Carlos Condit & Erwan Le Corre

00:10is it live all right we're live Carlos Condit and irwan Lor welcome gentlemen welcome thanks for doing this appreciate it of course thanks for having us um so how first of all for folks who are not aware of the situation what's going on uh Carlos professional MMA fighter one of the best in the world just fought for the Welterweight Title extremely close fight against Robbie Lawler and you spent a lot of your time uh this Camp how how many camps was it were you training with irwan two now two now yep and irwan you are a a movement specialist and this is all the rage in MMA right now it's it's really kind of fascinating as this sport grows and develops we're looking at a sport that's really only realistically been around since 1993 that's when it sort of formed martial arts of course have been around forever but as a sport where people really started picking it apart and

01:00trying to figure out what's the best way to pursue this it's really only been since about 1993 when the UFC first started and the most recent trend is guys trying to improve upon balance movement and their ability to close distances and uh and attack and be in a position to constantly be able to do that in between those techniques so instead of concentrating on just hitting pads or just doing you know shooting doubles or doing various drills you're concentrating on the movements that take place in between those techniques is that a fair way to describe it um yeah and and I think that the movement uh also helps um in in in the techniques themselves you know we we can focus specifically on on you know martial arts Tech techniques which are you know on a base level movement right right and how did you guys get hooked up uh I I reach out to to Carlos yeah actually it's one

02:02of your comments that you were commenting on one of those UFC events and you you talked about the current state of the welterweight Division and at some point you talked about Carlos and he was still recovering from his injury and and you said that at this point uh you know he was 31 or three years old back then and uh it's like was a serious injury and that from then on it could only somewhat get slower and that made me react because it was both true and not true true from a conventional standpoint that's true but from a u training coaching uh movement practice standpoint I knew that there was a possibility to uh to reverse that to improve right and that this is actually that comment that made me think Carlos is right there I need to reach out to him I can train him and I can show that there are some different methods that can bring results even in uh season Fighters uh like

02:56Carlos what is your background training in the woods a lot when I was a kid moving in the woods climbing trees jumping from rock to rock and being not only being encouraged to do that by my own dad um uh and uh and then later on I did some extreme trainings I would say in Paris with a very small group and we would climb scaffoldings and we would jump off Bridges and we would balance on top of the CL scaffoldings like parkour type stuff it was it was a parallel movement because uh the founder of Parkour David bill was almost my neighbor and practically were're the same age but we we didn't know each other back then and I was following an old guy and we would do these uh these trainings because we were somewhat um wanted to go against the the normal SE the you know how heavy the inertia of normaly of wanted to do uh to know ourselves uh through through movements

04:03and exercises and challenges that were complete out of out of of this world what do you mean by heavy the inertia of normaly what what exactly do you mean by that well I like to say that normaly is a silent killer a lot of people are just extremely bored by their day-to-day routines it kills them it shrinks their comfort zone all the time and um it rubs their their their creativity their their uh Vitality um because we're not meant to live such predictable lives mhm and um we actually we're supposed to be extremely adaptable mental and and physical level and we we need to uh train that adaptability by uh presenting ourselves with the challenges that are going to maintain that adaptability it's it's we need a strategy um if a lifestyle is boring if we are born in our life bored in our life style uh there's nothing in this world that's going to really uh change that uh we can

05:05entertain ourselves we can consume tons of entertainment but what we need truly to get out of this is a strategy uh to perception of of oneself that is different and then the strategy that's in line with that perception of a stronger self a more free self I know it's very philosophical but you ask me you ask me about it I'm I'm just telling you the the the I think about it if I had followed uh you know what the the Box the the textbooks the uh the conventions I would not be in the place I am today I would not have done what I've created so it's a philosophy as much as it's a training modality because everything in life is philosophy but you call it philosophy Outlook perspective opinion values whatever you call it it's something in your mind is a certain perception that makes you see yourself see the world a certain way and behave accordingly a bodybuilder you may

06:05you may think that's purely physical but it's not it's a philosophy the the the guy who wants to be big has a perception of himself as being very big and is's going to train accordingly so it always starts with the perception and then you behave accordingly so everything in that sense is philosophy now when you met this character your first impression and why do all these movement teachers look like Jesus cuz that's a question that's been coming up over and over again on the forums and I I feel obligated to ask um well I think they Port yeah they I think they're a you know they are of the the the naturalistic persuasion um so uh first first impression of Irwin was that he was very intense um you know we went and we you know there's a wooded area there in Albuquerque and we you know I thought we were going to go play around you know walk on some you know walk on

06:59some Lo and just kick it immediately it's like no we're we're working and it was you know from from the first time that we started he was you know demanding excellence and you know demanding uh quite a bit of of of of focus and for me I'm kind of like a you know add type of person and I'm you know I that's that's why I fight there's a lot of different things to do I can move I can play I can focus at certain times then go around at other times and and um working with everyn it's not only been uh beneficial for for me physically but also um you know as far as my my my my focus and uh just just my my attention um physically initially it was hard man I was I was just maybe seven or eight months off of my knee surgery um my body was stiff I I had a great physical therapist and we were making progress in in that respect but um I wasn't there yet I had a lot of imbalances I was I

08:02was you know you know it was I I was still kind of up what um what type of uh knee surgery you had ACL reconstruction did you get kadav or patella I had aligra so a kadaver yes I'd like that that's my favorite one I encourage people to do that I know that guys have said that it doesn't take but when guys say it doesn't take I always wonder if they were training too hard too quick so um I have a good friend who's a uh orthopedic surgeon and he he told me that it's strong initially because they use somebody's Achilles tendon which is you know four times thicker than your act it's 150% stronger than a regular ACL um but as your body's assimilating it uh it gets weaker um you it it apparently you your body does this scaffolding of its own cells around it as it's assimilating it to your own tissue and um it it gets weaker during that point eventually you wait a year 18

08:58months it's going to be stronger than was before but in that period seven eight months where you're feeling good um the inflammation's gone away the swelling's gone down you're like oh I feel I feel amazing I can go train I can go Spar boom you blow it yeah and they say it didn't take but that's not really true right you know I don't I don't I don't think it's true that that wasn't my experience you know thankfully from what I've talked to doctors they that's exactly how they said it too that you feel really good and you start training hard then you blow it out Ed Herman did that Dominic crew did that a bunch of guys have done that and it's um it's it's very common yeah so uh you know irn and I start working together uh initially it sucked man I couldn't do hardly any of this stuff and I'm a high level athlete and it was frustrating so um I would go and

09:47I didn't put a little bit of information from him I'd work a little bit by myself and then the next time we worked i' i' I would have made some progress and um you we'd work together for you know once a week maybe twice a week for over a year now and now how are you how are your camps structured because a lot of people they structure their camps they're very regimented they have particular days for strength and conditioning and it's all sort of designed so that they have enough time to recover for their skill work and especially if you're working at specific techniques for a specific type of fighter and you you would have to incorporate all these things and then this movement training and stuff as well like how would you figure out when to put that in did you have to experiment or every Camp really is an experiment because um as I've grown as an athlete

10:36I've changed I've got older you know I have to take more time off than I did before I have to really um you know pay pay attention to my body so we do have somewhat of a structure like that um but it's also every every all the scheduling is tentative it's like okay yeah I have this scheduled on this day but if I'm feeling like I'm not going to go in there and do that that's that's a good way to get hurt right it's a big fight I can't I can't get up so when you feel like real worn out you have to sort of like really be paying attention to your body yeah absolutely um and we do active recovery um my strength and conditioning um you know the place that I that I go um we do a lot of different things they they use some uh uh biof feedback uh uh software that that's pretty cool you stick some sticky pads on your body and like a EKG thing and it can tell you

11:30physiologically um what your Readiness level is and this has been being used by uh a ton of different um uh you know professional athlet or professional teams um uh collegiate teams and professional teams and and Olympians so they're checking like muscle balance uh lactic acid no this I what it what it does is it measures um heart rate variability and uh central nervous system activity and the correlation between the two and whatever they're algorithm is that theyve come up with to figure out you know the you know what what the the correlation means they can you know you got a little dumb screen that shows you blue BL or green you know yellow red as far as your trainability I can you know I can do strength and and speed uh but my my power and strength you know uh level Readiness is is down and then so we we use that as a tool there's sometimes we just got to go

12:26sometimes you just got to go old school and be like you know yeah you know this is this is fancy but I need to push through today um but it's it's it's a tool to help um mitigate overtraining wow that's that's really fascinating so it seems like experience is probably the most important thing then I think so I I I think so and that's hard though when I'm in training camp I'm like a racehorse Man I want to run and I really need somebody to you know P pull back the RS and sometimes I can do that myself but sometimes I'm in you know in shark frenzy mode I just go go go go go and uh you know and and you know I have I have to have people around me to be like hey know whoa kick it you know you need to need to kick back and your relationship with irwan when you guys first started how did you work in the movement training with all the other stuff that you were doing did you have

13:19like a specific day you'd say hey we're going to meet on Tuesday and set Tuesday aside pretty much yeah we would go uh you know block out maybe 3 or 4 hours um later in the week um and you know just hit it and it wasn't always intense that was a cool thing about work with Irwin it wasn't like physically intense it was um uh mentally and neurologically taxing so after we did this stuff I was absolutely wiped out but you know I got my heart rate up a little bit but it these weren't hard workouts they weren't taking it out of me physically that's interesting so what was what wiped you out about it um I think it was we're training the neuromuscular system and we're training the um he could probably tell you more about it than I than I can but um it was you know really really precise uh movements that just t attack attacks you neurologically um and um like I don't know he could

14:23probably what is he uh what's he babbling I like to say well well first off so uh Carlos is surrounded by a a war a team of worldclass people uh the person he was talking about Adrien of elevate in Albuquerque is a strength and conditioning coach so he works specifically with him on this area of this training and then there is Brandon Gibson and then there is Ricky LEL and then of course there is Greg Jackson and and wiol and so um so me I had to uh to address areas of his training that I believed were were lacking uh if I was to find a word to describe what we've been training with him I would say uh Carlos we've been training your brain uh because the number one reason why we have a brain from an evolutionary perspective is for movement it's not to discuss fine wine or the history of art which is great but originally it's so that an animal can navigate uh through

15:21complex movement through complex environments that's the reason why we have a brain uh so intensity is not necessarily uh raising the heart rate you know going really hard and and burning all over intensity can be in the mindfulness that you uh apply to uh intentionally perform movement very specifically with a high level of efficiency that requires a level of focus that uh challenges stimulates and help the the the connective functions grow as a matter of fact movement itself is uh a major if not the major um uh secret or or or or reason for uh helping connective uh functions it does a whole deal of of uh of things uh in the in you know processes in the brain that's going to uh to to to help it grow and what you acquire through movement transfers to any area of life but obviously transfers to better movement and better movement is not always just more power more uh or

16:37new techniques I I told Carlos Carlos listen you've been training for 13 years you are extremely season extreme experien and I bet that uh you've tried diverse modalities of training uh but that currently you are uh every Camp is pretty much the same in term of preparation accept what's specific to a game plane for a given opponent uh so I said you may try to acquire more more power it's going to take a lot of energy because you you have already a lot of of of power for your for your way category uh you may try to acquire more endurance uh but that's going to be putting a lot of time a lot of energy to get that you can try to learn more techniques but you have already you know already so many techniques so one of the things that you can do is to to move better so any technique that you already know we want to perform them better okay so what is involved in movement training

17:42like say it's day one you get a guy like uh and he says hey uh uh I love this idea hook me up well uh in the case of of Carlos it had to be something specific to him as a fighter to what I saw I saw you know what are his fores his strong points but also saw what I believed were deficiencies uh and that may seem presumptuous but when I talked to him about it what I saw that could be improved he said well that's exactly what I've been told for years by my coaches and what was that um I thought that his his stance was too high he used these too Nar mostly this particular you know typically tie boxing Square stance mhm uh you know with his feet in L shape um and um and to me that caused a ton of instabilities but also prevented him from being as fast as I believe he could be in moving in and out or or sideways so so what adjustments did you make as far as the stance uh we we we the

18:49position of his back foot is oriented you know at 90° angle so we moved it Forward more at a 45° angle but the problem with did that that when we have a square stance basically your feet are in line so if you move you are relatively stable only because the back foot is going that way now when you move it that way you you shrink a bit your your base of support it create creates even more instability so what you need to do is to have your feet wider to widen you know a bit wider on the on to the front or to the back and then to the sides like a something like a a a width uh shoulder width or her hip width so that was really a lot of when you when I was tweaking something it would it may create an negative uh consequence so we had to do a lot of drilling to to improve at stance to make it to make to make it better now the the stance that you developed uh sort of classic stance

19:51you know and you're a tall guy you would fight tall and stand up High um were there any issues when he started adjusting the way you plac your feet or did you have to relearn things and oh yeah oh yeah without a doubt um I've been I've been training you know uh mu Thai since I was 15 years old and so yeah I mean these things have been uh you know have been uh uh stratified in my in my my freaking you know ner you know my muscle memory for for years uh so yeah it took quite a bit of and I probably you still see me going back to my my old habits you're going to especially when you're tired or you're stressed or you're in different situations you're were going to revert back to the thing that you've trained the most um but when I'm mindful of it for the most part um you know I I definitely think that the improvements or the the the adjustments we made were

20:41uh were major improvements um we also worked on instead of being real real heavy on my front leg um having more of like an upright stance and upright stance as far as my torso and not uh not being so heavy being more 50/50 on my legs and that that allowed me to move in in and out um faster not only forward but but back um and that showed big time in the the fight against Thiago Alves I think that was the reason I was able to um you know get in get inside land with the elbows as effectively as I did and you know and then kind of you know get get the fight rolling we're seeing some I love watching different sort of patterns that are developing that Fighters start following but one of the things that we're seeing there's a lot of people that are standing in more of a karate stance MH uh more sideways and wider stance and that with that like sort of leoto Macha style uh gunar

21:35Nelson likes to fight like that you can bounce Conor McGregor you bounce in and out easier it seems like a a a lighter foot print sort of stance yeah and that that's very much what we were aiming at you know you know I I execute it the way that I do cuz I'm a flat-footed kind of goofy guy um and I do I do my my best you know I'm you know I'm lucky I got a hard head sometimes um because I'm not Mr technique all the time U but we definitely made Improvement I must say that working with Carlos and uh he's he's extremely focused actually when he trained there was like no it was like a zero fat kind of training like completely entirely focused from the beginning to the end always really applied himself during the training and I know that he drilled a lot also on his own in between every session uh to make those adjustments to to make them become second nature because when you when you

22:33change any aspect of your Technique at first it feels un natural because your brain is you know you have something certain patterns that are ingrained in your uh ner muscular memory and they are they're a little hard to change but Carlos was able to change things really fast actually and I was always impressed by how fast he would make those progresses and again those progresses were not uh that much physical you know in the sense of strength and conditioning like it would have toward hard to it it the the Chang is where I always told him you have the body has it what you need is that that map in your in your brain somewhere to really understand recognize identify and assimilate fully that particular pattern you've done so many movements so many so much footwork so much but that way to do it requires a different wiring between the mind and and the body between the brain and the

23:41and the body that's a big part of it right is just patterns and getting those patterns ingrained in your system to the point where they come out automatically yes like you know those those movements that happen either in sparring or in competition where all of a sudden you're executing something and you had zero thought it's just completely your training takes over you slip a punch and counter and you don't even there's no conscious thought at all and that has to sort of similarly be achieved through movement exactly and that what's that's what stimulated Carlos's brain that much that he had to to take a nap after every training whereas he's used to really really hard training but with that training which is relatively low intensity and um the brain is so stimulated that it needs to recover uh because it needs to process while it is it's like if the movement the mindful movement is the

24:38input that the body that the brain needs to do that re circuiting uh differently um yeah and to uh to deconstruct Old patterns replace them with with new more efficient battern and and that didn't happen while we were doing it you know while we were doing a lot of the times I was struggling with this stuff um but I'd go home and I I would rest and I'd go back to my my regular training work a little bit on it not a whole lot but then the next time I would come back it was almost as as if my my my mind and my body had digested this stuff and and assimilated and and put it into practical application without like uh um unconsciously without me even really working on it too much um you know he says that I that I would work in in the meantime between our sessions sometimes I did sometimes I didn't sometimes I had a lot of other stuff going sometimes you didn't um but it looked like I did um

25:39because you I feel like and I I think this is kind of a a you know a consensus that you make gains you know during your rest you can lift and lift and lift and lift but if you never rest you're never going to make those gains the same thing with um with your Technique and um you know this this neurological training iess it works exact same way um that it's the whole movement that's going on right now is really fascinating because there's a bunch of different sort of branches of it um and there's like what Ido portal is doing there's what you're doing but there's also what Nick kon's doing he's a guy who's a strength and condition coach for um Fabricio verum and HAF dos sanos and I had him on the podcast and I asked him like what is like one of the most important things that Fighters are lacking and that you you try to improve on and he said foot strength and I found that to be really

26:35interesting and when I watched what you guys were doing a lot of this Barefoot jumping and leaping and balancing and it requires like some prettyy extreme foot stability it's the number one thing we addressed with cars number one number one I said your feet are not strong wow and they're not they're not smart enough not that that that feet have a brain but there is a uh an extremely strong correlation between uh the proper reception in the foot and and the brain and movement so most of the time when we move we're on our feet and that's the reason why there are so many sensors uh nerve terminations in in the feet thousands and thousands of them why because it's about intelligence intelligence in the sense of information we talk about propi reception extra reception which is the particular perception of a given surface and it's texture and is it slippery is it give it

27:31does it give traction and things like that uh is it is it stable or shaky anyways so the moment you place your feet uh boom sends an information to the brain the brain processes and gives order to all the rest of the body to shift the way to to uh just you know gives some order some intention it happens without you having to think about it and it happens extremely fast however the more your feet are sensitive in that sense uh the faster that information travels up and and back down uh and secondly also the stronger your foot is the more reliable your base of support is so we talk about the strength uh of the foot we talk about the elasticity of of the muscles in the feet uh to to be sometimes more bouncy uh just simply faster uh to be also uh more endurant to to last longer with that elasticity and speed um and we did a lot of that through uh balancing

28:36drills even like loaded balancing drills but also specific footwork drills uh and moving in and out and and it was not only uh the footwork itself it's also how the level of alertness that you have in relation to an open it and the level of responsiveness that you have in your movement in relation to an open it because it's not just reinforcing a particular part of your body as if you're made of Parts it it has to work as a whole we had to make sure that anything would improve specifically then would be brought back to the the the whole Spectrum which is movement in a fight and work and actually improve and that's what uh Carlos did every time when he would go sparring and then he would see by himself and and then tell me back I've improved this I've improved that and my coaches see it too so proof is in the P the pudding as as Carlos would always say it

29:32works yeah you know most people would think that if you're a fit guy and you're a strong guy and you know like say maybe you do squats or something like that you'd have strong feet and uh one of the things that shocked me the most when I started doing yoga is that's what would give out it's my feet would give out I was like this is so so bizarre like I felt like okay if I could stand on one foot like if you made me stand here on one foot with my sneakers on it's not hard I'll stand on one foot you know okay no big deal but when you're balancing my feet would ache you know like you're doing like bow pose or something like that you got one leg up here and your arm is stretched forward and you're balancing my feet would be what were was giving out and I started thinking about how little stability you know most people probably have from training with shoes on lifting

30:20weights with Shoes On Doing running with like big thick cushy shoes all those things even even uh El Elite athletes and even elite MMA fighters and the reason why even even when they are training barefoot in dojos or in Gs um but you have to think of what's the background of a given person most people today in modern populations uh grow up indoors with shoes on all the time walking where walking on flat smooth surfaces very predictable there's no challenge to to the body there's no challenge to the feet the feet become numb the become weak structurally and uh and and and and in term of strength in term of Mobility stability yeah so um if you train MMA because you going to uh do uh you know say a striking move on your feet it's going to help definitely it's going to help your your fot strength your fot Mobility your fot stability but it not as much as what you're going to

31:24gain when you have to balance uh on on on narrow surfaces and or in certain positions in certain transitions kneeling and sitting and get ups and get down especially with loads on or at a certain Pace at a certain speed um it's different and but when you make the feet stronger then your footwork is stronger when we talk about movement coaching uh some people are confused because when they hear movement in relation to fighting they think foot work mhm uh and it is footwork but it's also more than that do you remember a few years back uh it was all the rage you you hearing about a lot of NFL players were doing ballet MH do you remember this uh yeah I I it was a big deal like people were like mocking it and joking around about it and I remember thinking man that is really interesting they must have some sort of benefit in that if they're doing it but if you think about ballet the movements

32:25are incredibly difficult and especially if you're 260 lb stud athlete covered in muscles it's like if you're a thi like there was a guy that was in a yoga class recently was his former football player real big guys like 6'4 and real thick and heavy and it's so much harder for him to do these movements and say like a girl who weighs 100 PB it's like a castle in the sand you know it's not an aules standon it's like an aules food it's a uh you have a whole Mountain that's that's built on on a very weak foundation so ballet uh even for NFL players um was actually a very smart move because when you look at the strength of the the the cows I had a uh cousin who was a professional uh dancer uh her her cows her food strength was completely amazing because you know they do this gracious movement people see the grace but they make extraordinary movement look easy but they're not like

33:23floor gymnast too I would imagine cuz they have to stick like they your your foot has to have the ability to catch you and then just stay in that position completely locked in absorb uh foot ankle knee hip stability core stability I mean it it all it starts starts in the foot um balance I mean it's everything is integrated of course um but it it starts with your feet I saw you doing uh in some of the countdown shows you were doing a lot of jumping over things then standing it jumping onto a looks like a board and landing on like looks like a 2x4 or something like that and locking in place on that and it was pretty impressive stuff because there it is right here Jamie how what a you're on the ball but like this kind of stuff like when you were doing these kind of movements like look you see it here on this how did you how do you design these aan and like what are you are you

34:21looking for different things specific to Carlos I mean totally spec 100% specific to Carlos because that's the point uh movement coaching for lack of better term um it's not giving a fighter random movements that are not fighting movements B dancing or whatever Kora taii could be anything it could be any movement movement is such a very it's a vast world or Universe um if you're lucky you're going to you're going to if you give something randomly you're going to find something that happens to be useful but in in the case of Carlos I looked at his fights I analyzed this movement I had some some some intuitions about what was there what was missing and then as I was training him I was constantly adjusting uh the movement programs what was in every session to what I saw was working what I saw was not working what I depending on the level of progress that it was making we would do something

35:29more difficult or at a higher level of intensity it's it's tailored it's customized not random how did you develop this program this is very interesting because I would imagine that you would get athletes from a bunch of different sports that would come to you right no no I'm not looking I I told Carlos Carlos listen I'm focusing 100% on you right there's no other athlete that I want to but you have like a gym right I mean you have this move Nat is this company you have this website yeah we have uh we have thousands of certified trainers who are using yeah thousands of trainers I think somewhere around 3,000 at this point around the world uh six the company uh since 2009 so this is all your creation you've developed this all yourself My Method the method is my creation but however I do draw from uh from the history of physical education which I have uh

36:27studied a lot especially what comes from Europe and in my case because I'm I'm originally from France uh there used to be a method called of the natural method by a guy called George be who himself was not he was seen as a Pioneer but himself was you know at some point of that long line of people before him was amoros and pistal Lodi and mercuris a lot of guys who were working on these different methods but we're talking uh uh 20th century 19th century 18th century and before and before and before and back then people didn't have exercise science um so what is it that they were training they were training the most down to earth practical movements they would jump they would run they would crawl they would lift and carry things and throw and catch things why because that's these are the movements that people needed back then that they were uh in the military or

37:31firefighters and when you look at it today um if there is a situation that's say potentially life-threatening these are still the movements they need to do to save your life or to save somebody else's life they're extremely they're natural but they are natural also to the point that they are vital so you have this gy right um what what is your normal clientele like the normal person that comes to a moovn gym it's it's impossible to uh shrink to a particular category because do you get like Housewives you get athletes of all sports yes yes old and young men and women so some woman comes in she's she's a housewi women hate that expression a woman comes in who's a nonprofessional athlete who's just looking to get back in shape maybe after having a baby like what do you design a protocol specifically for her is that what you would do yeah it's a it's do

38:27you have class is like the the movements there are some movements that are uh fundamental movements that anybody can do uh and then you have more advanced movement and then you have say a simple jump like you see Carlos jumping you're like this woman you're talking about won't be able to do that actually yes she will but not at the same level of intensity right oh I see so you would have her do it like shorter jumps over lower lower jump on the spot where you jump 2 in above ground and land in the same spot where you were standing 2 inch I think she could do four you got to push her yeah exactly well you just need to keep the the training um you know never too hard never too easy that was actually also my concern when I started to train Carlos because he was recovering and I was extremely worried that I wouldn't do anything that would compromise his recovery in any way that

39:25would actually help him recover even even faster so a method you have a method only when it's scalable and also when it is Progressive and because these movements are natural they belong to all of us like it's like um what would be the best way to train a wild tiger like can you imagine that you're going to try to isolate their you know their H legs and then try to have them do another workout for the front legs and then put them on the on the uh meal for cardio that wouldn't make any sense that would be hilarious because to be optimally strong and and agile and like a good Hunter a good Predator the W tagger just needs to be and behave and move like a wild tagger in it's an original environment but get a tiger on an inverted treadmill and really push that have some good music on maybe some motivational videos turn the heater up it would be a a a Drago tiger uh well you know they do

40:27that with with pit bulls you know pitbulls when they train them for fighting they they put them on treadmills it's uh they put them on a a treadmill that's sort of self-propelled like the animals propelling the treadmill and they'll put something in front of it that it wants to get to so exercise science for for pitbulls yeah well it's a it's a real thing I mean they sell these yeah they have weigh-ins yeah oh yeah they do shit's serious man yeah why not but my point was everybody needs the fundamental of believe everybody needs the fundamental of of movements before you go through a very uh specific science-based uh exercise for for anybody uh most people don't need that most people just need to move in the first place they don't even move they can't even squat right right most people are just sedentary they're just sitting offices and cubicles or what have and

41:21the cause of of most of their uh physical ailments is that improper movement Behavior lack of movement or too specialized movement lack of diversity uh and good thing is that the antidote for that is movement also movement Behavior movement behavior is the cause and the solution to a lot of physical issues yeah so when when you think about it what do we do we we stand we sit We Lay we Bend that's about it that's like four four things right throughout our day you know and that that is so so you know narrow of a movement Spectrum compared to what should we do we should throw we should run we should catch we could should swim we should balance we should pull we should carry we should you know fight we could all all this uh you know variety of things that that the human body is supposed to do and yet we are like in these constrains of our you know we have chairs we're sitting here on

42:21chairs before there was chairs there was a you know a low low squat or knel or you know um there's uh there's also the the the neurological um benefit of doing those things because to for you to um to to move that way your body has your your brain has to do it for you fire those Sy we're not we're not doing that by you know this this boring as or even if we're um uh fit you know we're still laying we're still we're sitting on machines I'm doing a you know elevated you know whatever um bench press or something yeah yeah it's it's we're still kind of very minimal yeah it's very minimal we we're we're not supposed to be like that we're supposed to move exactly the the the even the people who who are brave enough to go against that inertia of normaly um and go to the gym uh and they will exercise with machines I see a huge problem with that type machines it's totalitarian

43:29yeah because machines dictates your movement shrinks it shapes it uh you have no choice you follow a a very simplified pattern that's imposed by the machine right this is not who you are this is not what you're supposed to be and move like because you're supposed to be highly adaptable in the way you move but when you do try to isolate your muscles you're treating yourself like you're a freaking machine like a factory when you should be like a wild forest or a perm cultur Garden or something like that it's it's not what you're designed by uh Evolution or creation whatever to do um and so bringing it back around to to MMA to stepping in the Octagon to to fighting you know the nature of our sport has so many different uh variables anything can happen we go through you know we're using very uh Energy Systems we go from you know going um aerobic to anerobic to using an

44:33isometric hold all the way back through you know so so many different things involved because basically we're able to do whatever the we want in there with you know under a very limited amount of rules um so training this way just just makes sense um because I mean it's it's much more uh along the lines of what we're actually going to do in competition how much of a factor does flexibility uh play and how often do uh you train flexibility a lot of a lot of uh so flexibility is is is huge Mobility is huge because the more Mobility you can you know um uh explore manifest physically a full range of of motion but it's also plays a huge role in uh how relaxed you are and therefore how much power you can generate that's actually what was the one of the main point uh focus on the second camp that we did for the fight for Robi um so we established a strategy uh I proposed a movement

45:40strategy uh to Carlos and he he he he when he talked to Greg Jackson about his game plane they they came up with the same thing and that was to use his wrench to always keep control of the wrench and therefore to use his his reach through using his kicks more and better MH and um we had to address some some deficiencies in in flexibility because what we what we what we noticed right away is that when he was when Carlos was trying to reach a certain height uh he had to somewhat go a little Beyond his his back then current level of you mean height Mobility yes yes and so when you try to somewhat force a little your Mobility what creates is instability mhm and and and slows down the movement and then you also loses accuracy and power and accuracy so we did tons of of stretching but we did that stretching through natural movement through a lot of movement on the ground

46:42and and um yeah through those natural patterns so I think uh and you know tell me if you agree um in MMA as opposed to traditional martial arts I think we skip over a lot of the the the intricacies cuz I know you're a a martial artist you're you know you're you came up in in Taekwondo um and I feel like traditional martial arts really emphasize you don't go past this point until you've mastered this this thing and it's very uh you know very specialized in MMA I think we get a guy and you know he he's got a wrestling background uh we'll teach him a little bit of boxing um we won't get him necessarily super crisp teach him how to stay out of a few submissions you know get him real strong get him in shape and then put him out there and let him go with intensity and a lot of times that'll carry a lot of guys to the top levels and yet they've missed some of

47:42these smaller um basic nuts and bolts kind of thing with with the movement yes um and I think that going back to um and that that's all good that's all well and good you know you need you need that mix of stuff you need the intens it you need to be able to get out there and bring it you know bite down on your mouthpiece and throw down when it when when the time comes but if you have that you can always go back and work on that other stuff and and that's what I feel like I I did quite a bit with with Irwin is you know uh making these tweaks on these uh these very fundamental things that that had been had been skipped over because you know I'm you know I'm kind of I'm built to be a I I got I got the fighter thing here um and you put me you against whoever I'm I'm going to go but now let's just refine let's refine let's refine and and uh um maximize and yeah

48:37maximize the potential of what I can do yeah it seems like almost having that kind of go go go mentality that fighter mentality it's obviously a huge benefit when you're in a fight but it almost seems like maybe sometimes it's against your benefit when you're training because when you're training you almost should be looking at it like a science you almost should be looking at instead of like just trying to be the toughest guy in the room you should almost be looking at it like you're building a a castle and you have to make sure the foundation is good and in traditional martial arts you have your white belt techniques and then you know as you develop in the ranks and you get new new belts you move up and you get higher ranks one of the things you say you you get higher techniques or more difficult techniques but one of the things you see in MMA is there's guys that have

49:27mastered like truly mastered one particular aspect of MMA like uh Damen Wy perfect example he's a legitimate Jiu-Jitsu Master world champion and because of that his his specialty is so strong that he when he gets to that spot he's just got this massive advantage over almost anybody and you see that when he fights like really good guys you know like gunar Nels I mean gunar Nelson's a a on the ground but Damen so godamn good like Neil mag's another one Neil mag is so good he so tough and so so good at avoiding submissions his defense is excellent and Damien just ran right through him and he runs right through him because his technique is samurai sword sharp and he has polished it down and then now he's learned all the other stuff he's learned kickboxing and in the beginning he didn't have that and that's why like Nate marquart knocked him out and all these other guys were able to beat him

50:25is he just didn't have those the standup skills he didn't have all the other attributes of of MMA but that one thing he had hone to like sort of a Mastery level whereas some guys never get to that at anything they're really good at everything but they never get to a Mastery level in anything yeah yeah and I I would I mean I I would say that that's probably me I'm I'm good at a lot of different things um maybe not a master in necessarily anything stand up is pretty high level PR pretty high level yeah pretty high level you know you stand up at pretty much anybody you know I I put your stand up at a very high level but you know your submissions are very good too man but if you spent five years and did nothing but jiujitsu every day and started competing in the mundal and Abu Dhabi and Naga and all that and who knows what the your Jiu-Jitsu would be like which

51:18sounds awesome I mean yeah when I was coming up Greg Jackson's gym now is very much a you know it seem as kind of you know kickboxing strike lot lotss and lots of striking some some uh some wrestling some Jiu-Jitsu but mainly striking right um back in the day when I first started with Greg and his his system and his Affiliates it was mainly grappling school it was Geo Jitsu right G Jitsu yes sir his style that he had created yeah um well him and some other guys kind of got together and created this thing um does he still call it that or is that no no that's that's history man that's just that's that's old school stuff I don't know how the I still remember that um but you know a guy like Keith Jardine who by the time he got into the UFC was kickboxing everybody when I first met Keith Keith was a Jiu-Jitsu guy man he was competing in in the advanced level at you at these uh uh

52:14Grapplers Quest tournaments and that sort of thing and then kind of got away from that um and you know I think my first 12 or 12 or 13 wins or something were were by submission and now I haven't had a submission in years yeah yeah so um we just got away from that and I think the the sport kind of evolves and then it comes full circle like it goes you know swings one way and then and then the other and you see that with Fighters as well like Paul Felder is perfect example kids is excellent Striker and he had a couple really close decision losses to Barbosa and Ross Pearson and then he wins his next fight by submission and attacked with another submission before he got the rear naked choke he almost got him in a guillotine like you see guys going hey there's other ways to skin a cat like I got to I got to figure out how to be more predictable or unpredictable rather

53:06and I think that that's one of the real problems with guys who are specialist Strikers is that when you fight a guy who's a specialist Striker you know that he's not going to be shooting on you so you're more relaxed you know you can loosen your legs up a little bit you know your footwork your stance takes a different position because you're not you're not squared off always looking to sprawl and hit under hooks yeah absolutely and you know you bring that up and that um makes me think about my last fight you know I'm I'm a well-rounded fighter but I sat I went in there and had a kickboxing fight with with Robbie um well I thought that would actually be to your benefit because what I said in the pre-fight thing was that you your issues you've had in the past with guys who've been able to hold on to you and grab you down like hris and that that might be a a benefit to you in the

53:53Robbie Lawler fight cuz Robbie just he's a gladiator I mean that dude he's so rare in that regard he what you see is what you get that guy you know he is all bite down the mouthpiece and move forward he's got excellent technique and he's just tough his nails but he's a born fighter born fighter well that's why that fight was so good between you guys that last round man Jesus Christ when the round was over and you guys both put your arms on the cage you that was the that was the the perfect example of leaving it all in the Octagon you guys just emptied out the tank you were on fumes and then the buzzer rang and you both did the same thing when the has that ever happen I don't think that's ever happened in a fight where the fight's over and both guys just walk to the cage you didn't hug each other like that that'll happen later look at this look at this picture right there that's you guys

54:46that's never happened man I've never seen that I wasn't even conscious of that at that point I think I was you know oxygen deprived hypoxic you know probably mildly concu from getting Tak shots that was a amazing fight it was an amazing fight and it was an amazing round that fifth round was just goddamn chaos I mean that to me is all of the the scariest aspects of MMA as far as damage and you know what you guys are doing to each other and all the greatest aspects of MMA as far as like display of heart and courage and willpower and just determination because you had to be burning I mean everything what was it like in there that fifth round um I came out and I was I was feeling good I think I came out and finishing that fourth round I I finished strong I almost almost had him finished um in that fifth round I knew that he was going to come out like you

55:42know you know like a bad out of hell so I wanted to finish strong and you never know what the with the judge I didn't know where I was I felt like I was maybe up on the scorecards but I'm like it I need to go out there and I started the round really really strong I think and then he woke up and you know came on turned on his beast mode like he does at the end of a lot of fights and you know had had you know landed some some really heavy strikes um but it was just I mean we were just digging I don't even remember honestly I don't I remember at certain points I guess the only thing that I could uh uh compare it to was like being in the ocean and having waves crashing on you and you're just getting your head above water just to get enough breath and then boom you're getting another one crashing down upon you and um you are you know out of breath you're

56:33struggling for survival and you know and you're just doing your best to you know to come up a moment like that and a fight like that has got to be something that fuels you in a way that nothing else can when you're in the gym cuz you know that those moments can happen like when you're thinking about slowing down in a strength and conditioning program or when you're doing rounds in the bag and you're thinking about slowing down that moments like thinking about that fight mhm I mean that has got to be yeah yeah that's something tangible that you can grab on to when you're hitting those th those those points you're hitting your your your Edge and you don't know if you can go any any farther that that sort of thing can bring you through you know there's the debate in MMA like what is the most important aspect of training is it strength and conditioning is it skill

57:24training how do you how do you quantify that when it comes to a fight camp and uh one of the things that Nick kerson was saying when I talked to him about is like he believes that when a fighter comes to him or when a fighter is preparing for a fight they already have all these skills they already know how to fight they already know how to kickbox they know already know Jiu-Jitsu when it comes down to what a camp is he believes that the the primary focus should be on physical preparation the primary focus should be on getting your body to be able to perform at an extreme ex high output for a long time and recover quickly and if you can get there that the benefits of that are greater than the benefits of just consistently working on skill training and Drilling and all these other things um I think there has to be a balance because you can be in phenomenal shape ready

58:13to go five rounds and then step out and get knocked the out in a couple seconds um so and or you could you could freeze up you know so I think the the the mental aspect of it and the psychological aspect is super super important do you drill anything like that do you do you have a mental coach or do you have uh visualization drills or anything along those lines um I visualize I do but um you I've done this quite a bit you know I uh coach I work with Ricky Lindell talks about bringing it to the moment you know it's it's about being a game day player I love Ricky by the way he's awesome absolutely great Grappler super smart guy and just cool as hell yeah yeah love that guy good allaround dude for sure but um being a day player you know you get a lot of these guys in the gym they World beaters but then you know the bell rings they're under the bright lights and they

59:05just they Wilt yeah and the doubts and come haunting home yeah well you and then you get these other guys you're like really he's he's fighting who in the UFC and you see him training you're like oh man I don't I don't know how well this I don't know if I want to watch this he's a nice guy he's going to get worked and and then he goes out there you know and and does work and Rises to the occasion and accomplishes something that you know maybe you and maybe not even he realized that he could do yeah it's it's an interesting thing to try to figure out where the balance where the focus should be and I think it's different for everybody man it's different for every there's no there's no one answer that's the thing about martial arts like I've heard some I heard this guy talking about this once that it's not an art you know that it's just people beating each other up and

59:53I'm like wow that is such an ignorant thing to say because when you watch someone fight you are watching art it's just violent it's a violent art when I watch like your fight with Thiago Alves you can't tell me that was an art that was an artistic performance like your interpretation of the movements and the moment to step in and blast That Elbow that's that's that's a beautiful thing I mean it's not beautiful to him or anybody who cares about him or his facial structure or that's that's it's Beauty there's Beauty in that there's Beauty in that and and you know there's Beauty when he did that to Matt Hughes and when he hit Matt Hughes that flying knee it's there's Beauty in martial arts there there is it's uh well for me it it always has been a creative Outlet I can put together all these sequences and all these different things in in a way to solve a particular problem right while

60:48something somebody else is trying to do the same thing against me and the margin for error is really thin you know I if I Zig when I should have zagged I'm catching a shin upside my head and I'm you know there's going to be bone exposed and um you know that's why this is a great thing that's why that's why MMA is so cool it's so cool to watch but the the preparation for one night like the idea that you're especially for a guy like you who came off of a knee surgery you're out for a year and then you have the how you were out for more than a year before the Thiago fight right how long was it probably uh 16 months so you have all this time building up to this one moment how difficult is it to just to just be in the moment when that happens and not be overwhelmed by the fact that so much of your future is riding on this you're not in entirely set for life

61:51financially yet you know there's all these different variables you have a wife you have a child you have a family you have obligations you have all these things but yet here you are preparing for this one completely just it's like it just slips through your fingers this moment this moment that's just there you cannot you can't hold down and you're you're sharing this moment with another trained killer and you're just locked into a cage and your future rides on your success yeah um I I like to say that you know fight day you know that night could be the best night of your life or or the worst and you don't know which one and there's an incredible mix of emotions and I feel I feel happy I feel sad I feel nervous I feel um uh you know elated to be to be there and then scared as and I don't want to do this anymore and I really just have to write it out and be and and

62:55Trust in my training trust in the preparation that I've done up to that point um because man my mind and my emotions do all sorts of things but I just have to know that I've done what I need to do in preparation um for this fight that I'm going to be all right and that no matter what I know that I will never give anything less than 100% than than my best I I will never give anything less than you know what you saw in in that fight um I may get knocked out um but or you know it may may be an early night for me it may be a terrible night but that's out of my control I I gave um everything that I could to each each round each training session uh each each minute of of of the training camp so that um when I when I step out there I've done everything in my my control to win this fight and and to compete to the best of my ability um there's also the things that are out of

63:52your control you can't worry about that injuries fight or catching that one that you don't see you know and and you know happens but that's kind of the that's the uh it's the thrill of it does that make the highlights sweeter knowing that those those you know the bad moments are out there that they're possible oh yeah definitely I it's like I said we're we're walking on a razor Razor's Edge on this thing I mean it could it could be a phenomenal night it could be Terri terrible night me I don't know nobody's died in MMA at this point but not in the UFC not in the UFC but you know that could happen this is a tough thing what are your what's your feelings on weight cutting like if you if you could be assured that the weight cutting would be out of the picture like let's just throw all the weight glasses out and let's just say like whatever what do you walk

64:49around at like 185 190 something like that uh yeah between 190 195 if you could be a that that is just that's what your opponent's going to weigh that's what you're going to weigh you don't have to cut any weight would you wouldn't you think that that would be a better way to compete to just completely eliminate that from the equation just find out whatever is your natural healthy weight and compete at that instead of this insane thing that everyone's doing where they're dehydrating themselves a massive percentage of your body weight sometimes it's much as 10% of your body weight just getting sucked away in water to the point where you could literally only exist in that state for a short period of time couple hours yeah yeah that's bananas that that's a part of cage fighting that one day to me I I feel like the athletic commissions are sleeping on a potential Time Bomb

65:44they're just ignoring that this is a huge issue while they're concentrating on steroids and EPO and all these other things which are real issues those things are unquestionably real issues but just as big of an issue is massive dehydration 24 hours before a cage fight especially now that they've eliminated um the IV rehydration methods and the fact that we know now there's Medical Science has proven that the brain does not rehydrate as fast as the rest of the tissue it takes longer takes as much as 70 hours or uh yeah 70 hours to which is crazy for the yeah to rehydrate your brain um yeah I I think it'd be interesting to see different proposals I know that 1fc is doing something um they've eliminated it they yeah what are they they're going to check your hydration levels they're going to eliminate weight cutting yeah well I know that they're doing the

66:45hydration levels on like a a Collegiate and high school wrestling um you know uh level and I still I still know guys that are trying to gain that system yeah well let him try to game that system but if you can eliminate that and test hydration levels like imagine like a guy like Johnny Hendricks who never made it to the fight with Tyron Woodley because of the weight cutting imagine them getting to a point where they check them they go hey man you're dehydrated you can't fight yeah like you you didn't make weight like you you're not where you're supposed to be yeah I I'm on the side of Health for Fighters man and and these and guys taking k care of themselves you know we're doing this for a very brief period of time in our lives and you know the repercussions long term from a lot of the a lot of the different stuff involved um including weight cutting uh you know this this is

67:38going to have long-term R ramifications so for interal organs specifically kidneys right yeah man and and I think it ages you man it it it especially if you're not doing it correctly especially if you're not living a healthy lifestyle year round all of a sudden boom I'm going to change the way that I eat so drastically that my body is going to freak the out which you see a lot of these guys and then they don't make it to the they don't make it to the weigh in because their system isn't used to eating like this I'm used to you know eating a bunch of and now I'm all of a sudden eating greens which is good for you but your body's still going to have this this this reaction to it when you're not used to it uh so yeah I would I would definitely like to see some change um you know if it benefits the health of Fighters I'm all for it I don't think it could possibly not

68:25benefit them I think that would be the biggest thing that we could do even more so than I think what the what Jeff nitzki and the UFC is trying to do with eliminating performance enhancing drugs is awesome I love the fact they're catching people I can't believe that they caught yel Romero who would have thought that that guy was taking steroids that's crazy who would have thought that that's amazing a couple of those guys man I would have never believed it him or Hector Lumbard was another one who saw that coming that's nuts VOR Belford are you kidding me nuts cyborg really wow crazy yeah I think that uh it's it's awesome because um I mean we're we're going to come to a point in time in the real near future where it's impossible to cheat yeah I mean they're pretty close to it now they're pretty close to it now where they're so good at catching people but

69:18they're they're also saving urine which I think is fascinating see urine and blood for eight years yep to test it in case they don't test that detects whatever it is you're testing at this point we can test you down the down the way you know and you could you can come up Highway which is that is cool they're super close to be able to catch you doing anything now but what they're doing is they're coming up with all these little designer things and peptides and that's what yoel Romero got caught for some designer peptide which artificially increases your body's own production of testosterone you know so they're doing all this sneaky weird that used to be totally uh undetectable you know five six years ago or what have you yeah well that I think that's what they've been doing for a long time correct like they it's been like an arms race between the the dopers and the

70:06anti-d doopers um with that's what I understand with the um Lance Armstrong it was like a constant thing man they were like some some super sophisticated programs to to beat these tests yeah and with Lance Armstrong one of the the interesting things was everybody was dirty I mean it's not like MMA where you have there's a few guys that uh nitzki I think he said calls it the smell test or the Look test where you look at them and you go hm the going on over there right you know but with uh Armstrong like none of those guys looked like y Romero they were just little skinny guys on bikes yeah it's a nature of the sport and I think what they were probably what they were taking is different than what you know what big muscled up uh you know prize Fighters are taking well another important distinction uh about these bands and about the Banning of um IV rehydration is now you can't blood

71:07dope because they used to be able to blood dope used to be able to pretty pretty easy to just take your blood out and reinsert it into your body you have more blood and you get the same sort of benefits that you would get with EPO so you can't do that anymore because they'll they'll be able to detect they can actually detect Plastics in the blood that come from the bags and from the tubes it's nuts man that's wild it's nuts it's crazy what they can do I've heard I've heard though like in you know we're talking about the arms race that people can use uh glass arrange glass glass and then um the vein like uh sterilized veins from animals as they're as they're tubing that's that's what I oh my god oh my God that's so crazy yeah like sausage casing and oh my God that's now they're going to fck check for pig veins and down the rabbit hole with like all that stuff that's I mean well nitzky was

72:10telling me that they they've now figured out a way to develop testosterone from animals and it's uh semi theoretical at this point with they don't they haven't caught anybody who's done it yet and that maybe one of the reasons why they're you know they're holding on to this blood for eight years but he said they've figured out a way cuz right now I I don't understand the process but right now the way they develop artificial testosterone is through wild yams they use Mexican yams I don't understand it but somehow through yams they can develop testosterone the yams are manly manly yams I've always said I am what I am that's why papey papey knew he was ahead of the time they make me feel manly so they've figured out a way through these carbon isotope tests to detect that the testosterone in your body was non-endogenous that it was exogenous it somehow or another came from from

73:06something else but they won't be able to do this EXA right now at least with animal testosterone which is so bizarre it will always be a race between the the the cheaters and those who control those uh with the French uh tto France C cyclism uh biking and uh back in the the early 20th century they were doing it already mhm and then today every Sunday there's some competition somewhere like a local short distance trlin and those you know Sunday athletes and they don't yeah they're saying that like Executives that want to like show off are taking EPO and entering in triathlons and winning them like so they they can put that on their resum Jack to the tits on EPO which is really dangerous apparently I don't understand EPO but the way it's been described to me was that when you have so much extra blood in your system there there's a high risk of stroke and

74:05that you have to mitigate the amount of EPO and the amount of blood in your system by constantly exercising like you have to exercise you have to drink water and exercise otherwise your blood gets too thick wow as we talk millions of people are doing crazy things in their day-to-day life uh that are getting to mess up with their brain mess up with their physiology and hormonal balance and stuff like that and they're not getting paid to do it they just do it out of whatever ignorance or laziness or uh so why wouldn't these professional athletes some of them especially in Combat Sports yeah yeah I mean there's one thing winning winning a bike race is one thing but not getting kicked in the head or being able to kick the guy in the head because you have that extra juice of energy you know when you're tired and you're in that fifth round but you come out because you're on EPO and you're

74:53dominant Cru stepping and throwing high kicks and the other dude is gasping for air that's that's where it becomes a huge issue absolutely I mean we're talking you know potentially life life and death sure well the way I describe MMA is it's highlevel problem solving with dire physical consequences and that's and we we've seen it we've all seen guys get flatlined we've all seen people I mean you've done it to a bunch of guys inside the octagon and it could have been you you know I mean it's it's a a nutty Sport and in this sport the doping has just a much higher level of it's consequences ramifications ramifications what's interesting to me though I'm absolutely anti-doping but I'm Pro the science involved in it because what we're experiencing right now what I believe is that we are in a period of time in human history where our understanding and the scientific

75:50understanding of the body and its mechanisms and all the things they can do to it is being sort of deciphered and tweaked and poked by all these various scientists although I believe that that should be outside of competitive Athletics we're going to get to a point in you know who knows 10 20 30 years where they're going to be able to genetically re-engineer human beings and this is all going to be out the window I think we're kind of experiencing the last years of natural competition MH yeah Jean doping kind stuff it's going to happen I mean they have this new thing uh that they've uh they they've figured out how to do or they because of Mo this this really interesting science it's it's called crisper is what they've uh developed and there's I'll butcher it if I try to give the scientific definition of it but they can literally add genes and and manipulate genes and

76:45they're doing so in small animals and you know small multicellular organisms and they're they're getting it to uh a point where they really understand it and they're saying that in China they're starting to do this with human beings and they're starting to with it and test it and you know you might see some Chinese Wolverine type dudes in the next 20 years and you'll know well that that kid's the product of these Chinese experiments you know I mean that's what they used to call Kellan they used to call Kellan the experiment because if you've ever seen kellan's family his mother and father like 5'6 they're like these tiny people and Kellan was this monster of a wrestler you know have you do you know who we're talking about Alexander Kellin I've never heard of him though undefeated wrestler I mean he lost one time to Ru on Gardner but the only reason why he lost is they

77:36changed the rule they changed the rule that this is greo so crazy whereas if you release your grip if someone gets you to release your grip it's a point which is insane and that's how Gardner beat him like he couldn't do anything to him but he got Kellin towards the end of his career you know I mean he'd been wrestled forever but he would he was so scary that guys would try to flatten out to keep from getting thrown by him cuz he was so strong that he would take these men 280lb men and he would just go under them while their belly down flattened out on the mat just praying they don't get taken for a ride and he would lift them up and throw them through the air with all his weight and their weight Boom coming down on them so he's essentially knocking them the out with the mat where everybody else was wrestling you know he was wrestling as well but he was also hitting you with

78:27the world you know it's it was crazy and no one knows how he got so big in history of sport there are always these these freak of nature this completely exceptional athlete in a in a given in a given sport but with what you say and the the manipulations they're going to be able to do on on physiology maybe using n nanot Technologies or indeed uh uh genetic modifications they might be able to replicate to clone those those freaks of of science oh they're going to if it doesn't happen in our lifetimes it will happen in our children's lifetimes it's going to happen science doesn't stop I mean it's if you go just go back 4050 years what they were able to do if you had a knee surgery you know like you're talking about your knee graft they you were back then you were you're crippled bum yeah that's just 50 years ago that's that's inside of a living person's lifetime well 20 25 years ago

79:26or less they they weren't able to do this one that I had successfully yes my friend Steve Graham was on the US ski team and he's had some insane number of surgeries I I I want to say he's around 18 knee surgeries he's he has his knees capped like I'll show you this you'll freak out he has his knees resurfaced the tops of his knees are um It's All Steel it's bizarre man it's so it's so freaky to look at but he came around uh when they were doing all these experimental surgeries they just they just couldn't they just didn't know how to do it they just were taking all these risks and here it is right here let me show you this this is freaky that's the surface of the inside of his knee so he has no more cartilage wow and uh all the meniscus is gone as well so if you see that white thing down there that's artificial meniscus okay that's a like a pad that they put in

80:25place so they put this artificial pad in place then they have the tops of the knee the top of the femur and and that Glides upon the on the the plastic looks like an obstruct painting to me it's chaos it's like dinner yeah I I told him dude you got to send me this after you get your latest operation because he's had so many operations he was so chewed down to the wire that this is this is the the latest sort of fix that's wild man it's crazy and she's had multiple ACL surgeries on both legs MCL just the whole deal meniscus Scopes and this and that there's nothing left they they predicted that uh so many years ago when I was a kid uh Steve tin whatever the name was man right it was fascinating by then yeah well we're close to that I mean they're putting artificial hips in people and having them being more more durable than the natural hips Yep they're also using

81:25exoskeletons uh especially in Japan they're really big on all these robotics I got one of those I got in an exoskeleton I find it beautiful uh for people who really need it uh you had a very serious accident there's nothing you can do but it's not your responsibility or you you come back from war and you need that that kind of assistance in that case I believe it's beautiful yes but my my concern is that this kind of new technology is going to be avable to uh millions of people who basically don't give a crap about their body their body has become complete uh alant to themselves and they neglect it and they let it deteriorate you could you could think about it that way or you could say you know what man it's just technology it's it could be used or abused I mean like cars I mean cars could be used to get places or you could be a fat and they just wheel you

82:17over to your car and you ooze your way into the car and they push you in and shut the door then the car drives you around cuz you're too lazy it's the balance and I think in our society we always go too far it's like that exoskeleton for your body becomes what the the the shoe is to your foot and I think that's your your point is that your your your foot is going to um atrophy or your your body is going to atrophy because you have you know your foot has this artificial Arch but from birth like in Wally you know uh that you you and then you're like the thing is that yeah it's Freedom it's individual Freedom you do whatever you want completely agree with that but ultimately it becomes the norm it becomes something that's not shocking anymore like uh in the the Wally World uh the that movie in the end not being able to even stand let alone to walk is not shocking it's it's the norm it's

83:12just something normal my grandma was able to walk a little a few steps wow she was extremely fit that we CH ultimately through generations we changed the norm and so yeah I won't be there you won't be there we won't be there yeah but somewhat I'd like to know that we're getting in in a good direction howy direction not to kind of I don't know if it's definitely crazy I don't know if it is a bad Direction but if we went back to single- cell organism like God look at these with their multiple cells back when I was a kid you had to have one cell and you were happy so I don't think I don't think it's good or bad I think it's how how it's applied yes you know and and is it beneficial is it um right is it detrimental and what is the implication on like a societal level on like an overall thing we can look at Tech techn you know the technology in general in in that respect um I like to

84:12see that as a as a an as options as additional benefits to our current society and culture means that let's imagine Utopia like Society where every individual would be would consider their their own health and movement ability as somewhat their personal biological Duty so they would really make sure that they stay strong they stay healthy they they can move they're they're they're in shape they're sharp physically and mentally and on top of that whenever needed they would punctually and wisely use those Technologies then that would be an enhanced lifestyle in society but when you have people it's just there to support people who have voluntarily disempowered themselves degenerated themselves I I I don't I don't like the direction that would be aren't we basing that on the current Paradigm though if we keep moving in the same direction it's entirely possible that you're not

85:09going to need to be in shape or get in shape you're just going to be in shape you're going to have something that they've invented whether it's some sort of a biotechnology or what have you where you never get out of shape you're always physically fit your body regenerates tissue if you lose an arm it grows back yes and no it doesn't mean because here's the problem you won't be the master of a technology somebody else will the same way it's like if you everybody stop everybody stop growing their food MH so when you're hungry you need that food to be delivered to you to be produced for you if at some point the production of food is in the hands of very little very few people there's no Freedom anymore okay so so you say yeah but it allows you to be always stronger always fit always healthy yeah but the technology is in the hands of the few people and when they want to take it

86:00back that sound like some Illuminati type but but but it's it's it's it's it's it's that you don't have to go into a conspiracy theory to think about do you are you in control is it something that you can fix yourself like when you have a car or a bow or something can you fix the technology yourself does it belong to you do you control it or not I think you're talking about in things in practical in a practical sense and I agree with you in a practical sort of a pragmatic approach I'm extrapolating a hundred years from now when all it's nonsense because I'm saying there's going to become a time in the future where there are no natural athletes because there's no natural people we're probably yeah we're just a few years away from being symbiotically connected to electronics we're pretty close now with phones you leave the house without your phone you freak out very few people

86:57live without a car you know you have your navigation system to get you around I only remember like three or four phone numbers now when I was a kid I remembered everybody's number I could be able to call my friends I could be able to call my house I barely know my own home number now when I so I give some of my cell phone number I have to think you know I have to think about that number so you give up you you do give up some of your control you give you get Google you get you get all sorts of good as well I I think true and the bad that comes with it though um so you know what 50 years ago they started or maybe longer I don't know uh they started making uh processed foods and that was like the best thing ever oh my God we don't have to cook our food anymore we throw you know have it made for us in a factory and we just throw it in the oven and it's done boom

87:45this is the greatest thing ever you know fast forward you know 30 40 years and now we're fat and unhealthy and our and you know and our our national GDP you know for for our health care is am you know or our health care cost exceeds our gross domestic product for the United States and we're just you know there's there's good parts of it yeah they made they probably made food safer in a sense less people are dying from leria outbreaks and that sort of thing but on the flip side of that now we're really sick and fat I 100% agree with you Carlos because it's not like you could say say wait that's we won't be very when this will happen it there will be some uh adverse consequences to all this to all this but we won't see it it's already here it's already altering people's life today as we speak the people are listening to us maybe you know suffering from this and

88:43that they don't even know why well maybe you're surrounded by thousands and thousands of chemicals in all your hygiene product that you know that you breathe that go through your pores that go in your system that alter your hormonal uh uh homeostasis and stuff like that maybe you're eating GMO maybe everything is altered in your day-to-day life and you see it as something normal means you don't see it basically and doesn't doesn't bother you you're not conscious of it but it does bother you in how well you live well and and ultimately somebody's profiting off right you know then that's the thing is with with with any of this stuff I mean it will become the norm of somebody's profiting off it if they can sell it to you if they can if they can convince you that this is better whether it is or whether it's not but you know through you know whatever they already

89:34selling water to us maybe they'll sell air to us pure air aren't they in some places can't you buy canned air in China me you think they buy canned air with a little mask on it you suck the canned air I've done that Japan actually it's pretty wild made my made my veins blue what wild yeah what yeah yeah cuz you had so much pure oxygen you could get it at like 7-Eleven over there next to the the weird squid hot dogs I did uh an oxygen bar once in Vegas they remember they used to have those still around I think they do you put like a little pipe up your nose and I'm supposed to be like what am I supposed to be getting out of this yeah it's like one of those oxygen things you see old smokers roll around with totally and the thing goes up your nose these little tubes go up your nose and we're were sitting there okay what am I supposed to feel uh of euphoria lot of

90:25extra energy and the cute chick that works there comes up and rubs your back and does that weird thing on your scalp and you kind of feel I felt good but it would come it would come to your mind to do something like that if you're in the mountain and the air is pure surrounded by trees why why on Earth would you try to put some whatever oxygen in your in your brain you don't need it well that's one of the things that I love about forests and trees is that the that you can physically feel the difference in the air because trees literally absorb carbon dioxide and express oxygen they produce oxygen you breathe it in it feels better my point is that you need these enhancements when you already live in within an environment that is tremendously deteriorated right complete altered then you're like oh my God I need better air I need more natural food I need to try to make my even my my my

91:17house a bit more complex so that it it stimulates my movement and things like that that's because you're already out of a universally I would say universally natural environment right comprising not just where you are but what you eat how you breathe the light and even your your own behaviors how much you sleep uh how you think all of that is Behavior Uh and environment right and all that will impact you positively or not in term of how how you look how well you perform how you feel it all matters all these variables matters what when what is your diet like when you're training do you have someone who monitors that stuff do you have a dietician that you work with or anything um so I worked with uh I work with mik Dolce for this last camp this last cut um I met Mike when I was when my knee was was was hurt and I was in recovery for that um was doing some

92:12seminars he was going and doing these talks at some military bases on you know diet nutrition holistic living and um they brought me out you know as the special guest or whatever and I and I you know I spoke on it too but uh our our philosophies on on food and nutrition clicked I mean they were they're pretty much aligned we have a little bit different approaches um I started learning about uh nutrition from a strength excuse me strength and conditioning coach when I was about 19 years old up to that point it was like it was you know whatever I I was eaten you know off the dollar value meal at at Wendy's really yeah yeah do during the time you're like fighting in the WC or thec no this was before then this was I was fighting in like little little casinos out in the middle of the desert now in New Mexico and like making $200 for a fight at a 400 person venue um and

93:08yeah so it was like oh if I only eat half of this four piece nuggets I'm definitely going to make weight tomorrow and yeah and and you know yeah I vividly remember those days anyway got with this guy and he just kind of taught me the basics you know basically talk me taught me about macronutrients and he mainly uh trained bodybuilders um but gave me some Basics and then since since that point um I've you know uh through my own practice through my own practical applications of running through these training camps running through um um the these weight cuts um and and absorbing information going out there and looking at information myself um have kind of figured it out on pretty much on my own and uh I cook I I love to cook that's like my my hobby and so that helps out because you know I'm I'm cooking as you know for fun like kind of as a as a cathartic thing after I'm

94:06training but it it works well because I'm you know cooking the the nutrient-dense food that I need to perform and to train and to make weight and to be a high level athlete I saw that you and irwan were working on bow hunting exercises do you do you do Bow Hunting uh yes I I started started bow hunting 3 years ago I have yet to kill anything I am not I'm I'm very much a novice yeah uh but uh you know I'm learning and uh is anybody teaching you U yeah I've gone with some guys um some some older guys that are my dad's age my dad's not an Outdoorsman at all um you know he likes to fish but you know he doesn't go farther than about 20 ft away from his car to fish so this all this stuff IR if you could back that up a bit please Jamie to the to that bow hunting thing that you just sh showed what is exactly is involved in uh these uh bow hunting exercises that you

95:05got him doing so that was in between the two camps that we did together and uh uh Carlos already knew that he was going to fight uh Robbie Lawler Lefty huh but it was uh somewhere right we were just just around both ways yeah yeah it was somewhere uh late September if I remember well and um New Mexico is the best spot to hunt elk next to Colorado I like New Mexico and Colorado are these spots in this country New Mexico is the best place to just live really you think well not let's let's not let's keep it a secret what what why do you say that um Diego Sanchez lives there no uh yes the beauty the the the Landscapes but but again it's uh other the people will prefer another place but what but there's a certain energy you know some places resonate with you more than others me I I moved to Santa Fe New Mexico never never left and and find Jessica you know my soulmate and U and

96:07everything is beautiful there and well you you look Jesus it's a perfect place to live Santa Fe it's a lot of hippies you got a a scarf on even though you're indoors it's a perfect place I'm European I can't afford it whatever you know I'm French so what you say to yeah what do you say to my scarf right you but uh so but you love you love New Mexico though love New Mexico I'm I'm a I'm a new Mexican now I can say you know I can't say like they say I born here on my life but uh you definitely don't sound like it no I I have a a profound love for this land uh there where I live it's surrounded by 19 Pueblo so native Indian energy which I really relate to and um oh so you can go and see like these ancient sites where they used to live you can you can they still live there in some of them oh yeah right like in the mountains like tucked into the mountains uh the yeah uh

97:06well the yeah uh there's lots of reservations also mud kind of old school like like uh Stone Age apartment kind of buildings and they and they have cable and now they have um cable yeah yeah they well they got yeah they got satellites hanging off the side of them now yeah yeah oh my God that's insane if you ever come out to New Mexico I'll take you by AA bro dude I'm going I've been thinking about going to New Mexico and doing a show there for a while I want I want to do something and probably Albuquerque is a place to go right Albuquerque or Santa Fe where should I go uh Santa Fe is an hour away so come Albuquerque and then boom and there's a lot of stuff right around come hun okay okay yeah um there's there's the the Apache jaria aach M aach reservations it's it's still there it's really lot of cool lot of cool stuff a lot of cool stuff but it's a secret let's not talk about it too

97:59late so with regards to the the bow haunting stuff honestly the stuff that we were doing wasn't a whole lot different than uh what we were working on for the training camps you know we're working um foot ankle knee hip stability in um complex environments in Walking on you know walking on logs or navigating different terrain while staying aware of my Sur suroundings you know if I'm sitting there looking at my feet and stumbling over myself and and worrying re you know so much about being quiet and where I'm standing I miss miss a goddamn you know something something right there and um feeling with your feet a saying that that Irwin has that that helped me out quite a bit is kind of a a coaching cue is put your mind in your feet um so that I'm looking here and I'm aware of what's going on around me but I can feel feel where I'm going boom I I you I I hunt in like a

98:57like minimal boots so I can you know I can feel if I'm about to crack that uh that stick and make that you know what kind of boost you wear like a lightweight they're they're called the ones I I use are called mini Mill um and they are how do you spell that uh m i n i m i l l I think is is what it is and they're they're dope man so I think initially uh the the the vim's five fingers came into Vogue in the milary they loved it right and everybody was all about the uh the minimal foot but if you go to minimal too fast you're going to hurt your feet because our feet our bones our tendons our muscles our atrophied from being in basically casts for for you know our our entire life and all of a sudden I'm going to go run a couple miles like I did in these supportive shoes and you're going to get stress fractures you're going to get all kinds of injuries um so I think the

99:51military uh a couple of the branches ban the ban the Five Finger shoes or the five yeah that's what they're called because people getting hurt because foot injuries foot Lots because people people's bodies and Physiology are just not ready structurally you have to work your way up everythingi indeed yeah this guy runs you know runs Barefoot throughout you know through the mountains you run Barefoot yeah yeah you don't wear any shoes at all no well sometimes but it depends on what I do but I do train also to uh be barefoot because it it makes you extremely sharp uh mentally you have to be extremely focused to just not injure yourself to be extremely adaptable so it doesn't just train people think oh okay so it's going to make your uh the soul of your foot tougher what about that what's special about that but that's not the point that's not there's much many more

100:44benefits Beyond just making your feet tougher it's so fascinating that when in the invention of the running shoe which what they thought was an advancement oh we're going to put cushioning it'll save people's bodies the wear and tearing and it actually W up people up and getting more injured the food is a masterpiece there's nothing to change about about it the human food is a masterpiece yeah and U yeah you try to come up with some science cutting science uh shoes Footwear it it's you just need minimal you just need minimal protection to avoid abrasion and and punctures and things like but otherwise you need to let the work uh theot work as naturally as possible and if you don't then you will make your feet weaker right it will it will it will shrink it it will numb it but then on on the flip side of that coin I can't my feet aren't strong enough to just go

101:40and run as I would normally in completely minimal shoes I have to kick back I have to kick back the intensity and the distance um so if I really want to get a really hard hard run in and and and get get fatigued I need I I throw on some some regular old running shoes shorter distances I'm I'm like specifically training my feet and you know and and and and uh uh conditioning my my tissues and everything to be able to do that and that's you know that's kind of a a distinction and and and moving so I don't hurt myself right moving moving barefoot in Wild environments is not um it's not mandatory to people say want to mandatory forgive my forgive my French I just when I have to do the math in my head as to what you're said I feel like I have to clarify for the people listening right all right well thanks that's good thanks um yeah you don't have it's it's not

102:35mandatory mandatory mandatory mandatory thanks Joe for correcting my my flawed English it's very good English it's way better than my French um you you start you start uh resetting your body in a in a in a more uh natural way through these movement patterns and you can do that in indoors environment even wearing some minimal Footwear and then you remove the Footwear and then you start to expose the body through this natural movement on more challenging more complex environments ultimately if you want to you can become you can go through these more say you know badass trainings where it's like the real deal you're in the wild there are maybe Cactus and sharp stones and all kind of things and and and and still you you can do that but that doesn't mean that you have to do that right away or that you ever have to do that right um uh the bow hunting practice was yeah the this balancing

103:31movements the point was not just the movement itself is when you move in complex environments there are also situations for instance you're hunting your goal is to catch the game so you need to be aware of what's going on you need to avoid being detected and you need to look and scan your surrounding and be as light as possible as silent as possible if you're already in trouble with your movement if you're already struggling with your movement how much of your brain activity and awareness is going to be dedicated to the situation itself which is the hunting part right because the the movement part in the in the environment part is already it's not there you're struggling uh it's not just a matter of oh I have some cardio so I'm good no well maybe you have a hard time just kneeling just getting up and getting down let alone in a Supple silent move way that is not deductible

104:32so were training bow hunting in particular sort of experienced this uh most recently um this Fitness uh Mo movement where a lot of guys are getting in extremely good shape to be able to run the mountains to so that they can hike long distances and not be fatigued and so that they can take sh shots like and have some Mobility where you can be on your knees and for long periods of time you might be have to be held at fil full draw while an animal's looking at you after having run up a a hill and you're you're fatigue yeah yeah and it's the difference between being successful and not being successful mean today's day you can still go to the supermarket But ultimately what it means is whether or not you can eat or not eat so you have to be in physical shape to be able to do that kind of hunting and a lot of it is at high altitude so you're tregging through the mountains

105:23both the body and mind have to deal with so many diverse variable changing and that's that's again that's adaptability it's it's about adaptability I got the the chance of uh to to train the the seals in Coronado and these guys are well number one they are gentlemen they're real good good people but uh they are extremely fit from the The Stance the standpoint of how much they can rent how much they can endure but I would challenge them with very simple movements such as some of the movements we've TR together with Carlos uh the when you are in that split squat position and you pivot reverse your orientation from forward to backward uh and while maybe holding a stick that represents a rifle or a bow or could be a camera if you're shooting photos so if you're struggling with that movement you have imbalances how much again of your situational awareness can be dedicated

106:23to the situation at hand right at stake that's a good point because you're surviving the movement excuse me and then stay stay close to the mic oh all right and then for a split second or maybe for a little longer uh you're in trouble so in in in a cage situation it's very similar because you need to always keep an eye on your opponent so you need that situational awareness while also not having to think exclusively at how you move so the more uh comfortable your movement the more flid the more second nature it becomes then the more attention your brain can dedicate to the situation and to the adaptability the range the timing all of these subtle little adaptations and your brain is in charge your brain commands not the body so the body needs to be able to uh to to to move uh in in highly reliable way ultimately that it is the movement itself or the situational

107:22situational um awareness it all boils down to the brain what I was getting at before with the the bow hunting is uh and with regards to your diet like do you eat wild game or do you get like what I do yeah um mainly I eat uh grass-fed free range uh Meats um I get as much Wild game as I can like I said I didn't kill anything the last two years but the people that I I did go with did they they they har harvested elk um so you know I we all share the meat um so yeah I eat as as as much Wild game as possible cuz I feel like that's I mean that's about as pure as you can get yeah it's it really is healthy too when you eat it it does have like a different effect on your body you can feel it if you're if you're health conscious and if you're aware of what you're taking in on a regular basis you're sort of aware of how your body reacts you'll see you'll feel different when you eat wild game

108:18it's just more nutrient dense yeah yeah and and there's you know there's other aspects to it man when you when you see the animal die or you kill the animal there's just a a sense of gratitude I feel like for this thing giving its life to nourish your body as opposed to buying something in a nice little neat package with Saran Wrap over it you don't you don't really think that a life was you know was separated um to give you to to nourish your body but when you when you go out and you you see it or it's you know it's in front of you you realize you know that you're a little bit more connected to what you're putting in your body and I think that disconnect is a part of the um the the the problem with our with our our food you know I guess sickness our food culture that we you know that were they were experiencing these days the Gratitude is certainly an aspect of it

109:13and also the connection just an understanding a real understanding of what happened how you got there what what this meal is and it just it has it feels better it feels better to eat it yeah yeah it's a mix of things you actually feel as opposed to just not even thinking about it yeah just oh this is awesome now Mike Dolce you're saying uh works with you for or worked with you for this last Camp what was the difference like what what different things did you eat and what what approach did you take did you do any blood work to examine your nutrient levels I did not I didn't do any blood work um the was we didn't change what I was eating we changed the structure and the timing of when I was eating um I I was kind of uh you know I did I didn't have much of a structure I was like oh you know I'm I'm eating the right things um I'm I'm good um he he's like okay well no this is this

110:13is how we're going to do we're going to you know you're going to do you're going to sit down and you're going to eat till you're full every 3 hours you're going to have do feedings you're not going to kind of snack and graze here and there which is what I was doing um and uh dude it it increased my energy levels um immensely how so in what way I felt awesome so I don't know why I don't know the physiology behind it but um I think it's uh hormonal I think I so after I would eat these big meals boom I would get I would get tired I I would get like a um in kind of insulin dump you know be tired for a little while but the next time I went to train like I just felt like I had had more fuel um you know more energy more sustenance for these training sessions um and uh uh my weight cut was I I've never had a weight cut as as easy as that we were eating you know

111:07full large meals right up until the night or even the night night before weigh-ins what I was I was I was I came down so quickly and I I kind of have a weird deal man I I feel like my body I've I've cut weight so many times I have you know 40 plus professional you know fights you know between kickboxing and MMA and I think my body just kind of knows it just drops even Mike's like dude I've kind of never worked with an athlete that just boom boom it's just it's just on a schedule it just my my weight drops um and uh yeah but I felt I felt amazing I felt good in the fight I think I look good in the fight I performed well um the the cut was the cut was awesome so you're eating big meals I mean fairly big relative relatively big meals how many calories are they counted out so I would say I would have probably a uh an 8 O portion of um of salmon um probably a cup of

112:09white rice and then a good amount of vegetables um you know we're talking about you know several times a day really yeah wow that's interesting because most people think of weight Cuts being that you know you severe restrict the amount of calories you have your body starts to go into ketosis or what have you starts absorbing fat instead of uh instead of carbohydrates you dehydrate yourself then after that and that's how you get to that state yeah well I mean that's one way to do it um and I've definitely done that way before I've done it a bunch of shitty ways what's the worst way you've ever done it not the chicken nuggets way but I mean like as as an right around that same time uh not not eating I remember so my my first kickboxing fight ever I fought a guy named Andy sour I don't know if you're familiar with Andy s was your first kickboxing fight first

113:01kickboxing fight ever what the is that yeah who's your manager how long had Andy been fighting then he his his record at the time I remember 62 and four something 93 and one oh my God that's so insane 93 And1 and I was your first kickboxing F oh my God so I was 12-0 as an MMA as MMA fighter oh my God I was 19 years old um I had maybe one or two amateur boxing fights and I had been training him I've been training kickboxing for a long time but anyway I go to he had 90 what 90 93 and one I remember oh my God how what governing body sanctioned that uh it was in Japan oh I was I was I was the guy they wereing Japan exactly I was the guy that they were bringing in for the slaughter oh my God and uh I I show up out there and I'm only I think I remember I was only like eight pounds out and we didn't know what the we were doing with with regards to the weight cut at the time I was 19 and so

114:01I'm like oh and I just stop eating I just didn't eat for about 4 days oh no yeah oh no that's so meanwhile 8 lbs ain't like today be like I'll do that yeah the day before 8 lb like oh we're good yep exactly still still eating one day in the sauna yeah yeah my God and so I starved myself for about 4 days and were you checking your weight while you're starving yourself yeah I think I was I don't I don't remember it was a long time ago but it was same day weigh-ins too oh Christ I weighed in in the morning and then fought about maybe eight or nine hours later oh my God and uh I went five rounds with him wow I went I I it it I got I got my ass kicked I got my ass kicked but I I learned a lot and I Grew From The Experience I would imagine holy Andy sour is a legend yeah yeah that is so crazy that was your first kickboxing he tko'ed me with 17 seconds left to go he Cho my he

115:06had chopped my legs down to the point where I couldn't even stand I was falling through the ropes I was all up wow yeah it was awesome though man it was dope it was cool I I went back in I I came back to Albuquerque I went down down to the gym and these guys have been kind of throwing me around up to that point I spec specifically remember Diego Sanchez I mean at the time he's like King of the cage Champion he was like the man the New Mexico man of Jackson and you know he always gave me you know really really really tough fight at or tough sparring sparring matches at at the point and after I went through that experience it was just kind of like ah you can't do to me wow nothing just changed you yeah that's interesting that's amaz but what a crazy matchup that is that's criminal you find out whoever matched you up and go beat their ass I know I know who did it I'm glad I I

115:57shake their hand you know that it that that shaped me you know yeah well for you for a guy like you you could handle it but godamn that could have the St syndrome stockholmes right yeah right yeah becoming friends with your captors it's that's that's insane man what a crazy matchup yeah I've never seen I've never seen it I've never seen a video of it I think it's out there wow I think even Andy sour hit me up on one of the social media you know it's like asking if I had ever seen it I'm like no had up to this point have not it was under shoot boxing rules so shoot boxing I don't know if you're familiar was um build as no holds B standup so it was throws and takedowns with kickboxing okay no elbows like draa remember when they used to do that they were doing that in the United States for a while was kickboxing with takedowns I don't remember that but it

116:56it that's that's what this was supposed to be my Smith did that for a little bit and standing submissions and yeah you were supposed to be able to do standing submissions and I actually caught him in in a few chokes standing and and I think the rules were if the guy hits his knees he's they they break it and they stop it wow yeah I don't know it was weird it was it it was cool man it was it was a good experience I was 19 years old got to go to Japan yeah fight for I know probably 500 bucks I don't even remember how it was Japan's crazy did you see ryzen what's that did you see ryzen the Japanese um the the new year show with Fedor I did not yeah ultimate freak show it was awesome cool yeah it was almost like kind of like early days of Pride where it was like kind of chaotic like Gabby Garcia was there 220 lbs I saw that fight yeah juice to the earlobes she she got dropped right she

117:57did off theat but she came back and she cracked the chick with a back fist back fist coming back man Arlovski with Travis Brown he landed a backfist oh this one yeah a regular back fist not a spinning back fist a regular back fist just the pimp hand just the back backand pimp hand but uh it was two days of fights wow yeah sakuraba it might have been more than two days sakuraba fought Aoki which was just criminal they shouldn't let sakuraba fight anymore it's just awful to watch how old is he now it's not how old he is it's the miles you know he's probably younger than Anderson you know if I had a guess I would I would say he's younger than Anderson but the beatings that guy's taking did you see the Melvin manh fight when Melvin was Soccer kicking him and he's down oh it's so hard to watch those vanderlay knockouts that he suffered those are brutal those ruthless

118:54that guy's been through the ringer you know he's he's so C what a legend though that guy is what a legend absolutely I remember the first time I saw Pride I saw him fighting hoist Gracie and just wasting him that was that 90minut fight that was that 90minut one and he had he had hoist in that that like dead to wr's knee bar and ho would not tap I forget what ended up happening was it a draw decision yeah well it was a draw cuz they went the 90 minutes and nothing happen I think it was a draw I think that that's how they they no no no no no ho broke his ankle that's right didn't he break his ankle and he couldn't continue why do I not remember that Jamie will pull it up he'll find out all right cool there was two fights they had another one in K1 and that was in America I was there live for that one and hoist was Juiced up he was big he was yolked up then he tested positive

119:46and uh they finded him a fuckload of money I don't know if he ever paid it but he vanished but now he's back he's fighting which is crazy he's fighting Ken shamro I saw that on on bellor yeah it's the main event in February that's crazy yeah it's so strange yeah I remember their fight was the first fight I ever saw was first UFC fight I had ever seen sakuraba and ho no no no Canon and Canon Canon ho and ho was choking the CH choked him with his ghe and it was wild man that was the early days man the first fight I ever saw was Orlando versus um Remco paru mhm when Remco paru took him down and elbowed the out of him and from side control or he had him like that Jud scarf and I remember watching that going Jesus Christ what kind of crazy sport is this and the the Paro guy kind of hits him a few times and he kind of look he's like surprised that he's knocked out and he

120:45kind of just lets him go the refs at the time would just let them melee each other oh my God Big John Big John was one of the refs back then which is crazy you remember when um uh what the is his name fought that ninja dude Pat Pat Smith Pat Smith fought some dude who was like doing like they had his his pre-fight video and his pre-fight video he's doing like ninja techniques and like all this crazy that doesn't really work and then he got in there with Pat Smith who's a pretty seasoned kickboxer yeah and it was dropping just Wicked elbows on him and like from the like knocked him out and woke him up and then knocked him out again before the ref stopped yeah well he got up it was just a bath of blood his whole head was essentially opened up boy that was the early days man the early days were really fascinating because you you were around martial arts

121:39before the UFC so you had seen like you know you'd seen karate and you'd seen all these different Judo and all this different stuff and nobody really knew what the best stuff was MH I always knew that wrestlers could take you down I was knew that was going to be a problem cuz I I wrestled in high school and I had a good buddy of mine my friend uh Steven Arduino when I was doing uh Taekwondo and he was wrestling one of the reasons why I got into wrestling is cuz I didn't think that he could take me down like we're out in the grass he's like I could take you down anytime I want I'm like he took me down over and over again I was like this is crazy it was so humiliating like he was just he just took me down every time he wanted to and I was like this is mad I got to start wrestling so I started wrestling that's one of the reasons why I started another one a dude got me in a headlock and

122:21threw me down in the locker room it could have beat me up but didn't I was like God damn it I'm frail so I had to learn wrestling but I always knew that wrestlers could take you down if they wanted to but I always felt like a guy who uh knew a little bit of wrestling was a good kickboxer would probably be able to keep the fight standing but then when Hoy started choking people I was like oh no this a whole different thing this is a completely different thing that guy beat that guy from his back who the wins on their back like it was just a whole new element mhm you know it's interesting because you've been around from the wec days which were when you were the wec champ like it was it it was so small in comparison to what it is now for you to go from that to that last fight against Robbie in Vegas which was just this massive media event you're fighting for the

123:15world title you get there the place is sold out it's craziness the Roar of the crowd you know it's time and you like what a Odyssey you've been through in your career cuz you you were there sort of when it was kind of just starting to take off yeah yeah I I really got in on kind of the ground level yeah I mean yeah even before wec I told you we're fighting at like 200 300 person venues at the middle of middle of the desert it's been crazy man it's been um it's it's been an incredible ride and it has been coolest thing ever man I wanted to as a young kid none of this existed and but I was into you know the like early 90s martial arts movies and the Ninja Turtles and I wanted to be a I wanted to be a ninja that's what I wanted to do of course I remember my that was the second movie that I had ever seen was the first Ninja Turtles movie and I came out of there what chut

124:14chut throwing kicks and spinning and and uh every you know from then on I was training to be something and just so happened I lived in a time that this came to be and lived in a city where there was this camp that was you know by you know kind of inexplicably good um for a small Podunk place like Albuquerque but not just inex explicably good for the what it was but also for the time and it evolved whereas a lot of those camps that were big back then like the Lion's Den they're gone you know the pat milotic's gym it's gone like these these gyms that were really big at the time they didn't evolve or they didn't carry on or for whatever reason they stopped doing it you know your your gym is not just evolved but evolved to be one of the Premier gyms in the world it's really kind of incredible yeah and and there's been a lot of change you know some like a lot of the original

125:17guys have branched off and are kind of doing their own thing but um um yeah that the the Genesis of MMA and Albuquerque is kind of an interesting story um and I and I don't I wasn't there I was like told this I you know this is kind of you know firsthand hearsay from the people who who did develop this thing is that basically these guys from these different disciplines got together and they had watched the UFC and wanted to oh you know I'm I have a wrestling background this guy has a kmo background this guy's like a you know a a AKA karate kind of background whatever they all got together and they started formulating the and this one guy was a a flight attendant and he was flying all over the country and every everywhere he'd stop he would he would go to these different schools um because there wasn't the internet at the time there you couldn't jump on YouTube and

126:13look at techniques so he would go the guy's name is Chris Latrell and he he cornered me for uh my my fight against GSP uh and was is one of the founding members of Jackson he was going to these different jiujitsu Judo pancre schools and seeing what they were doing then he was bringing the information back and they were and then they were you know kind of getting into the laboratory and see what was working at the same time some of these guys were um bouncers and police officers and and and literally using this stuff you know on the street in some you know some you know Roadhouse type situation that's awesome my my original trainer was like a Patrick from Roadhouse type kind of guy Tom Von I don't know if you know Tom Von he he trains Tim Means um and is fit nhp now in Albuquerque as well and he was him and Greg were I mean that that he's one of the founding

127:11members as well it's kind of crazy that there's two big gyms like that in a place as small as Albuquerque that have UFC fighters well they split there yeah they're from the same place they they branched off at one point yeah they split up it's crazy that you know these both guys have developed really high level Talent well it's cuz they all came from the same you know the same original thing that's a fascinating story about the flight attendant I'm sorry what's his name again Chris Latrell Chris Latrell because um him traveling and doing that that's similar to what Hollis Gracie did holes did holes Gracie traveled to America and learned a lot of wrestling and learned catch wrestling stuff that's why the Americana is named The Americana it's a it's a you know it really came from American catch wrestling and they started incorporating into Brazilian jiu-jitsu along with some

128:02wrestling techniques and some he learned a bunch of and he was the guy that really was hixon's Mentor he was the guy that was the head of the family before he died he was the man and he died in a um hand gliding accident in Rio yeah and he was he was the guy like he was the head of the all the others you know he was the one alpha of all the uh the Grapplers and he was dedicated to learning and incorporating different techniques I think like uh in any other context that those who are the most adaptable most open to change and evolution are those who who survive look I remember Eddie Bravo uh showing his approach to rickon graie Hixon Gracie Hixon and Jesus Christ why is it so hard why are you so hard on me I'm not and he W despite his his amazing knowledge and background and achievements he was open enough to lessen carefully uh respectfully with you know with humility he even asked

129:08questions like Hixon was asking questions about different aspects of the positions yeah ex and coming from the the the BJJ world that's that's unusual actually well Hixon is a very unusual guy Hixon was a yogi like he was the first guy Toc inate yoga and he is a legit Yogi like have you ever seen the videos of him doing those exercises in Santa Monica where he's balancing on one leg and he puts his leg up in a full split he has incredible control of his body yes and and and hence the the the people uh uh legitimately legitimately saying hey rexon was the first to implement movement in his training he was yeah he was but here's the thing to me uh I want to pay tribute to all coaches that they are mu Tha striking coaches Judah coaches even strength and conditioning coaches they are all movement trainers and movement Specialists they all are more or less specialized but they are it's all

130:09movement it is and you know there's an interesting aspect that's going on right now in 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu with break dancers there's a bunch of uh these guys like Richie Martinez who was a break dancer like amazing break dancer and his brother Gio these guys they can do crazy with their body they're standing on one hand and spinning around and because of that you have another term hip hop it's a lot about how you control your hips which is the fundamental of Jiu-Jitsu it's I don't think that's hip-hop I don't think that's where it's like because it Rhymes it C it came from like um hiop you know different Sugar Hill B hip hop hi hip hop you don't know those guys had incredible movement they didn't show it much they their Rhymes their Rhymes overshadowed their their stability their course there's the dance there's the dance and then there's the music and then there's in break

131:04dancing you're going to use look at these guys you're going to use your hips uh uh like crazy a lot of those movements are achieved because you have great hip control and in Jiu-Jitsu you must have grip control play that from the beginning Jamie watch what this guy can do mhm this is uh just one of the break look at he's standing on his head just his head all sorts of stuff absolutely well these guys um when Eddie first started training them and rolling with them he was amazed at how freakishly strong they were and you know you look at them they look like regular people but it's the physical control of their body is just spectacular because of you know it's essentially similar to gymnastics in a lot of ways like look at this guy that's that's smigo level oh my God he's triangl himself and walking on his hands this is nuts man that is nuts what's the name of this video Jamie

132:03so if people are listening they watch this 10th Planet break dance crew freak Show yeah they they all call themselves freak Show he's got a he owns T Planet San Diego he it trying to submit himself looks like uh yeah he can submit himself there's a couple of those kids that could put themselves in triangles like legitimately put themselves in triangles look at this look at this I'm sassing but I admire at the same time this kale it's there's no doubt oh there's no doubt the physical control of the body is just spectacular right and this is the first time I've seen this but I mean I can see the the application to Combat Sports immediately I've rolled with a couple of these guys they're freaks like you can't hold on to them just they move all over the place and they can catch you and from all sorts of weird angles like look at that he's on one hand and he puts his legs in full Lotus

132:51standing on one hand jumping up and down and 10th Planet uh Jiu-Jitsu is a very uh you know explorative Innovative School of of Jiu-Jitsu and um in in the in the game of MMA of those gyms who also are open and collaborative arguing to keep themselves you know at the upper echelon um and those who don't evolve will will disappear because it is in the methods the the end result is the same it's the fight it's fighting but the methods to get there and to be proficient uh at it it's it boils down to the methods that you use and uh with uh with Carlos there was uh there was no resistance when I approached him and started to train and talk to his coaches about it and they they may not understand right away exactly what it was about or what it was going to bring to his game but they were at least open to it and eventually they saw uh what together we've been able to to improve

133:54and Achieve and if if if it didn't have uh that attitude then Carlos would have not benefited so did you contact uh Jackson and GRE and Winkle John before you worked with Iran or did you try it out first and go hey uh I think I'm on to something um I think I don't know I don't I don't remember how that worked but what was really interesting and Irwin touched on it earlier was that they saw the same thing they both watched so after my the widening The Stance yeah and and the ability to move forward and back we me and uh and Greg Jackson sat and he wanted to watch a couple of my fights and we he wanted to see what what we were doing well and what we needed Improvement on um saw a few things and I started work with Irwin completely independently and you know we're walking on logs and this and that and he's like well this is kind of a plan that I I have for you and this is

134:50what I and it was exactly the same thing that Greg Jackson who is you know considered to be one of the most Brilliant Minds in MMA saw um Irwin is a movement specialist and Irwin had a plan and a strategy on how to improve that um what was Jackson's idea of dealing with it what did he think well he he knew what needed to be done I don't think he necessarily knew how to get there so he knew that you needed to be able to move in and out better yes but he didn't have any strategy yeah well I mean I wouldn't say that he didn't have strategy it was kind of okay you know well work on that let's figure out how to let's let's work on that but maybe just drill it yeah exactly drill it uh Irwin and I we we videotaped my we videotaped us moving across the same the same distance and this dude's fast man he's like a Deer uh he moves really really really quickly he can run he can JP look like a

135:44deer yeah he does got that look in his I don't find myself in the corner of the wood with me being a so-called deer and these with his bow because he shoots like super sharp um so uh anyway threw me so videos you're going back and forth yeah and so we're you know we're looking at you know and we're we're we're looking at this stuff in slowmo frame by frame where his body position is compared to where mine is and what's the difference he's moving faster because boom he's more upright he doesn't have so much weight on his front foot that he has to load and take another half second before he he Springs back W and so we're like boom that's it uh this is what this is what we need to improve on this is what we need to to do now we are going to drill it and and there's a variety of different things to kind of in uh you know instill that that uh uh The Stance and the posture you

136:38know is on a neuromuscular level are you having other Fighters approach you now not yet but really no after I saw that video I would imagine the video of you guys training together i' be like this the thing I think there is there is still some probably some uh um skepticism you know what's this movement coaching like if the guy doesn't have doesn't look like Jesus doesn't have a man bun and a have foreign accent it's a Ruff you know right so um I think that it they don't know exactly what it is about and they probably believe that it's either Rand it's probably random or MH but if if you listen to what Carlos says um it is actually it was highly specific because a camp is three months we would uh train once a week maybe sometime twice a week but that's still a limited amount of time to make those changes happen so I had to choose my battle and and then I I I I I I I told caros listen

137:41this is what I believe we need to work on and just focus on and and we did that for the first camp and then the second camp for uh Lawler was completely different completely different uh and and highly specific to uh to improving uh kicking what were you going to say you going to say so we we actually we do have some guys that are they've been doing this kind of independently they one of the one of the guys he's young guy and they're fighting on like amateur and Regional levels but you I have a feeling we're you're going to know their names here you know in the next couple years um they're up and coming guys they're young uh you know like 21 22 23 year old you know kind of making their way um one of them is has been watching Irwin's videos since he was like 15 years old he met Irwin he was all star struck oh my God this is irn Lor how did you even me you know and

138:30uh uh they are incorporating movement quite a bit so it's not you know it's not that they haven't sought him out they're they're kind of very interested in this and doing their own stuff and and and finding this stuff on online and watching eor portal stuff watching Irwin stuff and um and and definitely incorp opting a lot of this this stuff and then one of the kids is is a gymnast he was a gymnast before and and so now he can do all kinds of crazy look for an edge definitely they all looking for an edge even Carlos was looking for well George St Pier was doing a lot of gymnastics uh Pat Cummings does a lot of that as well it's the same thing and now now we're like we you know we see with con Conor McGregor so it's like this big thing oh this mov uh uh GSP was you know he he was doing gymnastics for the same exact reasons be able to move his body through

139:23through space and and ultimately become a better fighter and be able to better beat the out of people CU that's that's the goal right you know it's it's it's fun and it's cool it's a cool way to train and you know after the fact I think this is a a cool Fitness Mo modality that's that's very different and I I absolutely love it I've been an a athlete all my life and I can I plan on being an athlete till the day I die how much longer do you think you're going to be fighting um have you considered that oh yeah oh yeah I've been I've heard you talking about that after the the Robbie Lawler fight um I don't know I don't know it's I'm I'm how old are you now 31 I'll be 32 in a few months you're still in your Prime I am but you know this has been a this been a long road you know I started training profession or fighting professionally at 18 um have had 40 you

140:17know over 40 fights you know and you feel it get dinged up I get dinged up and you I I still feel great I think I think my concern is the long-term neurological stuff um that is you know the kind of coming to light with you know with you know all this this studies on this the concussions and you've seen me fight I don't I don't go in there and not take damage I take damage you know I I take take punishment you know I take I'll take two to give one and that's just kind of my style and well you didn't fight like that in the Nick Diaz fight that was like one of the few fights where you didn't fight like that yeah uh you know I felt I'd seen a lot of guys go in against Nick Diaz and gas themselves out trying to knock that guy out man it's like he can't you can't knock him out he took a full-on uh uh left hook from from Paul Dy flopped around a little bit pop back up Paul Dy

141:09blew his wad trying to finish him and then and then got knocked the out himself and I've seen a lot of guys you know hurt him but he's so goddamn tough he's so hard to put away and so yeah it was more of a um of a calculated approach you know as I got flowing later in the fight I started opening up a little bit but um I think that's what a lot of Nick Diaz's strategy is he he wants for one he wants to get in your head and he wants you to fight emotionally he wants you to sit there and have a face punch punching competition with him you know oh we're going to stand here like it's the schoolyard was he talking a lot of to you he he was but it I just I knew I knew what he was going to do I mean I grew I grew up with right dudes like that you know you know my whole life I was you know so I was kind of used to that and I knew that I was going to have to be emotionally um uh uh

142:04prepared yeah yeah emotionally uh kind of kind of sh shut down and just fight a strategic game plan against the guy yeah it was uh it was interesting to watch that fight because you know he was extremely frustrated by that you know and he couldn't get you to change you know whereas he's been able to like with guys heads like the Frank Shamrock fight like you could see Frank shammer going I can't believe this is happening to me like when Nick was talking to him like what what and then popping him with a jab you could see like for some people that talkinging becomes overwhelming with nickh yeah yeah you know what's funny is uh both me and cowboy fought the Diaz brothers within a few weeks of each other right uh uh Cowboy lost to Nate and I fought Nick just a few weeks later and in in preparation for both of our camps we would we were switching roles and both fighting Southpaw and both

143:03fighting you know like one round I would fight Southpaw and talk a bunch of and try and try try try to get you know try try to emulate the Diaz style and then the next round he would do the same did you yell out Stockton 209 I I yeah I did my best impression that reminds me of a a Buddhist uh Mong drill where they're all in their meditation posture and uh they they partner up and the other guys like trying to instigate them and you know tell crap to them to have them get out of their meditation that's the drill very well there's definitely something to that I mean if you're not used to people that talk when someone talks to you it can be like emotionally devastating what what's happening here but if you used to be like you I've heard this you know it's it becomes normal you know I mean I tried to explain that to Fighters um when they deal with online criticism as well like

144:00I've had talked to guys who would go on like the underground and see like some that people are talking about him and just be devastated and get so upset and I was like look man you got to treat it like snake venom you get a little bit of that in your system and you're going to be okay you get a little bit more and you eventually you bu you build up an immunity to it and then you go oh I get it you're just a of little who never accomplished so you're talking about Fighters calling them and like cuz to some Fighters you have a loss and you're like good I'm glad he got knocked out I hate watching that guy fight he's a like yeah and to them stuff oh my God and initially it's like like whoa after that you know I'd never experienced that until really until after the DS fight like I there had been some but after the DS fight I mean you know that big time so I call it the what I I

144:53call it the the unique snowflakes uh snowflake uh syndrome like you're told since you're a kid you're a unique snowflake but the problem is that they they can't stand the heat does that make sense who are you talking about though who is the unique snowflake the person talking or the fighter uh whoever is like being told all the time hey it's okay to be different or it's okay to be this and that but the problem is that sometimes you do need to uh hear stuff about about about yourself that is challenging and and to take it to not crumble necessarily know you need to hear it I mean I would I would appreciate I mean man it's hard because I like both ways I kind of love like Nate Diaz punching Michael Johnson in the face then pointing at him ah I just you up like it's funny you know when Anderson fought Nick and Nick laid down on his back and pretended he was sleeping for a second I was

145:49crying laughing it when Conor McGregor talks mad to Jose Aldo for months till he just rents space in his head to the point where Aldo just he literally can't fight his fight he has to run at Conor because he's just so overwhelmed with emotion and then Connor sleeps him you know I mean I I like both but I prefer in a in a perfect world I prefer martial artists I prefer guys who go out there treat each other with respect shake each other's hands and then just go out of it just let their skill take it but it's an effective tactic to these Fighters it's part of their weapons it it's not something outside their their game it's completely embedded in their whole game oh yeah well it's also a lot of Fighters Define themselves by Respect by how much someone respects them and how how much like like to a fighter when someone's not scared of them it becomes a very devastating thing

146:43like I remember when Anderson fought Chris Weidman when R Weidman and Anderson were at the weigh-ins and Anderson staring at him looking at them and widman goes I'm not scared of you dude I'm not scared of you and you could see Anderson was like this guy really isn't scared of me like you could see there was a tangible moment where this guy wasn't pretending he wasn't scared he just literally wasn't scared and you could feel it that that similar situation at the weigh-ins with uh Ronda Rousey and H yes same thing and I I felt like that was a precursor to what ended up happening well the big part when Holly didn't Flinch exactly when Ronda was yelling at you fake you know your Preacher's Daughter all this different stuff and she wrote all this stuff on Instagram about her and Holly just standing there and then when I interviewed Holly afterward she goes well I was just

147:31trying to get a sip of water and he realized like whoa this girl's so composed like so composed and and also she had been to so many dances she'd fought for so many boxing titles and kickboxing and MMA she'd been in so many dances that the bright lights Wen an uncomfortable thing to her she she's like okay we're here again you know whereas for a lot of people it's like who this is The Big Show holy I can't believe I'm here yep absolutely being overwhelmed by the moment is almost something that you can't prepare for you it seems to me that for a lot of people some people just naturally can deal with moments and some people they have to experience it a couple times to get loose they get you got to get comfortable with it and then they have to like some people like cowboy is a perfect example he fights his best when he fights a lot he's got to fight all the time he fights three four times a

148:24year and then you're going to get the best Cowboy you can get but you make him take a year off or take a you know a long time off and it's he's just he's much better when he's active yeah he's got to stay loose and lubed up and you know you know fired up and that fight with Tim Means is going to be crazy when they announced that I went whoa yeah why did cowboy decide to take that fight because he doesn't like cutting weight I have no idea I don't know I haven't I haven't talked to Cowboy about I mean I said hey what's up you know we didn't but we didn't really talk about the fight at all well he's so crazy you could probably offer him Brock Lesnar he look come on bring it on oh for sure EXA do it that's it that that's why is because he's Cowboy yeah he's just nuts man yeah he's a fun dude man yeah absolutely fun to watch fight and he's either he's either on or he's

149:10off yeah unfortunately unfortunately well I don't even necessarily know if he wasn't that he was not on I said do sanos is a demon yeah he just jumps all over you did that to him did that to Pettis yeah nobody's done that to Pettis man dude dude but he's just so fat and again he's a guy who trains with Nick kerson and Nick kon's gotten doing all these Plyometrics and jumps and Sprints and foot strengthening stuff you ever seen that stuff where they're they're lying on their back and their feet are pushing up these bars and they're kicking up these bars and catching them with their feet and and exploding with their feet I saw I saw the video before the cowboy fight yeah it's all based on Marv manovich's training Str strategies that the same sort of that he used with BJ pen really it's really I remember that I remember watching that and BJ was standing on the the the

150:02tennis balls and all that sort of you know I think very similar yeah very similar and and it's you know it's all very similar kind of different ways differents but it's all kind of you know it's all the this you know the same goal so what what's next for you now do you hang back for a while you had a brutal crazy five round War for the title where it was as close as you're ever going to get I mean a lot of people saw it your way a lot of people saw it Robbie's way it was just that close Split Decision um what do you do now um I I'd like another shot of Robbie you know I I felt like I won the fight um and like you said it was a razor razor close decision um could have gone either way MMA judging is subjective you know the scoring system is so crazy too it is absolutely nuts that we're still using that 10-point must system yeah yeah it doesn't doesn't apply very well to

151:01MMA and that's proven over and over again um yeah I mean i' I'd like another shot at uh at Robbie I feel like I should have the belt right now but it seems like Tyron Woodley's next right I mean at least he was sort of promised that based on the the Hendrick fight where Hendricks didn't make weight and um it seems like that's what's probably being set up but you never know with the UFC I mean Mesa Tate was supposed to fight Ronda if she beat uh was it Jessica I is that who it was uh I don't remember I think that's who it was and then they decided no so it's it's interesting because the UFC kind of decides to call the shots has anybody talked to you about whether or not they would do that again uh I think it's I think it's definitely a possibility you know I think the first fight they made that fight because that was the fight that people wanted to see among among

151:52any of the contenders that that that was the that was the one that that got everybody excited right that that was the one and a rematch of that fight oh yeah come on now well I think as far as uh public interest that would be the biggest fight out there yeah but I feel like I just hate when someone gets promised something you know and I would feel the same way if it was you like Tyron Woodley get promised that title fight if he beat hendrickx Hendrick up and doesn't make weight the fight fights off and then Woodley's sort of left out the dry I feel for him yeah you know and I do too and and you know I have a loss to Woodley I mean and that you know that's definitely on my radar to to to avenge that loss uh does a loss like that an injury loss with you as much as a a loss by a decision or you know I mean that's a kind of a crazy loss cuz your your knee

152:44blew out yeah I think even more so just because the fact that I I didn't get to do as much as I wanted to do you know I I didn't get to leave everything out there you this this last one it's a bummer I didn't take the belts home that night didn't go my way but you know I I pushed it I was able to empty the tank you definitely emptied the tank yeah and in in the Woodle fight I didn't H my you know my body gave out my knee blew out so um yeah from that perspective I I I definitely see where you're coming from yeah I mean yeah he he was promised to fight but I'm not in of Tyron I'm not in charge of picking the fight I'm in charge of you know Carlos Condit and trying to get myself in in the best fight that being said you know honestly that's about the only fight that interests me at this point well I tell you what I wouldn't be mad if they decided to make a rematch I'd

153:35feel bad for Tyron but uh I'd love to see that again yeah I'd love to do that again that's how much time would you need off after a fight like that um I think I'd be I'd be ready to go and you know late spring early summer the UFC 200 sounds good to me sounds good to me I don't know Jesus Christ that would be gigantic that be UFC 200 that's oh my goodness yeah I I I wanted that fight to be legendary and I think that it lived up to that oh it was legendary and it was one of the greatest fights I've ever seen yeah so I've probably called 1,500 fights or something like that something crazy like that that was easily in the top 10 MH just everybody wants to see a sequel It's Like An Unfinished Business except Tyron Woodley he's right now listening going that this my shot yeah and I I understand where he's coming from but I get it too I get it too hey maybe they can you know give him a

154:37little side listen Tyron take a few of these relax have a good time yeah um but uh you know I don't know I still I still love this I mean I still I still love the process treny Camp even fight week I enjoy and you know that's awesome one of my favorite things in life is to get in there and fing you know mix it up with a guy like Robbie so well it was one of my favorite things to watch because it was just an amazing fight it was like I said after the fight it was an honor it was an honor to be there and to call it because I know that when this is all over and we're old and we're sitting around at a bar or at a picnic someday we're picnicking the am I talking we're talking about the past we're going to talk about that fight you know the way people talk about Leonard and Duran or the way people talk about any great crazy fight that they were they were there for you know and

155:33and win or lose ultimately that's that's what I want to be said that's the Legacy that I want to leave well I think it was martial arts in its best form in a lot of ways it was a heart determination willpower technique uh the discipline to go through camp to get yourself in the kind of shape that you need to be in to compete for five rounds like that which is just an insane amount of physical conditioning you mean you guys emptied and your workload was extremely high in that fight especially kicks remember that was one of the things that we commented on like how many kicks you had thrown I mean it was uh really a really crazy crazy fight yeah yeah it was fun man I I had fun I maybe maybe I'm a little bit twisted but that was I I was definitely say you're a little bit twisted you know that was that was a good time the kicks were a big part of the strategy too uh I think that a lot

156:29of people wonder why is it that Lawler was not as aggressive as usual I believe there is a reason because it's not like he was less hungry or less in in shape it's because the strategy worked of uh higher volume and higher accuracy and uh with with those kicks to to you know lower his his aggressive mhm um it worked well kicks are always so dangerous too because it just takes one slip up you know it's they're they're so much harder than punches and you're taking them on your arms and they your arms up to the point where you can't throw punches anymore so you got to be careful what you absorb right it's part it's the volume is is statistically the volume is going to create damage M to different diverse part of the the body so when you know I've heard the debate about the the fight metrics how you know I threw a lot I didn't necessarily land a lot um and I feel

157:26like the the kick and the kicks and the the volume of of punches that I was that I was throwing out was you know the equivalent of uh you know say putting down cover of fire if you're in a fire fight um yeah you're not necessarily uh you know you know popping people's nuggets but you are you know that it's part of an overall strategy to to come out with victory you're you're throwing him off you're making him keep his hands up you're keeping that distance you're you know making the enemy keep their head down in this analogy and you weren't also loading up either you were touching him with a lot of these things and keeping him on his toes and you know that was something that Dwayne was calling TJ Dill Shaw to do in his fight with Dominick Cruz he was like just go out and then touch him just keep touching him and then the shots will come but he got so emotional and tied up

158:15and trying to knock Dominic out you could see him standing more flat-footed s more single shots single kicks single punches this yeah this guy that had looked just incredibly Dynamic with his footwork and his you know kind look like Dominick Cruz against other guys and look really well Dominick Cruz goes out there and makes him you know look like a very Orthodox uh uh you know fighter he's not he's not moving like thatmore at times yeah at times init initially they came out and they were both moving like that I'm like oh what this is this is crazy these guys going to open up a wormhole what the going you know yeah shit's going to be you know shit's wild well I think that's what a lot of us expected but um it's interesting that what what yri had said about TJ that he had a feeling that TJ was going to get emotional because TJ's a super competitive guy and he get

159:03really geared up and you know that's uh that was an interesting fight really interesting fight to watch this crazy that Dominick Cruz was able to come back having essentially only fought once in four years yeah and and win the title like that perform like that yeah yeah he's a different kind of animal he's a smart too you talk to that guy oh yeah oh yeah I I've known him since wec I listened to his an analysis of fights like when he talks about like what mistakes guys make and things guys are doing right and correctly and what they need to do and you know you you realize like he's operating on a very very high level oh yeah very high level absolutely and that's probably part of why he was able to come back and compete at the level that he did because he you know he was sitting there you know analyzing this you know they they talk about you can sit there and do

159:49repetitions of a kick or a technique um you know 100 times but it it's almost the same uh thing neurologically to visualize yourself doing that they say that that visual visual training is a simil is is very similar and almost as effective as actually doing it yes so I wonder if I mean I wonder if there's kind of a of a correlation there I would imagine there is well he's interesting in a way also cuz he says that there's no such thing as octagon rust like I asked him about and he's like it's not real octagon it's mental weakness if he believes that it's true but when you watch the fight it certainly looked true I mean he didn't look Rusty at all was just kind of nuts MH um I I think that's the thing it's it's a belief thing yeah he's not going to let that not not for one one second hinder him yeah I agree with Carlos because in the absense of of actual movement

160:44training due to his injury it's very likely that he was still visualizing every day his movements and and therefore using his brain to keep practicing the movements even though body could not the body could not follow at that you know during that time do you examine Dominic's footwork do you examine guys that are fighting do you watch like different guys movements and it's it's close to Perfection and is he using a a particular technique yes but also most importantly it's all about his alertness and responsiveness and timing and that again it's it's it's uh it's not how much your body can can do it's how much your mind is is able to operate your body to achieve that yeah so you need a brain that is extremely sharp um well I was super impressed with him but one of the things that I thought of when I watched that fight is goddamn how good is Mighty Mouse you got to take a league

161:40is that what's going on yeah let's just wrap this up uh it's it's uh it's yeah we we did almost three hours but listen thank you very much it was awesome thank you everyone really appreciate so uh your uh Twitter handle is there's movat n m o n mov n and then there's also yours which is uh just irwan corov now.com you could find it on my Twitter page because I tweeted it today and Carlos it's Carlos Condit yep and mov not.com mve mov n.com thank you brother I really appreciate AB awesome really appr all right folks we'll be back tomorrow with the uh guys from cpy holy here we go