Matt Walsh

00:04Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan day hello Matt Walsh Joe Rogan nice to meet you yeah you too officially um your documentaries it's I can't tell you how many people have asked me if I've seen it it's I think it's one of the most eye openening things that's ever been done on this whole gender confusion thing that we're going through right now in our culture and it was just like one of those things where I I had to watch like so many people were like you have to see this you have to see this and I expected it to be like me I thought it would be like arguments with people or it would be very you know very confrontational but instead I think you did it masterfully what you did is you just let these people explain themselves the way they would talk if you weren't there the way they would talk to people who agree with

01:10what they're saying and by not pushing back I think you allowed them to to let all the crazy out and it's like it's it's just it's hard to describe to people that aren't aware of what's going on of how Wild this stuff has gotten but first of all tell me what was the process of making this like how long did it take what what was the what was the motivation behind it yeah um thanks for talking about it so much on your podcast by the way it's been uh it's been a huge boost for us and we you know I I had this idea you'd really have to go back several years because it occurred to me maybe back in I don't know 2017 that uh when this when this transgender stuff was starting to really gain mainstream traction which I think happened really that was like uh maybe when Bruce Jenner became Caitlyn Jenner that was the that was the moment that I think it exploded

02:03onto the mainstream not not when it began but it exploded onto the mainstream right around that time it it sort of occurred to me that that the people promoting this stuff have a a problem which is that we're we're supposed to accept someone like Bruce as a woman but then what what exactly does that mean what are we accepting him as like he says I identify as a woman well what do you identifying as what are we if you're a woman well I know what a woman was before but if now we're including a guy like Bruce then what is a woman now and so I started asking this question was really basic just like what is a woman what what are you trying to say about Womanhood now and uh couldn't get anyone to answer it I mean and mostly it's just on Twitter you know and uh challenging someone on the left just give me a definition what's your definition of the word and um none of

02:52them would do it so at a certain point I thought we have to find a way to go out and put this question in front of them um and that's sort of where the idea for the doc doumentary came from and and we knew going in that we wanted we wanted two things well three things one is we have the we have the mission behind it the message that we want to get across uh but we also want it to be a piece of ENT entertainment you know because a lot of conservative documentaries not all of them but many of them are just you feel like you're watching extended version of a podcast or something it's not there's it's not a piece of entertainment so we wanted it to be that and then we also knew that uh the way this is going to work if it works at all is if I'm just asking questions and because if I if it's if it's me going on a tour around the country yelling at people that would

03:38be satisfying for me emotionally but it just wouldn't it wouldn't prove anything other than what people already know which is that two sides yell at each other uh so we wanted to give sort of gender ideology a chance to hang Itself by its own incoherences which is which I think is what what happened I think you definitely accomplished that and that it's it's so funny that that question what as a woman is so difficult to answer and then they'll say well someone who identifies as a woman and you say well what does that mean though right then they want to just stop talking like what was the the politician that actually had you leave his office when you yeah we actually we had a couple that uh stormed out but only one made it on on camera and that was the that was um Mark Tano Congressman in uh California and he's one of the he's one

04:27of The Advocates there's a reason why there's a reason we chose all these people wasn't just random he's an advocate he's not just a Democrat politician he's an advocate for the equality act which is uh this Push by democrats to kind of federalize all this stuff on a national level so that all across the country for example men have the right to use a women's restroom and opens up all the sports teams and all that just settles it takes it away from the states and so he's an advocate of that he's a good guy to talk to and um we he he sat there for about 30 minutes especially when I'm asking him the easy questions and he would give his like filibustering answer but then once I started asking real questions that's when he got really uncomfortable you could even see in the film he keeps looking over my shoulder and that's because his Aid is standing

05:13right behind my back the entire time and uh but she never I I was I kept expecting her to cut it off and and shut it down but she never did and eventually he just had enough of it and he got up and left but the thing that made him leave was I didn't even get to ask him what is a woman question I asked him uh I I I asked him you know there there are males who want to use the women's restroom or the women's locker room but then there are females who don't want to see an individual with a penis in the locker room so you've got two competing claims here two people who have feelings the women who feel like they don't want to see this it makes them feel bad to see it and then the men who it makes them feel bad if they can't use the restroom so who wins out how do you balance that I think it's a fair question it's a very good question and

05:52that's when he just got up and said the interview's over and walked out well in those scenarios where this is where women particularly like feminists who've always been like hardcore lefties they're like they're finding themselves in this ideological Quagmire yeah they're like they're they're feminists they're Pro women's rights they're on the left and they're not anti-trans but then all of a sudden this is getting imposed into their world and they're told they have to accept it or they're transphobic regardless of this person's sexual history like if this person is a sexual abuser if this person is uh a like a literally registered sex offender they can go into certain places dress like a woman and use women spaces it's a we Spa case in in Los Angeles yes that's exactly what it is it's like I mean there's so many instances of people

06:46gaming the system right there's the prisoner who went to jail and immediately decided they were trans and impregnated two prisoners while they're in there yeah that's that's happening all over the country by the way and these these women have no you want to talk about giving a voice to the voiceless these women have no voice in prison what are who are they supposed to talk to and uh and and they're getting locked in can you imagine that you're a woman most and many women who are in jail or are in jail for nonviolent offenses um and now they're in locked in a cage 24 hours a day with men many of them are sex offenders well that guy was a murderer yeah when that guy had murdered his foster care father and the the the cops who went to the crime scene said it was the worst murder that they hadd ever seen he' been stabbed from his

07:33face down to his ankles like CU he' just been stabbed an insane amount of times just a blood bath this is the person that just decided right after getting arrested they identify as a woman and you know the other thing to keep in mind too is that yeah there are men who are just gaming the system as you point out I think in prison that's that happens a lot because they'd rather be in a women's prison than a Men's prison uh but also in general like there are different categories of uh of people who who transition and we kind of talk about them like they're all the same but they're not and you can kind of break it down by age like there's the very young children a 5-year-old and we hear that oh my 5-year-old is trans that's a th% the parent just deciding they're going to do that to the child because no child is gonna make no child even knows what

08:18that is so you have to you have to suggest that to them then you have the adolescent girls and you know Abigail shri's written about this in her great book uh and and there that's the social contagion they pick it up from society but then there's the older men who are adults and side one day that they're women and for so many of them this is a fetish I mean this is like the the thing we're not allowed to say or acknowledge but it's totally true that for most of for most of these older men who decide that I'm a woman it's a fetish it's autog gynophilus they're they're uh Enchanted by the idea of themselves as women and so now now we have to participate in your fetish like you you get off on the idea of being seen as a woman and I have to be I have to be a participant in that it's it's really a it's really degrading and to all of us

09:03you know that we're all being forced into this well it's always been a a psychological condition it's always been known as being like a psychiatric condition like it's a mental health issue right and now it's being accepted as a gender identity issue where it was always just like a weird Kink that people had and now you you're again regardless whether or not this person's a sex offender registered sex offender repeated sex offender you have have to accept this otherwise you're a bigot it's just this this rigid adherence to ideology is so cult-like it's so w it's so [ __ ] hands made tale it's it's so wild that people are just wholesale adopting this and this is not to deny that there's people that are trans I've met people that are trans it exists in nature I mean you occasionally guys will shoot a buck and they'll find out that

09:57it's actually a female with antlers Nature's weird right I think does put people make humans for whatever reason that really feel like they should have been born a female or should have been born a male but that's not all of what's happening and in our desire to be compassionate and to have care for these people and to to love these people and respect these people we're opening the door to all this chaos yeah and I think that's what you highlight so well in this film and it's just it's so strange to me how so many people on the left people that I you know before this I generally respected their opinion just buy into it wholesale and will spout out things as if their facts about how much this helps people and keeps people from killing themselves and and and and helps kids like but it's not true yeah it's not true and and the the suicide stuff

10:59is so it's just so Sinister because this is the emotional blackmail that they that they tell parents that uh you know your daughter identifies as a as your son now and then the classic line the now classic line is would you rather have a a dead daughter or a living son like you have to affirm this or your daughter's going to kill himself and so many parents especially you know you go back a couple years when this conversation wasn't being had on a at a very visible level they they just they don't know what to do they're panicked and they just been told by a mental health provider who they trust that if they don't go along with their child's delusion that their child's going to commit suicide so I I can understand when you're told that that you're going to kind of panic but it's just it's not true um the evidence in fact tells us

11:43the opposite that suicidality we cover this in the film Scott Nan mentions it that the the only reliable long-term study we have on this shows that suicidality is the highest after years after transition that's the highest point for suicidality among trans people but the other problem too is that is that there are a couple of maybe reliable long-term studies but there aren't that many because we haven't done this to people on this scale ever before in human history so the current crop of uh especially trans quote unquote trans kids they're the the guinea pigs they're the we're experimenting on them and they're making a lot of the the healthcare providers are making a lot of promises about how this is going to turn out when they can't possibly know this because we've never done it before well that's the one of the more Sinister

12:26aspects of it for me is the way they're encouraging hormone blockers and hormone transition for people that are going through puberty or haven't gone through puberty just we don't have any long-term studies on this and now they're finding that these hormone blockers aren't innocuous and that they they cause a lot of health problems and they're they're saying this now out in the open when people have been for years the last few years promoting this as if it's a pause button and that's and it's just absurd because that's not that's not how human biology works I think there's a lot a lot of what they claim it just it shouldn't intuitively it doesn't make any sense it defies Common Sense even before you look at the data and then you look at the data and you realize that yeah it doesn't make any sense but even before that you can't what what's being

13:12claimed that you can kind of put a child in a state of suspended animation where they're they're kind of lingering on on pause that's not how the human body works if you what you can do is try to suppress the human body's normal natural functions but when you do that it's a trade-off there are consequences there are always consequences that's how nature works and um and we also know that what are the drugs they use like Lupron is a drug they use as a puberty blocker and it's just a fact that this drug number one to begin with is a cancer drug originally for for for older men who have prostate cancer and uh and they've also used it to chemically castrate sex offenders I think in Georgia they've used it for that purpose so it's an actual chemical castration drugs drug used off label for you know 10-year-old 11-y old 12-y old kids with long-term data right

14:03and they're they're promoting it is is this is the Silver Bullet this is going to fix you right this is the thing that's going to fix all your alses and the other thing they do is they say that well we don't uh as this conversation has grown about um actual surgery for children which is happening all across the country but what they always say is that well that's not you know that's not really what's happening especially younger kids we just it's puberty blockers not surgery and yeah it might be true that they're not performing actual surgeries on 12-year-olds at this point you know at least that hasn't that's not a common practice but what they don't tell you is that once you put the kid on this conveyor belt um they're going to probably stay on it all the way to the surgery you've put them in the system you've put them on it is like a

14:43conveyor belt system and they're most likely not going to jump off you start with the puy blockers in almost every case it's going to lead to the uh to hormone therapy and then in a great many cases they go from there to uh to surgery the other thing too is that you've as you're as they're going along with these drugs you are taking away you're sterilizing them you're you're often times permanently taking away their future fertility so you know you you've taken away their capacity to like a girl you've you've you've made it so she'll never be able to have kids in the future you've already taken that from her she she has given it up before she even could know what she's even given up um and then for her it's kind of a logical process well I've already given that up so I might as well go get the double myectomy and then all down the

15:27line and then there's the euphoria that comes with taking testosterone that happens to them like almost immediately they have a different feeling and they go oh this is how I should have been all along now the medicine is helping me it's it's also if someone identifies as male or identifies as female and this is just how they feel they are what is like what's the logical argument for starting to give them hormones that are not natural in their system I I don't think there is a a logical argument um the only argument you ever hear from them and I know because I've I've asked is uh is the emotional blackmail argument that it just you have to do it because if you don't they're going to kill them but but another point about the suicide thing I want to mention is that you know we we know that trans identification has risen in the youngest

16:20generation has risen like 20 or 30 fold right and what what they tell us on the left is that well that's not social contagion this is just people now feel comfortable to live their truth so there's always been this many trans people it's just that in the past they couldn't announce that to the world unaffirmed and we're also told that if you don't affirm trans people it leads to Suicide then shouldn't we see if we look back through history just this unbroken Mass epidemic across the world of people killing themselves in Mass because they're not being Affirmed as trans that's not what we find shouldn't we see like you know you should should be able to go back to 1850 and find millions of kids killing themselves because it turns out they were trans and not being affirmed but child suicide almost like didn't exist up until very

17:17recently um it was basically unheard of so it's just everything they say just when you when you when you apply a little bit of common sense it all starts to break down when do you think this Shi do you think it's the Caitlyn Jenner thing that shifted it like when did this become a big part of the cultural narrative because I would have never imagined if you came up to me 20 years ago and said in 20 years from now like gender identity will be one of the big points of contention in our culture among politics yeah I think you kind of decide where you want to start because like in the film we go back to uh Alfred money and uh or Alfred Kinsey and John money that's mid 20th century so these ideas were out there I mean these are the guys who came up with like the phrase gender identity was invented by by KY was a wild dude yeah he was they

18:08they both they both were they were degenerate pedophiles um and it's clear in both the especially Kinsey it's pretty clear that he had his uh sexual fetishes and Fascinations and he wanted to prove to himself that he's not weird because everyone's like this and so he he goes out and uh you know he he declares I think he said that 10% of males or gay or something like that and uh and then you find out that he's he's mostly surveying prisoners and sex offenders and you know people like that he's not he's not going to just a a normal intersection of of of Americans so you go back to those guys but I think what's what's the moment when all this exploded into the mainstream it kind of it was like seated into our institutions and then there was a moment when it when it all became mainstream and I don't know if Bruce Jenner is the

18:57definite starting point but I do think that that was a uh a pivotal pivotal moment it was a pivotal moment not just because now the media is celebrating this but also because conservatives you know had an opportunity right then and there to to to take a stand against this to recognize it for what it is for the threat that it is and to take a firm stand and I think so many conservatives didn't because they just imagin that this is either they don't want to get in trouble be called a transphobe or they just thought it's sort of a sideshow and um and so they just many conservatives basically ignored it up until anybody realized it was going to get this big yeah I I think a lot of people didn't but I mean it it should have been it should have been more clear I guess would have could have should have but it should have been more clear because this was a

19:45this was they're waging an assault on like basic fundamental reality and uh so it goes Way Beyond this is not just about gender this is about reality that's why in the film every conversation I had with someone on that side of it every single one devolved into this well what is truth and who's truth and how do you know what truth is yeah you know so I'm sitting in the same room as someone and and and but I can't get them to acknowledge that we exist in the same reality we can share a room but we but we don't share a reality you I I had there was in the film there's one woman that we talked to on the street and she was giving me this we all have our own truth thing and then I said uh well what if it's my truth that you don't exist and she said well then I don't exist like she was willing to erase her own existence if that's how I perceive it

20:35it's to it's totally incoherent I found out about the the the reaction that people have to this and how strongly they're committed to this when there was a transgender fighter that was uh hiding the fact found Fox was hiding the fact that they were biologically male and competed twice as a woman beating the [ __ ] out of these women and I was like this is crazy like you can't and and trying to say that it was just a medical procedure and when I I thought rightly got angry at it I saw all these articles written all these pieces about how transphobic my position was and what a horrible person I was like what we're we're literally talking about someone not telling someone I said that look if you are a transgender athlete and you tell someone hey I was biologically male but now identify as a female would you like to

21:34fight and that person still says yes all in go ahead have fun just like I think you should be able to ride bulls and go dirt biking and skydiving do whatever wild dangerous [ __ ] you want to do but to hide the fact that you're biologically male and you were a male for 30 plus years that was Madness to me but they had already drawn this Line in the Sand and I was I remember arguing with someone on Twitter about it when this woman said she is always a woman I go even when this person impregnated a woman and had a child with them she's like even then like even then she stuck her penis in a woman got her pregnant that's the science became father science yeah and even that during that act she was a woman like what are exactly what is a woman what the [ __ ] are we talking about they what they're really saying is

22:26that this person they're talking about self-perception like this person perceived himself that way but but self-perception is not always reality this like of course we all re in in most other contexts we recognize that a person can have a self-perception that just is not true it's just inaccurate I mean you could walk down the street in any City and find drug addled homeless people talking to themselves and if you were to ask them about themselves you're going to find they're going to say a lot of things that just don't line up with reality uh and in every other context we're allowed to acknowledge that even in medical context I mean uh someone has body dysmorphia in the form of anorexia you know a young woman goes to the doctor and she's 90 pound and she says I I feel like I'm a 300 lb you know fat ass yeah the doctor doctor's not going

23:14to affirm that and say well if that's how you feel that's how you fatness is on a spectrum I mean they're not going to give her diet pills they're going to but why gender like why is gender this ideological Battleground like how the [ __ ] did that become this thing where it's it's encouraging like this cult-like mentality where you can even if things are clearly odd think clear clearly don't make any sense they don't they don't fit with logic or reality you have to adhere to whatever this ideology is prom promoting I think it's it's I mean the most basic level I think that this is a it's a like I said this is an attack on on truth and this is you know if you want to uh if your project is kind of is relativism and you want to get rid of objective ideas of Truth what are you going to go after I mean if you can go after someone's really fundamental

24:13um understanding of themselves it's it's not just that they're attacking reality it's like they're attacking the reality of the self and so they're depriving a person of the ability to understand their own themselves um and once you do that if you're successful on a societal level then it's sort of like you the sky's limit you can go anywhere from there I think so do you think this is like a conscious decision or do you think this is just something that people have adopted because it seems to be the ideology dejour I think it's it depends on who you're talking about I mean uh at an Institutional level I think I think a lot of is conscious some of the people that I talked about talked to in the film I think that they they know that this doesn't make any sense and that it's wrong uh and I think because they have to know it you know if you're a

24:57doctor you you do have a basic understanding of male and female you must that you wouldn't have been able to get through medical school if you don't so I think that for them it's intensely ideological it's also it's also profit driven they've got they're making a lot of money off of this you know if a if a six-year-old boy says I feel like I'm a girl and the response to the boy is no you're a boy and that's that's what you are and that's okay and he'll get over it and he'll get over because it's just a phase and he'll live a normal life and that's fine but there's not there's no money in that whereas if you encourag the delusion now that boy individually is worth millions of dollars down the line to uh therapists and doctors and endocrinologists and surgeons and everything so I think it's I think it's profit driven and then there and then

25:37there's also just a lot of actual confusion out there people don't really understand what's going on and then there's cowardice too people are are just terrified you know we I've certainly seen a lot of that people just are they are scared shitless about being accused of bigotry yeah uh losing their social media platforms losing their jobs losing their friends I get this question all the time Everywhere I Go um well how do I deal with this at my job because if I reveal that I understand reality at my job I'll lose my job or I'll lose my family you know it's this is what people are dealing with and it is what people are dealing dealing with that really is what's happening which is one of the more confusing aspects of this is that there's no logical discussion about this it's just you are either on the good side or you're a bigot and that's the

26:27binary yeah and that's because they they know that they can the people that are pushing this stuff know that they can't def defend it they can't defend it in intellectually they also feel like they shouldn't have to I think that they some of the people we talk to what is a woman it's they were they were offended that we were even questioning them because from their perspective especially if you're a college professor or something the relationship is supposed to be I pontificate and you just sit there slack jawed and Nod your head and and go along with it so they feel like they shouldn't have to defend it but they also know that they can't and so uh what are you left with you're left with speech suppression scaring people that's that's the only tool in your in your uh bag and it's been really effective unfortunately so far now what has the

27:10response to your film been what's it been like uh what was was anything surprising I guess I would say I was surprised by the by just how um by just how big the the response was I knew we had something you know I knew it was I knew it was an I knew I knew we had something with the idea and then once we filmed all the footage before we even put it together I'm like I I know we have something explosive here but you never know exactly how people will respond to something it's the first time I've been involved in in a film myself so um I was I was expecting a big reaction but not quite to the extent that we got um and across the Spectrum too because you know I knew that our audience of the daily wire would love the film and appreciate it but uh it's it's gone way beyond that I mean I hear from people who tell me that they're they identify as liberal or they're

27:55independent they're non ideological they saw the film they tell everyone to watch it you know I hear that all the time people well that's where I got it from I got it from a liberal mother yeah she was one of the first people to tell me about it and she's concerned about it cuz she sees children in her kids school that are identifying in this way and she has this fear that it's a social contagion but she also feels the suppression of that idea like that other parents if she brings it up with them they're either dismissive or they don't want to talk about it and she's like Jesus Christ it feels like like people are under a spell yeah it it does feel like that it's like invad the Body Snatchers or something exactly it it does and the other thing that I hear from people about the the movie probably the number one uh piece of feedback I

28:40get is that uh they just didn't realize it was this they didn't they didn't realize how how bad it was or how pervasive it was I think a lot even uh even people that I thought were sort of politically engaged on the right I hear the same thing it's like I I didn't know that it was this bad I didn't know that it was that had gone to this extent well when Jordan Peterson first started talking about compelled spe spe and compelled use of pronouns I I remember people thinking like why do you care about this this is like such a small issue with a marginalized group of people like let them have their identity and use the pronouns they want and you know this is like what was it 2015 2016 and I remember his warning and I remember many other people like this is going to spill over like this if you can enforce this on a professor and if you

29:29can enforce compelled speech because Canada doesn't have the same Free Speech law as we do in America yeah and if you can like where does it go how are you compelling it well it means through violence or through police or through the the the fear of being arrested the fear of having your job taken away from you like this is literally what happens when you use laws to compel people like you have to have some sort of a punishment if they don't they don't follow through if they don't follow your orders and this is what he was worrying about and I remember at the time being like I hope he's wrong like I hope it doesn't get that big but now here we are s years later yeah and he was right because there's also a difference between telling people they can't say something which is what Free Speech suppression usually is uh and that's bad

30:17enough but then telling people that they that they have to say something yes compelling them to actually say something putting words in their mouth and telling that you have to say this um and it's not just it's not it's not you know pronouns it's not a small thing because when you when you use the she for a he uh you're not only being forced to say something but you're being forced to affirm and acques to a claim that you don't agree with you're being forced to express a belief that's not yours I mean it's like uh it's not much different from you know a dictatorship forcing someone to profess belief in a religion you know for it's like it's forced conversion basically is what it is um and uh and once you allow that it doesn't matter of course it's going to start somewhere small it's just pronouns it always starts that way but but like I

31:05said it's it's also it's actually not small pronouns are there's a reason why the left makes a big deal out of it so anytime people on the right say well it's not a big deal in response to the left making a big deal about something well they wouldn't be making a big deal about it if it wasn't a big deal the fact that they that they're choosing this hill to defend should tell you that there's something here worth fighting over my kid was going to school with a girl who was a they them she decided she was a they them and she demanded that they talk in they them way like you had to use when you're referring to her as a plural this girl wore makeup dressed like a girl just decided that she was a they them and would get angry if you misgendered her and by not calling her her a plural yeah and what is that what does that mean so we we have enough of a

31:55problem getting someone who identifies as a woman to tell us what a woman is but right what's a they yeah what do you what do you like describe to me the feelings of being a they describe you know can you describe that what is that what is that experience like and uh and anytime you ask someone to do that it immediately descends into into incoherence and also by the way the actual uh gender neutral pronoun for an individual is it it's not they so it's interesting that well nobody wants to be an it because it's dehumanizing right they want to be a a they but yeah you have if you're calling yourself non-binary you have dehumanized yourself because human being exist in a in a sex binary male and female if you're rejecting that you are rejecting your human identity and so you've already dehumanized yourself you you are actually it if it's true that you are

32:38not a male or female then you are an it we don't know what else to call you and then maybe more importantly one one of the things that you're doing when you're doing that is you're giving people especially if you do it to young people you're giving them an opportunity to be special and to get special treatment without any special act they haven't done anything that warrants that youi unque Behavior yeah I I think it's a really important point I think I think that's that's actually so much of this that and people don't notice it but a lot of this is uh is just it's just standard narcissism yes especially you listen to these you know why is this so common among celebrities now all the celebrities have have trans kids and they're coming out as non-binary and whatever else and then you listen to them like Demi levado or whoever and you

33:22listen to them explain why they are they them it's always well I just uh I I just I don't identify with these labels I'm beyond that I'm above that it's like these labels were good enough for billions of humans before you but it's not good enough for you you can't find yourself there but but all these other billions of human beings it was fine they had no problem but you're so special that we need to change the rules of the English language for you specifically it's it's incredibly egotistical it's bizarre it's like if you feel that you're different than everyone else you're still a female you're just a different human being who happens to be a female if you're so unique go prove it with your actions prove it with your work prove it out there in the world but to demand this very special attention and and that's what we give people like if you give

34:15people that thing today they'll tell there's groups of people that will tell you you're amazing you're incredible you're beautiful you're brave it gives them positive affirmation for making these decisions it's also it's also uh part of what you're describing is is person it right I mean so if you're saying I'm a I'm a female but I don't identify with girly things and I don't like the color pink and whatever okay that's your personality and it's fine there are many ways to be a woman there are many ways to be a man there's like almost infinite ways of doing it because each man and woman has their own personality their own perspective of the world and that's fine so I think that what I'm expressing is more the kind of traditional idea is much more uh expansive because it ows you as a man to just you know be be who you are you're

35:04still a man but be who you are the idea now is that if you're well if you're a man but you um you have interests or ideas that fall outside of the standard Norm now you lose your manhood you're actually a woman so they're actually reinforcing the gender binary while while trying to destroy it at the same time which is interesting but I think most of what they're trying to describe is actually just personality and now we have this situation where you know you could have a person who has five different genders six sexual orientations but no personality because their personality has been subsumed by all of these labels they've categorized and labeled and everything and and it's uh it's really strange the uh Art Exhibit recently where the girls threw soup on the van go you know about that story oh yeah yeah yeah the they asked uh someone was interviewing them oh

35:50Patrick B David was interviewing them and asked them can I ask what your pronouns are and she said she was he she they he she and they I go so you're masculine you're feminine and you're plural she's all of them she's everything she's basically like a Hindu god like like what are you this is just laziness at least choose one it's just pompous nonsense it's just in that particular case thinking that you're going to [ __ ] cure climate change by throwing soup on a Priceless painting and then gluing yourself to a wall and also what does it tell you that the person interviewing her knew that she definitely has different pronouns you just you just know it comes with the with the package which tells you again that this is an ideological and political thing it's not an actual identity if you were one of those people that thought that there was a a literal

36:44attack on the foundations of this country to try to destroy it from the youth up what better way to do it than with social media reinforcing all this stuff I mean how many how many Tik Tok videos have you seen like Libs of Tik Tok is a [ __ ] insane account and so many people get so angry at that account she's not creating anything she's curating so she's finding all these videos that absolutely exist and you're angry that someone puts these videos that actually exist of people actually saying insane things about recruiting kids and about you know teaching kids things in class that makes parents upset about gender and and that all your kids are going to be trans and all all these videos that she's posted and people are Furious calling it this hard right you know farri right account of hate mongering account like it's a curated

37:42account they're just she's just finding insane [ __ ] that kids are actually being exposed to in mass and and bringing it to people that may not be aware of it which is journalism that's why I really think livb at Tik Tok is one of the most important journalists in America right one of the only ones because there's not there aren't many journalists out there that are actually doing their job of finding things people don't know about and alerting them to it because that's what you're supposed to do but I think a lot of it is is uh yeah these are things that people post on their own also when she posts um stuff from a you know Children's Hospital saying that these are these are the procedures we perform on kids they just reposting what the hospital said themselves but the point is that it's they don't want us to see it so the

38:26Children's Hospital they've got it on their website and want only the people who have already bought it because if you're going to a Children's Hospital's website to look up gender affirmation care quote unquote then most of the time you've already bought in and so they want you to see that uh Tik Tok they they look at that as like it's all the young Progressive people um and they're okay with them seeing it but they don't want us outside of those bubbles to see these things yeah and the idea is against it is that it's misrepresenting that she's uh unfairly highlighting these radical people that are the not the norm like says who says who these are just all you're doing is looking at real videos like if you look at project Veritas and you catch Twitter employees talking about how they silence conservatives and they have like some

39:13hidden camera the the argument oh they caught those people off camera like how do you [ __ ] know are you talking to them like this is our only window into this yeah like to deny that you get a chance to see a doctor saying we'll we'll get a kid in at 16 it's okay well I thought you only do it at 18 no we'll do 16 like they've said that before like so we will accept miners for surgery yeah yeah that's when we uh it in Nashville we got Vanderbilt Hospital and uh they were doing this this stuff to kids too and um I did my own Libs of Tik Tok routine where I put on Twitter I had this whole thread outlining what what Vanderbilt all the all the services they provide and um and I was accused of the same thing are you taking out of context or this is this is misinformation it's like I I'm this I'm documented this is what they said this is on their website

40:02I have the documents I have the videos and uh they said all that but then the interesting thing is that after the uh after we reported on it and it was this big deal Vanderbilt Hospital after a couple weeks sent a letter to our state legislator saying that they're going to put a pause on gender affirmation surgery for for minors well if you're pausing it I I thought it wasn't happening because if you're pausing it means that it was happening right um because of course it is it is happening especially the the uh another thing that they they do to kind kind of obus skate is they say well genital surgeries are not happening to minors and even that isn't true because that is happening but that is more rare what is much more common are double momies on Miners and that's and that is very common and that's happening in almost every state

40:46in the country at uh at you know exponentially increasing rates and we're we we are you know you're taking the body parts away from girls without them understanding again what they're actually giving up or what the uh what the consequences will be in the future and especially knowing what we know about the human mind and the development of the human mind that you know your frontal lobes not even fully formed till you're in your 20s to make give these people this even to give them the option to change your life forever irrevocably like you're you're going to give them a surgery you're going to allow them to have a surgery or force them to have a surgery or encourage them to have a surgery that's going to change their life forever you don't allow them to do that with anything you can't even get [ __ ] tattooed you can't get

41:33tattooed until you're 18 yeah I mean when I was growing up I I remember the job of adults was always to stop us from doing all the incredibly stupid things we always wanted to do especially as you become a teenager you're hormonal you're uh you know you're impulsive and so the jobs of an adult is to be the guiding force to be a to be you know to provide insight to be a a source of maturity but they've just abdicated that completely I mean I was Dwayne Wade has a quote unquote trans kid the the NBA player and um and now his his ex-wife has come out and said that she that he thinks that she thinks that he has sort is encouraging this in his imposed it on his son and so he can profit off of it which which seems like a fair Theory to me but anyway there was an interview he did where he was on a red carpet somewhere and he was being praised by

42:25the journalist oh you're so great do you have advice for parents out there and he said that yeah your your job as a parent is to sit back and see where your kids want to go and go there with them and I'm thinking I mean I have four kids and if if I adopted that strategy as a parent all of my kids would be dead by the time they're two years old like sit back and see where they want to go and just go with them that's that's that's that's like the opposite of your job as a parent your job as a parent is to be you can listen to what they want but then you are going to you you you have their desires and their opinion and you're filtering it through your own understanding your your much Superior understanding of reality and then you decide what what makes sense for them to to do yeah that's a ridiculous notion that you're just supposed to sit back

43:11and watch you're supposed to have wisdom you're supposed to have a a lifel lived longer and more knowledge more information and you do your very best to help them develop and find their own way through life while protecting them from dangers and from things that they don't understand yet and protecting them from them from themselves yes yes and you know this this notion that this is the one time where we're supposed to abandon all these principles when it comes to gender that's what's so confusing the um there's there's a political push for this that comes from the left and one of the things that I found when I was going over that uh prisoner case uh was that the the whole thing about it where um they made it made it optional it was um I'm me try to find this [ __ ] article I know I saved it but the the the story about it was that it

44:10was uh something that George Soros was involved with the one surprise me yeah let me find her here so that person has a website uh and you can go to the website and it's like justice for demi they call themselves Demi now you know and again this is the person that stabbed stabbed their uh Foster father 27 times at age 16 and then you know afterwards got arrested and said that they were female but that it was a part of a a program that was like a gender self ID that was the uh the program behind it yeah gender self ID policy and uh by George Soros open Society foundations so that they're the ones who push this through in New Jersey yeah so gender self ID is like a policy that they they instituted for prisoners that they had done that in New Jersey just a year before that and so this was just like what are you I'm a boy okay you get to go to the boy pres if you're

45:13a girl if what are you I'm a I'm a girl you get to go to the girls prison if you're a boy like all you have to do is just say it like yeah which is [ __ ] Madness when you're talking about someone who got arrested for fraud has a fake Rolex three criminal Alias he would never lie yeah this is like a literal liar and a murderer and you're like well he wouldn't lie about gender that's it's impossible there's no way someone's scamming the system well they they have no they really have no choice but to Institute policies like this this is the corner they painted themselves into It's like because because if they if they suggest that there's any that you have to offer any proof at all then that is to acknowledge that there's some sort of reality outside of the individual whim you know um even to say that well there has to be a letter from this used to be

46:01the thing you got to get a letter from two Health mental health providers who will affirm that this is true about you well they they don't even want that because then who's to say why does that person get to say he's like only I I'm the only one who gets to determine my own biological identity and uh and you end up with policies like that and not surprising that George Soros is behind it well Oregon is one of the weirder ones because Oregon will allow places to prescribe testosterone to young girls when they're as young as 15 years old without consent from the parents at all yeah there's not another thing that you can get at 15 that's going to change your life like that yeah and that might that might change because they are you know they are uh changing the ideas of of consent that we've all agreed to all we all understand we all understand that

46:52children cannot consent even if they say yes to something not really consenting because they don't understand what they're doing they don't have they have a fully formed brain you know especially taking hormones that that aren't natural to your body at 15 years old and you're and you're you're sterilizing the kid they're not going to be able to have kids in the future and you could say all you want well they we told them that and they were okay with it at 15 they were okay with it I mean you know I I had started having kids when I was 26 if you had asked me when I was 24 I would have said no I don't want I don't want any kids you know because even when I was 24 I couldn't imagine having a kid I couldn't imagine wanting a kid now I have four kids I can't imagine not having kids that's that those are the changes that happen even in your mid 20s

47:31you people go through changes like that so the idea that a 15-year-old can just resign from childbearing and that's supposed to be a meaningful Choice like they know what they're doing it's it's total Madness now have you received offers to debate people that have differing opinions on this oh no defin no no I I would love to i' I've challenged I've put the put the challenge out there I go around to college campuses we're on a college camp campus tour right now screening the film and um everywhere I go of course there's protests and everything but it's a yaf tour and uh young Americas for freedom and and the the policy there is if you're in the room for the lecture we get to the Q&A portion if you disagree you move right to the front of the line and um but no one they'll stand outside with signs and they'll scream and uh one

48:20of the most recent ones I was at they were tearing Pages out of a Bible and eating them so that's so they they'll eat they will eat the Bible uh but they won't come in and and like isn't that in the Bible that might be in the Bible I don't know that the side of the Apocalypse people are eating the Bible it might have a kind of an exorcist like exorcism type of fact I don't know we'll see but what the [ __ ] yeah but they they no they don't they don't want to uh they only want to talk to you if you're a conservative if they think they can roll you like that's these are the conservatives that are allowed to go on CNN and all the rest of it they think that they they they believe that you're going to play the psy but if you make it clear that not going to play that role then they have no interest did you see that John Stewart uh very confrontational

49:03interview that he had with the that woman who was yeah that whole yeah bizarre yeah the whole the whole episode was uh was just was frustrating to watch because it was total nonsense uh he was burning down a whole bunch of straw men with that episode and John Oliver did the same thing yes um and the woman that he was that was the Attorney General of uh I forget Arkansas I think yeah and yeah he he you know is it's not everyone what she is doing to protect kids is is great I mean she's a great American for doing that and she has a lot of political courage but not everyone is equipped to sit in a room with the cameras going and uh you know defend their position in that kind of environment and so she got kind of uh she did get a little bit rolled during that conversation which is unfortunate I would love to sit down and talk to him

49:53but he's not going to talk so be like me well why the that's the point like that would be a real conversation and the way he did it with the men and the way he was talking affirming their health and affirming their gender his whole thing with her was just about the medical consensus and he kept saying well all these all these doctors say that we should be transitioning kids so who are you to say say otherwise the mistake that she made was to play that game and then she said well but there are other doctors who who say that it's not okay and so now you're playing this credentialism game right um to Authority right and and once you do that first of all you're going to lose because it is true true that the medical industry has largely bought into this and so you're going to lose that that contest but what you should be pointing out is that first

50:37of all the people that you're appealing to as authorities are all the people who who are making a lot of money off of this so the only people we should trust about the questions of gender affirmation are the ones who have a financial stake in it that doesn't make any sense to me um and then and then also I don't care who I don't care how many what letters they have next to their name I don't care if they went to Med Med medical school if they're making claims we can assess those claims on their merits we don't have to be credentialed to do that and I and I can say that what these doctors are are saying is just doesn't make any sense but it is bizarre that so many are saying it it is bizarre that so many in the community that we have always assumed is protecting the best interest of personal health and and wellness that these are the people that are saying it

51:27so often well there's the money I think the money part scares the [ __ ] out of me because I don't want to think that that's real I I mean I I want to hold out hope for the better aspects of human nature that you people wouldn't do that and and think of children and being able to diffuse responsibility and say well this is bigger than me and I'm just part of this and this is what we're doing now and yeah you would hope a person individually wouldn't do that but but but people definitely will do that I mean acting as a group you know and when you've got the when you've got the twin pressures of uh well you've got twin incentives of the political ideological incentives and the monetary incentives that's that's very powerful and I think that does explain I mean there there are uh you know there are in like child Endocrinology clinics barely exist

52:18anymore because they've all become transgender they' they've all that's this is what they do now there there are a lot of uh there are a lot of people doctors who got into the medical field and they did a certain thing and then the transgender stuff came along and that's and that's their whole that's what they do same for a lot of plastic surgeons this is this is basically their whole business now is doing the gender surgeries um and so you see the incentive for them I mean they' they've they have staked everything on this they've also staked their professional reputation because that's the other problem not only is it the political incentive and the money but if they admit that they're wrong then they're also admitting that they have horribly disfigured and abused thousands maybe Millions of kids how many people have had this done

53:01depends on what I don't think we have exact numbers but it's if we're talking about the drugs it's I mean Millions um you're talking about hormone blockers yeah millions of kids have been on hormone blockers really uh I'm sure someone's going to fact check me on me but my my my guess is that we're in we're into the millions now at this point yeah that would be my guess um uh I I can say for double myectomy the most re I've read a report recently that um there were over a thousand done between 2016 and 2019 and when you compare that to how many were done between you know 2008 and 2015 it's just it's a massive increase and uh a over a thousand girls at Double gend gender affirming double momies in that in that time frame when you say girls you're talking about pressing right miners uh and that's just up until 2019 and then we know that uh

53:54there's been this exponential increase with all this stuff year-over-year so um it's it's a lot it's too many you know one having this happen to one kid is way too many it's a lot more than one yeah look if you're an adult and you want to do that and you understand who you are and what you are and this is how you feel you should progress you're an adult this is a free country you should be able to do whatever you want but when you're talking about doing that to Children the fact that so many people are on board and so many people are angry if you have like people going to be angry at us that we're having these conversations yeah they will be and and I also I I actually think that uh that that this shouldn't this shouldn't be happening to that's a very small number if that's right it says over the last 5 years there were at least

54:414,780 adolescent who started puberty blockers and had a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis this says it's kind of undercounted but that's that would be a big under Le a thousand people a year yeah yeah I mean I I I would guess you know hundreds of thousands at this but I could be wrong million sounds great yeah I could be wrong yeah um the medium matters will have a fun with that clip yeah Matt Walsh claims it uh but part of the problem though is that we don't it's it's very hard to get numbers on any of this stuff and and who you know who are you going to trust when they're telling you the numbers so that's that's one of the issues with with all this stuff does this have to be reported is there a database where they're looking at like longterm term like results of how this works out in terms of I mean are they studying this now in terms of following these

55:35kids because if we don't have long-term data on what happens when you give young children puberty blockers or double masectomy I mean are there at least following up on these kids so we can have long-term data in the future I think each each Clinic has their own policy I've asked this question of of uh I've asked this question of some of the you know some of the D transitioners who went through this and then trans and what was the followup process like and uh I've heard different I've heard different things but it's not it's not extensive like uh I haven't heard that they're following up five years later just to see how you're doing kind of thing I have I certainly haven't heard that and but the one thing that I always hear is that um is that if they have complications it's very difficult for them to get those complications addressed um because

56:22the doctors that did this to them aren't interested in dealing with it and then there are other doctors too who don't who don't know how to deal with some of this stuff so what kind of complications are they experiencing well it depends on what we're talking about I mean uh you know if we're talking about genital surgeries the complications are just are endless I mean you're trying to create a a false uh U genitals on someone it's just it's it's a it is a in fact one of the we talked to Marcy Bowers who's a sex change surgeon in the film and he said I think he said it's a it's a fan bargain like he even admitted that this stuff he says it's more it's more sophisticated now than it was but there are a lot of complications um and all this stuff is experimental it's it's not like you have centuries of you know data to fall back on here yeah and another

57:11thing that's interesting as I've been paying attention to this is the the experience of the D transitioners when they go public with it the amount of hate they experience and that they get attacked it's like you're you're talking about someone who should be example a cautionary tale of like hey this doesn't always work out well let's look at this and get an accurate if you were looking at this in good faith that you would say look let's look at this and get an accurate assessment yeah of like what's the worst case scenario what what happens to some people but that's not what's happening they're getting attacked I mean it's I've I've paid attention to some of it uh particularly some of these girls that transition to boys then tried to go back to being a girl again it's horrific yeah yeah I mean we had uh we did a rally on this a

58:00couple couple weeks ago in Nashville Against Child mutilation and we had a uh a uh D transitioner named Chloe Cole who came in and spoke she's 18 years old and she got double myectomy when she was I believe 16 um and she's up she spoke at our rally and she's up uh on on the you know at the microphone telling her story and that's all she was doing was trying was she was there to tell her story I wanted her there to tell her story and she's getting screamed at by counter-protesters in the crowd saying f F fascist to an 18 fascist yeah Fu fascist to an 18-year-old girl who is a victim of uh of of you know medical negligence and worse um but this this is the this is the response that they get because you're you're you know they also see it's like you're a traitor to the community or whatever um so they they get what someone like you know they'll

58:49get what I get which is just you're speaking out against this so we hate you but then it's ramped up even more because there's this element of uh perceived betrayal what a bizarre definition of fascism call her a fascist because she's talking about medical malpractice and getting her breast removed and she was 16 years old before she knew what the [ __ ] was going on talking about this horrible experience that she's had and yeah and you decide that that makes you fascist yeah I mean fascism the word is way overused but if it if it if it means anything I would think use using intimidation tactics to stop someone from speaking if fascism means anything these days then that that certainly has to qualify so I would call that fascism you're literally and in this case it was like you're in the crowd trying to drown out her voice by by screaming at her uh

59:36you know I don't I don't use the the fascism label because I think it's silly hin Ed but I would if we're g to call if we're g to call something fascist I would call that a fascist response it's certainly more fascist than her it's um it's bizarre to me that no one is standing up to try to counter your claims and and wanting to go public wanting to have some sort of a public debate because I I would imagine that something that's so ideologically rigid in people's minds that someone would at least have the ego to step up and say I can counter these arguments and I could be the person to publicly shame this person and and and have a debate with them and trounce them yeah with facts and reality and opinions and describe the shared experiences of these people that have gone through this and it's greatly enhanced their lives but no

60:25one's doing that yeah I mean there have been uh right they they might post something on Twitter or they'll they'll say something in their own bubble but to me directly they're not going to do it I mean even even uh just getting media Outlets to review the film I I I thought put this film out I knew it was going to be panned in in corporate media but I I figured was it well no because they just they just ignored it you know they just pretended to exists I mean if you go to Rotten Tomatoes right now I think we have something like I don't know five reviews or something we've got thousands and thousands of uh of audience reviews but we got I think five reviews and none of them are from the from the major um media Outlets either so they're just they're just ignoring it but I don't think they don't they don't want to set they don't they don't want to sit down

61:10in an uncontrolled environment and uh and and talk to you because I think again that they know at some level that what they're saying doesn't make any sense and that and they also know that they know they can't answer the question you know i' I've staked everything on this what is a woman question and if one of them could come along and coherently answer it then that would just that would blow me out of the water I mean that's everything's done then yeah um and they've had all this time to come up with it with an answer and none of them have gone with it so they know they're not going to sit down with me because they know that it's that's going to be a big part of the conversation like if you you got we got to start by you defining your terms and if you can't do that then I don't know how to talk to you if if we can't define the terms well they always

61:46want to dismiss you as some Far Right talking point person that's the the first way they do it and to ignore your film seems to me to you're ignoring an opportunity to take something apart that you disagree with like why would they do that they do that with everything else it's one of one of the more unique things is the the ignorant they feel like things are moving in the right direction it's almost like strategically it would be detrimental to engage with you because they must understand that a lot of these belief systems that they've adhere to they're they're cult-like it's ideological it doesn't make sense it's not it's not grounded in reality it's Al it also there are inherent dangers to doing this to children that are very difficult to ignore and that parents are going to resonate with like instantaneously when they think about

62:38their children and how vulnerable children are and how malleable they are and how susceptible they are to cultural Trends and the fact that they won't engage with you on this it really speaks volumes yeah I mean it does I think they also realize that um and we call it ideological and political I think it's it's it's also it's it's a really a spiritual it's like a religious claim I mean that this is gender ideology is a religion I think um it behaves in every way like a religion and um it's actually interesting it's kind of revealing that one thing you hear from the proponents is this claim that um actually uh there are analogues for transgenderism all across the world in other cultures and throughout history that's what they they always say um we tested this in the film we went outside of the western culture bubble we went all the way to Africa talk to a

63:25traditional tribe there about this stuff and um and they were just they were their minds were blown by in a bad way um they had never encountered ideas like this before because of course these you know the gender binary is not a western construct the rejection of the gender binary is a western construct but uh going back to you know when they point to what are supposed to be analogues or other examples of this kind of thing in other cultures sometimes they're just making it up but then there there are times when when you know there might be a culture that has some notion of like you know uh maybe a man acting out the part of a woman or something like that that happens in other culture crossdressing yeah that exists in other cultures but the difference is number one they don't in those cultures they don't think that the man actually is a woman like they

64:10don't believe in pregnant men in those cultures they know that he's acting out something that's the point and then the other point too is that in in these other cultures with this exists very often it is like a religious spiritual sort of thing they talk about um in fact they they include it now in the algeb Acron acronym is two spirit Spirit which is supposed to be the the the uh Native American version of transgenderism yes um and that was invented in 1990 by gay activist so it's not like this goes all the way back to the you know commanches on the Great Plains but even that it's think about the two spirit it's it's a it's a spiritual it's a it's a that's a religious thing um which is really what they're doing here this is really that's what the two is yeah two s two spirit yeah so in the lbgt A2 Plus 2s that's what it's gu the the AC

64:59has that's what two is it's two spirit two spirit yeah that's a new one how long is that going to get I mean there's there's no limit because they and also because the identities the identities are are becoming redundant you know they they they like like gay and queer yeah uh I mean demisexual is one of the newer ones I think is that in there I don't know if it's in there I it's it's it's a thing demisexual what are they bigots put it in there yeah and but what is you know what Demi I looked it up once demx is um a a person who needs to be emotionally like attached to someone or needs to emotionally connect to someone in order to be sexually attracted to them and you hear that and you're like well that's so that's women that's what a woman that's like every woman um and then there's and then there's also it's just it's it's

65:48ridiculous because I don't remember the label but there's the opposite of that too there're the people that don't need the emotional attachment but they still have you know sexual erotic feelings M I was under the impression that in Native American populations that that two spirit thing was that was a historical thing that they had always had members of their tribe and that they valued that seemed to have the perspective of both a female and a male that they could make sense of things the term to Spirit was coined I believe in 1990 um what they'll claim is that yeah the Cur the term might have been going 1990 but it it speaks of something that existed before right but even if that's true my point is that number one you're talking about you are talking about something spiritual okay which is not what the gender ideologues are claiming here

66:38they're claiming something they're not saying it's spiritual they're saying it's it's physical like a trans woman is a woman like a man who says a woman actually really is one not just spiritually is one but is one that's the difference in the way it's being approached today and it's it's a really significant difference now if we if we want to if they want to ju just admit that they're making a spiritual claim and what they're claiming is that I don't know a man can end up with a woman the soul of a woman or something like that um that would be progress at least because now we're now we are framing this conversation correctly I still think it's an incoherent claim but I mean how can a man have the soul of a woman um sort of by definition a man's if a man has a soul then it's a man's Soul by definition it's like how you define the soul of a man

67:25but yeah I guess that's a tricky one cuz what you know prove a soul right but that's but that's my point if at least if they if they would just admit that this is a a what what we're trying to point to is something some kind of spiritual Essence um then we can have that conversation and I still disagree but you know at least you're admitting that this is that there there's nothing there's nothing physical here what what is the longest conversation you had when you were filming this documentary like what what is the the longest sit down you had with some of these people um somebody on the yeah like probably Marcy Bowers the the uh the sexchange surgeon talked to him who identifies as a her yeah for um I don't remember the exact amount I think it was over an hour she seemed very confident when she was talking about these things yeah uh that most of the people

68:20we talk to on that side were were really closed off and didn't want to open up and say anything that was not the case with with uh Marcy Bowers although an interesting there's an interesting thing that made into the film there where I brought up um uh transabled people which is a real phenomenon people who feel like you know they have two AR someone who has two arms feels like he should have one arm yeah um should we take that self-identity seriously and what I was told by Marcy Bowers is no that's kooky exact words but then the W path which is the world uh which is the the you know supposed to be the preeminent transgender Health Organization in the world they had their conference uh I think it was in Canada a few weeks ago and they had a guy presenting something in the conference saying that um actually this kind of body dysmorphia is

69:08now a valid gender identity a unic you know someone who's a unic who wants to amputate their male genitals and yet does not identify his female just wants to amputate them they identifies that way um that now that's a valid that's a valid gender identity so I was told a few a few months before that that that's kie and then fast forward a few months W path is saying well no that's a valid Cher gender identity that's what's uh interesting about the social contagion aspect of it is that it does seem to spread and change and morph depending on what people accept and what people are willing to agree to and then once people do agree to that that a unic is a valid sexual identity well that that'll become Doctrine yeah yeah and because it makes sense too because if you if what if what we're being told is that uh you cannot disagree with someone's self-identity

70:02then the you know there's no floor there I mean then whatever someone claims about themselves we have to affirm it you know that includes trans species transracial all that kind of stuff you know and that's not even I don't even think of that as slippery slope something like transracialism um that's not further down on the slope that's actually less crazy than transgenderism yeah because all human beings evolve from Africa yeah it is less crazy I mean the reason why there's a diff the differences in the way human beings look and the way we evolve because we spread to different climates in the world and the human body adapted to those climates it's the reason why people are so pale in the place where there's no [ __ ] Sun yeah I mean this is all this is all biology they understand this it's it's more logical to be transracial and race actually is fluid

70:54like you can be multiple races yeah um so that makes but but we kind of we skipped that and we just went right to the transgender thing yeah um and most people that that support transgenderism will say that trans Rachel dozal they'll say well she doesn't count as black so they they kind of skipped over it yeah uh I think eventually we'll sort of circle back and hit all those bases we skipped you think so you think transracialism would be accepted it has to be did you see that uh Tik tocker who identifies as Korean so they got uh done Ali something I think yeah but even yeah again I mean that's it makes it makes more sense to me um to be translated that doesn't make sense but it makes more sense yeah where do you ever sit back I mean you you're probably as deeply invested into this after doing that film as anybody in terms of like the amount of time and

71:50effort that you've put into the subject do you ever sit back and wonder where this goes like if this continues to accelerate cuz cuz it seems like something that's accelerating yeah is it just like a pendulum swing or it's going to go so far one way that people going to reject and it's going to swing back the other way well where does this go yeah I do think about that a lot and I I really don't know um I think I think the stuff with the kids I think what's happening to kids I I I do think there's a building backlash to that and I and I see the damn breaking there um I think people are just rejecting it and um so that's that's an area that's part of the fight that I think we can actually win and and relatively soon I think we are winning it um because people intuitively they see that and um you most people you don't have to explain to them why it's wrong to

72:39transition kids all you have to do is tell them that it's happening and once they're because most people don't know that it's happening and then once they're aware that it's happening they're like oh yeah that's crazy we can't do that no matter where they fall in the political Spectrum have you thought about putting together like a comprehensive group of interviews of D transitioners and making a documentary on that uh I don't know about a documentary but we are we actually are working on something like that right now um talking talking to D transitioners and and uh because that's the Fallout from all this that's the horrible loss is these people that made these decisions when they were kids whether they were urged to or influenced to or whatever and now they're stuck and all of their stories and I've I've talked a bunch of them and and you know there are

73:21other interviews that are out there telling their stor the stories are just are so infuriating and tragic what's happened to these these kids um and now they're stuck it's like the adult version of themselves is stuck in this um prison uh that that was stuck with choices that the child version made but really the child version didn't make those choices because children can't make choices like that the choices that were imposed on them and uh that's the kind of thing that yeah when when people when people hear those stories I think most most Americans no matter where they fall in the spectrum they hear that and they immediately viscerally react a certain way so I think that we could see a backlash because when it comes to gender ideology in general um I think it's a much longer a much longer fight that's a generational battle how much coverage has this gotten

74:12or like how many views do we know how documentary uh not exactly because uh what I what I can say so the daily wire when the the film came out we got uh we we got 300,000 subscribers from the film to people that wanted to watch the film 300,000 subscribers in a couple of weeks prior to that the daily wire over five years had gotten 600,000 subscribers so we we increased it by 50% in just a couple of weeks um in terms of like how many total people have been exposed to the film it's it's hard to tabulate because we've got all the people in Del wire platform and they're all the clips that are circulating all over especially on Tik Tok apparently it's a big thing on Tik Tok I'm not on there but um and then you I wasn't supposed to mention it on air but then also there's like these bootleg copies people have you know which you shouldn't watch

75:03but they're you uploaded to other platforms so it's it's the point is it's just like it's just a presence it's out there and uh Millions I would say million I mean I predicted Millions before and I was wrong so I in this case definitely Millions um and for you when you had a sense of what this problem was before you made the do doumentary is it worse than you thought it was like what is it like what is it like for you as a person as a parent going over this material and investing so much time into it and then having a newfound sense of what this problem really is yeah it was uh filming it was you know uh we would go I can remember we went to California we went to San Francisco we're walking around San Francisco that's where we talked to the sex change surgeon Mark Tano um and uh talking to people on the street and yeah it was it was very emotionally

76:02it just sitting across the the the room with people like this and they're and they're saying all this stuff it's very it's it's emotionally uh draining and but then coming home and seeing my own kids and knowing that all this is like waiting for them out in the world and and they're younger they haven't been exposed to it yet thank god um but it's it's it's there you know there are these forces out there that want to take their innocence take their again their their their knowledge of themselves away from them um and it's uh yeah it does fill you with a lot of trepidation I mean parents especially parents of younger kids are just terrified talk to parents all the time that are terrified of this they're terrified of the day when their daughter comes home and says I'm a boy you know um like has happened to so many other parents they they live in in fear of

76:54it do you take any hope in the resp response to this film because the response has been from the people that I I've SE that I've talked to and obviously it's a bias group has been overwhelmingly concerned that at least you've sort of sounded the alarm and let a lot of people know that that aren't on Tik Tok that aren't paying attention to social media but then some you know parent at a volleyball game pulls them aside and say there's something you should watch yeah I I I do feel encouraged by that I I find some hope in it um and even like I said going to college campuses and yeah there's the protest but also we've got these huge rooms of kids that are coming to they want to watch the movie they want to um so those of us who understand the reality and are proponents of objective biological reality we're not as alone and outnumbered as we as we

77:44think we are I don't think we're outnumbered at all in fact the the problem that we face is that the the institutions are against us so we might have the numbers but we don't have the institutions the medical field you know Academia the school system government you know they're all they're all they they've all been captured so um that that's the big challenge that we face I think I do agree that you're not outnumbered and I think that the numbers overwhelmingly are concerned the numbers of parents and number of people that are rational are overwhelmingly concerned it's just so strange to me that the media especially leftwing media seems overwhelmingly to be in support of this position yeah and because they're all they're all these are they exist in their bubble they're all they're all far-left and um these these bubbles are

78:38very real and Powerful that's the other thing that really jumped out of me making the film is that you go into these areas um I think that's one of the reasons why some of these people were willing to sit down with us to begin with is that they they live in this bubble where nobody would ever challenge these ideas everyone is bought in and they can't even imagine that anybody would disagree um and that's and that's our our media you know they're all Los Angeles California whatever that's Hollywood media um New York right DC so they they they live in these in these Bubbles and they just can't they've insulated themselves from from criticism have you talked to anybody that had one opinion of it and then saw your film and it changed their mind yeah I've I've I've heard that a lot I I haven't I haven't specifically heard from someone who is like farle

79:26purple hair and you know they had a Awakening moment from the film I hope that that happens and and it has happened I haven't heard that but um it's it's more it's more I've heard from a lot of people who didn't believe or weren't willing to accept that this was a big problem and now understand otherwise and then yeah some people who identify more on the left and were sort of okay with it and weren't weren't W weren't very comfortable with it but they were okay with it and they thought that well let's just be polite and go along with it then they see the film and they hear us talking about it and and uh they see that this is not something they can countenance where does this go Matt like go yeah who would have ever thought we'd be go it's it's hard because like I said it's almost it's it seems as though we we've already seen the craziest

80:23manifestation of this so I do think that we move on to you know this this destruction of reality will continue and it will get into other forms of identity and so transracialism even trans species and all that kind of stuff um so I I I think that that will happen um and what I'm worried about is for the for you know my kids generation gen Z like Fast Forward 20 or 30 years what does it look like for them what does that generation look like um how what's the suicide rate um among gen Z and and the the youngest generation in 20 or 30 years after they've all you know so many of them have bought into this and maybe they've gotten the drugs of the surgeries uh and then 20 or 30 years hence what's that I think I think we're looking at a just the suicide rate already is Skyhigh I think we're looking at a historic unfathomable epidemic in

81:21the future do you think that litigation do you think that people suing people for having done this to them when they were younger do you think that in any way would try to write this ship I don't think it writes it but I do think that needs and there needs to be legislation that opens up that possibility because as it stands right now people that are the victims of this they they don't really have any legal recourse they don't um I I don't think so this is what I've heard they've it's essentially they don't one of the reasons is that is that yeah the doctors perform these procedures but the procedures are legal to do and um and it is ethically and morally it's medical malpractice but it's not legally medical malpractice because they're allowed to do this to kids but they're not allowed to do it to minors right are they allowed to do it

82:06to minors well it depends on what we're talking the drugs they're they're certainly allowed to double momies they're allowed to and then um genital surgeries genital surgeries it depends on the state and where you are but uh there there are definitely states where these genital surgeries are happening to minors absolutely they're not as common as the drugs and and the double momies but they they are certainly happening um but so if it's if it's if it's it should shouldn't be legal but it is uh doctor does this to you then what what's your legal recourse down the line you know that's that's the problem that's why the laws need to change to give people that that recourse to protect kids right now but then also to give them legal recourse down the line does when you make a film like this is this like how much does this affect like your daily life I mean obviously

82:53you got engrossed in the subject how much do does this affect your daily life how much does this affect the way you view the world and you know as a parent like looking at the future and hope for the future because it seems like this is just one aspect of a deterioration of our society yeah that's prevalent yeah it yeah it it's uh I don't want to say despairing I I you don't want to be despairing because despairing is you've given up hope and and then what's the point what's the point of even talking about it at that point so I'm not um it uh yeah sometimes I feel close to the to to the you know to the edge of that I suppose um and it has been you it's it's it's on one hand there's I feel like there's not a lot of Hope for the future but then at the same time we put the film out and it gets the kind of response that it does and I do see this

83:49building backlash against at least what's happening to kids so and I think what I mentioned before is kind of it that's the tension is that we we do have the numbers and so there's the Hope in that but the institutions that run the country are so completely captured that to to claim those institutions back that's the generational um project yeah like when you saw Biden get interviewed by that trans Tik Tock star like imagine of all the people he chose to be interviewed by yeah like what bizarre narrative are they trying to push where they promoted the president getting interviewed by this super bizarre Tik Tock star that talks about being a woman for 260 days I've been a woman for 260 days like God bless you yeah and meanwhile Biden doesn't believe any of this stuff I mean he he you know he's 80 years old he lived the first 70 years of

84:46his life and nobody was questioning whether men or men or you know women or women like for the first 70 years of his life men used the men's men's restroom and men were men and women were wom and then I'm supposed to believe that at the age of 70 he he had this Awakening moment and realized that everything he thought he knew about biological sex is wrong I I just I don't I don't believe it I would love if somebody would ask him that it just highlights the mercenary nature of politicians I would love for someone ask him Mr President you you decided relatively recently in your life that women have penises what what made you decide that how did you have this conversion experience like what was your road to Damascus moment when you realize that women have penises that would be a hilarious clip watch him stammer through that yeah I would love for someone to

85:33ask that question but they're not going to ask it and then yeah Dylan mulan's in the White House and and this is this is how it this is how infuriating it must be for to be a woman is that um Dylan mulany is a dude and then decides one day I'm gon to become a man and 45 seconds later he's got corporate sponsorships you know he's got Brands lining up to do commercials with him he's speak at Women's Summits and he's speaking to the president United States in the white house uh and meanwhile there are all these women who are actual women they've been women forever and they're sitting there like well if you want a woman to talk to you like I'm I'm here Dave Chappelle has a great joke about Caitlyn Jenner becoming woman of the year yeah you know have you seen that bit yeah yeah right mem and 15 seconds later right yeah it's well look

86:19at this like this Rachel LaVine thing like this is the first fourstar Admiral that's a woman and they even said female female fourstar Admiral like what you're not even saying woman anymore now you're using biological terms yeah that's the that's the slight of hand trick that they pulled um that not enough people have have noticed but because for so long they said well sex and gender are two different things you know sex is your biological nature and then gender is your um whatever your feeling you perception of yourself but now they recently they've started using the terms inter interchangeably and um yeah Rachel LaVine is is a female so they have after spending decades saying don't conflate sex and gender that's exactly what they're doing now they've made the terms interchangeable which is why we should just get rid of the term gender entirely

87:05we don't need it um all you need is sex male and female gender you know words that comes from language like words have gender you know um people don't we don't need that because we already have sex to describe ourselves I think it's fascinating to the wholesale rejection of this in the Latino Community like especially that term Latin mhm like they're like no like the entire language is formulated on female and male like that that like A's and O's like it's it's been there forever yeah this is white liberals who are trying to colonize they accuse the other you they they're always using the word colonization calling calling us colonizers but this is actual colonization of language of their attempting by going to Spanish people speaking people say you have to completely fundamentally alter your entire language because I don't like it

87:57and I'm not I don't even speak Spanish I don't like it you have to change it of course they're going to reject it but again that's when you get outside of the white liberal Western bubble you don't have to go that far outside of it but once you do you find that these are people who just don't they don't they don't have these uh fundamental you know presuppositions that we have here um so for them it just doesn't make any it doesn't make any sense it's for for us we we' we've grown up with with a lot of these ideas like the idea that sex and gender or two different things like we've all maybe weren't very aware of it but it was just kind of floating you know out there these ideas and we've absorbed them whether we know it or not and so there are claims that the gender ideologues make that don't make any sense but if you but but but at first to

88:40a lot of people it seems like they do it just seems like intuitively it makes sense because they've grown up in this culture where these ideas are out there but you go to cultures where these ideas don't exist at all and you start talking about this it just it reveals the total absurdity of it it's just it's absolute nonsense how did you get involved in being a social commentator like what was your path well you started off in radio yeah I was a just small Market um radio for I don't know eight eight eight years or so um and then uh I just started uh blogging I started a website a Blog and I was just write you know just writing my random thoughts on on anything I managed to gather a a following relatively quickly um and this was back this is back when you know on social media it was it was like the wild west days and you could

89:29you could actually access you build a following you could actually access your whole following and uh and you could basically say whatever you want you weren't going to get kicked off so I was able to build take advantage of that and uh but then once I saw them closing all of that off and you build your Facebook following but you can and you post something and you can only they'll only show it to like 0.1% of your followers or whatever um at that point it became clear that I need to you know to do this independently is is not feasible so I went over and worked for the blaze which is Glenn Beck's outfit uh for a few years and then ended up with the daily wire did you have any inkling of where this was all like initially when you were first on social media everybody sort of assumed that you're going to have these competing ideologies you're

90:11going to have people on the right and people on the left and they're going to have disputes and they're going to mock each other and memes and and it was seem seemingly you know how it was for a while until it seemed like Donald Trump When Donald Trump came along then people realized like hey this is a real problem you know these ideologies can actually promote a president and this guy can get into office we're opposed to him we have to do everything we can to stop this from happening and one of the ways to stop it from happening is to sort of marginalize or silence right-wing voices online but what that does is hardens people to this notion that there is a conspiracy against them and that there is censorship and that there is an an ideology that's overwhelmingly supported by the media that a large percentage of the population is opposed to yeah and

91:05that rational reasonable discourse amongst people with differing ideas is discouraged which is [ __ ] dangerous it's not good for understanding what ideas are good what ideas are invalid and seeing them all argued and fleshed out and having debates has always been the way we can assern and discern what's right and what's not what's correct what what resonates with me what makes sense who makes a more valid logical argument yeah that's one of the more disturbing aspects of controlled tech of tech being censored and one of the reasons why I have great hope in Elon Musk taking over Twitter because I think you know Elon has famously stated that he's a free speech absolutist and he believes that people should be able to have differing opinions speak civil about these different opinions and do it in an open Forum yeah yeah I I think you're right

92:01that Donald Trump was a turning point because that's that was something that from the perspective of the powerful Elites that's just not that's not supposed to happen he's not supposed to become president and that was allowed to happen and use social media largely to to do it bypassing traditional media and just going right to you know to people on to the people essentially and they said well we can't we can't allow this to happen anymore so then they they decided to shut it down I also think that they they realize that you know you can try to control people by telling them what they can and can't do punishing them if they do what they're not supposed to do or you told them they can't do you can control people that way which is what you know of course they do that but then what's a more effective strategy is to control what people believe like if

92:47you can get inside their heads and control what they think then you you don't you don't need all the laws that tell them what not to do because you're you already own them so you can you can control their behavior that way um and that's what a lot of this uh stuff is with let's police misinformation or disinformation um we live in the in the information age like we're all exposed every day to more information than probably the average person 1800 was in a lifetime and uh this is the this is the world we live in so if you can control that control the information control people are exposed to um manipulate what they think and what their beliefs are then you you know that's that's much more powerful than simply like passing laws and telling you what what you can and can't do yeah and that's why I think it's so important to have a neutral platform like Twitter as

93:34opposed to all these other platforms that have emerged that have emerged in respon they've emerged in response to the the censorship of right-wing voices because the problem is those become ideological bubbles for the right yeah and even in those places like I've heard on Truth media if you you know if you say disparaging things about January 6th or say dispar in things about the whether or not the vote was stolen that you'll be censored which is like Jesus Christ like this is absolutely the wrong approach to this now you're going to encourage even more right-wing ideological thought bubble stereotype behavior and you're not going to get the real logical debate which is what what's important yeah because there's a lot of people that you know this idea that there's people on the right and people on the left and that's it that's

94:24nonsense there MO many of these people share very similar ideas and very similar hopes for society and culture and I think far more people are probably in the middle they just they see something that's abor on the left they go I can't support antifa or they see something that's horrible on the right well I can't support these people and they have to find a team that they join and you feel like this team is the good team and they're going to lead the country in the right direction and that team is fascist or racist or whatever it is and if you're connected to that team you have to buy wholesale all the other [ __ ] that's a part of that team the only thing that's going to solve that is open debate and communication where people get to really evolve their own ideas and see these ideas discussed yeah I think yeah I think most

95:16people are are not very ideological in general and um that's one of the mistakes that Democrats have made going into the midterms is they they don't understand that about people and so they made their you know they've made um protecting quote unquote abortion rights one of their fundamental like one of their Central pieces of their of their campaign platform but most people just don't don't care that much about about abortion um it's an it's from from most people perspective it's an ideological issue they don't care that much about it and um the Assumption was oh roie Wade's overturn it's going to mobilize voters to come out for Democrats and it just hasn't because most people see that and they kind of shrug their shoulders and I say that as someone who I do care about abortion I think people should care about it I care about it as a pro- lifer

95:57but I also recognize as a pro lifer especially in the pre you know during the roie Wade days um this was one of the this is one of the uh one of the obstacles that we encountered was just like getting people to even care about this to begin with um and now the left is experiencing the same problem and they you know they it's just because most people what are the issues that they're they they wake up in the morning think about they think about you know can do they have enough money to put gas in the car do they think about their kids they think about their family these are the things they think about they don't up thinking about abortion rights or January 6th or you know anything like that or climate change you know I think most of the people that are concerned about the future they're concerned about the economy and they're concerned about

96:38the environment and that's one of the reasons why you know environmental fear-mongering has taken this front and center stage with the left because they want it to be the thing that people think about the most and that this is you're you're thinking about the future of the world if you vote right you're you're damning our country to uh destruction beyond our imagination the oceans are going to boil and we're all [ __ ] yeah yeah I mean they they think about those things they also think about uh they think about their their kids you know and maybe this doesn't come through in some of the polls that people take and when you poll voters and say what are the issues that you care most about it's economy is always number one and that probably is true um but people don't think of their kids is a political issue um even though the left has turned

97:30it into that but that's why this push to uh you know indoctrinate kids into gender ideology to take away parental rights The Grooming of kids that goes on in the school system the drag queen story all that kind of stuff um that does mobilize voters even if they don't say it in a poll it mobilizes voters because they it's your kid you're going after their kids this is this is what they care about most in the world um yeah I think that mobilizes people too how now from you starting out initially writing this blog and and developing a social media following how have your thoughts and your your view of the world changed well I've probably become more I've probably become more right-wing as as time has gone on um how did you start out well I I always have been I mean I can't say that I was like a liberal who had had an Awakening moment or something

98:30uh it every every year I I see the kind of cultural Decay get get worse and worse and reach into other areas of life um and then I had kids myself and uh and when I see people going after kids trying to take innocence away from kids it just it just uh I guess the phrase is radical I've been I've become more and more radicalized as the years have gone as the years have gone on and the left uh they complain about people being radicalized well it's you're doing it that's that's your fault it's just like with the um the Paul Pelosi thing and the the media was uh hand ringing about all the conspiracy theories and well the cons the so-called conspiracy theories come come that's your fault because people don't trust what you're saying you know they don't trust you right um well you they blamed it immediately on Maga supporters that's the first thing

99:16when it turns out this guy lives in this like weird sort of like household filled with free thinkers and BLM flags and Pride Flags he lived in a bus outside of a hippie commune with the BLM flags and he was previously a nudist uh activist guy but then they say he got into qanon and all this kind of I don't even know if that's true or not but what I do know is like this is just a crazy homeless guy um addicted he's like this like this is a Cra Crazy homeless guy and he's in San Francisco so this is a this is a crazy violent homeless guy in San Francisco this is not you cannot blame Republicans for Crime committed in San Francisco it just doesn't make any sense it's the chickens come home to roost right I mean attacking a politician is supported the very or at least the home of a politician who supported the very

100:06ideas that have enforced that [ __ ] yeah yeah a politician who has supported to to my view the um destruction of Law and Order has has now been forced to confront some of the the consequences of that that's that's that's really the story there do you smoke cigars Matt uh I do yeah you want one sure I'll take [Music] one seems like we need one the um so the beginning of your career when you first started doing this when you were you more moderate were you like how old you seem like you're about you're in your 40s how old are you wow I'm 36 are you well you seem mature 36 is Young so that's uh you you grew up conservative were your F was your family conservative yeah I I uh I grew up uh I have five brothers and sisters I grew up in a Catholic Catholic house still Catholic um and uh yeah I went to public school so I I don't send

101:10my kids to public school largely because I went there myself but uh I went in a kind of a Liberal Liberal area and um you we were we were always encouraged as kids to and the situation isn't wasn't nearly isn't wasn't nearly as bad then as it is now in public schools but was still public school system was very hostile to people with conservative values and so we were encouraged by my parents to stand up for our values we're always told that like if you get in trouble in school because you're standing up for yourself you're not going to be in trouble at home you know if if you're just causing trouble to cause trouble you will be in trouble but if you're um if you hear the the teacher say something that isn't correct or that is um you know um it's like propaganda and you raise your hand and disagree with it then uh that we were encouraged to do that from

101:55a young age so so was it unusual for you to go into like a political commentary was that was that something that was a natural course you yeah it felt it felt like a the right thing to do I also don't I don't have any other skills so I don't know what else I was supposed to do I think that's a lot of pundits it's like we we end up there partly because uh what else are we gonna do with our lives but um did you have any idea though at any point in time like the amount of reach that you would eventually have like when is this beyond your imagination I mean you're very popular online right-wing commentator uh I suppose it was I mean and I think the film it's that's one of the effects of the the the film I've noticed a chang just in my own life just since the film came out how so um well even things like how often I get stopped in public it's not I'm not not not to

102:57Joe Rogan level but um all the time I stop people in public who recognize me from the film and I think some of that is like when you're in the conservative media space it's it's it's important I think that's where I am and uh you have access to a lot of people but um if you if you kind of stay in there that's that's its own bubble so what is a woman was something that was able to to kind of reach outside of that um and so I've I've certainly noticed that and so when you first started doing social commentary like what what were the issues that were concerning you I've always been a life life marriage and family guy that's always what I've what I've cared about the pro-life thing yeah pro-life um marriage and and the gender thing I mean I I you know for at least seven or eight years now I've been on that I've I've been I've been on that you know for

103:51almost as long as I've been doing this on any kind of national level and what was your initial pull to that like what what what Drew you into that to the gender stuff yeah it it it was the it was the Bruce Jenner moment and again it was it wasn't just that it happened and that the media celebrated and all that and woman of the year it wasn't just that it was that I I I noticed it seemed like people on the right conservatives were just were were going along with it were willing to accept it and that's and that's what scared me um and so I've always seen it as the left uh overall project is they wage this assault on life marriage and uh and gender now it's kind of the three-pronged approach I wrote a book uh back in I don't know it's like 2016 called the Unholy Trinity about their three-pronged assault on life marriage and gender redefining both all three of

104:43these things which are fundamental uh pillars of human society and so if you can redefine those and tear those down then you know you you've You've Won you've captured the the culture have you taken a lot of time to think about like what causes people to have these fundamental beliefs and I I mean I'm of the opinion that most people sort of subscribe to a predetermined pattern of thinking and behavior that either they see around them that's reinforced or that resonates with them because their family and their upbringing like what what causes people to be so rigid in their ideologies that they're willing to subscribe wholesale to this idea that children can determine their gender five years old and that a life isn't a life until it's out of the vagina including at 9 months old like have you thought about that a lot yeah I think well a lot

105:42of it is the environment you grew up in and uh you grew up around these ideas and if you went to public school I mean you know kids today especially you go to public school and um you're there for uh six hours a day five days a week nine months a year for for 12 or 13 years and this is and that's the culture there and then the kid leaves and but they they don't actually Escape that culture because now they're on their phone and uh they're just in that cloud all the time and and uh and they're in a in a world where these all these ideas are just assumed you don't even question them um and especially if you can introduce you know kids at a very young age they don't even have the mental capacity to distinguish between f fanty in reality they don't really have the capacity to be truly skeptical about something skepticism is a skill that you

106:30learn as you get older um They Don't Really they don't have that so they'll just accept whatever you tell them there's a reason why if you tell a four-year-old that there's a you know a fat man flying through the sky comes down the chimney they just believe it like they don't even they might have a few questions but the questions are all about the details about this fat guy the questions aren't questioning the the basic premise that you presented to them so if you can get to kids that young um then there's a good chance you'll have them forever U because this is just built into their their minds and this one of the reasons why the left this is why they were so upset about the so-called don't say gay bill in Florida which of course there was no such bill but um and all that bill was saying is don't talk to kids about this before the

107:13before third grade yeah and they treated that like uh some sort of apocalyptic scenario because they need to get to the kids before they want to get to the kids in kindergarten when they're the most vulnerable and you can just tell them anything and they'll believe it and they'll proba and and for a lot of people they just keep believing it most people never stop to analyze the the beliefs that they've always held in their heads like no matter whe wherever you're on the Spectrum that's most people you never stop and really and really scrutinize your own beliefs that you've always had it seems to me that the only thing that stops that is they're confronted by the realities of achieving things in the modern world and that you know just getting responsibility ility working making your way through life those are the things that sort of

108:02turn people into more to having more conservative mindset I I would hope so and that's the assumption that that I've always had I think a lot of us had is you hear about these the you know right the college snowflakes and well once they get out into the real world right now the real world is kind of snowflake ified exactly cuz we we forgot that well they're they're the ones who are going to determine what what what the real world says I mean you know they don't get to determine reality but we're going to we're going to be in a country that they are running that they are reshaping and so um in many cases it hasn't worked out that way they they get out into the real world and but the real world is still set up to um affirm what they believe and you know to insulate them from these harsh realities which is one of the more

108:50bizarre aspects of all this [ __ ] to me is that I don't necessarily see this is why I'm asking asking you where's this go I don't see a clear path to logic and maturity it doesn't seem like people are going to abandon some of these ideas that are not just ridiculous but dangerous and and probably ultimately detrimental for who knows what what number of young people they're going to go down this road I I don't see this clear like there's going to come a point in time in their life where they're going to recognize like w that old expression show me a young man who is not a liberal and I'll show you a man with no heart show you show me an old man who's not conservative and I'll show you a man with no brain yeah something like that isn't it go like that yeah something like I mean and that's but they've also been told that being that

109:40that opposing ideas are are physically dangerous and that uh if you're around opposing ideas it could actually do you harm and I think that they really believe that I mean think about if someone really believes that takes that to heart you know you're you're setting something up I mean Ben Shapiro shows up at this podcast conference and they call his very presence harmful it's not it's we've gone beyond ideas it's like a person who has those ideas and isn't even speaking them his very his presence his Essence is is harmful to you um yeah we read the apology on air yeah it was ridiculous he's literally one of the biggest podcasters in the world and you have a podcast conference so podcast you'd think that uh you'd want him there it's like line up to learn from this guy is one of the most successful podcasters in the world but I

110:25know we don't want him there because he's because his uh and it's like he didn't show up uh ranting a bunch of right-wing things he just was taking pictures with people but his presences it's it's actually it's it's quite terrifying too it's like it's almost a pre genocidal um language that you're using when you start saying that someone's that a certain category of people their presence is harmful um that's that sets us up for some dark potential I think it does it does set us up for dark potential potential now when you first started getting into Political commentary and social commentary the world was a a much contentious I think I think it's a lot of these things have gotten worse but it was I mean you saw the seeds of it even back I mean it wasn't all that long ago 10 years ago um I think it it was it was still it was still there you know uh one

111:22of the difference though was that social media existed and it had already taken over Society but you at least were allowed to you know for for a while social media was a forum for actual discussion it might not have been the most intelligent discussion all the time but you could you could be exposed to both sides of of any debate on social media for a period of time and the very least you could develop a following right you so if your ideas resonated with other people you could attract a group of people to come and pay attention to you or listen to you yeah that that was that was the case for for a while but they you know they they shut that down maybe it'll change now with Elon Musk I don't know yeah I don't think it's going to change with those other platforms not anytime soon unless someone like Peter teal buys YouTube you

112:05know I mean I just don't think it's GNA change and even with Elon Musk I think I think it's great that he took over Twitter but it's also it it it remains to be seen what what effect that's going to have right uh because you also it's not just one guy this is a this is an institution with thousands of people and if the whole institution is still against you even at the top it could be hard we saw that with Donald Trump I mean I mean he he was president but the whole federal government apparatus was against him and so there's not a lot that can be accomplished and what what little you can accomplish can get erased immediately which is what happened to Trump the only thing they couldn't take away was the Supreme Court Justice I mean they'd like to but they couldn't do that yet um and at a smaller scale I think it's the same thing kind of with

112:43Twitter is that yeah so you got a guy who's rational at the top of the food chain there but um he's sitting a top this pyramid of you know leftist radicals so how how much how much change can actually be made I don't know we we'll we'll see well one of the more interesting things about a film like yours coming out onto daily wire is that people would subscribe to the Daily wire and at least potentially be exposed to other ideas that way that if you're if you got to assume that the the sheer numbers of people that watch your documentary some of them have to be liberal and that might at least expose them to other ideas they're getting suppressed from in other places yeah I mean we we we hope so and there certainly have been plenty of people who are not died in the wool right-wing Republicans who've seen the movie and and appreciated it

113:36um which by the way I'm supposed to mention if you go to what isw woman.com we are we we just decided we're going to make the first 15 minutes of it free so um so you can kind of get you know you can go check it out you can see 15 minutes of the film and decide if it's it'll wet your outrage yeah decide decide if it's something you want to you know you want to subscribe to watch hopefully you will though so daily wire as an Enterprise uh started because of the suppression of uh conservative ideas online is that why they decided to have this network uh I don't think it was just that I mean it was originally it started as a basically a conservative kind of news site which is which is political site which there's still a lot of that um but one thing that we talk about the daily wire is wanting to build an actual cultural institution on the right which

114:30doesn't exist right now um you find that all over on the left right they they've got a bunch of them but there really isn't that on on the right uh the only thing that you could that could make a case for itself will be Fox News but um I think even for Fox News The Reach I mean they they reach a lot of people but it's just it's like it's just it's Fox News and it's seen a certain way and so it's its ability to impact the culture I think is somewhat Limited because of that um but with daily wire the desire is to build an in you know an actual culture institution that can reach into all these different areas of culture and really and make an impact that way so with fictional films as well with fictional films I mean you know the daily what is a woman is a it's a documentary it obviously has a point of view um I don't I'm not out

115:17there in the film preaching that point of view but I I as the person behind the film I had a point of view that I wanted to get across um a lot of the other films that the DA wire has made though especially the fictional films there really isn't there isn't like a political point of view it's just it's supposed to Simply Be entertainment without the without the the political stuff which I think is a lot of people miss that back in back when you could find those kinds of of movies which are increasingly hard to find do you have friends that are liberals um I I do not as many as I as I used to have they they kind of drop off as time as time goes on have you had disputes with any of you people that used to be liberal friends they they generally they won't come back around and say anything to me they'll just like I realize I haven't

116:03talked to that guy in a year um you growing up especially like I said I grew up in a liberal area so I had had plenty of friends that were liberal we get into you know where'd you grow up uh Baltimore not the city but outside of Baltimore um and there was you know there was we would have knockdown drag out type arguments and that sort of thing um which was allowed back then not as much now though I guess and so when you did grow up with uh these kind of people did you ever imagine that there'd be this kind of a divide in this country cuz when I was a kid I had you know there was plenty of people that were conservative and liberal even my parents had friends with the conservative my parents are liberal it now you you don't see a lot of reasonable discussion like people seem to have like shored off into their own camps yeah actually think people say

116:54that oh we're headed for a Civil War and and all that and uh I don't think that we are headed for a civil war because our the situation in our country is very different now than it was in 1860 in a lot of ways and one of the in one way is that the The Divide is not as explicitly geographical I mean there is a geographical component to it but you can't just split it down the middle right um everything's mingled together so I I don't know if we have the the we really have the the atmosphere for real Civil War but I do think that our country is probably more more divided now than it was in the Civil War because there's this just this vast Chasm that separates one side from the other there are there are no shared beliefs there are no shared values at all um at least from the two ends of the political Spectrum it's not even a spectrum anymore because there is

117:44this this severing down the middle of it do you think that's by Design uh yeah I I mean I think it's I think it's by design it makes it impossible to have a a ation that's one of the reasons why political debates are so fruitless often is because in order to have a constructive conversation with someone or even a constructive debate you have to have some shared frame of reference that you're both referring back to and if you don't have that then what are you talking about that's one of the reasons why you know um I can sit around in a room with other conservatives and have really passionate debates that feel productive because we agree on the fundamental stuff but now we're just arguing about some of the some of the details some of the things that you build on top of the of the foundation um but when you don't even share the foundation

118:32then there there's nowhere to go you just you reach this this impass like I did and what as a woman we you eventually come back to well what is truth how do we know if there's a truth well once the conversation devolves into that there's like there's nowhere to go from there well when you get away from gender like what are the other gigantic divides you see that are impassible um all the the the big pillar issues life you know the life issue gender marriage um what about specifically about the marriage one well do you believe that marriage you is marriage fundamentally a procreative male and female Union or or not you know there's there's not really much of a of a compromise position there there's not a compromise in gay men that want to be married they're in love and want to formalize their bond so they could see their partner if there's a

119:30medical emergency or if there's a death where you uh you know assign assets to your loved ones well that's not a compromise on the fundamental definition of marriage because that that's that's the question that lies underneath all this well marriage is a legal Union between people who love each other right isn't that what it is and for for what purpose like why why do we need a Union because they wanted to be solidified they want it to be carved in stone they want to say this is not just a person that I love this is my life partner right but why why as a society why do we need to solidify or uh make official a union between people who love each other like if you if you're with someone you love them then then why isn't that up like why why do we what what what purpose does marriage actually serve in societ what what is it doing for society but is it it's not

120:27necessarily for society it's for the individual's Comfort if two people decide to stay together and have children and don't ever get married that's okay too I mean we don't have a law against that so if two people decide that they want to be joined in Union and they want it to be legal they want to really commit I'm I'm committing so hard I'm going to bring lawyers involved and we're going to sign papers and we're going to we're going to go over the terms of this but I don't think it is just personal it is a it is a public it is also a a public institution that's what we're talking about you want the public to recognize yes this um if it was just personal then we wouldn't even be having the conversation because people are you know loving whoever they're loving and it's that's it there's no way to control that and it is what it is but what if any negative

121:17aspects would there be to people doing that if they're gay well the issue is that from my perspective and from the perspective of most human societies that have existed in history is that marriage is the the context in which the the procreative union occurs marriage is the foundation for the family um it is uh it's something that is reserved for that because the male female Union has this capacity to create life whereas no other Union has that capacity and so it's it's a it is a different kind of thing and it makes sense to call it something different it's like if it you know if if if Human Society were to collapse overnight and we all woke up with an Amnesia and didn't remember anything about what happened before and and we're rebuilding Society from scratch and we look around and we see that oh there are some couplings over here that have this weird

122:18habit of creating people and there are other couplings where there are no people being created we would probably call that some different it's a it's a different kind of thing it's also more important to society like Society needs that you're you're you're going to keep Society going because you're creating people um and that's what marriage was it was the it was the context for that procreative Union but what about gay couples who get surrogate parents to car their children or who adopt children that's very common yeah it's it's common but that's not the union itself is not creating the but it's a man-made institution we've decided that we should involve the law into join a male and a female who create a family like why would that be mutually exclusive why would that why would that not apply to a gay couple well again part of it is it's a

123:12it's a matter of definitions so it's it's a little bit like the what is a woman question it's like what is What is marriage I mean I I I but doesn't that seem like an easier one like two people love each other this is my life partner this is the person I want to be with to the day I die Let's Get Married everybody is Happy everybody celebrates why just two people why just two people well I don't know why why only two people with heterosexuals cuz that's not always the case well because only two people can create another person you know um no you can have another person involved and they can have your kid too I mean the Mormons did yeah but only but only two people can actually create two people at a time right right exactly okay um and that yeah that's one of the reasons why I would also you know if we want to call it heterosexual uh polygamy I'm not a

124:03proponent of that because you know when when two people create another person the person the child that they've created now needs and deserves and has a right to um be raised in a in in a stable environment with a with a with a a mom and a dad who were living together in the house that's what we should Endeavor as a society to provide every uh child and children need they need both a child needs a mom and a dad that's that's the way Nature has set it up right um so even this I you know the idea of well two men will raise a baby um so are we saying that the the mom is not we don't the mom is disposable here Expendable we don't need the mom that's not what we're saying we're saying is it okay if two men raise a baby like if a single dad can raise a baby a single dad's not required if the the wife dies he's not required to get married and

124:55provide his son with a stepmother yeah he's not he's not required of course of course we wouldn't we wouldn't require that but so what if that single dad decides after the mother's gone you know what all this time I've actually been gay and uh really I want to marry a man now marries a man still continues to raise the son that's his son well I think you know you can have a single parent households right but in a single parent household and and the child can can be raised by a single parent and the child can turn out can turn out okay and have a great and fulfilling life but it's going to be in it's going to be not because there's only one parents it's in spite of that that's a hurdle you have to get over the child is still being deprived of something that uh is important um so to to consign a child to that to begin with and say well we're we're

125:43going to give you two dads rather than a mom and a dad because the CH the child was was there was a mom involved in creating the child but she's not going to be anywhere in the picture I'm just of the I'm of the view that that's not that the the mom is not Expendable she plays a necessary role that cannot be replaced by a man you know I I cannot be my child's mother my my children have a mother they need her she does something special and unique in our family and if if if they didn't have her it doesn't mean that they're not going to be able to function anymore as human beings but they're going to be deprived of something something important um but even if that is beneficial to have uh a mother involved and a father involved surely having one parent only even though it's not ideal is certainly better than being in foster care it's

126:40certainly better than you know being in a in a home somewhere where there's no parental figure at all and I would think there's a lot of people that are out there that are living a life like that unfortunately there's a lot of kids that are not adopted there's a lot of kids that in foster care wouldn't it be better for those kids to be raised by a gay couple who's married I think every child deserves the best possible situation the best chance that we can give them and uh so I would say that every child we should be looking for a man woman couple and also keep in mind too that uh especially when it comes to babies you know this this changes as the kids get a little bit older but um uh with with babies who are up for adoption there there's a there's actually a line five miles long of uh of married couples that want to adopt babies and they have to

127:31wait they they have to wait they're on waiting list talk to talk to parents that have been through this they wait on waiting lists for years so um this idea that there's a scarcity of manwoman couples willing to adopt kids I just don't I don't I don't think that that's even true to begin with I think it's a little bit of a kind of a misnomer it's foster kids that have the issue right kids that are 10 11 12 yeah that's where it becomes it becomes more of a challenge as as kids get older um most people who are adopting are looking for you know they want a baby so they can raise the child from as close to birth as possible um do you think of gay marriage as a personal freedom issue that you should be able to do that if you were born gay and that's who you are and you meet another person that's gay and you fall in love and decide that you

128:23want to be bonded in a union isn't that a personal freedom issue and shouldn't we encourage personal freedom I think of it as a definitional issue um so what do you think it should be I think of a definitional issue I think of marriage is is a certain thing which is the um the context for uh for procreation for the for the the building of the the nuclear family what about people that get married that don't have kids are you opposed to that what if they get married they decide you know what we don't need kids I'm going to get fixed fixed you get your tubes tied let's travel the world well what do you mean am I opposed to it I mean I I think that uh that every married couple should be open to life but what if they don't want to you oppose to them being married if marriage is only for procreation and to bond a family together what about people that are

129:09deeply in love that never want to have children I I don't think it's it's not only procreation but that is one of the fundamental definitional U uh aspects of it um of course there's more to marriage just than that and what about people that are infertile they fall in love and they realize that they can have babies and they don't really necessarily want to adopt is that okay for them to be married because then you're by definition marriage falls into a completely different thing because then it's a bond of love it's a union of Love sure I mean that doesn't change the nature of of marriage though it's it's a little bit like um I say that uh uh what's the definition of a woman well a woman is someone who by her nature can conceive children in her womb and bear children and then the response is always what about women who are infertile does that

129:58does that destroy your definition of woman and uh it it doesn't because you know it's still it's still a woman's nature to Bear children not every woman will and there will be disease and infertility and and old age and all these things that will preclude that but it's still it's still of her nature to do so um and I would say the same thing for marriage I mean it's it it is natural in a marriage for for procreation to occur it's not always going to happen in reality though but that's still that's still one of the natural functions of marriage and and uh married couples who can't conceive children there are other ways to um be parents like adoption for example if they want to right but if people want to be married and don't want to ever have children are you opposed to them being married well I'm not I'm not I would Advocate a law that would prevent it but

130:45would it change the definition of what their marriage is to you because they don't want to have a family they just want to have a loving Bond I think this would be a couple that is rejecting uh one of the fundamental aspects of marriage and they they should be they they should be open to to life I would hope that in the future they would be but but isn't that just a personal choice I mean you can have a very fulfilling life if you just follow your Pursuits and your dreams and your your interests and you find someone that shares those interests with you and you share time together it's very fulfilling and loving yeah it's a it's a person it's a personal choice and that I'm not advocating for like a law that says you you if you're married you have to have you have to have X number of kids um but then why are you opposed to two gay

131:33people doing that well because because again it's it's it's not about Choice it's about what this institution marriage is an institution and what is it and what purpose does it serve and I I I do not agree with um tearing down or or or changing this definition especially because the people who have changed the definition haven't come up with a new one so they they say well that's not what marriage is so for thousands of years we said marriage is the procreative union and then we had the other side came along and said well it's not that okay well then like what is it exactly and I know you said well it's it's people who love each other two people love each other well but then why two people why do they have to love each other um you know all these kinds of questions you get into what if they they're in the same family what if Brothers and sisters want to

132:23marri and I know every time that comes up you know the the advocates for gay marriage will say well that's a slippery slope argument that's a fallacious but it's actually not it's like we're trying to get to what do you even think this institution is now since you've rejected out what we were saying it was and um I've never found a a compelling definition and any any definition offered it's like it's like well what do what what's even the point that why why do we even need this now I just don't see how a gay marriage in any way damages a straight marriage I don't I don't see it at all it doesn't make any sense to me it just seems to me that people want to be B look if you if you wanted to look at logic especially in our modern society which is pretty [ __ ] when it comes to relationships it's somewhere in the neighborhood at

133:1450% of all marriages Ed divorce anyway they don't make it you know if I don't know if anything would damage marriage and damage the institution of marriage it's the option of divorce I don't think gay people and gay people getting married in any way shape or form changes a bond that you have with your wife it's just called marriage it's a human invented thing if we decide that gay people can get married too I just don't see how it damages anything I don't think it tears down the definition of marriage in any way it just opens up the possibility that people who are gay won't be discriminated against yeah I don't I don't think that a a gay couple existing uh directly impacts you know there's a gay couple and you know wherever and and I'm with my wife in our house like obviously there's not um but I'm talking about I'm not talking about

134:04on the individual level I'm talking about on on the the societal level right I would agree that um divorce especially uh you know uh this no fault divorce rampant divorce I don't think it's as high as 50% I know that that's the that's often quoted I'm not sure where that comes from but um it is high it's like it's too high Chris Rock has a great joke about that he said those are just the people with the courage to get out he like how many cowards stay but it's also it's also true that the advocates for what we call now traditional marriage which I just call marriage but the advocates for traditional marriage put themselves at a disadvantage by allow especially in the churches like allowing this rampant divorce to occur um and then you've you've already sort of given up on some marriage is supposed to be monogamous and uh and permanent as well as

134:54procreative well you've given up monogamy and permanence and so now it's not that's that's two of the three legs gone and so now this assault was waged on the procreative part of it and it was just it was it was difficult to to withstand it because the institution had already been weakened so I agree with you there um but my answer to that is to try to reinforce what marriage is not to just give up on it entirely and I I still think you're left with this question of like if is not what I'm saying it is then what why do we even need it what's the I mean you're saying it's a it's a man-made institution yes but but you're also like the way that you're presenting it it's it's a it's also it's a totally meaningless institution they don't need it at all no it's not meaningless because it means something to the people that get married so it's just it's just a

135:45subjective symbolic thing I mean what yeah so if kind of what it is look there's a massive responsibility when you're married and when you have children to keep your family together and you raise and keep everybody happy and healthy and there's great reward to that yeah but it doesn't always work out it's not it's not a it's people change people are [ __ ] up that doesn't it doesn't always work and so I don't think it should be outlawed because 50% of the people fall apart just like I don't think it has any effect whatsoever on a straight couple if a gay couple decides that they want to make it official and that's what it is to them it it gives them a feeling that that they're accepted and appreciated and that they're not discriminated against because they happen to be homosexual so what what you're articulating to me is the damage that's

136:40done by gay marriage to the institution of marriage but how is it done how is that in any way damage straight people because we are making the institution meaningless but it's not meaningless it's very meaningful the people that have it subjective symbolic and it's about your own personal feelings isn't it though well no I I would say that it's not it's it's well if it's not subjective and it's not symbolic it's it it codifies and protects and uh gives a name to a a thing that actually exists which is which are you know man woman couples creating people creating creating babies um but not always right but that's that's still the that's still the nature of the Union so the percentage of people today that are married that don't have children I bet it's pretty high amongst heterosexuals probably is there something wrong with that I think there is something wrong

137:33with that I think there is something wrong with you know getting married and saying we're just we don't we're not going to have any kids at all but why is there something wrong with that of someone's personal choice why would that why is it wrong that two people are like you know I am deeply committed to work and I don't want to sacrifice any of my career and I don't want to ruin a kid because I'm constantly at the office but that's where I get deep satisfaction and and that's that's what I'm focused on and the woman says that's great because I don't want children either I really am attached to my interest in my career and what I like to do that that's not damaging your relationship with your wife and your family it's I don't certainly I certainly don't think of it as a threat to my marriage or my family yeah it's uh it is a personal choice

138:24right but shouldn't people be allowed to make those personal choices like isn't that a fundamental aspect of what it means to be American to have that freedom well right yeah but right now we're not talking about what people are allowed to do I'm not saying well we're talking about marriage gay marriage okay we we were just discussing straight couples who choose C Cho that's also a personal freedom issue isn't it yeah but and I'm not saying that that straight couples should be legally required to have kids but I you know if you're asking me do I think it's the right choice to just get married and choose not to have kids ever I I I do not think that that's the right choice it might it's their it's their choice but people can make choices that are wrong um and you can disagree how is it wrong if they have a fulfilling and wonderful life

139:05together with that choice if their their thing is that they just want to have a bond between the two of them to just like take it to the next level let everybody know like we are married if I die my money is going to go to Helen and if Helen dies you know I you know I'm going to mourn her because she was my wife and now be a widower like to some people that distinction gives them peace and security and makes them feel better about the relationship that they're both so committed that they've legally signed documents that say that they're Bound by law and under the eyes of God or whatever you believe in yeah they're they're able to make that choice but I think you're re they're still rejecting one of the purposes of marriage and in the scenario that you just outlined you're also deciding to live a really self-centered life you're saying what if

140:00you're not what if your work is very charitable what if it benefits Humanity in a deep way what if you spend a lot of time doing you know Health Care work and you know and social work and you're you're deeply committed to your community it's not selfish at all you're just dedicating your time to something other than raising new human beings you're dedicating life to enhancing other human beings that are around you that's a hypothe it is a hypothetical but so is yours right yeah but I I think most of the people that choose like we're not going to have kids and and the and the the rate of uh those rats are declining um and the age when people first have kids is also going up and and all that most of the people that are making these choices I don't I don't think it's because they're involved in charity work I do think that it is more

140:49the the scenario you outlined in the the first time around which is just like well this is what I'm doing you know I have my job and I don't want to give it up um but don't you think that people should have the freedom to live their life in that way I think human beings vary widely in a huge way and I think there's some human beings that find a very fulfilling life just reading books and traveling and experiencing different things and seeing art and doing whatever the [ __ ] they want to do and they don't necessarily have to have kids to live a fulfilling life that way and if they choose to do that with someone who they have a loving bond with and who they get married to I don't think it's a bad thing that they don't want to have kids well I think I guess we have to we're running into a question of of you know now you get to the real fundamental

141:38question I think it's a fundamental Freedom thing yeah we're not disagreeing I guess on the freedom aspect of it because again I'm not saying that you should be required to have kids well you're imposing your sensibilities and what you think is important in life to other people but everybody has a different idea of what's important life without hurting anyone the thing is like what I'm saying is these people that are that are married that don't have children they're not harming anyone they're not harming these unborn children that they never have they're not harming anyone and it doesn't affect your relationship with your family and your marriage at all yeah but I'm also not I'm not imposing myself on them or harming them by answering a question about about how I feel about their choices right but nor are gay people doing that to you I think

142:27I the harm comes from on a societal level when we start breaking down these basic uh Central institutions like the the institution of of the family and of marriage that's where the harm harm comes from and the more that people believe the more that we build a society where it's believed that marriage is objectively meaningless right it's it's entirely subjective it's just about it's just about making you feel better um the more that we build a society like that I think the that's where the harm comes in the the worse it is and people are going to reject marriage um and uh and that means more you know fewer kids are being born also more kids are being born in a context where they don't have that stable family structure so the harm definitely comes it may not be this immediate you know connect the dots thing but uh and we can already see that

143:17that so you think by adding gay couples to the definition of what a marriage is by defining in that way it's two people that Bond each other somehow another that harms people that have successful marriages that are nuclear family marriages like you enjoy I think it harms when you say add them to the definition you can't really add them to the definition you you can only just get rid of what the definition was well that's your definition though the definition of marriage is just a legal Bond I mean is there what is the definition like if we Google it today I'm sure it's been like politicized yeah right like what like Google marriage what is the definition of marriage today I want that's that's that's an interesting question like how is that Define because you know that most of these places that they they do change them with culture legally or formally

144:07recognize Union of two people as partners in a personal relationship historically in some jurisdictions specifically a union between a man and a woman and in quotes a happy marriage a combination or a mixture of two or more elements okay that's different marriage um yeah recognize Union of two people so like what's the damage that gets done to a straight relationship if we change the definition of marriage and couples by by by making marriage meaningless that that's that's the Dage how does it make it meaningless does it make it meaningless it doesn't change your marriage at all it's just now gay people can get married too like why why is I just I don't see that that even deteriorates the idea I mean we're already seeing this on a societal level I we're seeing that people are rejecting marriage they're saying that um you know you have people

145:03live together and they say well there's no point in getting married it's it's because it's just it's all it is that definition it's just P it's just utterly arbitrary meaningless paperwork that says yep you're in Union and love each other I me why why would you need paperwork to codify the fact that you love each other it's it's like it's a good question well right ex exact my point that's why that's why marriage marriage can't be just that because if it's just that then it's not anything well maybe it is just that and yet it's still rewarding for the people that participate in it because it is sort of silly that you bring in other people to codify your relationship and to like legally bind each other together it is kind of crazy right so so but I feel like in a weird way we're agreeing CU I'm saying that if we expand marriage to include gay couples we have

145:57made marriage into something effectively meaningless and silly and you're I'm saying saying that that's what it is but that's that is that is the harm that I'm that I'm worried about but I don't think gay people getting married changes that I think if gay people didn't get married you'd still have a bunch of people that think that marriage is silly and that marriage is just a legal Bond and it's not necessary and you can have a family without marriage and there's a lot of people that do it you'd have few fewer but the big the bigger point is that as a culture we would not have affirmed and validated that view that marriage is silly and pointless but as but now we have as a country as the Supreme Court validated it so um and and and that's a problem because I I think that marriage is so important to a functioning human civilization which is why there's we

146:44never there's there's never been a civilization without it um and uh so we're we're we're you know this is another one of those experiments that we're trying out and I don't think it's going to work out too well but it's dependent upon people agreeing to stay married that's what it's dependent upon and there's always that escape clause and people pull that shoot all the time I don't think gay people being married has any effect on whether not straight people stay together or whether not straight people get married or whether not straight people appreciate marriage they're staying married because there's a benefit to it it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not gay people are also married I think that affects them in the slightest I don't think my marriage is affected At All by my friend getting divorced I think it has any

147:31effect on me if I decide to stay married and my wife decides to stay married to me that's our own decision and we do it based on our own commitment to being together to having a family to raising a family two other people getting married or not getting married or Elizabeth Taylor getting married 10 times means nothing has no effect on me and it shouldn't yeah when you're looking at it on a real on a on the on the the smallest most individual level um you could say that and at least if there is if there is an effect that's really hard to see but that's why you have to expand the view a little bit have you talked to happy gay couples and about what it means to them to be married because it's significant it means like you think do you think people if they feel like they're is this a religious thing like do you think that people who are gay should practice

148:22homosexuality or do you think that they should try to avoid it because biblically it's frowned upon I am I am a Christian I'm Catholic um so if you want to talk about the biblical aspects of it I can I can do that but what are your own personal feelings about like gay people should they avoid being gay uh you know I I believe in sexual immorality is that's is that the the sexual act um properly ordered belongs within the the marital Bond um which should be reserved for a man and a woman um which also means that it's like sexually Immortal have uh sex before marriage all these things happen I'm aware of that but um um I do believe that it's it's immoral but so that's we we could talk about that part of the conversation um but then there's also the just the the definition side of it which is what we've been talking about up till now um and I can

149:28and I can I can explain as or you know attempt to the the why the definition of marriage is important and I can do that without without uh you know saying well here's the Bible verse and quoting the Bible but obviously there has to be some religious reason why you think it's immoral for people to have gay sex for people to have sex with each other even if they're married cuz like if you think that extramarital relationship are are immoral sexual relations are immoral what about gay people that preserve their virginity until they're married there's people that are just gay they know they're gay they've been gay forever I have friends that are gay and they've always been gay I have friends that are gay that are really damaged because they have to hide it and they're closeted some of them in the entertainment industry some of them that

150:17are like alcoholics because of it and they're all [ __ ] up because they have the secret and they are gay and it's not something that was forced upon them it's not something that was asked of them or something they were manipulated into being they're just gay and if those gay people find other gay people and they fall in love and they decide to get married I don't see how that affects anyone other than someone that's not gay who has this idea that they shouldn't be that way but they're just gay you're not going to fix that and by telling them to ignore that aspect of who they are as a human being and to deny that that's always been a part of human history if you go back through like ancient stories there's been men who've been in love with men it's always been the case I mean you you said before so you're you're saying uh two gay couples

151:14get married doesn't affect your marriage right just like you said that if if your friend get divorce doesn't affect your marriage yeah which is is probably basically true um but the question is when you have when you have this happen happening on a massive societal scale and you have a society that has embraced this and has and has officially sort of embraced the idea that marriage is not permanent so you know any just get divorced for whatever reason marriage is not is not procreative so it doesn't matter man woman just get married um that's that's where the effect comes in and uh yeah as someone who's already been married as an adult you might not feel it as much but it it certainly will you said earlier that it's not going to stop other people from getting married I think it does I think actually is I think it I think it will stop I think it is right now

152:02marriage rates are declining at a historic rate right now I don't think it's a coincidence that that's happened um and this process has been sped up after you know the gay marriage Supreme Court decision and also alongside divorce being rampant I think people are they might not articulate it exactly like this I mean some of them probably would but um people are looking at marriage and they're seeing the way that it's treated now in society and they're saying it's just I don't need it it's just if all it is is a is a piece of paperwork saying I love this person what the hell do I need that for like why do I need you know but isn't that their own personal decision to make like if we believe and value personal freedom the freedom to choose your ideology the freedom to live your life how you like to the freedom to choose your occupation freedom to choose

152:53what education or or discipline you pursue don't shouldn't we encourage the freedom to leave a relationship that's toxic like if someone is married and they're married to someone and they they don't grow together and they grow apart from each other and they resent each other and hate each other why should they stay together just because they they said it I mean isn't isn't that ridiculous to assume that people are not going to change you're talking about people that get married for 10 15 20 years you're not the same person you were 20 years ago I'm not the same person I was 20 years ago if you're lucky you marry someone and you grow together and you you your bond strengthens over time but that doesn't always work that's just part of being a human just because we have this institution that we've developed that we think that oh it should till death do us

153:43part well that's it you said it forever now you're going to be miserable because in the eyes of God you have to be together forever and ever and ever amen that's it yeah ridiculous to me yeah I I don't think that that divorce should be just made illegal across the board I do think it should at least be made um more difficult than it is in certain circumstances like this no fault divorce just anyone you know for any reason don't um and I think that that has contributed to the divorce epidemic uh but isn't an epidemic of people growing and changing and and people they evolve over time they they devolve over time they fall apart people develop gambling habits and Drug addictions and St the idea that marriage is should be encouraged to be for life no matter what it seems crazy I think it's it it's an epidemic you could phrase it that way I think it's an

154:38epidemic of people uh first of all no yeah I wouldn't phrase it that way that it's an epidemic of people growing you know I don't think that divorce is a growing apart yeah but I don't think divorce is a product of personal growth I think very often it's sort of the opposite of that but sometimes it is though sometimes one person personally grows and the other person falls apart and you don't want to be bonded to them anymore yeah but it's it's an epidemic of of people not taking the marriage vows seriously of of the marriage vows not really meaning anything because most people still when they when they get married even if they're not religious you know most people still stand on an altar and death due part and they say all that um and but then so then and now we're saying well that's it those are just words it doesn't actually mean

155:22anything it's like does that mean something or not I mean well it does mean something but it means something at the time and people do change and like I think you're coming at it from a perspective of a healthy user bias you're in a good relationship you're in a good marriage you're happy some people are not you know some people in a marriage with someone who's abusive or someone is stealing from them or you know there's a lot of reasons to get divorced yeah uh but it's also not like a happy marriage is not something that you just uh fall into like a puddle I mean it's true but a happy relationship kind of develops in that way where the relationship is healthy and it's happy and you say you know what I can do this with for the rest of my life the other person says I can too it takes it takes two to tango so um and marriage is

156:07something that you work on every day and you know loving your spouse is a not an emotional it's not just emotions it's not a feeling that you have about them it's a choice that you make love is a is a is a choice of you know to sacrifice and yeah live in service to this other person um if both if both members of the couple do that then the marriage will the marriage will stay intact and my position is that that can be the case with gay people but if but if you if and and if if one member of the of the couple is just unwilling to and and is just gone then there's only so much you can do to fight for it so that's all that's all the case but you know what you're articulating is like well the marriage vows don't actually mean anything at all they mean something clearly because you have to get out of them like if you want to get

156:55out of them you have to go to court they they clearly mean something in our society in our culture they mean something financially they mean something legally they mean something emotionally they mean something in terms of the definition of are you single or are you married are you a mister are you a Miz it mean something yeah but you said at the time but it's something that we've created we've invented this thing and we've ascribed meaning to it but the reality is I mean as much as we'd like to idealize about it the divorce rate is extremely high even if it was 30% that's pretty crazy yeah I mean I I would say we've invented marriage in the same way that we've invented the family which is that no there's always been a family there's always been people raising children and in fact in tribal situations in the past it was like a whole village would raise

157:46your kids we'd all raise children together they would grow together that that's my point I I don't think of marriage traditional marriage quote unquote as something that was invented per se I think of it as something that exists you know men women man and woman creating a baby living together like this is exist it exists and and we and we we gave a name to it well couples exist but the idea of a legal Bond and marriage most certainly is invented yeah the paperwork and all that there's the there is the um the you know and if that's not important then marriage could be just something you say to each other like the whole idea is that you're bringing it to court and there's legal reasons for that you get better Insurance you get the to to see your spouse when they're in the hospital there's all sorts of benefits to people being legally bound together there's tax

158:43benefits there's a lot of benefits to that and why should why should we give those benefits to someone to a couple just because they love each other well why should we give them to a couple that doesn't want to have children that are married well we can we can give it to a couple that by you know a couple that by its nature can create children what if they can't should we exclude it from people that are infertile well but again this is it's still they still are partaking in the the the nature of marriage okay still and gay people aren't if two gay people decide that they want to adopt children and they get bound together legally like isn't that the same thing let me just ask you this what would you say that there is an important difference between a a couple that can create a child a couple who's you know in the marital act it can have it can

159:38create a person m versus a couple that that fundamentally could never create a person well that's the same thing as infertile people or people that have had their tied well fundamentally once you have that operation you are in fertile if once a woman has a hcto once a man you know gets fixed you're infertile so I'm not talking about an individual I mean the the type of relationship or the type of coupling that by its nature can create people versus the type of coupling that by its nature never can I mean is there a difference between these two well I think we even describe that difference differently we call one of them gay marriage I mean we we literally that's your that's your position what I'm saying is is it but that's isn't that society's position in a lot of ways like what what percentage of our culture we don't call it gay marriage we just

160:30call now we just call it marriage yeah but I mean that's how it's referred to is like we have to protect the rights for gay people to get married we have to protect the rights for gay marriage right but what but would you say so you you are saying that there is a a difference between these two types of couples well there's a difference between the human beings clearly there's a difference between gay people and straight people straight people can procreate through the act of sexual intercourse and gay people can't yeah but I don't think that's everything that a marriage is but I think a marriage is a bond between people that love each other with all the aforementioned benefits tax benefits insurance benefits the benefit to see each other when the loved one's sick it's not everything that marriage is but it but you are you are agreeing that

161:15it's a difference yes and it's an important difference because the ability to create people is is a significant distinction but my position is that that shouldn't be the only reason why people are allowed to get married and my position also is that it seems that people are inherently gay there are people out there that are just gay do you think that those people that are just gay should not engage in in gay activities they should engage in gay sex and gay love yeah I'm a I'm a Christian so I I believe in Christian sexual morality which is that the sex belongs with in the bonds of a marriage and marriage between a man and a woman so so you're you're opposed to all sex outside of marriage morally yes but yes morally do you think that should be legal let should should it be illegal to have sex outside of marriage should that be a legal distinction that sex is only

162:12legal while married no I would not support a law that uh that bans sex aside of marriage it be I mean for one thing it' be impossible to enforce um you know I don't know if I if I was like a dictator of the universe uh we and I could control everything we could talk about it but no obviously you couldn't have a you couldn't have a law like that but even then it goes against human nature do but but but with with the marriage with the marriage discussion we're not really talking about a law it's it's not that before it was illegal for for men to get married it was that marriage just precluded to men partaking in it by definition but wasn't it illegal it wasn't legal for men to marry each other for a long time or women to marry each other that's the whole reason why they wanted equal marriage rights yeah but it wasn't like you have a law in the books

163:04that says men can't do this it's the law says this is what this thing is and that's it that's this is what it is and uh and if you are able to partake in it then you can well there were legal restrictions that prevented them from doing it because one of them wasn't a woman right right right so it's kind of a law preventing it yeah but I I would say it's the same distinction as uh you know a man wants to use the women's restroom um is it you know is he being prevented by law from from doing it well it's just like we shouldn't it's you're not a woman you're just not that and so that's why it's not like there's a it's not like there's a law targeting you individually the law if the law prevents you from going into the women's restroom it's not like this law is specifically targeting you uh it's just that you're not that and the law is protecting the

163:56privacy of the women in the in the restum if you had a conversation with a gay man and you were going to tell them what you thought morally was correct to do would you tell them to not be gay uh it certainly wouldn't be as simple as that I don't think you just walk up to someone tell them what would options I mean it there's if you're if you have that uh that com uh proclivity uh it's you know it's not as simple as just someone to say to you don't don't be that anymore right so what would you tell them to do just just like you know if you want to stop premarital sex it's not as simple to just say don't do it you know um and uh it's it's to actually live according to the sexual morality doctrines of the Christian faith for example is really difficult but but at least with premarital sex they have the hope and the option to one day get

164:58married and engage in natural sex that they're attracted to what would you have gay people do that's it's it's a it's a difficult Road that's for sure but so they should do nothing they should have no sex ever what if you have gay people that are also that they meet other gay people they love each other they want to have sex they should avoid that because of what CU it's written somewhere because at one point in time someone believes that God told them that they shouldn't have sex with other men well we're having a this is now we're in the realm of a moral conversation and and that's that's my moral view that uh sex also has you know we we should be open to life uh sex has a procreative element again doesn't mean every time you have sex and create a baby um but that's a that's an element of it that we should be we should be open to and and that's the like Pro

165:57that's sex when it is properly ordered what do you think is the cause of homosexuality then because it's always existed yeah I it's always existed even with healthy people with healthy balanced happy people that are in love with other healthy balanced happy people that happen to be gay yeah uh it's I think it's a multifaceted question question um I I don't know if we could point to one quote unquote cause um so I'm not I'm not exactly sure I think that there is a there is a there is a societal element to it um especially in the in the formative years you know of a of a child um we are we are seeing the LGBT identification we talk about trans but not just there I mean LGBT identification across the board is is uh increasing exponentially so that that indic to me that there's some sort of environmental societal sort of element to it right but there's always been a

166:56certain percentage of the population that's gay so what would those people do what would you have them do this is where like the rubber meets the road when it comes to like Christian ideology and enforcing or encouraging th those belief systems on other people that don't agree with them we're not talking we're not talking about enforcing well okay encouraging or even discussing in a way that you disagree with it like why would you care that's what I don't understand if if you want to live the Christian lifestyle and you want to be uh uh an obedient Christian then you know sex is is happens within the confines of the marriage and marriage between a man and woman and uh but do you think that that comes from God or do you think that comes from men do you think that that's human beings that have developed these ideologies that they would like

167:50people to follow these Behavior patterns that they'd like people to follow or do you think it really comes from God and if it really does come from God why would God make people gay in the first place well of course I would say it comes from God if I didn't believe that then I wouldn't be Christian why would God make people gay if he didn't want them to engage in gay sex all all people have uh proclivities or um towards different sins different things that we would call sins but if that's like their fundamental attractiveness they're they're attracted fundamentally to other men like or other women like why it seems like something that God gave them like why would God give you an attractiveness or why would you be attracted to the same sex if that was morally reprehensible if that was against God's will why would he instill

168:51that lust and that desire and that that feeling of being attracted and feeling of being in love with someone of the same sex I don't think instilled is not the word that I would use I don't think God instills it um I think that uh you know one of the one of the again we get you want to get into Christian doctrine I mean one of the one of the uh one of the basic elements of Christian doctrine is that we're a fallen species and uh and so there there there's there are many things that come out of our kind of fall in human nature um and we all have like I said we all have proclivities towards sin and no one's going to live a perfect life you know um to live the to live a moral Christian life is really difficult requires a lot of sacrifice no matter who you are um and and that's it I mean it's it's have you wrestled with these thoughts

169:45before have you had these kind of conversations and really like sure absolutely tried to figure out why why why would God create gay people do you think that God has created gay people or do you think they have a choice God has created all people so every person that's gay was created by God of course um where exactly does that uh proclivity come from like I said I I I don't know gay I have issues with that that that are go beyond theology because now you're talking about you know if you're born with a sexual with any sexual proclivity then that means that we're talking about like gay infants and so on and um but do don't you think people are born straight that some people are born straight were you born straight it's just it's an odd way of talking about it like to say that to say that a a baby is heterosexual I think babies

170:42don't don't have a sexuality in that in that sense that's something eventually they will develop a sexuality and a small percentage of them will be homosexual and that's always been that's been documented it's natural yeah it's even natural in some animals yeah well I mean we started by talking about uh laws and what laws are put in place now we're talking about Christian teaching um but don't you think that Christianity has a I I don't deny that Christianity has a challenging sexual um moral code and but we're also I'm not suggesting that um that that the the Christian sexual morality should be codified into law um but isn't that what's happening if that's how we define marriage because marriage is Law and if marriage shouldn't involve gay people then you are saying that it's because of Christian fundamentalist ideology no because I think you can you

171:51can talk about the marriage issue um without even getting into biblical morality which is what I was doing I mean you you brought up the Bible I didn't I didn't in brought about we we talked about Christianity particular right but that's that's my point is like you you you're you introduced that to the conversation yes um which because I wanted to find the reason why you opposed gay people being married and I think I gave the reason which is that marriage serves a certain purpose for society it is a certain thing definitionally and it is as you even agreed the the union between a man and a woman in principle is different from the union between a man a man or woman a woman and that difference comes down to its capacity it's procreative capacity or lack thereof so we're in agreement that there's a difference there I would say that it's an important distinction

172:47um and so it it makes sense for society to have a certain name for this procreative Union but should we have a different name for people that have zero desire to procreate but are married no I mean no then why should we have a different name for gay people that are in love that want to because because the union between a a man and a woman even if they choose not to have kids it is still a it is still a a fundamentally procreative Union apart from choices they make or if someone has you know a condition where they're not able to conceive um even in those cases I think we're still called you know we're still you're still called to a kind of Parental service maybe in a but maybe in a different form like you mentioned before uh Char charity work or something like that um people that can't have kids you know that's uh that's that could be

173:49a form of of paternal or maternal service um I I think that most people are called to to have kids and raise families that way but not not everybody and there there are but I think everyone is is called to a life of paternal and maternal service um maybe the because the the other option is is a life that centers around you know the individual around yourself and I I don't think that's a path to happiness or fulfillment for anybody in the long run and I think I think uh you know I think someone someone is on their deathbed and they're they're dying and you like uh you ask them what their regrets are there's not very many people that on their deathbed are going to tell you they regret that they had kids or that they gave their life to their kids a lot of people as they get older say they regret not having them um that's sure you don't believe it should be a

174:42requirement right no not not not not a legal requirement of course not because it's also even a moral requirement you think it's it should be a moral requirement with people well what do you mean should be a moral crime well you you should think of it that way like you have a Moral Moral obligation to procreate I think you have a moral obligation in your marriage to to to keep your marriage open to its capacity for for life um but I don't think that the the I wouldn't put the state in charge of enforcing that clearly but we do involve the state in our Rel relationships which is very strange that's what I think when people make this sort of logical assessment of what a marriage really is that's when they start thinking it's silly because you're involving people that really don't give a [ __ ] about you and you become a part

175:34of a machine it's a a financial machine there's a lot of money involved in marriages and divorce yeah there there are even conservatives now who will say uh well just get just get govern out marriage completely just you know just the whole thing just get get it out and um I understand that that view especially at this point just saying you know it's it's caused more problems than it's worth and all that kind of stuff but I don't I don't agree with it because I think that um there was just a there was a reason why the government recognized marriage in the past be because it it has this this really significant consequential capacity um and Society has a has a like a vested interest in your marriage if it has the potential to be creative um because you're you're creating people you know and the rest of us are going to have to deal with those

176:27people that you create so so you know I I think ideally that's what I would still like to see I I still think that society and the government should recognize that but um so what do you marriage I think we should it's not going to happen but uh if it were up to me I would go back to what it was was six seven years ago you know um where marriage is definitionally this this one thing and and that's it and uh as you say people what should they be allowed to do civil unions well it's not about allowed I mean if if but that is kind of what it's about if we're talking about laws if we're talking about definitions we're talking about how Society accepts and like whether or not you get the insurance benefits and the tax benefits of a heterosexual couple whether you can visit your spouse when they're in the hospital those are significant things for gay couples yeah uh

177:32I but again I wouldn't say that it's that you know it's well we're not allowing gay people to get married it's it's that marriage is this this is what it is this is what it's for and and that's it that's what that's the that's the definition of it um and there should be no similar for gay people well if you are are with someone and and you you love them I mean there's you know like you've been saying this whole time uh it's it seems almost silly that you need to have paperwor to to affirm that like there was there was no no one was ever suggesting a law that would say you're not you're only allowed to love people in marriage you know if you're not if you're not married you're not allowed to love people no one's suggesting that um I just don't with this this this this current idea of marriage I I don't even see the point of it if that's all it is if if all I I

178:30still go back to why would you even need I know why I know the purpose of marriage and why Society had an interest in it if it's fundamentally procreative but if it's not and we're just getting rid of that then and all it is is paperwork to say I love someone and not even permanently because I might not love them tomorrow you know it's just it's like you turn it turned into sort of a charade which is what which is what many people think marriage is essentially and uh and that's kind of what I'm that's what I'm worried about you know because one way or another uh we we I don't know you fast forward 20 or 30 years and marriage rates have continued their Decline and maybe 30 years from now there's like almost no marriage at all what does society look like I don't know exactly but I don't think it looks better I I don't see that

179:17as an improvement and you think somehow or another that allowing gay people to get married contributes to that decline I think it contributes to the idea that marriage is essentially meaningless and so yeah but it's meaningful to those people right but it has no it has no objective or or real significant meaning outside of like other than the ones we discussed about insurance taxes and being able to visit your spouse and affirming your love together in what you feel like is a permanent way you're making a bond you're making a PCT with this other person that you love Yeah it it uh affirms how someone feels in the moment it makes them feel good but but but as you said it might not tomorrow right but what bothers people is that religious ideology will be imposed upon them in that sense and that the only reason why people would oppose

180:14it in a different way than they were opposing heterosexual people that have no intention of having children is because because they have an opposition to homosexuality based on religious beliefs which they feel like should be excluded and I feel like should be excluded from law yeah but I don't I don't think that the question the definition of marriage is a question of religious ideology um the the question of of Christian sexual morality and and what is you know that sort of thing that that is a religious question yeah U definition of marriage isn't I don't think it's not it's not merely that not only that anyway and one of the ways that I know that is that marriage has existed as an institution in societies all across the country and throughout history um and uh regardless of what religion was predominant in those societies so

181:06um you know I I don't I don't think Christians like just invented this idea that marriage is between a man and a woman um because if they did then you wouldn't find it anywhere else have other cultures embraced gay marriage in um certainly today it's it's gaining wi improv is that something in the past that people embraced while they embraced heterosexual marriages is it a cultural thing I don't think so I mean I I'm not aware of any historical precedent um going back in history to a culture that would affirm you know two men as being married in the in the same sense that a man and woman are married I'm not I'm not aware of that existing in history I don't think that it did uh certainly was not common if it did when uh roie Wade was overturned that was the next thing that people were worried about they were worried about gay marriage being

182:01overturned yeah I I don't I don't think that's going to happen uh there's no political will for it um everything that I'm saying here you know you don't you don't see a republican politicians out on the campaign Trail saying it so no I I it's it's not going to happen um then again I I didn't think roie Wade was going to be overturned and it was but this is a different sort of thing and um I don't see that on the on the on the horizon I think this conversation that we're having one of the more important things of being able to have conversations like this is that people that do have different perspectives can have a a civil conversation on why they believe what they believe and this is so sadly uncommon in our and our culture and there's going to be people out there that agree with you that are listening to this that are like I am on Matt

182:55Walsh's side and there's going to be people that see my point but that's part of being a person part of being a human being that exists in 2022 is there's a lot of different ways to live your life and a lot of different ways to see the world and whether or not you got you and I ever come to an agreement about this it's not really that important well what's important is you get a chance to discuss it and that is what scares the [ __ ] out of me about our culture today that these kind of conversations are not encouraged they're discouraged and that someone would say oh you're platforming a bigot to have this conversation you're putting those ideas out there I I I think that's what one of the things that's led us into this [ __ ] mess we're in right now one of the reasons that we can have a civil conversation is that we we still even though we

183:47differ widely on really important issues there's still some there's like there's a commonality we started the conversation talking about gender there's a so we can agree there's basic biological reality uh you know we have a lot in common we're both married we both have children right um so there's there's those the commonality there too that I think makes a conversation possible we both agree in civil discourse and be able to express yourself articulately and express your thoughts allowing that person to express their thoughts yeah and but then one of the problems is if I'm sitting across the table from someone who doesn't even believe any of those things yeah um then we might be able to refrain from sh shouting at each other but to to have any kind of productive conversation at all is like really impossible because there's there's just no shared framework

184:42at all maybe but at least people like in the movie in what is a woman you at least let those people explain themselves and you made it clear where you stand and people get a chance to assess these ideas at their for their merits by themselves which is that's what I think is important about a documentary like yours not just exposing this these horrific practices of doing these things to Children before they can even have any idea what the [ __ ] the consequences are but also that you let people know that the the ideological bubble that you're living in is not the only way to see the world and there's a lot of people out there that disagree and they have opinions and a lot of them are very intelligent as well and we should hear them yeah and if you're if you're confident in your own viewpoints then you shouldn't be threatened by allowing

185:40people to to to speak you know I think there's a lot of people they're they're just not they're not really all that confident in what they believe and so they're afraid to let other people speak um maybe because at some level too they're afraid that they'll be that they'll be if not exposed intellectually maybe they're even afras that they'll be convinced they don't want to be convinced maybe I think they just don't want to lose I think people a lot of times they are they equate their ideas and their positions on things to them as a human to them as as an entity and anything that opposes things that they've agreed to or believe in or or ascribed they they think of that as been assault on their very being yeah they do stupid way to think assault on their being and and uh and and somehow a danger to them even even physically even violence those ideas are

186:36violence and they cause harm to people yeah and if if you if you're defining yourself too by your own you know we put people's self-perception above above everything you know we have to affirm someone's self-perception and uh no matter what well then if someone says something that makes a person question their their own self-perception um now it's almost like it's an act of murder you're you're you're killing their self-perception and they they they can respond to it that way yeah like it is an actual it's actual act of violence that's why they say misgendering is a a violent act how how could that possibly be justified well it's a violent act because it's a is it's an assault on not them physically but on what they consider more important which is their idea of themselves right which is is why silencing people is what they're trying

187:22to like yelling at that person who's a transition or D transitioner calling them a fascist like that you can just minimize everything that they stand for instantaneously with one word or with one phrase yeah yeah well listen Matt I enjoyed talking to you um we disagree about a lot but I get your perspective and uh I think your movie is very important it it is eye openening I think um a lot of parents should watch it a lot of people that uh that are in that liberal ideological bubble I would encourage them to watch it and see what they're up against because I don't think it's everything they think that is that it is I don't think it's what you're getting described To You by John Stewart and John Oliver and any of these left-wing Talking Heads that are on these media platforms that seem universally to be accepting these ideas wholesale and uh I'm glad you made it

188:18yeah I I appreciate it again thanks for uh talking about the film and and I I hope people just give it uh give it a chance don't make they'll make an assumption about what you think the movie is just uh just just watch it and see if it speaks to you go bootleg it it's available everywhere it's on YouTube no go to dailywire.com um is is there a doc a website specifically for the documentary yeah what isw woman.com okay all right thanks Matt thanks thank you all right bye everybody [Music] [Applause]