. They used to like have to carve in a tablet. Took a lot of work. write that down. We got to find some emerald, man. Yeah. If you had to write all that on bark. Yeah, that's a lot of work. Yeah, but this is kind of the like the all these alchemical ideas. I guess it's like it

61:19it only makes sense that if we see these fractals all throughout nature and we can observe them here that our ideas that we can only observe subatomic particles that that's that's the whole universe. Like it's probably infinitely smaller than that. By the way, here's what's cool about that is that is a translation by Isaac Newton. Yeah. So, and he was really into this man. Like Newton was nuts. Like he was Newton was asexual, too, right? I I think he was like I think these I don't want to say cuz he was like it's a I don't know if he was asexual but if he was I think a lot of these guys they were around with mercury a lot and like it was like messing with their heads like oh I'm sure yeah but uh I don't know God forgive me everyone out there I don't but go to Newton and the occult go back and look at the occult section it's really interesting I don't

62:06think a lot of people are aware of the fact that Newton was deeply into the occult like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of those scientists and deep thinkers back then were they were checking on all sorts of different things. Well, I mean checking on it is one way to put it. Another way to put it is like it may be that some of these people figured out ways to directly communicate with this intelligence that I that that I certainly believe in and it's through mercury poisoning. Yeah, maybe mercury is the way. Do you know speaking go back to his personal life because you were showing his personal life stuff there. I want to make sure I'm right because I said that he was asexual. I read some weirdness about the way he viewed sex. And wasn't he a Christian as well? Uh pretty hardcore Christian. I don't know what kind of Christian he was. Like that's a that's a whole other I mean

62:53Christian's a big word. Never married. Although he was once what does it what does it say? Once claimed that he is oh although it was once it was claimed that he was engaged. Newton never married. The widespread belief that he died of a virgin has been com commented on by writers such as mathematician Charles Hutton probably a hater economist John Maynard Kanes Kees hater and physicist Carl Sean how dare you Carl well thank you I just said it I just said it so me you did say it why is why are you talking about Newton not even talking about I'm just fascinated by um individuals that are brilliant beyond beyond the norm like Tesla who was also like a weird guy sexually. Yeah. Fell in love with a pigeon. Yes. You know the whole deal. Completely out of his mind, but yet insanely brilliant. Like beyond insanely brilliant. I think that's what happens is like what we And

63:47by the way, we call them out of their minds, you know, where meanwhile like what are we doing that makes any sense? Like oh yeah, they're crazy. I got it all figured out. Look what I'm doing. I'm sitting in a podcast studio talking about the infinite universe. It's like we're all like the idea that any there is a kind of uh pattern that's like oh yeah that's the sane pattern right there. Well I think these people they uh they do make contact and I think you know we talk about like uh uh I one of my favorite I think you told me this Joe. One of my favorite uh UFO conspiracy theories is that Roswell was a real alien crash. And that we can chart the evolution of technology from the Roswell alien crash. That technology is actually some kind of alien virus that came in through Roswell and is now spreading through our through history. Yeah, that was like that's the most popular

64:48um conspiracy theory when it comes to the creation of like the transistor Bell Laboratories which is in New Jersey. Um there's an Air Force base outside of Bell Laboratories and Bell Laboratories is supposed to be where they examined all the parts that they took from from the UFO and they flew it to Wright Patterson Air Force Base and then they took all the stuff out of it. It's it's so fantastic, dude. I one of the many things I love about you man is you are like the Library of Congress for this stuff whereas in my mind it's just like a murky swamp when I try to remember it's like if I pull you can you can in detail expound on these things you like photographically memorize them. I think it's really cool and I so therefore I know that you were the one who told me this and I think about it a lot. It's a really cool idea, but I think it's funny because for us, we're like, okay, the

65:37way we would get technology is by a metal craft shooting into the Earth and then we're going to take that and make technology. Whereas, I think the real alien encounters that happen throughout history, the UFO encounters, a UFO for l for as for lack of a better word, a UFO flies through the consciousness of Isaac Newton. and Isaac Newton, Tesla, all of the great inventors have this spontaneous idea where they're like, "Wait, what? Wait, oh wait." And so the alien technology is actually not something that is a necessarily has to be matter, but starts as a thought form that then gets sort of produced through the spinner of the particular inventor that like allows it to come through them. You know, I said this very thing in an interview today, the very exact thing. Because we were talking about ideas possibly being a life form. Ideas being a form of like what creativity and

66:36ideas being a form of life that forces the change on an environment forces the change in in in a civilization. They come from ideas. the ideas. Creativity is responsible for everything, including this microphone, the internet connection, the building we're in, everything we're wearing, everything. The car you drove to get here, all of it comes from the imagination, from ideas, and from creativity. And the initial burst of imagination comes from where? We don't know. It might be a life form. It might be as much of a life form as a physical thing like like a person or it might be the uh Okay. So like a a plane or you know like a I don't know you see in the it's never actually happened to me but like a plane flies too low and like the trees or like when a helicopter's landing the trees blow people have to hold their hands to their ears right so maybe when these like

67:29transcendent objects enter into our time space continuum tons of people start having the very same idea or different like brilliant ideas that are actually just the uh the sort of impact that this craft as it passes through our planet or passes near us or whatever that means from the dimension that they're in. Maybe that's the impact that it has on our consciousness is the sudden origination of these incredible ideas that end up creating massive shifts in our society that that that's because if you look at like Tesla where he got his ideas and I don't know about Newton but a lot of uh great inventors there it's not like their ideas came as they were sitting at the whiteboard calculating and then they got had a Eureka moment. It's like they had dreams. Well, Tesla literally was claiming that he was getting some information from space. Yeah. He thought

68:22he was getting information from space. That's right. Yeah. Um I I think I think you're on to something. John Lily, too. Mhm. Well, he was so up all the time, though. How does he know it's space? Lily was shooting intramuscular ketamine and then climbing into an isolation tank all the time. Yeah. LSD isolation tank. But the ketamine injections, that was towards the end. Like I think I think in the beginning it was LSD. It was LSD and there was like uh and it was like I think he got to the point where he recognized that maybe his physical body was actually getting in the way of of what he actually was. So he just sort of wanted to melt into nothingness and it was sort of troubled by this thing. Yeah. He was like I got I got to keep coming back to this thing. He was ready to get out of it. Not as a suicidal way, but just like the way that a uh something that is molted has to

69:14like discard it. So, he was so far removed. I don't want to say gone because I don't think he's wrong, but he was so far removed from the average human being like in terms of like how bizarre his paths of thinking had gone. Yeah. And what he was trying to accomplish. He was trying to I mean he's a pioneer of int communication with dolphins. get dolphins high on acid. He would get high on acid. He He was giving acid to dolphins. I didn't know that part of the story. Do you know that his research on dolphins was all cancelled because the girl who was a scientist was jerking the dolphin off? That got his research canled. Yeah, that was one of the things that got the the the project where she was living with a dolphin. I like the story you're telling me cuz it's the story of the luckiest dolphins. Like you know what I mean? Like not only I'm I'm saying if you get caught as a

70:08dolphin it's not great. But if you are going to get caught by the monkeys and you don't you end up in a place where they like they're giving you acid and jerking you off. That's the sound a dolphin makes when you jerk them off. Can you imagine if that dolphin got in a conversation with a SeaWorld dolphin and they're like, "Wait, what? Wait, what? You get jerked off, dude. acid and I have to do flips for fat kids. this man. this gig. She jerks you off. How often? Every day. Every day. Yeah. And she kind of likes it. I don't She does like it. I don't understand how that got his experiments canled cuz it's pleasure. Cuz we're so puritanical. We like through a scientist. It's not It's makes sense. This dolphin was severely distracted. It was horny all the time. She would jerk the dolphin off. the dolphin could relax and then it would do its work, right?

71:06But the dolphin was always horny cuz the dolphin's like a kid, you know? The dolphin's like an 18-year-old kid. Like 18-year-old kid with a boner is just so distracted. Good luck trying to get him to do work, right? So, she just thought rationally, first of all, she's a scientist. She didn't think there was anything wrong with sex. And she definitely realized that there was a problem in her research where this dolphin is dealing with too much desire to get rid of So she wrote she whacked them off. Whacked them off and got back to work. I mean it's it's a very smart and pragmatic way of looking at it. The problem is she told people about it like over cocktails. You know it was her boyfriend who ruined it. Like she was like so anyway I jerked off. What was the dolphin's name? It's a good question. I bet like when he came to visit her at work like he started

71:54getting a vibe that she was jerking off the dolphin like it was looking at him weird. No kidding, right? Yeah. Like, can you imagine what a bizar? And the other thing is the dolphins, they were trying to get dolphins to say human words. Yeah. But they can't. They don't have any lips, right? So, they can't make those sounds. So, they would do their best to make something close to it. Yeah. But, you know, they have those high piercing shrieking sort of sounds that they can make. Do you know, man, that's the She's even the thing. Here's what would have happened. If they could have gotten the dolphin to talk, they would have canceled it because the only thing it would say is, "Jerk me off again. Jerk me off again." Wait, what did it say? Jerk me off. Have you seen the video? I don't mean to change the subject. Have you seen the video of the crow telling someone you? No. Do

72:45you know that video? If you look it up, it is so funny, man. Like this guy like this guy in like he doesn't insult the crow, but the crow really like snarks him. I hope you can find the crow literally says you. Look at this. Watch this. Come here. Talk to him. Hello. Hello. That's crazier. He's going to come sit by. That's crazy. I don't hear anything. Watch. trying to pet him. Oh no, that mother got the big head big gun. you. you. Whoa. It's like he insults his beak and he's like, "Fuck you." Whoa. See, if it was any other animal, I'd go, "No way." Right. But they're so goddamn smart. Yeah. Yeah. He didn't want like, "Fuck you. You're make fun of my beak." Did you ever see the raven that starts a fight between two cats? No. Dude, can we see that, please? I put it up on my Instagram. This is some crazy Some raven flies over to one cat, with him a little bit, the cat

74:07tries to get away from him, the cat like turns around real quick, and the the raven jumps away. Then the raven flies over to another cat who's on another rooftop. Sweat how he does this. He literally starts a fight between these two. He's just hanging out there. So cool. He's like, "Damn, I'm bored." So he flies over there and I guess it's not a raven. Is that a raven? I don't know. It's a crow, too. It's a crow. It's a crow. But it Why does it look white? Is that the reflection of the sun on him? I don't know. It could be a I don't know what. Anyway, so he flies over there. He gets near the cat and he he irritates the cat. And then he flies over. Gets near the other cat. Look, he's getting behind him. He irritates him. He with him. He's with both of them literally like he's with him on purpose. Look, he's getting really close and then he backs up. He's getting

74:52really close. He with him. Look, he's literally with that cat. Awesome. He keeps he keeps poking at him. He's getting right behind him. The cat turns around to swing at him. So, he's agitating the cat and the cat jumps on the other cat and he flies over there and he's a foot away from them while they're duking it out. They fall off the roof. They're beating the out of each other. He flies to the ground and he's watching them like he literally instigated and started this fight and he's proddding them while they're fighting. Look, they fall into a hole. They're beating the out of each other, dude. And that bird's like, "Dude, that's the bird." Look, he hops in there. He hop in there with them. It's crazy. It's Satan. That's the bird is the devil. The raven. Yeah. That's so great. Raven. Ravens are always thought to be satanic, right? Well, yeah. I mean, I

75:44guess so. Or they're they're like uh harbingers of doom. They're called There's a great word for it. Psychops is the word for it. Like animals that appear, I think, before someone's going to die. Uh like crows. There's a whole bunch. There's the Edgar Allen Poven. The Raven. Yeah, the Raven. That Well, I think, you know, I read an analysis of what that was. It's like very very sad, man. Probably about to check the dump. You're never going to be happy again. Oh, that's it. The idea is like yeah, you're never going to be happy again. Like ever. Like you're you're like happiness is a dream. Give it up. The reality is that life is just, you know, it's the usual kind of dril that comes out of people. No, I don't mean to say dil, but sometimes the old happy juice isn't coming out of the synaptic vest vesicles the way it should. And you translate that. It's like instead of recognizing

76:34that your engine is running low on coolant, you think that all cars in the world must just run in some shitty way. It's really it's to me it's one of the the most beautiful things to realize while simultaneously being one of the most depressing things to realize which is that so much of what human happiness is is coming from these uh synaptic vesicles these little you know bubbles of uh serotonin that are getting dripped into our brains according to our what activities we are partaking in you know and so uh some people the drip isn't happening and I could say that it's probably safe to say that for Edgar Allan Poe, if his brain, if you could say the synaptic vesicles are the vagina of the human brain, then his were dry, arid, just just chafed synaptic vesicles. He was depressed. Nothing's coming out, man. And like I know what that's like because uh anyone who's

77:36taken MDMA, if you've taken MDMA and have felt the MDMA related depression, um extrapolate from that three straight years of that unrelenting numbness that comes when you don't have enough of the happy juice up there. And then you're going to start writing like quote the Raven, never more. Also, it doesn't help that uh his wife, I think at one point she had uh what was the name of that terrible disease? Tuberculosis. I think it was tuberculosis. She had some horrible lung disease. And I think she was playing piano at this uh party that he threw and she just like exploded blood all over the piano. Like she just coughed up a big spray of blood. So he had a rough life. Edgar Allen Poe. He's a alcoholic. You know, he had a crazy Well, there you go. That too. That that makes depression. I mean, it doesn't help. That's for sure. Nothing hinders your happiness like crashing your system

78:39every night. Yeah. When you you're you're essentially slowly poisoning yourself if you're really uh into drinking all the time. Oo. Not good. Not good. Not good. There's so many better options out there for you to not pod. That's illegal. But I didn't know. I didn't know. Quote the raven. Never more. Never more. Yeah. I just think that people would benefit more from it too from marijuana. Yeah. Instead of making you more confident, it makes you less. It makes you more like more aware, more objective. It just makes you It's a nicer drug. It's a nicer like in terms of its effects, in terms of the behavior of people that are on it. Just a way nicer drug. I gotta tell you, man, like the all this coming out about Hillary Clinton, the thing that really bummed me out the most, man, was that she's like anti-marijuana. Like that that really like that really gets to me, man. It's

79:37like god damn it. Cuz like I was going to do for her like the pragmatic Clinton vote, you know, like well Trump seems like a, you know, fun guy to hang out with at a party. Don't want him around my nuclear weapons. Like Hillary Clinton seems like a like a a uh you know god just like the ultimate politician like the super evolved ultimate flower on the goddamn bush of politics like she's but god so it I'll I'll write in I'll check Hillary Clinton it's like godamn it like she's Gary Johnson what Gary Johnson Gary Johnson makes sense I I mean I mean he doesn't know about Aleppo but he doesn't know about a lot of things. I'm sure that he's going to have to learn if he becomes president. Do you really think that is that really your Donald Trump paying attention to that? That's who you're endorsing. I'm endorsing him more than anybody else. That's who you're

80:29going to vote for? I'd vote. I'll write in you. How about that, Don't write in me. Write in bag of tarantulas. Write in bag of tarantulas. That's what I'm writing in. Not writing in bag of tarantulas. It sounds ridiculous. But I do think that I just I mean can only talk about this nonsense so long, but her her insistence on working towards marijuana and making sure that marijuana stays a schedule one drug. Yeah. It's it's not just disappointing. It's it's traitorous. Traitorous. Is that a word? Yeah. I mean it's bigly traitorous. Make it What's the word? It's not traitorous. Shitties traitorous. You could say traitorous. Sounds wrong. Sounds like a dinosaur. A traitorsaurus. Hillary Clinton's a traitorsaurus. But I think it's it's not just not doing your job to serve and protect us and to lead us. It's not only is it not doing your job, it's doing the opposite of your job. You're doing

81:32something for profit and for you. You've made a connection and through influence you've decided to do something that you know for sure doesn't help anybody. It keeps people in jail. That's all you need to know. The keep people in jail part. That's all you need to know. More people were arrested for marijuana than for all violent crimes combined. That's so up. It's insane. But that's the problem is that it's a business. There's a giant business in arresting people and putting people in jail, keeping people in jail, enforcing laws. There's a business in that. It's a huge business. We don't want to think of it as a huge business. But anytime a huge business drops off, and it's going to drop off, whoever you're if you're in that business, get out now cuz you're like Blockbuster Video, you You're not going to make it. You mean the prison business? Yes. the prison business and the drug

82:29business, the DEA business, the arresting people for marijuana business. Anybody who's in the arresting people for marijuana business, you might as well be selling Betamax. I hope you're right, man. You can't It's not It's not going to work anymore. You can't keep arresting people for something that everybody does, just like they had to give it up with alcohol. But if she's saying if like the the next president, she's definitely going to be the next president is saying that she's going to continue this prohibition to the bankers that were paying her to give a presentation then and this is the person Obama's endorsing and Bernie Sanders is endorsing. It's just like I mean look I you know I don't know I don't the more I look into all this the more confused I become. Like I start I tried to like go a little deeper into it like looking up the Clinton Foundation and then like checking out

83:21the charity websites that like talk about the Clinton Found or give it a rating or whatever and it's like well they it definitely doesn't it like there's a lot of misinformation coming from both sides but the most the one I trust only because they're like a left-leaning super liberal website the Huffington Post called there's an article in there saying that Hillary the Clinton Foundation's gross is the name of the article. And basically it says the foundation itself, if you look at the tax returns, since it's an operating foundation, all the about how they're only giving like 6% or 10% of the money to charities is wrong because they are doing They are doing stuff. The foundation goes into the world. It has worked with AIDS. So you can't villainize the entire foundation. But what's up is the Clintons when they go to give talks to people who then donate to the foundation, they get

84:17paid and that money is separate from what goes to the foundation. So when Hillary Clinton goes and like gives a speech and then they donate to the foundation, the amount they pay her for the speech doesn't go to the foundation. Exactly. That goes to the Clintons. When Bill Clinton and it's hundreds of thousands of dollars for an hour speech. Yeah. Right. So that's where it's like that's where the corruption is. And apparently there used to be some kind of law that if there was even the appearance of corruption in politics then you had to change your operating procedures but that apparently got changed in the Supreme Court or something. So now you you could Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. And like last night at the debates, man, when uh when they asked her about the Wikileaks which is real, like it's however the information got obtained, it it really doesn't matter, but but I

85:09mean it matters, but the the issue is the information itself. Yeah. Right. So when you watch that faint where she's like, you got it from Putin, it was amazing to me. That was like, god damn it. like Trump, there's a really great chance right there for you to be like, "Did Putin send those emails? Was he writing your emails?" Because let's talk about the emails and then we'll talk about Russia. But he like spun off on this weird thing. It was really like a So she baited him. She baited him. She's a master at that. She's so good at playing him. She's so good. It's amazing to watch the Well, he's easy, but she's doing it masterfully. Well, she is. Well, I mean, masterfully. I guess that's like the one bitter comfort that we have is that this person who's going to become president is very very sophisticated when it comes to manipulating people. Sophisticated in a way that

86:03like god man I kept looking I kept trying to take pictures of her and you get up close vampire dude she have you someone needs to put together a montage of Clinton stink eyes. Have you seen like how good she is at giving the stink eye? Like she was looking cuz what's crazy she was like looking No, she's looking at the camera. Like I'm trying to get pictures of her cuz she's wearing the same outfit kind of as the Heaven's Gate dude the like like it's kind of the same outfit. So I'm trying to get a picture of it and uh and she she keeps looking at the camera and giving this like stink eye that felt like she was looking at me. Like it felt like she knows I'm trying to like do this tweet about her weird outfit. Like it was like this. She gives a terrible stink eye, man. Like, I've never seen anybody throw eye daggers like Hillary Clinton can, man. It's

86:54crazy. Like, do you think that that's Do you think that she's employing a different strategy now? Cuz her first strategy with him was to kind of laugh when he would say ridiculous and almost like take the high road. But now she's gone on the attack more. And now Clinton and Melania, they don't shake hands before. Yeah. Like there's all this all this stuff that's going on, man. It's a different it's a different sort of vibe now between the two of them as it ramps up. I think she was like super effective though in just taking the moral high ground. Her Yeah. I Well, I mean you have like terms of debate tactics. So here's Trump. My imagine I imagine like what a Trump strategy meeting looks like is like people sitting around eating cheeseburgers doing blow. You know what I mean? And they're like they're like Trump's already making deals for his next TV show. He's like he's like the

87:46whatever. Yeah, the president thing. They don't care. They're like, you know, he probably is getting calls from Putin. They're laughing. They're like, "All right, I got to go. I got to go. I got to do this stupid debate." Like, you know what I mean? And I think uh if you look at a Hillary Clinton strategy meeting, she's like sitting in some kind of like geodiesic dome surrounded by CIA agents who are like we've done a thermal analysis of Donald and uh here are the moments that you should hold still and at this moment we recommend that you say this and then this and then this. Like she goes through the whole they're like he's definitely going to bring up the Wikileaks here. according to our psychological analysis and also some of the DNA data we got from one of the cheeseburger crumbs that fell out of his mouth at one of these rallies is like he's going to react to this and

88:32like she just memorizes it in a kind of alien way sits there and just does it like the fighters I'm sure like I remember when you were like when I realized cuz I don't know at the time I didn't know anything about fighting but then you were explaining how like they're they have these insanely deep combos if this person does this they have all these moves like 19 moves deep that like that's incredible. So I think she's like that like she has like if he does this you do this and if he does that then this this and then that and then that and then that and they've done it all with like a government team of psychologists who fully analyzed him and know how to set him off. And she did it last night. She did it in every single debate. And it's not like she's the one who's coming up with that. She's got a team of the smartest, most manipulative people on planet Earth who baited him in to the uh

89:24elections in the first place. You saw that email, right, where they picked the three candidates that they wanted to empower, you know, or to like build up, which was Trump, what's his name? Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz. Cuz he's also a fool. Cuz he's a fool. And the other the sweet guy, the doctor, not Rubio. Carson Carson, you know. So, like they picked the three biggest fools. They They're like, "All right, let's pump them up." They pumped them up. The king of the fools made his way into the uh pres somehow. They're like, "Are you kidding? We got Trump. We got Trump. We got Trump. Trump? Hold on. Let me go to the Trump file." Oh my god. Listen to this audio of him talking about grabbing girls. She's like, "Okay, great. Let's use that. I'll hold on to that for a while." Yeah, we'll do that on the day before the second debate. Yeah, let's do that in the day before the second debate. Oh my

90:19god. You know what I mean? I think they gave it two days. Yeah. Two days to build. Simmer two days to build. And then of course they were probably working on like, you know, months leading up to it. They're like, let's find every single person that claims Donald Trump groped them or that were groped by Donald Trump or anyone who's willing to claim Donald Trump groped them. Anybody wants to get on TV? Yeah. Yeah. How you guys feeling? And I but I have a feeling I mean I don't I don't know for sure but my guess would be that if you wanted to find people who said yeah Trump grabbed my it wouldn't be that hard. It's not like you're looking for Bigfoot. Pretty easy to hunt them down would be my guess. Right. Yeah. But so so it wasn't like a hard thing to do. It's a breadcrumb ch trail. Yeah. Very simple. Very easy. And so it's like when you realize like that, then you start

91:10feeling this weird compassion for him. You're like, "My god, even with all his like maliciousness and like weird perviness and stuff, ultimately he they he's like a bull that got put into a goddamn ring with a matador who's been doing this kind of bull fighting for like 30 years, for better, for worse. And he's we're watching what we saw last night, I guess." And what's interesting about it, a big part of what's interesting about it is he came really close to winning. I mean, he's still in the neighborhood of winning, right? Plus or minus 11 points or what that means is between now and how many days do we have until the elections? 21 days. Listen, man. Lot of crazy can happen in 21 days that can shift people's opinions. No, but apparently again from all the stats. Now, look, man, I try to get I try don't say any of that stuff cuz you don't even know if

92:02it's true. They're all just talking on TV and they're they're brainwashing all of us to let us think that they know who the voting. They're not talking to you. They're not talking to me. They're not talking to Jamie. They I don't think they know nearly as a massive cover up. No, I don't think it's a massive cover up at all. I think a lot of what happens in the polls does reflect how the United States feels, but there's no way it could be 100% accurate because it's not it's not polling 100% of the people. And I think part of the problem with those polls is once you read the results of the polls, Hillary Clinton is ahead by 16%. Everybody just starts saying, "Well, Hillary Clinton's got it in the bag." I've seen the recent polls. And you even start thinking and voting towards that goal. Like people who might have voted for Trump go, I don't want to waste my vote. I want to

92:52be on the winning team. There's a lot of that. I I think really though, man, like if people like what that the effect that that actually has is people who might have been terrified of Trump being president, if they're like, "She's already ahead by 12%. I'm not going to drive out to the polls to vote." They don't come out to vote. Like, it would serve her more if there was some collusion between her and the media, which according to the Podesta emails, there certainly has been. There's like you've got the one of like the editor of Politico. You saw that one where he's like, "Fuck it. I'm a hack." Isn't that crazy? Crazy. So, like I don't know if it was the editor. I don't remember which guy was. But the point is I I would I I think it's a pretty safe bet that she's going to be the next president. And I don't think that that data that that we're getting is necessarily

93:39uh some kind of collusion between Not saying it's collusion. I'm saying it affects the event itself. I'm saying that even if you do legitimately objectively poll a group of people and you get a result from that poll, it's not really representative of 100% of the people. But once you start thinking that it is, and once people start deciding that it is, it has a massive impact on how people vote. Well, I gotta tell you, man. Before the buses go riding through varying neighborhoods and scooping up illegal immigrants, and before the abortion cops start arresting women for getting abortions, and before all the insanity that like apparently he's going to do starts happening, he Trump that if he gets elected, if he gets talking about arresting people for abortions. Yeah. He said that women should be like punished for That's one of the main one of his many fuckups is he was like, "Yeah,

94:32women should be there should be some punitive legal if women get a legal abortion." That's real. Look it up. You can find it. It's like famous. Yeah, look it up. Whoa. Yeah, he's like Yeah. He really said that. Well, he Look it up. There's a whole thing. Find him. Jamie's going to look it up. Look it up. Look at the data. Getting very worked up. I didn't know that he had said those words. That's a crazy thing to say. He said there should be arrest someone for having an abortion. Not for having an abortion. It's like for uh You'll see. It's like enough that like she mentioned it at the last debates. Well, yeah. I mean, it's it's hard to say, too, because a lot of his positions on things, you know, are off the cuff, you know, like maybe he hadn't even considered it. Somebody brings something up and he talks about it and definitely off the cuff. Trump, he said he

95:22was mis I'll let you read that. Okay, let me read it. Go back up. Go back up, please. Um, Trump abruptly reverses course, says women should not be punished for abortion. So, what did he say? What were the You have to look it up. What was the station? There's been some sort of p Oh, there has to be some sort of punishment, he said, for women who receive unlawful abortions. I have not changed my position, Trump said in the statement. He said he was referring to doctors who perform illegal abortions, not women who receive them. That's what he said in the state. I understand. Okay. So he still believes that doctors who perform illegal abortions, there should be some sort of punishment for them. All right. Well, that's not the same. Well, he wants to reverse Row versus Wade. Like, does he? Yeah. Does he? He said that last night. He said he would put in three or he said

96:06he would try to put in three Supreme Court justices that would be on that side of the the the decision. So, it would automatically get reversed was like I think his exact words almost. Man, that's so tricky. That's deciding what people can and can't do with their body. And people go, "It's not that. It's a baby." It's not always a baby. Sometimes it's a bunch of cells. When it's 10 cells, is it still a baby? You know, like you could get an abortion 10 cells in. Is that an abortion? I mean, I I do not know. I'm legitimately asking. At what point in time do you get to tell someone that they can't they have to remain pregnant? But think of the irony that pro-abortion Hillary Clinton is anti marijuana. So, she's like, "I can I'm going to tell you, no, it's not our place to uh say what a woman could do with her body, but I'm going to tell you what you can put into your body. I think it is the

96:57government's place to say that." It's like, "What the fuck?" Like, she's doing it for profit 100%. It's the only reason why the banks want her to do it in the first place. Why else would the banks be concerned about marijuana? Are they in the marijuana business? What What the is going on? Why would banks want her to be for marijuana laws? Like that doesn't make any sense. I don't get it, man. I would suspect a lot of bankers love weed. So, it doesn't make sense. No, I guarantee I know what it is. It has to do with banks having interest in pharmaceutical companies. You know, the company that makes fentinel, we've talked about this adnauseium. They're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in Arizona to try to uh stop the uh the medical or not even medical, they're trying to do recreational recreational marijuana from being passed in Arizona cuz they know that it's way

97:45cheaper, way easier, and way more effective pain relief. It's going to their creepy ass business. And guess what? No physical addiction properties. Some people get addicted to it, but they're the same people that get addicted to a lot of stuff, folks. And it doesn't mean there's like physical addictive properties to marijuana. There's not really a mechanism for you to get physically addicted to marijuana the way you can get physically addicted to painkillers. Look, even if there was, it's not the government's place to say you can't do this. Like, it's especially while they still have pain pills and they're taking money from these pain pills, right? Oh, it's so gross. What a mess, man. It's like just a like the the dream is like, man, can you imagine if the Republicans had come up with just a normal dude? Like if they just somehow come up with one normal guy, like a just a non religious

98:36nut and somebody who like doesn't have like a we checkered past just a kind of balanced guy who's like, "Well, we need to work on the economy." Like Mitt Romney without the Mormon Yeah, if they had just come up with that, they would have won by a long shot. A long shot. It's like this was the perfect chance for them to get somebody in, but it didn't happen. They couldn't do it. Like the whole their whole system was so screwy. It's sad, too, when you hear some of the rep cuz by the way, man, here's a news flash. Not all Republicans are bad. Like people think that. A lot of them have like some great ideas. Smaller government, not a bad idea. But when you like hear some of the frustration from like like my dad, man, he's a lifelong Republican. He's a a vet and he's, you know, he's like dismayed by all of this. Like he's he looks at it from the perspective of someone who's like seen so many

99:32different election cycles and to to look at like it boiling down to debates that have turned into the Jerry Springer show. literally like this is a guy who like spent two years in Vietnam by choice because like he thought he was going to fight for his country. So these things mean a lot uh to him. And it's like to see this barely at least in the debates that I've seen I don't you see barely anyone talking about the veterans. Like no one's talking about the fact that the VA is or that like some of these people aren't getting any of the uh medical care that they need. It's like crazy. They're up there talking about Trump grabbing or like Hillary Clinton's stupid foundation. What about the fact that like people are blowing their goddamn brains out all over neighborhoods across our country cuz they made the decision to like go over and fight in Iraq? And more

100:26people have killed themselves than have died serving. Yeah. What about that? Why are they more veterans have killed themselves than have been killed in war? Can you imagine? Like that's insane. I have never What are what is the numbers? I would like to know how much more it is. More veterans have committed suicide than have died in combat in these wars. That's that's that's unbelievably shocking. The fact that they don't talk about that at all. Hardly at all. And it's like to to just imagine like And by the way, here's another thing, man. One thing you don't hear about like we hear about like uh you know you hear about the uh you know you hear we do hear about PTSD a lot but like you I don't think people realize the impact that PTSD has on a family like the impact of your dad or your mom being completely closed off cuz like when you get PTSD you develop

101:22these crazy survival mechanisms so you try not to feel as much anymore. So, you get numbed down, you become an alcoholic, you become a drug addict, you you have difficulty expressing emotions, you're a mess, man. And like, uh, by the way, with all due respect, but you're not, you know, PTSD is a very difficult disorder to have, right? So, it's not just impacting the vet, it's the entire spreading out into the communities and the neighborhoods and And the fact that like uh I just imagine being in a family that's been God, that's so up. that suicide surpassed war. Make that a little larger, please, Jamie. Said they're 17 to 22 every day. Make that a little larger, please. Wow. Look at that, man. Jesus Christ. This is This is really incredible. 46% of the Look at this. The fighting in Iraq and Afghan Afghanistan accounted for anywhere from one out of three deaths in the military

102:16from 2005 to 2010 to more than 46% of the deaths in 2007 according to the height of the Iraqis. During the height of the Iraqi surge, more than 6,800 troops have died in Iraq and Afghanistan since 911 and more than 3,000 additional service members had taken their lives in the same time according to Pentagon data. Now, so keep going so we can find out where that's it. Wait a minute. Hold on a second then. Go back to the bottom of that, please. It says more than 6,800 troops have died in Iraq and Afghanistan and more than 3,000 additional service members have taken their lives. So, how is that the same amount? Go go go back up to the uh title. That doesn't make any sense to me. Is this a bad article? Suicide surpassed war as the military leading cause of death. That what that means is currently that doesn't mean like all told. I think this is an old article, dude. It's currently that which

103:08would you know, but still that's so dire, man. Yeah, this is a couple years old. Go and find a if you can please find a more recent because I think what they were saying is suicide Yeah. Suicide has caused more American casualties than wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. There it goes. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, what are the what are the numbers there? Jesus Christ. Veterans explore experts estimate that 17 out of the 22 daily suicides involving vets not enrolled in the VA's healthcare system. Jesus. 27,258 of those we honor for their service on this Veterans Day have died by their own hand. 27 thousand people. Whoa. What? That's from how many wars? How many how many years? Still a lot of people. It's unbelievable. Anyway, man, the whole thing. But it's not unbelievable, right? It's very believable. Like what a it's a an empty empty existence to be having sent over

104:17there when you're 17 years old and you're fighting for a war that a lot of people don't believe in. You wind up killing people you don't even know and you come back all up and PTSD out and then you don't get any help. Yeah. You don't get any any help because part of I think maybe part of PTSD is you don't want to reach out for help. So that's like part of the disorder is you're all numbed down. So like Yeah, man. Not to mention you have many of these people have brain trauma like they've got like there there's a lot of anyway I'm sure that if you're sitting in a like if you're in a family that's been impacted by that and you're watching the debates cuz you know for me like I I do I will I watch the debates as a form of entertainment. You know, to me it's kind of it's it's like there's something in it that's like grim yet hilarious and it's like interesting

105:05to see this kind of unraveling of our political system in this way. But man, it's like when you just spend a little bit of time thinking about how the whole machine is like impacting families in the most up way, man. A lot of kids, they don't know their dad has PTSD, you know? like they don't even know why their dad is drinking so much or is acting angry or unpredictable or seems up. They don't even know it. They just think that's how dad is. And then they like develop they begin to imitate that behavior, you know? And then the next thing you know, you've got like this like echo of this terrible thing that war is echoing out into into our uh communities and and and into our into everything, man. And it's just I imagine when you're watching the debates and you're realizing that these two people are spending I don't know what percentage of time talking about

106:01that. I don't know what the percentages exactly that they've talked about veterans at all. But you probably start getting really really really depressed when you're like well I guess that was just a bunch of that we did out there for real because these guys are barely talking about it. It's just a weird popularity contest for them to get into this position of power. That's all it is. They're saying whatever is popular in the moment. What's popular in the moment is grabbing and email scandals. I mean, that's that's what everybody seems to be focusing on because the war has been going on for so long that people almost got numb to it. And if you drudge that up, it's not going to get the same emotional sparks, the current event spark that we love. We love a current event spark. And right now, the current event spark is grabbing and email scandals. I went back

106:47and forth the other day during the debates um post debate from CNN to Fox News, CNN to Fox News, CNN to Fox News, just listening to the the different sides and how they talk about stuff. It's so bizarre. It's so bizarre. I mean, you never are more aware of the fact that you are being you propaganda is being projected in your way. Just blatantly unapologetic propaganda. The CNN people aren't even remotely considering the impact of her the her the controversy with the Clinton Foundation, her this Wikileak stuff that's come out about the bankers and her trying to keep marijuana an illegal drug and keep Americans imprisoned therefore because of it. None of that gets brought up. Nothing. Not a thing gets brought up. The idea that 30,000 emails were about yoga classes. How much does this take yoga, right? How is that even possible, dude? I've been doing jiu-jitsu for 20

107:52something years. Yeah, I don't think I have a thousand jiu-jitsu emails that I could delete, right? I don't even think I have a I might have a hundred. I might have a hundred or 200 jiu-jitsu emails that I could delete. How the is Hillary Clinton, non-physical Hillary Clinton with her bite suit on, that crazy space outfit on? How is she? You're trying to pretend that you're doing yoga all the time. Yeah, come on. That's insane. She's not doing yoga. Also, like this sinister thing they did. Apparently, John Kerry manipulated Ecuador into cutting off Assange's internet connection, you know? So, it's like on top of that, they just like shut him down. They're like, so like our country was able to manipulate another country to shut the internet connection off of a guy. It's like, you know, you hear about how like who's the new leader of Korea? It's Kim Jong-un, right? Ill

108:48was the first, the second. So like Kim Jong-un, the South Koreans, they like put propaganda weather balloons into North Korea and the I guess the North Koreans see this and they're like, "What the fuck?" And then like, you know, Kim Jong-un threatens to like shoot nuclear missiles into South Korea for distributing information. Like, hey, you guys are in a hell bubble over there. You know, the world's not really like that. They don't know that over there. So, in the same way, Assange has started like leaking this information to us. It's like, "Hey, check it out, man. Your politicians, this is how they work. This is how they work." And instead of us being like, "Whoa, let's reform this system. We got to reform this system, man. You can't do that." Like, even if it is above the board, like even if what you're doing is above the board in some kind of weird gray liinal legal area, it

109:39shouldn't be. It shouldn't be. let's fix it. Instead, we're like, ah, this is that Vladimir Putin trying to manipulate our elections, which by the way are not rigged. How could anyone say that when our politicians are so honest? Why would anybody say that the very thing that makes these honest people rise to power would be corrupt, too? So strange. So strange. So strange. So strange. And it's like to you know the the reaction we should all be having should not be like I don't know anger at Russia. The reaction we should be having is anger at our political class. You know, it should be and that was Assange's idea, right? That's his idea is like if we expose he wrote this essay, I read an article about it. You if we expose the inner workings of our political class and we show that that the level of deceitfulness that is involved in this game of chess, which now people are just

110:40saying, well, that's just the way it works. That's how it works in the modern world. you've got to be cutthroat and you've got to lie and you've got to trick and you've got to do all this If we expose them, then what that hopefully is supposed to do is make them reform on their own or create what he called a the idea is you want it to be very expensive to lie. You want to you want to and you and also he's created a situation where all of them are living in a terrible world of paranoia which I think is kind of hilarious because like Assange has done to Hillary Clinton what the NSA has done to all of us you know like they've he has all this data and she doesn't know which data he has. She doesn't know what he's got. A lot of politicians have no idea what Wikileaks has. That's the strategy behind I think that's the strategy behind the trickling release of this

111:31information is because it's like the Japanese water torture little drops so that every day they have to sit and think, "Fuck, man, they did they get those pictures from the Bohemian Grove." You know what the uh the rumors are, right? Do you know the rumors about the release that there's going to be a bomb dropped on November 1st? That's the super awesome conspiracy rumor deluxe of the day. Wow. that on November 1st, uh, anonymous Wikileaks Guy Fox himself, someone is going to drop some huge information bomb that's going to make Hillary Clinton like there the the rumor, of course, amongst conspiracy theorists going to disqualify for the the election. I don't even know if that's possible at this point because she got away with that email scandal Like, that email stuff would have put anybody else in jail, right? I mean, there's a I I posted something on Twitter the other day about a soldier

112:26who took photographs with his camera on his phone of some inner workings of a submarine and he's going to jail because of it. Just took photographs of it. Um what she did was infinitely worse. They're both government officials. That soldier Yeah. and Hillary Clinton are both government employees, right? The only difference being, of course, she's elected. Yeah. That's it. I mean, other than that, I mean, he works for the government. He's but his responsibility to adhere to the rules has way more consequence than hers. What she did with those emails like no one is no one is denying that it was illegal. No one is saying it was fine and heard crazy talk about it being 30,000 yoga emails just exacerbates the whole thing. It's like listen. They're going to find out it wasn't really yoga and then what? Then what are you going to say? What are you going to say? Yeah, there were some yoga

113:18emails. There was two of them. There's two yoga emails and then there's 28,000 about Benghazi. Right. Right. Then then what happens? There's 28,000 about using drones on Julian Assange. I mean, she wanted to drone him. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think I mean, by the way, joking. I'm not defending either of these creeps. They're creepy to me. Both of them give me the heebie-jebies, man. But like, I do not Julian Assange. You're talking about Trump and Hillary, right? No, I'm talking about that monster Julian Assange. We creeps. No, I'm kidding. No, that would be the worst thing. I love him. I I have a plan to to help Julian Assange escape. I think I know a way to get him out of that embassy if he wanted to leave. Like, I know how you could do it cuz you know, you see him. So, here's what I would do. So, like, you know, you see him come out to that little balcony and

114:09like kind of look out in the sad way like he doesn't have an internet. sucks. Yeah. So, here's what you do. Schedule one of those flash mobs where I don't know 10,000, 20,000, 30,000. I'm putting my life on the line here. Please Clinton and Trump don't kill me for saying this. I only want everyone to love a window of love. Get like 10,000 people to gather around that embassy wearing that Guy Fox ma mask, the anonymous mask. They're all wearing the anonymous mask and certain outfits. Are you Do you have a side business in anonymous masks? What do you have a guy fox business? If you just go to dunussell.com, you can buy a guy fox mask. It goes to my foundation. But so, so the uh the idea is you get them to gather around it in some kind of mask and dress like Julian Assange and then just throw him a mask. So he like jumps out into this mob of people all dressed like him wearing this

115:01Guy Fox mask and just vanishes into the crowd. Oh, that's a movie. That's Mission Impossible Science. I Yeah, I think it would work. I think cuz he's got access to the balcony. It means he could get down. You just got to pop a ladder up real quick. Everyone's dressed like an Everyone looks like Assange with the anonymous mask on. Yeah, look at that. Pop right off of that balcony. That balcony is so close. So close. Just dive into a sea of people dressed in the anonymous masks and get just vanish into time. Shave your head. Get a face tattoo. How does that guy sleep? I mean, wouldn't you be freaked out? The the fact that his door is that close to the the I mean, that's where the door is. That's where the ground is, right? Anybody could just jump up there and climb in. Yeah. This guy is hated hated by some of the biggest world leaders ever. That's his little tiny

115:49balcony. You live in a little equid a little embassy in the middle. Yeah. It sucks. In London and he has to stay in that building because when he's in that building, he's on foreign soil and they can't invade. It is insane. And he's been there for four years. Four years not going outside. You know how that guy sleeps? He sleeps like a hero. When that guy goes to bed, he goes to bed in the way that somebody who's like, I'm actually trying to help my species go. You see him dance? I know. Pull that up. You do this anytime we talk about pull up Julian's dancing. No, there's nothing wrong with him. Nothing wrong with this. He's just you you have to when you see someone dance like this, you have to always think, "Oh yeah, that guy dances like this. Dances like a goth. He's a goth." Yeah. I mean, there's nothing wrong with dancing like that. There's nothing wrong

116:39with dancing like that. But you got to be aware of everything. That's something to be aware of. This is how Massage dances. And he dances by himself like this. So that's another thing. It's not just He's moving out into the dance floor and he's dancing by himself. Now, now let's let's be honest. He could easily be on drugs, in which case this is all forgivable behavior. He's definitely on drugs. He may be on ecstasy right now or Molly or he might be stoned out of his mind on some pot cookies or on acid or something, but he's he's dancing in a very very strange way. It's a goth dance. He's doing a goth gothic dancing. No, there's nothing wrong with it, man. Look, I dance strange. She's weird. Check out my other videos. I mean, people are weird, you know? There's nothing wrong with dancing weird, but you should know that. Listen, man. Because of you, whenever I hear

117:30anything about Julian Assange, I do think about that dance video, which, God forbid you, my dancing. God forbid. Yes, there's nothing wrong with the way he dances. I'm kid, you know, if people think people know you're joking. People don't, man. People don't. I put up a a thing today about uh flat earth and people thought that I was like serious about the flat earth. I put put up this thing on Instagram about all the the evidence that you're being brainwashed and uh one of them is if you really believe that the sun is millions of miles away how to tell if you're brainwashed. Do you believe the earth is spinning at 1,000 miles an hour but you can't feel it? You believe the oceans are curving because gravity in air quotes but you can't measure it. You believe ships disappearing over the horizon are proof of the globe and not due to perspective. You believe that

118:15pilots would not have to account for the earth's curvature or spin while flying. Yeah, man. This is so I got to tell you though, man. Once I was getting I I was like I was getting a massage and the massage therapist was a flatearther. Oh no. And it was the best. I mean it's like what's better? It's like I'm you know talking massages sometimes suck but like this is like What did she say? What was funny about it is as she's like explaining flat earth theory to me, I wanted to argue with her. And then I realized my understanding of cosmology is so terrible that I couldn't come up with a persuasive argument against it cuz it's like, well, the conspiracy argument is the best because you would think that everybody would have to be in on it. Everybody who's ever been a part of space travel, whether it's the Russians or the Chinese or the Americans, anyone who has ever been an astrophysicist has

119:08asked to be in on it. That's like one of the best conspiracy. What was that was? Was someone saying I was a sellout because uh because of my flat earth hate and we know where your checks are being cashed. They're being cashed for saying I'm getting like I'm getting shut up money from the round earth the the the round earth shield fund. I'd love I'd love to see that meeting. That's a fund. I'd love to see that meeting where like you and Susman are sitting with like these reptilians and they're like, "Listen, Joe, you know the earth is flat. We know the earth is flat." Dangle the check in front of you and they go, "The earth is." And you go, "Round, sir." And you take the check. Yes. Round. Next. Next. Next. Yeah, that's George Clooney coming here. Let me ask you something. Is for real. For real. For real. For real, man. For real, bro. If you knew the earth was flat, like some I

120:06don't know how you knew like like Dana White and or the people who run the UFC, they're like, "Look, man. It actually I'd be the first to tell you. Okay, but I'd be broadcasting it from the roof. Let's say you knew the earth was flat. It's flat. Don't go too far. But let's say the Lizards did visit. Let's say they did visit you. What's your price to be a shill? 50 bucks. What? 50. 50. 50 is a good meal somewhere. Get a steak, glass of wine. I don't ask a lot. I don't want to die. Look, you guys are lizards. You're lizard people. You're all powerful. You're going to run this thing anyway. Just 50 bucks. You don't want You don't want them to think you're unreasonable. Oh, he wants $50 million. Or we just eat him, dude. I like fishing this stuff out of you because it spawns YouTube videos. I think it's really funny of me being a Satanist. Yeah, cuz now someone Illuminati confirmed. Well,

120:55you guys are Illuminati cuz you did that thing at the UFC. We are illumin I am Illumin I am in the Illuminati. I didn't even know. I am in the Illuminati. It's great, man. Is it good? Do you get good benefits? What benefits? Yeah. Okay. Tell me later. What? Tell me later about the benefits maybe. I don't know. Don't Don't ask me. What about numerology? Is that real? Yes. Oo, interesting. Masonry. What? Are you a mason? A Freemason? Yes. Is there any other kind you guys? You and Ari, that guy behind pyramids and then you kissed. Yeah, the kissing part was probably one of the greatest moments in UFC history. Yeah, that was great, man. Oh Can I tell you something? I just found out. Okay, man. This is actually really cool. You should research this. Did I tell you about the Cacophony Society? No. What's that? Okay, man. So, the guys who like at least partially started Burning Man were

121:50called the Cacophony Society. And it was this group of people that do the funniest things together. And it's really in fascinating. They call it culture jamming, but like uh for example, they do this. Have you ever heard of the salmon run? No. What's that? They dress up in m giant salmon outfits and run the wrong way in races. That's hilarious, dude. They run towards the crowd. They run just the where the opposite direction. So you'll see a marathon and these salmon are running like that. There it is. That is so funny. That's so funny. That's the cacophony. They're running upstream. They're high-fiving people and people let them go through. They're not mad. That's good. That's the cacophony society, man. They uh That's funny, man. But these are the guys who started Burning Man and Chuck Palan. That's where he got the inspiration for Fight Club because he was Burning Man. No, the

122:43Cacophony Society cuz he was in the Cacophony Society. He was he's one of them. But like the their motto is you may already be a member and anybody can start their own branch. But it's like really really funny. Like if you look up all the stuff they've done, man, it's really trippy. Like they set a they uh one of the things they did was they set up clowns at every stop along a bus route so that every time the bus picked people up it picked up a new clown but the clowns wouldn't acknowledge each other like they just happen to be getting on the same bus. How strange. It's cool though because what it like I mean I'm not going to try to get into their uh their theory about it because they actually have a pretty deep philosophical like or it seems to be a fairly deep philosophy. A lot of it's really hard to understand for me but uh doism is part of it and this concept of this thing called the

123:38zone actually hockey bay's temporary autonomous zone is kind of related to this idea that you can create these little bubbles that temporarily sort of uh where the normal rules of society just don't exist in that moment. And so people who get to be in that bubble with you get to experience a kind of respit from the neverending flow of society which can produce like huge changes in a person's life to suddenly no longer be afflicted with the humrum normal day-to-day uh materialistic consumerristic that we call everyday life to create a tiny little bubble where that doesn't exist and where you're like there are two rules they don't I don't know if you even call them rules but their rules are you don't do a cacophinist event for money and you don't do it to promote your religion. So, you're doing this for no reason other than like subversions for subversion's sake. So, there's no the

124:35the profit that you're getting from it is just the incredible moment that you find yourself in a salmon outfit running the opposite way. But what it does is it temporarily disrupts the hypnotic trance that a lot of people are in. like when they're living, you know, you're just And this is on by design. That's what they're trying to do or they're just having fun. It looks like they're just having fun running against the the crowd of marathon runners and they're in salmon outfits. Yeah, that it is for fun, but then there's like theory behind it. So, so they've actually like this is something that they've written out and contemplated and acted on. There's a great book called Tales of the Cacophony Society that I'm reading that's so funny. How long have they been around for? Uh they've been around since the they were they're pre Burning Man. So I guess they've been around for like

125:24mid 80s or something like that. And prior to that there was something called the Suicide Club which was or they're an offshoot of this group in San Francisco called the Suicide Club which was like an actual secret society that if you wanted to be a member, you had to get your affairs in order like you were going to commit suicide. Wa. Yeah. It's really cool. And like but yeah, really cool. But uh but then the the Cacophony Society sort of emerged. Their history is hilarious though. The history of them is so funny. And like if you look at like the early Burning Man that the cacophinists were involved in. Holy They had like a drive by shooting range. So like they would like drive in cars blasting at targets. Dude, they were launching flaming pianos out of catapults out in the middle of the desert. Like, oh my god. Like, they were And people are getting hurt, man. Like, I wonder why.

126:23Yeah, but like they were they they were like, you know, they were badass. And it sounds like if Hunter S. Thompson started a religion. Exactly. That's a great way to put it. And and I'll tell you, man, he probably knew of them. And if he didn't know of them, he would have been like, "Oh, I'm one of them." And like, can you be You can be one of them. You don't have to even join up. You start your own. We started a branch. When? Today, right? When did we start one? Well, we just started a second branch. I started a branch. We we I say I we well, it's called the Ukrainian branch of the LA Cacophony Society. And we uh Why Ukrainian? What? Why Ukrainian? Well, we had the last meeting. We had our we So, we had our final meeting at Gelson's on Hyperion. So, you guys have meetings? Well, we had our last meeting. So, we had the final meeting. How many meetings did you have all told? one.

127:14Who's we? Me and a bunch of people. I just put it out on Twitter. Who are the people? Me, Brendan Walsh, uh, and then like a a group of like some other people from Burning Man who I know, and then just some people who responded to the tweet, but we b You guys all met at Gellson's in pajamas. We met at We met at Gellson's that we met at the Gellson's noshing and embibing bar in pajamas. Oh my god. And then uh and then we did uh we we did uh so what we the plan was we met there, we had drinks and it was automatically the most it was so weird driving to do it. Like I I'm like, "Well, you definitely have lost your mind, man. You're out of your mind." Like this cacophony idea. It's crazy. I don't know why you're doing this. So I I uh I ended up uh thinking like, you know, I feel you feel crazy driving and pajamas. So, we uh we you get there and all of a

128:08sudden the people at the bar are looking like what the is happening? Like suddenly there's this group of people standing at the bar in pajamas and then uh and then what do your pajamas look like? I wore Captain America pajamas. So, yeah, Duncan. But but then so then I so then uh but then what we did is Brendan Walsh uh cuz like he was the like we had him give this speech, you know, cuz like I was like everybody I don't want the this meeting our final meeting to be caught up and how Brendan Walsh ruined uh the Ukrainian branch of the LA cacophony society. So let's just not think about that. And then he gives a speech and he reads the entirety of Tiger Woods cheating apology that he has. So suddenly this dude in pajamas is reading Tiger Wood's cheating apology in front of a group of people in pajamas who whenever Brendan would say one of like Tiger's weird apologies, everyone would

129:05applaud and then shush ourselves at the same time. So it's like claps and like sh let him talk, let him talk. And so and then we sang we sang Do you want to build a snowman from Frozen? And then we left. Perfect. Do you film it? Well, we have some. Yeah, we have Did you have a film a film of this? I have a film of it. I'll send it to you. I don't know where it's not online, but but yeah, man. That's what we did. Wear pajamas or bathroes. We will tell stories of the good times our society shared. Offer final toasts and sing do you want to build a snowman? Meet at noshing and embibing the Gelson's bar. Holy Bring sleeping bags. Yeah, dude. That is so ridiculous. It It was It was really great. We're going to do another meeting though. We're going to have You are Well, yeah. We're going to have a meeting of the new uh the the new branch the new Ukrainian branch of the LA Kakov

130:01Society, but we haven't figured out what that is yet. But why is it Ukrainian? What? Why Ukrainian? Well, I don't know. Who the knows? They have to be the whole point of the thing though, which is really beautiful there. So like cuz I got on the all this happened because like I realized like okay well Burning Man was the coolest thing I ever experienced and then I traced that back to the Cacophony Society and then I kept hearing this guy's name John Law. John Law. John Law. So like I found him and uh I emailed him and then he just wrote back like yeah just call me. Here's my number. And then I called him and then he we we started talking about how he like what the events were like and he said the main thing about it is an inclusivity. He's like, "This is what makes it so cool is that we like the if you really form a branch, this is more of an experiment, but if you really do

130:51it, then everybody who decides to participate, they uh they come up with their own events, you know?" So, like everyone's like, "All right, we're going to be doing this next Tuesday. If you want to come, come. If you don't, don't come. The following Tuesday, we're going to be doing this." But there's no like pushing people out. It's like if whoever wants to be involved, let them be involved. And then everyone kind of gathers together in this little weird bubble that forms which is like dude when you're in pajamas at Gellson's watching people. It's what we were talking about earlier. What is the sane way to live? Right? So when you're in Gellson's wearing pajamas singing do you want to build a snowman and you look out and people are kind of like walking with their shoulders down to buy their evening groceries and they're just kind of like look over at you. They get the

131:34biggest smile on their face. They don't know what's happening. We don't know what's happening, but it feels so cool. It's like a really like exciting moment of like really minor rebellion that has no impact ultimately in the flow of society, but in that tiny moment, it's like, we're in zero gravity here, man. Yeah. I mean, a coordinated effort like that with a bunch of people in pajamas singing, "Do you want to build a snowman?" out of nowhere would make everybody smile. Yeah. It's one of those like what in the are these guys doing? Yeah. And dude, you'd look over because like it was right next to the deli. So like people were like sitting at the deli pretending to like be eating their dinner, but they kept looking over at like Brendan giving the Tiger Wood speech. But that's the other that that that's the other cool idea that they came up with, man, which was

132:25um it's like the way we do entertainment right now is so weird because it's like and and I guess thank God for it cuz it's our jobs, but like people pay a cover and they go in and there's the audience that sits and the audience and the and the comedian that talks or the entertainer that talks and there's this weird distance between the two and it's like so that relationship between entertainer and entertained Their idea is like, let's merge it together so that we're entertaining each other for no reason other than like let's just get together and like see what happens, you know? Now, this was a non-risisky thing. Like a lot of their thing is like elevate the risk. Elevate the risk. Elevate the risk to to the the more you elevate the risk, the more it's like a crucible kind of that really brings people together, which is I think the idea of taking people out to the

133:15desert originally. It's like, let's just take a group of these people, launch flaming pianos with a catapult. Yes. I want to bring up before I forget, Brendan Walsh. One of my favorite stunts that he did. This is this gives you an indication of what kind of sense of humor he has. He put a fake Whole Foods sign in Silverlake. Yeah. He wanted people to think that a Whole Foods was coming to Silver. I mean, there might be one now, but he did this a long time ago. And there was a lot. It was an empty lot. So, he had a sign made with the Whole Foods logo. Put coming soon on it. Yeah. There it is. And he set it up on the fence and people were so psyched. Yep. That is Brendan Walsh, man. That's what his sense of humor is like. It's so cool. And dude, he uh he um that's why when I read this book, look at this right there. Look at the top of it. Did the Silver Lake Whole Foods Hulk

134:08prankster reveal his plans on a podcast? Oh, he did it on uh What the with Mark Maron? That's when he uh he revealed it, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. He's so funny. He's so funny, man. He's such a trip. He's so And dude, he commits to this. The other thing that he does is he fully commits to this and like like I mean I'm not saying like he does a lot of stuff and he doesn't care if people know. And that is to me another really cool thing about him. He's a funny comic, too. He's a funny dude. Allaround funny dude. like funny dude for that kind of Just the way his mind works. What did he do recently? He he went up somewhere. I want to say it's the improv maybe. And he had them introduce him as one of his friends. He went up and he did that guy's act. He told that guy's jokes. He pretended he was him. That's so good. He's so silly. So silly. Yeah. And he commits 100%, man. Cuz like when you're

135:06standing in pajamas and a goddamn Gson's reading Tiger Woods 10minute cheat speech and you don't back down, it's cool. But anyway, yeah, Tales for the Cacophony Society. You guys look into it, man, cuz it's pretty cool. And anyone can form a branch. Anyone listening, you can start your own branch. You could just do it and it's really fun. Sounds like fun. I don't know about the Ukrainian thing, though. Well, why? They might have copyright on that. You might not be able to call something Ukrainian. That was our last meeting, so it doesn't matter. Okay. Well, you've resolved your differences with the Ukraine, so we'll let it go. Yeah, it's over. You know, you were um talking about Burning Man before the podcast. We were on the phone. We were talking about it. And I said, "Dude, we shouldn't even talk about it until we talk about it on the podcast, right?"

135:48Because you were you were ranting about Burning Man as if you had seen the Messiah. You found Utopia. No, it wasn't an ear beating at all. No, it was great. You're Look at that picture. That's amazing. Isn't that cool? like right that that right behind that is uh right behind that is this incredible just neverending field of art. So be that those lights are all LED lights shining on the art that people are spending all year building for no other reason than to bring it out there and give people like just be beautiful art. Like that I had no idea it was so lit up. Oh my god. I mean that you can't c the crazy thing about Burning Man is you can't capture it in pictures. It's like you've just got to go there because if you see the pictures it kind of seems ridiculous or dusty or whatever, but my god, man. We should do a documentary. Has anybody done a documentary on Burning Man? Yeah. Yeah.

136:47There's there's tons of people who come there, but we should do a documentary on it. Dude, how about this? How about just a like we should take someone to Burning Man that would never go to Burning Man. I have an idea. You just come. That's all. No documentary. You just come and we'll spend a week having fun there because dude, you like here's an example. This is one of my favorite places there that it's called. There's a So, it's all free bars. Like, there's just bars. People put up free bars. It's free booze. Nothing. No, you can't buy anything there. So, one of the uh bars, and forgive me if I if I say the title wrong, cuz now it's a little fuzzy in my mind. It was my favorite bar, and it was called the something like the Ministry of Disinformation, but it's set up to look like an information booth. And so we're riding by these you ride around bicycles. My friends who

137:36have been there forever, they're like, "Dude, go to that bar." And they'll just lie to you. Like that's all they do. The bartenders just lie to you. That's hilarious. So like you go there and you like So like you sit and they're so good at lying to the point where cuz everyone knows that they lie. So people come there to get lied to. And so like you go there to get lied to, but they know everyone knows that they're lying and they lull you in to thinking they're done with the lying part, right? So like we're sitting there drinking. Me and me and Cory are sitting there drinking and like you know the guy's like li made some pretty obvious lies and then we're drinking. He's like hey so we it really feels like oh yeah okay now we're just talking like friends. He's like so hey do you you guys want to try some uh vodka that like uh I homebrew and we're like yeah we'd love to try some. And so

138:21like he pours it and we drink it and and he we're like wow this is actually really good man. You should you could probably sell this stuff. Like are you going to start selling it? It's like, "Yeah, yeah, we're uh we worked out a deal with uh South Korea. You uh slap an American flag on anything out there and they'll buy anything." And we're like, "Wait, wait. Oh, wait. You're still lying to us. Like, you didn't make this vodka. You're just lying." He's like, "No, I'm serious. I'm serious. Look, look, look." Then he pulls his phone up and there's pictures of like this is the still that I used to build it and it's this ridiculous still that like definitely definitely isn't like a still like something from the Dukes of Hazard. Yeah. Yeah. And then you realize like oh my And then you're like you you're still lying like you haven't been telling the truth. And

139:05he's like listen man I'm not good at lying. Like I just like my friends do this thing. Like I come here I'm not good at lying. I just tell the truth when I'm up here and like other people will lie to you here but I definitely don't do that. So they go deep and they commit and it's but it's it's not malicious. It's really both are it's a very funny thing and that's one tiny little part of it. Like imagine that spread out over and over and over and over again with just different types of like bars or art. Imagine like let's say and you know I don't take psychedelics and if I talk about it on the podcast I do it as a joke because I want to seem cool but imagine if you were in the middle of the desert on psychedelics that had just started kicking in on your bicycle covered in LED lights surrounded by other people and blinking LED lights on their bicycles and you're sitting in front of

140:00what appears to be a massive brass what is either a locust uh firefly some kind of grasshopper cricket sculpture on top of another cricut sculpture that has combustible gas exploding out of it. So that it's and it's like 10 ft 15 ft high with combustible gas exploding out of it. So it's making this Elon Musk has the dopest ride there. He's got a yacht that like just goes around through Burning Man and and like he has discos on it, right? Yeah. and anyone can get on. That's the other thing about it, man, is it's like this is it's the idea of the thing is it's pure inclusivity. That's the idea is it's like this is just everybody sharing. There you go. That's so crazy. Just rides through the desert. You climb on, they'll give you they'll give you drinks. You just like chill out. It's like the whole thing is like a gifting economy is what they call it. So like

140:58everyone's just giving stuff to each other. Sounds amazing. It's the best. It really truly is the best. So here's here's the question. Can this go from here to uh a city? Can can can you develop a city like this? Well, they they do have so like I think the answer to that is right now probably not. But you because it's resourcebased because it's like it's more like okay imagine like a flower that once a year blooms, right? So that's what you could say that's maybe what Burning Man is is like dur during the year lots of people are like getting together and planning like what they're going to I'm I'm planning with my Burning Man camp the Enchanted Booty Forest. We're planning our uh art car for next year. And that's going to take all year to figure out what it's going to be and how to do it and how to put it together and how to get the money. I told you you spent too

141:51much time with Bernie man. You fried your brain. It's become your life now. It's every year is just downtime. Downtime downtime. Burning Man. Well, no. I mean, I will say I mean I know it. It truly is the most embarrassing thing. I know I sound like that guy in that brilliant YouTube video that someone made paring the ear beatings that Burning Man people give their friends. Have you seen that? No. Oh, please pull this up. No, we can't play it. We'll get yanked. Oh my god. Look up So, look up look up the YouTube video. So, how was Burning Man? And it's like this guy in goggles and Burning Man attire being like, "How was Burning Man? You're gonna ask me how wasn't Burning Man is a better question. It's everything." Cuz you really do. Like when you're there, you're like, "Oh my god." Yeah, that guy just like ranting to his girlfriend. That's what you turned into. He's got

142:43the goggles on, those dirt goggles, which I guess you have to have. Did you wear them like uh Mad Max? You have to wear them because the there these dust storms kick up and like but I'll tell you man, how crazy is that? You have to wear dust goggles. Here's the craziest thing about it though. All that being said, there's a place there called the temple and it's all these are like a lot of these are built by like genius architects. The temple I can't remember how much it they said it cost to build like it might have been like 75,000 or 750,000. I can't remember. It's this incredible like you can pull it up. Look up the temple burning man 2016. Uh or you can look at all the different versions there. There there. That's it. So you So everyone's like so everyone's like go to the temple and but it's really heavy when you go there. So we didn't even know what they were

143:34talking about. So you pedal in and you see people standing in front like people seem to be crying, people are hugging each other. Dude, you go into that thing and it's filled with pictures of people who've died that year before. Baby clothes, pictures of dogs, pictures of like it's where people go to burn their the to grieve for people who've died in their lives, man. And so you walk into that place and this is in the middle of this incredible festival. You walk into that place, man, and like you just you start you just start crying like people in there because you can feel this like just nexus of grief bubbling up and it's the most intense cra the only time I've ever felt that kind of energy is in a place called Varonasi in India where they like burn bodies there. It's that same kind of like sweet grief of people mourning. But then that's the last thing they burn at

144:29Burning Man. And whoever's left when they burn it, which is probably like 60,000 50,000 people, they all sit around it completely silently. They sit around it silently. You might hear someone playing a flute in the distance or something, but it's just imagine 50,000 people sitting around that thing on fire quietly as embers of all these pictures of people who've died the year before go or who whenever they've died go flying through the air. And then when it finally burns to the ground, the entire group of people, they howl like dogs. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the end of Burning Man. Holy Yeah, dude. So cool. Well, this is growing at a staggering rate every year. What's to stop these people from claiming a city? Like, if everybody just decided like, "Hey, let's all move to Portland." If all those people that are Burning Man type folks just decided to try to have

145:27the same sort of impact on a community. Yeah. That's not outside the realm of possibility, right? Well, it's already happening, right? Where is it happening? Well, it's happening wherever there's people who've been influenced by that festival who come back into the world and try to not be such selfish when they're in the world or maybe try not to waste so much stuff or like it's also happening cuz you like realize like oh this is not only a festival this is preparing for the possible economic collapse because if we can all get together and survive in the desert in this way and work together then there is a possibility you know actually I went to see Alex and Allison Gray they were painting at the Dr. Bronner's camp. They're painting a mural there. Dr. Bronner's soap. Hemp soap. Dr. Bronner has a camp there called Reo. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Bronner's soap. They have a camp

146:13there called Reformationation, right? And so they basically are just hosing down all these filthy like Burning Man people out in the desert to clean them up, right? So, like uh after they hose them down, there's a uh they've constructed a tent where there's a DJ playing music and it's dripping water down and everyone's naked dancing and Alex and Allison Gray are painting this beautiful mural in that tent. And so, like we, you know, Cor and I went to visit them and we walked up and like, you know, those guys are so cool, man. But then Alex like starts was talking to me and he's like, "You know what this is, right?" And I'm like, "What do you mean?" He's like, "Dr. Bronner's family was in Ashwitz where they had the showers." And so this is the opposite of the showers at Ashwitz because it's like naked people in real showers dancing to music in this like super loving environment. So,

147:13their idea was to mirror the Holocaust or to create like not that you could do that, but to create like some like a response to it that was like here's what it could look like. Instead of gassing people, there could be a DJ dripping. Yeah, that's what they do. They spray you down. But anyway, man. Um uh yeah, like you know, one of the things uh Alex Gray was saying is like uh this is the seed of a global civilization. Well, it seems to be it seems to be that there's something going on, man. There's a shift. There's a consciousness shift. I mean, there's there's far reaches on both sides. I mean, there's people that are resisting it hardcore. There's a lot of hardcore Trump fans that are resisting, you know, illegal immigrants and they want they want they want hardcore like Republican values. There's a a lot of people that are like still clinging to that. But then there's a lot

148:02of people that were going the Bernie Sanders ray way, too. Yeah. And there's a lot of people that are realizing while you watch these two duke it out like King Kong versus Godzilla. What's interesting is the real loser is the system itself. Our confidence in the system, our confidence in the system is at an all-time low. And people that are your age and older people like me, I'm 49. What are you 43 now? 42. 42 now. We we're considered we're like middle-aged folks. I mean, whether we like it or not. But the we grew up with no internet and then we were exposed to the internet and now we're seeing things like Wikileaks. The kids of today, they're going straight Wikile links from high school, right? They they knew about that in high school. They they watch all the videos in high school. Those are the ones that I get the most upset about when someone posts a video about the

148:52flat earth or any kind of stupid where you're going to waste a lot of time paying attention to nonsense, right? Not the world's goddamn round. They have a lot of video of it. You can go around it in a satellite. You can go around in a jet. It's not a hoax. Stop thinking about that. It's a waste of time. There's a lot of other to concentrate on. But you'll get lost in that. You'll get lost in that. That upsets me. That that pisses me off and I've been responsible for it myself. I'm sure on this podcast we said a lot of that turned out not be true. Certainly. But it's but you know it's usually our obsessions are temporary. But I think I like what you said that the system kind of short changing itself. It reminds me of uh I just watched it's on Netflix now. It's Louis Thru's uh Crazy Weekend, I think is what it's called. And you saw the one with Al Sharpton. Yes. And he's talking to Al

149:42Sharpton and he's like, "I feel like I let you down by not getting arrested." And Al Sharpton's response was, "You let yourself down by not getting arrested." And and and uh and and then at the end of I don't want to do a spoiler, but spoiler. You know what, man? Now I'm thinking I don't I don't didn't see that one. I've seen I saw a bunch of them. I binge watched before he came on the first time. the the uh this episode is about uh black what are they black power people blacks I don't know I don't black lives matter no it's like that this is like Nation of Islam this is like pe like the one of the guys Louis was hanging out with was like a hardcore like black he hated white people white people are the devil you're the devil like uh but he was actually really sweet at the same time you know he's like really smart too this is a guy I can't remember his name Dr. Khaled. Uh

150:32he he actually um I looked him up cuz I was really wanting to like follow him on Twitter, but he died of an aneurysm. But whoa, what a crazy hardcore charismatic guy who wants like the United States to give back a swath of land to to black people so that they can go live there. And like but you know, Louis Thu is such a likable guy that you could see that they were both kind of liking each other when they weren't. You know what I And it was really sweet to watch and really cool, but you could also see that he was being moved by recognizing how much a lot of these people have gone through and how up it could be. And this is before any of this happened with the recent police shootings. This was another police shooting in 2001 and they were going to go march about and and Sharpton was going to get arrested. But then so anyway, like yeah, like Sharpton was like, "You you let yourself down by

151:26not being part of this, by not getting arrested." It's like it's it's true, man. While these people are up there fighting like those goddamn cats that the crow lured into a fight, while they're up there debating and fighting and and we're our eyes are fixated on that, we can easily lose track of all the stuff that we have definite control over, which is we don't need to uh we don't need to be so selfish. You don't need to be so selfish. And if you start experimenting with giving stuff away, cuz you you guaranteed, man, there is stuff that you have that you don't need. You literally don't need like in your garage that you covet kind of like there's you covet that you don't need. You're not going to use or you have like a hoarder mentality where you're like, well, I might sell it one day or who knows, I'm going to definitely need this vibrating bed one day or whatever the thing is you

152:16have. You don't need it. So, you could do an experiment where you try to give it away. not to a not to a charity or foundation, but you figure out someone in your community who maybe needs that thing for real, like someone who could actually use it. It doesn't have to be some lofty thing either. Maybe you got like an old Xbox in your garage and your friend doesn't have an Xbox. Give your friend the Xbox just for fun. You could do these little experiments and when you do it, wow, it feels good. It like is a really great feeling to start offloading you don't need into the community of friends and family and people around you who are some people really need stuff, man. And like it won't hurt you at all. And so that that to me is like when you talk about well can we could Burning Man turn into a civilization? I don't know. Probably not. like you know who um well I won't

153:10say who it is but one of my friends was out there and he works out there and I'm like not high on psychedelics but I'm looking around and I know he's been going there for a long time and I'm like could this become society and he's like no he's like if these people were out here for more than four weeks they'd start killing each other now whether we're not ready for that yet we're ready for a couple weeks at a time couple weeks at a time but But it's only 52 in a year. Yeah. And and in the meantime, you can actually just kind of start experimenting with not being selfish. Yeah. Or how about instead of looking at a ne as a negative, just experiment with being generous. Ah, there you go. Yeah. So, think of generosity as the ability to drop little love bombs, you know? That's that's how I've always tried to approach it. Do it, man. Those aren't little love

154:01bombs you leave. I've seen, not to like, I've seen some weeping waitresses when I turn back to look as you're walking away, man. And like that thing that you're doing there. Um, that thing that you're doing, that's it. Like that thing, everyone can do that. You don't have to be the host of the UFC to be able to you you so like it. God, forgive me. It burned. This is I tried to explain this to someone who was saying that it was a stupid thing to do. I was like you you have to think of you know they were saying that like they're going to expect it uh every time a rich person goes there. They're going to expect larger tips and it's really not proportionate to the service they've given you. But you can make someone happy. It makes them happy and you don't feel the difference. The difference between you leaving a one number on a check for a tip and they go, "Oh, that

154:55was a good tip." or another one, they go, "Holy shit." Like now they feel really good. Like they just got a gift. Like that's what the tip thing is. The tip thing is a gift. That's it. I mean, that's it's one of the rare things that we have in our culture where you could express gratitude in a numerical amount. I mean, I'm not saying that's the only way to express gratitude because of course there's a way to express it with your words and your, you know, your love and all that good stuff, but you can express gratitude in a tip form where you you there's a number you can attach to it. Yeah, like someone if you have a if the bill is 50 bucks and you leave 50 bucks, people go, "Holy shit." And to a lot of people, the difference between $100 in your bank and $50 in your bank is not really you're probably not going to feel that. For some people, you will,

155:40but you will, but you know, I was just if you can do it. I went to visit my dad in Florida and uh my girlfriend and I, we went to this uh arcade that gives out tickets, like one of those arcades that dispenses tickets. You know what I'm talking about? Like Uhhuh. you play ski ball or whatever. You like It's like a a little It's like a casino for babies, right? So it prints these tickets out. You take the tickets to the counter and you get like a piece of thing that you'll never use. It's like a nasty like bear made of like Chinese asbestous or something, you know? So like the exchange is dumb. Anyway, so these tickets, we ended up acrewing this massive pile of tickets, right? And so we're standing there looking at this junk and then I look down and I'm sure other people out there have done this. There's like a kid who's got a tiny little bit of tickets

156:30and he's like looking at like the candy that the little bit of tickets and I'm like, "Hey kid, take this." gave him this huge stack of tickets. Dude, the look on that kid's face and him and his brother like, "Oh my god, that you know that look is way more valuable than any kind of piece of behind the counter." Right. Of course, that is the essence of it, man. It's like the the the the when you drop these love bombs off, this is not a one-sided thing. You're walking away feeling really good because you know what you just did? You impacted a person's week. This this person might not have money to get their kids groceries that week, man. Now they do. They might not have been able to make rent. Now they can. You're walking away having created that shift in a person's universe. As temporary as it may be, it's still a shift in the direction of the positive.

157:27Right? So what you've done there as far as I'm concerned is a kind of magical act, a kind of miracle. And any anyone can do this, man. Like you you like dude, there were like people who would go around with like spray bottles and just spray your sunglasses off for you, which out in the desert is really important cuz you all the sand gets caught in there and you can't see. That's what they had to give, you know? It was just like helping you in that way. But just that was still cool, man. right? That they're just they're giving a service to people and they don't expect anything out of it. That's it. They're just doing it for love. You can do anyone can do that. There is definitely something you can do that you're not doing. And you're not doing it not because you're selfish. You're not doing it just because you haven't even realized you can do it. It's like having a superpower that

158:15you're not aware of, which is like, just give something away. Like it does. Just give something away. You don't need that Whatever it is, just give the thing away. Super hippie. Hello, Duncan Trussell. Yeah, you're the anti-Trump. When are you going to run for president, Duncan? When are you going to run for president? You never ask a question or answer a question with a question. That's rude. That's a poor taste. I Well, I'll tell you, man. Um, my hope is that that you and I will run. No, I'm just kidding. We got to move. We got to get out of here before it blows up. Get out of here. Maybe Hawaii. Hawaii's gonna blow up. No, no, no, no. Hawaii's gonna be fine. This thing, this thing, this America, you think it'll continental United States of America. I don't know if this is going to work, dude. I'm looking at this election. I'm like, this this thing

159:07is just it's too volatile. Good. Let it collapse by Well, no. What have you said? If it collapses, what about the children? The people are going to be What about the infrastructure? You know, I just had this conversation with I had this conversation with uh Chris Ryan on my podcast. We got to do a shrimp parade soon. I And he said that uh he was talking about how post you know after disasters everybody gives to each other and people are very kind. So if there was some kind of economic collapse, some calamity or something, then I think what people would suddenly realize is like what would happen is the pendulum that swings in front of the eyes of the sum total of all people in this country and convinces us of the importance of this small group of secretive people. Maybe for a second that thing stops swinging and we like look away from it and look at each other and we realize like, "Oh

160:03we've got each other. We're going to be okay." The fantasy of the people like, "Grab your guns, go rob the rich people, all that stuff. The idea that it's going to be some kind of like the LA riots times a million." You realize like, "Oh no, that's not what it's like at all. It's like we can help each other together. I can help you. You can help me. We didn't need them as much as we thought we did. We maybe we didn't need them at all. We've got the roads. There's people who know how to fix roads. I know how to do stuff. You know how to do stuff. You're such a super hippie. We need the system. Goddamn it. We needed trucks to bring in vegetables. We need a sewage system that works. We need power. We need to wreck TV. I need programs. Programs. I need to watch my programs. I need my I need a refrigerator that works. God damn it. I need a I do need Westworld. I need a

160:55hospital that's clean. Yeah, you do need that. But guess what? It could still happen. It could still happen. It can really happen. I think you're such a hippie. There's no hospitals in that Burning Man. There just go actually in They do have like a full hospital at Burning Man. No, I didn't go visit it, but they say they have like a like a urgent care medical facility there that's really nice and they need it too cuz like you think I'm a super hippie man. Do you think they have like a check box like do you have an injury or are you freaking out man? Well that's freaking out. But no that's the Zindo project that MAPS is doing. So one of the cool things that Doblin is doing is they have a thing called Zindo which is the it's called psychedelic harm reduction. And so they create like in the portagons at Burning Man, there are these signs that they put up that say uh night a little night a

161:47little weirder than you expected. Like come here. And so like you go to this place and it's like dude like you got to have this guy on your podcast. His name's uh uh Dr. Cole Martyr. He's a psychiatrist. He's like one of the people involved in the MDMA for PTSD um uh experiments that they're doing. They're in the phase three of the clinical trials maps is. But so he volunteers at the Zeno. But basically what happens is it's this safe space that Dobin's created where you go there if you're freaking out and you're like am I going to get arrested? And they're like no man just just sit down and relax. And like these are trained this guy Cole Martyr man like they're smart trained clinicians. And if they're not clinicians, they they're people who have been through this program who just sit with you and let you freak out without judging you and like just sit

162:41with you and let you relax until you're having an okay time again and then they let you go back. So instead of like losing your and like getting arrested or losing your and being around your friends who are like, "What the wrong with you, man?" You get to be around like really smart, trained people who know how to how to like not just like help you relax, but help you use this event to like transform your life. Cuz a lot of times a bad trip is like a transformative moment for someone if they're around the right people. That's amazing. Yeah, Maps is incredible. I know, man. They've done so much cool And Rick Dolin just is such an interesting guy. I've had him on twice. had a chance to talk to him on the podcast twice. He's such a fascinating dude. He's a warrior, man. When you look at the how much he spent his entire life like, you know, we sit here and we rail against the

163:37system and ah marijuana and like ah but Doblin, man, he's like on the front lines like this guy is like deeply deeply involved in this. He's doing it the right way. Yeah. He's doing it through the system. Yeah. Yeah. It's cool. It is cool. It's interesting like he was detailing like getting it passed and what was going to be entailed and getting this therapy through and then what would be next and how this is a longterm thing they're doing over long many many years. Oh god. He gave like he gave a talk at Burning Man that was just like when you like he's just detailing the like the war on drugs and like why it's happened and what it is and then like his stepbystep plan and then you realize like this guy is in phase three phase three of clinical trials which never happens like with a a schedule one substance that theoretically could like the the results

164:33that they're getting are very good but If people who have PTSD, if they go to the doctor, the doctor will be like, "Well, I'll prescribe Xanax and maybe they'll give you like cognitive behavior therapy or something." But like the idea that there might be a way to give someone um MDMA, MDMA mixed in with like a specific type of therapy and that that could actually I don't want to say cure, but reset their mind. Yes. Yeah. to lift the this the weight of of this horror off of them or at least to allow it to like Doblin explained why he thinks it works. I'm not going to try to repeat it, but the idea that this could work for real is just the most incredible thing, man. That guy would he should get a Nobel Prize. I think he did explain it on this podcast, didn't he? Did Do you remember, Jamie? I don't remember either. I feel like he did, though. I feel like he

165:27explained how it works. It's like you're when you apparently it's something to do with short-term long-term memory. So when you have a traumatic event, it gets stuck in short-term memory. Somehow it's looping there. It's not getting filed away in the right way. God forgive me everyone listening, Doblin, Cole, Marty, whoever I'm ruining this in front of, but like it like it apparently something about uh revisiting the experience under the influence of MDMA causes it to somehow be refiled in the right part of your brain again. So it's not sticking out in the forefront of your experiences. So it's not like the the thing isn't always there like a flashbulb light or something. Isn't it another thing that's infuriating? I mean that's almost to me as infuriating as teenagers getting hooked on flat earth videos. It's more infuriating even that this has always been there. This has

166:19always been there. This has always been there and they made it illegal and all these people that suffered could have could have gotten relief through this a long time ago. That's right. A long time ago. I know, man. If they just recognized this early on and been super objective about it, look look, we clearly have an issue with PTSD in soldiers and policemen and people that have gone through domestic abuse. There's a lot of people with PTSD. They this can literally change the course of our nation. But to keep up the DEA's corrupt system, to keep up this nasty business of arresting people for the wrong kind of drugs while they're selling drugs everywhere you look, to keep up that system, they literally stop something that would have helped everybody. Man, can I just I mean, I don't work for Maps. I've never Can I do a plug for them real quick? So guys, if you actually want to chip in to

167:08something super cool, go to the MAPS website right now. They are raising money because Doblin has got to manufacture I can't remember something like 5 kg of MDMA for the phase 3 trial. So you can you can go to maps and actually chip in to have to to have it well to get ecstasy to get MDMA to vets who are people with PTSD. And it's a really cool thing if you want to chip in money for it. Super cool. Like that's like how often do you get a chance to buy MDMA for people with PTSD? That's amazing. Yeah, it's cool. That's amazing. Yeah, it's really cool, man. Uh cuz they have is incredible. They have a supply of old MDMA and I think it's like they can't use it anymore. They've already raised $148,000. Yeah, but they need they need $400,000 for 5 kg of MDMA. Well, let's see what we could do. See if we can get some donations going. Maps.org. This is my kind of tellathon. Come on, guys.

168:08Let's raise money. You're going to be like those annoying people on public radio. I was listening to this uh McKenna interview once and he was on public radio as a recording of him on public radio and it was so annoying and it was like if you enjoy this program please donate. They have that weird way of talking where it's just as gross as a strip club DJ cuz you know what I mean? It's like there's a way of talking when you're talking about public radio. If you enjoy this show, you enjoy these programs, please donate. We require your donations. It's the only way we stay afloat. If you appreciate this show, if you appreciate fresh air with Terry Gross, that will be coming up later. It's the Portlandia affectation. Well, it's it's No, it's it's National Public Radio Speak. It's I am a super sensitive guy. I am a liberal. I'm absolutely left. I lean left. That was what that

168:59guy in Canada used to talk about about the guy who was accused of beating the out of these girls that he was having sex with. Remember that guy, John Gomeshi? They kicked him They kicked him off the radio show because all these women were claiming that they had uh sex with them and he would like beat them up and Oh, yes, I do. Yes. He would talk like this. Hello. Welcome to the show. I got to go take a leak. I'm sorry. Please go urinate. It's fine. There's no judgment. I have to go urinate. There's no judgment. There's no judgment. Everything's cool. No judgment. No judgment here. In a few moments, we're going to ask once again that you call the number on the screen. Donate. It's very important. Donate. We require your donations to stay afloat here. If you enjoy the state of ferns today, which is our our new piece that we're working on, love, happiness, and whole foods.

169:55It's Duncan Trussell and Brendan Walsh. They have a piece they're putting together for us. Duncan's become a super hippie. Have you noticed? Something's different. A Burning Man. Yeah, I found a hospital they have there. This is from 2014, but they have a cool looking 300 employees at a hospital that has 52 beds. Wow. So, it's at an actual hospital, Humbult General Hospital. Employees come and help people. They have tickets for Burning Man, too, right? Isn't there like I think you have to buy them now. Doesn't that sound crazy? That seems like it doesn't make any sense. But this is the only way to keep people from overwhelming the place because you're you're going to if you have tickets, that means you can only sell a certain amount of tickets. It means Burning Man sells out, right? Yeah. Well, like this uh this service here, the the hospital was paid for by the Burning Man

170:43organization. It cost $455,000 for that year. Oh my god, that's insane. So that's where that part that's where the tickets go. Oh, that makes sense. Show on their website where it all goes. What doesn't make sense though is limiting the number. Does that doesn't that seem illogical? Well, yeah. I mean, if they let 150,000 people in, like that hospital now is They can't, you know, I mean, they But they would just have to ramp it up based on how many people buy tickets. As long as you just keep having tickets, then you'll have more money to spend on more hospitals and you would just sort of plan it accordingly. But maybe they're trying to like slowly develop it where they don't want it to get completely chaotic and out of control, which is what it definitely would do if they had no restrictions whatsoever. Duncan, while you were urinating, we were talking about the restrictions on the

171:29population at Burning Man. And then I found that to be a little bit odd. Makes sense that they're selling tickets to it because especially we found out how much it cost for the hospital. $425,000 for a year. Is that what it was? 455. 455. So, but why wouldn't they just allow more people to buy tickets? Why wouldn't they just keep selling tickets? Why would it get to a number? My guess would be that so it's like they have to work out deals with Gerlock and like the surrounding areas. And what's Gerlock? Gerlock's the town right before you get to Burning Man that once a year just gets like swamped in this huge influx of dough. But like they uh Yeah, there it is. The Bureau of Land Management. No, Bureau of Land Management is um the same thing that manages uh public land for like hiking and and fishing and rafting and that kind of Yeah. And they so like

172:22basically if you look at that you could see that because they have given them this like in basically it's a shakedown, right? So they're like if you want to do this festival you are paying us. Well would you say that it's a shakeddown or they want to control the population cuz they don't want it getting out of control? Oh, no. I Bureau of Land Management has a reasonable I mean, they have a reasonable concern that it could get completely overrun with hippies and it would be massive. There there's a there's definitely a reasonable concern and there's also like uh there's also some maybe I I don't know perhaps there could be maybe some profitering happening. But here's my question. Why wouldn't they make more money by allowing more people in if they really wanted to profiter? The move is to just say I don't think Burning Man I don't think Burning Man's profitering. No, I'm

173:09not saying Burning Man. You're saying Bureau of Land Management, right? Yeah. Why wouldn't they just open it up? $81 million. Oh my god. Look at that. Burning Man's expenses. Oh, 30. Yeah. $30,185,000. Burning Man was once a scrappy little desert gathering become a multifaceted professional operation. And today, the Burning Man Project produces the nation's largest permanent event on public land and supports an extensive global network of events, artists, and civic initiatives. Man, I can't believe that's so much money. Do you want to hear something even do 30,185,000? What's What's crazy about it is when you look down, there's no trash on the ground. That's what's really nuts about it. What do they call it? No matter out of place. Moop. So like what they do after the festival, they will like go from camp to camp looking for where the trash is. And if they find any trash,

174:10they like like if someone's, let's say, broken a a bottle or something, right? They will bring like a team of 11 people in to sift through the sand to get every single bit of glass out of the sand so that it goes back to being just what it was before, an alkaline desert. And um that's that comes from the cacophinist because one of the cacophinist sayings is leave no trace. So they the idea is like they go to a place, do their insane thing, and then leave and it's like they were never there before. Wow. Which is pretty trippy to think. Dude, that's so badass. Yeah, it's so badass. It's so cool. Yeah. It makes you wonder like this didn't exist 30, 40 years ago. Like what's it going to be like 30, 40 years from now? I don't know. It's hard to say. When people give up the ideas that have sort of imprisoned each generation about keeping up with the Joneses and

175:04about belonging to the right country club and about all all the things that people strive for moving up the corporate ladder, you know, all all that stuff and clinking glasses like you're in a Leonardo DiCaprio movie before it takes a turn for the worst. Right. Right. I mean, that's really that's literally what it is before it all starts getting crazy. Your clinking glasses. That's what everybody's hoping for, you know. Oh, no, man. Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, you know, we're we're we're evolving. Everybody's evolving and and we're we're learning a lot of stuff right now. And like we're like, you know, we're learning a lot of stuff. And part of I think hopefully what we're learning is that certain things cannot be commodified. that there's no way to really put a price on certain things. And you know, a lot of people there, it's not like they're against money or

175:58against people making money or anything like that. The idea is is like make money, spend the whole year making money, but then let's ignite it in the form of your amazing sculpture that you brought out into the desert. The other cool thing is, dude, when you're looking at these sculptures, you don't see like a plaque that's like this was made by Tim French. Follow me, Tim French. You know what I mean? No one's no one's signing their work. So, like you're out there and it's like you're standing underneath some alchemical like spherical laser globe that's spinning in a way that the lights make it look like the ground you're standing on is like rotating and shifting. Who made that? Why did they make that? How did they get it out in the desert? How are they fueling this? What the is this? Or like the m there's Tesla coils everywhere out there. Like just Tesla coils sparking in

176:55the middle of the desert. WA. Someone got a Tesla coil out to burn it. Like just when you consider getting a Tesla coil into the middle of the desert and then setting it up so it works. I think they have videos of it if you look it up. It's pretty cool looking, man. That That's just sitting out there. That's amazing. Yeah, that's amazing. Just one just one thing or like dick that giant. What is that giant thing that guy next to the Tesla coil? I don't know. I didn't see that. Who knows? He has floating eyes and what's in his hands? I don't know. Didn't see it. They have dick slides. They have like these slides shaped like dicks that you can ride through like your sperm getting shot into a Yeah. Wow. What a trippy festival. It's the coolest thing ever, man. They have an entire spectrum of just insanity out there. That thing. Wow. Look at that. It's pretty

177:46amazing. Or the Look up the catacombs. Look up the catacombs. These guys made these like crazy pyramids out there. The catacombs 2016 burning man. You should look up like the burning. Oh, you're not allowed to show it. Well, you can show it, but you show what? So, these guys made these like Look at that. Whoa. What is that? They made these pyramids out there, man. I don't think I think that's a drawing like Yeah, there it is. Like with wood. There it is. Yeah. Yeah. And they do this during the time that they're there and then they burn it. They They come in early. So, they come in like a a like 3 weeks early. I'm not sure the exact amount of time. They construct this thing and then they just burn it. They burn those things in the morning at like 6:00 a.m. Dude. Yeah. You could see, look at the dust devils that kicked up next to it. Like Yeah. Whoa. The dust devils are incredible.

178:38Yeah. That's wild, man. The little dust tornadoes just roam through the camps. Yeah. Oh, dude. When these dust storms kick up, it's the most beautiful, insane thing. Cuz just all of a sudden, out of the blue, everything goes from being completely clear to just being completely obscured with this very fine dust, which is why everyone's got LED lights on cuz the lights glow through the dust so that you don't run into somebody. Whoa. Yeah. What a weird choice, though. Why wouldn't they choose to do it somewhere where it's like nice? Well, I think the statement they're making is we can do this in the middle of the death. Think of what we can do everywhere else. Do you think they did that on purpose? No, I think it it it evolved like that. I think that originally the the idea was the cacophonyist had this idea of what's called the zone trip, which is that if

179:26you take a group of people and bring them out of their natural habitat and you then something kind of magical happens. And so there's a story of how the first time they went out there, they drew like a line in the sand and they were like everything after this line is the zone. And like that's when that was the first Burning Man is it just was like they just picked a desolate place so they wouldn't get bothered by people because what was happening is um I can't remember his name. I think it's Larry will you look up Larry Burning Man Larry? I can't remember his last name really. What? Larry Harvey. So what was happening is Larry Harvey was going to the beach. He went to the beach and they just burnt this like uh effigy of a man, right? They just ignited this effigy at the beach and Larry Harvey won't say why they did it. It's really cool. They won't Everybody wants to know like well

180:17what was the reason behind it? So, like they just went and burnt this effigy out there and then they were doing it like uh I think a few years in a row and it kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger and then the somehow the cacophony society got involved because it got so big one year the cops wouldn't let them burn it and so then they were like they they ended up scheduling a cacophinous event which they I've got the flyer in my phone. It's like the burning of the man in the Black Rock Desert. And so they like redid that event um and and took the Burning Man out there. That was the first Burning Man. And then they started doing it every year just like they were doing it at the beach in San Francisco. But it kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And then it became like a it's like it was a cacophinist event basically that spun out of control and

181:06now it's turned into this I think what is one of the largest festivals on Earth. What when is it when does it take place? Labor Day weekend. What's that? I'm not sure. Like the first weekend of September, last week in August, somewhere around it just end of summer. Yeah. So, it just ended a few weeks ago. Well, I think you can look it up. I'm not sure the date. I could be totally off on that. I don't know. Well, either way, it doesn't matter. Um, sounds crazy. Sounds amazing. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty incredible, man. It's pretty cool. You got to go, man. Go next year. I feel like maybe I do have to go, but when you go, you got to do it right, man. Cuz like the problem is like a lot of people there like I mean you could do it whatever way you want but there's like are you telling people how to do it? I'm going to tell you how to do it. I'll tell you how to not do it. How do

181:48you not do it? Well, you heard what happened to the camp the white ocean camp out there, right? What's the White Ocean camp? So, there these camps called like Do you know what the White Ocean camp is? I think that's that story. I I don't want to blow the story, but blow it. You know you want where they cut people's power lines and Yeah. cuz it's like the problem is like there's like you could be a little too inclusive there and so you end up like part of what's cool about that thing is like like this is the thing I saw in an interview with Larry Harvey is like this is a survival situation, right? So it's tough. It's not easy all the way through. Like you you got to get out there in a RV. We drove an RV out there, man. And not that that's hard or anything, but it's like when you're driving an RV um out of Burning Man, it's not easy cuz it's a 8hour line to

182:36get out of Burning Man in the morning in your RV. You're sitting in a RV for 8 hours in this massive line of people who are being pulsed out of Burning Man because there's only one road out. Is this every time you want to leave through any day of Burning Man? It takes that long. If you leave early, you won't have to wait that long. But if you go through the whole festival, it takes that long to get out. And so the point is it's not easy, right? It's not it's not necessarily supposed to be easy. Like it's like part of it's really hard and like really tries you for real. Like it's like you're going to get, you know, you're it's tr it's not easy. So, some people think that that like there people who are kind of subverting the experience a little bit by like flying in on a private jet and then being brought to a place that's already been built for them where they

183:25get to kind of like hang out and then that place is like theoretically it's not so easy for people to get in there. Even though White Ocean like one of their one of the things they said was like well we're giving food to people but it's there's an embarrassing embarrassing post. one of the guys from White Ocean put up like what you did to us and it was like a guy who clearly didn't get the whole point of the thing which is like but s seriously though why would they do that instead of just complaining or just talking to them like why would they cut their power why would they make their food spoil that doesn't seem like a logical choice right dude there's some people you think that is it a logical choice for me no hell no of course not do you think it makes sense to them that they cut the power And they sabotage these people's food. I think that that's what they did, right? Well,

184:15yeah, they up their camp. They like apparently glued their doors shut and stuff, but that seems contrary to the idea behind the event itself. Well, that's the problem. There's no one idea at that event. You're hearing my perspective. Okay, I see. Right. My perspective is one thing, but that ain't the only perspective, dude. There's like a bunch of people out there who aren't there for love. There's like people who are like I mean god have you seen the gladiator ring they have there where they slam people together who fight or the fisting tent or the they have a fisting tent like fisting in the genital fisting. Yeah, they have a tent for that. They have an orgy tent. Fisting tent. They have a tent for fisting. Yeah, there's a fisting tent. I didn't go to it, but I heard about it. How would you not go to it if it was there? I don't know, man. If you build it, they

185:04will come. Is it one of those things where the only way in is someone's got to fist you know cuz that would stop me. I didn't know. But or you could fist them. Would you be in a fisting somebody? You know, I think just to see what it's like. I think I can imagine what it's like. I don't I don't know. Like that that particular thing isn't like it doesn't appeal to me. But uh I do like the openness of it and I do like the fact that like eventually after a bunch of people walking around naked for a week, you stop seeing naked people. And one of the people in my camp, it could be a lie. They say they have something called acceptable boner Tuesday where pe guys will take seialis and just walk around with boners. It's crazy, dude. I got my own ideas of it, but like there isn't one idea about it, man. It's not like a tame. There you go. Orgy dome rules. One, couples and morsomes. Morsomes

185:58only. Yeah. Why is it morsomes? Okay. Two, take off your shoes. Okay. One, couple in morsomes only, meaning that you can't come in there by yourself. Where's your me to You got to bring someone that other people want to Take off your shoes. Yes. Use blue towels under you. Ask before you touch. Clean up and throw everything away. Close and zip both doors. Hilarious. The orgy dome rules. That's a That's amazing. Yeah, that's amazing. But it's not shocking. All those people took a photo of the org dome. Yeah. They're all They're like, "Hey, we fucked." No one. It's like not a big It really though isn't that big a deal if you think about it. Like we're not like we make it a big deal. It's not that big a deal. It's a big deal because we decide it's a big deal, but it's something that everybody does. Like sex is what either everybody does, everybody wants to do. Almost

186:49everybody except the rare few that are actually asexual. Yeah. It's something that everybody does and yet we make it out to be this horrible sin. Yeah. And that's a very like if you're into sex definitely that's a great festival for you because yeah there's a lot of like stuff like that that goes on and everyone's super like I mean I don't know you know that's the gladiator dome. So what is that made out of? Is that all metal or wood? That's metal I think. So you can like climb up there and watch as they like slam these people together. So it's like a Mad Max type thing. So they're actually fighting. Well they take these people put them in these harnesses and these ropes. That looks like that guy's getting kicked. Is he getting kicked? Yeah, he's getting kicked. So they they swing and they beat the out of each other in there. Yep. Wow. This is bananas. Is there video of this or

187:33just Yeah, there's videos. Go right to that, please. The battle the thunder dome. This is real. Yeah, man. Oh my god. What in the f? They're hitting each other. Yeah, they're hitting each other with sticks. What are those sticks? They're foam sticks, but you could definitely like kick I mean it definitely doesn't feel good. Wow. This is nuts, man. Yeah, this is really strange. Yeah, you can hear these people screaming and yelling. Yeah. What a trip. And are there police in this at all? There's cops everywhere. Cops everywhere in Burning Man. There's cops. Boom. Oh my god. Who are the cops? What? There's cops like walking around with cop outfits on. There's cops with cop outfits and undercover cops. So the cops with the cop outfits, what do they do? They just wait for someone to shoot someone or beat somebody up or something. Like, so I gotta tell you, man, I was I most of the cops I saw,

188:28they seem to be having really funny conversations with people at Burning Man who were just talking to them. Like some of them are, you know, there are arrests, but like from what I saw there, it's not like the after I think for a cop after being at Burning Man for three days, I think their perspective starts changing maybe a little bit because they're in this weirdness just like everybody else. I don't know, maybe that's naive to say. There's undercover cops there. And people from my camp said one of the things that they that people do is uh they'll go to where there's like a party or a rave and Yeah. There you go. Cops on ATVs that up with ties. That girl got her ties on. Yeah, it's pretty funny. They're just like doing that. But like one of the one of the things they do is they go they'll go to like with monopoly money with like fake money and fake plastic bags and do fake

189:19drug deals so that suddenly the undercover cops will come out and then they can then they will follow the undercover cops, you know, because Wow. Yeah. It draws them out. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty cool. They do fake drugs. I don't know if it's true or not. That's what I heard. With fake money. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if it's true or not. And I don't know. Sounds good. Let's end on that. All right. Cool. You've changed my perspective of Burning Man. Good. I'm glad. That's good to hear, man. I'm glad I'm glad we talked about it on the podcast because I'm glad we we stopped the conversation on the phone cuz you were so adamant about I'm like, "We got to talk about this." I'm glad we did, man. Okay. Now, I'm super compelled. All right. See you next year. The end. Cool. Awesome, man. That was great. That was so fun. That was one of my best